I'm sure they want to complete the season some way & somehow but I don't get a good feeling about this.

if you like what the writers produce, then how can you fail to be sympathetic for their demands? if, on the other hand, you don't like what the writers produce, then one assumes you should be happy to forgo the entertainment that they provide, right?

bitching about the writers going on strike makes no sense, unless perahps your own livelihood (or that of a friend or family member) depends on that of the industry. but if you're just an ordinary tv viewer, why wouldn't you want to support the reasonable demands of the folk who make it entertaining for you? they're the ones losing money, not you, you douche.

Irony much?

Except that you still need to learn how to be in any way clever or witty. Or even mildly entertaining.

At all.

As for "illogical" hatred of unions, I think it's a product of experience. Most of us spend 13 years of our lives dealing with one of the worst and most selfish unions on the face of the Earth: the Teacher's Union. Not to mention all of the positive experiences we have with those cheerful union members down at the DMV. At the end of the day we only really hear about unions when they're causing an inconvenience in our lives. Unions are great when they're improving working conditions for steel workers and coal miners. They're not so great when you have suits fighting other suits over pennies per DVD sale.

When a union scores a haymaker punch to the face of management, the only winners are the union executives - Joe Union Member loses his job to an overseas plant, and thinks that management took his job away because its mean and nasty and satanic. If L Ron Hubbard were still alive today, he'd say forget all this religion crap - the real money these days is creating your own union.

either that or they're using it because they heard someone else use it and thought it made them sound eloquent. Its just a clever PC way to say "Zionists"

Actually, where I am without them is happily catching up on my huge backlog of books, graphic novels, DVD season sets, and other sources of media entertainment. If the strike does drag on until the spring, expect the masses to just rub their eyes and step out into the sun, just like that old episode of THE SIMPSONS after "Itchy and Scratchy" is taken away from the kids of Springfield. Who knew that episode was so prophetic?

..I really do. They deserve more of the pie. However, this is the way of the world. The top brass get the money while those lower on the scale do the work. Writers are probably paid a lot more than most of the pecking order already.

Think of the rest of the staff. You are not just hurting the exec's wallets, there are many out of work who cannot afford it as much as you can! We also need more Lost, Heroes and 24 so will someone please give in?

strikes wouldn't be very effective if they caused minimal disruption, would they? the idea is to hurt the studios as much as possible. does it affect others? yes, of course it does. but that's hardly the writers fault. it's like blaming somebody on a hunger strike for the cook losing his job.

The union members have no control over whether a CEO continually pushes on obsolete product. Back in the late seventies and into the eighties American companies kept on pushing bigger and bigger cars because they thought that was what Americans wanted. However, the Japanese automakers went the opposite direction and marketed smaller cars, giving the a foothold onto the American market. Once again, American automakers are pushing SUVs while Japanese automakers are pushing hybrid vehicles. History is repeating itself, and it's not the fault of the union member putting the car together, it's the fault of the shortsighted CEOs.

So, that's my spiel about unions. We probably won't agree but thanks for at least giving me an argument instead of a bunch of invectives.

If the WGA members felt the AMPTP was serious about negotiating a contract they very well may have voted to postpone the strike as a goodwill gesture. However, the AMPTP's stance seems to be in favour of a prolonged strike in order to break the union, or severly weaken it, and allow them the legal opportunity to cancel long-standing production deals (which they themselves negotiated but now want out of). To continue to work for someone so unwilling to come to a compromise with you would be ridiculous.

Of course, the WGA now seems to be participating in the same, as anchorite called it, "dick-wagging", as suggested by the rumour that they want to extend the strike in order to teach the studios "a lesson".

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02 /04/arts/television/04leno.htm l

It answers some questions, like how Leno is able to write a monologue every night without a writing staff. It turns out he's been using a lot of old jokes. I assume his audience doesn't notice since most of Leno's jokes are pretty stale to begin with. It also suggests that he may be having help behind the scenes. For you Leno fans, it also gives him a few compliments. Interesting stuff.

If I understand the process correctly, both sides submit what they feel is their "final offer" and the mediator choses which is the most fair. For this to happen, both sides would have to want the strike to end and be willing to live with the other side's final offer if mediation does not go their way.

It really is pathetic how selfish and greedy the writers are being. THERE ARE SHITLOADS OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE NO JOBS BECAUSE OF YOU. But no, you want more money. Funny how you all say that the corporations are the greedy ones, when it looks plain as day that its actually the writers. Even the public has turned against you assholes.

Now argue amongst yourselves.

that is one of the dumbest, most ignorant, logic-lacking statements posted in this talkback (so far).

you really deserve an award

do you even understand what a residual is? do you have any basic business knowledge?

do you get upset at work cause you think the cashier makes more money than you "cause they handle the cash", while you work the fry bins?

i don't care if you do or don't support the writers, but at least try to make an intelligent comment!

my god man, loosen up the helmet!

But a nice intelligent rebuttle of my points. Helping me prove my point a little bit, I should thank you.

there are legitimate arguments to be made against this strike, but unfortunately many here (and you take the cake, kiddo) seem to have nothing more than "waah waah, writers whining. you make bad movies and get paid a lot, stop whining!"

like the fucking asshat earlier that says "oh, you made pluto nash, thanks for that", as if that has anything to do with fucking anything.

how can anyone argue about the importance of the writer to a production? suppose I have an idea for an invention. I make a rough prototype, get a patent, and then I hire a company to build a more streamlined version of my product, another company to mass produce it, and another company to market it. it's still my patent. it was my idea. the government protects patents diligently for this reason: original ideas matter.

I'm not saying production crews are not important. and their inconvenience in this strike is an unfortunate thing. but there is a difference between turning a blank piece of paper into a movie, and turning a lightbulb. sorry if that sounds disdainful, but honestly, political correctness aside. how can it be argued that the writer is not the genesis of most projects? as further evidence, check out the sad state of TV at the moment.

whether you see one side or the other of this strike is one thing. implying that writers are simply overpaid children who are interchangeable, or worse, don't matter, is comically fallacious.

On the other hand, I fully support the unions right to strike. There is nothing wrong with that. But it is unethical for them to prevent anyone else from writing. That's just bullying. It's the lowest of playground behavior. I have had to join several unions--each time it was because it was the only way I was "allowed" to work in each trade. That's crap. I resented it, and imagine that I will always hate that kind of thugery and it's implicit threat of mob violence.

jesus christ...do people even think about what they're writing?

yeah, that guy flipping burgers making minimum wage is an idiot. if he wanted more money, why not just buy a restaurant?

and what about that coal miner working in horrible conditions. just buy the mine, dude! then you'll be living the good life!

fucking hell, wipe the drool off your keyboard.

And supposedly, the strike over internet residuals is so the writers can hold on to what they have as the market gradually shifts towards downloading. Well then, I have to ask why are the writers essentially gambling on residuals paying off instead of taking fixed pay-per-script amounts? You want more money? Then sell more fucking scripts (preferably ones that don't suck like the ones most of you have been phoning in of late) instead of taking a piece up-front and hoping for a big payoff later.

For THIS you cost people their jobs and get mad when people don't automatically take your side against the big, bad corporations?!

do you understand that when you pay 1.99 on ITunes for an episode of "Retarded FuckNut Chronicles", Retarded Fucknut who wrote, directed and starred in his series see's none of that 1.99.

Or when the studio tells Retarded Fuck Nut that the show is SO popular, the fans want mini webisodes in addition to the broadcast episodes, FuckNut tightens the straps on his helmet and busts out five 3 minute webisodes which in turn draws viewers to the shows website (which the studios have packed with paying advertisers) as well having paid advertisements at the beginning of each webisode (that you can't skip past).

How much do you think old FuckNut gets for the exclusive webisode content that is generating advertising revenue for the Studio? none.

As far as rebutting your point, selling a painting is different than creating something that is a constant source of revenue for a business. I can tell you that if an artists painting is used in an advertisement, or in a book, or as an album cover- they get paid for the rights to use that image

as far as "no one else in this country gets residuals for their work", that is just an ignorant statement. of course not everyone gets residuals, not every job warrants residuals. Different jobs = different compensation packages. Talk to your HR rep at Burger King corporate, they probably have a pamphlet they can send you.

Here's a thought, go out and produce something creative and then sit back while someone else makes a shit load of money off of it and offers you little to no compensation.

in the mean time, please shut the fuck up.

basically, you seem to be saying that since writing is a financially insecure career move, the writers shouldn't be surprised when they find themselves out of work. this is a HORRENDOUS logical fallacy. the writers understand that their jobs sometimes mean sporadic and inconsistent income. all the MORE REASON why they should make sure that they are getting their fair shake at every turn.

your terribly flawed logical premise is akin to saying that someone who works as a coal miner shouldn't be surprised when they get black lung. well, perhaps, but that means that better safety measures are needed, better worker's rights, better health insurance options, etc. saying, "well they knew what they were going to get, fuck em", is not only mean spirited and ignorant, it's illogical in the context of a democratic society. people's rights don't go up and down depending on their job or their income.

SpyGuy, following from that, your argument is by far the most common argument against the writers in this issue. saying that someone shouldn't be able to use their constitutionally granted right to strike because their average income is higher than yours? or mine?

fair is fair. this desperate illogical reach for something to pin on the writer's always ends up on their "average" incomes. and it smacks of jealousy, not reasoned argument.

saying these jobs are difficult is obviously true. but saying they are as integral to a production as the writer who is the genesis of the idea, from which EVERYTHING ELSE is derived...that makes zero sense.

But a $750 ticket? C'mon...

Writers will be offerd less and will have no choice but to take it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02 /04/business/media/04writers.h tml

Yes, because what writers do is considered "pre-production" so other than scene changes or ending re-writes during shooting they don't do much if anything on the production. So I guess you are correct there. Or is it that you don't consider writing to be work? I think if you take the number of hours a writer spends on a script and compare that to the number of hours any given crew members spends actually working (not just waiting for the next set-up or for actors to show-up) you may find it's about even.

As for "least risk", except for the guy whose money is being used to finance the picture, no one is at "risk" (unless you mean stunt men, but that risk is physical, not financial, and they are well-trained so the risk to them is minimal).

And as for "they want the most reward" I have to ask: really?!? According to who? They are asking for an increase from 1/3 of a cent per DVD to 2/3 of a cent. Tell me, what do DGA or SAG members get? What do producers get?

One last thing: I keep coming across the argument "why should writers get residuals when lighting, sound, makeup, wardrobe, etc, don't get any?". I ask: why don't the unions who represent lighting, sound, makeup, wardrobe, etc, get residuals for their members? Instead of the argument being made here that the writers shouldn't get it because others don't, we should all be championing the cause of getting residuals for ALL who work in the industry.

p.s. snowtires is 100% correct that extending the strike just to "send a message" is indeed childish and selfish.

And my second point is my previously stated point. The writer is working for the production company. They should be happy they're getting any residuals in the first place. Very few other jobs offer anything like this. A Lost writer writes for Lost/ABC as their job. The script is ABC's property now. The writer doesn't deserve anything more than that.

Now if you can refute that point to me rationally (instead of calling me an asshole or trying to generally insult me), I do have an open mind. But mainly I hope that this deal goes through and we can stop having these conversations.

You are right in saying that the residual package writers get is unlike anything you will find in most jobs. That being said, I am reminded of sales people I have worked with. Their job was to bring in new business. They would make the initial contact, make the presentation, and usually be the one to close the deal. But their involvement with the client would end there. Whatever transactions the new client made with the company was handled by another department. So whatever money the company made from the client came from the work of the agent dealing with the client and not the sales guy who brought them in.

The sales people were paid a base salary that was minimum wage but they also got commission based on the revenue generated by the clients they brought in. If the company made money off the client, the salesperson made money too. Bring in a big account, rake in the big bucks. On the other hand, bring in a dud, and go home empty handed. The pay of the salesperson was tied to how well they did their job but also how well the company handled the client. A lot of other people, whose job serviced the client either directly or indirectly, and were in some way responsible for keeping the client happy, did not get any commission. But they got a much higher base salary.

The sales people took the minimum wage sales job because they knew that if they were successful they could make a lot of money (more than most of us were making with our dependable paycheque). To pay them a base salary of what they were worth, taking into account what potential business they could bring in, would be extremely costly and almost impossible to predict. There was no way of knowing, when hiring someone, if he would be bringing in the million dollar accounts, or be a waste of resources.

To finally get back to the writers (I took the scenic route), I feel it is very similar. In order to pay writers what they are worth would mean paying them $60 grand per episode rather than per year. Or more. The cast of Friends made $1 million per episode in the final couple of seasons (not including residuals), but how much did the writers get? They are the ones that created the situations and made them say all those funny things that so many people tuned in to see and hear. Writing is a creative endeavour and it's worth is difficult to gauge before the final product is finished. Will it sell or will it tank? If it tanks, the writer get nothing; if it sells, he gets his due; he gets his share of what his creation earned.

Also, I understand the point about commissions, and how that somewhat relates to residules. However, it is my understanding that writers are not making minimum wage and 'hoping' for residules. They are making a half-way decent salery, and residules just happen to be a nice bonus because of the fact that they have a union backing them up.

Someone else made a point about there being no writers if you want a good paying job. I disagree with this statement. It would be similar to teaching if you eliminated residules. You would have decent writers making an OK living because they LOVE what they do. And you would have a smaller group of writers making a lot more because they are the cream of the crop (college teachers).

If you want me to comment on anything other points i may have missed, let me know.

I can't find the energy to answer the strike's naysayers, so I'll simply suggest doing some reading at www.unitedhollywood.com. I've also posted a few things myself at thepodosphere.com.

I'd also like to express my appreciation to everyone who has supported the WGA in these difficult times, and urge patience and continued support while the process of negotiation continues. The writers won't take anything less than a fair deal. If the negotiators bring the general membership a lousy deal, I can tell you right now the writers will vote it down. If you want the strike over quickly, pressure the AMPTP. They can end this any time they choose.