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PUSHING DAISIES, MAD MEN, TELL ME YOU LOVE ME, FRIDAY NIGHT LIGHTS & SOPRANOS Make AFI’s 2007 Top Ten!!

Fist! by TheTagger	Dec 16th, 2007 10:36:27 PM
dammit.
Sopranos???? by psychedelic	Dec 16th, 2007 10:41:19 PM
It has one of the worst piece of crap endings of all time that NOBODY liked and it gets a top ten nod?? The the f...
Where's "Stomp the Yard"? by YakMalla	Dec 16th, 2007 10:44:58 PM
Philistines.
sopranos by waggy	Dec 16th, 2007 10:45:53 PM
climactic season of the defining television series of this decade? yeah, i'd say it deserves a nod, even if some whiny fans are miffed they didn't get to see tony with a bullet in his head.
no "lost"? by Toe Jam	Dec 16th, 2007 10:46:20 PM
i know most mainstream viewers lamented this past season, but anyone with discriminating taste (i.e., afi) knew it was fucking great, especially that season finale.
psychedelic by YakMalla	Dec 16th, 2007 10:47:37 PM
Just cause you didn't understand it doesn't make it bad. You see, Tony's dead. Unless Chase gets enough green for the movie, in which case he's alive, and then you're right, the ending WAS crap.
Glad to see Dexter there by TheMcflyFarm	Dec 16th, 2007 10:55:35 PM
and The Sopranos totally deserved to be there, and anybody who thinks Tony died at the end is an idiot.
High Conversation Amongst the Cognoscente by YakMalla	Dec 16th, 2007 11:11:25 PM
I was just about to apologize to psychedelic for being mean - sorry, dude, I was just tired when I wrote that you didn't understand it - when somebody has to go and call me an idiot. Great. So now I have to respond in kind to TheMcflyFarm's thoughfully reasoned analysis of the Sopranos ending. Ready? OK: Anybody who thinks Tony lived at the end is a poo-poo head.
Wheres the Extras series finale talkback?` by eggbeater	Dec 16th, 2007 11:25:37 PM
It was perfect.
Knocked Up on the list by slder78	Dec 16th, 2007 11:28:18 PM
So eat it Katherine Heigl. Probably the only movie of hers that will ever be on that list. I used to really dig her, but bathmouthing Apatow..too far. There's outspoken, then there's ungrateful. That sound you hear in the distance Katherine? It's your middle age coming, choose your next projects wisely b/c after that you get to play the lead in a drama on TNT or FX.
Herc obviously does not watch anything but Buffy by blakes7	Dec 16th, 2007 11:30:44 PM
Dexter was the FIRST choice on the list, but somehow did not make it over to Herc's AICN headline. Herc has covered Dexter only -three- times since it began, which does not make sense. Herc even says, "Though I didn’t make it past the series’ pilot last season." Does Herc actually watch anything anymore except Buffy reruns? Dexter has been the best show on TV this year PERIOD. The past two episodes up till tonight's season finale were amazing. Fuck Mad Men, Fuck Friday Night lights and Fuck even Pushing Daisies (even though I really like the show). Dexter blows every other show this season A-fucking-way. I wish Herc would get his head out his ass and start covering shows we like, not just what he likes. BTW, Dexter has had the highest ratings of any Showtime show EVER, and is so good that even CBS is going to carry a censored version to fill in during the writers strike.
FNL seemed to finally bury the murder story. by Barry Egan	Dec 17th, 2007 12:06:07 AM
The season seems to have gotten it's footing. The things that were wrong with it stunk of idiot network executive notes: the murder, very little football. "How do we get people who don't like football to watch? I know! Take the football out of the show!" Losing the football takes away what the show is really about: how a town needs it.
Sopranos the "defining series of the decade"? by Sledge Hammer	Dec 17th, 2007 12:10:15 AM
Fuck. Off. Maybe, maybe you could make that claim two full seasons ago, and it'd be in the running at least, but from season 5 onwards Sopranos lost it's way big time, just plodding on with no real effect, purpose or clear sense of direction. The Wire, Oz, Deadwood, and even Lost are far more worthy (at this point) for such an over-the-top level of adulation when citing "show of the decade". Sopranos at it's best was top notch, no argument there, but it's last three years or so wasn't anywhere near it's best, and, for me at least, wouldn't even scrape into the top 10 shows on tv of those given years, let along being anywhere near classic tv. I'm not bitching about the ending either, I'm bitching about the fact that that once great show had been on autopilot for a damn long time before it plodding out to that final episode. Sad, but true. For me at least. Nice to see Dexter get some credit on this (odd) list though.
To Sledge Hammer by genre.comeback	Dec 17th, 2007 12:34:16 AM
I understand your point, and agree that both Deadwood and the Wire are superior programs to the Sopranos. But the Sopranos basically opened the door for all the other programs you mentioned. There's no way the genius of Deadwood gets brought to the screen without the proven success of the Sopranos. Seeing that without the Sopranos, the bulk of edgy, violent and vulgar TV (my favourite kind) doesn't get a chance, I'll back the claim of defining TV for the decade. At least defining the best TV (there's no accounting for Two and a Half Men or CSI: Anchorage). And yay Dexter... so brilliant. Just watched the finale, and remain awed with this show.
Oops by genre.comeback	Dec 17th, 2007 12:35:21 AM
Except Oz, I actually do know that Oz came before the Sopranos, before people get their panties all bunched.
DEXTER! by midknightmason	Dec 17th, 2007 12:43:25 AM
Darn it, theres a show worthy of the spot. Amazing Show. Good Performances. Best show on TV. And absolutely very little coverage here.
Since I opened this door… by psychedelic	Dec 17th, 2007 01:17:11 AM
The first three seasons of The Sopranos are brilliant classics to be treasured. Then basically it plods, plods, plods with albeit good production values, performances, occasional compelling scenes. The finale is a cop out. It commits to nothing. You can read into it whatever you want. It’s like Chase was saying to the audience, “Ahh, ahh, ahhhh. Thought you could outguess me, eh. Well, you didn’t see THIS coming.” It’s cynical and condescending to the loyal audience. What kind of great ending is great as long as there isn’t a movie? An ending that stinks, that’s what. That last diner scene aside, most of the last episode consisted of AJ’s whining and waffling. This is not what The Sopranos should be remembered for. Season one’s assassination attempt on Tony, Big Pussy’s good-bye, the fate of Ralphie’s girlfriend—none of the later seasons approaches this stuff. Come on, the first season six episode (or was it part two season six) was people playing a board game by a lake, not exactly riveting mobster drama. The Sopranos deserves a revered proper place, but this final season let down does not deserve a top ten nod. I’m going to watch the season finale of Dexter now.
No Lost or BSG? For shame... by Zardoz	Dec 17th, 2007 01:47:46 AM
and Friday Night Lights? Really? But hooray for Mad Men, definitely the best series last year! Kudos...
DAN VASSER IS NOT PLEASED! by LordEnigma	Dec 17th, 2007 01:58:22 AM
He's not. He really is not pleased. Stupid AFI.
genre.comeback... by Sledge Hammer	Dec 17th, 2007 04:06:06 AM
...Fair points man, and I can respect that. I'd still argue that Oz really paved the way for the cable tv we see today, being HBO's first in house produced drama series, and pushing the envelope in terms of not only quality and the type of content that can be shown, but also in expanding the television storytelling form into new ways of thinking. But I'll definitely concede that it was Sopranos that was responsible for the cable explosion and for really kickstarting cable tv popularity to the masses.
Meh by Yeti	Dec 17th, 2007 05:57:05 AM
X2
The Wire Season. 4 ended in the middle of December 2006 by MRJONZ72	Dec 17th, 2007 07:02:20 AM
Maybe that's why it's not on a list for best shows of the year 2007. That said I wonder if it made the list for 2006? Possibly my favorite show of all time.
I watched the whole third season of LOST... by Mockingbird Girl	Dec 17th, 2007 07:05:25 AM
... and those of you who think it was one of the ten best shows last year obviously aren't watching much TV. Good finale, fucking awful rest of the season.
Everybody Hates Chris by MRJONZ72	Dec 17th, 2007 07:06:45 AM
I love the show, granted I havent seen much of the current season, but its a great show, still I was shocked to see that it made AFI's list. I just fig since it was on CW and a couple other reasons...they wouldnt had even paid attention to it.
Pushing Daisies? by Kid Z	Dec 17th, 2007 07:47:06 AM
...Has to be the gayest show ever conceived and aired. Makes sense it'd make the AFI list. Gay Mafia strikes again!
RE : Kid Z by Real Deal	Dec 17th, 2007 08:39:26 AM
Just becuase you don't get a show doesn't mean it's " Gay " or anything else. PD is one of the best most original shows on TV. I'm hetero and I watch it every week! You could also say it's so " Dr. Seuss ".
LOST, Damages, BSG (as uneven as it was this season) by PVIII	Dec 17th, 2007 08:44:38 AM
For shame AFI, for shame!
Sopranos... by travis-dane	Dec 17th, 2007 08:50:37 AM
life just goes on for Tony and the others.It started in somwhere and ended somwhere else.Just a look on 6 years of day to day Mob life.Great ending for a groundbreaking show.And for the best T.V.shows,heres my list: Sopranos,Deadwood,The Shield,Black Donnelys,Buffy and Rome.
AFI knows: Dexter by palewook	Dec 17th, 2007 09:03:29 AM
made the list. as it should have. perhaps for season 3 it might finally earn a TB on aicn, unless someone is covering lifetime series that week..
Hell yeah Dexter! by SID 8.0	Dec 17th, 2007 09:34:01 AM
About time this show got some love. For those who say Dexter is the only good character are crazy. Deb has grown right before our eyes. Frank is cool as they come and I don't think he's convinced that Doakes was the Butcher like the LT. Can't wait for next season.
Dexter has some spectacularly shit-tastic dialogue by gruntybear	Dec 17th, 2007 10:11:56 AM
If you can get past the dumb-as-a-box-of-rocks "patter," it's an interesting concept, but not "best of" list quality. Showtime's other originals blew "Dexter" completely out of the water - "Weeds" (even with the reset button pushing every episode) and "Californication" had some of the snappiest, blink and you'll miss the joke writing I've heard all year. And the "Sopranos" whiners just need to shut the fuck up already. If you couldn't understand the vicious, just beneath the surface familial tensions at play in the season opener, then, of course, you wouldn't "get" what was going on in the finale. With Bobby doubly emasculated and Tony turning up the childhood teasing that now contained the undercurrent of "I know what you did to your husband, Janice," that one scene alone deserved the "best of" nod.
Everybody Hates Chris by Series7	Dec 17th, 2007 10:26:52 AM
is a lot better and funnier then i keep thinking. I always watch going, why am I gonna watch this but then it always ends up being really funny. His dad is hilarious in everything he is in. He was on Conan and was funny as hell too, he just such a big goofy guy. I think the need to make a show with just him and Tracy Morgans body guards on 30 rock, Tj and .com i think.
No Wire = this list means nothing by JimCurry	Dec 17th, 2007 11:38:19 AM
because they're obviously assholes.
What's Longford? by Charlie Murphy	Dec 17th, 2007 11:54:00 AM
nevah hoid of it.
Longford by supertoyslast	Dec 17th, 2007 12:03:39 PM
Was a 2-hour TV drama made by Channel 4 in the UK based on the efforts of Lord Longford to gain the right of appeal for Myra Hindley. It was much praised, but I can't comment on its quality since I haven't seen it myself. Looking at the blurb at the end of the lists, I can't tell whether they are meant to be the top ten "best" or "most significant" i.e. shows and films which best represent TV and cinema in 2007.
Sledge Hammer by genre.comeback	Dec 17th, 2007 12:05:11 PM
In complete agreement. The Sopranos may have been the first to achieve wide appeal, but it was definitely not the first to push boundaries in that way. Oz was certainly among the first to do so, if not the first.
I second the point: The Wire was 2006. by Lenny Nero	Dec 17th, 2007 12:41:04 PM
I like how people forget things. NOT!
Psychedelic, a lot of us loved the end... by Lenny Nero	Dec 17th, 2007 12:42:16 PM
...of Sopranos. Please put that in your mind.
What the hell has to happen by toshiro-solo	Dec 17th, 2007 12:52:00 PM
for The Wire to get noticed? Best show on TV. Period.
Toshiro, WIRE WASN'T ON THIS YEAR! by Lenny Nero	Dec 17th, 2007 01:39:51 PM
Sheesh...
HEY MODERATORS by GavinVanDraven	Dec 17th, 2007 02:05:33 PM
dont you think DEXTER deserved its own talkback? season two just ended... (in an explosive way i might add) and never once have any of you guys posted a talkback for this show. everybody i tell about this show ends up renting the first season dvd's and watches them in a day... then they go and order showtime. its batshit insane how good this show is and not enough people know about it. season 3 deserves an episode by episode talkback. yes?
It's not surprising that Dexter never had talkbacks by smackfu	Dec 17th, 2007 02:18:36 PM
It's common knowledge that Herc has just about the shittiest taste possible in tv shows. Never watched Rome, doesn't watch Dexter. This guy avoids the best shows on TV in favor of fucking reality shows. He's the tv equivalent of a movie columnist/reviewer who's never seen Citizen Kane or the Godfather.
hate for lost by BurgerKing	Dec 17th, 2007 02:59:02 PM
What the hell is with these organizations hating on Lost? Golden Globes, Emmys, AFI? At least AFI didn't sink to the level of the Emmys by giving Heroes more attention than Lost, are you kidding?
who here would be in favor of a dexter talkback? by GavinVanDraven	Dec 17th, 2007 03:19:55 PM
for next season... since aicn screwed the pooch for the first 2 seasons.
I'm tired of Zodiac being ommitted from... by DanielKurland	Dec 17th, 2007 03:41:55 PM
lists/nominations. Yes, it came out a while ago, but was fucking phenomenal. That being said, glad to see Mad Men on here, as well as Dexter, due to their fantastic second season. I enjoyed the show's first year, but was floored by the quality they were bringing this time around.
Best Films and TV Shows of 2007 by Johnny Smith	Dec 17th, 2007 03:42:58 PM
FILM: I'm Not There; Across the Universe; Hot Fuzz; 1408; Live! SERIES: Battlestar Galactica, Supernatural, Jericho, Journeyman, South Park.
Lenny Niro by toshiro-solo	Dec 17th, 2007 03:48:38 PM
My bad - you're right. I had thought it edged into January of '07, but it was indeed done in December of '06. Still - this list is kinda weak.
Ah, the Sopranos ending will be debated forever by I am_NOTREAL	Dec 17th, 2007 04:24:58 PM
But it was perfect for anyone who paid attention to the series. Anyone who watched just to see who would get whacked & how wanted blood and are outraged they didn't get it, naturally enough, but then they didn't even understand the show in the first place, so why should the end of it be any exception??? Call it "the Russian in the woods syndrome."
Toshiro, to each his own. by Lenny Nero	Dec 17th, 2007 04:46:57 PM
It's pretty dead-on for the most part, because I have about 15 shows I absolutely love, and they could trade positions and I'd be at about the same place.
Yeah, UB and TMYLM are the only ones... by Lenny Nero	Dec 17th, 2007 04:48:01 PM
...to which I don't give five stars.
psychedelic, How was the ending a "cop out"? by azmodien	Dec 17th, 2007 05:42:07 PM
To commit a cop out, he could have pandered to the CSI masses and made a super-climactic ending with Tony dying in a hail of bullets. He didn't because, THATS NOT WHAT FUCKING HAPPENS IN REAL LIFE. That is what a 14 year old would think of. Instead he tied up all the loose ends involving Pauly, AJ, Junior, Meadow, and Phil's crew. Then he ended it in a satisfying, wholly original way. One could argue there were different, equally good ways to finish it. But for most viewers, it stayed true to the form of the show and avoided conventional TV formulas. As far as 'noboby' liking the ending, I have not found that to be the case at all. The people I have talked to who don't like it are usually either A.) simple, or B.) weren't big fans of the show and didn't follow it every week. And no, not ALL of the people who didn't like the ending are stupid, but most of them are the same people who booed in the theater when "No Country For Old Men" ended. They have never read a book in their life, and don't know how to process anything that is not spelled out for them. I know it is 'elitist' or 'condescending' to say so, but people who hate the Sopranos finale are the reason there is nothing good on TV.
Pandering to Network TV by Miyamoto_Musashi	Dec 17th, 2007 06:05:36 PM
I really can't see how any Network TV would make this list compared to the quality of HBO (Sopranos, The Wire, Larry David - CYE), FX (The Shield, Damages), Showtime (Dexter, Weeds) and even Sci-fi with BSG. Think Lost really would be the only one for me that could compete with the quality of some of the product of the cable/pay tv.
Here's how the ending is a cop out. by psychedelic	Dec 17th, 2007 07:42:15 PM
I gave The Sopranos my full attention wringing nuance from the often supreme writing. I saw every episode except a single one in the fourth season. Psychology was once written into the very backbone of the show with perceptive observation on the human condition. It’s not reasonable to say I “didn’t even understand the show in the first place” and was just a casual fan. I think the ending of No Country For Old Men is just fine; it’s my favorite movie of this outstanding cinematic year. We can debate how The Sopranos’ loose ends with minor characters were tied up, for argument’s sake we’ll say yes they were tied up well, but Tony is the center of the show and what happens to him is a blank space. The cop out is giving a Rorschach inkblot of an ending that gives no answers but what you make of it. I see this as cowardly writing by someone (i.e. David Chase) that either couldn’t or wouldn’t provide an honest satisfying ending. The prime contrast is Six Feet Under; they had the courage to commit to a definite ending that could have fallen flat yet concluded the show beautifully. If The Sopranos had a whacked out David Lynch tone, then perhaps the end would have been okay. But it doesn’t, it never did—despite some goofy dream sequences—and the end purposely grated with everything before. The ending is as original as Bobby Ewing showing up in the shower and the previous season being a dream. Is an Agatha Christie mystery with the last page ripped out original? There’s a difference between being non-formulaic and a writer being petulant to his audience. So did Tony Soprano die? Sir Arthur Conan Doyle killed off Sherlock Holmes and look how long that lasted.
Journeyman is 50 times better than Pushing Daisies. by polyh3dron	Dec 17th, 2007 08:04:44 PM
The overabundant voiceovers made Pushing Daisies dead to me.
Psych, the "blank space" is the point. by Lenny Nero	Dec 17th, 2007 08:30:09 PM
The fact that you are unwilling to take that Rorschach test says a great deal about you.
How is the blank space the point? by psychedelic	Dec 17th, 2007 08:35:28 PM

To extend the metaphor: by psychedelic	Dec 17th, 2007 08:49:41 PM
The Sopranos was never about taking Rorschach tests. By Contrast, Mulholland Dr.—or even Twin Peaks—is all about taking Rorschach tests. To throw up a Rorschach test at The Sopranos’ end is contrary to what came before. I’m happy to take Rorschach tests if they’re a part of the program, but in The Sopranos’ case it’s dishonest to the audience.
Every good piece of literature looks within. by Lenny Nero	Dec 17th, 2007 09:20:23 PM
And what makes shows like Sopranos and The Wire so good is their ability to point a mirror at American life (family, commerce, politics, etc.) and, in that sense, to give Sopranos an ending of closure (and believe me, no ending would have satisfied) would completely betray the point of the entire series. This is a part of our world, this disgusting, brutal, unfair way of life, and tying it up in a nice little bow would have been a lie and a falsity to a series of so much depth. Of course Sopranos is a Rorschach test. I can't believe this is even up for debate.
A test, if you will, psychedelic... by Lenny Nero	Dec 17th, 2007 09:31:39 PM
...and feel free to call me a over-educated, pretentious, know-it-all basatard. If you're familiar with Sophocles' Oedipus Cycle (the plays Antigone, Oedipus the King and Oedipus and Colonus), this should be a good question about how to approach great literature: At the end of Oedipus at Colonus, the titular character (who, as we all know, unknowingly killed his father and fucked his mother in OTK), after all his shame and heartache both upon himself and others, disappears presumably to his fated death. Now, is he punished for his wickedness or absolved of his sins? This should provide an answer as to what I'm trying to accomplish.
Hmmm...apparently a "basatard" who can't spell. by Lenny Nero	Dec 17th, 2007 09:32:53 PM
I need to stop drinking before 9 p.m.
Dexter wasn't first! by hatramroany	Dec 17th, 2007 09:42:10 PM
It's alphabetical you dumb ass! And I think Harry's headline was more for the shows that surprisingly made the list.
Coaxial is done by Herc, good sir... by Lenny Nero	Dec 17th, 2007 09:51:22 PM
...not Harry. And thus I continue my correcting-other-people nonsense!
Lack of Dexter = Blackest Mark on AICN by emvan	Dec 18th, 2007 12:38:39 AM
Given its subject matter and is quality, this site ignoring Dexter is incomprehensible. I just for the hell of it combined my top 10 movie and TV lists and Pushing Daisies and Dexter ended up as 1-2 ahead of any movie. I have already stated that the 2nd season of Dexter is the best non-Buffy TV season ever (obviously PD will share that distinction once it ends). They are both pretty much impossibly good (and anyone who thinks the dialogue in Dexter isn't razor sharp has a tin ear). Odd that they're both all about death . . . If Herc can't de-orificize his brains and start covering it, Harry needs to assign someone else to cover the show. Imagine if the site had just one film critic and he walked out of No Country For Old Men after the first ten minutes and then turned a deaf air to the unanimous chorus of praise: that's the movie equivalent of Herc punting on Dexter after one ep and never checking it out again. The only major complaint I have with the AFI list is the absence of Californication, which was easily the third best show I’ve watched this year, more satisfying than just a handful of movies (the aforementioned, Once, Southland Tales if you read the graphic novels first, Lars and the Real Girl, Michael Clayton, maybe Bourne). Unlike PD and Dexter, there was nothing much unique about it—but it was compellingly plotted, hilarious and touching.
HEY HERC ,WE'RE CALLING YOU OUT! by GavinVanDraven	Dec 18th, 2007 01:55:05 AM
HARRY, IF HERC DOESNT ANSWER THIS... WE'RE CALLING YOU OUT TOO. PICK UP DEXTER SEASON ONE AND WATCH IT! GO WATCH THE SECOND SEASON ON SHOWTIME AND GIVE US A TALKBACK FOR NEXT SEASON. IF ANY SHOW DESERVES A TALKBACK ITS DEXTER! rant over. resume normal typing "voice"... harry needs to watch this show too. lots of gore and sex and witty banter and suspense and tension and make you pull your hair out cliffhangers... fucking best show on tv. its impossible not to get hooked. its impossible not to rave like a madman.....
oh yeah... by GavinVanDraven	Dec 18th, 2007 01:58:04 AM
and the coolest, funniest, most lovable serial killer you would ever want to not fuck with. you root for the bad guy because he's doing good things... in a bad way. fucking brilliant. that is all.
Response to Lenny Nero by psychedelic	Dec 18th, 2007 02:24:16 AM
Evil goes on and dramatic closure, neat or messy, betrays this notion? Stories reflective of society inevitably conclude in a cliffhanger? Great literature always leaves the protagonist’s fate ambiguous? Applying such restrictive criteria regardless of mood or tone ignores the organic nature of the creative process and of any piece of art’s individuality. It puts blinders on you. But here’s my main beef: any movie, book, poem, etc. has an internal logic. The end of The Sopranos conflicted with its internal logic. Yes, in the previously mentioned game board episode, Tony or Bobby expressed the belief that everything went black when you got whacked. But the last finale clashed with expectations of other seasons’ conclusions and more importantly with the overall spirit of the show. It shot a sucker punch on the audience that didn’t fit with the show’s well established internal logic. Such ill-chosen writing is definitely not worthy of a top ten nod. Honestly, I’m surprised no one else here is saying they didn’t like the end. I know I’m not the only one who didn’t.
No "Lost", "Office" or "BSG" love......? by The Alienist	Dec 18th, 2007 09:58:07 AM
Wrong wrong wrong
I didn't say... by Lenny Nero	Dec 18th, 2007 10:53:59 AM
..."great literature always leaves the protagonist's fate ambiguous." I wish you'd actually apply my argument into yours before you waste time going on about something that's beside the point and out of the argument. Please please please read my earlier posts carefully. And no, I am not talking about the "everything went black is death" argument. That's a red herring, and I also hate people who cite that as definite proof of the ending.
And no, Xiphos... by Lenny Nero	Dec 18th, 2007 12:02:02 PM
...I do not have a Classics degree. But I do believe that to be a good filmmaker, one has to possess more than just a rudimentary knowledge of the defining stories of history.
Stop Bashing Pushing Daisies by Automaton Overlord	Dec 18th, 2007 01:26:32 PM
I agree, voiceovers usualy are an indicator of lazy writing, but "daisies" has, in many other ways exersized a vigorous creativity.
I read your earlier posts carefully last time by psychedelic	Dec 18th, 2007 06:24:48 PM
Ambiguous fate is what your Oedipus example illustrates. Is he punished for his wickedness or absolved of his sins? Is Tony Soprano dead or alive? Neither question is answered. From your perspective, closure on The Sopranos would have been untrue to the series like closure would be untrue to Oedipus. The Sopranos follows the classic pattern and therefore works. My point is the non-closure of The Sopranos IS untrue to the series in the context of other seasons, the larger work. Therefore the ambiguous “Rorschach” ending is inappropriate.
No, that's not what I'm getting at. by Lenny Nero	Dec 18th, 2007 06:33:54 PM
This is fun. :)
However, you do bring me to a separate point. by Lenny Nero	Dec 18th, 2007 06:41:02 PM
Another reason why I would choose Sophocles' work to use over, say, John Sayles' "Limbo" or an Arthur Miller play as a comparison. Dun dun duuuuuuun...
Dexter Talkback by BigFo	Dec 20th, 2007 09:58:21 AM
I'm in. It is unbelievable that this hasn't happened yet. You think we're stupid you should read the posts on the Showtime message boards !!
No Country for Old Men by theredtoad	Dec 20th, 2007 11:12:28 AM
is there any better movie that has come out this year? NO!
Well, it seems psychedelic left the building. by Lenny Nero	Dec 20th, 2007 08:52:21 PM
I can't teach anyone who doesn't want to learn.

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PUSHING DAISIES, MAD MEN, TELL ME YOU LOVE ME, FRIDAY NIGHT LIGHTS & SOPRANOS Make AFI’s 2007 Top Ten!!

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