Heath is very fine looking in this role after all.

How about some lighting? perhaps a cool composition?

I like the joker but not...in a trenchcoat. The way he looks in the jail cell is cool though.

By the way, I respect all of you.

even when its on fire. I think if you watch the trailer too much and try to piece together what happens from the images it does seem like theyre showing too much. For the casual viewer theyll never realize what's what however.

Although I'd watched the teaser and seen the publicity photos of the Joker, I am actually surprised. He's different from what I'd expected.

Batman's costume doesn't look as dorky as I'd expected. But what was he doing in a well-lit room? Batman's style is to throw a batarang at the lights, and then take-out the criminals one-by-one, to avoid being seen. That sort of thing probably shouldn't bother me, but when I saw it on this trailer I almost instantly remembered the scene in Batman & Robin in which the Dynamic Duo make a publicity appearance for charity and ultimately find themselves bidding over Poison Ivy. *cringes*

Obviously, I'm only kidding. But please be careful when you call somebody a homophobe. Phobia refers to an irrational fear. Gay porn does not make me afraid, it makes me want to throw up in the same way that rape, bestiality, incest, and pedophilia do. Regardless of what it might be to others, it makes me very sick to look at it.

ht tp:/ /pm sa.zoom share.co m

Now, if the pro-gay porn community is as educated as it claims to be, then it should have no problem coming up with a catchy new name for those of us (most Americans) who do not fear it, but are allergic to it.

second. yes Sinestro Corps War is the greatest superhero story ever.

Out of work and with a baby on the way, he reluctantly sold himself to the local mob. They allowed him to join because of how useful he would be in stealing valuable chemicals from the laboratory that he had worked at; he knew the lab's security system better than they did.

Now, as was this particular gang's habit, they made him where the same red mask that they had made other men similar to their latest victim where, so that, in the event that they ever got caught, they could claim that the "Red Barron" had forced them to do it all.

Just before the mission began, he received word that his wife had suddenly died in a freak accident at home. Their child, too, had perished. The man's already fragile mind began to break. In one of those decisions that never really makes sense in retrospect, he continued with the mob's demands, which were, coincidently, going to take place that very night.

Everything went according to plan. The scientist was able to dodge the security systems. But before he was able to escape with the stolen goods, Batman appeared. Presuming the fantastic person before him to be an angel of divine punishment, he freaked out and jumped into a chemical waste system leading out of the building. He was presumed dead.

This is about where TDK begins.

Having been dealt an unbelievably bad hand by fate, the man suffered a mental breakdown and concluded that there is no order in life, only chaos; and that life itself is just one big joke.

In the distant future, the Joker tries to prove to Gordon that one single bad day can destroy a man by paralyzing and raping Gordon's daughter. Gordon does not crack, but long afterward shoots the Joker at point-blank-range in both of his knees after the demented clown murders his fiance in cold-blood.

Take, for instance, Clayface. He is a man who acquired shape-shifting abilities via an overdose of stage makeup.

Then, there's Clock King, perhaps one of the lamest excuses for a super villain ever. He turned to a life of time-piece-themed crimes after he was late for a judicial appointment.

You see, those sorts of characters will never see the light-of-day in a Nolan film because they just aren't believable.

For what it's worth, some of the characters that I can see appearing in a Nolan flick include:

The Penguin, who is just a short mob boss with a penchant for umbrellas and tuxedos.

Poison Ivy, a radical environmentalist specializing in exotic carnivorous vegetation.

Killer Croc, a deformed baby-turned-pro-wrestler who took up a life of crime.

Bane, a cool-natured Russian convict who was subjected to super-soldier experiments.

Catwoman, a limber, attractive, good-hearted animal rights advocate and burglar who has a fetish for whips and cat-ears.

Talia al Ghul, the daughter of Ra's al Ghul.

The Ventriloquist, a meak-natured man whose other personality expresses himself via a puppet and commands an entire mob.

Harley Quinn, a young and impressionable psychologist who fell in love with the Joker.

Firefly, a criminally insane pyromaniac with a flashy suit.

The General, a psychotic teenage boy obsessed with war tactics who dresses himself and his henchmen in historical military outfits.

Lock-Up, an incredibly violent and merciless vigilante who likes to kidnap and torture criminals.

The Sewer King, the cruel-natured leader of a sewer-based mob of children.

Granted the climax of Begins doesn't live up to the first two-third, but that's true of most films. Hell the last third of The Matrix almost ruined the film for me it was so bad. The forced climax is usually shoehorned into the film. However, the only alternative was to do away with the basic Hollywood climax, which would have the same people bitching. For a Hollywood climax it was pretty good, just not as great as the rest of the film.

That's like if they ever did do a Spidey re-launch, the Green Goblin would have to be in it. Again, his greatest villain needs to be there. Its their greatest test for who they are and who they represent. Though I suppose with Spidey, you really don't need to have Gobby show up again. Kraven would be nice, but that's another story....

You are correct, the lack of the Joker most certainly did not hinder it, but I think the Joker needed to be saved for when Batman is more 'established', which is what the first movie was for...to tear him down. I don't know enough about Batman to know which of his villains are 'great' and which ones are not.

Just my opinion here, but I do think that Batman should be rated R this time and here's why: The Tim Burton Batman films, and those that followed, were obviously meant for a large family audience. Despite how dark the first film was, it's still very much kid safe. They all hold up fine on DVD and were fairly good comic-book adaptations. The 13-17 crowd has their Batman. Do we really need another set of movies that mimic them or a franchise that's only slightly toned down in comparison. I say go adult with them and go as real as possible. Let me have my 18+ Batman that lives in a world where Gotham looks like Chicago or Baltimore, where very sinister villains do very naughty, horrible things and use foul language. They murder, they hurt people and they give you a reason to be afraid of them and cheer for the good-guy. The idea is no sillier then Robocop.

I liked the DK trailer. Nolan's got my money. I'll withhold judgment on everything else until then. This summer, I guess I'll have to buy a package of diapers because I'm going to be doing a lot of peeing and pooping myself in the theater.

Again, I'm not a hater, just my opinion.

Well it is a Batman film. . . yes a Batman film - -clue is in the name Batman. . .man dresses as a bat and fights crime. Yeah I know, lets shoot for realism on this film

"You wouldn't hit a guy with glasses on, would you?" POW!!!!!

Careful anchorite...starting to sound like M-O-M with that last statement....

Sorry you dislike every Batman movie ever made, but as someone who just watches the movies, and never read the comic books, I dig Nolan's Batman a lot.

Anyway, some points. To those way above who said that the Comedian from Watchmen sounds like Joker in his origin story, that may be because Alan Moore wrote both characters.

Also, I do think that Catwoman, Penguin and Robin can fit into the Nolanverse. Going the route of the short, fat arms dealer with a sense of class (like in the BTAS) with Penguin would be fine. Calling him 'the Penguin' sounds like a mob nickname. Maybe he doesn't like it so much. And Catwoman would NOT have cat powers or leather and whip fetishes, she'd just be a damn good thief who can outsmart Batman. No mask, no costume. But still hot and a little messed up. And Robin can still work in this 'verse, even though he probably wouldn't fit into this planned trilogy. Perhaps in a second one. He would work better with an older Bruce Wayne, who sees something of himself in the orphaned boy, takes him in but doesn't know how to deal with a kid (he's a kid, not a teenage/college-age gay innuendo). Bats sees this as a chance to pass on his legacy, or to have the son he could never have. Kid gets in danger, Bruce realizes he has to train him. You could eventually have some good training sequences. But again, no fancy costume there. Although I also think that maybe adding Robin to the mix eventually could be the good publicity that Batman needs in Gotham. Maybe the kid captures the hearts of the media and Batman sees that he can use this to his advantage, until the boy becomes a target, almost gets killed (by 2Face?) and Bats has to rethink the whole thing. It can be a good story without resorting to camp.

However, most are just ranting about their own subjective opinion. There are no specifics cited other than, "that's not how Batman is supposed to be," or "if I made Batman," or "Nolan's a hack," or "the real Joker..." without any specifics. These diatribes do not answer the "why," they're just a series of vagaries.

My favorite example of the subjective opinion is to just call a film boring. Well, that says more about the person watching the movie than it does about the movie itself. Why was it boring, because the viewer was tired, it was late, or because he has ADD? Anyway it seems to me that most of the haters are merely voicing their subjective opinion without backing it up with specifics.

Nicholson's Joker was good but yeah, he was playing himself and hams it up quite a bit but was overall a good version and his origin was actually the most faithful to the comics. "EHHHH, what a day, hahahaha." Funny stuff.

I also think that the most important message of Blade Runner is that our humanity is not a given. What makes us human is something that must be gained, or at the very least, can be taken away. We can become something less than animals if we lose the ability to empathize.

"I like him already, hahahahaha."

Classic lines.

Henderson: Our apologies if you dislike anger in your Batman, but the only Batman that wasn't fueled by vengeance was Adam West's. Batman is a dark character.

jdl82, My idea is not about what Batman has or hasn't done in the comics, but rather, an interesting dilemma that could present itself. It's also kinda meta in a way, since Robin was originally introduced into the comics to make Batman more palatable to the kids. It would be bringing up that issue and dealing with its consequences head on. Because once you introduce a kid into the mix, everything changes, especially public perception. Is it child endangerment? Is it mentoring? Positive or negative, it's publicity. And sure, Batman doesn't want either kind of publicity. But maybe in a particular situation, he does use it to his advantage to solve a case or snare a criminal. And it backfires. Badly. It's just a story idea. Heck, maybe even start with Jason Todd, instead of Dick Grayson, and get him killed (and, in a sick way, I also like the idea that Miller introduced that Batman always having a 'Robin' was something to draw attention away from himself, or even to draw gunfire because of the bright colors of the costume.) But again, let me reiterate that I don't think this would have any place in the current trilogy, but if there's more movies done afterwards (when Bats is older) that are following Nolanverse continuity.

Later Robins were homeless kids with street smarts. So I totally agree that Dick Grayson should be forgotten and done away with.

Someone mentioned the Riddler. I think that the only way that the Riddler could ever fit into the Nolanverse would be if he lost the campy costume and became a mere mysterious criminal mastermind who enjoys taunting the authorities via intentionally-left clues. And no reference could ever be made to his real name, which is simply too gimmicky: Edward E. Nigma. Give me a break.

Some obviously young individual mentioned Mr. Freeze. He is an example of a character who was crafted after his gimmicks. And, again, his last name is too ridiculously coincidental to be believeable: Frieze.

Let's hope Dark Knight doesn't pull a "Spidey 3" and try to connect the Joker in any way shape or form to the death of Bruce's parents. Given his apparent age, I don't think they can.

I cannot stress enough how disastrous and laughable it would be to feature any Robin, let alone Dick Grayson.

I think that there is a world of difference between a little boy raised by two loving parents and a long-time street orphan who had to provide for himself from early in his childhood.

And the problem with that is some people when they get scared get irrational. That's why the villans in this universe are so...hmmmmmmm...out there.

Personnally, as you can probably guess, I'm stoked. Thought BB was excellent (first movie in years I went to where people applauded at the end) and am looking apprehensively to TDK.

The crippling of Barbra Gordon (Batgirl) continues to be one of the most mysogynistic acts in comic-book history, made more distasteful that because she's a woman, she apparently doesn't deserve to get the same miraculous recovery that Batman did when he was crippled. Yeah, yeah, I know "Oracle" is an important DC character, blah, blah, blah. That justification is weaker than weak. If Batman can get better from having his back broken, so should Batgirl. ANYONE could take up the mantle as Oracle.

Oh, and Joker's "origin" is simply stupid. A scientist who dreams of being a stand-up? One of the most contrived origins ever written. I suppose The Penguin was a scientist who dreamed of being a Waterfowl, Mr Freeze was a scientist who dreamed of being a Snowdrift, and The Riddler was a scientist who dreamed of being a Game Show Host. I much prefer the simplicity of The Joker going insane over his disfiguremet and blaming Batman for it. All that "brought to the brink of madness and tipped over the edge" nonsense is just deconstructionist masterbation.

Ah, I feel better.

I keed, I keed.

As for Robin, they could probably fit him into the universe if Nolan does six or seven movies. As it is he's focusing on Batman just starting out. Besides, it looks like the films are in a pretty tight time frame. Maybe a trilogy that makes up year one, perhaps? If Nolan does two trilogies (which I doubt will happen) then maybe he can bring in the mentorship and father/son themes. For right now, though, I can guarantee you they will leave Robin out of the picture.

People who havent' read Killing Joke should just download it already. Hell buy it, it's got some of the best artwork I've seen. Brian Bolland rules!!

It was all shot in the "clean" financial district of Chicago? Uhh... except for the parts in the Tibetan mountains, in the cave under Wayne Manor, or maybe in the dirty gutters of the Narrows? Fail.

Somebody, think it was Rickey H made a comment about wanting a little more dark, or "gothic" surroundings and even said: "it doesn't have to be raining in the dark" and yet...it WAS raining, in the dark as batman was hanging off of a building listening on his radio and also when he grabed Gordon's partner and strung him up to threaten him. So, that's a non-issue.

Others complaining that the characters, dialouge, and pacing in Begins was "boring" probably think that a movie where Andy Dufrane and Red talk on the prison yard is "boring"... but they would be wrong then too.

Another poster already covered this, but it isn't all about "fear, vengance, and anger" for Bruce. At the end, remember Gordon (the PERFECT Gordon, as played by Gary Oldman, mind you)tells him he never said thank you and Batman, with all dignity and heroics says: "And you'll never have to." As he says earlier in the film "I am more. There is more to me underneath."

Simply put, your pissing and moaning means little. Begins is widely agreed upon, almost UNIVERSALLY in fact, as the best Batman film yet, and also as one of the best comic/superhero films ever. (for me it's a tie with the original Superman)

TDK looks to be even better, by all images and video released thus far, and all the principal leads and the director of this franchise have my confidence, based on their previous films...including of course, Batman Begins.

Oh wait, that wasn't one of the movies. :p

I henceforth leave this TalkBack with a happy heart and a smile on my face.

I respect your criticisms of Begins because you at least back them up with reasoning.

My point was that a mind dull enough to find the pacing, set-up, and dialouge of Batman Begins "boring" or "bland" without any real reasoning would probably have a hard time with ALOT of quality films that are about mood, setting, and are heavy on dialouge and less on action.

Meantime, my post was to clarify certain issues about the "look" of Begins or the issue of the "Chicago background" that some people had.

Obviously I loved the film, as I said, and I think TDK will be great! But even I know that it ain't gonna be no Shawshank Redemption. (Bale to Freeman: "I can use a man who knows how to get things.") :p

The reason Batman is great is because he changes. This is what people don't understand. If he didn't change then the character would not longer be around because he would have become stagnant and outdated. Besides, not all comics translate directly to film. Sin City is an exception, but look at the atrocity that was 300. Adaptations have to change the source material to be successful. Change is good.

Oh, and watched Batman Begins again......................... .............................. .............................. .............................. .............................. .............................. ............ still the best Batman film to date. Don't hear any good reasons here why it isn't. The Dark Knight will be fantastic. Just that little look from the side that Ledger gives on that second handclap.. chills!