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AICN COMICS REVIEWS LOEG:THE BLACK DOSSIER! SOON I WILL BE INVINCIBLE! ALL STAR BATMAN! INFINITE HORIZON! & MORE!

I Think I Get It by Aquatarkusman	Dec 5th, 2007 07:47:18 AM
Alan Moore is trying to turn into graphic noveldom's answer to Umberto Eco. Either that or he's trying to produce something beyond criticism so he won't have to listen to critics anymore.
2nd! by Psynapse	Dec 5th, 2007 08:41:55 AM
That is all (for now).
Amodeo by toshiro-solo	Dec 5th, 2007 08:44:34 AM
Miller has said from the beginning that ASBARARTBW was set in Dark Knight continuity, which is one of the reasons I haven't been hating it as much as people seem to have. You get the feeling reading DKR that the younger version of that character probably was a cocky, crazy S.O.B. And - yes - DC has already stated that the DKR universe is one of the 52.
Angel: After the Fall. by CatVutt	Dec 5th, 2007 09:06:24 AM
Agree 100%. The art is just atrocious. So much so, that it severely hampers the first reveal of the previously dead character, and the last page splash of the fate of another, COMPLETELY because you simply can't be sure at first who the HELL they are. It's gotta go.
'reader expected to put on 3D glasses'? by newc0253	Dec 5th, 2007 09:07:12 AM
for real? that's batshit insane.
also the review of Angel:ATF is dead-on by newc0253	Dec 5th, 2007 09:13:23 AM
the story is good, but the art is quite honestly the worst i've ever seen in a comic book.
Ed Burn's Dock Walloper by cekma	Dec 5th, 2007 09:17:07 AM
Check it out good stuff, hopefully will be adapted into a film... http://www.virgincomicsstore.c om/edbudowa1.html
Sometimes I think Moore should do work for hire... by rev_skarekroe	Dec 5th, 2007 09:25:35 AM
...for Eros or Verotika. He's really sex-obsessed these days.
ASBAR: I missed the memo by rock-me Amodeo	Dec 5th, 2007 09:28:22 AM
Ah well. Better Nate than lever, or something.
ASBAR did not impress me at all. by Buckys_Kick_Ass_Arm	Dec 5th, 2007 09:30:14 AM
Just purchases Black Dossier but haven't unwrapped it yet. Sounds like it's going to be an interesting read. ANYONE READ THE KILLER? Awesome book!
I wouldn't say BLACK DOSSIER is above criticism by stones_throw	Dec 5th, 2007 09:34:01 AM
It's unfocused and massively self-indulgent and those are valid and relevant criticisms. Basically it's all about Alan Moore's mind without the deftness that PROMETHEA had. Fortunately, Al's mind is an interesting enough place for me to still get something out of it.
But the main thing about Black Dossier is this... by rev_skarekroe	Dec 5th, 2007 09:35:10 AM
...there's a lot of really, really good ideas in there. But instead of just publishing them as pastiche stories or summaries, why not make them into actual, y'know, COMICS. I'm sure the Alan and Mina meets the Beat Poets thing was fun to write (if not read - though I did love Alan and Mina's brief exchange on the subject), but why not take advantage of the graphic medium and SHOW it to us? The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen vs. le Homme Mysterieux would make a smashing comic. Instead we get a three page text synopsis. What's up with that? (On the plus side, annotator Jess Nevins says that we will see a comic of the English League vs. the pre-WWI German League, so at least there's that to look forward to).
So we're back to excuse-making on ASBAR? by stones_throw	Dec 5th, 2007 09:38:16 AM
I thought we'd already gone past that two years or so ago, followed by "it's just awful", followed by getting bored, followed by forgetting all about it. So now we're back to "give it a chance"? Interesting to know.
Robocop 2 by rev_skarekroe	Dec 5th, 2007 09:43:01 AM
I think that's the moment we all realized that maybe Frank Miller wasn't as great as we all thought he was. And if that didn't convince you, Spawn vs. Batman probably did.
SOON I WILL BE INVINCIBLE was a pretty good read by Mr Incredible	Dec 5th, 2007 09:45:19 AM
And I'm sure it won't be long before they option to make it into a movie.
Rev Skarekroe by RenoNevada2000	Dec 5th, 2007 09:47:08 AM
I see your ROBOCOP 2 and raise you ROBOCOP 3.
No, RenoNevada2000... by rev_skarekroe	Dec 5th, 2007 09:48:53 AM
...see I, like most of America, simply ignored Robocop 3 entirely.
rev_skarekroe you make a good point. by Buckys_Kick_Ass_Arm	Dec 5th, 2007 09:54:15 AM
So few of Miller's works are actually interesting to me. I sometimes think he's overhyped
by Shigeru	Dec 5th, 2007 10:23:33 AM
I miss mark bagley
Every Angel fan agree with that Angel:ATF review! by captboulder	Dec 5th, 2007 11:04:56 AM
It took me awhile to figure out who I was looking at! And I agree about the cheap death for Wes, even if it was on the show! Still I feel the story was tight and the 2nd issue will be as good or greater!
Good review of Teen Titans, Rock-Me. by Devil'sOwn	Dec 5th, 2007 11:53:17 AM
I feel the same way about time-travel stories, but the Titans of Tomorrow concept has intrigued me. And the cover art is dazzling. Could somebody at DC please see to it that that becomes Superman's official costume? I know, the current one is a classic. But after 60+ years, doesn't he deserve to wear something other than red shorty-shorts?
"the cheap death for Wes" by newc0253	Dec 5th, 2007 12:02:55 PM
i didn't have a problem with Wes's death, it worked great in the show. i even don't mind the cheat of Spoiler having him return as a ghost, even though it tended to undercut his earlier demise. my biggest problem was that for the first several frames, i was wondering why and how Marcus Hamilton had returned. and Gunn was even worse.
Dear Bug, RE: Countdown Review by Psynapse	Dec 5th, 2007 12:28:58 PM
That was one of the wittiest pieces of criticism (and much deserved by DC if you ask me) I have EVER read. Way to go m'man.
Don't worry, Shig… by The Heathen	Dec 5th, 2007 12:31:43 PM
You can always see Bagley on Mighty Avengers, heh, uhhmm…
Oops! Dear Sleazy: RE: Countdown Review by Psynapse	Dec 5th, 2007 12:31:48 PM
Geez I'm a 'TARD today....(see what happens when I post sober?)
Angel: After the Fall by Psynapse	Dec 5th, 2007 12:33:08 PM
Thank GOD I'm not the only one that thought I'd seen better rendered piles of dog-sick than the art in this book.
No he can't Heath by Psynapse	Dec 5th, 2007 12:37:30 PM
Bagley's gone DC exclusive in 2008. See? http://tinyurl.com/3y7u48
Future Tim Drake = Tough Motherfucker by messi	Dec 5th, 2007 12:46:54 PM
that is one hardcore cunt.
FutureBats(tm) is an ASS by Psynapse	Dec 5th, 2007 01:07:22 PM
Seriously, what kind of fuckwit plays cruel headgames on THEMSELF as a teenager? (Captain Hero of 'Drawn Together' for one. Great company Mr. Drake, way to be)
I managed to read BLACK DOSSIER, I am Batman by rev_skarekroe	Dec 5th, 2007 01:13:59 PM
Read every word of it. Maybe you're just retarded. Have you thought of seeing a doctor?
I am Batman by PVIII	Dec 5th, 2007 01:17:42 PM
Agreed. I love Moore, but liking the Black Dossier is like the fools that love "Southland Tales" - they love the writer and director and the ideas, but the cohesive whole is unwatchable/unreadable.
BLACK DOSSIER isn't unreadable by stones_throw	Dec 5th, 2007 01:28:17 PM
It's not insane throwing-shit-at-the-wall nonsense or anything. There's a lot of ideas in there, and it can be overly dry, but if you have any kind of anttention span and you can get past the use of different voices and styles it shouldn't be hard to understand at all. The "Dossier excerpts" do add a lot to the read, which feels insubstantial if you just read the comic parts first.
Oh? by The Heathen	Dec 5th, 2007 01:30:12 PM
Well, don't worry, Shig, you can always see Bagley on whatever weekly book DC decides to do next, heh, uhhmmm… I'd still like to see Southland Tales, but I'm not sure that I've heard of anyone loving the movie.
Prof. Challenger & Black Dossier by mattb127	Dec 5th, 2007 01:34:56 PM
Great review, or maybe that's just exactly how I felt about it. I don't know if I like it or i don't like it. But it's interesting, which is at least more than I can say for most of the shit out there.
A perfect review of Black Dossier, but... by Zardoz	Dec 5th, 2007 01:37:38 PM
I have to disagree that Moore isn't taking his audience into consideration with it. On the contrary, I think he's always had very high expectations of his audience, and doesn't write "down" to them. He expects that you are literate and have some knowledge of not only comics and literary work, but also form and aesthetic. It is a very dense work, to be sure, and not for those expecting a "Bam! Pow! Zap!" comic book. It's a true literary work, one that deserves serious attention. The basic story of Black Dossier, or much of it, is actually found in the back-up appendix from LOEG2. My favorite character had to be Orlando. I think there's a lot more that could be done with that character in particular. (although the young James Bond was great, too!) There's just so many references that you definitely have to read it more than once. (and is that a bad thing?) I thought it was brilliant, and there was quite a bit that went over my head, but it was very good and like everything else Moore has done, a work of a true genius. And the 3D is amazing!
My own special way... by rock-me Amodeo	Dec 5th, 2007 01:40:47 PM
concur, IAB. I'm not going so far to recommend ASBAR, I'm just upgrading its quality to better than vomit. One may take that for what it's worth. But when it comes to Batman, you would know, because after all, you ARE...well, you know...
this line strikes me as odd: by PVIII	Dec 5th, 2007 01:57:19 PM
"I suspect that most readers, weaned on the simplistic storytelling of over-inflated bosoms and pecs of brightly colored perfect people beating the snot out of each other, will feel they wasted $30 bucks on an incomprehensible pile of crap littered with explicit sex, nudity, and profanity. Most of us do not want to put in the mental effort necessary to appreciate BLACK DOSSIER, but I can’t help but be inexplicably fascinated by it." Hmm. What if you didn't enjoy Black Dossier, because it was a giant wank-off of self-congrajulatory masterbation, but also enjoy intelligent comics? Is this allowed dear sire?
ultimate spider-man=most consistent pleasure by drewlicious	Dec 5th, 2007 02:02:00 PM
Great story, love the characters, but I kind of miss the old artwork. Curious to see how the Osbourne family plays out. My only complaint about the series is that certain classic characters get the shaft. Ultimate Vulture is barely around and I want an Ultimate Mysterio. I know he was presented as a joke earlier but I wouldn't mind seeing a re-imagining. Kudos for rethinking the Gwen Stacy story in the most fucked up way possible, also makes the scorpion more interesting too assuming they'll ever show him again.
That Goddamn Batman by DuncanHines	Dec 5th, 2007 02:04:22 PM
You guys finally get it. I've been saying that since issue 5. It's Frank Miller's Batman. And that Batman has ALWAYS been batshit crazy (sorry about the pun. It fits in more than one way...) This issue definitely cemented that it's Frank's Batman, in the DKU, with the presentation of the Joker. Fucking creepy, man. But that tattoo sucks.
Spider-Man by Etch68	Dec 5th, 2007 02:29:55 PM
What kind of crap are they trying to serve us with this? It's like Crap with a side order of CRAP! Will Aunt May ever freaking die? I am not against his marriage to Mary Jane. It shows that Spidey grew up with the rest of us. Will the memory of his marriage disappear from everyone else? Will Wolverine get his memory back and fix this? Or will he hit on MJ?
My plug for Gargoyles by ballyhoo	Dec 5th, 2007 03:13:16 PM
I've done it before and I'll do it again. If any fans of the Gargoyles cartoon haven't checked out the new comic series, they should as soon as possible. Last week, a spin-off series started. Gargoyles: Bad Guys. Go get it! And get Gargoyles #7 when it comes out probably next week! You won't regret it.
Hey, remember when One More Day was... by Jinxo	Dec 5th, 2007 03:14:05 PM
The I Dream Of Jeannie reunion movie? A true sign of quality when you're recycling a plot from a recycled sitcom. Recycling: it will save our planet. That flick ended with Jeannie making a deal to erase any memory of her, her marriage and her son from everyone's memory in exchange for Major Nelson's life being saved. Funny thing is when they did it there, to characters I only kinda cared about, in a throwaway sort of film, even there I felt it was an annoying inconsiderate shit idea. And that was one where it was just a reunion flick. They could do it without worries about how it would effect "what comes next". They disrespected what went before but it could be ignored. You could ignore it. Not here. No sir. This time the idea will be a big crap that will sit and fester, refusing to be ignored just stinking up the joint. I am a tad annoyed. I should actually thank Joe Q though. Now I can quit buying Spider-Man. Even if the next run is brilliant, I won't know. I refuse to reward Marvel for it's assholery by supporting this title any further. Imagine if DC pulled this. What if after 50 years of courtship and finally getting married DC decided Lois Lane "cramped Superman's style" andretconned out their marriage. DC might be crazy with rewriting stuff but even they know there are some things you just don't dick with.
Really disappointed with ULTIMATES 3 today by George Newman	Dec 5th, 2007 03:54:49 PM
Holy crap the writing is atrocious. It almost read like every other page was removed to save time; it HORRIBLE. There is no opening framing. No Loeb narration (which not every comic needs, but he certainly does) You are just thrown into the action. Really Really BORING action. the Ultimates versus Venom?! Is Loeb serious? what a lame "threat." I've also been hyping myself up for Joe Mad's return, but this felt really lackluster. The colors are muddy, the big pages 2&3 is over the top with cramped perspective. Thor looks like Giant Man, compared to Hawkeye and Stark. Black panther shows up out of nowhere, with zero grand entrance, and then he's knocked into oblivion. How does a hero get punched so hard by VENOM that no one can find him? This is just ridiculous. Which brings me back to the writing. It feels like a juvenile is scripting this thing. I tried writing comics when I was in middle school and they didnt read much worse than this. This is seriously awful, particularly hawkeye.
What was Dan Slott's idea? I don't read INITIATIVE by V'Shael	Dec 5th, 2007 03:54:54 PM
Just asking...
Avengers Initiative Spidey Thing by Jinxo	Dec 5th, 2007 04:05:34 PM
SPOILERS The Initiative has its own trio of Spider-Men called The Scarlet Spiders. The trio was revealed to all be Peter Parker clones (clones of the clone actually). Without permission they publically, in front of the press, put forth the story that Peter was the former 4th member of their group, that in the past they have all taken turns being Spidey, that the powers were in the Spidey suit and they then publically have Peter hand off to them a case that they tell the press contains Peter's suit. So it looks like Peter is "depowered" and from the line of bs they spread around (via chameleon type tech they can all look like any variant of Spidey, including Peter Parker himself)it becomes unclear how often if ever in the past it was Peter behind the Spidey mask.
one more day sucks... by blackthought	Dec 5th, 2007 04:19:24 PM
um, and of coarse the black dossier is readable, it's made of words is it not? words can be read? so hence, it's readable.
Ultimates 3 by rev_skarekroe	Dec 5th, 2007 04:25:32 PM
Yeah, as soon as I read Loeb/Madeuiria (sp?)were the new team I knew I wasn't gonna like this one. Why would you continue a successful series by doing completely the opposite of what made it successful in the first place? Stupid stupid stupid.
The Emerald Imbecile... moron by Lone Fox	Dec 5th, 2007 04:47:23 PM
The bizarre thing is, criticism of All Star Batman is almost entirely based around the ridiculous complaint that Miller has fucked with Fanboydom's(TM) number one guy. Bob Schreck even did an interview recently pointing out that the All Star books were NOT in continuity, but were radical interpretations of the original character concepts. 'Reimagined', if you like. Miller has done this with gusto, while keeping the continuity he set up back in The Dark Knight Returns. THE flat-out most original take on the Bat legend since... well, DKR. Eh, you don't like the writing, fair enough. But that's how FM writes. Don't be surprised. Point is, Miller has not done anything to screw with the character(s). He's done exactly what DC asked him to do. Be original. While I don't mind All Star Superman, it's hardly groundbreaking. In fact, it's quaint. Morrisson had a chance to break new ground, present a Superman no-one had seen before, and he gave us... quaint. It's nice. In a retro, safe kind of way. Frank Miller's had the balls to really let rip with this series. It's not just a good read, it's probably the funniest book out there right now. And great reveal on how 'Robin' came about. But who cares... it's trendy to rag on Miller nowadays. Oh, and ragging on Robocop 2, when the entire planet knows the studio stiffed Miller on the script... now THAT'S lazy writing.
Jinxo by wrx	Dec 5th, 2007 05:08:23 PM
The Scarlet Spiders are clones of MVP. Unfortunately, you can hardly tell by the art.
Ariel Olivetti drawing the new Cable series? by The Heathen	Dec 5th, 2007 05:20:04 PM
Not that I was interested to begin with, but now, I don't even have to bother looking at it. How about Greg Rucka not signing back up with DC exclusively? He sounds irritated by the company at best. Can't say I blame him. Jinxo, sorry, I'm a bit confused about the Scarlet Spider thing in The Initiative. So you're saying they lied about the clones taking turns as Spider-Man or is that real? And if it is or isn't, what's the point of it all? Thanks. ASBAR might be above vomit now (and really, it's probably just vomit now because I'm pretty sure it was complete shit before), but what we really want to know is how many "Goddamn's" there were in the book. I do have a drinking game to keep up with you know. I had to have my stomach pumped last time from alcohol poisoning.
Actually, Jinxo and wrx, you're both right. by SleazyG.	Dec 5th, 2007 05:22:59 PM
The Scarlet Spiders are all clones of MVP...who used the chameleon tech in their suits to make it appear as if Peter was one of them and a rejected Initiative member. Identity re-closeted for Peter in a matter of seconds, no muss, no fuss.
Fanboydom? by The Heathen	Dec 5th, 2007 05:31:02 PM
Yeah, you can keep that ™, I don't think we'll be needing it. Thanks for that post though. It was one of the funniest things I've read on here in a while and that's saying something. How bizarro it was. Thanks again.
Dammit! by Jinxo	Dec 5th, 2007 05:45:19 PM
I knew I was off by one. Your right, from the art it looked to me like it they were Peter. MVP makes sense. Bottom line is the gimmick to fix the secret ID is simpler and more elegant than a full reboot of everything. But then that wouldn't zap the marriage, would it?
I can appreciate ASBAR... by loodabagel	Dec 5th, 2007 06:39:27 PM
In the sense that it's just a crazy goddamn maniac trainwreck and it only comes out avery five months or so. If this shipped on time, I couldn't stand to read it. Not buy, mind you, read. Whenever an issue comes out, I think "Hmm... Whatever shall that whimsical Miller man come up with this time?" I thought he couldn't get any better than alcoholic Mrs. Gordon from issue 6, but then came seven! "We keep the masks on. It's better that way." I think it was this moment that I knew that uh... Okay, Frank Miller is off his fucking rocker. At this point, we're watching an artist spiral towards dementia. Happy Hunting Frank. Oh PS-Evel Kneivel is dead. He was a d-bag. Good riddance.
re: Miller - For the record... by rock-me Amodeo	Dec 5th, 2007 06:39:32 PM
I have no idea what is trendy. Ask anyone. Look at my ubiquitous pocket screwdriver that I keep next to my pen in my shirt pocket, and you will know that I'm the least trendy person that anyone knows. I can also state pretty confidently that I have no idea what the rest of the planet knows. What I CAN tell you is that if I think something sucked, I'll say that. And if I think something didn't suck quite as hard, I'll say that too. If Miller got hosed on Robocop and I didn't know, my bad. If someone likes Miller, that's cool. But if someone wants to dispute why I don't like this run of issues, when I have bagged and boarded copies of every Daredevil he ever farted near, that's just moronic, emerald or otherwise.
Ultimate Spider-Man... by loodabagel	Dec 5th, 2007 07:52:07 PM
That was really good. Why are we talking about Batman instead? There was a time when I almost dropped Ultimate Spidey. (issue 60-something.) These days, it looks like I might drop his 616 counterpart. After nearly a decade of reading, this is it. The final straw. The whole shebang. Whatever. I am giving Dan Slott exactly one issue to knock me out of my socks and ontl my ass. If he doesn't deliver, I'm done for the foreseeable future. Maybe even forever. The company that I used to love so much has really fucked up this time. If rededisgning a robot's paint job fora movie people knew was going to suck is childhood rape, then this must be childhood skull-fucking, burning alive and jerkin off on the ashes.
The Initiative by Ambush Bug	Dec 5th, 2007 07:53:06 PM
Just in case V'Shael is still confused about the Slott fix, here's a quick rundown of what happened in last issue of The Initiative. A trio of criminals dressed in Vulture suits abduct a briefcase filled with sensitive information about Gamma Bombs. The Scarlet Spiders, three mysterious members of the Initiative who wear suits identical to the Spidey Armor Tony Stark gave Peter Parker during Civil War, swing into action. Peter notices the mele between the three Vultures and three Spiders, decides enough is enough and intervenes. The Scarlet Spiders are told not to go public, the Spiders show an inner sense of good and jump into action, although Peter is leery of them. The Initiative operatives tell the Spiders to apprehend the fugitive Parker, but they go against their orders and attempt to prove themselves to Peter who doesn't believe them to be heroic at all. Using the Spidey Armor tech, which has been seen to duplicate the different Spider-Man costumes, the Scarlet Spiders finish the fight in three different versions of Spider-Man's costume (the classic, the black&white, and the Stark Armor). Peter retrieves the suitcase with the Gamma Bomb info and hands it over to the Spiders as an act of faith. The Spiders then all chameleon into an image of Parker, stating that he was returning it to the authorities and announce to the gathered newspaper and television reporters that there have been four Spider-Men in the past and that the powers came from the suit, not the person. They said to the press that the suitcase which housed the Gamma Bomb info had another SPider-Man costume in it and thanked Peter for handing over the costume, leading the media to question if Peter was actually Spider-Man or if he was just holding the suit. The main thing this did was cast doubt in the press and leaving them questioning if Parker was ever Spider-Man in the first place. Cut to reactions from the press and JJJameson who all of a sudden questions who it was that unmasked themselves on national TV since the Spidey suit's chameleon tech made it look like there were four Peter PArker stadning there on national tv. The story ends with the Initiative bigwigs pissed off at the Spiders for not apprehending Parker and the Spiders taking off their masks to reveal that they are actually clones of MVP, an Initiative member who died in the first issue. It's a comic booky way of doing it, but my annoyance with the whole thing is that Spidey has been umnasked before numerous times and comic book conventions have always saved his ass. I remember when he was caught snapping shots for his WEBS book (a McFarlaine issue) in the costume kissing MJ without his mask and had to explain it to his everyone. Spidey explained it away in one issue. Now it's some kind of story that has to take years to fix. That type of thing used to happen once a year (Raimi even did it well in SPIDER-MAN 2). But Millar prances in and writes an issue and Joey Q gets ahold of the media and all of a sudden it's revolutionary comic booking.
Joe Q is casting himself as Mephisto in his own story by TallBoy66	Dec 5th, 2007 08:16:44 PM
Jesus, subtle, eh? Even JMS doesn't want this. However, I must say, even though the storyline is ham-fisted and awkward and fairly stupid ("I want...your MARRIAGE! MUHA-HA-HA-HA-HAAA!!"), I do buy the fact that Peter and MJ would sacrifice their love to save Aunt May. It feels right for them to do that, because they would to save a life. Easy. But the story itself is pretty gawdawful. On the flipside, it'll be pretty easy to reset the reset button if magic in inovled, eh?
Three words: "no...more...marriage!" by rock-me Amodeo	Dec 5th, 2007 08:22:20 PM
Rats.
Sigh...the ASBAR thing is... by stones_throw	Dec 6th, 2007 02:06:30 AM
We were told the ALL STAR line would be about the iconic versions of the characters (hence ALL STAR SUPERMAN). Not the balls-out, adults-only, acclaimed-writer-hacking-it-ou t-and-being-allowed-to-do-so version. DC were saying it was an alternative to kids who couldn't get into the main lines (just like Marvel's ULTIMATE...really that should suggest there's something wrong with the main lines). Nothing could be further from what ASBAR is. It's just Frank Miller crapping on the fans and DC being too scared to call him on it. Save that for FRANK MILLER'S the HACK KNIGHT RETURNS (see what I did there?), not ALL STAR BATMAN AND ROBIN THE BOY WONDER. A five page spread of cars? Months between issues? This isn't good stuff, people. (And yes, I know A-SSMAN is late too. Shove it.) Apparently DC tried to get Paul Dini first, but he turned it down, and it looks like Frank Miller can be paid enough to take a dump on an afternoon every few months or so. Anyway, the REAL thing is that it's lazy dogshit, but never mind...
I Harrassed Alan Moore Whilst He Was Shopping! by IAmMrMonkey!	Dec 6th, 2007 03:30:40 AM
It was so embarrassing now I think of it. The poor guy just wanted to buy some food and I was there blabbering about how much I loved his work. He didn't seem impressed. But I didn't mind.
Actually A-S Bats ISN'T Frank Miller's Batman by DevilCat	Dec 6th, 2007 09:58:52 AM
Frank Miller's Batman, as shown in DKR and Year One, was a bad ass, but he was a decent human being with redeeming qualities. In Year One, Bruce Wayne was an idealist. Remember him pulling the thug off the fire escape to keep him from falling to his death (with the narration box saying "I'm No Killer")? Even in DKR, the older more cynical, Batman wouldn't kill Joker. Similarly, in both Year One and DKR, Miller's Batman was seen as someone who treated children with caring and deference. Of course, Miller (or his apologists) could claim that this is his current take on Batman (not his 20 year old take). And that would be a valid defense. However, Miller has also made it clear, on a number of occasions, that A-S Batman is supposed to be his version of "Batman Year Two", a direct sequel to "Year One" and a prequel (if you will) to DKR. Accordingly, basic rules of good writing require the author to keep his characterization consistent from story to story. Miller hasn't done that here and, as a result, his writing is a failure.
DevilCat by Shigeru	Dec 6th, 2007 11:04:21 AM
FTW!
looda by Shigeru	Dec 6th, 2007 11:07:47 AM
You've been bitching about how 616 spider-man sucks balls for like years now, and you still buy it?? Wtf dude just let go already, or are you rich?
Mark Bagley @ DC by Shigeru	Dec 6th, 2007 11:09:34 AM
Great. Can't wait to have him drawing some book I couldn't give 3 shits about.
QUAD POST OF EPICTUDE by Shigeru	Dec 6th, 2007 11:13:00 AM
um... wait I can't think of anything to write.
DevilCat by The Heathen	Dec 6th, 2007 11:53:08 AM
FTW! Indeed. Great post.
Looda by The Heathen	Dec 6th, 2007 12:03:07 PM
I recall you not liking Evel Kneivel, but I forget the tale. Refresh my memory.
Criminal by The Heathen	Dec 6th, 2007 12:06:17 PM
Just Finished the Lawless story and damn this book is good.
Watch it Shig.... by Psynapse	Dec 6th, 2007 12:09:05 PM
SOME of us are actually quite excited to see how 'The Bags' breathes life into a DC book. (Let's just hope it's one that doesn't suck, which, admittedly is the minority for BOTH of the Big 2 these days)
(Elvis voice) by DevilCat	Dec 6th, 2007 12:14:00 PM
Thankyavermuch...thankya
Psynapse speaks the truth… by The Heathen	Dec 6th, 2007 12:20:17 PM

Oh and about Moore & Promethea.... by Psynapse	Dec 6th, 2007 12:23:12 PM
I have to disagree with the above review's assessment. I'm pretty sure Promethea was Moore's 'version' (NOT a pejorative term here so don't start) of a 4 color indoctrination into mysticism in much the same manner that 'The Invisibles' was Grant Morrison's. In all seriousness, I challenge ANYONE who has read Promethea to do some genuine research on the mystical 'facts' that the characters reference throughout the story. You'll find a source for EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Hell, he even included the abyss in the sephiroth which originally was an 11th sphere (and which some cuneiform writings say may very well have been Tiamat which along with Nibiru are the 2 'missing' planets in our solar system, SIDE NOTE: Supposedly, 1/2 of Tiamat is the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter, the other 1/2 is the Earth and the Moon).
Infinite Horizon by The Heathen	Dec 6th, 2007 02:19:46 PM
I recently discovered Phil Noto as an artist and really like his work a lot, but I think I'm going to wait for the trade for that particular story. It seems like something that would go down easier in one sitting as well as being able to reflect upon it immediately instead of having just one issue to read monthly, if that makes sense. I think it did.
(Let's just hope it's one that doesn't suck, which, admittedly i by Shigeru	Dec 6th, 2007 03:44:17 PM
that's exactly what I meant. Odds are he'll be put on fucking Blue Beetle or Booster Gold or something... >_
son of a b by Shigeru	Dec 6th, 2007 03:44:47 PM
subject was suppsed to read: (Let's just hope it's one that doesn't suck, which, admittedly is the minority for BOTH of the Big 2 these days)
weird by Shigeru	Dec 6th, 2007 03:45:21 PM
I can't do > _
test by Shigeru	Dec 6th, 2007 03:45:41 PM

ok by Shigeru	Dec 6th, 2007 03:46:14 PM
apparently you can't type a less-than sign in TBs...
Less than symbol by Jinxo	Dec 6th, 2007 04:02:45 PM
The talkback likely sees the less than sign as you starting an html command. They always start with a less than and end as a greater than sign. So it probably sees the less than and goes, "Don't print that and get ready to execute what comes next".
BUT you can do this! by Psynapse	Dec 6th, 2007 04:13:48 PM
>_* But that would make you too much like me so don't.
Bagley by The Heathen	Dec 6th, 2007 04:56:12 PM
I think I read that he was going to be featured prominently on whatever book DC is going to have that's out every week because they are going to stick with a weekly book and Bagley can meet his deadlines better than most people in the industry. This is either good or bad. It's already good from an artistic POV, considering most of the art in Countdown is amateurish at best. 52 had it's hits and misses, but it did have a few Phil Jimenez issues and the majority of the other artist were good. If Bagley is on art and the writer(s) don't suck it up then it could be the best weekly series from DC yet, but right now I obviously don't have confidence in that considering the dreck Countdown is. Put Johns, Morrison, Waid and Rucka back as the writing team and I think it would work again.
"the best weekly series from DC yet" by Shigeru	Dec 7th, 2007 09:45:17 AM
that's like saying "I got kicked in the nuts, then lit on fire... but hey this stabbed in the face with a screwdriver thing isn't half bad!"
and don't call me bitter or cynical... by Shigeru	Dec 7th, 2007 09:47:26 AM
because I'm effing right.
If it's a weekly from DC.... by Psynapse	Dec 7th, 2007 10:18:09 AM
It'll probably suck.
hmm... by blackthought	Dec 7th, 2007 11:04:36 AM
can we at least consider the sweet beard of yours bitter or cynical shig? i just don't envision a happy beard with the horrible snow we ppl who get that sort of stuff have right now.
Snow is God's punishment by Psynapse	Dec 7th, 2007 12:03:05 PM
Repent NOW sinner!
Ultimates 3 by Bluejack	Dec 7th, 2007 01:46:57 PM
Why don't they just make the book X rated and have the Black Widow and Stark boning, and Wanda and Pietro as well. What a piece of crap. I want my money back.
You're bitter and cynical. by The Heathen	Dec 7th, 2007 01:57:24 PM
52 was a good series when all was said and done. Not great, but good and an interesting experiment for the comic medium. Countdown is the bizarro 52. It's got second tier writers, even worse artists AND it's more expensive than 52 was. You like Bagley and don't hate everything from DC, so me saying that this weekly series from DC (out of the three so far) could be the best (depending on writers and it's purpose of being weekly of course), then why couldn't it be good? What's wrong with wishing something to be good? If it sucks I'll say it sucks like Countdown, but if it's decent then what's the harm. I guess I'd just like for things to work out. When I go see a movie, I always hope that it's going to be good. I don't intentionally see bad movies. I didn't go into Transformers thinking, "I can't wait to see this fucking atrocious piece of shit movie!!!" You feel me, Cog Smooch? I view comics the same way.
Who's the black widow in Ultimates 3? by Laserhead	Dec 7th, 2007 02:17:10 PM
Since the last one was given a champagne bottle lobotomy and offed by Hawkeye? Don't make me buy it, just share, please.
Same Black Widow that died by Jinxo	Dec 7th, 2007 02:24:10 PM
The sex scene is via a video tape from before the booze went to her head. And that book does suck. It's like... The Ultimates Melrose Place except not done with half the intellegence of the actual Melrose Place. And, yeah I know, not like that show was a work of genius in the first place.
Thanks Jinxo by Laserhead	Dec 7th, 2007 02:30:51 PM
Even more depressing than I'd imagined.
well what did you guys expect? by Shigeru	Dec 7th, 2007 03:48:58 PM
Jeph Loeb (who's rep has been coasting on his previous work with Tim Sale) and Joe Mad (seriously?)
52 was not good. by Shigeru	Dec 7th, 2007 03:57:04 PM
I only read like 10 issues of 52, but out of that I liked maybe 1/5 of it. Certainly not enough to keep spending an eventual $156 on the damn thing. If you feel like you got your money's worth then that's cool, I just didn't like it. And if I'm bitter and cynical... well I'm just going by a track record here. DC proper has very few books that interest me, and it's been that way for a good while. So when a great artist announces he's DC exclusive, and will most likely be put on a big(er) book (because he's a big[er] name), and I haven't liked a big(er) book from DC for like, ever.... well run-on sentence aside, you can see where I'm going. Of course I'll be happy if the book Mark Bagley draws is good. But I will be SURPRISED. Because if you get shit served to you 9 times out of 10, you start EXPECTING SHIT. You feel me? ;) I don't ever (probably) wish something to be bad. That's just silly. I would just rather not get my hopes up unless what I see really gets me going.
my beard by Shigeru	Dec 7th, 2007 03:58:03 PM
is complex. and has many emotions.
SNOW by Shigeru	Dec 7th, 2007 03:58:57 PM
it snowed a bunch here. then it got ASS-COLD. which made the snow harden into this ice-fuck-mess. yuck.
Besides All Star Supes… by The Heathen	Dec 7th, 2007 04:12:59 PM
What other 'big name' DC book are you reading? Detective, Action, Batman, JSA, JLA, Green Lantern? Those are my favorites from DC, but a lot of those other titles have gotten really freakin horrible and I have no problem not bothering with the likes of Birds of Prey or Blue Beetle or Shadowpact or The All New Atom thankfully. It's kind of refreshing. Anyways, just curious to your readings as of late. And hey, it's almost cold here in Florida so maybe I can finally read that copy of Blankets I have huh? ; )
52... by blackthought	Dec 7th, 2007 08:26:26 PM
i enjoyed...much more than the horrid snow...also i miss starman.
I feel your icy beard, shigeru by rock-me Amodeo	Dec 8th, 2007 11:25:34 AM
Of course, I'm feeling it as my own beard glistens slightly with sweat, having come in from doing some yard work in shorts in a balmy 76 degrees. What can I say? I love living in North Florida...
I had to walk to work once in a blizzard by Shigeru	Dec 9th, 2007 11:00:01 AM
there were literally ice chunks hanging off my beard when I got in....
non-vertigo DC books I read by Shigeru	Dec 9th, 2007 11:01:50 AM
All-Star Supes... um... Simon Dark... um.. that's all folks!
proof that I'm not bitter. by Shigeru	Dec 9th, 2007 11:04:09 AM
OMEGA THE UNKOWN is one of the best comic books I've read in a long time. Only 3 issues in and it's created this insane intricate mysterious world... necklaces and books bonding to people's chests.... eff. This comic is amazing.
Ultimates 3 by arrangedletters	Dec 9th, 2007 02:20:10 PM
I just needed to comment on how fucking bad this was also. Everyone made most of the valid points. Mine is if Quicksilver was moving at the same speed as the bullet why would it go through his hand? That was some serious crap...just so bad.
Wait, what? by Freddie Mercury	Dec 9th, 2007 04:06:37 PM
Someone is excited to see Peter Bagley draw something? WTF? He's one of Marvel's worst artists. Never drawn an attractive female in his life. Every face he draws looks exactly the same.
Why the bullet went thru Quicksilver's hand by Freddie Mercury	Dec 9th, 2007 04:07:06 PM

Why the bullet went thru Quicksilver's hand: by Freddie Mercury	Dec 9th, 2007 04:08:54 PM
magic bullet. Didn't you look at it? Clearly a tech bullet. It made a turn at a right angle. Clearly not a normal bullet. But yeah, Ultimates 3= pretty sucky.
Yeah, it's true, freddie: Peter Bagley stinks... by rock-me Amodeo	Dec 10th, 2007 08:32:36 AM
...but his brother, MARK Bagley, is an excellent artist. Ultimate Spiderman didn't become the darling of Marvel just for the writing...
Yeah, duh, I meant Mark... by Freddie Mercury	Dec 10th, 2007 08:41:34 AM
and he stinks. Are you kidding? I stand by my original statement. Marvel's gonna make him follow Frank Cho? Gee, do you think readership of Mighty Avengers is going to go up? Or down?
Fred by Shigeru	Dec 10th, 2007 10:09:05 AM
loved your band. sorry about the dying thing. but I gotta respectfully call you dumb. bagley's been around since forever and the dude's practically a modern marvel legend. dude churned out 110 issues of a book everyone was sure was gonna fail, and helped make it a best seller. your implication that putting mark bagley on a book will hurt its sales is laughable. "ha." -- see, that's me laughing. but seriously, bagley's a great sequential artist.
If you think Cho's better than Bagley... by SleazyG.	Dec 10th, 2007 11:43:25 AM
...you should probably just avoid Marvel entirely and subscribe to LADY DEATH or PURGATORI or something. I mean, Cho's no Jim Silke or even Jim Balent or Joseph Michael Linsner...
Omega the Unknown by The Heathen	Dec 10th, 2007 12:03:32 PM
You mean the new one right? Is it really three issues in already? Is that a mini or ongoing? I can't see Marvel having that be an ongoing. I read the first issue of Simon Dark and liked it. I haven't continued to get it because I'm trying to cut back, but hopefully it's turning out well. Sleazy, thanks for that post. I enjoyed that.
Yeah, Shig... by Freddie Mercury	Dec 10th, 2007 09:03:28 PM
Love all those Mario games. And Donkey Kong and Zelda. Genius. Gasp, someone doesn't love the Ultimate universe? And that someone is absolutely wrong about his opinion about art because of dollars? Wow, where'd I get this silly idea that appreciation of art is subjective? I guess I'm all wrong, I should be listening to Garth Brooks, he's sold like a billion albums. You're right, I must be dumb, I don't like the same artist you like. And SleazyG. is right, Cho is just another titty artist like Steven Hughes who has no experience drawing and writing a series that lasted hundreds of issues. You both really got me there. Thanks for setting me straight.
ha by Shigeru	Dec 11th, 2007 09:35:32 AM
good one about the nintendo stuff. But for the record, YOU brought up sales. "Gee, do you think readership of Mighty Avengers is going to go up? Or down?"
ok WTF by Shigeru	Dec 11th, 2007 09:40:15 AM
about 3/4 of what I wrote got deleted. I'll sum up: sales: you brought it up. It's a lot different than saying "I don't like Mark Bagley's art", because one statement is subjective and the other is not. "Every face he draws looks exactly the same." - simply not true. Meanwhile I'm flipping through Cho's mighty avengers and am seeing a lot of females who look exactly the same but with different haircuts/styles. and lastly (and the most weird that you'd bring up): "Never drawn an attractive female in his life." -- I guess not if you prefer impossibly-proportioned women sticking their g-stringed asses out of every other panel. And take a look at the USM issue where Black Cat and Electra fight for the entire time. Yeah.
The Heather by Shigeru	Dec 11th, 2007 09:42:23 AM
Omega is going to be a 12 issue maxi(?)-series. It says "1 of 12", ect. on the issue. BUY THEM. The 2nd ish of Simon Dark wasn't as good as the 1st, but I'm giving it a chance...
Heh. Shigeru... by rock-me Amodeo	Dec 12th, 2007 01:42:47 AM
...brought his A-Game. And apparently, "A" stands fer ass-whoopin'. Cool beans.
Heh, cool beans… by The Heathen	Dec 12th, 2007 09:13:11 AM
makes more sense than you know. ; ) I'm going to assume that the subject line was misspelled for your sake and maybe I'll pick up the issues of Omega the Unknown or probably just buy the trade when it comes out. Do you read Mighty Avengers, Shig or just flip through it while preparing talkback retorts? I'm inclined to think the latter, but I was sincere with the question. Vale?
shush, Heather. XD by Shigeru	Dec 12th, 2007 09:54:12 AM
I skipped an ish of Mighty Avengers but I try to pick it up if I see it in the shop. Thanks, rock-me! :) LAST
No… by The Heathen	Dec 12th, 2007 12:50:51 PM
Eye am LAST…

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