By the way, I respect all of you.

It's about the writer's strike, Vern.

Now get up and go to work. That garbage ain't gonna collect itself.

i kinda got the impression that some folk (writers) were sending some other folk (network execs) pencils, but why'd you want to send pencils to execs? don't the writers need the pencils?

it's not like sending nuts to save jericho or mars bars to save veronica mars. those were intelligible. this is just confusing.

p.s. go strike!

Look at what shows are rated highest and what fucktarded movies make all kinds of money, and you'll find that 90% of the viewing public ARE total morons...

"Every day they show reruns it just becomes more of a reminder that there are much better things to do with ones time..."

True.

and to make the example more relevant to the issue at hand, if the person you sold it to stood to make an extra £10 million by selling it on the internet, and your existing contract gave you nothing for internet sales, wouldn't you hold out for more money too?

the writer/producers of Lost are well-paid and deservedly so. but why shouldn't they be entitled to a share of the internet sales? what bizarro logic says that it's okay if a network or a studio to make gazillions but somehow writers are supposed to be selfless and poor?

Now, a month or so later, people are starting to say, "Hey, wait a minute! If I were a caterer or costumer or cameraman, I'd be having a pretty shitty XMas right about now... These writers are being selfish pricks!"

I'll support the writers when I see them supporting the idea that ALL the creative contributors to a show/film get residuals. There's no reason a writing team should get Internet money when the majority of the creative people who bring their story to life don't get the same residuals. Give the foley artists residuals for every time their sound effects are heard in Internet reruns! Give the makeup artists residuals for every time we see how well they cover up Steve Carell's pimples and pale skin! Give the set designers residuals for making the whole damned backdrop of the writers' story exist in the first place!!! THOSE are creative contributions, too, and to downplay those contributions while calling the writers the most important part of any show is just a fucking insult.

I seriously don't see any writers supporting the notion that anyone else should get residuals... They're watching their own backs and asking everyone to help them get what they want.

If this were a factory workers' strike, the factory would be calling in substitute workers about now, because there are lots of people out there who could use a job, and it's a travesty that the privileged ones who are lucky enough to have those jobs don't have the integrity to DO them without whining about a few more coins in their purse... Especially when their greed is depriving other people of ANY money this holiday season.

To rephrase, the actor is not free if the show is still shooting, or he is still being paid in full, or he is in the 5 weeks of allowed half-pay. Even with the show not shooting, many stars will still get paid in full. The only other out, is if the star and the producers work out a deal to free the actor up.

So, with all this in mind, I say it's officially time to bring in the scabs. And for any producers or studio execs that might be reading this, if you're interested in hiring a non-union writer, please contact me at SpyGuy4M@aol.com.

http://tinyurl.com/2u5727

http://tinyurl.com/2qfyx9

http://tinyurl.com/2er8rn

Keep on striking because there's no way it's going to affect the greatest show in the history of television - I LOVE NEW YORK 2!

For all of you who can't seem to make sense of what is happening in the world of entertainment (which yes, can be *very* different from the world that you are used to.)

And Zero, get off your stupid high horse, before I send Equinas after you. Why don't you try answering the questions posed by Prof. Pop-Cult and myself from the *last* TB?

It is also interesting that again the focus is being placed on DVD residuals, which the WGA actually offered to take off the table prior to the strike. What the writers care about is the concept of getting paid for content on the internet. There are not many people who after having sat through ads or paid $1.99 to ITunes would begrudge some of that revenue rolling back to the writers, but that is being swept aside for the DVD issue, which will get less public support, because it is to do with a pay increase vs getting any pay at all.

The suits manipulating the media to their end is to be expected, the writers being naive and unable to compete on that level is also to be expected, what is so disheartening is how many people on this site are siding with the entities that are responsible for the current state of TV and Movies produced in America.

I think you answered your own question a bit, there. Some folks rally to these seemingly superficial causes because they feel overwhelmed by the larger issues in the world (the war, etc) and that this is an arena where their efforts to create change might actually have an effect.

That said, there's plenty of time in the day, on the individual level, to save vampire shows *and* help little old ladies up the stairs.

or, in other words, chill.

Now, if I tell someone to write a novel, they could give me War and Peace or Harry Potter or something horribly worse, like I wrote it. You cannot quantify writing in the same way that a specific task is performed because the result is much different. Writing is a creative entity. Fixing my faucet is not. Sure, some people are better plumbers than others. But while I can mention numerous pieces of fiction that have inspired people, I can't think of one plumber who has inspired people. (Except for Mario. But really, when has he actually plumbed ANYTHING at all?)

Then, to make matters worse, the studios grab something out of a union-busting playbook and deliberately break the media blackout that *both* sides had agreed to in an attempt to divide and conquer the Guild from within. They leaked that a "deal was almost in place" and "showrunners would be going back to their non-writing duties" and people get thier hopes up *RIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS*, for fuck sakes, then they lay a tremendous pile of crap on the table and say, "Here." Meanwhile, the Guild look like heartleass bastards for not wanting to thank them for said pile of crap, and then they laugh and gleefully chest bump, "It's working! I just saw the AICN talkback and it was AWESOME!!"

And frankly, I don't think people understand that The WGA didn't go into this strike lightly. They knew it would be hard and unpopular with the public and yes, they could of waited until the SAG contracts were up this summer to form a truly unified front. But the studios would have ordered a stockpile of scripts before that time and it would have lessened the impact of the demands. It's called *leverage*. And it is used in this thing they have now called "business" ( I know, I know: the entertainment industry is out to make *money*! I was shocked when I first heard, I tell you; completely SHOCKED.)

Now the writers are getting shit upon because they were "FIRST!", they took away my TV shows, you bastards, they make more money than me, besides I could *do* what they do any day of the week, twice on Sunday and for god's sake won't somebody think of the *Children*! and it's all dissemination because it comes down to corporate conglomerations doling out unfair wages to their employees.

One other point I'd like to make - and it's probably not a biggie, but I thought it a profound alliance - is that when the Service Industry Union marched with the writers (Hey! Are those Teamsters?? Those *are* Teamsters!!), and put up billboards asking the studio to "Do the write thing!", the writers came out in full force to march along side of those people during their own strike that is happening simultaniously. If you have a problem with Unions in a general sense, that is your opinion and it may be vaild, but I find it hard to blame the writers for using their existing union's rights to demonstrate.·

http://tinyurl.com/2xuvmx

if you got a problem with lots of people being laid off because there's nothing in production, why not blame the people actually firing them?

oh wait, it's okay for studios to keep their money, right? because we all understand that studios aren't charities. funny how talkbackers have no problem with studios acting out of commercial self-interest, huh?

seriously, some of you anti-strike folk are so clueless, it's a wonder you remember how to breath.

WGA lost my support the second they went on strike. They won't get it back until they end it. I don't give a shit about the shows, I care about the people who don't get residual checks (yep, the writers are being paid right now while they're on strike. pretty nice setup, huh?) I said it above and I'll say it now: the writers are striking so they can collect bigger residuals checks the next time they strike.

Because stagehands aren't 'creators'. For a site run by a bunch of supposedly liberal people, they are nothing but a bunch of cultural elitists.

The tag line of this site reads "The best in movie, TV, DVD, and comic book news." I don't see the word "Broadway" in there.

yes, because you'd otherwise expect AICN and Coax to be covering theatre reviews, right?

otherwise some nice trolling though, crth.

My point was simple: they could've supported both, but were afraid to because it would've exposed the sham that is the writer's strike, or as I have started calling it: Writers Strike: A Hollywood Production.

You'll also note Herc and Harry still link to DVDs even though buying them now shows support for the studios instead of the writers (if you support the writers, wait until the strike ends and the new contract goes into effect before buying them). AICN talks the talk, but they don't walk the walk.

See, THAT'S trolling. Loser.

I don't question the writers' contribution, or the fact that they deserve a decent slice of the pie. I debate the fact that the writers seem to be on this "We're the most important part of the show" kick, and it's pretty insulting to people who pour their imagination, heart, and soul (not to mention actual physical labor) into such things as costumes, makeup, special effects, and sets. None of the writers' ideas would mean a damned thing if the rest of the creative team weren't there to bring them to life.

But in Hollywood, there's this annoying sense that if you're not a writer, director, producer, or actor, then you're not part of the creative team. You're one of the little people that make less money, do more work, and are JUST AS CREATIVE as the other "Big Four" positions.

I am a (non-WGA) writer. I've also spent time designing sets, directing theatre, doing make-up and foley work, composing music, and doing all sorts of post-production knob-twiddling. Granted, I'm not in Hollywood. . . But if I were part of the WGA, that would be the ONLY one of the creative jobs listed above that would somehow warrant residuals from various distribution methods. How is that fair?

When the other members of the creative team get the salaries they deserve, then I'll support the writers in their grab for a piece of the Internet distro pie. At this point, I don't support ANYBODY except the "little guy" who, once this is all over, will humbly go back to work at the studios and turn the two-dimensional ideas of a team of sitcom writers into a three-dimensional reality with their own creativity, sweat, and effort... And they won't get a penny more than they're getting paid for the days' work.

I just hope that Tina Fey thinks of this the next time a group of makeup artists and costumers use their own creative skills to make her look good on TV. She's going to get extra cash just for saying something witty. What do they get for making it possible for her to face an audience or carry off her joke?

Good luck, and all that, but don't get your head so far up your own rectum that you can't see that writers are NOT the cream of the creative crop. Any person with ideas and a dictionary can write, despite what you may think. It may not always be good, but then neither is the stuff on TV. . . But can YOU (or any of the writers you know) make Alec Baldwin look less puffy or blotchy on camera? Can you design a set that looks like a real office or city street? Can you convincingly create the sound of vomit hitting another person without it being too gross, and having the comedy note it requires to carry off the joke intended by the writers? Can you make a shirt that will flatter Jim Belushi? Can you edit a scene to make Jimmy Fallon's lack of acting skill not show as much?

I hope the writers get their money-- And then I hope they prove me wrong by INSISTING that every other member of the creative team gets some of the residuals, too.

I don't think that's unreasonable, and I certainly don't see that as "supporting the studios."

Except for this whole 'linking to Amazon' hypocrisy. I'll continue to bitch about that.

but seriously, 'they could have covered both'?

why exactly?

most members of the WGA get paid sweet fuck all because most of them don't have steady work.

yes, if you get to the top of the greasy pole in hollywood you can make a decent amount of money. but that's true of plenty of professions, not just writers.

by your nobel-prize winning logic, that struggling actor serving you coffee in a diner is a member of an 'elitist group' just because julia roberts makes 20 million per movie.

the writers strike is about basic fairness: just because some tv writers are well-paid doesn't mean it is somehow unfair for the WGA as a whole to strike for a fairer deal, especially at a time when the entire medium is shifting to internet-delivery.

as for the makeup wizards and the foley masters, they've got unions of their own. maybe they support the WGA or maybe they don't. but if they don't, they should, because unless the writers get a fairer deal, they're all out of work too.

and this 'oh the writers are being selfish' schtick is just so much bullshit. i don't know whether the foley artists have a good thing going or whether they're just one of a number of groups the studios screw in the ass on a regular basis, but the idea that the writers should somehow subordinate their reasonable demands to everyone else's welfare is just self-serving shite.

yes, let's all pity the plight of the poor, non-unionized worker who forgoes the collective bargaining power of their colleagues, strikes it own on their own, and then ends up getting screwed. boo hoo poor them.

as for the writers apparently suggesting they're the sole creative force in the industry, i've never heard or seen anyone claim that. of course, maybe you think they shouldn't be playing up their importance during a strike? yeah, that seems like a great slogan: 'don't pay us more, we're not really that essential'??? the rest of your post makes no fucking sense whatsoever. you concede that the writers 'are fighting for something they have a right to' but then criticise them for ... fighting for it? how else does a union level its demands? harsh language? a strongly-worded letter of protest?

http://tinyurl.com/yq5fyp

AKA if you haven't seen it yet a short on Youtube called "New Media Douchebags".

and you can't tell me that in 2007 there's no union available for folk working in the film industry in some capacity or other. if you are, please tell me your supplier because i'd like to get some of what you're smoking.

Stay strong, Mori!

PS: chrth is definitely *not* a troll, however I am still a bit confused: Everyone knows the studios are evil, so to lambast them would be redundant? Writers are evil but less evil than studio execs, so it's okay to bash them while bashing studios is just passe? I think I *kinda* get it but it still seems like a "Hot or Not" way of griping. Oh btw, if you or Zero or anyone else that is concerned (seriously concerned, mind) about the people who will be losing thier jobs, there are strike funds set up to make a donation to help out this Christmas.

AMPTP didn't offer $100m +. What they offered would have actually amounted to around $30m, and allowed them to call full produced 30 minute or hour episodes on the Net with ads you can't fast-forward thru "promotional".

I have already linked a cogent analysis of AMPTP's game plan in this talkback. In short, they're gunning to bust all the creative guilds - SAG, AFTRA, WGA, DGA, IATSE. They want to divide and conquer. Actors have responded with full solidarity, picketing and using our talents to help get the writers' message out there. Teamsters have brought out themselves and their trucks.

I have yet to hear an actor badmouth what the writers are doing, let alone a writer (and I'm referring here to guild members, not new media douchebags in talkbacks).

Oh and I'm not sure when the DGA has to start negotiating, but SAG's contract is up in June. I guarantee you right now, if the producers - whether they've settled with the WGA or not - don't make or at least accept a reasonable offer, the actors will be out the door faster than you can say What the Frakk!

We know what the stakes are. That's why writers in their 50s and older, who have a lot more to lose than to gain in this strike, are on the picket lines paying it forward for their younger brethren. And that's why the actors and the Teamsters and other unions that aren't even involved in the entertainment industry, like nurses and janitors, turn out in strong numbers in support of the strike.

Did you notice Californication wasn't on the list? They knew they couldn't even get the title past the censors.

I'll take my Dexter and Weeds uncut, thank you.

Yeah, a couple of guilds did drink the Kool-Aid a few years ago. They have since wised up and are insisting on a more nutritious beverage.

CBS is apparently in the worst position of the major players on the AMPTP side. Will the Eye be the first to blink???

A Long Kiss Goodnight: Written by Shane Black, Renny Harlin and Geena Davis before they got all pirate-y, and Sam L Jackson. Bonus Brian Cox points. "Chefs do that."

Hook: Hoffman, Williams directed by Spielberg. Flashback Platrow as a young Wendy. Bob as Smeed. "Peter Pan gots kids?"

Scrooged: Bill Murray as Micheal Cross aka A Thing That They Nail People To. Karen Allen. Carol Kane. Miles Davis with "Starving Musicians" sign. Put a little love in your heart. "Towel, towel, towel, VCR, towel....most of these are towels."

Die Hard: John McTieren & Walter B. Alan Rickman. "Ho, Ho, Ho,... now I have a machine gun."

Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi. Instead of the "Yule Log", this is played on a loop the entire day. "These aren't the droids your are looking for." "Can someone get this walking carpet out of my way?" "There is another Skywalker."

But I support them anyway. It doesn't make me better than you. I just made a decision I felt I could live with.V

I get that you are trying to see both sides of the issue (and it's appreciated) and I agree it's difficult. But I have to disagree with not only yours, but the entire premise, that these writers think they are being somehow arrogant and pretentious for enacting their unionzed *right* to protest. They voted and it was carried. They followed through with that decision.

Does it affect others? Yes! It does! That is why unions do such things. The definition of a *union* is collective. It tries to succeed in making many voices heard as one. I say again, if you have a problem with unions in general, that is an entirely different animal than blaming pre-existing, unionized workers for striking for a new contract.

Sad to say, the WGA suffers from a classic Union paradox problem: namely, you can't be in the Union till you sell a script, but then when you're out trying to sell your script you'll run into people saying we can't buy i tTILL you're in the union. So it become that classic, ridiculous "dog chasing his own tail" union syndrome that causes NEW writers who are just looking to strike that payday to say "Why the fuck do I want to even be a part of this? Let me just sell my script and negotiate my own deal and be done with it. If you're going to make me jump through all these fucking hoops to join your union, then fuck you. I'll just take the money and run."

And that is the fault of the WGA. Look, if they just set a flat rate and said "Pay us a $3,000 initiation fee and you can join, you can get a WGA card", I'd say great. If that's what it takes to open more doors in Hollywood for myself then I'll dig into my pockets and pay. I'll join your little club. That's the price you want to set? Fine, here's my check. But the minute you start setting up additional roadblocks and say "Oh yeah, but you ALSO have to make a sale FIRST and we're going to do EVERYTHING POSSIBLE to try and BLOCK that sale to sort of safeguard the people ALREADY in the union" is the moment that you've set up SUCH an adversarial mentality that...again...newer people coming up the ladder will just say "Fuck it. I'd rather we didn't have a union and we just negotiated as independent contractors on a case by case basis, and I just handled my own deal myself. If I don't like it, fine, I walk away. That's MY choice. On the other hand if it's more money than I've ever seen in my life...more money than I was certainly making stacking bean cans at my crappy job at Ralphs...then it should be MY business and MY personal decision to accept the financial offer put on the table, not yours."

Which brings us full circle to the Union really wanting to remain an exclusive boys club, where it really DOESN'T want new members -- as a Union it just wants to secure work for its EXISTING members to stay strong AS a union and to feel like its flexing its muscles. I mean, here's an example of what I mean. If there was no strike right now and say Mori and I were up against each other for an open slot as a staff writer on some Sci Fi series, the union would be arguing "You should go with Mori versus the new guy because he's union." But if the producers than argued back, "But we like Ape. We like the new guy better, we even like his ideas better", that's when you'd have the Union thumping its chest and saying, "Screw the new guy! He hasn't joined our union yet, so take OUR guy OR ELSE we'll give you grief." So basically the producers don't hire the guy they WANTED...they're being strong armed into taking the guy the Union dictated to them. And at that point Mori's happy since he landed the job, and the Union's happy because it feels like it flexed its muscles and won. The only one not happy is me, the new guy, who got screwed out of being hired simply because I'm not in the Union...which I was willing to join and write the check but they still wouldn't let me!

And here's the bottom line truth: once you get to that point, you can completely see why an entire younger generation has politically come up the line and is now actually ANTI-union and prefers to fend for themselves. Hell, that's why Union membership in America has dropped from a once staggering 40% in a post-WWII era to LESS than 10% in today's America. In fact, all across the country and in corporate workplaces, union decertification votes to literally vote OUT unions by the workers is at an all-time high as more and more employees say "You know, all things being equal, I just think in the true spirit of fairness and capitalism I'd rather fend for myself. I don't want to be tied to the other people here in the office and THEIR performance levels. I just want to be treated ok, get my paycheck, and have a job review all to myself. I think it SHOULD be every man for himself."

And going back to my opening point, that's why its hard to even say who would be a so-called "Scab" in this strike. Look, if Mori crossed the picket line AS a member of the WGA to accept work, fine, he's a scab. He's going against his so-called Union brothers to take their work, so I guess you can call him that. But if it was you or me -- that is, NON union members being offered our very first jobs or sales -- how are we possibly scabs? The truth of the matter is even if there WASN'T a strike right now, we'd STILL have to fend for ourselves. We'd STILL have to find some way to crack open the doors for ourselves and we'd STILL get NO HELP from the WGA as we were doing it. That's the whole CROCK to the WGA's core union concept that you can't join the freakin' thing TILL you've made your first sale. So if the writers WEREN'T on strike I'd be doing the EXACT SAME THING as I'd be doing now WHEN THEY ARE ON STRIKE: namely, I'd have to make my FIRST deal all by myself.

So again, the idea of being a "scab" and crossing the line has NO MEANING to ANYONE who is a first time writer trying to make their first sale.

So, hey, if the strike has inadvertantly created a vacuum that will FINALLY allow you to make your first sale, if its created a truly once in a lifetime window of opportunity for you to crack open a few doors AS a first time writer looking to make your FIRST big sale and since the Union WASN'T going to be backing you ANYWAY -- strike or no strike -- then frankly I don't see why it would be wrong for a first time seller to seize this time and this opportunity...

But I will say I think this strike was a bonehead idea. They never really got the public emotionally behind them and the producers long ago won the perception fight that today's Hollywood writers and TV staff writers are gloriously overpaid relative to the average working American. Not to mention, as others here have noted as well, as this country clearly seems to be headed towards a Recession, the writers and their strike dominoing outward and putting OTHER people out of work...both union and non-union...and crippling the California economy and costing people THEIR jobs is NOT going to win them any favors. So to that end, whether it was by their own mismanagement or just bad luck timing, I don't think they could have picked a WORSE time to go on strike.

During a previous strike, a writer's assistant scabbed. He got promoted to writer and wrote jokes for the Tonight Show. And he thought he was IN. Once the strike ended, this guy was fired by the head writer. Immediately. And word got around about him. His name in the industry was mud. Forever. Embittered, he now teaches a screenwriting class somewhere in BFE.

Producers are free to offer assignments or buy spec scripts to non-WGA writers. It is not a closed a shop. The WGA has requirements for membership. They also run various professional development programs, for example, offering TV writers with experiences the opportunity to shadow showrunners to learn the ropes.

BDA - do your frakkin' homework before you monkey around on a keyboard.

Well, first of all, it’s not like I’m out with a megaphone blaring away or like I’m out on a street corner handing out pamphlets. The truth is I AM part of the public and my view – which according to pretty much EVERY poll is shared by an overwhelming majority of Americans now -- has simply been forged by what I’ve seen happening with this strike, as well as from observing prior union actions in general. And for the record, before you think I’m SUCH the anti-Union person, my last job required union membership and I was even out on a strike line myself.

But by trying to run around the topic yourself and by trying to play the oldest diversion card in the deck, namely the old finger pointing trick of "You simply hate unions!", you’ve only proven my core point that the WGA lost the P.R. war over this battle right from the start. When you resort to that old trick of "Look over there!" you KNOW the P.R. battle has been lost. The hard truth is the WGA never convinced anyone in the public that their issues were worth a grain of salt, and now they're paying the price for it as support clearly erodes and in some cases turns to outright anger. And since the general public tends to believe that (1) overall, unions tend to bilk companies for higher pay in exchange for easier hours and/or cushier work assignments relative to what the average non-union worker has to put up with and (2) Hollywood unions IN PARTICULAR are among the whiniest crybabies on the planet given their cushy jobs relative to the financial payout they receive, they REALLY never got anyone emotionally behind them. They certainly didn't get the support of the average American, who now looks at a bunch of whiny writers bitching about the amount of money they can take home in one week (say as a series writer)...which in some cases can be MORE than what they make after an entire year.

But WORST of all, the moment this strike shut down ALL production and started to ripple outwards and cause NON-union people to lose THEIR jobs as well, then they really PISSED OFF a lot people and lost a helluva lot of support -- certainly in this town. And trust me, I know of which I speak. Speaking as a Los Angeles resident who has friends and neighbors that are literally being handed pink slips now, do you ACTUALLY think they are sitting in their apartments or homes with smiles on their faces -- right at Thanksgiving and Christmas with literally NO money coming in -- thinking to themselves, "Well, we don’t have our rent check or money for presents, but gosh darn it! All this suffering and the utility bill not getting paid is worth it if it means Moriarity gets an extra $10 royalty once a year off his crappy Showtime episodes. I have no problem losing suffer my job for that! And it’s worth not having food for the baby if it means the guys who wrote TRANSFORMERS -- you know, those two guys who probably ALREADY made close to a MILLION DOLLARS between their upfront fees coupled with the royalties they’re ALREADY guaranteed by the old WGA contract -- will now make even MORE money, too. After all, those 2 guys need that extra hundred grand or so to buy even BETTER Ferraris the next time around! So sure, we don’t mind taking jobs at McDonalds or actually being EVICTED so they can be set up FOR LIFE now off the royalties of just ONE fucking movie."

I mean, come on, Necgray, let’s have a REALITY check here regarding how the average person is looking at this strike at this point in time...

You also said (quote): "It's coincidentally bad timing, not purposely bad timing." Sorry, but it IS purposefully bad timing. In fact, it’s the very definition of it. The number one rule of ANY union negotiation –- and again trust me, I know of which I speak since I have close ties to people whose careers literally center on labor mediations and arbitrations, right up to the highest Federal level –- is that you NEVER LET YOUR CONTRACT EXPIRE. You stage a walk-out BEFORE that happens to essentially legally "lock in" the terms of the old agreement for future mediations. And the dopes who let contracts totally run out are always morons playing with fire.

The truth is the minute you consciously choose to become a hissy kid and you let a contract expire ON PURPOSE...to try and make your point in the crankiest, bitchiest way possible...you pretty much lose ALL of the legal footing you once had to stand on. Because now every studio in town has the utter legal right to say, "Hey, you’re the nut jobs who completely walked away. You’re the boneheads who CHOSE to let your agreement with us totally expire. So now that there is literally NO contract in place...and now that there are literally NO guidelines that we have to adhere to anymore...AND now that there are literally NO rules legally binding us or holding us back in ANY way...I guess we can pretty much hire whoever the fuck we want since legally speaking, you guys DON’T even exist anymore!"

Which only proves my other argument -- namely the WGA played this wrong from the start. Given their anger and resentment over the last contract negotiation (where they felt they didn’t get enough off home video), it was clear long ago that they wanted to strike this time to really stick it back to the studios, to make sure they were heard. And you know what? That's fine. That's their God given right AS a union to feel that way and God bless 'em, it's also their right to gamble and play that set of cards. I have no problem with that either.

But the minute you set the stage for THAT type of conflict, there’s no question that the studios were likewise going to (1) fight back as hard as they could and that (2) even worse they’ll now be SO pissed off that the writers disrupted operations and cash flow to this much of an extent that reaching any kind of settlement will be all the harder. Simply because now the studios have EVERY reason to emotionally and fiscally want to stick it right back to the WGA...not the least of which is the further fact that SAG and DGA negotiations are coming up soon too, at which point they’ll be looking for the same...if not more...type of money cut. So the way I see it, if you're a studio head right now you really have NOTHING to lose by busting the WGA’s balls right about now.

And I know that’s what’s going on and that’s how ugly this is going to get unless this gets settled REALLY fast. I have a neighbor who has 2 close friends, each in the legal departments of 2 major studios here in town. And he told me they are already drawing up all-new contracts and paperwork as they prepare to go on an all-out buying spree to purchase scripts from first time writers or non-WGA signees since the studios have every intention of going back into full production and soon -– thus giving the WGA the complete finger in the process.

Like I said, if this doesn't get settled soon, I really DO think the studios are more than prepared to push this to an all-new antagonistic level to bust down the power of unions like the WGA, not to mention they now want to likewise send a less than subtle message to SAG and the DGA to not fuck around when their talks begin in a few months as well.

Really! Gee, then explain this paradox about them being so "marketable" then...

If members in the Union are SO marketable and are SUCH "proven talent" -- and thus are better capable of producing weekly TV scripts and are more able to make money doing that than us lowly mortals who are NOT members of the guild -- then WHY is one of the core arguments to the strike that writers DON’T get enough work, and therefore they now HAVE to get greater residuals to support themselves for looooong stretches of time since the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY CAN'T GET ANY TYPE OF SUSTAINABLE WORK?

In short, you can’t argue it both ways, Nec. You can’t say they deserve special privileges and special compensation because they are so "marketable" but then turn right around at the negotiating table and play the poor man’s violin and declare that their skills are actually NOT marketable to the point that they're all starving artists. That argument just falls flat on its face the moment you even bring it up.

Not to mention, you can join the guild and become a "professional" by simply selling a script -- and yet I hardly think the WGA card-carrying writers who wrote 90% of the utter bullshit and outright crap I see on weekly TV or on late night Cinemax are hardly "marketable" and talented writers up there with the likes of a Dickens or a Rowlings. So the whole basic idea that they're MORE marketable than other writers out there just because they happen to carry a union card in their wallet is a pretty laughable assertion. Going back to your comparison, we're talking about WRITERS who decide who the fuck the Bionic Woman is going to fight this week or who is going to die on DAYS OF OUR LIVES versus people who got fucking doctorates and who went through engineering classes to qualify them to build a fucking Space Shuttle or probe that will actually leave the Planet. SoI think it goes without saying that ONE requires HIGHLY specialized training while the other simply requires you to be able to tap letters on a standard keyboard...

As I stated, if you were a frustrated writer who hasn't been able to break in yet...and as a result you were stacking beans at the grocery store while you still dared to dream of making a script sale...the opening that this strike has created doesn't matter to you at all ANYWAY. You're NON union and strike or NO strike you always had to make your first sale on your own ANYWAY. Strike or no strike, the WGA was NOT going to help you ANYWAY. You were always on your own.

So again, as I said, I'm SURE that given the current situation that there are MORE than enough writers out there who would absolutely, positively seize the chance to make that ONE sale, after which they might cash out and simply leave. Like I said, if you're currently stuck stacking beans for crappy minimum wage and suddenly Paramount calls to say "Hey, you know what? This strike seems to be dragging on and on, and we need product now, so sure -- we'll buy your murder mystery for 100 grand. We thought for a first time writer it was basically okay and filmable", do you REALLY think the grocery clerk is going to fucking hesitate for even one microsecond about taking the deal? Do you REALLY think Mr. Minimum wage or Mr Staff person at the Insurance company is going to say "Gee, I'd like to finally sell a script and be able to pay off my house...hell, to finally even be able to BUY a house or condo and get in on the American dream...but gosh darn it, I just can't do it. I can't do anything that hurts those really well-paid LOST writers out on the picket line. So I'll pass on the money and I'll pass on the chance to finally buy a house all so those writers...whose club I haven't been able to crack for years now...can go on making more money for themselves and making more money than I'll ever see in my lifetime. I'll just go back to stacking beans and accept the fact that that's my lot in life."

Riiiiight...like THAT's the way it would go down. Which was exactly my whole POINT about "how" the average person or first time writer is looking at this strike, as well as "how" they would respond to ANY chance they would now have to make a sale given the vacuum that's been temporarily created.

To be honest, Trader, Sick Fixx said it perfectly in his reply to you as well when he accurately stated: "That kind of union line towing is ridiculous. A man should be able to work if he wants, even if it's for peanuts. That's VERY arrogant to presume that because a union strikes, NO ONE in that field can work, even if they're willing to."

Oh, and by the way... and again speaking as someone exceedingly familiar with labor mediations and arbitrations right up to the Federal level... when a union contract literally EXPIRES and there is now NO contract in place, a company has EVERY legal right to hire whoever they want for whatever reasons to fill the void. That's the danger of letting the contract completely expire, at which point there is nothing legally holding the company back anymore from proceeding however it wants now. And even if its a former union workplace and the union then comes back afterwards -- be it weeks or months later after a dispute is finally settled -- here's a news flash for you, Trader. IF the union then tried to fire or even worse tried to blackball the worker from ever working again, the NLRB (the National Labor Relations Board) would hand you your ass since LAWS against such behavior have since been put on the books by the Bush Administration and the Republicans and the Bush Judicial and Labor Department wings. In the last 8 years...and people like you clearly don't realize this...all-new laws were SPECIFICALLY put in place to safeguard against such actions. If you're a big union lover you will clearly hate that fact, but Bush got it right. He and the Republican Congress in the last 8 years rammed through all-new labor definitions which now make it legally a crime for a union to retroactively punish or take action against someone who simply wanted to work. And, yes, it was also Bush's way of giving Unions, who never supported him at any point during his tenure in office, the middle finger as payback.

So given your scenario, Trader, IF that happened to a writer now they'd have one hell of a lawsuit on their hands against both the WGA and whatever production company (or show) he had been canned from. These days you could sell your writing work and if that happened to you, you could immediately sue the WGA (or any union that took such blackballing action against you) for ruining your livelihood, at which point you'd REALLY clean up financially.

So to paraphrase you, next time you should do YOUR homework before frakkin' around with the keyboard and talking about legal issues which you clearly have no concept of...

The reason unions were created in the first place is because the employers were not being anywhere close to reasonable. In the early days of union organizing and union-busting, employers paid thugs to beat strikers, sometimes to death. They did a lot of other stuff too, but I'll leave you read up on that (start with Howard Zinn).

If the studios/networks could simply land a few recruiters in Des Moines or Deluth and find all the talented writers they need who'd work for beads, believe, me, they would. They don't because they've already developed and finely honed a system whereby the cream they want - great writers who are also good in the room and play well with others - has already risen to the top. The average studio has close to $100m riding on the average movie, more than twice on tentpole pictures. The average TV network has around $1 billion riding on upfronts every spring. You don't pluck dumbfucks off the streets of Omaha (no offense to Nebraska, I could be referring to dumbfucks anywhere, including union-hating New Media Douchebags posting in Talkbacks on AICN) to write your stories when that kind of green is at stake.

Collective bargaining is protected by US law. If you have a problem with that, take it up with your elected officials.

What the AMPTP is doing is trying to bust the WGA and SAG so they can have the talented writers they want and still pay them in beads.

Big Dumb Ape - Scabbing is of course an individual choice. I was at a meeting today where a non-union writer brought up an offer she received from a non-signatory company to spec a pilot script (for peanuts) that was intended for a cable network which IS a guild signatory. She was informed that regardless of who she's theoretically writing for, if the script is for a signatory company, then someone's trying to do an end-run, and she could be risking any possibility of future WGA membership. This particular person is interested in a career, so that's all she needed to hear. But beyond that, what they were offering her was potentially illegal. They were trying to give her an assignment, dictating what kind of work they want and such, but told her she was writing on spec. The WGA exists specifically to protect writers against this kind of shit.

Fundamentally, individuals have no power against a large organization unless they band together.

And BTW, there would be no labor laws in the US, no protections for worker safety, no disability insurance, no health benefits, no none of that, were it not for the union movement. And there's no way people in your families haven't benefited from unions or the laws that are in place because of unions.

People like you two remind of Karl Marx, sitting around writing entirely without shame or irony about the triumph of the proletariat while sucking at the teat of capital.

Not to mention, you keep missing my core point -- in fact you clearly don’t want to even address it. Namely, how could any first time writer POSSIBLY be a scab given that (1) as a first time writer they are clearly NON-union to begin with and thus are not beholden to union rules and (2) given the fact that the WGA WOULDN’T let them into the union -- no matter how much they begged on their knees or no matter how much they offered to pay in dues upfront -- UNTIL they had made their first sale ON THEIR OWN and WHILE THEY WERE STILL NON-UNION?

Seriously, this is like a dog chasing his own tail and this is the whole laughable CROCK to unions in general -– certainly to this strike in particular given the way that the WGA stupidly set itself up, which frankly was to create a "Boys club" that could then do it’s best to keep OUT new people and to likewise marginalize and lock in any or all existing work for themselves. And that’s because you’re now saying that NON-union people...that is, people who shouldn’t have to abide by the union’s rules at all since they clearly don’t belong to it yet...even THEY can't accept work AT ALL, this despite the fact that even the union itself fucking says you FIRST have to sell something while you ARE non-union to even qualify to join the stupid ass club.

I mean, seriously, this has to be the most laughable and fucked up union power play I’ve seen in ages. You now have a union trying to intimidate people who are NOT a part of it...that is, people who just want to work and who are grown adults and who can thus decide if a financial offer is worth taking or not for themselves...at which point, in the truest crock of all, the union then threatens these very same people FOR SIMPLY FOLLOWING THE ENTRY MEMBERSHIP RULE THAT THE UNION ITSELF SET UP SO YOU COULD ACTUALLY JOIN. This is the very definition of "WTF?"

Furthermore, Trader, you dodge the other core issue I brought up, which is someone taking charge of their own life and making their own financial decisions about "what" is acceptable payment for work done. I used my Grocery Clerk analogy (where a minimum wage worker has a chance to sell a script and make serious money for once in his life), but I tell you what -- let’s pay in your court now...

You said (quote): "I was at a meeting today where a non-union writer brought up an offer she received from a non-signatory company to spec a pilot script (for peanuts)."

Ok, let's start there. DEFINE for the rest of us how long the pilot script was (30, 60, 120 minutes) as well as what "peanuts" was. Since no names are involved here, have the balls to at least put out the actual financial figure that she was offered and let’s see what "peanuts" is to you relative to what other people’s actual weekly or monthly wages are. Since you put the label on it...to try and downplay things...let’s see just how peanuty that figure actually was.

You also said (quote): "An offer she received from a non-signatory company to spec a pilot script (for peanuts) that was intended for a cable network which IS a guild signatory. She was informed that regardless of who she's theoretically writing for, if the script is for a signatory company, then someone's trying to do an end-run, and she could be risking any possibility of future WGA membership."

And again, I call CROCK and utter BULLSHIT on the part of the WGA. In fact, I say a gigantic FUCK YOU to the WGA right here and now. And here’s why...

If she writes a script and sells it to a NON-signatory company, her hands are clean. Don’t give me this end-run bullshit argument. That’s the WGA trying to overreach and strong arm NON-union companies and NON-union workers in outright violation of existing Labor laws that are now on the books. She wrote a script, she sold it properly, and she sold it to a company that she had EVERY right to deal with even with a strike in progress. If a non-signatory production company now wants to reach into its own pockets and film a script it bought from non-WGA writers...that is, hire cast and crew...I'm sorry but they have EVERY LEGAL RIGHT to then turn around and actually go ahead to make the final film, to make their actual "product" that they THEN want to bring to market AS a company. At which point the company likewise has EVERY LEGAL RIGHT to try and make back its costs by selling said product off.

So I say a big FUCK YOU to the WGA and to whoever told this woman that she would be in trouble if she proceeded, and thus cost her a sale. That's utter BULLSHIT. She followed the rules, even at the time of a strike. She was going to sell a script to a non-signatory company that had every right to buy a script from any one, any where at any time simply BECAUSE they are a non-signatory production company.

But, hey, this is the bullshit game that unions now want to play in America given their faltering power and ever-dwindling membership. Unions like the WGA now want to dictate to NON-union workplaces and companies and strong arm them into bowing down to their rules TOO. And while I TOTALLY respect the right for workers to band together and unionize IF they want to take that step...to form a collective bargaining unit...I likewise say "fuck that shit" when unions try to manipulate things to their sole advantage. I say fuck them right up the ass.

As I said, it’s one thing to have a work place be unionized...for one particular trade spot to unionize (say the workers on a widget production line)...but that DOESN’T mean that EVERY widget production line now HAS to be unionized and that they ALL have to follow the rules of ONE shop. Hey, there is this little thing in Labor law called "right to work" that allows each worker to decide IF they want to be unionized or not.

So again, going back to my post and my firsthand experiences with legal Labor issues, I wish I was there alongside you today, Trader. Because if you or some ass wipe WGA member had said that in front of me, I’d have given your female friend a few numbers out of my rolodex for some high level Labor attorneys who have argued cases like that in front of the National Labor Relations Board and won 100% of the time. At which point I’d have then looked at you, Trader, or the WGA dolt who opened his mouth to begin with and said, "For being RETARDED enough to even SAY that threat...given the changes in Labor law that the Bush Administration has now put into law...be prepared for the financial ass reaming of your life, buddy."

May you find peace and joy in your life, friend.

Remember, if the writers don't win, you will never find out who Charlie Sheen was going to sleep with in the next all new installment.

mrs_rachie:"WGA need to stay at that table till it's sorted and stop bloody walking away from it" That is one of the stupidest things I have heard today and believe me, that's saying something.

http://tinyurl.com/yu2mak

Or if you'd rather a blog that is not so WGA slanted, I have also been reading Variety's.

http://tinyurl.com/25pvec

There are also plenty of links on the fans4writers[dot]com site.

PS: Madcap was speaking to me, I believe. And although he tried to prove his point by using his opinion as fact, that still has not changed my opinion that he is somewhat of a blockhead.

AMPTP STATEMENT DURING WGA NEGOTIATIONS

Held on December 7, 2007

"The second group of proposals listed under the topic “Rejections” represents those proposals that are an absolute roadblock to any further progress in these negotiations. We have had some frank discussion with you about some of these proposals over the past three days. Unfortunately, these discussions have only reinforced our conviction as to how far apart the parties remain. These proposals are completely unacceptable in their present form, or in any altered form. They include:

W-12 a), your Fair Market Value proposal. We remain steadfast in our conviction that fair market value should be determined by the marketplace itself, not by a third party. The notion of appointing an arbitrator or developing a legal system to ascertain monetary values in our business is utterly unacceptable.

Your Reality Program proposals, W-13 a) and b), are a clever disguise to what amounts to a top-down union organizing campaign. And those proposals, by applying the terms and conditions of the MBA to reality programs, render those companies already signatory to your Agreement unable to compete in the development and production of this type of programming.

Your presentation on December 5th of an added piece to the Reality Program proposal only widened the gap between us. Your proposal sought to bind the networks, who do not even sit at this bargaining table, to a contractual provision which prohibits them from doing business with those who do not offer the same pension and health provisions as set forth in the MBA. Surely you knew that even if any of us had the authority to make such a commitment, the idea of forcing the networks not to do business with a certain category of producers would be wholly unacceptable to us.

Your Animation proposal, W-14, is likewise unacceptable. As you know, there is another union which has long had jurisdiction over the work you are now seeking to cover by your proposal. We believe that it should be up to the writers in this field, using the procedures carefully established by Congress in the 1940s – in the same legislative act that validates the very existence of Writers Guild of America, East and West – to express their desire as to whether they wish to be represented by the WGA or that other union. It is not for us as Companies to usurp the secret ballot democratic election process established by the National Labor Relations Act by agreeing to another top-down union organization proposal.

Your Industry Standards proposal, W-15 a) – the simple statement here is that we will not allow a provision in a labor agreement to dictate those with whom we can do business. Your Sympathy Strike proposal, W-22, asks us to allow you to strike because of the existence of a labor dispute with another group. We cannot entertain that principle. The bargain we strike must include an ironclad pledge of labor peace for the term we agree upon. No exceptions will be entertained.

Lastly, we cannot agree to any new residual formula based upon the concept of “Distributor’s Gross.” That is, any residual formula that requires payment to be made based upon the receipts of an entity other than the signatory Company is unacceptable to us. Our agreement to share revenues with you must be limited to those revenues actually received by the signatory Company.

Your determination to continue to pursue these initiatives prevents us from making any movement in any other area. Therefore, unless you advise us immediately that these proposals are withdrawn, we see no purpose in continuing these talks."

In regards to your statement re; "rely on blogs", if you would like to limit yourself on where you garner your information from, that is your choice. I prefer to read extensively on the matter with many differing opinions.

So. I will try play nice - although it is like rubbing the fur against the grain - and lord knows, most people love a decent "cat fight".

To begin, let's start with my "stupid" comment directed towards yourself. I was responding to your original comment - "WGA need to stay at that table till it's sorted and stop bloody walking away from it". In your *next* comment, that is when you expressed the dubious, but heartening (to myself), *IF*!

For myself, there is no *IF* involved about who discontinued the talks. That is why I directed you to various bloggy-like links; myself thinking that, "She hasn't read the AMPTP statement yet...Once she has read that heavy-handed worded document, there should be no doubt in her mind who walked away from negotations, it even *says* so! re: "Therefore, unless you advise us immediately that these (this is me capitalizing) PROPOSALS are withdrawn, we see no purpose in continuing these talks."

However, you perplexed me once again, you naughty minx. In your last statement above, you have suggested that the WGA has issued an "ultimatum" and the AMPTP's statement is a *response* to that ultimatum! My Opinion: The WGA issued a proposal (underscore) and the AMPTP - pardon the yelling - SHUT THEM DOWN.

Now you may ask yourself, "How is that a "proposal"? I mean, how *dare* the WGA actually present multiple options that represent the *entire* members of the writing establishment? I thought this whole thing was supposed to be about internet downloads? Greedy fuckers the WGA, all of them.....Pardon. There is that pissiness again:/ I would, however, just like to draw to your attention to the FACT, that the AMPTP, on Nov. 4th, said that they would *NOT* come back to table - even *dare* to speak - to WGA negotaitors until the DVD residuals were "off the table". They were steadfast that negotations would continue - and I'm quoting here - "Through out the holidays, weekends; no matter what."

The WGA took DVDS residuals off the table.

Talks resumed. The ol' back-n-forth. Until the AMPTP issued "that* statement. You know the one I'm talking about. Yeah, *that* one. Then they figure, "What the hell? They took something off the table *last* time...I wonder what they'll do we do this?" ( I am putting this in brackets because the above quote it is my own opinion of the scoundrelous behavior, but... GOD! The *games* that they play! I respect them somewhat because they are so devious. Did you hear the rumour that was blogged two days before hand, that they had their "We are breaking off talks with these unreasonable people" preped and ready? The BALLS! The *huge* multi-million dollar BALLS!!)

Ah, my dear, I am rant. Forgive me again. So, in conculsion, I guess -even though we love the Bufster - I have to, and will remain, disagreed on the premise the the WGA "walked away".

If you think I am omitting the other points that you have have made, please do not think I have not considered them. I just have not disagreed with them. Therefore, I don't get "pissy" about them, yeah?

PS: I do apoligize for the "stupid' comment. It's hard not to get caught up. I still think madcap is a blockhead though ;pÏ

"absolute roadblock to any further progress", "completely unacceptable in their present form, or in any altered form." ," utterly unacceptable.", "are a clever disguise", "We cannot entertain that principle.", "No exceptions will be entertained. " , "Lastly, we cannot agree to any new residual formula" , "unless you advise us immediately that these proposals are withdrawn, we see no purpose in continuing these talks."

GOD! They are *SO* butch!! ¿

The standard response has been, "The writers are not the toliet. They are the water. Without them, you end up with a basin full of shit." p

No seriously; make a deal. I've got nothing....

Fine. Let's talk about Koontz *coughpoorman'skingcough*. Koontz is protected by this thing called "royalties". He signs this contract that says he gets flat fee for each book - no matter how many words. If studios or anyone else wants to transfer that book into a film or graphic novel, Koontz gets no monetary reimburment. His name on the credits is enough.

Wait a sec! That's *crazy* talk! Mainstream novelists not only get this thing called "royalties" for each book that is sold, they also get a up-front flat fee ( New, un-touched novelists, in addition to royalties, have this sexy party called a "bidding-war" between publishers.) Then, when their novel is successful, they get to haggle a screen adaption for xtra cash. Bonus money included for having their name above the producers (if they are famous enough)

And..really? Final say?*No* writer has final say. You have enough producers/directors trying to convince you that the blue sky is green, eventually it becomes a little aquamarine.

PS: Did you know Ron Moore is one of the showrunners that is striking? Him and his wife have this whole blog about it and why they are doing it. You can ask him questions - and since he is not so much with the writing at this moment - he'll answer you back.m