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Updated with words from Harlan Ellison! Many Such Journeys Are Possible!! Details On STAR TREK’s Plotline??

I SUPPORT THE GINCHY ON THIS ONE. by Pound Sand	Nov 12th, 2007 03:50:00 PM
When did AICN become all Star Trek news, all the time. Every rumor reported. It's FANNNNN-tastic.
First by xmanse	Nov 12th, 2007 03:50:28 PM
Sooo looking forward to this film.
Invisotext only works with a white background by chrth	Nov 12th, 2007 03:50:33 PM
I'm reminded of the Amazon Women on the Moon "Son of the Invisible Man" sketch.
About that Invisotext... by idahomer	Nov 12th, 2007 03:51:29 PM
Needs to be on white background.
But... by xmanse	Nov 12th, 2007 03:51:56 PM
Unsure they should be dealing with a time-travel story. It has shades of generations.
Should I be able to read invisotext without highlighting it? by shitstorm23	Nov 12th, 2007 03:52:20 PM
Is this new info? Why did I know most of this already?
I've added my Avatar to make the invisotext a tad more inviso by Hercules	Nov 12th, 2007 03:52:32 PM
http://www.myspace.com/htstron g
"City on the Edge of Forever" was the title of the episode. by Head In A Box	Nov 12th, 2007 03:56:21 PM
NOT the name of the entity that sent Kirk, Spock and McCoy back in time. It was simply called "The Guardian". God...I am such a huge, fucking nerd.
Scotty by xmanse	Nov 12th, 2007 03:58:47 PM
By the way, does anyone else think, out of the pair, Nick Frost would have been a better Scotty?
Enterprise time travel headaches... by wowsah156	Nov 12th, 2007 03:59:00 PM
Wasnt that storyline already used in Enterprise? Very poor showing if this time travel line comes through .
Sounds like it could be quite good. by football	Nov 12th, 2007 04:01:14 PM
But I thought Christopher Whatisface was playing Pike and not Kirk!!
Will Joan Collins be in it? by Zardoz	Nov 12th, 2007 04:03:39 PM
Sounds very cool. It references the old show and it seems that there's definitely a chance for a "re-set" of the Trek universe. If it's the real deal, I like it...
Q by xmanse	Nov 12th, 2007 04:04:50 PM
To be honest, just bring Q in. Or a million other people. I thought the idea was to reboot the franchise?
Why use original continuity? by TheBigDogg	Nov 12th, 2007 04:12:22 PM
And have Leonard Nimoy when the characters don't match even in personality, as we got from the Bones description and casting. Isn't that just going to completely muddy it? Either it's a reboot or it's not. Sounds like a train wreck.
Just f*&king watch it by blagwedge	Nov 12th, 2007 04:13:55 PM
its the only new Star Trek any of us are EVER going to see again, and the idea sounds ok, when compared to a lot of the plots from the various spin off series. Take "Genesis" from TNG season seven for example, that was rubbish! I can name at least 50 episodes that were ten times worse than this idea. Bring on the new movie i say. Plus its going to have a MASSIVE budget!!!! This is what i've been wanting to see for years, imagine a star trek movie that has the same budget as all the other blockbusters, its going to be the coolest thing ever!
Ugh! More time travel?!! by RetroActive	Nov 12th, 2007 04:16:28 PM
I thought this was a relaunch, not a rehash?!! BOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRING!
Wow...they are really thinking out of the box on this one! by conspiracy	Nov 12th, 2007 04:16:30 PM
Fuck you JJ...this shit has been done at LEAST 4-5 times on Trek already. It was played out years ago when Next Gen send the fucking Borg back to Fucking old earth to kill that fucking wino who invented warp drive...Jesus Fucking Goose Stepping Christ is this the best Hollywood can think up. for 75Mil? Hey Abrams...it takes more than CGI, a dusty old plot, and the cast of My High School Musical to make a decent fucking film...Hack!
Hello! Anybody home?! by BoggyCreekBeast	Nov 12th, 2007 04:20:10 PM
Think, McSpock, think!
Starfleet’s No-Win Electric Kobayashi Maru Acid Test! by Iowa Snot Client	Nov 12th, 2007 04:22:46 PM
Yesssss!
There are two possibilities... by GreyGeek	Nov 12th, 2007 04:23:36 PM
In my humble opinion, there are two possibilities here. First, this movie could turn out to be the typical, over hyped, re-hashed marketing oatmeal we are so often force-fed at the local megaplex. Second, “they” may finally be building the perfect nerd trap, and I will be leaving my wife and kids to go live in sin with this movie until I die a grizzled old geek (which is not far off anyway). Time will tell. But man, are we ever getting the play-by-play on the casting. Maybe we could just have a weekly Star Trek casting round-up?
So basically it's the.... by jimmy_009	Nov 12th, 2007 04:24:00 PM
.... SPOILER .... .... Terminator story retold in the Trek world. Interesting.
gee, this plot smacks of the familiar... by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 04:24:52 PM
Ah well, it wasn't like this film was really generating any interest for me anyway. It is still shocking that Paramount executives went right back to the Starfleet Academy well that they've been visiting for over twenty years. SA has been the fallback idea for every single Trek sequel since Star Trek 4 and these dunderheads just cannot let it go.
City on the Edge of Forever? by kevinwillis.net	Nov 12th, 2007 04:27:39 PM
Kobayashi Maru? I gotta admit, this sounds like this will be the first fun Star Trek movie to watch in about twenty years. I'm trying to keep my expectations low (this didn't help with the Star Wars prequels, but I'm trying) . . . but, given what I've heard, and that it's J.J. Abrams, I'm betting this will be a fun (not deep, not revolutionary) but fun movie to watch.
I've got your "Kobayashi Maru" right here... by Mr. Nice Gaius	Nov 12th, 2007 04:32:05 PM
It's called the "ADAMA ATMO-FTL JUMP MANEUVER". Suck it, Trekkers! In all seriousness...another time-travel story?!?!
What the fuck is wrong with time travel? by odo19	Nov 12th, 2007 04:42:32 PM
You fucking morons are really starting to piss me off with this anti-time travel bullshit. It has not been that overused, only 2 movies have featured it as a plot device and it was the second best TOS movie and the best TNG movie. Even on tv there have only been about 40 time travel episodes and about 726 episodes alltogether.
Speaking of Time Travel... by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 04:44:17 PM
Did anyone else here at AICN travel back to the beginning of October? I know shuttlepod, did.
odo by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 04:47:23 PM
The reason time travel is booed is because its been OVER-used in all the series' episodes. The last good time episode involved the finale of Star Trek TNG. Since then we've gotten nothing but reset buttons, and time story ripoffs. For that matter, there hasn't really been an original episode of Star Trek since DS9. Oh, and for the movies, Star Trek 4, 7, 8, and parts of 9 used time travel.
shuttlepod-i'm still scraping that memory by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 04:50:37 PM
out of me brain. I still can't believe how bad of an episode that was. Of course, with a series as banal and insipid as Enterprise, I wasn't really surprised. Shocked, but not surprised.
Moondoggy2u by odo19	Nov 12th, 2007 04:50:55 PM
Fuck, I forgot about Generetions, but what parts of INS featured anytime travel.
Excitement by damned-dirty-ape	Nov 12th, 2007 04:52:24 PM
I'm a big trek fan but this is something i just can't get excited about. Trek should move forward, not back. No matter how good the new cast is, there still won't be the chemistry of the originals. I'm more intrigued about the look of the Enterprise than anything else.
Spoiler Optimus is voiced by Tom Brady now. by TomBodet	Nov 12th, 2007 04:53:18 PM
Spoiler and he shows up on new Trek in the service of the Tholians. Flames on Tholians: comedic, inspirational GOLD.
Odo--the part where the Baku could slow time by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 04:54:01 PM
and "live in the moment." It was some tacked-on hack job to be sure, but it did save the life of Anije in that cave.
Fuck it by damned-dirty-ape	Nov 12th, 2007 04:55:15 PM
Actually, as long as the women are wearing skirts that resemble belts, i'll be there.
so spock, rather than travel through time himself... by captain_kirk	Nov 12th, 2007 04:59:22 PM
fucks up the timeline even more by telling his past self about everything else? What needs to be considered is that we are unaware of any way that spock could leave the past until the future is restored. i have to admit, i am intrigued, although the temporal prime directive seems at play. Perhaps in a back-to-the-future like way, young spock writes a letter to young kirk telling him to wear a bulletproof vest when he jumps into the engineering section of the Enterprise B, and our last shot is of old kirk slapping spock on the back. problem--when does spock go back in time? in the st:tng timeline, post insurrection/nemesis/crapola, or post-undiscovered country pre-generations? in the earlier timeframes, of course, dr. mccoy is still alive. how will they address that? nonetheless, i finally admit i'm intrigued. I'm not sure how this idea gets sustained over a new series of films...or how it fs up the tos continuity, but i had heard about the guardian of forever rumor before. Could be interesting. post script--what kind of guardian IS the guardian of forever if he lets any pissy-ass wuss go back and f up time? Not much of a guard--kinda like Sgt. Schulz, if u ask me.
Dirty Ape by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 05:01:01 PM
You remember how all the crews/cast members acted in all the pilot episodes of all the ST incarnations (cept for maybe the original series) were always wooden, unfamiliar with one another, and generally uncharasmatic and unsympathetic. There is a very good chance this new cast will suffer from the same problems. The only reason you might be able to relate to them at all is because you will be associating them with characters you already know. Sorry, but this really smacks of hack job.
Moondoggy by damned-dirty-ape	Nov 12th, 2007 05:11:42 PM
I suppose you are right really. I guess a tight knit group like tos crew takes time to get that amount of chemistry. My point was that star trek is about going forward, not going back. Trek could have been rebooted in a future time but still have the same canon to please the existing fans.
I watched first contact on youtube by Pipple	Nov 12th, 2007 05:17:42 PM
Indeed it's a really good trek flick... sorta weak at the end but it begins strong and keeps your attention all the way to the finish. Now I can see why people liked the next generation.
WTF by fookinmonkeyzod	Nov 12th, 2007 05:19:09 PM
JJ Abrahms creater of lost is making a star trek film that acts as a sequel to one of the top 5 episodes of Trek ever, references the greatest trek movie ever and you lot are complaining??Generations, Insurrection and Nemesis were pretty much stories about baddies with huge guns - wow. City on the edge of forever was about history being screwed by saving someone, this time it is screwed by killing someone. Kirk rescues Spock in Trek 3, Spock returns the favour in Trek 11. This will be a story about history, nostalgia, friendship transcending all, this willl be the greatest Trek film ever I have every faith. For too long Trek has been about reversing the polarity or rephasing the shields. Stop whining and be grateful we are getting a film next year that will surpass all expectations. Its only being filming a week and already there are whiners and moaners who havent seen 1 second of footage or 1 page of script. Get your arses out of your hands and watch your DVD of Phantom Menace while the rest of us brace ourselves for what will be a Peter david trek novel on the big screen.
I completely agree, dirty ape by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 05:21:03 PM
A new series with some new blood set farther into the future would have suited me a lot more than Trek Rehash. In my opinion, Trek has gone off the rails ever since Star Trek Generations. The TNG crew were shoehorned into Battle Trek movies rather than exploration plotlines, as was the forte of TNG, and painfully dull series like Voyager and Enterprise were the nails in the coffin. Coffin is probably a bad metaphor, actually, since Trek can become good again--it just needs to go further into the future so as not to get bogged down in all this continuity minutia. Instead, however, Paramount does the opposite--Star Trek jettisons everything we liked about Trek and mires itself in the miniscule details of continuity. Given the record of Trek for hte past 10 to 15 years, though, I'm not surprised.
Spock drinks a beer and cheats on his Deathgrip by ThePilgrim	Nov 12th, 2007 05:22:49 PM
Wow so Spock goes back in time and he could tell Kirk about his son getting killed and Khan and the Humpbacks and 9-11 and some bald dude named Picard and the Nexus and Price Line...
IESB is leaving out the part WHERE in time Kirk is assasinated.. by zillabeast	Nov 12th, 2007 05:23:59 PM
He is killed before he can set rescue the Chancellor's daughter at Khitomer. You heard it here first.
Zod--that is precisely my point. by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 05:26:22 PM
Time travel, prequelitis, and the boring, minute, been-there-done-that aspect of Trek is about to rear its ugly head yet again in, brace yourself, another prequel about the unimportant days of Ensign Kirk. B-O-R-I-N-G. The movie will be filled with winks, nods, Trek Babies learning how to reverse polarities in the Warp Drive, and pointless rehash. A real Trek story involves boldly going where no one has gone before, doesn't it? Yes, you are right that the TNG films were mostly rubbish, but how is this film going to be any different? Oh, I see--its cause it has Trek Babies going through classes. Yawn.
zod by damned-dirty-ape	Nov 12th, 2007 05:28:05 PM
I'm not making judgements, i just know better than to raise my hopes for something that could could be a big steaming turd. There's no doubt Abrahms is a talented man. MI3 was the best in the series, but his Superman script was shockingly bad. I don't envy anyone who takes these sort of chances with franchises as big as this. There's bound to be a lot of backlash. I personally don't state a films quality until i've seen it. How anyone can say a film is shit or is going to be great before it's been seen is beyond me
still digesting it..and loving it... by captain_kirk	Nov 12th, 2007 05:28:26 PM
the more i think about this, the more i think that the plot has a chance. remember that scene in all good things, part ii, where an increasingly odd-acting time traveling picard looked at his crew, sighed, admitted that though they had no reason to trust him, he knew what they could achieve and asked them to trust him? (insert triumphant horns here) That's what trek was and still is about. I think it's time to accept that there will be changes, but that this movie has the potential to become the start of something great. Some of our favorite episodes are when trek continuity is screwed up. Yesterday's Enterprise. Trials and Tribblations. Let's embrace the fact that someone will be telling our stories again. Someone who is not Berman. I'm through kicking this project. Let us boldly enter ... the undiscovered country.
If this is true then time line wise... by Yeti	Nov 12th, 2007 05:30:28 PM
The Romulans and Future Spock are post Star Trek:Nemisis?
Agreed, ape. by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 05:31:07 PM
I'm not saying this film will be horrible, but I am saying that i've no interest in what I've read so far. Yeah, it reads like a Peter David book, but aside from Imzadi, that isn't a compliment in my eyes.
an idea for kirk and the kobayashi maru by captain_kirk	Nov 12th, 2007 05:32:31 PM
did anyone think that maybe the romulans would re-reprogram so that kirk actually LOSES? Imagine the shock on his face. That would be a great twist.
I gotta agree with Harlan by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 05:36:31 PM
Those hacks at Paramount and those in charge of Star Trek routinely steal other writers' work. Take that Tom Paris character, who was a thinly veiled rehash of a character created by a third party. Since they renamed him and only SLIGHTLY changed the background of the character, they got to use Nick Lecarno...oops, Tom Paris, for free. There are a slew of other examples, but you guys get the idea.
moondoggy by damned-dirty-ape	Nov 12th, 2007 05:37:47 PM
I agree about the pointless language used in trek over te last few years. I mean how many times can you power up the eps conduits using a modulating phase variance emitter which in turn causes a fucking subspace triangulating interplexing pulse to destroy the type 4 interspacial fracture. Whatever happened to exploring something that made one of the crew go insane and then get a security officer killed
Harlan won his Terminator lawsuit against James Cameron by Wayne6000	Nov 12th, 2007 05:39:14 PM
I recall a few years ago Harlan successfully sued James Cameron, for him ripping off his Terminator story premise (for the first film) from a Twilight Zone episode Harlan wrote, so Paramount should take notice of his warning. It'd be better for JJ to offer Harlan a co-writing credit.
You would think Star Fleet... by HellKing	Nov 12th, 2007 05:39:18 PM
would be guarding the hell out of that planet. Change the course of time... You better believe it.
True, shuttle by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 05:41:21 PM
But Harlan created certain main plot points that Paramount is intending to use for its feature. Also, Trek was built upon the scripts of countless tv writers, not Roddenberry. In fact, Gene was one of the lousiest script writers around. Remeber, his idea of a Star Trek film was one in which Kirk and Spock try to stop the JFK assassination, only to have Spock pull the trigger. Oi Vey
so if i were a THINKING romulan and had access to the guardian by Trader Groucho 2	Nov 12th, 2007 05:43:05 PM
i think i'd just send one suicide bomber with the frakking mother of all cobalt bombs back to about 10,000 BC earth time and blow the planet out of the galaxy. the fundamental storytelling problem with using a device like the guardian, which can take you anywhere, is that, well, it can take you anywhere. i suppose it could work if the romulans trying to use the device are under some sort of time pressure - their window of opportunity to use the device is severely limited or whatever. oh, and i thought there were badass starfleet types with super-duper 29th century tech keeping an eye on all these time-traveling shenanigans. okay, i'm a geek too.
JFK ? by damned-dirty-ape	Nov 12th, 2007 05:43:44 PM
Really? That was seriously considered as a movie storyline? Red dwarf used that one, but it was JFK who shot himself.
I admit -- I'm confused by DKT	Nov 12th, 2007 05:45:21 PM
What the hell is Harlan Ellison talking about? What site? What City on the Edge of Forever stuff (aside from what Quint pointed out)? I like Trek okay but apparently I'm missing something...
LOL, ape. by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 05:46:47 PM
For me, the best Star Trek TNG "movie" will always be "All Good Things..." An actually interesting and previously unexplored aspect of Time Travel, a deft use of Q, character exploration, bare minimum use of treknobabble, and some top-notch acting by Stewert and DeLancie. That was the definitive TNG movie for me.
it's a way to connect all these characters by zooch	Nov 12th, 2007 05:47:48 PM
before they are assigned to the enterprise without disturbing continuity.
Can't JJ just figure something else out... by Heckles	Nov 12th, 2007 05:48:33 PM
Seems like characters in Trek can't help but end up time traveling one way or the other. If he wants to use a plot device then he should pay for it.
Yep, Ape--really by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 05:49:30 PM
Worse, Gene proposed the film EVERY TIME a new Trek film was being proposed after ST:TMP. Gene reportedly despised all the Trek films save for the original one he "wrote." There are dozens of other examples of the guy's lousy plotting that I won't go into, but he did have a few good ideas in him, thats for sure.
this one HAS to be good by zooch	Nov 12th, 2007 05:50:50 PM
It has an even number.
lol, zooch. by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 05:51:36 PM
wait...eleven is odd, isn't it?
Sweating by damned-dirty-ape	Nov 12th, 2007 05:52:04 PM
I wonder if all the characters in this movie are going to be constantly sweating and have a line of light going across their faces to highlight their eyes, like they had in TOS. You look at any of the old episodes, they were always sweating like hell
shuttlepod--thats not the whole story. by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 05:54:13 PM
Get this, when he heard about Star Trek 4, his response to Paramount and its writers was something to the effect of,"Alright! I'm glad to see you guys getting back to Star Trek. However, I dont think they should be going to the eighties. What they need to do is go to 1963.." I'm only SLIGHTLY paraphrasing, shottlepod--i'm not kidding.
Wayne 6000 by Tal111	Nov 12th, 2007 05:55:06 PM
It wasn't a Twilight Zone episode it was the Outer Limits...lemme see your Geek I.D.
wait nevermind by zooch	Nov 12th, 2007 05:56:41 PM
I lost count. It's DOOMED!
DKT- Ellison wrote that episode by Heckles	Nov 12th, 2007 05:59:16 PM
... he came up with the Guardian and all that. If the new Trek film uses the Guardian then he wants to get paid.
Outer Limits, not Twilight Zone by Freeluna	Nov 12th, 2007 05:59:31 PM
Harlan's lawsuit against Cameron involved an Outer Limits episode entitled "Soldier" starring Michael Ansara. The opening sequence of a dark, rubble strewn wasteland with death rays passing overhead was used by Cameron in "Terminator". If I were Harlan, I would have sued, too!
Not true, Rubiks by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 06:02:59 PM
Paramount does indeed owe him residuals and acknowledgement of his contributions if they use his Guardian. Again, this is why Brennon & Braga had to rewrite the Nick Lecarno character for Voyager--they didnt want to pay royalties.
If Spock can go back in time by Darth Busey	Nov 12th, 2007 06:03:34 PM
to warn young Kirk about a threat on his life, he can go back to warn old Kirk to watch out for Malcolm McDowell. I'd bet money that the movie ends with the timeline changed and a Shatner/Nimoy reunion.
I heard this rumor MONTHS ago... by mparke2	Nov 12th, 2007 06:04:19 PM
Seeing as I heard this was the plot months ago, I'd say it's true. Glad to see Spock will get both sequel and prequel treatment.
There were a couple of TNG Novels that used the Guardian by chrth	Nov 12th, 2007 06:07:38 PM
Did Harlan get royalties for those as well?
If Spock can go back in time... by Tal111	Nov 12th, 2007 06:10:30 PM
he can go and warn Kirk that he's going to get super fat.
ohhh, i see, rubiks. by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 06:11:56 PM
Sorry, I thought you meant he wasn't owed money, either--I appologize. You are absolutely right.
JFK by Trader Groucho 2	Nov 12th, 2007 06:13:20 PM
was used in an ep of the New Twilight Zone in which a future historian so fascinated with JFK goes back in time and winds up taking the Prez's place in the limo, beaming JFK to the future where he takes the historian's job - teaching 20th century history.
odo19 by odo19	Nov 12th, 2007 06:13:39 PM
Anybody see the interview of Harlan Ellison at Trek movie report.com, the dude looks and sounds just like Joe Pesci when hes angry. NO JOKE
go back and read ellison's tv guide interview about city on the by Trader Groucho 2	Nov 12th, 2007 06:16:51 PM
shatner counted lines, and was upset nimoy had more dialogue than he did. i love actors.
So... by Bobo_Vision	Nov 12th, 2007 06:17:34 PM
...basically, (spoilers) its like the Terminator, only its James Kirk instead of John Connor...and Old Spock instead of Reese, talks to young Spock instead of Sarah. But, does Old Spock make out with young Spock?
Odo--what do you mean by that? by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 06:17:51 PM
Are you saying Harlan is here to do Pesci impressions for you? I he here to act like some impressionist for you? Is he Frank Caliendo to you? Does he make you laugh? Is that what you mean? Huh? What are you trying to say?
We need to see Harlan's Desilu contract first... by anchorite	Nov 12th, 2007 06:18:16 PM
before we make any kind of judgment about the veracity of his claims. If it stipulated in the original contract that the story was written for the Star Trek producers and that they held the rights to the property, Harlan has no leg to stand on. If his contract stipulated that Harlan retained the rights to that story, then he should press Paramount for proper credit and any monies that would be owed to him. But you know what? The WGA agreement he referred to could not supersede the original agreement he signed in a court of law, as the original parties were not specifically part of the later WGA negotiations. This is an interesting little kink though, and it will probably lead to some "go fuck yourself" money changing hands. Or a very revised storyline. Could you imagine if every writer that contributed to Star Trek demanded that any of their ideas that made it into ST canon remain solely their intellectual property? Apply that demand to any long-lived show with a bunch of "writers-for-hire" over the years. Yikes! What a potential mess that would be.
If Spock can go back in time by Trader Groucho 2	Nov 12th, 2007 06:18:47 PM
He can go and warn Uhura not to do the GILFy feather dance.
Do you find him amusing? Does he amuse you? by anchorite	Nov 12th, 2007 06:19:28 PM
BANG!
If Spock could go back in time by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 06:20:20 PM
He could beam that little goblin of the wing of Big Jim's plane.
Oh, the hated feather dance! Oh, the hated movie! by anchorite	Nov 12th, 2007 06:20:45 PM
Poor Nicholas Meyer. From Wrath of Khan to Undiscovered Country. It should be retitled Star Trek VI: No Undiscovered Country For Old Men.
Anchorite by Trader Groucho 2	Nov 12th, 2007 06:21:53 PM
I'm guessing work for hire, as to my knowledge Jerome Bixby (Mirror Mirror, aka Spock has a beard) never saw a dime for all the alternate universe stuff Trek did on DS-9 and then on the Enterprise two-parter. And what about whoever wrote Space Seed?
Didn't Uhurua bang Roddenberry? by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 06:21:58 PM
Of course, I supsect The Great Bird hit some of that Tasha Yar, too. How else can you explain her presence in TNG?
If Spock can go back in time by Trader Groucho 2	Nov 12th, 2007 06:24:06 PM
He can go and warn Jim to NEVER EVER sing-speak Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds.
God Bless Harlan! by tensticks	Nov 12th, 2007 06:24:30 PM
If anyone wants a REAL look at the dark and ugly side of STAR TREK, you only need read the introductory essay to his CITY ON THE EDGE OF FOREVER script book. It hasn't made me hate STAR TREK, but it's certainly changed my perspective on it. Every TREK fan (or hater!) should read it. Does Harlan have rough edges? Absolutely, though he was very nice to me when I met him. Is he a genius regardless? Without question. Read it.
moondoggy2u by Trader Groucho 2	Nov 12th, 2007 06:25:57 PM
rumor has it, and this ONLY rumor, that uhura, being the communications officer, was fairly open at the time to intercourse. but it was the 60s. everyone was talking with everyone, ya know?
So, Harlan created the stone time donut by aboriginal	Nov 12th, 2007 06:26:21 PM
Don't forget to go after James Cawley for a piece of that 'Trek pie. Even patents run out after 14 years and its been 41.
First pic of Spock from IESB by IAmJack'sUserID	Nov 12th, 2007 06:28:01 PM
http://forums.superherohype.co m/showthread.php?p=13226514&po sted=1#post13226514
Don't FUCK with Harlon Ellison ! by Pipple	Nov 12th, 2007 06:28:10 PM
Ooooooooooohhh someone's fittin for a beat down...
If Spock could go back in time by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 06:28:40 PM
He'd travel back to Star Trek 4 and inform the crew that since Scotty was in aboard their ship, no one needed to travel back in time to snag a whale.
oops its harlan by Pipple	Nov 12th, 2007 06:28:55 PM
Sorry mr. ellison. don't send me angry letters please.
wow, that does look quite a bit like Nimoy. by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 06:31:44 PM
Is that a legitimate picture?
Sooo,,. Old Spock meets Young Spock? by samurai sark	Nov 12th, 2007 06:37:03 PM
I don't think this story is entirely true. If they wanted a true-to-canon prequel, then Pike, Bones, McCoy, and others should be cast much closer to their original characters, which they are not. (New Bones is described as younger and much more action-y than Old Bones, New Scotty isn't a dark haired, sqare jawed uber-hunk like Old Scotty, New Sulu is Korean, etc.) Smells like teen spirit to me...
What an asshole. Awesome. by Guy Who Got A Headache And Accidentally Saves The World	Nov 12th, 2007 06:37:54 PM
Everybody loves an asshole these days.
If Spock can go back in time... by Tal111	Nov 12th, 2007 06:38:29 PM
he could warn the entire crew that Mr Sulu is gay....but that there's nothing wrong with that.
HOLY SPOCK-CRAP!!! by samurai sark	Nov 12th, 2007 06:40:16 PM
That fucker looks just like Nimoy! Excellent link Jack's ID! Thanks a ton ton ton! Damn, I really hope this leaked info is foilers. I also hope New Kirk lives up to Old Kirk. Sylar set the bar pretty high on the resemblance scale. Awesome
If Spock could travel back in time by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 06:42:22 PM
he could catch reruns of himself on the boob tube.
JJ, here's what I want for x-mas.... by samurai sark	Nov 12th, 2007 06:42:56 PM
...please give me some way of having a Nimoy/Shatner reunion! Please?! I was robbed in Generations. I know Kirk always believed he'd die alone, but I really really really want to see the Shat and the Moy onscreen in character (rather than priceline commercials)
What has Ellison done? by Tal111	Nov 12th, 2007 06:48:27 PM
Been involved in more lawsuits than Scientology.
Careful there, Tal--you might just get sued, too by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 06:52:41 PM

Old Thumbsucker Ellison is upset. Get over it! by Monkey_King	Nov 12th, 2007 06:53:21 PM
If his story was made into a TREK episode, then it's canon and also open to interpretation or reinterpretation. Paramount owns the rights to the series and film series, that includes said episode and it's storyline and characters. What kind of bullshit is Thumbsucker trying to pull? Does he want cash? Not like he's going to use the money to make himself younger or put himself in cryo stasis so he can bitch about his royalties 30 years from now. Let the poor guy make his movie and shut the Hell up.
Wait, am I allowed to use Ellison's name in daily speech? by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 06:53:32 PM
Or is that his property, too?
My Cousin Harlan by samurai sark	Nov 12th, 2007 06:57:48 PM
Hey Nero, you're in the City-on-the-Edge-of-For-Fuckin -Ever. You come from Romulus. You're tryin' to kill a good old boy. There is no way this is not going to trial.
moondoggy... by Tal111	Nov 12th, 2007 06:58:39 PM
expect a phone call, I just got one! Is he a scientologist? I was afraid to ask.
GoodHarlans by samurai sark	Nov 12th, 2007 07:01:10 PM
Who the fuck cares? I'll sue JJ. I don't give a fuck. What is it, the first asshole I sued? Not the first time I sued an asshole. I'll fuckin' sue an asshole. Where are the shovels?
by samurai sark	Nov 12th, 2007 07:01:28 PM
Frankie, Frankie, Frankie. What the fuck does 528 have to do with 460? I can't believe this guy. Fuckin' 528 ain't even close to 460. Now what the fuck does that got to do with anything?
by samurai sark	Nov 12th, 2007 07:02:58 PM
You know Chekov, you're a fuckin' mumbling stuttering little fuck. You know that?
If Spock could travel back in time... by Tal111	Nov 12th, 2007 07:03:02 PM
do you think he'll let the cast know that in the future Star Trek will suck and that Battlestar will be the show to watch?
JUST SLINGSHOT AROUND THE SUN AND BE DONE WITH IT! by TallBoy66	Nov 12th, 2007 07:06:35 PM
Yeah, seriously, just use the Star Trek 4 method to time travel if there's too much complaints about The Guardian (which would be neat to see again, though).
Harlanisms continued by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 07:10:43 PM
So, you know how long it took you to time travel because it takes you 5 minutes to make Romulan ale. Well, how come it takes you 5 minutes when it takes the rest of the romulan-ale drinking world 20 minutes to make romulan ale? Perhaps the laws of physics cease to exist upon your stove! Was this MAGIC ale? Did you buy this ale from the same place jack got his beanstalk beans?
Time Travel screw-ups 101 by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 07:12:33 PM
Why did the borg travel back in time after slogging through all those starfleet vessels when all they had to do was time travel FIRST AND THEN traipse on to Earth?
Time Travel screw-ups 102 by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 07:15:14 PM
Why did picard take Kirk back to the time JUST BEFORE Soran shot the nova rocket when he could have just travled back to the time when they encounter soran for hte first time. Then, picard could order Worf and Ryker to forgo the stun setting and head right on into Kill mode.
You DO NOT want to piss of Harlan!!! by Batutta	Nov 12th, 2007 07:19:35 PM
Check this out-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =mj5IV23g-fE
Hey, dwarf, there are at least 70 online places... by JackPumpkinhead	Nov 12th, 2007 07:20:09 PM
...where your works can be obtained for free. How does that make you feel? Although I suppose the major question needs to be: why would anyone want to touch anything with Ellison's name on it?
Hmm...this plot still seems familiar by DarthFloyd	Nov 12th, 2007 07:22:17 PM
Let's see...plot to go back in time and eliminate the Captain of the Enterprise...check...major battle occurs...check...guest appearance by other cast member...check. Oh yeah, I remember: Star Trek the Klingon Experience in Las Vegas!!! At least that one is a motion simulation ride, and for some extra $$$, you can get your picture taken on an actual bridge and poke around a bit. Come on people, if you really wanted to do something different with the franchise, Peter David's Excalibur series would be a better choice (good luck getting Ashley Judd back as Lefler though).
The plot and Harlan by The Yellow Kid	Nov 12th, 2007 07:28:20 PM
I think there is an issue with Harlan and the rights to "City". Pretty famously, there are two scripts out there. Harlan's original, which won a Nebula, and the one used to create the show, which is a rewrite. Under the WGA rules existant at the time, I think Harlan has a case. Beyond that however... This movie is going to have to be amazing to overcome this already tired plot.
Besides... by DarthFloyd	Nov 12th, 2007 07:29:32 PM
If you were a Romulan wanting to dispatch Kirk, there are other options...Eradicate the Enterprise going after the Romulan vessel from "Balance of Terror" (Conversation would go something like this...Future Romulan:"Your about to deal with a Federation Starship named Enterprise who will defeat you, but here are some really nasty future weapons that will destroy the Enterprise with one shot. Long live the Empire!" OR "There is a planet that some hippie humans named Eden. It's not a nice place, but it is in our space. Starship Enterprise will arrive at this Stardate, make sure you have enough ships to take it out" OR "If Kirk tells you the Enterprise is going to blow itself up, keep firing until you are sure there is nothing left to self-destruct" OR (Finally) "There is NO VULCAN DEATH GRIP!!!"
More Gangsters! by Aquatarkusman	Nov 12th, 2007 07:31:57 PM
I want to see 193-year-old Nimoy in a longshoreman's outfit with ear-covering wool hat!
Why Kill Young, Virile Kirk? by Aquatarkusman	Nov 12th, 2007 07:33:35 PM
Why not kill one of Kirk's grandfathers when he was a baby? Save us the FUCKING TIME!
Moondoggie... Interesting points... BUT.. by Stunt Vocalist 709	Nov 12th, 2007 07:39:37 PM
"exploration plotlines, as was the forte of TNG" Are you serious? The Enterprise D only went "where no one has gone before" maybe five times in its entire run. And all of those were by accident or because someone else(Q for one) dragged their asses out there. TNG's forte was doing milk runs in already charted territory.
Of Course, should Spock go back, he could warn himself of the fo by DarthFloyd	Nov 12th, 2007 07:44:36 PM
Hello younger version of me, here are a few things you should watch out for as you travel with these humans. First, don't volunteer for secuity postings...they always end badly. Second, when a ship named Reliant comes at you with its shields already raised, raise yours BEFORE they lock phasers. Third, your half-brother is an idiot. Forth, your father will eventually forgive you for joining Starfleet. Fifth, dad is right about Senator Pardek...he's going to sell you out. Sixth, tell James Kirk to let his half-wit replacement jury-rig the navagational deflector. Last, the incriminating uniforms with Klingon blood will be in the officers's mess, in a ventilation shaft. Can't miss them, they're white with Peptol Bismol sploches. Your replacement is the one who puts them there and kills the assassins. Live Long and Prosper - Your Older Self.
I wish they'd cover Harlan Ellison in invisotext... by MrMysteryGuest	Nov 12th, 2007 07:48:15 PM
:P
Oh, and about DS9.. by Stunt Vocalist 709	Nov 12th, 2007 07:48:24 PM
Moondoggie, you are right to praise DS9. But it's no secret that the last four seasons of DS9 happened because of Babylon 5. Long story arcs, broader scope, space battles with more than 5 ships at a time, etc. Not to mention many 'borrowed' lines (such as "That's an awful lot of ships.") and even borrowed titles of episodes. So at it's best (yes, the last four seasons of DS9 were definitely some of the best Trek ever) DS9 was less than original. Lots of fun to watch, though. And very re-watchable, moreso than 95% of TNG.
exploration includes more than space, stunt by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 07:49:02 PM
And yes, I am serious. TNG had waayy more exploration plotlines than TOS, where the show quickly turned into battle of the week plots and costume shows (gangster land, wild west land, etc.)
J.J. is not that talented a story teller. by greenstyle92	Nov 12th, 2007 07:56:00 PM
Mostly, he's from the modern "Mega Ultra Plot TWIST!!!MIND FUCK!!!" school of writing. Shymalan by way of Joss Whedon. And twists aren't that great usually. From the way things are shaping up, it's not a straight reboot, but more like a Crisis storyline. Romulans try to fuck up history. Spock tries to unfuck up history. Spocks efforts lead history to being fucked up anyway. So basically, it IS a reboot. Just connected to the original by way of alternate timelines. Ho-hum. I hope Ellison manages to totally derail this thing, or force Paramount to cough up a couple a hundred thousand dollars for the rights.
You crazy guys, a different trek would not have gotten by messi	Nov 12th, 2007 07:57:06 PM
the budget, the cast or the director. putting back Kirk, Spock and McCoy enured all that. think like a producer but it's star trek the original with a twist.
Plot won't work because Starfleet's temporal by Grammaton Cleric Binks	Nov 12th, 2007 07:58:36 PM
agents from some timeship such as Relativity will notice the changes, and stop the Romulans before they start. By the way, if Romulans are so smart why didn't they just do this in the TOS or TNG. Suspending canon (or is it cannon) aside, it sounds somewhat intriguing.
Let's do the Time Warp again- LMFAO by Grammaton Cleric Binks	Nov 12th, 2007 08:00:11 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =dfx8Nc6VKnI
The script that Harlan himself wrote... by Zeke25:17	Nov 12th, 2007 08:00:56 PM
...is not the property of Desilu-Paramount; it's the ORIGINAL version that was returned to him. According to the "separation of rights" clause in the WGA's Minimum Basic Agreement, that version of the script is his, he owns it, that's it, the end. Thus, any elements FROM that script that were used in the version that was ultimately televised...he deserves credit for. And if this is the best JJ can come up with; well...who the fuck is gonna cough up ten bucks to see THAT?
Shuttlepod... by Zeke25:17	Nov 12th, 2007 08:04:44 PM
So...all those hundreds of thousands of words he's put out since the sixties, all those awards he's won, all the accolades he's received despite most people believing him to be a cranky asshole...not creative enough for ya?
leave time travel to The Doctor by lynxpro	Nov 12th, 2007 08:10:17 PM
...and I don't mean the hologram one from Voyager. Besides, I thought Picard destroyed all of these time portals back in TNG. I hope Harlan hammers them big-time. He should hold out for a few million plus the demand that Ryan Reynolds plays young Kirk.
Did anybody else think of Comic Book guy... by qweruiop	Nov 12th, 2007 08:10:27 PM
when reading that harangue from Harlan. All that surly geeky sarcasm. I think he was the inspiration for that character. Uh-ho, now he's going to go sue Fox, Matt Groenig (sp?), Microsoft (since the character was undoubtedly scripted on a Windows-based PC), and the US government for allowing this to happen. Happy suits Harlen. You're the reason contingency lawyers are a bane within America's judicial system.
JJ's Superman Script in Smallville... by lynxpro	Nov 12th, 2007 08:17:44 PM
Call me crazy, but it seems like elements of JJ's kraptacular Superman script is ending up being adapted into this season of Smallville. I swear that Department of "Domestic" Security agent is going to be revealed as a Kryptonian, just as Lex was in JJ's script.
Proof he is an ass. by badboymason	Nov 12th, 2007 08:20:09 PM
Just like Alan Moore - he may be a "genius", but why isn't his first reaction a simple inquiry to Paramount stating his legal case without the hyperbole and self-promotion. While Moore may be only slightly deranged, Ellison always sounds like, and is, an egotistical prick.
It's going to be good guys by i.baronvladimir	Nov 12th, 2007 08:20:26 PM
the star wars prequels sucked so much it's easy to be cynical bout any big sf rehash, but everything about this project looks cool. there are a dozen huge movies coming out in 08 and look how many talkbacks are about trek 11 - it's going to be huge, and good.
Spock Just Came Back In Time To Tell Me... by thelordofhell	Nov 12th, 2007 08:25:03 PM
This movie is going to suck and make maybe 60-70 million TOPS at the box office and Star Trek will never be seen again on any screen.
Harlan less powerful than the Nation estate by lynxpro	Nov 12th, 2007 08:27:55 PM
Sheesh, that Terry Nation Estate always seem to have the BBC by the ballz when it comes to the Daleks. The writers in the UK seem to have a lot more power proportionately in terms of their creations. In terms of the Whoniverse, the BBC has to negotiate for usage of the Daleks, the Sontarans, K-9, and a plethora of other properties.
Harlan Ellison's Guardian of the City on the Edge of Forever by Ivan_Mtl	Nov 12th, 2007 08:27:59 PM
Let me just preface this by saying that Harlan Ellison is one of my all-time favorte writers. I remember very vividly reading my first Ellison story in school ("Repent, Harlequin!" said the Tick-Tock Man) and being completely enthralled. Later, I eventually discovered that he also wrote the original story for one of my favorite movies, "A Boy and His Dog"... two of the best episodes of the original Outer Limits ("Soldier" and "Demon With A Glass Hand"), and my favorite episode of Star Trek - the award-winning "City On The Edge Of Forever." Oh, as a Canadian, I also have to mention a series that Mr. Ellison would rather forget, The Starlost (whose concept had me glued to the television set). Anyway, I was lucky enough to meet Mr. Ellison at a comic book convention a few years back, and he did not disappoint. I think he is a truly genuine guy, obviously very intelligent on numerous subjects, and extremely funny. Having said that, I fear that he may find himself in a similar situation as did comics legend, Jack "King" Kirby. Everyone knows the contributions he made to Marvel Comics (hell, he basically almost created their entire line of comic book characters single-handedly), but he was never able to enjoy the financial rewards of the company's success because he worked under a "work-for-hire" agreement. I am sincerely hoping that this was not the case for Mr. Ellison when he worked on the original Star Trek series, but I suspect it may be the case. The reason I do so is because I recall an episode of the Star Trek animated series that featured the Guardian from "City On The Edge Of Forever." The episode had Spock travel back in time to Vulcan during a ritual that he underwent as a child. There, he met his parents, and we finally saw the "teddy bear" (albeit with huge fangs) that was once referenced in the original live-action series. If Mr. Ellison was not financially renumerated for that episode, then I can't imagine he will be for this new movie's plot device. Besides, couldn't the film's writers simply have the Romulans travel back in time like the crew of the enterprise did aboard the Klingon ship in Star Trek 4? To paraphrase Ricky Bobby, " just go fast!"
Spock also told me.... by thelordofhell	Nov 12th, 2007 08:28:11 PM
that "The Ballad Of Bilbo Baggins" is going to be remade by Smashmouth and put in the new "Hobbit" movie directed by Michael Bay.
Moondoggie.. Costume shows... by Stunt Vocalist 709	Nov 12th, 2007 08:31:12 PM
True, TOS devolved into too many costume shows. TNG did the same thing in the holodeck- over and over and over. If TNG had more exploratory plotlines than TOS, it was only a few more. Which is a shame, considering TNG had many, many more episodes. And yet, they only actually explored unknown space a few times in the entire run. If it wasn't for Q and Barclay screwing up, oh, and that time curious aliens pulled them outside of charted space... Only a handful of truly "where no one has gone before" episodes. Far more costume shows in holodecks, or Klingon costume shows, or diplomatic missions. Which was damn frustrating considering what a long run that show had. BTW, Moondoggie, you've made some great points throughout this talkback- kudos.
ZOMG!!!! TIME TRAVEL AGAIN ... WOOO HHOOOOO!!!!!! by BringingSexyBack	Nov 12th, 2007 08:43:30 PM
This must be the special 500th time travel story we've been anticipating for years. Thank you JJ!!!!!
WHY DIDN'T THEY GO BACK IN TIME AND KILL HITLER? by BringingSexyBack	Nov 12th, 2007 08:45:05 PM
and play the winning Mega Ball numbers and buy Google stock?
Hey, dont forget to pat yourself on the back, stunt by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 08:53:29 PM
And I do agree about the holodeck episodes in TNG (although, if you'll note, the lion's share took place during the first two heavily roddenberry-influenced seasons. I aint saying that TNG was scott free in the raspberry department, its just that I really enjoyed the more heady trek just as much as the ballsy original trek. Of course, I'm a huge fan of the Picard character as a whole, so maybe that helps?
By the way, Stunt, by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 08:59:52 PM
it was funny you mentioned The Nth degree episode--i was thinking that the moment you brought up TNG's involuntary explorations. Spooky! There were other exploratory episodes, though, that occurred of their own volition, but you have to keep in mind that drama requires exterior forces, so there really isn't much room to maneuver in writing. Still, I still stand by my conviction that TNG was more exploratory in nature. Hell, Picard was every bit the captain of exploration, moreso than Kirk, I would say. Not to say that Big Jim didn't have his own highmarks, it was just different. Also, I think the acting was superior in TNG, but the origional crew had a lot more penache and chemistry. In my view, I think both shows were on equal footing when it came to level of love, respect, and intelligence.
Harlan Ellison is always angry by Sick Fixx	Nov 12th, 2007 09:01:06 PM
He's a seriously disagreeable fellow. He even argued with Penthouse Magazine because they insisted that the g in God should be capitalized for grammatical reasons and he fought with them over that, if tou can believe it. Still, that's what we all love about Harlan.
Really, Sick? He bitched about capitalization? by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 09:03:04 PM
Pomposity knows no boundary, does it?
Isn't this Terminator 2...but this time with pointed ears? by Alice Cooper Stalker	Nov 12th, 2007 09:05:47 PM
Isn't that the plotline for Terminator 2? This is targeted at Sci-Fi fans. Why steal the plot of another key film milestone in sci-fi history? A film and plotline we would know well. Maybe Old Spock will have a line something like, "Come With Me If you Want to Live."....or the Romulans will say, "I'll be Back."
ST:29th Century TIme Cops by captain_kirk	Nov 12th, 2007 09:19:18 PM
Look, if the muscles from brussels shows up in the movie, i'd find it modestly amusing. other than that, the time cops aren't perfect. they'd sense a disturbance in the force, butthat doesn't mean they would act on it as fast as spock could under time constraints. also, do we even know if spock knows about the 29th century timecops?
Harlan Ellison will rape you by Pipple	Nov 12th, 2007 09:23:19 PM
Rape you like in prison.
i feel for ellison by captain_kirk	Nov 12th, 2007 09:25:21 PM
heck, he created the single most influential episode of science fiction television ever. but maybe a fat chunk of money would smoothe over the studio whoring? paramount can't afford negativity from the establishment on this one, and probably should have asked nicely first. cool that peter david was involved.
Romulans go back in time to save Edith Keeler! by YackBacker	Nov 12th, 2007 09:35:01 PM
Oy, these plot rumors sound discouraging. Time travel is so fucking done with. After years of dealing with it on Trek, we have to go through it all over again on Heroes and NOW back to Star Trek again? There's a whole fucking UNIVERSE out there... yet so few plots apparently? Blech.
Nothing wrong with time travel by badboymason	Nov 12th, 2007 09:38:24 PM
but it was never the MAIN POINT of Star Trek. The way to reboot Trek is to "explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and civilizations". Kirk, Spock, McCoy and a ship find a wierd planet/race and some shit happens. A time travel, reality crossing, Romulan plot is not the way to bring the masses back to Trek.
badboymason by odo19	Nov 12th, 2007 09:51:26 PM
the last time we had a movie about exploring new planets and civilizations, with new bad guys we had never seen we got Insurrection.
Thank you, badboymason! by Stunt Vocalist 709	Nov 12th, 2007 09:55:27 PM
NEW worlds, NEW life, NEW civilizations. Places that have NO reference in a database. "Where NO ONE has gone before." Writing the drama should be no problem. Conflict can come from previously UNKNOWN exterior forces. And it would be a huge success if done well.
And just to clarify... by Stunt Vocalist 709	Nov 12th, 2007 10:00:30 PM
I was not saying that Insurrection provided anything new- I got badboymason's point that it was just rehash. Hence my thanks. I don't expect anything really new in the Star Trek universe for years, if ever. They don't have the guts to really explore.
Very good point, Stunt by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 10:04:44 PM
Star Trek as a franchise is stalled and no one seems to want to do anything new. I'm a die-hard TOS and TNG fan and even I am just sick of all the new incarnations, crappy films, and poor leadership. Of course, that is what you get when a franchise has to many cooks in the kitchen: banality.
Shuttlepod_10, I'm guessing you never read David's IMZADI by SpyGuy	Nov 12th, 2007 10:05:04 PM
Which, coincidentally, also featured the Guardian of Forever. An awesome book by Peter David, even if he does have waaaaaay too much of a man-crush on Harlan Ellison.
err..TOO, not to. damn typos. by moondoggy2u	Nov 12th, 2007 10:05:27 PM

Harlan "sues-a-lot" Ellison by Utamoh	Nov 12th, 2007 10:20:28 PM
Yes, Harlan Ellison is a great writer. He is also the world's angriest man, and would sue you at the drop of a hat. Odds are he's the victim of yet another rumor spun out of control.
Indirectly ties in with Enterprise (the series) FutureGuy? by Prof. Pop-Cult	Nov 12th, 2007 10:27:59 PM
JJ Abrams doesn't have to spell it out exactly in this movie, but it sure sounds like he is hinting that there could be a connection to the FutureGuy character in the Enterprise series (who was never revealed). So FutureGuy used the Guardian of Forever?
I thought Harlan Ellison was dead by rsswope	Nov 12th, 2007 10:43:32 PM

I love Ellison, he's such a kvetcher. by AnnoyYou	Nov 12th, 2007 10:47:12 PM
Also, he's totally litiganous, so Abrams had better watch his step. I mean it -- when faced with someone even touching his stuff without his permission, Harlan is like a dog with a bone. That said, if these are actual plot points for the new movie, I call stupid. And hackneyed. How many times did successive ST franchises use similar storylines? About a thousand. Jesus. So much for the "all new re-imagining of the story."
I can't stand Ellison. I can't stand Time Travel. by NoDiggity	Nov 12th, 2007 10:51:36 PM
Really, the "Guardian of Forever" episode is one of the worst Star Trek episodes. Why is everyone so geeked out about it? It's overly sentimental, it's illogical to the extreme, the Guardian of Forever device is a super lazy Disaster-Ex-Machina, with no explanation for it's existence, without even any sense to it's name (it's a Guardian, (of the timeline?) but it's sole purpose seems to be to let idiots jump into the past and mess that timeline up?). Peter David's "mancrush" on Ellison is contemptible. Why, before he's discovered all the facts, would he go tattle to this hypertensive, egotistical blowhard, and risk him having a stroke over it? I hope Abrams just write the Guardian out of the script, and replaces it with a Cthulhoid guardian of a wormhole or something. Fanboys, justify that "Guardian of Forever" episode as being the best ever episode of Trek. How can you?
Somebody up there mentioned the phlebotanum by phool2056	Nov 12th, 2007 10:58:42 PM
That is the biggest problem with Star Trek in general. I love the shows, really every one of them, except I've never seen an episode of Enterprise, but anyway, most episodes are resolved by some new, unheard-of combination of multisyllabic nonsense words intended to sound science-like being put together, at which point everyone stresses out and maybe someone has to pull a fancy lever. I understand that the target audience after a while consisted entirely of engineering students with complete schematics of every ship in the fleet, but I like my phlebotanum to facilitate the story, not dictate it.
You forgot to mention... by ccchhhrrriiisssm	Nov 12th, 2007 11:00:55 PM
1. Young Spock mind-melds with Old Spock, thereby letting him know EVERYTHING about the future. -and- 2. Old Spock dies in the past, in the arms of Young Kirk and Spock. Good stuff.
Ellison can blow me. by Babba-Booey	Nov 12th, 2007 11:02:41 PM
FUCK ALL THE UNIONS, FUCK THESE PRETENTIOUS WRITERS, AND FUCK THESE CAPITALIST DOUCHEBAGS IN HOLLYWOOD. SOCIALISM NOW!!
Oh...and... by ccchhhrrriiisssm	Nov 12th, 2007 11:04:51 PM
...young Spock realizes that he should change NOTHING (a sub-condition of the Prime Directive), but we learn at the end of the film that old Spock and old Kirk both live and appear at the end of the film. You heard it here FIRST!
The reason you can't kill Kirk's Grandpa... by Bobo_Vision	Nov 12th, 2007 11:12:49 PM
...is because Kirk's Uncle cured cancer. And you can't kill Baby James Kirk, because Baby Kirk gave the chicken pox to Flurg in Trek DayCare, and Flurg died of complications. Flurg was going to be a tyrannical dictator who kills millions. This will all be explained in the movie in one hour of pure exposition.
yawwwn by slkboxrman	Nov 12th, 2007 11:45:34 PM
sounds horrible, and im so geeky when it comes to trek i can name alot of episodes of next gen from one scene alone...rehashing the guardian of forever is lame, and the romulans using it to go after one man, kirk, boring....first contacts plot made more sense in the fact that the borg were targeting the most important man in star trek history....without cochranes warp flight, no first contact with the vulcans, and hence no age of peace and prosperity and technology and no federation...why go after kirk ? why the romulans ? why not the klingons, hasnt he irked the klingons alot more ? maybe its the great, great, great ,great grandson of the romulan in the cloaked warbird played by mark lenard...cmon....and what future are we talking when they say "romulans from the future" ?? the 24th century, 23rd , or 25th or up ??....ughhh.....from a big time star trek fan, sounds lame as hell.... stop going backwards ....didnt enterprise prove that dont work... go on with next gen or do a DS9 movie..... or even something original but still in the 24th century or later ....stop with the kirk and spock fixation people....i grew up with the original series and im saying it...kirk is not god, and william shatners hair is not real ...get over it
"They arrested Harlan Ellison!" "Good." by stop_saying_things	Nov 12th, 2007 11:52:09 PM
MST3K ("Mitchell," episode 512, 1993) once again nails it.
Hey Harlan! by RetroActive	Nov 12th, 2007 11:58:22 PM
Grab another double frap skim mocha latte and enjoy your biscotti while you stomp the yard. Growing babies need their energy after all...
I used to be a Jet-Ski instructor... by Galilee	Nov 13th, 2007 12:04:17 AM
I have instructed people on how to use them and which ones to buy for the past 20 years. I now want my compensation from Kawasaki.
Time travel? This don't look good by Ruthless Berserk	Nov 13th, 2007 12:30:50 AM
I got a feeling the entire production will be dogged by the issue and it is just going to be one huge monumental goat-fuck. Nimoy said it is a great script, but he may just have been seeing dollar signs at the time.
How 'bout something like by Ruthless Berserk	Nov 13th, 2007 12:44:54 AM
This snotty, wise-ass whipper-snapper Jimmy Kirk lands command of the Enterprise under dubious circumstances (a la Kobyashi maru) and finds a planet with dancing women, and cheaply dressed actors in make up (cuz it's so TOS-like). He swaggers around like Napoleon drunk on his own power.....wait, that's sacriligious. .....he meets up with a bunch of space pirates, and then fights the space kraken..no wait, been done......seriously we get back to old Trek, some weird unexplored planet with creatures that Kirk has to fight by hand, save the pretty yeoman, shoots his phaser, and whips out his communicator....aren't those all the necessary ingredients of classic Trek? Basically basic Trek is Man meets the unknown on the final frontier, and he's aboard a ship with his friends and it has a very cool military feel. Time travel??? Do something different!
Interesting. So this could reverse Kirk's death in Generations. by Prof. Pop-Cult	Nov 13th, 2007 12:53:14 AM
If the spoilers are true, then maybe Shatner is keeping mum about making a cameo in the closing scene of the movie. If Young Spock knows the future through Old Spock, then he can prevent Kirk's needless (and lame) death in "Generation". ... If Harlan Ellison threatens to sue, then they should tweak the script and maybe tie the time travel gimmick to the Enterprise series. The whole time travel thing is played out and over-used in the Trek movies and shows, of course, but if they're doing this time travel thing in this reboot movie, they might as well stick with another already established time travel arc (the Temporal War) if they cannot use the Guardian of Forever.
Rubik's Tool - NOMEKING EXPLAINS IT ALL by NomeKing	Nov 13th, 2007 12:54:07 AM
Okay, here's the dilly-o. The separation of rights agreement applies to the WGA since the 1950s. So the asshole that thinks the Desilu Contract matters is barking up the wrong hound. Under that agreement, the creator of a teleplay owns the rights to put on a stage version or to publish the actual screenplay or to make a feature film out of it. For example, the guy who wrote a TV movie like "Death Car on the FreeWay" could make a feature out of it. Except Tarantino stole the idea (again) and called it Death Proof and put the Weinsteins out of business. As Peter David says in between Hot Pockets, I digress. This also means that Glen Larsen can make a Knight Rider movie for The Weinsteins (if they were still with us) because he created the characters and show and wrote the pilot. BUT, NBC can and is making a TV show so that screws the movie up the blowhole. NOW, what the Cranky Midget Ellison is claiming is that separation of rights allows the guy who created Cousin Oliver in the last season of Brady Bunch to go make a feature out of him. Is this true? NO. Ellison has the rights to publish his script ad inifitum (and has) and to never publish Dangerous Visions 3 even though the authors continue to die off, but the rights to some peripheral characters on a well known show would not be his. This is NOT like Gaiman creating Angela for McFarlane. Indeed, if this WERE the case then Harlan could contact Sideshow Toys and commission a Guardian model post haste. He hasn't and he can't. Remember, this is the guy who recently sued Fantagraphics because they pointed out he didn't pay his bills for a previous lawsuit that an interview he did caused. The only author I have EVER heard of who had a club form made up of haters, the ENEMIES OF ELLISON. Who sued AOL because some dipshit was putting up his short stories. The only thing he really wants to do is sue the Lord for making him short. But he cannot. He creates this myth of being for the working stiff, but believe you me, he'll sue you in England ala Tom Cruise if he thinks it will get him 5 more minutes of notoriety. Or he'll tell you the story of how he sucker punch some old guy back in the 60s. Ah Harlan, god bless ya. (the preceding is a work of opinion -so the Nomeking don't get sued)
Larry Ellison writes books? by SkippyFlipjack	Nov 13th, 2007 12:55:59 AM
hm. didn't know that.
If they can't use the Guardian, use Enterprise... by Prof. Pop-Cult	Nov 13th, 2007 01:05:28 AM
Assuming that Eric Bana is the bad guy, all they would have to do is tweak the script just a little to include a throwaway line where we learn that Bana's Romulan character has already been hopping around time and that he first attempted to prevent the formation of the Federation. (They could have a couple of Suliban henchmen standing silently by him in a scene or two.) But since he failed at that, his next plan is to kill young Kirk. That's all they would need to do to alter the screenplay. Mainstream audiences wouldn't get lost or confused by this, and fans of Enterprise would be thrown a huge bone -- finally revealing who FutureGuy was (Bana's Romulan). I say if Ellison threatens to sue, then drop the Guardian of Forever as the time travel device and do this instead.
Shatner is lying by reflecto	Nov 13th, 2007 01:52:29 AM
He's been in the movie from the start and he's laying it on thick publicly. I've always thought so.
if spock were really logical by dr.bulber	Nov 13th, 2007 01:55:55 AM
he could go back thru time and keep the episode "spock's brain" from ever being written.
Atta Boy, Harlan- kick some ass by Laserbrain	Nov 13th, 2007 02:02:40 AM
God, this movie sounds fucked. The Kobaiyashi Maru now? I really needed to see that, JJ, coz I don't have an imagination of my own. Kinda like yourself.
That episode is one of the best T.V. moments of all time... by Kirbymanly	Nov 13th, 2007 02:35:28 AM
Nothing more be said. Kirby out.
moondoggy2u by Trader Groucho 2	Nov 13th, 2007 02:40:43 AM
exactly!
prof pop-cult by Trader Groucho 2	Nov 13th, 2007 02:46:31 AM
the only bone paramount threw trek fans with enterprise was a giant spiked ungreased bone up the bum. well, except for that two-parter where hoshi becomes empress of the mirror universe.
prof pop-cult by Trader Groucho 2	Nov 13th, 2007 02:46:32 AM
the only bone paramount threw trek fans with enterprise was a giant spiked ungreased bone up the bum. well, except for that two-parter where hoshi becomes empress of the mirror universe.
Voyager was the BEST!!! by DOGSOUP	Nov 13th, 2007 03:02:29 AM
Hahaha made you bitches look.
Mission Impossible 3 by kwisatzhaderach	Nov 13th, 2007 03:05:42 AM
was crap. Not much optimism that Abram's directing will have improved 100% in the space of a couple of years. Plus, anyone that goes around calling themselves JJ clearly can't be trusted.
Harlan Ellison vs. Norman Mailer. by TomBodet	Nov 13th, 2007 04:25:34 AM
Dang that woulda been a FUN filled Merv Griffin show to sit thru, ya think? Do you spose someone could coax Pesci Jr. there into putting some Giant Robots(TM) into the Trek Mix here? CGI Joe Pesci as Trader Vick.
I'm going forward in time 7 minutes by Iowa Snot Client	Nov 13th, 2007 04:54:18 AM
to watch the original, non-HD, GGI and gluten-free series on TV Land. 6 a.m., baby!
See? by geodesigns	Nov 13th, 2007 05:47:01 AM
Paramount showing it's true corporate colors. Pay Harlan what you will owe him for his ideas. I have grave concerns over companies like Paramount. In other words-- Paramount you fuckers-- PAY UP!!!!!!!!!!!
...and by geodesigns	Nov 13th, 2007 06:04:47 AM
... the Paramount employee who is in charge of being the "story intellectual property editor" should be fired for letting this slip by. Now, Paramount will have bad press over this, and they'll need someone to blame "for not advising JJ" of the legalities of Harlan's creations. Paramount fuckers.
Why do they need the guardian? by I Dunno	Nov 13th, 2007 06:13:11 AM
When any asshole can go back in time just by slingshotting around a star?
...so then Young Spock says to Old Spock: by TheNorthlander	Nov 13th, 2007 07:51:03 AM
"Dude, is this kinda thing gonna happen a lot on this ship?"
I Also Think Shatner Is Lying! by BojTrek	Nov 13th, 2007 07:52:03 AM
Ever since he has said "no I am not in it" and "I would never do a cameo" and "it makes bad business sense"... all that garbage... I started to think... he is trying to trick us and will appear at the end of the movie...
geodesigns by TheNorthlander	Nov 13th, 2007 08:08:24 AM
Absolutely, man! Harlan should sue Paramount's asses, and then, until they pay, refuse to direct The Hobbit!
Normally I'm pro-creator, anti-corporation. by rev_skarekroe	Nov 13th, 2007 08:26:59 AM
But not in this case. Ellison writes a good story, but there's nothing I like seeing more than arrogance getting a beatdown, and Ellison personifies arrogance.
Why don't they just call it Time Trek and get it over with? by Dave Bowman	Nov 13th, 2007 08:28:03 AM
Another movie, another two hours of space exploration ignored.
And somebody needs to fix this site. by rev_skarekroe	Nov 13th, 2007 08:28:03 AM
It sure would be nice to actually be able to READ the Talkbacks and not just look at the subjectlines and imagine what people might be saying to each other.
Shatner Cameo by Ruthless Berserk	Nov 13th, 2007 09:00:45 AM
Actually they might not have the budget to put him in, it would require liposuction and creative use of angles to make look anywhere near CK from TOS. They could however spend a million dollars to create a very lifelike CGI Kirk, this way they would only need his voice. Think about it...
When will people realize... by grendel69	Nov 13th, 2007 09:27:31 AM
That JJ is a hack. A complete and total hack. And Paramount stopped caring about Star Trek a long time ago. Hated Voyager,hated Enterpise more and this sounds terrible. No interest at all in this from what Ive been seeing. Sigh. Its just sad. I agree with the Time Trek comment. Do we really need another film about time travel???
godzilla's rearend and harlan elison.. by ironic_name	Nov 13th, 2007 10:34:25 AM
both are giant assholes.
harlan created walking - b4, ppl just stood around by ironic_name	Nov 13th, 2007 10:38:55 AM

So my post was deleted... by idahomer	Nov 13th, 2007 11:01:33 AM
Gee, I quoted this yesterday. But no credit for finding it first. Oh well.
Da Smackdown of Da Century! by Kid Z	Nov 13th, 2007 11:02:29 AM
Harlan Ellison Vs. JJ Abrams! Damn... I really sorta feel sorry for JJ Abrams... bitch is gonna be TOAST!
Rev_Skarekroe, It's Firefox's problem. IE works. by NoDiggity	Nov 13th, 2007 11:04:50 AM
Of course, it might be the site's problem too, but IE doesn't have a problem with it.
Wait, now it doesn't work for IE either. Weird. by NoDiggity	Nov 13th, 2007 11:18:45 AM

Don't care for Trek time travel. by fiester	Nov 13th, 2007 11:19:34 AM
Too confusing and convenient. Except for that long gone plotline for the original movie about a reptillian race going back in time to destroy human evolution. That was cool.
Could somebody tell me how residual works... by qweruiop	Nov 13th, 2007 11:20:06 AM
to a writer when their work isn't copyrighted, patented, or trademarked by said author. In Harlan's case he simply wrote the script and implemented an original idea that is rightfully credited in his name, but the overall script, and it's characters and ideas, are copyrighted by Paramount pictures. Otherwise wouldn't that create a pandora's box of legal issues then anytime somebody writes a new character/location/idea for a TV show, and then this aspect is further used in other episodes.
Clearing the Cache helps fix it in Firefox (Tools, Clear Private by NoDiggity	Nov 13th, 2007 11:24:36 AM

Spock travels back to the 21st century.. by DoctorTom	Nov 13th, 2007 11:41:43 AM
...where he helps Denny Crane, who has just taken on Harlan Ellison as a client to sue Paramount over creator's rights. I like Harlan and his work, but I have to admit he'd fit in very well in a Boston Legal episode.
* * * SPOILERS * * * by ccchhhrrriiisssm	Nov 13th, 2007 12:06:24 PM
1.Young Spock mind-melds with Old Spock, thereby letting him know EVERYTHING about the future. -and- 2. Old Spock dies in the past, in the arms of Young Kirk and Young Spock. Good stuff. Oh…and…young Spock realizes that he should change NOTHING (a sub-condition of the Prime Directive), but he disobeys orders. We learn at the end of the film that old Spock and old Kirk both live (due to decisions by young Spock along the way) and BOTH “appear” at the end of this film. Old Kirk is not “seen,” you simply see a silhouette standing in the doorway as Old Spock is reflecting of his actions, which are now part of his memories, but you hear Kirk say, “Are you coming, Spock?” “I’m on my way, Admiral.” This is the current plan, and you heard it here FIRST!
Might explain Shatner's absence by Piltdown Joey	Nov 13th, 2007 12:58:33 PM
Would cock block the dramatic tension to know that Spock successfully saves young Kirk from the Romulan hit men, if Shat was in it. We must assume some doubtful tension exists in order to have a movie. Shat could still make a cameo at the end when we know that all is well in the universe. Hope so.
what is wrong with this talkback? by moondoggy2u	Nov 13th, 2007 01:07:26 PM
I can't read anyone's subject lines. ERRGGGGG!!
Lyrics to the song "It's Dead Jim" by Warp 11 by warp11	Nov 13th, 2007 01:10:25 PM
This song talks about how Star Trek is dead. It the last track off the album by the same name by Warp 11. First they took my TOS Then they took my TNG Said “bon voyage” to Voyager Now there’s nothing left for me Decommissioned DS9 Now there’s no more Enterprise Erased the animated show Yeah, she met a quick demise The final frontier has been finalized There ain’t no coming back It’s getting no reprise It boldly came and went Got no Trek to represent I never thought the day Would come that I had to say It’s dead Jim Space is cold and so am I Just like Kirk my show has died Everything has gone awry I guess it’s time to say goodbye ‘Cause Scotty’s gone and so is Bones They took their final voyage home And I guess I’ve always known That some day I’d be alone Tore down the sets today Gave the plastic ears away Sold the props on eBay Left my life in disarray It’s dead Jim Until they bring it back again Warp 11: http://p202.ezboard.com/bwarp1 1bb
I like the plot by zooch	Nov 13th, 2007 01:18:54 PM
This is the first TOS Star Trek movie in a while. It is the first film involving Leonard Nimoy's Spock since The Undiscovered Country, which is always a good thing. And the film serves as a flashbacks into the lives of young Kirk and young Spock. Sounds good to me.
Is this guy bitter???? by Samuel Fulmer	Nov 13th, 2007 01:33:31 PM
or does he have a point???
Teh Shat should have a cameo in the end... by vezner2007	Nov 13th, 2007 01:37:41 PM
IMO.
Believe me... by ccchhhrrriiisssm	Nov 13th, 2007 01:43:19 PM
...this movie will be FANtastic! JJ Abrams is a huge sci-fi fan, and will make Trekkies and non-Trekkies proud! He is not making another Next Generation crapfest. Instead, he is making an EPIC film based upon a really good story. The story, from what I've heard, makes several references to Wrath of Khan without being too "preachy" or "in your face" about it. Don't worry about JJ using the money to simply make a good FX film. Abrams is focusing on creating a poignant, well-acted film of epic proportions. He just has the opportunity (for the first time in regards to Trek) to spend $170M on the film (with over $100M going to sets, fx, and plot devices). This will be the Star Trek film of all Trek films, and the one by which all other Trek films (and most other sci fi films) are judged!!! CAN'T WAIT!!!
can you build some sort of rudimentary lathe? by ironic_name	Nov 13th, 2007 01:48:45 PM
by grabthars hammer.. what a savings
harlan sued a total stranger who said "so sue me" by ironic_name	Nov 13th, 2007 01:51:46 PM

he created sue-yu, but prmnt renamed him sulu by ironic_name	Nov 13th, 2007 01:53:54 PM

so he sued paramount by ironic_name	Nov 13th, 2007 01:54:42 PM
with a paralegal.
he cut himself shaving, and sued himself 4 injury by ironic_name	Nov 13th, 2007 01:56:28 PM
a boy named sue
There's no need to cover this whining dolt in invisotext... by JackPumpkinhead	Nov 13th, 2007 01:57:51 PM
If you just cast your eyes above the level of your knees, you won't notice Ellison, anyway.
he had to pay himself $500 in emotional damages by ironic_name	Nov 13th, 2007 02:00:08 PM

ellison: "what would you say to a little fuck?" by ironic_name	Nov 13th, 2007 02:02:04 PM
TALL WOMAN: "hello, little fuck."
They better contact Ellison, cause by Reel American Hero	Nov 13th, 2007 02:05:06 PM
That sounds like a good plot, and it would be kind of cool to see the Kobyashi Maru test scenario.
Kobayashi Maru Acid Test SPOILER by irrelevntelefant	Nov 13th, 2007 02:28:45 PM
jj changed it for the movie- it's going to be the "dance-dance kobayashi maru test" SKITTLES!!!!
White screens are way better than comments by TruPhan	Nov 13th, 2007 02:47:19 PM
Because Ain't It Cool's news stories are the major draw around here anyways...
I canna change the laws of whitescreen physics by moondoggy2u	Nov 13th, 2007 03:17:20 PM

LOL@ Harlan calling someone arrogant. by SG7	Nov 13th, 2007 04:30:56 PM
...seriously. He's like the God of Arrogance.
Whoa. This Ellison dude looks like an elderly woman by Kurzinski Valentine	Nov 13th, 2007 04:34:24 PM
http://www.midamericon.org/pho toarchive/06worldcon224.jpg
Put me in with the "tired of time travel" crowd by 5 by 5	Nov 13th, 2007 04:48:30 PM
This is an over used plot device. I'm not slamming the movie, but damn folks. This is intellectual laziness.
One way "Guardian" could work for me: by kabong

Talkbacks

Updated with words from Harlan Ellison! Many Such Journeys Are Possible!! Details On STAR TREK’s Plotline??