Ain't It Cool News: The best in movie, TV, DVD, and comic book news.

Kring Apologizes
To HEROES Fans!!

Tim Kring has a beer with Hulk Hogan and cheats on his wife! by ilovethe80s	Nov 7th, 2007 02:18:48 PM
Damn You Michael Bay! I always wanted to type that.
what exactly is a Heroes reboot for volume 3? by just pillow talk	Nov 7th, 2007 02:24:06 PM
One would hope that what has happened before is not ignored, nor the sporadic introduction to their powers once again. Good to hear that the next two episodes are good as well, at least according to EW.
Of course pacing is slow, just like last season's soap opera by rectalscan	Nov 7th, 2007 02:37:58 PM
That's why I stopped watching mid way through the first season. Talking heads, only fraction of a second action set pieces or FX. Too many lousy, boring sub-plots. Please we NEED more writers strikes. The writers in hollywood SUCK and need to be fired. They should NEVER have a union. They should be hired by their TALENT. Which 95% of prime time is missing. They can go to hell, and fire the talking head/actors next. PLease start with burning James Belushi at the stake??!!
the WHITE SCREEN OF DOOM isn't stopping by just pillow talk	Nov 7th, 2007 02:40:51 PM
me from posting to this thread, yet this thread seems to be missing from the Home page...
see Ororo...it exists... by just pillow talk	Nov 7th, 2007 02:50:24 PM
if you manage to find yourself here that is...
Sorry Pillow by ororo_munroe	Nov 7th, 2007 02:55:10 PM
I couldn't find it. Poor pillow is the current victim of the white page of doom. Is there no stopping the beast?!
I managed to elude the beast for a bit... by just pillow talk	Nov 7th, 2007 02:57:10 PM
It must be slayed and then grilled into little WHITE SCREEN OF DOOM burgers.
Fantastic article! by ororo_munroe	Nov 7th, 2007 03:01:18 PM
I'm so glad he realizes the mistakes. Usually, he stays away from fan reactions, because they are so far ahead. Romance is killing the show. I can't believe he called the boyfriend a dud though. Poor guy will probably never get another job in Hollywood.
Nice to see that he actually pays attention by Aloy	Nov 7th, 2007 03:09:52 PM
I give him cred for that. I've been doing powerwatches 2-3 at a time with the commercials removed and seem to enjoy this season more that way. Agree on the Hiro/past thing as he roams the hills of California pretending he's in Japan.
ororo... by MisterE	Nov 7th, 2007 03:21:40 PM
To be fair, the wording of the article does not actually have Kring calling anyone a dud. That was text from the article's author, Jeff Jensen, unless Tim Kring has a tendency to refer to himself in third person. From the article: "Kring regrets sticking Claire with a super-dud boyfriend..."
Too little, too late by AlwaysThere	Nov 7th, 2007 03:44:07 PM
The strike is another nail in this coffin.
Okay. by CatVutt	Nov 7th, 2007 03:53:30 PM
I stopped watching in the middle of an episode about three eps back, but I'm as much a sucker for a good Mea Culpa as the next guy. I'll sit the rest of this arc out, read some summaries, and try it again when it comes back. I'm pretty sure Kring is not really the guy to make this into a must-watch show (To be fair, I wasn't all that thrilled with Season One either, but it had enough newness to the twists and turns to keep it moving at the time, I thought. And the fact that it's taken a litany of fan complaints to enact change in the first place, demonstrates a real lack of vision for the season), but at least he IS listening. So on that basis alone, I'll give it another shot. But when it comes back. I cringe at the thought of jumping back into what is already mind-numbingly dull, and sure to be a truncated arc now.
Eat your words ECL by huh-what	Nov 7th, 2007 03:54:07 PM

Eat your words ECL by huh-what	Nov 7th, 2007 03:55:14 PM
oh wait Kring agreed with everything you've been saying. hahahahaha
This is the best news I've heard all day by Reel American Hero	Nov 7th, 2007 03:58:02 PM
The show last week finally started to pick up the pace, and I'm glad that the show seems to be improving. I wonder if we'll be getting a cheap season 2 box set or if volumes 2 and the upcoming 3 will all be categorized under Heroes Season 2.
Refreshing by fiester	Nov 7th, 2007 03:59:52 PM
To actually see someone recognize and admit to such missteps and vow to correct them. If only more shows would read the boards here!
Not bad, but he needed to add by chrth	Nov 7th, 2007 04:00:39 PM
"We'll be bringing ChrTh onboard forthwith" PS: Since there were some doubters, I will be posting a scene from the TV Show Numb3rs in the Heroes talkback on Monday to demonstrate my 'skills' PPS: Reaper was great last night. I loved "I'm sorry I forced Lauren on you Sammy. I didn't realize you were homosexual ... That's the sound of every man on the planet laughing at you"
That still doesn't explain why Season Ones finale sucked... by superhero	Nov 7th, 2007 04:03:26 PM
Sorry, but it did.
as a fan of lost, i'm enjoying this by Winterchili	Nov 7th, 2007 04:06:45 PM
but yeah i hope it gets better too
Reel American Hero... by MisterE	Nov 7th, 2007 04:08:46 PM
DAMBIT, I never thought about the possibility that Season 2 would be sold as two boxed sets. If the season is split, then they really need to refrain from any outrageous price gouging. That kinda crap kept me from buying season 2 of Battlestar Galactica. Maybe the shows use the same marketing department, given the relationship between NBC and the SciFi Channel.
ilovethe80s use your spellchecker. It's CHEETS by Det. John Kimble	Nov 7th, 2007 04:11:56 PM
And I'm pretty sure it all has to be uppercase too.
Why doesn't he steal time as well as materials! by captboulder	Nov 7th, 2007 04:16:53 PM
Seriously, next year he should steal better storylines and quit trying to make it his own!
2 sides by Darth_Valinorean	Nov 7th, 2007 04:17:37 PM
I like that he is listening - heck, he HAS TO!!! Ratings are going down faster than brains down Sylar's gullet. He better listen if he wants to keep his job ... oh wait .. strike.. Never mind. Romance in itself is not a bad thing for TV and a show like this, but do it right. Do it the right way. Do not introduce annoying and painful characters like the Jose Twins - just like the Superpower family of Micah and his Annoying Parents. Have a good plot with a good storyline with good twists. Not a twist (Adam is T.Kensei) that fans can see in Ep2 of the season. Put in some more effort. And not everything has to revolve around 4 heroes all the time and a world crisis. Make the danger real and make it count. Ooooh a virus... what next? Nuclear bomb... oh wait.. too late.
by Chriss	Nov 7th, 2007 04:18:50 PM
> If you're going to write a show about superheroes, please please please read some comicbooks. This is hard because he can easily be accused of plagiarism, however I think it's pretty obvious he had read storylines and character bios.
IAmMrMonkey by TheNothing	Nov 7th, 2007 04:19:18 PM
Well-spoken.
I agree with Tim Kring by zooch	Nov 7th, 2007 04:26:36 PM
However I stand by my opinion that the fans have been unfair on Season 2.
everyone read by zooch	Nov 7th, 2007 04:36:23 PM
this TVguide.com interview with Tim Kring and Jeph Loeb about where the season is going. In it he says Mohinder was "was conceived to be the one guy in this vortex who does not have special abilities". Hana will be back sometime, but Claude will not be this season. Niki's only power is super strength and was only discovered through her split personality. http://www.tvguide.com /news/heroes-tim-kring/071 107-01 remove spaces. He sums up alot of people problems with new characters "Heroes is like a shark — it's got to keep moving, if this world becomes too insular — if it's only about the characters we've gotten used to — then we lose the sense of wonderment that this phenomenon is happening in many places." Loeb reminds us that several of the old favorites — Peter, Claire, Niki, Micah, Matt, Sylar — in essence started over this season "and that required new locales and new characters for them to interact with. And the new powers are fun for the audience to watch." Those who are crabbing about too many newbies "should be patient," Loeb says. "They haven't gotten to the Dec. 3 episode, when we do our big housecleaning!"
HEROES Is Improving by Barron34	Nov 7th, 2007 04:38:48 PM
The past episode was very good, but it still doesn't make up for the sluggish pace of the first five or six episodes. It is too bad. I'm not sure that HEROES needs a total reboot. They have most of the proper ingredients for success. Their problem has been lazy execution, not a lack of the right elements for a good story. There needs to be fast pacing and good action, logical drama and characters that are sympathetic, believable, and interesting. As far as romance goes, I think that if it is done succinctly and believably, there is room for it. It just should not drag or distract from the main action. Also, Hiro in the past was bad because it dragged on with a lot of narration and offscreen action, not because the idea of Hiro in another time was inherently a bad idea. In fact, Hiro going back into the past makes a certain amount of sense given his powers. The problem with the Feudal Japan story was that it dragged on and on with little or no action. The last episode was done very well in this regard: Hiro finally went into action. There was conflict, high stakes drama, and action. Hiro was involved in a believable sword-fight, he blew up a cache of dangerous weapons and stopped a warlord from ruining Japan, and he made an enemy in Adam Monroe. The brief romantic interlude with the Princess was fine, and did not detract from the episode. So, Hiro in the past is not inherently a poor idea; it was just executed sluggishly. Anyway, things are picking up. If the producers can maintain the pace and quality of this past episode for the remainder of this story arc, they should do well. Again, I am wary of the idea of a total re-boot. The problem is not in the characters and story ideas so far, but rather that the execution has been slow, poorly dramatized, and lacking in apparent motivation and logic. I hope they do not kill off key cast members and do radical surgery. That would be the wrong move. Part of what fans want, I think, is to see logical character development for many of the season one characters. What is frustrating is poor execution, not the characters themselves. To get rid of many characters and do a radical change for the series would be a poor move. What I personally think should be done is to see a serious progression of where the characters are in the fictional world. I would like to see the characters go through the types of changes that led them to be the characters that they were in season one's "Five Years Gone". So, rather than a radical re-boot, better a well-executed, dramatic progression of the characters and their situations over time. Fans do not want to see season one re-hashed, but on the other hand, I don't think they want the baby thrown out with the bath-water. Hopefully, the writers and producers will be able to walk this fine line, and give us more of the entertaining television that HEROES has been at it's best.
WHEN WILL SOMEBODY APOLOGIZE FOR 'ACCORDING TO JIM?' by Pound Sand	Nov 7th, 2007 04:38:56 PM
A little personal responsibility would be refreshing.
This won't change anything... by DanielKurland	Nov 7th, 2007 04:45:51 PM
It's nothing new for a showrunner to admit fault, and listen to fan feedback. The same thing was done for the reception of Buffy season 6, and Alias season 3/4, but what happens every time is the creator says, "We know we made some mistakes; we've listened to fans; we're going back to our roots", and this maybe happens for one episode, and then everything goes completely back to normal. I'll be impressed when a direction for a show is completely changed due to negative reaction. It's nice for the creators to acknowledge being wrong, but to actually root up and change things is much different, and with Heroes, I don't think this statement is going to make much of a difference. The show is the same as it was last year, just the fact that it's a little slower now, and not as new, people are more perceptive to the problems that have existed from the start. I've always looked at the show as a mediocre show, with flashes of good ("Company Man"), and it is this potential to recapture that, that brings me back, not on the idea that the show has actually been consistently good, because it hasn't in my opinion, and a lot of people agree with that, and this year people are just critical enough to not have the luster of the product blind them.
i don't know why the hell he's apologizing by jarodvhale	Nov 7th, 2007 04:46:18 PM
if he hadn't been in the past for so long...there is absolutely no way my mind would have been blown as it was when Adam Munroe surfaced...seriously...I hope Kring isn't reading these boards for guidance...cause what he's doing is working.... the same thing happened last year...they spent four eps setting up backstoreis....and then because they did their job....the rest of the season worked....well everything but the season finale..(which I still think should have been two hours...) don't change a thing...
Please no Mohinder in the shower by Domi'sInnerChild	Nov 7th, 2007 04:46:48 PM
If HRG walks in on him and it all turns out to be some Swiss dream, it's off the que.
Just don't get carried away.. by Ironmuskrat	Nov 7th, 2007 04:47:05 PM
Heroes certain has had it share of flaws this season, but the last episode showed that they can be overcome without too many changes. and yes, please kill off Claire's superdud boyfriend. Claire's storyline is starting to look like a bad Disney channel show.
Heroes sucks! by Saltoner	Nov 7th, 2007 04:48:52 PM
Shouldn't you figure out a good way to tell your story before the start of the season? Sounds like shotty writing (as usual) again.
Considering they're on strike by photoboy	Nov 7th, 2007 04:57:05 PM
Are they going to be able to fix any of the problems this season or is season 2 going to end as an aborted mess best forgotten?
I've enjoyed the season, not as much as last by Larry of Arabia	Nov 7th, 2007 04:57:55 PM
The pace slowed down too much. While they do have a great overarching story to tell the individual plot lines pacing has been spotty. They also broke up the team in ways that don't make sense. How can so many of these people still not know each other?
Saltoner by Burgundy82	Nov 7th, 2007 04:58:33 PM
It's spelled "shoddy". You're an idiot.
think its cool... by oafius	Nov 7th, 2007 04:58:42 PM
that he came out and said that, and obviously it was very beneficial for him because of the forced gap in the scheduling, heroes could have lost a lot of viewers, but now theres hope that they're going to up the ante again. that said i was still liking it anyway, although agreed, it hadnt quite kicked into full gear until the episode just aired. by the way Darth_Valinorean, a virus that got wipe the entire human (super and not) of the face of the planet is a tad more threatening than a nuclear bomb that destroys a city, so i think it s an unfair criticism that its step backed. and you say that it doesn't have to revolve around a world crisis, well the last series didnt in away, it was just new york. true in the future episode the world had gone to pot a bit, but that was well into the series before that was established. it was a localised threat for the best part, and now this series they upped it to a world crisis. makes sense to me!
Good to hear by BeatsMe	Nov 7th, 2007 05:01:13 PM
I wish other showrunners paid as much attention to this kind of unified fan disappointment (final couple seasons of Buffy/XFiles, I'm looking at you!)
I'm pretty sure EW... by Burgundy82	Nov 7th, 2007 05:04:45 PM
... called West their favorite new character a few weeks ago. hurray for editorial cohesiveness.
adam/kensei, how are you shocked? by coachaaron	Nov 7th, 2007 05:05:34 PM
some of you must not think or speculate at all when you're watching this show. i've said since episode 1 that adam/kensei was responsible for hiro's fathers murder. the clues have been everywhere.
REVISIONS... by eman_1293	Nov 7th, 2007 05:08:19 PM
(1) Romance WILL work if you use the right characters. Did anyone actually believe the Claire/West pairing? Hiro/Yaeko were much more convincing. Unfortunately, Hiro's eternally screwed from having a decent relationship spanning AT LEAST half a season! The direction of this week's ep was far more superior due to believable chemistry, such as, Niki/Nathan. Hell, Matt and Niki would work! Just don't give us 'Heroes in the O.C.', aka "Smallville", ever again. (2) Try a different overall storyline. The virus outbreak is good, but shouldn't we be learning more about the elders? This volume is called GENERATIONS after all. What's the title for Volume 3? 'Viruses'? (3) Speaking of which, show more interactions. Amnesia? Mexico? Throw Claire, Niki and Elle into the same room and THEN see what happens! Seriously, what is the importance of the Doublemint Twins? Alejandro, maybe. Maya? She sure as hell didn't start the virus, so how is she gonna STOP it!? Just let Sylar off them. (4) Realism is the key. And don't give me the "they have SUPERPOWERS" line. You're telling NOT ONE of these people, besides Hiro, is a geek? Are we to assume ordinary humans aren't going to fight crime, Batman-style, upon discovering they can kick ass? Of course, too much realism leaves us with cheesy Katrina flashbacks and Texans hopping on the hood of illegal immigrants' cars like gorillas. So...take this one with caution. (5) Last but not least, DON'T WASTE TALENT! I'll admit I'm not the biggest fan of "Lost", but even I can see they would've given K-Bell much better material than what we've seen so far! Next week looks like an improvement, so I'll wait and see. And let's not forget David Anders. I knew Kring wasn't crazy (enough) to let such villainous talent go to waste. Julian Sark returns! Next, Nichelle Nichols...
Sorry Tim, I already stopped watching... by Logo Lou	Nov 7th, 2007 05:20:52 PM
On the plus side, I have switched my extra viewing hour to a fellow NBC show, "LIFE," which is fucking awesome.
PC Latino superheroes make me watch FOX by JeffManSixtyFo	Nov 7th, 2007 05:25:19 PM
Gimme the EXPOSE episode where Hiro and Nathan bury the wonder twins alive.I'm an American of Mexican desecent,happy to see any of my beaner bretheren on the tube,and even I LOATHE those milquetoast muchachos.Gimme back stereotyped latino heroes anyday...they NEVER caused me to fast foward the dvr or change the channel and watch K-ville.
I hope you die Gabriel by BrightEyes	Nov 7th, 2007 05:35:04 PM
you pitiful Fuck
Seriously ban this guy by BrightEyes	Nov 7th, 2007 05:36:59 PM
This is bullshit, why is this shit allowed?
Heroes and the Suspension of Disbelief by snowpuff	Nov 7th, 2007 05:37:25 PM
Hey Tim: I understand needing to reuse sets. Suspension of disbelief takes care of the Company using Issac's apartment for a lab... and Claire's new high school looking exactly like her old high school. BUT having ANOTHER disaster strike New York City? Nuh uh, man. I think Jeff Zucker could have afforded some sets for a new disaster...
Seriously ban this guy by BrightEyes	Nov 7th, 2007 05:37:39 PM
This is bullshit, why is this shit allowed?
Wow, what a douchebag. by SkidMarkedUndies	Nov 7th, 2007 05:41:09 PM
Horrible.
1982 called, they want their forum software back by snowpuff	Nov 7th, 2007 05:43:03 PM

Apology accepted, Kring by Heckles	Nov 7th, 2007 05:58:56 PM
That's pretty stand up. Admits they sucked ass, wants to fix it. Water under the bridge. Now hopefully Kring can give Ron Moore a call, give him a few words of wisdom.
I am the eggman by JeffManSixtyFo	Nov 7th, 2007 06:04:32 PM
goo goo g'joob
Thank you Mr. Kring by Bloo	Nov 7th, 2007 06:06:59 PM
for listening to our (not just AICN's but other websites) complaints, as IAmMrMonkey has already accepted your apology, I don't feel the need to reaccept it, but I will ask you to listen Hero's isn't LOST. I'm sure you know that and as you are friends with the LOST crew. What I mean by that is that a slower 1st season was fine for the first season, but one thing that the Hero's fans threw out at the LOST fans was that it answered questions must quicker. You are right, the Hiro arc could have lasted 3 episdoes, you could have even potentially done a 5 Years Gone type episdoe that revolved around Hiro just in Japan, recap him going back in the "Previously on Heros..." from the season finale and jump right into it from there, end it with Hiro disappering after destroying the warlord and telling the story of Kensi and the dragon. the fans wouldn't know for sure if Hiro would have made it back to the proper time, etc. It would also make sense for your 4 Months Gone episode as Hiro could hav epotentially landed right where he left off. You could also have him appear where he did, months later, and thus have Ando explain what happened, leading to your 4 months Gone episode. Regarding your mention that some of our "new" heros won't make it past season 2, I say keep only Monica, her story, while not perfect, does work in the context of using her within Micha's family and using Micha to help explain to her what's going on. It hasn't been perfect but it has worked better then the "Wonderless Twins", I trust you have a plan for them, but I believe, and recognize tha tyou too see, that their introduction could have been handled better. I do ask, if it's not to late, that you not give Peter the "eyes of death" but rather her brother's healing power, mainly because if he comes into contact with both of them, it will nullify the whole Ying/Yang aspect of their powers that I assume you're going for with it. Sylar can have the death abilites and Peter the healing abilites, take a page from JK Rowling "one can't live while the other survives" kinda deal, Sylar can use the "eyes of death" but not when Peter is around, so for the power to do what he [Sylar] ultimatly wants it to do, Peter must be destroyed, setting up your continual Peter/Sylar struggle
"Sorry my show is so shitty" by Guy Who Got A Headache And Accidentally Saves The World	Nov 7th, 2007 06:12:53 PM
Lost just blows this show out of the water. Where was the dude who keep ranting on about how great the 2nd season was going to be after the shitty finale
writing by committee will be the last nail in this shows by chiahead	Nov 7th, 2007 06:16:38 PM
coffin. and frankly, that pleases me. no hate to lovers of the show, but folks who love the idea of Heroes deserve so much better than this.
Yeah call him "gay" Mr Monkey, that'll show him. by Guy Who Got A Headache And Accidentally Saves The World	Nov 7th, 2007 06:25:39 PM
He'll probably stop now.
Here is an idea if you're changing things by jbs0209	Nov 7th, 2007 06:31:09 PM
How about you figure out which characters trust each other, and then have to characters give full disclosure to each other? The #1 F'ing annoying instance of this is HRG and Cheerleader. "Hey honey here is a picture of me getting shot by your boyfriend. I am a little concerned about this. You meet anyone? How can we prevent this?" instead we get .... "Don't go out with boys!" Really?!? HRG has explained about everything about The Company to her and still he can't talk about a prediction of him getting offed while Claire looks on? In Season #1 they acted more like people then they do now.
The only way he can make it up to us by Itchy	Nov 7th, 2007 06:39:01 PM
A special "extra long" episode featuring 20 minutes of Elle and Claire engaging in some topless heavy petting in the back of Claire's newly recovered Nissan. Thank you in advance.
Kring by Wrath4771	Nov 7th, 2007 06:39:50 PM
Good for Kring that he can see the flaws of this season and is willing to work to change them. Though as I said in an earlier talkback, Season 1 started slow so we shouldn't have been surprised that Season 2 took its time to get going.
I thought Tuesdays episode was a nice payoff... by Negative Man	Nov 7th, 2007 06:40:43 PM
...to the first part of the season. Several story lines concluding and yet now weaving into each other. The early pacing was kinda slow, but it's a well written show. I have a feeling most people wanted the main characters to form a team or something. I liked that they decided to, for the most part, go their own ways after their 'destiny' was complete. Also, I don't think the Hiro story was drawn out, it just felt that way because it wasn't addressed in every episode. The show is still very enjoyable either way. Though I do appreciate Kring's attention to the fan base, I'd rather he and his staff continue to write their stories how they want. Listening to fans too much will wing your way to SNAKES ON A PLANE territory.
Good I noticed how shitty season 2 has been by messi	Nov 7th, 2007 06:44:27 PM
pretty bad so far.
Only by yo' momma by Specktron	Nov 7th, 2007 06:52:38 PM
...BEEATCH. Here Troll, have some of your mother's home-made pie. she made it for the postman...
I hadn't noticed? by wintocha67	Nov 7th, 2007 07:01:46 PM
Except that everyone is foolish. And that Asian lady isn't in any way attractive which I supposed was the joke.
Burgundy82 by Saltoner	Nov 7th, 2007 07:02:47 PM
Proves my point. Heroes fans are petty mormons.
Aren't the producers of Bionic Woman doing the same thing? by Amy Chasing	Nov 7th, 2007 07:05:15 PM
making the show better because of fan comments? Does anyone know for sure? Now if only the makers of Flash Gordon would do the same. Oh, and can someone please apologise for the last season of Eureka? I swear there were more groan-out-loud moments than laugh.
Too late, the strike has wrecked the season by BrowncoatJedi	Nov 7th, 2007 07:07:24 PM
It's a show taken from better stories, anyway. Lost, Watchmen, 400, Rising Stars.
If you didn't see adam in the future coming a mile away by Novaman5000	Nov 7th, 2007 07:18:06 PM
You don't watch enough TV. That was fucking choreographed since the moment that first arrow hit him. Holy shit I was totally underwhelmed.
Um... by Kubla_Khan	Nov 7th, 2007 07:18:59 PM
I reckon admitting your own show has been bad is not good news for its long term outlook. If the creator is saying it stinks...well, let's just say if I was a cast member I might be worried about my job security.
Is Caitlin Trapped in the Future? by snowpuff	Nov 7th, 2007 07:22:15 PM
If someone leaves you in the future and then changes the past... where do you end up?
Sweet absolution... by VegasRon	Nov 7th, 2007 07:25:43 PM
...for ECL, Veritasses, CD, myself, etc. Fans of the show that rightfully and justifiably pointed out this season's serious flaws have been vindicated. So zooch, pursued and the rest of you fanboys can eat it. Now let's get this potentially great show back on track, Kring...
I'm glad people finally realize this show sucks by Rupee88	Nov 7th, 2007 07:29:52 PM
I bailed at the end of last season and my life is that much better not being frustrated by all the plot holes. I still have some hope in humanity if this show is beginning to fail in the ratings so quickly.
Saltoner by Burgundy82	Nov 7th, 2007 07:38:30 PM
I may be a lot of things, but I am NOT a mormon.
Good to see that Kring is still involved... by Yeti	Nov 7th, 2007 07:44:33 PM
The pacing was just too slow over the first 5 eps. That being said it's all uphill from here. Hope the strike dosen't fuck up the season - but if it does think of the box set next year!
Chrth... by VegasRon	Nov 7th, 2007 07:53:17 PM
...I watched my first ep of Reaper last night. I LOVED that line. The main story was a bit meh, but the interaction of the characters is great..anyway I can catch up on past eps?
Well, I thought it was fine. by ZeroCorpse	Nov 7th, 2007 07:57:54 PM
But I don't think the writers deserve residuals for Internet re-distribution. Most of us are work-for-hire. You get paid for the job-- Not every future incarnation and use of the contribution you made. Nobody in an office job ever gets paid for each copy of a report they write. They get paid once. If they'd like to hire a writer for under $35,000 a year, they can give me a call. I don't give a damn about royalties or residuals. I just want to write and collect a paycheck for it. A LOT of people do. . .
knocks by INWOsuxRED	Nov 7th, 2007 07:58:16 PM
So what the hell was the plan for Chapter 3 that it needs to be retooled so much? That assumes anything said in the appology was true. I'm also concerned about the idea that they're going to get back to the formula that worked. Isn't one of the main complaints that this season is following a formula? Each chapter should be it's own formula. I also stand by my statements that Kring is just telling you people what you want to hear. It sounds nice to think you all are to credit for the last episode, which was probably in production before any of us saw a single episode this season. Just looking at the reaction here tells me that Kring telling you what you wanted to hear was all he had to do to make you beleive it was true. The truth is the early episodes were slow, but the turning point was built around November sweeps and would have come no matter how much or little anyone bitched.
Fuck me by Dreadlock Holmes	Nov 7th, 2007 08:06:29 PM
Elvis Cole Lives was right?!!
PBB by VegasRon	Nov 7th, 2007 08:06:58 PM
Fair enough, though your tone has been pretty condescending and you've painted broad strokes towards the show's critics. You do realize there are those who just hate the show and those of us that really enjoyed S1(shitty finale notwithstanding) and have been unforgiving in our criticism of the first half dozen eps, right? And ECL. Yeah, the guy can come back with both guns blazing, but I agree with everything he's said, just not with the same vitriol to the fanboys. But enough of that, last ep was a huge step forward(still had some serious issues, though) and Kring has sucked it up and apologized, let's see if that results in anything. My enthusiasm is tempered, but there =)
yeah, Dreadlock... by VegasRon	Nov 7th, 2007 08:08:21 PM
See? You CAN be a fan and still criticize this season.
Speaking of ECL... by VegasRon	Nov 7th, 2007 08:08:54 PM
...where is you, bish??
Where exactly did he apologize? by aceattorney	Nov 7th, 2007 08:09:46 PM
I must be blind because there was no quote where Kring "apologized" for the crappy season.
No apology, per se... by VegasRon	Nov 7th, 2007 08:14:58 PM
..but an admittance of mistakes made is the same thing, in my mind, because it's going to initiate change involving almost every complaint I've had so far this season.
Intiating a change? by INWOsuxRED	Nov 7th, 2007 08:19:46 PM
The show was already changing. You mean Kring won't send Hiro back to Japan for 8 more episodes because fans complained? He won't poorly re-introduce Mya and West? Okay, great, that sounds like an appology to me too.
He sort of apologized, but the writer still twisted it by Burgundy82	Nov 7th, 2007 08:32:55 PM
The editorial staff of Entertainment Weekly is populated by the biggest batch of fickle bitches I've ever seen. That writer used a hefty dose of personal opinion and a few choice quotes to exaggerate Kring's mea culpa until the point where he's labeled "super-sorry" for the whole season. He didn't say that. Writing everything in S2 off as "a wash" is an invention of the interviewer, not the interviewee, and it's huge fucking generalization. Journalistically irresponsible and pretty much just a dick thing to do.
INWO by VegasRon	Nov 7th, 2007 08:33:23 PM
Learn how to spell before trying to engage in an argument of semantics. Or any argument for that matter. There are only 4 weeks left in this season, so obviously the annoying plot points he went over are things that will hopefully be avoided in S3.
This year is bad due to different writers by MGTHEDJ	Nov 7th, 2007 08:33:33 PM
Kring’s main problem is he lost his best staff writer from last season-Bryan Fuller. Fuller’s entire canon of shows is built around people hiding their abilities, but he always has the characters explain in a believable way why they need to stay “under the radar.” He would have helped smooth over some of the day-to-day dialogue, especially with HRG and Claire. As for the criticism about the show being just like “Smallville”, well gee, the former head writer of “Smallville” is now the #2 guy on “Heroes”—Jeph Loeb. Hopefully Kring can pull this show out from the tailspin. If he doesn’t, NBC will cancel this show and make room for Howie.------later-----m
Next ep: Hayden goes down on Inflatable Harold! by TomBodet	Nov 7th, 2007 08:34:49 PM
Film at 11, roll call at 1
EW gave Amistad a "D" by MattmanReturns	Nov 7th, 2007 08:36:16 PM
That publication is a joke. At any rate, I'm impressed with Kring, and I'll stay tuned in.
I'm less pissed at... by Burgundy82	Nov 7th, 2007 08:38:13 PM
the problems the show has had this season than I am at its creator for never holding his ground and constantly apologizing to fans. Dude, forget it, Kring. We're geeks. You can't please all the people all time, as they say, and you most certainly can't please 100 percent of the fanboy legion at ANY time.
Well, Burg... by VegasRon	Nov 7th, 2007 08:48:54 PM
we may be geeks, but we're also the viewership. He's acknowledging mistakes made that have helped in driving said viewership down.
Bionic Woman still sucks, but I can't stop watching. by JohnnyS2	Nov 7th, 2007 08:50:28 PM
That is disturbing.
A reboot... by VegasRon	Nov 7th, 2007 08:54:31 PM
...of BW is in the works for post-strike.
VegasRon are u really serious? by Dreadlock Holmes	Nov 7th, 2007 09:05:13 PM
They're gonna reboot it? Curiouser and curiouser...
2000 post? by Mixiboi	Nov 7th, 2007 09:06:52 PM
Jebus people, JEBUS
Yes Holmes by VegasRon	Nov 7th, 2007 09:19:34 PM
I'm serious. Originally it was announced for dec/jan, but with the strike....
10,9,8,7,6...... by slappy jones	Nov 7th, 2007 09:24:48 PM
sorry just counting down until heroes is cancelled.
Improve it FAST, Kring! by Queefer Bukkake	Nov 7th, 2007 09:36:36 PM
I can find a lot of other things to do at 9:00 on Mondays...
Really? by Blackguard	Nov 7th, 2007 09:46:28 PM
It took this long for him to figure this out? Weren't the complaints from last season enough to want to do better? I'm SO glad there's a strike! Back to the drawing board.....
it's "cheets" by Loosejerk	Nov 7th, 2007 09:56:26 PM
moran.
Kring has some fuckin sack to admit that. by TallBoy66	Nov 7th, 2007 10:00:46 PM
Hell, could you see the writers on Lost admiting that they've fucked around with the 1st few episodes? No way.
In the minority here... by WolfpupNX	Nov 7th, 2007 10:03:53 PM
but I liked this season quite a bit more than last. Love the Hiro Japan story...like a lot of the new characters. I dunno...it worked for me. Guess my point is, I felt like it had improved, so not everybody thinks it needs fixing.
Bacci by VegasRon	Nov 7th, 2007 10:13:47 PM
When did this epiphany hit you? I seem to remember you being a staunch defender of S2 just a few weeks ago. Maybe I'm thinking of someone else...
So where is Bonnie Hammer's mea culpa for axing DRESDEN? by SpyGuy	Nov 7th, 2007 10:30:12 PM
Not to mention replacing it with the unholy abomination pretending to be FLASH GORDON. Oh, and she'd better apologize for ECW and MANSQUITO while she's at it.
More than that, SpyGuy by VegasRon	Nov 7th, 2007 10:34:18 PM
She should be outright shot for canceling MST3K.
I'll believe it when I see it. by Ronimus Prime	Nov 7th, 2007 10:44:37 PM
It's one thing to admit something has gone wrong but it's another to actually go and fix it.
No Apology Needed by Shadowhawk	Nov 7th, 2007 10:58:29 PM
I'm a Heroes fan since day 1! I've love this little show, but thought that during the first season it rarely reached it's full potential. It was a mediocre show at best, but I loved it. "Company Man" is possibly the best example of it living up to it's potential. Season 2 really just seemed like more of the same to me. I enjoy watching the show because of the characters, and the overall arc of the stories. Not because I expect every episode to have a surprise ending. The backlash of the show this season is questionable at best as this season has really just been more of the same.
Pannetttieeerrre Nude? by PornKing	Nov 7th, 2007 11:02:40 PM
Hopefully he's listening to those viewers too. And the answer to whether she has the ever-repairing hymen of invincibility.
too late. by rsswope	Nov 7th, 2007 11:04:38 PM
My bet the writers strike goes on for a while and Heroes does not get picked up for next season.
Apology was necessary by ryanatgradschool	Nov 7th, 2007 11:09:12 PM
The finale was terrible. The climactic battle between Sylar and everyone (esp Peter & running Hiro) was awful. This season has been getting better, but compared to last year, he's made the right move to apologize. It's really pretty honorable when you think about it. Hopefully the strike will give him time to think over what has gone wrong and the best way to fix it. And as for Claire: So she's immortal?
Crack me up by Trik_Ster	Nov 7th, 2007 11:11:18 PM
nothing short of a public flogging will compensate us for our fanboi angst
Apology accepted, Captain Needa by Stereotypical Evil Archer	Nov 8th, 2007 12:06:58 AM
Time for Sylar to RISE!
the season is going fine, writers should never listen to viewers by smackfu	Nov 8th, 2007 12:25:40 AM
Because that is when their product really starts going down hill.
Smackfu... by VegasRon	Nov 8th, 2007 12:51:54 AM
...it's been going so fine that the fanbase has been steadily leaving the show since the S2 premiere. It's been going SO fine that Kring has admitted to making a lot of mistakes. You're an idiot.
VegasRon by Burgundy82	Nov 8th, 2007 01:17:22 AM
Sophomore slumps are nothing new. Every top show right now seems to have gone through a second season funk. Hell, Grey's and Desperate Houswives have been slumping ever since their debuts, and they're still on somehow. I for one think Kring is being too apologetic. If he feels something is wrong, he should just fix it and quit pouring his heart out to EW every few weeks and begging for forgivness. It comes off as weak. Anyway, I think all smackfu is saying is that, though we sometimes hatch brilliant ideas on these threads (we're especially adept at catchy nicknames), for every one of those bits of genius there are about eleventy seven that are pure shee-it. Showrunners can't just drop to their knees and fellate us to our every whim. They'd have no creative vision of their own to speak of. And before I get about five 'Heroes already has no creative vision to speak of' responses — just shuddap. I'm talkin' about geek TV in general.
VegasRon by smackfu	Nov 8th, 2007 01:31:23 AM
It is going fine, the 'fanbase' leaving are the idiots. You see the thing with the 'fanbase'...of pretty much everything that can have a fanbase, is that they think they know what they want, but they really don't, and they are chronic complainers. The same people who, after every single goddamned episode of Lost, complain about how the episode didn't reveal enough secrets for their taste. If it were up to these faggots, the entire series would have only lasted 3 episodes. Generally, whenever fans complain about the pacing of a show, it's because they want nothing but the money shots. They want more lightsabers, more smoke monsters and shocking reveals, more Jack Bauer torture scenes, more whatever. The problem is, you, and they, are children. Mewling little children who want constant gratification. You aren't mature enough to realize that if every episode of Lost contained Smoke Monster action and shocking plot reveals, that those things become meaningless the moment they become commonplace. It's a common thread to all storytelling, that the one thing that you follow the story for, the thing you are watching the show to see, is used sparingly so that when the money shots come, you actually appreciate and savor them. This is why the lightsaber fights are always at the end of a Star Wars movie, why the lions never form Voltron until the last 5 minutes, why the Terminator looses his skin in the final act, and why you try to hold off on blowing your load for as long as possible. You lack perspective, you're not intelligent enough to realize that constant gratification is not really what you want, you're children and writers as good as those on Heroes, Lost, Battlestar Galactica etc should not listen to you and trust their own instincts, especially when their instincts have been proven time and time again to pay off.
Now that Tim Kring has apologized... by tailhook	Nov 8th, 2007 01:37:27 AM
I'd like an apology from all the apologists who defended this season. You have, in short, been owned.
Kring apologizes that much of his viewing audience has A.D.D. .. by Sledge Hammer	Nov 8th, 2007 01:37:37 AM
Viewing audience don't notice, already distracted by "something shiny". News at 11.
What Kring did was cool. by warp11	Nov 8th, 2007 01:43:33 AM
Seriously, it's one thing to realize it. To have pressure from NBC. But to go to the fans and lets them know, seems like he actually cares. What about the rumors regarding him leaving the show after the Dec. 3rd ep?
Smackfu by VegasRon	Nov 8th, 2007 01:55:30 AM
Wow, you really are a fucking moron. Please, continue with your blind-ass, "there are no problems with this season" nonsense. I loved S1, except the POS finale. I don't need more lightsabers or cookie monsters or whatever flashy bits you pissed up in your fucking rambling post, to enjoy the show. What I DO need is interesting characters and plotlines. Read the TB, The Zone, and any other Heroes forum on the net, you are in the extreme minority. This season, up to this week, has been shit, pure and simple. Deny it all you want, it's the general consensus. The numbers back it up and Kring himself has admitted to it.
smackfu by Burgundy82	Nov 8th, 2007 01:56:03 AM
Should've just let you speak for yourself — you put it so much better than I did. Ah, well. The whiners feel vindicated. Let 'em. The show is still good and will only get better, as long as Kring doesn't resort to this focus-group-type thinking.
Bacci, fair enough by VegasRon	Nov 8th, 2007 01:56:33 AM
Let's hope Kring gets his shit together for S3.
Burg by VegasRon	Nov 8th, 2007 02:02:01 AM
I'm not saying Kring has to give in to any weekly focus group conditioning. And I'm not saying anyone has any better ideas in the TB. Just get back to what made this show so good in S1(again, except for the season finale). This season, up to this week, had MAJOR problems. Anyone saying anything different either has a very low standards to be entertained or is just a raving fanboy.
maybe they could reedit everything for the DVD by tendermelon	Nov 8th, 2007 02:11:24 AM
it'll never happen... but whatever
Pussy by CuervoJones	Nov 8th, 2007 02:19:32 AM
He should know that fans are always complaining
What for? by I am Batman	Nov 8th, 2007 02:38:22 AM
"I'm sorry you're all a bunch of geeks." That just doesn't sound very convincing. "I'm sorry my TV show about superheroes has jumped the shark in its second season." Why would one apologize for the inevitable? It's not like he stole money from you or kicked your grandma in the no-nos. Jesus, makes me hate his dumb crap even more when he admits it's dumb crap, but he regrets it.
I am Batman by Burgundy82	Nov 8th, 2007 02:43:08 AM
I thought we of the TalkBack faithful finally declared a moratorium on that fucking played-out phrase. You know, the one about engaging in a certain altitudinal athletic activity spanning the length of a large flesh-eating fish? I won't fucking repeat it, and you shouldn't either. Ever.
Props to the Kring! by DarkHawke	Nov 8th, 2007 02:47:03 AM
Considering all the chaos going on in Hollyweird now, it takes a pretty good pair to own up to one's mistakes like this. Good on ya, Tim! I don't think the season has been as disastrous as some would make it out to be, but they coulda tightened up A LOT of stuff, especially the Wonder Twins and the whole black-tear-death thing happening again and again and again! Here's to a short strike so Kring and Co. can make good on their promise of improved storytelling!
7% Solution vs 93% Dead of Virus by What Am I Doing 2 Myself	Nov 8th, 2007 03:17:00 AM
So Adam Monroe, founder of the 12, had delusions of Godhood and had his Company turn on him and imprison him. The only way the betrayers could feel safe and certain that Adam was completely and fianlly destroyed was to incinerate him within the heart of a nuclear blast. Unfortunately, he is imprisoned under New York City. (just my supposition...) Those with the most to lose if discovered were Linderman, the Patrellis and Nakamura. They were all corporate/finance bigigs who would have a lot to answer for if the public learned of their abilities. They manufacture bloodlines, etc. to find and create weapons to be used against Adam. Ted the exploding man was to be that weapon, with Peter there for back up, and Nathan, as a new charismatic Senator with powers, would put the world at ease with a registration act. that was the careful plan of the traitors and the founding of the Company. When the bomb fails to take out the immortal Adam, he escapes, learns the level of risk his betrayers were willing to chance for his destruction and swears to kill not only all of the traiters, but, in addition, with use of a virus manufactured from "hero" blood, destroy 93% of humankind. Everything that Hiro so loves. Just a thought... Also note, Hiro left a chick in an alternate past and Peter left one in an alternate future....will these two eventually connect? Inquiring minds want to know...
Last season's ending damaged the show by chien_sale	Nov 8th, 2007 03:39:47 AM
Personaly I was ready for something drastic to happen, somebody dying or something. Even though I loved these characters, I was ready to take a hit to make sure the ending delivered last year. But what they did was do something soft, a cop-out. It made me feel good at the moment because nobody really died on screen but it ended so much in a wimper that it was disapointing and left everybody down. For one thing doing the New York catastrophe right there already in the first season gave the audience too much of a short-term gratification. The writers and producers spent all season copying Lost and in the end tried so much to not be Lost that they figured "instead of long storyline, we're going to do quick pay-offs". Fans say they wants things but do not really want them. That's why Lost is captivating, it's an ongoing mystery and it's growing and growing with no end in sight with a few small revelations. Heroes should have done that. The NY catastrophe should have been approached heck years from now, not right away.
I disagree with him and think that he is pandering to the stupid by darth_billy	Nov 8th, 2007 03:52:04 AM
All of the reasons that he gave for the problems are actually reasons that the 2nd series has been good. The romance between Claire and that guy was lovely, the romance between Hiro and the Princess was lovely. The introduction of the other Heroes outside of the main story was exciting. The slow pace of the story was spot on...we all know that you need abit of foreplay before the final rush. What I remember from Heroes Season 1 was that each Episode was getting more and more exciting. It wasn't a simple case of getting familiar with the characters, it was more a sense of something was happening and we were getting closer to it, and things were getting more intense. I think it's a shame. The ignorant masses may want more action and more killings, but what we will have at the end of the day is a 1 dimensional shoot em up. I plead to the writers not to pander to the audience too much. Make sure tat yu keep some emotional resonance and character motivation in there.
that's good he's acknowledging it! by Judge Briggs	Nov 8th, 2007 05:01:31 AM
better get it fixed... i find myself fast-forwarding through scenes... Claire's parts and the twins... boring.
He should have just said they were ill prepared.. by Superfunhappyslide	Nov 8th, 2007 05:28:37 AM
I mean its obvouis that they have totally freestyled the first 4-5 episodes and thought 'Oh were suppose have a point?'
First thing: FIRE JEPH LOEB! by OBSD	Nov 8th, 2007 06:04:10 AM
Seriously, every bad decision Kring has made this season (and last year's finale) has Loeb's hacky fingerprints all over it. Fire that Teen Wolf writing motherfucker, toot-sweet! Oh, and don't go defending Loeb because he wrote The Long Halloween, either. One of Loeb's signature moves is to write a character as dumber than they were originally conceived, an Loeb does this in spades. The world's greatest detective can't tell by looking at a crime scene that this is the work of not one, but TWO COPYCAT serial killers? Get the fuck outta here with that shit.
Judge Briggs... by just pillow talk	Nov 8th, 2007 06:37:16 AM
I watched all the episodes from this season two nights ago, and let me tell you, skipping all of Claire, the twins, and Hiro for the first 4 episodes made for much better ones. Here's what all the fans of Heroes who were disgruntled with how this season was playing out wanted: more concise and to the point storytelling! There is nothing wrong with the 'slow pace' of storytelling, that's one of Heroes' attributes. No one is expecting one dimensional action scenes, but we are expecting a direction for the stories to flow to. It seemed like everything was just static. Like Kring said, they introduced the bomb from the get-go in S1... It seems like they are on the right track with the last 2 episodes, so hopefully all (or mostly) is right with the world.
Come on, The Long Halloween is good by CuervoJones	Nov 8th, 2007 06:57:45 AM
But Dark Victory and Hush are weak
You're wrong. by OBSD	Nov 8th, 2007 07:24:11 AM
The Long Halloween is pretty, I grant you that. It's got a good premise, and quite a good start. But when Batman gets outsmarted by a FUCKING HOUSEWIFE it stops being good. Think about it: the sequel was supposed to answer "all unanswered questions" (like how the fuck did the world's greatest detective look at all of the forensic evidence over 12 crime scenes and not notice a discepence in the patterns? and how the fuck did the Batman get outsmarted by a housewife?), but it never did. Loeb has no idea how to end a story, so he does it by turning Batman into a retard that a FUCKING HOUSEWIFE can outsmart. And he does this dumbing down over and over again in just about everything he writes.
I just LOVE the argument... by CatVutt	Nov 8th, 2007 07:33:27 AM
That those of us who've found this season to be mind-numbingly dull are somehow 'ignorant masses' and 'idiots'. Absolutely fucking hilarious. From Day One, most of the damn time, the show has been largely CRAP. It's had some atrocious acting, it's had barely speakable dialog and has consistently had characters do things in the name of the plot, rather than any reasonable form of characterization. But during the first season, it was also often quite watchable crap, with some moments of actual inspiration, a guilty-pleasure sort of a thing. So to those of you posturing as somehow more enlightened than us unwashed masses...please. Cut it out. If you like the show the way it is, great for you. But don't argue it's high art that the rest of us don't get. It's patently ridiculous.
Economy of storytelling by YackBacker	Nov 8th, 2007 07:34:53 AM
Rod Serling knew what that meant. Kring... not so much.
This show needs a bad ass by Series7	Nov 8th, 2007 07:41:19 AM
The problem is that all the Heroes are just big pussy's minus Claires Dad. They need someone who is just like fuck it and embraces their power. Just like Sylar. Thats the main problem, because it seems like Sylar can just walk through any of the heroes without a problem. They need someone who at least seems like they are not made entirely out of vagina... Peter. That and get rid of Mohinder his is the biggest pussy of them all.
HE NEVER APOLOGIZED, DOOFUSES by aceattorney	Nov 8th, 2007 07:43:16 AM
Show me where he freaking apologized.
More Monica... by Kid Z	Nov 8th, 2007 07:58:19 AM
... she has a ripoff power, but a cool ripoff power. Granted the character is miscast... she's a little too cute, but just toughen her up. Make her a sort of Robin Hood of N.O.... helping the poor and downtrodden, and sticking it to the gangsters and corrupt politicians. Kill off the Blunder Twins... STAT! Make Matt more of a badass cop, move him and Molly out of Mohinder's place and clear up his backstory. Have him legally adopt Molly, right now she's just some wayward kid that Child Services would have put in a foster home long ago. Nikkisa should be more of a wild card... you don't know what she'll do next or who she'll align with. Tie up this lame virus plotline and end it, bring back more mystery and a Darkseid-level threat on the horizon. Let Sylar be Sylar! Have Hiro evolve into FutureHiro from last season... samurai's are cliche, but still cool. Get some new writers!!! And don't count out writers with a comics background, comics have been using screenwriters for years now. Just my suggestions, but it looks like we'll have to wait until at least September 2008 to see anything new. Hope they can turn it around next season... if there IS a next season
Even those that've remained loyal and defend the show by ororo_munroe	Nov 8th, 2007 08:14:37 AM
have had problems with Claires romance, and Hiro's story seeming overly long. I still like the Wonder Twins, especially now that Sylar is in the middle of them. The only problem I had with Monica was that her accent is so bad she should just drop it.
Never underestimate housewives, OBSD by CuervoJones	Nov 8th, 2007 08:26:56 AM
Moms are great detectives.
Lately its been good by CBWolf	Nov 8th, 2007 08:28:39 AM
The first few episodes this season were pretty bad, but I really think it has started to pick up lately and I am really enjoying it now. That said, I still hate West. The actor and the character are both terrible, Bennet should shoot him, and then the writiers can bring Zack back.
My favorite kind of apology... by Aquatarkusman	Nov 8th, 2007 08:40:01 AM
"I'm sorry... sorry you're such a douchebag!"
I'm sure the wonder twins could be better... by just pillow talk	Nov 8th, 2007 08:40:17 AM
if they had a good introduction. On the run with them has been anything but exciting. If they had to be on the run (having them desperate so that Sylar can lead them), they could have just picked them up right when they met Sylar. It could have been a surprise to Sylar and us to reveal their powers at that time. We could have learned that they were fugitives the same time Sylar did.
Good on him by askholia	Nov 8th, 2007 08:48:52 AM
I have given him shit as much as ECL and now Bacci40. But, I have to say, that the apology and analysis is impressive. I will give Heroes another shot for sure. This is great news.
Series&, Elle is on her way to being a badass, IMO. by Pennsy	Nov 8th, 2007 08:53:29 AM
And Monday will be the next step in that trip. It would have been nice if Bell was the Big Bad, but I think she'll be bad enough before long.
What? Smallville is at least entertaining. set pieces better too by messi	Nov 8th, 2007 08:53:35 AM
Last week it opened with a War on krypton and it fucking destroyed. Looked like a mix of Birthright/animated series and the movies. it was seconds long but somehow had a more profound impact than the way Heroes uses their effects. I don't understand it. smallville has a small budget than heroes yet put more action and much more impressive action and effects pieces than heroes does.
Man Heroes has bored me this season by messi	Nov 8th, 2007 08:54:46 AM
how does a show take such a nosedive?
Prison Break, I still love you. by IAmMrMonkey!	Nov 8th, 2007 08:57:25 AM
Sorry, nothing to do with what this thread is about. I just wanted to get a message out to the one I love.
Im waiting to watch season 2 but by kilik777	Nov 8th, 2007 09:03:28 AM
Season 1's finale was hella disappointing. I hope this new season ends better. I hope the action choreography gets better also. http://tinyurl.com/pv8do
I disagree with many of the "complaints". by Mooly	Nov 8th, 2007 09:12:33 AM
I agree that the Hiro storyline should have been two episodes max. It was obvious from the first episode where this was heading and we didn't need to relvie every single moment. Especially considering the promise of Hiro leaving messages for Ando could have been so much more important and interesting. But for my money, everything else has been good. I'm way more interested in the Herrera's that TV girl. While I think Peter's amnesia story was too long (like Hiro), I totally disagree we should have seen the future immediately...just sooner. Meanwhile, for my money, despite all that the Claire love story is easily the most painful element of this season. I could watch a whole season of Hiro in the past before I enjoy the Claire lovestory with the flying douche.
Guess what? by Sour_Toejam	Nov 8th, 2007 09:14:06 AM
I like jelly beans.
now back to our favorite show.... by Sour_Toejam	Nov 8th, 2007 09:15:59 AM
You know, the production is nice, characters are likeable, but the storylines suck and nothing ever happens. Kring, fuck you...resign. You suck. Batter up!
everyone who thinks.... by stemp11	Nov 8th, 2007 09:26:42 AM
they predicted that kensei was adam in the second ep. is a fucking dumbass....adam's name wasnt even mentioned until two eps. ago, now if you want to say that you predicted kensei being in the future, then thats good, i predicted that myself.
Kensei alive in the future is what they're referring to... by turketron	Nov 8th, 2007 09:32:09 AM
Kensei being alive in the future is what I'm thinking people are referring to, and that they knew he would probably be a bad guy (some of this stemming from the actor being able to do villain roles well). The Kensei = Adam prediction came once his name was mentioned in ep 6, was cemented once Bob talked about him in this episode, and confirmed at the end.
SUPERDOUCHE MUST DIE... SYLAR GOTTA EAT by turketron	Nov 8th, 2007 09:38:22 AM
And hopefully it will be as satisfying as the death of Nikki/Paulo. I have longed for an encounter between West and a TK-Powered Sylar since his first appearance on Heroes. Please don't let us down Kring! SYLAR GOTTA EAT. Hell, I would love to see West attempt to fly, Sylar points at him and smirkily says, "Now where do you think YOU'RE going?", bringing him down to earth, floating him with TK, and then turning him upside down. We get a shot of Sylar pointing at the camera and licking his lips, then we hear West start to scream, and get a shot of his forehead skin beginning to rip.
Me right? Huh. Let's not get carried away now. by Elvis Cole Lives	Nov 8th, 2007 09:43:49 AM
Glad to see that Kring listened, I guess. Show DOES seem to be picking up. Rewatched Monday's episode yesterday. Quite decent. Looking forward to more and better. Glad we can all just "get along" now, too. ;) Vitriol schmitriol.
Hey, let's all shout out to Xiphos if he's around by Elvis Cole Lives	Nov 8th, 2007 09:45:45 AM
Xiphos, I sent you my e-mail yesterday. A little late, but we had a little emergency around here that took up some time Monday night and Tuesday. Hope you made it through surgery all right. Get well soon and I look forward to hearing from you so I can send you some books. Best wishes, dude. Later.
Hey, Vegas Ron, what's up! by Elvis Cole Lives	Nov 8th, 2007 09:48:49 AM
Shout out here to you. Gots to run. Meetings today with some clients. Hope everything's going well for you and the rest. Yay for Mr. Kring! Apparently that strike gave him some readin' and thinkin' time. Good deal. Got to run. You guys have fun.
Bwahaha, Huh-What! by Elvis Cole Lives	Nov 8th, 2007 09:51:08 AM
Just saw that! LOL. Thanks. LOFL. Eat words, bwahahahaha! Mmmm-mmmm good! Thank you, sir! May I have another. Late. Gotta run. Bye.
the internet by tha plow	Nov 8th, 2007 09:52:09 AM
friend or foe? this instant feedback is good for producers, directors, etc. however, sometimes it backfires a la spiderman 3. why if kring new the first 6 episodes were so shitty did he not do something about it in the first place? i guess everyone makes mistakes, but if you have your own prime time show aren't you supposed to be at the top of your game? maybe i'm just rambling.
IAmMrMonkey! by Series7	Nov 8th, 2007 09:52:58 AM
HELL YEAH PRISON BREAK kicks Heroes Ass any day of the week. So pissed I ran out of space and missed the 2nd hour of mondays shows. How this show manages to stay on is beyond me because no one I know watches it. But it by far my favorite show. Because it doesn't try to be overly complicated, its just dumb and doesn't even try to make sense but in the end it does. Chuck is getting close to being my favorite, mainly because its funnier. Heroes needs some comic relief, and intentional humor. Not the unintentional stuff like boner dude peeping in on the double chin cheerleader. They should have just gone all out with that scene and just really have him peeping on her doing something in the bathroom... perferably taking a shit. A HEROIC SHIT!
An 8000 Couric shit... by turketron	Nov 8th, 2007 09:59:32 AM
If superdouche was peeping in on Claire taking an enormous dump like Stan's dad at the end of that South Park episode, it would have instantly redeemed the first 6 episodes of the season. And yes... Prison Break kicks ass this year. Which is why I chose to watch the double episode on Monday and download Heroes. Sure, PB is big and dumb, but shit is constantly happening on there...
GOOD BLOKE, KRING!! by ScarranHalfBreed	Nov 8th, 2007 10:03:57 AM
I think wiping the slate clean is a great idea, and it wouldn't have happened had Kring not been a decent geezer and listened to everyone's complaints. Good on him. But let's not make these hollow promises, eh?
Heros season two is inspireing! by Automaton Overlord	Nov 8th, 2007 10:13:17 AM
Heros season two is inspireing me to upgrade my Netflix account to "four at a time".
Hell, yeah, good for Kring and Heroes still has serious potentia by CrichtonAstronut	Nov 8th, 2007 10:45:33 AM
Great to see Kristen Bell working too. Speaking, I am officially pissed as hell that CW didn't pickup Season 4. I saw the scenes and pitch on the Season3 DVD Box Set. And VM in the FBI looked Fucking awesome. Still love Heroes. And got big love Pushing Daisies and HIMYM but Veronica Mars S4 would've been the best thing on television this season had CW ponnied up the cash for it.
Am I the only one who.... by lecter1914	Nov 8th, 2007 10:56:43 AM
Actually think the Wonder Twins story could be kind of interesting once things hit the fan. Like I said before...Maya can kill people just by crying. Not just one person, but mass amounts of people. Thats pretty effing deadly. The brother I can lose, but her potential is pretty effing cool, especially in the clutches of Sylar. I also really do like the Parkman/Molly stuff. My favorite scenes and the only ones with any real emotional resonance right now. And Monica....I love the character, I think she's pretty cool and doing what most normal people who discover they have a kick ass power would do. I just think the writers are making her more boring than she should be.
We shall see by ebolamonkey	Nov 8th, 2007 11:14:25 AM
They need to take a fucking chainsaw to most of this season. This show has so much promise to change and evolve and keep things interesting. Or it could be that Kring is just a fucking hack who is desperately trying to prop up his collapsing kingdom and will say anything to bring a few viewers back. He better fucking deliver.
stemp11 by ororo_munroe	Nov 8th, 2007 11:33:25 AM
Adams name changed for the show. Originally it was Kane, and we guessed that he was going to be Kensie in the future. So no, I am not a dumbass. That was back in the summer when they released those spoilers about the new characters Kensei and Kane. Pillow - that would have worked so much better than the constant crying of black oil. We just find out when Sylar does. I like Maya and Alejandro. Can't wait to see how Sylar toy's with them.
Apologize? by Marvinatmiddleage	Nov 8th, 2007 11:37:38 AM

Very cool.. by SlickyVonBoner	Nov 8th, 2007 11:42:36 AM
for a man to apologize for his mistakes. You never hear anyone in Hollywood apologize for anything. Anyways the last couple eps of Heroes have been much better and the show is starting to pick up pace again. I'm as giddy as a school-boy on prom night every monday again... well, maybe not THAT giddy.
Apologize? by Marvinatmiddleage	Nov 8th, 2007 11:48:01 AM
I may be a little late weighing in on this but... No one should ever have to apologize for their "art". I don't think season two have been bad for the most part. It's the only thing that gets me through Monday practically. At the end of each episode I do sit there and say, Huh? That's it/ What's going on? I'll have to watch next week. Isn't that the point/ always leave them wanting more. Not that everything has worked for me mind you. The whole Hiro in 17th cen. Japan din't quite come over for me but that broad strokes to make what's happening in the future interesting were there. I like how a guy who is getting the hang of modern day English can talk to a 17th cen. Englishman so easily. But anyway... Perfect? No. Could it be better? Sure. But still a fun show and better than most of the drivel that is on T.V.
Missing the point... by the_ro_show	Nov 8th, 2007 11:58:15 AM
...is what most people are doing. This week's episode was only good because Kring & co took their time setting up all the pieces. It's delayed gratification, which I guess it hard for some people. They want the big reveals NOW even though they lose their impact that way. The whole point the Hiro storyline ran so long is because they were introducing us to the main villain of the show. Instead of going the Sylar route where he's basically just psycho, they took their time fleshing out Kensei. They actually took time to flesh out and develop Kensei. We got to see him as a drunk, then we got to see him learn how to be a hero and taste those fruits, then we saw a man who thought he'd found something great in life have it taken away. What a shame if that had been jammed into three episodes as mere plot points. As far as I'm concerned this entire season has been much better than last. I hope Kring doesn't sell out to appease a couple of haters who watch the show anyway.
I want nerd reparations!!! by Diagnostic	Nov 8th, 2007 12:08:11 PM
Make these people wear tights and capes!
If Noah... by richier123	Nov 8th, 2007 12:10:06 PM
If Noah would go get contacts and throw away his glasses, he would no longer be shot by mohinder, as the painting would then be refering to someone else. Am I the only person who's thought of this?
This 'setting up the pieces' bs by tailhook	Nov 8th, 2007 12:12:57 PM
They did that last year too and the episodes they did it in didn't bore the world. Hence... they apologized. We expect a lot from Heroes.. one of those is that the episodes which 'set stuff up' don't suck balls.
But really... by tailhook	Nov 8th, 2007 12:15:21 PM
The rubber has met the road here. Kring himself admits they fucked up, we know they fucked up, and now we have a clear delineation of exactly who in this talkback are slobbering fanbois with no critical facilties whatsoever and willing to defend any turd this show shits out without reservation.
Heroes "special affects" by ororo_munroe	Nov 8th, 2007 12:17:10 PM
They actually use more special affects than most people realize. Special affects are there, but they are used to quickly create sets that don't exist. to make a parking garage, or to make a seemingly endless amount of cubicles (when they actually only had 1 real one).
"special affects" by Oldnewbie	Nov 8th, 2007 12:20:40 PM
Don't mean to be a jerk, but it is "special effects".
Claire--special affection by batjac	Nov 8th, 2007 12:25:43 PM
growwwwwwwwwwl
richier123 by just pillow talk	Nov 8th, 2007 12:26:04 PM
By the same token, DOH!inder (whoever that was that came up with that..bravo) shouldn't have gotten thrown against the wall and broke his nose. Maybe then he wouldn't want to shoot HRG. Though if Noah got contacts, we would call him 'C'? Not as catchy as HRG....
Heroes problems by batjac	Nov 8th, 2007 12:33:16 PM
The katrina storyline was not only a yawner but a who cares? Of ocurse since Katrina is the ONLY natural disaster to ever hit America, I can see where it gets special treatment. The real problem with heroes is that with the exception of Peter and a full powered SYlar, everone else has an ultraboy power---one power only. nathan can fly---and..... claire cannot die- and...... I think what is coming is what nighmare man implied- the powers are still devleoping in the heroes.
Oldnewbie by ororo_munroe	Nov 8th, 2007 12:49:12 PM
no problem, I was actually quoting someone above. "Katrina is the ONLY natural disaster to ever hit America" Uh... Tristate Tornado, 1925, 695 dead; San Francisco Earthquake, 1906, estimated 700 dead;Great New England Hurricane, 1938, 720 dead;South Carolina–Georgia Hurricane, more than 2,000 dead;Peshtigo Fire, 1871, 1,200–2,400 dead;Louisiana Hurricane, 1893, 2,000-plus dead;Johnstown, Pennsylvania, Flood, 1889, estimated 2,200-plus dead;Great Okeechobee Hurricane in Florida, 1928, estimated over 2,500 dead;Galveston Hurricane, 1900, estimated 8,000 dead. There are so many devastating hurricanes and floods we could be here a while.
What a pussy. by Engelhast	Nov 8th, 2007 12:50:01 PM
Stand up for your show dude! There has not been anything wrong with it so far this season other than it has been a bit dull but is still better than 90% of the other crap on the boob tube. You could fix what is wrong without making a formal apology and over explaining yourself.
ororo_munroe by KanekoFan	Nov 8th, 2007 01:15:42 PM
Ummm... I'm pretty sure that batjac was being sarcastic about Katrina being the only natural disaster to ever hit America.
This is why people here sometimes complain by _Maltheus_	Nov 8th, 2007 01:19:58 PM
I haven't been one of the ones ripping on Heroes this season, but let this put a rest to the question as to why do people post, if they're unhappy with a show. People do listen. Too bad the strike had to go and fuck everything up.
Prison Break.. by Reel American Hero	Nov 8th, 2007 01:34:55 PM
I wanted to watch the show when it first started. Seemed like a nice contained story all wrapped up in a season. Maybe two at the most not unlike a good British series or an anime. But then for whatever reason I was never able to get around to watch the show, then I find out it's still going on. Breaking in, and out of various prisons...it just sounds really dumb. I wish an American tv channel would do a show that already has a set end from the start, tell the story, and then it's over. It'd be a nice change of pace from all these shows that the writers make up as they go along in accordance to the show's popularity or lack thereof.
Anyone see this happening? by jtishere	Nov 8th, 2007 01:50:53 PM
Is Mohinder supposed to be gay? It hit me during the last show when he refused Bob's instruction to administer the virus to Micah's cousin and Bob commended him for having a conscience, And in the most recent show, Mohinder's disowning HRG after discovering his partner isn't pure as the driven show. Of the main characters, Mohinder is one that we have not seen in a romantic relationship. Since it's very much an entertainment cliche these days that the smartest, kindest and most moral people are the homosexuals (e.g., Dumbledore), are the writers setting Mohinder up as the Gay Saint? It's looking that way to me.
DOH!inder did get a kiss from what's her face... by just pillow talk	Nov 8th, 2007 02:28:06 PM
but then of course she killed herself before Sylar could get her....what the hell was her name?
You can have "Setup" Episodes by veritasses	Nov 8th, 2007 02:44:33 PM
that are well made and Setup Episodes that are just plain awful and painful to watch. No one really minds well made setups. We do however, care when we see poorly executed setups. And by poorly executed, I mean "setups" littered with bad dialog, illogical character actions/motivations, paper thin characters and relationships, lame use of super powers, redundant or irrelevant scenes etc. Also, most of eps 1-6 were "filler" not "setup". Having said that it's good to see the vast improvements made in Ep. 7 (but still by no means high quality). I'm actually looking forward to the next episode
I am not done yet. by Engelhast	Nov 8th, 2007 03:01:14 PM
I think that is a total douche move to apologize because the 2nd season has not been what some of the more outspoken and vocal fans want. The story should only serve the story they had in mind and wanted to tell. The story should not serve what the fans want to or expect to see because everyone wants something different and they will never make everyone happy. To open up the plot and writing process to the demands of fans would be opening up a can of worms that would really turn the show into something they would need to apologize for.
Kill off Claire's boyfriend! In other words... by rockgolf	Nov 8th, 2007 03:02:11 PM
Go, young man West!
Not that there's anything wrong with that but.. by Reel American Hero	Nov 8th, 2007 03:35:34 PM
I thought it was the actor who plays Dumbledor in the HP films that is gay, not the character itself. That'd be like saying Magneto and Gandalf are gay because they were played by Ian Mckellen.
Its like my peepaw used to tell me by kelli_picklers_cooter	Nov 8th, 2007 03:38:48 PM
Ifn a friend kicks ya in the jollies, and then asks fer forgivin, ya gotta shake hands and walk away friends. If a friend kicks ya in the jollies, then ass rapes ya while yer down, ya dont have to stay friends with him. tim kring take note, ya kicked me in the jollies, but i wanna stay friends. please don't ass rape me.
last couple weeks i stopped watching cause it got so convoluted by wolvenom	Nov 8th, 2007 03:55:35 PM
but now that kring is expressing an interest in fixing the shittiness that is season 2 i may start watching again.
ABOVE ALL KRING NEEDS TO GET SUPERHEROES... by wolvenom	Nov 8th, 2007 04:02:04 PM
He needs to understand what makes a superhero a superhero. NUMBER 1: is that they're all crime fighters! or fighting a common good. NUMBER 2: THEY USUALLY HAVE A SUPERHERO TEAM AND WORK TOGETHER AND WORK BEST AS A TEAM... these heroes rarely work together and are all over the place. Spiderman didn't always go solo, he teamed up with the avengers once in a while. We need an avengers/x-men/justice league type group in heroes not everyone going all over the place doing their own thing. NUMBER 3 WE NEED AN IDENTIFIABLE LEADER OF THE HEROES... wtf is the leader here? Who are we suppose to aspire to? CAPTAIN AMERICA was a leader, Professor X was a leader, Superman was a leader.... NUMBER 3 WE NEED BAD GUYS! IDENTIFIABLE BAD GUYS! not bad guys hiding in the shadows for a whole season. There's no big ass Magneto type bad guy in heroes, or Luthor, or Joker.... besides sylar and he gets pretty boring.... LASTLY WE NEED COOL FUCKING COSTUMES OR MUTATIONS ON THE BAD GUYS... to make them extra cool
GIVE US THE T-REX YOU PROMISED US KRING... by wolvenom	Nov 8th, 2007 04:18:31 PM
T-REX fighting HIRO IS ALL ANYONE EVER WANTED... even if it was crappy sfx i'd still love it. T-REX T-REX!! SOMEONE NEEDS TO START A PETITION TO GET THE T-REX FIGHTING HIRO ON HEROES!
The show aint called Superheroes by Phategod2	Nov 8th, 2007 04:42:26 PM
This show is supposed to take place in the relm of reality and it would be rediculous to believe that any of what you said would take place unless the following things where true A. one the "Heroes" where rich and had the resource to find other Heroes and wished to do the same. B. The "heroes" where also Comicon geeks who could there own outfits. and C. The show was written by Morons.
Hiro Vs T Rex by Engelhast	Nov 8th, 2007 05:09:52 PM
I am pretty sure they explained that painting away. It was more about Hiro obtaining the sword than actually fighting a T Rex. He confronted the T Rex already and it was a statue in the museum he swiped the sword from.
alexanderx by Alexanderx	Nov 8th, 2007 05:31:00 PM
Have any of ya'll kept up with Hanna and Micha's chats? Or the info she has put out? It keeps the fun going in between episodes. Check out the link http://www.samantha48616e61.co m/#
just pillow talk by ororo_munroe	Nov 8th, 2007 06:31:51 PM
Pixie Chick and I think her name was Eden.
Yes, Ororo... by VegasRon	Nov 8th, 2007 07:14:21 PM
..as played by Nora Zehetner. An awesome character who chose death over letting Sylar get her powers. Just another example of the great things that made S1 pretty damn awesome.
thanks kring by BurgerKing	Nov 8th, 2007 07:31:21 PM

Good on ya for the ack, Kring.. by couP	Nov 9th, 2007 12:28:00 AM
I'm prepared to watch on since he's stated that they're rectifying this season's crapfest.
How about apologizing for the strike? by Sick Fixx	Nov 9th, 2007 02:19:54 AM
As time goes on and so does this bickering between writers and executives, the chances are very great that the sets for shows like Lost, 24, Prison Break, Heroes, etc. could be dismantled. The longer this war wages, the lesser the chances of our favorite shows ever coming back. Am I wrong?
thanks ororo...I think you are right by just pillow talk	Nov 9th, 2007 06:38:57 AM
I seem to remember now DOH!inder calling her Edie. She also got pulled over by Parkman, and then used her magic to make him go back into the car and get donuts, if I'm not mistaken.
Her name was Eve by TruPhan	Nov 9th, 2007 09:08:39 AM
Not sure if that's her birth name in the webcomic though
TruPhan...I just checked on imdb... by just pillow talk	Nov 9th, 2007 09:55:32 AM
it lists her name as Eden McCain, so maybe Eve was her birth name.
The Burrito Twins need to be axed... by anchorite	Nov 9th, 2007 11:00:39 AM
it isn't that they were introduced awkwardly. They suck, plain and simple. Axe the Burrito Twins, or axe your ratings.
oh, sorry ororo by stemp11	Nov 9th, 2007 01:22:43 PM
i did not know that his name was changed, and i actually had heard the name kane a lot and was wondering what the fuck people were talking about. i feel better now.
Apologize for border scene by Peirce	Nov 9th, 2007 08:18:31 PM
I've enjoyed this season. It's a fun distraction, nothing more. I don't think it would hold up for a second viewing, but I'm only going to watch it once. The apology should come for the border crossing scene. That was offensive. There was no way the citizen patrol would act that way. They don't engage with guns and start firing in the air. And if they were that aggressive, they wouldn't act stupid and start shaking the car. Get a clue.
I second the motion to get rid of Nikki and Paolo... by tailhook	Nov 10th, 2007 12:23:00 AM
er... I mean the Blunder Twins.
Kring and various cast on G4 again tonight by INWOsuxRED	Nov 10th, 2007 12:23:16 PM
I can't read this talkback anymore, it appears to have caught the white-screen virus. In the fut

Talkbacks

Kring Apologizes To HEROES Fans!!

Kring Apologizes
To HEROES Fans!!