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Two New Reviews For Brian DePalma’s Enormously Controversial REDACTED!

Comeback? by codymr	Nov 7th, 2007 05:00:23 AM
Will this be considered De Palma's comeback? I wonder if audiences will be willing to "enjoy" this?!
Not sure I trust that first reviewer.. by Ironmuskrat	Nov 7th, 2007 05:40:43 AM
I try not to use the word "plant" when it comes to movie reviews here, but good lord, that first guy even includes a plug for a De Palma webcast and Q&A session. Is Jamey Brian's press agent or something. As for the movie itself, I think minds are pretty much set at this point on whether or not you agree with the war. After five years over in Iraq and countless hours of news coverage on TV and in the press I doubt this movie will sway many opinions at this point.
Enjoyable? by teegee420	Nov 7th, 2007 05:46:12 AM
I wouldn't say "Schindler's List" was enjoyable, but it was a great film nonetheless.
Politics aside, this movie was crap by Brendan3	Nov 7th, 2007 05:52:38 AM
Most of the reviews seem to be politically charged. I believe the people who are raving about this film are simply eager to support a film that tries to get out a message. But message aside, how is the film? I am against the war in Iraq and the current administration, but I'm going to review the film solely on its merits... or lack there of. Okay, I get what DePalma is going for, simulating various types of media to to tell his story in a modern pieced together documentary style. I get it... it's a clever gimmick and maybe some day someone will take that idea and make a good film. This isn't it. First, it is clear that DePalma knows nothing of how the Army operates in Iraq or how soldiers interact with each other, nor does he have any interest in finding out. Colonels arguing with privates, checkpoints set up with machine-guns facing each other, no idea of protocol, no idea of basic tactics, fat and otherwise out of shape infantrymen, and the basest of stereotypes. But his lack of understanding what soldiers actually do is the least of his problems. It seems that in trying to simulate raw hand-held amateur footage, he chose to get as many shots as possible in the fewest amount of takes. At least I hope that's what he did, otherwise I can't imagine why this film has some of the worst acting and worst dialog I've seen and heard in years. Actors imitating reality doesn't mean bad acting and silly stilted improved dialog. At one point one of the actors mistakenly refers to Iraq as Afghanistan. The interrogation scenes were embarrassingly bad and could have been written (and acted) by junior high school students. The whole film seems like a poorly made improv. Continuity, effects, background... all garbage. The ADs and prop-masters should have been fired. Background extras have no idea what they're doing which serves only to remind the viewer that this is poorly simulated reality. Scene to scene the soldiers' weapons and equipment keep changing. The fat soldier (named "Rush"... wonder why?) is carrying a squad automatic weapon and then shown from a different angle, he's carrying a grenade launcher. The nurse performing CPR on the pregnant Iraqi is barely going through the motions for the camera. The bomb in the chair that explodes, killing the sergeant, is obviously an FX air cannon placed in front of (nowhere near) the chair. This was such a lazy piece of film making. Saying the film is based on actual events and ending the film with a montage of images of dead Iraqi civilians is not an excuse for poor film making. The gimmick of simulated reality filming and the important message it's trying to get across may guilt some people into overlooking the bad acting, dialog and film making, but not me. As a final indignity, DePalma closes the film with a montage of pictures of dead Iraqis. Before the montage begins, the screen goes black and then the title "Collateral Damage" comes up with the claim "Actual photographs from the Iraq War" printed beneath it, and then the graphic slideshow begins. One problem though... among the real pictures of dead bodies, DePalma inserts some fake ones, including the pregnant woman killed earlier in the film. I have a screening DVD copy. I froze the frame and went back and compared it to the earlier scene in the film. Among DePalma's "Actual photographs from the Iraq War" is a picture of an actress pretending to be dead. And of course, the closing shot in this montage, the picture that is supposed to pull on the audience's heartstrings the most and make them forget the bad movie they just watched, is a fake picture of a bound and murdered rape victim. Look beyond the message... this film is a mess.
please don't compare it to Rendition..as much as I love Withersp by couP	Nov 7th, 2007 05:55:10 AM
These two reviews have got me even more hyped for it!
There is no "WE" in the actions of a few criminals by Razorback	Nov 7th, 2007 06:09:53 AM
When people say things like "what is wrong with the world" when faced with a crime, they are throwing a blanket on the actions of a percentage of people on the planet so small it doesn't even register as a whole percentage number. The same goes for this bullshit. A tiny percentage of soldiers in every war are criminals.
Hollywood is so predictable by RickP66	Nov 7th, 2007 06:16:13 AM
Let's see, I've read a ton of accounts of brave, selfless, incredibly heart-wrenching actions by our soldiers and Marines in Iraq, any one of which would make an incredible movie. Stories about men and women who have put their lives on the line for this country, who have risked or given their lives to protect people in Iraq and yet when the time comes to make an Iraq war movie WHILE THE WAR IS STILL GOING ON, which soldiers does that moron DePalma pick to depict? Oh yeah, let's pick the incredibly small handful of soldiers who went off the deep end and turned criminal...they MUST tell the story better than the 99% that acted with bravery and nobiility. It's really a shame that we don't enforce the laws against treason.
Oh really, Bastman? by suckamc	Nov 7th, 2007 06:36:40 AM
Everyone should watch this before joining the Army? Interesting to hear from someone who never said that they served themselves. After all is said and done, this is still fiction. Its like me saying every kid should watch Friday the 13th before they head off to camp.
tories about men and women who have put their lives on the line by CuervoJones	Nov 7th, 2007 06:47:25 AM
What the hell does that mean? I mean, "for this country"? Really?
I KNEW SOMEONE WAS GOING TO CRY TREASON by BringingSexyBack	Nov 7th, 2007 07:12:13 AM
Just not so soon. Good work, Rick. The first "review" was obviously a flowery plant, but the second got me convinced to see this. Those crying and moaning against criticism about the invasion should be tried for treason. Anyone who advocates sending soldiers into an ill-advised bloodbath ought to be sent to Gitmo, waterboarded, stripped naked, raped for days on end and tortured in Takashi Miike ways. Just kidding. You're just stupid.
At the very least,, this movie by Johnny Law	Nov 7th, 2007 07:53:21 AM
will show how starkly polarized this country still is. Half the country will love it, half will hate it. Half will cry "patriot!" the other half will cry "treason!" What odd times...
Razorback - about that small percentage... by chains	Nov 7th, 2007 08:11:46 AM
What percentage of the German soldiers in WWII were criminals? My guess is that it was more than a whole percentage number. To think that America is somehow morally superior is very naive. Right here at home we have plenty of murderers, rapists and other vile criminals of our own... many of them even wear suits and roam the streets in daylight. A situation like Iraq gives these sick people an opportunity to act out... often with impunity. What you need to ask yourself is: "What percentage of criminal acts like the one described in this film go UNREPORTED and UNPUNISHED?" I assure you, the reported war crimes that are reported represent less than a whole percentage point of the total. That goes for any country, in any war. That's why it has to stop.
Bored, drunk, and horny? by The_Blood_is_Love	Nov 7th, 2007 08:12:36 AM
Only a fucking clown would think that this is a dramatic exscuse. The real soldiers who are being depicted were undergoing psychiatric evaluations before the rape and were seriously damaged mentally. If this is this, then I've lost all respect for Depalma.
I still say.... by mastidon	Nov 7th, 2007 08:28:50 AM
and will continue to say, REDACTED = best picture of the year and most disturbing film since SCHINDLER'S LIST. The decapitation scene still haunts me.
Depalma is a hack by batjac	Nov 7th, 2007 08:30:31 AM
A bad film by an irrelevant director who has been doing this kind of crap for decades with the same complete and total lack of results. He's a bad film maker. As a person, he's transparent. Sorry some folks are offended by him being called a traitor--but he is--self proclaimed. He hates and despises America. He has said this himself. Not Fox News--Not Dick Cheney---DePalma himself has said it. He WANTS our troops to die--in this war and in Vietnam---he said it then and he says it now. Oh well, the film won't make any money. Got to tell you something when a film can't get a distributor. So maybe in the end--it's just a bad film. Maybe he can direct Pluto Nash II next.
Not Surprised by TCSailor	Nov 7th, 2007 08:45:15 AM
Hollywood hasn't had anyone in two generations actually serve in combat. We used to have a large amount of actors, directors, producers and writers who had served and understood the tremendous sacrifice involved in trading the best years of your life in service to your country regardless of political affiliation. This is no longer the case. I can't imagine any of the current crop of Hollywood scum being as responsible as that and actually taking up arms and serving in some capacity to defend the freedoms they bask in and rely on for a paycheck. DePalma has stated how much he detests the US Military and this movie comes as no surprise to me. That's his right....and it has been defended by those he despises. He sleeps safe in his bed at night because there are hard men willing to do violence on his behalf (my apologies to George Orwell). I won't see the movie and I suspect only people who share his vision of the USA and our military will. We shall see.
Half Will Love It . . . by kevinwillis.net	Nov 7th, 2007 09:19:31 AM
A lot more than half will never see it, because it sounds terrible. I wouldn't see it if the movie was more logically anti-Islamofascist, rather than anti-American-Military, because it just sounds painful and pointless to sit through. Either you believe such horrors are du jour for your enemy of choice (Islamofascist/American Soldier/American Idol Contestant/Michael Bay)or you think it's largely one or two bad apples in a sea of hundreds of thousands . . . or you think the "real life incident" is almost entirely bullshit just because of the inconsistencies and uncorroborated nature of the testimony, and our military's tendency (and the media's) to assume the American soldier is guilty until proved more guilty. Seriously, weren't the soldier's involved in the real life incident this film is based on cleared? Or is that another American-soldier-murder-massac re that was, in fact, completely fictional that I'm thinking of? Coming soon from Brian DePalma: Jesse MacBeth, American Hero.
Chains... by DoctorWho?	Nov 7th, 2007 09:28:35 AM
If you think free societies are more preferable than dictatorships...then yes,there is a moral superiority. Not the PEOPLE themselves, but the VALUES that make up most of the west. No human is inherently more "superior" than another...but damn....theres a reason no ones itching to go live/vacation in Pakistan or Iran.Radical ideologies based on instability and violence does not make for happy people. Yeah, America's far from perfect. Get over it.
KEVINWILLIS.NET by BringingSexyBack	Nov 7th, 2007 09:33:54 AM
The lead soldier - Steven Green - is awaiting his trial and faces the death penalty. All the other participants have confessed and have been tried and sentenced, with one getting 110 years. Here's a summary from a news report: "But Sgt. Paul E. Cortez testified that Spielman stood guard. Cortez said Spielman was within a few feet of the others as they held down the screaming girl and did nothing to stop them. Barker, Cortez and another soldier, Pfc. Bryan L. Howard, pleaded guilty for their roles. Steven D. Green, who was discharged from the Army before being charged, faces a possible death sentence when he is tried in federal court in Kentucky. He has pleaded not guilty to charges that include murder and sexual assault. Barker and Cortez gave investigators conflicting statements about whether Spielman knew of the plan to rape the girl and whether he was present when they discussed it over whiskey and gin, according to testimony. During their courts-martial, Barker and Cortez testified they took turns raping the girl while Green shot and killed her mother, father and younger sister. Green shot the girl in the head after raping her, they said. The girl's body was set on fire with kerosene to destroy the evidence, according to previous testimony." I think DePalma semi-fictionalizing this account is actually a favor. The truth is far uglier.
RickP . . . by kevinwillis.net	Nov 7th, 2007 09:40:32 AM
Loved that all BSB could see is the call of treason (to paraphrase, I don't think these kind of stuff is treason, I think it's just incredibly stupid and purposely obtuse). But you're exactly right . . . no movies about soldiers struggling to get powerplants online and keep them online against insurgents, no movies about contractors risking life and limb for a nice paycheck while trying to build up the infrastructure. I think soldiers and Iraqis cheering together around a flushing toilet could make a pretty groovy scene. But no . . . spit on them babykillers, DePalma. At the same time, can't leave out the social system within which DePalma lives. He will be feted, treated with lots of free blow (if that's his choice)and praised by the elites while getting a few more bjs than normal. He exists in a microcosm where he will be rewarded tremendous for his political purity. It's a win/win for him. Though I have no doubt he's sincere is his hatred of the American military, neocons, the evil Bushitler, etc. But, the point being: there are some great movies of American heroism, interesting stories about culture clashes that are not judgemental against Americans or Iraqis--there are blogs from folks on the ground that are full of interesting stories. Soldiers and Iraqis, some who are pro-American and some who are anti-occupation and some who are just sort of ambivalent: this is better now, but this is worse. You don't even have to look to stories of American heroism (of which there are plenty) to make an interesting and thought-provoking story that doesn't depict Americans as child-murdering child-rapists (and Iraqi insurgents as kite-flying peace-lovers driven to blowing up weddings by evil Americans).
IF YOU WANT TO SEE SOME STORIES OF HEROIC SOLDIERS by BringingSexyBack	Nov 7th, 2007 09:49:45 AM
in Iraq I recommend you watch The Ground Truth. Straight from the mouths of the soldiers themselves.
KEVINWILLIS: HOW EXACTLY IS DEPALMA DEPICTING ALL SOLDIERS by BringingSexyBack	Nov 7th, 2007 09:53:26 AM
as murderers and rapists and all insurgents as kite-flying peace lovers? Since you've seen this movie, I'd like to know how he played that out.
Hollywood by redshirt	Nov 7th, 2007 10:03:32 AM
OK, I get it all you haters of Bush and the war, I get it. But still, arent you sick of hollywood only focusing on the worst of America while completely ignoring the horrors of radical islam? It takes absolutely no courage to rip on Bush or the war, you pay no price for it. Rip on islam, however, and some imam will slap a fatwa on your ass and you might wind up with your throat slit. That takes real bravery.
REDSHIRT: HAVE YOU SEEN THE KINGDOM? by BringingSexyBack	Nov 7th, 2007 10:13:39 AM
That movie's for you. It showed how the root of radical Islam is really in Saudi Arabia, and there's even a massive fucking gunfight (best I've seen in recent memory) that ended with a dead radical leader. Check it out.
THIS YEAR'S LITTxx xxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxx by Pound Sand	Nov 7th, 2007 10:15:32 AM

bringingsexyback by redshirt	Nov 7th, 2007 10:18:26 AM
didn't see it! thanks for the rec. Saudi Arabia is a problem, no doubt...
America is #1! by shartron	Nov 7th, 2007 10:28:33 AM
This is just a movie after all. It's not a documentary. I believe DePalma used a cast of mostly amateurs for this film so the acting is probably a little raw. Also, it was filmed in Jordan, so at least he's going for the mid-east look of things. Anyway, I love the U.S.! I want to fight for my $100 barrel of oil, WMD's and the poor Iraqis. Meanwhile, back home, we have meth labs sprouting up faster than Walgreens and illegals crossing our southern border hourly. You rock Bush!
DePalma Seems to Have a Fixation... by MarkWhittington	Nov 7th, 2007 10:31:56 AM
...on American soldiers raping people. My theory is that it goes beyond bull shit, left wing politics into something a little--well--darker and perverted.
Mark Whittington . . . by kevinwillis.net	Nov 7th, 2007 10:43:25 AM
Did you ever see Dressed to Kill? Or Body Double? DePalma likes the whole deathsex thing. And is just me for does Craig Wasson (Jake Scully in Body Double) look a little like Bill Maher?
Craig Wasson by batjac	Nov 7th, 2007 10:47:02 AM
For the longest time I thought Bill Maher WAS Craig Wasson. Seriously--seperated at birth.
20/20 by carpetofstars	Nov 7th, 2007 10:58:28 AM
I was watching that catch a predator show on 20/20 and I was astounded by the number of US servicemen that were caught in the sting. You need to remember that the men in uniform and the men in power are no different than the rest of us. The uniform is not the thing which demands my respect but rather how the man who wears it behaves. I'm sure that there are many stories of american heroism to be told out of this war, but applauding around a flushing toilet that you buggers blew up in the first place ain't one of them.
Where I First Saw Bill Maher by kevinwillis.net	Nov 7th, 2007 10:58:31 AM
I said: "Hey, it's the guy from Ghost Story." Which was the true story about how Fred Astaire, John Houseman and Douglas Fairbanks Jr. murdered Alice Krige for her role as the Borg Queen in Star Trek: First Contact, and then Craig Wasson started dating her. Before he decided to star in a porn movie with Melanie Griffith. Frankie Goes to Hollywood gave us good advice that year: Relax, he said. Don't do it, he said. When you want to come, he said.
CarpetofStarts by kevinwillis.net	Nov 7th, 2007 11:02:38 AM
Point being, they are there. And there are actually interesting stories there that aren't some form of anti-military torture-porn. I'm down with the idea of Charlie Wilson's War, for example. This? Rendition? Lions for Lambs? They all sound tedious and/or boring. Of course, I thought the same thing about The DaVinci Code. And I still haven't seen it. And applauding a flushing toilet sounds like a more entertaining story than Redacted.
I Thought United 93 was "Meh." by kevinwillis.net	Nov 7th, 2007 11:09:14 AM
I'm sorry, Batman, I don't pause long to speculate about "Meh." in the movie. And while some people may suggest DePalma should be bound by some notion of journalistic ethics, I'm certainly not. He's not a journalist. What I'm saying is that this movie sounds about a thousand times more tedious than, say, Blowout with Nancy Griffith and John Travolta, which was kind of stupid but kind of fun, too. Especially with John Lithgow as the bad guy. Sweet! Brian DePalma can make any movie he wants, as far as I'm concerned, and given the circles he travels in this movie make a lot of sense. And I'm sure it's a story he thinks needs to be told. However, even if I agreed with the implied politics of the movie, I still wouldn't want to see this movie. I'd want the circumstances changed in real life (and I do, actually) but would I want to see the movie. Even if Hollywood was making movies about Islamofascist torture-porn, I still wouldn't want to see them. I haven't seen anything by Eli Roth, ever (but I fully support his right to produce and market torture-porn). But United 93 didn't do anything for me, really. I think Paul Greengrass has done a better job with the Bourne franchise, quite frankly.
I FEEL SORRY FOR PEOPLE WHO FEEL THE STORY OF A RAPED CHILD by BringingSexyBack	Nov 7th, 2007 11:48:35 AM
and the murder of her and her family is not worth telling. Truly you people need to get over your hatred of DePalma and grow a fucking conscience.
BSB is shocked... by DoctorWho?	Nov 7th, 2007 12:17:46 PM
...shocked that such a heinous crime by Americans isn't trumpeted on all screens across the nation...yet a 16 yr old girl being hanged in a public square in Iran for adultry is part of Mahmoud's "progressive" social change. Get a clue.
I am curious... by death_by_powerpoint	Nov 7th, 2007 12:38:15 PM
I am curious how many of those who speak with such authority about 'the situation in Iraq', or 'the troops in Iraq', have actually been to Iraq and seen what it's like. How many have spoken to the Soldiers, Sailors, Marines and Airmen (not to mention the Iraqis who have stepped up to answer their nation's need at a risk level no one in America will ever face) fighting, building, teaching and dying there. I have given over two years of my life to this country; spent over two years away from my wife and children. The Bronze Star on my chest is a cold comfort...the staggeringly low casualty figures over the past few months - civilian and military - means more. The Soldier answers the nation's call as directed by the President and the elected Congress. Their personal opinion of the war is irrelevant. The sacrifice of self in the service of something larger is - sadly - a value that is lacking in much of our society. I am proud to serve those who protest my service. My blood and the blood of my brothers and sisters for over two centuries has earned them that right, to express their opinion in safety within the greatest country in the world. DePalma, I salute your opinion and - with apologies to Voltaire - would give my life to protect your right to speak it. Of note - the animals that betrayed their cause and their duty, deliberately and needlessly causing harm to those we are sworn to protect, deserve what they get.
Bravo powerpoint! by shartron	Nov 7th, 2007 01:13:52 PM
While I applaud you for serving in our nation's armed forces, I feel it hard to approve of a "war on terror". I have not been to Iraq, nor shall I ever go there. Think of the BILLIONS of dollars we are spending to fund this "war". Where in the hell does the money go? Why don't we re-direct that cashflow to our f**king country first? Are our citizens not as important as the Iraqis? Let's protect our commodities like oil and butter up the surrounding countries while we are in their territory. Our wonderful president may want to worry more about Pakistan nuking the mid-east than worry about the "war on terror". Anyone who can't pronounce the word NUCLEAR should not be in the White House. Bumbling fool.
Here's an answer, deathbypowerpoint by xevoid	Nov 7th, 2007 01:14:49 PM
yeah, I work with computers all day and no, have never been to Iraq or will ever go. That doesn't mean that as a liberal I shouldn't have an opinion on this war. Anecdotal evidence, no matter heartwarming, is still anecdotal evidence. I completely respect your dedication, but at the end of the day Iraq never threatened us, never had WMD's, and was a poor choice of a country to invade. Your sacrifice and the sacrifice of other soldiers do not change those simple facts. The problem I have with movies like this is that it gives a free pass to the people who commit the real atrocities day after day in Iraq, which is Al Qaeda in Iraq and insurgents on both sides of the Sunni-Shia divide. The story of American soldiers raping a 15 year old girl pales in comparison to the carnage that goes on day after day there, where police recruits are blown up by the dozens, civilians are shot and killed an people are decapitated on a regular basis. The hatred, both religious and secular, emanating from Iraqis, is really on a completely different scale than the fucked up actions of a few wayward soldiers. To me this is the real story. We talk all the time about american torture, but when Muslims slaughter each other in numbers so large and with methods so cruel as to leave our pitiful attempts at torture in the dust (waterboarding? "simulated drowning"? PFFT! Comeon...do we use drills? Acid? Those implements are usued regularly in Iraq by Muslims) we ignore it in large part because it is so commonplace. Directors like de palma believe that as Americans we are the shining beacon on th hill so when stuff like this occurs it is a tragic example of the light of that American beacon going out. The problem is that America has always been ruthless when dealing with enemeis, and you have to be, because war is war. What occurred with those soldiers should not be made into a movie. It should be relegated to the dumpster of American war history, and those sad fucks should get what they deserve. If you want to make a movie about atrocities, why not look at where they really occur in large numbers. There are stories there int he thousands about the families torn apart by religious hate and violence. Innocent people being killed in horrible ways on a daily basis by kidnappers, religious extremists, and al Qaeda fanatics whou would blow up infrastructure to harm thousadns of people rather than let the American mission succeed. De Palma chose to should the debased actions of 5 soldiers instead. Fuck him.
Death by Powerpoint... by DoctorWho?	Nov 7th, 2007 01:15:30 PM
Thank you for your service! It's the good guys like yourself that don't get enough pub. Only the scumbags/knuckleheads. According to guys like BSB, your a poor uneducated/brainwashed/redneck /conformist/bigoted/sadist who wants to see people suffer and kill with impunity (and lets not forget ZIONIST).Go figure.
Has anyone protested your service? by mbeemer	Nov 7th, 2007 01:19:18 PM
I think people have protested how your service has been used by those in charge.
oh and one more thing by xevoid	Nov 7th, 2007 01:34:06 PM
I hear this allt he time by soldiers who are very proud to be over there serving their country. The rest of us are paying for it with our tax dollars. We are spending billions upon billions of dollars for our soldiers to be dedicated to their jobs in a place that never attacked us or was never a threat. So we should have some say in what goes on over there, even if we aren't fighting the fight. We are paying for it, and so are our children. The vast majority of Americans want dedicated soldiers like deathbypowerpoint to come home, and to come home quickly. De Palma's movie is a travesty because it completely ignores the real issues of the war, which is not American atrocities but the sectarian and tribal hate of the Iraqis for each other, and the hatred by Al Qaeda of anything, even other Muslims, who support the west.
Heroes in Iraq by Hasselhoffflying	Nov 7th, 2007 03:12:32 PM
LOL give me a fucking break...there are no "heroes" in Iraq and never will be. I don't care if American blood is spilled on Iraq soil. It is an illegal war based off deception and lies by Americans. Hell it is not even a war, it's an occupation of a country that was over 50% women and children when it began. Heroes for invadong such a poor country who posed absolutely zero threat to America? BS Heroes who served a treasonous president who lied to the american people and deceived them. Anyone who follows our current commander and chief is my enemy so fuck you about heroes!
Mbeemer by kevinwillis.net	Nov 7th, 2007 03:12:49 PM
Folks have said guys like him are uneducated, have no choice (because, of course, the only reason a person would serve their country is because they have no choice) . . . and the Hollywood depiction of soldiers is generally unsympathetic, and not always just to the mission, but frequently to the soldiers as depicted. There are folks on the left that given soldiers grief just for being soldiers. Some on the left have referred to our all volunteer force as "mercenaries". So, I think you can see where he's coming from.
Death By Powerpoint by kevinwillis.net	Nov 7th, 2007 03:21:27 PM
I salute you, sir. I'm often too chickenshit to even go offer my thanks to military personel I see in person, because I don't feel worthy. I just sit back and enjoy the freedom you are fighting for. I get to come home to my wife every night, because guys like you are doing the hard work of fighting terrorists and bringing freedom to folks where American interest may or may not be there, but certainly the interests of freedom and liberty are. I'm not an expert, and I would have been spending the money on building up our military for future conflicts with radical Islam rather than going to war in Iraq if I had been president . . . but you guys are doing yeoman's work, and I know you know this, but guys like Hasselhoffflying are either mentally disturbed or too immature to know better, as only a total jackass would actively want a serviceman in the US military as their enemy. Irrespective of their opinion of current US policy. And, Mbeemer, Hasselhofflying sounds like some protesting the soldiers in addition to the policy.
Powerpoint by madoo14	Nov 7th, 2007 03:23:33 PM
I hate to be that cynical guy but come on this is an AICN talkback and how do we REALLY know who this guy is and whether he's really in the army. If you are, more power to you and I hope you never have to go back. For some reason I doubt it though. Btw my favorite line of the TB so far goes to kevinwilliams.net "no movies about contractors risking life and limb for a nice paycheck" . . . now THAT is a story I want to see lol.
Kevin Willis by MarkWhittington	Nov 7th, 2007 03:24:11 PM
"Did you ever see Dressed to Kill? Or Body Double?" I've seen Dressed to Kill, so I get your point. Shame that DePalma is not honest about it and is cloaking what seems to be a porn movie in left wing, anti military politics.
Mark Whittington, Madoo14 by kevinwillis.net	Nov 7th, 2007 03:33:34 PM
Torture porn. Brian DePalma and Eli Roth should team up and do something. And I'm sure DePalma is a big lefty, so . . . Madoo14: how do I know you're really Madoo14? Even if the guy isn't genuine, there are certainly pro-military folks in the military and, frankly, the sentiment I expressed is genuine. Love those guys! Semper fi and all that. And the contractors risking life and limb for a fat paycheck . . . it's a movie that's begging to be made. That, and the movie about the earnest Iraqi blogger who develops super-powers and ends the war with his laser vision.
Rendition Box Office by kevinwillis.net	Nov 7th, 2007 03:35:39 PM
Worldwide gross has been $13 mil so far . . . might break even after DVD release. Sales to cable. This is a business, after all. But I'll be surprised if Redacted does as well. I predict less than $10 million worldwide gross for Redacted in its first three weeks.
KevWillis by madoo14	Nov 7th, 2007 03:39:26 PM
Well because that's what is right above my post. Now once I claim to be the prince of Micronesia, then you can (and hopefully would) question my credibility. I can't believe you would just brush over someone imitating a soldier like that though. I thought it was blasphemy to disrespect anything within six degrees of separation of the troops let alone pretending to be one to advance your cause. I'm still a little hesitant about your truck driver in Iraq movie, but laser vision . . . that's something I could get behind.
Madoo14: Laser Vision Rules by kevinwillis.net	Nov 7th, 2007 03:52:01 PM
"Brush right over" . . . what am I going to do? Demand credentials? A patriot and soldier frequenting AICN Talkbacks is a lot more plausible than you being the kind of Micronesia (heck, it's more plausible than Micronesia, period). I'm just going to assume he's real, and not a Pentagon plant, and operate on that assumption. Now, how about an Iraqi contractor that has to fight a robot from the future that has come to kill him because he is the father of the woman who will one day bear the twin martial arts experts that will lead the revolt against Cyber-Roboto-Net in the year 2525. Shit, this movie just writes itself. Pish-posh this writer's strike.
How bad? by chewyou812	Nov 7th, 2007 04:11:07 PM
The question isn't if this will be bad, but rather; How bad will it be? Maybe this will finally be the film that puts a fork in Depalma's career.
Rape:The Movie by alienindisguise	Nov 7th, 2007 04:53:08 PM
sounds like an absolutely pointless flick. We all get the news in 1 form or another. No need in filming it.
Great reviews guys by CherryValance	Nov 7th, 2007 05:13:14 PM
I intend to see this movie as soon as I can. And Rendition wasn't even bad. Sometimes, I think people only want to watch Denzel Washington make boo-boo faces.
DOCTORWHO by BringingSexyBack	Nov 7th, 2007 05:27:42 PM
I don't recall giving you permission to speak on my behalf. Stop putting words in other people's mouths and speak for your own self. Or you can address me directly. I don't bite. You may garner a modicum of respect for doing so, instead of coming off more trollish than Gabriel Gray.
Box Office for Valley of Elah by kevinwillis.net	Nov 7th, 2007 05:32:08 PM
$7.5 million worldwide in two months of release. I don't think that's a movie that'll ever make it's budget back. Compare that to an anti-war flick like Born on the Fourth of July, which grossed $161 million worldwide. Maybe because it was, I dunno, more interesting? And, as I recall, many of the reviews were non-plussed at the time. And that was in 1989, ticket prices have doubled since then. Or Coming Home, which grossed $32.6 million in 1978--which would be about $100 million in today's box office. Heck, my dad took me to see Coming Home (I was 9 or 10) because he wanted to see it. I was bored. And my Dad has never been a lefty, he was just interested in seeing the movie. Where is that with any of these movies? I'm thinking Grace is Gone stands a much better chance of performing at the box office (though not like Coming Home or Born on the Fourth of July, etc) . . . Charlie Wilson's War just looks good in all the ways movies like Lions for Lambs look bad.
Micronesia is part of the Coalition of the Willing by BringingSexyBack	Nov 7th, 2007 06:56:49 PM
Don't make fun of an ally.
by Holy Hell	Nov 7th, 2007 07:26:54 PM
These have GOT to be accepted truths by now: 1) The war in Iraq was justified by bullshit intelligence. Both the war-mongering neo-con party-starters and the pathetically impotent Democrat standers-by are responsible for it. And sure, Saddam didn't help things. 2) The war in Iraq has been almost completely and disasterously mis-handled. This is coming from a guy with direct family ties to the war. Ask and I'll tell you what they are. 3)There are stories of American soldiers aiding reconstruction efforts: building schools, developing crop-irrigation technologies, encouraging small business growth. 4)Those stories of American heroism are stars in the sky. They are awesome, but the night sky's still black. 5)If an artist attempts to describe the character of America's recent activities in the middle east it would be both innaccurate and indecent to tell stories highlighting American heroism without pointing a big finger at the systems and personalities that have inarguably sewn chaos and pain on a mass scale. The facts are very, very bad. 6) Our country, our wonderful home with a legacy of intelligence, courage, moral decency, charity, and generosity, has been truly unrecognizable as of late, as witnessed by the soldiers who've had their tours extended, the American families who are mourning lost loved ones, the million Iraqi refugees looking for food and family, the Turks in a panic over a shifting balance of power on their Kurdish border, the moderate Iranians losing witnessing their country collapse into fundamentalism as a response to American testosterone, etc, etc. The character of our country is in mortal danger. If struggling with ugly truth is treasonous, prosecute me first, an Independent, tax-paying American with a point-of-view and an increasingly dim patience.
Hey Hasselhoffflying... by Banshee7	Nov 7th, 2007 07:56:57 PM
stick another cock in your mouth so you'll shut the fuck up.
Our soldiers fight and die... by manzoniman	Nov 7th, 2007 08:16:04 PM
...so misguided "film-makers" can churn out anti-millitary propaganda like this. And America haters babble on, oblivious to the very reason they are allowed to be stupid - the men and women who fight and die for our freedom. Criticize the war, that's fine. Hold up a few bad apples as an example of what ALL of our soldiers truly are? That's horseshit, and DePalma knows it. He simply hates our military.
Manzo by Holy Hell	Nov 7th, 2007 08:33:56 PM
I certainly DO know why you are allowed to be stupid. A group of terribly intelligent British ex-pats, educated in the ways of statecraft and influenced by the tenets of ancient Greek civilization and the early democracy of the Iroquois nation, stood up to tyranny and created the most hopeful, just, and decent form of government in human history- representative democracy. Throughout our nation's somewhat young history, brave men and women have opted to serve in the military to fight wars on behalf of our elected power structure. Other brave men and women have sought to address corruption and injustice within the state itself. Reporters, investigators, artists, intellectuals, clergy, philosophers, fathers, mothers, teachers, statesmen, etc. are some of the citizenry that have helped strengthen our country's character. My grandfathers, brother, and brother in law committed themselves to the service of the country as defined by those founding ideals. They fight so Americans are free to use the fullness of their intellect and talents to challenge the wicked, domestic or abroad. They fight for dePalma to make his films, and for us to develop our minds enough to converse with them rationally. Do not judge a thing before you've conversed with it, and do not judge a human based on an opinion informed by irrational suspicion and proud ignorance. See the film, then open your mouth. With intelligence, please, if you honor what our soldiers fight for.
The math by dartura	Nov 7th, 2007 09:03:45 PM
Of the 160,000 soldiers currently in theater, there have been – and I’m guessing-- 20 that have been found to be involved in some type of reprehensible behavior. I'm counting the 5 or so in Abu Garib, the 5 in the basis for Redacted, and allowing for a doubling of this number for things we may not know about. Let's really go crazy and say that there are ten times the amount of people involved in horrendous behavior. That's 100 people out of 160,000, or 0.000625 percent. That's why a large portion of us feel that it's amazing that of all of the movies coming out about the war, almost all of them paint our soldiers as murderous, raping, indescriminate killers. When clearly that's not factual or even remotely accurate. Think about all of the movies centered around the war, how many paint our troops in a positive light? A portion of one movie? The bulk of one movie? Isn't that sad that you can't immediately think of one? How many are just the opposite? I can think of 3 right off the bat. Which is also sad.
holy hell by redshirt	Nov 7th, 2007 09:04:06 PM
I will grant you that there have been grevious mistakes in the management of the Iraq war, however this seems to be the historical norm. In fact, the mistakes made by the leaders in this war pale in comparison to some of the mistakes of all of our other wars. Hell, the battle of the bulge cost us 19,000 soldiers lives. That, my friend, is what real intelligence failure looks like.
Red and Dart by Holy Hell	Nov 7th, 2007 09:16:41 PM
I live right here, right now. Iraq is a horrible waste of a war, and a horrible waste of lives. Our government was misguided at best, misleading at worst, and the mistakes that we are all baring witness to NOW, are unacceptable. Grant ME nothing. I don't want it. This isn't about me, you, or DePalma. This is about competence and, possibly, wickedness. Dartura- any piece of art that haphazardly colors an entire group of people as murderous or angelic is not terribly good art. If that's what DePalma is doing, then he sucks. I'm NOT convinced that that's what he's doing. Are you? And I cannot think on a single movie that paints all soldiers in a bad light. Give me one. Lions for Lambs? Nope. Rendition? Not by a long shot. Elah? Not really. There are several that criticize our government, but I can't think of one that attacks the troops (though I haven't seen Redacted yet)
The job of an artist is to "provoke, challenge and enrage?" by CreasyBear	Nov 7th, 2007 09:26:15 PM
I disagree. Moviemakers' job is to entertain, not piss off the people who paid their hard-earned money to spend two hours of their lives watching their "art". Personally, career work and home maintenance provide enough headaches and stress. Movies are an antidote for that, not a way to cram even more angst into life. Besides, if you want to be enraged or provoked, the place to be is an Internet talkback. Everyone knows that.
Suck my Balls DePalma by johnyaztec	Nov 7th, 2007 09:32:06 PM
This movie oozes of HACK!!! Suck my balls DePalma, its time you hang it up. You dont care about the war your just trying to be relevent again. I hope DePalma gets diabetes and has to have his leggs cut off keeping him from making another movie. !!!EAT A DICK YOU OLD FUCK!!!
Bear by Holy Hell	Nov 7th, 2007 09:33:34 PM
Life is hard. I work all the time, am having a baby, wife doesn't get maternity leave, had to cancel cable to save up for daycare, etc. But my country's character is in mortal danger. We cannot ignore the insights artists are especially well suited to provide. I do not want my sons and daughters brough up inot a world of tyranny, injustice, and propoganda. Some movies just entertain. Some challenge corrurption. Those are called "art" and are absolutely essential to human civilization. Good night.
Holy hell by redshirt	Nov 7th, 2007 09:35:00 PM
Why do you insist that incompetence and misguidance are recent things? Wars are full of screw ups and incompetence. They are usually won by the last one standing, not necessarily the best led. Maybe if Lincoln had dumped McClellan earlier in the civil war, there might have been a hundred thousand or so fewer American deaths? Be glad that Bush finally got it right with Patraeus and the surge, rather than staying the course a few more years. Have you read Michael Yon's latest dispatch?
johnny by Holy Hell	Nov 7th, 2007 09:35:31 PM
Get yourself a dog or something. Just to chill you out- don't fuck it or anything. Jesus.
HOLY HELL by BringingSexyBack	Nov 7th, 2007 09:39:02 PM
Hey. It's a real pleasure reading your refreshingly poignant posts; I've appreciated your insight since we crossed paths in the Stop-Loss talkback. I'm learning a lot, so thanks. Peace, later.
Holy Hell: Accepted Truths by kevinwillis.net	Nov 7th, 2007 09:41:16 PM
When you start using terms like "war-mongering neo-con"--re: Jew--"party starters", you aren't talking about objective truths but tennets of an ideological viewpoint, expressed in terms of inflammatory condemnation. And a lot of what you express in opinion, and others can disagree, and that's okay. No, really, it's cool.
Red by Holy Hell	Nov 7th, 2007 09:42:25 PM
I have never posited that "incompetence and misguidance" are recent phenomena. I've only insisted that I am. I will not have my government make just completely inept, potentially evil decisions IN MY NAME and sit quietly because people have been stupid forever. The surge has settled some things down. It is so astonishingly late and unambitious that it barely registers on the good news meter. The war has already destroyed the lives of millions, either dead or displaced. It has created power instabilities in neighoring countries, and encourages the radicalization of the Muslim street. I hope peace breaks out. It has to. But, my God, what an absolutely devil-dick this entire adventure has been. I'm angry and embarassed.
kw by Holy Hell	Nov 7th, 2007 09:45:32 PM
what chu talkin' 'bout, Willis? The march to war was certainly begun by those who self-identify as "neo-conservatives", no? I'm a bit confused...
More Anti-American crap from Hollywood... by TheGhostWhoLurks	Nov 7th, 2007 09:48:30 PM
that no one will watch in this country. And rightfully so. Let me know when Hollywood makes films that DON'T look like they were propaganda movies created by Al-Jezeera and Al-Qaeda.
Holy Hell by dartura	Nov 7th, 2007 09:49:41 PM
It's not DePalma himself, though his film is (by the accounts of the two reviews) certainly doesn't favor them if the only interactions are that of them gunning down a pregnant Iraqi woman and the raping and murdering of another. I'm speaking more to the overall tone of how Hollywood perceives them. Either they had to join, are ex-cons, are tricked into it as a way for them to leave behind their impoverished surroundings, or are sadistic individuals that joins so that they can kill. Being ex-military, I find those impressions all very wrong. Not in totality, but again, the math dictates otherwise. A lot of them fall back to the idea that our soldiers are misguided youth. Not after Basic they're not. Being an all volunteer force, the military weeds out the bulk of the questionable characters early on. If you're not 100% ready to be a soldier, then chances are, you're not making it through Basic. Maybe These movies are treating them different than that, but I judge whether I will watch a movie based on the trailer (Damn you Pearl Harbour!) and from what I see of this new offering of films, they all tell me something that I know to be false, or at the very least, suspect in its portrayal. But that's just my take on it.
Thanks BSB by Holy Hell	Nov 7th, 2007 09:51:38 PM
Peace
KEVINWILLIS by BringingSexyBack	Nov 7th, 2007 09:51:58 PM
Holy Hell was accurate in his descriptions of the NeoCons, despite your dismay. You see, the NeoCons have the President's ear. They directly influence and guide policy. They manipulate and distort information in order to create conflict, to achieve goals of a hidden agenda that's not broadcast on CNN or Fox, even. I don't think you're fully informed, but that's not necessarily your fault. Ignorance really is bliss for those too complacent to delve deep for the facts. Be honest. You really don't know who the NeoCons are, by name, by affiliation. For you, "NeoCon" is just a label for a certain kind of groupthink that you find agreeable, maybe even appealing. But because you're ill-informed about their true intents, plans and motives, you're really just a sheep lost in a herd. Maybe after you've read up on some actual facts you'd be in a better position to debate Holy Hell. Right now, you're not. Sorry.
Holy by redshirt	Nov 7th, 2007 09:54:09 PM
The muslim street hated us long before we went into Iraq. We just made the fence sitters take sides finally. Fortunately the peace loving muslims far outnumber the hate filled jihadis, and In Iraq, they are finally finding their voice. I really believe it will spread to the rest of the muslim world, but it might take a very long time. These are tumultuous times we live in, but Bush didn't create the situation. Things may also get a lot worse, however, with the situation in Pakistan and Iran. We shall see...
Dart by Holy Hell	Nov 7th, 2007 09:55:16 PM
That's fair, man. By the way, not to pander or condescend or what not, but thanks for signing up for service. My family's a bit military, and I know you guys don't do it for hero-worship, but for whatever reason(s) you did if for, thanks. I don't know about your overall impression of H'wood, though. Redacted seems pretty focused on depicting the abhorrent behavior of American soldiers, but I can't think of too many others that are. Recent films are certainly anti-war and critical of the government, but I don't think they've been terribly anti-soldier. Do you?
Red! by Holy Hell	Nov 7th, 2007 10:01:35 PM
We just made the fence-sitters take the WRONG side! Look, I'm no expert, and I won't pretend that influencing a fragile, impoverished, repressed, and somewhat fundamentalist culture towards moderation and democracy is easy, but shock, awe, and, uhh, watch people loot, and then, uhhh, imprison the only Iraqis able to manage the infrastructure, then maybe humilate prisoners and alienate ourselves from the more civil principles of the Western world seems like maybe the wrong way to go. I pray the moderate Muslims gain more traction, but this war should not be given credit for it.
RENDITION HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH SOLDIERS by BringingSexyBack	Nov 7th, 2007 10:07:43 PM
It was a fictional story (though certain actions were based on real accounts - see Maher Arar) about an Egyptian-American taken into custody at the airport and sent to a North African country for torture. Libya is one of the CIA's extraordinary rendition sites, so there is some basis in fact for the North African setting. In any case, the movie has nothing to do with soldiers. But judging from the large number of morons bashing the movie as anti-military (without having seen it, obviously), it seems the right-wingers are in the midst of some self-imposed state of stupid. I don't know about them, but I craft my words carefully so as not to embarass myself. Evidently they don't mind looking ignorant and just plain clueless.
Holy by redshirt	Nov 7th, 2007 10:17:17 PM
I don't think we influenced the fencesitters which side to take. Some were more predisposed to jihad than others, also, for many iraqi youth their only source of information was the local imam who preached hatred of America. (A problem which persists throughout the muslim world still, esp saudi arabia) Remember, most of the violence was against their fellow iraqis, not against soldiers. Far more civilians were killed than servicemen. I understand that if you thought your country was invaded you would want to fight them. But honestly, there is no way in hell I could ever get so mad at an invader that I would strap on a bomb and blow up a market, a church or even a police station, or more extreme, send my 12 year old son to do it! That takes a certain insanity or evil that can't be blamed on occupation. The french didn't do it to the germans during WWII. In fact I think the sheer barbarism of some of those attacks sent the bulk of the iraqi populace back into the fold of the Americans, who actually offered them a hopeful and safe future that they never would have had if it weren't for us.
PAKISTAN AND IRAN ARE 2 DOMINOES IN A LONG LINE by BringingSexyBack	Nov 7th, 2007 10:22:44 PM
of dominoes, Redshirt. Prior to the Iraqi invasion, fundamentalism in those countries were not extreme nor prevalent. But since the invasion, fundamentalism is not only on the rise in those countries (per the CIA's own reports), but others as well. Pakistan is officially down the rabbit hole, and they're nuclear. Saudi Arabia is walking a very thin line, as is Jordan. There was some measure of containment of extremists prior to Iraq, but now the whole Mideast is devolving into a state of anarchy. If you catch anyone even mentioning hope of democracy in the Mideast, you can now officially tell them they're crazy. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz fucked up. Too bad for the world they never got the lesson of Pandora's Box.
by Holy Hell	Nov 7th, 2007 10:27:56 PM
The Iraqi street was not radicalized before the war. There wer not suicide bombers there. The strong-arm dictatorship of Saddam Hussein kept that element at bay. The barbarity that has taken place subsequent to the US invasion has occurred as the Iranians fund Shiite militia movements to prostletize across the borders, as a result of Al Queda deciding to use the invasion as an opportunity to demonstrate American inability to bring peace, and the refugee crisis which has seen somewhat diverse Iraqi populations splinter and resolve into "Shiite" vs "Sunni". The stability of the country, as dictatorial as it was, was destroyed by the American invasion. Period. It was reckless, naive, and utterly incompetent. Obviously there was anti-American sentiment in the general Muslim street (hence 9-11), but the Iraq war has done NOTHING to moderate it. NOTHING. It has made it worse.
REDSHIRT - IT IS VERY MUCH TRUE by BringingSexyBack	Nov 7th, 2007 10:31:38 PM
that the insurgents use methods that are totally alien to the West. A kind of maniacal, zealotry-driven method that convinces people to kill themselves and untold others in service of God and country. But the NeoCons were warned about this. They were told by General Eric Shinseki that the war plan Rumsfeld concocted was insufficient to secure a post-invasion peace. For his honesty, he was fired. If they heeded his warning, the whole ordeal could have been either avoided, or handled successfully. It astonished me still how war supporters call everyone else anti-military, when it was the NeoCons who put the military in the worst possible position, costing untold numbers of lives. Never underestimate stupidity, I guess.
Hahaha. by Tal the Reviewer	Nov 7th, 2007 10:32:41 PM
Hi, I'm the guy that wrote a super-enthusiatic review of this movie and caught shit for it. I do this this film will put De Palma back on "the map", not because everyone will love it, but because anyone on the fence about De Palm's merits as a filmmaker are going to get pushed to one side or the other. I can't speak for other people or for De Palma, but as I watched it I wasn't thinking, "America is evil, boo-hoo". I was thinking, "War creates an environment where ordinary people do terrible things, and terrible people are inspired to attempt the worst shit imaginable."
BSB by redshirt	Nov 7th, 2007 10:33:05 PM
Don't you think that osama bin laden opened pandoras box? We were content to let them stew in their own shit until 9-11. It became Bushes job to try to clean up the swamp of islamic extremism. Maybe he didn't do the best job of it, but if he had done nothing it would have been a lot worse. Remember, Hussein could have still been alive and in power but he defied multiple UN resolutions and dicked around playing games with weapons inspectors. Maybe our intel was wrong, but other nations had arrived at the same conclusions as well. Given that we suspected iraq had wmd, we had no choice but to act. But that is past, Iran and Pakistan our what we have to face. Isral won't let Iran get the bomb, and India won't let islamic radicals take power in nuclear armed Pakistan. Blame Bush all you want, that accomplishes nothing. Whatever the US does, we have to be united and strong in how we face it, otherwise serious shit is going to hit the fan.
BSB by Holy Hell	Nov 7th, 2007 10:33:06 PM
Amen. I'm off to bed. hh, out.
Later Holy Hell by BringingSexyBack	Nov 7th, 2007 10:34:57 PM
Good show!
Holy by dartura	Nov 7th, 2007 10:42:23 PM
I don't know if they are 'anti-soldier' so much as anti-military. It might not be their intent, but it is definitely the impression. I don't believe that one is automatically anti-military if you are against the war. I do however reserve that right if the bulk of what you present me is off-base, unfounded, or only the very negative minority of actions/individuals. I see it the same as a person that is forever negative about (pick a subject). Regardless of what you tell them to the contrary, they continualy harp on the negative, however minute its presence may be to said subject. That seems (to me) what the bulk of releases are. Troops are (insert negative stereotype), America is doing (insert negative, unthinkable thing). Whenever you hear about some person bashing America for being (insert adjective of choice to describe a negative trait) I think, "Well, that may be true about somebody here, but not all of us. Not me. Not anyone I know." I tend to seek that when people refer to our military, or our government, or our country they at least pepper in a few positives. Not that I own a pair of rose colored glasses, either. We are not the individuals that are doing these things. But we ARE guilty by association. If all that ever gets out about something is negative, then all of those that are later attached to it are also considered negative. Thanks for the kind words referring to my service to the country. I guess I would just like Hollywood to do the same every now and then.
It's a fucking movie by reagon	Nov 7th, 2007 10:44:42 PM
Who gives a shit if Depalma is anti America. If you drink Bill OReilly's piss, you're probably not going to go see this movie anyway. Blockbuster has a lot of straight to video action movies you'll like a lot. It sounds like a cool movie to me. How pro America was Apocalypse Now? How many soldiers have seen and loved that movie? How about Full Metal Jacket. Is that a pro America movie? Who gives a shit if anything is a pro America movie? What are you a girl scout? You can't stand to watch any movie or TV show that doesn't blow smoke directly up your asshole? Shold all people that sign up for military service be put in special facilities when they're discharged with TV's that only show them Gomer Pyle reruns and Audie Murphy movies? Who gives a shit if somebody joins the military anyway? It's just a fucking job. Am I supposed to kiss my brother's ass for the rest of his life when he gets back from wherever he ends up going as an MP. He's a complete dumbass and I don't know why he enlisted in the first place, but he's no more special than anybody else that has a dangerous job. And while he's babysitting a bunch of soldiers in Basra or some shit, he won't be defending freedom any more than anybody that gets up every morning to teach an elementary class.
REDSHIRT by BringingSexyBack	Nov 7th, 2007 10:47:01 PM
I agree with you on Osama bin Laden, except that it's now obvious that Bush had, and has, no intent on going after him, the root cause of 9/11. That's so sickening it's beyond my capability of describing how I feel about it. The intel on Iraq was correct, when you look at the IAEA as the source of credible intel. They were the ones on the ground. Hans Blix, the chief inspector, told everyone that Iraq had no WMDs. The fact that previously known stockpiles of chemical weapons from the 80s could not be totally accounted for was, effectively, irrelevant. The shelf-life of those chemicals were known to have been long-expired and no longer effective. These facts were given to the Administration, and they ignored it and conjured up their own faked intel, because they were going to invade no matter what. Criticizing Bush today, now, is absolutely important because he's the one who got us in this mess, and shows no signs of deviating from his ways. With 1.5 years still to go, he can easily make things far worse with another attack elsewhere. Blindly rallying around the President would be the most self-destructive thing to do.
TAL by BringingSexyBack	Nov 7th, 2007 10:51:47 PM
PLANT!!! Just kidding. I appreciate your review. Seems like a lot of people here missed your viewpoint and just drew one out of the ether.
I'd really like to comment on these reviews. by Boromir	Nov 7th, 2007 10:52:52 PM
But I won't because I haven't served in the military. To comment on the military--or even a film involving some aspect of the military--without having served would be to exercise my rights and responsibilities as an American citizen and taxpayer. Which would make me a vile traitor. So no, I won't give in to the temptation to comment. Because if I comment on America's military without having served, the terrorists have obviously won.
Tal by dartura	Nov 7th, 2007 10:58:29 PM
I can't agree with your sentiment that "War creates an environment where ordinary people do terrible things, and terrible people are inspired to attempt the worst shit imaginable." Could you ever see yourself raping a 13yr old girl? Ever? I can't. But I am asked to believe that it's a possible outcome if one is without electricity for several weeks and forced to exist in unbearable heat for the duration. Ask any of the folks that were in the Superdome. I know people that had to listen to stories about how there were gangs of guys just waiting to find some hapless girl alone to do whatever to them. I sat for 19 days of August and 12 days of September without power. Never once did I look outside the window and see a young girl walking around and think, "Well, I'm sweating my butt off, I have had no television or anything cold to drink, or even a hot meal for weeks. Guess I'll go rape that girl. Any one wanna join me?" I never once thought about grabbing a shotgun and breaking into a house and killing the occupants dogs, leaving them there for them to find when they returned, then robbing the place clean. Yet there are people that did exactly that. All of it. I don't see them as the 'norm' of people walking around that were suddenly altered by horrible conditions. Of the 20,000 people in the dome, or the tens of thousands that had to do without all across the South, they make up a distinct minority. They were that sick before the storms hit. The storms did not make them that way, no more than a war can make someone who would normally not do something reprehensible, do it.
So let me get this straight... by 5 by 5	Nov 7th, 2007 11:44:27 PM
if you agree with someone you drink their piss? Annnyyyway. I was a police officer in the military. Yes, there is a criminal element in the military, just as there is a criminal element in any human organization. Wow. How new and compelling. I wonder why this story was chosen to focus on during wartime. Was it to make it look as if American soldiers are generally doing harm to Iraqi's? Whatever. If that's the case, won't work with me. I know the vast majority of my brothers and sisters in arms are good folks.
BSB by redshirt	Nov 7th, 2007 11:44:40 PM
I think allowing Iran to go nuclear or allowing Pakistans nukes to fall into the hands of jihadis would be a lot more self destructive than "blindly rallying around the president" About Osama, if he is in Pakistan, as is widely believed, that really put Bush in a bind. To go after him would have turned the people of Pakistan really against Musharref, who has a very tentative grip on power. I think keeping him in control is the more important objective. But Pakistan is one of those puzzle traps that no matter how you manipulate it, it bites you in the ass. We support democracy, so they must have elections. However, Osama himself would probably get elected, therefore, we have to support someone who is appearing more and more like adictator. What's the solution? You tell me.
by Tourist	Nov 8th, 2007 12:21:33 AM
"Hollywood hasn't had anyone in two generations actually serve in combat." How about Oliver Stone. You fucking retard. "He sleeps safe in his bed at night because there are hard men willing to do violence on his behalf". Nice to know you can't sleep soundly at night if your pay cheque isn't contributing to someone raping and murdering children. The constant, incessant harping of all these ex soldiers about how their service ensured the right for Depalma to make these horrid judgement calls on their behaviour is retarded too. You toiling away like a pig in the middle of a country you had absolutely no need to be in, and who was less of a threat before you fucked it up, protected no ones rights.
datura by Tal the Reviewer	Nov 8th, 2007 01:01:30 AM
I'm not disagreeing with you, and I think you just misinterpreted what I wrote: "War creates an environment where ordinary people do terrible things, and terrible people are inspired to attempt the worst shit imaginable." I meant to separate the ordinary person and the terrible person into two separate categories. By "terrible people", I'm referring to rare people like Steven Green, who was by all accounts a sociopath before he even got to Iraq, and reportedly enlisted will the sole interest in killing someone. Many sources corroborate this. By ordinary people, I'm talking about the average twenty-something year-old soldier, given an assault rifles, and with little qualification or experience, empowered to make life or death decisions in a hostile, surreal, foreign environment. If you saw the movie, you'd get what I mean. There's a great sequence in the movie dedicated to car checkpoints. Guys standing around in blistering heat, wearing 50 plus pounds of gear, and wondering if the next car that approaches is a suicide bomber. It's a glorified toll booth, and the soliders are bored and anxious at the same time. Even though nothing's happening, it's they're job to pay attention, and they risk there life if they don't. It reaches a point that when something bad does happen, they're almost relieved.
by Pompoulus	Nov 8th, 2007 01:48:20 AM

Yay message movie!!! by Pompoulus	Nov 8th, 2007 01:50:03 AM
Hollywood throws em at us in a bunch, scattergun style. I have a funny feeling this will be another movie that tells me things I've already heard, and makes me uncomfortable along the way.
Cancelling Cable To Save Up for Daycare by kevinwillis.net	Nov 8th, 2007 06:13:40 AM
I did the same. Didn't miss it, was sad when we got it back. Only I wasn't whining about it or blaming America or the Iraq war. And sure you want your sons and daughters brought up in a world of tyranny, injustice, and propaganda: just the _correct_ kind. The Islam-is-a-religion-of-peace, SUVs-cause-global-warming, higher-taxes-are-good-for you, the-government-knows-what-to-d o-with-your-money/property/hea lthcare--kind. I'm sure that'll be cool.
BringingSexyBack: You So Silly by kevinwillis.net	Nov 8th, 2007 06:28:14 AM
"Holy Hell was accurate in his descriptions of the NeoCons, despite your dismay." Really? Do Tell! "You see, the NeoCons have the President's ear. They directly influence and guide policy." Really? Why, those dirty Jews! Tell me, what are we going to do about The Jewish Problem? "They manipulate and distort information in order to create conflict" Create conflict? Why, you must absolutely hate that! "to achieve goals of a hidden agenda that's not broadcast on CNN or Fox, even." Then how does one learn of this nefariousness? The Daily Kos? Don't say books! Because, as a conservative, of course I just hate to read. It cuts into the time I like to spend polluting the environment or clubbing baby seals. "I don't think you're fully informed" Oh, obviously not. I only wish I could be smart like you. "but that's not necessarily your fault. Ignorance really is bliss for those too complacent to delve deep for the facts." Well, that's me. I don't agree with your conspiracy theories because I'm ignorant and lazy. "Be honest. You really don't know who the NeoCons are, by name, by affiliation." Well, no, of course not. I'm ignorant, as is anybody who disagrees with you. I've never heard of The Project for the New American Century. I certainly haven't heard lefties rail against NeoCons like William Kristol, Paul Wolfowitz, Norman Podohertz, etc. "For you, 'NeoCon' is just a label for a certain kind of groupthink that you find agreeable," That's me, drinking the Kool-Aid all day while brave little you always thinks for yourself. How comforting that must be for you! "But because you're ill-informed about their true intents, plans and motives, you're really just a sheep lost in a herd." That's me! Baaaaaaa! "Maybe after you've read up on some actual facts you'd be in a better position to debate Holy Hell." Oh, wow. Well, thanks for being on my side, there, BSB.
KEVINWILLIS SOUNDS BITTER THIS MORNING by BringingSexyBack	Nov 8th, 2007 06:34:21 AM
Maybe you should try a Sleep Number mattress. Find your sleep number and wake up refreshed. Every day.
DePalma's Problem Is Not Just Being Anti-American by kevinwillis.net	Nov 8th, 2007 06:36:14 AM
The movie sounds crappy. And his track record for watching watchable films recently hasn't been all that great. And when he talks about Redacted, it doesn't make me want to see it. Full Metal Jacket and Apocalypse Now were good movies because they were good movies. Plus, ya know, Kubrick and Francis Ford Coppola. I think coming at a movie with the attitude of "hey, I'm going to vomit up all my personal political ideology into a movie" doesn't make good movies. It certainly doesn't attract a large audience. The box office of recent anti-war, anti-military movies would tend to bear that out. But if one of those movies has something more to it, like a Grace is Gone or Charlie Wilson's War, I'm betting you'll see bang-up box office. But those movies are less ideological barfing and more "movies-in-a-setting-with-a-st ory" . . . you know, what most people watch movies for.
I Am Bitter, Dammit! by kevinwillis.net	Nov 8th, 2007 06:37:38 AM
Who wouldn't be, in this cold, cruel, post-Patriot Act world? And I think I would benefit from a Sleep Number bed. But, dang, they are awfully pricey.
RELAX KEVIN. YOU HAVE MORE ANIMOSITY TOWARDS AMERICANS by BringingSexyBack	Nov 8th, 2007 06:44:01 AM
than Islamo-terrorists. You're sounding like AnimalStructure on a bad day. Agree to disagree, but your hatred of DePalma is just over the top. You haven't even seen it, so how can you call Redacted "crappy"? Anti-American? Why not throw in a "commie", "pinko" and "socialist" in there to make it a complete crazy meal? RELAX KEVIN, HYPERTENSION IS NOT GOOD.
I don't have a Sleep Number but a Tempur-Pedic by BringingSexyBack	Nov 8th, 2007 06:49:46 AM
I like it, but sometimes I prefer a firmer bed so a Sleep Number should do the trick. It's not that expensive when you consider that you spend 1/3 of your life in bed and good sleep is important to you and your wife's health. Get rid of the cable and buy one today.
by Lil´Ze	Nov 8th, 2007 06:52:56 AM
I saw Redacted in Sao Paulo, and for me it´s one of De Palma´s best works. I don´t think je´s "invisible" as a director, he delivered a very hard, but also very ironic movie, and he uses the "tools" of home edition (cuts like power point and other stuff) much like he used split screen in his other films. The fake-french documentary, BARRAGE, inside the movie, is very, very ironic, and most people don´t get that. The use of Handel´s Sarabande (AKA Barry Lyndon opening music) is amazing. One of the years´s best movies, and, sadly, destined to be praised only in a few years (much like Carlito´s way or Casualties of war).
KEVIN, THE SLEEP NUMBER 3000 IS PRICED AT $499 by BringingSexyBack	Nov 8th, 2007 06:57:57 AM
Check it out. No payments until 2009, and there's a 30 day in-home trial. Not bad. Cheaper than Blu-Ray.
LIL ZE by BringingSexyBack	Nov 8th, 2007 07:03:30 AM
Was it a screening? I don't even know when Redacted is opening, but I'm keeping an eye out for it here. Are Brazilians excited that Helio Castroneves has made it this far on Dancing With The Stars? I've been voting non-stop for him and Julianne every week, I hope the Brazilians are too. If the whole country votes, he can definitely win this season. Spread the good word!
Lil'Ze is the First Review by kevinwillis.net	Nov 8th, 2007 08:55:37 AM
That made this movie sound interesting. Now I'm on the fence.
BSB: Animosity Towards Americans by kevinwillis.net	Nov 8th, 2007 08:57:20 AM
Come on, what kind of bait is that? I'm not biting on that scraggly worm. Give me something juicy, then maybe I'll take the bait. Just make sure the title IS IN ALL CAPS!
Tempur-Pedic Beds by kevinwillis.net	Nov 8th, 2007 09:03:46 AM
Can't stand 'em. Takes all kinds, tho. I do like the Sleep Number bed, but I like the $2k-$3k model. Pretty much has to be a king, and has to have the pillow top. I'll keep thinking about it.
Tourist by TCSailor	Nov 8th, 2007 09:04:05 AM
Is Oliver Stone 2 generations back? I count that as three, but okay, the man won a bronze star and I have no beef with him. Perhaps I should have put "Hollywood has had ONE actor, producer, director serve in combat in two generations." Does that look better to you? ONE. MY BAD. I sleep safe in my bed because I am a combat-trained whacko paranoid American gun-nut and am armed to the teeth with firearms within easy reach in every room in my 5000 square foot house which has the walls covered with gruesome trophies of my many kills over the years across the globe. I also will exercise the freedoms I defended (which are not garaunteed by the Bill of Rights and the Constitution and merely defended by vets) when I express to you that you are worthless and weak and invite you to go fuck yourself. I am of course kidding. About the house and guns and all. And the trophies. But not about inviting you to fuck yourself. Oh my, no.
BSB... by DoctorWho?	Nov 8th, 2007 09:16:13 AM
I pretty much nailed it onthe head didnt I? BTY, the fact that you watch mindless TV like Dancing With The Stars ,AND vote weekly undercuts any percieved intelligence you might have had.
I think the second reviewer is wrong.... by D o o d	Nov 8th, 2007 09:29:12 AM
I think people will want to see it and see it because it is dark and depressing. I'm totally for movies being about escapism and all that but they can also be a source for making people aware about what's going on. Sometimes they're even more effective than the news. Not everyone wants to bury their head in the sand and avoid difficult subjects. Well done De Palma for taking a risk.
How predictable by ditkaman	Nov 8th, 2007 12:16:28 PM
A Hollywood liberal depicting our soldiers as child-raping criminals? No way! How unexpected. What's that you say? You're surprised it took Hollywood so long to lambaste the troops? Me too. Throw this right in the crap pile where the other 90% of De Palma's work is.
Bitter by ditkaman	Nov 8th, 2007 12:33:42 PM
Also, I paid money to see Black Dahlia. I may be a little bitter. I can't ever forgive him for that.
Military Blindness by death_by_powerpoint	Nov 8th, 2007 01:02:00 PM
Thanks to all who expressed their support - it really does mean a lot when you're stuck over here (Kevin - do go thank the next military person you see...a handshake means more than a bumper sticker). I think some, however, missed my point. As a Soldier (tangent - Batman...current DoD policy is that the word Soldier is a proper noun) I do not have the same rights as a civilian. I voluntarily waived many of my freedoms - speech and assembly, for example - when I signed my contract...falling under both civilian law and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Whether I support the current administration's policy is irrelevant. I have a job to do, and I do it well. Madoo - you are absolutely correct, I have no way of proving my credentials...but if you accept them for even the sake of argument: As a Soldier, I have a duty both to the mission and to my fellows. By doing my job, I both assist in destroying the enemy (and trust me, the reporting you see does not do justice to how bad some of these dudes are) and in making sure more of the kids out there on the streets get home alive and whole. I know I am way off topic from the movie...I note again, the animals that did this crime should and will be punished...the point is that MY job is to give up my freedom to protect the civilian - and I do it gladly. YOUR job is to make sure that my sacrifice - and my duty - is put to just and necessary use. It is the Politician, not the Soldier, that chooses the war. And it is the civilians that choose the Politician.
Death by Powerpoint.... by D o o d	Nov 8th, 2007 01:36:53 PM
You do make a very good point and you have made it quite with some class. I do believe that the military does a very important service and it's up the goverments and politicians to make sure that they do their job just as responsibly. I wouldn't go to see this movie and spit on all american troops or wherever they come from. I'd see it as a message of how aweful war can be. I haven't seen the movie yet but will just so as I can make my own mind up. After all this is one directors (one persons) point of view. I'm not sure when the studio's green lit this they were thinking that they could cash in on it completely. I could be completely wrong..
hey, The_Blood_Is_Love by blonde redhead	Nov 8th, 2007 05:06:54 PM
you said: Only a fucking clown would think that this is a dramatic exscuse. The real soldiers who are being depicted were undergoing psychiatric evaluations before the rape and were seriously damaged mentally. If this is this, then I've lost all respect for Depalma. Can I ask you what the fuck they were doing in the military then?
... scratches head!! by football	Nov 8th, 2007 05:37:47 PM
Is this going to be another shit De Palma movie that doesn't live up to the hype and all the good work he's done in the past?
willis! by Holy Hell	Nov 8th, 2007 05:40:05 PM
I'm sorry I couldn't read and respond to your nonsense sooner! I was gently mocking, dear will, the post of another who'd claimed that life was too exhausting to bother with films that tried to do something other than simply entertain. I'm doing what I've got to do to get by, it does NOT feel like much of a sacrifice, and I'm certainly not blaming anyone for it, including those who's logic serves a point of view contrary to the established power structure. Holy Moley, that was osrt of my point with that post. You don't know me that well; why would you make ignorant assumptions about my belief system? I'm registered Independent, a fiscal conservative, socially pretty liberal (but opposed to late-term abortion and think single parenthood should be discouraged), a church-going Christian, born certified "free school lunch", and think people should work for a living. I also think SUV's and the reckless consumption of fossil fuel is idiotic both ecologically and geo-politically. I also think the war in Iraq is utterly indefensible as both a moral project and as an intellectual exercise. You seemed kind of rational and even-handed the other day, even if I didn't agree with many of your points. Why have you apparently killed your rational curiosity?
DePalma's desperation... by thegreatwhatzit	Nov 8th, 2007 06:45:47 PM
The man's previous films have been grievous critical and financial failures. So he courts "controversy" by exploiting a more "topical" polemic. Instead of ripping-off Hitchcock, he rips-off THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT. Whether you are pro or con regarding the Iraq contretemps, we can all agree on something: the first review is an unbridled plant.
www.aint-it-liberal-propaganda.c om by uss cygnus	Nov 8th, 2007 11:00:42 PM
This is embarrassing that movies like this get this kind of coverage here, pure and simple. Does Al Jazeera and moveon.org pay for bandwidth here?
by Tourist	Nov 9th, 2007 12:12:14 AM
The movie depicts them as child raping criminals because they raped a child and are criminals. How delusional are you people? I can't believe you defend the rape and murder of children because the fuckers were wearing a uniform. By the way, I won't go and fuck myself. So, there you go.
by Tourist	Nov 9th, 2007 12:12:15 AM
The movie depicts them as child raping criminals because they raped a child and are criminals. How delusional are you people? I can't believe you defend the rape and murder of children because the fuckers were wearing a uniform. By the way, I won't go and fuck myself. So, there you go.
Right-Wing Friends. by micturatingbenjamin	Nov 9th, 2007 12:40:09 PM
Hey, I get it. You see the coming ice age, and you know that your ancient and myopic and intellectually dishonest way of governance is coming to an ugly extinction. If the dinosaurs had brains larger than a sparrow, they would become reactionary zealots against the coming winter as well, just like the Right Wing Preservationists feel the crushing weight of the brown people, the religiously different people, the public at large. They fear the truth of this America...democracy throttling the racist, the authoritarian, the zealot, removing from office people of intolerance and profit hungry tools of corporate sponsors. Keep quacking about moveon and Al Jazeera...keep sounding your mighty yawp about how 'you wish things were like the old days' but won't admit when the evidence and facts point to politically inconvenient or embarrassing truths. Such as: War degrades everyone. It is not a tool for economic gain, and we're seeing that not everyone is fooled by 'the terrorists hate our freedom' or 'freedom is on the march'. Really, Right Wing Friends? Well, ask Pakistan if 'freedom is on the march'...Benezir Bhutto nearly got killed after setting foot back in the shining democracy of Pakistan, yeah? How about the 'shining example of democracy' known as Afghanistan. Iraq is all fucked up, and we don't have the slightest idea other than 'stop the flow of Saddam's oil' as far as what to do with Iraq. The ugly fact is that Iraq is all kinds of fucked up, our guys fuck up, and people die. Then, you have a portion of our guys going fucking crazy because our Right Wing Friends think that they don't need time back away from constant life threatening danger to remind them why they're fucking getting shot at and dying in the first place. They're surrounded at all times by people who want them away from their land, their country, their families. Even the ones who like us want us to leave because the radicals who used the softened borders to begin attacking our troops who don't have a clear mission. And our friends there are caught in the crossfire because we're there. Let's be intellectually honest. What's the GOAL of Operation Kill All the Muslims in Iraq? Every war has a pre-condition of victory. When your pre-condition of victory is simply declaring war on a political stance, you're setting up a non-attainable victory condition. Initially, and don't lie now, the condition for victory was disarming Saddam Hussein. We did that in a matter of days, and the collateral damage was ungodly. Saddam has since met his maker at the hands of a screaming pack of wolves who were circling his gates for years. This reason morphed into 'Al Qaeda' is in Iraq, we need to foster a new democracy and prevent terrorism. We didn't do this successfully, because the neutral state for the Middle East seems to tend toward Theocracy or Representative Monarchy. We have a nearsighted and completely Amer-o-centric view of how the world should be. America is not about exporting the abstract concept of freedom or the political structure of democracy around the world. Our Constitution says so. Instead, in Iraq, the problem seems to be we refuse to see the truth: Our military occupation of this country is viewed as unjust by those who don't hold American citizenship. Put yourself in an Iraqi's shoes: You're at work, and someone rushes in saying that Putin has said 'We're going to liberate the people of America, and topple the tyrranical regime of Bush'. Then, bombs start falling and soldiers march through our streets. What would you do? I would take up arms and learn more about bombs and defending my home and my family. There is no 'win' scenario in Iraq, because the current administration has a geopolitical theory drenched in the crackpot ideas of a long-since debunked neo-fascist. (Friedman) Are they evil? No more evil than I or you for doing what's best for you. But you, as an American, should drop this 'Liberal vs. Preservationist' divisive nonsense and just look at the rule of law to help you make decisions. The facts are in. Iraq is an illegal occupation of a nation, we need to begin 'beyond the horizon' policing actions and bring the troops home YESTERDAY.
About this Movie... by micturatingbenjamin	Nov 9th, 2007 12:50:57 PM
It's just another 'up to the minute' potboiler, trying to get people's ire up and to make a director relevant who hasn't been for a while. I also thought that his other flick was a little heavy-handed. Criminals should be punished. The guys who committed these crimes should be punished, and I believe are in the process of just that. Flicks like this fuel the base of the 'Liberals' who think that 'war is bad, mmkay' and refuse to see the truth of the world: War is not pleasant, it is in fact the last option when all else fails. Our current administration believes in the 'shock doctrine', making any potential enemy reconsider attacking us as it would be insane. I think there's a little validity to that idea, but you should really use that doctrine against the culprits of attacks on the US. I.E. not politically convenient targets like Iraq. I support the troops is easy to say, but visiting my local VFW is part of my weekend. Calling my cousins in Iraq is part of my week. Letting them know that they are truly heroic for continuing service in the face of our Right Wing Friends of having them serve out 169 days, one day shy of their benefits then bringing them home and shipping them back out for another 169! WHOOOEEE! Right Wing Friends, stop 'supporting our troops' already. Most of those Chinese Magnets have lead based paint! HAHAHA! Just kidding, but wouldn't it be just our luck that Indian or Pakistani companies were making those wonderful ribbon magnets? Better yet, Saudis, the REAL terror threat in the Middle East. This movie sounds like it's going to be a shocky-potboiler. Pass.
And about the phrase 'Islamo-Fascist' by micturatingbenjamin	Nov 9th, 2007 12:58:02 PM
It doesn't mean a fucking thing. The word is a nonsense mish-mash of two ideas that seem scary to the ignorant - Islam and Fascist. If the 'terrorists' are Islamofascists, then you're an ignofuckingdouchetard.
Are you fucking shitting me... by poeticwarriorII	Nov 14th, 2007 11:47:15 PM
these two braind dead fucks think this bucket of vomit is Art and one of his best movies??? Goddamn could you pick two more retarded motherfuckers to get reviews from next time?? The script for this fucking thing had to be one of the most amateur bush league POS I've seen in a long while. This fucker had to be made for TV. Was this going to be like a Military Channel first or some shit? Because that's what it looked like. This fucker will tank.

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