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I'm First by Pifto	Apr 14th, 1999 04:13:25 AM
Thought I'd just say hi fo the hell of it and no one else sees to be using this talk back.
excuse me... by Uncle Cracky	Apr 14th, 1999 06:08:06 AM
...but this Talkback IS occupied. I know "Iron Giant" will be great, but why is it that anime is constantly and collectively ignored around here? Harry, what about Princess Mononoke? Americans aren't forging any new frontiers with their so-called "growing-up-in-animation" phase. We're just trying to catch up with the Japanese. Sure, most of what we see is all demons raping pre-teens and that cal, but that's just because that's what sells over here. And if you insist on being in here, Pifto, could you pass the toilet paper? Thanks!
Iron Giant and anime by Typhoon	Apr 14th, 1999 06:41:33 AM
Is it just me, or does that boy look a little like the younger Robin in BTAS? Not that it's a ripoff...the character designs look good and the Giant nicely treads between 1950s industrial design and a more modern look. If this film is infused with the right emotion and humanity, then it should be a great moment in American animation. I agree, though, that it's a little late to call this groundbreaking. Feature-length anime like Wings of Honneamise, Macross Plus, Miyazaki films, the last Kimagure Orange Road episode and others tell excellent, even powerful stories with solid characters without resorting to the "ultra-violence" and adolescent sexual acts like what American press has implied goes with all Japanese animation. I also think that the feature-length Batman films and Prince Of Egypt have been the groundbreakers in American animation, much for the same reasons as I listed for the Japanese films. If POE had left out the musical numbers (especially that one mess), it would have been the milestone that we still seem to be looking for. GO AWAY DISNEY.
re: that one mess by Uncle Cracky	Apr 14th, 1999 07:54:11 AM
I assume you're referring to "You're Playing With the Big Boys Now," that horrendous duet with Steve Martin & Martin Short. Arguably one of the worst songs in any recent musical, animated or otherwise.
Iron Giant and Anime by Walter Burns	Apr 14th, 1999 08:06:30 AM
Uncle Cracky and Typhoon make good points re: Anime. However, what is exciting about Iron Giant is that it stands some chance of getting some decent distribution and marketing unlike any anime cinema releases to date in the western world (though I'm hoping that Mononoke Hime will break this pattern). Whether it (and Mononoke) get a decent audience or not is another matter. The worst thing that could happen is that both these films tank, and the studios go back to the old "Animated films must conform to the Disney formula to make money" attitude. Before I get flamed by Disney lovers - and I know your out there - any discussion that involves the mouse house - or Dreamworks - seems to bring out the most rabid of "true believers" - I'm not knocking the Diz, I just want to see some variety out there. ps: I've asked before, but does anyone know if Iron Giant and/or Mononoke Hime have distribution deals/release dates for the UK ?
yes, but... by Uncle Cracky	Apr 14th, 1999 08:16:06 AM
the future of animation doesn't hinge on the success of either of these movies. Part of the reason so much anime IS good is because they have the ability to concentrate on quality instead of mass-appeal. I'd take a steady stream of increasingly mind-blowing anime to anything the big studios could churn out. It's all in the craftmanship. Henry Ford wrote this country's destiny in stone when he opened his new-fangled "assembly line." I hope I will live long enough to eat those words, I really do.
Trailer... by Rocqueja	Apr 14th, 1999 08:41:30 AM
This movie better be better than the trailer and the plot description 'cause right now they don't look all that special!
yes, but, but.... by Walter Burns	Apr 14th, 1999 09:07:19 AM
...agreed. But I actually want to be able to see good animated films on the screen. Short of moving to Japan, the studios (or the distribs at least) need to feel that there is a market out there for more 'mature' animation for this to happen - that's why I think the success of IG and Mononoke is important. Maybe if they do fail audiancewise, it won't be a disaster, but if they do good biz, then it would give real impetus. Anime on video is great (with the downside as you pointed out that a high proportion of what is imported being of the demon/rape/tenticles variety which doesn't count as 'mature', in my book), but I want good stuff at the theatres.
Anime-Shmanime by Buddyboy	Apr 14th, 1999 09:26:52 AM
Anime looks cool, and once in a while, they contain extremely potent action scenes--more often better than ANY live action film made ANYwhere. BUT--let's face it. Anime HARDLY contains much that audiences can identify with. I've seen "Princess Mononoke" (cool stuff, but NO "Totoro!!) and once I had, I figured that if I'd been raised in the Japanese culture, I might understand the Japanese legends they illustrated. Guess what? I asked many of my Japanese friends (raised in Japan) and they had NO IDEA what it was about!!! It has nothing to do with "Kids Films" like "Prince of Egypt" or Family Films like "A Bug's Life." "Iron Giant" just sounds like a GREAT MOVIE. It might have been made Live Action, but it's obviously been made BETTER in animation (Dreamworks--take the hint).
ANIME by Charlie Oakley	Apr 14th, 1999 09:29:41 AM
Anime has already achieved a handful of masterpieces. Disney-style animation is SO different from them... no point in comparing the two. Miyasaki rules supreme in my personal preferences, but many others have delivered equal -if more infrequent- excellence. Ghibli is the house where perfection dwells. Mononoke -which I have seen- is politically very complex and emotionally arid by comparison with KIKI or PORCO ROSSO or TOTORO, but it is THE most "adult" Miyasaki film. There is disenchantment and pathos enough to warrant a difficult time with Western audiences, but, hey! We'll see. As for IRON GIANT, what I've seen is mind-blowing, forget the trailer!! Brad Bird didn't have input on that (he actually didn't want the giant to be shown). Wait for the movie. I hated the BIG BOYS number in POE. no kid, no adult, NO ONE enjoyed that 3-minute turd. Pure musical dhiarrea, conventional animation and useless humor in a "ground-breaking" movie. DVD copies should have the "BIG BOYS-free" version available.
This is a great Talkback! by Prankster	Apr 14th, 1999 10:09:07 AM
This has been an excellent Talkback so far, no mudslinging, no divergence from the topic (Well, I think anime is a relevent topic to this discussion). ****** Anyway, I have to admit I'm not a fan of anime. I haven't seen Wings of Mayonnaise, or whatever, but I have seen the other biggies, and I have to say the only ones I'm impressed with are Miziyaki's. Anime can have a lot of heart, or it can be more visually dazzling than any American animated film, or it can be inventive, but I haven't seen any that conform to all three of these conditions. I think western animation is doing more than just "catching up" to Japanese...in fact, I think it's getting ready to surpass it very soon. Not in the heads-ripped-off buckets-of-blood and nudity sense, but in almost every other way. Western animation is still mostly smoother (though not usually as subtle--the exception being POE). Western tends to be more visually inventive (except for Akira and a handful of others), and I usually get the impression that western style is taking advantage of the medium more. Anime often seems to be treading over the same tired cyberpunk/high-tech ground as it always has. As for the storytelling, well, I have no complaints about Miziyaki, but the rest of it...I feel it suffers from the differences between the two cultures. But there's also a few genuine flaws, like insane amounts of dull exposition (Ghost in the Shell is a particular offender here). Basically I feel western animation (which, obviously, has it's own set of horrible flaws--which it's slowly overcoming) is more likely to provide the kind of animated movies I like to see--something with a truly original world, a unique style, a great storytelling sense, and a heart. So far, Toy Story, Beauty and the Beast, and Batman: MOTP (this decade) stand head and shoulders above anime in these categories.
Songs... by Jonte	Apr 14th, 1999 10:47:43 AM
Is it just me who think that there actually has been some great songs in animated movies? I admit that the quality hasn't been that good in the 80's and 90's (Beauty & the Beast may be the only exception) but, come on, songs like "Alice in Wonderland", "Someday my Prince will come","When you wish upon a Star" etc. are classics and I do think they have a valid place in animation.
Anime (re: Blah Blah) by Gordian	Apr 14th, 1999 11:08:26 AM
I understand your belief that American animation has more heart, story, etc., but I believe that it may be an opinion based on a lack of information. Beyond Miyazaki Hiyao, there are as many great artists and directors in the field of Anime in Japan as there are directors and artists in film in the United States. For example, Shinseki Evangelion (Neon Genesis Evangelion) by Ano, Macross Plus and Vision of Escaflowne both by the same creative teams, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, Video Girl Ai, and so many others. Unfortunately, most video stores in the states do not stock these titles because they do not have an American release. Additionally, for the "newby", how can you know what to watch when you don't want to watch "La Blue Girl" and its ilk (tentacle-demon-alien-rape)? And even if you were willing to buy that which is commercially available, it is really expensive stuff (25 bucks for 1 hour). The biggest problem is exposure, and I believe that any animation in the US that can be enjoyed by adults (Spawn, Gargoyles, BTAS, The Tick) is good exposure. If you are interested in finding out about some great anime, check out www.anipike.com, www.animevillage.com, or www.cjas.org. That last one contains a great amount of reviews for the Cornell Japanese Animation Society news letter, and can be a great resource for those who wish to broaden their horizons. I think you will all be more than pleasantly surprised with what you will find.
Anime... by Buddyboy	Apr 14th, 1999 01:40:48 PM
Story and Heart doesn't mean "for kids (and I don't mean to suggest that's what you meant)", but bad taste and being just plain boring certainly doesn't mean being "adult (see "Prince of Egypt" and "Antz."). I've seen plenty of "anime," "My Neighbor Totoro" and "Ninja Scroll" being my favorites. I'd rather watch "Iron Giant" and "Toy Story" to get my adult movie kicks.
Macross Neo Power Suit Ultra Gundam Weasel Jacket Scroll 4: The by Prankster	Apr 14th, 1999 03:04:02 PM
That's what most anime titles sound like to me, and I don't have any particular wish to track them down. I mean, I've seen the "Citizen Kane" of anime (Akira, or so a friend of mine has called it) and the "Casablanca" (that's my own parallel for Kiki's Delivery Service) and I simply have no desire to see anything at a lower level. Grave of the Fireflies, Ghost in the Shell, Totoro, plus a few obscure ones and TV favourites like "Sailor Moon" and "Astro Boy". As I said, I haven't seen Wings of Hominy Grits, and I'm waiting for the big release of "Mononoke" to see it, but otherwise I think I've seen the best the genre has to offer. So unless there are some others that blow all of these out of the water, my original contention stands: anime is interesting, but not something I'm particularly enthused about. (Except for Mononoke. I'm very iinterested in seeing that.)
RE: Anime by Dlhstar	Apr 14th, 1999 06:04:02 PM
I used to be sorta deep into anime until the mid-90's. Anime gets plenty of respect in the marketplace and by critics. If you go to a video or record store, you see tons of titles (adult and nonadult), and nearly every major comics title had utilized an anime-esqe quality in recent years. Anime is just like any other genre, it's got some great titles, some decent ones, and some just garbage ones. The only thing that is stopping american animation from reaching the same heights is that no one thinks they can stand up to Disney and their song and dance animation (I do like Lion King, however. BTW, remember Disney rereleasing Little Mermaid the same time Fox was coming out with Anastasia? (To hurt it's chances, IMO)) AND fear that making a cartoon TOO mature will irk the wrong people. (ie. People who get upset that cartoons would have anything that cound ) WB has had trouble with successful animated movies. Batman:MOTP didn't do very well, IIRC nor did Quest for Camelot. Seeing the IG trailer a few days ago, I really HOPE the whole thing is as good as the few minutes I saw. It reminded me of the Secret of NIHM, a great, forgotten, overlooked film. Does anyone know of it's box office success or failure? I hope we can all hope IG not only kicks total ass, but makes a ton of money to get people away from singing, dancing cartoons. (SIDE NOTE: Does anyone think that the reason a lot of cartoons are musicals is because song and dance movies are no longer being made?)
Evangelion by JetAlone	Apr 14th, 1999 07:50:13 PM
I'm a huge anime fan (some of you may be able to tell from my user ID), but I agree that there is a lot of crap out on the market, just like any other genre. There are also quite a few "classic" titles that just don't appeal to me, like Bubblegum Crisis, and I thought Ghost in the Shell was better than Akira (although I can understand why the latter was so influential). But to whoever it was who said that he's already seen "the best" that anime has to offer, I notice that he didn't list Evangelion or Vision of Escaflowne. I own the complete boxed set of Escaflowne, and almost all of Evangelion, and both are absolutely stunning; Evangelion especially is the one to beat in terms of its sheer artistry. I finally saw the concluding film, The End of Evangelion, last night, and I was flabbergasted by the sheer AUDACITY of the entire project. Both the series ending and the film ending are well-nigh incomprehensible at first glance, but if you work hard enough you begin to see what the director is trying to convey. The imagery is unforgettable, not to mention the fact that Hideaki Anno (the director) includes scenes that would never see the light of day in a film made in the US. He deals frankly with violence and sexuality, but never in a crude or gratuitous way. Not all anime is "violent porn cartoons", as they termed it in an episode of MST3K.
another thing by JetAlone	Apr 14th, 1999 07:57:37 PM
By the way, I agree with dhlstar on why animated films are musicals now. I say jettison the singing teapots and bring back the traditional live-action musical. It is so sad to me that the form is dead (Evita didn't help). Phantom of the Opera is in the planning stages, but with Antonio Banderas in the title role...:P Anyway, the only "dead" film genre I miss more than the musical is the western. Wild Wild West looks like a HUGE pile o' crap, even worse than Silverado (which I sorta liked). Someone oughta remake Ox-Bow Incident, and stick to the text. Anyhoo, sorry for the digression.
whats up with all this talk about anime? by megatron	Apr 14th, 1999 08:48:03 PM
Just because this film involves a giant robot it automatically deserves to be labled an anime rip off? I've been an anime fan for about 16 years now (and I'm only 23!!), but after reading about this film the first thing that I thought of was NOT "anime rip off". I was just excited that they might make it into a pretty good film if they don't fuck it up. A lot of people think that anime is all volence and cyber-thisandthat. Man are they wrong. Thats like if you lived in a country where the main american film imports were Matrix, Johnny Nemonic, and Friday the Thirteenth part 5, so you dismissed ALL american films as violent, or Cyber-thingamajig movies. Animation is so widespread in Japan that it is treated like just another way to make a film. Anime is not a GENRE. In fact in Japan the term anime is simply short for animation, any animation (just like manga simply means any comics, japanese or otherwise). In japan Iron Giant really will be anime, because it is animated. P.S. EVERYONE should see the best animated film of all time, "Urusei Yatsura Beautiful Dreamer" (though it does have some close competition).
anime by kadabra	Apr 14th, 1999 10:20:49 PM
I have to agree with Dlhstar in that not all anime is wonderful. I've been a fan of anime for years and I've seen quite a lot,, but the thing is there are masterpieces and then there are boring, poorly animated excuses to show cartoon nipples (Anyone seen Cutey Honey?. Now, to attempt to talk about Iron Giant and not anime, I have to say that I'm really looking forward to this. I think that it looks good from the trailer and the story seems great. Of course I have to tell all of you that I got made fun of by one my friends for liking because she thinks that a story of a boy and a robot seems stupid. I don't care though, I mean this girl's favorite movie is a tie between Congo and Mighty Ducks so what does she know. Oh yeah, now I'm just venting...sorry...
Giant eyes and convoluted plots. by Wolfpack	Jul 19th, 2006 07:54:47 PM

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