Laziness, thy name is becoming AICN.

that should just about ruin the whole thing...

And what about Aquaman? Ya gots ta have Aquaman!

You hear that, Rodriguez? Diora fucking BAIRD.

VERY different.

well....someone had to say it.

...Face it, Marvel laid out a great plan. Be very patient and produce IRON MAN, THE INCREDIBLE HULK, THOR, ANT-MAN, and CAPTAIN AMERICA first. Sink or swim, there will be fans of each movie and character. Then produce The Avengers, bringing together all the fans and the curious. Not to mention all those who never seen the theatrical release of the movies and only saw them on DVD. And with all the backgrounds are set up for both the heroes and possibly for whatever villains they choose, the will be producing one of the biggest franchise cross-overs of all time. Brilliant way to go.

JLA will be bogged down in explanation of nearly every character. Flash runs fast why? Green Lantern got his ring how? Wonder Woman is from what Greek based mythical island? The villain(s) is/are ultimately empowered by Batman?! I bet dollars to hand grenades that they pull a lazy 'overview' narration in the beginning.

Avengers will have characters ready to go for the common movie going folk, while JLA will be like Lucy to Desi...a lot of 'splaining to do!

its not the fans' vision of the jla, its WB's.. if you don't like that, become a film director, talk to wb about making a movie, and make it.

i agree a group of guys in civvies is a silly choice, but if most fans got "their" movie, it would be a fiasco. ever caught any of that weird live action 'Legends of the Superheroes' thing? appalling.

AND RESPECT THE SOURCE MATERIAL!

WB WILL LISTEN TO THIS POST!

And it somehow strikes me as easier to do. Maybe because the characters aren't weighed down with myth and the 90's angst that still sticks to Leaguers. Batman is all grim and mopey. Wonder Woman has undergone the dark Xena make over. Superman is still kind of boring, always questioning himself, but now a vegetarian. Flash is now a second rate, quip throwing Spider-Man clone. Green Lantern (any of them) tends to be fairly grim because of the trail of bodies his job has left in his wake. Aquaman…like an ugly step-child, best not seen or heard from. Martian Manhunter, no matter what anybody says, is simply no fun whatsoever. Name me ONE classic Martian Manhunter story outside of the Giffen/DeMatteis/McGuire JLA days. DC has over ‘Marvel-ized’ they’re universes main characters.

Now, the JSA on the other hand…practically a clean slate in the angst/drama department. Old fashioned Golden Age heroes who are training their sons and daughters to carry the flame of hope into the next generation. Now THAT is a good mix of old and new that would make a great film or film series. The team has several characters that moviegoers would have no preconceived notions of.

Wildcat, Liberty Belle, Hourman and Doctor Mid-Nite can readily be introduced as 1950/60’s era mystery men. No huge or flashy powers, just pure grit and two-fisted justice. They are obviously the parent figures. Hawkman, Power Girl and Mister Terrific are the middle kids. They know the ropes, but are still finding their place in a world growing more dangerous by the day. Then you have the newest recruits…the eyes of the audience…Citizen Steel and Stargirl. Steel’s tragic origin is the general introduction for the viewer. He’s uncertain of himself, and is the angsty/edgy/sarcastic anti-hero execs think we love. Stargirl is the polar opposite. Though she has seen her share of tragedy, she is optimistic, full of life, ever hopeful, always looking forward and incorruptible. A classic girl next-door that you feel like you need to protect, but she just happens to be smarter than you and can take down a charging grizzly without breaking a sweat. She is simply having a blast with this superhero thing.

Now introduce a villain that has always been a thorn in the original JSA’s side, like Vandal Savage. He’s thought to be immortal, right? How about instead of world domination, he wants world destruction. Hatching a nefarious plan that even remains unknown to his minions, he captures the Golden Age members of the JSA not to kill…but to have at his side as the world ends and he can finely, hopefully, die. They, the Golden Age JSA members, are his oldest adversaries and perhaps the only people on Earth that know him best. So if you can’t have a friend with you when you die…at least have your greatest enemies. Of course, that’s our cue for the remaining five younger members to band together, solve mysteries, overcome obstacles and wade through personal doubts about themselves and each other on their road to winning the day.

Damn…that was easy. Took me just a few minutes to come up with that simple concept. Hmmm, maybe I should look for a more creative job. That involves monkeys and typewriters…I wonder if there is a writing position on BIONIC WOMAN open… I mean, the writers of the pilot had to of been fired by now…right?

There is no reason for Warner Bros. to listen to the fans. One simple word.

TRANSFORMERS.

And no...I have no idea where that analogy came from. And, frankly, I'm scared.

Sorry but even though your other comments are fair and the fanboy sheep did agree with you, it's just one of those trekker type things where people think it needs to be all one way or another, or that things need to be 'definitive' all the time. Or that canon should dictate literal and exclusionary thinking. Han shot first though. ;)

DKR shook things up in a good way, whether you like that depiction personally or not. Should Batman or Supes be that way in every comic henceforth? Of course not. It's like confusing a singer with their song. Neither should the characters always be the 'other' way, or your (plural) preferred way. They would have died off through creative stagnation long ago if that was the case.

It's a GOOD thing to look at Superman as the infallible prototypical superhero, AND also explore the failings of idealism (also as it pertains to serving a country/government) - and who better to use than Superman for that? It's great to explore Superman being an Alien. It's just an extension of the outsider metaphor (and a pretty literal exploration of that as it pertains to the American immigrant thing). It's also wonderful to say he's human at heart. The nature vs. nurture thing - why set ONE side in stone and not argue the other, certainly if you're a creator, but also as a reader? Being such a proto figure means he's ripe for ALL that.

Kal, I know I always seem to come off as arrogant because I'm not articulate enough (though good God an italics function's not too much to ask for), and I'm not trying to just slag you off - and the subject's more to the others not really thinking it through. And even for all the other guys, please settle down with the infantile myopia! Doesn't everyone realise that if these things we love were actually done in such a petty way it'd all fall in a heap? Well, except for the old tried and true comics/magazine rationale that you can recycle the same old crap every three years or so 'cause there's a new batch of 'cattle'/readership. Anyway, making different facets and challenging the idea of what a character really is (without just taking the elseworlds path), is a great thing FOR the 'icons' themselves. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but it needs to be done. Same for the movie depictions. Batman 89 wasn't a well written movie (there was a writer's strike on during production so it wasn't going to improve either), but both it and Begins (ironic that we're talking about Miller's year one in that case) are equally justifiable. 89 for the operatic gothic BAT man where you can easily buy a distorted figure in that twisted distopia (Anton Furst's "hell erupting through the sidewalks"), and also Begins with the more dectective, thinking Neal Adams type batMAN. It's all good.

Geodesigns' "give the fans what they want" is a good example too. Needlessly covering all fans with the same blanket statement. And Geo, every time one of these TBs come up I say this now - I love Ross too (I'd argue though he tends to favour Supes being in his 50s which is great as he lends himself to being the elder statesman (pun!) figuratively speaking), and from what they said on Returns they were going for that, and Ross' artwork was everywhere in the art dept and even literally incorporated into some of the film's concept art - but's that's not what we got, is it?! And why do you mention all the golden and silver age, but basically advocate not looking at that - just through the lens of Dini and Ross? Ca-razy! That's the BEST way to end up generations away from your ideal! Like they tell animators - don't just studdy animation, study REAL LIFE - that's what the earlier animators did. DO you see my 'generation breakdown' thing? I'm sure "the fanbase" covers more than just your philosophy (as in "more things in heaven and earth"). Why do you speak for everyone? You do see that you're ensuring fans will be disappointed don't you?

"One shot" eh? You do realise we're talking film and the land of the remake?!

I'd bring the whole G.I. Joe/Transformers "true fan" farce up, but this post is longwinded enough already! Thanks for listening guys, the few here that do. Hopefully I won't get kneejerk reactions on this. Basically I'm saying hope for the best, and don't let fearing the worst turn you into the three monkeys.

And Miller can work his arse off, but as they start shooting in Feb, good luck expecting brilliance! And you know all those DC types eh? But not an equal amount who, like Marvel, see their company as an excuse to milk I.P.?! Every heartless marketing type in the WORLD tells you it's ALL because they love the character! There's a big hole in your theory about movies being for the fans and not overwhelmingly for "everybody else". Girls (they go to movies too y'know, and many don't have rabid comic fan boyfriends dragging them there). Exactly what percentage of tickets do you think were sold to anyone who actually set foot in a comic shop? And what about outside America?

Now I really must do some work.

batman: bales stunt double or anyone who can do a bale inpersonation. keep the cowl on at all times and it really shouldn't matter.

wonder woman; biel works for me, any slightly tall, brunette chick with a nice rack will actually do fine in this role imo.

j'onn j'ozz: figure he will be CGI if the whole movie isn't all ready. either way get larry fishburne to do the vice or paint him green.

GL (jon stewart): micheal early from barbershop and sleeper cell. best and only choice imo.

flash: i guess ryan renolds would work if it's wally. i know people hate him but i think seann willian scott would work in the role as well. in any JLA movie without plastic man, the flash would have to be the comic relief anyway. or maybe hayden christensen as wally. god knows he could use the work. :)

I don't particularly want flashy visuals, but I don't want a rehash of the Donner films or a Lois Lane so irritating I want to gouge my eyes out, or a loser stalker superman, or a superbrat, or a stupid real estate scam, or a kryptonite continent BEING PICKED UP, or a boring bloody film. SR either had or was all of the above.

SCENE ONE - Oa, Green Lantern Homeworld. The Guardians of the Universe know "a grave danger comes to Earth" but can't spare the troops. However, they dispatch Abin Sur to appoint a worthy human GL.

CUT TO: Hal Jordan - he starts getting weird dreams and the like about the ring and the Guardians of the Universe. It's the start of plot thread for him to sort out his life and become a worthy Green Lantern.

CUT TO: Dr Erdel's observatory, Gotham City - he's observing strange occurences on the planet Mars. He uses a new invention for the first time, something unseen unexpectedly is teleported in by it. We just see a shadow, while he has a heart attack.

CUT BACK TO: Abin Sur - directly from the books, he crashlands on Earth and dies, but not before passing the ring on to...Lex Luthor? He's also got wind of the invasion and is looking to take over in the aftermath.

Meanwhile, Superman and Batman fight crime in Metropolis. They've just started to work together - it's still early days for the superheroes. They're still a little apprehensive of each other. All of this is undone when, back in the Batcave, Batman is attacked by Superman (actually a White Martian), who he manages to get away from/temporarily defeat (Kryptonite or something).

The heroes get wind of what's happening - in Themiscarya Princess Diana is appointed by Hippolyta to defend the realm of man, King Arthur of Atlantis and Flash do likewise - Flash is the other already established hero, he needs no introduction, he's just a guy who can run fast. He's the average guy character. The League starts to form, but the White Martians are already turning public opinion against them, and Luthor's Injustice League (Luthor with power suit and Green Lantern ring, Joker, some other more minor, Earth-bound villains) are wreaking havoc. Batman doesn't want to play a part, suspicious of all ultra-powerful heroes after his run-in with the Superman doppelganger. Big moment towards the end when he joins with the League to defend Earth. Main plotlines are search to find the "good Martian" (J'onn J'onnz, who is posing as a Gotham City detective and working with Batman to unravel the mystery) and the true Lantern, Hal Jordan, solve the mystery of the evil duplicate heroes and defeat Luthor and the other villains. The League discover way to defeat White Martians towards the end, but they're actually one organism (like Marvel's Impossible Man), they form into one being - Starro the Conqueror-esque! NEW FRONTIER-inspired conclusion, Hal and Martian Manhunter finally come into their own, Martians and Injustice League defeated, JLA formed. Chris Rock as Batman.

Feel free to diss his mum and her arsehole though. He's not so offended by that.

I hate that film- it was the worst movie I have seen in absolutely ages, but it hasn't got to me in the same way as Kal El Vis, although I do find it astounding when people claim to like it,

The reason I focus on superbrat is that by including him Singer shows that he doesn't udnerstand the character of Superman and by stating that he is interested to develop Superspawn kind of makes me think he doesn't care about the character of Superman.

Bear in mind that Superman is the eponymous hero of the films- and this is why his version sucked and any sequel will also most likely be sub-par

Shields & Swords word have been farcical (this is true)- but part of the reason is that if he was tooled up like that he would have had to fight someone- and this was clearly not on the agenda.

"I can see there being something along the lines of how Kal El was taught by Jor El when he was a lot older, fine he was aware of his powers but they werent fully fleshed out untill he went to the Fortress, would it be so bad for him to take a step back for next 10 or 12 years then lead him to the fortress to be taught?"- that is a fucking horrendous idea, and unfortunately you are right- it looks like Singer will go that way and continue to use Superman as some god awful therapy substitute.