Shithead.

However, the positives just keep rolling in, the 'haters' keep crying plant; it's all good!

Now, where were we?! :-)

One of the criticisms seems to be 'too intense!' LOL!

There ar about 1 hour and 15 minutes completely unaccounted for.

I despise plants on an equal opportunity basis.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHH! I fucking LOVE these TB's!

There have been literally THOUSANDS of shite reviews of this film, and they're ALL being witheld - from YOU in particular - by the same people that flew a remote-control plane into the Pentagon. They are also Jewish Freemasons.

I read that as:

"If somebody who reviews for this site say they like it, I'm gonna stamp my feet and go home - and I'm taking my football with me.."

I still think an oppotunity was lost in this film-- you can make a great action flick that is not offensive to an audience's higher brain functions, but this better be one seriously fun motherfucking movie for me to get over that fact.

;-)

Then *I* go and see it and enjoy it about as much as any (straight) man would enjoy being anally fist-fucked by Hulk Hogan!

Yeah, you knew where I was going with that!

What!?! Do you think I would pay money to see it? Are you taking crazy pills? Have you been hovering up Bolivian marching dust again?

I've been through this before when people were bragging on about how great ID4, Armageddon, Hostel, and those Mummy films were. No way, sucker, I'm not falling for it this time. I won't be handing over $10 to fund some guy's coke habit, until I can vouch for the film myself, especially one that's a Bay film.

And for anyone who wants to lecture me on film piracy, I say fuck Hollywood for producing such dross. Don't let it make money from lazy storytelling. Fuck Hollywood when it thinks it can fuck the audience over. Fuck Hollywood in the ass until the man-milk spills out of its mouth.

Eventually Hollywood will learn that if it wants to make a profit from this entertainment racket, it'll have to abandon the fallacy that CGI, and choppy editing can alone save a film, and consider another neglected element called story.

On another note my niece wanted to see FF2 last night so I took her. Turns out it's not terrible. It's not great and the fact that there is no physical Galactus on screen kinda irritated me, but I liked it none the less. Dialog is campy, but for me I've always felt that the FF were a bit campy. About the only real complaint I have for this movie is that it was too short. It could have run about fifteen minutes longer and actually showed Galactus and then this film would have been much better.

Oh and when I say Galactus I mean the guy in the purple costume. I read some of the reviews on this site and the ones that bashed the film really latch onto the smallest things wrong with performance or delivery. Really my only complaint of this film, other than the lack of Galactus, was that I wanted more. Just a little more story or fight or something.

Just... a little... more.

Oh and as of this moment Yackbacker speaks for me. Though I think I'll be using my money for Die Hard instead of Nancy Drew.

Fuck, I'm sorry but I found that quite funny.

I'll get back in my pot now...

One of the criticisms is even that Bay spends a bit too long building up tension. If that's true, then it can't be ALL bad...

I don't think it could be a plant - NOBODY on this site would be stupid enough to think that was a genuine review, and I'd like to think the studios know this.

If this guy is SERIOUS, then he has serious sexual hang-ips and mental problems - or - he's just trying to 'ape' Harry's style.

You make that list.

I think you'll find they DO!

One of the reviews makes significant mention of the robots as characters generating emotion in the viewer.

There you go.

That said - I like to think you'd know I'd tell you the truth when it came down to it, and to admit that I'm wrong.

I don't remember saying I wanted all that in the Transformers movie.

I do think that Transformers could have been much closer to the source material.

As for FF2, well I expected campy so I wanted campy. Plus I think it would have been better if the giant campy purple man had shown up.

That IS fun!

As it stands the movie was fun but lacked that one thing to make it better. Plus, as I said I've always felt that FF is campy at it's core so it's what I expect to see. The story is pretty good and campy. Way better than the frist one, but missing that one thing that makes it all just a little better.

Transformers on the other hand is about a war between two factions that spills out onto the earth. At least it could have been, instead it's two rival teams led by feuding brothers hunting down a cube to make electronics come to life. It didn't need to be all serious, but it could have stayed much more true to the source.

It's not that it sucks because it's not serious, but more that the story could have been better.

I was wholeheartedly against me seeing this film for a long time. Mainly b/c Michael Bay movies give me a headache. But then I heard Peter Cullen interviewed on that comic book podcast and he was SO nice that I wanted to see the movie just to give him some money and love. Then I read these reviews, see the hubris of both sides of the TF camp posting in the TBs, and am glad I'll be out of town when it opens. Chances are, I'll never see it. When I get back home from the wild woods of "up nort", it'll be Harry Potter time.

You know, as lame of a hope as this is, all I really wanted out of this film was Cullen, Welker, and the dynamic between Starscream and Megatron to be intact. As far as I'm concerned, getting one out of three ain't all that good. (And no, one throwaway line from Megatron does not count as "the dynamic".)

Yum yum- straight from Dreamworks/Paramount/GM/Hasbro marketing- served up in a daisy cup.

Guaranteed to satisfy even the lowest of expectations-now with more cliche's and a 1/3 less robot film time.

Because if to fat 15yr old kids were jumping up and down slapping their fat manboobs together over this film, I just can't be convinced that it's any good.

TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO!

The people who see this lowest common denominator schlockfest for what it is spoke a LONG TIME AGO, and though we continue to make th epoint when brought up, are not the ones shouting the loudest about Bay's film anymore. That's the folks who are repeatedly mistaking "mindless" entertainment as "good filmmaking".

Sometimes I miss the classic Zucker Bros. movies...

Ironically, once I've saved up enough blood money from JLo so that I can retire, I plan to become a benefactor of PETA.

Cheers

No one has ever said others wouldn't love the film, either.

It's a matter of whether or not it's 1) a good movie (the script suggests otherwise), and 2) a good Transformers movie. It can be the former without being the latter.

By the way, Michael Bay is not the greatest action director of all time, it's Kurosawa. Contemporary? well it'd be James Cameron (this is fact by the way people, so don't srugue).

But if they're going to make a Transformers movie I don't see any reason why they couldn't take the basic concepts and try to handle them more intelligently than the show did. Before Michael Bay was involved they said it was "one of the producers of X-Men" so I got my hopes up. I never liked X-Men either but they found a way to make a movie that appealed to non X-Men fans like me while also staying true to many of the core concepts and characters that the fans are obsessed with. That's what I was hoping for. I wish they had taken what works (warring alien robots crashland on earth, mistake vehicles for the native species and disguise themselves), ditched what might not translate (Megatron turns into a handgun, Soundwave shrinks into a radio) and tried to improve on the cartoon. And of course have some of the designs at least superficially resemble the old ones so that you can have a nostalgia factor. The issue for me is not that they didn't do a literal translation, it's that they seemed to have jettisoned everything because it was dumb and then replaced it with different things that are equally dumb.

And more importantly to me, the Transformers I remember liking as a kid was about robots. There were a couple of human characters, they wore construction helmets and nobody liked them. I would think that in the era where fantasy epics and pirates are the biggest blockbusters it would be considered okay to have a fantasy about robots, but I guess not. It has to be about hollow human characters who run away from robots.

Oh well. I'm certainly not devastated, but it seems like a missed opportunity to me.

p.s. And the idea that every robot has to have a mouth in order to convey emotion is an insult to the animators working on the movie. If they can't convey emotion through posture and movement, which is an animator's job, why not find better animators?

Are you and Yack (and others?) still planning on getting bombed and seeing TINO?

sorry but cynicism is a requirement around these parts.

Michael Bay may be good at making things explode, but he really is not a good storyteller, or great at creating memorable characters (in a good way, anyway).

It was actually Ricky's compelling vision of theater chaos that so moved me to really wanting to be wherever I needed to be to see that. Seriously, I picture that scene from Airplane! with jello and boobs shaking and people assuming "crash positions".

Somethign else I'd also expect to see in a theater showing Michael PH Bay presents: Transformers is the old lady who sits next to Ted Striker and barfs herself into a skeleton from Airplane! 2

I think that's enough Zucker referencing for now.

I wonder if he, like Krack and others, got banned and since been re-handled. I should take a look back over this TB and see who's been extra-loving to the film. It could be him. Or perhaps he's already camped out in line for theater seating somewhere??

What's so bad about the original STAR WARS script? "Could someone get this walking carpet out of my way?" I think that's good-natured goofy banter. The TF script doesn't accomplish that-- at least on paper. Trust me, AllSeeingEye, if you read it, you'd se where these two scripts don't compare.

Of course, there's always the standby TINO! shirt.

http://tinyurl.com/362bou

But I'm not telling others not to see it. I'm not saying people who "like" the film, or think they will like it, are wrong. Just voicing why I don't feel excited for it the way I would have liked to feel.

but I honestly can't imagine Mori would post that in any seriousness...I think he's just messing with us...

Know what I mean?

Superninja, your epicurean tastes for pop culture shine through once again.

And Toht, you made an excellent point up there.

Not sure I like the sound of that retconning.

LOL, I love that "take back one kadam" line, too.

Die Hard 1 ranks up there as well. Another classic. "No fucking shit, lady. Do I sound like I'm ordering a pizza?" "You ask for a miracle. I give you the F B I."

See you in line...

Oh wait, I’m British – you dumb Bush loving mutha-fukers!

(and no, that's not an attack against all British)

"Sometimes you wish you spoke Hovitos" - it should be on an Indy Anniversary one-sheet poster.

You are still a fucking retard with lame ass jokes.

Idiot.

Pssst, here's a hint ... most Americans are not happy with the sellout President Bush, dumbass.

Fear not my dear friend, we think Bush is a wanker too...

O SAY, CAN YOU SEEEEE, BY THE DAWNS EARLY LIIIGGGHHHT.....

http://tinyurl.com/2e7xjw

No wonder Bay needed a team of editors, who succeed in making the fight sequences exciting spectacles, though toward the end they all tend to become just a mess of flying wreckage and random explosions -- the outcome is always predictable, if the movements themselves remain unexpected. Sound is cranked up to mega-decibels; if the action doesn't generate stomach tremors, the bass lines will. Overly grand music used halfway through, during Bumblebee's subjugation scene, seems to confuse it with the pic's climax.

This really has been crazy, hasn't it? All these diatribes over a children's movie? I'm more than guilty myself, but wow if this film hasn't sparked quite a few heated discussions.

I began visiting this site long after the SW prequels had come and gone. Was it just as crazy or moreso?

And yes, this TRANSFORMERS business is bordering on insanity. I can't really recall when I've seen something so divisive on AICN.

It reminds me of...when I won't mention him. Heh.

I have to say though that nostalgia can be the deathknell for many an endeavor. And I find it strange what people appear to have taken from the G1 show. It's not always the same thing(s).

That being said, if sequels are made, I too feel that the bots should come more to the forefront. And I do think that would be a given after the first installment/introductory chapter.

The key factors being that the robots will have already been introduced, we'll have seen the human viewpoint of their arrival, we'll know the setting, and most importantly...

...this is CRUCIAL...

the sequel budget will be HUGE. Bots 24/7, baby!

This leads to the inital attack by Blackout, now this had me pleasantly surprised, however, it lasts a scant three pages and is pretty much everything you've seen on tv, a little bit with Frenzy but that's about it for what you haven't seen yet. This also gets us our first glimpse of the Sector Seven business, which is just a brief bit on a screen nothing major. I get what they're trying to do, the whole secret government agency thing, got it, it was good for a few seasons of the X-Files but other than that it's just kind of hokey, I mean it certainly didn't help Alone in the Dark when they used the same plot device hell I believe Uwe's was Section 713 maybe they know each other. You get a couple of glimpses of a robot other than Frenzy but not much you also get a little of Skorponok eyeing his prey a little, but not much.

After this we get into Sam's story. I don't know where to begin on how completely bad this whole arc is, I mean the sector seven crap is pretty bad but this is just sloppy and plagaristic of a dozen other films. His whole introduction consists of him in class staring longingly at Mikela who is seated next to her current boy friend, cue stereotypical muscle headed football jock, yup that's the direction they went with it. Oh it gets better, he's snapped out of it to make a presentation about his great-great-grandfather, and during this the jock gives him shit, which gives the writers the opportunity to throw in the hot chick defending the dork against the jock boyfriend routine. It's at this point I want to huck the thing across the sales floor, but I soldier on. Sam gives his presentation and surprise surprise is held after to have a talk with the teacher about his lackluster presentation that leads to him begging the teacher to give him an A cause that's the only way he's going to get his car. I mean really this is what they came up with? I mean really now, they couldn't have come up with something a little different from every other teen movie ever made.

So this gets us into the car lot scene, which really makes me think they wrote this after they cast the damn thing because Bobby Bolivia reads like Bernie Mack, the manerisms the dialouge everything sounds like it was tailor written for Mack, it's generally a forgettable scene, it's really there just to explain how Sam get's Bumblebee. There's a moment where Bolivia is trying to get them to pay five grand for a beat up Camero, they say four, he says no way and get out of the car, then Bumblebee tags one of the other cars with his own door, then when Bolivia persists sends out a soundwave that blows out all the windows and headlights of the other vehicles. I wouldn't have had a problem with the scene except for the fact that through the bulk of it Sam bags on the car untill right about the time he's told he can't have it, that and when the sonic boom goes off Sam and his dad start to take off frightened by what happens but when Boliva tells em four grand is ok they stick around and buy the car. What the hell was the point of having them freaked out at all if their fear is going to be quickly swayed by the offer of a good deal on a car he really didn't want or like in the first place. By this point we are 50 pages into the book with only 3 pages of robots.

After this little bit we jump right back to Sam, who's plotting and schemeing how to improve his ride to get girls. If you didn't get the point that he's an awkward dork with awkward dork friends, this scene will solidify it for you, it will at an amazingly great length, this goes through the adventure of him taking the car out and about, and to get crickets at Petco. This gets him into a run in with the jock and Mikela, which is just dumb, derivitive, and just more of the same from every teen movie ever made. This winds up leading to the scene with Mikela working her way over Bumblebee's engine, it's also the first bit of Bumblebee helping via the radio. This whole passage is just stupid, there are no other words for it, just stupid and pointless and adds nothing to the story what so ever. By this point we are 86 pages into the book, where's all this robot action, I'm over a third of the way through and there's been one three page bit with a robot so far. Giant Fucking Robots indeed.

Beautiful.

After that whole section of literary diareah we get to Skorponok's attack, finally some action too bad in a book of 300 pages it takes up twelve, and most of it is focused on the people. So once again I say, Giant Fucking Robots? Where all I see are people. Now while from what I've seen of Skorponok ILM's work looks great but is this the extent of what we're going to see, a robot jumps out and then we spend the rest of the scene focused on the soldiers and not the "Giant Fucking Robot"?

This whole section ends with Sam sitting on his bed sad that his car is gone, untill he decides to visit his buddy and that his only means of transportation is a pink bike his mom owns. Never mind that the dialouge is all about how he bought Satan's Camero and how it's trying to steal his soul, he decides to ride his mom's pink bike. Now this was a guy who was so self concious he was going to turn down his car cause it looked shoddy, and you expect me to believe he's going to be seen in public on a pink bike, riiiiiiight. At this point we're now 130 pages into the book and have had a total of about 18 pages of robots, hmmm, something not adding up here I'd say.

We jump right back in with the hackers this time she's getting her buddy in on the act, why, do we care, probably not, it's filler time.

We then jump back to Sam on his Mom's pink bike, he notices Bumblebee is trailing him and takes off trying to elude his car, this causes him to wreck in front of Mikela, she does the whole are you alright deal, he says he's losing his mind and is off again. She gives chace on her Vespa, which how this kid can pedal faster than motor vehicles is beyond me, but this shit is obviously written by stoned apes so I digress. He winds up under an overpass and we finally get to some TF on TF action. That's right the much Ballyhoooed Bumblebee/Baracade fight. So at page 143 we get to our first real transformation. So if the film is two and a half hours, you have an hour and 15 till you really get your first full transformation. But once again the bulk of the action is spent concentrating on the people, not the "Giant Fucking Robots" once again, this also is where we get the Sam kicking Frenzy's head like he's a star fucking athlete scene as well. This whole fight lasts seven pages and ends with Sam and Mikela deciphering Bumblebee's radio speak as to what's going on, and them getting him a new body.

We then jump back to the hackers, do we care, not really, we are here for "GIANT FUCKING ROBOTS!" right, not story, not that any of this plot is any good anyway.

So anyone else noticing someone missing from the story so far, why that would be Optimus Prime, he's missing in action because he doesn't show up till page 163! Over half way through the fucking book and that's when Prime first shows up. So we're good and past the hour and a half mark and we finally see prime, all I have to say is what the fuck! And he's basically introduced to us along with the rest of the autobot gang, in a bad montage of everyone landing in varying areas and finding their car form and meeting up with Sam, Mikela, Bumblebee and Optimus. It's at this point Optimus reveals the actual plot, or what the plot of the movie should have been from point A. the Decepticons want to take over the earth, we didn't need all the other bullshit about Sam's love life, or hackers or government agencies, just Decepticons want to fuck up your shit and the Autobots want to save it and live peacefully with you. But oh no that wasn't good enough we need to follow humans around a movie called "TRANSFORMERS" for 90% of the fucking film. Great job hacks. Oh but it doesn't stop there we get the painfully hiding 50 foot robots in your back yard scene, we get Sector Seven taking Sam, his parents and Mikela into custody as well as Bumblebee, we get them being rescued from Sector Seven from the autobots so we can revel in lines like "Oh Wow, you A-holes are in Tu-ruh-bull." are you fucking kidding me!? By the way we are now 207 pages into the book. With less than about an hour left in movie time.

IK - see you in line - fucker!

So now everyone is at the base, including the army guys, the hackers and sam, mikela and sam's family, what the fuck kind of mickey mouse bullshit is this, everyone winds up at the same fucking place. Next thing I know Michael Bay will be talking about how the underlying tone of the film is Syncronicity, fucking bullshit right there. It's not untill page 225 that we finally see Starscream in jet form just briefly so we can go back to Sector Seven and find out that this is where Megatron is and also the Alspark. This is where the scene with someone bringing their PDA to life and it going crazy pops in, but most importantly it brings Megs back to life with his first words "Insects". But this doesn't happen till page 241 so the film has maybe fourty minutes left.

Pretty soon all hell breaks loose as the other robots arrive and shit takes off from there, but once again the majority of the action is background to whatever the human characters are doing.

The big end battle, ah yes, the one all the apologists love to bring out whenever they argue with a "hater", it takes up 36 pages, however, lets disect this a little shall we. 36 pages minues 8 pages to deal with what the hackers are doing, wait make that seven and a half cause there's about a paragraph where they deal with frenzy, and you get 26 and a half pages. Megatron and Prime battle for a few pages, Jazz is killed rather unceremoniously, not that we gave a shit anyway, and Sam winds up taking out Megatron with the Alspark. So there's your big battle it takes up 26 pages of a 291 page book, that's less than ten percent of the book.

The whole thing ends with everyone pretty much living happily ever after, Mikela dumps the jock for Sam, Optimus declares that Cybertron is dead without the Alspark and they have to live on earth and sends a message out to the other robots that Earth is their new home, we also get the President telling everyone that this should all be covered up, really, so no one else but the few people directly involved happened to see the "Giant Fucking Robots!" attacking shit, oh wait, I guess they wouldn't cause they're barely in the fucking story! So that's the end of the review and I will summarize in the next post.

You know, I'm a movie fan like you (otherwise you wouldn't be here) and I'd like everybody to be happy and when they're not, it makes me sad... I care about you, dude... Not in a 'dick up your arse hole' kind of way but as a fellow geek.

That's just weired.

Or will I see you in line too?

Seriously now...

Here's a serious question for you, dude. Which of the summer blockbusters already released do you think will do the best business?

Cunt.

It will be along time before anyone tops that one, buddy.

You Cunt.

You spend way too much time here not too.

Are you and BringingSexyBack (or whatever the fuck his name is) planning on hanging anybody in the dirty-dirty south today? Eh?

Anyway, it seemed to confirm it's an okay bit of fun with some really good effects, which is about as much as you can hope for. Mind you, it's getting depressing to see that even professional reviewers seem to be drastically lowering their standards when it comes to the summer blockbuster stuff. They pay only a cursory amount of attention to the story aspects, as though we shouldn't even expect a decent story from this type of film. Who knows, though - maybe they're right?

Scientist: "God damn it, this won't do! Get me Donny Osmond's orthodontist!"

Scientist: "God damn it, this won't do! Get me Donny Osmond's orthodontist!"

And yes, the draft script is the one they shot, with a few minor changes, although that's not what the filmmakers were claiming - was is now?

Based on the story and characters this movie fails as both a movie and as a TF movie. Unless you are just showing up for the special effects.

I won't apologize for the sarcasm, but this film is looseness personified. So much potential lost/wasted. And people will line up several times to validate shoddy, mediocre filmmaking. Just like GR, FF, FF2, so on and so forth. Now the common statement is "it's a setup for some great sequels"? Way to go film lovers.

Times change, sometimes not for the better. I personally feel American filmmaking is on a decline and has been for quite sometime. I personally see far better stuff coming out of foreign markets (UK, South Korea, Japan). That's not to say a great American made film doesn't slip through, I just see more tripe than gold.

But I'm a pretentious/elitist/snob/killj oy, right guys? Glass half empty? My opinion is invalid since I don't belong to the lowest common denomiator. How dare I love film and all that it is capable of.

Times change - not always for the better. I personally feel American filmmaking is on a decline and has been for quite sometime. I personally see far better stuff coming out of foreign markets (UK, South Korea, Japan). That's not to say a great American made film doesn't slip through, I just see more tripe than gold.

But I'm a pretentious/elitist/snob/killj oy, right guys? Glass half empty? My opinion is invalid since I don't belong to the lowest common denomiator. How dare I love film and all that it is capable of.

Take care.

Look, there must be some movies that you like, love or even cherish that were less than ... well, you know... less than!

You're a movie geek... you must have one guilty pleasure? Something that didnt quite make the grade when it comes to substance.

Surely one!

All I'm saying is TF could be that guilty pleasure for many on this site... even you my dear American cousin... Even you!

Every review of this film, including the position of the producers, up to and including the director, has been that of a modern pharmaceutical commercial. "Transformers does not contain good plotting, good characterization, good designing, good acting, or even a good script. If this film is for you, please contact Don Murphy at www.stooge.com, or check your local AICN reviews board."

As far as guilty pleasures go, well I've listed many in previous TBs. I just listed anime (Godannar in particular - totally a guilty pleasure) which seems to get unfairly judged. Yes there is a lot of crap i.e. the shit they show on television for children, but there is a lot of adult oriented content out there too. Not just hentai and/or eichi either - you know what I mean. My guilty pleasures usually consist of Cary Grant or Humphrey Bogart films. I like Miike films too. Do those count? Or am I missing the point of a guilty pleasure film?

Bay: "I love my transformers and it has revitalized my career. It could work for you!"

Okay, I'm done admitting to guilty pleasures.

My guilty pleasures? The star wars prequel trilogy, Independence Day, Dune, odd numbered-star trek films, and 2010: Oddesy two.

The movie is in the can and it's a done deal. The fact that sequels have the potential to be better is not a great consolation prize, so to speak. They could have started out with a bang story wise and effects wise. Not just effects. To each his own in the end.

As for Star Trek, I thought the seventh and tenth installments were great. Lots of smack talk about those two. I just like them. Oh, and Deep Space Nine is my favorite ST series. Bar none. There, I've shared enough guilty shit. I keep trying to stop, but I can't.

But anyhoo, Superninja not letting anyone get to me or bother me, just had to pass out after workign a 12 hour shift. I just don't get the logic of the apologists, you show them that they aren't even getting what they're claiming they're being sold and they still "but Giant Fucking Robots!" I mean literally about 50 pages in a 300 page book if you translate that into screen time that's only like 40 minutes of a two and a half hour movie and that includes the big battle at the end. And even the big battle is mostly concentrated on the humans while the robots are mainly in the background fighting.

And as for the guy who says there's a transformer in almost every scene, I don't count Bumblebee as the kids car with no action and concentrating on Sam the whole time as having a Transformer in the scene. Nor do I count scenes like checking back on the guys in Iraq and just knowing that Skorponok is around there somewheres. If they aint on screen, if they aren't the focus of the scene they aren't there in my book.

The Alien 3 Director's Cut was wonderful. Really good stuff in there.

http://tinyurl.com/25b8c4

Yes, the "Hey, you got a perfect day.." line was a bit cheesy, but none of it honestly bothered me.

Typical summer spectacle fare - no less or more than I was expecting from this film.

Well done to MicturatingBenjamin for saying in a few posts what I've been trying to say across about 3 TB's!

"Define quality. Superb acting? Brilliant cinematography? Set design? Script? I like Revenge of the Nerds. It was funny, and because it's so dated, it keeps getting funnier every single time I see it. I think that the Godfather was awesome, because the acting in it was great. It was a little doughy, but still an awesome movie. However, it's less an aperitif than a full course meal with all the trimmings. Which, my compadre, is why Thanksgiving is only once a year. I could sit down and watch 300 again this afternoon or Ghost Rider, or even Grindhouse (half of it anyway) and be cool with that, its like a sandwich and some Doritos...delicious, delicious Nacho Cheese Doritos.... But I would want to set aside time to appreciate a flick like Godfather or Usual Suspects or hell, even Casablanca.."

Nice one - I have a pint of Aqua Vitae for you next time you're on!

So it was a Bay and 'Beard' joint effort by the sounds of it.

Can't wait to see this film!

Fair enough - you might be hungry again soon after the snack, but the point is that it tasted damn good while you were eating it.

Bay has prepared us a nice, tasty enjoyable summer snack which should satisfy our hunger for a little while.

It's the difference between a summer BBQ and a big, fat Christmas Dinner. Both enjoyable in their own way.

By the way - my brain cells are ALL in working order, thanks!

Oh well you fucking would wouldn't you?! So you NEVER EVER sit down in a cinema/in front of the telly and watch something trashy, but fun? Schindler's List or Ghandi every time for you is it?

"The best two recent examples i can give is Casino Royale and Batman Begins."

Brilliant... you seriously believe that these two films - as good as they are - are going to still be talked about in 10 years time as cinema classics? I would fucking hope not; that said - neither will this one; won't stop it being fun though.

Superninja; maybe that script is terrible to you, but I find it harmless and it looks like the film they've made from it will provide me with an interesting diversion and a few cheap thrills. Where's the harm? And where's the precedent that it was ever going to do any more?

Superninja, believe me, I say this with an element of tongue-in-cheek, but that makes it no less true; I didn't notice any racial stereotyping in Bay's TF's script, but once again I DID notice some in the original TF's cartoon - which you seem willing to overlook... PINK female robots? Now WHY would a female HAVE to be PINK?! That's SOOOO sexually stereotyped!

Righhhht... I tell you what; I give up. Yeah, Transformers will be a shit film with no entertainment value whatsoever. When I watch it, I'll take a knife in with me, and if I start feeling even the SLIGHTEST bit entertained, I'll stab myself in the leg. Just to make sure I get ABSOLUTELY NO enjoyment from the experience.

"Actually, Batman Begins is indeed in a serious position to became a classic. It already is a modern classic, and many people speak at awe of it."

Oh bollocks! Can the am-dram for fuck's sake - BB was a fucking good film; but by no means a classic outside geek circles. I know plenty of people now who REALLY enjoyed it, but a year or so on would have forgotten all about it. A classic is something instantly recognisable and iconic by most people right across the spectrum. If you say 'I AM your father' in a deep voice to nearly ANYONE you know, they'll know the reference; same as "Yipee-Kay-Ay, Motherfucker!", or "My preciousssss" or someone rolling under a closing door, just making it and rolling back for their hat.

These scenes and phrases are all part of the cuurency of pop culture and are widely recognised. What the fuck is iconic or classic about Goldeneye?!Or Batman Begins? BATMAN is classic and iconic - BB is not. Try whistling the BB theme, followed by the 60's TV theme and see which is recognised...

"Which seems a concept you have a hard time understanding,t hat FUN and QUALITY co-exists. In fac,t they are sinimimous. "

Bollocks. Schindler's List is a quality film, but pretty fucking far from fun. I found Mortal Kombat to be a fun film, but that's pretty fucking far from quality. So to say fun and quality are synonymous is horse-shite.

TF's looks so far - to me - to be fun, entertaining fare. As for quality? Dunno, I'll make that judgement when I've seen it. But at the moment it doesn't LOOK sub-standard.

Seriously though - I didn't notice any racial stereotyping. The only stereotype I really noticed (more cliche actually) was the married soldier's 'perfect day' remark. That's been done BIG TIME - in one way or another - in just about ANY film featuring soldiers away from home.

What's so bad about the President being in the film?! If something like this went down in the UK, I'd like to think the PM would at least be notified!

I wanted to see robots switch sides based on their being stranded on Earth changing the rules of the conflict and being torn between their hatred of each other and wanting to get home. Both sides plotting against each other and devising military strategies to get the upper hand or frustrate the other. A war movie.

Frenzy just comes across as silly in the script, I'm sure he will onscreen as well. Orginally that was going to be Soundwave, they just changed the name after the fans complained.

I seriously do not believe you when you say you missed the race stereotypes. Not that they are not found in almost every Bay film, but they're glaringly obvious. Particularly hispanic and black.

So the filmmakers have to set not only the backstory of the robots, but also the catalyst for the film (search for mcguffin), introduce the principle human players and flesh(!) them out too, plus squeeze in as much action as they logically could, and then wrap it up in a conclusion (leaving the door open for a sequel).

Let me put it this way; I reckon this film is just the set-up; Megatron will be back, and the sequel will be balls-to-the-wall war.

Look at LOTR - first film: action-lite; second: increase in action, leads to Helm's Deep; third film: story all set up, LOADS of action.

BTW - did Autobots & Decepticons switch sides in the cartoon?

I understand what the filmmakers had to accomplish, I still think the thrust of the story is poor and totally meaningless. There was no need to introduce all of those human characters, most of who are never developed anyway.

As for a sequel, who cares? More robots punching each other, I think this movie covers that.

Uh, but what about the story?

More human characters, this time we got John Malkovitch to sell his soul to play Dr. Arkeville.

You see, I genuinely could not get excited by things like their being an engine under BumbleBee's bonnet, and nor will it ruin the film for me. Same as flames on Optimus. It's ALL ludicrous anyway if you over-analyse it; the Bay film, the cartoon, the comics - all of it. But as long as I'm entertained I can forgive most things.

Well, considering the film is set on Earth, there would have to be at LEAST one or two! ;-)

But seriously, this couldn't happen on Earth without any human involvement could it?

All the filmmakers are doing is showing the story from a human perspective, and how humans are effected by it.

Imagine if Speilberg had decided to include elements of the story from one of the background soldiers, as well as following the reporter we see at the crashed plane... that's all I see this as.

It's important to include a human element, I think.

I meant War of the Worlds...

More and more you seem like someone who wants an entire season (or two) of cartoons stuffed into one 2-hour movie. It's not exactly a fair expectation nor is it conducive to the human perspective element of the film.

'Crap', is just an opinion. But generally speaking, you can't polish a turd.

Soldiers are there to show the military perspective - how we are physically fighting the Decepticons, the hackers are there to show the OTHER side of the defense, and Shia is the 'everyteen', so the film's audience has someone to identify with.

Bernie Mac? Fuck knows!

It's only as I got older I recognised the treacle-iness, and the Indy/Short Round father/son dynamic. Still didn't ruin it for me though.

"Transformers " is unique in the sense that it was able to change (pun intended) and evolve within several mediums. As the years went by, it was able to obtain new fans of ALL AGES through different designs and character incarnations.

This live action movie is a logical extension of that fact.

I bet during the course of PT filming McCallum lost count of the amount of times he had to grit his teeth and say, "Think about the money, think about the money.."

At best, Thundercats will be an interesting diversion - but it won't be a classic, by its very nature. It's a basically silly premise.

Unless of course they make some HUGE changes... Flames on Lion-O?!

Ah, well... night all!

And the Decepticons weren't smart enough to create their own Decepticon Matrix of Leadership? Do you think if Megatron had been aware of Prime's little all-powerful MacGuffin he would have wasted his time with Energon Cubes, the Space Bridge, or any other one of his lame brain masterplans? Even the explanation of what the damn thing was versus what it was capable of doing was ludicrous.

I think the prequels have cast a slim shadow over the OT and dumbed down the franchise overall.

I don't recall "religion" ever entering the story of the Transformers. As for the Matrix, WE didn't even know it existed until Prime removed it and gave it to Ultra Magnus.

When does Megatron make fun of the Autobots for being religious? I don't recall that at all.

Unicron's origins have apparently been changed over time as well. Ultimately, he's become an albatross of the franchise. No biggie though.

"Till all are one" - definitely has a Eastern philosophical ring to it. However, I imagine the idea behind the statement is based more in the notion of peace - the day when their race (which had been fighting for millions of years) would cease to be at war.

It's really apples and oranges.

Regarding "Till all are one", I guess it could mean until Cybertron is united, but why do they say it right after Prime dies? It could mean till everything is one like in Eastern religion.

The fact of the matter is, different movies are loved and hated by different people for difference reasons and different tastes. There's not one person who can declare that all that they love is the ONLY thing to love and everything else is beneath what they love.

There are levels of quality out there, but there are also levels of filmmaking. Some movies are created to showcase an action packed ride to make audiences laugh and cheer, rather than having to involve themselves in an extreme compelling and detailed storyline. Sometimes people just want to have a good ole time. Sometimes they just want to laugh at dumb jokes and dumb humor, thus the success of the early Jim Carrey movies.

Your idea of cinema is so unrealistic. It's entertainment. There are art house movies yes, but cinema was created to entertain. That was the whole purpose. So people could go into theaters, forget their troubles, forget the problems in the world, and be entertained.

But, you then go on to say that the problem with it was the script sucked. So unless I'm wrong, and I may be, you showed interest in "Temple" even though the script sucked. And you think the Transformers script sucked obviously, so why couldn't Transformers, despite apparently having a bad script, be entertaining as well? Even though it may not be the exact movie that you wanted.

Well, I'm refusing to read any point-by-point synopsis of the film. (That includes the novelization and comic adaption.) I don't want the damn thing spoiled in its entirety before I see it.

At the TFers fansites, I've already seen the people who have attended the advanced screenings (Australia, etc.) discuss the similarities between the film and novel/comics. Apparently, there are things in the book that are not in the movie. And there are scenes in the movie that play out differently than how they are described in the book/comics. I don't know how this affects the actual Transformers' screentime. But it's already been stated that the robots are in the movie much more than people were lead to believe.

You guys should read what the "ranters" over at the TFer sites are saying now that they've seen it.

I read posts and see people defending movies that I hate. Movies that I just don't understand why people like. But you know what? That's how it is. We all like different movies for different reasons. There's nothing wrong with that. Your insistence that the movies you like are the only movies to like because you like them and because you declare them to be of excellent quality is just asinine, ignorant, arrogant, and just foolish. And I'm willing to bet that everyone here at this site reading your preachings of excellence agree.

Why do you think these popcorn movies that come out year after year make so much money? Because people want to be entertained. Yes, people can be entertained by classics like Schindler's List, but there's a reason that that particular film wasn't as financially successful as say NIGHT AT THE MUSEUM (not defending this movie mind you... not a big fan of it), which quality-wise wasn't close to comparing at all, but entertainment wise it offered what people desire most when visiting the theater. Escapism.

When it comes down to it, the only issue I have with a person like you is that you don't look at other people's point of view and you don't understand that there is not one single definition of a great movie. It involves the collection of personal likes, personal needs, and personal beliefs. It's funny to see a person like you standing on your soap box like some dictator of cinema, insulting people's likes and dislikes. To top it off, Transformers-wise, you're judging a movie so harshly that you haven't even seen. In the end, who cares... but you remain to be nothing more than a snob who doesn't take into account anyone else's viewpoints. You are the end all be all in your world.

Let us all have a moment of silence for Memories of Murder. May he try not to take himself so seriously, me he see the world through other people's eyes for once in order to grow as a human being.

Yeah, I'm an asshole. Sorry folks, I just fucking hate snobs who belittle and mock someone else for liking and enjoying a certain movie.

And I love the Goldeneye approach as an example of pure quality filmmaking (enter sarcasm). You like it, that's great. I actually like it as well (although it doesn't hold a candle to Casino Royale in my opinion). But what an odd choice for your defense:) Yes, the image of Famke Janssen's character killing her victims by crushing them with her thighs is right up there in quality with Liam Neeson's heartbreaking plea in Schindler's List, "I could have saved more." LOL!

"Mouth breeder"???! Ewwwww!

It's true -- AICN will put up anything you throw at them without checking into it. Not "just about" anything. ANYthing.

...should have their right to critique revoked for all time. How anybody can call "The Godfather" boring is beyond me. Remember Michael killing Sollozo and McCluskey in Louie's Restaurant? Or Sonny getting gunned down in the causeway? How is that boring? Or the scene where *gasp* Vito and Michael talk about their family life and Vito warns Michael of the assassination attempt? Or the baptism massacre near the end? How silly of Coppola to include actual scenes where the people are developed into three dimensional characters whom you can care about?

If Michael Bay directed "The Godfather," you'd probably have 50 Cent or Shia Lebouf playing Vito Corleone and have two hours of mobsters smacking hoes and snorting coke and shooting Tommy guns into cars. Not to mention about fifty billion incomprehensible cuts that make it impossible to tell that what's going on.

Michael Bay is the worst film director working today. And I don't know how anybody with half a brain can trumpet his movies as high art or even good entertainment. You want the former or the latter, go watch "The Godfather," or "Jaws," or other films made by directors with talent.

You ARE a snob; I bet you're one of these people who listens to really obscure bands, hoping that they hit it big in the mainstream, so then you can tell everyone you liked them ages ago when they were good.

"Oh, and by the way, i showed your posts to an american pal of mine, and he swears that your posts detray, without a shadow of a doubt, that you are in fact an american pretending to pass as an english... and failing miserably at that."; Shit the bed, that is such a frighteningly ludicrous statement on so many levels! You're so anxious to discredit me for looking forward to this film that you're showing my posts to people?! Well, you can tell your American pal that when I read your post this morning, as I was sat in my British Army uniform, at my desk in Osnabruck, Germany, I had a good snigger to myself and wondered which one of you was the biggest knob!

I mean, if your 'pal', says I'm American and pretending to be English, well I must be then, eh? Done and dusted - that's me sorted.

Not only are you a snob, you are an intellectual lightweight, and slightly hysterical, by all accounts.

Monty16... please actually READ the posts concerned - NO-ONE is comparing TF's to LOTR OR Schindlers List; they were being used as examples in various discussions.

Besides, I have probably FORGOTTEN more about LOTR than you'll ever know.

In my haste, I typed a word wrong. It happens. Also, I'm not mom with a new handle. I've posted on a few occasions over the years.

As for Bay, I stand by my previous assertion. Bay is such a bad director that he makes Joel Schumacher look like Ingmar Berman. And anybody who calls "The Godfather" a bore should have their pulses checked.

p.s. saw the movie tonight, awesome summer movie.