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Harry books a room in Eli Roth's HOSTEL: PART 2, it seems like a nice place to stay!

Nice by Lynchmob81	Jun 5th, 2007 03:53:55 PM
Might have to check it out.
Huh! by mbeemer	Jun 5th, 2007 03:54:34 PM
No one else seems to have posted yet...
my favorite severed head scene . . . by jonahfan	Jun 5th, 2007 03:56:33 PM
mask of zorro had a floating head in a jar of water, which antonio banderas took a drink from. that's probably my favorite.
Geeze, you weren't kidding when you said spoilers! by Larry of Arabia	Jun 5th, 2007 03:59:34 PM
You spoiled about 5 movies there. Anyway, I'm one who won't be seeing it as this kind of movie isn't my cup of tea. If anyone calls a movie to task for showing brutality or being morally repugnant, well they don't have to see it either. If enough people don't want to see movies like this, and that seems to be the trend now as horror is going through a rough patch, they'll stop releasing them. Eli has the right to make it, others have the right to see it, you have the right to whine about but really, just go join a book club. I'm a librarian, I can give you some good suggestions, like "Blood Meridian."
SHUT THE FUCK UP HARRY by CQuest	Jun 5th, 2007 04:00:05 PM
6, now count em, 6 articles on roth. obviously this site is taking the high road to the 99% tb hate......by just sayin fuck you, we are gonna overdo it. LOL. if this wasnt the net harry, that would take balls, but...since its the net...it just takes moving your flabby fingers over the keyboard. die. fast.
also, you are so off base by CQuest	Jun 5th, 2007 04:03:55 PM
people here dont give a SHIT about the violence. we have seen it all. we can take a rabbit shitting on a monkeys face and throwing it all up into onto a dildo that fucks a pregnant nun. what we DO give a shit about is a HORRIBLE STORY, HORRIBLE SCRIPT, written by a fuckin hack, who is gettin too much press HERE, and only HERE.
I love the horror genre, which is why I hate Roth! by Atticus Finch	Jun 5th, 2007 04:05:16 PM
At least this site is creating backlash for the film that will hopefully hurt its B.O. so Roth goes away soon. And now, the new AICN catchphrase: FUCK HOSTEL!
i am by haitu	Jun 5th, 2007 04:06:10 PM
crying at roth's support on AICN
not to mention... by CQuest	Jun 5th, 2007 04:07:08 PM
miss me with that "oh grow up" bullshit. how bout YOU grow the fuck up? you are wearing blinders and your holier than thou attitude has been duly noted. its disgusting how much dick you must have sucked to pretend to be friends with roth. you are a fat ugly fuck, who would want to be friends with u? seriously? no lie, no bullshit. argh, i dont even know why it pisses me off so much, but it does. its the fact that you actually think we are HATERS, and cant deal with violence, like u are so above us and we can only think its great or...we are sickened by the violence. wtf?? then u mention the movie that roth RIPPED OFF....thats not homage, thats ripping off. everything about you STINKS harry. everything.
CQuest by HEADGEEK	Jun 5th, 2007 04:09:14 PM
And yet, why do you call him a hack? Is he taking every bland genre job handed to him? Is he making toothless horror made by the big studios? His collective films have been made for under George Clooney's salary on Ocean's 13 alone? He's made the most solid sequel this summer with fresh characters, story and the best ENDING thus far this summer. Yet I haven't seen a single case you've made for his bad writing, direction - just senseless name calling. Write an astute criticism and I'll debate it with you, but childishly ranting gets no respect.
Girl Power! by Neil McCauleys Crew	Jun 5th, 2007 04:11:38 PM
So somebody in the movie gets "Lorena Bobbited"
Well that's dissapointing by smashthetv	Jun 5th, 2007 04:13:00 PM
Hey what do you call someone who gives an opinion on something they know nothing about? An idiot? An asshole? CQuest? I mean, if you're going to hate on something, at least KNOW what it is you're hating on. Personally I can't see the difference between someone bitching about a film they've never seen (idiocy) versus someone that hates a lifestyle they've never lived (bigotry). Get a new hobby CQuest, and really anyone else who takes time out of their lives to bitch on a messageboard. That was cool back in 1995.
CQuest Part 2 by HEADGEEK	Jun 5th, 2007 04:13:19 PM
And who are you? I'm well over 7,000 friends on Myspace... most of my friends have been friends for over 10 years. With my best friend being exactly that for 31 years. I didn't say you haters, I was referring to an actual film critic who wrote his piece today, and I won't name him, because he doesn't deserve the traffic. But he's right up your alley.
Torture porn must die by el-guappo	Jun 5th, 2007 04:13:58 PM
Torture porn must go the way of the cheese filled rollerskating movies of the 70's.
MOST SOLID SEQUEL of the Summer by ProfGriffin	Jun 5th, 2007 04:17:23 PM
Not sure I'm with you there Harry ol' buddy...my vote stays with Pirates. BUT (as I've said in other talkbacks) it's effective because it causes such kneejerk reactions. Harry, remember Rex Reed's infamous TCM quote? Remember the flak from Silent Night Deadly Night? We've seen it. Remember Ilsa? Bloodsucking Freaks? Etc...etc? The gore isn't excessive. Really. But the tone is stomach punch brutal. NOT FOR ME thank you, but bravo Eli for apparently tapping into a vein (pun intended).
good review harry... by billyhitchcock	Jun 5th, 2007 04:18:22 PM
...you almost won me over. and even if most horror films are watched for the escape and survival the suspense and relief, these films are specifically about the violence and death. if roth doesn't intend this then he needs to have a word with his marketing people. to me it just seems that the people in these films are 2nd to the torture. and that's what it is. it's not a gunshot or a stab or a punch, it's calculated infliction of pain and that is the main thing anyone watching it takes from the cinema, especially that group of slightly underage kids that sneak in to brag about it to their friends. and about those critics that don't deserve a mention, they are us, you're loyal readership, who are almost in complete agreement about this subject, we made you and we deserve respect from you in the content you decide to us here. don't force feed us crap. be honest. don't saturate us with unbalanced opinion. why sell your soul when it's why we all loved you in the first place.
for starters by CQuest	Jun 5th, 2007 04:19:07 PM
lets see, he completely remade his last movie. at least with the bloated pirates movies, they tried something new. but this? its the same exact thing only now..with a twist! its not 3 boys...its 3 girls! lets talk about his use of "restaurant buzzers" to let killers know their prey is ready. what? how corny is that? buzzers? a basic "coatroom" for weapons, with number tags? and the ending? the best ending? dude....they have a throw away line towards the beginning about the girl being rich....and the ending all depends on that...one line. here we have 15 euro trash thugs with guns, anthony hopkins lookalike staring on, and this girl just blurts out....ill buy my way out....and snipes the guys shit off, before walking off like she now owns the place. in the context of this kind of movie, this was the most sloppy ending Ive ever seen. how exactly is that good? seriously? its not FUNNY, its not even disgusting. its fake bugs bunny. its corny slapstick. then the very end....the kids play soccer with the head? excuse me? this is good? this entertains u? You have 99% of your talkbackers who dislike this movie, dislike the coverage of roth. How does that not count for something? if you dont start taking that into consideration, your site will fall. it wont be this month or next month....but it will slowly decline. u know it, i know it.
ProfGriffin by HEADGEEK	Jun 5th, 2007 04:20:36 PM
Hey buddy... You seen HOSTEL PART 2? It's very different violence wise than the first film... Closer to PHIBES and THEATRE OF BLOOD than to the drillbit to the legs sort of thing. The violence to the aggressors is far more violent than to our victims.
funny comment about being honest by smashthetv	Jun 5th, 2007 04:21:20 PM
I was actually at the Sunday/Monday screening, I've seen the film, and I think Harry gave a completely honest opinion of the movie. And before you tell me I'm kissing ass here, I'd point out that I didn't like the first Hostel at all. I thought the characters were weak, and that there was way too much shock and not enough rock to make it a worthwhile film. but Hostel 2 is a big step up from that and, for my money's worth, a kick ass film.
billyhitchcock by HEADGEEK	Jun 5th, 2007 04:27:37 PM
The reason we talk so much about the film and about Eli is that collectively - the reviewers and editors of AICN genuinely seem to like his work. Many of us feel it's a bright light in the murkiness of the SAW films which seem to rake in 40 million opening weekends. Here we get real character work, in this film - the killers aren't faceless, we see who they are. They're not just some masked assassin ... they're messed up folks that have real issues... and believe it or not, they're not very successful at what they're attempting. As one person mentioned in a previous talkback - the killings in violence is a very small portion of this film. It's more about the characters involved.
Is Jordan Ladd in this film? by Vonfolger	Jun 5th, 2007 04:28:35 PM
Maybe you can reveal to us what her role is without spoiling too much. I know she was in Prague with Jay Hernandez shooting Hostel 2 when they both shot the Thanksgiving trailer. Always been a big fan of hers since Nowhere and The Specials.
regular, exactly. by CQuest	Jun 5th, 2007 04:31:27 PM
i remember when i first heard about hostel, and read up on it, i was excited because i thought i would see something cool, a horror movie for our time. went to the screening, and laughed at the whole thing. then laughed at roth as he smugly asked us what we thought about it (this being before i knew who he was) to which i laughed, the girl i was with laughed, and dude felt dismissed. whatever. thats MY "how i met eli roth" story!anyway. back to the movies. you dont care about any of the characters whatsoever in these movies, not in the least bit. there is no real story to speak of. its just like porn. a means to an end, and the end here is the torture bullshit. there is no real rhyme or reason for it. i can put up with ANYTHING, ive seen a horse fucking a woman for goodness sake. but the hostel movies? fuck the horror aspect,they just plain suck.
So... by TopHat	Jun 5th, 2007 04:31:50 PM
...its our fault for being prudes when it comes to sexual acts in films while glorifying violence. NOW, its our fault for NOT glorifying violence. Yet another trademark Headgeek review; "You must like this, if not, you are less than me, for I understand EVERYTHING!" Oh, and Eli Roth DESERVES the hate he gets, he's a fucking asshole: You guys remember the friend of the male lead in THE GIRL NEXT DOOR who wants to be a filmmaker? Remember how much of a dick he is at the end? That's Eli Roth. The character is based on the arrogant bullshit that Roth says and the way he treats people like shit.
Violence isn't the problem by ProfGriffin	Jun 5th, 2007 04:34:24 PM
I've seen worse, hell... we all have. We've seen EVERYTHING under the sun done to the human body...from decapitation to zombie-lead disembowelment. No, this movie is not gory or over the top in effects. It really isn't. It's the TONE. It's not stomach turning (gross) it's stomach PUNCHING. It gives you a knot in your stomach when characters we have spent some time with are killed...SLOWLY. We hear them plead and beg, they cry, they "want to go home" they scream in pathetic hopelessness and they cry out for their mommies and daddies...all while dying...slowly. You see, it's not the gross factor, or the effects. It's the human suffering. When you brought up TCM, I agree because I know some people who just can't watch Sally screaming her fool head off...for a seemingly endless time. Roth knows what causes a fuss...and he exploits it. To that end, he is a success. NOT MY PERSONAL cup of tea...but nonetheless, people watch. Compared to Phibes and Theatre of Blood?...eh, I'm afraid I'm not with you. Those films were FUN even though they dealt with some pretty violent death, But HOSTEL TONE-wise, well, it's a dark dark place.
regularfacetoht by HEADGEEK	Jun 5th, 2007 04:34:24 PM
I browsed the talkbacks for everything here on AICN... there's to much to read all of them, and frankly - when the majority seems to be folks like CQ - it's hard to give them merit. I don't write for TALKBACKERS perse. I write for my friends, locally and abroad. But mostly, I write for myself. I enjoy writing about my thoughts on film. Of engaging in a debate. Across the Horror sites online - you guys seem to be grotesquely out of touch with Eli Roth. Most horror writers seem to enjoy his films. And like I said... I just saw the film with an audience of 225 folks that came out on a Sunday night at midnight to watch it and gave the film a standing ovation. There are OTHER opinions than your own. They're just as justifiable as your own. It's a subjective discussion. Fact is - all the AICN folks at the screening really enjoyed the film. And I could care less if they did or didn't - and would publish their review if they didn't. What I'm not going to do, is publish reviews based on a leaked early edit without the final score or sound effects that showed up online, that's something I don't support.
Oh.. And I dare you. by Vonfolger	Jun 5th, 2007 04:34:43 PM
I dare you to tell me the name of a more unique and fun Horror director that has emerged since 2000 here in the U.S. -- -- The Only reason why people bash Roth is out of pure 100% jealousy. Everyone wants his job, his luck, and his life. Screenings with Tarantino and Rodriguez, jaunts to foreign countries with exotic ladies, and actual functioning social skills (Imagine that!). -- -- Listen to his commentary on Cabin Fever where he calls his parents and spills his guts, it'll give you a new respect for the guy. He's a lot like the rest of us, he just got very lucky.
But what I REALLY want to know, Harry by Loosejerk	Jun 5th, 2007 04:35:09 PM
is if your nephew liked it or not?
oh and harry... by CQuest	Jun 5th, 2007 04:36:21 PM
i guess its just the combination of everything that has your TBs fed up. the whole HD bullshit mixed in with this has us all pretty much sick to our stomachs with the shilling. whether u intend it or not, its obviously there. then when you have 5-6 "articles" on roth....my god. what are u thinking? why not have a round table with your "writers" and make it one article? to see roths name all over the site makes us all think hey, they are gonna just put it in our faces whether we like it or not. its a disgrace and a disservice to everyone that comes here. you SHOULD be ashamed
profGriffin by HEADGEEK	Jun 5th, 2007 04:38:20 PM
There's really not a lot of the begging in this film. Again, did you see HOSTEL 2? Tone wise, it's far more theatrical than the previous film. It's less MIDNIGHT EXPRESS and more Hammer.
Characters?! by TheHorror	Jun 5th, 2007 04:38:57 PM
Harry, the "switch" at the end is an absolute joke! It's poorly acted and quite frankly horrible. I know you know this, everyone does. I dunno if Eli is trying to do too much at once ie in terms of making it funny/sick/gory/dramatic/suspe nsful etc etc, but none of it works it's an extremely thin film and should be burned - imo it shows a step back for Roth, not foward.
hard to give someone like me merit? by CQuest	Jun 5th, 2007 04:39:36 PM
what? are you kidding me? again with the holier than thou bullshit. hey, sorry i speak with a smattering of curse words, but thats how it is. Im just as intelligent as anyone in these talkbacks, and my words ring true. you just like to ignore the message, opting for simplfying it to "he is beneath me". Nevermind that 99% of the people here feel the EXACT same way that I do. I guess we are all just idiots who cant appreciate a good horror movie? Doesnt matter that we like the shining, and hate saw.....but if u dislike hostel....better watch out...cuz harry is taking it PERSONALLY. please man. thats the biggest amount of bullshit i have ever seen posted at this site. YOU need to grow up.
prof griffin by billyhitchcock	Jun 5th, 2007 04:43:47 PM
exactly. perfectly said. everyone here loves gore, but we don't need the glorification of human suffering. i don't even think cannibal holocaust glorified the violence. art is supposed to be escapism. i don't really want to think about the sort of people that even slightly want to escape to this. movies can be provocative and thought provoking and even disturbing without crossing the line.
and your copout about posting unfinished movies? by CQuest	Jun 5th, 2007 04:44:07 PM
PLENTY of reviews that have been posted here are from unfinished movies. I myself have sent in two that got posted and one was for...suprise....Hostel Part 1. Now, you are using that as an excuse? Oh its not finished, so we cant post their review, even tho 98% of the movie is there? Again with the bullshit harry. You choose not to post it JUST when it comes to Hostel 2. But what about the next test screening with temp music and unfinished effects? are you puttin an end to all those as well?
HOSTEL 2 WAS GREAT....... by cdp	Jun 5th, 2007 04:45:19 PM
It is Eli Roth best film so far. Very Solid sequel. Enjoyed it.
Why I won't watch Hostel by Movietool	Jun 5th, 2007 04:45:34 PM
It's not because I think violence in film is damaging our society. As Harry pointed out there's probably nothing in Hostel that hasn't been done before and more graphically to boot - it's just that the entire POINT of that movie seemed to be about getting your jollies by watching ultra-realistic depictions of sadistic torture. I think the "torture porn" criticism is valid. It was marketed and hailed by many as an achievement in torture - the "boner jams" of torture movies. Much of Hostel's appeal is getting people excited that they're really going to see something sick and twisted. That mindset disturbs me, and people who grin at ultra-realistic depictions of torture disturb me too. Having said that, I actually think Roth is quite talented (I like Cabin Fever a lot). But Hostel is not my cup of tea, and mostly because as far as I can reckon from the reviews I've read of it online, the "torture porn" label is apt.
Harry, I grew up in a Christian home filled by Quin the Eskimo	Jun 5th, 2007 04:45:34 PM
with violence. I much prefer the straight ahead fucked up people. Thank you for that.
Loosejerk.... CQuest by HEADGEEK	Jun 5th, 2007 04:48:39 PM
Loosejerk - the sexual content is not to Gio's mommy's liking. I also am not the one that takes him to realistic horror. His mother has been. I tend to show Gio black & white horror and Hammer horror from the 60s. And well the Zombie stuff - because zombies are his dinosaurs and hot wheels. Hey CQuest - The HD thing was me going out buying the player I could afford and like - and experiencing the format in my home and talking about what I liked. And I don't write articles on this site for talkbackers, not always. Talkbackers represent less than 5% of my readership. They're the most vocal, because they're the ones that wish to be most vocal. Like the letter columns in newspapers or the callers on radio talkshows. That said, I love reading the unrestrained furor with which you guys write... We're writing about Eli, because this week... of the films coming out - HOSTEL 2 is the one that interests us. OCEAN'S 13... an unnecessary sequel to an unnecessary sequel to an unnecessary remake that sucked from the get go... but looks so damn good sucking that you seem to forget it's sucking because you wish this talent was doing anything but what they're doing. Well... that's my feeling on that. I'd write more about it, but they're not having press screenings here in Austin... or seemingly much of anywhere else. They haven't made talent available for interviews. In addition - the week has been a slow news week thus far, so we're writing about what has been accessible, what we are passionate about. And we'll never curb what we're passionate about here at AICN.
movietool by billyhitchcock	Jun 5th, 2007 04:50:12 PM
agreed, on everything. i loved cabin fever.
ANOTHER Hotel II Post! by mr.underwater	Jun 5th, 2007 04:50:20 PM
WHY? It's an okay movie, sure. I liked the grand guignol flourishes, hated the community college Mamet impersonation and thought a few of the effects looked a bit silly. Solid TWO STAR flick. Y'know, not something worth devoting your entire front page to...
HOSTEL 2 WAS EXCELLENT by cdp	Jun 5th, 2007 04:50:44 PM
And unlike most Eli Roth haters on the site , Ive actually SEEN the film. Its good , go out and see it and THEN form an opinion.
The moral of the story is... by MontyPigeon	Jun 5th, 2007 04:51:25 PM
When guys start sleeping with people referred to as Yoko they start losing not only their common sense but also their intelligence when reviewing films. Worst thing that happened to the Beatles was Yoko meeting Lennon, worst thing to happen to this site is Yoko (who surely is Eli Roth in drag) blowing Harry for reviews. You have no idea of what makes a good film anymore Harry, sorry but this review shows that. Its a great website but has been bought by the studios. To even belittle the name of Hammer by associating it with this shit is why you have lost it. Its a shame but that's what sellouts do.
Harry and Eli dont have to answer to a bunch of nerds by cdp	Jun 5th, 2007 04:53:55 PM
They have careers in the film industry , grow a set of balls andgo out a create your own films...Eli Roth haters are such losers.....
regularfacetoht by HEADGEEK	Jun 5th, 2007 04:54:43 PM
That was shown to me specifically to review - and I didn't use it to evicerate the film based upon a seemingly unrational hatred of George Lucas. As for the opinions other than your own... out of the alleged 95% - how many have actually seen this film with an audience, in a theater - as it was meant to be seen? OR - how many have simply joined the circus regurgitating the same tired hatred over and over again? Without actually talking about what happened in the movie, or the actual artistry or lack thereof.
BTW Harry by MontyPigeon	Jun 5th, 2007 04:55:26 PM
Hammer Horror films have a story, guess you missed that part of those films which is weird because you found it so easily with this bullshit. Sorry but I feel angry that you could even mention Hammer, those studios are too precious to be related to this. You piss on the name and then tell everyone you love Hammer. "Shabby critic pussywhipped for eternity" - says your headstone.
cdp by Tripman5000	Jun 5th, 2007 04:55:43 PM
I did see it-fucking hated it. However,I respect anyone and everyones opinions on this(and,indeed,any)film. What I don't like is the hypocrisy of Harry when he states that he won't post reviews of the workprint of the film,when,as regularfacetoht pointed out,he's had no problem before!!
calm down by thedigitalpunkz	Jun 5th, 2007 04:56:58 PM
ive been on this site for a while now. and never felt compelled to write in before as much as today. i wont be watching hostel 1 or 2, because i dont enjoy seeing gore and torture, yes im a wimp. but if i had a friend who had a movie comming out and i was in harrys shoes, id do exactly the same thing, i would help out my friend and try and create a buzz about it.
So,Harry,,, by Tripman5000	Jun 5th, 2007 04:57:32 PM
....by your rationale,any opinion of a movie NOT seen in a packed movie theatre is NOT valid?
MontyPigeon by HEADGEEK	Jun 5th, 2007 04:57:44 PM
actually - Yoko loved the film too. Clutching my hand during the tense moments, plugging her ears during some of the sound effects. Squealing and smiling along with the audience. Bought? Seems to me AICN is the only site without HOSTEL PART 2 ads on it. We talk about the film because we genuinely like it.
The "you haven't seen it" argument by Movietool	Jun 5th, 2007 04:58:33 PM
doesn't quite work here, Harry. I'm not criticisn Roth's artistry. I have to rely on the reviews I've read here and elsewhere, because really and truly, I don't WANT to see a movie that depicts realistic scenes of torture. Does that mean I have no right to an opinion about it? Do I have to first watch child pornography before I can condemn it?
Well gee now, I saw a lowly screener... by mr.underwater	Jun 5th, 2007 04:59:01 PM
And Roth didn't hand deliver it with a Q&A afterwards. Maybe that's why I didn't do backflips for it... But maybe, if a screener's not how the film should be seen, Lion's Gate shouldn't have sent it out. That's not really my fault
Oh,and cdp. by Tripman5000	Jun 5th, 2007 04:59:15 PM
We're"fucking nerds"? Isn't everyone posting on this site one then??
Harry, havent you contradicted yourself? by eppdude	Jun 5th, 2007 04:59:49 PM
On the "Commentary" track to HOSTEL, your complement Eli on his making characters we care about, making the horror so much worst. You expressly said it was something "I think you did right." Now you seem to be contradicting yourself, scoffing at the characters in the first film as "ugly." Which is it, sir? Which version of Harry do I believe this time?
The reason Harry mentions Matarazzo twice (spoilers): by Thick McRunFast	Jun 5th, 2007 05:01:50 PM
She's hung upside down naked, you see her goodies, and then she's gutted. I'm hoping it's the seeing-her-naked part that stuck in Harry's mind, not the torture-afterward part. But it's not torture porn; it's torture porn with women this time...cooool.
Movietool... by dcut75	Jun 5th, 2007 05:05:16 PM
That analogy is so retarded I don't know where to begin
Tripman5000 by HEADGEEK	Jun 5th, 2007 05:05:16 PM
No. However, this site doesn't support watching films based on downloaded roughcuts when the film is actually being released in theaters and having screenings actively. AND - this site has never supported the act of internet piracy. Most of the time, when we get leaked stuff - it's leaked SPECIFICALLY to us - and we respect our sources and the filmmakers to not further leak that material where it could harm the film. EVEN if it's a movie we don't like. I love the industry of film. Movies are amongst my favorite creations on the planet. Piracy threatens that. I love to see films with an audience in a movie theater. Often times when offered screeners of movies, I try to set up advance screenings of film prints that I then open up to the readers of this site to attend, because movies DESERVE to be seen with a good audience. An audience is the instrument a movie plays - and in the case of HOSTEL 2 - it adds to the experience. It's like watching a comedy alone, versus with a great audience. One is superior to the other.
dcut75 by Movietool	Jun 5th, 2007 05:07:01 PM
Give it a shot.
back to the DVD and HD DVD column by HEADGEEK	Jun 5th, 2007 05:07:15 PM
you guys and girls have fun
lotta headgeek on this board... by fractureJonze	Jun 5th, 2007 05:10:02 PM
damn.
Well first... by dcut75	Jun 5th, 2007 05:12:17 PM
You're comparing a work of fiction, however realistic, to a heinous crime with helpless victims. You don't have to see a child abused to know it's wrong. You should wait to see a film before you critique it.
100% on Rotten Tomatoes right now by dcut75	Jun 5th, 2007 05:13:58 PM
I'll prepare for the apocalypse
Is everything released the same weekend... by TheHorror	Jun 5th, 2007 05:14:10 PM
as hostel pt2 going to get a shit review, would't suprise me - this film sucks, even on the fundementals of filmmaking not to mention the huge plot holes, boring story and shit script. fuck you harry and fuck this flick. I hope eli's dick doesn't taste too bad, it's found a new home in your mouth and it doesn't look like leaving anytime soon.
7,000 MYSPACE FRIENDS!!1 by UMAGA	Jun 5th, 2007 05:15:55 PM
What a thing to brag about. LMAO. And whoever keeps saying make your own movie, give me the fucking millions, asshole.
Hey! Cowards, by dcut75	Jun 5th, 2007 05:16:12 PM
Gracie is playing, I'm sure that won't upset your fragile little stomachs.
And how did Harry see the movie? by UMAGA	Jun 5th, 2007 05:16:47 PM
With his face in Eli's ass cheeks?
I thought the original was better by BitterMan23	Jun 5th, 2007 05:17:05 PM
The montage of everyone bidding is possibly the best idea he's ever had, but nothing else in the film measured up. The 'shock' twist of Roger Bart being more sadistic than Burgi would have been a lot more exciting if the characters' entire arcs weren't stolen directly from DOGMA, of all things. Also, i think Eli is doing himself a major disservice by constantly swearing that this one is more violent and more sick than the original. It's not, at all. It's not BAD, no, but it's not this unparalleled odyssey of violence he makes it out to be. The Hitcher remake has more violence.
But Harry, ROTH loves the SAW films? by Rex Manning	Jun 5th, 2007 05:18:40 PM
..and u speak of the joy of the protagonists' escape? well how come u loved Devils Rejects???
regularfacetoht by Tripman5000	Jun 5th, 2007 05:18:56 PM
Thankyou-summed my point up perfectly!
I'll take this one Harry... by dcut75	Jun 5th, 2007 05:20:01 PM
Devils Rejects was a good film. With an excellent, albeit subtle, subtext.
Apologist sycophantic nonsense vs. "THE COCK SCENE" by Pound Sand	Jun 5th, 2007 05:22:02 PM
You see, bathing in the blood of virgins is nothing new, in fact, there's a long and rich history of this sort of thing. Same with cock chopping. So which is it? Homage to olde country traditions, or an ode to modern time war trauma? The answer, apparently, is depends on who's asking. You're welcome to enjoy this movie, but personally, I think spending the money on a ticket and sitting through this would take away a little bit of my soul. I'll stick with my Sam Cooke records.
I went and downloaded it as i couldnt wait... *spoilers by bongo123	Jun 5th, 2007 05:22:20 PM
Dont worry i totally support movies that i like so i'll be dragging my mates to see it along with the wife and will be buying the dvd to go with Hostel part 1, so dont give me any shite over it. i thought this one was far superior to the first one in that you felt for the characters the first ones i couldn't give a fuck about either, as we say in europe.. "typical american jocks". These girls where different although i would've like Eli to have thrown a curveball as i guessed who went first, 2nd and who escaped, there means of escape is i didnt see coming and i genuinely loved every minute of this. To all the pussies out there saying about how this is fucking "evil" really do need to wis the fuck up, this is a class-A horror movie that hit all the right notes, first 28weeks later then this.. nice for us horror fans to get some good fucking movies for a change.
That's why it's called an Analogy by Movietool	Jun 5th, 2007 05:22:51 PM
I'm not equating the two. Obviously one is an unthinkable offense against humanity and the other is simply a juvenile form of expression. You're right - I don't need to see a child abused to know it's wrong, but I also don't need to see realistic depictions of human suffering (intended to titilate an audience) to find it distateful, whether its fictional or not. The connection is I find them both disturbing, and I don't need to actually watch either to form that opinion.
Also, Oceans 13 had plenty of media screenings by BitterMan23	Jun 5th, 2007 05:25:49 PM
theres already a dozen or so (mostly positive) reviews on RT. There were 2 in LA and 2 in NY that i know of.
Hmm... by Tripman5000	Jun 5th, 2007 05:26:52 PM
"It's like watching a comedy alone, versus with a great audience. One is superior to the other." Didn't quite work that way with "Snakes On A Plane"did it? A turd is a turd,regardless how you view it. Thanks for your reply though.However,I'm a bit concerned that you're all over any anti-Hostel 2/Eli Roth talkback like a fucking rash when most of the time,you're prepared to sit back,maybe input a couple of posts and retire ;)!
The Exorcist... by dcut75	Jun 5th, 2007 05:27:23 PM
Depicted realistic scenes of demonic possession, does me liking that movie make me a satanist?
AICN by TheHorror	Jun 5th, 2007 05:27:24 PM
Will never be impartial to a Roth film...ever! Harry K and Roth are fuck buddies, it's not thier fault, their in love - although if you ask me it's clear who the fat, sweaty ginger bitch of the relationship is, who has lost all credablility as a writer - Roth won't help you make your horror film harry, no-one will, it's shit. How long has this site been going? Since 96? It's had a good innings I guess, everyone has a price. Fuck this shitty film.
Wow. That may the biggest apologist piece I've read by JackPumpkinhead	Jun 5th, 2007 05:31:13 PM
...since Irving. I mean, come on...
classicgamenerd by TheHorror	Jun 5th, 2007 05:31:58 PM
AMEN!
The Hostel II debate offically has me confused... by DarthTarter	Jun 5th, 2007 05:32:56 PM
I hate censorship and those jerkface criminals that blame movies, games, & music for their crimes. That is what I thought the original debate was on when I defended Eli's right to make and show this movie. But now what is the point of the debate if the general thought is we should not censor this movie or future movies? Is it just anger over the coverage that the movie is getting on AICN? Once again if you do not wish to censor and you don't think it will cause people to become torturing nutjobs, then now it's just dislike for Roth's films, their quality, and contents. Thus it's become opinions which means it's no longer a debate.
personal digs by thedigitalpunkz	Jun 5th, 2007 05:34:28 PM
just how does bitching about harry help this site. the fact is he gives us the readers what we want, movie news. dont be such a jerk to slag him off personally. yes you can have a opinion on his feelings to a film, but getting personal, is for children.
Listen to you fucknuts going on about Harry.. by bongo123	Jun 5th, 2007 05:35:09 PM
Hes fucking promoting a film he likes made by a guy whose his mate and you go fucking mental...wtf!? like if you werent in the same boat you wouldnt do the same, its his fucking movie site and as for all these hilarious threats,,, grow up for fucks sakes, your a bunch of fucking michael bay wannabes with zero fucking talent and a big mouth all safely hidden behind the internet... you wankers couldnt collectively buy a cup of coffee for fucks sake let alone make any difference to this site or movie.. its fucking film for christ sakes..
"big mouth all safely hidden by thedigitalpunkz	Jun 5th, 2007 05:38:17 PM
"big mouth all safely hidden behind the internet..." does anyone else find that hilarious?
I like Armageddon, does that make me an asteroid? by BitterMan23	Jun 5th, 2007 05:39:32 PM
i hope so.
to bongo by thedigitalpunkz	Jun 5th, 2007 05:41:15 PM
shit i thought you were going on about the people who were defending harry
Oh, for fuck's sake. by Shabbadoo	Jun 5th, 2007 05:42:02 PM
Quit defending yourself, fat man. What did you expect? You wrote a fucking review for a movie that was made by one of your friends. Did you NOT expect people to bash you? For Christ's sake, you've become notorious for your biases. And to everyone complaining that Harry's lost touch because of Yoko, just fucking leave it out. The man has professed his love for plenty of horrible movies since the dawning of Aintitcoolnews.
I find your momma hilarious... does that count? by bongo123	Jun 5th, 2007 05:42:18 PM
sorry couldnt resist..
WELL, I HAVE 7,000 MYSPACE FRIENDS WITH BENEFITS by Pound Sand	Jun 5th, 2007 05:44:07 PM
So there.
^ ^ ^ ^ by Tripman5000	Jun 5th, 2007 05:44:19 PM
"wannabes with zero fucking talent and a big mouth all safely hidden behind the internet." So making comments like that makes YOU a big man then?Hypocrite!
hey i said sorry... by bongo123	Jun 5th, 2007 05:45:49 PM
besides i couldn't resist...
WHAT IS THIS HOSTEL 2 MOVIE I KEEP READING ABOUT ? by Pound Sand	Jun 5th, 2007 05:47:18 PM
Is it one of those Kasdan ensemble pics?
Also. by Shabbadoo	Jun 5th, 2007 05:48:34 PM
Quit wasting bandwidth with all of these goddamn Alamo Drafthouse updates. Ok, you live in Austin, TX, and you love the fucking place. We get it. Drafthouse, Tim League, Robert Rodriguez, Yoko, childhood memories...great. Now start updating with everyone else in the world in mind. Oh, and good job having so many Myspace friends.
I hope Eli comes in here, BW style by BitterMan23	Jun 5th, 2007 05:50:39 PM
Unless maybe he learned his lesson after making an ass out of himself in Fangoria's letters page defending his use of 'fag' in the first film.
HARRY - ARE YOU FUCKED? by Fish Tank	Jun 5th, 2007 05:53:49 PM
Seriously dude. That fact that you think this is horror is extremely disappointing. A bouncing red wet rubber ball is horror, a party of paranoid men at a polar ice station is horror. This is just fucked up. I saw the bloodbath/sickle scene online, and that is fucked up shit. WHAT makes this violence justifiable? A tied up girl hanging naked upside down while screaming through a ball gag while cut is just FUCKING WRONG - mostly because WE DON'T NEED TO SEE IT. This is tentacle porn. This is Japanese schoolgirls crying while being gang-raped by aliens for an hour. If it's your thing, then you're fucked. Lines need to be drawn, Harry. You're on the wrong side.
Harry, the film has no story. by MontyPigeon	Jun 5th, 2007 05:58:00 PM
You're a nice guy and I feel the passion you have for movies when you write about them. On this one though, we will have to completely disagree. For me there is no story/characters/dialogue that means anything, its complete gibberish. However, I do take back my comment about your wife to be, that was uncalled for. Rage came through me when you brought up my favourite horror genre, Hammer.
ELI'S NEWEST GENRE: TENTACLE TORTURE PORN by Pound Sand	Jun 5th, 2007 05:59:44 PM
Fish Tank: It's only a matter of time before somebody puts the two ideas together, and everybody can argue about whether or not it's art. And Harry will pronounce, 'MEESA LOVED IT ! !"
Character? Seriously? by bluemcpoo	Jun 5th, 2007 06:00:23 PM
spoilers Why does the Christian girl go off in the dark with some strange guy she has never met before? Why is the dickless dude such a fucking pussy in the beginning of the movie and then changes for no apparent reason other than to make a convenient plot twist? There is nothing to dislike about these girls??? Really? What about the blond one insulting the Christian one and dangling her vaj in front of whatever creepy looking dude will give her drugs? There is no character development here. One dimensional pretty people put through certain horribly implausible steps so they can be tortured in whichever way Roth wished he could torture the kids that stole his lunch money.
Hey Harry, by FilmZ0mbie	Jun 5th, 2007 06:01:31 PM
In my mind, the people comparing this movie to child pornography or at the very least "Torture Porn" are in the same boat with the people that saw the original TCM and Last House on the Left as a sign of the decline of western civilization. Puritan scum.
That's what I wanted to know... by DarthTarter	Jun 5th, 2007 06:07:58 PM
Regularface & Gamenerd. So it's the coverage of the film more than the content of the film. But doesn't the continuing posting in said talkbacks only hurt your cause? If you want all things Roth to disappear, then wouldn't it be more wise to just start a silent protest by never posting? The more attention the articles get it almost proves people are interested in the movie...even if it's negative...thus they will continue.
Lorna's death by Prior Walter	Jun 5th, 2007 06:12:38 PM
Harry's description of the fdeath is actually one of my problems with the film--it's just not realistic. It's in the Hammer tradition, as Harry says...and what worked about the first Hostel was it seemed like this could really happen, which is just freaky. The over-the-top deaths in this film, just make it another horror movie.
There's more character development in any 2 seconds of by BitterMan23	Jun 5th, 2007 06:12:57 PM
Armageddon than there is in Hostel 2. "Shes rich, like super rich." or whatever. thats about the extent of character development. Roger Bart whines about his wife being mean to him, and we just have to take his word for it because in the ONE SCENE she is in, she's a blurry background character who disappears halfway through the scene. Man, what a cunt!
Harry, you're really not into it for the violence? by Thom85	Jun 5th, 2007 06:14:52 PM
That's a hard sell after reading your review. Personally, yeah, I don't like these kinds of movies, and in large part it's because I feel it is a geek show; in other words, the filmmaker continues to show you worse and worse stuff until he gets to a point that you can't look at it anymore. That’s not horror, to me. To me horror is like Jaws, where characters are fully fleshed out, beyond archetypes, and the scares and tense scenes revolve around those characters almost getting caught/eaten/killed, and there’s nothing they can do about it. The shark in Jaws doesn’t care that Brody has a family waiting for him. It’s hungry, and Brody has put himself smack in the middle of the sharks backyard. Anyway, you said you would respond to an intelligent argument, mine being that your review does not support your claim that you go to these movies to see people escape from these scenarios. Here goes: “Then there’s Heather Matarazzo as Lorna.... What I love about this character is she’s the character that we see begin to really love. I know I’ve had a friend like Lorna.” Okay, good, so you connect with the characters, like I said, I feel that’s really important for the Horror part of the genre to live up to its name. But then.... “Take the magnificent death of Heather Matarazzo’s Lorna ... the character being bathed in the blood of Heather Matarazzo” That struck me as all wrong. If you really cared about the character, her death should not have been magnificent but heart wrenching; she should be the ONE character you wanted to see make it out. And seeing her tormentor literally bath in her blood?! I can’t imagine feeling entertained by that indignity being done to a character I cared about, regardless of the historical reference. However, and I cite your quote “It’s wonderfully staged, bloodily erotic and sensual”, you seem to almost get turned on by it. I’m not trying to be flip or glib, but you did just describe a woman bathing in blood as erotic and sensual, no? And to cap it all... “My how we’ve become priggy” Sir, do you truly posit that it is “prude” to find a depiction of a woman bathing in the blood of someone who’s just been murdered as offensive/obscene/unnecessary? And if so, would you not acknowledge that view to be some sort of indicator of an enjoyment of grotesqueries, something beyond, say, the thrill an audience gets when the bad guy gets killed at the end of a movie. “Maybe it’s the soccer scene?” While you do quote a list of films that also include decapitation, I don’t believe any of them depict ON SCREEN (I include that only for the Silence of the Lambs) a decapitation done purely for enjoyment, and certainly none follow that up with the perpetrator using the severed head as a toy! And in the films that do have a decapitation, that is usually just an instance of violence, rather than, kinda, the point of the film. “the violence isn’t remarkably grotesque.” “acts of violence that are frankly… kinda common place in the history of film” “This isn’t like the SAW films ... which I feel is far worse than the violence here.” You named one film that released 36 years ago to include the blood bathing scene, which I don’t feel qualifies the “common place” sentiment. Dito for the head as sport equipment. As for the SAW films, I would argue that in those films are the polar opposite of something like hostel (i.e. no one has to die), as the villain finds selfish/self-centered people and asks them to choose between their life and the earthly trappings they’ve put above it. They are a (perhaps ham-fisted) commentary on our society, where as Mr. Roth’s film don’t seem to have any message behind them at all; his movies feel more like that childhood friend we all had who was always fascinated by road-kill and the like, in the vein of “Hey, guys, look how GROSS this is.” “I don’t come to movies like HOSTEL: PART TWO for the gore.” Well maybe I’ve just been to judgmental in this now way longer than I intended diatribe. BUT.... “I agree that the 3 main characters in that film were not the type of guys I like” You didn’t go to Hostel 1 for the characters, so what did attract you to that type of movie? Like I said up top though, I’m predisposed to hating these kinds of movies, and maybe you really do find something in them to enjoy besides the graphic violence that’s on display, but I felt that your review of the film indicated otherwise. And it’s not that I’m even trying to condemn you if that is the case, I just wish then that you (and everyone else) would simply admit “The graphic kills in the movie were the reason I decided to go see it.” Personally, at a time when I could go see Disturbia, Knocked-Up, PotC 3, or Ocean’s 13 at the local theater, I have ample reason to avoid this one. I wish more people felt the same way.
Sorry that looks so dense by Thom85	Jun 5th, 2007 06:15:47 PM
I can never get it to include skipped lines. Am i retarded?
to skip lines < br > without the spaces by BitterMan23	Jun 5th, 2007 06:20:02 PM
and i agree, the saw films, while maybe trying harder than the hostels to make the audience squirm and relying too much on music video editing, have much more fascinating villains and themes.
Why is anyone questioning Harry's tastes? by BitterMan23	Jun 5th, 2007 06:21:57 PM
This IS the same guy whos primary thought about heroes was that a 16 year old girl's hymen would constantly heal itself, right?
95% of the Roth hate here is actually the same people by TORTURE PWN	Jun 5th, 2007 06:22:47 PM
repeating themselves and mudslinging.And a good portion of the supporters are probably wondering why they should get involved in a bunch of anti-Roth shit-talk with a bunch of assholes who just skim or skip over the pro HOSTEL and neutral posts that actually make sense like a bunch of little Bill O'Relly wannabes.
It's "just desserts." by Barry Egan	Jun 5th, 2007 06:23:53 PM
Not "just deserves."
Torture PWN by Thom85	Jun 5th, 2007 06:27:39 PM
WHY do people like yourself persist in throwing up those lame defensive posts? "assholes who just skim or skip over the pro HOSTEL and neutral posts that actually make sense" Where are these alleged posts? How does one respond to "Eli Roth rulzzz" other than to rag on the finished product he keeps putting out? And are we assholes because we don't like Roth? In short, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!
Harry's Review IS Completely Accurate by LeckoManiac	Jun 5th, 2007 06:30:48 PM
My review was posted up on this site about a week ago. I saw the film at the Chicago AICN screening. Basically, Harry's review it completely accurate. There is no bullshit there. My review said pretty much the same thing (albeit in fewer words) and I don't work at AICN or anything like that. I was just a fan. But feel free to flame on. I don't expect anything else.
REPREHENSIBLE by gusterup	Jun 5th, 2007 06:30:54 PM
This film has not redeeming qualities, just like the original. It's more like 'attempted cinema' that actual cinema. Eli Roth has achieved a decent amount of success with three of the worst films made in the past decade. He has no more talent than any other horror director out there, and has less than a majority of them. He's just some idiot who watched a bunch of Fulci films and decided to buy a camera. Uwe Boll has more redeeming qualities than Roth. There is no place for trash like this, especially when respectable directors like Neil Marshall are out there busting their asses to help revitalize a genre that has only Eli Roth and "Saw" to claim as its own these days.
Harry you don't write for us? by HugePrawn	Jun 5th, 2007 06:32:11 PM
Harry, I've been reading your site for over 5 years and have enjoyed it all that time. Just this last month I've finally decided to register so I could post comments in the Talkback about the articles written here. So I gotta say after reading your posts in this Talkback dealing with Hostel II, I feel like I've been had. I feel like the redheaded step child and honestly...feel a little hurt. You say, "I don't write for TALKBACKERS perse. I write for my friends, locally and abroad." then you go on to say in another post, "And I don't write articles on this site for talkbackers, not always. Talkbackers represent less than 5% of my readership." Wow, I thought you wrote for everyone that takes the time to read YOUR site. I thought you wrote for everyone that takes the time to register on YOUR site, and get in to discussions with other FANS of YOUR site. Guess not.
Zion! Hear Gusterup! by Thom85	Jun 5th, 2007 06:34:30 PM
Children, that's what's called an "argument"; a list of opinions that cite what the author deems critical weaknesses in the film we are all discussing, that luckily go deeper than "Roth's a fag". So if you're going to call him an asshole, how about at least responding to what he said first?
LeckoManiac by Tripman5000	Jun 5th, 2007 06:40:53 PM
Your review was posted because it was POSITIVE....
Gusterup... by dcut75	Jun 5th, 2007 06:40:57 PM
Don't leave out Rob Zombie and Alexander Aja. The Hills Have Eyes was awesome. If you're disgusted by this, go check out some "art" cinema like 'Salo'.
COMMANDO: DIRECTOR'S CUT Announced!!! by UMAGA	Jun 5th, 2007 06:43:42 PM
Can we turn this into a Commando talkback?
So what if it was positive? by LeckoManiac	Jun 5th, 2007 06:44:42 PM
It isn't as though an opposing view is being surpressed. I sent my review in at 4am just hours after the screening. Maybe my review was posted because it was the first one sent in? Still, in the TalkBack for my review someone else at the screening posted his negative review for all to see. Maybe if he sends that review into Capone he gets it posted. Still, it is right there for everyone to see in the TalkBack.
Hundreds of peopel have posted their negative reviews. by Tripman5000	Jun 5th, 2007 06:46:04 PM
ALL have been dismissed!
UMAGA by Tripman5000	Jun 5th, 2007 06:46:41 PM
MORE ON THIS STORY NOW!LINK PLEASE MATE!!!!
Hundreds? Really? by LeckoManiac	Jun 5th, 2007 06:52:10 PM
How exactly have they been dismissed? There are several negative reviews in the TalkBacks...they haven't been deleted or removed. They are still there to see. And where are you getting this information from that "Hundreds of peopel (your error by the way) have posted their negative reviews and all have been dismissed". Listen, I can totally see why people wouldn't enjoy this movie. It is for a very niche audience. I read the negative review in the TB for my review and I totally understood where the guy was coming from. But the majority of hte complaints and accusations that are being thrown at Hostel: Part Two in these TBs are mostly false and that is what irks me.
Apologies for the spelling... by Tripman5000	Jun 5th, 2007 06:57:06 PM
....It's 1 in tne morning! When I say posted reviews-I mean "mailed in",what annoys me is that they HAVE been dismissed by Harry and Co merely because they dare to be negative.
Decent review, with some glaring flaws by team america	Jun 5th, 2007 06:57:20 PM
"That said, I was hoping for the best last night. The word on HOSTEL: PART 2 has been very hard to judge, since there seems to be so many people that hate Eli personally, and can’t seem to differentiate between their own personal agenda and his film work. Of course, that’s what they would say about me. But I know my heart and it, by no means, colored my experience Sunday night. I fucking loved HOSTEL: PART 2." Right, because anyone who poses a contrary opinion clearly doesn't "know their hearts". I remember you introduced a reader review of the Roth-produced "2001 Maniacs" in a similarly condescending manner, saying that the reviewer simply didn't have the proper frame of reference with which to approach the film, thereby rendering his opinion null and void. It's an aspect of your ego that you could really stand to work on. Despite that, I guess I've got to give you credit for composing the only (semi-)coherent defense of this film that I've read. I think it's all spurious bullshit, but whatever -- at least you're more insightful than the guy who actually made it.
eli haters by deariemeTHC	Jun 5th, 2007 07:07:19 PM
so I've been a long time reader of this site, and never really been part of a TB or nething, but I really don't understand all the hate for Eli out there. His films aren't that violent..so those of you saying this is Torture Porn are rediculous. Like Harry said...especially with part 2, your more invested in this characters so you feel even more hurt and upset when they die. Eli obviously isn't some hack, his films are really well shot and are extremely tense. Take the beginning of Hostel 2 when the girls are on the train being stocked by the locals. Just great stuff...all y'all need to back the fuck off and grow up
COMMANDO-HERE IT IS! by Tripman5000	Jun 5th, 2007 07:07:48 PM
Fox has announced a director's cut of Commando which stars Arnold Schwarzenegger. The disc will be available to own from the 18th September, and should retail at around $19.98. As well as the original theatrical cut (90 minutes), the set will include an all-new seamlessly branched unrated version (95 minutes) as envisioned by director Mark L. Lester. Each version of the film will be presented in 1.85:1 anamoprhic widescreen, along with an English Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround track. Extras will include an audio commentary on the theatrical cut by director Mark Lester, deleted scenes, a Pure Action featurette, a Let Off Some Steam featurette, and 4 photo galleries with over 150 images (Creating Commando, Domestic Bliss with John and Jenny, Kill Arnold, Kill!, and Trashing the Galleria). Bliss!
Lets face it, Harry by Ace of Wands	Jun 5th, 2007 07:09:29 PM
Lets face it, Harry forfeited the right to have any of his reviews taken seriously when he misunderstood every single facet of the Battlestar Galactica pilot- long time grudge that I can't let go of. And quoting a list of other films that have featured themes or actual incidences that appear in Hostel(s) is pretty weak: what if what's wrong now was also wrong back then?- regardless of how much people enjoy these films. It's the worrying effect that films such as these have on us- the oft quoted desensitisation- that many who have questioned Roth's work here are concerned with ( and the fact that, artistically, he does seem somewhat lacking: Terrence Malick any day thank you or if we can't talk outside the horror genre then, for me, Friedkin at his worst or Blatty on a first effort are superior to Roth in just about every way). The culture that is being inculcated by films such as Hostel- and excrement such as 24- should be of deep concern to any thinking person and just saying GROW THE FUCK UP or the catch all IT'S ONLY A MOVIE ( since when has any art been only a function of the vessel it uses to convey it's message?) is just a lazy rebuttal.
Hey Harry, pick up the phone and call Bruce by kurdt420	Jun 5th, 2007 07:10:39 PM
I'm jonesing for some more fan questions to be answered. All that build up and he only answered one batch of questions. I guess Stallone spoiled me.
The problem with these types of movies by Jack Burton	Jun 5th, 2007 07:17:12 PM
These movies are not horror. At least the slasher movies of the 70's and 80's had chases in them before the bloody, but fast, denouement. The problem with these movies, or at least my problem, is there is no hope. The first couple deaths you know are going to be messy and drawn out and there is no way the character will escape. So what is the point? This is not the money shot of Jason jamming a pitchfork through someone's head, it's methodical and drawn out. The tension comes from waiting to see what the killer is going to do, and then enduring it. Rinse and repeat. Rarely is there any kind of good payback, so watching these movies becomes singularly unpleasant. There is little hope of survival, so what is the point? This is probably why of all these recent movies I liked the Hills Have Eyes the most, because there WAS payback. I still thought it was mostly unpleasant but at least the ending was cathartic as hell. The idea that this genre is bred from Abu Ghraib, 9/11, and the war in Iraq may be true. The idea of helplessness and brutality extends from the characters on screen to the audience watching. But enough is enough, aren't we over this yet? This genre is worse than the slasher revival in the late 90's. There is really no where else to go except sicker and more twisted killings. If Hostel 2 cracks $10M I'll be surprised. I'm convinced Grindhouse suffered because mainstream moviegoers associated it with movies like Hostel. Check the box office on recent "extreme" horror movies, I'm betting this fad is done. And poor "Captivity" is coming in DOA. I'm a horror fan but this genre does nothing for me. The 70's movies of this ilk do nothing for me and the homages do nothing for me now. That being said, I still can't figure why The Devil's Rejects keeps getting lumped in with Saw and Wolf Creek style movies. Rejects has very little graphic on screen violence and what is there is reserved to be dished out to the killers. Maybe it's just the torture aspect but all that takes place off screen.
kurdt420 by HEADGEEK	Jun 5th, 2007 07:20:37 PM
Bruce sent back 5 more answers, but I've been waiting on the other half of that group of 10 questions - but it seems Bruce is really buried in the publicity for DIE HARD 4, it's tough to make time to answer questions, when that's all you do... all day long, to then take private time to do more of that, it's rare to find someone as committed as Stallone was.
to Jack Burton by deariemeTHC	Jun 5th, 2007 07:25:56 PM
I could totally agree with your arguement, especially if its waged against the first Hostel...but give the second one a chance. There IS hope, the script actually finds a pretty clever way of an escape, and there are some pretty good chase sequences in this movie. It's probably the film that Hostel (part one) should have been.
my fuck buddy, Eli Roth by HEADGEEK	Jun 5th, 2007 07:29:09 PM
just the other day we were bi-banging this chick while laughing at how we were going to fool all those talkbackers with our line of bullshit. --- REALITY BREAK --- Actually, when Eli came over we watched John Carpenter's THE THING in HD and marveled at what appeared to be a nose ring on the doctor's right nostril. FUCKING SCARY SHIT MAN! I then made Eli cry when I told him that Rob Bottin destroyed all the film sculptures that were used in the film, as he felt they had served their existence by being filmed. That and the vaseline he poured on it all began breaking down the materials. And we both agreed that THE THING, EXORCIST, AMERICAN WEREWOLF IN LONDON are our 3 fave Horror films... with THE SHINING alternating in there somewhere. ---- Break from reality back to fantasy ---- Eli's nuts taste minty fresh and they give me the super power to tongue his nostrils through his ass. BEHOLD MY AWESOME POWERS! heh.
regularfacetoht - LOST fiasco by HEADGEEK	Jun 5th, 2007 07:31:34 PM
Reg - I don't even know what happened. You see - I am waiting for LOST to hit DVD, so I don't read anything saying anything about LOST, cuz Yoko and I try to stay pure, till we can sit down and watch the whole season all at once... commercial free. I asked Quint about it, but he said it had something to do with drew, but drew took off for Hawaii and we never discussed it.
way to miss the point, Harry by IJUSTLIKEMOVIES	Jun 5th, 2007 07:36:29 PM
The non-Puritanical 'hataz' out here have been bashing Roth's meaningless use of violence, not violence.
Harry, YOU need to GROW UP. by turnedacorner	Jun 5th, 2007 07:38:31 PM
Good grief Harry, after all these years you and your friends just lost me. I guess I just moved to another demographic. There is Art and then there is Sadism, the infliction (fantasy or not) of suffering upon others for no purpose. I sincerely hope the payolla Lionsgate and the family Roth paid you to speak of film technique and European history on behalf of Hostel 2 is enough for you to vacate human empathy and embrace retardation. You really owe it to yourself to speak to Eli's father, a psychiatrist, and ask him of the Value of these types of films. Count your money along with the Hostel producers who are changing this country into a bombed-out banana republic with each puriant outing. Take a tour of this world and see real suffering is not a Kill Release or a simple horror tale. Shame on you. Hostel 2 is not cool. Now you are just another shill. If this is all really Art and Talent then when will Lionsgate and the family Roth get that Josef Mengele's Happy Times screenplay in full production. Harry. You have my forgiveness, but in the meantime I am selling my Lionsgate stock and deleting your AICN bookmark. Peace.
Point taken Harry by kurdt420	Jun 5th, 2007 07:40:16 PM
Thanks
OT: Neil Marshall, Why does he get lumped with everyone by Lovecraftfan	Jun 5th, 2007 07:43:52 PM
else. I really don't get why Neil Marshall get lumped in with the dubbed "Splat Pack". He's my favorite horror filmaker today. I know totally off topic.
My POV by thestarkiller01	Jun 5th, 2007 07:52:32 PM
Personally, I kinda liked the first Hostel. It was innovative for the time it was released. Since that time, being slapped with a couple Saw sequels and Turistas which, just by the trailer, is a rip-off of this whole new emerging sub-genre of horror films, I've kinda lost my taste for it. I love horror films, but I'm finding myself not really enjoying watching people being tortured just for the sake of watching them being tortured. I'm undecided as to whether or not I'll actually watch this movie. Eventually, maybe I will, as I did enjoy the originality of the first one. However, this "torture porn" as it's now being called, just isn't my thing. That being said, nobody here, whether you like the movie or not, can discount the interesting facts presented in this review. The kills aren't really all that inventive, but then again we're talking about an industry where everything has been done already in some way, shape, or form. What was original about the first film was its presentation. What I'm starting to decide that I DON'T like about these movies is the way the kills are drawn out. I'm a fan of quick, unexpected kills. For instance, in Friday 5, even though I hate the movie with a passion for not ACTUALLY having Jason in it, the scene where the guy chopping wood just loses it and hacks the fat kid to pieces was brilliant and unexpected. Plus, it was over in about a tenth of a second leaving more time for the movie to go kill more people and develop its lame-ass plot. In Hostel we get a 15 minute sequence where a kid has holes drilled into him and his achilles tendons cut before finally having his throat slit after being allowed to vomit several times behind a ballgag. So you see, Harry, it's not the kills themselves that people are viewing as EXCESS in these films; it's the length of time it takes for the kill to transpire. You say you like horror movies so you can root for the survivor, and I watch the genre for the very same thing. With quick kills in a horror movie, sure, we lament or cheer appropriately for the character in question's untimely demise, and we may even reflect on the horrible manner with which the character was killed, but we shouldn't be made to squirm in our seats for fifteen minutes watching that person be slowly tortured to death, and THAT I think is what is upsetting a lot of people. On the other side of that coin, however, is the fact that the conclusion to the FIRST Hostel was made that much more satisfying by the knowledge that the people Paxton was getting revenge on TRULY deserved every ounce of his rage, and watching every second of torture completely contributed to the sweet taste of his revenge. Take this post as you will, fellow TBers, but before you all start with the inevitable "if you don't like it, don't watch it" responses, remember that I said I DID enjoy the first one. I'm just kinda burned out on the whole sub-genre itself. I may or may not watch it, and if I do, it'll be out of curiosity. Specifically, the curiosity generated by Harry as to how the survivor of this film could possibly escape in the end.
Wow, someone's defensive here. by The Artist FKA Vesuvio	Jun 5th, 2007 08:00:44 PM
Never seen this much of Harry in any talkback. Not even in the ones bashing his other pimp, Michael Bay. Anyway, fuck Hostel. Good premise ruined by the total lack of competence or talent of its writer/director. Some fellas should really consider starting on a new website, just for talkbacking. This way everybody could just tell Harry & the Mighty Dicklickin' Gang to go fuck themselves. You might love to write your insights, and love to doing so for your buddies, Harry, but they're not what keeps this site rolling when there are so many others better than this one. Talkback is.
Is the WORKPRINT torrent a different.. by voxmortis	Jun 5th, 2007 08:07:02 PM
..film to what you're going on about? Cos that was very disappointing when I watched it last night. And if Eli thinks that chopping a head off and kicking it around is scary, then he's believing his own hype.
Jeeze..its just a fucking movie fellas. Eli Roth rocks. by Mike_D	Jun 5th, 2007 08:07:08 PM
In my opinion. Just because you use a lot of curse words and go on about shit that you dont know about doesnt make it any more true (ex. ELI ROTH IS A FUCKING HACK WITH NO REAL CHARACTERS BLAH BLAH). He seems to be doing pretty well for himself and I personally enjoy his movies. So keep bitching, this movie will rake in some good dough.
Mike by IJUSTLIKEMOVIES	Jun 5th, 2007 08:11:20 PM
Ticket sales don't make Roth a great director or Hostel Part Duh any good. It just means there are a lot of idiots with bad taste willing to part with their money.
FAVE severed head scene by voxmortis	Jun 5th, 2007 08:19:27 PM
Fright Night - the bowling ball / severed head gag :)
To Harry Knowles and his Hostel review... by Jonny_Dr_Thunder	Jun 5th, 2007 08:21:19 PM
Harry... I have to hand it to you man... this was a fucking awesome review and a great statement as a horror fan. This is the kind of review from you that I really miss. I remember 4 or 5 years ago when these types of reviews would pop up from time to time and I'd really get a kick out of your enthusiasm and your joy from experiencing this kind of thing. It really shows here. Whether you're friends with Roth or not, it doesn't matter, man, this is a really well-written piece. I'm saying this because I'm completely on board with you on the SURVIVAL ideology. It's true. It's so true, and I'm delighted that you mentioned "THE THING," because that's where it hits the hardest for me. I remember thinking the ENTIRE time watching that film for the first time: "Damn... these guys are seriously fucking screwed. HOW are they going to get out of this?" It totally became the drive. Damn, I totally agree. Again, great review man; you should really do these more often. Take care, brother.
I JUST GOT OFF THE PHONE WITH MY 7000 MYSPACE FRIENDS.. by tehgreekhammer	Jun 5th, 2007 08:21:57 PM
AND THEY ALL SAY ELI ROTH AND ALL HIS FILMS SUCK BALLS.
Way too much spoilers in this review by aron	Jun 5th, 2007 08:26:31 PM
Just as well I saw the workprint before reading this otherwise I would be pissed. I thought this movie was alright, first one was better. I have no intention of seeing this with an audience, I'll just wait for the unrated version on dvd which they will probably release in Oct.
the myspace friends comment by IJUSTLIKEMOVIES	Jun 5th, 2007 08:29:51 PM
was almost as laughable as all this HD-DVD nonsense. Harry, how do you expect that type of shit to go over? Dude, you really have to go with digital phone service.
hostel; a disgusting movie without redeeming features by themagus	Jun 5th, 2007 08:33:40 PM
i don't get it. an hour and a half of watching people getting tortured in horrifying ways? this is entertainment? i don't mind violence, i loved Sin City and Irreversible but those movies had points....Hostel and all these god-damned Saw movies are just pornography for snuff fanciers. i've looked and really can't see anything worthwhile in these movies.
Harry by SnakesOnABicycle	Jun 5th, 2007 08:41:22 PM
You say these are "fresh" characters... off of what fucking dilapidated turnip truck are you comparing the term FRESH to? I know I've never seen the drunken slutty party girl or the dorky ugly duckling... but oh wait! An heiress, MOTHERFUCKING mentioned ONCE, as a plot out to allow her to escape in the cheapest fucking way. It would have been better, and less of a shitbag cheat, if she just started flying. Maybe she mentions she likes magic in reel one, and then just before the security guards are about to blow her and her penis hostage away, she throws down one of those smoke bombs, and when it clears... CADABRA! she's gone! Or fuck, why not just perform a Ben Kenobi? And why the fuck and how the fuck did the boss get down there so quick to negotiate with her? Oh that's right, MOVIE MAGIC. And as far as these girls being superior to their Hostel male counterparts, I think you're being dumber than usual. The fact that we hated those ugly American guys WAS THEIR ONLY REDEEMING ORIGINAL QUALITY. The fact that the biggest prick of them all lives was the biggest "twist" a horror movie has had in years. And to cheapen ANY investment we had in the original movie, by making his death off-screen in the sequel, was about the stupidest/laziest thing Roth could have done. Which is why you forgot to mention it. I know I know, you were too enraptured in all these highly original female characters to notice anything bad in the film: like say, for instance, the cinematography. Never before have I seen less effort put into the placement of a camera, or the boring, ugly fucking muted tones that make the whole thing look like it's all taking place on the same shitty set. Not once was there any tension created by the camera, or the framing of a shot. And that's pretty fucking sad, especially when you’re filming in a bunch of muted toned rooms of TORTURE.
I saw this today by nycguy	Jun 5th, 2007 08:42:48 PM
I actually thought this was pretty good, actually one of the better movies I've seen recently. I'm not a big horror fan, but I don't really see this as a horror movie - it (along with Hostel part I) is really a drama, with some severe gore. Not perfect, but I even liked the characters in the first one, everyone knows at least one of those guys. In this one, I was most interested in (and wished he's have fleshed-ahem-out more) was the stories of the bastards that pay to go to the factory. What kind of person would PAY for the chance to kill someone? Now THAT's interesting. Again, there is some gore, but it's relegated to the end of the movie and the tension and release is really great. So there! Oh, and as a gay guy...Eli Roth is hot.
I disagree with Harry on the "ugly Americans" comment by DarthTarter	Jun 5th, 2007 08:45:21 PM
I DO agree that one of the complaints of the first movie is lack of likable characters and/or characters with no development. But the three main guys (let's not forget Oli was from Iceland I belive so only 2 Americans) were not all jerks. In fact that is one thing that bugged me was that Paxton, the asshole, was the one to get away. While Josh, not quite as bad but no saint, was the one who got really fucked. Maybe the role-reversal could be took as original (such as if the pot-smoking whore from a F13th movie lived while a sweet, innocent virgin gets slaughtered) but it was part of the reason I felt a detract from the film. The wrong guy died, and the wrong guy lived.
What did Harry's nephew think of it? by theBigE	Jun 5th, 2007 08:45:43 PM
Did he bump chests with another fat kid? Did he send a message to his 7000 myspace friends?
Harry, You Not Only Missed The Point... by Rebeck3	Jun 5th, 2007 08:58:07 PM
Of most of the talkback critcism (I could not care less about Eli Roth as a person, I don't know him from Adam), you also missed an opportunity to calmly engage with Torture Porn's detractors and TRY to see things from their point of view. Instead you just gave a big FUCK YOU to us all - you don't give a shit what we think, and we're just wrong and stupid and not grown up, etc. The last being so ironic since it's YOUR immaturity that shows in your love for this piece of shit. You don't see horror movies to see people get away - give me a break! - you see them for the coooooool kills, just like your buddy Eli admits himself. I'm sorry, that is such a disingenuous lameass defense. And then your other defense is that it's all been done before in other movies. Oh yeah? So you're admitting Hostel is derivative crap?? And is that why you and all the AICN staff (so to speak) is spooing their jeans over these "kills", because they're all so old-hat and we've seen them a million times?? Which is it: make up your mind. Is Roth a hack or a fresh original genius? He's a hack of course, but I'm surprised you admit it so easily. Oh yeah, people bathe in other people's blood as they squirm in pain above them in LOTS of movies. Let me see: ORDINARY PEOPLE... THE BIG CHILL... TWO scenes of dick chopping in AMERICAN GRAFFITI. Another lame fucking defense. Like someone else said, just say you like watching people die slow painful deaths. It's cooooool. Aint it cooooooool? I have respect for what you've done with this site, but you really have no idea how out of step you are with most people when it comes to this kind of violence. But hey, you don't care. It's your world and we're all just lucky to bask in your greatness.
Harry, I am very disappointed with your defense of Roth by Bronx Cheer	Jun 5th, 2007 08:58:40 PM
when I have seen many other Talkbacks that begged for your participation and you conspicuously kept your Black Box out of the discussion. I'm referring to TBs wherein one of your contributors wrote something inflammatory and insulting and the TBers literally begged you to chime in and you kept completely out of the discussion. Then this TB comes up, and you seem driven to respond to every third comment. Forget for the moment that this "review" was nothing but a condescending apology for your pal's film, but I marvel at your priorities. You're certainly welcome to hue to whatever principles you choose to defend, but for god's sake, man, have a backbone when it comes to topics that actually mean something to a vast number of your readers. The next time one of your writers drops an incendiary phrase on us, I know we can count on your deafening silence. But when one of your buddies makes a film that you feel the need to defend out of the gate, I know we can expect your passionate involvement in the Talkback. Oh, and it's "hear" not "here."
"just deserves"? by JackIsLost	Jun 5th, 2007 09:02:22 PM
Harry, you are fricking dumb. Try...just desserts, maybe?
Has anyone seen the commercials saying "It's more... by JackIsLost	Jun 5th, 2007 09:03:54 PM
than just a movie!" Ugh. Please. It's less.
Grow the fuck up? Seriously, you realize that's a funny by Bronx Cheer	Jun 5th, 2007 09:06:34 PM
line to toss out at people you disagree with. People who shout "grow the fuck up" are themselves acting like children, as they are afraid to actually engage in debate. "I don't like what you're saying, so shut up!" is effectively what you're saying with that sort of jab. And one last thing before I go stick my head in the oven...you admonish Roth's critics to grow up, yet you prove you are "someone" by bragging that you have 7000 MySpace friends!? Do you have any idea what a ninny that makes you sound like? Forget for just one moment that MySpace is for teenyboppers, but they are not all really your friends. Each one is a person who clicked a mouse, and then you clicked yours, and voila! You have a new friend! Holy crap, that was the funniest and saddest thing I have ever read. Seriously, Harry, grow the fuck up. See, I can do it too!
dcut75 - when you saw The Excorcist by Movietool	Jun 5th, 2007 09:08:28 PM
Were you rooting for the demon to win? If so - yes, you might be a satanist. Seriosly, my point was not that if you like Hostel, you're someone who wants to sadistically torture someone. I'm just saying that based on the reviews I've read (mostly here) I feel I have every right to agree with the "torture porn" label, even though I haven't seen it. I made no judgements about the people who enjoyed "Hostel."
JackIsLost, it used to be "just desserts" but... by Bronx Cheer	Jun 5th, 2007 09:10:42 PM
he ate them all, and now all he's got left are "just deserves." (Harry, you had that coming. Anyone who tries to justify gore as entertainment as you do by using the argument that these scenes have a historical basis has just absolutely lost his freakin' mind. Now, seriously, I have to go kill myself. I can't believe I have wasted so much of my time on this fucking site. The only thing that makes this site worthwhile is Mori, and the Talkbackers.)
caligula castration by ScottLecter	Jun 5th, 2007 09:11:24 PM
Not sure if this was mentioned already as well, but let's not forget the very similar castration scene in CALIGULA. He even feeds it to the dogs in that film as well. Overall, I was impressed with Hostel 2, and I can't wait to enjoy it with an opening weekend crowd.
Spaz by Rebeck3	Jun 5th, 2007 09:17:42 PM
If you're the average Hostel lover, then you make my argument for me.
LOL by Rebeck3	Jun 5th, 2007 09:23:06 PM
Dude - how many times do I have to say this? I don't KNOW and I don't give one shit about Eli Roth, I'm talking about films and Torture Porn. I would say the same thing if he was Joe Smith. You really are a Roth family member, aren't you?
Spaz and Rebeck3, just kiss and get it over with. by Bronx Cheer	Jun 5th, 2007 09:23:53 PM
The sexual tension is palpable.
I Think Spaz... by Rebeck3	Jun 5th, 2007 09:26:36 PM
Has sexual tension with the WORLD. Just no actual sex.
CRUEL TALKBACKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! by THE KNIGHT	Jun 5th, 2007 09:27:34 PM
Why must everyone who insult Harry, call out his weight... You guys sound like a bunch of jocks back in High School.. It's pretty sad ya know... Film is subjective... Just because he likes it, doesn't mean you're gonna like it... He's friends with the Director, and he's tryna give him a little publicity... I'm sure you guys would do the same in his position... Although I'm not sure if he should review the film just because they're friends... I think Harry would regain a lot of credibility back if he posted a TB choosing to not review the film because of his close association with the director... Just my own personal thoughts here...
Ever hear about somethin' called CONTEXT, Harry? by Nate Champion	Jun 5th, 2007 09:37:01 PM
Ya know... the idea that castration in Little Children might not be equivocable to the castration in this movie, or the other 130-odd movies you pulled out of your ass from IMDB, because of the tone, presentation, point, etc? In order to debate the idea of violence in this movie you can't just say that X movie also had a severed head or whatever so that automatically gives Roth a pass... and while I agree with the basic premise of your argument, the lack of acknowledging the context of Roth's violence completely defeats what you're trying to say. I certainly doubt that Jonathan Demme was asking people on the way out of Silence of the Lambs what their favorite kill was. Sorry, but this review is like listening to a 9-year-old lecturing the Supreme Court on civil rights... yuh talkin' out yo' ass, foo.
Liking Hostel=/=Liking Torture by MaxG	Jun 5th, 2007 09:38:34 PM
I absolutely agree with Harry here. When I saw Hostel 2, I cringed during the torture scenes. The Mrs. Bathory scene was enough for me to look away from the screen, mostly because of Heather Matarazzo's performance. For me, those scenes in horror movies serve to enforce your anger towards the people doing the torture, and your hope to see someone get away. There's a reason people are really liking the end of Hostel 2, and it's not just because we're all gore-nuts who like the bloody de-cockification. It's because after the tension, and the intense tortue sequences, you get to see someone escape.
Wow by Your Moms Box	Jun 5th, 2007 09:38:56 PM
I've been reading this site for years. Never much of a talkbacker though. But I read the talkbacks all the time, and I gotta say Harry, it doesnt look like people are being "haters" when you've spent more time posting on this review than you have on probably 25 of your reviews combined, all to defend your boy, and attack anyones critisism of his work. It starts to look more and more like the uninformed TB is in actuality holding two fingers on the pulse of the issue. I can give two company fucks about Eli Roth. I find him to be the Michael Bay of the horror genre. Totally over the top and unneccesary, but every once in a while, a shit load of fun. That being said, what hes doing is not reinventing the wheel or curing cancer, so sit back, enjoy his friendship; enjoy his work. But dont use your site as a conduit to over-rate the bullshit out of him and jam him down the readers throats. Oh, and by the way....talkbackers are what keep your site alive. 75% of the time they are more entertaining than the reviews this site posts. Keep that in mind the next time you decide who you are going to write for.
Harry and talkbacks.. by gotilk	Jun 5th, 2007 09:43:47 PM
It's great to see you in here with us, first of all. I really think people need to relax with their vitriol for Roth. I think it could backfire on them, eventually. We're becoming a nation of politically correct, coddled, prudish bores. There's nothing at all progressive about demanding artists self-censor, no matter the content. (or the intent) Like I've said elsewhere, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. Unless you want an endless stream of TV show re-makes, sequels and classic film remakes that fall of their faces, I suggest you give people like Roth a chance. He's made original films with original ideas, even if some of those ideas feel disgusting to some of you. But let's face at least one fact head-on. There's nothing much new, shock-wise about the "things" that happen in his films. The difference is, I think in a lot of cases, is that he triggers something in many of you that pisses you off. And instead of applauding his evocation, you strike back at him and call him a hack. Truth is, he worked magic on you and you feel uncomfortable with that because of the subject matter. That's ok. At least he knows, I'm sure, that he did what he set out to do. If he didn't, there wouldn't be so many emotions, negative and positive, surrounding his films. See you in the front row.
Harrys seems to think... by tehgreekhammer	Jun 5th, 2007 09:43:59 PM
that were going to buy the argument that his site isnt bought and paid for by the movie studios because "there isnt one banner ad on my site..." Well Hey you big giant dipshit when you have 6 friggin GLOWING articles on your website, that kind of says something other than we simply like this film... this weekend cant get here soon enough for me to see how badly this piece of shit bombs.
I'll wait for the DVD by TVguy4566	Jun 5th, 2007 09:48:26 PM
Not looking to get caught up in the war between Pro and Anti Eli Roth fans, but I guess I would fall into the Anti side. I think he comes up with great ideas, but I guess his execution really doesn't do it for me. I was bored for most of Cabin Fever. I thought Hostel had its moments, but overall I guess I was expecting more because of the hype. I guess that kind turned me off of rushing out to see Hostel 2. I hope this great last ten minutes doesn't have to do with the rich girl having Daddy issues in the end. People have been hyping how rich she is on this board like it means something and knowing who the bad guys were in first movie (a bunch of really rich guys paying to experience what it like to torture and kill people), I hope we don't get a "American chick we kidnapped from the hostel and are in the process of dismembering, I am your father" moment. Personally, I already can see that coming from a mile away and all I have seen are the trailers and read this review. I hope I am just being cynical, but if that is the big last ten minutes I think the last ten minutes of Shrek the Third would be more interesting. I guess I am going into this with low expectations because I had such high expections on the last one and was burned.
Regarding Roth by gusterup	Jun 5th, 2007 09:50:37 PM
I have no problem with Eli Roth as a filmmaker, if he wants to start making them. "Cabin Fever" was more enjoyable than "Hostel" or "Hostel Part II", but most of them are just plain bad. Had those films been released in the 1980's, they would have been bombs and would have been forgotten about -- probably rediscovered -- but forgotten about for a long time. His films have NO PURPOSE. They have NO PLOT. If Eli Roth was making films that had the least bit of relevance -- to any one or anything -- then I could give him some credit. And I wonder how many negative reviews we'll see for this film posted on this site? It's going to be one sided, that's for sure. And this series is doing just what the "Saw" franchise did -- ditching story for excess blood and gore. Whoring it out for the 'faux horror fans'.
Rotten Tomatoes is a poor judge by TVguy4566	Jun 5th, 2007 09:57:24 PM
I'm not saying that most critics or fans won't love this film, but Rotten Tomatoes is far too liberal with their ripe tomatoes at times. For example,the Urban Cinefile review gets a ripe tomato eventhough he gives the film a B- and overall the review talks about how it is a flawed film that reguritated the first film and had cardboard cutout characters.
And another thing by Your Moms Box	Jun 5th, 2007 10:01:44 PM
Whats this shit about Heather Matarazzo getting naked? What kind of sick fuck is Eli Roth anyway??? The gore, blood and entrails I can take. But I do not want to see Seabuscuit with tits hanging upside down, exposing her pepperoni nipples and winter bush for all to see. If Roth wants people watching his movies to vomit, I think he may have pulled it off.
why diss Oceans 13, big guy? by BadMrWonka	Jun 5th, 2007 10:04:07 PM
it's got 3 Oscar winning Actors, and an Oscar Winning director. all the major stars in it took pay cuts to be in it, as they have for all of them. let's not diss a Soderburgh movie just because people are hating on Roth. it's like dissing Filet Mignon because people make fun of your pop tarts. it's Steven Soderburgh vs. cocks being cut off...really big guy?
Spazatronic 2000, have you actually read the reviews? by TVguy4566	Jun 5th, 2007 10:12:28 PM
Of the six reviews on Rotten Tomatoes, four were really positve and two were really mixed. Besides, there are only six reviews and none are from major publications except for IGN if you call IGN a major publication.
Defenders of Hostel don't understand that it's not... by rbatty024	Jun 5th, 2007 10:14:11 PM
the violence that's troubling, but rather the power dynamic and the way the film invites the audience to see a moral equivilency for the torture. Perhaps the sequel is different, but the above review does not tackle this critique and I have yet to see a Hostel defender try. The reason people object to these films goes completely over the Roth Lovers' collective heads.
Ocean's 11 was great, Ocean 12 sucked by TVguy4566	Jun 5th, 2007 10:15:36 PM
Clooney and others have gone on record admitting the shittiness of Ocean's 12 and have vowed to make Ocean's 13 closer to Ocean's 11. In fairness to them, how many filmmakers and/or actors admit their box office hit sucked and wanted to correct the mistake. Not many. And Rocky V wasn't a hit so don't be bringing up Sly Stallone.
For Harry's sake I hope it's released on HD DVD and not by Whtshark	Jun 5th, 2007 10:16:47 PM
Blu-Ray, that would total suck for him if it were.
sorry harry by El Borak	Jun 5th, 2007 10:17:43 PM
but i don't agree with your opinion. too much exposure to this stuff can deaden your senses.
Can someone sum up the "lost talkback fiasco"? by BitterMan23	Jun 5th, 2007 10:18:29 PM
i missed all that, as i dont usually read any Lost articles on this site due to spoilers (tho i did make a few in the finale TB but didnt have the time to read everything else). so what happened??
The worst way to argue the merits of a film is by... by rbatty024	Jun 5th, 2007 10:20:47 PM
attacking another film like Ocean's 13. It shows an inability to promote Hostel's merits just using the film at hand.
Ocean's 13 and Bruce Willis by Your Moms Box	Jun 5th, 2007 10:24:00 PM
I liked Ocean's 11. Alot. I thought it was a clever caper flick, light years ahead of its predecessor, which seemed to just be Frank Sinatra and his friends hamming it up for the camera and enjoying a vacation together. Ocean's 12....well, see my thoughts on Sinatra and Co. original Oceans. 13 looks like Soderberg, Clooney, Pitt et all want to say "Sorry for fucking around on that last one...here...oh, and by the way, we've added Al Pacino. Amends?" As for Bruno, face it guys, he doesnt give a fuck. Stallone NEEDED the publicity, the buzz. Bruce Willis has made film after film after film consistently for the past 20 years. The last time Stallone had a hit was like in 92 with Demolition Man, and the last time he was applauded for a performance was in 97 with Cop Land. I'd run to my laptop and answer questions if anyone had a remote interest in my latest project after 15 years of sucking too. Bruce Willis on the other hand, can say "Fuck em. They're lucky I answered the 10 I answered". I cant believe I had to type all that out.
They weren't all positive by TVguy4566	Jun 5th, 2007 10:35:16 PM
Two were mixed. That means they had as many negative things to say as positve. Besides, there are six reviews from sites like Pop Syndicate, Cinemonkey, Urban Cinefiles, EmanuelLevy.com, and IGN Movies. I don't consider any of these sites places I would go to get my reviews. Even if they were, six review aren't enough for a good sense of how the general public is thinking. Some the smalltime reviewers go out of their way to be overly flattering to movie in hopes that the studio will quote them in critics reviews trailers that usually come out a week or two after the movie opens.
Over our heads? by gotilk	Jun 5th, 2007 10:45:04 PM
The criticism of Roth's films is just over our collective heads, huh? You're going to have to do MUCH better than that. Try explaining this elusive, unfathomable criticism that we cannot grasp because our brains just are not large enough, big guy. What part of popular culture, education or morality did we miss that made it impossible for us to grasp this magical criticism? I call shenanigans with that one. I've heard that crap before from moralists, but it's rarely backed up with even a tiny bit of explanation or reality. Disagree if you want, but don't come at us with some kind of "mental high ground" bullshit. It's pseudo-intellectual clap-trap at best.
Defend, Harry! Defend! Good Boy! by genro	Jun 5th, 2007 10:47:12 PM
The movie is shit and Roth is easily the most overrated untalent working, which explains Harry's love affair. Knowles, you haven't been fuck-right once about a film in eons.
That blond wasn't likable at all, Harry. by OBSD	Jun 5th, 2007 10:48:08 PM
She was a right cunt, she was. Free spirit my fat ass. She was a nasty bitch who was a female version of the Jay Hernandez character from the first one. I actually digged this movie quite a bit as a great continuation of the first one. Was a bit bummed that Jay ate in in the first 10 minutes, and even more bummed that Harry didn't give one mention the plotline of the two would be "hunters". Especially since the guy with glasses seemed to be a stone's throw away form Paul Rudd's character in Knocked Up, not in humor prehaps, but certinally in being fed up with his cunt of a wife and not knowing how to express it healthily.
My favorite part of the review... by Bones	Jun 5th, 2007 10:49:41 PM
My favorite part of the review... "There are critics out there, that don't deserve mention, that have decided that Eli’s film is a deprived act that has officially pushed our society to the edge of oblivion… and to that, I have to say… GROW THE FUCK UP!" Grow the Fuck up? Seriously? About a Horror movie? The giggling retarded cousin of the film world -- THAT Horror genre? Okay, Harry. Whatever. I guess you liked your friend's movie--Message Received. And another thing, why would criticism not deserve mention? In the last few days, I have been trying to find out why people like movies like this, with all the real horror and suffering that exists in the world. According to you--it is to watch someone survive. But what about the Grand Guignol films where no one survives? Do you not like those films? Like House of 1000 Corpses and the like? The Audition? The Vanishing? Well, that Vanishing is something different--it was a great film (the original, not the American abortion of a film). Hostel II may be a great film, Harry, but I won't see it. Maybe my suspension of disbelief is too great. I see faces on flyers stapled on telephone poles and I don't want to imagine them flayed open so people can bathe in their blood, no matter what the historical reference is. If someone you cared about disappeared--would you? Would you be so cavalier if it was family? And it is my right to NOT want to see it--doesn't make me wrong, nor does it make you wrong to see it. I might have called some folks some names over the last few says--and for that I am sorry...that is just passion. But, I will continue to ask people why they like it. I really want to know.
I second "shenanigans." by Bronx Cheer	Jun 5th, 2007 10:49:54 PM
Shenanigans it is, then.
The fact all the reviews aren't yet is my point by TVguy4566	Jun 5th, 2007 10:56:27 PM
For every high brow critic, there is probably an Eli Roth fanboy critic who would love what he does even if he had a movie where he sat there and read the telephone book for two hours. I am not going to be swayed by six reviews especially from critics that I have no clue where they come from from a movie taste point. You are the one who is pointing to Rotten Tomatoes as the measuring stick for whether this is a good movie or not. In two or three days, the Freshness rating isn't going to be anywhere near 100%, but by then the rating is irrelevant in your eyes because high brow critics won't get it and apparently Roth fan boys are the only ones who can objectively judge the movie. You really can't have it both ways. Some reviewer will never get a movie like this. Others will get it and love it. And others will get it and think it is complete and utter trash. I doubt the reviewing community are going to dub this the Godfather of horror movies which means there will be a fair share of critics who like horror movies of similiar style and gorriness as Hostel 2 and will hate the movie.
The fact that it's troubling... by veebeeyes	Jun 5th, 2007 10:58:41 PM
and invites the audience to see a moral equivalency is largely the reason why I respect the film so much on moral grounds (even if it was sort of amateurishly made). The film raises serious and uncomfortable moral questions about human nature, and that's why I respect the hell out of Eli Roth's intentions even if I think that the movie was poorly made. The whole power dynamic SHOULD be troubling. I mean, Jesus Christ. If you watch Die Hard, you appreciate the story and the direction, but on some level you're going to the movies to watch people die. The exact same thing applies to Hostel. And that's largely precisely what Hostel is criticizing. Hostel was largely commenting on the AUDIENCE, and I think that's something that is definitely not done enough in horror. It raised uncomfortable questions that the audiences of these kinds of movies should damn well be asking itself, and I'm not sure that I'm pleased with the reaction. There was this one fucking great scene in the movie where this guy is torturing Paxton and Paxton is screaming begging for his life. Then the torturer mutters something in German (or something), at which point Paxton starts begging for his life in German. The torturer clearly gets uncomfortable and exits the room. He then returns, puts a ballgag in Paxton's mouth, and continues torturing him. That reminds me a LOT of some of the posts I've seen in these talkbacks.
total Freak Show... by datachasm	Jun 5th, 2007 11:00:23 PM
who the fuck would want to buy Hostel on DVD? and watch it again and again? some sick pervo, thats who! its a snuff film... and this coming from someone who totally loves the original Dawn of the Dead, which can be a real ball shocker more so than a horror film. that they are making Hostel 2 shocks me... when will we see Cleaver 2?
regularface... by OBSD	Jun 5th, 2007 11:01:20 PM
Holy shit, that really happened? That's fucking hilarious! I read some of that original talkback, but I stopped reading as soon as I knew I wasn't going to get any real spoilers and went to a site that had them up. I never thought twice about the shitstorm that happened afterwords. If what you say is true and the spoilers appeared everywhere after that, then how could Harry miss them? He says that he dosen't read the Lost talkbacks, but they spilled onto other talkbacks, right? It seems like everybody is passing the buck on this one and it will ultimately be blamed on the talkbackers, as usual. Please don't ban me. I've already been banned once for pointing out to Hercules that he might do himself a better service if he linked stuff that has something to do with his specific articles to Amazon than if he just throws a bunch of random shit on the screen in hopes that he'll make some scratch.
My apologies, that was some poor word choice. by rbatty024	Jun 5th, 2007 11:07:49 PM
What I meant to say was that most defenders merely state that other films have been just as violent when the violence itself is not what people object to. There are at least two things I find wrong with the film. First, the power dynamic between the torturer and the victim is eerily similar to rape (hence torture porn). The victim is completely powerless and the torturer is free to abuse the individual's body how he pleases, it's an obvious rape anology. In a more sophisticated film this could be dealt with in an interesting way, but Eli Roth just doesn't have the talent to do so. The secon problem, which is tied to the first, is the strange kind of moral equivilency in the film where because the dumb frat kids used women then they should be used and there we have the simplistic "moral of the story." This alows the viewer to say to himself, "the frat kids deserved it so it's okay for me to enjoy the torture." Roth makes the torture easy, instead of something complex. He lets the viewer off the hook. This is exacerbated by the fact that I did not care one bit about the shallow frat boy characters. I, for one, was hardly rooting for them to escape, I just wanted them to die so the movie could end. So, it's not the violence that's the problem, it's how the violence is treated and an inability to create characters we care about as well as a thoughtless and tacked on "moral of the story."
when did the stars/creators apologize for Oceans 12? by BadMrWonka	Jun 5th, 2007 11:15:01 PM
I heard clooney say something about the franchise "going out strong", but I never heard anything about "apologizing for Ocean's 12 sucking". anyone got a link? or just spouting off...?
BadMrWonka by Your Moms Box	Jun 5th, 2007 11:22:45 PM
I didnt say they apologized at all. I said it seemed like they were with this latest installment. Harry referred to it as an unnecessary sequel to an unecessary sequel, and I was saying that it seems more like an amendment to what the cast knows was a mediocre effort last time out. Wasnt quoting Clooney or any of the cast/creators. Just making a personal observation.
it is the talkbacks that bring me back to this site by lloydfromentourage	Jun 5th, 2007 11:37:50 PM
i dont even look at the content much at all every time i want to say im never coming back again i think about has a beer and cheets on his wife, fat kids chest bumping, michel bay denis. i see a movie title in a headline and want to read the talkback to see how people are reacting. that's what brings me to aicn. harry still gets his pageviews and advertising $$ because we keep coming back for it more and more. i bet if you did an informal poll you'd find most readers come for the talkbacks, even if they are mean and fucked up and nerdy.
I LIKE ROTH by Derek Wildstarr	Jun 5th, 2007 11:42:09 PM
Why the disdain for a young creative dude who's trying to make old school gorefests? please explain. Cabin Fever had blood splattered infections everywhere, people here act like it was Herbie: Fully Loaded. He then drops Hostel on us after the success of the SAW films and gains notoriety for making movies that are, literally, painfully to watch. But profitable as a motherfucker worlwide. Like it or not he's making some edgy stuff that i'd watch any day over The Grudge 6. Why the hatred? I saw the making of Hostel on DVD and thought Eli seemed like a cool horror geek that was loving what he was doing and really trying to make something fresh while having a good time. Whats the big deal. I dont get Harry bashing the Oceans movies at all for the fact that Soderberg, to me, is a god. Lastly, there IS something to the whole "you dont like it, make a movie yourself." As a fledgling filmmaker myself i can tell you that making a successful movie has nothing to do with throwing millions at it. Catwomen and Hollywood Homicide have proved that. Anybody who says "give me millions and i'll make a movie" doesnt understand that its not that simple. Roth made Cabin fever on the cheap, he got investors and all, but je split the profits with the crew. Sounds like a cool thing to do if you ask me.
Yea Lloyd by Your Moms Box	Jun 5th, 2007 11:52:24 PM
Thats what I was talking about in my earlier post. I think I've "talked back" about 10 times on this site in the past, 5 of which are on this thread. Even still, Harry's comments about not writing for TBers and only 5% of his readership coming from Talkbacks really struck a nerve with me. Im actually suprised theres not more of an uproar on this site from the regulars of these boards. I took it as a slap in the face, and I barely post. You make a site for fans, for nerds like yourself to react, review, and discuss film. The nerds (with utmost affection) unite, and AICN takes off, a concept that has since been copied all over the net. Fast foward 10 years and your acting as though the people that come here account for nothing, because you were writing for yourself and your friends the whole time. Take the talk backs away Harry. Since they are only 5% of your readership. Surely whatever accounts for the other 95% will keep the site afloat. Seriously. Do it. Suspend TalkBack for a month. I'm curious to see what kind of traffic this site will get. I hope you remembered to gas up for your Ego Trip.
Thanks for that, rbatty024. by gotilk	Jun 6th, 2007 12:21:52 AM
However, I beg to differ. While I just said that you accused us of being too dumb to get the criticism, I take the risk of doing almost the same thing by now saying you give many critics too much credit by assuming they will take even a moment to look beyond the raw, visceral nature of the acts themselves. They may feign understanding based on their pre-conceptions, but they aren't really examining the film itself.I think the violence itself IS what people object to and they simply do not take the time to look beyond what's happening in any real sense. A friend of mine put it in few words, and I'm not sure I agree, but it's closer to the truth. He said that with the first film Roth was saying.. "here's these guys, on the road with the sole purpose of exploiting people for pleasure. Then, they meet some people who through their actions basically say YOU THINK YOU KNOW WHAT EXPLOITATION IS? WE'LL SHOW YOU!" He was saying that that's what Roth was stating with the film as a whole. And when you really look at it, the audience is left to question degrees. Many people are very uncomfortable with grey areas, especially in places where the emerging culture is reserved, fundamentalist or conservative. Is it always exploitation if one person is compensated and another is pleasured? Is all exploitation bad? Is it neccesary in order to maintain a lifestyle or a culture? Should we stop coal mining because miners are paid less than they deserve, based on the risk? Does it serve the coal miner or his family by making the cost of coal so high that his own cost of living is affected? What level of exploitation are we comfortable with? Is it ok if we insulate ourselves from the exploitation that creates many of the products we consume? Where is the line drawn and for what reasons? I was left in the first Hostel with a feeling that no matter how much we disliked the kids, it was still wrong to do what was done to them. By making us dislike the characters, the message is driven home much more effectively. Was this a conscious decision on Roth's part? You'd have to ask him. But I believe it was. If we rooted for those guys, we'd be left with no grey areas and in my opinion "torture porn". Here's a group of innocent kids being tortured for 2 hours, good fun. Right? Wrong. It's the fact that they are not perfect, not well defined "good guys" or innocents that makes the film more than just what people are calling torture porn. There is no hero at the end, really. Just people who survive. To address the rape analogy, I'm confused. Would it be better if the "bad people" in the film treated the victims in the story with more respect? Isn't all violent crime about control and inflicted pain? You could compare almost any serial killer's (portrayed in film or seen in reality) modus operendi to a rape. Even the soldier overpowered by and killed by a much larger german soldier in Saving Private Ryan could be applied to this analogy. But was it a rape fantasy on film? No, but it WAS a raw and visceral moment that really stuck with me after the film. It was very uncomfortable to watch the brutality of that moment. And while all of this is happening we see another scared soldier clutching a gun and paralyzed by fear to do anything to save him. We are raised to believe in blacks and whites, and it can be very uncomfortable (but important) when we are forced to think of things in degrees. But if it's presented to us as the "big evil" killing the "loved, powerless innocent" we're somehow ok with it in the sense that it's not criticized as pornographic or exploitation. But that's insulting to me as a viewer and I think not really accurate. I think much of the criticism of Roth's films IS based on the acts themselves, with people justifying their criticism after the fact, in pure denial. It's ok to not want to view his films based on what you know will happen in them, but be ok with it and don't insult our intelligence by trying to intellectualize it.
You quoted your myspace friends number? Did you??????? by Particularly Hard Vato	Jun 6th, 2007 12:46:45 AM
Harry- I just don't get you. You toss around these high brow attitudes about film making while praising someone that has made a film That is graphically more violent and gory than most films before it. It pushed the standards lower- wow! Shocking! talented! Other more talented film makers did not produce a film like Hostel or Hostel 2 because they- LIKE MOST OF YOUR AUDIENCE HERE- have higher standards of decency. I don't care how you package you opinions Harry- watching some chick get cut open while some lady bathes in her blood and enjoying it is sick, twisted and perverse. I don't give a fuck about the artistic merit, historical accurracy, or cinematic BS you use to frame it- it simply is perverse. There are talk backers here that believe this, there are talk backers here that think Eli is a shitty film maker because they do not believe he has skills, and there are talk backers that don't like the fact that your site is promoting him as a main stream film maker to the extent that you are. This should show you something- not all of your audience enjoys these kinds of movies. You are losing your audience Harry- seriously- I have loved this site for a long time. I just signed up for a talk back account to respond to what I see as a serious decline in the quality of one of my regularly read movie news sites. Now you wrote above that you don't write for talk backers, that you write for friends and for yourself. If that was true, you wouldn't compromise your "channel of friendship" with advertising. You would not allow anyone to sign up for a talk back account. Don't BS your audience Harry- you run the site to make money, you write for readership. Don't shit where you eat. I remember reading an article about you years ago describing how you started the site as a hobby and it grew, now you own the house you live in, your father works with you, etc. etc. I don't care how you couch your motives, this site makes you money. Your readership makes you money. Stop shitting on them. Being Bad is not as good as being good, but being irrelevant is worst of all. And Harry- just read wikipedia for fuck's sake before you start quoting false statistics about hddvd!!! You sound like a moron to anyone who is following that stuff and you give no credibility to your side. And one more thing- seriously- you quoted your myspace friends number- like, dude, you shouldn't do that. It's just sad.
classicgamernerd- ouch! by Particularly Hard Vato	Jun 6th, 2007 12:50:25 AM
I just caught that- mean! :)
Harry, if the horror genre is one of your favorites... by LoneGun	Jun 6th, 2007 12:56:20 AM
...then why did you not bother to review 28 WEEKS LATER? It was not only a fantastic sequel, but one of the best horror movies ever made - truly visionary and scary as hell! Where is your enthusiasm for this amazing horror film? It's definitely worthy of more attention.
I saw the workprint... by VladT	Jun 6th, 2007 12:57:43 AM
...and I must say this is definitely Eli Roth's best film to date. He's showing A LOT of progress. The new movie is slightly better than the first Hostel, and miles ahead of Cabin Fever. Five more movies and Roth'll be up to Uwe Boll's level. Ten more and we get a new Paul WS Anderson.
eli roth/max hardcore by bluebottle	Jun 6th, 2007 01:06:29 AM
what's the difference? i mean, besides a budget? seriously.
difference between roth and hardcore? by gotilk	Jun 6th, 2007 01:16:52 AM
Are you kidding? Do you live in the real world? Roth makes fictional movies and Max Hardcore pays women to let him piss on them, verbally abuse and humiliate them, give them permanent rectal damage and then calls it erotic entertainment. In REALITY. You, like actual stuff happening to a real live female. In the real world. Troll.
Your Moms Box/TVguy4566 by BadMrWonka	Jun 6th, 2007 01:34:47 AM
I wasn't referring to you, moms box TVguy4566 wrote: "Cloo ney and others have gone on record admitting the shittiness of Ocean's 12 and have vowed to make Ocean's 13 closer to Ocean's 11. In fairness to them, how many filmmakers and/or actors admit their box office hit sucked and wanted to correct the mistake." I jsut want to know what "record" they went on, cos I never heard about it.
The fuck is the LOST talkback fiasco? by Lenny Nero	Jun 6th, 2007 01:57:02 AM
Care to tell me? marcdom7@hotmail.com
Lenny - The Lost Talkback Fiasco by seanny_d	Jun 6th, 2007 02:19:35 AM
Almost two weeks before the season finale, a detailed spoiler post was placed in the Coax section that gave away the big "flash forward" twist. After getting a huge number of posts, it was suddenly deleted and all references to the talkback and the spoilers were also deleted. This carried over into a lack of talkback for the penultimate episode of the season while still posts regarding the previous week or the spoilers were deleted as well. And no one ever said a word. I'm guessing ABC got HUGELY pissed at the site and demanded it get taken down but beyond that, who knows. Not a word was ever spoken about it, and the season finale talkback went up with no reference to any issues beforehand. It was rather odd.
Personally... by RevSick	Jun 6th, 2007 02:33:16 AM
...I find Eli's films to be shallow rehashes of better films. But I think he works better in small doses, his trailer in grindhouse was good and always loved the his previous shorts but was never impressed with Cabin Fever or Hostel.
The Roth Love by seanny_d	Jun 6th, 2007 02:33:48 AM
Honestly, I hate horror movies for the most part. There are sometimes a few that I can enjoy, and try to give most a chance, but they don't really appeal to me. I have also never seen either Hostel. That being said, I get this site's almost ejaculatory praise for Roth. When it boils down to it, Ain't It Cool isn't exactly the most professional site. And that's not necessarily a complaint. It's movie fans writing for movie fans. The reason that Roth has gotten so much play here recently is because of how accessible he makes himself to this team of people. I mean, if Clooney was hanging out at Harry's house watching old movies, I'd guarantee you we'd be seeing more Ocean's 13 stuff. Because there'd actually be something to write about. With Roth making himself so available, and with Hostel coming out this weekend, it provides the perfect outlet for articles to be written. Does it make Harry and co seem a little biased? Yeah, but honestly, what do you expect or what have you ever expected from this site? That's kind of the nature of AICN. While I would certainly like to see less Hostel stuff on the main page because I literally have zero desire to see it, I completely understand it. The biggest issue I have is how untrustworthy Harry's reviews can be because they often appear to be viewed through that same bias in that he could never write a negative review about a friend's film. Maybe he can and I'm just getting the wrong vibe. Either way, the only reviews he seems to write are the ones that he feels passionately about in either direction. He either really loves it or really hates it. You never see a Harry review of something like Mr. Brooks, a marginally average movie that has little enthusiasm in one direction or another. I won't deny how annoying it is to see a dozen articles about a movie you could care less about. Yet, that doesn't mean that people have to take it so fucking personally. Like Harry is specifically trying to get people riled up. With the exception of the HD-DVD misinformation the other day, I pretty much get what I expect from this site and it's still one of my favorite places on the net to visit. And even though this review doesn't change my mind about going to see the movie nor even making me appreciate the subject matter any more, I still respect Harry's undying love for the man and the genre and to expect Harry not to be at least somewhat biased would be like expecting it to rain skittles.
Thom85 nailed it.. by BenBraddock	Jun 6th, 2007 02:41:56 AM
..for me. This has quickly become a LOOONG talkback and I have work to do, so I'll just re-post my earlier thoughts (I want to cast my vote here!) But b4 I do, I just want to say that Harry, you have a real cheek to tell me I don't like Horror , cos I do."THE THING, EXORCIST, AMERICAN WEREWOLF IN LONDON are our 3 fave Horror films... with THE SHINING alternating in there somewhere." Complete ditto. But they had CLASS, man, all 3 of them, more class than the Hostel series can ever dream of coming close to. Can't you see that? There are so many other points you are wrong on Harry, but like I said, I have bills to pay, and I guess a lot of my points have already been covered. Here r my original thoughts.. *****************Torture - I'm sure the majority of people on this site would agree - is a truly horrible thing. I wish it didn't exist in the world. It makes me sad the things we do do to each other, for whatever "cause" or purpose. I honestly, truthfully have no desire to see someone tortured in real life. Nor do I want to see it up on the silver screen. There have, of course, been films in the past that have involved torture as a part of their plotlines, to devastating effect (couple that come to mind are "Reservoir Dogs" and "Syriana"); scenes that had me squirming in my seat but accepting that, OK, this was a necessary plot device and not just exploitative. That for me is acceptable - torture exists and is always going to, and some films will need to deal with that issue. But (here it comes) the "Hostel" films seem to revel in the pain, terror and sadism that torture entails, as entertainment, with the express design of turning a buck. I find that wrong, pretty reprehensible actually, and sad that major studios are now prepared to go so far as to back, produce and release such pictures. Capitalism's dark side indeed. I'm not saying the pictures should be banned, just that I find it sad and not a little bit sick that the first one didn't just flop at the box-office, never to be heard of again. Nope, as it turns out, a lot of people wanted to see it. And now we are asked to endure "Hostel 2". That depresses me.***************
Generally I don't trust the reviews on any site... by RevSick	Jun 6th, 2007 02:51:09 AM
...I come here for the news bits and the discussion. I have to really trust someone's opinion on film to trust their review of one. And frankly, with the way bias seems to fly around the site I haven't trusted the site for reviews for some time.
I have no problem with Eli as a person... by RevSick	Jun 6th, 2007 03:25:10 AM
...but I think his stuff isn't all that, it's ok on a d.t.v. level but I won't catch any of it in a theater unless he really wows me with something.
i have 7000 friends on myspace too... by bouncing1	Jun 6th, 2007 03:27:55 AM
they too are all a bunch of needledick fucktards.
I love horror movies, but have no interest in "Hostel" by Mullah Omar	Jun 6th, 2007 03:31:51 AM
I have read nothing that indicates that the story is interesting or the characters compelling. If I am going to spend time watching a movie, it had better be fun or enlightening in some way. "Hostel" sounds overwhelmingly like a case of style over substance, a series where gore and pain are the money shots and reasons for being. A few days ago, there was a talkback about "Poltergeist." Now THAT was a quality horror movie. THAT was a film with identifiable characters, an interesting situation, icons of childhood turned sinister, a supernatural hostage story, etc. In other words, it had some substance and resonance. I just don't get the sense that "Hostel" is in the same league, led alone continent, as horror movies that I enjoy. Harry indicates that not liking "Hostel" is a "with us or against" decision that pits we moviegoers as not being "real" horror fans. I think that is wrong-headed. Plenty of us love horror movies, but "Hostel" just does not seem like a compelling, worthwhile film.
sigma 6 divx by bouncing1	Jun 6th, 2007 03:35:33 AM
you too can watch the rough cut. and by rough i mean RUFF RUFF!!
Eli Roth's movies = the death of art. by kwisatzhaderach	Jun 6th, 2007 03:48:17 AM
Discuss.
GREAT REVIEW by The Real MiraJeff	Jun 6th, 2007 04:13:15 AM
Seriously, one of your best in a while, Harry. I too, don't understand the Eli Roth hate, or the vocal minority of critics who have taken Roth to task for the whole 'torture porn' thing. That term is such bullshit and embodies everything that's wrong with film criticism today. Mainly, that David Edelstein is an old fart with a weak stomach. Same goes for David Poland, whose ridiculous rant where he seemed to be offended by the lurid material in the film came off childish at the same time it came across like it was written by a middle-aged dude who's way out of touch. Maybe my generation is simply desensitized to violence. Maybe it's because we've never known anything different, or because we're bombarded by violent images every day, in commercials, TV, sports, the news, film, music, everything. It is everywhere. It is all-encompassing. But I for one, look forward to spending money to see Weinerdog get cut open like a Thanksgiving Day turkey, and am even more excited to see a hot naked chick bathe in her blood. I can see a little political subtext and social commentary in Eli's work, but whether it's there or not is irrelevant, because that's not why people go see his movies. And I don't even think he's that good necessarily. I thought both Cabin Fever and Hostel were okay, but there's no doubt that Roth knows how to manipulate an audience. He knows when to push the envelope and when to back off. I think he's entirely capable of making a classic horror movie. I think of the Hostel films as more of studio-approved cult films. They're certainly not everyone's bag, but face it, the horror audience is as reliable as any out there. We're loyal. We're the kind of genre fans who allow Bogeyman to open at #1 at the box office. Not me personally of course, but there are many of my fellow brethren, and frankly, I think we're all glad that Roth is making and will continue to make movies that gross us out. Studios have played it too safe for too long with violent movies, mainly because of the political pressure applied by D.C. lawmakers, who keep the entire industry in check. As much as Valenti did for the MPAA, the system he created wasn't as helpful as it could've been, to both filmmakers and parents. And the reason the genre is so mired down in studio-bred remakes and sequels is because more and more good horror movies are coming from abroad, be it Japan, Korea, France, etc. Major studios just don't have the balls to put stuff like this out, which is why Lionsgate has to step up and be The Man for everybody. They practically have a monopoly on an entire genre, because you sure as shit won't see the Warners logo in front of the next Saw movie, or Mickey ears gracing the opening of Hostel Part 3. Dimension used to be the big man on campus but even they've backed off the violence in recent years, going with PG-13 crap like Pulse, while Sony thinks it knows horror because it can trick a bunch of people into seeing Grudge films and then crank up the sound for those pansy-ass jump scares. Lionsgate knows the market, knows what it wants, who can give it to them and how to sell it. I'm even willing to bet Hostel 2 gives Ocean's a run for its money this weekend. Roth may not be the savior it seems like we're making him out to be lately, but he's absolutely one of the best students of the genre working right now and he's earned the benefit of the doubt. So for everyone condemning this movie before they've seen it, like um, Nikki Finke, I say hold your tongue until you have a clue what you're talking about. If horror isn't your bag and you have a personal bias against it, and violence, and more specifically, violence against women, then just don't interject yourself into the conversation, because it's a lose-lose. Eli's fans and horror fans in general are here to stay. We're not going away anytime soon, we know what we want and shit like Hostel is what we want, so back off, mind your business, and go daydream about rainbows while you watch a movie about puppies. I'll be watching a chick's face get mangled by a chainsaw with a big ol' smile on my face. And what offends me, is people who are offended by a friggin' horror movie, and then jump on their moral high horse and decry this country's cultural values. And that's my honest opinion on the current state of horror, Eli Roth, 'torture porn,' and bloggers who have nothing better to do than persecute a guy who gets off on scaring the living shit out of people. Who are they to say how a guy should earn a living? Even 'porn' directors are people too.
"If you don't like Hostel 2 you don't like horror" by PacmanFever	Jun 6th, 2007 04:16:31 AM
That's the vibe I get towards the end of this review. Also I don't remember any head sport scenes in Rambo III.
You know, if the vast majority of people say... by Sledge Hammer	Jun 6th, 2007 04:21:55 AM
...that something really, really sucks, then there's a pretty damn good chance that it really does suck. Fact is most people aren't falling for the 'new face of horror' bullshit hype anymore, and have woken up to what a massively inept and amatuerish director, and just plain painfully horrible writer that Eli Roth truly is. Three films, three utter, utter pieces of shit, each seemingly, and amazingly, even worse than the last. I have over a thousand horror movies in my personal collection, counting both DVD and VHS, and personally I wouldn't piss on Hostel even if it was on fire. If ever a filmmaker completly and utterly missed the mark about what horror is, what makes it work, and how to build tension and construct even a halfway decent fright flick, it's Eli Roth. And again, I don't give a rat's ass about the 'torture porn' debate, I only care about the 'he's a fucking awful filmmaker' debate. Seriously, he makes local aicn whipping boy Paul WS Anderson look like Stanley Kubrick by comparison.
HOSTEL II is fucking BRILLIANT!!! by Rearden	Jun 6th, 2007 04:22:29 AM
I'm sorry. But fuck all of you uninformed collectivist haters, too scared to stray from the herd. It isn't brilliant b/c Roth delivered "totally sick shit," but instead b/c he wrote what is a fantastic script by any and all rational definitions of what a fantastic script consists of, and then executed it wonderfully. The film is funny, it is frightening, and it is a wholly original work that neither strays from, nor attempts to recapture, what he accomplished in the first film. It is a sequel that build upon the first film as a the pretext for creating a completely new story. I loved Hostel II and, if your talkbacks are any indication, you haters don't know shit about shit, and you're just along for the ride. Try watching the movie for yourself, and I assure you you will not come away unsatisfied.
anyone who uses the term "TORTURE PORN" ... by Rearden	Jun 6th, 2007 04:26:24 AM
... in reference to HOSTEL II, has not seen HOSTEL II. Or is attempting to lie to those who haven't. And why-oh-why would they want to go and do a thing like that?
anyone who uses the term "TORTURE PORN" ... by Rearden	Jun 6th, 2007 04:26:27 AM
... in reference to HOSTEL II, has not seen HOSTEL II. Or is attempting to lie to those who haven't. And why-oh-why would they want to go and do a thing like that?
I have seen the film... by Sledge Hammer	Jun 6th, 2007 04:48:15 AM
...and if you think the inept, paper thin, predictable and utterly hollow piece of shit script was "fantastic" and "executed wonderfully" then I truly weep for the future of not just genre filmmaking, but of film in general. If you enjoy Hostel 2 then more power to ya, even if I still personally think the film is an utter, utter piece of shit, but when people start praising what a great film maker Roth is, and calling Hostel 2 a superior piece of horror, that's where, as a life long horror fan, I just have to draw the line, because he truly is a massively inept and horrible filmmaker, and his scriptwriting is beyond atrocious, and refering to him as the new face of horror is something I personally find hideously insulting, given just how poor a filmmaker he truly is. But whatever, I'm sure his film will make money regardless, deserved or not.
harry was kidding about the myspace shit by CQuest	Jun 6th, 2007 05:29:15 AM
at least GAWD i hope so. i didnt respond to it cuz it just seeemed like a joke. if he was really using that seriously then....damn. i truly feel sorry for the man
Come on... by Midnightxpress	Jun 6th, 2007 05:34:24 AM
...Harry has always had pretty bad taste in films....go read his Mummy 2 review....doesn't make him worse than Hitler, which some of these talk backs suggest.... And Cabin Fever was so dull I refuse to pay to see another Roth movie. I'll wait til the Cable showing thank you
Cheering at a dick being cut off... by Mr Gorilla	Jun 6th, 2007 05:45:13 AM
So Hostel takes you to a place where you cheer when someone's dick us cut off. Brilliant. They didn't manage that in Ai No Corridor.
harry knows his shit by Zadrock	Jun 6th, 2007 05:59:48 AM
I don't know why you all seem to hate Eli Roth, but I think I have a pretty good idea. A true film geek who got off his ass and made something of himself instead of slowly turning into comic-book guy from the simpsons. SERIOUSLY, "Cabin Fever" was a well made original horror flick that play'd with the genre and pay'd due's to the flicks before it. "Hostel" was incredibly original and a breathe of fresh air in a year of tired remakes, and now that there's a sequel you all hate the movie before you've even seen it. Maybe it's because Roth is young and not hideous looking. I really think that you people are jealous that the guy isn't a "geek" and he still gets to make movies that "horror geeks" still love.
Too fucking tame by MyManD316	Jun 6th, 2007 06:01:06 AM
I loved the first Hostel because it was the first movie in a while (screw off Saw) that really tried to push the boundaries of good taste. I commended its efforts even though it wasn't a great movie. It was with Hostel 2 that I expected Roth to push even further, but nothing in the film got to me. The drill in the first movie made me squirm a bit. The eyeball, the achilles cutting. All of it was unsettling. Here, the only decent part was the cannibalism. Everything else, the blood shower, the saw, even the fucking castration, left me bored and unimpressed. Maybe years of gore flicks have desensitized me to an extent, but I could honestly say this was NOT a very satisfying for a gorehound like me.
What was your favourite kill? by joergn	Jun 6th, 2007 06:01:33 AM
That seems to be the tagline for the movie. Sorry, don´t sound so "intelligent" for me. I´ve got no problem with Eli Roth, much more how "Papa Headgeek" dares to tell other critics that his opinion seems to be the only legit one and that silly excuses he got for it.
eli roth is a talentless hack by THEE Miracleman	Jun 6th, 2007 06:15:50 AM
yep
Moriarty by TheBigDogg	Jun 6th, 2007 06:16:22 AM
Do us horror fans a favour and don't lump us together with Roth fans. Not all horror fans are Roth fans. Not even close.
DOH! Sorry - I meant MiraJeff by TheBigDogg	Jun 6th, 2007 06:17:02 AM
Sorry, Mori.
Mirajeff by Mr Gorilla	Jun 6th, 2007 06:23:10 AM
It's because you 'don't understand the critics who have taken Roth to task for the 'torture porn' thing' that the critics ARE so vocal. Torture has been around for ages. What is relatively new is the circulation, via video and the net, of torture footage (execution of Daniel Pearl) and photos (Abu Ghraib). What happens when the torture material is watched again and again? It becomes less shocking. People's sensibilites get blunted. The torture footage/photograph becomes 'entertainment'. In this context, a film about torture made for entertainment purposes, a film about torture in which audiences (according to Harry) cheer violence, a film that soldiers in Iraq watch - seems at the least a matter for serious debate. The Hostel films are by no means the only films currently out there to present scenes of torture as entertainment. But each and every director has to think carefully about what they are putting out there, what images they are putting into people's minds. You can't just say 'it's only a horror movie'. And as one talkbacker above said, it's not particularly about moments of gore... but it IS about the 'feel'. When people are watching - for entertainment - scenes in which someone is crying, begging not to be hurt... when the entire plot of a film is about building up to that moment and the moment of death (in the way - yes - that a porn film builds up to the sex scene and the money shot) - you have to take this shit seriously and think about what is happening.
My biggest complaint by Zadrock	Jun 6th, 2007 06:34:53 AM
I love that people who hated the first flick for being "torture porn" are now upset for the lack of violence in this one. WHY DO YOU BOTHER TO GO SEE A MOVIE THAT YOU'VE ALREADY DECIDED THAT YOU HATE"
Mirajeff, how old are you? by BenBraddock	Jun 6th, 2007 06:44:33 AM
'Cos you come across like a 14 year-old.
Err...BAD BOYS 3 anyone? by Motoko Kusanagi	Jun 6th, 2007 06:56:34 AM
I'm getting tired of all these Roth/Hostel talkbacks. Must be hundreds...
FYI - Eli Roth on Howard Stern by Cysquatch	Jun 6th, 2007 07:10:50 AM
coming up this morning.
How about some fucking spoiler warnings? by Cysquatch	Jun 6th, 2007 07:20:13 AM
You immediately blurted out that one of the main characters dies.
7,000 MySpace friends by Thunderpants	Jun 6th, 2007 07:30:44 AM
Yeah yeah...we all know Harry is going to type up some cheesedick response to the incessant flaming over his MySpace comments. But seriously...come the fuck on. Jesus Christ...any shred of respect I had for him is gone. How fucking childish can you fucking get?!? How can anyone in this industry take him seriously?! ROTFL!!! LMAO!!! Fuck you, fuck MySpace, and fuck this site. This site is like a meeting place for a bunch of nerds to come together to masturbate on each other.
mr_sinister7381 by TheBigDogg	Jun 6th, 2007 07:35:16 AM
While I hated Hostel, I think it's untrue to say that these are the first kill-focused films in US commercial territory. Nightmare on Elm Street 3 (and the sebsequent films) were all about 'cool' kills. Freddy was the draw at that point. But, I guess the difference is that nobody was claiming that NoES3 brought "intelligence to the genre".
How about some fucking spoiler warnings? by Cysquatch	Jun 6th, 2007 07:35:51 AM
You immediately blurted out that one of the main characters dies.
mr_sinister7381 by TheBigDogg	Jun 6th, 2007 07:48:56 AM
Yep, you're absolutely right. There's a huge difference in how the material was handled in most of the 80s horrors and certainly the mainstream ones. Don't get me wrong - I'm not defending Roth. I'm a huge horror fan and, though I'll admit to enjoying Cabin Fever, I think Hostel offered little. It certainly wasn't smart. But I think the biggest problem here, the thing that's really pissing off the talkbackers, is simply that Roth sounds like a dick and yet this site is pimping him to comical levels. Hostel 2 may be great (I don't know, I haven't seen it) but get in anyones face long enough and you're going to piss them off. That's what's happening here.
The Real MiraJeff by Chilli815	Jun 6th, 2007 08:10:16 AM
If Hostel/Hostel II HAD a story beyond young adults get captured and played with before torture, I would probably go and see it. But every review I read confirms that its about the kills, not about the quality of the film. And why the heck'd I want to see inventive deaths. It was bad enough when FD2/FD3 decided that stories were for pussies and so were such things as logic, pacing, and decent characters, but now Hostel/Hostel II can get away with the same things?
Chilli815 by MyManD316	Jun 6th, 2007 08:16:54 AM
Hey, Hostel II does have characters - the strong leader character, the mousy 'good' character and the wild party animal. It's SO different from Hostel.
MyManD316 by Chilli815	Jun 6th, 2007 08:21:30 AM
I had no idea. Do they go through a redemption storyline for daring to be annoying?
Too attached to their own cocks! by Samson_K	Jun 6th, 2007 08:31:06 AM
I doubt that almost evert cock bearing humans would ever, ever see this as being a bad thing!!!
Eli is fucking sick! by Foucault	Jun 6th, 2007 08:35:14 AM
Why are you so excited about violence like this? What has W done to you, Americans? Eli Roth is sick and he wants the public's aprobation, like a bad student who fails a test and still pretends he can go to the next grade.
To be honest by Samson_K	Jun 6th, 2007 08:42:54 AM
I haven't seen Hostel, I saw Cabin Fever and thought it functioned better as a black comedy than a Horror but I didn't hate it. I was never really very interested in Hostel as it seemed to be something that I might find boring. Will get it when it pops up on my queue at Amazon DVD rental. Have no real interest in Hostel Part 2 either. I think that it's maybe a little early in a career to be revisiting films but it never did Sam Raimi any real harm. I do think that there sems to be an awful lot of hate towards Roth and wonder if when Raimi had done Evil Dead 2 if the internet buzz would be the same. However it also seems that the defence is becoming a bit blinded and that Harry especially is discounting all negative views as being a product of blind Roth hatred! It is also becoming a little defensive and a bit weird - Harry any legitimate arguments that you made were almost instantly scuppered by the admission that you have over 7000 Myspace friends! I have no Myspace friends but I get by in life!
umm.. by dengreg31	Jun 6th, 2007 08:43:30 AM
"If none of that makes any sense to you, then perhaps horror isn’t your genre....This is his best film to date." Actually, well-made films are my "genre", so I'll be skipping this. And if this is his "best film to date", well he should look into another profession... oh, and Spazz... who is this "Stephen Spielburgh" you speak of? It's Steven Spielberg. Not that hard.
Harry by PwnedByStallone	Jun 6th, 2007 08:51:15 AM
Talkbackers represent less than 5% of your readership? BULLSHIT. Show me the numbers.
Cabin Fever? great. Hostel? greater. Hostel 2? by www.valiens.com	Jun 6th, 2007 08:54:00 AM
Greatest, I hope. I really don't get what people are bitching about. Roth's got a love for the genre and the writing/directing chops to back it up. I think all this hate comes from the fact that unlike most directors he seems accessible. He talks "just like us" because he is "just like us" and the other people in the "us" equation cannot stand his fame. After all, what's he got that we don't? It must be total luck that he's as famous as he is! Fuck him! No, fuck YOU. The man knows what he's doing. Give the man his due.
what a load of crap. by gomez33	Jun 6th, 2007 08:56:22 AM
I'm never going to understand why people are so shocked by crap like Hostel. People have been hiding non-existent story telling behind blood and gore (and CGI, and nudity, and big fight scenes, and Angelina Jolie) for decades. Eli Roth is no different. I will not entertain any silly arguments that his movies are ever pieces of art or even good for that matter. I find his story-telling weak which means i have little to no investment in his films, so when the gory stuff happens, I am almost immune to it and find myself picking holes in the choices the sicko murderers are making. They should not be compared to great horror flicks of the past as they are simply not as good. Thats nothing to do with any hatred towards the director, or towards the genre itself. its simply because these films are not very good.
Here's the thing... by lazynogoodnic	Jun 6th, 2007 08:58:10 AM
...Any one can shoot acts of brutal violence and create the same spectacal that Eli Roth has managed to. Gore and brutality are the easiest thing to master, and while they can be staples of horror, they aren't THE staples of horror. Harry, what happened to the idea of horror being horrifying? Granted, I would never want to find myself in these situations, but a good horror film has to be scary in more ways than just a basic premise. I'm sure Eli is a swell guy in person, but I can only ever know the guy through his reputation: The New Face/Savior of the Horror Genre. But he isn't. His work is exploitation cinema, which is fine when it is self aware and honest about it's role. But as it stands, horror buffs are being duped into thinking that blood, guts and Giallo-esque kills are the foundations of horror cinema. No one working in horror these days grasps the horror concept. Rob Zombie, Eli Roth, etc...they grew up on bloody kills of characters with the depth of a tattered napkin, and they think that's what the genre is about.
Are you guys still here? by Jakes Nel	Jun 6th, 2007 08:59:29 AM
They posted some new stuff, you know?
I do believe... by Dominic-Vobiscum	Jun 6th, 2007 09:04:28 AM
That is the most unnecessarily defensive review I've ever read in my life. You spent more time referring to similar acts of violence in other movies than you did actually reviewing Hostel II. I know you can't write a film review to save your own life, but good god man.
Theatre of Blood / Phibes comparisons by Samson_K	Jun 6th, 2007 09:11:46 AM
Now - not having seen Hostel II but from your review I don't think that Phibes / Theatre of Blood comparisons can really fly. In the Vincent Price films the people who died were all loathsome caricatures - people you wanted to see die and their deaths were all quite ironic or apt to who they were (especially in Theatre of Blood). The murderer became the anti-hero - you wanted him to succeed. This seems different - the deaths may be a little more thetrical but I would assume the tone is different. Having someone pleading for her mother is very different from Robert Moreley being force fed his poodles
"Hostel" is not a slasher flick by Movietool	Jun 6th, 2007 09:12:47 AM
Slasher flicks are, for the most part, cartoons. Yes, the Freddy movies very much became all about "the kills," but it was completely over-the-top and not at all to be taken seriously. Hostel and the Torture Porn films are different, in that they're trying to sell the realism - trying to make you believe that this is something that could possibly happen. These are snuff films, intended to depict, as realistically as possible, the brutal torture of human beings. You can wrap it up in whatever pretty paper you want to, saying the "characters are well developed and the bad guys get their comeupance in the end," but none of that changes the fact that the basic idea behind Hostel and Hostel II is to go see realistic depictions of drawn out human suffering. If that entertains you, then fine. But I find it disturbing and I won't be told that I can't say anything about it unless I see the movie.
Wow, you guys are unbelievably short-sighted by www.valiens.com	Jun 6th, 2007 09:18:55 AM
Hostel was more than gore & torture porn. It sets up the fact that it's a horror flick right away then you don't see anything until the end. You're just left with the creepy knowledge that SOMETHING aweful is going to happen because, contrary to the "Porky's" movie you're watching, it's a horror. Then, somewhere along the way you do forget you're watching a horror movie altogether. You're watching the spectacle of foreign cultures/countries being turned into fodder for the (primarily) American (definitely) male ego/libido. But when things turn ugly, everything turns ugly, not just the actions of the people, not just the situation, but the entire set. The cloud lifts. What was formerly this cool retro town of disco and pussy, inviting and comforting, is now clearly a war-torn, poor, venus fly trap of a place. It's like if tourists going to an old castle thinking, "Cool! A castle! Dude, let's scratch our names on the wall and trash the place," suddenly realized they're in Dracula's castle. That kind of swerve is fucking brilliant. Also, there was actual character development, god forbid, and an obvious lack of one-liners. Seriosuly, how are the horror-lovin' peeps in here against this? I don't get it.
Gomez33, YOU ARE SPOT ON!! by LaneMyersClassic	Jun 6th, 2007 09:20:13 AM
I couldn't have said it any better myself. Thank you! I would like to know what some of your favorite horror (or other genre) movies are, because I want to see if great minds really do think alike. I'm serious.
Dominic-Vobiscum, I agree by emptystan	Jun 6th, 2007 09:20:16 AM
This didn't read like a review, it read like a defense of this site and all the stuff it's posted on this film. I love the line about there being nothing crossing the line that a horror aficionado couldn't reference, followed by similar movie scenes. So it's basically been done before. I got a kick out of how Lorna reminded him of a friend but that her death was scene was sensual and erotic. Not painful and uncomfortable at all, eh?
Hostel makes me squeamish by bender7	Jun 6th, 2007 09:24:30 AM
I'll admit it. Which is why I didn't really enjoy the film and would probably not enjoy this one. It's not that I haven't seen a good share of movie violence, I've seen lots of gruesome movies in my time. But it's Hostel's long, drawn out suffering of it's vitims that gets under my skin. More often than not I go see a movie to relax and enjoy my 2-3 hours. Maybe Roth is really pushing the envelope here if he get's such strong reactions, and I guess I can appreciate that. It's just not my thing.
Everyone Grow Up!!! by orliplayer	Jun 6th, 2007 09:28:26 AM
Harry's just expressing his opinion of how the movie worked for him, and i THINK that, i don't know, maybe, just maybe, Harry has MORE FILM EXPERIENCE than most of us. People who haven't seen the movie can't complain about a review until you have seen it. To you the review only works as way to know if you should or shouldn't see it. For those who saw it and hated it, or are against Harry's review, make your own webpage and post it. I read all the reviews I can about all the movies I want to see before I reach a decision, and you should, too. Just leave the effing reviewers alone.
You people are so full of shit! by Jakes Nel	Jun 6th, 2007 09:31:18 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Gremlins 2 kicks ass!
In Harry's defense by ProfGriffin	Jun 6th, 2007 09:35:55 AM
While I don't agree with him at all regarding the comparisons to Theatre of Blood and the Phibes films...I can see how he says that Hostel 2 is more theatrical. It is. It is staged as such. BUT it is still miles away from the dark fantasies of Hammer and the AIP Price pictures he mentions. There is a definate 'this is a film' artistry to scenes like the upside down death, (and no we don't see her goodies, just her breasts swinging in and out of frame as she convulses in pain and screams in agony for a seemingly endless time. No. Not for me. Oh,Harry? To anser your question. Yeah, I work for Fangoria...of course I've seen it.
Jakes Nel by Chilli815	Jun 6th, 2007 09:41:17 AM
Gremlins II is fantastic.
If there's one thing to come from all of this... by TheBigDogg	Jun 6th, 2007 09:56:16 AM
...it's that Gremlins 2 is, indeed, fantastic.
Gremlins 2 is a big pile of shit! by Samson_K	Jun 6th, 2007 10:12:29 AM
No - wait - that was Ghostbusters 2. Gremlins 2: The New Batch is a new batch of hilarity and hijinks and is therefore great!
Hang on - wasn't Captivity by Samson_K	Jun 6th, 2007 10:26:49 AM
Given a whole load of crap on this site for it's images of a woman, bound, tortured and abused? Seriously it was somewhere but I can't remember if it was this site?
Yep, Samson... by TheBigDogg	Jun 6th, 2007 10:31:42 AM
It was this site but, in fairness, the issue with Captivity was that it was out in the open where kids could see it. It is different.
Yeah, because society's perfect by orliplayer	Jun 6th, 2007 10:32:05 AM
Sorry pal, today's society is yesterday's fascism. If some movie, whatever the genre, offends you, don't watch it!!! Man, freedom's so great!!! Just don't go saying people are insane or perverted just because they enjoy a good piece of movie making fantasy. You know, these people didn't actually died...they are ALIVE!!!! It's true, really. And they enjoyed the hell out of filming the movie. Just see it as entertainment and don't be such a jackass.
FUCK HOSTEL by lost.rules	Jun 6th, 2007 10:32:51 AM
And Fuck you too!
Thanks TheBigDogg by Samson_K	Jun 6th, 2007 10:37:52 AM
Yeah - I remember now it was to do with the billboards and stuff wasn't it? Right!
Get on the defense AICN! by lost.rules	Jun 6th, 2007 10:42:56 AM
Cause we're all against you.
I'm sorry.... by orliplayer	Jun 6th, 2007 10:44:46 AM
You are right...The New Stars Wars movies sucked, and...wow, those are the only ones I can agree with you, ut that's MY SCREW GOD ON THE ASS OPINION!!!! What i'm saying is that he is truly a film industry lover and I think (and thinking does not make something a fact, kids) that he has seen more movies that most of us, and if Hostel II is the last one of his top 500 films in his life, it's worth a look, because it's still a better-than-average horror movie.
Just in case you didn't hate Eli Roth enough. by PwnedByStallone	Jun 6th, 2007 10:48:34 AM
http://tinyurl.com/2mo9eb
Samson_K by TheBigDogg	Jun 6th, 2007 10:52:09 AM
Yes, that was exactly it. They were told not to put the billboard up and then put it up anyway.
Keep all this in mind when Hostel 2 makes $12.75 by Garbageman33	Jun 6th, 2007 10:52:37 AM
I can't imagine there are $60 or $70 million worth of people who enjoy watching women get tortured. And I hope to god I'm not wrong.
Myspace outage leaves millions friendless by Garbageman33	Jun 6th, 2007 10:54:10 AM
Onion headline that was practically written for Harry.
Wow, MiraJeff... by DocPazuzu	Jun 6th, 2007 10:54:34 AM
..."We're the kind of genre fans who allow Bogeyman to open at #1" .... I've seen you say some dumb shit on many occasions, but that was probably the dumbest yet. You either think that Boogeyman is worth that kind of support, or you think it's a good thing that horror fans are "loyal" enough to support any piece of shit floated into cinemas just because it's horror. Christ, with friends like you, Roth doesn't need enemies.
Orliplayer by Garbageman33	Jun 6th, 2007 10:58:54 AM
Harry has also eaten a lot more Chicken Mcnuggets than the rest of us. Does that make my opinion about Chicken Mcnuggets any less valid than his?
I've got 43 friends on My Space Harry, and guess... by lost.rules	Jun 6th, 2007 11:04:35 AM
what. They're REAL friends. People I actually talk to, and hang out with. How often do you hang out with your million friends? IDIOT
I finally read the review by Garbageman33	Jun 6th, 2007 11:09:51 AM
Wow. Harry comes across more like a defense attorney than a film reviewer. And you know what? We, the AICN jury, still find Eli Roth guilty of being an incredible hack.
Posting this in all 7 of the Eli Roth Articles on AIRN by tehgreekhammer	Jun 6th, 2007 11:18:26 AM
Wow Harry, you are such a little bitch ass, cum dumpster. 7 freakin articles on Eli Roth and his lame wannabee attempts at horror ovies gets 7 articles on this site. But Danny Boyles 28 weeks later film gets like one or two? (ps I know Boyle didnt direct Weeks but u know what i mean) Don Murphy was right about you all along. You really are a worthless turd. I cant believe I actually wasted time going over there to defend you and this site, not too long ago. What a waste of my fucking time. Defending a loser fucktard with huge titties, who does absolutely nothing at all except shit on his ass eating breakfast nachos @ 1pm. I cant imagine the horrible trainwreck of a life you would be living if this site hadnt taken off in popularity. Can you imagine what life for you would have been like if you needed to rely on an actual skill or creativity? Maybe you could have turned into a video store clerk or maybe a movie theater employee working for minimum wage? Thats about it though. I hope you say a little prayer at night for your tiny bit of good fortune in an otherwise pitiful life. I guess the only way you get to sleep at night is thinking about your 7000 myspace friends after furiously masturbating to some obscure german horror movie thats only available on Betamax while looking at your naked picture of Eli that Im sure is in a folder on your desktop. Don Murphy was right about you Harry. And you know what? Ban me if that makes you feel any better. Because i wont take the time out of my life here in NY to come back to this p.o.s. and create yet another screen name. good day whore.
AICN staff and their love for Roth. by AllPowerfulWizardOfOz	Jun 6th, 2007 11:47:00 AM
It is what it is. Accept the fact that Roth is a polarizing figure in horror. You either love um or hate him. As a person I have not hate for Eli Roth. Eli Roth as a film maker I cannot stand. I gave both Cabin Fever AND Hostel a fair chance. I actually watched both movies twice Harry and it's just not my cup of tea. I felt no connection to either movie. I was bored to tears and found neither scary. If anything I found them amusing but not in a good way. I just don't think Roth is original and I certainly don't find his movies have any substance. I like all types of movies Harry. Even ones that are brainless from time to time can be entertaining if taken at face value but with Eli Roth films he's 0-2 for me with the exception of that Thanksgiving trailer which was fantastic. Sorry you can't win on this one because it's just a matter of taste. To me Roth is the Uwe Boll of horror. Christ Anderson's Event Horizon was more entertaining then any Roth film.
CLEVER AT BEST/ A REAL CRITISIM by gride9000	Jun 6th, 2007 11:54:40 AM
Clever at best... One part of Harry's review I like is the stats. The stats were the backbone of Harry's argument against Hostal setting a new line in violent movies. I agree with him. Harry's statsare also is an argument for unoriginality. Eli is a "Horror Nerd", and he is exellent at following Genra rules, to creat a genra film. Eli Roth does nothing new in these films on a script, effects, dirctorial and production design level. The original part of this series are the charactors, or to be more precise, stereotypes. Most modern filmakers in the genra of horror adapt script structure. The first Hostal, did this. One could draw parellels between its script and devices and many classic films from the genra. We've all seen effects of this nature in other films. The editing is almost comicly referencing privious horror films (see alien, hitchcock). I found 3 shots ripped of from "Pshyco". The production design was apropreate, but unrealistic and movieish. A primary exaple is the Amsterdam whorehouse. Fake as hell! The original aspect of this film series is the charactors. Each is a representation of a typical American acording to the script writer. Each not a real person, but a representation of any jerk kid with a eurorail pass and a fresh diploma. They are a more modern stereotype than the couple checking into the cheap/creepy motel, or the recently un-virgined campers trapped in the woods. Every person who has traveled abroad has a moment during travel whem they question their own safty. This fealing of travel fear, combined with post-modern filmakeing represent what the Hostal series is all about. I like Hostal, and I will see Hostal 2. These films are made well and are very emtertaining. That asise...Hitchcock, and many others from film history I didn't reference here, are filmmakers who invent genra, not reference it. Eli Roth did do original charactor work that fits a new stereotype. Roth's new twist on charactors and lack of originality in the Hostal series is as I said "CLEVER AT BEST"
No I am there with you BringingSexyBack by AllPowerfulWizardOfOz	Jun 6th, 2007 12:08:37 PM
I also really enjoyed Event Horizon and actually own both versions of it on DVD. I only dropped that one in because of Harry's undying hatefest for Paul W.S. Anderson as a film maker and to prove a point. It's no different then our hate for Roth as a film maker. I don't like every Paul W.S. Anderson film BTW he's cranked out some real turds (AvP) but I enjoyed Mortal Kombat (great example of brainless entertainment) and I enjoyed Event Horizon enough that I've watched it many many times and as mentioned own both versions of the DVD release. It's the same thing you either like Paul W.S. Anderson or you hate his films. No different then Roth. Personally if I were Roth I would make that "Thanksgiving" trailer into a real movie and bill it as comedic horror "with all the trimmings" and Roth may have a chance at winning over the crowd that dislikes him. Could be a very funny film if it was made right. Or at least go in that direction with a horror/comedy. It worked for Sam Raimi and Evil Dead 2/Army Of Darkness. But making these horror movies that he expects us to be shocked at just is not hitting the right node with me and many others. I see Hostel 2 tanking at the box office in a major way and there is nothing that Harry and his staff can do to stop it.
The Big Difference Between Horror of the Past and Now by The Funketeer	Jun 6th, 2007 12:14:53 PM
is that back then, movies were made to scare us. Now they are made to titillate. Whatever Roth's intentions are, he knows his audience and he knows they aren't scared by the gore anymore. They go because it excites them and that's wrong. Also, I don't think people here really hate Roth, they hate this sites unabashed promotion of his work. We all know you're friends and you can claim that doesn't influence your opinion but no one is going to believe you and because of that, you really shouldn't be reviewing his work if you want to call yourself a news site.
I cunt speel by gride9000	Jun 6th, 2007 12:20:10 PM
but my words are true!
Harry, you're such a bright young fella. by Borgnine JR	Jun 6th, 2007 12:25:36 PM
When are you going to give up this silly website and get a real job? Something substantial? A clever young man like you could probably get a great job in advertising.
Eli Roth = Demon Dave with a budget by Ricky Henderson	Jun 6th, 2007 12:25:42 PM
End of story.
"This is his best film to date."!?! by Malebolgia	Jun 6th, 2007 12:29:52 PM
Most.Meaningless.Statement.Eve r.
Naming Eli Roth's best movie... by Garbageman33	Jun 6th, 2007 12:32:26 PM
Is like naming Color Me Badd's best album.
Great horror movie !!! by giger167	Jun 6th, 2007 12:39:32 PM
I liked the movie, so sue me lol. So just to clarify we all now hate George Lucas, Lost, Any film maker who writes his own material and is succesful, any film maker who has an actractive girl friend, and any AICN writer who actually has done something with his life beyond writing for the site ? Oh and anything with cock in it because obviously anyone gay would never read this site. Someone let me know so I can stick with the haters who are obviously the cool kids :) Seriously though the movie's great, my only slight worry regarding it is showing it the same week Ocean 13 is opening, errr did someone at Lionsgate actually think this was a good idea ???
Ickiest cinematic castration for me... by FilmNerdJamie	Jun 6th, 2007 12:41:38 PM
...will always be the "bath-tub" scene from I SPIT ON YOUR GRAVE. But you're probably right about CANNIBAL HOLOCAUST, Harry!
Prediction... by TheHorror	Jun 6th, 2007 12:42:34 PM
2008: "Cell is Roth's best film to date" 2009: "Hostel III is Roth's best film to date" 2010: "Thanksgiving is Roth's best film to date" you see the pattern...btw they'll all be poor efforts.
Tehgreekhammer by LoneGun	Jun 6th, 2007 12:42:54 PM
I agree with you on the point about 28 WEEKS LATER. It deserved more attention. Fantastic horror film.
I guess I'm in the minority by thefreeagents	Jun 6th, 2007 12:50:51 PM
but I liked the first Hostel. It was alot better than I thought it would be. I might not get to catch Hostel 2 at the theatre but I know I'll eventually see it.
What the? by loafroaster	Jun 6th, 2007 12:50:53 PM
I don't have a problem with Eli Roth, or his films. Cabin Fever was pretty entertaining, and the two Hostel films were mildly diverting fun; something you'll watch, then forget in a few weeks. NO-ONE will be talking about these films in a couple of years time, but hey, you can say the same for most of the films released in the past couple of years. But what really pisses me off is when they're revered as works of art; clever, character-driven classics. And sweet fuck, mentioning them in the same sentence as Alien, Halloween, THE THING?!?! That's just plain insulting. But that ain't HIS fault; like I said, I have nothing against Eli Roth and his work, fair play to him for making an entertaining sequel that kills a few hours. But Christening him the saviour of horror and pointlessly dissecting his films to death? Oh, do fuck off.
The Thing by dcut75	Jun 6th, 2007 12:58:10 PM
One of my all time favorites. One of the best horror films ever made. It also bombed at the box office and was trashed by critics, many of whom called it pornography.
When the torture porn fad ends... by GrubStreeter	Jun 6th, 2007 12:59:59 PM
...and it will ...I hope the human race will look back and be a little embarrassed.
Cinematic Castration by ProfGriffin	Jun 6th, 2007 01:02:55 PM
I agree with FilmNerdJamie inn regards to I Spit on Your Grave...but not because of the gore. It was the fact that the victim, one of the rapists is revealed to be a family man, married with kids...someone who looks normal, acts normal and for that one totally evil act, might be you or I. To see him dying in the tub, crying with regret, with doom and thinking of what? His wife? His kids? Just wanting to go home...desperately wanting to take it all back. This is where 'I Spit on your Grave' is so disturbing...it shows you this brutal gang-rape, you hate the bastards who did it, but then somehow, it let's you in to their world...and we know them. Masterful...and disturbing.
28 weeks later was great by dieninamyers	Jun 6th, 2007 01:06:34 PM
here is what baffles my mind: werent half of you fucking crybabies crying about the new die hard movie being PG-13? and now you guys are are bitching about this one being too much? i swear you guys will cry about anything. on the other hand, it is complete bullshit that Harry is doing nothing but pimp out his buddys stupid shit movie while good flicks are being looked over and ingored. i swore to myself that i would never ever watch hostel 2, instead my money is going to Oceans 13. will it suck? proabably. but it least its not written by some pussy obsessed frat boy who got some money together and jerks off the bloody naked chicks.
Men Behind the Sun... by dcut75	Jun 6th, 2007 01:07:37 PM
Is available on netflix. Please, PLEASE, all you bible thumping prudes who think Hostel is extreme and sick, pick this movie up.
Question for Harry/AICN writers by Darth Sicilian	Jun 6th, 2007 01:10:42 PM
Based on these talkbacks it seems to me that people fall into two camps: the people who find the realistic depiction of human torture morally reprehensible and those who think it’s cool. My question to the AICN writers is this: In your opinion is there a limit as to what can be shown on the screen under the label of a “Horror Film”? For example if Hostel 3 comes out and it is about a family being kidnapped and a mother and father (and the viewers) have to watch their young children being graphically mutilated would this still be OK because it’s a horror film? Are there limits or since it’s fake and not really happening should it be dismissed?
Grubstreeter... by dcut75	Jun 6th, 2007 01:10:42 PM
What you call torture porn has always been around, it's just more mainstream now. It may become less popular, but it will always be here.
The ending to this movie.... by TheUltraHumanite	Jun 6th, 2007 01:11:45 PM
sucks ass, it's an idea i had when i was 12 years old. I don't usually watch bootleg movies, but i felt the need to watch this one just to screw them over for the last one. Looks like Eli has joined Harry's "Crap" Pack of lame ass directors who he brings to a climax with his fat fucking lips. Eli should have a little modesty, i mean, he's certainly no Quentin or RoRod. I imagaine a scenario where those two are sitting around watching exploitation films, and Eli is dressed up as giant baby is bringing them cocktails and massaging their feets. That's what it means in the begining when it says Quentin Tarantino Presents... a favor for his pool boy.
Total, utter BULLSHIT by Moa Kaka	Jun 6th, 2007 01:14:27 PM
"Most of the time, when we get leaked stuff - it's leaked SPECIFICALLY to us - and we respect our sources and the filmmakers to not further leak that material." Who the hell makes you immune from copyright laws? Either you support this type of crap, or you don't. Don't be a hypocrite and say you don't support it - but if it involves you and your cronies, then it's ok. Oh, and Hostel I sucked. Hostel II will suck, too. If you get off on torture porn, then you need therapy.
Darth Sicilian... by dcut75	Jun 6th, 2007 01:18:16 PM
The reason these movies work is because the viewer does not revel in the torture. It's the discomfort that these scenes cause that create tension.
Some people can make "torture porn" and it works... by RevSick	Jun 6th, 2007 01:25:58 PM
...Cannibal Hollocaust was the first one that comes to mind, that movie was told in two tales the tale of the people looking for the film makers then those people watching the film, it's graphic and hard to watch but is really a great film. The Hostel films just seem like cheap knock offs in my opinion of better films I mean let's be honest here the whole premise of these films is the horror movie equivelant of Fight Club only instead of kicking each others ass they murder/torture people. Hostel's entire thing is let's take the torture of movies like Bloodsucking Freaks and Wizard of Gore and meld it with some of the concepts in Fight Club and voila! you got a horror movie. I give Eli a big fat E for effort but there's nothing original here and frankly his films are not that deep.
Sane people don't pay money to see movies like this by Ricky Henderson	Jun 6th, 2007 01:28:21 PM
What possible good can come from watching women get tortured senseless? I'm no moral authority, but the idea of watching something like that sickens me.
What's with the lack of respect for Harry? by TORTURE PWN	Jun 6th, 2007 01:40:11 PM
The guy starts a website for movie fans to talk about the movies HE deems worthy of talking about and he gets a raft of shit for it.It's one thing to bitch because you don't care for a movie but something else entirely when the guy who essentially lets you into HIS house gets shit on by a bunch of people who simply don't share his taste for a particular MOVIE.You run around like a bunch of spoiled little asshole kids bitching about "Where'd our LOST talkback go?"and How's come that hack Eli Roth gets so much attention?"as if you think you're fucking entitled(you're NOT).You're only HERE by Harry's graces.Insulting the man,and it's not even "good natured",shows a severe lack of maturity,especially when it comes from people who assume they have some kind of "moral high ground" about the content of a fictional MOVIE.If you don't like Roth/HOSTEL then just fuck off to another forum,or better yet,another website.See how many other sites put up with your pathetic,spoiled little bitch attitudes.You don't shit where you eat.If you don't like the way things are run here...There's the door.You won't be missed.
Revsick... by dcut75	Jun 6th, 2007 01:42:44 PM
Your post confused me a bit. Are you bashing Fight Club and praising Bloodsucking Freaks?
Ricky Henderson by dcut75	Jun 6th, 2007 01:45:41 PM
So, everyone who goes to the movie this weekend is insane? That's a bit broad don't ya think? I gotta be honest, I hated Cabin Fever, thought Hostel was good. I was going to wait for dvd to see part 2, but I'm going to the theater just to spite people like you.
Torture Pwn.... by RevSick	Jun 6th, 2007 01:47:42 PM
...it has to do with a level of trust people have built up with this site over many years. When that trust is betrayed (i.e. the percieved notion of schilling films for personal friends who have made said films i.e. Eli Roth when said film is possibly of poor quality) then there is a back lash from those who have been burned by such spurious activity. As I said early I don't come here for the reviews as alot of them are suspect to me I come here for the news and talkback. And frankly having worked in the internet reviewer community I've seen how easily people are wooed into positive spin on a flick just because a studio, director, or producer blows smoke up their ass. Part of why I don't review anymore was because I was percieved as being "too hard" on the films that where bad even though they were bad films, but that's what happens when your editor is too busy trying to get his own movie made and doesn't want too piss off potential connections in the industry.
Let claify, the torture scenes do not offended me by AllPowerfulWizardOfOz	Jun 6th, 2007 01:48:30 PM
That's not what I dislike about Roth films. I just dislike the way he makes his films. They are bland. I've seen plenty of movies with extreme gore and marvel at the special effects end of it so it's not that. I could care less about that stuff to be honest. I just don't like movies that bore me to tears and have no fun factor. While I will marvel at Transformers in all it's special effects glory without one shed of concern if the story is going to suck it's just different for me personally when it comes to horror. I want gore when appropriate but I also want a strong story that will scare or entertain me and neither Cabin Fever or Hostel had either.
couple notes by The Real MiraJeff	Jun 6th, 2007 01:49:51 PM
1. I haven't seen Hostel 2. 2. I haven't seen Bogeyman. 3. I personally like Eli Roth not because of his movies but because of his outspoken personality and one of the leaders of the genre, which he is, whether you want to believe it or not. I liken him to Mark Cuban. A lot of people hate Cuban because he's so outspoken and takes the attention off his team to the point of distraction, but I think Cuban is brilliant, as both a movie producer, a businessman, and I think he's good for the NBA. He's the kind of owner guys wanna play for and he makes following the league fun because he's not afraid to sound off and speak his mind. I like how guys like Quentin and Eli aren't press shy. They're promoting themselves as much as the movies. I like that the guy doesn't shy away from a dialogue with his fans. He doesn't sit in his mansion counting his money like some of these big-name directors. He's accessible and that's all you can ask for. I've never met Eli and like I said, he hasn't even made a film I consider 'good' yet. So don't start accusing me of being the guy's schill, I just like his personality and energy. We both grew up in the same sort of area and I look to him as an inspiration of sorts. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. The guy's not my favorite filmmaker or anything but I think he's kinda cool. Sue me.
did ever occur to anyone by dcut75	Jun 6th, 2007 01:50:04 PM
that maybe Harry really did like the movie. It's getting good reviews elswere ya know
No, what I'm saying is.... by RevSick	Jun 6th, 2007 01:51:12 PM
...the concept of hostel is basically taking the most basic idea of Fight Club (i.e. secret group who does something unorthodox in Fight Club it was fighting that turned into outward acts of violence then to blowing up buildings, in hostel it's a group of people who want to torture people both are a secret little club) and then mixed it with the wanton torture that exists in movie like Bloodsucking Freaks (which Eli does the commentary on the Troma DVD) and Wizard of Gore.
"Let me clarify" is what I meant to say. by AllPowerfulWizardOfOz	Jun 6th, 2007 01:51:26 PM
Harry again give us an edit button, PLEASE. Why is that only you get to edit your stories or posts and we don't? Give us the same courtosy.
I really like Eli Roth, but..... by SteffanLongdon	Jun 6th, 2007 01:52:49 PM
The 'Hot Fuzz boys', yes the 'Hot Fuzz boys'. It was a good film and a good film only. Shaun Of The Dead was good that's it, but AICN are guilty most the 'Hot Fuzz boys' overkill. Harry, i'm with you on Eli Roth.
I never said anyone on the site was schilling... by RevSick	Jun 6th, 2007 01:57:56 PM
...I was answering a question to Torture Pwn as that is why alot of talkbackers personally attack the writers on this site. I'm sure Hostel 2 is competantly directed, Eli can hit his beats but I don't think there's anything amazing to his films what so ever, as I said earlier their ok in a direct to video kind of way but nothing better than anything else I've seen in the genre. Hell Nekromantic has more going for it because it's just batshit crazy different but I digress.
RevSick,I understand what you mean by "feeling burned" by TORTURE PWN	Jun 6th, 2007 02:00:23 PM
But there are plenty of ways for a semi-intelligent person to offer rebuttal than biting the hand that feeds.To reiterate what I said,running around like a spoiled little brat and taking personal jabs at Harry & the staff like spoiled little bitches with misguided senses of entitlement is what's sure to ruin the integrity of this site.Not Harry & co.'s choice in movies to pimp.
Also,RevSick,regarding your analogies to by TORTURE PWN	Jun 6th, 2007 02:06:24 PM
FIGHT CLUB,BLOODSUCKING FREAKS,& WIZARD OF GORE:Since(as Harry has often pointed out)the idea for HOSTEL came from an actual website and Roth's own experiences,it's far more likely that Roth simply took that concept & worked backward to fill in the plot.I doubt those aforementioned movies even entered his mind.
I JUST HEARD A RADIO AD FOR "HOSTEL 2" by CopOnTheEdge	Jun 6th, 2007 02:09:23 PM
and it was stomach-turning. Nothing but sounds of women screaming, a man LAUGHING, flesh ripping, and the climactic CHAINSAW, which is SO unique. In short, it was reveling in human torture and mutilation, offered NO story or character information. That's how they're marketing this movie, and it's sick. And you can't tell me that Eli Roth (or QT, whose name is prominently spoken in the ad) has no say whatsoever in the marketing. But it's okay, because they're AWARE they're making exploitation, and it's for the exploitation audience, right? Not this movie fan.
TORTURE PWN by Garbageman33	Jun 6th, 2007 02:22:23 PM
I agree with you that Harry is like the host of a party. But occasionally, he's the kind of host that drunkenly gropes your wife. And even though he was kind enough to invite you over in the first place, you kinda have to call him on it.
Harry, Read it and Weep by turnedacorner	Jun 6th, 2007 02:23:09 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C hannon_Christian_and_Christoph er_Newsom_murder
A movie that partially takes place in a dungeon in a by TORTURE PWN	Jun 6th, 2007 02:29:48 PM
dirt poor country isn't allowed to be "shitty looking and gritty?"
"Torture Porn"has to be the most idiotic phrase ever by TORTURE PWN	Jun 6th, 2007 02:36:48 PM
attributed to a work of fiction.Porn,by its nature, contains REAL fucking.Torture Porn would then have to contain REAL torture.Grow up.Really.That little buzz-word is soooooooo played.
Copon Edge by skimn	Jun 6th, 2007 02:37:19 PM
Remember this is the movie that had a gristly slab of meat as the teaser poster. Yea, real character empathy there also. To Harry and Mirajeff ( whom I loosely quote as wanting to see Weinerdog sliced open like a Thanksgiving turkey, while a hot babe bathes in her blood beneath, oops more character empathy there.. ), I don't care what the characters motivations are, what horror films Roth may emulate ( thanks for the IMDB stats Harry ), what the audience reaction and "favorite kills" are, who wins in the end. This movie is marketed EXACTLY as torture porn, the slab of meat a perfect visual metaphor. Its just as crude as the jizz shots on the cover of a porn tape,ie. "there may be some plot, but we all know why your coming to see this..for the money shots.."I liked Cabin Fever and thought it was cleverly constructed. This just targets its tone to be basest desires possible.
So MiraJeff, you like Roth because he talks to you? by Ricky Henderson	Jun 6th, 2007 02:39:19 PM
An accessible movie director is a nice trait, yes, but it doesn't excuse this exploitation garbage. Stalin was a real charmer too, ya know?
Eli IS pretty stand up when it comes to fans by BitterMan23	Jun 6th, 2007 02:45:58 PM
At the fango con the dude was still signing shit as his handlers rushed him out of the room. Bit of a blowhard, yes, but at least he will do as much as he can to provide whatever thrill people get from getting an autograph. Rob Zombie, on the other hand, literally ran off the stage and out of the building and left it to Fangoria to tell all HIS fans that he wouldn't be signing (the Halloween panel was the only one all weekend that didnt sign for fans, btw).
There are more people in this talkback by Garbageman33	Jun 6th, 2007 02:52:34 PM
Than there will be in most of the theaters showing Hostel 2. I mean, if Grindhouse can't make any money despite LEGITIMATELY good reviews and two talented directors, what chance does this piece of shit have? Shill away, gents. It may take the box office from $30 million all the way to $31 million.
Good review, allthough... by viranth	Jun 6th, 2007 02:55:42 PM
I don't really agree with the praise. I found it to be lacking a bit from the first movie. You know, since the first movie was so brilliant, how can you top that? He shouldn't have shown how it's being operated, the tattoo and all that crap. It all helped making it seem so far out, were the first movie hid all that from the viewer and you had all these questions. When the movie gives you all the answers, it will never be as good.
"play'd with the genre and pay'd due's" by Schih Thayde	Jun 6th, 2007 02:55:43 PM
ar'e yo'u retard'd? Dou'cheba'g.
What morons are taking dates to this movie? by Ricky Henderson	Jun 6th, 2007 02:56:14 PM
Seriously, I want to meet the guy who thinks it's a terrific idea to bring their lady friend to see a movie featuring the torture of women. Yeah honey, forget "Knocked Up," we're going to see a snuff film this weekend instead! Marry me wench! Now!
Fuck rob zombie by TORTURE PWN	Jun 6th, 2007 02:58:20 PM
If any "director" deserves ridiculous amouts of hatred it's that asshat.He's already a has-been just not enough people knoe it yet.
^ I'll try proofread next time by TORTURE PWN	Jun 6th, 2007 02:59:50 PM
I swear
Torture PWN by Schih Thayde	Jun 6th, 2007 03:11:41 PM
I knoe you wil, buddy. I just knoe it.
on Eli by TheUltraHumanite	Jun 6th, 2007 03:21:17 PM
c'mon!
Torture Pwn is an idiot / I end the debate on this film by ScamsAndFlams	Jun 6th, 2007 03:24:48 PM
You claim that porn is only porn because it's real fucking. So you're saying that animated, drawn, and computer generated images of graphic sex aren't pornography? Oh, and I watched Hostel 2. It's absolute fucking dogshit regardless of your stance on its morality. But since you all care so much about the ethics of the film, I'll give you the factual answer: Hostel 2 is not "torture porn" because its gore is ludicrous and less voyeuristic. Hostel 1 is indeed torture porn, and I have more disgust for the fan base of that movie than I do for its creators. THAT IS THE FUCKING ANSWER, NOW SHUT UP.
Oh and if you don't like the coverage of Hostel 2 by ScamsAndFlams	Jun 6th, 2007 03:31:06 PM
Stop reading this site. They've clearly drawn a line in the sand, so if you really can't stand overblown coverage of utterly terrible films made by their lame buddies, don't direct your web browsers to this URL.
ScamsAndFlams is a whiny idiot by TORTURE PWN	Jun 6th, 2007 03:37:23 PM
There's a lot of disgust flowing your way too,moron.
You know who else hates Eli Roth??? by tehgreekhammer	Jun 6th, 2007 03:42:59 PM
Mel Gibson.
"perhaps horror isn’t your genre"!? by Sleeping Pilot	Jun 6th, 2007 03:45:21 PM
Hey Harry, I really don't like the insinuation that if I don't like Eli Roth and your defence of his work than I don't get "horror". I fucking love horror, especially zombie flicks. As you said later in this TB, this is all subjective. So please don't get up on your high horse and try to dictate to me what genres I do or do not "get" based on my opinion of one director’s work. "(Roth) made the most solid sequel this summer with fresh characters, story and the best ENDING thus far this summer" You got to be kidding! Did you not see 28 weeks later? Now that was a solid sequel (not just for horror), with real characters, and a fresh and relevant story. And just because your movie references another (much better film) doesn't automatically make your movie any better. Edgar Wright might be able to give Roth some pointers on how to do homages and reference films because clearly Tarantino is talking too fast for Roth. Oh and the defence that most of the violence only occurs near the end of the film and therefore the film must have done a lot of character development, elevating it above porn is amusing. One of the biggest porn franchises in the world is BangBus and every episode has about an hour of "talk" before any real porn begins, does that mean it BangBus is "art" with well drawn characters? No, it is just porn with a lot of build-up. In sum - HOSTEL = a BangBros production.
LOL greekhammer by BitterMan23	Jun 6th, 2007 03:47:09 PM
excellent.
Everything in horror today is supposedly... by RevSick	Jun 6th, 2007 03:50:43 PM
...based on some real thing someone read somewhere it's a fucking gimick. And those analogies are my opinion I did not state them as fact I stated them as an opinion, to me it's all stuff I've seen in other movies and done either better or at least alot more fun frankly. Hostel 1 bored me for the first hour cause if I want nothing but Tits and Ass I'll watch porn thank you very much, and frankly the film isn't as bad as people make it out to be. It's more the subject matter that I think has people up in arms over the content. It sounds like, from what I've read, pretty much the same thing as before, crazy kids check, couple of tourists check, asshat rich guys looking to torture people check. Formulaic at best, if he really wanted to spin it he should have made the torturers women as well, but he didn't he just figured the audience would care more about hot chicks then a bunch of dudes. Hell at least the first one had that going for it the main victims of the film where three guys not a bunch of sorrority girls and in fact it was women who tricked them into the whole thing, so in a way the first is a superior film in that it at least stepped away from the usual cliche of going after a bunch of ditsy girls.
I guess Bloody-disgusting.com doesn't get horror either by BitterMan23	Jun 6th, 2007 04:13:51 PM
or Shocktillyoudrop. They didnt like it either. Maybe they should rethink their business model?
p.s. BOTH sites' writers are very friendly with Eli by BitterMan23	Jun 6th, 2007 04:16:23 PM
for the record.
Review of each major death *SPOILERS* by MyManD316	Jun 6th, 2007 04:22:49 PM
Obviously there are gonna be some fucking **spoilers so beware. Only for the curioous Once again - SPOILERS SPOILERS 1. Paxton getting beheaded. You don't even get to see it so what can I say? Cat licking the exposed neck was lame. 2. Blood shower. There's a lot of blood, two sets of tits and a shitload of screaming. Although the act itself takes its time to show the girl's agony, she was such a horrible character to begin with that I just didn't care. Plus, the scythe action was lame and, well, there wasn't ENOUGH blood. It would have been better if the scythes were used more methodically over a bathtub. 3. Kid getting shot in woods. Again, you don't see it and the aftermath was lacking any gore. 4. Cocky villain getting chomped on by dogs. AGAIN you don't actually see the act, only the aftermath. Lots of guts and chewed body parts. Really nice effects, but again, the gorehound in me wanted more lingering. 5. Cannibalism. This was the ONLY WTF kill where the guy is kept alive while being eaten from the feet up. Really nice effects and it was the only shot in the movie that took its time to show off the gore. 6. Girl chainsawed to the face. Nothing really to write home about, just a lot of blood and some disfigurement. When she's actually killed, you again don't see it. 7. Castration scene. YAAAWWWN. I expected so much more. Good effects and all, but not that graphic. 8. That lesbian getting beheaded in the woods. The actual beheading was rather tame, but the kids playing soccer with it afterwards was a nice touch. SPOILERS END**
Sleeping Pilot, on a solid sequel - 28 WEEKS LATER by LoneGun	Jun 6th, 2007 04:27:02 PM
I couldn't agree more. 28 WEEKS LATER was rock solid. How often do we get a horror film on this magnificent scale? Rarely has there been a movie that offered such a terrifying and plausible vision of 'Hell on Earth'. Now, THAT was a great sequel.
Kudos Harry! by Lando Griffin	Jun 6th, 2007 04:29:59 PM
Although your Fox/Rothman jihad irritates me (not that its not somewhat justified but you take it to the extreme) and most of the time your reviews are incomprehensible and immature, even by my high standards, this was the best review you've written in a while. As a spiteful individual I also love the way you are rubbing the whiny, bitchy talkbackers noses in their own shit and taking the fight to them. Harry you have officially won me over! (For the record I thought the first Hostel was just a'ight. I liked Cabin Fever as it reminded me of the little films my buds and I used to have fun making as a teen. And I like Roth on a personal level because of his enthousiasm and openess) So suck it haters! Suck it long! Suck it hard!
So Lando by MyManD316	Jun 6th, 2007 04:31:38 PM
Do you actually like the movie or are you just having a fun time sucking Harry's cock?
I like...... by gomez33	Jun 6th, 2007 04:32:11 PM
LaneMyersClassic, my personal faves are: Evil Dead (1,2), Suspiria, The Thing, The Tenant, The omen and 2 thousand maniacs. Roth exploits the genre.
If you think......... by SteffanLongdon	Jun 6th, 2007 04:40:50 PM
Harry's up Eli's ass, you try and go in the AICN chatroom. There's some real asslickers in there.
HOSTEL worked for me... by FilmNerdJamie	Jun 6th, 2007 04:41:22 PM
I actually thought HOSTEL was a masterfully-made horror film; a bit disappointed that Paxton gets disposed of so quickly in the sequel. I was kinda hoping it would center around him a bit more before he's offed (i.e. Janet Leigh style!)
Hostel films are basically Star Wars prequels by ScamsAndFlams	Jun 6th, 2007 04:41:59 PM
Eps. 1-3 were just endless CG shots of aliens and spaceships blowing up with wooden acting and a "plot" no one cared about. What Lucas failed to realize was that while Star Wars fans love cool special effects and weird aliens, those alone do not make a good film. Similarly, Roth seems to think that a horror film can be conjured up with some creative gore. He's wrong, and his movies suck ass. Except Cabin Fever, which had some great character moments and much, much less gore.
I don't dislike eli,i hoped he'd do a fine horrormovie by rygel	Jun 6th, 2007 04:56:44 PM
but he didn't imo.IMO he just replaced 3 guys with 3 girls and did a boring,not very violent sequel to hostel 1. better luck next time. I am expecting not very much of eli in the future.cabin fever was boring,hostel surprised me,and hostel 2 bored me to death. just my 2 cents.
MyManD316, you torture me in an exploitave manner with by Lando Griffin	Jun 6th, 2007 05:05:18 PM
your wit. I mean a guy sucking another guys cock? Where do you get this stuff? (Other than personal experiences with daddy touching you) If it weren't for your obvious lack of basic reading comprehension I would suggest you apply your obvious gift of comedy to Hollywood but the world isn't ready for you or your humorous take on guys sucking other guys cocks. You're dangerous.
So... by MyManD316	Jun 6th, 2007 05:14:47 PM
You still danced around the question. Do you actually like the movie? Oh, and be careful to lick the taint. I hear that drives guys crazy.
Reading comprehension by Lando Griffin	Jun 6th, 2007 05:18:29 PM
google it
And for the record... by MyManD316	Jun 6th, 2007 05:20:05 PM
You started the dick sucking talk. Remember - "So suck it haters! Suck it long! Suck it hard!" I guess the world's not ready for EITHER of us. Oh, and what's wrong with my dad touching me? It's called parental love, but I guess latchkey children wouldn't understand.
Bwahahaha he said "taint" by Lando Griffin	Jun 6th, 2007 05:25:00 PM
and made more allusions to homosexual acts. You're spinning pure gold there buddy. Seriously shouldn't you be working on your B-movie screenplay or sitcom pilot rather than wasting your time in these talkbacks savagely, verbally assaulting a defenseless faggot like me. I do like it rough though so keep at it. The safe word is "torture porn"...no, wait, wait, wait...the safe word is "taint" (oh god that never stops being funny - Taint! get it? It obviously funny and hip!)
I don't know what's more sad, Lando... by MyManD316	Jun 6th, 2007 05:27:49 PM
You not understanding the question, or you not understanding your own post. I asked you a simple question and two posts later you STILL haven't answered. You said you liked the review, you liked Harry, you liked Hostel and you liked Cabine Fever. That's all. So, friend, do you like Hostel 2 or not?
So we both agree... by MyManD316	Jun 6th, 2007 05:32:21 PM
That you're a fag, then? Great, I'll get busy on that B-movie script now, Teenage Mutant Ninja Taints. I'm thinking Bruce Campbell.
I apologize MyManD316 by Lando Griffin	Jun 6th, 2007 05:41:26 PM
In all seriousness sometimes I forget that the most likely answer is the most obvious one. In your case you're just really fucking stupid. There's no need to get all philosophical, funny, witty or sarcastic. You're just plain ol' dumb. If you go back and read my original post, which got you in such a combination of manic frenzy and horniness you may see that I made no mention of seeing Hostel 2 or liking it or not because (and this is where I may lose you seeing as it's the most obvious and reasonable answer)I HAVEN"T FUCKING SEEN IT YET! TODAY IS JUNE 6th AND THE MOVIE DOES NOT OPEN NATIONALLY, THEATRICALLY UNTIL JUNE 8th! (Step 1: Read, Step 2: Comprehend) Not all of us are brilliant comedy writers, such as yourself, and get advance screening tickets - though are cocksucking or taint licking part of that deal? If so could you possibly teach me the ropes? You take your dad, I'll take your mom.
Calm down, dude... by MyManD316	Jun 6th, 2007 05:46:52 PM
You seem angry. If you're that desperate to be in Teenage Mutant Ninja Taints, I think the role of Salad Tosser #5 is still open. I'll have my people contact yours. Chill, you'll be hooked up.
You two need to get a room by Garbageman33	Jun 6th, 2007 05:56:24 PM
You're taking valuable time away from the Harry bashing.
Yes, we are in agreement by Lando Griffin	Jun 6th, 2007 05:56:30 PM
if "fag" is the very antithesis of everything you are then I am the flamiest flamer living on the sun. Hahahahaha "Teenage Mutant Ninja Taints" Hahahaha. Is there like a switch you are able to just turn on and off with this obvious comedic gift you have? Or is just like drawing on a bottomless well? Seriously you better option that shit before someone else does!
I just got off the phone with Humor by Lando Griffin	Jun 6th, 2007 06:00:19 PM
and he wants me to slip you his number MyManD316. He said between taints and brainstorming perhaps you guys could work something out.
Harry, here`s how we fix this banning situation... by Man_of_Stool	Jun 6th, 2007 06:01:53 PM
Gimme a job. I`m a good writer. And my perspective differs from yours in many ways. What do you think? What do my fellow talkbackers think?
In all seriousness... by MyManD316	Jun 6th, 2007 06:09:26 PM
Let's get back to the topic at hand. Hostel 2 is a weak movie, Harry is a douchebag for saying people who don't like it are idiots and now I'm very fearful Cell is going to be a bad movie. Taint humour can only go so long before somebody bursts a nutsack (okay, that's the LAST genital joke I crack). You say you respect Harry for sticking it to people who don't like the movie, but what if you watch it on the 8th and find out you HATE it? Wouldn't that then make you one of the blathering idiots Harry points out?
Taint = Funny...in moderation by Lando Griffin	Jun 6th, 2007 06:17:08 PM
You know it to be true
Technically... by MyManD316	Jun 6th, 2007 06:20:15 PM
You used the word more than me.
MyManD316 by Lando Griffin	Jun 6th, 2007 06:38:02 PM
Within the context of this week, all the Hostel/Roth hate and normal talkback doings - I felt the need to give Harry props for taking the "fight" to the bitchers. He presented his arguments in an informed and (for him) mature manner. Compared to his normal messy, worthless reviews this one was above the rest. And when I refer to "bitchers" I am not referring to everyone who dislikes Roth and his movies I am talking about the ones whose "arguments" are nothing more than posts of "Roth is a hack" or "if you like torture porn you are sick". There's not much depth to those. Harry is actually taking time out to address the valid criticisms which he usually doesn't do.
Torture Pwn by Dominic-Vobiscum	Jun 6th, 2007 06:40:24 PM
I'm someone who uses the term "torture porn" in the pejorative sense, but I also feel the term is used inappropriately far too often to dismiss a film that the labeller finds distateful. Pornography is something without artistic merit. So "torture porn" is a film which uses violence purely to titillate and has no redeeming artistic merit. I do not feel The Hostel films (even though I admit to not having seen them) are "torture porn" because there IS an intended subtext to the films. The same way that Ichi the Killer made me feel nauseous and dirty, but the over the top violence was clearly used as a statement AGAINST violence and living your life for revenge. Or how the graphic double rape in Ms. 45 was used to make me sympathize with the lead character so I'd root for her when she goes on her psycho cock shooting spree. There is a very real possibility that Roth is a total mysogonist who actually thinks he made some sort of feminist manifesto with Hostel II instead of a subconciously mysognistic explotation film. It still doesn't make his films "torture porn". I should also point out, that I refuse to classify anything without a supernatural element as true "horror". Movies like Last House on the Left, Hostel, and Devil's Rejects all fall into "drama", sub-classification "thriller", sub-sub-classification "explotation" to me. Also, I've always liked your username.
There is no subtext to Hostel films by ScamsAndFlams	Jun 6th, 2007 06:49:02 PM
If you think there is subtext, you don't know what the word 'subtext' means. Romero's films have subtext. Halloween has subtext. Shit, even Saw has subtext (subtext can be obvious and stupid, too). Hostel has none. Not even botched or cheesy subtext. None. Even the gore in Hostel 2 has no real thematic relevance to its characters. The torture scenes are like unrelated sketches placed in the middle of a high school melodrama. The Hills Have Eyes remake was better than this, and good lord was that movie bad.
ScamsAndFlams by Dominic-Vobiscum	Jun 6th, 2007 06:57:20 PM
Roth has said many times there was intended subtext to the films. Whether it was handled deftly or not is a whole other can o' worms. I might some day watch the films and say, "Good Lord that Eli Roth is a freaking hack and his movies are complete shit", but again...that's a completely different argument than to simply dismiss the movie as "torture porn" simply because it is an amatuerishly crafted piece of explotation cinema. The same as saying that Roth is an arrogant self-aggrandizing pompous mysogonistic asshole. It might be true, but it has nothing to do with whether the film has any artistic merit or not.
Lando by MyManD316	Jun 6th, 2007 07:13:20 PM
I see and I guess that's understandable.
Subtext by MyManD316	Jun 6th, 2007 07:14:47 PM
Hostel 1 - American arrogance/ignorance. Hostel 2 - Money can buy you ANYTHING. Yep, these movies are DEEP.
come on eli by justin s	Jun 6th, 2007 07:28:11 PM
tooroth looroth tooroth looroth yaaaah... eli I'll hum this tune forever... come on eli, I swear (well he means) at this moment, your movie really sucks balls... the script is a mess, my thoughts (I confess) verge on puking... ah come on eli
All you Fucking... by Cigsandcoffee1756	Jun 6th, 2007 07:46:57 PM
Hostel hating bitches might as well meet in the streets and have a pro Censorship rally. You fucking fascist un-american shit. Don't see it if it bothers you but shut the fuck up with your opinions about it. God damn reading these talkbacks has been infuriating. I bunch of idiot fucks spewing there opinons out like facts. Morons.
What about... by MyManD316	Jun 6th, 2007 07:50:30 PM
People like me who thinks Hostel 2 is too watered down?
Roth's Balls by greatmoose	Jun 6th, 2007 07:51:26 PM
What I want to see is if Roth has the "balls" to make a Hostel-type movie about rape. Wouldn't that have the same level of "social commentary" and "intelligence"? And how would a movie about people going around and raping women (or men, whatever) be any different from what Hostel and its ilk are? I truly am curious if you torture defenders see a difference, and what that might be.
Weiner Dog by Kirbymanly	Jun 6th, 2007 07:59:33 PM
I just watched that scene where she's hanging upside down and shit...and WOW. How the fuck is that entertaining? Its not even SCARY! It was fucking TEDIOUS to sit through. Okay, it wasn't in the context of the film...but I can't see how it can get any better within it. I'm sorry, I love horror movies, but anyone who likes that shit is fucking sick. However, I suppose its good that its out there because it gives sick bastards some form of release.
You are sick. Messed up sickos. Torture porn is sick by AvengingFist	Jun 6th, 2007 08:06:55 PM
Torture porn sick.
I think you all are getting confused... by pjdon	Jun 6th, 2007 08:23:41 PM
I like what you call 'torture porn' because it makes me uneasy, it is hard to watch, that is the appeal. It creates strong emotions like all horror should. Someone who is sick does not have these uncomfortable emotions, they enjoy the images on screen. They would like to act them out. I love movies like Saw and Hostel because I find myself trying to cover my eyes and my heart starts racing. If I was sick I would just be sitting with a smile on my face.
The violence in something like the John Rambo by pjdon	Jun 6th, 2007 08:29:09 PM
is infinately more 'porn' like as you are cheering him on laughing as he kills more and more people. In something like Hostel you are placing yourself in the victims shoes and hat is a decidely less sick perspective.
The "context" of the upside down bleeding: by ScamsAndFlams	Jun 6th, 2007 08:29:24 PM
There is none. It just cuts to that scene and then to another unrelated scene.
Dominic-Vobiscum by ScamsAndFlams	Jun 6th, 2007 08:33:04 PM
Yes but I can intend to run a marathon and only make it 10 miles. Whatever Roth may say he intended, there is no subtext. MyManD316 gave you what he saw as the shallow subtext of each film but honestly those "thematic elements" really fit the criteria for being a true subtext. Which is exactly my point--you can attach a "subtext" to absolutely anything, but that does not make it so in editorial or artistic terms.
Woops by ScamsAndFlams	Jun 6th, 2007 08:35:44 PM
I meant to say that those elements DO NOT really fit the criteria for being subtext.
It doesn't even have to have by pjdon	Jun 6th, 2007 08:37:00 PM
'subtext' or 'context' it can just be played for the tension of the moment. A joke in a film doesn't have to have context or subtext to be funny. Why should a horror torture scene have to have it to build tension?
Snuff isnt Entertainment by davdob	Jun 6th, 2007 08:38:14 PM
Unlike most of what I have read here, I will fully concede I havent seen this movie, and I wont be seeing it. Unfortunately, I did see the clip of the upside down torture bleed kill. As many have pointed out, there is no "context" in the world that I can imagine that would justify presenting a hyperrealistic simulation of a snuff film as mainstream entertainment. Do I think every person that likes the movie is a sick pervert? No. But, if this kind of scene can pass as legit mainstream artistic expression, that is appalling to me.
davdob like I said you are supposed to be feeling by pjdon	Jun 6th, 2007 08:47:21 PM
bad for the person being tortured, it's not like you are watching it just for visual pleasure. It is not artistic expression in the same way someone being eaten by a shark in jaws in not artistic expression. It is a device to create maximum tension in the viewer. Like I said the reason I enjoy it is because I don't like what I am seeing, it creates adreniline in the same way someone being chased in a film does. The fact that in this sort of film there is more blood just makes the build up more uncomfortable and therefore more enjoyable. And Snuff is when the footage is supposed to be real.
A shame Harry gave up on this TB by BitterMan23	Jun 6th, 2007 08:51:57 PM
Most of the things id actually care about his response to were all posted after he left.
GIMMICK by haitu	Jun 6th, 2007 09:04:22 PM
thats all it is. ultra violent and ultra shocking gore. just plain ol' gimmick without anything to save the gimmick.
bitterman by justin s	Jun 6th, 2007 09:05:23 PM
you'd be too busy to respond, too, if you had 7000 friends.
Hey Harry by TattooedBillionaire	Jun 6th, 2007 09:06:13 PM
Cool review. I didn't like Hostel much, but I'm willing to give Eli another chance. He respects horror movies and seems like a cool guy, so I'm pulling for him to suceed.
Forget about Hostel...BUG is the greatest ever. by Bronx Cheer	Jun 6th, 2007 09:34:08 PM
My goodness what a great film.
"I AM THE SUPER MOTHER BUG!" by Bronx Cheer	Jun 6th, 2007 09:35:50 PM
Seriously, BUG was the worst movie I have seen in twenty years. There's no way that Hostel 2 is anywhere near as bad. Give Roth a break! He didn't direct BUG.
Trying again, with spaces! by Sleeping Pilot	Jun 6th, 2007 09:43:59 PM
Hey Harry, I really don't like the insinuation that if I don't like Eli Roth and your defence of his work than I don't get "horror". I fucking love horror, especially zombie flicks. As you said later in this TB, its all subjective. So please don't get up on your high horse and try to dictate to me what genres I do or do not "get" based on my opinion of one director’s work. < br > "(Roth) made the most solid sequel this summer with fresh characters, story and the best ENDING thus far this summer" You got to be kidding! Did you not see 28 weeks later? Now that was a solid sequel (not just for horror), with real characters, and a fresh and relevant story. < br > And just because your movie references another (much better film) doesn't automatically make your movie any better. Edgar Wright might be able to give Roth some pointers on how to do homages and reference films because clearly Tarantino is talking too fast for Roth. < br > Oh and the defence that most of the violence only occurs near the end of the film and therefore the film must have done a lot of character development, elevating it above porn is amusing. One of the biggest porn franchises in the world is BangBus and every episode has about an hour of "talk" before any real porn begins, does that mean it BangBus is "art" with well drawn characters? No, it is just porn with a lot of build-up. In sum - HOSTEL = a BangBros production.
Godamn it! by Sleeping Pilot	Jun 6th, 2007 09:45:32 PM
...
Response to pjdon by davdob	Jun 6th, 2007 09:56:11 PM
I understand your point, and in most cases I would agree. But that scene is more than just a depiction of something bad (or even horrid) happening. It is an intentionally fetishised act of sexual violence shown in hyperrealistic detail. Jaws is violent, and it very effectively creates tension, but it doesnt turn violence into a sexual fetish. This by design does, and its repulsive to me. This is why I say its a hyperrealistic simulation of snuff (obviously it isnt really snuff). It fetishises the suffering of the victim for the titillation of the audience. I don't dig that.
davdob I thought that the scene was by pjdon	Jun 6th, 2007 10:06:11 PM
showing the act to be a horrific thing though. I watch it and it disturbs me, I feel bad for the victim and hope that she will survive. I think a sick person would see it as a fetish titilation. A sane person would see it as entertainment in the sense that they are being made to feel uncomfortable and frightened by what is happening. Like i said earlier something like John Rambo is more of a sick fetish because most people would be cheering the violence on as a positive thing. I doubt many sane people would be cheering the person doing the torturing.
Insert Content of Harry Knowles Review HERE by heywood jablomie	Jun 6th, 2007 10:06:52 PM
You know, I know what people are thinking. Sure, ____________________'s last movie was a piece of shit. When I saw those silly-ass posters with the _________________________ next to the dog in the fireman's hat and the ________________, I said, "Hey! This might be disappointing." I was in no mood to flip out over ___________. But then I sat down, guzzled a bucket of Shiners, ate two jalapeno personal-pan pizzas, and you know what I discovered, gentle reader? ______________________________ KICKS FUCKING ARSE!!! _____________________________ SKULLFUCKED MY MOTHER AND MADE ME LOVE IT!!! ______________________________ __ REALLY ISN'T A HACKITY-HACK-HACK AFTER ALL! ______________________________ ___ is, in point of fact, the best film of the 21st century.
dcut, This Is One Case... by Rebeck3	Jun 6th, 2007 10:16:00 PM
Where I will pull age-rank on you. "The Thing - One of my all time favorites. One of the best horror films ever made. It also bombed at the box office and was trashed by critics, many of whom called it pornography." I commend you on your good taste in horror (in this instance) but no one was calling this movie pornography in 1982 (when you were 7). It bombed yes, and the critics shit all over it for being "disgusting", but no one called it porn. They were flat-ass wrong. You think we're all wrong about Hostel? I guess we'll have to wait 25 years to find out. (hint: we're not)
heywood jablomie... by beastie	Jun 6th, 2007 10:22:56 PM
I actually agree with Harry's review (seen the workprint, I admit) and I like Eli Roth's work, a lot, BUT that fucking made me laugh, because it's true the majority of the time.
Pilot, WITHOUT the spaces! by BitterMan23	Jun 6th, 2007 10:28:54 PM
Here, look: without the " without the ham etc.
Oh hahah that doesnt work either by BitterMan23	Jun 6th, 2007 10:30:25 PM
oh well. We need a preview comment thing here. Maybe after they fix the search engine. BracketBRBracket NO SPACES
oh and Harry...... by CQuest	Jun 6th, 2007 10:31:54 PM
you asked for a response, i gave one....and you never responded. typical shit.
after consciously avoiding it since it's release... by JimmyJoe RedSky	Jun 6th, 2007 11:07:37 PM
i finally saw HOSTEL - on youtube - in ten 9 minute segments - and i gotta say - i was kinda into it - its not nearly as bad as i thought it would be and not as bad as some claim it is - im not going to run out and get the dvd - but i enjoyed it - i didnt think the main characters were the "ugly tourist" stereotypes theyve been described as - sure they were crass and obnoxious at times - but they were young and in college - what college kid traveling in europe isnt obnoxious when partying and trying to get laid (shit, locals are worse) - seemed a realistic enough depiction of what a lot of people do - especially in amsterdam - i felt for them when they started disappearing - especially the silly viking that lost his head - the movie worked - because i was concerned for the "heroes" and hated and feared the "villains" - simple as that - ok, so im in europe (wherever) and i want to get high and get laid (normal, right?) - do i deserve to be tortured to death because of that? - because theres a market for that shit? - interesting premise - one mans jack off fuel is another mans painful demise - i was happy to see the 2 hookers and the pimp get run over - and the salad eater die in the toilet - very cathartic - like seeing pesci get wacked in GOODFELLAS - i was afraid of the gore - turns out it aint that gory - the "eye" was gross - but not as shocking as ive heard - actually kinda silly - the gore didnt outshine the story - harrys right - these movies, when done right, are about the victims and their escapes - how much do you care for them and whether or not they can get the fuck out - ill probably see the new one - but ill rent it or wait and see it free on youtube - the poor res doesnt hurt too much - like watching a flick thru bad tv reception
I sort of wish I could hate Roth like many of you by mr.underwater	Jun 6th, 2007 11:27:32 PM
But unfortunately, I don't find his voice strong enough to hate. Which also means it's not strong enough to love either. I found Hostel 1 to be some dude's kind of weak moralistic Miike impersonation. Number 2 played like a LaBute and Miike impersonation. And while those two have very strong voices, I can't really say the same for the imitator. Ultimately, my reaction to part 2 was the same reaction I have for every stalk-torture-kill-women movie I've sat through, sadness. Sad for the person who made it, sad for those who enjoy it. And, while I sort of appreciated the Mamet/LaBute angle he attempted to inject, it was just an impersonation, and it never managed to make it rise above every other stalk-torture-kill-women movie I've seen. If Roth really wants to make a horror movie about something other than gore, perhaps he should watch Silence of the Lambs, or watch it more closely. It's a movie that has buckets of his so-called "money shots," but in the end, those are incidental. It's truly about more than gore. And perhaps someday his movies can be too. And when that day comes, I can decide whether I love or hate him.
You guys act like you havent seen torture porn before.. by Mike_D	Jun 6th, 2007 11:36:22 PM
quit being politically correct (of ALL places on the internet, this is the LAST place I thought I'd hear complaints about nudity and gore in a horror film from talkbackers).
Haters threaten to leave AICN? PLEASE DO, FUCK OFF by Lour Reed luvs Frank Zappa	Jun 6th, 2007 11:43:54 PM
You Twats, I hope your priest sprays diarrhea all over your ugly fucking disgusting pimply faces you stupid cunts, then i hope the world goes to war and you're all fucked nuked 50 times over, please die.. and threatening to leave the site? DO IT YOU CUNTS, stop ruining talkbacks with your FUCKING DRIBBLE, it hurts my EYES to see your stupid SHIT. SOMEONE NEEDS TO TAKE A DUMP IN YOUR MOUTHS AND SHOVE IT DOWN YOUR THROAT WITH A FAT COCK, LIKE THE ONE IN THIS STORY. DON'T LIKE IT? TOUGH, GO CRY YOURSELF TO SLEEP YOU CUNTS
THIS IS FOR EVERY DUMB SHIT TB IVE SEEN ON THIS THREAD by Lour Reed luvs Frank Zappa	Jun 6th, 2007 11:44:10 PM
FUCK YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU IN YOUR TIGHT ASSHOLES
Calling All Arm-chair Filmmakers / Social Commentators. by Lour Reed luvs Frank Zappa	Jun 6th, 2007 11:44:25 PM
To the Arm-chair Filmmakers, I take a dump on your chair so when you try to sit in it and act like you fuckin' know anything, you finally smell everything that has been coming out of your herpes-lined mouth. To the Wanna-be social commentators, GO BACK TO CHURCH OR WHATEVER CIRCUS YOU CAME FROM AND DO WHAT YOU DO BEST, PERSECUTE THINGS, STOP TRYING TO ABSTRACT IT INTO ARGUMENTS THAT WILL ONLY HURT YOUR BRAIN.
ANTI-ROTH = PRO-RETARD by Lour Reed luvs Frank Zappa	Jun 6th, 2007 11:44:40 PM
and if you're reading this and want to ARGUE THAT POINT, go RIGHT AHEAD and KEEP REINFORCING IT.
ALL THIS AND IVE NEVER SEEN HOSTEL I OR II by Lour Reed luvs Frank Zappa	Jun 6th, 2007 11:44:56 PM
BUT you all STILL ARE ACTING LIKE A BUNCH OF PRICKS
A question for the fans of this sort of thing by readingwriter	Jun 6th, 2007 11:50:48 PM
Is there anything you can imagine being portrayed in this or another similar film that would make you think "OK, that went too far" and would inspire you to sit there and not congratulate the director for "breaking taboos" or whatever? No hidden agenda here, I'm genuinely curious about what fans of Hostel would think was inappropriate, and why, in terms of screen violence.
Dear God Harry by ImFixingtoDie	Jun 6th, 2007 11:52:02 PM
You actually did a fantastic job defending this movie. I almost want to see it now. You're clearly working in the ways of the devil. Still, the idea of such a passionate defense being given to such a childish and montrous enterprise, starring Richard Burgi no less, is depressing. But for what you do, this is better than you've ever done it. Eli & Quentin & Robert are lucky to have you.
Hostel AND Hostel 2 are BOTH Blu-Ray Exclusive by polyh3dron	Jun 7th, 2007 12:07:08 AM
Have fun with your HD DVDs Harry!
seeing Hostel at screening with Eli and Cast tommorow by BrightEyes	Jun 7th, 2007 12:10:50 AM
Hostel 2 will be the best summer movie!
momalicious@hotmail.com by MissCanadaa	Jun 7th, 2007 12:29:04 AM
I love you Eli, you are the talent that will save horror genre. --chat with me dude.
Harry, Telling People To Grow Up .................Never by Red Dawn Don	Jun 7th, 2007 12:41:29 AM
Never, never, never say you have 7,000 friends on myspace.com It reduces your argument to something akin to high school girls fighting by using myspace numbers. "I am more popular than her because..." Moving on, sorry to hear about your male (hostel-type) friend's death. (I am guessing an automobile accident.)
HOT FUZZ by CopOnTheEdge	Jun 7th, 2007 01:03:06 AM
Now that's a movie.
Harry, an "Astute Criticism" for you to Debate by Thom85	Jun 7th, 2007 01:04:50 AM
(sorry to repost this, but I thought maybe it'd be better if it wasn't a giant block of text) That's a hard sell after reading your review. Personally, yeah, I don't like these kinds of movies, and in large part it's because I feel it is a geek show; in other words, the filmmaker continues to show you worse and worse stuff until he gets to a point that you can't look at it anymore. That’s not horror, to me. To me horror is like Jaws, where characters are fully fleshed out, beyond archetypes, and the scares and tense scenes revolve around those characters almost getting caught/eaten/killed, and there’s nothing they can do about it. The shark in Jaws doesn’t care that Brody has a family waiting for him. It’s hungry, and Brody has put himself smack in the middle of the sharks backyard. Anyway, you said you would respond to an intelligent argument, mine being that your review does not support your claim that you go to these movies to see people escape from these scenarios. Here goes: “Then there’s Heather Matarazzo as Lorna.... What I love about this character is she’s the character that we begin to really love. I know I’ve had a friend like Lorna.” Okay, good, so you connect with the characters, like I said, I feel that’s really important for the Horror part of the genre to live up to its name. But then.... “Take the magnificent death of Heather Matarazzo’s Lorna ... the character being bathed in the blood of Heather Matarazzo” That struck me as all wrong. If you really cared about the character, her death should not have been magnificent but heart wrenching; she should be the ONE character you wanted to see make it out. And seeing her tormentor literally bath in her blood?! I can’t imagine feeling entertained by that indignity being done to a character I cared about, regardless of the historical reference. However, and I cite your quote “It’s wonderfully staged, bloodily erotic and sensual”, you seem to almost get turned on by it. I’m not trying to be flip or glib, but you did just describe a woman bathing in blood as erotic and sensual, no? And to cap it all... “My how we’ve become priggy” Sir, do you truly posit that it is “prude” to find a depiction of a woman bathing in the blood of someone who’s just been murdered as offensive/obscene/unnecessary? And if so, would you not acknowledge that view to be some sort of indicator of an enjoyment of grotesqueries, something beyond, say, the thrill an audience gets when the bad guy gets killed at the end of a movie? “Maybe it’s the soccer scene?” While you do quote a list of films that also include decapitation, I don’t believe any of them depict ON SCREEN (I include that only because of Silence of the Lambs) a decapitation done purely for enjoyment, and certainly none follow that up with the perpetrator using the severed head as a toy! And in the films that do have a decapitation, that is usually just an instance of violence, rather than, kinda, the point of the film. “the violence isn’t remarkably grotesque.” “acts of violence that are frankly… kinda common place in the history of film” “This isn’t like the SAW films ... which I feel is far worse than the violence here.” You named one film that released 36 years ago to include the blood bathing scene, which I don’t feel qualifies the “common place” sentiment. Dito for the head as sport equipment. As for the SAW films, I would argue that those films are the polar opposite of something like hostel (i.e. no one has to die), as the villain finds selfish/self-centered people and asks them to choose between their life and the earthly trappings they’ve put above it. They are a (perhaps ham-fisted) commentary on our society, where as Mr. Roth’s film don’t seem to have any message behind them at all; his movies feel more like that childhood friend we all had who was always fascinated by road-kill and the like, in the vein of “Hey, guys, look how GROSS this is.” “I don’t come to movies like HOSTEL: PART TWO for the gore.” Well maybe I’ve just been to judgmental in this now way longer than I intended diatribe. BUT.... “I agree that the 3 main characters in that film were not the type of guys I like” You didn’t go to Hostel 1 for the characters, so what did attract you to that type of movie? Like I said up top though, I’m predisposed to hating these kinds of movies, and maybe you really do find something in them to enjoy besides the graphic violence that’s on display, but I felt that your review of the film indicated otherwise. And it’s not that I’m even trying to condemn you if that is the case, I just wish then that you (and everyone else) would simply admit “The graphic kills in the movie were the reason I decided to go see it.” Personally, at a time when I could go see Disturbia, Knocked-Up, PotC 3, or Ocean’s 13 at the local theater, I have ample reason to avoid this one. I wish more people felt the same way.
Lour Reed luvs Frank Zappa by Thom85	Jun 7th, 2007 01:18:16 AM
Anti-Roth = Pro-Retarded. That's a great argument sir. It's also intelligent to assume anyone with an objection to graphic violence, or more truthfully, graphic sadomasochism is a sure teller that a person is a religious zealot. Surely they persecute the filmmaker under orders from Cardinal O'Brian, rather than for that filmmaker's disgusting creation. Persecuting someone for being gay, that is condemnable, persecuting a person given the opportunity to make a film that can touch millions of people for creating something with no redeeming qualities whatsoever, that laughs at the value of human life is quite another.
American gangster: Trailer!!!!! by Gluecifer	Jun 7th, 2007 01:32:53 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =VdMikIBdK04
Spazatronic 2000 by Thom85	Jun 7th, 2007 01:43:28 AM
Could you please explain the message that Eli Roth's "art" contains? Could you tell me what he's trying to "say"?
justin s by DocPazuzu	Jun 7th, 2007 02:17:30 AM
I laughed my ass off at that.
Readingwriter, To cross the line for me, it would.. by bongo123	Jun 7th, 2007 02:24:26 AM
..probably have to be some kid being tortured or a particulary violent and graphic rape scene. Now some kid getting a quick one in the head is ok or a girl getting raped for the sake of the story (as long as it aint to graphic) i.e. Hills have eyes 2, again is all a'ok in my book.. just dont show me too much as then i think even my strong stomach would be tested. As for everything in the Hostel's... walk in the park litterly, the scenes crack me up in a "holy fuck" sense of the word. All this hate is a bit over the top and smacks of westboro fanaticism for a guy whose giving us some pretty cool and original horror movies that push the envelope.
Spaz by RevSick	Jun 7th, 2007 02:28:13 AM
I don't think a single person is persecuting Roth in the least. They seem more to be calling out Harry on what seems a biased review. And a point to Harry, using you and Eli hanging out and watching movies in your living room isn't the greatest defense in such an argument.
Hey Poster turndacorner Your Link ........ Not Working by Red Dawn Don	Jun 7th, 2007 02:35:24 AM
I tried copying and pasteing it without sucess. I think this one will work: www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channo n_Christian **************************** ***This is some sick real Tennessee rape/murders. The college girl was forced to drink bathroom/kitchen cleaner to erase the semen DNA she had been forced to swallow by the rapists.
For Some Reason AICN ..................... Puts A Blank by Red Dawn Don	Jun 7th, 2007 02:43:16 AM
AICN puts blanks in the link to screw it up. So for you to copy and paste it, just remove the blank space after you copy and paste. But leave a space between Channon and Christian. Her name is Channon Christian. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C hannon_Christian
Why Is AICN Such A Bitch ..................... On Links by Red Dawn Don	Jun 7th, 2007 02:53:13 AM
Best way to read the story. Go to www.wikipedia.org then do a search there with the key words "Channon Christian" or "Chris Newsome". Take that you link hateing AICN website.
Just read the begining of this talkback.... by TheUltraHumanite	Jun 7th, 2007 03:54:38 AM
looks like i was a bit late lambasting harry here, oh well, at least you guys are with me, in his first response, harry actually says its "the best ENDING of the summer" just like in the trailer, That, well, that just makes me laugh.... hard.
messi by Chilli815	Jun 7th, 2007 06:04:48 AM
Your rant doesn't make any sense. You criticise mainstream music for being conventional and shitty, then complain when people dare to call it shit. That makes NO sense.
You've lost me, Harry..... by losbastardos	Jun 7th, 2007 06:54:01 AM
I'm a big-time regular fan of AICN, and the majority of it's writers...even you, Harry....for the most part. Imagine my dismay when the beginning of your review of Hostel Part2 includes the adjective 'fantastic' when referring to Hostel. Are you fucking kidding me? Fantastic?!? Hardly. The Descent? Fantastic. Pans' Labyrinth? Fantastic. I thought Hostel was 'passable' AT BEST and the only reason I am/was remotely interested in the sequel was because I was curious to see if Roth could improve with it. (which I'm sure he did based solely on the fact that he couldn't do much fucking worse) As soon as I saw you use the 'F word', all was lost. I had hoped to get an educated opinion on Part2, but based on the fact that you feel as you do about the first film, I no longer care what you think.
My reply by orliplayer	Jun 7th, 2007 06:57:13 AM
You wanna watch it, no one is stopping you. But excuse us if a lot of people find simulated torture as entertainment offends their sensibilities." So, everything that offends you should be banned. If women breastfeeding their child on the open offends somebody, that woman should be arrested. I understand now. "Looks like the line of common decency keeps getting pushed further and further. We've got have continuing discourse to make sure that line doesn't disappear completely, wherever it may be." It's called progress. And the line will never disappear. It's a tug-o-war.
About Harr's MySpace comment by orliplayer	Jun 7th, 2007 07:17:33 AM
Harry saqid: "And who are you? I'm well over 7,000 friends on Myspace... most of my friends have been friends for over 10 years. With my best friend being exactly that for 31 years." People, read the whole freaking paragraph. If Harry said that most of his MySpace Friends were close friends of his, I would be with you bashing Harry. What I understood by reading the WHOLE comment is that he enjoys writing for his friends and for himself. That means that his writing is only affected by the people close to him and by his own feelings. He didn't have to say he was friends with Eli and their taste in horror movies is almost the same, but he chose to because that friendship is affecting the review. He's just being true to himself. And if I remember correctly, reviews in AICN have always been like this. They tell you what they did before, during and after the movie, even if they were sick or just pissed of at something unrelated to the movie, adding it all up to the movie experience as well. Don't bash Harry just because one of his close friends made a movie that he liked. You would definitely do the same in his shoes.....or slippers.
Who made you all Judge Judy by Vishnu	Jun 7th, 2007 07:36:44 AM
Who made you all Judge Judy and executioner? If you don't like Roth, don't pay to see his films and shut up. Simple. End of argument. Harry is the founder of this site and whether you agree with his opinions or not, have some respect for the dude. If he never invented this site you'd be wanking in to your tube sock every night while trying to find a shot of Lindsay Lohan's snatch on the web, wishing you had somewhere cool to discuss movies with other like minded nerds. AICN has really enriched my movie experiences over the years and I have discovered so many hidden gems because of Harry and the boys, for that I'll always be grateful. I have always adored AICN for the talkbacks, it used to be so refreshing to hear other people’s theories and passion for film and to share our experiences. More and more they have just become a bore, filled with hate and insults and long gone is the passion and the interesting debate. What the fuck happened to you all? Are your lives really that sad and pathetic? You should all be fucking ashamed of yourselves for how you have turned something beautiful and fun into something so retarded and tedious. I abhor you all. Cornetto?
readingwriter by Darth Sicilian	Jun 7th, 2007 07:41:14 AM
That is a very important question in terms of the film industry. I posed the same question to the AICN writers in a previous post. If you ask “Why are people attracted too and have the desire to see a movie that contains graphic extended torture?” you’re labeled a fascist and religious zealot. Many TB’s believe that artistic freedom allows you to film anything..no limits… and questioning the social value/effect is censorship. I didn’t see Hostel I or II but I did try to sit through Ichi the Killer. I kept saying to myself “Who would find this movie entertaining? What’s the attraction?” Movie violence has its place (Dawn of the Dead and Hardboiled are two of my favorite films) but a film that is designed to center around torture…my gut tells me there’s something wrong with it. Is there ever a time when you can say “OK…that film just crossed the line based on basic human values and should be condemned by society” or can you never say that because or artistic freedom? I too would be interested people answers.
orliplayer by Darth Sicilian	Jun 7th, 2007 07:51:40 AM
I guess that is the main issue. Whay are young people flocking to see these films (Saw, Hostel, The Hills have Eyes...all have made a ton of money). Whay aren't they, the marketplace, shunning these types of films. What does that say about their mindset/values? Why has the "line" shifted so much?
Let me ask a question So it by Vishnu	Jun 7th, 2007 07:57:34 AM
Let me ask a question So it is ok to torture people at Guantanamo Bay for "freedom" but wrong to show it in a movie for entertainment purposes? Discuss
Vishnu by Chilli815	Jun 7th, 2007 08:07:05 AM
People would argue 'but they chose to simulate torture', which makes the whole thing sound worse because people were paid money to act as if they were being tortured. Which, urgh.
Box Office = $40 million by Garbageman33	Jun 7th, 2007 08:46:40 AM
Not a disaster, by any means. But certainly not a hit, either. I just don't see how anyone can watch that leaked scene and then go see this movie with a clean conscience. If I went, I'd feel a bit like Pee Wee Herman sneaking into a porn theater in Florida. And I think a lot of people feel the same way. Especially if this talkback is any indication.
Reviews so far are very good by dcut75	Jun 7th, 2007 09:17:13 AM
The critics are diggin it!
Yeah, 7 whole critics by Garbageman33	Jun 7th, 2007 09:22:25 AM
6 out of 7 critics at rottentomatoes.com gave it a positive review. And I'm sure 5 of them are people like Harry who are predisposed to liking it. Otherwise, they wouldn't have seen it yet. It's not like they sent it out early for critics like good movies do. By tomorrow, it'll be hovering around 50%. Mark my words.
40 million by dcut75	Jun 7th, 2007 09:27:46 AM
for a film with this budget would be a major success.
Anchorite are you that naïve? by Vishnu	Jun 7th, 2007 09:45:42 AM
I'm sure Gitmo makes Hostel look like Snow White! Without protection of the Geneva Conventions the prisoners really are open to any form of abuse and torture. 250 are being detained indefinitely and I don't think they watch Heroes all day! Perhaps we could organise a screening of Hostel 2 for them? Anyways my point was that the moral majority cry like little girls about films like Hostel and turn a blind eye to atrocities committed by their own government. Is that irony lost on you?? Oh and I'm not mad, just Irish!
I think vishnu's point by dcut75	Jun 7th, 2007 09:51:48 AM
Was "torture". You don't get graphic descriptions of it on the news, but the word does conjure some strong imagery.
But... by dcut75	Jun 7th, 2007 10:04:04 AM
quite a few had their fingers cut off in order to obtain a "confession"!
Still No link to the American Gangster trailer eh? by tehgreekhammer	Jun 7th, 2007 10:24:05 AM
I mean its not like Rusself Crowe and Denzel Washington in 1970's era NY directed by Ridley Scott warrants a article. Glad we have 6 Eli Roth Articles though.
Hmm? by snapcase	Jun 7th, 2007 10:31:47 AM
http://www.friendadder.com/new sflashes/11.html
Damn! Sounds like Roth did pretty good... by dcut75	Jun 7th, 2007 10:35:43 AM
"What makes “Hostel Part 2” one of the superior films of the genre (slasher films, by the way, are considered by some a sub-genre of horror pics) is that director Eli Roth does not line up one gory scene after another. He takes his time, letting us get to know the characters, each of whom has a distinct personality. In fact, truth to tell, the opening half of the film is so intriguing, so nicely photographed, so, well, European and collegiate, that audience members cannot be blamed if they are in no hurry to proceed to the gore. There’s nothing seedy about the locale of the destination. This is not the backwoods of Christopher Smith’s “Severance,” another gem of a slasher pic which takes place in a more remote area of Eastern Europe, nor are the killers as crazed. They’re as normal as you and I– on the outside. Here’s the point that writer Roth is bringing out. Almost all of us come across as decent people to our friends and working colleagues, but inside, a good many of us are bundles of repressed rage, itching to hurt others, just like the two principal villains in “Hostel 2,” whom we meet halfway into the movie."- Harvet S. Karten
As far as torture at Gitmo vs. HOSTEL... by TORTURE PWN	Jun 7th, 2007 10:41:05 AM
maybe Roth just amped the violence up a bit to get people to pay a little attention.He also flipped the tables by having it be the Americans being the ones getting tortured.Roth has many times stated that horror is a response to the times the films are made yet people are too stupid to realize or admit what HOSTEL is a response to even when it SHOULD be plain as day.Even if the films themselves were as bad as they claim.You can't blame your perception of Roth's ineptitude as a filmmaker for your missing the glaringly obvious.The "HOSTEL has no merit or subtext" itself hold no merit.But thats par for the course when dealing with right wing bullshitters.Admitting HOSTEL has meaning is tantamount to admitting the Bush administration are evil.
Get a space bar and stop talking out your ass by Garbageman33	Jun 7th, 2007 10:52:38 AM
So, you're saying that movies like Hostel will make us more sensitive to the atrocities being committed at Gitmo? Really?
Violence is fun... by Garbageman33	Jun 7th, 2007 10:55:48 AM
That's my takeaway from Hostel and movies like it. Hanging someone upside down and slowly slicing them up while bathing in the their blood is really awesome. Erotic, even. How exactly does that call attention to the atrocity of actual torture? By romanticizing it?
I have changed my mind by Sleeping Pilot	Jun 7th, 2007 11:02:42 AM
Vanilla is better than Chocolate Yeah!
Why is the castration scene being met with cheers? by MrTrilby	Jun 7th, 2007 11:07:14 AM
Violence against men is suddenly applaudable? Would a scene in which a woamn has her genitals gouged out be met with similar applause?
It probably won't make Garbageman more sensitive. by TORTURE PWN	Jun 7th, 2007 11:17:42 AM
But if a fictitious account makes someone with half a brain examine the concept and how it's being used by not just our enemies but our government as well then the movie has meaning.Those willing to keep their head in the sand or to stupid to think beyond whatever is spoonfed to them can keep spewing your "Eli Roth is bad, mmmmkay,"bullshit at the risk of wearing your ignorance/stupidity on your sleeve. And we haven't even STARTED on the capitalist angle...
Oh, so I'm the stupid one? by Garbageman33	Jun 7th, 2007 11:34:12 AM
Because I think that maybe, just maybe, glorifying torture isn't the best way to bring awareness to the problem? You got me on that one, genius. By the way, it's "too stupid" not "to stupid". Although I love seeing irony in action.
God dammit, Harry, can we get a response? by Thom85	Jun 7th, 2007 11:52:05 AM
What the fuck man? "I'll debate astute criticism"? Bullshit. The only thing you seem to respond to are the talkbackers who call your boy Roth a faggot, wherein you say you won't answer such a childish argument. What's the point of having the talkback section if the guy who wrote the article won't talk back in any intelligent way!? And if you don't write for the talkbackers, then what's the point of having this section?! Forget it. Like I, or anyone else with a brain will get an answer for our troubles.
If you think just by showing something as being by TORTURE PWN	Jun 7th, 2007 11:53:34 AM
as painful and terrifying as it must be,instead of treated cartoonishly or coyly is "glorifying" it,then yes,you are the stupid one.Just because something the movie offers up something you don't wish to see and/or can't comprehend doesn't make it a glorification.
Just to clarify... by Garbageman33	Jun 7th, 2007 12:05:28 PM
You're saying Hostel depicts torture realistically? That it's not a glorification? Am I understanding that right? So, if I went to Gitmo right now, I'd see a detainee hanging upside down and his interrogator would be lying in a bathtub with a sickle? Oh, and the interrogator would be a naked, hot chick? Yep, sounds pretty accurate to me.
Rebeck by FluffyUnbound	Jun 7th, 2007 12:27:34 PM
I have to disagree with you on The Thing. I can definitely remember hearing it criticized as being gore porn.
What a SHOCK! Harry Digs an Eli Roth Film! by Read and Shut Up	Jun 7th, 2007 12:44:31 PM
Hello, unbiased review? Table for NONE. Be serious, Harry - you shouldn't review anything made by Roth, Tarintino, Del Toro, Rodriquez, etc.
What a SHOCK! Harry Digs an Eli Roth Film! by Read and Shut Up	Jun 7th, 2007 12:44:32 PM
Hello, unbiased review? Table for NONE. Be serious, Harry - you shouldn't review anything made by Roth, Tarintino, Del Toro, Rodriquez, etc.
What a SHOCK! Harry Digs an Eli Roth Film! by Read and Shut Up	Jun 7th, 2007 12:44:40 PM
Hello, unbiased review? Table for NONE. Be serious, Harry - you shouldn't review anything made by Roth, Tarintino, Del Toro, Rodriquez, etc.
GAGH! Sorry About the Stupid Triple Post by Read and Shut Up	Jun 7th, 2007 12:45:50 PM
...but at least I got my point across.
For one last time.. by skimn	Jun 7th, 2007 12:58:32 PM
..we can debate the talents of Roth back and forth all we want. As I've stated before, I liked Cabin Fever. I thought Roth tightened the screws on his characters bit-by-bit very well, and I like how he turned the "protaganists fighting an outside evil" inside out. After watching Hostel, I thought, this is what all the hub-bub is about? A premise similar to From Dusk Til Dawn and Predator. Starts as one thing, becomes something else, and ultimately becomes a tale of survival. I saw it on video, so some of the shock and suprise may have been lessened. The ad campaign featured a pick of some sort that made me think it was about extreme dentistry perhaps. Hostel and to a lesser extent Saw brought about the term torture porn. People paying to see films and getting excited; enjoying scenes of helpless individuals having simulated physical pain inflicted on them. On to Hostel 2, once again Harry's quote concerning Heather Matrazzo's character death scene.."wonderfully staged, bloodily erotic, and sensual" or as Mirajeff states so poetically.."look forward to spending money to see Weinerdog get cut open like a Thanksgiving day turkey"..how lovely. And its the way Hostel 2 is MARKETED that targets that base appeal. The radio ad with the woman sobbing, chainsaws and flesh ripping effects. The teaser poster with the appropriate slab of meat. And the CryptKeeperish "You know the drill". Yes, we know the drill, and can't wait to see it enter some young, pink flesh.. Reread the quotes above, and tell me I'm wrong.
I'm Sorry, When Did Cannibal Holocaust Become GOOD? by www.valiens.com	Jun 7th, 2007 01:08:34 PM
First off - Garbageman33 - Color Me Badd - Hysterical. Secondly, and to the point, Cannibal Holocaust is a poorly executed great idea. That does not a good movie make. The acting was shitty. The script was shitty. The idea was great. Maybe I'm getting the definition of "torture porn" wrong. Is it that, like porn, everything is completely aweful trash except the thing that makes you hard? In the case of "torture porn" instead of getting hard you feel sick (hopefully). If THIS is the definition--making the viewer want to legitimately throw up/take a shower then Cannibal Holocaust does its job. If the definition involves anything else--say a workable script, maybe some decent editing, then Cannibal Holocaust is a failure. Eli Roth's films, by the way, do not fit into either definition. Huh. He must be making horror films after all. SHOCKING.
Dread-Central.com has posted their official review... by dcut75	Jun 7th, 2007 01:32:18 PM
4 1/2 out of 5.
Harry,can we have another HOSTEL talkback? by TORTURE PWN	Jun 7th, 2007 01:47:44 PM
This ones almost all used up.
That review was the shittiest thing I've ever read by BitterMan23	Jun 7th, 2007 02:12:57 PM
DC lost all credibility with me when they wrote that the Rob Zombie/Halloween panel at the fangoria con got everyone excited and relieved. fucking liars, it got everyone annoyed and made even people who were looking forward to the remake start to worry. even fangoria's own writeups weren't so full of blatant cocksuckery.
Hostel is not porn! by CrakPypeMcGee	Jun 7th, 2007 02:57:09 PM
If there was no plot then what was all of that dialogue in the movie about? Even Eraserhead had plot so don't go on about how Hostel didn't. I'm fucking excited about the new Hostel and I think that Eli's a terrific director. Hostel is very original and all the other horror films of last year were remakes or sequals. It was nice to see something new. Also Harry can like whatever the hell he wants. It's nice to see someone who actually likes movies. And to end this to not make me seem toooo angry; I can't wait to go see it. YAY HOSTEL: PART 2!!!!!
..... by Nuck81	Jun 7th, 2007 03:24:53 PM
Am I the only person not interested in this at all?
THIS JUST IN!!! by BillyPilgrim	Jun 7th, 2007 03:56:54 PM
Jesus Christ only has 6998 friends on MySpace. Harry is more popular than Jesus!
"Torture Porn" by Maniac Cop	Jun 7th, 2007 04:11:41 PM
The New Sadism http://markpalermo.blogspot.co m
No Hostel 2 review in the last 24 hours by rhcp2sweet	Jun 7th, 2007 04:33:37 PM
What has this website come to?
Hostel 3: TB is mental tortureporn... by spectrebeeyatch	Jun 7th, 2007 04:36:24 PM
I have been laughing reading these posts. How old are some of you guys 13? If you're older than like 15 and bitching about how unfair it is Hostel 2 gets articles here you need to jerk off in a towel or something you look pathetic. I saw the first Hostel in a screening and hated it, will I see the second one? No I won't. Does it mean I hate Roth? Nope not at all I look forward to Cell. I love Harry's site it gives me movie news a over a thousand of fucking idiots to laugh at. AICN has become like the home for losers who have no lives so they try and preach like they are better than everyone and know more than Harry. And the claims that no one cares about Hostel... Well maybe you idiots should stop fucking posting over twenty times so you make the TB the most popular. Just a thought. Also I heard Godzilla has 7001 Harry has been beat!!!
The problem with Eli Roth's films is... by -guyinthebackrow	Jun 7th, 2007 04:40:10 PM
... NOT the gore. The gore is fine. The problem with Eli Roth's films are that they are in no way scarey. And that, my friends, is a problem if you are making a horror movie.
Eli is butthurt about a bad review by BitterMan23	Jun 7th, 2007 05:39:37 PM
the reviewer was asked not to go to the press screening tonight. apparently, getting the entire AICN staff taking turns on his rod isn't enough for him.
This was a fun film. Harry is right by the scream	Jun 7th, 2007 08:49:07 PM
What the fuck is going on with all the moaning about Eli Roth??!! This film was a great night out IMHO. Harry has been spot on lately. But if he isn't negative about every bloody film out there, people just bitch and moan complaining he's sold out. FANS of the horror genre get this.
Just because a grey haired woman... by krushjudgement	Jun 7th, 2007 10:13:13 PM
...likes torture porn, doesn't really make it okay. I know some messed up old people. They are just messed up young people who survived this crazy place long enough to be grey. I hate movies like this, it's like scraping the bottom of a swamp to find the sky. Every once in a while you'll look up and see it, but you're still in a fuckin' swamp. I know, crappy metaphor, but you get the point.
-guyinthebackrow is 100% right by Schih Thayde	Jun 7th, 2007 11:59:07 PM
Now THE DESCENT, that's scary. I filled up my shorts with fearful shit, and also there was screaming. Hostel is just dull, like Saw and all the JapanoRemakes that keep coming out.
ok, well i just got back from seeing the actual movie.. by FrenchBastard03	Jun 8th, 2007 02:22:12 AM
..not that leaked unfinished crap.. and i have to say, though i enjoyed most of it, other parts were just damn frustrating. i really enjoyed cabin fever and really enjoyed hostel 1, i have absolutely no problem with eli roth, he never did anything against me, but i had this feeling by the movie's end that they were holding back for some reason. look, (spoilers ahead) whats really pissing me off is all this hoopla over the "KILLER ENDING" that the ads, harry, and eli himself cant stop talking about in every interview he does. all it amounts to is a different version of the vengeful "run over" scene in the first hostel. only this time instead of a cool and effective automobile running over some bitches, we have a lame ass beheading. really? is that all you could think of? hell the beheading in the original "omen" was more effective. get a little more creative man. another thing (more spoilers) that pissed me off was the off screen violence. we have this one kill thats supposed to be this characters defining moment, and its quite literally the most frustrating off screen kill ever to be put on screen. and then we have the infamous penis chopper. well yea that was pretty damn effective and the crowd i saw it with reacted accordingly, but it felt like the beginning of her revenge. but instead we cut away, assuming that the guy dies by having his dick cut off. i think it would have hurt like hell and he would've suffered, but im just not sure he could have died that way is all, i need some closure before you cut away and are getting ready for your oh so cliched beheading before the credits hit and all i can think about is "that's it?" i enjoyed most of the movie though, dont get me wrong, i liked the story and the arcs the characters take, but things just got shoddy at the end, just felt like 15 min of the movie was missing is all.
Thanks for the responses about "too far" by readingwriter	Jun 8th, 2007 04:07:34 AM
Good stuff, because I don't see many people discussing their personal ideas about what's too far, though I see a lot of what people think shouldn't be censored. (I'm one of those evil republicans who think EVERYTHING should be allowed in a fictional film. And prostitution should be legal, and...) Anyway, the political discussion is a distraction, so back to the point. I love horror movies that scare, but those that are merely opportunities to show the most grotesque violence, while not for me, DO interest me in terms of the audience. I mean, the justification for watching this stuff is pretty funny--Roth is somehow making a statement about Gitmo or Abu Grahib (sp) by showing young women bathed in blood? Again, I'n saying let all this stuff be out there--but don't be afraid to call a spade a spade. What would you call someone who is entertained by watching simulations of murder and torture? If the stuff Harry describes in his review is acceptable, what's wrong with what the other posters mentioned, like aborting a baby and tossing it into a vat of acid? I mean, it's fake, a similation, so we're not talking a moral crime, it's a simulation. But those who can't admit that there might be something a bit ODD about watching simulated torture and murder fun aren't being honest. I'm not talking about movies that use violence for excitement as part of a payoff in a story--I love car crashes and shootouts. But there is a level of unbelievability to those; how many times have we heard critics complain that we never see the fallout of the violence in action movies? The reason is the audience DOESN'T want to see real violence, or close simulations of such. They enjoy the mayhem, the destruction of expensive machines, the justice of the baddie getting it. But I don't think they enjoy the ACT that gets the justice. It's like the difference between enjoying a cake and enjoying seeing it made--they are two very different things. Similarly, I think seeing "Hollywood" violence is seeing the action/mayhem/release, the light show, the "playing cops and robbers" like we did as kids. I get that. I DON'T get sitting in a theater and enjoying women screaming as blood is poured over them, as they're being chopped up, as depressing music plays. I'm not judging on a moral level like those boobs who only want THEIR kind of violence shown (The Passion, for example)--but I just don't buy the "It's just a movie!" and "It's a social statement" stuff.
the horror of a naked Wiener Dog by palewook	Jun 8th, 2007 08:59:59 AM
Wiener Dog from "Welcome to the Dollhouse" gets naked in this. wtf. seriously.
I really didn't like this film by johnc1982	Jun 8th, 2007 09:11:00 AM
I'll start out by saying I was a big fan of the first film. That said I was really looking forward to Hostel 2. After seeing it all I can say is I was bitterly disappointed. I felt they tried to be far to cleaver, it was obvious from very early on what was going to happen. Now I don't want to give away any spoilers here so I'm not going to go into details. All I'll say is certain characters try to hard be who they are. Now this may seem like an odd criticism but without revealing spoilers it’s all I’m willing to say. Had this been the first film I may have thought different but after the first I felt this one just rehashed old ideas. Watch the film for yourself and see what you think, but me and a group of friends really didn't think it was up to much.
So, readingwriter... by TORTURE PWN	Jun 8th, 2007 09:16:10 AM
we're not correct in comparing HOSTEL to Abu Ghraib or Gitmo,but it's perfectly acceptable to compare it to tossing babies into vats of acid?You do realize you're not the 1st person in these talkbacks to use a ridiculous analogy using child murder/abuse (either real or simulated) to make a point about a FICTIONAL MOVIE that has NOTHING to do with child murder.Is the only way you guys think you can make a point by conjuring up images of child endangerment?Or do you guys just hate kids so much that thats the 1st thing you think of.It's just like a Republican to want to wait until a kid is already born to make it O.K. to kill it.
what was the name of the really inappropriate horro by emeraldboy	Jun 8th, 2007 09:19:44 AM
film that harry allowed his little nephew to see and caused shock among the talkbackers when he admitted he allowed his nephew to see this film. I think it was the original TCM. but I could be wrong. the reason I ask is that the cast for Ghost town was announced ahhh..Remember when fooled us all with his talk of becoming film producer and the first film was ghost town. Gervaise co-stars with Greg Kinnear and tea Leoni. This film is directed by David Keopp and is all about a misnthropic dentist(gervaise) who dies during a colonoscopy for seven minutes and awakes to find that he can see ghosts. he is then pestered by Kinnear also dead into breaking up the wedding of his wife(tea Leoni). When that didnt materialise Harry told us he was working on jon carter from Mars. He aint producing. That. though know that he is getting Married, the only thing harry will produce is little Harry. aw..... When the kid is ten, I dont know what his educators will think when little harry says "and when I was 5 daddy bwought me to Hostel thwee and there was this one scene where kid staple gun this woman to the floor and hacks off her b...." little Eli roth jumps in and says dad i spent hours rehearsing that scene."
Ha, ha! Them cursin' grandmas sure is funny! by Stalin vs Predator	Jun 8th, 2007 11:11:34 AM
Jesus, I can't believe what ridiculous nonarguments Roth's apologists pull out of the cliche corners and actually try to use them. "It's an artistic statement!". "Make your own film!". Every idiotic reasonless reason that's always used to defend garbage (And they're the same ones who laugh at Uwe Boll when he is using the very same "arguments".) I think the most pathetic and idiotic one was some dolt at CHUD who actually said wrote something like "I didn't object to the scene with the kid murder because I know it's a film and so the kid is just acting" - yep, the moron actually said something akin to that. The nonsense pulled in Roth's defense would have been hilarious if it wasn't so pathetic and sad. Could it be because... there's really nothing that can be seriously said in his defense?
Roth hate seems to be contagious by hammerman1	Jun 8th, 2007 11:22:19 AM
as for me, I'll take his movies one at a time. I havent decided I hate all of his movies for the next twenty years yet. When I think of the original Hostel I think of the story surrounding the violence rather than the violence itself. I didn't go in expecting to do that, but as a genre fan that is how I've come to remember the movie. After seeing it I really thougt the rest of the world would feel the same way. Instead it turns out it's cool to hate Eli Roth. Roth is a true fan of horror, but he is obviously also a fan of character. His love for the genre shines through in a bright and original way. Yes you see shades of TCM, Phibes, Theater of Blood, To Be Twenty, and to a much lesser extent Hammer films. But he does it in such a way that suggests he's learned from these films. He's not trying to show off that he's seen them all. But honestly when I'm watching the movie for the first time I'm not even really thinking about that, I'm just too caught up in the story. It's impossible to ask people to give up on claims of disposable characters, bad acting, weak story, and gore being the only draw. But please don't think you can ruin my enjoyment of this movie.
Roth Haters are just mad because theres no bad reviews. by Mike_D	Jun 8th, 2007 01:47:25 PM
have you ever though that MAYBE it might be a good movie?
It matters not that people stood to clap at this... by REMcycle	Jun 8th, 2007 02:05:52 PM
...at the drafthouse in Austin; a city completely bursting at the seams with Starfuckers. That said, I downloaded this instead of giving Eli another 8 bucks and watched it at home. While the Bathory scene was neat, the rest of it was so-so...and the "best ending of the summer" sucked. Totally contrived and 100% unbelievable. At the end of the day, Roth's DP deserves way more credit for the Hostel films than Roth does. Without his talented shooter, Roth's work would utterly fail.
No bad reviews? Seen RottenTomatoes ? by Volstaff	Jun 8th, 2007 02:06:40 PM
It has a 56% rating last time I looked. Not exactly a thunderous endorcement. And the user rating only gives it a 60%. That's the worst, assuming the users would be thew ones actually putting down money to see it. I liked the first Hostel on firt viewing because it was pretty horrifying to me. But the second go round ( on video) my response was pretty "meh". Once you get used to the gore, you find there's just nothing else there. Saying all that, I may go see it, but I'm definitely going the matinee route.
Harry, if you honestly found that "Bloodbath" sexy... by s0nicdeathmonkey	Jun 8th, 2007 02:14:19 PM
then I fear for the safety of your girlfriend.
elaboration by s0nicdeathmonkey	Jun 8th, 2007 02:18:00 PM
that scene gave my girlfriend a rape flashback.
s0nicdeathmonkey by Talkbacker with no name	Jun 8th, 2007 02:55:30 PM
WE haven't got girlfriends hahahahaha stop playing the fool.
Went to the premere of hostel 2 by BrightEyes	Jun 8th, 2007 03:25:09 PM
met eli, james gunn james wan and bunch of others, Hostel 2 is the best movie of the summer! go see it if you liked 1 or even cabin fever, It gives off cabin fever vibes alot during this film.
I predicted 50% on rottentomatoes... by Garbageman33	Jun 8th, 2007 04:22:34 PM
It's currently at 53% and sinking fast. Mainly because real critics are finally catching up (it wasn't screened in advance, the sure sign of a shit movie). I also predicted $40M in box office. In hindsight, that may be a bit high. Hopefully, this will be the death knell for glorified torture. I refuse to use the term "torture porn" only because I find it insulting to real porn, which I'm actually quite fond of.
Where are my posts? by spud mcspud	Jun 8th, 2007 05:39:11 PM
Come on big guy - I know I'm in your house and I'm dissing your mate Roth, but fuck - this is America dammit! Land of the free, home of the brave! As an Englishman, I plead the Fifth! The Constitution demands the right to free speech! WHERE ARE MY FUCKING POSTS?!?!?!?!? Seriously, Harry, I mean no harm - like most TBers on this TB. What's going on, man???
Midnight at the Alamo by gothfae	Jun 8th, 2007 05:54:42 PM
Being one of the many that sympathetically winced during the castration, this was a damn good movie. To hear Roth talk, the pre-show entertainment, the energy in the theatre. It's too bad so many TBer's sound like Bible thumpers that bitch about a movie they've never seen, they just bitch about different things. I thought it was a hell of a movie, with a hell of an audience. Too bad so many people won't even take the chance to see it before deciding it's tripe, or watching an unfinished pirated work copy and calling it shit. Oh well, you guys keep bitching I guess, and I'll keep dropping my money at the Drafthouse to see quality entertainment.
Shoot, and I thought I was being clever... by TheGuyInTheBackRowTalking	Jun 8th, 2007 07:43:53 PM
then I'm looking through the thread to see another TBer with more or less the same handle as mine. Sorry about that...oh, and if you want to see true horror, those "arm coming out of the stomach to force feed you a hot dog" commercials are truely the stuff of nightmares.
the most solid sequel? by thehowlingfatass	Jun 8th, 2007 07:50:08 PM
Dude. I hated Hostel Part II, but it's fine that you liked it. Hey, different strokes, you know. But the most solid sequel of the summer? You watched 28 Weeks Later, right? That is a horror film about characters. Not just random folks stranded in a situation. Granted, Heather Matarrazzo's character was nicely realized, but her death took whatever was left of the suspense for me. Anyway, I'd take Robert Carlyle's Don and the dilemma of his existence over anything in either of these movies. As a film guy, I can't imagine how you could prefer Hostel over that.
I like Eli Roth and even I was disappointed by BillEmic	Jun 8th, 2007 10:23:18 PM
I agree, any praise for Hostel 2 goes to Eli Roth's DP who made this movie look absolutely gorgeous. The "blood bath" scene is noteable just for how immaculately grimy they made that room look. However, I was really disappointed with how this film ended. I thought Eli basically promised that there would be no Hostel 3, so I was expecting SOME kind of closure, even if it was just a "This conspiracy reaches so far that no one could ever stop it," like the President (a fictional one, not GW) reclining at his desk and revealing a Bloodhound tattoo. Ridiculously cheesy? Yes, but so was the scene in which they managed to track down Jay Hernandez. ANYWAY, listen, I'm a guy, I have a package, and the castration scene didn't even make me wince because the penis just looked like a silly dildo prosthetic. So, if Eli thinks he can topple Pirates 3 and Shrek 3 just by cutting off some dude's wang...I guess he's just lucky that those flicks already cut off their own dicks at the box office.
Fuck Hostel! by Cherub of Justice	Jun 8th, 2007 10:36:01 PM
Im waiting for Eli Roth to do Thanksgiving, now that shit looked like it would be awesome!
I don't get the term "torture porn" by BillEmic	Jun 8th, 2007 10:47:47 PM
Are critics REALLY suggesting that people are sexually turned on/excited while watching Hostel in the theater? I mean, does some guy from the Village Voice really go down the aisles with a flashlight and check to see if any guys watching the movie have a bulge in their pants?
It's really not a bad movie by NapoleonDynamite	Jun 8th, 2007 11:03:01 PM
I thought it was better than the first one, had a little more heart and some scenes that approached generating real dread and tension. It's not "fantastic," but it's ok, As someone who though the first one was only so-so, who didn't care for CABIN FEVER at all and has no dog in the fight over Roth, I can tell anyone who's on the fence and wants a reliable opinion that HOSTEL 2 is a passable movie. It's not the greatest film ever but it doesn't suck. I did think the ending was a little forced, though. I don't know why they wouldn't just take her money and then kill her anyway. And harry, if you think watching a woman being hung upside down and having her throat slit is "erotic," well...maybe you should talk some things out with somebody.
Here's the review that got Harry so upset. by NapoleonDynamite	Jun 8th, 2007 11:19:21 PM
If anyone is curious, The critic that he doesn't want to name is David Poland. Here's the review right here. http://www.thehotbutton.com/to day/hot.button/2007_thb/070604 _mon.html
HOSTEL 2 = Teen Wolf Too by Johnny FilmMaker	Jun 8th, 2007 11:22:50 PM
i was quite dissapointed. i seriously felt like there should have been 25 extra minutes at the end. seriously. thats how they ended it? stupid. i dont know, maybe its me, but everyone leaving the theater seemed pretty dissapointed about it too. it felt like Teen Wolf 2 - someone else trying to basically remake the prevoius movie, with a few changes (teen wolf has basketball, lets do BOXING in part 2...Hostel had 3 guys, Hostel 2 has GIRLS)
ELI ROTH IS THE MAN!!!! by brucecampbell	Jun 8th, 2007 11:26:42 PM
A HORROR GOD!!!! HOSTEL 2 ROCKED
great film, who r u guys? by reganTM	Jun 8th, 2007 11:42:45 PM
Who are you guys? I just got back from seeing hostel part 2 and I loved it. As a longtime horror I probably see most films that come out whether I think they will be good or not. Many suck. Turistas, etc, etc. But I see them because I support the genre and I'm interested and I'm a horror movie nerd. Hostel 2 was well directed, better plot, better pacing, genuinely developed characters and story. Smartly restrainted at points and then over the top when he wants to be. The scene with the two amercian businessmen jogging and talking. brilliant. yay LaBute may have done something similar but never tying it so clearly both to the horror tradition and the very real horrors of the int'l sex trade, etc in the ways that Roth has accomplished. Was it a perfect film? No. Neither is the original DOTD. Neither is the original Halloween. There I said it. Not to compare Roth to those great b/c that's not where he's at in his career. But Hostel 2 is a fantastic step forward. I paid my $12.00 tonight and I want to see it again. thanks to AICN for all the great coverage. Now please return to the Eli bashing, I'm going to listen to the Cabin Fever commentary (wink).
Harry is fucking MESSED UP! by Thom85	Jun 9th, 2007 01:21:16 AM
When he says that someone takes a bath in someone else's blood, that sounds bad enough. Turns out it's actually quite worse in execution... Heather Matarazzo, who you might know from Welcome to the Dollhouse, The Princess Diaries or a number of other films, is hung upside down, naked, bound and gagged over a pool that slowly has candles lit around it as she screams through her gag throughout. Then a beautiful European woman comes in, disrobes, lays in the tub, and starts toying with the screaming Matarazzo with a long handled sickle. She starts to draw blood and also starts getting off on it. She eventually removes the gag so Matarazzo can beg more pathetically and then cuts her throat, bathing and luxuriating in the blood as it pores over here. That's fucking disgusting. That's sick. That is NOT ENTERTAINMENT! What the fuck is wrong with people who defend something like that? It's not art, it's not expression, it is SICK, and so are you if you watched that and didn't feel disgusted. Harry, I can't believe you would recommend a film like that, or a filmmaker.
DVader by Thom85	Jun 9th, 2007 01:38:05 AM
You know what would have been really tongue in cheek? To see the woman in the bloodbath cut off one of Lorna's butt cheeks and to see it fall in a bloody mass upon her body. How is that tongue in cheek? WHY would you want to see that?
My Idea For A Horror Movie by Thom85	Jun 9th, 2007 01:57:12 AM
"Two ordinary people..in a theater full of Hostel II fans. Surrounded by the kind of people that describe bathing in human blood as "erotic", they have 90 minutes to escape, before the movie ends, and the real horror begins.... Directed by Eli Roth. Starring a collage of male and female 20 somethings you've never seen, nor ever will again.
Loved... by radjac33	Jun 9th, 2007 08:11:57 AM
the review and history lesson. I support "R" rated horror flims and not PG-13 teases.
BillEmic - Torture Porn means: by spud mcspud	Jun 9th, 2007 08:44:02 AM
Dude, Harry just said he thought the bloodbath scene was a "magnificent death of Heather Matarazzo’s Lorna... It’s wonderfully staged, bloodily erotic and sensual in the best Hammer tradition." Bloodily erotic and sensual. Doesn't sound AT ALL like Harry connected sex with violent, torturous death there, does it? And in his own words, no less. Even Harry knows that this is a torture porn movie, because he himself made the connection between sex and torture. There you go. I cannot make this any plainer!!!
ReganTM by spud mcspud	Jun 9th, 2007 08:47:18 AM
There are problems with the original HALLOWE'EN? WHERE, for fuck's sake? That movie is one of the true all-time greats. What about it wasn't great? I have GOT to hear this.
Thom85 - you can't win by spud mcspud	Jun 9th, 2007 08:51:39 AM
But there are alternatives to fighting. Seriously, these fucked-up sickos actually WANT you to be offended. that makes them grin more, shout "Hell yeah!" more and grow little tentpoles in their pants. Becuase people who enjoy this shit are basically 13 years old in their heads, and just really really want to know what a human body torn to pieces looks like. The rest of us grew up and got over it. Horror can be great, but not when your goal is to make it as indistinguishable from a true snuff movie as possible. Sick fucks. DVader - What? Do you even understand what "tongue in cheek" means?
Falling buttcheeks by BillEmic	Jun 9th, 2007 10:40:24 AM
I still can't believe that people get worked over into a moral furor over this film. These movies are made for so cheap and appeal only to gorehounds/horror buffs, but Lionsgate knows how to market the hell out of them and rile up every bleeding-heart liberal out there. Say what you want about Hostel but it's not going to corrode America or warp people's minds...the Bush administration has already got that covered. Seriously, I think you guys give Eli Roth more credit than he deserves.
Halloween is one of the great scariest movie of all by emeraldboy	Jun 9th, 2007 10:41:13 AM
time and I love it. For me John Carpenter is the master mordern horror filmaker is his generation. great music, great tension, great editing. The thing re-make is a work of genius and scared me more than alien ever did. I was scared even more by chuck russell's remake of the blob. I literally couldnt sleep after seeing that. the original TCM was banned in Ireland for 30 years. But that scene where we see leather face for the first time is momentous and demolishes you everytime you see it. Short, sharp and shocking! or the scene where marilyn chambers escapes in the dark and is persused by Gunther Hanson. wow. The rest of the movie is depraved and you have to be made of strong stuff to watch someone hung on a meat skewer.
The problem with these movies is there is by emeraldboy	Jun 9th, 2007 10:52:11 AM
no story. At least Cabin fever had a story. Nubile teens in log a cabin get all infected and die. Hostel is about what exactly...bunch of people book into a czeck hostel and get tortured. Hmm, not much of a story there really.
I don't watch these kinds of movies, but I read a by superninja	Jun 9th, 2007 11:09:43 AM
review of this film, and I'm not really sure how people justify this kind of stuff. It's obvious they're creating sick pleasure based on the discomfort of torturing people - they're fake snuff films. Then they try to make you feel "bad" for enjoying what is happenning to the victims or flip horror convention - so what? It's sick.
RevSick, if you read the reviews, he did make one by superninja	Jun 9th, 2007 11:17:06 AM
of the women a torturer. Because supposedly he wants the flip the convention and yet it sounds like one of the most disgusting parts of the film to me.
I wont be seeing this... by emeraldboy	Jun 9th, 2007 11:42:26 AM
movie
"Why I Like My Friend" by Harry Knowles by Kasch	Jun 9th, 2007 12:25:59 PM
I love Harry, I love Eli, and I love Hostel II, but reviewing your friend's movie is a joke. If your good buddies with the director (especially one who talks to you about their work from its conception), your opinion is already compromised and nothing you write will feel like anything other than fellatio.
Please learn to by emeraldboy	Jun 9th, 2007 02:01:59 PM
stop giving your friends great reviews. it just sounds like your not impartial.
You could kinda tell it was gonna bomb... by BillEmic	Jun 9th, 2007 02:28:54 PM
...considering that it just came out yesterday yet, for all the bile thrown Eli's way in the past few weeks, this Talkback is basically dead.
Oh dear... by Tripman5000	Jun 9th, 2007 02:49:43 PM
The horror sequel Hostel Part II bowed to an estimated $3.4M on Friday, or less than half of the $7.6M first-day tally of its predecessor from January of last year. A weekend debut of about $9M seems likely.
You know that Radiohead song Fake Plastic Trees? by BillEmic	Jun 9th, 2007 02:52:53 PM
There should be a remix for the credits of Hostel 2 called Fake Plastic Penis.
Hostel II, six place on friday's returns. by AllPowerfulWizardOfOz	Jun 9th, 2007 04:28:01 PM
Ain't looking too good for Eli there.
Finally! by BrightEyes	Jun 9th, 2007 04:44:27 PM
A Great Summer movie
Loved it. by WALKNDED	Jun 9th, 2007 05:07:42 PM
Guess the some of you Crybabies. Have no taste.
Don't get your hopes up for the ending by Vern	Jun 9th, 2007 05:32:46 PM
As a horror fan I thought this movie was worth seeing, mostly better than the first one. But if you hope to enjoy it PLEASE don't go in all excited about this "shocking ending." There is not a shocking ending. That advertising is gonna kill the movie if you take it seriously. I also don't agree with Harry that it has the "best" ending. "One of the top five most mildly amusing endings of this week's releases," definitely. But at least one other movie that came out the same day has a much more satisfying and surprising ending. HOSTEL PART II has no surprise, no conclusion really, just a sort of funny bodily mutilation already given away in Harry's review. In my opinion the first 2/3 or so are better than the equivalent in HOSTEL, but the last third is a little weaker. Still, percentage-wise that is an improvement and I am all for improvement.
"I'm well over 7,000 friends on Myspace..." by Negative Man	Jun 9th, 2007 05:56:38 PM
Completely no offense, Harry... But that is one of the funniest things I've read in a while. Please, please, please never say that to anyone again. Unless you're to bed a thirteen year old gil. In which case I hope she goes all Hard Candy on you. Sheesh... "...7,000 friends on Myspace..." That line will keep me laughing for a while.
"Guess the some of you Crybabies. Have no taste." by Garbageman33	Jun 9th, 2007 06:03:03 PM
That may be the new version of, "All your base are belong to us". Congratulations, Eli, this is your fanbase. People who can't form a cohesive thought. And Harry.
Saw it today. by Hint of Smegma	Jun 9th, 2007 07:13:44 PM
Boy do I want that time of my life back. Not one to just slag off a film because it's a trend, I like to make my own mind up but to be honest I had no intention of watching this - Cabin Fever was over rated tripe to say the least, Hostel was even worse in my opinion, but a friend wanted to see it so in I went. A poor film as far as I'm concerned, the only thing it has going for it is the main kill scene and without a doubt that had to be one of the most pointlessly distasteful scenes I've ever, well, seen. Harry's review of this movie is just a sign of how far this website has fallen over the years, and the fact he finds the main kill remotely erotic speaks volumes to the state of his mental health. To then pretend it's art and thus justifiable is a weak argument - I'm not someone who believes in censorship generally, nor do I in regards to this movie, but lets at least be honest about the subject. A bad film - heck, a bad franchise now - by a bad director that exists only to be distasteful for the sake of it, as there sure as hell wasn't any story behind it. The phrase 'torture porn' is annoying to me and bandied about too much but in this case it's certainly apt. It will certainly take some kind of turn around to get me to watch another Roth film after this, as far as I'm concerned he's on the same level as Boll, he just is trying to be more distasteful. He's definately not any better a director, let's put it that way. Harry's reviews, if they can be called that these days, are just a waste of time. Movie sites like DH and Chud amongst many others are killing this site in terms of respectability. Harry, glad you've got friends in Hollywood, you seem to like that. But for the sake of your website's future, stop the reviews where it is your famous friends, they're so biased it's sickening. The only thing worse is the constant dropping of product placement or shop endorsements.
Yeah...just saw it. by Red Ned Lynch	Jun 9th, 2007 08:17:23 PM
Okay. I didn't like Cabin Fever, but at the end of it I said that I wanted to see this guy's next movie. The problem is, I still do. Roth just hasn't matured at all in the ways that are important in order for him to become a serious director. And I'm not saying this with any glee, because we need good new horror directors. The guys who dominated this field the last twenty years or so have grown awful long in the teeth and mostly lost their edge. But in terms of giving his movies any sort of theme (rich people get away with the kwaziest things...unless they do them to richer people) really doesn't count, crafting interesting characters, setting up his shock scenes so they have any kind of subtext or deeper emotional resonance, he just hasn't moved. He still does a good gore scene, and they can even be uncomfortable, in the same way it's uncomfortable to watch some clip on YouTube where a guy ended up getting pulled over a hundred yards of concrete on his motorcycle. He can also pull out a clever, shaggy dog bit every now and then. He did in Cabin Fever, and he does here. Three movies in it's just not enough. Roth needs to step up, either go outside the genre or try to craft a real horror movie. 'Cause this well has just about run dry.
But hey, Hint_of by Red Ned Lynch	Jun 9th, 2007 08:30:43 PM
..I like Chud just fine, but they pimp their buddies, too. And you know, I don't blame either place for doing it, but I do wish Harry would just recuse himself on these movies, because he does lose control of himself. And I feel for him, because assuming Roth really is his buddy...trust me, it really is hard to dog your buddy's work, at least where anyone else can hear or see.
Torture PWN by readingwriter	Jun 9th, 2007 08:34:57 PM
"we're not correct in comparing HOSTEL to Abu Ghraib or Gitmo,but it's perfectly acceptable to compare it to tossing babies into vats of acid?" Uhhh...someone else made that comparison, and I was responding to what he posted. Really, you politically-correct little weebles need to pay attention to something besides movies in which women's breasts are sliced off. And please, DO let that retarded "It's only a movie!" thing die--yes, we all know "it's only a movie" but we're here to talk about MOVIES, ok? And you know nothing about my opinions on abortion, so that silly and cliched comment is just as useless and uninformed as the rest of your dumbass post. If you get off watching simulated torture, fine, but aren't you the least bit curious as to WHY that gets you going?
Intense Horror vs. Torture Porn by readingwriter	Jun 9th, 2007 08:44:34 PM
In the first, you don't want the characters to get killed, but at the same time your involvment with their on-screen actions builds up that suspense and leads to a release that brings the tension and fear to another level; when the movie is over, your return to the real world is a relief--we made it, yeah! Examples: Halloween, Texas Chainsaw, Psycho. In the second, you laugh at characters who aren't you and look forward to their bloody ends; in this case, if you DIDN'T see bloody deaths (unlike in H and TCM, which use shadow and misdirection to SUGGEST a death you'd like to avoid) you would feel you didn't get your money's worth. In the first, you're paying for the emotional rollercoaster, as the cliche goes, and it only works if you LIKE the characters; in the second, you're paying to see murders happen, the blood and gore spill, and to vicariously experience what it would be like to see the people you despise in real life killed through on-screen stand-ins (bullies, beautiful women who won't have sex with you, the rich, the jocks ,etc.).
Red Ned...... by Hint of Smegma	Jun 9th, 2007 08:56:58 PM
....Chud do indeed 'pimp' things being done by their own staff, but that's the difference. I can understand Devin or whoever promoting a movie made by himself or his staff - it's not exactly ethical as they obviously are biased, but they certainly don't do it to the extent that the big H does. Nowhere near in fact, plus they are filmakers starting out, promoting themselves. With Harry, he's pimping himself for established filmakers who previously had no connection to the site until they wanted to use him to exploit whatever 'power' this site still has to promote movies, so they buddy up with him, groom him, gift him, elevate him to the status of Hollwood whore - and he loves it. Never have I seen at Chud or DH an article by anyone describing a day of shopping prior to seeing a movie, and capitalising store names, product names etc. Nor have I seen at either site anyone promoting a movie that they didn't have direct involvment in. If they have, forgive me, I'm pretty near omnipotent but still developing my mastery of the entire universe - therefore don't know every word ever written at either site. But I haven't seen it. I have however read Harry's reviews recently and felt sickened by his complete lack of integrity. Also, I find it interesting that this is my third 'incarnation' on the talkback boards - and whenever I've been critical of Harry for the same things, without swearing, being an ass etc, I find myself suddenly banned. So he's all for freedom of expression in allowing hack directors to film completely unnessecary and unpleasant scenes in the name of 'art', but he does have a problem with the freedom of expression of those who have a different view or who criticise his blatant schilling for big companies. Funny that. Not hypocritical at all, eh?
Hint.. by Red Ned Lynch	Jun 9th, 2007 09:08:30 PM
...sorry if you got banned. I don't know, I've bashed pretty much everybody around here at one time or another...maybe not Mori or Vern...but certainly Harry and Herc. But I guess I've praised them at other times so maybe it evened out. I was just thinking about Slither when I read your post and how sick I got of reading every little thing about that movie over on Chud. And it was an okay movie, a nice nod to the movies of the 80s, but damn. On the other hand I don't mind and can understand a certain amount of this, and you have to grant that Harry sure doesn't try to hide his love of these guys. Like I said, I wish he'd recuse himself from reviewing their movies, but if he wants to write columns about hanging out with them or whatever, I don't mind. Doesn't change what I think about the movie though, and I think most folks who come here know when they have to discount a review. Still, sorry for your troubles.
Ned... by Hint of Smegma	Jun 9th, 2007 09:24:32 PM
....your comment about 'Slither' rang a chord with me - I remember that too, but again they were positively reviewing a film they had no personal connection to. Liking a movie and positively reviewing it, trying to promote it's success to their readers is one thing - I have no problem with that or with Harry promoting a film I personally don't like. What I do think is out of order is when he's doing it because of personal connections to the movie, and even more so when they are such bum kissing, fawning rambles when they are made by people who he now considers friends - people I might point out who would have nothing to do with him if he wasn't in a position to advertise their work in a forum that has been proved to have an effect on movie buzz. Beyond that the schilling for TARGET etc, the sudden throwing of support behind HD-DVD (the soon to be Betamax of the HD format) just leaves a bad taste in the mouth. I used to like reading Harry's reviews, they were always rambling but at least he was rambling about things he liked/disliked. Now he just seems to ramble about things he's being paid for in one form or another.
Wait, someone please answer this... by BillEmic	Jun 9th, 2007 09:40:11 PM
...in which thread/post did Harry brag about the number of his MySpace friends?
Nevermind by BillEmic	Jun 9th, 2007 09:41:31 PM
I found it. And had a good laugh. Gotta love that $#%&...
That's it,readingwriter... by TORTURE PWN	Jun 9th, 2007 10:02:37 PM
Go for the old "you get off on..." masturbation analogy.Gee,if a guy watches DIE HARD does that mean Bruce Willis or cartoonish violence "gets them off"?Or does watching RAIN MAN mean a person "gets off" on autism?Please.That "You get off on..." bullshit is inaccurate,stupid & played...so played.Unless picturing other people getting off is what gets YOU off? And your calling me a "politically correct weeble" is as ridiculous as my assumption of your views of abortion(even though you didn't say I was wrong in that assessment),so I guess were at a detente on that one.
It's "we're", Torture. by Hint of Smegma	Jun 9th, 2007 10:12:40 PM
When you want to intimate someone else is a moron, it's best not to display you're own lapses of intelligence. Plus, you have the answer in you're own post.....cartoon violence is simply that. Drama is simply drama. Torture and human misery for entertainment is a bit different.
Hint, it's "your".... by Hint of Smegma	Jun 9th, 2007 10:14:17 PM
...not you're. Did it yourself.
played...so played by readingwriter	Jun 9th, 2007 10:14:25 PM
You must be over 40 and white. Now, rap on the ceiling and ask your mom when dinner's ready.
Yup, I did. by Hint of Smegma	Jun 9th, 2007 10:15:08 PM
Thus proving my own point. Aren't I great?
You certainly are great, Hint. by Hint of Smegma	Jun 9th, 2007 10:15:50 PM
Handsome too, but that goes without saying.
Torture PWN by readingwriter	Jun 9th, 2007 10:22:53 PM
As for your "points"--'Go for the old "you get off on..." masturbation analogy.' Why are you so offended by this? Film fans get off on scifi, action, comedy. You reveal your defensiveness by taking this so literally. 'Gee,if a guy watches DIE HARD does that mean Bruce Willis or cartoonish violence "gets them off"?Or does watching RAIN MAN mean a person "gets off" on autism?Please.That "You get off on..." bullshit is inaccurate,stupid & played...so played.Unless picturing other people getting off is what gets YOU off?' It's funny how you won't address the points I made and go for the childish "Played, so played" rhetorical silliness and never once actually discuss the issue at hand. Whoops, now you'll think that's a comment about masturbation, something that seems to be on your mind a lot. 'And your calling me a "politically correct weeble" is as ridiculous as my assumption of your views of abortion(even though you didn't say I was wrong in that assessment),so I guess were at a detente on that one.' So my calling you something is as ridiculous as my views which I never expressed, and which may very well be the same as your own? You are a silly, silly person.
You're both silly. by Hint of Smegma	Jun 9th, 2007 10:26:10 PM
Now fellate each other and make up.
This is the kind of film a decadent culture makes. by superninja	Jun 9th, 2007 11:02:37 PM
People who are desperate to feel something and will stoop to any low to get it.
No, this is the kind of film a bad director makes. by Hint of Smegma	Jun 9th, 2007 11:10:58 PM
Don't blame my decadent culture for Roth's work.
Well Said Readingwriter by gad	Jun 10th, 2007 12:05:24 AM
I see you getting flak from some of the TP apologists but you know, by expressing your opinion and by the opinions of the vast number of critics there are a lot of younger kids who aren't going to get to see this movie, their parents have been warned and you can see the reflection in the low totals for the Roth movie. I've read that Roth doesn't like the term 'Torture Porn' and I can only assume that's because it's an accurate reflection of what he creates, the more accurately it's identified the less chance it has of weaseling into the mainstream.
HOSTEL 2 was fucking AWFUL by Bass Bastardson	Jun 10th, 2007 12:24:56 AM
Unlike a lot of people in these TBs, I liked the first one. Now that I've seen part 2 I have to wonder how wrong I was about Part 1. Hostel 2 was simply a BAD MOVIE on every level. Aside from the fact that it was boring, horribly written, poorly acted, terribly paced and generally amateurish, it was also sick and ugly on a every level. I feel like a bad human being for having gone to see it.
Nope, the market for this crap exists. by superninja	Jun 10th, 2007 12:31:35 AM
With or without the director.
Bite me Garbageman33 by WALKNDED	Jun 10th, 2007 12:46:01 AM
First time posting ..and I made a mistake. Still Hostel 2 is a better film than almost every film so far this summer..except 28 weeks later. all the other 2's & 3's so far suck BALLS.
Can we agree that Eli Roth is in the Uwe Boll league? by AllPowerfulWizardOfOz	Jun 10th, 2007 12:50:20 AM
I mean really I hate to say I told you so to those who went to see this garbage anyway but, I told you so. It's one area where I disagree with Harry and this site. Eli Roth is a terrible film maker. He's done one thing I enjoyed and that was the Thanksgiving trailer. That's it. Cabin Fever was terrible. Hostel was even worse. I gave that guy two chances and both movies sucked. I swore I would not waste my time again on Hostel 2 and it seems like I made the right choice based on some of you who chumped out your $8-13 to see this shitfest. I really hope this is the nail in the coffin for his films but someone will pay him to make another so that's only wishful thinking.
Total BOMB by tristeele	Jun 10th, 2007 01:13:01 AM
3,300,000 for Friday estimates. Thankgod its a total bomb.
FILM CRITISM GONE WRONG by manic_rage	Jun 10th, 2007 01:19:18 AM
WHAT HAS HAPPENED HERE? FIRSTLY, I HAVE NOT SEEN HOSTEL. AND I HAVE NO INTENTION ON SEENG HOSTEL 2. THE REASON? HORROR IS JUST NOT MY THING. WHY? BECAUSE WE HAVE BECOME JADED. I COULD SIT AND WATCH AN OPEN-HEART SURGERY WITHOUT ONCE BATTING AN EYELID. HORROR MOVIES HAVE JUST BECOME THE SAME TO ME AS THIS. WHAT I DO WATCH IS FILMS FOR FILMS SAKE. I WATCH A FILM AND JUDGE IT AFTERWARDS. THIS MEANS THAT SOME OF MY FILM LIBRARY WITH DIFFER VASTLY TO YOUR FILM LIBRARY. WHAT SURPRISES ME IS THE AMOUNT OF BILE AND VITRIOL TALKBACKERS HAVE ABOUT THIS FILM AND ELI ROTH. IT DOES SEEM AS THOUGH TIME HAS BEEN SPENT/WASTED ON SPURIOUS CRTIQUE WHEN IT IS JUST A FILM, NOT THE MEANING OF LIFE! TAKE FOR EXAMPLE, ZODIAC HAS BEEN RELEASED HERE RECENTLY IN THE UK. I KNOW I WANT TO SEE IT, BUT I WILL SEE IT EITHER IN THE CINEMA, ON DVD, ON LOAN OR OTHERWISE. I LOVE FILMS, BUT I KNOW THAT IT WILL NOT KILL ME NOT TO BE FIRST IN THE QUEUE TO SEE A PARTICULAR MOVIE. WHEN A PERSON CRITISES A FILM, IT IS JUST, WITH THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF CANDOR, INTEREST AND REALISM. WHEN A POST BECOMES PERSONAL, THEN IT COMPLETELY BELITTLES THE POINT OF POSTING IN THE FIRST PLACE. SO WHAT IF ELI ROTH HAS HAD FIVE OR MORE ARTICLES, DON'T READ THEM! ALSO HOW CAN SOMEBODY BE A 'TERRIBLE FILMMAKER' WHEN THEY ARE JUST THAT: A FILMMAKER, A JOB I'M SURE YOU WANT. NOBODY IS TERRIBLE, IT IS JUST YOUR VIEWPOINT. WAS ED WOOD TERRIBLE? SOMEWHOW HIS FILMS ARE NOW CULT CLASSICS... FILMS ARE USUALLY VERY INDICATIVE OF THE TIME THEY WERE MADE. IT THIS CURRENT CLIMATE, HORROR HAS TO SHOCK AND JUMP, BECAUSE GORE JUST DOESN'T DO IT. SCI-FI HAS TO BE SUPERIOR - IS 'TRON' PAST IT? NO. IT WAS A FILM MADE INDICATIVE OF THE TIME AND AVAILABLILITY OF RESOURCES. COMEDY HAS TO BE REALLY FUNNY...THE LIST GOES ON. IF A FILM OR THIS FILM IS BAD; FINE. BUT I'M NOT GOING TO STRESS OVER IT. VITRIOL ON FORUMS IS EXACTLY THE REASON WHY I RESISTED POSTING: PEOPLE SAT AT A COMPUTER FIRING MISSIVES AND ILL ADVISED OPINIONS SAFE IN OBSCURITY AND ANOMITY WHILST HAVING TO WASTE TIME EXPLAINING THE VERY FACT THEY HATE SOMETHING. AND THEN, GET THIS, OTHER PEOPLE HAVE TO THEN WASTE TIME HAVING TO JUSTIFY WHY THEY LIKE/DISLIKE...WHATEVER. IT GETS BORING. AFTER THIS, I EXPECT SOME OPINIONS AND BACKLASH, GO ON TRY ME, ACROSS THE VOID OF THE CYBERWORLD.
Maybe not a total bomb by tristeele	Jun 10th, 2007 01:19:26 AM
the budget was only 10mil.
use caps much? by tristeele	Jun 10th, 2007 01:33:14 AM
what a fucking asshole haha
TYPICAL by manic_rage	Jun 10th, 2007 01:40:18 AM
IT'S GENUINELY FUNNY. I USE CAPITAL LETTERS AND I AM AN ASSHOLE. Sorry. How's this? GENIUS. TRISTEELE IS A GENIUS.
Hint...oh and Manic Rage? by Red Ned Lynch	Jun 10th, 2007 01:52:17 AM
...Now I want to ban you. I was once the proud owner of over five hundred movies on beta. Still a painful memory. By the way, Manic? All that arguing about the movie? That's what the talkback is for. Movie site. Argue about the movie. Express your opinion. Really, it's okay. Oh, and Hint again? Hope you don't get banned soon. I'll look for your name in the talkbacks.
Hostle II was the biggest effing piece of crap ever by RokurGepta	Jun 10th, 2007 02:36:03 AM
god damn what a shear utter piece of tripe. A horror movie for blind pre-schoolers. Made the first film look like sex, with a hooker, and this sequel like a hand job from an unexperienced high school cheerleader. How can you make a sequel, and have it be less gorry? GOD DAMN IT, I'M PISSED. How many effing separate talkbacks did you have for this hack film? I SCREAM SELLOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SELLOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GOD DAMN IT, WEAK EFFING SAUCE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! WEAK
Hostel Part two by BrightEyes	Jun 10th, 2007 03:19:07 AM
can make 4 million this weekend and it wont bomb. sorry guys anyway you spin it, the film is gonna make a big profit.
Eli Roth has chosen Betamax and here's why by RokurGepta	Jun 10th, 2007 03:44:47 AM
because Hostel: Part II totally effing sucks.
Damn, manic_rage, take your meds. by Bronx Cheer	Jun 10th, 2007 08:02:17 AM
I might even agree with what you wrote if I could stand reading anything written in CAPS. My former boss writes emails in CAPS and it hurts him. Don't let yourself get hurt. The SHIFT key can be a good friend if only you would open up to it and try it. Don't be afraid. If you were going off on a rant about KRRISH or the SILVER SURFER AND COSMPIC POWERS then that would be cool. Otherwise, stop screaming, please!? Thank you. Now, I really have to go do laundry.
Yes, it only cost $10M to produce by Garbageman33	Jun 10th, 2007 08:13:27 AM
But they also spent a fortune promoting it. Between banner ads, radio spots and endless TV ads, I'm sure they spent another $10M, at least. Not to mention paying for Harry's movie snacks. That's another $400,000 right there. Any way you slice it, this movie is going to flop. Especially when it takes a nosedive after the first week.
Worst. Comeback. Ever. by Bobo_Vision	Jun 10th, 2007 10:36:06 AM
That "7,000 myspace friends" thing was funny, in a sad and depressing way. That has to be the new TB catchphrase for any and all arguments. And BronxCheer, I noticed Harry vanished once again when you mentioned that other TB where no blackboxers commented despite pleas from TB'ers.
CAPS LOCK by manic_rage	Jun 10th, 2007 11:07:16 AM
So I might get banned for using CAPS LOCK. What a joke. My resistance for posting is based on the fact that these forums (supposedly written by Geeks) are full of the kind of hypocracy I avoid. Just because I've written in CAPS LOCK means I'm souting? Hypocritical rules of cyberspace and people who can't be bothered to read it. I wrote my post without trying to curse and remain as normal as possible but now I have to justify myself to bigoted ignoramuses. I was in fact somewhat trying to defend Harry as well because the posts became personal, but you know what? I don't care anymore. It was meant to be about Hostel and it comes down to this. I don't care.
Waste of Time!!!! by Hail	Jun 10th, 2007 11:58:14 AM
Exactly like the first film, neerly beat for beat. Sure the gore is uped, but not as much as people make it up to be. Besided, gore without proper set-up makes for just cheap thrills. As soon as this movie was announced and the plot was three girls go the hostel I was worried that it'd be more of the same...and it was save for one twist twards the end that while good, felt mundane in an otherwise heartless sequal. Don't waste you time or your money, b/c that's exactly the only thing on Eli's mind with this crapper!!!
Good Points vs. All Caps by Dave3	Jun 10th, 2007 12:16:21 PM
Manic Rage happens to have made some very good points in his first comment. The fact that he used all caps should be held against him. To the one guy whose head hurts because his boss chooses to use all caps, um, grow up. Seriously.
Manic Rage by tristeele	Jun 10th, 2007 12:52:31 PM
No one cares wtf you think. No one cares what I think. This site is only here for us to argue about movies and call each other names. Also stop sticking up for the fat guy. Harry sold out. The man used to be a cool geek. He now pimps HD over Bluray because obviously someone paid him. He's friends with the torture porn director and we have to put up with it until he realizes the movie completely bombed and isn't going to help his career. He says he doesn't condone piracy but WAS in the room when they showed him STAR WARS Attack of the Clones. Everyone remember that fiasco? Harry says he has 7000 myspace friends- thats just fucking pathetic. Ive got 50 and I can tell you their birthdays cause I actually KNOW THEM. Back to your rant. It was clear, precise, well thought and to the point. Unfortunately NOONE gives a shit because your a pompous blowhard who had to use his caps lock and big words to prove a point. Dude its a MOVIE TALKBACK about TORTURE PORN. Who the fuck are you kidding?
Uh, Dave3, I was being a tad facetious. by Bronx Cheer	Jun 10th, 2007 01:00:57 PM
Yes, the CAPS thing is annoying, and I was poking a little fun. But you need to read a little more carefully...I wrote that CAPS hurts the writer, not the reader. By the way, the socks are clean. I thought you might want to know.
It's pretty much a bomb by exie	Jun 10th, 2007 01:03:27 PM
Any way you stack it, this movie did not perform to the expectations of everyone in the business. Right now it's looking at maybe 20 million domestic total (not including video) which for the amount of advertising they did for this movie is flop for a company like Lion's Gate. The per screen average was terrible for this movie. I was kind of pulling for this after hearing Eli on Stern this week and how he still lives with his brother and drives the same car from 7 years ago because he's still waiting to get paid on his movies. That shit's wrong. This kind of opening, however, lowers his buzz substantially since in horror the director is the star. A 10 mill opening for any star these days is considered a bomb/step back. He can't even touch SAW'S box office. Hopefully, he puts aside the Trailer Trash movie he was talking about on Stern(he's not at Quentin's level to do something as indulgent as that) and finds something to vault him to next level. We'll see if he actually gets CELL greenlit right now. He may have to go back and do another low budget horror flick and hope it opens huge to get the stink off him of this.
Porn is torture. Torture porn is worse. by Bronx Cheer	Jun 10th, 2007 01:05:42 PM
Torture porn will be the final undoing of our modern space-age civilization. I firmly and steadfastly believe that Eli Roth, he of the mascara and prosthetic turtleneck, is single-handedly responsible for the destruction of Virtue and Good Hygiene. And because Harry supports him...let's just say that there will be a reckoning.
Manic_Rage, I agree with your diatribe on many points by Bronx Cheer	Jun 10th, 2007 01:14:16 PM
And I also agree that it would be nice to see a little less of the "you're an asshole" vs. "no, you're an asshole" banter. Granted, this sort of witty back-and-forth is pretty much SOP for forums like this, but it doesn't make it right. I might see either KNOCKED UP or ONCE this afternoon wearing clean spring-fresh socks.
Here's the thing by trippymcgee	Jun 10th, 2007 01:29:30 PM
Hostel 2 is a failure on a commercial and critical level. It's that simple. This site ran what seemed to be like 2 or 3 stories a day on this film for the smallest and most pointless things. What happened? 8.6 million opening weekend. That is not a good opening no matter how it is spun on here. The first one made nearly 20 million in it's opening weekend. This was a heavily promoted sequel and it failed. Critics "don't get it" and it's apparent audiences don't care.
WHY VERN SHOULD RUN THIS SITE by lecter1914	Jun 10th, 2007 02:13:42 PM
Wow, so Vern totally comes out and downplays the hype for a movie Harry thinks is the best movie of the summer. I applaud you Herc, I applaud you.
Pompous Twit. by manic_rage	Jun 10th, 2007 02:22:56 PM
Oh Is it because I am English,? I am pompous. Oh I must digress and receed back to my Old English Manor to drink my warm brandy and expect my Butler to bring my Newspaper properly ironed and crisp [as so not to get newprint over my cotton gloves] I do enjoy many a game of Polo and Croquet on the weekend with my esteemed and loyal friends back from my Eton and Cambridge days. What jolly old fun we had. Now leave me in peace, while I bask in the glory days of my time during the Boer War and World War One wearing many a medal upon my twead-leather-elbowed Blazer...Twiddling my graying Moustache of considerable length.
the worst movie ive ever stolen by slowreader	Jun 10th, 2007 02:37:26 PM
i saw hostel 2 mostly based on reccomends from this site, but also because of interviews with eli roth where he seemed to acknowledge short comings of his first hostel film and i really wanted to like the movie based on the highly entertaining grindhouse trailer. a bunch of positive reviews and the promise of 'the most show stopping amazing horror movie ending of all time' got me to the point where i was willing to watch this film but there was no way i was gambling $8 on a sequel to a movie i didnt like. holy shit did i dodge a bullet. vern could not be more right, eli roth building up the ending of this movie in every single interview ive seen him do in retrospect is a HORRIBLE idea. its not amazing. its not shocking. its (SPOILER?) a guy getting his dick cut off. that's not so much a spoiler as it is a sad admission i think needs to be made to every person who has heard the end of this movie hyped. i dont think im alone here. piracy is having an unexpected effect on the movie industry where actually delivering a good movie matters. people are going to know before opening weekend if you are lying about the craziest ending of all time that will guarantee you at least one good weekend even if word of mouth kills it by the next. maybe i should have no room to talk because im a pirate of intellectual property, or maybe it really fucking matters because i am not alone. eli, im really sorry i stole your movie, but i was afraid of getting tricked into paying for something i would hate and unfortunately i was right. i dont think the poor returns are a reflection of people pirating a movie instead of watching it, i think its a reflection of the word getting out on this movie before opening weekend through people who had seen it and passed along the word that its not worth watching. incidentally the next time i read a positive review on here i need to take note when the standard the film is being judged against are SAW I, II, and III. how about upping our horror standards a little bit, regardless of whats being fed to us?
Manic Rage.... by tristeele	Jun 10th, 2007 02:47:05 PM
That was pretty funny. I actually really enjoyed that. "wearing many a medal upon my twead-leather-elbowed Blazer...Twiddling my graying Moustache of considerable length." Funny stuff! Have a nice day.
Less gore than the first by memento108	Jun 10th, 2007 02:48:25 PM
And I didn't even think that was possible. It was OK, but just OK...not the least bit scary, only bright part was the twist of Stuart (spelling?) turning into the real psycopath because he hates his wife. Other than that, this was nothing special. I actually didn't like the first because of the lack of gore, but christ....this had less, although the balls being cut off was great.
And i'm not saying all I care about is gore by memento108	Jun 10th, 2007 03:00:45 PM
But it's hard NOT to expect a good bit in one of these films. I just want a good story, as well, and this one failed majorly in that category.
Harry by trippymcgee	Jun 10th, 2007 03:13:38 PM
does not have a positive effect on box office performance, most people have no clue as to who he is and the ones that do have gotten FED UP with his pathetic pandering.
Spazatronic 2000 by trippymcgee	Jun 10th, 2007 03:16:22 PM
It will mostly likely make a profit, however, it will make less than half of what the original made while costing twice as much,not to mention the huge amount of promotion it received. Everybody knew it was out and few went to see. It is a failure.
In yo face, OHHHHH, in yo FACE! by TheUltraHumanite	Jun 10th, 2007 03:39:18 PM
Eil Roth, hopefully your brilliant idea of a movie comprised totally of fake movie trailers gets made, so i can bash you in the future about how much your ideas, films, and persona sucks ass, it was douchebags like you that made me change majors... FUCK OFF!
What what what what what. by manic_rage	Jun 10th, 2007 03:52:06 PM
I must say how proud I am to be English. While I sit here and marvel at my bad breath and wonky teeth, you may revel in the humour I have supplied. Now I will wonder why the french ever existed sat in my Library whilst my horse follick playfully on the lawn...
Hostel 2 was pretty kick ass! by jojo-pimp	Jun 10th, 2007 04:04:33 PM
It didnt take itself too seriously, yet still had tons of gore, decent acting believe it or not...and a pretty damn good ending. Not the best horror flic of all time, but definately worth going to the movies for.
Are you people serious??? by BrightEyes	Jun 10th, 2007 04:07:22 PM
You guys dont know shit about the industry if you think Hostel part 2 is a flop, it cost 10 million to make it has already made 8.8 million in its opening wekend. It may not be the blockbuster that they wanted but it went against so many big budget films. If you wanna talk about a flop talk about this weeks number one film, Oceans 13 cost 130 million to make and only made 37 million this weekend. You guys should be happy because Hostel 2 is gonna bring in a hell of a profit . Also I was at the afterparty for hostel and talked to james gunn and he said he liked hostel 2, I think all these horror guys are friends and support each other and dont attack and talk shit on other peoples films, maybe that's why there not on message boards and are out making films.
HUGE FLOP, Lion's Gate in the prelude to a panic by thegreatwhatzit	Jun 10th, 2007 04:23:01 PM
First Spaza...you defend this shit but you refer to Welles' classic as CITEZEN CANE (a film that you've obviously never screened?). You're a tool and a moron; I'll subsequently skip your messages, you're entirely bereft of credibility. Lion's Gate is already speculating why HOSTEL II is a flop. I'm sure they'll be enlightened to this this site for some rationale. The movie's commercial failure, thank God, will circumvent any further sequels. One producer of horror commerce recounted a panel of horror veterans (Stuart Gordon, Tobe Hooper, et al) debating the genre. Roth was invited as an apprenticing filmmaker (the incredibly derivative CABIN FEVER has just escaped). Roth indulged in some serious showboating, hogging the limelight. The coterie of experienced directors rolled their eyes and camouflaged their boredom with "What an asshole" smiles.
Does anyone else find it ironic... by Garbageman33	Jun 10th, 2007 04:36:31 PM
That this talkback's most vocal torture porn supporter takes his screenname from the world's most sensitive singer songwriter (Bright Eyes)?
mrs by BrightEyes	Jun 10th, 2007 04:40:53 PM
Im not saying you cant have an opinion, I just thought it was cool how all the horror directors stick together and help each other. It made me think of how hateful talkbackers could do something awsome if they put there time into something else, I dont know? I just thought it was really cool seeing all these horror directors there to support Eli. Also I have a band and it has brought fun times and I just finished shooting a short film and am talking to an editor to see if he'll cut it, so I've already done those.
MORIARTY by THE KNIGHT	Jun 10th, 2007 04:47:00 PM
no review on Hostel ehh?
What bollocks! by Tripman5000	Jun 10th, 2007 04:50:12 PM
The workprint been available did not hurt Hostel PT 2s B.O-every fucking film that's released at the cinema is online within a few hours,and they don't BOMB like this! Yes BOMB!As some people have pointed out,regardless of the budget,the promotion budget will be at least 4 times that of the movie and they will NOT make that back,even worldwide. So yes,that's a bomb,flop,a,stinker,whatever way you look at it!
Your delusional by BrightEyes	Jun 10th, 2007 04:58:27 PM
if you think Hostel 2 has bomb'd, it is already sitting pretty. Im done I cant anymore. Hostel 2 already made its profit if you dont think it has than your the ignorant one, a fact is a fact regardless of your views.
SLITHER by lecter1914	Jun 10th, 2007 04:59:57 PM
It was Good, not great. I had fun watching it, and would watch the first hour again and then cut it off since it loses steam there. All that being said...AICN does give coverage to other creative talent, just not nearly enough. And of course Gunn was gonna say he liked the film...what are you supposed to say about a film at a party for that film?
"Your the ignorant one". by Garbageman33	Jun 10th, 2007 05:01:14 PM
I love irony.
If you dont dig "torture porn" than why talk about it? by BrightEyes	Jun 10th, 2007 05:04:04 PM
You see I love Eli Roth and all his film's so I have no problem talking about it although for a while even I was getting sick of talking about him and I'm one of his biggest fans, so I cant even begin to think how some of the haters talk about the guy as much as I do. also I am 19 years old and am going to collage for film so I'm not fusterated at all, Eli broke in when he was 30 so I got some time. and I met Eli at the premere and he was the nicest guy ever, I doubt even the haters could hate him in person.
That's like asking why people who are pro-choice... by Garbageman33	Jun 10th, 2007 05:08:20 PM
Congregate around abortion clinics. After all, they're not into abortion, right?
And those pro-choice people who protest the clinics by BrightEyes	Jun 10th, 2007 05:11:06 PM
Are a bunch of assholes. Just like the haters. Wow you guys should be proud!
Um, actually the pro-choice people... by Garbageman33	Jun 10th, 2007 05:14:35 PM
Are there to protect the clinics. Glad to see your ignorance isn't limited to crappy horror movies. Have fun at DeVry.
yeah I fucked up by BrightEyes	Jun 10th, 2007 05:20:48 PM
but pro choice people go to abortion clinics to support a womens right to choose, So how does that at all fit with you hating Eli roth and comming to boards to say how much he sucks???
Lionsgate buzz by thegreatwhatzit	Jun 10th, 2007 05:21:19 PM
The following should be ascribed to rumor (at this point): there; some buzz that the Liongate personnel are finger-pointing each other as the blame--along with Roth--for HOSTEL II's failure. Pink slips may be distributed next week. And Eli Roth is no longer the company's Wonder Boy; he is the new millennium's Bert I. Gordon. As mentioned in previous posts, HOSTEL II doesn't require another $2 million to break even; try at least $20 million (ads, et al). By the way, plenty of actors on a film that Roth produced had the opportunity to personally meet the lad--and they pretty much gauged him at a "jerk-off," "dictating p#@+!." "dickwad," et al. Ah, you can feel the love. Eli, I hope that you're invited to QT's Christmas party. But don't expect a seat at the table. He'll probably ask you to slip-on a Frosty/Snowman suit and ring a bell to herald the other guests.
Hey guys... by TheRealSeveren	Jun 10th, 2007 05:29:30 PM
just take a breath and calm down a little...We can discuss this film and other flicks in a respectful way. When a TB gets to be a boxing match between a couple of film geeks its just not entertaining. Also, expressing your opinion about the film is great but attacking Harry and everyone else working on this site is beyond the pale...if you feel like someone sold out or posts stories too late then move on. No matter what you might tell yourself your opinion isnt that important because as Harry has said, the TBers represent a small % of the readership here. He runs this site for his friends and if you wanted to talk about a film that someone made from scratch that you knew and respected there would be nothing wrong with that.
Letdown.....Not terrible, but not good either. by Quake II	Jun 10th, 2007 06:24:27 PM
I think Hostel was a much better film overall. I couldn't care less about the 3 girls in this movie, the villians were not too scary and the whole movie felt rushed. I'm willing to bet that the production of Hostel II was a lot shorter than part 1. By jumping around and showing all the workings BEHIND the killing-for-pay business, we didn't spend enough time with the lead girls to give a shit about them. Jordan Ladd is fucking HOT though. She's the one thing I really did like in Hostel II.
its true..... by TheUltraHumanite	Jun 10th, 2007 06:27:12 PM
enough said
TBs are pretty much the only reason I come to this site by itaintcool06	Jun 10th, 2007 06:27:16 PM
Harry may think that TBers are a small percentage of the site, but I wonder how true that is for the people that visit this site. I could care less about Harry's opinion and come here mainl for the TBs. As everyone has noted, Harry's opinion lacks all credibility, because he's become an insider. Also, for someone who complains about TBers, it's not like he's particularly articulate. His review of Hostel 2 was, well, in a word, retarded. He thinks it's a defense of a moive to point out how derivative it is? If Eli Roth was the first person to ever think of a woman bathing in another woman's blood, wouldn't that be more impressive? And reducing the complex experience of a great horror movie, to "it's stories about survival" shows not only is he not even a mediocre critic, but also seems to never have been exposed to any kind of serious film criticism. I think the people on this TB have pretty reasoned opinions as to why Eli Roth sucks. I don't understand Harry's need to pick on the TBers in defense of Roth. But I think it sucks. This site is built on the type of people expressing their views in this TB, and Harry condescends to them in defense of his millionaire buddy. I just think it sucks. And Roth himself has identified why people get so angry by his crappy movies. He's right. Horror movies won't get made if they're not successful. So I think people get pissed when the people who are entrusted to make the horror movies make crap like Roth does. All we want is when the cycle comes back around and Horror is a viable genre is for the producers to take care in who they choose to make horror movies. When it's a no talent like Roth, yeah, horror fans are going to get upset. I get equally upset by the DOD, TCM and Hills remakes. And you know why I think those movies suck. Because the originals were actually about a lot more than "survival stories" and the new breed filmmakers abandonded the ideas that had been explored in the orginals and didn't replace them with any new ideas, but instead reduced them to mundane stories of survival with no subtext. The only recent horror movies I've thought were any good were Land of the Dead and 28 Weeks Later. For the record I haven't seen Hostel, Part 2. But do I really need to? It sounds like it's basically Hollywood's remake of Bloodsucking Freaks. Do I need to spend $12 and 90 minutes to know that's going to suck? Wait a minute that actually sounds pretty good. Oh wait, but Eli Roth is directing. It'll suck. Harry try removing the TBs and see how much traffic this site gets.
Spaz, My Friend by Rebeck3	Jun 10th, 2007 06:27:26 PM
Give it up, dude. Your movie tanked. Which shows enough people agree with the vast majority of talkbackers here and have no desire to watch this hack's torture porn. Oops, says Lions Gate. He makes films "people enjoy". Ehhh, not so much. Next up: "creative differences" on CELL and Eli Roth off the film. I'll bet you. He should be anyway for the way he talked about the screenwriters and King's book.
FLOP by mr.underwater	Jun 10th, 2007 06:30:24 PM
Didn't see that one coming. Oh wait, I did... Seriously, someone at Lion's Gate really fucked up. EVERY bootleg DVD guy on EVERY corner was selling this last weekend. Add to that, it always seemed to me that Hostel was a movie that a lot of people saw, but only a small portion of those people actually liked it (then again, here in New York Miike movies play theaters. We don't really need the watered down-American-moralistic version of it). So I thought this sequel was a pretty bad idea, opening it in the summer instead of October, even worse idea. Add that all up, well y'know. The Times has a story about how Roth killed horror. I really wouldn't go that far.
You guys are all assholes... by mailtruckinferno	Jun 10th, 2007 06:46:46 PM
This movies was fucking badass, shut the fuck up
Hostel 2 NOT as good as the original by Joey_Redballs	Jun 10th, 2007 06:51:53 PM
I saw Hostel 2. I also saw the live G4TV interview with Eli Roth on Friday. He compared Hostel 2 to The Road Warrior and Aliens (being that those are awesome sequels). Its beginning is more like Maniac Cop 2. And its ending is very unsatisfying. If you introduce a very, very bad guy…a child killer of all things possible…he should get snuffed. And the heroine isn’t much of a hero at all. The basic premise of the ending was VERY predictable. One line at the Harvest Festival gave it all away. I want to see a third Hostel where the whole fucking village gets obliterated except the mean-ass kids. And then I wouldn’t end it there. Remember the ending of Jay & Silent Bob Strikes Back, where they actually get on a plane and kick everyone’s ass who talked shit about them on the Internet. I would want the almost the same ending, except all the sick, rich bastards get lynched all around the world. Maybe their list of elite clientele could get exposed online complete with video evidence. Then a montage of the repercussions follows. I GIVE HOSTEL part II, 2 out of 4 stars. I gave Hostel part I 3 out of 4 stars for being fairly original, and for mixing genres. And to Eli Roth if you’re reading, I bought HOSTEL part I on DVD (complete with Best Buy exclusive bloodhound dog temporary tattoo). I’m going to “rent to own” Hostel part II, then put my copy in a plain paper sleeve and slide it inside my Hostel part I DVD case. THE MESSAGES OF BOTH HOSTEL FILMS Hostel part I’s message, “Other countries hate Americans.” Hostel part II’s message, “Money can buy you anything, and buy you out of anything.” P.P.S. I saw Ocean’s 13. Yes, I watch too many movies. I thought 13 was FAR better than 2, but still not as a fresh or fun as part 1. BUT WORTH SEEING. There are no breathtaking effects so you can wait for DVD. It’s not a big screen must see. Hopefully Hostel part 3 will be even more satisfying of a sequel as Ocean’s 13. Yes, there is a loophole for doing a GOOD Hostel part 3 (the blonde girlfriend of the first movie’s lead). BTW, Hostel Part II does not suck as much as Ocean’s 12.
THEKNIGHT... by TheRealMoriarty	Jun 10th, 2007 07:07:15 PM
... nope. As I mentioned in another talkback, I won't be writing anything at all about HOSTEL 2. One of the film's producers, Mike Fleiss, is producing a film I've been writing for the last year, and there's no way I can say anything about this without it being a conflict of interest.
ATTN: itaintcool06 by TheRealSeveren	Jun 10th, 2007 07:10:57 PM
You're right. The TB's are the main reason I come on this site as well and now that this site has the audience that it does they dont need to worry about breaking a story anymore. The reaction and responses of the TBers is really what sets this site apart from the rest. It is the perfect model for a forum based site. Most threads have inherent design flaws. This is the only one that is easy and fun to read as far as Entertainment goes. However, people don't read these to see who has bashed Harry in some new and exciting way. Insiders and fans alike come to this site for feedback and to compare notes and talk film which is one of the best ways to connect with someone new on an engaged level. We all love film here. Also, Eli Roth provides the commentary on Bloodsucking Freaks so take that for what its worth...what are some other examples of truly shocking endings in horror lately btw?
This movie is sick. Eli is messed up. by AvengingFist	Jun 10th, 2007 07:14:47 PM
sick movie
MORIARTY JUST BITCH SLAPPED HARRY!!! by Hint of Smegma	Jun 10th, 2007 07:18:27 PM
Fuck me. Integrity still exists at AICN. Although I expect Moriarty will soon be getting a pay cut/less articles/moving to another site......
Supporting this movie is just evil. by AvengingFist	Jun 10th, 2007 07:19:32 PM
Harry, you are messed up dude. How can you support this?
Eli should die. by AvengingFist	Jun 10th, 2007 07:22:00 PM
There I said it.
If Eli makes a film about blowing up the twin towers by AvengingFist	Jun 10th, 2007 07:30:12 PM
I bet harry will do a great review as well. hey we should all join the Nazis.
This is cool and all Harry, but what we all wanna know- by polyh3dron	Jun 10th, 2007 07:48:58 PM
Did you giggle?
Harry... please... get real... by DocArzt	Jun 10th, 2007 08:20:46 PM
Where the hell did the geek we all loved go? Come on man, you should be totally bummed that this guy is even making movies. Every aspect of Hostel one and two is just style importing. You know what I mean too, so don't ask for more of an argument. Roth stole from asian cinema just like another of your sycophantic obsessions I won't bother to name. Why aren't you digging for a real gem? Instead your promoting these half wits who do nothing but steal from the obscure corner of the video racks.
Correction....Lauren German by Quake II	Jun 10th, 2007 08:25:02 PM
Above I posted Jordan Ladd was hot in Hostel II...I meant Lauren German. This chick is so hot that I literally couldn't take my eyes off hers the whole movie. Figures she didn't show an ounce of flesh in the film. Milla Jovavich, watch out! Hostel II was worth the free passes I used to get in but not 10 bucks.
The box office numbers have spoken... by jimmy rabbitte	Jun 10th, 2007 08:50:24 PM
...this film did less than half of the original's opening weekend. Wow, after all that fuss, it only takes sixth place in the weekend's box office. Even Fantastic Four will probably open in the top two. Which is no accounting for taste; but atleast there is enough of a following that would warrant the coverage blitz of All Eli, All the Time. I wonder if any other movie will get such fanfare and only pull $8.75 million the first weekend.
ELI HATRED IS UNWARRANTED by Derek Wildstarr	Jun 10th, 2007 08:59:20 PM
Will someone please write me a list of specific reasons why people dont like Eli? Im serious, i dont know where the hatred stems from.
Ain't It Cool has never been about box office by Vern	Jun 10th, 2007 09:00:42 PM
I just gotta say, it really bothers me how so many of you guys think Harry has been somehow proven wrong when a movie he likes loses money or vice versa. Have you ever seen a box office chart posted on here? This place is and has always been about Harry and other people's love (or sometimes hate) for movies. It's for fans of movies. Sometimes you like a movie everybody else hates. I still think you fellas are wrong about HULK, for example. If you are one of those weirdos who is obsessed with tallying the money some corporation is making off of movies then you know to go elsewhere because you're not gonna get your fix here. Harry says he loves HOSTEL because he geniunely loves HOSTEL. He says he hates FANTASTIC FOUR because he genuinely hates FANTASTIC FOUR. If you think his tastes should be expected to dictate the economics of the movie industry then you are weird and make me uncomfortable. Also, what is your take on WILD HOGS? Did you like that one? Well you're WRONG then because it made money, and anyone who dislikes it is DISPROVEN! Now it is officially your favorite movie! My colleagues here are some funny dudes. A lotta times I don't understand the movies they get worked up about. One example is GLADIATOR. I hated that fuckin movie, but they hyped that shit six ways to Sunday and claimed it was Ridley Scott's best - meaning better than ALIEN - which I think is insane. Well, it also was a huge international hit and won best picture in that case. Other times they like more of a niche movie or maybe even a misunderstood movie or a movie that only they like and everyone else hates. That's because they are talking about opinions, not mathematical figures. The day The Ain't It Cool starts writing for trainspotters obsessed with box office figures I will stop writing here. Until then quit attaching your weird fixations to Harry, he never asked to be a part of that shit. I know you're talking about him and not me but I take that shit personally because I would never want to be associated with people who are into that sicko box office predicting shit that plagues our society. thanks.
Nice Straw Man by bluemcpoo	Jun 10th, 2007 09:07:11 PM
Most of the TB thread is filled with intelligent arguments against Hostel from almost every spectrum. People use the box office numbers as just one more indicator on top of the numerous justifications for the Hostel II Sucks argument, and AICN leaps all over it and blows it up by making it seem it was the only thing people were using to disparage Hostel. Well done.
Sorry Vern... by Billyeveryteen	Jun 10th, 2007 09:14:11 PM
You worship Segal, your opinion is poo. Sadly, AICN has had Eli's cock too far down their throat, to preserve any credibility.
Eli Roth by BrightEyes	Jun 10th, 2007 09:30:42 PM
Rocks. Accept it and move on.
Never in the history.... by tristeele	Jun 10th, 2007 09:33:44 PM
of this site have I seen this many staffers try to stick up for Harry and the site. Its honestly a bit surreal. For a group of people who only represent '5%' of the site- We seem to really be getting to all of you. Also - Vern- like Mr Sinister said before and many people will say after- STFU - ITS OBVIOUS your boss has long ago sold out. Your just another staffer on here trying to get us to stop feeling the way we feel. Also TheRealSeveren shut the fuck up - What are you related to Harry? I call PLANT.
VERN by lecter1914	Jun 10th, 2007 09:38:21 PM
Love your writing, but I think you missed the point of why people are bringing up box office. This site has been force feeding us everything Eli despite the fact that us talkbackers have been saying we don't really want to be force fed anymore Eli. And although I don't really believe box office reflects quality, I think most of us are just bringing up its dismal box office to really nail the point home that the vast majority of us just dont like teh guys films. I don't know anything about him personally and would never insult him as a person but his films suck. Hopefully these BO numbers will let the AICN staffers know that not only do we not care about ROth and his "movies", but neither does the rest of the movie going public.
Actually, this site's box office clout is growing... by mr.underwater	Jun 10th, 2007 09:47:26 PM
The last time I remember this site flooded with praise for one singular movie (and Harry was the only quote used on the poster) was Way of the Gun. That opened at #10. So, maybe in four or five more years AiCN will have the influence to break top five.
Vern, what a load of hypocritical shyte. by Hint of Smegma	Jun 10th, 2007 09:52:00 PM
What about the times this site has asked it's readers to 'get out there' and support a movie to boost it's box office? If that stuff didn't matter, then why bother? You could just review the movie, enjoy it, and not give a fuck how it does at the box office which patently is not always the case here. Personally, I don't give a fig for how a film does financially, if I like is is all I care about but I do feel the need to call you on that. You already work for a site that behaves the way you 'couldn't put up with', so put your money where your mouth is, Spartacus, and head off to another site. No? What a surprise. What is really pissing off a large portion of your readers - and while Harry may think only 5% of his readers think like this, the talkbackers are just the mouthy wing of your larger readership and thus representative of what a damn site more people think - is the complete prostitution going on in this site lately. Harry's never been the most ethical of reviewers - remember 'pwesents'? - but this shit has accelerated to a degree that's just sickening. It's one thing to like a film and promote it, we expect that (IT'S A FUCKING MOVIE SITE, MOST OF US HAVE FIGURED THAT OUT!!) It's something else entirely to read reviews that are actually nothing more that product placement, or reviews for personal 'friends' that funnily enough proclaim said movies to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Of course Harry's entitled to do it - it's his site after all - but don't expect people who come here to like it, or to keep quiet about it. Frankly, after your last post the only person on this site I have any respect for currently is Moriarty. Maybe the pair of you could take lessons from him and actually extend the lifetime of this site. Much more of this shit and you won't have as large an audience - and I can guarantee you that if this site fails, I doubt ol' Eli or Quentin will have any time for Harry any more.
WILD HOGS is my favorite movie. by Bronx Cheer	Jun 10th, 2007 09:58:46 PM
WILD HOGS is my favorite movie.WILD HOGS is my favorite movie.WILD HOGS is my favorite movie.WILD HOGS is my favorite movie.WILD HOGS is my favorite movie.WILD HOGS is my favorite movie.WILD HOGS is my favorite movie.WILD HOGS is my favorite movie. Yes, it was great.
It ain't about the money. by jimmy rabbitte	Jun 10th, 2007 10:03:43 PM
I wasn't suggesting it was. lecter1914 hit upon exactly what I was trying to say. Of course a big box office doesn't equal a great film; (I wasn't all that crazy about Gladiator either.) However, at some point I do have to admit that high ticket receipts mean a lot of people wanted to see a film, (especially on opening weekend), while low sales mean that not many people were interested. I, also, do have to admit that the only place that really gave Hostel 2 the extra build up ( that I saw ) was AICN. That could only be based on Harry's excitement about the release of the film; which is of course what AICN is really all about. I do admire Harry's entusiasm for movies; and appreciate his dedication to a friend... even if I don't agree with his assesment of this particular film. Good of you to come down on his side like you did ,Vern.
Smegma, Vern was pretty clear about his take on BO by Bronx Cheer	Jun 10th, 2007 10:05:13 PM
But if someone says, Get out there and show some support for this film while it matters, that's only an acknowledgment that box office matters to the people who decide what movies to make. Case in point: Deuce Bigalow 2. If people quit flocking to crappy movies, the studios would rethink their approach to what they green light. But if people insist on filling seats for shite, then shite we shall receive. Many people argue that way about the FF4 sequel. The first was a hit. Why screw with success?
Oh... and... by jimmy rabbitte	Jun 10th, 2007 10:10:56 PM
I didn't see "Wild Hogs." Was that the one with Travolta, Tim Allen and William H. Macy? The trailer looked ridiculous to me; but if the numbers were there then somebody wanted to see it. How's Delta Farce doing?
Bronx by Hint of Smegma	Jun 10th, 2007 10:16:57 PM
You can't have it both ways mate. He says he won't take that behaviour? I don't see any distinction between what he's described and what I've pointed out. If Box Office doesn't matter to anyone here, then they wouldn't have told people to get out and boost box office. Which has been done here and is the complete opposite of what he's saying goes on. Is it wrong to suggest we should get out and support a favoured film? Course not. But to then say this site isn't about the box office is bullshit. And hypocritical. Oh, and bullshit. Did I mention it's hypocritical bullshit? Because that, there, is hypocritical bullshit. And I do agree with you on one point - we do get a lot of shit films because of going to see shit films. Lok at Hostel 2 for example. Pure shit, and vile shit from beginning to end, and all thanks to every punter who plonked $10 down for the first pile of the brown stinky stuff.
Hint of Smegma, did I mention I liked your name? by Bronx Cheer	Jun 10th, 2007 10:24:19 PM
It's subtle, yet evocative.
Thanks. That's exactly what I was aiming for. by Hint of Smegma	Jun 10th, 2007 10:28:08 PM
Subtle, yet evocative. That's me all over.
Roth's next epic: HILLBILLIES IN A HAUNTED HOUSE 2 by thegreatwhatzit	Jun 10th, 2007 10:42:23 PM
The good news: similar to HOSTEL 2, the equally crappy DEUCE BIGALOW 2 flopped at the boxoffice. Where's the appreciation for authentic TALENT like Neil Marshall? The Brit director turns boa-constrictive budgets into gold (DOG SOLDIERS is the best "werewolf" film since THE HOWLING). But please don't mention Marshall and Roth in the same breath; maybe Roth can nail a gig as director of a Sci-Fi Channel crapfest.
Whatzit, you just did.. by Hint of Smegma	Jun 10th, 2007 10:48:26 PM
...mention Marshall and Roth in the same sentence at least. But yes, Dog Soldiers was truly great and the Descent was, while not my favourite film by a long shot, very well done all round. Looking forward to Marshall's coming work - not something I can say about Roth. What I can say about Roth is that I know nothing about him personally, could be a great chap, but all his movies so far have been utterly distasteful and without any merit as far as I'm concerned.
This site is about promoting movies Harry likes by superninja	Jun 10th, 2007 10:57:19 PM
and Harry just happens to like his friends' movies. Or, smashing movies he's not on board with, for whatever personal reason. The rest of the reviewers just exist as a counterpoint and to provide content. This has pretty much been the deal from day 1 - why complain?
It was actually extremely amusing when all of the by superninja	Jun 10th, 2007 10:58:54 PM
webmasters from the other sites years ago accused Harry of having unethical journalistic standards and wanted to punish him.
Unethical journalistic standards is one thing.. by Hint of Smegma	Jun 10th, 2007 11:31:32 PM
...the standards of a whore at the docks when the fleet comes in are something else entirely. I agree to a degree though - Harry isn't a journalist so shouldn't be held to the same standards. But you know what..? Just put up ads for Toshiba on the site, for fecks sake. Get your money that way rather than trying to slip it in our back doors, so to speak. Stand up for films you like that your new found 'best bud' made, that 95% of the rest of the population hate - but don't expect that 95% to swallow it. And when you act like a complete slut in a public arena, don't expect the witnesses to think you're a lily white virgin.
Yeah, but Harry is not that guy. by superninja	Jun 10th, 2007 11:34:10 PM
So it easier to just accept what he is and critise the films on its own merits or demerits as it were and not listen to his explanations. This site thrives off of this stuff, you know that, right?
nah by BrightEyes	Jun 10th, 2007 11:46:55 PM
more Eli Roth news please
Hint of Smegma, Lionsgate struck again by thegreatwhatzit	Jun 10th, 2007 11:52:28 PM
I was impressed with THE DESCENT; keep in mind that Lionsgate denied Marshall's movie the same lavish p.r. expense that was reserved for HOSTEL 2. Lionsgate also forfeited Marshall's original ending (the U.S. release was handicapped with Lionsgate's vision, not Marshall's). The company, of course, has been proerly chastised with the failure of Roth's movie. Lionsgate habitually purchases lame horror quickies for the direct-to-DVD market (nice poster art, lousy movies). One of their turkeys, ARE YOU SCARED?, is a shameless rip-off of the company's SAW franchise! As for Roth, maybe he'll negotiate more sausage in a Sci-Fi Channel movie (maybe one of those CGI-snake movies; hire Lorenzo Lamas, his talent is on par with Roth's).
It's easy to say that, ninja by Hint of Smegma	Jun 10th, 2007 11:54:54 PM
...but the simple fact is Harry may have started the site with no journalistic responsibilities, but it's built over the years to where it's at now - and people come here to read movie reviews, get an idea if there's something they want to see, or not as the case may be. I've never relied on Harry's reviews, some of the other staffers here have him beat cold in terms of writing and respectability. However as the 'head' of the site, behaving the way he's been doing, more so of late than previously, is only damaging the place. I don't remember a time in the past where he's been getting so much flak from the readers here, and that's a sign that he's fucked up and pissed a lot of people off. As this site and all the good things that are happening for him in his life because of it is ultimately predicated upon people coming here to read reviews about movies, that would worry me personally. Just the way if my job depended on something, and I was fucking that something up, I'd have a right to be a bit concerned and maybe might think about what it was I was doing wrong that was pissing so many people off. Not pandering to your audience is one thing if you do have any kind of integrity, in fact it's to be applauded but sticking two fingers up to your audience while accepting a brown envelope from your pimp does leave a bit of a nasty taste in the mouth, regardless of the intentions he had when he started the site over 10 years ago.
Hint of Smeg. by superninja	Jun 11th, 2007 12:07:13 AM
What could this site possibly do to damage its credibility further? Is that even possible? Hahah.
They figured out a long time ago that stirring up by superninja	Jun 11th, 2007 12:08:34 AM
the Groundings = HITS GALORE!
Whatzit by Hint of Smegma	Jun 11th, 2007 12:13:01 AM
I was impressed with the Descent also; I just didn't enjoy it as much as I'd hoped.(Just like to point out, I'm one of the chosen people, English, so luckily I was spared the American ending) As far as horror films go it did give me hope that maybe the horror genre wasn't going to be completely destroyed by Saw and it's pathetic sequels, or the much hyped Cabin Fever and then Hostel to list but a smattering of mediocrity. While I wasn't too keen on the film itself, the talent that went into the Descent was impossible to ignore. And that's the thing I think Harry and Vern et al seem to forget - a lot of people here can watch a film, not like it, yet appreciate the talent that went into it. Then there are films that you can't help but throw your arms up and say fuck being charitable to the film makers, that was shit. Roth's film catalogue, for example.
BO does matter by itaintcool06	Jun 11th, 2007 12:18:02 AM
When it comes to a movie like Hostel 2, box office is all that matters. It's only purpose is to make money. That is how it is like porn, and unlike, say, a real movie. I'm sure many people would see a movie like 28 Weeks Later, and think that the director has a future as a filmmaker, regardless of the box office. Just as I think that QT and Rodriguez will survive the weak BO of Grindhouse, and would have even without their track record. Eli Roth will survive as a filmmaker only as long as he is making people money. Nobody makes this more clear than Roth himself. He is just so desperate to be liked. It's another quality about him I find odious, and makes him completely illegitimate as a filmmaker, and particularly a maker of horror films. He's not trying to say anything at all with his movies. He's just trying to be popular. And in case I haven't made it clear, Eli Roth sucks. And this websites insistence in defending him at the cost of putting down the people who visit this site is quite frankly, disturbing. Guys, really. Think about it. You're wrong on this one and your insulting the very people who make your existence on this site possible in the process.
Ninja....you got me there pal. by Hint of Smegma	Jun 11th, 2007 12:18:14 AM
There are people here though that try to behave well, Moriarty proved that in this very thread. So there's hope that Harry might get the stars out of his eyes, the cock of corporate hospitality out of his ass and get back to reviewing things without such slavering bias.
frg, you rock! Hint of Smega... by thegreatwhatzit	Jun 11th, 2007 12:29:54 AM
Agree with you 200% As for the derivative CABIN FEVER, Roth pledged a "shock ending" (translation: ripping-off NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD, his "surviving" hero is slain by rednecks). CABIN FEVER is only slightly memorable as a result of Cerina Vincent's hot bod (her next film is RETURN TO HOUSE ON HAUNTED HILL). Jordan Ladd was somewhere in there, but Roth just can't write women's roles without sinking into misogyny.
Hey, at least we still have Moriarty. by superninja	Jun 11th, 2007 12:38:35 AM

Cabin Fever...his 'ode' to Raimi.... by Hint of Smegma	Jun 11th, 2007 12:44:44 AM
...for tribute, read "I have no original idea's WHATSOEVER!!" As to his strong roles for women, what a pile of dreck. They either get their knockers out (always appreciated of course but strong doesn't always equate to slut, funnily enough), get killed or in this latest offering of celluloid diarrheoa pay off their tormentors. Wowser. Strong women indeed.....The very spirit of Ripley, Trinity, Scully etc.....
Movie would have been better by Hint of Smegma	Jun 11th, 2007 01:02:40 AM
If it had been by a different director. With a different premise. And different actors.
I can't agree. by Hint of Smegma	Jun 11th, 2007 01:17:17 AM
There was nothing there that engaged me on the acting level. I can forgive that to a degree when a film has energy, or an entertaining plot. Here there was nothing to shore up the shaky acting.
did anyone expect hostel 2 to make alot of money by supercowbell 4 cant stop the cowbell	Jun 11th, 2007 01:25:34 AM
the first one opened with 19 mil fell hard in its second week and only made 47 mil altogether, which was pretty good for its budget, but it wasnt no blockbuster. it wasnt like there was a huge demand for a sequel. i can understand how SR is getting one because it still made 200 mil in the u.s., which wasnt good for its budget, but it did make 391 mil worldwide, and the fact that the second one should be cheaper seeing as they have alot of the sets already made from the first one anyway. and harry dont get me banned again, all i did was give some box office numbers.
oh and... by supercowbell 4 cant stop the cowbell	Jun 11th, 2007 01:29:10 AM
the rentals for SR was pretty good to. maybe they made the decision to make another hostel based on rentals and sales: http://the-numbers.com/interac tive/newsStory.php?newsID=1886 i dont know the totals though, but they were probably pretty good all together
Listen up, fuckers by Vern	Jun 11th, 2007 02:05:58 AM
by which I mean "gents." I apologize for pissing everybody off further, by I stand by what I said. To "bluemcpoo," I was not making a straw man argument. I don't give a shit about defending HOSTEL 2 (which I thought was arguably better than the first one, which was only okay, and neither are great). If I am for some reason supposed to rebut every argument in this talkback against a movie I thought was okay then I FUCKIN QUIT. I don't want that job but thanks for the offer. BILLY EVERYTEEN: nice to see you chime in there bud, you have always been cruel to me but at least you make up for it by, uh, whatever it is that you offer with those types of observations. thanks buddy. To Smegma guy, come on dude. Cool it. You are entirely off base. Please forward your posts to Mcpoo so he can understand what a straw man argument is. Obviously you know I did not mean "box office has never once been discussed in any context in the ten year history of Ain't It Cool News." But many movie sights (comingsoon, moviehole, rope of silicon, hot button, elsewhere) are constantly concerned with the week's box office charts, predicting box office, etc. Of course there are times when Harry, or any movie fan, is gonna say "damn, too bad Grindhouse is doing so bad" or whatever. But I am glad Harry has never made that Entertainment Tonight shit a regular part of what he does here. He is not one of these types who obsesses over the figures every week. I know some of them and they can be nice but, let's face it, they are deranged. That shit is ridiculous. It's removing everything I like about the artform of movies and turning it into fantasy baseball, plus furthering our culture's crushing obsession with other people's wealth. Fuck that. Don't be Ellis. That's all I'm saying and whatever you have read into it that I did not say, please remove that part, thanks. As for Harry being my "boss," yeah right. As for Harry getting paid off by Toshiba, sounds ridiculous to me but if anyone finds out it's true please tell Harry to cut me in on that shit because I could use it. I don't get paid for this and for the record I turned down pretty good money to review Live Free or Die [?] for someone else. I thought it would be wrong to review it without the presence of the talkbackers. So please give me a little credit here fellas, I am your friend, you just don't know it because you are blinded by anger against society. For the record my favorite movie this year so far is BLACK BOOK, but since it has not made much money in the U.S. I will reconsider for you guys. thanks. p.s. somehow I got through this talkback without ever using the term TORTURE PORN. My review of HOSTEL II is over on my geocities.com/outlawvern if you need to see me take that bullshit on again.
Nice Overreaction, VW... by TheRealMoriarty	Jun 11th, 2007 02:32:51 AM
When I say I won't review it, it's because no review I write will satisfy. If I hate it, you'll say it's a pose. If I liked it, you'll say I'm cowtowing to my producer. No matter what, I shouldn't review it. It's a simple line in the sand, and if it offends you so greatly, I suggest having someone change your diaper.
VW by Vern	Jun 11th, 2007 02:36:08 AM
I think you missed Mori's point there, bud. If he wrote a positive review and then you found out he had a screenplay with the same producer, you would rightfully be suspicious of his review. He was saying he wanted to avoid conflicts of interest. You can't win man, you say something nice about something you must've been bought out, you try to avoid the appearance of being bought out you're lame. I don't really know Harry or Mori too well. But in my experience they are good guys, I think they are always well meaning and I don't think they are bought out. But I hope they are because I want my cut. In my opinion if you want to go after Harry you shouldn't look for conspiracy theories, you should go after him for that shit about the lady soaking in Dawn Weiner's blood being sexy. That part almost made me agree with you boys about "torture porn." My interpretation of that scene was pretty different, there were no boners involved whatsoever.
i have never diskliked a movie based on its box office. by supercowbell 4 cant stop the cowbell	Jun 11th, 2007 02:36:10 AM
i fuckin like grandmas boy for fucks sake.
And For The Record... by TheRealMoriarty	Jun 11th, 2007 02:36:56 AM
... my vocal criticism of Tom Rothman in my "open letter to him" while working at Fox on two different projects led to those projects being killed. And I knew full well that would happen if I spoke my mind. So when you call me a sell-out, you can go fuck yourself. I've put my balls on the line before, and I paid the price for it. In this case, HOSTEL 2 isn't worth the effort either way, and frankly, no review matters based on the vehemence of response from people on both sides of this one. If I have something that needs to be said, I say it, and I've proven that plenty of times. So go cry about it somewhere else.
Again, blithely ignoring the concern of the majority.. by Hint of Smegma	Jun 11th, 2007 02:39:52 AM
..who are criticising Harry. Your first post gives the impression you're lumping everyone having a go at him with the FEW who have been mentioning BO. I didn't before you mentioned it. Neither did most of those pissed off here. As for Harry being paid off by Toshiba, who knows. But lets face it, why the fuck would YOU write a blurb about individual players you bought, down to the model number? Why would YOU suddenly throw your weight behind a new format for watching films that according to those in the know, if there is a winner in HD, won't be the one. Hmmmm???? Why then suddenly start exclusively reviewing HD-DVD discs as opposed to both HD formats? Why also blatantly lie over said formats technical spec - all comments of which, backwards compatability being exclusive and Blu Ray not being so, are easily looked up and disproved...? Harry's meant to be an authority on film, I find it hard to believe he's that far off the pulse regarding such things. All of this after recent, much criticised comments including what appears to be product placement on a scale more obvious than I, Robot achieved. Oh, and also after plugging a crappy movie made by a personal friend as if it was the second coming. See a trend.....see why we may be sceptical as to his motives...? Forgive me, fudger, whoops, I mean gent, but I smell haddock, cod, bloater, sardines....you get where I'm going here? And it ain't to TARGET for a YAMAGUCHI HD-1500 HD DVD PLAYER, after a brief stop at BIG GULP for their extra special tasty CORONARY SHAKE. There's a reason people here are lashing out at Harry, and it's shit like that. You know what Vern, it could all be like you say, Harry's innocent, not selling out, we're all world hating assholes. But when you look at all these things, let alone the perceived sycophancy of Harry towards various celebs, they don't look right, do they? But hey, don't worry about such a massive loss in readers goodwill due to that behaviour, mistaken on our part or not. We're only 5% of your readers right? Fuck what we think...it couldn't possibly be representative right? Which means you guys don't have to do anything about said behaviour. Oh and as an aside, Revenge, way to miss the point man. So far Moriarty is the only one showing credibility....he's not reviewing it EITHER WAY, positive or negative, because he has a personal connection to the film, quite the opposite of what most other people here are complaining about. That whooshing sound you heard was the logic blatting over your head at mach 3.
Oh and Moriarty... by Hint of Smegma	Jun 11th, 2007 02:46:51 AM
...regardless what you or Vern or the big H might think about my motives for ripping him lately, kudos to you for giving people a reason to still think this site's got credibility in any way. I might be a world hating fucker, according to Vern, I might even be wrong about Harry (I don't think so, though) but you deserve people's respect for your stand. Oh, and Vern, one thing we agree on - that scene being found erotic or sensual in any way by anyone is very disturbing.
Black Book!!! by 9banned0.5furious	Jun 11th, 2007 03:38:56 AM
Vern represent!...and turned down money for rewieving Die [?] 4? Kudos galore.
The Thing is a wee bit different... by Hint of Smegma	Jun 11th, 2007 04:05:34 AM
.....it's a great movie. Plenty of them don't make money at the BO......(and I'd like to point out I haven't mentioned BO as an indicator of quality here) but do you really think in 26 years, Hostel 2 will be as well thought of....? Me, not thinking that. Nope, not at all.
Boring.... by jpdisco	Jun 11th, 2007 05:03:28 AM
Has anyone actually read this whole talkback? It's longer than War & Peace. And cheers CQuest for finishing off ruining a movie that Harry started.
Eli's a Jew? by AvengingFist	Jun 11th, 2007 05:04:03 AM
ooooo
Vern is like Harry's little pet poodle. by AvengingFist	Jun 11th, 2007 05:05:26 AM
Yes Vern, Paris Hilton also went to prison.
Blue Ray is better by AvengingFist	Jun 11th, 2007 05:06:35 AM
eom
Wow... Support the Harry Defense League by DocArzt	Jun 11th, 2007 07:27:22 AM
You AICN guys really stick together. What's funny is that you are avoiding the central and most damning argument, which is that Harry is stroking his friend. I think the question is "Would Harry EVER give Eli Roth a negative review?" I have to say, I don't believe he would. And the box office arguments are ridiculous. Looking at box office is the only way to gauge popularity, and yes value is a quantitative equation. How can you say it doesn't matter? The problem is, what nobody is addressing is the death knell for AICN, which is that certain writers here are engaged in the business of promoting the work of their associates (and themselves, let's not forget Pavlov's Dogs) and their friends. The question isn't the various angles that people are trying to use to prove Harry wrong, its the question as to whether or not there is any integrity in the review. Any self respecting film geek should be appalled with the way Roth quilts together visual and story elements from other films with no sense of homage at all. personally, I'll never forgive him for saying there is a scene in Phantasm where they say they are going to a party. A statement which demands Roth's horror-movie-geek credentials on a silver platter. But seriously, address the question of whether Harry has a history of posting gushing reviews of his friends work. Don't you guys admit that makes Harry look like a bit of a sycophant?
Grindhouse, now Hostel 2 by SteffanLongdon	Jun 11th, 2007 07:32:10 AM
AICN, are you a jinx to movies that you give blanket coverage to. Did you know something we didn't? Is that what all the coverage was last week?
Grindhouse, now Hostel 2 by SteffanLongdon	Jun 11th, 2007 07:32:28 AM
AICN, are you a jinx to movies that you give blanket coverage to. Did you know something we didn't? Is that what all the coverage was last week?
Spazatronic by DocArzt	Jun 11th, 2007 08:08:27 AM
I didn't say it was right, I said it was the way it is. Look up popularity in the dictionary and you might understand a little better.
Spazatronic by DocArzt	Jun 11th, 2007 08:13:21 AM
I didn't say it was right, I said it was the way it is. Look up popularity in the dictionary and you might understand a little better. Really, I can buy that people would love the movie. I loved Grindhouse, for instance, Planet Terror at least; didn't care for Death Proof much at all. But, regardless, if someone is talking in terms of popularity, yeah... box office means everything. As for Billboard, Pink Floyd's Darkside of the Moon stayed on the album charts for nearly twenty years... I think there is something to be said for both sides of the arguments. Statistics reward flashes in the pan like roth and your computerized pop divas, but they also vindicate artists. But again, popularity isn't the point.
Oh and Spaz... by DocArzt	Jun 11th, 2007 08:32:47 AM
You should be thankful, if you are a Roth fan, that people do take Box Office seriously otherwise there would never have been a Hostel 2 on the fast track.
Somebody SPOIL the ending for me.. by BanAllFIRSTPosters	Jun 11th, 2007 08:33:01 AM
please.
Harry doesnt understand the production process by emeraldboy	Jun 11th, 2007 08:56:29 AM
and if, when the time comes and he does make movies. He Will understand, one thing very quicky, the days of lenghty sauntering filmmaking days are over. Time is money. Schedules are short. To prove my point about how wrong fans can be. There is an epiosde in the simpsons, where homer is trying to patch up the differences after his fall out with his brother Herb. Herb tasks homer with building a car. The Car that homer designs is horrible and it destroys herb's company in an instant. film fans can, bitch, wail, moan, do mini-films. But in the end, they will never get control of the system.
You misunderstand, Vern.. by Billyeveryteen	Jun 11th, 2007 08:57:20 AM
You are a hero to us, a true champion of cutting through the bullshit. What AICN is doing for Eli is just gross.
Horror Movies by WerePlatypus	Jun 11th, 2007 09:19:45 AM
don't feel like much of a genre to me. What is its rich history, exactly . . . and how does it compare to Drama or Action or Comedy? I work at a video store, and the percentage of absolute garbage in the "horror" section, filled with B-movie after B-movie, is absolutely limited to a set number of plots, stylistic choices, etc. I think "horror" is a sub-genre at best, a tiny blip composed of very little. I gueess the only possible innovation is to up the shock value as much as possible, pay some money for cinematography, and give homage to the "rich tradition" of the "genre." But is that really an innovation? Fine, Hostel is a decent movie. . . for the sub-genre of Horror, but it sucks otherwise. Can it even be compared tecnically, etc. to Pan's Labrynth, Children of Men, The Fountain, and so on? What about a low-budget, poorly shot movie like 10 items or less? Face it: Talking about Hostel in any postive way REQUIRES you to take it in terms of a stupid, limited genre with very few artistic innovations.
Direct result by dcut75	Jun 11th, 2007 09:39:07 AM
of piracy. Shame.
DocArtz by Vern	Jun 11th, 2007 09:44:48 AM
You're right, that is a legitimate complaint, I understand that. I personally wouldn't want to do that. I am probaly a little too zealous on that front, I haven't reviewed a Guillermo Del Toro movie since Moriarty got a blurb from him for my book - and I never met the guy, and he's one of my favorite directors. I just didn't want to worry to myself that I was self censoring because I suddenly realized the guy might be reading. I don't want to have to worry about that. So I understand what you're saying about Harry being friends with Mr. Roth. But on the other hand, anybody who is somehow tricked or manipulated by this is not fuckin paying attention. Harry has been writing about his buddy Eli since long before anybody gave a shit. I mean look at the beginning of the review, he's not pretending he's not biased. And at least one of the Hostel reviews they posted had a sarcastic headline about "the movie we refused to cover." I mean I agree with you, I would take his review with an extra grain of salt from the usual grain of salt. But if you've been reading this sight for any period of time this is nothing new. You've seen Harry's exuberance for movies and directors he falls in love with. Do you remember SIX STRING SAMURAI? I don't think it's just Harry either - I still can't figure out why all the writers here and elsewhere flipped out over that piece of shit BEHIND THE MASK: THE RISE OF LESLIE VERNON. "Movie geeks" are like that, they get excited easily. Personally, I try to be a little skeptical about ANY movie I mostly hear about on the internet. Because it is rare that the hype is not at least a little bit too much for the actual movie. For my tastes, Harry is over-excited about this movie, and I don't agree with his interpretation of it. But I think his review is more credible than alot of the reviews I've read, particularly the one in Dave Poland's column. At least Harry approaches it as a horror movie and understands the genre. And his friendship with Roth clouds his review less than Poland's emotions about so called torture porn. Also one thing I've noticed - and maybe somebody could explain why this is - this seems to be the only place where Eli Roth is so controversial. Everywhere else I read, like bloodydisgusting.com for example, just talks about him like everyone agrees that he's one of the greats. Here it seems like the writers are over-enthusiastic about him and the talbackers are ridiculously hateful of him. I'm not sure why it is. Of this generation of horror directors I'm not sure we have any greats, unless you count Del Toro. If he is considered a straight horror director he is undoubtedly a master. Hopefully I'm forgetting somebody but I think after him I am pretty interested in Rob Zombie, Neil Marshall and Eli Roth but I'm not sure any of them will ever have a track record like John Carpenter or somebody. I would like to be proven wrong.
You da man Vern by DocArzt	Jun 11th, 2007 09:55:57 AM
The other side to this, which I would direct towards the more hate-saturated TB's.... it is impossible to imagine how we would where Harry's shoes in such a situation. I mean, if I was hanging with Mr. Roth it would be very difficult for me to approach the task of reviewing his film having been indoctrinated to the creative process behind it. It sort of, shudder, makes me recall the Phantom Menace. Fans had shot their mouths off so much about how incredible the movie would be that only the very brave had the balls to say what they really thought.
Spaz by DocArzt	Jun 11th, 2007 10:04:29 AM
Well, one common ground we have is that the mainstream doesn't understand horror. It's a genre that is targeted towards late teens, early twenties, and woefully underestimates the intellectual capacity of the audience. It rhymes very well with your statement on the music industry. I
Putting aside the Torture Porn / Roth stuff... by Mr Gorilla	Jun 11th, 2007 10:11:18 AM
It still seems an issue that the main reviews here are so mental. I mean, the free passes given to Spider-Man 3 (praising that film does a disservice to 1&2), Pirates 3 (ditto to 1)... these are films which simply are NOT GOOD, but are mega-hits because of the amazing hype around them. Like, say, Godzilla in the 90's. I realise I'm in the territory of personal taste here, but if you go to Rotten Tomatoes you do get an idea of a consensus - something like Batman Begins is rated higher than something like Pirates 3. If you guys who run this site can't tell the difference in intention and quality between the two movies, then hell why are we all coming here?
HOSTEL 2: playing to empty houses everywhere... by thegreatwhatzit	Jun 11th, 2007 10:16:07 AM
Spaz, you personify the (non-existent) audience for HOSTEL 2. Who else but a moron like yourself would document a certain 1941 classic as CITEZAN CANE? Jesus, no wonder everyone ignores your posts--I'll adhere to tradition and subsequently ignore them, too. No doubt you've never screened the Welles movie because (1.) it was shot in b&w, (2.) no car chases, (3.) it would challenge you with a plot and further convolute your thinking process with flashbacks. Just swing on your tire (suspended from the basement ceiling) and watch your Troma collection. Smega, you have made some very valid ponts. And I do suspect that Roth's smugness will evaporate as today's boxoffice numbers are chronicled in the press. Remember Tarantino's appearance at last October's (phony) Scream awards? He was equally smug, certain that GRINDHOUSE would develop into a blockbuster. Well, Tarantino's pants have dropped to his ankles and, if feeling charitable, he may hire Eli as his houseboy.
"maybe somebody could explain why this is" by DocArzt	Jun 11th, 2007 10:16:14 AM
Vern... the answer to that is simple. AICN has long attracted the true film geeks because 'back in the day' this place was about in depth conversation between folks who had encyclopedic memories of genre films. For those people, it is easy, at first, to tolerate Roth coming in talking about saving the horror film and returning to the roots, yada yada... it's like, oh cool, somebody from the new generation DOES get it. And I, like many elder geeks, loved Cabin Fever except when I listened to Roth talk about it. He just doesn't acknowledge the source material enough. He looks at it more as being reflective of an era, almost like he can reach in and pull out whatever element he wants and apply it like its a public domain aesthetic device like cross hatching or something. (Sorry for the sloppy art analogy.) When his progression, though, is just extending on the current 'state-of-the-art' the charm of his work is lost. I could actually tolerate listening to the man if he continued to make movies like Cabin Fever that had a daring core concept wrapped in historic horror motifs; but as a guy trying to fit into the 'new breed' by trying to out sick the sickos, I just don't buy it. As someone who, like Harry, came up through the 70s and 80s and drank heartily of the worst the horror genre could throw at us, I'm a little embarrassed to watch him feign affect. So I guess to sum it up... AICN Talk Backers are just smarter than the other guys. ;)
We just passed the 3000th by Lone_Gunman	Jun 11th, 2007 10:23:05 AM
We just passed the 3000th post mark over on the Lost TB. Ave it!
I think the intense Roth hatred in the TBs... by mr.underwater	Jun 11th, 2007 10:24:23 AM
Stems directly from the site's recent flood of unbridled love. Every action has an equal an opposite. But, as I said, wither in this TB (or one of the eight other Hostel II TBs, I can't even remember anymore) I really wish I could love or hate Roth, but I just don't find his voice strong enough to elicit such polar extremes.
Wow! Did less than half of Hostel 1 opening weekend by TVguy4566	Jun 11th, 2007 10:46:29 AM
Hostel 1 did about $20 million on about 2,000 screens. Hostel 2 did about $9 million and opened on about 200 more screens. Not a great sign for the prospects of this movie especially since the first one was also a hot DVD rental. I don't think people really cared,
HOSTEL 2's boxoffice failure & Lionsgate by thegreatwhatzit	Jun 11th, 2007 10:55:35 AM
Spaz...my final message to you (you're just not worth the effort)...you not only blew the spelling of CITIZEN but the title character's name is KANE (not CANE, obviously you didn't pick-up on this gross oversight). I've leave you alone (permanently) with your bananas and Troma movies. One rumor has been "reaffirmed" (remember, "rumor" is the operative word): there'll be a "shakedown" at Lionsgate today regarding the boxoffice failure of HOSTEL 2. The dreams of popping champagne on a yacht have sunk to loading a couple of six packs on a row boat. The spate of torure porn shit has crippled the resurgence of horror movies (not unlike the 80s when a crop of slasher crap was generically branded as "horror". Theatrical releases expired--the public was fed-up with the surplus of gore and cloned plots ("a group of teenagers/college students/sorority girls are stranded..."--and everything was cranked for the video market). We're experiencing a similar cycle. And who said Roth was going to "rescue" the genre? This hack abetted its decline. Happily, Roth will be nothing more than a lost footnote in horror history.
LOL, Spaz by Rebeck3	Jun 11th, 2007 10:56:24 AM
It's "Citizen KANE". You can't spell either word. Have you even seen it, dude?? I can't believe you're still on here defending this POS movie and director. You know what I have against Eli Roth? His movies. I saw him on Shootout yesterday and he wasn't as obnoxious as I was expecting him to be, so maybe he's a swell guy - but...his...movies...suck. That's it buddy. That's the whole vast talkback conspiracy. We all unfairly ask for quality in movies. Clearly we're fucked up that way. All this started when AICN went ridiculously overboard in promoting this hack and then, much much worse, told us TBers that we were all idiots or "pussies" who don't know/love horror for not appreciating his genius. The AICN needs to stop bashing us and look at how they fanned the flames and really insulted their readership.
Bathory by cyberskunk	Jun 11th, 2007 11:00:30 AM
crimelibrary.com and wikipedia are saying that the 'bathing in blood' is legend rather than fact.
Saw is not responsible by DocArzt	Jun 11th, 2007 11:11:54 AM
Saw is not responsible for torture porn's popularity. The first, albeit brief and enigmatic, torture porn flick was Un Chien Andalou in 1929. Since then you have numerous film makers digging into it - most notably (maybe) Herschell Gordon Lewis - throughout the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, and in the 90's, around the world, in multiple cultures film industries. That is sort of the point... its a little phase that audiences and film-makers go through with extremism... thankfully, it usually marks the death throes of one generation of film making and the beginning of another, less pretentious, lot.
Rebeck3, you're right on the money by thegreatwhatzit	Jun 11th, 2007 11:25:50 AM
You, Smega and other contributors have hit the perennial nail on the head. Sorry to be redundant, but I recall the aforementioned seminar with Stuart Gordon, Tobe Hooper, Wes Craven and other vets. Roth was invited on the heels of CABIN FEVER. This obnoxious boob tried to monopolize the dialogue; the embarrassed smiles on the faces of those iconic filmmakers spoke volumes. I remember that William Castle indulged in hyperbole when promoting his films; the difference is that Castle was lovable (a bullshitter but lovable) and his films were profitable--Roth comes off like an imprudent frat boy who bullshits about his "success" (CABIN FEVER made a modest profit but a blockbuster? Bullocks). He reminds me of "Tommy Flanagan," the pathological liar performed by Jon Lovitz. This sort of demeanor, and the lack of disciplined direction, provoked Roth's failure.
Pop Quiz, hotshots! by Jakes Nel	Jun 11th, 2007 11:49:33 AM
"It's a fuckin' cock!" Name the movie and get a free Eli Roth jockstrap. C'mon, it's easy.
THE TYRANNY AND THE BULLSHIT HAS GONE ON TOO LONG by TheUltraHumanite	Jun 11th, 2007 12:06:52 PM
/join #DeathToAICN where we can bash things with the freedom our forfathers fought so desperatly for!
Next 'big' thing by DocArzt	Jun 11th, 2007 12:08:48 PM
will not come out of the mainstream anyways, and that is where Zombie, Marshall, and Roth are. I mean come on, Roth is not the dyed in the wool horror geek who raised some cash, got some friends together, and made a legend working weekends. He was connected to the teeth. Don't forget that David Lynch was once attached, albeit tenuously, to Cabin Fever. Think that helped him get financed? The environment in Hollywood is too fucked up to produce a master on the scale of John Carpenter. The talent is out there, the funding isn't. I hate to jump across genre lines to make an example, but look at Primer. The director had no formal training, it was produced completely outside the system, and is as challenging as anything out there; yet Hollywood has yet, to my knowledge, snapped up Shane Carruth and given him the resources to exploit his gifts. Instead, we get well connected fan-boys, dope mules, and crossover rock stars getting all the opportunities. Its a sad age...
Neil Marshall is the future of Horror! by Jakes Nel	Jun 11th, 2007 12:09:08 PM
But I'm sure that's been said before.
No sympathy from me by SteffanLongdon	Jun 11th, 2007 12:50:29 PM
Personally I like Eli Roth films and I like Harry, but I can see why AICN has had a bit of backlash the last few weeks.
DOG SOLDIERS: Not as impressive as CITEZEN CANE, huh? by thegreatwhatzit	Jun 11th, 2007 12:52:41 PM
Hey, Jakes Nel: sure it's already been mentioned but it can't be overstated: Neil Marshall kicks ass! He squeezed DOG SOLDIERS out of a few dimes (literally chump change by Hollywood standards) and infused THE DESCENT with a certain ambiguity (we're still debating whether the subterranean dwellers were "real" or spawned by schizophrenia; the script foreshadows the latter with dialogue about hallucinations, et al. It's worth repeated viewings). Unfortunately, Marshall has (yet) not earned the sponsorship of a U.S. studio nor the press that he deserves. He earnestly negotiates suspense (unlike the hacks, he knows there's a significant difference between scaring us and repulsing us).
Quite the talkbalk here. Here's my review... by Rocha70	Jun 11th, 2007 02:16:12 PM
I actually liked the first Hostel. I didn't see it when it came out because of the hype on here. Didn't seem like my type of movie. I like the gore but the whole, watch as we torture someone isn't my type of movie. Also I hated Cabin Fever (Pancakes?!?) I rented Hostel and watched it with a friend. We both thought it was cool. Lots of naked chicks, some gore and the good guy wins in the end. What's not to like? So I went with the same friend to Hostel 2. Lots of dicks in this movie. Bad guys win. Super Ugly girl naked. Wow. Sounds like a great time. It just wasn't as good as the first. You think I could make a movie where a guy holds scissors around a vagina and then cuts it off. All on camera. I don't think so.
Guys guys guys by McClane_Corleone	Jun 11th, 2007 02:19:36 PM

Talkbacks

Harry books a room in Eli Roth's HOSTEL: PART 2, it seems like a nice place to stay!