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‘Ten Years …’
The BABYLON 5 Trailer, All Bluescreen and Computo-Graphics, Warps Into View!!

I keep hearing ... by Aloy	Jun 2nd, 2007 02:01:41 AM
that it's worth a look.
It's gonna suck- by Playkins	Jun 2nd, 2007 02:04:58 AM
Shit, I mean I can tell just from that minute-long trailer in crappy compression. Why bother? It's not like there's any chance I'll enjoy this thing. I hate movies anyway. In fact I hate ALL entertainment nowadays. Things were better when everything was done with kitbashed models, stop-motion, and paint on glass. I'm going to go back to watching my cardboard box. I painted a picture on it. It's cool.
Painted cardboard boxes suck! by Sledge Hammer	Jun 2nd, 2007 02:51:09 AM
It's true, I read it in a book once.
Let me be perfectly clear by Aloy	Jun 2nd, 2007 02:53:59 AM
I mean that the original series is supposed to be worth a look, never saw it way back when, this "new" one - not a clue.
DS9 > B5. by Grando	Jun 2nd, 2007 03:10:22 AM
Fact.
Being clear sucks! by Sledge Hammer	Jun 2nd, 2007 03:10:48 AM
I read that in a book once too.
Playkins: Sock puppets by Nüpst	Jun 2nd, 2007 03:12:25 AM
I must correct you Playkins. As clearly stated by JMS in the behind the scenes info that's up on the official site JMS wanted to be oldschool. He preferred a version with sock puppets. The true artistic artform. But the studio resisted. So blame Warner Bros.
Windows 95 Compatible by Nac	Jun 2nd, 2007 03:30:57 AM
Oh man. I didn't know they still made early 90's point-and-click PC adventure games! IT'S LIKE YOU'RE PLAYING A MOVIE!
No Garibaldi? by reaper28	Jun 2nd, 2007 03:55:44 AM
No Big G = No watch
BSG>B5 >TNG>DS9>Voyger>Enterprise by CeejayNightwing	Jun 2nd, 2007 04:02:38 AM
DS9 was just a poor attempt to beat B5 to the screens once the Trek producers found out the pilot film convinced the studios to fund a seires. DS9 had no direction, just another villain of the week show that further regressed the whole point of Gene Roddenberry's utopian foundations of ST. B5 however was the first show to ever plan a five year story and throw away that "earth-men exploring space" routine that dogged tv sci fi for ages. Their entire Lord of the Rings/Silmarillian type story of the coming of new ages for various Alien races was intelligent sci fi where all hope for such thing seemed doomed once TNG was on its final legs. Diss the CGi used at the time but it was utilized to great effect delivering some of the best realized concepts and Space Battles which are still to be beaten by any TV show or Movie. B5 gave the first realistic 3 dimensional space battles and not just ships fighting like they would in an atmosphere as we got time and time again in ST and Star Wars. It defined clear and distinct differences in culture and look for its aliens rather than the base ST forehead/nose/skin pattern appliance and even down to the ship technology with things like living and partially living ships rather than every craft constructed of good old metal just like we invented on Earth, what a coincidence! What B5 did with its minimal episode budget of $50,000 per episode compared to the millions they threw at Star Trek put the brain-dead hellspawns of Gene Roddenberry's dream to shame. The fact that JMS wouldn't let a good thing lie is poor testament to the original show that hit a peak in its third season that few shows sci-fi or otherwise can compare to. Like all B5 fans we'll give the DVD a viewing but in honesty, unless he wants to do a special edition DVD of the final episodes of the Shadow War, forget it. The 5 year story is over and everything else afterwards is more akin to Star Trek than B5.. let it go JMS, just let it go for christ sake!
Why is Sylar in this trailer? by Wonderboys	Jun 2nd, 2007 04:07:13 AM
Anyway, what the fuck is all that about? It looks far worse than a TNG episode...
I've chosen cardboard boxes...here's why... by wash	Jun 2nd, 2007 04:41:07 AM
Looks horrible. I think if I was a fan of B5 I'd feel let down.
Make sure you watch the right one... by raw_bean	Jun 2nd, 2007 05:53:30 AM
When you first enter the menu of the site, a (really bad) video montage from the original series starts playing. Click on one of the Lost Tales links to see the (really awesome) trailer in question, with crazy space battles, a freaky possessed guy, and a futuristic New York being bombarded from space. All you haters can suck my nuts. :^) Oh and CeejayNightwing, of all the things I could strongly disagree with in your post, the most obviously ludicrous is your assertion that B5 was made for the ridiculous sum of $50 000 per ep. Impossible. It hd less than half the average Trek epsisode, that's true, but the actual figure was around $900 000 and change. 'A little under a million' is what JMS has always said. And stop telling him to stop, retard! If you don't want to see anything beyond the 5 year arc, don't watch it. Personally I'm jazzed up to see this, and hopeful for more. reaper28, if enough people buy the disc to warrant more of them, the very next disc should feature the Big G himself. The story's already in place; at one point it was going to be on this disc too but that proved a little ambitious. So if you really want to see him again, buy the disc, even if you don't watch it. :^)
looks better than that Legend of the Rangers crap by SantiagoAtez	Jun 2nd, 2007 06:27:19 AM
But that doesn't say much. Anyway, I'll watch it, but I'm skeptical.
right with you, Reaper28....B5 ain't B5 w/o Garibaldi by SantiagoAtez	Jun 2nd, 2007 06:29:00 AM
Isn't he a radio show host now?
I'm going to do 3 posts in a row.... by SantiagoAtez	Jun 2nd, 2007 06:30:09 AM
...because I think this talkback is going to be lacking in numbers.
Babylon 5 by Rogue Planet	Jun 2nd, 2007 07:04:16 AM
Frankly, the whole of the Shadow War arc and its conclusion, and the ramp-up to the Earth civil war and its conclusion were two of the best arcs in the history of American sci-fi television. The trouble is, of course, that you can't see that unless you care about the show and the characters. Most of the folks reading this board never saw B5 when it was new, and so never had the opportunity to go with that arc. Believe me, it was really great stuff in the day...and still holds up. Yeah, the CGI is flawed by todays standards, but there wouldn't BE a "today's standard" with regard to television CGI without B5. They were the first show to extensively use CGI for their special effects, so...suck that, haters! Note that DS9 moved to CGI by the end of their series, as did Voyager. Also, DS9's story arcs began to heavily duplicate B5's by series end (the Dominion war, et al), proving once again that DS9 was a rip-off of the concept. (Turnabout is fair play, though...the Star Trek concept was ripped off by 'Lost in Space,' if Gene Roddenberry is to be believed. Read "The Making of Star Trek" for more on that.) Anyhoo, haters, give B5 a chance to grow on you. It's got a lot of good stuff. You got yer Walter Koenig as Bester (always a hoot), some fantastic space battles, creepy aliens, prosthetics that ain't just nobbly noses, Claudia Christian as Susan Ivanova (rrrRRoowww!) and "my good friend Mister Garibaldi" ('nuf said). Watch it, love it, learn it! - T
The Jerry Doyle Show by palewook	Jun 2nd, 2007 07:05:57 AM
For those hurting for for Garibaldi: http://www.wbap.com/showdj.asp ?DJID=24168
Uhhh. by radio1_mike	Jun 2nd, 2007 08:27:44 AM
I respect JMS for his vision and characterizations. But the CGI for that was horrible for early 90's standards even. I've played more realistic battles on Wing Commander.
A question for any old timers by Keg boy	Jun 2nd, 2007 08:36:58 AM
I seem to remember that Herc was rather disdainful of all things B5 back in the day, does anyone else remember that? I can't help but feel these posts are here just for the Amazon link, so some coin can be made. Wish I wasn't so cynical, but I swear Herc used to rip B5 every chance he got. If I'm wrong, sorry, I'm just losing my mind earlier than expected.
Needs more Ivanova... by jccalhoun	Jun 2nd, 2007 08:58:35 AM
I'll get this from Netflix, I'm sure. I won't buy it though. Unfortunately, I'm afraid that is what most people who care about B5 will do. I wish that JMS and Claudia Christian could bury the hatchet so that we could get more Ivonava and less Lochley. seasons 2-4 of B5 were some of the best scifi around. It would be neat if in a decade or so they went back and did a Star Trek-style remastered version and redid all the cgi.
ST>BSG>B5=DS9>TNG>SG-1>Enterpris e>Voyager by Drath	Jun 2nd, 2007 08:59:22 AM
Anyone who puts Voyager over Enterprise is confused. B5 wasn't better than DS9, but both were better than TNG. Popularity is another story, but popularity also doesn't mean quality. In the case of these shows, it didn't. Farscape and Firefly are oranges to these apples.
What A Bunch Of Whinning Troll Babies by Real Deal	Jun 2nd, 2007 09:05:59 AM
" Way back in the day " B5 ended not quite 10 years ago. 10 years ain't a long time if you've been around any time at all ( unless you're 2 ). I'm going to give it a chance because B5 was the best attempt ( for all it's flaws ) at real science fiction on TV period. It was thought out ahead of time and constructed like a novel. Something that even BSG lacks. I'm hoping that BSG ( a show that has relied heavily on character driven shows but has lacked a bit on the storyline ) pulls it together at the end. It looks promising at the end of season 3. This addition of B5 also looks promising and I'm going to give it a chance. By the way from the still shots and the movie it looks like the FX have improved.
Best Sci-Fi Show Ever by B0D	Jun 2nd, 2007 09:16:08 AM
BSG is catching up though. Very nice trailer, looking forward to this even more now. Seems like this is kicking off a major new storyline. Here's hoping Sci-Fi channel jump on this and give us a new series. I mean, after BSG finishes what else do they have?
Crusade wasn't that bad.....Legend of the Rangers was by SantiagoAtez	Jun 2nd, 2007 11:18:49 AM
I just watched an ep. of Crusade again and it really wasn't that bad. The music SUCKED, of course, but the show overall had potential if the JMS and TNT bitch fight didn't ruin it. Legend of the Rangers, on the other hand, might have been the worst thing I've ever seen on television. And yes, I'm a B5 fan. But good lord, Legend of the Rangers was OFFENSIVELY BAD. I have nightmares of that stupid chick shooting lasers out of her hands and feet.
the blue screen strategy actually is a good idea for B5 by SantiagoAtez	Jun 2nd, 2007 11:22:40 AM
The original show and spinoffs always had problems with small budgets, and from this little we see in this trailer it seems like the blue screen backgrounds are pretty convicing (as convincing as blue screens can be, that is). I'm a bit more optimistic after watching the trailer. However, I'm really looking forward to a future DVD-movie that features Garabaldi.
The Starfury is still one of the coolest ship designs by ewokstew	Jun 2nd, 2007 11:24:22 AM
out there. There are shades of an x-wing in there but it's still pretty original. The guy who designed it also helped Cameron design the Hunter/Killers for Terminator 2.
In the timeline, which came first: Crusade or LotR? by SantiagoAtez	Jun 2nd, 2007 11:26:41 AM
Did Legend of the Rangers come after the plague was already remedied on Earth? (I guess we're supposed to suppose that the crew of the Excalibur were successful, no?)
Outta bitch slap every one of you haters. by skydemon	Jun 2nd, 2007 11:38:59 AM
You've not even seen the damn thing yet. Got nothing better to do than come on here and bitch. Guess you babies are too young to remember the days when TV and Movies were a virtual Sci-Fi Desert. I'm excited about this project. I stopped watching DS9 back in the day because of all the freaking Soap Opera Crap they were deciding to fill the show with. B5 was pure product, acting, and scripting aside, the meat of the story was well thought out and flat out awesome, something that DS9 appeared to copy in it's later seasons; by the way. The B5 TV Movies seemed thrown together and that's got me a little worried about this one, but I'll reserve judgment until I've seen It, and I will be one of the first to see it. Oh, yea, and I like DS9 too, just preferred B5 at the time. NICE to have all those choices.
Glad to revisit these characters by JacksParasites	Jun 2nd, 2007 11:48:58 AM
B5 is hands down the best scifi show of all time. But in relation to the other shows mentioned, B5>BSG>ST: TNG>Star Trek>DS9>Enterprise>Voyager which is dead last because it was god awful. DS9 was pretty good at times. It featured the best characterization out of any of the star treks and it started with the most places to take the story, but yeah, they really tried to rip off B5 a bit on numerous occasions.
Second Greatest Star Trek Series ever!!!!!!!! by picardsucks	Jun 2nd, 2007 11:50:59 AM
Every year I watch the entire B5 series on dvd and every year I am blown away by how poingant and wonderful it is WAAAAAAAYYYYYY better than anything produced at the time in terms of character development, story. Yes the telemovies were lacking and Crusade was feh, but B% from start to finish (except Byron and his Northern California, Commie, crystal worshipping pothead washed out longhaired hippie weirdo telepaths) was like finding the most perfect novel that you just can't put down. That draws you in and flows. I say this as a compliment because nothing is or was as good as Kirk, Spock, McCoy but Sheriden, Dellen and Gariboldi come close, as close as anyone has. I don;t really read comics anymore but I did read Rising Stars which was stolen and became Heroes. JMS is like the Orson Wells of Sci Fi. He can produce such unequalled genius and everyone expects everything else to be as masreful. I don't know if B5 was JMS's magnum opus but if it was then so be it. Now don't be cheap assholes and go buy the B5 season box sets at Best Buy, they are only $20.00 each. Give it a try, the Londo -G'kar moments are worth the price of entry alone. And yes DS9 was good, it had to be everything from story arc down to the fact that B5 came up with the White Star so DS9 came up with the Defiant was a direct ripoff of B5. Oh and Star Trek the Next Gen still sucks
Actually by Bigstadder	Jun 2nd, 2007 11:51:10 AM
LotR happen 2 or 3 years before crusade, was a way for JMS to also tell that story and finish it. Crusade was a seed given no water, so it choaked and died. JMS later gave a synopis of the rest of the series where they actually turn against Earth and go on to save it (hmmm kind of like b5)... oh well...
B5 always bored me.. by danowen	Jun 2nd, 2007 11:55:26 AM
It just looked like a po-faced cheap sci-fi dreck to me. People keep saying how it had this brilliant 5-year plan and was really intelligent, yadda-yadda, but it just bored me to tears. It was like watching am dram with computer game sequences inbetween. Awful. Now, in 2007, sci-fi TV has moved on with the likes of Lost and Heroes, so B5 looks very dated too. I'm avoiding. But a DS9 TVM would be awesome
Tegujai Batir by berserkrl	Jun 2nd, 2007 12:47:36 PM
> I saw the first 7 or so episodes. It was so painful that I had to stop. I agree that the early episodes of the first season weren't that great. But the third season is one of the greatest things in tv history. (Lucky for me, I started watching in the 3rd season and saw the 1st season only later -- if I'd started with the 1st season I might not have gotten hooked.)
When was this movie made? by HellKing	Jun 2nd, 2007 01:20:29 PM
Two of those cast memebers are already dead!
Tegujai Batir by Killah_Mate	Jun 2nd, 2007 01:41:42 PM
I know there's no reason for you to believe me, and after all, you say yourself that you've seen the first 7 episodes of B5 and didn't like it, but I will ask you to give it a chance anyway. I won't say that B5 doesn't have flaws - the acting style is an acquired taste, and the effects look like Wing Commander 3 most of the time. The show has its bad episodes too, and not just one or two. But I've seen all of it, and I've seen every show everyone here has mentioned (I have no life), and let me tell you that I have NEVER seen ANY SHOW ON TV with the overall storyline NEARLY as good as B5, and the characters are AMAZING. Just so we're clear, the best space TV show ever made is Farscape (with BSG a very close second, and growing ever closer), but B5 is simply unique, in that no TV show has ever even attempted what it has, and B5 actually succeeded to boot (there would be no Heroes or Lost if it weren't for B5, and B5 still does it better). The good sides FAR outweigh the bad, is basically what I'm saying. It's worth your time. I'll also say that it's important to start from the beginning, so you get the full impact, but once you get into it you are in for a unique experience. Yes, it's old. Yes, it's flawed. But by the time you finish the two-parter "War Without End", it will expand your mind. And that's just one example. --- PS: I have nothing against DS9, it has some pretty good episodes, and after all it was exec produced by Ron Moore, the guy behind BSG.
Killah_Mate by planetablaze	Jun 2nd, 2007 01:59:10 PM
I couldn't agree more with you, but I think it's also key to keep in mind that B5 was a family show, not a dark adult drama. When I was in middle school, Babylon 5 was a family tradition, something we could all sit around and watch. What is hard to look back at now, however, are all the things that made it a family show. The cheesy humor. The telegraphed acting. The bright colors (since BSG have made sci-fi essentially blue-and-white). I went back and watched the first three seasons last year, and the was surprised how much of the execution is cheesy or sloppy. But the STORY is GOLD, and after the first season, the show begins to find it's dramatic legs. And by the end of S4, it had cemented itself firmly in the highest echelon of American television. To all of those who have only watched B5 in the first season, you SERIOUSLY haven't seen ANYTHING yet. Stick it out. It's worth it.
Myoptic haters by RenoNevada2000	Jun 2nd, 2007 02:37:04 PM
You folks can bag on this project all you want, but you may just be shooting yourself in the foot. The success of the DVD may inspire other studios to investigate doing similar projects for their own franchises. MGM already has 2 STARGATE SG-1 discs in the works. SO if you're not a B5 fan, but enjot FARSCAPE, HIGHLANDER, or some other series and would like to see more, the possibility of that happening may depend on the viability of this release.
A lot of the early Season 1 episodes were kinda bad by TheSecondQuest	Jun 2nd, 2007 03:33:43 PM
The first season was certainly the weakest, and has the most skippable episodes. But they eventually found their footing and got things rolling decently. There's only 9 Season 1 episodes you really need to watch (there are a few others that aren't too shabby, but better enjoyed after you've taken in the whole series), the rest can be skipped without missing out on the story arc. Skip the pilot film, watch Midnight on the Firing Line, The Parliament of Dreams, Mind War, And the Sky Full of Stars, Signs & Portents, A Voice in the Wilderness parts 1 and 2, Babylon Squared & Chrysalis and you'll have the needed foundation of Season1 's story to enjoy the far better Seasons 2-5.
where to start? by rockness	Jun 2nd, 2007 03:34:43 PM
I am a huge DS9 and BSG fan and pretty much a fan of all things sci fi but have never given this show a chance due to mostly being confused as to where to start. There are so many movies and so many seasons and many seasons people say are unwatchable. Where should I start watching and what order should I watch things in ? Thanks!
Oh, and Garibaldi will be in the next Lost Tales DVD by TheSecondQuest	Jun 2nd, 2007 03:37:14 PM
They originally had a story about Garibaldi in this volume, but decided to push it back for the next volume (felt it was a little too big to fit into this first one) and reinvest the budget from that into the existing stories in this first volume. So look forward to Mr. Garibaldi, and possibly Londo, in Lost Tales vol 2.
Rockness by TheSecondQuest	Jun 2nd, 2007 03:40:26 PM
I usually reccommend skipping the pilot movie "The Gathering", and starting with the first episode of the first season, "Midnight on the Firing Line", and then following the episode order I posted in my previous post. Another place you could start is the "In the Beginning" telefilm, which is really quite excellent, but does spoil a few events in the series, so while you could start with that (it would just give you a different perspective of events as you are now looking to see how the characters find out what you know, instead of discovering things alongside them), I still reccomend just starting with that first episode and saving ITB till later.
Order cont'd by TheSecondQuest	Jun 2nd, 2007 03:43:53 PM
So, the order I'd suggest would be: Season 1 Essentials (as listed earlier), Seasons 2-4, telefilms Thirdspace (which could be veiwed mid-season 4 if you want), In the Beginning, Season 5, A Call to Arms, Crusade (though don't watch that in the airing order, there are better orders out there). Then, you can always go back and catch the stuff you skipped (The Gathering, otehr Season 1 eps, River of Souls, Legend of the Rangers, etc) if you are so inclinded.
Order (concluded) by TheSecondQuest	Jun 2nd, 2007 03:49:54 PM
And in case you're curious, the reccomended episode order for Crusade I'd suggest would be: Racing the Night, The Memory of War, The Needs of Earth, The Long Road, Vistitors from Down the Street, The Well of Forever, Ruling from the Tomb, Patterns of the Soul, Each Night i Dream of Home, The Path of Sorrows, The Rules of the Game, Appearances and Other Deceits. You can skip the terrible War Zone episode, or just view it at the end as a curiosity. This order, though ignoring uniform changes, presents the character arcs and storyline in a much better perspective.
B5 - Where to begin? ..Watch it all! by CeejayNightwing	Jun 2nd, 2007 04:30:10 PM
Yes watch the first telemovie as it was the Pilot for the show. But do not wacth any of the other tele movies before you get through the legendary season three or it will spoil everything leading up to a great revelation. Season one has its flaws but it has essential character information and elements of the plots that continue in later seasons. I say watch everything and the pay off will be worth it come season 2 and 3 which i guarantee will cause you to forget anything else exists outside your living room. I watch every sci-fi show i can , have done all the 40 years of my life, i'm a huge Star trek fan but the hardest thing i ever had to admit was just how superior B5 became to TNG and the rest of the trek-spawn. B5 simply was the greatest written sci-fi show ever to hit TV and BSG is the best sci-fi show since B5. Anyone still stuck in Trek who never saw B5 and never got caught up in the event while it was fresh simply don't have a clue! Unlike every other show i watched, B5 was so "can't wait, must see" that for me and most of my friends the entire week revolved around waiting for the next episode of information, clues and drama. Nothing, not even Heroes, Lost and BSG has ever had that effect since. A Legendary show!
This trailer...not so hot. by zillabeast	Jun 2nd, 2007 04:34:41 PM
Still, holding out hope.
Rockness by B0D	Jun 2nd, 2007 04:40:44 PM
You're in for a treat mate. It seems like a lot of folk can't see past the budget constraints, but if you're a fan of great storytelling and brilliant characters prepare to be blown away. There's a lot of love in this TalkBack. Nice one.
LOST in space by smellmycheese	Jun 2nd, 2007 05:09:12 PM
Okay, I'm not going to repeat myself again. In the last 2 TBs about this project I've voiced my love for the original series (season 1 to 4) and my lack of enthusiasm for the new adventures based upon the extremely lacklustre season 5 and subsequent shitty TVMs. However, the moment the season 4 theme tune kicked in on this trailer I regressed a whole decade and was reminded of the awesomeness that was season 4. I sincerely hope this new take on things is a solid attempt at reinvigorating the story. The original Naan/Centauri / Vorlons/Shadows arc was amazing. B5 was FANTASTIC in its day and anyone who actually enjoys intelligent SF should seriously give the orignal series a chance. It wasn't perfect but it was excellent and entertaining. If you liked ST, DS9 (another great show), BSG and Lost then you'll like B5. Forgive its shortcomings and you'll find an engaging, thrilling and often extremely moving SF series. It was often flawed, but impressive nonetheless. I hope the new DVD will be good, I doubt it will, but as they say, hope is all we have...
rockness... my advice... by smellmycheese	Jun 2nd, 2007 05:21:29 PM
Watch season 1 episodes: And the sky full of stars Signs and Portents Babylon Squared Chrysalis Season 2: all of it!!! The rest of season 1 Season 3: all Season 4: all In the beginning TVM Season 5: In the kingdom of the blind Sleeping in light (most of s5 and everything after were utter shit)
the teaser trailer JMS put out by palewook	Jun 2nd, 2007 06:23:55 PM
If you missed the teaser, JMS's posted it at: http://tinyurl.com/2eng29 (you can search youtube as well for babylon 5 teaser)
heaven and hell?? by Russman	Jun 2nd, 2007 07:23:23 PM
Oh come on JMS!
how about "Space, Above and Beyond". by robamenta	Jun 2nd, 2007 08:11:35 PM
great show, i seriously suggest you go out and serach for this series. Started off farily badly, but then really got awesome for the most part.
Hopeful by Cobbio	Jun 2nd, 2007 08:15:19 PM
Despite the re-appearance of Elizabeth Lochley, I'm quietly hopeful this might be interesting. Sheridan spearheaded the biggest battle in science fiction television history, remember, with thousands of half-mile long alien ships dishing out rediculous amounts of firepower against each other. Star Trek never came close to the carnage B5 unleashed, and therefore Sheridan always gets a tip of the cap from me.
"DS9 was just a poor attempt by Susumu Kodai	Jun 2nd, 2007 10:26:05 PM
"DS9 was just a poor attempt to beat B5 to the screens once the Trek producers found out the pilot film convinced the studios to fund a seires. DS9 had no direction, just another villain of the week show that further regressed the whole point of Gene Roddenberry's utopian foundations of ST" Did you actually watch past the middle of the first season? I doubt it since no one who had would have said that. "Space Battles which are still to be beaten by any TV show or Movie." OK, now I KNOW you never saw anything past season 2 at best "What B5 did with its minimal episode budget of $50,000 per episode" I think you mean $500,000. Since the original Star Trek was $150-200K per episode, I seriously doubt that ANY show could be made for 1/3 the money 25 years later. JMS stated that the 110 eps cost about $90 million. That comes out to $818,000 per episode, since the first and fith seasons were lower, I'd say that especially 3 and 4 were a million each. None of the Babylon 5 stuff was particuarly original. He ripped a ton of it out of lord of the rings, and all the wonderful SF books written in the 50s and 60s had most of the concepts he used. As far as DS9 being a "ripoff", they switched to a space station after the planet based outpost concept proved to be too expensive (too much location shooting) and unweildy. I believe if you actually watch the show, you'll find they're far different, and still completely true to Roddenberry's vision. Human beings are enlightened, but unfortunately the rest of the world is not, and as Quark put it "take away their replicators and their holosuites and their creature comforts, and a human being is as vicious as any Klingon"
B5 by kayne001	Jun 2nd, 2007 11:12:41 PM
B5 < STNG
Are you kidding? Tron is the man! by Billyeveryteen	Jun 2nd, 2007 11:13:45 PM
Sure B5 was great fun, but DS9's space battles put all of it to shame. Nothing comes close to the Dominion war. Still waitng on BSG tho'.
Keg Boy... by Sledge Hammer	Jun 3rd, 2007 04:03:03 AM
...Herc wasn't even here back in the B5 days, Coaxial was being run by Glen, and he was, if memory serves, a big B5 fan. He was also a far, far better tv section writer and commentator, but that's another story. And jccalhoun, I agree, too bad about the JMS/CC fued, something that, last I heard at least, sees no sign of being ended. Damn shame, because Ivonova was one of the best characters on that show (or any of it's spin offs). And if we're gonna go all ubergeek and put space bound shows in order, I'd have to go: New BSG < B5 + DS9 < S:AAB < ST:TOS < ST:TNG < Farscape < SG-1 < Enterprise < Crusade < Atlantis < Old BSG < Voyager As for all the B5 vs DS9 bollocks, both were their own shows, neither was perfect, both suffered from middling starts and an occasional lack of focus, but at their best and when they were really firing along, both were capable of truly great things. I was a big fan of both personally.
Shadows by Felstorm	Jun 3rd, 2007 11:15:15 AM
B5 series 2 to 4 was without a doubt some of the best and most intelligent tv sci fi since 'Lost'. For all those of you out there who have never seen the show...just get past season one's dodgy acting [who WAS it who played the original commander/captain? Good God he was bad!!] Get past this appaling piece of miscasting and get in to the meat of a story that is far more demanding and intelligent than any Star Trek spin off. I really do envy all you people who are about to watch it for the first time. Great stuff!
Captain Kirk and Captain Sheridan by picardsucks	Jun 3rd, 2007 12:03:33 PM
Would love to see an animated adventure brinnging these two together. With the real Enterprise (either original or refit not those very gay , x-mas ornament looking Spinnoff era Enterprises) hanging of the B5 station. DS9 was a great show but it was a direct and indirect ripoff of B5. Christ it's obvious, everything is a version of B5 with it's own Trek Spin on things. So what people steal in hollywood all the time. I am kind of glad they did as it was the only Trek with any balls from an era of completely horrible, bland, new age, socialist, Trekking. Children on the Flag Battleship of the Federation???? Lame Lame Lame. Anyway Kirk and Sheridan are sharing a bottle of very old bourbon, sharring old war stories and philosophies when through the jumpgate comes an armada of Klingon/Shadow tech warships. And the greatest Sci-fi battle ever ensues. Later Kirk bangs Ivanova. Spock argues with Dr. Franklin, and McCoy calls G'Kar a cold blooded Frogface.
Babylon 5 by Mennon	Jun 3rd, 2007 11:12:23 PM
I loved Babylon 5. It gave me goosebumps week after week, and season 2 & 3 is still the best television I have ever seen. You must remember that every year they were under pressure to be renewed, and at one stage they didn't find out they would have a 5th season until they finished filming the 4th. That accounts for it feeling a little out of steam in those two seaons. I really think that the Lost Producers were thinking of what happened to B5 when they gave the writers plenty of time to finish it. A great decision, one that I wish JMS had back in the day. But B5 was fantastic. I haven'T bothered with star trek ever. Too 'nice'.
Can't judge it based on Season 1 by FrodoFraggins	Jun 3rd, 2007 11:13:58 PM
I didn't see the pilot when it aired and tried watching several episodes in it's first season. It wasn't until I caught the end of Babylon Squared and the first part of "A voice in the wilderness" that I saw this show was much more ambitious than any trek incarnation. My suggestion is to atleast watch the following 1st season episodes: - And the sky full of Stars - Signs and Portents - A Voice in the Wildnerness - Babylon Squared - Chrysalis If you aren't interested after watching these, especially after Chrysalis, then it's probably not teh show for you. The production team were just getting their feet wet the first season and establishing the characters. Season 2 is where things went up a notch, and Seasons 3 and 4 were pretty much fully dedicated to teh ovrall story arcs. Anyway, I enjoyed DS9 but it turned out to be B5 with a bigger budget but a less interesting storyline.
I wasn't going to preorder but ... by FrodoFraggins	Jun 3rd, 2007 11:18:06 PM
I'm disappointed that they chose Lochley and Galen for these minimovies. But if noone buys these DVD's, then I'm not likely to ever get episodes with the characters I want to see like Garibaldi, Londo or Ivanova. $17 for 75 minutes of TV is way overpriced but I guess it's better than not having any more B5.
yeuuck by darth_billy	Jun 4th, 2007 04:21:34 AM
I was a big time B5 fan back in the day, and have gone through the series a few times since then. - But that trailer really sucked badly. From what I can see, JMS should not have directed it. It looks green screen in the worse sense.. In that you have some amazing backdrops, but the characters look bored and static. - I know it was only a trailer, but it don't look good. I am now beginning to think that maybe B5 is dead after all. Either Warners pony up a proper budget for it, or forget it. The only negatives with B5 in the past were related to the budget. So they had cheap effects, cheap actors, cheap shoots etc. In todays day and age where we have movie-quality TV shows... the cheapo B5 hasn't got a chance!
DR.WHO>ST:TOS>New BSG>B5>DS9>FARSCAPE>TNG>ENT>VOYA GER by SpyGuy	Jun 4th, 2007 09:11:08 AM
Yeah, that's the order, so go ahead and start committing it to memory.
My Opinion>Your Opinion by GOB Adama	Jun 4th, 2007 11:54:17 AM
FACT! Not that I really belive that... I was just feeling left out of the "pretentious party", so I decided to crash it. Count me as part of the group that thinks the B5 season 2-4 are solid gold whereas seasons 1 & 5 are, well, more like shiny brass. The apocraphal stuff is hit or miss but mostly bronze.
Londo Millari by Mal Carne	Jun 4th, 2007 08:00:03 PM
Most devious hero ever. Most brilliant villan ever. Sorry, kids, new BSG isn't even in the ballpark.
Season 5 is mostly forgettable... by ComputerGuy68	Jun 4th, 2007 08:23:21 PM
after missing about half of season one during the original run, I got back into the show in season 2 and DAMN! that was some fine TV. The funny thing is, after you see the entire series, go back to season one and the pilot movie. You will kick yourself for dismissing it! There is so much info in season one and things done there will have repercussions in the entire series. Tons of setup in season one, remember it's called "Signs and Portents" for a reason! The only episodes in season one that I would skip are: Infection - just bad, bad, bad! Believers - although a good story about religion and science/medicine TKO 'nuff said Grail - so so episode, but David Warner is in it... Pretty much everything else plays a part in the next four seasons... Oh and watch Babylon Squared - then watch it again. When you hit Season Three's "War Without End" get ready for one of the many HOLY SHIT moments of the wonderful B5. B5 is still my favorite sci-fi, but I still never got past season one of BSG - I have two and three - still yet to watch it - so maybe when I get around to it I will finally see what the BSG fanboys have been gushing about for the last two years. Nice to see a bit of love for Space: Above and Beyond too...
Londo Mollari, one of the most tragic characters on TV by ComputerGuy68	Jun 4th, 2007 08:34:18 PM
His fall and redemption is what Anakin Skywallker's should have been in the Star Wars films. Londo is one of the best characters ever created and without him and G'Kar, B5 would have failed. And for all your B5 needs go to the Lurker's Guide site for loads of info: http://tinyurl.com/j57t
Season 5 is ok by TheSecondQuest	Jun 4th, 2007 11:00:02 PM
It feels more arc related than many Season 1 stadalones (though those obviously have relevant info too, in retrospect, but Season 5's is more overt). The first half focusing on the telepaths is so-so and depends on if you like the Byron character. If you hate Byron, you'll hate that first half of Season 5, if you like or tolerate him, you'll like or tolerate that first half of Seaosn 5. The second half of Season 5 is just about as good as anything else in the series. Londo's scenes are still amazing.
Original series by Avengerdude	Jun 5th, 2007 07:25:04 AM
The thing that annoyed me about B5 was that after JMS got the 5th season. he never addressed the dangling story-lines: Lando on Centauri Prime. How did he come to be so feared? What led up to his eventual murder. Lots of other stuff we were shown glimpses of in War Without End/Babylon Squared. It would be nice to see some of this stuff in future DVDs.
Londo & G'Kar by GOB Adama	Jun 5th, 2007 09:32:15 AM
For me, B5 went from good TV to entertainment for the ages when I realized that the formely loved Londo was now reviled and the formerly reviled G'Kar was now loved... and that it had happend gradually and seemlessly (attached to that is Vir's change from chubby comic-relief to a sad, weary, bitterly-comic witness to tragedy whose clothes and skin seemed to hang off of him). It all lead to G'Kar's whipping (fans know, you new folks, well, just wait). I remember all the "first season sucks" stuff back when they were first broadcast. I was one of the few whose optimism served him well. By the middle of second season my more pretentios sci-fi elite friends were BEGGING for my VHS recordings of season 1.
Avengerdude- the books by TheSecondQuest	Jun 5th, 2007 12:57:52 PM
JMS plotted out the entire B5 history for a hundreds of years in each direction, then more broadly a thousand to a million beyond that, so there's a lot of stuff that happens offscreen due to it "happening" but not being of specific importance to the storyline of the core 5 year story arc. Though it does suck some of this material will never be seen on screen, the events you mention are covered in a fantastic three book trilogy by Peter David, and the B5 novels are absolute canon, based on outlines by JMS, so if JMS ever does cover that time period in a Tv show, movie or whatever, he'll stick to the events in the novel (he actually did this with some of Galen's flashbacks in Crusade, for example). After you read the books, you realize why it's not really feasible to have included it in Season 5 (beyond the timeline jump)- it's really more about Vir's rise to power than it is about Londo's increased isolation and deteriorating health, and it would have felt out of place in context to the rest of the series.
First Season by _Maltheus_	Jun 5th, 2007 01:45:23 PM
The first season of this show might seem bad now, but at the time, it was enough to get me into it. I think people are forgetting how fresh it was given that all we had at the time was Trek. I didn't think it was a great show back then (Signs & Portents was my first clue), but they were dealing with storylines that TV typically steered away from, like religion and politics. It was also a dark show for a new, more cynical generation. Whereas Star Trek was the ideal, B5 was the reality. And say what you want about the effects but NOBODY was complaining back then. In fact, every other show soon followed suit. The dynamic battles that B5 portrayed stood out against the cut-to-Enterprise-firing, now cut-to-Romulans-firing bullshit that made Trek battles so boring. By the time I saw Morden with the Shadows in Chrysalis, I was so fuckin' hooked on this show that I accepted Sinclair leaving without complaint (despite loving his character) because I had so much faith in the direction at the time. Whereas with Lost and BSG, I get upset easily precisely because they don't inspire such faith. Storywise, BSG is like a crayon drawing compared to B5 (in a single color at that). People can slam some of the acting, but I'd put G'Kar's acting at the top of the list for all TV. He expressed so much though all that makeup. The were plenty of other great performances too. And I agree with others on Londo. For me, he was simply one of (if no THE) best fictional characters of all time. He represented what it meant to be an American to me. Desperate to get back to a glorious past that in fact never truly existed. Imagine if they had handled Anakin's slide to darkness in a small fraction of the way they handled Londo's, and nobody would be complaining about the Lucas prequels. B5 was genius, regardless of everything that happened since it apex.
I have to check out some of those books by ComputerGuy68	Jun 5th, 2007 02:44:39 PM
I think Bester's storyline ends in one of them, and if Peter David is involved in some of them I must have! _Maltheus_ well said...
Books by TheSecondQuest	Jun 5th, 2007 06:12:49 PM
The main ones of interest are the Psi-Corp trilogy by Gregory keyes. The Legions of Fire trilogy (aka Centauri trilogy) by Peter David, The Passing of the Techno-Mages trilogy (basicly Galen's story) by Jeanne Cavelos, The Shadow Within (about Morden and the Icarus and psuedo-prelude to the technomages trilogy) by Jeanne Cavelos and To Dream in the City of Sorrows by Kathryn M. Drennan (JMS's wife; about Sinclair on Minbar and Marcus). The novelization of In the Beginning by Peter David is also worth a read as well- it's almost like having a fourth book of the Centuari trilogy.
TheSecondQuest - Thanks! by ComputerGuy68	Jun 6th, 2007 08:43:07 PM
More lovely books to add to my collection. I wonder if any of them are e-books, love to read them on my Pocket PC!

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