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A Bit Of HEROES Spoilage
Fresh From The Paley Fest!!

I'll take Heroes since watchman will never be made by zekmoe	Mar 11th, 2007 09:52:50 AM
No movie would come of it, since it's too hard, has too much imagery, too many locations and is too deep for 2 &1/2 hrs. Heroes will have to do.
And yes, of course the writers are aware of Watchman by zekmoe	Mar 11th, 2007 09:54:09 AM
How could they not be, being in the field? They're coping general concepts, which they know can't be copywrited, and putting it in the here and now. They too know Watchman will never see the light of a projector.
What Horseshit.... by Gunslinger1919	Mar 11th, 2007 09:58:17 AM
You know....I keep reading articles about Heroes and how Tim Kring NEVER read a comic in his life...and that he's come by all this so very naturally as a gifted storyteller. What horseshit!!!! Really. I mean, c'mon....whether Watchmen gets made or not, this is a direct ripoff of Watchmen. Just cop to the fact that you're being influenced by the best of the comic world....don't fucking lie and act like you've never read a comic in your life....and on another subject that test shot or Rorschach rocked. --G
i'm pretty sure groening had his name on the teleplay.. by Charlie Murphy	Mar 11th, 2007 09:58:36 AM
...of that one episode with like twenty different stories and it had a whole whack of names on that episode. i could be wrong...
oh yeah, the watchmen ripoff sure does get my goat by Charlie Murphy	Mar 11th, 2007 10:04:28 AM
and gunslinger, i think your post is hilarious even if it's maybe not accurate. i mean, jeph loeb is in that writers room, and he's no doubt read watchmen. anyone in that room could have pitched this idea. i hope zack snyder blows us away with watchemen...
christ that is blatant by digduggler	Mar 11th, 2007 10:31:32 AM
I think I'm done with Heroes. It's entertaining somewhat, but there are some really bad storylines (Nikki) and I have read much better versions of these stories in the comics. And jesus to rip of the ending of arguably the best comic series of all time... you can't really have any confidence in their creativity can you? What's next season? A future version of the heroes in a world gone wrong spurred back from retirement to save the world from fascism, mutants and Ronald Reagan?
Zach Synder (300, DOTD) is making Watchmen.. by squill	Mar 11th, 2007 10:35:36 AM
.. it's his next and is planned for 2008! First image from the movie: http://snipurl.com/1cofz
Heroes is the worst series ever by dtpena	Mar 11th, 2007 10:45:14 AM
I still cant get past the fact that they find people with powers with a computer program THAT WRITES THEIR NAME AND LOCATION!. What kind of supercomputer does this? Does it find a genetic anomaly and then compares the code with every human living on the world, find the actual name their father gave them and then their living place, even if they've moved? And what's with the indian Ph.D. in genetics working as a taxi driver, can't he at least apply for a highschool job? And why he doesn't have to work anymore? WHAT THE FUCK HEROES? Only a bastard that loved that Buffy and Angel shit like Hercules can like this shitload of a show, and don't get me started on the acting.
dtpena by jsm1978	Mar 11th, 2007 10:50:18 AM
I agree about the computer program. It doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. As for not having to work, that's just television it seems. The majority of shows seem to have characters spending all their time doing anything but working...
So Linderman stages an enormous terrorist attack in NYC by JackBauer24	Mar 11th, 2007 10:53:05 AM
in order to scare the world into accepting his diabolical agenda for a New World Order.. why does this sound familiar?
thanks for the news, squill! by Charlie Murphy	Mar 11th, 2007 10:53:45 AM
we didn't know any of that. and dtpena, you raise two good flaws in heroes, but that's just it: TWO. i don't really give a shit if you watch heroes or not, as there's more than enough people watching, but i think it's kind of ignorant to call this the worst series ever. maybe "overrated" would be a better word to get across your point. but "worst"? i fucking think not. have you seen the wedding bells? point pleasant? bones? tru calling? criminal minds? please... oh and if you're gonna shit on buffy and/or angel around here, you'd better not show up again until people forget your name. we don't take too kindly to whedon dissing here.
all of you posting about the watchmen by Holodigm	Mar 11th, 2007 11:20:54 AM
are ripping off the person who sent in the report from the paley fest! what's next, someone's gonna say Hayden P looks hot?
dtpena by prbt	Mar 11th, 2007 11:31:54 AM
If that's what you think, then you're obviously not paying attention. Have you missed some episodes??
Computer program by epitone	Mar 11th, 2007 11:47:10 AM
The computer program only figures out which genetic abnormalities are likely to lead to superhero qualities. The Human Genome Project (which is real) does the rest, since it has catalogued people's genomes along with their names and addresses. Mohinder told one of the people he found that she had agreed to participate in the HGP when she donated blood. So the only logical stretch is that all the people they've found were willing participants in the HGP.
Greonings' role? by EyeofPolyphemus	Mar 11th, 2007 12:40:44 PM
Cashing the checks.
Holy Overreaction Batman! by purplemonkeydw	Mar 11th, 2007 01:46:24 PM
Someone called The Watchmen the best comic series ever. Wahhhhh? Look, I'm sure you're a fan, but c'mon...best ever? Jeez. Maybe I'm just not geeky enough, but Watchmen wouldn't even make my top ten. Heroes is a great show, well done Mr. Kring (ok, that does sound like a super-villain's name).
Outer Limits Did It First! by MrD	Mar 11th, 2007 01:51:13 PM
In a first season episode "The Architects of Fear", Robert Culp is tranformed into an alien monster, in order to terrify the planet into uniting.
And for the record... by MrD	Mar 11th, 2007 01:53:27 PM
Alan Moore was told that Watchmen was ripping off that OL episode before the end of Wathcmen was published.
Computer Program by MaulRat	Mar 11th, 2007 02:13:03 PM
Does anyone else find it a tad funny that the major gripe someone has with a series about people who are telekinetic, who can fly, read minds, shape shift, bend space and time, phase through solid objects, punch holes through buildings, absorb others abilities, and paint the future is an amazingly well written if unrealistic piece of software?.... yeah.. talk about unrealistic... nerds.
So Linderman nukes NYC to create a New World Order... by Prof. Pop-Cult	Mar 11th, 2007 02:24:29 PM
...Which will pave the way for Nathan to become President. Nathan has superpowers, so is Linderman wanting to set things up for gifted humans to take over the world? Is he like Magneto in this regard?
Backstory of Nathan and Peter's dad... by Prof. Pop-Cult	Mar 11th, 2007 02:30:28 PM
...And maybe their father was also gifted. Their dad, mother, Hiro's dad, and Linderman all worked together as a superteam when they were young. The Petrelli dad learned of Linderman's plot to blow up NYC, tried to stop and expose him, so Linderman had his former colleague killed.
haha... by mr ahole ramirez	Mar 11th, 2007 02:38:56 PM
I told people it wasnt goin to be Peter to blow up the NY...yippee...but anyway, even if Watchmen did it, I dont care cuz I never read it...so go Heroes...
RE: all of you posting about the watchmen by Droogie Alex	Mar 11th, 2007 02:45:31 PM
"all of you posting about the watchmen by Holodigm Mar 11th, 2007 11:20:54 AM are ripping off the person who sent in the report from the paley fest! what's next, someone's gonna say Hayden P looks hot?" I made that report, which aintitcool ran directly from my email, which is why I sent it, but how about a credit as to who wrote it! Thanks for bringing it up, Holodigm. MT Collins, Cartoon Network
smiley face by Mr_X	Mar 11th, 2007 02:46:12 PM
the watchmen rip off is not cool. you have gone down in my estimations heroes team. what reall stinks is you'll probably admit the similarities , but the general viewing public wont know. and when the wtachmen movie comes out, they'll think they stole the idea from heroes. not cool team. not cool. the only way to repair this dmaage is to have issac paint a picture of the watchman smilly face. perhaps on a ballon, at the scene of the accident. have a kid hold the ballon. we fans demand a sacrifice and thsi is it.
And now for a little perspective by jfinn1319	Mar 11th, 2007 02:51:32 PM
Before you condemn Heroes as the worst series ever, here's a few truly awful shows to consider for that award. (in no particular order) Survivor Full House Alias Step by Step NKOTB the cartoon Sabrina the Teenage Witch American Idol (in fact to save space: all reality t.v.) Fox News(talk about inconsistencies) Tru Calling The Ghost Whisperer CSI Miami (only because David Carusso sucks so bad) You get the idea. As to Heroes plagiarizing Watchmen; everyone who has ever written anything is influenced by the material that they read/watched/listened to earlier in life. To call a show out for adapting a premise from one story and applying it to a vastly different story in a way that works makes no sense. That's like calling out every vampire show for giving vamps fangs. I'm more pissed that the entire premise, right down to certain characterizations, was blatantly ripped off from Rising Stars. That's plagiarism. Finally, for those of you who are under the delusion that Watchmen will never get made, learn to distinguish between dreams and reality. This goes out to everyone who said that Sin City wouldn't get made or that Superman Returns won't generate a sequel. Money talks. I guarantee that come Monday or Tuesday morning, Zack Snyder will get a phone call from Warner Bros. detailing his budget and deadline and he will immediately begin pre production. Why? Because, no matter what your opinions of 300 were, the studio sees a record breaking opening weekend on one property as a fairly good reason to green light another under the same director. Watchmen will get made, and regardless of your wishes(couched in command though they may be)two years from now we'll all be participating in a talkback about it.:0
MrD... by Lord Bullingdon	Mar 11th, 2007 02:54:10 PM
Did you know they're making "The Architects of Fear" into a feature? Tis true. I love Watchmen and love Heroes too. I did want to point out another parallel between them: both Dr. Manhattan and Sylar were watch repairmen who wanted something more and became (ostensibly) the most powerful beings on earth.
But...wouldn't a nuke in NYC casue MORE fighting? by Drath	Mar 11th, 2007 02:58:56 PM
I don't think it would unite the world, it would polarize it into the "Yeah we hate the US so much that this was acceptable to us" and the "THOSE FUCKERS MUST BE STOPPPED!" camps. There has to be more to the scheme, I'm sure. But how does this tie into Peter's visions? If Peter is that important, or if the radioactive guy is that important, then shouldn't they both be watched more carefully by Linderman? Is Peter's wicked mother (I think she's a villain) in on this and pulling an Angella Lansberry in the Manchurian Candidate kind of sacrifice of her son for a "greater good?" Or do they expect Peter to survive? Or is one not related to the other at all? I know that this is fantasy so it's problematic to say when it gets too far-fetched, but there is such a thing as a badly written plot that no amount of fantasy can make up for, so I hope this is not one of those "you'll believe it because it's fiction and because I tell you to" kind of endings. Also, I sure hope they don't fuck up and kill off Peter, Hiro, Claire, HRG, or Matt by next season. Those characters are really working, and leaving them behind will hurt the show. I'd count Sylar, but I think his character's fate is already decided.
What bugs me about Heroes by ELGordo	Mar 11th, 2007 03:02:32 PM
It seems that every other person has super powers. Everybody who has superpowers keeps quiet instead of trying to gain fame and fortune as probably most would do. Everybody is connected some how, the bit with Hiro's dad was just too much IMO. Instead of doing a Watchmen movie, why don't the do a series. Then they could do the story justice and take their time telling it.
the bush government also plagurised the watchmen by Mr_X	Mar 11th, 2007 03:05:46 PM
take that conspiracy buffs!
I dont know Heroes that well enough nor by emeraldboy	Mar 11th, 2007 03:11:28 PM
Watchmen that well enough to start to compare both. If however the makers of Watchmen(both Moore and the fillmakers) did notice similiarities, legal letters would have been exchanged by now surely...
lol MrX by mr ahole ramirez	Mar 11th, 2007 03:18:51 PM
I agree with you 500%...I also believe Bush is purposely actin like "he gots no learning" (King of the Hill)...
Copycat Accusers by topaz4206	Mar 11th, 2007 03:43:50 PM
Given that CG effects reached "usable" quality in the early 1990s, the creators of X-Men, Watchmen, and every other superhero have had a DECADE AND A HALF to get their shit together for a live action series. None have done it with the questionable, inconsistent exception of Smallville. And the Watchmen movie has become what is known in the videogame world as "vaporware." So who gives a shit, I'd rather have Heroes lifting characters and storylines (quite capably), than NOTHING AT ALL.
re: all of you posting about the watchmen by digduggler	Mar 11th, 2007 04:07:33 PM
Um, reaching the same conclusion as the reporter about a series description that is extremely similar to the watchmen doesn't 'rip' him/her off. It's reaching a logical conclusion about a stolen ending.
who fucking cares? by punto	Mar 11th, 2007 04:25:42 PM
everything you see on tv has been done before, for better or worse. the only difference between watchman and heros is that heros is somewhat mainstream, while watchman is only known to a bunch of comic books shut-ins. the first episode of "The lone gunmen" (aired 4 March 2001) was about stopping a government plot to crash a plane in the world trace center to proffit from a long war with the middle east. Sound familiar?
Good by jollysleeve	Mar 11th, 2007 04:55:04 PM
...I've always liked the idea of an actual staged atomic bomb in Heroes. The idea of a clandestine group of people, killing in order to maniuplate the social order of the rest of the world is a lot more frightening to me than just a single "super" villain like Sylar. (And sadly, I don't think that scenario is very far from the truth of the way our world actually works.)....... I'm also thrilled that the blast won't be caused by any one character (Peter, Ted, Sylar) blowing up. That would've just been ridiculous and cheesy....... Now, if only they would kill off that obnoxious pretty-boy slacker Peter in the season finale, I'll be happy as a clam.
Too many characters have powers... by jollysleeve	Mar 11th, 2007 05:06:27 PM
Here's the obligatory "bitchy" AICN post......... I agree with the poster who complained that too many of the characters have powers now. To me, whenever they reveal the "surprise" that a character actually has powers, it's not the cool twist it apparently is to everyone else. It's just cheesy. (I hate the idea that Linderman is going to have a power. I'd find the character so much more interesting if he was simply a dirty human being with his fingers in all the pies.)...... Also, by giving fucking almost EVERYONE in the show powers, it has the overall dampening effect of making NONE of the powers on the show very special or cool....... I'm also getting sick of all the "twists" on the show where we learn how Boba Fett--I mean, how everyone seems to be related to everyone else. It's cheesy and makes the world of Heroes feel small and contrived. The Nathan-as-father and Mama-Petrelli-as-some secret-powerful-figure took the show into Days of Our Lives land. Next, we'll find out that Claire has an Evil Twin who wears an eye-patch for no reason. And that Nathan was actually born a girl, but had a sex-change operation.
There are few things more pleasurable to see... by Pennsy	Mar 11th, 2007 05:20:13 PM
Than Missy Peregrym in high def on my new Samsung television. TIA. :D
Lord Bullingdon by MrD	Mar 11th, 2007 07:08:57 PM
Thanks for the 411. Sounds kinda cool. Lots of those OL episodes (the originals, anyway) have plenty of potential if fleshed out, especially since they were 50 minutes or so to start. As for the watchmaker, I think it makes sense for both characters, so I won't fault that any more than I do Superman, Peter Parker, The Question and the Creeper for working for some form of news media.
Attn: Charlie Murphy by Gunslinger1919	Mar 11th, 2007 07:10:32 PM
My fault...actually it's series creator Tim Kring who's said that he never read a comic in his life...but still....on another subject....hmmmm....do you think back in January of 2001 Bush was sitting in the john reading Watchmen and came to the end and knew exactly what to do on 9/11.... --G
Mohinder and his father drove taxis... by I Hope You Die	Mar 11th, 2007 08:28:25 PM
...because it's one of the few jobs you can get without being allowed to work legally. You can't just show up in the US to do secret genetic research and then apply for a job teaching at a high school. This is supposed to be a plot hole that makes Heroes the worst show ever? WTF?
Watchmen? by devildinosaur	Mar 11th, 2007 09:50:57 PM
Speaking of Watchmen... http://tinyurl.com/229y73 yeah!
watchmen worked by caravaggio	Mar 12th, 2007 12:40:06 AM
because of the "alien invasion" thing. without that...it's just 911-that didnt unify shit
WTF, Watchmen not in yout top ten!?!?!? by Hairy Nutsack	Mar 12th, 2007 04:56:22 AM
Any asshat that wouldn't include Watchmen in their top ten comics list doesn't have a brain period. Go read Archie and Jughead moron. Watchmen is easily the most critically acclaimed comicbook of all time. Personally I like Dark Knight better with Watchmen a ridiculously close second, but that's because I favor Bats over all comic heroes.
Watchmen lifted the idea, folks -- by FatSam	Mar 12th, 2007 05:13:21 AM
Not much new under the sun. There was an SF story back in the 50s or 60s that had a scientist faking an alien invasion to get humanity to unite. Story ends with the scientist's brother (a general, if I recall) taking the bullet meant for his brother and dying to preserve the secret. I'm not a comic books guy, but I did watch a bunch of Heroes recently, and it's an OK story, good dialog, a couple good characters. Utterly derivative, but so's Star Wars, you know what I'm saying?
Watchmen & Originality by alpha	Mar 12th, 2007 05:26:09 AM
Moore used plenty of sources to inspire Watchmen much like he did with the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Ozy's plan for New York wasn't totally original but in comic terms the suprise was that it was a hero planning the act. In Heroes it's a person who has been seen as a villan in genral up till now. In fact the change is that Linderman may have more noble motives than first supposed. Heroes is derivative but then so is everything else, how many cop, docter and lawyer shows are there on TV or sitcoms about families. Every writer takes inspiration from what they have been exposed too.
Heroes... by FUZZYWOOKIEE	Mar 12th, 2007 05:54:09 AM
...is definitely the best new show on Tv now. Sure they have taken some general storyline ideas from the comic world , but they have done it better than just about any licensed comic property to hit almost any screen big or small. ...Jollysleeve, like comic books never have a twist and the story is always straight forward, and nothing ever ever gets retconned to the point that the characters are near unrecognizable and readers don't know which end is up on whatever alternate timeline they are in or alternate earth they are currently on.
Heroes just dropped the ball, big time by CorpseRide	Mar 12th, 2007 06:54:01 AM
So sad they have to rip off Watchmen like this. Previous stuff, like the watch-repair guy who is the son of a watch-repair guy and then becomes all-powerful... well, you could call it a homage. But this is too much, this is a blatent lift of the twist/climax of the arc. Very shoddy.... I see they made sure to get it out before the movie is released, too. Shame. And to those who point out that 'Architects of Fear' had a similar plot - yes, it was an influence on Watchmen. That's why watchmen features an extended scene where they all stand around while 'Architects of Fear' STARTS TO PLAY ON THE TV. Do you think Heroes will drop the nod to Watchmen the same way, by having a character shown reading it? I suspect not. In addition, AoF did not use that plot point as the twist climax of a superhero story, like Watchmen did. Oh, and they seem to have completely missed the point that the 'attack from beyond Earth' aspect was vital in achieving the villain's aims... a nuke would just cause more division, 9/11 style. Jeez, even '24' gets that right. In conclusion, the Heroes writers are thieves and their show stinks. Pathetic.
Ted Sturgeon's "Unite and Conquer" by FatSam	Mar 12th, 2007 07:10:10 AM
Published in Astounding Science Fiction in 1948. Heroes stole it from Watchmen which stole it from Outer Limits which stole it from Sturgeon ... No virgins here.
I Love the Last Groening Tidbit by Aquatarkusman	Mar 12th, 2007 07:33:27 AM
He's basically turned into Krusty, marketing everything in site: "I'm a lazy, lazy man!"
Heroes crossed the line by CorpseRide	Mar 12th, 2007 07:38:28 AM
Heroes has clearly stolen this idea, but did Watchmen also steal it? No. Watchmen highlighted the connection with AoF within the comic itself, celebrating it and paying respect as an act of hommage. What's more, Heroes' theft is clumsier, more blatent, shows a misunderstanding of the originals, and remains unacknowledged by the writers. Heroes, like Watchmen, features a devastasting attack on New York as the climax of a superhero mystery story. That's a much more exact duplicate of Watchmen than any of the previous versions have been of each other, to the extent that it will actually spoil the twist ending of the Watchmen movie for those people who don't know the story. The significant difference with the Heroes version is the lack of an outer-space angle: a change which renders the plot point nonsensical, as no uniting effect would occur. That is just one reason that Watchmen is a superior work of art to Heroes, so for them to have taken away the ability for a new audience to enjoy Watchmen fresh, without having seen the plot twist on TV the year before, is pretty sad.
WATCHMEN is definitely getting made by Zach Snyder by SpyGuy	Mar 12th, 2007 09:33:07 AM
300 pulled in 70 million over the weekend, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if WATCHMEN is fast-tracked before lunchtime today. As for Kring and Co. swiping from WATCHMEN for HEROES, one thing I always found interesting is that Alan Moore essentially lifted from the Charlton characters that were in the original draft (Captain Atom, the Question, Blue Beetle, Nightshade, Peacemaker) and used very similar characters (Dr. Manhattan, Rorschach, Nite Owl, Silk Spectre, the Comedian) when DC told him he couldn't use the actual Charlton characters. Moore could have come up with completely different characters of his own, but didn't for whatever reason. I don't think this was swiping, per se, because the Charlton and WATCHMEN characters are both owned by DC, but it does seem like a cheap solution to the problem.
Calm the F down, people... by Kid Z	Mar 12th, 2007 09:42:17 AM
... the ideas are all out there, nothing new under the sun. It' what is done with the idea that counts. Alan Moore, as good as he is, didn't create the idea of a powerful person or persons forcing a crisis in order to unite people. Christ, every other conspiracy theory from the last 1000 years or so has that same old plot! Heroes using the idea doesn't mean they are plagarizing from Watchmen. We just have to see if they take the basic idea in new and interesting direction is all... kinda like Moore did in Watchmen.
It would appear... by CorpseRide	Mar 12th, 2007 10:11:16 AM
...that the direction is neither new nor interesting, seeing as they have changed it just enough to stop it making sense (alien->nuke), and no more. As for the Charlton characters... dude, he was ASKED to write a story with those characters. It was only after the story turned out to be so dark (and divorced from DC continuity) that he was asked to convert them into new 'alternate' versions, so that DC could go on and use the lighter originals in their standard DC universe.
THE BORROWERS by bythehairofsanjaya	Mar 12th, 2007 11:46:02 AM
Yes without a doubt Heroes (my favorite show at this present time) is borrowing from many different sources. After reading the "Watchmen" write up on Wiki Heros has unquestionably borrowed a lot from that series, but they have borrowed a lot from X-Men also (as did the 4400). Let's face it, superherodom is a mature fiction genre. Not many superpowers that have not been outed in some form or another. However, as law suit happy people are today, you can rest assured the NBC lawyers have vetted all this thoroughly and no copywrites have been violated (but the simularities are unmistakeable). Having said all of that, Heroes remains great TV for me.
I don't think by epitone	Mar 12th, 2007 11:50:55 AM
that any of the people crying about this Watchmen rip-off are watching Heroes in the first place. Somehow I think the rest of us will survive their continued non-viewing.
I THINK I'VE FIGURED IT OUT!!! by mbeemer	Mar 12th, 2007 12:13:15 PM
Okay, we've seen Peter's dream of other heroes gathering around him before he begins radiating and explodes, with Claude laughing in the background. We've also seen Isaac's painting of a person radiating as if exploding. But what if... Isaac only saw a snapshot, and Peter saw things out of order. Perhaps he ABSORBS the explosion into himself, saving the city. Claude laughs in delight at his pupil's success...
Frodo, It's a shame... by CorpseRide	Mar 12th, 2007 12:25:03 PM
that you won't get a chance to see Watchmen fresh. Oh well, sucks for you I guess. As for X-men: sure, Heroes nabbed the whole superheroes-as-mutants-banding -together-as-outsiders thing... but that's merely a scenario, not a plot resolution. Heroes might not have been top-quality TV before, but it was at the least watchable, if somwhat predictable/derivative. The Homecoming and Company Man eps were decent. But when I saw the whole "watchmaker" motif in the flashback ep, I thought "man, if they steal TOO much from Watchmen, that'd be lame... especially as they're foreshadowing that NYC explosion... hope they don't go down that route". Well, they went there. At least it wasn't one of my absolute favorite shows that let me down, that would have really sucked. Forthcoming Heroes season predictions: Season 2: He was a ghost all along! Season 3: They blow up the Death Star Season 4: Leland Palmer did it! Her dad! Season 5: Spock sacrifices himself in the engine core Season 6: He was a ghost all along, again! Season 7: Peter Petrelli stops the nuclear missile, but the EMP shuts down Gotham: he regenerates by holding a flower. Season 8: Peter finds out he has a son, then throws a continent into space. Season 9: Simon Cowell votes Hiro off. Season 10: Manhatten falls into something I like to call a "Hell Mouth". Note: seasons 3->10 available in comic form only.
LMAO CorpseRide.... by Hairy Nutsack	Mar 12th, 2007 12:38:58 PM
I think you're being a little hard on Heroes, but at least you're being funny while you're doing it. I can't say I watch Heroes as if it's some sort of groundbreaking new television experience, BSG covers that nicely. I watch Heroes in the same way I read comics, realizing it's mostly just a big tub of dumb fun with some occassionally intelligent writing and pretty pictures to look at. All I know is Heroes is a really fun show to watch and it gets my ass on the couch every Monday. Still disappointed they are so blatantly ripping off Watchemen, but maybe they'll surprise us with a nice hamfisted nod to either Moore or Watchmen.
"Do it?...I did it thirty-five minutes ago" by Futureman2681	Mar 12th, 2007 12:55:09 PM
This isn't ripping off Watchmen (by the way, people, there is no "the" at the beginning of the title), it's more of an homage. And what better book to pay homage to? Of course the writer's know of this plot line from Moore's book.Really this just make me love the show even more (if that's possible).
The stuff with the guy being a watchmaker... by CorpseRide	Mar 12th, 2007 01:27:52 PM
..was a homage. This stuff with the villain's masterplan is quite a bit more. Season 11: it was all a dream of one of the austistic kids in the children's ward. Season 12: "How's Annie? How's Annie?" Season 13: Number 6 IS Number 1. Season 14: 'Monsters from the Id' were to blame. (hey, it's not a ripoff cos The Tempest did it first, I heard) Season 15: Solylent Green is Superheroes!!! Season 16: Cheerleader revealed to be a highly evolved shaved ape. Cue HRG man: "You maniacs, you blew it all to hell!" Season 17: They head off for more adventures on a flying steam train into the future. Spin off movie: Their superpowers were spread by bees or something, it's a bit unclear.
how bout... by mr ahole ramirez	Mar 12th, 2007 01:45:40 PM
how bout we watch the show first before we say its a blatant ripoff...you never know, they might do it in a NEW and INTERESTING way totally unlike Watchmen...heres just another case of fanboys/geeks gettin mad bout comic books....
Tell you what... by CorpseRide	Mar 12th, 2007 02:21:39 PM
...you can be opimistic for both of us. Season 18: "Horn-Rimmed Glasses Man? His name's Junior! We named the DOG Horn-Rimmed Glasses Man."
It can't be an homage because ... by UserIDGoesHere	Mar 12th, 2007 03:57:01 PM
Kring has never read a comic book in his life.
Not an original concept - by the_pissboy1	Mar 12th, 2007 04:07:14 PM
Watchmen wasn't the first story to revolve around a powerful person purposely plotting some major event in order to bring about positive change. Hell, people have accused FDR or really doing this regarding Pearl Harbor.
CORPSERIDE by bythehairofsanjaya	Mar 12th, 2007 04:20:50 PM
Pretty funny. I get your drift, but it doesn't take away from the show for me. Now if Peter's mom turned out to be Mrs. Thurston Howe and Linderman turned out to be THE Professor THAT would make me go nuclear!
NEWPEOPLE by bythehairofsanjaya	Mar 12th, 2007 04:22:33 PM
Oh and Lost is a rip-off of "The New People" all together now: "the newwwww people, starting out alone . . . what kind of world will they creeeeate"
DS9 by bythehairofsanjaya	Mar 12th, 2007 04:25:15 PM
Oh and DS9 was a total rip-off of STTNG even down to the uniforms. They even had a Klingon that looked just like the security chief on TNG.
Homage by J Skell	Mar 12th, 2007 04:49:07 PM
Heroes thus far has run the gamut of homage to simple imitation... And it's entertaining and well paced so usually I don't mind too much... but the plot points of this are just too specific. It's an ending device used with exact same intention and worse they don't even seem to really get it. WATCHMEN is not some comic that is just for comic nerds. It's one of Time's top 100 NOVELS for god's sake. It's a culturally revered work of art. And Kring and his team have outright stolen it. What's worse is that it will be cheapened and will take some of the wind out of WATCHMEN'S sails. I was so damn excited about the prospect of the film with Snyder's 70 million take this weekend (it means he'll get more freedom to do it right). And now this has just kind of tainted it. Damn.
Pissboy... by CorpseRide	Mar 12th, 2007 06:22:48 PM
True enough: but it WAS the first one to use a one-off assault on Manhatten being the supervillain's unifying plan as revealed towards the end of a superhero mystery/detective arc. I bet the Heroes guys are delighted they got to beat the Watchmen movie to the punch by 15 months. Season 19's climax: all their wives are robots! OMG the writers are geniuses! Season 20's ending: Hiro is Fed-Ex'd Ando's head in a box. Wow the writing is incredible! Ah, f*ck it I guess. Principal photography on Watchmen starts in June. I'll just enjoy that for what it is when it comes out, and hope Snyder doesn't change the ending as a result of all this.
Would it be so bad if they changed The Watchmen's end? by the_pissboy1	Mar 12th, 2007 06:29:50 PM
honestly, did anybody read that and end up shocked that the end goal was perpetrated by a so-called good guy? Who doesn't expect those kinds of turns in EVERY story? True believers willing to sacrifice a few for the sake of all = very common theme. I really don't get the reason for the way fanboys revere The Watchmen. I read it and the first half was extremely interesting; the last half, banal in the extreme. What's the big draw?
What's the big draw? by Hairy Nutsack	Mar 12th, 2007 09:49:06 PM
Pissboy you've basically just walked into a church and shit on the Bible. Seriously, to even question how great Watchmen is could get you slapped in some circles. It is simply one of the finest pieces of fiction ever written, and that includes the "banal" second half.
you guys are forgetting something... by v1cious	Mar 12th, 2007 11:36:17 PM
the person set to cause the explosion is Peter, so you know it's not actually gonna happen.
Corpseride by FUZZYWOOKIEE	Mar 12th, 2007 11:45:51 PM
I sure hope it does go twenty seasons . Maybe you could send your show bible to Kring and see if he likes it.
"Watchmen" didn't come up with the idea, either... by Nodwick	Mar 13th, 2007 12:15:48 AM
The plan to unite the world against an alien menace was first (to my knowledge) put forth in the old black-and-white "Outer Limits" episode entitled, "The Merchants of Fear." It starred Robert Culp. The re-hashing of this old idea (which has surfaced in other sci-fi TV since Culp was turned into an "alien") was what ultimately made "Watchmen" fail, at least to this reader. It's still a well-told story, but it cops out to the use of a very well-worn concept.
The WATCHMEN ending was stupid... by Bob Cryptonight	Mar 13th, 2007 12:42:50 AM
...but at least in comic book form, as a written entertainment (and given the weird pseudo-futuristic world they created), the idea was made to SEEM believable. HEROES takes place in a more bland "realistic" world and the blatant dumbness of "uniting the world through crisis" can't be disguised as a clever idea...especially without a fake otherworldly alien invasion.
Peter by Droogie Alex	Mar 13th, 2007 12:51:30 AM
What does Peter keep thinking "I'M GONNA BLOW"? I don't remember him meeting the radioactive guy, did he?
I like the way... by CorpseRide	Mar 13th, 2007 05:16:43 AM
...people still pop in here to inform us about The Outer Limits. Shows who reads the TB befoe posting, and who doesn't... I hear they're prepping a spin-off, "Clea", showing what happened to Clea Duvall's cop character... she moved to L.A. to become an actor! With hillarious consequences.
I think you guys might be rushing to judgment... by Rain_Dog	Mar 13th, 2007 08:12:49 AM
in saying this won't work because it doesn't have the fake alien invasion angle. What if Linderman is going to have the explosion pinned on Peter or one of the other potential exploding men, thus uniting the world against a new enemy within? CorpseRide, do you think something like that would be enough to take this up to the level of decent homage rather than banal rip-off? Would it in fact not constitute less of a rip-off of Watchmen than Watchmen itself did of Architects of Fear? I'm not trying to be a dick, but all we have to go on is this one report, which isn't exactly an episode outline, so I'm pretty happy to wait and see how it all plays out.
mbeemer by mbeemer	Mar 13th, 2007 09:02:03 AM
Linderman's PLAN is a rip-off of Watchman, but the RESULTS may not be. I'm willing to wait to see.
eponymous subject by mbeemer	Mar 13th, 2007 09:03:39 AM
I guess I'm not as awake as I thought this morning...
Watchmen geeks... by mr ahole ramirez	Mar 13th, 2007 11:30:59 AM
...would u guys still be pissed at HEROES if instead of payin homage to Watchmen, they did one to the "Architects of Fear"? or would you still be cryin bout the "blatant ripoff"? huh? and either way, WAIT TO THE EPISODE TO COME ON TO BASH IT, like I said, the outcome might be done totally different from what we read fromt he scoop...
ahole by CorpseRide	Mar 13th, 2007 12:29:05 PM
That would take a little of the edge off it, yeah, if they did that. Kind of a mea culpa. But ultimately Watchmen's way of reworking the concept and making it fresh was to use it as the twist reveal in a superhero-detective story, thereby deconstructing the concept of a supervillain. That's what sets it apart from previous variations. Nothing seems to set this 'Heroes' take apart from the Watchmen take, apart from they removed the alien aspect, rendering the plan utterly nonsensical. Nonethless, I'm sure they didn't reveal the season ending at this convention, so there must be more to come after this reveal. Maybe... MAYBE it'll be something that redeems the show. But I think we all suspect in our hearts that what'll happen is that they simply run around being all quirky and emo for two or three episodes and then stop the plan, everyone says "hurray", then there's a peripherally related cliffhanger to lead into the next season. Essentially 'Heroes' will be as to 'Watchmen' like the Keither Sutherland remake of The Vanishing was to the original The Vanishing - same ending, only OMG they JUST got out of it, phew, and now it's time to give the baddies a smackdown, omg omg this show is aMaZiNg!!11! mmmmm and the writing is so FRESH.
Season 21 by CorpseRide	Mar 13th, 2007 12:34:06 PM
Rosebud wasn't a supervillainess... it was the name of his CAPE! oooo the dramatic irony, emmys all round. (PS Brian Bolland drew the cover for this season)
test by Sw0rdfish	Mar 13th, 2007 02:49:38 PM
test
unite the world against what??? by INWOsuxRED	Mar 14th, 2007 08:41:33 PM
The only thing I can think of is that he is uniting the world against "heros" (in xmen they call them mutants), but that is hard logic to follow if Linderman actually is a super human, but I guess it makes as much sense as Rove's attacks on gays. It does make sense as far as needing something to get everyone's attention. The only other thing to unite against would be "the company", which assumes it isn't run by Linderman. Anyone with any other theories, or shall we just continue to complain about something we haven't seen yet and know very little about?

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