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AICN COMICS PROUDLY PRESENTS THE 3RD ANNUAL @$$IE AWARDS!!!

Stand And Applaud by TheRealMoriarty	Feb 28th, 2007 05:34:38 AM
That was a thing of beauty, gentlemen. Nice fokking work.
Awesome by ErnieAnderson	Feb 28th, 2007 05:53:18 AM
Good read guys.
Cheers by Evil Hobbit	Feb 28th, 2007 05:56:02 AM
Cheers again!
Ennis's Punisher is awesome by Steve Rogers	Feb 28th, 2007 05:56:36 AM
Who was the guy who did the art for the first arc? That was my fave. I think he might've done the Punny in jail one-shot too? That was similarly brilliant.
Ennis's Punisher is awesome by Steve Rogers	Feb 28th, 2007 05:57:10 AM
Who was the guy who did the art for the first arc? That was my fave. I think he might've done the Punny in jail one-shot too? That was similarly brilliant.
Sleazy G - Gail wrote the Secret Six not Sinister by Boondock Devil	Feb 28th, 2007 06:42:50 AM
But I'd pony up the cash to read a Sinister Six mini series written by her either way.
Doctor Strange: The Oath by Boondock Devil	Feb 28th, 2007 07:11:50 AM
Surprised this was left off of BKV's list for best writer. He actually made me care about Strange, Wong, and Night Nurse. The guys absolutely deserves to be writer of the year just for that.
Didn't like zombies vs. robots by rev_skarekroe	Feb 28th, 2007 08:07:17 AM
It was ok, I guess. Mostly I hated the ending.
Great job @$$holes! by Shigeru	Feb 28th, 2007 08:19:48 AM
Great column guys. Loved the Crucifer stuff, too. Funyons! So good to see the Oni love, too! wondering what the Cogs picked for their...COGGIES? blog.myspace.com/cogsmooches !
I'm not dead yet. by Squashua	Feb 28th, 2007 08:27:06 AM
Excellent job from the other @$$holes! FYI, I gotta sit these things out. I have a terrible memory for what really stood out to me the prior year and everything I did pick ended up being from 2005.
Crucifer! by RenoNevada2000	Feb 28th, 2007 08:36:40 AM
So glad you guys gave crucifer some work. I saw him outside the Javitts Center last weekend at the New York Comic Con panhandling. It was kinda sad the way Dan Didio dropped some change in his cup without even making eye contact.
Too many comics I want to read... by speed	Feb 28th, 2007 09:12:39 AM
So is there any chance of linking to amazon with the TPB's/Graphic novels or specials?
Crucifer by Olsen Twins_Fan	Feb 28th, 2007 10:01:57 AM
Much better host then Ellen or Schleppy - neither of those two are funny.
Da @$$ies!!! by The Heathen	Feb 28th, 2007 10:25:31 AM
Where was Schleppy? Buzz? No cameo from Dave_F? Oh well, at least the rest of the esteemed @$$holes participated. Nice column. I really disagree with a lot of it, but huge props to superhero and Sleazy G. for The Escapists love. It's the best thing ever. Actually, I think Vaughan's work in The Escapists is superior to Pride of Baghdad (sorry Humph). Can't disagree with the Brubaker love either. Cheers!
P.O.B. by Shigeru	Feb 28th, 2007 10:32:54 AM
one of the finest graphic novels of the decade? ever? yikes. I was kind of let down by it. Georgous to look at, but way too short. Didn't have any room to breathe.
Calling Thalya (a non-@$$ies note)! by Shigeru	Feb 28th, 2007 10:34:29 AM
If you thought my opinions on 'Tec 828 were bad... ask me about Brave and the Bold #1. Go ahead, really.
Great work guys! by chrth	Feb 28th, 2007 10:48:05 AM

Shig (wait, you're not looking at my @$$ now too?) by Thalya	Feb 28th, 2007 11:03:04 AM
Dude, B&B #1 was worth my money. Most comics I read have anti-asthma, they breathe too damn much.
Wait, Gabrielle Dell'Otto is a guy? by CarmillaVonDoom	Feb 28th, 2007 11:04:14 AM
Doh! Very good job on this one a-holes!
HUMPHREY LEE IS THE MAN by dtpena	Feb 28th, 2007 11:36:14 AM
He managed to make the exact same picksthat I did when I saw categories. I'll start paying more attention to your critics.
No love for Invincible? by WarpedElements	Feb 28th, 2007 11:41:45 AM
That's the only superhero comic I keep reading. Dropped that marvel trash like a bad habit. And I used to be a Wolvie fanboy that picked up anything that guest stared him. Glad to see that Cal Macdonald got some lovin'. Not like he cares 'bout the paltry little award or anything. But i'm glad he got it. No mention of Walking Dead? In the last 4 or 5 months it's really started to pick up. I mean the main character gets his right hand chopped off after it heals from being crushed. That's some fun times there.
Marvel's dignity should be included... by stones_throw	Feb 28th, 2007 11:43:15 AM
on the dearly departed list. Otherwise sterling work, despite the lack of Shleppy. And Mr Mcpoops, I imagine the @$$ies are timed to coincide with the Oscars.
Kudos by Pogue__Mahone	Feb 28th, 2007 12:39:10 PM
Well done, gang! I agree with 97.6% of the above. And the little tribute to all the talented folks who have left was tasteful, thoughtful and much appreciated, as well. I think it's Cockrum that hit me the most. He was intregal in developing my love of comic books growing up.
Cry like a bitch, Iron Man by Squashua	Feb 28th, 2007 12:40:47 PM
Read Frontline for the real ending to CWivil War.
I laughed, I cried..... by Psynapse	Feb 28th, 2007 12:50:33 PM
Emcee Crucifer: One of the funniest things I've read EVER. Tribute to the Departed: This was truly moving and Dave Cockrum ( I LOVE YOU MAN!) made the waterworks hit. Each and EVERY @$$hole take a bow, you give me hope for this industry's future....
"Jurassic Park: The New Generation" by Shigeru	Feb 28th, 2007 12:51:51 PM
'nuff said.
Nice job guys by sideshowbob	Feb 28th, 2007 01:08:09 PM
I really, really liked the "icons who passed away" bit. Very well done.
I have to say 2006 by sideshowbob	Feb 28th, 2007 01:13:50 PM
Was the year I really became jaded with comics once more. It's like 1994 all over again. I still buy some stuff, and really enjoyed Brubaker's work, the Escapists, Local, A.S.S., and couple of other things. But I'm dropping books like crazy and not replacing them with anything new. And this goes for indie stuff and mainstream stuff. I keep getting the sense creators are trying to get themselves paid before the bottom falls out of the market again and they flee to movies and TV, and it doesn't make for great stories IMO.
And by the way, Buzz (and everyone else) by sideshowbob	Feb 28th, 2007 01:15:01 PM
Where was the "Greatest Essentials/Showcase books of 2006" award? I've been digging those lines lately and am always looking for something new.
Thanks, Moriarty! by SleazyG.	Feb 28th, 2007 01:54:43 PM
Much appreciated.
Gail, please don't hate me for the SECRET SIX screwup. by SleazyG.	Feb 28th, 2007 01:55:36 PM
I wish I could go back and change it. I knew it was SECRET, not SINISTER--total brain fart. My bad, kids.
Yeah, the @$$ies are timed for Oscars week. by SleazyG.	Feb 28th, 2007 01:57:03 PM
Just like every year in the past. It's not like we just blew off the "best of" list for two months--it's meant to be an "awards show" riff. Thought the intro made that pretty clear, but I guess not...
Thanks to all... by Abin Sur	Feb 28th, 2007 01:59:02 PM
Thanks for the outstanding wrap up, gentlemen.
Still crying..... by Psynapse	Feb 28th, 2007 02:09:04 PM
And lamenting that a true talent (and genuinely nice person) like Dave Cockrum is taken from us yet cockroaches like JoeQ keep coming back.
Yeah, No Dave Cockrum = No X-MEN... by Buzz Maverik	Feb 28th, 2007 02:27:17 PM
...What would have become of mutants at Marvel if Cockrum hadn't created THE ALL NEW/ All DIFFERENT team for GIANT SIZE #1? Would we have the originals show up for soon-to-fail relaunches every few years? Would Wolverine ended up fighting the Hulk again during Bill Mantlo's run, then fading into oblivion? Would Chris Claremont and John Byrne have risen to relative superstardom? (And before you Cult of the Writer types start screaming about Len Wein, who is great by the way, that's not how it worked in those days. As editor Wein sorta told then-go-to cover artist Cockrum: "We need another Giant Size because those babies clean up. How about the X-Men? But since nobody ever liked them, keep the ones nobody likes off panel most of the time. Try an international team. Herb and I made up this Canadian mutant, Wolverine, for the Hulk last year. A wolverine? It's like a really mean-ass rat in Canada. They have mean-ass rat's up there. Black Cat? Well, that's a great drawing. I like the white hair but it's too much like the Black Panther. Howzabout...I dunno...weather powers? What? You can use Cyclops. The kids don't totally hate him. I know they don't totally hate the Beast, either, but Steve's got him in the AVENGERS. Okay, I need the art in two weeks..."
I've Been Hired To Write & Draw A Post CW SINISTER 6... by Buzz Maverik	Feb 28th, 2007 02:43:32 PM
OCK:"All this time, gentlemen, Spider-Man was there for the taking as...Peter Parker." ELECTRO:"Who the hell is Peter Parker?" KRAVEN:"Look at him! I'm not sure I even want to be seen attacking that wuss. I have my rep to think of." THE VULTURE:"Your rep for getting your ass kicked by Spider-Man?" KRAVEN:"At least I've gotten my ass kicked by other heroes. Iron Man. Tigra. Uh, maybe the Black Panther. But you, it's just Spider-Man-Spider-Man-Spider-M an." MYSTERIO: "That's because he looks so stupid none of the other heroes want to fight him. Those wings make his arms useless for anything else." VULTURE: "What about you? Ooo, it's the special effects guy! He's going to stop motion us to death!" SANDMAN:"He's got you there, loser! You can't even CGI anybody!" MYSTERIO:"Hey, I fought the Human Torch!" ELECTRO:"Yeah, while he was teamed up with Spider-Man...while you were teamed up with the Wizard!" SANDMAN:"That reminds me...why am I working with you wastes? I'm a member of the Frightful Four!" MYSTERIO:"Big deal, the Frightful Four. You've only fought--" SANDMAN:"The Fantastic Four. The Hulk. The man called Nova. Blastaar the Living Burst Bomb." VULTURE:"Is that the guy who always fought Captain Marvel?" ELECTRO:"I thought Captain Marvel fought that talking worm guy--" DOC OCK:"No, he means the Captain Marvel rip off...Captain Marvel." SANDMAN:"The black chick?" KRAVEN:"No, the guy who slammed his wrist bands together. That's who fights Blastaar." MYSTERIO:"No, you idiot. Blastaar has fought the Fantastic Four, the Hulk, the Inhumans and Thor. You're thinking of Nitro the Exploding Man." KRAVEN:"Heh, heh. That's right. Remember that time Nitro attacked Omega the Unknown because he thought he was Captain Marvel. How stupid can you get?" VULTURE: "Apparently stupid enough to wear a vest that looks like a lion." KRAVEN:"And why is your suit green? Vultures don't have green feathers." SANDMAN:"Maybe he got confused. Maybe he really wanted to be the Parrot." VULTURE:"Fuck you guys." ELECTRO:"Aww, he's getting mad..."
And you guys thought Buzz wan't gonna participate! by SleazyG.	Feb 28th, 2007 02:52:06 PM
Thanks, Buzz! Now I kinda wanna see Gail on SINISTER SIX...
Buzz Maverik: That was a great frakkin' post by chrth	Feb 28th, 2007 02:57:26 PM
Kudos! However, using < p > (remove spaces) will give you breaks. You know, just in case you ever need them. koff DOC OCK:"No, he means the Captain Marvel rip off...Captain Marvel." SANDMAN:"The black chick?"
That's the Buzz I remember! by rev_skarekroe	Feb 28th, 2007 03:05:23 PM
Now give us a weekly recap, dammit!
Thanks, Guys. Especially chrth! by Buzz Maverik	Feb 28th, 2007 03:07:16 PM
So that's how ya do that? Pretty cool. I'll try it next time!
Yeah, where's Robert Kirkman and Invincible? by Zardoz	Feb 28th, 2007 03:41:20 PM
Not only does he write one of the best selling series in the last year, which was totally ignored here, Marvel Zombies, (cough) but Invincible really is, as it's cover implies, probably the best superhero comic in the universe. And no love for Ultimates 2, even if they didn't finish the damn thing yet? Hello? (You're gonna finish it now that Civil War is over, right Mr. Millar?)
Buzz Maverick… by The Heathen	Feb 28th, 2007 03:50:43 PM
ladies and gents! Buzz Maverick BAY-BEE!!! Give him a Cuban Cigar. Give him a Hummer stocked with them even. I'd seriously read Post CW Sinister Six written and drawn by Buzz.
Though he'll settle.... by Psynapse	Feb 28th, 2007 04:21:05 PM
For a bottle of Cerveza and a hummer from a prostitute (but you BETTER not forget that goddamn cigar-one of my minions is still in traction)
A$$ie for worst name change... by amherst90jl	Feb 28th, 2007 04:26:55 PM
goes to the "Red Arrow", nee Arsenal. I didn't think you could get worse than Speedy. And yeah, today's Front Line finale nailed the coffin shut on both CW being the worst mega-event of all time, and the 616 Marvel U. now being (unfortunately)an absolute mess that has lost all touch with what their characters once stood for.
Red Arrow by The Heathen	Feb 28th, 2007 04:40:38 PM
I agree with the @$$es on this one. It's a perfect name change. What happened in Frontline? I didn't pick it up due to Paul Jenkins bein' a douche. Right, Psy? ; )
This column is too long... by nofate	Feb 28th, 2007 05:06:48 PM
to knitpick, even for me. Sufice to say I don't agree with a lot, but the one that really bakes my potato is DC as one of the best publishers just because of their improved HC collections. Really Prof., that was your criteria? How 'bout the quality/relevance/popularity of their monthly output? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
damn...this was ridiculously bias by Beeslo	Feb 28th, 2007 05:19:39 PM
Ok, we know you hate Civil War. Thats fine. I know a lot of people who hated but also a lot who enjoyed it...including myself. But I'm not miffed that you hate Millar's writing but not paying tribute to its art is fucking ridiculous!! How in the world could you not see this comic as some of the best art in 2006/2007?? You are by far the worst reviewer ever! Just cause you hated the writing doesn't mean you should overlook the art. Goddamn, I could write better reviews minus all the obvious one sided biasism that you fill this shit up with! Good god man, I look forward to reading this column and I expected you to shit on Civil War but not acknowledging its other high points (even few as you may find) is just plain stupid and this is not a review but more of some idiotic fanboy who plays sides. Shit, movie critics will admit if a particular movie is shit even if they hate who is in it or who directed it. YOU ARE A HACK AND DESERVE NO PLACE IN WRITING REVIEWS.
luna bro's "girls" by thecrimsoncurse	Feb 28th, 2007 05:41:43 PM
one of my favorite titles of the past year not mentioned. ending in only two more issues. sigh. seriously, who doesn't like naked alien girls ripping people apart?
Omigosh. That Crucifer thing is the funniest by superninja	Feb 28th, 2007 05:47:15 PM
thing I've seen in a long time! Haha, thanks, guys!
Heh, Beeslo… by The Heathen	Feb 28th, 2007 05:56:24 PM
I like how you refer to the numerous @$$holes as, "YOU." That's funny. Ya know what else partner? I think YOU should write some reviews. No, really, I mean it. You did say you could write better one right? The @$$holes even posted a few by me one time. Give it a try.
"could write A better…" by The Heathen	Feb 28th, 2007 06:00:18 PM
"who doesn't like naked alien girls ripping people apart?" Me.
All Reviews Are Biased. by Buzz Maverik	Feb 28th, 2007 06:09:16 PM
They are written from the point of view of the reviewer. If it's balanced, it's a feature. Okay, I'm gonna try one of those newfangled break thingies you kids are talkin' about. All I'll probably get is like a "p" in between a greater than and a lesser than.
I Did It! This Opens Up A Whole New World For Me. by Buzz Maverik	Feb 28th, 2007 06:19:02 PM
Buzz: This is great. Now, things will be easier for people to read when I do one of those obnoxious gag things. Buzzaro: Great. They'll be thrilled. Buzz:Hey, I think people really respond to those things. Buzzaro: Oh, please. They're just being nice. Buzz: Straight guys can't pull off saying or writing "oh,please". Buzzaro:Then it should be no problem for you. Buzz:What are you? A homophobe? You think I'd consider it an insult if you said I wasn't straight? Buzzaro:I'd consider it a miracle if you were. Buzz:Okay, that's it! Not because of what you said, but you're tone! BLAM!BLAM!BLAM!BLAM! Reload. Buzz:You'll have to excuse that other personality of mine, folks. He was drug induced several years ago and this little miracles of breaks in the talkbacks caused a psychic fugue.
You Know It's A Good Column When The @$$hole R Accused by Buzz Maverik	Feb 28th, 2007 06:27:56 PM
...of being both Marvel Zombies and biased against Marvel in the same talkback! Actually, that describes me to a "T". I really can't help being a Marvel Zombie, but current Marvel is too bad to buy and read and not worth the risk of stealing and reading.
but, Buzz… by The Heathen	Feb 28th, 2007 06:34:16 PM
you're not a Marvel Zombie, you're a Marvel Vampire. Zombies aren't capable of rational thought process remember?
The thing is, Beeslo... by SleazyG.	Feb 28th, 2007 07:11:39 PM
...no matter how slick a Michael Bay or McG movie looks, no matter how cool it is visually, it's still a Bay or McG flick. Shine a turd and call it platinum if you want, but the turd's still a turd. That may seem like an insult to Steve McNiven, but it's not meant to be: you're right. CIVIL WAR looked great. But it still sucked. Like a Michael Bay movie. Take "The Island", for example. Did Scarlet look hot in it? Yup. Did stuff blow up real good? Yup. Did it suck? Yup.
No Love For CIVIL WAR??? by dregmobile	Feb 28th, 2007 07:18:19 PM
Just kidding. Great work there, though most of the pics wouldn't show up on my screen. Will check it out again later. Plenty of interesting things to ponder. The one title up there next on my list is Pride of Baghdad. Looking forward to that.
A note on Cockrum, (Buzz, you'll like this.) by vroom socko	Feb 28th, 2007 10:04:36 PM
I was walking through my favorite bookstore the other day, when this bright red cover jumped out at me from the shelf. I took a look at it, and instantly recognised the work of Dave Cockrum. The book? Penguin's new edition of the Edgar Rice Burroughs classic A Princess of Mars. I bought it without hesetation. Damn good story. Damn great cover.
Hey NoFate! by Prof Challenger	Feb 28th, 2007 10:19:33 PM
Stop skimming, you kneejerk dumb@$$. I gave "props" to DC for their hardcovers but gave the "award" for BEST PUBLISHER to both Dynamite Entertainment and Boom! Studios. Always remember: Friends don't let friends post without reading. Dumb@$$
cool by Rupee88	Feb 28th, 2007 10:46:25 PM
This will give me some places to start for deciding what '06 and '07 comics to download and check out. Good to see comics getting some good love on AICN.
Doctor Strange by Black Satin 2	Feb 28th, 2007 10:48:16 PM
You know, I just finished Doctor Strange, 'The Oath' and what blew me away about it wasn't so much the story but the character of Stephen Strange. Looking at how Vaughn wrote him showed how so many writers before him just wasted his vast potential. They made him a superhero in a superhero world instead of a man who truly doesn't fit in either the real world or the world of superheroes. He is so sad and while I won't give away the last issue, it was a source of hope seeing him reaching out to someone else and responding to kindness for once. In many ways, John Constantine beats him in character but for this story, Strange more than held his own.
Great Columbo ending for Frontline 11! by dregmobile	Feb 28th, 2007 11:18:30 PM
or ... How To Make Tony Stark Cry. Does anyone else like the new-look Fantastic Four about to hit? I'm loking forward to it.
I haven't bought anything CIVIL WAR related since #2 by stones_throw	Mar 1st, 2007 08:50:14 AM
The Dwayne McDuffie scripted FF looks moderately intriguing, but then the Reed and Sue split was so stupid I'm not giving my money to anything connected to that. The only things I'm on board for are the resumption of Brubaker and Epting's Cap and AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE by Dan Slott because...well, it's Slott.
Ahh nofate....... by Psynapse	Mar 1st, 2007 09:02:49 AM
C'mere you rascal, it's time for your back waxing my lil' troll. (*_^)
Sluggy Freelance - Thalya == Thalia? by Squashua	Mar 1st, 2007 09:04:41 AM
I figure it's not because Pete didn't spell your name correctly, but I might as well ask, "Congratulations to Clint and Thalia! Thalia won our San Diego SBG Sluggy Cameo contest and gifted the cameo to her boyfriend Clint! I decided to cameo them both. See what fun Sluggy Cameos can be? ;)" http://tinyurl.com/2ac8bt
Nope.. by Thalya	Mar 1st, 2007 09:16:14 AM
I'm really a Katie, Squashua.
Yeah and I'm Lawrence. by Squashua	Mar 1st, 2007 10:30:53 AM
That's what your MySpace page says; just figured you went with your online nick and the guy just totally dropped the ball.
Nah... by Thalya	Mar 1st, 2007 11:02:58 AM
The girl in the comic was Latina, and I have a feeling the artist may have been faithful to depicting who the contest winners were, anyhoo.
I didn't really look by Squashua	Mar 1st, 2007 12:27:09 PM
I read words, not pictures. Oops. :D You're right though; no family resemblence.
hmm… by The Heathen	Mar 1st, 2007 12:59:31 PM
…
Well then Prof... by nofate	Mar 1st, 2007 01:17:37 PM
if you were only "giving props" to DC, why do it on a separate paragraph with their logo right next to it, and under the Best Publisher category? Why not just do it casually somewhere else? I CALL SHENANIGANS! MA' GET YOUR BROOM!! And Psynapse, I call your back waxing, lord knows I need it, and raise you a colonic. What do you say?
Good for you, Bug by El Vale	Mar 1st, 2007 01:58:26 PM
MAX Punisher is the best Marvel comic being published today and that is a cold, heartless fact. Heath, you were right about The Escapists. Finally, trades are now outselling monthly comics...thank god for that, now it's going to get really interesting. For more info, check out this week's Permanent Damage over @ comicbookresources.com
Vale by The Heathen	Mar 1st, 2007 02:32:08 PM
Glad you were able to finally read it man. It's that good isn't it? I was 'this' close to sending you issue #3 in the mail, but then I realized that was the issue with the Cassaday cover. NO DICE! ; ) Now hurry up and watch last nights LOST, which was also that good. Well, it wasn't as good as The Escapists, but it was awesome. GO!!!
Invincible by epitaph	Mar 1st, 2007 03:27:09 PM
No mention of Invincible from Image Comics. Quite possibly the greatest superhero comic of all time!!! You guys ARE @$$holes!
Can JUSTICE get any better? by dregmobile	Mar 1st, 2007 04:11:50 PM
It sure doesn't need to. This last one was great. The moment with Superman and Lead was priceless. Funniest thing I've read in a book in a while.
I'm so glad The Escapists got so much love. by rbatty024	Mar 1st, 2007 05:07:32 PM
I never thought there would be a comic book that was so respectfult to my hometown of Cleveland. Thank you Brian K. Vaughn. We're no longer just the city whose lake caught on fire.
It's weird… by The Heathen	Mar 1st, 2007 06:43:29 PM
people are talking about Invincible. Don't get me wrong, I love the book, but I can't remember the last time it was reviewed, or much less even talked about around here, which is again… weird. I think it's great, but something about the past few issues doesn't keep it in my mind. Maybe due to how often it comes out? The best way to read Invincible is when it's collected. Those HC Volumes are nice.
Prof. re: Best Publisher by The Heathen	Mar 1st, 2007 07:12:13 PM
I know nofate gives the @$$es a lot of shit (sometimes undeserved), but I can see where he thought you picked DC as Best Publisher. I had to re-read your pick because whoever coded this column bolded DC and not Dynamite Entertainment and Boom! Studios as well as putting an image of DC's logo right next to your pick. With all the other picks the winner's name is bolded with an image of their logo next to it. So it's an easy mistake to make. Let's all hug and sing songs now. ; )
Invincible and Prof. C. by Squashua	Mar 1st, 2007 08:31:46 PM
Invincible - I only buy the TPBs, so I'll review one when it comes out. Regarding Prof's DC vote, I think that may have been a goof on the page-preparer's part; the next sentence says he's voting for Boom!, etc. I think the preparer just saw DC first and highlighted it out of habit.
BOOK OF THE WEEK: SG&LOSH #27 by Psynapse	Mar 2nd, 2007 08:17:34 AM
The reason for this is simple. Rather than run a letter column this issue, they devoted 4 pages in tribute to Dave Cockrum. They publicly acknowledge that Dave did for the Legion what he did for the X-Men. He redefined their look and made them marketable once more to an entire generation. Furthermore they inform the world of something I’ve longed argued to anyone who would listen. It can be argued that Dave Cockrum single-handedly introduced true fashion sense in Superhero costuming design. Until Dave came along superheroes were still very much stuck in that 1950’s/60’s movie serial design sense. Dave brought high fashion costuming concepts and brought ‘em with a bang. As DC states, his contribution to the industry and influence on damn near every artist who came after him simply cannot be ignored. I hereby formally nominate SG&LOSH #27 for at least an honorable mention in the single issue category for the 2007 awards be they @$$ies or Cogs. Show some love to a man who gave you more than you might ever have known. And while you’re at your LCS this week, take a moment to read those last 4 pages in SG & LOSH #27. At the every least you’ll get some understanding of one of the true comic gods of the 20th century. We’ll miss you Dave, may whatever gods there are welcome you as one of their own.
Because after all..... by Psynapse	Mar 2nd, 2007 09:21:24 AM
Before Dave, Wolverine was 'The best there is..." WITH WHISKERS. Need I say more?
yeah, Squash… by The Heathen	Mar 2nd, 2007 10:06:30 AM
that's pretty much what I said regarding Prof's pick for Best Publisher. Psy, that''s awesome that they did that for Mr. Cockrum. Good form.
Newsarama Blog Linked the @$$ies by Squashua	Mar 2nd, 2007 10:18:35 AM
Thanks, JK!
The internet has meaning again! by loodabagel	Mar 2nd, 2007 10:18:40 AM
I'm loodabagel and I'm back from the dead. Chillin at the beach down at Club Med. What's been going on in my head lately? I gotta know, is there any, and I mean any BKV hate around here? Is there any BKV hate anywhere? We are running low on BKV hate. I love the guy. Why don't all of you hate him?
How can you hate... by Psynapse	Mar 2nd, 2007 10:31:06 AM
the man who gave us Runaways #24 this week? That last page is a STUNNER.
This GN might be up for some awards next year! by kyletwebster	Mar 2nd, 2007 10:35:41 AM
Teaser site looks awesome - www.lightchildren.com
Teaser website - blech by Squashua	Mar 2nd, 2007 10:40:34 AM
Awesome? It pops open a new window and plays music. I instantly cloed my browser. There's nothing awesome about that at all.
Have you never used the internet before? by Shigeru	Mar 2nd, 2007 01:39:28 PM
I'm sorry but that site is anything but intrusive. You can turn the sound off at any time and resize the window at will. It looks pretty dang rad, actually. Kyle your art is cool! When do you think a preview will be available?
Fuck BKV by El Vale	Mar 2nd, 2007 01:47:11 PM
The guy is a fucking racist and his depiction of Asians is nothing short of disgusting. ASIAN POWER!
Kyle Webster re: Light Children by The Heathen	Mar 2nd, 2007 02:33:59 PM
Awesome site, Kyle! I love the opening image and the logo too. The art has this eerie fantasy quality to it. Hell, the tagline is even good. The site itself is cool because it has great music (that can be turned off or on at will), it has wallpapers, a story page, a blog - it's put together really well. Ignore comments from inane people with no design sense. I wish you the best with it. Keep us posted. Squash, you're a fucking douche bag. This guy is here trying to get the word out on something independent, unique and original and all you can do is be an ass? I expect more from a reviewer on this site and quite frankly you haven't made the place that fun to hang out in as it once was. That's a sad, sad realization. I hope you take some thought before spouting off like that next time.
Werd. by El Vale	Mar 2nd, 2007 02:42:29 PM
You heard me.
ASIAN POWER! by Shigeru	Mar 2nd, 2007 02:43:13 PM
fucking LOL!!! Let's start dirty rumors about BKV. The dude has too much love. I saw him pee on a homeless person once. What a bastard!
Free Knuckle Tattoo Removal @ The @$$hole Clubhouse. by Buzz Maverik	Mar 2nd, 2007 04:12:12 PM
If BATMAN BEGINS wasn't the official favorite movie of the Fanboy, it'd be NIGHT O' THE HUNTER(providing they'd, you know, heard of it--"Uh, Buzz, I saw that and let me tell you, that animated T-Rex skeleton was fake!"). Robert Mitchum had "Love" tattooed on the knuckles of one hand and "Hate" tattooed on the knuckles of the other long before that guy in your barracks who was such an asshole during boot camp (mind you, Mithcum was PLAYING a bad guy). I think the hyperbole of the internet might have something to do with it, but we Fanboys either tend to love (see the left hand) or hate (see the right hand, presuming that you're not...uh, contemplating your thoughts with it). When it comes to comics, love is more dangerous to the "creators". Don't believe me? Go to John Byrne's message board. You "hate" him now but everybody loved him once, too much which contributed to him being the wonderful person he is today. "Hate" I think we direct too much at each other. "You love that? Well, I hate it." "That's hate speech." "You wanna fight?" "Them's fightin' words." I plagiarized that last bit from THE SIMPSONS.
Dave Cockrum by Tito Trinidad	Mar 2nd, 2007 06:14:56 PM
When he died, a lot of mainstream media made note (fun?) of the fact that he was wearing his superhero pajamas. That one poignant fact is what made me actually tear up. Not a joke: that guy went out like a true g.
I hear ya, Tito. by SleazyG.	Mar 2nd, 2007 08:06:34 PM
There's nothing wrong with dying in a way that tells people you loved every fuckin' minute of what you did. People can snicker all they want, but if it's a choice of dying in superhero PJ's or on top of my laptop cranking out spreadsheets, I know which way I'd wanna go out. Sadly, I know the second is far more likely than the first... ...but that's cuz I sleep nekkid.
Fuck the mainstream press.... by Psynapse	Mar 2nd, 2007 09:16:05 PM
The man lived as he loved and what he loved is why we're here on this TB. Fuck 'em up their stupid asses...
Oh my god, the Flash is back, baby! by Thalya	Mar 3rd, 2007 04:02:28 PM
I dropped Flash: FMA from my pull list but I picked it up to see if the writer's any good and all I have to say is Guggenheim's got it going on! This (issue #9) should be the official starting point for Bart's run as Flash. Guggenheim got rid of all the crap from the Bilson/DeMeo run in one issue, turned things around, gets this character and everything you need to know about him, had lots of fun and threw in some zany one-liners for good measure, and this was just the "Prologue" to this story arc. I can't wait for Rogue-y goodness now!
Thanks, Heathen by Squashua	Mar 3rd, 2007 05:57:03 PM
Positive feedback == always appreciated.
kick! by Thalya	Mar 5th, 2007 11:50:41 AM
Is this thing on?
yep. by The Heathen	Mar 5th, 2007 12:32:35 PM
Lady C., I might check out issue #9, but Guggenheim hasn't impressed me with his Wolverine and Blade runs over at Marvel. But being better than Bilson and DeMeo shouldn't be too hard. Who's on the art?
You know by El Vale	Mar 5th, 2007 01:02:55 PM
I'd really like to read Shig's thoughts on Brave and the bold...they sound juicy.
Well, Guggenheim's no Johns.. by Thalya	Mar 5th, 2007 01:06:18 PM
And anyone can be better than Bilson and DeMeo. As the solicit says, "Art by Ron Adrian and Art Thibert." Tony Daniel of Teen Titans is supposed to take over 3 issues down the line, too (that's gonna be gorgeous).
Or on second thought, let me amend that.. by Thalya	Mar 5th, 2007 01:09:19 PM
Guggenheim's better than average the way Bilson and DeMeo were worse than average. But that he got all of who Bart is in his first issue says a lot for him. If the next issue's as good as this one, it's back on my pull list thereafter.
i am by blackthought	Mar 5th, 2007 01:10:49 PM
...er...
Julian McMahon on Dr. Doom by The Heathen	Mar 5th, 2007 01:16:37 PM
"Then he's got his lair set up in some castle in Latveria, right? We're talking comic book stuff so you have to kind of go with all this kind of stuff. With all these monitors and stuff, I don't know where he got 'em all from but they're pretty cool. He sees this kind of entity which is the Silver Surfer. Just knowing the comic books, Dr. Doom is Dr. Doom so what does he do? He goes and he tries to destroy everybody and get everybody's powers and all that kind of stuff. That's basically what the character's about." Wow. He really gets the character doesn't he? Good grief.
I'm done... by GreatA'Tuin	Mar 5th, 2007 01:21:28 PM
I, Great A'Tuin, hereby refuse to read anything that Marvel publishes that isn't written by Brubaker or Whedon until Fat Joey and Bald Moron Bendis are fired. Why now you ask? The answer is simple...Civil War. Captain America is a soldier. He has, and always will fight for freedom. Being a soldier, he understands more than other Super types that there are casualities of war. Thus...HE WOULD NEVER FUCKING GIVE HIMSELF UP! Even if he would, the GODDAMNED House of (BAD) Ideas should NEVER have written a story-line that ends with STEVE FUCKING ROGERS in PRISON. That's it. That's the deal. He is America. We (at least in illustrated fiction) are the good guys. Get your piss ant "reality edge" out of my fucking escapism. I'll tell you what, I'll read another Marvel title when Joey Q, Bendis and Myllar (or however the fuck you spell his name) hold a press conference apologizing for this bullshit.....Oh and they should have to grow mullets, keep them for at least a year, and make all public apperances dressed at a Leifield drawn Thor. P.S. Squashua....you're a douche.
edit by GreatA'Tuin	Mar 5th, 2007 01:24:15 PM
"at a Leifield drawn Thor" should read "AS a Leifield drawn Thor". Carry on.
You know by The Heathen	Mar 5th, 2007 01:27:00 PM
I'd want to know that too. I'd also like to read, but I haven't been to my shop. Shig's the only person who seems to dislike it from the reviews I've seen. Dave_F really dug it even. Shig? Tony Daniel on Flash will rule. I'd get those just for the art alone probably. Cool. Anyone read any of Star Wars: Legacy? I've read the first three and they're pretty good. I like how it's set 100 years after the original trilogy. Skips over the past few years of muck that have been the expanded universe in the novels. Plus, spirit Luke talking to his smuggling in denial Jedi descendant. Good stuff.
Oh, Marvel… by The Heathen	Mar 5th, 2007 01:40:13 PM
I'm pretty much with Turtle on that one, although I like Peter David's Gunslinger and X-Factor books and Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane at least until McKeever leaves. Bendis. Bendis is tricky. Sometimes he's great like his last New Avengers issue (27) or on stuff like ALIAS, but then there's HoM and those NA issue's like #26. He's a loose cannon and he needs to be edited mainly. He better not fuck up the HALO ongoing. But yeah, safe bets are with Bru and Whedon. Speaking of Bru, I just read the Winter Kills one-shot over the weekend and loved it. Anyone worried that Astonishing X-Men is going to have some fubar creative team after Whedon and Cassaday?
The Great and Secret Show #10 by Psynapse	Mar 5th, 2007 01:40:13 PM
Fucking OWNED. OWNED I tell you!!
Way ahead of you Turtle.. by Thalya	Mar 5th, 2007 02:00:28 PM
When you witness an ass-raping of a longtime fan of The Avengers in a convention panel, you tend to get a sense that there's something fishy going on. That, and when the product delivered doesn't match the hype in HoM #1. And if I may say something, I think B&B #1 doesn't suit Shig's tastes because it's too old school and not indie enough. Am I close to the mark, Shig?
btw.. 52 #43 anyone? by Thalya	Mar 5th, 2007 02:08:58 PM
(SPOILER)CHOMP(ENDSPOILER)
NA #26 by El Vale	Mar 5th, 2007 02:16:51 PM
Is that the one with Hawkeye and Scarlet Witch? Cause i really dug that one. I remember reading Bug's (i think) review and wanting to check it out cause it was the kind of negative review that makes it sound like something i'd really enjoy...and i did. It was abstract and there were like a million silent panels and Maleev's art was easily the best i've seen from him. Just gorgeous. So fuck you all.
BTW Turtle by El Vale	Mar 5th, 2007 02:22:21 PM
Your friend Broken Record here: You might want to check out MAX Punisher...it's not exactly the kind of comic that you would describe as "Written by Brubaker or Whedon", but it's my fave right now and it has absolutely nothing to do with Civil War AND it's Garth friggin Ennis for fucksakes! Best writer currently working in comics? Oh, when he's trying, you better believe it baby.
Now here's a shocker by El Vale	Mar 5th, 2007 02:33:38 PM
Brubaker's Daredevil? Fails to grab me every single time. The latest issue was like a perfect encapsulation of his entire run on the title. Some of it was okay, some of it was great and some of it was...just no. I know it's supposed to be like 10 million times better than Bendis' run on the title because let's face it, that was just horrible because...well because of something! But i just fail to see it. And it's not like i was giving the guy a tough break with the title; when it was announced the guy was writing it, i was like Brubaker, the guy who wrote that run on Catwoman that, to this day, is one of my favorite things ever including sex + Daredevil = I probably won't need sex anymore. And here it turns out my expectations were a little bit too high. Well shit.
Well Vale... by Thalya	Mar 5th, 2007 03:05:09 PM
With CATwoman you were already getting pussy, so it stands to reason..
Oh my dear Thal by El Vale	Mar 5th, 2007 03:09:59 PM
ZING
Yes, Pun is all well and good,but.... by GreatA'Tuin	Mar 5th, 2007 03:21:54 PM
I WANT MULLETS ON THOSE FUCKWADS! I'm super serial! Mullets and knee-high yellow boots. Oh and they should have to sing "The Lumberjack Song", IN FULL, whenever someone mentions the Illuminati.
But Bendis can't grow hair! by El Vale	Mar 5th, 2007 03:30:25 PM
Tis true.
I'm digging… by The Heathen	Mar 5th, 2007 03:31:02 PM
Bru's Daredevil so far. I think Vale has convinced me to read MAX Punisher too, at least in trades or something. He just needs to read, I dunno, Son of M or something? ; ) NA #26 was poop.
Heath by El Vale	Mar 5th, 2007 03:45:16 PM
You also need to check out all those War Stories Ennis wrote a couple years ago. They're just...amazing. As for me, as soon as i find a Son of M torrent i'm downloading the fuck out of it!
Sweet by The Heathen	Mar 5th, 2007 03:59:48 PM
Yeah, I haven't read too much Ennis, but what I have I've liked. I'm so glad that The Boys is going to be brought back. I may start with his Punisher run though. I've been in the mood for some good Punisher stories, so I'll start there. Plus, there's that The End story I've heard so much about. Son of M!!!
i love this cog-talkback by blackthought	Mar 5th, 2007 04:07:21 PM
it's good and clean and all things wholesome alongside the occasional raping.
Mmm… by The Heathen	Mar 5th, 2007 04:11:21 PM
love me some occasional raping… of the comic variety of course. Speaking of which, how about Julian McMahon on Dr. Doom? Where's, Shig? Did he mess up his elbow this weekend? Anyone see Black Snake Moan? Awesome.
First you read The End by El Vale	Mar 5th, 2007 04:19:00 PM
Then you read The Cell. MAkes you happy.
WAR! by GreatA'Tuin	Mar 5th, 2007 04:20:44 PM
I am declaring war on Civil War and all it's wacky nephews. I will lay waste to anyone defending this tripe. I fucking DARE you jugg-fucklers to tell me that this shit is OK. Flame ON, fuckballs!
Dr. Doom On Julian McMahon: by Buzz Maverik	Mar 5th, 2007 04:20:46 PM
"Contemplate this as you are disentegrated over the course of the next 24 hours: you are an actor from....er--" "Basic cable, master." "Silence, dolt. Doom does not need you to supply his words! As I was saying, McMahon, your pitiful basic cable show may be a fine place for Brooke Shields to guest star, but an artless portrayal of Doom has yielded far worse than negative reviews for you. Am I the metrosexual you portrayed? Is Susan Richards even my type! Feh! Doom goes for more exotic firebrands, like gypsy women and Storm ... and I'm not talking a slumming Halle Berry Storm either. And I get them, too. Sometimes even second and third base. And I'd never lose a woman, or anything to Richards, especially when he's portrayed by that..." "Guy, master?" "I command you to quit doing that! As if I'd be caught dead on a spaceship with the Four Fools! As if I, Lord of Latveria, would sit in board meeting. I'd feed the board to those corporate miscreants. Perhaps the most unpardonable crime of your so called...uh--" "Movie, your lordliness?" "Enough. Disentegrate yourself this instant." "Yes, master." "Yes, your greatest folly was to confuse me, future ruler of all the world, with that genetic freak Magneto. My power comes from my infinite brilliance. Magneto's alleged power is--" "The guy playing him in the movies is a good actor, master?" "Yes. You have pleased Doom this day, my faithful servant. Stop your own disentegration process and finish overseeing that of Mr. McMahon. Doom is off to the Latveria 14 to see what all the fuss is over this pathetic GHOST RIDER."
Latveria 14 by The Heathen	Mar 5th, 2007 04:42:34 PM
Nice. I'd love to have Dr. Doom do movie reviews and celebrity interviews.
Civil War is ok by El Vale	Mar 5th, 2007 04:59:08 PM
The series has been considerably panned online, but I think it stands up much better as a whole. A great deal of criticism over the balance of the argument presented in the series only stands up if the it's not considered as a whole and the twist in tone more than plot in the last issue gives it that exact balance. The delay in issues really didn't help that, so I recommend a reread. And at least we now know that, yes, "A" does stand for America. (Apoligies to Rich Johnston for using his stuff but i really had to make Turtle angry)
A Hole by GreatA'Tuin	Mar 5th, 2007 05:36:53 PM
Look, I understand that it should be read as a whole, it's an engaging story, shit happens, blah blah blah. It should never have been written with the characters involved. These characters do NOT belong to JoeyQ, Bald Moron, or that limey fuck. If they belong to anyone, they belong to Stan Lee, but he's gone a bit senile lately himself. This is the same problem that happened with the Almighty Trilogy. The stories and characters belong to the people who pay to love them. When you forget about thatm you shit become null and void. Problem 1: Tony Stark is not that big an asshole. Pragmatic? Certainly. Able to make tough, unpopular descisions? He wouldn't get far in business if he couldn't. Determined? Absolutely. A FASCIST? No, and I do not even have to explain why he would be the second one to burn his registration card on the steps of the Capitol. Problem Two: This is the same congress who couldn't/wouldn't pass the Mutant Registration Act, even when Genosha was de-fucking-stroyed. But no, all of a sudden a school gets blowed up and now they get their shit together? Sorry, I don't buy it. Problem Three: Captain America, and I cannot stress this enough, is not a pussy. He would not back out of a fight and turn himself in to authorities after all of that bullshit. He made the descision to fight at the beginning of the shit, he as he has done before, would see it through. Mullets, baby. Mullets, yellow boots and a toy hammer.
Civil Wart by dregmobile	Mar 5th, 2007 06:06:34 PM
LOL @ Buzz - that was great. With all the tie-ins, and delays, I expected something more out of the CW than what occurred in issue 7. But still, there was some great action and story in there. I have no problem with Stark and Richards being out of character, since I'm new to the characters. And I like the idea of these heroes having dark streaks. It strikes me as kind of ... real - that they would have flaws. I am not touching this INITIATIVE, though. It looks quite very particularly boring. I enjoyed NA 26. And love 27. Did no one drool over the majesty that was JUSTICE 10? Go Arrow!
Ahh… by The Heathen	Mar 5th, 2007 07:18:47 PM
I really dug NA #27. Haven't been to the shop to get the latest Justice. Is it even cooler than last issue's Metal Men wearing Justice League? I loved that shit. Rock on Turtle. I thought Vale was serious. Wait, is he serious? Have you read the CW yet, Vale?
Remember, Gus Nukem? by The Heathen	Mar 5th, 2007 08:29:04 PM
Our missing would be Cog who is lost in the mansion or was it Greece? Anyways, didn't he always mention a book by Ennis called 303? Well, BKV just announced that the trade is coming out this week and it's in his Top 5 Comics of the week. The Frank Miller Daredevil Omnibus is too. I'd love to get a hold of that, but I don't have the cash. Crap.
This Monday… by The Heathen	Mar 5th, 2007 08:43:20 PM
hasn't been a rogue one if I do say. Cheers!
No i haven't read Civil War by El Vale	Mar 5th, 2007 09:15:40 PM
I have no idea what happened in it or whatever but i just HAD to go and make Turtle mad at me because that's what i do...so i used Rich Johnston's opinions on the book since he's like the one person who actually dug Civil War. So no i wasn't being serious.
No kidding? by El Vale	Mar 5th, 2007 09:19:18 PM
gus really made me want to read that 303 book, claiming it was the best thing Ennis had ever written, but of course it was impossible to find. Let's see if someone scans the fucking thing so i can read it. I didn't care for NA #27 at all. I guess that right there tells you all you need to know about my tastes as a comic book reader.
But, Vale… by The Heathen	Mar 5th, 2007 09:27:53 PM
you're probably the only person I know that is either synced up perfectly with me or polar opposite. I dunno why, but that always seems to be the case huh? What didn't you like about it? I liked it because it had a little of everything: a build up, some speculation, some action and a great reveal. I didn't like NA #26 because it was TOO open and in the comics medium you need just a little more than that unless you're Moore or something and Bendis and Maleev ain't Moore. Check out this Kevin Smith interview. He brought up a great point about Superman Returns and rape. Check it out: http://tinyurl.com/2bdm4k
Yeah i know, it's weird by El Vale	Mar 5th, 2007 10:12:52 PM
And we can't chalk it up to Bendis either, cause sometimes we agree on him as well. When did you rape me? That was great. He's right about X3 being better than Superman Returns too, and i know you disagree with me there. What do you mean too open?
I'm seeing Pan's Labyrinth tomorrow by El Vale	Mar 5th, 2007 10:22:54 PM
Can't wait.
enjoy it... by blackthought	Mar 6th, 2007 12:10:51 AM
it was a kickass movie.
Harmony, Ppl by Squashua	Mar 6th, 2007 09:02:19 AM
"P.S. Squashua....you're a douche." What the hell, guys? Can't we all just get along? Regarding that guy's website, I said "blech" because Ievaluated it at a technical level rather than at an "artistic" level. As a web technician, I don't "do" websites that pop up new browser windows and play music. I'm sure Joe Public enjoys it, but I don't. I didn't spend enough time on that site to judge it's artistic merits.
Ooh, pretty MySpace JLA cover thing.. by Thalya	Mar 6th, 2007 09:41:38 AM
Allez-vous ici! http://tinyurl.com /2ch58c
"I didn't spend enough time on that site to judge it's by Shigeru	Mar 6th, 2007 09:53:14 AM
artistic merits." I think that's kind of the point we were making.
where did my post go? by Shigeru	Mar 6th, 2007 09:55:03 AM
hello?
I'm not dead! by Shigeru	Mar 6th, 2007 10:17:08 AM
just resting! "I think B&B #1 doesn't suit Shig's tastes because it's too old school and not indie enough." Naw, it didn't suit my tastes cause it sucked. Don't get me wrong, I, like any other fanboy worth their salt, would give George Perez a hand-job in a second, but even this felt incomplete. And it's time for people to stop worshipping Mark Waid just cause he wrote Kingdom Come. I bet it's on his freaking business cards; "Mark Waid, writer of Kingdom Come." Get over it. I have no problem with old-school. I own plenty of old-school comics. I love the Marvel Essentials stuff. I do have a problem with stuff pretending to be old-school, and instead coming off as boring, shoehorned, hackneyed, rushed and forgettable. Just because a lot "happened" doesn't mean that it wasn't dull as fuck. Probably the reason people are slobbering all over themselves for this new-old-DC stuff is because they wanted a relief from Superboy punching people's heads off. And once again, I give you: "Jurassic Park: The new generation." "Was that a film?" shigeru dies a little inside
Hope Ya Enjoy PAN'S LABYRINTH, El... by Buzz Maverik	Mar 6th, 2007 11:02:44 AM
...it knocked my brains out! And you won't even have substitles (although by the end of "foreign" language films, I almost always think I understand the language. I'd come out of John Woo's Hong Kong triad movies thinking I could speak Cantonese. Came out of NIGHT WATCH shouting in Russian last year. Of course, in So Cal, you GOTTA be able to swear in Spanish). Just an amazing movie, visually beautiful, with a message of freedom and the power of fantasy. A lot of people say Del Toro for SANDMAN, and while he'd be great, I would imagine he's at that point in his career where he might say what Quentin Tarantino has said about adapting comics, "Life is too short to make movies about someone else's comic book character."
Pan's by Shigeru	Mar 6th, 2007 11:13:40 AM
Buzz, that's not the message I got, but I don't want to say anymore for fear of spoilers. Vale, tell us what you thought!
Brave and Bold by Tito Trinidad	Mar 6th, 2007 11:17:12 AM
Nope I liked it because of the fantastic, coherent art. The good story, great characterization and the fact that it has me eagerly waiting for the next ish. Not so much "old school" as it is just plain awesome storytelling. And some people might be slobbering over DC because of bullshit like CW. As bad as IC was(and boy was it BAD)CW is just Contest of Champions sans the Gamemaster. And not as well written. I wish they would do a JLA/Avengers crossover now. If Superman thought the 616 heroes were losers before....
Shig. re. Pan's by Buzz Maverik	Mar 6th, 2007 12:19:51 PM
Art is often a rorshach. (A bunch of guys are reading that and saying,"Rorshach's name was Art? Hurm!").
Vale and Pan's and stuff… by The Heathen	Mar 6th, 2007 12:36:39 PM
Vale. Yeah, we can't chalk it up to Bendis like you said. It's interesting. I think NA #26 was too open because (and it's been a month or so now) I wasn't sure if Hawkeye took advantage of Wanda or if Wanda took advantage of Hawkeye? Was her Aunt in that other room? Was the whole thing in Clint's head? If so, was it Wanda messing with him? What was the point of the whole issue? I'm sure there's more precise debate on the TB Bug reviewed it, but that's my reasoning. Stinks too, because I thought Bendis was coming off a personal high with his CW tie-ins of all things. You're right… kinda. I think both Superman Returns and X3 suffer from being too safe or too close to the past movies. Let's start with Superman Returns. I like a lot of it on the surface, but you can't deny stuff like that Kevin Smith interview and that realization greatly weakens the chance that a new Superman could have had. When looking back, it's kind of a train wreck that everyone survived and even though you're not dead, you can't forget it either. X3, people got killed in that train wreck. In theory, the story could have been better, but it wasn't handled right and even if it was it only be as good as X2 was on it's best day. Probably not even that good because it's the same plot in every X-Men movie. I mean, Juggernaut actually said the line from a viral video off the fucking internet! Bullshit man. And Superman is a rapist. Thank the maker for Batman Begins and the Spidey films. Pan's is great. I love the score it had. Can't wait to hear what you thought Vale. Buzz, Del Toro is continuing to make Hellboy movies and projects though so I'm not sure if that holds weight, but I get what you mean. He's at a point where he should be able to do whatever he wants. Hell, he did with Pan's and it paid off. Thalya, that cover is sweet. Just wish they'd have a bigger version. The image was tiny. Finally, Squash. What Shig said and also, "You reap what you sow." Think about it.
Heathen by Thalya	Mar 6th, 2007 01:02:01 PM
Ask and ye shall receive! http://tinyurl.com/2799ch There's also a breaking news story on Newsarama to go along with it.
And at that "ooh, pretty rainbows"... by Thalya	Mar 6th, 2007 01:19:27 PM
In other news: triumph on that tricky four-layer page 13! Now if I can just de-wordify my captions...
why is Superman running? by Shigeru	Mar 6th, 2007 01:42:08 PM
seriously? Buzz you crack me up.
Grr..... by GreatA'Tuin	Mar 6th, 2007 01:43:52 PM
I seethe with generic rage. FUCK....somthing.
Latveria's Only Multiplex Explodes. by Buzz Maverik	Mar 6th, 2007 02:07:28 PM
Apparently, a green cloth and metal plate garbed patron thought 300 was already out. Settling for GHOST RIDER, he was suddenly heard to shout: "This is not real butter! And if they show one more insipid preview, I will slay them all."
Heath by El Vale	Mar 6th, 2007 02:55:18 PM
RE: NA #26 All those things you said are the reasons why i liked it so much. Meanwhile, i thought the art in NA #27 was crap (Luke Cage kicking Elektra in the non-nuts has to be the single worst visual in the last few months), the narration was bullshit and i just couldn't bring myself to care. Ninjas are fucking lame, man. Sorry Shig.
WTF!?!? by GreatA'Tuin	Mar 6th, 2007 03:24:30 PM
VALE! How dare you, my good man? Ninja just flip out and kill people! They're much better than pirates!
Every single time i see a ninja by El Vale	Mar 6th, 2007 03:55:36 PM
I tune out. Seriously, i just don't get why they're cool. Anyone remember that "Secret life of Foggy Nelson" Daredevil issue? At one point a million ninjas jump out of nowhere and i just...it lost me. And then Foggy shouts "NINJAS!". Yeah thanks, that's a real useful piece of information right there. In fact, had you not pointed it out, i might have confused them for gorillas or maybe even fungi. Man that was lame.
criticism for Brave and the Bold by dregmobile	Mar 6th, 2007 04:47:43 PM
i try to read it, but all i see is "slkdfjh adfkjdbsgfah rgarh m,xvn xcsid". seriously, my mind just can't compute negativity toward that great comic. more i think about SUPERMAN RETURNS, the more i hate that film and singer for thinking it up. what a waste. we will always have the plane sequence, though. and of course, every now and then we'll watch it and convince ourselves "it's really not THAT bad" ... a sentiment that will no doubt last for a few weeks if we're lucky before reading a kevin smith interview that breaks us out of the matrix where singer is god. Nextwave TPB was a fun read - great for a few laughs ... but i don't think i'll grab the second trade. if i had plenty of money - sure. fun, but not high on my list.
Ninjas are scariest when disguised as hedges ... by chrth	Mar 6th, 2007 04:50:39 PM

Ninjas Got Me An Original Trilogy Theater Laugh. by Buzz Maverik	Mar 6th, 2007 04:51:04 PM
True story. Hard to believe, but when I was in high school, my sidekick Eriglione and I smoked several bowls and went to what will annoyingly become known as "the grindhouse" to see NINJA 3: THE DOMINATION. I remember we kept saying,"These little Bits O' Honey with buttered popcorn are fuckin' good, man!" It probably didn't help that we'd smuggled a couple of six packs of Bud in. Anyway, the movie which was probably about some chick getting possessed by the spirit of a Ninja (I think there was a floating sword but that may have just been whatever was in the butter flav-o-ing). Mako, or some other wise old Asian guy (more stoned conversation:"How come all the old Japanese guys in movies are wise. Some of 'em had to be dumbasses." "No, the dumbasses get killed by ninjas")said, "Only one thing can stop a ninja..." at which point, I shouted out, "Yoda!" Everybody in the theater cracked up, but I think it was more to do with the fact that they were in the same state of inebriation as Eriglione and me. So ninjas are A-OK in my book.
And Have Ninjas Ever Won A Fight? by Buzz Maverik	Mar 6th, 2007 04:54:26 PM
One guy always kicks the crap out of 57,000 ninjas. How bad can ninjitsu be if it takes a 100 ninjas to completely get the living shit pounded out of their pores by a guy in a hoodie?
Those are mere chuunin, Buzz by Psynapse	Mar 6th, 2007 07:09:37 PM
Chuunin are like the nebraska bred U.S. army infantry: not necessarilly all that bright but willing to dive headlong into death if an authority figure tells them to. And killing chuunin is like eating Lay's potato chips, one is never enough. Besides, The Hand is notorious for shitty recruiting. It's like they troll video arcades and shit.
Pan's Labyrinth by El Vale	Mar 6th, 2007 09:00:39 PM
What a beautiful movie. I'm still kinda bummed out about it, i thought it was incredibly sad. More later.
For those who wanted an update... by Thalya	Mar 6th, 2007 10:44:37 PM
This is the general idea: (http://tinyurl.com/3b2cm6). While not everything is readable or legible (better not to reveal too much of the story anyway), this was what I was thinking for that one page and why I don't think a six-horizontal-panel page would work.
Oh dear... I'm not gonna post it here, go to Newsarama by Thalya	Mar 7th, 2007 08:27:12 AM
points to the first story on the site regarding Captiain America GIANT MEGA SUPERDUPER SPOILERS lie there. Beware. And Turtle, prepare the ninja T-rexes and whatever else arsenal you have because when you read this you're gonna take us all on a mission of rampage against Marvel at zombie gunpoint, Vale included.
Says Brubaker on the Bendis Board... by stones_throw	Mar 7th, 2007 09:23:49 AM
"Just so everyone knows -- No copies of Cap 25 were released in advance. So, someone is making shit up, basically." So hopefully it won't happen. But if Marvel is putting that much mainstream publicity behind it and it doesn't even happen, they're even more shameless than everyone knows they are.
maybe (SPOILERS) by Shigeru	Mar 7th, 2007 09:30:03 AM
maybe it goes like this: cap is shot, and the issue ends in a cliffhanger. Kind of like what happened to Foggy over in DD? I bet that's it. I mean, who REALLY believes that they're going to kill off Cap? I mean, REALLY.
Cap'll always be back, no doubt... by Thalya	Mar 7th, 2007 09:37:42 AM
It's just that Marvel's being rather lame about the execution from the sounds of it (pun definitely intended).
Psy is right about the chuunin by Shigeru	Mar 7th, 2007 09:38:36 AM
Those 100 dudes getting beat up by the Chuck Norris aren't really ninjas. More like apprentice-wannabe-ninjas-in-t raining. A true Ninja would leave Chuck face down dead in his bowl of corn flakes before you knew he was there. I love ninjas with all of my body (including my pee pee)
Services will be held at the Pub.... by GreatA'Tuin	Mar 7th, 2007 10:26:07 AM
I don't know if Steve was Irish or not, but I'm going to hold a wake for him anyway. I expect Matt and Foggy will be there, Pete, Ben, Hank, Logan will probably be there seeing as there's free beer to be had. Any contributions to the Ammo fund can be left with Frank at the door, though he may not stay the whole time. Franks got some "business" to take care of. Some place called the House of Ideas. It's in New York, so it's sure to be full of the dregs of humanity. Turtle stubbles off to have another drink. "...NO WE'LL NEVER...SEE THE LIKE...OF YOU....AGAIN..."
It's not like it matters anyway....SPOILER by Psynapse	Mar 7th, 2007 10:50:04 AM
Because A) Death in comics is less permanent than the cheesiest soap opera on TV and 2) Cap was actually dead at the start of CW already. This clone made from vaginal tissue doesn't really count.
SPOILERS by Thalya	Mar 7th, 2007 11:13:53 AM
Marvel has to have their heads so far up their ass on this. They're doing such a major publicity grab on this, but the people who actually pick up the comic expecting Cap to die valiantly are gonna see him go out like a punk and go WDF?! (that's "What da fug?!" for those out there who don't speak Bendisese) Marvel isn't going to win brownie points for this in the long run. At least when Superman kicked it, he went out valiantly, taking down the one opponent only he could take out.
Props to chrth by Squashua	Mar 7th, 2007 11:20:41 AM
for the Tick ref.
It's funny... by GreatA'Tuin	Mar 7th, 2007 11:38:15 AM
No one came forward to defend Marvel when I derided them for having Cap arrested. That leads me to beleive that they knew it was a fucked thing to do. Now, Cap is dead (or so it has been insulted..er..insinuated) and I'd imagine more dedicated fans will probably be dropping some things from their pull list. It's like Fat Joe is trying to teach a class in shark-jumping. Clown shoes, man. Fucking lame.
What the hell is going on? by The Heathen	Mar 7th, 2007 11:38:22 AM
First off, Ninja's are awesome. Two words: NINJA VANISH!!! Vale, I'm glad you liked Pan's, we can agree on that and how it is sad (don't get emo on me though), but not about DD or NA #27. Leinil Yu I also appreciate. His art didn't seem to bother you in the Luke Cage CW NA issue did it? The worst single image I've seen in the last few months has got to be that shitty computer art in the Morrison issue of Batman that piled on the shit like a fertilizer farm… or Heroes Reborn by Liefeld or X-Men by Bachalo. Take your pick. I also liked the moment Elektra got kicked. Sue me. It's a fun superhero comic, not a David Lynch movie. Also, you're telling me you liked NA #26 because you don't know what the point was or what the hell happened in it? Hrrmmm… This Cap #25 gots me all nervous. Bad vibes man. If Bru can't pull this off, then that leaves very little for me to look forward too at Marvel and I WANT to love a lot more of their stuff. I think Thalya gets her jollies from Marvel screwing the pooch over and over. Girl must be super happy! ; )
Let's look at that quote... by Thalya	Mar 7th, 2007 11:52:44 AM
"I think Thalya gets her jollies from Marvel screwing the pooch over and over. Girl must be super happy! ; )" Guess that makes me the pooch? Ooh baby, do it again! But really, I'm just happy I never fell for Marvel's shit. I fell for DC, but that's a happy geekgasmic relationship, not without its ups and downs mind you, but I'm in for the long haul there.
"ups and downs" by Shigeru	Mar 7th, 2007 11:58:51 AM
Actually now that I think about it... Thalya, you bashing Marvel this bad (rightfully so) isn't terribly fair. You admittedly read only DC books, right? You're not getting screwed over by Marvel in the slightest. I read some Marvel books (Ult Spidey, Ast X-Men, Spidey Luvs MJ, Runaways) that are fantastic. There's good and bad. The "ups and downs" you talked about regarding DC. Let's not be so black & white, huh? (props to Buzz)
Chuuin, eh? That Explains The Chuck Norris Thing. by Buzz Maverik	Mar 7th, 2007 12:17:08 PM
I have a feeling that I may have been in the same grrr-grindhouse as QT. Wonder if he ever saw movies at the decrepit, former Jerry Lewis Twin Cinema (Jerry invented the multiplex:"Hey lay-dee! Nice lay-dee!") that must became known as the Twin Cinemas. This is like, junior high, stoned of course, we go to see Chuck in THE OCTAGON. That was the first time I ever heard of ninjas, although I think Pa Maverik might have killed off a couple of clans-full back in Dubya-Dubya-Eye-Eye-The-Big-'U n. First, we cracked up because Chuck drank Perrier or something and his sidekick drank milk with dinner. As adults beyond carding age, they owed it to us to be ordering alcohol! Then, came the Ninja fight. Chuck faces a line up of ninjas. He takes a step toward them. They back up! Back up! Like, eight or nine guys. We're shouting advice to the ninjas, rooting for the ninjas:"Gang up on his ass!" "Some of y' hold him down while the others hit him!" Then, another cadre of stoners, who are rooting for Chuck, start yelling at us. We shut up because maybe we can get some weed from them if we don't piss 'em off...
How does he stand it? by GreatA'Tuin	Mar 7th, 2007 12:19:31 PM
Do you guys think that Brubaker has like a secret compartment in his closet where he keeps his Joey Q, Bald Moron, and Limey Fuck voodoo dolls and just dreams of the day when someone realizes that he's the only one that "get's it"? I think that might be the only way he can sleep at night. Well, that and the booze and blow. Can't forget the booze and blow. Hookers too maybe. Esecially after this bullshit.
Then I'll bash (THE FUCK) out of Marvel... by Psynapse	Mar 7th, 2007 12:21:18 PM
They've gotten literally thousands of dollars from me over the years. (we're talking since 1976 here folks). And I've watched the company morph from 'The House of Ideas' to 'The House of Hype'. And JOeQ is bigger huckster than Stan EVER was. I used to be 'almost Marvel exclusive' for MANY years at that. The cult of celebrity that they havde tailored their universe to bores the shit out of me because I can see the snake oil from miles off. And Thalya's compare and contrast of Superman's versus Cap's death is SPOT ON. Fuck you Marvel, you took an icon and made him a little bitch. May such be returned ten-fold on ALL of their sorry asses.
Instead of Irish, I Always Thought Cap Should Be... by Buzz Maverik	Mar 7th, 2007 12:28:55 PM
...Jewish. Back when they were formulating THE TRUTH, they toyed with the idea of making him African American. I was hoping that instead of Steve Rogers, they'd make him Steve Roth, as a tribute to his creators and to his mission in World War II.
I recognize that Shig.. by Thalya	Mar 7th, 2007 12:42:51 PM
Though technically, I read "only DC, not Marvel of the Big Two", as I pick up an occasional indie as I wade into those waters. But I do think I'm getting remotely screwed over because once again Marvel editorial digs themselves into one giant nihilistic hole. I recognize there are good books by good writers out there on the fringe, I trust the rest of the Cogs' judgement on that, and I'd probably like them too. But for starters, before I picked up any regular DC book (I was picking up Morrison's JLA in TPB about the same time) I picked up Whedon's Astonishing X-Men for the first arc (even got a signed #1 Director's Cut by the guy). I knew most of these characters already from what I saw of them on that early 90s animation, though I didn't have much of an idea about backstory. I was essentially primed to delve into the whole Marvel Universe to learn more, I knew that I'd start to want to learn more about different characters as I encountered them in other characters' backstories and all (and that attitude lead me into that DC universe-spanning fanfic I'm working on). But then I saw how Marvel was being so dismissive of the characters and continuity (and that was in direct opposition to what I saw from a DC convention panel on the very same day) that I realized it wasn't going to be a good mesh for me, at least as long as editorial was like that. I think I happened to like and identify more with characters like the X-Men when I first started out, but I don't feel like reading about them right now seems like a good investment because 1) I'm limited to books that are somewhat outside the long grasp of universe-spanning editorial, 2) how long is it going to be before editorial turns its eye on those books? I don't trust 'em, therefore I'm not going to get involved. And honestly, Astonishing, while good, didn't Wow me, and I felt like I had to know insane amounts of back history in order to get all the obscure homages going on, etc.. I know it can be like that for a number of different books from all companies, but it just turned me off there for some reason.
Thayla… by The Heathen	Mar 7th, 2007 01:11:40 PM
~~ you will give me the signed copy of the AXM Director's Cut ~~ Did it work? No? Crap. Can't fault you for those reasons. There are bright corners in the Marvel U, but not as much as there should and could be. DC, they have a lot of crap and missed opportunities too (Nightwing, Robin, Shadowpact, etc.) but I don't think that they all out demolish their shit like Marvels been doing for well over a decade. I dunno, when it all comes down to it I love both of the big two's characters and universes and want nothing but the best for their creators and stories. Unfortunately that's not always the case.
True true Thalya... by Psynapse	Mar 7th, 2007 01:15:12 PM
AXM is my wet dream come true given the LOVE I have for the X-Men. Civil War is WORST NIGHTMARE given the love I really do have for the Marvel U. And may I ask WHY Reed Richards is not up on negligent homicide charges? Oh wait, that's right, he was so good at sucking fascist government cock that everyone just looked the other way. Injection of realism MY ASS.
With Cap #25 is Bru OFFICIALLY… by The Heathen	Mar 7th, 2007 01:21:41 PM
the guy who kills and brings back characters? He brought back: BUCKY D'KEN D'KENs SISTER (whatever her name is) He killed: BANSHEE JACK MONROE STEVE ROGERS He killed AND brought back: RED SKULL FOGGY NELSON That's all in the past few years too.
I'm with Shig here by El Vale	Mar 7th, 2007 01:25:12 PM
I mean Thal, why do you care? You probably already exlpained it but it went over my head. If this was a DC character getting bitch slapped by editorial, i'd totally get your vitriolic reaction. But it's Captain America. Those guys were probably sitting in a room a year ago trying to figure out how to make people care about the character again, and this is the only thing they could come up with. If you're a big fan of the character, tough fucking break; these are the people running the show now and that means you probably shouldn't take the whole thing so seriously cause you're clearly putting yourself in harm's way. And blaming Al Quesada ONE MORE TIME because he wants more media attention and money? This shouldn't be surprising in the least! Nothing is sacred. That sid, here's Brubaker on (not) killing Foggy Nelson: "how could i kill Foggy? He's the heart of the book!" So the man gets it...let's just read the book and see what happens.
Well Heath by El Vale	Mar 7th, 2007 01:31:26 PM
He didn't actually kill Foggy, i mean he said it himself...the clues were all there. Didn't that issue end with Matt saying he could still hear his heartbeat? There's a difference between killing and bringing back and making you think the character's dead and then revealing he actually wasn't.
T, I see your point by Shigeru	Mar 7th, 2007 01:41:39 PM
And Psy, you have every right to Bitch with a capital B! Being longtime fans of these characters and seeing them treated this way...well, it's not a good feeling. T, it just is kind of weird to me, because it seems like you endlessly tear down Marvel and endlessly praise DC. Like whenever Didio comes out with a new press release or a new JLA cover is released (??oookay??) you are all over it. There are probably long-time DC fans that said the things we are saying about CW about Infinite Crisis, right? I dunno...does anybody get what I'm saying here? I guess it doesn't help that my interest in "continuity" pretty much starts and stops with characterization.
She cares because.. by Psynapse	Mar 7th, 2007 01:44:59 PM
A) Quite a few of us(that are her friends) care and have a right to (!THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS!) and 2) it's hack writing which offends any serious writer.
Besides, haven't you heard? by Psynapse	Mar 7th, 2007 01:47:44 PM
All the cool kids are doing it.
Ehh, kind of… by The Heathen	Mar 7th, 2007 01:47:59 PM
When reading that as a monthly, you didn't 'really' know Foggy was alive until his issue with the ninjas you hated. ; ) In comics I don't think there is as much of a difference as there would be in something else where characters die. In comics you can make up whatever. A year from now they could be like, "Steve Rogers never died, it was a clone. The real Steve Rogers was rescued by Tony Stark who felt bad about being a dick and stuff and blah, blah…" And as far as Bru getting it? Yeah, I think he does too (a lot more than Millar or Bendis), BUT we're talking about Captain America and not Daredevil which you've said you haven't liked since Bru took over. Also, he said that thing about Foggy after it was revealed that he wasn't dead, which is just smart to say. Sure the clues are all there, but apparently Marv Wolfman left a bunch of clues about how to bring back Barry Allen in the original Crisis. It's comics! It's just that this seems like one time too many that Bru has done this with a character and it's cheap on Marvels end. There's a right and wrong way to get publicity. I think they've done good with the Dark Tower series so far, but this whole CW and Cap thing has been horse shit. Story and content first, then money and marketing. Because what's the point of making money if all you're doing is selling shit? Would you out out your OGN if it sucked? I'd think not. Hey, at least we both hate Denny's right? ; )
El Foggy Psy by Shigeru	Mar 7th, 2007 01:49:45 PM
Foggy: after I read that issue I knew he wasn't dead and didn't even know I was supposed to think he was dead. He could still hear his heartbeat. Vale: "why do you care?" is a good point. Psy: you tried to answer that question but I mean... #1 she feels bad for her friends that don't like it? Uh what? and #2 bad writing offends a serious writer? Then why isn't T bitching every week about the umpteenth terrible Witchblade/Lady Death book out? Plus I'm not sure I buy that argument anyways. Do you think Speilberg sits up at night worrying about White Chicks? I'm not trying to pick on Kate here, I just thought it was interesting.
Wait, Vale, I call bullshit. by GreatA'Tuin	Mar 7th, 2007 01:52:23 PM
No, no, no. You don't get to write this off like that. This isn't Blue Beetle dying here. This fucking Steve Captain America Rogers. He is not some forgotten character that everyone pitys(pitties?). He IS the Avengers. He's the example of how great America CAN be. He's the perennial good guy. He is the self sacrificing martyr that just so happened to be kick-ass enough to ride back from the sunset too. Hell, I'm so pissed about him GIVING UP AND LETTING HIMSELF GET ARRESTED that death is like sweet release at this point. So...no, this one doesn't get a pass. I'm sick of Fatty, Baldy and Limey thinking that they OWN these chracters and that they can disregard them to tell their fucking stories. That's it. I'm sorry Joss. Ed, I'm sure DC would love another Catwoman run from you. Any other guys who I am sadly not going to get to enjoy because of this. I truly apologize, but I cannot buy your books anymore. I am boycotting Marvel. I don't know what I want from them, well other than the mullets tights and song and dance shows, but I won't be giving Marvel COMICS any money any time soon. I specify COMICS because I won't let Fat Joe ruin SM3 or Ultimate Alliance for me. He had nothing to do with their kickassery, and therefore they get none of the blame for his bullshit. Flame on, fuckers. Defend this shit.
Turtle by Shigeru	Mar 7th, 2007 01:55:47 PM
Don't punish quality books with low sales (runaways, SMLMJ) because Marvel fucked up! Vote with your wallet!
Whatever by Psynapse	Mar 7th, 2007 01:58:22 PM
..........
Why Should You Care? by Buzz Maverik	Mar 7th, 2007 02:00:11 PM
Well, why should you read comics at all? Good storytelling and good characterization matter. Continuity doesn't matter until the new fan has been a fan long enough to see the stories they love get trashed (anybody reading DAREDEVIL lately; the Bendii who eschew any non-BMB continuity are going nuts now that this is happening to the works of their god). Don't just blindly accept that the guys running the comic companies and making the comics are doing what they do because they are the best and they know best. What they may be best at is GETTING the fucking job, rather than DOING the fucking job. You've all read comics long enough now to be able to spot their sub-demographic (and this isn't the focus: smart publishers want EVERYONE to read, love and buy their books): but Marvel editorial loves the Addict. The Addict has passed the fickle New Fan stage. The Addict or the Marvel Zombie buys, reads, loves and worships each Marvel book and "CRE-A-TAH" because of Marvel. Marvel is waaay more about the fan's self image than DC. The reason it is particuarily stupid to cater to this specific type of fan at the expense of the others is that doing so it neither a financial nor artistic decision (either of which I can respect) but that current Marvel editorial and staff just loves having their asses kissed. Who doesn't? But I'd rather be doing work I could be proud of and making several times the money WHILE getting my ass kissed.
no! by Shigeru	Mar 7th, 2007 02:00:45 PM
stay and play, Psy! you can call me a douche nozzle and everything! don't go away!
Vale, I care... by Thalya	Mar 7th, 2007 02:01:10 PM
..because I could very well get into that book, but regularly getting it goes against my principles of not endorsing an editorial regime, that favors self-promotion over story and character, which I do not respect. If you compare Marvel's mass-media hype machine ("Look everybody! We just offed Captain America, one of our biggest heroes and the hero which stands for the hopes and dreams of the little guy everywhere (that would be you), and made sure he went out like the punk he is 'cause we know better than you. Don't you just love us?") vs DC's ("Look! We're diverse now! We've got a lipstick lesbian Batwoman! Whoops! You missed her? That's 'cause we buried her after all that hype surrounding 52 #11! Move along now, Warner's made us put out that press release, we have late books to finish putting out (it's called quality control! We'll bend over backwards to make sure you get the best written versions of these characters so long as they aren't named Batgirl!)."), well...
And Shig, on that JLA cover.. by Thalya	Mar 7th, 2007 02:04:28 PM
I'm not sure I mentioned it, but that dude we're interviewing, Eric Wight? He designed it.
too many parentheses by Shigeru	Mar 7th, 2007 02:06:15 PM
.
Sorry Shig by GreatA'Tuin	Mar 7th, 2007 02:07:27 PM
But my problem is with the management here. I don't want Joe, Bald and Limey to run Marvel anymore. Since they have their hands in every-fucking-thing, that means I have to not buy every-fucking-thing. I have to hope that good will outlast shit in this, but if those books die and Joe gets fired for it, I call that a victory. I'm sorry, but I'm fed up with it. Shit, even Turtlette (who can recite the history of the X-Men in her sleep) is telling me to stop buying shit that just pisses me off. It's affecting my psyche. My head bones hurt. I have many head bones and they are all trying to leave my skull pointy side out. So, yeah. Rant over. Sorry to SMLMJ and Runaways, but let's just hope that your deaths are not in vain.
He designed it? by Shigeru	Mar 7th, 2007 02:10:34 PM
I thought he just drew a portion (one of the background panels) of it? Good for him... mainstream work pays the bills! Final thoughts: can't we just read quality books, no matter who puts them out? Indie publishers have put out indie books that I thought were UTTER SHITE but I don't ban the whole friggin publisher from my pull list. Can't we not worry about DC vs. M?
Sorry Shig... by Psynapse	Mar 7th, 2007 02:14:44 PM
After choking down $221 in unplanned car repairs yesterday and now seeing Marvel give me (and every other person like me, who has filled their coffers repeatedly but feels quite dismissed and shit upon by the editorial direction of the last several years) the finger YET AGAIN, well, let's just say god help any fucker that cuts me off on the way home today. GOD. HELP. THEM.
I sincerely doubt Fatty, Baldy and Limey by Shigeru	Mar 7th, 2007 02:17:48 PM
have their hands in Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane. Other than Fatty's name being on one of the pages. He probably doesn't even know Marvel publishes that book. If that book dies, the only message it sends to JoeQ is to keep publishing GIANT CROSSOVER PREFAB SHIT. If that book reached the top 10, on the other hand... we might see change! And mind you, I like Powers and The Ultimates, so Baldy and Limey are hit or miss with me.
Not in this case, Shig by GreatA'Tuin	Mar 7th, 2007 02:18:47 PM
The problem here is that the books are UTTER SHITE because of the publisher. Rather the people who are "editing" the books for the publisher. This isn't a M vs. DC thing. I havn't mentioned my disdain for the "new" Flash since InfC. The difference is that it's not the fault of the publisher that that shit is bad. That's just bad writing. This bullshit...this isn't even Brubaker's fault. I whole heartedly beleive that this was handed down from Emporer Fatass himself.
The problem is the shared universe, Shig.. by Thalya	Mar 7th, 2007 02:18:59 PM
I'm not sure you can say the same for indie companies. I like order and things that make sense (it's why I married Calculator dammit) because then more books are accessible to me and others. Isn't that what all companies ultimately want? Right now Marvel's being very nihilistic with their characters and not thinking about the long-term, so I don't see reason to give them a chance to have me for the long-term. Nope, he did both a background panel and the design. And no, that's not too many parentheses (you're talking to a math major moreover - I coulda used brackets and curly brackets had I gone beyond two layers!).
That is bullshit by El Vale	Mar 7th, 2007 02:19:49 PM
Your principles of not endorsing an editorial regime that favors self-promotion over story and character? I don't buy it. I don't buy it because it's not black & white like that, but you're still sending out a message saying it is. Like Shig said, you vote with your wallet and you could still tell these people what you want to read and what you definitely don't want to read every goddamn month. Because Marvel publishes some wonderful stuff, but as long as you keep trying to punish them for the stuff they get wrong, you're actually cancelling yourself out. That and you're missing out on some great comics. And Turtle, yes i do get to. Because that's how i feel and you don't get to tell me what to do. I'm sorry if i don't care enough to get pissed at some fat guys becuase they messed up a fictional character.
Let us all remember i'm full of shit by El Vale	Mar 7th, 2007 02:21:43 PM
I do not endorse Marvel in any way since i get all their comics for free.
So... by Psynapse	Mar 7th, 2007 02:26:26 PM
You openly mock the opinions of those of us who DO shell out our hard earned cash? Huh.......
Futherfucking WORD Shig! by El Vale	Mar 7th, 2007 02:27:20 PM
Shig and i are trying to make the same point, apparently. I mean you people, i'm sorry...you people are completely deranged. You're sending out the wrong message and you're gearing up towards an aneurism while you're at it. Not healthy.
hmmm by Shigeru	Mar 7th, 2007 02:27:56 PM
"I'm not sure you can say the same for indie companies. I like order and things that make sense (it's why I married Calculator dammit) because then more books are accessible to me and others. Isn't that what all companies ultimately want?" I think this is fairly contradictory. Continuity and accessibility um, go apart? in tandem? There is a math term for this that I'm not remembering. My point is a shared universe and crossover continuity obviously can be a good thing, but I think it makes things MORE inaccessible. If I pick up a random book off the stands and it ties into 6 other books I'm gonna say "EFF that" and put it down. Besides, SMLMJ and Runaways and A X-Men pretty much aren't in the Marvel Universe proper and are standalone.
Speaking of cutting off… by The Heathen	Mar 7th, 2007 02:30:03 PM
someone nearly killed me because they 'half-way' ran a red light at a four way cross last night. I slammed my breaks and stopped right before hitting them to my right. I looked over at the guy and screamed like a Spartan, "FUUUUUUCKKKK!!!" I swear, I thought my latent mutant power was about to come to become active and then I honked at him again, to which of course he got offended because he doesn't like being reminded of his dumb ass driving skills. But regarding comics and cutting off? I gotta support creators of books like Runaways and Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane or Franklin Richards. Those peeps deserve our support. So does AXM. But fuck all that Punisher: War Journal shit and what not. I've actually cut down my comics almost by half in the past year because of editorial BS and shitty titles from all publishers.
Naw, Vale... by Shigeru	Mar 7th, 2007 02:30:45 PM
I don't think they're deranged! I think they have a right to be angry! I'm angry too! I'm just splitting hairs here for the sake of All-Weeking and having an interesting TB!
That's just it, Shig by GreatA'Tuin	Mar 7th, 2007 02:31:16 PM
I liked Powers too. Hell, I dug some of the DD run, and I SOLD USM OUT every goddamned month when I worked at the bookstore. I made SURE that parents took a copy of that book home in the early stages. But that was different. That was before Bendis got the stokre and Joey decided he didn't need to do his GODDAMNED JOB anymore. Well, except to make sure NO ONE had a fucking smoke in one of HIS books. If SMLMJ make the Top 10 then Joe Q is credited for editing good books. If it, along with EVERY OTHER BOOK that I'm boycotting fails, Joe gets fired. Hopefully publicly. Then he and Baldy can go and make their edgy comics in the Garfield universe for all I give a shit. Hell, I may ever pick one or two up. I can see it now. Odie would come out of the closet and reveal that it's all cause Jon "touched" him as a puppy. Oh, and Garfield would swear off lasagna because: "If I can get one kid to not pick up a pizza slice, I've done my job"
Yes i do Psy by El Vale	Mar 7th, 2007 02:34:45 PM
But i'm right. No, wait...mock? When did i mock your opinions? I fucking disagree with you and now i'm mocking you? Okay... But we all know i would vote with my wallet if i could. It's just impossible for me to do so since there isn't a comic book store to be found in this country. Does that mean i don't have a say on the subject? Well ouch.
lol garfield by Shigeru	Mar 7th, 2007 02:36:48 PM
screamed like a Spartan, "FUUUUUUCKKKK!!!" This TB is made of win! Turtle: JoeyQ is not going to get fired because of a boycott. I think you're going about it in the wrong way. For example: I want to see less mainstream crap and more indie movies. So instead of spending all my time and resources picketing mainstream crap, I instead champion the little guy.
Vale by Shigeru	Mar 7th, 2007 02:39:34 PM
amazon.com ships to Colombia. M I RITE?
Yes they are deranged by El Vale	Mar 7th, 2007 02:40:16 PM
Because they're so angry they're telling me i don't get to say the things i'm saying and they think i'm mocking their opinions when it's pretty clear i'm not. And i'm not gonna sit here and take that shit.
Yes they do Shig by El Vale	Mar 7th, 2007 02:45:12 PM
Maybe you can help me with international shipping costs? That'd be great. Thanks for judging me like that, BTW, i really appreciate it. My uncle is in the states for a business trip right now so i took the oportunity to give him some money so he could buy me a couple trades. I do that every time i can, thanks for asking.
Vale by GreatA'Tuin	Mar 7th, 2007 02:45:56 PM
Dude, of course you have a say. You have a say because you're involved enough to come to a message board and bitch. But let's get one thing straight. You're arguing with me. Therefore you can't possible be right. That's just fucking crazy talk. All sillyness aside, I'm not telling you what to do any more than you're doing the same to me. You told me, and people who care as much as I do (That's not a slight on you. I admit that I'm a "Geek-shit-junkie") that "If you're a big fan of the character, tough fucking break" and that we should relax. Well, and with all due respect to our fine kick-ass Colombian Cog Contingent, Fuck that noise. I love comics. I have ever since I stole my first one. (Relax Buzz, I ain't stealing your gimmick) I haven't liked every bok that's come out since then. I certainly haven't liked every writer. (Dixon, I'm looking at you, fuckball) But at least I was sure that they gave a shit about the same things I gave a shit about. That being comics. I don't think Joey da Q, or Bald Moron even like comics anymore. I think they want to be in T.V. and are padding their collective resumes for NBC to look at. Fuck them, and their noise. I hope they go bankrupt and that their wives leave them for Canadians.
ok by Shigeru	Mar 7th, 2007 02:46:01 PM
let's all calm down. nobody is telling anybody they can't have opinions. disagreeing with someone in essence is telling that person that you think they are WRONG so let's understand that that doesn't mean that they kill kittens or anything. Cogs unite.
Cogs unite my ass by El Vale	Mar 7th, 2007 02:48:37 PM
Sorry i fucking spoke.
Is it something in the water? by Squashua	Mar 7th, 2007 02:50:34 PM
You all are really cranky this week. More than usual.
Vale by Shigeru	Mar 7th, 2007 02:54:46 PM
Stop being such an exposed nerve, man! If amazon.com international shipping is too expensive then just say that! I completely understand that and that really sucks, I wasn't aware that it was a deal-breaking expense. and why say "sorry I fucking spoke"? I just said that people are allowed to disagree! Disagreement is good! I just don't see a need for things to get so personal.
Not to rub it in or anything by El Vale	Mar 7th, 2007 02:55:26 PM
But we've pushed this TB into the Top 10. We fucking rule.
HELLS YES by Shigeru	Mar 7th, 2007 02:56:54 PM
we do rule. And Squash you can butt out.
Word, Shig. by The Heathen	Mar 7th, 2007 02:58:16 PM
Vale, I've said it before - I do care about these characters. If I didn't what's the point? If I didn't then maybe I could like stuff like HoM or NA #26, but I do. I kinda resent being called deranged because I care about what I read about. Pan's moved you didn't it? As did Children of Men right? Why did they get to you so much? They're just fictional stories. Get over it. See where I'm coming from? You are right about what the buyer should support. I hated CW so much that I didn't buy the last few issues. blackthought didn't buy past the second, but of course everyone else did. I'm going to support the good books and shit on the bad ones. This whole Cap thing really bothers me because I love Brubaker and his Captain America book has been great. It's managed to keep as much distance as it could from events like HoM and CW, but now? I sincerely doubt that Bru came up with this. Marvel has these creative summits where they all (and by all I mean Bendis, Millar, JMS, Joey Q) think of how they can fuck things up for the entire universe next. I'm pretty sure Bru was given the order from the powers that be. (No more Cap issues are solicited are there?) I think I can so this because I care. Question is why do you even read if you don't? Is that fair to ask?
"Mutually exclusive" 'swhat you were thinking of, Shig? by Thalya	Mar 7th, 2007 02:59:04 PM
Oddly, they're not (continuity and acessibility, that is). Picking up right in the middle of a crossover isn't the best time to start either, but.. I came in as a newb and totally expected to do my homework, that's just reality talking. I'm not saying every book has to be steeped in details that go back eons; it's better to do simpler tales that let the reader know the basics of these characters at once, but at the same time create interest in the reader as to what came before. But it makes no sense to do that homework if the guys in charge disregard all that and keep changing things up every other year. It's half-assed. These characters are more than mere fictional characters. They'll be around long after Quesada has a heart attack, Millar kicks from overly-explosive flattulence, and Bendis' baldness extends to his cilia and he chokes on his own phlegm, but these guys don't get that. I'm not going to reward them for their ignorance and at this point I'm already mostly averred to the Marvel Universe simply because of the shennanigans they've pulled. I'll take a gander once the next generation comes around. And Shig, do you honestly trust Quesada to put in a decent writer on SMLMJ once McKeever's gone?
Shig by GreatA'Tuin	Mar 7th, 2007 03:00:43 PM
I didn't say that He'd get fired because of my litle piss-ant boycott. I just hope he will. That said. I'm not buying him his next 8 course meal. That's all. That and I will bitch and moan and flame him at every turn. Here's the deal. He is editor-in-chief of Marvel Comics. Anything they put out, has his name on it. The fact that he may not even know about the book's existance is part of the fucking problem. I won't buy books with his name on it. It's pretty much that simple. Vale. Please, for the love of all things Coggy, lighten up. I'm not trying to bust your balls here. You made a comment that I disagreed with. I made a coment saying as much, in the hopes the you and I could dicuss it. We've been doing that. Yes, we insult each other. We're smart-asses. It's what we do. It's one of the reasons that we talk so much here and in the mansion. We find each other funny, intelligent, and engaging. I don't take what you say to me as a personal attack because I know you're just speaking your mind and that you don't hate me. Please do me the favor of treating my comments the same way.
I'm calmer now...but by El Vale	Mar 7th, 2007 03:01:00 PM
It did get personal. I was told i shouldn't have an opinion because of things that absolutely escape me, and then i was called a hypocrite because obviously i could not go out ever so i can afford to buy stuff from Amazon and have it shipped here. I'm sorry but that's just not right.
WHAT FUCKING 'MESSAGE' AM I 'SENDING'?? by Psynapse	Mar 7th, 2007 03:01:44 PM
I haven't said a fucking thing except express my own displeasure. YOU are the one who started a post declaring someone else's feelings as bullshit. "Oh but that's not mockery, that' disagreement." BULLSHIT.
Let me simplify it: by Psynapse	Mar 7th, 2007 03:03:15 PM
You can dish it out but you can't take it. 'NUFF SAID.
But, T... by Shigeru	Mar 7th, 2007 03:08:17 PM
I hated homework. ^_^ and I don't know if Calculator will be around in 50 years... I mean, come on. Vale: I did not call you a hypocrite nor did I imply it. You are not a hypocrite. Turtle: I still disagree but I see your point.
After all... by Psynapse	Mar 7th, 2007 03:08:30 PM
WHICH one of us was asking another 'WHY' they had an opinion again? Okay then.......
Wow, so much anger in here ... can I join? by chrth	Mar 7th, 2007 03:10:06 PM
FUCK YOU MARVEL FOR CANCELLING NEXTWAVE THE GREATEST FUCKING BOOK IN THE FUCKING MILLENIUM I HOPE YOU ALL CHOKE TO DEATH ON YOUR REGURGITATED STORYLINES AND CROSSOVERS, YOU FUCKERS!
Heath by El Vale	Mar 7th, 2007 03:17:05 PM
I didn't call you deranged for loving these characters. I called some people deranged because i was being attacked personally simply because i don't care all that much. I think your argument for caring for fictional characters falls just short of making sense. When a writer or a director makes me care about a fictional character and it really gets to me...that is the reason i read comics or watch movies. Because those guys did their jobs...they set out to make me care and they did. But this whole Cap/Civil War thing goes against that, because it's not what's intended of me. What's intended is that i pay money and make them rich. If the argument was somehow about the actual fiction and not the reality of it, you wouldn't be mad at Joe Q, you'd be mad at the guy who shot Cap, am i right? I take it none of us has read the book in question? This is you against the people behind the fictional character, and that's where it goes beyond everyone's grasp.
Well, who honestly knows on Calc? by Thalya	Mar 7th, 2007 03:17:34 PM
If nothing else he'll happily ever after in my fanfic.. (besides, he got a total revamp in Identity Crisis and everyone loved it! And he'd been around 30 years at that point, moreover) He's no instantly-recognizable-the-wor ld-over big gun though..
No by El Vale	Mar 7th, 2007 03:22:52 PM
I didn't tell anyone what to think, and with Thal i believe i asked a question. Why do you care? She gave me a reason for caring...i disagreed. My choice in words was "Bullshit", but isn't that how we talk around here? A long time ago we decided it wasn't necessary to dish out the old "in my opinion" and try to be nice when a friendly fuck you would be much more effective. And yet no one thought to ASK me anything. So go ahead, ask me. dish it out but can't take it? Fuck you.
Shig by El Vale	Mar 7th, 2007 03:26:07 PM
Okay, cool, i'm sorry i lashed out. But can you see why i'd read it that way?
Wassamatta I hit a nerve? by Psynapse	Mar 7th, 2007 03:33:44 PM
Truth hurts don't it? Tell you what, you cut out the passive/aggressive bullshit and I'll quit calling you on it.
HEY! You know what I DO like? by GreatA'Tuin	Mar 7th, 2007 03:35:38 PM
Tits
Blah blah blah by El Vale	Mar 7th, 2007 03:39:12 PM
If whatever you say counts as the truth, then yeah maybe it stings a little. Go bother someone else, i already care more than i should.
yeah by Shigeru	Mar 7th, 2007 03:39:28 PM
i can see that, Vale. It's gotta suck not being able to get any comics... I take it for granted.
CHRTH!!! by The Heathen	Mar 7th, 2007 03:40:04 PM
Ha! Awesome timing. Hey, what happened in the last minute of this weeks Heroes? "f the argument was somehow about the actual fiction and not the reality of it, you wouldn't be mad at Joe Q, you'd be mad at the guy who shot Cap" Vale, I see what you mean about being mad at the creators instead of the person who pulled the trigger in the actual book, but isn't that admitting that Marvel isn't doing their job in regard to their characters? I find that interesting the way you phrased that. And hey, we love ya guy, but quit saying you've calmed down and then jump into the next heated debate. Oh, who am I kidding? Fuck you. ; ) jk.
You know by El Vale	Mar 7th, 2007 03:43:48 PM
If comics publishers were being more proactive with the whole comics downloading issue, i think my vote would count. At least i'd be a number, a statistic and my choice in downloads would send a message, much like it does with music downloading. In that sense, there'd be nary a difference between "This is what i want to buy" and "This is what i want to read". Oh well, maybe some day.
I can't wait to get to the shop this weekend.. by Thalya	Mar 7th, 2007 03:51:12 PM
Helmet of Fate: Zauriel comes out today! Zauriel's the character that got me reading Morrison's JLA in the first place. Back then I was just hunting for an image (which I never found) but look what it turned into!
Not to be all schoolyard by Psynapse	Mar 7th, 2007 03:54:14 PM
But you did start this. Like I said, you can dish it out but you can't handle it when someone responds in kind. Now quit being such a fucking pussy.
I WAS calm, Heath by El Vale	Mar 7th, 2007 03:57:00 PM
But they pull me back in. Just for the record, i never said Thal wasn't entitled to an opinion, i was geniunely curious that she'd care so much. If it came out wrong, i apologize. I meant to have a debate with Lady C, but then it just stopped. It was supposed to go something like this: "That is BULLSHIT!" "No YOU are full of shit Vale" "Oh yeah? Bring it" *Intelligent conversation ensues (hopefully)* I didn't mean bullshit as in shut up, you don't count. And about fictional characters in general...when someone gets those characters just right and makes you feel for them, the people involved did their jobs and it just pulls you right in. Suddenly this character means something to you and the image of the writter sitting behind his computer writing him/her starts to blur and fade out. Good fiction. When someone gets the character so wrong you actually start to hate said person, it pulls you out. You can see the strings and that fucking sucks. I just don't know if i believe in being genuinely angry, but i can see how you guys would and that's really cool. If you can love it, it can affect you and make you angry. It's what feeling passionetly about something is all about right?
Oh Psy by El Vale	Mar 7th, 2007 04:03:32 PM
Let's just stop, seriously. I don't agree with you, the reason i can't take it is...i didn't dish it out in the first place. Sorry that's how you percieve it. I never told anyone they couldn't have an opinion, so when i was told i couldn't have one, i responded the way EYE would respond. But i think we've all had enough of that.
This Is Madness...! by buster00	Mar 7th, 2007 04:13:32 PM
THIS...IS...SPARTA!!
Whatever..I'm out by Psynapse	Mar 7th, 2007 04:16:50 PM
........
Vale.. by Thalya	Mar 7th, 2007 04:18:23 PM
I was working on a response, but it got pushed aside because I was taking too long and I wound up replying to Shig instead. But I did save this bit: You've seen how deeply I've embraced the DCU, all the kinds of obscurities and stuff in there, right? I don't just pick and choose, I'm all or nothing. I don't doubt I'm missing some good stories. I don't doubt that Brubaker may be a genius, but no writer can go against editorial edict, look how it's crept into Captain America just now. Marvel editorial has demonstrated that they'll flat out use any character that suits their whim, even if it flies in the face of characterization. I just don't want my emotions regarding my escapism played with to the extent where these guys aren't playing fair. What's the point of fantasy if you can't believe in it?
crap… by The Heathen	Mar 7th, 2007 04:19:33 PM
I had some long post about digital distribution being stoopid and Da Q and Axel hating you Vale because you live in your Mom's basement like the other 199 people on the internets that they've broken in half.
Hey H.. by Thalya	Mar 7th, 2007 04:32:31 PM
'Cause you were interested, did you see that link I posted up above about that one fanfic page with the 4 things going on all at once? It's just the design and not the words, but.. (reposted so no need to scroll: http://tinyurl.com/3b2cm6)
T… by The Heathen	Mar 7th, 2007 04:45:14 PM
I like it. Diagonal lines are always good.
:D by Thalya	Mar 7th, 2007 04:54:24 PM
I'm growing with each page, I am. :)
So what happened to that post Heath? by El Vale	Mar 7th, 2007 04:56:49 PM
Thal, i agree with you...that said, there are healthy and non healthy ways of believing in fantasy, we all know that. Glad you responded, that's the way it should be.
"what happened in the last minute of this weeks Heroes? by chrth	Mar 7th, 2007 05:02:57 PM
Peter got a haircut.
Guys Like You Cogs Should Run Marvel by Buzz Maverik	Mar 7th, 2007 05:11:04 PM
I see more care about the characters and the stories in this talkback than I do in the books Marvel puts out. That doesn't mean characters wouldn't die or there wouldn't be big changes, but I'll bet they'd be where the stories and characters lead, rather than the shock value. "Heh, heh, heh, let's kill Captain America. Let's get rid of the mutants." That shock shit is easy storytelling, which means it is without art. The first time I encountered it was in the original ALPHA FLIGHT when Byrne had Guardian blow up. All I could picture was him saying,"Who would they least expect me to kill?" The answer is Guardian. Yes, unmask Spider-Man but make it a logical extension of Peter Parker's life (CW apologists will here insist that it was; they are dismissed). Killing a major character is a little more iffy because they have to realize they are working within a form. Serialized storytelling. It has rules like haiku. Yes, rules can be broken but see how it fucks things up. Hell, you knew that Dr. Gray wasn't going to drown on GRAY'S ANATOMY...I mean that Clea would be rescued from the Realm of the Aqua Nymphs by Dr. Stange and Namor in THE DEFENDERS. Nah, what's wrong with Marvel is that decisions are made based on ego over art and commerce.
Cap by dregmobile	Mar 7th, 2007 05:39:34 PM
I'm not happy with this at all. A very, very sour taste in my mouth now. Pisses me off that CNN blow the lid on this before I even pick up the issue. Hopefully it'll read good. And hopefully they'll bring him back soon. I wonder if they will actually get Punisher to dress up as Cap, though? That'd be interesting. Good luck with the Helmet of Fate, Thalya. Zauriel is great character, let us know if it works or not. And who knew we could get such a high post count so late in the week without loodabagel's repeat posting? Awesome!
Oh, That Guy Said Something About Your Mom. by Buzz Maverik	Mar 7th, 2007 05:40:32 PM
It's okay, though. I told him you gave him the finger.
Now you know by El Vale	Mar 7th, 2007 05:48:27 PM
All it takes is Cap dying and the Cogs bickering like crazy. I mean you could blame me, but then you wouldn't have such a high post count. Yay, go me.
We're no. 1? Sweet. by Psynapse	Mar 7th, 2007 05:55:32 PM
Just please accept my sincerest apologies Vale. Sometimes I am incapable of not seeing red. Thank god for weed (and friends who front your broke ass).
I swear I just found this (and now claim it as my own) by Psynapse	Mar 7th, 2007 06:05:21 PM
Found while trolling Cafepress for Buffy crap: "Sometimes I shouldn't say words." Amen.
Wait....Did Buzz say... by GreatA'Tuin	Mar 7th, 2007 06:07:12 PM
...that we Cogs should run Marvel? SWEET! I'm doing a mini on Bulseye that doesn't treat him like a douche!
AND... by GreatA'Tuin	Mar 7th, 2007 06:08:15 PM
one that spells his name right. Blah, blah, Edit Feature, this bitch, blah, blah.
Psy by El Vale	Mar 7th, 2007 06:10:33 PM
Dude YOU'RE incapable of not seeing red? I'm like the king of not being able to not see red! It's all good cause we carried this fucking TB to the TOP baby! Let's hug it out.
Vale: mwah baby! by Psynapse	Mar 7th, 2007 06:42:09 PM
Seriously this is why weed is necessary for some of us. Instant objectivity and repair of your sense of humor, yo.
To Hell With That by Barron34	Mar 7th, 2007 06:52:59 PM
Civil War was an interesting idea, but Peter Parker unmasking was just stupid, and killing Captain America is unforgivable. By the way, I no longer buy comics, but wait until the trade compilations come out, since my city library buys them. Quesada and Marvel are screwing up by creating what amounts to a bunch of publicity stunts. I will not buy Marvel under this regime. Poor Joe Simon, co-creator of Captain America with the late Jack Kirby, was quoted to the effect that "we need Captain America now more than ever". He is completely right. The poor old guy is in his nineties, and he has to spend the twilight of his life witnessing the murder (figuratively and literally) of the iconic American character he created. This is bullshit. I am sick of the stunts that these current Marvel people are pulling to gain attention and boost circulation. I understand that comcis is a business, and they need to sell books, but the way to do that is through high quality and authentic story-telling, not bullshit stunts which are offensive to long-standing fans. I learned to read by reading Marvel comics. One of my strongest early memories is sitting on the floor of my family's living room, reading an old copy of The Avengers. Captain America was a fictional role model for kids. Quesada and his people are tampering with beloved icons. Civil War was an exciting concept, to the point where I was considering buying some of the comics. Now, with this offensive publicity stunt, I am certain not to buy any marvel comcis for quite some time. Good work alienating old school fans and the smarter younger fans. Marvel has dropped the ball.
Stoked about tonight's Lost? by El Vale	Mar 7th, 2007 07:04:05 PM
Me too.
Me three. by The Heathen	Mar 7th, 2007 07:51:15 PM
Vale! You quoted Ari Gold. Awesome. As for that other post, my computer f'd up and it was lost, but I basically gave you the simple version earlier - Digital distribution is for the birds and Joey Q wants to eat your future baby. The Cogs would love to run Marvel. I honestly agree with Buzz (thank you for the compliment btw) that we'd do a better job than the current powers that be because of the reasons he stated. Of course… "That doesn't mean characters wouldn't die or there wouldn't be big changes, but I'll bet they'd be where the stories and characters lead, rather than the shock value. "Heh, heh, heh, let's kill Captain America. Let's get rid of the mutants." That shock shit is easy storytelling, which means it is without art." Absolutely. Also, I loved this line, "Yes, unmask Spider-Man but make it a logical extension of Peter Parker's life (CW apologists will here insist that it was; they are dismissed)" Thanks, chrth. Just saw it on NBC's website. That show has really stepped up. It consistently gets better. Who's watching it? Thalya, you betcha! That page is a big step up from other panels you've shown us. Continue to impress us with your stunning pooch! ; ) Who wants banana bread?! Barron34. Great post. What Joe Simon said breaks my heart. I read that at two other places and it really bothered me. The only thing that I can remember Da Q doing the past few years that was good was bringing back and supporting Runaways, but stuff like this is most definitely clown shoes and ill conceived. It's a shame. LOST. Sayid flashback!
If we don't fight al Quesada the terrorists will win... by superhero	Mar 7th, 2007 08:02:50 PM
You heard it here first...actually I got it of THE BEAT but it's still hysterical. Quesada is now known to me as al Quesada for killing off Captain America...excellent!
Umm by El Vale	Mar 7th, 2007 08:22:42 PM
I came up with Al Quesada.
Okay i'm mad again by El Vale	Mar 7th, 2007 08:24:51 PM
Superhero, you hog bitch, i can't believe you'd take that away from me!
Ooh ooh ooh!!! by Thalya	Mar 7th, 2007 09:06:16 PM
I just got back from doing some baking also. In addition to banana bread we now have pumpkin spice bread (straight from the pooch..er..oven!) and get this, banana cream pie! Here Vale, have sugary carbs, they'll make ya feel better dear. And btw, I definitely agree with you about healthy and unhealthy fantasy. That's a character arc for the fanfic, provided I can get it done. And H, thanks again. I doubt my artwork will honestly get any better, but it is fun now that I'm getting more confident about sketching layouts. Ah, the joy of actually accomplishing a piece of art(?)!
Oh i see how that would work by El Vale	Mar 7th, 2007 09:14:28 PM
Cool beans!
Oh boy by El Vale	Mar 7th, 2007 09:30:37 PM
Brubaker on the death of Captain America: http://tinyurl.com/2o2rs5
I was gonna say... by Thalya	Mar 7th, 2007 09:36:17 PM
And that last line.. the gloves are off!
i just read cap america 25 by dregmobile	Mar 7th, 2007 10:38:05 PM
and i liked it. again - i'm new to these characters (12 months in), but what i got out of the issue was a giant metaphor. marvel (or maybe just brubaker) are basically saying they don't like the political state their country is in, and if cap was alive, this is how he'd go in real life. they're saying he just doesn't fit into what the country has become. and that's saying something negative about america. if this interpretation is wrong, then i just don't get it. this is the only reason i can think of. it's the beginning of a very intriguing arc. those who read this will understand what i'm referring to. fun times ahead!
Being Brubaker by El Vale	Mar 7th, 2007 10:48:18 PM
I trust the issue to be at least very good.
I think… by The Heathen	Mar 8th, 2007 09:44:59 AM
that the issue will read well too, but I'm still worried about the overall effect this is going to have. It's a shame and I guess it bothers me so much because Bru's Cap Run is the first time I've read and collected Captain America. I started reading it at a bookstore and then I couldn't deny how great it was and started getting it at my LCS. With what happened happening, I was angry at the creators, the powers that be because I didn't think that that was something Bru would do (despite his track record). It felt off a little. That said, who knows? Maybe this will be the greatest Cap story ever, but I call horse shit that Marvel is trying to be all politically relevant and blah, blah. I almost puked when I saw Al Quesada (© Vale) talking on Nightline last night. It was a good article Vale, thanks for the link. I hope there is some master plan. I love what Bru's done with Bucky of all people. Maybe this will pan out and be worth it. The odds are against it, but maybe. One way or another Steve Rodgers is going to return.
It's a shame that... by stones_throw	Mar 11th, 2007 02:11:59 PM
if he hadn't killed Cap, Ed Brubaker's run on the book would unquestionably have been considered the best the character's ever been. Now it will just be remembered as the run in which Cap died for a while.
Thank you, The Heathen by kyletwebster	May 3rd, 2007 04:33:00 PM
I appreciate your kind words regarding the Light Children project. We are working so hard on it - anything we can do to get people to see the story is helpful, like posting on forums, etc. Last week, we posted the first five pages on the site - check them out, when you have a moment, and let me know what you think: http://www.lightchildren.com (click on the chapter one teaser banner...). Best wishes and happy Thursday, Kyle

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