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too much love for DREAMGIRLS and BABEL
by forgo10en
Jan 18th, 2007
06:30:25 AM
Babel didn't have half of the emotion power 21 Grams had ... Pitt was good. Dreamgirls are way overrated, but that chubby chick sings beautifuly and that's the only reason this movie should be watched ... Beyonce not only has less naturalism to her than a wooden doll but she also lost all of her sexines loosing so much weight and beeing another skinny chick in the industry ... WHERE ARE THE CURVES? I ask!!!!
I really need to go see Pans
by just pillow talk
Jan 18th, 2007
06:37:53 AM
Now that I know it's not centrally a fantasty, I wouldn't be so disappointed. I haven't heard as much positive feedback on Babel, and I am surprised that you put up The Good Shepherd as high as you did. That gives me some hope because I sure love me my spy movies.
wow Mori, great list
by BadMrWonka
Jan 18th, 2007
06:47:48 AM
I jsut saw Pan's Labyrinth tonight, and it lived up to the hype and then some. amazing. I loved Babel, and I'm going to see Children of Men soon enough. Dreamgirls was truly uninspiring to me, but I can see why so many people love it.

by the way, I Was really hoping you would weigh in and on the doofus talking about Crash in your secondary list talkback. worth a read if you missed it.

as always, your list is the best, thank you sir!
I have to agree about the triple #1
by LeckoManiac
Jan 18th, 2007
06:57:59 AM
I loved all three films and I loved them all the more when considering them together. That being said I imagine that Pan's is the one I will be watching the most out of the three. Still, The Fountain is the film I am itching to see again.
'Talk to Her' is a precautionary tale
by Spandau Belly
Jan 18th, 2007
07:13:53 AM
about the dangers male nurses pose to society. More haunting than 'Moonraker''s grim warning about the space race.
"its mere existence is cause for celebration"
by triplefive
Jan 18th, 2007
07:16:08 AM
glad to hear someone else say this. It hurts my head to think of all the complaining and bitching about remakes and lack of originality in filmmaking these days, and then to have something so unique and different as The Fountain be kicked in the balls so hard.
Honestly Mori this does not surprise me
by white owl
Jan 18th, 2007
07:26:33 AM
I pretty much KNEW that the Tres Amigos theme would be strong with you. You're so right about Children of Men, about how real the movie feels. It is a technical milestone of modern cinema, and it is a damn shame it wasn't marketed as well as it was. I fell in love with the film the first time I saw it, and fell deeper in love on the 2nd and 3rd viewing. And that is why it's so great to me, personally, because I haven't truly LOVED a film in a very long time, probably since Fellowship. What I think is a main contributing factor is the ensemble cast, all at the tops of their games, and especially Clive Owen. He is now completely forgiven for King Arthur. Theo's story is hopefully sad, and one critic put it best when they said (can't recall the direct quote but) Theo begins this journey not believing in the world, that it has all gone to shit, having nothing to live for. And the camera follows this hopeless chap, occasionally removing itself from him to focus on human moments like a mother crying, holding her dead son, or fugees distressed in their cage. But as he finally has something to fight for, something to live for, the camera never leaves his side, even (in my favorite part of the film) running alongside him through the battle and uprising as he ducks for cover trying to make his way to Kee, to save her. That is why I love this film so. Doesn't it feel so grand to have a movie you so care about that you try and sell it passionately to your friends and family who have never heard of the film. I've made believers out of plenty of people by now, and more are still to come. Thank you Alfonso Cuaron, thank you.
The List Is Fine, Mori, We Just Hate You As A Person
by tonagan
Jan 18th, 2007
07:30:07 AM
Insert wink here.
you've been masturbating to the fountain all year
by esbern
Jan 18th, 2007
07:35:09 AM
and you put it at number 4? you went on an on about how it was your dekstop, how it was your screensaver, and etc. etc. and you give it number 4?
you've been masturbating to the fountain all year
by esbern
Jan 18th, 2007
07:35:10 AM
and you put it at number 4? you went on an on about how it was your dekstop, how it was your screensaver, and etc. etc. and you give it number 4?
Children of Men? Really?
by oceanfrog
Jan 18th, 2007
07:43:34 AM
Honestly, I can't understand what you all see in that film. It felt hackneyed throughout and the last half was predictable and melodramatic... The could have left Michael Caine's character out completely. Useless, and he sticks out like a sore thumb with his overacting. I was shocked at the end how disappointed I was in that film. It could have been so much more, and it came across simply as a blockbuster trying to pass itself off as something thoughtful. And on a side note, Moriarty, you talk about being lucky to be a "person" instead of a "statistic". I'm afraid your one of many who conflate *their* life with life in general. Yeah, you might have received a gift, friend, but for millions in the world, life is no "gift". Life for many is day-by-day fighting for survival. I wonder if you would be considering life a gift if you were living in the sewage outwaste of the affluent in some Asian megalopolis. Or in a land where arsenic-poisoned water drops family members and neighbors like flies. Or in a dirt-floor shack in Appalachia getting nightly visits from your step dad. *Your* life might be a gift. *Life* isn't. In fact, I would venture to say that the only reason your life is a "gift" is exactly because it is a nightmare for so many others, who live to feed your clothing, food, and shelter needs. Your life isn't a gift. It's a winning lottery ticket. How are you gonna use your winnings?
Michael Caine's overacting? Jasper is useless?
by white owl
Jan 18th, 2007
07:56:50 AM
Okay, where do I begin. First of all, oceanfrog, Caine's character bring a needed light-hearted side to this mostly gloomy film. He is given some of the best straight-up dialogue in the film. Also I believe Jasper is an anti-Theo, where no matter how bad the world has gone he is always enlightening and it proves not to be a catalyst to Theo but more of inspiration. And Caine certainly is not overacting, he and Owen play off eachother very well. I can't see how else Theo and Kee could have gotten into safe harbor at the fugee camp without him, and the help of his fascist-pig friend Sid.
Oceanfrog
by LeckoManiac
Jan 18th, 2007
08:03:02 AM
You accuse Children of Men of melodrama? Seriously, its easy to take the moral high ground behind the lovely facade of an internet fan-site lurker isn't it? Bottom line, if you have the free time to read this website you are one of those "lottery winners" as well. So hows about we shut the fuck up, eh?
Then maybe just piss-poor dialog?
by oceanfrog
Jan 18th, 2007
08:04:25 AM
"Strawberry Cough!" "It's Strawberry Cough! Don't you get it?" "Strawberry Cough!".... Did I say overwrought? I did, didn't I? And hackneyed? I'm sure I said that, too. Let me add ham-handed to that.
LeckoManiac:
by oceanfrog
Jan 18th, 2007
08:11:02 AM
Of course I'm one of the lottery winners! And so are you! I wasn't taking any "moral high ground". I was forcing out in the open this false idea that many of us seem to carry that somehow we have been "gifted" this life. We have not. That kind of false thinking allows us to feel that somehow we are special. We are not. Not you, not I, not Moriarty. We are unique, for sure. But not special. We haven't been granted our riches because we are special, or because we are better. And don't think for a moment that we are not "rich". I am technically "poor" by the consensus American economic view. But I am rich beyond the wildest dreams of millions, nay billions in this world. Got anything useful to add?
Okay so what you're saying is
by white owl
Jan 18th, 2007
08:12:10 AM
you're using that line as a detriment to his performance as a whole? I'm thinking you just don't get this movie at all, oceanfrog.
wait, I get it now oceanfrog!!!
by white owl
Jan 18th, 2007
08:13:13 AM
you're an atheist!
Dude...
by oceanfrog
Jan 18th, 2007
08:15:44 AM
Even if I was a pious Christian, the point still stands.
SHORTBUS
by no-no
Jan 18th, 2007
08:18:52 AM
One of the best movie from the US this year...
My heart literally stopped when I read "Step Up"
by eppdude
Jan 18th, 2007
08:19:38 AM
That was pretty damn funny, Mori. Great list, too.
Great list
by RodneyOz
Jan 18th, 2007
08:25:47 AM
The Fountain still hasn't opened in Australia (soon, very soon) and I confess I got caught by the 'Step Up' thing, but as for everything else - even when I disagree, I like your argument for the film. To my mind, the trifecta goes Children of Men > Pan's Labyrinth > Babel, but they're all fantastic films (even though Babel depressed me so much it'll be ages before I see it again, unlike the other two).
white owl:
by oceanfrog
Jan 18th, 2007
08:26:00 AM
Uh, no, that line is just one example of the film getting it wrong. "Strawberry Cough" stuck out like a sore thumb. Little felt "organic" or "real", even though it was striving mightily to be. The battle scene at the end felt like stage choreography... I mean it almost had a beat... And there's more... The Roma that miraculously survives the onslaught of British troops only to send off Clive's character in the boat at the end, and later get blown up in an air strike... 1,2,3... 1,2,3... hear that? Almost like a drum machine...
Oceanfrog
by LeckoManiac
Jan 18th, 2007
08:28:57 AM
I really don't get what you are going for here. Do you think you are telling Mori something he doesn't know? Your little rants seem a bit midguided. I get it man. I really do. I volunteer every weekend on the South Side of Chicago and I have seen the apathy that exists down there. All of my classes (poli. sci.) deal with the sad state of affairs the world is in. I just don't think jumping all over Mori is the best outlet for this type of stuff. He was talking about movies. There is a better arena for this type of stuff then AICN. You know?
CoM Ending *SPOILERS*
by John-Locke
Jan 18th, 2007
08:34:52 AM
I didn't realise that the boat at the end was called Tomorrow, it might seem a bit cheesy but then I ask you all to consider this: Theo is in every single scene in the film, the boat arrives just after he has died, I think it's just as likely that the ending is merely his dying thoughts, he clings on to hope as his oxygen starved brain slowly slips away, it would certainly make the name of the ship seem more appropriate.
Children of Men
by porterdsgn
Jan 18th, 2007
08:39:06 AM
Is on my list to see this week. I literally can't wait. Then there's Zodiac coming out this week too. I really, really, really want to see United 93. I just don't think I have the heart for it.
BABEL was crap
by bingo the clown
Jan 18th, 2007
08:40:46 AM
It gets my vote for the worst movie by people who should have known better. It's the emotional equivalent of a Friday 13th movie, although the best review I read of it treated it as a comedy: http://tinyurl.com/2j7g9r.
Children of Men
by BilboRing
Jan 18th, 2007
08:43:09 AM
Saw it last night with two buddies. After the movie, none of us spoke and we just went home. I felt so bad that I hugged both of my kids. Amazingly dark, deep and brilliant movie. HIGHLY recommended.
Oceanfrog
by just pillow talk
Jan 18th, 2007
08:43:43 AM
Some people really liked the movie (myself included), others did not. And I thought Caine was great, had some great humorous lines thrown in there. I viewed him as another 'event' that futher changed Theo during his journey to self-awakening.

And dude, while I hear what you are saying with the majority of the world in piss-poor conditions, but to think that no one is special, I feel sorry for you. If we all felt that, then there is no need to fight for anything at all. I have a one year old and I think she's pretty god damn special. While I do not consider myself special, I have known people who were special throughout my life. But perhaps we are saying the same thing, except I choose to use the adjective special instead of unique.

No, there is not.
by oceanfrog
Jan 18th, 2007
08:46:52 AM
If Moriarty can talk about abortion, about life, how he values it, what he feels this movie will do, etc, etc, it is the perfect place for responding. If not here, where? On some activist blog? His point was that the movie would provoke thought and discussion on the matter. Well, it has. And you want me to just keep my mouth shut and take it elsewhere, because this isn't the "arena" for it? Perhaps no one wants to talk about these things here. Perhaps these forums are just for sniping over which BSG was better, or Kevin Smith adulation. Perhaps I should just write my thoughts on a slip of paper and slide them into a tiny box and place the box in a dresser underneath some old sweaters so that no one could ever see them. Uh, no thanks. I brought this up, because this "life is a gift" line is part of what drives the anti-abortionists. The ones who aren't "pro life", but objectively "pro birth". They just want to get you born. They don't give a damn about you after you're born. You're in God's hands, then. I don't buy it. I think it's fanatical malarky, and it allows us to yet again evade human responsibility by putting off the consequences until we're dead and "in God's hands", under the guise of moral rectitude. There are human consequences to every action -- getting pregnant, having an abortion, outlawing an abortion -- and we can't evade our human responsibility by hiding behind this idea of divine right. Even if life *were* a gift from "God", it would not absolve us from our responsibility to others.
Cain Was Great
by BilboRing
Jan 18th, 2007
08:47:43 AM
I loved his character and his last scene just made me ill. The reality of this movie is what got me. Not a blockbuster/hero movie. It felt like this could really happen. I felt like I was there with them. Even the ending was great. Next will be Pan's. Babel I guess I will have to rent one day.
just pillow talk
by oceanfrog
Jan 18th, 2007
08:53:28 AM
What I mean by "special" is what many mean by special: "priveleged". Because special has that extra meaning, I prefer "unique".
Lake of Fire
by antonphd
Jan 18th, 2007
09:12:29 AM
While I don't think I could make it thru this movie, I'm glad to hear about it. Freedom is about as important to me as breath. That said, I was also adopted and I just can't feel 'ok' about abortion with obvious medical or tramatic exceptions. By the standard of anyone I should have been an obvious case for abortion. But I'm glad to be alive and I've lived a hard childhood but I love my life and I would never be alright with having never had a chance to live it. What I can't be ok with is that I know kids who grew up in foster care, me for one, and had terrible things happen to them, but we all still want to be alive. My biggest problem with abortion is that some people say it's for the kid's sake and that is just not true. I've never met one single kid who was in the situation that parents who aborted their child wanted to spare the child living in that would rather have been never born than go thru what they are going thru. Not a single one. I know 9 months is a long time to edure being pregnant, but if you at least do that and give the child up for adoption, isn't it worth knowing that the child will be happy to be given life?
Volver is simply great
by scratcher
Jan 18th, 2007
09:13:35 AM
My wife and I watched every Almodovar film available on Netflix this summer (tragically, Women on the Verge and Tie Me up aren't available!), since she'd never seen any of them. I realized that I'd never really given him the credit he deserves - he's one of top directors working. His work (especially Volver) always surprises, and they surprise in surprising ways. Volver is so anti-Hollywood. I can't imagine a Hollywood film with an all-female cast that has NO ROMANCE. And it works - an extremely funny film about real relationships.
um, I know of no one who uses special as
by just pillow talk
Jan 18th, 2007
09:14:54 AM
privileged. People who are retarded have been called special, but not someone who is privileged. For instance, stooopider was 'special'. But that's neither here nor there.

Do you by chance live next to a Jesus Camp or something oceanfrog? Not that I don't agree with you in terms of not taking responsibility for your actions, but just asking.

cool list
by thefreeagents
Jan 18th, 2007
09:20:29 AM
you sold me on Babel and Children of Men. I'll check 'em out as soon asd I can.
Some really interesting choices...
by DanielKurland
Jan 18th, 2007
09:21:23 AM
I just wish Inland Empire would fucking come to Toronto!
Lake of Fire part 2
by antonphd
Jan 18th, 2007
09:22:26 AM
Anyway, I'm glad a movie has released that is just about the whole thing and not just propaganda from anyone's point of view. I agree that a woman's body is her's to decide what to do with... it is unfortunate that abortion is a choice women should ever have to make. It's just sad. I think that society needs to offer better solutions than aborting human life. There's gotta be better solutions. Spanking used to be the way to discipline your children and when it kept them from worse pain it was an ok way to discipline, but now days we have figured out better ways to discipline. Can't we do that with complicated pregnancies? I think we can.
I'd wager...
by BabatuFerguson
Jan 18th, 2007
09:25:35 AM
...that the vast majority of the desperately poor and subsistence-level survivors of the world prefer being alive to, well, not. Otherwise they'd all kill themselves, and get it over with already. The fact that billions of people live with a level of struggle and sadness most of us will never see or comprehend doesn't mean their lives aren't worth living.
Mori GOTTA EAT!
by BGDAWES
Jan 18th, 2007
09:40:37 AM
Just doing my duty as a AICN talkbacker, let's hope this phrase never dies because it's always funny. Always. An example of a phrase that wasn't funny at all was, 'pwns teh suck' or whatever the hell that was. Now that...that phrase sucked. 'Gotta Eat' on the other hand, is pure gold.
DAM YOU ROB ZOMBIE
by Turd Furgeson
Jan 18th, 2007
09:41:04 AM
DAM YOU ROB ZOMBIE
If you have 3-way tie for first, the next film is 4th
by hst666
Jan 18th, 2007
09:42:18 AM
You have a top twelve here, not a top ten. That's a cheat any way you look at it. Everything should be moved down, with 9 and 10 being moved to the runners up and 19 and 20 being moved off the list.
Lake of Fire
by Bloo
Jan 18th, 2007
09:46:51 AM
I love American History X and still recommend it to people that i KNOW can handle it but always with the wrning "this film can be pretty rough" it sounds like Tony Kaye has relaly captured something here with Lake of Fire that I know I want to see. Another abortion through adoption survivor here. Born in 77 to a 19 y/o college student, limited family support (only the g-mother was willing to support her) I was given to a family that COULDN'T have children and my life, while not perfect, I can say has been blessed. That's how I look at things, that I have been blessed with life. I've gotten into many debates and arguments about the abortion issue over the years adn you're right Mori, it often does just end in arguments being shouted back and forth at each other, facts rarely get in the way. Even when facts are tried to be presented sometimes it's down in "combative" ways, like shown movie poster size images of aborted fetuses which just gets people riled up adn into a shouting match. When it comes to "abortion protestors" I much perfer the tatics of "BOUND4LIFE" a group that even Planned Parenthood says is using a brillent stratagy, that is the stand silently with tape acros their mouth that says 'Life'. Too many times we get caught up in the emotions of the abortion debate and not the facts and that is sad.
hst666
by Bloo
Jan 18th, 2007
09:48:56 AM
so it's a top 12 list and not a top 10 list, big deal, find something else better to do then bitch about stupid little things
I'm amazed Lynch can get away at such bloated junk.
by Lovecraftfan
Jan 18th, 2007
09:51:34 AM
If anyone else made that three hour bore it would be laughed off the screen. I got the film fine, but just because he can do it feels like you're dreaming doesn't make up for the completely uninteresting storyline and the unengaging characters. For three hours that's a sin.
Oh and Michael's Caine character is not useless
by Lovecraftfan
Jan 18th, 2007
10:04:32 AM
He is both the comedic relief and also provides another event that will forever change Theo. I mean seriously do people even pay attention anymore.
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you...
by ErnieAnderson
Jan 18th, 2007
10:07:41 AM
on the opinion that BABEL, CHILDREN OF MEN and PAN'S LABYRINTH are the best films of the directors' respective careers.

They are merely the best films so far. Goddamn, the talent each has shown in each of those three films is such a leap over their previously amazing work, I almost shudder in anticipation of their future work. If they continue to improve at all, we will be fortunate beyond words.

Great list, though.

Catch phrases are not funny, people. Stop using them.

"Best Films" of the Year
by gcheath19
Jan 18th, 2007
10:09:38 AM
Come on Mori, "arrogant"? Seems like you're trying to be a little high and mighty calling out every print journalist or even online critic who uses "Best". And you might be right. BUt that's why they are critics.
The Good Shepherd
by QuinnTheEskimo
Jan 18th, 2007
10:10:20 AM
Is boring. I'm not being an asshole, Mori, that's just my opinion. I can understand liking it, but it just didn't connect with me. That and Billy Crudup's accent is awful.
Also
by QuinnTheEskimo
Jan 18th, 2007
10:17:57 AM
Children of Men might be the best film of the decade. Twenty years from now people will look back and say, "Children of Men is one of the great films of cinema history." Nobody saw Blade Runner when it came out either.
BabatuFerguson:
by oceanfrog
Jan 18th, 2007
10:19:55 AM
I'm sorry, but that's not an argument. For someone committing suicide, their own free will (whatever that is) has to fight against the survival instincts of millions of cells, the social stigma against suicide, and the religious fanatics that instill in their heads ideas of eternal damnation. If killing ourselves was such a hard thing to do because life is so frickin' precious, we'd probably also be doing a hell of a lot less killing of the animals of the world than we do. But we slaughter them with impunity. (Well, *we* don't. We get others to.) We'd probably do a lot less killing of each other, too, don't you think? And you see what Moriarty was getting at, echoed in the words of Everett Robert? He's an "abortion through adoption survivor". Never mind that "he" didn't exist until "he" was out of the womb. "He" miraculously survived and is now "blessed". These are the same people (not Everett, necessarily) who want to give fetuses citizen rights. Seriously, there are people out there who want to win the debate by making fetuses citizens, and therefore making abortion murder. Pause for a moment and consider the ramifications of such an act. From the moment of conception, a woman's womb would *have to*, by dint of this draconian law, come under the care of the State. That's the only way that they can protect the fetus through its nine months, and the only way that they could enforce this absurd law. But they don't consider that in their machinations, because they aren't concerned with consequences. They are "pro birth". They're not "pro life". They don't give a shit about life that already exists (the mother, who is already a citizen), except for her "immortal soul" which will burn in hellfire. They don't give a shit about the children who are born (they have aligned themselves for years with a Republican majority that has done everything in its power to take away possibility from the lives of the poor in our country, by weakening the public education system, by allowing our health-care system to become the privelege of the rich, etc etc). I'm sorry, but to anyone who wants to have a dialog, the choice for me is easy. Align myself with those people? No way. I value my liberty, the liberty of every woman I've ever met, the promise of a better tomorrow through human endeavor and compassion, and the necessity for us to live and act in the world we have with consideration for the world we have, not consideration for an afterlife that exists only for those who believe it.
John Ashcroft must not be on your Christmas card list
by just pillow talk
Jan 18th, 2007
10:29:04 AM
since he wanted to ban all abortions and call a fetus a citizen from fertilization. He's a fucking loon.
DREAMGIRLS
by THE KNIGHT
Jan 18th, 2007
10:31:38 AM
Was ok.... To my suprise, people were complaining whenever one of the characters started singing... It's like they didn't know they were going to watch a musical...
Babel
by Laremy L
Jan 18th, 2007
10:37:23 AM
Babel was one of the worst things I've seen in a long time. Schlock masquerading as an "important message." That said, I guess I can see where someone would like it if they were in the right mood, and like the dude says "That's just like... your opinion man."
ErnieAnderson..
by white owl
Jan 18th, 2007
10:41:26 AM
you do know Guillermo delToro is about to adapt H.P. Lovecraft's "At the Mountains of Madness". My favorite horror short story, and one of the best ever.Read it and you will know.. perhaps only Del Toro would do it justice.
oceanfrog
by The Decider
Jan 18th, 2007
10:41:30 AM
I'm a liberal (well, libertarian at least), irreligious, skeptical secularist who is against abortion rights (except in the case of rape or the mother's life is in danger). I don't believe in an afterlife, souls, etc. I don't believe there is such a thing as "sin." However, I do believe that we as a society need to maintain certain minimum standards of ethical conduct and abortion crosses those standards.
Altough...
by BabatuFerguson
Jan 18th, 2007
10:49:11 AM
...I think it's an indisputable fact that a hard life is usually worth living despite its many drawbacks, this is not an anti-abortion argument. I'm as pro-choice as the next guy, really, but this view is rooted in the rights of the woman outweighing the *potential* life of a fetus -- not this deluded idea that a great many lives just aren't worth living, so we shouldn't feel bad for the world's loss of those who don't get to be born.
Dreamgirls
by utz_world
Jan 18th, 2007
10:49:20 AM
I gotta give you props for the stuff you said about "Dreamgirls". Most of these folks simply don't get it. You hit the nail on the head. It is, indeed, a movie about dreams. More than that - it's the true definition of Soul Cinema. In fact, the flick is packed with so much soul for your average stuffy stodgy film critic to handle. Heck...even the legion of pot-smoking XBOX 360 addicts that regularly frequent these talkbacks can barely handle the movie.
Info
by Cobbio
Jan 18th, 2007
10:52:17 AM
Thanks for the information about "Black Book" and "Lake of Fire," Mori. I hadn't heard of either of those films until reading about them on your list. I now want to seek them out and watch both of them.
Decider...
by oceanfrog
Jan 18th, 2007
10:54:11 AM
Then you I could have an argument with. Unfortunately, I believe your position opens the entire country up to the overreaching of those radicals on the anti-abortion side who would go to the extremes mentioned in my previous post. And given our inability as a nation to provide financial, physical and emotional support for the poorest among us, I find myself unwilling -- in addition to stealing their potential by dumbing down the school system and denying them adequate health care by pricing it out of their reach -- to deny them essential decision-making over their bodies.
Cheat! Thats a top twenty two!
by Reelheed
Jan 18th, 2007
10:54:23 AM
Hmm. I've only seen United, Vulver(sic), Children of and Pan's Lab out of these. So I guess I'll take this as an chance to visit Blockbusters.
white owl
by ErnieAnderson
Jan 18th, 2007
11:03:29 AM
I've been following the project for years. And yes, I know I'm going to get knocked on my coal mining ass by it.
Pan's...overhyped
by gcheath19
Jan 18th, 2007
11:07:17 AM
I'm sorry guys and gals but Pan's isn't as good as advertised. I think people are overwhelmed by the hype and miss the inherant problems within the story like, who the hell's point of view does this movie represent? Way to cluttered a narrative.
Moriarty
by PwnedByStallone
Jan 18th, 2007
11:12:00 AM
Thanks for making me cry with that Lake of Fire review, you bastard.
Top Ten List of 06?
by unmask
Jan 18th, 2007
11:12:30 AM
Superb list, and with excellent analysis and explanation, this might be the best list of '06. Now, I'm glad it wasn't rushed like other critic's lists. The only slight qualm I would have is A Scanner Darkly being more of an average movie. The ending is stunning, I agree, but it makes up for all the shapeshifting suits and psycho-babblery coupled by the sea-sick animation which all becomes a migraine inducer. Without the animation, I feel Robert Downey Jr. would have garnered some Globes and Oscar talk for the role. But maybe I was in the wrong "state" for the film.
Bill Condon made a huge miscalculation
by JohnGalt06
Jan 18th, 2007
11:13:32 AM
with Dreamgirls by delaying all the true "musical numbers" to the second hour. Up until then, it's just a movie with some music, all the songs being sung on stage. It's awkward when it makes the transition and truth be told, the reason everyone goes ga-ga over "And I'm Telling You" is because it's the only really good song in the whole piece. Can you say over-hyped?
I felt cheated by the fountain- Some Spoilers!
by clockpolitiks
Jan 18th, 2007
11:26:43 AM
Honestly, I didn't feel cheated by the lack of sci-fi stuff. I felt cheated that the spanish conq and space scenes were all part of a book that Hugh and Weisz wrote. I went into the movie thinking that Hugh and Weisz drank from the fountain and really were living forever through time, and not metaphysically living together throught the book and the tree crap.
The Fountain
by sleepy holloway
Jan 18th, 2007
11:41:16 AM
That seals the deal. I'm seeing this today. There's a theatre near by that sells booze. (It saves the trouble of sneaking it in and searching for a suitable mixer)
don't see The Fountain with high expectations...
by JohnGalt06
Jan 18th, 2007
11:43:31 AM
Because you will be disappointed. The move is all style and very little substance. I was quite frankly at how imagination or insight that Aronofsky brought to the table. The cast can't be faulted (not even that fat guy from MY NAME IS EARL) but the writer/director sure can... The year's biggest disappointment.
Brazil has a happy ending???
by JohnGalt06
Jan 18th, 2007
11:51:42 AM
Moriarty, I thought this was one of your favorite films. Are you referring to the "Love Conquers All" version, because I like to pretend that cut doesn't exist? The ending of BRAZIL is most definitely not happy. You have seen the film, yes?
CHILDREN OF MEN
by stvnhthr
Jan 18th, 2007
11:52:49 AM
Doesn't it bother anyone that the movie makers totally changed the movie of CHILDREN OF MEN to fit their own liberal anti-Republican views and ignored the great novel with its strong Conservative and Christian themes? Is it okay to dump on the source material when it does not fit your own worldview? Strange hypocrisy for reviewers who should judge a work on its merits and not how well it lines up with your own political slant.
DAVID LYNCH GOTTA EAT
by Finchmeister
Jan 18th, 2007
11:52:56 AM
Putting a movie filmed at your house as #2? Putting Babel near the top slot for the same of some Three Amigos shit going on? Motherfucking Snakes? I don't think so.
Best film in a decade?
by peytonallen
Jan 18th, 2007
12:01:59 PM
I thought Children Of Men was a good film made with incredible skill. But best film in a decade? Don't see that. Maybe I need another viewing to let it sink in. Just felt like the movie had get up but not a lot of go. Well-made, but nowhere near the level of "Minority Report" for my tastes.
Sorry, Moriarty...
by MC Vamp
Jan 18th, 2007
12:07:07 PM
Your top ten had twelve films in it. That's cheating. Either expand the list or lop some off. Just messing, though maybe you should have just made a top 25 and bit the bullet with a clear #1 instead of hemming and hawing and finally giving up and cramming three flicks into one spot. I understand the feeling though. Every time one makes any sort of "favorites" list, it always feels like you're playing favorites with your own children...
Am I the only one who found PL and COM overrated?
by Garbageman33
Jan 18th, 2007
12:26:30 PM
I know I'm in the minority here and I'll probably catch a beatdown, but hear me out. As for Pan's Labyrinth, I thought the fantasy elements were fantastic. But I found the rest of the story incredibly broad. In fact, it made Black Book look subtle by comparison. And that's really saying something. Her stepdad seemed like a caricature, not a real person. I wouldn't have been surprised to see him kick a puppy at some point. Even Ralph Fiennes had glimpses of real human feelings in Schindler's List. Which, to me, made him even scarier. Children of Men just bored me for huge stretches of time. Plus, the story seemed like a cheat. (SPOILERS AHEAD) They set up this world where a baby could change the future depending on whose hands she fell into, so she had to be protected at all costs. So how does it end? They walk right out the front door, past all the people who supposedly would kill to get their hands on her. Huh? Anyway, that's my opinion. Emphasis on "opinion". You may not agree with me, but I don't think we need to bring my mother into this.
Children Of Men
by Cameron1
Jan 18th, 2007
12:29:41 PM
It probably doesn't bother that many people, because a large amount don't know it's based on a book to begin with. It's also one of the preachiest, shrillest and longwinded dystopian vision books I've read. The film is a definite improvement, and at least the film doesn't try to claim the rise of secularism as the reason for infertility because that idea is just plain stupid.
Children Of Men continued....
by Cameron1
Jan 18th, 2007
12:36:18 PM
If a critic likes the film it's not hypocrisy, it just means they like the film. Now whether they like the film because of the strong performances and amazing direction or becuase of it's politics, it doesn't matter. They liked the film and not the novel and they are 2 seperate entities, there's no hypocrisy going on at all in that case. In fact it would be more hypocritical to enjoy the film, realise it's not like the book and then slate the film on that basis.
I own a boat called Tomorrow
by rost
Jan 18th, 2007
12:39:01 PM
...so, could be mine.
Yeh, Lake Of Fire just shot to the top....
by Cameron1
Jan 18th, 2007
12:42:24 PM
of my must see list. I always Tony Kaye was a talented motherfucker. Can't wait to see a truly unbiased look at this issue.
Lake of Fire Review
by BGDAWES
Jan 18th, 2007
12:42:50 PM
Mori, usually I like to come in here and call you an assknob or something simply because your wit in your eventual retort to name callers in the TB's always completely cracks me up. But I'm not going to do it this time. Your Lake of Fire review is the best thing you have published so far, in my meaningless opinion. Bravo.
What, No "Snakes On A Plane"?
by monorail77
Jan 18th, 2007
12:49:05 PM
j/k. Thanks Mori, I love your insights, even when we disagree. You've inspired me to rush out and catch "A Scanner Darkly", at least. Oh, and for the record, I would have swapped "The Departed" for "The Good Shepherd" on your two lists, but they were both pretty great, so who cares?
Just pick a #1!
by timmer33
Jan 18th, 2007
12:51:45 PM
It's a top ten list, not a top 12 as someone said above. It's like the time Harry had multiple ties all through his top ten list. Make a decision!
Pretty solid list
by Sidius
Jan 18th, 2007
01:03:28 PM
I haven't seen some of the films on it yet like The Fountain or Volver (still catching up) but your top 3 #1 films are all in my Top 10.

I loathe the presence of Dreamgirls on your list though - a sentiment that seems to be shared by many of the posters here as well. The film as a whole just wasn't that good.

While I have no problems with some of the performers being recognized for their work (I'm all for Hudson, Murphy or Beyonce - btw I still can't believe I liked Beyonce's performance). I thought the film itself was an exercise in show over substance and an excellent example of everything that could go wrong with a movie musical.

I absolutely hated the screenplay. The transitions between songs were so stage-like and hackneyed that they killed any momentum for me. In some instances they were so forced that I found myself wishing against more singing. That's never good for a musical.

Jamie Foxx was really bad - Stealth bad. And singlehandedly ruined some scenes for me. My favorite scenes are all scenes without Foxx's character and as you probably know those were few and far between.

IMO Dreamgirls is the Crash of 2006. Solid to great performances hidden in a terrible screenplay and all the publicity of the studios behind it 100%. It will win a crapload of awards. It will beat out The Departed or United 93 as Best Picture and I will hate it for the rest of my life. I so wanted to like the film - I was one of those that thought Chicago deserved all the acclaim and was a huge fan of Condon's work there - but it was just bad. Hudson's performance deserved a better shelter.
Wow if you thought COM was pro something you missed the
by Lovecraftfan
Jan 18th, 2007
01:11:37 PM
entire point of the film. The zealot ideological poeople on both sides are the ones causing misery in the film. Theo OUR MORAL CENTER was not political but pro-humanity.
Children Of Men
by rexreason
Jan 18th, 2007
01:15:23 PM
let me say that i thought this movie was a mundane at best. It wanted to be a serious thought piece, but with its silly premise it was hard to attach myself to any of it, which made the ending that much more ridiculous. If people were so attached to the "youngest child" who died in the beginning, I found myself wondering why they would be hiding a potential newborn, when it would be embraced just the same. I know that the main charecter pointed to this notion a couple of times, but it never really felt explained why they had to hide her. much like the rest of this movie. you have to suspend common sense.
The selflessness of the Amigos
by Barry Egan
Jan 18th, 2007
01:19:30 PM
It is due to the fact that real artists see the Awards Season for what it is: an empty exercise in self-promotion and self-congratulation. The worst films made today are the ones that exist simply to be Oscar bait. It baffles me how people like Harvey Weinstein can get so obsessed with winning awards that are so arbitrarily given for ART.
Agreed lovecraftfan, the ONLY thing CoM was for
by Cameron1
Jan 18th, 2007
01:27:37 PM
was humanity. And rex, you don't need to suspend common sense, you just need to employ other senses...like listening. The reasons for not telling people about the baby are covered in the meeting at the farmhouse. Kee is a foogie (films spelling not mine) and the government would not allow such a person to be the mother to the child. The child would have been used as a political pawn the second news got out. The fishes were just as selfish and blind as the government and everyone else, apart from Theo and Julian and Pam Ferris' character.
If they wouldn't allow a fugee to be the mother
by Garbageman33
Jan 18th, 2007
01:33:51 PM
Then why did she walk right out into the middle of a war zone and not only did they not take the baby, they stopped shooting so they could marvel at just how darn cute the little tyke was?
because Garbagman
by just pillow talk
Jan 18th, 2007
01:36:27 PM
imagine seeing a child, a crying child, for the first time in two decades. They were all in shock and a glimmer of hope probably flew through their minds.
exactly pillow talk.
by Cameron1
Jan 18th, 2007
01:41:11 PM
And the army is not the government anyway. They are the grunts on the frontline confronted with a true miracle, not suits in a comfy office being told about a baby.
Also....
by Cameron1
Jan 18th, 2007
01:44:32 PM
it can be seen as a metaphor for how amidst the cycle of violence and retaliation human live if forgotten about. The fighting only stops for a minute or two no more, then it cranks right back up. It's like Theo says; the world was fucked way before the infertility thing.
Hmm...
by Garbageman33
Jan 18th, 2007
01:47:05 PM
I agree with pillow talk, but it still feels like a cop out and, frankly, lessens the impact of the rest of the movie. I mean, they spend the whole movie trying to escape. And in the end, they stroll right out the front door.
I thought when he asked his brother for help
by just pillow talk
Jan 18th, 2007
01:50:43 PM
that was interesting. He was amazed on how his brother continues to live. But then his son is a fucking vegetable and he lives above the whole city, above the day to day shit. Except for that pig balloon. (it was a pig, right?)
Twas a pig yes, at battersea powerstation...
by Cameron1
Jan 18th, 2007
01:54:03 PM
It was a recreation of Pink Floyd's "Animals" album cover.
John Galt...
by TheRealMoriarty
Jan 18th, 2007
01:58:46 PM
... such is the beauty of BRAZIL.

When I call BRAZIL the most fucked-up happy ending of all time, I mean it. Sam Lowry's body may be in that chair, catatonic and damaged from the torture, but Sam is free. He's gone. He escapes, and no chair and no system will ever hold him again. The first time I saw the film (one of my two favorites of all time, btw), as the camera pulled back to reveal Sam alone in that dome, and the music came up on the soundtrack, and I realized that Gilliam had set Sam free, but only where it counted... in his head... I was gobsmacked. It's still one of my favorite movie moments ever.

Not a Pink Floyd fan, so I completely missed that
by just pillow talk
Jan 18th, 2007
02:03:00 PM
Thanks Cameron for that tidbit.
Mori and Pillow
by Cameron1
Jan 18th, 2007
02:08:09 PM
Mori, I agree with you on Brazil, just a shame no-one at Universal did.

No probs pillow. It's doubly funny because the music playing in the Rolls Royce on the drive to the powerstation is by King Crimson who music snobs have for years argued as being vastly superior to Floyd in everyway.

Nice to see Black Book in there
by Vicenzo
Jan 18th, 2007
02:15:24 PM
I consider Starship Troopers another great Verhoeven film. I'm not sure if Winter Queen is released in 2007 though.
Starship Troopers is great campy fun
by just pillow talk
Jan 18th, 2007
02:17:18 PM
The tide of bugs is just fuck'n great when they are about to overrun them...
got nothing to add
by just pillow talk
Jan 18th, 2007
02:17:34 PM
just wanted to get this TB to #100...for Mori...for country!
Rex...
by DarthCorleone
Jan 18th, 2007
02:56:59 PM
I don't think that the newborn would be embraced the same as the 18-year-old. The 18-year-old represented the end of the good times. That 18-year-old was still one of the people - one of their generation. This newborn represents a desperate grab at trying to reclaim what was lost. Also, note that the 18-year-old died as a result of his celebrity. In that respect, the newborn is similar, and her safety is in jeopardy.
Cameron1
by stvnhthr
Jan 18th, 2007
03:00:19 PM
I think the hypocrisy I see is how anything with a non-Christian theme is expected to be true to teh source material. Anything that is of a moral, Conservative, or Christian (not always one in the same, but they get treated the same) origin gets the shaft. It is almost like people don't like the Christian message. I'm glad you at least read the book, it was much better than the movie, but again I don't think you like the novel because you could't seperate its morals from its narrative.
COM ending a cop out?
by DarthCorleone
Jan 18th, 2007
03:06:45 PM
I don't think the reaction of the people was a cheat. It seemed realistic to me. BUT...why did Cuaron have to make it so damn stylistically overwrought? The outreached hands, the music...it was just way too heavyhanded. After a film rooted in so much gritty, abrupt reality, that ending severely undermined what was almost a perfect film for me up to that point. The ending is pretty damn important, so I gotta disagree with Moriarty when he says that he can overlook the flaws in the conclusion. (There were a couple other moments there that weren't ideal for me either.) That said, I agree with his rationale for the three-way tie, even though I haven't seen Babel or Pan's yet. The kinship of those three guys is very admirable.
Wow, Mori.
by FluffyUnbound
Jan 18th, 2007
03:16:19 PM
My read of the end of BRAZIL is the opposite of yours. The joy of the apparent happy ending is pulled back to reveal the tragic reality. It's the narrative equivalent of the highway shot where they pull up and you can see that behind the steady row of colorful billboards the entire landscape is ruined and blasted.
Please explain...
by Dee1973
Jan 18th, 2007
03:37:00 PM
How a nation that's so in love with the death penalty can still get so worked up about abortion? By the way Mori list is pretty spot on. Pan's & Children of Men are amazing
Good to see The Fountain and A Scanner Darkly...
by rbatty024
Jan 18th, 2007
03:49:41 PM
on the list. Good picks. Sci-fi is so rarely good movie material, it's amazing we had two great sci-fi films in one year.
well stvnthr, it's always funny to read someone...
by Cameron1
Jan 18th, 2007
03:52:44 PM
try and tell me why I didn't like something. I know perfectly well why i didn't like it. The same reason I don't like most of PD James' detective stuff. It's longwinded, repetitive and overwrought. The novel has the added problem of being as preachy as the average Micheal Moore film. But perhaps I should just tell you that the only reason you liked it was because you agreed with it's politics...would that be more suited to you level of discsussion? As for your point about people wanting non christian works adapted faithfully and christian works stripped of subtext, I'd have to say it depends on who you ask. His Dark Materials is having all it's references to the Church removed to appease Christians whereas Narnia was puposefully sold as a Christian metaphor. It's not as one sided as you seem to think.
As Always M., I'm Moved
by Prague23
Jan 18th, 2007
03:57:02 PM
If I haven't agreed with you, I haven't seen what you chose. Although Pan didn't strike such a chord with me, certainly the Mexicans put on a fantastic show this year. As did the Spanish genious with Volver. Mainstream awards aren't going to mean shit this year, and less every year, because WE are so much more informed about reality and what's out there than most people are the Academy or whoever aren't going to mean shit to us, just like the Golden Globes don't. Only film festivals, yours or overseas (where I am) really are only signifigant, and they have been, when they're showing what everyone else doesn't, especially when these films are winning awards and don't even get a USA limited run. God bless Fantastic Fest and BNAT. When I come back to the US, I'm seriouslly consiering migrating to Austin. Not that you live there, I have no idea but you know what I mean. Casino Royale was my fav, because of living in Prague and pure entertainment value. I'd be happy with Children of Men being anyone's favorite. It was my 3rd, Babel was my #2. And, just bought Lost Girls, it's absolutely amazing and you said it first. Happy New Year & Cheers.
Babel better than The Fountain?
by dtpena
Jan 18th, 2007
04:02:31 PM
Today you died to me Moriarty. I'll never read your critics again.
Dtpena...
by TheRealMoriarty
Jan 18th, 2007
04:10:50 PM
... that's a shame. I'll still read your talkbacks. And, really, it's just a matter of degrees when you're talking about a top ten. All of these will end up in my house on DVD and in my player in years to come. Can't we just agree it was a lovely year of movies and make out a little? C'mere! MWAH!
No Rocky?--Moriarty LIVES!
by www.valiens.com
Jan 18th, 2007
04:11:56 PM
There. Just resurrected ya. Plus your top 3 number ones make perfect sense.
Columbine
by Garbageman33
Jan 18th, 2007
04:19:57 PM
I'd withhold judgment on Forrest Whitaker until you actually see the movie. In fact, that's just a good idea in general. I'd also ease up on the white supremacist meetings.
The cease fire sequence was a metaphor.
by Lovecraftfan
Jan 18th, 2007
04:47:41 PM
Jesus it's really that simple. The reason why they started shooting again is becuase the baby which represents hope has leaved their periphery. It's an extremely pessmistic view about humanity and shows what the movie says all along. Theo only cares about humanity not about taking sides or joining a fight which is why he never touches a weapon. The cease fire sequence not only sums up the view of the movie but offers a sad comment about our world today. Seriously people it's just a metaphor.
I don't necessarily agree with Babel...
by MikeHoncho
Jan 18th, 2007
04:50:10 PM
But I definately feel that Children of Men and Pan's Labyrinth are the best movies of the year, nad probably the best movies of the last few years. The rest of your list I don't quite agree with though, especially the Good Shepherd and Dreamgirls.
Three-Way Tie for Last
by BannedOnTheRun
Jan 18th, 2007
05:01:06 PM
"Is that the Minutemen, man?" "Yeah, man!" "Well turn it up, man!"
Dont let them Arses get you down,Moriarty
by pipergates
Jan 18th, 2007
05:16:53 PM
As we all know some people will will say anything,or write it,just to get a response,and if somebody that might be considered a web celebrity actually responds in any way,it will be the most joyfull moment of their lousy lives.Or if anybody at all responds probably.Cant you guys put up a filter to keep out the ones who doesnt have anything useful to say? Sure have to wade through a lot of muck here sometimes.
Thanks Mori
by hamo455
Jan 18th, 2007
05:52:39 PM
I'm a sucker for lists, and I really enjoy reading a bunch of different opinions. It's a shame that people feel the need to attack you for it, but if it's debating the merits of the film and not your taste, then that's all to the good. It's just a shame that because I line in New Zealand, I'll probably have to wait months to see some of these films - at least half of these weren't released here in 2006, and some of them won't be for another couple of months at least.
very good three top choices
by pipergates
Jan 18th, 2007
06:04:09 PM
Havent seen all the movies on the list,after reading this i am more interested in several of them. But the films of the Tres Amigos has got to be at the top,and if they dont recieve major Oscars that just goes to prove that the most famous movie event/selection is just as dumb and dishonest as the ignorant masses of movie-consumers. Thank you for your excellent commentaries,Moriarty,really. The Children of Men is a movie that continues to amaze me each time i see it.That long scene in the car,the way the camera swirls around showing everything,yet nobody's holding the camera,the way that ball pops perfectly from one mouth to another,the knocking down of the motorcycle,its just amazing.And the scene set to The Court of the Krimson King.And the soldiers and the baby...¡Cuaron,eres un chingado!te pasaste,man.
EXCELLENT apart from maybe Babel
by performingmonkey
Jan 18th, 2007
06:04:54 PM
Yeah, I can understand why people would love Babel but unfortunately I didn't. It's probably one I need to see again, unlike Children Of Men which I KNOW is fucking incredible and worthy of every accolade thrown at it. Can I just say that after the first list I was crazily convinced that Balboa would be in Mori's top selection, I don't know what I was thinking! Personally I WOULD place Casino Royale in any top ten list for '06.
No Blindsight, Mori?
by Garbageman33
Jan 18th, 2007
06:06:59 PM
I seem to recall you seeing it at the AFI Fest in November. Personally, I think it was the most affecting, poignant film of the year. But I'm a sucker for well done documentaries.
Helen Hunt has an Oscar
by Charles Grady
Jan 18th, 2007
06:09:38 PM
Poor Marissa Tomei and Mira Sorvino always get singled out as wins that make a joke of the Oscars, but really, Helen Hunt is way, way worse. Do you know ANYONE who's ever enjoyed Helen Hunt? Ever? Okay, maybe Kenneth Turan. But he's hateful, unpleasant, irritating, void of charisma, and has all the looks of a Van Nuys bus driver. Gotta love that movie she did where she was out stealing men away from SCARLETT JOHANSSON. Likely story, Helen. And nice forehead. Why her SAG membership didn't lapse after ROLLERCOASTER is one of Hollywood's enduring mysteries. Anyway, MIAMI VICE is sorely missing from not just this list, but too many of them. That movie is exactly what life is all about. Christ, Farrell's moustache should win an Oscar. Not to mention John Murphy's score.
Actual honest-to-goodness sincere non-troll question
by BannedOnTheRun
Jan 18th, 2007
06:24:56 PM
...for Moriarty. I didn't see "Pro-Life," but from reading the script, it's kind of hard to reconcile the broad strokes contained therein with the critic so moved by "Lake of Fire." I guess I'm wondering about the leap from the introspection expressed above to the idea of writing a Masters of Horror episode about Assault on Clinic 13. Obviously you were writing with the project and audience in mind, but it just seems an odd choice. Again, not trolling; just curious.
Then again...
by BannedOnTheRun
Jan 18th, 2007
06:26:38 PM
TOSHI GOTTA EAT!
eh, you could also say that about...
by Charles Grady
Jan 18th, 2007
06:31:34 PM
Angelina Jolie, a definite star and pretty solid actress (draggish recent turns maybe excepted), who rather justifiably won for GIRL, INTERRUPTED, a movie that otherwise was kind of average; It's possible to give a galvanizing, force-of-nature performance in an otherwise straightforward or lightweight movie, and I'd definitely put Denzel's TRAINING DAY perfomance in that category-- it's a potboiler totally transported by a riveting lead performance. Maybe you don't see it as such, and that's fine. But plenty of good/great actors have won for middling or otherwise unexceptional movies-- Jack Lemmon for Save the Tiger, Art Carney for Harry and Tonto, etc. Hell, ROBERTO BENIGNI won BEST ACTOR at one point. No real point here, other than Hunt's win, yes, was in a well-received movie that won other Oscars, and I guess yes she got caught up in the sweep, but nothing she did before, DURING, or since AS GOOD AS IT GETS warrants an Oscar-winner. Then again, it's well known that the Actress and especially Supporting Actress categories are usually pretty what-the-fuck, anything goes. See Jennifer Hudson, who will no doubt follow her OSCAR WIN by never being in another good movie, ever, and certainly never delivering a legit big-screen performance again. I'd imagine she'll go straight to Broadway from here out. Making "BEST ACTRESS" kind of a misnomer when they do these gimmick-noms (see, any kid, unknown foreigner, or amateur actress who's disappeared into obscurity immediately following the Oscars.)
You're right, Columbine
by Garbageman33
Jan 18th, 2007
06:31:37 PM
I'm the racist. I'm the one who referred to African Americans as "the black people". I'm the one who shat on the Oscar chances of a black man in a film I haven't even seen. And I'm the one who thinks that only black people have won undeserved Oscars. I'm the racist. Good call.
Columbine...
by TheRealMoriarty
Jan 18th, 2007
06:39:49 PM
... so what about those of us who liked MIAMI VICE quite a bit, but didn't put it in the top ten? Are we stupid, too?

This is exactly what I was talking about in the beginning of this article. We all respond to movies for personal reasons, and these rankings are arbitrary and personal. Yet someone will always show up to insult anyone who liked something they didn't and drag the conversation down to the level of insulting anyone who feels differently.

Don't pat yourself on the back too hard for being "adult," especially with your screen name and your attitude in this talkback so far.

You'll never find a critic who agrees with you 100%
by Charles Grady
Jan 18th, 2007
06:46:54 PM
Mori is right about these things being not just arbitrary but wholly dependent on the life experiences one brings to the table. I also don't understand this pressing need to ALWAYS agree with critics-- You see this CONSTANTLY in the message board know-it-all world: "Roeper is dead to me because he didn't love LOTR!" "You lost me when you had UNITED 93 as #3 instead of #1!" Jesus, does anyone REALLY expect to be 100% simpatico with any critic? And isn't that the fun of it, finding DIFFERING perspectives. Even the best U.S. critics of today-- your A.O. Scott, Michael Phillips, Manohla Dargis, Ebert, Ed Gonzalez, Anthony Lane-- don't agree ALL the time. Some of the best critics are the contrarian ones, the ones that push you harder to think things through beyond #1! and THUMBS UP! and FOUR STARS! It's of course fun to nitpick each other's lists and stuff, but yeah, some guys on here make it like a PERSONAL AFFRONT if Harry or Drew or Capone or anyone's list doesn't line up with theirs right down the line.
BannedOnTheRun...
by TheRealMoriarty
Jan 18th, 2007
06:49:00 PM
... it's not a troll question at all. In fact, I'm surprised it took 100+ talkbacks for someone to ask. I sort of expected it sooner.

PRO-LIFE was never meant to be a political tract about abortion. I know that Joe Dante's HOMECOMING in Season One was very overtly political, and that was the way Joe and Sam Hamm wanted to handle their material. I wanted people to think they'd get a political piece, and then give them a monster movie instead.

I think PRO-LIFE is about 70% of what we wanted it to be, and if it really falls apart anywhere, it's in our execution of some of our ideas. Ultimately, I wanted everyone in the film to be a blowhard and full of shit. I wasn't looking to make either side of the debate "right" in the film.

I actually didn't see LAKE OF FIRE until we had finished filming PRO-LIFE, and I'm glad. There are things in this movie that would have made it much harder for me to leave my own feelings out of the movie, and they really didn't have a place in what we were doing.

I think there's a time and place for serious discussion of these issues. A movie about a girl who was raped by a monster probably is not that time or place.

kudos Mori for illustrating the difference
by BadMrWonka
Jan 18th, 2007
07:08:04 PM
between debate, satire, and exploitation. all have their place, but too often (especially in the talkbacks) everything is rolled into one. and on an issue as divisive and personal as this, it's important to differentiate.

oh hey, on a lighter note, BannedOnTheRun, if you're still interested in "Henri", it's here, along with some other stuff: http://tinyurl.com/y9t7wa
if Columbine posts again
by BadMrWonka
Jan 18th, 2007
07:13:11 PM
it will be from his laptop on the shitter where he is taking a double dump...cause Mori just tore him a new one!
The Fountain
by IMScully33
Jan 18th, 2007
07:14:51 PM
I totally agree with you, Mori. I found the critical reception of that film to be appalling. They ought to be forced to watch the Wayans brothers for the next year. Everyone's entitled to their opinion but that film didn't deserve the ridicule it received from people who should have been far more intelligent and accepting towards it.
Tony Kaye
by Garbageman33
Jan 18th, 2007
07:21:34 PM
From all accounts, he's just batshit crazy. I have a friend who did a commercial shoot with him in Hawaii. Midway through, he just disappears and his producer has to beg him to come back. He finally relents and comes back three days later with a shaved head and a vow not to speak for the rest of the shoot. Not exactly the kind of thing that engenders confidence in a nervous client. But the film comes back and it looks incredible and everyone is happy. Apparently, he just won't listen to anyone but his own misguided muse. Which might explain the three-hour documentary that no one will touch with a ten-foot pole.
Which version of final shot of BRAZIL do you prefer?
by JohnGalt06
Jan 18th, 2007
07:25:07 PM
I think it's the shorter American cut that changes the background to the sky around Sam. I really liked that and I was surprised when Gilliam's director's cut didn't do the clouds but stayed in ultra-wide shot with Sam confined. I think the point you alluded to about his mind being free was made better in the American cut (though I do like all the other additions in longer version) and by taking that away, it seemed as if Gilliam was making the point that Sam really had lost the battle afterall. I don't know, I guess it's up for interpretation...
$10 via paypal to the first person who can email me
by Deus Vult
Jan 18th, 2007
07:37:53 PM
a summary of this talkback in 25 words or less. too many posts to read. I came in too late to really make a positive impact here. but if SOMEONE could help me out, that'd be great and you'd make a wonderful contribution to humanity.

email is: infitior@gmail.com

QUESTION FOR MORI-WHAT'S A TROLL OR TROLLING MEAN?
by Deus Vult
Jan 18th, 2007
07:45:27 PM
I'm too old to be "hip" on what's hot, what's going down on the street if you will...just curious.
A troll is someone who doesn't really believe...
by Garbageman33
Jan 18th, 2007
07:46:54 PM
what they're writing. They're just trolling for a fight.
Garbageman33... troll...
by Womb2dooM
Jan 18th, 2007
07:57:19 PM
Like your mumma!
RE: Columbine
by Mr. Nice Gaius
Jan 18th, 2007
08:00:00 PM
Well, well, well. Do we have our first new breakout Troll of 2007? If so, I'll gladly sharpen my bayonet.
Baby Diego Was A Wanker!
by Manatee
Jan 18th, 2007
08:02:28 PM
Great list, Mori. Thanks. I'd really like to see "Lake Of Fire". Probably have to put it in the old Netflix queue and wait for a few years.
see now dammit nice gaius!
by Deus Vult
Jan 18th, 2007
08:09:54 PM
you're using that word, but does it really mean what garbageman says? come on, help an old guy out here!

btw manatee, netflix got cancelled in my house a year and a half ago. they're currently embroiled in a ton of bad press and negative customer reaction considering they insist on only giving the hot, new movies to the latest members to sign up, while restricting or limiting older or more frequent renters to the most sought-after movies.

oh crap-almost forgot! thanks garbageman!
by Deus Vult
Jan 18th, 2007
08:12:14 PM
I sure do appreciate the definition. and here all this time I thought I was a troll for scouring the net for scarlet johanson wet tshirt pics! boy, do I feel better knowing there's no specific terminology out there to define what I've been up to. cue hugh *sigh*
Deus Vult
by Mr. Nice Gaius
Jan 18th, 2007
08:33:29 PM
First: are you new to AICN? For some reason, your posts "sound" familiar. Did you used to have a different TB handle in the past?

Regarding Trolls: Garbageman33's description is pretty accurate. However, I would be willing to say that most Trolls actually DO believe what they say. In fact, some of them are just flat-out insane. Someone who "trolls" a messageboard is just looking to start fires/fights. For example: I could just start calling you a f*ckhead or a racist for no real reason other than to get a reaction out of you. Another classic Troll-sign is someone who constantly claims "ownage/pwnage" when they have actually done no such thing.

AICN has had some LEGENDARY Trolls in the past. However, there have only been a few second-rate poseurs in the past several months.

Liking Scarlett J means....
by chromedome
Jan 18th, 2007
08:35:27 PM
...we have something in common, Deus V
great def Gaius & chrome-there's more than that
by Deus Vult
Jan 18th, 2007
08:53:48 PM
Gaius--I've been reading AICN for perhaps 5-6 years but never posted till last week. I can recall some "inflamatory" people on here in the past but none come to mind as legendary necessarily. I literally didn't know what "troll" meant despite the obvious meanings. lastly, I'm sorry for what they did to you at the end of season one of rome on hbo.

chrome my friend, there's more we have in common than that. for instance, if you like SJ you also like Anne Hathaway, Jessica Biel, Katetherine Heigl, etc etc. These women in hollywood LOOK like women (ie: they have hips, boobs, womanly features if you will)! PRAISE GOD FOR THAT! I know the boys on this site love the likes of Keira Knightly and such, and while that's common if you're 17, once a boy turns into a man you realize having a partner in bed who's got something to hold onto is alot more fun than trying to nail a 2x4 for 20 minutes. or 20 seconds, depending on your stress level at work.

Oh yes we agree
by dtpena
Jan 18th, 2007
09:03:39 PM
This is one of the best years in movies in a while (I would daresay the best so far in the new millenium) and The Fountain might not be "the" best of the year, I also make a list of the best of the year in my head in no particular order, because imho you can't directly compare two different films. Not even an original and it's remake. Buuuut there's NO WAY the forgetable Babel is better than The Fountain or Children of Men. It's one of the most overrated movies of the year, making cartoonish characters appear in the same old same old model of Iñarritu that, at this point, after 3 fucking identical movies, has tired me. With Aronofsky I always get a totally new cinematic experience, with Iñarritu, I get the same movie with different characters. And that's why The Beatles are better than The Rolling Stones.
That was for Moriarty
by dtpena
Jan 18th, 2007
09:09:14 PM
And I might still read one or two of your reviews, after all you praised Like of Fire and Casino Royale.
I like how you stole Ryan Seacrest's catchphrase
by Garbageman33
Jan 18th, 2007
09:17:55 PM
Columbine out. Quick tip for you, Columbine. If you don't want to be construed as racist or homophobic, you might not want to use phrases like "the black people" or "the homosexuals". It makes it sound like they're somehow different from us and belong on a reservation or something. And if you don't see the difference between black people and THE black people, well, there's nothing more I can do for you. Garbageman33 out.
Hey, that Columbine is pretty funny!
by Womb2dooM
Jan 18th, 2007
09:18:56 PM
The self hating Jew, not the school thing... He's no Don Murphy, but what else do we have...? On a serious topic, Hollywood IS run by the Jews and Homosexuals who like to throw black people a bone on occasion. I also like the image of Columbine typing "Columbine out" and dramatically flicking himself away from the keyboard as he posts.
I saw the Last King of Scotland
by Garbageman33
Jan 18th, 2007
09:24:02 PM
And so did the Academy voters who'll probably end up giving him the Oscar. Which, in turn, will get a lot more people to see his incredible performance. It's strange that you're worried his nomination, versus the other four people, is the one that's gonna keep Hugh Jackman from getting the nod. Speaking of which, I'm guessing just as many people saw Last King of Scotland as The Fountain.
Oh Columbine...
by Mr. Nice Gaius
Jan 18th, 2007
09:26:29 PM
You have issued a clear invitation to the dance.
Cameron1
by stvnhthr
Jan 18th, 2007
09:27:13 PM
Sorry, I wasn't telling you what you thought. I've read long winded and preachy books (Christian and non-Christian) and COM was not one of them. At least you are reading and then giving your thoughts as opposed to being ignorant of the source material and praising COM. I have trouble getting behind any work which goes against the author's original intent. Narnia was way way way watered down from the books so it would not offend the unchurched. It was still a good film, because if you knew the books you could fill in what they left out. I really wish they would film the "His Dark Majesty" books exactly as they are written. The message is so bleak and cynical it would polarize audiences and allow people to see how depraved Philip Pullman’s view of religion and life is. I really don’t like the idea of watering down his anti-church rants because good people are going to see the film and not realize they are supporting a anti-Christian zealot.
Actually, I think that Columbine kid made a good point
by Deus Vult
Jan 18th, 2007
09:27:50 PM
As a student of politics, foreign policy, history and hollywood, I can say he's right when he points out that Jews in hollywood are self haters, which must mean they're jew self haters if that makes sense.

further to that, evidence is found in the fact that people like Barbra Steisand, a 100% bonafide hollywood Jew hates and I mean absolutely HATES someone like George Bush, despite the fact that he's sacrificed his presidency to keep Israel safe from nuts like Hussein and Ahmadinejad who are SUPER JEW HATERS. And I bet if you asked her what she thought of those two crackpots she'd say something like "a dictator who provides free health care should have been left in power, even if he did have chemical or biological weapons to use on Israel" or "that guy who runs iran cracks me up! I love the way he's always making fun of george bush, who's a big idiot by the way."

that's one thing about hollywood jews that's always confused me, is why they're so liberal, and worship guys like clinton (ie: speilberg would french clinton if given the chance, either or both of them) who would have sold israel to the syrians or iranians if made a reasonable offer.

anyway, that's it for me. I have to pee, and my wife's current issue of us weekly with scarlet johanson's big fat face will be staring up at me from the counter wherest I left her earlier today...watching...

weird
by stvnhthr
Jan 18th, 2007
09:29:02 PM
I'm sure I typed His Dark Materials,
What century are we living in?
by Womb2dooM
Jan 18th, 2007
09:29:46 PM
I can't believe there is actually a serious debate about race in the Academy awards (against the probably only black man against the four white men - why isn't the argument against white domination of proceedings?). I guess this is the world where CRASH wins a best picture award.
Hey Yack...
by Mr. Nice Gaius
Jan 18th, 2007
09:37:51 PM
If Columbine were to get banned, what are the odds he returns under the name "Beslan"?

Something tells me he's that type.

Garbageman33
by hst666
Jan 18th, 2007
09:44:44 PM
I am a Green and I support Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky and am very left, but I think you are being overly PC. When you are talking about how one group of people will interact with another group or be affected by something. Are you offended by "you people" Sorry, I just have always felt very sorry for Ross Perot for trying to address the problems felt by black people in this country and being branded a racist for using "you people" to talk about people of color. He could have abstractly discussed people of color, but he was clear in the fact that he did not face the problems that black people face in this country and he was boned for it.
Mr. Nice Gaius... "Beslan" would be too obvious...
by Womb2dooM
Jan 18th, 2007
09:45:27 PM
I like to think he'd have the good taste to evolve into something like "Tower2" or "HitlerA.OK" or even "Clitney Spears".
Also for Yack in re "pesky muslims"
by Deus Vult
Jan 18th, 2007
09:47:21 PM
while Columbine is formulating his response to your post, if you're interested in islam, I recommend reading a few books by Bernard Lewis, specifically "what went wrong" and "the crisis of islam." Lewis is a Hebrew and is VERY well respected in his field.

if you want a less romantic view of the current state of islam, check out a few books by Robert Spencer. start with "the politically incorrect guide to islam and the crusades" and then read "the truth about muhammad." both are more critical but cite historical and religious sources.

all four are good reads and well-worth the money and time. they read quickly and are great for a general understanding of the historical and current conditions in the islamic world.

not sure if columbine has read these or knows about them, but I figured it was important to you so here are you good Sir.

the guy has to be a troll
by BadMrWonka
Jan 18th, 2007
09:54:52 PM
I mean, even if he tries to make sense, if you claim Miami Vice is a work of genius, and think Pan's Labyrinth and Babel are pieces of trash, you're either lying, or you're a completely useless moron. you might not think they deserve high accolades, but if you insult people that love them, you're foolish.

bottom line, his name, using "THE blacks" etc., and movie preferences so ridiculous they can barely be believed, they all point to one thing: TROLL.

and like other trolls in AICN history, I feel bad for the guy. imagine how starved for attention you'd have to be to need negative TB attention? he's like the kid that throws the basketball over the fence because he can't play. it's pathetic. so remember that before you rip him again guys. poor guy.
RE: Halle Berry
by Mr. Nice Gaius
Jan 18th, 2007
10:02:11 PM
So, are you guys saying that she only won that Oscar because a bunch of white judges finally got to see her getting nailed, "Make me feel good!"???

What? Too much? I didn't get struck by lightning did I?

Themes in Children of Men
by Greenleaf1
Jan 18th, 2007
10:52:19 PM
I love the whole part of the story that involves the suicide kits, because it is so relevant to the story of Clive Owen's character. His life has more or less gone to shit and he represents the average man in britain at the time. After finding purpose in his life again, he gets the choice, like so many others, to go out his way and die serving a purpose. I'm seeing Pan's tomorrow, but so far the Mexican Trilogy has been great, Babel and Children of Men are near-certainties to make my top 10 list ("Children" is top 5). I'm wondering why nobody cares for Bobby the way I do, it may even be my favorite of the year.
The Fountain WAS THE BEST MOVIE of the year
by Proman1984
Jan 18th, 2007
11:36:01 PM
I loved it.
Hey Mori, I really appreciated that last sentence...
by NoPIX
Jan 19th, 2007
12:18:45 AM
about The Fountain. "Even if you think the film’s ambition outweighs what it actually delivers, I think its mere existence is cause for celebration." I do happen to feel that way about it's overall ambition vs. output. It's film I really really really have to see for a second time, but still, I respected the hell out of it.
Still no Air Buddies = Flames on Optimus.
by GibsonUSA Returns
Jan 19th, 2007
12:58:56 AM
Elitests...
No love for STARSHIP TROOPERS?
by godoffireinhell
Jan 19th, 2007
01:16:10 AM
That's one of my favorite films, period. I love that it works both as a cheesy gore flick with giangt bugs (the effects still hold up incredibly well) and as a horrifyingly prescient thesis on US foreign policy, militarism and fascism. I love that the whole movie is, basically, a propganda film as it would be broadcast a couple hundred years in the future by a fascist government to lure more civilians into the military. There are so many layers to this movie it's stunning that there are still people dismissing it as trash.
Godoffireinhell
by TheRealMoriarty
Jan 19th, 2007
01:49:18 AM
I don't think I ever called it "trash" per se. But I think it's not half as clever as it thinks it is, and as adaptations go, it's fairly rotten. Go ahead... call me a Heinlein fanboy if you must... but if Verhoeven wanted to make a pornographic propaganda fascism satire, I wish he'd come up with one of his own and called it something else.

TOTAL RECALL and BASIC INSTINCT, though... total trash.

Children of Men taken from Y: the Last Man???
by speed
Jan 19th, 2007
02:22:30 AM
I've been reading Y for ages now and only just saw the trailer for CoM and it hit me immediately. Is CoM adapted from a book?
Indeed, speed
by Ribbons
Jan 19th, 2007
02:41:42 AM
Amazon it, yo. In other news, "maturity" is overrated. I can't believe there are actually people -- on THIS website, no less -- who insult other people because their taste in films isn't "adult" enough. Whatever the fuck that means.
Thanks Ribbons...Then that would mean
by speed
Jan 19th, 2007
02:52:49 AM
Brian K Vaughan has either read CoM or had a similar idea. just goes to show that somebody has always done it before.
Jasper's death in COM
by DirkD13"
Jan 19th, 2007
02:59:47 AM
Both hilarious and moving, most original death I saw last year. The movie has definately been overrated imho, but the shot in the car is movie shot of the 00's so far.
Thanks Mori
by BannedOnTheRun
Jan 19th, 2007
03:23:36 AM
Like mr.piper.gates said, reading your response was the one "joyfull moment of my lousy life." I'm interested in what fatherhood does to one's perspectives; for a couple years after my daughter was born I'd have my buddy "screen" some of my rentals... Should I see Trainspotting? Um, not yet. How about The Sweet Hereafter? Yeah, definitely wait on that one. When you're a parent, there's horror, and then there's Horror.
And now back to your regularly scheduled trolling
by BannedOnTheRun
Jan 19th, 2007
03:27:27 AM
I've said it before regarding Halle Berry, but c'mon: no one has had more surgery to look like a white woman, with the exception of Michael Jackson. Something about that Oscar speech coming out of that altered body really grated on me.
And for the three-peat
by BannedOnTheRun
Jan 19th, 2007
04:02:05 AM
What happened to Part 1?
Children of men
by Seven Seas
Jan 19th, 2007
04:14:07 AM
Americans seem to love it, I thought it was by the numbers.those 2 action shots were worth it tho. what happened to peace?...PEACE!
TomBodet
by BannedOnTheRun
Jan 19th, 2007
05:58:30 AM
Are you suggesting that Halle Berry and Prince are in fact two different people?
colormeblind needs to read about
by just pillow talk
Jan 19th, 2007
06:21:43 AM
the further adventures of raviolli princess.

7 seas: samething that's happened to peace in our current world - it's always cast aside.

pillow out.

Now I have to shovel out and go see COM
by BannedOnTheRun
Jan 19th, 2007
08:51:38 AM
It had better not suck. I don't suspect it will and I love Clive Owen (and Ms. Moore is teh hot); however, it's interesting (after reading the thoughts on Brazil above) how much geeks prefer dystopian films (and literature). The more the future sucks, the more we like it; and the moment we smell happy ending, we think "sell out" and wonder where to get the director's cut with the downer ending. Must be something about the air in parents' basements.
nah, it's all the glue sniffing
by just pillow talk
Jan 19th, 2007
08:56:00 AM
from making model airplanes and whatnot. You'll enjoy Children of Men, no worries.
Does CHILDREN OF MEN have a happy ending?
by Nordling
Jan 19th, 2007
09:26:00 AM
Depends on how you look at it. In my opinion, it does. But it's not tacked-on. It feels earned. Sure, the ship's called TOMORROW, about as obvious a point of symbolism as Scorsese's rat crawling on the windowsill, but it works. See it.
God I hope Children of Men at least gets nominations
by Bean_
Jan 19th, 2007
01:32:14 PM
for Best Picture and Best Director, I'm starting to get worried it might be over looked..
My two pesos.....
by shellfishh
Jan 19th, 2007
02:06:52 PM
On a variety of topics

Yes, Children of Men is based on a very good book by Doris Lessing.

I have always sided with the "Brazil" has a happy ending crowd. The ONLY joy in Sam Lowry's life is his fantasy world. He escaped in the only way possible. And I how many parallels would you care to draw between Brazil and the present, with a government's wet dream of being able to blame everything, and scare the populace, with talk of terrorsits everywhere.

The Oscars have always been political. Columbine is only getting attacked (on this one issue) because he's focusing on black actors. Every Oscar season we hear the same things, he won't win because he won last year, she won't win because a Brit won last year, he doesn't deserve to win but the Academy will throw him a bone this year.

And to paraphrase "Larry Sanders"...."Do you know who runs Hollywood?" "The Jews?" "The GAY Jews!"

And yes, I'm Jewish.

Children Of Men is based on the PD James novel.
by Cameron1
Jan 19th, 2007
02:21:04 PM
Not Doris Lessing. I think you may have it mixed up with Children Of Violence which Lessing wrote.
Cameron - did you see Pans?
by just pillow talk
Jan 19th, 2007
02:26:02 PM
Curious to see how that measures of to Children of Men...
PD James
by shellfishh
Jan 19th, 2007
02:26:39 PM
Thank you. I was lazy and didn't check out the details. They're both great writers though.
Columbine
by Mr. Nice Gaius
Jan 19th, 2007
03:00:47 PM
I don't know how you "ffoend" somebody but since your opinion means nothing, it doesn't matter.
Lightening up the mood Mori ..
by synhcronu
Jan 19th, 2007
04:11:39 PM
Question for you Mori. The other day i watched pixar's 'incredibles' again, and it struck me that one of the reasons why i enjoy it so much is that it is just fun. I notice on your list that everything seems to either have some issue to address or something to impart etc. The only one that seems to have that 'pure' fun aspect to it is possibly Dreamgirls. Now is that because you did not watch any movie this year that was just real enjoyable even if it had flaws? Or do you think that for a movie to crack a best list it has to be some kind of really profound experience? I'm of the opinion that we have to (or should) deal with so much profound stuff in day to day living anyway that we some times lose sight of the fact that movies should sometimes be pure enjoyment and escapism and as a result don't give good but flawed films of that nature the profile they deserve. BTW that is one of the reasons why i did like Starship Troopers. Flawed satire it may be, but it works so well as a fun soldier-vs-bugs movie.
Clarification
by synhcronu
Jan 19th, 2007
04:13:07 PM
BTW my previous post is not meant to sound belligerent (just realized it sounds that way!!) I actually am interested in points of view on this.
Synhcronu...
by TheRealMoriarty
Jan 19th, 2007
04:45:53 PM
Didn't take it as belligerant at all, man.

THE INCREDIBLES was actually my choice for my favorite film the year it came out. I love a great fun film. I go to the movies for all sorts of moods. It's just that this happened to be a heavier year of movies, in terms of what worked for me.

Sir Guy...
by TheRealMoriarty
Jan 19th, 2007
04:55:22 PM
... I'm not really sure what "in the clouds" means, but I never said anything anywhere about "no opinions."

That's all any of this conversation is... opinions. What I said is that there is no way I'm going to tell you that my favorite films of the year are any sort of objective third-party "best" list. The fact that we all have different experiences we bring to a movie as we watch it, the fact that we all have different things we want from films... these all play into how we react to what we watch. And for that reason, my tastes and your tastes may not be the same.

Oh, For Fuck's Sake...
by TheRealMoriarty
Jan 19th, 2007
05:35:37 PM
... I've been civil this entire time, and look what it gets me. People condescending to me about how they know what's "good" and how I "cheated" on my list.

Can you show me where the formal rules for writing a list of the movies I liked this year are posted? I cheated? Really? That's fucking ridiculous. I wrote what I felt. That's not cheating... that's my honest opinion.

But by all means... nitpick me about a million pointless things like whether or not INLAND EMPIRE is number four or number two, things that make absolutely no fucking difference to the discussion of a film's artistic merits. It's far more important that I adhere to some lunatic notion that the numbering on this list is somehow sacrosanct than it is that I actually back up my opinion instead of just pissing on someone else's.

Thanks. You make it so much fun.

I don't see where anyone gets off...
by grendel824
Jan 19th, 2007
05:36:36 PM
... deciding exactly when a fetus is a human being and when it is just a lump of cells. As far as I've researched, NOBODY KNOWS and nobody can come up with a logical method of determining what is and is not murder - the only valid difference of opinion comes down to how careful one must be when dealing with an unknown like that, and while everyone has a right to "go with their gut opinion," they're morons if they think they're right and everybody else who has a different idea of when someone is a "person" is wrong. If that's you, stop arguing about being "pro-life" or "pro-choice" and start becoming a smarter person. How someone can consider themselves intelligent and still believe with utmost certainty that their position on when "life" begins is correct is incompatible with reality - they're arrogant and foolish.
Sir Guy...
by TheRealMoriarty
Jan 19th, 2007
06:04:38 PM
... no, no, really, I love it. Please continue to explain to me why I'm wrong and how I cheated.

Honestly, it's people like you who suck the fun out of doing anything. I would rather you just stop reading anything I write than come back here and continually bitch about ridiculous shit like this. Oh, no! I put 12 films on my list! The world is ending! The laws of nature have been violated!

Who cares? Just for you, next year my top ten will consist of 37 movies, two TV shows, and a handful of songs. That'll show you.

Please...
by TheRealMoriarty
Jan 19th, 2007
07:10:12 PM
... don't touch my sensitive area. My wife won't like it if you do.
Moriarty
by hst666
Jan 19th, 2007
08:47:00 PM
I think I was the first person to bring up the twelve films thing (and also use the cheat word). I was doing it in significant part to take the piss and stir the pot. I really did not expect (and maybe this is more due to others, but I'll take responsibility) for you to get quite so upset. I can't say it was completely tongue-in-cheek. I do have to admit it does bother me a little, when, for example, there's a tie for first and the next movie down is listed as second - clearly, it's third. Nitpicky? maybe, but c'mon - it's basic logic. However, I understand that it is not really important to the ideas you were attempting to convey. I also believe the part about cheating also has some truth to it. If you have 22 films you want to call out, just say here are my top 22. I could almost never pick my top 10 films or top 10 bands or top 10 songs, or top 10 tv shows. More than likely it might be my top 7 or 22 or 39 or 105. It would depend on where I was at at that point in time. Anyways, no offense intended.
Mori, the most fucked-up happy ending of all time
by georges garvaren
Jan 19th, 2007
09:04:38 PM
is from "Duel In The Sun" and you know it. I will take your silence, or response, to be an acknowledgment of falsity and with a firm handshake I bid you good evening.
Choosing Three Number Ones
by georges garvaren
Jan 19th, 2007
09:14:16 PM
is perfectly fine. Since choosing a top ten can only be achieved by attempting to retrieve emotional memories of past experiences and therefore can only be said to be as accurate as any memory can be; it is therefore perfectly suitable that Mori pick three films and declare that to the best of his knowledge he enjoyed these three films with equal reward. So cram it, Stink-palm.
Entirely laughable...
by Rakafraker
Jan 19th, 2007
09:58:21 PM
...that people could get so worked up because Mori put more than 10 films on HIS top 10. It's opinion. HIS opinion. Hey, if Mori REALLY wanted to put Step Up as HIS #1, so be it. If all 10 spots had 10 ties to it, so be it. It is HIS opinion. Until y'all have yer own black TB box, and can put up your own top however many you want, maybe you should keep it under your hat.

Mori, I'm sure your math is better than mine.

2+2 still equals 5, right?

Right?

FFS...
by RodneyOz
Jan 20th, 2007
12:52:46 AM
...are people really upset that he talked about 12 films in this article rather than ten? Get over it. I enjoyed reading about every film in this list (even Tony Kaye's one, which made me feel pretty squeamish) and would far prefer to have 'more' rather than cutting it for the sake of a really pedantic argument.
Listens to Audio Commentary
by Bronx Cheer
Jan 20th, 2007
12:59:13 AM
Jeebus Christmas, when Mr. McWeeny wrote about the ending of "Brazil," he almost quoted Terry Gilliam's audio commentary word for word. He's absolutely right about two of his three numero unos, but watch out for regurgitating stuff you hear and read. Blech.
Mind you, I am not saying that wasn't his reading
by Bronx Cheer
Jan 20th, 2007
01:06:01 AM
when he first saw the movie. It's my favorite film of the last 25 years, and "Brazil" is more relevant now than it was when it came out. Thank goodness we live in a time when "director's cuts" are released. Both "Blade Runner" and "Brazil" were far inferior films in the studio hack versions. One last thing: I loved the part about being an adopted child, and finally making your own blood family. That was powerful stuff. Good luck with the family, Mr. McWeeny.
El Numero Uno
by Bronx Cheer
Jan 20th, 2007
01:13:46 AM
I do have to say that when you are doing a list like this, you have to sacrifice some of your favorites to winnow down the list to a top ten. And then you should then have to say this is the best of the year. Pick one. They don't pick three homecoming queens. They don't allow a three-way tie for Miss America. When they hand out Oscars, they only give one Best Picture Award. My number one is "Pan's Labrynth" with "Children of Men" second. They aren't tied. "Pan's" is del Toro's first full-fledged masterpiece. I hope he gets his weight down or he'll have a shortened career due to health problems. And no, del Toro doesn't gotta eat. Not everything.
Bronx...
by TheRealMoriarty
Jan 20th, 2007
01:41:45 AM
Honestly, I've never heard the audio commentary. With certain filmmakers, I don't want them to contradict (or confirm) my reading of their film because I don't want to ruin my personal take on it. BRAZIL is my second favorite film ever, and that was my honest reaction in 1985 when I first saw it. If that's what Gilliam says, then I'm glad, but I promise... it's my original take on it.
Also...
by TheRealMoriarty
Jan 20th, 2007
01:43:03 AM
As I explained, I think there's one story that will endure from this year, and it's the story of how the Three Amigos all hit the ground running this year. To me, this moment is what my number one slot celebrates more than any of the individual films. It's not a cheat at all because I see this as one significant event.
Yack...
by TheRealMoriarty
Jan 20th, 2007
02:47:11 AM
I think any director of real passion would have a problem with the "could you switch films and still be as good?" thing. Del Toro's films work as well as they do because you're pretty much getting an unfiltered look inside that guy's head with each picture.

What I find fascinating about Cuaron is how he seems to be an artistic chameleon. I don't really see any visual similarity between Y TU MAMA TAMBIEN and HARRY POTTER and CHILDREN OF MEN, and that's rare. Most of time, guys without an identifiable style from film to film are what we call journeymen, or less politely, hacks. Cuaron is anything but. Instead, he seems to be one of those rare talents whose style shifts depending on the material. That's a gift, and it marks him as one of the guys we will no doubt be paying attention to for some time.

Sir Guy...
by TheRealMoriarty
Jan 20th, 2007
02:50:13 AM
... many people have plenty of fun at this site. But as I said, the place for hardcore pornography is not under an article about SPIDER-MAN. Do you have no sense of appropriateness? Children love SPIDER-MAN. We get readers as young as ten or eleven years old here who send us mail. The idea of one of them stumbling across you guys ranting for 400 talkbacks about fucking dinosaurs saddens me. Pardon me if I would rather you take that to an appropriate forum on our message boards.

And I've heard the same sad song about how we're corrupt and sold out for... well... pretty much the whole ten years the site has existed. And it's still not true. So cry me a river if you don't like my stance on things, but all I ask is that you (A) not be insulting and (B) consider the proper place for certain types of postings. If that ruins your fun, then I guess I'll have to cope with that.

And I wasn't looking forward to more of your postings either, so we're even.

HST666...
by TheRealMoriarty
Jan 20th, 2007
02:54:45 AM
... not upset at all by you. I think I've explained why I consider my number one spot one event and therefore not cheating, but this is all just supposed to be for fun anyway, so I hope we can just agree to not get hung up on the semantics of the list.

Sir Guy pissed me off because he wouldn't just accept that we approach things differently. He had to be an asshole about it. Go back and read the start of the article. I have no problem with someone having a different opinion than me, but I have a problem with people who won't let me have my own opinion.

Mori is RACIST!!!
by BannedOnTheRun
Jan 20th, 2007
02:58:44 AM
Yeah, all Mexican films look the same to you, don't they, gringo? (I keed.)
Babe 3: Pig Beyond Thunderdome
by BannedOnTheRun
Jan 20th, 2007
03:16:49 AM
We don't need another porkchop.
Yack...
by TheRealMoriarty
Jan 20th, 2007
03:50:02 AM
... it's time to stop trying to speak reasonably (or unreasonably) to Sir Guy. He's determined to cast me as the villain killjoy here.

If I thought he'd actually comprehend what I was saying, I'd remind him that Harry is our host. That goes for all of us, me included. He expresses himself however he chooses here. But I stand by what I said before... we have forums if Wanna Banana wants to post a filthy story for you to jack off to. Post in the appropriate place, and have all the fun you want. But this new trend of intentionally hijacking a talkback with pointless catchphrases just to see if you can clog up our server isn't funny, and if I try to gently remind you of that, I get this kind of tantrum from Sir Guy.

I love talkback. I love having a dialogue with you guys, and I love that you guys engage each other in conversation. But if suggesting that we try to actually use the appropriate parts of the site for those conversations means that I'm "humorless," then so be it.

The Great Carsoni
by stvnhthr
Jan 20th, 2007
09:53:03 AM
Children of Men the movie is totally different from the book. Please check out P.D James’s excellent novel. Honestly ask yourself if you are okay with Hollywood gutting the central themes of a story when it is made into a movie. I’m not talking about adapting it for another medium, but willingly ignoring the author’s requests so the director can squeeze his own political views into another’s work. If you are okay with it on COM I hope you have the integrity to apply the same standards to other works such as the upcoming Golden Compass, but I’m predicting now that we will see a lot of cries of censorship on these boards and I’m betting they will point their fingers at Conservatives or Christians.
I stand corrected, Mr. McWeeny,
by Bronx Cheer
Jan 20th, 2007
10:35:54 AM

and I regret my false accusation. Please accept my sincere apologies. I also agree with your attitude that there should be more civility around this place. I have been visiting this site for quite a while yet only recently have I posted on a Talkback, as the level of discourse tends toward the imbecilic. But boys will be boys. Don't take the bait from the jackals.

I am watching "A Little Princess" and it has a quality I have noticed in other collaborations between Alfonso Cuarón and Emmanual Lubezki. The camera has a lurking quality that embues it with a character of its own, as if "it" is another character in the film, similar to a third-person narrator in fiction, but different than a typical audience perspective. As with "Children of Men," we are witness to events, directed as to what we are allowed access to, but quite often allowed to have our own experience while events unfold. I don't feel the heavy-handedness of Spielberg with regard to emotional manipulation, but they are both terrific technical directors.

I think Cuarón has a brilliant career ahead of him and "Children of Men" in his calling card. Guillermo del Toro has a remarkable imagination and is an intuitive and born storyteller, and I see his technical skill starting to catch up with his creativity.

It's important to remember that films are not made by one person, and often the collaboration between craftspeople is what filmgoers think of when they speak of a director's style. One only has to consider the shift Spielberg took once he started collaborating with Janusz Kaminski, Scorsese's work with Chapman and Balhaus, Allen and Willis, and recently Cuarón and Lubezki, and del Toro and Guillermo Navarro.

I also support your three number ones
by Bronx Cheer
Jan 20th, 2007
10:47:48 AM
because those three filmmakers represent an exciting movement afoot in the world of cinema. Their films are real cinema. More than any recent rash of films, I am seeing a resurgence of the language of film. It makes sense it would come from our friends to the south, as I think the next fifty years are going to see a boom in Central and South America, in cultural and economic growth, and the next New Wave will come from the South.
Janusz Kaminski
by NuteG
Jan 20th, 2007
01:27:19 PM
"A.I." looks like "Minority Report"? For a start, the former is in widescreen and the latter is 2.35:1. Secondly, the colour palette in MR is biased much more towards blue, plus there's a lot more grain on the image. In A.I. the colours remain fairly balanced, the image quite soft, the camera-work much more steady and controlled while MR has more hand-held stuff. Surely most could look at any frame from either movie and spot the difference. Yeah, there are some trademarks common in the photography. Spielberg seems to like a lot of smoke and moody lighting, but this dates back before he collaborated with Kaminski. Ultimately, his DP is there to give him what he wants. The DP need not change, but Spielberg may just need to utilise him differently.
Mori is too silver!
by just pillow talk
Jan 20th, 2007
02:18:37 PM
Sorry dude, thought I'd jump on the bandwagon and pick on you for useless shit.
Janusz Kaminski
by BannedOnTheRun
Jan 20th, 2007
03:27:46 PM
If you say his name three times, he grants you a wish.
Mori, I e-mailed you not too long ago about books.
by Bachalon
Jan 20th, 2007
04:59:13 PM
I sent an e-mail to someone else regarding the open position to review books for AICN. I haven't heard back from you yet; I'm not certain if you received it, and I'm still interested. Don't know if you'll see this, but I can try. Thanks.
NuteG
by GregoryHarbin
Jan 20th, 2007
11:49:06 PM
"For a start, the former is in widescreen and the latter is 2.35:1."

What? 'Widescreen' means any number of things, from (A.I.'s) 1.85:1, to 2.35:1, to (Minority Report's) 2.39:1. Why don't you learn a thing or two before trying to sound like an expert?

GregoryHarbin
by NuteG
Jan 21st, 2007
05:07:17 AM
No need for hostility. 1.85:1 is commonly referred to as widescreen. My point still stands - MR has a wider frame than A.I., and that's something that immediately makes the films visually distinct. Dunno why you're insulting me. However I, and I'm sure others, appreciate the clarification. Nice work.
GregoryHarbin - follow-up
by NuteG
Jan 21st, 2007
05:16:34 AM
(Good call though pointing out that MR is in 2.39:1 and not 2.35:1. Didn't think I'd get caught on that. Still my point wasn't to assert that I'm an expert, just that the two films are visually separate from each other. Clearly you seem to know more about the subject than I. What do you think? Do you think MR looks identitcal to AI?)
Can't we all just get along
by BannedOnTheRun
Jan 21st, 2007
05:42:07 AM
and agree once and for all that AI was an absolute and utter piece of crap? I'm still pissed at what a cheat that was.
Dean Semler
by NuteG
Jan 21st, 2007
06:52:25 AM
Sort of following on from what Yack said about Cuaron making a Mad Max film. That got me thinking about "Apocalypto" and its DP, Dean Semler, who also worked on the Mad Max sequels. I think Semler did a great job shooting "Apocalypto" the way he did, in those difficult environments. Must've been a real challenge.
NuteG
by GregoryHarbin
Jan 21st, 2007
11:36:28 AM
Yeah, your point: I think you'r absolutely right in stating that MR and AI look nothing alike, although they are both great films. As you earlier stated, MR has a wider perspective, but more importantly, it was run through a filter during the DI that gave the film its signature bluish, blown-out style. A.I. is filmed more realistically, and the smaller frame is remeniscant more of storybooks than MR's Lawrence of Arabia-inspired epically.

Speilberg is known for picking DPs to his vision of a script, not simply attack every film in the same way. One needs only watch (as I did this previous year) Bill Butler's Jaws and Vilmos Zsigmond's Close Encounters back-to-back to see this in action. I believe he is currently trusting too much in Janusz Kaminski's versitility, which has gotten him into trouble with the boringly-shot Lost World and Terminal (the latter a debatable point), and hope that Indy 4 manages to look more like Raiders than War of the Worlds.

It's Hard To Follow Mori's Postings....
by Darth Fabulous
Jan 21st, 2007
12:43:42 PM
When some douchebag gets banned...actually, I enjoy the idea that "next year my top ten will consist of 37 movies, two TV shows, and a handful of songs." We never get to hear Mori discuss television in depth, particularly when he catches a bygone series in its entirety on DVD. It would be interesting to get his retrospective take on full series...I know the dude is busy as all get out, but I think it would be cool.
GregoryHarbin
by NuteG
Jan 21st, 2007
03:36:12 PM
I agree with you about "The Lost World". Aside from looking maybe a little more drab than the first Jurassic movie it really wasn't distinctive. I have to say I'm impressed with the photography in "Babel", "Children of Men" and "Pan's Labyrinth". There are similarities between the first two in terms of a pseudo-documentary style and naturalistic look, but it's so great how the look of those pictures goes hand-in-hand with the stories being told. Mori superbly makes the point above about film-makers and cinematographers can do that, who can put their first inclinations aside and serve the material.
Mori superbly makes the
by NuteG
Jan 21st, 2007
03:37:42 PM
Mori superbly makes the point above about film-makers and cinematographers [who] can do that
NuteG
by GregoryHarbin
Jan 21st, 2007
08:47:43 PM
I need to see Babel. I think your post finally solidifies that. I love Children of Men, and I just saw Laberinto del Fauno, and I liked it as well. If you say the cinematography on Babel is as interesting as those two, then it is a must-see.
I saw Pan's Labyrinth yesterday...
by Darth_Gonz
Jan 21st, 2007
10:42:34 PM
....and I fucking hated it. "Ohhh! Ofelia drifts off into the cutesy wutesy fake little dreamworld after getting killed by the evil Spaniard!" What a load of shit. The fact that it was subtitled made it even worse. The ending reminded me of the series finale of "Newhart" for chrissakes. Don't filmmakers understand that the "it was all a dream"/"the whole thing took place in a snowglobe" endings have all been done to death?
Gonz
by GregoryHarbin
Jan 21st, 2007
10:56:30 PM
Actually, evidence would suggest that Del Toro believes that the 'fantasy' world was real. Mainly, the flower growing on the fig tree, but also several things happened to Ophelia that could happen if the 'fantasy' were real.

Watch the movie again, get your head out of our ass about the subtitles (you do realize that not everyone on the Earth speaks English, right?), and pay attention. Or just go see Night at the Museum with everyone else. We don't want you in the theater when we're watching films that you aren't smart enough to understand.

Please, you don't need to condescend to me.
by Darth_Gonz
Jan 21st, 2007
11:10:02 PM
Not all of us are anal film students who get their rocks off watching a fig tree sprout a flower. I went to the movie expecting to see fantasy awesomeness that Del Toro and Cuaron usually bring (I enjoyed CoM by Alfonso, BTW), but instead I get a Spanish civil war with a minor fantasy subplot. Blech. Just BLECH.
Gonz
by GregoryHarbin
Jan 22nd, 2007
12:05:32 AM
I'll agree the film was mis-sold, but that's the fault of marketing, not Del Toro or the film.

The film was about how the girl responded to the world crumbling around her. Without the 'Spanish civil war,' it would just be another hokey fantasy epic (Eragon anyone?).

Say, Yack...
by RaulMonkey
Jan 22nd, 2007
01:23:48 AM
Out of curiosity, what's your userID in The Zone?
Re: Gonz
by Darth_Gonz
Jan 22nd, 2007
01:44:59 AM
Fair enough, Greg. Fair enough.
Cleansing hug
by BannedOnTheRun
Jan 22nd, 2007
04:02:15 AM
That's better. Would that all AICN feuds were settled in four posts.
GregoryHarbin
by NuteG
Jan 22nd, 2007
07:40:18 AM

"Actually, evidence would suggest that Del Toro believes that the 'fantasy' world was real. Mainly, the flower growing on the fig tree, but also several things happened to Ophelia that could happen if the 'fantasy' were real."

That's what I found as well. It wasn't like "The Matrix" where, at least in the first one, there's a clear distinction between real and virtual.

In PL some of the fantasy elements sort of bleed into the real story. Took me a number of viewings but I just kept finding new details that actually deepen the mystery of the story. And that's part of why I like the movie - a lot of it is open to interpretation.

And the fantasy was, far from being cutesy wutesy, often grotesque and disturbing.

Re: Say, Yack...
by RaulMonkey
Jan 22nd, 2007
08:45:10 PM
NM, I saw that you're "Yack Backer," with a space. I just hadn't been in The Zone in a little while. Welcome.
Why not call it a top 12 List?
by BigTuna
Jan 23rd, 2007
07:34:21 AM
I hate ties. It's like cheating and having a top 12 list. Roeper did that this year. To me, a top 10 is only 10 films and each has it's own position.
Mori... in regard to A Scanner Darkly
by Kirbymanly
Jan 23rd, 2007
01:39:10 PM
I liked it and think you bring up interesting points about it but I have to say that a major fault kept me from "loving it". The "reveal" in the end (don't want to give anything away). Didn't you see that coming from a mile away? Again, don't want to give anything away so I'll just say this: height.
Greengrass's best work,
by Affleckwasthebomb
Jan 24th, 2007
08:07:15 AM
We've yet to see Paul Greengrass's best work? I beg to differ. Does no one remember the genius that was Due South. What a fucking show.
Moriarty's list was interesting, a good read
by MrCere
Jan 27th, 2007
03:00:06 AM
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too long, but the man can write and think and think in his writing and he has the forum so nobody is going to edit him shorter, so good on him. WHAT I REALLLLLY wanted to say (ironic that I wrote too long in this talkback too) is that when I saw "Babel" I just wanted it to end! I was sobbing, but because I was so bored and unaffected by the film. Good performances, deadly, dull film that was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. I hope I didn't go overboard with zzzzs, I think about three would have proved the point.
where's the worst of list?
by tylerfullltilt
Jan 27th, 2007
09:47:17 AM
I'm still eagerly awaiting that one.
A GOOD LIST
by williamD
Feb 1st, 2007
03:28:07 PM
United 93 was my top pick,and there are a couple on your list that I'd like to check out.
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