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Moriarty’s Big Fat Juicy 2006 List Part One!
The Runners-Up!!

The Science of Sleep by JimmyLoneWolf	Jan 15th, 2007 06:48:59 AM
Glad to see someone finally defend this movie. I was so excited when I saw the commercials but it never caught on with the critics for some reason and I feared the worst. Looks like I can look forward to seeing this after all! Enjoyed the list.
These Nolan brothers are clever bastards by Franklin T Marmoset	Jan 15th, 2007 06:50:01 AM
I like their writing very much. I know Christopher Nolan is credited as the sole writer of Memento, but it's taken from Jonathan's story, so I think of it as a team effort. That and The Prestige are great examples of top flight screenwriting. Is brother Jonathan involved with the Dark Knight script at all? David Goyer is alright, but coherence is not his strong point. I'd love it if the Nolans (tee-hee) were working together again on that one.
4th by MrFusion	Jan 15th, 2007 06:53:12 AM
thats me i'm 4th
Happy Feet by Slugworth	Jan 15th, 2007 06:57:53 AM
For the life of me, I just don't understand all the praise for Happy Feet. It was a mess. A extraordinarily silly mess. That being said, my toddler enjoyed it too. Which is okay. He is a year and a half and isn't all that discriminating.
The Prestige by Fart_Master_Flex	Jan 15th, 2007 07:02:28 AM
I don't understand why this isn't in more best of lists. For my money, it ranks right up there with Children of Men and Pan's Labryinth. One of the best film experiences I had in 2006. Plus I think the performances are being ignored. Hugh Jackman in the dual role was just amazing.
The Prestige by McBane	Jan 15th, 2007 07:07:37 AM
The Prestige is DEFINITELY one of the best films of last year. But as Mori says, it's a very cold, calculating film. I find it interesting that many people that dislike it have problems with 'The device.' I think to truly enjoy the films you have to make a leap of faith in order to buy it. If you can, then your likelihood of enjoying the film is so much higher. Just thinking about film and the sheer inventiveness of the carefully crafted script, makes me smile. I definitely have to pick up the novel.
Interesting list, Mo. by Zarles	Jan 15th, 2007 07:15:19 AM
A lot of those flicks are in my top ten, so it's gonna be interesting to see what made yours. I'm betting Children of Men and Pan's are in there somewhere, and probably The Fountain, too...
i dunno, Presitge and Happy Feet would be in my top 10 by triplefive	Jan 15th, 2007 07:23:07 AM
then again, i didnt watch 35 movies last week alone.
and I heard Goyer is out for The Dark Knight by triplefive	Jan 15th, 2007 07:24:53 AM
and John Nolan is IN, which already means vastly superior product
disagreement="the other guy freaked out" by MemBirdman	Jan 15th, 2007 07:38:43 AM
Good to get that into the AICN vernacular.
triplefive by Franklin T Marmoset	Jan 15th, 2007 07:41:40 AM
That's good news if it's true. Nothing against Goyer, but I don't think his style meshes well with Nolan. Goyer's good when he's revelling in cheese, but the mix of serious and daft in Batman Begins didn't quite work for me, especially toward the end of the film.
Who the fuck taught you formating? by esbern	Jan 15th, 2007 07:44:45 AM
Can you at least TRY to make it organized and not a jumble fuck? At least make the list more organized and use different colors. Oh wait, you want people to have to read the whole article instead of skimming through. How egomaniacal of you.
"...underlines the things that make us great." by Reelheed	Jan 15th, 2007 07:57:52 AM
I love Americans. Also The Prestige is one of the best films I've ever seen for it not to have made the top 10 is b-zar. What can you have seen to beat it? Hmmm? ... Oh god ... please don't put The Queen into your top 10... Honestly I will lose all my respect for you.
Re: Reelheed by MemBirdman	Jan 15th, 2007 08:06:00 AM
Ooooh...don't say that. I'd hate to see Mori tell everyone how you freaked out.
stupid talback catchwords by pipergates	Jan 15th, 2007 08:47:24 AM
i'm tying to work and the silly phrase "torture porn" keeps flashing across my eyes
work and torture porn by just pillow talk	Jan 15th, 2007 09:15:51 AM
sometimes are the same exact thing. (or is it just at my work?) As I've only seen two of these movies at this portion of the list, I can't really judge them. But I did see Casino Royale, which I loved. Great action/Bond movie, with Craig freak'n awesome and Ms. Green hmm-hmm good! And I saw Talledega Nights, which I wasn't crazy about. It had a few funny moments/scenes for me: dinner table was pretty damn funny, 1st meeting with Frenchie (is that a catch-phrase or epilepsy?), Ricky on imaginary fire. But overall not that funny for me.
THE DARK KNIGHT by THE KNIGHT	Jan 15th, 2007 09:29:04 AM
If I'm not mistaken, Christopher Nolan and Goyer wrote the treatment for The Dark Knight together and Nolan's brother wrote the script with rewrites from Christopher Nolan....
The Departed was boooorring by JohnGalt06	Jan 15th, 2007 09:39:11 AM
Seriously, killing off all your main characters isn't very effective if you didn't care whethere they lived or died. I think it's very funny that Scorsese, after MEAN STREETS, RAGING BULL, GOODFELLAS, CASINO, CAPE FEAR, THE AVIATOR, etc is finally going to win an Oscar for one of his most mediocre movies.
Mori's top 10... by Zarles	Jan 15th, 2007 09:40:39 AM
...will consist solely of movies that don't officially open until 2009. All over the planet, millions of sexless dorks' heads explode, countless numbers of basements in the houses of their mothers suddenly go empty, and the world's comic book shop owners breathe a little easier as they file for bankruptcy. The end.
Great Start to Your List by hayt43	Jan 15th, 2007 09:47:01 AM
Is it me or is the worst part of this site Harry Knowles? Harry you are the Albatros around the head of your own creation. The only thing holding you up is stuff like this. A well written best of list without the immature cursing and baby talk.
Talladega Nights was no Anchorman by Garbageman33	Jan 15th, 2007 10:00:44 AM
In fact, the scene Mori mentioned is the only one that even approaches the best scenes in Anchorman.
No, Harry doesn't always cuss. by Zarles	Jan 15th, 2007 10:02:35 AM
Only when he's talking about movies. Oh, and Wesley Snipes' vagina.
Question about CURSE OF THE GOLDEN FLOWER by IAmLegolas	Jan 15th, 2007 10:23:01 AM
Now, I've watched a ton of these types of films over the past 20 years, and I've never seen more gratuitous cleavage shots than in this trailer (Gong Li mostly). Are they going for a stylized period piece? Because most of the time, in these sorts of movies, and in the time period they are portraying, the women are covered up.
Goyer is an incredibly bad writer by triplefive	Jan 15th, 2007 10:28:15 AM
when your "big break" is Death Warrant and the best script you've worked on (outside of BB with Nolan) is having Alex Proyas rewrite your script for Dark City, then you enter the realm of HACK, where you are warmly greeted by the current Mayor of HACK, Mrs. Akiva Goldsman.
How much of BB did Goyer write? by JohnGalt06	Jan 15th, 2007 10:57:13 AM
I have no idea. I do know that the screenplay for that film was extraordinary. P.S. Akiva Goldsman = man.
NUMBER FIFTEEN: THE DEPARTED??? by BGDAWES	Jan 15th, 2007 11:08:27 AM
First off, The Departed was not mediocre; The Departed was excellent. Second, what the hell is this doing on your 'Runners Up' list Mori? What the hell? Here's my stab at what your top ten list will be: 10.) The Fountain 9.) The Fountain 8.) The Fountain 7.) The Fountain 6.) The Fountain 5.) The Fountain 4.) The Fountain 3.) The Fountain 2.) The Fountain 1.) The Fountain
One other thing... by BGDAWES	Jan 15th, 2007 11:10:55 AM
Top 10 lists GOTTA EAT!
Happy Feet is definitely better than Scorcese's Departe by MattyBoomStar	Jan 15th, 2007 11:17:46 AM
Are you a film reviewer or a nine year old retarded girl? There goes the need to EVER read another word you say again. Go review TV. Just pathetic. Oh, and Talladega Nights is horrible. Seriously bad. I can't wait to read about Big Momma's House 2 is in your top three.
Again, Bravo Mori by eppdude	Jan 15th, 2007 11:24:34 AM
Some more solid film writing. Even as I glanced at the titles and their placement on your list, you explanation won me over every time. Even if we occasionally disagree. That's the sign of a terrific writer.
Happy Feet by Valebant	Jan 15th, 2007 11:28:24 AM
I'm still confused as to why anyone over 5 years of age liked this movie. I am not exaggerating when I say I saw HAPPY FEET for free and still almost walked out. The movie was all over the place. One coherent target would have been nice. Instead, we have global warming OR littering OR over-harvesting. The first encounter with humans (aside from the machinery that is stupidly abandoned on an ice shelf as if corporations would throw away millions after what - running out of gas?) is a church that has, of all things, a well-populated CEMETERY in the Antarctic. Hugh Jackman (not even from the U.S.) added himself to the long list of actors who can't do a Southern accent but think they can. Nicole Kidman was far from "adorably breathy;" I couldn't bear to listen to a single line of her dialogue that wasn't spoken like an adult. Baby-talk is for small dogs and even then it is insulting. Robin Williams (though a great voice actor) was cast as (presumably) Hispanic AND Black penguins... why not cast Hispanic and Black voice actors? Ah well. I'd even venture to agree with the politics, but I still hate the film. I'll just read my kids the Lorax.
Talladega Nights by QuinnTheEskimo	Jan 15th, 2007 11:29:04 AM
Was actually a lot funnier the second time I saw it. The first time I just thought it was okay. You should try watching it again, people. Also, The Presige, The Departed, and Casino Royale are all amazing films, so his Top Ten better be really fucking good to not have those three in it. Children of Men and The Fountain should be one and two, respectively. After that, fuck knows, but I probably didn't see most of what will be on it.
Vog: No the fuck you didn't! by jack-torrance	Jan 15th, 2007 11:41:04 AM
The Departed rules!
Go see ROCKY BALBOA by jack-torrance	Jan 15th, 2007 11:41:50 AM
You know it makes sense!
Lost me on Taladgea Nights. by rbatty024	Jan 15th, 2007 11:54:30 AM
Sorry, but with all the positive reviews I expected something more. I think Will Ferrell got a pass on that film, when he's just as unfunny as he normally is. Although I will commend the list for putting Curse of the Golden Flower up there. For me it's my favorite martial arts Zhang Yimou film.
Prestige by MikeHoncho	Jan 15th, 2007 12:07:39 PM
Was okay. I had figured out the ending by halfway through the film, and at that point it was nothing spectacular. It was predictable and easy to see through. It was well made, but they were trying to give this unbeleivable twist, and they failed. The Illusionist at least gave a twist that I did not see coming or expect.
the prestige was predictable... by teddanson37	Jan 15th, 2007 12:17:56 PM
my distaste for the prestige was that i saw what was coming a mile away. there were no secrets. there was no magic. the nolan brothers got too caught up in the act and blatantly revealed all the strings and wires hoping the sheep watching would not see it coming and upon watching a second time would feel like such morons. unfortunately, in their arrogance, they ruined the "twists" and before they could even get to the end we knew what was coming. And any moron could have figure it out. the first line is "are you watching closely?" so you know to look. And then they parade christian bale around in a terrible disguise making sure not to let him talk, in such a ridiculous attempt to pull one over on us. it doesn't work. unless you're a mindless zombie. the illusionist is more remarkable because it doesn't flaunt it's power. it does what it does and you don't even know the trick is being performed. The prestige is definetly the commercial winner. it's bigger and darker and a better ride. but when it comes down to it the illusionist is the better trick.
Prestige vs. Illusionist by ye olde shiza	Jan 15th, 2007 12:26:48 PM
When's that movie coming out? Christian & Hugh vs. Paul & Edward, cage match, wizard's hats off! I think it's funny that people say ending of The Prestige was so predictable, yet The Illusionist wasn't. For my money, though, the ending wasn't what walloped. The best thing about The Prestige for me was to see the way they analyzed obsession, and I think that both Christian Bale and Hugh Jackman did remarkable jobs playing dual-roles. Sure, I didn't grasp the ending until the end, but it wasn't the twist that won me over. Honestly, if the twist ending was shot into space, I'd be happier for it ... and no thanks to M. Night Shamalamadingdong for perpetuating the thing.
"Illusionist by Mister Man	Jan 15th, 2007 12:30:37 PM
Really disliked it, on so many levels. Paul Giamatti is unbearable. American actors faking European folks speaking in English?? Double-whammy. I'd rather have seen European actors in the film speaking English - at least we wouldn't have the "Victor/Victoria" scenario of languages.
Speaking of Giamatti by Mister Man	Jan 15th, 2007 12:33:28 PM
Paired "Illusionist" with "Lady in the Water" - agony.
You nailed it, Moriarty by rcpweiner	Jan 15th, 2007 12:35:36 PM
I pretty much never post on here, but I had to get on here after reading that paragraph about THE PRESTIGE vs. THE ILLUSIONIST. You really nailed, it Moriarty. If this was a MySpace blog, I'd given you 2 kudos, since that's the most that Tom allows.
God, I am such a moron by bralli	Jan 15th, 2007 12:36:41 PM
I'm searching for the movie, "Number Nineteen: Street Fight" in Netflix and wondering why it's not showing up...
Prestige wasnt about the "twist" ending by triplefive	Jan 15th, 2007 12:36:56 PM
esp. since they kept saying in the movie that once you know how a trick is done, it's actually rather simple and a little silly. If you watched the prestige trying to figure out what the "twist" was gonna be, then you really weren't watching the movie. And The Illuisionist is pap. It's getting a pass cause Jack's Raging Bile Duct is in it (that's the reason I saw the movie anyway).
if these are the runners-up by Kirbymanly	Jan 15th, 2007 12:44:20 PM
what's left?
Quin the Eskimo: by Barry Egan	Jan 15th, 2007 12:52:20 PM
I think a lot of movies that comedies that are heavily improvised are funnier on multiple viewings. For whatever reason, that improvisational style creates a more subtle style of humor/behavior that is more apparent in multiple viewings. That said, I thought Taladega Nights was waaaaaay too long. Movies like that should have no longer than 90 minutes. If you have a ton of great footage left then put it on the DVD.
The Prestige twist everyone's complaining about... by Lenny Nero	Jan 15th, 2007 01:02:45 PM
...is not the big twist. Spoilers! The disguise is, of course, very obvious, and probably obvious to EVERYBODY. It's the resolution of the Tesla trick and the explanation for all the bodies that caught me off guard. This is a movie with about five huge twists during the final 20-30 minutes, so seeing one coming isn't that big of a deal to me.
Talladega Nights by ye olde shiza	Jan 15th, 2007 01:05:29 PM
Okay ... maybe I'll watch it a second time to see if it gets any better. But putting it in the top-20 movies this year? I think that's a stretch. Talladega Nights might show special place in the American psyche to you, Mori, but for someone who grew up in the South, you'll look at a movie like Run Ronnie, Run or Idiocracy and think it's a little closer to home. And besides ... how many times are we supposed to watch Will Ferrell run around naked and laugh at it?
The Thing That Bugged Me About The Illusionist... by Prankster	Jan 15th, 2007 01:11:45 PM
Was the way the crowd was constantly gasping in amazement at the simplest, stupidest tricks we've seen a million times before, to the point where Burger had to resort to CG crap that could never really be performed on stage to make us impressed by the trick. The Prestige points out that both we, the audience, along with the 19th century magic fans, have seen tricks like this before, so instead of trying to dazzle us he takes us behind the scenes and gives us a very convincing portrait of the real world of stage magic. I also get annoyed by movies about how Rationalists are a bunch of meanies for not believing in The Power Of Magic, which is what The Illusionist is. I am kind of stunned to see The Departed and Casino Royale not in the top ten. I guess that's going to be one hell of a list when it comes.
Talladega Nights IS FUNNIER the 2nd time around by future help	Jan 15th, 2007 01:16:45 PM
and the deleted scenes on the dvd are even better. (is it possible that this movie could get even better and better with each viewing?...you know, like the Big Lebowski?
Street Fighter, No. 19 - A New Fragrance by ye olde shiza	Jan 15th, 2007 01:25:11 PM
Documentaries are my bread and butter! And I don't have any idea how Wordplay makes it into a top 20 list. Sure, I crossword myself, so it's interesting to see the "science" behind the puzzles, but if you face this film against something like "Why We Fight" or "Who Killed the Electric Car?," it simply cannot carry it's own weight. For one, you're dealing with "willing" participants, which means that the whole movie is a big advertisement, instead of a film that tries to balance the differing opinions. "Word Wars," the scrabble counterpart, had better characters, better insight and a more enjoyable final competition that Wordplay did, even though the production value wasn't as high. The part with the militant black scrabble player yelling at kids in the ghetto, getting pissed because even teenagers degrade him for wanting to be intelligent, was more truthful of a moment than anything in the other movie ... plus he was funny. We didn't see any of the Crossword puzzlers going to buy a Mexican hooker before the night of competition, did we? That said ... I bet "Jesusland" is in your top 10, and I haven't even seen it yet. Sounds like something to look forward to ... and has anyone seen "The Bridge," that eerie-lloking documentary about the people who commit suicide by jumping off of the Golden Gate Bridge. That shit looks intriguing.
Anyone willing to guess the Mori-Man's Top 10 by ye olde shiza	Jan 15th, 2007 01:32:27 PM
DO you win a prize? 1. Jesusland 2. Borat 3. The Queen 4. Pan's Labyrnth 5. The Fountain 6. Children of Men 7. 8. 9. 10. Oh shit ... running out of fuel here. Is it time to dig through the archives?
Woop .. by ye olde shiza	Jan 15th, 2007 01:33:28 PM
I forgot United 93. That's one of his most raved about films.
Happy Feet by scrivener	Jan 15th, 2007 01:58:13 PM
...would have been much better if it had ended with Mumble in the zoo. The whole Spielberg artificially happy ending felt really dishonest and just tacked-on... unless the whole thing took place in Mumbles head... but a cartoon can't be THAT cynical... can it?
The Departed wasn't "important"? Good! by CreasyBear	Jan 15th, 2007 02:12:52 PM
"Important" usually translates to "preachy" or "boring", which is only worth paying for the movie ticket if you're part of the proverbial choir in the first place. (How many of you atheists out there really loved the Passion of the Christ, for example?) I go to movies to be entertained, and The Departed was entertaining. If a movie's going to be canonized as "important", then it better also be entertaining on an emotional level (Schindler's List, for example). The fact that 90% of my DVD collection contains either a fight with bladed weapons and/or at least one large explosion does not detract from the legitimacy of my argument.
Importante by ye olde shiza	Jan 15th, 2007 02:35:50 PM
I think that CreasyBear's got a point ... to a point. Many of the films that hit critic's "best of" lists often fail with main audiences. For example, "The Fountain" was interesting, philosophical, and well-designed, but do I think it was entertaining? No. And should it make a best-of list in my mind ... probably not. I think it's a classic case of a filmmaker masturbating to his own cleverness. I wrote a short story once that piled on metaphor after metaphor, and I was thrilled with my own writing and description until it universally bombed when read out loud. The point is this ... many of the so-called "art-films" attempt to woo us with these lofty ideas and forget about telling any semblance of a story. "The Fountain" was such a movie. On the other hand, "Children of Men" sets out to tell the story first of this chase, and winds up revealing more about the human psyche, life and death, than Aronofsky did. I guess that's where CreasyBear and I would disagree. I haven't seen his DVD collection yet, but if it includes "The Island," I'm going to go back to being a movie-snob. You don't need explosions for an awesome movie ... just explosive performances, explosive dialogue, or in the case of Jackass, explosive diarrhea.
MICHEL GONDRY IS COOKIN THE BOOKS! by DOGSOUP	Jan 15th, 2007 02:36:26 PM
"Be Gentle with her!" "Take it Easy!" "FUCK HER!"
Ye old shiza: I get what you're saying. by CreasyBear	Jan 15th, 2007 02:53:26 PM
I guess my point boils down to this: I want it all. Good, confident direction, great acting, sharp dialogue, inspired casting, fitting music, and yes, enough verve and energy to keep the whole thing rolling along. Ideally, I would rank all movies up there with L.A. Confidential, Gladiator, Aliens, Man on Fire, and some other movies that give me everything I want in a movie. Most movies are lacking in one or more of these categories, though, and, stuck with such a choice, I would rather see a goofy, fun flick like the Fifth Element than something like Babel. If I want heavy, depressing issues, I have the real world and cable news for that. Movies are for fun.
you're in luck CreasyBear! by just pillow talk	Jan 15th, 2007 03:13:53 PM
a little movie is coming out soon called "Transformers". It's got the whole package: explosions..... Um, what were the other stuff you wanted?
everyone stfu about prestige by white owl	Jan 15th, 2007 03:25:23 PM
I haven't seen it yet!! But I DID see Children of Men for the 3rd time today. Still rocks my socks. I'm thinking, for Mori's Top 3: Children of Men, The Fountain, Pan's Labyrinth, in no particular order, or in fact, reverse order.
The Eye of the Beholder by ye olde shiza	Jan 15th, 2007 03:28:32 PM
What makes a great movie? Shit, I dunno. But I can tell you what pisses me off instead - movies with Sean Penn in them are right out of the window. He's not a genuine everyman actor, no matter how hard he tries. "All the King's Men" proves that. No one believe Sean Penn's a man of the people. Those quirky little gems! I fucking hate movies like "Me and You and Everyone We Know" that seem to push "quirkiness" into a level of total non-reality. They're not genuine, and watching them is painful. It's like the script-writer just made a bunch of characters that are "weird" for the sake of appealing toa bunch of other hack-writers in Starbucks, who sit with their brooding faces, their macchiatos and laptops, pounding away. Cliches. AHHHH!! I wish I could kill all the people who make "quirky little gems." On a lighter note, I will sit down and watch a shitty horror movie like "The Gingerdead Man" before I sit through another "Thumbsucker." And I wish the critics would stop adoring bullshit. I like movies that are in your fucking face, whether you want them to be or not ... balls out in some respect. No reservations or apologies. No attempts to please an audience, no holds barred. For me ... the movie that had everything this year was "Children of Men." It was gritty. It was intense. And it had a great storyline, great acting and incredible resonance. I'm sure "Apocalypto's" going to be similar. And so is "Jesusland." As far as comedy goes, I guess that's what pissed me off about "Talladega Nights." Sure, it got some laughs out of me, but it's a fucking formula of a movie. And "Borat" and "Jackass" were far superior movies.
this atheist liked the passion because... by white owl	Jan 15th, 2007 03:30:36 PM
i always thought jesus was middle-eastern/brown-skinned fellow, but the jew man confirmed his whiteness to me
Indeed, 'Talladega Nights' was no 'Anchorman' by Ribbons	Jan 15th, 2007 03:36:36 PM
Which is why I actually liked it. Gary Cole should have been nominated for a Golden Globe, but oh well.
The best thing about a Mori article by BGDAWES	Jan 15th, 2007 03:43:42 PM
is when he comments about all the completely adolescent and immature names the talk-backers call him. That said, Mori you're a real Anal Probe for some of the films you've selected for this list.
just pillow talk: "Transformers"? What's it about? by CreasyBear	Jan 15th, 2007 03:50:09 PM
Sounds way too childish and puerile for my tastes, but I may give it a shot. As long as it doesn't come out the same weekend as "Disillusionment of the Heavy-Laden Soul", a poignant and heart-rending film that takes place in a bleak, dystopian Third World country, exposing American policies of de-globalization (or something like that). That's what I've got circled on my calendar.
CreasyBear by ye olde shiza	Jan 15th, 2007 03:57:24 PM
Not sure which movie you're making fun of there (sounds an awful lot like 'Blood Diamond'), but in case you haven't seen "Children of Men" yet and the fact that many critics are raving about it's dystopian blahhbity-blah, I would suggest making it the next movie you see. Because hands down ... you mentioned things like Man on Fire, Gladiator, etc., and not one of them even has a dream of achieving the intensity or action that Cuaron's movie achieve in two particular spots. Those scenes alone chop the heads off of every other Highlander in the filmmaking universe and will win over any detractors.
Lenny Nero, re: 'The Prestige' (SPOILER WARNING) by Ribbons	Jan 15th, 2007 04:01:44 PM
Ironically enough, I figured out the trick behind Tesla's invention as soon as they stuck Jackman's top hat under the machine (and then assumed that the stiff in the glass tank was indeed not him), but completely didn't see the identical twins thing coming. I was like "What, can he teleport or something?" They literally hid that trick in plain sight, too.
ye old shiza: Sarcasm aside, CoM does look good. by CreasyBear	Jan 15th, 2007 04:06:43 PM
I'll be checking that one out. And I wasn't thinking of Blood Diamond, though I can see why it might've seemed like it. That's actually another movie I do want to see. (And not just because there's 'splosions in it.)
Explosions by ye olde shiza	Jan 15th, 2007 04:18:23 PM
So, hands down ... what's the best movie explosion ever? I'm thinking something from Die-Hard ... but then the geeks would say something like the Death Star exploding.
I like the bridge explosion in The Wild Bunch. by BGDAWES	Jan 15th, 2007 04:27:22 PM
Sam Peckinpah GOTTA DRINK!!!
THE PRESTIGE Argument (Major Spoilers) by Mr. Winston	Jan 15th, 2007 04:39:45 PM
When I left the theater after THE PRESTIGE, I was disappointed, though I couldn't immediately figure out why. A few days later, I decided I thoroughly disliked it. Then, a few days later still, I realized something that revolutionized the ideas in the film for me and I now consider it a good film with some excellent parts, but certainly not one of the best of the year. Here's the thing with the "Twin Twist": I was one of the many who figured out the twist about halfway into the film, and I'm a total idiot. I NEVER see these things coming, ever, so if I figured it out then the fact is that it's been executed poorly. However, if you're going to sit here and tell me that you figured it out because Bale's "other" costume was transparent, you're almost assuredly a fucking liar. The costume wasn't the problem. The problem was that it was treated awkwardly and absolutely given away during the scene where Bale visits himself at the merry-go-round. At first, knowing this ruined the rest of the film for me. Looking back, it created some false blinders, and I wish I'd been able to keep with the story because I missed something important. To me the power of the film lies not in the twists (I didn't get anywhere near hitting on the Tesla Twist - that caught me totally off-guard), because there were too many and the film's ultimate fault lies in trying to constantly one-up and out-clever itself. What really caught me was when I realized that, every single day, Jackman's character woke up realizing that he was going to die that night. True enough he would be instantly reincarnated, but what does that say about self-awareness? And what about the first leap of faith to actually make test that out? Going back and watching the film again with this in mind I found it to be a masterstroke that most people missed. It elevated it to a vastly more layered and cerebral film to THE ILLUSIONIST, though out of the two I'd see THE ILLUSIONIST again just for Rufus Sewell, who's fucking awesome. THE PRESTIGE also loses points for killing off Piper Parabo so quickly. Anyway, my ultimate point is that I understand people who thought this was the best film ever and I understand people who didn't dig it at all - and that's pretty rare.
Prestige is the winner! by ye olde shiza	Jan 15th, 2007 04:42:53 PM
Why? Well, there were far more explosions in it than in the Illusionist. Now, if they'd shown Norton prematurely exploding into his pants in the Jessica Biel love-scene, maybe it'd be a different outcome ...
Tom Bodet by ye olde shiza	Jan 15th, 2007 04:44:39 PM
I have no idea what movie you're talking about with the emperor, tomatoe, etc. Enlighten me, please!
SPOILER: "The Prestige" by JohnGalt06	Jan 15th, 2007 04:56:23 PM
The twist concerning the Christian Bale was not only that he accomplished his trick with a twin but that the two men shared one life together, hiding the secret from even their wives/lovers. That was the intriguing part of that subplot. But it was fairly obvious, especially since the Bale character was constantly followed by someone the same height who had a heavy beard and wore a hat. If you read the novel, you'll have a greater appreciation for what the Brothers Nolan did with the movie--not because the books fills in any gaps but rather because, although I like the book, it seems completely unfilmable and Nolans took huge liberties with the story to make it work on-screen. Oh and David Bowie rocks.
More Prestige debate by MikeHoncho	Jan 15th, 2007 04:58:26 PM
Beyond the twist being obvious (and yes all twists, not just one, including the twin Tesla twist), I thought the general idea of what was going on is stupid. Hugh Jackman's character decides that he is going to kill himself every single night just to be the better magician and have a better show? There is no motivation there and it is a ridiculous idea, and when the movie attempts to make these characters human that motivation is ridiculous. I am a huge Nolan fan, but this dissapointed me on many levels. I thought it was well put together, but sloppily written and in the end too silly. But the motivation for Jackman to do that is stupid and completely unbeleivable, making the movie complete fiction and making it so that you can't care about the movie at all. In the end the movie was fun, but nothing more and definately not one of the best movies of the year.
Unbelievable by ye olde shiza	Jan 15th, 2007 05:02:38 PM
Sounds like you should watch it again ... half of the movie was dedicated to showing just how far Jackman's desperation would take him. His competitveness. His escalation from thinking of killing his former friend to killing himself simply to make a good show is not that hard to believe. What else did he have to live for? He obviously had money. He had no more love in his life. All he had was desperation to become the best. To leave a legacy of his ultimacy. I think you should watch the movie again, Mr. Honcho.
Still... by MikeHoncho	Jan 15th, 2007 05:05:06 PM
Even though he was desperate, killing yourself every single night is absurd. Revenge is beleivable, but killing yourself over and over is not good motivation.
Mr. Winston (PRESTIGE SPOILERS) by Ribbons	Jan 15th, 2007 05:05:54 PM
Both Bale's and Jackman's characters suffered greatly for their "art" (Jackman's probably moreso, considering he drowned every night); one of the things I appreciated about the movie that the book actually didn't play up so much was the metaphor of the spare pigeon being squashed by the collapsing cage. All this pain and brutality in the service of cultivating an aura of grace and mystery; is it the necessary ingredient behind movie magic as well? I don't know if that's what the Nolan Brothers were driving at, and truly, I don't know if there was any real "message" to the film, but the sacrifices that Bale and Jackman made in the name of their profession were at times quite vivid and shocking. Now, because I don't know how to do paragraph breaks, here's some of this: **************** High-five also for liking Piper Perabo. Speaking of her, I wonder if Angier thought of how her character had died when he drowned himself every night.
Street Fight-er by unmask	Jan 15th, 2007 05:07:06 PM
Great pick on Street Fight. I think it bested the two "green" docs of Who Killed the Electric Car? and An Inconvenient Truth, as well as the two music docs of Devil and Daniel Johnston and Be Here To Love Me. I'm geussing the #1 doc is something I haven't seen: Deliver Us From Evil, The War Tapes, or Iraq in Fragments.
Legacy by ye olde shiza	Jan 15th, 2007 05:13:51 PM
I dunno ... everyone's got their own take, but for me, the guys in The Prestige didn't care about living normal lives. Edward Norton, in the Illusionist, seems to put more stock in his love than in his work. What worked for me about The Prestige was that is was a movie filled with masochism. I completely believe Jackman would kill himself every night in order to prove, though a legacy, that he was the better magician. And the idea of him drowning was a good barometer for where he was, mentally. People kill themselves all the time in real life (moreso than murder even), and I'm sure they're not doing it for as good a reason as Jackman's character is - immortality through name-alone. Why's that so unbelievable? Anywho ... I'm going to check out that clip now, and then watch some "Down in the Valley." Norton's best two movies for me are still "Fight Club" and "American History X."
Ribbons & ye olde shiza by Mr. Winston	Jan 15th, 2007 05:18:29 PM
I agree with both of you completely, specifically on the points that A) most of the film was dedicated to showing just how far Jackman would go - the rest of humanity be damned - to top Bale as a magician in the eyes of the public and that B) that there's not a sociological message here per se, but rather that it's a sometimes-fascinating look at how some will cripple themselves for such a perception. In the end, for me, it was the 10% of the script that I found lacking that sadly soured the rest of the story for me - especially when all the chicanery at the end didn't feel necessary. Ribbons, great point about Parabo and Jackman. That makes me think even more... (BTW, to do a break, type this () symbol, again with no spaces, at the end of the paragraph you want to end. Once drops your next line of text down a space, the next gives you one whole space in between paragraphs.)
Ribbons by TheRealMoriarty	Jan 15th, 2007 05:19:31 PM
I think he not only thought of her character when he drowned every night, I suspect it is the self-imposed penance he is paying for allowing her to die in the first place. Even during his time with Olivia, he never recovers from the loss of his wife.
Well That Didn't Work by Mr. Winston	Jan 15th, 2007 05:23:11 PM
Ignore my last paragraph - that couldn't have possible gone any worse. Let me try again: 1. At the end of the paragraph you want to break, type the "less than" symbol found on the comma (,) key. 2. Without spacing, type the letter "b". 3. Without spacing, type the letter "r". 4. Without spacing, type the "greater than" symbol found on the periond (.) key. Typing one of those will drop your next paragraph down one space; typing two will give you a full line of space in between the two paragraphs. This is literally the only html trick I know, and fuck me if this doesn't work because I give up.
Penance by ye olde shiza	Jan 15th, 2007 05:24:02 PM
Agreement, completely. My friend, who's a bordering-on-insanity-runner and health-nut has this poster on his wall that says that every five miles is "atonement" for his sins, etc. Christian Bale has always reminded me of him, not only because they look sort of alike, but also because of the amount of discipline it requires to do what Bale does ... from "The Machinist" onto "Batman." Nolan even talked about that, and I think it's one of the reasons why Bale is in "The Prestige." I think Nolan really wanted to emphasize that these guy's were fighting to make themselves mythological. In the beginning, Jackman doesn't share that passion, but after the death of the Perabo ... he sure as shit donates his entire life to bettering the man who took her away from him. Suicide was just the last step in a long line of self-mutilating steps for Mr. Jackman.
Breakin' by BannedOnTheRun	Jan 15th, 2007 05:26:33 PM
2 Linebreak Boog aloo!
The Prestige Twist? by chaplinatemyshoe	Jan 15th, 2007 05:38:01 PM
There was no twist. Both twists one could get halfway through. Thus we were left with 'two' ethically challenged losers in a battle to the death. So what? Movie rule #1: give me characters to care about if you're not going to entertain me. The Prestige did not provide characters I could give a damn about thus having figured both twists out an hour into the damn thing, I was bored to tears with the vindictive monologues towards the end.
I'm of the belief though that... by chaplinatemyshoe	Jan 15th, 2007 05:40:44 PM
Christopher Nolan could film 2 hours of a dog taking a crap, and some people would still call it brilliant.
The word I keep struggling for! (mild spoilers) by ye olde shiza	Jan 15th, 2007 05:44:15 PM
Obsession. Ahhh ... been trying to think of this one forever now. Everything that happens in "The Prestige," besides the mechanics of the tricks, can be boiled down to obsession. The obsession of two men, well ... three men, to best one another, to attain some god-like ability in the eyes of mankind. And in that respect, it becomes a much more interesting movie than the other magician piece. We see Jackman's descent into obsession. Bale's cutting off of his own finger. As pointed out, the metaphor of the bird in the cage is nice, too, and it's very funny and complex if you think about it for a while. Jackman is originally the guy who wants to get the bird out of the cage safely in order to do the trick, right? Bale cares not at all as long as the magic is achieved. Well, in the end, Bale (through use of his twin) is like the bird who escapes the crushing cage while succeeding with an illusion. Jackman is the bird who gets killed every night in order to stun the masses. I think it's funny to think about that reversal of ideologies late in the film ... it's Jackman's headfirst dive in his obsession that causes him to throw his ideas about life being sacred aside. It's obsession that causes him to kill himself over and over again, and also penance for his lost love. We're beating this movie to death, but it's nice to actually talk about a movie instead of just screaming random catch-phrases, isn't it?
juhuu. by AllieJamison	Jan 15th, 2007 05:45:41 PM
. Thanks, MrWinston!!
ye olde... by TheRealMoriarty	Jan 15th, 2007 05:53:52 PM
... I think you just described my notion of Heaven: "it's nice to actually talk about a movie instead of just screaming random catch-phrases, isn't it?" If only...
just read the Prestige by The Decider	Jan 15th, 2007 05:57:45 PM
Haven't seen the movie, but I can tell you that most of the "twists" concerning the doubles are obvious throughout the novel. It reminded me very much of an old fashioned horror/scifi story along the lines of Frankenstein - how a man's obsession can drive him to horrible ends.
Not to jinx this moment, but ... by ye olde shiza	Jan 15th, 2007 06:11:18 PM
It seems like the whole catchphrase thing is finally dying down a little. I'm sure there'll be someone who comes on and says something insane in just a minute to prove me wrong, but ... Overall ... this is like that moment that Nirvana's "Smells like Teen Spirit" came on the radio. No longer did everyone worship Bon Jovi, David Lee Roth and MC Hammer's magical hip-hop shoes. Logic, poetry, thinking, guitars that didn't just play for hours on end for no reason ... The whole catchphrase thing was a relief from thought for about 10 seconds, but it was three weeks too long. And it's about time people started talking seriously about these here movie-films all over again. All the catch-phrasers were trying to turn this place into Brian Cox's Mastubatorium.
I Have To Say by Mr. Winston	Jan 15th, 2007 06:11:37 PM
Talking about THE PRESTIGE is making me think about it all over again. I might have to revisit a third time to see if I can pick up the undertones (and overtones) you guys have picked up. I'm more than willing to admit that a good chunk of this might have gone over my head thanks to some hiccups in the script - maybe I'm not giving it the credit it deserves.
More PRESTIGE talk. SPOILERS!!! by Lenny Nero	Jan 15th, 2007 06:21:32 PM
I defy anyone to tell me they saw that twist coming--that Hugh Jackman was killing himself night after night and keeping the bodies lined up as a graveyard of his soul. THIS is the twist I am talking about, and it's a fucking doozy.
Mori, right on about Crash by BadMrWonka	Jan 15th, 2007 06:24:04 PM
Ken Turan (who I still hate for his retarded Fight Club review) really said it best... "For "Crash's" biggest asset is its ability to give people a carload of those standard Hollywood satisfactions but make them think they are seeing something groundbreaking and daring. It is, in some ways, a feel-good film about racism, a film you could see and feel like a better person, a film that could make you believe that you had done your moral duty and examined your soul when in fact you were just getting your buttons pushed and your preconceptions reconfirmed." Amen, brother, and Amen, Mori. Crash is a hackfest, Haggis is a hack. Xenu is a bitch.
THE PRESTIGE GOTTA EAT! by Ribbons	Jan 15th, 2007 06:24:47 PM
Just kidding :-P
I'll Never Understand the CRASH Hatred by Mr. Winston	Jan 15th, 2007 06:32:17 PM
Never. I hate to revisit this again, but it just bears being mentioned... If you think that film is about racism you've totally missed the point. Totally. Again, I'm not really that bright, but I wasn't misled for one second that the story had anything to do with racism off the most obvious, basic facade. There are other reasons you could dislike the movie, I suppose, and those could be debated, but to claim that the movie is "about racism" is just dumb. Now all of that is in direct response to Ken Turan and not anyone else, but I find that, generally, people who dislike the movie don't cite any real reason other than that, "Real racism doesn't happen like that."
The Prestige's greatest magic trick: by Spandau Belly	Jan 15th, 2007 06:59:51 PM
Scarlet's ability to keep you from noticing she's not attractive from the neck up!
Since there's no Golden Globes thread, let me say here: by FluffyUnbound	Jan 15th, 2007 07:11:53 PM
For the first time in my life, I was entertained by something Justin Timberlake did. Mocking Prince - and doing it as an ad-lib - is more than I ever expected from him.
Whoa ... grouping Candlebox with Nirvana ... by ye olde shiza	Jan 15th, 2007 07:33:23 PM
Now that's a magic trick! Better yet ... imagining that Hanson and KoRn came from their bleached womb? You speak of backlash, but what was the 80s backlash for? Neil Young, Jimi Hendrix ... no, wait ... that was disco. How's that fair? A decade of disco, and THEN a decade of Flock of Seagulls, Robert Smith, and Def Leppard's One-Armed Drummer? My god ... when Nirvana came along (say what you will), it changed the face of music for the better. Let's have a lyric to lyric challenge between Skid Row and Pearl Jam just to see ... You 80s dwellers thrived like catfish on the feces at the bottom of the cultural lake. Sorry to break it to ya. Go snort a line of coke off that girl's ass, and it will all be okay.
Then what IS Crash about? by Lenny Nero	Jan 15th, 2007 07:36:19 PM
And what did it do that Grand Canyon did better?
Rantology by ye olde shiza	Jan 15th, 2007 07:41:46 PM
Sorry Mr. Bodet, But to anyone who really liked the music back then, Candlebox always came across as the Nickelbacks of their time ... tastelass hacks that wrote idiotic songs. And I can't bear to hear their names. Speaking of which, I saw David Lee Roth in a little bar in Covington, LA. It's hilarious to see him struggle for notoriety, still, while he looks decimated and beaten to death by life.
I Thought It Rather Obvious... by Mr. Winston	Jan 15th, 2007 07:56:33 PM
That CRASH was about how we find ourselves in a cycle, villainized and then redeemed - often, however, not by anything that we control. It's about how an erred first impression can have a butterfly effect. And it's about how, without thinking about it or ever knowing, what you do can impact a whole series of other people - whether that was your intention or not. That's my best movie critic answer. I'll stick by it, even though I'd be vomiting if I ever submitted that without a little bit of jest. It looks to me a hell of a lot like racism was used as a shell, a subtext to get people thinking about the effects we have on each other - not that "racism is all over" was the point of the whole deal. I thought it brought that idea home extremely well. And sure, there are other movies that have approached the subject. GRAND CANYON was one, but thought I liked that film...I always found it a little muted. Maybe it was the 80s, I don't know. I don't think CRASH is perfect, but I liked it well enough, thought the dialgoue was fantastic, but also thought it pandered a little too often. For my money, in this genre, I'll take SHORT CUTS, but CRASH is a damn fine film.
I accept your explanation. by Lenny Nero	Jan 15th, 2007 08:08:45 PM
Grand Canyon, however, was the 90s.
Crash by ye olde shiza	Jan 15th, 2007 08:09:09 PM
Hating "Crash" is the new vogue for the critics these days, I guess. I still enjoyed the film and thought Ryan Philippe and Matt Dillon's characters in particular made the movie. That stuff was very true to life.
80's: a golden age of music by unmask	Jan 15th, 2007 08:10:16 PM
Sounds like someone is bitter about grunge's death many a moons ago. Sure Nirvana and Pearl Jam are incredible bands, but they couldn't save grunge by themselves. Why is it that 80's songs permeate commercials, trailers, and our movies of today? You can throw away all the hair metal bands of the 80's and still pound for pound the 80's was a golden decade of musical innovation. Have you listend to the radio now? If you're not listening to an 80's cover, your hearing ghetto booty or something straining to be original. The UK is now way ahead of us in terms of innovation. I'll take Michael Jackson and a young Madonna anyday over 50 Cent and Justin Timberlake. Also, the most fucking catchy songs ever were born in the 80's. Techno and rap began to thrive. It allowed acts like U2, Michael Jackson, Prince, Depeche Mode, Talking Heads, and Duran Duran (to name a few) to all coexist. America needs to wake up and catch up with the rest of the world now.
Still haven't seen CRASH. by JohnGalt06	Jan 15th, 2007 08:10:38 PM
Don't want to see Crash. Will never see Crash. If I want to be lectured to by a Scientologist, I'll tune into Tom Cruise during his next visit to the Today Show.
Talledega Nights was so awful.. by BeatsMe	Jan 15th, 2007 08:13:58 PM
I couldn't get through it on a plane.
Larry Nero by Mr. Winston	Jan 15th, 2007 08:22:10 PM
You're right, '91. Had to look it up, though. Seems like it was made earlier than that, doesn't it? Still, I'll stand by my very mild anachronism. To use a more modern slang term, it always felt to me like it was just barely afraid to "go there". That make sense? At any rate, it's still a very good film.
unmask by ye olde shiza	Jan 15th, 2007 08:23:31 PM
Sure ... a little bitter about the death of those musicians, and I'm not denying that the 80s had great moments. Hell ... Metallica and Megadeth made great music when they began, and that was in the 80s ... "important" music. And I'm not defending today's music either, which is (save a few examples) a mockery or redubbing of Queen's theatrics, mongoloydish interpretations of Punk Rock, or straight-up assinine gangsta rap. Again though, every decade has it's salvation. And Tool is singlehandedly saving rock these days from total idiocy. Bands like Lifesavas and artists such as Andre 3000 are keeping the spirit of hip-hop and funk afloat. You can try to redirect my comments about the 80s sucking ass all you want, but deep down, you know it's true. That's what "American Psycho" was all about ... a whole decade of vapid, idiotic self-love.
ye olde and best tunes of '06 by unmask	Jan 15th, 2007 08:53:43 PM
Damn ye olde, you have a knack for descriptive phrasing. Even if I can't agree with you on everything, you got me laughing. While we're on music here's my best of music for '06, and notice that almost none of it you'll here on the radio: Best Rock Album 1. TV on the Radio - Return to Cookie Mountain 2. Howling Bells - Howling Bells 3. The Editors - The Back Room 4. Joseph Arthur - Nuclear Daydream 5. Supersystem - A Million Microphones Best Electronic Album 1. Nathan Fake - Drowning in a Sea of Love 2. Thom Yorke - The Eraser 3. Logistics - Now More than Ever Best Rap Album 1. Ghostface Killah - More Fish 2. Subtle - For Hero: For Fool
"Screw second" by Dr Gregory House	Jan 15th, 2007 09:28:38 PM
Stroker Ace > Talledega Nights. Go rent it. Lugs Harvey still gotta eat...
Crash by BadMrWonka	Jan 15th, 2007 09:52:17 PM
"to claim that the movie is "about racism" is just dumb" -Mr. Winston "The all-encompassing theme of the film is racism." -IMDB.com ""Crash" tells interlocking stories[...]all defined in one way or another by racism" - Roger Ebert "...[an] unflinching look at the complexities of racial tolerance in contemporary America." - Crash's official website
Plant! by Snow Is Fun	Jan 15th, 2007 10:21:14 PM
Just sayin'...
Add BadMrWonka to the Pile by Mr. Winston	Jan 15th, 2007 10:26:00 PM
There are so many dense people on these boards. 1. Your first quote doesn't say anything different than I'm saying. The all-encompassing theme of the film IS racism; it's the subject that relates all of the stories in the film. That's a long way from the story, at its core, being about racism. Would you tell a friend that THE NATURAL was simply "about baseball" or that THE PRESTIGE was "just about magic"? If you did you'd be missing the point. 2. See above. Each of the individual stories are defined by racism. That doesn't mean that's what the movie is about. I feel like I'm repeating myself. Maybe it's because I'm repeating myself. 3. You notice how they threw the word "complexities" in there? Does that perhaps suggest to you that maybe there's a core idea in here that's deeper than racism? Mull that one over for a bit. Try not to hurt yourself. God help some of you.
Finally some love for Breaking and Entering by Bungion Boy	Jan 15th, 2007 10:44:35 PM
I saw that movie about a year ago and was pretty impressed. Since then it's clear that the studio just has no idea how to market the film. I know there's a trailer but I haven't seen it at a single movie. And I go to a lot of movies. It's a fine film and deserves more than a small release in January.
Mr. Winston by BadMrWonka	Jan 15th, 2007 10:55:21 PM
please go see Babel, a film that is as good as Crash thinks it is, and has convinced so many that it is. for the record, throwing out words like "dense" and "dumb", to describe those that have a different opinion, interpretation or response to a film than yourself, does little to convince anyone of anything other than the weakness of your viewpoint. even though I can't claim to be unbias, since I am so completely against Scientology, in its tenets and its brainwashing, and Haggis is just the most recent beneficiary of its subcutaneous influence in Hollywood, here is my take on Crash: I believe there is a strong separation between intention and accomplishment. but sometimes in film, an audience can be tricked into thinking that one is the other. Crash wants to say more than it does, and wants to be better than it is. to accomplish the trickery, you simply take 20 characters of varying races and varying attitudes about race relations run around and fall into incomprehensibly orchestrated and unlikely scenarios, then throw in some painfully unrealistic pseudo-witty dialogue, and manipulative emotional scenes. people come away from this thinking that if they haven't actually learned something, or the film hasn't actually made a statement, it must be because it's SO meaningful, it can't be encapsulated in words, right? race relations are complicated in LA! you imply (rudely and clumsily) that there are deeper issues here than racism and race relations. but what is there? every issue presented, every interaction, every relationship, is saturated with racial issues. the movie claims, pretentiosly, to be about what is below the surface of race relations in America (well, LA...but that's all that America is, right?) but there is nothing below its surface. it's Magnolia without the heart, Babel without the subtlety, Short Cuts without, well, Robert Altman. all it is is 2 white Hollywood scientologists that think they have something to say about racism. I think Paul Haggis was out of his element the moment he stopped writing for Walker, Texas Ranger.
Music, Movies, oh yeah ...Unmask! by ye olde shiza	Jan 15th, 2007 10:57:36 PM
Just have to say it: Return to Cookie Mountain is such an awesome album. It's the numero uno on my MySpace page's Top 10. So, there you have it ... we don't agree about the '80s, but that doesn't mean we don't see eye to eye on what the good music is today. On the rock of Portland radio station, they even had a phone-in contest to see which decade was the best - 60, 70, 80, 90, or 00. Didn't hear who won, but it had me laughing, thinking about this message board. Now, I'm going to bury myself in SunChips and watch "American Movie." I hope it's inspiring.
Damn you Jar Jar Binks by darthbinks1220	Jan 15th, 2007 11:27:30 PM
Damn you Jar Jar Binks
BadMrWonka by Mr. Winston	Jan 15th, 2007 11:31:45 PM
I'll stand by what I said: if you're claiming the film is "about racism", then I do believe you're dumb. And you apparently didn't read or didn't process my previous statements, which makes you dense. I'm not at all against a different opinion about this film. If you didn't like it - and you presented a few reasons as to why you didn't, most of which seem based in the fact that Haggis is a Scientologist, something I wasn't even aware of and couldn't care less about - that doesn't make you stupid or dense in the slightest. In fact, I was very clear in stating this before. You thought the dialogue was pseudo-intellectual? Fine, I disagree. In fact I disagree with most of what you're saying, but that doesn't inherently make you stupid. Here's what I would ask about this film: why is there so much anathema towards the way the film was cast (ie what races were used)? If you didn't portray characters from varying races with varying viewpoints...this kind of story wouldn't be very interesting. I've heard some people complain that, "Everyday racism doesn't exist on these levels...it's a shout across the street or a strange look in a grocery store." Fair enough...but you can't make a movie about that. Just because someone's collected worse acts into a film doesn't mean they don't exist. For that matter, this film isn't trying to tell us that that these people are the only people in the world. These aren't the only viewpoints that exist. Why some try to reduce it to such is beyond me. I don't think it ever tries to make a commentary on race in America at large - it's a commentary on the mindsets of these people in that location at this point. Why is that so difficult to digest? You say that the coincidences in this film, the intersections between the actors are "incomprehensibly orchestrated and unlikely". What qualifies you to say? In fact, I'd believe that, if we stepped back from our own lives and isolated certain parts of them, we'd find that these situations occur far more often than not. Just because it's not something we think about in as part of our macrocosm doesn't mean it's not a part of the microcosm. To me, the film is about how there is always more below the surface than we initially let on - not only in our daily interactions with others but in our own heads, the parts of us that no one else ever sees. Race is the catalyst for all of the dynamic situations in this story, but it's far from what the movie is about, and I feel sorry for anyone to whom this didn't compute. If you checked out at the racial slurs, like I said, you missed the point.
Mr. Winston by BadMrWonka	Jan 16th, 2007 12:00:22 AM
I read all your comments, and I do believe the movie is about racism, and I don't think I'm dumb or dense. but if you'd like to think of me as such, that's fine. it is a talkback, after all, and it is hard to disagree on here without insulting, it seems. I guess I am still stuck on your insistence that the movie is not about racism, and that it's about "how there's always more below the surface"...that, to me, sounds even more pretentious than Haggis thinking he has something truly legitimate to say about racism. now he's commenting on our collective subconscious? WALKER TEXAS RANGER... and I recognize that contrived coincidences and setups can be part of a decent film, and even used to good extent, but come on, they only exist in Crash as an excuse to tie these characters together loosely enough to be sure they're in the same filmic reality. I would have liked it a little better if it had just been 4 or 5 seperate vignettes, since there was no real reason to tie them all together. (as you imply, it's all about the deep over-arching points, right? we shouldn't worry about anything as useless as plot development or narrative) I didn't check out at the racist slurs (very weak little jab, by the way...come on, man), I checked out because I don't think pretentious, white Scientologists from Hollywood should make movies like this. because this is what you get. a movie that says little, and doesn't teach us to ask anything new of ourselves. it's a cinematic tic-tac, yet Hollywood congratulated itself on grilling up filet mignon. if Bobby gets nominated for an Oscar this year, maybe we'll see a repeat this year of the travesty that was Crash's Oscar win. lots of actors + no point = Oscar gold. and for the record, Mr. Winston, you are acting like anyone that doesn't like Crash doesn't get it (certainly that's how you seem to address me). and I had to laugh, because I remember when it was announced that Crash was nominated for Best Picture. if you missed the talkback, you really should look through it, at least scroll through and read the comments about Crash. pretty funny stuff. and it turns out that most people (not just my dense, dumb ass) saw through Crash's mysticism. as one TB'er put it, it was the latest case of "the emporer's new clothes"... Mori, if you're still reading this, can you weigh in? I read your Casino Royale review, but I never heard too much about Crash. as a fellow Haggis disliker, I need someone to help me convince Mr. Winston that there are others out there besides me (since I'm dumb and dense) that see through Haggis veil. Xenu, help us!
oops, forgot the link by BadMrWonka	Jan 16th, 2007 12:11:47 AM
http://www.aintitcool.com/node /22347?semperex-search
"... Gondry is a filmmaker who cannot be underestimated by VoxMillennium	Jan 16th, 2007 01:21:55 AM
I think you mean "overestimated" unless you mean to say his work is no good? As for bashing the Hannibal prequel, in this case it follows the book so it's different from those other remakes in that respect. You may not like the fact that Harris painted a background for Lecter, but personally I thought it was fascinating and didn't make the character any less scary or demystified, but I guess it's a question of taste.
Vox by BadMrWonka	Jan 16th, 2007 01:42:17 AM
I think he means "cannot" as in "should not"...as in no one should underestimate Gondry... you know, like when someone says, "the Saints cannot be left out of discussions about the playoffs"...they mean to say that they should not be left out, not that it it's impossible for them to be left out.
Vox... by TheRealMoriarty	Jan 16th, 2007 01:52:08 AM
... I amended it to "should not be underestimated," which is what I meant in the first place. And regarding the Hannibal prequel, I have read it, and I think Harris has finally lost me as a reader. I hate the demystification and overexplanation of these characters, and I think it's a huge mistake. I think it's a rotten trend, and I see it getting worse before it gets better.
That roof scene in The Departed is so... by DanielKurland	Jan 16th, 2007 02:26:12 AM
goddamned good. And the aftermath, with the whole, "Just kill me now." "What do you think I'm doing." Just wonderful. Also, the date scene with Damon, Farminga, and that chocolate dessert is also wonderful.
That is a really solid list right there. by brokentusk	Jan 16th, 2007 04:12:38 AM
Well written, Mori. I agree with every choice you made for the list (although I haven't seen STREET FIGHT yet and I was slightly disappointed with TALLADEGA NIGHTS). Looking forward to the main list.
children of men by Seven Seas	Jan 16th, 2007 04:17:42 AM
phantom edit of the two 1-shot action scenes...you know thats it...like the start of private ryan.
Mor... by VoxMillennium	Jan 16th, 2007 05:27:29 AM
Fair enough; I do wholeheartedly agree in a case like Zombie's Halloween remake which I believe to be completely insane and disrespectful of the original. On a different issue, I'm very ambivalent about Yang Zimous recent turn to the martial arts genre and away fom socially relevant movies. Sure, his latest pictures have great stories and look amazing, but I do miss his early more cutting edge stuff like already mentioned "red sorghum", "raise the red lantern" and "ju dou". Still, looking forward to his latest.
Vox... by TheRealMoriarty	Jan 16th, 2007 05:47:53 AM
My feelings on the subject of demystification may be exasperated since I actually read the Zombie script this week. I'm trying to remain open-minded about the film itself... but it's not easy... it's really... really not easy... And in the case of Zhang Yimou, I think he's a different guy than he was when he made RED SORGHUM or RAISE THE RED LANTERN. I think his attitudes about China are different. HERO exists almost as a refutation to some of his earlier films. I think he's one of the most visually acute filmmakers working, and I think he's still talking about the China he lives in, just using the remove of history or the distraction of martial arts to do so.
Moriarty’s COOKIN THE BOOKS! by DOGSOUP	Jan 16th, 2007 07:47:19 AM
Sorry, I wanted to do that just one last time before your damn catchphrase aruguement completely makes sense to me and I stop doing that from now on.
BadMrWonka by Mr. Winston	Jan 16th, 2007 07:56:29 AM
You said: "I checked out because I don't think pretentious, white Scientologists from Hollywood should make movies like this." And that's why this argument is going nowhere - an absurd bias like this. I'm the absolute last person on the planet to be a Scientologist apologizer - I live about five miles from their HQ and I feel like I need to be a lot further - but if I were ignorant enough to pretend that because someone was a Scientologist and white that they can't be affected by or have anything intelligent to say about people of different ethnic backgrounds I'd be in trouble. Again, if you don't think there's depth in the story past racism, that's you're opinion and that's not why I'm calling you dumb; ditto for your feelings on the dialogue, the coincidences, and the way the story played out. But yes, I'm calling you dumb if you think the film is about racism. I'd go so far as to say that racism is akin to a McGuffin in this film. Not everyone who dislikes the film didn't understand it - not even close, in fact, and I never once said that. I was, actually, addressing you specifically. No, I don't think you get it, but it's not due (it seems) to a lack of intelligence - it's due to a sort of unwarranted bigotry, and THAT is dense.
Rock of Portland radio station? by DOGSOUP	Jan 16th, 2007 08:57:32 AM
KNRK? or KUFO? Portland Oregon or Portland Maine? I'm so confused...
KUFO! by ye olde shiza	Jan 16th, 2007 09:36:12 AM
Sorry about leaving out that Portland, Oregon part. I'm retarded to think that there's no Portlands beside this one.
As a fellow Portlandian I can see the trouble by DOGSOUP	Jan 16th, 2007 09:42:54 AM
There's a Portland Maine?!?!
Snow Day by ye olde shiza	Jan 16th, 2007 10:13:37 AM
In honor of today in Portland, I will put in this classic Cuba Gooding Jr. movie. Yay. And unlike school, I know Blockbuster won't be closing for the snow. Fuck me.
Snow Day Movie: Cannibal! The Musical by DOGSOUP	Jan 16th, 2007 10:16:31 AM
"Fudge? Packer?" Good thing I don't work today. For those who wouldn't know Portland snow is similar to Tim Burtonesque snow with HUGE flakes falling slowly yet driving people insane. In conclusion, "Let's Build a Snowman!"
the best part of DEPARTED was... by white owl	Jan 16th, 2007 10:22:46 AM
the upspray of blood onto Leo from MartySheen after he fell from the roof. That wicked shit totally caught me by surprise. Don't you guys agree that was the coolest death in the movie?
wait... cuba gooding was in snow day? by white owl	Jan 16th, 2007 11:59:50 AM
I didn't know this.. and I've seen the movie. A Cuban Snow Day must be infinitely worse. Or did you mean.. the movie where he plays with dogs?
SevenSeas... by DanielKurland	Jan 16th, 2007 12:17:58 PM
please don't ruin that fantastic one-shot car scene in Children of Men for me. It was partly why I liked the movie so much.
Prestige, Illusionist, Departed... by chromedome	Jan 16th, 2007 01:06:48 PM
...were all great. I guess it is natural to compare Illusionist and Prestige in one "category" but I think that is a mistake. One had a touch of scifi in it, one did not. I think the Prestige haters probably did not like the scifi element, primarily. I felt that Illusionist was much more predictable, and the big 'reveal' was more of a 'confirm'. Departed was such a welcome change from all the other films of this year, and I agree with the poster above about the date scene: "I'll arrest You right now" was such a great line, and perfectly delivered, very natural. I would include The Fountain in a top ten list, not so much because it was great, and certainly not because it was accessible, but I enjoyed the ambitious willingness to be different and unapologetic. It dances right on the line between Serious/Deliberate and Laughable/Absurd, keeps its balance, and lets the viewer choose. They did not shy away from scenes that could alienate or disengage viewers. Prestige took a similar chance with the mechanism, and probably both films lost half the folks because of it.
Casino Royale should be in the top 10) by performingmonkey	Jan 16th, 2007 02:02:47 PM
Considering the FACT that The Prestige and Bond are way better than Rocky Balboa, I pray to Christ in hell that it doesn't make it into Mori's top 10.
Slightly shocked by Mori's list by Gwai Lo	Jan 16th, 2007 04:43:21 PM
For several reasons. The first one was opening up the page and seeing Talladega Nights right off the bat. I got maybe a chuckle or two out of the whole film, but I think that as a movie it borders somewhere between mediocre and outright bad. Will Ferrel's schtick is just completely tired at this point, the writing was sloppy and formulaic, and while I can dig what you're saying about the Americana elements to it I don't think they place this film above all the others that came out this year, save 19. My next big surprise was that three of my favorite films of the year (placing second, third, and about seventh respectively) failed to make it into your top ten. The Departed, The Prestige, and Casino Royale were all excellent. I can currently only think of one title that I enjoyed more than The Departed and The Prestige, and that is Children of Men. (I still have yet to see Apocalypto and Pan's Labyrinth, but I'm almost caught up besides those two as far as possible contenders go) I imagine that you're going to put The Fountain (my number five) and Pan's on your list, maybe Letters from Iwo Jima, hopefully not The Queen. I was also absolutely shocked to see Happy Feet place higher than The Departed. Subtext or no, Happy Feet looks utterly unwatchable to me, along with the 30 other animated films about talking animals/inanimate objects that came out this year. I'm just sick of these movies, and nothing can be said to sway me towards this glut in the market. I have only enjoyed one animated film of this ilk to date, and that is The Incredibles. Anyway, I'm a little bit taken aback by this list as I usually agree with you on most of your reviews. I respect your opinion but I feel this has been a very strong year for cinema and including films like Talladega Nights and Happy Feet verges on blasphemy.
Gwai Lo... by TheRealMoriarty	Jan 16th, 2007 06:14:37 PM
Regarding HAPPY FEET, I'll just say this: I judge films based on how well they do what they set out to do. I think HAPPY FEET was entirely successful at what it tried to do, and I think George Miller's track record demands at least some consideration. Yes, there have been a number of awful talking animal movies lately. I agree completely. But this is the director of the deeply underrated BABE PIG IN THE CITY, and I think his work on HAPPY FEET is equally subversive and clever. And regarding TALLADEGA NIGHTS, it's a comedy. You can't argue comedy with someone. Either it makes you laugh or it doesn't. All I can do is explain why I reacted the way I did. And remember, this is not a list of the "best" of anything. I think you have to be an arrogant fuckstick to say that you can rank the "best" films of any year. These are simply my favorite films of the year, and as such, I don't expect this list to mirror yours. If nothing else, maybe I can persuade you to at least check out HAPPY FEET on DVD and be open-minded. You may still decide you hate it, but I always try to wait until I've seen something before I decide if it has any merit or not.
I hope I don't come off as an arrogant fuckstick by Gwai Lo	Jan 16th, 2007 06:45:35 PM
Well atleast not in an intelligent discussion about cinema, but I agree with you that there isn't a best, just individual taste that sometimes accumulates into some sort of undeniable status. I also agree that comedy is a mysterious fish. The funniest movie I saw this year was Blackballed, but it's a few years old anyway. I also didn't see some the comedies that looked the most appealing to me this year, like Idiocracy or Borat. I did see Talladega Nights and Nacho Libre however, and I found them both kind of vaguely amusing when I wanted something hysterical like last year's 40 Year Old Virgin. Talladega Nights was just continuing the long string of bland "frat pack" comedies (Wedding Crashers, Anchorman, You Me and Dupree.. etc etc) that still seem to satisfy people somehow. Anyway, it's cool if you liked it and I've been known to love plotless race movies myself (Vanishing Point anyone?) but Talladega Nights was basically anchorman with a change in occupation. As for Happy Feet, I can see what you're saying. It's a kids movie with a brain. OK. So was Babe. I'm just not into that stuff anyway. I know George Miller as the Road Warrior guy, and for that he is cool in my books. Maybe it's because I am a 23 year old male with no desire for children until I'm 30 or rich, and you're already a family man. I have never really dug children's movies, even when I was a child. I was watching The Thing when I was 8, not the Little Mermaid. My dad just raised me that way. I watched lots of stuff that kids enjoy, like Star Wars or the Goonies, but I skipped the whole family movie phase altogether. Subversive is nice, but the movie has to grab me in other ways. And that's just it, I like it when a movie grabs me by the nuts and twists. I see what you're saying about a movie achieving what it set out to do, and if I reviewed films professionally I would make more of an effort to embrace the few genres I don't like and rate them based on their individual criteria. As of now I just knows what I likes. I also think the potential for artistry in children's films is much higher than these digital animators have been able to provide so far. We are still getting the same plasticy, generic character designs and the same animals with their cutesy cartoon faces. No one has thought outside of the box yet. Consider Miyazaki and what he does with animation, or even Walt Disney. These new animated films lack soul, they may achieve photorealism in their background matte shots or maybe the characters move with a convincing fluidity, but there is no imagination in the conceptualization of the characters. Even in the Incredibles, a movie that I liked, the character designs are all very bland and simple. I might eventually check Happy Feet out just based on your recommendation. I really respect your opinion, out of all the reviewers on this site I find that I agree with you the most and when we differ you usually explain yourself quite well. I also like the work you've done on Masters of Horror. I'm surprised by your list this year though, all I'm saying. You saw way more movies than I did, so it's not a surprise our lists are different. I remember them being quite similar last year. Cheers Drew, looking forward to your top 10.
Prankster: by Sith Witch	Jan 16th, 2007 07:06:36 PM
Neil Burger did NOT use cgi for the magic tricks in The Illusionist. He claims that 90% of the tricks were not cgi-enhanced. He wanted them to feel real, so he brought in Ricky Jay, the famous magician/actor, to assist the tricks as they would be exhibited in that time period.
Gwai Lo... by TheRealMoriarty	Jan 16th, 2007 07:28:13 PM
... not at all. I'm saying that's why I don't call my look at a year the "best of," since I wouldn't presume to say that you can quantify what is or isn't "best." I got no beef with you, my brutha. We're just talking movies is all.
Sith Witch... by TheRealMoriarty	Jan 16th, 2007 07:35:13 PM
... I think you may have that backwards. I know Ricky Jay was a consultant on THE PRESTIGE, and even appears onscreen in the film. But whether he worked on THE ILLUSIONIST or not, there is definitely a fair amount of low-budget CG in that film that stood out stylistically.
My predictions for your top 10 by Gwai Lo	Jan 16th, 2007 07:46:30 PM
No order: Babel, Children of Men, The Fountain, United 93, Pan's Labyrinth, The Proposition, The Queen, that little indie flick that suprised you from the other day can't remember title, Dreamgirls, and....... ?
Casino Royale will not age well by Spandau Belly	Jan 16th, 2007 07:48:56 PM
Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it, but this was Bond movie that got influenced by everything around it instead of making its own mark. I recently got those box sets of all the Bond flicks and was reminded how 'License to Kill' was in no way a Bond film and really just an extended 'Miami Vice' episode that sampled from 'Lethal Weapon', 'Scarface' and every other American narc fiction of the day. I think Casino Royale was so successful for this reason. Its exactly like everything else right now and therefore totally accessable to a huge audience. This movie riffs on Bourne, Ronin, and ends up doing very little distinct and very little in the Bond tradition but making a good American-style espionage flick. I thought Craig played the role exactly like Timothy Dalton, who I also never accepted as James Bond. Again, I was entertained by this film. But didn't leave feeling I'd seen a James Bond film, I just felt like I saw a fun espionage flick. I'm sure that by the time the next generation of Bond films start with the next actor in the lead role people will want the cheese of this franchise back and in full form.
lol, Winston by BadMrWonka	Jan 16th, 2007 08:52:35 PM
"unwarranted bigotry"...that one made me chuckle... http://www.x enu.net/
lol, Winston by BadMrWonka	Jan 16th, 2007 08:52:36 PM
"unwarranted bigotry"...that one made me chuckle... http://www.x enu.net/
Best vs Favourite by Latauro	Jan 16th, 2007 09:02:11 PM
The talk of the difference between best film and favourite film is an interesting one. Personally, I say "Best" even though I mean it's my "Favourite". Perhaps next year I should be more accurate. But this is a good time to pimp my show The Bazura Project, because we begun our Wrap Up of 2006 with a discussion on the difference between best and favourite: http://www.bazuraproject.com/v ideos/2007/01/104_review_outro .php
The suspense is killing me! by BannedOnTheRun	Jan 17th, 2007 02:07:08 AM
We don't deserve to know Mori's top 10.
BadMrWonka!!! by BannedOnTheRun	Jan 17th, 2007 05:55:44 AM
There you are! Where the &#@# can I find "Henri?" If you don't want to spam, at least give me an encoded clue where to find it. Best film of 2006!
I'm Close Now... by TheRealMoriarty	Jan 17th, 2007 06:29:38 AM
... I have three more entries to write. Sorry, but I really wrestled with the order of the top ten. It'll be up by Thursday morning at the absolute latest, but hopefully before then.
Spandau - I have to disagree by just pillow talk	Jan 17th, 2007 06:56:36 AM
I think it will hold up over time. I liked what they tried to do with Timmy Dalton and just dislike Roger Moore's Bond. As a little kid, sure ate that shit up, but it's crap. Just like Brosnan's turn got progressively worse and became more and more silly. I don't want all that nonsense back in my Bond movies. The world has changed and has gotten more deadly and I want my Bond to reflect that. If I want my Bond to be over the top I'll throw in Austin Powers.
Here's Hoping.... by www.valiens.com	Jan 17th, 2007 09:50:03 AM
Here's hoping "Rocky Balboa" is nowhere near your top ten.
I'm bored thus I have my own top films by white owl	Jan 17th, 2007 10:45:25 AM
Yet seeing as how I'm in rural PA, I can legitimately only have a Top 5 without delving into date movies like Grudge 2(shudder) and Saw 3(again, I shudder). ============= 5. The Fountain 4. The Departed 3. Casino Royale 2. United 93 1. Children of Men *** I envy those who got to see Pan's Labyrinth. I'm actually considering driving to Cleveland (closest big city) to see it.
Crash by elsachmo	Jan 17th, 2007 05:31:11 PM
Crash is a great film, and Crash is about racism. The end. I mean, everything that the movie is about, every action that happens, and every thing it is trying to show the viewer is about the complexities of racism.
bannedontherun by BadMrWonka	Jan 17th, 2007 07:51:46 PM
wow! since you asked, you can find "Henri" here: http://tinyurl.com/y9t7wa I've got some other new short films up there too, check them out. Henri just got accepted into 2 short film festivals, and it's playing right now in the preshow program at all the Warren Theaters in Wichita. fun stuff. thanks for the support!
DAM YOU ROB ZOMBIE by Turd Furgeson	Jan 17th, 2007 09:28:10 PM
DAM YOU ROB ZOMBIE
how much closer . . . by CockyPop	Jan 17th, 2007 09:48:25 PM
any chance of seeing the list tonight, or should i just go to sleep ..
Gwai & Mori about subjectivity of taste... by chaplinatemyshoe	Jan 17th, 2007 11:58:13 PM
given that the success of film is generally subjective, don't you think if a film aims higher and accomplishes its aim, or partially accomplishes its aim, it takes on greater significance than your run of the mill, well executed, paint by the numbers genre piece. Otherwise, Dickens would be on the same literary level as Joyce, Blake Edwards on the same level as Kubrick. Not to say that taste doesn't come into play, but there are times when you see a movie so great that its greatness is hard to deny. And in the cases of films called great that I haven't gotten, I go back for repeated viewings to see what others saw. I guess, what I'm saying is this: I believe there is a place where personal taste and objective greatness meet. That is to say, if you made a list of the best movies, I think you might have to back it up as in an academic paper, but I wouldn't call you an arrogant fuckstick. I'd call you a film scholar.
grappling with whether pan's labyrinth is #1?? by reckni	Jan 18th, 2007 12:17:47 AM
Wouldn't be surprised if it is. I haven't witnessed Street Fight or The Host (I really wanna see that), but otherwise your upper list is respectable. Casino Royale is higher on mine.
Getting But Not Getting THE PRESTIGE by emvan	Jan 18th, 2007 04:21:10 AM
SPOILERS, obviously. The key to this movie is doing the work of figuring out in each and every scene which twin is which. And to do that, you really have to see it a second time, even if you got the twist midway. I think a lot of folks are saying, OK, I get it, but are still viewing the twins as one unit rather than two different people. Because if you do separate the twins, the film no longer lacks a likeable character and is no longer emotionally cold. The level-headed twin, the one who never cheats on his wife and wanted the feud to end, becomes a completely sympathetic character, and his reunion with his daughter moved me to tears the third time I saw it. And have you noticed that the only morally questionable thing he does is kill Angier, while the only morally admirable thing his rash twin does is try to save Angier (well, his copy) when he drowns? The movie is full of brilliant strokes like that. No film I've ever seen has rewarded repeated viewings more, which is why it's the best film of the past five years.

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