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Moriarty’s Holiday Marathon Catch-Up Continues! LETTERS And SCANDAL And CHILDREN and MUSEUM And HALF NELSON, Oh My!

Children of Men by arrangedletters	Jan 7th, 2007 11:47:27 PM
Beats the hell out of Pan's Labyrinth any day.
Oh by arrangedletters	Jan 7th, 2007 11:47:47 PM
and first
VIN DIESEL AND A DUCK GOTTA EAT by Pound Sand	Jan 7th, 2007 11:54:27 PM
Now that'd be a book that would hit the AICN best seller list. And McWeeny: you stick your guns on the whole rating system kerfuffle. Star system, thumbs up, 7.5, yadda yadda yadda. If you must change it to please the masses, go with 'Small', 'Medium,' Large, 'Big Gulp', 'Super Big Gulp', and 'Harry Knowles.'
Seriously by arrangedletters	Jan 8th, 2007 12:00:48 AM
I did like Pan's but it is very seriously overrated. These are a few of the many issues I have with the film. Careful of Spoilers!! 1. The ending is telegraphed from the first seconds of the movie leaving the climactic scene less powerful and long awaited. What purpose did this scene really have and tell me why it was needed? 2.The graphic violence, (really don't take kids) while showing us know the bad man is a BAD man, is unneeded. You can create a villian without showing someone getting there teeth smashed in with a bottle. 3. The sound design is so overblown as to be laughable. Listen to the amount of noise a sutuer makes in this film. It makes what is supposed to be real seem cartoony. 4. Why didn't Mercedes kill him? After the suffering she and everyone she has known all her life are put through she only left him alive because the plot demanded it. 5. The end is also a plot device that Del Toro used in Hellboy so I knew it was coming from the first trek to the Labyrinth. 6. The parallels between the key and the knife are never really used to any great effect. 7. Why did Orelia eat the grape? It's not like she was starving. Once more plot device. 8. Why did she draw the door on the ceiling instead of on the wall again or the floor? You guessed it, plot device so we can have cool creepy chase scene. The list goes on. Once again...I'm not saying it's bad, and to those that have seen it really think about the things I wrote and you'll be hard pressed to disagree. My job is to lower people's expectations so they can enjoy it more than I did.
Your Job? by TheRealMoriarty	Jan 8th, 2007 12:07:09 AM
Really? Someone hired you to do that?
Gosling by Frojitsu	Jan 8th, 2007 12:08:08 AM
You were right on about Gosling in Half Nelson, Mori. His performance was the main thing I took away from the movie when I saw it in New York way back in the fall in the noisy-ass Angelika. But kudos too to the writing, giving us a character who doesn't easily overcome his flaws over the course of the film. The schoolteacher/drug addict genre mix could have been formulaic and wrapped up in tidy Hollywood fashion, but the filmmakers ducked under that obstacle and gave us something more... ambiguous at times, but true-feeling. Not a great film, but for its successes, I feel it is a very, very good one.
just trying to help by arrangedletters	Jan 8th, 2007 12:20:26 AM
I just want to help people enjoy the film more but not promising them the sky. And if they can only see one go see Children of Men. You really nailed the reason the long shots are so incredible. It makes you wonder how long you can really hold your breath because after they finish you remember you need to do that.
the long shots were digitally altered by occula	Jan 8th, 2007 12:24:28 AM
sorry to burst your bubble, but this information was discussed on this site months ago. cuaron is cagey about how exactly he did it, but there was manipulation of the shots. and also sorry but SPOILER!! mercedes does kill the captain at the end of 'labyrinth.' this film is an adult fantasy, rated r. why would you think it would be OK to take children to see it?
Drew, you nailed "Children of Men" by Mattapooh	Jan 8th, 2007 12:38:20 AM
Digitally "cheated" or not, the long takes in Children gave the impression of being stuck in those situations. Beautiful, thought-provoking and very entertaining flick. I wish we had more flicks of this calibre hitting on a regular basis. Speaking of "cheated" long takes, wasn't that crazy long one in Woo's "Hard Boiled" fixed up in some way?
Occula... by TheRealMoriarty	Jan 8th, 2007 12:44:05 AM
... as I said, I don't really care about the one-shot as a technical trick... for me, it's about the impact of those shots. Digitally manipulated? Duh. Even within the long tracking shots that haven't been seamlessly blended together, there are digital tricks going on. They are, for the most part, invisible and that's what is impressive to me.
arrangedletters by Mr. Winston	Jan 8th, 2007 01:26:37 AM
I have to agree with you 100% on PAN'S, and I've been trying to tell people who are seeing it what they're getting into so they're not pissed off - though not for the plot points you mentioned, as those can be debated. What can't be debated is that it's NOT a fantasy film - it's a war drama with a fantasy subplot that only encompasses about 15 minutes out of the entire two-hour film...and never once, at least in my opinion, made any significant parallel to the real-world story. I thought the war drama stuff would have been incredible on its own and I think the fantasy would have been amazing if del Toro had had a story in his head rather than a series of images and random situations. But he didn't know how to make the fantasy world into a polished narrative and it never fit together into a single tale with the war drama. I realize no one at AICN is going to admit to a fault in the film because they're del Toro's friends, and I get that, but talking to people who've gone to see it...I'm finding they're disappointed for the same reasons I was - they were marketed something far different from what they got.
On the Other Hand by Mr. Winston	Jan 8th, 2007 01:27:56 AM
I saw CHILDREN OF MEN this weekend and it totally floored me. If they make many movies this year as good or better than that, I'm pretty fucking excited.
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, by kikuchiyoboy	Jan 8th, 2007 01:38:48 AM
but not one bit simpler." Einstein That's how I felt about "Children Of Men". A wonderful little fable about a man thrown into a blind journey. A journey about faith and chance. Finding reason in a world without reason. This film really reminded me how good Cuaron is at conveying a big world while still keeping it low key and character driven. This actually reminded me alot of "Y Tu Mama Tambien". The way the camera drifts a little to the left or right revealing a little history of the characters environment. If only Theo had a stronger arc. The movie seemed more about him coming to terms with the surroundings and yet I didn't feel that his mental journey was fully realized. I don't know. Enjoyable movie either way. Especially with the little nod to "The Animal" album. My cousin caught it seconds before I saw it. That was pretty funny. This seems to be one of those films that you either really dig it, or not at all. I mistakingly read the Pan's spoiler even after the spoiler warning noted above. I thought it was a "Children Of Men" spoiler. Oh well.
Hey Mori by odysseus	Jan 8th, 2007 01:42:09 AM
I think Children of Men was the best film of the year -- but don't you think it had some pretty clunky exposition in the beginning, i.e. Michael Caine's 'fugee speech in the car to name one bit? I actually found the beginning of the film to be the weakest part, and the ending quite profound.
Right on the nose about Shawn Levy by NoPIX	Jan 8th, 2007 01:49:55 AM
My angry sentiments exactly.
Levy-meister by ye olde shiza	Jan 8th, 2007 03:32:01 AM
When I first watched "The Pink Panther" and saw that Shawn Levy directed it, I thought that he was the movie critic for "The Oregonian." But no, it's not him. Different Shawns. Dammit. The directorial Shawn is certainly not the most inspired of directors, but all that hate directed his way for making mediocre movies seems a little hoity-toity to me. I mean, he could be Uwe Boll. He could be McG. Shit, he could even be the dumb shit that directed "Date Movie," the worst fucking movie I've seen since "Moron Movies" back in the day. Anywho ... goodnight. Don't know why I'm trying to protect Shawn Levy ... he's a hack, sure, but he's not fucking Adolf Hitler. Moriarty, if you need someone to anally rape in your reviews, pick a target that's more deserving.
DATE MOVIE? MY EYES! by Mace Tofu	Jan 8th, 2007 04:44:14 AM
Why did you have to bring up DATE MOVIE. That was a tough one to finish. Who knew suck could go so low.
"things I wrote and you'll be hard pressed to disagree" by Talkbacker with no name	Jan 8th, 2007 05:10:14 AM
arrangedletters, for a start... "Why did Orelia eat the grape? It's not like she was starving." er well she was staving as she had been punished by not being allowed to eat that night if you remember (or paid attention to the film). "The sound design is so overblown as to be laughable. Listen to the amount of noise a sutuer makes in this film. It makes what is supposed to be real seem cartoony." Didn't feel that at all. In fact the sound was perfect for the 'fantasy' film it was...want me to go on? If your job "is to lower people's expectations so they can enjoy it more than I did." they are over paying you! I suggest you watch the film again and this time concentrate!
Talkbacker with no name by Mr. Winston	Jan 8th, 2007 05:30:28 AM
Pertaining to the grape eating, I'll be kind enough to announce **********SPOILER******* * for everyone. As far as that scene goes, I would point it out specifically as a beat in the film where del Toro shows his incredible weakness as a storyteller (just so you know where I'm coming from...I find GDT to be an astonishingly good visual director/artist, but as a writer I think he's strictly Junior College). The fact that Ofelia was sent to bed without dinner didn't resonate with me at all because, compared to the atrocities going on around her, it seemed a minor act and I immediately forgot it. So then she goes to do this job for Pan, who's she's alternately in awe of and scared shitless of, which takes her to a totally creepy, fucked up place with the most grotesque creature any of us have ever seen. Pan's told her SPECIFICALLY not to eat anything, and what does she do? Having missed just one fucking meal and being in a place that would make most rational people collapse simply upon viewing, she eats a fucking grape so there can be an ridiculous "chase" sequence that's neither harrowing nor nail-biting. If you want to do this right, you make it so the Captain is starving the fucking kid. THEN she has a reason to do what she's doing. But taking a bite of food in the ultimate fright house after she's been specifically warned by a terrifying monster not to touch anything? That's lazy, and it's a small part of the bigger reason as to why this movie failed for me. I understand why people like this movie - heck, I understand why people LOVE this movie - but for me the writing was so hit-and-miss that it can't be reconciled. And, frankly, it's not even an average script as far as overall story goes.
Mr. Winston, del toro explains... by Talkbacker with no name	Jan 8th, 2007 06:47:20 AM
all about it in an interview a few weeks ago. If i remember right has a lot of answers to your questions there. I'll agree with you on one thing though - Children of men is fucking awesome!
Chidren of Men a response by emeraldboy	Jan 8th, 2007 06:49:00 AM
Its hard to know where to begin with this film. I saw this in the cinema. In the UK/Ireland this film came out before its US release. On a technical level and a production level the standard of the movie is very high indeed and that long tracking involving shot Clive Owen and the newly born child is the highlight of the movie. This film suffers from a very weak screen play. I would say a ramshackle plot. They took PD james Book went through, discovered they hadnt enough material, took some topical issues and threw them into the mix. The plot threw up questions that were not answered. It was never explained, why women stopped having children. It just happened. move on. Becuase your child dies of the bird flu, would that turn you into a paramilitary intent on brining down the govt. that was the rationale as to why Clive owen's ex wife turned into what she did. There had to be more reasons than that but they were never explained, so the audience was left the explaination given by caine, that their kid died in 2008 from the avian pandemic. that is it. This movie was all buildup and and no pay off at the end. the end was abrupt, they had signposted the end of the movie from the very beginning and when the film ended the way it did i was disappointed.
emeraldboy i'm sorry... by Talkbacker with no name	Jan 8th, 2007 06:53:29 AM
you didn't get out of it what a lot of others did. shame that. It blew me away on every level.
about pan's by ziondragon	Jan 8th, 2007 07:06:22 AM
nothing special to say, just that I sent a review of it to both harry and mori more than 2 months ago. it didn't bash the movie but I pointed out the obvious flaws in it, mentioned also in this talkback. needles to say, the review was not run. I understand that they are friends with GDT and everything, but a little objectivity wouldn't harm this site from time to time. it is one thing promoting a movie but a completely different thing shutting the truth up. Pan's is a good movie but it isn't a miracle or a masterpiece or even close and selling it as such to john q. moviegoer could (and will) do more harm than good. as I see it the only movie this site really hype-helped in the last few years is rocky balboa (not that it needed any help, cause it is really good. thus, I fear for 300 and black snake moan. TOO HYPED! (sorry, I couldn't help it :o)
i have to agree with talkbacker... by just pillow talk	Jan 8th, 2007 07:08:02 AM
on Children of Men. I thought it was a very tense, gritty movie. And I think Theo's ex-wife's motives were more than just their child dying from bird flu (though having a child of my own, I can think of nothing else that would get me 'inspired', for lack of a better word, into doing something). I think that was the catalyst that led her down the path of resistence. I thought overall it was a pretty powerful film.
Talkbacker with no name, Redux by Mr. Winston	Jan 8th, 2007 07:21:08 AM
I think there's going to be a lot of people agreeing with you and I on CHILDREN OF MEN. However, on PAN'S...I read the interview with GDT. I was frustrated me even more because I thought his "explanations" were hollow, save for the parallels he drew between Pan, the Toad, the Pale Man and the Captain. I don't think he knew how to capture, on the page, the story that was in his mind. His associations came off as fuzzy and false, and I just don't think he'll ever be able to do much to become a worthy storyteller. Visually he's killing it all over the place, but narratively he's always been - PAN'S included - very weak. What's perhaps most frustrating is that SECTIONS of his films are written to the point where they're captivating...but there's too much crap holding it together to make it all stick. But look, that's just my opinion. People love this film all over the place so maybe it's just not for me. That said, I'm still disgusted that they're marketing this as a fantasy film when it's almost completely not.
Children of Men is the closest thing to a HL2 movie by white owl	Jan 8th, 2007 07:40:30 AM
that we'll ever get. But it sure doesn't disappoint. If you haven't seen the movie yet don't let these fools throw you aside by spoiling the ending. What I loved most about the film was its dark humor. It really came at the best places in the film and really balanced things out. "Baby Diego was a wanker", "Cough... what do you taste? Strawberries! I call it strawberry cough". "Pull my finger" "Tell Sid he's a fascist pig" I could go on. Yeah I guess its obvious my favorite character was Jasper. But what I really likes about the movie was that you have all these outside influences trying to have their way with the girl and her baby for whatever political means, and there's this London chub who blindly takes on a mission and protects the girl from these catalysts. I am in friggin love with Children of Men and I will surely see it many more times in theatres.
i saw Cheaper by the Dozen once by triplefive	Jan 8th, 2007 07:40:39 AM
i will never ever see anything made by Levy again. that simple. Just like I'll never see another p WS anderson movie, or sit through an entire uwe boll offering. unless he does a 3 hour epic telling of "Ecco the Dolphin." Then I'm there opening night.
triplefive.. didn't they already make that movie? by white owl	Jan 8th, 2007 07:44:44 AM
And call it Flipper?
"I don't think he knew how to capture, on the page..." by Talkbacker with no name	Jan 8th, 2007 07:49:23 AM
"...the story that was in his mind" Now i know you have no idea what you are talking about. Yeah it's really not for you, bud. Let's leave it at that.
The overall response to Children of Men by emeraldboy	Jan 8th, 2007 07:51:42 AM
WHere I am was mixed. Maybe the reason why it is getting a better reception in the US has to do with Hollywood doesnt make edgy political films anymore.
the story that was in his mind I wouldn't say that was by Talkbacker with no name	Jan 8th, 2007 07:58:01 AM
true. Look at V and Clooney's recent offerings agmonst others. They are making them, they are just not being seen by many people. And Children of men, while set in the UK is a 'universal' movie.
emeraldboy, it got a really sad reception at my theatre by white owl	Jan 8th, 2007 07:59:02 AM
what with kids only pointing at body parts and laughing at the weed parts and going "eww! yuck!" when the baby was born(don't mean to spoil), and then a collective "what the fuck? that sucked!!!" at the end. REasons why I believe I don't belong in this joe schmo-movie-lovin town. I saw CoM as it is, which is by today's standard of filmmaking pretty damn GREAT if I may use the word.
questions by arrangedletters	Jan 8th, 2007 08:10:30 AM
She didn't have dinner for one night and that made her starving? I did see that scene and that doesn't satisfy me. The film struggled so hard to be realistic in the war story that the cartoony sounds destroyed this feeling. I remeber another thing why wouldn't the men destroy the lock on the supply door in the raid so as not to point a giant flaming arrow at the only other person who had a key? Yes she killed him but why didn't she before?
CoM by arrangedletters	Jan 8th, 2007 08:12:47 AM
I will say that if you want a huge sprawling story of the fall of man this movie is not for you. The purpose of this film is to tell the very small story of one man's journey. It is not here to tell you anything else. At the very heart it is simply a road movie.
talkbacker by arrangedletters	Jan 8th, 2007 08:14:16 AM
If Del Toro has to post answers to questions about the film, the film obviously does not work since the film should tell you what you need to know.
arrangedletters by Talkbacker with no name	Jan 8th, 2007 08:17:46 AM
cartoony sounds? It's like the ramberlings of a mad man! I get the feeling people dislike the movie because lots of people love it. Trying to disguise that fact with a riddiculas argument is very sad.
what... so Pan's Labyrinth is good then? by white owl	Jan 8th, 2007 08:21:23 AM
I wouldn't know.. I only live in suburbia.
I disagree arrangedletters.. by just pillow talk	Jan 8th, 2007 08:23:17 AM
I think Children of Men centered on the intimate story, but still told the wide picture, with immigration issues, patriot act...propaganda. I love the "Britain soilders on". God damn camps...I percieved it as a sprawling story from the eyes of one man. Then again, it's Monday morning and I may still be asleep as I type this crap.
arrangedletters, no the film shouldn't tell you by Talkbacker with no name	Jan 8th, 2007 08:25:15 AM
what you need to know at all! Most of us here can work it out (or have an understanding or a meaning that speaks to us) without being told what to think or feel. It's about using your brain. It's the future of mankind I tells ya!
off the subject here, but i finally saw Casino Royale by just pillow talk	Jan 8th, 2007 08:27:53 AM
what a freak'n kickass Bond movie. Brutal, to the point, intense action scenes. And 'M' was good in this. It's too bad all of the Bond movies weren't like this.
Well Congrats, Twnn by Mr. Winston	Jan 8th, 2007 08:37:52 AM
See what happens when you try a bit of civility here and attempt to back up your opinions with a bit of data and an explanation? You get, "Now I know you have no idea what you're talking about." Twnn, at least I've attempted to point out WHY I thought what I thought - you've just babbled like an idiot and been a contrarian with no real views. So now people can't like the movie because it's popular? Jesus Christ. I wish you had something of substance to say, attempted to refute even one of my points, because then at least I could accept that the unwarranted condescension came from someone with balls. As it stands, you're just a troglodyte with the Internets.
Oh i have views on it Mr. Winston by Talkbacker with no name	Jan 8th, 2007 08:45:07 AM
I just feel sharing them with you would be a complete waste of time...as is this response. I'm done with you, mate.
exactly by arrangedletters	Jan 8th, 2007 08:46:24 AM
I bring up honest points and I get "Don't look behind the curtain!" The film shouldn't tell me the answers? OK then, how about give me enough information to answer my questions, which it still does not do. I really wanted to like this film and if you people read what I wrote I said I liked it and am trying to let folks know that they shouldn't expect the cinematic masterpiece so many here claim it is.
justpillowtalk was it just me by white owl	Jan 8th, 2007 08:47:23 AM
or did you want to get out of your seat mid-film, find a 12-foot ladder, set it up in front of the theatre and screen-fuck Vesper? was it just me?
um, no, it wasn't just you by just pillow talk	Jan 8th, 2007 08:59:05 AM
My wife kept telling me to sit the fuck down (all told, 7 times) during the tournament. Hey, Bond knows how to pick a dress, eh?
Aw Garsh, Twnn by Mr. Winston	Jan 8th, 2007 09:04:42 AM
If I were you I'd avoid me too - mentally, as you you've admitted by offering no compelling argument whatsoever, you can't compete. But I think that's beside the point, as I'll go as far as to say this: I don't think you've even seen the film. I think you're parading an empty float, "mate" (Christ, even in your faked chumminess you're pedantic), and therefore you couldn't add something even if you were forced.
that's exactly it! by white owl	Jan 8th, 2007 09:19:23 AM
we'd all be screen-fucking Bond girls if it weren't for a counteropinion from a significant other.
there's always a catch... by just pillow talk	Jan 8th, 2007 09:31:37 AM
god bless 'em though, god bless 'em! "i'm not your type because I'm smart?" "because you're not married" classic.
Regarding the reaction to Children of Men by emeraldboy	Jan 8th, 2007 09:33:34 AM
I referring to the critical reaction in the media.
ah media smedia... by just pillow talk	Jan 8th, 2007 09:41:31 AM
I know that I've been thinking about it since I saw it (and not in 'why did i fuck'n see that piece of shit way), which in my opinion, means it had a pretty good effect on me. Any movie that makes you think and compare to how the world is now (and how it could be if we are not careful) is pretty good in my book.
Shia LaBeouf is cool!!! by samuraiyao	Jan 8th, 2007 09:58:06 AM
Hi, I'm an asian american with an 8inch penises that can penetrate through a dart board. Maybe the reason that talkbackers are mad at shia is because he looks like every other average white boy i know. Loved children of men, illegal immigrants and juianne moore!!!!
mori...i wasn't talking to you... by occula	Jan 8th, 2007 10:04:15 AM
my bad: i forgot to start my post with my finger pointing more specifically at arranged letters. i realize fully you knew the shots were manipulated, i was directing my comments to his.
ZombieSolutions, never thought i'd say this... by Talkbacker with no name	Jan 8th, 2007 10:35:32 AM
But i agree! It was very kubrick in places but at the same time gave us something new on screen i've never seen before. Hell even Charlie Hunnam getting knocked into that hay bail in the bit where they escape amde up for his crap performance in 'Green Street'hehe that was a great stunt (maybe a stuntman with his cg face?). My friend was an extra on the movie and told me he was chatting to the guys under the floor in the baby scene. even they have no idea how it was done with the blending of puppet and cgi. The end shoot out took a day to shoot and was done around 4 times (with 4 hour set ups each take for all the squibs etc). He was one of the two guys looting the dead bodies just before Theo and the Kee go into the sewers. Can't wait for the dvd. There was a dvd extras camera guy on it throughout filming so they have to make a great making of!
Zombiesolutions, but not about... by Talkbacker with no name	Jan 8th, 2007 10:48:18 AM
King King. I love that fucking movie and The Fountain was great. But fair enough. I get the feeling you are not just bushing them to try and be all cult and hip (unlike Mr. Whineston).
MORIARTY by PwnedByStallone	Jan 8th, 2007 11:56:31 AM
You, sir, are the reason I come to this site. You are seriously talented man. Your fucking writing is captivating. As soon as I see your name on it I know it won't suck. The only thing is that your writing is so good that it depresses me that you are here alongside Massiveturd (Massawyrm) and his ilk. Do you have another site, your own site?
Triple Fuck Levy by Saluki	Jan 8th, 2007 12:19:43 PM
And GOD DAMN did Children of Men just rock the house down. I hope we see more features that aren't as interested in cut cut cut cut because of this flick.
laberinto de toro by welbrick	Jan 8th, 2007 12:24:30 PM
i'm so glad i'm not the only one who found the grape eating infuriatingly illogical as a dramatic beat. & so thrilled to hear all the positive vibes re: children of men. terry needham was the 1st AD on the movie; he did full metal jacket. it makes sense cuaron would hire him to help pull off the extended shots of choreographed anarchy.
very, very quiet today, what up with that? by just pillow talk	Jan 8th, 2007 01:22:53 PM
Letters I definitely will check out on DVD, it definitely looks better than Flags. And speaking of war, caught some of Band of Brothers marathon this weekend (History channel I think) in between watching my Jets get whooped. What a freak'n brilliant mini-series. Battle of Bulge was just brutal.
Add me to the list of tb'ers who loved CoM by Lando Griffin	Jan 8th, 2007 01:38:41 PM
saw it this weekend and was floored. A great film that I am recommending to everyone. Loved it! just pillow talk - Yes Band of Brothers is a kick ass miniseries. Back when it originally aired I really dug it and have been asking for it on dvd from my family for years and finally got it this past Christmas. Now just have to find time to watch it.
Lando, you lucky bastard by just pillow talk	Jan 8th, 2007 01:42:56 PM
I'll eventually pick that badboy up. At least history channel airs it every once in a while.
Children of Men was most definitely awesome. by iamnicksaicnsn	Jan 8th, 2007 02:20:21 PM
So beautiful, I can't wait to watch it again. The scene where Clive is walking down the stairs with the baby and as soon as people fighting see her and stop fighting almost brought me to shed a tear, and I wouldn't normally do that unless it was at some sort of sappy manipulative romantic comedy. And I, on the other hand Moriarty, thought the last few minutes were fine. As for King Kong, it was just a big wack off session for Peter Jackson. While not to say it wasn't pretty to look at, the editing, especially in the first act, was atrocious. It definitely needed to be cut down. And as for Pan's, it was good, but no where near great, especially when you have movies that stand head and shoulders above it from '06, like The Departed, V, Children of Men, even Apocalypto.
oh AND MORIARTY! ABOUT Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles!! by iamnicksaicnsn	Jan 8th, 2007 02:30:13 PM
If you could possibly ask him why he decided to go so cartoony and un-real -world-y with the movie. Because when I saw the teaser at Comic-Con, I was blown-away, finally, a new awesome TMNT movie that brought back the gritty realism of the first and second movie. But then when I saw the footage he brought, it had all these goofy cartoony monsters, that had neither the rough look of Toka and Razar from TMNT 2, nor the kick-ass-semi-serious look of the TV series - they just looked like some bs nickelodeon or disney weak-sauce crap. So Moriarty, try to see where Kevin Munroe, or whatever his last name is, is trying to go with it.
Children of Men by b-rock	Jan 8th, 2007 02:55:06 PM
I saw it this weekend, and I'll be going back to see it again. I've read complaints elsewhere that the film doesn't adequately explain the infertility problem and the group working to solve it. But that's the whole point. The characters in the movie don't know why it happened, and the group has become a sort of fairy tale. The only thing that could have made this movie better was seeing it without the gaggle of bitch-ass teenagers sitting behind me.
What's Eating Pan's Grape by SeanMiller	Jan 8th, 2007 02:57:29 PM
I agree with most TBs, Pan's was overhyped to the point where I was dissappointed. I do think the movie was very good, but not a masterpiece and definitely not something I ever need to see again. However, the grape eating scene I actually did enjoy. She did exactly what most kids do. Kids are always pushing boundaries and seeing what they can get away with. I call it the "Red Button" effect. In most children fairy tales, the adult figure always tells the child that whatever you do, do not push the red button. Well, by saying that, that is exactly what the kid is going to do. Point being, I bought it. I actually bought most things about the movie, something was just missing. On a side note, I thought Blood Diamond was awesome. I can't wait for CoM, Alpha Dogs, and Smokin' Aces.
Cuaron by ye olde shiza	Jan 8th, 2007 03:14:08 PM
I fully expect Children of Men to be awesome, and even though I haven't seen the film, I am going to agree with the talkbacker that put the personal issues forefront in the movie, and backdropped it all with ideas about homeland security, immigration, etc. Anyone who watched "Y Tu Mama Tambien" with their eyes reasonably open would have seen that the movie was fucking off the hook ... effortlessly multi-layered, effortlessly designed so that while the main plot about Tenoch and Julio's roadtrip with Luisa, you couldn't help but see all the poverty, hear the talk of classicism, discrimination, political upheavel, etc. It was, without another word to use, a beautifully executed movie that I could go on and on and on about - funny, sad, a picture-perfect take on life vs. death ... all told with an incredibly small idea. It's proof to Hollywood that you don't need some grand epic to be affecting. If "Children of Men" is executed with the same heart and soul as that film, then I'm going to be fuckin' blown away ... might even build a starburst statue out of Cuaron's face and mail it to him. The man gets me moved about cinema. I'm psyched.
Iamnicksaicnsn: I Love Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. by Dick Nicely	Jan 8th, 2007 03:20:26 PM
Last summer I was sorting my crap into "Keep in parents' garage" and "Just burn this shit" piles, and I came across the videos of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles "trilogy". And I sat down and watched those motherfuckers for a whole afternoon. The third one has that gorgeous chick from the movie where Ewan McGregor gets his knob out and has it written on (as opposed to his other movies where he just gets his knob out) but the first two definitely have the edge. Sam Rockwell, and Elias Koteas in non-Atom Egoyan shocker! Ernie Reyes, Jr and Paige Turco! Plus my video of the first one has a trailer for every Laurel & Hardy movie ever made, The Simpsons, and some '80s flick called Electric Dreams which I have never seen, even though I love '80s movies. Has anyone seen Electric Dreams? Is it worth 15 years of anticipation? The point is, I will probably don a disguise and go and see this new Turtles cartoon, but the puppet versions will always hold a special place in my heart, just like my left ventricle and that girl who never called me back. Bitch.
ye old shiza by Dick Nicely	Jan 8th, 2007 03:28:35 PM
You will not be disappointed. I met Cuaron when he did a Q&A with Y Tu Mama Tambien in Scotland, and announced his intentions to make Children of Men. He's a charismatic, down-to-earth dude. And Children of Men is similarly epic without being epic, if you know what I mean. As for the statue, I find that mildly heating the starbursts helps, as does a toothpick or cocktail stick for moulding purposes.
TMNT by PwnedByStallone	Jan 8th, 2007 03:30:19 PM
I have to agree with iamnicksaicnsn on this one. The intial "announcement" or whatever made me think it would be more adult, but that teaser trailer left me cold. It was overly catoony. Can't these bitchs just make it like the original comic which was fucking hardcore? For Christ's sake.
TMNT2 by Dick Nicely	Jan 8th, 2007 03:38:40 PM
What was that fucking cow's head thing called in the comic? The only comic I ever had the chutzpah to purchase, and I can't remember much of it at all.
Dick Nicely by ye olde shiza	Jan 8th, 2007 03:39:43 PM
Now, I just need to wait for the Saints to win their playoff game against the Eagles, and I can hop off to the theater to take in some Children of Men. A perfect day! Mmmm .... starbursts.
ye olde correctly-spelled shiza by Dick Nicely	Jan 8th, 2007 03:53:33 PM
Sweet, fella. To me, saints are solemn dudes in white robes and eagles are flying bastards who kill sheep, but I like your sports enthusiasm. Starbursts used to be called Opal Fruits in Scotland. I experimented once in turning an entire packet into a chain and giving it to my sister as a really cheap necklace. She had colouration on her neck for days, hehehe. But I reckon you could amass enough green ones (plus red, orange and purple) to make a three-quarters complete set of Ninja Turtles. And why are there no blue Starbursts? Is Leonardo too much of a wuss? The dude carries two swords, for fuck sake. Plus he was arguably the greatest of the Renaissance artists, and as I recall, drove the fucking Turtle van.
TMNT - It's Dyno-mite! by ye olde shiza	Jan 8th, 2007 04:34:24 PM
Actually, the new movie looks a little goofy to me. Not that I have much in the way of Ninja-Turtles saavy ... I've only watched the puppet films and had a single toy (Donatello). I'm thinking that blue opal fruits would leave a sour look on folks, faces. It just doesn't evoke that tropical feel ... maybe if they made a batch of Starbursts modeled after the last advances I made toward my girlfriend, blue would fit in just fine. And yeah ... why does Casey Jones look like a total dipshit in the trailer? I always thought him as more of a Bruce Campbell or Glenn Danzig type of guy.
TMNT/Starburst Flava by Dick Nicely	Jan 8th, 2007 05:00:48 PM
If you ask me, it's nature's fault for not providing us with sweet-tasting blue tropical fruit. I think I had a lot of the toys, although I can't remember how many I bought and how many I stole from my mates. I definitely had the whole set of turtles. Casey Jones? I haven't seen the trailer, but for me he will always be Elias Koteas, and the reason I actually watched those Atom Egoyan movies. Bruce Campbell would have been better, though, if only because it would have drawn me to Evil Dead 2 at a slightly younger age.
Posted in another talkback, will repost here by Novaman5000	Jan 8th, 2007 05:01:04 PM
We don't know what caused the sterility because the CHARACTERS don't know. And ultimately, it doesn't matter why. It really doesn't. Does knowing why bad things happen make living afterwards any better or easier? Not really. The question isn't "why did this happen?" It's: "What do we do now?"
iamnicksaicnsn - RE: scene in CoM by Lando Griffin	Jan 8th, 2007 06:14:07 PM
same scene had me feeling the ducts well up a bit and thats a rare thing.
Novaman5000 by Lando Griffin	Jan 8th, 2007 06:16:57 PM
great post! The movie was so captivating that I didn't want a dummied up explanation presented to me. It worked so well that I didn't need one or even care to have one after the credits rolled and I had time to take it all in.
V for Vendetta comparison by Lujho	Jan 8th, 2007 07:06:55 PM
I was quite pleased to see you bring up V for Vendetta in comparison with Children of Men. I couldn't help but compare the two when I saw COM either. Children has a subtlety and intelligence that V wishes it had. Or perhaps just that I wish it had. I'd have loved to see V taken on by someone of Cuaron's calibre because as it is V was quite a disappointment to me. I honestly can't believe the love it gets.
ZIONDRAGON by J Skell	Jan 8th, 2007 07:58:33 PM
I submitted a review of Pan's Labrynth that was absolutely glowing... And it wasn't put up. I believe it was well-written, so I can't speak fully for the objective nature of what is put up, but I believe that jumping to the conclusion they did post your review because you had some criticisms might be a little presumptious. (They had posted many already.)
seanmiller, exactly what i was thinkin' by occula	Jan 8th, 2007 08:06:18 PM
you nailed it about the grape. that's an old element of fairy tales...kind of hearkening back to the apple and the garden of eden, the idea of doing something forbidden even if it seems (from a story point of view!!) illogical. i feel like he used a lot of very simple plot elements - the bit about planting the antibiotic, the grapes, the tasks - because they are important in how a fairy tale unfolds. they play into very deep-set [dare i say it] jungian concepts that have been part of storytelling, cross-culturally, for centuries upon centuries. i think del toro did an elegant, touching job of giving us a genuine fairy tale without pandering.
Children of Men and infertility. by Lenny Nero	Jan 8th, 2007 08:08:02 PM
SPOILERS!!!! For those complaining about the lack of explanation re: the infertility, you have to think long and hard to yourself why, if at all, this would make anything better. What reasonable explanation could possibly be given that wouldn't seen either a) far-fetched or b) pressing a strong political agenda unnecessary in terms of the screenplay's story? It's a MacGuffin, a catalyst. We are to care about the central characters, not the catalyst itself. For those who don't like the ending and think it comes too soon, ponder this: the story, we are given the basic plot early on--bring the pregnant girl to the boat. He does. The end.
Thanks Calamity - HALF NELSON by Mr. Winston	Jan 8th, 2007 09:43:51 PM
I completely forgot, Mori, to exclaim that I agree with you 100% on HALF NELSON. Gosling is reaching something of a savant-level capacity as an actor. I haven't seen him in anything where he's not tremendous. But the film was frustrating because it built up this unique student/teacher relationship (not in a Mary Kay LaTourneau way) via two fascinating characters...and then gives them nowhere to go and nothing to do. It's actually one of the facets of independent film that I find most fascinating and most frustrating - all of these writers and directors manage to create the most compelling characters and forget to involve them in an equally compelling story. In fact, I'd strike out so far as to say that this, in the end, is what keeps most independent film from being accessible to the masses. That and the fact that most people are of blinding stupidity.
Moriarty, do you read Turan on Eastwood in the Times? by Charles Grady	Jan 8th, 2007 09:50:09 PM
HUGE Clint fan here, yes, up to and including his recent stuff that you've had issues with, Drew. But have you read Kenneth Turan in recent months in the Times? If I love the recent Clint flicks and can STILL get embarrassed by KT'S fawning, it must drive you absolutely mental. Turan is stodgy beyond belief anyway, but recently he seems to have devoted himself to pimping Clint nonstop-- he not only reviewed both films, not only included FLAGS and LETTERS as his number one film of the year, but he also wrote an embarrassing diatribe lambasting Mel Gibson's directorial output in comparison to the work of God (Clint, to Turan.) Come on, Moriarty, make one talkbacker's day and gimme your take on OLD MAN TURAN.
The most hilarious troll ever! by theoneofblood	Jan 8th, 2007 11:57:14 PM
Seriously, go and check out Alfonso Cuaron's message board on IMDB. There's a moronic teenage girl on there who spends two hours EVERY DAY burning any thread which remotely supports Cuaron to the ground. What's even funnier is watching the other members attempting to argue with her instead of using their fucking brains and putting her on ignore. That said, some of the arguments with her are pretty funny. She loves to use the word "Filth", "Trash", "Garbage" or combinations! "Filthy garbage", "Trashy Filth". I am GREATLY amused.
Theoneofblood, what's the name of this troll? by Lenny Nero	Jan 9th, 2007 12:19:26 AM
I fear that if I go through thread after imdb thread trying to look for a troll on the boards, I may lose my mind and start punching bitches left and right. Save me some time so I can properly focus my anger?
Troll, thy name be Einoreid! by theoneofblood	Jan 9th, 2007 01:54:40 AM
Her boyfriend has currently taken to logging on as well, I'll leave it up to you to guess which one he is. She's also completely obliterated the Prisoner of Azkhaban board. Apparently she's been doing this daily for two years.
Lenny... by TheRealMoriarty	Jan 9th, 2007 02:17:05 AM
... you made me belly laugh. Congrats. Please go start punching bitches left and right on the IMDb boards. I'm sure they need it.
mustn't let the black box be last... by just pillow talk	Jan 9th, 2007 07:14:48 AM
I personally liked the ending of Children of Men. As Lenny stated it showed Theo's journey, beginning to end. Much like no explanation was needed for how she got pregnant, there is no further need to elaborate as to what happens once she is rescued by the boat. Does the world 'bounce' back? Perhaps, perhaps not. Isolated incident or the beginnings of a 'rebirth' of society?
oh, and i have Talledega Nights coming too... by just pillow talk	Jan 9th, 2007 07:19:36 AM
hoping that'll provide me with some laughs, because Will has been a little hit and miss with me. I just couldn't get into Anchor Man (thought Steve Carrell was the funny bastard in that), thought he was perfect for Elf (wife loves that one), and he had some great fuck'n scenes in Old School.
Re: CHILDREN OF MEN QUESTION by Kirbymanly	Jan 9th, 2007 01:19:09 PM
I loved this film... one of the best movies I've seen in some time... but I have a question: What was the whole thing with Clive Owen and animals about?
Theo attracts the pussy by just pillow talk	Jan 9th, 2007 02:30:48 PM
cats..and bitches (dogs) too. They could sense a 'good' soul. Beats the fuck outta me. Maybe on weekends he donated his time to the local pet shelter?
J Skell by ziondragon	Jan 9th, 2007 05:12:33 PM
actually, I don't mind my review not being put up and I suppose that it wasn't good enough or whatever. I'm not bitchin' because my ego was hurt. that's not my point, but just an example. to make it short, all the coverage of pan's on this site was a non-plus-ultra glorifying ado about it being shy of a miracle. and it is not the first movie that's being overblown because of marketing, financial or other reasons that have nothing to do with the actual quality of the given movie. think king kong, the fountain, kiss-kiss, hostel, cabin fever (eli roth in general) and similar stuff. I love this site, but it seems that it has lost it's edge somehow. seems that the head geeks have sold their souls for a few pieces of silver on more than one occasion and that bothers me. mainly because I was always coming to this site to get a straight and honest word about a movie. movies are made to make money, it's a business after all, but they are also made for us to enjoy them. if you believe someone and that get lied once, twice, three times and so on, how log will it take for you to start questioning their integrity? that's just my opinion, it doesn't mean I'm right. by the way CoM is a excellent movie. I agree at least on that one.
children of men ... by AllieJamison	Jan 9th, 2007 07:33:30 PM
the online post-release HYPE for children of men is fucking big. maybe, though, it's just a novum, that I can really share this feeling of having seen a great movie, because our german release was even before the US release. it's great to live through these glorious times.
A Disagreement Over A Film... by TheRealMoriarty	Jan 10th, 2007 02:46:00 AM
... is not a lie, Ziondragon. And with all the films you've listed, it's not like there was any one concensus here on the site, one opinion and no others. I hated CABIN FEVER, for example, even when others here loved it to death, and my KING KONG review was mixed, not ecstatic. I can tell you that we stopped running reviews for some films this year because we just go so fucking many of them that it was pointless. We don't "kill" bad reviews, and I've put up so many reviews I disagree with on this site that I've lost count. That's what I love about writing here, and that's why I won't leave. AICN isn't one opinion... it's about the meeting of many opinions. And my soul's perfectly intact, thanks for asking.
Children of...Meh by Jahrta	Jan 10th, 2007 08:50:12 AM
I honestly don't know what the fuck has all of you going cuckoo bananas over this film. It's a warmed-over 1984 without any of the understanding for how we approached this level of dystopian hopelessness. Women all of a sudden stop having babies, and we are supposed to believe that the only people working on figuring this out is a covert group called "the human project." As if there wouldn't be about a billion corporations looking to cash in on a cure. Also, have all other mammals stopped reproducing? This is never addressed. I found it highly annoying that the woman who can help redeem humanity is named "key" - give me a fucking break. Moore's character is thrown into the mix to try to give a bit of much-needed backstory to Clive Owen's depressed pot-fiend Theo, but she only winds up adding a lot of unanswered audience questions. I didn't even flinch or care when her on-screen time was cut short. I felt the same with other characters, some of whom were supremely annoying. And while I'm having a rant, what was the point of trying to show Theo's job in the first few minutes of the movie? It's not as if he ever goes back there, or that they even explain what his job entails. The only good thing in this movie were the fire-fights. And if that's what you're looking for, rent Saving Private Ryan (which they stole from anyway - won't say how). I'd also recommend 28 days later for a similar feel. I know lots of you don't mind having a thousand unanswered questions - I find it supremely annoying.
Jahrta by just pillow talk	Jan 10th, 2007 09:23:21 AM
That's cool that you didn't dig the film. I do not recall if they said the "human project" was the only group that was trying to figure it out, but perhaps the only group that could be 'trusted'. And I saw the point of Theo being shown at work as his indifference to the world's situation. While everyone was grieving over the loss of Diego, he gave two shits. I think they were just trying to establish a starting point for his frame of mind, to where he ends up at the end of the film. And the point of the movie wasn't the fire-fights like Saving Private Ryan, so I would never compare the two in that regard. It was the introduction of another situation that Theo and Key needed to get through. Hey, the unanswered questions bothered my wife, but that's because she's an engineer and they are strange like that.
Saving Ryan's Privates by Jahrta	Jan 10th, 2007 01:54:09 PM
Yeah, I know that this movie can't really be compared to SPR, the only reason I brought it up was for the feeling of "being there" in the nitty-gritty feeling of a good ol' fashioned firefight (and also because of the opening sequence with that bombing victim who emerged screaming clutching...spoiler well...nevermind what she was clutching). I know what Cuaron was trying to accomplish with this piece, but ultimately I felt that the annoying characters and multitude of unanswered/unaddressed issues detracted from the story to the point where I found myself simply losing interest. I didn't think too much of the dialogue, either - I don't have a problem with swearing but some directors use it in place of true character development. I think Cuaron flirted with that here.
Jahrta: re: Other mammals in Children of Men by Gwai Lo	Jan 10th, 2007 02:01:08 PM
It's pretty obvious the animals haven't stopped reproducing. Everyone has dogs and cats, like they're replacing the babies. There's a kitten that hangs off Clive Owen's leg in one scene. There's a deer, and a barn full of animals, and several young dogs. The only thing I noticed that shows animal death was the burning horses. Who knows why the horses were being burnt. So I think it's safe to say it's just humans that have stopped reproducing. I think it's better that it's left kind of ambiguous, too much exposition would be intrusive to the narrative. They've all been living in that reality, they wouldn't have the situation explained to them all day every day. Its the kind of film that can be watched 50 times before you get all the details sorted out.
re: A Disagreement Over A Film... by ziondragon	Jan 10th, 2007 02:07:13 PM
...is a good starting point for a healthy discussion. Maybe my choice of words was a bit too strong (english is not my native language) when I said "lie", but I consider my self a fanatic movie lover and when I see a safe harbor for fanatic movie lovers like this site turn into a extension of a studio marketing office I get a bit nervous. Seen this happening too often in the last year or so, so I might be a bit sour. As far as your soul & integrity are concerned I believe You, for if there wasn't for You, the mighty Vern and Capone, I'd left this site a long time ago. Fairness is the key word here, let's show things as they are because no hype could turn king kong into king kong, superman returns into superman, or whatever. I thank GDT for delivering us a very good movie but it is not a masterpiece, not even close.
A few more points by Gwai Lo	Jan 10th, 2007 02:08:45 PM
I also think that we have no idea of what's going on in the rest of the world in Children of Men. We just see one piece of propoganda, Britain Marches On or whatever, and assume that this is as peaceful as it gets. Refugees and immigrants have been rounded up in concentration camps. An island empire has completely internalized. Who knows if the Human Project is the best hope for humanity, it's not clear what is going on at all as society has lapsed into complete chaos. They clearly don't have a scientific explanation for the lack of reproduction, you would assume that many corporations would be "working on it". We haven't cured AIDs or cancer, have we? To have all the questions answered point blank would take all the fun out of the movie, because most of those blanks can be filled in yourself if you think about it long enough.
Britain Soilders On! by just pillow talk	Jan 10th, 2007 02:21:18 PM
I'm on the side of the fence that didn't want any of this explained. They've arrived at that shitty time, and now perhaps an answer/opportunity has presented itself. How people choose to handle it is what the movie presents. Some for political gain, others for just a way out, while others have a pure motive to help.
the last minutes were genius by joesnuff	Jan 10th, 2007 05:52:33 PM
I'd like to hear more input on the poor narrative in the last minutes, because I couldn't disagree more as it stands. Well, the way in which I disagree is that the narrative by that point, in and of itself is purely subtext brought out in the full light of day. But that makes it the crowning of the entire effort where these looming themes had been running along in lesser streams before they coalesced. But even more, the glory of the final moments is in visually bringing together all the strings of cinematic experiments for a unique sequence of pure movements that shift us from the disembodied stae of embedded journalism, to becoming the locus of attention and even bending the environment back upon ourselves. It's as if to say: "Now that you have tried to comfort yourselves in believing you are an immaterial participant in this brutal noir opera, the world has stopped and turned all its eyes upon you. You have affected this world by your presence, but this world has also mortally wounded you after all." And then with the next tank explosion, we are shifted again via tunnel (passageway to the next cinematic world of pure space). Although the director has borrowed many elements from the masters, he has in that last scene brought together something altogether new and defining in the history of cinema. We haven't seen anything like this before, period. Gilliam shouldn't even be considered a valid comparison because Gilliam was fueled by his gut not the intelligence of film mechanics. just my thoughts
an effective dystopia by joesnuff	Jan 10th, 2007 06:00:03 PM
Children of Men works better than other visions because the blame game is not so cut and dry. We have competing interpretations of the state of the world: pure chance or the trials of faith. Unexplainable circumstances, you know "this is something that just happened", clear the air for the real drama: how are individuals and worldviews reacting to it? What sort of character will be expressed and intensified in these hyperbolic situations? How will society redefine itself due to something over which it has no control? Are we learning something more pure and unveiled about basic human nature? Political and blunt social issues currently under debate are only there to obscure the real investigation. So the fact that the story doesn't completely depend on political debates and overt social issues makes it way more ominous in what we are being asked to face.
Animals and Immigrants by Jahrta	Jan 11th, 2007 10:57:15 AM
Yeah I thought about the pets, et al, after I posted that last comment. I did find it sort of stupid how they don't at least give some sort of explanation for the surge in xenophobia which leads to extermination camps for illegal immigrants in England. Of all the daunting issues facing a world in which people have lost the ability to reproduce, would we really be so caught up in rounding up illegals? How come no one ever mentions human cloning, for example?
sci fi loopholes by joesnuff	Jan 11th, 2007 02:09:15 PM
The problem with most sci fi films is the unnatural lulls in the script used to teach and explain to us all the reasons why we should be convinced of their vision of the future. And it opens up more potential for holes in the script the more that is explained. Children of Men says, "this is just the way it is". Don't ask for reasons, because everyone's got all their own theories and that's the best we can do. So in that sense, the world here is more convincing because we can already easily relate to aspects of reality that don't seem to have good explanations, while many political and philosophical sectors will give their own answers or criticisms. In this kind of sci fi, the air is cleared for a purer development of simple narrative that dances on the roaring undercurrents of existential dilemmas. j

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