Ain't It Cool News: The best in movie, TV, DVD, and comic book news.

Tons of GOLDEN COMPASS stills, Batch #1!!! Scorsby! Asriel! Lyra!!!

Beard. Jame by Kurzinski Valentine	Jan 4th, 2007 07:22:12 PM
James Beard.
I started reading the Golden Compass... by Son of Batman	Jan 4th, 2007 07:22:36 PM
and then I realized it was retarded and stopped. NO, you're retarded!
Daniel Craig looks like Hank Scorpio!! by Vim Fuego	Jan 4th, 2007 07:30:42 PM
I've never had to phone my own office.
it helps hide his little chin... by Citizin_insane	Jan 4th, 2007 07:30:50 PM
the beard that is.
Caption for second to last photo: by Pound Sand	Jan 4th, 2007 07:31:33 PM
"Way out west there was this fella I wanna tell ya about."
Vim Fuego by halfmahalfn	Jan 4th, 2007 07:43:26 PM
Bestest observation on AICN today. Easy. Congrats.
And What's David Bellamy doing in the 3rd picture? by Vim Fuego	Jan 4th, 2007 07:50:11 PM
Gwapple me Gwapenuts!
looks good. by samsquanch	Jan 4th, 2007 07:51:04 PM
Kidman looks really good, Craig is bringing some star power, the kids and sets look like they actually exist, there's promise here. I wonder how loud the protest against this thing will get? If you've read the books you know why I'm asking.
Quint, "The Subtle Knife"... by keepcoolbutcare	Jan 4th, 2007 08:08:48 PM
is my fave of the series. No confusing exposition which drags down the opening of "The Golden Compass", none of the bloat of "The Amber Spyglass", and it introduces Will, the second most kickass character in the series, after everyone's favorite badass armored polar bear...
Can anyone nutshell this thing for me? by CreasyBear	Jan 4th, 2007 08:21:59 PM
Is it an Alice in Wonderland reality / fantasy story, or alternate world, or what?
In a Nutshell... by Christopher3	Jan 4th, 2007 08:36:55 PM
Little girl and young boy acquire magic objects to travel among separate dimensions and have adventures; little girl's parents unite to destroy a false god and the church which upholds it. Alternate world type thing - the main action occurs in a Victorian-inspired steampunk-ish universe, not our own.
Did Somebody Say HOT FUZZ STREET TEAM? by Finchmeister	Jan 4th, 2007 08:39:21 PM
http://www.jointhefuzz.com/lin kpost.php?i=450 WHOA!
... and guess what ... by TodayzSpecial	Jan 4th, 2007 08:42:11 PM
These stories definitely do NOT have a happy ending.
Christopher-3: Thanks for the summary! by CreasyBear	Jan 4th, 2007 09:32:52 PM
.
Hey, I'm all for... by Christopher3	Jan 4th, 2007 09:41:12 PM
Combatting Christian propaganda, but the way you do that is by educating people and teaching them to think for themselves, not by perpetrating another kind of propaganda. Otherwise you'll just wind up in the South Park 26th Century Wii Episode universe. Props to Pullman for knocking the hidebound structure of organized religion, but I'm more comfortable enjoying this series -- both books and movies -- as a piece of intelligent fantasy than as a pro-atheist screed. The ironic thing about these books is that despite their anti-organized religion stance, they borrow greatly from Christian-inspired works, and thus your appreciation of Pullman's craft is much enhanced if you come from a religious background. He's a perverse fellow.
regarding: nutshell/spoilers by podunk411	Jan 4th, 2007 09:53:06 PM
The Golden Compass (the first book) doesn't really get into the other dimensions yet(or her kickass partner Will)--it's just Lyra's story (the little girl) until the second book. Unless they're mashing the first two books together. anyone know if they are?
Dear lord not more kids in movies! by Deus Vult	Jan 4th, 2007 10:06:28 PM
Kids in movies are only entertaining if they're Iranian suicide bombers walking into the Iraqi mine fields during the 80-89 war to clear paths for noble Shi'ite soldiers to take pot-shots at the Sunnis. Does this make any sense to anyone on this site?
Sam Elliot by Forestal	Jan 4th, 2007 11:38:36 PM
Is anyone else fucking sick of Sam Elliot playing cowboys!?
I like Daniel Craig 's beard by Ribbons	Jan 4th, 2007 11:46:16 PM
It's mad bristly, yo.
well, there was a man, by imageburn13	Jan 5th, 2007 12:01:30 AM
there was a man,
In answer to your question forestal...... by Jimmy Jazz	Jan 5th, 2007 12:28:31 AM
No. He is one of the few left who can still convincingly play one. He likes playing one. And we love him for it. "The Dude abides..."
Daniel Craig by IMScully33	Jan 5th, 2007 01:11:08 AM
I will eat my words if I am wrong, but what a poor choice for Asriel, at least from the pictures. Nothing about him inspires a massive revolt against Heaven. More like "doesn't take Chaucer papers late."
This shit was on IGN WEEKS AGO!! by wolvenom	Jan 5th, 2007 02:26:27 AM
Shit like this shows why AICN sucks balls and will continue to suck balls in terms of its content....... i dont even think they've reported on the god damn silver surfer trailer yet or if they even know about it
What's with you morons about "Christian Propaganda"? by Triumph poops!	Jan 5th, 2007 02:58:21 AM
For fuck's sake, what, your parents MADE you go to Sunday school as a kid and you never got over it? Fuck you, you hate-filled whiners. If you don't like Christianity or those who happen to believe in it -- or for that matter don't like anyone who choose to have ANY branch of religion in their lives, regardless what their faith might be -- here's a tip. Now that you're an adult, you actually DON'T have to participate (that's right, contrary to the picture you retards paint there's NO mandatory participation clause for living in today's modern society) which means you can just go off and do whatever dimwitted shit YOU are interested in. That's right, you actually CAN just go off on your own merry way and do your own thing. There, satisfied? Gee, THAT wasn't too hard to figure out, now was it?
Triumph poops! by TinSpider	Jan 5th, 2007 04:02:11 AM
That's utter bollocks. I'm not religious at all. My wife is a catholic and I had to go through so much shit with the catholic church just to marry the woman I love. I had to attend several masses - despite not believing a word that was said, I had to say my children would be brought up as Catholics, I had to endure one on one conversations with three different priests telling me to 'keep an open mind and give god a go' and I had to go to some fucking marriage guidance group to make sure I was going to be a good husband - so don't you fucking dare tell me I can do what ever dimshitted thing I want, because I can't... and it seems the catholic church has plans to brainwash my children before they are even born.
wolvenom by Shermdawg	Jan 5th, 2007 04:24:37 AM
Where were you last week? Jeez, do a search before you bitch about AICN not doing a story on something.
And furtermore, ign did NOT have this "shit" weeks ago. by Shermdawg	Jan 5th, 2007 04:30:58 AM
They put up the pics yesterday as well.
Wolvenom..go away by Jugs	Jan 5th, 2007 04:35:03 AM
If you don't like this site...f*** off! Nicole Kidman looks good, but her hands!! Looks like they were grafted from a ninety year old..
Where are all the Daemons????? by feebster69	Jan 5th, 2007 05:54:16 AM
They should be sitting on everyone's shoulders, shouldn't they?
feebster by Cameron1	Jan 5th, 2007 06:11:34 AM
Daemon will be all cgi I would imagine, I would have liked some animatronic deamons but it's unlikely.
Looks really good... by APB-9	Jan 5th, 2007 06:44:46 AM
I loved these books so much, looks like they have the feel really spot on the the world in the books. Be interesting to see how they handle the Daemons.
I'm actually excited about this. by brycemonkey	Jan 5th, 2007 06:49:45 AM
The casting looks great and I must say Kidman looks perfect, really hot but very creepy. You'd try to do her, but you might not be able to get it up...
From the co-director of American Pie by DirkD13"	Jan 5th, 2007 07:09:26 AM
Should be the tagline.
Nicole Kidman sucks by Thomas Cromwell	Jan 5th, 2007 07:23:21 AM
Shes an irritating and overpaid stick whose idea of 'acting' involves panting and squeaking a lot. Hermione Norris from 'Spooks' [MI5] would make a better Mrs Coulter by far (she's hotter and acts better too)
Triumph poops! & plantpage55 by EddieBlake	Jan 5th, 2007 07:35:02 AM
Wow. I commend your comments. They are the true face of Christian principles and one of the reasons why such a hypocritical institution as organized religion is so widely hated by rational thinking people. You are stellar examples of the principles taught by Christianity. Not that you should spread love and turn the other cheek, but that you should go forth and spread bile and venom to all the nonbelievers. Reinstitute the Crusades and the Inquisition!! Quick!! Before too many people start to think for themselves!
I think the 3rd book is definitely VERY flawed . . . by Nice Marmot	Jan 5th, 2007 07:37:07 AM
. . . but far from sucking as bad as so many here say. The 2nd one, to me is, great, if not a bit stronger than the first.
these stills look like a million bucks, but... by GriffinMill	Jan 5th, 2007 07:43:05 AM
SHOW ME THE BEAR! I want my fix of Iorek Byrnison right now!
Agreed Marmot, great but flawed experiment. by brycemonkey	Jan 5th, 2007 07:45:59 AM
It showed that a 'kids' series can't quite cover love, religion, sexuality, quantum physics and God. But it can damn well try and make it pretty fun too!
Fort those who are asking whats it all about let me by emeraldboy	Jan 5th, 2007 08:14:25 AM
This contains spoilers.... This trilogy is about a young girl called Lyra. who lives with a person she thinks is her uncle in the spectacular Jordan college. She has a friend called Roger. At the start of the book Jordan college is hosting an important meeting and Lyra is caught be her uncle over hearing a classified conversation between her Uncle and a vip. She is caught and her uncle gives her a verbal scolding. Roger disappears. This is more than coincedental becuase of the arrival of Mrs Coulter. Who is utterly vile. Lyra hears of a golden ship and decides to rescue her friend roger. Lyra is Resourceful and when she gets caught, she finds roger who tells her that Mrs coulter is planning to do something terrible involving children in science experiment in artic. In these books your soul is represented by a dameon on the out side, so coulter planned a mass experiement to disconnect Daemons from children. That is all I am going to say but along the way lyra meets a texan called Lee Scoresby, Serefian Pekkala, discovers the fascist obligation board who are linked to the church. and what is dust? and why are so many people willing to kill for it and what has lyra go to do with all this. Watch the movie and find out. Meanwhile emeraldboy is off to find out and end the war between ward anderson and EFD.
Both my brother and I agree that Book three is by emeraldboy	Jan 5th, 2007 08:19:34 AM
terrible but for different reasons. He didnt like motorbike creatures. I hated lyras coming of age, it made me want to puke the way it was written.
Nicole Ice cold kidman by emeraldboy	Jan 5th, 2007 09:19:01 AM
I dont know if many saw her in the catastrophe that the imaginary Diane Arbus nonesense but seeing as it didnt even appear on a ones list of the best and worst, ill aasume the answer is no. Oh and by the way has anyone else noticed that apple and broken links are happening more and more.
Ice Cold by emeraldboy	Jan 5th, 2007 09:30:29 AM
has agreed to appear in a grief drama that did very well on broadway. will ice cold ever thaw out. My idea of a film nightmare is Ice cold and whiny paltrow starring in a film with renee or really glum as I call her. I see her in interviews and i want to shout out FOR FUCKS SAKE, CHEER UP.
RE: Craig = Hank Scorpio by Massage...Bored	Jan 5th, 2007 10:12:56 AM
Good fucking call! "Homer, when you go home tonight there's gonna be another story on your house." "If you could kill someone on your way out it'd be a big help."
Looks better than I expected by performingmonkey	Jan 5th, 2007 11:12:00 AM
I've read the books and YES part 3 (The Amber Spyglass) is a mess, but this first one should be very good indeed, as long as they've picked a girl who can ACT. She looks just OK for Lyra, perhaps too cute (why do I not know this business by now?) I always imagined her to be tougher-looking than that. In the book she is feisty and quite aggressive, a certain feral quality to her. Don't know if anyone else thought that. Anyhow, it's all looking good so far.
1st vs 2nd vs 3rd books by Kizeesh	Jan 5th, 2007 11:17:30 AM
The first is by far the best, the story is contained, linear and methodical. The second is all over the place, but its a continuation of the ideas of the first and has many good points after the very slow "Suddenly were in a real-world" beginning. The problem is the 3rd novel. Which not only eschews much of the point of the first 2, it loses track entirely of the running plot. Half the cast begin to act utterly out of character, (Lord Asrael and Mr Coulter especially) and whats even worse the end is silly and not in keeping with the characters either, or realistic human emotions. It becomes a thinly veiled rant against christianity, religious wars, and the destruction of the natural world at the expense of the storyline as had existed through the first two books.
HDM Versus Religion? by pen to the page	Jan 5th, 2007 12:08:32 PM
I wrote my Honors Thesis on His Dark Materials, and after all the research and close reading I did, here's my conclusion. The trilogy rallies against totalitarian authority--whether it be a religion, science, or otherwise. Anything that tries to deny the totality of a human (the trilogy looks at people as being "tripartite"--having three parts; body, soul, spirit) is limiting people's ability to act freely, so it's bad. Most of the trilogy looks at a totalitarian religion that way - but remember, it's not exactly like our world's religions; it's warning against the possibility of religion taking over. And certainly, the Authority was a liar, but remember that he does not only stand for "God" -- he stands for what his name says, "Authority" in general. For example, the scientists in Will's world were equally bad. Diana.gauvin@gmail.com... let me know if anyone wants to read my thesis by emailing me.
Looks cool but where are the familiars? by Reelheed	Jan 5th, 2007 01:11:45 PM
Isn't everyone supposed to have magic pet thingies?
Indiana Jones and.,, by Forestal	Jan 5th, 2007 01:22:36 PM
The Fantasy Of Having Sex With Nicole Kidman
Although this talkback feels a little too much..... by samsquanch	Jan 5th, 2007 01:38:41 PM
Like an adolecsent hormonal steambath, I'll risk dipping my toe in to at least make one more comment- If you've read the books, you'll realize that the overarching point of the story is one that encourages philosophical and spiritual critical thinking for children. Unlike most popular children's stories, although they promote vague ideals like "be yourself" or "believe in yourself", (which are all well and good, sure) they tend to have a uniform moral tone, complete with evil being punished and a happy ending for the heroes. This formula works, and is popular for a reason, and I don't have any problem with it on principle. The "His Dark Materials" series is a unique kind of children's story, in that there is no happy ending guaranteed for anyone, that even children have to make real sacrifices, not the least of which is growing up, and that "evil" is not such an easily recognizable quality as was suspected. I can understand why some people might have a knee-jerk reaction against this story for some of it's more jarring details, not the least of which is it's questioning of organized religion. All I ask is that you don't immediately fly off the handle and assume that it's "Anti-Christian." Like many other stories that include the mere topic of "the church" in it's pages, there will of course be the obligatory crazies foaming at the mouth, claiming all kinds of slander and harm has been done to them, but I'm appealing to the saner buch who are willing to listen to reason. What the book does is ask children to ask themselves what the difference might be between organised religion, man's construct, and the meaning, and source of their own faith. To believe in God is one thing, but to believe in one church or another is quite another matter. For me this is an ongoing question I ask myself as an adult, and is the source in large measure of my continuing interest in the topic of religion in general. This is a fair question for anyone, including kids. After all, If you're a Christian, who do you put more faith in? Whatever the modern incarnation of your church might be at this moment, or Christ himself? I think it's a wonderful idea to introduce to kids, not harmful at all, and definitely not anti-Christian. Give it a chance, you might be suprised at how much you like the story.
what moralists up in arms were the gay angels by emeraldboy	Jan 5th, 2007 01:59:42 PM
Balthamus and Baruche. Its been couple of years since I have read these books. Also the whole republic of heaven angle really hade people lik Peter Hitchens foaming at the mouth.
Gay angels by Kizeesh	Jan 5th, 2007 02:08:57 PM
Bizarre it never even occured to me that people would take offense at that rather than the portrayal of God as a drooling incontinent vegetable.
Only in America by Sepulchrave	Jan 5th, 2007 02:12:51 PM
do you have to listen to arseholes of faith wittering on about 'their beliefs' on public messageboards. Thank the AntiChrist I don't live in this developing country.
not God by samsquanch	Jan 5th, 2007 02:18:59 PM
get your facts straight
dstrbro by Phimseto	Jan 5th, 2007 02:24:07 PM
Hey, I appreciate your wading in. I wouldn't say people's reactions are "knee-jerk." The problem with the latter two books is that they go beyond questioning and become a kind of children's "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" for the Catholic set. I do not say that lightly, but I do say it - there is absolute venom and hate in Pullman's narrative to the point where the narrative goes off the rails, its climax becomes a polemic, and its resolution snide and petty. My regret about these movies being made is that I genuinely think they are a sugar-coated poison pill for kids. The books seem less interested in teaching critical thinking than they do promoting another point of view almost exclusively by tearing into and misrepresenting an opposite philosophy. Could Pullman have made his point telling his story in a different way? Possibly not, but I found the end result of HDM an ugly thing and I'm not sure Pullman would have wanted to tell it differently if he could have.
Authority then by Kizeesh	Jan 5th, 2007 02:28:04 PM
Its essentially God, despite him saying its not actually God, its effectively God to all extents and purposes as its a being which fulfills the criterion of being God.
I like the casting by Black And Gold	Jan 5th, 2007 02:40:33 PM
I think the cast looks great. Lyra looks perfect. I always imagined Miss Coulter with red hair for some reason but it's been a long time since I read the books. I'll have to revisit them again before this hits.
Anti-Christian by rblakeney	Jan 5th, 2007 02:43:21 PM
I must say that I really enjoyed the first book. And, for that matter, the entire story. However, as a Christian and a Pastor, I was very troubled by the religious parts of the story. I love the Harry Potter series; and am a fan of science fiction. After reading these books I've often wondered why so many Christians screamed about Harry Potter. My only guess is they are unfamiliar with this series. Potter doesn't hold a candle to these book when it comes to an anti-God and anti-Christian theme (I've never seen anything like that in Harry Potter). Let me count the ways: The church is evil. The gay angels and witches are good. They kill god. And it is their love; not God's, that saves the world. Do I think it is good for children? NO! I don't think it is a good idea to teach children that the church is evil and that they can do without God.
rblakeney: You are kidding right? by brycemonkey	Jan 5th, 2007 02:53:08 PM
It's hard to tell sarcasm on the TB... If you aren't then you are blind to the point of the books. The 'Church' is evil as it is dogmatic (as are the scientists and others). The point is to make up your own mind as to what God, love, spirituality and sexuality are to you, the individual. Although if you really are a Pastor then I can see why independant thought like that might scare you :-)
Wow, Brycemonkey... by Phimseto	Jan 5th, 2007 02:55:26 PM
...way to elevate the discourse. And since you have trouble discerning sarcasm, I'll let you know - that was sarcasm.
Sarcasm? by brycemonkey	Jan 5th, 2007 03:08:05 PM
I think I'll make up my own mind on that ;-) And it's not discourse, it's TB.
Phimesto by samsquanch	Jan 5th, 2007 03:24:06 PM
Compelling argument. I agree that there seems to be a bit of a bad smell emanating from the (latter) books, but I still think that taken as a whole, the series seeks to accomplish something that no other popular series that I can think of has even tried to do thus far- ask kids to think for themselves about the Big Questions. He respects the intelligence of children, a rare virtue in children's literature. I enjoy the Potter books, but even the Great Rowling Herself sometimes falls into the trap of thinking that children are stupid, and not merely young. I guess I'm willing to forgive his conciets, since they are as unique and rare as his virtues.
Kizeesh by samsquanch	Jan 5th, 2007 03:28:12 PM
It's been awhile since I read the books, but I seem to remember that the Authority character was actually an impostor that had usurped the throne from the true God, which sounds to me much more like a literal Lucifer character, and not "effectively God to all extents and purposes as its a being which fulfills the criterion of being God." You can't really get much more opposed characters than God and the Devil.
brycemonkey ;-) by rblakeney	Jan 5th, 2007 03:40:38 PM
I understand the point of the book alright; I attended courses in school intending to cause us to question everything we know or think we know. And, I don't have problems with critical thinking either. I welcome it. However, we are talking about a children's story. We need to be careful with our children. You can believe as you wish as an adult; you have the critical thinking skills by then to make those decisions for yourself. However, programming children against God is just as much brainwashing and dogma as some religion. We must keep in mind a very important truth. Every book, movie, tv show, etc. teaches something. It isn't all good. We as adults must monitor what our children read and watch. In other words, morality is always being taught. Who's morality do you want your children to learn - the church or ZombieSolutions?
The Authority vs God vs Satan by Kizeesh	Jan 5th, 2007 03:44:06 PM
My understanding was that the Authority was in fact the first creation of God, a leader amongst angels (I use the terms loosely) and he had taken over in God's absence since God himself had made himself unreachable to even the angels. I could be wrong, but that was my take on it. But as I said, effectively he's set himself up as God and is as close as you can get.
Fuckos by Quin the Eskimo	Jan 5th, 2007 04:05:52 PM
I'm really getting tired of the ignorance of those that think that Christians aren't intelluctually honest. People of all stripes and races and religions have a problem with intellectual integrity. It's their personal problem, not the orginizations, whom everyone loves pinning responsibility on. Oh, and ZombieSolutions is a cynical bigoted hatemonger, but I'll pray for his soul.
Fuck the golden compass by crackerfarmboy	Jan 5th, 2007 04:07:45 PM
Donald Trump is my MORAL compass! Fuck you Rosie you stupid whore!
Oh..AssZombieFaceSolutions by Quin the Eskimo	Jan 5th, 2007 04:14:27 PM
if evolutions were proved beyond a reasonable doubt, tomorrow, it wouldn't matter one whit. It's about the soul, not minor doctorine.
In response to Kizeesh... if by pen to the page	Jan 5th, 2007 04:22:58 PM
In response to Kizeesh... if the Authority is supposed to be God, remember that he is in a cage... caged by Metatron. Now I'm not trying to argue that this fits with Christian theology. But I am trying to say that once we know the whole truth, we can see that Pullman is leveling the main part of his critique on totalitarian religions, NOT on spiritual beliefs. Listen... the last thing we need is for this forum to be, like so much of the US these days, a battle of crusaders-versus-robots. I'm just a former Catholic-schoolgirl turned agnostic, sort of an old cliche... and I've read the trilogy with both perspectives. Either way, it's good literature. Sure, the third book increases the scope to make the thing more of a metanarrative, a la Paradise Lost... but it never loses the emotional concentration that makes the story amazing.
re: Pen to the page by Kizeesh	Jan 5th, 2007 04:32:26 PM
You're not allowed to play, you've studied it in too much depth already ;) j/k. I'm not on either side of the fence in as far of the religious argument, as I don't mind that side of things at all. My problems lie more in that I felt the narrative becomes overcomplicated, confused and nonsensical towards the end, losing all sense of the imperative for the main characters. At least in the first novel Lyra has a plan and in the second book is out to stop her parents. In the third book both children are following obscure instructions from random people with no real understanding of the point any more. I also don't agree at all that the book contains the emotional concentration, as the character mood-shifts were all out of place and not in keeping with the first 2 books.
Zombie Solutions- Pretty funny...cuz it's true by finky089	Jan 5th, 2007 05:02:53 PM
I've not yet read this series, though I am interested in it. As someone who is agnostic at best, and uninterested in following an organized religion (though I was brought up Jewish), its hard for me to find fault in your argument. And if I'm wrong I guess the omnipotent, invisible man in the sky will punish me for it after I die. "cuz I hear that he is a god that is all about love.
Although, you're more heavyhanded about it than I by finky089	Jan 5th, 2007 05:08:47 PM
typically am. Live and let live, is my motto. "Don't try to burden me with your beliefs and I won't force mine upon thee."
sam eliott by the_shogun_gunslinger	Jan 5th, 2007 06:15:18 PM
is wearing the same costume he wears in Ghost Rider, lol...hell its the same damn costume he wears in every movie he's in.
"The Dude abides" by Billyeveryteen	Jan 5th, 2007 06:46:24 PM
Amen.
Don't you stupid twats get it by Sepulchrave	Jan 5th, 2007 07:19:36 PM
The true God of His Dark Materials, the consciousness that motivates all the love and intelligence of the cosmos and which is under threat from the Church and the Authority is DUST. The heroes and heroines of the book SERVE GOD, which is the substance of creation, not a personality. The Church is a Church od EVIL that seeks to eradicate GOD, that is BEING, from the universe and replace it with blind submission to a cruel force of anti-life. It's VEDANTA versus JEHOVAH. And Vedanta wins. Morons.
They don't 'kill God' in this series! by performingmonkey	Jan 5th, 2007 08:03:54 PM
I ALWAYS see people saying that when it isn't true. Either you read The Amber Spyglass and didn't understand it (that's understandable I suppose, it IS a mess of a book) or you're just copying what other people have said. They kill The Authority who ISN'T God but sort of an evil bastard angel who is trying to rule as though he IS God. I think Pullman is trying to say in the books that God is all around us, that God essentially is LIFE and this image of an old white bearded bastard looking down on us all and ruling us as God should just be cast aside. It's true that Pullman's ranting kind of overshadows the actual fantasy plot in the last book and I PRAY that they sort it out in the movie (if it happens). The movies have the potential to be awesome where the later part of the books failed. By the way, anyone who has seen the Doctor Who season 2 finale 'Doomsday' and knows Pullman's series will know that Russell T Davies ripped ideas in the episodes from The Amber Spyglass, the ONLY good ideas in The Amber Spyglass!
Well... by Red Ned Lynch	Jan 5th, 2007 08:26:31 PM
...we are a very young species.
Artistic Integrity by ifmercyfalls	Jan 5th, 2007 08:53:03 PM
I'm a Christian, and I, for one, will be disappointed if the religious (or, if you prefer, anti-authoritarian) elements are removed. I believe the story paints a very inaccurate picture of reality (obviously it's a fantasy; I believe the underlying worldview to be flawed) but I still believe it deserves a chance to be told. I haven't done a thesis project on the books; as a member of Pullman's target audience (children/adolescents) when I read the books, I got a very strong anti-God impression from them. Yes, the characters don't actually kill "God" because he isn't really "God", but by presenting the God of the Christian Church as an impostor and postulating a secular, scientific explanation for the supernatural, Pullman effectively "kills" God. Pullman may indeed be simply anti-authoritarian, but I think the average reader can be forgiven for thinking otherwise. As far as the movie itself goes, I'm disappointed that they didn't try to use any real animals in the film. I can understand some of the issues (wasn't Asriel's daemon a snow leopard?) but If I'm not mistaken, Scoresby's daemon was a jackrabbit. That wouldn't have been too hard to pull off, would it?
I want my Manara´s Golden Ass adaptation by CuervoJones	Jan 6th, 2007 05:16:37 AM
The lady loves the donkey
The Authority is God. by Kizeesh	Jan 6th, 2007 08:12:08 AM
From a certain point of view. He is the Judeo-Christian idealised version of God. The fact that he is not in fact the creator of the universe, simply the oldest being created, does not chenge the fact that to all intents and purposes he is the godhead worshipped in these religions and the religion of Lyra's world. And Sepulchrave, no its not Vedanta vs Jehova at all. Nor does the church seek to kill god, they seek to stop the expulsion from paradise. So think a little before you run round calling people twats.
God dammit by Leopold Scotch	Jan 6th, 2007 10:45:44 AM
Most followers of any religion are probably fine human beings, as are most athiests or agnostics etc. Catholicism is having a bad time of it publicly, and it's a very easy target, as seen with this series (which I really enjoyed) and the likes of the Da Vinci Code. The reason for this is beacause Christianity for the most part is a religion practiced in the private sphere in the west, and any controversy will only exist publicly for the very few people for whom religion infests every single aspect of their waking lives, private or public. I did a creative writing class and it was so boring hearing the unbelievable amount of preachy short stroies written to discount every aspect of religion. There's no way I could continue living a totally devout, strict catholic life (believe it or not, most priests are aware that catholics are human), and I no longer go to church, but one thing that really, REALLY, annoys me is when a minority of athiests (who absolutely LOVE the fact that they're athiests) display the same type of intolerance and astromonical levels of generalisation that they criticise the church for. You think you're the first person to have thought about the things you're using to challenge religion? You think that because you don't have a religion, you're a better person, who has tapped into the true nature of the universe? That you're better than Christians, because Christians are stupid, and you have it all figured out? You think nobody religious has ever thought that it's irrational to follow God? That's what faith is about, dumbasses. I don't know if I have any more, but I'm not going to advocate the abolition of faith (to the detriment of billions of decent, good people) just because I watched the Magdalena Sisters or read one of these books. Nor am I going to say athiests are wrong not to believe because, as I said, it's just a minortiy of athiests who have managed to parallel themselves with the most fanatical, generalising and intolerant of religious follwers. So don't talk to me about ignorance, lies and hypocrisy.
Leopold Scotch by nemesisdarkside	Jan 6th, 2007 12:36:18 PM
Very well put. Finally someone who isn't generalising!
Nope I don't accept that by Sepulchrave	Jan 6th, 2007 06:03:00 PM
'Nor does the church seek to kill god, they seek to stop the expulsion from paradise. So think a little before you run round calling people twats.' Okay, you don't like the fact that I have more time for the idea of God as the fabric of universe and consciousness (vedanta) than God as a personality driven tyrant ruling us all like livestock (Jehovah) Well, I believe that the God I designated as Jehovah is a twat's God, a butcher, a psychopath, a schitozoid and tyrant. Oh and a TWAT. And his followers likewise. If that OT God IS your God, pardon me but fuck you. Fuck God the Father; fuck monotheism and fuck the Bible.
PS: Are you actually saying by Sepulchrave	Jan 6th, 2007 06:10:48 PM
that it's wrong to criticise the worship of a God that is demonstrably proven to be both false and wicked if the majority of people worship this dick? That lies are acceptable and repectable because they are widely believed by 'most of the world's people'. No; sorry, that's fucking ridiculous Nazi shit.
Mealy mouthed diplomacy by Sepulchrave	Jan 6th, 2007 06:19:22 PM
Eww; all religions are equal? Uh no, some of them are less barbaric, more in tune with sceince, more moderate, kinder and less violent than others. Monotheism is for trash; even as a religious belief system it should have been replaced by now, hmm, with a religion that, uh, maybe doesn't HATE WOMEN and want TO KILL ANYONE NOT OF THAT FAITH, a religion that bears some resemblance to the world that scientists have discovered and that doesn't ruthlessly evangelise and subjugate other faiths? Bye bye monotheism, you were always a heap of shit.
The Last Book Was The Series' Undoing by PervOmatic	Jan 6th, 2007 06:28:52 PM
The first two were fairly tightly wound adventure yarns that had me interested in the characters and the world. I wasn't enthralled and I has some issues with some things but I was still enjoying them. Then I got to the last volume and it was just all over the place. Too much crammed in and just overreaching with the underwold and the last battle bit that was so built up and such a dissapointment. I was really looking forward to the film versions while reading the first two volumes but after finishing the last one, I really barely even give a crap now. Looks decent enough though.
ifmercyfalls & others by rblakeney	Jan 6th, 2007 08:04:25 PM
Thank you ifmercyfalls. I generalized about him (pullman) killing God because I figured you all would understand that although he doesn't actually kill God, that is the effect. What is always amazing to me in these forums is the non-Christians who are filled with so much hate. They attack the Christians and accuse them of all kinds of evil; yet, they display the very things they accuse the Christians of. I agree that many athiests are good people. I have some very close friends that are athiests. And, I love them very much. We have great fun debating things. I wonder why we can't civilly discuss the books no matter what background we come from. We're not here to attack each other. Let's embrace our differences and enjoy the pleasure of a good book. And, I for one, enjoyed this book. Yes, I have some issues with the books; but, I still thought it was a good read. And, hopefully, the movie will be good as well.
one of the benefits of reading talkbacks- by samsquanch	Jan 7th, 2007 06:25:27 AM
is that you have an undiluted view of what some people really think about these topics. I'm sure it's no surprise to read such extreme points of view, we all know these ideas are out there, but I for one find it entertaining to read such brutal posts if for no other reason that it reminds me that folks still get raging angry over the silliest things. Thank you for providing a telescope that sees into your shallowest thoughts and feelings. Keep it coming.
Re: rblakeney, sepulchrave by Kizeesh	Jan 7th, 2007 10:45:07 AM
I agree Rblakeney, I was similarly generalising about the killing God concept. Civillity on a talkback would be nice, but I don't mind it getting hearted and dirty. However..... Sepulchrave seems to be missing a point. I wasn't arguing against your perception of God or your religious stance, I was arguing against you're stating that the book was about Vedanta vs Jehova and the fact that you were ignoring the actual plot of the book and instituting an incorrect allegorical template over the events. Instead you've gone completely off track wittering on about people stifling you're free expression to criticise religious beliefs. Also you are mistakenly assuming that because I argued with you that I believe in some form of mono-atheism. So get you're facts straight and drink less coffee........twat.
Sepulchrave by Leopold Scotch	Jan 7th, 2007 10:50:19 AM
I dunno if your comments are directed at me, but I think there's a big difference between the nature of a religion and the things done in its name. The atrocities committed in the NAME of democracy would, by such logic render it nearly as evil as any tyranny. The fact is that people through history have used the church as an excuse to maintain inequality. That makes them evil, not the church. Oh yeah, and calling all Christians butchers, psychopaths, schitozoids, tyrants and TWATS is the real "fucking ridiculous Nazi shit". I lean towards your (and Pullman's) model of God and consciousness too. But, on the other hand, I also like to visit Germany every few years (yes: even after WWII).
Sam Harris's "The End of Faith" by Sepulchrave	Jan 7th, 2007 11:34:37 AM
Summary from wikipedia (note connection between the Nazxi holocaust and Christian anti-semitism) Harris examines the nature of belief itself, challenging the notion that we can in any sense enjoy freedom of belief—for as he points out, "belief is a fount of action in potentia." Instead he posits that in order to be useful, beliefs must both logically cohere, and must be truly representative of the real world. Insofar as religious belief fails to ground itself in empirical evidence, Harris likens religion to a form of mental illness which, he says, "allows otherwise normal human beings to reap the fruits of madness and consider them holy." Harris follows this with a brief survey of Christianity down the ages, taking in the Inquisition and the historic persecution of witches and Jews. He contends that, far from being an aberration, the torture of heretics was simply a logical expression of Christian doctrine—one which, he says, was clearly justified by men such as Saint Augustine. Going still further, Harris sees the Holocaust as essentially drawing its inspiration from traditional Christian anti-Semitism. "Knowingly or not," he says, "the Nazis were agents of religion." Possibly the most controversial aspect of The End of Faith is an uncompromising assessment and criticism of Islam, which Harris describes as being a "cult of death." He infers a clear link between Islamic teaching and terrorist atrocities such as 9/11, something which he backs up with five pages of quotations from the Koran. He also presents some Pew Research data, showing that significant percentages of Muslims worldwide would justify suicide bombing as a legitimate tactic. In an attack on what he terms "leftist unreason," Harris criticises Noam Chomsky among others for, in his view, displaying an illogical willingness to lay the entire blame for such attitudes upon U.S. foreign policy.
Chomsky and others by samsquanch	Jan 7th, 2007 04:42:18 PM
Do more than "lay blame". The purpose of their work is to illuminate some of the more hidden causes to some of the most horrific effects of our time. To reduce such an objective to some kind of petty muck-throwing game is disingenuous and reveals a subjective agenda of your own. If your opinion is that All Religion Everywhere is at best a delusional distraction and at worst an excersise in psychotic death-worship, you might find that you spend more time talking to yourself than anyone else. Not even agnostics (which I consider myself to be, incidentally) share such an extreme view.
talking out of ass: emeraldboy by Gargolito	Jan 8th, 2007 01:34:03 AM
what chinese reverse translation of the book did you read??? there's no "golden ship" lyra did not live with her uncle at jordan college (he left her there --- and we later find out the his true relationship to her) and she did not find roger ... until after she got to the arctic... anyways anyone who read your "synopsys" shouldn't worry about spoilers since you are talking about some other book. where the hell are the daemons????
I would imagine that the daemons by Sepulchrave	Jan 8th, 2007 05:17:14 PM
will appear in post-production, being special effects; these are far-advance prepared shots.

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