Merry Fuckin' Christmas.

How can you people not be sick and tired of Hollywood telling you something you love is shit and going ahead and remaking it in their image? How can you defend Bay when he has admitted knowing nothing about Transformers and has made a film about a boy and his first car? This movie is not about the fucking Transformers it's named after, and that comes directly from the mouth of the goddam director.

Our passionate hatred of this film isn't just about the Transformers, it's also about how most of Hollywood thinks we the genre fans don't fucking matter at all. Thank god there's people like Sam Raimi and Peter Jackson out there who actually give 2 fucks about their source material.

You guys remember Raimi and Jackson right? Spidey and LOTR have made near $1 billion each, or how about the Harry Potter films also true to their source and also raking in near $1 billion each?

Transformers could have been a billion dollar movie, instead it will do Fantastic Four business, profitable but disappointing.

Eyeball, there was no mention of the Ark or Teletran 1 in the February script.

Somehow those filmmakers managed to make films that please both the original and new fans, people who have never read the books or comicbooks enjoyed those films. Billions of dollars later we're going to get another faithful Spidey flick, more faithful Potter films, and maybe even a faithful Hobbit film if we're lucky.

So I ask you all, are you honestly glad this movie was made in the image of Bay and not in the image of the original? This movie will probably be "alright" in the same way that the Prequels were "alright", and just like the Prequels people will forever wonder what the movie could have been like in other hands.

Sorry, S mart, I obviously misunderstood your take on all of this then.

I am utterly flabbergasted by some folks' emotional involvement with this flick. Transformers were cool when I was 10, but *even at that age* I recognized that it was a really, really bad show. Poorly written, poorly animated, and poorly executed. I know I'm reiterating what rj said, but it's worth repeating, I think.

I'm guessing Phartegodd walks into each new Uwe Boll film with this same sense of wonderment and awe, I mean there's no possible way to know if a Uwe Boll film will be good until you've seen it right?

And no, I do not believe the Transformers are even close to same level of importance and quality as LOTR, not even close.

http://s6.quicksharing.com/v/5 544137/primedirectivebman02_5B 1_5D.28.06.pdf

Do your Mommy and Daddy know you are on the internet, little stooopider?

Damn. Acronyms suck.

http://www.apple.com/trailers/ fox/fantasticfourriseofthesilv ersurfer/

And for fuck's sake, saying Transformers will be the number 2 movie, even if it's fucking great, is just retarded beyond belief. Next Summer belongs to Pirates 3, Spidey 3, and Potter 5, probably in that order. Transformers will be lost in the shuffle of all of the other movies out next summer and can't possibly touch any of those other franchises.

And for those who inevitably will respond with "you haven't seen it yet" my response will continue to be AvP and FF1 both looked just as bad as they turned out to be and we didn't even have a script for those.

Seriously, do you guys want a movie like Raiders of the Lost Ark or do you want another Tomb Raider II?

Stoopider, if Transformers was in fact about nothing but robots fighting then it would actually be better than what we're getting, because it would be about the robots. Michael Bay himself said this movie is about Sam and his first car, there's your A plot, the Transformers are all B plot. Why should knowing this fact compel me in any way to spend my money on this? Forget the designs, forget everything else, why should I spend my money on a Transformers movie that isn't even about the Transformers?

We can argue about the designs and the "talents" of Bay and Murphy, but you can't argue with Michael Bay's own words as well as the script that many of us have read. If you don't believe me then follow one of the links in this TB and read it for yourself. The Transformers are not the stars of this movie, Sam is. Peter Cullen should have been the lead in this movie, not Shia LeBeetlegeuse.

Anyway, this script absolutely reeks of hackery. The dialogue is embarrassing, and all of the "plot twists" that the humans go through are so incredibly contrived it defies belief. SPOILERS BEYOND

First, the eBay thing and the Xbox thing are so incredibly stupid, "Lookit us, we know alls about that stuff you wacky kids are into nowadays!" "More than meets the eye!" x 3??? The idiotic way all of the humans in the movie end up in the middle of the finale. How about the forced dialogue where we find out Qatar soldier #1 has just had a baby? WOOT, there's some Oscar worthy dialogue there, I was just waiting for some old guy to say "I'm too old for this shit!" and then die in the arms of someone who cries out "He was just two days away from retirement!!! WAAAAHHH!!!"

;)

And in what way is she more than meets the eye? Well it turns out she's not the stuck up prom queen after all, nope she's had some "trouble" in her past and she knows more about cars than Jiffy Lube. Translation - she got knocked up in the backseat of her Momma's Buick and she aborted the child with the oil dipstick. LMFAO

Wouldn't you kick your son's ass and/or kill him if you found out he was trying to sell family heirlooms on eBay? For fuck's sake, those objects would be priceless to the family, would they not? Selfish little fuck.

And another thing, Megs has been there in the presence of the AllSpark since Grandpa's expedition found him right? Why is it exactly that he didn't just grab the goddam thing and fly off to Cybertron? Nah, he's been dormant all those years because...because...because this script sucks ass and they never explain why he can all of a sudden wake up when he couldn't for nearly 100 years.

Dear Mr. Two Chins Tarantino Bitch Slapped, first Spielberg said it was about a boy and his car in an interview with Alex Kurtzman and then the sentiment was followed by Michael Bay in an interview with Quint here at AICN. Yack has already tackled this issue, and you have unequivocally been pwned like the bitch that you are.

As for your threat, you call me a coward but where's your e-mail address I'm supposed to be using?

Me, I'm not hard to find at all, with two videos on YouTube calling your movie shit I'm pretty sure you could have found me if only your Cro-Magnon brain worked as well as our human brains do.

Oh for the record, I'm self employed, why don't you e-mail me and let me know what I'm up to so I can fire myself.

Also for the record, I'm also a fulltime student, why don't you e-mail my school and let them know how naughty I am too. God this is funny, my hippie teachers would love to know some jackass in Hollywood is threatening me, they'd laugh their Woodstock loving asses off.

BTW, you also can't touch me for my videos on YouTube, parodies don't count you ignorant fucktard.

My god, just when it seemed stoopider had totally derailed this TB by being, well, stupid, along comes Phartpwnage to save the day. Pearl Harbor sucks, but we love you Phartpwned.

Let's see, YackBacker, PhateGod 1/2, superninja, and who else has been here in the thick of slagging this monstrosity with us? (it's almost 3 am here, so sorry if I forgot you, whoever you are) I'll even invite AllSeeingEye and my friend Mr.NiceGaius because we share passionate non-gay love for Battlestar Galactica.

Hey Donny, you can send the $500 to my PayPal using the same e-mail attached to my Transformers videos, if you're intelligent enough to find them that is.

See you all in the morning, keep the fire warm for me.

PharteCowardPrime: your ways are tired, your threats are impotent, and your point of view is meaningless. However, the fact that you appear to believe that one lone Talkbacker is operating under multiple handles to libel Murphy can only mean one thing:

You are zfisk/homewrecker. May your god have mercy on your empty soul.

Carry on TUADMAHS. Carry on.

I know that my optimism regarding this movie is really more of a fool's hope. But reading the masterful ownage displayed here seems to somehow make it all worthwhile!

And how is it that PharteCowardPrime is still posting?! Don't get me wrong, it makes for incredible entertainment. But he should be banned on general principle.

Yackbacker - my compliments to the chef. The ownage was delicious.

I give you credit for posting an e-mail addy though, maybe I'll drop you a line so we can exchange Christmas cards or something.

My guess is he's looking to send me a spam bomb like he did that jegoing (sp?) guy. Whatever, the only e-mail I ever give out on-line, the one that is attached to my TF videos, already gets bombarded with spam daily, and my spam filter works just fine. If Pharty really wanted to contact me he could just go to YouTube.

The only thing I am completely sure of is that I would never get that $500 even if I showed up on his doorstep with Michael Bay himself and had Mikey repeat the boy/car thing.

We know OP's arm morphs because of the leaked pics, I don't recall if it's in the script or not, but I think I do remember it being in there regarding BB.

I don't really get why they did it other than to make them even more complicated. It's no big deal I guess, but it definetely smacks of them trying to out-morph Venom next summer.

What I don't get is why Hasbro would allow them to make this change, it's not like they can reproduce the effect with their toys, they'll have to make replacement or add-on limbs which always drove me crazy with the original toys. Remember attaching Starscream's hands? How about the Constructicons, always hated that 1/3 of Devastator was made out of parts that didn't come from the vehicles.

Thanks to everyone who have made this a memorable year at AICN, it's been a lot of fun. Happy Holidays to you all, even you Pharty, you hack.

While I don't hate the Transformer script, it isn't that good. The humor is simple, the characters unbelievable and the Robots underutilized. I certainly wouldn't bank on this for two sequels.

And Pharty, no bet sabout this one, I dunno if it's fact or not. Unlike the other one, you owe me $500 you knob.

my main complaint with the TB discussions on the film is that its almost blind rage. aside fom the script and a few very vague teaser trailers, we really dont know what the characters are like. a movie like this can change a lot in a few months and even tho some of the stuff i saw in the nw trailer was directly liftwd from the script, i garantee you there have been heavy changes. a movie like this, no matter how much hardcore fans care about it, usually isnt given a glossy finish at the script stage. despite the love the series has, its still going to be treated with as much TLC as say, ID4 or Day After Tomorrow...both seen as big summer movies and not oscar caliber material. i just wish some of the ppl on here would have a bit more optimism. who knows? all of us might really enjoy this thing when all is said and done. im just trying to stay possitive. i certainly dont like being "shoveled shit" and actually enjoy a broad range of films, some not the best simply because i sometimes just want to zone out, so as a casual fan, im not taking a lot of the changes to heart but im just hoping for a fun movie. anyways, nothing personal to all the die-hard TF fans...just have some hope :)

i wouldnt bet against DM posting on these boards...seems like something he might be able to slap himself to while crying/laughing and cutting himself

Hey, I gotta comment on people hating on ROTJ earlier. Now I wholeheartedely agree that the Ewoks suck donkey balls and GL could have sold just as many fucking Wookie dolls as he did Ewoks, they were a horrible choice. That said, every scene on the Death Star II between Luke, Vader, and the Emperor are absolute cinematic gold, and these scenes alone make this movie more than worthwhile.

this is official now...all must refer to him as such. to anything he writes on here from this day forth, just reply with "I'm Sorry"

But the Death Star scenes really are among some of the greatest cinema of all time for me. There's so much depth to all that is happening in those scenes. The part I like the most is when Luke tosses his lightsabre and the Emperor says to him that only at the end did he truly understand. It took me years to figure what the Emperor meant, but once I did it was one of those moments where I actually learned something important about life that sticks with you.

And what did he learn exactly? It's so simple, and yet it eluded me for a long, long time. Quite simply, there's always a choice. The Dark Side controls no one, you can always choose. Simple, but very deep and rich....something completely lacking in Super Giant Robot Explosion Boom Boom.

and yeah ROTJ did have a great climax (kinda like a blow job from stooopider) thats what has made star wars stick with so many ppl i think...underneath all the FX and eye candy is a really strong msg. i hear that Mark Hammil was upset with ROTJ because he wanted Luke to actually turn to the dark side halfway thru before his redemtion. could have been interesting but i like how Luke just has a really strong will

Hey jackass stop threatening us, every time you do, more evidence piles up for our harrassment suit against you. AICN has YOUR IP address you cockgobbler, and I'm pretty sure they'd give it up without much of a fight in honor of a trolling bitch like yourself.

Of course, that's assuming you're not one of the AICN gang trolling in the TF TalkBacks just for laughs. I've been the board troll myself once or twice, the guy who "stirred up conversation" per the orders of the board admin.

Also, what makes you think I need "Aintitshit" or anyone else to protect me? Go ahead and track down my IP address and come on over to my house and threaten me to my face. Oh, my wife's a cop, so when you come over here and start shit with me and I proceed to kick your ass they'll take you to jail, not me.

Fuck that, I'm pretty sure my wife could get your IP addy in a matter of minutes if I asked her, in fact you gave out your e-mail address here, your IP address is mine bitch. Have a nice day douchebag.

According to the movies there is a light side and a dark side to the Force. Seems to me that in order to bring "balance" to the Force there needs to be an equal amount of both light and dark Jedi. Therefore, and I know GL did not intend it this way, when the entire Jedi Order were slain and all that was left were 2 Jedi and 2 Sith did we not have balance?

Since this was not how it was portrayed in the movies I have to ask what a balanced Force is supposed to look like according to GL, does anyone know?

Apparantly even Don is tired of this guy.

In short, they are VERY cool looking things, but that doesn't make them Transformers in the same way that the transforming robots/vehicles in Macross are not Transformers.

No one will ever convince me that the G1 designs updated to work in full 3D wouldn't have worked for this film. By adding the proper joints to the 3D models, setting up proper links in the joints (IK chains), with proper constraints so the parts don't clip through each other, they could have given us some Transformers we can recognize.

What does it say about this movie that there is only ONE robot that is immediately recognizable?

And yet, it's still the script that really kills it for me. Visually, Wrath of Kahn is completely different from TOS, but that is still the best Star Trek I've ever seen.

Consider this: there is legitimate bad blood between AICN and DM. Now, unless someone at AICN is playing a joke (which doesn't make a lot of sense...), there is something else going on and it has become increasingly volatile and sketchy. I say, take it to the Mods.

That's my 2 cents. Best of luck.

If you're talking the Extended Edition. I don't even remember the differences, but the second I watched the EE for Two Towers, I knew I would not keep the regular editions. And sure enough, I didn't.

FOTR EE was a little disappointing, I felt the only thing it improved was the Boromir v Orcs scene. Granted, worth the price for just that, but still, I expected more from it.

ROTK EE is good because they added Saruman back in ... but at the same time, they didn't do anything to improve Denethor (DAMN YOU, PETER JACKSON!). And of course, ROTK still annoys me for the "No Man May Hinder/Kill Me" change. DAMN YOU PETER JACKSON!

Granted, still love ROTK ... but DAMN YOU PETER JACKSON!

2) Ok, the Frodo-on-an-Eagle thing has to stop. I've seen it for decades, and it's the stupidest idea possible. Frodo would be too vulnerable. One, he's in the air and obvious. Two, Sauron has access to flying steeds. Three, the Cracks of Doom are not necessarily accessible from the top of Mt. Doom. They are inside, down a tunnel; dropping the Ring into the volcano from above in no way guarantees the Ring finds its way into the Cracks.

The situation you describe would make it very obvious to Sauron what was happening. Gandalf can not stand against the combined power of the Nazgul, and no force in the 3rd Age could assault Mordor successfully. Steath and secrecy was the only viable option.

1) There's a man called Baggins who lives in the Shire who has Gollum's ring. Or a man called Shire who lives in a land called Baggins. He sends the Nazgul to investigate.

2) The Nazgul discover the Ringbearer, but they lose him at the entrance to Rivendell.

3) Saruman reports to him that there's a group heading South (the Nazgul are out of commission at this point, so Sauron's only info is via Saruman)

4) Sauron makes contact with the Ringbearer at the falls of Rauros ... which is the entrance to Gondor. And he likely knows that the Heir of Elendil is with him (via Saruman).

5) Sauron and Saruman lose track of the Ring after the Breaking of the Fellowship and then the defeat of the Uruk-Hai by the Riders of Rohan. Wormtongue would've told Saruman that the Heir of Elendil was present with Gandalf in Rohan ... and perhaps he knew that "no one survived" the attack by the Riders ... but there is no trace of Hobbits to be found. If a Hobbit still has the Ring, it is lost. The other alternative is that Aragorn or Gandalf has it.

6) Pippin looks into the palantir at Orthanc, and is met by Sauron. Sauron probably thinks Saruman has betrayed him and sends a Nazgul(?) to investigate. The Nazgul will discover that Orthanc has obviously been attacked, and there will be no sign of Hobbits or Aragorn present.

7) Aragorn challenges Sauron and *wrests control of the palantir from him*. The same palantir that he quite recently saw a Hobbit look into. Putting 2+2 together ... Sauron launches an attack on Minas Tirith.

8) The attack on Minas Tirith fails, and an army from there approaches. This latter part is a calculated move by Gandalf, as a way of encouraging Sauron in thinking Aragorn has the Ring.

9) Frodo puts the Ring on at the Cracks of Doom, and what follows is the best paragraph in the entire book.

How's that?

I will post "the best paragraph in the entire book" when I get home in 10 minutes.

The word he did like was "applicability".

Besides the Eagles do plenty in the Hobbit that aren't message related. And in fact in LotR they mostly do rescuing. Of course, the fact that the Eagles are the Children of Manwe may have something to do with that.

Sauron and the Balrog are also both Aesir, btw.

I'll be waiting to rent it on DVD.

From all his policies and webs of fear and treachery, from all his strategems and wars his mind shook free; and throughout his realm a tremor ran, his slaves quailed, and his armies halted, and his captains suddenly steerless, bereft of will, wavered and despaired. For they were forgotten. The whole mind and purpose of the Power that wielded them was now bent with overwhelming force upon the Mountain. At his summons, wheeling with a rending cry, in a last desperate race there flew, faster than the winds, the Nazgul, the Ringwraiths, and with a storm of wings they hurtled southwards to Mount Doom.

Tolkien was consciously trying to create this with his works. He even made the comment that we're in the 6th or 7th age (whereas the bulk of LotR is the 3rd age) -- facetiously, of course. He was never insane enough to believe that the stories he was writing were the originals, but at the same time, he was trying to create stories that *could* have existed before all those we know.

One more thing about this: the temptation of Adam & Eve and the casting out from the Garden of Eden happens offscreen in the Silmarillion.

Finally, on Jesus. Iluvatar (ie God) intervenes only three times in the history of the world. First, when he removes Valinor from Ea (essentially, the 2-dimensional world becomes 3-dimensional, for sailing West -- unless you know the path through the stars -- does not reach Valinor anymore). Second, he restores Gandalf to life after his death by the Balrog.

And third, he sends Jesus to die on the Cross.

And no, I'm not kidding.

In all seriousness, Tolkien acknowledged the influence of the earlier works (although he says the Ring should not draw comparisons to the Ring Cycle opera-tized by Wagner (sorry, can't spell Nibel--). The Kalavela was a major influence, of course. But he does plenty of creation on his own. If you read through the original drafts of what he was trying to right, it's very obvious how his mind kept molding the work to his own design.

I just wish he had gone back and fixed the first part.

If a harrassment lawsuit can be brought, and this jackass works for any company linked to this movie, then his company and even Paramount pictures could potentially be named in the lawsuit.

So let's talk serious for a moment Pharty, and I'm going to drop all pretense and bullshit and just talk reality. Thumping your chest on the internet and saying "my dick is bigger than yours" is not illegal and violates no laws, but once that thumping turns into threats, then a line has been crossed, and you've crossed that line. Internet bitching and bluster should stay on the internet, but once it moves off the internet and into people's real lives then it becomes a whole different animal. You've been acting like the big man on campus and I am taking you seriously.

I am fully aware that this may all be some stupid internet prank gone awry, and frankly it's a pretty good one if it is, but threatening to take this to the next level and interfering with people's real lives is simply something that cannot be tolerated.

And since I promised to drop all pretense and bullshit I'm going to admit I lied about something. My wife is not a cop, that was just me thumping my own chest, in reality she is applying to become a cop though, and that's where that particular idea came from.

Make no mistake about something, I really did consult with a lawyer today, and while harrassment is not his area of expertise, he's a copyright lawyer, he agreed that threats, both actual or implied, are a component of harrassment lawsuits.

The ball is officially in your court now Pharty, do you think we can dispense with this bullshit, because I'd be happy to. I'm the least litigious person on the planet and want nothing to do with a lawsuit, but I cannot stand by while you threaten the livelihood of myself and others here.

I'm finally getting a PS2, mainly for Guitar Hero, Amplitude, Gitaroo Man, and Beatmania (um, I like Rhythm games, mmkay?) ... plus Shadows of the Colossus (as previously mentioned), and Devil May Cry (all 3 available in a nice cheap 'anniversary' package). I think there are enough exclusive games available to make it a worthwhile investment, and by the time I get tired of those games (and the Xbox games I still haven't played), PS3 and X360 should be a lot cheaper. Second verse, same as the first.

Thanks to John Hodgman for using the word Aesir in reference to Ragnarok in his book 'The Areas of my Expertise' for providing the impetus for me to correct my earlier mythological folly.

Except for the giant flippin' plothole they threw in at the end. Aarrgghh.

We love it. I think it's the best pic and can't beat the price. Have had it a year and no problems. Just wish there were more HD channels on my cable. But I've become quite the Discovery Channel junkie.

*The IEAE states simply that for everyone who agrees with you on something, you believe 10^x people in the world agree with you. Thus if you find four people in agreement with a forum post, you immediately assume 10,000 (10^4) people in the world agree with you. If you find 9, that means you assume a billion people do.

"Y ou know at the end of the day / action is Bay!"

AICN has had some memorable Trolls in its time. However, you are amongst some of the worst I've seen. What you are doing is blatantly obvious (i.e. Attention Whore) and, ironically, it's been done better. Hell, even PharteGodd in his prime was more effective than you. And that's saying something!

So, I can imagine how frustrating it must be for you being stuck in the basement, pounding your pudd and your keyboard, wondering when someone will finally acknowledge your pathetic, impotent pleas for attention and recognition. And I'm sure the condition of impotence is probably contributing to your misplaced, misguided, and misfired attempts at what you think will constitute "pwnage".

But since I'm giving you a sliver of my attention, I'll just say this:

Shut The Fuck Up. If you've got something constructive to say, then say it. Get to the point. Otherwise, your constant spamming of the TBs is just wasting AICN's bandwidth. Do. Not. Debate. Me. On. This.

OK, pachenko? OK.

Finis.