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Dafoe reteams with Paul Schrader for his Holocaust drama ADAM RESURRECTED!!!

PRIMERO! by Sleeperkid	Dec 18th, 2006 05:04:01 AM
That means first in Español, bitches.
This should be titled Jerry Resurrected. by JackPumpkinhead	Dec 18th, 2006 06:09:29 AM
And if it's successful, the fatso will probably want to cash in too - so he may dig up his great clown picture from that locked vault and release it! Come, Helmut Doork!
'The Pied Piper of Auschwitz' by Thomas Cromwell	Dec 18th, 2006 06:22:17 AM
This will win a barnful of Oscars.
It's Dafoe by Zorak5	Dec 18th, 2006 06:59:09 AM
And anything he does is always interesting, especially a significant role like this. Throw Jeff Goldblum in and you've got yourself a project to watch.
The Day the Clown Cried by triplefive	Dec 18th, 2006 07:00:29 AM
with all the remakes out there, just keep the original better title and call it a remake.
The Day the Clown Cried by Nice Marmot	Dec 18th, 2006 07:24:44 AM
So Jerry's film NEVER leaked out? Nobody saw it? I've been fascinated with this thing everr since they talked about it on Howard Stern a while back. I can't believe it was ever made. Had it been released it would have been one of the most contraversial films of all time. This new one is coming way too late.
Where does Schrader get funding? by Lance Rock	Dec 18th, 2006 07:37:12 AM
Has any Paul Schrader film ever made money? I liked Auto Focus just fine, but damn, his films aren't exactly crowd pleasers. This new one doesn't exactly sound like a laff riot. It must be European backing.
Enough of the Holocaust Movies! by DarfurOnTheRocks	Dec 18th, 2006 08:20:20 AM
I don't think that this is about awareness anymore. I feel that the Holocaust is being used by filmmakers to make money. Not true? Then I challange all of these individuals to donate ALL of the movies profits to charity.
didn't they already make this? by Holodigm	Dec 18th, 2006 08:35:52 AM
the grey zone?
Anyone else remember the Golden Turkey Awards book? by Doctor_Sin	Dec 18th, 2006 09:08:28 AM
From the 70s? Some of us have been pining away for the Jerry Lewis film (which sounds like utter crap) since then. This sounds ok - although seeing Goldblum as a clown may traumatize me.
another holocaust drama?? by Windowlicker74	Dec 18th, 2006 09:36:07 AM
just what the world needs
so bringingsexyback... by m2298	Dec 18th, 2006 09:51:57 AM
Only fictionalized Holocaust films generate money for the Zionists? There must be a cash register somewhere separates the box office grosses and sends grosses from films like SCHINDLER'S LIST (based on a work of historical fiction by Thomas Keneally, BTW) to one place and those on productions to ADAM RESURRECTED to AIPAC and the JNF.
Golden Turkey Awards book...Michael Medved SUCKS!!!! by CarmillaVonDoom	Dec 18th, 2006 10:14:15 AM
F* Michael Medved and his scaredy cat BS. Wish he would crawl under a rock somewhere and starve to death...and take that numbskull Jonah Goldberg with him as well. :^)
sounds like a comedy to me by Jonesey1111	Dec 18th, 2006 11:04:44 AM
Adam Resurrected staring Steve Carell!
Passion=Holocaust??? by S-Mart shopper	Dec 18th, 2006 12:03:57 PM
Sorry, BSB, but I don't see how the execution of one person is equated with the extermination of milllions. If you're making that statement in regards to the movies made about said subjects then that is completely different. Speaking of Mel and Jews, the sole and undisputed blame for ALL war type shennanigans, since man could throw a punch, is organized (and unorganized for that matter) religion. Let the games begin...
How is this better than "The Day The Clown Cried"??? by Proman1984	Dec 18th, 2006 12:04:13 PM
If that project was in bad taste than surely this one must be too.
Stalin killed a hell of a lot more people than Hitler by CTU Mole	Dec 18th, 2006 12:06:27 PM
but Hollywood isn't run by Russians.
That Borat asshole needs cock punched! by S-Mart shopper	Dec 18th, 2006 12:20:48 PM
I have laughed at some pretty stupid stuff in my time and have found some questionable acts amusing but this assclown needs, what passes for his testicles, kicked up to his tonsils.
Bringingsexyback by m2298	Dec 18th, 2006 12:31:50 PM
"Sure, AIPAC, ADL, JDL and all the Zionist orgs get kickbacks and royalties from these movies." Care to specifically elaborate how? Using Holocaust awareness as a way of fundraising is not the same as "kickbacks and royalties".
EvilWiz by S-Mart shopper	Dec 18th, 2006 12:40:57 PM
I'd read up on neo-cons and Kissinger if I weren't in the middle of reading If Chins Could Kill. Best Goldblum character=Mr.Frost
"It is rather interesting that Sacha Baron Cohen... by DocPazuzu	Dec 18th, 2006 12:42:09 PM
... himself a son of a Jewish immigrant to Great Britain, invested so much energy portraying sat through it. such a low image of Western Europe's newcomers." ...... Well, EvilWizardGlick, although it may be debatable as to whether, or indeed to what extent, Borat is funny, but there is no question that you are the dumbest guy who ever watched the film.
"It is rather interesting that Sacha Baron Cohen... by DocPazuzu	Dec 18th, 2006 12:43:21 PM
... himself a son of a Jewish immigrant to Great Britain, invested so much energy portraying such a low image of Western Europe's newcomers." ...... Well, EvilWizardGlick, although it may be debatable as to whether, or indeed to what extent, Borat is funny, but there is no question that you are the dumbest guy who ever watched the film.
FINALLY, a movie about the HOLOCAUST!!! by Daddylonghead	Dec 18th, 2006 12:45:11 PM
Thank you Hollywood for FINALLY producing a film concerning this under-emphasized and obscure event. At last, the Holocaust gets some coverage! Now if someone would just write a book about it...
AIPAC, ADL et al do not represent Jews...but Israel by DarfurOnTheRocks	Dec 18th, 2006 12:50:19 PM
I think that is the point that he is making. Certain groups have hijacked and appropriated the genocide of European Jews for their own political support of the STATE of Israel. Therefore, a disturbing trend follows that if you do not support Israel and are critical of Zionism you are an anti-semite (which is false). The holocaust was tragic, however, we need more awareness for the millions of other individuals that perished during WWII, including the Armenian Genocide. Every life is precious, and we have to stop those that make money from the tragedies of others.
"including the Armenian Genocide" by DocPazuzu	Dec 18th, 2006 12:55:32 PM
I think you'll find that the Armenian genocide took place during WWI.
DarfurOnTheRocks by DocPazuzu	Dec 18th, 2006 01:02:03 PM
There's another disturbing trend which you neglected to mention, namely that many advocates of Israel's destruction are trying to equate the country's very existence with "Holocaust hustling", which works in two ways: 1) If you support Israel, you automatically support using the Holocaust for financial gain, and 2) Mentioning the Holocuast in traditional terms means you automatically support all of Israel's policies.
You know what else wasn't mentioned by S-Mart shopper	Dec 18th, 2006 01:29:36 PM
If Dafoe can pull off a cross dressing homo fed(BoondockSaints)and still be a badass then he can play a clown punching Nazi.
DocPazuzu by DarfurOnTheRocks	Dec 18th, 2006 01:41:01 PM
Yep you are right. But what is disturbing is that in the Global Anti-Semitism Review Act of 2004, the US defines anti-Semitism as criticism of the State of Israel. Also, the Holocaust is the ONLY subject which has been deemed outside the realm of academic study. This is incredible. Just imagine if Einstien was banned from studying gravity just because Newton figured everything out already! But you are right the holocaust has been used by many parties for their own subjective ideologies.
bringingsexyback by m2298	Dec 18th, 2006 03:08:06 PM
I didn't know that David Duke was a Holocaust scholar. There must be some 'hidden facts' we all don't know about. And what does Sacha Baron Cohen have to to do with the so-called 'Holocaust Industry'other than his being Jewish? Is he a Mossad agent collecting BORAT BO receipts for the ADL?
bringingsexyback by m2298	Dec 18th, 2006 03:48:47 PM
I've been posting on AICN since 1998 and have contributed to various topics in posts of varying length, although not as frequently as many others. I mentioned David Duke, as he seems to be accepted as a "scholar" by the Iranian gentlemen who have convened the conference currently taking place. Where have you heard that Sacha Baron Cohen is a Zionist? And not that it matters, but his character is supposed to be a Kazakh, not a gypsy.
holocaust movie about gays by m2298	Dec 18th, 2006 03:51:40 PM
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt01 18698/ -- BENT (1997)
Neturei Karta by m2298	Dec 18th, 2006 04:09:42 PM
That Neturei Karta attended the same conference as Duke, Faurisson, and others is more of a comment on their irrationality than anything else (they also appeared before Holocaust denier Willis Carto in 2002). My reason for mentioning Cohen was in response to your "Only in this fucked-up world would Borat, a movie made by a Jew, be a hit in Germany and fan the flames of racism towards gypsies and other Eastern Europeans. This, among others, is the reason why people are just plain tired of the Holocaust Industry." I'm not particularly happy about Cohen's humor either, but he has nothing to do with profiting off Jewish suffering during the Holocaust.
S mart shopper - Great call by Almost_Human	Dec 18th, 2006 04:33:54 PM
on Mr. Frost. My FAVORITE Goldblum performance hands down. Just fucking creepy. Dafoe and Schrader have GREAT history - anyone remember Light Sleeper? A coked out tale of internal demons and the seduction of drugs. Dana Delany was even good in it and it has a funny cameo of a pre-breakout David Spade as a desperate customer. If you have not seen Light Sleeper, it is worth a viewing IMOHO. One of Schrader's best. On the subject of Israeli cabals? I'd add my say but it looks like EWG, BSB and DocP have the salient points covered as usual.
Nazis vs Clowns = To Be Or Not To Be by Doctor_Sin	Dec 18th, 2006 04:41:33 PM
Mel Brooks as Hitler: "Heil myself." Gold. "Are you ze one that makes ze joke about me becoming a pickle?!?!?" Sasha Cohen is a pricktastic cocksmoker of the highest order.
names please by m2298	Dec 18th, 2006 04:45:03 PM
As far as I know, the only reputable scholar who arrives at a variant figure from the standard six million is Raul Hilberg. Iny any case, he certainly doesn't deny that millions were murdered. Perhaps you can inform me of some others. And as for Neturei Karta, any Jew who shares a platform with Duke and Faurisson is irrational, to put it lightly. What Sacha Cohen has to do with Foxman and dershowitz is beyond me.
The Day the Clown Cried tidbits by Doctor_Sin	Dec 18th, 2006 05:30:38 PM
http://www.subcin.com/clowncri ed.html - Feed your hunger for Jew clowns in Nazi Germany.
2 Cents by Mr. Nice Gaius	Dec 18th, 2006 05:56:02 PM
Regarding the Neturei Karta and this quote: "(they) have debunked the actual numbers of Jewish victims...". No, they have not. In fact, their main beef with Zionism is based more on religious idealism than anything else. They look upon the state of Israel as a sin before God. The Neturei Karta are an incredibly small group that seem to only gain favor or credibility when they are used by those who realize their political benefit (i.e. Ahmadinejad, Arafat, Farrakhan, etc.). So, bringing up their attendance at the Holocaust Conference in Tehran is especially "specious", too. They are a token voice whored out to a conference that has little credibility beyond the right of free speech and assembly. The main stab of the Holocaust debate seems to be: did it actually happen. Once this is conceded (sometimes reluctantly by those who still wish it to be a myth), it then becomes a much more subversive and sinister proposition: the actual number of Jews killed was inflated for an overall nefarious Zionist cause. (Now it begins to sound like Mel Gibson's "numbers game", doesn't it?) Well, when you've got scholars who have devoted their entire lives to the Holocaust saying that the figures themselves may actually fall short of the true number lost (this includes victims of ALL kinds), then something is amiss. Especially when lovely lads like Adolf Eichmann (as a matter of record) telegraph their Fuhrer to let him know that 4 camps managed to extinguish 1,274,166 Jews in the year of 1942 alone. Folks can inadvertently/subconsciously defend Holocaust Denial and the likes of David Duke and Ahmadinejad all they want. But I find that manner of thinking to be most disturbing.
Holocaust Referen Dumb by crimson executioner	Dec 18th, 2006 06:00:35 PM
Jeez Louise! You guys need to take a deep breath. You know why people make holocaust movies? Not because if the machinations of some sinister 'holocaust industry' but because it's a time and place filled with drama, suspense, tragedy, and (one of CALVINIST PROTESTANT filmmaker Paul Schrader's favorite topics) agonizing moral dilemmas. That any holocaust movie is going to cause a debate about the history of zionism (and how this movie must be part of a 60-year in the making plot) is just plain headache inducing. You want to see an Armenian Holocaust movie? Try Ararat, or Screamers for starters. Somehow the omnipotent zionists screwed up and allowed those movies out to steal their thunder. Holocaust denial is properly scoffed at like moon landing denial and flat earth theories, though if Iran wants to host a seminar 'investigating' those crackpot ideas, noone's stopping them. A lot of thing wrong with the nazis but they were great on documentation. Which isn't to say I wouldn't rather see Jerry Lewis' legendary trainwreck than what will probably prove to be a well-intentioned, perfectly competent, if depressing slog.
How About it? by crimson executioner	Dec 18th, 2006 07:22:48 PM
The Hollywood propaganda machine? You mean the international entertainment corporations who answer to stockholders and exist to create profitable content? Obviously they've decided to forego making money for a few years in order to support their overlords in Washington DC and Israel by making a few arthouse Holocaust movies (that won't come out for a year or 3.)
EvilWizardGlick by Mr. Nice Gaius	Dec 18th, 2006 07:29:14 PM
I believe my post, in essence, covered the idea contained in your first sentence. But I've heard the misquote/translation defense before and I don't always buy it. His statements are sometimes translated and delivered by his own staff. (Not to mention his Mike Wallace/60 Minutes interview.) The excuse of hiding inflammatory rhetoric under the claim that the West isn't capable of translating it properly (because there are 50 different variants on the word "destroyed" or some shit), doesn't hold water. And yes, Juan Cole is always brought up in these discussions. But I've even read corrections or alternate takes on his translations. It becomes a game of cultural/political semantics. So, there you go. I certainly wasn't lumping "all people who have questions about the Holocaust" together. (Yet it's interesting you brought 911 into this - many of the 911 Truthers do question and doubt the Holocaust.) I'm all for people asking questions. Lord knows there is an incredible amount of legitimate information, records and research out there. However, it's interesting which answers they choose to come up with. Thanks for your response, EWG. Cheers.
Why is the 6 Million Number etched in stone? by DarfurOnTheRocks	Dec 18th, 2006 08:16:19 PM
That is what I mean when I say that academia has stopped historical study of the holocaust. I think that the number very well could be 6 million. However, there is no list of 6 million names. Therefore, it could be 7 million, or dare I say it less. Now suppose I said that 4 million Jews died in WWII. I would be labeled a Holocaust denier and an anti-semite. But the question is that even if I believed that, isn't 4 MILLION a massive amount. Like I said earlier every single life is precious. If one Jew had died, instead of 6 million it would be a heinous crime.
"many 911 Truthers do doubt the Holocaust" by Daddylonghead	Dec 18th, 2006 08:25:07 PM
(above paraphrased 'cause of subject-line length limitations) Well, I don't doubt the Holocaust... as an Armenian I know something about denial of genocide... but this kind of thing, the 'bad allies' problem, is a difficulty that afflicts discussion of many issues, including those surrounding Israel, as seen in this Talkback: Extremists are slavering on both sides, making rational argument difficult. Oh, you disapprove of Israeli apartheid & slaughtering Lebanese civilians? I also disapprove... AND DID YOU KNOW ARIEL SHARON EATS CHRISTIAN BABIES?!?!?!? Or: Oh, you feel the Holocaust was truly horrific and killed 6 million Jewish people? I agree, and ANYONE WHO CRITICIZES ANY ISRAELI GOVERNMENT POLICY CLEARLY WANTS TO KILL 6 MILLION MORE!!!!!
Wow by Ralije	Dec 18th, 2006 08:43:05 PM
The amount of strawmen being knocked down is staggering. I bet it feels good to talk about how these mythical and nefarious Zionists are exploiting the Holocaust and then saying that they're wrong. I bet it must make you feel like a big man. The Holocaust happened. It fucking sucked. There are tons of stories that can be told from that time, though, and I agree that we should never forget. I agree so much so that I think that by allowing Darfur and other bullshit events like that continue is a crime. Israel has done many things I disagree with. They've also done a lot of great things, though, like saving hundreds of thousands of Ethiopian Jews back in the 1980's. I mostly take issue with how Israel is seen as being the only nation fucking over the Palestinians. It isn't like Kuwait kicked out 400,000 or that Jordan and Syria and Egypt have perpetuated refugee camps instead of giving these people a chance at life. Or it isn't like the Saudis fund terrorists that'll only perpetuate conflict instead of investing in education and healthcare. It isn't like Israel is the only state to fuck over the Palestinians. Hell, I find it hard to swallow criticism about Israel when we give just as much support to nations in that region that still stone women for getting raped and other horrible things against women. It doesn't mean I think Israel has been great, far from it, but Israel isn't the only nation to fuck over the Palestinians. Hopefully the Palestinians will get a viable state soon but I'd really like to see Jordan and Lebanon help out there and not just count on Israel to cede them all the land. Also, if the Zionists really wanted to subvert the world and to create more support for Israel they'd just make movies about the massive amounts of Jews that were dispelled from the Middle East after Israel was formed. We talk a lot about the Palestinian Right of Return, and in many cases I think this is totally a valid conversation to have, but we never talk about the Jewish Right of Return to lands they were kicked off of.
Fuck by Ralije	Dec 18th, 2006 08:44:08 PM
I wish I knew I had to put in there. I'm sorry for the shitty formatting. Fuck me.
Good Points Ralije by DarfurOnTheRocks	Dec 18th, 2006 08:59:50 PM
...That is why many educated individuals find it sad when the US and Britain talk about the mindless brutality and clan warfare in the Mid-East and the Africas. It is sad because Britain was responsible for carving up Palestine and artibrarily redrawing geopolitical landscape without compunction. This is the British that divided India/Africa et al, turning neighbour into enemy so that they may rule. The sad thing is that this shit is still going on. Case in point, Iraq. First the US supported Saddam. Then in the late 90's they aid the Kurds, hoping that they would topple Saddam. Then after that did not work because the CIA bailed on them, they moved to the Shites. Well after invading the country and deposing of the tyrant Saddam, the Shites thanked the US and then promptedly told them to leave. The US did not like that response and then curried favor of the Sunnis. Hence the mess that we have. It is easy to talk about the savagery of the Mid-east. But the US cannot divorce themselves from the mess that THEY created. I just wish that the little people, us, the civilians, even the troops that take orders, would be spared from the designs of the power hungry.
I just wanna hear a German yell, "Schuuuultz!!!" by Doctor_Sin	Dec 18th, 2006 09:24:29 PM
Or else, it's a mockery of WWII films.
Hanna Barbera died by kuguy3000	Dec 18th, 2006 10:16:36 PM
Just saying http://popzart.com/viewtopic.p hp?topic=261
This talkback makes me want... by chaplinatemyshoe	Dec 19th, 2006 12:25:37 AM
to go back and watch The Yakuza Papers again...
Well, brokedick... by DocPazuzu	Dec 19th, 2006 12:52:30 AM
...it's nice to see that with each new political talkback you revert more and more to your earlier incarnation with an identical Third Positionist amalgamation of ideas and catchphrases, not least of all promoting the ideas of nutty right-wing religious extremists like the Neturei Karta -- a loony minority you hold up as the epitome or rationality and the true voice of Jews. That's tantamount to referring to the infamous rallies co-organized by both the KKK and the Nation of Islam and promoting the actions of the latter group as being the one true voice of African Americans. If you had the courage of your convictions, you'd come right out and say what you believe the so-called "hidden truths" are in Holocaust history rather than indulge in the "nudge-nudge, wink-wink" routine which, granted, may incite a giggle or two from your 3P buddies, but makes for chickenshit debate.
that should read... by DocPazuzu	Dec 19th, 2006 12:53:39 AM
"the epitome OF rationality."
DocPaz by DarfurOnTheRocks	Dec 19th, 2006 10:21:41 AM
Yeah, I think that your view of Neturei Karta may be slightly out of touch with rationality. Perhaps you can state what your opinions are concerning the mass murder of Palestinians in Israel by the IDF? I am just wondering because Jews who don't like what is going on seem to be labelled as wackos.
Neturei Karta... by m2298	Dec 19th, 2006 11:07:05 AM
...are great humanitarians. That's why they have cozied up to exemplars of toleration and human rights such as Hamas, Hezbollah, Bashir al-Assad, Farrakhan, and Iran, which masterminded the 1994 bombing of a Jewish Center in Buenos Aires that left 100 dead (http://tinyurl.com/yehdmy) as well as Holocaust deniers like Willis Carto. Even anti-Zionist religious Jews treat Neturei Karta like the plague these days, and they don't need DocPazazu to tell them to either.
slander? by m2298	Dec 19th, 2006 11:38:44 AM
Everything I wrote about them is taken from their own website.
.Double Standards concerning Neturei Karta... by DarfurOnTheRocks	Dec 19th, 2006 11:39:18 AM
...And yet you remain silent to those who support Ariel Sharon who was responsible for a whole slew of Massacres? Perhaps you are familiar with his body of work which includes the Sabra-Shatila massacre which was on his watch? Yet it seems that all that we hear is those terrible folks such as Hamas who are fighting for Palestinians, and Hezbollah who are fighting for Lebanon, which was invaded because of 3 soldiers who were captured in LEBANON?!! I am not saying that these groups' hands are clean. However, to absolve the IDF and Sharon for their crimes, while piling on Neturei Karta is not good cricket. Oh BTW Nobel Peace Prize winner Arch Bishop Desmond Tutu was just prevented from investigating the killing of 19 civilians in Beit Hanoun. He was sanctioned by the UN nonetheless... I guess that he is an evil evil man also now...
highway to hell by m2298	Dec 19th, 2006 12:21:55 PM
http://tinyurl.com/yh76mf http://tinyurl.com/yzrwwm http://tinyurl.com/5qpqs http://tinyurl.com/ylbw5u
Good Lord! What horrendous reading! by Mr. Nice Gaius	Dec 19th, 2006 12:30:34 PM
You know, Ralije was a little pre-emptive in his assertion that "straw-men" were being batted around here. But now I see that it has come to full fruition much in the same manner as described by Daddylonghead. It's ricockulous.
LOL by DarfurOnTheRocks	Dec 19th, 2006 01:28:29 PM
....All that I know is that Marion Cobretti would find a way to bring ALL the evil doers to justice.
All good things come to an end, BSB. by Mr. Nice Gaius	Dec 19th, 2006 01:54:05 PM
And it will still be ricockulous. So, here's to hoping that Robert Evans doesn't have a polaroid of your collective mothers.
Well, brokedick... by DocPazuzu	Dec 19th, 2006 02:01:16 PM
...you certainly don't disappoint. I would very much like for you to show me exactly where I compared the Neturei Karta loonies to the KKK. What I did compare them to is the Nation of Islam who shared a forum with the KKK -- people who wouldn't mind killing American blacks -- merely because they share the common goal of segregation. The Neturei Karta similarly shared a forum with people who wouldn't mind seeing Jews dead (including former KKK hotshot David Duke) merely because they share the common goal of Israel's destruction. Which brings us to you, brokedick. Your defending of the Neturei Karta ("See? Jews also want Israel gone!") is the same as a redneck racist defending the Nation of Islam ("See? Blacks also want segregation!"). But then again, you already knew all too well that this was the nature of my comparison. You simply misread it on purpose so that you could have an excuse to say "how dare you" (another carryover from your brokebackcowboy phase) and call me a Nazi. Not surprising considering your hardcore 3P beliefs.
sorry, no Rambo by m2298	Dec 19th, 2006 02:06:34 PM
http://tinyurl.com/uym96
As for me being your bitch... by DocPazuzu	Dec 19th, 2006 02:09:28 PM
...I think you've mistakenly assumed you were me. An honest mistake considering that I (and YackBacker, Mr. Nice Gaius and others) have done nothing but own you on a regular basis since you first showed up on a variety of topics including Israel, 9/11, the Iraqi Kurds, what you laughably referred to as the Jordanian "oil industry", as well as the meaning of the word "ream". In fact, the only two talkbackers I've bitched more than you are your Third Positionista cohorts GingerTwit, who is M.I.A., and zfisk/homewrecker, who either went back onto his medication or offed himself. Oh, and thanks for proving my point by not responding to my question about the "hidden truth" of the Holocaust.
DarfurOnTheRocks by DocPazuzu	Dec 19th, 2006 02:17:42 PM
Brokedick was right about one thing: yours is an interesting question, but not for the reasons he's implying. What's interesting about it is that it exposes your narrow-minded thinking since you apparently assume that supporting Israel's right to exist is the equivalent of supporting all of their policies, which I emphatically do not. I fully support the establishment of a Palestinian state in Gaza and the West Bank and think the settlers should be kicked off that land. While I do support Israel's right to retaliate against Hezbollah in Lebanon, I deplore and condemn both the extent of the damage inflicted upon Lebanon and the manner with which that war was fought. In short, I support the right of both countries to exist and to be able to defend themselves. A more interesting question is if brokedick supports the right of Israel to exist. Actually, I already know the answer to that question as he's answered it many times before. He's claimed to support Israel's existence, but ONLY if a Palestinian referendum (!) approves of its existence and if Israel apologizes for and compensates every victim of the "Palestinian holocaust". In short, he hides his desire to see Israel wiped out behind impossible and irrational terms. Classic 3P rhetoric.
hey DocPazuzu by DarfurOnTheRocks	Dec 19th, 2006 02:25:55 PM
I am just wondering however, what is your position on the genocide of Palestinians by the IDF, DocPazuzu? And how Israel can justify bombing a nation. Lebanon, because 3 of their soldiers were captured?
Thanks for the Answers... by DarfurOnTheRocks	Dec 19th, 2006 02:31:46 PM
...But do not assume to call me narrow-minded please. Israel has a right to exist as does Palestine. But I wonder why do you only want to give them the West Bank and Gaza. It still seems Israel is the entity that draws the lines for Palestine? Also, why do you put Palestinian Holocaust in quotation marks? The IDF DID massacre and imprision a lot of Palestinians?
DarfurOnTheRocks by DocPazuzu	Dec 19th, 2006 02:38:32 PM
I suggest you look up the word "genocide". Also, what would you like to give the Palestinians aside from Gaza and the West Bank and east Jerusalem?
DocPazuzu by DarfurOnTheRocks	Dec 19th, 2006 02:46:32 PM
Just to let you know, I have a graduate degree in English. So your condescending manner in which to write does not come off too well with me. However, DocPazuzu, do you agree that the Palestinians have suffered a genocide at the hands of the IDF? PS: I for one believe in the Holocaust in WWII.
DarfurOnTheRocks by DocPazuzu	Dec 19th, 2006 02:50:32 PM
Well, your degree can't be worth much if you can't differentiate between "genocide", "persecution", "apartheid" or "oppression".
genocide by m2298	Dec 19th, 2006 02:52:16 PM
Palestinian civilians have indeed suffered when Israel retaliates against terrorists from Hamas, Islamic Jihad, al-Aqsa martyrs. There is no planned genocide against them.
DarfurOnTheRocks by Mr. Nice Gaius	Dec 19th, 2006 02:55:47 PM
Regarding the Lebanon raid - I believe Hezbollah crossed the border, killed 8 soldiers, and kidnapped the other two. In a somewhat pathetic turn, Nasrallah would later regret Hezbollah's actions: "If I knew the process of capturing (these soldiers), even with a 1% probability, would lead to a war like this, and then if you asked me would you go and capture them, my answer would be, of course, no."
re Hezbollah by DocPazuzu	Dec 19th, 2006 02:58:17 PM
The kidnapped soldiers were just the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back. Israel had borne the brunt of continuous rocket attacks from Hezbollah for years before acting.
Insults again by DarfurOnTheRocks	Dec 19th, 2006 03:01:14 PM
Ah...insults again huh?! That is never a good sign when engaged in dialogue. But you STILL have not answered my question, which indicates to me that you have NO problem with the way that Isreal treats Palestinians. you see like I said every single life is precious. So if you want to argue the difference between Holocaust and genocide then crack open the OED 2rd Edition, and fire away. The Holocaust was a genocide of the Jews and other peoples by Nazi Germany. But lets discuss the etymology of the word holocaust and you can easily see how one CAN use it to talk about the Palestinian situation. That is of course you want to assign that word to mean solely the genocide of the Jewish people?
But WHY is Hamas and by DarfurOnTheRocks	Dec 19th, 2006 03:07:44 PM
But WHY is Hamas and Hezbollah fighting? It is because the Palestinians have had their land taken away from them. The playing of the terrorist card is so predictable. Hamas are Palestinians in the Occupied Territories. That makes them.......freedom fighters right? I always find it interesting how pro-Israel individuals try to justify the barbaric actions of the IDF. Those rockets that you are talking about are pea-shooters compared to the ordinance that Israel dropped on Lebanon. Why? Ok, because of 8 soldiers? What about that assassination attempts on Palestinian officials by Israel? Does that not require any response?
One More and I am Out by DarfurOnTheRocks	Dec 19th, 2006 03:12:30 PM
I am reaffirming that the Holocaust was truly horrific and that many millions died at the hands of Nazis. I want you to affirm that the genocide of Palestinians by the IDF is truly horrific and brutal. I dare you.
However... by DocPazuzu	Dec 19th, 2006 03:13:45 PM
...according to brokedick, Israel ALLOWED the soldiers to be kidnapped in order to provide a pretext for war.
au contraire, DarfurOnTheRocks... by DocPazuzu	Dec 19th, 2006 03:22:57 PM
...I HAVE answered your question. I find the situation of the Palestinians deplorable to say the least, especially the hardship and injustices inflicted upon them by the Israelis. However, that's far from being a genocide of the Palestinian people. Again, look up the word. You, on the other hand, have NOT answered MY question, namely what geographic areas you would like to give the Palestinians apart from Gaza, the West bank and east Jerusalem? Also, what other country in the world gets criticism leveled at them which amounts to: "unless you're being attacked by a military power with strength on par with yours, you have no right to respond."?
Holy zfisk, Batman! by DocPazuzu	Dec 19th, 2006 03:26:59 PM
You dare me to, brokedick? I thought DarfurOnTheRocks dared me...
brokedick by DocPazuzu	Dec 19th, 2006 03:34:08 PM
Once again you fail to read my entire posts and instead go off half-cocked, which is surprising since you're a complete cock. Also, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you for the latest parroting of 3P doctrine, namely that Hitler "at least was honest". You suck at debating even on good days, brokedick, but you're really batting extremely poorly tonight.
If signing off for now... by DocPazuzu	Dec 19th, 2006 03:36:20 PM
...so I'll leave your sorry piñata ass for Mr. Nice Gaius to beat for a while. See you tomorrow.
P.S. by DocPazuzu	Dec 19th, 2006 03:37:33 PM
That's another brokebackcowboy classic, brokedick. Thanks again for confirming what everybody already knows about you.
bringingsexyback by m2298	Dec 19th, 2006 03:39:32 PM
Do you want the State of Israel to exist alongside a peaceful Palestinian state? If so, you agree with DocPazazu, all the insulting notwithstanding. If you don't want it to exist at all (like NK, Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran)then just say so.
Don't be too flip with the word "genocide" boys... by Mr. Nice Gaius	Dec 19th, 2006 03:45:35 PM
If the IDF is committing genocide against the Palestinians, it's likely the slowest, most inefficient effort at extermination to date. Why build a wall if you plan to kill every Palestinian citizen? What, you think they plan to use it for firing squads? It's too expensive...just ask the Nazis. You have yet to see a legit genocide materialize there and you know it.
RE: "For the sake of the Palestinians" by Mr. Nice Gaius	Dec 19th, 2006 03:57:11 PM
How about for the fucking sake of peace?!
Come on, BSB. by Mr. Nice Gaius	Dec 19th, 2006 04:06:04 PM
There is no state-sponsered master plan or tribal declaration to systematically liquidate the Palestinian people. Seriously.
so.... by m2298	Dec 19th, 2006 04:08:58 PM
you do agree with DocPazazu about the solution to the problem. Now instead of calling people Nazis, why don't we pool and considerable intelligences and see how a productive two-state solution might be implemented -- and is NOT only limited to Israel vacating the territories and letting militants use the areas as a huge area to stage attacks against a diminished Israel.
well, OK by m2298	Dec 19th, 2006 04:32:33 PM
and can we throw in North Korea as well?
m2298,BSB,MNG,Doc & Dafur by S-Mart shopper	Dec 19th, 2006 09:22:53 PM
So, what do you guys REALLY think about Adam Resurrected?
I'll probably watch in on DVD by DarfurOnTheRocks	Dec 20th, 2006 08:50:42 AM
That of course depends if the movie is any good of course.
Ah, brokedick... by DocPazuzu	Dec 20th, 2006 10:18:26 AM
...you impish churl. Here's the thing, and it's something you and I have gone head to head on since you first started posting as brokebackcowboy: in order for me to be your bitch, you must -- at the very least -- try to contest my points and attempt to answer the questions put to you. It's a basic though unspoken rule of political debate. If I answer every single point you brought up while at the same time completely humiliating you on subjects such as the Neturei Karta, and you refuse to address my claims about (and questions to) you, then your stating that I'm your "bitch" can ring in no other way but hollow even to the most casual of observers. The inherent lameness of your statement is emphasized by saying that I'm "running off with my tail between my legs" when I stated quite clearly that I'd be back today for more asskicking. You're fishing for exceedingly cheap points and only people dumb enough to share your Third Positionist views think it's cool. You must try again, brokedick. You must try harder.
is it true that you get to by arghhhhhhhh	Dec 20th, 2006 11:01:18 AM
is it true that you get to see his cock in this one. I'm not bein a smart-ass i've heard it from a few people
re: is it true that you get to by just pillow talk	Dec 20th, 2006 12:19:30 PM
Dude, I think you posted the same thing in Rocky #19 as well...unless you are talking about the Jewish clown? :-)

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Dafoe reteams with Paul Schrader for his Holocaust drama ADAM RESURRECTED!!!

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