Boxing. Will the metaphors be subtle?

But this show constantly amazes me with how certain things play out. I'm sure this episode will end up being much, much more than it appears. Rarely does BSG pull its punches (pun intended).

You and NoHubris do make an interesting point: why not have the crew engage in a Pyramid tournament? The game has already been established and even the names of teams from the Colonies have been referenced in recent episodes. Perhaps Admiral Adama determined that the tension in the fleet was so thick that it actually demanded a few jabs and body blows to cut through it all.

BSG has earned a lot of credit with me since it started, with Exodus pt2 being just about the best hour of drama full stop I have ever seen. Keep the faith, Brothers and Sisters, Even if Ron re-cycled ideas they will still be through the BSG filter. They will be good. Sudden thought...what about a BSG Best Of Both Worlds senario! That could be very good!

I'm just sayin'.

When BSG does it, it hot, dirty, and ballsy. I cant think of another show that could dipict a threesome in perfect context of the show, and not just cheep titalation (although titalated I was! :) )

Loved that first punch from the Old Man, though.

I thought the boxing added a dimension of blood and guts and struggle to the episode. Perfect, because how else would the conflict between those who lived through the Occupation and those who stayed on the Battlestars resolve itself? Something bloody needed to happen to make it feel real. Plus, I thought the boxing matches were well-shot and I chuckled when Starbuck grabbed a nip from Tigh after her first win.

One the best episodes I've ever seen.

If you would've preferred a Pyramid match between Lee and Starbuck, that's cool. But Pyramid isn't a military game, it's sort of a sophisticated game like basketball. No one punches each other in the face and draws blood until one of the contestants can't fight anymore in basketball. Also, no one in the episode used the term "boxing" to describe the matches. Even Roslin, when she told Bill Adama that her father had been a fight fan so she was too, said "fight" not "boxing". Which, in my opinion, lent an edge of unpredictability to it.

You're right that the writer could've gone another route to make the same point in the episode. It's true. But I liked the fact we saw meaningful, haunting flashbacks of what it was like before the Occupation. There were faces filled with hope and optimism, and many characters (including Ellen Tigh) that died horribly, leaving other characters scarred. The balance of bloodiness, memories, and emotional reunion gave this episode more humanity than I've seen in a while. That's also because Baltar appeared only for a few seconds and the Cylons appeared not at all.

But I still think they should keel haul Helo.

Seriously, though, I was pleasantly surprised again--the writer's took what could have been extraordinarily dull filler boxing match crap and turned it into a way to fill in some blanks from the past, at the same time advancing the character development. It was surprising a few episodes back to see Starbuck offship and married, and to see Apollo married to Dee. It was odd to see Starbuck so abrupt with Anders a couple eps back. And here we see what happened, but not just in a flashback way. They brought it all back to be current and affecting things now. Whether you like them or not, like their decisions or not, like them separate or together, tonight was interesting and put everyone in an awkward place. I loved how the crowd started streaming outta there when they shifted from fighting to embracing....

You're like my grandfather, who, after watching the best movie, will join in the discussion with such inanities as "in that one scene she had a strand of hair on her face and it cut back to her and the strand of hair was gone." He says that cause he doesn't know what else to say, but even he's smart enough not to post his stupid shit on a message board thinking he's bringing something interesting to the table. Seriously, if you have nothing to say, just read. You don't have to post.

Fantastic episode. If you don't like BSG, then I don't know what does it for you.

i never get geeks who can't enjoy sci-fi because the laser swords vibrate at the wrong frequency. there is very little - if any - better drama on tv right now!

oh yeah, and Callie's fast becoming *seriously* hot, imho. :-P

this is completely irrelevant, i know, but it interested me to find out that my perception of *physical* attractiveness changes markedly in dependence on my perception of character.

right, sorry: back to the boxing.

plus, have you taken into consideration that Lee was already in a fight with Helo that was called cause he got his ass kicked? Not exactly in top form to fight Starbuck, was he?

And I'm not saying you don't have to post anything but love. Intelligent criticism is always welcomed. What I'm saying is that if you are going to nitpick, what's the point...because you can do that FOR EVERY SHOW. It serves no purpose other than to antagonize. Like an annoying gnat.

By the way, you never answered...if there are shows above your elitist quibbles...then what is that perfect show that does everything right?

While I would agree that woman vs. man in the ring is a bit ridiculous, at the same time you can tell that Katee Sackhoff can throw a punch and she would fuck most of us up, size or not, if she has any actual aiming and blocking ability.

i've had a bit of an issue myself with this since Adama allowed a cylon raider to dock just because he heard Bulldog on the radio... now i, who am not a Naval or any other kind of commander, would have radioed back to him to stand the fuck off while i trained 50% of my available firepower on him, arranged for some very serious security screening (before i let him anywhere near my fleet), scanned the skies and fired up the FTL drive for an immediate jump in case of *any* unusual or potentially hostile activity. that's *my* gripe!

now, i don't think they're anywhere near any kind of shark yet - it's still easily one of the very best few shows around - but i guess i'm just a bit over-defensive!

To answer your question: yes, season three is worth getting. If you haven't watched any Season 3 episodes, I can tell you it's been a slightly darker, more topsy-turvy season, and also a more uneven season than one or two. But the third and especially the fourth episodes were some of the most kickass -- and controversial -- stories yet filmed. Battles raged with full-scale, full-on intensity, and I think most people here loved it.

But several new issues and plot twists this season have added quite a bit to the story, even though not everyone would agree on which characters have made sympathetic decisions. I suppose this echoes reactions to seasons one and two.

I've dug season three so far, and I think most -- but not all -- talbackers would recommend it.

But maybe the reason no one's compared the "Lost" episode format to "Battlestar" is because "Lost" overuses this format, creating its own, troublingly huge story that doesn't seem like it'll ever be able to conclude. Questions beget more questions, which beget more questions, and thus the show suffers from "mystery-itis," which is why so many people are demanding answers to the show's most basic questions.

"Battlestar" doesn't suffer from this. The writing is generally clean, direct, and character-based, and when the show resorts to flashbacks, it's for a reason, as the episode showed us.

Also, I don't think using flashbacks is necessarily "Lost-ish." Lots of movies and shows use flashbacks, and we don't compare them to "Lost." The problem is that "Lost" has serialized this format, in my opinion, leaving so many threads open that all threads are open, so there's never any conclusive drama. It's very sloppy.

Therefore, I personally wouldn't call using flashbacks "Lost-ish," since it's a storytelling device that's been around since the dawn of television.

Just my opinion.

Keel Haul Helo!

Based upon the commercials, I wasn't really expecting too much out of this one. I had a similar feeling about the "Bulldog" episode. And yet there I was again being pleasantly surprise with what they are able to do with minimal set pieces and sheer acting gravitas. (You can't have a "Adama Atmo-FTL Maneuver" every show.) I think there was a lot more to this one than some of you may want to admit. Yes, a lot more...and they did it without a Cylon in sight.

NoHubris is right - Adama's speech was the key, underlying point. And with it, I think he snapped EVERYONE back to attention. The days of letting people off easy (Helo!) may be over. Makes me wonder if the writers read these TBs!

Great stuff as usual. So say we all.

I will also say, I am little tired, too, so forgive me for not NOTICING MNG's grammatical errors! :-)

NoHubris, I haven't followed Lost, since I heard more bad things than good about it (in terms of frustrating teases, wandering aimlessly, and such), so I will agree with you that they started using flashbacks pretty often of late, and risk overuse, but so far no problem. Remember a few months back it seemed that every single show on every single channel started an episode with some big startling event, then cut to "24 hours earlier"? I guess we are in flashback phase.

MNG, I agree with you, as well. This episode's previews left me ready to be bored, and they (once again) surprised the heck out of me. A good story does not always need special effects to be told, and character development most often occurs when the special effects are absent, it seems to me. Adama's speech was, to me, even more subtle and perfect than the face value: He took the blame for the differences on himself, not necessarily because he deserved it, but in the role of Responsible Leader. He wanted to heal the divisions amongst them, and so gave them himself as the one to blame, rather than each other. In doing so he made their differences seem rather petty, at that. He knew what he was doing at the outset, and even said "I'm not going to win" to clue the less clued-in folks (like me) that he was up to something more than a simple fight with the Chief.

The "previously on BSG opener" showed again possibly the single most powerful moment in the entire series: Tigh saying "not everyone..." I am glad they show that now and again.

let's hope for consequences [Keel Haul Helo!].

One cylon was in sight, and I am O So Thankful for that: Her Sighness ShaBoomeron AthenAgathon the Graceful {sigh} was there for me....{sigh, again}

So Say We All!!!!

This is AICN, people are just nitpicking, but season 3 has been very strong. I think definitely better than season 2. Hell, watching Exodus Pt. II alone makes it worth it.

I had a problem with the boxing too. Although not so much because Starbuck was able to beat down "Jamie", but because it was just too similar to modern day boxing. I understand when they use hum-vees and whatnot to keep costs down, but this is an alien culture here. How hard would it have been to create a more unique vision of fighting? Still if this is considered a filler episode then I no real complaints.

Dualla didn't deserve that shitbag, but I still have this lingering feeling that she's a cylon. I had always thought that getting close to Lee was all part of her assignment. Lee should be old enough to know not to chase after the crazy chic either. Just where does he expect that one to go? Then again, he's always been a little unstable himself.

Flashbacks - What I like about how they're incorporated into BSG is that you can see exactly why they are influencing the current scene. LOST's flashbacks (as of late) seem to only hint at motivations and make vague allusions to clues and such. When BSG uses flashbacks, they always seem to have direct impact and importance. They help to make the show's characters even more 3-dimensional by giving us something with actual substance.

The Boxing - Adama's scene with Roslin where he explained it being a longstanding tradition onboard warships made it work for me. I was reminded of a couple of things: A) What he said is true in the real world. And Ron Moore would be more than aware of this with his military background/interest. B) Boxing has been a fairly consistent setting on the show: Adama & Lee's sparring match, Helo & Starbuck in "Scar", etc.

The Fights - The purpose of Adama vs. Chief was for Adama to let everyone know that they were still soft and that they needed to be ready to kick ass no matter the time/place/opponent (whether it be a Cylon or the Admiral himself). Like I said earlier, he put everyone on notice = the Occupation is over, the Rescue succeeded, and discipline is the new order of the day.

As for Apollo & Starbuck, I don't think their match had anything to do with "sexism" at all. The flashbacks during their fight were all Apollo's which gave me the impression that he understood their cumulative anger better than she did. So, my impression was that Apollo wasn't even trying to knock her out. But he was trying to literally knock some sense back into her head. (The look on her face when she took that shot to the nose was fantastic.) Apollo knew what he was doing perhaps just as much as the Admiral. But it was on a more personal level IMHO. Remember, he's the Iceman to her Maverick. They both only seem to be at ease when they're together.

Finally, Dualla is frakkin' hot (I really hope she doesn't turn out to be a Cylon). And watching Hotdog get knocked out by Starbuck in 10 seconds was priceless. Until next week...JUMP!

And yes, I will thank him to keep his treasonous paws off of Her Sighness, too!

Keel Haul Helo!!

Frankly, if I am the Only One Who Notices Her, how special does that make me!? :-)

Please, let her utter the word "chromedome" in an episode just once. Once is all I ask. [sigh] [heavy sigh]

really??

thought not

lighten up, dude

is there a season break coming up, and if so, when's it back? i'm in the uk, so i'm not clued up on US tv scheduling customs. (hey, execs - i'd watch it on tv *with* all the sponsors ads, but your archaic licensing laws mean most of the world has to *wait* for that. modern folk don't wait. thank you, bittorrent... you guys would make *more money* in the long run if you could get your collective shit together for global simultaneous releases of movies, games, tv shows, etc.)