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Dear Paramount, RE: Brian Helgeland's Director's Cut of PAYBACK: STRAIGHT UP. From Harry Knowles.

Cool... by binarybender	Oct 21st, 2006 02:43:26 AM
I look forward to this one!
WOW! by Sinisterjim	Oct 21st, 2006 02:58:23 AM
This one came totally out of left field! I never knew there was all this turmoil with the film. I have to say, Payback was always a film that never quite hit the mark for me, as much as I enjoyed it...it never helped that it was a redo of the great Point Blank, I like Mel, but he's no Lee Marvin! Great peice Harry, hopefully Paramount will answer the call...otherwise, I really look forward to getting this DVD.
Dear Harry, RE: Mel Gibson by indiephantom	Oct 21st, 2006 02:59:22 AM
If this bigoted fuckface ever appears on screen again it'll be too soon. That's never going to happen. PAYBACK was and always will be a piece of shit.
Long live Mel Gibson! by JackPumpkinhead	Oct 21st, 2006 03:08:42 AM
The gutsiest independent director in modern Hollywood! Hopefully Apocalypto is going to be a smash - and this too, as it sounds radically different... and great!
The rumours are true? by Franklin T Marmoset	Oct 21st, 2006 03:20:28 AM
I had always thought this Payback was just an okay-ish, lesser Mel Gibson film, but there were always rumours that a super-secret version with extra goodness existed in a vault somewhere. It's good to hear this was real and not a lie. I can understand why Mr Knowles wants to see this at the cinemas, but I'm just glad it's coming out at all. I look forward to seeing this bonus version, now with added better-than-you-thought-it-wou ld-be-ness, when it comes to DVD.
What's the problem? by jabbathegriffin	Oct 21st, 2006 03:45:01 AM
I don't get why Harry is in such a tizzy about a mid-level Mel Gibson flick that suddenly needs to be brought back to theaters. Nobody cares about directors cuts except us and we're not going to fill that many seats. There's no need to re-release a stiff just 'cause the studio fucked it the first time around. I'll admit that Ridley Scott's cut of Kingdom of Heaven is way more interesting and dare I say, exciting at 3 hours then Fox's 2 hour theatrical cut was. But let's be honest here, who in their right mind would even think to give that movie another chance? Same with Payback. It's probably a great film, but nobody's gonna go see it. I don't even think the DVD will sell that well. Paramount isn't stupid enough to try and generate interest when there isn't any. Be glad it's out there for the people who are interested.
jabbathegriffin by Killah_Mate	Oct 21st, 2006 04:06:51 AM
You mean, who in their right mind would release a wonderful movie in theaters, since people don't know about it, and there's no point in trying to - I dunno - ADVERTISE it? 'Cause, say, Pirates of the Caribbean got known through WORD OF MOUTH, right? You're basically saying "Who gives a fuck about the general public, a long as I get my DVD". That's elitist fanboy crap, dude. If it's a good movie, it's worth seeing for everyone, and worth having people know about it.
That's good news by Vern	Oct 21st, 2006 04:14:51 AM
Hey man, I always wished they'd release this on DVD but figured they wouldn't because they didn't want to piss off Mel Gibson and his hairdresser. I guess things change, huh? I have a shitty bootleg of some kind of early cut of the movie, which I assume is basically what this is. I actually don't think it's necessarily better, both versions have their plusses and minuses. But obviously it is ridiculous for the director to be screwed over the way he was and have the entire last act of his movie completely changed because the star gets cold feet. So I am happy for Helgeland that he finally gets his version. On the other hand, I could never figure out what it was Mel was up to. Supposedly he worried about playing such a non-heroic character, but the way he made his character more heroic was the "this little piggy" scene where he gets his toes hammered but doesn't give them the information they want. I don't see that as a big compromise because it's completely in character for the Parker of the books. And it's a brutal scene. People who like the theatrical cut will probaly miss it when they see the director's cut. Of course, POINT BLANK is a way better movie, but in my opinion PAYBACK is a little more faithful to the character we love from the Richard Stark books. And it's a fun movie. I like it. Too bad it didn't do well so they could do more Parker movies. In the second book he has plastic surgery, so it could be Tom Jane or Ray Liotta or somebody instead of Mel.
I remember hearing about this awhile ago. by WONKABAR	Oct 21st, 2006 04:20:32 AM
I talked to the "this little-piggy" toe-cutter guy in the flick and he told me all about this cut, and I almost couldn't believe what I was hearing. Wow...interesting, I really want to see it.
Thanks a lot, Harry... by TopHat	Oct 21st, 2006 04:24:35 AM
...yet another "I know something you don't know!" article. Uh, how about REVIEWING the new version?? Pointing out the changes and comparing. That's probably too much to hope for. Oh, and by the way, I really loved Moriarty and your's expose on the James Bond franchise and where its at that you both promised like, last APRIL to write. You know, how you were BOTH going to review the CASINO ROYALE script and put in your two cents about the franchise? I guess what we're going to get instead is yet another movie review from you detailing how BADASS Craig and everything is and how HOTT the girls are, and yet another movie review from Moriarty detailing how he was "pleasantly surprised" and how it isn't great and how he wished they would have kept some things from the book, but, its a lot better than he thought it was, especially Craig. Typical for this site nowadays. You used to give US the scoops and rumors, not just HINT at them in your articles.
I don't care... by Azlam Orlandu	Oct 21st, 2006 04:46:56 AM
...Gibson has always been cool and I personally loved the original cut and thought it was pretty brutal for its time. I'm really looking forward to this release.
Sound as a Pound by DirkD13"	Oct 21st, 2006 05:00:32 AM
This is very good news indeed, as long as James Coburn is still in it, "That's just mean man".
I can't understand... by Kizeesh	Oct 21st, 2006 05:01:01 AM
Why people aren't capitalising on the current trend for re-cutting movies to stay ore in-line with original director's visions. Not to sound utterly like a capatalist cynic but the studio's are evidently aware that there is a moneymaking possibility in the re-releasing of Director's "original vision" versions. I have to say though, I don't think that many people will want to see these films at the Cinema, theres an apathy with many people towards seeing re-cut versions of movies. I've experienced it with friends and family alike. They either don't notice the differences (when subtle)or they have no interest in seeing another version of a film they didn't particularly like. Myself I rather enjoyed Payback as a neat little character abstraction in Gibson's career, but thought it failed to ultimately deliver the goods storywise. This new cut sounds intriguing.
TopHat, Lizeesh.... by WONKABAR	Oct 21st, 2006 05:20:11 AM
The D-cut is REALLY different from what I was told. The bad "guy" was actually a chick that you never saw or something. The dude told me the whole last 30 minutes of the movie was re-shot and changed COMPLETELY. As I recall, the toe-guy said that he was brought in seveal times and didn't know if he was in or out of the movie and it went back and forth. And his scene kept changing...toes come off, toes stay on, toes just get roughed up bit etc. etc. Anyway, he told me alot of shit, and like I said, for some stupid reason I thought he was exagerating the level fighting and changes that took place. I never read the book, so this is the first I've heard of it since then. But yeah....it's WAY different. Thanks Harry
FINALLY!!!! I can't believe I'm going to get to see thi by Daddylonghead	Oct 21st, 2006 05:35:57 AM
s! I'm happy with it being on DVD. Haha, anybody remember the trailer for the shitty Mel version, with the crazy chick-flick color panels and the wacky music? I remember seeing that preview and going "THAT'S BASED ON A RICHARD STARK NOVEL??!??!?"
I enjoyed Gibson's version... by LeiaDown&FuckHer	Oct 21st, 2006 06:17:44 AM
But I must admit it never quite felt totally complete, it was a 'fun revenge flick', but felt a bit hollow too, and I always wanted to see the 'controversial' other cut. And now, looks like I'll finally get that chance, and I very much look forward to seeing this apparently darker and more nihilistic version and how it stacks up against Gibson's release cut when this finally hits. It would be nice if dvd has both cuts on it too, just for completeness' sake. Oh, and yes, Point Blank still rules supreme, and a film based on the second book with Tom Jane in it would kick all kinds of unholy ass. Good call.
Never cared enough to watch Payback, but I by CreasyBear	Oct 21st, 2006 07:48:26 AM
didn't know Helgeland was behind it. He wrote two of my favorite movies, so I guess I need to check this new version out. And to whoever brought it up, it's pretty clear Harry meant that Helgeland wrote the script, not the novel, for L.A. Confidential. Almost every script these days is adapted from a print source.
Never cared enough to watch Payback, but I by CreasyBear	Oct 21st, 2006 07:50:47 AM
didn't know Helgeland was behind it. He wrote two of my favorite movies, so I guess I need to check this new version out. And to whoever brought it up, it's pretty clear Harry meant that Helgeland wrote the script, not the novel, for L.A. Confidential. Almost every script these days is adapted from a print source.
Regarding my computer's double-post: by CreasyBear	Oct 21st, 2006 07:52:06 AM
You're welcome!
How about writing to Dimension by alanmck_666	Oct 21st, 2006 08:16:22 AM
Where are the original cuts of Halloween 6 and Hellraiser 4, at least Payback gets re-edited. I know everyone hates Dimension but come on the producers cut of H6 needs an official release. And the reason why so many directors cut seem to be appearing now is because since test screenings started studios have messed with so many releases. They cut 45 minutes of plot from Event Horizon ruining the only good Paul Anderson film and thats saying something, while allowing king Kong to be an hour too long.
What's the point? by reluctantsnob	Oct 21st, 2006 09:08:11 AM
Why see a terrible remake of a marvelous film that tries to replace a wonderfully iconic actor with a shitty and bigoted one? A minor director (which Helgeland is, A Knight's Tale and that horror movie he did are ample proof) trying to outshine a master is an embarrassment. Just watch Point Blank. A masterpiece starring a legend and directed by a genius. Go ahead, look it up.
Man I've been around this site for a long time... by RenoNevada2000	Oct 21st, 2006 09:58:04 AM
I can remember Harry talking about this cut way back in the day.
MEL SHOOTS FIRST!!! by BannedOnTheRun	Oct 21st, 2006 10:12:12 AM
I'll add this to my Netflix "Fingers 'n' Toes" queue with The Hitcher, Darkman, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang... what else?
Lay off Mel by Jumping Windows	Oct 21st, 2006 10:31:11 AM
The Muslims are the cause of every war in the world! Is this an inflammatory statement? Yes. Is it true? There is NO truth when two religious factions have been at each others' throats for the last 2000 years. Jews may not have caused all the wars in the world, but they sure seem to find a role in them some way shape or form. I absolutely hate anybody who kills to preserve a religious ideal. Respect human life, fuckers. That's like somebody killing another because he doesn't believe 2 + 2 = 5. (Call me naive, but I, personally, never did understand why the Nazis hated the Jews, or why Jews were/are maligned in society. It had more to do the aggressor's prejudices than what the Jews ever did to them.) People do stupid things when they're drunk. Mel was labelled as an Anti-Semite because of Passion, and his statements, I think, were made for the same reason that someone feels compelled to jump when they look over the side of a skyscraper. Its what the public expects from him, and Mel was vulnerable to the power of mob persuasion. Mel's sensibilities are more natural than most actors, and he obviously wears his emotions on his sleeve, which is why we like him in the first place. People do embarrassing things at parties. Hell, my wife made out with a chick at a party last week and the next morning she wanted to hide her head in the sand like an ostrich. Me, I wanted to stick my head somewhere else after the hot lesbo acsh.
"That's pure Alligator! That is just MEAN, man!" by uss cygnus	Oct 21st, 2006 10:36:08 AM
James Coburn steals this film. The suitcase scene in the hallway of his house with his bodyguard and Mel is classic. I hope his part is not cut. I will say the whole "This little piggy went to market..." with the rock hammer interrogation scene with Kristofferson is pretty damn good, "I'll give you a blood transfusion to keep you alive if I have to." ...But, I understand why they would cut his part completely. I would love to see this re-cut. "I told you not to trust me." BOOM
I Must Agree, Where's The Review? by Ill Clinton	Oct 21st, 2006 10:52:01 AM
C'mon Harry, if you want us to get excited, give us some details. We've been burned on director's cuts before including the supposedly radically different Daredevil.
Did someone say Tom Rothman??? by Shermdawg	Oct 21st, 2006 11:25:29 AM
DAMN YOU ROTHMAN!!!
Now where is my MULHOLLAND FALLS director's cut? by godoffireinhell	Oct 21st, 2006 11:50:07 AM
Seriously.
Two Legolases, no Aragorn. by Mgmax	Oct 21st, 2006 12:11:51 PM
That's LOTR with Stuart Townsend.
But will there ever be a franchise? by The Dum Guy	Oct 21st, 2006 12:21:42 PM
There are more than enough Parker novels to start a a viable movie franchise, I want to see a Parker movie that actually has a character named Parker. I can only wonder if one will ever be made.
And the REAL reason the Muslims are so pissed off... by Angry White baby	Oct 21st, 2006 12:21:50 PM
is because of the Nazis... no, seriously. One thing the Nazis did when they occupied the Middle East was spread the innuendo that Jews were not to be trusted and to be blamed for all of societies ills (essentially what the Romans started some 2000 years prior due to the Zealots and all that; ever since then, Jews have been the proverbial scapegoat and punching bag for all problems, regardless of whether they were truly to blame or not... you know, kinda how most of you feel about republicans). In essence what you have is a culture of people who hate the Jews due to propaganda spread from the Germans in the 1930s and 40s and they have forgotten to the point where it has just become a part of their culture and society (remember folks, when it comes to fear and hate, rational thought doesn't play too much of a role here). Of course, another reason Muslims are so pissed off all the time (or wait to be pissed off) could have something to do with the fact that they live in a hot, humid desert. I am sure that if anyone of us lived in Death Valley for a few generations without air conditioning we would be plenty pissed off too. >:)
Angry White baby: by The Dum Guy	Oct 21st, 2006 12:25:10 PM
Didn't the Crusades have something to do with Muslims getting pissed off?
Amen & Amen by BDT	Oct 21st, 2006 12:45:07 PM
This was just one of those incredible film experiences for me. Not only do I feel lucky for having gone to this with Brian there to talk about the process but he's the kind of person whose integrity, perseverence and artistic vision should inspire us all. One hell of a movie.
DID THEY AXE THE VOICE OVER??!?! by jackinitraw	Oct 21st, 2006 01:07:12 PM
That was the worst part of that movie IMO. Lucy Lui in domme gear being the best part.
I like the theatrical cut. by FluffyUnbound	Oct 21st, 2006 01:16:31 PM
I don't see how a different 3rd act would work. The plot elements come together so neatly in the theatrical version. James Coburn does almost steal the film. What can I say, the film makes me laugh. It's very entertaining watching Gibson take the syndicate apart. This one is in my "underrated" action film file, right next to "The Edge" and "13th Warrior".
I like the original by El Scorcho	Oct 21st, 2006 03:57:41 PM
If this version is universally accepted as better, that would be awesome. Count me in.
Payback by emeraldboy	Oct 21st, 2006 04:24:51 PM
I remember seeing this film and the other lesser seen Gibson film called Ransom. Which was directed by ROn Howard. There was this thing at the time about actors and they held hollywood over a barrell. Directors directed, writers wrote and producer produced. Since the Chaplin days Actors could pretty Much control films if they didnt like it, they could change any aspect they wanted. But they no power to fire the director.Gibson changed all that as did Ed norton on AMerican history ex. Norton Fired Tony Kaye and took control of the film himself. Tony Kaye has not made a film since. That is whay on film poster you some times have a box with the directors name on it. That means Brian Hegeland got a credit for but not much else. He wrote the story which Gibson thought would ruin his image as a family man. Gibson tried to make script changes but but hegeland would and being that Icon hired him, icon fired him. Gibosn directed the movie himself.
So, Mel hates Jews, SO FUCKING WHAT? by MattCG	Oct 21st, 2006 04:51:33 PM
So does 99% of the world and I don't see you bitching about them all the time. Everyone hates SOMETHING! I despise people who park too close to me and always key their cars. I also irrationally hate anyone who lives in a trailer. If you live in a trailer, you're scum. GET IT??? SCUM!!! However, I would like to see this film, because I've heard so much about it. I'm glad it's getting a release. Because, I love the Parker novels and wish they would all get adapted. But, one thing I could give a fuck about is the goddamn personal feelings and predjudices of the people making them! WHO GIVES A FUCK???? It's like all you cunts who actually care that Vince Vaughn and Jennifer Aniston broke up. WHO GIVES A SHIT??? Vaughn could fuck monkeys while eating babies dressed up in little Hitler outfits and I WOULD STILL GO SEE A FUCKING MOVIE HE PLAYED IN IF IT WAS GOOD!!! All I care about is the movies, all the other shit can go straight to hell.
MattCG, conseling is available... by Alonzo Mosely	Oct 21st, 2006 05:51:28 PM
So much pointless anger...
ANGUS Director's Cut !!! by Rex Manning	Oct 21st, 2006 06:15:15 PM
No one's been kicked in the nuts by studios and execs more than PATRICK READ JOHNSON. Getting thr boot from his baby DRAGONHEART for starters and signing on to ANGUS 'cos he loved the gay father (played by Dr Giggles) character only being forced to cut the entire arc out of the flick! Give us the ANGUS: DIRECTOR'S CUT!
small film...? by s0nicdeathmonkey	Oct 21st, 2006 06:28:16 PM
starring one of hollywoods biggest stars and having a 50 million dollar budget? yea, real small. it did 80 million in the US, not a small film at all Harry.
also, bladder buster? by s0nicdeathmonkey	Oct 21st, 2006 06:28:48 PM
IT WAS 100 MINUTES LONG!
one major difference by Vern	Oct 21st, 2006 10:19:46 PM
I haven't watched that cut in years so I forget what the big caper was at the end (I think maybe a money exchange on a subway?), but the main difference I remember is that the head of the outfit is Angie Dickinson, who you never see, you just hear her voice on the phone. Kris Kristofferson is not in the movie at all, he was added in in reshoots. So you can see that while they are radically different, the bastardized version is not a total wash. I love his part. I don't agree with whoever it was saying Mel Gibson was supposed to "replace" Lee Marvin. Although it has Angie Dickinson as a nod to POINT BLANK it's clearly not a remake. Both are based on the same book and neither are all that faithful. How do you know Mel is replacing Lee and not Robert Duvall (The Outfit) or Jim Brown (The Split) or Peter Coyote (Slayground)? Different guys can play Parker, especially since he always has a different name in every movie. Lee Marvin is definitely the best of all of them, but still not the definitive Parker if you ask me, since his version was much more emotional than the Parker of the books. I think POINT BLANK is one of the greatest badass pictures of all time, but there's still plenty room in the world for a PAYBACK or two.
Was this the movie where (spoiler) by BankyFan	Oct 21st, 2006 10:26:21 PM
Mel Gibson poisioned a woman (Lucy Liu? Deborah Karen Unger?) who thought she was poisioning him, replete with a lame flashback to Mel switching the cup? I remembering seeing a movie around that time (late 1990s) where that happened...if it's not PAYBACK, can anybody help a brother out?
It doesn't matter how they release it... by Chief Redcock	Oct 21st, 2006 11:12:43 PM
Why? Because Mel Gibson is in it. I saw the theatrical cut of Payback on TV about a year ago, and I enjoyed what I saw. I like Helgeland's work and was always curious about his version, but really, none of this matters... their leading man has completely blown his credibility, and he doesn't deserve to win it back after a few calculated, well-publicized apologies. On basic principle, I will not be seeing this movie, and I can guarantee you that many others like me feel the same way... this guy does not deserve our hard earned $$$ or any residuals.
saw it last night at AFF by hank quinlan	Oct 22nd, 2006 03:21:18 AM
I saw this screening. Harry was right down the row. Anyways...It IS way more dark and violent. The Bello story still doesn't gel but is nowhere as LAME as the Gibson cut. Honestly, there were some things in the theatrical cut I did like. But this is a cooler version. And stays true to the sort of 70's revenge flick it's supposed to be. The coolest thing though was Helgeland's Q and A. He was this great, funny unassuming guy. It was obviously a painful experience but he was candid about it. He said he had to wait until everyone at Paramount was gone. Then they didn't care what he did. So they let him recut it. BUT Gibson had to sign off since Icon was involved. He dragged his feet getting to Mel. But Robert Rodriguez prodded him to do it. He sent Mel an email. And Mel said ok. And that Jews suck. Just kidding. By the way, Mel is awesome in the movie. Anti Semite or not. Anyhow...They let BH cut it BUT everytime he needed some money (and he never needed much) to fix something, such as Sally Kellerman replacing Dickinson as the voice, it would take three weeks to get an answer and get the dough. Brian said it was one battle after another. But he did it. He got his movie back. And then he said the coolest thing of the night. He said:"it's like I went back for my 70 grand." And everybody clapped. Just like Parker (or Porter) somebody took something from him. And even if nobody cared. He did. And he got it. Enjoy, kids. Also, if you're curious what's back, theres a fairly accurate rundown in the imdb alternate versions. The action scene at the Oakwood arms they mention was not in the version screened last night.
While licking Brian Hegelend's balls in this thread by Shivv	Oct 22nd, 2006 05:13:01 AM
Realize that this is the same guy that wrote the screenplay for The Postman, A Knight's Tale, and The Order (as well as directed the latter two). I'll give him credit for writing the scripts for Man on Fire and LA Confidential, but let's not pretend that this guy is the greatest filmmaker that ever lived.
Excellent news,... by Uga	Oct 22nd, 2006 08:24:49 AM
Even though I really liked the first version as well.
About two weeks ago in the town of Maden Bargen by emeraldboy	Oct 22nd, 2006 08:30:39 AM
The discovered the bodies 51,000 of people who were DISBABLED. On a program last night which was first screened on German tv in 2000 a german man made the following which is worth bearing in mind. Hitler Hated, the German people, jews were not the only people who were exterminated. the disabled, the gyspies, homosexuals, communists and bolshevicks were all considered un german and therefore were eliminated. I wonder what bush will say when he hears that in China in 2006 , they are actively burning down and demolishing christians churchs and arresting christians for praying to God anyone who saw the report on sky news in the UK, should be rightly disturbed by this stuff. time to rethink the 2008 games? no....
Re: About two weeks ago in the town of Maden Bargen by MovieFan06	Oct 22nd, 2006 10:31:27 AM
What the hell does all that have to do with the DC of "Payback"?
You stupid fucking girls... by morgenes	Oct 22nd, 2006 11:35:53 AM
and your "Mel's not getting a dime of my money now!", obviously little bitches whose primary role model is their grandma. Get off your fucking high horse. Real movie fans shouldn't give a shit if Mel Gibson is a bigot, Roman Polanski likes to play with little boys, or that Jack Nicholson funds most of Columbia with his drug habit. Just watch the goddamn movies, bitches.
Somepeople are using Gibbo's I hate jews thing as a by emeraldboy	Oct 22nd, 2006 12:04:11 PM
Stick to beat him with. They have a clear pc agenda. fuck it these are the times we are living. We cannot seem to enjoy things anymore, without people telling us how we should watch something(x-3 anyone?). I am glad as film fan that studios are putting out definitive versions of films on DVD. I have seen this payback once, I have no desire to see it again. Lucy Liu, though damn, you can whip my ass anytime. Sometimes the most interesting stories happen behind the scenes.
An addendum to my last post by Chief Redcock	Oct 22nd, 2006 02:29:37 PM
I do appreciate the fact that Gibson seems to be remorseful and has expressed a desire to make good. These gestures do matter, and yes, a person who is genuinely sorry for doing something wrong should be given a second chance. But I still don't feel comfortable giving this guy my dough... his views are just so clearly opposite my own, that it wouldn't sit right with me morally. People have been saying that none of this matters, that only the movies count, but on some level, content is important... the values of the filmmakers do impact the films themselves... and our decision to finance certain films allows certain people to stay in the business, able to make any statements (filmed or otherwise) that they want. A discerning film viewer (that is, someone who actually takes the act of watching a film seriously) should know when and where to draw the line. That being said, I do wish Gibson the best in conquering his personal demons.
Gibson doesn't hate Jews... by Alonzo Mosely	Oct 22nd, 2006 03:40:44 PM
He just really, really likes Gentiles...
i thought mosely wrote 'genitiles' by skaul80	Oct 22nd, 2006 06:59:39 PM
anyway, i enjoyed the theatrical version, but i always new it was missing something, that's what always kept me from buying it, even for five bucks..............plus, if gibson does hate jews, why has her worked with joel silver so much?
From the writer of "Nightmare 4: Dream Warriors." by Uncapie	Oct 22nd, 2006 10:38:43 PM
And you guys think you're film buffs...Brian Helgeland is one of the best writers out there along with Shane Black and yet, they have to battle the suits to get a dynamic film made. When "Bladerunner" came out it wasn't a commercial success. Then when they showed the director's cut at the Beverly Theater, people went apeshit! Now its considered a classic. Good for Helgeland that he's finally getting his film out the way it should have been seen. I still say Curtis Hanson and Helgeland should have done the "Black Dahlia." At least it would have still been in the theaters. The problem with Hollywood is, is that they want quantity and not quality. They blame internet piracy and the back market for losing "billions" of dollars. No, its not that. Make a decent film and people will pay for it. They're tired of shit or the same old retred movie with the standard five major stars in the lead. When movies were craeted in the thirties, forties and fifties, the people that wrote, directed and produced them were educated and READ BOOKS. Now we have preponderance of tv babies running the show that don't know jack! Its clear that Brian Helgeland loves movies and that his passion for directing and writing show in his director's cut of "Payback." There should be more film makers like him in charge.
Mel beats the shit out of the Jews who now hate him! by Bari Umenema	Oct 22nd, 2006 10:43:24 PM
Damn Jews. Payback is going to be a bitch. You tried to destroy Mel over Passion of the Christ so of course he internalized all that anger then two years later he gets drunk drives on PCH in Malibu gets pulled over and naturally blames you Jews for starting all the wars in the world. Well it's true! Mel had been watching TV news about the Israeli slaughter of innocent Lebanese civilians and he said what he had been thinking for the past two years. And now it's Payback time! All new scenes are going to be filmed directed by Mel himself in which Porter beats the living shit out of Rabbi Marvin Hier and Abe Foxman and Frank Rich and every other no good dirty damn Jew who ever said anything bad about Mel! This new version will make a fortune I tell you a fortune! And if the Jews protest it they'll get the shit beaten out of them again in Payback 2: Attack of the Jews!
Wow... by Paul T. Ryan	Oct 22nd, 2006 11:20:41 PM
I can't wait for this to turn up in Australia. While i have no love for Mel after the anti-semitism/one true faith/interferring with both this film and Wenders Million Dollar Hotel-things, I'm very happy for Helgeland that this cut has finally happened.
I never knew... by thebearovingian	Oct 22nd, 2006 11:44:47 PM
all this backstory crap about kicking the director out and doing re-shoots and a different cut. I'd be interested to see what it was supposed to be. I liked Payback. I bought it previously viewed from Blockbuster on VHS. Should I feel ashamed?
morgenes it was a young girl that Polanski fiddled with by Regicidal_Maniac	Oct 23rd, 2006 12:01:22 AM
not "little boys" semantics I know. Anyway Payback is actually one of my favourite films so it will be interesting to see if this 'new' version pleases me as much as the 'fucked with' version. If it does great. By the way Mel's outburst about Jews shouyld never have been the story, people say stupid shit when their drunk whoi gives a fuck if he hates Jews or not? The real issue is that he was drunk behind the wheel at the time, drink driving is a very serious and criminal offence. That and only that should be the issue.
Wait a minute, Sally Kellerman? by Vern	Oct 23rd, 2006 01:20:30 AM
What happened to Angie Dickinson? Why did they get rid of her? And how is changing Angie Dickinson to Kris Kristofferson to Sally Kellerman the greatest thing that ever happened but Greedo shooting Jabba or whatever ruined your lives so you could never be intimate again? I'm confused about this.
Never write while drunk and eating a sandwich by Regicidal_Maniac	Oct 23rd, 2006 01:33:51 AM
That should have read: "By the way Mel's outburst about Jews should never have been the story, people say stupid shit when they're drunk, who gives a fuck if he hates Jews or not? The real issue is that he was drunk behind the wheel at the time, drink driving is a very serious and criminal offence. That and only that should be the issue."
DAMN YOU ROTHMAN!!!!! by Doc_Strange	Oct 23rd, 2006 01:55:15 AM
I want this guy to get fired or just get out of movies, period.
If you're gonna hate on a religious sect...... by Doc_Strange	Oct 23rd, 2006 02:04:53 AM
Hate on Freemasons. Seriously, those fuckers rule the world.
Wow. People are still on the Joo thing? by jackinitraw	Oct 23rd, 2006 09:25:48 AM
I wish Southpark would address this and put closure on it. Once they rape a popular water cooler subject it becomes unnecessary for the masses to because they'll never top whatever Eric Cartman does/says. I mean what are people so afraid of anyway? Everyone going, "wait a tick, they do seem to be a major player in every big war!". We already know that folks, and we love you anyway. Especially your women when you're not at home. So the man went a little bongo and yelled it at some cops...it sure as shit ain't a big deal. No worse then when a Jewish guy gets his car stolen and is waiting with fingers crossed that the cops arrest the black guy who did it. You'd have to get one pretty drunk to admit to doing that though.
Scooby Doo and the case of the disappearing post by jackinitraw	Oct 23rd, 2006 09:36:31 AM
Seriously...wtf? Here it is again and if it double posts...blame the system and the man... I wish Southpark would address this and put closure on it. Once they rape a popular water cooler subject it becomes unnecessary for the masses to because they'll never top whatever Eric Cartman does/says. I mean what are people so afraid of anyway? Everyone going, "wait a tick, they do seem to be a major player in every big war!". We already know that folks, and we love you anyway. Especially your women when you're not at home. So the man went a little bongo and yelled it at some cops...it sure as shit ain't a big deal. No worse then when a Jewish guy gets his car stolen and is waiting with fingers crossed that the cops arrest the black guy who did it. You'd have to get one pretty drunk to admit to doing that though.
aintitbrokenwebsite.com! by jackinitraw	Oct 23rd, 2006 09:40:41 AM
best site evre
Lucy Liu + Dominatrix gear = Really sexy. by nemesisdarkside	Oct 23rd, 2006 11:04:21 AM
P.S. Yeah Screw the Freemasons!! ;P
It is an issue by logic33	Oct 23rd, 2006 03:04:00 PM
whether or not Gibson is an antisemite. It makes a difference in the respectability and for the conscientious viewer, the enjoyability of the work. Gibson's comments cannot be viewed as a drunken outburst as their is obviously a history of antisemitism in his family, stemming from his father who has made his own violently antizionist antisimetic remarks. To judge this "outburst" as a freak occurence in view of his family history and personal history is foolish. It is perfectly reasonable, looking at Gibson's track record, to believe that he has a psycholological problem with regards to jewish people. He may not be proud of this. That is perhaps why it takes a fifth of whiskey to bring it out of him. Supposing that he is a bigot and a racist, how can you appreciate him as an artist? A true artist does not lie through his art and producing a work detailing the life of the most tolerant, accepting, kind and unbigoted human being in the history of the world while harboring and perhaps inflaming an inner hatred of the race from which he came, seems to me to be at least dishonest. It is also objectionable. Oh, and the freemasons are terrifying.
Point Blank by Buzz Maverik	Oct 23rd, 2006 03:09:03 PM
That's the only cut of THE HUNTER that I need to see.
More studio execs should be so ballsy.... by Monkey_King	Oct 23rd, 2006 04:28:25 PM
then we'll be treated to more fresh and original ideas from La La Land, instead of needless remakes, cookie-cutter films, unfaithful adaptations or bad remakes of imports(Yes, you Scorcese)
The name Richard Stanley rings a few bells, huh?!?! by Monkey_King	Oct 23rd, 2006 04:34:11 PM
Stanley was screwed on his cut of DUST DEVIL, then got the shaft from ISLAND OF DR MOREAU(which was poorly rewritten/butchered form Stanley's original script, not to mention suffered from Val Kilmer's egotism)
The name Richard Stanley rings a few bells, huh?!?! by Monkey_King	Oct 23rd, 2006 04:34:31 PM
Stanley was screwed on his cut of DUST DEVIL, then got the shaft from ISLAND OF DR MOREAU(which was poorly rewritten/butchered from Stanley's original script, not to mention suffered from Val Kilmer's egotism)
Hey Mel Haters! by JefferyLebowski	Oct 23rd, 2006 06:09:30 PM
Anybody recall Mel reciting from The Merchant of Venice in The Man Without A Face? Of all the passages in all the Shakespeare that Mel could choose to include in his directorial debut, he goes with a little monologue in which a Jew effectively pleads for equality. He's obviously a bright guy, not a bigot. Maybe Mel's drunken rant was a reaction to all the Jewish Hollywood financiers who tried to blacklist him for the Passion of the Christ. Which by the way, didn't seem overtly Anti-Semitic until one line got misinterpreted and challenged. So to everybody saying fuck Mel, fuck his movies, etc, etc, do yourself a favor. You should probably go see Apocalypto instead of buying another ticket for Saw 3. The man is a gifted filmmaker and you don't know shit about his personal life.
Hey Mel Haters! by JefferyLebowski	Oct 23rd, 2006 06:10:08 PM
Anybody recall Mel reciting from The Merchant of Venice in The Man Without A Face? Of all the passages in all the Shakespeare that Mel could choose to include in his directorial debut, he goes with a little monologue in which a Jew effectively pleads for equality. He's obviously a bright guy, not a bigot. Maybe Mel's drunken rant was a reaction to all the Jewish Hollywood financiers who tried to blacklist him for the Passion of the Christ. Which by the way, didn't seem overtly Anti-Semitic until one line got misinterpreted and challenged. So to everybody saying fuck Mel, fuck his movies, etc, etc, do yourself a favor. You should probably go see Apocalypto instead of buying another ticket for Saw 3. The man is a gifted filmmaker and you don't know shit about his personal life.
Hey Mel Haters! by JefferyLebowski	Oct 23rd, 2006 06:14:08 PM
Anybody recall Mel reciting from The Merchant of Venice in The Man Without A Face? Of all the passages in all the Shakespeare that Mel could choose to include in his directorial debut, he goes with a little monologue in which a Jew effectively pleads for equality. He's obviously a bright guy, not a bigot. Maybe Mel's drunken rant was a reaction to all the Jewish Hollywood financiers who tried to blacklist him for the Passion of the Christ. Which by the way, didn't seem overtly Anti-Semitic until one line got misinterpreted and challenged. So to everybody saying fuck Mel, fuck his movies, etc, etc, do yourself a favor. You should probably go see Apocalypto instead of buying another ticket for Saw 3. The man is a gifted filmmaker and you don't know shit about his personal life.
Fluffy- again mostly in agreement by 900LBGorilla	Oct 23rd, 2006 06:14:45 PM
I liked this film and think the Edge is under-rated…13th Warrior though? Gotta depart from you there… I am still trying to forget I watched that one…
Nice rant on hate Matt G Call out the Hating Haters by 900LBGorilla	Oct 23rd, 2006 08:00:38 PM
Funny thing is the people that can’t bear to watch Gibson because he’s such a hater….hate Gibson -and usually seem to hate Christians too- not that that is personal to me- it’s just personally funny. Also, I love how this same crowd often sits there and can’t get over some drunk dude’s rantings (Like we all haven’t said brutal stuff when we were shitfaced), yet when some Middle Eastern dude gets up and says all the Jews should be eradicated…and is serious…or worse actually tries to blow them up- these same “enlightened” folk who so often act like its the Jews fault for being in Palestine….yeah that’s it… sure…
Fluffy- again mostly in agreement- post eaten? by 900LBGorilla	Oct 23rd, 2006 08:42:19 PM
I liked this film and think the Edge is under-rated…13th Warrior though? Gotta depart from you there… I am still trying to forget I watched that one…
Fluffy- again mostly in agreement- post eaten? by 900LBGorilla	Oct 23rd, 2006 08:43:01 PM
I liked this film and think the Edge is under-rated…13th Warrior though? Gotta depart from you there… I am still trying to forget I watched that one…
Wow- lag city by 900LBGorilla	Oct 23rd, 2006 09:18:48 PM
Sorry for the triple posts
13th Warrior by Kizeesh	Oct 23rd, 2006 09:26:58 PM
Isn't a bad film at all. Its just not amazing, its still good fun if taken for what it is. (Thats assuming you're not a retard and could understand that its supposed to have taken him several months and not 2 evenings to have learned Norse.)
100% with you fluffy by WONKABAR	Oct 24th, 2006 05:45:42 AM
I've always dug Payback as is but I'm still curious about how another take on would be. And I'd love to see the rumored extended cut of 13th Warrior as well. Good point about the Norse thing btw Kizeesh. I've seen alot of butt-holes make that mistake on these boards.
Most films one day by emeraldboy	Oct 24th, 2006 06:16:43 AM
will all have directors Cuts on DVD. one exception though. the 5 and a half hour version of apocalypse now will never be released.
This site's TB section is becoming by emeraldboy	Oct 24th, 2006 06:19:16 AM
the internet vversion of the black hole. We know its there, we now it exists. but messages go in and and are never seen again.
I found the original cut highly entertaining... by DoctorWho?	Oct 24th, 2006 04:27:07 PM
...but this sounds great! How many films out there get fucked up in this way? Who knew?
Re: Jumping Windows by ErrantNight	Oct 25th, 2006 04:34:45 AM
Really? You didn't learn about Nazis and the Holocaust in high school? You should have... but they probably didn't cover Mel Gibson. He's accused of being racist... because he's racist. He was RAISED racist, so one could argue that this isn't entirely his fault, but by his own admission, he has trouble... not being racist.
Is it true Mel goves someone a kerb sandwich in this? by Bill Fairbanks	Oct 27th, 2006 07:39:53 AM
Go on Mel!
Regicidal_Maniac has a . . . by Almost_Human	Oct 27th, 2006 03:55:11 PM
both a point and a great screen name. The only real issue is Mel was driving drunk. He can believe there is an alien star map tattooed on Donald Rumsfeld's ass for all I care as long as he makes entertaining movies and doesn't drive drunk. Now had he advocated pedophilia or genocide or something along those lines, then I can see being upset. He was drunk, he was talking shit like drunk people do, AND HE WAS DRIVING DRUNK. You want to be mad at him, don't be made for talking shit while drunk. WE (anyone who has been drunk) HAVE ALL DONE IT. "Dude, I said what?" Even in status and class conscious Japan they ignore what drunk people say. The lowest man on the kiretsu totem pole can say the bosses wife smells like a dead carp and get away with it if he was drunk and later apologized. But Mel was a dick for driving loaded and actually risking peoples lives, yezzir.
I really like the original by TheWacoKid	Oct 27th, 2006 07:27:16 PM
The original was fantastic. I actually thought it was one of Mel Gibson's best movies, so I am worried about this re-edit. I know Harry says it is great, but to be quite honest, it seems he says everything is great, so I don't really take his word anymore. I guess I will have to see for myself.
I always liked Payback by LordSoth	Oct 28th, 2006 04:06:55 AM
But I did feel it could have been more violent. I went to see this movie in a bad mood wanting to blow off steam, and the theatrical version left me wanting.
Re: BAnkyfan. by Gilkuliehe	Oct 28th, 2006 06:35:03 PM
It's been a while but I think nobody replied to your post. That movie was CONFESSIONS OF A DANGEROUS MIND. Sam Rockwell was the poisoner and Julia Roberts was the poisonee. (Spoiler)
Oh and bossprym by Gilkuliehe	Oct 28th, 2006 06:37:53 PM
Go fuck yourself.
Hey, Monkey_King by slapshot	Oct 29th, 2006 11:45:51 PM
Did you get that five disc boxed set of "Dust Devil" that Subversive Cinema's selling? Now that's how you treat a cult film...
I don't want to care..... by shellfishh	Nov 1st, 2006 02:48:58 PM
I would prefer not to know if Mel Gibson is anti-semitic. I liked his movies, I liked him as a Hollywood personality. But I DO know. And this is something I have to think about every time I see one of his movies. This didn't come out of a vaccuum. If Tom Hanks was arrested for DUI and he said "Hey sugar tits, are you a Jew?", he would apologize for making a stupid joke while drunk and life would go on. Tom Hanks has no history with bigotry. But Mel does, with his father, with comments he has made before and after this incident. I would never suggest that anyone else boycott Mel Gibson, or not see one of his movies. If you want to see his movies, go right ahead, it doesn't make you a bigot. People are absolutely right...there are coke fiends out there, and Roman Polanski, and all other manner of whack-jobs. I care about the Mel Gibson issue because I am Jewish. But I'll just say this. HE's MEL FUCKING GIBSON! How bad can it be? How much are Jews holding him back and ruining his life? He's MEL FUCKING GIBSON!!!!!!! He's someone that most Americans would trade lives with in an instant. How deep does the need for a scapegoat run? It's just ignorance. And for GUYLOMBARDO...."And I love Mel - always will. He's got the balls to speak, unlike so many people who have been trained no to." Why don't you have the balls to say what you want to say? Don't hide behind Mel.
Passion of Christ was anti-Semitic? by Maniaq	Nov 6th, 2006 10:35:24 PM
Guess that one went over my head. Was that coz Jesus was Jewish and he dies in the end? OOPS! sorry - SPOILER ALERT!! DISREGARD THAT BIT ABOUT JESUS! Seriously tho, you're all a bunch of hypocritical wankers. Show of hands, who can honestly say they are not racist in the least tiny little bit, not one iota, never had a racist thought in all your life! Anyone? Anyone? If I say the word "terrorist" and you think Middle East, you're out. Or Irish, for that matter. Or Greek, or South American. Ever used words like "wog" or "nip" or "Chinaman" or "nigger" and if you were quoting that still counts. Ever feel uneasy about those dark-skinned guys walking past you on the street? Can you tell an Indian from a Sri Lankan from a Pakistani? Ever feel a little alienated by your Jewish colleagues? OK maybe none of these things apply to you and you've got your hand up. Ever put the word "the" in front of a racial description? Like, say "the Jews" or "the French" or "the Japs" - guess what? We are ALL racist! It is a part of HUMAN NATURE! Get over yourselves! If you don't want to watch a Mel Gibson film that's fine. He's crap. He hasn't made a decent flick since the first Lethal Weapon. Tell it like it is - he sucks as a producer, not great as a director, very limited as an actor. Don't give me this "oh but he hates Jews" crap! Glass houses. Stones. Let's not get these two together... btw I heard the story about how Payback got screwed by it's star - it's a birrova case study - but the way I heard it, it was never gonna live up to Point Blank anyway... Peace
COOOOOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!! by jamie sonil	Nov 8th, 2006 12:30:42 AM
I just saw the movie this weekend on TV and I've always wondered how Helgeland's version would look like in it's completed format! Yeah, get it released on the big screen!
COOOOOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!! by jamie sonil	Nov 8th, 2006 12:31:12 AM
I just saw the movie this weekend on TV and I've always wondered how Helgeland's version would look like in it's completed format! Yeah, get it released on the big screen!
I am not racist Maniaq. by deadguy76	Nov 10th, 2006 05:12:22 AM
I don't hate people because of their race. I hate them because of what they do. Like Jehovah's Witness'. I friggin hate 'em for knocking on my door when I'm trying to watch a DVD. Republicans, I hate'em for favoring the rich and acting like everyone who isn't rich and Christian is stupid. Neither of those are races. Therefore I am not racist.... you are!
Republican Favor the Rich by kevinwillis.net	Nov 21st, 2006 06:58:26 AM
Then they must like Democrats, because the richest folks in DC are your elected Democrat representatives. Ba-dumdum! Foo. Republicans favor the rich and Democrats don't? If that's what you think, you are stupid. Or don't pay attention and drink the Kool-Aid while they take your money and promise they'll give it back to you . . . in the form of farm subsidies . . . that all go to multimillion dollar "agriculture" companies. BTW, you should be down with Gibson. His anti-Jewish shtick has also include a lot of Bush bashing, so he hates Bush and the Jews. Give him a kiss.
I don't even think I know what "Payback" is. by Cotton McKnight	Dec 11th, 2006 07:34:20 PM
Is that the Mel Gibson movie where he goes bananas over 60,000 dollars or something? And do I remember James Coburn being in there somewhere?
On DVD soon by 24200124	Dec 24th, 2006 12:18:36 AM
It's been announced that this cut of the movie is going to be available on DVD on April 10th. Go here: http://www.dvdactive.com/news/ releases/payback.html
Richard Stark -- not Donald Westlake by theJackalope	Dec 30th, 2006 08:55:43 PM
writes Parker novels. Yes, I know Donald Westlake is Richard Stark. But it is Richard Stark, not Westlake, who writes the Parker novels. Stark is a better writer than Westlake (don't get me wrong-- I like Westlake's comedic writing but I _love_ the Parker novels). It was Stark, not Westlake, who wrote the screenplay for THE GRIFTERS. Stephen Frears even wanted Westlake to use Stark's name in the credits instead of his own. Richard Stark rules crime fiction!
Last... by Quintus_Arrius	Mar 9th, 2007 10:28:16 PM
again... sigh!
this is a test by Sublimefn87	Mar 29th, 2007 06:29:28 PM
http://klmartin.wordpress.com/ 2007/03/29/music-instruments-a duio-equipment-for-15-the-cost -in-3days/#respondhttp://klmar tin.wordpress.com/2007/03/29/m usic-instruments-aduio-equipme nt-for-15-the-cost-in-3days/#r espond
Good review hARRY by LeviDTinker	Apr 22nd, 2007 08:53:43 PM
i just watched the directors cut of payback on my Toshiba DLP projector,and wow let me tell you its like night and day between the theatrical cut and the directors cut. what a great difference. if you havent seen it allready, spend the 12.00 it cost at most retailers to pick this up or better yet do it the way i did and get the box set that also has braveheart and we were soilders included in it. i picked up the boxset at walmart for 16.88 you cant beat that price for 3 movies. harry is right they should have released this again via a small rerealease on the big screen, the small screen just doesnt do this cut justice, iam so glad i have my DLP projector.
Indeed, I am last! by Quintus_Arrius	May 16th, 2007 06:39:12 AM
...again!
Orcus... by Quintus_Arrius	May 16th, 2007 07:50:59 AM
Lets play.... with your mum! You go first then I'll go... last!
Still hear! by Quintus_Arrius	May 20th, 2007 02:59:06 PM
Bum breath...
indeed that should be hair.... by Quintus_Arrius	May 20th, 2007 03:06:19 PM
oh wait....
no, no, my bad... by Quintus_Arrius	May 20th, 2007 03:07:25 PM
indeed here
I think so.. by Quintus_Arrius	May 21st, 2007 01:59:57 PM
what do you think?
was eric bana in payback? by egomeme	May 9th, 2009 10:34:24 AM
the guy with the blue backpack at the end of Payback straight up,looked like Eric Bana.But was it him,anyone know?Imdb cant give an answer since the caracter is not listed.
Heh? by Orcus	May 11th, 2009 09:05:18 AM
What brought this up? Sorry about the temporal anomaly Quintus_Arrius

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Dear Paramount, RE: Brian Helgeland's Director's Cut of PAYBACK: STRAIGHT UP. From Harry Knowles.

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