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It's confirmed! Weta Digital doing the effects for James Cameron's AVATAR!!!

first by OriginalThinker	Aug 3rd, 2006 01:21:59 AM
first first first, ha ha ha, real original right?
second by nef	Aug 3rd, 2006 01:23:23 AM
damn that was quick...
but seriously..... by OriginalThinker	Aug 3rd, 2006 01:26:11 AM
Weta rules, between their effects and Andy Serkis' performance I still believe King Kong was a real guerilla. I know someone on here will bitch about this news, I just won't be able to realize why.
Industrial Light & Magic > Weta Digital by Proman1984	Aug 3rd, 2006 01:32:57 AM
Always was better and always will be!
Weta's King Kong by OriginalThinker	Aug 3rd, 2006 01:36:47 AM
is better than anything ILM has done, I know Weta wouldn't be around if it wasn't for ILM's contribution to digital effects but you have to admit Kong has been the best example.
NO! King Kong wasn't as impressive than Jurrasic Park's by Proman1984	Aug 3rd, 2006 01:40:25 AM
Dinosaurs. If you take into account the time difference you will agree with me. At the time Jurrasic Park came out it truly awed people. Sure Kong is extraordinary and impressive but ILM's track record is still stronger.
okay, Kong is better than.... by OriginalThinker	Aug 3rd, 2006 01:43:23 AM
anything from Star Wars Episode 3 and they came out at the same time. The cgi characters in Ep 3 don't hold a candle to Kong.
PERFORMANCE CAPTURE by THE KNIGHT	Aug 3rd, 2006 01:48:51 AM
Seems like Camron went with WETA Based on their track record with performance capture and since that's the case, doesn't weta own ILM in terms of performance capture experience... Someone help me out here... I can see this one might get heated..
Cant wait to buy a Weta Avator Movie Replica... by Darth Evil Dead	Aug 3rd, 2006 01:50:46 AM
For only $500 you can get your very own 1/3 scale Weta Movie prop from the Aviator.. At Weta, we would sell our souls to Satan to make a buck.
Can't wait for this movie now by mattyholmes	Aug 3rd, 2006 01:52:41 AM
This is great news for the movie, Lord of the Rings and King Kong wouldn't have been as great as they were without the help of Weta. www.obsessedwithfilm.com
The Knight... by OriginalThinker	Aug 3rd, 2006 01:53:58 AM
I'm with you, I think only hardcore Star Wars people will say ILM is better. I understand the bias and I understand ILM is a pioneer in the field but I think Weta took the lead with the performance capture King Kong.
Sweet by Trancer	Aug 3rd, 2006 02:11:00 AM

SFX by General_Mortimer	Aug 3rd, 2006 02:25:09 AM
I hate over-use of CG. A real physical object will always look better than a CG object. I mean, if you need a forest in the background, just go out and film an actor in front of some freaking trees instead of a green screen. CG should be reserved for the impossible.
King Kong Sucked! Weta Sucks! by grievenom	Aug 3rd, 2006 02:31:23 AM
I hated that heaping dungpile of a movie. I'm not a fan of the Lord of the Rings movies either. So sue me.
mo-cap vs. keyframe animation by Rindain	Aug 3rd, 2006 02:43:56 AM
I was under the impression that Gollum and Kong were mostly hand-animated (keyframe), with only limited motion capture used for certain movements. On the other hand, films such as The Polar Express, Beowulf, and Pirates 2 (Davy Jones) are more of a traditional motion capture, with pretty much everything, including facial expressions, automatically translated from actor to CGI characteer via mocap. Can anyone clarify this?
So, how's Digital Domain doing these days? by Lezbo Milk	Aug 3rd, 2006 02:49:36 AM
That was Cameron's baby. I'd hate to be the effects company working for this control freak. That's why he started DD in the first place, because he didn't want to have ILM doing his stuff.
The Special FX ILM Did For The Star Wars Prequels Suck! by MetalWater	Aug 3rd, 2006 03:15:20 AM
It's over for ILM!!! Not only has Lucas chased away some of his best FX wizards...let me tell you all...I've visited Skywalker Ranch before...and they act like a bunch of Nazis!!! In other words, they're really not very nice people!!! The atmosphere is oppressive, and the security people are total SS!!! They really must think they are guarding nuclear secrets or something, because there is a God complex at the place that makes you really wonder about Lucas as a person!!! And when I say God complex...I'm talking about a lesser god...not the real one!!! Anyway, ILM has lost it...they've got a lot of posers over there...new production designers, CGI people, etc., but they just plain suck!!! These people are no mavericks!!! The real mavericks that built ILM were chased off by Lucas sometime ago. Listen, in regard to Lucas' new FX staff...let me tell you something...just because you know how to manipulate images on a computer, doesn't make you an artist...not a real one at least, who can instill passion and life into their work!!! The FX in The Star Wars Prequels felt flat...and video game like...There was no true feeling that you were watching events in a galaxy far, far away...No, I felt like I was watching stuffy to bad actors, romping about on a green screened set...which is exactly what it was!!! There was no real depth of field there, it was all off!!! Yes, ILM has lost it, and only stands in name as a pale shadow of its former self!!!
Hello? Pirates? by Karnov	Aug 3rd, 2006 03:28:45 AM
Are you all forgetting Davey Jones in POTC: DMC. THAT was the best CGI I have ever seen, I bought it in a way that I did for Golum but really never did with Kong. The mo-cap was impecable so it seems that ILM have upped their game reciently and are giving Weta a run for their money. As a previous poster commented though, where did Digital Domain come in the running?
I love ILM fanboys by messi	Aug 3rd, 2006 03:37:43 AM
they make me laugh, they talk about track record. So what? Weta has done better effects and that's the point. In fact it is worse that ILM has done so many films and took so long to capture something photorealistic whilst weta caught up and surpassed them pretty fast. Kong is the best piece of CG ever created, better than the dinosaurs from Jurassic Park, they were easy to animate because of the colour, whereas Kong had hair and moved around like a gorilla. Kong owns Davey Jones. Lucas fanboys usually forget that when filmmakers and other filmgeeks talk effects they usually bring up lord of the rings, not star wars.
Ep 3 vs Kong by readingwriter	Aug 3rd, 2006 03:40:12 AM
Episode 3's work is flawless--that's all there is to it. Only the trendy Lucas-bashers can deny that. Jackson is currently where M. Night and Spielberg and Lucas and Cameron once were, but he will "lose it" at some point and we will see how everyone here "always" thought WETA's work had "problems". Kong himself was perfection, but the FX for the whole movie are shockingly slipshod--I mean, come on, two words: "dinosaur stampede"? Ep.III suffers here because of Luca's bellyflop of a trilogy, but you have to step back and look at the whole thing. We have no real-world comparison for Yoda; Kong is a gorilla. Lot more to draw on, to reference. Kong has a lot of good stuff in it, and Kong himself is amazing, but the movie is sloppy. Ep.III just attains a cohesion with the visuals that is in its own league. ILM has a habit of using a bright, primary color scheme, too, which is inherently unrealistic compared to Kong's flatter look, and Kong has that "screen saver" tone to it, too. Both very different visual styles, but when scoring for actual achievment over ambition, Ep. II just wins.
WETA vs. ILM!!! It's No Contest...The War Is Over!!! by MetalWater	Aug 3rd, 2006 03:43:43 AM
James Cameron fell out with Digital Domain years ago...so why are they even being discussed???...As far as I know, not that Michael Bay has bought into the company, they're big come back will be the Transformers movie!!! Look, from ILM to Digital Domain, WETA is kicking all their asses right now!!!
HEY by Magnethead	Aug 3rd, 2006 03:45:08 AM
You got your Star Wars in my Lord of the Rings!! You got your Lord of the Rings in my Star Wars!! MMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!
Oh Hell...Typos!!! by MetalWater	Aug 3rd, 2006 03:53:56 AM
PS-It's getting late...and the typos are flowing out from my keyboard like water from a waterfall. That being the case...the line I wrote about Michael Bay...goes as follows: "As far as I know, now that Michael Bay has bought into the company (Digital Domain), they're big come back will be the Transformers movie!!!" I hope that clarifies that sentence for everyone.
POTC:DMC - From a Weta Nut by CaptainTripsUK	Aug 3rd, 2006 04:18:02 AM
I have to agree with a comment above, I am a complete nut when it comes to all things Weta, but Davy Jones in POTC, is possibly the best use of CGI in a long long time. Even close up on a huge theatre screen it was amazing. King Kong was good, but had a certain degree of `jerkiness` at some key points. Nice one ILM.
James Cameron by 69DUDE	Aug 3rd, 2006 04:19:06 AM
No amount of CGI can stop Cameron writing shitty scripts though. Anyone remember Titanic? 'Who's Freud? Is he a passenger?' OH-HAHAHAHA!!! OH THE IRONY!!! Freud! A passenger!? Oh how us, the omnipotent audience find such pleasure in watching this imbecilic, wafer-thin character make such a glaring mistake!! Old Jimmy sure knows how to knock em dead, doesn't he!!
WETA and ILM by TheAllSeeingEye	Aug 3rd, 2006 04:24:07 AM
When i first saw the work ILM did in Terminator 2 i couldn't believe my eyes. It was absolutely incredible to see what the guys at ILM had accomplished; it was such a moment for me that it influenced what i would do for a career, (though i work on games now not movies, oh well). Anyway, for my money i'd say WETA and ILM were, in terms of skill, on par with each other. There's no doubt that both fx houses have very clever guys working for them who know how to innovate and set the bar higher with each project they do. That said, they each have areas of expertise where they outshine each other and WETA's best trick is character animation and it's my guess that's why Cameron has chose them for the FX in Avatar. MetalWater, i loved your comments on ILM being Nazis. A guy i went to University with got a job there in 2002 and he pretty much said the same thing...you aren't called Chris by any chance?
What I want to know is... by kintar0	Aug 3rd, 2006 04:28:13 AM
are we going to have some stunningly awful James Cameron fan fiction from JDanielP to ignore in this TB? Probably not. He'll probably just show up to restate how he'd gladly toss Cameron's salad.
WETA( by 69DUDE	Aug 3rd, 2006 04:28:16 AM
WETA, what a bunch of Kiwi cunts. They make all that money just by sitting at a PC and pressing some buttons. Fuck them, I can make a sphere roll across the screen in 3DS Max. Can you do that WETA? How about you ILM (I Lick Myownass? Didn't think so.
ILM vs Weta. Now I've seen it all by I Dunno	Aug 3rd, 2006 04:38:30 AM
You fanboys will argue about anything. But just to throw my worthless opinion in, the FX in POTC were flawless. Kong's facial features were flawless but there were parts that were downright embarassing.
69Dude, tell you what... by LlGHTST0RMER	Aug 3rd, 2006 04:52:05 AM
...if you can write a ten-line post without sounding like a complete fucking idiot, maybe then you can bash Cameron for what you think he lacks in creative writing skills. Douchebag.
Yackbacker - AGAIN with the Man-Cats... by LlGHTST0RMER	Aug 3rd, 2006 04:53:51 AM
...although you made me laugh that time. That was funny.
I just used MS Paint for my avatar by Axl Z	Aug 3rd, 2006 05:19:22 AM
hollywood budgets eh? wonder what forums he'll be using that on?
Um, is this based on the cartoon? by Anna Valerious	Aug 3rd, 2006 06:34:22 AM
If they make a realistic 6-legged yak, then I'll be impressed.
The cg in Kong was inconsistant by darthbinks1220	Aug 3rd, 2006 06:49:48 AM
It varied from brilliant to god-awful. Cameron will torment WETA if they produce similar work on AVATAR. God help them. Also, Episodes I, II, III have a bright visual pallet. LOTR & Kong are dingy, dirty thus camouflaging cgi limitations. I give the nod to ILM in the Star Wars versus LOTR/Kong f/x debate.
"catnip tits" by DocPazuzu	Aug 3rd, 2006 06:56:22 AM
heh
Cameron will make them earn their salary. by Mr Brownstone	Aug 3rd, 2006 07:35:49 AM
As far as ILM vs. Weta... they both do amazing work, but just like any crew an SFX team can be hampered by poor direction. Just look at Star Wars and King Kong.
MAN CATS by Lost Prophet	Aug 3rd, 2006 07:41:04 AM
funny stuff- "anti-Feline comments". Always had you as a closet anti-felite (felinite?) and dude where is this party with the hot dogs? can we all come?
People will find excuses for everything: by Monkey Butler	Aug 3rd, 2006 07:46:40 AM
LOTR was darker, so you couldn't see the CGI, Star Wars was bright, so it looked like a cartoon, Kong was based on a real animal, so the animation was easier (although how the fuck you can say that is beyond me - if we all know exactly how an animal should move, wouldn't that put more pressure on the animators to get it exactly right?). Fact is, both houses can have good output, and both houses have had some bad output. ILM has had more bad output because they've worked on a much greater number of projects than Weta. LOTR and Kong showed that Weta are good under pressure, and Gollum and Kong showed that they know what they're doing with performance capture, so I'm guessing that's why Cameron went for them. In the end, if the effects look good, it doesn't matter who made them.
MONOTONE.... by Ra Ra Rasputin	Aug 3rd, 2006 07:49:14 AM
I feel like i know already that i will be sat listening to the fantasic monotone new zealand accent of our friend at weta as he details every facet of the Avatar production to us his minions, and that will consist of hours and hours of viewing and aural pleasure as per Lord Of The Rings. CANNOT WAIT! (and if you are not sure if my statement is positive then please be assured that it is)
2008: A Space Odyssey by Druganaut	Aug 3rd, 2006 08:01:32 AM
When is this baby out? I read the whole talk back and the Weta haters have convinced me but it's true that Jim will knock anyone into shape so who cares? I'm just fucking excited that he's making a massive budget piece of escapism that he's be sitting on for goddamn years. This is what we need in our pitiful lives - to give them meaning! And I'm with Yackbacker 100% although I don't fully understand him. I almost wish there were man-cats in it...
I love it. by DocPazuzu	Aug 3rd, 2006 08:03:13 AM
There's nothing funnier than effects houses flame wars. "Oh yeah? Well mocap THIS, bitch!"
It's Confirmed! by future help	Aug 3rd, 2006 08:04:30 AM
Movie theaters will provide seats for patrons to sit in while watching James Cameron's Avatar!!!!!!!! NEWS NEWS NEWS
This movie is really about man-shaped cats? by Ricky Henderson	Aug 3rd, 2006 08:10:00 AM
This sounds like Planet of the Apes all over again. What the heck is Cameron making here?
Weta? So 20% will look great and 80% like crap by Razorback	Aug 3rd, 2006 08:30:49 AM
ILM gets no awards anymore but that is because everyone knows they are the best. Weta is the little engine that almost could and so they give them everything. KING KONG's effects Oscar is like Milli Vanilli winning a Grammy.
As happy as I am by Mechasheeva	Aug 3rd, 2006 08:33:38 AM
that Cameron's back making epic sci-fi movies, I can't quite shake the feeling that he may have gone off the deep-end Lucas-style. It has been a looooong time . . . prove me wrong, oh King of the World. Prove me wrong.
Druganaut... by Koyaanisqatsi	Aug 3rd, 2006 08:50:36 AM
there actually are man-cats in the film....ok maybe not real man-cats but they're described as man-cats....MAN-CATS!!
goddamn ilm fanboys by messi	Aug 3rd, 2006 08:58:13 AM
i'm not being biased. when lotr's trailer broke internet viewing record that was held by phantom menace i was pissed. but i'm looking at it objectively. A Gorilla, a moving animal with hair(which before kong was almost impossible to animate) is a much greater work of cgi than davy jones. Look at it objectively. Kong wasn't real at all, he moved like a gorilla, his hair animation was incredible. Weta does win in the effects houses. Not to ay ILM is bad, the superimposition in episode 3 was incredible, but some of the animation was terrible, of course with the fact episode 3 was 1 hr shorter and had 18 months post compared to kong's 3 hrs and 9 months post i think. Bad examples? well dooku and any digital character that was in ep 3 was pretty damn cgi, and the one that bugs me alot is when yoda lights up his lightsaber to fight palpatine there is serious animation glitch there. The dinosaurs on kong is a bad excuse considering that scene was like 1 min and the fact is that it does look pretty decent, i just think the unbelievability of what happened in that scene made people think it was bad animation. psychological thing, same as people sometimes complaining about bad lighting when it's not loud enough, don't ask me, i just read a report on that. Point is Weta have more consistent photorealistic effects which is why they are the best effects company. No doubt transformers will look as fantastic as the tripods in war of the worlds or even better.
I, Robot sucked and looked like shit. by chickychow	Aug 3rd, 2006 09:09:26 AM
The Crow had better fuckin effects.
Ep 3 effects flawless?? Get to fuck! by chickychow	Aug 3rd, 2006 09:14:02 AM
Yoda doing backflips never looked good once. It looked like piss mixed with shit in Ep 2, it was still fuckin goofy in Ep 3. Dooku as well. And those fuckin jerky droids.
One thing I've noticed... by Mr Nice Gaius	Aug 3rd, 2006 09:18:43 AM
...is that ILM seems to specialize in all things outer-space. WETA's effects (so far) have been more centered around the real world. ILM's long standing influence has led to the tendency for a lot of movies to have the same looking effects. WETA is a breath of fresh air with unique coloring, shading, and more realistic subject matter. True that some of WETA's effects have been inconsistent (I would probably blame that on project time constraints). But when they are on, they are spot-on surpassing ILM.
So this film will look like shit? Good to know. by LordEnigma	Aug 3rd, 2006 09:21:04 AM
WETA is not even the second best company anymore. Digital Domain and Sony Imageworks have been stepping it up a notch year after year. I would go ILM first. Sony second. Digital Domain Fourth. cinesite, and then WETA. WETA make crap effects and crap model work. That the academy has continued to award this crap factory. This demonstrates a total lack of comprehending the talents of superiour FX houses.
I TOLD YOU GUYS by Mr. Mystery	Aug 3rd, 2006 09:25:57 AM
Some of you doubted my scoop. What you got ta say NOW??? Never doubt me -- Mr. Mystery
Still wating for the Weta Superman Returns statues by Sinestro	Aug 3rd, 2006 09:29:04 AM
Hurry the fuck up! Weta's late on that shit.
For me, ESC was where it was at for the Matrix sequels by Johnno	Aug 3rd, 2006 09:40:36 AM
Despite all the flaws in the movements, Reloaded and Revolutions had some crazy shit!
The fanboy Weta vs ILM debate by Barry Egan	Aug 3rd, 2006 09:48:27 AM
reminds me of a bunch of rednecks arguing over Ford vs Chevy. Hilarious!
Those Weta Superman statues looked like they would by Sinestro	Aug 3rd, 2006 10:03:44 AM
break easily. Looked great on the Diamond Previews, but the shit probably broke during shipping. Any good explanations out there?
FX Schmefx! by NivekJ	Aug 3rd, 2006 10:35:52 AM
Listen, TBers, everybody is doing great work. Just pick up an issue of Cinefex if you don't believe me! I'd scan it and put up a torrent, but those cats need the money since, oh, me and three other people read it. Okay, maybe eight others but the point is every film has good and bad effects work. Spider-Man 2? The train sequence is fucking legend, a comic book page brought to life by Imageworks' lab table, and Sam Raimi zapping it with lightning. Doc Ock's final CG closeup underwater? Breathtaking. But when he grabbed Mary Jane? Looked like fucking Will Vinton claymation! Kong? We've discussed this, and yes, I'd like to see Weta do space opera. And not realistic sterile "2001 Space Odyssey/Mission to Mars/ Danny Boyle's upcoming Sunshine flick which looks really cool" kinda way, but a "Star Wars/ Lost in Space remake/ Bucky O'Hare" kinda way. So, all this talk about Davy Jones, Kong, Gollum, the Monster House Goonies, none of that will matter come 2008. It'll look like paper cutouts. Listen, haters never prosper, effects animation is some of the best it's ever been, and as long as it's tight, everybody wins. Check out CGSOCIETY.com for more goodies, or VFXWORLD.com. Quick shoutout to ESC, Manex, Dream Quest Images, Secret Lab, Jim Henson Digital! Rest in Peace! I'm out!
The best special effect is a great screenplay. by Orbots Commander	Aug 3rd, 2006 10:38:13 AM
As long as AVATAR as a whole is great, does it really matter who does the effects work? Great special effects, though cool, by their nature become dated. A great movie never does. Example: King Kong (1933).
Orbots is right by performingmonkey	Aug 3rd, 2006 10:52:13 AM
Take the prequels. No amount of millions ploughed into the CG could save Lucas's shitty screenwriting and directing. EVEN Revenge Of The Sith sucked, which I thought would be impossible with the story Lucas had in front of him. At the moment I'm leaning toward Phantom Menace being the best prequel. It somehow feels the most real and the most Star Wars. The podrace - as superfluous a scene it might be - was extremely impressive for 1999. It's still maybe the most amazing sequence in the trilogy (visually). Also, the Maul/Obi/Qui-Gon duel was the best in the trilogy by a million miles. The duels in episode 3 should have been better but overuse of insane CG ruined them (not to mention a deluded performance from Ian McDiarmid as Sidious, and also Hayden's inability to act as well as Lucas's inability to write and direct). CG does not a great film make.
But what's Cameron doing with the 3D? by Ghostball	Aug 3rd, 2006 10:56:34 AM
3D is supposed to be the next big whatvever, but so far I haven't heard any acutal reason to justify it. It's just more biological aliens, hyperships and cyber-prosthetics. What about ideas, mindfuck stuff? The action's bound to be great, but I also want Kubrick squared out Jim, not just Starship troopers meets (ugh)Matrix Revolutions. The guy's literally crazy after all - so how about doing something with it? BTW, does anybody give a fuck about the love-lives of soldiers? I shudder to think of armed forces types (and politicians) are screwing at home in full knowledge that at the same time civilians kids in enemy terrirory are getting their limbs blow off in air raids. Oops - wrong meeting... members.lycos.co.uk/michaelfut ure/
Ghostball, good call on the 3D by NivekJ	Aug 3rd, 2006 11:30:39 AM
I'd like to see more subtle stuff done with this 3D, actually see it used a part of visual poetry. I remember reading a review for Chicken Little where he and his dad where in a car, and Chicken Little was sitting in the back. Nothing big, but the effect was supposed to be uncanny. What about a troubled couple in a dreary room, a rainstorm in the distance, with the girlfriend sitting up front and the boyfriend in the back looking at the window? If the third dimension is going to be opened up, there has to be something more substantial than effects spectacle. But Cameron's no hack. As shitty as his dialogue is, he knows how to put together a scene. Sarah Connor and her playground dream in T2? The Irish mother's final bedtime story in Titanic? C'mon, give 'em a chance!
OriginalThinker by THE KNIGHT	Aug 3rd, 2006 12:15:31 PM
I completely agree... I can't think of any movie that ILM has done that has specifically worked on performance capture..
I think Pirates 2 was the most impressive CGI i've seen by troutpencil	Aug 3rd, 2006 01:05:56 PM
There were scenes where kong looked fake, and it was goddamn mindblowing for me that Nighy and the crew on that ship were all %100 motion capture on guys in leotards. Even the fucking costumes were CGI, blew my ass off. Much more impressive than Kong, i think. All the fanboy competition between fx houses is lame, btw. some nerdy shit.
THUNDERCATS!! THE MOVIE by Axl Z	Aug 3rd, 2006 01:19:44 PM
HOOOOOOOOO!!!!
troutpencil by Shaner Jedi	Aug 3rd, 2006 01:32:42 PM
I agree about Davey Jones. Mind blowingly great. His crew were not as impressive, but still great. ILM raised the bar above Kong and Gollum. And congrats to Weta for landing the job of the decade. Looking forward to you folks knocking our socks off. Cameron rides herd hard.....very hard, but you're up to the challenge. B)
by the way by Shaner Jedi	Aug 3rd, 2006 01:36:53 PM
I heard one of Cameron's stpulations in the deal was the fx for a set price, but with his right to go back and rework shots at no additional cost. Heard some studios balked at the idea.
Cameron will whip them into shape. by Tall_Boy	Aug 3rd, 2006 01:41:26 PM
Feel the wrath of the King, baby!
WOOO HOOO CGI MAN CATS!!! by Spiderhulk	Aug 3rd, 2006 02:08:38 PM
ITS CATASTIC!
i agree. Pirates 2 is the best CGI to date. by future help	Aug 3rd, 2006 05:45:42 PM
Borat! i need Youuuuuuuuuuuuuu!
Original Thinker by MondoGundark	Aug 4th, 2006 12:12:14 AM
"I still believe King Kong was a real guerilla." Gorilla, as in primate, or guerilla, as in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C he_Guevara
Blue Peter is better than Weta and ILM!!!.. by Jugs	Aug 4th, 2006 12:15:49 AM
..all you need is some bog roll and sticky back plastic! People need to grow up..they are both good special effects houses.
my mother described the efx in Episode III quite by beamish13	Aug 4th, 2006 01:17:47 AM
succintly: "They looked like flying legos." I refuse to see that film, but from the five minutes I caught at a Tower Records, I'm inclined to agree.
what what what? by Magnethead	Aug 4th, 2006 03:01:34 AM
man cats? will the have flying litter boxes? hold on now. all you have to do is turn on a gaint vacuum cleaner and the fuckers will run and hide under a bed. Giant vacuums scare the shit out of man cats.
This is the guy that made... by kwisatzhaderach	Aug 4th, 2006 03:38:28 AM
THE TERMINATOR, ALIES, THE ABYSS, TERMINATOR 2, TRUE LIES and had a strong hand in POINT BREAK and STRANGE DAYS. Cameron is BACK baby!!! Summer 2008 is gonna rock!!!!!!!!!!
kwisatzhaderach by Lost Prophet	Aug 4th, 2006 04:29:01 AM
It is also the man that made titanic. Dont count any chickens.
The truth is this is still so totally up in the air by Ghostball	Aug 4th, 2006 04:42:23 AM
We can but hope that he hasn't lost it, in a Lucas'technology obssessive'stylee...
WETA's effects aren't so special by David Frames	Aug 4th, 2006 04:47:24 AM
ILM's effects work is demonstrably more polished than WETA's - note the effects flaws in Kong and Rings. WETA has advanced quickly but it's still comprable to Digital Domain Vs ILM about 10 years ago. ILM have 30 years of R&D and experience behind them and whatever the naysayers may think, that's evident on the big shows. Davy Jones was terrific I thought and shows that Lucas' people can always trump their competetion. That said, Avatar could change everything but would you really bet against ILM coming back afterwards?
Lost Prophet by kwisatzhaderach	Aug 4th, 2006 05:10:34 AM
See how I wisely left Titanic out of his resume? ;) Still, Cameron has a pretty good batting average and he hasn't messed up a sci-fi movie yet.
Two 'man-cat' points by Druganaut	Aug 4th, 2006 06:55:54 AM
First off Magnethead's giant vacuums gag is really funny. Secondly, to answer Koyaanisqatsi: I kinda got the impression from the last TB on this on this flick that the aliens or whateva were described in casting as 'cat-like' in their movement and grace and that's it. I'm really starting to hope I'm wrong though. MAN-CATS!!
kwisatzhaderach by Lost Prophet	Aug 4th, 2006 07:50:26 AM
I remember the great titanic battle- before I got banned- I just hope this does rock and all the time he has spent tooling about on the bottom of the ocean hasn't destroyed his mind and he can bring something back like Terminator/ Aliens/ True LIes etc. Cept with MAN CATS. Which is intrinsically cool.
"k1ntar0" (gamertag) upset/ butt kicked on XBOX LIVE. by JDanielP	Aug 4th, 2006 08:33:33 AM
The funny thing is... he doesn't even know it's me when I'm doing it. HAHAHAHAHAHA!
ILM vs. Weta by gengrievous82	Aug 4th, 2006 10:34:51 AM
Its really funny to compare the two. I thought it was really funny what I read in an earlier post that compared the CGI in Jurassic Park to the CGI in King Kong. Nevermind that there's a 12 year difference between the two. So to say that the FX in King Kong are better than the FX in Jurassic is just, I dunno, ignorant. It was because of the leaps and bounds made in Jurassic Park that made it possible for companies like Weta to do what they do now. Peter Jackson has even said so himself especially in making of documentaries. Refer to the fourth disc in the Star Wars DVD set. A lot of people have come and gone from ILM, but it wasn't because they were "chased" away. A lot left to pursue bigger projects or projects of their own. ILM isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination. They have their hits and misses, Van Helsing being one of them. Weta will have their fair share of hits and misses too. I'm glad both exist because despite the fact that they collaborate at times to solve technical issues, they fuel each other in raising the bar on visual FX. Good for us as an audience.
Yackbacker... by Druganaut	Aug 4th, 2006 10:57:59 AM
...is a genius. Can we get that idiotic Merrick off AICN and replace him with either Yackbacker or a 6ft cat? Here is some early Weta motion capture footage. SCOOP bitches... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =iV6DQuEh4UQ
This will be groundbreaking stuff. WETA > ILM + Sony by R.C. the "Wise"	Aug 4th, 2006 11:20:53 AM

The fact that Cameron chose WETA speaks volumes about by R.C. the "Wise"	Aug 4th, 2006 11:23:53 AM
ILM. The only director that pushes ILM is Speilberg.
The fact you chose to post that RC by Shaner Jedi	Aug 4th, 2006 11:42:44 AM
shows you have no idea about the fx industry, where bids are usually awarded according to price+economy. gengrievous82, very good post. Competition is good. Weta had Gollum. Now, ILM has responded with Davey Jones. I'm sure Weta will answer that challenge in Avatar. It means great things are ahead for us as an audience and for those companies. It's always been that way. Boss was challenging ILM in the 80's, along with Apogee and Dream Quest. In the '90's it was Digital Domain and Imageworks...and a ton of other houses. Today, it's Weta, some really great British houses,Imageworks,and a ton of other houses. It's been this way since post-Star Wars in '77.
u by presidentevil	Aug 4th, 2006 12:08:09 PM
u
Gollum and King Kong by one9deuce	Aug 4th, 2006 02:22:38 PM
are both superior to Davy Jones. Bill Nighy's eyes really made Davy Jones come to life. The work ILM did is spectacular, but he would have to be 100% CGI to impress me more than Gollum and King Kong. WETA made two creatures that don't exist, exist. Amazing. James Cameron + WETA + Sci-Fi = Audience getting blown away.
ILM vs. Weta by gengrievous82	Aug 4th, 2006 03:48:58 PM
Thanks for pointing that out Shaner Jedi. A lot of people don't know how the FX industry works. FX houses operate a lot like construction companies where bids are made for a particular project. RC did post an inaccuracy. Spielberg is a great filmmaker and one of my favorites, but to say he's the only one that pushes ILM dismisses, for example, the two VFX Oscars ILM won from Cameron's work on The Abyss and Terminator 2. I had almost forgotten about Boss, Apogee, and Dream Quest Images. Dream Quest especially had quite a bit a talent and it was a shame to see them disappear.
one9deuce by Shaner Jedi	Aug 4th, 2006 04:14:11 PM
"The work ILM did is spectacular, but he would have to be 100% CGI to impress me more than Gollum and King Kong." He was. 100% Grade A CG.
Shaner Jedi. No, Davy Jones is NOT 100% CGI. by one9deuce	Aug 5th, 2006 12:55:26 AM
It was CG over Bill Nighy. Those are Bill Nighy's eyes. Not CG.
Jerky Droids? by Damer1	Aug 5th, 2006 07:10:35 AM
Aren't they supposed to be jerky? This fight is just an extension of the geek war between LOTR and SW. They both live in harmony on my DVD shelf.
Wrong one9deuce by Shaner Jedi	Aug 5th, 2006 11:20:27 AM
you don't know what you're talking about. I asked the animation sup on the film and he told me. Stop talking smack and go here: cgtalk.com Go to the Davey Jones appreciation thread. It's covered there. They thought they might have to use Nighy's eyes, but did not. 100% pure CG buddy. ;)
something none of you knew or know by 1hounsfield	Aug 16th, 2006 02:46:31 PM
next time you talk to WETA ask them who's motion capture software they use? Did they use their mo-cap capabilities for Gollum, or someone elses? I think you'll find they couldn't do it themselves.

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It's confirmed! Weta Digital doing the effects for James Cameron's AVATAR!!!

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