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DOOMSDAY!! Five Reviews of The 28th DOCTOR WHO Season Finale!!

Upon Further Review... by Kelvington	Jul 8th, 2006 09:03:23 PM
I made a mistake, the Cybermen WERE NOT sucked back into the void with the Daleks, they were pulled through rifts or something. I was very wrong. Sorry!
I liked this episode a lot by joeydoo	Jul 8th, 2006 09:11:44 PM
I had some good action and I love the fact the it was all just to split up a couple. Universes had to be torn apart and they had to be forced into different dimensons. How epic is that? But Catherine Tate at the end was utter shit. All the emotion and...... how can I say this.. quality.. was sucked out RIGHT ON THE LAST FEW SECONDS! She was the.. like sucky, rift, hell hole of the episode. Shame she didn't come along sooner. The Daleks wound have just fucked right off on their own. AM I BOTHERED CATHERINE? Fuck Off!
Damn that was good! by Mister Tacks	Jul 8th, 2006 09:14:12 PM
I damn near cried. This was a perfect way to end Rose's stint with the Doctor. I'ma miss Billie Piper. As one of the rare Americans that loves this series all I can say is that I am very glad that I gave this series a chance.
Good, but not great by CrispyOne	Jul 8th, 2006 09:16:15 PM
The technobabble REALLY populated this script, and it's so overdone it was just time to "tune out and ignore it." Like a bad Trek episode. The Rose conclusion was pretty good, acting-wise, but the whole "This is the story of how I died" red herring was bullshit. They should have not done that old narration trick, or really killed her off. But as it was, anyone with any sense knew if she was narrating, she was going to the other universe. So nothing was surprising. The f/x weren't spectacular for a finale, but still pretty good. Tennant did a good job, and hit his stride right at the right moments in the story. It was a good conclusion for Rose, but just not as good as Parting of the Ways, as one of the reviewers mentioned. All in all, a so-so capper to a so-so season. I think again, RTD's writing is what's holding this show back from being really, really good. I just think Eccleston raised the bar, and the script writers haven't been able to deliver material that any other actor can pull off as well. Time to improve the writing, I think.
Got a few chills during this episode by performingmonkey	Jul 8th, 2006 09:24:22 PM
Firstly, this was OFFICIALLY the most fan-wanky episode of new Who to date, what with the Daleks and Cybes coming together and mentions of Skaro (the Dalek homeworld) not to mention classic Dalek and Cyberman dialogue that would make even the most stubborn of new Who-haters smile. Also, Russell T Davies finally got his shit together with the script that included many great moments (the idea of these 4 Daleks having NAMES and being the 'cult of Skaro' officially rules). Sadly, the thousands of Daleks appearing out of the Genesis Ark felt more like overkill than threatening. I much preferred the idea that those 4 Daleks alone could take on 5 million Cybermen, not to mention the population of Earth, and win! Tennant has never been better than he was in this ep. I'm actually looking forward to his further adventures as the Doctor whereas a few weeks ago I just wanted him to regenerate as soon as possible. Billie gave a GREAT performance to remind us why she was cast in the first place. I particularly liked the part where the Doctor quickly laid out a plan which would literally leave them worlds apart and she says 'yeah right, like that's gonna happen...' the way she played it was great - half sure of herself and the Doctor's stability and half scared. The end scene on the beach was the best for character this season by a LONG way. Finally they got close to matching the greatness of Eccleston and season 1. Oh, and I KNEW they wouldn't kill Rose.
My thoughts on the narration... by Kelvington	Jul 8th, 2006 09:28:53 PM
This is a tough one, because on the one hand it was as the CrispyOne says red herring bullshit. But the Doctor does tell Rose that she died here on this Earth, and I think you have to consider that might have a larger impact on a person than you might think. I think you could have the episode without the narration and not really miss anything. Personally, I would liked to have had an Adrick moment and actually killed her off, and then have the closing credits be her broken mobile on the floor while differnt music ran.
Dalek... by Jason C	Jul 8th, 2006 10:01:29 PM
KHAN!!!!!
One day, TomBodet will get bored with his WHO trolling by SpyGuy	Jul 8th, 2006 10:19:24 PM
Eventually, I think, he'll realize that he's the only one who thinks trying to wind up DOCTOR WHO fans with his "Run upstairs to get away from Daleks" intellectual masterpieces is a funny gag and without the attention he so desperately craves, he'll finally leave his mother's basement. Smacking himself in the head, he will suddenly exclaim, "What the FUCK?! I could be banging a chick or trying to get a life right now and all I'm doing with my time is trying to piss off DOCTOR WHO geeks with Dalek jokes?! JESUS MOTHERFUCKING CHRIST!!!" Someday, perhaps...Someday...
One fuck up by Mister Tacks	Jul 8th, 2006 10:41:21 PM
My one complaint is that it would have been better if Mickey caught Rose instead of Pete. Say whatyou will about him but Mickey loves Rose every bit as much as the Doctor. Probably more if you think about it. Plus it would have given Rose more of a reason to be with him again instead of just being with him because she can't be with the Doctor. Both Mickey and the Doc were the really big losers to an extent. Mickey because his girl will forever love someone else and the Doc because the one person he loves is now gone. *Side note....there was one other Time traveler on earth. Adam. The kid with the latch door in his head that the Doctor kicked out of the Tardis. I guess his bitch ass got sucked into the void as well. lol. Fug'em. He was trash anyway. lol
Its not time Travelers... by Jason C	Jul 8th, 2006 10:51:54 PM
Its the people who have traveled between the universes.
pretty good by aestheticity	Jul 8th, 2006 11:28:28 PM
but as always, a resolution thats uncomfortably neat. i know this is who, its inconsequential, shit happens and then doesn't happen, etc, and lightweight easy solutions are its metier, and thats probably fine. i just wish we could see a series finale with something that doesn't involve some technomagic words and everything happy ever afterwards. a cliffhanger maybe? i could go for that. perhaps... hold onto something... a STORY ARC? something not wrapped up in, at most, a 2 parter? ----- aaanyway, it was a pretty sweet episode, my friends and i were laughing our asses off at the dalek v cyberman dialogue. man, daleks can totally serve smack, who knew. pleased to see the lone pepperpot escape so next time they want to bring them on it isn't just out the blue, and also to get a mention of skaro. i HATED the very end, with catherine tate, because firstly it completely jarred the carefully built poignance of the moment, and secondly because i really, really fucking hate catherine tate. shes a shrill, ugly-inside-and-out bitch, whos 'comedy' isn't, and whose wretched characters actually represent herself. i wouldn't even have minded as much if theyd finished on the wedding dress from behind without seeing her wasp-chewing face and hearing that fucking voice. jesus. i know right now, whatever the christmas thing with her is, its gonna suck. just have to hunker down for series three and look forward to seeing how that freema wossname stacks up.
Please Lord, make it download faster!!! by Col. Klink	Jul 8th, 2006 11:31:20 PM
I'll be back after burning this to disc.
'Catherine Tate stole that kids sneakers!' by XoanonTORN	Jul 8th, 2006 11:47:04 PM
Great ep...just downloaded it... One question, think there's a Doctor in that other universe?
Or did I dream it? by teej71	Jul 8th, 2006 11:49:11 PM
Does anybody else remember the dalek leader disappearing saying something about a "temporal escape" or some such gubbins? I may have been drunk while watching the episode and hallucinations may have occured but I'm sure I saw that. A very quick moment to ensure that the daleks can be pulled bright and gleaming from Davies's arse in the next series. I'll watch it again tomorrow and check.
Fucking GREAT finale. by AnnoyYou	Jul 8th, 2006 11:55:19 PM
I cannot wait until the DVDs for this season come out. This finale puts every other genre finale to shame (except possibly the one for "Farscape"). Now this is the way you conclude a story, all you egotistical American genre showrunners (and I'm looking at YOU, Whedon, Carter, Braga and Thomas): with decisiveness, with genuine feeling, with tragedy, with love. Both Tennant and Piper absolutely killed in this episode, and the writing was superb. And if making me drown in my own tears wasn't enough -- in typical bone-dry British fashion they stick in Catherine Tate in full wedding drag right in at the very end! Hee. I love this fucking show! And I can't wait for "Torchwood" or the Christmas special. Bring it on!
that's some reviewering there... by jccalhoun	Jul 9th, 2006 12:06:27 AM
Since when did reviews consist entirely of summarizing the episode? I just got done watching it, and 1)I can't believe that they are going to call the Christmas special Runaway Bride. That is just too funny. I think that the Christmas tease, like last weeks tease should have came after the credits. That would have ruined the flow less... 2) Yes the black lead Dalek did escape through time. See you next season Mr. Dalek... 3) I wonder if the handful of people that got turned into Cybermen will be dealt with either on Torchwood or Dr. Who... 4)Doesn't the alternate dimension have Time Lords???... 5) I think this season has really shown that even 2-45 minute episodes is not always enough to tell a story. It would have been nice to see some Doctor Who style twists and turns and running hiding and plotting that at least one more episode would have provided. 6)What about the Cybermen from out own universe? Certainly they won't be happy that some other universe's version tried to barge their way into ours!... 7)Glad they handed Rose's leaving the way they did. When it came time for her to get sucked into the void, I felt the Doctor was such a punk for not letting go and diving after her. Pete's arrival made it ok. If Rose had got sucked in and died leaving the Dorctor hanging on saving only his own life I would have been pissed. I can overlook that bit of bending the character to serve the plot if it meant we got a proper farewell.
very good finale... by omarthesnake	Jul 9th, 2006 12:10:09 AM
though lordie, the convolutions to get everything in place so Rose couldn't get back to "her" universe were a bit much. Yeah, we get the point, she's stranded without her Doctor. Tennant is terrific. Piper was phenomenal. Mickey and Jackie got some darned fine moments. and the four daleks with personalities were wicked-cool, especially when they started the trash talk. Dunno who this Catherine Tate is, but the final seconds of the episode were so jarringly out of place that i'd rather they, you know, avoided them altogether. And TomBodet, you know, 1, the Daleks got over their problem with stairs around 1988 with a Sylvester McCoy episode so your comment is so out of date that people born when Daleks could first zip up stairs are in college now, 2, your wacky comment ain't funny anyhow, and 3, the real Tom Bodet is a very funny fellow whose reputation would be sullied by you if anyone gave a flying fuck about you or your comments. Fortunately, they don't. Oh, and back to the episode, I agree with the poster above who said they wouldve preferred the notion that 4 daleks could take on 5 million Cybermen. But the swarms of Daleks were still wicked.
JCCalhoun:"Black" lead Dalek by CrispyOne	Jul 9th, 2006 12:20:31 AM
I read that and thought, "how does he know the guy inside the Dalek is black?" before I realized what you meant, heh. Good to see the Daleks are racially sensitive! Black Dalek power!
When that Ark opened, WOW! by Col. Klink	Jul 9th, 2006 12:59:52 AM
Millions of Daleks! Who'd have thought? I would have liked to see some more big-scale Dalek vs. Cybermen smackdown, but on a BBC budget I guess we should be happy with what we did get. And Billie will be back some day as a guest star, wait and see!
What a disgusting display of racism! by hulk_beanpoll	Jul 9th, 2006 02:16:55 AM
They only cast that main Dalek because it was black! I've seen it in Dr Who and at the BAFTAs and its shit. This is political correctness gone mad. When it comes back next year it's going to be the worst thing to ever happen on television. Stupid BBC taking away jobs from decent regular Daleks and giving them to blacks. Luckily for me I won't be watching because I will have my head jammed firmly up my ass. [/ForumFatale]
MAJOR SPOILERS: Two questions about episode. by jezza_c	Jul 9th, 2006 03:53:15 AM
Absolutely superb ending of series. Nice closure to Rose - Billy's down as one of best companions in Dr Who history (3rd to SJS & Leela!). Don't be too harsh on Catherine Tates runaway bride - her show shines in British comedy at the moment. She will give a superb cameo turn. However, two plot-holes bother me which Russell T Davies may have missed: Why did Dr not realise the Tardis-qualities of Genesis when Daleks mentioned "Time Lord" Science immediately? Rose energised Dalek by touch in Ep Dalek. Genesis was made by Time-Lord not Dalek. So why was Genesis energised by Mickeys touch? Just a thought Jezza_c
EPIC.......juuuuuuuuust epic. by RobinP	Jul 9th, 2006 04:12:09 AM
What a way to finish the season, and what a way to bow out a much loved companion. But, as ever - I'm getting ahead of myself. The cliffhanger last week promised a lot. The TARDISODE promised a lot...those daily teasers over at the BBC's Dr Who site promised a lot. Natural geek anticipation kicked in and expected a lot....and it was all delivered. This particular viewer was fully satisfied at the end of it all. It even did the improbable - it made Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel more valid in my opinion, as I see them as a set-up for this. (Kinda the The Phantom Menace to this Star Wars original trilogy - shit by itself, but a vital component when all is revealed.)So many high points to choose from, but if I had to...absolutely HAD to...it'd be the verbal bitchfight between the Daleks and the Cybermen. "You have declared war on the Cybermen". "This is not war - this is pest control". The best Dalek line ever. The Genesis Arc being bigger on the inside....damn...how come NONE of us talkbackers guessed that one ? Is this the last of the Daleks ? of course not. As my apprentice & son...he who will be known as StephenP...pointed out, the Black Dalek called for emergency evacuation. I'd bet the house and all its contents they got away. Flying Daleks.....holy crap, that was cool. Wrist mounted guns on Cybermen...awesome, and far better than those accordion type things they used to have in their first appearance. (I guess the sixties weren't big on ergonomics). Unlike the reviewer above, I thought the Torchwood lady (sorry, I can't recall her name) still muttering "I did my duty for Queen and country" with a single oily tear trailing down the side of her Cybermask was a memorable dramatic moment and fit in perfectly with the way her character had been established. As for Tennant & Piper....they should be proud of a job well done. Masterfully scripted by Russell T Davies the inevitability of the split and the performances delivered by both leads must be considered the high point of the entire run of Dr Who. We've seen companions leave before - from Susan Foreman onward. Some we've been glad to see the back of and hardly missed, others like Susan, Sarah Jane to mention only a couple...and now Rose, leave a gap in the series that's very hard to replace. The new companion has a very tough act to follow. The sight of both the Doctor and Rose in tears on opposite sides of a wall in parallel universes certainly had my wife & daughter in tears, as did the Doctor's ghostly image on the beach. I always thought Han Solo's "I know" was the coolest retort to "I love you". Sorry - a cooler one just came along from Tennant last night..."Quite right too". Finally...one question to the usual suspects out there....the Sunday morning Who talkback regulars....What the hell do we do with our Sunday mornings NOW ??? I guess I'll be talking to ya Christmas days, guys...until then - keep safe.
Catherine Tate? by durmer killik	Jul 9th, 2006 04:14:52 AM
I read her entry in Wikepedia, and I still don't get it. Please enlighten an uninformed American.
Reading the second review by DrLektor	Jul 9th, 2006 04:17:06 AM
made my eyes bleed, learn to use a spellcheck, please god! So many Trek references in this season it's great, the Vulcan salute, Genesis, Khaaaaaaaan! I thought for a moment that the Dalek's had got hold of their own TARDIS or at least the birthing matrix, nice surprise there.
Mickey's touch... Time Lord Science by ZeroCorpse	Jul 9th, 2006 04:30:17 AM
The Daleks adapted Time Lord science to power themselves and other things in a pinch. This is why the weak Dalek gained energy from Rose's touch, and this is why the Gallifreyan Genesis Ark worked under the same principles. Drawing energy from time travelers is Time Lord tech, not Dalek tech. The Daleks just stole it at some point long ago. --- I hope this episode finally puts to rest all the "Daleks vs Stairs" arguments. Daleks can hover and fly, albeit slowly. I'm sort of glad the Dalek/Cyberman war ended fast. I don't know how much longer I could have dealt with "EX-TER-MIN-ATE!!! DELEEETE! EX-TER-MIN-ATE!!! DELEEETE!" --- I was slightly disappointed that they didn't get some other old Who enemy in there to mix it up with the other two species. Still, it was an incredible episode. Sci-Fi and the BBC are really missing an opportunity by broadcasting a year late and adding so many fucking advertisements (every 8 minutes!!!) to the American showing. PUT THE DAMN SHOW ON THE AMERICAN iTUNES STORE FOR DOWNLOAD, BBC! You'd make a ton of money!
WOW! by ROBE	Jul 9th, 2006 04:31:18 AM
Just when you are about to lead a lynch mob against RTD, he writes to cracking good episodes in a row. Catherine Tate is a comedy actress in the UK who just showed up dressed as a bride in the last few seconds of last nights episode.
Again with the L&M bashing by WiseJoeyD	Jul 9th, 2006 04:47:10 AM
Oy oy oy [or however you transcribe "weary tutting"]
Ratings by supertoyslast	Jul 9th, 2006 05:11:05 AM
This got 7.7 million viewers - the same as last week's which immediately followed the England match. 43% share so very impressive. Far outdoing Parting Of The Ways which got about 6.5 million. But not the best ratings ever - that goes to Rose and The Christmas Invasion which both got 10 million viewers each. And was it really mentioned in the episode that the Daleks adapted Time Lord technology or is that fannish justification? I may have misheard, but I thought Rose said that they adapted themselves during the Time War - not from Time Lord technology. But I've been wrong before so I may well have missed that bit.
Rain helps ratings? by ROBE	Jul 9th, 2006 05:26:08 AM
I don't know about the rest of the UK but it was raining where I live. It is a good rating and should mean it has a final figure of over 8 million. I think it mentioned that the Daleks adapted themselves to feed of the energy of time travellers, handy if you are fighting Time Lords.
Really good stuff by WiseJoeyD	Jul 9th, 2006 05:28:04 AM
Now that we get away from constant "oh look, he CAN write a script" musings on RTD, I loved the episode. For me, the weaknesses weren't the writing, it was the direction of some scenes. Pete transmating to save Rose for instance; surely they could have shown them skidding backwards to the Void or at least had him appear NOT ready to grab her?! After all he wouldn't have known this was happening. He could've appeared, pulle dof fhis feet and start to be pulled into Void, Rose smacks into him, he pushes The Button. Much better than the slightly stilted way it actually turned out! Ditto to things like Mickey being nudged onto the Genesis Ark. Little niggles like that. I think it was only fitting the Doctor never did get to tell Rose he loved her. Too many fanboys would have been up in arms (we're only just getting over the repurcussions of the TVMovie!). Hopeless romantics will be content knowing what he wanted to tell her; Hopeless fanboys can just pretend he was about to say "You're a minging Chav!" Loved Torchwood head coming back as a fucked up "Queen & Country" Cyberwoman. Loved the trans-universe wall hugging scene. 9/10 (loses mark for some poor directing that made some scenes look some kinda amateur dramatic production but the STORY was brilliant. Well done RTD)
Yes, WiseJoeyD, the direction... by danowen	Jul 9th, 2006 05:41:57 AM
I agree that many of Who failing's come from the direction of the episodes, although the writing is clearly the most important factor. I think it stems from the fact the UK doesn't have the filmmaking culture of the US, so while all US TV directors aspire to be cinematic, UK TV directors seem content to just get the story across visually as best they can. Things are changing, however, because the British kids who grew up on American TV and films in the 70's/80's are now in their 20's/30's and trying to combine both cultural mentalities. The only problem is that Doctor Who is probably the ONLY genre show the UK has that these directors would want to get involved with. I have no idea how old "Doomsday"'s Graeme Harper is, but he directed a 1984 episode of Dr Who, so isn't exactly a spring chicken. Euro Lyn, however, was born in 1971 and (I think) has directed the best modern Who -- "The Unquiet Dead", "Tooth & Claw", "Girl In The Fireplace". And his age give credence to my belief about directors in their 30's being influenced by US sci-fi with how they approach Who.
Daleks by RMcD3	Jul 9th, 2006 05:48:00 AM
This episode proved that the Daleks are infinitely better than the Cybermen. New Cybermen aren't cool and never will be. Daleks don't even need to try. Daleks don't care if it's 1966 or 2006, whether this is the new Who or the old, they're above it all. Someone really should give them their own series - forget Torchwood, I want to see a Cult of Skaro spin-off! And they get lines like 'nor did we need him alive', 'social interaction will cease' and 'this isn't war, this is pest control'. Fantastic.
I keep hoping.. by RMcD3	Jul 9th, 2006 05:54:30 AM
..the success of Doctor Who might open the way for some 'serious' British space-based sci-fi a la Trek, B5, Firefly or BSG. Now that CG has become so affordable there's no particular reason we couldn't make a series like that on the cheap if the ambition was there. Instead we get Hyperdrive..
Script script !!! (Spoilers) by 2LeggedFreak	Jul 9th, 2006 06:08:59 AM
Whilst the Daleks and the Cybermen were bitching at each other there was a cut away to the Doctor and Jackie so we missed some of the argument (but could still hear them going at it in the background ). I wonder if it was just "rhubarb, rhubarb" or whether there were some great little snipes in there. I need to see the script !!. All time classic has to be the pinch from Dads army: Cmen IDENTIFY YOURSELVES. Daleks : IDENTIFY YOURSELVES Cmen : IDENTIFY YOURSELVES Daleks: IDENTIFY YOURSELVES Cmen : IDENTIFY YOURSELVES Daleks: DALEKS DO NOT FOLLOW ORDERS Cmen : YOU HAVE IDENTIFIED YOURSELVES AS DALEKS THe Dalek/ Cyberman confrontation wayyy exceeded my expectations and will go down as a classic. Cmen: YOUR DESIGN LACKS ELEGANCE Daleks : DALEKS ARE NOT CONCERNED WITH ELEGANCE Cmen : THAT MUCH IS OBVIOUS Oooh aren't omnipotent, all conquering psycopaths just real bitches underneath it all. Loved it.
It was fantastic by Babyshamble	Jul 9th, 2006 06:12:11 AM
When I say I cried it wasn't one solitary tear like at the end of school reunion, it was full on, snot inducing sobbing. The best season finale I've see in a long time. And like RTD promised, it delivered. Unlike say JJ Abrahm's promise about the lost finale. Which was good, but nothing compared to this. Gah! Can't wait 'til christmas. Oh and I love Catherine Tate. erm, so there!
But how will they top this? by supertoyslast	Jul 9th, 2006 06:15:48 AM
Now that they've had Daleks at the end of the first series, and Daleks versus Cybermen at the end of the second series what the hell are they going to do for the end of the third? Daleks and Cybermen are the only Who villains that the general public are aware of in an iconic way - but you can't keep wheeling them out or it'll get repetitive. My money is on next year featuring the Time Lords in some capacity - most likely to be hinted at by the Face of Bo. Bo was going to reveal a secret to the Doctor and I think that's going to be it - the Time Lords still alive. Maybe we'll get the Master? Oh, and I agree about the huge coincidence of Pete appearing in just the right place at the right moment braced ready to catch Rose. It was fitting, but a real "how did he know to do that?" moment. Maybe if they had established something like being able to see through the rift from the other universe. Minor quibble, though. The thing which annoyed me more was RTD's comments in Confidential afterwards. First of all he said that there was never any question of Rose dying because Doctor Who is an optimistic show - so we now know that although cameo characters will die, he will never have the balls to kill a companion. Thanks for that. Then he said that it was right for Rose to leave to keep the show constantly moving. But I'll repeat my criticism from last week - it's ok to keep the show moving to start with just to get ideas established. Doctor regenerating, companions leaving etc. But now is the time for stability. Take the time to explore what you've got in more depth - rather than moving too quickly and just skimming the shallows. Time for some real character development with deeper meaning. Rotating the cast every year would just feel restless.
danowen - Brit direction by WiseJoeyD	Jul 9th, 2006 06:17:30 AM
Yep that seems to sum it up. Consider Joe Ahearne who'd had some experience with his own vampire show. Gave us the lovely moments (like the image of the Tardis winging its way through space to save Rose in The Parting Of The Ways) and it never had the little niggles I've seen in Harper's episode(s). I also can't put my finger on what makes me instantly hate the 'aesthetic' of each episode this series. They must've got a different director of photography because this series colours are harsh and the onus seems to be on a "whitewashed" look to proceedings. Now you can tel lit's all in a studio under 6500K lamps. It's difficult to describe. It was most obvious when they replayed last year's clips on DWConfidential. They were more softer and "filmic" [sic] compared to the 'Nickleodeon' look to this series. NOT TO SAY I HATE THE SHOW COS OF THAT! Just me thinking on a technical level what they could do to impove it.
I fully agree with Supertoyslast - oh...and Daleks. by RobinP	Jul 9th, 2006 06:35:53 AM
In 2 seasons, we've had a higher than average number of lead cast changes. Now, we need stability, and we'll certainly need to "get to know" the new companion before she's kicked to the kerb. Billie Piper's character worked well, because she was obviously "us". She was an ordinary person, from a background not unlike that of the average viewer, certainly somebody we could identify with - regardless of gender or class. We all know a "Rose". Unlike most of other companions, she wasn't from the far-flung future, the past, an alien planet or whatever. She wasn't a child genius, she didn't have a military or intellegence background. An ordinary person thrown in to extraordinary circumstances. She served the same purpose as Watson to Holmes. The person to whom things have to be explained for the audience's sake. Did I really read that there was implied racism in the use of the Black Dalek ? Silly, silly ignorant little people. Before you go off on a self serving political correctness tirade, look back at Dr Who's history. Back in the day, there were soldier daleks, the standard grey colour. The Black Dalek was (pre Davros, where the history was rewritten) the leader. The Black Dalek was the badass in charge. Has this ANYTHING to do with race ? I guess not. I'd say it had more to do with making him more easily identifiable back when Dr Who was transmitted in monochrome, dumbasses. Red, yellow, green, beige, purple or lilac wouldn't have worked. Honest to God...some of the people on these talkbacks....Okay, let's turn to the Cult of Skaro. Fantastic - these Daleks have names. NAMES !!!! We haven't seen Daleks with names since the heyday of the TV21 comic strip. Jeez, I wish I could show these to you guys who never saw them. The artwork, the attention to detail. The current incarnation of the Daleks seems to owe a lot to the strip.
Did I really read that there was implied racism...? by hulk_beanpoll	Jul 9th, 2006 06:56:33 AM
I don't know. Did you? If you're going to comment on the posts of others, you should first be sure whether you've read them or not. ;) My post was a piss-take on ForumFatale's unique brand of offensiveness, which he put to good use in the previous Doctor Who talkback. If you read the stuff he was posting, it's clear that I'm sending him up.
FINALLY !!!! You CAN read The Dalek Chronicles ! by RobinP	Jul 9th, 2006 06:57:13 AM
Okay, people - get set for a treat. Here's a link to the original TV21 strips I've mentioned repeatedly since last year, and it won't cost you an arm & a leg off ebay either. Okay, so the Daleks looked a little freaky and skinny in the first few strips, but stick with it...it improves. BOY does it improve. Well, what're ya waitin' for !!! Follow the link...and enjoy....http://tinyurl.com/nl t5b
WiseJoey: YES YES YES by CrispyOne	Jul 9th, 2006 06:59:39 AM
The shift in production quality is noticeable from last year! I saw that, too. Last year was darker, more painterly. this year was very studio-based, harsh and fake. Good observations. And BTW,Robin P, we were joking about Black Daleks.
Hulk_Beanpol & Crispyone by RobinP	Jul 9th, 2006 07:04:01 AM
Yaeh...I get it. I can be a cranky, grumpy fucker at times.
Hulk_Beanpol & Crispyone by RobinP	Jul 9th, 2006 07:20:07 AM
Yaeh...I get it. I can be a cranky, grumpy fucker at times.
RobinP by hulk_beanpoll	Jul 9th, 2006 07:45:50 AM
S'ok. I know where you were coming from. The guy I was spoofing is living proof that someone IS stupid enough to say something like that, and that makes me mad too.
more terrifying than any other episode... by Porco_Rosso	Jul 9th, 2006 07:47:06 AM
...soley because of the inclusion of catherine tate. Seriously. When she turned around my blood chilled. How? How could they taint this fantastic episode with this terrible so-called comic? What's worse is that last year I COULD NOT WAIT for for the Christmas Special, whereas this year I fear it. I cannot think of any woman on the planet I hate more than Catherine Tate (although that one from Alistair McGowan's Big Shit-Fest comes close). Why? Her limited screen time only confirmed that this 'runaway bride' (sigh) will feel like an off-cut from her pitiful sketch show. Am I Bovverd? Yes. Yes I am.
supertoyslast, next year's finale... by danowen	Jul 9th, 2006 08:57:24 AM
... will likely not involve the Daleks. I think they should rest them for awhile now. I'm far more interested in getting specifics about the Time War (cruelly forgetten about for most of s2). I really think they need to focus on the Time Lords some more, so I want the s3 finale to involve The Master. BTW, anyone else think Davros was in the Genesis Ark? It made more sense given the word "Ark" (Noah/Davros) etc. But never mind... millions of flying Daleks was a good alternative.
favorite Dalek line in the whole ep. by VoodooV	Jul 9th, 2006 09:58:03 AM
YOU ARE BETTER THAN US IN ONLY ONE ASPECT....YOU ARE BETTER AT DYING!!
I guess this a bit fanwanky but... by Sly Fox	Jul 9th, 2006 10:42:38 AM
I would have liked to have seen UNIT troops fighting the Cybermen and Daleks. They've faced them both before so you would have thought they'd be the frontline troops.
Catherine Tate by danowen	Jul 9th, 2006 10:43:39 AM
I think she's very good on her sketch show, but it could so easily go the way of the Peter Kay episode, I suppose. A shame Who is already stunt-casting, a factor that destroyed the show in the 80's. I don't know the premise to Runaway Bride, but I'll assume it will involve Tate's character in some kind of arranged marriage perhaps, or some other marital cliche given a sci-fi twist. Not exactly seasonal stuff. And the new companion doesn't turn up till s3 begins properly, unless they shoehorn Martha Jones in somehow (wedding guest?)
I cried like a girl who'd lost her Barbie by HarryBlackPotter	Jul 9th, 2006 10:46:16 AM
It was genuinely moving. The saddest ending of all time. Still a bit moist now actually.
Next season, my money's on..... by RobinP	Jul 9th, 2006 11:13:20 AM
...The Master !! Yeah, you heard it here first. Some weeks ago, I was talking to someone from the production who let THAT little baby slip. Of course....it could've been a red herring.
RobinP, it has to be the Master... by ChrisPC24	Jul 9th, 2006 11:28:35 AM
The first season had the Daleks, and the second had the Cybermen, so the Master is probably pretty close. However, I have heard some rumors about the Ice Warriors!
Catherine Fucking Tate by David Frames	Jul 9th, 2006 11:32:17 AM
It was fine aside from the usualcamp indulgance - dalek banter, Oberman's cyberman who for reasons not fully clear had emotions, a vengeful gait and developed cyber-tear ducts. Utter bollocks. Rose and family gone is wonderful, its like having the all clear after an op to remove a tumour, but the climax with Tate showing up in a bridle costume didn't exactly have me counting the days to Christmas. The other thing is the occasional lapses in the production - yes there's the intrusive and inappropriate music but the scene in which Rose was hanging off a lever was laughable - she looked like what she was - a girl lieing on a trolley being pulled away very slowly. The effects are good but this minor gaffes let the side down. The deadwoods gone though, safely marooned in another universe - I therefore look forward to the next series with hope if not expectation. Incidentally, is it time for the doc to find a way to regenerate the timelords? The series was a much fuller place with them in the background.
The Time Lords by danowen	Jul 9th, 2006 12:01:34 PM
Can they come back? Well, this is sci-fi, so anything's possible. I appreciated them doing something different with Doc being the last of his kind, etc, but time to get them back for s3, I feel. I'm hopeful some of them survived in similar fashion to the Daleks, or at the very least The Master (although since the '96 TVM is canon, that may prove difficult). Still, yes... one thing that always bugged me about Who was the relative ambiguity about the Time Lords, Rassilon, Gallifrey, etc. The new series could finally give us some clarity on them.
number of points: by aestheticity	Jul 9th, 2006 12:24:21 PM
first, i agree that the visual quality is reduced from last year, now i look at it. its so noticeable when you get the flashback to 'dalek'. that episode had all the same elements, theres nothing different IN it, it just looks like a small film compared to this series, where most episodes have 'looked' like an episode of eastenders, like a filmed stage show under lights. difficult to explain. its probably nothing more than some post processing filters or something. secondly, id just like to say again how much i HATE catherine tate. and with that out the way, lastly, and this is important: ive noticed since the start of this series that someone here consistently provides solid scoops on future who. noone else ever notices, and they never make a big deal about it, but i keep seeing shit happen in who that i read about on a talkback months ago. i can't identify who it is though. they must drink with the production crew, or maybe theyre even part of it. could we perhaps formally out them now, so everyone else can start to regard them as the who insider? which one of you is it?
RobinP, ChrisPC24: I've also heard Ice Warriors rumors by SpyGuy	Jul 9th, 2006 12:45:29 PM
Personally, I think the Master is a more natural progression, though. We had a couple seasons without him to get that awful Eric Roberts taste out of our collective mouths, so after Daleks in Series 1 and Cybermen in Series 2, Series 3 seems primed and ready for the Master. Advance rumors are pimping the Ice Warriors, though, so maybe the Master in Series 4 instead?
Great finish, but... by Deep Cover	Jul 9th, 2006 01:26:08 PM
...the WHO writers are really going to pull some fantastic stuff out of their ass to keep me as a viewer. Billie Piper, and the way they allowed the Doctor to actually fall in love with a companion (instead of just kids-table flirtations), kept me coming back. Now that she's gone -- like I said, the Christmas episode is going to have to be stellar. Billie was amazing on the beach at the end -- hope that gets her much more work, cause I can't wait to see more of her.
Aestethicity ......is it by RobinP	Jul 9th, 2006 01:49:33 PM
(shit, I can't even SAY your handle leave alone spell it)...anyhoo...I know who you mean. I've been thinking the same thing. It's TomBodet isn't it? That guy's gifted insight has had me suspicious for a loooong time.
The Master is dead. by Yoda's Ball Sack	Jul 9th, 2006 03:20:19 PM
We will see the Ice Warriors and Sea Devils next year.
Ice Warriors and Sea Devils? by CrispyOne	Jul 9th, 2006 03:32:42 PM
What is this, a hockey game?
Old villain recycling... by danowen	Jul 9th, 2006 03:46:35 PM
Okay, you expect the Daleks and the Cybermen, and appearances from K-9, The Master and the Rani are welcome... but I've always had a problem with RTD bringing back the Autons, so if s3 regurgitates Ice Warriors and Sea Devils... ugh. Oh well, old faves are perhaps better than farting Slitheen. None of the new villains have been particularly good, have they...
What went so wrong with Tate.. by WiseJoeyD	Jul 9th, 2006 04:21:14 PM
There were 4 shots of her; 4 lines for her to deliver... And the problem was the silly woman played four different comedy characters. Four lines and each one more camp and OTT than the last. I hear RTD and a skeleton crew were there to secretly film and direct her scene... somehow, that makes sense given her atrociously indulgent time on screen. First line; whimiscal sing-song "oh!". Not bad if she'd gone with that. You know, genuinely non-chav bride shocked and in awe of the Dr/Tardis. But oh no, someone said "up the emotion". So we get more "Angry chav" (from her large repetoire of old lady, and chav) instead of a genuinely stand alone creation. You know.... RANGE!!! Anyway, by the time we hear her grating "What the HELL IS THIS PLACE?!" [was it just me, or did it sound nearly Dalek in it's screech?!] we're meant to be looking forward to Christmas.. aye fucking right! {#And as I said earlier I hope they get a new visual style to the series. This "Blue Peter Studio" look can't go on!!#}
PS: Don't rock the... by WiseJoeyD	Jul 9th, 2006 04:23:52 PM
boat? No. Dalek? Oh yes! Please production crew, if you bring them back do NOT shake them when they talk. FFS they're TANKS! Unless they're using some sort of 50th century version of Cher's vocoder they shouldn't be shaking/quaking! And the voices, why are they pitching them up and up? Next time we see them they'll be on helium! [#End of fanboy rant#]
Excellent end! Fanboys & girls are weeping! by r3sp3ctm3	Jul 9th, 2006 04:27:26 PM
Excellent end to the series - but how the heck will they go from here. The only thought is to bring back The Master......Dalek's with TimeLord Technology..... dum Dum DUUUUHHHHMMM!
thoughts... by lynxpro	Jul 9th, 2006 04:31:12 PM
Loved it, loved it, loved it. Except the Catherine Tate bit ruined the emotions that should have had a proper ending. I really feel that the scene should have been after the credits rolled. As for the UK ratings, it wasn't as high as Rose, The Christmas Invasion or the 1996 TVM, but I'm happy to see that it did very very well. I'm also happy that the Genesis Ark didn't shoehorn the Looms into tv screen continuity. While I would have liked to have seen Davros, I don't think there was enough time to show him. I'd like to see the Cybermen return, but not these puny alterna-Earth variety. I want to see the visually updated versions of the Cybermen of old, sans the gold weakness. The ones that would put the fear into the Daleks. What I would like to know is if the Christmas episode is going to be shot in HD since Season 3 is supposed to be the first season that NewWHO will be shot in HD goodness. Villains, my bet is on the Ice Warriors, going from all the rumors floating around. But as for Spyguy's assertions on Eric Roberts as The Master, Roberts played the role as he was told to do. Just as Anthony Ainley did as instructed when he was in the role. Give a decent characterization of menacing - sans the panto - and give it to Roberts and he'd totally make you all forget the name Roger Delgado. And thus, I want another outing for Roberts. Download the CSI Miami episode "Wacked" if you want to see Roberts in his trademark menacing performance as brought about by a decent script.
The Master by Sly Fox	Jul 9th, 2006 04:44:37 PM
Eventually he'll appear again but I hope they manage to keep it a secret, it's really annoyed me that some of the suprises this series have been totally ruined by the press... do people really not watch TV unless every plot detail is presented to them before hand? It would be great for The Master to reveal himself at the end of the first episode of a two parter.. that would be a cliffhanger!!
Yes r3sp3ctm3! by danowen	Jul 9th, 2006 05:04:36 PM
How did the Daleks get Time Lord technology? Hmmmm. Methind the Master made himself a deal. Just ignore the 96-TVM...
My Last Thoughts... by Kubla_Khan	Jul 9th, 2006 05:40:35 PM
I liked it. Not as good as Army Of Ghosts, and a bit melodramatic, but good Who. As a season, patchy as hell. I'm not sorry to see the back of the Tylers. But Davies, I've dissed your writing a lot, that was by far the best ep you've penned. But next year -- more strange planets! Less synth music that shits on the drama! Grittier storylines! Suspense! Leave London alone! Anyhow. 4 good eps out of the lot, some good work here, some exceptional work there, some terrible malarkey elsewhere. Learm and go forth, I'm still a viewer and I'm a bastard.
Some plot point (/hole?) questions....... by CloneRangerUK	Jul 9th, 2006 06:15:51 PM
Some plot point (/hole?) questions....... .....great episode, but can anyone shed any light ony these? Please be gentle with me as I have only seen the episode the once! 1. If Pete Tyler was soaked in voidstuff, why wasn't he immediately pulled in to the rift? (or a least start being pulled?) 2. Come to think of it, how did he know when & where to appear? 3. Wasnt there a point where Mickey said that the jump disc (or whatever it was called) only take one one person? If so how could Pete have jumped himself AND Rose back to the paralell earth? Did he have two discs? (it was a fairly quick cut). 4. When the gateway started to fail, why werent there Daleks & Cybermen bouncing off the wall? 5. Why did the lever start to fail? 6. Why were there only Daleks being pulled through the rift, when you saw Cybermen all around the world being sucked up in the air? It was mentiened that the Daleks AND Cybermen would be sent to hell. 7. What about the Cybermen that were created in Torchwood tower? There must have been a fair few made & they hadn't jumped worlds, so wouldn't have been pulled into the void (like poor old CyberYvonne!). 8. Why did Jackie Tyler have to jump to the paralell world? She wasn't soaked in voidstuff, so surley she would have been safe when the doctor had sealed the rift? 9. Since when can Daleks teleport? (i.e. the Black Dalek) - seems that they can do almost anything lately! Thanks! BTW way I agree that the bit at the end was very jarring & spoilt the emotional impact - that and the fact it was Catherine BLOODY Tate!
great episode... by 13th Doctor	Jul 9th, 2006 06:37:17 PM
... but why didn't the TARDIS get sucked into the void, it traverced "realitys". AND the Daleks used a Time Lord prison ship... couldn't renegade Time Lords do the same?? It would be nice to see the Master come back but wouldn't be nice to see a new villain who's an imprisoned Time Lord??
The Ice Warriors AND the Master next year! by performingmonkey	Jul 9th, 2006 06:48:53 PM
This is what I hope for anyhow. Apart from the Daleks and Cybes, the Master is the Doctor's other arch-nemesis.
I hope for the sake of you Eric Roberts haters by lynxpro	Jul 9th, 2006 07:08:47 PM
That whenever the production team decides to bring back The Master, they cast Mr. Baron Cohen into the role just for ya'll. That'll teach you to doubt the acting skills of Eric Roberts once and for all.
Sontarans by jasper Stillwell	Jul 9th, 2006 07:46:27 PM
For series three as I hear it...The Master would be fun then maybe we could get some clarity on the demise of the McGann incarnation (with a cameo?) and maybe the Master's role in the time war...c'mon we all know he's not dead! And surely in this parallel Earth that Rose is left in there would parallel doctors and time lords? And Daleks and a Master?
why would these things be in the parallel dimension by aestheticity	Jul 9th, 2006 08:17:34 PM
they only just got cybermen. they had no rose or mobile phones and everyone flew in airships. why would it have daleks or timelords? it might, but the point is its not a copy of our universe and things are different there. it wouldn't 'surely' have anything. ----- and you know what my tip for big bad next season is? pertwee's giant maggots. oh yeah. slipping and sliding around the place, scary as fuck. cant wait.
LOL @ Pertwee's giant maggots by CrispyOne	Jul 9th, 2006 08:41:05 PM

You know who should really be the villains next season by thecomedian	Jul 9th, 2006 09:12:15 PM
THE TIMELORDS. Most of them actually survived and they've been telepathically masking themselves from the Doctor. I say they should bring back the Timelords and take the Doctor back to his roots. An errant Timelord on the run from his own people. This time of course they can be justifiably pissed at him since he could have killed them all. The Doctor's love hate relationship with his own people has always been a staple of Doctor Who. I say bring back Lala Ward as Lady President Romana (same way they brought back Liz Sladen) and have her regenerate into Rosamund Pike. Shit, do a whole season of stories relating to the Timelords in some aspect(similar to the Key to Time). Give us a 3 part Time War flashback story Starring McGann, narrated by Tennant and featuring a cameo by Eccleston at the very end. As for the Master, like I've said before, when we were introduced to the Delgado Master he was already on his last regeneration. So there are 12 other versions of the Master we haven't even me yet. Use one of them or a couple of them since he supposedly wasted all of his regenerations. It would be funny if they did a Willy Cayote bit where he regenerated 3 or 4 times. The thing about the Master is that The Rani is totally right about him. He's got all this genius but essentially he's an idiot because all he really wants to do is plunder, pillage and do that mind control crap on hot chicks.
I think the Ice Warriors were already confirmed... by Col. Klink	Jul 9th, 2006 09:29:32 PM
Didn't one of the press releases on the new companion mention that she would be helping the Doctor fight against the Ice Warriors? I'm pretty sure I read that from a BBC release.
CloneRangerUK I had a lot of the same questions... by Kelvington	Jul 9th, 2006 09:52:21 PM
1. If Pete Tyler was soaked in voidstuff, why wasn't he immediately pulled in to the rift? ---Your right, he should have been starting to get pulled in, but he could have only been there a second or two, so he got in and got out before getting sucked into the void. 2. Come to think of it, how did he know when & where to appear? --- I don't think he did, I think he was just as shocked as anyone to see Rose flying towards him. Call it dumb luck or karma, but I didn't sense a plan on his part. 3. Wasnt there a point where Mickey said that the jump disc (or whatever it was called) only take one one person? If so how could Pete have jumped himself AND Rose back to the paralell earth? Did he have two discs? ---- Indeed he did have a second unit, he had one around his neck and was holding one against her. 4. When the gateway started to fail, why werent there Daleks & Cybermen bouncing off the wall? --- I wondered this two, and even ammended my recap because of it. RTD said that the Cybermen were pulled back to the faults, like the one in Cardiff that run through our world, but it sure looked like they were going up in the air to me. 5. Why did the lever start to fail?--- I think this was just a plot device, perhaps a Dalek bumped it. 6. Why were there only Daleks being pulled through the rift, when you saw Cybermen all around the world being sucked up in the air? --- See Above It was mentiened that the Daleks AND Cybermen would be sent to hell. 7. What about the Cybermen that were created in Torchwood tower? There must have been a fair few made & they hadn't jumped worlds, so wouldn't have been pulled into the void (like poor old CyberYvonne!). --- Couple of thoughts here, if they were completely made from Earth material and nothing that came from the void they should still be here, if they were built from some materials brought by the Cybermen, then they too would get sucked in. 8. Why did Jackie Tyler have to jump to the paralell world? She wasn't soaked in voidstuff, so surley she would have been safe when the doctor had sealed the rift? --- The only reason she went was because Pete was super rich... I mean she was in love with him. 9. Since when can Daleks teleport? (i.e. the Black Dalek)--- Yea, that blew my mind as well, that seemed like a big cheat, but they were part of a secret group, and knew a lot about enemy tactics and tech, so maybe this cult can do that. Someone asked why the TARDIS wasn't pulled back in? I would suspecct that it's immune to such things, running on a black hole and all. Hope that was gentle enough.
Bill Nighy should play The Master. by Yoda's Ball Sack	Jul 9th, 2006 09:58:06 PM
The role needs a different face......
Forget the Master by Capt. Blackadder	Jul 9th, 2006 10:10:35 PM
Bring back Davros. Only bring back the intergalatic hitler version that we see in Genesis of the Daleks, not the washed up wanker that appeared in McCoy era.
Capt. Blackadder by lynxpro	Jul 9th, 2006 10:25:09 PM
Don't refer to Davros as a wanker. He is "the Great Healer" after all. Me thinks he crash landed on Earth in the early 20th Century and somehow took on the name L. Ron Hubbard as well... :) 'Cos you know Tom Cruise is "tall enough" to be a good Dalek.
ALL men should look like David Tennant by nijuki	Jul 10th, 2006 12:56:33 AM
PLEASE!!!! just watched EP13 Doomsday! Fantastic!!!!
Wasn't the Master... by INWOsuxRED	Jul 10th, 2006 12:57:29 AM
essentially sucked into the eye/heart of the TARDIS and trapped there when we last saw him? Because Rose opened the TARDIS up at the end of Series 1, so there is his out.
I have a horrible feeling..... by Sly Fox	Jul 10th, 2006 03:42:45 AM
That RTD would find it terribly funny to bring back The Master as a Slitheen, for example he was brought back in the egg at then end of Boomtown... hopefully copyright people from the BBC will read this and they won't be able to use it!
Season 3 villains? by Johnny Wishbone	Jul 10th, 2006 04:35:31 AM
How about ressurecting the Sontaran/Rutan war? That would be cool. And as for the Time-Lords, forget the Master, he's history There are plenty of other enegade Time-Lords to choose from. How about a young Morbius, before his brain was removed? Or a hot-as-hell regenerated Rani. I personally would like to see a return of the time-meddling Monk; changing history for financial gain Sabalom-Glitz style.
cried my eyes out by ingeh	Jul 10th, 2006 04:46:21 AM
I loved the episode, the daleks pouring out. And as a good girl I cried my eyes out with the ending between rose and the doctor. But I could have done without te bride appearing so sudden.
Brilliant scenes between Piper and the pepperpots ... by Corwin_X2	Jul 10th, 2006 06:42:59 AM
"Five million Cybermen, no problem. But one Doctor? Now you're scared!" (After they've done the equivalent of taking a step backwards in unison at the mention of his name) "Don't you want to know what happened to your precious Emperor?" "The Emperor survived!?!" "He did until he met me!" Outstanding!
INWOsuxRED: I agree about the Master explanation by SpyGuy	Jul 10th, 2006 07:43:15 AM
Only I think that the energy expelled by the Tenth Doctor in "The Christmas Invasion," the energy that we saw going out into space, THAT was the Master. At least, that's how I'd explain it.
What was Boe's big secret then/ by board shitlez	Jul 10th, 2006 09:08:58 AM

What was the Face of Boe's big secret then? by board shitlez	Jul 10th, 2006 09:16:51 AM
Re villains - this Who has to start laying foundations of its own major long-term baddie, not relying on the admitted good vibe of bringing back the oldies. Good to see Dalek's being categorically harder, but i wanted to see a cyberman scoop out the insides of a smashed open dalek. Still, what's not to like? A secret Dalek survival sect lurking between universes and a timelord prison spewing out a million daleks! A dalek threat that one could paste five million cybermen! Nice stuff. And killing Rose would have been horribly bitter, and really negative for younger viewers.
the one plothole I didn't like... by lynxpro	Jul 10th, 2006 09:32:55 AM
How exactly were the Daleks going to open the Genesis Ark if they didn't know that The Doctor and Rose were on Earth at the time? Nobody else on the planet presumably would have the "radiation" of a time traveler to extract to power the sucker.
RE: the one plothole I didn't like... by Johnny Wishbone	Jul 10th, 2006 10:01:30 AM
Any one of the Doctor's previous companions would have worked I guess.
Daleks from Hell by SpikeTBB	Jul 10th, 2006 10:51:07 AM
Daleks have a skill for surviving and adapting. Cybermen were created out of adaptation and adding upgrades to themselves. I wonder what sort of Hell Dalek or Cybermen with Demonic Upgrades might emerge if they manage to get the doorway open again. In the meantime, the must be an intereting power struggle going on in Hell between the previous occupents and the new arrivals. Reminds me of that trite saying "Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over." I love the idea of the Daleks getting Time Lord tech from The Master. I'd love to see him return and changed from the vortex experince. Maybe he could have overcome the flaws Rani mocked him for. I want The Master to be a bad ass genius with a sadistic side a mile long. not a petty time thief. DAVROS! Bring back Davros as his original calm ,cold blooded then suddenly meglomanical shouting self, like the previous poster suggested. It's his sociopathic brain the Dalek mind originated from, after all.
The Ending by der kaiser	Jul 10th, 2006 11:06:27 AM
Given Last seasons ending it would have been difficult to top that. I think the series needs to leave earth and look onto different planets/times. The real baddie I am looking forward to seeing is "The Master" I have heard a rumour that this part will be played by a certain actor connected with a pirates film.
Bill Nighy as The Master? by Col. Klink	Jul 10th, 2006 11:19:48 AM
Old rumor.
Plot hole by ROBE	Jul 10th, 2006 11:33:15 AM
Well the globe did only open after the Doctor and Rose visited it, so maybe it would automatically start to open once time travellers came near it?
Master idea by matt_bern	Jul 10th, 2006 12:10:57 PM
Ok... this is totally fan boy, but what about Eccelson for the Master? If they ever decided to return to "Pete's Universe," imagine a scenario where Rose has connected with what she thinks to be that universe's Doctor (Eccelson) and yet it turns out to be the Master. Granted, it's back to the well one more time on the Alternate Universe, but it would be wonderful to see Eccelson as a villian (and one hell of a personal affront to the Doctor).
"A certain actor connected with a pirate film." by SpyGuy	Jul 10th, 2006 12:30:14 PM
Sorry, but Jonathan Pryce already was the Master in DOCTOR WHO AND THE CURSE OF FATAL DEATH. What about that Michael Fassbender dude from HEX?
Possible ideas by kneesydoesit	Jul 10th, 2006 01:46:52 PM
Would love to see Sontarans v Ice Warriors in an intergalatic battle setting - The Sontarans were a warrior race who routinely conquered worlds, whilst the Ice warriors were more limited to our solar system when we saw them, but were suposed to return in the cancelled colin baker series as galactic conquerers. Have their empires clash - works for me. As for the Master, Delgado wasn't actually referred to as the last regeneration, the rotting version was, and he gained the ability to occupy another body. I'd love to see Paul Darrow (Blake's seven's Avon)in the role myself. As for the monk meddling for personal gain, the books had that a decade ago, calling him "Mortimus", but it'd probably still work. There's still a whole lot to go back to...draconians, rutans, silurians, sontarans, sea devils, Yeti, Sensorites, Time Lords, Omega, Sil, "our" cybermen, Fenric, Sutekh, Ice Warriors...Plus I'd love to see a ticked off adric as the new big bad - rescued by the timelords and looking for revenge on the doctor who abandoned him (recast with someone who can act, obviously)
Stephen Fry should be the Master. by Yoda's Ball Sack	Jul 10th, 2006 03:57:18 PM
You'll never guess what happend to me Bertie........
"I was there at the fall of Arcadia" by Corwin_X2	Jul 10th, 2006 05:36:30 PM
"How did you survive the Time War?" / "By fighting ... on the front line. I was there at the fall of Arcadia. Someday I might even come to terms with that." --- I appreciate the producers' need to keep teasing us. But that line cries out the the heavens for them to spend half of next season's FX budget giving us a flashback!
the only "actor" I want moving from Hex to Who is... by lynxpro	Jul 10th, 2006 07:27:45 PM
Jemima Rooper...
Mmmh. Geek bliss. by SpacePhil	Jul 10th, 2006 07:59:00 PM
Well, you're right, things were predictable - but that swarm of Daleks moving across the skies of London? That, my friends, is quality. The Cybermen and Daleks rumble; the "Time Lord technology" - yeah, we all knew Rose wasn't going to die - though they might've done something with the whole "sucked into hell" thing - but then again? I don't think all of this is over. I also don't think the two universes are locked off for good. This second season doesn't feel like an end. It feels like "Empire" - an in-between thing. Looking forward to next season - Phil.
Re: Plot hole by INWOsuxRED	Jul 10th, 2006 09:47:19 PM
I was under the impression the Daleks were able to come through the voide because of Torchwood, so they had no choice as to where they arrived. You know the four Daleks would have eventually found someone in the universe that traveled through time, and the odds are someone opening up the void would be a likely place to find such a creature.
Re: Plot hole - Plus... by SpacePhil	Jul 11th, 2006 12:10:56 AM
Plus, if you wanted to be technical about it, the four Daleks could have just hunted down Sarah Jane Smith or one of the other companions. How much would that suck? Doorbell rings, you answer - "EXTERMINATE!" "Crap." I've had weekends like that.
(Call yourselves fans?!) Plot Holes Answered Within by WiseJoeyD	Jul 11th, 2006 03:47:17 AM
Right two ones here; Pete was holding a second trans-universe device when he caught Rose, so he doesn't violate the "law" that only one device can transport one person. Secondly, the Daleks plan to open the Ark? The Doctor clearly thanks Mickey because, if he hadn't opened it, the Daleks would have "blown up the sun" to open it. So there you go. And you call yourselves fans?! (only joking!!) The only things not explained is why Pete knew to teleport there to catch Rose, and why he wasnt affected by the Whopping Great Void 4 ft behind him but as I earlier posted I put that down to directorial shortcomings and not a story problem. They could easily have played it differently (mention a thing or two on that in an earlier post). They could even have shown him earlier looking contemplativly at the trans-uni device to at least setup his sudden seemingly unexplained apperance; hint that he was going to go back but wasn't sure about it.... then shows up at just the right moment. Better than sudden random appearance
Johnny Wishbone is a RACIST by The Awfulism	Jul 11th, 2006 07:57:34 AM
Sorry, I meant RAPIST.
It was fun . . . but by ChicagoRonin	Jul 11th, 2006 09:35:31 AM
After "Doomsday," I'm really hoping for an end to seeing any returning monsters or villains from the classic series. Not that I've not enjoyed what I've seen thus far (and I thought "Rise of the Cybermen"/"The Age of Steel" were very entertaining, albeit unoriginal), but the best episodes of both new and old Who were the ones that introduced great new menaces. It's that sense of the unknown; the inexplicable threat. Series 2's finale was amazing, but I still don't think it had the sense of mystery and menace of last season's "The Empty Child"/"The Doctor Dances".
Eric Roberts . . . by der kaiser	Jul 11th, 2006 12:11:24 PM
. . . Is set to reprise his role as "The Master" Seriously though I would love to see how Johnny Depp would handle "The Master"
I Missed It. by IAmMrMonkey	Jul 11th, 2006 12:33:01 PM
I was ill and slept straight through the ****ing episode. I now hate all of you for seeing it and I hate the BBC for making me buy the DVD. Ah well.
der kaiser by lynxpro	Jul 11th, 2006 03:42:36 PM
How exactly would the BBC be able to afford to pay Johnny Depp's salary these days to play the role of The Master? Roberts is more affordable. It should be noted that both actors have been Academy nominated.
"Eric Roberts is set to reprise his role as The Master" by Col. Klink	Jul 11th, 2006 11:25:07 PM
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHA!!!

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DOOMSDAY!! Five Reviews of The 28th DOCTOR WHO Season Finale!!

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