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Alexandra DuPont Un-Retires To Review The SITH DVD!!

She sounds hot.. by dork	Oct 31st, 2005 04:07:17 AM
Movie was kinda lukewarm..
And oh yeah.. by dork	Oct 31st, 2005 04:08:34 AM
First, premo, nummer een!
I watched the dvd last week..... by OriginalThinker	Oct 31st, 2005 04:13:35 AM
The movie has so many problems I just cant get into it no matter how many times I try (and believe me, its a lot). The deleted scenes suck. Saying that, I did love the making of docu's. Especially "Within a minute."
I'll wait for the MagnoliaFan edit to see if he can make thi by Regicidal_Maniac	Oct 31st, 2005 04:16:08 AM
I also have hope for the Star Wars tv series to be filmed here at Fox Sydney next year.
YAY! Alex is back! by RodneyOz	Oct 31st, 2005 04:19:27 AM
Even if only for a one-off.
probably the best review I've read on this site by Colonel_Blimp	Oct 31st, 2005 04:27:33 AM
nice work, ma'am! I cant wait to see the movie again. of course i'll have to, as the dvd doesnt com out for another week here in provincial norway. blah!
Dupont by Indiana Clones	Oct 31st, 2005 04:41:02 AM
TPM and AOTC were awesome. Probably better than ROTS. Go fuck yourself.
THe review was good, but the font and background killed my eyes by zekmoe	Oct 31st, 2005 04:48:54 AM
There's a reason books are black lettering on white paper. So you can read them without squinting. 86 the terrible HTML101 page look, and make the pages readable. CNN style or something like that. Anyway, I'll get this DVD tomorrow, and test it on my system. I bet it will be state of the dvd art, which is to say, not as good as it used to be, now that HD is here. ( I saw Shrek 2 in HD the other day, and it destroyed the DVD, so much so that the otherwise exceptional DVD looked like a VHS tape. Remember VHS?)
Indiana Clone... by cagirl	Oct 31st, 2005 04:58:25 AM
I'd tell you to go fuck YOURself but it appears it's already a hobby of yours. Have an opinion, great, no need to be a cockwad towards people when expressing it. I liked TPM and ROTS much better than AOTC. Clones was almost all CGI eyecandy with very little actual logical plot. See Indiana? We can express our opinions with being jack asses...maybe YOU can't, who knows.
What by Elkatak	Oct 31st, 2005 05:16:32 AM

She's still got it! Another great review from DuPont. by L.H.Puttgrass	Oct 31st, 2005 05:44:01 AM
It's not a perfect film. It suffers from many of the problems of the first two prequels. But it does get the job done that needed to be done. It connects the prequels to the originals. And it does so fairly well. I'd rate it even with Jedi instead of a little bit above it. And yeah, she's probably right, I put it even with Jedi because I'm still pissed at the first two prequels. It's my grudge. And I'll hold it as long as I wanna.
Let me get this straight... by Gilkuliehe	Oct 31st, 2005 06:02:42 AM
She is not only a GIRL, but she's also HOT??? And she gets to like STAR WARS? And shows a GREAT knowledge not only about this particular franchise but films in general, irrelevant trivia and DVD culture??? I don't buy it. I still get turned on by her, but she's probably a grown up, fat hairy geek with a small lifeless penis sitting between his legs while he slowly assassinates the sofa under his weight.
"Can someone explain to me why Palpatine is kind of voluntarily by Trazadone	Oct 31st, 2005 06:32:35 AM
Uh, wasn't he trying to convince Anakin that Mace was duplicituous? In this fight wasn't he making it appear that Mace was killing him in order to push Anakin over the the dark side once and for all? I thought the self-infliction of energy bolts was supposed to look like Mace was winning the battle and the energy was being forced back onto Palpatine.
One thing I find really dissapointing... by TheGas	Oct 31st, 2005 06:45:11 AM
...they didn't include, not even in massively unfinished form, the scene where Yoda converses with Qui-Gon's Force-ghost. It's adapted in the novel, and after reading it, I can't for the life of me understand why it's not in the film; it's quite possibly the most important moment in establishing an understanding of what the prophecy really meant, and through that, what Lucas is trying to say about religion vs spirituality.
Re: vonBlumpky's "The better parts of Revenge Of The Sith ha by Colonel_Blimp	Oct 31st, 2005 06:49:57 AM
So you just rehash all the rots bashing we've heard ad nauseam since may instead. How creative and innovative. What an eye opener. You made me reconsider the entire film, baron. (parts of my sentences above may be interpreted ironically)... btw, after plagieus (sp?) had taught his apprentice (palpatine) everything he knew, palpatine killed him. its implied that palpy, not plagieus, made anakin. and it is only implied, never spelled out. pay attention boy.
the gas, by Colonel_Blimp	Oct 31st, 2005 06:51:20 AM
is it possible to get a short recap of that conversation, or a link to a transcript of it?
Trazadone, yeah, the lightning was being reflected back onto him by Monkey Butler	Oct 31st, 2005 06:56:20 AM
So why didn't he just stop electrocuting himself? Anakin was already gonna turn against Windu, it really didn't require Palpatine to almost kill himself. And as Machiavellian as he was, Palpatine wouldn't have risked his own life just to recruit an apprentice.
Palpy by DocPazuzu	Oct 31st, 2005 07:15:40 AM
The way I see it, Palpatine was MUCH older than he first appeared. He hadn't mastered immortality but certainly knew how to prolong his life unnaturally. As the years progressed, more and more energy was required to maintain his somewhat youthful outward appearance, not to mention disguising his telltale yellow eyes. In fighting Windu, he had to use all his skills and thus relinquish his holding off of the physical ravages of age and Dark Side "mutation". I personally don't think he was ever in any physical danger from Windu and merely pretended to be at his mercy and drained in order to win Anakin's sympathy. It echoes nicely in ROTJ when Vader heeds the same call from his son and in the process thwarts Palpatine's plans, by poetically heeding his own inner, albeit long dormant, sense of mercy - a "flaw" which Palpatine himself used for his own designs two decades earlier. Also, how could Force lightning color his eyes yellow? In addition, remember how swiftly Palpy "recovered" from supposedly being at death's door. It was a big fake-out on Palp's part, and allowed him to drop his disguise while blaming the hideous "scarring" on the Jedi.
Lost The Will To Live by Sean38	Oct 31st, 2005 07:19:05 AM
One moment she our esteemed reviewer didn't touch on was Padme's simply, "losing the will to live." She just had TWINS and she lost the will to live? And who can die from that anyway? You can't just decide to die. To me, that entire scene was Lucas not having the guts to say that she died from the fact that Anakin choked her. You want him to FULLY turn to evil with NO turning back, have him be responsible for his wife's death. This, to me, was the single biggest misstep of Episode III, marring an otherwise pretty decent flick.
Why I WISH I loved ROTS by McBane	Oct 31st, 2005 07:25:31 AM
The worst thing for me about ROTS, is that the ideas within it could have made it a truly great Star Wars. Alexandra makes some great points. In fact I agree with almost everything she says. However, I feel that many Star Wars fans are so willing to embrace ROTS, because of the huge problems with TPM and AOTC. They wanted to like at least one of the films within the trilogy so much, that ROTS would have been hailed as some kind of success even if it had been considerably worse than the other two. I have been wrestling with an idea that has disturbed me since I saw AOTC. Was Star Wars always overblown crap that I as a child elevated to a level it doesn't deserve? Upon rewatching the original trilogy, I believe that is not the case. It has good pacing and still works, even today. And that's in spite of dodgy dialogue, awful acting and idiotic ideas. [Wookies replaced by EWOKS??] Which leads me to speculate on the reasons why the new trilogy has failed to satisfy me. I believe this to be as a result of a number of things. 1. George Lucas' boredom of Star Wars as a whole. Irrespective of the amount of money it has made him, its success has been the millstone round his neck. You get the feeling that he never wanted to devote a large portion of his life to it. 3. As a result of GL's disinterest combined with his power over the franchise, he started to concentrate on cool ideas and technology, rather than film structure and watchable characters. You can almost see him rushing through the filming of the Prequel trilogy so he could get to the pre-production. Digital Effects and new Cimematic processes meant more to him than a believable charcater interactions. [Whenever Padme and Anakin are on screen, I see the studio, the green screen and GL off camera, no matter how good ILM's effects are.] 3. GL's power has also meant he has surrounded himself with yes men. ALL good films are a collabrative effort. No one person can solely make a film great. Though a director's vision is usually the starting point. I believe if GL had pushed his ego to one side and allowed someone else to write and direct the film, while giving them some autonomy, the prequel trilogy would have been vastly superior. I guess the whole point of this overblown post is that I am not a hater. I love Star Wars. I love the ideas of the new trilogy. As Alexandra pointed out, there are many subtle moments between the Chancellor and Anakin that almost excuse many of the worst moments of the last three films. Maybe I am just not a big enough FAN. I can't excuse the fact that when I watch ROTS, I can't fully immerse myself in the world. And maybe that says more about me than what I perceive the state of the new trilogy to be.
The Yoda/Qui-Gon exchange from the novel, since Colonel_Blimp as by TheGas	Oct 31st, 2005 08:01:38 AM
"My failure, this was. Failed the Jedi, I did." ******* He spoke to the Force. ***** And the Force answered him. Do not blame yourself, my old friend. ***** As it sometimes had these past thirteen years, when the Force spoke to him, it spoke in the voice of Qui-Gon Jinn. ******* "Too old I was," Yoda said. "Too rigid. Too arrogant to see that the old way is not the only way. These Jedi, I trained to become the Jedi who had trained me, long centuries ago
Monkey Butler, I agree by Trazadone	Oct 31st, 2005 08:03:48 AM
I'm just trying to explain the intent of the scene, whether or not the logic makes sense is a different story!
Nah, its still shit. by cockknocker	Oct 31st, 2005 08:03:57 AM
But again i really wish it wasnt. In fact i think it might be classed as the worst of the prequels as it so gloriously fucks up the most important parts of the star wars tale.
Regarding one of BaronVonBlumpky's nitpicks... by TheGas	Oct 31st, 2005 08:16:26 AM
I would imagine the "Coruscant FD" ships didn't put much effort into putting out the Jedi Temple blaze (if they were even there at all, which I don't remember seeing) beacause they were, y'know, INSTRUCTED NOT TO BY PALPATINE. I mean, really, they've been declared enemies of the state, that Palp would want to let their HQ burn to the ground is just basic logic.
www.gestaltrecords.co.uk by board shitlez	Oct 31st, 2005 08:17:14 AM
Does Leia in the old films say she remembers her mum, or is someone I know fibbing? Was it cut out of special editions? www.gestaltrecords.co.uk
"final Force fuck-you" by 24200124	Oct 31st, 2005 08:28:40 AM
Say that six times fast. Not entirely a tongue-twister, just something fun to say six times fast. Unretire permanently, Ms. DuPont! We like ya here...
review font by Dark Vapor	Oct 31st, 2005 08:29:21 AM
just highlight it and read it or dont you bunch of fuckin' pussies.
My problems with Sith... by hidden_shallows	Oct 31st, 2005 08:31:14 AM
...are that I didn't really understand how come all those Jedi, who were so strong in the force, managed to get taken so easily and shot in the back. Also, how come Darth Vader remained so short. I thought they were gonna explain it by having him receive longer robot legs, but even after he'd had them he was still Christensen sized.
waah WAAAAAAH! by Dolmes	Oct 31st, 2005 08:38:48 AM
I have no response to that.
Great review... by Aeglos Istarion	Oct 31st, 2005 08:50:25 AM
... for an apologist.
Death Star by Tenenbaum	Oct 31st, 2005 08:53:50 AM
Did the Death Star have hyperspace capabilities?
Tenenbaum by DocPazuzu	Oct 31st, 2005 08:58:19 AM
It had to, otherwise it would take hundreds of thousands and millions of years to roam from system to system enforcing Imperial law.
Anyone have a link to a picture of Alexandra? by Mahaloth	Oct 31st, 2005 09:05:46 AM
?
She's a MAN, baby... by Karl Hungus	Oct 31st, 2005 09:07:42 AM
And yes, the Death Star would have to have hyperspace capabilities in order to travel the massive expanses of space required to make it the threat that it clearly was.
by silverdog	Oct 31st, 2005 09:09:03 AM
Episode III was a baaaad movie with 2 brilliant action sequences...not enough to run for the DVD.
What? No LOTR References Yet? Please: Allow Me. by www.valiens.com	Oct 31st, 2005 09:09:24 AM
I will watch every glorious, shitty flaw that comes with ROTS before I watch the beautiuful, sweeping grandure that is five thousand slow motion shots, which comprise about an hour of the LOTR trilogy, of a Hobbit hand opening up to reveal a fucking useless ring that does nothing but turn the owner/addict invisible to everyone but the evil force looking for it. Plus, Enya. Eat it. Lightsabers rule.
Nothing is bad about liking the SW prequels. So FUCK U if you di by Orionsangels	Oct 31st, 2005 09:34:43 AM
don't drag me down to your lucas bashing world. SW forever!!!!!
I believe DuPont is a woman. by rev_skarekroe	Oct 31st, 2005 09:35:12 AM
But that she probably looks a lot like Andrea Dworkin.
I should have known , Alexandra DuPont, was plotting to take ove by Orionsangels	Oct 31st, 2005 09:38:25 AM
Alexandra DuPont is a saint! Well from my point of view Alexandra DuPont is evil. But duh, i have the high ground. you can't beat me, durrr. I kid, but i do love SW and wanna watch ROTS cuddled with Alexandra DuPont on the love sofa.
I'm buying ROTS tomorrow, but i can't even watch it by Orionsangels	Oct 31st, 2005 09:40:43 AM
We still have no power thanks to fuckin Wilma! i'm stayin at my sisters.
Here's the deal with all of that "Tragedy of Darth Vader" bu by don_gately	Oct 31st, 2005 09:41:22 AM
.....I just don't give a fuck. I mean, by most accounts Dick Cheney was a pretty decent guy when younger. Would his turn to the Dark Side fly as an epic tale, loved by millions? George has lived with the character of Anakin/DV so long that he forgets that the eps. 4-6 curdled any sympathy that thinking viewers may have felt for the man. How would the millions on Alderaan feel about it, or the countless billions of subjects to the Empire who lived with Palpatine's boot at their neck for decades? The most horrifying, laughable and misguided image in the entire corpus of Star Wars films is Anakin, Kenobi and Yoda at the end of Jedi, smiling from their post-death residence within the warm, fuzzy confines of the Force. The guy takes part in the slaughter of probably hundreds of millions of beings and yet because he has a crisis of conscience in his last five minutes gets to spend the afterlife in the Happy Place? The fuck is that? My problem with the last three films wasn't with the emphasis of technological marvels over story, clumsy explication or cringe-inducing dialogue (almost wet my pants laughing at "around the survivors a perimiter create," and was literally threatened with harm by some brainwashed putz in front of me). No, the contract breaker for me is that I watched every second of eps. 1-3 with the knowledge of the misery this single man's moral struggle would bring to that galaxy far, far away. Now again, picture our Vice-President screaming in agony, wreathed in flame at the moment he finally sold out his ideals for personal power. Do you care?
The Empire... by Billyeveryteen	Oct 31st, 2005 09:48:35 AM
Most of my life, I have feared and respected the Empire. The Death Star IS badass, Vader was a murdring prick, and Lord did they have numbers. I guess I also feared the Sith. I mean evil Jedis? Force Lightning? That should be scary.... Turns out, they are just backstabbing cowards, taking advantage of the Jedi's ego and laziness. For what, not even 20 years rule? Pussies. I am... ashamed.
Dildo Faggins: Too true. by Some Dude	Oct 31st, 2005 09:55:13 AM
I can't believe how many people complain about Vader's redemption while at the same time being Christians. Why hold fiction to more logic than one holds for reality?
This is all bullshit. by Fitzcarraldo2	Oct 31st, 2005 10:06:12 AM
All of the new SW films, Sith included, were heartless, empty spectacle. When you don't care about the characters then what is the point? Much of the script, dialogue and acting was dire, not just not especially good but embarassingly bad, disgracefully bad, insultingly bad. Face it.
It's not "democracy ends" stupid it's liberty dies! by spidermanfreak20	Oct 31st, 2005 10:08:10 AM
Honestly Padme never says "So this is how democracy ends." She says "SO THIS IS HOW LIBERTY DIES!"Get your qoutes right you twat! You and Harry keep misqouting her.
i will probably rent or end up buying this on wednesday or somet by jig98	Oct 31st, 2005 10:15:11 AM
it took me 2 fucking weeks to see this "ending" because of fucking madagascar, senior outing and into the woods.
This reviewer has diarrhea of the hands...... by Mel Garga	Oct 31st, 2005 10:24:56 AM
and it's Kashyyyk, not Kashyyk.
Author's gender by Kara Zor-El	Oct 31st, 2005 10:26:49 AM
Words: 4643 (NOTE: The genie works best on texts of more than 500 words.) Female Score: 5911 Male Score: 9947 The Gender Genie thinks the author of this passage is: male!
thanks theGas, by Colonel_Blimp	Oct 31st, 2005 10:34:39 AM
that explains a lot, though it's not strictly necessary for the plot. and it sort of explains why anakin was able to manifest himself at the end of rotj, because he redeemed himself (and brought balance to the force). Yippeee! I love star wars!!!!!!!
I watched the DVD last week as well by zer0cool2k2	Oct 31st, 2005 10:35:44 AM
and was disappointed to find the "Noooooo" wail still intact, and no deleted Qui-Gon scene. (I still sat the only redeeming factor for the existence of Episode I is establishing the character of Qui-gon Jinn). however, I thought the deleted scenes, boring as they might have been, did kind of help establish Padme's leanings away from the established government, and in effect, her estrangement from Anakin. And the Dagobah scene was just cool. My biggest issue was with how simple Anakin's turn seemed onscreen. A few more scenes could have really helped explain his turmoil. (The novelization makes it all seem much more beleiveable, but of course it's easier to show what someone is thinking/feeling on the printed page). Still, I'll buy the damn thing tomorrow, and probably again in a year or so when the super ultimate 6 pack box set is released. and I'll probably buy them all again when they are rereleased after the 20th anniversary special edition theatrical run of Episodes I-III.
I know how you feel don_gately by white owl	Oct 31st, 2005 10:36:26 AM
My childhood was in the 90s so Star Wars never immediately came into existence for me, it was always around. I grew up on the VHS tapes and my love for Darth Vader and all things Empire was insane, almost maniacal. I always wanted to be the guy controlling the evil masses from his ultimate death station. I always had the idea that the Empire was just that, like a sort of dynasty that had lasted for ages, like the Sith of the Old Republic. Then these prequels come along and introduce me to this puppy-loving podracing twit that was Anakin, crying over his mommy for the first two episodes. That is no Darth Vader to me! That is no leader(or co-leader whatever) of the most deadly force known to galaxykind! I too am ashamed! What happened to the old Darth Vader I grew up to love? He's been pussified by these prequels that I can no longer bare to watch.
Apparently, Dupont is like Dracula. When you think you have bee by LordEnigma	Oct 31st, 2005 11:42:18 AM
Wow. Another ignorant person talking crap about Star Wars. How she can be so verbose, but totally ignorant of the story structure of Star Wars. Dupont, please, exit stage left, and thank you but do not come again.
Was ROTS really that great or... by Silver Shamrock	Oct 31st, 2005 11:42:22 AM
were our standards systematically lowered by TPM and AOTC? G-Lu didn't raise the bar, he lowered the bar down through the floor with each installment so I can't cream my jeans over Rots.
Seems that people are a lot quieter in their adoration of ROTS t by McBane	Oct 31st, 2005 11:55:24 AM
I remember all the fans busting nuts over how great ROTS was. Or maybe the haters just get up earlier to post on AICN.
Here's the definitive argument, folks by darthflagg	Oct 31st, 2005 12:00:30 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again . . . if you don't enjoy ROTS, you're a wanker. There are only three things wrong with the movie: Ian McDiarmid's overacting in the transformation scene (the rest of his performance is brill, of course), Vader's infamous "Nooooo!" (nuff said), and the fact that the ending was so rushed (if Peter Jackson can stretch King Kong to three hours, Episode III should easily have been the same length). Ok, the hairbrush scene was kind of embarrassing too, but that's how young people in love talk! Other than those minor flaws, it's a great Star Wars film. If there hadn't been so much hatred generated by the major flaws of the other prequels (and, let's be honest, ROTJ) it would have been recognised by everyone as the triumph it is. Case closed, you can all stop whining now.
Darthflagg - Case NOT closed by McBane	Oct 31st, 2005 12:07:45 PM
What about the rather embarassing buddy introduction scdene that just comes off flat? Making the Bad-Ass General Grievous a coughing pussy? The 'Epic' destruction of the Jedi reduced to a few Jedis shot in the back and some younglings being massacred off screen? The entire FILM seemed rushed. And had crap pacing just like the other two prequels.
I'm sure if there's a Qui-Gon Deleted Scene It'll Sh by www.valiens.com	Oct 31st, 2005 12:07:53 PM
But was there such a scene? They would have had to hire what's-his-face to play the part. Did they?
The film was average at best by MontyPigeon	Oct 31st, 2005 12:16:45 PM
The rot set in with the unbearable Phantom Menace since then it was dead in the water. The television series might work but does anybody really care. Star Wars is going the way of Star Trek, the prequels should never have been made. Nearly everything is wrong with the first two prequels and if this was anything but Star Wars, they would be laughed off the face of this earth. Lucas screwed it up when others would have fared better.
My biggest problem..... by Hairy Nutsack	Oct 31st, 2005 12:19:00 PM
I really liked most of ROTS, but I found Anakin's "descent" to the darkside utterly unrealistic and ridiculous. Anakin walks out of Palpy's office in full belief that the Jedi are out to overthrow the government and he is intensely motivated to help Palpy stop the Jedi coup because he and Palpy will figure out the eternal life thing together. Fine, all of that makes sense so far. Anakin believes the Jedi are in fact the evil ones, and he loves his wife and unborn children intensely. Fantastic, Anakin is a perfectly normal person. Loves his government, loves his wife. So where exactly is the "fall"? How does being a patriot and good husband turn into murdering children in the Jedi temple? This is where ROTS completely loses me. Anakin's first evil act was murdering children because he is motivated by saving the lives of his own children? WTF? Again, where is the fall? Where is the descent into evil and madness? How about a series of evil acts that would culminate in the murdering of children? Nope, let's just jump straight to the baby slaughtering. Makes no sense.
Is this AICN's way of being an apologist? by IAmLegolas	Oct 31st, 2005 12:23:39 PM
Let's see what everyone thinks of them in 5-10 years when everyone's got an objective head on their shoulders. Well, besides those with a fanatical devotion, that is. Have they made Star Wars coffins yet?
A mistake in the review by mjbok1	Oct 31st, 2005 12:29:50 PM
I have seen this posted a bunch of places, but Jar Jar does speak. He says "Excuse me" or something very similar on the landing platform. A minor quibble, but I have seen that he has no dialogue posted everywhere, which just isn't correct.
Star Wars Haters by Doc_Strange	Oct 31st, 2005 12:39:30 PM
Come out and PLAY-YAY!!!!!! FUCK YOU ALL!!
This would be a great DVD, if it didn't come with REVENGE OF by filker-tom	Oct 31st, 2005 12:40:44 PM
I am still flabbergasted that anyone thinks this lame, pretentious crapfest is worth buying. I LOVE the Original Trilogy. I suffered through Episode I, I found nuggets of goodness in Episode II, but Episode III committed that very worst of cinematic crimes: It was dull. Predictable, hackneyed even, badly written and badly acted and badly directed. I re-watch the OT. I re-watch LOTR. I re-watch THE INCREDIBLES, GALAXY QUEST, the Harry Potter films, CROUCHING TIGER, THE WIZARD OF OZ, CHITTY CHITTY BANG BANG, BATMAN BEGINS -- hell, I even re-watch BATMAN AND ROBIN, one of the worst (and most entertaining, if you're in the mood for Grade A MST3K cheese) films of all time. I saw Ep III once. That was once too many. I don't need this DVD. NO ONE needs this DVD. Get BATMAN BEGINS or AMERICAN GOTHIC or put the money toward LOONEY TOONS GOLDEN COLLECTION Vol. 3. Give the money to the poor. Buy the pizza for the next gaming session. Anything but more cash for Lucas. He has proved himself to be at best an average filmmaker and someone who cannot tolerate anything but yes-men. This shows in the Prequel Trilogy, when, through any number of lousy ideas from Jar Jar to Padme's costume changes to Anakin's virgin birth to leaving Shmee a slave on Tatooine to the Windu Through The Window scene to a gazillion horrifically bad lines of dialogue, no one said, "Uh, George, that idea really bites".
The problems come from Lucas's director and writer credits! by performingmonkey	Oct 31st, 2005 12:54:16 PM
Lucas was tired of Star Wars before he even picked up his pen for the TPM screenplay. He only really had any enthusiasm for A New Hope. He had in his mind exactly what he wanted to do, which was to create a space opera hugely influenced by the old '30s serials. His original idea of 9 movies shows the extent of his enthusiasm for the project at that time. However, the success of Star Wars fucked him up, and it became a millstone. The Empire Strikes back is so good because Lucas didn't write or direct it BUT the best of his original ideas made it into the movie. Unfortunately things went wrong with ROTJ, apart from the showdown with Vader, Luke and the Emperor. The problems with ROTJ are largely down to the uber-success of the Star Wars 'franchise' which it had now become. All of a sudden everything had to be kiddie-friendly and Muppet-like. The Emperor showdown is what was left from Lucas's original outline of his Star Wars story, which is why it is great. Now, the biggest mistake George made was going back to directing after 20 years for the prequels. How could he possibly helm such a massive project without things losing focus? He should have had the same role as he had on the Indy movies, and left far more talented people to write and direct. THEN the prequels would NOT have sucked. Lucas was tired of Star Wars before he even picked up his pen for the TPM screenplay. The prequel trilogy has been produced with WAY WAY too much focus on the whole 'franchise' element, sucking up to fans and making back lost money. Also, it's been too much about the technology. The fact that Lucas cannot direct actors was only addressed on ROTS, but even then it was too late. They still had Lucas's stale, lame script to work with. Also, the casting of Padme and Anakin (both 10 and 20 year old versions) sucked. Palpatine turning into the Emperor was a complete joke. He had more menace in his little finger in ROTJ, where he was already a pretty campy villain. In ROTS he was a joke. Just IMAGINE what a truly great director could have done with ROTS!
The Qui-Gon ending was the biggest WTF moment in the film. by cookylamoo	Oct 31st, 2005 01:17:06 PM
It pretty much eclipses everything else. "While you've all been fighting for power, I discovered the secret of immortality. Bwah Ha Ha. I also invented Ice Cream."
The reason I dislike ROTS so much... by Childe Roland	Oct 31st, 2005 01:27:32 PM
...is because it was so close to being a good movie. Perhaps even great. Instead it does a half-assed job of telling a story we all know the ending to. I don't hold the rushed/forced pacing against it (because then you have to look at the ridiculous way the entire prequel trilogy was paced and wonder why all of the first film wasn't handled in about 15 minutes of flashback and the second film tightened up to comprise the rest of movie 1, then you could've spread out the important stuff in Sith over two movies). The things that were wrong with Sith as it currently exists are: 1.) The dialogue was atrocious. The performances, by and large, were actually better than they had been in previous prequels (with one notable exception), but even talented actors couldn't make the shit written for them work. Much less... 2.) Hayden Christensen. This kid just can't act. He's like Keanu Reeves but without the virtue of a limited vocabulary. He said every fucking thing his character was supposed to be thinking and feeling instead of trying to convey it through body language or facial expression or the tone of his voice. "I am angry now!" "I hate you!" "Annie SMASH!" Casting this kid as what should have been one of the most tragically complex-yet-simple characters since MacBeth was a huge fucking mistake. Almost as bad as... 3.) The motivation for Anakin's ultimate turn being so nonsensical. He's having nightmares that his wife is going to die. He talks to his buddy/boss/mentor Palpy (who we've already seen take a keen interst in his career and in him as a person) about it and Palpy concocts these elaborate lies about knowing a secret to cheat death and being the victim of a Jedi plot - all to get Annie to feel loyalty, kinship and sympathy for him against the Jedi. But Annie already feels all those things (we know that because Hayden has been saying exactly what his character is feeling since the second movie as if he has some weird form of Tourette's). Why bother with the elaborate seduction when Anakin is already so clearly mistrusting of the Jedi and protective of Palpy? Especially when the perfect motivation was right there for the taking: Jealousy. Anakin had hinted at flashed of jealousy over Obi Wan's relationship with Padme in the previous movies. He was clearly jealous of Obi Wan here as well (because, again, he said so). How hard would it have been to have him express this unfounded concern to Palpy and have Palpy feed this beast? Jealousy makes people do stupid shit. And it would have been totally believable given the creepy/stalkerish way the Annie/Padme love "blossomed." Hell, I'd even go a step further and have Annie's jealousy be justified. We've already established that Obi Wan eventually becomes one of the lyingest, most manipulative, self-serving S.O.B.s in the galaxy (just look at the way he carefully loads Luke like a weapon and points him at his own father over the course of the next three films), so why wouldn't he have tried to bust a Jedi love trick on that fine piece of royal ass? How beautifully fucking Arthurian would that have been? And it would have provided the perfect motivation for Annie to Force choke his wife (the injuries from that being what ultimately lead to her death) and to go after Obi Wan. Then the Jedi who were NOT all busy with the Clone Wars could have tried to stop Annie from killing Obi Wan and been slaughtered in the process (you could still have Palpy orxer the clones to slaughter the Jedi in the field, but at least Anakin/Vader would have some real Jedi Knight blood on his hands). This could also explain why Anakin would've been tired and careless enough to let Obi beat him at the end. But NOOOO. Instead they play out that whole stupid Mace/Palpy charade and, because Anakin cuts off Mace's hand and sets him up for Palpy to kill, he doesn't think it's a big deal to graduate to slaughtering a temple full of Jedi kids?!?! And to make matters worse, he comes to this conclusion after Palpy has revealed he really doesn't know how to save Padme.?!?! How FUCKING STUPID is that plotting? How easy would it have been to change? How much better would the resulting movie have been? Hence, ROTS is the single biggest disappointment of any of the Star Wars movies (with the possible exception of ROTJ because, as noted, Ewoks suck). I think a talented editor with the right equipment could recut and redub ROTS into a decent movie. When that happens, I'll buy it.
ROTS DVD by glodene	Oct 31st, 2005 01:28:19 PM
I'm gon' buy this mofo only for the fact that it should give my home theatre system a good workout, but I suspect that the subsequent Serenity DVD release will own ROTS azz.
Tomorrow morning it will be mine by AlwaysThere	Oct 31st, 2005 01:41:24 PM
George Lucas is GOD.
I originally thought ROTS was barely passable by Thirteen 13	Oct 31st, 2005 01:45:05 PM
But boy. Just seeing those commercials for the DVD and replaying it in my head with all the plotholes, and also knowing that Episode 1 and Episode 2 were made by Lucas...well...I skipped buying episodes 1 and 2 on DVD for obvious reasons, and I think I'm going to skip this one also and save my 20 bucks for something worth owning.
It would take entirely too much time to argue against everything by Citizen Arcane	Oct 31st, 2005 01:55:40 PM
So I'm not going to bother. Suffice to say that I disagree with a lot of the complaints regarding the prequels. The films weren't perfect but they aren't guilty of as many crmes as some of these people accuse them of. Especially the supposed plot holes and lack of emotion. I think some people make up their mind about how they feel about a film and argue to support that opinion.
Thanks Ms. Dupont by seppukudkurosawa	Oct 31st, 2005 01:59:15 PM
Where you hiding nowadays, your uber-geeky reviews are nowhere to be found on DVDJOURNAL.com anymore, and Herc no longer posts any links to your stuff...? Please come out of hibernation more often. I guess it would take something as cerebral as Big Trouble in Little China 2 being released to get you to come out of that shell of yours more often.
One word by blindambition238	Oct 31st, 2005 02:06:59 PM
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!! !!
Anyone know the answer to this...let me know.. by baverette2000	Oct 31st, 2005 03:01:46 PM
Ok, we all know GL is happy for the next 10 years with the his presentation of Ep 1,2,&3. And if he does re-release again like he did OT with a few tweaks here and there the odds are that we as fans would not be 100% ok with it. Now I can live (I stress LIVE) with GL artistic view on 1,2& 3 BUT as a fan, it is not easy to watch 1,2,& 3 as easily as it is OT for whatever reason. I have tried to watch (numerous times) and just about every time I fall alseep (literally). Just once I would like a lean version of the prequels that are just there to lead up to Ep 3. Ep 3 is fine, no major cutbacks there everything is there for a reason, but you can take both Ep 1&2 to the slaughter house. We don't really to see that much of a young budding love of Anakin and Padme just like we didn't need to see that much of Han and Leia to get the idea. We have imaginations to GL. Slice it down to the bare minimum. And jar jar? I'd slice that part like a sushi chef. He wouldn't more than 5 lines for the whole trilogy. And young Ani? well sorry kid but the sesame street version of Star Wars just doesn't do it for me. Leave that for TV (remember the Ewok special and CP3O/RD-D2 cartoon). That's where that stuff belongs. I wouldn't even leave the space fight from Ep 1 in. The kid wins one pod race and now he good enough and lucky enough to destroy a droid space station? Come on! The fluff is for TV. I would CHOP Ep 1&2 like a butcher and combine the two into a 2HR prelude to Ep3. Now in this day and age it is possible for the fans to do that themselves. Why wait 10 years for GL NOT to do it right. And if you really don't like Ep 3 that much take a scapel to that too but I honestly think it could only take a light trim. Not worth the effort. Now if somebody can do that you could probably make a lot of fans happy. Just post online for the world to see.
post some pics, Alexandra! by lynxpro	Oct 31st, 2005 03:14:14 PM
If you look anything like Bellucci, I'm curious to see what'cha look like! Although considering this is AICN, I'd probably wager a female writer on here would look closer to Vincent Cassell (or Moriarty) than the goddess that is Monica Bellucci! :) Any woman that even remotely resembles Monica should don the Wonder Woman costume. Well, if I was dictator and made all laws, that is.
Sith Made the Original Trilogy New Again by dumbpeoplesuck	Oct 31st, 2005 03:19:56 PM
This is for true fans...not the fly-by-nighters that seem to find their way to these talk backs for whatever reason. If I've learned anything from reading these, its this: never engage in a battle of wits with obviously unarmed opponents. Having said that, for me, ROTS changed much of the way I look at the original Holy Trilogy. Not only that, but in the most unexpected ways. I do not think that I've read this take anywhere else, but if I have, please forgive me. This stuck out like a turd in a punchbowl! To me, ROTS is all about the ultimate failure of the Sith, and the fall of Anakin into the pool of lies and deceit that lust for power create. Most importantly, it is about the ultimate victory of the Jedi in the face of defeat and despair. You know that 'goofy' part at the very end of Sith where Yoda tells Obi Wan about Qui Gon communicating through the netherworld of the force? It is really the most important of all! Palpatine's entire screw to Anakin was the promise of preventing, even defeating death. Of course it failed, because it was all part of the bending of the truth to bring about Anakin's turn to the dark side. In the end, though, it is the Jedi who ultimately defeat death, bridging the gap between that world and the physical world. The Emperor didn't, maybe even COULDN'T foresee that. Now, in A New Hope, when Obi Wan seems to vanish before Vader's death stroke (which obviously confuses Vader) when know that his training as a Jedi to be complete, and his victory and the victory of the Jedi even more so. Thanks George. For all the flaws of the prequels, Sith made the originals even more poignant.
Fitzcarraldo2 RE: "This is bullshit" by Right Bastard	Oct 31st, 2005 03:29:58 PM
You said it better than I could. The only think I can add is that the Prequel lovers are worse than the Browncoats.
Anakin's seduction is believeable by lynxpro	Oct 31st, 2005 03:36:30 PM
Think about it. Mace didn't trust him from the beginning. He tried keeping Anakin from becoming a Jedi. He slighted him by not giving him the rank of Master. And Yoda was not much better. The only guy that believed in him really was Qui-Gon, but the sabre to the chest right after discovering Anakin kinda put a damper on that. Obi-Wan semi-believed in Anakin but did not defend him from the Council that much and in fact sucked up to the Council all the time. Now compare that to how Palpatine treated him. Palpatine probably was his biological father. Even as Darth Sidious, he seemed more concerned for Anakin/Vader than any of the Jedis had ever been. Obi-Wan would not even mercy kill him, but left him to burn to death. Put yourself into the character's boots and you'd probably choose the same exact path as him. Had his environment been different, he would have been like his son. The real problem with what Lucas has tried to push is claiming that Anakin is the chosen one when in truth, it was Luke.
To everyone who's disappointed with III... by hillvalley	Oct 31st, 2005 03:52:55 PM
I can understand your points. It is a flawed movie. But unlike the first two prequels, which were sort of foisted upon us to get to episode III, this is the movie that has already been made in most fans minds during the past twenty+ years. I know I did. How can a movie like this be satisfactory if it's different then what you've expected from it? That's why the Special Editions are an afront to the world. Yes, they may well be better technically, but they're not what we fell in love with all those years ago. In other words, Eps. I and II disappointed because people didn't know what to expect and walked open mindedly into pretty bad movies. Ep. III suffered from expectations more harshly. That said, I liked Sith a lot, more than Jedi. It has moments that make me cringe, yes (a dream sequence seems out of place in SW, Grievous was extraneous, we should have seen some more action on Kashyyyk or none at all...). But in the end, I got sucked in. I knew Anakin would turn, but kept hoping I could will him not too. I got mad at Yoda for bailing out on his fight with the Emperor when there was still a chance he could win. My friend and I argue about the vagueness of Mace's demise. He thinks he survived, which I admit is plausible. I just can't fathom how he, Yoda, Ben, and Qui-Gon's spook together couldn't reconvene in any way and take back Coruscant while the Empire was still in its infancy. It made me feel, and it made me think, which by my account makes for a decent flick.
I like to see... by Batutta	Oct 31st, 2005 04:07:01 PM
...someone edit a three hour version of episodes 1 thru 3 with all the crap cut out and post it on the internet. There's a genuinely great movie in there. 45 minutes from one, maybe an hour from 2, and the rest part 3.
The seduction of Anakin is so believable... by Childe Roland	Oct 31st, 2005 04:18:31 PM
...that it's completely unnecessary. We knew going into this episode that Annie had some messed up ideas as to how things should be run (he said so himself in Clones). We knew he was up Palpy's ass and disapproved of the uptight way in which the Jedi ran their council. How much seduction was he really going to need to throw his lot in with Palpy? None. No - what was completely unbelievable was his turn to evil. The Dark Side is only evil from a certain point of view (as Hayden so eloquently emoted during the final duel). Really the Dark/Light side debate is all political bullshit about training time and the use of emotional resources and midichlorian stem cell research. Shades of fucking gray all the way around. It could be argued that Anakin's turn to the Dark Side started with his firs flagrant disobedience of his Master's orders (because those Jedi are all about order). But Anakin's turn to Evil (with a capital "E") doesn't happen until he does something horribly and unquestionably wrong with the full knowledge that he's doing it. It's the killing of the Jedi younglings. This is so out of left field from a plot standpoint and just completely out of what little character had been established for Annie to that point.Sure, he cut off Master Windu's hand...to prevent what looked like Master Windu striking down Palpy in anger. Hell, at that point he was technically still serving the Force as the Jedi preach it. So how does he go from that to essentially saying "Okey Dokey" when Palpy asks him to slaughter the kids? What's his rationale for what amounts to an ethnic cleansing? "I'm already dirty?" And don't argue that his slaughter of the Sand People sets some sort of precedent for this act, either. Different fucking ballpark. He was an angry kid who had just found his mom, beaten, bloodied and raped, strapped to some Tuskin Raider's pommel horse. He went a little nuts. Even the worst lawyer in the galaxy could get him off on temporarily diminished capacity. But there's no compelling reason for him to go from being duped into helping Palpy kill Mace to "Must slaughter children" mode. It would have been different (and only marginally better) if Palpy said: "Kill the kids and I'll tell you how to save your wife." But Palpy had JUST FUCKING TOLD HIM that he doesn't know how to cheat death and, in fact, he thinks the only way he can learn that secret is with Anakin's help (so the logical thought process, especially after seeing Palpy suddenly get well enough to hurl Mace out the Windu, would be to suspect the old fucker had been stringing him along the whole time. I get angry just thinking about how obviously stupid this must have been to someone in a position to recommend a minor rewrite that could have made the film as a whole immeasurably better.
"the Prequel lovers are worse than the Browncoats." by www.valiens.com	Oct 31st, 2005 04:39:50 PM
NOT TRUE. At least some of us can admit that as movies the first 2 prequels suck ass even if we personally like them. I challenge any Browncoat to admit that "Firefly" got the ax because it was boring sci-fi, or that "Serenity" was an amazing made-for-tv movie that accidentally made it into theaters. Why is it that neither Wheddon nor LOTR fanatics can bring themselves to say that some elements of their favorites don't work, but when it comes to Lucas, we're all expected to trash everything he does or we're assholes? Can't we not trash and still be assholes?
Hairy nutsack, childe roland, etc. by zer0cool2k2	Oct 31st, 2005 04:51:35 PM
While I'm glad ROTS managed to be as good as it was, I agree with much of what Hairy And Roland posted above. Since ROTS premiered, I've been saying that the events of episode I and II should have been one film, and the events of episode III should have palyed out over two films. Imagine if you will, a film where Young Anakin Skywalker (around Hayden's age), becomes a beloved hero early on in the Clone Wars. He and Obi-Wan Kenobi are the kind of public figures children at play pretend to be. And yet, both in battle and in his private life, we see that Anakin is a troubled soul, given to fits of anger, pride, and a growing impatience. He also suffers from losing his mother and Qui-Gon at an early age. By the end of Episode II, the cracks in anakin's shiny surface are starting to show. Now, imagine an episode III featuring a battle-hardened and scarred Anakin Skywalker (say Eric Bana), still a public hero, but also feared for the amount of power he wields. It is this Anakin Skywalker, one who has already cut many corners in the pursuit of victory, who will ultimately embrace the power of the Dark side, ultimately slaughtering many fellow Jedi and losing both his wife and best friend along the way. ....... Or maybe we just need more muppets.
Ironic by Don Lockwood	Oct 31st, 2005 05:12:51 PM
I've always been a little bothered that what is supposedly one of the premier spoiler, movie news and review sites on the internet can't seem to break the news of who the hell their reviewer is. That and when sometimes they say "we have this BIG news, but we can't tell you!" Yeah, that's news. Thanks.
I think Dupont needs to throw away the Thesaurus and take a clas by Bong	Oct 31st, 2005 05:15:45 PM

Vader musical number cut from "Birth of Vader" scene: http://em by Tall_Boy	Oct 31st, 2005 05:34:13 PM
I would have loved to have seen this: http://emodarthvader.ytmnd.com / Jokes aside, ROTS rocks - esp. the final throwdown between Anakin and Obi-Wan, it just seeps with pathos.
I would just like to say... by tango fett	Oct 31st, 2005 05:51:06 PM
that I watched a few episodes of Firefly recently and was bored out of my mind. It's gonna get hot in here, what with all the flaming to follow. Anyways, ROTS may not be the BEST Star Wars movie, but it's my favorite (does that even make sense?). Out
"Mendooooozaaaaaaah!!!!!.." by Incrediburgible	Oct 31st, 2005 05:51:54 PM
that was funny - the best-written review I've ever read on this site
George Lucas turned Vader into... by dewijnboer	Oct 31st, 2005 06:42:58 PM
George Bush. Don't deny it: Vader's lust for power and ar mongering is just like Old Dubya's.
war mongering, that should have been by dewijnboer	Oct 31st, 2005 06:43:56 PM

Sorry but i disagree. by Se	Oct 31st, 2005 07:40:14 PM
ROTS isn't a very good movie at all, and i really don't get all the fanboy love of Ian McDiarmid, what with all the overacting during the fight with Mace Windu. Yeah, Ian's old and he's got an english accent -automatic warsie wank material apparently. Anakin's turning isn't believable either (actually, nothing about Anakin is believable in these movies), there simply is no motivation for him to go against the Jedi. Please, fanboys, all of a sudden he slaughters a room full of kids? Because some old guy told him he'd teach him how to keep his loved ones alive?. Palpatine:"You gotta see both sides of the force, annie, not the narrowminded view of the jedi etc etc". Anakin: "Yes, you're sooo right, you overacting sith lord, you. I'm gonna kill Mace, then all the jedi, then i'll force choke Padme while i'm at it. Just because some sandpeople killed my mommy, i'll turn in to a murderous lunatic, oh sith, i forgot i wanted to keep padme alive all along -i think i ****ed up by choking her- Noooooooooooo". And i love all the praise of that silent scene where Lucas tells us the important things with images (cause he can't write dialogue worth sith) as Anakin moodily stares at Padme's appartment from the Jedi temple. Talk about cheap drama. Hey Jorge Loco, how about you give your characters real character and less moody stares -the CGI is more believable than their motivations. Cut out all the funny robots (95% of all robots in these movies) while you're at it. Yeah, IMHO, you know.
George Takei will own your ass !!! by jesuschrist	Oct 31st, 2005 08:09:49 PM
Why did this movie suck balls? Too many reasons to mention. And I repeat, this movie sucked balls! Big balls, little balls, donkey balls, monkey balls, my balls, your balls, also Paulie Shore's balls. Short balls, tall balls, Anthony Michael Hall's balls. Eighteen story balls, even Peter Lorre's balls. Goose's balls, moose's balls, also Dr. Suess's balls. The Lakers' balls, and yes the Knicks, it sucks the balls of chicks with dicks! And though it's quite irrelevant, it sucks the balls of elephants. It sucks the balls of newborn babies and mangy dogs with fleas and rabies. It sucks the balls of Captian Kirk, and Steve Martin when he did the Jerk. It not only sucks Greedo's balls, it sucks guys in speedos balls. It sucks the balls of David Prowse and Saddam Hussein, that rotten louse. It sucks the balls of old Bill Gates, even when he masturbates. It sucks the balls of homeless guys, all gross with dollar wine and flies. It not only sucks Peter Lord's balls, it sucks Harrison Ford's balls. It gobbles Harry Mudd's balls, and even Elmer Fudd's balls (hahahaha). It sucks cat balls, rat balls, and giant vampire bat balls. It sucks dog balls, hog balls, and big old warty frog balls! But most of all, as I clench my fist, I will sum up by saying this. This movie sucked and here is why, THERE WAS NO GODDAMN GEORGE TAKEI !!!!! Happy Halloween!
The book is better by Knightmare187	Oct 31st, 2005 08:40:04 PM
I love the movie but felt anakins turn wasn't handled right. In the book the machinations of palpatine are given more detail. especially when he reveals himself to anakin. The details are to many to place here. I encourage everyone to read the book. my $0.02
The sad thing is that if Obi-Wan killed Anakin instead of lettin by FrodosBlueBalls	Oct 31st, 2005 09:23:14 PM
and countless other people. If I was Obi-Wan I'd opt out for death in A New Hope too. What a bitch. I have a question for the TB'ers...would you rather have a crappy SW movie or no SW movie?? I myself, not being a big fan of the first two prequels will take a crappy SW movie over a lot of the crap that is in theaters lately.
"...may end up going down as one of the great Star Wars moments. by DarthCorleone	Oct 31st, 2005 09:47:09 PM
A beautiful cityscape, creepy-as-hell-doom-is-nigh score that tells you it's all about to go bad, and - most importantly - the narrative actually takes a moment to BREATHE. Are there any other moments in the prequels that give us that? If there are, they're tough to find. No exposition, no cloying dialogue, no action...simply a minute to reflect. There are plenty of moments like that in the original three (I rattle them off whenever I'm asked for my favorite Star Wars moments), but they've been missing for the past 22 years. It's almost as good as the iconic life-altering Tatooine binary sunset of A New Hope (and what a powerful punch to reprise that as the end note for Revenge of the Sith). Seriously, the first time I saw that Padme/Anakin skyline scene, I had to question whether I was actually watching a Star Wars movie, and that was a very good thing.
Movie Sucks by wardrick	Oct 31st, 2005 11:26:59 PM
You're stupid if you just don't see it.
Palpatine/Emperor by TheGinger Twit	Oct 31st, 2005 11:29:45 PM
I can't believe what I'm reading here. Palpatine was over powered. He was losing. everything he had worked for was at a crossroads. Windu had a lightsaber to his throat and was telling him 'jig is up baby, your ass is going to jail' and Palpatine was like "Fuck that for a joke" and so he unleashes his electricity. only Palpatine is semi ready for it and holds the lightsaber as a conductor, only thing is, he's screaming out in pain and Palpatine is also screaming out. Windu struggles to hold out, while Palpatine puts more power behind his output. the proximity between the two men and the discharge (hehe) causes Palpatine to inadvertently be caught in his own power. Sort of like you accidently hit yourself - you still bruise. THIS is why Palpatine started sobbing and pleading for Anikin to help him. He wasn't acting. the man was in pain and he was about to loose everything. When Anikin took pity and destroyed a 'jedi' in order to save a 'sith' IT'S THE GREATEST FUCKING MOMENT IN STAR WARS HISTORY. And so is this film. I for one am eternally gradeful to Lucas, for his contributions to cinema, and for leaving us with a final star wars film which happens to be one of the best.
Good comparison..... by Hairy Nutsack	Nov 1st, 2005 12:33:39 AM
Let's try this again. Imagine you were raised a Christian, your parents were Christian, you went to Christian church your whole life, and as far as you know you'll die a Christian. For a few years now you've been working with a Muslim guy, he seems nice enough, you engage him in friendly religious debate, you even consider him a friend, unknown to you he's part of a crazy ass terrorist cell. Life goes on, you get married and eventually your wife gets pregnant, but there are complications and she will likely die either before or during childbirth. Your Muslim friend at work sees your distress and begins discussing aspects of the Muslim religion that speak directly to your aching heart, you get sucked in. So one thing leads to another, and while in your new found fanaticism your friend tells you that Allah will heal your wife if only you would act against the enemies of Allah. You accept the offer, knowing for certain that your wife and child will live. So one night your pal gives you a large suitcase bomb and drives you to your target, a day care center that takes care of evil American Christian children. You happily dig a hole dead center of the playground and bury it with glee. At noon the next day the bomb goes off and incinerates the children during their lunchtime recess, and a few months later your wife dies anyway.......Does any of this sound realistic to anyone here? Anyone at all? If this sounds like a plausible scenario that you might get sucked into then you need to check yourself into Arkham immediately. For the rest of us, we all know why Anakin killing kids as his first evil act was utter bullshit.
Did you know this junk yard slave isn't even old enough to s by iamnicksaicnsn	Nov 1st, 2005 01:02:52 AM
But he can use the force, they say... Weird Al, what a guy.
but seriously, I didn't have the need to see it again in the by iamnicksaicnsn	Nov 1st, 2005 01:21:14 AM
So i'll buy it, then ultimately judge from there. After calming down over it, the story is so solid... but the execution is so fucking ridiculous. If you took the stories of all three prequels, and just told them without dialogue, they'd be amazing, if you made them with a different director, it'd be amazing. But that's not what happened. Instead we got shit. When I first saw III, I was able to forgive the violently awful Padme/Anakin dialogue (and no, that's not how young people talk, or at least, not all the time, and if they ever talk like that, it's not for extended sequences... I mean, fuck, I blame that shit on Hayden Christiansen and Lucas for hiring him again). Ian McDiarmid was... too good for words, though, so at least it has that going for him. I mean, shit, when he says "DO it" in the beginning... pure genius. And fuch Liam Neeson for not coming back for that oh, so pivotal dialogue with Yoda. I'm glad that guy posted it above, it's so important to see, so many missed opportunaties... So fuck Lucas' dialogue. FUCK IT RIGHT UP THE GOAT ASS. Everything else, I'll have to judge when I watch it again... But I am excited for Battlefield II, SW BF I was awesome as shit. Hope the sequel lives up.
Yeah, there could've been a little more Anakin brutality... by iamnicksaicnsn	Nov 1st, 2005 01:23:42 AM
but like Lucas' good buddy, Spielberg, he is a pussy.
Comparison? by TheGinger Twit	Nov 1st, 2005 01:51:20 AM
Yes. yes. Good comparison. I can imagine being seduced by Allah to bury a bomb under a child care. No where would common sence step forward from the back of my brain. You see, the Jedi and the Sith are not Christians and Muslims. I hate to rag on you, but Geezus man. Anikin was a energy conjuring and wielding sourcerer. He followed the (world of star wars) reality and logistical diciplines needed to transend and materialize the living force. He was being instructed by a political commity. One he was sucked into as a young boy. Had he not he would have been a class of Sith. Not neccessarily bad, but not disiplined enough to show mercy on those 'under him'. This is why there are always two, a master and an apprentice. And the master in this case was Palpatine, and he needed an apprentice, because in their working, the two help each other in their rise to power. Thats why Palpatine consistently went through apprentices. and according to the first film - showed he had great interest in Anikin. And Boy did he have plans for him! Anikin was seduced and when he finally commited an act of murder on one Jedi in the retribution of a sith, he had lost all his standing as a Jedi. He was now a sith! There was no Jedi anymore. Not to Anikin. He hated his master, he hated the commity. And when he killed Windu he knew he could never return to any of them. Under the Sith Master he was safe. And under the orders of the sith master, he would be free, His wife would be saved and he would finally learn to be a stronger more Powerful Jedi... eh, sith. Twise he had seen lightning from more powerful Jedi. The first time he was unaware of such power, the second time it came from someone he never suspected in Palpatine. Anikin prided himself on his power, mainly being more powerful than his master. Only his power was nothing to that of Yoda, Dukoo or Palpatine - this further contributed to his sudden fall. His weakness. He didn't know the power of the dark side. He was arrogant as Yoda and Obie wan repeatedly said and even tried to beat out of him - which just fueled him. Why did Anikin kill kids? I'm sure it had a lot to do with mercy as well as blatant murder. That place was being over run by storm troopers. they were going to die regardless. See the great thing about episode 3 is that the wholefilm just feels like everything is in chaos and confusion. It's war! as the opening Scroll tells us. And you don't need to start from episode 3 to watch all your Star Wars films. You need to start from Episode 1. Because right now, our own world is very much like episode 1. isolated wars based on deception and confusion. And one day, the war will be huge and no one will know what to do. oh yeah! night bitches
"No, no, no" - Ian McDiarmid's performance is terrible! by Poo Bay	Nov 1st, 2005 01:51:34 AM
Why all the fan boy gushing over a truly atrocious performance? McDiarmid's over-acting totally killed the films most pivotal scene. He's utterly fucking abysmal, second only to the god awful Christensen who can't act his way out of a paper bag. You can try and airbrush it any way you like, but George has made a right fucking balls of this trilogy. Thank fuck this it's over.
I still didn't care for it by Bob of the Shire	Nov 1st, 2005 01:58:45 AM
And it breaks my heart because I love the originals so much. I've tried to pin it on the awful dialogue, over-abundance of CG, or borish characters but I'm still not sure why the prequels don't work for me. I found the Clone Wars animated series to much more satisfying than the movies.
Obviously you've never seen the Emperor in Episode 6. by TheGinger Twit	Nov 1st, 2005 02:37:42 AM
Ian McDiarmid is a FUCKING CHAMPION.
Lucas, a God? by lsrdsc	Nov 1st, 2005 04:03:30 AM
Lucas isn't a god. Lucas is a PIMP, and Star Wars is his Whore. He puts it out there to make the cash, pulls it back in, puts a new dress on it, some new makeup then sends it back out on the street again.
isn't the point of vader's/anakin's turn by Colonel_Blimp	Nov 1st, 2005 04:04:05 AM
that he is no longer in control of himself? One momentary lapse of reason, followed by the eternal embrace of the dark side? (twenty years at least) Wasn't Anakin twisted by the dark side, sort of like Theoden was possessed by Saruman (sorry to bring up Lotr here)? Isn't that what the dark side does, it corrupts you beyond recognition. Logic and common sense has nothing to do with it. He becomes evil. Not "relative point of view bush vs. iraq evil", "but old school mythological no grey area just plain pure and simple take over the universe evil"? Anakin is lost and has no power over himself anymore. So killing the jedi kids, or his relatively quick turn isnt a stretch at all. The killing of mace is the final drop, and from there there's no slow descent, just a headlong dive into a twenty year long darkness. To discuss logical character motivations in a jedi corrupted by the dark side is like complaining that it's completely irrational that a schizophrenic hears voices. that's the point. it's not supposed to be logical in that way. I thought that was an interpretation of the dark side that was pretty well established since rotj. I was never baffled by his turn, it made perfect sense from the series' definition of the dark side. peace.
I can enjoy this piece of shit if I'm a)extremely drunk and by The True Priapic	Nov 1st, 2005 04:22:25 AM
...it's a fucking horrible movie that survives only because of the viewers fanboy politeness.It's rubbish.The beginning space fight is soulless,the Anakin turn is rubbish,Padme is a truly dreadful boring character,Wookies are shit,Obi Wan and Yoda are fools,Mace DOES go out like a putz,the film is absolutely souless.I dont care for it.In the slightest.Its crap.Trying to make out that bad storytelling elicits more discussion is fucking stupid.The prequals are just badly written,directed,produced and ACTED.fucking rubbish.No redeeming feature.Luckily a pal downloaded the original film swithout any Cunting Lucas tinkering and they were great fun.Anything touched by cgi in the Wars Universe is herecy.Now,dont get me started on Coppola taking out his fathers Outsiders score.Fucking wanker.Wankers,the pair of them.
McDiarmid in Episode 6 by Poo Bay	Nov 1st, 2005 04:43:28 AM
In Jedi he gives a nuanced performance with just the right amount of ham and cheese. In Episode 3 we are firmly in parody teritory, especially during the Mace encounter where he is fucking dreadful. His facial expressions and line delivery are beyond ridiculous. Still, it's not all his fault, Lucas should have reigned him and coaxed a more grounded performance from the actor. Fucking "Power Unlimited"? Wank...utter fucking wank.
No Blimp, you got it ALL wrong..... by Hairy Nutsack	Nov 1st, 2005 04:52:19 AM
What exactly was it that Luke came to understand just before the "end" as Palpatine called it in the final battle of ROTJ? THAT THERE IS ALWAYS A CHOICE!! Palpy tried to manipulate Luke into killing Vader and Luke CHOSE not to do so, Luke had him beat, but unlike his Father he CHOSE to not give in to the Dark Side, and he CHOSE to remain true to the light side. Moments later we see Vader himself realize that he still had a CHOICE!! Anakin always had power over himself and his choices, as Obiwan told Luke, the Force can control your actions but it will also OBEYS YOUR COMMANDS! So again I ask everyone, is it even remotely reasonable that someone would choose to kill children? No of course it isn't, so stop apologizing for this ridculous chice that GL made. ***** And Ginger, Anakin himself killed Dooku in the first moments of ROTS so why would Anakin be fearing the powers of a man he himself killed? Dooku's power had nothing whatsoever to do with Anakin's fall.
george lucas isn't jewish by Colonel_Blimp	Nov 1st, 2005 05:33:07 AM
Nutsack, of course anakin chose to join the dark side (there were several instances were his choices sent him closer to the brink: killing the tuskens, killing doku, and finally killing mace), but once there, his vision was so clouded by it he wasn't able to judge right from wrong until his son came and saved him. It was like a temporary insanity (lasting two decades). And when speaking of the "controls your actions/obeys your command", I'm pretty sure thats the good/light side of the force they're talking about. There's a reason it's called the dark side. Because its evil, and it takes control over you. Vader is manipulated by the dark side, not the other way around. I'm not apologizing for anything, (it doesnt need apologizing). And you're right it's not remotely reasonable that someone (in their right mind) would choose to kill children. Yet it happens every day. And if it happens in our world every day, its no stretch for me to believe that Vader, possesed by the dark side, is able to do it. He doesn't really have a choice, because he's unable to question his own actions anymore. Get your head out of you ass and start to think half full instead of half empty. If what you see on screen doesn't immedieately correspond with your preconceptions, hesitate for a moment, think that maybe, just maybe, your preconceptions were not correct this time, and try to rid yourself of your pride and admit that there may be an alternate solution. Still, have a nice day.
You've failed. Revenge of the sith WAS a critical and commer by catanga	Nov 1st, 2005 06:10:47 AM
its great
First off, Anakin didn't kill Windu. by Childe Roland	Nov 1st, 2005 10:38:11 AM
He cut off Mace's hand, literally disarming him and preventing him from killing Palpatine in what Anakin perceived as cold blood. It was all about Annie's point of view, there, as to the relative right or wrong of his actions. But Palpatine was the one who tossed Mace out the Windu (I love that joke...never gets old). So enough of this "Anakin fell when he killed Mace" crap. It never happened. Second, Palpatine had admitted to Anakin BEFORE he killed the kids that he didn't really have the secret to preventing Padme's death. Palpy said that was something he and Annie would have to discover together. So stop using that as some sort of justification for Annie's actions. It didn't exist. Finally, sure Anakin's perspective was skewed by the time he killed the kids, but he maintained at least some perspective and relative definitions of right and wrong, good and evil. He said very plainly during his fight with Obi Wan that, from his point of view, the Jedi were evil. So it's not like he was wandering around doing shit mindlessly. There was a pretty well-established reason for Anakin to want to turn against the politics and philosophies of the Jedi. It was consistent with the character he'd displayed up to that point in the series (it was just clumsily executed). There was not a single good reason for Anakin as we knew him to kill the Jedi younglings other than Lucas needing a quick and easy way to make him despicable. It was sloppy plotting, pure and simple.
Hey Roland...... by Hairy Nutsack	Nov 1st, 2005 12:35:18 PM
According to Queen Blimpy, we both have our heads up our asses and we need to swallow our pride and admit we are wrong. See people kill children in our world every day, apparently this is perfectly normal behavior and we need to just accept the fact that.....god what horseshit. Blimpy the Dark Side cannot control people, that was the lesson learned at the end of ROTJ. The actions the Force controls are those that you allow it to control, and in context the actions Ben and Luke were speaking of were related to Luke gaining extra speed and agility so he could deflect laser bolts, not controlling him so he could slaughter babies. Get your head out of your own ass, you're arguing with canon. Yes the Dark Side is evil, but it's not demonic posession. At all times Anakin had control over his actions and choices, there is no justification for the baby killing. 20 years later he watched Alderaan be blown to smithereens, this I can believe, he's had 2 decades to commit atrocities all over the galaxy, what's a planet full of people at that point? However, 10 minutes after he joins Palpy he's carving kids up like they were Christmas ham? Schyeah right, whatever! If the kids had attacked him first, after seeing him kill a Jedi or something, then I could accept their deaths as justified in his twisted mind, but.....you know what nevermind, I don't expect you to get it, you think evil can control people, which is just plain stupid.
Childe Roland by lynxpro	Nov 1st, 2005 12:47:03 PM
But Anakin was already too far down the path to back out by balking at wiping the Younglings. The remnants of the Council would blame Anakin for Mace's death no matter what. They'd boot him out of the Order for sure at the very least. So with Mace's murder, there was no turning back. Those Younglings would eventually become Jedi who would oppose Anakin and Palpatine, and would stop at nothing to kill them later. Thus it may be evil, but it was the prudent thing to do. At that point, all Anakin was concerned over was protecting his wife and unborn child. When you get to that level, nothing else matters. And even if Palpatine was duplicitious and Anakin knew that, that doesn't make him worse than Obi-Wan. Thus Anakin's slide to evil was totally believeable.
The Emperor let Mace win. The Emperor triggered Anakin's vi by The_Lion	Nov 1st, 2005 01:15:18 PM

if there's one place to complain about... by lynxpro	Nov 1st, 2005 01:17:49 PM
Complain about the last scene of the epic duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan. How Anakin - the Chosen One - jumps and Obi-Wan cuts off his limbs without breaking a sweat. Now that was stupid and groan inducing. I could accept that had Anakin done a very high jump and Obi-Wan also jumped up to meet him midair and they swung sabres at each other and Obi-Wan somehow defeats Anakin. That would have been better. Otherwise, Obi-Wan force pushing Anakin into the lava would have been cooler. Maybe they can consider that as they work on the DVD box set or the re-release in 3D in the next few years.
Lynxpro..... by Hairy Nutsack	Nov 1st, 2005 01:22:32 PM
"Thus Anakin's slide to evil was totally believeable."- lynxpro ..... The point I and Roland are trying to make is that there was NO slide to evil, none at all. He goes from being whiny Jedi man-bitch to Satan in the space of 5 minutes, it's just ridiculous. I agree, killing the younglings was a prudent and necessary action, but what should have happened is Anakin walks into the room, sees the kids, they deliver the "What should we do?" line, Anakin turns and leaves the room and Clones walk in to finish the kids off. The Clones are heartless war machines, but Anakin is supposed to be all caring and loving. Only some fucked in the head terrorist, who was born and bred to hate people, could stoop so low as to carve up kiddies, but we are supposed to believe that in the space of 2 heartbeats Anakin went from (somewhat) rational to batshit crazy?
He killed all the Sand People kids in the PRIOR movie, okay? Eno by Techtite	Nov 1st, 2005 01:28:21 PM
Look; we all know that we think Jedi are the end-all
Sorry Lynxpro, but your theory doesn't hold up... by Childe Roland	Nov 1st, 2005 02:25:38 PM
...when you consider the very clear fact that - at the time Anakin agrees to kill the younglings - he knows Palpatine does not have the secret to protecting his wife and unborn child. He knows because Palpatine has told him this. Sure, the younglings would have to die or be turned in the long run, but which side of that proposition would the Anakin you speak of - the one who's supposedly acting to preserve the lives of his own innocent wife and child(ren) - logically come down on? You've got some folks arguing that Anakin's mind was too cloud to think rationally about killing the kids and now you're saying he was thinking ultra-rationally. But it isn't about his thought process so much as it is about his feelings. You know feelings? The things the Sith are all about tapping into for strength while the Jedi warn you to suppress them? Anakin's feelings as evidenced to that point in the trilogy have been all about caring more than his Jedi masters think he should and trying (and failing) to preserve the things he cares about. The only argument for Anakin killing those kids that makes any degree of sense is one that views him as a twisted psychopath before he ever starts down the road to Sithdom (and maybe his stalkerish behavior toward Padme could be used to further this theory). If, in his mind, he's actually "saving" the kids by killing them before they become fully corrupted by the Jedi ways he now sees as evil, then I guess it makes sense. But there's no evidence for this line of thinking or feeling given by Lucas' dialogue or Christensen's performance. I'll restate something from earlier for clarification: Anakin did not murder Windu. And he didn't intend to. Palpatine used him. If you were Anakin and you realized a man you'd trusted had tricked you into helping him kill another man you respected, then the man you helped revealed that one of the main reasons for your trust in him was a lie (specifically, that Palpy didn't, in fact, know how to save Padme), what would your reaction be? Having seen Anakin's reaction to finding his mom in the Sand People's tent, I would have thought he would try to kill Palpatine immediately. In fact, it would have been better if he had. Of course, he would have failed and Palpatine would have left him to take the blame for Windu's murder anyway. And even that would've been a more plausible motivation for Anakin to start killing Jedi at that point. Maybe he returns to the temple and the Jedi try to take him down there. Maybe the younglings see him fighting the Jedi and join in and we have to watch Anakin dying a piece at a time as he's forced to kill these dogmatically indoctrinated children in self defense. Even that would have been better and more consistent with his character than what we got (although an Arthurian love triangle with Obi Wan and Padme would've been the best, in my opinion). Thing is, I've read a hundred different ways the turn could've been handled by rewriting a few scenes that could have made the movie as a whole a thousand times better. And the folks making these suggestions are schmucks like me sitting on their work computers cranking this stuff out in minutes. Lucas had YEARS to get this right and couldn't do it. Thus, Sith is a shitty ending to a shitty trilogy that did a disservice to the greater saga (which had its own problems to start with).
nice post nutsack by Colonel_Blimp	Nov 1st, 2005 02:31:13 PM
I especially like how you refer to me as queen blimpy and such. Subtle and mature. And you represent my meaning exactly right, when you say that [i am saying that killing children] "is perfectly normal behavior and we need to just accept the fact that..." Cause, you know, that's EXACTLY what I said, innit? SPOT ON! And where am I arguing with canon? My interpretation is just as valid as yours, it doesnt contradict canon, it just seeks to explain rather than to tear down. Where is it said that vader during his 20years on the dark side wasn't corrupted and was still a rational human being? "More machine now than man, twisted and evil". (I just made that last quote up, didn't I?) Of course "evil" can't control you in the real world, but within the ficticious (and I stress ficticious, you make it sound like I'm saying that the reality of the SW universe is the same as our reality. Its not.) universe of sw, evil is pretty much a force of nature (ie the dark side), which isnt relative or base on pov. It's just evil. And that kind of evil is it that controls vaders actions. I admit that that kind of evil doesnt exist in the real world, but that doesnt mean i cant accept that it exists in a ficticious world. And I didn't say you have to admit you're wrong, I said you would probably benefit by realising there can be more than one valid interpretation of something. If you're trying to have an argument, could you please please make your points based on what I actually say in my posts, and not some mangled, distorted version rewritten solely in an attempt to asskiss and impress Childe Roland? Thank you in advance. Have a nice day.
Excuse me Blimpy..... by Hairy Nutsack	Nov 1st, 2005 03:07:07 PM
Excuse me Blimpy, but you're the one that accused me of having my head up my ass. If you start flaming should I not flame back? I'd be happy to continue without any immature bullshit, but you're the one that started it......You keep saying the Dark Side and Evil control Anakin's actions when canon CLEARLY states that they do not. You are in fact arguing with canon, you just don't want to see it. Luke was deep into Dark Side territory (sensed by the Emperor) as he pounded away on his Father, and that was exactly what the Emperor intended. Palpy intended to have Luke dispose of old useless Anaking for him and become his new apprentice, and Luke very nearly did just that. Unlike his Father, Luke controlled his anger, made the correct CHOICE, and threw down his weapon that he was just using in anger against his Father. Luke CHOSE and Anakin CHOSE, the only difference between them was the CHOICES made. Nothing controlled Anakin's actions, he was sane and rational throughout, this is clear from everything we see on screen. Even right after Mace gets flung out a window there is the hint of fear and regret, it's all there. Even before our much debated baby killing scene, he doesn't walk in with the sabre on, he makes a decision right then and there and ignites the sabre. His conversation and demeanor with Padme on Mustafar is particularly revealing, he clearly hates all that he has done but he justifies it because he supposedely did it all for her. All of the reasons for his CHOICES are very real and human, just like our world. The humans in Star Wars are supposed to be exactly like us but for the notable exception of the events and surroundings. Their emotions and reactions would be no different than ours would be, Dark Side or no.
i disagree by Colonel_Blimp	Nov 1st, 2005 03:35:17 PM
(and sorry for the ass/head thing, you're right on that one. I got carried away, you know how tempting it is.). What canon are we talking? Just the films or the EU? I'm sticking with just the films. imo, my interpretation of the concept of the dark side (ie non-relative evil taking control over you) does not conflict with the films. I completely agree that anakin made a conscious choice to embrace the dark side, just as luke chose not to, but once that choice was made, the door was locked and the key thrown away. The anakin we used to know was eclipsed by vader, which is a DIFFERENT PERSON. You know, like bruce banner and hulk. Vader is not anakin. well, he is in flesh and blood, but not in soul. When theres is proof of an occasional conflict, like the padme/anakin exchange on mustafar, it is old ani trying to reach the surface, but being surpressed by vader. just like banner trying to gain control over hulk. it could be debated that these conflicts surface when he is in deep emotional turmoil - something meeting padme (or ob1, or learning padme is dead, or finally facing luke) would trigger, but the younglings in the temple would not. I cannot for my life see how anakin killing the younglings because he is controlled by the dark side is conflicting with what is said on screen in the OT.
Now we get to the heart..... by Hairy Nutsack	Nov 1st, 2005 04:02:17 PM
Now we get to the heart of the matter. It is really this simple, and perhaps I have not been clear enough, Anakin was not being controlled by the Dark Side EVER! By canon I refer to the movies alone, the EU can suck my left nut. What Luke realized at the end of ROTJ was that we make our own choices period, the Force does not control our choices and does not control our actions beyond what we allow it to. That is exactly what Palpatine was referring to, what Luke only understood at the end. This is absolute canon fact and leads us to one startling conclusion. If Anakin could not be controlled by the Dark Side of the Force, which canon establishes cannot happen, then he made the choice to kill those kids completely of his own free will which was motivated by the mere possibility that he and Palpy could save Padme's life. Not reasonable by any stretch.
EIII Was Brilliant... And It Makes The First Two Prequel Disaste by ZombieSolutions	Nov 1st, 2005 04:24:59 PM
even more laughably irrelevant than when they first came out. i think Ms. DuPont is dead on the money when she says there really is no reason to watch EI or EII at all. what i'm wondering is if Lucas knew he had one good movie in him, but felt compelled to stretch it to 3? seems likely given how good EIII is and how much the other two SUCKED DEAD DONKEY BALLS
Sorry Blimp, I know what you're saying... by Childe Roland	Nov 1st, 2005 04:34:51 PM
...but I just don't think the history of the SW universe as depicted in the films supports your claim that The Dark Side is a non-relative evil entity. Yoda refers to it as quicker and more seductive, heavily implying that choice plays a huge part in participation in Dark Side acts. Kenobi uses a rationalization not unlike the one you're using...that Anakin ceased to be who he was and became Vader when he chose the Dark Side. But the later films prove that interpretation wrong. Ben wants Luke to kill Vader. He thinks that's the only possible course of action. Luke believes his father can be redeemed. Turns out Luke's right ("Tell your sister...you were right."). And if you look at the Force in extreme absolutes, then the side embraced by the Jedi would have to be seen as wholly good and not open to relative interpretation. Yet that's clearly not what Lucas is demonstrating by showing how the Jedi set themselves up for a fall over the course of the prequels (Qui Gon is the only one shown as possessing any true wisdom and he's seen as essentially a heretic by the council). How many times is the phrase "From a certain point of view" or some variation on that used in the entire saga? Lucas has always depicted The Force as just what it is...a Force. It's a resource to be used and manipulated by people with different intentions. It does not possess anyone (in fact, when Luke suggests to Ben "It controls your actions?" Ben is quick to point out that it doesn't). Anakin is responsible for all the acts he commits in Sith (and, I would argue, for all the acts he commits in the original trilogy as Vader). He chooses these actions and it is incumbent upon Lucas to provide us with a believable reason for those choices. I believed the Sand People slaughter. I didn't buy the Jedi kid slaughter. Which was more important, in Lucas' mind, to Anakin becoming Vader? I think that's pretty obvious given where each occurred in the story. Lucas has never given anyone a reason to believe the Dark Side of the Force can make anyone do anything they don't want to do. And if you put that notion aside, it's obvious Lucas failed to lend Anakin's turn the appropriate weight and motivation to make it believable.
Fix the fucking background, my eyes are bleeding. by Strabo	Nov 1st, 2005 04:46:00 PM
Christ. Took me three times as long to read that article as it should have.
ok, i admit you make a fair argument by Colonel_Blimp	Nov 1st, 2005 05:04:27 PM
But I still don't think the canon negates my interpretation. I just think that how the dark side works is: once you embrace it - BOOM! you're fucked. I completely agree that a choice has to be made (that's the whole point) but once you made that choice, it happens instantly. Theres no slow descent. You can maybe see it coming, but once it is there, it's definetely there. maybe "possessed" is the wrong word, but I don't think anakins choice was rational and completely his own at the temple massacre. he still believes his motives are pure and just, he believes he is in control of himself (just as the emperor does) but his actions serve purely the dark side. there is no other reason for him to do it. his judgement IS clouded by the dark side. his actions are undeniably evil. he is no longer the boy he used to be. so I'm still sticking with my anakin/vader as banner/hulk analogy. you can still occasionally feel banner inside hulk, but hulk is still liable to do some pretty fucked up things, pov notwithstanding. i suppose i'd rather give lucas the benefit of the doubt than agree that he fucked up (i don't think he fucked up, let me stress that. i'm not making excuses for what you consider bad plotting. This all makes sense to me, see.). But it is kinda cool that there are more than one way to read these films.
Well, since I'm the one arguing that point of view is releva by Childe Roland	Nov 1st, 2005 05:17:22 PM
...I've got to let you have yours on Anakin's turn, Blimp. In fact, I wish I could share it (I'm so very tired of being bitterly disappointed by the prequels). I just can't ignore all the stuff that Lucas didn't give the rest of us to help us reach the happy place you seem to have found all on your own. Peace.
Thanks Roland, by Colonel_Blimp	Nov 1st, 2005 06:05:34 PM
I hope you'll find your happy place one day too. (is this unprecedented in the annals of aicn-tbs, actually agreeing to disagree?) Try giving it the benefit of the doubt. It's damn hard to make a movie. Look for the things that work rather than those that dont. Peace out.
Light vs. Dark..... by Hairy Nutsack	Nov 1st, 2005 06:07:16 PM
Okay I know I said the EU can suck my left nut earlier but there was something extremely important that actually did come out of the recent New Jedi Order books, and it's a doozy of a thing. Here it is in a nutshell, there is no Light Side of the Force and there is no Dark Side of the Force, there are only good and bad people using a neutral energy called The Force. Now this is major major stuff and is almost always the kind of thing that GL himself will approve or disapprove of within the EU although he tends to stay mostly away from it. No it is not film canon, but it supports very strongly what I and Roland have been trying to say within this thread. Take it for what it's worth, but it did come sraight from Lucasfilm if not from GL himself.
First, Last, and Only Post - Ever by Jedi Matt	Nov 1st, 2005 06:29:56 PM
I just waded through this entire talkback not so much because I agree with Childe Roland, et. al., which I obviously do, but because I was searching for some reasonable interpretation of Anakin's fall that made some sense (to me). Look, we all have a story in our heads and wish we could rewrite this movie, but this I say to you: Lucas' story as portrayed on screen makes no sense. It's not just that Anakin marches in and slaughters the younglings, it's that immediately prior to the Mace/Palpy confrontation Anakin learns that Palpy is the Sith Lord and runs straight to Mace to warn him. He's still got enough good sense and free will to reject Palpy - strongly - and do the right thing, but then - after waiting only a convenient two or three minutes - runs right back to Palpy's office and for no apparent reason given the preceding scene - somehow decides that Mace must lose his hand. And then immediately thereafter slaughters the younglings. These three scenes back-to-back make no sense - in any universe! Even without the first scene (Anakin running to Mace to share the secret) the two other scenes would be very, very hard to swallow, but with that first scene, the plot just devolves into unbelievable nonsense. The whole premise of the prequels was to show Anakin's fall, and these three critical scenes just ruin the whole thing. I don't care that this is Lucas' empire to do with as he pleases; I'll never concede that this is how Anakin becomes Vader.
The guy above is correct: by fiester	Nov 1st, 2005 06:38:22 PM
The line "So this is how democracy ends. To thunderous applause" does not appear in the movie...at least not the one on DVD. The line is "So this is how liberty dies. To thunderous applause."
Anakin killing kids by TheGinger Twit	Nov 1st, 2005 09:00:10 PM
Anakin did not go from normal to kid killer in the space of 5 minutes. Anakin became a killer in episode 2. Through out episode 3 he was a troubled man on the edge and when he joined with the Emperor it was clear that he must help bring down the jedi, or they would be brought down. Anakin killing Jedi kids is not a stretch. If you've ever seen a Star wars film you would know that jedi's are powerful and hard to fight - even for Anakin. Those Younglins were all potential death machines against Anakin, especially considering A) the madness and confusion of the situation B) the lack of real power Anakin now know he had C) the fear and fall to the dark side which had consumed him. Did you fuckers not see his red/yellow eyes. The man was full of Jedi Mojo and he was unleasing it on everyone. The whole reason there is a Jedi order is to prevent people with this power from doing what Anakin, and Palpatine, did.
Not reading our posts Ginger or what? by Hairy Nutsack	Nov 1st, 2005 10:11:52 PM
Dark Jedi Mojo or whatever Anakin had, where in hell did he get it? No one is arguing that Anakin was full dead on evil and on the Dark Side when he killed the little ones, what we don't understand is how he became so evil in no time at all. It was wrong for him to slaughter the sub-human Tuskens and he knew it afterwards, but in the moment his rage eclisped all sense and reason and he went on a murderous rampage. Not so in Sith, he just walks into the temple and starts killing babies. Both acts were wrong and probably equal if you put them on a scale, but the reasons for both acts of child killing are where the comparison falls completely. The Tuskens had spent weeks torturing, and possibly raping, his mother to death, she died in his arms, we know he is kinda loopy about his Mom, and he kills the whole sub-human village, awful but somewhat understandble. The Jedi kids were HIDING in the temple, approached him in fear without any hint of aggression toward Anakin, were completely innocent of any wrongdoing whatsoever, they even asked him for help/advice, and he turns on the sabre and skewers them? These events are not even close to the same thing, and the Tusken village rampage establishes no precedent whatsoever. If you told me that Darth Vader found a group of Jedi kids and slaughtered them somewhere between ANH and ROTJ I wouldn't even blink, he was steeped in evil by then, but for his first evil act to be killing babies is WAY over-the-top villainy, an evil act perpetrated by a mostly good person some 5 minutes before.
points by kentmurray	Nov 1st, 2005 10:25:57 PM
anoyone who criticises hayden's performance has a big problem - the guy is actually PLAYING a whiny, lovesick guy. GET IT! just watch the opera scene and listen to palpatine telling anakin that plagus had 'even the power to create life'. the obvious conclusion to draw is that plagus impregnated shmi - it explains the midichlorian count and is certainly the strongest (actually only) piece of evidence in any of the six films as to anakin's creation! some posters say that palpatine lies consistently, but why would he lie about anakin's origins when anakin himself has never had a 'where did i come from' moment in ANY of the films. the line exists as read as a direct indicator to anakin's origins, there is no other explanation that satisfies. and check this link out - it's a ticket to the ep3 world premiere at the cannes film festival. the ad has info about the sc

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