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New BATMAN BEGINS TV spot hits! Oldman speaks!

First? by Robnhud	May 17th, 2005 12:44:01 AM
Um ya cool
First? by Boba Feet	May 17th, 2005 12:45:07 AM
Sweet.
Dammit by Boba Feet	May 17th, 2005 12:45:33 AM
The spot looks OK, though.
Yet more evidence that this will be THE film of the summer.... by Jon_Snow	May 17th, 2005 01:04:19 AM

I watched a few of these trailers with my kid and he said, okay by Big Bad Clone	May 17th, 2005 01:04:49 AM
Why doe sthis thing have so many trailers and tv spots. It's mostly the same, but holy shit it's pretty damn close and I've felt like I've already seen the fucker. Which is odd since this is the first time we've seen Jim Gordon speak. Plus, we've only heard one (seen one other) of the films four (five?) villians.
Yeah, they're pretty shameless with putting all the material in by Ribbons	May 17th, 2005 01:08:29 AM
Strapping that dude up to a spotlight is pretty hardcore... probably burns just a little though.
Eighth!!! by xXMr_BoJaNgLeSXx	May 17th, 2005 02:16:13 AM
...who cares.
I wonder who's body that is on Bat-Signal by xXMr_BoJaNgLeSXx	May 17th, 2005 02:31:54 AM
As for Gordon's first words? I'll give it a B+. It's still too little of Oldman for me. Oh well, the movie comes out in another month anyway. I'll live. BTW, they had a new clip on Entertainment Tonight last night. Nothing too special but you got to hear Bale's 'Batman' voice for once. It was so low and raspy he sounded POSSESSED. Interesting take by Bale, I love it! Sweetness it was...
i've cut myself off from most of the trailers and spots by iamnicksaicnsn	May 17th, 2005 02:37:37 AM
and feel better for it.
Technically not Oldman's first words by Gheorghe Zamfir	May 17th, 2005 02:54:12 AM
I recall one of the other trailers that had Oldman/Gordan asking what's that, and Batman replying "backup."
Fuuuuggggggghhhhh by Duck of Death	May 17th, 2005 03:01:01 AM
Yeah, that and the previous trailer are doing it for me bigtime. I'm ready. Bring on the Bat-mensch!
Imagine if this guy directed ROTS by AntoniusBloc	May 17th, 2005 03:50:06 AM
From the trailers at least, it appears this may be the best among the summer giants, and definitely the best Batman film yet.
fuck yeah! by patrickbateman42	May 17th, 2005 05:18:08 AM
keeps getting better, and oldman saying that line at the end was just awesome. i keep telling myslef not to getmy hopes up, and not watch the trailers, just see the film. but whenever i do i get so excited and im sure itll kick-ass now. not that long to wait now man!
I'm totally the opposite by speed	May 17th, 2005 05:39:39 AM
the more i see the more worried i get.i really dug the orignal teaser trailer, but since then it's all been downhill for me. i get the feeling it's going to be a well intentioned muddle. I hope not! at least i'm not going to be expecting anything when i walk in. that's always a plus.
Seriously...what's up with that cape? by Zartan	May 17th, 2005 06:16:33 AM
If you're going to change it to be "believable", lose the cape (BLASPHEMY!) and cover up the mouth and eyes with a helmet like mask for protection like the Green Ranger, er Goblin from Spiderman. Partial "reimagining" is almost worse than total reimagining. For fans of the Dead End look (like myself), you could have explained that (like in the Dark Night returns), the armor is underneath the suit. Bruce would have a lean, muscular gymnast body, not like a body builder. The armor would provide the extra "bulk" that would justify the larger appearance. People are supposed to fear Batman, they think he flies and is bulletproof, most crooks never knew what hit them. He preys off their fear and ignorance. He is thought of as the boogeyman. If you see he's basically in a SWAT riot gear set up, you piece it together and just giggle at the velvet cape and rabbit ears. Not a fan of the Mad Max, Dreadnok ,ooking Batmobile either. Suspension of disbelief will get us over the exposed mouth, but that cape should be red and belongs on Routh's costume. the casting is AWESOME, the story sounds okay, but the look doesn't work for me (except for Gordon...AWESOME!).
Don't expect linearity from a trailer by Rhett Butler	May 17th, 2005 06:46:27 AM
This is going to OWN the night. It may even clean away the stench of Joe Cobbler's previous campery. And the latest pix are up at - http://superherohype.com/cgi-b in/imageFolio.cgi?direct=Batma n/The_Movie/Movie_Stills
Even Batman has an SUV nowadays. by I Dunno	May 17th, 2005 08:34:27 AM
Is he going to have one of those magnetic "Support Our Troops" ribbons on the back?
CRISPIN GLOVER should play The Joker by RIVERO	May 17th, 2005 09:14:23 AM
He looks the part, is versatile, has an ardent base of loyal fans and is all-around terrific for the part. Sign the Glover as The Joker Petition!: http://www.petitiononline.com/ qp2d1234/petition.html
Bits n' Pieces by Rhett Butler	May 17th, 2005 09:15:50 AM
first footage - http://s37.yousendit.com/d.asp x?id=0MJSO4EMER6683T64URS1D8D1 6
Justin Theroux as The Joker. by Trevor Goodchild	May 17th, 2005 09:58:28 AM

Steve Miller is the JOKER by Kentucky Colonel	May 17th, 2005 10:04:04 AM
Also, the Gangster of Love.
Enough already with the Joker Casting by John-Locke	May 17th, 2005 11:09:17 AM
Doe's every single Batman TB have to end up as a fricking Joker casting debate, we've all heard some good ideas which can be found in previous talkbacks. Rant over. I'm just pissed that I couldn't get the trailer to play on my mac :(
Doe's??? I meant Does. by John-Locke	May 17th, 2005 11:11:57 AM
Nothing to read here, move along.
monkeytennis?... by Childe Roland	May 17th, 2005 12:22:55 PM
...is so ugly that, when he was born, the doctor slapped his mother. Then the ASPCA arrested the doctor.
Yeah, really with the joker casting already. by I Dunno	May 17th, 2005 01:00:40 PM
And dragging out that petition in every TB...no one pays attention to online petitions in the first place. Do you think a movie producer is going to be swayed by one? Jebus, some people's children.
"Just some nut..." by -guyinthebackrow	May 17th, 2005 01:18:43 PM
Gordon sounds like he's a heavy smoker.
Batman: Deadend by Dokkalvar	May 17th, 2005 01:23:22 PM
Fans of the Batman: Deadend look. Are you fucking retarded or something? Seriously?!? wants to punch anyone who mentions that Stupid STUPID intro to whatever comicon it was attached to
Qui Gon on the Subway by MasterWhedon	May 17th, 2005 01:31:19 PM
Anyone else notice that CU of Liam on the subway, looking up just the slightest bit ticked off? Looks like moviemack and others were right and there's a certain twist in store. Looks good though. Bale's got a great mug and Cillian's reading of "The Batman" line kills me evey time. Very excited.
that's weird. everytime i hear him say, "the bat...man" i get d by HypeEndsHere	May 17th, 2005 01:53:44 PM

Dokkalvar... by Zartan	May 17th, 2005 02:05:39 PM
Dead End had horrible dialogue, a horrible performance by Bartram (reducing Batman to a punch drunk palooka spitting every 2 minutes), a cheap gimmick (AvPvB), but what do you have against the Bat suit? Which suit do you prefer? The second best (I think) was Keaton's original in which he moved like a Penguin in a neck brace. The shot where Batman stands up in the rain looked better than any live action WB (or other) Batman visual to date. Does that make the short good? No. Even a hybrid with Dead End's cowl and cape with the new body armor. The one thing I've still never seen done(Dead End tried, but made Batman look blind) was the lenses. With his enemies using chemicals (Joker, Scarecrow), he should have eye protection. small white eyes built in the mask could be creepy if done right. That's my two cents (and not even worth that)...what would be your ideal look for the Batman?
While I'm not as angry about Dead End... by Childe Roland	May 17th, 2005 02:10:18 PM
...as some, I don't think it's any stick to measure the franchise's cinematic potential by. It was a fun little fan film that gave us an idea of what average schmoes like most of us could do if we really set our minds (and credit cards) to it. But Batman looked about as silly as you'd expect a big (and slightly chunky) guy in a leotard to look. If anything, the short demonstrated why a comic-accurate representation of the suit wouldn't translate well into a movie anyone wanted to take seriously. I'm not saying the suit we got in Begins is the ideal (essentially its a slight improvement on Keaton's original outfit), but it's the best bat suit we've seen anywhere on screen yet.
well... by rocker1420	May 17th, 2005 02:11:00 PM
There goes my "So What...?" moment of the day...
Zartan and Childe Roland by MasterWhedon	May 17th, 2005 02:18:18 PM
I made a similar post in another forum not a week ago, and I can't agree with the two of you more. The first time you watch Dead End, it's really cool to see the look and feel of it all. There are some great shots that feel entirely disconnected from "the whole." But what little story there is crumbles so quickly under the weight of its gimmick (along with my interest). I like World's Finest too, but Collara's way too concerned with the making the heroes look "traditional" and comic-like, so much so that he casts bodybuilders with zero for acting talent. They guy is a DP at best, not a director. A director, a storyteller knows that the movie doesn't hinge upon the suit, but how convincing is the guy in the suit. That's why, yeah, the Begins suit isn't perfect, but Bale and Nolan will make it the best live action Batman we've seen yet.
Harry Ain't Dead... by Kentucky Colonel	May 17th, 2005 02:40:27 PM
He just stepped away to take a massive dump.
Dead End wasn't as bad as... by ClarkK82	May 17th, 2005 03:10:13 PM
the World's Finest. That was complete crap. Terrible acting on all parts. I remember before Routh's casting for SR that whoever the body builder guy was in contention (according to himself) for the Superman part for the big screen. Holy crap, I'm not the biggest Routh fan so far, but that would have been absolutely dreadful. The reason Dead End got so much hype is that it was specifically targeted to be a fan boys wet dream, you know the kind of dream that you wake up from and don't remember what exactly happened or the storyline but rmember vague things that seems interesting and disconnected from eachother. And also the hype came from Collera being a egotistical jerk off and posting on message boards about his own "genious." lame.
Justin Theroux as the Joker... by Edward_nygma	May 17th, 2005 03:15:40 PM
... i like that idea Goodchild.
MasterWhedon by Ribbons	May 17th, 2005 03:16:36 PM
Of course moviemack was right, he read the script dude. It wasn't a prediction, it was a spoiler.
monkeytennis? is so ugly... by Childe Roland	May 17th, 2005 03:31:40 PM
...that when he looks up ugly in the dictionary he sees his own picture above a caption that says: "Yeah, you. You're ugly." He's a swell guy, though. He gives pictures of himself to local hospitals for use in the fight against hiccups.
Ribbons by MasterWhedon	May 17th, 2005 03:35:40 PM
No, right, yes, I know. Part of me just wondered if they'd pull an "Obi Wan killed your father" and bait and switch at the last minute. However, now that I see the images and can put the pieces together, I'm really liking how things are taking shape. A friend of mine saw the film at an industry screening some two months back and said it was phenomenal. Everything I've seen and heard makes me think that some of the harsh script reviews from guys like moviemack--and you, Ribbons, if I'm not mistaken--might've been nothing more than fanboy kneejerks. And maybe this isn't your thing--that's cool--but me, I'm very excited.
Yeah, batman's suit... by Warcraft	May 17th, 2005 03:44:54 PM
...why couldn't they have given him a cool tactical suit like Solid Snake's or GreyFox from Metal Gear Solid?
Hey, you guys... by Koranabuse	May 17th, 2005 03:51:44 PM
...will many of you be making use of the Passion.com dating site being advertised on AICN? Particularly you fat, ugly, oily, smelly, dirty fuckers who make up the majority of the people here? I can guarantee you they're eagerly awaiting the sight of massive repulsive fuckers bearing down on them looking for fuckee-fuckee. Then again, most people who use dating sites are no prize themselves, they;ll settle for you as a catch. Aw shit, now I feel sorry for you. Harry's tormenting you with the promise of pussy on this site. He's evil.
monkeytennis? is so ugly... by Childe Roland	May 17th, 2005 04:01:02 PM
...that the Dumpster his momma left him in as a baby rejected him.
monkeytennis? is so ugly... by Childe Roland	May 17th, 2005 04:09:39 PM
...and smelly that after he was born, the doctor handed his mother a roll of toilet paper and lit a match.
Where can I see Collara's Worlds Finest? by Trevor Goodchild	May 17th, 2005 04:55:42 PM

World's Finest by MasterWhedon	May 17th, 2005 05:03:12 PM
http://www.theforce.net/fanfil ms/nonsw/worldsfinest/index.as p
Affleck as the Joker! by doobieflixx	May 17th, 2005 07:36:15 PM
He was the bomb in Phantoms yo!
"Trailers are like movies, only not boring." by godoffireinhell	May 17th, 2005 07:41:51 PM
I completely agree! Most films don't have enough story for feature length, let alone those 2 hour plus disasters we get all the time. Trailers are dense, well paced, sum things up nicely and, above all, they're completely FREE!!
MasterWhedon by Ribbons	May 17th, 2005 08:04:43 PM
Okay. As for the critic thing? Never touched the script myself. I downloaded it back in August or something and have been afraid to look at it since. There are a couple of things I've said about the movie that make me "uneasy," doubtful, whatever, but I'm not the authority on those things.
He said the scent... by Childe Roland	May 17th, 2005 11:29:28 PM
...would drive women crazy. He didn't mention that it would be a rage-filled homicidal sort of mania. I knew I should've suspected trouble when he told me the fragrance was Eau d' Bronco. Could be worse though. I could be playing tennis with monkeys. They tend to serve up the same stuff they fling. That smell doesn't wash out easily. So are you still determined to hate this movie no matter what, mack?
Indeed by Ribbons	May 17th, 2005 11:37:10 PM
Let's just all agree to agree that "Dead End" sucks.
Red has always been MY favorite color... by Ribbons	May 18th, 2005 12:05:23 AM
What I meant was that whether or not you're a moviemack or a kdog69 or whatever it is, you can unite over the crappiness that is "Batman: Dead End." Wasn't making a commentary on this particular movie.
The only nagging doubt I have lingering about this movie... by xXMr_BoJaNgLeSXx	May 18th, 2005 12:38:20 AM
I have to admit, the only thing bothering me about this movie is the whole, damn, love interest thing. It's the idea in general of always having this redundant formula holding it back, as well as the fact that all Katie is doing is playing a rough variation of Joey Potter in this fucking movie. This shit better not turn into be Bruce's Creek with some sappy-ass love ballads playing in the background from the latest "it" artists while Bruce confesses his undying love for 'that girl next door'. I'll kill something, IN THE THEARTE, if anything of the sort happens. The ONLY love interest ANY of these movies in the near future should have is Selina Kyle/Catwoman. Beyond that, fuck these broads. Every since Vicki Vale, the whole things gotten tired, and many fans see right through this ploy by now. That's why I'm PRAYING Katie Holmes doesn't water down and destroy any accurate credibility to the comics this movie is clearly trying to promote. But for now, I'll buy it until I finally see the movie. And as for the occasionally lumpy batsuit? Eh...it's pretty much what I expected out of this flick so I can't even complain though the neck does look little thick in some pictures and clips that I've seen. I haven't read the script so I can't judge beyond what everybody else has seen on the web so far...and Katie Holmes. Damn you Katie, if you fuck this up...
But one things for sure... by xXMr_BoJaNgLeSXx	May 18th, 2005 12:40:34 AM
Katie Holmes IS hot...from the right angle.
Yeah...Catwoman. And occasionally Lois Lane whenever he feels li by xXMr_BoJaNgLeSXx	May 18th, 2005 12:54:16 AM

Hey man... by Ribbons	May 18th, 2005 01:51:06 AM
It's not the costume in "Dead End" that bugs me, it's that he fights Predator, for God's sake. He fights Predator! And people thought that was cool! Achi-machi.
Why do movie execs feel the need to pair up Bruce Wayne/Batman w by JohnnyTremaine	May 18th, 2005 01:51:36 AM
Could it be because the concept of a wealthy aristocrat living in a remote mansion with his young "ward" and his man-servant and who ventures out on nightly sojourns clad in black rubber, seems a little, um, GAY? Batman having a girlfriend lets filmmakers off the hook from dealing with possible sexual misinterpretations.
About Dead End and World's Finest.... by superman05	May 18th, 2005 01:53:34 AM
They weren't bad for fan films. I just hope that hollywood doesn't mess up these big budget films on the Batman and Superman mythos. I don't know which actor should be The Joker in the sequel, but I hope his voice is like Mark Hamill's in the animated series. I do know who they should pick for Harley Quinn though, Fairuza Balk. I think she could definitely pull it off.
By the way by Ribbons	May 18th, 2005 02:02:07 AM
Anybody know what the hell "douche-chills" are?
Don't take fan films too seriously by Gheorghe Zamfir	May 18th, 2005 03:40:20 AM
Though I was pretty let down by Dead End, based mostly on this site hyping it like the second coming, but both Dead End and World's Finest (and Grayson) were great for what they were, just comic fans geeking out. I'd never want to see any of these turn into full features, but I can still sit back and get a big kick out of them.
Genuine question Moviemack by Trevor Goodchild	May 18th, 2005 05:36:11 AM
What would be your ideal Batman flick? Truly curious. Cast? Director? Plot? Design?
Gheorghe by Ribbons	May 18th, 2005 06:21:14 AM
Yeah, it's not like I have a beef with Sandy Collora (sp?) or anything, but all the "geek-gasms" (maybe "douche-chills") over the movie seem a little ridiculous.
The suit problem is created by the fundamental flaw of Batman as by FluffyUnbound	May 18th, 2005 09:25:43 AM
He's not a superhero. He's a guy who's somewhat disturbed who has some gadgets and wants to fist-fight criminals. That's it. Many people have complained that the new script makes him too James-Bondish, but that's not the script's fault, it's the character's fault. Batman IS very James-Bondish. He's James Bond with deeply neurotic tendencies and a dress-up fetish. When executing Batman stories in a comic book, you can make that character work, and even have him hang out with guys with actual POWERS, like Superman and Green Lantern. You just have to ignore the fact that none of that makes sense, that Superman would LAUGH at Batman and his lame, no-powers, I-wanna-be-a-superhero self. Batman would be like Syndrome to the other heroes' Mr. Incredible. In a comic, you can just ignore the fact that Batman's crime-fighting career would last exactly one night, that he would get riddled with bullets at the first crack house he tried to knock over. But it's harder to ignore that in a movie. You have to try to make it at least remotely plausible that Batman could fight crime by giving him some tiny advantage or at least some tiny protection against an old lady hitting him with a cane and putting him in the hospital for a week. One way to do that is to toughen up the suit, to give it the qualities of armor, and maybe even include a subplot where the suit somehow increases Batman's strength. The alternative is to leave Batman as a Rorsharch in a leotard and cowl.
Well said Fluffy... by so sorry	May 18th, 2005 10:06:06 AM
Suspended belief is paramount when watching a comic book movie. Get over the suit issue already! On a completely different topic:just saw ROTS last night. WORST. ACTING. EVER. What a shitfest. I'm crushed right now...
Of rubber suits and furrowed brows. by Childe Roland	May 18th, 2005 10:14:50 AM
Okay, mack, it does indeed seem that you're still hell bent on hating everything you can about this movie, but the suit is CLEARLY an improvement over the ginormous-smooth-forehead-havi ng, no-chin-propping, heavily movement-restricting armor Keaton wore in 1989. That suit looked cool on screen in brief flashes, but any time we got to see Keaton actually try and move in it (or, worse, act through it) it just looked silly. This suit is obviously more flexible and the sculpted brow actually works (or did in the brief scene of dialogue we all saw Bale deliver in the Entertainment Tonight preview a few nights back). Again, it's not the Platonian ideal Batman costume (that costume exists only in the fanboy equivalent of cave paintings: comic books), but it looks far less silly than the leotard in Dead End (it looked like the guy playing Batman didn't even need a utility belt, he could've just stored his gadgets between his rolls of Bat Fat). In every comic image of Batman I've ever seen, Batman has a furrowed brow (unless the artists were trying to convey surprise, and that didn't happen to Bats often). So how are you going to convey that through the cowl unless it's sculpted into the material? No material will allow that kind of expressiveness, yet without it you end up with drive-in-movie-theater-forehea d batman. Would you rather they paint the mask on? Just asking.
moviemack by MasterWhedon	May 18th, 2005 12:50:54 PM
First off, moviemack, you seem to get hot and bothered mighty quickly. The only reason I referenced you in my post was because you're probably the most prominenet voice of dissent on this site regarding this film, as you've quickly proven since yesterday. Shit, I'd take that as an honor that your name's getting thrown about. And while I do have a few concerns about the film, the things I'm seeing look promising. Rubber batsuit and Scarecrow on the horse included. Is it my absolute ideal Batman, the one I'd make if offered? No, maybe not. But I'll accept it for what it is, check the thing out and then come back here to discuss in depth later on. I could hate it. It could turn out to be shit. It just doesn't look like that yet. To me. If you don't like what you see, good luck and God bless. I'll buy you an apple, you give me an orange.
Bat Suit or Costume or Armour. by Trevor Goodchild	May 18th, 2005 01:01:44 PM
Anyone who hates the rubber body armour needs to see Collara's World's Finest. It looks like a Fathers For Justice disgruntled dad prancing about.
Hello Moviemack. You see my query up above? by Trevor Goodchild	May 18th, 2005 01:04:13 PM
Not a wind-up attempt.
Dead End/World's Finest by MasterWhedon	May 18th, 2005 01:05:54 PM
The last thing I really have to say about these two is that the biggest problem with these films is Sandy Collara himself. He so damn concerned with the look of the film, he forgets about the story and thusly falls flat every time. And the guy is POMPOUS with a capital POMP. He tries to position himself as Master Fanboy Filmmaker, carrying himself like he's the fuckin' leader of Talkback or something. Check out this column he wrote for Buzzscope comics regarding the Routh Superman suit: http://www.buzzscope.com/featu res.php?id=942 First off, how many people do you think REALLY care what he has to say about the suit? How many little children really went up to him on the street asking for his two cents? I know many folks have problems with the suit, but this guy tries to say, "No, no! This isn't Superman! THIS (motions to his World's Finest lughead of a Superman) is Superman!!" To me, he represents a lot of what is wrong with the Fanboy Dream. He'd much rather see a literal, point for point adaptation of the comic than finding the appropriate adaptation for live action. To me, he's the kind of guy who gets too tied down in the costume and doesn't give enough though to putting the right actor in it. And the word is ACTOR, not MIMBO BODYBUILDER.
Collara by Trevor Goodchild	May 18th, 2005 01:16:13 PM
Kudos to the guy for getting his vision on film but he's on thin ice comparing his fabio, hen night entertainment to Singer's Addidas Kal-El. And once again. Justin Theroux for Joker.
And his Lex Luthor in the Exo-suit was pitiful. by Trevor Goodchild	May 18th, 2005 01:22:07 PM
Seen better in the back pages of an Argos Catalogue.
Compare and contrast. by Trevor Goodchild	May 18th, 2005 01:27:52 PM
It helps to see them at the same time. Nolan's . . . .http://www.comicon.com/thebea t/images/bale-costume-1.jpg And Collara's.......http://www.the kidswindow.co.uk/images/produc ts/FAN0101.jpg
Trevor Goodchild by MasterWhedon	May 18th, 2005 01:31:51 PM
That just made my f-in' day.
I may have used 'accurately' too loosely by xXMr_BoJaNgLeSXx	May 18th, 2005 01:35:46 PM
They obviously used the broad idea of Bruce's origins in the movie such as his journey to the East, his apprenticeship to Al Ghul and Ducard (SPOILER: whether it's Neeson or Watanabe, I really don't know). His first confrontation with his childhood fear, bats, which inspires him to take on the identity in the first place. The MERE fact that Gordon actually looks like GORDON for once makes it as close a deciption to the comics than EVER BEFORE. OF COARSE this is not going to be a panel-by-panel, bubble-for-bubble retelling of say Year One or The Long Holloween like Rodriguez did for Miller's Sin City. You kind of CAN'T for Batman. There's been so many storylines over the characters 66 year existance, that you wouldn't even know where to begin choosing from if you were writing a screenplay for a project like this. Not like Sin City which only had like twelve chapters to the entire series. That's a blip compared to 66-frickin-years. So I would only expect for them to take what they could or needed from the comics and mold it together as smoothly as possible into one linear storyline for the movie. The only thing driving even THAT off track is the Rachel Dodson character. You were right before, she should have nothing to do with Bruce's motivation, and I pray she doesn't (I doubt it, but pray...a lot). Especially for a character that doesn't even EXIST in the D.C. Universe in the first place. But for characters with such a long history as a Batman, Spider-Man, The Hulk, and even the original SUPERMAN, which probably has an origin about as accurate as the one in Begins, there's only so many elements you can put into one movie without it straying from whatever story the writer's trying to tell in the movie. My point is that they've done the same thing for both Spider-Man movies, but not one fucking person has ever complained about it EVER (knowing these Talkbackers, that might be a too broad a statement). But yet since it's being done with Batman, it's a completely different story. Is it really THAT difficult to create the 'perfect' Batman movie for the fans out there? This could just as well turn out to be as great a movie as the Spider-Man films (although that train sequence is blatantly stolen from Spider-Man 2. It's so damn obvious).
Tough titties, Moviemack. by FluffyUnbound	May 18th, 2005 02:37:04 PM
Yes, I pointed out that Batman as a character is fundamentally flawed, and that the suit helps to rectify that. To dispute my claim, you'd have to come up with a way that it's NOT completely absurd for a guy in a cloth leotard to fight crime with his bare hands but not get shot - or what the hell, at least break a bone - on his first night out. That only makes sense in the world of comic books, or in the world of Adam West. If the character didn't have longevity on his side - if they sat down to make a superhero movie and just invented Batman out of whole cloth, and made him a guy with a good punch who dressed in a leotard and a cloth cowl and fought crime - people would fall all over themselves pointing out how absurd it was. You have to give Bruce some toys or he's just not a credible superhero.
You might want to go back and READ some of those comics from the by FluffyUnbound	May 18th, 2005 02:55:30 PM
They seriously will make you wonder if they were written for retarded children. So the success of a given approach to a character 60 years ago means nothing. Absolutely nothing. And the comparison to radioactive spiders isn't apt. A radioactive spider may be a stupid reason for a character to have superpowers, but at least it's "a" reason. The more apt comparison would be to consider the character of Spiderman if he had come to be because Peter Parker was angry about a family member being a victim of a crime, so he decided to put on a costume and could suddenly and spontaneously climb walls, swing from webs, and consistently knock people out by punching them. Without gadgets or an enhanced suit, Bruce Wayne is just some angry dude, and he shouldn't be considered any more or less likely to win fistfights against ten guys than any random drunk fighting the cops in an alley during Spring Break. Give him James Bond style training and accountrements, and it's still a little silly but at least it becomes movie-land plausible.
Sorry, that's accoutrements, naturally. by FluffyUnbound	May 18th, 2005 02:59:03 PM
I had turned James Bond into a CPA for a moment there.
Original Riddler Dead by ZeroCorpse	May 18th, 2005 03:08:31 PM
Frank Gorshin died today. The Riddler has moved on to the final, greatest riddle of all. RIP.
Making the rounds today... by Childe Roland	May 18th, 2005 03:44:38 PM
...aren't you, 'mack. As a fan of the comics, you must know that there is no standing "take" on or version of Batman that's lasted 60 years. He's been revised almost to the point of reinvention by any number of Crises, writers, artists and even TV and movie directors. So I will ask you once again (and imagine your answer in your best Jack Nicholson impression), who's vision of what Batman should be is the rightful one and the one worthy of mass doistribution and consumption? Clearly you believe it's your vision and your concept of the character alone that grants an understanding of the One True Batman. Just admit it. You'll feel better and finally reveal how self-defeating your "logic" on this subject truly is.
Plausibility can be measured on a sliding scale. by FluffyUnbound	May 18th, 2005 03:56:30 PM
A thing can be impossible, thoroughly implausible, slightly implausible, impossible to speculate about, slightly plausible, thoroughly plausible, damn-near self-evident, or proven. That means we can take two different items and measure their relative plausibility, even when neither of them is particularly plausible in and of themselves. By the standards of the fictional DC universe, it is more plausible that Superman fights crime than it is that Batman fights crime. Neither the existence of Superman nor that of Batman is plausible outside of that universe, though. That's why it's not an oxymoron to talk about a concept possessing or lacking "movie" plausibility. // I won't comment on the Burton Batman, because I can no longer judge it even remotely objectively. Sometime during my viewing of Burton's Planet of the Apes, I soured on Burton's visual style and the way he likes to put a set together, and I literally can't look at his environments anymore without feeling something akin to claustrophobia. The complete absence of anything uncontrived gives me the sensation of being trapped in an enclosed and artificial space. I know, he's made a lot of money and gotten a lot of critical acclaim for that "look", but I can't enjoy it any more. I would vastly prefer something that at least looks like it takes place in a real-world space.
Oh, then you've seen the movie... by Childe Roland	May 18th, 2005 04:09:37 PM
...already, 'mack? Why didn't you say so? Then I apologize for doubting your assessment of its merits. See, I was working under the impression that you'd just read an early leaked script and pieced the rest of your opinions together from posters, trailers, TV commercials and plastic merchandise on comic and toy store shelves. My bad. Man, even if you did see the movie (which you've already said you won't), why in the world would anyone hold up your opinion as objective or valuable? Have you read some of your posts? You come off as a downright miserable and unpleasable bitch.
Come on, didn't you see The Rock? by FluffyUnbound	May 18th, 2005 04:23:22 PM
Of course Humvees can evade the police. :-) // That's not what I mean by a real-world space. A real-world space is one in which when characters are in a scene that takes place outside, they're...outside. When characters are in a scene standing in front of a building, they're actually...standing in front of a building. Burton's control of his environments is so extreme that he often can't bring himself to allow that to happen. His signature look is one of extreme artificiality. I can appreciate that type of environment when it's done really well, like the Coens did in Hudsucker. But with Burton, I finally soured of it when he jammed all of Ape City into someone's studio apartment in Burbank [or was it all just a Rainforest Cafe location shoot?]. After that for me Burton's worlds always feel like they're cramped and enclosed, despite his considerable attempts to give them scale. It's too bad, I kind of like his stuff when it there's actually some sunlight involved, as in Edward Scissorhands.
So, again, the movie you haven't seen... by Childe Roland	May 18th, 2005 04:31:40 PM
...and refuse to see but hold to standards you have invented in your head sucks until somebody who's seen it can prove to you otherwise? And I'm a worthless fence sitter because I refuse to committ passionately to a "it will suck/it will own" position before seeing it? Tell me... when you close your eyes, do you think you become invisible or does the rest of the world just go away?
Yeah, that's fair. You can definitely say that's a risk. by FluffyUnbound	May 18th, 2005 05:07:13 PM
As you attempt to move closer to realism, it's possible to movie farther away. To a great extent it comes down to execution. Could you do Batman in the style of Unbreakable, or in the style of Bourne Identity? And still have it work? It's an open question.
RIP Frank Gorshin - The Riddler by Rhett Butler	May 18th, 2005 06:33:45 PM
First and Best! RIP
Trevor_Goodchild by Ribbons	May 18th, 2005 11:05:02 PM
That gag with the Batman costumes made my day, man. Peace.
I am totally OK with Kelsey Grammar as Beast. by DOGSOUP	May 19th, 2005 02:13:56 AM
It works. I thought about it it works for me. His voice is perfect for on the spot quotations that directly apply.
Wow by Minoc Drakkir	May 20th, 2005 01:23:47 PM
Wow.
I am disappointed by the trailers by hulkhogan	May 20th, 2005 06:43:50 PM
I am really disappointed with the trailers for this flick. I thought with Nolan and Bale this movie was a slam dunk for greatness. After seeing these trailers it looks like crap. I don't think any effort could top Burton/Keaton, but we will see. I will withhold full judgement until after I see it.
Oil Can Boyd, STFU by Spam-let	May 22nd, 2005 07:14:54 PM
Gary Oldman's been sober for nine years now. Your bitter jealousy at the beauty of his women is obvious and should be quadrupled when you consider the young Uma and the two supermodels he's had since her. You did manage to get one part right: Gary Oldman is a great actor. For my money, he's the most versatile one living.

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