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Mr. Beaks Vs. FAHRENHEIT 9/11!!

First! by bigshotdon1	Jun 22nd, 2004 06:50:09 AM
Just thought i'd let you know...
Nice review by phanboi	Jun 22nd, 2004 06:54:33 AM
Very Nice Mr. Beaks. And now let's get it on with the Moore bashing.
Yeah, sounds of 9/11 in a doc about 9/11 is "Wholly inappropriat by Tetsuwan Atom	Jun 22nd, 2004 06:57:27 AM
Left leaners love the movie, right wingers hate it. Blah blah blah. Same story over and over again.
Michael Eats More... by badboymason	Jun 22nd, 2004 07:00:41 AM
Michael Moore is a total hypocrite for refusing to be interviewed for the documentary Michael Moore Hates America. Even though the title could be slightly less harsh towards him, he can't have it both ways. If people refuse to be interviewed by him, he calls them on it and attacks them for it. So why turn round and make himself a target for the same thing?
I have no desire to see this... by IFartOnYourGrave	Jun 22nd, 2004 07:10:24 AM
However I must say nicely done Mr. Beaks, nicely done. Thanks for calling it a movie... which it is, and not a documentary.. which it is not.
Minor detail... by grid101	Jun 22nd, 2004 07:14:16 AM
...but isn't it FAHRENHEIT 9/11?
a review of this review. by StaticPrevails	Jun 22nd, 2004 07:32:21 AM
Was this really a great review? I really had a hard time reading it. I really dont want to get out a dictionary when I read a movie review. I think if you simplified your points, words and sentence structures, it would be a much easier read for the rest of us. Im still not quite sure what you were saying about the movie.
People that often say by Spike fan	Jun 22nd, 2004 07:44:46 AM
that Moore lies (apart not from giving examples of those lies) must ask themselves who is the bigger liar ?Moore or that cowardly fool in the Whitehouse called George W Bush. This man invaded a country and is responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent civillians and hundered's of troops on the basis of a patent mis truth. So yeah who lies bigger Moore or Bush????
Micheal Moore doesn't hate America by deathsjestbook	Jun 22nd, 2004 07:58:47 AM
Michael Moore is far from being a perfect human being, he often takes points too far and his veneration of Afro-Americans verges on the patronsing, but his refusal to be interview for MMHA is perfectly understandable. Like Bush, he recogises when someone is out to do a hatchet job and steers well clear. This foolish young man who's making the documentary, that's meant to tell us everything about the US is great, when even those with a vague sense of reality know otherwise, is just wasting his time and ours. Fox news has that viewpoint pretty sown up, the point about 9/11 is that it's meant to be something we don't hear every fucking day. Fuck him and his rose-tinted spectacles.
Moore reveals himself by RickP66	Jun 22nd, 2004 08:03:31 AM
Moore continues to reveal himself for what he is...an anti-American socialist. A couple days ago, when commenting on the fact that Canada is becoming more like the US, he made the statement that "becoming like the US is like pissing on yourself." That fat, lying fuck can kiss my ass. As for the fucking moron who tried to say "President Bush lied more than Moore," no, President Bush did not lie. You may disagree with his reasons for going to war with Iraq, but none of them were lies and if you had an honest gene in your DNA you'd admit it.
Ruby Ridge incident took place in 1992 by SmutGirl	Jun 22nd, 2004 08:05:04 AM
which means it took place during GHW Bush's Administration, as Clinton didn't assume the presidency until January 1993
Good riddance by Subversive01057	Jun 22nd, 2004 08:28:43 AM
to the various neo-con human garbage who leave this site because they can't handle the truth.
Explanation required by afraidoffans	Jun 22nd, 2004 08:37:25 AM
Can one of the US talkbackers explain something to me. I know you have freedom of speech over there and anything but if Michael Moore lies his ass of in this and his last movie, as this review has claimed, how come he hasn't been sued for slander and all sorts of other charges? In this country, if someone made a film about the prime minster and lied or exaggerated as much as is claimed in Moore's works, then they would be in court faster than you could say "Pancreas!" So either he's lying and should be punished for his slander, or just saying stuff that some people of a certain political bias, simply can't stand.
So it's okay for fascists... by Kid Z	Jun 22nd, 2004 08:42:10 AM
... to constantly shove their propaganda up our collective sphincters, but it's not okay for Michael Moore to throw a series of "glancing blows" against the most corrupt presidency in history. This review is just more typical blather from regime lapdogs.
People who call artists "sellouts"... by Deep Cover	Jun 22nd, 2004 08:48:03 AM
...are asswipes. "Mr. Beaks" is the equivalent here of a jock-sniffing sports or music journalist who trashes an someone who is more talented, makes much more money, and has much more power than he does. In addition, he's in love with his vocabulary (or more likely, his thesaurus) and also counts himself among the chorus of morons who believe that all documentaries before Michael Moore's had no point-of-view and consisted only of "truth", that oft-subjective notion that a few detractors with an internet connection can poke holes in if they try hard enough.
"His refusal to be interview for MMHA is perfectly understandabl by FluffyUnbound	Jun 22nd, 2004 08:49:35 AM
In other words, there was absolutely no reason for "Roger and Me" to be made, its central "joke" and main docu-dramatic device was inherently dishonest and unfair, and anyone who afforded it any credit or acclaim blows goats. It's nice to see that people can finally acknowledge that.
Michael Moore sucks, but Bush sucks harder by Rupee88	Jun 22nd, 2004 08:57:32 AM
Bowling for Columbine was dumb, and I'm sure this movie is too. Moore doesn't care about logic or keeping to the facts. He twists everything (and makes stuff up) to suit his purposes. Everyone knows that Bush is evil, so this film serves no purpose.
Moore is lazy and stale by nmp03	Jun 22nd, 2004 09:02:48 AM
I've said it before... I'll say it again, how hard is it to make a "documentary" bashing this presidency (any presidency for that matter but this one in particular). The circumstances surrounding Bush's election win and a terrorist attack, the likes of which the world has never seen, all make for difficult senarios for any president to deal with. Make a documentary about the solutions to the problems instead of whining like the smart fat kid that never got picked in gym class that he is.
Afraidofans by FluffyUnbound	Jun 22nd, 2004 09:03:52 AM
Well, an example of Moore's style of argument is referenced in the review: he finds someone who Bush was in the National Guard with, who then went to work for a company that did some financial adviser work for a relative of bin Laden's. This is presented as if it is a damning [or even relevant] revelation, complete with ominous music and editing, not to mention months of hype about the horrible "scandals" the film would reveal. The problem is that the ARGUMENT is inherently false, but the individual facts are true. He is thus beyond the threat of a lawsuit. If you sat down and investigated the family members of the business clients of the friends of people who served in the military with John Kerry [or anyone, for that matter, in any walk of life] you will find murderers, child molesters, people who are mean to their pets, etc. If I made a documentary that presented the "fact" that the cousin of a guy who went to an investment adviser where John Kerry's college roommate worked was a child molester, and did it in a way that convinced stupid people that this was significant, my approach would be fundamentally dishonest but not false. If I produced a documentary that included my voiceover narration, "John Kerry was born, coincidentally, on the same day that a member of the Ku Klux Klan died, and he once lived in a state where there were thousands of Ku Klux Klan members," and I accompanied this narration with a cartoon showing a bunch of Klan member taking over their hoods and robes and turning into a bunch of guys at a barbecue with Kerry, and showing Kerry slapping them on the back and laughing with them, it would again be fundamentally dishonest because although the individual facts would be true, the argument as a whole is an obviously deliberate deception. [Unless he's just really stupid, and doesn't understand what is and what is not a valid argument, and I can't believe that. Not quite. Close, but not quite.]
Thank You by Cablecasual	Jun 22nd, 2004 09:16:25 AM
I love this site sometimes, nothing amuses me more than the talkbacks when ever theres a story about Michael Moore. Some of the ranting is just great, I wish I lived in America sometmes (land of the free, so long as you don't disagree...), at least you have a left and right thats distinguishable from each other. Us Brits are stuck with two sides whose views are about an inch apart making the choice relativley meaningless. And don't forget that our Tony is (supposedly) a Socialist, which seems to be only a turd above a communist for you guys, despite the "special relationship" his leftism doesn't seem to be such an issue. Keep up the good work, and how about some more fat jokes, that'll show old Michael whos boss. Lets face it the guy is an entertainer with a political edge, (his TV Nation series were hilarious), and the more you guys rant the bigger he will get! (C'mon I've set the fat joke up for you right there). All we need now is for our Mark Thomas to start making films about Tone....
Thank You by Cablecasual	Jun 22nd, 2004 09:17:09 AM
I love this site sometimes, nothing amuses me more than the talkbacks when ever theres a story about Michael Moore. Some of the ranting is just great, I wish I lived in America sometmes (land of the free, so long as you don't disagree...), at least you have a left and right thats distinguishable from each other. Us Brits are stuck with two sides whose views are about an inch apart making the choice relativley meaningless. And don't forget that our Tony is (supposedly) a Socialist, which seems to be only a turd above a communist for you guys, despite the "special relationship" his leftism doesn't seem to be such an issue. Keep up the good work, and how about some more fat jokes, that'll show old Michael whos boss. Lets face it the guy is an entertainer with a political edge, (his TV Nation series were hilarious), and the more you guys rant the bigger he will get! (C'mon I've set the fat joke up for you right there). All we need now is for our Mark Thomas to start making films about Tone....
some people like bush I guess by skiff	Jun 22nd, 2004 09:17:41 AM
one thing I like about bush is that he is making it easy for the liberals to be re-elected in canada. his look out for number one oil lovin,money grubbin, gun huggin, bible thumping, get your own fuckin health care ways are don,t go over in canada.
afraidoffans by scaler	Jun 22nd, 2004 09:26:34 AM
The reason Moore hasn't been sued is pretty simple. Almost any time a group in the US protests against a film or other piece of media, or files a lawsuit over it, the incident ends up being painted as censorship (witness the outcry when Disney, for financial reasons, refused to release Farenheit 9/11). This seems especially true when the one filing the suit is a member of the government. So, if those libeled by Moore's films file a suit against him, they end up looking like they're the bad guys, even if the facts are on their side. If you add to this the fact that Moore is preaching almost entirely to the choir, you see that the largest effect of such a lawsuit would be to give Moore more amunition, while at the same time guaranteeing that, due to the controversy, more people would view Moore's films.
A liberal news site with an unfavorable review of Farenheit 9/11 by RodneyRoy	Jun 22nd, 2004 09:33:01 AM
Most liberals who have seen the movie have not been honest about the content. Yes, Moore is a master showman, but what about the substance behind the flash? A really great article by an honest liberal on Slate, discussing the inconsistencies of Moore's movie. http://slate.msn.com/id/210272 3/
Life Imitates Art / Imitates Life / Imitates Art, Ad Nauseum by Van Damned	Jun 22nd, 2004 09:34:32 AM
Conservatives say: 'Moore bad! War good! Iraq prison bad! Iraq oil good! Kerry bad! Bush good!' Liberals say: 'Bush bad! War bad! Moore kinda bad, but better than Bush! Oil bad (oops, need it to get to protests)! Kerry... um, what was the question again? Moderates, as usual, are left to wonder why it is that these two groups of knuckleheads can't see that one nut begat the other; there would be no Moore film if there were no truth to the allegations against Bush. There would be no focus on Bush if it weren't for Moore feeling his chance for greatness - in the form of smearing an American president - hadn't come (remember, there's no such thing as bad publicity). In the end, it comes to this: you either have to put up with political commentary in certain types of films, or you have to put on a brown shirt and do the goosestep. We might anyway, if things get much more oppressive. (Note to self: apply for job at the Department of Homeland Security, wipe out personal files) If you don't like it, don't go & see it. If you're worried it might sawy swing voters, don't; there are none.
Its being reported that Moore is by Raptorman101	Jun 22nd, 2004 09:38:21 AM
taking money from Hezbollah to promote his film ! I wonder how Harry feels about his hero now !
oh that wacky Mikey Moore by lopan	Jun 22nd, 2004 09:40:07 AM
i don't really care for his tactics, but what i do love about Mr. Moore is that he pisses off the conservatives! i could care less whether F9/11 is accurate or not, but watching the far right gets their panties all twisted up over it is SO much fun!
A couple of things... by godric	Jun 22nd, 2004 09:42:56 AM
1. I saw Around the World in 80 Days and liked it a lot, but in now way did I pick up anything conservative or just short of Christian proselytizing (okay, that might be spelled wrong). Not sure where Mr. Beaks is getting that from. 2. I have friends working in Iraq doing humanitarian aid--tons more than most of whiners will ever do--and they say that it's a lot more stable there than the press has led us to believe, especially in the Kurdish north. And I don't fully know the motives of anyone who got us into this war, but in the end, people are free who weren't before. In 1988, Sadaam Hussein told his army to begin the systematic extermination of the Kurdish people. Every family lost someone in the following attempt at genocide. Whole villages were gassed. And now that man is no longer leader of Iraq. A good thing has been done--sometimes doing good costs something. Deal with it.
Hey Stay Classy San Diego by RonBurgundy	Jun 22nd, 2004 09:44:58 AM
We get a bit worked up with this stuff. I suppose if there is something to get worked up about, it is the future of our country. And I think that Michael Moore has genuine concern...and has a certain idea of what his America is. And--obviously--it's not the conservative ideal. Just because people have different ideas of what "America" is or what it should be about...doesn't mean one of them is a patriot and the other "hates America." This is a big, complex country that tries to do a lot of things here and in the rest of the world. I tend to agree with Moore most of the time. I think he shoots himself in the foot by taking examples too far...or voicing theories that have very little (if any) evidence backing them up. But even though I'm no Ron Burgundy, I am in TV news...and I see every story that hits every day. And I'll tell you what--the amount of dirt on the Bush administration is overwhelming. With the number of Republicans writing scathing books about the president (Ron Suskind about former Treasury Sec. Paul O'Neil, and Richard Clarke plus the info about Colin Powell wanting out asap)...it's a testament to the administration's skill with the media that they're still afloat. The economy has been shit for a long time, the war in Iraq is a complete mess...Al Quaida seems to be just as dangerous now as they were pre-9/11. And still Bush is hanging in there. I think Michael Moore just wants to sum it all up in one movie...and even though his style can be frustrating even to people who agree with him...you have admire him for putting himself out there like he does. Sorry for the length.
This is the best review by Damer1	Jun 22nd, 2004 09:53:25 AM
check this out... BTW it is from a liberal... http://slate.msn.com/id/210272 3/ It's good to know that Moore continues to disregard the truth.
If Christopher Hitchens is a liberal... by Deep Cover	Jun 22nd, 2004 09:57:46 AM
...then I'm Mickey Mouse. Sorry, Repukes.
Why do Americans venerate the President as if he were some kind by JUDAS'S PRIEST	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:00:43 AM
Didn't you guys ditch the Brits during the War Of Independence? Wasn't the aim of that to build a Republic? So, why do you treat dissent against the President and his administration as tantamount to treason? Isn't it every American's right to bitch about the President if he or she so chooses?
this site by ZO	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:03:23 AM
should really stay away from political issues because no one cares what u guys think this isn't cool news
the argument that they're better off now, and that doing good th by RonBurgundy	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:09:23 AM
First of all--the humanitarian benefit was NOT the reason we went into Iraq. There are plenty of bad guys in the world killing their citizens...and we're not going everywhere. From everything that has been written about the Bush administration...they were going into Iraq from the beginning, and they were looking for an opportunity to do just that. The fact is--this is being called the "war on terror," not the "war on bad guys who kill their own people." Hussein was contained in Iraq as a terrorist threat...war was not necessary as they scared the public into thinking. Now that we've taken all the troops who were looking for al Quaida in Afghanistan and thrown them into Iraq...al quaida has been able to regroup and is now just as deadly. The only reason al Quaida is in Iraq now is because we're there, so that they can ambush us on a daily basis. I think it's become obvious that there are certain ways to fight this sort of war...and what we're doing isn't one of the ways. And let me say this (if you're still reading)... Bush came into office being hailed as a "compassionate Conservative," a middle-of-the-roader. But every moderate conservative in his cabinet has been either fired/replaced or completely alienated (Powell)...to the point where now Bush is only advised by an extremely right-wing core group. What really scares me...is that the world truly hates America right now. Does that make us safer from overseas threats? I don't see how it is. We are never going to be able to kill even close to all the terrorists around the world. We need to build an international network (not the "international" support we have in Iraq) and only through that can we have a chance to defend ourselves properly. Problem is...the world's leaders hate Bush and won't work with him. I don't think Kerry is the strongest candidate in the world...but he represents an internationalist ideal that the rest of the world can work with, and appreciate.
Who Gives A Fuck? Bush is Satan... by reni	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:10:22 AM
That's what I heard....
but does Moore still support the 'Iraqi resistance?' by Blacklist	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:14:31 AM
he sure seemed to be the personal cheerleader for the insurgents picking off contractors in Iraq for a while there, especially around Fallujah. Obviously, he supports the troops though. And it would smack of McCarthyism to say otherwise... mmm hmm. When is John Stossel going to get a film deal?
Yo, Afraidoffians (sp?) by Toby O Notoby	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:16:10 AM
For the most part it's because Moore, when cornered, qualifies his work as satire. For example, he could say "upon hearing about the Twin Tower attackes, Bush danced a jig" and then used clever back n' forth editing to make it look like Bush was dancing (they actually did do this once with Hitler). The defence is "Hey, it's a joke people". I'm guessing that's why Heston never sued Moore for editing two different speeches together to make it look like saying something he wasn't. Not to say he does stuff like that all the time, but it's one reason. Did anyone land in court about the fake British soldier rape story?
I hate lil' Bee-yach talkbackers by woj123	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:19:12 AM
1. Your review sucks. I've seen pre-schoolers chop up and put back together a newspaper better than this messed up, unorganized piece of Lit. 2. I like how its popular now to bash Michael Moore. Anyone in the press/film who is new and up and coming is cool, however once you become to POPULAR you are hated. Its the "geek way". During the release of Bowling for Columbine he was worshipped and now since he's on the cover of every newspaper and magazine he's hated. 3. first our idiot president was after bin laden and those pesky lil' terrorists. Oops forget about them lets go after Sadam and those wicked Weapons of Mass Destruction. OH NO!! we can't find WMD so lets now just bring peace and prosperity to Iraq.
Re: Subversive01057 by m2298	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:24:56 AM
"Human garbage" eh? It does your POV no credit when you bash neo-cons using neo-nazi type language.
The ol' "backhanded" review by Mooly	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:25:20 AM
So first off the intro calls Beaks a "slight liberal" This is followed by what seems like an hours worth of reading about how Beaks is too smart for Moore and too smart for the general public and too smart for anyone who goes to see a Moore film. Then we get a "review" where Beaks acts as if he invented the backhanded compliment. He flippantly tosses out jabs such as how Michael Moore doesn't make good documentaries and how the problem is that this film isn't funny in it's first hour. Yet he says the best part is the serious last hour but then he seems to be bashing Moore for exploiting the woman from flint. But finally he ends the review by saying this is the movie America deserves and it's all good. Why not just say, "This movie is great...if you like a fat fucking lier who only pretends to care about people but really eats baby heads. Or, you know, if you are one of THOSE liberals."
why is self questioning always considered hatred? by movieManiac	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:25:35 AM
if moore doesn't like bush and what the administration is doing, why is he anti america? Wake up people! Fifty years of national media, self importance and movies that reinforce self importance have so deeply ingrained themselves into the american psyche that you people don't even realise that there are good solid reasons why so much of the world hates America. The elected president pretty much decides what to do with the rest of the world, and when someone like Bush comes into power, its affects millions the world over. A little change in foreign policy can kill hundreds and change the lives of many forever. National media is so biased and insulated, that theres little or no coverage of whats happening in the world. And no, CNN is not unbiased. Try catching the BBC once in a while. Did you guys ever think that when Reagan was being covered 24/7 for a week, there were other things happening in the rest of the world? He was a great president and deserved to be honored, blah blah...but a week? This is a great country, for several reasons...but...it is a great country at the expense of other not so privileged ones...and THAT is wrong...too bad some guy is trying to talk about that...guess he must be a bastard.
Shame on you, Michael Moore by NFLRefugee	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:25:40 AM
I have absolutey no intention to vote for Bush. He is not progressive, he is to bogged down in his own religous dogma to see that he is not benefiting a good portion of the country (i.e. stem cell research) and he is letting the defecit get out of control. Not to mention he letting to many people die in Iraq for seemily nothing. That being said, I wish Michael Moore would shut his fat pie hole about how he knows the truth about this country and how we are all sheep. F you. Bush was on vacation 42% of the time. He wasn't at the White House but that doesn't mean that he was on the beach, he was working. He always brings his aides with him specifically Condi Rice and Andy Card. He also conducts meetings via conference calls etc. President's don't take vacations. They can't. But that isn't funny, is it Mike. Doesn't make your point that Bush is a dunce, does it Mike. Dickwad. I love the fact that Moore argues that Bush let Bin Laden's family leave the country (though some sources dispute that, knowing what I know about Moore I believe the other sources). Okay. If the Bush administration put his extended family in custody would Moore approve of that? Certainly not. Moore defended Bin Laden said that he was innocent until proven guilty. So is that reason to put his family in custody? Well, the FBI said that they knew nothing about the attacks, so why shouldn't they have been free to leave? You can't legally blame Bin Laden's second cousins for the attacks if they weren't involved. Knowing some of the bigots in this country, they would have been lynched. But I guess Moore would have approved of that. Since, he doesn't think they shouldn't have left the country. I would like to see a real documentary on Sept 11th. Something that tells me the truth, not Michael Moore's view of the world.
Re: Subversive01057 by m2298	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:27:26 AM
"Human garbage" eh? You do yourself no favor attacking neo-cons sounding like a neo-nazi.
There is a war coming... you sure you're on the right side? by TheGinger Twit	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:27:48 AM
Bush is going down. To bad he's got the keys to the nukes. Fuck'n typical.
sorry about posting twice by m2298	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:28:53 AM
Didn't know the order was screwed up...
Godric by Slim_Goodbody	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:30:00 AM
I'm not saying that overthrowing sadam was a bad thing, it's just that bush and his team have gone about in the worst possible way. With no broad international support, we are making more enemies and more problems for us down the road. Everyone knows that sadam was a bad guy. He just happens to be a bad guy sitting on a vast oil reserve and was easy payback (he once tried to kill my dad, etc.) There are far worse countries out there but they have nukes. Saudi Arabia and Pakistan and Iran have established links with Al Quiada while Iraq has very questionable ones. Are we more safe by going after Iraq?
Is it supposed to be spelled wrong? by scythe1138	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:30:30 AM
Because if it isn't, its kinda sad. Fahrenheit. Its spelled that way in the title too.
On "venerating" the President... by godric	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:35:21 AM
Here's my thought. Yes, it is every American's "right" to complain about the President, but does that help anything? Here was my thought with Clinton, and now with Bush: if you don't like a candidate, fight with all you've got to see that he's not elected. But then when he is, you've got to support him--he is the President and deserves some respect. A democracy doesn't work if the losing side always complains and moans and renders ineffective anything the elected-by-the-people President tries to do. You wonder why the country has been running in place the last 16 years? Not because of bad leadership entirely--but because the losing side won't respect the winning.
p.s. Beaks by Mooly	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:45:25 AM
Moore did NOT lie about the Disney fiasco either. Disney PAID for his movie to be made. That's right, they funded the whole thing. Yes, they said from the start that they didn' want to support it and wouldn't distribute it...but it was still MADE on their dime. THEN once it was finished they still sent reps to go watch it. It was only AFTER they watched it that they really put their foot down. How nice of them to pay for a movie to get made and then once it's finished try to sit on it and prevent it from being distributed. It would have been much more fair if they passed from the start and didn't fund it. I have little doubt that if Moore hadn't finished his movie in time for the election season then Disney would have had NO problems with it. why else would they continue funding it? Yes, his whole publicity scandal was a stunt to attract attention. GOOD! His whole movie is about how G.W.s regime has encouraged censorship and fear and they attack anyone who does something they don't like...and surprise, surprise, Disney won't distribute a movie because they are afraid of what the Bush's will do to them. This isn't just a publicity stunt. it is THE publicity stunt. It completely proves the whole point of Moore's movie!
Unfortunately, all FAHRENHEIT 9/11 will ultimately do is preach by SpyGuy	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:46:02 AM
Oh, there will be an initial interest thanks to all the controversy, real and manufactured, and it should be the number one film (until SPIDER-MAN 2 arrives, anyway). The main problem is, both Moore and the film cater far too much to those who are already voting against Bush. Instead of being an actual documentary, FAHRENHEIT 9/11 has become a propoganda film thanks to the "This is the film people don't want you to see" hype. Did anyone else catch the interview Matt Laurer did where he asked Moore if he thinks his film will persuade anyone who still plans on voting for Bush? Moore looked like a deer caught in headlights for several moments and you could see him thinking "Ohhhh, crap...I forgot about them" before replying, "That's a really good question." Should Bush be voted out of office? Of course he should, but Moore's film was made with an agenda from the get-go and most people (I think) realize that. If you hate Bush, you'll love FAHRENHEIT 9/11 and vice versa. And don't think that Moore's stubbly, chubby face won't be giggling like crazy when he accepts that Best Picture Oscar at next year's Academy Awards. Just you wait...
If Christopher Hitchens isn't a leftist, exactly what the fuck I by FluffyUnbound	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:09:42 AM
I've been reading Hitchens since Thatcher first came into office and maybe a little longer, and I can personally assure you that he is unapologetically left-wing.
Reply to Godric re: "Venerating" the Prsident by JUDAS'S PRIEST	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:11:57 AM
Godric, what is the point of living in a democracy if you expect everyone to get along just peachy after the voters have had their say. Every Democracy requires an opposition party (As in the Westminster system which most Western Democracies are based on) to maintain the checks and balances of the administration in charge. A President, just like the local Sheriff, has to earn his community's respect by doing what is in their best interests. An elected leader that blatantly disregards the wishes of the people such as Bush and Blair have done by unilaterally attacking Iraq does not deserve your repsect or good will. Politics is not like football. It isn't about being a good sport, but Americans seem to think it is. In my opinion, Al Gore should have fought Bush over the dubious vote count in Florida, all the way to the Supreme Court. Instead he took his PR's advice and admitted defeat. He didn't want to look like a bad loser. Someone should have told him that America has no room for people that finish second.
People, people by music maker	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:14:48 AM
Besides regurgitating phrases such as
Rights What Rights? by JUDAS'S PRIEST	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:23:11 AM
I was in Florence, Italy on the weekend and I was surrounded by young American tourists doing the European Road Trip thing. I spoke to some of these people and they seemed like a pretty decent bunch. They obviously had an interest in European art and culture; otherwise, they would've just flown direct to Amsterdam. Anyway, it got me thinking about how these kids probably haven't voted for a President yet and how I hope that they will in November. The depressing thought is, how many of them will vote for Bush? Here they were enjoying another country and its culture, soaking it all in and having the time of their lives. Yet, when they return home how many of them will remember that there is a wider world outside of America? And how many of them noticed what a massive influence the USA has on Europe and the rest of the world? My point is, if you are a freedom loving, open-minded individual, how can you possibly support President Bush and the GOP? How can you believe that their policies and actions have been beneficial to American and global security, the global economy and genuine international co-operation? Your vote, more than anyone else's really counts. Stop denying it. An American vote is worth a hundred European votes and probably a thousand African and Arab votes.
If you want a solid in-depth review and analysis.... by Rex Stetson	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:29:45 AM
Read Christopher Hitchens' review today in Slate: http://slate.msn.com/id/210272 3/ A pretty even-handed moderate, he points out a lot of the distortions and factual errors in the film that are as misleading as anything George W. is accused of doing. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but you should really read both sides of the story before you make up your mind. Otherwise you're just mindlessly parroting what Rush Limbaugh or Michael Moore say without thinking for yourself. That's what "they" want- to keep you from thinking critically! ( insert the "liberal media" or "vast right wing conspiracy" as your preference dictates) I don't know about everyone else, but I come to AICN every day for geeky genre film news, which is what it does best. There are a zillion political sites out there (for all political persuasions) that cover this type of political stuff better and more in-depth.
The Bush/Bin Laden family/Saudi connection and why this administ by Trader Groucho 2	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:35:45 AM
I haven't seen F911 yet, but whatever connection Moore makes between the Bush and Bin Laden families, I'm sure, is nowhere near strong enough. US government policy, through both Democratic and Republican administrations, has been to protect and prop up the anti-Democratic Saudi monarchy at the expense of freedom of expression in not just Saudi Arabia but the entire Arab world. The Saudi royals have returned the favor in a particularly personal way to the American leaders who have supported them by providing $$$ for such things as presidential libraries. They've been even tighter with the Bush family over the years, as the Bushes are in the same business as the Saudis. Oil. Saudi investment in Bush oil enterprises have kept the Bushes afloat. As for Iraq, the manner in which the US government has handled the occupation (and I agree with conservatives and Clinton - who supported the invasion but not the timing - that Saddam needed to go) has everything to do with the potential for somewhere in the range of $7 trillion (that's TRILLION, with a T) in oil contracts up for grabs. A UN invasion and UN-administered occupation would have leveled the playing field for non-US oil companies (read: competitors of the folks Bush has worked with here in the US) in the competition for post-war Iraq oil contracts. That the US came in with too few troops to stage a decent occupation, disbanded an Iraqi army that couldn't give a hang about Saddam in the first place, and did not act to confiscate all small arms immediately throughout the country, speaks to the managerial incompetence of the Bush administration. But given Bush's business record, why is anyone surprised by this???
Moore Rules by MinasTirithII	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:37:00 AM
Die you noecon (R) scumbag liars who suppor the liar in cheif!
Hitchens not Even Handed by MinasTirithII	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:38:05 AM
Just jealous. This movie owns. Bush must not win a 2nd term. He's a liar, a theif, and a complete bumbling idiot.
Bush Sucks by MinasTirithII	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:41:00 AM
How can anyone support a liar? A fool? A bumbling idiot? Moore will rock come Friday.
simple by AlgertMopper	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:41:44 AM
well, most of you can live in fear all you want, but i will not. That is all BushII has done. Made sure we lived in fear, and when someone ask questions about his doings they are considered a traitor. That's EXACTLY what you people are doing. Does M.M. hate America? I doubt it. And if you like living in fear so much much, go ahead and vote Bush again, and keep watching FOX news. And for you Harry. That coment you made about hype. Fuck you, what do think you do on this site every day. You Hype movies, you are the Hypocrite.
Moore True Patriot, (R) true Nazis by MinasTirithII	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:42:37 AM
that's what it's all about!
You know who would fix everything wrong with this country. by Ralphus	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:49:38 AM
Napoleon Dynamite that's who.
antoher (R) speaks stupidly by MinasTirithII	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:49:44 AM
"bviously Moore's best possible outcome would result in the ousting of President Bush." That;s pretty sutpid, since Bush is a great person to make films out of. Moron (R).
I don't buy it... by Darth Melkor	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:51:49 AM
I don't buy what this film says, not because it didn't happen. Maybe it did. But, Moore can make it say whatever he wants. I could make a film depicting Bush as Jesus if I wanted.
more Stupid (R) by MinasTirithII	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:52:56 AM
"I could make a film depicting Bush as Jesus if I wanted."........ could you, than shut your face and do it moron
Where be the WMD Dumbya? by MinasTirithII	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:53:57 AM
just asking
If you watch Fox News and actually believe what they say... by Atomic_Jedi	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:54:23 AM
You are a fucking moron. Republicans ditch hate and get in your face but when they run across a Democrat that yells at them back and actually make sense they cry like 4th grade girls.
Harry Bitching about Moore Advertising by MinasTirithII	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:56:40 AM
What a moronic statement. Did you not advertised Lord of the Rings 3 years before the first movie came out. Idiot.
Manipulative dogshit by Majseven	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:56:50 AM
This film is such crap. I can't even believe that it tries to portray itself as a "serious" political film, yet delights in taking certain events out of context to get shock factor. For instance, the scene where Bush answers a reporter's question, then tells him to watch his drive on a golf course. WHAT FUCKING PRESIDENT HASN"T DONE THIS? Look, if you're going to examine foreign policy and the decisions of this administration, do it. But any schlock that can edit can make a funny presidential blooper reel. Give me a damn break! Oh, and Hitchens is a leftist, but he still says the movie sucks and is gallingly slanted and flat-out propoganda. If you want to see the movie, by all means, do so. But if you are profoundly "Moved" by it, then you are a sheep akin to someone who believes everything he hears on Rush Limbaugh. Don't drink the Kool Aid.
Fact Checking by pmarq	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:59:31 AM
Got to hand it to you... Ad Hominem arguments really do make the world go round. There are so many accusations of 'sloppy facts' getting thrown around that its pretty obvious that they aren't meant to do anything but distract potential viewers... something you should understand, folks: The people 'debunking' the facts in this film are the same ones who told you there were WMD in Iraq, that Cheney doesn't still have connections to Halliburton, that America didn't fly several family members of bin Laden's family to safety after the bombings. All those 'facts' and many others, have been proven wrong over and over again, sometimes by the government's own admission! When Moore put these statements/accusations into the movie, nobody in the 'Liberal Media' was looking into it; it had all been on the internet for a couple years already, proven with reliable sources and citations taken from the mouths of the politicians themselves. Moore knew where the facts were to be had, and he took them. I feel sorry for those who watch this movie and think that everything is a lie; two years from now this film will look as solid as the fact base it is supported by: Pure Granite. Oh, and for those who would smear the internet as unreliable, most, if not all of the current investigations into this administration (12 in all, so far) have been seen as long as 3 years ago on the internet, so fuggedaboudit. Beaks, you sound like a nice guy, but its funny how you spent 2/3 of the article trying to sound like you are unbiased, when your view not of the movie, but of its politics, has clearly smeared your view. Say it together with me: "I don't want to be labelled LIBERAL by the conservative movement, so I'm going to slant to the right to make myself seem unbiased." Congratulations, you just took the Liberal Media Oath of Fealty.
Sue Moore by MinasTirithII	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:01:42 PM
If he lying as mush as so many (R) says he is, sue him. You won't see one law suit from the (R)
let Moore spew his nonsense. This is America. by cornstalkwalker	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:02:34 PM
Many Americans can think that by getting a different president in office, this war going to end. Well, its not. No matter who is in office, they are going to have to deal with the middle east terrorist problem. If we have a serious oil problem, we are going to have to fight for our lives. How many of you out there can actually farm for your own food, keep warm in the winter? You think with John Kerry or Ralph Nader or Mickey Mouse in office for all it matters the psychos in the world are gonna stop cutting Americans heads off? Doesn't matter what i write here, people already have their views of G Bush and J Kerry. Just make sure you go out and vote. It's our right as Americans.
A fantastic review of Moore's film by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:03:17 PM
http://slate.msn.com/id/210272 3/
Cornstalkwalker - sure Moore can spew his venom by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:08:31 PM
... this is America after all. He can say all he wants. He can promote hatred all he wants. After all, the KKK gets to march under free speech too, right? I can also offer my opinion that he is a fucking wacko, that his films suck and that his supporters are idiots. He completely skews everything in the direction he wants, leaving out key facts that might present a problem for his case. Hell, he'll even contradict himself, if he can skew something else to make the right look bad somehow.
MinasTirithII by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:09:27 PM
... in Syria. Just responding...
skiff...... by payton 34	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:09:39 PM
I hope that means you are going to go and vote for the Liberals on Monday. As big a group of morons as they are at least thet aren't evil like the Conservatives. God help us if the Consevatives get in and Bush is reeleceted. Goodbye Canada.
Beaks - Verbosity Does NOT Equal Intelligence - Just Ask Dubya by Wet Soul	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:13:49 PM
First off, Beaks needs an editor more than Stephen King. You could've cut 66% off that review, man (or as my Lit professor used to say: "Verbosity doesn't mean you're smart"). Next, for those of you griping about people griping about the President - good for you. I'll continue to gripe about the President and you're more than welcome to gripe about my griping. That's the beauty of America and free speech. Finally, Dubya's mission to "Get Bin Laden" rings with the same sincerity as OJ "getting" the man who "killed his wife." This ain't rocket science: Dubya and his warlords got caught in a lie ("WMDs! "WMDs! They're EVERYWHERE!"), and while they back-pedal American soldiers and civilians - and non-American innocents - die, every single day. The solution? It's pretty simple: our boys are dying overseas. Get them home, now.
Bush=American Hero; MinasTirithII = Hateful Angry Loser by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:16:48 PM
Republicans are Nazis, huh? Whatever. You and your ilk are pathetic fools. I love how you all want free speech and thought (or maybe you really don't), unless someone disagrees with you. Then it's time to bust out the hateful rhetoric. It can't even be a thoughtful debate, like "this is why Republicans are wrong, and these are all the facts." No, it's gotta be Nazi this, Hitler that. It's gotta be a concerted effort to discredit those that you hate, and to spread that hatred as much as possible. Well, here's something for ya, buddy boy, we ain't going away. Republicans are getting sick of shit from people like you and it's gonna be fucking on. Eat a c0ck, b1tch.
Payton34 - more hate from you too? by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:20:41 PM
Why does it gotta be that conservatives are evil? Is there no valid disagreement with the left? Is it the case that if one dares to disagree with the holier than thou left, that person is evil? Nice that you have such an open mind and appreciate debate.
facts, schmacks...I just want to laugh by the_pissboy1	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:21:24 PM
I didn't care that Roger and Me or Bowling For Columbine were not accurate as I watch movies for ENTERTAINMENT. Moore's films are just funny. Looking for truth in a documentary is like looking for an 18 year old virgin in TJ. They might exist but it's near impossible to find.
At least Moore isn't a wimp. by Homer Sexual	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:22:17 PM
I'm not the biggest fan of M.M. He dresses horribly, has a big mouth, etc. But as a proud to be Democrat, I thank God for someone who has the courage of his convictions and doesn't apologize or try to placate the right wing. Republicans certainly didn't "venerate" Clinton, I don't respect Bush, either. The right has many attack dogs, but how many do we have on the left. And, yes, Fahrenheit 9/11 will only preach to the converted, but that's the same as Limbaugh, etc, on the flip side. The only media outlets that don't preach solely to the converted are those that supposedly maintain "moderate" or "neutral" stance.
Foolish and damning statements by Saxster	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:24:12 PM
"The great triumph of the Bush II Administration has been their ability to secure mass media compliance under the threat of shutting off access to its key players, thereby ensuring, depending on the outlet
Homer - don't try to equate Moore... by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:24:22 PM
... with Rush Limbaugh. Limbaugh actually bases his arguments in facts. And that scares liberals.
hmmm by Homer Sexual	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:27:17 PM
Interesting that Lamerz feels his people are unfairly labeled as hateful, then signs off his post with "eat cock, bitch." But, see, he's a Republican so at least he won't apologize for his views.
If you love TRUTH - you'll hate this movie by Saxster	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:28:34 PM
Let's get one other point straight: The Left deal in more lies than any side I've seen in my lifetime. Ths simple honest answer to the questions that surround this propagandist piece of tripe: If you like your documentaries loaded with fabrications and editorialized hyperbole then you'll worship at the feet of sycophantic scumbags like Michael Moore. If you value TRUTH, save your $$ and go see something else. That's the best advice you'll hear about this movie. What politics you have shouldn't even decide the issue. The movie is bull and everyone knows it -- especially the Left. The fact is, they don't care. That's what propaganda is all about -- just twisting the viewpoints of others, regardless of what is right or wrong -- it's all about a goal or a position for the sake of power.
Well, Homer, do you think there is any reasoning with... by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:32:17 PM
... people who call you a Nazi for having an opinion different from their own? Um, no. I've played this game before. If I ever offend anyone who engages in thoughtful debate I'll apologize. You are right though, that was inappropriate, so I apologize for that part. But, I stand by everything else. MinasTirithII appears to be hateful and spiteful towards anyone who dares disagree with his set of beliefs. Bla bla bla bla.
Well, Homer, do you think there is any reasoning with... by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:32:57 PM
... people who call you a Nazi for having an opinion different from their own? Um, no. I've played this game before. If I ever offend anyone who engages in thoughtful debate I'll apologize. You are right though, that was inappropriate, so I apologize for that part. But, I stand by everything else. MinasTirithII appears to be hateful and spiteful towards anyone who dares disagree with his set of beliefs. Bla bla bla bla.
by cptrios	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:33:21 PM
It's easy to say Limbaugh and Moore base what they say on facts if you believe that something is a fact as easily as so many people obviously seem to do...the world would be a better place if the Hannitys, Moores, Limbaughs, Coulters, and LaRouches didn't exist. Liberal or conservative, we all owe it to ourselves to find things out on our own before we go preaching what the blowhards tell us. And honestly, Lamerz...and American hero? Come on.
R.C.' by R.C. the "Wise"	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:35:30 PM

Harry - your fucking Talkback system SUCKS! by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:39:05 PM
Why, oh why, can't the posts appear IN THE RIGHT FUCKING ORDER! Plus your friggin web server sucks and is ass slow half the time. UPGRADE???? HELLLLOOO?
Any post the Slate review yet? by Mooly	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:43:47 PM
I hear it is the ONLY reliable review in the WHOLE WORLD! Forget Cannes and forget the tons of raving reviews from actual movie critics...many of whom admit they don't even like Moore yet this is his best film yet. None of them know what they are talking about and the ONE negative reviewer does.
Darth_Dead - More open mindedness. Great by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:47:41 PM
So only Republicans write stupid things, huh? Libs would never do that, right? "Bush is Satan" and "Republicans are Nazis" are intelligent debate? Your post was just so thought provoking and intelligent. Fucking hypocrite. And I'm glad to see that you appreciate that someone can legitimately have a different opinion than you.
Why are people so riled up? by the_pissboy1	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:50:40 PM
Moore has a POV, like all filmmakers, and he unabashedly pushes it. Unlike some documentarists he's not trying to hide his agenda or hide what his ultimate theme is. He blatantly slams down his view and does nothing but push it. Do I believe any of his nonsense? nope. do i care if it lacks veracity? nope. it's a movie, made a by a human, so naturally it'll be a flawed, subjective piece. there's no escaping that. politics aside, I just want to be entertained.
Woops... I accidently pressed enter. Anyways here's my opinion by R.C. the "Wise"	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:51:58 PM
As a democrat, I may be going slightly against the status quo towards Michael Moore. I respect Moore and his motives but he is not above his share of derision. Moore is not a great documentary director. Like any advocate, he supports his point with an abundant amount of facts, perceptions, opinions, and skewed conclusions. Some of his tactics come off as mudslinging rather than journalism. For that I'm disinclined to concur with all of his conclusions. However, if you relabel him as a political satirist, rather than simply a rogue Liberal documentary director, he's one of the greatest of all time. My opinion on our president and his administration is simple, I respect the titles of their positions but not the people filling those positions. It doesn't take a genius to realize that he is not a leader. 2 years ago, from the ashes of tragedy rose the unification of the American citizens. This administration, in impeccible fashion, managed to separate, enrage, polorize, and aggrevate Americans and our allies. If this administration is reinstated for another term, I seriously fear for what may happen to our country. The rest of the world always had contempt towards this country, now thanks to the contining decisions, attitudes, and arrogance of the Bush Adminstration, they despise us.
DarthDead by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:52:35 PM
Are you afraid of Republicans? Are you afraid that your liberal propaganda might be wrong? Are you afraid that your heroes don't hold up under scrutiny? Is that why you need to "get rid of" the Republican posters who you hate so intensely?? Well, we ain't going away, and we ain't taking your shit anymore. Live with it... and see a fucking therapist about that hate problem.
Slate review... by the_pissboy1	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:53:12 PM
Is not a review of the film as a film. It's a review of the film's contents and how the reviewer thinks they stack up vis-a-vis his view of the world. What the hell? It's like reading a review of The Passion and the reviewer babbles about his view of Christianity. I don't fucking care about that. Just review the film as it stands...regardless of outside influences. Does it entertain or amuse? That's ALL that matters when reviewing a film.
Huh? by JWolf	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:53:16 PM
So I guess the bottom line is - a) Beaks is liberal, b) The film is unbalanced, c) Moore lied about Disney, and d) While political discourse is healthy, the film is freqently FACTUALLY DISTORTED. Sure, who wouldn't line up around the block and pay $11 to see this?...
DeadDarthFuckwad by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:58:32 PM
My bad, I didn't realize you were a fucking comedian. Your schtick is hilarious.
TurdDarthReagan by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:01:42 PM
Bring it on. Your shit is weak anyway. "Oh, the fucking Republicans should be banned, then we'd not have to listen to illiterate fucking Republicans. I'm so clever! Look at me mommy, I'm getting attention!"
Myself? No, You by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:04:53 PM
Never had a problem laughing at myself. I am laughing at you, not with you.
It's funny. by FluffyUnbound	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:05:20 PM
On the Bridget Jones 2 talkback we have people complaining because the movie doesn't contain enough feminist political content. And then on the talkback to THIS movie, we have people like pissboy claiming that the film can be enjoyed and discussed without reference to its political content. What do you want to talk about, the lighting? The color scheme of Moore's hat? Strangely, apparently light entertainments are to be judged for their semiotic political content and potential for creating false consciousness, but a DIRECT POLITICAL STATEMENT should be analyzed only as a series of abstract visual cell frames and sounds. OK, that makes sense.
DeadCarth by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:06:07 PM
You are not worth my time anymore. Peace.
Changeling - Moore's movie will have a great first weekend by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:08:37 PM
... as all his sheep rush out to see it. Then it will die a quick death.
Moore can't be effectively sued because... by Gislef_crow	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:08:56 PM
1) He himself has described his movie as an "op-ed" piece. You can't be sued for libel for expressing and publishing an opinion in the US; 2) Moore has described his work, and his movie, as "satire." You can't be sued for libel for publishing satire in the US; 3) Moore's movie is essentially a critique. You can't be sued for libel for publishing a critique in the US. 4) To have standing to sue for libel, you have to show direct and substantive damages. Even if Bush waits until he's voted out of office, how would he (or anyone else) possibly "prove" he was voted out directly because of and to any significant degree by Moore's movie? Any libel suit brought against Moore would be tossed out of court by most U.S. judges under current standing law and precedent in the U.S.
Robin Williams should reprise his role as Popeye so Michael Moor by Look At My Knees	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:09:05 PM
You guys are lame. Bowling for Columbine was awesome! That part when the dog wearing a hunter's vest shot that dude was hilarious! Classic cinema... right up there with "Eegah!". Who didn't like Roger and Me? James Stewart and a six foot tall imaginary bunny rabbit.. what's not to love? And Canadian Bacon - the movie that killed John Candy. Useless bum. I expect this adaptation of Ray Bradbury's classic expose of the Nixon administration to be a barrel full of explosive hijinx and wacky capers as Bush stumbles his way into the desert to drop acid and blow stuff up. Keep up the good work, Wimpy! Nevermind the naysayers!
I stopped before you even got to the review by Fantomex	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:11:11 PM
I saw Al Franken on Hardball, and he's still one of the funniest comedians alive today.
One thing by Redbox	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:11:26 PM
It's now become the critically "in" thing to mock Moore as a Liar and a Huckster. Truth is, whatever he has become, he is not comparable to the manipulations of our current government or talk radio. Why? Because he's only made about five films in twenty years! What kind of voice is that! This outrage by people, this pure hate, is very telling and it skews the reviewer's carefully worded and subtle attack. Moore scares conservatives like Malcolm X scared racists. You come running out you front door gun in hand ready to fight, not realizing you uncover your own irrational defensiveness. When a white man said he would protect his family with a gun or by any means, the media and audience would say "yeah! me too!". When Malcolm X said he would protect his family with a gun or by any means necessary, the crowd would gasp in fear. So crowd, you listen to Rush and Hanity and all the rest. You watch Fox news. why does one voice from the left, from the common working class values that Moore believes in, why does it scare you so? The more you yell, the more I think there's more to come. But I don't know, Liberals or moderates are not the venomess type that you crazed conservatives are. You have Fox News. We have NPR. You have "Matlock". We have "Homicide: Life on the Street". You have Jesse Helms. We have Mario Cuomo. You have movies like "Rambo", "Delta Force" and "The Green Berets". We have movies like "Full Metal Jacket", "The Thin Red Line" and "Apocalypse Now". You have "Benny Hill". We have "Monty Python". You like Beatles the Red Album. We like Beatles the Blue album. You traded John McCain in. Thanks We Love Him. Cheer Up!!
Ahhh, the sad, pathetic, obsessive attempt of demonization of co by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:15:16 PM
Ain't it sweet!
Fluffy... by the_pissboy1	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:16:09 PM
Why not whether or not it's entertaining? The veracity of the content doesn't matter as it's just a movie...lies aT 24 FPS. I judge them all the same way: make me care about what's happening on screen for 2 hours. That's all I ask. Don't drop the ball. You've got my undivided attention now dance for me monkey, dance I say! .................. Whether the movie is about the fastest cup stacking champ alive or some dildo president (name any president of the past 30 years and dildo is applicable), i just want to see something that makes me care what happens next. You wanna beat the shit out of Jesus or mock a president and his war...I don't much care, just dance for me monkey.
Reefer...it's the american way by the_pissboy1	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:18:23 PM
Make a buck anyway you can. Exploit natives and africans, put kids in forced labor, create an operating system, get loans from the gov't to start a railroad...I don't freaking care how, but make your buck. Will it offend some people? so. fuck'em. We're not living in the USA so we can all work 9 to 5 jobs and take home some measely 75k salary. Talk about a quick route to a banal death in bed at 70.
If you think you have Apocalypse Now, your understanding of the by FluffyUnbound	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:19:08 PM
And no, I don't have a direct line to Coppola. But the meaning of "Heart of Darkness" can't be mistaken, and it certainly can't be described as liberal. Sorry. Conrad says, Pick another film. You can keep using "The Thin Red Line" though, you're welcome to that unbelievable pile of dung.
F 9/11 IS FULL OF HOLES! Moore by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:26:35 PM
Moore
Anyone can manipulate folks, but it takes a special kind of crav by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:26:41 PM
Bada Bing!
misplaced passion by floody	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:28:16 PM
y'all are certainly a passionate lot. Why don't you use that passion and do something...get informed, use that knowledge, then go vote. A lot of you are just spouting off what other people are telling you - who cares if you are democrat and republican...go think for yourselves.
Dearth Dead Reagan by Mooly	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:31:13 PM
WTF? First fo al, how am I a retard when I back up my arguements yet all you do is name call. Second, please explain how I am a racist, when "Mooly" is a nickname I've had for year based on a shortened version of my actual last name? Since you are apparently the genius of the boards, I'm sure you have a logical answer to both those questions.
if Gandalf ran for president, I'd totaly be there... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:31:28 PM
...until then, no one's gonna be happy. Still, I can see Michael Moore trapping Gandalf into an incriminating situation the way he ambushed Heston. It was funny as all hell, but it wasn't very cool.
DeadDarthLoser by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:31:40 PM
First of all, that post wasn't for you. Liked getting some attention for once, didn't you? Second, I already told you I'm done with you. You are a waste of my time.
Just a few reminders... by BubbleWrap	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:33:11 PM
I hate politics on this site, but I make an exception in this case. Yes, Bush may not be the smartest knife in the drawer, he may have stepped on a few toes on the Iraq deal, but let's think of a few things before we start burning crosses in the White House lawn. 9/11 was being planned LONG before Bush was in office. Think back to the World Trade Center bombing part 1, the USS Cole, the African Embassy bombings... oh yeah, Clinton was Johnny on the Spot when all that happened, wasn't he? Do you think for one second that if Gore were president, there wouldn't be just as much controversy about what was/wasn't done about 9/11, security, etc. etc. etc. Fact is, if Bush isn't in office after the election, Al Qaeda still ain't pulling up stakes and calling it a day. You can't tell me for one second that your lives are any better when a Democrat or Republican is in office. And I am sorry, but John Kerry has about as many aswers to all these problems as a stuttering 9-year old on Jeopardy.
although... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:35:20 PM
...Michael Moore's films are coming real close to being filed under the "fantasy" section of video stores...all he needs is a couple of vampires and werewolves! By the way, GWBush is the sexiest tomby beanpole on the planet!
I'm annoying...but so is Michael Moore... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:37:38 PM
...he's just jealous that Mel Gibson's controversy was more interesting, and paid off more than his ever will.
Americans vs. Americans by Lightmaker	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:39:07 PM
I have been reading these FAHRENHEIT 9/11 talkbacks for weeks now and finally have to throw my 2 cents in. The hateful, bickering along party lines is pretty obscene. The fact is that most people are moderate in their views and if people could calm down and listen to each other for a second, they would probably find a lot of common ground. But the fact is that we have hard core right wingers in charge of the current administration, and they and their more rabid supporters are making the moderate conservatives look bad. And many of the hardcore liberals that are responding with equal fervor are making the moderate liberals look bad. If Bush and his cronies have accomplished anything, it is the huge rift in America right now. Ever heard the saying "divide and conquer"? The fact is that extreme anything doesn't work. If you do any kind of objective research about the Bush admin, it is very clear that they are extremely corrupt and doing major damage to this country. I'll avoid debating the specifics, but the truth is out there and not hard to see. The conservatives have it tough right now. Their leader is one of the most hated people in history, here in America and especially in the world. That doesn't make all or even most Republicans "bad" or "nazis". The problem comes when normally rational people start raving like many of the people in these talkbacks. That kind of blind fervor IS what enabled the Nazis to rise to power. Blind, unquestioning devotion to anything (such as a political party) is a bad, bad thing. This us vs. them, Americans versus Americans bullshit has got to stop.
Zombie - Good suggestion... by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:40:22 PM
... but how do you know that I haven't already served?
What Hitchens doesn't allow for in his broadsides against Michae by Trader Groucho 2	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:40:23 PM
Moore's purpose here is to stir up the pot, to encourage people to ask questions, and do it in an entertaining way. If Moore glosses over the theft of the presidency via the Jeb Bush/Kathleen Harris Florida shenanigans, it's possible that's because he needed to bring in his film at around two hours. If on some issues it feels like Moore's trying to have it both ways, remember, facts on the ground changed forever on September 11. Any attempt to contextualize the past three years in a single film is bound to fall short of the level of thoroughness demanded by Hitchens. Moore put this together quickly to be current and immediately relevant. This ain't a left-wing tome leisurely expanded from a Nation piece.
Moore is using gullible celebrities to market his movie by SexyBeast	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:41:45 PM
Moore doesn't believe his own movie. He does however believe that Bush has to go. So he made up this movie of half truths and conspiracy theories to take votes away from Bush, it doesn't matter if it is true or not. But celebrities are so primitive and naive in their political views they do believe this stuff, so they hype the movie for Moore. Of course Moore has contempt for these stupid people, but he's happy to have their support.
I say, bring back the Whig party baby...YEAH! by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:41:49 PM

TraderGroucho by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:42:18 PM
Nice try on covering up for Moore's exclusions. Fact is, the film is riddled with holes.
what the world needs now... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:43:03 PM
...is love, sweet loooovvveee...
I'd like to screw everyone on this talkback...boy or girl... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:44:42 PM
...cuz I'm just that f***ed up, baby...
...but seriously, I think everyone should see this movie drunk.. by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:45:40 PM
...it would be a lot funnier and we'd all take it a little less harshly...wether you agree with it or not...
lamerz...... by payton 34	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:45:54 PM
I'm not trying to piss in anyone's pot. I don't know if you are from Canada or not. I am and if the Conservatives get in they will change the face of health care in this country that will never be repaired. Private health care is bad and the Liberals know this. I shouldn't just be rich people that get medical attention.
Zombie - No ... by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:46:14 PM
... i haven't. I'm too damn old now. My point in lobbing the question out there was that the assumption was made before the question was even asked.
But Moriarty by Vern	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:46:26 PM
You talk about bullshit like Daredevil, Punisher, Superman etc. for literally months and months, years sometimes. But you're already sick of half a week of promoting a documentary. What's the deal man? I think there is definitely something more than just "I don't like Michael Moore." I think all americans should be happy that somebody is able to so masterfully use the media to finally say what we've all been yelling at the TV for years.
maybe if more politicians were gay, there'd be more love to pass by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:48:45 PM
...but then, Michael Moore would have a heyday with THAT...think of the different kinds of ambush Moore could pull off Charlton-Heston-style with that, beeeaaatttccchhh!!!
to clarify by payton 34	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:50:35 PM
I'm talking about the election in Canada on Monday, not yours in Novemeber.
Maybe if Michael Moore was a dog, the world would be a better pl by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:53:31 PM
... cuz he'd just sit around all day and lick his ballz.
but what would Brian Boitano do... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:54:27 PM
...if he made a documentary about Michael Moore that was a manipulative as Moore is with his opinions? I think Moore should just stick a camera on Marylin Manson and just film him talking for 2 hours...it'd be interesting as all hell...
A Better Review by Sobewankinobi	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:56:43 PM
slate.msn.com
Moore of the Same by scrivener	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:57:53 PM
That review was as full of as many contradictions as a week at the John Kerry campaign headquarters. Moore ruined his credibility when he filmed Bowling for Columbine - while it's an artfully done film - it's fake, false, fabricated. Moore makes constant use of trick tabloid editing techniques to make his bullshit sound more credible. I managed to catch (between your tangent conservative bashing) that Moore's 9/11 is really just Moore of the Same(tm) - artfully crafted tabloiding. The only thing that really separates liberals and conservatives is their view on social issues (Gay marriage, abortion, right to bear arms, etc)... when a President supports social issues the other party dosn't like, they have to resort to fabricating conspiracy in an attempt to regain power - as attacking the social issues isn't good enough - since that's the precise reason the majority put that president in the office to begin with. The same happened to Clinton - the guy was a retard and a womanizer - but so were many US presidents - conservatives just didn't like his stance on certain social issues. Irragardless, Farenheit 9/11 is a pointless, deceptive, and hatemongering film that is ultimately about nothing really, as it can't prove any of the allegations it tries to make. Were it a student research paper, it would have to conclude that the hypothesis was wrong - else get a flunking grade. Palme d'Or my big hairy ass - out of all the great (see: better) movies at this year's Canne, the panel of way-left liberal judges give best picture to Moore, because he's liberal, not because his film accomplished a single goddamned thing. Apparently even you, the liberal hatemongering Mr. Beaks, noticed that Moore's film is shit. Give up. Bush hasn't done a damn thing wrong and the Florida debacle didn't have a leg to stand on. All the votes were counted - and who was it again that was trying to disenfranchise the absentee and military service ballots? GORE! That's who. Shut the fuck up and use your brain instead of your hormones - thats what makes a conservative.
BTW Not a Right Winger by Sobewankinobi	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:58:11 PM
Unfairenheit 9/11 The lies of Michael Moore. By Christopher Hitchens Posted Monday, June 21, 2004, at 12:26 PM PT One of the many problems with the American left, and indeed of the American left, has been its image and self-image as something rather too solemn, mirthless, herbivorous, dull, monochrome, righteous, and boring. How many times, in my old days at The Nation magazine, did I hear wistful and semienvious ruminations? Where was the radical Firing Line show? Who will be our Rush Limbaugh? I used privately to hope that the emphasis, if the comrades ever got around to it, would be on the first of those and not the second. But the meetings themselves were so mind-numbing and lugubrious that I thought the danger of success on either front was infinitely slight. Nonetheless, it seems that an answer to this long-felt need is finally beginning to emerge. I exempt Al Franken's unintentionally funny Air America network, to which I gave a couple of interviews in its early days. There, one could hear the reassuring noise of collapsing scenery and tripped-over wires and be reminded once again that correct politics and smooth media presentation are not even distant cousins. With Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11, however, an entirely new note has been struck. Here we glimpse a possible fusion between the turgid routines of MoveOn.org and the filmic standards, if not exactly the filmic skills, of Sergei Eisenstein or Leni Riefenstahl. To describe this film as dishonest and demagogic would almost be to promote those terms to the level of respectability. To describe this film as a piece of crap would be to run the risk of a discourse that would never again rise above the excremental. To describe it as an exercise in facile crowd-pleasing would be too obvious. Fahrenheit 9/11 is a sinister exercise in moral frivolity, crudely disguised as an exercise in seriousness. It is also a spectacle of abject political cowardice masking itself as a demonstration of "dissenting" bravery. In late 2002, almost a year after the al-Qaida assault on American society, I had an onstage debate with Michael Moore at the Telluride Film Festival. In the course of this exchange, he stated his view that Osama Bin Laden should be considered innocent until proven guilty. This was, he said, the American way. The intervention in Afghanistan, he maintained, had been at least to that extent unjustified. Something
Michael Moore is my sister...no... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:58:47 PM
...he's my daughter...he's my sister AND my daughter...and Project Greenlight shuld do an all-out expose on the making of his films...it'd be GREAT reality TV drama, baby...
MICHAEL MOORE by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:59:24 PM
Bada Bing!
Ruby Ridge by SLEAZY DINOSAUR	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:59:35 PM
The Ruby Ridge incident happened in 1992, while Bush was still president, so the Clinton administration didn't exist yet. Michael Moore should make sure he checks his facts, but so should everyone else.
Lemon Pie by flossygomez	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:59:36 PM
I like lemon pie. mmmmmm! Lemon pie is good. I'm going to have it for lunch. Mmmmmm! Lemon Pie!
THE TERRORIST by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:02:12 PM
Bada Bing!
MOORE WANTS HEZBOLLAH"S SUPPORT by babblerouser	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:05:27 PM
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/n ews/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=390 79 fucking traitor.
Zombie - Actually W did serve... by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:06:32 PM
... in case you forgot. Oh yeah, so everyone that supported breaking away from England in the 1770's served right? And everyone that supported participating in WWI and WWII served right? Send everyone that supports the war to the war. Nevermind that people have to be back home, running the cities, the economy, the country, police, fire, homeland security, stock market, financial sector, R&D, and on and on. Stop everything while the war goes on, and send ALL the supporters to the front lines. Please. Oh, and on a personal note, I wish I had served when I was of age. That was a personal mistake.
Interesting... by Lightmaker	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:09:43 PM
...that no one here has actually SEEN this movie, yet feel so confident in condemning it. It DID win the Palm D'Or and got positive reviews from NY Times, Washington Post, BBC, Ebert and Roeper, Rolling Stone, Time Magazine, Premier, London Times and even FOX NEWS to name a few. Pretty impressive credentials that are difficult to write off, even by the Bush admin spin machine. It would also be interesting to actually talk about a movie we have SEEN and perhaps the CONTENT of the movie rather than on the weight or eating habits of the director.
CAN by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:09:50 PM
Bada Bing!
Educating DearthDeadReagan by Mooly	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:10:01 PM
So you judge me purely on my nickname then? That's extremely smart of you. It's funny how I have never heard the term "mooly" used as a racial slur EVER IN MY LIFE. Also funny how nobody else but you apparently has. So for the sake of fairness I did a google search. GASP! Guess how many references there were to racism and/or racial slurs? ZERO! There were plenty of others with the same nickname, including some executive of Intel. Mooly is also the name of a camera that uses a clockwork motor to run. Mooly is also the name of a type of refrigerator as well as a form of "anthropod insect". There is a Mool Garden peninsula as well as a bunch of mumbo-jumbo dealing with mathematics. So it looks like you are outnumbered by the facts. Nice try though.
Let by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:13:15 PM
Bada Bing!
babblerouser by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:14:05 PM
Thank you, I was just about to post that link to the article on worldnet.
?uestlove (from the Roots) had the best t-shirt ever... by Lost Skeleton	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:14:14 PM
on it was President Bush: American Psycho. Nuff said "2" 6/30/04
message board by moviemaven	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:16:49 PM
Unfortunately, from what I've read, it doesn't appear that anything has been accomplished on this board. All that has happened is name-calling and party-bashing. (On both sides.) Everyone is entitled to an opinion whether you agree with it or not. It's really a shame that in this country people spend more time thinking of their next jab against the other party than really researching the facts and debating them. Personally, I don't agree with Michael Moore's political views. But I have made that decision for myself--not taken it from Fox News or anyone else. And even though I don't agree with him, he still has every right in our country to produce that film and have it viewed by those who wish to see it. It seems though that even he has resorted to using satire to make his jabs at the president as opposed to only stating the facts. But that's his prerogative and right and I'm not about to fault him for it.
HEZBOLLAH & ME by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:18:31 PM
Bada Bing!
BRINGITON - but see, the left is allowed to have inconsistencies by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:18:32 PM
When the right does it, it is a part of an evil conspiracy to take over the world!
What did that shirt say guss? by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:20:59 PM
President Bush: American Hero? 'nuff said.
This Liberal Minded website by Immortal_Fish	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:21:33 PM
I don't care how balanced Beaks was in his review. Some of his points rouse me. - - - - - - - "and, most dangerously, talk radio" -- which, by design, is the largest grass roots movement across the country. Pay them no heed, yes? Pay more heed to the special interest groups that Kerry himself will oust? - - - - - - - "recently justified by the non-partisan 9/11 committee" -- GORELICK is non-partisan? GORELICK, who herself is a partner in the law firm that backs the bin Laden family? She is reputable, and yet we are expected to find Dick Clark and his American Grandstand innocent for shuttling these same people out of the country? Better yet, we are expected to ignore this fact yet focus on the Bush ties to bin Laden? Which way do you want it, Kerry? - - - - - - - Overall, this review was a step in the right direction, as far as this far-left liberal site is concerned. Still, it remains mired in its own ignorance. I'm not a Bushie, but I know what a Kerry smells like when I see it. This site is as evenly balanced in its reporting as is the quoted Washington Post.
AMEN LAMERZ! You by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:22:08 PM
Bada Bing!
ImmortalFish - facts are dangerous to liberals! by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:24:18 PM

simple question to all the Moore haters: If he's such a dirty fu by Tall_Boy	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:27:58 PM
come now, considering how litigious a society we live in, wouldn't have all of MOORE'S supposed FILTHY FUCKING LIES in BFC have spawned an assload of lawsuits? So far he's had one based on that movie and that's from Timothy McVeigh's buddy who stuck the gun in his mouth (he says Moore tricked him). No lawsuits from the NRA. No lawsuits from Chareston Heston. No fucking NOTHING! And if 9/11 is just full of FILTHY FUCKING LIES then when it hits will you really see ONE lawsuit hit at all? Here's an answer for you crazy right wingers - BECAUSE HE'S TELLING THE TRUTH!
KERRY THE REAL ZOMBIE by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:34:52 PM
Bada Bing!
"The left has CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS and your local newspaper yet yo by Sidious-1138	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:36:13 PM
Sorry, but if you still really belive that in the "liberal media" myth YOU are sad. Do some REAL research, read some foreign press coverage of US and world events and you will see what I mean. It seems that to some members of the far right, pretty much anything that doesn't agree with their rather black and white and, yes, NARROW view of things is "liberal". Do you people even really understand what liberal means?
BILL O by ChristianZane	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:37:10 PM

I know very many ethnic slurs, and I have never heard of that on by FluffyUnbound	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:37:28 PM
But then again, the word "jimmy" is used as an ethnic slur in many parts of the east coast. So does everybody named James have to stop using their name now?
Ummm, Zombie - show me the proof by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:37:47 PM
He was there. No records show him AWOL. There was no dishonorable discharge, nor was he brought up on any charges for going AWOL. He was transferred to another base so he could also work on a campaign. Here's one for you, were you as harsh on Clinton when he dodged the draft? Kerry is a war hero? One who admitted he took part in atrocities and war crimes, but yet failed to mention names?
Dead, Raped, Deer by shamalamadingdog	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:38:05 PM
and Crazy Fucking White People RULE! And...oh yeah... Michael Moore is fucktard!
by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:38:27 PM
Bada Bing!
Definition of Liberalism by Sidious-1138	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:40:30 PM
From Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:---------------A movement in modern Protestantism emphasizing intellectual liberty and the spiritual and ethical content of Christianity b : a theory in economics emphasizing individual freedom from restraint and usually based on free competition, the self-regulating market, and the gold standard c : a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties .-----------------Hmmmmm, not quite what the rabid neo-cons make it out to be, is it?
LIBERALS/LEFTISTS by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:43:50 PM
Bada Bing!
Definition of Conservatism by Sidious-1138	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:46:40 PM
disposition in politics to preserve what is established b : a political philosophy based on tradition and social stability, stressing established institutions, and preferring gradual development to abrupt change 3 : the tendency to prefer an existing or traditional situation to change ----------------------Not so bad either. The problem is, the current neo-conservatives are actually more Fundamentalists:--- a movement or attitude stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles
"To describe this film as dishonest and demagogic would almost b by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:48:21 PM
"To describe this film as a piece of crap would be to run the risk of a discourse that would never again rise above the excremental. To describe it as an exercise in facile crowd-pleasing would be too obvious. Fahrenheit 9/11 is a sinister exercise in moral frivolity, crudely disguised as an exercise in seriousness. It is also a spectacle of abject political cowardice masking itself as a demonstration of "dissenting" bravery." Bada Bing!
Now THAT is a review. by Fitzcarraldo2	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:49:46 PM
Eloquent, lucid, passionate yet controlled. Well done, Mr Beaks.
Definition of Leftists by Sidious-1138	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:49:54 PM
those professing views usually characterized by desire to reform or overthrow the established order especially in politics and usually advocating change in the name of the greater freedom or well-being of the common man------Hmmmm, once again, not so bad.
In other news: Gary Oldman is in negotiations to perform a chara by phanboi	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:51:34 PM
I love you all. Please go on with your funny replies. It's the read of my life. Thank you all...
Fiddling While We Burn by Fireball XL-5	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:52:27 PM
Just before coming here to read all this Left-Right nonense I was at another site being treated to the news that A) the South Korean hostage had his head sawed off by terrorists, and B) That the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency has issued a warning that nuclear terrorism is "real and imminent." Are we all missing the point or what?
Man it must suck to be conservative by IndustryKiller	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:52:43 PM
On the losing side of history since the birth of America and counting. Constantly fighting an uphill battle and slowly but surely being phased out. It's true and about the only argument that needs to be made. Call me in ten years and tell me if any part of your conservative agenda still stands, somehow I doubt it.
"Not just a scathing indictment against the President.. but a de by Sidious-1138	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:53:43 PM

"[Moore's] most disciplined and powerful movie to date." - NY T by Sidious-1138	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:54:49 PM

"... a powerful piece of filmmaking by Michael Moore." - Ebert by Sidious-1138	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:56:01 PM

Fireball XL-5 - Thank you for probably the smartest and most rel by Lightmaker	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:59:35 PM

Couldn't have said it better... by frankentron5000	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:00:05 PM
Perhaps one of the most learned, even-handed and researched reviews of a film I have ever read. I will never debate Moriarty on a subject because he will bury me in excruciating loads of truth...despite any of my wild, rage-filled mental flailings. I admire Michael Moore for his drive and dedication to his subject matter, but every piece so smacks of of a need for self-justification that I just can't take him seriously. Moriarty takes the high road, a kind dissection, if you will...while all I could think to say was, "Michael Moore sucks." Well done, Moriarty.

Talkbacks

Mr. Beaks Vs. FAHRENHEIT 9/11!!