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Mr. Beaks Vs. FAHRENHEIT 9/11!!

First! by bigshotdon1	Jun 22nd, 2004 06:50:09 AM
Just thought i'd let you know...
Nice review by phanboi	Jun 22nd, 2004 06:54:33 AM
Very Nice Mr. Beaks. And now let's get it on with the Moore bashing.
Yeah, sounds of 9/11 in a doc about 9/11 is "Wholly inappropriat by Tetsuwan Atom	Jun 22nd, 2004 06:57:27 AM
Left leaners love the movie, right wingers hate it. Blah blah blah. Same story over and over again.
Michael Eats More... by badboymason	Jun 22nd, 2004 07:00:41 AM
Michael Moore is a total hypocrite for refusing to be interviewed for the documentary Michael Moore Hates America. Even though the title could be slightly less harsh towards him, he can't have it both ways. If people refuse to be interviewed by him, he calls them on it and attacks them for it. So why turn round and make himself a target for the same thing?
I have no desire to see this... by IFartOnYourGrave	Jun 22nd, 2004 07:10:24 AM
However I must say nicely done Mr. Beaks, nicely done. Thanks for calling it a movie... which it is, and not a documentary.. which it is not.
Minor detail... by grid101	Jun 22nd, 2004 07:14:16 AM
...but isn't it FAHRENHEIT 9/11?
a review of this review. by StaticPrevails	Jun 22nd, 2004 07:32:21 AM
Was this really a great review? I really had a hard time reading it. I really dont want to get out a dictionary when I read a movie review. I think if you simplified your points, words and sentence structures, it would be a much easier read for the rest of us. Im still not quite sure what you were saying about the movie.
People that often say by Spike fan	Jun 22nd, 2004 07:44:46 AM
that Moore lies (apart not from giving examples of those lies) must ask themselves who is the bigger liar ?Moore or that cowardly fool in the Whitehouse called George W Bush. This man invaded a country and is responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent civillians and hundered's of troops on the basis of a patent mis truth. So yeah who lies bigger Moore or Bush????
Micheal Moore doesn't hate America by deathsjestbook	Jun 22nd, 2004 07:58:47 AM
Michael Moore is far from being a perfect human being, he often takes points too far and his veneration of Afro-Americans verges on the patronsing, but his refusal to be interview for MMHA is perfectly understandable. Like Bush, he recogises when someone is out to do a hatchet job and steers well clear. This foolish young man who's making the documentary, that's meant to tell us everything about the US is great, when even those with a vague sense of reality know otherwise, is just wasting his time and ours. Fox news has that viewpoint pretty sown up, the point about 9/11 is that it's meant to be something we don't hear every fucking day. Fuck him and his rose-tinted spectacles.
Moore reveals himself by RickP66	Jun 22nd, 2004 08:03:31 AM
Moore continues to reveal himself for what he is...an anti-American socialist. A couple days ago, when commenting on the fact that Canada is becoming more like the US, he made the statement that "becoming like the US is like pissing on yourself." That fat, lying fuck can kiss my ass. As for the fucking moron who tried to say "President Bush lied more than Moore," no, President Bush did not lie. You may disagree with his reasons for going to war with Iraq, but none of them were lies and if you had an honest gene in your DNA you'd admit it.
Ruby Ridge incident took place in 1992 by SmutGirl	Jun 22nd, 2004 08:05:04 AM
which means it took place during GHW Bush's Administration, as Clinton didn't assume the presidency until January 1993
Good riddance by Subversive01057	Jun 22nd, 2004 08:28:43 AM
to the various neo-con human garbage who leave this site because they can't handle the truth.
Explanation required by afraidoffans	Jun 22nd, 2004 08:37:25 AM
Can one of the US talkbackers explain something to me. I know you have freedom of speech over there and anything but if Michael Moore lies his ass of in this and his last movie, as this review has claimed, how come he hasn't been sued for slander and all sorts of other charges? In this country, if someone made a film about the prime minster and lied or exaggerated as much as is claimed in Moore's works, then they would be in court faster than you could say "Pancreas!" So either he's lying and should be punished for his slander, or just saying stuff that some people of a certain political bias, simply can't stand.
So it's okay for fascists... by Kid Z	Jun 22nd, 2004 08:42:10 AM
... to constantly shove their propaganda up our collective sphincters, but it's not okay for Michael Moore to throw a series of "glancing blows" against the most corrupt presidency in history. This review is just more typical blather from regime lapdogs.
People who call artists "sellouts"... by Deep Cover	Jun 22nd, 2004 08:48:03 AM
...are asswipes. "Mr. Beaks" is the equivalent here of a jock-sniffing sports or music journalist who trashes an someone who is more talented, makes much more money, and has much more power than he does. In addition, he's in love with his vocabulary (or more likely, his thesaurus) and also counts himself among the chorus of morons who believe that all documentaries before Michael Moore's had no point-of-view and consisted only of "truth", that oft-subjective notion that a few detractors with an internet connection can poke holes in if they try hard enough.
"His refusal to be interview for MMHA is perfectly understandabl by FluffyUnbound	Jun 22nd, 2004 08:49:35 AM
In other words, there was absolutely no reason for "Roger and Me" to be made, its central "joke" and main docu-dramatic device was inherently dishonest and unfair, and anyone who afforded it any credit or acclaim blows goats. It's nice to see that people can finally acknowledge that.
Michael Moore sucks, but Bush sucks harder by Rupee88	Jun 22nd, 2004 08:57:32 AM
Bowling for Columbine was dumb, and I'm sure this movie is too. Moore doesn't care about logic or keeping to the facts. He twists everything (and makes stuff up) to suit his purposes. Everyone knows that Bush is evil, so this film serves no purpose.
Moore is lazy and stale by nmp03	Jun 22nd, 2004 09:02:48 AM
I've said it before... I'll say it again, how hard is it to make a "documentary" bashing this presidency (any presidency for that matter but this one in particular). The circumstances surrounding Bush's election win and a terrorist attack, the likes of which the world has never seen, all make for difficult senarios for any president to deal with. Make a documentary about the solutions to the problems instead of whining like the smart fat kid that never got picked in gym class that he is.
Afraidofans by FluffyUnbound	Jun 22nd, 2004 09:03:52 AM
Well, an example of Moore's style of argument is referenced in the review: he finds someone who Bush was in the National Guard with, who then went to work for a company that did some financial adviser work for a relative of bin Laden's. This is presented as if it is a damning [or even relevant] revelation, complete with ominous music and editing, not to mention months of hype about the horrible "scandals" the film would reveal. The problem is that the ARGUMENT is inherently false, but the individual facts are true. He is thus beyond the threat of a lawsuit. If you sat down and investigated the family members of the business clients of the friends of people who served in the military with John Kerry [or anyone, for that matter, in any walk of life] you will find murderers, child molesters, people who are mean to their pets, etc. If I made a documentary that presented the "fact" that the cousin of a guy who went to an investment adviser where John Kerry's college roommate worked was a child molester, and did it in a way that convinced stupid people that this was significant, my approach would be fundamentally dishonest but not false. If I produced a documentary that included my voiceover narration, "John Kerry was born, coincidentally, on the same day that a member of the Ku Klux Klan died, and he once lived in a state where there were thousands of Ku Klux Klan members," and I accompanied this narration with a cartoon showing a bunch of Klan member taking over their hoods and robes and turning into a bunch of guys at a barbecue with Kerry, and showing Kerry slapping them on the back and laughing with them, it would again be fundamentally dishonest because although the individual facts would be true, the argument as a whole is an obviously deliberate deception. [Unless he's just really stupid, and doesn't understand what is and what is not a valid argument, and I can't believe that. Not quite. Close, but not quite.]
Thank You by Cablecasual	Jun 22nd, 2004 09:16:25 AM
I love this site sometimes, nothing amuses me more than the talkbacks when ever theres a story about Michael Moore. Some of the ranting is just great, I wish I lived in America sometmes (land of the free, so long as you don't disagree...), at least you have a left and right thats distinguishable from each other. Us Brits are stuck with two sides whose views are about an inch apart making the choice relativley meaningless. And don't forget that our Tony is (supposedly) a Socialist, which seems to be only a turd above a communist for you guys, despite the "special relationship" his leftism doesn't seem to be such an issue. Keep up the good work, and how about some more fat jokes, that'll show old Michael whos boss. Lets face it the guy is an entertainer with a political edge, (his TV Nation series were hilarious), and the more you guys rant the bigger he will get! (C'mon I've set the fat joke up for you right there). All we need now is for our Mark Thomas to start making films about Tone....
Thank You by Cablecasual	Jun 22nd, 2004 09:17:09 AM
I love this site sometimes, nothing amuses me more than the talkbacks when ever theres a story about Michael Moore. Some of the ranting is just great, I wish I lived in America sometmes (land of the free, so long as you don't disagree...), at least you have a left and right thats distinguishable from each other. Us Brits are stuck with two sides whose views are about an inch apart making the choice relativley meaningless. And don't forget that our Tony is (supposedly) a Socialist, which seems to be only a turd above a communist for you guys, despite the "special relationship" his leftism doesn't seem to be such an issue. Keep up the good work, and how about some more fat jokes, that'll show old Michael whos boss. Lets face it the guy is an entertainer with a political edge, (his TV Nation series were hilarious), and the more you guys rant the bigger he will get! (C'mon I've set the fat joke up for you right there). All we need now is for our Mark Thomas to start making films about Tone....
some people like bush I guess by skiff	Jun 22nd, 2004 09:17:41 AM
one thing I like about bush is that he is making it easy for the liberals to be re-elected in canada. his look out for number one oil lovin,money grubbin, gun huggin, bible thumping, get your own fuckin health care ways are don,t go over in canada.
afraidoffans by scaler	Jun 22nd, 2004 09:26:34 AM
The reason Moore hasn't been sued is pretty simple. Almost any time a group in the US protests against a film or other piece of media, or files a lawsuit over it, the incident ends up being painted as censorship (witness the outcry when Disney, for financial reasons, refused to release Farenheit 9/11). This seems especially true when the one filing the suit is a member of the government. So, if those libeled by Moore's films file a suit against him, they end up looking like they're the bad guys, even if the facts are on their side. If you add to this the fact that Moore is preaching almost entirely to the choir, you see that the largest effect of such a lawsuit would be to give Moore more amunition, while at the same time guaranteeing that, due to the controversy, more people would view Moore's films.
A liberal news site with an unfavorable review of Farenheit 9/11 by RodneyRoy	Jun 22nd, 2004 09:33:01 AM
Most liberals who have seen the movie have not been honest about the content. Yes, Moore is a master showman, but what about the substance behind the flash? A really great article by an honest liberal on Slate, discussing the inconsistencies of Moore's movie. http://slate.msn.com/id/210272 3/
Life Imitates Art / Imitates Life / Imitates Art, Ad Nauseum by Van Damned	Jun 22nd, 2004 09:34:32 AM
Conservatives say: 'Moore bad! War good! Iraq prison bad! Iraq oil good! Kerry bad! Bush good!' Liberals say: 'Bush bad! War bad! Moore kinda bad, but better than Bush! Oil bad (oops, need it to get to protests)! Kerry... um, what was the question again? Moderates, as usual, are left to wonder why it is that these two groups of knuckleheads can't see that one nut begat the other; there would be no Moore film if there were no truth to the allegations against Bush. There would be no focus on Bush if it weren't for Moore feeling his chance for greatness - in the form of smearing an American president - hadn't come (remember, there's no such thing as bad publicity). In the end, it comes to this: you either have to put up with political commentary in certain types of films, or you have to put on a brown shirt and do the goosestep. We might anyway, if things get much more oppressive. (Note to self: apply for job at the Department of Homeland Security, wipe out personal files) If you don't like it, don't go & see it. If you're worried it might sawy swing voters, don't; there are none.
Its being reported that Moore is by Raptorman101	Jun 22nd, 2004 09:38:21 AM
taking money from Hezbollah to promote his film ! I wonder how Harry feels about his hero now !
oh that wacky Mikey Moore by lopan	Jun 22nd, 2004 09:40:07 AM
i don't really care for his tactics, but what i do love about Mr. Moore is that he pisses off the conservatives! i could care less whether F9/11 is accurate or not, but watching the far right gets their panties all twisted up over it is SO much fun!
A couple of things... by godric	Jun 22nd, 2004 09:42:56 AM
1. I saw Around the World in 80 Days and liked it a lot, but in now way did I pick up anything conservative or just short of Christian proselytizing (okay, that might be spelled wrong). Not sure where Mr. Beaks is getting that from. 2. I have friends working in Iraq doing humanitarian aid--tons more than most of whiners will ever do--and they say that it's a lot more stable there than the press has led us to believe, especially in the Kurdish north. And I don't fully know the motives of anyone who got us into this war, but in the end, people are free who weren't before. In 1988, Sadaam Hussein told his army to begin the systematic extermination of the Kurdish people. Every family lost someone in the following attempt at genocide. Whole villages were gassed. And now that man is no longer leader of Iraq. A good thing has been done--sometimes doing good costs something. Deal with it.
Hey Stay Classy San Diego by RonBurgundy	Jun 22nd, 2004 09:44:58 AM
We get a bit worked up with this stuff. I suppose if there is something to get worked up about, it is the future of our country. And I think that Michael Moore has genuine concern...and has a certain idea of what his America is. And--obviously--it's not the conservative ideal. Just because people have different ideas of what "America" is or what it should be about...doesn't mean one of them is a patriot and the other "hates America." This is a big, complex country that tries to do a lot of things here and in the rest of the world. I tend to agree with Moore most of the time. I think he shoots himself in the foot by taking examples too far...or voicing theories that have very little (if any) evidence backing them up. But even though I'm no Ron Burgundy, I am in TV news...and I see every story that hits every day. And I'll tell you what--the amount of dirt on the Bush administration is overwhelming. With the number of Republicans writing scathing books about the president (Ron Suskind about former Treasury Sec. Paul O'Neil, and Richard Clarke plus the info about Colin Powell wanting out asap)...it's a testament to the administration's skill with the media that they're still afloat. The economy has been shit for a long time, the war in Iraq is a complete mess...Al Quaida seems to be just as dangerous now as they were pre-9/11. And still Bush is hanging in there. I think Michael Moore just wants to sum it all up in one movie...and even though his style can be frustrating even to people who agree with him...you have admire him for putting himself out there like he does. Sorry for the length.
This is the best review by Damer1	Jun 22nd, 2004 09:53:25 AM
check this out... BTW it is from a liberal... http://slate.msn.com/id/210272 3/ It's good to know that Moore continues to disregard the truth.
If Christopher Hitchens is a liberal... by Deep Cover	Jun 22nd, 2004 09:57:46 AM
...then I'm Mickey Mouse. Sorry, Repukes.
Why do Americans venerate the President as if he were some kind by JUDAS'S PRIEST	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:00:43 AM
Didn't you guys ditch the Brits during the War Of Independence? Wasn't the aim of that to build a Republic? So, why do you treat dissent against the President and his administration as tantamount to treason? Isn't it every American's right to bitch about the President if he or she so chooses?
this site by ZO	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:03:23 AM
should really stay away from political issues because no one cares what u guys think this isn't cool news
the argument that they're better off now, and that doing good th by RonBurgundy	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:09:23 AM
First of all--the humanitarian benefit was NOT the reason we went into Iraq. There are plenty of bad guys in the world killing their citizens...and we're not going everywhere. From everything that has been written about the Bush administration...they were going into Iraq from the beginning, and they were looking for an opportunity to do just that. The fact is--this is being called the "war on terror," not the "war on bad guys who kill their own people." Hussein was contained in Iraq as a terrorist threat...war was not necessary as they scared the public into thinking. Now that we've taken all the troops who were looking for al Quaida in Afghanistan and thrown them into Iraq...al quaida has been able to regroup and is now just as deadly. The only reason al Quaida is in Iraq now is because we're there, so that they can ambush us on a daily basis. I think it's become obvious that there are certain ways to fight this sort of war...and what we're doing isn't one of the ways. And let me say this (if you're still reading)... Bush came into office being hailed as a "compassionate Conservative," a middle-of-the-roader. But every moderate conservative in his cabinet has been either fired/replaced or completely alienated (Powell)...to the point where now Bush is only advised by an extremely right-wing core group. What really scares me...is that the world truly hates America right now. Does that make us safer from overseas threats? I don't see how it is. We are never going to be able to kill even close to all the terrorists around the world. We need to build an international network (not the "international" support we have in Iraq) and only through that can we have a chance to defend ourselves properly. Problem is...the world's leaders hate Bush and won't work with him. I don't think Kerry is the strongest candidate in the world...but he represents an internationalist ideal that the rest of the world can work with, and appreciate.
Who Gives A Fuck? Bush is Satan... by reni	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:10:22 AM
That's what I heard....
but does Moore still support the 'Iraqi resistance?' by Blacklist	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:14:31 AM
he sure seemed to be the personal cheerleader for the insurgents picking off contractors in Iraq for a while there, especially around Fallujah. Obviously, he supports the troops though. And it would smack of McCarthyism to say otherwise... mmm hmm. When is John Stossel going to get a film deal?
Yo, Afraidoffians (sp?) by Toby O Notoby	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:16:10 AM
For the most part it's because Moore, when cornered, qualifies his work as satire. For example, he could say "upon hearing about the Twin Tower attackes, Bush danced a jig" and then used clever back n' forth editing to make it look like Bush was dancing (they actually did do this once with Hitler). The defence is "Hey, it's a joke people". I'm guessing that's why Heston never sued Moore for editing two different speeches together to make it look like saying something he wasn't. Not to say he does stuff like that all the time, but it's one reason. Did anyone land in court about the fake British soldier rape story?
I hate lil' Bee-yach talkbackers by woj123	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:19:12 AM
1. Your review sucks. I've seen pre-schoolers chop up and put back together a newspaper better than this messed up, unorganized piece of Lit. 2. I like how its popular now to bash Michael Moore. Anyone in the press/film who is new and up and coming is cool, however once you become to POPULAR you are hated. Its the "geek way". During the release of Bowling for Columbine he was worshipped and now since he's on the cover of every newspaper and magazine he's hated. 3. first our idiot president was after bin laden and those pesky lil' terrorists. Oops forget about them lets go after Sadam and those wicked Weapons of Mass Destruction. OH NO!! we can't find WMD so lets now just bring peace and prosperity to Iraq.
Re: Subversive01057 by m2298	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:24:56 AM
"Human garbage" eh? It does your POV no credit when you bash neo-cons using neo-nazi type language.
The ol' "backhanded" review by Mooly	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:25:20 AM
So first off the intro calls Beaks a "slight liberal" This is followed by what seems like an hours worth of reading about how Beaks is too smart for Moore and too smart for the general public and too smart for anyone who goes to see a Moore film. Then we get a "review" where Beaks acts as if he invented the backhanded compliment. He flippantly tosses out jabs such as how Michael Moore doesn't make good documentaries and how the problem is that this film isn't funny in it's first hour. Yet he says the best part is the serious last hour but then he seems to be bashing Moore for exploiting the woman from flint. But finally he ends the review by saying this is the movie America deserves and it's all good. Why not just say, "This movie is great...if you like a fat fucking lier who only pretends to care about people but really eats baby heads. Or, you know, if you are one of THOSE liberals."
why is self questioning always considered hatred? by movieManiac	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:25:35 AM
if moore doesn't like bush and what the administration is doing, why is he anti america? Wake up people! Fifty years of national media, self importance and movies that reinforce self importance have so deeply ingrained themselves into the american psyche that you people don't even realise that there are good solid reasons why so much of the world hates America. The elected president pretty much decides what to do with the rest of the world, and when someone like Bush comes into power, its affects millions the world over. A little change in foreign policy can kill hundreds and change the lives of many forever. National media is so biased and insulated, that theres little or no coverage of whats happening in the world. And no, CNN is not unbiased. Try catching the BBC once in a while. Did you guys ever think that when Reagan was being covered 24/7 for a week, there were other things happening in the rest of the world? He was a great president and deserved to be honored, blah blah...but a week? This is a great country, for several reasons...but...it is a great country at the expense of other not so privileged ones...and THAT is wrong...too bad some guy is trying to talk about that...guess he must be a bastard.
Shame on you, Michael Moore by NFLRefugee	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:25:40 AM
I have absolutey no intention to vote for Bush. He is not progressive, he is to bogged down in his own religous dogma to see that he is not benefiting a good portion of the country (i.e. stem cell research) and he is letting the defecit get out of control. Not to mention he letting to many people die in Iraq for seemily nothing. That being said, I wish Michael Moore would shut his fat pie hole about how he knows the truth about this country and how we are all sheep. F you. Bush was on vacation 42% of the time. He wasn't at the White House but that doesn't mean that he was on the beach, he was working. He always brings his aides with him specifically Condi Rice and Andy Card. He also conducts meetings via conference calls etc. President's don't take vacations. They can't. But that isn't funny, is it Mike. Doesn't make your point that Bush is a dunce, does it Mike. Dickwad. I love the fact that Moore argues that Bush let Bin Laden's family leave the country (though some sources dispute that, knowing what I know about Moore I believe the other sources). Okay. If the Bush administration put his extended family in custody would Moore approve of that? Certainly not. Moore defended Bin Laden said that he was innocent until proven guilty. So is that reason to put his family in custody? Well, the FBI said that they knew nothing about the attacks, so why shouldn't they have been free to leave? You can't legally blame Bin Laden's second cousins for the attacks if they weren't involved. Knowing some of the bigots in this country, they would have been lynched. But I guess Moore would have approved of that. Since, he doesn't think they shouldn't have left the country. I would like to see a real documentary on Sept 11th. Something that tells me the truth, not Michael Moore's view of the world.
Re: Subversive01057 by m2298	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:27:26 AM
"Human garbage" eh? You do yourself no favor attacking neo-cons sounding like a neo-nazi.
There is a war coming... you sure you're on the right side? by TheGinger Twit	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:27:48 AM
Bush is going down. To bad he's got the keys to the nukes. Fuck'n typical.
sorry about posting twice by m2298	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:28:53 AM
Didn't know the order was screwed up...
Godric by Slim_Goodbody	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:30:00 AM
I'm not saying that overthrowing sadam was a bad thing, it's just that bush and his team have gone about in the worst possible way. With no broad international support, we are making more enemies and more problems for us down the road. Everyone knows that sadam was a bad guy. He just happens to be a bad guy sitting on a vast oil reserve and was easy payback (he once tried to kill my dad, etc.) There are far worse countries out there but they have nukes. Saudi Arabia and Pakistan and Iran have established links with Al Quiada while Iraq has very questionable ones. Are we more safe by going after Iraq?
Is it supposed to be spelled wrong? by scythe1138	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:30:30 AM
Because if it isn't, its kinda sad. Fahrenheit. Its spelled that way in the title too.
On "venerating" the President... by godric	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:35:21 AM
Here's my thought. Yes, it is every American's "right" to complain about the President, but does that help anything? Here was my thought with Clinton, and now with Bush: if you don't like a candidate, fight with all you've got to see that he's not elected. But then when he is, you've got to support him--he is the President and deserves some respect. A democracy doesn't work if the losing side always complains and moans and renders ineffective anything the elected-by-the-people President tries to do. You wonder why the country has been running in place the last 16 years? Not because of bad leadership entirely--but because the losing side won't respect the winning.
p.s. Beaks by Mooly	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:45:25 AM
Moore did NOT lie about the Disney fiasco either. Disney PAID for his movie to be made. That's right, they funded the whole thing. Yes, they said from the start that they didn' want to support it and wouldn't distribute it...but it was still MADE on their dime. THEN once it was finished they still sent reps to go watch it. It was only AFTER they watched it that they really put their foot down. How nice of them to pay for a movie to get made and then once it's finished try to sit on it and prevent it from being distributed. It would have been much more fair if they passed from the start and didn't fund it. I have little doubt that if Moore hadn't finished his movie in time for the election season then Disney would have had NO problems with it. why else would they continue funding it? Yes, his whole publicity scandal was a stunt to attract attention. GOOD! His whole movie is about how G.W.s regime has encouraged censorship and fear and they attack anyone who does something they don't like...and surprise, surprise, Disney won't distribute a movie because they are afraid of what the Bush's will do to them. This isn't just a publicity stunt. it is THE publicity stunt. It completely proves the whole point of Moore's movie!
Unfortunately, all FAHRENHEIT 9/11 will ultimately do is preach by SpyGuy	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:46:02 AM
Oh, there will be an initial interest thanks to all the controversy, real and manufactured, and it should be the number one film (until SPIDER-MAN 2 arrives, anyway). The main problem is, both Moore and the film cater far too much to those who are already voting against Bush. Instead of being an actual documentary, FAHRENHEIT 9/11 has become a propoganda film thanks to the "This is the film people don't want you to see" hype. Did anyone else catch the interview Matt Laurer did where he asked Moore if he thinks his film will persuade anyone who still plans on voting for Bush? Moore looked like a deer caught in headlights for several moments and you could see him thinking "Ohhhh, crap...I forgot about them" before replying, "That's a really good question." Should Bush be voted out of office? Of course he should, but Moore's film was made with an agenda from the get-go and most people (I think) realize that. If you hate Bush, you'll love FAHRENHEIT 9/11 and vice versa. And don't think that Moore's stubbly, chubby face won't be giggling like crazy when he accepts that Best Picture Oscar at next year's Academy Awards. Just you wait...
If Christopher Hitchens isn't a leftist, exactly what the fuck I by FluffyUnbound	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:09:42 AM
I've been reading Hitchens since Thatcher first came into office and maybe a little longer, and I can personally assure you that he is unapologetically left-wing.
Reply to Godric re: "Venerating" the Prsident by JUDAS'S PRIEST	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:11:57 AM
Godric, what is the point of living in a democracy if you expect everyone to get along just peachy after the voters have had their say. Every Democracy requires an opposition party (As in the Westminster system which most Western Democracies are based on) to maintain the checks and balances of the administration in charge. A President, just like the local Sheriff, has to earn his community's respect by doing what is in their best interests. An elected leader that blatantly disregards the wishes of the people such as Bush and Blair have done by unilaterally attacking Iraq does not deserve your repsect or good will. Politics is not like football. It isn't about being a good sport, but Americans seem to think it is. In my opinion, Al Gore should have fought Bush over the dubious vote count in Florida, all the way to the Supreme Court. Instead he took his PR's advice and admitted defeat. He didn't want to look like a bad loser. Someone should have told him that America has no room for people that finish second.
People, people by music maker	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:14:48 AM
Besides regurgitating phrases such as
Rights What Rights? by JUDAS'S PRIEST	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:23:11 AM
I was in Florence, Italy on the weekend and I was surrounded by young American tourists doing the European Road Trip thing. I spoke to some of these people and they seemed like a pretty decent bunch. They obviously had an interest in European art and culture; otherwise, they would've just flown direct to Amsterdam. Anyway, it got me thinking about how these kids probably haven't voted for a President yet and how I hope that they will in November. The depressing thought is, how many of them will vote for Bush? Here they were enjoying another country and its culture, soaking it all in and having the time of their lives. Yet, when they return home how many of them will remember that there is a wider world outside of America? And how many of them noticed what a massive influence the USA has on Europe and the rest of the world? My point is, if you are a freedom loving, open-minded individual, how can you possibly support President Bush and the GOP? How can you believe that their policies and actions have been beneficial to American and global security, the global economy and genuine international co-operation? Your vote, more than anyone else's really counts. Stop denying it. An American vote is worth a hundred European votes and probably a thousand African and Arab votes.
If you want a solid in-depth review and analysis.... by Rex Stetson	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:29:45 AM
Read Christopher Hitchens' review today in Slate: http://slate.msn.com/id/210272 3/ A pretty even-handed moderate, he points out a lot of the distortions and factual errors in the film that are as misleading as anything George W. is accused of doing. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but you should really read both sides of the story before you make up your mind. Otherwise you're just mindlessly parroting what Rush Limbaugh or Michael Moore say without thinking for yourself. That's what "they" want- to keep you from thinking critically! ( insert the "liberal media" or "vast right wing conspiracy" as your preference dictates) I don't know about everyone else, but I come to AICN every day for geeky genre film news, which is what it does best. There are a zillion political sites out there (for all political persuasions) that cover this type of political stuff better and more in-depth.
The Bush/Bin Laden family/Saudi connection and why this administ by Trader Groucho 2	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:35:45 AM
I haven't seen F911 yet, but whatever connection Moore makes between the Bush and Bin Laden families, I'm sure, is nowhere near strong enough. US government policy, through both Democratic and Republican administrations, has been to protect and prop up the anti-Democratic Saudi monarchy at the expense of freedom of expression in not just Saudi Arabia but the entire Arab world. The Saudi royals have returned the favor in a particularly personal way to the American leaders who have supported them by providing $$$ for such things as presidential libraries. They've been even tighter with the Bush family over the years, as the Bushes are in the same business as the Saudis. Oil. Saudi investment in Bush oil enterprises have kept the Bushes afloat. As for Iraq, the manner in which the US government has handled the occupation (and I agree with conservatives and Clinton - who supported the invasion but not the timing - that Saddam needed to go) has everything to do with the potential for somewhere in the range of $7 trillion (that's TRILLION, with a T) in oil contracts up for grabs. A UN invasion and UN-administered occupation would have leveled the playing field for non-US oil companies (read: competitors of the folks Bush has worked with here in the US) in the competition for post-war Iraq oil contracts. That the US came in with too few troops to stage a decent occupation, disbanded an Iraqi army that couldn't give a hang about Saddam in the first place, and did not act to confiscate all small arms immediately throughout the country, speaks to the managerial incompetence of the Bush administration. But given Bush's business record, why is anyone surprised by this???
Moore Rules by MinasTirithII	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:37:00 AM
Die you noecon (R) scumbag liars who suppor the liar in cheif!
Hitchens not Even Handed by MinasTirithII	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:38:05 AM
Just jealous. This movie owns. Bush must not win a 2nd term. He's a liar, a theif, and a complete bumbling idiot.
Bush Sucks by MinasTirithII	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:41:00 AM
How can anyone support a liar? A fool? A bumbling idiot? Moore will rock come Friday.
simple by AlgertMopper	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:41:44 AM
well, most of you can live in fear all you want, but i will not. That is all BushII has done. Made sure we lived in fear, and when someone ask questions about his doings they are considered a traitor. That's EXACTLY what you people are doing. Does M.M. hate America? I doubt it. And if you like living in fear so much much, go ahead and vote Bush again, and keep watching FOX news. And for you Harry. That coment you made about hype. Fuck you, what do think you do on this site every day. You Hype movies, you are the Hypocrite.
Moore True Patriot, (R) true Nazis by MinasTirithII	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:42:37 AM
that's what it's all about!
You know who would fix everything wrong with this country. by Ralphus	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:49:38 AM
Napoleon Dynamite that's who.
antoher (R) speaks stupidly by MinasTirithII	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:49:44 AM
"bviously Moore's best possible outcome would result in the ousting of President Bush." That;s pretty sutpid, since Bush is a great person to make films out of. Moron (R).
I don't buy it... by Darth Melkor	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:51:49 AM
I don't buy what this film says, not because it didn't happen. Maybe it did. But, Moore can make it say whatever he wants. I could make a film depicting Bush as Jesus if I wanted.
more Stupid (R) by MinasTirithII	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:52:56 AM
"I could make a film depicting Bush as Jesus if I wanted."........ could you, than shut your face and do it moron
Where be the WMD Dumbya? by MinasTirithII	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:53:57 AM
just asking
If you watch Fox News and actually believe what they say... by Atomic_Jedi	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:54:23 AM
You are a fucking moron. Republicans ditch hate and get in your face but when they run across a Democrat that yells at them back and actually make sense they cry like 4th grade girls.
Harry Bitching about Moore Advertising by MinasTirithII	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:56:40 AM
What a moronic statement. Did you not advertised Lord of the Rings 3 years before the first movie came out. Idiot.
Manipulative dogshit by Majseven	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:56:50 AM
This film is such crap. I can't even believe that it tries to portray itself as a "serious" political film, yet delights in taking certain events out of context to get shock factor. For instance, the scene where Bush answers a reporter's question, then tells him to watch his drive on a golf course. WHAT FUCKING PRESIDENT HASN"T DONE THIS? Look, if you're going to examine foreign policy and the decisions of this administration, do it. But any schlock that can edit can make a funny presidential blooper reel. Give me a damn break! Oh, and Hitchens is a leftist, but he still says the movie sucks and is gallingly slanted and flat-out propoganda. If you want to see the movie, by all means, do so. But if you are profoundly "Moved" by it, then you are a sheep akin to someone who believes everything he hears on Rush Limbaugh. Don't drink the Kool Aid.
Fact Checking by pmarq	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:59:31 AM
Got to hand it to you... Ad Hominem arguments really do make the world go round. There are so many accusations of 'sloppy facts' getting thrown around that its pretty obvious that they aren't meant to do anything but distract potential viewers... something you should understand, folks: The people 'debunking' the facts in this film are the same ones who told you there were WMD in Iraq, that Cheney doesn't still have connections to Halliburton, that America didn't fly several family members of bin Laden's family to safety after the bombings. All those 'facts' and many others, have been proven wrong over and over again, sometimes by the government's own admission! When Moore put these statements/accusations into the movie, nobody in the 'Liberal Media' was looking into it; it had all been on the internet for a couple years already, proven with reliable sources and citations taken from the mouths of the politicians themselves. Moore knew where the facts were to be had, and he took them. I feel sorry for those who watch this movie and think that everything is a lie; two years from now this film will look as solid as the fact base it is supported by: Pure Granite. Oh, and for those who would smear the internet as unreliable, most, if not all of the current investigations into this administration (12 in all, so far) have been seen as long as 3 years ago on the internet, so fuggedaboudit. Beaks, you sound like a nice guy, but its funny how you spent 2/3 of the article trying to sound like you are unbiased, when your view not of the movie, but of its politics, has clearly smeared your view. Say it together with me: "I don't want to be labelled LIBERAL by the conservative movement, so I'm going to slant to the right to make myself seem unbiased." Congratulations, you just took the Liberal Media Oath of Fealty.
Sue Moore by MinasTirithII	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:01:42 PM
If he lying as mush as so many (R) says he is, sue him. You won't see one law suit from the (R)
let Moore spew his nonsense. This is America. by cornstalkwalker	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:02:34 PM
Many Americans can think that by getting a different president in office, this war going to end. Well, its not. No matter who is in office, they are going to have to deal with the middle east terrorist problem. If we have a serious oil problem, we are going to have to fight for our lives. How many of you out there can actually farm for your own food, keep warm in the winter? You think with John Kerry or Ralph Nader or Mickey Mouse in office for all it matters the psychos in the world are gonna stop cutting Americans heads off? Doesn't matter what i write here, people already have their views of G Bush and J Kerry. Just make sure you go out and vote. It's our right as Americans.
A fantastic review of Moore's film by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:03:17 PM
http://slate.msn.com/id/210272 3/
Cornstalkwalker - sure Moore can spew his venom by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:08:31 PM
... this is America after all. He can say all he wants. He can promote hatred all he wants. After all, the KKK gets to march under free speech too, right? I can also offer my opinion that he is a fucking wacko, that his films suck and that his supporters are idiots. He completely skews everything in the direction he wants, leaving out key facts that might present a problem for his case. Hell, he'll even contradict himself, if he can skew something else to make the right look bad somehow.
MinasTirithII by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:09:27 PM
... in Syria. Just responding...
skiff...... by payton 34	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:09:39 PM
I hope that means you are going to go and vote for the Liberals on Monday. As big a group of morons as they are at least thet aren't evil like the Conservatives. God help us if the Consevatives get in and Bush is reeleceted. Goodbye Canada.
Beaks - Verbosity Does NOT Equal Intelligence - Just Ask Dubya by Wet Soul	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:13:49 PM
First off, Beaks needs an editor more than Stephen King. You could've cut 66% off that review, man (or as my Lit professor used to say: "Verbosity doesn't mean you're smart"). Next, for those of you griping about people griping about the President - good for you. I'll continue to gripe about the President and you're more than welcome to gripe about my griping. That's the beauty of America and free speech. Finally, Dubya's mission to "Get Bin Laden" rings with the same sincerity as OJ "getting" the man who "killed his wife." This ain't rocket science: Dubya and his warlords got caught in a lie ("WMDs! "WMDs! They're EVERYWHERE!"), and while they back-pedal American soldiers and civilians - and non-American innocents - die, every single day. The solution? It's pretty simple: our boys are dying overseas. Get them home, now.
Bush=American Hero; MinasTirithII = Hateful Angry Loser by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:16:48 PM
Republicans are Nazis, huh? Whatever. You and your ilk are pathetic fools. I love how you all want free speech and thought (or maybe you really don't), unless someone disagrees with you. Then it's time to bust out the hateful rhetoric. It can't even be a thoughtful debate, like "this is why Republicans are wrong, and these are all the facts." No, it's gotta be Nazi this, Hitler that. It's gotta be a concerted effort to discredit those that you hate, and to spread that hatred as much as possible. Well, here's something for ya, buddy boy, we ain't going away. Republicans are getting sick of shit from people like you and it's gonna be fucking on. Eat a c0ck, b1tch.
Payton34 - more hate from you too? by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:20:41 PM
Why does it gotta be that conservatives are evil? Is there no valid disagreement with the left? Is it the case that if one dares to disagree with the holier than thou left, that person is evil? Nice that you have such an open mind and appreciate debate.
facts, schmacks...I just want to laugh by the_pissboy1	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:21:24 PM
I didn't care that Roger and Me or Bowling For Columbine were not accurate as I watch movies for ENTERTAINMENT. Moore's films are just funny. Looking for truth in a documentary is like looking for an 18 year old virgin in TJ. They might exist but it's near impossible to find.
At least Moore isn't a wimp. by Homer Sexual	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:22:17 PM
I'm not the biggest fan of M.M. He dresses horribly, has a big mouth, etc. But as a proud to be Democrat, I thank God for someone who has the courage of his convictions and doesn't apologize or try to placate the right wing. Republicans certainly didn't "venerate" Clinton, I don't respect Bush, either. The right has many attack dogs, but how many do we have on the left. And, yes, Fahrenheit 9/11 will only preach to the converted, but that's the same as Limbaugh, etc, on the flip side. The only media outlets that don't preach solely to the converted are those that supposedly maintain "moderate" or "neutral" stance.
Foolish and damning statements by Saxster	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:24:12 PM
"The great triumph of the Bush II Administration has been their ability to secure mass media compliance under the threat of shutting off access to its key players, thereby ensuring, depending on the outlet
Homer - don't try to equate Moore... by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:24:22 PM
... with Rush Limbaugh. Limbaugh actually bases his arguments in facts. And that scares liberals.
hmmm by Homer Sexual	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:27:17 PM
Interesting that Lamerz feels his people are unfairly labeled as hateful, then signs off his post with "eat cock, bitch." But, see, he's a Republican so at least he won't apologize for his views.
If you love TRUTH - you'll hate this movie by Saxster	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:28:34 PM
Let's get one other point straight: The Left deal in more lies than any side I've seen in my lifetime. Ths simple honest answer to the questions that surround this propagandist piece of tripe: If you like your documentaries loaded with fabrications and editorialized hyperbole then you'll worship at the feet of sycophantic scumbags like Michael Moore. If you value TRUTH, save your $$ and go see something else. That's the best advice you'll hear about this movie. What politics you have shouldn't even decide the issue. The movie is bull and everyone knows it -- especially the Left. The fact is, they don't care. That's what propaganda is all about -- just twisting the viewpoints of others, regardless of what is right or wrong -- it's all about a goal or a position for the sake of power.
Well, Homer, do you think there is any reasoning with... by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:32:17 PM
... people who call you a Nazi for having an opinion different from their own? Um, no. I've played this game before. If I ever offend anyone who engages in thoughtful debate I'll apologize. You are right though, that was inappropriate, so I apologize for that part. But, I stand by everything else. MinasTirithII appears to be hateful and spiteful towards anyone who dares disagree with his set of beliefs. Bla bla bla bla.
Well, Homer, do you think there is any reasoning with... by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:32:57 PM
... people who call you a Nazi for having an opinion different from their own? Um, no. I've played this game before. If I ever offend anyone who engages in thoughtful debate I'll apologize. You are right though, that was inappropriate, so I apologize for that part. But, I stand by everything else. MinasTirithII appears to be hateful and spiteful towards anyone who dares disagree with his set of beliefs. Bla bla bla bla.
by cptrios	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:33:21 PM
It's easy to say Limbaugh and Moore base what they say on facts if you believe that something is a fact as easily as so many people obviously seem to do...the world would be a better place if the Hannitys, Moores, Limbaughs, Coulters, and LaRouches didn't exist. Liberal or conservative, we all owe it to ourselves to find things out on our own before we go preaching what the blowhards tell us. And honestly, Lamerz...and American hero? Come on.
R.C.' by R.C. the "Wise"	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:35:30 PM

Harry - your fucking Talkback system SUCKS! by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:39:05 PM
Why, oh why, can't the posts appear IN THE RIGHT FUCKING ORDER! Plus your friggin web server sucks and is ass slow half the time. UPGRADE???? HELLLLOOO?
Any post the Slate review yet? by Mooly	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:43:47 PM
I hear it is the ONLY reliable review in the WHOLE WORLD! Forget Cannes and forget the tons of raving reviews from actual movie critics...many of whom admit they don't even like Moore yet this is his best film yet. None of them know what they are talking about and the ONE negative reviewer does.
Darth_Dead - More open mindedness. Great by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:47:41 PM
So only Republicans write stupid things, huh? Libs would never do that, right? "Bush is Satan" and "Republicans are Nazis" are intelligent debate? Your post was just so thought provoking and intelligent. Fucking hypocrite. And I'm glad to see that you appreciate that someone can legitimately have a different opinion than you.
Why are people so riled up? by the_pissboy1	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:50:40 PM
Moore has a POV, like all filmmakers, and he unabashedly pushes it. Unlike some documentarists he's not trying to hide his agenda or hide what his ultimate theme is. He blatantly slams down his view and does nothing but push it. Do I believe any of his nonsense? nope. do i care if it lacks veracity? nope. it's a movie, made a by a human, so naturally it'll be a flawed, subjective piece. there's no escaping that. politics aside, I just want to be entertained.
Woops... I accidently pressed enter. Anyways here's my opinion by R.C. the "Wise"	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:51:58 PM
As a democrat, I may be going slightly against the status quo towards Michael Moore. I respect Moore and his motives but he is not above his share of derision. Moore is not a great documentary director. Like any advocate, he supports his point with an abundant amount of facts, perceptions, opinions, and skewed conclusions. Some of his tactics come off as mudslinging rather than journalism. For that I'm disinclined to concur with all of his conclusions. However, if you relabel him as a political satirist, rather than simply a rogue Liberal documentary director, he's one of the greatest of all time. My opinion on our president and his administration is simple, I respect the titles of their positions but not the people filling those positions. It doesn't take a genius to realize that he is not a leader. 2 years ago, from the ashes of tragedy rose the unification of the American citizens. This administration, in impeccible fashion, managed to separate, enrage, polorize, and aggrevate Americans and our allies. If this administration is reinstated for another term, I seriously fear for what may happen to our country. The rest of the world always had contempt towards this country, now thanks to the contining decisions, attitudes, and arrogance of the Bush Adminstration, they despise us.
DarthDead by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:52:35 PM
Are you afraid of Republicans? Are you afraid that your liberal propaganda might be wrong? Are you afraid that your heroes don't hold up under scrutiny? Is that why you need to "get rid of" the Republican posters who you hate so intensely?? Well, we ain't going away, and we ain't taking your shit anymore. Live with it... and see a fucking therapist about that hate problem.
Slate review... by the_pissboy1	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:53:12 PM
Is not a review of the film as a film. It's a review of the film's contents and how the reviewer thinks they stack up vis-a-vis his view of the world. What the hell? It's like reading a review of The Passion and the reviewer babbles about his view of Christianity. I don't fucking care about that. Just review the film as it stands...regardless of outside influences. Does it entertain or amuse? That's ALL that matters when reviewing a film.
Huh? by JWolf	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:53:16 PM
So I guess the bottom line is - a) Beaks is liberal, b) The film is unbalanced, c) Moore lied about Disney, and d) While political discourse is healthy, the film is freqently FACTUALLY DISTORTED. Sure, who wouldn't line up around the block and pay $11 to see this?...
DeadDarthFuckwad by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 12:58:32 PM
My bad, I didn't realize you were a fucking comedian. Your schtick is hilarious.
TurdDarthReagan by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:01:42 PM
Bring it on. Your shit is weak anyway. "Oh, the fucking Republicans should be banned, then we'd not have to listen to illiterate fucking Republicans. I'm so clever! Look at me mommy, I'm getting attention!"
Myself? No, You by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:04:53 PM
Never had a problem laughing at myself. I am laughing at you, not with you.
It's funny. by FluffyUnbound	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:05:20 PM
On the Bridget Jones 2 talkback we have people complaining because the movie doesn't contain enough feminist political content. And then on the talkback to THIS movie, we have people like pissboy claiming that the film can be enjoyed and discussed without reference to its political content. What do you want to talk about, the lighting? The color scheme of Moore's hat? Strangely, apparently light entertainments are to be judged for their semiotic political content and potential for creating false consciousness, but a DIRECT POLITICAL STATEMENT should be analyzed only as a series of abstract visual cell frames and sounds. OK, that makes sense.
DeadCarth by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:06:07 PM
You are not worth my time anymore. Peace.
Changeling - Moore's movie will have a great first weekend by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:08:37 PM
... as all his sheep rush out to see it. Then it will die a quick death.
Moore can't be effectively sued because... by Gislef_crow	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:08:56 PM
1) He himself has described his movie as an "op-ed" piece. You can't be sued for libel for expressing and publishing an opinion in the US; 2) Moore has described his work, and his movie, as "satire." You can't be sued for libel for publishing satire in the US; 3) Moore's movie is essentially a critique. You can't be sued for libel for publishing a critique in the US. 4) To have standing to sue for libel, you have to show direct and substantive damages. Even if Bush waits until he's voted out of office, how would he (or anyone else) possibly "prove" he was voted out directly because of and to any significant degree by Moore's movie? Any libel suit brought against Moore would be tossed out of court by most U.S. judges under current standing law and precedent in the U.S.
Robin Williams should reprise his role as Popeye so Michael Moor by Look At My Knees	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:09:05 PM
You guys are lame. Bowling for Columbine was awesome! That part when the dog wearing a hunter's vest shot that dude was hilarious! Classic cinema... right up there with "Eegah!". Who didn't like Roger and Me? James Stewart and a six foot tall imaginary bunny rabbit.. what's not to love? And Canadian Bacon - the movie that killed John Candy. Useless bum. I expect this adaptation of Ray Bradbury's classic expose of the Nixon administration to be a barrel full of explosive hijinx and wacky capers as Bush stumbles his way into the desert to drop acid and blow stuff up. Keep up the good work, Wimpy! Nevermind the naysayers!
I stopped before you even got to the review by Fantomex	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:11:11 PM
I saw Al Franken on Hardball, and he's still one of the funniest comedians alive today.
One thing by Redbox	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:11:26 PM
It's now become the critically "in" thing to mock Moore as a Liar and a Huckster. Truth is, whatever he has become, he is not comparable to the manipulations of our current government or talk radio. Why? Because he's only made about five films in twenty years! What kind of voice is that! This outrage by people, this pure hate, is very telling and it skews the reviewer's carefully worded and subtle attack. Moore scares conservatives like Malcolm X scared racists. You come running out you front door gun in hand ready to fight, not realizing you uncover your own irrational defensiveness. When a white man said he would protect his family with a gun or by any means, the media and audience would say "yeah! me too!". When Malcolm X said he would protect his family with a gun or by any means necessary, the crowd would gasp in fear. So crowd, you listen to Rush and Hanity and all the rest. You watch Fox news. why does one voice from the left, from the common working class values that Moore believes in, why does it scare you so? The more you yell, the more I think there's more to come. But I don't know, Liberals or moderates are not the venomess type that you crazed conservatives are. You have Fox News. We have NPR. You have "Matlock". We have "Homicide: Life on the Street". You have Jesse Helms. We have Mario Cuomo. You have movies like "Rambo", "Delta Force" and "The Green Berets". We have movies like "Full Metal Jacket", "The Thin Red Line" and "Apocalypse Now". You have "Benny Hill". We have "Monty Python". You like Beatles the Red Album. We like Beatles the Blue album. You traded John McCain in. Thanks We Love Him. Cheer Up!!
Ahhh, the sad, pathetic, obsessive attempt of demonization of co by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:15:16 PM
Ain't it sweet!
Fluffy... by the_pissboy1	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:16:09 PM
Why not whether or not it's entertaining? The veracity of the content doesn't matter as it's just a movie...lies aT 24 FPS. I judge them all the same way: make me care about what's happening on screen for 2 hours. That's all I ask. Don't drop the ball. You've got my undivided attention now dance for me monkey, dance I say! .................. Whether the movie is about the fastest cup stacking champ alive or some dildo president (name any president of the past 30 years and dildo is applicable), i just want to see something that makes me care what happens next. You wanna beat the shit out of Jesus or mock a president and his war...I don't much care, just dance for me monkey.
Reefer...it's the american way by the_pissboy1	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:18:23 PM
Make a buck anyway you can. Exploit natives and africans, put kids in forced labor, create an operating system, get loans from the gov't to start a railroad...I don't freaking care how, but make your buck. Will it offend some people? so. fuck'em. We're not living in the USA so we can all work 9 to 5 jobs and take home some measely 75k salary. Talk about a quick route to a banal death in bed at 70.
If you think you have Apocalypse Now, your understanding of the by FluffyUnbound	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:19:08 PM
And no, I don't have a direct line to Coppola. But the meaning of "Heart of Darkness" can't be mistaken, and it certainly can't be described as liberal. Sorry. Conrad says, Pick another film. You can keep using "The Thin Red Line" though, you're welcome to that unbelievable pile of dung.
F 9/11 IS FULL OF HOLES! Moore by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:26:35 PM
Moore
Anyone can manipulate folks, but it takes a special kind of crav by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:26:41 PM
Bada Bing!
misplaced passion by floody	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:28:16 PM
y'all are certainly a passionate lot. Why don't you use that passion and do something...get informed, use that knowledge, then go vote. A lot of you are just spouting off what other people are telling you - who cares if you are democrat and republican...go think for yourselves.
Dearth Dead Reagan by Mooly	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:31:13 PM
WTF? First fo al, how am I a retard when I back up my arguements yet all you do is name call. Second, please explain how I am a racist, when "Mooly" is a nickname I've had for year based on a shortened version of my actual last name? Since you are apparently the genius of the boards, I'm sure you have a logical answer to both those questions.
if Gandalf ran for president, I'd totaly be there... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:31:28 PM
...until then, no one's gonna be happy. Still, I can see Michael Moore trapping Gandalf into an incriminating situation the way he ambushed Heston. It was funny as all hell, but it wasn't very cool.
DeadDarthLoser by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:31:40 PM
First of all, that post wasn't for you. Liked getting some attention for once, didn't you? Second, I already told you I'm done with you. You are a waste of my time.
Just a few reminders... by BubbleWrap	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:33:11 PM
I hate politics on this site, but I make an exception in this case. Yes, Bush may not be the smartest knife in the drawer, he may have stepped on a few toes on the Iraq deal, but let's think of a few things before we start burning crosses in the White House lawn. 9/11 was being planned LONG before Bush was in office. Think back to the World Trade Center bombing part 1, the USS Cole, the African Embassy bombings... oh yeah, Clinton was Johnny on the Spot when all that happened, wasn't he? Do you think for one second that if Gore were president, there wouldn't be just as much controversy about what was/wasn't done about 9/11, security, etc. etc. etc. Fact is, if Bush isn't in office after the election, Al Qaeda still ain't pulling up stakes and calling it a day. You can't tell me for one second that your lives are any better when a Democrat or Republican is in office. And I am sorry, but John Kerry has about as many aswers to all these problems as a stuttering 9-year old on Jeopardy.
although... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:35:20 PM
...Michael Moore's films are coming real close to being filed under the "fantasy" section of video stores...all he needs is a couple of vampires and werewolves! By the way, GWBush is the sexiest tomby beanpole on the planet!
I'm annoying...but so is Michael Moore... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:37:38 PM
...he's just jealous that Mel Gibson's controversy was more interesting, and paid off more than his ever will.
Americans vs. Americans by Lightmaker	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:39:07 PM
I have been reading these FAHRENHEIT 9/11 talkbacks for weeks now and finally have to throw my 2 cents in. The hateful, bickering along party lines is pretty obscene. The fact is that most people are moderate in their views and if people could calm down and listen to each other for a second, they would probably find a lot of common ground. But the fact is that we have hard core right wingers in charge of the current administration, and they and their more rabid supporters are making the moderate conservatives look bad. And many of the hardcore liberals that are responding with equal fervor are making the moderate liberals look bad. If Bush and his cronies have accomplished anything, it is the huge rift in America right now. Ever heard the saying "divide and conquer"? The fact is that extreme anything doesn't work. If you do any kind of objective research about the Bush admin, it is very clear that they are extremely corrupt and doing major damage to this country. I'll avoid debating the specifics, but the truth is out there and not hard to see. The conservatives have it tough right now. Their leader is one of the most hated people in history, here in America and especially in the world. That doesn't make all or even most Republicans "bad" or "nazis". The problem comes when normally rational people start raving like many of the people in these talkbacks. That kind of blind fervor IS what enabled the Nazis to rise to power. Blind, unquestioning devotion to anything (such as a political party) is a bad, bad thing. This us vs. them, Americans versus Americans bullshit has got to stop.
Zombie - Good suggestion... by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:40:22 PM
... but how do you know that I haven't already served?
What Hitchens doesn't allow for in his broadsides against Michae by Trader Groucho 2	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:40:23 PM
Moore's purpose here is to stir up the pot, to encourage people to ask questions, and do it in an entertaining way. If Moore glosses over the theft of the presidency via the Jeb Bush/Kathleen Harris Florida shenanigans, it's possible that's because he needed to bring in his film at around two hours. If on some issues it feels like Moore's trying to have it both ways, remember, facts on the ground changed forever on September 11. Any attempt to contextualize the past three years in a single film is bound to fall short of the level of thoroughness demanded by Hitchens. Moore put this together quickly to be current and immediately relevant. This ain't a left-wing tome leisurely expanded from a Nation piece.
Moore is using gullible celebrities to market his movie by SexyBeast	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:41:45 PM
Moore doesn't believe his own movie. He does however believe that Bush has to go. So he made up this movie of half truths and conspiracy theories to take votes away from Bush, it doesn't matter if it is true or not. But celebrities are so primitive and naive in their political views they do believe this stuff, so they hype the movie for Moore. Of course Moore has contempt for these stupid people, but he's happy to have their support.
I say, bring back the Whig party baby...YEAH! by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:41:49 PM

TraderGroucho by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:42:18 PM
Nice try on covering up for Moore's exclusions. Fact is, the film is riddled with holes.
what the world needs now... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:43:03 PM
...is love, sweet loooovvveee...
I'd like to screw everyone on this talkback...boy or girl... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:44:42 PM
...cuz I'm just that f***ed up, baby...
...but seriously, I think everyone should see this movie drunk.. by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:45:40 PM
...it would be a lot funnier and we'd all take it a little less harshly...wether you agree with it or not...
lamerz...... by payton 34	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:45:54 PM
I'm not trying to piss in anyone's pot. I don't know if you are from Canada or not. I am and if the Conservatives get in they will change the face of health care in this country that will never be repaired. Private health care is bad and the Liberals know this. I shouldn't just be rich people that get medical attention.
Zombie - No ... by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:46:14 PM
... i haven't. I'm too damn old now. My point in lobbing the question out there was that the assumption was made before the question was even asked.
But Moriarty by Vern	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:46:26 PM
You talk about bullshit like Daredevil, Punisher, Superman etc. for literally months and months, years sometimes. But you're already sick of half a week of promoting a documentary. What's the deal man? I think there is definitely something more than just "I don't like Michael Moore." I think all americans should be happy that somebody is able to so masterfully use the media to finally say what we've all been yelling at the TV for years.
maybe if more politicians were gay, there'd be more love to pass by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:48:45 PM
...but then, Michael Moore would have a heyday with THAT...think of the different kinds of ambush Moore could pull off Charlton-Heston-style with that, beeeaaatttccchhh!!!
to clarify by payton 34	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:50:35 PM
I'm talking about the election in Canada on Monday, not yours in Novemeber.
Maybe if Michael Moore was a dog, the world would be a better pl by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:53:31 PM
... cuz he'd just sit around all day and lick his ballz.
but what would Brian Boitano do... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:54:27 PM
...if he made a documentary about Michael Moore that was a manipulative as Moore is with his opinions? I think Moore should just stick a camera on Marylin Manson and just film him talking for 2 hours...it'd be interesting as all hell...
A Better Review by Sobewankinobi	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:56:43 PM
slate.msn.com
Moore of the Same by scrivener	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:57:53 PM
That review was as full of as many contradictions as a week at the John Kerry campaign headquarters. Moore ruined his credibility when he filmed Bowling for Columbine - while it's an artfully done film - it's fake, false, fabricated. Moore makes constant use of trick tabloid editing techniques to make his bullshit sound more credible. I managed to catch (between your tangent conservative bashing) that Moore's 9/11 is really just Moore of the Same(tm) - artfully crafted tabloiding. The only thing that really separates liberals and conservatives is their view on social issues (Gay marriage, abortion, right to bear arms, etc)... when a President supports social issues the other party dosn't like, they have to resort to fabricating conspiracy in an attempt to regain power - as attacking the social issues isn't good enough - since that's the precise reason the majority put that president in the office to begin with. The same happened to Clinton - the guy was a retard and a womanizer - but so were many US presidents - conservatives just didn't like his stance on certain social issues. Irragardless, Farenheit 9/11 is a pointless, deceptive, and hatemongering film that is ultimately about nothing really, as it can't prove any of the allegations it tries to make. Were it a student research paper, it would have to conclude that the hypothesis was wrong - else get a flunking grade. Palme d'Or my big hairy ass - out of all the great (see: better) movies at this year's Canne, the panel of way-left liberal judges give best picture to Moore, because he's liberal, not because his film accomplished a single goddamned thing. Apparently even you, the liberal hatemongering Mr. Beaks, noticed that Moore's film is shit. Give up. Bush hasn't done a damn thing wrong and the Florida debacle didn't have a leg to stand on. All the votes were counted - and who was it again that was trying to disenfranchise the absentee and military service ballots? GORE! That's who. Shut the fuck up and use your brain instead of your hormones - thats what makes a conservative.
BTW Not a Right Winger by Sobewankinobi	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:58:11 PM
Unfairenheit 9/11 The lies of Michael Moore. By Christopher Hitchens Posted Monday, June 21, 2004, at 12:26 PM PT One of the many problems with the American left, and indeed of the American left, has been its image and self-image as something rather too solemn, mirthless, herbivorous, dull, monochrome, righteous, and boring. How many times, in my old days at The Nation magazine, did I hear wistful and semienvious ruminations? Where was the radical Firing Line show? Who will be our Rush Limbaugh? I used privately to hope that the emphasis, if the comrades ever got around to it, would be on the first of those and not the second. But the meetings themselves were so mind-numbing and lugubrious that I thought the danger of success on either front was infinitely slight. Nonetheless, it seems that an answer to this long-felt need is finally beginning to emerge. I exempt Al Franken's unintentionally funny Air America network, to which I gave a couple of interviews in its early days. There, one could hear the reassuring noise of collapsing scenery and tripped-over wires and be reminded once again that correct politics and smooth media presentation are not even distant cousins. With Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11, however, an entirely new note has been struck. Here we glimpse a possible fusion between the turgid routines of MoveOn.org and the filmic standards, if not exactly the filmic skills, of Sergei Eisenstein or Leni Riefenstahl. To describe this film as dishonest and demagogic would almost be to promote those terms to the level of respectability. To describe this film as a piece of crap would be to run the risk of a discourse that would never again rise above the excremental. To describe it as an exercise in facile crowd-pleasing would be too obvious. Fahrenheit 9/11 is a sinister exercise in moral frivolity, crudely disguised as an exercise in seriousness. It is also a spectacle of abject political cowardice masking itself as a demonstration of "dissenting" bravery. In late 2002, almost a year after the al-Qaida assault on American society, I had an onstage debate with Michael Moore at the Telluride Film Festival. In the course of this exchange, he stated his view that Osama Bin Laden should be considered innocent until proven guilty. This was, he said, the American way. The intervention in Afghanistan, he maintained, had been at least to that extent unjustified. Something
Michael Moore is my sister...no... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:58:47 PM
...he's my daughter...he's my sister AND my daughter...and Project Greenlight shuld do an all-out expose on the making of his films...it'd be GREAT reality TV drama, baby...
MICHAEL MOORE by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:59:24 PM
Bada Bing!
Ruby Ridge by SLEAZY DINOSAUR	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:59:35 PM
The Ruby Ridge incident happened in 1992, while Bush was still president, so the Clinton administration didn't exist yet. Michael Moore should make sure he checks his facts, but so should everyone else.
Lemon Pie by flossygomez	Jun 22nd, 2004 01:59:36 PM
I like lemon pie. mmmmmm! Lemon pie is good. I'm going to have it for lunch. Mmmmmm! Lemon Pie!
THE TERRORIST by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:02:12 PM
Bada Bing!
MOORE WANTS HEZBOLLAH"S SUPPORT by babblerouser	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:05:27 PM
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/n ews/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=390 79 fucking traitor.
Zombie - Actually W did serve... by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:06:32 PM
... in case you forgot. Oh yeah, so everyone that supported breaking away from England in the 1770's served right? And everyone that supported participating in WWI and WWII served right? Send everyone that supports the war to the war. Nevermind that people have to be back home, running the cities, the economy, the country, police, fire, homeland security, stock market, financial sector, R&D, and on and on. Stop everything while the war goes on, and send ALL the supporters to the front lines. Please. Oh, and on a personal note, I wish I had served when I was of age. That was a personal mistake.
Interesting... by Lightmaker	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:09:43 PM
...that no one here has actually SEEN this movie, yet feel so confident in condemning it. It DID win the Palm D'Or and got positive reviews from NY Times, Washington Post, BBC, Ebert and Roeper, Rolling Stone, Time Magazine, Premier, London Times and even FOX NEWS to name a few. Pretty impressive credentials that are difficult to write off, even by the Bush admin spin machine. It would also be interesting to actually talk about a movie we have SEEN and perhaps the CONTENT of the movie rather than on the weight or eating habits of the director.
CAN by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:09:50 PM
Bada Bing!
Educating DearthDeadReagan by Mooly	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:10:01 PM
So you judge me purely on my nickname then? That's extremely smart of you. It's funny how I have never heard the term "mooly" used as a racial slur EVER IN MY LIFE. Also funny how nobody else but you apparently has. So for the sake of fairness I did a google search. GASP! Guess how many references there were to racism and/or racial slurs? ZERO! There were plenty of others with the same nickname, including some executive of Intel. Mooly is also the name of a camera that uses a clockwork motor to run. Mooly is also the name of a type of refrigerator as well as a form of "anthropod insect". There is a Mool Garden peninsula as well as a bunch of mumbo-jumbo dealing with mathematics. So it looks like you are outnumbered by the facts. Nice try though.
Let by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:13:15 PM
Bada Bing!
babblerouser by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:14:05 PM
Thank you, I was just about to post that link to the article on worldnet.
?uestlove (from the Roots) had the best t-shirt ever... by Lost Skeleton	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:14:14 PM
on it was President Bush: American Psycho. Nuff said "2" 6/30/04
message board by moviemaven	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:16:49 PM
Unfortunately, from what I've read, it doesn't appear that anything has been accomplished on this board. All that has happened is name-calling and party-bashing. (On both sides.) Everyone is entitled to an opinion whether you agree with it or not. It's really a shame that in this country people spend more time thinking of their next jab against the other party than really researching the facts and debating them. Personally, I don't agree with Michael Moore's political views. But I have made that decision for myself--not taken it from Fox News or anyone else. And even though I don't agree with him, he still has every right in our country to produce that film and have it viewed by those who wish to see it. It seems though that even he has resorted to using satire to make his jabs at the president as opposed to only stating the facts. But that's his prerogative and right and I'm not about to fault him for it.
HEZBOLLAH & ME by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:18:31 PM
Bada Bing!
BRINGITON - but see, the left is allowed to have inconsistencies by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:18:32 PM
When the right does it, it is a part of an evil conspiracy to take over the world!
What did that shirt say guss? by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:20:59 PM
President Bush: American Hero? 'nuff said.
This Liberal Minded website by Immortal_Fish	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:21:33 PM
I don't care how balanced Beaks was in his review. Some of his points rouse me. - - - - - - - "and, most dangerously, talk radio" -- which, by design, is the largest grass roots movement across the country. Pay them no heed, yes? Pay more heed to the special interest groups that Kerry himself will oust? - - - - - - - "recently justified by the non-partisan 9/11 committee" -- GORELICK is non-partisan? GORELICK, who herself is a partner in the law firm that backs the bin Laden family? She is reputable, and yet we are expected to find Dick Clark and his American Grandstand innocent for shuttling these same people out of the country? Better yet, we are expected to ignore this fact yet focus on the Bush ties to bin Laden? Which way do you want it, Kerry? - - - - - - - Overall, this review was a step in the right direction, as far as this far-left liberal site is concerned. Still, it remains mired in its own ignorance. I'm not a Bushie, but I know what a Kerry smells like when I see it. This site is as evenly balanced in its reporting as is the quoted Washington Post.
AMEN LAMERZ! You by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:22:08 PM
Bada Bing!
ImmortalFish - facts are dangerous to liberals! by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:24:18 PM

simple question to all the Moore haters: If he's such a dirty fu by Tall_Boy	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:27:58 PM
come now, considering how litigious a society we live in, wouldn't have all of MOORE'S supposed FILTHY FUCKING LIES in BFC have spawned an assload of lawsuits? So far he's had one based on that movie and that's from Timothy McVeigh's buddy who stuck the gun in his mouth (he says Moore tricked him). No lawsuits from the NRA. No lawsuits from Chareston Heston. No fucking NOTHING! And if 9/11 is just full of FILTHY FUCKING LIES then when it hits will you really see ONE lawsuit hit at all? Here's an answer for you crazy right wingers - BECAUSE HE'S TELLING THE TRUTH!
KERRY THE REAL ZOMBIE by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:34:52 PM
Bada Bing!
"The left has CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS and your local newspaper yet yo by Sidious-1138	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:36:13 PM
Sorry, but if you still really belive that in the "liberal media" myth YOU are sad. Do some REAL research, read some foreign press coverage of US and world events and you will see what I mean. It seems that to some members of the far right, pretty much anything that doesn't agree with their rather black and white and, yes, NARROW view of things is "liberal". Do you people even really understand what liberal means?
BILL O by ChristianZane	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:37:10 PM

I know very many ethnic slurs, and I have never heard of that on by FluffyUnbound	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:37:28 PM
But then again, the word "jimmy" is used as an ethnic slur in many parts of the east coast. So does everybody named James have to stop using their name now?
Ummm, Zombie - show me the proof by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:37:47 PM
He was there. No records show him AWOL. There was no dishonorable discharge, nor was he brought up on any charges for going AWOL. He was transferred to another base so he could also work on a campaign. Here's one for you, were you as harsh on Clinton when he dodged the draft? Kerry is a war hero? One who admitted he took part in atrocities and war crimes, but yet failed to mention names?
Dead, Raped, Deer by shamalamadingdog	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:38:05 PM
and Crazy Fucking White People RULE! And...oh yeah... Michael Moore is fucktard!
by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:38:27 PM
Bada Bing!
Definition of Liberalism by Sidious-1138	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:40:30 PM
From Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:---------------A movement in modern Protestantism emphasizing intellectual liberty and the spiritual and ethical content of Christianity b : a theory in economics emphasizing individual freedom from restraint and usually based on free competition, the self-regulating market, and the gold standard c : a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties .-----------------Hmmmmm, not quite what the rabid neo-cons make it out to be, is it?
LIBERALS/LEFTISTS by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:43:50 PM
Bada Bing!
Definition of Conservatism by Sidious-1138	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:46:40 PM
disposition in politics to preserve what is established b : a political philosophy based on tradition and social stability, stressing established institutions, and preferring gradual development to abrupt change 3 : the tendency to prefer an existing or traditional situation to change ----------------------Not so bad either. The problem is, the current neo-conservatives are actually more Fundamentalists:--- a movement or attitude stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles
"To describe this film as dishonest and demagogic would almost b by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:48:21 PM
"To describe this film as a piece of crap would be to run the risk of a discourse that would never again rise above the excremental. To describe it as an exercise in facile crowd-pleasing would be too obvious. Fahrenheit 9/11 is a sinister exercise in moral frivolity, crudely disguised as an exercise in seriousness. It is also a spectacle of abject political cowardice masking itself as a demonstration of "dissenting" bravery." Bada Bing!
Now THAT is a review. by Fitzcarraldo2	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:49:46 PM
Eloquent, lucid, passionate yet controlled. Well done, Mr Beaks.
Definition of Leftists by Sidious-1138	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:49:54 PM
those professing views usually characterized by desire to reform or overthrow the established order especially in politics and usually advocating change in the name of the greater freedom or well-being of the common man------Hmmmm, once again, not so bad.
In other news: Gary Oldman is in negotiations to perform a chara by phanboi	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:51:34 PM
I love you all. Please go on with your funny replies. It's the read of my life. Thank you all...
Fiddling While We Burn by Fireball XL-5	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:52:27 PM
Just before coming here to read all this Left-Right nonense I was at another site being treated to the news that A) the South Korean hostage had his head sawed off by terrorists, and B) That the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency has issued a warning that nuclear terrorism is "real and imminent." Are we all missing the point or what?
Man it must suck to be conservative by IndustryKiller	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:52:43 PM
On the losing side of history since the birth of America and counting. Constantly fighting an uphill battle and slowly but surely being phased out. It's true and about the only argument that needs to be made. Call me in ten years and tell me if any part of your conservative agenda still stands, somehow I doubt it.
"Not just a scathing indictment against the President.. but a de by Sidious-1138	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:53:43 PM

"[Moore's] most disciplined and powerful movie to date." - NY T by Sidious-1138	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:54:49 PM

"... a powerful piece of filmmaking by Michael Moore." - Ebert by Sidious-1138	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:56:01 PM

Fireball XL-5 - Thank you for probably the smartest and most rel by Lightmaker	Jun 22nd, 2004 02:59:35 PM

Couldn't have said it better... by frankentron5000	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:00:05 PM
Perhaps one of the most learned, even-handed and researched reviews of a film I have ever read. I will never debate Moriarty on a subject because he will bury me in excruciating loads of truth...despite any of my wild, rage-filled mental flailings. I admire Michael Moore for his drive and dedication to his subject matter, but every piece so smacks of of a need for self-justification that I just can't take him seriously. Moriarty takes the high road, a kind dissection, if you will...while all I could think to say was, "Michael Moore sucks." Well done, Moriarty.
it makes me sad to see franken and moore in the same catergory by MiltonWaddams	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:02:16 PM
moore makes shit up, frequently. franken has teams of fact checkers. i have yet to see one fact disputed in "lying liars", petty he may be, but he's solid.
Well, IndustryKiller, here's how I see it. by FluffyUnbound	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:02:36 PM
The possibility for this cycle of historical development leading to actual freedom or a free society has already been lost. Collectivism has triumphed utterly, although it wears a human enough face that no one sees it or minds. And there is enough "freedom" for everyone who just wants to scratch themselves and fuck, so the system is fairly stable. So all we can hope for, really, is for catastrophe, because there is no other way for justice to be restored. But there really isn't much chance of that happening, when you get right down to it. So in a way, you're right: the future is the craving for security stomping its boots in the face of freedom, forever.
"To dismiss Fahrenheit 9/11 as "Anti-American propaganda" is doi by Sidious-1138	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:04:18 PM

WHILE THE CAT by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:07:28 PM
Bada Bing!
Zombie - about Clinton.... by Lamerz	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:15:40 PM
He took military action several times. He sent our boys into Somalia to get killed, then didn't send more troops when needed. He was is Kosovo. He blew up an aspirin factory in Africa. He sent some cruise missiles into Iraq. He had our planes enforcing the no-fly zones, being shot at every single day with very few responses. He utilized the military quite a bit without ever having served. Regarding Kerry... he is AN ADMITTED WAR CRIMINAL. He said he took part in these activities. He said others did too, and that he was ordered to do them. YET HE NEVER NAMED NAMES. Some hero.
BringItOn and Darth should date... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:17:14 PM
...they already sound like my parents...
...and by the way...Michael Moore's wife... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:20:01 PM
...is kinda homely, huh? I just went over to that article that babblerouser posted on the terrorists Hezbollah's support of Michael Moore..and another article had a pic of Moore and his wife...eeek!!!
"Reagan is a dead asshole"? C'mon dude, that's kinda rude, ain' by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:21:48 PM
We'll all be dead assholes when it's all over...
Fluffy elegantly put, but I wonder what this system is that need by IndustryKiller	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:22:54 PM
Conservatives always seem to harken back to this illusion of a "better time". As if there was an America that was an utter utopia and that somehow we have lost that. What America was that? Would that be the America that wouldn't let blacks go to school with whites? The America in which housewives had to conform to the female norm so many took speed to cope? The America in which our government shipped hundreds of thousands of young men to Vietnam for a moot point? The America where the Christian ideal rules with an iron fist? (we still have to work on that one) I could go on and on obviously. And I know what you are going to say, cynical liberal. Don't get me wrong, this is a brilliant country and we have been a step ahead of our peers in many many ways for a very long time. The point is America was and continues to be a work in progress. At no point, right after WW2 or otherwise did we ever hit some ideal America that must be restored. People where just simpler and more ignorant to their options and different points of view and lifestyles. We were fine with sitting in our small towns en masse and raising children until we die. Well now things are a bit more complicated and many of us want more. It's not that we are becoming some hedonistic planet heading toward a fall because of our decadence. Humanity is simply trying to find it's place in an age where information is endless and constant. And we will. it's just taking a little while because it's new to us. And I'm sorry to say but the conservative agenda (and maybe even religion in a few hundred years) doesn't really fit into that anywhere. There will be no harkening back to the old ways ever under any circumstances short of nuclear war throwing us into a stage of chaos in which case we will have to start over. So all you conservatives better begin praying for armageddon or just sit back, relax, and watch it all unfold.
I'm as drunk ass shit at 3 in the afternoon... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:23:37 PM
...and talk backs haven't been as much fun since The Passion of the Christ. Wooohoooooo!!!!!!!!
dude, I'm ignorant about politics...but I'm talking out my ass a by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:27:28 PM
...more Moore could possibly be the birth of a new oscar category...called "best bitch session"...nominated this year would be "Supersize Me" (something more apparently loves doing) and "F9/11". And the winner is...Harvey and Bob!! That made no sense...sorry...more scotch please...
scotch scotch scotch...scotch in m'belly...yummy in m'tummy.... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:28:00 PM

dude, you're the posterchild of misplaced rage... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:30:29 PM
...you don't even know what party I am...and insulting me because I called your saying "reagan's a dead asshole" rude was...well, childish...check my posts and tell me what side I'm on before you insult someone who could be supporting your view...damn dude, turn down the volume...take your ridlin...or take some more scotch...scotchscotchscotch, scotch in my belly!!!
My Public School Educashion by mrbeaks	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:31:13 PM
Fahrenheit... fahrenheit... fahrenheit... Thanks for making this a big talk back, guys. I get paid per post.
I'm the only talking to you it sounds like...but I've got nothin by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:32:04 PM
..I think
hehehe...beaks, that was the bomb...is that really you? oh hell by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:33:20 PM
scotch scotch scotch...scotch watching movies...Michael Moore's an intellectial gimp...
reagan, I think I'm the only one here... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:36:32 PM
...hand me my ass...be as rude as you want, ...but do you know my opinion? It won't matter anyways, because my thinking you insulting the deceased is rude, that must mean I'm a republican, right? Right? Republicn? Man, you must be a mad little boy...what happened when you were a child? Did some republicans rape you?
reagan...what is your favorite color? red white and blue? by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:38:08 PM
...the capitl of ass-iria?
let the insults begin... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:39:20 PM
...try a post without one, reagan...I dare ya! Can't do it...afraid of sounding adult?
industryKiller - thank you for making an excellent point, there by Sidious-1138	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:40:33 PM
The 50s are often reflected upon as this ideal time. Bullshit! The 50s we so fondly look at in TV and movies DID NOT EXIST. Those films and TV shows were heavily CENSORED by people of similar mentality to those in power today. They did not reflect reality in the 50s any more than the Brady Bunch reflected reality in the turbulent early 70s. And at least Mr. and Mrs. Brady slept in the same bed. They couldn't even say the word "pregnant" on TV in the 50s. The 50s were the era of the McCarthyism and the Red Scare, oppression and racisim. Why do you think they led to the civil outrage of the 60s? Film buffs here should know that the 60s films were rebelling against the oppressive censorship of the 40s and 50s.
this movie will not hurt Pres. Bush in the least bit... by Speedstream	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:40:39 PM
Seriously...think about it. Everyone knows of Moore AND how he is obnoxious...and most people do not care for him. Not at that awards thing...not in public...most people whine when he comes on the tv just about anywhere. If you cannot admit that...(R) or (D)...then you have a seriously problem. Most people do not like Moore. (R) just thinks he is a stupid asshole manipulating the truth for a moment of attention...and (D) just think he is obnoxious therefore destroying credibility. Frankly...b/c this movie is made by Moore, it has already lost credibility on both sides. *****Now to my opinion. Frankly...the movie is shit. Utterly ridiculous. Full of lies and manipulations of the truth. The only reason i would go to see this movie is to possibly burn a poster both before the movie and after the movie was finished right outside the theatre to show what an atrocity it is. I'd maybe even sit through it just to talk and make fun of its gross inaccuracies. I may find some amusement in it b/w gags at the filth Moore is spouting! Utter and total bull is all that this movie is.***DarthDead Regan...you are a pretty sick human being. For you to take joy in the DEATH of another individual...another AMERICAN no matter what your stance on he as a person, is totally disgusting. He was not a casualty of war or a terrorist...he was an AMERICAN PRESIDENT...and for you not to give the man the respect he deserves is sickening to me. Most likely sickening to other liberals as well. You are filth and gutter trash. You are the very bottom of liberal barrel. It is you who needs to be ban from talk backs for your blatant disrespect for a leader of our country you anti-American neo-nazi pig. Its you who are the nazi's. If Clinton died...i do not like the man...but he deserves SOME respect for leading our country...and though i may not like him...his administration or things he did while in it...his position DEMANDS it. He would get that level of respect. But you...you disgust me.***** Lamerz...you are awesome! You held the fort well here against filth like DarthAnti-American Neo Nazi up there...and do all people w/ common sense proud!
darth_deadreagan is a really nice example of fair debate... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:42:16 PM
...he has such pointed examples of a calm, collected presentation of his point of view, never resorting to cursing or namecalling and overheated emotions. Michael Corleone once said: "never let them know what you're thinking"...ie, a debate is won when the loser loses his cool...
I enjoyed your piece, Mr Beaks by JAGUART	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:43:35 PM
Judging from Michael Moore's film and Talkbackers ire, I think there's a market for Pulp Political comic books.
about that childhood rape...no answer? by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:44:08 PM
...that wasn't an insult...it was a genuine inquiry to as to the origin of your misplaced rage within the only real passion of your life: politics. Damn, I would sound a lot better if I was sober...but I'm on vacation baby!!!
I better give an opinion of the actual movie before I get canned by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:47:39 PM
...ok, I think Michael Moore is a compelling storyteller (even though his wife looks like the anti-christ's dime-store hooker). But his movies would be even more effective if he was just accurate with his facts. Moore has no problem with subjectivity...it's accuracy that he has a problem with...oh well...fuck it...MORE SCOTCH!!!!
Re: Pulp Political Comic Books by JAGUART	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:48:52 PM
I'm sorry, I meant to say "Graphic Document"
Actually, I hope for plague. by FluffyUnbound	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:49:33 PM
Not nuclear war. But that's neither here nor there. I quite agree, the religious conservative movement is fighting a battle they cannot ultimately win, and most if not all of their agenda will eventually fail. But that has been a given since Voltaire if not earlier. The only question has always been, will the death of the society and culture that produced christianity, nationalism, and monarchy on the European model lead to greater human freedom? For a long time, it looked like it would. It doesn't look that way any more. We "liberated" women and blacks and everyone else just in time to put them back together with everyone else, under the same yoke. The old will be destroyed, indeed already has been destroyed in all the ways that matter, but that does not mean that we are advancing. And you're also right, other than nuclear war [or preferably, plague] there is no way to hit the reset button, so we're pretty much stuck and may as well make the best of it.
I'm darthreagandead or whatever...and I have no one left to insu by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:50:41 PM
...I'm a shining example of what a humanity-loving, life-valuing (a word? oh well) democrat should be...a potty mouth cry baby...many more democrats have stated thing much better than you on this post...you're just blowing off steam, and giving my vacation downtime some much needed entertaiment...
dude, I'm more articulate than you when I'm piss drunk.. by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:51:42 PM
...then when you're sober and burnin' with passion for politics...
the US should forget oil and invest more in Mithril... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:52:09 PM
...snootchy bootchies!!!
for shits and giggles by Look At My Knees	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:53:42 PM
i'd like to point out that my claims remain unchallenged. SUCK IT, LOSERS!
a drunk asshole is handing deadreagan his ass? by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:54:02 PM
...dude, I'm just fucking with ya...I'm targeting you because you've been the rudest person here...that's all...more entertainment for me...to quote an old friend of yours: "bring it on"
eh, yeah, Bowline for Columbine... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:57:49 PM
...the plaque thingy under the bomber at the Air Force Academy...Michael Moore was totally off the mark here...I was commenting on his filmmaking techniques in general...I admire him because he spins a great tale...but many times, it's a tale in the way that Indiana Jones was a tale...fabricated facts for the sake of entertainment...or for Moore's sake, editorializing...that doesn't make him a bad filmmaker, just not a documentarian...my brain power on scotch is more fun than deadreagan's potty mouth insults...more more, dude, I'm having so much fun!
Speedstream, I agree with you about Reagan... by Sidious-1138	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:58:23 PM
...I didn't care for him as a president but he does deserve respect in death. BUT...your ranting about this movie and Michael Moore is over the top. You haven't even seen it but you are so convinced it is "filth". Why? I Read back your post and see how rabid and irrational you sound. I have yet to ever see a convincing argument that Moore ever actually LIED about anything. I'm not talking about biased editing, I'm talking about flat out lies. As someone pointed out, he has never been sued. There is this huge affort to discredit and condemn him, but what has he actually ever done that was so bad? Pretty much everything he has said about Bush in the past couple of years has been proven to be correct. Doesn't that bother you? The only fact from F 9/11 I have so far hear to be inaccurate is that the bin Ladens were allowed to fly out when planes were grounded. He has supposedly since corrected that in the movie. Bowling was a good movie and I am scratching my head as to why so many conservatives find it so offensive. It asked legitimate questions and never pinned the blame on any one group. Really, why so much hate towards Moore? What has he really done?
someone else answer me...should I go all-out insult on deadreaga by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 03:59:48 PM
and hand him his ass? I haven't uttered a single insult and he's given one in EVERY single one of his posts...should I embarass him? No one's even listening, so yes, regan, you can answer too...
OK, I will take a shot: by FluffyUnbound	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:01:13 PM
I would have allied with Muslim fanatics against communists, too, on the grounds that communism is expansionist, and Islam hasn't expanded territorially in the last several centuries. Of course, I would have done this fully intending to smash the fanatics as soon as they had outlived their usefulness. Nothing like the old "switcheroo". And as for setting Hussein and Khomeini at each other's throats, that's a little realpolitik for my taste, but hey - I would have advocated the invasion of either one, so from that vantage point having them fight each other does not look so morally perplexing.
meh by billofill1982	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:07:30 PM
all i know is these internet ads for this shitty "doc" has me want to bash this "directors" fat face in
Columbine... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:09:30 PM
Littleton, CO police have publicly stated that the kids didn't bowl the morning of the shootings...they attended a morning bowling class during the week, but did not have it that day...and that is a fact...reagan...reagan...copen hagen...please God don't let him sit on my face!!!!
no insults here...not one...but you have had 300... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:11:57 PM
...I'm just seeing how far you can go...damn you're amusing...by the way, no answer on that rape inquiry I had a few posts ago...was it your mother that was raped then and not you? or was it you that raped your mother who was banging a republican? tell me...oh yeah, I just handed the facts of columbine to you in that last post and stuffed it up your ass...
by the way...BADA BING! by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:13:20 PM
...yeah, that's a bit annoying...
where is dead_regan? by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:14:41 PM
...did he get handed his ass by a drunk fella on vacation? where are you regan? did your mom call you to take out the trash? or is it incest time at your household?
BACK TO YOU by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:14:46 PM
Bada Bing!
OK, so I'm reading CNN.com today - by FluffyUnbound	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:15:11 PM
And there's this story about Britney Spears having this big incident when she went to buy a Maltese at a pet store, and I'm thinking "Geez, Britney, couldn't you have gotten a rescue or shelter animal?" Of course, at the same time I'm thinking "I hope Michael Moore gets hit by a bus." It's true, us WASPs love animals but hate Michael Moore. We're guilty. BUT IS THAT SO WRONG?
You liberals are so desperate for a spokesperson - it doesn't ev by Retrace	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:15:22 PM
as long as it sheds a bad light on the president - its good. Gives you something to giggle about with your little liberal friends and take comfort in your tiny little dreams where if you were president, Osama and all the other terrorists would love us and bake us cakes and make baskets for us. Simps!
well, you asked for a fact and I gave it to you... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:16:53 PM
man, you ask for things and when you get it, you run away...you sound like the republicans you're insulting...so back when I said "Michael Moore distorted facts", you said "give me one". And so I did and you didn't even rebuttle? Sounds like you didn't have any answer to it. Admit it, my ONE little statement I made was correct and you couldn't even admit that! You're as bad and the party you're "supposedly" against.
regan...I was gang-raped by your mom and your sister... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:17:58 PM
...and they were both good lays...for republicans...
and if YOUR brain works so good...then how come you're so slow i by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:19:24 PM
quickly now...you may want to type in just keywords to google...try "Michael Moore columbine bowling littleton, CO".
reagan? by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:20:23 PM
helloooo?
where'd you go? by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:21:11 PM
Wa' happend! Hey BringItOn, I think I chased off Reagan.
"If Moore by Sidious-1138	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:22:15 PM
I read an inteview with Moore stating that he regrets not being more active in confronting the critics of Bowling but he has already hired lawyers and has intentions of taking legal action against slander and libel this time around. So it will be interesting to see what happens
oh and BringItOn, don't pay any attention to all those posts whe by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:22:44 PM
...seriously, the guys a raving lunatic...he's like sick with tarets (sp?) symdrome or something...
Michael Moore Kicking Self For Not Filming Last 600 Trips To McD by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:23:49 PM
Bada Bing!
regan's gone soft...so MORE SCOTCH in my belly!!! by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:24:44 PM

left and right by Homer Sexual	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:25:00 PM
Unlike some others, I enjoy this sort of talkbalk, except when it gets really profane. It certainly makes me believe in the "Two Americas" because I really don't think there is a lot of common ground between the two viewpoints. For example, when I said that Moore and Limbaugh both preach to the converted, I was told not to compare them because Limbaugh uses facts (implying that Moore doesn't). I think we can agree that both sides use facts selectively. But nothing any one says or shows me could alter my opinion on GWB and his ilk, and I'm sure the same is true on the other side. I don't know who could possibly bring the two sides, so diametrically and fervently opposed, together. Schwarzenegger? Nah. Could anyone? or will we just remain split in two?
yeah, but if you've seen supersize me, the guy... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:25:35 PM
gains weight over the course of the month...Michael Moore's already there!!! Bada Bing...or something...
Don't worry Retrace, Bush does a perfectly good job of making hi by Lightmaker	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:26:16 PM

homer sexual... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:26:44 PM
...i'm telling ya, Gandalf would be the real shizznit in the office...
well, maybe samwise would too... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:27:17 PM

Bush, the Great American Liar by MinasTirithII	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:27:45 PM
People who follow this fool of a president are bringing down our country, the terrorists are winning with this moron in office.
Patriot Act = Nazism by MinasTirithII	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:29:03 PM
And we all know how Grandpa Bush was charged for holding Nazi money in USA banks.
BRING IT ON! by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:29:53 PM
Bada Bing!
"Michael Moore Kicking Self For Not Filming Last 600 Trips To Mc by Sidious-1138	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:29:57 PM
Dammit, as much as I think we should judge the content of the film and not rip on the filmmaker, I gotta admit that was funny.
you still don't know what party I am...that's why I'm going to c by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:30:23 PM
...you guys missed it...reagan totally derailed any sort of sense and went straight for insult...and when I played along, he hasn't been able to more than his 4 words to insult me back...I'm articulate...you bet baby, a lot more than you when I'm drunk then when you're smokin' your political joint that's got you jonzing for a shot of heroin in the penis vein and wanting to go and make whoopie with your republican mother and sister...
Fight for America, Dump Bush by MinasTirithII	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:30:25 PM
the liar
Beak is a moron (R) by MinasTirithII	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:32:08 PM
for that I feel sorry for him] So many (R) so fearful cause of 9-11.
reagan...try a post about me that doens't have the following wor by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:33:10 PM
1. hypocritical 2. ignorant 3. drunk or 4. moron...you've overuse these words, my friend. Try being articulate...and before you post, go to www.webster.com and there's a nice little thesaurus feature there you could really use the help of...MORE SCOTCH! Less DeadReagan!
Why Bother To Review This Trash by johnkerrysgay	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:33:35 PM
Is the left really so far in trouble that they have to use a extremist like Moore to attempt to bring down a President in a time of war. At least Moore can count on his socialist friends to watch it. I already heard Al-Jazeera television will run his movie non-stop between reviews and scoring of the Moore's Al Qaeda friends beheadings of innocent people. At least we have FOX News giving us the real stories without all the anti-bush ABC/CNN stories they pop out every other day.
and remember, webster doesn't have profanity in it's dictionary. by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:34:14 PM
...so you'll have to be creative there on your own...next?
reagan...Creative Writing 101 when you get to college about 15 y by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:36:20 PM
...it's a good class and it'll help...also, there's also bound to be classes on journalistic ethics and historical fact research that would also interest you...write this down, it'll be years before you need it...by the way, I'm handing you your ass and you're still online over at WEBSTER.COM?
OK: how about the BFC cartoon? by FluffyUnbound	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:36:41 PM
Moore includes a cartoon in Bowling for Columbine where he has the Ku Klux Klan turning into the National Rifle Association, accompanied by narration implying [but not stating, because he knows the implication is false and wants to sneak it by] that the NRA was formed because the Klan was made illegal. This is as simple and gross a historical falsehood as claiming that US Grant was a confederate general, or that the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor. It is deliberately done to mislead the audience about the history of a group Moore is seeking to argue against.
reagan? by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:36:59 PM

reagan? by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:37:08 PM

where is reagan, precious? by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:37:23 PM

Facts! by Ben Dobyns	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:38:00 PM
Facts? Facts? Just because somebody tells you it's true doesn't mean it is. That's like saying you're "fair and balanced" because you say you're "fair and balanced." The levels of deceit, misrepresentation, and outright lies from pundits on both the left and right far outstrip their supposed commitment to the facts. Calling Rush truthful is like calling Moore modest. For those of you who don't have a clue, "facts" are what you end up with when you do "research" based on "rational thought" and "sound methods" of analysis. Something is not a "fact" just because somebody claims that it is. It's a "fact" if you can prove it using real research, work, and a freakin' open mind. Now, I'm claiming a particular definition of "fact" based on something called my "opinion". My "opinion" is generated by my own personal paradigms, belief systems, cultural conditioning, and a priori assumptions. If your definition of "fact" is based on lies, mistruth, and an unwillingness to think, then bully for you. Just don't expect me to give a drop of credence to the claim that the majority of Rush's hateful rants are based on any kind of scientific, accurate, or academically valid method of analysis. Or for that matter, that Moore's are either. Why do I make that claim? Because I've taken the time to research the issues for myself. But don't believe me. Don't accept anything I'm saying. Go out and start thinking for yourselves, rather than letting other people spoonfeed you brain mush. Geez.
and now, the severe beating of an internet user named DeadReagan by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:38:25 PM
"ow...ew!! ugh!!! stop!!! uncle!!! ok ok, I'll be your bitch!!!"
BILL MURRAY ONLINE! by winstonrifles	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:38:25 PM
If i can just split you guys up for a minute. www.billmurray.co.uk has just gone live. The most up to date source for Bill on the web. Loads of stuff in there at the moment but audio, video clips and a forum will be added soon. You can carry on now. Go!
WET SOUL is right: Verbosity doesn't mean you're smart! by RenoReno	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:38:26 PM
That review could have been edited in a 60 or 70%. What a waist of time. Anyways, this country needs a change of goverment, and hopefully M.M. movie, will help to illustrate why.
Idiot (R) by MinasTirithII	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:41:03 PM
"Is the left really so far in trouble that they have to use a extremist like Moore to attempt to bring down a President in a time of war." Yeah, that's why you have groups in the (R) trying to stop the movie from being shown. Desperate indeed. Why is the (R) so fearful of Moore? Chicken shits.
Bush Dudge Nam by MinasTirithII	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:43:28 PM
so he could do cocaine and drink a lot, some president, here's to him sending your kids off to war, and hopefully a draft will get started
dude, you really DID go to webster.com!!! HAHAHAH!!!! by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:43:58 PM
wow, dude you really went to webster online!! HAHHAHA! You were almost one-for-one on that one....hmmm, let's see: 1) hypocritical = self-contradicting...2) uninformed = ignorant 3) drunk = alcoholic, and 4) moron = dipshit...dude, you weren't supposed to REALLY go there...that just shows you're a dweeb from your mom's tit. What I meant was write something creative. See you have to read the subtexts in a rant like mine to get the overall jist of what I'm suggesting. Wow, that was too funny!!!!
DARTH: You actually made one fact-like statement amidst sea of by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:47:08 PM
Bada Bing!
I am a knight dedicated to the cause of crushing the insult-obse by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:47:20 PM
...because all you could do a few post back was insult. Now that's I've got your brain power going, you should take what I've just taught you (posting intelligently and without resorting to insult...although, you haven't really done that...but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt). So, yes, take what I've just schooled you on and continue with everyone else in a nice, calm and rational manner...if you can. Damn, I'm losing my buzz because I really do care about you, Reagan...HAHAA! More Scotch!!!
HERE IT IS - by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:48:19 PM
Bada Bing!
REAGAN GAVE HUSSEIN CHEMICAL WEAPONS IN THE '80'S by bushsux	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:48:30 PM
Gee, I wonder where Sadaam got the WMD? From his inside his ass? Didn't the Reagan administration support Iraq during the Iran-Iraq War of the 1980's? Gave his military weapons, chemical weapons among those included? Seriously, the Republicans have all these conservative whinos packing the airwaves with their bullshit. O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Hannity etc. You can't turn on the radio or tv without hearing one of these morons but if Michael Moore makes a documentary that people have to actually go out to the theatress and see it's "OH MY GOD!!! WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO!!??! MAYBE THE LITTLE PEOPLE WILL FIND OUT THE TRUTH!!!" Why do you conservatives panic so much at the thought of one guy and his movies? Is he that much of a threat? Is the truth really that scary. C'mon Republicans, I want some feedback!
scotch scotch scotch...scotch in my belly...I love scotch!!! by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:49:24 PM

damn, nekkid women on the beach!!! by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:49:38 PM

be right back fellow humans...and reagan... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:50:19 PM

Bush has failed to provide Bullet Proof Vests for up to 30,000 t by MinasTirithII	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:50:51 PM
yea
Bush- "We are a nation of laws, we follow laws. Looks that laws by MinasTirithII	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:52:15 PM
you are the best
re: BFC Cartoon by Sidious-1138	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:52:37 PM
I've read that one Fluffy, and it doesn't hold water. All the cartoon says is that the NRA was formed around the time the KKK became illegal. Hardly a "gross historical falsehood" or a even lie on the most basic level. A gross lie or falsehood would be something like "we have to go to war because Iraq conspired with Al Queda" or "we have to go to war because Iraq is harboring a massive stash of WMDs" or "the 300 billion dollar+ deficit will be eliminated in a few years". Which is worse?----Anyway, please provide me with an example of Moore's lies and why he should be so despised.
Bush= ""I'm honored to shake the hand of a brave Iraqi citizen w by MinasTirithII	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:55:00 PM
fff
Another Thing by bushsux	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:55:47 PM
About the Kerry bashing. The guy is a lock to win in November. I'm sorry conservatives, it's over. It's so over some poltical analysts are wondernig if the Democrats can take back the House and Senate as well. The reason why Kerry will win is because most Americans, as well as the rest of the world, are sick of the current leadership. You've gotta admit, your guy has done a pretty piss poor job since losing the popular vote in 2000. The economy? 9/11? Iraq? All the good will the rest of the world had with the US after 9/11 was squandered after Iraq. Yes, Kerry voted for Iraq and the Patriot Act. Yes, Kerry is going to win because he is not Bush. Clinton won in '92 because he wasn't Bush. What did Clinton do in Arkansas that was so impressive? He won because George Herbert Walker was doing a piss poor son, just like his spawn is now.
Smartest thing the ... "for the wealthy" Republicans ... ever di by JDanielP	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:56:36 PM

ew... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:56:38 PM
damn, they were all butterfaces...you know "everythings good butt-her-face"!! hehe...
Whatever Lights. by FluffyUnbound	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:57:55 PM
I wouldn't have expected that sort of obtuseness for you. If ANY OTHER filmmaker used those particular lines of narration, I'd think MAYBE he was "just commenting" about the fact that they "just happened" to be founded at similar times. It would be extremely unlikely, but possible. But what about the cartoon itself? And considering the fact that Moore uses misdirected implication in EXACTLY THE SAME MANNER over and over again in "Roger and Me", there is absolutely no way to mistake his intent. There is no other reason to mention the Klan at all, except to create a false association, and CERTAINLY no reason for the cartoon. If I made a cartoon of Kerry changing into a ninja costume, accompanied by the narration, "John Kerry is the same height, weight and age as the dreaded ninja rapist of Middlebury Connecticut" and then tried to claim that I was just commenting on the funny coincidence of their height and weight, you would laugh me out of town.
my sole purpose in this talkback was entertainment... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 04:59:59 PM
...and getting to school someone on throwing insults...which DeadReagan has given me in plenitful form on both fronts there...by the way, Reagan, can I have your ass back...I believe I left it with you! HEhehe...no really, a few posts back you can actually see that I didn't insult you until like the 300th time you insulted me and everyone else...you still haven't learned...and by the way, you may want to pay less attention to punctuation than to content...that way, when someone presents a fact, you can read what's really important...hey reagan, what did you think of the Passion? Were you on here under a different name? How often do you change it to hide behind?
reagan? by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:01:54 PM
Come out comeout wherever you are!! Play nice...c'mon...just ONE intelligent, unemotional, subjective post...you can do it!!!! We're all rooting for you...MORE SCOTCH!
scrivener - time for a smackdown by Trader Groucho 2	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:04:10 PM
Kerry's so-called flip-flopping was the major talking point for the coordinated conservative attack-dog media pundits two weeks ago. You are entirely behind the curve there dude. Kerry at least thinks through issues, weighs the nuances of particular bills and votes based on the facts. Bush/Cheney/Rummy/Ashcroft keep repeating the BIG LIE even in the face of their own bipartisan commission's objective report (reference here is the "ties" between Al Qaida and Saddam). Gore wimped out on the recount in Florida. The Democrats wimped out in not demanding a constitutional amendment excising the inflamed appendix that is the Electoral College. What you got stone-cold wrong is Gore trying to disenfranchise anyone in Florida. That was done through the printing of incredibly confusing butterfly ballots and the harrassing of Black voters on election day there. That was done months before by culling from the rolls tens of thousands of Black voters using a faulty computerized model that took people out for felonies committed in the year 2007 (they must have consulted Nancy Reagan's astrologer). And BTW, Jeb Bush and Kathleen Harris have admitted as much by quietly settling the lawsuit over this patently illegal election-stealing behavior out of court.
in my best "Robin" voice: "Holy Fucking Shit, DevilCat!" you ma by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:05:43 PM
...the movie will stand up to filmmaking standards as being entertaining...but subject matter is always the focus for reviews. Roger Ebert, while I don't totally agree with him most of the time, says it best: a movie isn't good based on what WE THINK it should do, but based on what IT WANTS TO DO. And in this case, I'm sure F9/11 is going to be considered as well made...just like the Passion.
my absolute favorite url for a website right now: www.johnkerryi by Trader Groucho 2	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:05:54 PM
2 kewl
DARTH by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:06:15 PM
Bada Bing!
and where the hell is reagan? have we been robbed of his presen by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:07:20 PM
...I saw him go into the bathroom with a jar of vaseline...he'll be right back...oh wait, his sister's in there too...it'll be a while...reagan? you there?
There was a time when Democrats were not slapped with labels (li by JDanielP	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:09:56 PM

SHOW ME DARTH! Right now, provide us with evidence of your alleg by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:10:58 PM
Bada Bing!
Fluffy, your Kerry analogy doesn't work because by Sidious-1138	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:11:52 PM
it isn't based on fact, whereas the BFC cartoon is. Likening Kerry to a Ninja rapist or whatever sounds outlandish because it IS. They are not comparable examples at all. Can you say with any authority that there ISN'T a connection between the KKK becoming illegal and the formation of the NRA around the same time? You can't, and that means your conclusions are just as inaccurate as you claim Moore's supposed implication to be.
dude, have you been smoking crack today? by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:12:59 PM
all of my first posts were so NON-insult ridden, that you couldn't stand it. The only way I could even get you to think outside of your insult box was to start doing it to you (and much better than you I might add...just read back and try to bite down the jealousy). Also, you're coming real close to being intelligent, that last one was better than most. Now, direct it towards the other talkbackers you've been dealing with and tell them something without insult...you can DO IT, DUDE! Come on, you're representing the liberal point of view here and you aren't even DOING anything credible for it. TRY! TRY! Remember, intelligence. Forget about me a make a real point and do it like an adult (like I was before I decided to stoop to your level and communicate with you through insults...which I think I'm done with now)...okay, now, DeadReagan...GO!
Reagan, almost! But try to "back up" your statments now (you wa by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:14:31 PM
...the whole beach can hear you out here...
Here's some material from Moore's own website, Lights. by FluffyUnbound	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:17:16 PM
http://www.michaelmoore.com/wo rds/wackoattacko/ "I also realize that you just don't go after the NRA and its supporters and then not expect them to come back at you with both barrels (so to speak)." Since he states that he went after the NRA, this would seem to indicate that he feels that BFC was his method of going after the NRA. "CNN actually put some guy on a show saying that my film contains "so many falsehoods, one after the other, after the other, after the other." They introduced him as a "critic" and "research director" of the "Independence Institute." He seemed mighty impressive. Except they failed to tell their viewers who he really was: a contributing editor of Gun Week Magazine. CNN saw no need to inform the viewers that their "expert"-- who has made a career out of opposing any form of gun control
...ok, the whole "giving a shit about poor people" statement the by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:18:12 PM
...what would you say if I gave you a statment like that? Ok, I'll tell you...ahem (in my best whiny DeadReagan voice): "damn you're an ignorant republican asshole fuckface!! what kind of a statment is that? That's not a fact...give me some back up to that!!". How did I do? Did I sound like a whiny bitch with a skinned knee? (I guess I not done instulting after all...dammmit...see what you've contaminated me with, Reagan!)...
UNSUBSTANTIATED RUMORS! Ok by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:18:26 PM
Bada Bing!
Lamerz - congratulations on taking in, believing and regurgitati by Trader Groucho 2	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:18:28 PM
He never said he was a war criminal, nor has he ever admitted to war crimes. BTW what would you call Bush/Cheney/Rummy completely ignoring the Geneva Convention and any sense of human decency in the treatment of Iraqi prisoners, if not a war crime???
Good point about fear in BFC, Ancient Lights by Sidious-1138	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:19:39 PM
Well said and getting away from the hysteria and actually looking at what the film says.
sunny beach + dim laptop screen = eye strain! by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:20:03 PM
see you guys...DeadReagan, I hope you grow as a person...peace out, brother...I love ya!
Enough with the Republican Bullshit and Lies by 002	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:20:35 PM
I'm against gun control. I didn't see Bowling for Columbine. I heard of the connection Moore made between the NRA and KKK and I think it's off-base. This new movie though, the stuff he talks about makes sense. You conservatives can play your fucking games and make 10,000 little posts. Me? I know who the fuck I'm voting for and it ain't for four more years of this bullshit.
GWB has exploited 9/11 but he couldn't have known beforehand. by Homer Sexual	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:22:13 PM
For some reason, I can't resist talking back on this thread. Shame on me! But to say the GW knew about 9/11--that's going too far, even on him. OTOH, I doubt even his supporters think GW cares about poor people, but that's not really the topic we're discussing. As a Democrat, I must admit that I am unhappy with Kerry as a candidate, due to his being a typical Democrat who hedges his bets and doesn't stand up for his true values enough. I can't get behind a Dem who ever, at any point, supported the Iraq "war." The one thing I respect about Republicans is that they stand up for themselves. But I'd vote for anyone over GW. Sunday had a whole hour of Clinton, making me "sigh" for the good old days of a president I really, truly admired. Let the bashing begin!
DeadReagan, really, you're a fellow American and I would help yo by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:22:28 PM
...so, I hope you are satisfied with your life. Just try and calm down a bit and keep smiling, there ARE good things in your life. You just have to look a bit harder...later...
BAN DARTH NOW! by AMERICANgirl	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:23:07 PM
NOW!
Damn straight...this Darth Dude with the disrespectful attitude by Over_The_Top	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:23:54 PM

Actually, I can, Insidious. by FluffyUnbound	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:24:43 PM
The Klan was founded by former confederate soldiers in former confederate states. The NRA was founded by former Union soldiers in non-confederate states. The man who made the Klan illegal, Ulysses S. Grant, then retired from the Presidency to head the NRA. Saying or implying that the Klan founded the NRA would be as silly as claiming that American World War I veterans founded the German Nazi Party, or that Frenchmen founded the Yakuza.
DARTH! YOU MAKE NO BLOODY SENSE YOU NITWIT! by SuperFAN2004	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:24:53 PM
Seriously, Harry, ban this guy, for the good of the board.
Nuprin - GW's mom ain't exactly a looker either, and it's inner- by Trader Groucho 2	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:25:05 PM
But so what? God bless Michael Moore for seeing past his wife's looks and marrying her for deeper reasons. And why didn't all those sanctimonious two-faced assholes who excoriated Clinton for a beej take GHW to task for turning out his press secretary like Hugh Hefner when the viagra truck arrives?
We by DCcomicMAN	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:26:22 PM
Did I mention Darth is an ass!?!?!?
As a liberal, and as some one who intends to see this movie, I w by JerseyMarvelHERO	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:27:30 PM
Ban him now!
I thought you were gone (masturbating)!!! Okay...well...once di by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:27:53 PM
Reagan is dead and deserved a courtesy given to a human being (a value which, as an American, I hope you value...but I'm starting to think you're a traitor to this country given your raving rants). Moore's wife is alive and filthy rich because of her husband's "filmmaking", and therefore, open to the suparficial ridicule of everone outside of hollywood. Also, since you're searching back for stuff to big up about me (damn, you're taking ALL my advice aren't you), you'll see that I was nice at first, and you lashed out at me...and still to this moment, you don't know where I stand...you just hated me for being "anti-YOU". If that's your definition of being American and democrat, damn, I just might ignore EVERYTHING damn thing you said today...really...so...your mom's waiting for me in the bedroom, so I'll catch you later...
don't ban Darth by Homer Sexual	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:28:45 PM
Even though he's rather,um, enthusiastic, in what way is he worse than BRING IT ON? And do we want to be banning people for getting worked up over politics in a thread that just begs for hotheaded political babbling?
I just wanted to say, "good luck, we're all counting on you..." by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:31:18 PM
...no really, thanks, DeadReagan, you gave this drunk nigga the time of his life today! Good luck with your anger management and schooling (high school's going to be SO MUCH FUN for you!!!). So, my final few words to you as you enter the 9th grade: try to stay away from drugs, don't prematurely ejaculate when you're on 1st base with a girl, wear a condem the first time you screw a chick that isn't in your immediate family, and finally: always flush (that goes for what comes out of your mouth too)!
And one thing I don't understand... by FluffyUnbound	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:32:28 PM
Let's say that BFC really wasn't anti-NRA at all, but instead was just trying to show how fear infects American life and makes it more violent. If that is the case, why does Moore now hate the NRA? Why does he talk about how only "gun nuts" are stopping gun control? If Canada is so safe with all of its guns, and if the problem is fear and not the guns per se at all, why is more gun control Moore's ANSWER? Why is the NRA "sick and repulsive" and a bunch of Holocaust deniers because they AGREE that guns aren't the problem? And, if the truly guilty are those who contribute to a climate of fear - doesn't BFC itself contribute to that climate? Aren't we supposed to come out of the film MORE afraid of the guns in our neighbours' houses? Wouldn't that make MOORE the problem, and not the NRA?
HomerSexual...I think I was worse than him...but I was trying to by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:32:34 PM
...other than pointing out that a drunk nigga like me on vacation could out word his insults, I wanted to calm him down in his own game...let's see if he can play nice now...
That Lemon Pie Recipe by flossygomez	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:32:34 PM
So many people have called me about this, so here it is! Drop by the zoo and see my sentient feces anytime you crazy pin striped toothless nipple cutters! Pie Crust: 1 1/2 C. flour 1/2 t. salt 1/2 C. shortening 2 1/2 - 3 T. ice water Sift flour and salt. Add shortening and mix it in with a pastry cutter, until it looks like cornmeal. Sprinkle water, 1 T. at a time over the mixture and lightly toss, until it comes together in a ball. Let rest 10 minutes. Roll out until it fits in a 9 inch pie pan. Flute edges. Chill 1 hour or more before baking. Bake at 400
It by AMERICANgirl	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:33:03 PM
He should be banned yesterday!
Fair enough, Fluffy by Sidious-1138	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:35:42 PM
Though I think your analogy to WWI vets forming the Nazis is a bit extreme. The 2 groups were based in the US after all, confererate or non-confederate states. BUT, you still cannot say Moore lied and I think Ancient Lights hit it on the head when he said that Moore was showing how fear motivates people. That was the ultimate point of the cartoon.
well said, AmericanGirl! I guess I was trying too hard to make by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:35:54 PM
...I won't waste my time any more...unless, it gets fun again...damn, I'm losing my buzz, again...MORE SCOTCH!!!
THANKS FOR THE KIND WORDS AMERICAN GIRL! It is true that I have by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:36:55 PM
Bada Bing!
American Girl... by Homer Sexual	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:38:14 PM
I just don't see the difference, or why you're so eager to get Darth banned. Everything we all say here is unsubstantiated, and there have been plenty of personal attacks--Lamerz even admitted it before signing off--from both sides. Even Darth's nemesis nuprin isn't calling for a ban, he is enjoying(?) the back and forth (while on vacation on the beach, rather than in his office pretending to work like some of us).
so I admit, I leveled personal things against DarthReaganDead or by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:39:15 PM
...to be rational and nice...and now that's he's back in hiding, I wish I could've told him how much I cared for him as a person...how I wanted him to grow in maturity and take it with him into young adulthood...but I got caught up in "teaching him his lesson" and went overboard on my insults too, if only to get him to beat his own game and be fair and intelligent...I guess I became what I hated in DeadReagan...and now i'm still spewing a few insults...(head down) I am ashamed!!! But then, it was kinda fun...
My pleasure fellas! By the way, what by AMERICANgirl	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:40:24 PM

bring it on...that's ALL I've been trying to do (we're all like by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:43:03 PM
...I hope he makes calm posts from now on...but after a few HOURS of this, he was still doing his thing (with no help from me...sorry...got carried away), but honestly, I was trying to get him to do just what you're asking...to no avail. I'm not his nemesis...just a drunk who saw some "bad vibes" and wanted to quelch it out of the post...and maybe now, it looks like we can get back to talking about the movie and rational points of view...
DARTH and NUPRIN may have their thing (with DARTH actually being by AMERICANgirl	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:43:24 PM
Got it?
you haven't been silenced yet, boy...so use your time wisely and by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:44:58 PM
...that last statement you made didn't give us the least bit of a clue that you've matured (all my efforts have been wasted) 8-(
No Darth, we need to ban only mean, nasty people who get their j by SuperFAN2004	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:46:36 PM

American Girl...you sound kinda hot...are you single? hehehe... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:46:46 PM
...let's start the conversations over and get back to the movie and give Darth another chance...
I won't ever change my name to "Clintons A Dead Asshole Who Was by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:49:08 PM
because I respect dead presidents of our country, even though I don't like EVERYTHING they do...
I never knew a whale could make a movie... by spectrebeeyatch	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:49:23 PM
But Moore proved that wrong, I mean the only reason he is doing this is because he never got his pizza hut coupons and now he is on a mad rage. Anyway what pisses me off is if I made a movie about why Liberals are evil or like why Micheal Moore is so fat and stupid, I would be called a nazi, so it's just not fair, also it pisses me off that all the idiots who go see it won't understand that everything the Moore says are lies or just very well worded truths that he makes look bad with good editing, well screw that I'd rather go watch White Chicks one billion times before I see this piece of crap "documentary"
C'mon Fluffy, Moore never called NRA "gun nuts" or "Holocaust de by Sidious-1138	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:51:15 PM
That's just the kind of crap you supposedly despise Moore for, don't do it yourself. He never called the NRA as a whole gun nuts. He was referring to specific people who are gun nuts, of whom I'm sure the NRA is not particularly proud of. His exact words were "individual gun nuts". And he never called NRA members Holocaust deniers.
no, you're not a "total fucking hypocrite", just a total hypocri by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:52:39 PM
...like I said before, I gave you plenty of chances to be nice before I even uttered one word against you or even your opinions (is your memory so short? don't you remember how things started out between us? it's all right there you can cut and paste and send to your therapist)...please just grow up now before you have to change your name again...
by the way, I AM trying to help you...which makes me the better by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:56:20 PM
...but are you LISTENING to EVERYONE else recently...they're talking about banning you not for your political opinions but for how you're malicious and mean (you don't see those who shared your opinion today get so close to being banned...and that's because they were trying to be decent adults...or at least decent). I feel so sorry for you...child of a angry generation without a watergate or vietnam to lash out against...you don't een know why you're angry, do you?
So here`s a clear translation of the first line of that review: by Robofag	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:56:21 PM
"The great triumph of the Bush II Administration has been their ability to secure mass media compliance under the threat of shutting off access to its key players, thereby ensuring, depending on the outlet
and please, DeadReagan, take note that I am no longer stooping t by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 05:59:08 PM
...which was a bad example to begin with...but now, I'm intent on still having a good time on this talkback...and by the way, my buzz is totally gone...MORE SCOTCH IN M'BELLY
Let's suppose that 50% of this film is comprised of blatant, com by Lightmaker	Jun 22nd, 2004 06:02:28 PM
..that would leave 50% that is completely true. Doesn't that disturb you, even you die hard Bush supporters? If that were the case then, yes, Moore should be chastised for the lies, but the BIGGER issue would be the truths that are revealed about our President and government. Regardless of how you feel about Moore, the issues in this movie are important and need to be explored. The reality is that even if there are blatant lies in the film, they are likely much less than 50% or even 10%. I can't remember when a president has been accused of as many terrible, serious things as Bush has. Some of it has to have some merit and that should concern ALL Americans.
AmericanGirl...I didn't mean to scare you with that "are you sin by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 06:05:02 PM
DeadReagan, I hope I hear of your journey into rational discussion...or at least discussions that aren't profane and malicious...you know, anger and rage has lead A LOT of unfortunate things in this world: columbine (reference pun fully intended), the taliban, terrorism, and moral choas. Please don't contribute to this anymore. If you are religious, please consider becoming a more firm believer in whatever sytem you place your moral center. If you aren't, please know that the political heirarchy that you so passionately defend (and attack against) was founded on a value system that cares for basic human dignity. We all may think you're a pain right now, but I'm sure someone out there loves you enough to inspire some good intentions for you to share with the world.
No problem NUPRIN, I am flattered. Better to be hit on by guys by AMERICANgirl	Jun 22nd, 2004 06:22:35 PM
I still say, DARTH should be BANNED.
Judas' Priest: "A leader that disregards the wishes of the peopl by Triumph poops!	Jun 22nd, 2004 06:22:52 PM
Uh, Earth to Judas' Priest. Reality check for you. Here in the US, essentially every major news poll finds that the MAJORITY of US citizens (1) still support the war, regardless of not finding WMD and (2) the MAJORITY clearly feels the Middle East is far better off with Saddam gone. In fact, as the transfer of power to the Iraqi governing council approaches, numbers favoring the war have actually gone UP. As have Bush's approval rating. The final judgment comes in November and the election, but by November -- once a few months have passed where the governing council HAS been in power AND most likely has been getting larger UN assistance, the real picture will be told. As for good will, Bush has mine because he did what I feel is right. Hell, Bush took it easy as far as I'm concerned. If it was up to me I would have just nuked the Al Qaeda fuckers. The Middle East is filled with scumbags who just need to be off the planet. THAT'S the real solution to terrorism.
americangirl puts things in perspective, darth should be banned by Over_The_Top	Jun 22nd, 2004 06:24:04 PM

I'm sick and tired of reading the abusive hate speach from Darth by SuperFAN2004	Jun 22nd, 2004 06:25:24 PM

I have to admit you guys hit the nail on the head about this DAR by DCcomicMAN	Jun 22nd, 2004 06:26:28 PM

I'll do my part. We all need to pitch in and make sure that mea by JerseyMarvelHERO	Jun 22nd, 2004 06:27:34 PM

Hey Darth DeadReagan...I fucked your mother in the ass last nigh by vash666	Jun 22nd, 2004 06:30:36 PM
Did I get your attention, bitch? Before you scream like the little twat that you are, let me assure you I have no affiliation with either Democrats or Republicans. I hate them equally and those who support either side's agenda without question deserve the mediocre government they get. The only reason I am targeting you is that, in all my time visiting this site, I have never come across something as pitiful and pathetic as you. You are shrill and lack even a shred of intellectual fiber in your sexless, lonely little body. Get a life pussy, as your presence here is seriously sapping any quality conversation that might be had. P.S. Tell your mother to wash next time before I backdoor her.
Too bad you have the math WRONG, Lightmaker. 50% of the movie is by Big Dumb Ape	Jun 22nd, 2004 06:32:30 PM
So basically this movie is 100% slanted bullshit. What a shock coming from a blowhard like Moore who publicly states that he's NOT interested in telling the truth OR in making a documentary, but in getting an "emotional reactional" to sway votes. In other words, this film is pure propaganda akin to what Hitler produced to motivate his populace and rally his troops. Quite frankly, Michael Moore is WORSE than Sean Hannity's or Rush Limbaugh's because while he's their polar opposite politically and a media darling, he doesn't rely on facts -- he just likes to play with emotions till he gets the desired result he wants. Truth is, Moore is a cocksucking, fat assed unpatriotic weasel who can't choke on a bone fast enough for me as he gorges his fat ass yet again. So if he or his lackeys ever read these talkbacks for public opinion, Michael, do the world a favor and order the chicken TONIGHT...
DARTH! SHUT UP! by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 06:41:21 PM
You have no right to treat ladies like that. Now I'm going to get on this banning idea. You can't expect to win converts by being a jerk to everyone! Bada Bing!
I'll never understand why people "hate" Michael Moore... by Russman	Jun 22nd, 2004 06:41:42 PM
I see him as an activist and also an entertainer. What is he saying that makes you hate or fear him so much. The man is yelling out to a nation of apathetic and ignorant C, D & F students - Wake Up - don't believe the horseshit that you're being forcefed. Things are not hunky dory and your government doesn't always have your best interests and the best interests of your children in mind. This is the truth. Time and time again our government has openly lied to us, deceived us and robbed us. BOTH parties have made mistakes - but the worst crimes in the past 20 years have been commited by the Republicans/Conservatives/Nazi s. And this is the truth. In the past 20 years, ignorant and the less apathatic voters have allowed themselves to be tricked into electing a bunch of really bad people. And I'm not saying that they're bad because they're Republicans, I'm saying they're bad because they've done some really bad things. All that's missing on these people are black hats, black capes and handle bar mustashes (and more so than ever - a bible in their hand). The stuff is in the history books about ronnie regan and about king george and in time more and more stuff will come out about little king george. But the fact that this badness is on record will of course be forgotten, as our school systems don't really teach history very well and people just like to whitewash history too (ie: ronnie's death a couple weeks ago). Put aside the "creative editing" that Moore does on some of his pieces and look at the core message - It's Wake Up, You're being robbed and Rome is burning. I applaud the creative editing for it's shock factor. People are so drugged with propaganda that they don't know how to think or form their own opinions on issues. If it takes a jump cut to get a point through the fog of propagand and Fox News Lies, then do the jump cut, ambush the CEO or the Senator and ask them a question that they should know the answer too. Get in their face and ask them why did they so easily help weaken our civil liberties with the Patriot Act. This is important stuff. Freedom must be protected from enemies from afar and from within... and folks, our greater enemy is within. As much as you don't want to believe it, our enemy is here and it is us and many of you voted him and his henchmen into office because you are to ignorant to see the big picture. A couple guys in a cave with some bombs can't take over our country - the only human military force that can take over our country is our own military force. Shame on Michael Moore? Ha, shame on you. Shame on all of you who don't vote and can't see through the lies and the code words and base hatred that fuels the core of the Republican Party.
Judas Priest: "In my opinion, Al Gore should've fought Bush over by Triumph poops!	Jun 22nd, 2004 06:43:00 PM
Uh, Earth to Judas AGAIN. Newsflash for you, buddy -- he DID take it to the Supreme Court and the justices ruled correctly: namely, that Gore and the Democrats couldn't change Florida state election rules AFTER the fact simply to get the results he wanted. Whatever recount was going to be done had to be done and over with and certified by the specified Florida state Constitution date. And an all-out and full recount was done (after the fact) by a consortium of major news organizations and it ultimately showed that Bush STILL won. IN FACT, the real joke for anyone that says Gore got cheated in a recount is that had a full statewide recount taken place USING the very terms that Gore and his team was insisting on, Bush's margin of victory would have actually TRIPLED.
you're not as fun when I'm sobered up...MORE SCOTCH!!! by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 06:47:39 PM
dude, seriously, you need to lighten up. All your whinings about republicans banning you is just showing how utterly devoid you are of piecing together a coherant thought. You've regressed even further behind now then when you started today, man. When's it going to give. If you indeed are a sour little pre-teen jerk (my suspicions), then yo're going to grow up into a no-good deadbeat without any talent to make a living for the girl you'll knockup in college (by date-rape nonetheless). If you already are a middle aged adult (which we all SERIOUSLY doubt), well, then, it's even more sad, because you'll be taking this hate and anger to your grave (which is just around the corner). You'll be met with all the hate you've given out to everyone at the precise moment that you need love the most. And that, will be a most depressing moment in human history. Do the human race a favor and either grow up or get off of this earth (or at least, try something creative like fly to the middle east and carry a picket sign around your neck that says "kill me").
DARTH! You insist on this insipid method of identifying your ow by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 06:48:07 PM
Bada Bing!
Board Upholds R Rating for 'Fahrenheit' by Moore_and_Harry	Jun 22nd, 2004 06:49:49 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmp l=story&cid=493&u=/ap/20040622 /ap_en_mo/film_fahrenheit_9_11 _rating_1&printer=1
my name is DeadDarthReagan and... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 06:52:38 PM
...I hate the world...wahhhhhh!!! I cry like a baby...wahhhhhhhhh!!! I'll insult anyone who tells me anything against me...wahhhhahhhh! Even if I can't even shut my big mouth long enough to hear that they may even agree with me...waaaaahhhhhhh!!! I pooped my pants.... wwwwaaaaaaahhhhhhh!!!! My mom gave me up for adoption and I watched my father beat her so now I'm all messed up in the head... wahhhhhhh!!! I can't articulate....waaaahhhhh!!! Where's my bottle!!??!?!
Now commence with the leftist wailing and moaning and gnashing o by BRING IT ON!	Jun 22nd, 2004 06:52:48 PM
Bada Bing!
and I don't even know why I'm mad....waaaahhhhhhh!!! by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 06:57:08 PM

Beaks... can you write your next review in Human by Fearsme	Jun 22nd, 2004 07:04:27 PM
Instead of the robot thesaurus youve become
http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/ by Dagan	Jun 22nd, 2004 07:21:46 PM
http://slate.msn.com/id/210272 3/ Great review from another Leftist journalist.
OMG Save 89% off Retail when you buy Harry Knowels literary outi by Moore_and_Harry	Jun 22nd, 2004 07:27:22 PM
Oh my.....
I've been reading all the past posts and this is by far the most by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 07:43:40 PM
...I mean this guy MAKES NO SENSE...yeah, DARTH, I'm talking about you...back when I was sporting a real good buzz, I made 10x more sense than you did at your most articulate (that's a relative word when dealing with you).
and now, the severe beating of an internet user named DeadReagan by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 07:44:18 PM
"ow...ew!! ugh!!! stop!!! uncle!!! ok ok, I'll be your bitch!!!"...ok, I know that was a repeat, but I just wanted to say that because I know that's what everyone's thinking...
and so, we now commit DeadDarthReagan to the ground... by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 07:45:42 PM
...ashes to ashes, and dust to dust...
Moore is a liar by tnizzle	Jun 22nd, 2004 07:54:06 PM
Flat out. There is false information in at least one major point he tries to get across in his slanderous VIDEO. And this is the only clip I've seen. You liberals are all a bunch of mindless sheep. If you hate what this country has done, then move to Canada.
Bush is a piece of shit, granted, but DARTHDEADREAGAN you are ma by ComicBookGeek77	Jun 22nd, 2004 07:57:34 PM
Yes, Bush is a war-monger and he will LOSE the next election. Moore's movie is just icing on the cake. Personally I will see it cause I've heard SO MUCH right wing BULLSHIT I'd like a sliver of the opposition. As to Fahrenheit 9/11 being valid, I don't know. I don't follow politics and I'm not a conspiracist.I DO know I will not be voting for Bush. Republicans ALL suck ass, except for Arnold.
is DARTH gone? Awwwwww...man, he'll be missed!!! by nuprin	Jun 22nd, 2004 08:19:59 PM
Now all the adults and intelligent people (on both sides) can continue!!!
Forget Fecalheit, - JOE SCHMO 2 is ON by Moore_and_Harry	Jun 22nd, 2004 10:51:03 PM
Oh my.....
"or outing an undercover CIA operative as revenge".. Beaks, whe by Darth_Inedible	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:47:11 PM

Who cares by sumbich73	Jun 22nd, 2004 11:56:53 PM
Talk-backers are almost as bad as the losers who review the movies on this site... Always got something to say, don't hardly get laid, and are very pasty.
Jesus Christ by Torgol	Jun 23rd, 2004 12:09:46 AM
Did someone actually type that Bush was an American Hero? Yes, when i think of american heros i think of spoiled rich boys that are having "youthfull indescretians" until the age of 40. He has never had a real job in his life, his resume is oil executive, Texas Ranger owner, governor, and then president. Did you notice a skip there? He got a job as an executive at the top of a major company as his first job. But I'm sure he earned that completely, I mean no one would ever get a job just based on their family's power. I do believe sir Donald King once said ONLY IN AMERICA!!
To Fluffy Unbound by Torgol	Jun 23rd, 2004 12:21:39 AM
But in Bowling he shows that in Canada the gun locks are everywhere, jesus man watch the movie before you critise the man that made it. Are you seriously saying that talking about the troubeling issues of American gun fatalities is causing more gun violence. Maybe I'm crazy and your perfectly sane but I just don't understand your arguement at all. Just like I don't understand what is so wrong is having a policy that not just anyone can buy a weapon that is made to kill, and what is wrong with putting locks on guns. I'm getting so angry I'm getting unintelligible but oh well i'm probably just crazy.
Damn! by Neosamurai85	Jun 23rd, 2004 12:24:36 AM
I write about a page and a half post and not a trace of it! Thank you for posting my ASS! Peace.
Michael Moore Sucks by Atomica	Jun 23rd, 2004 12:30:47 AM
I think he sucks. His lame attempts at movie-making annoy me. I hope his obese ass chokes on the next fat-laced meal he chows down. He should stop bitching about how bad everything is and eat a few less meals so the kids in 3rd world countries won't freaking starve. If the fatass wants to change the world, send some of his royalty checks to a Charity. Damn i can't stand this loser.
So Subversive01057 says "good riddance to the NeoCon garbage who by Big Dumb Ape	Jun 23rd, 2004 12:34:29 AM
What a closed minded, egotistical idiot to think only the Left knows right and wrong, and knows what's "best" for all of us. And that anyone with a Right wing leaning should leave the site as if unwelcomed. So much for Liberal democracy where ONLY Liberals are welcome. Wow, what a bunch of fucking hypocrites who say they're all for embracing free thought -- so long as its in line with the DNC. Sorry, I don't feel like living in a tyranny and a 2 party system allows us all to vote our choice. So stick it in your ear -- we neocons are staying put on this site to bitchslap you libs into facing reality and the REAL troubles facing the world and the REAL solutions that are needed to solve them. In the meantime, here's hoping your parents were smart enough to know they should stop breeding once a complete loser like you came out your mom's shute.
Atomica by Torgol	Jun 23rd, 2004 12:35:58 AM
Is this the arguement now that serious problems in the culture and politics in America are completely invalid beccause the guy that is talking is well, mobidly obese. To quote one of The Tick's villians (shit what was that socks name?) READ A BOOK!
While I'm at it by Torgol	Jun 23rd, 2004 12:42:27 AM
Damn I'm really fired up tonight but well I love these political talkbacks. But when Clinton dies if the same people screaming "if anyone says anything about Reagan our unAmerican" start saying good ridance I am going to kill someone. I was never Clinton's biggest fan (NAFTA anyone?) but when he dies he better get the same respect Reagan did.
Talkback System by John Anderton	Jun 23rd, 2004 01:05:02 AM
Kinda off-topic, but why don't you use a standard phpBB FUCKING DISCUSSION FORUM template?!?!? Jesus H. Christ! Whoever wrote the (vintage 1996) code for this "talkback" forum should be forced to have his eyelids permanently removed.
DAMN! part duh by Neosamurai85	Jun 23rd, 2004 01:10:33 AM
This board sure has turned into quite the War and Peace (no pun intended) epic! Now, why do I have the sudden urge to go watch Kerstin Dunce in a bad cheerleading flick? Peace.
Hey, Madonna loves it.... by Sicuv Uyall	Jun 23rd, 2004 01:20:41 AM
so why shouldn't we? Wonder if Britney Spears saw it yet? Isn't it weird that Super Size Me and Michael Moore's movie comes out around the same time. Makes you wonder....
Stoopid, Saddam butchered and killed HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PE by Triumph poops!	Jun 23rd, 2004 04:39:11 AM
Hope they got some information out of him, I'm sure he's got plenty of secrets tucked away that US and British intelligence and the rest of the world willing to fight terrorism could use. So if they roughed him up, awwww...too bad for the little boy. After all, he's only personally responsible for the deaths of nearly 3/4 of MILLION people. Then again, soon the bastard's going back to Iraq where hopefully they'll have the first state sponsored and viewable execution so the world can truly see an evil Hitler level fuck like him die. This is man who deserves NO mercy AT ALL. Hope he brings plenty of marshmallows for his eternity spent burning in Hell.
BUSH LOSING IN THE POLLS by bushsux	Jun 23rd, 2004 06:53:31 AM
EAT THIS SHIT CONSERVATIVE COCKSUCKERS: Public anxiety over mounting casualties in Iraq and doubts about long-term consequences of the war continue to rise and have helped to erase President Bush's once-formidable advantage over Sen. John F. Kerry concerning who is best able to deal with terrorist threats, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll. Exactly half the country now approves of the way Bush is managing the U.S. war on terrorism, down 13 percentage points since April, according to the poll. Barely two months ago, Bush comfortably led Kerry, the presumptive Democratic nominee, by 21 points when voters were asked which man they trusted to deal with the terrorist threat. Today the country is evenly divided, with 48 percent preferring Kerry and 47 percent favoring Bush. With fewer than 10 days before the United States turns over governing power to Iraq, the survey shows that Americans are coming to a mixed judgment about the costs and benefits of the war. Campaign advisers to both Bush and Kerry believe voters' conclusions about Bush and Iraq will play a decisive role in determining the outcome of the November election. The shift is potentially significant because Bush has consistently received higher marks on fighting terrorism than on Iraq, and if the decline signals a permanent loss of confidence in his handling of the fight against terrorism, that could undermine a central part of his reelection campaign message. Overall the poll had mixed news for both candidates. Bush's marks for handling the economy and Iraq both rose slightly over the past month, but his overall approval rating remains below 50 percent. Kerry leads Bush in a three-way test that includes independent Ralph Nader and is seen as more honest and trustworthy than the president, but those surveyed question whether he has a plan for Iraq. Fewer than half of those surveyed -- 47 percent -- say the war in Iraq was worth fighting, while 52 percent say it was not, the highest level of disapproval recorded in Post-ABC News polls. Seven in 10 Americans now say there has been an "unacceptable" level of casualties in Iraq, up 6 points from April and also a new high in Post-ABC News polling. A majority say the United States should keep its forces in Iraq until the country is stabilized, but the proportion who want to withdraw now to avoid further casualties -- 42 percent -- has inched up again to a new high. Two in three Americans say the war has improved the lives of the Iraqi people, and a growing number of Americans say the United States is making significant progress toward a democratic government. Last month, 37 percent said they saw significant progress, while 50 percent say so now. The public is sharply divided over whether the war contributed to the long-term security of the United States, with 51 percent saying it has, a new low in Post-ABC polls. Three in four say the conflict has damaged the image of the United States throughout the world, and a majority believe the war has not improved prospects for long-term peace and stability in the Middle East. Virtually all of the recent movement against the war has occurred among political independents. Among those with no firm party ties, the proportion who said the war was "not worth fighting" increased from 48 percent in May to 59 percent in the latest poll. Bush's approval rating on his handling of Iraq remains negative but rose slightly in the past month to 44 percent, with 55 percent saying they disapprove. On the key domestic issue of the economy, 46 percent give Bush positive marks, up 7 points since March and his best showing since January. The survey also found that nearly half the country rates the health of the economy as "excellent" or "good," up 6 points from March and the highest since July 2001, following a succession of positive economic statistics. But improved marks on Iraq and the economy did not translate into a rise in Bush's overall approval rating, nor did they improve his standing against Kerry in a hypothetical November matchup. Bush's overall job approval rating held steady at 47 percent, at its lowest point in Post-ABC News polls, while his disapproval rating reached a new high of 51 percent. That leaves Bush in a shaky position politically, based on the rankings of other recent presidents seeking reelection. In a November ballot test, Kerry leads Bush 48 percent to 44 percent among registered voters, with 6 percent supporting Nader. Last month, Kerry and Bush were tied. With Nader out of the race, Kerry's advantage swells to 8 points, evidence of the continuing threat that Nader's candidacy poses to the Democrat. Interest in the campaign remains high while the proportion of persuadable voters is low. Voters are paying attention to this race earlier than they did four years ago when Bush ran against Al Gore. Eight in 10 registered voters said they are following the campaign -- slightly higher than the proportion that was paying similar attention to the 2000 campaign three weeks before the election. One in 10 voters said there was a "good chance" they could change their minds between now and November. The survey found that Kerry's advantages over Bush extended to a range of issues. When asked which they trusted to do the better job, Kerry held a double-digit advantage over Bush as the candidate the public preferred to deal with health care (21 points), taxes (13 points), prescription drug benefits for the elderly (12 points) and education (10 points), and smaller leads on handling international affairs (8 points), the economy (5 points) and the federal budget deficit (4 points). In only one area -- Iraq -- was Bush more trusted, 50 percent to 45 percent. The president is viewed as a stronger leader than Kerry and as the candidate who can be most trusted in a crisis. He is also seen as best able to "make the country safer and more secure" and the one who "takes a position and sticks with it." But by 52 percent to 39 percent, Kerry is seen as more honest and trustworthy -- a troubling finding for Bush, whose truthfulness before the war in Iraq has been called into question. The survey also found that eight in 10 Americans support the transfer of power from the U.S.-led coalition to an interim Iraqi government on June 30. Nearly half -- 48 percent -- said it should be Iraqis who have the final say over the presence of U.S. troops in Iraq, while just as many say it should be the Americans. Big majorities said the new Iraqi government and not the United States also should control Iraq's oil industry and handle the distribution of aid from other nations. A total of 1,201 randomly selected adults, including 1,015 self-described registered voters, were interviewed June 17 to 20 for this telephone survey. The margin of sampling error for the overall results is plus or minus 3 percentage points.
The Right's Answer to Michael Moore by bushsux	Jun 23rd, 2004 07:01:29 AM
Ahh, Bill O'Reilly. Nevermind the fact that he used to host Inside Edition, tv's answer to the Enquirer and Weekly World News, he's a great American according to these conservatives. Such a great American, that he publicly on his radio show advocated the extermination of all Muslims. O'REILLY: "Because look ... when 2 percent of the population feels that you're doing them a favor, just forget it, you're not going to win. You're not going to win. And I don't have any respect by and large for the Iraqi people at all. I have no respect for them. I think that they're a prehistoric group that is -- yeah, there's excuses. Sure, they're terrorized, they've never known freedom, all of that. There's excuses. I understand. But I don't have to respect them because you know when you have Americans dying trying to you know institute some kind of democracy there, and 2 percent of the people appreciate it, you know, it's time to -- time to wise up. And this teaches us a big lesson, that we cannot intervene in the Muslim world ever again. What we can do is bomb the living daylights out of them, just like we did in the Balkans. Just as we did in the Balkans. Bomb the living daylights out of them. But no more ground troops, no more hearts and minds, ain't going to work." Is this the answer? Bomb all muslims? I never respected Bill O'Reilly but now I've lost any trace of civility that I had to him. Who's next Republicans? Blacks, Jews, Catholics?
Bushsux, you fucking moron, read the article through... by Triumph poops!	Jun 23rd, 2004 07:04:34 AM
First off, it's from the friggin' Washington Post that is about as anti-Bush as the New York Times of late, trying to use any press coverage they can to generate heat for Kerry heading into the conventions. And secondly, if you'll notice, the article ALSO says "On the key domestic issue of the economy, 46 percent give Bush positive marks, UP 7 points since March and his best showing since January. The survey also found that nearly half the country rates the health of the economy as "excellent" or "good," UP 6 points from March and the highest since July 2001, following a succession of positive economic statistics." The bottom line is that come November, people will be voting the one thing they ALWAYS vote -- their wallets. Period. And by then things will be humming along and while this will most likely be a tight race, Bush will still edge a win. What complete mental midgets like you should be asking yourself is how truly fucking lame it is that even AFTER all the things that have gone wrong for Bush or that you've tried to nail him for (9/11, a recession that is now acknowledged to have begun under CLINTON, the war in Iraq and on terrorism, the ridiculous slanted and biased press coverage from FAHRENHEIT) the best a fucking loser candidate like Kerry can manage is still only a statistical dead heat tie. THAT'S pathetic. Bush is going to win, and I'll be happy to be here on election night to read you in the talkbacks as you take it up the ass for being such a complete whiny little bitch...
Next group on the GOP hitlist by bushsux	Jun 23rd, 2004 07:09:20 AM
Gays. Did you conservatives know that, as a result of your party's stonewalling on the gays in the military issue, over 10,000 gays have been kicked out of the military since the institution of "Don't ask, don't tell" in 1993? That's 10,000. Not 1,000 or 2,000. 10,000 people who volunteered to defend this country. Fuck the conservatives.
Bushsux: Master of hyperbole and Moore-like propaganda by Commando Cody	Jun 23rd, 2004 07:18:03 AM
Uh...earth to moron. I saw the edition of Bill O'Reilly where he gave that excerpted bit. And 2 things, you clueless dolt. Number one, NOWHERE in that excerpt does O'Reilly call for the "annihilation of ALL muslims" as you claim. But nice of you to spin it that way. Then again, every time you post one of your delusional rants you're always talking out of your ass, so what's new there? Secondly, his point is dead on. O'Reilly's simply saying that if you're going to be engaged in a war with a Muslim/Al Qaeda ground force -- which by nature is willing to kill anyone and everyone to advance their cause or use things like sacred mosques or civilian homes or children's schools as hideouts to prevent reprisal attacks -- you're going to be sticking American forces into a groundfight quagmire that will hamper our boys. So he's right...given those conditions, you go a safer route, choose to save the lives of your own forces, go to the air, and bomb the fuckers to Hell rather than putting your troops into that quaqmire. That's simply sound military thinking. But then again, given that you were born with an empty skull cavity, all of that will be far beyond you. Now go back to your coloring book and try to stay IN the lines this time...and leave politics and world affairs to us adults.
Sounds Like Triumph Poops Needs a Lesson in Current Events by 002	Jun 23rd, 2004 07:23:46 AM
So people vote with their wallets? If that's the case, it's going to be bad news for George W. this November, as it also was with his dad in '92. Check this out: "According to the Bush administration, the huge tax cuts of the past few years - which the White House is now seeking to make permanent - will ultimately pay for themselves. The idea is that they will stimulate the economy, in turn raising tax revenues from other sources to pay off the country's ballooning federal deficits. However, a report issued this week by an influential Washington-based bipartisan group disagrees. The Centre on Budget and Policy Priorities suggests that not only will someone have to ultimately pay for the tax cuts, but that the lower income sectors of society will bear the burden. When Congress enacted the tax cuts, it decided to finance them through higher budget deficits, pushing the cost into future years. "That makes the tax cuts look free - but, of course, they are no more free than any other item bought on credit," Isaac Shapiro, a co-author of the report and a senior fellow at the centre, says. The report said that, through spending cuts and tax increases down the line, the result would be a transfer of up to $113bn (
I just Caught Commando Cody in a Lie about Bill O'Reilly by bushsux	Jun 23rd, 2004 07:44:31 AM
First off my little boy Cody, you couldn't have "seen" that excerpt because it was on Radio Factor. I have the transcript, you fucking liar. He didn't say that on his tv show. You didn't see or hear it, therefore, you can't know the context he was saying it in. Second, this wasn't the first time O'Reiily has espoused inhumane tactics. After the four American contractors were killed, O' Reilly said "
Gee, I just caught Bushsux in a lie. Cody was RIGHT, you loser.. by Big Dumb Ape	Jun 23rd, 2004 08:22:22 AM
Bushsux, it must really suck to be the walking abortion that you clearly are. You wrote (and I quote): "First off my little boy Cody, you couldn't have "seen" that excerpt because it was on Radio Factor. I have the transcript, you fucking liar. He didn't say that on his tv show. You didn't see or hear it, therefore, you can't know the context he was saying it in." Sorry, fuckwad, but anyone who routinely watches or listens to O'Reilly or checks out his web site can instantly tell you that O'Reilly regularly circulates his various editorial op-ed pieces and tireades amongst ALL his outlets. Meaning a prolonged "op-ed speech" that he gives on his radio show is sure to turn up as his lead-in opening on THE FACTOR the next day (or they might be reversed), not to mention it's then often posted in prose form on his website if it's a particular editorial tirade he's fond of pushing at the moment. Basically, he saturates his various speeches and op ed bits all over. Cody was RIGHT -- O'Reilly DIUD give that very same tirade about not trusting the Iraqis and how we should just resort to bombs in the future on THE FACTOR as his opening monoloque the other week, because I saw it TOO. OHHH! What's that sound I hear? The sound of Bushsux sucking ass yet again. Why the fuck don't you just realize you have no idea what you're blathering on about and get lost? No one here gives a shit what you think anyway...
Thanks, Ape -- you beat me to the punch about Bushsux. Notice he by Commando Cody	Jun 23rd, 2004 08:43:39 AM
You're right, Ape -- O'Reilly DOES circulate his editorial pieces about his media empire and I did see his "bombing" stance monoloque on The Factor. But, of course, Bushsux is so anxious to type at his keyboard and post yet another rant while he foams rabidly at the mouth that a little thing like "facts" elude him. But better yet, notice how he ALSO didn't answer my question? Notice that patented Michael Moore-like dodge when you challenge him on the facts and he tries to change the subject? Notice how NOWHERE in the selection of O'Reilly prose that he posted does it say "I think we should kill ALL muslims"? You know why Bushsux CAN'T produce ANYTHING resembling that statement? Yes, we all do -- because O'Reilly NEVER SAID ANY SUCH THING. But losers like Bushsux will always take the Michael Moore route of just making shit up to generate the point they want, hoping that someone whose even stupider than them will buy it. Though it's hard to believe there's a larger fuckup on the planet than Bushsux. God forbid morons like this actually have FACTS to back them up. Oh, and by the way, Bushsux, even the selection you posted AGAIN doesn't support you. O'Reilly has long called for bombs to save ground forces -- he's also long called for "no safe zones" meaning that in a time of war, wherever a firefight breaks out is completely fair game. In other words, like myself and others, he doesn't believe if Al Qaeda fighters take refuge in a mosque (from which they then open fire on American troops) should be immune to RETURN FIRE simply because we don't want to upset the Muslim world by storming the mosque or destroying it. Which IS total bullshit. Level the fucking mosque and kill the fucking terrorists hold up in it. THEY made it a battle site, THEY pay the price. THAT'S what O'Reilly meant when he talked about bombing the city. But for the record, he's also ALWAYS added "But our guys won't do that because we value life and DON'T want to kill an entire city." But nice of you to ONLY extract the OPENING part of the point he was saying. Bushsux, Ape was right -- you ARE walking abortion. Does your mother know you survived and are out in public making such a total ass of yourself?
Thanks, Ape -- you beat me to the punch about Bushsux. Notice he by Commando Cody	Jun 23rd, 2004 08:43:49 AM
You're right, Ape -- O'Reilly DOES circulate his editorial pieces about his media empire and I did see his "bombing" stance monoloque on The Factor. But, of course, Bushsux is so anxious to type at his keyboard and post yet another rant while he foams rabidly at the mouth that a little thing like "facts" elude him. But better yet, notice how he ALSO didn't answer my question? Notice that patented Michael Moore-like dodge when you challenge him on the facts and he tries to change the subject? Notice how NOWHERE in the selection of O'Reilly prose that he posted does it say "I think we should kill ALL muslims"? You know why Bushsux CAN'T produce ANYTHING resembling that statement? Yes, we all do -- because O'Reilly NEVER SAID ANY SUCH THING. But losers like Bushsux will always take the Michael Moore route of just making shit up to generate the point they want, hoping that someone whose even stupider than them will buy it. Though it's hard to believe there's a larger fuckup on the planet than Bushsux. God forbid morons like this actually have FACTS to back them up. Oh, and by the way, Bushsux, even the selection you posted AGAIN doesn't support you. O'Reilly has long called for bombs to save ground forces -- he's also long called for "no safe zones" meaning that in a time of war, wherever a firefight breaks out is completely fair game. In other words, like myself and others, he doesn't believe if Al Qaeda fighters take refuge in a mosque (from which they then open fire on American troops) should be immune to RETURN FIRE simply because we don't want to upset the Muslim world by storming the mosque or destroying it. Which IS total bullshit. Level the fucking mosque and kill the fucking terrorists hold up in it. THEY made it a battle site, THEY pay the price. THAT'S what O'Reilly meant when he talked about bombing the city. But for the record, he's also ALWAYS added "But our guys won't do that because we value life and DON'T want to kill an entire city." But nice of you to ONLY extract the OPENING part of the point he was saying. Bushsux, Ape was right -- you ARE walking abortion. Does your mother know you survived and are out in public making such a total ass of yourself?
by El Aurence	Jun 23rd, 2004 08:45:06 AM
Bush didn't win the election. He lost. By half a million votes. Reagan was not a great president. He financed and armed both Saddam and Bin Laden and now America and the rest of the world is paying for his simple minded "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" policy.
Why don't all you cunts just accept that bush is a cunt and no b by TheGinger Twit	Jun 23rd, 2004 09:09:46 AM
Get a president who actually has some use.
Hey, Darth DeadReagan is back. Professional Moore ass kisser, po by Triumph poops!	Jun 23rd, 2004 11:40:49 AM
Apparently once again Darth has NOTHING intellectual or of value to add other than to shoot off his mouth that all Republicans are bad. Of course, Darth personifies why the Left are such fucking hypocritical assholes -- they SAY they're for freedom and free speech, they use it as a rallying point against the right, but in truth Liberals ONLY want an ANIMAL FARM country where all will be equal, but some will be more equal than others...namely THEM and only THEIR political viewpoints will be allowed. All others need not speak up. So shut up and let the grand Liberal "economic redistribution plans" take effect so we can have grand Liberal "social engineering schemes" set in motion -- all doomed to fail, as ALL Liberal agendas do. Which is why in November when Bush WINS it will be great to see Darth Deadreagan realize the reality that he's a cocksucking loser for life and if we're all really, really lucky he'll crawl back under the piece of shit he emerged from to begin with. Darth DeadReagan is someone...FOR ME TO POOP ON!
Actually, GingerTwit we LIKE Bush. We just accepted that you wer by Triumph poops!	Jun 23rd, 2004 11:57:38 AM
But it's ok, Twit, maybe one day you'll be less of a waste of space, manage to grow some gray matter in your skull, and you'll be the one to become useful somehow. And maybe one day countries like France and Germany that are morally bankrupt and too fucking chickenshit and cowardly to stand up and fight terrorism will actually grow spines as opposed to standing in Bush's way. But that's doubtful since they clearly prefer surrendering instantly to radicals like Al Qaeda rather than risk the slightest bit of action. What's the word to describe European? Oh yeah, pussies. You were right -- they ARE cunts. Bush in November. No question. He's an amazingly great President. Can't wait to see him up there giving his victory speech and hearing you squirming assholes have to deal with it. Should make for 4 more years of thrilling talkbacks watching you all cry and shit in your pants like the babies you are.
"Do you realize how lame it is to steal your name from a dog pup by Triumph poops!	Jun 23rd, 2004 12:07:56 PM
...You mean compared to the lame ass creativity of picking a name like yours that was created for no other reason than to show you're a classless prick out to piss people off? Because God forbid you should actually show you can debate a topic with facts rather than spewing your usual venom and hate. But I guess hate is all you have left in life being an impotent asshole that women can't even stand to be near. Guess it really sucked being dropped on your head and being molested as a child which explains how you ended up being the drooling simpleton you are today...
Anyone who calls Bush a liar is an idiot. by Blok Narpin	Jun 23rd, 2004 12:21:47 PM
Like Bush --- fine. Dislike him--- fine. One thing you can't do, however, is call him a liar. He's lied about nothing.
Reply to Judas Priest by godric	Jun 23rd, 2004 12:45:18 PM
I'm not saying there's never a time to oppose a leader when you disagree with him, it's just that over the last 20 years, "disagreement" has turned into yelling and complaining about what you don't like. You don't like what Bush has done; a lot of people don't. But he is the President and the title does deserve respect. A lot of people DO like what he's done. Here's the kind of things I'm talking about: after Bush was elected, many Democrats were mad and most of the court appointments that he has every right as President to make have been fought and blocked--he still doesn't have some of them finished--when he was picking quality people for the posts. But they were fighting him out of spite (and probably some over the abortion issue). But your side can't always win. I did not like a lot of things that Clinton did; I thought some of his actions made a mockery of the office, and was repulsed by the sexual scandal, but I didn't call for his impeachment, I didn't complain, I didn't try to convince people to block his every move. I'm just afraid that the attitude in both sides in this country is getting to the place that no matter what a President tries to do, he will be rendered impotent by fighting from the other side.
the bin Laden family by lynxpro	Jun 23rd, 2004 01:43:57 PM
This really bugs me. Osama bin Laden has something like 55 half-siblings since his father had 6 or some odd wives and was a prolific man, not only in his business enterprises. Just because the government moved them out of the country does not mean the Bush Administration is in cahoots with bin Laden in some 1984-esque conspiracy. (although I must say, 9/11 did happen far too soon after the publishing of the expose of "Operation Northwinds" for my comfort). A lot of that family was in America studying at the top universities. I suspect Moore "wishes" that the Administration would've interrogated that family like all the other "terrorists" inprisoned at Camp X-Ray, but then again, if the Administration would've done that, Moore & Co. would be yelling up and down over their mistreatment and labeling them terrorists due to guilt by association. I mean jeez, nobody in American history talks about the fact that George Washington was related to the deposed Stuart Royal Family and thus that angle is never explored about his motivations for American Independence. Ben Franklin knew the King and was welcome in the Court and even had his own son made the Royal Governor of New Jersey prior to the Revolution. The rich tend to know other rich. Moore is grasping at straws. Its too bad since Roger & Me and even The Big One were pretty good little flicks. And this story here on AICN should be labelled "Ray Bradbury vs. Farenheit 9/11". If anyone thinks the relationship between Bradbury and Moore is a lovefest, you should check out Bradbury's quote from this week's edition of PopBitch.
Ex-cronies by SPY-der	Jun 23rd, 2004 02:36:03 PM
Beaks' assertion that the contract to Halliburton was merely in the service of rewarding ex-cronies is a tad one-sided. Halliburton is one of the world's largest companies that provides services to the oil industry. The US went into a country dependent on oil-revenue for it's survival, fully expecting Saddam to torch the Iraqi oil fields just the same as he did the Kuwaiti fields in the first Gulf War. There were/are all kinds of logisitic and technical issues when dealing with the oil industry, especially one under persistent terrorist atacks. If you're going into a situation like that wouldn't you want to have one of the biggest and best companies that do that kind of work for you? VP Cheney had divested himself before taking office. Halliburton was probably one of the best choices for the job. Sure, Bush and Cheney know the company, which means they know what it can and can't do. That doesn't automatically equate to cronie-ism. If Gore were in office and facing the same situation he'd have used them, too. (not that Gore would have the balls to actually go into Iraq.) As for the "sloppily planned" invasion let's just take a moment to remember that the entire campaign had us in Baghdad in three weeks. Swiftest military campaign in the history of warfare. Doesn't sound too sloppy to me. War is a messy business, and so is insurrection; don't confuse that mess with sloppy planning. -- SPYder, out.
shut up about the 2000 Election by lynxpro	Jun 23rd, 2004 05:55:43 PM
Bush didn't steal the 2000 election. The flawed Florida ballots were designed by a Democrat (and woman). The U.S. Supreme Court stepped in because there was no real standard to how the people were grading the review process in terms of "hanging chads" and what not, and the Flordia Supreme Court was heavily Democratic leaning. Go back and watch the televised process; it was ridiculous. People are still complaining that felons and blacks were turned away from the polls by a Republican conspiracy yet they fail to mention how Democrats were bussing homeless people to the polls by promising them cigarettes. Stop blaming Bush and start venting your hostility at the Democrats and make them reform so they just aren't the "kinder, gentler" version of the Republican Party. They had control of Congress for 50 years (during which Reps and Dem Presidents served) and did nothing about the Electorial College. Senator Rodham Clinton paid lip service to a constitutional amendment abolishing the College right after the election, but of course, nothing happened. The last serious attempt to abolish the College was in 1977 (or was it 76? Kinda like Metric System adoption here). The Dems controlled Congress until 1994. So Bush didn't get "elected" under your definition of an election. Well, neither did Kennedy. Kennedy outright stole the 1960 election thanks to rigged ballot machines around Chicago. But Nixon, unlike Gore in 2000, decided not to contest the election due to the damage he perceived it would inflict upon the country (that and there were too many Democrats in the House of Representatives who would've voted for Kennedy anyway had it gone to the House to resolve) - yet Gore did not consider this; too much hubris. Now before you all label me a Republican apologist, I'd like to state I would love to see Senator Hatch and Senator Santorum thrown out of the Senate. Of course, in turn, I'd love to see perennial career Democratic politicians like Senator Fritz and Senator "King of Pork" Byrd thrown out too. As for the rest of the world complaining about not having a say about the U.S. President, I say "suck it." Europe has no excuse; they squandered their power in World War I and II. Their failure to be an effective player on the world stage today is the result of France and Germany both trying to control the will of the entire European Union and trying to make it a bastion of socialism and statist capitalism, refusing to reform the CAP because some hick French farmer demolished a McDonalds franchise with his tractor, and the deliberate isolation of Britain thanks to their (France and Germany) previously mentioned foreign and domestic policies. As for the third world, well, perhaps they should've thought about the mess they've gotten into before throwing their support being their local despots challenging imperial rule post WWII. Or prior to the modern era, maybe like inventing the wheel, the plow, a writing system, art, science, modern medicine, monotheism, and air conditioning.
Top Ten Bush Lies by bushsux	Jun 23rd, 2004 05:58:40 PM
Here is a short list of lies Bush has been caught in. Anyone who says Bush has never lied is not only an idiot, but ignorant as well. #1 Bush never showed up in Alabama Air National Guard when directly ordered to do so, after requesting a transfer to work in Alabama.
And Those Tax Cuts for the Rich by bushsux	Jun 23rd, 2004 06:02:28 PM
Conservatives don't like to talk about the economy. Why? Because it embarasses them, worse than Iraq does. A new study released today by Citizens for Tax Justice and the Children
As for my two republican bitches by bushsux	Jun 23rd, 2004 06:18:46 PM
If you need evidence that Bill O'Reilly is a shitbag, here you go. If it
ZombieProblems by lynxpro	Jun 23rd, 2004 06:47:20 PM
You said something to the effect of "at least he didn't start an unjustified war" in comparing Clinton to Bush. Hmmm. What was it, 1999 that NATO, ahem, the U.S., bombed Serbia? Did you forget that? That action did not have UN approval either, because Russia wouldn't sign off on it. So why aren't you complaining about our nation bombing Serbia which caused the instability that later toppled Mad Milosovic (sic)? I'm sure you'd be complaining if it was Bush that did such an action and not the Clinton. And why is it that people are blaming Reagan and Bush for supposedly contributing money to Bin Laden and Saddam in the 80s? Reagan was focused on bringing down the communist Soviet Union. Remember them? Nope. Because that totalitarian regime no longer exists because they couldn't outspend Reagan on the military build-up. Reagan's Administration financed anti-Soviet factions in Afghanistan which bled the Russians (yet they haven't done much harm to us in comparison) into abandoning their little invasion/occupation of Afghanistan. Yes, some of these fighters did become the Taliban and allies to Mr. Bin Laden, but under the situation, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. So sorry. And if you want to get technical, the US aided Ho Chi Minh back in WWII to fight the Japanese when the movement was known as Viet Minh and not the Viet Cong. By breaking the Soviet Union, we now have a "free" Eastern Europe which is now part of the "common European home" as of last month (when many of these former peoples joined the European Union). But then again, I'm sure most of these anti-Reagan posters are members of Gen-Y who don't remember growing up during the Second Cold War and cannot remember what a triumph it was to see the Berlin Wall broken apart.
MinastirithII... by tango fett	Jun 23rd, 2004 06:48:09 PM
You're an ass-nazi. So's Michael Moore. Zing! Cheerio
Holy vagina hating ferrets by the water coolers trading recipes by Neosamurai85	Jun 23rd, 2004 07:07:10 PM

Replace the words "George Bush" with "Stinking Jew" and Moore's by Moore_and_Harry	Jun 23rd, 2004 07:07:35 PM
Dang Jews are the cause of all discount shopping.....
NEW BOOK Exposing Moore hits stands: Michael Moore Is a Big Fat by Moore_and_Harry	Jun 23rd, 2004 07:08:32 PM
Meet the Flint-drone: Everybody knows Moore is a blue-collar guy from Flint, Mich., right? That's how he always sells himself. In reality, he was born and raised in the wealthy, lily-white town of Davison, Mich, the authors reveal. No wonder the clown prince of self-loathing developed such a complex about hating rich, stupid white males. -------------- http://www.newsmax.com/archive s/articles/2004/6/23/165945.sh tml
Imbletards of the World Unite!! by TheRedMonkey	Jun 23rd, 2004 07:25:32 PM
You imbletards are all the same. You all want to preach how bad Bush is and how bad the war in Iraq is with no substantial analysis to back it up. Just your uninformed and undereducated opinions, but then opinions are like a-holes. Stick to telling us how great you thought Hellboy was and leave the real thinking alone for the safety of everyone. And on that note, remember that Michael Moore directed Canadian Bacon, how can you take his opinions seriously. He is obviously a tool of the Canadian government to pull the United States into a new civil war in which they will invade and make us all speak french and dress like mimes. Michael Moore is an Imbletard.
(R) are Nazis? Believe that and I can..... by TheRedMonkey	Jun 23rd, 2004 07:42:40 PM
tell you how to take the money from the rich and give it all to the poor so everyone is on an even playing field and we won't punish children because saying no is bad and everything is happy and positive..... Smells like communism to me you silly liberals. Hippies Smell, smoking weed has been known to make you think like a liberal. Work hard and earn some real money and see how much you like 20-33% of it going to support those who choose not to and to support a failed liberal education structure. When was the last time you went to a violent conservative gathering? If democrats are all so peace loving then why did they all write a blank check for this war? Ba Ba little sheep and do as your master says. THis war is took an evil man out of power and now a propaganda film (hey did you notice that if you took Bush out and replaced it with Jew how Nazi it looks?) wants to distort and misrepresent everything that is occuring. Just as the media declaring that there is no connection to Iraq in regards to 9/11 and the bush administration still claims there is one. The fact is that there is an Al Quaida connection, not necessarily to 9/11 (even though the czech's have evidence) and that is what the Bush administration asserts. Whenever you have a Republican president you get these crazy liberals (most of the U.S is middle of the road who oppose gay marriage and sex with donkeys, unless its on the internet) crying and screaming about the nazi regime in office. Its sad that they can not offer a better arguement. And when one passes (such as Reagan, who was the best president in the last 50 years) all the liberals stand up and say how much they admired him and backed him. Imbletards. As far as wars go, read what lynxpro had to say about Serbia. How quickly you all forget. And Bush has not purjured himself in a court. Thank You. Please try the fish.
(R) are Nazis? Believe that and I can..... by TheRedMonkey	Jun 23rd, 2004 07:43:23 PM
tell you how to take the money from the rich and give it all to the poor so everyone is on an even playing field and we won't punish children because saying no is bad and everything is happy and positive..... Smells like communism to me you silly liberals. Hippies Smell, smoking weed has been known to make you think like a liberal. Work hard and earn some real money and see how much you like 20-33% of it going to support those who choose not to and to support a failed liberal education structure. When was the last time you went to a violent conservative gathering? If democrats are all so peace loving then why did they all write a blank check for this war? Ba Ba little sheep and do as your master says. THis war is took an evil man out of power and now a propaganda film (hey did you notice that if you took Bush out and replaced it with Jew how Nazi it looks?) wants to distort and misrepresent everything that is occuring. Just as the media declaring that there is no connection to Iraq in regards to 9/11 and the bush administration still claims there is one. The fact is that there is an Al Quaida connection, not necessarily to 9/11 (even though the czech's have evidence) and that is what the Bush administration asserts. Whenever you have a Republican president you get these crazy liberals (most of the U.S is middle of the road who oppose gay marriage and sex with donkeys, unless its on the internet) crying and screaming about the nazi regime in office. Its sad that they can not offer a better arguement. And when one passes (such as Reagan, who was the best president in the last 50 years) all the liberals stand up and say how much they admired him and backed him. Imbletards. As far as wars go, read what lynxpro had to say about Serbia. How quickly you all forget. And Bush has not purjured himself in a court. Thank You. Please try the fish.
Gee, Bushsux, nice tirades. Too bad Cody STILL proved you're a l by Triumph poops!	Jun 23rd, 2004 10:38:58 PM
Nice long, boring posts, dude. Too bad afer going them them as well that you STILL can't produce -- as Cody pointed out -- a single bit of proof that O'Reilly ever said (as you claimed, in overblown Michael Moore style) that "We should kill ALL muslims." That's the level of hate talk you attributed to O'Reilly, but you still can't back it up. Meaning you ARE full of shit. But I guess when you get cornered for making stuff up, as I'm sure you often do to justify your rants, just like Moore you decide to switch topics to avoid being shown up as the wind bag you are. Which is always a clear sign of a man who has no clue about what the fuck he's talking about. Next time you see your doctor, tell him to UP your shock therapy treatments, Bushsux. Your brain synapses still aren't firing enough wattage to form intelligent thoughts.
IS TRIUMPHPOOPS 15 YEARS OLD OR WHAT? by bushsux	Jun 24th, 2004 07:13:03 AM
No matter how much evidence, how much statistics, how much logic, no one can ever convince Triumphpoops he is wrong. Rather than answering the criticism with his own logic, he'll just say something like "well, at least O'Reilly never said 'Kill all muslims!'" What about all the other mistakes, lies and fumblings I pointed out about O'Reilly? What about when O'Reilly went on a tirade about how NPR doesn't have any conservatives on when it does? What about when O'Reilly bungles statistics to conveniently support his "arguments" like with the black percentages in Florida's University's? What about the outrageous remark he made about how marujuana and ecstasy support Al-Queda when he could find vague evidence at best to support his claims(Israeli mobsters in bed with the Bin-Laden? I'll believe it when I see it.) Get out of your mother's basement, go to your library, and read a book you dumb shit. By the way, on O'Reilly's show today he reran an excerpt from 2002 where he debated Moore on his show. Moore made him look like an idiot.
Moore tearing O'Reilly into shreds in today's Factor by bushsux	Jun 24th, 2004 07:21:49 AM
By the way, on O'Reilly's show today he reran an excerpt from 2002 where he debated Moore on his show. Moore made him look like an idiot. Moore said that the big corporations are, in fact, not capitalistic because they have ben trying to destroy competition and enhance their own monopolies. What was O'Reilly's counter? He used ENRON as an example of a big corporation that encouraged competition. This was after the ENRON Scandal. Another example of how O'Reilly was outclassed on his own show; Moore implied that redistributing wealth from the rich to the poor was, in fact, a Christian-Catholic value because in the bible God says he will reward those who help the poor and unfortunate. To that, O'Reilly said that that's a decision that cannot be forced on the individual. Of course, Moore pointed out, very eloquently, that we live in a democracy where people vote for elected officials and public policy, therefore the decision is not "forced" upon us because we ultimately vote for them. It was like watching Moore as Mike Tyson knocking out Petey McNeeley(O'Reilly) in the first round.
http://slate.msn.com//id/2102723 by sheared	Jun 24th, 2004 07:27:06 AM
http://slate.msn.com//id/21027 23 http://slate.msn.com//id/21027 23 http://slate.msn.com//id/21027 23 http://slate.msn.com//id/21027 23
Red Monkey by Homer Sexual	Jun 24th, 2004 12:55:57 PM
Gosh, I thought I'd come back to this thread and see if the back-and-forth was still going on, and it certainly is. Darth is lucky now, since Triumph is using the same sort of angry profanity that people were trying to get Darth banned for. But I really want to say that Red Monkey has really crossed the line by equating gay marriage to sex with donkeys. Are gay people equal to donkeys? I will admit that I smoke weed, but I also wear a suit and make real money, FYI. Being against terrorism isn't that same as being pro-Bush. I certainly don't feel any safer now than I did before. In fact, I probably feel less safe since America is becoming so unpopular. And the Democrats are attempting to be respectful of a dead president. Just because the left hasn't been attacking a dead guy doesn't mean we agree with what he did as president.
Moriarty!! Just WTF Are you talking about? by cookylamoo	Jun 24th, 2004 05:00:41 PM
If this is how a centrist liberal talks, no wonder people prefer the slanted rhetoric of far lefties like Moore. Cheeze Louise, Moriarty, your sentences couldn't have been more tortured if they'd been incarcertated at Abu Garub. Just what is your point about who controls the media? About anything involving this movie. I'm lost in translation. If you're reviews are this obtuse, you should be writing for Rolling Stone.
Bushsux, you truly do live in fantasy land... by Commando Cody	Jun 24th, 2004 09:15:24 PM
First off, Triumph was simply echoing what I challenged you on directly and which you NEVER were able to prove. You stated in cold hard English that O'Reilly advocated "killing all Muslims" when in fact he merely supported a military shift to aerial bombs to eleviate ground force losses. Which is a MAJOR difference. But again, what's twisting (or rather flat out making up) a few words to achieve the end result of pushing propaganda to an utter buffoon like you? After all, you learned well coming from the Michael Moore school of twisted fact checking. Could you back up your completey over the top and raving hysterical hyperbole that O'Reilly advocated killing all Muslims -- no. Instead you got defensive, caught in your lie, and took the stance of "Ok, here's other things he said..." Secondly, I saw the Moore interview repeat today and it was a joke. O'Reilly simply had...surprisingly enough...a fairly pleasant conversation with Moore. Both kept their tempers, both were clearly trying to wear smiles and get the upper hand. In the end, O'Reilly simply portrayed Moore as the socialist buffoon he is. Funny how you don't mention in your quotes how in the interview Moore stated that his idea of "fair" taxation is 70 PERCENT for anyone considered wealthy. Speaking as someone with money, who makes it the old fashioned way of working hard and earning it, the ludicrous notion that I should be working as hard as I do and ONLY keeping 30 cents on the dollar simply so Michael Moore can spread it around is pure communism. O'Reilly outclassed Moore at every turn. Every time Moore tried to put the populist spin on things such as saying "Well it's Christian to give to the needy" O'Reilly had the correct position by essentially pointing out religion is a PERSONAL belief. And as such, it's up to each PERSON to decide if they want to give (or how much), but it's not Michael Moore's job to determine how much he wants to stick his hand into someone's wallet just because HE feels they've made too much. And as for your Enron example, O'Reilly called them crooks as well -- in fact, he flat out stated that he felt corporate America was filled with greed and needed to be addressed as well. But the interview DIDN'T go down the way you make it out, as if Moore was saying Enron was "bad" and O'Reilly was saying it was good. The only reason Enron came up was because the ACTUAL discussion they were having was over breaking up companies or monopolies. But nice of you to spin it again, asswipe. I love your posts. In the immortal words of Gene Hackman in SUPERMAN about Otis, "It's amazing that brain can generate enough power to walk."
bushsux, I think you hurt our Republican Friends' Feelings by 002	Jun 25th, 2004 05:18:03 AM
I saw that O'Reilly to and, while it was a pleasant conversation, Moore did get the upper hand. Yes, O'Reilly called Enron crooks, but he did also use Enron as an example of how corporations are encouraging competition. If Moore is a socialist, than O'Reilly is a racist. Call me a commie but believing the rich should give back to the poor is better than believing muslim civilian women and children don't have a right to live.

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