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Bob and Harvey buying FAHRENHEIT 9/11 from Disney'

Is it me, or is Michael Moore borrowing a page out of Mel Gibson by Happy Harry	May 13th, 2004 04:18:30 AM
The plan seems to be this: create an average movie about a sensitive subject; then create your own media storm that is totally not based in actual facts just so people will hear about your movie being contraversial and as such make them think it is actually important for them to see; and finally sit back as ignorant Americans buy into this scam and finance your new boat. Hell, it worked for Mel. Of course, people actually liked Mel and his previous movies, so I don't know if Michael will have the same success. Your thoughts?
First by Wookman1923	May 13th, 2004 04:19:08 AM
Glad to see this isn't going to be held up a long time like Dogma was. Interested to see what Moore has to say. Way to go Weinsteins
Not so fast, Quint by reversemigraine	May 13th, 2004 04:20:24 AM
That story was from this morning. Now IMDB is saying that "according to Variety, the company is now refusing the Weinsteins' offer to buy it back in order to find a new distributor, as it did in the case of Kids and Dogma, two other films that it rejected because of the content matter." Hell, the AP story only said the Weinstein's were attempting to buy the movie, not that they had done so.
CENSORSHIP! by Captain Opus	May 13th, 2004 04:34:17 AM
CENSORSHIP! CENSORSHIP! WHITE CHRISTIAN REPUBLICAN'S ARE CENSORING THIS HERO! THIS GENIUS! THIS...oh, wait. Now that I've actually taken time to read the whole article, instead of just whatever suits my biased opinion, I see that Mr. Moore's film just might get seen. You know this is the greatest country on earth, when a dishonest propagandist can spread his venom all over the country and not be arrested for it. That's a America!
Let me just jump in here before those crazy Right wing facist Re by darth_billy	May 13th, 2004 04:52:09 AM
I can't wait to see this film, here in the good old U of K. The reason that Michael Moore is hated so much, apart from the fact that he is fat and uncooth, is that he is very good at illustrating the facist nature of the right wing, in such a way that the average person can understand. The right wing fear him, so they try to discredit him by using petty and often baseless arguments. Like the Wall street journal review of the film, based on a press release, of the old script of the movie, (which just so happens to have nothing to do with the final version of the movie itself). It's all there on www.MichaelMoore.com . I mean the right wing have gotta know that they have somehow elected this monkey in the whitehouse. I'd be pissed by that, and I'd be especially pissed if I had a loudmouth filmaker trying to show the world what a monkey he really is...
I don't need to see this movie to know every second of it is com by Happy Harry	May 13th, 2004 04:52:52 AM
Don't you see that Michael makes movies like this because he knows there's a niche of people so against everything organized that they're going to slurp this crap up. So rather than trying something creative or artistic, like actually trying to write a real script, Moore just paint negatively all that America stands for and holds sacred. The truth is: we like having access to guns and deep in our hearts we know we need a Republican like Bush in the Whitehouse right now to send all those flipping head chopping/building destroying sand rats straight to hell. Michael is not making art, he is just profiting off hatred and distrust, heh...kind of like the Nazis did in the 20s. Interesting!
Slightly different purposes, my friend. by Happy Harry	May 13th, 2004 05:04:35 AM
Listen, I'm only taking a break from looking at Britney Spears' pictures to correct you. To compare our actions in Iraq to Germany's actions in Poland, Russia, and the rest of Europe is to serve a grave injustice to history. To keep things simple for you: when the Nazis went into other countries in the 30s, it was to take them over and establish Hitler's dream of a perfect society (i.e. world domination). When we went into Iraq, it was because they had a shit load of oil, Americans love our SUVs, and Sadame thought he owned it all. Whose laughing now, bitch! Now back to sweet, sweet Britney.
"Sand Rats"? Wjha??? Who's the real Nazi?? by darth_billy	May 13th, 2004 05:05:47 AM
Happy_Harry (not AICN Harry), it's people like you who are facist Nazis. What you are doing is lambasting a man, because he is questioning his government. He is pointing out corruption in his government. He is doing this because he is a loyal American and he loves his country. It is his duty to question his government, and not to blindly follow it, when it is commiting acts of crime and illigalities. All YOU have to contribute is to call him unpatriotic, a Nazi, and then you have the audacity to refer to Arabs as "sand rats". THAT makes you far closer to a Nazi than Michael Moore could ever be. It's attitudes like yours that gets America in half the troubles it get's itself into. Going round the world, feeling superior, and calling people racist names like "Sand Niggers", and your very own "Sand Rats". Whereas people like Michael Moore, have actually allowed people like me (A UK Muslim), understand that that I can actually like America, while dispising the right wing facist government that currently occupies the White House. Hail to the Thief!!!
You're right, Darth Billy, we better all listen to you. by Happy Harry	May 13th, 2004 05:10:24 AM
Because if we don't, you're liable to cut our fucking heads off with you and your other Muslim terrorists buddies, right. I mean, come on, look at the facts: Friends was simply not that funny in its last view years, but that doesn't justify cutting innocent people's heads off. I think Michael Moore and people who support his movie, also support cutting people's heads off. And I for one, a true patriot, won't sit by and ...oops... my Paris Hilton video is done downloading. See ya!
Happy_Harry, you makes me laugh !!! by darth_billy	May 13th, 2004 05:14:02 AM
I just read your response to me. It made me smile. My only response to you is to reiterate what Stoopid just said in his response to you ... Happy Harry you couldnt have illustrated my point any clearer.Thank you. LOL. Thank God I live in a more enlightened environment than you. :-)
UK? Enlightened? Are you joking!? by Happy Harry	May 13th, 2004 05:22:35 AM
Are you really going to try and convince someone that you're living in a more Enlightened society over there in the UK than here in the States, with the rampant alcohol problems, the piss poor health care system, and the rapidly increasing youth suicide rates. And by the way, didn't we kick your asses back in that little war for independence, so why are you even talking to me? Why don't you just go back to chopping off the heads of innocent civilians and stop trying to pass off this "UK is more enlightened than the State" horse crap.
Happy_Harry as they would say in our parliament . . . . . by darth_billy	May 13th, 2004 05:31:21 AM
"I have nothing to add to the reply I gave to the (dis)honourable Member earlier". . . .Your ignorant rantings make me smile, and cause you to argue against your own cause. I am grateful that I have nothing to do with you in real life. . . Goodbye :-)
Happy Harry ... by Basf	May 13th, 2004 06:34:38 AM
Even though you
HA HA HA! What a dolt Moore is. I love that the latest twist i by Big Dumb Ape	May 13th, 2004 08:27:11 AM
Good for Eisner, who I have no real love for, but right now he's going up in my book since he can REALLY stick it to Moore and Weinstein for being such pompous, self-righteous asses who were less interested in making a documentary and more interested in making a propaganda shitfest for the DNC. Moore and Weinstein CLEARLY took and abused Disney financing that was targeted towards Miramax's development and production slate and siphoned off $6 million of it to complete a movie that even now THEY BOTH ADMIT they were told NOT to complete or bother with because Eisner and Disney TOLD THEM -- more than a YEAR ago -- that it had NO intention of ever distributing it. So what do they do? Ego cocksuckers that Moore and Weinstein are, they decide to make it anyway...of course, using someone else's money. And once their Frankenstein monster was finished, THEN they played that ridiculous con game in the media of acting "surprised" -- GASP! -- that Eisner and Disney now didn't want to distribute it. Gee, you would've thought these Einsteins would have figured THAT out when DISNEY TOLD MOORE'S AGENT PERSONALLY MORE THAN A YEAR AGO THAT THIS FILM WAS DEAD ON ARRIVAL. And I love Moore's pathetic excuse "Well, the checks kept coming." Yeah, jerkoff -- from Harvey and Miramax, NOT from Eisner and Disney. Eisner should do 2 things. First, he should hold the movie till AFTER the election since it's clearly a $6 million propaganda slur piece (since Moore wouldn't know the definition of a balanced documentary if it bit him in his hulking ass). Second, once the elections are over, if Moore still wants to buy it back, I hope Eisner THEN turns to him and says "Well since you spent $6 million of Disney you weren't supposed to spend, NOT ONLY do you owe me that $6 mill, but you ALSO owe me whatever interest that money would have accrued just sitting in the bank. In fact, along that same line, whatever OTHER backend costs Miramax backbilled to Disney to make this shitfest -- administrative, research, travel, or otherwise -- you have to compensate Disney for TOO." I hope Eisner drives up the price that it'll cost Moore to get FAHRENHEIT back just to stick it to him. Moore deserves a good bitch slapping for the way he tried to literally RAM the distribution of this piece of shit down Eisner's throat. Right now, Eisner's holding all the cards -- Disney DID pay for the film and legally they do OWN it. Hell, if Eisner wanted to, he could just kick back and say "What the hell. I make so much as an Exec with my stock options annually, I'LL just repay the studio the $6 million, and then we'll just sit on it till I FEEL like putting it out. But since COLUMBINE did turn a profit...and since we DID pay for FAHRENHEIT too...Disney SHOULD be the ones to profit by it at SOME point. That only makes good business sense. So DISNEY will be the ones to decide "when" it comes out to maximize DISNEY'S investment in it, NOT you, lard ass."
US Justice by Colonel Smith	May 13th, 2004 08:51:10 AM
I simply don't understand the big shock in USA regarding Nick Berg's fate - after all, since Bush came to power, there have been 409 executions in the USA. Us Europeans think that it would be considered normal treatment of prisoners....
Sky News, "how wude!" by darth_billy	May 13th, 2004 08:54:22 AM
Come on Stoopid, you're not going to start spouting "breaking news" from that silly news channel are you? It may be a real story, or an exaggerated one, but I would never use Sky News as a reference. For ALL you non UK people out there.... SKY News is a Murdoch owned News channel, Murdoch also owns Fox news. Sky news is getting closer and closer to the wonderful standards that Fox news sets, as each day passes.
Losers..... by CrimandEvil	May 13th, 2004 09:00:00 AM
See I told you. It was all smoke being blown up your asses, nothing to do with censorship.
Someone's kissing Michael Moore's fat ass by Jeditemple	May 13th, 2004 09:17:36 AM
This site is funded by Michael Moore.
Actually, Big Ape is RIGHT about Michael Eisner. Don't you geek by Commando Cody	May 13th, 2004 09:29:09 AM
For those who don't remember or are too young to have been around back when RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK first came out... When Lucas and Spielberg joined forces and created RAIDERS, they decided they wanted to control the property -- that is, own it themselves (versus the studio) to maximize their end of profits. So they wrote down the business terms they wanted on a single sheet of notebook paper. That's right...their terms were only ONE PAGE long, handwritten even! The business terms they were seeking were that simple, and more importantly that all-encompassing. Lucas and Spielberg then started to shop RAIDERS around Hollywood, where most studio heads instantly balked at the terms since they favored Lucas & Spielberg so amazingly heavy. However, when they got to Paramount (where Eisner was in charge) he accepted the deal, stunning every other exec in town. Especially since Eisner and Paramount were not known for giving into talent that way. If anything, Eisner was already known for the bottom line approach, company-favored economic model that he insisted the studio run on. So why did he give in to Lucas & Spielberg? In a business interview that was published after RAIDERS came out, Eisner basically said, "I was like every other exec in town. There was no way I wanted to give that much away to those guys. But I looked at Steven and George's track records and their track record for rewriting box office history... I looked at the property and instantly saw how likely it was going to be a major hit.. and I realized that IF I let them walk out of my office, I was literally giving away a blockbuster to a competing studio. So as much as I didn't like the terms on RAIDERS, I didn't want to see another studio making the movie -- or worse, making a pile of money off it. My primary job as studio head was to make sure Paramount always came out ahead of the competition." ********** So when you really stop and think about it, Ape's assertion that Eisner is in the driver's seat is pretty accurate. At this point in time, Disney does legally own FAHRENHEIT -- if they didn't, Moore and Weinstein wouldn't even need to bring up this whole notion of "buying it back." So realistically speaking, if Eisner was smart (or remained true to Eisner business tactics) he'd clearly refuse to sell FAHRENHEIT back. Even if Eisner personally hates Moore's politics behind the scenes, going back to the RAIDERS story, Eisner is clearly shrewd enough as a businessman to realize that a $6 million investment in FAHRENHEIT is a drop in the bucket compared to "what" it might make eventually either theatrically or on DVD given it's controversial nature. So like RAIDERS, I can see Eisner the businessman now changing his mind about selling the movie back and saying to Moore/Weinstein, "Disney money paid for FAHRENHEIT, so Disney will be the corporation to profit from it. Not someone else. Much like RAIDERS, I refuse to let it go to a competitor where someone else will make a good payday off it. So it stays put till I can decide what we're going to do with it in order to maximize the profits from it."
Yo... Stoopid! by JUDAS'S PRIEST	May 13th, 2004 10:37:18 AM
Scotland is pretty cool and generally Great Britain does seem a more relaxed place than America as far as liberalisation goes. But don't forget that we are also living in a country that currently has a very nasty tabloid press campaign against immigration and asylum seekers, and it is receiving a lot of public support. I work in South East England and I am surrounded by people that don't want anymore "foreigners" in the UK. So, I'd say that statistically the UK has as many small minded ignorant fuck wits as the USA on a per capita basis. I am under no delusions here. I've lived in Canada, the UK and Australia and I'd say that the asshole to decent people ratio is pretty much the same. I guess my point is that generally speaking, most people are assholes. In the interests of subjectivity, I'd say that I am probably an asshole too, the difference being, I hide behind my liberal beliefs while most other assholes hide behind their religious or political beliefs.
Yo... Stoopid! by JUDAS'S PRIEST	May 13th, 2004 10:38:31 AM
Scotland is pretty cool and generally Great Britain does seem a more relaxed place than America as far as liberalisation goes. But don't forget that we are also living in a country that currently has a very nasty tabloid press campaign against immigration and asylum seekers, and it is receiving a lot of public support. I work in South East England and I am surrounded by people that don't want anymore "foreigners" in the UK. So, I'd say that statistically the UK has as many small minded ignorant fuck wits as the USA on a per capita basis. I am under no delusions here. I've lived in Canada, the UK and Australia and I'd say that the asshole to decent people ratio is pretty much the same. I guess my point is that generally speaking, most people are assholes. In the interests of subjectivity, I'd say that I am probably an asshole too, the difference being, I hide behind my liberal beliefs while most other assholes hide behind their religious or conservative political beliefs.
talkback? by Papageno	May 13th, 2004 10:58:41 AM
As I was reading this talkback, I became quite offended with all the harsh language being used to make one's point. I am not a saint, but this is supposed to be a talkback, where everyone has the right to speak their mind. And here's my opinion; First... Holding back a movie because of its political content is wrong. it doesn't matter if it is against of for the government, its plain wrong. Hitler and Saddam did these things, so did Stalin. And I am not comparing your president to any of those people, before you all start to bite my head off. Second... Why should the appearance and the body-weight of a filmmaker be of any reason to hold back his films? Is he making a 6.000.00o dollar propaganda film... maybe, so is the government, they spend 1 billion. Third... In my eyes... America did invade Iraq. They were not at war with that country. America says they were at war with Saddam. So that means that any country that doesn't like Bush -as a person-, may bomb Washington and invade the USA, place a new government, arrest anybody, and criticize a culture they do not understand. (sorry for my English, it is not my native language) My point is, that if the world wants a brutal dictator out of office, they should leave that to the United Nations. And not only those countries that may have oil. Saddam did not fly those planes in the WTC towers. Who did, nobody knows for sure, but we are told that probably Osama gave the order. Let
If I read the word COMMUNIStT in this post one more time....... by TedSallis	May 13th, 2004 01:30:10 PM
What part of the country (or world for that matter) are these people from?? I keep hearing this, and , all I can guess is that there's a group of folks out there who REALLY want it to be the 50's again..commies, Ward Cleaver, Nixon as VP...It's really bizarre. Why not just call anyone who doesn't agree with you ideologically a 'Kraut!!!' Or how about a 'Gook!'. Good ol xenophobic siege mentality!! I've got feeling that your warm little bubble of misinformation is starting to get smaller.
If I read the word COMMUNIST in this post one more time....... by TedSallis	May 13th, 2004 01:43:53 PM
What part of the country (or world for that matter) are these people from?? I keep hearing this, and , all I can guess is that there's a group of folks out there who REALLY want it to be the 50's again..commies, Ward Cleaver, Nixon as VP...It's really bizarre. Why not just call anyone who doesn't agree with you ideologically a 'Kraut!!!' Or how about a 'Gook!'. Good ol xenophobic siege mentality!! I've got feeling that your warm little bubble of misinformation is starting to get smaller.
Don't get mad at me for pointing out the truth, which is... by Happy Harry	May 13th, 2004 05:48:02 PM
That Michael Moore supports Muslims, who cut off heads. It's pretty clear for anybody who watches more than five minutes of Bowling for Columbine. I mean, come on, read between the lines people! Am I the only one who believes in America anymore? Down with all hate mongers and sand niggers!
The only way the Marvel Superheroes can stop Harry's evil is wit by Grabthars_Hammer	May 13th, 2004 05:58:35 PM
Anyone else remember these comic book ads from the 70's?
Sand Niggers? by TedSallis	May 13th, 2004 06:08:40 PM
Wow, Happy Harry. You sure have shown your true colors..and folks, we have another derogatory term here too! 'Sand Niggers!' Now, this is fine, we're in a free country (thank god) and you can call people whatever name you like...here's the problem, in the same sentence, you call them 'hate-mongering'. Do you see the point?...probably not.
I'm sorry, but... by Happy Harry	May 13th, 2004 06:33:59 PM
There's just no reason to be all PC and respectful of other people, if they either do cut off people's heads or support people who do (i.e. Michael Moore and Christina Aguilera). So, if I offended anybody with my comment, you should be more offended that the hot undergrad sitting near me in the coffee house hasn't once offered to "go wild" like I see on so many late night video commercials.
HAHAHAH! Someone said Moore is profiting off hatred and then cri by Tall_Boy	May 13th, 2004 06:46:39 PM
wow buddy. You're fucking insane. You know what's awesome? Living in reality. Come join us, won't you?
i goofed by Papageno	May 13th, 2004 07:14:40 PM
First of all... indeed Ancient Lights... I goofed... the id of the hijackers was confirmed, and its pretty sure the Osama tapes were actual, so he was indeed the one who gave the order for the terrorist attack on the WTC, Pentagon and the crashed plane... i stand corrected. And for people who cut off heads of their captives... I do not agree with them, and I'm pretty sure neither does mr. Moore. Such an act of brutality is un-human, and accusing someone of agreeing with those actions is un-human as well. The killing of an American citizen (or any non-soldier of any country, including the native Iraq) is to be considered a murder, and should be dealt like a murder. NOT AN ACT OF WAR. Since the murder took place on Iraq soil, the Iraq laws should be upheld. (You wouldn't accept an american civilian who murdered an iraq civilian on US soil to have face an all Iraq court of justice, could you? just because the victim was an iraque?) And besides, apart from the gruesome picture of Iraq POW (are they? I thought US was not at war with the people of Iraq? Or so Bush told us all), the US has also not been very nice according to the International Human Rights (the prison on cuba) and the Geneva Convention. (but being Geneva is an European city, this does not refer to US conduct, they can do whatever they please, and... and this has angered the world... is the only country who does not allow their soldiers to be placed for an international tribunal in the Hague. Do you in the USA know that Bush has told the Netherlands.. their allies.. that they would invade the Netherlands if any US soldier is put before an international court? Think about that) All in all... cutting off heads, torturing and killing inocent prisoners is wrong, no matter who kills who. Iraque terrorists are wrong, some US soldiers are wrong... (two wrongs do not make one right) America is not the leader of the world... and as soon as Americans start to accept that, things will start to look up... No-one likes a bully... Saddam was a bully, Bush said... But for a lot of people, the US are bullies too.
again... Happy Harry... by TedSallis	May 13th, 2004 07:24:38 PM
WHAT'RE YOU TALKING ABOUT?????????? "or People who support people who chop someones head off??" Does Michael Moore support the monsters who did that??? Are you sure?? Fuckin moronic kneejerk reactions are just the sort of stupidity that makes people (and nations) do stupid things!! Jeez folks, we have a SERIOUS problem with our eductaion system in this country!!
Happy Harry by Papageno	May 13th, 2004 07:32:24 PM
I'm pretty sure mr. Happy Harry is trying to get us all freaked out. His texts are big red flags... just ignore him.. he's having a real good laugh at all the replies to his letters, he's probably telling us next that Michael Moore himself, in disguise, has chopped off the hostage's head as part of his film. Or by saying that, have I just ruined your next post by mr. Happy?
Do you have any proof Moore didn't cut off Berg's noggin?! by Happy Harry	May 13th, 2004 07:48:45 PM
I didn't think so! Don't totally discount any theories until they have been proven conclusively as being false or accurate. I'm just saying it's possible Moore organized the beheading as part of a vast left-wing conspiracy to dampen US morale towards the war and the current administration's efforts there, thereby drawing support for Kerry. I hope I'm wrong and Moore didn't have a hand in cutting off Berg's head, but frankly I don't trust anyone anymore and neither should you. I feel like I'm the only one making in sense in here!
I figured it out..Happy Harry is the culprit..not al Zaqawi!! by TedSallis	May 13th, 2004 08:04:15 PM
No no..really, he's in onit!! I heard all about it on an AM radio station. The announcer kept ranting and ranting amid silence. then played clips of Heavy Metal music and took calls from angry overweight guys...
RE: Happy Harry & Moore's Self-Promotion by DMented	May 13th, 2004 08:16:40 PM
Haven't always agreed with what Moore has done in his films. With the powers of final cut and out-of-sequence editing, it's far too easy to make people you don't like or agree with look dumb -- and Moore has taken a lot of cheap shots. But he didn't create this situation, Disney did. If this is just a promotional scheme, Disney's in on it ... but let's assume it's not that, not just manufactured controversy. Regardless of what I think of Moore, I'm completely disgusted with Disney that they'd refuse to distribute a film for brazenly political reasons. I realize America has taken quite a swing to the right lately, but did Disney buy Miramax -- an indie film company -- just to turn it into something else? I think Moore's film makes sense coming from Miramax, but Disney has had the unbelievable gall to fuck with their creative decisions. If I was working for Miramax, I'd be sending out resumes by the dozens right now. Fuck Disney. I think it's pretty clear this film represents Moore's opinions, not Eisner's, or Disney's -- so anybody in the Bush camp whose clouded thoughts might have had it otherwise is probably too inbred to be taken seriously by anybody. But it was supposedly this very fear, that the Bushes would believe the film represented Disney's views, that caused Eisner to wet himself. Fucking idiot. Get out of the film business. You don't have the balls for it. Go back to making your safe, brainless cartoons.
RE: Hate Mongers and Sand Niggers??? by DMented	May 13th, 2004 08:23:51 PM
For what it's worth, I think Happy Harry's just trolling, because I don't think anyone could be dumb enough to say "down with all hate mongers and sand niggers" and be able to operate a personal computer. I'm sure it's occurred to Harry that anyone who uses the term "sand nigger" is in fact a "hate monger." Right, Harry? Of course, if I'm wrong I'd like to ask Harry to place his ball sack in the microwave for 1 minute on high, just to ensure he never reproduces.
Jesus Christ, Happy Harry is a stupid motherfucker by Mister Pink	May 13th, 2004 09:00:31 PM
So is anyone else who supports George Bush, But Happy Harry...Jesus H Christ on a saltine cracker...you must eat stupid sandwiches for lunch every day on stupid bread with stupid sauce and wash them down with stupid cola. The truth is, Harry (and all the rest of you mentally challenged compulsive masturbators who vote for Bush and get all your news from that fucking junkie, Limbaugh)that Michael Moore is the best fucking friend you could ever hope for. He tells you the truth (yes the TRUTH. BFC was ACCURATE despite what you hear from junkies on the radio and read in your gun porn magazines). Michael Moore is trying to save you from yourselves. Hitler is in the White House and you need to fucking listen. Actually, it isn't fair to compare Smirkin' George to Hitler. Hitler was democratically elected and he served in military combat. No matter my point is this: the invasion of Iraq = the invasion of Poland. We have attrocities being committed against innocent civilians by GI Joes with great big shit eating grins on their faces. And yes, I said INNOCENT CIVILIANS, fucktards. According to Red Cross and US military reports, 70-90% of those in the prisons were innocent bystanders swept up in raids. Some of them, maybe one out of ten, may have actually committed some offense or have some connection with Saddam's regime (but not al Qaeda. AQ had fuck all to do with Iraq before Chicken George decided that God wanted him to go kill brown people). We have little girls being tortured and raped, prisoners getting glow sticks rammed up their asses, teenage boys getting buttfucked, guys getting beaten to death and left to die in their own shit, dogs getting sicced on naked prisoners. The list goes on and fucking on (and don't bother bringing up that dude that got his head sawed off. Yes, it's just as evil. No, it's not MORE evil than beating a guy to death for three days or torturing and raping a twelve year old girl, and no it doesn't retrocatively justify anything in the prisons or give you moral permission to indulge in your sicko, genocidal revenge fantasies). Christ only knows what the fuck is going on at Gitmo, but if Bush has his way, they will start holding secret trials and summary executions as soon as possible. That's not speculation. The WH and pentagon want to bring in a gas chamber and start having assembly line executions, executions of people who were arrested without charges, held without access to counsel or family, who are accorded neither the rights of the criminally accused nor the rights of POWs. The Bushies have invented a new category out of their asses called "unlawful combatants" which is so Orwellian in its irony that it defies belief. What that definition means is that they had the gall not to be in uniforms when GWB attacked them. This is an evil regime. Bush is a half-wit meat puppet but he's controlled by forces as dark as any we have ever known or will know. Karl Rove would give Darth Vader the fucking shivers. You have to know, morons. Pull your heads out of your fucking Bibles and learn some fucking truth. Don't fear it. Embrace it. Don't kill the fat man cuz he says mean things about your dumbshit hero. LISTEN. Wise the fuck up. Quit obsessing over whether some dude wants to marry another dude or whether it's your fucking business if a rape victim wants to take a morning after pill (it's NOT your fucking business, if you were wondering), what matters is saving your country before it's destroyed beyond all repair. Michael Moore is your friend. he cares about you. He's like the buddy that drags you into rehab after you fuck up your car. You're pissed at him at first but you thank him when you're sober. You fucking OWE him. You should drop to your knees and blow him in gratitude. Pull your fucking heads out of your asses for once. Did I mention what s stupid fuck Happy Harry is? Well he is.
No I'm not by Happy Harry	May 13th, 2004 09:07:02 PM
You are!
Oooh, what a withering come back... by Mister Pink	May 13th, 2004 09:17:42 PM
I guess I'll go blow my brains out now before you say "I know you are but what am I."
I only come to AICN to read geeks arguing world politics by scumbag	May 13th, 2004 09:36:09 PM
zzzzzzzzzzzzz....
you are insane if you think Moore actually cares about getting t by welb25	May 13th, 2004 10:24:00 PM
he takes the Columbine tragedy and exploits it to make money and further his agenda. Now he is taking the tragedy of 9/11 and doing the same. He is not trying to fucking help the American people by making these films, just himself. Bush exploited 9/11 to enter into a personal war with Saddam Hussein and Iraq. They are both fucks.
To Happy Harry by Mafu	May 13th, 2004 10:42:14 PM
Harry, nice comments. I can't really agree with one word you wrote, and you're definitely the biggest fucking asshole I've ever seen post on this site, but you're entitled to your opinion.
Sad by Mr. Pink2003	May 13th, 2004 10:49:28 PM
You really don't understand do you? You sit on your flaccid asses, pecking away on some dumb-ass web site about stolen elections and blood for oil and all of that other bullshit that really means nothing. I'd like to know how many of you have ever loved or respected someone or some cause enough to risk your life for it, and I'm not talking about shouting slogans at some goddamn protest pep rally and you might get busted and have your arm twisted back a bit, I'm talking about being willing to die for someone or something because you believe in it. Hands anyone??? The people who run around the world and blow up school children and cut the heads off of helpless bound men have that kind of will, and that kind of faith in their cause. We, as Americans, do not. We do not because we don't have car bombs exploding on our streets daily. We don't because masked killers are not slaughtering our children and parents and loved ones every fucking day like in the rest of the world. So we sit on our fat asses (and before you start to bitch, my fat ass is included in this too) and we play video games, watch bullshit
So, basically, ala SCANNERS we can all look forward to Mr. Pink' by Big Dumb Ape	May 14th, 2004 01:40:22 AM
Well, I don't know if it'll blow up as good as ILM or WETA or Rick Baker might have staged, but it'll still make for a fun geek night come November...
Dear Mr. Pink by WeedyMcSmokey	May 14th, 2004 02:18:15 AM
It's precisely because of that neo-realist perspective and those who share it with you why we can never hope to progress beyond eradication. Thanks for sharing.
To Happy Harry by Quetzal	May 14th, 2004 04:06:59 AM
Dear Mr America, just because you don't see Americans kill their prisoners in Iraq means that they don't. How many Iraqis aka Sand niggers as you might want to call them have died a natural death like a "heart attack" or a "collapse" after weeks of torture? But as long Mr Rumsfeld can live with that, you sure have another reason to be a good and proud Lemmi... I mean American. A shocked reader from Germany (yes, that country, now load your guns)
Oh! I love this! by Happy Harry	May 14th, 2004 05:28:22 AM
A Nazi is now morallizing to the rest of us in the states about how we should treat others and what is moral or not?!?! That's pretty funny. I don't know if all the flipping Jews you guys roasted back during WWII would care to hear your opinions on how prisoners of war should be treated, but I sure don't want to hear it. It would be great if from now on all the Muslims and Nazis who parlay this website could refrain from posting such easy targets for true patriots like myself to knock out of the air. It would be out of courtesy to the superior country that wipped your ass in not one war this century, but two! And ER tonight was great, by the way. What drama!
Happy Harry by Papageno	May 14th, 2004 06:01:10 AM
So a German equals a Nazi now? If mr. Happy is going to give us a history lesson... Do the words "Native-American" and "genocide" ring any bells? I wasn't there in Europe during WW2, neither was the German writer of the last posting, and neither were you. Lets get back to the issue at hand... holding back the freedom of a movie in a free country, and not go there calling people names like all Germans being Nazi... In my country.. a free country... that sort of name calling is considered uncivilized, and might get you in contact with the police...
I am flattered by Papageno	May 14th, 2004 06:23:33 AM
Dear Mr.Avon. You are so right about Happy Harry... but for the record.. I am a Man.... And I am affraid I will have to decline your gracious offer of being boned...
I agree Happy Harry is a troll by darth_billy	May 14th, 2004 06:44:14 AM
It's true. We've all been wound up by some silly twat, whom (due to the fact that he lacks any self confidence, or charisma in the real world). Has decided to spout out flame-baiting material on this AICN talkback. He feels big by our reactions... He has power on the net.....Pity the fool...."Batman - Stop!"
working to bring us all together... by Mr. Pink2003	May 14th, 2004 07:24:03 AM
So I managed to offend "Big Dumb Ape" ( who usually leans right) and "WeedyMcsmokey" (whose name say it all). Yo, Ape, no I hate to disappoint but I wont pop if Bush is re-elected, but I wonder how many lives he could save if he would stop sitting on his fucking hands and do something now before waiting to see the election returns. And Weedy, my man, I looked up "neo-realism" in Flew's dictionary of Philosophy and in the good old dictionary and, gee it doesn't seem to be there. I was trying to figure out what the fuck you were calling me to see if you were right. Go smoke another bowl and the rest of us will keep everything going while you try to retro-engineer human nature.
confused by m2298	May 14th, 2004 09:02:39 AM
How long has the U.S. been 'fascist'? Was it fascist under Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton? If (or more likely, when) John Kerry wins in November will it stop becoming fascist? And finally, will concerned readers of this site boycott (or at least buy bootlegs of or illegally download) the films and television shows produced in the US so as to weaken the economy of this fascist nation?
WHAT DO YOU CALL IT? by Wondermutt	May 14th, 2004 09:50:49 AM
Well, I know what you DON'T call it....facism.
Bush slims his way in as president through his republican judges by TheGinger Twit	May 14th, 2004 09:53:34 AM
Fuck you you fucking nazi nation.
fucking christ, we've got Libs ranting and foaming at the mouth by welb25	May 14th, 2004 09:55:25 AM
and we've got Right Wingers going on about Communists. There has to be some fresh arguments somebody can make besides the "America is the cause of everything that's wrong in the world" and the "anyone who disagrees with the war or the Bush administration is a Commie" arguments.
"initiating a terrorist attack" by welb25	May 14th, 2004 10:13:47 AM
speaking of trolling. Moore's film has as much to do with the truth as the books of Hannity and the rants of Limbaugh do.
"invading countries that disobey" by welb25	May 14th, 2004 10:37:36 AM
okay I think the Iraq war is bogus. I think Bush is trying to finish something his father started. You forget that the war in Afghanistan was far from a unilateral action. This was not considered some rash, irrational action (like the invasion of Iraq was). America was attacked and they attacked the organization (Al-qaeda) responsible and the regime that harbored them(the Taliban). Yes, I know I'm assuming that the Bush admistration didn't plan 9/11 to set Bush's plan for world domination into action. To say the U.S. invades every country that "disobeys" is very misleading and is just not true. There are many countries that didn't cooperate in the way the asses in the Bush administration wanted them to in the Iraq war but the U.S. isn't and will not be invading them or taking military action against them. Who knows what the investigation into the U.N. Oil for Food scandal will show? But even if it shows that some of these countries "benefited" (i.e. were bribed) from Saddam being in power the U.S. will do nothing to them. Maybe some empty tough talk, but that's all. There are many countries that "disobey" the U.S. on a daily basis and for you to imply that the U.S. invades these countries is insane.
Everyone knows 911 was an inside job. Everyone knows America jus by TheGinger Twit	May 14th, 2004 10:45:13 AM
Swallow your pride and admit it america - you are a bully. And you are hated. You will die a poor lonely nation.
Happy Harry = Pud/Dick Hertz/Etc? by Pontsing Barset	May 14th, 2004 11:01:22 AM
What kind of a demented fuckhead get's his rocks of by baiting posters on a message board? Get a fucking life for cripes sake.
that's right, just ignore the facts by welb25	May 14th, 2004 11:22:17 AM
you know that al-qaeda had it's base of operations in Afghanistan. Indisputable fact. The U.S. knew the brain trust of al-qaeda was in Afghanistan.(the people who planned 9/11) Even the liberal media here in the U.S. doesn't question that. I admit you can't really call it a success because the U.S. hasn't captured al-qaeda's top two. Oh, and thanks for educating me as to how the media in the country I live in is biased towards the government. If you lived here you would know that Fox News is right wing but that all the rest (CNN, MSNBC, etc.) are very fair and even left leaning. Oh, and there have been U.S. contractors held prisoner and one just had his head taken off.
Hey Grabthar! It wasn't funny when you posted it on the last Fah by Alatar_Blue	May 14th, 2004 12:08:21 PM
Keep the day job pal, the stand-up career is NOT looking good.
I can't look at the two as the same by welb25	May 14th, 2004 12:32:18 PM
sorry, I can't equate people being beheaded, burned and having their charred bodies dragged through the street and their heads being used for footballs with being stripped naked and being deprived of sleep. I guess we will just have to disagree on that. There are offshoots of groups(terrorist and otherwise) in many different countries. Just because there are members of a terrorist group in country A(Spain, or anywhere else) doesn't mean that terrorist group can't be sponsored by the government of country B(Afghanistan). The two are not mutually exclusive. The Taliban was the governing body of Afghanistan. The fact that the U.S. didn't recognize the Taliban as a legitimate government was the only reason it wasn't on the list of states that sponsored terrorism. None of this changes the fact that the Taliban ruled Afghanistan and they supported (financially and otherwise) al-qaeda. Anyways, I'm done posting about this. The futility of debating these things on this talkback is obvious. People aren't going to change each other's minds. It was an interesting discussion Ram, I enjoyed it. Anybody wanna talk about movies?
Al-Quaeda & Spain & Afghanistan by m2298	May 14th, 2004 01:28:27 PM
As noted, Spain is a democracy, and did not train or finance al-Quaeda, and while they may not support the US in Iraq (Azanar notwithstanding) I assume that they want to eradicate the terrorist group as much as the US does. Somehow, the Taliban seems different. Also, to all the Afghanistan war opponents: how would you suggest we (US and the rest of the West) defeat Al-Quaeda? Unless, like Ginger Twit (and Michael Moore?) you believe that 9/11 was planned by the Bush Administration or some 'neoconservative' cabal, in which case everything will be solved with John Kerry's probable victory.
Harry Hating... by Pair a'dice Lost	May 14th, 2004 01:35:46 PM
...funny how some TB'ers love ripping on Harry. WHILE HANGIN' ON HIS SITE ALLDAY!!! 'nuff said.
I don't blame Spain for pulling out of Iraq... by Pair a'dice Lost	May 14th, 2004 01:54:18 PM
...I mean the war is over anyways. Right Mr. Bush?
ClouseauWhat?....another victim of FOX News! by TedSallis	May 14th, 2004 03:19:27 PM
it seems as if you bought into the FOX news, safe fuzzy media bubble. I have a few freinds from Valencia, who were outraged at Anzar for participating in Iraq with Bush. In fact, the vast majority of the Spanish population held this opinion. As soon as the Terror attack happened they KNEW the western media, (Right Agenda media), would seize this as the Spanish public pandering to Al-Qaeda. Whould you have suggested the Spanish public to change there minds 'because' of the terror attacks, and keep Anzar??
Hey kids, lets not argue over more of the same from Moore and go by Tall_Boy	May 14th, 2004 03:34:47 PM
Why? I just saw it last night and the dude eating McDonald's for 30 days is friggin hillarious. I did enjoy Bowling For Columbine, but I think Moore's new movie is gonna have alot to prove beating out a guy eating Big Macs for 30 days. Friggin genius.
but ClouseauWhat?...... by TedSallis	May 14th, 2004 05:12:01 PM
It's still the same old spin, and, im suprised you don't recognize this!! So, as far as you're concerned. Spain hasnt respoed at all to the bombing? And lets not forget, Zapatero campainged on an anti-Iraq platform, and if he hadn't remove the troops, he wouldve betrayed his public. The reason I 'm adamant about this point is, I have a lot of freinds who live overseas, and see the News WAY different than we do. All we see here is this simplistic idea of the rest of the world as yellow bellied appeasers, with the US being the sole defender of good.
the_ram, stoopid, and America The Evil Empire by DMented	May 14th, 2004 06:15:57 PM
I'm not an historian, I'm not an expert in international politics and my frame of reference is no doubt affected by where I was born and grew up -- the US. Now that those horrible admissions are out of the way, what the hell is wrong with those non-American posters who continuously feel the need to bait Americans? Is this some kind of missile envy? Do you seriously want me to wish I'd been born elsewhere? Fat fucking chance. What's really hilarious is that we have people from the UK going on about what a problem the US has become. Do they teach you your own fucking history? Can you say "blatantly imperialist nation"? Can you say "state-condoned religious oppression"? I'm far from in agreement with everything the US has done, recently and historically, but people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. And unless you want to take responsibility for all the shit the UK's pulled, don't expect every US citizen to feel personally accountable for what our government has done. Maybe we have more say in Bush's policies than you do, but how much say is that, really? Do you think if I called Bush and asked him nicely to get out of Iraq that he would? Or maybe I should tell him that as a taxpayer I pay his salary, so he better just fucking back off? Yeah, that would work. Now that we've dealt with the fact that the average American owes you no explanation or apology, let's deal with the supposed evil that's been committed. If Spain does house a Taliban base, YES, it should be eliminated. If it's a populated area I sure wouldn't recommend bombing, but you need to understand ... they've killed innocent civilians. Do you really, truly get that? Imagine your mother, brother or sister murdered violently because someone was angry about events in their country you had nothing to do with, no control over. What would you say then, live and let live? Not my problem? Now multiply that outrage you'd feel by a factor of about five thousand. Five thousand innocent people. YES, INNOCENT. Not everybody in those buildings was a rich power broker. But maybe because they were American, you just can't seem to care? Two-faced, hypocritical bitches. Afghanistan was bombed because fighting terrorists with any hope of effectiveness doesn't allow for an overly liberal, everybody's-honest, innocent-till-proven-guilty approach. The very nature of terrorism makes those tactics ineffective; terrorists use civilians as both weapons and shields, use civilian guises to escape apprehension, so you're pretty much given the choice of racially profiling innocent Arab-Americans or waiting until your sister or mother or best friend is fucking dead in a fireball. Countries whose response when told there are terrorists in their country is, "Really? Well, that's not my problem" ARE the fucking problem. They allow terrorism to work. That's why you might feel the US is taking a "if you're not with us, you're against us" approach. Because if you're not with us, you really are contributing to a problem that threatens the lives of our families, AND WE WILL NOT ALLOW THAT. You wouldn't either. If a country harbors a Taliban base, they probably know very fucking well it exists and tacitly approve. That makes them a potential accessory, even contributor, to more events like 9/11. Even if they know about it but DON'T approve, just feel it's not their place to do anything about it, or don't feel strongly enough about the issue to take a side. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for the good to do nothing." AND THAT'S WHAT JUST ABOUT EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING. Do the people of Iraq want the US there? Probably not on the whole. Was oil a factor? Maybe, but you'd never know it to look at my gas and oil bills. Was Saddam Hussein an evil bastard who murdered many of his own people horribly, and who should have been put to pasture decades ago? You bet your sweet ass, you simpering whiny shits. I'm angry that our president duped us, took the outrage from a horrible event and channeled it toward his own ends. But I'm not sorry Hussein's no longer in power. Are you? Do you fucking see what we're dealing with? I've met many peace-loving, respectable Muslims in my life, but we're trying to fight a lunatic fringe of Muslims who are brutal, hateful, and by any civilized standard, probably clinically insane. Who the fuck saws off a human head -- that of an innocent civilian, no less -- and expects the people of the world to want anything but the killer caught and eliminated? Who parades around the street, alongside their own children, as charred bodies are kicked around the street? The sick fucks who did these things believe they're teaching us a lesson, think we're going to back down out of fear. That's how simply their minds function. How simply does yours function? You say the US doesn't care about what happens in the rest of the world, but it may be a bit more the other way around. How much of the rest of the world is really doing a damn thing to bring the perpetrators of 9/11 to justice? We're acutely aware that despite the propaganda, the US Coalition is pretty much just the US with a few token troops from other countries. But don't worry, you can sit home and jerk off and watch the telly because someone else is handling the problem. It's entirely possible that Hussein never had any WMDs, but do you really want the Middle East to continue on its current path? Because eventually, someone who hates Western Civilization enough WILL have WMDs, and by then it'll be too late by far. Poof, you're gone. If it's acceptable to this lunatic fringe to parade corpses around the street with children standing right there, and to saw the head off a guy who installs antennas for a living, do you think there'll be much soul searching after their first WMD murders millions of innocent people? Or is it just that your worldview can't accept that any American could possibly be innocent in all this?
Oh yeah, stoopid by DMented	May 14th, 2004 06:20:57 PM
Oh yeah, stoopid -- because Rumsfeld did something to piss you off doesn't mean you have to assume every living American was behind him all the way, and buys into his rhetoric. We have a word for people who generalize like that: moron. And because you happen to live outside the US, that doesn't make you the official spokesman for the rest of the world. Sure a lot of people hate America. Definitely keep that shit up, because hate really is the answer ... we're just a young and stupid nation that can't seem to figure that out. We're just good at winning wars, I guess ... oh yeah, and creating technology ... oh yeah, some films too, the Internet you're posting on right now ... But thank God our older European friends are always there to tell us every last fucking thing we do wrong while ignoring their own little sins, and many shortcomings. And the difference between the murder of innocents, and the abuse of those who are far from it, seems a pretty simple thing to grasp. Ask any five year old, you fucking unbelievable fool.
A perfect BUSH/CHENEY re-election slogan.... by TedSallis	May 14th, 2004 06:29:26 PM
I guarantee by August, Bush and Co. will be using the Spanish Election Spin model to sell themselves. Just watch, here's the bumper sticker" A VOTE AGAINST BUSH IS A VOTE FOR AL-QAIDA"..Rove would cream over this one!
Pageno by JackieJokeman	May 14th, 2004 06:31:34 PM
"Lets get back to the issue at hand... holding back the freedom of a movie in a free country, and not go there calling people names like all Germans being Nazi... In my country.. a *free country... that sort of name calling is considered uncivilized, and might get you in contact with the police...*" HAHAHAHA Please tell me you meant to do that.
$36mil by u.k. star	May 14th, 2004 06:49:53 PM
the box office worldwide was $36mil a significant sum for a docu. and they made a lot more from dvds and tv rights, sorry i don't have a figure for that.
Ancient Lights...please!!!!!! by TedSallis	May 14th, 2004 06:54:58 PM
Blaming the British for the state of the Middle East??? C'mon, you know the League of Nations, including the US (President Wilson in paticular) had a bit to do about that too..and while you're at it, why not blame the Turks, THEIR the ones who repessed that part of the world for so long! C'mon people.
Give me a fucking break, TedSallis...Spain caved in, PERIOD. by Big Dumb Ape	May 14th, 2004 07:12:19 PM
You said (quote): "As soon as the Terror attack happened they (ie. the Spanish population) KNEW the western media (Right agenda media) would seize on this as the Spanish public pandering to Al-Qaeda." Gee, maybe that impression was left on everyone because PRIOR to the bombing EVERY poll that was reported by Spanish newspapers -- and likewise taken by other global news organizations watching the election such as CNN, the Washington Post, etc -- ALL showed that Anzar and party were leading and all but coasting to reelection. Then the trains blow up, Al Qaeda literally issues a statement that SAYS "You'll get more of this if you don't stop supporting the U.S."...and wow! What a shock! Suddenly Zapatero...the man of no spine...is in power ready to suck Al Qaeda dick in appeasement. This had nothing to do with Fox news or "Right" Western media mireading ANYTHING. Zapatero ran on a platform simply summed up as "Dear Al Qaeda and Islamic radicals, please leave us alone and in exchange I promise you that as long as I'm in power I'll make Spain stand off to the side so you kill whoever you want, so long as it's in OTHER countries."
The Ram: "Basically what this comes down to is you believe any c by Commando Cody	May 14th, 2004 07:26:44 PM
You say that like it's a BAD thing. But it's not -- it's a perfectly legitimate stance. Sorry, but at times of "crisis" -- which I would certainly define as an unprovoked 9/11 incident that literally leaves thousands of civilians dead -- I have absolutely NO problem with carpet bombing a regime like the Taliban out of existence, for no other reason then to send tthe message to terrorists everywhere "Sorry, you fuckers can't even be allowed to exist. Get the fuck off this planet." I agree with Ancient Lights on this, the Taliban regime really was THAT evil and simply needed to go. But more importanly, they were undeniably harboring Osama Bin Laden and his minions, and steadfastly refused to cooperate in turning him over despite repeated diplomatic overtures, as well as an outcry after 9/11 not only from the U.S. but the world community at large. So as far as I'm concerned, any Taliban officials or soldiers who died in American bombing raids got what they deserved and can rot in Hell.
Big Dumb Ape...where do you get your information????? by TedSallis	May 14th, 2004 07:32:51 PM
What the hell are you talkin about??? Anzar was about the LEAST popular politician in the entire European content. "Coasting to re-election?? If anything it was a damn close race.Where are these poll results? Can you show me? Do you know any Spanish nationals? The majority of the Spanish electorate opposed Anzars policies! What Bullshit!!!
Actually, let's look at it another way. A "WHAT IF" of where we by Commando Cody	May 14th, 2004 07:36:40 PM
Sorry, I hit send when a thought just occurred to me, short and sweet that sums up my stance. In defense of bombing the Taliban out of existence, I just said "More importantly, they were undeniably harboring Osama Bin Laden and his minions and steadfastly refused to cooperate in turning him over despite repeated diplomatic overtures as well as an outcry after 9/11 not only from the U.S., but the world community at large." That's all TRUE. That's a FACT. So in terms of the Iraq War -- regardless which side you stand on today -- IMAGINE turning back the clock and how different history would have been and how MANY lives would have been spared if only those fuckers...I mean, the Taliban...HAD responded to U.S. and U.N. demands to turn over Bin Laden when they DID have him not only there in Afghanistan, but KNEW where he was and could have easily captured him and turned him over to world authorities. Think where this whole war on international terror would be today -- how different life would be TODAY -- if only back then the Taliban HAD done the right thing. Sorry, but the more and more I think about it, especially in those terms, I really do hope any Taliban officials, soldiers or supporters are dead and burning for eternity in Hell. And once they're charbroiled, those fucks deserve to live in pain and burn all over AGAIN...
ram: amazing, now i'm a racist by DMented	May 14th, 2004 07:39:45 PM
Look, in my anger at stoopid's post I may have insulted quite a few more Europeans than I intended. For that I apologize. But ram, you have one seriously fucked up way of 1) looking at things and 2) twisting words. I wasn't "answering" criticisms of US policy with criticisms of British policy, I was suggesting that you are exactly as complicit in that policy as I am in Bush's -- which is to say not at all. I'm not suggesting the rest of the world solve OUR problem for US, I'm suggesting the problem is not ours alone. Just as Hitler wasn't the UK's, or France's. Long before 9/11 many people were worried about the eventual consequences of a very angry subset of the Arab population with a lot of funding, and belief system that guarantees entry into Heaven for murdering the enemies of Allah. Are you comfortable with people like this running around? Or do you just love playing holier than thou all damn day? If you believe it's okay for a country to provide any kind of sanctuary terrorists, yes, you are indeed part of the problem. We'll just proceed along the path that will save more innocent lives without your permission, if that's okay. And I wouldn't get in the fucking way if I were you. Not lecturing you on terrorism, but for someone who's been suffering for decades, you retain an amazingly liberal attitude toward fighting it. Countries cannot be allowed to harbor terrorist regimes, period. They're depending on liberal fools to give them a shield, it can't be allowed to go on. Exactly when did I excuse racially profiling Arab-Americans? I simply said we're in a position where it seems our options are either that, or accepting a constant state of vulnerability. Based on the fact that we don't have any Arab concentration camps, it seems we've chosen the latter. And having many Muslim friends, that is actually just fine with me. To use your words, what the fuck are you on about. Once again, do you expect me to take some kind of responsibility for money from the US that wound up in the IRA's hands? I wouldn't condone terrorism in any form, but why would the IRA even exist if the UK was as imperialism-free as you claim? Better take in some 12-stepper meetings for recovering imperialists, yeah? You seemed to have lapsed a few times this century. I think your concerns about the US's sense of manifest destiny are just a little paranoid. When we start invading countries not run by homicidal maniacs, feel free to sweat. Oh yeah, not to correct you on the Mother Tongue, but I'm pretty sure even in the Queen's English it's spelled "decimated."
Hurry up Big Dumb Ape..search online for your election info!!!!! by TedSallis	May 14th, 2004 07:41:30 PM

Arab != Muslim by DMented	May 14th, 2004 08:00:31 PM
Oh yeah, and before our helpful European friends decide to try slapping on some more "ugly American" labels, yes I do realize there's a difference between "Arab" and "Muslim." Since you seem to take every other opportunity to trash America and Americans, figured I'd just head that one off at the fucking pass. Please, return to your siestas.
The Ram by Mr. Pink2003	May 14th, 2004 08:41:40 PM
"Does anyone really think the USA is the best country to lead the world? That if someone else was in power, the world would be far worse off?" Yes, I do. Prove me wrong,sport..tell me who you want running the the show and don't puss out with all of that "one big united world" bullshit. Tell me who you want with the missiles and the SDI and the trade power? Who? and then tell me why they fucking deserve it any more than any other country (Like the U.S., for example). And if your answer is "the U.S. picks on other countries, that not fair!" then you are a larger and more clueless boob than I thought.
sleep tight, ram, you silly fucker by DMented	May 14th, 2004 08:52:47 PM
Yeah, actually I DID mean we'll save more American lives. I can think of worse reasons for Americans to go to war (like oil, for one). And I think it's clear that whether or when Northern Ireland became part of the British Isles ... it did not stop the British from imposing a system, a way of life, that good deal of the natives didn't appreciate. Sort of what you silly bitches are accusing the US of doing in Iraq. * Never said Iraqi or Afghani lives were unimportant. Again, you're trying to twist my meaning to create an argument you can win. But that's ok, very few who post here are dumb enough to fall for it -- probably not even you, you're just a fucking whiner by nature and don't like to revealed as such. It's been said up and down this thread, civilian casualties are unavoidable in war, and regrettable. However, those Iraqis who were pointing guns at US troops? Fuck 'em. * The US can't fix the whole fucking planet, and we're far from perfect. But the fact is, we're not responsible for every gangster that fills a power vacuum. The people of that country who allow that gangster to remain in power through cowardice -- they're responsible. Hey, taking responsibility for your own local politics, how bout THAT? What a fucking novel idea. But there's always a ton of stupid whiney bitches who keep expecting us to fix the whole world. We're the Daddy figure you just realized wasn't omniscient and omnipotent. Time to grow up, children. Stop wetting the fucking bed and clean your own fucking house. * Just curious: did your terrorists saw the heads off innocent civilians? Because we might just be dealing with two different kinds of people here. Maybe our kind will be slightly less receptive to negotiation. Maybe our kind more resembles a psychotic Hitler than, say, Bobby Sands. And I seem to remember the UK et al convincing us that Hitler was indeed our problem. Did you forget the lesson you taught us? * As to the spelling: if you can draw all kinds of conclusions about someone based on their citizenship, I can draw whatever fucking conclusions I want based on your inability to spell. I'm pretty fucking sure that at 1,2 or even 5 in the morning I know how to spell "decimated." But please, keep trying to help your backward former colony with your sage advice, it's much appreciated.
You are absolutely right, ram by greenleaf	May 14th, 2004 11:47:23 PM
On the whole... And I might add the whole "moral high ground" position of the current US admisitration is (of course) either a ridiculous pretense to legitimize the pre-emptive war (i.e. spending billions of dollars to free Iraqis and make the world a safer place... sure), or a scary notion ("the Bush Jihad"). Either way it's a load of crap which most Europeans can never buy (again). For some reason, we the infantile North-Americans believe we're somewhat different that the lot of you... better, if you like, and our governments are sure as hell going to exploit that. It makes me sick. I'm just a simple citizen, but for all I know, and as far as I'm concerned, the situation in the world is worsening, and the current course of action and foreign policy of the US has everything to do with it. On a side-note, I'm surprised no one mentioned the Saudis along with Spain and Afghanistan (I believe that is precisely what Moore is trying to point out in that movie of his).
I'm born again! by TesticleTom	May 15th, 2004 01:41:33 AM
I just want everyone to know that after a couple days of vacation I had a long time to think about the interesting and intelegent things that people like the ram and stoopid had to say and I thought long and hard on it. I just want you all to know that I realize I have been brainwashed but now with the help of these very wise people, I finally understand! I want to share with all of you nazi faciast pieces of crap what I have come to realize..... 1-I now believe that it makes total sense to hand over at least half of my paycheck to the government as long as it means I get more free things from my government. 2-I also have realized that it is a womans choice, being their bodies, to kill whatever is inside them, because that is their choice, it's their body and it makes total sense that they should be able to do what they want to it. 3- I have also realized that most of us don't know what is best for ourselves. Conservatives are under some kind of illusion. They think they want less control of the government, but it's obvious what they really want is total government control! It's so clear to me now! In reality, if we make everything seem legal, and as long as nobody seems visibly hurt, then I think we should only vote for a government that truly does stay out of our personal choices and how we want to live, or at least it should SEEM that way... I mean, if we pay far more taxes, then I truly believe a liberal leadership in the goverment will take care of us, and keep us safe, and make us at least feel like we are free to do anything as long as nobody is getting hurt. Why can't it be that way people?!?! That's truly the way it should be! 4- Get ready for this! I now think that we should never enter any conflict unless we have 100% of the worlds aproval to do so. I think as long as we stick only to diplomacy, even if it takes decades, that makes a lot more sense than taking a life. We should only be allowed to kill a terrorist if we catch them in the act! Killing is wrong!!! (unless of course it's a womans 'lifeless' embryo).... The Bush administration has to go. It doesn't matter how bad kerry is and that nobody understands what he really stands for, as long as it gets that faciast insensetive warmongering prick Bush out of office, then I will vote for kerry, I know he will keep us safe withhout ever hurting as many people. Finally I just want you all to know I have realized that there is no god, and if there is, there is no christian god, because christians are the cause of all of this faciast (oh it feels so good to finally be the GIVER of that word, since I am reformed and sensetive!) We need to make out anyone that believes in any type of god a complete moron because religion is the true evil in this world causing the most harm. As soon as we can take religion out of Americans, I think America will be a truly great nation. Until then, America is just being run by this sick Christian ideal pushing itself on the whole world. The only religious people we should leave alone and respect are the muslims, they are so rich in culture and so loving. I read the koran and it is truly a book of love, unlike those hateful christians. Why can't we just leave the Muslims alone? Who cares if they perform what we percieve to be barbaric acts? It's their business isn't it? As long as they aren't doing it to me then let them do it! Obviously that is how they want to live, to be subjected by dictators and enslaved, if that's their CHOICE then we should let them! Right?!? Who cares if most of the people don't know any better, it's still their choice and we need to be more about CHOICE! Leave those people alone! And let the Israeli's deal with it themselves! Let's just get out of the rest of the world and worry about ourselves and how we can make people feel more free to do what they want and have the government give us more 'free' services! Bush is a liar, he only wants war glory. 9/11 was nothing but a carefully planed out U.S. conspiracy to give us an excuse to go to war. I hate Bush, I hate conservatives and from now on, anyone that does not agree with the above, I will label a 'FACIAST' and make completely ilogical comparisons to Nazi's!!! Well I could go on, but I suddenly have this really strong urge to study mid 20th century Russian philosophy.......
slogan by allhailthomyorke	May 15th, 2004 02:38:59 AM
I think they should just try being honest with the American people for once (yeah right) and go with "Watch us fuck up this country for another 4 years!"
Good for you TesticleTom by greenleaf	May 15th, 2004 02:52:07 AM
TesticleTom has discovered sarcasm and wanted to share it with all of us. You go little boy. Next time you'll do better. (Moron.)
To Greenleaf by TesticleTom	May 15th, 2004 03:43:14 AM
==Next time you'll do better. (Moron.)== Greanleaf, are you calling my newly discovered political enlightenment moronic? That's pretty un-compassionate of you. I thought you cared about other people? You know name calling leads to hate, and hate leads to conservatism, and we all know conservatism is the dark side. I would pray for you but I don't belive in a god, because no god would ever allow bush the anti-christ to run his promised land...I would put your name on shrine in hopes your hate will not develop, but sadly all the shrines I know of were taken down because they were deemed 'religious' and were on government property. You know that kind of name calling really reminds me of when the Nazi's called the Jews all kinds of mean hurtful things, and we all know where that lead. My old self would want to call you a biggot, for labeling me a moron. My old self would want to shout at you telling you that you are fasciast, because obviously you are very fasciast. But luckily for you I have discovered compassion and I only feel sad for you and hope you can learn to love and not hate, like I have.
Jackiejokeman by Papageno	May 15th, 2004 04:35:45 AM
Ok... Laugh when I said that calling someone a nazie just because he speaks German could get you in contact with the police. I wasn't implying to put out a warrent on Happy Harry.... I was trying to make a point. I am new to forums, and only because of this thread I found out what a troll is... I will no longer pay attention to Mr. Happy Harry. I do believe its funny how a movie forum has turned out to become a political arena. The last 12 hours have brought out far less abuse, and much more political ideas and opinions, and wasn't that just what all the fuss was about? One company holding back a movie wich might anger one political party, wich happens to have relations with those who offer tax-breaks to said company...
gullibles. you dirty yankee gullibles. by all	May 15th, 2004 06:06:51 AM
stop doing what you're told, dirty yankees, you're making the world worse. you powerless do-what-you're-told-ers.
Ram is right, Middle East countries are mostly fucked up because by darth_billy	May 15th, 2004 08:57:15 AM
The thing about the US, is that they are as fucked up as anyone from Al'Qaeeda. Just that the US have better propaganda machines. It's that simple. If anyone is telling me that some of the Shit that the US have pulled makes them more civilised than any terrorist organisation, then they are self delusionary. I mean let's talk, Atomic bombs on Hiroshima, Nagasaki. Burning Japanese cities in WWII. Napalm in Vietnam, (and tons of other shit). Cambodia. Arming and supporting tyrants throughout the world. Reopening diplomnatic ties with Iraq, after the Gassing of the Kurds in Halabja. 10s of thousands of dead Iraqis in Gulf War II. The list goes on. It's just that the US uses words like democracy, freedom, and the US public lap it up. The US are responsible for far more deaths than Al'Qaeeda, but AlQaueeda don't have the sense to hide behind gimmicks and PR.. . . I mean, unlawfual combatants, what the??
the_ram, darth_billy: deluded eurotrash by DMented	May 15th, 2004 10:47:10 AM
ram, you are so packed tight full of shit it's spewing out your mouth. Since you obviously don't have the sense to know when to shut the fuck up, here goes: I didn't have to go back to Henry VIII to point out what a hypocritical bitch you are. That may have been when the problem between Britain and Ireland began, but the UK held onto its little colonies pretty tightly for quite a while thereafter, didn't it? Well into this century, wouldn't you agree? By your logic, the US is free of any guilt regarding slavery after the point when it was first instituted. Or maybe we're guilt free after 1865 when it officially ended, and we should ignore all the civil rights abuses that have taken place since then? You just don't seem to have a basic grasp of logic. Is it the fucking water over there, or what? It's like arguing with my grandmother. * You like to delude yourself that America is a less-evolved version of the UK, that we're making mistakes you once did but are now far too wise to make. Yeah, which is why Blair supports what the US is doing. It's such a huge mistake, but our older, wiser pals in the UK are making it right along with us. And while everyone's ripping the US on the abuse of Iraqi prisoners, take a gander at this article, where it's suggested that UK soldiers have done similar things (http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD /meast/05/09/britain.abuse.bla ir/index.html). Maybe it'll be easier to understand why your own soldiers aren't immune to righteous anger at some of the evil, murdering bastards we now have in custody. Don't get me wrong, I think abusing these prisoners demeans us. But then, I don't have to look a murderer in the face every day after losing friends to others like him. * I'm sorry, what atrocities are you talking about exactly? Can you show me an example of a US soldier sawing the head off an Iraqi civilian? Or maybe flying a plane into a populated office building with no military personnel whatsoever? Help me out, I'm just an American, so I'm rather confused. Can you show me ANY ONE FUCKING EXAMPLE of a US soldier brutally, deliberately murdering an Iraqi civilian? God knows the US has done its share of horrible things, but darth_billy's inane statement that we're just like al Qaeda, like the statements of most 12-year-olds, doesn't even deserve a response. * And once again, ram, you've put words in my mouth. When did I call Iraq evil? I'd happily apply that word to Saddam Hussein, who has dropped human beings in machines designed for shredding plastic. But unlike you, I realize you can't generalize about the entire population of a country. * You may not like the truth, but inability to spell can be a valid indicator of intelligence. Not to mention reading comprehension, which you obviously need to work on as well. Oh yeah, and basic logic, which seems to have failed you with that UK/Ireland argument. But I'll be sure to let all my African-American friends know they shouldn't be angry about sitting in the back of the bus 35 years ago, because white folks have been pronounced guilt-free by you!
Hey stoopid by DMented	May 15th, 2004 12:43:58 PM
Amazing rebuttal to things I never said. Well done. When did I defend Rumsfeld's little speech, exactly? When did I defend Iraqi prisoner abuse? When did I say we won all our wars? Don't answer, there is no answer, it didn't fucking happen. I'm supposed to listen to the arguments of people like you who obviously aren't dealing with reality? Are you posting from a rubber room? You say you don't hate Americans, but keep saying Americans are a laughing stock -- again, lumping all Americans into one huge pile. And yes, baiting us -- because the truth is you are an impotent little jerkoff who thinks it's cool to take an anti-war stance in every circumstance and take potshots at someone who exacerbates your inferiority complex. Sometimes war is justified. I'm not going to say I know for certain this war is, because that would assume I have all the information Bush does. Obviously governments pick and choose what they tell their citizens, and the rest of the world. It could all be about oil. But I'm pretty sure about one thing: Saddam Hussein is a murdering, evil bastard who should have been taken out in the first Gulf War. I know Iraqis who say exactly this. So whatever the reasons for this war, if he's no longer in power, some good was done. * You say, "The difference is that Brits don't deny the millions we massacred in the queens name." AGAIN, assuming that ALL Brits feel that way and ALL Americans do not. Generalizing. Not. Reality. Even when on this very discussion board we have weak-kneed self-hating pussies like Greenleaf, US citizens who are just dying to suck the cock of any European who criticizes the US. Pathetic. Wipe your mouth, bitch. * stoopid, your logic is just as fuzzy as ram's. But that doesn't surprise me, I'm sure there are a ton of Euro-losers who jump on every talkbalk remotely dealing with US foreign policy, just to make Americans feel guilty for the actions of a government they can't control. If it makes me somehow less culpable for all those Iraqi deaths, I didn't vote for Bush. *** And I'm sure as hell not gonna be embarassed because some fool made a movie that skewed the truth about the Old West. Just like I won't blame you if someone in the UK makes a film where you had a fucking brain.
Omigosh, I'm so filled with hate! Somebody stop me by DMented	May 15th, 2004 01:32:33 PM
Yep, I said all those things. If the label fits, wear it. You've been owned, but thanks for the Michael Moore-style, edit-out-of-sequence retrospective of my posts you provided before capitulating. You start a fight but don't have the balls to finish ... sounds oddly familiar. * Yeah, my personal fortune financed the IRA all those years. But I want my fucking money back because your house is still standing. Successful Irish-Americans contributed to the IRA, dope. Evidently the Irish weren't as worthless as you tried to make them feel. Far as I know, the US government didn't contribute to the IRA, and truth be told, neither did I. So once again, please try to stay on this plane of existence with the rest of us, okay? Don't float away on me. * Guess I'm not surprised you think the Web is the entire Internet. I didn't say we created the Web, I said we created the Internet -- and we did indeed develop the basis for it. Tim Berners-Lee invented the HTTP protocol, but it was the U.S. government that created the ARPAnet, which became the Internet. It was an American company, BBN, that invented the packet-switching technology that made the ARPAnet possible. Read a book, dumbass. *** Enjoy your song contest there, fruitcake. Come on back when you grow a pair.
Nazi? by TesticleTom	May 15th, 2004 01:55:10 PM
I called someone a nazi because they were german? Well that's news to me. I was simply throwing out the word 'fasciast' and 'nazi' because they seem to have a new deffinition these days, basically anyone who does not agree with europe/liberals is a fasciast uncompasionate nazi. But never fear, now that I am a liberal I can call other people fasciast nazi's with impunity. Stoopid, darth, ram, you are all very convincing. In fact, the more I read your posts and realize that they are true, I want my government to totally colapse and start over. I feel so guilty for being american. I feel so guilty for the state of evil we have put on the world. I hope we can rise up and just destroy our government and start from scratch, thats how I feel now. Americans are just evil and we should all be vanquished unless we are willing to agree with Europe. Oh and DMented, you said you didn't vote for Bush, I am curious as to who you are voting for this time?
the_ram ... bler by DMented	May 15th, 2004 02:53:36 PM
"I couldn't quite extract meaning" ... yes, it's been established you have a problem with reading comprehension. As far as the photos go ... who cares? How many fucking times does it need to be said that no one's defending that prisoner abuse? Jesus Christ ... I'll say again, I'm not the biggest fan of the US government, but your rambling generalizations are just plain ridiculous. "torture of thousands upon thousands of, largely innocent, people around the world" ... WHO? WHEN? How exactly do you know which percentage were innocent? WHY would we torture an innocent, exactly? I assume you acknowledge even evil American bastards like myself need a reason to torture people, right? * Please refresh my memory, when did I say that you were an Imperialist? You can feel as fucking guilty as you want about your government, it's no concern of mine. But if you want me to feel guilty, start holding your fucking breath now, please. Excellent fabrications. Why deal with facts when it's so much more fun to make shit up, right? * "By the way, glad you recognised that you can
Oh Pinky, pinky...... by WeedyMcSmokey	May 15th, 2004 03:53:39 PM
Neo-Realism is not a philosophical term, but a reference to a political ideology - simply 'new realism'. Look up realist (the final extension of politics is war). And I'm glad to see that human nature has finally been defined, clearly sir you're the resident expert. Much like a good number of your countrymen you seem to suffer from an arrogance that blinds you from coming to the most simplest of conclusions about the rest of the world: 1. We're more alike than different. 2. Everybody essentailly wants the same things. 3. Your ways are your ways - there is no better, no scale of ranking, no third party judgement - in your model 'best' is whatever the result of history proclaims it as. Your view is simply a organization of your prejudices. Of course, just an opinion. Oh and if you're judging people by user nics, my god that's as inane and baseless as your 'dominant species' rant.
come ON, stoopid by DMented	May 15th, 2004 03:59:53 PM
You're right, we should just trust everyone detained in Iraq to confess any past crimes or loyalties upon apprehension. I'm sure they'll be completely honest with us. That way, we can show them exactly how foolish and vulnerable to terrorism we really are. What would happen if, in our rush to release these prisoners, we accidentally released a cold-blooded killer terrorist who later killed more US soldiers? Or civilians? I'm sure there would be such an outpouring of support from our European neighbors. But more of ours would still be dead. Well, I guess if that happens, they're only American lives after all, not very important, and at least we'll have preserved the liberties of a people that couldn't preserve their own. And most importantly, we will have gained your approval. If someone had only thought to ask those gentlemen boarding those planes, "Do you intend to take over this plane and crash it into a building?" they would surely have responded in the affirmative. We could have just asked them to leave and the whole situation would have been avoided. We Americans can be ever so foolish, please excuse. We're trying to be better at this civilization thing, please be patient until we come up to your level.
Read, damn me? Ok, LOL by DMented	May 15th, 2004 04:23:37 PM
Okay I get it now stoopid, you've gotta be a rebellious teenager to be so dramatic. But you have an interesting idea of torture. I'd call that mistreatment, definitely, but not every prisoner beating qualifies as torture. Has it occurred to you to question the man's veracity? He did, after all, claim to have had a vision that foretold the exact amount of time he'd be at Guantanamo. You are one gullible sonofabitch. His faith had him rejecting such evils of Western society as McDonalds hamburgers. Has it occurred to you that he's been conditioned to hate Western society, and he'll not only view everything through those eyes, but maybe even invent a few things to make the US look even worse? But I guess the only liars on this planet are Americans and their presidents. Interestingly, your post doesn't at all deal with why this man was there, what he may have been accused of. I'm not saying I know whether he's lying or not, but doesn't that seem relevant to you?
I'm sorry, TesticleTom by greenleaf	May 15th, 2004 06:52:32 PM
You bore me. I like Nicole21 better. Have you met Nicole21? She says I'm a Communist. Sorry I called you a moron. Won't happen again. (Douchebag.)
Cowards and Ass Clowns!!! by Pageiv	May 16th, 2004 03:54:53 AM
I know it is pointless to write in this talkback. But for all those that say those that support the war are the evil ones while they chop heads off and bomb relief workers and those buildings schools, I can only say, I hope you all grow up. Moore calls the terrorists we fight, "Freedom fighters" he is an assclown to the extreme. Did anyone forget 9/11? And if there was no connection between Iraq and al Qaeda then why are there so many al Qaeda running around in Iraq? I mean, since the war started we sent troops to Liberia and Haiti and in both places there are no terrorists attacks, which would lead me to guess there is no connection between Liberia and Haiti with al Qaeda. Here is the example of the freedom fighters Moore is cheering on: "Translation from Arabic: Text from the original web site Sheik Abu Mosaab Alzarqawi slaughters an American by his own hands and promises Bush More A declaration to the nation Praise to Allah who will make Moslems victorious and pagans losers Nation of Islam; Glad tidings. Dawn is approaching and the winds of victory are blowing. We were honored in Falouja by a victory and the credit goes to Allah alone. Nation of Islam; There is no excuse for not fighting. How could a free Moslem sound asleep as he watches Islam being slaughtered and the bleeding of dignity, the pictures of shame and satanic humiliation of Moslem men and women in Abi Ghuraib prison? Where is your jealousy and rage for the religion of Allah? Where is your the revenge for them? You, Scholars if Islam, we complain about you to Allah. The youth of Islam are humiliating the strongest power in history. Cannot you learn from them? Cannot you learn from them how to sacrifice? You are like women who know nothing but wailing and weeping. Some of you are calling on the free people of the world, others are begging Kofi Anan and Amr Mousa, others are calling for peaceful demonstrations as if they have not read the verse;
by TesticleTom	May 16th, 2004 04:02:14 AM
Ok stoopid, I would say about 20% of that story you posted, if true, is probably un called for and maybe a little extreme. It's an interesting story, but any jackass could make up any thing they wanted about any experience they wanted especially if they had an agenda. Prison life sucks. Especially for international terrorists. It isn't meant to put a smile on your face, it's meant to be hell. There are innocent people in every prison unfortunately, it's just going to happen, and Guantanamo is no exception. But don't forget that the majority of people in prison, and in Guantanamo are the worst of the worst. Maybe if you read some of their rap sheets about what some of them had done you wouldn't feel so bad for them. Raping and torturing people to such a level that they no longer deserve any rights as a human, because they fall into the category of subhuman. Has nothing to do with their religion or their race, they just aren't human any more and after what some of them have done, they are lucky to be treated like dogs. This is all besides the point though, because your story has about as much credibility as people claiming to be abducted by UFO's. Both of which, are extremely disgusting and shocking stories that deserve worldwide attention if they are true. But sadly, we probably never will know if they are.
Weed... by Mr. Pink2003	May 16th, 2004 08:49:36 AM
If you are going to make up a word that doesn't appear in the queen's English, then please define it at the time of hurling it. As for judging people by their on-line tags, I guess I could judge them by their use of grammar...that might be "the most simplest of conclusions". Oh and by the way it isn
oh and weed.... by Mr. Pink2003	May 16th, 2004 09:09:05 AM
By your inane logic (there is no better or best, there is simply everything on one big even playing field) then I submit to you, why do you work (I assume that you do)? Why does humanity need, and has always needed laws? Why do you strive for anything in your life (I also assume you do)? I'll bet the answer is because 1) to acquire material needs and wants (like that computer you are pecking on) 2) because if there was a moral equivalency, as you claim, murder, rape and other "crimes" (I know you probably hate that word-so judgmental!) would not be cultural taboos across the world. "All being equal", who's to say a child molester is any better or worse than a saint? Well, I
you 're so stooopid by DMented	May 16th, 2004 12:17:51 PM
You begin your series of posts by calling America the laughingstock of the world, but say my insults have destroyed my credibility. I never had any credibility with you to begin with! No American who disagrees with you does. Not that we care, mind you. * No, I read just about the entire post but missed that ... I'm getting bleary-eyed from reading all the bullshit you and the other members of the "Smite America" Movement are posting. Lot of whiny bitches out there! I'm actually pretty sick of listening, since it's obvious you have some psychological need to "fight the power" even when the power is really just another group of human beings who are trying to do the right thing, but are almost as imperfect as you. Believe it or not, I have other things to do than deal with your teenaged angst and rebellion. That's your Mommy and Daddy's job, or maybe your shrink's, or your pharmaceutical company's, and God help them all. * I've said it several times, it's possible the US is doing this just for oil. It's also possible that some of the prisoners being held are innocent. The difference is, you assume we're so evil that we enjoy detaining innocents. What I'm saying is, due to the nature of terrorism, it's difficult to determine who's innocent and who isn't. * But the fact that you interpreted my post to mean that people who don't eat McDonalds are terrorists shows what a fantasy world you live in, how you can't follow a logical argument -- or choose not to. Anybody who's curious, just check my post (or seach the page for McDonalds till you find it), and you can see what I actually wrote. This guy is trying so fucking hard to beat down anyone who disagrees with him that logic and truth are beside the point. Yet it's Americans who ignore the truth, right? Right. I've seen more spin in your posts than in a year of Bush press conferences. * Tell me to go away all you want. You may have noticed, we don't do what we're told by our European neighbors. Especially when they're stoopid.
To Weedy McSmokey-Read this First by Mr. Pink2003	May 16th, 2004 01:28:51 PM
Mr. Mcsmokey, After my last posting I thought about a few things and wanted apologize for my unwarranted attack on your grammar. You express yourself in English far better, I assure you, than I converse in any other language. My attack was purely bred out of emotion and does nothing to validate my argument and does much to degrade the conversation we are having. It is often difficult to remain unemotional when you see people arguing over what color the house is when it
Excellent point, ram by DMented	May 16th, 2004 01:36:41 PM
You say pointing out your spelling mistakes is immature, then call me a five-year-old in the next sentence. Way to unmake your point! Do you realize what a portrait of yourself you're painting? lol * You still haven't pointed out exactly where I called you an Imperialist, um ... because it didn't happen? I was talking about the UK, not you personally, and I'm pretty sure anyone else reading the post would have caught that. Way to go, flash. * The basis for the photos being called fake, as I understand it, is a claim BY YOUR GOVERNMENT that a vehicle in one of the photos was never in Iraq. If my government had made that claim, I'd have my doubts, but it's interesting how you've taken that at face value. And EVEN IF they are fake, it doesn't disprove the allegations against UK soldiers, merely removes the photographic evidence. The Red Cross' report on UK soldiers abusing prisoners wasn't based on those photos, which may or may not be fake. And EVEN IF the UK soldiers are completely innocent, my only points were that 1) whiny Eurobitches should substantiate their claims about the hordes of innocents whose lives the US has recently destroyed, and 2) maybe human nature is common to all humans, even UK soldiers. AGAIN, not excusing any prisoner abuse, but guarding killers who hate you doesn't engender warm fuzzy feelings in most. * I confess to my typo. Much like my government, I'm not perfect. But there are two types of spelling mistakes: a typo, which is just a slip of the keyboard; and a real, honest-to-goodness, i-have-no-fucking-idea-how-to- spell-this-word error. Mine was the first type. Your "dessimated" is the second. * Lastly, let me explain one thing to you: very few incarcerated people claim to be guilty, and terrorists don't all wear a team jacket so we can easily identify them. And the process of determining to ANY extent at all who's dangerous and who's innocent takes time. There's no excuse for incarcerating someone for years with no proof of guilt. But if you're demanding the release of ALL these prisoners RIGHT NOW, you're a complete and utter ass whose foolishness would cost more lives. * I'm pretty sure even you wouldn't claim I approved of racial profiling anywhere in my posts. Or has your dissociation from reality progressed that far? * It basically comes down to this: I don't think the US government is NOT full of shit, and I don't think they're innocent. But I'm sick of European dipshit liberals who are just looking for a fucking parade to March in, making America out to be the next Nazi Germany. ***
Stoopid by Mr. Pink2003	May 16th, 2004 01:37:30 PM
Would you please site where you got the story info you quote in your last post regarding the released prisoner. Thanks.
what a zinger, stoopid by DMented	May 16th, 2004 01:44:28 PM
I'm sure three people from Scotland got a huge laugh at that one. Please keep taking your meds.
Yeah, terrorists are FLOCKING to Iraq by greenleaf	May 16th, 2004 02:27:46 PM
And thriving there. Guess why.
stoopid & my KKK membership by DMented	May 16th, 2004 03:32:10 PM
Yes, I can see how my clear opposition to racial profiling and unfortunate hesitation to believe every Muslim over every white man would lead you to believe I'm a member of the KKK. You don't jump to too many conclusions, do you? So why shouldn't everybody just march in your silly fucking parade? You can burn Bush in effigy and have a great old time. Grow up, you little fool. *** Now please take your meds or I'll have to ask your doctor to cut off your Web access.
link to observer... by Mr. Pink2003	May 16th, 2004 04:32:03 PM
Stoopid says..."If you try and badmouth the observer newspaper you might as well bury your head in the sand for the rest of your lives." Very interesting statement, that. So you believe every word this paper prints? I'll read, I'll research and I'll make up my own damn mind if this is a valid, honest reporting of news or a slanted piece of propaganda, myself. I highly suggest the rest of you do the same. I may not be the one with my head in the sand.
Ancient Lights by DMented	May 16th, 2004 04:44:45 PM
I'm very disappointed in your last post. I've read your posts with interest, and while many of my own have been considerably less restrained, I don't think I've expressed "views" that differ so greatly from your own. I believe I've said it several times by now: I'm not pro-Bush, but I'm not as quick to condemn the actions of the US as stoopid and ram. The fact that I've had to post that same fact several times -- "I'm not pro-Bush" -- is indication enough that this anti-American fervor is just slightly out of control, and those two are riding the crest of that wave. Any defense of the US, any reasonable doubt, must mean I'm a pro-Bush Republican? OR as stoopid said, a KKK member? Please don't confuse what they've claimed I said with what I've actually said, because I've never seen two people who can twist meaning so completely.
RE: Ancient Lights by DMented	May 16th, 2004 05:20:49 PM
Fair enough, but if you're going to attribute an argumentive stance to me, hopefully it's supported by what I've actually said. At at no point did I defend the abuses at Guantanamo. I called one man's account into question. He's clearly a very devout Muslim -- which means nothing in and of itself -- but what interested me is that he considered McDonalds given to other prisoners as "bribery." Why would he think of it that way, unless he did indeed harbor some kind of "us vs. them" attitude toward the U.S. It doesn't make him a terrorist, but it sure as hell casts some doubt on his account. To say nothing of his "vision" in which a voice (presumably Allah) one year into his incarceration that said he would be released in one more year. Do you find this man credible? *** It's pretty clear that not every claim of abuse by US soldiers is unfounded. But I have a problem with people who take an unfortunate incident, or several, and make it into something to rival Auschwitz, and America into a fearsome Juggernaut the rest of the world needs to stop, before it's too late.
Hey Stoopid by RadioactiveApe	May 16th, 2004 05:47:30 PM
Stoping being so stupid, Stoopid. Geneva Convention does not apply to Al-Quida forces. It is only applicable to identifiable forces (i.e. wearing distinct uniform) from a recognized gov't and engaged in a traditional warfare (i.e. Not sabotage or running around with civilian clothes on). Guerilla fighters, saboteurs, spies, and "partisans" can be shot as soon as they are captured for all Geneva Convention cares.
stoopid, please read more carefully by TesticleTom	May 16th, 2004 10:49:03 PM
I didn't say 20% of that story was probably true, I said that 20% of that story IF true, would be considered outrageous treatment for most prisoners. Most of the stuff in your little propaganda piece is just par for the course for any prison. And the best part is, any prison in more then half the countries in this world would be FAR WORSE. You kids just get all hot and bothered because it is the U.S. and you hold us to a higher standard than the rest of the world.... as you should I suppose. Go ahead, lets hear you throw your favorite word 'fasciast' out one more time.
Let's not go nuts... by allhailthomyorke	May 16th, 2004 11:14:19 PM
No, no one has forgotten 9/11.

Talkbacks

Bob and Harvey buying FAHRENHEIT 9/11 from Disney'