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Herc

3 1/2? by TheDarkShape	Apr 21st, 2004 10:11:41 PM
Hate Connor all you like, it was still a damn good episode.
great ep by jmc8y	Apr 21st, 2004 10:12:56 PM
damn the wb for cancelling this sick show.
the best ending... by JackDonkey	Apr 21st, 2004 10:13:36 PM
would be if everyone dies except spika and angel and their torment of being immortal is portrayed as sucky.
did angel bang eve? by jmc8y	Apr 21st, 2004 10:14:15 PM
i must have missed that one. to go along with the great moments: i liked Ilyria asking if she could keep spike as a pet.
Awesome! by Nekki Basara	Apr 21st, 2004 10:14:56 PM
That was one gorram good episode!
Best line by saareman	Apr 21st, 2004 10:16:12 PM
"Can I keep this one as my pet?" (Illyria about Spike)
Connor sucks? Sure... BUT by Logo Lou	Apr 21st, 2004 10:30:03 PM
Personally I didn't hate Connor THAT much, but he isn't bad at all compared to the ultimate horrible "young son character" that came in and fucked up a series... that would be Jothee from Farscape. He makes Connor look like the Fonz. (Thankfully I think everyone realized this and he was gone fairly quickly).
Connor was actually decent... by Craiggers	Apr 21st, 2004 10:43:22 PM
After re-watching Season 3, I have grown fond of the Connor character. Yes, he does some pretty stupid shit. Yes, he did become annoying at times. His return was much welcomed; it was nice to see a familiar face. And it was nice to see the characer less tense all of the time, and more loose; more jokey. If Connor ever was brought back as a regular (if the show kept going that is), I prefer this one to the whiney, pissed-off, impulsive dumbass he used to be. Come on Holtz, you can train em better than that!
But--but--does he know?? by dancingbean	Apr 21st, 2004 10:47:36 PM
Okay--I LOVED the episode, but I think Joss is gonna make me feel the loss of this show as much as he can for the next 4 episodes. BUT Does Connor know? And if he does know, does Angel knows he knows? I mean, that whole magical barrier thing was there--and nothing was actually said,because every line he said to Angel in the last scene could be taken at least two different ways--leading to either conclusion of him knowing, or not knowing! Oh the mental anguish this show gives me--I want so much more!
amazing ep! by Jarek	Apr 21st, 2004 10:53:10 PM
Damn this show just keeps getting better. RIP Sajon.... glad to see him brought back. Still don't know where this show is going, can't wait to see what's in store. Cancelling it after this season seems like one of the worst moves anyone can make.
Angel and Smallville by Virtual Satyr	Apr 21st, 2004 11:07:56 PM
I liked the ending to Angel tonight...kinda left us wondering about Conner knowing or not knowing...I like ambiguous endings like that. I also like that scene in Smallville, the one where the ripped off Pulp Fiction...yeah that was good. I did like Chloe in that episode though.
He knows. by CynicKil	Apr 21st, 2004 11:17:52 PM
Everyone knows. The point is since Connor has both good and bad memories he can put all the BS he went through in perspective and rightfully NOT want to go there. Hopefully Wes can handle it just as well.
Does he know??? by The Riot	Apr 21st, 2004 11:20:12 PM
arrrgghhh.. Do you need him to wink into the camera?
Connor knows and about Gunn by Xandr37	Apr 21st, 2004 11:23:36 PM
That's why they included Wesley and dead Fred talking about having both sets of memories. Also Hamilton was going to make Gunn an offer but he told him to give the necklace back before he could even make the offer. He knows what happened the last time he made a deal with the senior partners and feels so bad about what happened to Fred because of his actions that he would rather remain in hell.
Wes get his memories back? by Rein	Apr 21st, 2004 11:39:32 PM
Exactly what memories did he lose?
Wes lost what the rest of the gang lost by RogueScribner	Apr 21st, 2004 11:53:41 PM
Any memories that would tie into the existance of Connor. So while Jasmine existed and surely Evil Cordy, he had no memory of Angel smothering him with a pillow (why would he?), or anything else of that nature. He now remembers Angel's hatred of him from a couple of years ago. I'm sure it's all water under the bridge now, though. :p . . . . . . . . . . This ep was good. It was nice to see Connor again. It won't be the last time. L8r
Just keeps getting better... by jtp972	Apr 22nd, 2004 12:16:30 AM
It's so bittersweet to watch these last eps. of "Angel." They just keep topping themselves each week, and to see that while knowing its coming to an end is a weird feeling. "Buffy" was losing steam near the end, so it was an entirely different thing to bear witness to the end then. While I hate the thought of the TV movies w/out Wes, I can only imagine how dramatic Wes' death would be. Wow!! And, in case Angel had any doubt... YOU DO NOT FUCK WITH WYNDHAM-PRYCE!! The scene where he smashed the box with the memories in them (and the flashback that followed) was just the latest in great scene after great scene for Wes. They've really done his character justice lately. If he does die (like the spoilers indicate), it could be a classic TV moment b/c the character has come so far. And I liked Connor in this one. Nice seeing what a likeable kind of geek he's become with a different background. But the best line had to be "rule 3...don't touch my clipboard." Spike with a clipboard! Genius!!
"For releasing me I will grant you three wishes!" by jocutus	Apr 22nd, 2004 12:31:08 AM
I really missed that smartass sahjahn. "He likes to talk - don't let him distract you!" I'm glad they finished him off in style, though. Does Wes not have memories of the whole gang decidign to take over WR&H? Or was he blinded by thoughts of Angel betraying them and Fred being the price paid? And I agree that the new Connor is a definite improvement. Happy, well adjusted, laid back. Cracking wise and fumbling with weapons. lots of small touches all around on this ep, like - C:"I always did have a thing for older women" A:"They were supposed to take care of that."
Connor was orders of magnitude less annoying this time around... by sTalking_Goat	Apr 22nd, 2004 12:37:26 AM
must be the lack of whining. Adam Baldwin was awesome though.
Oh, THOSE memories... by Rein	Apr 22nd, 2004 12:40:45 AM
Ok, it makes sense now. This was a great ep, and is it just me or is Harmony looking hot as hell these days? And Amy Acker looks delicious as that demon chick.
Best Episode of the Season by uther	Apr 22nd, 2004 12:44:17 AM
Herc, remember when you gave Conversations With Dead People like three stars? Yep, you're gonna regret this one, too. FIVE STARS EASY. One of the best episodes ever. I hate the WB.
I think he knows... by sTalking_Goat	Apr 22nd, 2004 12:57:12 AM
nad is trying to supress it. Pretty soon the nightmares will start though
"Fresh episode" by IAmLegolas	Apr 22nd, 2004 01:11:23 AM
Can the WB get any g@y'er?? Who comes up with this crap?
Ok, so ummm... by Rein	Apr 22nd, 2004 01:11:36 AM
Exactly what memories of the past seasons were erased? Did they forget about fighting that demon woman from last season? They obviously didn't forget about making that deal with Wolfram and Hart and about Cordelia going into a coma. Grrrr.
Angel's backbreaker was awesome, Amy and Harmony are looking sup by Big Bad Clone	Apr 22nd, 2004 01:14:56 AM
Man, that ep reminded me how much I liked season 3. Fuck you WB, or maybe having it canceled gets Joss and co. off their asses to give us tv gold (didn't really work for Buffy's ending, but...)?
A good enough episode... by AZCAL	Apr 22nd, 2004 01:24:40 AM
to get me to finally post a feedback after a couple of years. I really couldn't stand the Connor plotline from last season, but now...it was worth every scraped nerve from his whining. There were so many moments, and great paradoxes all wrapped into one, neat, hour long episode. With Wesley, we have him once again not trusting Angel, going off half-cocked and hurting Angel. The first time, he delivered Connor to Holt and ended up with a slit neck. He did it again, and unfortunately we only have three episodes to find out what the effect will be. A great object lesson on the old saying of "if you don't know history, you're doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past." At the same time, we have the Connor arc. Oh yes, he definitely got all his memories back and remembers the 'real' and 'false' lifetimes that he got from Angel's deal. The fortunate thing is that the life he was 'given' was a darn good one, and he was able to see the one point that he always missed in the past - that Angel loves him enough to sacrifice anything he can for Connor. Why didn't he understand that before? It's a statement on unconditional love, and the answers are contained in the script. When the sorcerer tells Angel about Connors 'fake' experience getting lost in a mall, and his father's rescue of him then, it establishes the kind of life and memories Connor now has. When Connor got the memories back, he was able to understand the sacrifice Angel made in giving him that life, and he showed his appreciation of that in the end by going back to that life. Connor's original childhood was anything but full of love, and he blamed Angel for that. Angel made a deal with the devil (W&H) to give Connor that childhood. Great story, and much more deserving of a 5 star rating than any other episode I've seen.
question by whytrytwice	Apr 22nd, 2004 02:01:01 AM
We all know Wes has his memories back and Illyria has Fred's back, but what about Lorne and Gunn?Since they were not in close proximity when the window broke, did they not receive theirs back?
Wes and Lilah by mag7man	Apr 22nd, 2004 02:05:11 AM
I always wondered, if Wes lost all of his memories of how his colleagues abandoned him because of his actions then how did he justify his relationship with bad girl Lilah who he still had feelings for once everything changed? When all memories were reformed, what could have been the 'new' story on that subplot?
awesome... by lynxpro	Apr 22nd, 2004 02:31:33 AM
...and in comparison, Smallville tonight was so damn weak. Mutant Enemy did the unthinkable in my book tonight - they made Connor likeable. I actually liked his character. Amazing. The show keeps on getting better. Although it sure seemed like the Sorceror had hired some of Jabba the Hutt's gang for personal body guards... :) And for those of you that missed Las Vegas on NBC this past Monday, you missed a great episode featuring Angel's Lindsey. Good episode.
Killing People by dagreatgoldwolf	Apr 22nd, 2004 03:01:51 AM
You think WB sucks? JW sucks for killing off Wes in the last episode, especially with his being the best evolved character in the Buffyverse, except for Spike. WB doesn't suck, btw. 7th Heaven and Everwood are damn good shows. As a writer, I gotta say it sucks too kill off characters just to get a reaction out of viewers. It's super-cheap. You don't NEED to kill anyone in the last episode to make it memorable. You just need to make the episode good.
Better than most motion pictures this year, at least by Recognizer	Apr 22nd, 2004 03:05:24 AM
Seriously, this was at least a four-starrer. The kinda-ambiguity at the very end; the completely 900% more fun Connor; Wesley's insight-and-then-it-was-wrong stuff; and frickin' Sahjahn who was hilarious. Plus it was a huge "chickens home to roost" bookend to 4.22, particularly when you see the W&H contract signed by Angel... in blood. Holy shit did this one rock. Herc, reconsider your rating when you sober up from all that crack you seem to have smoked.
Sure NOW Conner doesn't suck by Jinxo	Apr 22nd, 2004 04:00:42 AM
We couldn't get this Conner while he was a REGULAR?!?! As a regular he's a whiney mess. As a one shot guest they go and Scoobify him. It has to be that only those in the immediate vicinity of what happened had their old memories returned to them. Gunn and Lorne are outta luck. And Wes did have reason to be concerned that Angel did something fishy given the evidence. They all decided to join WR&H? Yeah... unless Angel's change to history was that originally they all said no and Angel switched it to them saying yes. Finally... why the hell did this big "spoiler" board go up AFTER the show aired? Oh no. The surprises that aired for all America to see hours ago are spoiled. Huh?
As to killing everyone... by Jinxo	Apr 22nd, 2004 04:11:16 AM
Angel, Spike, Buffy (twice)... even before Angel they killed Cordelia off on Buffy for half an episode. Anyone fearing the big kill-athon... have you never read or watched comic book style stuff before. Death isn't always permanent. Usually more like a short breather. Heck, Joss even had plans to bring Tara back if he could have. And "soul burned up and gone forever" be damned. If the series had been renewed and fans hated and refused to accept the Ilirya plot they could have brought her back too. A little time travel or a trip to a parallel universe and you could get Fred back. Plus the final episode hasn't even aired yet. Context is important to. If Wes goes down with a bad ass cool death that sticks in your head for years and years then its all good. Oh yeah. Almost forgot. The WB sucks.
Great but... by SeptemberDay	Apr 22nd, 2004 07:40:12 AM
Would've been nice to get the spoilage, I don't know, maybe BEFORE 9PM EST...
Phenomenal episode... and I never even LIKED Connor by Roguewriter	Apr 22nd, 2004 08:09:38 AM
What a very bad time for this show to be ending. I don't think we should stand for it. I SAID, I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD STAND FOR IT, PEOPLE!!! ... Wow, that felt powerful. OK, back to the online Everquest and the bottomless box of Little Debbies... (Sigh. I hate Fox. And network television in general.)
So, wouldn't Connor's "parents" also have two sets of memories? by rev_skarekroe	Apr 22nd, 2004 08:13:06 AM
One of a life without Connor? Oh well. As long as they get around to explaining where all those robots from the episode with Wes's Dad came from, I'll be happy. sk
Oh, wait now I remember. by rev_skarekroe	Apr 22nd, 2004 08:13:52 AM
The box only gave back memories to people in close range. Carry on. sk
Death is never final... by downtown393	Apr 22nd, 2004 09:00:14 AM
Just because Wesley might die in the fanil EP, doesn't mean shit. I know a lot of us were ticked when we learned Fred was going to die, but look at the body of the former character now! HOT! (Not sure I follow that one). Wes could become better then ever before after he dies for all we know. Best lines: My clipboard! He makes noise when I hit him. I have a thing for older women/ They were supposed to fix that. And a big F U to the "W" F'ing "B". I won't let my wife watch her favorite shows anymore (7th Heaven and Everwood). The WB will be band from my house. Not renewing Buffy and now this?!?! I can't believe they would rather have another show like 1 tree hill then something that is this good! Down with the Frog! and fuck bugs bunny too! Shh... We should be hunting television executives.. hu huhuhuhu...
HOLY CRAP!!! by Drath	Apr 22nd, 2004 09:04:17 AM
How the Hell? They made me like Connor! Not that I ever wanted to hate him, I just found him unsympathetic and altogether uncompelling as his own character last year. They could have killed him off and I wouldn't have cared. Wow, what a difference a better life can make! 37, Herc? I'm not seeing that. He's definitely off-center, but he didn't look too old for his part. In fact with that hair cut he looks like he's regressing to age 10. And actually that kinda worked. He's an innocent now (although it'd be interesting to see him dealing with the memory of murdering that girl for Jasmine's birth). He even had some of that awkwardness that Buffy had when she was discovering her powers. The actor felt more natural playing it too. I could actually take Connor as a regular/recurring again if they kept it like this (and if there had been a season 6). I like that he seems to know what happened without reverting to Old Connor, but I'd hate it if it turned back into that "can we trust him" vibe again. That didn't work for me, I think it bogged down a whole season, and this was so much better in my mind. I think he worked much better here as somebody we can relate to. Obviously it was impossible last years since the character had no "normal" life to ground him, so that was just a no win situation. They've solved the problem wonderfully, I'm sorry we won't get to see them go anywhere with it. But again, if they were setting up an uncertainty about whether or not Connor might revert to villainy, I wouldn't have liked it. Now as for Wesley, I'm starting to hate this direction they're taking him in. What a ghost of a human being he has become. There had to be more they could have done with him and Fred and his father and the Watchers etc before taking on what feels like a dead man's walk. I'm getting the same "where the hell do we go with this character now" desperate feeling I had from Cordy last year. I'm sorry if it's come to that. Also, where the hell is Lindsey? They make Harmony a regular and show her every week and not him? Shit!
Connor's Return on Origins and his return on the series finale by Electric_Monk	Apr 22nd, 2004 09:15:53 AM
A very good episode. Liked Connor now that he wasn't a whiney-assed teenager, and he does look much older (but, he's what 24 or 25 in real life?). Anyway, look for him to return in the series finale, as some of the questions left unanswered will surely be revealed?
Conner Knows and Wes Should Die...... by kalel62	Apr 22nd, 2004 10:09:26 AM
Conner has to know. He acted differently after Wes broke the box. Since he has all the memories of his good life, he can look at his bad life with a different perspective and choose which one he wants to be his past, but yea...he knows. And his parents, well Vail said that anyone NEAR the cube when it broke would have their memories restored, so I'm guessing only Conner, Wes, and Fred/Illyria had their memories restored and Gunn will still have no clue as to the whole Conner situation and neither will Conner's parents. As for Wes I cannot WAIT until he dies. This has been a long time coming. I'm so sick of of him thinking that he knows what is best for everyone in a situation and trying to take control, but only messing things up in the end. He overreacted with Conner when he was a child and screwed everything up. He overreacted on last nights ep when he busted the cube and got all his memories back after Angel BEGGED him not to. You could tell Wes didn't want those memories back and I can't wait until he finally gets his. As a whole, last night was one of the best ever - this whole season has been the best ever. I can't wait to see what unfolds at the end!!
wow...thank you writers... by Speedstream	Apr 22nd, 2004 10:28:03 AM
...b/c that may just be the best episode Connor has ever been in!!! Anyone who has read any of my other posts knows i HATED CONNOR, but tonight...wow...just wow...and the end...when he acknowledges that he understands...that he understands why ANGEL did all the things he did...and has his memories and doesn't go psycho...just...wow. Once i watch it again i may have more to say...but i am in awe at the moment...later days
and how about the fight scenes... by Speedstream	Apr 22nd, 2004 10:39:58 AM
I was getting to SICK AND TIRED of not having any real fight scenes! I'm talking season 1-4 where they would beat the shat out of eachother for maybe a solid 15 minutes thru out the episode. I was also tired of Spike killing and being a badass, and ANGEL sittin behind a desk. It was sweet to see ANGEL kick the CRAP outtathose deomons. Just tear them a new one! That epsiode was a guarenteed 4 stars!! No way around it. I hated Connor b4 last nite, and wanted to see nothing but a brutal heartless death for the bitchy moron b4 last nite at 8pm central time. And in case anyone isn't clear...and i know there is some speculation...Connor does know at the end. The way and the time he placed that...followed by the IMMEDIATE walk away...and did anyone else catch that whole hand to his eye thing from behind. He went and wiped his face near his eye...a tear for sure. He knows. ALSO, the look...the insanity in his eyes once the box was broken...the sudden ability to fight again and just kill the shat out Shahjan. Awesome. Total genius! This ep. is not only one of the best all season, but possibly in the best ever for the show. To bad Cordy couldnt have been here to see this...but givin the Whedon-verse, she's prolly smilin down the the situation. I was throughly impressed w/ this episode...later days
VCR Mishap -- Did anyone tape this episode? by David Olstein	Apr 22nd, 2004 11:18:12 AM
If anyone taped this show, PLEASE send me an e-mail at dolstein@dbllp.com. I have the previous 9 episodes of Angel (as well as Alias, 24, Gilmore Girls, Smallville and Karen Cisco) and would be happy to do a swap.
Damn WB's season five budget cuts!! by Hjermsted	Apr 22nd, 2004 11:42:43 AM
Seeing Conner hit by a car then getting up and walking away unscathed (and confused) would have been a great teaser opening.
I hate to say it ... by jgsugden	Apr 22nd, 2004 12:01:22 PM
Very good episode. One spinoff idea supposedly under consideration when Buffy ended would feature Dawn and Conner in college together. Although Michelle's lack of interest in most things Buffy would tend to make this an impossibility now, I don't know if I think it would be a bad idea anymore. The adjustments to Conner really seem to have worked in building a character that works. I'd be interested to see what JW could do with a Peter Parker style storylin with Conner at Stanfurd. Buffy's message was female empowerment. Angel's was redemption. Firefly's was not giving up. A series focused on the 'Great power = great responsibility' angle would really work. I know it was done a bit in Buffy and Angel, but there was a lot of room left ... And the well adjusted super hero Conner (as opposed to whiny and maladjusted) would be a good character to focus on.
Count Down by pants malone	Apr 22nd, 2004 12:04:44 PM
Oh, those reFRESHing eps of Angel. How I will miss thee. I have not purchased any on the dvd sets, because of TNT and Fox late night reruns. This season will be a definite addition to my collection. On another note, I am glad Wes got his memory back. If any member of the team needs to remember the past, it is him.
Connor has everything he needs now. by Ryvver	Apr 22nd, 2004 12:16:06 PM
Gotta say, this episode was hella spectacular. The ambiguous ending of whether Connor's memories were returned to him or not make it even cooler, because it lets us participate in the outcome; we get to decide if he has his memories or not. I'm of the opinion that his memories were returned. If Connor remembered his past and acted like he acted in this episode, it means he's finally got everything he needs to be a well-adjusted human being. All his angst and whiny brash annoyingness in seasons past were due to his clearly Swiss-cheesey life. Never understood anything but revenge, grudges and violence, what with being brought up by Holtz. Never understood family. Never understood sacrifice. Never even really understood the responsibility one has to have with such crazy power. But now having both sets of memories, he has everything he needs...everything he ever wanted, and it serves him so well. He needs the pain of his Holtz/Angel past to fuel strength's fire. He needs the love and security of his fabricated past to be able to love and think selflessly. And to finally be able to grasp love, he's able to see the love Angel always had for him and can make peace with his painful past. I really think Connor can jump forward from this point to be a kickass hero. Maybe that's why the episode is called 'Origin'. It really touched me and had me cheering. Hella spectacular.
New Here by lovella	Apr 22nd, 2004 12:55:20 PM
Ok, Long time lurker, first time poster,you know the drill. We had a storm where I live last night and I completely missed this ep. Reading the posts are making me crazy.
Is anyone still here? by lovella	Apr 22nd, 2004 12:57:59 PM
Missing one of the last five is killing me. I love this show.
come to think of it... by lynxpro	Apr 22nd, 2004 01:10:33 PM
The Memory Cube looked like a Jedi Holocron...
5 stars easily..... by BANE	Apr 22nd, 2004 01:46:28 PM
This ep. was incredible. I have had a major hate for Connor ever since VK showed up at the Hotel from Kortath(sp?). But watching this ep. made me really respect VK. Going from a hateful character that someone should just smack to this "Hi, dad- I'm supposed to kill Sajohn to protect my family" respectable Connor was great. Why oh why did the WB cancel this show when it's peaking?
What's with all the hatred for Wesley? by Roguewriter	Apr 22nd, 2004 03:09:56 PM
Wow. I mean, yeah, the guy was a ponce on BUFFY and during ANGEL's first season, but he's very quickly become one of my favorite characters in the Buffyverse BECAUSE of his rueful, mournful, ever-conflicted nature. Wes makes choices. A lot of them are wrong. They're compounded over time, not absolved or erased. That's life, gang. Wesley carries such a HUGE burden as a result of his choices in life -- and he seems very real to me as a result. I love nothing on television so much as a bright, witty, unlucky and above all else morose character! Hence the appeal of Daria, BUFFY's Oz, and the actalike leads on DEAD LIKE ME and WONDERFALLS. Grim cynicism... it's just one more service we offer.
wow.. by dengreg31	Apr 22nd, 2004 03:45:22 PM
seriously great television. Its just ridiculously entertaining..in a few years its all going to be reality shows and police procedurals..sigh.
RE: Wesley by Big Jim	Apr 22nd, 2004 03:45:33 PM
It's always interesting to see the development of a character over a period of time. For a good example, watch all 3 Godfather films and pay special attention to Talia Shire's character. Most often the development of the character is to the positive (becoming a better person). But not Wes; he has gone in the opposite direction. I have enjoyed seeing him go from the shrieking scaredy-cat he was to the man-of-action anti-hero he is now.
Wes grimly cynical? No way by koomoReborn	Apr 22nd, 2004 03:52:50 PM
What makes his character so good is that he's taken more mental and physical damage than anyone else still on the show. And he always gets back up. In addition to all the great plotting, whitty dialogue, etc that everyone's mentioned, I'd like to repeat the observation that the parking lot fight scene was perhaps the best I've seen Angel involved in. PLEASE, no more of this "slap!", slide across floor, get up and "slap!" opponent slides across the floor dullness. Head twisting and WWF backbreaks are, as Conner said "Awesome!" And that was the best five-second performance of Mercedes I've ever seen. Damn, was she hot. This ep will be regarded as a top-10 Buffyverse episode.
The Delay in Reviews by TheDarkShape	Apr 22nd, 2004 03:57:57 PM
It's really not Herc's fault that these go up after the episode airs. Herc sees the episode early through the wildfeed, and WB has converted that to digital, which means there's no way to actually watch it in advance.
Connor by mullymt	Apr 22nd, 2004 05:13:36 PM
I actually think that Connor was a brilliant character last season. It's rare that you see a character that the viewer expected to be redeemed actually not be redeemed. The norm seems to be that if any bad character sticks around long enough, he becomes good (Spike, Harmony, just about every Marvel comic book ever written). I like that Joss decided to deny the viewer the satisfaction of seeing Connor straighten out his life without a deus ex machina.
Conner and memories ... by jgsugden	Apr 22nd, 2004 05:21:29 PM
I really think that there is little ambiguity left in regards to Conner and his memories. Instead of being a truly ambiguous situation, I think that Conner decided to handle the situation just as Wesley said: The false memories were put there for a reason, so pay heed to them and 'ignore' the other memories. Conner's sudden skill with weapons was a CLEAR indication that he had regained his prior memories. The dialogue between Angel and Conner at the end was not there to leave the question of whether Conner knew open, it was there to say, "Look, Dad. I know what you did. And I get why you did it. And it worked. And I'm grateful. And I want you to know that, but I don't want to ruin this gift you've given me. And Illyria is h.o.t."
I want to be Illyria's pet, damn it. by Toby___Wong	Apr 22nd, 2004 05:24:31 PM
Fuck Warner Bastards. Fuck them in their thoroughly fucked asses. They can shove their future stuff up their stinking bungholes. If incompetence were a competition they would be world champs. What a great episode this was. The way I see it it was about choices. That's something Warner Bastards knows nothing about. Great move, Warner Bastards. I hope it will haunt you till the end of days. I hope you burn in hell, Jordan. FX, please take Angel, since you also carry the great Shield. You know what quality is.
Is it true Angel is gone because of Dark Shadows?? by BladetheOriginal	Apr 22nd, 2004 05:39:51 PM
I heard the WB was disappointed with Angel's slumping ratings but was more committed to the Dark Shadows remake so the WB dropped one show about a vampire for another show about a vampire even though NBC had their own Dark Shadows remake which failed mostly because of preemption by Desert Storm if I recollect. Besides being a terribly long run on sentence, is the rumors true and more importantly, are we planning to NOT watch the WB's version?? THANKS!
Vincent Kartheiser... by Jrzlee	Apr 22nd, 2004 06:18:19 PM
was great last night. I thought he played the "new" Connor with great subtlety. Proved to me that it wasn't the actor I disliked, but the whiny, negative, miserable character that the CHARACTER became. He had started out as a great champion etc., then he was ruined with all the whining, and of course, the affair with Cordy made him even less likable. I suspect that Connor really did remember that Angel was his father, but chose to go back to his new life. That's what I think was implied by the slo-mo eye contact between him and Angel at the end. It gave me chills, still does, what a great ep.
wb can go down in flames!!! by yeah i'm a jerk!	Apr 22nd, 2004 07:10:10 PM
i will miss angel something fierce next season. i don't care about retreads of lost in space or dark shadows. at least king of the hill will be back next year.
move the show to FX please! by lynxpro	Apr 22nd, 2004 08:06:29 PM
I'd rather have 13 hardcore episodes of "Angel" on the F/X Channel than promised telemovies on the WB that the WB won't promote heavily to ensure they don't do well. Why won't Warners do that? Because if an "Angel" telemovie does well when "Dark Shadows" is failing like "Birds of Prey", then it will confirm that the execs were stupid about cancelling the show in the first place. A dark (no pun intended) "Angel" on F/X would complement the network who also brings us "The Shield" and the great "Nip/Tuck", not to mention that they still broadcast all the seasons of "Buffy." 13 episodes would also free up Boreanaz to do any side stuff he'd like. Plus, it would be easier to gather a crew together for 13 episodes than a telemovie here and there. I can guarantee you the 6 telemovies wouldn't be in a single season; they'd drag out like what the Fox Network did with "Alien Nation," over the course of three or four years. Then again, why not do new episodes in syndication? It seems to work for "Andromeda" and "Stargate SG-1." Heck, Sci-Fi would do well to have "Angel" run after "Battlestar Galactica." This just bugs me. I'd think 20th Century Fox Television and Fox Home Video would be more proactive over this considering how well "Angel" has done with the Season Box Set DVD collections.
Dark Shadows by lynxpro	Apr 22nd, 2004 08:14:20 PM
What bugs me about this version is how the WB is already hyping it. They claim now they want to attract an older audience with the gothic horror angle. Really? I thought one of the reasons why they cancelled "Angel" was because they wanted more "teen" orientation and "Angel's" audience was aging. There is no way Dark Shadows will have more action than "Angel" so it won't appeal to most of Angels audience or Smallville for that matter. Having been a fan of the 1991 Dark Shadows (and who has watched a lot of the original version), I have to say that the source material doesn't support an action orientation in the latest relaunch. Teen-wise, who are they going to attract? Are viewers of 7th Heaven, One Tree Hill, and Everwood magically going to start watching a vampire show? Think about that for a moment. That's like asking a majority of the people who've see "The Passion of the Christ" two to three times to go check out "Hellboy." It makes no sense and it ain't gonna happen. So if you haven't seen the latest news, they've cast uber-hottie Kelly Hu in Dark Shadows to potentially attract more males. I can guarantee had Kelly Hu been added to Angel Season 6, there would've been a higher spike in the male demographic, but alas, we will never know now. Stupidity.
3 1/2 stars .. no surprise by Calm_b4_the_Strm	Apr 23rd, 2004 01:28:28 AM
Unless the episode has some references to a buffy episode or a guest star from Buffy or James Marsters getting more than 5 minutes of screen time , Hercs gonna give it a 3 1/2 . This was easily one of the top fives episodes of this season . Connor FINALLY getting the right treatment from the writers and its truly tragic how good the character could have been if they hadnt turned him into a whiny turd . VK and David B. have truly good chemistry together.
Great episode by cooper2000	Apr 26th, 2004 08:29:10 PM
Boy has this season rebounded after a shaky start. The monster of the week was just not working and it seems that they broke away from that. My guess is WB wanted the lite non arc episodes and if it had stayed like that all season it would have been as bad as Buffy season 6 and 7. The way Connor was portrayed was the way he should have always been on the show and its a shame that thats all he was, was a whiney jerk. WB really does suck for cancelling this show.
great fucking show by kojiro	Apr 26th, 2004 09:28:21 PM
great fucking series

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