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AICN COMICS! @$$Hole Reviews For You!!

Luthor? by Steve Rogers	Dec 1st, 2003 04:30:08 AM
they both suck. Superman comics have blown for the last ten years. First!!
what about NYX by 81666	Dec 1st, 2003 04:54:12 AM
sheeit that am one cool comic!!
Romita Jr.? by DrLogan	Dec 1st, 2003 05:40:02 AM
The cover of BATMAN/SUPERMAN #6-- are those Romita, Jr. pencils? Sure looks like it to me. But I thought he was exclusively a Marvel boy....
Still looks like Ed McGuinness to me by De Selby	Dec 1st, 2003 05:58:32 AM

Corporate Luthor. Definitely Corporate Luthor. by Ribbons	Dec 1st, 2003 06:00:49 AM
I suppose it's all a struggle between light and dark in the first place, isn't it? An untouchable mogul with little regard for the sanctity of life but his own is scarier in a way than a mad scientist. It's basically one of the windmills our society tilts at to begin with. It's also a better fit for Superman: he's basically got the power to exact our sociological wet dreams against the bastard, although a lot of the drama in the series comes from whether or not he can outwill Luthor or the other way around.
NYX by Ribbons	Dec 1st, 2003 06:04:28 AM
I gotta give it up to Quesada for successfully making it seem like mutants could really exist in New York City. It was a smart move to avoid mentioning them at all until the end of issue #1, and the first introduction to them was a reference to the parallels between a speech by Charles Xavier and Martin Luther King, Jr.'s "I Have A Dream" speech. It seemed kind of out of place, but the environment itself had already been so firmly established as real that it just fit.
Mad Scientist Luthor was better by the G-man	Dec 1st, 2003 08:02:18 AM
At least when handled correctly. See, eg, Elliott S. Maggin's excellent "Last Son of Krypton" novel. Evil businessman Luthor has been going on for nearly 20 years now. Time to move on.
LexCorp, by far. by Marco_Xavier	Dec 1st, 2003 08:17:03 AM
The plotting mad scientist is about the lamest cliche in comic book history, and if you absolutely need your fix of it, look no further than Dr. Sivana (whilst Captain Marvel continues to do his classic Superman impression). Lex Luthor under the combined talents of John Byrne not only transcended that defining archtype, but in fact developed a personality that has eclipsed DC's flagship heroes' ever since. While Lex began his new life as a fairly blatant Miller Kingpin riff, subsequent work on the character yielded one of the most facinating and unique anti-heroes in the medium. If you look at each character's effect on Metropolis through objective eyes, you'll realize Lex Luthor is the city's most important benefactor. It was LexCorp that put Metropolis on the global map before Superman, and it's this company that sustains the city in a way Superman's showy heroics never could. Luthor built the city's economy, created technological wonder to defend the city, and has proven formitable enough to handle most any threat currentlty routed by the Man of Steel. This is in part due to the fact that Superman's villains are generally so inferior as to make conflicts with the S-Man dull as drying pain. The fun in reading a Superman comic, at least for me, is in viewing Lex as the protagonist struggling against the oppressive reign of an alien overlord who would dictate his personal morality to an entire world. Lex is a mere mortal who has built an empire with his genius, and his determination is enough to empower him to stare down even an earthbound god. While Luthor is certainly a flawed individual, watching his sadism and ambition play out in stories is far more entertaining than anything to come out of Clark Kent's tired existence. Tempered by the sympathatic turns and tragic history applied by folks like Dan Jurgens and Joe Kelly (typically lousy writers inspired to occasional greatness by their shiny-headed muse) obviously inspired "Smallville," yet another venue where Luthor outshines a series titular star. I'm anxiously awaiting Brian Azzarrello's work in "Man of Steel." While I was less than enthused by dreak like "Cage," I expect this character will reasonate with the scribe.
Which Luthor by Dmann	Dec 1st, 2003 08:18:12 AM
I miss evil scientist Luthor, flat out. I like the evil Donald Trump Luthor, but miss the Evil Scientist version.
Battlesuit by De Selby	Dec 1st, 2003 08:50:20 AM
I've been wondering where that suit comes from. I've noticed it in JLA: Earth 2 as well as in Superman For All Seasons.
Dammit by Dog Of Mystery	Dec 1st, 2003 09:10:35 AM
You're making me want to read a Superman book. Don't do that!!! hehehe
Best Luthor? by rev_skarekroe	Dec 1st, 2003 09:36:53 AM
Gene Hackman in Superman IV: The Quest For Peace. Being involved in that film is true evil. BTW, is Robert Loren Fleming dead? Ambush Bug just doesn't seem the same without him. sk
Mad Scientist Luthor... by King Rhythm	Dec 1st, 2003 09:58:15 AM
..yet I hated them being friends as kids. That sucked. Are they trying to get that on again? How could they? Isn't the businessman Luthor like twenty years older than Supes? I don't read Superman, haven't since the late eighties. So, yeah, Mad Scientist Luthor, in that purple shirt/green pants 70s combo.
L.L. by randalmcmurphy	Dec 1st, 2003 10:42:44 AM
I feel that the mad scientist Luthor was a character that preceded cliche, but he still became a shining example of the way a cliche can become omnipresent in comicdom. Corporate Luthor is genius. He is a modern take on the same character. Instead of trying to beat the unbeatable with a superior intellect that creates easily thwarted machines, He uses that intellect to establish himself in a corporate world, where by todays standards, one can make themselves invincible. I would LOVE to see an Enron-esque scandal befall Ol' double L. It would be a fantastic way to show the shaky foundation that crooked power establises, and also a way for Lex to get back to the gadgets and destroy all of those cliches! (Sorry for the rambling post...)
Lobo Unbound by RenoNevada2000	Dec 1st, 2003 11:12:20 AM
Didn't this start as an ongoing title? When did it switch to a 6 issue mini?
Luthor as businessman by RenoNevada2000	Dec 1st, 2003 11:18:50 AM
The Lex as evil businessman offers so much more story potential. Look at Lex as President! You could never have done that with the pre-revamp character.
Luthor as crack whore by PlantBoy!	Dec 1st, 2003 04:01:42 PM
Let's reinvent him again!
JLA/Avengers by BillEmic	Dec 1st, 2003 04:48:10 PM
Did anyone else think that...not much of anything happened in JLA/Avengers #3? It was rather a letdown.
Ah, I did not know... by KryptoCarbonite	Dec 1st, 2003 04:54:46 PM
So that's why the Super Powers action figures looked like that...
JLA: Liberty and Justice is out? by Gheorghe Zamfir	Dec 1st, 2003 05:04:03 PM
I thought we weren't getting that until next year? And I liked Kingdom Come more than Marvels.
Gotta go with Corporate Lex by superninja	Dec 1st, 2003 05:17:20 PM
This Luthor adds more depth to the Superman mythos and to the entire DCU as well. There's no way the mad scientist version could be as much a threat as Lex the Prez. LexCorp and Wayne Industries competition and Bruce and Lex's clashing worldviews is something which I would like to see further explored in Batman (maybe World's Finest will touch on this). Now that Diana is in the political game - Lex should be showing up in the pages of Wonder Woman. Lex is a manipulative character, but he could be either a friend or a foe depending on the mood he's in.
We've had this conversation before... by JonQuixote	Dec 1st, 2003 05:26:41 PM
...and while Maggin's LAST SON OF KRYPTON, when directed to me, did serve as a reminder at how much fun Luthor could be when it was his imagination & intellect versus Superman's powers, I still vote for CORPORATE LUTHOR. Why? A multitude of reasons, not the least of which is that Superman already has a sh*tload of villains who can match their imagination & intellect against his powers. Corporate Luthor isn't a question of battling brains versus brawn, or a variation thereof, often Corporate Luthor negates Superman's powers because the battle isn't just versus his intellect, but rather one fought on an intellectual plane. Also, CorpLuthor has menace that his pre-Crisis counterpart never did - for all Scientist Luthor's inventions, contraptions, and schemes, you know that Superman was ultimately there to save Lois from the laser or the Daily Planet from crumbling under the earthquake machine. But Corporate Luthor can strike at them in ways the Criminal couldn't - he could wipe out the White's pension fund, he could make Lois's sister dependent upon his company, etc. He's creepier, scarier than he's ever been (well, hypothetically speaking...the problem is that Corporate luthor is considerably harder to write, and since Byrne went crazy, few of the assigned writers seem to be up to the task), AND, most importantly, he adds a new dimension to Superman's rogues gallery, presents a unique challenge, a real challenge.
Yep. Corporate Luthor. by Buzz Maverik	Dec 1st, 2003 05:50:21 PM
As one of y'all said, bazillionaire Luthor can do everything Mad Scientist Luthor could do and then some. I love the irony of corporate Luthor. He's just a man but the most powerful superhero on DC Earth can't do jack about him. Sure, Superman could disentegrate him with his breath, but he's not going to do that so Lex can pretty much do what he wants. I like the concept of President Luthor. It'll make for good stories. Ex-President Luthor stories could blow, but what're ya gonna do? The problem with Corporate Luthor and with a lot of Superman's old rogues gallery is the lack of a powerful, physical, visual threat. I'm not the most knowledgable about Superman, but we have Mongol, Bizarro, Brainiac (whom I think is now a giant computer -- think visually, guys!), Metallo and few others. Doomsday, I guess. That can get boring. I like the idea of Superman as Darkseid's primary foe.
Its the end of the world over in PROMETHEA by jinX	Dec 1st, 2003 05:54:34 PM
...I feel fine.
Jesus, Luthor frickin' took over this place! Where's the love fo by Dave_F	Dec 1st, 2003 06:43:02 PM
You folks did buy it, right? I didn't mention this in my review, but I nearly didn't pick it up m'self because I thought it was gonna be another weepy message book like its predecessors. Seems Dini made a conscious effort to avoid that pitfall, and I can't thank him enough. It's interesting - it seems to me that the JLA has been on a downward slide since Morrison left, what with the mediocre creative teams and the 101 overpriced miniseries, but the group is ending the year on a helluva strong note. JLA/AVENGERS has 'em back in the spotlight, LIBERTY & JUSTICE is about as good a tribute to them as you could ask for, and everyone is telling me that the second season of the JLA 'toon is just kicking all kinds of ass. MUST SEE IT! All in all, not bad for a bunch of decades-old characters that often get written off as being hopelessly out of date by the hipster crowd and Marvel Zombies. So what'd you guys think of LIBERTY & JUSTICE? Any among my fellow @$$holes who read it?
Oh, all right, goddammit, let's talk Lex... by Dave_F	Dec 1st, 2003 07:29:25 PM
Actually Village Idiot turned out a helluva Tale From The Crevice there, so kudos to the ol' boy! Like UncleFucka, though, I'm a wee bit creeped out by it, because there's just something wrong when someone can get you enthused for a story featuring "Lexorians." =D Hey, V.I., any idea why this story wasn't featued in THE GREATEST SUPERMAN STORIES EVER TOLD? Man, that book was a poop-pie, and if I'd been the editor I think I could've made some space, easy. If only for the fantastic visuals of the Luthor battle armor and the redesigned Brainiac (always wanted that SUPER POWERS figure - the Lex one I've got!), it seems like a good candidate. I'm very impressed with Swan's art, too, which is a lot more lively than I figured it would be. Guess I was mostly just familiar with his 50's/60's stuff. Interestingly, I actually find Swan's rendition of the Lex-Suit much cooler than the Perez pin-up version. ******* V.I., I think I've come to understand some of your frustration at the lack of respect given classic Superman stories. Reading your tribute to this issue, I was reminded of my own fondness for some of the classic Hulk stories of the 70's & 80's (the Wein and Mantlo stuff), an era too often dismissed under the false impression that it was just issue after issue of the "dumb Hulk" punching shit. You remember that issue of INCREDIBLE HULK I wrote up for the stillborn @$$hole Hulk tribute? The issue where the High Evolutionary needs Hulk to destroy his self-preserving battle armor so he can committ suicide? Well, like your Luthor story, it's of course tinged with the more juvenile trappings of its era, but it's also a genuinely affecting tale. In some ways, the simplicity of delivery actually makes for a stronger tale than our more refined modern superhero comics. Works a little like a good Disney flick, or say, THE IRON GIANT, unabashedly wearing its heart on its sleeve, working on a pure emotional level, and remaining largely undiluted by adult shades of gray. Nothin' wrong with that. Now "Lexorians" on the other hand...
JLA: Liberty and Justice by the G-man	Dec 1st, 2003 07:40:18 PM
A decent "old school" JLA tale, but one distinguished mostly by Ross's art, and a few character touches (such as the Barry and Hal ones mentioned). If there was a flaw, it was one that way too many writers have latched on to over the last 20 years, namely, this idea that Martian Manhunter is somehow the "heart and soul" of the original JLA. I hate to break it to these guys, but, as someone who's actually read JLA on and off since, oh, 1969, J'Onn wasn't a major player in the league for most of its history. If anything, Green Arrow and Hawkman (and their bickering) were the heart and soul (or heart and brains) of JLA for most of its original run.
Oh, and, RE: Curt Swan's "retirement by the G-man	Dec 1st, 2003 07:41:26 PM

Oh, and RE: Curt Swan's "retirement" by the G-man	Dec 1st, 2003 07:46:45 PM
"Retirement" is when you decide stop working and take it easy. Swan did not decide to stop. DC decided for him, firing his ass from Superman to make room for Byrne and Ordway in 1986. Even Byrne commented at the time that DC should have given the man a really nice pension for the rest of his life (which, of course, they probably didn't).
Liberty and Justice was amazing by De Selby	Dec 1st, 2003 07:53:10 PM
It's now one of the favourite bookc in my collection. Especially liked Aquaman and Barry Allen. And was it me, or did one of Aquaman or Barry make a joke about Wonder Woman's cleavage whilst in the Batcave ("nice view")? My favourite bit, though, has to be when the double page spread when the woman drops out of sight over the edge of the bridge and then we see Superman rising into view holding the awestruck woman. One of those moments when a shiver runs down your spine. In the words of Tharg: "Thrillpower!"
Forgot to weigh in on the businessman v. mad scientist debate... by Dave_F	Dec 1st, 2003 08:02:32 PM
For the reasons cited by others, I'm going to tentatively cast my vote for the "untouchable businessman"...but only tentatively. I've a notion that the mad scientist version could be brought back very effectively as a sort of "ultimized" version. Imagine him as a criminal feared the world over - the villain whose mind is so powerful he's got a contingency for every situation. There'd be no situation he couldn't figure his way out of, and five minutes rooting around a janitor's closet would have him emerging with a one-shot weapon that would hurt Superman enough to give him time to escape. Picture someone who would work a scheme to bankrupt an entire small country just to bankroll his experiments. Who politicians would be afraid to speak up against because he's killed them in the past for a slighting him. In fact, just about everyone would be terrified to come face-to-face with this Lex Luthor. I see him as a hands-on guy, using a minimum of underlings and always wanting to be the guy who pushes the button, pulls the trigger, etc. He's definitely a murderer, but not a killer for pleasure - he just cuts down anyone who gets in his way (well, okay, with a little pleasure). I figure he's perpetually the most wanted man in America, if not the world, and it would be a major event if Superman were to capture him - probably something readers would see only every five, six years or so - a true rarity because he's such a wily bastard. Definite "yes" to the battlesuit on occasion, and yes to the purple and green jumpsuit when he's at one of his labs or safehouses, but I see him operating undercover a fair amount, using disguises to impersonate and psychologically manipulate his many pawns. In short, he'd be a scumbag so cool and effective it'd be hard not to root for him. Think "slightly less violent Hannibal Lecter" or "evil Doc Savage" and you've got the idea. Hell, I'd read it anyway!
Various: by Dave_F	Dec 1st, 2003 08:36:39 PM
NYX - someone gimme the pitch on why they like this book. I read the first issue, found it to be a fairly depressing look at a shitty teen life. Had a few strong moments and a few dialogue groaners, but what struck me more than anything was that the realism was fairly joyless, and hardly what I want to see in a Marvel Universe book. What is it about the book that has people reading it and saying, "I like this"? Besides the art, I mean. *** That's definitely a McGuinness cover on BATMAN/SUPERMAN #6. And I like McGuinness, especially some of his BATMAN/SUPERMAN covers, but that one's not a keeper. * Marco, nice analysis of the merits of evil, corporate Luthor, there. I'm dubious about Azzarello's idea of "Luthor the Hero", if only because I suspect it's born of Azzarello's inability to believe in Superman's pure benevolence, which, if that's the case...what the hell is he doing anywhere near the franchise? I'm getting a little tired of the need of certain writers to subvert the likes of Captain American and Superman. Just 'cause these jerk-offs have grown out of superheroes - which is perfectly fine - doesn't mean they should be allowed to tear these icons down. Still, just about anyone can appreciate a good "watchable" villain. Maybe Azzarello's Superman stories will surprise me. MAYBE. * Randalmcmurphy, kudos also to you for the idea of shaking Luthor from power to facilitate a return to the criminal mastermind of old. It's a good means of shaking up the status quo without resorting to "ultimazation." * Luthor as "crack whore"? Funniest line in this TalkBack yet. * Re: Martian Manhunter as "heart and soul" of the JLA - one presumes this stems from the fact that everyone wants to give J'onn his due for being one of the originals (just as odd-man-out, The Hulk, was a founding Avenger), but like the Hulk, he really can be a boring character if writers aren't on the ball. The "heart and soul" concept, despite its dubious historicity, does seem like a good way to set apart a guy who risks being a more stoic (and green) Superman. I kinda like it. *** Lastly, I got a chill when Superman caught the girl, too, DeSelby. Dini's pretty adept at tugging at the heartstrings when he wants to, as seen in all those great Mr. Freeze episodes of the 90's Batman cartoon.
See, Corm... you hit the nail on the head. by JonQuixote	Dec 1st, 2003 08:43:17 PM
One of the problems with making a truly threatening, overtly criminal Luthor is the need to vicious him up so much. Not that such a revamp is, by nature, bad, but it's just that we've seen it so many times before. Doc Ock moved into the lame-o category? Have him run a few people through with his tentacles & have the main characters talk about how vicious and deadly he is for a few panels. The nice thing about this Luthor is that he's able to remain threatening without some writer deciding that, to close the next big Luthor arc, he has to put a bullet through Lana Lang's spine or Mrs. White's brain. You still have that option with Corporate Luthor, I guess, but you can also see him threaten them on non-violent, non-physical levels. Besides, how long in today's market do you think they could write your proposed Luthor, doing these overtly corrupt and nasty and vicious things before even the most bleeding heart liberal in the DCU gets Joker-syndrome and says "jeez, just kill the bastard already. We'll forgive you this one. Quit putting him in an obviously inadequate revolving-door prison system already where he's just going to escape and murder a family of four in a month or two."
TALES FROM THE CREVICE errata. by Village Idiot	Dec 1st, 2003 09:05:45 PM
1. Sorry about the bandwidth limitation for the hyperlinks. Not only did I have no idea they would reach the limit, I didn't even know there was a limit. But as you may have read when you clicked on them, they should be back up the following day, so come back tomorrow if you missed it today. I think it's worth it.__________2. Something I didn't get a chance to talk about in the piece was some of the few battle-suited Luthor stories following ACTION #544. In one of the stories, Lex is able to disengage from the armor and have it enclose itself on Superman, trapping him inside. THAT was a hairy predicament, lemme tell you.__________3. Corm, thanks for getting the Perez pin-up link into the article. You like Swan's version better? Interesting. Again, I find Swan to be a little on the stiff side sometimes, but I think Swan gets the job done, and then some, 9 time out of ten. I also think his inker makes a big difference; I think I may prefer Bob Oksner inking Swan over Anderson. But for most people, Anderson is the Gold Standard. (And special thanks to Bizarromark, wherever he is, for giving me a proper schooling in Curt Swan way back when.)__________4. G-Man, yeah, you're right, Swan was put out to pasture before he was ready, tossed a bone here and there with Superman after the reboot. But I was at the Swan symposium at the Comicon, and I got turned on to his 90's AQUAMAN work, specifically #1. After hearing Mark Waid wax poetic on it during the panel, I HAD to get it, and I found it in the cheap bins at my store pretty easily. Waid wasn't lying: It really IS a beautiful book, and I recommend it for anyone who's interested in Swan's work. Maybe it'll find itself in another Tales from the Crevice someday.__________5. The Len Wein Hulk comparison is interesting, Corm; I'll remember that. (Incidentally, Wein wrote a few Supermans too.) The thing about stories like "Luthor Unleashed!" is that when you read it for the first time, it's pretty easy to dismiss; it seems cornball and forgettable, maybe even disposable. And then you find yourself thinking about it during idle moments -- and you have to admit that there was something there. And the next thing you know, you're writing a Tales from the Crevice about it.
Cormorant, re: NYX by Ribbons	Dec 1st, 2003 09:13:20 PM
I don't really like it, if you're referencing my praise for it. I just think that Quesada's done a good job of grounding it in reality.
Well, I'm not saying Luthor would just be carving up people in e by Dave_F	Dec 1st, 2003 09:27:32 PM
Like Doctor Doom, the ideal treatment would be such that deaths wouldn't always be "on screen", but you'd definitely get a sense that people who got in his path disappeared. But yeah, if an FBI agent got the drop on him, he'd press some little button on his belt to create a Predator-like distortion field around himself, grab the guy's gun, and kill him without a second thought. It's a matter of perception, though. You don't need to actually see many deaths like that to know that he's a dangerous S.O.B. - there's a lot to be said for implication and just the effect he has on people. Y'know how everyone in the DC Universe has been terrified of the Joker since the 80's, talking about him like he's the Jack The Ripper of our era or something? Well I like that perception most of the time, but it needn't be constantly bolstered by new atrocities. Sometimes, OFTENtimes maybe, the perception is enough. And if the occasional no-name cop or innocent bystander has to die as a reminder, I don't really have a problem with that as long as the writers don't rub the hero's nose in it (in other word, stop dwelling on the "revolving door" stuff and readers will forget about it - AS THEY SHOULD, these being perennial characters whose histories aren't meant to represent realism). No-names really are expendable, a nice means of bolstering villains' reputations because no-names are easily forgotten. Maybe it's wrong, but it's true - a good, workable device for melodrama. No one gives a shit that the Predator killed that one team of guerillas Arnie and company found skinned, but their deaths definitely let viewers know it meant business. So it should go for the Joker and a hypothetical hands-on Luthor. 'Sides, every once in a while Luthor would kill some bad guys who crossed him - say some Mafia types who inadvertantly hindered one of his plans. Thus, as with corrupt cop Vic Mackie on THE SHIELD, we find ourselves subconsciously giving him a little leeway. Would he absolutely have to get around to killing Perry or Lana one day to prove his worth? Nope. It seems like the obvious choice, because that's what lazy writers do so often, but consider...this Luthor might not even consider the Daily Planet a threat. Too small potatoes, and he's a guy who thinks big. Hell, maybe he even likes the Daily Planet. This is a guy who enjoys his evilness, so they could write the most scathing condemnation in the world and he'd just smile and think, "Yeah....aw yeah." The revolving door prison thing won't be a problem because this guy will rarely get captured, being as untouchable in his way as the corporate Luthor. Really, the Doctor Doom comparison is the one to stick with. Use the villain infrequently, make him a badass when he appears, and don't ever allow him to be 100% defeated. The rest is all in the details, and a good writer (hypothetical, but I hear they exist) should be able to pull that off. Hell, Marv Wolfman found a way to write 70 issues of TOMB OF DRACULA, a comic where a murderous vampire was basically the main character in almost every issue. My proposal isn't just "Lex becomes more violent," but also that Lex becomes a mad scientist who's fascinating to watch when he does appear, who instills a grudging admiration in readers because he's always got some freakishly cool contingency plan (like Priest's Black Panther, but eeeeeeeeevil). I don't think we've seen a villain like that in quite some time. I think it's time for the larger-than-life mastermind to make a modern day comeback as a hands-on guy ready to mix it up with the superheroes directly. That Luthor is powerless makes him that much cooler for confronting the likes of Superman physically.
Corm- by RenoNevada2000	Dec 1st, 2003 11:01:14 PM
"Evil Doc Savage" has got to be the absolutely best and most iintriguing pitch for a story concept I have ever read. Damn boy, get in contact with DC already.
Villians by Lukecash	Dec 1st, 2003 11:19:37 PM
Comorant-You hit the nail right on the head. We need a good villian that is mysterious and deadly. Take for example the original "super-villian" I speak of none other than Professor Moriarty-Sherlock Holmes equal. Many believe to this day, that the Professor was a constant presence in the Holmes series. In fact, he only appeared once..and not even in the entire story. Had Doyle had his way, Villian and Hero would perished together.****** It should be intresting to see what Loeb has in store...for Previews had the cover of Superman/Batman with President Lex Luthor IN THE SUIT!**** Lets put things in perspective. There are some great Comic Book Villians. To list the Top five.-(In no paticular order) 1)The Joker-the one villian that managed to survive his post code "funny badguy" makeover. Truelly a frightening character when handled by the right author-the randomness of his insanity should scare the strongest heart. 2)Doctor Doom-belovid leader, ruthless calculating foe-but with the perchant for honor. 3)Darksied-Again, with the right author-easily the most powerful and cunning villian DC has. 4)Kingpin-There is something classy about this thuggish man-Miller handled him right. 5) Lex Luthor. Even in both incarnation (ruthless buisnessman/mad scientist)-Lex was an intellegent foe, with the insane hatred against the hero Superman. This guy is the original, folks...the one that Sivana was patterned after...
Re: Liking NYX by SleazyG.	Dec 1st, 2003 11:21:41 PM
I didn't expect to, to be honest. I decided to give it six issues to prove itself. Yes, it's a real downer. Yes, there's a lot of movie-of-the-week melodrama (brother deals drugs, sister takes 'em, no visible dad, attempted suicide, etc.). Yeah, sometimes JQ's grasp of how the kids talk today is a bit off. BUT, BUT, BUT...a lot of the time, his dialogue is actually pretty good--definitely better than I was expecting. The world he's setting up in NYX, while perhaps not the "gutterpunk" NY kids he suggested at Wizard World Chicago, is certainly the most realistic, everyday portrayal of the lives of regular people I've ever read in an X-book. Those who like their comics all fantastical will say "who wants realistic X-men?" and they may have a point--I'll wait and see. What seems more likely at this point, though, is that JQ is trying to make the world as much like mine and yours (or at least the hapless schmucks from "NYPD Blue") as possible so that when somebody suddenly manifests a mutant ability you can really relate to them and their struggle. In the first two issues, he's really impressed me with his ability to do exactly that. I can actually relate to and feel for the main protagonist, which in this day and age is no mean feat. Will JQ be able to continue inspiring that empathy? Does he have enough ideas to carry the book as an ongoing title? I don't know, but we never do with a new book, do we? He's certainly impressed me with the first few issues, though, enough so that he'll get at least the full six issues from me, and he may even have a long-ter reader. Oh, and the luscious art sure doesn't hurt--since JQ doesn't have time to draw books right now, he went after the best talent he could find for his book, and I gotta say this Middleton guy's really got it. Hell, folks, you already buy tons o'crap, just like me--two or three issues where you get to find out if Marvel's top creative guy can cut it or not is worth the money, don'tcha think? I mean, it's not like you're buying MARVILLE or something...
Sorry, Cormorant, JQ's right. by SleazyG.	Dec 1st, 2003 11:30:39 PM
An amped-up Luthor would be a mistake of Jokerian proportions. Luthor is perfect at his existing power level, and his "hands off" approach is what makes him the perfect foil for Supes. Nobody can touch him, even though they know what a smarmy, manipulative bastard he is. When he becomes hands-on, he'll become fallible and much easier to take down. And every time they don't take him down or he gets out of it, it'll be a Jason Todd, or a Barbara Gordon, or a...what was Jim Gordon's wife's name? Anyway, you get the idea: anybody as powerful and dangerous as you describe would suffer in the hands of all but the best of writers, and it would ruin Superman's only decent rogue. His added strength would make him vulnerable, but in a "this is ridiculous and dull" way, not in a "they really added some depth" way. He's pretty much ideal as is.
Re: Azzarello on Batman by SleazyG.	Dec 1st, 2003 11:32:48 PM
As for Azzarello's run, from what I heard him say at WWC it's not about him thinking Supes isn't squeaky clean. It's because he was trying to understand bidness Luthor's hatred of Supes, and he hit on the idea that to Luthor Superman is the most powerful, dangerous creature on the planet--and he's an alien. He figures Luthor views himself as the hero--a guy who will go to any lengths to keep the Earth and its people safe from alien incursions. No matter how good Clark's intentions are, Lex suspects he may be putting on a show as part of a plan for an invasion force, or at least to take over and run the show himself down here. A reasonable assumption, especially for someone surrounded by triple-crosses and backroom wheeling and dealing, and it could give us some insight into the character if written well enough. Honestly, the new creative teams are the first time I've heard anything about the Superfamily that interested me much in the last 20 years (other than Prez Lex, which I hear wasn't followed through on as well as it could have been).
JLA/Avengers 3 by Spaz_Monkey	Dec 2nd, 2003 01:01:37 AM
I don't care about anything else. The entire issue could have been utter crap, but I don't care. Why?....... Hal Jordan and Barry Allen fighting side-by-side with The Avengers. That made me love Kurt and George forever.
Superman is Azz by Marco_Xavier	Dec 2nd, 2003 02:43:47 AM
Corm, I can't say I'll be reading Azzarrello on "Superman" proper. I see his hiring as a bid for NU DC buzz over artistic merit. I remember when Azz was being considered for the third Captain America relaunch, and was quoted as saying something along the lines of "I want to get Cap's hands bloody." This betrays such a basic lack of understanding of the character as to not only disqualify Azz from writing him, but casts doubt on his abilities as a professional writer. My feeling is that whether you like a character or not, you have to respect a company's property and the fan base they've cultivated when authoring their product. It's something like hiring David E. Kelly to write "Everybody Loves Raymond." It's not that Kelly isn't a talented writer, but if he can't cater his skills to the material (by not turning "Ray" into dramedy, for instance), then he shouldn't be involved with the show. Thankfully, since "Man of Steel" is intended to be a Lexcentric book, bias against Superman is downright welcome. Even if Azz drags the big red "S" through the mud there, it can all be chalked up to just reflecting Luthor's worldview. Something like what Ann Nocenti and Mike Baron did one month years past in an issue each of "Daredevil" and "The Punisher," a "Roshamon" thing. An aside: I don't see myself reading "Captain America" again anytime soon. Besides Bachalo's nauseating rendition, the preview of their first issue featured dialogue by Morales that seemed drafted by way of Miller's "Year One." Not that Miller's work wasn't a radical departure from Batman writers past, but aping a fifteen year old reimagining will hardly impress. I guess that groovy Dave Gibbons What If-style four-parter will stand as an enjoyable aberration in an otherwise abysmal volume.
Now, about J'Onn J'Onzz... by Marco_Xavier	Dec 2nd, 2003 03:01:41 AM
I'm one of the biggest Martian Manhunter fans on the face of this planet, so I of course will defend him unto death as the "Heart and Soul of the Justice League." Basically, one's interest in MM depends on their fidelity to the JLA. If you truly love the team like J'Onn does, you stuck through it over years as lousy and/or controversial as the Detroit era, the Giffen/DeMatteis international League, the painfully bad Jurgens/Vado/Jones years, and ill-conceived spin-offs like the Task Force. After surviving through all that, a fan realizes that the one thread holding all these disparate concepts together as a "Justice League" was J'Onn J'Onzz. Further, that character was usually the only one to remain roughly in character through all those incarnations, preserving his personal integrity, and safeguarding the League's. The reason why is simple--the League is J'Onn's adopted family, and he's become the grandfather of the clan. J'Onn has a deeper emotional investment in the League, in every variation and for each imdividual member, than any other hero in the DCU. His affection is apparent over time, and echoes the feelings of longtime fans. Therefore, J'Onn is not only the manufactered spirit of the team Post-Crisis, but also a surrogate for the veteran reader as honorary member of the team.
Rambling by Marco_Xavier	Dec 2nd, 2003 03:24:03 AM
I agree with JonQuixote about avoiding Joker-syndrome by keeping Lex corporate. Not only am I a big fan of putting The Joker to rest for the next decade or so, but after "Hannibal," I was highly receptive to shifting the focus toward Dollarhyde in "Red Dragon." Sustaining characters at that level of intensity is impossible without burning out both creators and readers. Most importantly, though, is the fact that the current take on Lex Luthor works, and I don't think you can say that about much else in the Superman franchise. I'd rather see "evil Doc Savage" applied to either an established 2nd rate villain (a powered-down Brainiac 4.0?) or that rarest of finds, a worthy new addition to the rogues gallery. I'd also like to echo Village Idiot's recommendation of the Giffen/Fleming/Swan Aquaman material. Eric Shanower's inks in the special accentuated the beauty and special nature of the first special, an Aquaman comic that was actually gasp good reading. The mini-series (with the Oksner inks) that followed was decent, but the spcial was so good it obviously inspired much of the later Peter David work on the character. Alright... sorry... enough out of me.
Marco, you have me vis a vis my failure to follow every incarnat by the G-man	Dec 2nd, 2003 06:35:28 AM
I note you seem to be referring to eras that are all from the mid-80s on. Fine. But that's not the era Ross and Dini were trying to invoke. They were trying to invoke the 1960s and 70s, when J'Onn was either absent or a minor player. My point was that, for much of the series' original run, and pretty much the run that Ross and Dini are trying to ape, J'Onn wasn't there. Hawkman and GA were.
Rob Haynes? by Louis Cyphre	Dec 2nd, 2003 07:11:16 AM
Sorry to go COMPLETELY off topic, but can anyone help me with a bit of info on the artist Rob Haynes? He drew the Daredevil:Ninja miniseries, and try as I might, I can't locate any information on anything else he's done. Was just seeing NYX mentioned; the art in that reminds me of 'Ninja' with the pleasant minimalism of line, wot? If anyone can help that'd be swell!
G-Man... by Marco_Xavier	Dec 2nd, 2003 08:30:32 AM
...like a lot of folks who use Pre-Crisis history to slag off Manhunter's relevance, you forget that the character's later impact coupled with revised chronology heavily influences modern creators. In short, Dini and Ross aren't much older than me, and they read a lot of the same comics. Rather than being older fans who wondered "what is this third stringer doing here" throughout Manhunter's Silver Age slot in the roster, they most likely were caught up in the mystique of the character built up by his irregular appearances and founder status. While Manhunter rarely appeared in the 1970's, his role in stories of the time were quite intriguing. I believe it was either Steve Englehart or Len Wein who wrote a single issue story that revealed J'Onn J'Onzz had secretly created the Justice League himself. Couple that with a series of dynamic outings in both JLofA and elsewhere and the relatively little known about the character among general fandom (true to this day,) and it's easy to see how the character could fire the young imagination of future creators with a clear respect for comic book history. I think Ross himself was in his teens when J'Onn returned like the prodigal son to the JLA fold just prior to Crisis, and that arrival must have proven quite a revelation. Seeing as Barry Allen died right around the same time, it seems to me at least some of Ross' love of that hero would have to come from researching stories published before his time, coupled with the elevation to true iconic status Barry received in death. Likewise, J'Onzz's being treated like the singular mooring within the League in it's most chaotic years made an impression. Factor in Manhunter fan Mark Waid's influence from the Kingdom Come days, and it makes sense that Ross would be, as you might feel, unduly reverent of the character. Besides, while Dini and Ross might be invoking the 60's League through their choice of line-up, their being affected by very modern writing is readily apparent. A true 60's throwback would have lacked any real characterization, instead favor Gardner Fox's plot-dominated adventures. The fact that the heroes had distinctive personalities at all signals that they are working far past the original models, and their small touches (Superman's "test pilot" line, Barry's phone call) is of a purely Post-90's flavor. It only makes since to not only use Manhunter's far more appealing modern characterization, but to also employ him as the "voice" of the League as a whole. Every other featured member is a well-known soloist, many of which having already gotten a Dini/Ross special under their belts. How much more odd and biased would it be to use Aquaman as the narrator? J'Onn J'Onzz barely has an existence outside the JLA titles (Anyone read his short-lived solo series? Is their a single fan of his HoM feature out there?), so he more than anyone is defined by being a member of the Justice League. I note you seem to be referring to eras that are all from the mid-80s on. Fine. But that's not the era Ross and Dini were trying to invoke. They were trying to invoke the 1960s and 70s, when J'Onn was either absent or a minor player. My point was that, for much of the series' original run, and pretty much the run that Ross and Dini are trying to ape, J'Onn wasn't there. Hawkman and GA were.
Oh okay, let's talk some more comics... by King Rhythm	Dec 2nd, 2003 10:32:44 AM
A BIT MORE ON LUTHOR: The 60s scientist Luthor sure was a well-rounded character, when other DC guys were, let's be fair, blank slates. My fave is the one where he finally has a chance to kick non-powered Superman's ass, but THROWS THE FIGHT SO SUPERMAN WILL GO AND GET A PLANET SOME WATER. That was heavy shit for 1963.* LIBERTY AND JUSTICE: That delivered, but what the fuck were Green Arrow and Canary mentioned as "associate members" for? Fuck, in the 70s, when this story is "set", they, Reddy and Ralph Dibny were ALWAYS in the spotlight, or so it seemed. And Ross, you're good, but STOP putting Captain Marvel and Plastic Man in the JLA all the time. They weren't there, okay? Do whine about DC changing Green Lantern, then make up your own old JLA line-up. That's called hypocrisy. I agree with G-Man: J'Onn J'Onnzz isn't a player to me. I got all the Satellite years issues and he ain't there. Except for two guest shots or whatever. He's not the "heart and soul" and if this book can have Wonder Woman, then J'onn should have been in the background. Final quibble: the blurb at the back calling the JLA "the first super-team". WTF? DC is a hive of sloppy shit like that these days. Fuck, the Green Arrows of the World predate them, let alone, the JSA, Seven Soldiers, Challengers etc. Other than those complaints, a perfect book. JL/AVENGERS: IS a perfect book.* BATMAN: Azzarello is better than Hush, anyway. But then, I'm sick of Jeph Loeb and his twelve part, every-fuckin' villain, crappy whodunnits with shit endings.
Luthor Red/Luthor Blue by mergeop	Dec 2nd, 2003 12:53:54 PM
Perhaps they could do a take on the old Superman Red/Blue imaginary story from the 60s and have both Luthors: mad scientist & businessman.
Chris Claremont & Alan Davis to take over Uncanny X-Men... by Elliot_Kane	Dec 2nd, 2003 02:38:19 PM
Just announced :) Looks like Uncanny might actually be worth reading again...
The Year Of Giffen... by Elliot_Kane	Dec 2nd, 2003 02:41:30 PM
Not just for 'Formerly Known...' and Lobo, but also for the extremely well written Reign Of The Zodiac. And guess who will be taking over the writing chores on Thanos as of issue 8? None other than Keith Giffen! A good year indeed...
Lobo Unbound... by Elliot_Kane	Dec 2nd, 2003 02:44:42 PM
is incredibly funny, taking the piss out of real life events, hip hop, and (In the last issue) Dan Didio, one of the top DC execs. I've always loved Lobo, particularly as written by either Giffen or Alan Grant.
Essentials ... by riskebiz	Dec 2nd, 2003 04:10:36 PM
I know this is sort of off topic, but does anybody else wish that they'll take the old b/w magazine comics of Planet of the Apes and Conan and the like and put them in the "Essential" series? They are b/w and seems like a natural. I loved those old Planety of the Apes stories with Jason, Alexander, Brutus and the Lawgiver.
Ugh--CLAREMONT! by SleazyG.	Dec 2nd, 2003 04:29:19 PM
WHYWHYWHY?!? I love Alan Grant's artwork, but dammit--Claremont? COME ON! He sucked on X-books in the '90s. He sucks on 'em now. Why give him back the flagship book? Jumpin' junipers, did you guys read his overwrought crap in FANTASTIC FOUR a few years ago? The guy is DONE. In fact, he's overdone. He can't write for crap anymore. Yeah, yeah, respect for what he did in 1987. Frikkin' WHATEVER. Try reading anything he's done in oh, say, the last DECADE and you'll hate yourself for it. Shit, he turned Willie Lumpkin into a hot blonde and gave Reed and Sue a warrior daughter from the future! Did anybody wanna see a female Cable?!? The guy ripped off his OWN CONCEPTS! The writing is dull and impenetrable, the characters are boring and cookie-cutter, their reactions are either impenetrable or incomprehensible--I mean, whut tha crap? Y'know, Davis had a damned fine little team book of his own there with ClanDestine, but then, he forgot to call it X-Clan X-Destine, so it never went anywhere. Grrrrr. So much for Nu-Marvel--it's now Old, Worn-Out, Rehashed Marvel. See? It's true: careful what you wish for. Say, who wants to bet I can get a full set of SOVEREIGN SEVEN on line for under 20 bucks?
Caper continues to rule by Xandr37	Dec 2nd, 2003 08:19:44 PM
One of the most original new titles out there and nobody seems to care. Plus a collection of old issues of the Goon came out. Come on people!!!!!!!!
Not just Corporate Luthor... by thecomedian	Dec 3rd, 2003 06:14:06 PM
But fat, out of shape, 20 years older than Clark, hand rotting from the Kryptonite ring, Lex Luthor. The sociopath who killed his parents to get their insurance money. The creep who hired the two kids who used to pick on him to be hired goons. Any of youse who've never read "Lex Luthor, The Unauthorized Biography" doesn't know what a villain is. It's the perfect companion piece to "The Killing Joke" and that's why it absolutely sickens me that they're ruining Luthor in Birhtright just to copy one of the gayest onscreen TV duos ever. yeech.
Actually, Comedian... by SleazyG.	Dec 3rd, 2003 06:40:02 PM
...they implied on "Smallville" recently that Lex's daddy, Jon Glover, had actually burned his parents' tenement down, killing them in the process. It's like Jeph Loeb and a couple of the other consultants like the original material but wanna change it anyway. Clearly, they were going a different direction w/Lex and want him to be more sympathetic, so the whole "insurance money" angle didn't work. It sure helped make his dad look like an even bigger bastard, though, so why not use it?
Martian Manhunter back in the day by kisskissbangbang	Dec 4th, 2003 02:39:58 AM
To Marco Xavier(great alias for a Martian Manhunter fan!): That issue you're thinking of, in which J'onn triggers the formation of the JLA, was _JLA_ # 144, by Steve Englehart, as you suggested. In it, an invasion by white Martians in 1959 sees J'onn, Supes, Bats, Flash, Aquaman & Wonder Woman, along with a couple of dozen other characters (including Congorilla if memory serves) fighting back. Though J'onn proves himself to our heroes, the populace is panicked over Martians, so Supes & some of the others decide to join forces permanently, and after the panic has died down, introduce J'onn to the world as one of them, vouching for him and reassuring the public. Even then, it was odd to read a story in 1977 in which characters talk of their adventures being 18 years before; after the Crisis, of course, this all went by the board, since Supes was no longer a founding member of the League, and even if it hadn't, 1959 was just too dated to keep as an origin year. Fun story, though, with the Blackhawks & the Challs & Roy Raymond, TV Detective. *** You asked if there was even one fan of the _House of Mystery_ Martian Manhunter run. I wouldn't call myself a fan, precisely, but I do have fond memories of one issue...# 173, I think it was... Called "So You're Faceless!",it has J'onn infiltrating a secret organization by taking the identity of a member who's just been killed. But someone knows he's an impostor and it turns out to be Faceless, the head of the organization. How does he know? Because he faked his own death, and J'onn is imitating him. Fairly clever and surprising, certainly more so than anything in other issues, or in this one, which ends with a lame fight & a bunch of explosions; but I still remember it as being one of the only times I was actually shocked at who was behind the mask when it got pulled off, so I've got to give it some props.
I was driving in my car the other day, listening to a CD and thi by mortsleam	Dec 4th, 2003 01:24:17 PM
Something about a Coldplay song being a perfect match for a Watchmen trailer or some nonsense. Then it hit me. The CD I was listening to, Radiohead's "Hail to the Thief" IS the soundtrack to Watchmen -- The Musical. Just a thought. Hrm. Looks like I'll have to buy Elfquest again. This is getting worse than Evil Dead AND the White Album put together. grumblegrumble...
Good God by Fuzzyjefe	Dec 4th, 2003 07:38:51 PM
Ultimates #12. Absolute bad ass. This is just about my favorite single comic of the year.
Ultimates #12 by Louis Cyphre	Dec 5th, 2003 06:38:30 AM
Oh, man that was good. The first page made the wait worthwhile! And they've got Cap's personality DOWN. I love his no-nonsense military style in this book, and some of the art for his sections was superb (SPOILING! ...especially the backflip from the jet). Written brilliantly, drawn beautifully - I really can't praise Ultimates enough, in a guilty-Bruckheimer-movie sort of way... :)
ultimates#12 by oat soda	Dec 5th, 2003 03:35:02 PM
DO THIS THINK THIS LETTER ON MY HEAD STANDS FOR FRANCE? brilliant
Ultimate Cap by Fuzzyjefe	Dec 5th, 2003 10:24:42 PM
Right on Louis. Millar has nailed the good captain. This isn't some costumed superhero, he's a badass supersoldier that just woke up from the 1940s. I can't wait to see how many people whine about that France bit, without stopping to think that it is totally understandable that he would say that, having only been removed from the attitudes of the 40s for a few weeks or months. I hope they keep up this idea that Cap acts like he's never heard of political correctness, which he probably hasn't.
kisskiss... by Marco_Xavier	Dec 6th, 2003 07:22:40 AM
Thanks for the info. I've really got to get my hands on that JLofA issue eventually. It sounds very cool. Also, while I'm interested only because of J'Onn, his early HoM run was a kitch delight. Zook's dialogue was inane to the point of pricelessness, and Professor Hugo was surprisingly brutal for the time. The VULTURE stuff was alright, but it became your standard book without the gonzo charm of the Diabolu period.

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