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RETURN OF THE KING promotional footage hits online

Taken down by Poiuyt00	Jul 30th, 2003 02:32:30 PM
already gone
Looks great, but I hope it's not the trailer. by The Grin	Jul 30th, 2003 02:32:32 PM
Everything in it is grey. Grey grey grey grey grey. Still, Gandalf versus Nazgul looks like the prelude to some serious smackdown.
SKLUTE I'm FIRST by turbonerd	Jul 30th, 2003 02:33:00 PM

looks good but by McLuvin	Jul 30th, 2003 02:49:39 PM
i'm with you harry. i think this is from that 10 minute preview from Two Towers.
Theatrical Edition DVD preview by Mostholy	Jul 30th, 2003 03:03:49 PM
It's pretty obviously the preview that'll be on TTT-Theatrical. For one, the DVD comes out in a month, and somebody got their hands on an advance copy and digitized it. For another, it accords completely with the spy reports coming out of Comicon ("fool's hope," battle scenes,e tc.), which was billed as a special sneak look at the TTT-theatrical preview. Anyway, it looks awesome and I'm very glad to have gotten a copy before New Line dropped the hammer. Don't you LOVE how Harry has to write it up that he's had it for a week, just so he can act like he could've dropped it on us had he desired? Bleah.
Fell beasts, fogis, fools and Frodo by Darth Sticky	Jul 30th, 2003 03:04:13 PM
I saw it just minutes before New Line encouraged TheOneRing.net to strike it. I'm thinkin' this whole thing is one battle, I mean, that's what Tolkien wrote in ROTK. If it wasn't full on battle, it was detailed descriptions of scenery. Shelob's Lair looks to be about what I imagined it to be. Merry and Pippen look like they get split up, like they did in the book. The Fell beasts are BADASS!! I hope New Line can give us more than that though. Regardless, I'm still excited. But after ROTK...well...what do I have to look forward to (aside from owning the DVDs)? Star Wars? George Lucas sucks, and this teaser evinced that statement 10 fold!!
RotK by SpaceBar	Jul 30th, 2003 03:35:17 PM
At least TheOneRing.net had the guts to post it initially, and funny, they didn't seem to have any trouble with the .rar file...
Two Words by Irving1963	Jul 30th, 2003 08:45:33 PM
Film Hobbit
Looks like Reign of Fire... by Lord_Soth	Jul 31st, 2003 04:07:21 AM
And that was bad.
coughoneweekcoughrarfilecoug hbullshitcough by earthworm	Jul 31st, 2003 04:07:30 AM
What? Anyway, trailer kicks ass, in an understated, velvet booted kind of way. Could have used more Shelob though.
You can get it at... by Denki	Jul 31st, 2003 04:09:04 AM
http://www.empiremovies.com/mo vies/lord_of_the_rings/return_ of_the_king/index.shtml
Err, Lord Soth by earthworm	Jul 31st, 2003 04:09:49 AM
You didn't get yours from Kazaa did you? Cos the trailers I downloaded from there were fakes, intercut with Reign of Fire and hurriedly renamed by some ASSHOLES. Just wondrin.
looks good but by DarthHomercles	Jul 31st, 2003 04:16:41 AM
Where's the giant spider footage? Dragons a plenty, but no money shot! Gah!
Fuck they took it down. Harry if you want any street cred whatso by IndustryKiller	Jul 31st, 2003 04:22:40 AM
I don't care if New Line will just shut it down an hour later or if your afraid of incurring their wrath, get it up and online. It's your job and responsibility as the founder of this film news website and you owe it to us. I would have gotten the link sooner if this site had wanted to load to begin with.
Yah! ROTK velvety dark chocolate goodness! by AliceInWonderlnd	Jul 31st, 2003 04:40:20 AM
Otherwise known as "Hobbits on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown". It may be being taken down all over the show, but it is knocking around still in less savoury corners of the internet. Many incarnations of it retain the name rotk768.mov so I'd try a search. I've certainly got mine and I'm quite pleased, sound issues notwithstanding. It's got this kind of extreme downer atmosphere which is very nice. The bit with Gollum looks super-cool. But it doesn't look like a trailer, I think it must have been pulled from the preview, though it's not very long and I thought the preview on the divida would have been longer. But that's probably wishful thinking on my part.
oh no, here comes the LOTR vs StarWars vs Matrix bullshit by CuervoJones	Jul 31st, 2003 04:59:33 AM
just enjoy the 3 sagas
re: earthworm by Lord_Soth	Jul 31st, 2003 05:01:19 AM
No, I'm not using KaZaA (and any other spyware). It was downloaded from a fansite, rotk_mpeg4.mov, 8758169 bytes, is this your version?
Lord Soth by earthworm	Jul 31st, 2003 05:08:20 AM
Can't remember, I'm at work now so haven't got the file to hand. Remember it being about 10meg though. But, if it's got actual fire breathing Dragons in its one of the fakes. The real one has got a couple of shots of Nazgul on winged beasts, one attacking some fortifications, another setting down in front of Gandalf, and Gollum talking to his reflection in a pond, then splashing the water (which was COOL) amongst other things. Hope that helps.
Hey another gay ass movie about prancing elves and midgets! by Sea Bass	Jul 31st, 2003 05:11:18 AM
Just throw the fucking ring in the volcano already. Talk about a paper thin story build up by a bunch of pretentious duckwads. Jeebus.
...that's "built" and "dickwads" by Sea Bass	Jul 31st, 2003 05:12:19 AM

Almost forgot by earthworm	Jul 31st, 2003 05:12:36 AM
Star Wars is SOOOOO lame.
Ooh, lovely. It's nice to see that normal service has resumed. by AliceInWonderlnd	Jul 31st, 2003 05:23:04 AM

empiremovies link WORKS. by FNORDknt	Jul 31st, 2003 05:27:25 AM
Very genuine..."Is their hope gandolf for frodo and sam" BADASS...I suggest hurrying...
I don't think I'm exactly going out on a limb by Heleno	Jul 31st, 2003 05:31:12 AM
when I say that it looks like PJ has kept his standards up. Oh my. Roll on December.
re[2]: earthworm by Lord_Soth	Jul 31st, 2003 05:39:37 AM
Thanks, alreay got it in a different format, the same clip. The colortone and the dragon objects (and animation) are obviously Reign of Fire style. Of course that means almost nothing, RoF's weakness was not the CGI.
Return of the Jackson by MichaelJackson	Jul 31st, 2003 05:46:40 AM
Cha-mone muther fuckers, Jackson is back. I tell thee now, ROTK looks to eclipse all thats gone before, I hope that turkey neck mutha fucka Luca$ see's this movie and gives up! Da-Hee-Hee.
Bittorrent users get the file here.. by Schmiggy JK	Jul 31st, 2003 06:26:41 AM
www.suprnova.org get the 23 meg quick time version, on the movie section, its watchable quality, and might I add... this movie looks bad ass...
Fucking hell... by Y282	Jul 31st, 2003 06:33:04 AM
...we have a winner.
about the video. by Schmiggy JK	Jul 31st, 2003 06:41:15 AM
Ya, thank god im not stupid to host it this time. The FLOOD of requests I got for the Anakin picture from the hyperspace webcam was insane, never will I wonder about this sites popularity again.
the return of the king seen I have by Disco Banes	Jul 31st, 2003 06:57:02 AM
Well, that looked really really really great; Especially the yelling/dying gondor-soldiers. Come december, all shall yell for a worldwide filmcelebration.
You hear, but you don't listen by Ribbons	Jul 31st, 2003 06:58:24 AM
Harry will have no street cred if he doesn't put this ad hoc preview back online? Did we read the same fucking article? Even if he WERE inclined to disregard any cease-and-desist orders from New Line, he can't get the file on his server. He made a magnificently unsuccessful attempt to wrangle the thing onto AICN over the last week, but there's nothing doing, and if TheOneRing.net took it down, there's nothing to be done. That kind of attitude irks me: there's so much damn vitriol on this site because nobody cares about what anybody else says, only the sound of their own voices. "Harry sucks, blah blah blah..." ...we know you wanna see the footage pal, but you're not gonna die if you have to wait for another month. I'm sure the "agony" that you endure right now is nothing compared to what would happen to Harry and this site if he flipped New Line the bird and pirated their stuff.
the man above is right by Spuggy the Buggy	Jul 31st, 2003 07:03:16 AM
i saw it too. It's revolution time december 17th, have faith and trust in the Lord of the Rings. It will be concluded as the greatest film ever.
30mb version here by BrianWilson	Jul 31st, 2003 07:21:23 AM
http://img-nex.theonering.net/ movies/rotk_768.mov this trailer is very cool indeed, those 'dying soilders of gondor' are actually Merry and Pippin! .
WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE: THE FOOTAGE IS ONLINE!!! by Biko Salamar	Jul 31st, 2003 07:22:54 AM
it is mirrored on many sites, the 23 mega version is here: http://saroumaneforum.free.fr/ rotk.mov download it and watch it! it's great!
Nagging Question from 'T2T' that I hope someone has the answer t by Ribbons	Jul 31st, 2003 07:23:08 AM
I've asked this once before a whole back: I don't understand Elrond's prediction for Arwen's future. If she willingly forsakes immortality in the name of love in the first film, why does she seem to be under the impression that she'll live on, alone, until the end of days during the second film? I understand she might also be sad because her father is painting an allegory for how her ties will be severed from the elves, but that can't be all there is to it. I'm feeling a bit thicke here, and you certainly have the right to tell me so, but I'd appreciate any closure I can garner from this issue for my own peace of mind. I snuck a peek at the trailer and it's mighty fine indeed. Reminds me (aesthetically) of 'Labyrinth' for some reason. I had a lot of misgivings about 'Towers' (in relative terms), but the series as a whole looks very promising. Judging from this trailer, the Kiwi Crew know exactly what they're doing.
Star Wars rules by Indiana Clones	Jul 31st, 2003 07:30:25 AM
Rings Of The Mud sucks. Enjoy your elves and mud, losers
I'm with Ribbons by earthworm	Jul 31st, 2003 07:38:41 AM
Never thought I'd say, mind. I don't get the Arwen thing either, she says it about three times in FOTR that she forsakes her immortality. And the other chick (the statue) died as well in the same situation, so, huh? Also, disappointed as I was by TTT, I can feel myself getting hyped up again already. This is going to be a long 4 1/2 months.
There seem to be 2 versions of the trailer by Avon	Jul 31st, 2003 07:50:45 AM
a 10 mb version and a 30 mb version with better picture, slightly smaller but with sound out of sync and skips. Which size leaked on theonering.net?
Explaining why Arwen would live on... by Specter22	Jul 31st, 2003 07:54:41 AM
Okay, for those that didn't understand Elrond's little diatribe about Arwen living on long after Aragorn's passing, read on, lest you haven't read the books, and this will then ruin a big part of the story for you. Anyway, BOOK SPOILERS IN TEN.....NINE.....EIGHT.....SEV EN.....SIX.....FIVE.....FOUR.. ...THREE.....TWO.....ONE.....S till with me? Okay. In the books, in the Appendix of the story, Arwen does live on, and wanders the forests, hence the shots of her in the forest. She eventually does die, but because she is Elvish, she has a much longer lifespan than Aragorn, even though she is mortal like he is. She does live on, and slowly grow old. Just because she's given up her immortality, it doesn't change her physically so that she'll start to age faster, just spiritually, whereas she'll eventually die.
Another "gay ass" post by a guy with the name of a sport fish as by Pontsing Barset	Jul 31st, 2003 07:57:59 AM
... another paper thin excuse for for a sentient bipod...
The Arwen question by Judo John	Jul 31st, 2003 08:03:32 AM
Arwen's misgivings in The Two Towers are not about her continuing to be immortal after Aragorn dies; they are about growing old alone. Elves grow very old. When they've had enough of Middle-Earth, they go to the Grey Havens, from where they sail to some fairyland where they live in peace forever. This is their own special brand of immortality. When she chooses to marry Aragorn, Arwen renounces the right to sail to the land of her ancestors. However, she still has an elf's lifespan, and so outlives Aragorn, who is but a mortal (albeit one with an extraordinarily long lifespan himself).
Ahh...I see.....I guess by Ribbons	Jul 31st, 2003 08:17:37 AM
Thank you, fellas. And earthworm, what the hell is that supposed to mean? I didn't realize I had a reputation for being a doofus or anything like that. Oh God....they're all looking at me!
The statue in FOTR is of Aragorn's mother Gilraen, a mortal wom by Skyway Moaters	Jul 31st, 2003 08:18:17 AM
... What Arwen is giving up is her right to return to Eressea in the 'undying lands'. Her 'span' will not be lessened per se, but she will be forever sundered from her 'immortal' kindred: No ships left at the havens to take her to Valinor. She in essence gives up her seat on the boat to Frodo. Even if after Argorn dies she recants and wishes to depart Middle earth for Elvenhome, she has no way to get there. The Valar aren't going to send a boat especially for her, because she chose to share "The Doom of/Gift to Men", IE: Death - a choice available to all of the Half-Elven race.
Right, OK, by earthworm	Jul 31st, 2003 08:32:09 AM
I think I get that, but what about the guy above who says she gives up her seat to Frodo? Or is that supposed to be Aragorn? And Ribbons, we had a little spat in a Harry Potter TB once, nothing personal ;-)
earthworm by Judo John	Jul 31st, 2003 08:50:15 AM
Want to know to whom Arwen gives up her seat on the last ship that sails to Elvenhome? Patience, man. The Return of the King will answer all your questions. Of course, you could also try reading the book. :-)
Shit just remembered by earthworm	Jul 31st, 2003 08:58:32 AM
I've actually read the book about five or six times. It's been about 18 months since last time. Was always unsure whether to just watch the films without mentally comparing them to the book, couldn't help it with TTT though. Got a big ass
earthworm by Judo John	Jul 31st, 2003 09:08:10 AM
Unless I'm very much mistaken, the bit about, um, X taking Arwen's seat on the last ship is in the final chapter of the book, not the appendices. That said, you might want to pay a bit more attention to the appendices; some of the more interesting parts of the story are in there rather than the main body of the book. But to answer your question about the Silmarillion: nope, I've never managed to get through it. I'll make a valiant new attempt by the time I've finished the His Dark Materials trilogy, though. My third, I believe.
The whole Arwen thing by Heleno	Jul 31st, 2003 09:11:11 AM
Elrond is sometimes referred to as "Elrond Half-Elven" for obvious reasons, which means his daughter too has human blood in her veins. It also means that Elrond saw both his brothers choose humanity, and fade and die, which may explain something of his bitterness to men (if I remember my Silmarilion correctly). The choice she makes does renounce the Elven immortality (give or take) but she will still live a very long time. Aragorn, meanwhile, is something of an evolutionary throwback to the early men of Numenor who lived for hundreds of years. As for her seat on the boat, danged if I can remember exactly how that goes, and I read the bloody thing every year for the last couple of decades. Wasn't Sam offered a place too?
Do we have a winner? by earthworm	Jul 31st, 2003 09:24:21 AM
Helano, was that a subtle indication you made it through the Simarillion? Well done. I'll send you a prize. Or something. I think a few peole were offered a seat, and now I'm having trouble remembering who did and didn't go. Though Judo, you're right, it is in the final chapter. Apparantly in the XTTT DVD Aragorn is revealed to be a sprightly 83.
Earthworm: If you, as you claim, have read the book 5 or 6 times by Skyway Moaters	Jul 31st, 2003 09:25:10 AM
From RotK Cahpter VI: "Many Partings": ...But Queen Arwen said: "A gift I will give you [Frodo]. For I am the daughter of Elrond. I shall not go with him now when he departs to the Havens; for mine is the choice of Luthien, and as she so have I chosen, both the sweet and the bitter. But in my stead you shall go, Ring-bearer, when the time comes, and if you then desire it. If your hurts grieve you still and the memory of your burden is heavy, then you may pass into the West, until all your wounds and weariness are healed." *** As for the Silmarillion, I know plenty of folks who have finished it; and believe it or not, some of us have actually studied it in depth and repeatedly since it's publication in 1977.
Heleno by Judo John	Jul 31st, 2003 09:25:34 AM
If my memory serves me well (but I'm perfectly willing to concede that it may not, in this instance), Sam is not offered a seat on the ship, despite... ah, you know what. Because he only... nah, let's not spoil it for those who haven't read the book. Anyhow, I think the answer to your question is no. Frankly, though, it doesn't matter, given the choice he makes in the end.
ARP! "SHOULD" not "SHOULS" by Skyway Moaters	Jul 31st, 2003 09:26:35 AM

SPOILERS!!! Just so you know... by AliceInWonderlnd	Jul 31st, 2003 09:35:11 AM
Arwen stays in Middle Earth with Aragorn not just because the boat won't take her (after all, boats appear later that take Sam, and Legolas builds the boat that takes him and Gimli, and Aragorn suggests on his deathbed that she could still go to the Havens cap in hand if she really wanted to) but because if she goes to the Undying Lands she will be seperated from Aragorn forever. He is a Man and the Doom (previously the Gift) of Man is to have his spirit leave the Circles of the World and go on to... whatever. Whereas Elves always exist physically in the Undying Lands. Therefore, to be united with Aragorn forever beyond the world ("where there is more than memory") she has to die. This is the choice that she makes. In other news, the book never makes clear how long after Aragorn that Arwen dies, but if memory serves, it wasn't that long. She dies of grief, essentially, after returning to Lothlorien which is effectively empty and decayed now that Nenya (Galadriel's Ring) has departed across the Sea. She lays herself on a hillock under a tree and dies. Now, in the book, Arwen gives Frodo a "white jewel" that she wears around her neck to comfort him, and it's essentially implied that she gives up her place in the boat for him since it is forseen by Gandalf, amongst others, that Frodo is so fucked up by the Quest that he'll never find healing in Middle Earth. I don't know if you'd call it a one for one exchange of tickets though, since Bilbo goes too. What happened is that Arwen probably interceded with Gandalf, and he, being an angelic creature, sorted it out. Also, just because the Hobbits go to the Undying Lands does not mean that they stay alive forever, any more than Gimli would - but they do get to choose the time of their own deaths, which ironically is what Aragorn does when he dies, dying in late middle age (for a Numenorean) rather than descending into drooling coffin-dodgerdom.
Judo John... SPOILERS! by AliceInWonderlnd	Jul 31st, 2003 09:38:44 AM
Sam does apparently take the boat, at the very end of his long life after Rosie dies. However, it's in the Appendices and not referred to in the text proper.
Actually Sam DOES go to the Havens... by Skyway Moaters	Jul 31st, 2003 09:40:40 AM
... shortly after Mistress dies (it's in the appedices of LotR). So all three Ringbearers: Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam end up in Valinor...
And now we see the darker side of the LOTR TBs by earthworm	Jul 31st, 2003 09:43:34 AM
What can I say, I read a lot. Memory wise, the story for me pretty much stops when they win. I always (though probably won't again) forget about the boat bit and the scouring. And it wasn't a jibe at the Silmarillion, just the fact that I know a lot of people who have started it, you and Helano are the first people I've met (sort of) who've finished the thing. I think my next fantasy will be his Dark Materials though. I keep hearing a lot of good things.
Oh, and Skyway, your knowledge is admirable by earthworm	Jul 31st, 2003 09:44:54 AM
but not everyone as read the books (even once) so you might like to think of some spoiler warnings next time
I was only able to download half the movie... by GypsyTRobot	Jul 31st, 2003 09:47:07 AM
up until Gollum appeared. What did I miss in the second half? + Man you post RoTK, Spiderman and Harry Potter stuff on the same day, this site goes keblewy. And I was having a high old time on the Transformers TB...
Alice, I kneel before your altar by Judo John	Jul 31st, 2003 09:48:34 AM
You see, this is why I never participate in any of the tailenders' discussions; because there are always talkbackers whose knowledge of the book (or books, if you want to include the Silmarillion) is much more acute than mine. You are of course absolutely right, as a careful re-reading of both the final chapter and the appendices will prove. Can I get up now?
Nicely done Alice!... by Skyway Moaters	Jul 31st, 2003 09:48:55 AM
...and what you said is what i meant; I just didn't say it nearly as clearly...
It's damn cool by MinasTirithII	Jul 31st, 2003 09:49:47 AM
First, Star Wars sucks, take your drivel elsewhere..................... ..................... Gandalf, be wary of the Fell Beast, take heed of Shadowfax as the black rider confronts you. Fear not the words of that black rider, for he speaks lies and abominations.................. .............................. ......... Gandlaf vs Black Rider, simpy awesome and a great build up and perfect mesh of Shadowfax slowing to a step then stepping backwards as the Fell Beast lands and move forward to confront Gandalf further. Chills!
Sorry 'bout dem spoilers Oitwoim... by Skyway Moaters	Jul 31st, 2003 09:52:53 AM
... but I don't think most-O-this crap is going to by dealt with in the movie excepty in the most cursory of fashions. I will howover include a spoiler warning from now on. Sorry again everyone. Namarie, Trubba Not. SM{;-0
ARP AGAIN! Mistress ROSE... by Skyway Moaters	Jul 31st, 2003 09:55:06 AM
... I need to learn to type someday!
Well, perhaps it's not a spoiler as such by earthworm	Jul 31st, 2003 10:01:18 AM
But Sam being a SPOILER ringbearer END SPOILER might be news to a few. I've never participated in on of these tailenders before, sorry if I'm treading on any toes ;-)
AliceInWonderlnd is correct by djinnj	Jul 31st, 2003 10:07:41 AM
Arwen, as all elves can, dies of sorrow and is rejoined with Aragorn after death (rather than going to the halls of Mandos). And also, that the elves do not die of old age or illness because it is in their natures, not a characteristic of Valinor. Therefore, hobbits, dwarves, and other non-elves would live out their natural life spans in Valinor. And no, Earendil doesn't count. He was half-elven, and given the choice which was also given to his wife, Elwing, and their sons, Elrond and Elros. The fall of Numenor was precipitated precisely because of a rise in Numenorean paranoia about elvish immortality. The corrupt king finally outright disbelieved the explanation for the elves 'undyingness' and attempted an invasion (despite the ban on sailing too far west) which lead to the destruction of Numenor and the removal of Valinor from physical approach by sea (it's complicated). For more info the quick and easy way, check out the Encyclopedia of Arda . Or do it the fun way and read the Silmarillion. The Silmarillion and the Unfinished tales read more like history and not at all like LOTR. Just as the Book of Lost Tales reads like mythology.
TEASER TRAILER by Yako	Jul 31st, 2003 10:08:04 AM
http://www.mysan.de/article441 .html :D
taking away rotk trailers burns uuss by ethan vestby	Jul 31st, 2003 10:17:50 AM
we needs our precious,woodystiffer sucks gollum cock
Nobody Respond to Pud! or..... Please Don't Feed the Animals by Ribbons	Jul 31st, 2003 10:26:12 AM
You'll only make his appetite more voracious.
link to the trailer by Dead Megatron	Jul 31st, 2003 10:26:44 AM
For those who could not find where to download the trailer yet, it can be found on the following link: http?/www.valinor.com.br/filme /trailers/rotk_mpeg4.mov it's a brazilian tolkienian site. Hurry to it..
Undyingness by Judo John	Jul 31st, 2003 10:32:30 AM
That is a great word, Djinnj. Did you invent it yourself or is it a piece of vocabulary that I would have known if I had finished the Silmarillion? At any rate, I love it, as I love both your and Alice's elaborate responses. They make me want to (re-)read Tolkien's oeuvre right on the spot. So, er, thanks, guys. Or girls, as the case may be. Back to work now...
correction by Dead Megatron	Jul 31st, 2003 10:44:21 AM
Its not http?/..etc; it is http//...etc. Now hurry up before "they" take it away from us...
This gay hobbit shit is almost over. by elfkiller25	Jul 31st, 2003 11:14:45 AM
ThankGod this crap is about to end. Just have Gollum cut off Frodo's finger so it drops in the Volcano. Jesus Fucking H. Christ is don't take 12 hours to tell this shitty story. Its a bunch of hairy homos that gay out over some stupid ring. Ya epic, ya best film ever. Whatever. I could shit straight on any Baldwin brothers film and it would be better than this. Speaking of the Baldwins, WTF are they still doing in the country. I'd figure Bush would have them locked up by now. New Line took the trailer down because they are having regrets spreading homo propaganda. Recent polls show 94% of the populations is sick of homos, their marriage BS, their NAMBLA, LOTR trilogy, Queer eye for the Frodo Guy agenda. I wonder if PJ will make King Kong gay when he does that flick? King Kong is after a man instead of woman? These homo movies like LOTR are the reason we got attacked on 911. Another movie will just mean yet another attack.
I found a link to the trailer by q_ball206	Jul 31st, 2003 11:29:03 AM
http://home.primus.ca/~liam3/v ideo/728_rotk.mov
My friend refuses to see any promotional material / trailers bef by waylayer	Jul 31st, 2003 11:50:53 AM
...he wants to go in spoiler-free. So I guess I'll rename the file and show it to him as a "Freddy vs Jason" trailer. Poor bastard. friendswithbenefits.com
earthworm by Heleno	Jul 31st, 2003 11:57:43 AM
His Dark Materials is a very good choice - right up there with LotR and Narnia, just less pro-Christian in the subtext. And the Silmarilion is worth getting into - it reads like the legends of an entire world (for a reason) so it's heavy going and dense, but worth the effort. Plus if you remember it well enough you get to have fun in discussions like this one.
Yep, there's goes THAT plan down the toilet. by Pallando Blue	Jul 31st, 2003 11:59:31 AM
Willpower, shmillpower. I'm such a whore. But HOLY FRIJOLES that is fangoddamtastic, even with the soundtrack off sync. And whoever pointed it out, thanks! You're right! That IS Pippin holding Merry on the battlefield! Damn. (Swooners, start your engines.) As for what this is, I too think it's the final montage at the end of the DVD preview, like how the T2T preview was laid out last year. So, there's probably a buncha more footage sprinkled throughout the preview, amid all the on-set and talking head stuff. [Homer-esque slack-necked tongue-dangling drool] Lisa: "Hmm, what's another word for 'uhgughuguhuh'... How about, 'transcendant.'" H: "How about 'groin-grabbingly transcendant'!" ...Yes indeed. I declare that PJ's "Return of the King" will be "Groin-Grabbingly Transcendant" and they can blurb me on the posters with that. *** Now, here's a thought--is it me or are they not gonna have too much material to flesh out Disc 2 of the ROTK theatrical DVD next year? Bring on the WB promo shows and web shorts!
Answering Two Questions by Greenleaf1	Jul 31st, 2003 12:00:43 PM
First of all, people were saying they were disappointed that the preview of RoTK from the DVD would be larger than that. To answer that question, it will be. On the FoTR DVD the last minute and a half was footage from the movie The Two Towers, and the rest of it was BTS footage, and that's what it will be on the TTT DVD, it's just that the BTS footage wasn't added to this download. Second, people are complaining about no footage of Shelob, well unless you wanna see an extremely crappy version of the giant spider, I wouldn't be complaining because PJ and his crew aren't finished with Shelob yet. That's why we haven't seen any footage because Shelob hasn't been completely finished.
Nazgul attack! by morGoth	Jul 31st, 2003 12:34:06 PM
O yes, now THAT
WHAT?!! Is that the Verdant Trickster I see? by morGoth	Jul 31st, 2003 12:34:59 PM
Hey greeny
Good work Alice my Sweet! by morGoth	Jul 31st, 2003 01:08:29 PM

The truth atleast with a pic to prove Frodo is a Homo! by elfkiller25	Jul 31st, 2003 01:18:51 PM
This is a true movie review. http://www.landoverbaptist.org /news1202/twotowers.html The Two Towers is Homo Slang For Erect Hobbit Penises Important Notice For Christian Parents The new movie, The Two Towers makes up for its lack of on screen sex scenes with some of the most horrifying, blood wrenching violence ever to splatter the silver screen. "That's why, at first glance, the film is very appealing to True Christians
Nah, that ain't Grond, morG by Pallando Blue	Jul 31st, 2003 01:25:05 PM
Bah! That's just a log! We HAVE seen pics of the Grond miniature--and not from the game--and this lowly piece of timber ain't it. It certainly isn't carved in the form of a wolf's head (just a jagged end, like the one at HD), and that we've seen, too. This is maybe a first crack at the gates (or even into a second level of the city...?) So, like Shelob, a Grond money shot's another one held back for now. Also, that's Faramir leading that charge on horseback! Hard to tell with the helmet and PLATE ARMOR (gasp! alarum! ;) but, yep, pause it and you can make Wenham out. SHPOILER I think that's his tragic assault to retake Osgiliath, that Denethor goads him into. ...Man is that Gollum part is great. "Once the hobbitses are bit..." Heya morG, where do you see Sam with the One RIng? The opening palm shot? Hmmm! "The board is set, the pieces are moving..."
Pippen or Dernhelm [SPOILERS] by Mostholy	Jul 31st, 2003 01:33:56 PM
SPOILERS NON-TOLKIEN READERS BUG OFF. That chubby hand in the first scene doesn't have the nails bitten to the quick. Thus, it more than likely belongs to Master Gamgee. As for the figure cradling Merry at the Pelennor Fields, is that Pippen or Dernhelm? Ok, Gandalf's in the shot and the figure is wearing a elven cloak...advantage, Pippen. But Pip lost his brooch (although Aragorn hands it back in the books, right?), and Merry/Dernhelm on the field like that would make an excellent introduction to...well, you know.
Just so as to stop anything before it starts, "landoverbaptist.o by Pallando Blue	Jul 31st, 2003 01:34:46 PM
Sorry to head you off at the pass, there, elfcatcher69. That's a satire site, folx, a really pretty funny website that does a hilarious caricature of the Rich Religious Right. Never breaks character, so occasionally some poor deluded asshole thinks it's actually sincere. Read all their movie reviews! They're hilarious! But remember, the Unsaved are Not Welcome, and they WILL sue. ;)
check it out by gopherkhan	Jul 31st, 2003 01:44:45 PM
filmrot.com check it out.
elfkiller15 by yodadoggy	Jul 31st, 2003 01:52:23 PM
baker act.
it's a thought, Mostholy, but by djinnj	Jul 31st, 2003 02:21:29 PM
wouldn't that have to be Pippin? Since Dernhelm would be otherwise occupied at that moment (for the same reason Merry is 'down')? And, I can imagine the discovery of Merry by Pippin was shortened by compressing some stuff, leading to no procession to the city.
Disappointing by Fitzcarraldo	Jul 31st, 2003 02:42:54 PM
Everything's starting to look a bit samey and grey. It doesn't have anywhere near the beauty of Fellowship. Minas Tirith looks too small, the walls should be like a couple of hundred feet high and Grond looks small too, it should be the size of a Redwood tree with a thousand orcs carrying it. Sorry to bitch but I thought Two Towers was a great dissapointment after Fellowship. Only the action scenes worked for me and the last thing I want to see is more of the boring Rohan crowd.
ROTK by agadoin	Jul 31st, 2003 02:49:26 PM
I think the first shot shows Deagol holding the ring just after he finds it in the river and before Smeagol murders him. We know that there will be a flashback to this from what Andy Serkis has said. Grond is definitely in the film, apparently worked by cave trolls. The battering ram shown might just be the first one they use before bringing on the big guy. Grond's eyes will glow and it will move like it's almost alive too (according to The Making Of The Movie Trilogy book).
Okay, one last time, so everyone pay attention: That's NOT Grond by Pallando Blue	Jul 31st, 2003 02:55:04 PM
SHPOILER PIC!!! ("It's only a model." "Shut up!") http://www.quintessentialwebsi tes.com/lordoftherings/ movieshots_rotk/pv_grond_circl e.jpg [delete the space before "movie"] And, yeah, it'll prob'ly be pulled by oliphaunts and wielded by trolls. Oh yeah. Uh huh. That's the stuff.
Agadoin, you're right! So is Djinnj. [SPOILERS] by Mostholy	Jul 31st, 2003 03:01:41 PM
[SPOILERS NON-TOLKIEN READERS GO AWAY] Agadoin, I think you're right! I was wondering where Sam could be holding the ring in such a green place AFTER Cirith Ungol. Deagol makes much more sense...and that dirt in his hand is the Anduin river silt we see floating around in FOTR ("until, when chance came, it snared a new bearer.") Good eye. Djinnj, now that I think about it, you're probably right too...looks like I went 0 for 2.
It looks grey for a reason. by BigPoppi	Jul 31st, 2003 03:55:59 PM
I've read every TB on this subject and a few times people have said how grey and lackluster the footage looks. How LOTR had so much color and was so vibrant and full of life. Let's put it into perspective then. LOTR the world is still blissfully unaware of Sauron and his re-emergence and rise to power in Mordor. In TTT we begin to see just how desperate the situation will become and in ROTK we are at the brink of destruction for the realms of free men. I loved the footage that theonering.net got out to us. Very somber, very desperate. We all know that good triumphs over evil in the end, but Peter Jackson has put together a very grey, very bleak world in ROTK. A world with very little hope for the future. He has pegged it again at this first glance and I cannot wait for December 17th.
Shame on Lucas! LOTR rules! by krylite	Jul 31st, 2003 04:14:08 PM
The trailer was awesome. The AOTC trailer looked like a teen skit by comparison. Yes, elves can either die by being killed or from grief and losing the will to live, or go into the west. OF course it looks grey, at this time in the story, Sauron's dark mist has OVERSHADOWED everything bringing a gloom to everyone and everything spreading all over Ithilien and to Minas Tirith streching out like a hand. It said so very cleary in the book duh. READ the book DUH!! I can't believe after all this time after the first two movies have shown, that lots of LOTR audiences still haven't read the book! Or worse, a lot say they've read the book to look cool, but they haven't.
KAZAA by WoodyStiffer	Jul 31st, 2003 04:20:40 PM
The file's up on Kazaa for anyone who wants to watch it.
I Have The New Trailer by tallmanvan	Jul 31st, 2003 04:25:27 PM
The one that I have was talked about on Empire, for those of us paying attention, and it runs a little over 90 seconds (about 94). It opens with Pippin asking Gandalf if there was any hope for Frodo and Sam, with Gandalf saying something like "Only a fool's hope." There isn't much in the way of spoilers happening on it, but it is legitimate ROTK footage...there was one particularly cool scene where a Winged Nazgul is shown attacking a guard posted at the top of Minas Tirith's walls. There was another cool shot of Gandalf riding Shadowfax to the top of the walls as the armies of Mordor approached the walls of Minas Tirith, having overrun the Pellennor Fields, and all you can see are orcs and trolls and siege towers (!!) filling the horizon...WAY more massive-looking than the assault on Helm's Deep. This trailer also teases Gollum's betrayal of Frodo and Sam, and shows them in Shelob's lair (which looks suitably Lovecraftian and creepy). Near the end, there's a great shot of Gandalf and Pippin on Shadowfax confronting the Lord of the Nazgul and then it cuts to the banner. At this point, given all the rumors and false starts and other nonsense happening, I'm tickled to death to have what I have, and I can't wait for the extended preview in the TTT theatrical release DVD.
It's not Gronds! by RingLordRules	Jul 31st, 2003 04:32:14 PM
I believe the footage we are seeing not at the gate of MinatTirith but at the fallen city of Osgiliath. Many of the shots of foghting and soldiers is ther and not Minas Tirith. I thing the Battering Ram is at the ruins of Osgiliath not Grond at the great gate. The look is abit gray... the Pelennor Fields should be GREEN! Lets hope some of this is footage before the Black Gate on the Dagorlad!
I dunno Pallando by morGoth	Jul 31st, 2003 04:51:38 PM

tallmanvan... by morGoth	Jul 31st, 2003 04:53:07 PM
...how do you know that's the Lord of the Nazgul?
Wow! Finally! by morGoth	Jul 31st, 2003 05:00:18 PM
Congrats to both trollers Pud! and elf_kisser69...you actually came up with something funny! Well, at least Pud! was his usual creative self but, natch, our little e_k resorted to a cut-n-paste. Pretty damned funny though and thank'ee kindly for the larf!
ROTK Trailer STILL ONLINE!! by Senshine	Jul 31st, 2003 05:01:10 PM
See it at : www.lightsoutentertainment.com /movies/film.php?3
I'll tell you where you've seen the model pic before, morG by Pallando Blue	Jul 31st, 2003 05:18:46 PM
A quick flip through "The Making Of The Movie Trilogy" and it's right there on page 61, top center! SPOILER-quotin' here: ...[Grond] takes the form of a huge, snarling wolf--its hide, of beaten metal, inscribed with Black Speech--chained up within a great cage on wheels. "The plan," explains Richard [Taylor], "is for it to be pushed by trolls; Orc archers will be riding on the top and there will be burning braziers discharging blinding clouds of black, oily smoke. As Grond swings to and fro and smashes at the gates, it will almost be as though the creature were desperately trying to break free from its shackles." ......Aaaaand, I'm spent. >thud
Grond, Newt of the Underworld! by morGoth	Jul 31st, 2003 05:36:16 PM
Aw, I'm not sayin' it ain't what you sez Pallando just that from what we know from the books, there was no other battering ram sequence mentioned. It might be, as RingLordRules sez, at Osgiliath. Heh, the one in the trailer looks like it has a lizard or newt head, yes? Ooooo, they're coming at us with Giant Morgul Amphibian Logs, the fiends!
Amazon.com has 2 TT features by GypsyTRobot	Jul 31st, 2003 05:51:35 PM
of course you have to pre-order one or both of the DVD's. One is on Gandalf and the other, the filming of Helm's Deep. Don't get too excited, it doesn't show anything really interesting besides Sala Baker talking about standing around at 2 AM in Uruk Hai armor. and King Theoden looking like a Chicago "Da Bears" kinda guy, with short hair and a soup-strainer mustasche.
Tis a lovely thing we're all talking ROTK again by The Red One	Jul 31st, 2003 06:00:50 PM
Hand at the begining - why can't it be Smeagols? That's my thought. After close, very close, pondering of the film (GEEK!) I do believe that's Merry and Pippin with Gandalf in the background. Merry lying and yelling in pain - Pippin holding him. It's an odd angle but the person has a little pointed chin just like Billy has (too cute) and is wearing an elven cloak and brooch (which Aragorn would have given back at Orthanc). Seems to me that maybe PJ is combining story lines since the book had 2 big battles and Merry and Pippin never were on a battlefield together. Makes more cinematic sense to combine them and have one fabulous all out war.
"You don't deserve shit?" by Ribbons	Jul 31st, 2003 06:12:04 PM
Well that's a little harsh, don't you think?
all out war by agadoin	Jul 31st, 2003 06:25:31 PM
Yeah, hand at the beginning is definitely Smeagol's or Deagol's I reckon, complete with river mud. I'm sure we'll be given both the Pelennor Field and Black Gate battles in the film. Aragorn (with Gondorian King's Armor showing the white tree on his chest) is in this trailer running forward with his sword into battle which could only be after he's entered Minas Tirith surely? I think we've got footage from both battles here. If the column of soldiers headed by Aragorn/Elessar plus Gandalf, Legolas etc is leaving the city, where are they going? Must be the Black Gate.
all out war by agadoin	Jul 31st, 2003 06:30:54 PM
well..maybe not entered the city, just succesfully defended it. It's been a while since I read the book.
Rings Geeks by WoodyStiffer	Jul 31st, 2003 06:44:09 PM
Someone mentioned in another talkback that serious comic book fans are the new "Star Trek Geeks". I think Lord of the Rings fans may have them beat. Debating over what color a field should be? Sheesh.. "HEY, THAT JERKY HALF FRAME SURE LOOKED LIKE..."
Merry and Pippin hanging out on Pellenor Fields SPOILERS! by AliceInWonderlnd	Jul 31st, 2003 06:52:13 PM
They don't fight together, certainly, but it's Pippin that actually finds Merry straggling in to Minas Tirith after Eowyn gets carried away off the battlefield and Merry gets overlooked. In the book I think Pippin meets him in the City, after he's left the battlefield, and sees him to the Houses of Healing, but there's probably not that much in Pippin finding him on the fields or in the City, depends on how PJ stages it all. It makes absolutely no odds either way, really, except from a Purist perspective ("Down, boy!"). Two more things - thanks Judo John, that's a really nice thing to say! Don't know how true it is. Secondly, Elfy... you know I admire your persistence in clinging, barnacle-like, to the bottom of the whole LOTR phenomenon (from some of your posts I suspect you cling to a lot of bottom, it's a lifestyle thing). But lifting whole articles from Landoverbaptist.com... and anyway, that's old news. And PUD!, too! Finally it's starting to feel like a TB again - in that it makes me feel like I need a bath. For the longest time, I thought I'd never see anyone write "SW rulez lotr sucks lol" or one of the several billion permutations thereof ever again. I lost sleep over it, I can tell you...
Miss Alice by The Red One	Jul 31st, 2003 07:28:34 PM
I wonder....maybe Pip does go out to find Merry and that's what we're seeing. More drama than Merry stumbling into the city on his own. I wonder if PJ is doing the Denethor burning bit since that's what kept Gandalf off the field in the first place. I'm sure we're seeing two battle scenes the Rohan charging one to save Minas Tirith and the one in front of the Black Gate. Maybe That's the shot of Gandalf with Pippin on the back of Shadowfax leaving Minas Tirith with the Nazgul landing in front - maybe they are riding to the battlefield to help the Rohirrim and find Merry etc (after having dealt with Denethor)? Maybe. I can't wait till December.
So, will the gay relationship between Frodo and Sam by HeitorTP	Jul 31st, 2003 07:38:54 PM
be further explored? I am also confused as to why Sam calls Frodo "Mr. Frodo" as he's clearly more manly than girly Frodo.
YOUR SERVER SUCKS ANYWAY by PlantBoy!	Jul 31st, 2003 08:23:40 PM
Maybe the problem is that you keep using cgi scripts, rather than something multithreaded. Upgrade, you sloppy bitch!
Alice heard shouting Gadzookss near Budge Ford! by morGoth	Jul 31st, 2003 08:23:51 PM
So Gadzookss, does that mean The Peter
Blockheaded Wallbuilder! by morGoth	Jul 31st, 2003 08:25:16 PM
Look at all the links on this very TB! Go now...
The Silmarillion by Miami Mofo	Jul 31st, 2003 08:41:17 PM
morGoth, believe it or not, I started to re-read it again while waiting in the emergency room on Monday afternoon. [The reason I was there, along with the day-delayed weekly Wednesday countdown (thanks for trying to post it yesterday, DoT) can be found in the previous TB.] Now, where exactly can I find this trailer?
This one's got the sound synced by Pallando Blue	Jul 31st, 2003 08:46:29 PM
Miami, Ingold, get it from www.filmrot.com (thanks whoever posted that one!) The color's a little more faded and the image isn't as sharp, but if that's the trade-off for synced voices (for the next 4 weeks...) then I'll take it.
Thanks for the link, P.B. by Miami Mofo	Jul 31st, 2003 09:06:00 PM
I had tried four of the others, and was only able to hear it on one of 'em, while the rest had taken it down. ***And now for some important stuff -- we're numero tres while you're number ten, which is better than any of the ACC teams, I believe.
In case anyone thinks I'm a purist by daughter of time	Jul 31st, 2003 09:32:38 PM
I am completely up for Pippin finding Merry on the battlefield, instead of coming through the gate. This is crunching, not revisionism. ***And c'mon, Heitor, listen to the dialogue even if you haven't read the book. Sam is Frodo's employee. If you can't tell the difference in social class from the accents, try the line in TTT: "His gardener." Or did you think Sam was being sarcastic?
Link to Screen Caps by daughter of time	Jul 31st, 2003 09:34:48 PM
http://www.dailydigest.net/pre viewrotkteaser01.html
Which picture will beat ROTK at Oscar time? by HeitorTP	Jul 31st, 2003 09:55:02 PM
I say either "The Missing" as Ron Howard goes for 2 in a row against Jackson.....or Cold Mountain, the star studded Miramax spectacular, epic Civil War film.
Frodo and Sam by WoodyStiffer	Jul 31st, 2003 10:25:56 PM
The reason that Sam calls Frodo "Mr. Frodo" is that, despite his more manly appearance, he is actually the "BITCH" or "THE BOTTOM" in their gay hobbit relationship. Gollum is simply there in a voyeuristic role.
It's official, LOTR fanatics have passed Star War fanatics in th by El_Barstardo	Jul 31st, 2003 10:33:25 PM
Yeah, I love the films and books too, but for God's sake will some of you people have a look at yourselves? I can actually hear the salivating as I read these talkbacks. And what is with the bragging because you have read the Simarilion (sp?) "More times than you can count" - here is an idea, why don't you try reading some OTHER books sometime? You know, the events don't change the 57th time you have read them. And whats with all the drolling over Alice? Just because she has read LOTR doesn't mean you all need to suddenly start stumbling over yourselves like Hugh Grant in "bumbling englishman mode" (the only mode hje is ever in) - I'm especially looking at you morGoth. "Alice, my Sweet", jesus, someone pass around the collection plate so we can get this guy laid already.
Go ahead, Orion'sAngel!!! by Devil'sOwn	Jul 31st, 2003 11:05:53 PM
I could not have said it better myself. Props to you.
It's called being polite. El-Bastardo, by Conan_the_Humble	Aug 1st, 2003 12:02:45 AM
Oh and clever name too. You call us dweebs but are apparently coming out of your way to bag us. Who's the bigger dweeb? At least we're talking about something we enjoy. Why don't you head back to your SW tb's where you will at least be welcomed. Oh and nice trailer too. Much better than what New Line has given us. Long live the Internet... Cheers.
Umm, conan... by El_Barstardo	Aug 1st, 2003 12:23:42 AM
At what point in time did I say I like SW? Im not against discussing a film, but if you can't smell the absolute geek stench of some of the talkbacks in here, better go buy some codril. As far as this 'trailer' goes, it's all pretty ho-hum to me. Looks like TTT with nothing really new in it, giving it that 'seen it all before' vibe to it.
Rabid Geeks by WoodyStiffer	Aug 1st, 2003 12:44:09 AM
Rabid Geek fans always assume that someone is a rabid geek fan of The Rings, or Star Wars, or Star Trek, or The Matrix, or some other storyline that attracts geeks like moths to a flame. So when you attack them, they immediately tell you to go back to your Star Wars, Matrix, etc. talkbacks like you too own 100 figurines and masturbate to them like they do.
Morgoth by WoodyStiffer	Aug 1st, 2003 12:47:09 AM
Holy Christ, just went back and read Morgoth's post - that's some SCARY SHIT! Don't they ever let you out into the daylight?
Sorry Barstardo, it was an by Conan_the_Humble	Aug 1st, 2003 12:49:15 AM
assumption on my behalf, those who usually bash, 'Lotr' 'geeks' are rabid SW fans, who feel threatened by the lack of quality of the current SW movies, those of us who like discussing these movies usually get our 'backs' up, in order to ward off trolls. There is much that is new in this trailer, well, all of it really. Yes the characters are the same but everything else is new. In the movies we've seen to date, Frodo and Sam have NOT entered Shelob's lair, the battle of the Pelennor Fields has not happened, Aragorn has not received Anduril, Gandalf has not faced off with a Nazgul whether it's the Witch King or no. We have not yet seen much of Gondor etc etc, I could go on but I think (or at least hope) you've got my point. The scarcity of 'official' news coming from New Line or the film makers in relation to photo's teasers, trailers etc is the reason this 'trailer' is such a big deal. Cheers.
Seems very True Woody... by El_Barstardo	Aug 1st, 2003 12:53:23 AM
And for the record, I hate Star Trek, think star wars is good but WAY over-rated (old series, new ones are crap), ditto with the Matrix, and am quite a fan of Lord of The Rings. But that being said, I do not need to read 500 fucking posts on why people were allowed on the boat in the end, as well as the complete bible on the afterlife in middle earth. And as far as my morGoth dig goes, the guy (as well as several others) stick there tounges so far up Alice's ass on EVERY LOTR talkback that something needed to be said. It's like being in a never ending american pie movie.
You sound as if you speak from experience, by Conan_the_Humble	Aug 1st, 2003 12:57:10 AM
Woody-stiffer. A rabid geek fan. I understand these terms, but wonder if you do. Hurling abuse for the sake of it at people who enjoy discussing movies truly demonstrates your childishness. I didn't resort to insults or abuse against El-Bastardo. Why should the opposite occur? Is it because of the lack of an ability to think of something clever to say? If you must troll, at least put a bit of thought into it. Try and troll like Mercier used to. Whip-tash!!! You have just been schooled by TKOTB. Cheers.
You do not need to read 500 posts, by Conan_the_Humble	Aug 1st, 2003 01:01:05 AM
Barstardo, you can simply hit the back button on your browser, or scroll down in your browser, simple really. If you don't want to read different person's takes on the things we're seeing, don't. It's not rocket-science fer christsakes... And if Alice wants to hang around here and have our tongues up her backside, well the choice is entirely up to her... Cheers.
Fair enough conan... by El_Barstardo	Aug 1st, 2003 01:01:59 AM
but we already know those events are going to happen in this film. I'm talking look and feel - whereas the first TTT trailer looked different to fellowship, this one looks the same as the last film. We have seen fell beasts, seen gandalf the white, seen gollum, seen large scale battles... I just don't see anything in particular which creates the 'wow' factor for this trailer. Looks too similar to the last film (which could be a good thing, but doesn't make for a jaw dropping trailer.)
This in't an official trailer you should recall, by Conan_the_Humble	Aug 1st, 2003 01:05:54 AM
if it was you might have some weight in your argument. This is more like a fan made trailer based on actual footage. I'm certain that if and when New Line releases an official trailer it will be much more polished and certainly different to TTT. Cheers.
Yes, I realise than conan... by El_Barstardo	Aug 1st, 2003 01:11:25 AM
but I am talking about the reaction people are having to the "trailer", or preview, or whatever you want to call it. People are falling all over themselves over it, when really the visuals are nothing new. I see nothing here that says "this movie is going to kick even more ass now that I have seen this!" It just looks like a logical extention to TTT. Nothing to get worked up about.
FIRST Motherfuckers!!!!!!! by Bunger	Aug 1st, 2003 01:14:58 AM

Sorry about that, I don't mean to get all preachy, by Conan_the_Humble	Aug 1st, 2003 01:21:59 AM
for one who expouses the qualities of tolerance, I sure do harp on... However, I digress. I'm sorry but I can't agree that there's nothing to get excited about. The list of scene's I outlined above are all shown in this 'trailer' albeit briefly and none too clearly. To those of us who know what's coming (and you obviously fit in here) this trailer at least provides some confirmation that these scenes are to be in the movie, or at least the inevitable Extended Edition DVD. For an LOTR fan this is fantastic news. The biggest criticism I've heard (and expoused) with regards to the previous LOTR movies have been in relation to the changes made to the story lines by PJ et al. To see that the above mentioned scenes have been filmed is very heartening and makes me look forward to this film, more than I already do. Is this the purpose of trailers? Cheers.
Ride! Ride to ruin and the world's ending! by Stile	Aug 1st, 2003 01:41:08 AM
Every time I read that book, that line gives me shivers. I was so worried it wouldn't be included because if it were delivered wrong, it would sound terrible. But damn if I didn't get chills hearing that. Hooray for friends who bring their laptops to work to take advantage of the corporate T1 line.
does that mean they have "hobbit" sized members? by Johnson	Aug 1st, 2003 04:27:46 AM
I saw the new trailer. It was cool but I would not make a big fuss about it. Seriously, it didn't really show that much anyway.
test by Methestel	Aug 1st, 2003 05:08:36 AM
...really? trailer?
seriously... trailer? by Methestel	Aug 1st, 2003 05:12:14 AM
what trailer? what happens? seriously, am out of the loop...
Things that make you go "Hmm"... by AliceInWonderlnd	Aug 1st, 2003 06:08:18 AM
My favourite is people who come on to Aint It Cool News, the Geek Central of pretty much the entire universe, and bother to get themselves a user handle, who then complain about the levels of geekiness. It's kind of like complaining that the surface of the Sun is hot, or that your glass of water is unpleasantly wet. "This LOTR talkback is too geeky." Gee, d'you think so? I'm horrified! Where you guys have far more cause for complaint is in this "ass-kissing", which in the non-Geek world is also known as "politeness", "charm", whatever. Some people are just polite, charming, even mildly flirtatious for absolutely no reason at all other than that they like to be, and it's quite disgusting. It's perfectly true that so far in this TB no-one has called me a moron, a whore, or a child-molester, or implied that any of the above is true of my family members. But since (considering the way this TB is going) this is bound to be rectified very soon, I really wouldn't worry about it too much.
"Ride to ruin" by Miami Mofo	Aug 1st, 2003 06:59:49 AM
I beleive, just like in the book, that Theoden says that line in this trailer thingee.
100% wrong alice by El_Barstardo	Aug 1st, 2003 07:47:49 AM
The fact you fail to realise is that, much like in professional sport there are different levels of skill, so too are there different levels of geekdom. I do not expect to come to aint-it-cool news and not hear the comments of fellow geeks. Lets face it, thats why we come here, for the talkbacks. Harry himself has nothing interesting to say, the 'scoops' are few and far between. No, the lifeblood of this site is the talkback. But while I can enjoy and feel comfortable in talkbacks such as the transformer, spider-man and harry potter ones, this particular talkback cracks the geekiness up to 11. The geekiness in here goes past the "I collect evil dead action figures" level to the extreme "I refuse to bathe or shave or converse with people without the use of a keyboard so I can become a nutjob like Philip K dick" stage. Even Steve Erkil would be ashamed. But hey, if you consider morGoth sitting there masturbating while imagining what you look like as he types a message to you 'charming', more power to you girl.
Nodding head.. Hear, hear, Alice.. Now Let's have no more of thi by JasonDkEldar	Aug 1st, 2003 08:22:46 AM
It really shocks that in one breath, or rather "spasm of their fingers on their keyboards," these fellows will come in saying that everyone here is a geek, and how geeky they are for being geeks, and then slam the geeks for "kissing Aaa" to a girl who comes in. A) most real geeks would kill for the chance to do that very thing IRL, so it is no insult to say that they are doing so. B) Most real geeks are like these trolls, actually, in that they have no real grasp on how to go about being nice to females, much less tonguing their pert little bums. Some of the folks hereabouts are masquerading as Tolkienphiles. Others are ignoring the fact that if you read the books 6 or 7 times and "didn't read the appendices because they are not Tolkien canon," they give away they are not reading the appendices ever, merely relying on the 'Cliff notes' to tell them cool passages to remember. I did not get to see this trailer, as my server and AICN's were not on speaking terms when this posted, nor even earlier Thursday, but I can extrapolate the images, and am pretty happy with the visuals PJ chose to illuminate for the Tolkien fans, as well as the story-telling he did for the non-fans and fans alike. When the movie was in production I screamed bloody murder that Arwen's character would be at Helm's Deep in the films, an assertion made by several "insiders. While the changes to her role in the films from the books is drastic, I think they served a purpose that people could live with. Giving meat to more than little fellows trekking thru the forest. I remember how dissatisfied I was with the pacing and choices made in the Bakshi and Rankin-Bass animations, bu I am glad people think Tolkien's description of Strider leads to PJ miminking Bakshi in the tavern intro of Aragorn's character. It just shows ho vivd Tolkien was as a writer with his descriptions. What other fantasy work has produced such wonderful art far before there was a movie to design for? This world and story inspired Dungeons and Dragons, moreso than any other work of fiction outside "Le Morte d'Artur", and while people dismiss D&D now, it did capture the imagination and free the mind from drudgery. Admittedly it spawned countless permutations that we are paying for to this very day, (cough, cough..Venger.. COugh cough..Marlon Wayans??) but it gave a lot of people an outlet that led to more in their lives than darts, pool, bowling, and TV hour. If I had spent my teen years in a rec hall or exclusively at the arcade, like so many people I knew who thought "rolling Dice" was silly, then who is to say if I would have read and examined things that seem to escape people who didn;t spend hours dissecting the rules and working out the possibilities for adventures. Anything creative was superior to the hours I wasted earlier on playing Space Invaders, Pac-Man, Defnder, and countless other CRT brain-freezers. D&D brought me to LOTR, after a long span between devouring "The Hobbit" and daring to pick up the trilogy. I was the wonderful recipient of a library who found Chess clubs disruptive, segregated LOTR from The Hobbit as adult and juvenile fiction respectively, and subsequently banned D&D from its conference rooms simply because it was "Satanic" and "immoral." Why were all these labels heaped on this innocent lil' game? Just like with Harry Potter, anything that mundane hausfraus don't savvy gets labeled by the largest broadest most wicked label they can draw from their memories. D&D was wicked and immoral and Satanic in their minds because people played it without a board, often with little more than 10 total sheets of paper and some reference books with bare breasts on some of the "demons" in the "pitchers." Harry Potter is getting tarred this way due to the girls being honest developing females with thoughts of their own, the dismissal of "Christian" values in their opinion by the wizards in that they have no resident clerics telling them how to live their lives and practice magic(Least not til Dolores Umbridge in OOTP). Back to the point though, LOTR gets flack from people who brand its fans eeks for much the same reason. They view history or even prehistory as something they saw on AMC or worse the Discovery Channel. Walking with Dinosaurs is viewed as sacred writ, evne though the people working on it cannot even agree with each other, much less with the majority of the scientists in their field. LOTR was never meant as more than mythology written for the modern era to abosrb, and like its fellow genre members in that respect, it succeeds smashingly. Although Tolkien VEHEMENTLY denied the WWII allegory, (which I tried a research paper out on in Highs School), the point is that people (including me) allegorized it in the sense that we did not realize the archetypes he rpesented are more closely based on reallife personalities than any WWII "Yay!Yay!We WOn!!" film. PS a quick question for the Tolkienphiles regarding Silmarillion?? Did anyone else notice the big bad motorscooter Valar ignored their boss, the one true Creator?? When he told them to leave the Elves to their fates, and that they were beyond the Valar's demesne?? Seemes to me scooping them up and taking them off to Nirvana(Undying Lands) warranted them far more punishment than their own "Johnny-Come-Lately" retribution on a renegae member of their kind, or the uppity Numenor. The hubris of their doom on the Elves left me wondering if Tolkien intentionally meant them to appear as foolish as the Greek "olympian" deities? Just a thought.. Forgive my ramblings..
Don't know about that Pallando... by Skyway Moaters	Aug 1st, 2003 08:30:13 AM
... I think I discern a Wolf's head on that thing. Watch it again; see the "ears"?
some thoughts regarding rampant geekiness and who says that ''ri by djinnj	Aug 1st, 2003 09:19:28 AM
Rampant geek (actually, I prefer renaissance nerd, since I don't believe I have the technical acumen to be a geek) that I am, let me say this; foistly, all the deep discussion about Elvish death and afterlife were in response to a direct question. As were those of us who responded that we have read the Silmarillion. Secondly, (as if there need be proof of my obsessive fandom) regarding who said the line in question. If you look at the trailer, it is indeed Theoden in the first shot, but his mouth isn't moving. It also doesn't sound quite like him (remember his 'victory, victory' from TTT?), but that could be distortion. I believe that they took Eomer's line (and it is his, in the book), gave it to Eomer (since it is such a fabulous, emotional bit) and then simply laid it over scenes cut from elsewhere since the quotation itself is relatively long. Indeed, if you look at the trailer, bits are cut together that really aren't that close in occurrence (even if PJ compressed the sap out of this film), even though they appear related (building a narrative thread w/bits of unrelated footage is typical in trailers). Thirdly, there is a very good reason why Theoden cannot be saying this line, and those of us who know the book know why. Remember, it's Eomer's raging response to an extremely disturbing discovery on the battle field after a certain pivotal event. (and here I was thinking I wouldn't post to this tb again, I am such a nerd.)
Well, we'll never agree... by AliceInWonderlnd	Aug 1st, 2003 09:47:38 AM
Because I like my geekdom turned up to 11, and the fact that you like it quieter is neither here nor there. The resolution to your problem is dead easy, though. Just don't read overtly geeky posts. I skim posts all the time on AICN - sometimes it's the only way to avoid cranial haemmorhaging. And I still don't see how somebody who's known me online for years now, referring to my by an endearment he's used for a good while, qualifies as on-messageboard masturbation. I just don't know what your problem is with this, and frankly, I'm a little too scared to ask. Besides you want to talk about the talkbackers and their geek standard, not the movies, so this conversation must therefore be off topic and boring to a lot of the people reading this. I'm happy you like Harry Potter and Spider-Man, and I wouldn't whale on you for geeking out over them. Why should I? It's not hurting me any. Besides, without enthusiasms we are doomed to mediocrity.
Oscar race: Seabiscuit will beat RoTK by a nose by GypsyTRobot	Aug 1st, 2003 10:05:27 AM
ha ha ha. ha ha. Hey, how come Alice gets all the attention? Oh yeah, I'm a big retarded purple one-eyed robot, and I'm not really all that nice or coherent. Still, I've been known to patiently listen to geeks drone on about that one time they were playing D&D and the DM blasted "Owner of a Lonely Heart" on his boombox for no apparent reason. Doesn't that make your hearts go all a-twitter? And does Alice tell you that Paul "Avon" Darrow bought the rights to Blake's 7 from Terry Nation's widow, and wants to make a new Blake's 7 mini-series? I don't think so.
Ok, after careful study of the trailer SPOILERS.... by Skyway Moaters	Aug 1st, 2003 10:24:22 AM
NOT Grond, but the end is carved in the likeness of SOME kind of animule... The gates of Minas Tirith were Mithril and steel yes? This gate looks like bronze -Mithril doesn't tarnish right? So; could be Osgiliath? * "Ride Now! Ride to ruin and the world's ending!!" Still sounds like Bernard Hill's voice to me even though in the book (singular(heh!)) this is Eomer's line after seeing Eowyn on the Pelennor: 'He stood for a moment as a man who is pierced in the midst of a cry by an arrow through the heart; and then his face went deathly white, and a cold fury rose in him, so that all speech failed him for a while. A fey mood took him. "Eowyn, Eowyn!" he cried at last. "Eowyn how come you here? What madness or devilry is this? Death, death, death! Death take us all!" Then without taking counsel or waiting for the approach of the men of the City, he spurred headlong back to the front of the great host, and blew a horn, and cried aloud for the onset. Over the field rang his clear voice calling: "Death! Ride, ride to ruin and the world's ending!" And with that the host began to move. But the Rohirrim sang no more. DEATH they cried with one voice loud and terrible, and gathering speed like a great tide their battle swept about their fallen king and passed, roaring away southwards.' * MAN! Talk about your goosebumps! Gets the malenky little lizards crawling up and down me plott every single time! * Can't tell if that's Faramir leading the cavalry charge or not. * Gollum's line, (I found a 10Mb version of the trailer where the sound is synched) is "When the Hobbitses are DEAD." * The Nazgul that swoops on the Gondoran soldier on the wall is taking out a catapult. * There isn't a crown in sight in either of the Nazgul episodes we see here. * Anyone else notice that Shadowfax backs up of his own volition and then rears in defiance when he's confronted with Nazgul astride a fell beast? Definitely a Hobbit "dangling" behind Mithrandir in this scene. * Could the scene of Pippin and Merry be before the Black Gate on the Morannon? We've heard rumors that he appears there. Perhaps in PJ
I like you Gypsy... by AliceInWonderlnd	Aug 1st, 2003 10:33:17 AM
...And I'd say so but I don't want to seem like I'm masturbating over you. As for ROTK at the Oscars, I can't get too worked up about it, since I'm still smarting over "A Beautiful Mind" winning first time out of the gate. In other news, any incarnation of Blake's Seven terrifies me profoundly. Actually, I made the mistake of saying I didn't like it once in a crowded place and I got a good shouting at from this guy who declared that watching Servalan act badly once a week awoke his virgin body to the pleasures of the flesh. The fact that he ended up gay was neither here nor there. Allegedly.
Go fuck yourself El Barstardo by Pontsing Barset	Aug 1st, 2003 10:34:08 AM
...you're crashing a party, pissing on the carpet and taking a dump in the punch bowl. * Tail Enders UNITE! TATOW's a-comin' FAST, and it ain't gonna be too damn picky about who it burns... * Iwl parbly get bannit...
damn, here I am commenting again.... by djinnj	Aug 1st, 2003 10:41:19 AM
I agree w/you Alice. Most emphatically, and especially the last bit about enthusiasm. And Skyway, regarding Gandalf and a hobbit on Shadowfax being confronted by a fell beast. Did you notice the domed building behind it and the flames? I think this is one of those important rescues, and Shadowfax was added to account for how Pippin found Gandalf at a lower gate and managed to get him to the Houses of the Dead in time. I think what we see is part of the Silent Street. Of course, I could be wrong....
All right! The morGoth has a new fan! by morGoth	Aug 1st, 2003 10:58:25 AM
Well El_Barstado, you certainly are a bastard and live up to your self-loathing posting handle. Um,. Perhaps you should check out the new poster category Harry is fixin
Merry + Pippin by raw_bean	Aug 1st, 2003 11:08:25 AM
The scene in the trailer with Pippin holding Merry (I'm sure it is them, they both have fellowship cloaks/broaches and one's in Gondorian armour, one's in Rohirric armour) seems to me to mirror the scene in FOTR, after Gandalfs 'death', where Merry I think holds Pippin as he cries? Anyone else notice this? Is it deliberate I wonder? --- By the way, I happen to find AliceInWonderland's posts interesting and charming. I guess that means I'm a hormonal teenager with an overactive imagination and an abiding love of my hand. Oh well, at least that's better than a vitriolic troll of a TBer.
The Oscar Race by WoodyStiffer	Aug 1st, 2003 11:23:33 AM
I don't see Seabiscuit or Return of the King doing a whole lot at the Oscars. It the second Rings failed to make a hit at the Oscars and lost out to Chicago - which was campy and whose storyline is light (that's being nice) - then I don't see the third installment doing much either. Seabiscuit was well crafted, you get that in every frame - but I don't think they really nailed the emotional highs and lows well enough to take home alot of hardware come Oscar time - but then maybe I'm wrong.
yep raw_bean, noticed it. by djinnj	Aug 1st, 2003 11:52:31 AM
Repetition for effect, perhaps. Resonance and all that. Just as the music uses leitmotifs.... Or perhaps it just happens to be where they cut that particular scene for the trailer, and it won't have the same sort of visual impact as the other. Won't know until we see it (in 4.5 months damnit!). - I really must do some work!
When nerds attack... by Death Machine	Aug 1st, 2003 12:09:05 PM
...next on Fox. Seriously, folks. This has been one of the more entertaining talkbacks I've ever read here. Reminds me of when I saw Fellowship on opening night and sat behind a group of five fellows who could each make a convincing play for the role of Comic Book Guy in a live-action Simpsons movie. They were all talking about how many times they'd read the trilogy and one of them admitted he'd only read the books twice. The outrage was palpable and not at all good natured. His friends made him move to the end of their row and didn't speak to him for the rest of the film (although they sure talked a lot to each other throughout, annoying the piss out of me as they pointed out what was missing and what had been changed for each other... as if they didn't all know after reading the books a thousand times). Just to see what their reaction would be, I waited until the quietest moment of the touching scene between Sam and Frodo on the boat at the end and then whispered to my friend: "You know, I never realized this before but Sam and Frodo are gay as Maypoles." From the angry buzz and intent glares I received, I was sure the herd in front of me was going to try and eat me (literally, not in any sort of homo-erotic way). Don't get me wrong. I love Tolkein. Read the trilogy every summer as a kid from ages eight to 21 and still revisit it every so often. Read the Silmarillion, too, because I dug Tolkein's world and wanted to know more about it. Read Smith of Wooton Major and Farmer Giles of Ham... even the Father Christmas Letters. Waited for years for a good Lord of the Rings Movie (and suffered the tease of Bashki's never-finished cartoon). Wasn't disappointed by Jackson's pictures. They're a wonderful re-imagining of some of the most influential fiction ever written and, potentially, could make Tolkein accessible to an entirely new generation that might otherwise have ignored it in favor of Beyblade and Dragon Ball and whatever else the Japanese are importing this week to capture young folks' attentions. But it's folks like some of the whackos in this talkback who will scare these kids away from reading the books after they see what its done to you. By rabidly defending your fantasy as the only true fantasy against all who might dare to compare it to others or, worse yet, criticize it in any way shape or form, you paint yourselves as, at best, religious zealots and, at worst, scary basement-dwelling freaks in desperate need of a real life and/or a good lay. Relax. Learn to laugh at each other and, more importantly, yourselves. They're just stories... wonderful, engaging and timeless stories, but not sacred scrolls containing the keys to some special understanding of the universe that increases the more times you read them. If you really loved these works the way art and literature should be loved, you'd make every effort to share them with the rest of the world instead of locking yourselves up in some tower of elite and true fandom with them and granting admittance only to those you deem worthy. Christ, but your self-importance galls me. Tolkein himself would probably smack you all silly if he bumped into you. But he wouldn't bump into you. Because he actually went out to pubs and interacted with people - some of whom never even read his work - in the real world to find inspiration for his fantasy instead of hiding away in a dark hole and emerging only in costume for movie premieres and fan conventions.
I'm holding with Eomer yelling his own lines by Pallando Blue	Aug 1st, 2003 12:14:06 PM
Just sounds like a younger man to me, voice cracking slightly in despair. Bernard Hill has more of a hearty bellow. * Good catch on the fire in that last shot, djinnj! While it could be regular catapult damage, I think what you said makes sense. Pippin gets Gandalf at the gate, he's atop Shadowfax, sweeps up the hobbit and hightails it to the OTHER damn crisis (and can ya believe the timing. "I swear," Gandalf chuckles, "there are days, and there are days.") * Skyway, daggitall, that's no more a head carved into the ram in that teaser then there's one carved into the ram used at Helm's Deep. It's just been chopped into points, and it has a couple knots near the end. Not a mouth and eyes. SHPOILERS I'm 30% thinking it's part of Osgiliath's final fall, 70% thinking it's to breach the 2nd tier of Minas Tirith. We've heard that (uh-oh! deviation form the text!) there is fighting in the streets. My thinking is, that after Grond does its business, and Gandalf has his showdown with the Witch-king, and Rohan shows up, and the W-k withdraws, and Pippin yanks Gandalf away from the battle... there's still a great big open gate there, and despite Rohan coming in at one flank the original front ranks of baddies are still going to exploit the new access. Defended heavily by the reinvigorated Gondorians, but hell, hordes are hordes. Things are going to look the absolute bleakest before _____ sails up the river... But that's just all my speculation. Ahhhh! Delicious speculation! Almost forgot what this was like! * Conan, just to be clear, it's not a fan-made trailer, it's (well, this is the near-unanimous assumption) the last minute and a half of the Disc 2 12-minute behind-the-scenes ROTK preview coming with the T2T DVD at the end of this month. Unless, of course, you consider PJ a fan, which I suspect he is. * The 4 noms for T2T last year (Best Pic for an unfinished sequel? Says a LOT toward H-wood's ongoing opinion of this epic) and 2 tech wins were merely the water's roll-back before the oncoming tsunami. May not get the number of noms as FOTR (think of FOTR as the deep-sea earthquake that triggered the tsunami--mmmmmm, extended metaphors...), but ROTK'll be reaping wins in the biggies. According to the pros at Oscar handicapping (and what a gig THAT is) the only other flick with a chance may be Cold Mountain (star-filled, literary origins, big scope and Miramax-plugged). But Cold Mountain has yet to prove itself critically or popularly (and is released same day as "The Alamo" which could dilute it's non-ROTK-going audience), while LOTR's 3-years-in-the-rolling tidal wave is already cresting. And we're all just thousands of helpless Phillipinos. Only my speculation, of course. * Swooning over Alice? Oh, please. [ducks] She's got a funny accent and is covered in droll, from everyone's drolling over her. (Oh, how droll of me!) [ducks again] I don't swoon, I set em to swooning, and Alice's just another mare in my stable, m'man. [too slow, takes a vase in the ear] ;) Oops! There goes the top four buttons of my white silk shirt again. Guess I'll go darkly brood by the firelight... * I'd throw you some love, Gypsy, if I knew what the hell Blake's 7 was. A TV show? Bad movie? Did it ever cross the pond? Dare I google?
Pallando Blue, I like your style by djinnj	Aug 1st, 2003 12:27:48 PM
Gales of laughter. Absolute gales (to go w/the tsunami).
Death Machine, what TB did you read? by Pallando Blue	Aug 1st, 2003 12:28:15 PM
That sounds like a shitty time at the movies, and no mistake. I would have smacked those jackasses in their heads soon and often in the same situation, and so would most here. But where in this TB did you read people being exclusionary? Elitist? Or claiming LOTR's superiority to all forms of literature and entertainment? You're looking at the wrong TB, m'friend, cause this has been 90% conversation regarding the topic at hand, with all comers welcome. The Bastard went for personal attacks, and Pud! and elf_hummer are old jokes. Other than those diversions all we've been talking is Tolkien and the movies. And, yeah, diving into the arcane minutiae of each, but what of that. You're painting the wrong fans with the same brush as those theater yabboes. Everyone here has been pretty cool. Jump in the conversation at hand if you like, but this meta-talkbacking is inherently boring.
all the girls love Alice by Cherub Rock	Aug 1st, 2003 12:33:42 PM
people, people, people. Alice may be a charming individual with a wit for words, but save your hand for physical manifestations please! How do you even know (s)he's a chick??! coz their name's aliceinwonderland? have you met her/him? my s.name certainly don't make me no angel. hrmf. btw that trailer rocks. trailer naysayers can carp all they want, i'm sure i'd be extremely bored by rough cuts of leaked footage of films they're looking forward to too. btw only LOTR has the power to turn me into a fanboy
AWP! The morGoth done stolit TATOW and... by Pontsing Barset	Aug 1st, 2003 12:56:46 PM
commenced to rumpa befor I cud even get startit! That were a clevver bit-O-work ther Mr chard coal bum. Now I dont hafto grabbit the filfy old thing rite away...
I'd have to side with the Tokienites on this one by Ribbons	Aug 1st, 2003 01:04:06 PM
Putting a damper on people's anticipations wasn't very "cool" of El Bastardo. Now, if the geekiness attached to those enthused with the books was responsible for unanimously effusive praise or vitriol towards other movies, I can see where the loss of TB "etiquette" would disturb you. As it is, why drop a big, steaming coiler on their discussion? If you wanna blame someone for the madness, blame me, since their digressions into 'The Silmarillion' came from a question I asked about (the movie's incarnation of) Arwen. Does that kind of attachment to the property the films were spawned from imply a deeply-rooted bias? Perhaps, but you and I both know that we talkbackers will cross that bridge when we come to it. For now, let them have their fun. Anticipation is greater than the realization, and that holds true for everyone. You'd have to be a pretty big bastard to take that away from them.
Oh you done it now Death Machine... by Pontsing Barset	Aug 1st, 2003 01:14:50 PM
... who dya think yare using the stinking danged ol "T" Word?! IT AINT NO T&^%Y!!! Gimme that TATOW back morG Im gettin warmit up now! (Don't get upset DM (Notice you got the same initials as "Dungeon Master"? Haw!) The shudder* trilogy thing is a running joke on these boards...))
RE:Death Machine... by morGoth	Aug 1st, 2003 01:14:58 PM
...please cite at least one specific poster on this TB who fits your description. I'm just curious, then I'll give you a civil response.
Re: The Oscars by Miami Mofo	Aug 1st, 2003 01:15:32 PM
You can take this to the bank: LotR:RotK WILL win best Picture and Peter Jackson WILL win Best Director. Period. END OF DISCUSSION!!!!!!!!!
Cherub, Alice is indeed a chick by daughter of time	Aug 1st, 2003 01:21:33 PM
One might even say, a woman. As am I. ***And regarding the "geek" discussion, I hope I don't have to once again explain the collective life's experiences of the people on this board - the education we've had, the responsible jobs we've held, the friends, lovers, spouses or children with whom we maintain relationships, which still allow us to love Tolkien and take a more than usually close interest in these films. My own shelves are filled with non-fantasy reading material, even if half a shelf is devoted to LOTR, The Silmarillion and Tolkien bios. And I'm in a relationship with a gorgeous and studly former rugby player, who cheers for New Zealand, loves Tolkien and puts the lie to the stereotype like nothing you could imagine. And now, can we get back to discussing the movies and/or preview footage without maligning each other? And especially, to those who come here merely to put down the others who come here, I quote Gollum, "Go away and never come back!"
ROTK strikes again by The Red One	Aug 1st, 2003 01:28:02 PM
Dear fellow geeks (and I use that term in the fondest way possible being one myself) it is a lovely lovely day when we spend so much time and effort analyzing, dissecting and hypothesizing on a 91 second bit of film. I've been a Tolkein fan since I was 8 and amazingly enough I have social skills, wit and charm. And I'm drop dead gorgeous - there goes your beliefs about geeks. It's been many months since we've had anything to debate regarding PJ and ROTK - it's good to see it starting again - can't wait till December.
daughter of time, that does it, I cast you out! by Pallando Blue	Aug 1st, 2003 01:38:08 PM
You have the GALL to come here and quote the MOVIE "Gollum"! Hacky dialogue invented by bloody filmmakers! And you claim to love Tolkien! You are NOT ONE OF US! Begone! I name you Pariah! *** Aside to Death Machine: something like that? Worse or better? ;)
Thanks Death Machine... by Pontsing Barset	Aug 1st, 2003 01:39:13 PM
... what would all us poor unwashed basement dwellers do with out you around to tell us: "Learn to laugh at each other and, more importantly, yourselves." You're just be one wise sage ol' motherfucker huh? Stop by anytime you feel the need to make judgements about utter strangers. Two questions: What's it feel like to have a head that big? and Where in the WORLD do buy your hats? *** You claim to be a Tolkienite of sorts, yet you can't even spell the man's name correctly. Fucking Blowhard.
Erm... by morGoth	Aug 1st, 2003 01:43:24 PM
...I was gunna say something in the D&D vein like "Verily, I yield TATOW to you Sir Pontsing Barset!" but I see you have already claimed it. Nice touch... Look'ee here Pallando, that battering ram has a head carved onnit or I'm a twelve sided dice roller (which you know I ain't!). Just for the record, since I have two adult children, I think (that I recall, anyhoo) that means I've had sex at least TWICE!
D'oop, meant to add by Pallando Blue	Aug 1st, 2003 01:45:23 PM
Yeah, I'm thining that's Deagol holding the Ring, not Sam. Cause where's the chain, eh? Or did someone already point that out. ** The close up of a well-soiled Frodo, right after "...only a fool's hope." Who doesn't think that there's a bit of the last-ditch struggle up the side of _____ ____. "I can crawl, Sam, I can crawl..." This probably sounds kinda sick, but I'm really looking forward to seeing the chain literally digging into Frodo's neck from the Ring's weight...
Yes, but.... (sniff) by daughter of time	Aug 1st, 2003 01:48:29 PM
Don't people who make hackneyed remarks deserve hackneyed movie dialogue back at them?
Don't worry daughter of time by The Red One	Aug 1st, 2003 01:50:33 PM
I thought what you said was funny. Others are just bitter. I think it's Smeagols hand holding the ring.
Oh, okay by Pallando Blue	Aug 1st, 2003 02:09:32 PM
Aw, d.o.t., dry yer cheeks and give us a hug, there there. ;) How do, The Red One! In the spirit of not liking to think that good folx think I'm an ass (just a smartass, thank you), heh, I'm not really a bitter crank, I just play one on TB. Stick around, it's good company here after the tide goes out. Poring over 91 seconds of LOTR film is pure oxygen to us. Goes for you too, djinnj (and thanks and backatcha ;), and Juno Jones--hell, you even know the word "tailender," which is daunting. (Who else does? I mean, really?) No need to lurk! Always looking for more folx to jaw at around here. Oh, and The Red One? I bet I'm better looking than you are. ;)
Re: Oscars by daughter of time	Aug 1st, 2003 02:11:48 PM
Speculating before the fall and winter crop of films is in may be pointless, but I'm sure it won't come down to ROTK and "Seabiscuit." The latter has received surprisingly lukewarm reviews, and though an excellent film, did not quite live up to expectations. To my mind, it was horribly undercut by that inane decision to insert PBS-type footage "educating" us along the way, though I wouldn't be surprised many of the young 'uns in the audience are indeed clueless about the Great Depression. However, it's a weak narrative device, and I thought Red's history made it clear enough how low many had fallen. To cut to the stills at the very start of the match race was really unforgiveable. As for ROTK, the buzz for the past three years is that the Academy is just waiting for all segments to be in to award it, and it is almost unthinkable that this won't happen. The only suspense in my mind is whether Elijah Wood will finally be given the recognition he deserves for holding a 12-hour film together and giving it its heart and soul. From what we have heard of his performance in ROTK, this seems at least a possibility.
You SO are NOT better looking than me! by The Red One	Aug 1st, 2003 02:14:15 PM
I'm still the prettiest!! Go me! I come from a family that downloaded and saved the trailer bit and then went through it frame by frame to analyze it. That was my mum and dad - no wonder I'm a geek.
I don't know about better looking, but I bet you're taller! by Miami Mofo	Aug 1st, 2003 02:32:06 PM
In fact Senor Blue, I should probably place part of the blame for my neck problem on the fact that I had to continually look up at you when we met last August (note to others: I'm 6' 1"). But even if you're not taller, I bet that you're the fastest typist in this here hood. [P.S. I see that Pitt is #11 -- that's three B.E. teams ahead of any ACC's. More importantly, Kirk Herbstreit of ESPN predictes that it'll be you guys and K-State in the Champ game. Velly intelestink.] ***I don't know how many of you were able to see the Video game preview before it was taken down in May. Much of what I remember seeing there, I saw in this one, including "Ride to Ruin." I believed then, as I still do, that I was hearing Bernard Hill's (Theoden) voice.
anduril, to go back to a comment much, much earlier in this tb. by djinnj	Aug 1st, 2003 02:37:38 PM
Now that that's done and we can talk about the clip again; it occured to me that Anduril is wet in that scene. If you haven't already paused it to take a closer look, do so. You can see an anvil w/a hammer, and a small pedestal or some such with scrollwork on it, not unlike the decorative accents to the architecture in Rivendell, and a candelabrum. Thus, what we see is the reforging of the blade. The following bit w/Aragorn and Legolas probably has nothing to do with the preceding sword bit. But it looks good together because it suggests a progression and the backgrounds echo one another in the fraction of a second we see them. And, just keep in mind that all the pieces we've seen have been jumbled to make the trailer progress with an apparent narrative and also show us all the important characters. Much of it is therefore out of order to the film.
Anduril by The Red One	Aug 1st, 2003 02:53:21 PM
Interesting hypothesis.
I take it back by Pallando Blue	Aug 1st, 2003 02:54:14 PM
I am an ass. And Judo John's gonna go judo all over it for callin him Juno Jones. Ha! *** Haven't gotten around to Seabiscuit yet, wondering if I'm gonna. Maybe I'll wait til a night someone else picks it as the movie, and shuffle along. Finally saw "The Legend of Suriyothai" Wednesday night, and I wish I could recommend it as highly as "Whale Rider" (which I'll happily bring up every other TB til it gets at least a Best FF nom). But Suriyothai... I just can't recommend at all, sadly. At least not this 2-1/2 hour edit by Coppola. Apparently, after an AICN search, there's a 3-1/2 and even a 4-6 hour cut? Anyway, I don't see how in this case more could be better. It somehow felt both too short AND too long. The storylines from the first third felt very trite, and the palace intrigue and political machinations of the central bulk of the film, while interesting, felt too compacted, as years would rush by and gaps filled in by the narrator/color commentator. Then, after all of that is resolved, the final Big Battle felt disconnected with the rest of the movie, when Burma moves out of the role of Looming Menace to Invading Enemy. But everything we've been investing in for two hours IS resolved already. It seems to be there purely to (1) rile up a patriotic/anti-Burma sentiment (lost on me) and (2) justify the title of the film. Probably the movie's worst fault is that after the first twenty minutes Suriyothai herself feels like a secondary character throughout, in a film loaded with characters and relationships to keep track of. Her big finale on the battlefield just isn't earned, period. Not to mention it's some of the most terrible, terrible "movie combat" I've ever seen, and I've seen "Flesh Gordon." Literally comes across as two people smacking broomsticks together, trying to hit each other's broomstick, not the other person. And all in choppy slow motion. ...The good points--every frame is shot beautifully. The photography and design is, to coin a phrase, breathtaking. The recreation of ancient warfare and architecture from this part of the world is amazing, and some of the skirmishes before the big-un (I'm thinking the assassination attempt at night, on a river) are mesmerizing. Also, surprisingly, the gore factor's dialed up to ten. Maybe not a good point for some, but it was never played up for kicks, it was always surprising and horrific. Also, Suriyothai wasn't an Eowyn/Mulan character--the women in this movie are as much the bloodthirsty warriors as the men. She was a noble figure, o'course, but some of the women on the field, and personal servants who don't blink at murder for their Queen... No shrinking violets in medieval Siam I take it. ...But in the end, it just doesn't add up to a good movie. Most of the performances I felt were flat, almost as flat as the dialogue. There were some world-class visual moments scattered throughout, and 2 or 3 excellent performances, and some interesting palace intrigue plotting (although laid out in a numbingly episodic, expository manner), but all of that's not nearly enough to warrant sitting through the entire feature, with the effort it takes to keep track of all its plotlines. Most of which are resolved fairly unsatisfactorily. Sorry, all told I was greatly disappointed. Give "The Legend of Suriyothai" a rent someday, perhaps, if you have a sudden craving for an epic royal drama with war-elephants (not nearly enough of em!), but don't feel bad if you want to fast forward chunks at a time.
Whale Rider by daughter of time	Aug 1st, 2003 03:01:21 PM
Unfortunately, it can't be up for a best Foreign Film nomination, because the category is "Foreign Language Film" (if I'm remembering correctly), which is why New Zealand competes with the U.S. and U.K. for Best Picture. Excellent movie, though... I finally saw it a couple of days ago and wish it could get wider release.
Actually, Miami, the boss it out by Pallando Blue	Aug 1st, 2003 03:08:20 PM
..and I have NOTHING to do today. Nothing. So, you all have to suffer for it. * Geez, djinnj, helluva catch on Anduril! I dind't even realize that was an edit there, but certainly that's the reforging in Rivendell, cut to Aragorn and Legs in in the PotD... * Okay, here's a far more pointless observation. When the fell beast is taking out the catapult, notice the other fell beast's tail zipping off screen at the top? Wonder what he was up to? Them suckers are gonna be ACTIVE combatants. Oh ho ho ho yeah. *** Now, tho, thanks to the Mofo, I'm gonna be poring over the sports sites. (Is the ACC anywhere at ALL in the polls? F State in the teens maybe? That it?)
deagols hand by BigJiffieMan	Aug 1st, 2003 03:11:35 PM
Of course that was deagols or smeagols hand at the start of the trailer because both PJ and Andy Serkis have both stated that there will be a flashback scene about them.
Dangit, you're right by Pallando Blue	Aug 1st, 2003 03:12:33 PM
It is Foreign Language film, uh der. I knew that. Well, shoot. Hope no one forgets it. (And of course the boss IS out. She hasn't itted out in years, I bet.)
Of Seabiscuit by GypsyTRobot	Aug 1st, 2003 03:36:54 PM
I was being tongue in cheek about Seabiscuit winning Best Picture. Seeing as how this is an RotK TB, let me just say this. If you can catch the PBS American Experience, tune in towards the end to see the footage of Seabiscuit racing against War Admiral. The ugly little horse effortlessly flying like a runty Shadowfax while the aristocratic War Admiral strains to no avail - sheer magic.
Blake's 7 by GypsyTRobot	Aug 1st, 2003 04:03:47 PM
How can I explain this beloved diamond in the rough? Mercenaries in spaaaace! A cheaper, more adult Dr. Who. The official website sez: "An attempt to mount a serious space opera, Blake's 7 was British television SF at its best and was arguably every bit as great an influence on the genre as the original Star Trek series ... Premiered in the wake of Star Wars, elaborate SFX played second billing to imaginative stories and real characters, with some self-deprecating British humour thrown in for good measure. Blake's 7 greatest strength and enduring popularity owed much to the fact that its heroes were fallible, often morally ambiguous and could be killed." The protagonists are mercenaries and not very nice ones at that. If you liked Dr. Who but find it to be too childish now, or you enjoy complex characters and good writing you might find B7 enjoyable. On the other hand if you can't handle really cheap FX and subtlety, give it a pass. + Alice I'm not surprised the Servalan-fan turned out gay; Servalan has that whole glitzed out, Liza Minelli thing going on. She probably inspired many a drag-queen. http://members.aol.com/Manakka /federation.html/index-page13. html In fact the costumes were the only high-production value on that show, you had to wonder what underpaid, overinspired staff were responsible for Servalan's outfits, the Michelin man space suits, cockroach uniforms, etc.
Everyone knows by morGoth	Aug 1st, 2003 04:38:23 PM
That
BTW Miami... by morGoth	Aug 1st, 2003 04:41:53 PM
...glad to hear yer tackling Sil again. I'd like to think it's because you want to instead of just getting me offa your back. But hey, whatever works, yes? ** Note: Having read The Silmarillion more than once does not qualify me as "better" or anything else for that matter. I don't give a hang, really. And to those who wonder why someone would read a book more than once, well, do you only listen to a favorite piece of music one time? WOuld you only look at a beautiful and moving painting once and once only? To each his own, I sez, and the Gaffer agrees!
Barset by Death Machine	Aug 1st, 2003 04:44:30 PM
You are EXACTLY the sort of ass I was referring to in my earlier post. Those who weren't knew it. I never said all of the talkbackers here were like that, but I must've hit you pretty close to the mark to encite two posts in such rapid succession demonstrating such differing personality. Did reading it leave you conflicted in your feelings about yourself or did it just take you that long to decide you should be insulted after your first reaction? As for my speliing error, gosh-diddly-arn but I'm sorry to have defiled the name of your god with a simple mix-up of vowels. My only excuse is that I don't carve Tolkien's name into my own flesh repeatedly with a ceremonial dagger while masturbating in my own feces. I'm just a guy who enjoyed his books and the movies made from them, not a Tolkienite or whatever cultists like yourself prefer to be called. Never claimed to be. You take care now.
I watched it more carefully by The Red One	Aug 1st, 2003 04:53:13 PM
Excellent catch on the clip where Gandalf and Pippin are facing the Nazgul - the fire in the background....I'll bet that is them riding to save Faramir. Woohoo.
morGy, it's the former rather than the latter. by Miami Mofo	Aug 1st, 2003 04:55:17 PM
Yes, despite your constant urging, I am reading Sil because I WANT to. But here's a cool story: while reading it in the E.R., one of the staff saw me and stopped to ask what it was all about (he thought it was a continuation of LotR). During our discussion I learned that he is a Star Wars fan (original trilogy) who absolutely fell in love with FotR and T2T and can't wait for RotK. We have made plans to see it together at least once.
sigh what ever happened to civility.... by djinnj	Aug 1st, 2003 05:00:15 PM
Be polite, folks, even to those who are foolish or immature, or mind-numbingly closeminded. It doesn't help to start slinging insults, and it frankly bores at least me. // Now, back to the meat of this tb. When I tried loading the hi res version yesterday, I couldn't get the whole thing (too many hits, I suppose). I tried this one again this morning and it worked fine. Not lightening fast, but the whole thing came through. Not only is the resolution higer than most of the other sites, the whole thing is a bit larger. So it's easier to catch those little details while paused. http://lightsout.bla-bla.com/g allery/3/rotk_trailer_hi.mov
Forging of Anduril... [winks and the regular folks] What did I s by Pontsing Barset	Aug 1st, 2003 05:36:47 PM
I Noticed the stuff in the backgroung in the "wet Anduril" scene, but for some reason I got the impression it was Lorien vice Rivendell, and did not get the forging implication. I was thinking flashback? Dream? Pretty obvious in retrospect: Re-Forging/Rivendell * Are you having fun yet DM? The difference in tone you noticed was due to trying to give you the benefit of the doubt in the first post, and then addressing you more appropriatly once you'd revealed your true colors in the second. You're just a condescending prick with an inflated opinion of his own intellect and a hostile attitude. I, on the other hand, am a harmless madman who sometimes gets carried away whilst sticking up for his mates. * Trubba Not if I get bannit Tailenders...
Great story Miami! by morGoth	Aug 1st, 2003 05:43:52 PM
I remember on a flight back to Virginny from Phoenix, AZ, I noticed a guy reading
Ain't that right, sista Ob'Dewlla? by Thing-Fish	Aug 1st, 2003 06:13:32 PM
This is one of the funniest LOTR talkbacks in a looooong time! And that trailer looks exquisite, it's the salmon's nose, or the bee's thumbnail, or Something .... I's especially liking the Nazgul attacking the catapult! Yowsa! _______ And as for the spelling of Tolkien's name ... here it comes, ladies and gentlemen: "I before E, except after C" .... all together now! Good night.
RE: Death Machine by morGoth	Aug 1st, 2003 06:15:48 PM
Look, you are painting everyone with a very wide and prejudiced brush. You presume to know an entire group of people from this TB or some specific group you had an encounter with one time. Are you telling me from what I
Trubba not Pontsing! by morGoth	Aug 1st, 2003 06:17:36 PM

Death Machine---Frodo and Sam are "gay as maypoles" by HeitorTP	Aug 1st, 2003 07:44:31 PM
That is some funny sh*t.....
morGoth... yawn by El_Barstardo	Aug 1st, 2003 08:20:17 PM
Wow, a typical geek response from morGoth, how original. Just exaggerate everything, make some 'witty' insults that have no basis in any fact (everything I have said has some basis in truth, you do swoon over alice and you are a rabid Toilkien eletist) and the make yourself look big buy bragging about the last book you read. What the fuck ever. Next time I recomend just writing "LOSER" and saving everyone time. Anyway, I could go on, but frankly Death Machine has said exactly what I was trying (unsucssessfully) to say. God help anyone who want to just read the book and then put it down without memorising Aragorn's tree line first! You people are like the clowns who put "Jedi" under Religion in the national census. All I know is, harry better give this site one SERIOUS upgrate before oscar time, cos if PJ doesn't get that little golden statue, God help Mr Kong in the background there.
Ok, by Conan_the_Humble	Aug 2nd, 2003 12:12:44 AM
El-Bastardo = Loser. It's what you want isn't it? You'll probably cry foul now and oint out that I'm being a tolkien elitist or something. Or that I'm inclined to knock the top off it whilst playing with figurines. Well you guys have just as little idea about me as you do MorGoth. I'm 28 years old, own my house, I've been a police officer in Australia since I was 23. I was a member of the Australian Army when I was Seventeen and served operationally in East Timor during the United Nations backed Interfet operation in 1999. I have been living with my Girlfriend for 3 years now and will probably marry her one day. I can assure that IF I sat in front of a computer "feeding the chickens" I would NOT be marrying her... Anyway DM and El-bastardo, why don't you tell us of your "achievements" in life, if any? Cheers.
Oscar predictions, and the only way ROTK can win it by DufusyteII	Aug 2nd, 2003 12:31:20 AM
I would just like to repeat my oscar predictions. FOTR was long and boring, and so it garnered alot of nominations, because it seemed artsy. TTT was an action-packed blockbuster, so it fell into the action blockbuster category which never gets oscars; therefore it got almost no nominations. ROTK will be even more action packed, so I'm betting that it might not even get nominated for best pic, unless it gets nominated merely out of habit. ***** If ROTK is to actually win anything (aside from technical categories), it has to emphasize the element of Tragedy. It has to be full of death and mourning, especially at the end, everybody has to leave the theater crying. Only if it is a real downer will the academy consider it "a great work." If there is an element of triumph at the end, it will fall into the Star Wars category and not win. I know which side will win the war, but the movie has to make it clear that even though they won the war, they lost the world. It must be a pyrrhic victory: the spell has been broken and magic has left the land, which is inherited by war-like men, whose Age has come. The elves leave, the lights of Lorien go out, Rivendell falls into decay, Aragorn lies with his ancestors, and Arwen is left to watch the death of MiddleEarth like some interminable torture. (In the Silmarillion Tolkien had one guy tortured by being chained to a mountain while he watched all his sons get killed - or something like that; that is Arwen's fate too - to watch her world die all around her, and be forced to watch it). Finally Arwen herself, the last Evenstar of elvish light in the land, lays herself down to sleep the sleep of mortality beside her beloved man, who has been but a monument for centuries by that time (she outlived him by hundreds of years, no?) and the final shot is the death of Arwen, for she has always been the emotional backbone of the film. ***** It is said that Gibson's Passion ends with our Lady holding the corpse of her Son in her arms as he has been taken down from the cross, and she gives a look directly into the camera as if to ask mankind, what have you done? So too Arwen could give one last look into the camera before she closes her eyes for the last time, as if to say to the world of man, what have you made of the world during the Age of Man? We battled to allow you to live, and what have you made of it? Indeed, why not have her die with her teared glassy eyes open, and let the camera zoom ever closer into one eye, until it fills the screen like the Eye of Sauron, except it is the eye of the Evenstar that has finally gone out, and left the world in darkness. Fade to black.
soldiers on the battlefield by keekercatt	Aug 2nd, 2003 12:50:41 AM
Theoden tells Eowyn he "would like to see her smile again, not grieve for those whose time has come" (more or less). Scene then cuts to Dernhelm holding SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER a dying Theoden END SPOILER on the field. Why Gandalf is there, I haven't a clue, as he was...attending to other matters
Conan The Masterbator by WoodyStiffer	Aug 2nd, 2003 01:54:08 AM
Conan - it's okay if you masturbate to LOTR action figures - your girlfriend may be unsatisfied - but that's OK - at least you're "keeping it real" in Tokien Land. Regarding the Oscar predictions - The Academy has seen what Peter Jackson has to offer and has been unimpressed (my opinion is that they should have been - but, oh well) - so ROTK will get NO OSCAR WINS WHATSOEVER - so quit posting stupid shit like the "Academy has been waiting until the end of the trilogy" - the Academy recognizes films on a film by film basis - if they didn't recognize the first and the second - they won't recognize the third so save your breath. Additionally, the Rings Geeks that have been trying to do some damage control - your salivating over a "supposed" women who posts about the LOTR has been embarrassing at best. Quite while you're ahead.
correction by keekercatt	Aug 2nd, 2003 01:54:39 AM
Spoiler (?) On closer inspection, my husband informs me it's not Theoden, it's Merry based on cloak/armour.
The Return of the King??? by loc	Aug 2nd, 2003 02:27:49 AM
BREAKING NEWS: D&D IS WAY BETTER THAN LOTR HAHAHAHAHAHAH JUST PLAYING.........OR AM I? THE ROTK IS GOING TO WIN BEST PIC NEXT YEAR AND ALL OF YOU WHO DON'T THINK SO CAN SUCK DONKEY DICK, STUPID NUT-CRACKING NYMPHOS
The Academy didn't "recognize" LOTR? by daughter of time	Aug 2nd, 2003 03:30:13 AM
I guess not.... It was "only" nominated for Best Picture for each of its first two installments, along with a slew of other nominations, and has scored several wins. And considering that the votes are not publicly tallied, we have no way of knowing whether it might not have lost in each case by a single vote. Collectively, the films have been nominated for 17 separate Oscars, which is hardly what I would call heaping scorn. ***And anyone who jumps on this board to sneer about anyone else's imagined sexual habits has some real growing up to do before he's fit to join the adults in conversation. Don't you realize you only make yourself look desperate for attention?
so your a cop conan? by El_Barstardo	Aug 2nd, 2003 04:16:32 AM
Good for you. I work in the Australian gonvernement. Whats that prove? Fucked if I know, but the fact you and morGoth feel the need to post me details of your lives (which i really dont give a shit about) is rather questioning. I mean, it's not like you couldn't just be making it all up anyway. But the simple point is this: this talkback is a shamefull display of the worst aspects of geek society. The evidence is all in here. If you still can't understand what i'm saying, then you never will. So just keep making nonsense off topic assumptions about me, and go read your beloved bible for the 58th time.
El Bastardo by Ribbons	Aug 2nd, 2003 06:15:04 AM
I think most of the people here understand what you're trying to get across, but what exactly your point is is another matter entirely. I think it's no small stretch to say that the way you're handling exposing "geeks" is rather condescending. I mean, I can get pretty condescending at times and I wouldn't touch your shit with a ten-foot pole.
Dufy!!!!!!!!! by Miami Mofo	Aug 2nd, 2003 07:09:07 AM
C'mon Duf, admit it -- you're just peeved that Annie Lennox will do the 'featured' vocal rather than your beloved Loreena. ;~) ***El Barstardo, I don't know if you know the exact meaning of the Yiddish word, SHMUCK, but trust me, look in the mirror and you'll see one.
el bastardo has an epiphany by hildebrand	Aug 2nd, 2003 08:10:42 AM
You see, it came to him as he ate his bowl of wheatina this a.m., a sudden dawning realization (could have been the espresso kicking in, but you can never really be too sure about these things) that he was responsible for becoming the arbiter of all that is right and proper on internet movie fan sites. His calling certain (or as certain as you can be about anything in this post-modern world, where deconstruction is now passe and we have all morphed into cultural critics flogging our latest bit of rhetorical analysis) he strikes out to put those infernal wretches on the internet in their place. Woe to those who simply want to write about a movie that they really like. Be afraid, those of you who might like particular books which have been turned into movies. Recognize the sinful nature, you who would inappropriately gush about forthcoming films that are in particular genres (yes, you sci-fi and fantasy geeks). Oh, the shame. But you see, someone must tend to you. Someone must keep the world safe from people just like you. And so it has begun. First the ritual clensing of geeks on an internet site, and more the next. Soon, expunging your type from movie theatres. Book stores. Office buildings. Wherever your ilk may be found, el bastardo will be there to protect the rest of society from your sickened and feverish rantings. We will safer for his gallant actions. We will sleep more soundly because of his sacrifice. We are all indebted. Or maybe it was all just a bit of indigestion. One can never be sure. Best to make the most of it though.
This looks wonderful beyond measure by Xyzan	Aug 2nd, 2003 11:58:45 AM
I can't download the trailer, either the links don't take me to the trailer, or my server falls out after about a minute, so i'll resolve myself to not seeing this yet, but thanks to DoT for posting the link to the screencaps, i've got to see the main pictures. i have to mention this... the white shirtedness of pippin! okay, that's got that out of the way, there is just too much of this to take in! Yep, anduril looks absolutly stunning, and i agree, it's probably just been forged there. the fell beast in front of shadowfax just looks like something i want in a poster, and the only question i ahve is where are the eagles? heh. this has made me much happier about the wait, because at least we know that some of these scenes are bound to turn up in one of the versions. But look closely at the eye and tell me that there's not something different there? the pic i've seen has what looks like half a ring encircling it. is it expanded in the actual trailer or not?
Hi, Xyzan by daughter of time	Aug 2nd, 2003 12:26:46 PM
I couldn't link to the trailer, either, but glad to hear you found the screen caps. That certainly is the Ring floating in the Eye. And Pippin is such a cutie; I can hardly wait to see him in his Gondorian armor. (He gets to be white-shirted AND dark and dashing!) ***I, for one, am enjoying the biographical information. Some people with hostility issues just can't get that other people who post here LIKE each other.
Hullo Xyzan! by morGoth	Aug 2nd, 2003 02:34:48 PM
Long time no see mellon, welcome back. OK, there are exactly three frames in the trailer showing the Eye. I can see where you and DoT think it might be the Ring superimposed. The pic you see, being frame two, shows it coming up from the top left, yes? It DOES look like a ring. However, the next frame shows it moving up a tad but then the lower right part of the ring turns into a flame stretching across the Eye pupil. Not enough to go by, really, but it
RE: El_Barstardo, WoodyStiffer and Death Machine. by morGoth	Aug 2nd, 2003 03:34:59 PM
El_Whatever
Mindless speculation time by Xyzan	Aug 2nd, 2003 06:59:43 PM
i think it's time i help towards that then. thanks for the greetings, but that's kind of disappointing to learn it might not be the eye morgy. i was thinking that might have been a nifty way of having sauron gaining power/awareness, instead of a full on physical manefestaion, if that had already been ruled out. but oh well, we'll have to wait. this has been an excedingly entertaining tb, but i've decided not to bother responding to the trolls anymore, they don't listen anyway. but yes, lots more hobbitry in this film, and i'm looking forward to the armour, except the rather disturbing helmets they've put on the hobbits! we can't see their faces properly! i hope they don't take to wearing them too often. I think it's time to have another crack at finishing the silmarillion, as i only got halfway through last time, and i have to take any excuse to read up on the valar. So who can name all of them for me (without looking at the book...tut tut tut;)
meta-criticism and mean-spiritedness by hildebrand	Aug 2nd, 2003 07:18:14 PM
It seems that as soon as a LOTR talkback veers into a discussion about the movie or text (shocking as that may sound, many of us are interested in the tidbits from both), the trolls become cranky both in their meta-criticism and in their tone. It seems as though they can't quite cut it in a discussion of the issues and topics at hand, and so therefore have to sit back and pick on the way in which the points are argued, or the personality of the one crafting the post. Now, I can kind of see the validity of the former, but it is the latter that really mystifies me. How does ripping on someone you couldn't pick out of a line-up improve your idea or prove your argument. In logic this is an ad hominem attack, and therefore fallacious. Now, do the common trolls really want to prove that they start out their arguments with a fallacy? Or is it that they simply want to piss on people's excitement. Either way, it seems a bit of a sad way of approaching a fan site about movies. ****As for me, the trailer was simply too short. I am ready for the film, and look forward to seeing how Jackson spins out the rest of this very gripping yarn.
Gaffer drinks the cup o' guilt near Weymoot! by morGoth	Aug 2nd, 2003 07:23:44 PM
Sorry to pop your Eye Ring thingy there Xyzan (beats self with stick). Yup, can't see Merry and Pip's faces but you get to swoon over them all dressed to kill, so to speak, before they start all the fighting. Lessee, at the risk of being accused of a (fill-in-the-blank), I'll take a stab at the Vala names WITH their mates: Manwe/Varda, Mandos/Seren-something (gah!), Aule/Yavanna, Tulkas/(no mate) and Ulmo/(no mate). Hey, I know I missed some but what's the prize anyway? Sigh, I s'pose I'll lose my Hyperbolic Facist Bully Tolkienite Uber-Geek Cult membership card over this. Whine...
Some questions... by hildebrand	Aug 2nd, 2003 08:35:30 PM
1. Has there been any real information about if the movie plans on showing an actual, physical Sauron? 2. Since the Scouring of the Shire is out, what will they include to get the gang from Gondor to the Shire to the Gray Havens? 3. Will they have Wormtongue slit Saruman's throat at Orthanc? 4. Do you think Peter Jackson will skim over the wedding just as Tolkien did? (I am hoping for that, because, gads, I just am not a fan of weddings in movies, as a general rule) Many thanks for your thoughts in advance.
Hildebrand by Ribbons	Aug 2nd, 2003 09:08:29 PM
The last I heard, there were whispers of a corporeal Sauron fighting Aragorn in the film. Then again, that might be a nagging rumor; you've probably done a better job of tracking the movie's progress than me, after all. Saruman might get his throat slit by Wormtongue and I do believe that the grimy little chap is the one that does him in, but the actual device that puts the hammer in Chris Lee's coffin is much different than a knife to the neck. At least, as far as I've heard. Perhaps more pernicious rumors. If so, I apologize for my ignorance; I'm only trying to help, after all.
Whoops, I used "after all" twice in three sentences. by Ribbons	Aug 2nd, 2003 09:11:29 PM
Forgive me. I'm not exactly a master wordsmith, after all........ Sorry, that was lame.
THANKS!!! by BIGPOTATOGIRL	Aug 2nd, 2003 09:55:55 PM
i've just subscribe to the talkback to thank everybody who posted links to the ROTK trailer when torn took it down i was ready to throw myself over a cliff. man the trailer looks beautiful!!!. Dec 17 cant wait.
PJ quasi-settles the Sauron question **BIG-OL' SHPOILERS by Pallando Blue	Aug 3rd, 2003 01:34:29 AM
Heya hildebrand, in the latest Fan Club mag that very question was put to PJ, and he was surprisingly forthcoming. Had it up in a previous TB, I'll paste it here for you: FC: "There have been reports about Sauron appearing in physical form in ROTK. How would you comment on this?" PJ: "People should wait and see the film and see how we deal with Sauron, but at the end of the day, we are not doing anything too dissimilar to the book. I feel that Sauron has to really remain true to the way he is used in the book, and he is really only ever a metaphysical presence of evil--he is not in physical form by the time the events of the third age take place. We are really trying to stick with what is in the book." So there ya go, the Man Hisownself both does and doesn't answer the question. I'm pretty sure that at the very least that means he won't be going toe to toe with Aragorn at the Gates. My guess is that might go down in the video game, but that's it. My further out-of-my-ass guess is that he'll be in Barad-dur in some form other than the Eye at the very end of the film, just to have it all come crashing down on top of him. Plus, I'm really, really looking forward to the Great Double-Take when ____ puts the ____ on right in the heart of __ ____. "What the--!? Oooh, crap." Hey, maybe he'll be taking a sip of something right then, and suddenly there'll be this huge Spit-Take spume blasting out of the top tower... Richard Taylor could rig that. Sweet.
i just had to come out of hiding for this... by imageburn13	Aug 3rd, 2003 02:03:38 AM
To El_Bastardo: I gotta chime in here, cuz I think you need some straigtening out; you repeatedly commented that the geekiness gets turned up to 11 when LOTR gets mentioned...I happen to like LOTR because they are a beautiful escape from reality. But you've labeled me as a geek. I used to snowboard every day for two years and my girlfriend is from New Zealand, of which i am going to visit in 7 days. Wow i'm so geeky! Its your inenptitude towards people here that is questionable, you made stupid comments and you should just apologize for them. Or just don't open your big mouth from now on. Save your breath, becuase you'd rather just attack people than be a respectful tb'er. We all know you're new to this site, dont be an ass.
Yup, figgers by Ribbons	Aug 3rd, 2003 03:01:49 AM
Sorry for the waste of broadband, then.
Sauron Incarnate by irritable	Aug 3rd, 2003 03:23:30 AM
Gollum reported that he saw nine functioning fingers of the Black Hands while assisting Sauron with enquiries, so Sauron did have physical form (other than the humungous Opto-electrical whatsit on top of Barad Dur) late in the Third Age. The fact that Sauron's spirt rose like a _______ of ______ above Udun when Gollum made his involunary lava swan-dive with reverse pike does not mean that PJ can't depict Sauron as he appears in the Prologue (with metacarpal deficit) if he really, really finds it necessary to add another "improvement" to the story.
I would much rather read my beloved 'bible' by Conan_the_Humble	Aug 3rd, 2003 10:07:12 AM
than talk to you Bastardo, and I've probably read it much more than 58 times. Which Australian Government Department do you work for? I'd reckon it'd have to be Taxation with your sneering, bitter attitude towards the rest of humanity. Your (alleged) point about the 'geekness level' in this talkback is a fantastic argument. You're hanging around here... Keep them coming Bastardo, you're 'on fire'. You could at least try to be humorous if you have to keep butting in to this (mostly) civilised conversation. I understand perfectly what you write in this talkback. I doubt if you understand me. The main persons who post in LOTR talkbacks are (in no particular order) MorGoth, Elanor, Pallando Blue, Miami Mofo, Daughter of Time, myself and others who post somewhat less frequently. We enjoy discussing Tolkien's works and these movies. Why do you have a problem with that? What difference does it make to you? This (and I use little words to ensure your comprehension) IS A MOVIE SITE. The talkbacks as the name suggests, are designed to allow movie FANS to discuss theses movies and related matters. If this displeases you I'm certain you could figure out what to do about it... And Woody-stiffer, as DOT pointed out, the grown ups are talking here, come back in about 6 or 7 years, when you've learnt some manners. Cheers.
Hope morGoth has hosed out all the Poo-painters ... by irritable	Aug 3rd, 2003 11:32:27 AM
... or is El_Barstardo still planning to flog us into line with the limp lettuce leaf of his invective. Hate to break the news, Mr B, but as your countrymen Roy and HG would say, you're in a Homer Simpson v Paul Dirac face-off, but you're the chunky guy with the yellow skin. Graceful retreat is always a respectable Darwinian option however ....
After all, Ribbons by morGoth	Aug 3rd, 2003 12:04:46 PM

"Of old there was Sauron the Maia ... by irritable	Aug 3rd, 2003 12:47:37 PM
In the beginning of Arda Melkor seduced him to his allegiance,' Though it seems he did travel under the moniker "Thu" at one stage ...
The funny thing about you Tolkien Fanatics is... by El_Barstardo	Aug 3rd, 2003 07:37:59 PM
you are the exact type of fans that the good professor couldn't stand. Imageburn13 - I don't recall calling you a geek specifically, try reading what I write before making assumptions. There is a difference between discussing films (and, as I have said before, I love these films) and being a tosser who speaks in some mutated form of 'yea olde english' as if he were living in the Shire. Go read ANY other talkback, then return and read this one, and tell me you don't notice the difference is eletist stupidity. As for the rest of you, I noticed a potato girl has joined the chat. I'm sure it's just like an early Christmass for you. So carry on with this cracking conversation, and all that rot.
El Bastardo, with all due respect to Tolkien and "geeks who need by Ribbons	Aug 3rd, 2003 09:44:50 PM
Tolkien spent half of his life studying languages and mythologies and moon charts that didn't even exist. You don't think that using him as a paragon for virtue in sanity in reality is a little more ironic than the reason you utilized his reputation in the first place?
Tolkien and the people who read his books by hildebrand	Aug 3rd, 2003 10:22:23 PM
The problem, of course, is that once the author puts the last key of the typewriter to the paper, the work is no longer simply his (or hers). The work then becomes a part of those who read it, and it is their reaction to the text that is important to them, not what the author thinks of those who read the book. It is patently irrelevent what Tolkien thought of the overzealous fans, because he has his perspective, they have theirs, and they are the ones putting money into his pocket. Do some folks go overboard? You bet, but that is their right as readers of a text. Their reaction is just that, their reaction. This idea magnifies when you are dealing with a medium that calls for people to present their opinion of movies and the books that are the foundation for those movies. If you are dealing with posts that are primarily emotional responses to particular stimuli, then folks should not be surprised by the fact that emotional outbursts occur. Nonetheless, the main issue raised is that the geeks shouldn't really allow their geekiness to come through in their posts. But does this not seem to say that this site shouldn't really exist? Because frankly, every talkback I have ever read contains visceral reactions to movies and their effect on people.
Ribbons by El_Barstardo	Aug 3rd, 2003 11:36:05 PM
Good point, but it is also well known that Tolkien couldn't stand his overzealous fans, which many talkbackers would be. Anyway, at no point in time did I say "you geeks need to get lives" or anything of the sort. Rather I stated that people who wear their LOTR fanatisim on their chest like a proud general and look down upon the rest of us 'unwashed masses' as some form of inferior being for not possesing the ability to speak 2 forms of elvish, while trying to act like a B-grade Errol Flynn because one of those rare beasts known as 'female' has chosen to post, need to have a hard long look at themselves.
Dude by Ribbons	Aug 4th, 2003 01:29:11 AM
Are you sure you don't have an inferiority complex or anything? I would just say they're finding obscure ways to entertain themselves; I hardly doubt they think that reading the Silmarillion annually makes them better than those who haven't. Then again, anything that flies below the radar usually DOES get invariably lauded on this site. Maybe there's a little bit of pomposity, but a lot of it is probably accentuated by your dislike for it. And you're still being way condescending. Whatever; your battle, but trying to convert Tolkienites is like trying to hold back the tide.
The Trailer is up in IMESH by loc	Aug 4th, 2003 02:30:42 AM
I'm yelling you that the trailer is in IMESH. I'm always using IMESH and if anybody wants to downloaded, y'all more welcome cause let me tell you that trailer is great.
Gorthaur the Cruel (and Abhorred) by Miami Mofo	Aug 4th, 2003 06:19:22 AM
t'was a name that Sauron was once known by. I understand that these days he's working as a government bureaucrat.
Euro AICN by Miami Mofo	Aug 4th, 2003 06:30:35 AM
Thought I'd save y'all the trouble of checking out the link to 'Hobbiton X'. If you're not fluent in Italian, you might have some trouble. On the other hand, if you are fluent in Italian (I am, but only when it comes to eating their food -- yummy!) please let me know if there's anything of interest.
Tell ya what El Barstardo, by Conan_the_Humble	Aug 4th, 2003 07:03:29 AM
Can you tell me the Lotto numbers for next Saturday night? You must have access to a Palantir if you can "tell" what Professor Tolkien would have thought of us. Don't try and accuse us of being Tolkien 'geeks' and then try and tell us what Tolkien would have thought of us. Don't you think we might know? One moment you accuse us of reading LOTR 57 times and the next you're saying we don't understand Tolkien. I recall you stating you've read the Lord of the Rings once or twice and that you're even a fan. Try reading 'letters' and you might understand something of the Professor's thoughts. Tolkien did NOT like fans who staked out his house or telephoned him at 3 o'clock in the morning to discuss some plot point in his stories, or such. Tolkien himself was very appreciative of his fans and at least prior to the massive popularity his stories eventually enjoyed, often responded personally to his fans enquiries. Anyhoo I've now had enough of you and am going to prove my 'elitist superiority' by ignoring you from now on. MorGoth despite some research the best I can come up with is Aulendil, ie: Smith of Aule. Cheers.
Beautiful post there Dufy... by Skyway Moaters	Aug 4th, 2003 09:29:22 AM
... and if, as it is somtimes rumoured, that PJ browses these boards, he could do a WHOLE lot worse than to your posst to heart and go for the tone, an even exact ending you describe. Well done Brudda, dat 1 was obviously from de hart...
El_Barstardo.... by Skyway Moaters	Aug 4th, 2003 09:34:17 AM
... we don't understand because you don't make sense. You come accross as a childish raving lunatic....
The Mouth of Sauron by djinnj	Aug 4th, 2003 10:06:21 AM
Couldn't it be he at the gates, since we know he has been cast? Just a thought, and even Tolkien felt the need for a corporeal baddy at the end. // I have decided that I don't like the trailer. It is too fantastic, and it tantalizes too much. It just highlights the fact that we've _4.5 months_ left before the film will be available and almost 1 month before we can even see TTT again. Poop. // And, incidentally, if my comments on this TB are considered 'geeking out,' (which I recognize and in which I take some rather sheepish pride; enthusiasm is a great and wonderful thing), then boy y'all ain't seen nothin'. I've entered 2 of Harry's LOTR contests, to say nothing of the party idea they have inspired....
Umm, MorGoth ... by irritable	Aug 4th, 2003 10:32:01 AM
... at the risk of overstimulating meanspirited killjoys like (D'oh) El_B ... I thought the original conception, Thu was known by the Gnomes as Gorthu, then Gorthaur: then in later conceptions, Sauron made himself known to the Noldor as Artano or Aulendil, much later, as Annatar. But these (including Sauron) are all Elvish names, right? Is there some undisclosed Valinorean name? Geez, Ron T was coy about that!
Fiddle-dee-dee! There goes the Club Angband expense account for by morGoth	Aug 4th, 2003 10:51:06 AM
Heh, it was a trick question (or blatantly obvious, if you prefer) and Miami got the right line from the Silmarillion. So, you ARE reading it! Irritable, I know Aulendil is listed in Unfinished Tales but is it really an Elvish name? At any rate, it's an easier question than coming up with "Tevildo!" OK, so Conan, Miami and irritable all get to go since you all three were right. Don't forget your towels! ** I second Moaters congrats of Dufusyte's post. I hope somebody does bring it to PJ's attention though I'd rather think they were concentrating on post production right now, yes?
Gyrocoptic Mouth of Sauron by irritable	Aug 4th, 2003 10:54:58 AM
Djinnj, Oz stage actor Bruce Spence (the Gyro Pilot from Mad Max II) is cast as the Mouth of Sauron, and judging from recent interviews, is expecting to see himself up on screen in December. Not sure if that leaves much room for an "up close and personal" appearance by the Big Guy. Peter Jackson sounds like he wants, like Tokien, to preserve the mystery up to the final dramatic minutes. And who could argue?
So let's get this straight, Bauglir, old boy ... by irritable	Aug 4th, 2003 11:24:12 AM
... three nights for me and Ms Cranky with complimentary miruvor in the Ansereg suite and vouchers for the Solisimpi Dancers and the Prince of Cats lapdance spectacular? Right?
Bruce Spence--Master of the Third Act by Pallando Blue	Aug 4th, 2003 12:12:40 PM
I picked up somehwere that not only is Spence the Mouth, but he also appears in Matrix: Revolutions and has a small role in Episode III. Talk about hitting the Geek Cameo Trifecta! ...Looks like the Jedi Council boards were just the colonic that was needed around here. morG, go check out the formal apology to you and yours. ;) Busier'n a hobbit's jaw at breakfast, barely have spare time enough to watch the teaser over, and over, and over...
Irritable and Pallando... by morGoth	Aug 4th, 2003 12:28:21 PM
Irritable: Yes, all that PLUS full privileges to the Tulkas Fitness and Wrassling Center. ** Pallando...I'm there!
Bruce Spence and my 'crackpot theories' by Miami Mofo	Aug 4th, 2003 01:00:34 PM
I too am looking forward to seeing Bruce Spence as The Mouth. Also, my I remind everyone that in my 'crackpot theories' of a few months ago I stated that not only would we see him at the Black Gate, we would previously see him at Cirith Ungol interrogating Frodo. I just feel that he will be given more to do than just that one scene at the Gate.
Gandalf agrees with me. by Miami Mofo	Aug 4th, 2003 01:28:22 PM
Just read the 'Ultimate DVD' articles that TORn has linked to. This from Sir Ian's interview: Q: "Are you disappointed that the Academy Awards have not yet recognized Peter Jackson's exceptional work on The Lord of the Rings?" A: "It doesn't seem much to perturb Peter himself and the reputations of many great directors have survived without winning an Oscar. I should be surprised if the Academy didn't want to acknowledge the unique achievement of the trilogy [Sorry, Moaters, but he is talking movies, and not book.] by singling out its director next year." ***And as for what we have to look forward to: Q: "What can we expect from Return of the King." A: "The best of the three."
You think Gandalf's interview is good, Mofo by Pallando Blue	Aug 4th, 2003 03:37:44 PM
Read Pellerin's quick paragraph describing ROTK, a version of which the son of a mangy dog has seen. Now that there's hyperbole I can cotton to. Neat interview on the DVD production, too. Three weeks and less than a day til I blow off work for wall-to-wall DVD-ing!
runner up prizes by Xyzan	Aug 4th, 2003 03:53:01 PM
You forgot Nienna! I can't believe you forgot Nienna (she's my favourite!), also Vana, Varie (not sure that's spelt correctly) Orome (know that's not) Este and Nessa. (imagine accents over the majority of those and it'll be right. There's none beginning with s though. As a runner up prize you can have this shiny gold circular trinket and a bottle of pink nail varnish to give away at Club Angband.
Yeah, but it shoulda been TOMORROW!!!!!!!!! by Miami Mofo	Aug 4th, 2003 03:56:27 PM
Let us not forget that last year, the LotR:FotR DVD was released Tuesday, August 6th. Now since LotR:FotR opened on 12/19, and T2T on 12/18, the T2T DVD should've been released Tuesday, August 5th. ***I wonder why the Region 2 (Europe, I believe) DVD's are listed as 179 minutes long, while Region 1 (N. America) is "only" 175 minutes. What goes on during those mysterious four minutes? Is this anyway related to Nixon's erased tapes and Bush's 28 blank pages? It's a CONSPIRICY, I say! Someone should unmask it. ;~) [Alice, Xyzan, we're counting on you to fill in the blanks!]
It is from The Two Towers ROTK Preview by IndianaJones007	Aug 4th, 2003 04:21:11 PM
I have got an early copy of the Region 2 Retail of The Two Towers dvd and the trailer for ROTK is taken from the end of the preview footage on the special features disc.
by morGoth	Aug 4th, 2003 04:25:59 PM
Yep, that
Thanks IndianaJones007! by morGoth	Aug 4th, 2003 04:33:07 PM
That settles it then. Dang, no RoTK trailers surprises but it'll STILL be the first thing I check out on the DVD. Of course, the quality will be better too.
Ummm, Conan by El_Barstardo	Aug 4th, 2003 06:33:29 PM
"Can you tell me the Lotto numbers for next Saturday night? You must have access to a Palantir if you can "tell" what Professor Tolkien would have thought of us." - you drop 'comments' like this and then wonder why I call you a rabid fanboy geek? If somebody cuts you off in a car, do you scream "I'll get the old Gaffer onto ya!" out the window? In other news, as far as the whole "will Sauron appear at the end' question goes, the law of film says he must, at least in a weakend form. The audience saw him at the start, and expect to see him again at the end. The problem with NOT having Aaragorn fight Sauron is that it makes his 'journey' seem less important than Ishilder's (Yeah I know I spelt that wrong, down boys down) who had to go toe to toe with the big guy, creating the whole 'gangs of new york affect' (where the historical figures stories in the film were more interesting than the main casts.) And Ingold - don't feed the trolls!
Well, I was close... by El_Barstardo	Aug 4th, 2003 07:15:05 PM
As a product of the 'spell-check' generation who struggles to spell ordinary english words of more than 3 letters, I assure you that was no intentional mistake. However, I thought I better cover my ass, as we all know that AICN is a paragon of spelling virtue.
The Law of Film by Miami Mofo	Aug 4th, 2003 07:51:01 PM
El_B's 'law of film' comment, in my opinion, is just what is wrong with most Hollywood movies. Why does there have to be a 'law of film', which only seems bring down the potential of a movie, rather than enhance it. BREAK THE MOLD dammit!!!!!!!!!
Thank heavens Jackson is a mould breaker... by morGoth	Aug 4th, 2003 08:40:46 PM
...or the Law of Film would've dictated Aragorn storm Barad-dur riding on an eagle. AFTER, he'd dropped the Ring in Mt. Doom. Fortunately, PJ is sticking to the more hidden menace but I think his exagerated depictions of the Eye of Sauron will be indicative of something else to come. Again, Aragorn and the Palantir could be worked into an amazing scene. Having a powerful striding and martial Sauron might confuse people and make them wonder what the big deal was about losing his Ring.PJ sure ain't sappy enough to do that. Now, it is said that some may see through a brick wall in time. While others...
Thirsty barking bastard by Seepgood	Aug 4th, 2003 09:02:42 PM
Well, I've read through this TB and on arriving at the bottom I am pleasantly surprised to find a post from El Bastardo that's actually partly about a film, rather than about the supposed deficiencies of other posters. Nifty innovation that, could catch on. Anyway, to the point. I don't really see that there can be any objection to showing Sauron in some form at the end of the film: after all, in the book we are given a description of what he's thinking and doing during those last moments, so giving us a portrayal of that reaction can hardly be regarded as a serious divergence from the book, let alone a seriously detrimental one. Gollum's "nine fingers" line has already been mentioned, clearing up the question of whether Sauron can be presented in any form other than the Eye at this stage. It would be nice if he seemed more insubstantial, less of a coherent physical presence than in the prologue, but that's a minor issue. (Alternatively, if the money's running out they could just splice in Gary Oldman's final moments from Leon. That would get the gist of it across.) Going one on one with Aragorn though...noooo, I REALLY don't think that's a good idea. It would elevate the significance of the "war" plot and diminish that of the "quest" plot, dissipating the sense that the armed clash of powers on which everybody's attention is focused is ultimately a side-show, part holding action and part diversion, and that it is Sauron's fundamental inability to grasp that this is even conceivable which is his undoing. This would in turn undermine central themes of the story: the inadequacy of meeting force with force, the importance of renouncing the power that corrupts, the primacy of the spiritual struggle over the physical. Anything that encourages the view that what really matters is having more muscle or better weapons moves the world of the story towards Sauron's idea of it, towards the blinkered thinking of an evil mind that cannot comprehend the notion that anyone offered the chance of supreme power would ever willingly throw it away. It would move the story towards being just another Nietzschian heroic fantasy, abandoning the Christian ethos of the book. It would, in short, be a Bad Thing. You might argue that I'm exaggerating the effect that this one modification would have on the impact of the story, and you might very well be right. However, the fact that cinema favours the spectacular means that the balance is already weighted towards the war plot, making it particularly important to avoid any changes that tilt the balance further in that direction. (The fact that PJ has explained his decision to move the events at Cirith Ungol to the third film in terms of increasing the emphasis on the quest plot suggests that he is aware of this problem, which is heartening (his decision to move the confrontation at Orthanc to the third film as well remains a somewhat baffling mystery).) With regard to Mr B'Stard's specific comments I would ask, when exactly did the audience's expectations become "the law of film"? Giving the audience what they expect may be a smart move commercially, but unless you've got shares in AOL Time Warner, what do you care? If I thought Peter Jackson was making these films with the aim of giving the movie-going public what they've been conditioned to expect, I wouldn't bother turning up. As for the comparison with Isildur; firstly, the diminishing scale and grandeur of things as time passes is a fundamental characteristic of Tolkien's world. The effect you describe is therefore perfectly in keeping in with how this story should feel. Secondly, I would point out that Isildur fails, and that Aragorn succeeds precisely because he is not like Isildur and does not repeat Isildur's mistakes. His ""journey"" should not bear too much resemblance to Isildur's. And finally, there is a limit to how much importance Aragorn's story should be given anyway, for the reasons mentioned above. OK?
"Having a powerful striding and martial Sauron might confuse peo by El_Barstardo	Aug 4th, 2003 09:08:18 PM
It will probably be a 'ghost' form which comes out of the black gate, similar to the ghost described sitting in the tower. It battles Aaragorn, and just as he is about to strike the killing blow the ring is destroyed and all Sauron's ghost is destroyed. That's how I see it ending. I don't see PJ ending one of the climaxes film with the group just fighting nameless orcs and trolls again. It also makes a stronger visual representation of Sauron being destroyed than having him in the tower when he dies, which could be difficult to pull off. But we will see come december, I guess.
The law of film comment by El_Barstardo	Aug 4th, 2003 09:24:41 PM
I'm not implying that this needs to be some focus group driven film, but rather I was talking about the old fundamental rules of storytelling that you always hear about in script school. Specifically I was refering to the old "If you show the audience a gun in the first act, it needs to go off by the third" comment. I forgot who said it (too early in the morning for me), may have been Orson Wells. Anyway, all I'm saying is that the audience (who havn't read the book) will be expecting to see Sauron at the films climax. To not do so could lead to a major case of people feeling that the ending was anti-climactic. "Nine hours of build up and the bad guy doesn't show? What a rip-off!" If Sauron indeed doesn't show, it may have been a better decision to not have shown him in the prelude, keep him as 'unknown' force, like the Neverending story. But the fact he was shown raises audience expectations that he will show again. It's the same reason as to why the scouring got cut out (though I have a sneaking suspicion it may be on the extended DVD), because after the main battle it would be viewed as an anti-climax, and thus breaks the 'laws' of film when the climax is normally the last event.
I came from the end of tail, but no tail went over me by Seepgood	Aug 4th, 2003 09:30:55 PM
Pallando, you say you're daunted by Judo John knowing the term "tailender". Surely you should be more worried by the prospect of El Bastardo getting hold of it - with his over-active imagination can you imagine what he'd make of that one? I shudder to think. Anyway, someone let me know if Death Machine shows his face around here again - I lack the Tailenders' flair and expertise in the art of online invective, but I wouldn't mind giving that self-satisfied prig a piece of my mind. Though there's little enough of it left to give...
The law of film comment by El_Barstardo	Aug 4th, 2003 09:32:35 PM
I'm not implying that this needs to be some focus group driven film, but rather I was talking about the old fundamental rules of storytelling that you always hear about in script school. Specifically I was refering to the old "If you show the audience a gun in the first act, it needs to go off by the third" comment. I forgot who said it (too early in the morning for me), may have been Orson Wells. Anyway, all I'm saying is that the audience (who havn't read the book) will be expecting to see Sauron at the films climax. To not do so could lead to a major case of people feeling that the ending was anti-climactic. "Nine hours of build up and the bad guy doesn't show? What a rip-off!" If Sauron indeed doesn't show, it may have been a better decision to not have shown him in the prelude, keep him as 'unknown' force, like the Neverending story. But the fact he was shown raises audience expectations that he will show again. It's the same reason as to why the scouring got cut out (though I have a sneaking suspicion it may be on the extended DVD), because after the main battle it would be viewed as an anti-climax, and thus breaks the 'laws' of film when the climax is normally the last event.
There's one thing I like about you El Barstardo, by Conan_the_Humble	Aug 4th, 2003 11:50:19 PM
Your seemingly never-ending ability to make something resembling a point, without ever making any attempt whatsoever at rationalising it. Instead you resort to name calling. Tell me, you must have been in the debating team at school with that sort of wit, surely? As others more succinctly here have pointed out, even going to the lengths of quoting PJ DIRECTLY, Sauron will NOT be fighting Aragorn mano e maiaro. (See Pallando I've turned completely around from my earlier position...) A spy reported seeing a 'big black dude' in armour striding around, with 9 ringwraiths (or something like that, I forget the exact words he/she used) around him. This spy then went on to say that this 'big black dude' fought with Aragorn in a one on one. The spy speculated that this was Sauron. It was never confirmed. There have been other spy reports indicating that the Witchking looks almost identical to Sauron (as depicted in the prologue of FOTR) in ROTK, (at least until the makers realised this and changed his appearance somewhat.) It is at least somewhat conceivable that Aragorn may fight either the Witchking or the Mouth of Sauron. Even PJ won't change the story to have Aragorn fighting a corporeal or otherwise Sauron in ROTK, due to the reasons outline by Seepgood above. Ingold I humbly prostrate myself before you and Mr MOATERS (and his alterego's) and apologise for my overlooking of you (and him). Cheers.
CAP Nazi checking in... by JD1866	Aug 5th, 2003 12:40:03 AM
Ingold, check your e-mail. * MorGoth, those give-aways are coming out of your share of the profits. And I want receipts. Signed. And in triplicate. * Hi to all ~waves~ and thanks for a most amusing talkback.
Unfortunately, there does "seem" to be a 'Law of Film' by Miami Mofo	Aug 5th, 2003 03:45:30 AM
that Hollywood operates on, which seems designed to bring everything down to the lowest common denominator. Fortunately for us however, P.J.'s making these "home movies", sidestepping that 'Law' and giving what the story demands -- particularly with regard to the SEV's. Thank Eru for that! *Wonderful post Seepgood. Nice to see you drop by. A minor point: Gollum actually says (in the book), "There are FOUR fingers on the Black Hand, but they are enough." Important continuity point: We had better NOT hear that exact line in RotK, because in the LotR:FotR prologue, I counted four fingers that went flying when Isildur slashed the Black Hand. Hi JD. Thanks for the links (I did download Quicktime 6) and the Get Well wishes. *Finally, a new take on our favorite poem: THREE weeks until the DVD; FIFTEEN until the SEV... [Continues tomorrow]
Have you checked your AICN user ID e-mail addy lately Ingold? by Skyway Moaters	Aug 5th, 2003 09:45:09 AM
... How's it hanging ye long winded ol' stonemason type person you?! Oh shit, I'm being too affectionate towards another poster! AND in a manner that has an OBVIOUSLY homoerotic undertone! AWP! Hark... is that the DMBarstardo(tm) Thought Police I hear pounding on the basement door?! Or is it just my 300-pound "girl"fwend coming down the stairs? Sniff Sniff No, no discernable odor shit and mayonnaise, must be the storm troopers after all! MOMMY!... * I sent you a 10Mb version of the teaser Ingold; too big for your ISP? Check yer mail buddy! * There is absolutely NO reason to vary from Sauron's manifestation in the Third Age as depicted in the book; 'Laws of Film' not withstanding. The "cinematic payoff" can be achieved by the use of 'Swoopage' as we [tail-enders], (err, pathetic deluded Tolkien er,Tolkein(?), umm, Tolkeen? Ah, Tollkyen?... Ahem ANYway... Geeks) have discussed. It started out as kind of a jokey exercise in stylized pros but is actually quite an effective way of describing how it COULD be done in a manner that is consistent with the text and that would still meet "audience expectations" (for whatever THAT'S worth). Consider this from a few TB's ago. Think sweeping, panning camera shot's; motion control miniatures work or: SWOOPAGE!: Lemme see.... Hmm, Ultimate SWOOPAGE ...would have to be when Frodo puts on the Ring in Sammath Naur, and the Dark Lord is suddenly aware of him and of: "the magnitude of his folly"! Holy jumping catfish!! Can't you just see it fellas?! Streaking out the entrance to The Cracks-O-Doom, hurtling along the road between Barad Dur and Orodruin, screaming past Orcs, Trolls, Lieutenants, Captains and Marshals, straight up the side of the dark tower and into Sauron's sanctuary! THEN smack dab into the center of the flaming eye! Then THROUGH the eye! Into the sky above the Morannon to the Nazgul! Who turn with ear rending shrieks to streak back into Mordor, to the mountain of fire, JUST as the Eagles of Manwe come rocketing down from the upper airs! WHEW! Namrie Mellyn (except for them crookit
... barsets DM um Barsetardo) Trubb Not. SM{;-0 by Skyway Moaters	Aug 5th, 2003 10:00:20 AM
... dnaged enter key...
what he said! (as if they weren't 'spoiled' already for everyon by djinnj	Aug 5th, 2003 10:11:11 AM
Moaters, I mean. Exactly what he said. Remember, there is no possible way that Sauron can be defeated militarily. None. So, what better than showing the armies of the west (a mere tithe of what they were in the days of Gondor's power) about to be completely swamped by an enormous array of Easterlings, Southrons, Trolls, Orcs, Wraiths, Lizards, and assorted other nasties, and then have everything stop when Sauron pulls his attention away? Talk about jeopardy, suspense, sheer Oh-My-God-ness of the whole thing! // And, back to something much earlier, alas that the Scouring of the Shire is not to be. I actually feel it is the whole purpose of the rest of the adventure. Demonstrating that the first 96% is also a functional bildungsroman, but perhaps that's just me.... However, there's no difficulty w/the Grey Havens. Simply have the hobbits go home. Show Frodo finishing the Red Book, Sam mustering all that courage he's discovered over a long journey and asking a certain hobbit lass a certain pertinant question. Perhaps some bits with Merry and Pippin being big hobbits in the community, all impressive in their shiny armour. Then have Frodo take a little night time ride w/Sam and the others (I really do hope they come running up, as in the book). It's simple enough to leave out the Scouring entirely and have their homecoming closer to what they (and the reader, the first time 'round) have imagined. sigh I'm already wondering when the extended dvd for RotK will be out. Damn....
AND djinnj wins the Kewpie Doll! SPOILERS? Mebbe... by Skyway Moaters	Aug 5th, 2003 11:12:00 AM
EXACTLY djinnj old man! In terms of 'Laws of Film' even, but more especially in terms of the structure of the novel: SOTS IS THE "PAYOFF"! It's the event in the story that the entire plot is 'leading back to'. It's what the 4 "Hero Hobbits" have been prepared for. It is the tale's emotional center; it brings the war 'home'. I have to disagree with PJ's assesment, and anyone elses for that matter, that the LOTR films will better without SOTS.
Erm: OF shit and mayonnaise & TrubbA... by Skyway Moaters	Aug 5th, 2003 11:18:20 AM
...freakin typos... grumble grumble...
bildungsroman? by Miami Mofo	Aug 5th, 2003 11:21:29 AM
djinnj, that's a new one for me, so please define (I've already checked my 'Oxford AMERICAN Desk Dictionary and Thesaurus' and was unable to find). As for Scouring, I'm with you all the way. Unfortunately for us though, P.J., in an interview from a few months ago stated that when he first read LotR, he couldn't understand why the story kept going for another eighty pages or so after the ring was destroyed, which I found kind of sad. It's almost as if he missed the point of the entire tale! Then I asked whether Fran or Philippa "got it." Between the three of them I thought that at least one of them would. As for RotK, the running time rumour is like 3 1/2 hours (the length of the LotR:FotR SEV), so hopefully we'll see an SEV of over four -- but sadly without Scouring. Boo hoo.
bildungsroman... by Skyway Moaters	Aug 5th, 2003 11:29:15 AM
... bil
Thanks Moaters by Miami Mofo	Aug 5th, 2003 11:35:30 AM
I knew I could count on you. ***Fifty-two weeks ago today I bought my LotR:FotR theatrical DVD at Best Buy. I am therefore resolved to watch it, and not the SEV -- I just can't decide whether to do it today, or tomorrow on its one year anniversay. But watch it I will!!!!!!!!!
yep, what he said, again! by djinnj	Aug 5th, 2003 11:40:02 AM
Moaters is right again. With the added connotation that the education of the reader occurs as the education of the main character occurs. A sort of parallelism. As several characters state in the text a number of times, the real quest is Frodo's, and everything else is either an attempt to hold on while he gets the job done, or else a diversion. What I really want to know is how those who are fans of the films and haven't read any of the books will react when (*HUGE Spoiler) Frodo essentially y'know ails-fay at-way eh-thay ast-lay oment-may! ponder*
oh, forgot to post the RotK premier sweepstakes url by djinnj	Aug 5th, 2003 11:46:10 AM
For US residents, starts today at noon, Verizon is holding a sweepstakes for 2 tix to the Wellington premier, and some basic travel and hotel stuff. 18 and up to enter. http://lotr.upoc.com/
NOBODY ENTER THAT CONTEST!! by Pallando Blue	Aug 5th, 2003 01:12:12 PM
You'll decrease my odds of winning it! ;)
that did occur to me Pallando Blue by djinnj	Aug 5th, 2003 01:22:48 PM
But I figure, only diehards are still reading this tb, so why not give 'em a shot? :P
Sorry, P.B. by Miami Mofo	Aug 5th, 2003 01:32:49 PM
I had already entered thru TORn's link (but muchas gracias for the heads up, djinnj). I have also received my confirmation e-mail which said that I could enter as many times as I wish. I normally don't enter these things more than once, but in this instance I'll probably be compelled to enter it a total of (you guessed it) NINE times!!!!!!!!!
Actually, the only question remaining in my mind is... by Miami Mofo	Aug 5th, 2003 01:46:07 PM
after I win this contest, which tailender am I going to ask to join me [ain't no way that I'll ask Crazy Jaynie to go -- she's not a LotR fan, and thus wouldn't appreciate it enough]. Meanwhile BG, get that Pavlova ready! ;~)
DOH! Miami, you know someone named called "Crazy Jaynie"?! by Skyway Moaters	Aug 5th, 2003 03:02:30 PM
... spelled just like that? Is she from St. Louis? Vegan? Technophobe?
C.J. by Miami Mofo	Aug 5th, 2003 06:56:06 PM
Moaters, C.J. is one of my many Springsteen buddies. She's an adorable blonde whom Pallando met her last year in D.C. when we drove down from NYC (where CJ lives) for the second concert of his tour. Keep in mind that I've seen Bruce in concert sixty five times since 1974, including seven times last year [N.J., D.C., N.Y.C., Portland, Tacoma, Miami and Tampa]. Believe me when I say that mine and my friends passion for Bruce makes 'Tolkien geeks' seem like rank amateurs. Side benefits of the trip for the first three shows was that I got to meet elanor in NYC and Pallando in DC. As for the Crazy Jaynie moniker, Crazy Janey is a character (as is the Mission Man - me) from a song called Spirit In The Night from Bruce's first album, Greetings from Asbury Park, N.J., an album that is now thirty years old. In July, 2000, I reworked the lyrics to the song after an amazing night trying to scalp tickets in front of Madison Sq. Garden for the last concert of that tour. It's now called Spirit in the N.Y. Night, and begins: Crazy Jaynie and her Mission Man were outside the Garden with other ticketless fans... Thus I have MM initials from two sets of friends (tailenders and Bruce buds).
I know dat song Miami! by Skyway Moaters	Aug 5th, 2003 07:26:11 PM
... I'm a considerable Bruce fan myself! Saw him only once though: on the "Born to Run" tour in '77. Just about wore out "Nebraska" and "The Ghost of Tom Joad" when they were first released. And I knew it couldn't be the same girl. It was just the coincidence of the spelling of the name and the moniker "Crazy". In my case she's an old friend from high school that I had a falling out with a couple of years ago over the value of technological savvy in promoting a career in music these days. Ah me... I still miss her sometimes. We were friends for a lot of years... Ahem! But enough-o-this off topic crapola! What be we a-thinkin' Mr. Mofo?! Father Geek's liable come round here and ban both our "unwashed, basement dwelling, off topic asses! * More ROTK scoooopage please! * What we need is a good old fashioned round of "Stump the Vala". Or in this case: "Stump the Connexions Bloak". Hmmm what for a topic... Ok. Who of you out there can give us a succinct post on "Just who in the heck was this Helm Hammerhand fellow anyway"? And without a quick look-see at the appendices mind you. You know, the namesake of "Helm's Deep"? -for those of you who don't know what this goofy old knucklehead is blathering about(?)... Namarie, Trubba Not SM{;-0
How's this for succinct AND poetic? by Seepgood	Aug 5th, 2003 08:12:38 PM
There once was a Rohirrim king / Whose uppercut dealt quite a sting / In the Deep (not Dunharrow) / He froze to the marrow / While out seeking to kill DunlendING(s)
For the record by Pallando Blue	Aug 5th, 2003 08:18:39 PM
Let it be noted that the above is a limerick, and that I am NOT responsible. (Well DONE, Seepgood!)
Oh oh, I think I hear Alice gnawing her feet off again! by Miami Mofo	Aug 5th, 2003 08:24:49 PM
I too had absolutely no part in Seepgood's exquisite limerick!
The Walrus has returned, after having his foot hewed out from un by mortsleam	Aug 6th, 2003 03:48:03 AM
Hullo all. The last missive I posted 'round these parts was on July 8th. That night after work I went for my customary 5 mile jog and...BROKE MY FREAKING LEG! JOGGING! I BROKE MY FREAKING LEG FREAKING JOGGING! (Twisted my ankle, hit the sidewalk, snapped the tibia AND fibula right at the plateau) So I've been to the hospital, to the Ortho-guy, to Surgery for some lovely screws and finally to physical therapy and this is the first time I've managed to hobble over to the home PC. So...anything of note happen while I was gone? Lemme just check the AICN backlog here...Keyword "LOTR"...WHAT THE HELL?!?!? Oooh...you been some busy little tailenders! Good thing 30 days of Narcotics abuse has left me immune to the effects of Lortab (supposedly stronger than Vicodin) and brought my insomnia back full force, 'cause it looks like I got some reading to do.
It's a sad day; It's a red day; It's WEDNESDAY! by Miami Mofo	Aug 6th, 2003 05:05:26 AM
Nineteen weeks (efe) until LotR:RotK!!!!!!!!! Oh well, at least we're outta the tweens. *mort, that really sucks. Dr. Mofo prescribes watching the theatrical LotR:FotR DVD as today's is it's first anniversary! That and some Ent draught will get them bones healing faster! :~) Get well soon. *Moaters, 'Nebraska' is a MASTERPIECE!!!!!!!!!
Looks like the Connexions Bloak's done been un-stumped! by morGoth	Aug 6th, 2003 05:25:15 AM
That was great Seepgood but I really am going to send you all a bill to replace these keyboards I keep ruining what with all that tea, coffee and/or soft drink that spews out my mouth (and nose) every time I read these here Talk Backs! Great bloody fish sticks Moaters, couldn't you come up with more of a brain buster than that? OK, here's one: We see in the movie that Aragorn also wears a ring. What's the big deal about it and how is it connected to Galadriel? The obvious answer of "He stole it out of Galadriel's box of Cracker Jacks!" is simply not acceptable. ** I just wanted to mention that it's heart warming to see some very knowledgeable posters appear on this TB. Irritable, djinnj (hope I got that right) and Seepgood, you folks are delightfully steeped in Middle-earth lore. Cool!
Waves to mortsleam all the way up top... by morGoth	Aug 6th, 2003 05:32:08 AM
...DAAYYYAANNNGGG, you and Miami oughta hook up in rehab or something. Hey, how can a two ton Walrus jog five miles anyway? Busted flipper I'd believe! ** Ingold, glad you finally got to see it. Vanyar only saw it yesterday too and he's still digesting things. He thought that was Grond too until I got him to stop hyperventilating long enough to notice those were "only orcs" flinging that Newt-headed log. It's the Skink of the Underworld I tells ya!
And after y'all answer morGy's question, by Miami Mofo	Aug 6th, 2003 07:31:40 AM
I think it'll be time for a little round of Uruk-hai-ku, in which the word 'bildungsroman' must be included. [Now there's a challenge for you.]
Bloody fishsticks ain't got nuttin t' do wid it ye nasty ol' cha by Skyway Moaters	Aug 6th, 2003 09:09:00 AM
... it was an "on the spur of the moment typo" kind of thing - couldn't think of anything better at the time. And I was looking for something a little "less succint" than seepgood's (admittedly excellent) hilarious limmerick. *** The ring of Barahir: Given to Barahir by Finrod as thanks for saving his life. Beren inherited it when Barahir was slain. So then I guess it went to Luthien when Beren was killed(?) Now Galadriel was Finrod's sister, and Luthien was Elrond's grandmother, and Galadriel was Arwens grandmother on her mother's side, and Aragorn is decended from the line of Elros, Elrond's brother. So either way you look at it, the ring was a family heirloom on both sides of Arwen and Aragorn's family trees. What I can't remember is whether it came to Aragorn directly from Galadriel, which would seen to mean that Luthien returned it to Finrod's family at some point, or did it come to Arwen from Elrond via Luthien/Elwing+Dior/Luthien, and SHE [Arwen] gave it to Aragorn as a symbol of their betrothal, or their common heritage or what? Or did Aragorn get it directly from Elrond, and he betroths Arwen with it? Somebody HELP!
I can't lay my hands on a copy of the Book at the moment, by Conan_the_Humble	Aug 6th, 2003 09:21:44 AM
But I recall Aragorn mentioning it was a 'family' heirloom and had been passed among his ancestors for quite a while. The Ring of Barahir had been possessed by (someone) in Arnor. When the Witchking's forces finally over-ran the remnants of Arnor they were forced to winter at Fornost or someplace like that. The ring of Barahir was given to the folk who provided harbour for the remnants of the folk of Arnor for use as a pledge at some further time. I wish I can be more accurate, but I'm certain the wise amongst the TE will clear up the specifics. Cheers.
If it's any consolation, mort by Pallando Blue	Aug 6th, 2003 11:32:23 AM
One of my best friends completely trumped your klutzy misfortune, years ago (actually, before most of us knew her). She broke both of her ankles stepping off of a curb. Let me repeat that. She broke both of her ankles, stepping off of a curb. Turned to talk to someone as she stepped, foot hit slightly off-balance, twisted underneath her, her body kept going, turned the downed ankle further than it shoulda, reflexes overcompensated on the way down, twisted about in mid-air, bodyweight somehow landed on the other ankle at yet another bad angle. True story, and she regrets she ever told us. Because as horrible as it must have been for her, she knows how absolutely hilarious it is that that she (sigh it's just priceless) broke both of her ankles, stepping of a curb. :) *** Speaking of the Ring of Barahir (and I think Conan's on the right track, though me I'd need the Sil handy to jump in at all), looks like there'll be a sly nod to its significance in the T2T EE. Remember the T2T preview from the last FOTR reel? Go check it onut again on the SEV easter egg. When Lee is at his table and says "So, Gandalf Greyhame thinks he has found the lost King of Men..." Now, head over to that Quintessential site, with all the imaes. Turns out, when Saruman is saying that line he is already doing a little research on the matter! In that scene there's apparently an over-the-shoulder shot of what he's reading, and on the page the book's turned to is a very large illustration OF the Ring of Barahir! Very clear, no mistaking it. I wonder how many will catch that it's the same ring we've seen in close-up once or twice on Aragorn's hand? Anyway, haven't really heard if this is back in the SEV or not, all the spies have been taking FX shots. But fingers crossed.
Estel = Hope by Miami Mofo	Aug 6th, 2003 11:44:32 AM
"But when Estel was only twenty years of age, it chanced that he returned to Rivendell after the great deeds in the company of the sons of Elrond; and Elrond looked at him and was pleased, for he saw he was fair and noble and was early come to manhood, though he would yet become greater in body and in mind. That day therefore Elrond called him by his true name, and he told him who he was and whose son; and he delivered to him heirlooms of his house. 'Here is the ring of Barahir,' he said, 'the token of our kinship from afar; and here also are the shards of Narsil. With these you may yet do great deeds; for I fortell that the span of your life shall be greater than the measure of Men, unless evil befalls you or you fail the test. But the test will be hard and long. The Scepter of Annuminas I withhold, for you have yet to earn it.'" ***Also, Barahir was Faramir's grandson (Eowyn's too, I estel), thus taking it's rightful place in the 'Choosing A Great Name For Your Gondorian Baby' book. ;~)
Premiere drippings! by Pallando Blue	Aug 6th, 2003 11:55:29 AM
The little blip TORN has up from premiere mag, it's short yes indeed it's got it all. Hyperbole from a principle? Check! Viggo: "There's a lot more charcter detail. I think it's going to be the best one: the most dense and subtle and layered of the three." Movie length rumors? Check! "It will also probably be the longest, at a rumored three and a half hours." Fidelity to and appreciation of the novel? Check! Wood: "You'd be surprised how often I hear, 'So what's going to happen in the next one?' Well, read the book, man. Read it--it's all there. It's a good book." Probable spoilers? Check! At least as far as pace, not content: "Don't expect a knockout opener like The Two Towers--King will roll out slowly... until Wood and Astin tussle with the CG she-spider Shelob." [Okay, how would they know THAT?!? Hmm? We wonders aye indeed we wonders we do...] How about a gratuitous dollop of The Hobbit rumor-mongering? Check!
Said I couldn't remember, but that part of it should have been a by Skyway Moaters	Aug 6th, 2003 12:12:47 PM
... so Elrond gives it to him but how did it come to Elrond, AND morG's question is: what's it got to do with Galadriel? (I'm assuming that he means other than the fact that she and Finrod are both the offspring of Finarfin). That the ring was a symbol of the friendship between the houses of Finwe and Beor? (if you follow the lines of the fathers, because actually all the Elvish houses: Finwe, Olwe, and Elwe, and the house of Beor are related either by marriage or blood. Olwe and Elwe were brothers, Luthien married Beren, Idril married Tuor, and Earendil married Elwing - daughter of Nimloth and Dior - son of Beren and Luthien! I tell ya them folks was worse than them West Verginny hillbillys you hear all the jokes about!
Why, Mr. Baggins, I had no idea by Pallando Blue	Aug 6th, 2003 12:21:46 PM
Now here's a bit of happenstance. The entry directly above "bildungsroman" in me '84 Webster's Ninth New Collegiate just happens to be: (1)bilbo n [perh. fr. Bilboa Spain] (1551): a long bar of iron with sliding shackles used to confine the feet of prisoners esp. on shipboard. (2)bilbo or bilboa n [Bilboa, Bilbao, Spain] (1584): SWORD. *** And Miami, I accept your challenge! Though I'm afraid Seepgood done fired up the limerick blood in me, haiku'll have to wait for another day... I just can't pass up the idea of having to rhyme "bildungsroman"...
Mortsleam! SPOILER! by AliceInWonderlnd	Aug 6th, 2003 01:15:56 PM
Well shit! I broke my arm once whilst being pulled on my skateboard by my dog across the concrete forecourt of a gas station. It was not cool, nor nice. Though I suppose in hindsight it was quite funny, or would have been had it happened to some other daft brat. And I'm sorry, but if you guys are bustin' out the rhymes, then I am going to throw my feet at you. Because I'm a killjoy and like that. Bildungsroman - you know I actually knew what that meant? No, don't look at me like that, I honestly did. In any case, it's gone nice and quiet in here - I suspect that's because the Jedi Council TB is doubtless operating like a Troll Magnet for the entire site. Frankly, I find the temptation to post rudely there almost overwhelming - I'm like the chick out of T3 next to the particle accelerator when I so much as glance at it, which makes me wonder about myself, in a chin-strokingly pondersome sort of way. Anyhoo, yeah, the Scouring. I have trouble with a Scouringless ROTK, but I've had a little while to get used to it. My main worry about the end is not so much the absence of Scouring, but is Frodo, like the Rankin Bass abomination, just going to go straight to the Havens? Cos that's not gonna work, in my not terribly humble opinion. You have to at least see the little guy trying to cope in the Shire, before he throws in the towel. Otherwise, it takes away from the immense sadness of it all. Well, that's what I reckon, at any rate. Also, I played the FOTR Playstation 2 game, and while the ending is so fucking non-Tolkien and fantastical that I was frankly gobsmacked, the bits in the Shire and the Old Forest and Barrow Downs were really quite evocative, and nice to see, seeing as how they got glossed in the movie. Someone had clearly been paying attention. Must say, Tom Bombadil was still pretty embarassing.
Go for it, Pallando!!!!!!!!! by Miami Mofo	Aug 6th, 2003 01:26:25 PM
Yes, the hai-ku's can wait for another day. As for me, out of defference to Alice and her poor feet, I'll have to pass. Besides, I'll never be able to top my ultra-bawdy "Oh That Pesky Blade of The Westernesse" limerick where I proved once and for all which 'magic dingus' actually brought down the Witch-King. I'll never forget your reaction to that one, where the normally verbose Blue Wizard was stunned to a simple, "Oh my." And though I'm not writing any new ones, I will repost that one upon request.
Actually Alice, the only thing that interested me on those other by Miami Mofo	Aug 6th, 2003 03:01:14 PM
was El_Barstardo's apology to morGoth. Not that I think he really meant it though. Just the prick's way of attacking everyone else.
Good grief that was tough by Pallando Blue	Aug 6th, 2003 04:42:56 PM
[Ahem. Mi mi mi mi mi-i-i-i-i!] Barliman, ever the showman, * Claimed, "The Red Book is MY bildungsroman! * 'Psychologically,' no... * Nor did I 'morally' grow... * But I do have this well-hung abdomen."
Limeriks by Xyzan	Aug 6th, 2003 05:09:06 PM
Miami, i request! But i think i'm gonna pass on creating my own. *** One of my friends was talking about how an extra frame per minute is added to the dvd and video versions of films, making the running time different from theatrical run times. Could this be the reason for the added time? Or are we going to be able to gloat about getting more material? hmmmm. interesting thought.
Seconding Alice by daughter of time	Aug 6th, 2003 05:13:27 PM
I very much fear that PJ will just march Frodo straight to the Grey Havens from the coronation, since if he didn't get the importance of the Scouring, perhaps he also didn't get the importance of Frodo's slow realization that he already has lost the Shire so that others may keep it. I love Frodo's sticking around just long enough to make sure Sam and Rosie are well settled in, and seeing the new growth. (But dammit, what happened to Sam's box?) The thing that has always been puzzling is that early shot of Sam running home to a toddling Elanor... unless that has already been abandoned. And isn't it rather odd that Bilbo entirely disappears in TTT - even, apparently, in the Extended Version? It would be nice, since they were flashing back there anyway, to have seen a few moments of him musing anxiously about how Frodo is faring. He can't possibly just be sitting there in the dark with the lights out.
Nah, you heard Merry in that clip by Pallando Blue	Aug 6th, 2003 06:32:44 PM
They WILL see the Shire again! I'm not too worried about them shooting straight off to the Grey Havens. One, there's the toddling elanor shot, like you say, d.o.t. But also there were the hints some time ago that Cate is going to narrate an epilogue of sorts over the end, mirroring FOTR's prologue. So, montage. I can see the ending going this way, in other words, MASSIVE SPECULATION! (And not a little bit of wishful thinking!) Here 'tis: Big Ol' Climaxes, Sam awakes, Frodo's already up, mirrors scene in Rivendell. We all weep as all his wishes come true. With some exposition from Gandalf, transition to Coronation ceremony, goes down like book (Frodo handing crown to Gandalf, etc.), but with Galadriel entering in V.O.--let the montage begin. Then come many marriages (which we also know were filmed), and many partings, each character's fate given a sentence or two from G, and then the Hobbits' return to the Shire--which has been successfully protected, and as blissfully ignorant as it used to be. Perhaps even a comedic snort at the returning hobbits' fine livery. M & P begin their political careers, looking very adult (but still laughing and happy), Sam marries Rosie, and Frodo--looking paler and weaker, tho happy, with every shot--moves them into Bag End. Years pass, Elanor (and 2 or 3 more, why not?) are born. Then--surprisingly to the unsuspecting audience--Galadriel ends her V.O. describing Frodo's continued poor state, and that he knew he had one last journey to make. Actors' dialogue re-enters, and Frodo asks Rosie if he can borrow Sam for a short trip, then them walking down the road with packs. Can get all that in under ten minutes of screen time, without feeling rushed. Get through all the rest in ten more. Sam asks where they're going, doesn't receive an answer, when he sees the approaching Grey Havens it begins to dawn on him. Along with Galadriel, Elrond, Gandalf, and an EXTREMELY aged Bilbo, there is Aragorn and Arwen, to formally give up her seat (and send off her father and grandma). Merry and Pippin arrive on ponies at the last minute. Man are we gonna be bawling hard now. Sam's protests, Frodo's beautiful little speech, then the boarding of the Ship. Wordless farewell between Elrond, Arwen and Aragorn. Shore's score is just ripping us apart at this point, as the Ship sails away, and Sam, Merry, and Pippin watch it disappear as the sun sets, and night falls, and they finally turn to go home. Score fades, disappears as we come back to daylight and Sam is walking up to Bag End. Elanor leaps into his arms, he carries her inside, flops down into a chair with her in his lap. Rosie enters smiling, sees he's alone. Close on Sam's face looking up at her, sad but contented. "Well, I'm back." The score returns, fade to black, begin credits. *** There you go, a fifteen- to twenty-minute denouement from Cracks to Credits. I betcha they could pull that off, without losing anyone. 4 months and 10 days to find out sigh. And of course, there's no telling what changes the ROTK SEV will bring....
I like your version, Pallando by daughter of time	Aug 6th, 2003 08:54:22 PM
And isn't it maddening that we won't know for 15 more months what is truly, finally included? Aragh! But don't forget, Galadriel told Aragorn she wouldn't be seeing him again, which throws a bit of a wrench into your version. In any case, I think it would unbalance the Grey Havens to have Aragorn and Arwen there (this is about the hobbits, or had better be), so my bet is that Frodo gets the jewel and the place in the boat while they are still in Gondor.
OK Xyzan, you asked for it! by Miami Mofo	Aug 6th, 2003 08:56:40 PM
If you're "unread" this might come as a shock, / But ole Dernhelm was lacking a cock. / For it's of Eowyn we sing, / And how she slew the Witck-King. / Thrusting - with her strap-on Meriadoc.
Damn typos!!!!!!!!! by Miami Mofo	Aug 6th, 2003 08:59:59 PM
Needles to say, that was supposed to be Witch-King.
It must be past my bedtime by Miami Mofo	Aug 6th, 2003 09:01:50 PM
Needles????????? (add an 's' por favor)
Holy Cow, I just saw a Lord of the Rings commercial on TV by Miami Mofo	Aug 6th, 2003 09:54:13 PM
Actually it was a Verizon commercial for their LotR:RotK trip to New Zealand contest. It was pretty cool though.
Hey Miami... by BG	Aug 7th, 2003 12:55:44 AM
...needles to say, you must Tulpas then ;-)
Oh well, I guess I'm not (news)worthy by Miami Mofo	Aug 7th, 2003 08:10:12 AM
Immediately after posting that Verizon LotR commercial info last night, I e-mailed Xoanon regarding same. Although I wasn't expecting to see my name up there in lights, I did expect to see other contributors reporting that they saw it also. So far zilch, nothing, nada. "But your Honor, I swear I wasn't hallucinating despite the Darvocets." So now I'll just take my ball and shuffle off to traction. *Moaters, I'm thinking of going to Bruce's concert at FedEx Field in D.C. on Saturday, Sept. 13th. Let me know if you're interested. *BG, thanks for the laugh.
MOFO: Bruce? DC? Sept 13? Sign me up! by Skyway Moaters	Aug 7th, 2003 09:43:54 AM
... I ain't triskaidekaphobic!
Ghan Buri Ghan Ingold? What arrrrre yew talkin' 'bout?! by Skyway Moaters	Aug 7th, 2003 09:59:45 AM

Someone said "tulpas", and the TB hosed... by AliceInWonderlnd	Aug 7th, 2003 10:26:54 AM
Coincidence? I think not.
Just for the record... by mortsleam	Aug 7th, 2003 11:57:09 AM
Alright, after a few Physical Therapy and Short-Term Disability-related postponements, I finally read all relevant (and a few irrelevant) posts and can add my comments. * Frist: It's nice to see elflicker and sPud(.) managed to find their way off the short bus and onto the boards once again, for truly the place just isn't the same without 'em, but I have to say some trolls are complete and utter...magic dinguses. * Sekund: Stump the Vala - I knew both Xyxan and morGy's questions. Really. I re-read the Sil a few weeks ago, and am currently lightly flipping through the Unfinished in between repeat showings of FOTR (both the Theatrical and Special editions.) What else am I supposed to do during my convalescence? I have not, however, re-read LOTR proper, as I want to go into ROTK "fresh" as it were. Like a rosy cheeked Rohan maiden hiding under armour pretending to be a guy or somethin. Okay, so a constant stream of narcotics has created a drug fueled haze which gives me delusions of transgenderism, but darnit, I should still deserve some credit for knowing the answers, even if I wasn't here to answer 'em. * Thoid: I agree wholeheartedly with nearly everything Pallando had to say, particularly his rampant wild speculation about both Sauron's "appearance" and Frodo's trip to the Grey Havens. Except that DoT is correct about Aragorn and Arwen saying their goodbyes in Gondor. Dufy has, as ever, completely missed the boat. Arwen is NOT the emotional underpinning of the movies, merely the romantic subplot. While she does perfectly symbolize the true nature of what is lost with the passing of the Thoid Age, Frodo is in fact the center of the whole dang movie and the ending has to focus on him, The Bastard's "Laws of Film" notwithstanding. * Foordth: Those were some messed up limericks right there, people. Strap-On Meriadoc indeed, Miami. You make this poor rosy-cheeked cross-dressing Rohan Maiden Walrus Boy blush. Or maybe it's the Lortab (which is apparently more powerful than Darvocet, btw.) Funny stuff and kudos to all. I shan't even try to compete. *** Finally: Thanks everyone for your kind words and tales of woe. It's nice to know everyone has their own stupid tale of accidental breakage. It would be really nice if this was the frist time something like this happened to me. But it's not. 'Cause I broke my arm (and fractured my skull and darn near chipped a tusk) way back in my early teens when I fell off a viaduct whilst goofing around on train tracks in the middle of the night and subsequently had to walk a quarter mile on a partially broken pelvis to, of all things, a MacDonald's (which was about to close, so I had to actually walk through the drive through to get help!) You'd think I woulda learned something from that, but nooooo...(;{=
you are all just too funny for safety by djinnj	Aug 7th, 2003 12:29:44 PM
And poetry, too! Y'all rival Bilbo! // Oh, Ingold, I just threw lizards into the baddies mix because it needed something to fill out how the line scans. Although, I sort of think of the Nazguls' flying steeds as lizardlike. // Ages ago, a still circulated of someone working at Bilbo's writing desk who looked suspiciously like Frodo. I think we're going to get his finishing of the Red Book, and Sam's marriage and all that. // God help me, I'd be happy to watch hours of B-roll right now....
Limerickin'!, skitedy doo bop sha wop... by Skyway Moaters	Aug 7th, 2003 02:06:50 PM
Whislt reading a novel bildungsroman, filled lungs I had from the grow man, The munchies attacked, my pantry was sacked, So I went for grilled tounge from the dough stand. *** So, there I was at the newsstand, reading reviews of a novel bildrungsroman, When a headline so wry, caught my eye, It said: Sunny day killed young snowman. Or some such rot... back to the writers garret for the connexions bloak...
Gawd, what a bunch of sorry-assed, basement dwelling D&D playin by morGoth	Aug 7th, 2003 05:47:42 PM

Dem bones, dem bones dem dry bones! by Xyzan	Aug 7th, 2003 06:51:43 PM
Sorry to hear about your injuries walrus, but at least its giving you time to reread things. Pallando, i'd love it if the film ended like that, but i want at least the backdrop for when the boat sails off to be a rainy sheet that seems to lift. That was the best thing about that darn bombadil chapter. (awww, couldn't resist digging at the guy in the hat).
Aw, shucks folks... by Seepgood	Aug 7th, 2003 09:43:41 PM
It was just a little limerick and all. You're too kind. However, I am now slightly nervously wondering what I have unleashed - a bit like dropping a pebble (or skeleton, chain, bucket etc) down the wrong well. But what's done is done, and all I can do now is offer some cautionary literary criticism - There once was a Hobbiton bard / Whose poems were frequently marred / By rhymes like "Arvernien" / In conjunction with "journey in" / Come on Bilbo, it isn't that hard!
Sheets of Rain by daughter of time	Aug 8th, 2003 12:12:39 AM
Xyzan, as long as it's quiet, I just thought I'd jump in and add my love to those images of sheets of rain in both the Bombadil chapter and the Grey Havens.
Well, I posted but I don't know what's happened? by Conan_the_Humble	Aug 8th, 2003 06:42:01 AM
Can it be? (I'd better) not keep complaining, I'll get into trubba. Cheers.
Sheets of rain... by AliceInWonderlnd	Aug 8th, 2003 07:35:41 AM
Absolutely, lifting like veils... that would look absolutely beautiful. God, I'm starting to get quite excited now about the whole ROTK thing. Mortsleam - love your drugs. They are your friends.
Sheets of Rain and the unspoken invitation by Miami Mofo	Aug 8th, 2003 08:49:42 AM
I also liked the song from several years ago. Can't remember the name of the gal who sung it at the moment. Maybe because of 'my friends' as Alice has named them. *"Needles to say" the invite that Moaters accepted for 9/13 is open to others in the area who want to join. Lookin' forward to meeting you S.M. *Still nothing at TORn regarding the Verizon commercial. I wonder if Xo believed me? Anyway I'll describe it to you as soon as I get back from today's round of traction. Later.
Oh and mortsleam, by Miami Mofo	Aug 8th, 2003 09:08:05 AM
I sincerely hope that you are faced with daunting task of writing 'Thank You' notes for all the Get Well gifts (and cards) you've received. Feel free to use this one, which I composed for my Mother after she broke her arm (she was unable to write, so we had 'em printed) while stepping off a curb in a most beautiful Northern Italian city thirty years ago (you'll just have to change the location): When I fell in Milano I had no class. If I were smarter I would have fallen on my a__. But in my gloom when I had pain, Your thoughts were sunshine in the rain. So accept my thanks, you were so very sweet. Do you think my bones will ever meet?
Alrighty then Miami... by Skyway Moaters	Aug 8th, 2003 10:05:20 AM
... Your original message said "I'm THINKING about going to see "The Boss" on Sept 13". Hadn't we better be in the process of aquiring tickets as soon as possible? Shoot me an e-mail Mofo so we can work out the details. Don't git 'over-tradctioned' or nuthin like that. You still going to be in a brace by "Bruce Time"? 'Cause that would freak me out; meeting you for the first time and all , I am NOT poking fun, your injury is nothing to larf about, but you know ... ...
Are there any bonus points available? by Seepgood	Aug 8th, 2003 10:18:27 AM
For observing that the Ring of Barahir was emphatically not a "magic dingus", since Arvedui specifically told the chief of the Lossoth so?
C'mon up for Verizon (fourth attempt) by Miami Mofo	Aug 8th, 2003 03:55:03 PM
Don't worry, that's not from the Verizon TV commercial -- it's from backstreets.com's (a Springsteen fansite, much like TORn) April Fools Day headline where they "reported" that Bruce agreed to let Verizon use 'The Rising' as part of an advertising campaign. As If. *OK now, the commercial consisted of a really cool 'smashing down the doors with a battering ram (not Grond)' scene with a voiceover that said that it was not necessary to go to such lengths to crash the World Premiere of 'The Return of the King' next December in Wellington, New Zealand - all you had to do was enter Verizon's world premiere contest. The voiceover ended by stating that you could also enter to win a free LotR:T2T DVD. *A fun commercial to watch. Overcomes the horror of those Burger Kings Goblet commercials.
That by morGoth	Aug 8th, 2003 05:24:55 PM
Thus spake Arvedui to the chief of the Iceman of Lossoth,
Friday the 15th, morGy? by Miami Mofo	Aug 8th, 2003 06:57:47 PM
Are you sure we're talking the same month? Bruce's concert is Saturday, September 13th, which makes the 15th a Monday and Friday either the 12th or 19th. On the other hand, a week from today is Friday, August 15th. Have fun if that's when your concert is. ***By Saturday Sept. 13th, Moaters and I will have lots to talk about regarding the T2T DVD. [Had to get on topic.]
Doop! by morGoth	Aug 8th, 2003 10:30:54 PM
Miami, don't hire me as a proof reader! In my best Emily Latella, "Never mind."
Shelob's Cave! The Paths of the Dead! by Miami Mofo	Aug 11th, 2003 06:14:12 AM
Just more that we can expect from the ten minute RotK preview on the T2T DVD according to that new report over at TORn. Sadly though, no lizards. Quince dias mas! ***Now is time for Uruk-hai-ku?
Has anyone else notice that our lad Samwise... by Skyway Moaters	Aug 11th, 2003 10:27:03 AM
...er, Sean Astin, has REALLY been making the rounds to all these conventions, and that his enthusiasm for ROTK and the LOTR films in general has been unflaggingly enthusiastic? He's proven to be quite the engergetic fellow eh?
One more limerick by Shards of Narsil	Aug 11th, 2003 10:30:16 AM
before we begin the Urukhaiku. I was so very inspired by the tributes to bildungsroman that I must submit one of my own.***If your wife is a difficult woman///you should read her a fine bildungsroman///To uplift and thrill her///forget Arthur Miller///Give her Frodo instead of Biff Loman.**(Ducks flying debris and exits stage left.)
uruk-haiku by djinnj	Aug 11th, 2003 12:03:52 PM
I may regret this, but: Hungry Uruk-hai//Consider tasty hobbits//Eat Rohirric swords.
ok, another one by djinnj	Aug 11th, 2003 12:11:33 PM
Fighting Uruk-hai// Flee the shadows of the Huorns//Unsuccessfully.
Ack! First limericks, now Uruk-hiaku! by morGoth	Aug 11th, 2003 12:26:25 PM
I love it! Keep 'em coming folks {[:^) ** Hey Miami, from that bit over at TORN you mention, what about the part where Pippin finds out Sauron thinks HE has the Ring? If this proves to be true, it kinda blows the theory behind Frodo displaying the Ring to that Nazgul slam outta the water. Consequently, it makes that scene (though beautifully rendered) STILL incomprehensible. After all, Sauron would want to step up his attack on Minas Tirith especially if he knew Gandalf had delivered both Pippin and his Precious to Denethor. So, why would PJ want to invent that bit with Frodo and the Nazgul at Osgiliath if he already had a "fiction" for that same thing in the works? OK, I'm waiting for the rationalizing to begin anew!
Thank you for the thank you note, Miami by mortsleam	Aug 11th, 2003 01:54:54 PM
Physical Therapy has nothing on the strain put upon me by following proper ettiquette! I'll probably sprain my hand writing all those thank you cards! It's funny, with all the TV watchin' I've been doing, I have yet to see any ROTK-related commercials. Which is actually a good thing, because my friends the drugs have sapped me of any ability to control my emotions, an' I want ROTK NOW! NOW!! NOW!!! *ahem* sorry about that...I'm pretty disappointed about the delay in the release of TTT. I'll (unfortunately?) be back to work next week, so I won't be able to fully enjoy days and days of uninterrupted TTT DVD perusal. But hopefully Jackson's commentaries in the SEV will shed some light on his reasoning behind the Warg Cliff Dive, the Nazgul Ring Presentation and, of course, Un!Faramir. I tellya, Phillipa better sound truly contrite and sorrowful about that switcheroo, or at least have a good reason for the changes. *** Ghrishnak to Ugluk * Meat's back on the menu, boys * Vegan Orcs? Nada.
Walrus lies a-bed Bones a-mending, still they crack. Gimme by morGoth	Aug 11th, 2003 03:40:56 PM

Oathbreakers!!!!!!!!! by Miami Mofo	Aug 11th, 2003 04:16:11 PM
I mean Rulebreakers!!!!!!!!! Have ye forgotten that the challenge of this round of Uruk-hai-kus was to use our new favorite, or favourite, as the case may be, word, 'Bildungsroman'? I guess you have, judging by the entries. Fortunately however they are all quite good, so noone will be executed this time around. ***morGy, here's my take on Sauron's mistake: The Nazgul will report that the Ring was in Osgiliath, in the possession of a Hobbit heading TOWARDS Minas Tirith (as Faramir originally intended). Sauron will see a Hobbit in the Palantir, but will be unsure of his identity and location. Gandalf and a Hobbit's entry into Minas Tirith will be reported back to Sauron, probably by another flying Ringwraith. Thus Sauron mistakes Pippin for Frodo. I believe that this logic will hold up under the microscope.
HOSED!!!!!!!!! [morGy: Ianswered your question in my 'Oathbreake by Miami Mofo	Aug 11th, 2003 04:20:50 PM
I said, nt!!! :~)
OK, here's a timely one based on today's news: by Miami Mofo	Aug 11th, 2003 04:53:45 PM
An archeologist's tools / bil-(un)dungs-roman / Caligula's mad past
one more: A blade of lightening// gleams in droplets on armour; by djinnj	Aug 11th, 2003 05:23:29 PM
I really need to get some work done.... But all I can think about is haiku! Much easier than limericks....
oops! Forgot about that bit! how about this? by djinnj	Aug 11th, 2003 05:37:03 PM
'Neath the hero trope// Sleeps the bildungsroman of// Frodo's mythic choice. //// This, of course, refers to the films....
another one, damn this posting at the top is confusing.... by djinnj	Aug 11th, 2003 05:42:29 PM
The bildungsroman// With orcs for a life lesson// Provokes many tears.
Mention archaeology, haikus and obscure words and I shall rise a by Runelord	Aug 11th, 2003 07:48:54 PM
Good even, folks. Finding myself with a rare day in town with lots of waiting time - and a boost from the inspiring poets hereabouts - I have tried my hand at Miami's challenge. Sorry, the Uruk-haiku's didn't bite and I've never done limerics before so here ya go: ****** Miami Mofo, this was no mean feat, * And without even one little cheat, * My brain's exploded, * Here, fully loaded, * Bildungsroman poems I'll not repeat. ****** A quick hello before I begin; * 'Gold, Skyway, morG, Shards, even a djinn, * Bildungsroman fans, * Though I see no Conans, * And the rest of you didn't fit in. ****** There once was a wizard cyan, * Wrote poems though no bildungsroman. * I speak of Pallando * And his title so grand though * Alice wishs he'd never began. ****** Tolkien's Lord of the Bildungsroman, * With his tale of a Dwarf and a bowman, * Four Hobbits that grew, * Plus a good Man or two, * And Gandalf's no totterin' captain. ****** Gollum didn't keep up on his bran, * Got himself kicked out of his clan, * Bad luck's not ended, * Was apprehended, * And drug into a bildungsroman. ****** I figure 5 is enough. Sorry, diva.
I've officially gone fanATIC, as if I wasn't before. by djinnj	Aug 12th, 2003 02:08:17 AM
I've just named my new cat Bergil. I love all the poetry, and a healthy snarf is good for the nose I'm sure. Now if only my Ringwraith would come (backordered, dagnabit!), and the 26th would come (last day of work, first day of TTT dvd, hmm... I may just spend my last day of work in a screening room for 6 hours, watching FotR and TTT). Now, everyone: Poems, more poems!
* A Bildungsroman * Bitter Hosed TB Lessons * Where will this po by mortsleam	Aug 12th, 2003 06:43:18 AM
Sorry about that, I thought "the Oath of Bildungsroman" applied only to limericks, and mistook Uruk-Haikus to be, literally, Haikus about Uruks. Hey, was there ever any mention about who won the Broadcast Network TV rights to LOTR? And whether or not they would broadcast the whole shebang as a 9 part miniseries? I shudder to think how they would butcher it up for television (for example, a commercial break approximately every seve minutes, which would be directly after Galadriel's Prologue, and again right after Bilbo says "This will be a night to remember.") But at least it would give us something to talk about until 2005...
No "Uruk" to it, but it DO use the 'bild word'... by Skyway Moaters	Aug 12th, 2003 08:26:19 AM
Go read a bildungsroman/pay close attention/and it could well change your life ... Yeah yeah I know back to the writer's garret... grumble grumble
Erm that would be "Dork-Haiku" IE: 7/5/7 vice 5/7/5 by Skyway Moaters	Aug 12th, 2003 09:32:55 AM
Moaters, Moaters, Moaters... What WAS you a thinkin?... Tsk...
Pondering Pippin by AliceInWonderlnd	Aug 12th, 2003 10:14:03 AM
Well, I read that thing at TORN, and it's only the characters explicitly stating what was implied in the book. Regarding the whole Frodo vs. the Nazgul (which don't you think would be a great name for a band?) thing, I can't get too worked about that. I've never interpreted that scene as Frodo presenting the Ring to the Nazgul anyway. As the Nazgul apparently don't see as we do, they may not see the Ring till someone puts it on, which would explain why the Ring itself is always psychically jonesing to be worn. They sort of get more of a feeling. After all, if Frodo can sneak it past the Witch-King at Morgul Vale and he can be disturbed enough to report it, then one wonders exactly how in tune with it they really are. But that's a problem the books always had as well as the movies, in all fairness.
So, Ahem!... by Skyway Moaters	Aug 12th, 2003 10:14:25 AM
... pay close attention/when reading bildungsroman/lest it change your life... "Wait, withdraw that, reverse it"...
SUPER HOSOLA! by Skyway Moaters	Aug 12th, 2003 10:16:19 AM

Battle of the Bands ... aka Super Hosola indeed!!!!!!!!! by Miami Mofo	Aug 12th, 2003 11:20:48 AM
I think I've found 'em all. *Alice, yes Frodo v. Nazgul is a cool name, but I still prefer the name suggested a year ago while I was in Idaho following Bruce's Portland and Tacoma shows, when my musical soulmate from Levelland, who crushed Pallando by winning one billion bonus points and whose AICN handle is not coincidentally the same, wrote, "Wouldn't Shards of Narsil make a great name for a band?" I wholeheartedly agreed!!! Runelord, I kinda thought my mention of archaeology would get you to post. Great job on the lims. Ditto on the hai-ku's. It's Tuesday! Two short weeks [EFE] until the LotR:T2T DVD!!!!!!!!! **?Hosolosa, donde esta este postolosa?
Ok time for a little digression... by Skyway Moaters	Aug 12th, 2003 11:43:37 AM
...if you thought my limmericks sucked (I did), well consider that I was trying to rhyme the WHOLE word 'bildungsroman' as in: "killedyoungsnowman" or "kildyungsnoman", if you will. Admittedly, nearly all the others were better limmericks than the 2 I proffered. So... I'd like to re-issue the challenge with the requirement that you rhyme the whole word - "bildungdroman" not just the last syllable. I know Pallando and others are going to absolutely kick my arse!
Dang, Skyway by Shards of Narsil	Aug 12th, 2003 02:20:58 PM
you're such a hardass! At least you're not requiring that we rhyme a SINGLE word with Bildungsroman. Don't know if such a word exists. Does it? Can anybody think of one?*Hey Runelord, how ya doin? Dig those crazy verses.*Somewhat on topic, I watched PJ's "The Frighteners" the other night. The Grim Reaper was definitely a precursor to the Ringwraiths, stylewise. Oh, and I saw "Seabiscuit" and didn't even cry 'cause I'm saving all my movie tears. I have a feeling I'm going to be needing them in December when ROTK plays my emotions like a meth-crazed chimp with an electric glockenspiel.
Grey Fields and harsh battle * Trolls block the whiteshirted vie by Xyzan	Aug 12th, 2003 04:39:32 PM
Right, now follows my laboured attempt at a limerik. But comeon, how many words are you gona find that rhyme with Bildungsroman? A whole word doesn't exist, i'm sure (partly) of it. Ah well, here goes. There was a young hobbit near Bucklan' * who built a lil' dun snowman * when asked for a ring * to finish the thing * replied so this is bildungsroman! *** okay, i'm sorry for my butchery of language there, but it works, as long as you don't study it too long. Alas for these hosed days.
Good memory, Miami by Shards of Narsil	Aug 12th, 2003 04:54:00 PM
When I read Alice's post about Frodo vs.the Nazgul I got deja all over my vu, Miami. I remember that post; I think it was my first ever. At least under this nom de AICN. Guess who was next to me picking out bing cherries at Central Market yesterday. Well it was that old Flatlander himself, Joe Ely! I was cool, though. Just kinda winked and said "Yumm", referring to the cherries of course.
Rhyme bildungsroman? Piece of mead-flavoured cake! by Seepgood	Aug 12th, 2003 05:40:47 PM
Hrothgar was a brave Scylding no man / Neither swordsman nor dart-wielding bowman / Could dismay, till a beast / Despoiled the Danes' feast / As we read in an old bildungsroman.
elanor gets the scoop again! by JD1866	Aug 12th, 2003 10:49:15 PM
She managed to buy the TTT dvd early and has posted an article at TORN and reviews the RotK trailer. Lucky hobbit lass!
Elanor... by AliceInWonderlnd	Aug 13th, 2003 05:58:07 AM
Where the hell has she been lately? I meant to post about this a couple of days ago but one thing and another drove it out of my mind... This is quite the lengthy absence for her. The article seems to imply she sent the review to Harry too.
It's Wednesday! by Miami Mofo	Aug 13th, 2003 06:13:18 AM
Eighteen weeks (efe) until LotR:RotK!!!!!!!!! [Five until the 'special guest' makes his/her first visit.]
Sam's little girl be da sooper scoooper agin! by Skyway Moaters	Aug 13th, 2003 07:58:40 AM
... Tailenders! Get thee over to TORN post haste and read the Hobitt lass's review: Drool warning.
Nice work Elanor, by Conan_the_Humble	Aug 13th, 2003 08:31:12 AM
wherever you are. Seems Harry really doesn't want to piss New Line off and actually post some NEWS about LOTR. Mayhaps he has some goodies from New Line coming in the near future eh precious?Don't worry Runelord, I've been around, just lying low at the moment, I'm still steaming over that downunder 'cousin' of mine, he of the dubious parentage... (I'm not really folks, I just can't think of anything witty or clever to say at the moment...) Cheers.
Hello you rhymin' bildungsromans! by elanor	Aug 13th, 2003 08:46:09 AM
Thought I would make a splashy return, even though I thought Harry would post before TORN. I guess I will give TORN the next scoop! Had a family crisis out of town but all is peaceful now. So, as if in receipt of some divine poetic justice, upon my return I was able to pick up a soul-soothing DVD. P.S. Miami, if you have not yet checked your e-mail I hope you will today. One thing I left out was that since...whoa - oops SPOILERS since PJ is going for the "Sauron thinks Pippin has the Ring" that almost absolutely confirms that PIPPIN LOOKS IN THE PALANTIR! which made me very happy. END SPOILERS. And MorG, I think Miami's explanation of how this works with Frodo v Nazgul makes excellent sense.***I did NOT yet get to watch more than what I reported on and I can't wait to watch the T2T SEV preview again (saw no icky soup scene, thank god). Too much to do to catch up with the work I missed and tending some leftover family stuff. I may not post a lot but I am enjoying the tb immensely and sending you all my love.
Ya'll need to check out the "preview paraphrase"... by Skyway Moaters	Aug 13th, 2003 01:04:27 PM
... over at TORN. MASSIVE SPOILERS, so you have been warned, but damn! If it doesn't raise my expectations for ROTK to an even more "unreasonable" level than they were at already!
Still "bilding" Haikus... by Skyway Moaters	Aug 13th, 2003 01:35:41 PM
On warm garden bench/a bildungsroman reading/sleep could be coming
SPOILERS by BG	Aug 13th, 2003 09:49:40 PM
All the news from the paraphrased preview over at TORN is good! To paraphrase the paraphrase: the most spectacular battle ever, the battle is a distraction for Frodo to destroy the ring, Both Pippin and Aragorn look in the Palantir and Elijah says its better then 1 & 2 combined. Well fellow TE's the end is in sight. I'd say we are about halfway up Mount Doom with Frodo on our backs.
'nother uruk-haiku.... by djinnj	Aug 13th, 2003 11:33:51 PM
Mid-bildungsroman// Uruks catch two hobbits and// Start small stones falling. //// I am unspeakably envious of Elanor. Unspeakably.
Nicely done seepy, but can you rhyme the whole word? by Skyway Moaters	Aug 14th, 2003 01:49:25 PM
... not just the last syllable? Something like: "filled lungs grow-man" or "killed young snow man" or "grilled toungues so bland" or "spilled grunge show band" etc etc etc?
Errr...that's what I did. by Seepgood	Aug 14th, 2003 07:42:50 PM
Bear in mind that the "u" of the German "ung" has an indeterminate sound, like English "put". The indeterminate "ing" at the end of a polysyllabic English word is a lot closer to the "ung" of "bilungsroman" than any English "ung" word I can think of, since they all have the hard, precise "u" sound of "putt". So it's more ild -ng oh an than ild ung oh an. You can all wake up now, I've finished.
So if, for instance, I were to say... by Seepgood	Aug 14th, 2003 07:47:52 PM
There once was a wall-building yeoman / To invaders an unyielding foeman / I've seen Tailenders say / (I have doubts, by the way) / That the whole tale's Ingold's bildungsroman.........what would be the matter with that?
Man do I feel foolish... by Skyway Moaters	Aug 15th, 2003 09:47:46 AM
... I bow to your knowledge of German phonetics seepgood! That's a much easier rhyme than pronouncing it with English phonetic rules. My bad. I always enjoy learning stuff like this though...
elanor, see what happens when you cheat? by Miami Mofo	Aug 15th, 2003 01:12:22 PM
Well here's a life-lesson for ya -- elanor cheats by buying T2T DVD two weeks before the official release date, and BANG!!!!!!!!! the entire Northeast region loses power just so elanor will be unable to watch her DVD. OK tailenders, today's question is, which of the Maia caused the blackout?
New ROTK Talkback by daughter of time	Aug 15th, 2003 06:31:15 PM
And spoiler pictures! See you all there.
Vanished, simply vanished by Seepgood	Aug 15th, 2003 08:35:17 PM
New Line getting twitchy? Not sure why they would bother with the DVD release so close, but what else would it be?
At least someone else saw it.... by daughter of time	Aug 15th, 2003 08:56:45 PM
This is getting ridiculous. What was it - four or five photos of no overwhelming spoilerage to anyone who hasn't been living in a cave, and isn't that what AICN exists for? So far, the best spoilers from ROTK remain the calendar, and that was out last winter! It would hardly affect DVD sales or ruin anyone's good time to have left the photos up, or if not the photos, at least an explanation as to why they were removed, and a continuation of the discussion.
Like an old oak table by Seepgood	Aug 15th, 2003 09:09:48 PM
However, if you have the URL you can still access and post on the TB. It could be a sort of meta-Tailend, attached to an article which not only no longer appears on the front page but actually no longer exists. Alternatively, if you knew the right accountant you could probably use it as a tax haven. Set up a few cages and you could hold prisoners there and ignore every law ever written governing what you can do with a human being. You know, when I started this post it was just a bit of fun and I was enjoying myself. Now I'm depressed and angry. Trains of thought can be a right bastard sometimes.
You all have my permission to despise me as well by Pallando Blue	Aug 16th, 2003 12:42:25 AM
.....FOR I TOO HAVE THE TWO TOWERS DVD. :~D I poop thee not! (Nope, not gonna reveal my source.) Been a helluva slammed up workload for almost 2 weeks now, plus work outside work hours RRRRGH so ZERO free time to come by and play. A lurk a day been my peak. (Good grief, the poetry! I am both impressed... and disappointed. For all of those wonderful limericks, there's not a dirty one among em! Yeah yeah, mine neither. That's what made it so difficult for me! So I personally am ditching the recent bildungsroman rule. Nyah. So I'm a cop-out. Seepgood, weren't you around for the original Gondorian Limerick Jam? Thought you was. Anyway, color me impressed!) Oh, I'm sorry. I do believe I digressed. What was I talking about? That's right, some movie. ;) And so I have had this beautiful DVD case sitting right there on my desk STARING AT ME for what felt like years but was really a day or two.... And then finally I cleared off my desk. I tell Work to go away, and away Work goes, precious! We're FREEEEEEE! Ahem. So. Miami probably wants to know, was I successful in my efforts of willpower? Well, of course not. Or at least, partially. Having already spoiler-whored myself to the leaked clip last week, and only having the free time it takes to wolf a sandwich, I figured Awww, what's the harm. I already saw the Big Stuff online, right? (Answer: "Yes and No.") So, I popped in the ROTK Preview and SEV Preview. BUT, in my defense, I did NOT watch the movie proper until I had the block of time to watch it in direct succession after FOTR. Which I did. (Back to that later!) (HIGHLY RECOMENDED) So, there was a little willpower salvaged. * Now'en, what to say that elanor and the other TORN report didn't. "Fill in the corners" like a gorging hobbit, as it were. :) Let me know if y'all want me to just lay it all out right flat for ya! Or, if you'd rather stew for these last 10 short days. Who knows, might be worth it for ya. 'Cause lord knows my ridiculously florid descriptions might make the whole thing not worth it. :) I'll check back tomorrow for the vote! * Meanwhile, here's a taste. I checked out the other reports (natch!) and can clarify one nice little bit. Elanor mentioned a shot she couldn't figure out of someone entering Barad-dur. Welp I know exactly the shot she meant. I thought it was someone dashing into Barad-dur, too. It's a very fast cut. And everything's dark, the tower is in longshot and forboding and stretches past the top and bottom of the screen, its interiors seem to give off an orange glow from some faint light source (only color other than the glowering dark blue) through the large door and windows, it's a bit of a slight swoop up-and-at shot at the bigature. All of suggests Barad-dur. There's a small tower in the foreground, connected to the main tower with a stair/bridge, and it's up those stairs and into the big building the figure's running. I swear my first gut reaction, seeing as how the VO is Gandalf discussing Sauron and Aragorn says his "unchallenged" line directly after, was that this was Sauron sprinting back into Barad-dur after ____ puts the ___ on in __ ____. (We've been discussing that enough lately--the power of suggestion!) Ahem. So I paused it. And noticed the building looked a whole lot shoddier than Barad-dur, in a definite state of disrepair. Chunks out, exposed beams. Then I noticed it was block-built -- and certainly not Mordor architecture (even if decrepit). Took a closer look at the running figure then, back and forth, pause and slo-mo, and discovered the fellow had a cloak. And that it looked as if it was only his size that made the doors and stairs look oversized. Not much distance from his top to his bottom, if you get me. I gulped. Drum roll? ....What that shot is, and there is no doubt in my mind, is Sam all alone stealing into the Tower of Cirith Ungol. It might now be my favorite shot of the preview, if only because I couldn't believe I saw that part of the story. WOOO-HOOO! Nice. Very nice. And don't worry, the rest is fairly straightforward as to what you're loking at. If'n ya want spoilers, I can be MUCH briefer. :) I swear! No, really! *** Looked like TORN grabbed the mystery screenshots y'all were talking about, but damn if I can get them to load on my screen. They're probably hit-hammered is all. Ah well, I'll try back later. meantime, think I'll cue up the sacking of Isengard. ("God, PB's such a bastard!") ;)
Said PB, you should write something risque by Seepgood	Aug 16th, 2003 09:12:09 AM
With nude hobbits, or elves getting frisky / Besides being fun / If you write the best one / The prize is a bottle of whiskey ** No, I missed the original limerick frenzy. That's what comes of only coming here every once in a while. I found the trail but it was already cold. At least, I'm very nearly certain that I missed it. It's just possible that I expunged it from my memory, AICN-banning style. Sorry about that self-indulgent stream-of-consciousness stuff in my last post. Too much Lindisfarne mead, probably. TORN now has a note up about problems with accessing the pictures, although I didn't have any trouble. What need do you jammy DVD-owning types have of them anyway? Incidentally, the Minas Tirith shot is almost identical to the illustration on the cover of my old paperback copy of ROTK. I don't know who the artist was, and I'm working from memory since the cover itself has long since departed, but the resemblance is remarkable. ** Well might Merry and Pippin have laughed / After supping upon an Ent-draught / To the ladies' delight / They don't just increase height / But the length and the girth of the shaft.
Thought some of you might be interested in this, by Conan_the_Humble	Aug 16th, 2003 09:56:30 AM
as it might be my last post as Conan. I've decided to tell Harry what I think of this trend of not releasing 'movie news' and scoops. This is an email I just sent harry. Harry, I must say I'm very disappointed with you lately. Now that might not mean much to you. Who am I? Well I'm a fan. I've been visiting this website of yours since 1999 and posting here since 2000. I remember fondly a time where you would put anything interesting that related to new movies that you received on the website. Now you seemingly kowtow to any wishes of the movie companies they express to you, This is despite all your sanctimonius railing against the 'suits' in Hollywood, you put in your book. Yes that's how much of a fan I am. I ordered your book on the Net after reading the one the Tailenders of the Tb's sent around the World and will shortly (if not already) pass onto you. I can only hope you see the light soon and stop bowing to the wishes of the Movie Companies. I am specifically referring to the screen Caps from the Return of the King you displayed briefly (all of about 2 minutes I believe). TORN has had these very same pics up for hours now. What gives? This is simply the latest in a line of disappointments that seemed to start with Quint's trip to New Zealand and the promised reports. If you don't release 'scoops' and stories that relate to upcoming movies, what reason is there to visit aintitcoolnews.com? Sincerely, Errol COULTIS Conan_the_Humble. Cheers.
Good for you, Conan by daughter of time	Aug 16th, 2003 11:49:57 AM

Thanks D.O.T. by Conan_the_Humble	Aug 17th, 2003 12:56:12 AM
I got a fairly prompt reply from Harry, "in both cases we were asked by New Line to take them down. H." This then begs the question, which I replied to Harry, "does New Line have something against H. KNOWLES?" TORN have been 'allowed' to display those screen caps for a day or more, there still there as far as I know, as are new images of TTT:EE and ROTK. We wonders aye we wonders. Cheers.
Ghaaaaa!!!!!!!!! Conan!!!!!!!!! You told Harry about the book??? by Miami Mofo	Aug 17th, 2003 08:59:40 AM
Well, there goes that surprise. ***Too bad you've been so busy, P.B., but great news about Sammy boy! Meanwhile, make sure that you're free for lunch on Monday, 9/17. Do you still have the book?
Oops, make that Monday, 9/15, P.B. by Miami Mofo	Aug 17th, 2003 09:05:50 AM
The 17th is a Wednesday, and y'all know what that means!
Well, if we can't rely on Harry... by daughter of time	Aug 17th, 2003 12:46:57 PM
... we can at least talk about what TORN has come up with. Such as (hurrah!) screen caps of Boromir and Faramir larking about in happier times, not to mention re-taking Osgiliath, Boromir planting the white banner on the ramparts, Theodred's funeral cortege, etc. All prime stuff, and not a sign of it HERE. I think Harry needs to scramble.
I did NOT have sex with that blackout, Mr. Miami! by elanor	Aug 17th, 2003 02:50:25 PM
And just for that, I'm going to rub it in that I have now watched the entire extra DVD and the ROTK preview about 10 times and the SEV preview about 10 times. So there, pthhhhhht! Ha ha, actually I did a spit take when I read your post. What a crazy time! I was out of power for a mere 21 hours, my poor sis didn't get hers back until 9PM Friday night. She said when the lights finally popped on her whole neighborhood sent up a cheer, there were yells of Happy New Year! Lord, that was just too much on top of the other stuff, my nerves were shot. Got about four hours sleep in the heat, didn't even get a day off work - when I went to check on my office building I found it already got its power back so I felt obligated to stay and answer the the phone. Told all my employees to stay home. Did no business but got caught up on a lot of book work. Got very few calls, most were from colleagues asking if we were all ok. Then got one from an overly cheery dumbass from LA who pushed my cranky button hard. She had a completely non-emergency question and had no clue as to what we'd been going through, that this was anything like a normal day. So I said "Are you on drugs? Go watch the news and call back Monday." My phone worked on Dark Thursday but was out all day Friday until about 9PM. That's when I finally got back online but was nervous and didn't stay on long.*Anyway, back to our topic. But frist, Conan, good for you. I don't understand it, either, especially Quint's reports. Respect is one thing, kow-towing another. The articles are starting in all the other mags, so what gives? Of course I like Harry a lot and it may be he is either way too busy or has something special planned. But I don't think you'll get banned for asking. And, don't worry about Miami yelling about spilling the book-beans. I already told Harry about the book on the PHONE, remember when he called me about the T2T premiere I missed? I told him someone would be bringing it to him soon (ha!) but I bet he has forgotten about it. And now, back on topic -SPOILERS - Yessiree, Pallando - that there is Samwise the Brave. What a shot! And I agree, it is thrilling to recognize it. Here's another SPOILER - there is a very cool shot of Gandalf and Pippin walking into Denethor's presence, past the long lines of pillars. But then there is another shot of Aragorn in the same place, although I see no Denethor, only the throne. I can think of plenty of reasons for him to be there, but he seems to be still in his Strider garb and I can't tell if he has Anduril with him or not. So, I'm wondering what that scene is about? PB? Other lucky early dogs?And also, PB, did you notice that cool shot of Isengard with a rider galloping through? That's got to be Grima arriving, pre-Ent destruction, since I think I see Orcs lumbering about. Alright, here goes: If any of you tailenders want me to try to pick up an early DVD for you I will be happy to do it. HOWEVER, they cost $30.36 and they might be sold out by now. I wish I could have offered this earlier but I was overwhelmed with many cares and did not think I could follow through. I feel more on my feet now, and hope it is not too late. I will head over there in an hour or so to check and then report back so it may be wise to wait until I see if they have any in stock. Those who are interested, send me an e-mail. We can discuss how to do shipping and I am willing to absorb some cost out of friendship.*Another thing, the featurettes do repeat bits and pieces from the comprehensive docs on Fellowship, but there is a bit of new stuff, too. I spent a good 20 minutes today checking for easter eggs but found none. I am no expert at that but I was trying all the things that worked on the SEV, all to no avail. SPECIAL for DoT: You know how the DVD menu's each feature a movie scene behind the choices? Well, I predict you will especially like the one they've chosen for the Special Features disk. And two things from the Fan Mag I did not hear discussed before this. 1. How the designer of Aragorn's crown got the wrong measurements and what happened when he tried it on. 2. How Grima apparently is supposed to notice Aragorn's ring (of Barahir) when he first sees him in Meduseld, then reports to Saruman, who looks it up in a book of lore which leads to the line "So Gandalf Grayhame thinks he has found the Lost King of Gondor". I don't remember any shot of Grima noticing Aragorn's ring, so maybe that moment will play in the SEV, too? OK, more than enough for now.
Tips for INVISIBLE posting by elanor	Aug 17th, 2003 02:55:16 PM
I don't know about the rest of you but the "talkback" and "posting" links are invisible today on my screen. So I just waved my cursor over the spot where the "talkback" box usually is and clicked on it. It worked!
P.S. Seepgood! Your limericks are superb! by elanor	Aug 17th, 2003 02:58:43 PM
Truly inspiring! And thanks for the dirty one. Yes, we're all basement-dwelling geeks with no lives alright. Hee hee!
Bad limerick by BG	Aug 17th, 2003 05:48:30 PM
There was a young Hobbit called Pippin / Whose nose just wouldn't stop drippin' / He said with a sneeze / "I've caught a disease" / "These frogs, I've got to stop lickin'"
Harry would've known anyway Miami, by Conan_the_Humble	Aug 17th, 2003 09:20:35 PM
It's been mentioned on these here tb's before, and as Elanor pointed out, she told him... How's the book going anyway, it's been probably 12 months since I've seen it. Who has it now and when will it be delivered to Harry? Cheers.
he he by BG	Aug 17th, 2003 10:39:43 PM
There once was a tail-end talk back / Whose posts were difficult to track / When tulpas is posed / the order is hosed / Needles to say, my rhyming is slack
Conan... by AliceInWonderlnd	Aug 18th, 2003 05:57:42 AM
You're right, it is getting a bit much. If it weren't for the company I would spend a lot less time here than I do. LOTR is the reason I started following movie sites in the first place, and the scoops are getting really thin on the ground, considering the profile of this movie, and what we do get gets pulled almost instantly. Obviously the studios don't want their property to be disseminated and want to control all information about it. I was under the impression that sites like this were here to resist this media synergy corporate whore tendency. Part of me hopes that NL will come up with some kind of exclusive to make up for things, but we'll see.
By the way, which set of pictures was taken down? by Miami Mofo	Aug 18th, 2003 09:44:33 AM
TORn currently has three sets of pictures up on its front page: Alpha Male's from 8/15 and Terribly Mauled's from 8/16 & 17. All are cool, but it's the Boromir at Osgiliath shots that interested me the most. Makes me wish that one week from manana would be T2T SEV day, rather than just the theatrical day. [Which Ebert and Roeper gave two thumbs up!!] ***Conan, I believe the book is in the possession of a certain Blue Wizard -- the last one on the totem pole so to speak.
Here and Back Again, A Wiz's Holiday by Pallando Blue	Aug 18th, 2003 11:54:47 AM
...So I make the mistake of telling a few friends--in true gloating fashion--that I gots the T2T DVD, and guess what happens to my weekend. Pretty much a LOTR-fest. (Aw, rats!) Saturday night, even, the outdoor film-fest at NIH, the selection was FOTR. Cool! Outdoors, big screen, lawn chairs and a cooler! Thunderstorm. Shut down right after the Council. Upside, we all ended up back at my place for the SEV Disc 2. I kicked everyone out before they could put in T2T--wouldv'e taken us to 4 a.m. at that point. But somebody pointed out that, sure, the T2T DVD's cool, but did you know that it's once again the matinee at the Drafthouse? I did NOT! So, big screen for that one, one more time! With beer and nachos and a theater full of die-hard geeks. Then the train pulled back into the Blue Pad for the DVD extras. Which ended up being replayed at least 3 or 4 times. And the stragglers who couldn't make the drafthouse demanded the movie proper get to playing. And who am I to say no. Although I think I may need to put the case on the shelf for a solid week to cool off. Phew. * MOFO! I assume you mean December 15, right? Well, we'll have to see, I may be squatting in a movie line outside the Uptown. :) If not, I'm free! And yep, I've still got the book. Have yet to crack it however (I figure last in line gets to be lazy). * Elanor! SPOILER TALK: I've been puzzling over that shot of Aragorn approaching the throne, too. The room looks otherwise completely empty... (I also imagined the throne's dais as much bigger, and the Steward's chair much smaller at the base, but ah well--I ain't Alan Lee, neither! Still looks excellent) Yep, he looks to still be in Ranger garb. I'm guessing that this is sometime after Pellenor, but before the Last Council, and maybe just before he goes to show that "the hands of a king are the hands of a healer." Maybe he doesn't camp outside with his troops as he does in the books, waiting until the Steward can recognize him officially. (Just doesn't announce his Kingship to everyone, instead let's the HOH buzz start first?) Notice how, in his new Kingly look, the column he heads out of the city (y'all have this in the online leak) is... well, coming out of the city. So, no camp-out on the battlefield, I'm figuring. OOH! Grima riding into Isengard? I saw that shot, but I swear after a dozen times I've never noticed (or thought to look for) a rider! I thought it was just another panning shot of the wasted Isengard. Okay, off the shelf comes the case tonight. (So weak, so weak...) The disadvantages of having the DVD early: The "bonus DVD-Rom online material" isn't up yet. Yargh! (I know, oh boo-freaking-hoo.) But if you think d.o.t.'ll like the menu for Disc 2, pop that disc into your PC. Installs some necessary viewing software, then has a whole different menu (from which you can pick "special features," which loads up the regular DVD menu, or the LOTR homepage, or the not-there-yet exclusive online content). That menu uses the shot I know d.o.t. reeeeeally wants. If you don't got one, get yerself a DVD-rom, d! I did some easter-egg hunting too, but I don't think there are any. There weren't for the FOTR theatrical disc, either. I mentioned this before, but in the light of recent grumblings of lack of ROTK material I'll ask it again. Doesn't it seem like they're not gonna have a LICK of stuff to put on the ROTK theatrical Disc 2? I mean, they even had to flesh out T2T with Sean Astin's short film AND a making-of. This year, there aren't even any online featurettes! Yet...? ** By the way, elanor, whadja think of "The Long and Short of It"? I thought it was a sweet little scene (nothng profound here, folx), well shot, well staged, well edited. But the Making Of, now THAT was hilarious. The unexpected star, of course, SPOILERS! being Andy Serkis, who in the course of one day fulfills an entire cycle of Hollywood ladder-climbing. Maneuvers his way up from Assistant Location Manager moving road cones, to Assistant Assistant Director, to Co-Producer (getting a chair and a shoulder rub), to an emotional breakdown, and finally a return to his beginnings, humbly, but happily, moving road cones. Very touching stuff. :) Best line: (It's a nasty, cold, windy, rainy day, everyone with their hoods up and looking tired, but game) Mark Ordesky: "I am, on this film, 2nd Assistant Director, for my sins in a past life." Serkis (off-screen): "Mark! Two coffees!" * Okay, I'm still a damn sight rusty, so forgive the strained rhyme 'n meter, but here goes anyway: * Galadriel thought rather dimly / Of her supposedly hot date with Gimli. / "I'd hoped sex with a dwarf / Would be nasty and rough, / But he did everything so bloody primly!"
Oh fish spit! by morGoth	Aug 18th, 2003 12:41:13 PM
OK, OK
weeping, weeping by djinnj	Aug 18th, 2003 12:56:13 PM
I've just ordered the theatrical versions of FotR and TTT. Yes, I managed to hold out this long for FotR, but dagnabit I can't take this anymore! So what if I've got the FotR SEV? I have ta have it all!!! And they won't come until 3-8 business days from 8/26. Damn, damn, damn, damn, damn. (Imaging the subject line spoken like the robot in that old Staples commercial, when his 'girlfriend' was sold, and imagine the 'damn' rant recited like 'Enry 'Iggins from My Fair Lady). Not that I've time to watch either, or the SEV of FotR right now, but what does that matter? I can go without sleep, yeah, really I can. pants, looking wild eyed I'm not an addict, really I'm not.... bursts into hysterical tears And I'll have you know that all this spoilage is just making the wait harder! But, um, got any other juicy tidbits? Pretty please? blinks ingenuously
Pallando, PAY ATTENTION!!!!!!!!! by Miami Mofo	Aug 18th, 2003 01:27:46 PM
No ya big dummy, I did NOT mean December 15th, I meant Monday, September 15th. To recap: Moaters and I will be attending the Springsteen concert Saturday night 9/13 at FedEx Field (the invitation which was extended to other tailenders in the area who might want to join us is still open, btw). My plan is to fly from Miami to D.C. the morning of the 13th, then hook up with Moaters later that day. I don't know if there will be time for us to meet before the show like we did last year, that's why I said keep Monday open for lunch, after which I'll fly back home.
Yeah, Dominic's really rough with riding crop. "Hyah! Get along, by Pallando Blue	Aug 18th, 2003 01:35:00 PM
morG, I really ain't tryin to be contrarian with ya, you know this. But I think I gotcha again. :) ...There isn't any shot of Merry alone on a pony, just a close up of his (pretty intense) face as he's bobbing on something that's galloping. Looked to me like he could just as easily be riding in front of Dernhelm, sick-Frodo-style. That shot of Miranda on her horse, her cloak and spear's kinda in the way but the Merry dummy could be right there in her lap (the camera's behind her). That's a behind-the-scenes videotape shot, not a movie frame, for those listening in. :) So, she might just not have her helmet on at the mo'. OR, might not have a Merry dummy in front of her yet, but it could be the scene where Eowyn tells Theoden she's coming along (only to be denied, of course). Even from behind she looks darn good in armor, holding a big ol' Ro-spear. There's a few shots of the Muster, that's for sure. But I digress. Just wanted to point out there's no actual shot of Merry riding a pony, just his helmeted noggin a-bouncin. I don't think they could get away with (1) Merry suddenly being an accomplished rider, or (2) anything he could drive keeping pace with the other Riders. So, I'm thinking he's perched up front. The saddlehorn may explain his expression. :) * Anyway, speaking of the Three heading into the PotD by themselves, here's some further wild, unfounded speculation on my part. Remember some spy report wherein a fellow mentioned something along "Aragorn arrives in his ghost ships"? Here's what I'm thinking. Instead of leading the dead to sweep across the South and freeing Pelargir, releasing the Dead from their bond and sailing north with a newly mustered army, Aragorn somehow sails north with the Dead, who sweep across the Pelennor and then are released. Just an idear. Certainly one thing furrows my brow--if the PotD is to be used as much as an emergency shortcut through the mountains as it'll be a "test" for Aragorn, they seem to be going through without horses. Are they supposed to be coming through the other side? If so, then what? Pick up some ghost horses? Thought for sure we'd see Brego and Arod being led in at least, but every shot that's apparently of the PotD, they fellas are on foot... * Here's another query for you morG--is "Dwimmerburg" really a Tolkien word? I don't remember it at all (and, being lazy, haven't looked it up yet) and wonder if it's a filmmaker approximated invention like "Lurtz." But that just doesn't seem necessaary. Were the PotD called the Dwimmerburg (sp?) ? *** One last speculation! Who thinks that when Elrond brings Aragorn the reforged Anduril, he THERE lays out the ultimatum that "My daughter will marry no mortal less than the King of Men." Which is the last bit of the Aragorn & Arwen story from the appendices, that hasn't gotten into the movie yet. So, Arwen may not be faking leaving after all, and Daddy gives her the "Hold up, now, let's just see what happens, honey." "Really, Daddy? >squeal!< Oh, you're the BESTEST Elf Lord! [smooch on his cheek] I have GOT to call Galadriel!"
Oh, heh heh, missed that "9" there by Pallando Blue	Aug 18th, 2003 02:19:52 PM
A 9 of all things. Sheesh! Right. Anyway, Mofo, I should be around either/both that Saturday or Monday, whatever schedule works out. (VT has a bye that weekend. ;) A moot sounds good! Keep me posted. * djinnj, you won't be disappointed, good move getting the FOTR theatrical release. It's STILL a damn good movie, after all, and really what precedes the theatrical T2T. Watch em back to back, and sink into the realization that the one IS a natural progression from the other--never before did I have the very real sensation of watching one 6-hour film. There is far less of a difference between them than people seemed to realize last winter (or still). Of course, still can't wait til November, and get to watch the 7-1/4 hour movie... But I expect ROTK, December 17th, to be the continuation/conclusion of the former, not the latter. I hope folx remember that. * Speaking of the FOTR set, remember all the little bits that didn't get into the final cut of T2T? From the sneak peak to the trailers. Arwen's "You have the power of foresight..." Someone creeping up on Narsil's shrine. "He fears you, Aragorn, he fears what you might become." Et cetera. I wonder what if any of the ROTK stuff we've seen isn't going to be in the theaters?
Blue Ninny seen adrift near the Dwimmerburg by morGoth	Aug 18th, 2003 03:37:09 PM

Tonight, on "Horse Hunters" by Pallando Blue	Aug 18th, 2003 03:48:55 PM
...A myopic fellow in a pointy blue hat does his best to find a galloping Grima and a Hobbit-double on a pony. Tune in! That is to say, geez, morG, I honestly never noticed a little fellow on a little pony. I don't doubt yer right, just never noticed the li'l squirt stage left. (Is he sharing the screen with Ms. Otto? That'd be why!) This has been such a slow news year my geek skills have atrophied seomthing TERRIBLE. Man! So, another close look at it tonight, frame by frame if need be. Now look at you made ME do! ;)
Roger that PB! by morGoth	Aug 18th, 2003 04:05:05 PM
And, no, if the lovely Ms. Otto (I have a grand pic of her I'll send, BTW) was sharing the scene I'd never noticed him either. At any rate, here's a slightly pedantic answer to your earlier question courtesy of the Esteemed Vanyar: "Dwimmerberg is a Rohirric word, that literally means "Haunted Mountain" or "Specter Mountain." It is kind of loosely based on Germanic/Anglo-Saxon dialetics. Berg is German for Mountain (Hence, Spielberg literally means "Play Mountain" or "Game Mountain"). Burg on the other hand, means "fortified town." Anyway, I digress. Dwimmerberg was the Rohirric word for the Mountain through which the Paths of the Dead passed, accessed on one side by Dunharrow and on the other by the Morthond Vale. Other examples in TTT of that usage are the words Dwimmerdene (Haunted valley) - Rohirric name for Lorien, and Dwimmerlaik (Haunted being, or Work of necromancy) - Rohirric word Eowyn uses to describe the Lord of the Nazgul."
The LotR:RotK Theatrical DVD - Disc 2 by Miami Mofo	Aug 18th, 2003 04:25:10 PM
should include: Bravo's 'Lord of the Rings: From Book to Screen' show (it's really excellent for those of you who haven't seen it); the multitude of TV specials (I'm guessing three, maybe four) which will precede the release of LotR:RotK this December; the music video for Annie Lennox's theme song; and last but not least, the ONE measly trailer that will be shown on the big screen, if we're lucky, between now and December. ***The really important news for us however is the content of the easter eggs in the RotK SEV: Disc 1: Limericks and hai-ku's; Disk 2: Gondorian joke-off and the filmed but deleted Miami Mofo version of Frodo's Bath Song -- something I will soon have to repost, since all previous postings were wiped out in the Great Banning of '03.
Oh yeah, almost forgot -- the LotR:RotK DVD disc 2 will also inc by Miami Mofo	Aug 18th, 2003 04:36:38 PM
P.J.'s Best Director Oscar acceptance speech as well as his, Fran's and Barrie Osborne's Best Picture Oscar acceptance speech that the Producers give. On second thought, make that P.J.'s and Barrie's speeches -- Fran's so shy she probably won't say a word.
From our German friends.... by daughter of time	Aug 18th, 2003 04:43:24 PM
Lots of screen caps in one place: http://www.herr-der-ringe-film .de/v2/de/news/news-detail_710 .php I get such a chuckle out of the prominent product placement of all those New Zealand Gala apples. From the window sills of Bag End to the snowy Wild to the baskets of fleeing Rohirrim women, and now... floating in drowned Isengard? They will definitely need a good scrub - maybe even a peeling. I am looking forward to their further appearances in ROTK.
By Jove, morG, looks like we're both right by Pallando Blue	Aug 18th, 2003 08:36:42 PM
That is most definitely a "Merry" on a white pony galloping along on the left of Aragorn, Theoden, etc., at what looks like Dunharrow. I don't know how I never saw that! He's plain as day! Frisky little pony, too, and Merry certainly seems to have a knack. ...BUT, the close-up of Merry's face while riding, the film frame, he's definitely sitting in front of someone. And in the behind-Eowyn shot you see she's that someone. The helmeted hobbit head and dangling bare feet are plain as day sitting in front of her, once I peeled my eyes of Miranda (took two tries). ...BUT, she most definitely is not wearing a helmet there, BUT PJ's talking to her, giving direction, BUT I don't see any assistant nearby holding a helmet... And there's other riders in proximity... So, ya know, I ain't sure what to think of that particular scene. But in my heart of hearts I just don't see how Fran and Phillippa could POSSIBLY pass up giving Dernhelm and "the reveal" their due moment. It's TOO classic. Certainly one of the most iconic moments in the whole book. Maybe they won't try to deceive the audience with Dernhelm, that could prove exceedingly difficult, just the other characters. Hmm. Wonder if we'll get any more clues in the September trailer... And I really hope there's not too much overlap with the footage in the new trailer. But they've been pretty good about that in the past... Bah. Can't think. Now to find Grima! *** D.o.t. thanks for the links! Jah, das Herre de Ringe ist gut.
The Blue Wizard by morGoth	Aug 18th, 2003 08:38:08 PM
Yes folks, thanks to the wonders of modern DVD
No fair! by morGoth	Aug 18th, 2003 08:46:08 PM
Dammit Pallando! Your post was frist before mine by only a bare second and a half! Ingold too! Don't get me wrong, I think she's only without helmet temporarily while getting dorection from PJ. ** Ingold, rest assured, the pic will find it's way to you termorrey.
The Big Easy by Miami Mofo	Aug 19th, 2003 08:10:42 AM
I know it was an "easy" question, but did I win something nonetheless? Like maybe 'po boy' sandwich? [Ellen Barkin has never been hotter, btw.] ***BoS (Back on Subject): It's Tuesday! One more week (ef e, mG, PB) until LotR:T2T DVD day!!!!!!!!!
A little more for y'all's salivating pleasure by Pallando Blue	Aug 19th, 2003 10:35:35 AM
Being the one-week mark and all. :) As for the Battle of Pelllennnor [sic] (1 l and 2 n's or 2 l's and one n? Can never remember! I'm a baaaaaad fan ;) fields, not much actual action footage is shared. There's some talk and shots of the Riders swooping down across the plains, and even into some baddies, but not in context. And the shots from the leaked clip you've seen. Plus some close shots of some fighting (oh, and one GREAT shot of Eomer charging at the camera on horseback, spear up for killing, with this incredible, MANIACAL look on his face!). But as far as seeing the immense scale of the assault and the siege in full throttle under dark skies... No real footage... BUT. There's a lot of conceptual art panned over, for one. And for those of you who have seen any of the art for the first two movies, you know how eerily they've put almost those exact images--no matter how amazing--somehow on screen in photoreal live action. Well, that's all I could think about watching some of that art go by. If that stuff's realized on the screen anywhere near the quality they've reproduced with the previous films' art... holy crap, the world will not know what hit it. I honestly don't think the un-LOTR-read are ready to even imagine it. I know my non-Tolkien-read friends were sitting there eyes wide and mouths hanging open, muttering "Na-a-a-aw..." *** And then on the technical end of things, we see Christian Rivers and PJ working out the battle plan on the computer. The field laid out, 200,000 orcs, and trolls, and siege towers, and catapults, in various formations across the Pelenor [sic], covering easily twice the area of Minas Tirith. Rivers clicks on the little rectangle representations, "Blocks of 1,000, blocks of 200, blocks of 2,000, 5,000, 10,000..." Meanwhile, PJ is describing how they can't just design the battle shot by shot, that there has to be a continuity to the attack. So he and Christian were in there designing the strategy, figuring out the war campaign "like generals the night before the battle" [misquote]. Deciding when the orcs move in, when the catapults are fired, when the siege towers are moved forward, etc. So what I'm thinking is, something like a cross between the laid-out sequence of events at Helm's Deep, and the Balin's Tomb virtual "hand-held" combat-cameraman that moves among/above the action as it happens around it. Yee-yee-yeesh. Oh there is gonna be some SERIOUS swoopage I betcha! Hoo-wee, I wonder if they're going to show any of that in the September trailer. I remember how surprised I was that they showed off the breaching of the Deeping Wall last year... Anyway, morG, certainly looks like your fave chapter is gonna be getting its due efforts. And THEN some.
That's i before e except after c by Miami Mofo	Aug 19th, 2003 11:54:32 AM
or when sounding like a as in neighbor or weigh. And it's one l and two n's in Pelennor, just the opposite of Pallando, which has two l's and one n. Therefore oh Wizard in Blue, just think of your first name, and reverse it, sort of.
17 till the 17th!!!!!!!!! by Miami Mofo	Aug 20th, 2003 05:16:07 AM
As if you didn't already know this, but IT'S WEDNESDAY! SEVENTEEN WEEKS (efe) UNTIL LOTR:ROTK!!!!!!!!!
SPOILER DOOM!!! by AliceInWonderlnd	Aug 20th, 2003 08:23:26 AM
Just saw this bad boy over on CHUD - it's Frodo at Mount Doom. Bad quality picture but you gets the idea... http://img.villagephotos.com /p/2003-8/169724/frmd3.jpg (close up the space after "com"). So, what do we think? Do we dare look? And for the record, I'm not getting into what's on the divida with you guys, because, in a Cartmanesque style, I hate you guys so very, very much. I really do. How dare you have this before me? You will rue this day, I swear it! (Swirls cloak and storms out)
It's absolutely spoiler-whore-ific! by Pallando Blue	Aug 20th, 2003 10:05:07 AM
As in, the image quality. Yeah, yeah, I looked all right. But boy the quality of the pic is bluh. As in blurry enough to water your eyes, especially for such a small image. But ya know what? I just don't ca--in fact, lemme look again. Oh yeah. That's the stuff. Insert drooling Homer-esque "uhghughguhhgughguhguh" right... here. No--here, insert it here. * Aw, Alice, the truth is, none of us REALLY have the DVD. We've been making it up this whole time! (You should read the snickering e-mails going back and forth.) I swear. No, really. Aaaaallll made up. [snicker] * Miami, finally a mnmnmnmnmneumonic I can remember! Merci, Mofo! * Alice, cover your ears. Despite all you thought that you knew, / Every one of these limericks is true. / If not for Elanor, / The exquisite editor, / The Red Book would be rather Blue.
those waiting for Frodo to look more decrepit by djinnj	Aug 20th, 2003 02:29:27 PM
should see the new posters at the official site. Of course, I'm sure you've all seen them by now, good li'l fans as we all are.
Eep! There go some of my heard earned by morGoth	Aug 20th, 2003 04:39:47 PM
Nopers, I hadn
The 'Sam holding Frodo' poster by Miami Mofo	Aug 20th, 2003 04:44:51 PM
is definitely the one I'd send to El_Barstardo if I only had his address. Hey Conan, I don't suppose you could find out our favourite bureaucrat's address and hand deliver it, could you? I'm sure he would just love it. ;~)
morGy, I've gotten a shit-load of 'em also. by Miami Mofo	Aug 20th, 2003 04:52:10 PM
So now I'm blocking everything. One problem though, I can't receive any e-mails directly unless I frist enter the name in an address book, something I had hoped the earthink program would automatically do from my current address book. Fuck these viruses, their creators, and the horses those creators rode in on!!!!!!!!!
Haggard Frodo by daughter of time	Aug 20th, 2003 05:10:31 PM
My guess is that he's gotten himself torn and muddied on the Stairs, though I'm still wondering about the shots of spiderweb in Ithilien. How does that figure into the geography? Great new shot, anyway. That blurry one that Alice favored us with is a puzzle. Yes, he looks crazed (as much as one can make out anything) but shouldn't he be putting the Ring on and not dangling it out? And I'm still hoping for a grander moment: Frodo as miniature Dark Lord and not bent-over Gollumish tranformation. And hasn't this site become useless for spoilerage? All we are able to do it dig it up elsewhere and come here to discuss it! C'mon, Harry....
Yup, getting virus-spammed left an' right by Pallando Blue	Aug 20th, 2003 05:13:11 PM
Chalk me up as another one. And if any of you see an e-mail "from" me DELETE THAT TOO! I'd let you know if I'm sending something, and put BOTH our handles in the subject line. Cause I've also been getting a ton of "returned e-mail" and "e-mail you sent has been blocked" and "your e-mail had a virus" messages. And I ain't been sending no e-mails from that address. So, obviously someone's hijacked MY addy as a carrier of sorts. I just hope nobody here's gotten burned! I was wondering if that was why Tailend traffic dropped off so harsh? I'd feel terrible if I was used to successfully hurt someone's PC. I'M INNOCENT< I tell ya! It's not just from AICN, either, those virus hackers are getting wily ALL OVER the Net lately. Our whole building started getting those "More details" and "Thank you" virus spams (and my work address comes nowhere NEAR AICN, believe you me). I think there's some sort of underground hacker holiday going on. Did that "MSblast" thing send the million messages to Gates Saturday, anyone know? I had at least 4 warnings from my firewall/virus scan company last Friday to fully update, etc.
Not long now by Xyzan	Aug 20th, 2003 07:41:12 PM
oh thank goodness they finally gave us something else, a small indefinable trickle to stock expectaions that should be dying of starvation but are only driven to frenzies for the lack of decent spoilerage. but then, one picture is enough to cause swoonings and thunks echoing off far distant mountains. Okay, i know most of these images aren't new, but the fact that i've not been able to look at them all through personal choice, i became slightly fixated on one particular picture. wonder which? All i can say is look! the chain is dragging into his neck! (forgotten which poster mentioned this a couple of weeks back, but i agree with them, this is too important and exsquist a detail to miss!)* Congratulation to all the tailenders who got the dvd early, but please realise that there's probably going to be a surly silence as we reflect on how lucky you all are! (shakes fists in annoyance, looks at the calender and speculates for the 500th time that year whether time travel would be possible.)* Got hit by the blast worm virus thing last week, but it was cleared up after a couple of days. no-one seems to agree what starts them, and somebody i know got me paranoid by suggesting that just going online contracts the virus, instead of attacthments.
Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Ohhhhhhh! by elanor	Aug 20th, 2003 09:34:45 PM
Major Frodo Swoonage! Viggo who? I want more Elijah NOW! Omigod those posters are swoony-woony shots. The haggard-Frodo-against the-stone-wall one is somewhere on the DVD but somehow it looks even better as a poster. Who knew dirty white-shirted sweaty open-necked bloody Ring-induced cuts on the necks of matted curly haired hobbits could be so SWOONIFEROUS! Aaaaaahhhh...thunk. *Ditto on the virus e-mail swampage from my home e-dress. Out of close to 200 that came last night, 20 had the virus but my Norton quarrantined them all. I deleted another 175 this morning before I went to work. 28 of them were carrying a virus. My computer guy says the virus only gets you if you open the attachment which I haven't done and so far my Norton has caught them all. Funny, though, our work computers have not been attacked. Our PC software is so old the virus is not written for them! Yahoo news says it's worldwide at this point and that this virus is programmed to self-destruct in two weeks. TWO WEEKS! Egad! Damn all virus writers! Damn them all to hell!*Hey Pallando, I did it PB style last night! It was good! hee hee hee.
And once you do it PB style by Pallando Blue	Aug 20th, 2003 11:33:21 PM
...You never go back. ;)
That is one romantic poster by daughter of time	Aug 21st, 2003 01:30:56 AM
Swoonage indeed. There's some famous artist or other hovering on the edge of my consciousness, that this reminds me of, and it's not Caravaggio.... Maybe a little touch of the pre-Rafaelite, but in a good way. I may have to invest in some of that really expensive printer paper.
And now for something completely different... by Conan_the_Humble	Aug 21st, 2003 06:17:18 AM
Go and have a look at Quint's Interview with John Cleese. Quite good. I think I'll go watch Life of Brian. Oh and the ROTK posters are cool too. Cheers.
Dernhelm sighted! by Pallando Blue	Aug 21st, 2003 02:57:14 PM
Geez, movie spoilers right on the box. "Eowyn in Armor" indeed! Here ya go: http://www.theonering.net/scra pbook/view/7912
Yep...saw that Pallando. by morGoth	Aug 21st, 2003 04:18:30 PM
I sent it to Vanyar and he quickly did a Photoshop deal on it. So, I now have the loverly Dernhelm as my wallpaper. But really, talk about spoilers! Looks great though and that helmet does cover quite a bit of, coughcough* "his" face. Man, I sent Harry a short e-mail about the new teaser posters (from my work addy since my home e-mail is kaput!) but I guess he's just not interested in LoTR these days. Hey folks, when you look at the pic (scene for those who have the divida already...snigger, snork) from the RoTK preview showing someone holding a newly forged Anduril, notice the person has on the sort of layered gauntlets exactly like the ones Elrond was wearing in the Last Alliance footage. Wouldn't that be fitting if PJ had Elrond be the one who re-forged Narsil? I'm still betting it is he who delivers it to Aragorn at Dunharrow. Whatcha think mellyn?
Frodo Poster by daughter of time	Aug 21st, 2003 05:02:36 PM
I like what Calisuri has to say about it on TORN: "Frodo looks like he is pleading with fate to just let him die then and there. Like the will to go on has been completely sucked out of him." Though I think I can still see some will flickering, even if it's pretty well drenched in despair.... The more I contemplate this poster, the more I love it.
Dernhelm's helms by JD1866	Aug 21st, 2003 08:50:26 PM
I couldn't help but comparing that new picture of Dernhelm with one taken from the trailer (http://my.en.com /~whitestr/images /image002.jpg {remove the space after .com and after images}) and noticed that Dernhelm has more than one helm. Perhaps one for battle & one for parades? *** Ingold, while I would be happy to oblige, the experience would kill you. Have you never wondered what happened to greenleaf? Perhaps Mandos may yet release him, but don't hold your breath.
Float like a butterfly ... sting like a bee ... by Miami Mofo	Aug 21st, 2003 09:27:46 PM
Dernhelm's as pretty ... as Muhammad Ali. :~) [PS Ingold, The Big Easy is in my DVD collection.]
Pardon me madam, is that a Hobbit you by morGoth	Aug 21st, 2003 09:36:43 PM
That does it; I
Derp! "phony" not "pony." by morGoth	Aug 21st, 2003 09:40:21 PM

Why, so it is! by JD1866	Aug 21st, 2003 10:37:46 PM
Merry & Pippin. Hmmphh. Well, I guess I'll just not mention who I thought Merry was. I suppose for that I shall now have to pay for Miami's nite at the Club (and take it out of Ingold's hide at a latter date). ~ Note to self - Have eyes checked & stop drinking Gothmog's bathtub gin! ~
morG... by AliceInWonderlnd	Aug 22nd, 2003 05:34:45 AM
Your talk of helmets on knobs has a rather... different connotation over here in Britain. I therefore hold you entirely responsible for making me snigger immaturely whilst in work. Oh, and I have divida joy in my bag, waiting to be ravished of its shrinkwrapped covering and plunged into the waiting maw of my divida player. Go me! The major retailers in the UK have apparently decided to break street date and release it TODAY, since it's Bank Holiday weekend and thus crazy to wait until Tuesday. Yippee, as Jake Lloyd would say, if I tolerated any of that Phantom Menace shit in my house. (Stalks out with a swirl of her cloak, seeing as morGoth liked it so much the last time...)
Uuhhh-hhuuuuhhh-uuuhhhhh... by morGoth	Aug 22nd, 2003 07:07:43 AM
...cloak swirling...mmmmmmm. Erm, well, ahem, yes now Alice, at least I didn't say anything about German helmets or rockets, now did I? ** Didn't I warn you about that stuff JD?
Rockin' New Zealand by Miami Mofo	Aug 22nd, 2003 08:16:03 AM
Hey BG, just read about your earthquake over at TORn. Hope everything's OK. That N.Z. Herald article says that there are reports that it was felt all the way over in Sydney, Australia. True or not, you must've felt some shaking in Auckland, yes? *Something like this always brings back the memory of "The Big Debate" with my California friends: What would you rather go through, an earthquake or a hurricane? [The correct answer, of course, is neither.] And speaking of hurricanes, we're now keeping one eye on Tropical Depression #9 (#9, #9 ...), soon to be Tropical Storm F something, that looks like it will arrive here early next week (hopefully not as a hurricane), probably Tuesday morning when I had planned to suanter over to Best Buy to purchase my copy of the LotR:T2T DVD. Oh well, I can always borrow my friends airboat. **Alice, cool news about the DVD. Enjoy your 'Slacker Day!'
Review of a TTT DVD review. by morGoth	Aug 22nd, 2003 10:02:57 AM

pokes his head up, looking around blearily "Did someone say by mortsleam	Aug 22nd, 2003 10:18:16 AM
Greetings from work, where your friendly neighborhood Walrus is slowly catching up on six weeks of piled paperwork'n'e-mails. Don't worry, I've found time to do plenty of lurking, just haven't been able to post 'til now. Until I was summoned by the Walrus-Signal. And for the record, for all of you early DVD owners: I hate you all. Every one of you. Sincerely, and from the bottom of my fractured flipper. Especially you, Alice. Because you were prepared to wait like the rest of us pathetic slobs, and STILL got the durndangdwarrowdwimmerdung divida before I did. It's really not fair. And I'm not just saying this for me, but for my fellow comrade-in-disability Miami. How are we supposed to fully enjoy our convalescence without access to the wondrous healing hands of the King? Uhm...that sounded a little bit "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" there. So I'll just change to the marvelous ministrations of Marylin Mon-Rohan. That better? Manhood intact? Yes. To continue, although I also have no access to 10 minutes of ROTK spoiler goodness, I've been studiously avoiding all the fun little urls you've all been so graciously doling out. I'm going to try to go into this one fresh and pure, like the bottled water I'm still drinking despite Detroit/Oakland County health official's assurances. Although I did take a look at the posters on the official site. I even e-mailed them to a friend of mine, a Tolkien virgin who exclaimed, "What's going to happen in the next one, DAMMIT?!?!" It's fun to see this story through the eyes of a neophyte. It's even more fun to torture said neophyte with tantalizing hints. Like Elijah Wood's assessment of the movie from the latest issue of Ent. Weekly: "Things keep getting more and more desperate. This one goes to the limits of darkness." Bwa-hahaha...
December 5th!!!!!!!!! December 12th!!!!!!!!! by Miami Mofo	Aug 22nd, 2003 11:31:53 AM
Mark those dates down in your calendar, cause on the 5th LotR:FotR SEV returns to the BIG screen (well 100 of 'em anyway), and then on the 12th LotR:T2T SEV will be shown on those same 100 screens. Then on the 17th -- well I'm pretty sure something important happens on that date, but I can't remember right now. ;~)
DECEMBER SIXTEENTH!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!! by Pallando Blue	Aug 22nd, 2003 11:36:14 AM
My GOD, Miami, you left out the best part!! "....leading up to a worldwide Dec. 16 daylong marathon, during which all three films will be shown back-to-back. Exhib guidelines call for a 3 p.m. showing of "Fellowship" followed by a 7 p.m. screening of "Two Towers" and then an 11 p.m. screening of "Return of the King," which will carry over into Dec. 17 -- the day of its global release." .....And I'm spent. (thud)
Sweet Illuvatar's Shiny Magic Dingus!!!! by mortsleam	Aug 22nd, 2003 12:00:10 PM
I have a sneaking suspicion of exactly what will be shown at this year's Butt-Numb-A-Thon. If anything can get me off my lazy ass and into the Physical Therapist's, this will. It's too bad that they be showing the ROTK SEV at the same time. Come on PJ, give us a full twelve hours! We can take it!
Oh what Delicious Dilemnas! by elanor	Aug 22nd, 2003 12:38:39 PM
What to do, what to do! I am astonished by the news of the pre-ROTK part i & 2 showings. Did NOT see that coming!. And the SEV's no less! But now I am flummoxed. I have just discovered the joys of PB style LOTR viewing wherein one watches Theatrical Part I before Theatrical Part 2 and SEV part 1 before SEV Part 2 for maximum fluidity of viewing experience. So here, suddenly, we have a chance to watch both SEV's on the big glorious screen right before we see what I presume will be the NON-SEV version of ROTK. Will that set me up to like ROTK less? Will it create unrealistic expectations? Will I possibly be able to resist going anyway? Have I lost my mind? YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
Blubulant flippered mammal diss by morGoth	Aug 22nd, 2003 12:46:44 PM
Hullo mortsleam, thought a killer whale might
Moaters -- Get Well Soon!!!!!!!!! by Miami Mofo	Aug 22nd, 2003 03:39:10 PM
September 13th is coming! You and Pallando and morGy need to check your e-mails for important Miami Mofo travel info. Seriously though, feel better, AND GET YOUR ASS OUTTA THAT HOSPITAL BEFORE TUESDAY!!!!!!!!!
Good grief! Tailenders dropping like flies! by Pallando Blue	Aug 22nd, 2003 04:51:16 PM
Miami's back, mort's leg, now Skyway's... "ew"! Get better fast, Moaters, and everybody. Checkin' the mail in a mo, Mo! elanor, I know I know I know. Flummoxapalooza. Guess I better go about blurring that line I've been so sternly drawing between the theatricals and the SEVs! And I share your questions--will there be such a noticable difference in tone and pace from the previous 7-1/4 hours of LOTR that the theatrical ROTK is lessened for it? And you what my answer so far is? I DON'T CARE! WOOOOO-HOOOOOOOOO! ** And to repeat: GET HEALTHY, you injured/ailing people! Okay? (Hmm, Get Well Limericks, eh...)
Frodo and Sam Poster by daughter of time	Aug 23rd, 2003 02:14:42 AM
Just in case anyone would like to order that one independently of the other teaser posters, it is available at Hollywood Dreams here (and with the others, at a better rate than directly from New Line): http://www.hollywooddreamsonli ne.com/-
Seen it! by Xyzan	Aug 23rd, 2003 03:47:29 PM
Finally! Thanks alice for the heads up, went into town to get a dvd and we got it, yes precious! And its Outstanding. I'm still stubbornly sticking to the spectulation of rings thru eyes though. And i've fallen for the hobbits again, especially sam and merry this time! *** hope all the tailenders get better by the time they show the extended versions in cinemas. But i hope all the cinema's show them, as if they're offered choices the cinemas might decide that the theatircals are more cost effective. * spoilers? - i think that aragorn's probably got his magic dingus during the paths of the dead, so that halfway answers that question, but how's he gonna get it? This films too far away.
New Talk Back! by morGoth	Aug 24th, 2003 11:07:04 AM
Hullo Xyzan, glad you finally got onto the glory which is the Two Towers divida. You Brits sure jumped the gun! ** New TB on the RoTK teaser posters, #15903...cya there{[:^)

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