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Talkback League of @$$holes goes off on TEEN TITANS, ELFQUEST, DEATH, H-E-R-O!

Hey, is Hellblazer still going? by Amadeus Zero	Jul 26th, 2003 03:46:07 PM
Used to like that. Has it been any good lately?
Elfquest by Fuzzyjefe	Jul 26th, 2003 03:48:42 PM
I'm right there with you Cormorant. I read Elfquest back when Marvel's Epic line reprinted it, and I can't wait until these nice big volumes come out. It's been years, (I gave my run of the series to a friend) but I still love those elves. The Pinis really knew how to tell a story with equal parts fantasy, emotion, action, and fun. Just can't wait.
Hellblazer by Fuzzyjefe	Jul 26th, 2003 03:53:21 PM
Yeah, Hellblazer is still around. I'm not sure if Brian Azzarullo is still writing it, but his run was supposed to be pretty good. Sorry if I spelled his name wrong.
Why not mention the twist at the end of Teen Titans #1 by BigDogg	Jul 26th, 2003 04:02:35 PM
Part of Superboy's origin is that he's half Superman Kryptonian DNA and half human DNA. We were led to believe that it was just some Cadmus scientist but Teen Titans #1 revealed that other half and I was absolutely shocked and I can't wait to see what they do with this.
I've got an idea. What better way to capitalize on the Smallvil by Zod_Is_Back	Jul 26th, 2003 04:04:31 PM
That really pissed me off when Superboy ended. They finally got somewhere that had some potential. Instead of having him living in some stupid underground lab or an apartment building, do a flashback to the silver age. Superboy once again living under the roof of the Kents. The first few pages of Teen Titans #1 show what a good idea that is. They even gave him a real name, Connor Kent, instead of that lame Kon-el name they were calling him for a while. Plus he wears the glasses. Hell they could even introduce Chloe in the DC universe and have her be the editor of the school paper and Superboy's love interest. And how about that ending... Spoiler Warning... . . . . . . Robin receives an email that tells him that the DNA used to create Superboy, which Superboy knew they took part of Superman's DNA and then grafted it to human dna. He thought it was this scientist guy (i forget his name, but he died.) But it turns out his DNA is part Superman, and part LEX LUTHOR!!!!!? How fucking wild is that. Well like I said, DC, start your own Smallville book in your universe with Superboy/Connor Kent as the main character. Even more importantly, hire me to write it. Just make sure you don't send Superboy to the Legion of Superheroes like you are planning. They already got that one dude who is like him and wears a Superman outfit. Leave Superboy in Smallville where he belongs.
The HELLBLAZER skinny by SleazyG.	Jul 26th, 2003 05:22:44 PM
The series is still running, and it's the best it's been in a very long time. I like Azzarello, but he's good at crime and bad at magic. Also, his entire story arc was set in America, with an "Oz" riff and then a bunch of rednecks. Not his best work. The current writer, though, is Mike Carey of LUCIFER, and he's kicking a lot of ass. He started out with some good ol' John Constantine in England stuff, and now has him traveling the world to investigate an impending crisis. This allows him to see/interact with a lot of interesting types and shows us more than the usual Judeo-Christian angels and devils stuff. Really good--well worth the money.
Genericity? Are you serious? by nathanrayn	Jul 26th, 2003 07:30:36 PM
I've read your reviews the past couple of weeks and am appalled at not only your opinions, but also the apparent basis of your opinions. When one of your ilk criticizes Batman, you criticize the character for all the things that establish him as a relevant character to readers, and have since the days of Kane. Lee and Loeb have done a great job on the book as of late, but why not take a look at the full body of work starting with NML, look back at Miller's take on things, Devin Grayson's family perspective, and then begin to speak, because then, and you're getting off light here, might you have the vaguest notion of what a Batman book should be like. Next, I've read "Dial H for Hero", and I've read "H-E-R-O", and I have to say, your fond memories of the original series are either twisted by time or betray your burgeoning bad taste even at what I'm imagining was a very young age. Read 'em again, then start writing, Sparky. And again, "genericity"? What were you thinking? Currently there are about a quarter of a million actual English spoken words floating around out there. Try and pick some real ones, and give it another shot.
elfquest by johnnysunshine	Jul 26th, 2003 09:35:04 PM
I picked up that new ElfQuest book about a week ago and I was equally impressed by the new. Looks like I too will be rebuying the entire series as DC makes them available in their new archives series. I'd highly recomend it to anyone who hasn't read the series before.
I know Troia died in Graduation Day, but who was the other. by Steal_Dragon	Jul 26th, 2003 11:13:26 PM

Re: OUTSIDERS by Dave_F	Jul 27th, 2003 01:02:31 AM
I was the one who argued the merits of the first issue of OUTSIDERS in the wake of Vroom Socko's scathing dismissal (seen here: http://www.aintitcool.com/disp lay.cgi?id=15554), but I gotta confess...the second issue left me a little cold. It had its moments, like Luthor's blas
Hey, you other ELFQUEST geeks out there... by Dave_F	Jul 27th, 2003 01:24:36 AM
Has anyone read the post-Richard and Wendy Pini stuff? As in, the material that started appearing after (I think) the eighth volume of material, when they started letting other creators into their sandbox? I like the Elfquest setting, but it seems like such a personal thing that I'm wary of seeing it through other creators' eyes. Anyway, DC's gonna be reprinting some of this material in addition to the color archives of the core material. They way it works is that the non-core stuff will be printed in black and white volumes that will cover the Elfquest stories as they occurred chronologically for the characters. I figured this meant the first collection would go several generations back from Cutter and his tribe, but looking at the PREVIEWS solicit, it talks about stories with Cutter's pappy and with Cutter and Skywise as well, so apparently it's not going too far back. Given this, I'm actually a little interested, moreso because the volume will actually have a few stories by the Pinis. But getting back to the original question: has anyone read these stories, and are they any good or just the equivalent of "expanded universe" Star Wars pap like TALES OF THE MOS EISLEY CANTINA?
Re: TEEN TITANS... by Dave_F	Jul 27th, 2003 01:38:42 AM
Jury's still out for me, but can that Mike McKone draw an amazing Superman or what? I know McKone had his shot on a Supes title, but just imagine what he could've turned out if he'd been working with a stronger writer than Loeb?
Nathan: 1) I was the last person to review Batman, 2) What the h by Village Idiot	Jul 27th, 2003 01:51:10 AM
Hey Nathan, Village Idiot here. To my knowledge, I was the last person to review a Batman title around here, hitting both BATMAN #616 and DETECTIVE #784 . Both were positive reviews. Both offered analysis on Batman and how he was portrayed with a reasonable amount of historical context. What exactly is your beef, brother?
Cormorant by mitchconnors	Jul 27th, 2003 02:04:12 AM
Actually, Morrison has said in a few interviews that he likes Cyclops quite a bit. And to me, he seems more like a real person now than he ever has in the past. But that's just me.
Mitch... by Dave_F	Jul 27th, 2003 02:56:23 AM
...I've heard that about Morrison, but I don't know if I buy it. I can uappreciate that Morrison has made Cyclops more approachable by baring his insecurities such that he's not quote the "perfect little soldier," but looking at Cyclops's portrayal throughout NEW X-MEN's run...what has Morrison really done to show how he likes the character? Made him cheat on his wife? Shown him to be a whiner caught up in himself? Had him go drinking at the HQ of the villains who paved the way for Phoenix's death? Made him symbolically impotent by having his optic blast "peter out" in the latest issue? Christ on a crutch, the man's got a strange way of showing his fondness for a character!! My theory: what Morrison "likes" about the character is that he perceives that he IS weak, and because Cyclops in many ways represents a sort of classicist, stoic hero - a paradigm Morrison probably hates - he enjoys exposing his weaknesses. Given how long it's been since Cyke was cool - probably since the mid-80's - I guess I can see the sort of perverse desire the tear down what he's become, but we ARE talking about the original X-Man here, the one member who grounds the book in its origins. To say I'm not enjoying watching Morrison emasculate him is putting it very fucking mildly. Now Quixote over there...he thinks Cyke's in for some redemptive moment in this current storyline, but I'll believe it when I see it. Honestly, I think Cyclops could laser off the head of Saddam Hussein at this point and it wouldn't make up for the mud Morrison's slung at him. Ubiquitous qualifying remark: I'm still more or less liking NEW X-MEN. I can accept that it's not very close to the X-Men I grew up with and enjoy it on its own merits. That said, last issue was a vague and ambiguous hunk of poop. Does anyone actually like this Fantomex jagoff? Morrison's got him doing more camera-muggin' than fuckin' Jackie Chan.
New X-Men by Dog Of Mystery	Jul 27th, 2003 08:38:29 AM
Damn. The era is ending. I suppose I should be jazzed that Morrison's got other irons in the fire and all, but I really have enjoyed the ride he's taken us on through Xavier's School. I don't think that Morrison has exposed any faults that Cyke didn't have before -- it took him all of one issue after Jean died to hook up with another woman, fer chrissakes. The flaws give the "perfect little soldier" much-needed depth. Here's hoping they find a writer as good as Morrison to take the reins after his departure...say, for instance, Mark Waid???
Elfquest & Cerebus by GypsyTRobot	Jul 27th, 2003 08:56:44 AM
Elfquest was a fun read back in the high school days. I still enjoy reading the graphic novels. + BTW the saddest geeks of all are the ones whose girlfriends cheat on them and the cuckolded victims rationalize it as "recognition". + I used to read Cerebus too, but it got to be too much -- Dave Sims is a misogynist and an egomaniac. If there is a hell, I hope he'll spend eternity there eating used tampons. Super absorbency size.
"Dial H for HERO" is over 30 years old by the G-man	Jul 27th, 2003 09:17:16 AM
And originally appeared, I believe, in the old "SHOWCASE" book, the same one that introduced the silver age Flash and Green Lantern
Hey, Aliencaptive... by Dave_F	Jul 27th, 2003 09:26:32 AM
You wrote: "I doubt I'll buy it again unless Wendy takes up the brush and pen once more and creates the expressive, haunting and enchanting artwork that at one time made me a rapt follower of the Wolfriders." Ah, thanks for reminding me! Amidst all the talk of reprints, I forgot to mention that Wendy and Richard have a new story scheduled to appear before year's end. Kind of a multi-tiered push, as it turns out. Sneaky bastards...
When will Guy Gardner return? by Zubalove Lives	Jul 27th, 2003 12:36:25 PM
I'm still a little miffed that Guy didn't make the Formerly Known as the Justice League book. When is this great character going to be given a spot in a team book so he can really shine again? I can't help but think he could have filled a spot in Outsiders a lot better than a few of the slubs in that book. Too bad they are drawing Arsenal exactly how they were drawing Guy at his end.
Cormorant by mitchconnors	Jul 27th, 2003 01:01:03 PM
It's understandable that you'd be pissed having grown up with a different/better version of the character. I only started reading X-men in the early 90's, so Cyclops has alwas been the leader guy, and that's about it. Any recommendations (trades, issues) where Cyke was cool?
MitchConnors - Cool Cyke by JonQuixote	Jul 27th, 2003 01:23:40 PM
Mitch - Want a Cool Cyke, here's what you do. Essential X-Men Number Two! This has the Proteus Saga, which contains - arguably - the coolest Cyclops moment. Proteus, a reality-warping soul-sucking mutant, has just handed the X-Men their ass...particularly Wolverine, whose enhanced senses ground him in reality moreso than the others. In fact, the beating Wolvie took has got him so unnerved, he's on the verge of turning coward. Cyke figures that turning yellow is worse than death for a soldier like Logan, so in classic comic book fashion, he decides the best way to save Wolvie...is to kick his ass! And he does. He starts raggin' on Wolvie and then blasting the hell outta him, whipping Logan into such a berzerker fury that all the hairy little Canuck wants to do is kill kill kill. Then it's time to re-sic him on Proteus! Great story, and at the end, Wolvie finally gives Cyke the respect he'd been denying L8derBoi 'til that point. *** Other great Cyke stories are the Dark Phoenix saga (same volume), and the first couple years worth of X-Factor, where Cyke is dragged through the emotional mud as Jean comes back to life, his Jean-lookalike wife & young son go missing, and - in one of my favorite comics of all time - he has to fight Master Mold, alone, while suffering a complete nervous breakdown. Kick Ass!!
Comic Book Question by Elohim	Jul 27th, 2003 03:08:14 PM
I've been trying to remember the name of a comic I read when I was a kid, and I thought this might be the place to get some help. Reading about Elf Quest reminded me of it. It featured elves and humans in a fantasy setting, and the two main things I remember about it were that: A) It was violent. I think a main character died in the issue that I had, and it was rather bloody. B) There were these elf assassin characters who wore all black and had extremely pale faces and hair... almost albino looking. Does this sound familiar to anyone? It would have been about 15 years ago.
"Sexy blue hooded sorceress"? by jinX	Jul 27th, 2003 05:05:01 PM
Oh you mean Raven? I recall her differently. Kind of sexless and chaste in a detached from humanity way. Maybe if you like that whole nun thing.
Other Titan Death in Graduation Day by jinX	Jul 27th, 2003 05:08:03 PM
Lilith, the groovy psychic sometimes referred to as Omen.
Elohim... by Dave_F	Jul 28th, 2003 01:35:59 AM
This violent elf comic your read as a kid (when was that?)...any chance it was POISON ELVES, or that series' predecessor, LUSIPHUR? I haven't ever followed the series, but I've seen enough to know it matches your description more or less.
Unc's drunk. by Dave_F	Jul 28th, 2003 01:46:30 AM
Dude, I don't have my X-Men issues in front of me, but I think you're off by a year or two with the claim that Cyke hooked up with another dame right after Jean died. First girl I remember him going out with was the fisherwoman - Lee something - and that didn't happen for at least a year, right? Sure he was working alongside her for a time, but romantic sparks took a pretty good while if I recall - at least a year. Hmm, and when did he date the girl from POWER MAN AND IRON FIST? I know he did, and remember it being mentioned in the X-MEN issue where they got their asses handed to them by Dracula, but I guess the actual foolin' around must have happened outside the pages of X-MEN. To some degree, even Claremont, much as I like his work from that era, is responsible for downgrading Cyclops from his cool status. Sure, the character had been the team's foundation for roughly its first hundred issues, but as Claremont's feminist fetish began to take hold and Storm became his main point of interest, he definitely started to diminish Cyke's coolness.
Mo' cool Cyke... by Dave_F	Jul 28th, 2003 02:03:59 AM
Mitch, Quixote's reference is indeed a seminal Cyclops story, and is really about as good as it gets. The character also tends to get fleshed-out when his girlfriends are dying (kinda like Daredevil), so I'll similarly echo the recommendation of the Dark Phoenix Saga, and add the FROM THE ASHES trade where Cyclops falls for creepy Jean Grey look-alike, Madeline Pryor. The highlight of the latter: Cyclops taking on the entire X-Men team, who're convinced by illusions that he is Dark Phoenix...and watching him mop up the floor with 'em. GOD LOVES, MAN KILLS had some excellent moments with the character, though he's not the star, as does the "Brood Saga," which runs roughly issue 154 through 167 (with a few one-shot stories in between). I've always had a particular fondness for the friendship/competitiveness shown between Cyke and Storm in issue #154, which almost seemed like it might have been the beginning of a relationship. Might've been interesting, probably more so than the Madeline Pryor riff to come, but it wasn't ta be.
Zubalove... by Dave_F	Jul 28th, 2003 02:09:10 AM
Word on the street is that a follow-up to FORMERLY KNOWN AS is already in the works under the title I CAN'T BELIEVE IT'S NOT THE JUSTICE LEAGUE, and rumors are already percolating that Guy Gardner will make the scene. Seems I even heard there'll be an homage to the famous "One punch!" scene.
I never liked Elfquest, even in the 6th grade. by rev_skarekroe	Jul 28th, 2003 08:54:28 AM
Those giant-haired little freaks gave me the creeps. Brrrr.... sk
YJ was a cool book, and I'm sad to see it replaced with Teen Tit by Johnny_Canuck	Jul 28th, 2003 09:28:11 AM
YJ kicked ass as a book. The Peter David/Todd Nauck team was a great idea. Sure, it was mostly a humour book, but it did show excellent character development and well-written "serious" moments as well. I like to think of it as a more-surreal-early-"Buffy"-in- a-superhero-universe. Normally, I enjoy Geoff Johns' work, but I don't think I like the direction he's taking with some of the characters. My major beef is with Impulse. In the YJ book and his own book, he'd gone through a lot of character development, and while still wacky and (ahem) Impulsive at times, he'd learned there are times to shut up and be serious. Geoff doesn't acknowledge that character growth in the Flash book, and it looks like he's gonna ignore it here, too. Impulse becomes Kid Flash? What's up with THAT? Goeff seems to grasp the other characters' individual personalities, but not their group dynamic. The Teens snubbing each other when they first meet here? That just wouldn't happen, based on their shared history from YJ. I'm gonna recommend that Geoff sit down and read the entire run before he continues on this path. I've no problems with Mike McKone's art, as I'm assuming Titans storis will be 90% more "serious" than your average YJ. I just wish I could see Nauck drawing a big-foot Impulse again. Oh well. "Only constant is change", and all.
Hey, Johnny Canuck(re: YJ and TITANS)... by SleazyG.	Jul 28th, 2003 11:41:21 AM
...the reason the characters aren't really speaking to each other is they've been torn apart over the deaths of two characters in the craptastic ass-fest that was GRADUATION DAY. Some of them feel guilty, some of them blame others, and nobody's in the mood for Impulse's shenanigans. I can't blame Johns--he did a hell of a job writing the characters and addressing the fallout from the shiteriffic mini that Judd Winick "wrote" to give himself a reason to suck on THE OUTSIDERS. It seems like Johns likes working with him, and I'm sure it's because Judd's a really nice guy. All I know is that he sucked on GREEN LANTERN, the most recent issue of GREEN ARROW had some horrible groaners, and GRADUATION DAY is the worst comic I've read since OUR WORLDS AT WAR. Point is, don't blame Johns for bad writing--he's actually done a really good job of writing about stuff somebody else came up with that happens to suck.
YAY! ELFQUEST! by Jaka	Jul 28th, 2003 12:42:31 PM
Thanks! As time has gone on, I have read so many reviews of Elfquest that try and compare to to the type of comics that exist now. Religating it to a "kid's story", before even attempting to read it. It's the first comic I ever picked up (the magazine size #3 - bought that and #2 that day in 1982) and I love it to this day. Granted, they cashed in on it at the end. But the first few arcs are brilliant! Happy to hear it will be getting another go around. Would like to say that I find it interesting, to say the least, that Elfquest is picking up again as Cerebus is ending.....Lastly, fuck DC/Vertigo for the constant cashing in on Sandman with books written by other people. They think because the title doesn't say "Sandman" that we won't care. Well, we do care. I quit buying all the crap they put out. Release as many new toys, statues and other various collectables as you like - even publish books like Lucifer (it at least passes for an OK book), but were the Endless are involved, leave the dirty work to Neil. Please.
To all those that gave up on Cerebus... by Jaka	Jul 28th, 2003 12:49:35 PM
...I don't blame you. Buuuut, the little guy got what he deserved! Mostly. I will have to re-read the last 50 issues about 5 times to fully "get-it" I'm sure. But lately, as I keep saying, it's starting to make sense again...a little. The end of ONE OF THE most important pieces of art in the 20th century is coming to an end. You may not agree with Dave and his ramblings. In fact, you may hate Dave and his ramblings, many people do. But what he and Ger have done is important and impressive. How many of us have followed a dream from thought to reality to it's conclusion. Dave did it. And it was no small feat. Yes, the book changed, A LOT. But don't just throw it away as Dave being an anti-social, mysoginistic, egomaniacal nutter. Even though that me be the case, it's part of the point! It's real. Especially if you buy the monthlies and read all the letters columns, essay's and various rants. The decline, or the awakening, of Mr. Dave Sim is half the fun and half the point.
I didn't give up on Cerebus. Exactly. by rev_skarekroe	Jul 28th, 2003 02:04:44 PM
I did miss an issue recently though, and I didn't even notice. sk
The letters column in Cerebus is half of why I stopped reading t by GypsyTRobot	Jul 28th, 2003 02:50:17 PM
When the letter columns seemed to make up at least half the book, I had to wonder who was doing more work - Sims or the person typing up the letters??
Thanks guys by mitchconnors	Jul 28th, 2003 03:38:42 PM
I'll start loading up on the next comic run.
GypsyTRobot by nny777	Jul 29th, 2003 01:50:40 AM
That comment about the letter column in Cerebus is idiotic. The price never went up regardless of the size of the issue and every single issue of Cerebus from day 1 till now has 20 pages of story. So if the letter column affected neither the story size or cost of the comic, why would it affect your buying decision?
Crom, Cyclops Did Have A Girlfriend Between Jean's Death & The I by Buzz Maverik	Jul 29th, 2003 06:31:28 PM
Her name was Lee Something and she was the captain of a fishing boat in Florida. Cyke joined the crew as a deckhand. They fell for each other when Cyke was menaced by the demon D'Sparye (or whatever). Later, then boat was sunk in a storm created by Storm when she was encased in metal after her dinner date with Dr. Doom (weather went nuts all along the eastern seaboard). Cyke and Lee washed up on an island that may or may not have been R'yleh but contained a creepy city with monolithic Cthulhu figures for ornaments. They were greated by the master of the island, Magneto who was using the place for a base and as a comic book genius did not recognize Scott without his X-suit on even though he'd seen him several times in continuity without his X-suit on and as a genius should have figured out that he was keeping his eyes bandaged shut because he was Cyclops. A true cool guy, Cyke sort of forgot about Lee. Later, after Warlock and the Magus crashed through Asteroid M, Magneto splashed down in Florida and was hauled out of the drink by Lee. She hooked up with Maggie (evidently being non-denominational when it comes to putting out for both superheros and supervillains). Magneto sort of forgot about Lee when Secret Wars 2 started and Xavier asked him to lead the X-Men and New Mutants against the Beyonder. Maggie then joined the X-Men because if you've ever tried to kill the X-Men it automatically qualifies you for membership. I don't know if Lee ever showed up again, but somebody ought to give her superpowers and have her hunt down all the the superheros and villains who pooched her then forgot about her. I can imagine the list : Ant Man, Giant Man, Yellowjacket, Goliath, Hawkeye, Black Goliath, the Man Thing, Shang Chi Master of Kung Fu, the Grey Gargoyle, Volstagg, the She Hulk, the Son of Satan, Nighthawk, the Guardians of the Galaxy...
I Know I Addressed My Post About Cyclops' Sex Life To Conan's Go by Buzz Maverik	Jul 29th, 2003 06:40:19 PM
...but I was really addressing it to the President of the Talkback @$$holes of America. However, if you're reading, O Crom, "I nebbah prayt to yoah befoah. Now I do nod hab der time. Id dosch nod mattah dot ve ver guht men oah badt, oah ib ve lieb oah die. All dot mattahs isch dot two schoodt uhgainscht many. Bodt I aschkt yoah vun ting, Crom. Guhrahnt me rebinge. Und ib nodt, den der heil mit yoah!"
don't know if Lee ever showed up again, but somebody ought to g by JonQuixote	Jul 29th, 2003 07:15:06 PM
Can't...stop...laughing. ...pooched.. bwahahahahahahahaa

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Talkback League of @$$holes goes off on TEEN TITANS, ELFQUEST, DEATH, H-E-R-O!

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