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BUFFY 7.10 Spoilers!!

Cheers! by GeneralZoddd	Dec 12th, 2002 04:40:06 AM
Thanks Herc! This season is actually shaping up to be my favourite yet! I would suggest to anyone who gave up on this show with Season 6 (yes it was badly handled) to tune back in because it is ALL happening! Just hope that they haven't peaked too early. General Zoddd!
impersonating the dead by Latenighter	Dec 12th, 2002 05:28:18 AM
It may be splitting hairs, but technically Buffy isn't dead. Not now, at least. So it's not true that The First has so far only impersonated those who are dead.
Speaking of Non-Sensical Vampire Questions... by Agent	Dec 12th, 2002 05:57:59 AM
It's silly to drown Spike since vampires don't breathe. But is it equally silly how Spike puts Dru in a sleeper lock in Becoming Part II since there's no air for her to breathe either?
Thats the thing with Joss's Vamps by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 12th, 2002 06:31:06 AM
They don't stick to the rules much. Ever notice how Spike and Angel will stand in a window full of sunlight, all the fucking time, and not seem to give a shit?
Extreme geekyness ahead by FatXander	Dec 12th, 2002 07:21:32 AM
ok, this is extremely stupid, but in Becoming II when spike chokes drusilla, he's probably just cutting off the circulation to her head. We obviously know that vamps have working circulatory systems, so it's more likely he's getting her to pass out by cutting off the blood supply to her head. And Giles better not be fucking dead. I'll be really pissed off.
Its true by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 12th, 2002 07:39:29 AM
Giles is dead, its a big twist that we're all not supposed to see coming. Don't be fooled!
Yeah but... by Ryo	Dec 12th, 2002 07:43:41 AM
If Spike was cutting off Dru's circulation, that implies that her heart is beating, which they make a big deal out of (Buffy says that she felt Angel's heart beat back in Angel S1 etc.) I think it's just that they don't follow the rules (just like with the SiT)
Inviso-Text. by Valrist	Dec 12th, 2002 08:36:57 AM
Ok. When did everything Buffy/Angel spoiler related become Inviso-Text only? Can someone please turn that OFF? Please...PLEASE! We all know it's spoilage. Nasty, rotten, spoilage. Oh, and $750,000/episode for the Buffster to do another season sounds good to me. She has my blessing.
GIles is not dead by jerkstore	Dec 12th, 2002 08:56:05 AM
Does anyone remember the upcoming show Ripper that Joss says he still wants to do. Kind of difficult if Giles is dead. He fine, don't worry.
If he's dead... by RobertVanGraham	Dec 12th, 2002 08:58:01 AM
~FIRST POST EVER!~ If the G-man is really dead, I think that will be the proverbial nail in the coffin for me. It seems that Josh & Co. have been trying to end this show for three seasons now for a variety of reasons. The big Buffy death/rebirth. Giles leaves, comes back, leaves again, and now is back again. Break up Z and Anya, Kill off Tara, Kill off Mom, Kill off the Nerds of Doom...anyone else starting to see the pattern? It seems they can't have consistent character development because they don't know which actors are going to want to be around next season. In my humble opinion, SMG should not be counting her movie chickens before they hatch. She should invest herself into the Slayer role for as long as she can. Two more seasons or so as Buffy isn't going to typecast her anymore than these 7 seasons already have.
Yep; he's dead by unwell_arena	Dec 12th, 2002 09:02:42 AM
I always knew that if Giles didn't show up without some sort of bandage on his head, he was a goner. And now he's not touching anything...You think there's actually going to be a Ripper series? You're all dreaming. And Whedon himself confirmed that this is the final season a few weeks ago. Anyone remember that? Thus, Giles' death would not be that surprising. Yeah, it pisses me off royally, but its true. Wait and see.
First impersonates only dead people? by Kauzi Sezso	Dec 12th, 2002 09:04:32 AM
Excuse me, but the First has impersonated Buffy (not currently dead) and Drusilla (not confirmed dead anywhere that I know of), and Spike (ok Spike and Dru are undead. So nitpick.). So the First could be impersonating Giles, whether or not he is merely dead (or really most sincerely dead). Or it could be magical Giles. How does the current Giles life status affect the "Ripper" BBC series, anyway?
anyone who can't see the is-giles-dead storyline is a fake out by allnamesaretaken	Dec 12th, 2002 09:11:57 AM
needs to go and review their tapes of season 7 and the end of season 6 again,when they make it look like Spike is getting the chip out,he goes and gets a soul. when they go and make it look like Spike is killing again,he's really being controlled. its ANOTHER FAKE OUT! just like the Dawn the SiT spoilers are! in episode 11,theres 3 more sit's show up,then in episode 12 one of those sit's are gone,that sit that is gone by episode 12 is the First while the viewers will think its giles,but its not people,its a fuckin fake out!
Ripper is a story about ghosts right??? by BannthisUcommies	Dec 12th, 2002 10:03:40 AM
So whos to say that Giles isn't that ghost? Hey maybe its robo-Giles?
give me a damn break by Forget_Byron	Dec 12th, 2002 10:05:07 AM
Giles, doesn't touch anyone?! WTF?! Buffy and the gang not knowing where he is AND knowing the other watchers are dead. You'd think they rush him for the relieving embrace when he shows up. If there aren't hugs all around just so ME can continue its foolish cop-out coy play a while longer, I'm done. And I hope some of you have the good sense to demand the level of REALISM Buffy writers have always shown in their scripts. Joss, stop playing coy with the loyal fans and freaking tell us what the hell is going on with the G-man. Otherwise, BTVS RIP!
Why can't Giles be dead? by Doppelganglander	Dec 12th, 2002 10:07:56 AM
Who says "Ripper" has to take place AFTER BTVS? The title alone would tell me it's about Giles' early days, either pre-Buffy or even pre-Watcher.
It's not holy water, you idiot. by Asmodeus	Dec 12th, 2002 10:33:48 AM
Not unless it's been diluted like crazy. That's beyond retarded.
Good ole' Barry by FatXander	Dec 12th, 2002 11:03:43 AM
just yesterday I asked myself "I wonder what ever happened to bwstarwars? Maybe he finally got botted off for beinga dumbass." And then, low and behold, you appear. Thanks for reminding me why i loathe and detest you. Baptizing a vampire? thats beyond stupid. far beyond it. We all know that having a soul doesnt mean shit as far as holy water, and we know what it did to Angel when dru tortured him, how would spike possible survive without major disfigurment? exactly. fuck off
more important issue here by ArchDiver	Dec 12th, 2002 11:15:52 AM
Does anyone feel that the ubervamps have too much of a Blade2 feel to them? Is this something to be concerned about? ... nah, ME can handle retreads just fine. AD out
giles by sjanich	Dec 12th, 2002 11:25:39 AM
Giles is most likely not dead. However, that does not mean that the "Giles" who shows up in Sunnydale is the real Giles. I suspect the first Evil can immpersonate whoever. It just happens to impersonate the dead more often for the psych efect on the living.
Spike's "drowning" by dorfer	Dec 12th, 2002 11:39:21 AM
Do people forget Spike draping himself all over a cross earlier in S7? That's pretty disfiguring and brutal. I bet he could come back from some holy water dunkage. But, even if it isn't holy water, it's still annoying as hell. He doesn't have to drown or risk death to be tortured by something. Shit, the Chinese Water Torture (in which a person is tied down and water drips on their head at regular intervals) is a well-known form of torture that does not threaten death to the victim. ___________ If Giles is dead, can I have his tweed jackets? --d
well at least barry isn't posting those fucktard poems anymore by allnamesaretaken	Dec 12th, 2002 12:15:39 PM
but the troll needs the boot for making up foilers.
Uber Vamps by Josquin0	Dec 12th, 2002 12:42:45 PM
I don't claim to be an expert on the Buffy mythology, but I usually catch the show. Back when the Mayor was preparing for the ascension, didn't Anya say something to the effect that the demons seen on earth are not the actual forms the demons would have in their own dimension? The ascension was to allow the demon to come forth in it's true form. They've also suggested that vampirism is sort of a demonic infection which can take hold once the soul leaves the body at the point of death. When I first saw them, I just assumed that the "Ubervamps" are just those vampire-causing demons without the benefit of a human host?
Gdamned Starwars by ThingsThatTimDog	Dec 12th, 2002 01:32:05 PM
As scary as it may be I think i actually found the poems less annoying than the shit he is posting now. Use that Mouse O Spite Harry and delete this damn kid.
If bwstarwars is right by GypsyTRobot	Dec 12th, 2002 01:41:11 PM
do we all owe him hotpockets, or do we have to eat hotpockets? How does that work exactly.
testing by Randy Giles	Dec 12th, 2002 01:44:38 PM
testing
"ONE MORE BUFFY THIS YEAR! by Ravenwing263	Dec 12th, 2002 01:46:38 PM
I dunno if this has alread been covered, since I skipped the review and the TB as to avoid sources, and I'm not even sure if it's true . . . but reliable sources tell me that a new Buffy will air next Tuesday, on December 17 (or 18, I forget which one is Tuesday). Just making sure y'all know so no one misses it.
Josquin0's Theory by Randy Giles	Dec 12th, 2002 01:47:29 PM
Yeah, sounds good to me. I agree.
Theory on Giles by Gudlyf	Dec 12th, 2002 02:12:12 PM
I was thinking that it still could be possible for Giles to be dead AND have the Ripper series. Who says the Ripper series has to be based on present day? First of all, it's going to be a shorter series (from what I read, something like 8 episodes?). I was thinking that the series could be based either on the time before he met Buffy (doubtful), or the things he did in England after he left Buffy and before we saw him get the axe.
Anthoney Stewart Head ain't getting any younger by Bored Man	Dec 12th, 2002 03:07:11 PM
I have a hard time believeing that the Ripper series will be anything like a prequel because he just isn't young enough for that. Although I don;t put it past Joss to kill off Giles (He has said in many interviews that killing off a main character is something he likes to do) I think that killing off Giles woudl be a mistake. The killing off of Tara was a mistake because the whole evil willow storyline was heavy-handed and cliche. If they kill off Giles it will only serve one purpose, to show that the First evil means business, we can get that from massive beating of Buffy (like Glory, Adam), and the killing of the watcher's council. Besides, we all love Giles and dont want him dead, so Waaaaa. Anyway he probably is dead, as the axe was in full momentum right before it hit his neck, and if they don't immediatley mention it like "I almost got killed by a minion but it barely missed" then its not realistic for him to be alive and must either be dead, or a product of bad writing (and that couldn't happen on this show). I realize the Slayer is supposed to have a tough life but man, there is such a thing as being too realistic, everyone important to her dosnt have to die just for the show to be dramatic, for god's sake come up with something more origional.
And dont you think Faith and Willow by Bored Man	Dec 12th, 2002 03:09:45 PM
Should gt it on? No wait think about it. Willow has seen the darkside and its easier for her to relate to Faith now. Faith has never had any relationships with men, MAYBE because she really likes women. I think the second to the last episode should be one big bedroom romp between faith and willow, depicting graphic lesbian sex between the two, occasionally involving Anya and Buffy. What do you all say? Eh? Sound good?
This one is for Anyawatcher.... by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 12th, 2002 03:18:57 PM
Xander is sooooooooo fat, when he ran away, they had to put his picture on the milk truck.
In Faiths own words: by ThingsThatTimDog	Dec 12th, 2002 03:46:01 PM
"So Red stopped driving stick eh?"####I think Faith found it amusing that Willow was in a lesbian relationship not envious. Still I think their character catharsis now is so very obvious...that of course the writers will fail to capitalize on it. Faith shares much more in common with Willow now than she ever did with Buffy. But of course some Fillow action would be cool too.
Faith by Randy Giles	Dec 12th, 2002 03:57:32 PM
I fail to see why the TBers find Faith to be such an "interesting" character. Oh, wait, i forgot. She's a "cleavagey-slut-bomb." I'm not really reaching here. Those are the only two Faith observations I have seen in my days on the TalkBacks. Faith is "interesting" and "hot." I'm beginning to wonder if that doesn't mean the same thing to you fools. Here's hoping Buffy kills that shit out of her.
Once again by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 12th, 2002 04:02:55 PM
A good example of how the Vamp rules for Whedon are never set.
The scar by ThingsThatTimDog	Dec 12th, 2002 04:21:30 PM
The chinese Slayers sword was blessed by a priest thats why the scar didnt heal. Hows that? Damn almost hurt my arm on that fanwank.
The First HAS only looked like Dead People by WhiteTrash2000	Dec 12th, 2002 04:33:33 PM
Actually, Buffy's been dead 3 times. 1.12 - Prophecy girl 5.22 - The Gift 6.20 - Villains Spike is technically dead, and so is Drusilla. So it's only looked liked dead people. Vampires are considered dead. It doesn't say anything about formerly dead yet.
Can't wait to see this... Season 7 just keeps getting bigger and by a goonie	Dec 12th, 2002 04:35:09 PM
I'm happy to hear there's more than one uber-vamp. Good for them. These Giles rumours are getting freaky. I can't wait to see how his entire storyline unfolds. Only a few Slayers-In-Training left?!? Man, those hooded figures have been busy. Sounds like it's for sure: Watcher's Council HQ is gone. And the Scoobies declare war!!! Oh man, air it now!!! Please!!!
Stanley Tweedle and Spike's Scar by Randy Giles	Dec 12th, 2002 04:41:16 PM
Here's the deal on Spike's scar. James Marsters got it in the process of being mugged. Rather than cover it up, the writers went with it. Go to bed, spotty.
Stanley Tweedle and Spike's scar by Randy Giles	Dec 12th, 2002 04:43:24 PM
Here's the deal on Spike's scar. James Marsters got it in the process of being mugged when he lived in Queens. Rather than cover it up, the writers went with it. Go to bed, spotty.
posts by Randy Giles	Dec 12th, 2002 04:44:32 PM
It's so exciting trying to guess where in the TB your post will end up next! YIPPEE!
Spike's Scar by Cardiff Giant	Dec 12th, 2002 04:45:42 PM
When they were doing James Marster's make-up for the first time, they wanted to cover up his scar, but James thought it would be cool to leave it in. Anyone know if it's there in Fool For Love? That's the only look at William of the past. Tuesday's Buffy is going to freaking rule!
Shut up barry by Hoof Hearted	Dec 12th, 2002 05:27:41 PM
I hate you.
barry sucks...nevermind by corteth	Dec 12th, 2002 06:33:35 PM
i have full-fledged bwstarwars envy. why can't I be a dick? I try really hard, but I can't seem to do it as well as good old Barry. Ok, let me try one more time. Giles wasn't killed by the axe because he's the First Good and can no longer interact with physical objects. This is why he doesn't touch anything. He was also in charge of booting Cordy from the boring bright place...he couldn't take the incessant whining. heh. I know. Not even close.
Just read a great story on bwstarwars... by chickenmonkey	Dec 12th, 2002 06:33:49 PM
http://www.theonion.com/onion3 846/nation_afraid_to_admit.htm l
my theory by sigma957	Dec 12th, 2002 06:45:54 PM
my theory on giles....and just so everyone knows....this is a completely uninformed theory since i really haven't been watching the show much in the last couple years...i like this theory...he's not dead, but is in a coma back in the UK, but is astral projecting....yeah..cool...i like it....works for me.....anyone anyone...Buehler?...ok...i'll just shut up now....
A Giles theory by slaystuff	Dec 12th, 2002 07:20:09 PM
Ok, I have a theory. Didn't Giles and his buddies back when he was Ripper go into a temporary death like status to be possesed by the demon Eyghon in the 2nd season episode "The Dark Age"? So when you think about it, if the First Evil is taking the shape of the dead, undead, or once dead, he could be doing that with Giles if he is impersonating him. I really doubt that Giles is dead. So Buffy was once dead, and if the FE can only take the form of those touched by death then it is possible if Giles did do this at one time the the FE is doing this. Also, all those that bitch that Buffy is not a good show anymore, please, get over it. It is an excellent show. Sure, 6th season was rocky, but it's back with a vengeance and better then ever. All the characters are awesome. Oh, and get over the fact that Nick Brendon is bigger then before, this happens, so stop being such a**holes about it.
Oh, one more thing by slaystuff	Dec 12th, 2002 07:22:57 PM
It did look like the Harbinger came awfully close to whacking Giles' head off, but, remember, Giles could have been protected by a spell of some sort. He is not stupid, and he seemed to know what was going on so he wouldn't just walk around unprotected.
Huh? by Hoof Hearted	Dec 12th, 2002 07:33:41 PM
Whats an a**hole? Di you mean: asshole? Pussy.
Giles dead, alive, or both by Hyperspace	Dec 12th, 2002 07:44:36 PM
I think Giles is alive, but the Giles we see in ep 10 is not the real giles. I think the group will find out about the first's hoax when Giles shows up. They will realize the first can impersonate anyone, so they can not now who to trust. My thoughts, Hyper
they can't get rid of the scar because by allnamesaretaken	Dec 12th, 2002 08:06:43 PM
its a real scar! on jm's eyebrow duh!
where the hell did my post land at? i can't see it! by allnamesaretaken	Dec 12th, 2002 08:08:30 PM
pop luck!
by slaystuff	Dec 12th, 2002 08:12:16 PM
Oh, I know what an asshole is. It would be that overused thing you've got behind you. I also know what a pussy is, it's something you never get.
Spike's scar by Doppelganglander	Dec 12th, 2002 09:16:53 PM
The scar is covered up in the first flashback scene in "Fool for Love." So presumably Spike acquired the injury as a vampire. (I'm fairly sure he has the scar in the second flashback, taking place in Yorkshire just a few months after Dru turned him.)
Spike's scar part deux by Doppelganglander	Dec 12th, 2002 09:18:41 PM
Of course, my mistake -- Spike does get the scar from the Slayer during the Boxer Rebellion. Well, it's a very sexy scar any way you slice it.
The best part of Buffy these days by Entilzha Proph	Dec 12th, 2002 11:02:20 PM
is trying to guess where your Talkback will end up - so true.
Ok, a couple of things by Entilzha Proph	Dec 12th, 2002 11:08:34 PM
1. Whats the deal with Bwstarwars/Barry? Clearly there is history here I am unaware of.- - - - - - - - 2. I suspect (whether we like who it came from or not) that it is some sort of holy water torture. - - - - - - 3. Josquin's theroy on Ubervamps - I think that might be the case, although I've always thought they would look closer to the Angel monster we saw in Pylea. - - - - - - - - - 4. One aspect of the Buffy/Angel mythology disregard that bugged me - The whole pure demon thing that the mayor was - If what Anya said was true, then what was the deal with the pure demon's on Angel (I think they were called the scourage, or something like that) that killed off Doyle? - - - - - - - 5. How are the SIT's breaking Buffy mythology? Not certain I see how - help me out here
Oh, one other thing by Entilzha Proph	Dec 12th, 2002 11:11:54 PM
I think the Astural projection does make a certain amount of sense. I don't think Giles is dead, but I don't think that is necassarily him walking around. Interesting question - the line that has been tossed around is that the first can only inpersonate those who "are or have been touched by death." If thats so, then Giles mightn't have to be dead to be impersonated - you can be touched by death, and never have died IF you have killed someone (and we know Giles has done that). Just a thought
Why cant anyone in the Buffyverse Ever Be Happy? by Vnhaln1	Dec 12th, 2002 11:53:45 PM
I have watched BTVS and Angel since day one and never missed an episode. One thing I have noticed is that there is not a single character on either show that ever gets to remain happy. No relationships last. They should have let Xander and Anya get married and live happy together. At least show us that there is some hope in the Buffyverse for happiness.
Vnhaln1, for that to happen, by Entilzha Proph	Dec 12th, 2002 11:56:06 PM
there would have to be hope in the real world - something distinctly lacking
Spike's Scar by PandaDiddy	Dec 13th, 2002 01:58:25 AM
In "Fool For Love" Spike gets the scar in his eyebrow when he is fighting the Slayer during the Boxer Rebellion.
Hey Herc! How about some friggin Spoiler Warnings next time! by Bari Umenema	Dec 13th, 2002 02:54:34 AM
Jesus now you've gone and ruined my Buffy watching pleasure with all those fucking spoilers and no warning about them! Thanks Herc! Thanks a lot you jerk!
bari, you friggin moron by Custodes	Dec 13th, 2002 03:15:35 AM
what the hell do you think inviso-text is for, unless youre being sarcastic, youre almost as bad as bwstarwars. goddamnit
First Evil impersonations by Hyperspace	Dec 13th, 2002 09:10:51 AM
Where has it ever said that the first could only inpersonate the dead? Most of who he has impersonated it the past where dead, but that does not create a rule. I think he can impersonate whomever he chooses, but he usally impersonates someone who will bring others pain. Impersonated angels victims only because it would cause him pain. I guess you could say he can only impersonate people that have been touched by evil, but then again we have no canon rule to base this on. I think it's much more interesting to say he can impersonate anyone he chooses. This way later in the season you won't know who is who. This will make it much scarier for the scoobies and will help to shake up the cohesion of the group, making the question everything. My thoughts, Hyper
I am still bumed from previous spoilers that by Spike fan	Dec 13th, 2002 09:39:40 AM
Faith is going to bite the big one (WHY THE HELL HAS SHE NOT BE GIVEN A SPIN OFF) in favour of Dawn the Vampire SLayer which Joss and ME have been clearly trying to set up this yr.
Firefly canceled! by BrotherKofi	Dec 13th, 2002 11:02:37 AM
New hope for another Buffy season?
THE SIT DO NOT CONTRADICT BUFFY MYTHOLOGY by Randy Giles	Dec 13th, 2002 11:28:49 AM
Look, folks. It's not that difficult. It doesn't go against continuity, it's not a cop-out. There IS only ONE slayer. The SITs are not slayers. None of them WILL be slayers until Faith dies. They have merely been recruited by the Watchers Council, because they show slayer potential, and are being trained in the off-chance that THE slayer dies and her powers are transfered to the next (which is what it means to be "called" or "born" as a slayer). The SITs don't have the slayer package. They are missing the final, supernatural, piece of the slayer puzzle. Most likely, none of them will even be called. What makes Buffy special is that she fell through the cracks. She wasn't found before being called, so she had to learn as she went along. As Kendra said, it depends on where you grow up. The society Kendra grew up in took the slayer mythology very seriously, and Kendra was taken by the Watchers almost immediately. However, she didn't become "THE" slayer until the Dutchess Of Buffonia "died." It's not complicated. There is only ONE true slayer. Technically it is Faith, but, if you ask me, Buffy is the true slayer.
Firefly RIP by Randy Giles	Dec 13th, 2002 11:34:56 AM
Buffy, to me, will always be the best show on TV, but Firefly just blew me away from the very first episode. It was such a tremendous show, great for completely different reasons than Buffy. I have never felt that close to a cast so quickly (not even Buffy's). Fuck FOX. I really hope UPN picks it up.
to Randy Giles: no, it doesn;t conflict with canon, by 93curr	Dec 13th, 2002 02:20:11 PM
but I gotta wonder why Buffy didn't lose her slayer powers when she died at the end of season one. There should only be one active slayer at a time. When Kendra accessed the powers, Bufy should have been deprived of them.
93curr by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 13th, 2002 02:30:07 PM
What do you mean lose her powers? Thats complete crap. You just made that up. You have nothing to base that on. Quit making stuff up. Quit speculating to further your arguement. Now somebody is going to argue the opposite point to correct you and we'll have a day of posts argueing over complete made up bullshit. Shame on you!
Buffy the Slayer by ThingsThatTimDog	Dec 13th, 2002 02:59:50 PM
Actually I havent thought Buffy was truly the Slayer since she died. I think she is something different now, something maybe transcendent or greater than the average Slayer. But she is definitely not THE Slayer. Thats Faith.
Sarcasm is just lost on this board with you literal geeks. by Bari Umenema	Dec 13th, 2002 03:15:13 PM
Yes I was being sarcastic, I'm sure Hercules got it but not you two. You are the types who really would complain about not enough spoiler warnings in a talkback. Keep up the good work Herc!
The Buff by willowesque	Dec 13th, 2002 03:22:23 PM
Heres what I want to address, they went through a hugh climatic story line with Willow last season and now shes back and all were getting is info about Fantastico kitty? Where is this character going - whats your speculation!
A day of posts arguing over complete by 93curr	Dec 13th, 2002 03:23:14 PM
made up bullshit? Why, we can't have that! Heaven forfend that we waste our valuable time debating pointless minutiae from five years ago. Mayhap the debate could (should?) centre on more substantial things. Such as who's gonna get the primo parking spaces at the Mutant Enemy lot now that Firefly's DOA. For the record, though, neither Buffy nor the other SITs had access to the slayer power until after the previous one kicked the proverbial bucket. That's canon. Once said power has been passed, why would the deceased still have use for it? Ready, set, discuss!
If Firefly is cancelled... by sjanich	Dec 13th, 2002 03:32:19 PM
...UPN should pick it up and run it after Entrprise (a natural geek lead in for it). They will most likley need to reduce the budget of the show so that UPN doens't loose money money on it. They could also agressively market it overseas right away to get more current income. They can move the Twilight Zone to some other time.
Asmodeus, huh by Mojave	Dec 13th, 2002 03:43:40 PM
quote from Asmodeus :Not unless it's been diluted like crazy. That's beyond retarded. Um what exactly do you think holy water consists of? ... water maybe? As far as I know holy water is just water that has been prayed over. So that water would be diluted by ummmm... water. Seems like the bloody ocean could be holy water so long as you were catholic and believed.
valid point, 93curr by Randy Giles	Dec 13th, 2002 03:53:08 PM
You are speaking the truth here, my friend. There is no doubt. I'm not sure why Qwerty jumped on you that way. However, I think the supernatural force that fuels the slayer expects that, when the slayer dies, she will stay dead. I think the fact that Buffy came back (twice) just sort of mucked-up the process. She stumbled upon a loophole of sorts. I buy it. What do you think?
or, more accurately... by Randy Giles	Dec 13th, 2002 03:55:40 PM
the supernatural force that fuels the slayer works on the principle that, when the slayer dies, she stays dead. i don't want to personify said force by giving it the ability to anticipate. peace, and i'm out.
Mojave : Diluted Holy Water. by Asmodeus	Dec 13th, 2002 04:48:34 PM
Simply take one small bottle of Holy Water and pour it into the 1st's BIG ASS vampire/fish tank. Proceed to dunk vampire. Of course, this is still retarded. What's next, tying Buffy to a slowly moving conveyor belt that feeds into a wood chipper? Please. Furthermore, it would have to be like one teaspoon of Holy Water poured into one swiming pool of, uh, secular water unless Firsty wanted to off Spike immediately instead of "torture" him. The Buffyverse has already establised that it doesn't take much holy water to off a vampire. Whatever this dunkarama scene is, it's not Spike being submerged in holy water -- not unless it's been ridiculously diluted. Either way, it's asinine. What is this? Vampire Fear Factor?!?!
Spike by fireworks	Dec 13th, 2002 04:54:47 PM
is James Marsters really 40 years old?
Inquiring minds want to know by GypsyTRobot	Dec 13th, 2002 05:02:37 PM
what is JM's real age? And, sexual orientation? I don't have the link any more, but I've seen a photo of him that looked like an ad for a gay 900 number.
Holy Water by Randy Giles	Dec 13th, 2002 05:15:39 PM
Can you all drop this stupid ass holy water debate? I haven't seen anything this ridiculous on the boards since the completely retarded Alias vs. Run Lola Run debacle from episode 7.02 (you know, when everyone used the German title of Run Lola Run to show how worldly they are?)
ok, this is extremely stupid, but in Becoming II when spike chok by lisbett	Dec 13th, 2002 05:27:02 PM
I've always wondered how Spike could have sex with Buffy without a circulatory system. I would think that it would be rather hard to turn in a--ahem--manly performance, so to speak, without one. And how come Spike can smoke and pant, when Angel told Xander "You'll have to do it--I have no breath" when Buffy needed CPR at the end of Season One? All this pondering just goes to show how great BtVS is--I actually find myself wondering about it like it's real and supposed to make sense! Thank God Joss gave the thumbs-up to allow fanfic writers to play with all these fun little details. All hail Joss and crew!
Gypsy and Spikey, sittin' in a tree... by chickenmonkey	Dec 13th, 2002 06:24:14 PM
Call me if you need a photographer... **** Anyway, as far as the whole holy water thing goes, if I were the kind of person to posit theories (give excuses) on why certain rules are bent in the Whedonverse (a place where Connor tosses a vamp a CAR CIGARETTE LIGHTER and the vamp, upon catching it, EXPLODES), I'd say that since Spike has a soul, the holy stuff only stings a lot instead of kills. Take the naked-on-a-cross scene. Sure, he sizzled a bit, but he didn't scream or go flamey or nuthin. And speaking of going flamey, I'm sorry Gypsy, but I don't think Marsters bats for our team. But I'd be willing to start a rumor about D.B. Woodside, if you'd like... Woof.
And FYI by chickenmonkey	Dec 13th, 2002 06:41:03 PM
James Marsters was born August 20, 1969, which makes him as old as Jesus.
(a place where Connor tosses a vamp a CAR CIGARETTE LIGHTER and by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 13th, 2002 11:53:45 PM
Chickenmonkey, you forget that the vampire was doused in gas and in TV land, heat plus gas means explosion. And I wasn't seriously attacking 93curr, just hoping to provoke a ridiculous debate on just what exactly constitutes ridiculous debates.
Jesus was born in 72, by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 14th, 2002 02:09:25 AM
so being born in 69 makes him older than dirt.
MST3K was right by Maki Maus	Dec 14th, 2002 03:12:29 AM
You wonder how they eat and breathe, and other science facts; Think to yourself, 'it's just a show, I should really just relax.'
Another MST-ism by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 14th, 2002 03:16:29 AM
Is that Spike ina sunny window? Yes, it is. Example #642 that the producers of this show just don't care about "Vampire lore" And I aplaud them for it.
Some Ideas... and Big Burning Question by Helena	Dec 14th, 2002 07:59:58 AM
To Spike Fan: Let's hope Joss will make Buffy and Faith trade bodies again. He can get away with it: Faith dies (in Buffy's body), Gellar leaves, Dushku takes the baton as BUFFY! To bwstarwars: do you mean that holy water turns Spike into a human? Or some kind of super-being? In any case, that's really intriguing. And One Big Burning Question: has anybody noticed Spike in Istanbul in 7.01 Lessons? Was it really him behind the door SIT tried to enter? Or I am hallucinating? And if it was him, why was he a week ahead of the current timeline? He acquired that look towards the middle of 7.02 Beneath. Hey? Any ideas?
And, may the Emmy go to..... by Buff-Angel	Dec 14th, 2002 06:15:12 PM
James Marsters. If he gets passed up for an Emmy nomination this year, the folks in charge are sorely not doing their jobs. I know that Buffy has been passed up many times in the past, but geez, if 6 Feet Under gets a nod...Spike definitely should. He is doing an Awesome job this year. Shall we petition for it?
I kinda think Giles isn't dead but in hiding. by IdFuckAvril	Dec 14th, 2002 10:03:10 PM
And when he arrives to Sunnydale, it won't really be him. Nor will it be the First. I think the Giles-clone will be somebody else hiding as Giles for Giles' own protection.
Giles by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 14th, 2002 11:29:00 PM
I bet the real Giles is in a coma at the bottom of the ocean and the imposter is actually this cosmic entity called the Phoenix Force...
no SNL Algore talkback? by SmutGirl	Dec 15th, 2002 04:07:04 AM
Herc still away?
"Buffy" wildfeed by Maki Maus	Dec 15th, 2002 08:28:57 AM
I'll be seeing 7.10 tomorrow morning, but I don't do spoilers for general consumption. That's Herc's job. However, in Herc's justifiable if lamentable absence (shall we all hear a dirge ... ready ... set ... wwwwwaaaaaiiiiillll!!!!) if anyone has a question they just have to have answered before Tuesday night, you can let me know and I'll contact you through private email. According to "TV Tome", "Ripper" starts shooting in May of 2003, will premiere on BBC in September or October of that year, then come to UPN in early 2004.
Tara! by AmberTara	Dec 15th, 2002 04:30:19 PM
You guys, joss whedon talks outa his ass with the interview with BtVS mag. Hes said "i didnt think of political issues when i introduced tara and i didnt think about poilitcal issues when i killed of tara" he said he just thought it would be great in the willow evil_majic arc thingy, if that is so then why didnt they kill of Xander or...miss kitty cuz willow was an ADDICT they gotta realise that anything remotly negative would start her off, but it must of been an issue for Joss clearly or they wouldent of killed her.....God im so Pissed off they killed her, i know its a bit late to speak up now, but ive given up hope compleatly for buffy if there gonna kill of everyone they can lay there fingers on. what do you guys think? ps; Does anyone know when S7 airs in the uk cuz its December 15th already and usually advert would be all over the box now. Merry Xmas you guys. XxXxXxAmberTaraxXxXxX
In another talkback someone said that Joss said ..... by warlock411	Dec 15th, 2002 06:01:18 PM
that he first thought of this plot twist when OZ and Willow were a couple and that had Seth stayed on buffy it would have been OZ that was killed. In other words the death was thought of before Tara even existed. ............... If the person who first posted this is here maybe he/she could repost all that was said.
am I at the top or the bottom. by superfriend	Dec 15th, 2002 08:14:06 PM

ALIAS review/talkback? by mondoz2	Dec 15th, 2002 08:53:07 PM
Where's the Alias review?
herc is out of town by allnamesaretaken	Dec 15th, 2002 09:18:27 PM
no alias talkback.
Hmm by BuffyKat	Dec 15th, 2002 11:15:16 PM
Buffy this season has been good. But I think it probably peaked in seasons 2 and 3.
This post has little or nothing to do with Buffy, However... by fladnaG	Dec 16th, 2002 02:22:51 AM
I just wanted to say that I hate final exams. I really really do. I just needed to say that and to get it off my chest. I was ranting and raving like a lunatic a second ago but typing it out is rather relaxing. phew. Anyway, Buffy rocks and Giles isn't dead. At least I hope not.
what the? insightful people original on this board?? by 81666	Dec 16th, 2002 04:35:25 AM
who are you guys? why the fuck should we care what you think. you may have your points whoever you guys are but no one is green with envy over anything... you're just another tool using the keyboard... now go watch the show, snobs.
7.10 kicks serious butt by Maki Maus	Dec 16th, 2002 08:48:37 AM
And ASH is back! YAYYY! Probably the best fight scene I've seen in this series, ever; certainly the most wince-worthy, and Buffy's speech at the end is one for the books. Everyone is in top form, and there's such a sense of mystery and foreboding ... dang, that was good.
to AmberTara: by 93curr	Dec 16th, 2002 11:14:50 AM
Pissed at Tara's death? Hell, you bet! Who wasn't! Her absence from s7 is almost as bad as Giles's from s6. You should do what I did, though -get a new kitten and name it after you-know-who. It helps a little. I stomp around my apartment yelling "Tara!" almost as much as Ozzy shouts "Sharon!" Although I'd like to hold on to the illusion that the REAL Tara wouldn't piddle behind the television quite so much.
Gore, Gandalf on SNL and 007 SMG by GypsyTRobot	Dec 16th, 2002 11:32:46 AM
"Domo aragato Mr. Roboto" - he took off the android mask. Who knew, Gore is funnier than John McCain and some of the SNL regulars. "I just got out of a relationship with someone from the South and I'm looking for something new." Did we really need to see him topless in a hot tub though? And whatever happened to Tipper's previous incarnation as a music censor? In other related news, Ian McKellan is going to host SNL again. Oh and to make this Buffy related, um, I hear SMG wants to be the next 007. If a woman becomes Bond, will there be a succession of Bond boys? Will they have dumb, suggestive names like "Mike B. Long"? Will the opening credit sequence feature male silhouettes floating around? Oh, the possibilities.
Giles/Ripper by ZombieBunny	Dec 16th, 2002 12:39:19 PM
This may have been addressed further down....I'm too lazy to look... But, regarding the Giles/Ripper show: I thought it was supposed to be about Giles when he was younger. Hence the whole thing with it being called "Ripper"...since that was his nickname in his younger years. So Giles being dead now would really have no relevance...
"Ripper" by Maki Maus	Dec 16th, 2002 02:33:24 PM
As far as I've been able to tell, the "Ripper" series is not a flashback. "Ripper" is still his nickname, it's just that some not very nice people tend to use it. The series timeline is supposed to take up immediately after the "Buffy" series leaves off, as from Joss' first comments on it, one of the big conflicts is Giles' inability to get on with his life without the Slayer. As mentioned before, the series is supposed to start shooting in May, 2003, with British release later that year and American release early in 2004.
Everything You Know Is Wrong by Maki Maus	Dec 16th, 2002 03:57:25 PM
The Watchers' Council hasn't been destroyed. We saw them meeting, and we saw a building blow up, but we were only indirectly told that the one has anything to do with the other. Also, so far the only one who has said that the First can only impersonate the dead, is someone who may be an impersonation himself, so I'd put a little less credence in that. And somebody needs to do some serious killing on Andrew. That guy gets more nauseating every time he opens his mouth.
Buffy sucks balls! by earthsmoke	Dec 16th, 2002 06:21:26 PM
Who the hell would watch such a juvenile piece of crap as Buffy? The plot line is aimed at a 13 year old boy just hitting puberty
RESTLESS references, buffy big bad, slayer as the first by the_smite_key	Dec 16th, 2002 06:29:56 PM
"it's not like anything we've faced before" --> not only is this an EXACT duplicate of Giles's line in "the exposition song" from Restless (4x22) when he is TALKING ABOUT THE FIRST SLAYER, but it is so singled out and obvious that it is most definetly a reference to restless and to the first slayer. also the FIRST SLAYER'S MUSIC (that always played in the background when she was around), played at the 30:25 minute mark when Joyce talks to buffy. All these references mean to me that the first evil (to which these references that once referred to the first slayer now refer) and the first slayer are the same and that ME is aiming to make the slayer the big bad this time around (isn't the slayer made from the heart of the first ?). So, big bad buffy. P.S. : they did a great job with the beat-up-buffy makeup. Also, were they making fun of "Signs" with the trap-it-in-the-pantry reference ? P.P.S : having buffy say that the first would kill the SITs, then faith, then her (buffy) would indicate, as much as it sounds VERY stupid, that ME was trying to make buffy the most important because they are aiming to somehow make buffy the actual, activated slayer again (as in, her death can trigger a new slayer [dawn, for season 8])
Idiots in the pantry by Maki Maus	Dec 16th, 2002 07:15:22 PM
Earthsmoke ... I take it that you speak from personal experience.
earthsmoke by FatXander	Dec 16th, 2002 07:57:58 PM
note the "juvenile" crack from someone who uses the phrase "sucks balls" Irony?
And since when... by chickenmonkey	Dec 16th, 2002 08:11:38 PM
...is ball-sucking a bad thing, eh?
ball sucking is a bad thing... by fladnaG	Dec 16th, 2002 08:14:14 PM
...when she accidentally bites. OUCH!
Or when... by chickenmonkey	Dec 16th, 2002 08:19:36 PM
...you have to floss afterward.
or maybe when.... by fladnaG	Dec 16th, 2002 08:30:43 PM
...the dog stops licking and begins to chew. Hey don't look at me funny. Its ok because its your dog. This sounded so funny in my head. alas.
Also when... by chickenmonkey	Dec 16th, 2002 08:38:17 PM
...the hamster starts to wriggle.
Also also when... by chickenmonkey	Dec 16th, 2002 08:44:46 PM
...you taste backsplash (a.k.a. "The Poor Man's Bidet")
Also Also Also when... by chickenmonkey	Dec 16th, 2002 08:48:55 PM
...your Mom's trying to get them to drop. BAM! Just crossed a couple borders into the land of extraordinarily bad taste, on oh so many levels. Such evil.
wow, what by the_smite_key	Dec 16th, 2002 09:57:03 PM
a bunch of sick fucks. I like it ;) ;) --> smite
does she want to eat ? by the_smite_key	Dec 16th, 2002 09:59:38 PM
was anyone else AMAZED that they got away with the carpet munching joke ? SIT to willow : "I hope you don't hog the covers" + meaningful look + Willow gets wierded out. Dawn : "Do you think she wants to eat ?" + willow gasping. Dawn : "Macaroni". GIVE ME MORE ! I know I would like to eat. Yum Yum. mmmmmmmm. Stickily yours, --> smite
Sucking Balls and carpet munching by Entilzha Proph	Dec 16th, 2002 10:29:15 PM
clearly its a sign of the arival of the first :D
Questions , predictions and some spoilage by Expert	Dec 16th, 2002 11:56:37 PM
Hey posters I have a couple brain puzzles and a little spoilage. I don't know how many of you read the spoilers for Episode 13 but from what I've read, Spike is chained up in Buffy's basement because his chip is violently malfunctioning. She has to call Riley and her and Spike take a field trip down to the old initiative hangout. There Buffy has to make a decision whether she trust Spike or not. I'm guessing her delima is whether or not she should deactivate his chip. Or she may find out something troubling about Spikes true nature while rummaging through the old files. Tell me what you make of it, the possibilities are endless. On another note Faith definately dies this season activating one of the potential SIT's. No doubt she will go out like a warrior in some huge battle making amends for all her sins of the past(It will be one of the best Ep's ever). Im sure Kennedy will inherit her powers and become the next Slayer, since there toying with a relationship with her and Willow. Also another possibility is that Dawn also becomes Slayer, because Buffy dies(again) and she is made up of Buffy, so the Slayer gene is activated. This would give the show a spin off entitled "The Slayers". Also no one has touched on the possiblity that buffy may be killed by Spike(accidently of course)and she tells him she loves him with her last breath knowing hes not himself, as Casey perdicted. Once he realizes what he's done he kills himself leaving the two new slayers to go on a vengeful rampage wrapping things up. (Just a thought tell me what you think, I have others).
Giles DOES touch things... by Kelvington	Dec 17th, 2002 12:31:15 AM
Just to be clear, I watched it tonight and Giles DEFINATELY touches things, he leans, he sits and he rests on things. Not very ghost like. You could even make the argument that he touches his glasses to put them on and off. I think the best theory here so far is a protection spell. But they do seem to go out of their way here to make Giles seem a bit off. We'll wait and see. Just my 2
spike's bones don't show by the_smite_key	Dec 17th, 2002 12:37:54 AM
I've seen the ep. His bones don't show. He doesn't glow. starwars, wtf are you talking about. BTW : I didn't read the whole talkback, so sorry if this has been asked&answered already. --> smite
did I miss something? by punto	Dec 17th, 2002 01:00:03 AM
Did buffy meet The First in the episode before this one? She kept talking about how she fought him, but I don't remember that. She also said it 'nearly got Angel to kill himself'.. Did I miss an episode (a big one aparently), or was that a reference to something from previous seasons?
yep, you missed one by the_smite_key	Dec 17th, 2002 01:18:07 AM
season 3, ep 10 I think. called "amends" --> smite
?????? by Lexie	Dec 17th, 2002 01:45:46 AM
i am not happy with the experts theories. except for faith dying. that would be a plus. james marsters is 30 years old. and his scar is sexy!!! you people are full of useful info!!! so faith was the ONE slayer before buffy. does that mean buffy only became the actual slayer because they thought faith was dead because that kikistos guy killed her watcher???? just askin. please don't melt spike's sexy skin... i'm outie
Correction by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 17th, 2002 01:47:31 AM
Buffy came BEFORE Faith
sadness by Lexie	Dec 17th, 2002 01:54:17 AM
oh and i really don't like the idea of buffy and spike dying like that. c'mon, the show is tragic enough! no more drama! please...... it was sad enough that buffy had to kill angel in season 2. don't end like that!!!somebody really needs a happy ending. maybe spike could get ahold of one of those demons that turned angel human for that day and he could become human! buffy could pass the torch to sis and company and they could leave town happily ever after! yes i am dilerious.
buffy came before faith by Lexie	Dec 17th, 2002 01:57:44 AM
that doesn't make sense. kendra came because buffy died. ok never mind. faith came because kendra died, right? sorry buffyverse can be mind-boggling at times.
Lexie,get the seasons 1,2,and 3 dvd's please! by allnamesaretaken	Dec 17th, 2002 02:19:52 AM
Buffy died in the season 1 finale and was revived by Xander,at that moment Kendra was called,Buffy was no longer in the slayer loop(HER DEATH CAN'T BRING A NEW SLAYER)Kendra was killed in Becoming part 1 in season 2,then her death called Faith. Though,based from some episodes it can be interpreted that Faith is older than Buffy in age.
Faith's age, and SMG's departure by Entilzha Proph	Dec 17th, 2002 03:06:18 AM
k, I've always been under the impression that Faith is older than Buffy - not necassarily by a whole lot, but definatly older. Do we have any info on that? Also, I hate to be an annoying one her - whats the 411 on Faith being Bi? I mean, yea we all know she has a libedo that rivals Xev's on Lexx, but I've never gotten the impression she goes both ways - someone wanna enlighten me? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - As far as Buffy leaving the show, I can't see Joss outright killing her off, for a whole variety of reasons. However, neither can I see her leaving the show like Oz or Angel (ok, not exactly like those to, but you get the general idea). So my guess is assuming SMG leaves after this season, we may see Buffy do what Cordy did at the end of S3 on Angel - some sort of ascension kinda thing. Hell, maybe she'll get Cordy's old job :)
faith & buffy by lottie276	Dec 17th, 2002 05:21:21 AM
as far as I can tell in s3 there are comments that sound like, when kakistos killed Faith's watcher it was her crucimentum-thing, like when Giles gave her that stuff to get rid of her slayer powers on her 18th birthday. This shows that Faith had hers in the summer before she came to see Buffy so she is older but not by much, a couple of months or something. I think the plot with the slayers in waiting sounds like the btvs book 'pretty maids all in a row' anyone else think that? anyone know how much $ smg has been offered to make s8?
bwstarwars = BANNED.... HOTPANTS = Good. by Gellar's Ass	Dec 17th, 2002 08:57:09 AM
Congratulations for being so annoying that I actually took the time to write a Proxomitron filter just for you. Now all your idotic jabber automatically gets turned into Inviso-text so I never have to read your crap again... not even on accident.
Say What? by Maki Maus	Dec 17th, 2002 09:11:06 AM
Cordy didn't have a job. The only thing she evidently got to do up there was her nails over and over.
posters are funny by Greener44	Dec 17th, 2002 12:06:31 PM
i've got to hand it to everyone on this board. You give me a good laugh. Kudos to Querty whose fat jokes never grown tiresome and to all those people who just can't stop insulting bwstarwars. Well onto the ep. Only caught a bit of it. It was on twice last night too what kind of fan am I. If SMG leaves the show and Dawn the vampire slayer is next. It will be cancelled faster than Birds of prey and slower than Girls club. No offense to Michelle T but she's not headline a major tv show material. She just misses something. Xander is so fat when his beeper goes off people thinks he's walking backwards. He reminds me how on Seinfeld how George was skinny for the first few seasons then just balloned when the show got hot. Is Giles alive? I think that if this is the last season if Buffy goes, so does Giles. They started this show, they'll end it. Let's say Buffy dies or goes into hiding and Faith bites the big one, who would you choose to star in the spinoff instead of M.T? I have to go with Ashley Scott. She can definately hold her own on the screen. The scripts for Birds just sucked so I would like to see how she would do as a slayer. Either than or a hot girl with an english or austrailian accent. MMMMM...accent.
if faith is killed off to call a new slayer by allnamesaretaken	Dec 17th, 2002 12:18:40 PM
more than likely it'll be kennedy(dawn is the fake out,she won't be chosen) hell Kennedy already looks like a Faith rip off in terms of attitude and they aren't setting up her ship with Willow for nothing!
Triumph the Dog by allnamesaretaken	Dec 17th, 2002 12:27:57 PM
herc is out of town so we'll have to make due with this TB after the episode airs tonight.
giles dead? by cooper2000	Dec 17th, 2002 02:01:59 PM
If Giles was killed without any good death scene and goodbyes, thats really crappy. Thats a sure way to lose a lot of people. Thought I think this season is better than last. Time to end while they are a head.
I demand 24 spoilers, Herc. by Stile	Dec 17th, 2002 02:29:22 PM
Bloop Bleep Bloop Bleep
Greener44 why don't you think by Entilzha Proph	Dec 17th, 2002 04:07:25 PM
MT is "headliner" material?
Huhj???? by Entilzha Proph	Dec 17th, 2002 04:12:32 PM
I thought Animated Buffy was canceled. Is it uncanceled? Am I thinking of something else???
WE WANT OUR 24 REVIEW by OGREISHERE	Dec 17th, 2002 05:17:01 PM
WAKE UP HERC AND GIVE IT TO US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!
Who's the Slayer? by Maki Maus	Dec 17th, 2002 07:35:55 PM
Buffy "died" and Kendra was called. Kendra was over-structured and over-trained and rather quickly bit the big one. Whereby Faith was called. Unfortunately, being somewhat psychotic rather interfered with Faith's ability to perform her duties properly, and landed her in stir. Faith may be the official "Slayer", but it's evidently Buffy who still possesses the actual strengths, both physical and ethical, of the First Slayer. At any rate, her name's on the front of the show, that makes her the Slayer in my book.
Clarification to all the nonsense by Expert	Dec 17th, 2002 07:46:53 PM
Buffy was nearly killed(legally dead) and the powers that be activated Kendra. When Kendra was killed by Drusilla Faith was activated. Because there are SIT's this proves that these things are predetermined by the powers that be. Buffy is a special case because she didn't completely die, but was dead enough to cause the powers that be to activate a new Slayer. Buffy is no longer in the slayer lineage line, if Faith dies a new slayer is activated. Buffy is a glitch in the cosmic system, making her special(END OF DISCUSSION) Questions/Comments
Chinese Water TORTURE. by dorfer	Dec 17th, 2002 07:52:10 PM
Not death. There's no way in hell that Chinese Water Torture would kill in such a ridiculous manner, poopeater. Besides, the victim would probably die of dehydration long before his/her head turned to mush. And I don't think the slayer has infinite power. She still gets her ass kicked every season. Shit, she was staked by a run-of-the-mill vampire in S5. --d
Ripper series by Hann1bal	Dec 17th, 2002 08:04:15 PM
last thing i read about the Giles spin off from the BBC was that it was going to be made next year & possibly screen in the UK by the end of the year. so unless Giles is going to be a ghost, helping solve crimes & other such stuff (done to death on tv already) I dont think he can be dead. of course, if he isn't dead, the explanation on how he is suddenly axe-proof is going to be interesting....
Tonight's Buffy (SPOILERS) by dorfer	Dec 17th, 2002 09:03:27 PM
Kinda. Good fight scenes, I thought. So sick of Willow's "unable to use my magic" arc. If the enemy is this powerful, what's the harm in letting ol' Red go off for a bit? And how was Joyce able to touch Buffy's arm? Hmmm.....
what the heck was that???? by Freak_of_nature	Dec 17th, 2002 09:05:03 PM
ok, what was that?? cool episode, but where was the waving american flag during the "we daclared war" speech and the patriotic music??? Willow's out of control thing got me all sad, but whatever. and am i just imagining it, or was one of the potentials totally flirting with Willow??? oh, one last thing: i loved the trying to wake andrew up thing with dawn and anya.
Yeah, can we get NEW Slayers In Training?!! by Drath	Dec 17th, 2002 09:13:12 PM
Because it was practically tattooed on their faces which one would die first, second, and third(assuming all three die, if one lives it'll be the bitchy one). I expected the nice one to die from the instant she spoke! These writers KNOW what they're doing, but that's the kind of thing that drives you nuts even if it was intentional!! And can't we have some international Slayers in Training? Can't we have a Peruvian Slayer-to-be, and a Malaysian Slayer-to-be, and a South African Slayer-to-be, and on and on? Not that nationality is the same as character, but I was hoping we'd see our first real kick of international slayers, a sense that this is really a global phenomenon. Maybe the two were English so that no one would think anything of the nationality/ethnicity of the first one to die. ************* I'm really sorry the Uber vamps are just dumb monsters. Come ON Joss, make the vampires intelligent, dammit! ********** I still really like Principle Wood, and I'm really hoping he'll work as a love interest soon--how much time is left, we're half way through the last season. If that new slayer series starts, he'd be a good perennial Giles-like figure, but only if he's used a lot now. ************ As a long time fan, I just can't accept the idea that Giles is really dead. That would be the most unforgivable act on Joss's part, I can't see it NOT alienating me and nearly every other Buffy fan out there. I don't think even a fan-favorite-killing cuss like Joss is willing to do that, but you never can tell. Anyway, is it possible Giles IS dead, but has manifested as some kind of ghost? I wouldn't buy it unless they did it, but I think his not touching people is going to be important even if he's not First Evil. Maybe they killed the obviously bullseyed Slayer to Be in order to imply that they WILL do the obvious and predictable on occasion.
Annoying.... by Buff-Angel	Dec 17th, 2002 09:17:31 PM
Did you notice that after Buffy had the shit beat out of her, her face hammered to a bloody pulp, she still looked beautiful at the end of the show, and apparently wasn't even wearing any makeup. BITCH!
Giles, touching and shadows... by dp4m	Dec 17th, 2002 09:30:38 PM
... I'm still not sold on Giles not being dead (I didn't see him touch anyone ELSE just things) but he at least cast a shadow. Did anyone see if Joyce did when she was around?
No one's saying Buffy's not a Slayer by Drath	Dec 17th, 2002 09:31:40 PM
She's just out of the Slayer's-death-calls-another deal because she's already died once. I don't think the Slayer powers have been affected by Buffy's presence. One would assume that ordinarily, the Watchers would have had Faith assassinated by now so another more moldable Slayer could be called. But who knows. Maybe if Buffy had not been there Faith wouldn't have gone bad to begin with. Or maybe the world would be a living hell several times over by now. What WOULD a battle between the Ascended Mayor, the Master and the Hell Mouth, and Glorificus over who would gets to swallow the world have been like anyway? Probably just annoying like those FIRST talkbackers.
Already looking forward to the next episode. by mrfan	Dec 17th, 2002 09:42:39 PM
Tonights show was not that bad. So many questions so little answers. I guess we will have to wait.
Giles was leaning on stuff-it's a fake, holywater? Is it Harbin by Anyawatcher	Dec 17th, 2002 09:50:24 PM
If the First Evil wanted All the records gone why hand deliver them to Buffy? Why bring the Slayers in Training to Buffy? The supposed fake Giles could have just led the SiT to their death and then went to Buffy by himself. Like someone said it was a fake out. What is this Holy Water shit. Spike would have no face. Did the FE go to church and carry the water to the pit? Didn't the first Evil as Spike call these guys his harbingers. Where did this Bringers shit come from?
Principal Puck by Regenhund	Dec 17th, 2002 09:51:35 PM
Has any one considered that maybe the Principal is Dawn's watcher? He may have been sent there by the watcher's council and doesn't yet know of the big badda boom. Oh, and they may not be able to kill spike by drowning him, but they could probably still torture him (sure, vamps don't have to breathe, but maybe they still like to?) Or maybe I'm just talking out of my ass... **** Firefly: Rust in Peace (Damn those FOX morons)
Buffy is the Ultimate Big Bad? by IdFuckAvril	Dec 17th, 2002 09:55:05 PM
The First could be the red herring Big Bad for this season. Or, here's an even better possibility: The First's ultimate plan could be to possess Buffy. Notice how Buffy has been wearing a lot of black lately. And notice the words that she spoke toward the end of the episode. Joyce in her dreams could be representing Buffy's subconscious telling her that she and The First are one and the same.
Two plausible theories about Giles: by IdFuckAvril	Dec 17th, 2002 10:00:48 PM

The Jack Bauer Power Hour= 5 STARS!!! by BLADE	Dec 17th, 2002 10:03:54 PM
No 24 Talkback sux. But mother puss bucket that was some good shit tonight!!!!! Sherri Palmer-Nina and the Gift Card-Kate getting Jumped- God damn!
Sarah Michelle Gellar is Awesome! by NYC	Dec 17th, 2002 10:03:55 PM
I always knew she was a fierce actress ever since All My Children(Shut up, I know, but she was hot, I had to watch) and she still proves to be such a powerful performer. She doesn't need an Emmy but I am still dumbstruck how that retarded Alias and it's pathetic, weak and quite ugly and horsefaced lead actress jennifer garner can get a nod. She sucks. Sarah rules and she can have a major Hollywood career, she should just dump the crappy Scooby movies.
Two plausible theories about Giles: by IdFuckAvril	Dec 17th, 2002 10:05:08 PM
1) He's near-death and in a coma back in England. What we are seeing is an astral projection of himself. Giles will only be able to maintain this visage of himself for a limited time (for the remainder of this season). 2) "Giles" is actually somebody else, but it's not The First or a minion of The First in disguise. The real Giles, in turn, is in disguise as somebody else -- probably one of the SITs who will arrive in the next episodes. (Remember that last season Jonathan made himself look like Warren's ex girlfriend, so this is something that's possible/doable within the Buffyverse.)
Giles died-mentioned in season 2 ep. by Mike K	Dec 17th, 2002 10:09:29 PM
Does anyopn remember the episode in season 2, the one in which Giles mentioned his wild phase (as The Ripper)? He and Ethan Rayne and group did something involving causing your own death, and then being revived, causing, as Giles said, an "incredible rush". Thus, he did die in the past, and can be presented by the first, while he is alive somewhere else. In support of this theory, Giles (The First) told Buffy to go to sleep, as Joyce (The First) kept telling her to do, which would explain his purpose in being there. But despite all of this, as a friend said, JW is too clever to be second guessed, and the answer will suprise us all.
Giles Touching... by badtouch	Dec 17th, 2002 10:20:54 PM
Sorry, that sounded like Giles did something to me that's illegal in 49 of the 50 states (there's always wacky ol' vermont). Anyway, about the argument that Giles put on his glasses so he can't be the first, wouldn't all the first's manifestations be completely naked then? And yeah, maybe he isn't dead, but it was obvious that we aren't just speculating... they did go out of their way to keep him from touching anything. Since when would him and buffy not hug when she sees him for the first time after months? And why wouldn't he help her out of the hole when she was trying to climb out? ME definetely has something up their sleeves...
spewing random bullshit by daffyclan	Dec 17th, 2002 10:36:01 PM
Principal: I'm probably the only person here who thinks this, but based on his comments about seeing true evil and you're never the same again, and likinig mysteries because you get to dig down and find out what's below, I'm willing to bet that he's actually the Big Good. Mr. I-Know-All-The-Answers-But-I-D on't-Know-Who-To-Give-Them-To- Yet. He's pretty much there to sit on his ass, monitor the situation, and dole out morsels of saving the worldiness when he feels it's finally necessary and he knows who to tell. And it ain't gonna be Buffy. Dawn, maybe. Or Willow. Here's a silly thing: Anyone else think the episode in season 6 where Buffy goes all crazy and tries to kill everyone might have been the first attempt by the First to wreak havoc in Sunnydale? Hell, if you get a Slayer to do your evil bidding, who can stop you? And that didn't work and Spike gave them another opening. I know no one's going to read this, but I needed to discuss it with someone, even if it is just a nameless computer screen.
The most eventful '24' in weeks ... by Groovy_Chainsaw	Dec 17th, 2002 10:38:47 PM
...and you don't even give us a space where we can provide our own comments. And we thought you loved us !
Is Buffy afraid to go to sleep? by GPL Racer	Dec 17th, 2002 11:05:02 PM
Joyce can touch Buffy because Buffy is dreaming both time she sees her mother. You can't use that to rule the First in or out as Joyce. The larger point is that Buffy seems almost afraid to go to sleep. It reminds me of Jamethiel's brother Torisen in the books by P.C.Hodgell. He had prophetic dreams too. But when he could feel a prophetic dream coming he would avoid sleep as long as possible. So, how bad is the dream going to be when Buffy finally does sleep?
drath by narky	Dec 17th, 2002 11:15:13 PM
there were no foreign slayers because giles just picked up who was handy. two brits and a southern californian. he said the others were coming, he just didn't have time to pick them up.
Let's Fix Some BS by DarkZero	Dec 17th, 2002 11:53:06 PM
I thought I'd chime in to fix some of the BS in this talkback and maybe make for a better conversation overall. Maybe answer some questions, too. ---- The First taking the form of the dead: Folks, we've gone over this before. In every talkback, there's been about three people clarifying it, and here it is again. The First Evil can take the form of people that HAVE BEEN deceased. How do we know this? Because there's a pattern. Whenever the FE takes the form of someone that isn't dead, it's always the form of someone that has been dead for a short time or is a walking corpse, such as Buffy, Spike, and Drusilla. ----- Giles: Sitting in chairs and resting on things does not count as "touching". If those counted, then Drusilla "touching" the ground by standing on it would count and that would mean that she would be the real Drusilla, Warren would be the real Warren, etc. As far as I saw, Giles has yet to actually exert physical influence on something, such as picking up an object, touching a person, etc. He also didn't help Buffy out of the hole and looked really uncomfortable when she was closing a door and it nearly touched him, so obviously there's something wrong with him. Either he's the First Evil, or one of Giles' magic tricks, or something, but it looks like he's definitely not the actual Giles. Then again, the Buffy writers suddenly started caring about continuity again when this season started and the fact that Giles may have been temporarily dead as a college student could mean that the FE is taking Giles' form, but Giles is alive. ----- Slayers-in-Training: No international slayers? WTF? Did UPN cut part of a scene out of the wildfeed or did that many people really miss Giles saying "more will be coming" after introducing THE BRITISH SLAYERS-IN-TRAINING?!?! All three girls are British, all three girls are just the ones that he could round up in the UK, and he said that "more would be coming", presumably from other countries (since all the ones that he brought were from the country that he came from). I'm surprised that no one mentioned this because this is actually one of the best pieces of "evidence" (unless it's a fake-out) for Giles actually being the First Evil. He's gathering all of the slayers-in-training into one place, allowing the forces that the FE is gathering to fight Buffy to pick off slayers-in-training along the way, just like the UberVamp did tonight. ---- Buffy: This is just my personal thing, but I'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet. The UberVamp, a vicious, bloodthirsty monster incapable of speech or, it would seem, intelligent thought, just ignores Buffy when she's down and doesn't drain her? WHY?! Does the First Evil have some Saturday Morning Cartoon Villain hangup about winning and getting everything that it wants? Killing Buffy won't have any more negative effect on the FE than killing a slayer-in-training, because killing Buffy won't create a new slayer. Not killing her was just stupid and I'm sure we'll see some half-assed explanation in the first act of the next episode about how the UberVamp was full from snacking on the slayer-in-training or something.
The real Giles please stand up by 2	Dec 18th, 2002 12:25:45 AM
Man, everyone sure did poo-poo my post when I first said that Giles was really dead...but there's an awful lot of converts now that we see there weren't any hugs all around, huh? Hmm...Maybe I should write for this show?... Oh well, guess I'm a few seasons too late for that... (I'm in general agreement that it is a sad way to see ASH/Giles return to the show, and a lame way to bid him farewell...but I'm still hopefully Joss can pull something out of his bag of brilliant tricks and blow my mind for the finale.)
Anya's glasses and Dawn's HOTPA... whatever. by Gellar's Ass	Dec 18th, 2002 12:34:47 AM
Are Anya's glasses new? I don't remember seeing them before. In any case, Anya with glasses is freaking hot. ** These current episodes do demand careful scrutiny (e.g., did Giles touch anything, etc.), but they also require the writers to be extra wary of continuity errors. I don't want to spend all season looking for clues only to see them throw it all out the window with an "a wizard did it" moment. Dawn needs more stuff to do. Wasn't expecting to say that. Maybe it's just because she's filling out so nicely. So who dies next week? My money is on the British Slayer in Training not named after a former MTV VJ. Ubervamp was nowhere as cool as his whole raising made him out to be. Apparently he's just another dumb kung-fu lackey who doesn't finish off Buffy when he has the chance and then gets himself killed a few episodes later. He only happened to be staying in primo Evil real estate by coincidence. ** The crap with Spike and the water was stupid. Let us never speak of it again.
My Theory About the First by Stev	Dec 18th, 2002 12:43:17 AM
The First Evil is not so much an insigator of evil as a maintainer of balance. In the JudeoChristian sense, death is a consequence of man's disobedience. Perhaps the FE works in a similar way in Bufffy universe to prevent the world from becoming too good, but not completely destroying it either. In Sunnydale, prior to Buffy, the presence of evil was muted. The Master's first attempt to open the Hellmouth was thwarted by an earthquake, and so forth. That is why the world did not end before Buffy's presence there. Cordelia's wish took for granted the events that occurred, just not Buffy's presence. That is why Buffy shows up there (not just because Giles called for her), to restore balance. Buffy balanced the ledger sheet between good and evil at first in Sunydale. The problem was her friends either saved her life or helped her do what she might not ordinarely do on her on, and they tipped the balance sheet too far in the favor of good. In this way, all the major threats acted as minions of the FE, though not in a direct sense (we know the first evil influencess people through deception). The menaces were more and more adverse, yet Buffy prevailed time and again because of her unique band of Scobies. The "shallow cuts" guy was probably an agent of the first evil. That is why he said "this should be interesting" when Buffy approached him and gave up no fight. The reaction had started and three things would be possible: 1) Dawn dies and Buffy quits (like she said she would), 2) Buffy dies and balance is restored, (in those 2, good goes down and evil remains constant) or 3) evil reigns on earth while Buffy continues to be the slayer (evil goes up while good stays the same). Any of those things would restore balance, except that Buffy's friends, again, brought her back to life, unsettling things. When Cassidy visited Willow, she mentioned she was tired of worrying about the balance between good and evil. Perhaps the first wants to destroy the slayer lineage so it can stop producing evil to the extent that it has had to. If this is the case, then maybe Buffy must give up her powers to "win." Since the first can't really be defeated, then maybe it can be bartered with. In that case, perhaps Buffy picks out of the three (including dawn) possible slayers (to make Joyce's prophecy come true), or maybe the slayers are no more (until Fray). This theory explains numerous things. First, it shows how the world survived before Buffy, Willow, Giles, and Xander. Next, it shows why the original slayer did not want Buffy to have friends in the season finale of season 4. It knew the slayer was meant to only bring balance to the world, and not "win the war." Also, it explains why the FE brought Angel back. Until then, he came the closest to getting to Buffy. She quit for several months after killing him. Even if she killed him again, the suffering could very well cause her to hang her hat up forever. BTW, a cool followup after Buffy would be a Fray series 20-30 or so years in the future instead of 600 years in the future. That way, production costs wouldn't be so high (not so many special effects like in Firefly), and we could see some old characters like Spike and an old Xander. Maybe Xander could be her watcher (hey they'll be in need after this season, and he'll be Giles' age by then) and Spike could be the initial love interest, like Angel. There are some interesting conflicts here already. Both these actors are already signed up for an additional season. I think a lot of the reason Angel was so successful was because of the familiarity of at least of few repeating characters, so this series already has an audience. The only thing they need to watch out for is to retread on old Buffy storylines. Make the series about rebuilding the slayer stuff after years of no slayers, of how Xander must overcome his memories of Buffy (who should be dead) to train a completely different slayer (maybe more timid or something to differeniate her from Buffy), how Spike looks to her to replace Buffy, but she always comes up short in his eyes, and how this slayer must coop in the shadow of a slayer everyone says is successful, even though she clearly wasn't. Maybe include something about how it was a bad deal Buffy made with FE and that evil returned shortly after her death (of brain cancer or something), so that the world worse of for her presence despite her galantry.
Some observations... by ianiiixvi	Dec 18th, 2002 01:10:44 AM
Hi all. Don't really post all that much but thought I'd throw in my 2 cents - 3.127 cents Canadian. Regarding Giles. Yes, as someone posted earlier he does say that other slayers are enroute. He does touch a wall and a counter when he leans against/on them. Does that count as touching? When the Nearndervamp comes out of the hole to chase Buff the sun is coming up behind Giles. The Neandervamp is repelled NOT by the sun (well, initially) but ultimately by G hisself cloaked in a most interesting "glow" that obscures him. Sooo, what does that make him? hmmm? Perhaps the First Good as somebody alluded to earlier? On a related note if you have had the opportunity to peruse the New Testament of the Christian bible (John 20:17) you'll note that after the resurrection Jesus appears to Mary Magdalene but at one point he advises one of the women who attempts to hug (touch) him not to "hold onto me as I have not yet returned to the Father". Granted I may be reaching for that one but perhaps JW is cribbing a bit from the #1 bestseller of all time. So, maybe G is dead, ressurected and ....hmmm. Christ figure. Interesting. Anyone? On to other points. During the fight in the warehouse/factory how about that T2 score underpinning the Neandervamps exit from the pile of piping? hehe. Oh and finally, I seem to recall something about vamps being unable to cross running water. All of this due to the vampire legend stemming from the time of the plague or somesuch and running water was a purifier of sorts. (If I'm incorrect on that please feel free to comment) Once again I may be stretching that thing about the water to make it fit what they're doing to Spike but... Why not? Until next time... Have a Merry Freakin' Christmas.
Wow. What a talkback by Cory849	Dec 18th, 2002 01:19:34 AM
This is the worst Buffy talkback I have ever read. It's like all these parents of special ed kids went out to the Swinger's Club to sleep with each other and left the kids with access to the TV and the computer. I really would have thought that by now in the run of the Buffy TV series newbies asking dumb questions would have been weeded out. Apparently not. Also, I would have thought that some people would realise answers to their questions while typing and realise they didnt need to post after all. I'm not actually trying to be petty and I'm not usually one for flaming but this time. wow. Ok. Lessons: 1. The First can only impersonate the dead, the undead, and the used to be dead. Take it to the bank. I wish I had the power to have it never be contested again.sigh. 2. "was that reference to the pantry a signs reference?" I know this doesnt matter but Dude - Xander referenced Shyamalan in THE NEXT LINE. So the answer is yes, but the lesson is you need to work on your powers of observation before posting anymore theories about anything. 3. Buffy. then Kendra. then Faith. That is the order. Caused by Buffy's first death. then Kendra's only death. Next slayer happens upon Faith's death. Again - never let it be spoken of again. 4. Giles is either dead or he isnt. No one knows anything else so theories based on some logical analysis are just pure speculation. You dont have enough information to think so stop it and enjoy the ride. But would Joss kill Giles in the last season for dramatic effect? How does "in a heartbeat" grab you. Read his interviews. Also might want to point out that the only reason we are having this discussion is because of a leaked script that we werent supposed to know about that told Giles not to touch anything. My bet would be that he's dead but only the Whedon and the Noxon know for sure. If they want him alive they can just say that he had his witch coven cast some invulnerability spell on him before he went looking for dead watchers and the axe bounced off. ah magic. It makes for great Deus Ex Machina. Better than Dylithium crystals and a warp core. 5. Eliza Dushku just starred in a Robert Deniro movie. She wants to rock the feature films and win an oscar. Career on the way up. I've said this before but I'll say it again. No Faith spinoff. She's coming on to die so that Joss can have a brand new slayer with an actress that costs a lot less. (Incidentally, while I'm on about THIS point - why do you people seem to think actors are all sitting on shelves waiting to be plucked up and put in the roles you want to see them in. All sorts of considerations go into whether an actor can or will play a particular role including - among other things - what they are already scheduled to act in. For instance Sarah Michelle Gellar wants to leave because she cannot shoot lots and lots of projects because she is already busy shooting lots and lots of episodes 6. Cut the poor bastards a LITTLE slack. When they say "it's like nothing we've ever faced before" the second time ITs probably just because its true twice. The producers put a lot of thought into finding a way to introduce the most evil thing ever every year. Calling into question little stretches and bends to make this happen in a show you otherwise love is...I don't know...kinda just bad manners. It's weeny. OK. that's enough for now I guess. ciao.
where's giles hand? by mochamix	Dec 18th, 2002 01:20:55 AM
I was wondering why giles kept hiding his hand.Do you think he might have gotten it hacked off. Maybe they'll give him a chainsaw to stick on the stub.
they chopped his hand off by mochamix	Dec 18th, 2002 01:31:23 AM
It's way to obvious, the whole giles is dead thing.His right hand was constantly hidden.I think he got it whacked off defending himself from the axe blow.That's why he doesn't touch anything. Plus he's probably in a lot of pain
I've got it...maybe... by mochamix	Dec 18th, 2002 01:53:53 AM
Aren't the slayer and the first somehow connected?Maybe if the first kills the slayer it to will vanish,maybe it just wants to bring buffy over to the darkside,and then destroy all the other slayers so that there's only evil left.Then maybe the slayers in training find a way to ward off there callingor they all die.Then maybe faith sacrifices her life as the last remaining slayer to rid the evil forever,like Jesus.
God, by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 18th, 2002 02:08:50 AM
Lets hope not...
"sacrifices herself to rid the world of evil forever, like Jesus by Tiffany Case	Dec 18th, 2002 02:12:37 AM
Yeah, bang up job there, JC I think it makes sense to kill Faith - but only for a few secs. Have Willow standing by with the magic (or a defibrillator, whatever), and make sure the next slayer is called. Then kill her. Repeat. Get lots of slayers Makes much more sense than trying to make an army out of regular teenage girls, no matter how much 'battle training' they've had.
Theories by Expert	Dec 18th, 2002 02:21:24 AM
Mochamix is correct, the slayers and the first are connected like ying and yang. Remember what buffy's mother said in the episode tonight, "you cant defeat it its a part of all of us". This is true there is no way to defeat evil, only come to terms with it, or ward it off. The slayers role is to maitain the balance so that niether side can win. Evil exist only because there is good, to destroy all good would destroy evil aswell. This is what, in the end will be Buffy's weapon. On another note Buffy's mother is definatly NOT the first but REALLY Joyce. She tries to explain this theory to Buffy to help her in her battle. She tells her she cant defeat evil or stop the night. Some may see this as the first playing tricks, but I see it as Joyce trying to give Buffy strategies on how to maitain the balance. If this is true Buffy may go evil, because remember when Joyce told Dawn, "in the end she will not choose you" meaning she will not choose good(meaning Spike probably vamps her out, which I know is unlikely) or it could mean in the end she has to give up her powers to restore balance, and she does not choose Dawn to have them, because she knows its a huge burden. (Remeber these are just theories not Expert opinions which are 99.9 percent of the time accurate)Questions/Comments
I can tell my presence is needed here.. by Thalya	Dec 18th, 2002 02:39:43 AM
Ok folks, some stuff to consider. 1st Slayer, 1st Evil, related? Um, remember Restless and BvD. Buffy's power is rooted in darkness and the fact of the matter is she's barely tapped into that power in her struggle to stay in the Light. Furthermore, the power of Evil and Darkness is specifically rooted in death (any objections?). Evil is rooted in the World, in Earth, that's where magic's power comes from, that's where Willow gets her energy to heal herself in STSP, that's why the manifestation of the 1st Evil cries out "You only make me stronger" when she does the locator spell in tonight's ep. That Buffy died, remember in Prophecy Girl after she was revived she mentioned she felt different (stronger? forget exact quote) and only then she was able to defeat the Master, perhaps because she was now on his level because they had both died and come back? Just imagine Buffy's connection to the 1st Evil now that she's died even more and been BURIED (as in, put in the Earth, you know, the thing that has its teeth with the Hellmouth?). As this show has shown us, death is easy, life is hard. Evil is easy, Good is fighting, controlling yourself, having a conscience.
two things by Darth Lechon	Dec 18th, 2002 02:51:14 AM
One of the things I know has been touched on in this TB, so I'll keep that one brief. The other, I'm not so sure about, since I skipped all the posts not originating on the 17th. It's this whole thing about me not going insane trying to follow the threads. Okay, 1) I think we've found Willow's new love interest for the season. Yeah, she's a little young, but I don't think Will (or the audience for that matter) will mind. 2) This isn't an explanation for whatever Giles' current condition is, but its an piece of evidence that everyone seems to have forgotten or overlooked. Back in the season 5 episode "Tough Love" (the one where Tara gets brain sucked) there's a part in the magic shop where Giles Anya and Willow catch one of Glory's minions. The minion refuses to speak about anything and Giles tells the girls to get some rope to tie him up. As they turn away, the minion suddenly shrieks and starts talking. For those of you with this ep on tape, listen closely. As the girls turn away and start walking, there is a sound similar to the one they use for the vamp transformations. The girls turn and ask Giles what happened, and Giles says he changed his mind. So what happened? What did Giles do in the span of a second to make this tight-lipped minion start talking? And what was that noise? Just a loose end we might want to think about.
One More Thing by DarkZero	Dec 18th, 2002 03:06:35 AM
I already griped about the UberVamp not killing Buffy, but there was one other thing I noticed in that fight that bothered me. What kind of moronic slayer runs into a construction site, lingers near a circular saw (possibly two, I couldn't decide from the camera angles), then runs PAST the circular saw and tries to drop some frickin' PIPES on her enemy? She could've tried cutting his head off or maybe just limbs off with the circular saw, but concussive attacks never do anything to vampires in this show. You would think that in her seventh season, Buffy would be somewhat resourceful... or at least the writers would be.
Bye bye, Giles by Ged	Dec 18th, 2002 03:25:33 AM
He's dead, folks. I don't like it, but let's review the evidence. 1. When last we saw Giles, a large axe was getting ready to dance on the back of his head. 2. When he appeared in Sunnydale with the slayer wannabes, he didn't touch anything or anyone. 3.

Talkbacks

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