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Whedon-Directed FIREFLY!!

No power in the verse can stop me! by superfriend	Dec 12th, 2002 03:30:45 AM
Fox, keep this show its just starting to get good.
YO DA MAN by el oso	Dec 12th, 2002 04:17:55 AM
this show rocks.
you cant take the sky from me by cornstalkwalker	Dec 12th, 2002 04:19:41 AM
Man I hope this show lasts. I never really watched buffy or angel but I really like Firefly. I certainly believe this show has a lot of potential.
Firefly is fantastic by onetrueking	Dec 12th, 2002 05:09:25 AM
God, I hope this show survives. Absolutely fantastic story telling. I can't get enough of Joss Whedon.
River is annoying as shit, but she is intriquing by Tall_Boy	Dec 12th, 2002 05:54:06 AM
the last two episodes were pretty cool in developing her. In fact, the last two have been some of the best Firefly (though "Out of Gas" still remains the best episode and some of the best TV this season). I was lukewarm on Firefly when it started, but goddamn, I'm hooked already.
make that intriguing by Tall_Boy	Dec 12th, 2002 05:55:05 AM
goddamnit, 6:00AM and just finished my final term paper, cut me some slack.
by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 12th, 2002 06:24:46 AM

Firefly by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 12th, 2002 06:27:43 AM
Hands down, best Sci-fi on TV. River with the pistol last week? That kicked ass. I'm looking forward to more on her and Shepard Book. He must be some kind of Ex-Alliance high up type of guy, before he became a Shepard. I bet he's the Alliance General who commanded the Alliance troops at the Battle of Serenity. I don't think I can pick a favorite character, its such a good grouping. This show kicks ass.
Thanks, but damn the viewing public is stupid. by Mysnari	Dec 12th, 2002 06:36:53 AM
Fox: Please read this through - I may be "just a no one" to you, but feel free to contact me: I'm far more than "just a noone" when it comes to programming entertainment. I've created several dramatic companies and kept alive three major performance choruses - I know what sells and to whom. As such threads as this one (http://arstechnica.infopop.ne t/OpenTopic/page?a=tpc&s=50009 562&f=34709834&m=5220913145) on a major geek internet forum indicate, Firefly (and John Doe) are being watched. They are mostly being downloaded because of your (no offense intended) REALLY clueless scheduling, but they are being watched. Fastlane is targeted at the teenage audience. Noone older could possibly like this blatant fast-and-the-furious perversion with (again no intended offense, just fact) hideous effects. Both Firefly and John Doe are targeted at the 18-30 demo, with John Doe skewing more towards 25-40. Remember - these age groups are the ones who buy things. Your advertisers know this as well as I do. Moving Firefly and John Doe off of Fridays will greatly enhance their ratings. Franky, despite the thread I linked and my general respect for Joss Whedon, I think if you are going to choose to back only one of these shows John Doe is the one to choose - the acting talent and premise are far better here. . I do think both shows can survive, though, if given good timeslots. Remember your failure with Futurama. It is by far the most respected of your shows on the net - which means within the 17-25 demographic, which does sell advertisers. It died because most of its targer audience didn't feel like hoping the football game would end on time so they could watch it. Had Futurama held the 8:30 Sunday slot after the Simpsons, youd've seen an increase, at least in the past two years, over the Simpson's ratings for Futurama. The same applies to Firefly and John Doe. The best spot for Firefly would be either Tuesday at 9:00 (which is currently occupied by 24, so that's not gonna happen) or Sunday at 8:00 or 10:00 (before or after Buffy or Angel). I cannot beleive you never thought to use another network's Joss show to lead in to or be followed by your Joss show. Again ,no offense intended, but that's just not thinking. It's win-win: Thos loyal to your programming will stay with you (pre or post other-network's-Whedon). If you pair it correctly (for instance, 8:00 Firefly, 9:00 Malcom, 9:30 Futurama on Sunday - Simpsons is so ready to retire), you'll get the Whedon nuts at the 8:00 hour and the nonWhedon nut geeks plus the regular Malcom audience at 9:00, feeding into the Futurama geek audience at 9:30). Yes, I have no credentials in this arena. Problem (for you) is that those who do are sinking your best shows by pretending they know what they're doing. I can put your best shows in the position they need to be to sell to your target audiences for those shows. I can guarantee you a better rating for every single one of your shows if you give me the chance to reschedule you (with proper choice of promos at the right times) for February sweeps. I would bet my balls on it. I don't really expect to hear back from you. I only hope, for your sake, that you at least take to heart what I've given you for free - your shows mostly rock, your scheduling sucks. Hell, switching Firefly and Fastlane alone (and actually promoting Firefly, which you do not, as opposed to fifteen ads per primt time period for fastlane) would increase your advertising revenues more than you could possibly imagine. Please, for once in your career (whoever is actually reading this), take a risk. Even if you never contact me, despite the fact that I know I can program you into at least the #2 in US slot, at the very least try the switch between your Wednesday and Friday lineups. Trying to dodge "Enterprise" with geek shows is not bright - most true geeks hate the Berman/Braga era of Star Trek. Putting Firefly Wednesday at 8:00 would be almost as good as Sunday at 8:00, and given your investment in keeping the fading Simpsons alive that Wednesday slot might be your best possible slot for it. Whatever you do, do not try to put a show like Firefly or Dark Angel (which died solely because of that Friday deathslot) or John Doe or X-Files or any other geek-targeted show on Fridays. Standard "wisdom" is to put "cult-classic" type shows on Fridays. That "wisdom" is no longer valid - geeks have lives/ ****************** http://arstechnica.infopop.net /OpenTopic/page?q=Y&a=tpc&s=50 009562&f=34709834&m=5220913145 &p=2
Best scifi show on TV what are you on by Spike fan	Dec 12th, 2002 06:52:23 AM
Farscape was a far superior show with some real emmy worthy episodes (see SCRATH AND SNIFF and REVENGING ANGEL to see what I mean)
Nerd Alert! by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 12th, 2002 07:37:46 AM
There is a Farscape fan in the TalkBack! I repeat, there is a Farscape Fan in the Talkback. Someone call decontamination.
What is this Star Trek/Star Wars crap? by The Grey Man	Dec 12th, 2002 08:46:02 AM
"Farscape rox!" "No, Farscape Sux!! Firefly rox!" Guys, both shows are really good. It doesn't have to be either/or. The bottom line is that there's not nearly enough good sci-fi on the tube and Fox should really do more to keep this show going. No, thank YOU.
Save Firefly! by dandosama	Dec 12th, 2002 08:49:37 AM
Firefly is the only genre show on TV worth watching anymore, what with the imminent demise of Farscape (which, let's face it, has faltered of late). All of my friends like the show. However, even though all of them are geeks like myself, none of them actually watch the show when it airs. As Mysnari mentioned above, even we lowly nerds have lives. Everyone I know either downloads or tapes the show. Please reschedule this wonderful show and keep it alive!
Screw the Wendon, after last season of Buffy he doesn't qualify by BannthisUcommies	Dec 12th, 2002 09:33:07 AM
Of course he doesn't give a shit what people "like me" think anyway. I just watched his shows and was a reliable "trust the wendon" in TBs and in spirit. No thats over. Just an off season? No much more than that. When I started with Buffy it was the end of season 2, so I was spoiled. By the end of 3 I'd fight people to the death to make them watch. If I'd done that last year I'd have been embarassed. Angel seemed to prosper with less Wendon, Buffy, just the opposite. But then he claimed he was there, that he just didn't tweak the episodes and that would make a huge difference (like Spike and the cross this year). You know to me, NOT really. Don't know what he's changed in the past but the tweaks he takes credit for this year seem negligible. So do I bother with Firefly? Well maybe. I start out taping them to watch them in a run. Hell they're not half bad. Yes they do get better and they do so quickly. Its not better than Farscape, sorry. Not yet at least. But it has potential. So do I go blathering at the mouth to watch this show? NO. 2 reasons. 1 - how do I know that season six of Buffy isn't lying around the corner again? 2 - Image. See Wendon is shot in the ass with himself (can't blame him, he's above average, hangs with the shallow end of the gene pool thereby looking so much better, and is constantly told how great he is). So he makes "creative choices" like Tara and Willow. Wow great only its so contrived. I
Wendon??? by GypsyTRobot	Dec 12th, 2002 09:50:30 AM
Were you thinking of Wendigo, cannibalistic creature of the north woods? Anywho, after the triumph of the last episode, I'm really looking forward to seeing the next one. Firefly really takes the sting out of having nowhere else to go on a Friday night.
John Doe by Rand Race	Dec 12th, 2002 09:53:22 AM
Mysnari; Do you seriously think the acting talent on John Doe is better than on Firefly? While Dominic Purcell in the lead role is, admittedly, probably better than anyone of Firefly, the rest of the cast of John Doe simply makes me cringe. The hyper-stereotypical bartender and Doe's uber annoying assistant in particular are the worst of the lot, but the two cops - Hayes and Avery (Jayne Brook who is also the creator and executive producer) - are not much better. Last weeks episode was my favorite yet simply because none of those people were in it.
John Doe -- eh by GypsyTRobot	Dec 12th, 2002 10:23:32 AM
I watched it last time, it was like McGuyver on a plane. "I have to match the red and green wires, but I'm colorblind." Which they solve by him magically connecting the right wires. The whole episode seemed very choppy and I had a hard time buying the fat guy as semi-competent murderer. What has Firefly got that John Doe doesn't? Jayne. And that's just for starters.
Ah, two more episodes of this sci-fi "Western" and I'm done. Tha by WarDog	Dec 12th, 2002 10:59:23 AM
I watched The Visitor (remember that, anyone?) longer in it's one year than Firefly. Why? Because this just doesn't come off as a futuristic SF series with all the "Western" trappings. If the vaunted Joss Whedon had any goddam clue about Science Fiction, he'd know that even if his concept could work with certain thematic elements of the Old West, the trappings and weapons and clothes and social conventions are glaringly out of place. Did I really see them firing bolts or pulses of energy out of FUCKING REVOLVERS? That's when I lost respect for this series. And lever-action rifles in the last episode. JEEZUS! THIS IS THE FUCKING FUTURE! ANY CIVILIZATION THAT CAN FLY BETWEEN THE STARS AND TERRAFORM WHOLE PLANETS IS NOT--REPEAT NOT!--GOING TO LIMIT ITSELF TO PUSSY EXPLOSIVE-BALLISTIC WEAPONS!!!!! And run around in the clothes they wear. AND have societies as fucking backward and superstition-ridden as the one which tried to burn River as a freaking witch! No way. Not four goddam centuries hence. Don't even get me started on the Chinese (or whatever) thrown into the dialogue now and then--with NO subtitles--for social flavor or whatnot. Are we supposed to understand just what they're saying, or is the pretentious creator of this crap series just satisfied with us getting the bare gist of it? ******* BOTTOM LINE: I don't care if Whedon thought all the standard conventions of a star-faring future civilization were old hat, this new version makes no sense. Whedon is a puking wannabe when it comes to Science Fiction. He should have stuck to earthbound light fantasy. I will rejoice when I hear of Firefly being cancelled.
FIREFLY YAY! by BRTick	Dec 12th, 2002 11:26:24 AM
WHEDON ROCKS!
River by The Llama	Dec 12th, 2002 12:25:06 PM
Glad to see some other people agree that River is somewhat less than intriguing. I don't understand why Herc constantly emphasizes her greatness--almost reads as if by wishing it were so, he'll suddenly convince us that it's true. I'd rather see Jayne or Wash or Kaylee (or however the name is spelled). The doctor, his sister (not attractive at all, either, despite the occasional drooling comment on here), and Book are the least interesting characters. They're sort of stock, stereotypical sci-fi characters, and I wouldn't cry if some of them were killed off in a dramatic way at season finale. Though I have to admit that I DO like having a large 9-person cast. It might be unwieldy at times, but it's easier to believe that than that four or five people are running a mercenary/smuggling operation alone.
Josh Wendon by Randy Giles	Dec 12th, 2002 12:34:43 PM
May I say, I never get tired of seeing people who know nothing about these shows criticize them. Josh Wendon? Come on! If you don't even know his name, you are not paying enough attention.
good to hear herc remembers by the scientist	Dec 12th, 2002 12:53:09 PM
I remember being upset about herc not mentioning that there was a new Angel during butt-numb-a-thon either last year or two years ago and emailing the green one. Thanks for the heads up!
The Firefly hater (c)rap by GypsyTRobot	Dec 12th, 2002 01:29:55 PM
The crew avoids lasers, phasers or stun guns/cuz firearms are cheaper, safer and more fun/The Western wear is there for one reason:/cute rumps in tight pants are always in season/If you hate Firefly then stick to Star Trek/The sci fi of choice for those with no intellect.
Firefly and the future by Hjermsted	Dec 12th, 2002 01:43:50 PM
Firefly could be the way the future looks... how the hell do you know? The intro of the show sets up the premise: "Some planets are lush with the new technologies... others not so much." Do you think projectile firing guns are simply going to disappear just because newer types of energy-based guns have come on to the scene? Well then that would've already happened right here in the present. Today we have both kinds of weapons. Economy is all about supply and demand. If a projectile weapon is cheaper than the energy blaster... that's what you buy if you're poor! Firefly's outer planets are backwater that way. Firefly is a fantastic show that sees the future differently than you do... so what?
Pussy Weapons by Rand Race	Dec 12th, 2002 01:47:54 PM
Oh yes, let's give em phasers like on Trek! Fucking muskets outrange phasers. I remember a DS9 where they ambush some Jem Haddar on some planet... a dozen feddies open up at 50 meters and hit one guy out of 20! Give me a damned BAR and I'll do more damage by myself. Never, ever underestimate the high speed projectile. The western thing is all about MONEY. It is far more economical to take a breeding pair of donkeys to your new planet than to take the makings of a tractor factory. Real Science Fiction fans would recognize this from many, mant fine literary works of the genre by authors like Niven, Pournelle, Heinlein, and a host of others. This is intellectual, speculative fiction Whedon is doing, not pie in the sky fantasy in space. And that's why it will most likely die.
GypsyTRobot & Hjermsted: Firefly Fans Unite by Randy Giles	Dec 12th, 2002 01:57:27 PM
I can't even fathom why anyone would claim that the acting on John Doe is better than Firefly. "Oooh! Who am I? I'm colorblind! There are 54,000 dimples in a golf ball!" How can you compare the two when, on Firefly, Nathan Fillion can make a line like "You all gonna be here when I wake up?" cause a lump in the throat? Furthermore, I am NOT a Sci-Fi fan and, after reading these boards, I have realized that Firefly, Buffy and Angel and not for Sci-Fi/Fantasy fans. You fools are missing the point. Everyone complaining about the guns and the clothes can take a long walk off a short peer overlooking a sea of my piss. Burn your action figures. Welcome to Humanity (what Whedon is all about).
wardog by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 12th, 2002 02:48:21 PM
Who are you to decide that the "western aspects" are out of place? Have you been to the future? Do you know how it will turn out? As far as I've ever heard the future is a place of infinite possibilities. So that means there is no set of rules. Yes, in this show they use projectile weapons, get over it, its how the show is set up. Why don
River rules by Anyawatcher	Dec 12th, 2002 02:52:19 PM
This show just gets better and better. "Can't look"-boom boom boom. Atleast the Farscape fans have stopped bitching that Firefly is a ripoff of their muppet show. Taken is good too so they can't be mad at that miniseries. Joss WHEDON-no power in the 'verse can stop him.
Qwerty by Anyawatcher	Dec 12th, 2002 03:02:00 PM
nice posts and no fat jokes. I'm afraid on Tuesday when I check the Buffy section the TB will have many lame ass jokes. Is anyone fat on Firefly???
Another reason Firefly is a great show by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 12th, 2002 03:16:26 PM
No fatties
Inara is a little plump by ME standards by GypsyTRobot	Dec 12th, 2002 03:45:13 PM
Thank God, a female character who ISN'T a stick. If the show were superrealistic, Jayne would let himself completely go. He's just a big loveable scuzbucket, take that to the final analysis and you know there has to be a beer belly involved.
Inara by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 12th, 2002 03:49:45 PM
sooooo hot, want to touch the heinie.
speaking of fat... by EveKendall	Dec 12th, 2002 05:26:18 PM
Did you know Jewel Staite (Kaylee) is contractually obligated to stay a certain weight? There was an article floating around in which Nathan Fillion says he would find her eating donuts even after she was full. Now, I don't really think you can consider her plump and I think contracting something like that is taking it a little far, but it IS nice to see women that aren't scarily thin on TV.
But by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 12th, 2002 05:29:44 PM
Is Kaylee bigger than Willow? I've always thought they were the same size.
by BRTick	Dec 12th, 2002 05:30:29 PM

people who don't like Firefly are idiots by BRTick	Dec 12th, 2002 05:33:02 PM
you've all been spoiled by the crap fests that are star trek and star wars far to long, far be it for something original like Firefly and or even Farscape to come along and then you morons don't watch and they get cancelled. morons!
Willow/Kaylee by EveKendall	Dec 12th, 2002 06:08:55 PM
I don't think Kaylee looks quite as bony as willow does sometimes... although they may be the same size in height. I don't know. Maybe I'm just not a good judge, but when I look at Kaylee I see someone that seems healthy in size, around my weight. LOL! Anyway, here's a picture, but I don't know how much the coveralls add to her "healthy" appearance. http://www.chosentwo.com/firef ly/gallery/promos/1promo09.jpg
Just read a great story on bwstarwars... by chickenmonkey	Dec 12th, 2002 06:29:34 PM
http://www.theonion.com/onion3 846/nation_afraid_to_admit.htm l
Wow by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 12th, 2002 07:49:45 PM
What a rapier wit, what a keen eye. Way to go after Herc for liking something.
The Rim worlds would have weapons they could make themselves by warlock411	Dec 12th, 2002 08:09:23 PM
or perhaps be brought in by ships like Serenity, High quality energy weapons would be worth thier weight in gold or whatever they value most. I would expect to see many diff types of weapons. >> But having said that I would expect to see advances in basic slug throwers in addition to the engery weapons. As in a small gatling gun / chain gun type weapon for hand held use,or a sound weapon as in sonic screamer or what ever weapon a Navy Seal of SAS type would get wet dreams over.
So...USA Today reports this show as CANCELLED by p5mmr9	Dec 12th, 2002 11:22:51 PM
Is it true? Didn't Herc report that the show would be back later in the season?
man I am hooked by Napalm_Luva	Dec 13th, 2002 01:03:35 AM
At 1st I thought this is just a live-action rip off of Cowboy Beebop, u know with a bunch of guys in a spaceship like cowboys going places doing odd jobs, and the ship had a spining section like the Bebop. After last weeks episode I am really hooked. Mal, the cap, man that guy was beyond tough, he just got back from being dead, and I mean DEAD, and he got off the table and started knocking the two guys torturing him around like they were school boys. River was just plain errie the way she said those words and they way she killed those guards without even looking. Finally the preacher, who the hell is he, the way he shoots I am sure he did not pick that up in church. I want know what is going to happen to these ppl, to me they have come alive almost, and I really hope this show does not get canned.
Firefly has been cancelled by LivingTribunal	Dec 13th, 2002 03:15:14 AM
Shows producer has confirmed it on his website: www.timminear.net It was just starting to get good.
yup, it's true by EveKendall	Dec 13th, 2002 04:27:07 AM
The official posting board is full of "condolences." BUT if you like this show, keep watching and visit http://www.fireflysupport.com. There's a "Roswell" style campaing comong up to try and get another network to pick it up. Don't know that it'll work, but it's worth a shot. I'm hoping for UPN, Tuesday nights after Buffy.
Ok, and so I can't type at 3:30 in the morning... by EveKendall	Dec 13th, 2002 04:28:45 AM
so please forgive all typos in the post above (or below depending on where this one lands).
Time to get Fray fast-tracked, Joss. by IdFuckAvril	Dec 13th, 2002 06:33:52 AM
Firefly cancelled. Looks like this is the last season of Buffy since it doesn't like SMG will re-sign. Angel's ratings could weaken when it moves to Wednesdays. Time to move the Firefly production over to UPN to get fast-track Fray into production to replace Buffy, Joss.
3....2....1..... GONE! by zigmondsrh	Dec 13th, 2002 10:40:55 AM
This show was headed for cancellation the moment it started. It will never make cuz its too expensive to produce and doesn't have the ratings. Sorry, but its true.
www.savefirefly.com by soybomb2	Dec 13th, 2002 10:55:27 AM

Firefly RIP by Randy Giles	Dec 13th, 2002 11:14:37 AM
Good night, sweet prince. We hardly knew you. Just more proof that people are assholes. Make it happen, UPN.
Links, please by GypsyTRobot	Dec 13th, 2002 11:32:14 AM
I looked at the USA site and did not see the article. Let's get some solid evidence before the chortling and handwringing starts, shall we?
Damn FOX to the ninth level of hell by burningbabyfish	Dec 13th, 2002 11:52:59 AM
Cancelling Firefly. I hope John Doe tanks now because they lose the carryover audience. Meh. Announced by Joss and Tim Minear, both. Why cancel something when the buzz is building? Idiots, idiots, idiots.
No new episodes will be ordered... by Hjermsted	Dec 13th, 2002 12:41:12 PM
...however Firefly is on tonight and next week. Fox currently plans to show three additional completed Firefly episodes (entitled "Trash", "Heart of Gold" and "The Message") midseason sometime. Efforts are underway to move the show to another network or into syndication. Pay attention to www.fireflysupport.com for more details and be prepared: the letter writin' activist inside you will be called upon shortly.
TimMinear.net by EveKendall	Dec 13th, 2002 01:22:19 PM
His website has a statement about the show's cancellation. That's the main source. And all of you glaoting about Firefly, how idiotic. Was it really hurting you for the show to be on the air? Ans besides, just because the show wasn't a rating success doesn't mean it wasn't a creative success. I sense some Dark Angel fan hijinks. You guys suck to be happy another fanbase's show got canceled. You of all people should be able to sympathize.
lara means by el oso	Dec 13th, 2002 02:03:38 PM
what a bitch. what's your problem with Joss Whedon? Firefly is one of the best shows on television right now, have you ever even watched it? the only reason it is being cancelled is because FOX isn't into giving great shows a chance if their ratings are stellar right off the bat (see: Undeclared). they'd rather put out awful, horrible, trashy shit that they know will grab ratings (see: Celebrity Boxing). hopefully we'll see the show move to UPN or WB and let these great characters that Joss has created develop and grow.
Payback is a female dog by GypsyTRobot	Dec 13th, 2002 02:06:34 PM
Well this is what we get for all those TB'ers who pissed on Farscape and Dark Angel fans during their time of pain. (Although I still can't feel sorry for Birds of Prey diehards). I hope the next time a geek-favored show is cancelled you'll all remember how much it hurts and apply the golden rule. of course, you won't. Bow wow.
fuck by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 13th, 2002 02:24:46 PM
well, such is the life of a geek. Dream Projects are dumped before production, or favorite shows are cancelled after a short run. Its an old, old story. I guess Firefly was too good for America. Maybe Fox is right in programming shows aimed at stupid people, they're obviously a much bigger market. Goodbye, Firefly, you flew too high and burned too bright.
Speaking of stupid people, by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 13th, 2002 02:26:02 PM
"You finally proved to use" Proved to use? What?
Shoulda know fox woulda screwed the pooch on this one. by Anyawatcher	Dec 13th, 2002 03:13:02 PM
They put a shit show like Fastlane on Wed. and great show like Firefly on Fri. Not airing the pilot was hint #1 that Fox sucks ass. And for the Dark Angel and Muppet Show fans go ahead and cheer. no one gives a fuck about your shows. SciFi is making Tremors the series instead of cameo's by Kermit and Elmo on Farscape. It's a sad day for quality television. Can't wait for the Fastlane TB. What will happen next when the MTV VJay and the generic white guy team up next.
re: Wardog's rampage (cool band name) by The Killer-Goat	Dec 13th, 2002 03:26:33 PM
I'm trying hard not to wade through the overdone "western" aspect, I've said too much already in prev. TB's. Suffice to say that if there'd been an even balance of western and high-tech-society evidence mixed together --instead of the near constant back-to-back hillbilly episodes Fox mangled out of order-- it would've been easier to accept as a constant, instead of an annoying inconsistency to the pre-established level of available technology and flight. ******As for the weapons: y'all missed wardog's point. Standard revolvers DO NOT fire energy bolts, it's just basic science... unless one of the cast cares to explain how the old-fashioned 20th century relics of over 400yrs past were somehow adapted to accomodate new ammunition (no, bullets don't make discharge noises like in the show). It has NOTHING to do with their choice of using bullets over lasers, or the expense of advanced technology. In many ways bullets would be preferable to energy weapons if std. mass projectiles left much smaller holes to plug after a firefight. If the crew was smart they'd even make sure the hull was bulletproof (as an earlier TB suggested) so the only viable targets were organic (not addressing the concern of ricochets). We've already seen the SW universe use WW2 mauser automatics (han solo's gun) and MG34 machine guns, and many other odds and ends (at least modified in some detail beyond std appearance). It was a little cheesy once I recognized it on the 7th viewing, but they also had 3-d alien costumes and retro robots and hover machines, and don't forget samurai warriors with energy blades. With that much stuff crammed in under 2hrs time, dumb details might take a back-seat. In Firefly it would be a dumb detail as well, except that the entire series is based on nothing but HUMAN technology, and focuses on a small band of humans that use HUMAN weapons constantly to fight with. It's not too much to ask for some science accuracy on our behalf, in a show created 25 yrs after SW (or Flash Gordon). Some basic research into why a revolver's barrel would melt w/incindiary or energy bolt ammo without major modifications would help, or even a base comment from Jayne or something. Or just make something up like Farscape, or the phasers/lasers in Trek (pure mythology back then), but don't expect that avid viewers with some basic science insight AREN'T going to notice it, the same way Trekkies can't get away without people pointing out their own inconsistencies (who the hell sends their own executive officers* down to explore uncharted planets??? how the hell does a 300+ meter long starclass cruiser made of alloys and ploy-carbons survive a frickin' WORMHOLE, let alone Warp speed???). Many folks, myself incl, weren't miffed about bullets but using old weapons in a futuristic show that seemed to just glide over that aspect of technology. Our Special Forces today are obviously still using bullets but the weapons have advanced dramatically (we're even now reaching the limits of how much destructive power to get out of a 'bullet'), and even "3rd world" terrorists in Afghanistan or Somalia don't use anything older than the Vietnam war (many, many years after Billy the Kid and Wyatt Earp). If you're going to argue it, accept it or even defend it, on either side, be ready to admit the "cheese factor" in Firefly is just as evident as in Trek, SW, and muppets in Farscape. Any other reasoning is just mud-slinging hypocrisy back-and-forth and reduces you to the level of a die-hard 'Trekkie' (you really want to be that adamant in defense of a TV show???). There are always going to be folks saying, "I could learn to like this show unconditionally, EXCEPT for this detail I find very annoying...". Glaring tech details don't make a show bad or un-enjoyable but they will be pointed out, hopefully in a casual or at least open-minded manner. And I'm sure that's often the case, but too many people jump to the defense with the wrong preconception and an extreme polar reaction. Firefly is good sci-fi, but not "better" than Farscape or Enterprise (just much better cast), because of it's own inconsistencies. On Whedon's part, you can't defend this show as casually as Buffy or Angel, because vampires and demons are a much looser fantasy interpretation. Unlike Enterprise or Trek, Firefly uses technology very much based on our own contemporary science, sometimes well, sometimes not, "suspension of disbelief" holds less water. I'm not going to assume anything they haven't already bothered to explain, but I will question it.
whoops, also just noticed... by The Killer-Goat	Dec 13th, 2002 03:35:38 PM
did they really axe this show? Dumbasses. It was really hitting it's stride despite Fox's f**k-ups. Will we EVER get to see the pilot??? Anya, quit being bitter at other people's expense, eh? Unless you have it in for every, single, person who watched Farscape, at least put a disclaimer for the whiners who ALSO supported Firefly. Don't piss on the shows, piss on the networks that didn't do them justice.
Can't we all just get along? by chickenmonkey	Dec 13th, 2002 04:31:00 PM
I for one never bashed anyone else's show (except Enterprise -- but that's only because I had such high hopes for it, on which it continually failed to deliver), so let me be the first to buy a round of drinks for all us, to toast failed genre television shows of past and present, and so we can all cry in our beers. ***** And swear cold hard revenge.
chickenmonkey, make mine a double whiskey, with whiskey back by TV CASUALTY	Dec 13th, 2002 04:56:32 PM
bye bye, firefly. we hardly knew ye.
I never watched Farscape of Dark Angel... by EveKendall	Dec 13th, 2002 05:08:55 PM
... but I never stopped into a talkback to take a crap on the fans of those shows. I've had too many of my favorite shows (Roswell, Sports Night, Now and Again etc...) canceled to do that to anyone. The first time I've ever experienced this phenomena is at the hands of Dark Angel fans, and it really sucks. Talk about giving a fanbase a bad name. Dumping on Firefly is NOT going to bring back Dark Angel (or Tara for that matter) so at this point it's just incredibly stupid and immature. Please go vent your hostility elsewhere.
who cares about the western stuff? by onetrueking	Dec 13th, 2002 05:26:47 PM
It's about characters. Interesting, evolving, dynamic characters. There's probably been more character development in the last 5 episodes of Firefly than we can expect in the entire 7 seasons of Enterprise.
FX is probably the best bet by IdFuckAvril	Dec 13th, 2002 05:49:48 PM
No way is UPN going to pay for a new season of Firefly. Costs too much and the audience is not there. They'll put up the money for a cheaper-to-produce new installment in the Slayer franchise, but not this -- especially when they already have their own ship show (some Star Trek thing, I hear). FX will once again take on the burden of re-airing sister FOX's cast-offs. The three un-aired episodes that are still in production will probably premiere on FX. I predict this spring, FX will air all 15 hours, and do so in the correct chronological order. Other than that, the show is over, gang. Move on.
NOOOOOOOOOOO! by GypsyTRobot	Dec 13th, 2002 05:55:23 PM

Some of us geeks are poor and don't have cable. by GypsyTRobot	Dec 13th, 2002 05:56:43 PM
Just say no to FX.
FireFly started out slow and has gotten better with every eppy by warlock411	Dec 13th, 2002 06:56:33 PM
But so many people just did not stick around for the good eps. If Fox and Joss could have started out with a PILOT and then go right into a powerful story FireFly would have had good ratings, But no PILOT and the first eppys they showed were weak doomed FireFly.
Friday nights could have been so good by warlock411	Dec 13th, 2002 06:59:22 PM
FireFly , Farscape , Stargate SG1 , Oddssey 5 and Jeramiah.
another great show by el oso	Dec 13th, 2002 09:07:21 PM
Firefly is really on a roll now with so many great episodes in a row. Why FOX why?? * Funniest part of the ep: Jayne, upon hearing sounds of a fight, wakes up and rips the curtain off of his gun rack! ... only to cover himself with it and go back to sleep. Jayne is so freakin hilarious..."I'll be in my bunk" * Any bets on who Book really is? It seems that he used to be a higher-up in the Alliance, since he has an in with them. And what about his comment that River saw about him not caring that somebody was innocent...what was that all about? *** I watch the show on Global in Canada, and right after it is Andromeda..now can Firefly's budget really be much more than Andromeda? I wish they could syndicate the show...anyway after Andromeda The Shield comes on, yum yum. Another fantastic show.
Frelling great... by TenDeuChen	Dec 13th, 2002 09:23:17 PM
That was one frelling good episode...Firefly is awesome...
the reason firefly must survive by shabby	Dec 13th, 2002 09:35:59 PM
"That sounds like something out of science fiction." "You live in a spaceship, dear." "So?" THIS attitude needs to be in more sci fi. Period. Gorram straight!
A Message From Joss... by coop	Dec 13th, 2002 09:58:31 PM
http://www.buffistas.org/showt hread.php?thread_id=13&post_id =7717
I think Kaylee looks just fine. by MVisco	Dec 13th, 2002 11:11:41 PM
As do all the other 3 female cast members do, Inara being the hottest and one of the most exotic beauties on TV today. As for the show in whole, I love it. Tonight
Way to go FOX... by kingink123	Dec 13th, 2002 11:21:08 PM
Now I don't have a single show to watch in your entire weekly broadcast. I would say thanks for giving the show a chance, but no, you couldn't do that either, you had to totally fuck it all up. Hope you can get this show on another channel Joss..good luck
Firefly takes it's place beside ACTION & PROFIT by Cooler-than-Thou	Dec 13th, 2002 11:54:02 PM
It's too bad FOX couldn't keep a good show to save it's life. I truly think it was a mistake to put the show on Friday's to begin with. Firefly is a Wednesday show if I've ever seen one. Nothing worth watching is on hump day. i haven't been this bummed since FOX got rid of Action and Profit. Both were shows I felt were way too good to be on broadcast television. Profit was dark, surrealistic perfection. Action was clever, profane and sharp. Jay Mohr and Adrian Pasdar's two anti-heroes were some of televisions most memorable characters. Both ruthless and evil. Both incredibly compelling. Unlike those gems, I hope that Firefly is resurrected.
well, crap. and John Doe ERROR. by jefepeterson	Dec 14th, 2002 12:04:15 AM
Does FOX think it has a show that will get better ratings at 8 p.m. on Friday nights? It's a very good show, good luck finding a better one, morons. Also, John Doe, the correct plural of "symposium" is NOT "symposiums," it's "symposia."
"It's not too much to ask for some science accuracy on our behal by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 14th, 2002 12:08:37 AM
heh, heh, heh, HAHAHAHAHAHA! Ah, fuck man, whatever. Dwell upon whatever detail you want to. So long Firefly. Now to go watch the tape.
Fox execs should recognize this... by BRAK	Dec 14th, 2002 12:21:51 AM
They did it. They finally REALLY did it. YOU MANIACS! God damn you. God damn you all to hell!
Leave Firefly on the air by KingMagnus	Dec 14th, 2002 12:30:07 AM
Of course Fox will cancel Firefly, the show has too much potential and is the kind of show that you sit down and watch and are suddenly surprised when it is 9:00 already. There is a captain who is the closest thing to Kirk that TV has shown us since, well, James T. Kirk. No, the show is not perfect, Joss Whedon's talent in Buffy was to establish the central character and THEN expand into the supporting characters until they are complete. In Firefly, there are too many people, it does get confusing a few times. Here are my suggestions: Focus more on the captain, Shoot Jayne after throwing him out the airlock, give Kaylee more screen time, I leave the rest to Joss, he has surprised his fans before and I think if the show is given a chance, he will again. To all people who hate Joss, Who cares! Hey, American Idol 2 is going to be on in January....then non-thinking people will have something to watch.
Fans of other shows ended before their time salute you, Firefly by RoobyRoo	Dec 14th, 2002 12:35:50 AM
Farscape, Kolchack the Night Stalker, Twin Peaks: Fans of these underappreciated shows know the burn of a network which doesn't get it. In fairness, I didn't watch much of Firefly, but genre shows are few and far between. I can at least understand why people might have liked it. If Firefly had taken off, it might have given Farscape a new lease on life, or led to the creation of some new sci-fi show. Oh well...hopefully Firefly's demise doesn't damage network interest in this type of show.
Firefly is great! Almost good enough to make me want to watch B by Eyegore	Dec 14th, 2002 12:44:00 AM
...almost.
"Does that seem right to you?" by Gislef_crow	Dec 14th, 2002 01:24:40 AM
Actually, "Objects in Space" was pretty hilarious. With Richard Brooks (G vs. E, and a Carthagian shadow-assassin on Brimstone) they finally got a bad guy worthy of the show. Hopefully he shows up again as someone above mentioned. Definite Whedon-ish dialogue (with a bit of Tarantino thrown in) and the regulars mostly done as well.
Qwerty and Anyawatcher -- I piss on Firefly's grave. You arroga by Trollmaster	Dec 14th, 2002 01:26:00 AM
But as it is, Joss' little turd got what it deserved. Qwerty: you have quite a pair of balls to bag on Star Trek uniforms as being "faggy," when much of Firefly's wardrobe looks like the defective merchandise returns in the backroom of an Eddie Bauer store. If Star Wars and Star Trek are written in crayon then Whedon's crap is written with a stick in the dirt. That goes for Buffy and Angel, too. Calling fans of Star Trek closed-minded sci-fi nerds implies that Firefly was a cut above, which only proves that you're deluded about your own geek status. Anyawatcher, at least Dark Angel hung around a while on Fox, unlike your supposed gem of a show. Joss' supposedly "hip" show sucked. For Anyawatcher and Qwerty to trumpet Firefly as great T.V. is like someone claiming to be a great author and then turning out Bazooka Joe mini-comics. Come to terms with the mediocrity of your taste. And in case you two think zesty little return flames might be cathartic, know that as soon as I hit "post" on this pearl of wisdom, I will not be returning to this particular talkback. Bluster if you must. Long live Fastlane! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha !
"Qwerty: you have quite a pair of balls " by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 14th, 2002 01:47:41 AM
Why thank you, I've been told that they are very attractive. Thank you for noticing.
well by el oso	Dec 14th, 2002 01:49:03 AM
he definitely picked a good name for himself..
(sigh) Qwerty... by The Killer-Goat	Dec 14th, 2002 01:51:40 AM
If it's not too much to ask, just a little bit of civility in your replies, thanks. We've chatted before, and I haven't dumped crap on your posts, I'd appreciate the return favor. I haven't even pushed the "gee, looks like Farscape outlasted Firefly" taunt button, out of courtesy. But hey, it's all subjective. Obviously if opinions that veered even slightly in the negative didn't upset your cart, you wouldn't be bothering to post replies. It's all in the "details" buddy, or you wouldn't have made comparisons to "faggy" Star Trek uniforms or technology descrepancies between old school SW and the prequels, not even to counter the naysayers on the Firefly TB's. But that's okay, everyone's entitled to stay as obsessively defensive as they want regarding any ONE particular sci-fi show. I know why I liked Firefly, but why you seem close-minded about Trek and the SW Prequels (among other things) is something I don't jive.
Best SF since B5! by Subversive01057	Dec 14th, 2002 02:03:35 AM
My guess is the few oddballs who don't care for it are the same lame folks who thought B5 was just a stupid soap opera.
its okay pulp, by The Killer-Goat	Dec 14th, 2002 02:23:03 AM
Like I said, it's all subjective, and the rules apply to every scifi show out there. But I disagree on your "thought-out ideas" slant against the SW prequels, AOTC in particular. I think Lucas did a great job laying out a plotline that was supposed to lead to an inevitable conclusion that we already know the results of, from the first trilogy, and still make it somewhat engaging. His dialog, presentation, and much of the eye-candy were what submerged that potential. But I'll give that much credit where I think it's due. Anyways, I won't call you to task unless you feel the need.
You're not fooling me Goatkiller, I've read the "billy goats' gr by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 14th, 2002 02:24:37 AM
I didn't dump crap on your posts I merely brushed them aside. Mostly because with the show being cancelled, what does a debate about pistol shape matter? It seemed like too much work at the time. But if I had replied, it probably would have been A.) How do you know the guns haven't been modified? And B.) Its just part of the show's motif. Farscape has puppets, Firefly had cowboy shit, its the way it goes. "I haven't even pushed the "gee, looks like Farscape outlasted Firefly" taunt button, out of courtesy." Wow, how nice of you.... Wait a minute! You sneaky little rat bastard! Anyway, B.F.D. there
"Bullets are soft lead, Mal." by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 14th, 2002 02:31:02 AM
Thats a quote from tonights show. Maybe FOX had the sound effects people lower the report of the weapons. Great Ep tonight. I really liked the Bounty hunter. The pausing to lick the post part? That was funny.
'I am become digging it.' by The Killer-Goat	Dec 14th, 2002 02:56:12 AM
Had I bothered to read the cancellation posts, I might not have wasted valuable TB space...but then again, maybe I would have anyways. I was genuinely interested in the show's potential. I just hadn't noticed the cancellation comments until afterwards. Anyways. There's always open interpretation for a particular show, but just to restate my stance: "I'm not going to assume anything they haven't already bothered to explain, but I will question it." Shame the show didn't last long enough to cultivate a larger 'fanboy' audience. ;(
s'alright by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 14th, 2002 02:57:29 AM
such is the life of a geek.
Why can't we all just get along? by sophistigirl	Dec 14th, 2002 02:59:41 AM
Why do we have to attack eachother? It is sad that Firefly is gone. As it was when plenty of other shows were unfairly cancelled. We have all been there and knows what it feels like. I'm sure you wouldn't want someone kicking you while your down. Firefly was a good show, as was Farscape. You can appricate both, and not pick sides. And Fastline is not that bad. It is relatively well written. Before I get slamed for that, let me explain. It will never win awards but it can have some decent one liners. Which isn't to say I am happy that Firefly is gone. I wish I could have both on the air. I just don't understand why people have to constantly slam one another. It's like the Star Wars/Star Trek thing. I am partial to Star Wars but I don't spend my time belittling Star Trek. I prefer one over the other, but that's just my opinion, and I'm not going to tell a Star Trek person that liking Star Trek is wrong and that their a geek, because who am I to judge? I guess what I'm trying to get at is, we all have our opinions but that doesn't mean we should slam others for having a different one.
"Have you ever been raped?" by Darth Taun Taun	Dec 14th, 2002 03:01:51 AM
Not until now. Thanks, Fox.
BOOOOO! by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 14th, 2002 03:03:05 AM
HISSSSS! BOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Sci-Fi Television by DarkZero	Dec 14th, 2002 05:01:47 AM
Lots of people are trying to save Firefly, but I really wonder whether it should stay alive in this kind of environment. We obviously don't want it in "The Reality Game Show Network", aka Fox, because Fox has no respect for dramas, sci-fi or otherwise, and does everything they possibly can to manipulate the show's storytelling without blatantly telling a second party production crew "change that, now" on every episode and pissing them off. But do we really want it going to another network? UPN's answer to fix Enterprise's ratings isn't a more compelling story or characters that aren't flatter than pancakes, but instead (I know you see this one coming)... SEX! More tits, more ass, more muscles, and generally as little clothing as possible. And the Sci-Fi Channel, despite being hands-off as far as the story goes, still does everything they can to abuse their shows. They put them on hiatus for nearly six months in the middle of storylines and then bring them back for a handful of episodes, and their commercials ruin every single show on the channel. Every episode of Farscape and SG-1 airs commercials that show the main turning point of the episode before every airing, leaving you with a really, REALLY boring first half hour to forty minutes of every show, and every episode of Taken has ran commercials FOR THE EPISODE YOU'RE WATCHING midway through the episode that shows its last five minutes. And The WB... well, they're pretty cancellation happy. Roswell, Buffy, and Birds of Prey were all cancelled on The WB, Angel's always been on thin ice, and its sister channels like TNT have openly expressed that hatred of all things sci-fi/fantasy with the exception of Charmed, which is decent afternoon filler. ---- Even if Firefly were a formulaic action show about a bunch of teenagers getting it on like crazed weasels whenever they're not punching someone in the head, it would be on thin ice. Instead, it's a really ambitious show that aims more toward sci-fi novels and anime than the common denominator. It looks like it's screwed, either by being cancelled or getting similarly horrible treatment from another network.
I didn't care that much for Firefly when it first came on... by Mindtrip	Dec 14th, 2002 11:32:57 AM
... but over the past few weeks, I have really come to enjoy it. The past two episodes actually made me react by clapping and laughing out loud. I broke my promise tomyself this year of never watching another genre show on FOX, escpeciialy on on Friday nights, because they continue to rape their audience by canceling shows that don't get what they think is enough viewers. WAKE THE FUCK UP FOX!!!!!!! There are never going to be enough viewers in the demographic you seek on Friday nights! The number of people in that range don't stay home on Friday nights and watch TV! And those of us who do watch, you continue to demonstrate that we don't mean shit to you by continually hyping and then canceling the shows we watch. Oh well, here's hoping that another network will pick them and reap the rewards for doing so. Mindtrip
that was Joss? by Nada Lives	Dec 14th, 2002 11:41:03 AM
That may have been the worst episode to carry the "Written and Directed by Joss Whedon" credit ever. For one the bounty hunter character beared more than a passing resemblance to the Stalker bounty hunter from "Batman Beyond." Then there are huge plot holes that you could fly the Serenity through - the bounty hunter knows all about the crew, but only ties up one of them? They set up that Stalker might be of the same mental condition as River but never take it further than him being able to aim his gun without looking? I think my biggest complaint though are the sudden changes in character, mainly River. She goes from incomprehensible rambling to speaking in a perfectly normal voice after she goes to Stalker's ship? The last time we saw River in a space suit she acted like she was a child dressed for Halloween, but now she knows how to walk in space to take over another spacecraft? Granted there were those great moments that set most of Whedons stuff apart - like Jayne's drool and Stalker commenting that "he ain't no shepherd, but this ep was in desperate need of a rewrite. I guess when you know the series is over there's no point in wasting the time to get it up to normal Jossian levels.
Me and Qwerty blasted in the same post? by Anyawatcher	Dec 14th, 2002 12:29:17 PM
that must be a first. Next thing you know I'll be making fat jokes. Another great episode and another reason why River kicks ass. Funny how Joss made a better Bounty Hunter than Lucas did in episode 2-clone that guy and you'll have some bad ass troopers. Talking about rape in the "family hour" what will the PTC think. Call the WB and have them put Firefly against that Star Trek crap. Trollmaster-you may not post but you will look. Trollmaster is so fat when he sits around the house he REALLY sits around the house.
Wow, Anyawatcher by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 14th, 2002 12:59:42 PM
This kind of makes us like Snake eyes and Stormshadow. Trained by the same Master, driven apart by idealogy, and yet now brought together against a common foe. Its really rather epic, don't you think? ** I don't think Early can aim without looking in the same way River can. She can do it in a spooky way, he was just taunting the docter by showing that he was better and faster than him. And the changes in River are due to the Meds Simon has her on. According to him, she is more lucid, more often, but still has moments of crazy. It was mentioned just last week. So now she can call on her super training.
FOX Can Eat Shit....... by delwin	Dec 14th, 2002 01:15:36 PM
Last nights ep was one of the best I've seen. The show was just getting good. My guess is yes, JW will find a home for this show, I'm not too worried. *********** And YES! pulp_dusk! Whedon should take some work to HBO. What a match that would be. ****** Oh, and FOX can eat shit again.
Defending Doe by raffish	Dec 14th, 2002 01:41:38 PM
pulp_dusk, why would it depress you that people are watching John Doe? Different strokes and all, but I've found it consistently well-executed, intelligent, and surprisingly funny. Furthermore, while Firefly took its own sweet time in getting any significant long-term plot arcs going -- with the exception of the River arc, which is already starting to feel milked dry -- JD leapt into its elaborately-planned mytharc from day one and hasn't let up. As a B5 fan and Buffy fanatic, that's the kind of storytelling that I can appreciate. (And what does any of this have to do with Fastlane?)
I get to be Storm Shadow by Anyawatcher	Dec 14th, 2002 02:21:34 PM
But how can a pussy like Spirit beat up a friggin ninja like Storm Shadow? I think the reason Firefly didn't get into the season long storys and had more stand alone episode was by plan. Joss said that somewhere. He had to know Fox was going to fuck him over and he might not be able to finish his season. Seeing how Fox fucked up the order it was better that way. And John Doe is too CSI. I liked the idea but it's going nowhere. It's the crime of the week show. It's still pretty good but the show is done when we find out what he is. Speaking of CSI anyone remember an early 90's NBC series called UNSUB? think that was the name. it was CSI 10 years ago w/out the DNA. anyway fuck fox-go syndacation or wb.
"Plot holes" by DarkZero	Dec 14th, 2002 02:36:59 PM
Nada: Most of what you're seeing as plot holes were pretty much covered in this episode or past episodes. He only tied one of the crew up because he locked the rest of them in their rooms while they were asleep, presumably to minimize his encounters with the rest of the crew and improve his chances of not dying. He only tied Kaylee up because Kaylee was the only one that was out and about in the ship, rather than in a bunk that could be locked. ---- River went from rambling to coherent because of the medicine. She's simultaneously getting better and getting worse, as showed by her expert use of the gun one episode back (better) and her reckless near-abuse of a gun early on this episode. She's going in and out of sane. ---- As for the thing with Early turning out to just be crazy after the huge amounts of setup for him being like River, well, yes, that sucked. They gave him almost every symptom that River displayed in the beginning of the show, most of them absolutely identical, and then suddenly dropped it later on.
To Any Fox Execs. Reading This!! by xanman	Dec 14th, 2002 03:28:15 PM

To any fox execs reading this... by xanman	Dec 14th, 2002 03:33:15 PM
you are a bunch of cowards beholden to nothing but money!! God forbid a quality show that only(?!?) draws about 4 million (not including us Canadian viewers up here) should stay on the air. It's not a hit. Stop trying to be a major network cause no has ever believed you actually were. Stick with producing shows and movies and please get out of the broadcasting business since you could care less about the fans!! Shame for cancelling Firefly!
Cancelled.I can't can't believe .. by Tuesday	Dec 14th, 2002 09:52:22 PM
Cancelled. I love this show! Fox sucks, first Dark Angel now Firefly! (btw, I really don't understand people wasting so much time and energy on dumping something they don't like or just to get a rise out of someone else, if you don't like it ok. Go to a talkback of a show you do like. It's not brain surgery and you people sure ain't no Doc Brown.Freaks) Anyway, I don't pay much attention to ratings but I don't believe Dark Angel's ratings were bad, I thing I've heard Firefly's were not so great, but I think it doesn't have anything to do with ratings. I think some crazed phycho is heading up Fox. Some dark sick dumb deranged mother fucking phycho.
'Firefly' Fades to Black by GroovyChk	Dec 15th, 2002 12:41:41 AM
According to Zap2it.com the show looks like it's cancelled. They mention the previously mentioned "hiatus". Sigh. http://tv.zap2it.com/news/tvne wsdaily.html?29334
John Doe was capped by John Preston by turk128	Dec 15th, 2002 12:52:44 AM
Go see Equilibrium.
Plot Holes by Darquon	Dec 15th, 2002 02:26:51 AM
Here's something that makes no sense... These guys are space pirates. Why didn't they take Early's ship? Or at least loot it and make sure he can't get back to it and come after them again? Like maybe in an upcoming episode...
Not Space Pirates by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 15th, 2002 03:58:16 AM
They're a cargo ship that occasionally smuggles. The crew in Alien Resurrection were Space Pirates.
If you're reading this Fox... by SoldierSquirrel	Dec 15th, 2002 08:33:40 AM
Just answer one question: do you honestly expect ratings to be huge when you air the show on the one night of the week most people are out having fun? Firefly and 24 are the best shows on television this season. I know MANY people who watch and love both. Give Firefly a chance! Put it on Monday or Thursday and PROMOTE the thing. If you don't, I sincerely hope UPN scoops it up and you get to watch it explode in popularity, as I know it will next season.
I'm still Mad at FOX for... by KingOfCrows	Dec 15th, 2002 06:25:10 PM
cancelling Warewolf, Futurama, Good Grief, Sliders, and WOOPS.
so... by Tuesday	Dec 15th, 2002 06:34:25 PM
If Firefly doesn't get picked up by another station, and this really is Buffy's last season, and the WB does decide to cancel Angel after this season ... what's up Joss? Did you like piss off a gypsie recently and got a curse thrown at you or what? And if you did, what were you thinking, what are we supposed to do now?!!!
That was... by superfriend	Dec 15th, 2002 08:19:14 PM
one great episode, that bounty hunter was like a funny boba-fett.
dammit, I was starting to get into this show by Tall_Boy	Dec 15th, 2002 08:48:28 PM
offically canceled, well, not taken off the slot but FOX didn't order any new episodes. Dangit, I was really starting to get into it. (even though I always missed it & had to DL episodes due to a crappy timeslot)
HELP ME SAVE FIREFLY.... by ladyhumper	Dec 15th, 2002 09:18:25 PM
please goto http://www.FIREFLYSUPPORT.com and send AS many POSTCARS to the folks at UPN and CBS. WE NEED ALL THE SUPPORT WE CAN GET!!!!!! I MADE 240 postcards at kinkos for $25.00. COME ON, put your money where your mouth is. I did. Help me save this show!!!!
Still pissed... by SG7	Dec 16th, 2002 04:43:24 AM
I mean? What's left? Enterprise? They're already recycling stories so there's a dead end. I mean, I'll still watch Stargate and what's left of Farscape(although 'scape has gotten dumb lately) Firefly was refreshingly original while still feeling oddly familliar. They had a great cast and consistently great writing. I liked every ep I saw. Yet fox keeps the insipidly predictable and forumlaic John Doe? I just don't fucking get it. I mean, Fox buys the show, bungles the promotion and savages it with baseball and drops it into the Friday night death slot. Is this just Fox putting Joss and Mutant Enemy in their place? Showing the successful big shot writer/producer/director who's boss? Here's to hoping the show finds a home on a more appreciative network. Heck UPN could run in Wednesdays so they can have a show that doesn't suck that night.
River is the Captain H.M. 'Howling Mad' Murdock of Firefly by pedant	Dec 16th, 2002 10:59:01 AM

Yes! PROFIT ruled! by vinylsaurus	Dec 16th, 2002 01:18:50 PM
I wish I'd taped it when it was on so I could show other folks what a cool program it was. I tried to get all of Action when it was on FX but missed a couple. I wish they'd release the complete series, un-bleeped, on DVD - hell, Sports Night did it so maybe there's hope. Oh yeah, and Firefly too, while I'm wishin'
Symposia vs. symposiums by Gislef_crow	Dec 16th, 2002 03:56:47 PM
>>Also, John Doe, the correct plural of "symposium" is NOT "symposiums," it's "symposia." >> Funny - my Webster's Ninth dictionary lists both as acceptable plural versions.
Space pirates by Darquon	Dec 16th, 2002 05:22:53 PM
If not pirates, they are at least space scavengers. They plunder a derelict ship in that Reaver episode. In the as-yet-unaired pilot, they steal several crates of food from a derelict ship. When Jubal Early is sent floating, I would say that his ship qualified as 'derelict'. Now then, I repeat my question: How dumb is it that they didn't loot and/or steal Early's ship at the end of the episode? (of course, if they'd taken his ship, it would be harder to write Early back into a future episode, but that's all the more reason they should have stolen it. Just to guarantee he couldn't come back.)
UPN, take Firefly - please by GypsyTRobot	Dec 16th, 2002 05:30:54 PM
There has to be some crummy show that can be kicked off UPN to make way for Firefly. At least I hope these eppies rerun somewhere, my VCR conked out after lo these many years. About the bounty hunter - I didn't think River was talking about him being a psychic, rather a PSYCHO. His mom was glad to see him go because he was a PSYCHO. He threatened Kaylee with rape and philosophized ramblingly because he was a PSYCHO. Now River is both psychic and a PSYCHO, the latter quality gave her something in common with Early. Who by the way, is coming back because this is a JOSS WHEDON show. If a bad guy doesn't die on screen and the actor doesn't acquire a movie career, the character stands a good chance of returning to the show. I mean, if UPN picks it up.
I Never Saw This Show. And You Know Why? by Atlantis2001	Dec 16th, 2002 06:33:36 PM
Because I knew this would happen. It looked really good but it looked like a FOX show they were going to give the greenlight just to later shoot it down.It pains me to say this,but I knew this would happen.Kinda sad,that FOX has most of the best shows on TV (The Simpsons,24,That 70's Show, Futurama,and Fastlane,which some people don't like but I've grown to love) and yet they still make many endlessly bad decisions.
that excuse is so lame... by EveKendall	Dec 16th, 2002 10:05:03 PM
You didn't watch it because it was doomed to fail? That makes my blood boil every time I hear it. I've said it once and I'll say it again... if you don't watch it OF COURSE it's going to fail. So Fox has some of the best shows on TV, but they're making bad decisions? Hmmm, well if they don't give good shows a chance how did 24 manage to stay on the air? BECAUSE IT GOT DECENT RATINGS! I do agree that Fox mangled the promotion (what promotion?) and decisions regarding Firefly (HEY! here's an idea... let's show all of the episodes out of order! That'll bring in the viewers!), but really it all boils down to not enough people were watching. And this has to be the 90,000th time I've heard the "I didn't watch because I knew it would be canceled" line. Lame, lame, lame. Don't "cry" over the show or Fox's bad decisions unless you actually sat through more than one episode. All that does is rub salt in the wounds of the fans who have been there for every episode. Useless rant over.
Tell him Eve Kendall! by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 16th, 2002 10:47:02 PM

Firefly Cancelled! HIP, HIP HORRAY! by Henri	Dec 17th, 2002 01:00:45 AM
Fox can eat shit for cancelling a good show like Dark Angel and replaced with a lousy and now cancelled Firefly. DA4ever!
After what Fox did to THE TICK, this doesn't surprise me by KingKrypton	Dec 17th, 2002 01:01:06 AM
FIREFLY fans, I feel your pain. Between Fox's TV division and WB as a whole, I don't know who makes the worse decisions.
ah.. by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 17th, 2002 03:03:50 AM
Dark Angel... God, that show still makes me laugh just to think of it.
Dark Angel? by Anyawatcher	Dec 17th, 2002 10:55:29 AM
You mean the show that crossed DNA between Humans and muppets. I actually watched the series finale of DA-wow what a bunch of dog shit. That show was such a Buffy wannabe and it failed on all levels. I think tv guide name Dark Angel the worst show your not watching.
FIREFLY HAS BEEN CANCELLED! SciFi.com scoops AICN! by WarDog	Dec 17th, 2002 11:45:55 AM
Whedon has confirmed it. A shame. It was actually showing some improvement and getting me to like the characters more of late.
Oops! Sorry, guess SciFi.com didn't scoop the TalkBackers. by WarDog	Dec 17th, 2002 11:50:08 AM
And I, too, and really pissed off at FOX. Those assholes can never get it when it comes to quality genre TV. They always fuck it up and then cancel it. As if they never really wanted it on in the first place. I hope WB or UPN surpasses them in the overall network ratings game, and there are mass firings at Fox Television. STARTING WITH THAT CONSUMMATE SHITHEAD, SANDY GRUSHOW!
Manualde, you are my hero! by vinylsaurus	Dec 17th, 2002 03:28:48 PM
I'm calling the cable company and getting Trio right away(and then setting up the SVHS)
firefly by Genome	Dec 17th, 2002 06:41:10 PM
Take ma home, take ma land, take me where i cannot stand, but u cant take the ----- from me, u cant the ------ from me...am i the only one that got hooked on the theme song for firefly. dunno all the werdz yet but im gettin there!
He's saying "ska" by chickenmonkey	Dec 17th, 2002 07:50:46 PM
Ur at least, that's ma interprotayshun.
DA4ever! by Henri	Dec 17th, 2002 11:35:03 PM
Dark Angel is no Buffy wannabe, but instead it is the antiBuffy!
Dark Angel is no Buffy wannabe, but... by Henri	Dec 17th, 2002 11:54:15 PM
instead, Dark Angel is the anti-Buffy.
SIGHN THE ONLINE PETITION TO SAVE FIREFLY. http://www.savefirefl by The Outlander	Dec 18th, 2002 09:40:31 AM
SIGHN THE ONLINE PETITION TO SAVE FIREFLY. http://www.savefirefly.com/
Report from the "silver lining" department... by Mistah Kurtz	Dec 18th, 2002 11:11:34 PM
I really hope that UPN picks up the series and we get many more years of Firefly-ish happiness. However, if that doesn't happen, just keep telling yourselves: this is one step closer to Joss doing movies. And "Ripper." But mostly movies: the very idea of going to the multiplex and seeing the words "A Joss Whedon Film" flash across the screen excites me (not sexually) (maybe a little). Movies; "Ripper"; movies. That's my mantra. **** And now, to finish in a lowbrow manner: Henri, speaking of eating shit, how's your mom doing?
Why is it... by Zone Zero	Dec 19th, 2002 01:02:43 AM
That AICN bothers to post more and more phanboi rant infested droppings on LOTR:TTT and ignore the fact that Firefly needs some HARDCORE help to find a new home! I reccomend UPN quite frankly. They need Firefly. One more thing, Firefly does not equal Outlaw Star. So what if there's 2 similarities? Get off of it, my fellow otakus. Firefly deserves support. And if I catch any of you Farscape wanks giggling, I will make you ph33r me. ph33r z0n3 z3r0. ! 0wn on H@1f 1!f3: D3@+#m@+c# C1@$$!c.
Actually Zone Zero by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 19th, 2002 01:35:45 AM
There's only 1 similarity: River in the box. The other: River becoming the ship, was obviously posted by some moron who hadn't seem the entire episode, since she didn't become the ship, she was actually on the Bounty Hunter's the whole time.
I hate to say it, but by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 19th, 2002 01:37:32 AM
Joss has done movies before. Two come to mind, the Buffy movie, of course, and Aliens 4 and neither were as good as his TV shows. So I'm hoping he keeps doing TV. If he goes to movies, what will I watch?
PUZZLE by chickenmonkey	Dec 19th, 2002 07:32:17 PM
In the opening teaser of this episode, after the exterior shot of Serenity flying past a distant CGI planet (mirrored with the CGI Super-Hi-Bounce ball at the end of the ep), anyway, after all that, River wakes up and does a bit of wandering into the minds of her shipmates. When she's "reading" someone, time seems to skip, and the person being read vogues for the camera and says something cryptic. The first one she reads is her brother, and from there I make my hypothesis. *** Simon: "I would be there right now." He says this later, to Kaylee, in the hallway when discussing how his sister's madness has forced him to become a fugitive on Serenity, abandoning his career at his hospital. "I would be there right now, if it weren't for..." * My theory is this: This episode is to Firefly's future as "Restless" (and more recently "Help") was to Buffy's, and each of River's readings of the crew are future (and past) lines of dialogue from key, resonating scenes. * 0: The VERY FIRST of which actually occurs in the first couple seconds of the episode, after the CGI flight through the guts of Serenity to the airduct camera shot of River awakening. A muted jumble of voices are heard, with the last being Book, saying, "We're all just floating." (I didn't see "Out of Gas" (the likeliest suspect for where this quote came from), so I say, future? Maybe?) * 1: Simon: "I would be there right now" Future, seven minutes hence, "Objects in Space" * 2: Jayne: "I got stupid. The money was too good." Past, referencing his failed kidnap/reward plot, "Ariel" * 3: Book: "I don't give half a hump if you're innocent or not. So where does that put you?" Distant past before Shepherdhood? All-too-near future as revealed traitor? Who knows. * 4&5: Wash & Zoe: Sexfest. Present. * 6: Inara: "I'm a big girl, just tell me." Wow, is she already fed up with the Moonlighting/Pretty Woman storyline, too? * 7: Mal: (Now, this line is delivered with a lump in his throat, and just watching it again breaks my heart for no good reason. Except maybe Firefly's cancellation, and the fact that perhaps none of these supposed hints will ever come to fruition.) "None of it means a damn thing." ...? *** Anyway, the reason I say all these things are super-probable as hints to future episodes is that it WAS an episode penned by Joss. With that said, I also suspect a familial (as well as professional) tie between Jango and Boba. I mean Book and Urley. Especially if you ever see Book with a picture of a golden retriever... And that line of dialogue where Urley thinks Simon has asked if he was a lion really seemed like it was heading somewhere...
Book's thought. by Qwerty Uiop	Dec 20th, 2002 12:37:58 AM
His was easily the most cryptic comment. I'm not sure what to think of it. I've long suspected he was, at least, some ex-higher up in the Alliance. But now? His comment with said with such vehemence. The Alliance jumps after looking at his papers, he knows the workings of illegal space scavengers, he's no stranger to fire fights and Urly recognizes him. AND he did join the crew the same time as River and Simon. Maybe he's a spy for a separate faction within the Alliance that wants to keep her away from the Bluehands. The fact that he wasn't involved in the heist, conveniently away at a monastery, means Joss knew there would be some kind of unexplainable conflict if Book were present, so who is he? What if he turns out to be the Alliance "president", if they have such a role, doing the king dressed as a peasant type of thing. At the very least he's ex-military. If this show doesn't get picked up, I hope they reveal who he really is before the end.
don't that just beat all... by EveKendall	Dec 20th, 2002 02:17:58 PM
http://www.fireflysupport.com/ statement.html Go muppets!

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