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Want to talk to J.J. Abrams about his... um... SUPERMAN thing Moriarty Reviewed' or Ratner' Click Here To Find Out How!

I with ya all the way Harry ) by JFSebastian	Sep 26th, 2002 06:37:46 AM

're-imagining' by Ali786	Sep 26th, 2002 06:41:00 AM
lets hope it doesn't end up like Planet of the Apes, where a classic was re-imagined into a nice pile of shit.
re-imagining cont'd by Ali786	Sep 26th, 2002 06:42:29 AM
and I STILL can't work out the ending..makes no sense
Just signed it. by KID AB	Sep 26th, 2002 06:43:46 AM
I just hope that with enough voices we can actually make J.J. ABRAMS, JON PETERS AND HACK RATNER, THINK ABOUT THE CHARACTER THAT US FANS REALLY WANT AND A STORY THAT DOES JUSTICE TO THE ONLY SUPERHERO ICON. I know they might not listen but i live in hope.
Wait until I get my hands on that bastard... by CoolDan989	Sep 26th, 2002 06:48:47 AM
OK, maybe I can't, because I don't live anywhere near that Barnes and Noble, but my Voodoo doll kit will be open tonight...
Well bloody said Harry! by Splinter	Sep 26th, 2002 06:50:46 AM
That's your best editorial in a loong time big fella - got my blood boiling!
Sit back and relax... enjoy it. HARRY responds to Die Fl... by HEADGEEK	Sep 26th, 2002 06:53:20 AM
Look, AICN isn't about just sitting back and standing in the sidelines as beloved characters are raped by people that show so little respect for the characters. AICN is about having YOUR voice heard, my voice, everyone's voice. This is one of the only places around where Studio folks, Creative types, folks like me and folks like you can talk and discuss the process. The glorious part of the free press, free speech and the ability to organize and rally is that you can affect change, you can reveal "things" that "they" whomever "they" may be, don't want you, me, us to know. Shutting AICN down really isn't an option, because it is also a medium they find useful in spreading word about films, the part they have to swallow is that we also have an opinion. That's why you have the ability to Talk Back, just as I did above and here. And if Brett Ratner wants to comment upon all of this, then he's more than welcome to give me a ring, he's done it before... or he can talk to Quint as he did this past week in L.A. and the process continues.
Superman by TheSymbiont	Sep 26th, 2002 07:09:51 AM
From the day I was born Superman was a part of me. Pictures of me in my Superman pjs and underoos. This story that JJ has wrote is not Superman. Why would they start all over with how he got here. Why not just start the story from after that. I am a writer or I should say aspiring writer and I could do a better job. This is almost as sad as a day for Superman as it was when Nicholas Cage first came to be apart of Superman. Maybe this will end the same way with JJ out. Who would I chose to do Superman. M. Night Shamaylan, (hope I spelled it right). He would do a true story, a story that would take Superman beyond the clouds, but a story true to the character. If this story is made they will make the money but it won't be for the film but for the FX. And T&A if Jones or Lopez become Lois Lane. Well if any of you hollywood types read this. Someone call JJ and tell him he's about to tear Superman apart and ruin him for the future generations who many never hear the true start of Superman. Instead the will hear an adaptation of a hero made selfishly for money. Superman was created in 1938 yes a long time ago and maybe some have great ideas how they could make it a better story. But if you want to be original - Make your own damn Super hero. Don't paint over an existing one!
warner bros by reni	Sep 26th, 2002 07:12:25 AM
If this version of Superman is true then you're gonna have people laughing their 'bollocks' off at how much you'ved changed the original story. Even non-fans know the origins of Superman. No one will take it seriously. But it's your money, your movie. You probably think this is what the modern audience wants to see. High concepts. Big FX. Radical changes to make the pitch look different to people. Possibly. Just remember what you did to Batman.
Oh come on by spider-ham	Sep 26th, 2002 07:46:45 AM
I hate this version of superman as much as the next guy but why the hell do we need to start boycotting everything? This is stupid. So a crappy movie gets made. Why should I punish myself by not reading the comic, the comic book store own which could make more money working at Blockbuster or the people creating the comic? I completely understand rasing a fuss about the script and bringing it to WB attention that it sucks. This though, it just going too far.
Minor Details?! by TheAbstruseOne	Sep 26th, 2002 07:51:50 AM
Saying these are "minor details" that are being changed would be like saying "Bruce Wayne's parents never died and The Joker is a half-cyborg that's 15 feet tall" are just "minor changes" to Batman. Krypton exploding is key to Superman's character. He's a man without a home, without a family, without a people. He's an orphan in the truest sense of the word. He was raised in small town America and, because of that, grew up with small town America values of truth, justice, and the American way. He has the power to pretty much rule the world if he wants to. But he doesn't. He uses his powers to help the people of the world -- his adopted world. He doesn't have to. It's not his home. But he CHOSES to. Read some of the signatures on the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/ sprmn5/ and see what people think. More than a few of these signatures are from people who are basically saying "I'm not a big fan of Superman, BUT..." You can ask any 4 year old what happened to Superman's home planet and odds are they'll look at you like you're retarded for having to ask before answering, "It blew up." Lex Luthor is not a super-powered bad-ass. Like Harry said, it's always been about brains vs. brawn. The power of corruption vs. the power of good. Lex Luthor is a billionaire industrialist whose technology basically built Metropolis from the ground up. Superman is just one person who stands up for the little guy against this corruption. That's the CORE of the character of Superman. If you take that away, you take away from what Superman means as a symbol. BTW, if anyone is going to this event, please bring the petition to Mr. Abram's attention. We've now gotten over 1000 signatures in barely 3 days and it's growing by the minute. Let Warner Bros. know how you feel! The Abstruse One Darryl Mott Jr.
Find me one fanboy with the sack to give Abrams a serve. by Cash Bailey	Sep 26th, 2002 07:52:56 AM
And take some photos while you're at it.
GO SIGN THE PETITION NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it needs thousands by thegoldencalf	Sep 26th, 2002 07:54:23 AM
die fl - you are fucking weak. get some balls. instead of being forcefed all the bullshit hollywood makes why can't we try and make a difference, preserve some dignity. it wouldn't suprise me if in a few years there will be huge mental institutions full of execs rolling around in large pits of hundred dollar bills, cackling loudly.
by NED HONDO	Sep 26th, 2002 07:55:09 AM
methinks DIE FLEDERMAUS is a warner brothers mole. who else would use as an argument point - the possible explosion of krypton in the second film? what type of wild claim is that, unless you know more than you should have slipped? back to your ferraris and drinks on the terrace. this sounds like such a bad premise, kinda like casting harry in a remake of showgirls - as the lead PS i dont even like superman that much
by NED HONDO	Sep 26th, 2002 08:04:16 AM
my fav. petition quote is 1126. hahaha...
Dammit, where's Michael Moore when we REALLY need him? by the G-man	Sep 26th, 2002 08:04:25 AM
Forget ENRON. Forget WorldCom. This is corporate greed at its worst.
You'll believe a man can fly by snappy	Sep 26th, 2002 08:05:15 AM
Remember that tag line? Think of the wonder Superman inspires in normal people when he swoops in to save them from certain death. He is the ultimate hero, wishing he could save everyone but knowing there's only so much he can do. His iconic status comes from his innate nobility, his readiness to put others before himself every time. He is an example to countless generations of kids - a super-man to aspire to. And now WB wants to "reimagine" him for a new audience; pile on the sexual tension and the angst; turn him into just another hero with human failings. And don't forget the wire-fu; Supes should land supersonic haymaker punches on his foes, not spin kicks. We don't need all these changes. The basic origin and character is sound, and though I take Die F's point about this being a first draft, I expect some of JJA's more, um, radical ideas to carry through to the final draft given Warner's propensity for messing-up their superhero film properties. So, what to do? Petitions - yes. Harassing the screen writer - no. Boycott Superman products - possibly, but only once there is more definite information (later drafts) and bear in mind this could be counterproductive: if the suits see the traditional fanbase has deserted the character, they may feel vindicated in redesigning him for a new audience. I was never really a Superman fan growing up, Bats floated my boat, but I recognise the power in a character that might make bad decisions occasionally but would die before he did wrong or hurt an innocent. He has sworn to protect his adoptive planet and its inhabitants, regardless of colour or religion, so to have him leave to become King of Krypton, or whatever, just doesn't fit. Ramble over. Parting words: please, WB, don't make this film unless you intend to be true to the source material.
Donner's SUPERMAN perfect? Er, no. by Sheamus	Sep 26th, 2002 08:05:49 AM
No movie is PERFECT. I guess you may have meant a perfect adaptation but even then I'd disagree - the main plot of SUPERMAN was lousy, Margot Kidder is too unattractive to play Lois Lane (I mean, who'd fancy her in that film? She's ugly, she's got a repulsive personality, she smokes, etc etc... She must stand for everything Supe's doesn't represent. Hmm, maybe that's the appeal, but it wasn't that way in the books, or in LOIS & CLARKE or other Supes adaptations.) Plus WAY too much comedy and the ending was a joke. As I stated elsewhere, he's unbeatable with turn-back time powers. He can just keep going and going. He didn't even look tired after it happened! And as for boycotting, gotta agree with a NO. I agree this script looks lousy, but it's almost certainly a very early draft and no doubt WB and others will take note of the overly negative feedback and makes changes. And sometimes fanboy responses to casting and scripts is way off - HUGH JACKMAN as WOLVERINE for example. When that was announced it didn't go down too well. But Jackman IS Wolverine. He's now more Wolverine to most people - even fans of the comics - than the 2D or cartoon version. Not to mention Christopher Reeve as SUPERMAN (seventh choice I believe), Ewan McGregor as OBI WAN, Toby Maguire as SPIDER-MAN, Christian Bale as PATRICK BATEMAN, etc. All receive stick when announced, all well received now (esp. Bale). I say leave it alone. Every Web Site has reacted to the AICN 'scoop' on this - and the slating the script has got - so thats going to more than some half-assed pseudo "Web-strike."
revisionist history by notageek	Sep 26th, 2002 08:10:15 AM
I'm sorry -- but didn't we already have FOUR of these films? With the first two being the high water mark for super-hero fare? Is the world clamoring for "Superman/by way of Episode 1 and the Matrix"??? I don't think so. Call this script something else -- or make a new CGI film about MICKEY MOUSE and make him into a SQUIRREL instead for 2005! Who needs recognizable pop mythology anyway? (insert sarcasm here...)
like hurling stones at a battleship by Fearsme	Sep 26th, 2002 08:10:36 AM
Harry, Mori, i've been coming to this site for 2 years now, and i've slowly been won over by your tireless passion and fanatical devotion. I respect you guys a great deal. And while i agree that Warner Bros. is a black hole of creativity and integrity, this fight will get you nowhere. These guys are going to make this movie regardless. You are right though, cutting off the money will hurt. But it will hurt the comic writers and artists who are underpaid anyway. THey say that you have to "vote with your dollar" WHy dont we all go out and buy a Superman comic, then mail it to Warner Bros. to tell them that this is how we want the story to be told? That way, we support the good comic writers while sending a message to the retarded movie studios. That's just an idea....
Do we want the origin again though? by Sheamus	Sep 26th, 2002 08:20:39 AM
I'm tired of origin stories; it means naff baddies and just a "re-imagining" (puke) of something that's already been done, and in this case, reasonably well (Donner's SUPERMAN). I mean SPIDER-MAN needed to be told from scratch because the previous Nicholas Hammond efforts were a joke. Superman is very different. I mean I can't see them doing BATMAN from scratch again (hopefully). I suppose they're trying to appeal to a new generation of fans who may not be familiar with the 1978 movie, but I'd much rather seem them move Superman forward (i.e., to the energy version or whatever), and try something new. How about a JUSTICE LEAGUE movie instead. Sans the fucking WONDER TWINS of course. :)
He's full of shit... by Jon Zuckerman	Sep 26th, 2002 08:22:20 AM

He's full of shit... by Jon Zuckerman	Sep 26th, 2002 08:22:20 AM

He Doesnt have Superman#1 by Jon Zuckerman	Sep 26th, 2002 08:24:22 AM
Arent there only a few in existance and I remember reading in the mid 80s each was worth a fortune(WAY of 100k then). He has the money but I doubt the owners of those books would want to give them up.
Think strategically ... by adriantullberg	Sep 26th, 2002 08:35:43 AM
(1) Recruit Allies - celebrities that will speak out publicly. News Networks and print media that compete against Time Warner (2) Study History - have petitions, protests, and the like actually worked? Find out which tactics have worked in the past and use them accordingly.
mmm, super by Unsafe_breadbin	Sep 26th, 2002 08:38:16 AM
Well I do have to say that I'm not a superman fan. All that truth, justice and the american way gibberish just puts me right off (though being from the UK might explain that one). But even so, the plot of this script does sound a bit cack-handed. The human alien hunter (Luthor) turns out to be an alien himself? the main characters father turns out to be alive after all? Sounds like one of those scripts churned out by an auto-generation joke website. If someone wants to do a good flying man superhero flick, do Iron man. Or better still, a belated sequel to The Rocketeer. And if they must do Superman again, why not a period piece set in the 50's? Personally, I can't see it being a winner anyway. Old Kal-El is supposed to be perfect and invincible after all, and kids these days like their heroes a bit damaged and humanised.
Don't the idiots at WB realize they will sell more merchandi by banshee	Sep 26th, 2002 08:45:55 AM
Hey WB, you'll sell more toys and stuff if you actually make a good movie. Which Batman toys sold more, the movies or animated show versions?____Also, if you do this...thing, you'll be missing out on the crossover potential of Smallville. The tv show might actually pick up viewers if it's tied to the film.____I'm telling you right now, if you make this script, sure, the opening weekend will be big, the movie might even do $150 million domestic, but the sequels will tank and you'll take a beating from the critics both in the press and on the web.____Didn't the failure of Batman and Robin and the success of Spiderman teach you guys anything? No? Give me a call and I'll explain it to you.
BUT HARRY!?? by timmer33	Sep 26th, 2002 08:50:17 AM
We've already seen the Superman genesis story! Why do you want Ratner and company to remake it? Why not make a fun superhero movie that changes things around a little bit? So what if it's not the original story. YOU'RE ARGUING ABOUT A SUPERHERO BORN ON KRYPTON for christ's sake. IT'S FICTIONAL, HARRY, and it can be switched around. Stop crying man. You sound like such a bitch-ass geek. Let them make the damn film and then take it for what it's worth -- A COMIC BOOK movie.
Changes are fine but keep the basics... by superzario	Sep 26th, 2002 08:56:32 AM
...Superman can survive some changes on the big screen. Spiderman did Batman would have if not for everything else being so crappy. The only thing is you have to keep the basic concepts. I saw the count of Monte Cristo this weekend and was reminded Superman. The rich guy who has everything is jelous of the guy who has what his money can'y get him. So he uses his resources to destroy the object of his jelousy. I even see this basic idea being the reason for the futre split between Lex and Clark on smallville. This is the key to the Good vs Evil aspect of Superman. Superman can be a complex story but if WB wants to make a balls to the wall good v bad action movie this has to be at the heart of the film. Every other non-comic version of superman gets it,(Even "Lois and Clark") this jabronie dose not.
Harry is right !!! Sad day for Superman by paulyd30	Sep 26th, 2002 09:04:00 AM
Everyone on this planet knows Superman is the greatest superhero ! Superman DOSE NOT need to be re-imajined ! This will kill the Superman we know and love. I keep thinking I am going to wake up from this bad dream. It is trully a sad day for a Superman Fan. Thanks Harry well said !
This Just In: Abrams Now Living With Salman Rushdie/ Rushdie Mor by Son Of Batboy	Sep 26th, 2002 09:07:13 AM
It can't be!!! I thought this script was all just a bad dream, but now I'm reminded of the awful truth. Just tell me one thing, that part about the attempted rape of Martha Kent, THAT part was a dream, right? HEY HARRY, quit flashing your beaver and bring back THIS ISLAND EARTH.
HARRY GET ON TV!! by Mr Chuff	Sep 26th, 2002 09:22:57 AM
Anyone who's anyone will remember how Harry managed to whore himself around to several TV shows when he saw an advance cut of Episode II. Why can he do the same now? Stir up some controversy man...its the ONLY way Wanker Bros will move on this. They'd eventually HAVE to get someone ON TV ANSWERING to some of the questions people have been screaming on the TB for the last few days......(man? WHY am I getting so involved? I would much rather see Batman back again!?!??!)
You don't need to retell the origin... by RenoNevada2000	Sep 26th, 2002 09:28:32 AM
Just don't have Krypton still in one piece. Have the quick montage origin sequence under the main credits and then get on with the story, but first- line a bird cage with this script...
i agree with die mouse by hager	Sep 26th, 2002 09:28:49 AM
first off, to the talk backer who said, "Recruit Allies - celebrities that will speak out publicly" -- you have to be kidding. what celebrity is going to speak up on behalf of a fucking superman movie? mark hammil? the lead singer of poision? yeah, that'll help. they can't even get on celebrity fear factor. also, i think some of the changes are silly (particularly the lex luthor thing) and it bothers me that the movie will influence the way most people see superman, BUT isn't the tv show a retelling also? what with supes and lex being buddies. no one complains about that. if no changes are made i'll just consider this a What If flick and walk out of the theatre cursing WB much like i curse any filmmaker who takes beloved characters and recreates them (see Shakespeare, william). but i'm not going to protest something that is in the early stages. jesus, this is the same site that got a bunch of fanboys all bunched up over jude law as superman. calm down kids. they've been wrong before. p.s. this whole "raping a character" stuff is just silly. isnt that what one TBer says everytime star I & II is mentioned? i dont see AICN taking down lucas.
Oh, for crying out loud by rev_skarekroe	Sep 26th, 2002 09:30:41 AM
Firstly, those internet petitions NEVER work. Just ask the "no organic web shooters" guys. Second, I rather doubt dozens of hostile, lunatic fanboys accosting a screenwriter at Barnes & Noble will help. More likely, the press will pick up on the ludicrousness (is that a word?) of the situation, and it'll wind up as a "look at the silly geeks" story on the Daily Show or Conan. If do you have the opportunity to encounter Abrams or Rattner or even, God help you, Peters, PLEASE try to be polite, intelligent, and lucid. I think this Superman script's pretty stupid, too. But I'm not going to, y'know, have a cow. sk
CRUCIFY!!!! by Motterman2K3	Sep 26th, 2002 09:35:03 AM
Dear Arrogant WB Executive Fucktards, You should be bound and gagged, sat on a toilet seat wearing nothing but clown feet with 24 video webcam coverage for a period of no less than 3 years 4 months and 22 days. I'd pay 8 dollars for that, which is more than you'll get from me to ever watch your "re-imagining" drivel. Love, Your Biggest Fan.
Considering The Ratings For "Smallville" Tuesday.... by EricAlan69	Sep 26th, 2002 09:38:33 AM
....I don't think anyone is about to boycott the show. Which is fine, actually, because the changes made to the canon mythos on SVille make some semblence of sense, and add dramatic tension and possibilities (esp. the youthful friendship of Clark and Lex), while Abrams script is just ghastly. // e.
Normally, I wouldn't sign on-line petitions... by Bad Guy	Sep 26th, 2002 09:40:42 AM
But, some of the ideas in this script. Oh my God! First of all, do we really need yet ANOTHER Superman, origin story? Not really. The first Burton, Batman movie wasn't an origin story, unless you count The Joker, and look at how successful that was. Everyone knows the origins of these characters already. Why waste valuable screen time rehashing the same stuff? But if you HAVE to do an origin story, keep this in mind:The comics, the great Chris Reeve movie, the animated series, Lois & Clark, Smallville, etc. they've ALL done Supe's origin already. You know what they all had in common? Krypton blows up!!! Abrams didn't even get THAT right!! Jimmy Olsen is gay? That's just there to try to make this story hip and "now". Lex Luthor is Kryptonian?? That's just stupid. They should just wait a few years until the actors on "Smallville" get a little older and make a theatrical "Superman" sequel to that. Just my opinion.
There's No Such Thing as Santa Claus: A Reality Check by snicky	Sep 26th, 2002 09:42:05 AM
Comic books began as, and always have been about, a way to create money-making liscenses and generate revenue. This whining over sullying the mythology of (insert name of beloved superhero here ________) is pollyannish. Superman is owned by AOL/Time-Warner, a huge, faceless media conglomerate that will do ANYTHING to get its hands on your hard-earned dollars. It's. All. About. The. Money. That's nothing new. Get used to it.
Warner Bros' execs - READ THIS by Dark Knight Lite	Sep 26th, 2002 09:46:12 AM
$400 MILLION. That's what Spider-Man grossed, and its a faithful adaptation, not a "re-imagined" version. Did the last big "re-imagined" franchise starter, Planet of the Apes, take off? No, it did not. Did it sell lots of licensed products? No, it did not. Its precisely this kind of "re-imagined" horse manure that Spider-Man showed for what it is. If revenue is the primary driver behind all this, then deliver what the fans want, and the rest of the movie going public will show up in droves.
Typical AICN knee-jerk reaction by You Are Banned	Sep 26th, 2002 09:47:27 AM
Hey people, this is only a FIRST DRAFT, remember? Plus, it is apparently also the first part in a TRILOGY. Remember when Star Wars fans were making excuses for TPM because it was merely setting up the story for the next two movies? Maybe this script is doing the same thing. It's unfair to judge this script without having the other two parts so it can be read as a whole. Personally, I think a Kryptonian Civil War sounds kick-ass. I'd pay to see that! Gee do ya think maybe Krypton gets blown up in the second movie? And as for his costume? Hey, I'm a Supes fan, but even I don't have the foggiest idea where his costume came from, nor do I care. Now, this isn't to say that some parts of the script don't need some work. For example, Kata-Zor can be changed to General Zod to fit in with established continuity. Luthor's character either needs to have his name changed to something else or not be Kryptonian. However, all of these problems can be fixed in the writing process. To sum up, although it's OK to say you don't like this script, you fanboys need to stop overreacting. You can start by admitting that there are parts of the script that sound very good. Then, you can move on to constructively criticize the parts that don't work and suggest ways they can be fixed. But it isn't going to do any good to just whine about it and demand that WB not make the movie, because WB is GOING to make the movie, whether you want them to or not.
Superman...The FLAMETHROWER! by BowlingShirtcom	Sep 26th, 2002 09:48:28 AM
...The kids love that one... MAY THE SCHWARTZ BE WITH YOU!
TV Media and stars by paulyd30	Sep 26th, 2002 09:55:06 AM
yeah Someone contact Entertainment tonight TV show or somthing like that ! Maybe even Christopher Reeves himself. I am sure if some holywood stars that like Superman get behind this we could expose this travesty of Justice to the greatest superHero ever Superman.
Variety says that Ratner is confirmed to direct for a 2004 relea by RawShark	Sep 26th, 2002 09:57:24 AM
But it doesn't mention whether ma and pa kent will be played by Pat Morita and Jeri Ryan or not. The fans deserve to have their voices heard.
Hey, the Superman franchise is already dead! by pparker	Sep 26th, 2002 09:58:34 AM
WB has already killed the franchise in the 80s, Superman 3 was a huge disappointment and The Quest for Peace was a joke, easily the worst big budget superhero movie until Batman and Robin. I thank god for Marvel Entertainment, X-Men is the best superhero movie ever, and I also enjoyed Spiderman very much. 2003 will be a kickass year for comic fans, Daredevil looks nice, and I am sure that X-Men 2 and The Hulk will redefine the genre. Congratulations to Warner for killing Superman as well as Batman, I hope that this movie will be the biggest flop in history so there wont be a trilogy of crap movies. I dont think it would be a good idea to show the destruction of Krypton in the second or third movie. What if the first movie flops so badly that there will never be a second or third one? Then the first movie would make no sense at all and become a warning example of what can happen when you dont treat the source material with the respect it deserves.
For someone with a Tick character as their username, you don' by TheAbstruseOne	Sep 26th, 2002 10:10:41 AM
Let's say your home planet is about to explode. Everyone is doomed to die. And you have a pod that can save the life of one person. You can get in the pod yourself and go to some far-off planet, or you can save the life of your infant son. Jor-El chooses to save the life of his son. You're seriously missing the point if you think you can blow up Krypton whenever you want in the series and have it still have the same impact on the character. Also, if Krypton doesn't explode, where the hell does Kryptonite come from? Because, as I recall from EVERY SINGLE SUPERMAN ANYTHING EVER MADE, Kryptonite is irradiated peices of the planet Krypton that followed the same trajectory and landed on Earth. What would Kryptonite be now with Krypton not blown up? Just some random asteroid that JUST SO HAPPENS to hurt Kryptonians who have been exposed to the light of a yellow sun? Wait, does Superman even get his powers from the yellow sun? Hey, let's have him get his powers from a magic bean! Then we can sell candy versions of the beans and package them as "SuperBeans -- Bring Out The Superman In You!" It's all about the dollar at the end of the day, ain't it? The Abstruse One Darryl Mott Jr.
Mr. Chapel is right by Motterman2K3	Sep 26th, 2002 10:11:14 AM
You can't polish a turd.
Superman : one nail in a bigger coffin by POGOPOPE	Sep 26th, 2002 10:12:55 AM
You know , I don't even like superman ( actually I hate his guts ) but this whole superman fiasco is just one more nail in a very , very huge coffin that pisses me off . I don't like superman but I think his origin and that of the other characters he's surrounded by are solid , why not build on that ? If they wanted to " reimagin " him , why not write a script where he has to leave earth and save another planet or something ? There are other stories out there , we don't need another BORING fucking origin story . It's fucking superman .. every one knows where he came from , it's comon knowledge just like nazis are bad ." Reimagining " is like the plague in hollywood right now . Look at all the " reimagined " crap out there . Unfortunatly , the only real way to effect change or stop hollywood dead in there fucking tracks and make them realize that thier shit is weak is to take all that money away from them . Boycote movies alltogether, destroy the marked , make the cinima a thing of the past . & lets face it , thats never gonna happen . sorry didn't mean to sound so preachy , I just hate this shit .
Can't you whiny little bastards attack him elsewhere? by BankyFan	Sep 26th, 2002 10:17:05 AM
I mean, he's at an unrelated book-signing (apparently for ALIAS) and Harry suggests, with the help of some equally whiny little bastard, that you take that oppurtunity to corner him about SUPERMAN? That's just tactless, and does more to hurt your cause then help it. Don't go cock-knocking the man when it's neither the time nor place for him to be in a comfortable position to respond. I think if Harry had any credibility as a journalist (which he has become, in a sort of way) he would make a request to JJ Abrams. How about an interview? Maybe they talk it through together. But instead, he orders these immaturate and inapporopriate guerilla tactics. I don't like what has been done to Superman either, but I think to attack him out of no where is pretty fucked up.
3 cheers for WB by ungiftedamateur	Sep 26th, 2002 10:19:54 AM
You lot call yourself fans, but what you think are essential Supe origin things were constantly changed eg: 1) Superman couldn't even fly for a lot of years; 2) his costume has changed every few years-originally it was just a triangle with an S; 3) Clark was a doofus; 4) they constantly added new Kryptonians (Zod, Supe GIrl, the dog; Kandor etc); 5) Lana Lang was a recent invention; 6) Luthor was a scientist 7) kryptonite couldn't harm him; 8) his powers have constantly varied; 9() etc There is no timeless tale. I say go on Warners reimagine away
Harry, please keep the petition link up... by jonnyvonpoo	Sep 26th, 2002 10:19:54 AM
... at least for awhile. Obviously, a lot of us feel as strongly as you do about this script. Hopefully, everyone who reads this will hop over and sign the petition, and forward the link to a friend. Protest now, and vote with our dollars later...
Why this is important. by Village Idiot	Sep 26th, 2002 10:24:41 AM
I've read through this talkback, and it seemes that some of you can't understand why so many of us are outraged and turned off by this new Superman project. Well, let me resubmit the following explanation: Why is a Superman adaption that is loayl to the source material important? Because for me and many others, the established Superman mythos is rich with narrative elements that we value. The basic popularity of the character is due to the bare essence of the character, yes, but also to the other aspects of the story; aspects that, for various reasons, resonate strongly; aspects that are worth holding onto; aspects that we are not tired of yet._____Movies could arguably be called the ultimate art form of the 20th and 21st century; certainly they carry the most cultural currency. So it is reasonable for us, the fans with traditionalist leanings, to want to see the film adaption reflect most of the narrative elements we value. Otherwise, not only do we lose the opportunity to see the character fully realized, the trough may be poisoned for future opportunities. Thus, to mangle the slogan from the '92 election, keeping the fanbase happy is largely a matter of "Stick to the story, stupid."__________Still though, I understand the need for revision. It
by ungiftedamateur	Sep 26th, 2002 10:29:31 AM
Let's not all pretend that the Christopher Reeve films were that great or faithful to the comics either: Superman I: what's all this time travel power business. It's such a cheat-Supes could always just put the clock back thereby negating any drama. Superman II: what's all that crap at thend where he can split himself up and fire beams out of his hands; btw: Krytonite never made any sense anyway. Why should rock from your home planet just hurt you but no one else?
The origin is not important anyway by ungiftedamateur	Sep 26th, 2002 10:34:33 AM
By the time of any second film, the origin of Supes is irrelevant as he'll just be some guys with powers. So if he got his power from a magic bean-it would not make any difference for all intents and purposes. e.g Spiderman 2 will standalone from Spiderman 1, so ity would make no difference if he had been bitten by a radioactive dog; or had mech webshooters
BETTER YET BOYCOTT ALIAS!!!!!!!!!!!! by superhero	Sep 26th, 2002 10:35:56 AM
I mean the show almost got cancelled last year and it was already getting tired what with the silly pop whiney music every time a character had a quiet, soulful moment. BOYCOTT ALIAS! GET ABRAM'S PET PROJECT CANCELLED! HURT HIM WHERE IT WILL MATTER TO HIM! TAKE THE FIGHT TO WHERE IT WILL HURT HIM THE MOST! Let's show those bastsrds that the fans REALLY DO MATTER! Spider-Man was successful because A) People had been waiting almost 30 years for a great Spider-Man movie and B) For the most part, it stayed in touch with a LOT of the classical elements of the Spider-Man mythos. Where is this respect for the Superman that has gone on before this project in this script? No where! I mean sure, certain versions pf the character have been different from one another but they always had the same basic elements: Krypton blows up, Kal-El comes to Earth an orphan, is raised by the Kents and becomes a reported for a major metropolitan newspaper in METROPOLIS! I mean, come on you Warner Brothers clowns! How hard is that to fuck up? Apparently very easy seeing as how you keep screwing up one Superman film project after another! Oh, and don't you dare cancel SMALLVILLE for this crapfest. While Smallville may not be perfect it's actually got heart and some respect for the source material behind it. Which is more than you moronic executives will ever have apparently! HOLLYWOOD "FILMMAKERS" SUCK!!!!!!!!!!
Well said Harry... by King Rhythm	Sep 26th, 2002 10:39:23 AM
And once again, to all you fucking zany-for-zany's sake, "aren't I irreverent and iconoclastic", too cool for this planet cunts who actually want to see this pile of shit get made...fuck you.
King Rhythmn Grow up by ungiftedamateur	Sep 26th, 2002 10:43:55 AM
THe story has changed all along his history, he couldn't even fly and didn't have a cape etc. Let's see a new version of the basic character.
this douchebag needs to take that comic out of the frame... by manwiththedogs	Sep 26th, 2002 10:44:35 AM
..and READ the fuckin thing!
Supergay by ungiftedamateur	Sep 26th, 2002 10:48:33 AM
I think they should make more changes-how about have Superman in a love triangle with Lois and Jimmy? What better way than to have a positive gay character, than the Man of Steel
Lois and Clarck by superzario	Sep 26th, 2002 10:52:03 AM
I'd rather see a "Lois and Clarck" movie. At least they got it half right. The relationship half of that show was IMHO perfect. They just screwed up everything when Supes put on the tights. Speaking of tights that would be a part of the superman myoths I could live with being changed for the movie. Tights look dumb in real life and it's not a major factor in the story.
I know I can't type by superzario	Sep 26th, 2002 10:54:56 AM
No need to point it out
Krypton WILL explode by Headshotx	Sep 26th, 2002 11:01:13 AM
Don
The Rat on being a "lifelong" Superman fan by Motterman2K3	Sep 26th, 2002 11:01:54 AM
"I always wanted to do a superhero movie, and what better hero to do than Superman," the "Rush Hour" helmer said. "I have the first Superman comic book framed in my house, and I've had it for years. When I got the call from Warner Bros., I called (Paramount Pictures Motion Picture Group chairman) Sherry (Lansing) and said, 'Look, things come into your life for a reason. ...' There are certain choices I make that I know will affect the rest of my life, and I feel that I was born to direct 'Superman.' I swear, I truly believe that, just like I believe J.J. was meant to write the script. There is so much heart and emotion and soul in his story. In this day and age where there is so much darkness, what better movie to make than one with so much light and positivity." _________ Wow, he's had Action #1 for two whole years. Surely, he'll do a bang up job, eh?
Lets be calm people.... by Mr_B	Sep 26th, 2002 11:01:56 AM
I totally agree that this is in danger of becoming one of those stories at the end of the news, the comic relief story, look at the geeks up in arms about Superman. And the talkbacker who said if you do bring it up at the book signing be calm and professional, was right on the money, otherwise we lose all credibility. Superman doesn't need updating to make him exciting and relevant. He just needs a good story and to be filmed well. The moment when Christopher Reeves first puts on the costume and flies towards the camera still gives me shivers, and that movie was made 20 years ago.
The Rat on the "soul" of the movie by Motterman2K3	Sep 26th, 2002 11:03:45 AM
Ratner has already met with various departments at the studio. "They've done such big movies and understand how to market this type of film," he said. "I've already met with the merchandising and publicity departments -- they are so on top of their game."
Ratner: "They are so on top of their game" by Dannychico	Sep 26th, 2002 11:04:54 AM
Who is this fuck? A middle-schooler?
On Re-imaginings... by JohnnyTremaine	Sep 26th, 2002 11:07:33 AM
Warner Brothers and Die have a point, to an extent. There is nothing wrong with finding a new and fresh approach to a classic character, ex. SMALLVILLE, Burton's BATMAN, and the many versions of Robin Hood, Zorro, and the King Arthur story. I could live with Krypton not exploding until,like Die (WB exec?) suggests, a second part of a trilogy. I could even live with Luthor as a ruthless CIA operative, along with the big reveal of him flying at the end of the movie. My main problem is the silly things that were changed about Superman that serve no purpose whatsoever, and would look retarded on the big screen. Ex. 1) Prince Alber--I mean, a costume in a can? Come ON. Ex. 2) How in the HELL does Superman learn slow motion Matrix-style kung-fu? Superman does not, I repeat, does NOT know martial arts. His fighting style is more John Wayne than Bruce Lee. For a clue, watch the famous brawl in John Ford's THE QUIET MAN. Ex. 3) and 4) Ma Kent is raped? Jimmy Olsen is a flamboyant homosexual? (He would have to be, otherwise why does the script even bring it up?). And lastly, 5) Cut the scene where Superman is ARGUED back to life; I don't care if it was in the comics, the audience simply won't follow you there. It didn't work in FAR AND AWAY and it ruined an otherwise good movie. Just a few suggestions Mr. Abrams, Mr. Ratner, and WB executives. Take or leave what you will.
Calm down, Geeks by kall911	Sep 26th, 2002 11:08:17 AM
You know change isn't always bad. These changes are a bit drastic (and kinda bad/boring), but sometimes you gotta make alterations here and there. remember the organic web shooters? you guys went up the fucking wall on that one, and it was in my opinion a very good change, made spider-man more believable. I don't think for a second that JJ Ab is keeping Krypton just for marketing purposes. that's just a stupid thing to say. star wars didn't make any money off naboo for god's sake. i think he just wants to set up some battle on krypton for the sequel or something. as for the the death of superman storyline (people will believe he can die, remember when it hapened in comics, the media and people were up in arms, believing), but i hope he doesn't do it the way it is in this first draft, 'cos it sounds like weak storytelling. Superman's death and return is a whole movie right there, not just a simple plot twist. in any case, change is sometimes welcomed if done right. some parts of Spider-man were practically verbatim from the books. It worked for the first half, but the second half was god awful. it was one instance where the comic stuff did not translate well. superman would have the same problem. good intro, but bad/cartoony second half. hire the guys from the animated series and let's give this shit a rest.
you saw it here first! by Sugar_Daddy	Sep 26th, 2002 11:32:36 AM
Here's the provisional cast and opening scene of the movie - you heard it here first. Superman - Steve Guttenberg. Momma Kent - Elizabeth Taylor . Father Kent - Richard Roundtree. Lois Lane - Pamela Anderson Lee. Lex Luthor - Mark Wahlberg. Jimmy Olson - Billy Dee Williams. Jor -al - Mickey Rooney. The Warner Brothers logo appears, then the screen turns black. The words appear " Summer 1971 " Cue an overhead shot of a small farmhouse in the middle of nowhere....... It is night, with only a candle on the porch providing light. In the distance moaning can be heard........ A tracking shot leads us into the barn, where, amidst the haystacks, an elderly couple are going at it hot and heavy, canine style, to the strains of Elvis's " Wooden Heart "........ Mr Kent: (excitedley) SAY MAH NAME BITCH!....... (Mrs Kent doesn't respond, instead screams wildly.)..... Mr Kent: Shut yo' mouf! Mrs Kent: But .... I'm talkin' bout... (Mr Kent stares out the window of the barn as a small pod lands in the nearby cornfield.)..... Mrs Kent : talkin' bout..... (Suddenly Mr.Kent looks directly into the camera and grins like a Harlem pimp)...... Mr. Kent: SUUUP-OOOO-MAN! Can ya dig it?....... (The pair jump to their feet and race toward the field, buck naked Cut to an overhead shot of the scene, with the couple running at speed towards the pod, Kent clutching at a purple thong to save his blushes.......... The Title - Superman - rushes onto the screen
The signing is in --- by RenoNevada2000	Sep 26th, 2002 11:36:01 AM
Los Angeles. (According to the B&N website.) Notify the riot police...
Ungifted amatuer... by King Rhythm	Sep 26th, 2002 11:38:50 AM
First of all: Superman has always had a cape. Second of all: Give that mantra of change a rest. Superman has been able to fly since 1943. Five years out of sixty-four he couldn't fly- that's the reason to make this pile o'shit? Thirdly: Stop acting like a know-all, because, although it really is nothing to proud of, I know more about Supes than you. I guarantee it. Yes, it's sad, but handy and important when WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SUPERMAN. Fourthly: Bite me.
have faith... by ungiftedamateur	Sep 26th, 2002 11:40:57 AM
I do not believe that this script changes the core of the Superman mythology. Superman, in the script, is still what he was: an alien raised by the Kents as their own son, an outsider who has embraced his adopted world, and the ultimate boy-scout. He is still nuts about Louis, a newspaper reporter, and keeping a secret identity. For his first 20-25 years, as far as he knew, he was the last survivor of Krypton and that still shaped him the same. All of the same forces that defined him as a man and hero are all still there. Now, the changes... 1) His enemies are Kryptonian. How must this add to his angst? For so long he thought he was alone, but when he meets his own kind, he must fight them to protect the Earth. Does this not, in fact, serve to reinforce the influences that shaped him into the hero we love? 2) Luthor is a Krytonian. Change the name in the script, and it's a decent character with decent motivation and a decent "twist" ending. So what if it is Luthor. They don't really share the history they do in Smallville. Luthor has hated Superman for decades, not because Luthor is a rich human, but because Superman is good and Luther is evil. Because Superman has what Luthor wants and thwarts his plans to get it. That dynamic is still there. 3) Krypton is still there. Well, for the first and second movies. But, how might it add to Superman's psychology if he has to decide between the fates of Earth and Krypton? What if one has to be destroyed and Superman had to decide? The Superman story has been going on for 50 plus years. In the comics, he has been to Krypton, he has lost his powers, Luthor has had superpowers, he has fought Kryptonians, he has fought himself, etc., etc. JJ Abrams has decided to tell this story, yet he seems to have not changed Superman. The Superman he wrote is exactly the one we all know. Personally, I can live with these changes if those few moments in the script are truly as glorious as AICN says. p.s. In the Legion of Super-Heroes, there is a character called Ultra Boy who has the same powers as Superman and gets them from a yellow sun. There seem to be many citizens of planets in the DC Universe that work like those from Krypton. Perhaps these Kryptonians in the script aren't as Kryptonian as they let on.
Horrible, just plain horrible. by Jayhawker1	Sep 26th, 2002 11:41:41 AM
I could be mad just for the simple fact that I want to see a good Superman movie about the character that I have loved since I can remember. I was only 2 when Superman hit theatre's, so I can not remember a time when Superman was not huge for me. It was my favorite movie as a child and I still love watching it a couple of times a year. I feel sorry for little kids who will not know what Superman is all about and will not have a great movie that will connect them this great American hero. I hope those of you who have small children will not take them to this movie, instead sit down with them some night turn down the lights and throw in Richard Donner's Superman. I'll probably go see this movie cause I'll be curious and a glutton for punishment, I'll got the second or third week of release and buy a ticket for The Santa Clause 3.
Please don't do this... by Bramton1	Sep 26th, 2002 11:47:11 AM
This is going to end badly. A bunch of dicks are going to go out, make a scene, and ruin things for people there to have a good time and maybe meet Abrams and Garner. Both of them are involved in a quality television show, and there are going to be people who will go to meet the creators of this show. But no, there time is going to be ruined by a bunch of dicks who want to "have their voices heard." Yeah, heard two states away. This isn't going to a civilized, "I disagree with your approach to Superman." This is going to be a bunch of schmucks screaming "Die, Abrams, Die" and screaming numerous obscenities. And then Abrams and Garner will leave and the people who came to be civilized will never see them again. The only saving grace is going to be these dicks who are escorted out of the store and/or arrested for disturbing the peace. So if you do go, be civilized. Tell Abrams, "I disagree with your interpretation of Superman. Krypton has to be destroyed. It's one of the most basic understandings of the Superman mythology."
I Signed The Thing; However... by hipcheck13	Sep 26th, 2002 11:51:33 AM
...will it make a difference? Harry, you describe the power of money in one of your best-written pleas for sanity regarding the script. Yet, the wheels ARE in motion, the skinny, middle-aged balding white guys in grey suits drinking their prissy cups of coffee while sitting at the long, shiny table made the call. They decided FOR us. These soulless fuckers unleashed the beast, and like a huge wheel it'll take an act of God to kill the momentum. If you TalkBackers really ARE sick of this shit, boycott ALL the WB bullshit - on TV, at the theater, everywhere. Don't put one more dime in their gold-coated pockets.
Does this publicity boycott mean that AICN won't have any mo by supertoyslast	Sep 26th, 2002 11:51:54 AM
Because I'd quite like to know more information about this film as and when it becomes available.
Once again...give it to Shyamalan! by BorisKloris	Sep 26th, 2002 11:57:08 AM
I said it once and I'll say it again: hand the whole thing over to M. Night Shyamalan and we'll end up having an elegant, respectful, beautifully told Superman-film that will be loved by millions for decades to come. I'm absolutely sure of it. A classic.
Fans unite!!! by ungiftedamateur	Sep 26th, 2002 11:57:55 AM
Well done for those posting support here and on other boards-WB will hopefully see them and make sure this is made. It's about time they tweaked Supes a bit.
ILLITERATE MORONS by forcemaster	Sep 26th, 2002 12:08:05 PM
Will the water brain who wrote that petition please stand up? "Lex Luthor is a businessman..." Excuse me, Lex Luthor was a brilliant, evil scientist from 1939 or so until 1986, when a man named John Byrne um, "reimagined" the Superman saga. So don't get too caught up with this "who will buy Lexcorp products" whining. It makes you look like an ill-informed mouth-breather. "Jimmy Olsen is not gay!" Come on guys, who cares? That particular point hurts the rest of the protest because it suggests homophobia. Pete Ross wasn't African-American in the comics, but does anyone really think that change hurt "Smallville" in the slightest? Why shouldn't there be a gay character in Superman's life? And in fact, why is everybody in this mythos white? If they changed that, would you send out petitions saying, "Perry White is not black!"? Perhaps someone could write a more literate, well-reasoned and less hysterical petition? And by the way, no one takes anonymous online petitions seriously. Just ask Ashanti. Also, Harry, take a deep breath. You make an incisive point about possible the financial motivations behind these changes, but then damage your credibility by suggesting Ratner needs to know who dated Lucy Lane. Also, harassing J.J. Abrams in public is a good way to get arrested and make fans' concerns look like lunacy.
what I really want to know is...... by stuftseveredhead	Sep 26th, 2002 12:08:33 PM
how many people plan on showing up at the Grove and confronting Abrams about the script? can I get a headcount please? I hate the script, but right now I'm more excited about seeing Abrams being confronted by a ton of superman geeks screaming for his head. That could be the coolest thing in the world to watch. I'm bringing popcorn.
Hey, if any WB execs are reading this, I've got the #1 probl by empyreal0	Sep 26th, 2002 12:14:24 PM
In comic books, it's almost never the powers that make the most popular characters - it's the psychology. Who are the people who have these powers, what are they like, how do they choose to live? I believe the worst damage to the Superman character comes in the form of the "canned costume" which supplies its powers to Superman. This makes for an easy out - anyone (or maybe just any Kryptonian) could be Superman, so it really doesn't matter who does the job. Give the suit to someone else. You see, the most integral part of Superman's character has always been that he is ultimately left with no choice BUT to acknowledge that he is different, and that his power forces him to deal (for good or ill) with his amazing potential. Not only that, HE ALONE determines how he uses his powers, because he is pretty much unstoppable. In the comics, if Superman wanted to do evil, who could stop him? The point is that he doesn't, even though he's every bit as "human" and flawed as any of us. But if the costume holds the powers and anyone could be Superman, you remove the power of the responsibility placed on the man of steel, so if ol Supes doesn't feel like saving the world today, he can just give the suit to some other boy scout. You know the line in Smallville about Supes having a messiah complex? If the suit makes the man, you've destroyed that complex and very interesting part of his psychology.
sopaman by Headshotx	Sep 26th, 2002 12:17:18 PM
I bet all these fanboys...despite the bitching...will pay to see this abomination. Warner Bros. will not listen to some whining fans. Behold the power of money and weep!!!
BUT THEY CAN MAKE MONEY WITHOUT THESE CHANGES!!! by Drath	Sep 26th, 2002 12:30:38 PM
Give me a break, these changes are outlandish, you don't need to do THIS much to the source material in order to maximize the toy tie-ins or tweaked character benefits. Fine, make Jimmy Olsen gay, I think it's an overt shot at being PC, but by all means do that and you'll have the benefits. But if I were them, I'd follow Paul Dini's version, make Brainiac another escapee of Krypton, only instead of sending him off into space, I'd have his course accidentally pulled along with Kal-El so that he winds up on Earth where he's discovered by young up and coming business man Lex Luthor--who then uses Brainiac like Dilinger(David Warner) used the master control in Tron. This way, Metropolis can really be the city of the future with Kryptonian science popping up all over, thus giving you things to make into toys(hell, I think Metropolis looks like Coruscant now in the comics anyway). This, while still in the spirit of the comics, would allow giant menacing robots and such to be employed by Luthor and Brainiac and which can be make into toys(even Peters's giant spider could work in this regard). Hell, you could even tie in the New Gods and other comic properties and THEN you'd get some revenue. That might even jump start a New Gods spin off, and you could market the Darkseid eps of the animated Superman in a special DVD(it plays out like a movie, it'd work). If you MUST have a giant space war, the comics are there to give you meat for the meal! And if you want to stick to Krypton and Supe's own mythology, use changes that WORK. Give Zod an ARMY of criminals from the Phantom Zone, unleashed by Brainiac, whose trying to take over the Earth like Skynet(or Master Control) and doesn't want Superman in his way. And if you must have a young villain: let Zod be the same age as Superman when he was sent into the Zone. If you need a personal connection, make him Kal-El's uncle. And there are other super-threats. The Eradicator, Bizarro, Doomsday, even the Cadmus Superboy clone, could all somehow be tied to Brianiac's Kryptonian technology and his plan to be rid of Supe's so he can consume the planet like some freaked out Borg-origin story line. You can make this cool, WB, you don't have to ruin the origin story! Krypton blows up, Jor-El and Lara die sending him away, Superman grows up WITHOUT because it grounds him, the suit is NOT what makes him fly, and his mortality is very evident because of Kryptonite. He's got limits, okay, he can't lift a single building with his pinky, he CAN be cut and bleed in a big fight with a robot or what--if nothing else he can bite his own lip when he takes a blow! The movie CAN improve on the comics, but not with this Abrams script.
BUT THEY CAN MAKE MONEY WITHOUT THESE CHANGES!!! by Drath	Sep 26th, 2002 12:30:52 PM
Give me a break, these changes are outlandish, you don't need to do THIS much to the source material in order to maximize the toy tie-ins or tweaked character benefits. Fine, make Jimmy Olsen gay, I think it's an overt shot at being PC, but by all means do that and you'll have the benefits. But if I were them, I'd follow Paul Dini's version, make Brainiac another escapee of Krypton, only instead of sending him off into space, I'd have his course accidentally pulled along with Kal-El so that he winds up on Earth where he's discovered by young up and coming business man Lex Luthor--who then uses Brainiac like Dilinger(David Warner) used the master control in Tron. This way, Metropolis can really be the city of the future with Kryptonian science popping up all over, thus giving you things to make into toys(hell, I think Metropolis looks like Coruscant now in the comics anyway). This, while still in the spirit of the comics, would allow giant menacing robots and such to be employed by Luthor and Brainiac and which can be make into toys(even Peters's giant spider could work in this regard). Hell, you could even tie in the New Gods and other comic properties and THEN you'd get some revenue. That might even jump start a New Gods spin off, and you could market the Darkseid eps of the animated Superman in a special DVD(it plays out like a movie, it'd work). If you MUST have a giant space war, the comics are there to give you meat for the meal! And if you want to stick to Krypton and Supe's own mythology, use changes that WORK. Give Zod an ARMY of criminals from the Phantom Zone, unleashed by Brainiac, whose trying to take over the Earth like Skynet(or Master Control) and doesn't want Superman in his way. And if you must have a young villain: let Zod be the same age as Superman when he was sent into the Zone. If you need a personal connection, make him Kal-El's uncle. And there are other super-threats. The Eradicator, Bizarro, Doomsday, even the Cadmus Superboy clone, could all somehow be tied to Brianiac's Kryptonian technology and his plan to be rid of Supe's so he can consume the planet like some freaked out Borg-origin story line. You can make this cool, WB, you don't have to ruin the origin story! Krypton blows up, Jor-El and Lara die sending him away, Superman grows up WITHOUT because it grounds him, the suit is NOT what makes him fly, and his mortality is very evident because of Kryptonite. He's got limits, okay, he can't lift a single building with his pinky, he CAN be cut and bleed in a big fight with a robot or what--if nothing else he can bite his own lip when he takes a blow! The movie CAN improve on the comics, but not with this Abrams script.
BUT THEY CAN MAKE MONEY WITHOUT THESE CHANGES!!! by Drath	Sep 26th, 2002 12:31:41 PM
Give me a break, these changes are outlandish, you don't need to do THIS much to the source material in order to maximize the toy tie-ins or tweaked character benefits. Fine, make Jimmy Olsen gay, I think it's an overt shot at being PC, but by all means do that and you'll have the benefits. But if I were them, I'd follow Paul Dini's version, make Brainiac another escapee of Krypton, only instead of sending him off into space, I'd have his course accidentally pulled along with Kal-El so that he winds up on Earth where he's discovered by young up and coming business man Lex Luthor--who then uses Brainiac like Dilinger(David Warner) used the master control in Tron. This way, Metropolis can really be the city of the future with Kryptonian science popping up all over, thus giving you things to make into toys(hell, I think Metropolis looks like Coruscant now in the comics anyway). This, while still in the spirit of the comics, would allow giant menacing robots and such to be employed by Luthor and Brainiac and which can be make into toys(even Peters's giant spider could work in this regard). Hell, you could even tie in the New Gods and other comic properties and THEN you'd get some revenue. That might even jump start a New Gods spin off, and you could market the Darkseid eps of the animated Superman in a special DVD(it plays out like a movie, it'd work). If you MUST have a giant space war, the comics are there to give you meat for the meal! And if you want to stick to Krypton and Supe's own mythology, use changes that WORK. Give Zod an ARMY of criminals from the Phantom Zone, unleashed by Brainiac, whose trying to take over the Earth like Skynet(or Master Control) and doesn't want Superman in his way. And if you must have a young villain: let Zod be the same age as Superman when he was sent into the Zone. If you need a personal connection, make him Kal-El's uncle. And there are other super-threats. The Eradicator, Bizarro, Doomsday, even the Cadmus Superboy clone, could all somehow be tied to Brianiac's Kryptonian technology and his plan to be rid of Supe's so he can consume the planet like some freaked out Borg-origin story line. You can make this cool, WB, you don't have to ruin the origin story! Krypton blows up, Jor-El and Lara die sending him away, Superman grows up WITHOUT because it grounds him, the suit is NOT what makes him fly, and his mortality is very evident because of Kryptonite. He's got limits, okay, he can't lift a single building with his pinky, he CAN be cut and bleed in a big fight with a robot or what--if nothing else he can bite his own lip when he takes a blow! The movie CAN improve on the comics, but not with this Abrams script.
This movie will never be good by Dasher	Sep 26th, 2002 12:43:01 PM
Because DC Comics has no creative control - they are powerless (unlike their superheroes). The reason, of course, is that they are a corporate entity owned by Warner (or "vertical integrated," as the saying goes). So when it comes to this movie, the Warner execs have no incentive to consult DC on it - they'll do whatever the hell they want. On the other hand, Marvel can farm out its characters to different studios. True, they made some bad deals in the past, but now they pay more care and attention into the finished product. I attended a lecture by Peter Cuneo, Marvel CEO, who explained that their latest movie deals included approval over the cast, director, and script (Blade, X-Men, Spidey, The Hulk, and Daredevil). And you see what kind of talent has come on board those projects, both in front of and behind the camera. The results speak for themselves.
Good Lord by 2LeggedFreak	Sep 26th, 2002 01:54:40 PM
I'm probably too far down to get read but I have to agree with those folks saying CALM DOWN !! This is a huge storm over nothing stirred up by AICN over an early draft in which there are some cool ideas. Give the thing a chance. And incidentally I like many others love the Superman film but what if AICN had been around before it was made to announce that "Lex Luthor wears a wig for comedy value and has big breasted bimbo and a dimwit as his sidekicks , oh and his motivation is real estate".
Theres really othing wrong woth a reimagining by Manaqua	Sep 26th, 2002 01:57:38 PM
.....I understand the emotional investment in jewels of our childhood, but rally there is nothing wrong with what they area doing. Why retell the same story the same way with the same characters. Why not reinvent and even radically reimagine the whole setup. Whats the point of seeing another superman movie if its jsut a CGId version of teh great Donner Supes. Now granted, I'm not a Superman die-hard or even a mild fan, but if Warners had to make a movie to please all of the die hard fans then, then they wouldn't make any money.
Who wants to bet Moriarty never works in Hollywood again. by Batutta	Sep 26th, 2002 02:19:56 PM
After all, he must be pissing off the executives at Time/Warner pretty bad and is most likely 'blacklisted'. And in a few years they'll most likely own every damn studio in the industry. I'd like to hear if Moriarty is getting any flack over at Revolution because of this review.
congratulations, aicn by JoeStokowski	Sep 26th, 2002 02:22:58 PM
you've just created "bad buzz". good work, fellas.
The sheer arrogance of this site never ceases to amaze. by CaptainFantastic	Sep 26th, 2002 02:24:01 PM
It's not going to be the same old Superman, you assholes. Get over it. When it comes out, don't see it. Hit 'em where it hurts - the pocketbooks. Don't go see it. Too bad no one on this site has the stones to not show up opening day. Every single person on here bitching will go see this movie. Why do you want to see the same Superman story that's already been told a dozen of times? Does it make you feel safe at night? Does it somehow validate all the years in the basement with boxes and bags...get over it, grow up, learn to accept change. A fucking petition? Pathetic.
Somebody's gotta say it to the WB, and I say it's gonna by XTheCrovvX	Sep 26th, 2002 02:25:37 PM
::ahem:: All you motherfuckers are gonna PAY!! YOU ARE THE ONES WHO ARE THE BALL-LICKERS! We're gonna fuck your mothers while you watch and cry like little whiny bitches. And after we find those Abrams, Peters, Horn, and Ratner fucks who're making this movie, we're gonna make 'em eat our shit, then shit out our shit, then make em eat their own shit that is made up of our shit that we made 'em eat. Then all you fucks are next! Love, The Collective Order of Comic Book/Film Geeks. United by Hate.
All we need with this shitty script is Joel Schumacher by Mandolorian	Sep 26th, 2002 02:32:20 PM
He ruined Batman, lets just get it over with and let him ruin this one right from the start. Big happy neon-colored Metropolis. Get George Clooney to grin his way through another awful performance and I predict Superman will suck ass!
the Green Goblin suit -- wasn't that cool? by KONG33	Sep 26th, 2002 02:33:37 PM
No. No, it wasn't. And Spidey's webs looked like the weakest, most fluid string ever... that's why people laugh when he's about to jump off the building. Anyway, there's a hoodie you can buy that has the SUPERMAN logo behind A BIG BAR CODE, I thought it was quite a message! I liked hearing some of your thoughts, Harry. I will only see Superman in theaters.
First Issue by SLEAZY DINOSAUR	Sep 26th, 2002 02:33:40 PM
I have a sneaking suspicion that the first issue hanging on Brett Ratners wall is the first issue of the John Byrne Superman comic. Just kidding, although I think the dream director for Superman would be Stephen Spielberg, I'm sure he was a fan, I do think that Brett Ratner is a huge improvement over McG, I mean at least he has a full name, and even with all those hot chicks, I walked out about 20 minutes into Charlies Angels and went next door and watched Meet The Parents again. The script does suck, all these changes are ridiculous, I stopped reading comics several years ago, so maybe I'm not their target audience, but I still have fond memories of wearing a superman cape my mom made for me, and playing Superman with my friends. The Richard Donner Superman was as near perfect as a Superhero movie has gotten, to me at least. Christopher Reeve seemed born to play Superman/Clark. Jackie Cooper, Marlon Brando, Gene Hackman, all perfect. I will grant that Margot Kidder wasn't the perfect choice, that probably would have been Jill Clayburg for that time, but Margot Kidder was very good. She was very pretty, and Lois was never a supermodel in the comics anyway, she's supposed to be a tough metropolitan reporter, which she conveyed pretty well. Even in the comics, I never understood what the attraction to Lois was all about, I think I would have gone for Lana Lang, but the heart wants what it wants.
A plea to Harry and Mori by Brucewayne777	Sep 26th, 2002 02:39:29 PM
You guys know you have the power to really affect this right. You have a draft of the script. Post it on-line, word for word, and this thing will go the way of Aliens vs Preditors, because the script will be everywhere. Not only that, but find a mole at Warner Bros to update the draft, whenever needed. Flex your muscles you guys, this is when the fans need a voice most.
The core of Superman's popularity is that America gets its v by half vader	Sep 26th, 2002 02:45:35 PM
Be honest with yourselves. It's sorta ironic that the character of Superman himself is a 're-imagining'. No. Actually the ironic thing is that this Christ-myth was invented by a couple of jewish guys. Pretty cool really.
yeah because superman could.. by casmcthorn	Sep 26th, 2002 02:49:42 PM
Disappear and reappear like he does in your beloved donner films.And lois lane could breath in space!i agree that this script is insanely bad!!! beyond all badness.But all comic book movies take liberties.like harry said its all about the benjamins or was that ice cube?
Whatever you do to Superman, just please don't have him surf by Eomer Fudd	Sep 26th, 2002 03:01:03 PM
Now that would be really stupid.
What the....3 posts? And no, we are not overreacting! by Drath	Sep 26th, 2002 03:05:59 PM
I only hit return once! My browser sucks.-----And to all these people saying we're overreacting, did you read the changes? Don't you get how radical this is? This is a different character, dammit! This is a different backstory! This isn't the same as organic web-shooters or no Gwen Stacy or even Joker killing Bruce Wayne's parents. Those where simple changes, they either enhanced the character, making him truer to the original idea(come on, how can Parker be poor if he's invented an adhesive like the web shooters), or they made sense for the sake of drama(Stacy dies at the end is too dark for a first outing; more gravitas for the Joker being the murderer). But in this, THEY DON'T BLOW UP KRYPTON! There are few moments in comics that can be called iconic, and this was most certainly one of them. It's needlessly convoluted, especially since we don't care about Krypton. Their belief that they can market this altered version better is a mistake too, as there are infinitly better ways of making toys and putting their own creative stamp on the character(s) than this. All you need are giant robots, futuristic war machines, and big ILM style monsters! The Superman comics provide those things, it only takes a little smarts to weave them into your narrative. My god, I'd accept the living red and blue costume in the tylenol over this reimagined Krypton story line. If you don't see how messed up this particular reimagining is, then you get even less about Superman than the guys who produced Lois and Clark--and you damn sure shouldn't be making a Superman movie!
Now, with all abject seriousness.(a.k.a. Methods of protest) by XTheCrovvX	Sep 26th, 2002 03:08:34 PM
Some points to address: 1, Harry, first off, beautiful rant....although, i must agree with what one of our fellow TBers said above....one of the major ways you can help is by setting up an interview/meeting with Abrams and/or Ratner. Show them what makes Superman Superman....address the problems, be calm, but forceful. Print out the TBs here, and under Mori's script review. Show them that although a Superman movie will make money no matter what, a GREAT Superman movie will make MORE money. Show them the things that are plainly obvious to us, but seem to elude them. You have the power to do this. Use it wisely here. 2, about this Barnes and Noble thing....next time, include the city and state....but aside from that, knowing now that its in L.A....well...first off, if by any chance a member of L.A.P.D. traverses these boards, please, go light on the tear gas? That stuff stings like a bitch....thanks, 'preciate it. next, while I do agree that geeks need to head out there in full force, please, i beg of you, be somewhat civil....LOUDER THAN HELL, but civil. No public death threats. Just let him get the general idea...that numbers of geeks, in the thousands, are pissed. Get a police line going outside, signs, copious amounts of Rage Against the Machine and System of a Down playing over loudspeakers, guys with the Death of Superman logo painted on their shirts....let the bastard see and hear our rage, not feel it......3, about other stuff we can do?? Well, although i signed the thing, i have severe doubts about the petition doing anything else but winding up lining some Wanker exec's bird cage at home....one letter with a load of names attached can be gotten rid of, easy....but think of one of Warner's own creations....Harry Potter....think HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of letters from all corners of the planet, calmly, but deadly fucking seriously concerned about the fate of this movie...that shows we wont be ignored so easy better than a single letter.....as for Harry's cold turkey separation from all things Superman....again, i agree with some of the people above....all thatll do is make them think that updating the character's an even better idea...remember, this is why comic book fans got that shitty upgraded "bolt of lightning" Superman a couple years back....instead, take the back roads....Smallville, despite all its flaws, is absolutely nailing several elements of the Superman legend....but should the abomination go any further, Smallville will get the axe....do what you can to keep this show alive, and Abrams will be forced to preserve continuity.....get hold of Cartoon Network....Warner Brothers owns them....ask for the return of the Dini Superman cartoons...show them that this is the Man of Steel we want.......and lastly, the one simply obvious thing to do...TELL EVERYONE....send them Moriarty's link, anyone who has even a minute knowledge of Superman, and trust me, most people do...everybody';s at the very least seen the first film....let them know, tell them to spread the world.....tell them to do the same.....this site has shown that bad word can travel quick from here....we need to sour the public one personat a time to this crap.....and gods willing, well....to paraphrase my namesake...."I dont want you to do 'light my fire' time for the [industry] again....i want you to light a fire so goddamned big, the gods will notice us again, is what I'm saying." Otherwise, the entire legacy of Superman will become that little worm on a big fuckin' hook. And should this train wreck in progress see the light of day, well...hopefully, i will see the disaster of Aenima proportions i mentioned in the other TB.....and we'll all believe that heads can roll. Revolution is, in this case literally, my name.
better idea by Merpio	Sep 26th, 2002 03:11:02 PM
When will there be a green lantern movie how long do we have to wait! ps. signed the petition
The item 5 in the petition is wrong! by Gelogurte	Sep 26th, 2002 03:13:16 PM
The petition says that Supes' powers come from the suit but that's not acurate. Read that part of Moriarty's review below: "They take the baby in. His powers begin to manifest almost immediately. He tosses a couch. He flies. Even what he leaves in his diapers seems super-powered based on Jonathan
yeah... by hank quinlan	Sep 26th, 2002 03:18:42 PM
I do agree. Nobody should go there in their Superman shirts screaming shit. It's gonna turn into Triumph at the Star Wars line thing then. Someone articulate and informed needs to ask Abrams a question. The general public has no idea whats going on. And Harry you do have some clout. Get on ET or something. Listen don't think those Warners guys aren't reading every TB here. As for all the people who aren't as worried about it...well i wasn't worried about organic web shooters because A)Cameraon had a good argument for them in his scriptment and B)Sam fucking Raimi was making it and I knew he would do a great job. This thing is gonna suck for two reasons: Jon Peters and Brett Ratner. Those guys are souless Hollywood players. Ratner likes high profile projects as a way to feed his giant ego. Peters has fucked up one DC hero after another. Abrams isn't a horrible writer but he just isn't the guy for the job. I know this is a losing battle. And I know that the movie when released will make money but only in a Batman and Robin/Godzilla/Planet of the Apes way where they made back the money but lost the franchise. That's where they are so stupid. I love what Harry said that Superman is in our comic collections and hearts. My only wish is I could be there for the test screening when the audience cracks up at all the stupid shit in the movie and they all realize it's too late. AICN is the Cassandra of the movie world.
Sorry folks... by manwiththedogs	Sep 26th, 2002 03:26:39 PM
..but Jimmy Olsen IS gay. Always was, always will be.
Actually, Ungiftedamatuer... by Qwerty Uiop	Sep 26th, 2002 03:32:15 PM
Lex and Superman were friends as children, until an accident caused by Superman caused all of Lex's hair to fall out and Lex swore revenge. Thats from the comics waaaaaaaay back. Silly? Extremely, but what can you do? It might not be canon anymore, but at least Smallville's choices make a little bit more sense now, right? And Ultraboy had three powers, flight, strength and invulnerability, but can only use one at a time. And they don't come from the sun, there, I believe you are talking about Mon-El, who is a bit of a Superman rip off. As for Kryptonite hurting Superman, I believe its becauses its irradiated by the Yellow sun, just like Superman, does that make sense? No? Well, no shit, sir Issac fucking Newton. Don't lessen yourself by claiming a rock from his planet hurting him doesn't make sense because the story is about an alien who gains super powers from our sun! As soon as you claim something like that doesn't make sense, you just make yourself look like an ass. Its fiction. ***** Die Fledermaus? Do you get paid to lick WB's ass, or is it just a hobby? I don't care about Superman one way or another, but christ man, I can understand why some people are SO against this movie, but why are you so for it?
Murdoch! by Sheamus	Sep 26th, 2002 03:34:44 PM
Man that was some hilarious stuff in there, and some things so obvious that I'm amazed it hasn't been picked up on before. I was reading your post out to my wife and crying with laughter over the image of Clark Kent walking into a room and going through the floorboards, destroying Lois's car etc, not to mention how he keeps his shiny red boots underneath his socks and shoes. :) And agree about the sun/Kryptonite stuff. I mean, I never understood why Kryptonite would do anything. If the point is that he's being like 'returned' to his home planet, then you'd need a lot of it, not a rock the size of a softball.
Perspective? Why, I'm slopping over with perspective! by Village Idiot	Sep 26th, 2002 03:37:55 PM
Hey John Murdoch, it seems that you
holy shit, no wonder the script is so bad!!!!!!!!! by Robs	Sep 26th, 2002 03:39:38 PM
get this, a contact for Superman Cinima just sent them an email,WB is furious and scrammbling right now over what happened on here with the script, apparently, none of the execs have seen Su[erman the Movie or know anything about his origin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Come on WB, FOR ONCE do the right thing and scrap this script. by banshee	Sep 26th, 2002 03:43:13 PM
You do realize that in part 2, when Superman returns to Krypton to lead the rebellion that he won't have any of his powers, right? They'll give him a big laser rifle and stick him in some kind of exo-suit,(got to sell those toys after all,) that's not Superman. There is also no reason for Superman to know kung-fu. Why? Because he doesn't need to. And it's going to look gay as hell if they actually have two men doing kung-fu 1000 feet off the ground.___Abrams went too far with his revisions. I agree with others that if you change the names that it would probably be a pretty cool sci-fi flick. But it's not Superman.
We all knew this movie was gonna suck... by Filthy Fox	Sep 26th, 2002 03:47:16 PM
This project has been plagued by one problem after another. Although it could have been worse, McG almost directed this movie.
JJ Abrams is fucking clown shoes, and give us the orginal back i by satansteve	Sep 26th, 2002 03:58:11 PM
Yes, i have signed the petiton, yes i am very fucking annoyed. I hope someone does a) give JJ Abrams a full and up-to-date copy of the petition (all 3049 as of right now) and tell him how pissed off we are or b)give him a big dentist's bill. They should make a completely new movie, no origin or anything, cuz we are getting the longest fuckin origin story with SMALLVILLE, but a new story that sticks to the original series (same theme tune too, cuz the only one kids know is that awful Lois and Clark horseshit and the original is the best theme music to ever come out of a comic book movie!) and re-release Superman 1+2 a couple of months before. THAT way everybody will get a chance to see the only Superman origin we ever need to see. Plus it would give all us fans who weren't alive back in the 70's a chance to see the greatest comic book movie of all time on the big screen. THE BIG FUCKING SCREEN! come on, how many people have grown up watching these two movies wishing they could see them on the big screen, with new audience members like little kids who have only seen the cartoon and Lois and Clark, that would be the coolest thing on the planet! anybody
ok...i`m not that nuts with superman but... by drjones	Sep 26th, 2002 04:01:56 PM
even to my eyes this script seems to be weird and stupid. and FLEDERMAUS!!! this "let`s talk about" mentality you don`t like is responsible for that YOU could moan about the way we handle the script. i can just support harry in what he said in his answer to what you said.... btw: nice to see a german guy surfing aound here..:D
WB, Remake Turkish Superman!! by Declan_Swartz	Sep 26th, 2002 04:13:56 PM
www.viceland.com/issues/v8n1/h tdocs/turkeywood.php www.turkishdailynews.com/past_ probe/07_23_00/Leisure2.htm#l2 4 http://komedya.virtualave.net/ sinema/
The LATEST from Superman Cinema by Village Idiot	Sep 26th, 2002 04:20:32 PM
PLEASE visit Superman Cinema to see the original for this scoop, and to show your gratitude: "WB ARE IN BIG TROUBLE! Got this from my source today, 101% trustworthy: WB are absolutely furious at Aint It Cool News' review of the script and is complete panic mode. Heads are rolling and the entire studio is in turmoil. It seems they are scared to death they may have another BATMAN & ROBIN situation on their hands (they do) where negative buzz kills the film before it is even released. This time before it is even shot! The entire project is now in jeopardy and that they may have to throw out the entire script and start over. Someone who HATED the script and fought against it is the one who leaked it. But basically, there are a few people in the company who understand how bad the script is and that it will be a disaster the likes of which the company has never seen. We're talking a "CUTTHROAT ISLAND" sized bomb. The Aint It Cool News review is 100% correct. By the way, the studio heads, many of them have never seen the Donner film and do not know ANYTHING about the origins of SUPERMAN, which explains why they loved the Luthor is an alien concept."
Kill the WaBbit! Kill the WaBbit! Kill the WaBbit! by The Hawk	Sep 26th, 2002 04:25:01 PM
Harry, I now doubt that there's any REAL PASSION to this whole Superman movie dealio besides The Filthy Lucre. I still feel that JJ Abrams and Bret Ratner want to make a QUALITY movie that is their own take on Superman. Reinterpreting mythic figures like The Man of Steel is just part of creativity. But I pray that Messrs. Abrams and Ratner are victims of The WaBbit's attempt to milk the cash cow rather than make something that can TRANSCEND mere marketing. I think that Abrams needs to take a stand on what elements in his story work AND still fit the Superman mythic framework, and what is just licensing fodder for The WaBbit. I also think that if you guys at Ain't-It-Cool should the e-mail addresses of the people involved (Abrams, Ratner, and the Varmints who are running Wanker Bros. with their heads up their hineys) so we can tell THEM what we feel. The WaBbit's sister studio, New Line Cinema, ACTUALLY LISTENED TO TOLKIEN FANS AND LOOK WHAT THAT HAS DONE FOR THEIR "Lord Of The Rings" MOVIE TRILOGY! If they don't do somthing like this, then this once great movie factory is history, Major. I'm beginning to have doubts over the future of the Matrix and Harry Potter franchises, not to mention my beloved Looney Tunes and the next movie their doing with them. I'm HOPING IT WILL BE BETTER THAN Space Jam, but reading your piece, Harry, is making me lose hope. If boycotts, protests, petitions, and so on are necessary to get things back on track, creatively, then so be it. Let's other get Warner Bros. to either do the right thing, or to paraphrase Elmer Fudd, Kill the WaBbit and put it out of its and our misery. P. S. I stand by my opinion that Jon Peters should go back to cutting hair. What's HIS e-mail?
Kill the WaBbit! Kill the WaBbit! Kill the WaBbit! by The Hawk	Sep 26th, 2002 04:26:09 PM
Harry, I now doubt that there's any REAL PASSION to this whole Superman movie dealio besides The Filthy Lucre. I still feel that JJ Abrams and Bret Ratner want to make a QUALITY movie that is their own take on Superman. Reinterpreting mythic figures like The Man of Steel is just part of creativity. But I pray that Messrs. Abrams and Ratner are victims of The WaBbit's attempt to milk the cash cow rather than make something that can TRANSCEND mere marketing. I think that Abrams needs to take a stand on what elements in his story work AND still fit the Superman mythic framework, and what is just licensing fodder for The WaBbit. I also think that if you guys at Ain't-It-Cool should the e-mail addresses of the people involved (Abrams, Ratner, and the Varmints who are running Wanker Bros. with their heads up their hineys) so we can tell THEM what we feel. The WaBbit's sister studio, New Line Cinema, ACTUALLY LISTENED TO TOLKIEN FANS AND LOOK WHAT THAT HAS DONE FOR THEIR "Lord Of The Rings" MOVIE TRILOGY! If they don't do somthing like this, then this once great movie factory is history, Major. I'm beginning to have doubts over the future of the Matrix and Harry Potter franchises, not to mention my beloved Looney Tunes and the next movie their doing with them. I'm HOPING IT WILL BE BETTER THAN Space Jam, but reading your piece, Harry, is making me lose hope. If boycotts, protests, petitions, and so on are necessary to get things back on track, creatively, then so be it. Let's other get Warner Bros. to either do the right thing, or to paraphrase Elmer Fudd, Kill the WaBbit and put it out of its and our misery. P. S. I stand by my opinion that Jon Peters should go back to cutting hair. What's HIS e-mail?
Incomplete address by foobarfed	Sep 26th, 2002 04:30:08 PM
Do you think that the city and state might help some of us know where the address is? Or are we supposed to read minds?
OK Superman is gonna suck... by Nattisfaction	Sep 26th, 2002 04:35:55 PM
We all read the script review and understand this, but has anyone thought about the other DC characters that Warner has access to? I mean if they are so quick to change... oops, I mean re-imagine, one of the most popular pop culture icons we have, what are they gonna do to the lesser known heros? I swear to god a Green Lantern movie will never happen cause WB's test marketing will show people don't like the color green as much as purple or something and we are going to get some crap like the Raimbow Lantern.
THANK YOU AICN!!!! by jonnyvonpoo	Sep 26th, 2002 04:53:27 PM
The bad buzz on this pile of crap script is huge. I love it... the fans have a voice. For the three of you who want to see this movie made, go see it. What's stopping you? Except us, maybe...
Now is DEFINITELY the time to kick up a ruckus. by Johnny Ahab	Sep 26th, 2002 04:58:36 PM
To all the guys out there saying "Geez, it's just a first draft! Calm down!" -- if we DON'T kick up a fuss now, the script will be in pre-production before you know it, with millions spent on sets, costumes, locations, actor pay-or-play contracts with steep penalty clauses -- and with all that money spent and a release date looming on the horizon, there will be no way to stop the runaway train. NOW is the best time to let these idiots know that this script is ca-ca. Because there's time to gut the crap and make sweeping changes to GET IT RIGHT. If we all calm down and trust the geniuses at Weiner Bros. without a peep, we'll have hulk-dogs and no gamma bomb (I'm still nervous about the Hulk and what sound like bone-headed changes in origin & mythos.) So petition and boycott away -- although boycotting "Alias" really doesn't make much difference unless you have a Neilsen box in your home -- that's where they get the numbers from, folks. But if you KNOW someone with a Neilsen box (heh heh heh). However, you CAN boycott "RED DRAGON". Hollywood runs on two things: fear and money. If Brett Ratner's latest film loses money, you can bet the WB is gonna get sweaty palms over handing him their most beloved character and biggest potential franchise. Sure, it's a Universal film, so what, you say? Well, if that studio loses money from this boycott, you can bet Universal execs will be up in arms screaming at Peters, Horn & all the WB suits. Hollywood's a small town -- and another studio turning up the heat and blasting a competitor for lost revenue will not be pretty. And yeah, I don't want to hurt all the comic book artists/writers who barely make enough to get by as well as the comic shops -- but war is war. Take the money you spend on DC comics weekly/monthly, and spend it on an indie publisher you've never tried before. Boost their sales and provide new work for those who lose work from a boycott of DC stuff. Steep loss of revenue and dropping stock price and fear of losing jobs and bad press are that ONLY things that will turn this around. Let's do it, folks. Why not? They threw down the gauntlet with this crappy script -- let's show them who's boss. The AUDIENCE, not the suits. Oh, and once last thing -- fuck you, Warner Bros.
jerslater.com are you Jon Peters by Pksoze22	Sep 26th, 2002 05:21:19 PM
You seem to have as must understanding of Superman as he does. Superman's not deep. Read For The Man Who Has Everything by Alan Moore or Whatever Happened to the Man of Tommorow then tell me he's not deep.
Maybe WB should 'reimagine' their management... by Elliott Ness	Sep 26th, 2002 05:23:09 PM
... because these people seem in such a state of sheer panic, they'll do anything to get a potential franchise going. First, they fuck up Batman, and did not even seem to care all that much about it. Then for years, they mess around with a Superman Lives movie, starring one of the most unsuitable actors for the role, Nic Cage. That one went into turnaround, so Superman vs Batman is next, which seemed to show some promise, until they hired little Josh Hartnett as Supes, after which the director immediately jumped ship. In the meantime, they greenlight a Batman musical, and we all have a good laugh about it. Then the reimagined Superman turns up, which almost every single person walking the earth despises, but which WB praises in a press release. In short: these people have lost contact with us out here in the real world. Nobody tells them no, and it shows. It's not the end of the world, but it sure will be the end of Superman. And, if justice is served, Warner Bros.
am i the only one by deerslayer	Sep 26th, 2002 05:25:04 PM
I thought the script had one thing going for it, and that is imagination. I don't care where the motivation came from (money, creativity, whatever) the man put some serious creative thought into the character and where he came from, and that is what I go to the movies for. The last thing I want to see is another telling of the same story I allready know. I can watch the original movie for that. No one jumped on stan lee for recreating some DC characters, including superman. I, for one, hope this movie gets made.
I'm stunned... It was for real. That script was atually the by nazismasher	Sep 26th, 2002 05:46:17 PM
I thought it was so amateurish it had to be some prank. Superman fans, you have my sympathy.
Let's not completely lose perspective here... by Sheamus	Sep 26th, 2002 05:50:35 PM
... I've heard talk of 1200 signatures and the "legion of AICN fanboys" stomping all over this project. I have no idea how many people regularly read AICN, but let's say it's 100,000. How many read the Talkbacks? Let's say 50,000. How many read the Superman Talkbacks? Let's say 2,000. How many actually care? Let's say 500. How many post and/or keep coming back to read more? Let's say 50. Suddenly, it's not such a force. With all due respect to Harry - this is a great site, after all, and I think we're all agreed there - AICN does overstate it's importance from time to time, particularly in the wake of the dozens of other decent movie scoop sites. It's really irrelevant if everyone in this and other SUPERMAN-related Talkbacks are opposed to the project. Even if 100,000 AICN users refused to go to the movie, we're talking about an audience of MILLIONS (worldwide). Sure, I hope that the negative buzz (which despite this thread, is seemingly universal) will force them to change the movie, but let's not get too carried away with our own self-importance (or lack thereof.) I mean being completely objective
jerslater.com and others. by Juggernaut125	Sep 26th, 2002 05:52:56 PM
"Superman is not deep" or "Superman is boring". "Why should they do another Superman movie? He's not interesting!" 1st. Read Superman For All Seasons. Yes, as you say one book doesn't make a character "deep", however this story really portrays the core of the Superman mythos to it's greatest extent. He has all of these wonderful powers (which NO ONE ELSE has. NOT EVEN FRICKIN' LEX LUTHOR.) and yet he is still unable to stem the tide between life and death. He can't save everyone. He CAN'T. But he still tries. Noble. Heroic above and beyond the extraordinary powers he possesses. As for him being "boring". That's merely a matter of opinion and I'd say by the response these TBs have generated so far, he's anything but boring. Now to my opinion on the kryptonite thing. Keep in mind his IS a fictional character most often portrayed on an earth where many people fly or have super strength and wear funny tights. Growing up on said earth where the radiation from the yellow sun has injected him with such amazing powers all the years he's known, when he comes in contact with Kryptonite which radiates energy from his mother planet, it is so potent as to sap all of the strength and energy from him quickly and painfully. To the point where too much would kill him. Now this may or may not appear anywhere in any comic or cartoon or feature, but it is my way of getting passed the problem. Whadda ya think? Makes any sense?
Howlin' Mad Murdoch! (A-Team reference) by Village Idiot	Sep 26th, 2002 05:58:07 PM
So back when I was still up in college, my roommate was this astrophysics genius (I'm not kidding: the guy worked with NASA), and one day, I explained the Superman sun-related power theory. And he pretty much gave the same explanation you did for why it wouldn't work (that is, the energy properties of different colored suns aren't different enough to produce the reaction described). But not only do I think you and my ex-roommate belong to a very small percentage of the population who would even know this, more importantly, I think that most people would be willing to suspend their disbelief for the sake of this explanation anyway. The arrangement works within the context of the story, just like the spider bite would alter a person's DNA._____Of course, I don't think Abrams script necessarily gets into this or any of the issues you mentioned. His changes are of relationship and structure.
Howlin Mad, cont by Village Idiot	Sep 26th, 2002 06:01:26 PM
...and I think they create something worse than the original or the "ideal type" (to borrow a term from the behavioral sciences). There is a good Superman movie to be made, one that I think would go a long way towards satisfying everybody, but this one ain't it. (Sorry to have broken this into two posts. I pasted an earlier copy accidentally.)
Sense? by Sheamus	Sep 26th, 2002 06:02:49 PM
Not really, no. For the points I made above - basically, one small rock isn't going to generate enough energy to part his hair the other way, let alone do him any real damage. And as for why they'd do another SUPERMAN movie - money. Nothing to do with how exciting he is. Many icons in life - either real or imagined - are hardly exciting: Einstein, Captain America, Abraham Lincoln, Reed Richards, George Washington, Winston Churchill, etc etc. Even Jesus himself - let's face it, you wouldn't want to find yourself sharing a long bus journey home with him. ;) SUPERMAN is an icon and an icon generates guaranteed $$$ - even if the film is as lousy as it sounds, it's gonna gross $100 million plus. Superman IS boring. Most DC characters are shallow and one-dimensional, not to mention all-powerful and arrogant. DC is the Pepsi to Marvel's Coke, and always has been.
DO NOT STOP BUYING SUPERMAN COMIC BOOKS. by SleazyG.	Sep 26th, 2002 06:07:10 PM
If you stop buying the comic books published by DC, which are in NO WAY RELATED to this movie project, all you do is destroy the character Harry was just idolizing. It won't protect Supes, it will destroy him. Neither the SUPERMAN comics, DC Comics, or comic books in general can afford you deciding to boycott a book you enjoy because Jon Peters is a dickhead. Oh, and another thing: nothing will make us all look like assholes quite like a flood of Talkbackers shouting "your script sucks but Sydney Bristow is hot!" as JJ Abrams tries to have a book signing. There are appropriate ways to make your opinions known. Boycotting the books and ruining this guy's public appearance are not among them.
Well, if the reports at www.deceptions.net/superman are true and by RawShark	Sep 26th, 2002 06:15:27 PM
Then I want to be first to bemoan the loss of another great potential film. Cowardly studio. Hey Ratner, if you're reading this give me a shout-out on the Superman DVD commentary. I always believed in ya, buddy. Oh and if you're going to sign the petition, try to make your comments funny. I keep signing with my own little aphorisms, but everyone else just keeps talking jive about the script.
Wow by Wydok	Sep 26th, 2002 06:33:35 PM
For those who said that AICN shouldn't kick up a fuss, do you see what is going on at Superman Cinema (http://www.deceptions.net/ superman/)? Mori actually made waves big enough to hit WB execs! I'm impressed. Now it seems obvious that this script will be trashed, but I would like to point out that there are a few changes I could live with: 1. Jimmy being gay. Ok, this is first because I find it to be the least offensive change. Who really cares if Jimmy is gay? It's not that important. 2. Martha Kent being raped. This change could be a good thing. It could be a pivotal moment for Clark. Let's say the attack happens when he is 14 or so. He walks in on the rape and beats the hell out of the rapist and kills him accidently. This could be a good lesson for Clark about keeping control of his powers. This could lead to the "Big Blue Boyscout" not being able to kill people. 3. Krypton exploding. What if Clark BELIEVES Krypton is gone but it really isn't? Like maybe it was going to be destroyed by asteroids but the planet survives. That would be an interesting twist, especially if it isn't revealed until the next movie. 3. Keep a CIA agent from Krypton, but don't name him Luthor. Again, this could be for the second movie. Make Luthor either the current CEO character, the old "hate Superman because he caused an accident in my science lab and made me bald" Luthor, or the Gene Hackman criminal kingpin Luthor. Things that must go: suit in a can. The Prophecy ("You are the one, Neo! :-P"). Superman knowing Kung Fu (he's so powerful he doesn't NEED Kung Fu). Death of Superman (it was overplayed in the comics, don't need to do it again).
Chaos and Panic in the corridors of Wanker Brothers! Keep up the by Bari Umenema	Sep 26th, 2002 06:41:49 PM
http://www.deceptions.net/supe rman/news/index.htm Wanker Bros. ARE IN BIG TROUBLE! Got this from my source today, 101% trustworthy: Wanker Bros. are absolutely furious at Ain't It Cool News' review of the script and is in complete panic mode. Heads are rolling and the entire studio is in turmoil. It seems they are scared to death they may have another BATMAN & ROBIN situation on their hands (they do) where negative buzz kills the film before it is even released. This time before it is even shot! The entire project is now in jeopardy and that they may have to throw out the entire script and start over. Someone who HATED the script and fought against it is the one who leaked it. But basically, there are a few people in the company who understand how bad the script is and that it will be a disaster the likes of which the company has never seen. We're talking a "CUTTHROAT ISLAND" sized bomb. The Aint It Cool News review is 100% correct. By the way, the studio heads, many of them have never seen the Donner film and do not know ANYTHING about the origins of SUPERMAN, which explains why they loved the Luthor is an alien concept.
The worst thing... by sbab15	Sep 26th, 2002 06:48:21 PM
...is that this script, with some re-writes, has potential to be a (maybe) pretty good NON-SUPERMAN movie. The ending and being talked back from the dead are pretty cheesy, but workable, but NOT AS A SUPERMAN MOVIE!
Dear Die Fledermaus by sbab15	Sep 26th, 2002 06:58:29 PM
I agree in the freedom of the creative process and I am a HUGE Alias fan, and I think that this script could be a good non-Superman movie, but this is not about the quality of the script. This is about preserving the most fundamental elements of a beloved wordwide cultural icon.
http://movies.yahoo.com/news/eo/ 20020926/103308870000.html by seekshelter	Sep 26th, 2002 07:12:53 PM
http://movies.yahoo.com/news/e o/20020926/103308870000.html yahoo says its true.
OK--first off, ignore the knuckle-dragging, lobotomized trolls-- by Noriko Takaya	Sep 26th, 2002 07:16:50 PM
--who post crap about how they are making this movie for them and get a life and it's only a movie and geeks need to move out of their parent's basement and whatnot. All they want is to get a rise; and if they really mean it then they are even more pathetic--they are the drooling 'tards who like films such as the illustrious "Wild Wild West" and (the American) "Godzilla." They are the reason bad movies and TV shows get made, because they have less taste then granite and the I.Q. level of a nice bowl of fruit. They will quite literally watch anything and thus are worthy only of pity. Secondly, as to this Abrams at Barnes and Noble thing? People--if you meet the man, and I cannot stress this enough, BE ON YOUR MANNERS. I'm serious here! If you actually manage to get this man's ear, even for a minute, chances are you have a once in a lifetime shot at having a real effect on things. Be nice, polite, well-reasoned in your arguments. Trust me, this is a lot more persuasive then screeching and 'cussing and getting dragged away by security. It be a clich
It's Impossible! by Puddington	Sep 26th, 2002 07:26:58 PM
You won't be able to change a fucking thing. Just relax and wait for what will easily be the biggest unintentional comedy hit of the year. Haha
EVERYONE PLEASE BOYCOTT "RED DRAGON" by FortyWatto	Sep 26th, 2002 07:27:00 PM
Or at least pay for a differnet film before sneaking in to see it at the multiplex. Ratner's arrogance -- AND GREED -- must not go unpunished. You WILL bow down before me, Rat-Ner. First you, and then one day, YOUR HEIRS!!!
Here's an idea...don't see it when it comes out! It' by Doom II	Sep 26th, 2002 07:29:44 PM
If everyone on this site agreed to keep 2 friends fom seeing this film, it would KILL IT on the opening weekend. This site has proven that word of mouth can destroy a film. Let them make their piece of DC shite, release it and watch it sink. Many of you do not have the WILLPOWER to boycott a blockbuster. You MUST SEE IT! I gotta know if it sucks. My curiosity got the best of me! Fuck it! Just go see something else or sneak in. But many of you cannot and that is a shame because it would be a blast to see this film get made their way and then actually FLOP OUT...."Mr. Deeds style"
Why has Richard Donner not been approached to produce this movie by BorinquenSon	Sep 26th, 2002 07:47:20 PM
At least he seems to understand how to do do justice to his american Icon.
Spiderman by ungiftedamateur	Sep 26th, 2002 07:51:25 PM
A lot of you carry on as if Spiderman was faithful to the character, but it wasn't. What happended to the friendly neighbourhood Spidey who quips and taunts his enemies? He wasn't tthere. The "Spidey" we saw was really a power ranger. That was a huge character change, but you lot accepted it. This Superman script leaves the boy scout in place and is less radical than Spiderman's reimagining, so give this thing a chance.
Jetslater/JonPeters by Pksoze22	Sep 26th, 2002 07:55:28 PM
Numbnuts huh. You had to make this personal. Oh well Fuck you! Ok now that we got that rant out of the way lets stay on Superman. I just picked two examples. There's a lot of deep stories involving Superman. There's not only two stories despite your retarded contentions. There's Kingdom Come, Superman For All Seasons, Peace on Earth, Alot of Superman the Animated series. Thats a lot more than two stories those were a few in the past couple of years. Believe it or not good writers can write good stories with the character. Batman's written better but he's written better than most heroes including Spiderman and the X-men. He's had bad stories like Superman as well. Of course even he can be scrwed up as seen by Batman & Robin. You want some of the best comics ever read Sandman or Preacher or Alan Moores Swampthing characters who blow Superman out of the water in power. The character is more than some guy who punches things. Of course you'd actually have to know about the character instead of talking out your ass Mr. Peters. Oh yeah to repeat Fuck you. Guess I didn't entirely get past that rant.
This whole thing doesnt really make sense though.... by Jabbathesltt77	Sep 26th, 2002 07:55:44 PM
Obviously WB is trying to restart their superhero franchises due to the Humongous sucess of Spiderman right? So then why in god's name dont they just take a cue from that movie. Spiderman was about 85% faithful to the comics.....100 percent where it counted...and it raked in 400 million. Superman is a character a million times more recognizable than spiderman, and there just gonna throw that all away. Superman is mythology plain and simple. Its like making a movie about Hercules and making his father buddha, its just screwin with the whole myth.
ungiftedamateur by Wydok	Sep 26th, 2002 08:01:50 PM
I think spidey quiped and taunted his enemies, at least a little. He called Green Goblin "Gobby" for crying out loud. He may not have been as blatant as in the comic book, but I still saw it.
supes story is disposable by ungiftedamateur	Sep 26th, 2002 08:11:43 PM
read the comics they change his background all the time.
plenty of super stories have sucked by Ignatz	Sep 26th, 2002 08:21:26 PM
The new costume and powers, the entire ressurection story arc, turning back time by flying backwards around the planet, but nothing as bad as this. How about not having Lex in it at all? Braniac, Bizarro, Zod, I'd rather see Mini Me as the incredible Mr. Mytzleplix, than a Kryptonian Luthor. Smallville is such great property why not just wait and make METROPOLIS. Maybe that's why its not mentioned in this script, because this a direct to DVD throw away to tide us over for Metropolis.
darkseid would be good by Ignatz	Sep 26th, 2002 08:31:15 PM
so many great stories to pick and choose through and you have to pull out a turd. By the way I think Kevin Smith sucks, just thought I'd throw that out there, get Jeff Loeb, Bendis, Alan Moore, Miller but Jesus get help. I could give a rats ass about continuity but even if your dialogue is pure gold this stories power of suck is immeasurable.
I Used To Hate Superman by ILoveEwksAndJJar	Sep 26th, 2002 08:40:37 PM
Or not really hate him, but the thought of him being all powerful (Except for krypton, yes) was kind of a turn off. I prefer the very flawed and definitely not perfect (But definitely kick-ass) Batman. But after these turn of events, my opinion of him has heigtened, he's now among my top 10 favorite super heroes. Kinda like when after 9-11 patriotism soared. I've just purchased 2 of the latest Superman titles.So basicaly........the movie shouldn't be made. Yeah. Nothing new. Carry on, carry on. Still got a million more TBs to read. Or you know, stop here, as mine is the only real important one, and you know keep the petition signatures rolling, and send it to everybody you know, even if they don't like comics or movies.And as always, "seek wisdom". (That'l be my new thing I say at the end of my TBs)
Well said Harry... by FD Resurrected	Sep 26th, 2002 08:48:58 PM
I'm not a major Superman fan, but needless to say I was quite dismayed when I read Moriarty's blow-by-blow analysis of a new Superman script. Frankly one of the stupidest and most ludicrous visions ever conceived for a film. I'd agree with the boycott part, the absence of any publicity with the new Superman under Peters/Ratner/Abrams should send to Hollywood a loud and clear message once the film BOMBS at the box office (faster than the bad word of mouth will kill the blockbuster potential) that we casual moviegoers and fans won't stand for this revisionist bullshit made for the benefit of enriching Warner Brothers executives, producers and assistant secretaries willing to give blowjobs for promotion. Fuck clueless and cocky Jon Peters and the WB execs who think they could control Superman "property" with all their mighty power of selfishness, arrogance and greed intending to scam the moviegoers and customers out of a billion dollar in ticket sales and merchandizing. Jon Peters should go back to hairstylist position - if it weren't for that throaty neurotic bitch Barbara Streisand this wouldn't have happened even if Peters wasn't involved in co-producing 1989 Batman - he messed with Tim Burton by demanding that the film be more enlightening with schmaltzy romance between Bruce and Vicki thrown in to gain more box office bucks.
HEY! MORONS! by Dicio	Sep 26th, 2002 09:02:13 PM

HEY! MORONS! by Dicio	Sep 26th, 2002 09:09:24 PM
Now that I have your attention, I would like to suggest that you sit and have a conversation with a woman who has actually been RAPED before you start throwing that word around to define your adolescent dissapointment at the modifications of a FICTIONAL CHARACTER that YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO VIEW. Look at the pain in her eyes and recognize the ACTUAL TRAUMA that she has, is and will continue to undergo before you bandy it about willy-nilly. Get a vocabulary, or at least get some perspective. This isn't that serious. No where near as serious as RAPE. Real, actual RAPE. And for the love of God don't even think about replying to this saying that it's just a figure of speech. I know that's how you see it, but that doesn't make it appropriate, okay, or acceptable. That makes it even worse. I'm just trying to say that you need to calm down, and think for just a second about more important things that deserve actual attention.
Why can't Jor-El kill himself when you need him to? by Yonjuro	Sep 26th, 2002 09:16:04 PM
After all, wouldn't that be the best resolution to this problem? All we need to do is get Jor-El to commit seppuku with his hands, and persuade Abrams to change all that crazy shit back to the way it's supposed to be.
Curt Swan by ManosTHOF	Sep 26th, 2002 09:30:42 PM
Curt was the finest artist in the history of Superman. The comics he pencilled are what I remember most and loved most growing up. Rest in peace, Curt.
Petition Needs 2,500,000 Signatures To Make The WB Pay Attention by zigmondsrh	Sep 26th, 2002 09:52:14 PM
If you do the math, you will see that the petition needs 2,500,000 signatures to make a dent. That equates to 20,000,000 dollars of lost revenue for WB if all the people who signed boycott the film. (Assuming an average ticket cost of 8 dollars.) Please sign it for the love of God and Superman!!!
Dear DBSRYYD & Fellow Geeks Everywhere! by zigmondsrh	Sep 26th, 2002 10:24:36 PM
Your comment is exactly right. They do make movies just for you and people like you. However, if one has viewed the original film, he would clearly see that the origin of Superman is VERY important to the character of Superman. He is a strange man in a strange world just trying to fit in. In essence, he is a geek. Just like my fellow readers of AICN. Every once in while, Hollywood makes a film for people like me. I call that rare occurrence "Intelligent Filmmaking." This is where, Hollywood assumes its audience has a brain. Look at "Memento" for example. Here is a film that didn't cater to your audience and still made millions. I ask you, did you understand "Memento" the first time you watched it? I mean really understand and get the story? Probably not because it didn't have any CGI in it. In fact, when you look at the statistics, films aimed at "geeks" are more profitable then films aimed at you. The reason is because it doesn't take 50 or 60 million to produce a film for geeks. All we require is a great story along with outstanding characters. We don't require millions of dollars spent on CGI effects to make us forget how crappy the story is we are watching. By the way, I'm a married geek and get laid quite a bit. I make 85,000 dollars a year +15% bonus +stock options and a 20,000 expense account. (And I'm only 28 years old.) It also appears that geeks have the money because we actually studied in school instead of drinking, getting laid, and watching movies that turn off are brains. Not one penny of my money will support WB and this crappy Superman effort. I appreciate your comments.
I hope... by hank quinlan	Sep 26th, 2002 10:29:24 PM
...that guys source at WB is right. And I hope WB is rethinking this entire debacle. Get a real director and writer. That lone guy who leaked the script should be head of fucking production. Thank God someone had some foresight. That 50% drop off the second weekend is gonna make you guys feel so bad you didn't listen when you had a chance. I have been posting here for years and I don't think I have ever felt this strongly. Does anyone remember how Harry got so famous? That's right. It was the Batman and Robin scoop. And yet WB won't listen to history. Finally fans have a voice. Don't ignore it. Use it. Ask New Line. And as for the original Supes flick...it does have flaws. They never got Lex right. The green glowing thing was silly etc. But that scene in field...when he talks to his mom. Wow. It operates at about 65%. Which is pretty great. And Reeve was amazing. Here's a chance to make that magic 100%. It's not too late.
Superman by Spartacus69	Sep 26th, 2002 10:36:15 PM
First off, lets get one thing straight. I do not like Superman. I personnaly think that Batman could kick his ass. But that does not excuse what they they did to this comic-book character. Even though I do not like him, I damn well respect him. Moriarity was right. Only through respecting a character and what he stands for can you truly make a good comic-book movie. This crap nearly made me vomit when I first read it. I could honestly not believe what I was reading. I then showed it to my father and he nearly vomited also. What the hell could they have been thinking of. For years these corporation have been taking good ideas and ripping them a new one. WELL NOT ANY MORE! I WILL NOT TAKE THIS! We need to do something. Warner Brothers is trying to keep a tight lid on this. I have not heard one thing on the news about this. We have to blow this open more. Write to every newspaper you know of and tell them of this atrocious script. We can not stand by and let them do the same as they did to Batman. We must use the power of the masses agaisnt Warner Brothers. We blow this open for the world to here and I GURANTEE you that they will change the script. Blabbing about it on the iinternet is not good enough. We must make this explode before they start filming this atrocity.
Actually Jerslater, or whatever by Qwerty Uiop	Sep 26th, 2002 11:00:08 PM
Pre John Byrne Superman was capable of eve more outlandish stunts. In one comic, Cuperman was flying around Space (natch) and came upon a planet that was blocked from its Sun by its own Moon! Gasp. Anyway, Supes solved the problem by flying around the moon so fast and close to the surface that he turned it to shiny glass, that then reflected the light of the sun on to the Planet and saving the populous. AND if memory serves, ?I seem to remember a "reversing time" stunt in an issue, where someone had destroyed the planet while Superman was toolin' around space and he sved everyone by "reversing time" by flying against the Planet's rotation really fast. Of course this was all Pre John Byrnes when Superman was truly God-like, obviously the era Donner grew up with, so shut the fuck up about it already.
Sorry, I can't sign that petition... by zenda	Sep 26th, 2002 11:15:01 PM
...or any petition where the number 1 grievance listed against this script is that Jimmy Olsen is gay. So what? It just isn't important. Not exploding Krypton. Making Luthor Kryptonian. A lot of the other "changes". They are important. The sexuality of a second tier character is not important enough to be the #1 grievance on the list. That is insulting to me and my gay brothers and sisters.
I agree by Qwerty Uiop	Sep 26th, 2002 11:26:11 PM
I can't sign it, because I don't think Jimmy being gay is a big deal or all that false. And I think it was put number one because of some other agenda (religious right anyone?), than trying to stop that god awful piece of crap scrip. I dismiss the Batman/robin rumors, because those are obviously surrogate father/son relationships, but Jimmy has been chasing Superman's tail for years. He's always been gay. He's Mercutio to Superman's Romeo. You guys who talk about how its Creative and imaginative? I don't know what you're talking about, it seems to me like a million other recently successful movies poured into that retarded self standing suit in a can. Just admit it, you all that are so far this disaster in the making are actually WB employees trying to make this TB look less bleak, so the Execs won't shit their pants at the reaction. As for restraining yourself at the book signing... heh, heh, FUCK THAT! Burn that fucking Place to the GROUND! POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!!! HAHAHAHAHA! ANARCHY RULES!
Stay on 'em by Jayhawker1	Sep 26th, 2002 11:26:42 PM
If the Superman Cinema site is accurate at all this is not a time to just ignore the story we as fans/geeks/paying moviegoers. Need to continue to make noise and try to get some attention to this piece of shit. WB executives are not only dumb but they are also cowards. Keep making noise.
Wow! Talk about Buzz by Oknight	Sep 26th, 2002 11:28:33 PM
I spent the evening cruising the online movie news sites and boy! Anyone using net resources to learn about this movie (or even Warner as a studio) is going to get fed directly to Moriarity's review and, where opinion is offered, MAJOR contempt for Warner admin. and near universal agreement with the AICN stance-- this film is being labeled MAJOR TURKEY before it even has office space.
Hey assholes relax it's a fucking movie!! by Dmanpackerfan	Sep 26th, 2002 11:33:14 PM
Good God you people whine so fucking much. So they changed somethings in the character's orgin. Is it really the end of the world? I tell you what talk to someone that lost their job. Lost a loved one. Got a divorce. Whatever tragic event may have happened to them. Then tell them how this is the worst thing that ever happpened. I swear you people need to get out and get a fucking life.
Hey Dmanpackerfan by Qwerty Uiop	Sep 26th, 2002 11:39:25 PM
Why don't you fuck off. This is a movie site, not lamenting your divorce site or find a job.com. What do you think we're going to talk about here, dipshit? Why don't you choke on my big brown curdled shits and get a life of your own, instead of coming here and wasting our time, You pig fucking jizz bucket.
BorinquenSon, WB REFUSED to let Donner work on the film by KingKrypton	Sep 26th, 2002 11:54:17 PM
Donner tried multiple times to wrest the film away from Peters, but WB sided with Peters every time. M. Night Shyamalan--a devout fan of Donner's SUPERMAN--recently tried the same thing, but since Alan Horn is tight with Peters, Shaymalan was given the boot. Joel Silver, another comic book geek (and a long-time enemy of Peters) tried to take over the film, but was again rejected in favor of Peters. That said, I'm not surprised that the current WB brass has never seen any incarnation of Superman and has no idea of who or what the character is. It just shows how totally screwed up the studio really is. And to the idiots who claim that Superman's history is "disposable" and that Peters/Abrams are right to violate the established canon, YOU ARE NOT ONLY DEAD WRONG, BUT YOU ARE IGNORANT AND HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. The basics of Superman are SET IN STONE. Krypton blows up, Superman is sent to Earth as a baby, he gets raised by the Kents, he fights an intelligent and evil human named Lex Luthor. THIS STUFF HAS BEEN CONSTANT FROM THE BEGINNING. Yeah, Krypton's visuals are constantly changed. Yeah, Luthor's gone from being a public felon to being a corrupt tycoon. BUT THAT STUFF IS COSMETIC. No matter the surface dressing, the basics have ALWAYS remained intact: Krypton blows up, Superman is sent to Earth as a baby, he gets raised by the Kents, he fights an intelligent and evil human named Lex Luthor. That you're too stupid to see this invalidates your arguments completely, and as such your support for Peters and his grease monkeys is undeserving of any regard.
Is your life seriously going to be ruined if they make this movi by Dmanpackerfan	Sep 26th, 2002 11:56:28 PM
The world will go on believe it or not. You people are acting like this is the worst thing that ever happened. Life is too short to bitch about minute things such as this. Sure the story seems suspect to me, but who knows with some revisions maybe it can be a good story. I'm willing to give just about every film announced a chance. All I'm saying is relax.
Petition sigs adding faster than I can read them! by Oknight	Sep 26th, 2002 11:56:51 PM
4804 as of this writing
Jetslater for a Dipshit.... by Pksoze22	Sep 27th, 2002 12:05:38 AM
You can be a pretty funny guy.You maybe an asshole but maybe you're a likeable one and know more than I gave you credit for. Thanks for making me laugh. Anyway on the topic.There can be more than the typical idiotic Blockbuster Superman. When you have a guy like M.Night who knows about Superman's character and history wanting to do it and getting rejected that seems dumb. Unlike others I think the script when it deals with Superman has its good points. But however, Luthor's character just seems bizzare Superman's death seems dumb. You know there was actually an epic Superman script actually planed for a trilogy. I think it hits a lot of high notes and would be a blockbuster and not moronic. http://www.geocities.com/Area5 1/Hollow/2930/supermanmanofste el.html So WB had choices but chose to go with something quiet Bizarre.
"apologists", MrSmith? "argumentative"? by zenda	Sep 27th, 2002 12:06:36 AM
Nope, I'm neither of them. I'm just saying what I believe. I don't think I tried to pick an argument with anyone. Simply stated things as I saw them, plainly and calmly. And please, if you can spell "argumentative" and "apologists", certainly you can spell a 5 letter word like "zenda" correctly, can't you, MrSmith?
Non-comic geeks can make comic movies by Bryan	Sep 27th, 2002 12:12:34 AM
I agree that the twists in Abrams' script sound bad, but I do want to point something out. A filmmaker doesn't need to know the complete history of Krypto the Super Dog to know how to do a good Superman movie. It's all about being a good storyteller and being the right teller for that particular story. I am skeptical as to whether or not Ratner is the right person (though I seriously loved MONEY TALKS) but it has nothing to do with not having an encyclopedic knowledge of comics. Let me give you some examples: 1). Bryan Singer didn't know anything about the X-Men comics when he got involved with the movie. Yet he immediately took to the characters and premises and treated them very seriously and came up with a movie that pleased die hard fans (like Harry) as well as complete non-fans (like me). 2). Arguably a lesser example, but just to show Singer was not a fluke: Tim Burton was in love with the characters and ideas of Batman, but by his own admission does not read many comics - he claims that he cannot understand which order the panels go in. I don't think he would pass any Batman quizzes Harry could offer him. Yet he made the two decent live action Batman movies, and completely re-defined comic book movies. I understand that both films are flawed, but they are also brilliant in their own ways. I prefer RETURNS by far but if you consider what an original vision BATMAN presented at the time and how many times and ways it has been copied, it's easy to see it as one of the most influential movies of the '80s and '90s. 3). Kevin Smith - by all accounts a huge comic book fan, writer, and shop owner - wrote an absolutely embarassingly horrible Superman script. Even some of the die-hard Kevin Smith fans will admit this. And I think it's a safe bet that there are many writers of fan fiction who could pass Harry's quiz but who would not be able to write a story or direct a movie that any normal human being besides their mom would want to watch. I really do think that what you want is a balance of the two - like the Batman animated series team, who obviously knew their Batman trivia but also happened to be incredible storytellers. But I think the idea that no geek knowledge = bad movie and geek knowledge = good movie is a complete myth.
It's so easy to get right, that's what so annoying by wadew	Sep 27th, 2002 12:19:52 AM
i hope it is fake. .....but Peters is an ass and he's officially attached, so........ The story is so easy to get right! Why not just follow the source material that has been popular for years and has made Superman an ICON around the world?? If you do that you already have a large audience that will go and see the movie. Then when it makes the big money the non fans will follow. It's so friggin simple.
the story behind the story -- if there's any justice in the by amateurscientist	Sep 27th, 2002 12:19:53 AM
I don't like this any more than the rest of you. but, let's just think this thing out for a second. you want a real twist to this story - the story behind the story? right now, Jon Peters still has clout, and like it or not, he can push his weight around at warners cause he can still stop people in their tracks with "but I made BATMAN!" (we won't get into the fact that HE didn't DO anything, but whatever). but here's justice for you: jj abrams, who is an AMAZING writer and Bret Ratner (whom I will not comment on his filmic merits) secretly decide that they'll go along with all the stuff that Jon Peters and the warners want. Peters is "positioned" at warners. he did the smartest thing an uncreative hack producer could do, and attach himself to a guaranteed hit project. but still at this point, Ratner and Abrams are still in the side lines. so what they do is, get signed, and go along with everything that Peters asks to get the ball rolling. Abrams writes a killer script with cool twists (despite the AWFUL changes suggested by Peters) and secretly releases it to Mori and other fans who will pitch a fit. then they sit back and wait. the movie moves ahead, but now in the rewrite stages, during "development talks" between "the creatives" they decide to throw out all of the bad Jon Peters suggested changes (the liquid super costume that makes him fly? the unnecessary death of superman in the middle? Lex Luthor the krytonian super villain?) in favor of more economical and "story-smart" choices. they simply have Lex appear as the billionare industrialist that he is, and continue to use him in the sequels. they change the current "Lex" character to "John Doz" or something, and with that in place, the twist is great. he's general Zod or whatever (big super fight to follow). etcetera and so on. of course Jon Peters protests, cause, much to Harry's point, he's made these changes for his own financial gain, not to serve the story or the characters at all - not to mention the legacy. but now, Ratner and Abrams move in for the kill: they say they need Jon Peters removed from the project. now THEY'RE positioned, they've invested time and money and creativity and they feel Jon just doesn't have the vision for this film. after all, "these changes go agains the mythos that is Superman" they will say, sighting the fan reactions and petitions. finally, the warners will give Peters an ultimatum: either step back and let Ratner and Abrams do their thing, or be forcibly removed from the project and all the dollar potential it holds. Peters stands down. we get a great Superman movie that's true to the character, has updates but not changes, and where Krypton explodes and Luthor is a very human arch villain. this is the movie that I know we want to see. we want to see "Superman realized with today's effects" but we don't want to see Superman altered by today's hacks. I think Abrams is a clever man. I don't think they'll do this. I could be wrong. we all could. but here's hoping. maybe we should think again about the whole McG being "busy." distancing himself might be the smarted move of his career. (remember when everyone thought Keanu was crazy to walk away from Speed2) I don't know, either that scenaro or just change names of the title and the characters and all's forgiven.
ross, swan, yeah they're great but... by yeah i'm a jerk!	Sep 27th, 2002 12:38:09 AM
jerry ordway did my favorite superman art!!!
to those who ask why do we care: by amateurscientist	Sep 27th, 2002 01:07:53 AM
why do we care? why does any one care about anything? seriously. because we do, and that should be enough. let's talk about what we spend our hard earned money on - anyone who disagrees with that, has their pockets lined by some rich relative and can't relate. we PAY for stuff we want, like and care about. if we PAY for superman or batman or whatever, we obviously care enough to pay for it. now we're talking a measley couple of our dollars and look how much we care. but in the end, let's say the still go thru with it and don't listen to our concerns. the company will be putting up A LOT of it's money, and believe me, THEY DO care about what they spend. the only reason they want to make this fucking movie in the first place is cause they know it'll make a shit load of money, end of story. if they think it won't, not trilogy, no movie, no nothing. on to the next big thing. what we want to do is let them know that we'll go see their grand movie, two, three... ten times (listen warners) IF THEY MAKE IT RIGHT. we can't wait. changes to the webshooters or genetic coding of the spider in Spiderman were started by Jim Cameron (who cared) and were continued. Stan Lee himself said that if he'd made the webshooters come out of his hands when Spidey first came out, he was afraid that no one would like the character calling him a freak. that was then. THOSE are updates. for Superman, waiting to blow up Krypton... that's an update. can't fly with out the stupid liquid costume... that's a change. and Lex Luthor as a krytonian alien kung fu master? that's an abomination! an un holy wrong and sickeningly awful change. yes, we rant and rave and scream. yes, sometimes we don't share the overall vision of the filmmakers. and yes sometimes we can be pleasantly surprised with changes when they come from empassioned filmmakers that truly care about the material as we do, and make changes that serve the story. Bryan Singer made a point of not wanting to "retell" any previous X-men story. he didn't. the idea of the plot twist coming down to Rogue and her power was the brilliant use of sleight of hand - we see it all the time but are misdirected. still in all, he did not irresponsibly change the characters just to do something different. why can't they see this? we care. you don't. give us what we want, and by God and money, we'll be so behind your picture, it'll truly make your heads spin. hell, what they should really do is get back to that BATMAN vs. SUPERMAN script by the guy who wrote SE7EN (Andrew Kevin Walker). Man-O-Man, did I want to see that one made. the writer of SEVEN, treating a Batman & Superman movie? making it epic and with the director of the Perfect Storm no less? I don't know. call me crazy. we all are. we're the crazy guys that work all day, to make cash, to stand in line for your movies. we're crazy alright. and it's time you heard how we feel.
Truth. Justice. And the Warner Way! Plus Keanu Reeves as Superma by Regis Travolta	Sep 27th, 2002 01:24:38 AM
Money talks and Talkbackers walk. That's their opinion of all these angry messages here. Next big debate topic will be casting. Brace yourselves for Keanu Reeves as Superman. That's who they really want you know. I'd be happy with Matt Le Blanc or Chris Klein. Teenage girls love them you know.
You fools asked for this by giving Smallville credibility by Eyegore	Sep 27th, 2002 01:29:29 AM
First Lois & Clark, now the abomination that is Smallville. You showed that you didn't care about them "getting it right", and now look what we're getting. Bastards!
Well said, Jayhawker by KingKrypton	Sep 27th, 2002 01:33:58 AM
There's no point in giving up now. WB pushed too hard, we hauled off and punched them square in the face. They went down like a sack of bricks and now they're scrambling for cover. They went too far and now they've been nailed to the wall. Now is not the time to think we've done enough and we can ease off. Peters is still involved. He still has creative control over the film. And Brett Ratner, in a quote posted at the Superman: The Last Son of Krypton site, is throwing his total support behind Peters, claiming that Peters reminds him of himself. The WB brass, led by Alan Horn, is staunchly behind Peters. If we can smell blood, we can't ignore it. We have to go in and finish the job. We have to keep lobbying and petitioning WB to get their acts together or face the consequences. We've got them against the wall, folks. Let's keep them there.
"i really hate this script.." by Devils Halo	Sep 27th, 2002 01:46:42 AM
i love how reading a 'review' of a script automatically means everyone and their mother has a copy of the script. if you don't like what they're doing.. DON'T SEE THE FILM, DON'T BUY THE MERCHANDISE. boycotts, protests, harrassment.. yeah, that'll get your point across. now remind me again how much did Scooby-screwed make at the box office after the panning it got on this website?
No, really by ogonekenobi	Sep 27th, 2002 01:51:04 AM
Jerry Seinfeild is gonna be so pissed off! I check the potition at 10:00 a.m. on the 26th of september and 1,700 or so people had signed it. By 1:00 a.m on the 27th 5,000 have signed it. I signed it on the 25th at like 650 or something. Gentlemen, the screwballs have spoken!
if you see Abrams, please, nobody shoot the guy. please? by Tall_Boy	Sep 27th, 2002 02:46:14 AM
ok that "giving Abrams a piece of your mind" bit was kinda creepy. but still, yeah, script sucks.
Some of the Posters in support of the treatment of Superman is p by The Founder	Sep 27th, 2002 02:49:40 AM
I'm sorry, and I agree to an extent with some of the ones that are in support of the changes, and I'm all for puttimg some flare or somehow updating a classic character, but radical changes, especially taking influences from other popular blockbusters such as Matrix or Star Wars is not in no way being creative or innovative, AND GOD FORBID DRAWING ON STORYLINE OF THE PAST SUPERMAN 1&2(do we really need a rehashing and more kryptonians villians). It's nothing more then a execs seeing the success of other films or properties, and Brainstorming the best from each to make a movie. I do not wanna see a kung-fu Superman doing hong kung fight scenes with wire fu in mid air. That is not Superman, and I don't care what supporters say. An alien super Luthor is down right ridiculous. Suit in a can isn't bad, and I could care less about that, it looks to be a cool effect, and a way to have Supes access his costume easier, like the organic webshooters in Spiderman. Suit in a can won't take away from the mythos one bit as long as the purpose of the suit has nothing at all to do with his powers. I can list a laundry list of things, but the main thing for me is for them to stay to the classic origin(we don't really need one)and tweak things on a scale that can merit a change, but if all else Supes is the LAST son of Krypton, and Luthor is human, and Krypton is destroyed.
Dicio, you utter, pitiable moron. by KONG33	Sep 27th, 2002 03:16:27 AM
RAPE does not equal forced sex. http://www.dictionary.com/sear ch?q=rape Why don't you use this as a dictionary and shut up. My mother was raped, don't talk to me about it.
HOMOSEXUALITY, SEXUAL RAPE AND SUICIDE by KONG33	Sep 27th, 2002 03:18:18 AM
Just another day at the movie house! Seriously though, for an escapist PG-13 movie, this is pretty pretentious and heavy. Can't SUPERMAN be fun? It's not church.
and the DEATH of superman by KONG33	Sep 27th, 2002 03:25:22 AM
....hmm
Ideas? by Qwerty Uiop	Sep 27th, 2002 03:46:59 AM
I think, when you all go to see JJ at his signing, that you should put copies of this talkback in brown paper bags along with the freshest poop you can find or produce yourself, then... wait for it... as he begins his talk, hurl them at him as one screaming: "Your script is shitty!" Then run. It'll be great. If you do it, I'll send you a dollar for each bag. Just let me knowm, so I can tape it on the news. It'll be so great. Please do it. I would, but I'm out of town, so its up to you. TAKE ACTION! Superman would want you to. Please, do it for Superman.
Superman lives? by Phantom Phreak	Sep 27th, 2002 04:16:53 AM
Come on, didnt you guys at Warner inflict enough damage on D.C. characters (i.e Batman, anybody still remember him?)Lets get back to the basics. Don't overload Superman on steroids and pretend it looks good. It doesn't! First of all, the story of Superman of Siegel and Shuster is so broad that you can work a million things into it, wow the fans and still walk away without hurting the storyline(I know you fans agree with me). Worst of all,Luthor a Kryptonian? Come on! Its the futility of Lex being human yet wanting to go head to head with an alien much,much stronger than him that makes us intrigued by his villainy. A normal man who is so consumed by revenge that he would take on a superpowered being. I have a Superman story that took me a year to write that i would love the fans to read and give their comments.Mail me
The shit has hit the fan. by Psyclops	Sep 27th, 2002 04:27:17 AM
I've been reading up on this SUPERMAN project for the last few days and haven't really mentioned anything in talback until now. Holy crap! Could this be one of those monumental moments in movie history that all of us will remember many years down the road. The day the WB killed SUPERMAN!!!... or... The day the fans united and actually made a difference (it's looking that way right about now)!!! I'm actually proud of my fellow geeks, you're getting your voices heard and you just know that those suits at Warners are checking these talkbacks daily to see if the anger and protests have died down (keep checking guys). Fuck 'em! If they want to emulate the success of SPIDER-MAN they should pay closer attention to the reason it was such a hit with fans. It didn't screw up the origin story! It was a GASP faithful adaptation of a beloved comic book icon! Some things may have been tweaked for the movie but it wasn't a drastic change, it still worked because it was made by people who actually loved the comics and had respect for the characters. Now... I actually like J.J. Abrams, I love ALIAS to death and I honestly feel that it is one of the best shows on television right now, but I don't think he's the right man for the job. I'll be at that B&N book signing on October 8th and I plan to voice my opinion about this SUPERMAN controversy (unless some sniper is waiting on a rooftop to snuff out all the fanboys in attendance). Let's hope there's still time to kill this thing!!!
Two Points by Ali_Arikan	Sep 27th, 2002 04:40:57 AM
The one sentence that Joh Byrne's Man of Steel series from the late eighties introduces to the series is the most important one of them all. "It was Krypton that made me Superman. But it is the earth that makes me human" Further, in the issue following the "Revelation" to Lois where Superman takes Lois to the top of a mountain in the Himalayas and when the time stops for them thanks to one of those Time-keeper geezers, this conversation takes place. Lois tells Superman that he could have been a brilliant athlete, an immaculate artist, a great commander or in fact leader of the world. She asks him; "But why be Superman?" Superman's reply summarises his inner feelings: "Because noone else can!" This IS the Superman I want to see. A man of sacrifice, a man of duty, a man of tolerance, a man of distinction, an outcast who wants to be at home, an alien with as much a burden in his powers as a spectacular gift. What a shame that such beautiful, elegant and subtle understatement is passed over for wank with a huge merchandising potential. Shame on everyone involved!
WB does not exactly have a good track record by Spacesheik	Sep 27th, 2002 05:07:20 AM
WB, home of overstuffed, bloated, tedious, crapfests like RED PLANET, WILD WILD WEST, PLUTO NASH, BATMAN AND ROBIN, LITTLE NICKY, etc etc now wants to "reimagine or "reinvent" a classic mythological hero. I don't like hearing those terms, it reminds me too much of crappy turkeys like the "reimagining" of PLANET OF THE APES, a film which, may have managed to make 180 million dollars but left such a bad taste in moviegoers mouth's it is likely it killed off a lucrative franchise - WB could learn from that mistake. If it wants to make a durable franchise a la POTTER or LOTR it needs to be faifthful to the original. Krypton must explode. Lex Luthor is not an alien. Superman does not Kung Fu. This isn't the fucking MATRIX. Everything Moriarty stated in his review is true; the action scenes seem imaginative and exciting, but the other stuff is an abomination to fans of SUPERMAN. Bring back Richard Donner!
Ali Arikan by ungiftedamateur	Sep 27th, 2002 05:24:34 AM
Arikan, I agree with your sentiments but fail to see how that great moment is prevented by this reimagining, especially as Byrne himself completely reimagined Superman for the better. His fundamental shift was that it was a comic about Clark Kent, who took on a ROLE as Superman rather than the other way round. This will not be stopped by JJ's tratment. The emphasis is more on the MAN than super (hence limiting his powers and making them consistent). On a previous talkbacker, about the fundamental origin. Well what is fundamental is subjective. Luthor going from a mad scientist to businessman was more than cosmetic it was a complete change other than he's still the bad guy. But most fans prefer this incarnation and accepted it. So then you label that change cosmetic. The change about Krypton once accepted will be labelled "cosmetic". JJ might argue the point is that Kael is brought up as an adopted kid away from his homeworld. If the creators want to set stories on krypton you might as well not blow it up rather than make up some ridiculous storyline as in Return to Krypton in the recent comics. All that matters is that Supes has the recognisable range of powers and is on the side of "good". By the sequels no one will care what the origin was anyway as long as he's broadly recognisable.
Last? by sith this	Sep 27th, 2002 06:58:18 AM
Wire Fu? Martha Kent being raped?(giving our hero a reason to fight crime, a la Spider-man). Finding a suit in a can? (Greatest American Hero). And the suit is made of red liquid? (well, it aint spaghetti sauce, son). What the fuck is going on at WB. This goes way beyond organic web shooter's. This is like Uncle Ben surviving the gun shot. With Uncle Ben alive, Spider-man is just another wrestler/college student with a skeleton in the closet (if he aint swinging around fighting crime, he aint snapping photos for The Bugle). You can change the story to fit the times. You can even change alittle about the character, but you don't change the history or the essence of the character. When you do, you make us not care about him, because we lose the identity we have with him, and if we don't care, we don't watch. And please, someone tell me why the 5th movie in this series is rehashing the origin told in the first. This is not "re-imagining", this is "re-creating." I understand the 3rd, and 4th films were hard to swallow, but not every Star Trek film was a success, and they at least came up with new stories each time out. As long as we're going back to the begining, how about combining the civil war story of this film with the revolution of Zod in the first film, and having that be the destruction of Krypton. Maybe then we could see what Zod did to deserve the Phantom Zone, besides breaking a fucking red crystal. I know, we got a list of charges, but I want to see it. Of course you wouldn't need to put Zod in the Phantom Zone then, but I never liked that effect anyway, and I can live without it. Besides, if we're "re-doing" the entire origin, then the first four movies don't count anyway, right?
is anyone still reading all the way down here? by Mr Chuff	Sep 27th, 2002 07:27:35 AM
just found this.... "WB are absolutely furious at Aint It Cool News' review of the script and is complete panic mode. Heads are rolling and the entire studio is in turmoil. It seems they are scared to death they may have another BATMAN & ROBIN situation on their hands (they do) where negative buzz kills the film before it is even released. Someone who HATED the script and fought against it is the one who leaked it. The Aint It Cool News review is 100% correct."
The Superman talkback is set to become the longest in AICN histo by Elliott Ness	Sep 27th, 2002 07:36:10 AM
... and every WB executive even contemplating a greenlight for this script should be forced to memorize it in its entirety and daily repeat it out loud until sanity returns.
Don't boycott all things Superman, boycott all things Ratner by the G-man	Sep 27th, 2002 08:48:10 AM
Such as "Red Dragon" and, sorry to say, "Alias."
The world's gone crazy by TheGinger Twit	Sep 27th, 2002 08:53:26 AM
You'll just NEVER beat the true Superman story.
The funniest thing about Harry's spiel at the end is that I by TheGinger Twit	Sep 27th, 2002 09:00:39 AM
down with this atrocious superman re-imagining. If re-imaginings were a good thing then they would be done by the original creators!
Be sure to take some EGGS when you go to see Abrams by Zug	Sep 27th, 2002 09:16:10 AM
THAT will make the papers for sure.
WB will win by ungiftedamateur	Sep 27th, 2002 09:26:12 AM
None of you have come up with a credible argument for hating the outline other than impoverished imaginations. Thats America for you.
Ratner wants Chris Tucker as Jimmy Olsen by Regis Travolta	Sep 27th, 2002 10:10:46 AM
Peters wanted Chris Rock but Chris Tucker is much more effeminate with that screechy namby pamby voice of his. "Hey Clark! Hey Lois! Hey Mr. White! Can I go downtown and cover the terror hijack plane crash into the Empire State Building? And after that I'll go to the new underground gay bath house to take some really hot pictures with my new digital camera! You'll notice that the cameras I use always change with the times and the different eras I appear in. My cameras are a chronicle of the progress photography has made since 1938! Well gotta go now bye Chief! Bye Clark! Bye Lois!"
I actually agree with ungiftedamateur... by sasallat	Sep 27th, 2002 10:10:53 AM
...that is, if I were a WB plant. Ungiftedamatuerporn, you are obviusly John Peter's boyfriend/bitch. How much of his cock do you have to chug daily so he pays you to stay at home and write on these boards? Or is it just pure analingus for him these days? Do you have to tounge kiss him directly after removing it from his asshole, too?
You're all hilarious, but simmer down geeks... by House_of_Slurf	Sep 27th, 2002 10:15:11 AM
For those of you not high, drunk or otherwise inebriated, I would strongly suggest that you DO NOT approach Abrams with a bellyful of filmgeek rage. Not only will you most likely blow the one and only chance you have to convince Abrams (highly unlikely even under the best of circumstances), you will also end up being dragged out of Barnes and Noble's by security. But hey, you'll make the news... just not how you want to make the news. You know what? On second thought, don't even bother showing up. Any forced encounter with Abrams like that will end disasterously. I guarantee it. You'll just reinforce Hollywood stereotypes about drooling, raging fanboys.
Plan of action to FIGHT this abomination. by BorinquenSon	Sep 27th, 2002 10:16:25 AM
America as a nation has seen the power a popular uprising can have to fight, an "all powerful" enemy. And the voices these people HAVE been heard countless times. Thanks to the people whe are now bleesed with a better society. Child Labor laws, the Civil Rights movements and even the creation of this country have happened because a group of dedicated individuals said "No" to an injustice. We have a RIGHT to express our opinion. Do you remember that lone student who stood in front of that column Tanks in Tianamen Square, and stopped it. He demontrated with that single act of defiance, the power a single individual can have. So in order to fight this abomination we have to protest. And NOW is the time to do so. Here are some ideas, please feel free to contribute. To Concerned fans: 1) Tell Friends, family almost as a joke...and then mention this site. Trust me it works. 2) Spread the words in movie forums and chats. 3) Sign the petitions, send e-mails. To Comic book fans: 1) When you go to the store to pick up your weekly stack, bring up this topic....and then mention this site. 2) When you go to comic book conventions, bring up this topic in the panels. Specially the DC Comics panels Harry: 1) Start a more organized internet campaign to save Superman. We need web headers, and even a web page. Harry you have the infrastructure to do this. 2) Keep an ongoing thread right here on the front page For Webmasters: 1) Please keep the pressure. If the Farscape fans could get their plight in CNN so can we. 2) Share resources and talk to each other. It is time to put old grudges behind. And no more negative talk about losing the battle. And PLEASE be respectfull. We need to remember that the one who stands to lose Millions of dollars is WB. We have to make them see that they have another "Batman and Robin" in their hands. Any other ideas?
New Line owns the rights to the "Spawn w/ ripped up billowy cape by Andy Travis	Sep 27th, 2002 10:20:46 AM
So says Mike Mignola in a recent interview. He was asked by McFarlane to clean up the tattered cape he had drawn on a Spawn cover he did, since New Line technically has the rights to that image of the character (due to the way he's presented in the movie). I'd find this more sad than amusing if I liked Spawn.
Did ANYONE read my last post?!??! READ THIS ALL YOU GEEKY-TYPES! by Mr Chuff	Sep 27th, 2002 10:33:35 AM
just found this at superheroype.com .... "WB are absolutely furious at Aint It Cool News' review of the script and is complete panic mode. Heads are rolling and the entire studio is in turmoil. It seems they are scared to death they may have another BATMAN & ROBIN situation on their hands (they do) where negative buzz kills the film before it is even released. Someone who HATED the script and fought against it is the one who leaked it. The Aint It Cool News review is 100% correct." SO SOMEONE KNOWS WHAT WE'RE ALL SAYING PEOPLE!!!
The story has hit the mainstream entertainment press by Village Idiot	Sep 27th, 2002 10:42:12 AM
It's MSNBC's gossip column, sure, but word is getting out.
"BEAT AND RAPED" What a lovely sentiment. by Strawhenge	Sep 27th, 2002 10:42:35 AM
I'm sure Siegel and Shuster would be proud to have their creation defended by such enlightened and progressive individuals as yourself. Your post perfectly reflects the morals and values that are such an integral part of the Superman character. Profanity, threats, and intolerance. Superman has obviously been a powerful influence in your life.
Jackie Chan as Superman??!! Ratner is out of his mind. by darth_yoko	Sep 27th, 2002 10:44:01 AM

Strawhenge, haven't you noticed... by Village Idiot	Sep 27th, 2002 11:13:08 AM
There seem to be five groups responding on this talkback: 1) People who are upset about the script. 2)People who are upset and angry about the script. 3)People who kinda like the script. 4) People who are angry at fanboys for complaining about the script. And finally, 5) The jackasses who push the hyperbole to ridiculous extremes because they think it's funny. If anyone offers up a prolonged and ridiculous rant like the "beat and raped" remark, they're coming at you from category 5.
MSNBC further isolates angry nerds by House_of_Slurf	Sep 27th, 2002 11:30:50 AM
This kind of exposure is not good. Makes everyone who signed that petition look like a bunch of crazy homophobes. Way to go.
I see I have just repeated what someone else said better. My mi by House_of_Slurf	Sep 27th, 2002 11:33:33 AM

Blah Blah Blah by LucasOrvis	Sep 27th, 2002 11:36:22 AM
My topic line says it all.
The thing is, we're (or at least I'm) not arguing agains by JonQuixote	Sep 27th, 2002 11:37:42 AM
I'm arguing changes to Superman: The character and Superman: The myth. And these changes dramatically change the character's fundamentals, and horribly distort the original myth. See, you proponents (the, uh, three of you) of this script can argue that there have been changes to Superman & Luthor before (I don't really care about the change to Jimmy, other than the fact that with all the other changes it just reads as more disrespect and serves as proof that the writer's motives were less than sincere. Or intelligent), but what you're forgetting is that his power-levels, or the types of Kryptonite, or Luthor's evolution from criminal scientist to corrupt businessman don't do a damn thing to impact the actual character. Now, if they want to write a movie where Superman can only leap an eighth of a mile, I don't give a rats ass (although I think it would be a shame, given the awesome spectacle of a flying Superman on the big screen), because that's just a detail. I can even forgive a corrupt Government agent Luthor, as long as he uses his mind and resources to combat Superman on psychological, intellectual, and moreal levels (although, again, I think it would be a shame to forgo the nasty multibillionaire incarnation, which is probably the second greatest villain in all comicdom). But once you take away the elements of Superman's history - not his 'story' but his 'history', you change the character at a fundamental level, so much so that it no longer becomes Superman - because his 'character' is, really, the result of his history. Not to mention his meaning. A Superman more important to Krypton than Earth? What the hell is that? Superman is an important part of 20th Century History - a second generation Jewish-American in the 30's creating an immigrant character who devotes his life to protecting his adopted home from evil, in a sense embodying the greatest ideals of that home, even though he was not born into them. This is not a question of fanboys blindly reacting to any change, this is a question of a reaction to a script written, produced, and promoted by people who obviously have no understanding or respect for the character, his history, and his importance. I cannot believe that ANYBODY with half a brain would advocate a script based on such a beloved source written by people who obviously have no understanding of respect FOR that source. THAT is the issue here - that the people in charge of Superman just don't "Get" Superman. *** And for the gentleman who tells us that if we don't like it we can "vote with our pocketbook," what the hell do you think we're doing? Just like you'd promote a movie you loved by talking about it, this is a cry against a movie that, I can tell you right now, anybody who cares about the character will not love. So we're talkin' about it. As loudly as we can. It's called 'word of mouth' and the point of it IS to vote with pocketbooks, and to let the WB know that they may have another Batman & Robin on their hands if they stick to the script.
Yeah JM, I'm not too crazy about that either. by Village Idiot	Sep 27th, 2002 11:38:41 AM
Putting the Jimmy thing first was an unfortunate choice on behalf of the people who made the petition (argh!) because the MSNBC woman grabbed the first two items for her column. Although I like to think I'm pretty gay-friendly, I'm not in love with the idea of a gay Jimmy either. But on the list of my misgivings, that one rates lower, and I'd rather it wasn't the HEADLINE. But on the bright side, anyone curious enough to click the link to the petition will see the rest of the items, and see what the beef is really about. And believe me, I think the rest of the items are strong enough to make the point.
Yo Go Girl! by Modern_Achilles	Sep 27th, 2002 11:42:47 AM
I've been re-reading the Death of Superman and Reign of the Supermen storylines, and I cannot figure out why they aren't able to adapt a decent screenplay from these comic books. There's more than enough material here for a film trilogy and quite a lot of lucrative merchandising! Anyway, I signed the petition, and even got all of my multiple personalities to sign it. Viva La Revolution!
Yo Go Girl! by Modern_Achilles	Sep 27th, 2002 11:42:58 AM
I've been re-reading the Death of Superman and Reign of the Supermen storylines, and I cannot figure out why they aren't able to adapt a decent screenplay from these comic books. There's more than enough material here for a film trilogy and quite a lot of lucrative merchandising! Anyway, I signed the petition, and even got all of my multiple personalities to sign it. Viva La Revolution!
Much Ado about nothing ! by Sirop	Sep 27th, 2002 11:56:42 AM
Quand je regarde Superman : The Movie de Donner, il m'arrive parfois d'avoir des frissons de plaisir. Je pense notamment aux fameuses sc
That story about the WB execs being furious at the review is rea by SamWave	Sep 27th, 2002 12:01:25 PM
Maybe if they watched the great Superman movie that Donner made twenty years ago, they'd realize that the whole idea is BULLOCKS! We don't need this movie! And besides, won't the Matrix sequels be a lot like this anyhoo, with people flying around punching each other through buildings? Man oh man...
Tactics and Jimmy Olsen by Zug	Sep 27th, 2002 12:18:26 PM
I totally agree with some of the people above that we should NOT focus on the Jimmy Olsen issue. It's far less important than the other changes, and MSNBC is already focusing on that issue alone. We'll look like total asses if we let that happen. But I strongly DISAGREE with those who say people shouldn't make a scene at Barnes & Noble. Where have you been the past fifty years? The only way anybody gets attention is by making a scene. Abrams won't listen to us if we talk nice--he wrote the damn thing! I know whereof I speak: I live in Birmingham, Alabama, which is still largely known only from those scenes of police dogs and firehoses being turned on civil rights protestors. You think MLK would have ever gotten things to change if he'd played nice and worked behind the scenes? Are you nuts? Fox News, jerks that they are, can be a great asset in this case, because they LOVE running anything that makes AOLTimeWarnerCNN look bad. They'll have a field day with this if we can give them a story. So let's give Abrams and Ratner HELL.
More by ungiftedamateur	Sep 27th, 2002 12:20:04 PM
1. The Donner film is actually quite crap. Nice magical start and then it dissolves into camp crap when Chris Reeves appears. The cheat ending is appalling. Superman II isn't much better in retrospect-with the cop out endings. They are also 20 years old so fair enuff that WB want to make another version. 2. Lets put a dif spin on it all like Batman and Batman Returns. They were well-received (as was Batman Returns) although Batman was nothing like the comic version. This was no World's Greatest Detective; or much of a crusader. It was basically Robocop. If WB can do it with Batman why not Supes? Spiderman did the same thing: the friendly neighborhood quipping jokester became a mute Power Ranger. 3. Therefore this Supe script is not that radical at all, as the character himself looks more recognisable than in the Batman and Spodey films. Not blowing up Krypton is a detail. The important point is that he is raised on Earth. If the script had made him grow up in Krypton I would understand some of the objections. 4. Lets remember this is just an outline. Remember how news of a new interpretation of Superman where he would not fly, wear the traditional costume etc was greeted? Howls of protest. The result=Smallville, which has been accepted as faithful by lots of people on this site. This film could achieve a similiar effect.
Idiot: Yeah, I get it... by Strawhenge	Sep 27th, 2002 12:31:40 PM
I singled out "possibly's" post because it was relatively recent and seemed to me to be the most inflammatory yet in a series of increasingly vitriolic, violent and scary posts by people claiming to be fans of a character who is their absolute adjectival antithesis, but I could have pointed to any one of a dozen others, like the "gonna blow up their buildings" guy or the "throw a bag of shit at Abrams" piece. Ass-hats like these lend credence to Dr. Wertham's wacked-out theories as well as compel me to wear a hat and dark glasses when visiting the comic store to pick up the latest issue of The Ultimates.
did anyone go to that booksigning? by Ignatz	Sep 27th, 2002 01:02:39 PM
what happened? also I agree that jimmy olsen certainly doesn't qualify as my number 1 complaint. The petition should read Jimmy's not gay, not that there's anything wrong with that! ala Seinfeld. Also I would like to see the entire death scene nixed. Yeah it was in the comics, but it was still a lousy story line that they came up with to sell more comics, and makes superman look like some wanna-be Jesus on steroids.
Ratner's gonna fuck it up by schoolofruckus	Sep 27th, 2002 01:14:35 PM
Ratner goes around saying that he's made a "more faithful" version of Red Dragon that's "more hip" than the original, Manhunter. he probably thinks he's doing the same to Richard Donner's original Superman movie. also, check his quote on IMDB, in which he likens himself to a rapper because "they both want the Cadillac and the Rolex with Diamonds." FIRST: beware any filmmaker who aspires to make a "hip" movie or even says the word "hip" sincerely. SECOND: beware any director who can't offer up anything more insightful than the quote I just took from him. Ratner's a fuckin' hack whose Red Dragon is going to be an embarassment, whose Superman could be a lot worse, and whose entire career should have never been allowed to progress to the point that he's being trusted to contribute to popular franchises like Superman and Hannibal Lecter. the many fans of both are in for a real slap in the face
Ungiftedamatuer by Village Idiot	Sep 27th, 2002 01:25:59 PM
1. The Donner film is actually quite good, even great. It has a magical start, yes, which carries through most of the film. The helicopter scene alone is worth the price of admission. The dichotomy Christopher Reeve brought to the part was amazing and fun to watch. One scene after another, be it the interview on the terrace, Clark escaping from the Daily Planet during Lex
smallvill, spiderman, gays, and flaming bags of poo.... by Qwerty Uiop	Sep 27th, 2002 02:03:33 PM
First Smallvill is the way it is, NOT because of the last Superman script, moron. WB needed a replacement for Buffy and followed the same formula using the Superman mythos. Believe it or not, there was a time when Clark did not wear the costume and went to high school. And how many jokes would it have taken for you to be happy with Spiderman? He told some, would a constant stream of banter make you happy? He only had the suit on for a few weeks, maybe he hadn't ironed out his schtick yet. Thats a pretty lame problem with the movie you have there. The reason the petition makes you all look like a bunch of homophobes was because it was written by a homophobe. You signed knowing full well that this wasn't the main problem (or a problem at all, since Jimmy IS gay). What you should have done is created a new one omitting the "Jimmy is not Gay" line. Finally, Please throw the poop, it'll be hilarious. HILARIOUS! Please, please, please. I want to see it on the news. Fuck your geek reputation or public perception, nothing is going to change that. To the public at large, everyone on here still lives with their parents in the basement and has never kissed a girl. What do you care what they think? ITs either true about you or it isn't. Please, throw the poo. It'll make me one happy "ass hat". Please, do it for Superman. Do it for AMERICA!
Bush leaked the script to Moriarty... by Vern	Sep 27th, 2002 02:24:26 PM
...to distract people from the war. And it worked - now there is talk of a popular uprising AGAINST A FUCKIN SUPERMAN MOVIE in a country where a handful of oil industry maniacs are planning a war against the entire world that almost nobody agrees with or can halfway reasonably justify. PLEASE, people. Stop being distracted by Superman and get back to being distracted by the war which is distracting from the economy and pre 9-11 screwups.
Orion's angel by Qwerty Uiop	Sep 27th, 2002 02:27:39 PM
Aren't you the guy who didn't know who Hudson was on the Two Towers TB? And you talk about being out of touch...
In semi-defense of Jon Peters by Bryan	Sep 27th, 2002 02:37:11 PM
This is in response to the post that said Peters has clout because of BATMAN, but that he did nothing for the movie. That's not really true. I recommend the book _Hit and Run_ about his and Peter Gubers' careers as studio heads. It's a fascinating story because Peters in the book lives up to his legend as a crazy hairdresser with horrible taste who got to where he is by dating Barbra Streisand and bullying people, but I was surprised that it also credited a couple important details of BATMAN to him. Most importantly, it says that it was his idea to cast Michael Keaton. That was an insane idea and possibly an accident but most people now seem to admire it. It was also his idea to do the posters with ONLY the bat-symbol and no credits. Warner Brothers was deadset against this and he actually grabbed an executive in his own office and pinned him up against a wall demanding no text on the poster. Another major contribution to the movie that is not is good is that he apparently outlined the entire last act of the movie when he decided the script wasn't working. That is probably a big part of the slow pace of the movie and it's why at one point Jack Nicholson, running up the stairs, asked Burton "Where am I going?" and Burton admitted, terrified, that he didn't know. Anyway, my point is that Peters is a maniac, he is nearly illiterate (according to the book, anyway) but he did have some important contributions to BATMAN especially from a marketing standpoint which is probably why WB still trust him. I can't explain why he survived WILD WILD WEST, though.
Christ Harry, let it go by SilenceofFreedom	Sep 27th, 2002 02:49:36 PM
The draft is
Cont. (dawn of the dead script ?!) by SilenceofFreedom	Sep 27th, 2002 02:54:31 PM
The draft is 100 percent perect for a re-imagining of Superman, which is precisely what this is. I have NO idea what all this retarded anger is with this draft. It sounds to me like a solid action script, and I would go see it in a second. Hopefully the studio doesn't listen to the nerds who are so bitter about not being able to see the exact same story and origin told countlessly in the original Superman films. This is Superman for the new millenium, not Superman for the 1950's. Let it go for once. This script is a godsend when compared to the "Scooby-Doo" script, or even the "Resident Evil" script. Harry, how can you tell us to read/watch the new "Dawn of the Dead" film by ignoring the other film, yet hold such anger towards the new Superman film ? The problem is, you won't forget about the other Superman's. That, my friend, is hypocrytical.
The Superman door is closed by puppy666	Sep 27th, 2002 03:01:00 PM
But other doors are opening. Look at the open doors, not the closed ones.
Why people are upset WB.. by FimbulWinter	Sep 27th, 2002 03:03:49 PM
OK - this is an open letter to the WB suits that may or may not be interested in this minor storm created by what may or may not be their working draft and early "creative" decisions for the Superman movie project. First, you have an established character and setting that people love and have loved for over 60 years. Most companies would kill for a (to use a term you'll be familiar with) "brand" with that kind of time-tested appeal, recognition and success. Why you would believe it wise to toy with it in fundamental ways is beyond comprehension and defies business logic, to say nothing for the seemingly significant creative implications apparent in this "retelling." Second, You HAVE gotten it right before. You have people working in your comics and animation even television (Smallville, not L&C) divisions RIGHT NOW that know a hell of a lot more about Superman than apparently you, Ratner or even Abrams do. These people DREAM about what a modern-made Superman movie would and could be. Why the HELL aren't they part of the creative process beyond your simple-minded "synergy"-related promotional considerations? These people ALREADY WORK FOR YOU and yet they aren't even let in the room for their input related the most crucial decisions and considerations. Who the hell in whatever position of authority that matters related to this project thinks this is the best way to do proceed? And why? I'll tell you why. Because JJ Abrams writes for a currently "popular" (subjective, that word) show that portrays a "young" hero character and Brett Ratner is, from here anyway, the most pliable and generic director with an RECENT record for helming high-grossing releases available. The motivations for these decisions are transparent at best and simple-minded and gutless at worst. That you think the audience is so naive and easily programmed is probably more insulting than anything actually put forth in this imagined movie or script draft. People get irritated when they hear or read this stuff because they are literally WAITING with money in their outstreteched hands for a good, modern-day Superman movie. People want IT and can see it in their mind's eye and they could not care less for the goddam lowest-common-denominator cross functional content and style guidelines it gives to your multimedia platforms and divisions. You need to start with the movie and the story and not some fairy-tale marketing plan that some MBA believe will play well at the X-games and Toys R Us. If you get that right the rest of it that you are so pre-occupied with will work better than even you can probably imagine. Guess what, if some people in the audience aren't familiar with the character as millions of people PERCEIVE him already, making fundamental and wrongheaded changes simply to be DIFFERENT and not BETTER aren't going to win you any significant converts past the first 3 days at the box office - to say nothing for any imagined sequels. To Abrams credit, there are some MOMENTS in the script that feel right but they are fiercely outnumbered and overpowered by wild tangents that turn the mythos of the character, the setting and yes, the "brand," on its head. In the end though, a new Superman movie is yours to play with and make the way you see fit, and these are just opinions of people that love your character/brand. Time will tell if you decide they are informed or uninformed opinions worth listening to and considering or not. PS - I like Keanu Reeves (a lot more than most people) but he is not Superman. No offense Keanu.
fanning the flames of fandom by oldmankensey	Sep 27th, 2002 03:20:41 PM
not my ultimate goal to arouse the ire of hundreds of impassioned comic fans, but... but this movie is already going to be made, promoted and released. To a lot of mainstream media coverage, which means that the interests of comic fans are irrelevant. AP doesn't care if the movie changes Superman's origins around, only about who is playing him and what they're being paid, and what their last hit or miss was. Do you really see Entertainment Weekly not putting this movie on their cover b/c of a revelation that Lex Luthor is a Kryptonian? That's not the sort of thing the movie will advertise. To people who don't live on the internet, it won't be a consideration, because it comes at the END of the movie. It's a twist. Most average moviegoers don't like to know twists in advance. They might get mad, but only after they've paid their money.Do you really think it won't open to Spider-Man sized business on a summer weekend b/c Ma Kent might get raped? Please. These are story elements that might not even make it to a final draft, and even if they do, they won't matter. because the subject matter (Superman) will sell, even if he's completely different than we're used to. This is not a defense of the script, mind you, which sounds potentially cool and certainly ballsy, but rather a level-headed response to the furious, flaming messages being posted here every few seconds. WB doesn't care, people. This movie and its marketing possibilities are bigger than Harry Knowles and his website, and I guarantee that no amount of bitching here will change a damned thing. That's not romantic, I know, but it's the truth, and there's got to be some sort of statute of limitations on profane, inarticulate bitching. If it vents spleens, then fine, but to try and apply it to the real world, to try to boycott WB product and harass the principals, that's just sad. Harry, inciting readers to violence against JJ Abrams at a book signing is just cowardly and lame, hardly worthy of even the smallest-time supervillain. I agree with an earlier post -- try to set up an interview with the man and ask tough questions then. But then, this site lacks the credibility needed to land such an interview, doesn't it. Don't worry, though --- when this movie gets released, you'll be able to hear what Abrams has to say when he's interviewed by every other popular film journal in the world, who will be smart enough to not treat their subjects with antagonism. BTW, I think Moriarty's review was excellent, well-written, and far superior to the psychotic responses it produced. He is the one reviewer on this site who reviews instead of hypes (or flames) and he deserves adulation for it. ok, so i lied...this got pretty antagonistic of you fanboys in the end. but remembet, it's just one man's opinion... prompted by the hilarious deluge of material he read while clicking onto the site today. and if i get responses telling me to read a comic book or to FUCKYOUSHITHEADFUCKERYYOU DON'T GET ITDUMBASS I'll just laugh, because I know my computer has an "off" button and I don't have to live on it.
Pot Calling The Kettle Black by rgarcia5	Sep 27th, 2002 03:22:38 PM
You say: "If you run a film website, just cease covering SUPERMAN after you organize your readership to protest. An absence of press the scariest thing. Just turn your backs on the property. Don't cover the casting stories. Until they get back to telling the story of SUPERMAN - they don't exist." Well, I sure hope this is the last I hear from you regarding this issue. However, I bet the money you will lose if you stop covering this will prevent you from doing what you want others to do. Whiner!
The script ridicules Jimmy for being gay by KONG33	Sep 27th, 2002 03:49:52 PM
And we're homophobic to contest that? I just don't see how you're going to explain what Jimmy's boyfriend's all about to your 7 year-old. Also, a six year-old saving his mother from sexual rape... and being called a monster for it. Will kids get what he was doing, and why it was right? UNGIFTEDAMATEUR - We get it, you disliked Spider-Man, so Superman can suck so we feel as bad as you did. I think the Donner film wasn't very good, but people from that time enjoy it, and it makes sense. When I read Ratner's comments about him being like Mos Def on IMDB.com I laughed out loud.
Will Mori let us read the good parts in the script? by KONG33	Sep 27th, 2002 03:50:30 PM
...?
Superman's origin by Hoof Hearted	Sep 27th, 2002 04:01:49 PM
I disagree that people won't care about the origin being changed. My Grandmother knows Superman's origin and she doesn't get into this stuff. Superman is a pop icon and his story is familiar to people. People will be upset after they see it (those who aren't now) and you know what that means? No repeat viewings, bad office water cooler reviews, means others won't go. That means less money. People will recognize that "thats not Superman" and the movie will die after the first week. Why? Because with huge budgets, two markets are of the utmost importance: 1. Repeat attendance and 2. Foriegn receipts. Bad reveiws will kill that. And I think you all that are for this thing, claiming its a re-imagining and perfect for the 21st century are worse than the ones going psycho over it. "Why would you want to see the exact same story over again?" Who said that? No one wants some trite walk the same path retelling? No one wants a boring rehash. And no one is against timely updates, like so many have you have cited, the comics have done it several times before, but what makes that ok is that the core of Superman stays the same. What makes this script so bad is that the core of Superman is changed. Superman is a permanent outsider, because he is the last( or nearly last) of his race and yet chooses to name himself protector of this planet. It is important to his make up as a character. Plus, isn't it obvious the character has been around so long and has retained popularity for a reason? Why mess that up? Name another pop culture character like that? Lets make a Bugs Bunny cartoon where Elmer Fudd is actually a rabbit in disguise. How about that? Its the same thing as the Luther thing. Thats what makes Luther so dangerous. Superman CAN'T fight him like all his other villians. He has to out think him, which isn't Supes strong suit. Which is why Luther is no match for Batman and why Batman kicks Superman's ass everytime they match up. Thats why some of these people are so angry. Why do you have to keep coming back here and arguing with them? Will you change their minds? No, but these people may reach WB and change theirs. So get off the TB and leave these people alone. They care about something and want to see it done right. And do they know whats right? Yes, they do, because they obviously spend alot of time with this character, and know what works and what doesn't. WB may listen. Then these people will be happy. The mainstreamers who don't specialize in Supes will be happy either way, why not try to please everyone? AICN is important, its a free focus group and if WB doesn't utilize it, they will regret it, just like Wild, wild west and Batman and Robin. The people on here aren't basement dwelling mole people, they have lives, and because of their passion in movies, most likely have friends who listen to their opinions about films. Word gets around. Raise your hand if you know someone in Media, print of TV? I bet a good number of us do. That kind of bad talk about this project will get around and kill it. Its already been noticed and doesn't look like it will stop. If WB does this film right, everyone will be happy and WB will make money. If not, looks like everyone loses. Its just that simple.
Querty Uiop, DevilCat, and the Efficacy of Fan Outrage. by Village Idiot	Sep 27th, 2002 04:14:28 PM
QWERTY UIOP, who exactly are you yelling at? You called someone a moron because they claimed that "Smallville is the way it is because of the last Superman script?" I don't recall anyone saying that. If by some chance you're talking to me. I would say that Smallville is "the way it is" to yes, appeal to the Buffy demo, but also to not piss off the Superman fanbase. That is why Jeph Loeb, a fairly acclaimed Superman writer, is consulting producer on the show. Again, Smallville takes plenty of liberties trying to appeal to the Dawson's Demo, but still keeps it fairly close to the established mythos. And if you weren't talking to me, move along please, nothing to see here._____Meanwhile, DEVILCAT, I'm afraid the petition we all signed is the one we're bound to. Any change would require a brand new petition. Man o man, I wish they'd been a little more careful with its construction, but as I said before, I hope the other points will carry it through._____And finally, regading the EFFICACY OF FAN OUTRAGE, it's simply a matter of two elements: the fan base and buzz. The fan base is, of course the "guaranteed" audience of established fans. This is the group that the WB is now losing. The expectations of the fanbase don't all have to be met, but the needs of the fanbase need to be satisfied. Meanwhile, and despite what old Saturday Night Live sketches with William Shatner tell you, the fan base does not live in a vacuum, and it's largely responsible for the momentum that builds for a movie. Fan base sentiments seep into the mainstream through basic word of mouth. I think this is what happened with LORD OF THE RINGS, which was a fairly fringe genre movie that was buoyed by tremendous word of mouth, while a similar movie DUNDGEONS AND DRAGONS laid an egg. And of course, there's always BATMAN AND ROBIN. The point is that any shrewd marketer out there will try to make sure the fanbase is happy, and at least thinks it's getting what it wants. This time, we seem to be wise to it.
Village idiot. by Qwerty Uiop	Sep 27th, 2002 04:21:06 PM
Nope, not you, my man. I was talking to Ungifted amatuer. I generally agree with your posts. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
DC Films by mojoflow	Sep 27th, 2002 04:30:32 PM
How cool would it be for AOL to spin off a 'DC Films' production company to deal specifically with migrating their comic book characters to the screen? What if you got creators on the titles to collaborate on these ventures? What if in addition they worked on getting Wildstorm and Vertigo characters to the screen? Drool... I just wish AOL knew they had more than two superhero properties. I mean even Marvel's current success began with B-character Blade. Work your way up toward Batman and Superman AOL. Start with characters that don't need such big budgets to be realized onscreen. (i.e. Blade) Man, a crime drama featuring Nightwing? Drool...
not to defend the idea...but by reteif	Sep 27th, 2002 04:39:38 PM
A classic story arc is the "Hero makes decision that affects own history" - a classic... what if the three film arc involves seeing a Krypton that could have been, but in the third installment, Superman has to make a decision that leads to the destruction of his home planet...this satisfies all in a fairly broad sweep...
You can feed a dog the same food for 10 years, and sometimes he& by The Founder	Sep 27th, 2002 04:53:29 PM
Case in point with HJollywood using the same formula for big budget summer blockbusters. I guess they at the WB feel that by putting in the elements of popular films like the Matrix, we'll like it. People kkep saying that we fans don't have much power, no while true, it's that fans that go back for the repeat viewings more so then the average movie goer. I saw Spiderman 4 times, now although my sisters, brother, girlfriend, parents and freinds saw Spidey, they didn't go twice, so believe in the power of the fans all, and don't let some of these naysayers disencourage our efforts. I know we can't make Superman a complete bomb, because I know using simple logic that this film no matter how bad or if Warners change the orgin and make Superman a genetic experiment the movie will still gross at it's lowest between 400-500 million dollars worldwide based on the Superman name alone, but we can make a dent, and prevent Spiderman like numbers, but yeah we'll get sequals as well. It's pretty much a given. Even though the film will make a profit the lost revenue that Warners predicted will still hgurt them and anger them. They are aiming for Spidey like profits toward the billion dollar ballpark.
What part of "rocketed to earth as a baby from the DOOMED planet by the G-man	Sep 27th, 2002 04:56:31 PM
Not "rocketed to earth from the quite intact, but eventually, like thirty years later, destroyed in a civil war planet Krypton."
heh heh thas right.... by Nine18Pictures	Sep 27th, 2002 05:01:47 PM
....DOLEMITE!!!!!
Boycott WB by lynxpro	Sep 27th, 2002 05:08:04 PM
Why doesn't anyone remember how effective the "Spider-Man Expatriots Society" was in killing the Clone Saga? That was back when the internet still had not hit critical mass and we not only got the storyline killed, but we were even mentioned in the Wall Street Journal (and some members were interviewed)! If you want this script killed, go to oneshare.com and start buying AOL Time Warner shares. For the price of a movie ticket and popcorn, you can own one share in the company. Blow some money on 'em and then you'll have a definite right to make your voice heard to the board of directors. Going to the AOL Time Warner board of directors and getting them all pissed off is the best chance of sacking this film. www.aoltimewarner.com, go there and get their corporate address by writing an email to their investor relations address. Write to Ted Turner. Ted is furious over how much AOL's stock has declined in the last year because not only does it hurt his wealth, it also curtails his goal of giving $1 billion to the UN over ten years. If you convince him that the monkeys at Warner Bros. Pictures are about to destroy Superman and cause $100 million + in production (not counting marketing) to be wasted, he's not going to be a happy man. He himself is trying to get Steve Case, the chairman of AOL ousted, and Steve is a large AOL shareholder. Do you really think it would be hard for Ted to oust some of the directors at WB Pictures? Hell, New Line is outshining WB by leaps and bounds. What has WB Pictures done this year? Pluto Nash, Murder by Numbers, just krap with a capital K. So in summary, let's get some real strategy going. Start buying AOL stock and let your voice be heard. Someone throw up a "Boycott Warner Bros. Pictures" website up and threaten to not go to any WB film until Abrams, Ratner and Co. are thrown off the project. When a WB film opens, go see whatever the other studios open the same day. Mail the AOL Time Warner board of directors your ticket stub. Then don't buy any Warner Bros. Home Video DVD releases. If a boycott like that happens, this script will be dropped faster than Jason Alexander's television show. Make the memory of the Expatriots live on, and be felt today...
I FUCKING HATE BRETT RATNER! by jspot	Sep 27th, 2002 05:31:53 PM
He has zero talent...the rush hour movies took no direction whatsover...it was all Chan and Tucker, and the Family Man was the biggest shit fest ive ever sat through...i understand im a stereotype right now...ie bashing someone on the internet...but ill come out and say it, i fucking hate brett ratner...hes a moron with a camera, if he even touches superman he'll fuck it up...he sucks...YOU SUCK RATNER, you no talent fuck.
Hahah, you sweaty fanboys... by Monkey Lover	Sep 27th, 2002 05:34:05 PM
It will be hilarious at that book signing. The fat dirty fanboy morons will be trying to flirt with Jennifer Garner at the same time they're slagging off Abrams. "Uh-hmm, err... hi Jennifer, can I say you look nice today, my name is Brian by the way, but HEY FUCK YOU ABRAMS YOU FUCKING FUCK YOU RAPED MY CHILDHOOD WITH YOUR SHIT SUPERSHIT YOU FUCKING FUCK, but yes, so would you let me buy you lunch, Jennifer? I have all your posters in my bedroom, right next to my life-size Aragorn cut-out. BUT FUCK ABRAMS UP THE ASS."
Go ahead, WB... by Monkey Lover	Sep 27th, 2002 05:37:09 PM
Make the movie. These fanboys are fucking retarded morons. What the fuck is the point in releasing a new Superman that's exactly the same as all the rest? Why not fuck around with it a bit? Anything that pisses off fanboys normally turns out to be good, like organic webshooters. Fanboys should shut their whiny asses up and go take a shower. Stinkin' fucks.
Oh,God Damn You People! Get a fucking grip and listen to my word by Atlantis2001	Sep 27th, 2002 05:37:27 PM
Here is what is going to happen...it's a first draft and they are going to fix it, because the WB isn't going to go though "Batman and Robin" again. Brett Ratner is a very good director and this will be a great movie because I have faith that they will get this right...this script does sound shitty right now but we got time and so just clam the fuck down and have some optimism people! J.J.Abrahms has one great T.V. show in "Alias", so he's still a good writter in spite of whatever happens with "Superman"...Jon Peters is ok,and I actually was one of the few people who liked "Wild Wild West"...oh,and don't get on me about that.I just liked really liked the action,special effects and having Will Smith in it... anyways come on people.Have some maturity here...sometimes that's hard to find around here but really,we got until 2004 and lots can happen in between then.So have some faith people and don't become whiney,over-dramatic, hate spouting little bitches about it!
Sick the Hulk Dogs on Everyone Working at Time Warner by hipcheck13	Sep 27th, 2002 05:45:08 PM
Hey, it's a start.
how about some of you READ the 'supposed' draft before b by Devils Halo	Sep 27th, 2002 05:45:22 PM
WHAT? YOU CAN'T? because you don't have a copy of the draft!! and all the information you have to act upon is someone's supposed 'review'? this 'review' is no more than an 'opinion'. it's fine to have an 'opinion'. everyone is entitled to an 'opinion'. but how can so many of you blind sheep follow the 'opinion' of one person without having seen or read the source material before developing your own 'opinion'?
Actually, DevilsHalo, Mori's review is more than opinion by the G-man	Sep 27th, 2002 05:58:52 PM
In that he did not simply go "this script sucks." Instead, Mori, gave a detailed descripton of the plot, with specific scenes and even some dialogue. And what he described was really terrible.
ratner, that rat bastard.... by donaldsutherland	Sep 27th, 2002 06:07:02 PM
here is a sampling of what he supplied to IMDB as his bio.. "Ratner grew up in Miami Beach, the only child of a famous Jewish socialite mother. He attended NYU film school. He also dated Rebecca Gayheart for many years; however, now he is single. He lives in a $3.6 M house in Beverly Hills, and has four assistants..." anyone who insists on the world knowing that he lives in a "$3.6 M house and has four assistants" is so far gone that petitions are fruitless.
And Yet We Practically Cream Ourselves When Bryan Singer Turns X by Buzz Maverik	Sep 27th, 2002 07:09:19 PM
The worst part of that is that Marvel turns around and makes the comic book characters look like the movie characters. We're told, "What works in a comic won't work in a movie." Maybe. I kinda doubt that, but okay. But they never say the reverse, "What works in a movie doesn't necessarily work it a comic." So we're getting dominatrix Elektra and Neo-Bullseye in DAREDEVIL comics for no good reason.
Say, Isn't Ratner The Guy Who Chickened Out Of Having Sex Wi by Buzz Maverik	Sep 27th, 2002 07:12:07 PM
That guy isn't qualified to make a SUPERMAN movie. They should get Spicoli!
Did Anybody Catch The Kevin and Bean Show On The Radio Station K by ILoveEwksAndJJar	Sep 27th, 2002 07:13:14 PM
Just wondering. Because J.J Abrams was on it. And I was at school.
Harry is going to get another movie fucked up...talk about ARROG by Moriarity Report	Sep 27th, 2002 07:15:59 PM
Yes, Harry will probally delete my ass for standing up to his bullshit on this matter, but fuck it. I usually agree with Harry and I love him for his contributions he's made to film but Harry and his Legion of Super Fan Boys have gone too far this time. This was probally a great script and now it will never get made and we'll get some boring "by the book" numbers. The only part of the Donner film that most people can agree was "perfect" was the whole origin and Smallville parts. The pretty much was just average. Lex Luthor sucked, Lois Lane sucked, and Clark Kent was a lampoon. But because it was made 25 years ago it's a classic and therefore Gospel. Just like every fuckin issue of the comic booke series' ever made. And the cartoons. God forbid anyone try to take Supermans 70 year old ass in a new direction. First lets start with the costume. Christ, its so pathetically outdated, how can you Not change it? I agree that it doesnt have to be as radical as making it black but it needs to be updated. They should have done it in the books years ago. Did you complain when they changed the X-mens costumes to black? Nope because its "cool" to like that movie. And changing Batman's costume to black in the film was inspired. It doesn't make sense in the "real world" for people to be running around in brightly colored suits. Harry do you think that your average everyday person, or even average everyday geek is a Superman expert like yourself? The film is not being made for the Superman experts who have every single issue ever made and who love the Fleischer cartoons. Its unbelievable how many times Harry uses the word "arrogant" here. Harry, yes you do have power in Hollywood. But you are not paid talent. You have no fucking talent, hate to let you know it, or you would be writing and directing Hollywood movies. But now you're going to fuck up a perfectly good movie just to suit you and your cronies needs. Just like you did your damndest to try to fuck Batman and Robin, which compared to the shit that was the other Batman movies, was brilliant. I think anyone who is not biased can see that Batman & Robin was Far more enjoyable than the other Batman movies. Did it delve into Batman's warped right wing, tortured, do gooder mentality? Not at all. But did the other films attempt to do that in the slightest either? Unfortunatley the answer is...fuck no. If you think the Burton films even began to delve into Batman's psyche I dont know what to say. Batman Forever got into the mind of Batman far better than the Burton films did. And thats what really counts when creatintg a comic book movie, as I think we've learned recently from X-men and Spider-man. They have to keep in mind the main themes of the story and play up the characters psychological and emotional journeys. Im sorry they changed Wolverines gay boy yellow outfit to black Harry, but it worked. And Im sorry they put nipples on Batmans black costume in Batman & Robin, but they did manage to put the viewer in this fictinal world called Gotham City. Burtons films had lovely sets though, but the viewer was hardly absorbed in Gotham the way we were in Batman & Robin. And they had Michael Keaton, maybe thats what Harry wants, a comedian to play Superman. How about...Tom Hanks? As long as he's in the tradional Supes suit, Im sure Harry would be delighted.-----Scripts. I really don't understand the point of reading scripts before you see the film. Supposedly you are reading them because you are interested in the story, but then when you see the movie you already know everything thats going to happen, so then the film actually Has no story for you. And this Superman script is actually a story that has a few surprises in it, and now Harry wants them CHANGED!!! People, everybody under the age of 100 knows the story of Superman. And we all can agree that the Krypton segment was the best part of Donners film. Its perfect. We love you Anthony Hopkins but you're no Marlon Brando. So why try to copy it?Well, thanks for helping to get us a boring, by the numbers retelling of Superman Harry. Its not a fucking science people. Its art, theres room for interpretation. Its the themes that matter. It's not important where Luthor comes from. He's an acrhtypal villain. It doesn't matter if Krypton blows up or not. The point is that Superman is millions of light years away from it and he can't go back ever, and he's a stranger in a strange land. I can't believe people would dwell on little things like these.
Howard Stern by Brucewayne777	Sep 27th, 2002 07:20:07 PM
Stern would mention something like this on the air if he got a hold of the info. Everyone I've mentioned this to, most of them have never picked up a comic in their lives, hate the idea of fucking with Superman. We need to ge this across to the american people before WB can put their media spin on it.
rip off by lynxpro	Sep 27th, 2002 07:23:42 PM
There is a way to salvage this whole civil war concept into an epic Superman film. Superman is complacent on our world. There is no challenge for him. He is heroic, but the "powers that be" decide he needs to learn about his own mortality...to think about his actions instead of relying upon his super strengths on Earth. The "powers that be" give him his ultimate wish. They take him back to the past of Krypton, to the events that lead to its destruction. We learn that General Zod is ultimately responsible for Krypton's destruction. Kal-El is given the chance to stop him, and to meet his family but he cannot reveal himself to them. But there is a twist. If he saves Krypton out of his own sense of selfishness (to preseve it and regain the destiny stolen by him), it will still wind up a dictatorship of Zod's, or Brainiac. Even worse, by Superman's absence, the Earth goes down the toilet. Humanity never rises above its own baseness because it is robbed of its champion, Superman. Lex Luthor rules the downtrodden, and humanity eventually disappears in chaos. Thus Kal-El chosing to save his homeworld becomes genocide for humanity. The Powers that be want mankind to disappear because they feel the species is unworthy of later greatness... And Superman thus choses not to save Krypton in the end... Yeah, I know, a modified borrowing from "Genesis of the Daleks" and several other SF storylines... but hey, it beats a gay L-Ron!
They wanted to fuck-up Sandman too by laguna_loire	Sep 27th, 2002 07:45:47 PM
Years ago Neil Gaiman was in talks with a regard to making the first Sandman graphic novel into a movie, until Jon Peters wanted to dump the content and make him a superhero akin to Batman, rather than the antihero/thinker that he is. If Warner really think they can push this slop out and expect us all to go and see it they can shove it. It beggars belief, I mean, why do they buy these licences and then change the product? Can't they see that people like the quirks?
The Problem, Moriarity Report, Is That Luthor SHOULDN'T Be by ILoveEwksAndJJar	Sep 27th, 2002 07:45:55 PM
Most of your post is about how the Batman movies suck. I agree. But what does that have to do with the Superman script...?
wow... by Syd Welles	Sep 27th, 2002 07:55:50 PM
This is a case where the love of the fans, and their concern well placed, but over blown. Dont get me wrong, no one wants a shitty Superman movie, I certainly dont; but this is a huge overreaction that while allowing the studio to know that the fans will not accept a fucked up retelling of Superman, it has also let us be seen as a bunch of tactless, spoiled geeks that cant think past a bad review on a first draft of a film that has been tenative at best in the past 10 years. Im sure everyone remembers the Spider-Man scares... "what?! Organic web shooters?! That doesnt make sense!" Yeah, that will never work.. theres no way that could add to the character. Oh and let us not forget about the rest of the changes that did and did not make it into the FINAL script for the film. Dont get me wrong, Superman being sent to earth from the doomed planet Krypton, Lex Luthor being his greatest adversary and HUMAN, are both very important points in supe's mythos, but there are other things that can be changed. And for god's sake, stop citing the comic as though it has always been faithful to one version of Superman. Golden age, pre-crisis, post crisis, dead, reborn, "electric" sheesh. The writers could have been on a little "red kryptonite" if you know what i mean. As for the Donner version.. it was fun back then... really. That was back then. Buy the DVDs and let the rest of us have a new version. Because honestly, that would flop today. I think that if a Spidey-esque angle was taken... many things faithful, with a few surprises and changeups tossed in... and some serious winks and nods to the fanboy audience, everything would be cool. But we'll never get to that point if someone cant write a goddamn first draft script without everyone burning the WB logo in effigy and threatening to boycott anything having to do with Warner brothers, Superman, comic books, oxygen, the sun, bunny rabbits, the color blue, and anyone that doesnt have the origin of the super pets memorized. (and before you bitch about it, yes... I do.) -Syd Here, help get the discussion going over here on the boards: http://placeboproductions.net
well.... by As0ka	Sep 27th, 2002 09:20:12 PM
its really sad when news of a new superman movie getting actually made enrages fans, when it should be delighting them. When you already have over 7000 people with a negative view on the movie, before its even been shot, or an actor been cast, you know that the flicks in trouble. I know warner doesnt give a shit about the fans, but they do care about the money, so for that reason alone I truley believe they well fix the problems with the script...otherwise they will lose some superman toilet paper money=P
Why Does The Petition say Lex Luthor Isn't An Evil Man by R_Nathan	Sep 27th, 2002 09:23:20 PM
Why does the petition say Lex Luthor is not an evil man? Of course he's evil. I agree he wouldn't want to blow up the world, but that doesn't make him "not an evil man."
Ideas on how to FIGHT BACK..(WB Affiliates) by BorinquenSon	Sep 27th, 2002 10:04:10 PM
Contact your local WB network affiliate via regular mail or E-mail. Send them the blurb in the corona article about the discussions of canceling "Smallville". Heck send them printed copies of the Corona article with the "Smallvile" parts highlighted. It helps even more if you live close to a big TV market like LA or New York. The WB affiliates will not be too happy with the possibility of losing one of their highest rated shows. Trust me, it this will cause some waves.
Superman reinvented, please, total bull crap!!! by redintheface	Sep 27th, 2002 10:10:33 PM
Warner Bros must be composed of some real losers if they make this film. CIA Agent Lex Luthor, please, its awful, disgraceful, thats not reinvention, its the X-Files, or XMen, just call him Senator Kelly or something. The whole Krypton not exploding and all, and the fight at home, its ridiculous, its like The Matrix meets Lord of the Rings or something. Horrible, Warner Bros, you hear me, horrible. This is not something new, Superman has sixty years of history, cartoons, movies, television shows, oh, and did I forget, comic books. Source material is leading the way now. Just look at what is working. Forget about the money, if you make the film right you'd make the money. I know some people have complaints about Smallville. But I tend to think its one of the better adaptations of the television genres. As they let that show mature, run it for 3 more years then end it, continue it with Tom Welling as Superman. He acts the part and just look at why that show is successful, Lex isn't in the CIA nor does he plan on it. Look at the Donner films Warner Bros, add ILM special effects, a Williams score, a great story true to the comic book, add actors who make the part, not some skinny prune that has super powers, and that can most of all act from the source material. Otherwise, its just going to be Batman and Robin and then the franchise will be really buried. They'll resurrect Batman then, and they'll reinvent him with Alfred being some Korean martial arts champion that teaches Bruce the ways of tao. Later.
Find your own voice! by neverintendtouse	Sep 27th, 2002 10:14:11 PM
Go to www.warnerbros.com and click on the "E-mail your favorite star" link. Send your own thoughts, and not some pre-fab petition, to Alan Horn, Brett Ratner and Jon Peters. When fans bring down WB's email system, then they'll pay attention. 10,000 individual letters has way more impact than 10,000 signatures on a petition.
Ideas on how to FIGHT BACK..(Comic Book Shops) by BorinquenSon	Sep 27th, 2002 10:26:36 PM
Contact your local comic book stores. Bring copies of the articles by Mori, Harry and Corona. If they wish to join the cause, ask them to complain through their distributors. Remember, these people make money off this "property". They should complain about the possible damage done to the "property". Or at least ask them to help to spread the word.
Go to www.warnerbros.com and email a star, second the notion of by redintheface	Sep 27th, 2002 10:27:47 PM
None
TALK BACK to Warners by biltonr	Sep 27th, 2002 10:34:10 PM
I don't think an online petition is going to have much effect - but I know what will. Talking directly to JJ Abrams, Ratner, & WB about your feelings about the script and the direciton of the project. Here are some phone numbers. Please use them responsibility (yeah right!) Warner Brothers Pictures (818) 954-6000 (just ask the operator for Alan Horn's office) Brett Ratner's Prod. Office (Rat Ent.) 310-228-5000 Alias TV production office 818-560-4935
Email a Star ... now THERE is a solution by ADigitalMan	Sep 27th, 2002 10:51:21 PM
I wonder if WB will pussy out and take down the link once the mail starts rolling in. Ever think that Warner's monopoly on the comic-to-movie biz is waning, and right now they're kinda like Great Britain after WWII ... watching the empire dissolve? Marvel's time is here, and hopefully they have learned everything from Warner's mistakes with DC comic franchises. The Hulk sounds kinda unsubstantive but the rest are kicking ass and taking names, so bully for Marvel! Personally, I'd love for Warner/DC to reclaim their place with Superman and Batman, but dumb fucking Holly-weird execs don't appreciate canon. Just imagine if we really had to re-invent the wheel every 20 years.
Ideas on how to FIGHT BACK..( Writing Campaign) by BorinquenSon	Sep 27th, 2002 11:05:55 PM
Write an E-mail clearly stating your feelings about the new movie. Please be polite and to the point. You can include links to the articles by Mori, Harry and Corona. You can say on the subject line "We will not see Superman in 2004" Here are some links: http://www.amctheatres.com/ http://www.regalcinemas.com/ http://www.loewscineplex.com/ http://www.nationalamusements. com/home.asp Also if you wish, you can send this letter to your local film distributor. Also sending regular mail letters will help.
dear WB (i'll be nice), by ryan mecum	Sep 27th, 2002 11:48:16 PM
hi, i also dont think the script sounds too smart of a move. heres why: spider-man. it was HUGE!!! why was it huge? because it was an amazing re-telling of the comic so many of us grew up reading. the same goes with superman. we would LOVE to see an amazingly well done film with the current technology and smarts that was shown with spiderman, but we would also like it to be something we can relate our past to. its like doing another indiana jones movie, but making him a gay black woman. sure, it might be interesting, but that is genuinely not what we want. that script review makes the script sound interesting, but it is SO much unlike the comic, that you are going to lose us and we will loath it. trust me, many of us still hate poor j. shuemauker for his batman movies because it strayed from the comic that we grew up loving. with spiderman, they all seemed to take the sourse very seriously, and with seemingly great love and care, created a near perfect re-telling of the character. that is what we want you to make, and if you do, the money will roll in... and thats the underlining goal right? well, hire people who love superman and have loved superman for a long time, and then make a movie for those of us who love superman and have loved superman for a long time. if you even ATTEMPT to do that, i will be there more than once. but if you try to "hip it up" with fun new twists, we will probably see that as a mockery of the origin we have read so much about. good luck with this, i really want it to turn out amazing. ryan mecum
I lost you, John Murdoch? I thought I had you at "hello." by Village Idiot	Sep 28th, 2002 12:08:00 AM
Laughable? Well, I'm always glad to entertain, but let's look at the comparison again to see if it's really so funny. LORD OF THE RINGS and DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS were both motion pictures (heh), both fantasy genre (sword and sorcery) motion pictures, which theoretically would be catering to the same audience. If you're a LORD OF THE RINGS fan, it's reasonable to assume you might be interested in DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS (and for you few remaining gaming fans out there, vice-versa). Both received a fair amount of advance publicity via the internet. Both had credible talent involved (no, not Marlon Wayans, Jeremy Irons). One failed, the other didn't. I didn't see DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS because the buzz from the fanboys, the fan base, was not good. I did see LORD OF THE RINGS because the buzz from the fan base was good. These weren't my sole considerations, but they did have a strong influence in my decision, and I would imagine for a lot of other people as well. The point is that buzz, even from the geeks, matters. And since the buzz often begins with the geeks, it matters a lot. Many of the geeks at this site (I would argue the vast majority) HATE the Abrams/Peters SUPERMAN ideas described by Moriarty. And if the project goes forward, there will likely be dire consequences for the movie's box office as a result. Luckily, it's not too late for WB to start fresh.
Just for the record Moriarty Report by FimbulWinter	Sep 28th, 2002 12:12:38 AM
The organic web shooters are still lameass and that Power Ranger supervillian might have been the bad guy but it really wasn't the green goblin. And truthfully, any IDIOT that thinks that pseudo-movie Batman & Robin did a good job of ANYTHING is just too monumentally out of touch to have a valid take on any of this. BATMAN AND friggin ROBIN? Look, nobody that has any vested interest in how this turns out (inluding probably all of the people here) want to see a shot for shot or plot point for plot point remake of the old film. If that's what you and the WB folks think that's what this complaining amounts to this project is in even more trouble than any of us have thought. It's really simple: Tell a story with some respect and acknowledgement for the basic mythos and most people would be more than happy. I've said it before: people wait and have been waiting a LONG time for a modern Superman movie. We don't get that many shots at seeing heroes and characters we love get the big screen treatment and when it's gonna happen it'd be nice not to have to tolerate someone's indifferent postmodern riff that invokes all of the pop-culture flavors-of-the-month in the process. Wake up and give the people what they want or at least pretend to care about what they want if you expect them to give you their money. It's pretty simple really.
You can E-mail WB by Supermanis#1	Sep 28th, 2002 12:17:34 AM
You can E-mail Warner Bros. and tell them how you feel about the script here...... http://www2.warnerbros.com/web /help/help_feedback.jsp
LOL WBs KNOWS ABOUT THIS LOL by dragaxx	Sep 28th, 2002 12:18:24 AM
From superherohype.com "WB are absolutely furious at Aint It Cool News' review of the script and is complete panic mode. Heads are rolling and the entire studio is in turmoil. It seems they are scared to death they may have another BATMAN & ROBIN situation on their hands (they do) where negative buzz kills the film before it is even released. " I'm glad they are furious... it was about time lol
It ain't over till WB says something......... by Supermanis#1	Sep 28th, 2002 12:26:56 AM
Till they come out with something saying that they are going to rewrite the script, It ain't over. We need to send as many E-mails as we can to tell them what we think about this script. Do it here....... http://www2.warnerbros.com/web /help/help_feedback.jsp
I fully support Warner Brothers! Remake away!!! by Playkins	Sep 28th, 2002 12:57:29 AM
I liked the "reimagining" of "Planet of the Apes", too. I love remakes. I'm still hoping to see a remake of "Forbidden Planet", and I loved the "Lost in Space" movie. I'm glad to see new versions of these old stories. Superman has been done tens of times to perfection. Why does anyone want to see the same story again? Just go watch Superman 1&2 if you want that. I think you all REALLY need to chill out; there are so many more important things to worry about. And lets not forget that the average "non-geek" has probably never read a Superman comic, and couldn't care less whether or not Krypton blows up. So there.
Organic web shooters by Qwerty Uiop	Sep 28th, 2002 01:09:52 AM
I liked the Organic Web shooters and thought it made sense that if a radioactive spider bite gave you super spider powers, that one of them would be webs. Of course, if I got super spider powers, the webs would probably shoot out of my ass, making swinging around the city a lot less impressive. Hows that for a visual? But back to topic: C'mon guys, throw the poo at J.J. at his book signing. Lets register our distaste firmly. Its the American way. Think of your forefathers. I'd be right there with you, if I didn't live out of town, but really it'll be great. Just remember to run afterwards. Capes! Wear red capes too! Themes, People! Organize!
Alex Ross is universally accepted as best Supes artist?No way by Joe Mammary	Sep 28th, 2002 01:40:57 AM
I think whoever came up with that truth is fulla shit. IMO, Jose Luis Garcia Lopez, Adam Hughes, John Byrne,etc did much superior Supermen, but hey, maybe you're right. But I don't think Alex Ross is as universally loved as you make him out to be. Talented yeah, boring ass pictures..yeah.Rips off loomis?Hell yeah. His Supes looks like an old fart for fucks sake. Speak up supes fans, I wanna hear if that 'truth' is for real.
THIS JUST IN... by coop	Sep 28th, 2002 02:28:39 AM
- "Warner Bros. may scrap the current script for Superman Lives now that a negative script review has popped up on Aint It Cool News. WB execs don't want another Batman & Robin bomb on their hands. The JJ Abrams script that Moriarty reviewed contains elements like the planet Krypton didn't explode, Superman is fulfilling some Krypton prophesy and Lex Luthor is really from Krypton too."
A newly minted petition signature. by nverman	Sep 28th, 2002 02:36:39 AM
Harry, that was an uncharacteristically eloquent letter "sniffle, sniffle", and you have my signature. Well done young lad! Oh, and another thing to the talkbackers--enough with the rape talk already (referring to some talkbackers who insist the wives of the various directors, producers, screenwriters, et cetera, attached to this abhorrent film should be raped), it ain't funny and it is really abhorrent in its own right.
Here's my own 'revised' Superman origin ... I submit by adriantullberg	Sep 28th, 2002 02:55:44 AM
Jor-El, Krypton's eminent bio-genetist, and his wife Lara, starship engineer, have just completed a Conception Reading; where both their genetic material was artifically combined to create a child. Little Kal-El should be woven within a month. This happy occassion does little to dampen the reality of the world around them, Krypton is in the grip of a destructive civil war. the once centuiries old planetary society has fractured over possession over large deposits of a radioactive crystal that can power a faster-than-light stardrive. The South Bloc possesses superior technology but comparatively little resources, the North Bloc has superior resources (including the radioactive mineral) but less technological resources. At the present moment, the North Bloc are using a nasty green radioactive gas which can selectively attack Kryptionian Humanoid biology, and leave everything else untouched. General Zod, defacto leader of the South Bloc, is pressuring Jor-El to complete his Bio-Aura project, which would give genetically modified warriors tremendous strength and power via exposure to Krypton's sun, including partial protection against the Green Gas. Jor-El has had success in giving volunteers enhanced abilities under yellow solar radiation, but has yet to conduct preliminary trials on Bio-Aura enhancement. Jor-El is afraid of giving Zod such power, due to the constant crackdowns on basic liberties and rights, more excessive than the war could ever permit, anything akin to democracy is only given face value. Lara, while conducting research on streamlining energy consumption on FTL drives, overhears a conversation between two of Zod's officers. It is revealed that Zod has been ignoring peace overtures, deliberately provoking and prolonging the war in order to replace the benign original government with his own totalarian dictatorship, using Jor-El's Bio-Aura project to win the war once he has ensured complete dominance. Jor-El and Lara decide to blow the lid off Zod's plans, but something else comes into play; the North Bloc's last ditch attack. Hundreds of gas missiles saturate the last remaining cities of the South Bloc, causing wholesale genocide. And the gas is modified to kill all forms of life, not just Kryptonian cells. Zod reveals that he and several of his best soldiers have taken the liberty of giving themselves a variation of Jor-El's project, allowing them to absorb virtually all forms of electromagnetic energies as well as red solar radiation, giving them unprecedented enhancements. He and his forces take off to exterminate the North Bloc. Knowing time is limited, Jor-El and Lara make a horrific discovery; allowing such unregulated absorbsion of energy causes near uncontrollable psychosis. Also, the remaining gas will be vented by opening dimensional portals from Krypton to other worlds, where the radiation levels would kill any life, not just Kryptonians. Performing experiments on the gas shows that it can be fused with it's original element (the radioactive space mineral that caused the civil war in the first place) to form a new radioactive element, poisonous to Kryptonians but with a very limited range. With access to the dimensional transportation technology, the application is simple. Unfortunately the fusing reaction is highly explosive, and with the quantities of the gas ... With virtually an extinct population and facing living under Zod's super-powered thumb, Jor-El and Lara begins their work. While Lara lashes together a space worthy vehicle, Jor-El brings his gestating son to his lab, emplanting his DNA with a combined version of his yellow-sun and Zod's enhancements. This will give his son far greater powers than Zod, but only under a yellow sun, without the destructive psychosis. Just as they make their final preparations, Zod bursts in and fatally wounds them both. They survive long enough to throw the final switches ... The ship takes off. The poisonous gas is vented to the North where is fuses with the radioactive material. Zod and his cronies board a battlecruiser and make a dimensional jump ... but due to their haste, are caught in the space between dimensions known as the Phantom Zone. The tiny ship with it's precious cargo travels to the one planet with near-Kryptonian conditions and possessing a yellow sun; Earth ... Thoughts?
And, if Jimmy Olsen is at Helm's deep - I'm walking out! by cookiepuss	Sep 28th, 2002 03:14:40 AM
Sorry - couldn't resist.
Foreign Superwoman by CDG24	Sep 28th, 2002 03:30:45 AM
Let's just make Superman a Latin woman who works at the Gap and doesn't have a cape but does have a nice dress that makes her dance really well and all of her enemies would rather watch her dance than do evil things. She will also have an martial arts trained Robin as a European love interest/sidekick who is a stand-up commedian on the side and does not know he is gay. Musical numbers and hilarity ensue. Superwoman played by Charo. Robin played by Hugh Grant. Directed by Baz Luhrman. Soundtrack from Gloria Estefan.
At least Paul Anderson isn't the director by CDG24	Sep 28th, 2002 03:32:52 AM
Just remember Ratner could turn it down to start on Rush Hour 3 and they could hand the film over to Paul Anderson.
Oh yes, the organic webshooters ruined Spider-man for IDIOTS lik by Moriarity Report	Sep 28th, 2002 04:06:45 AM
...And oh yeah,Superman should get his powers from the sun and only from the sun because if he didn't that would be IDIOTIC. And oh yeah, Peter should have gotten his powers from and iradiated spider and not a genetically enchanced one. And Clark needs to meet Lois at the Daily Planet and not at a party because these little details are so important to making a great adaption of a superhero film wah waaaahhhh WAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!! Yup Im an idiot because I thought Tim Burtons films were complete shit and actually found Batman & Robin entertaining but that means I don't know shit and I don't know anything about comics or movies. Because any geek who lives his life in a comic store, or any geek who writes for a movie gossip website knows more than an established writer like Abrams who actually does write a popular superhero show. The shit people are dwelling on makes no sense. The script, from McWeenies biased opinion, sounded spot on Superman to me. Having battles that level whole cities? That's comics all the way. And the new age spiritualism stuff is spot on too. These people are from a civialization millions of years ahead of our own. You believe a man can fly, but not come back from the dead? Okay. I mean, its not like they've never killed off Supes in the comics and brought him back. I'll never understand comic fans like this who feel that everything needs to be in continuity with the comics series. ITS A NEW UNIVERSE PEOPLE. No I do not feel it's about people wanting a remake of the first film. I feel its about fanboys dwelling on all the samll little details. Superman is bigger than the little details. Superman is about something much bigger, and if you dont see that then maybe you are the ones who don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Superman is a 70 year old creation, people want a few surprises. I think its a freaking fantastic idea that Krypton doesn't blow up. It opens up a whole new realm of possibilities. Maybe the sequel can take plac on Krypton for the whole film! Except, oh yeah, thanks to all the EXPERTS who jack off to Tim Burtons Batman every night, this great film will never get made.
I think the movie should be called Talkbackers Bash Ratner with by Chaffro	Sep 28th, 2002 04:08:08 AM
"Get in line, brothers. Now, who's first?"
DD trailer looked almost like a Matrix remake by KONG33	Sep 28th, 2002 04:08:27 AM
shot-for-shot. Same actor. Frankly, I'm worried.
"Toys R This travesty was all about GREED by Glitcher	Sep 28th, 2002 04:11:40 AM
It's greed, boys and girls, pure and simple. The more significant changes that "certain parties" can wreak on the established Superman legend, the bigger their $$$ share of all the licensing, merchandising and ancillary markets. This has always been the M.O. at Warners regarding this property, ever since they got all the rights back from the Salkinds. In the mid-90's "Death of Superman" drafts, there were various storylines with Superman coming back in a new costume (more $$$) and/or driving a "Supermobile" (still more $$$) until his powers fully returned.
"From the people who gave you Batman vs. Scooby Doo" by KONG33	Sep 28th, 2002 04:30:15 AM
...and Baby Looney Tunes (girls! buy the plush toys!)...JJ Abram's 'Kung Fu Superman'! Ah YEAH! I thought BATMAN AND ROBIN was the most expensive _comedy_ ever made, it was and is, surreal. An unconfident and clearly embarrassed George Clooney nasally saying "You're losing your cool, Freeze!" from behind a stiff batman-suit is the height of greatness in my books, but I'd never pay for it.
Come relive BATMAN AND ROBIN with me! by KONG33	Sep 28th, 2002 04:41:02 AM
Remember when Batgirl boogie-boarded on ice? No? Ah, man, it was X-TREME! I think I may have to rent Batman and Robin just to relive the absurdity. How about when they pumped up Bane's muscles from the weakest man in the world? When they saw a need to change into ice-suits to sell toys... or when they fought a neon gang... or when Batgirl tapped into the computer's password to find out a major secret... it all happened. Robin had to use his Bat-skates and use a hockey stick to take out the ice badguys. And someone slid off the tail of a dinosaur in the museum. And a close up on Bat-asscheeks...in black leather. TRAINWRECK. Alicia was hot, though. "Ice to see you!" "The Iceman cometh", "cool as ice!"
Look by FimbulWinter	Sep 28th, 2002 10:30:59 AM
The "Little" details aren't the point but when they are completely thrown out the window it demonstrates a complete lack of respect or knowledge of the source material. I guess my main question is: If a story/character/setting is good enough to warrant being made into a movie in the first place, why does it need to be fundamentally reinvented? Most of the time Hollywood is looking for a roadmap for storytelling and here they have at least some significant guideposts that they just bulldoze over. I'm not sayng that a movie can't or shouldn't be different from a story we've seen or read before - in fact I'm sure most ardent fans would LOVE to see a new story. But the prospect of a large-scale event movie being the equivalent of a one-shot "Elsewords" or "What If?" story sits in the stomach like bad bean dip - that is really it. And also - Batman & Robiun (the movie) is nearly universally HATED because it completely discarded the things that Burton's films did right (not everything, mind you) and embraced all the things that some fools thought people loved in the 60's TV show. How can anyone in their right mind that knows anything about Batman prefer the neon and leather crappy CG version of Gotham in BF and B&R to Anton Furst's work? C'mon! B&R is not a comic book adaptation. It's some person's misinformed take on what they believe a comic book to be. I'm not saying that comics are scripture or something but some of the decisions for these movies are the akin to hiring a plumber to fix bad wiring.
How it should be? by Harryhausen	Dec 28th, 2002 03:40:35 PM
The whole Superman back story should be retold. Start with Krypton's own 'Clone Wars', the subversiveness of Jor-El and, possibly, a neat little dash to New Genesis/Apokolips to see the Highfather and Darkseid exchange sons. Add Lex Luthor's birth, the jettisoning of Kal-el's shuttle and brief nods to 'The Justice Society' and you have a "stonker" of a prologue - as we might say in Scotland. Unknowns should be cast in the lead roles, save perhaps Clint Eastwood as Darkseid, and the stage is set for an epic tale that could cover, easily, Superman's clash with Luthor, his befriending of Batman and then a Darkseid orientated 'Crisis'-like storyline in the third instalment. The titles? Superman I: Last Son of Krypton (With a nod to Paul Dini) Superman II: World's Finest (Featuring JLA battling the Syndicate of Supervillains) Superman III: Apokolips (Nicely top-tails the first episode with Darkseid defeated after an ill-fated conquest of earth - Olsen's Turtle-Boy could appear to honour the way Kirby introduced the New Gods.) There you go Warner Bros, give me a straight three mill and I'll direct all three films back-to-back for you.

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