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ATTACK OF THE RUMBLINGS!! MORIARTY Weighs In On The CLONES Script!!

stuff by Mr_ant	Feb 27th, 2002 10:19:39 AM
nothing you can say, think or do will make attack of the clones a good title
WOOOHOO by brolly	Feb 27th, 2002 10:21:14 AM
bout time!
Banned from the Ranch Episode 2 by Mithrandir98	Feb 27th, 2002 10:24:07 AM
"Moriaritty" Has a Beer and Cheets on little ewok clones... George is never going to let anyone from this site in the ranch ever again.
Baby Fett drinks a beer and cheets on his Geonosian by derubermax	Feb 27th, 2002 10:28:56 AM
Frist mutha fuckers. Yes, that's really all I have to say.
It doesnt Matter how....... by stuart_bannerman	Feb 27th, 2002 10:45:08 AM
It doesnt matter how much bitching, moaning , and general complaining EVER goes on about a Star Wars movie. Be it a prequel, sequel or even a trailer. Every single person who bitches, moans or even comments about a Star Wars Movie from "Uncle George" will still be handing over there ticket money and having a small smile on there face when John Williams fanfare hits the ears. And i for one remember a phrase that Uncle George used. "it will all make sense once the trilogies are finished" I reserve judgement until 2005.
You mean EP2 is not called "The Seventh Tower"??? by realfan-3	Feb 27th, 2002 11:00:15 AM
Heh heh, nice deletion of that little mistake from your "Banned from the Ranch" article, McWeeny. If you all haven't figured it out by now, this is vintage Moriarty: cream your jeans over an upcoming flick, then bash it as soon as it comes out because it isn't what YOU envisioned, then a year later when you realize what spewing hated-filled venom does to you (Banned from the Ranch, public rebuke by Ebert, etc. etc. etc.) you try to kiss ass to make up for it and get your anticipation skyhigh again for the sequel. Just report on the fucking movies for fucks sake and don't expect every movie to make you euphoric, that's what sex is for, and no not with your hand. Next we'll be hearing about how much of a genius Tarsem Singh is, and how The Cell is the greatest film ever made, and Mori never REALLY meant that it was a bad movie in his original review and he never REALLY advocated public torture for Singh.
"I've got a good feeling about this...." by Gabba-UK	Feb 27th, 2002 11:00:20 AM
This has cheered me up a bit after hearing that Spike Milligan has just died. I like many others will stand up and say I liked TPM, so sue me! It had its problems of course but then nothing is perfect. I think that George does listen to the fans and I agree with Moriarty in so much that I think Lucas forgot to like his creation with TPM. But from what the actors have said including George's biggest critic, Ewan McGregor, this film is gonna as much fun to watch as it was to make. I look forward to this movie not because can't be worst than TPM but because I believe it will be a blast from beginning to end.
Hey A_Big_Jackass, you're a big jackass by twan_deeth_ree	Feb 27th, 2002 11:03:03 AM
Do you not understand the point of this site at all? We WANT the inside scoop, that's why we come here. Jackass.
Geeked Out... by HotOne	Feb 27th, 2002 11:03:44 AM
This may be the most geeked out thing I've ever heard..."On that long drive up the coast, he put the soundtracks for the first three STAR WARS films into the truck's CD changer and I read the entire script out loud."...Geez, I love you guys, but get a life, kiss a girl, go get laid or something!
O Mercy by Otto Parts	Feb 27th, 2002 11:18:12 AM
This sounds fantastic!!!! I am gonna find it SOOOOOOO hard not to read the spoilers. Can you believe that some people must have already WATCHED this movie??
Peter Jackson was smart ... by riskebiz	Feb 27th, 2002 11:31:41 AM
Peter Jackson filmed the 3 Lord of the Rings simultaniously. Very smart ... especially considering the age of some of his actors. George Lucas, in my opinion, is rolling the dice with the lethargic pace he is producing his 3 prequels. Ian McDiarmand is not getting any younger and James Earl Jones is an out of shape, elder man. I sure hope that George isn't expecting Christopher Lee back for the 3rd movie either. I'm not saying that it's likely that old age is going to catch up with these actors before the final film, but at least 5 years before the 3rd film hits the theatres is pushing it. I sure hope George has contingency plans. I hate pointing it out. Personally, I hope those guys live to an old age, but recent events show that you can't take things for granted.
There's nothing new in Moriarty's spoilers really. by Batutta	Feb 27th, 2002 11:32:35 AM
If you've read all the previous spoilers, go ahead and read his. I hope for the best with this movie, although I think lucas has one MASSIVE disadvantage. We know for a fact that almost every single important character except Mace Windu lives through this movie, because they're all around for the next trilogy. And we know Amidala lives until at least the end of the next movie, because Leia has memories of her. In an action-adventure, knowing your leads will make it through without dying is a pretty big liability. If George can't completely involve us in the dramatic lives of these characters (which I'm not counting on) at best it will be a fun romp with little suspense.
Finally! by CrapHole	Feb 27th, 2002 11:37:56 AM
Now I gotta read it.
Oooo, interesting! by BlueGecko	Feb 27th, 2002 11:41:42 AM
I'm actually starting to feel a little excited for this movie, thanks Mori! I've been deliberately suppressing my expectations (hey, if they're very low, they are sure to be surpassed, yes?) and it's cool that there's all this LOTR and Oscars and such to distract us in the meanwhile until May - AOTC, Spidey, The Others on DVD... I know there's more, but I can't recall right now. Glad to read that someone else also appreciates the Palpatine story in TPM, I thought that was one of the few strong points of that movie. Damn, Ian McDiarmid is AWESOME! I'm also looking forward to Obi-Wan kicking some ass this time around.
Spoilers by The Mauve Frog	Feb 27th, 2002 11:44:54 AM
I love spoilers. I eat drink and breathe them. I don't want to waste my money on movies that blow. I love that slow build-up to a movie when more and more information gets released until I can't stand waiting for the movie, then go,wait in line and love every minute. Spoilers do have their drawbacks. It took me four showings of LOTR to even begin having an objective opinion. After the first trailer, I saw/read/knew nothing about EP I. I even avoided every single TV special. When I finally saw it, I was disapointed, but still loved the movie. I didn't even know who was cast for what, so the whole Amidala-Padme thing surprised me. I'm reading everything online for EPI, and nothing for EP III. As much as I wnat to know, You can't beat the feeling of seeing a movie cold: no trailors, no script reviews, no cast lists, nothing. All I have to say is this. Either get every bit of info you can, or avoid everything about the movie. You cannot while about seeing spoilers with no warnings. If don't want to know, don't come here, don't click on a movie you want fresh. Take sides and stick to them. If the movie is good enough, they'll be archives of spoilers and talkbacks. We'll be able to post about the movie forever. And if the movie sucks, you didn't waste any time reading spoilers
"Because we're.... JEDI KNIGHTS in these.... JEDI DAYS!" by IAmLegolas	Feb 27th, 2002 11:50:56 AM
http://download.theforce.net/v ideo/SNL-ep2-nsync.rm
with apologies to moriarity by conalcochran	Feb 27th, 2002 12:04:02 PM
No offense, Moriarity. You are a heck of a writer (probably the best on the staff). You seem like an intelligent and fun person. You bring no baggage to movies. You seem to love what you do..............but (and you knew it was coming) with your ever word of praise, with your every well-written analysis of this screenplay, we're reminded of your infamous review for Phantom Menace. I know I'm hardly breaking ground by bringing this up. I want to believe you. I really do. I try and try and try to believe you, and when I'm done trying I try some more....but when all is done and said, it all gets back to that review. Everybody has a different take on Phantom Menace. As for me, it was one of the most dissapointing movies ever made, and it all started at - and this is the important part - that wretched script Lucas shat out. And that's the main reason why I cannot listen to you here. With your every word of praise, there's that nagging voice in the back of my head saying...."he loved the script for the last one." Bottom line - you sounded just as excited for the last one as your are for this one......and that might not be a good thing. Who knows, it might actually be good. But as far as Star Wars movies are concerned, your barometer seems pretty far off. I'll believe it when I see it. But you're still a good writer, though. I'll believe you any day of the week.....as long as it doesn't involve star wars.
Well.... by MrCere	Feb 27th, 2002 12:10:51 PM
Just like I did with TPM, I shall be in line early and often and try to have fun watching a movie. Could I hope for anything more? Yes, this gives me a new hope. Still, a good script is simply a place to jump off. Funny how Moriarty couldn't imagine another title but E. McGregor laughed OUT LOUD when he was told the title for the first time. Makes me think our buddy might be a little bit....optimistic. Still, I will have fun at the cinema. A movie with more depth than that will be a bonus!
A comment on script review... by JoeLove	Feb 27th, 2002 12:12:10 PM
I just saw the best film of 2001 last night, Mulholland Drive, for the first time. WOW. If that third act somehow made any sense, Mul. Dr. could've been a mega hit! 'Course making sense has no bearing on a film like that. Anyhow, you remember when Betty & Rita are reading the script in the apartment? It sounds like a soap opera or bad mystery novel right? Then she goes to the audition and completely reverses the way the audience thought the script would be played, going off in a COMPLETE 180. This is how I see script review. You read a script Moriarty, and its kudos, kudos, kudos. Come time to see the movie and we're out here going: "Huh? That wasn't what I expected." I think script review is useful in getting a basic knowledge of how the story will move along, but you cannot one iota prejudge a film based on the script. I'll stay away from the spoilers and keep a cynical stance on AOTC. Maybe I'll be surprised, maybe not. I just want Laura Elena Herring in my bed when I wake up in the morning.
Hey, Conalcochran: by LeeScoresby	Feb 27th, 2002 12:13:11 PM
Of course Moriarty's barometer is off. He's not reporting straight FACTS to you; he's reporting his emotional (and intellectual) responses to the material he has seen. Seeing as everyone has a different opinion of what makes a film good, bad, or indifferent, do you really expect his opinions to line up with yours? Especially when it comes to a movie which has SHARPLY divided the Star Wars population? So he liked TPM as a script. So he still likes it as a film. So what? It's his opinion. He posts it here because he loves film and wants to share his feelings on what he experiences.
Jake Loyd by Kort Villikon	Feb 27th, 2002 12:37:46 PM
I didn't find him so bad. Hell he was better that Harrison Ford as Solo in Ep 4
Great review, Moriarty by Kikstad	Feb 27th, 2002 12:45:03 PM
Long live the Jedi. Can't wait for May!
spoilers by twan_deeth_ree	Feb 27th, 2002 12:45:18 PM
I read some, I avoid others. With something like EpII, I read them all because we all know the basic plot of the story (anakin turns to the dark side) and the spoilers will only get me more excited to see it. Bottom line: I don't think anyone would ever bother posting spoilers if people weren't interested. Alcohol isn't good for people either, but it sure as hell doesn't stop them from drinking it.
I am excited about this, I really am by Silver_Joo	Feb 27th, 2002 12:46:19 PM
I did not smile once through LOTR, for some reason I disliked that film. Star Wars, no matter how poor, still has the power to make me smile - C-3P0 springing to life in Ep 1, the volley of fire heading straight to the heart of the Deathstar, the Millenium Falcon, Han Solo, The Battle of Hoth - there is so much. Everyone is down on Ep 2, at least those I know, but the trailer has impressed me, and I believe in Lucas again. George, I think you just had to get used to your surroundings during Ep 1, it is good to have you settled. Star Wars is back.
Be there with bells on! by Renata	Feb 27th, 2002 12:47:31 PM
I didn't read the whole review, just glanced through it as I'm trying to avoid spoilers and too much hype, etc. For the record, I didn't think Phantom Menace was all that bad. It was better than Return of the Jedi. I agree that there was far too much exposition and Jar Jar Binks and Jake Lloyd were irritants. But not being a fan of CGI films (see LOTR, The Mummy, Final Fantasy, etc.) I was astounded how perfectly and organically everything blended into a whole. And there were a pair of awesome action scenes, notably the final duel a trois with the Jedis. I think most of the people who reacted so negatively to it were those who were turned off by the hype or, when they finally saw the movie, realized it was just that...a movie. It didn't change their lives the way Star Wars did. What could? Innocence is gone, folks. Even children are more cynical at an earlier age these days. We live in a sadly accelerated age where nothing is allowed to stand still, and whatever does is considered backwards. Although I was just a lad in 1977, I remember how my world was at a complete pause that summer as I absorbed all things Jedi and droids. Today, kids have Harry Potter and Playstation 2. They have comic books which celebrate pessimissm over awe and wonder. Escapism at any length longer than two hours is no longer an option after 9/11. If there still is a cultural value in the Star Wars universe, maybe it's that, for those two hours, we can put our lives on pause, we can forget about the bills, the expectations, the stress, the pressures, and indulge again in a world where good and evil still fight it out with one clear winner.
JoeLove by MrCere	Feb 27th, 2002 12:59:51 PM
Like you, I REALLY enjoyed most of Mullholland Drive. Unlike you, I really can't fathom how a movie is not supposed to make sense. For me the whole must hold together in some form. Your point about the script not being the finished product, as illustrated in Mullholland is excellent. As for spoilers, the whole experience of a film, instead of being crammed into 2 hours is now a many-months process. It might dilute the fun a bit, but it makes it much longer. For some, that might be a good trade.
MrCere by JoeLove	Feb 27th, 2002 01:16:50 PM
thanks for the props, homes. That scene perfectly illustrates that without actors (giving STEAMING performances just DRIPPING with sex) and directors ("don't commit until it's real..." sounds corny, but when she put his hand on her ass, it was goddamn REAL), a script can be read 100 ways till Sunday and can be awful each time. But when it's projected, that 101st reading becomes magic. That is the way Star Wars happened, right? Harry Ford: "George, you can write this shit but you sure can't say it." Shows what Han Solo knows. So on the contrary, a script might read as a rockin' good movie but then sizzuck on the scrizzeen. We'll just have to wait n see, eh? Lastly, I nominate Naomi Watts and Laura Elena Harring for the hottest girl/girl scene in ALL OF FILMED ENTERTAINMENT!
>>>>>>>>EPISODE 2 WILL OWN YOU ALL by Lord Mall	Feb 27th, 2002 01:30:45 PM
http://www.geocities.com/lord_ mall
bwstarwars - OH MY GOD by twan_deeth_ree	Feb 27th, 2002 01:37:18 PM
How fucking long did that take you bwstarwars? Time to come out of the basement and visit the Outside People. We're nice, really we are. Also, check this out: http://www.theonion.com/onion3 806/infograph_3806.html .... NTBUSWAB: we need to start using that.
AOTC is it's own animal. by sparticusmaximus	Feb 27th, 2002 01:55:31 PM
Anyone looking at AOTC through "TPM-lenses", should think of this: War!!!!, Jedi army, Clone troopers, Anakin's dark arc, Obi-Wan a major character, vehicles harkening back to the OT design, Christopher fucking Lee, Yoda leading in battle, Mace kicking ass, Jango fucking Fett (played by Jake the Mus), Padme getting sexy, Gunships, DARKNESS, Dark visuals....................... . It's not a "mystery" whether AOTC will just be TPM part 2......AOTC IS IT'S OWN ANIMAL! And don't forget EP3.....THE DARKEST OF THEM ALL.
Don't be so quick to judge or compare by Patch	Feb 27th, 2002 02:13:28 PM
I love star wars, can't help but feel a little dissappointed with TPM (but still enjoy it) and really think that from what I can tell, AOTC is going to make all the star wars haters have to change their tune. We didn't know what we were getting into and our expectations dictated a lot of our reactions to TPM. But anyone who knows a bit about AOTC knows it seems a bit more like what we were expecting from a star wars prequel after all those years: Action, great characters, and that little bit of geekness you get in seeing someone in boba fett armor or sam jackson with a lightsaber. It may not change the earths axis, but I predict that AOTC ushers star wars excitement back in, proper!
The problem with Moriarty's script reviews... by Anti-fanboy	Feb 27th, 2002 02:22:28 PM
It's not that they're too subjective, but that he brings too much to what he reads. He's got a great imagination for great film imagery and performances, and I think, as he reads a script, his imagination embellishes the hell out of it. Then again, I doubt I'm saying anything he doesn't know. The problem with the Star Wars scripts, as most know, is that GL isn't good at getting natural performances from his actors. The actors that have come off less stiff in some of his movies are, I think, very natural performers by nature (heh); they don't need the personal, attentive directing other actors need to relax into the scene. So those scenes that read great to people like Moriarty, don't necessarily translate as great moments on screen. It sounds like the action is there, but I just want to care more about the characters this time, and better directing/acting would help a lot.
Banning Moriarty but letting Harry in is pretty fishy by abcdefz1	Feb 27th, 2002 02:51:55 PM
....because isn't it Harry's web site, and shouldn't the buck stop there? Not that I want anyone banned, so to speak, but ethics are -- or should be -- ethics, and if you're going to hold someone accountable, be even-handed about it.
sheesh LeeScoresby by conalcochran	Feb 27th, 2002 02:52:06 PM
If only you respected my opinion as much as you ask me to respect Harry's. But anyways....sorry...didn't mean to annoy you or anybody else. Just trying to show why some of us might be weary of this review. It's kinda the flipside of crying wolf - he proclaimed the phantom menace script to be great, so those of us who felt burned are weary when he proclaims this to be just as good. That's all. It very well might be good. Who knows? I just hope he's not doing everybody a disservice by getting our hopes up for another film that will dissapoint just as many people as it thrills. But like I said, nothing personal I respect everybody's opinion.......just as long as you didn't like Freddy Got Fingered.
sounds promising.. by Dragonfire	Feb 27th, 2002 02:54:55 PM
I think the best thing is to not expect another 'Empire strikes back' but rather something between TPM and ANH. Best way to avoid disappointment. BTW, I notice Renata took another jab at LOTR. I'm not trying to start any sort of LOTR vs SW conflict all over again but frankly I find the fact that he thinks the ep1 effects blended with the story to be laughable.
If Lucas isnt a racist, he sure looks like it by TheMatarife	Feb 27th, 2002 03:06:41 PM
He obviously should have realized that JarJar would be viewed as a blackface Uncle Tom figure, and the toydarian shop keepers would be viewed as slams against italians. I can't imagine it any other way. He might have as well named jarjar aunt jarjar mima or uncle jarjar or black sambojar. They really look and act like racial stereotypes. You can't look at friggin Watto and say that he is not a total slam on italians. It is posible he did it by accident, or as a kind of tribute to ethnic groups, but it doesn't work out that way.
sigh.................sigh... .................sigh by drjones	Feb 27th, 2002 03:27:31 PM

Seems to me that by giving the script a good review Moriarty' by superhero	Feb 27th, 2002 03:32:45 PM
As opposed to not reviewing it at all. By giving it a good review could Moriarty be trying to get back into Lucas's good graces? I mean, in the beginning of his review he goes on about how he's DYING to be accepted by Lucas and be let on the Ranch once again and THEN he gives the script a glowing review. Conflict of interests? I think so... If you gave the Episode I script a good review Moriarty then this one is going to be horrible as well. If you couldn't just see what was wrong with JUST THE DIALOGUE of Ep. One then you need to go back and take another writing class. Usually I like your stuff Moriarty but I think your hangin' on the edge of credibility with this one boyo..
Fooled again? by Darth Chode	Feb 27th, 2002 03:36:32 PM
I didn't like TPM. In fact, I disliked it with the kind of intensity one only experiences upon opening up a brightly wrapped present on Christmas morning to discover multiple pairs of sweat socks. HOWEVER, after reading Moriarty's review of the AOTC script--despite the fact that I should know better than to get my hopes up again--an ember of hope began to glow in my soul. Until, that is, I went back and clicked on Moriarty's "Episode I script review." Sorry, Charlie, but you're not getting this Star Wars fan all worked up into a lather again. Here are just a few snippets of what Moriarty had to say about TPM way back before its release: 1). On Lucas: "The time off has done something unexpected to Lucas as a storyteller -- it made him better." 2). More on Lucas: "I hope my words here rekindle your flagging faith in the film. Most of all, though, I hope my words here reach the eyes of George Lucas so I can be among the first to tell him, from the bottom of my heart ... nice job." 3). On Jar Jar: "I am delighted to report that Jar Jar not only works, but that the Gungans are, as a whole, a welcome addition to the mythology of the STAR WARS universe." 4). More on Jar Jar: "He may be a sidekick, but here
And can somebody ... by Darth Chode	Feb 27th, 2002 03:43:11 PM
... please tell "bwstarwars" that no one wants to read his 2,500 word essays on ANYTHING. Jesus, dude, I can't care if they rhyme. And I thought my last post was too long.
censorship by PUNY HUMANS	Feb 27th, 2002 03:44:58 PM
Why were my negative comments of Star Wars just deleted Harry? You allow profanity and racist comments, but i can't give my opinion on those unwatchable movies? Freedom of speech, but only speech you agree with I guess.
RE: the Matarife, on Watto being a slam on Italians. by Vegas	Feb 27th, 2002 03:53:20 PM
I have also heard that Watto is a slam on Arabs and on Jews. My question is this: how can he be a slam on ANYONE if no one can agree what ethnicity he is supposed to represent? To mine own eyes, and this is just me, Watto isn't Italian, Arabic, OR Jewish...HE'S A FUCKING ALIEN!!! All this "Star Wars has racist aliens" shit is tired, because no one can truly back it up. Jar Jar is racist because he sounds black? Could that be because the guy who did his voice WAS black? Jar Jar isn't Jamaican, or African, or Aborigine, or anything else on earth. HE'S A FUCKING AMPHIBIAN!!! For fucks sake people, with terrorism, war, economic downturn, and rampant pollution ravaging our homes, bitching about the racial slurs of amphibians in a family sci-fi movie makes you sound pathetic AND sad.
There were two unquestionably great things in THE PHANTOM MENACE by Cash Bailey	Feb 27th, 2002 04:04:12 PM
The opening crawl and the end credits with THAT music. I'm putting my neck onto the block and openly admitting that I'm one of those people that has fallen madly in love with LORD OF THE RINGS and has lost faith in STAR WARS - or, more precisely, George Lucas's plans for his beloved phenomenon. But not for a second do I think that the two had anything to do with each other. I haven't grabbed onto LOTR to compensate for my dissapointment in TPM or anything as shallow and ridiculous as that. FELLOWSHIP simply has surpassed the way I EVER felt about STAR WARS purely on it's own merits. That said, as much as is may hurt to admit to anyone who grew up entranced by the former Holy Trilogy (Ewoks and all), the unavoidable fact is that FELLOWSHIP simply has everything that STAR WARS lacked, and has finally revealed it's deficiencies: commited, passionate performances from a perfect cast working at the top of their considerable skills; strong, beautifully written dialogue; dense, layered plotting that only gets more rewarding with each viewing; wonder and absolute belief at what I was seeing on screen in terms of design and effects (Gollum!!!); lots of extraordinary action and fantastic violence (can't go past that); an often subtle, devastatingly emotional score by Shore (Williams blares and blusters with the best of them, but he's treading water). I've no doubt that Lucas has set out to vastly improve the next chapters in the story, but the question still stands about whether he is actually capable of it. Let's just wait and see what he does to the next Indy movie. And for Christ's sake, get Lawrence Kasdan on the phone. "My, Ani, how you've grown," my ass.
Conalcochran again by LeeScoresby	Feb 27th, 2002 04:22:23 PM
That wasn't intended as a slam towards you, my friend. What I was trying to say is that the experience of reading any script is subjective. As is the viewing of film (This explains the people who didn't like LOTR. Kind of.). My point was only to say don't let anyone except yourself get you hyped for this film. Any information we recieve regarding this movie is colored by the people experiencing it first hand. Just enjoy it for what it is: lots of speculation and some facts, designed to increase your appetite, not shrink your stomach. Sorry if it came off harsh.
re: Vegas by dp4m	Feb 27th, 2002 05:35:07 PM
Amen, brother. I also wondered how if three separate ethnic groups claimed "discrimination," how discriminating it could possibly be...
Here's the problem... by jazzuk	Feb 27th, 2002 05:38:34 PM
Ok, so we all know that the TPM trailers were uber-cool and the movie sucked. But Prof Moriary, I have to take issue with some things you said. You say you _still_ think that the only problem with TPM was in the execution of a script that had potential. That the only thing it needed was to be done better, but that the script itself was pukka. And on that basis you hope, indeed it would seem "expect", AOTC to be able to deliver on the script you have read and "do it right" this time. Problem: The script you read is not the script they are shooting. Sure, it's about 80%, maybe even as much as 90%, the real deal, but things change. The whole midichlorian bullshit in TPM was added _months_ after principal photography, and for many people that one thing is what screws TPM up beyond redemption. Cardboard cut-out villains, cheesy dialogue, all these things can be suffered in the name of art, but needless and internally inconsistent exposition that serves no narrative purpose and which tears apart the fundamental and mythic fabric of a piece? I think not. What horrors will George Lucre-arse come up with to undermine AOTC I wonder. Whatever they turn out to be, the chances are they aren't in that script you read.
If AOTC is twice as good as ROTJ and three times as good as TPM. by Yojimbo Jones	Feb 27th, 2002 06:26:30 PM
...that'll mean it's about as "good" as a 2-star movie. Let's face it: Star Wars "the franchise" has sucked for the past 20 years. What makes anybody think it'll change now...? And really, who aside from Jar Jar and George Lucas' bank-manager even cares any more? TPM was the biggest disappointment in the history of hype. And no matter how good AOTC might be (here's a clue: it won't be), it still won't remove the stink that is ROTJ and TPM. Thank god for Peter Jackson sigh.
AHHHHH I can't take it!!! by Bockopolis	Feb 27th, 2002 07:11:27 PM
Lets settle this fucking thing right now. Peter Jackson took a book that was incredibly detailed (they pracitcally direct themsleved) and put it on screen. Was LOTR good? Yes, but is Peter Jackson a god? NO. How about he creates his own world, other than the one with the fucked up muppets. Georgie boy created his own universe that is as detailed as LOTR AND put it on the screen. Without SW, Peter Jackson would just be another fat bastard. AOTC is gonna be the shit because Georgie has more talent in his fucking beard than Jackson has. Indiana Jones? Star Wars? American Grafitti? THX-1138? Yeah, GL sucks. Go watch PJ's other great works. The Frighteners? Please. Take your head out of his ass for a second to realize who the man is. George Lucas.
yup by Darth Melkor	Feb 27th, 2002 07:16:54 PM
Always has to be that one bad apple, in this case it's evident. I like Peter Jackson, and enjoyed LOTR, but come on, what has he done other than LOTR? Don't say "well... Dead Alive was the goriest movie ever." Doesn't exactly take brains to make a movie gory, just look at the Toxic Avengar. I'll put PJ on the same level as GL when he creates his own $5 billion corporation, creates two of the biggest and most beloved franchises of all time (SW being THE biggest of all time), wins a Thalberg award, revolutionizes digital media, and changes the way movies are made.
Bockopolis, don't be a moron! by minderbinder	Feb 27th, 2002 07:37:14 PM
"Peter Jackson took a book that was incredibly detailed (they pracitcally direct themsleved)" So movies based on books "make themselves"? So how come we don't see a FotR or a Godfather or a Gone with the Wind every year?? Idiot.
I wanna believe too, Mo . . . by ol' painless	Feb 27th, 2002 07:37:34 PM
So come the release date, I'll be there in the aisle screaming like a 14-year old girl on the ED SULLIVAN SHOW. Shit, I'll even be dressed like a 14-year old girl. So if you want to avoid seeing a 30-year old man dressed and screaming like a 14-year old girl on the ED SULLIVAN SHOW, stay out of New Zealand. I somehow get the feeling Lucas might have learnt his lessons from EP1, and we are in for a real hum-dinger with EP2. Now if you'll excuse me, I gotta pick out a dress . . .
Bite me minderbender by Bockopolis	Feb 27th, 2002 07:45:59 PM
Come on, man. Its like I said, PJ did a good job on LOTR, but his world was created for him by JRR Tolkein. Did PJ do a good job? Yes, he did. Is he on par with GL? Fuck no. Like I said GL has created some of the most beloved movies of all time. Movies he CREATED from nothing. GL is the most successful director of all time. PJ made three movies based on great books. Stop kissing this man's ass.
I dont know what the fuck to put here by Bockopolis	Feb 27th, 2002 08:15:20 PM
I think making the original Star Wars was MUCH harder than LOTR. In 1977, Gl had to make his own effects co., make up the effects, do all of this on a shoe-string budget. Sure PJ had to film all three at once, but New Line granted his every wish and need. GL had to scrape for every dollar from 20th Century Fox.
You've restored my faith, Moriarty by Hardyboy	Feb 27th, 2002 08:15:24 PM
Time was, the only summer film I was truly looking forward to was "Spider-Man," but your review has whetted my appetite and made me believe that AOTC may in fact be the film I hoped and prayed TPM would be. Just so long as there's more Sam Jackson and less Jar-Jar, I'll be happy.
Original? Lucas? Gimme a break. by jazzuk	Feb 27th, 2002 08:15:52 PM
"In 1977, George Lucas created, from his own imagination, an amazing place in a galaxy far, far away". His own imagination? I take it then that you have not actually seen the Star Wars films. Just about every thing in those films from characters, through to story elements and plot is lifted from one source or another, much of it visual. GL was free to plagiarise and reform things in his own way to deliver what he wanted. PJ on the other hand was contending with _THE_ most popular, _THE_ most widely read novel of the 20th Century, a source for which there was no cinematic reference, and for which every one of those millions of readers had an intensely personal perspective. The fact that he not only has won plaudits from the most critical and skeptical of JRR Tolkiens fans, but that he managed this whilst also creating a film that was enjoyed and respected by those coming to the material cold, with no headline stars, a vast amount of story to tell in a short time, and a non-ending (for the first film), is an achievement that outstrips George Lucas' contribution to cinema by many leagues. Ultimately GL has contributed a great deal of technology to the medium, and yes, without that technology LOTR could not have been made (not yet at least) but if you want story, character.... dammit - if you want a film you can enjoy without having to make excuses for it, every time you sit down to suffer it ("it's a kids movie", "it has to establish a lot of background", "bitch-jar-moan-jar-whinge-mau l-whine"), then PJ is your man (or one of them).
Lord the Rings by peblopeet	Feb 27th, 2002 09:26:50 PM
Comparing Star Wars with Lord of the Rings? Not to be a dick, but didn't anyone notice that Lord of the Rings was nothing more than a bloated Smokey and the Bandit with special effects. Instead of Burt Reynolds carrying Coors to the east coast, you have a bunch of dwarves carrying a ring to some volcano. The only real difference is that Smokey and Bandit is actually a watchable movie instead of the nearly unending chase scene and nothing more than a promo for the sequel that is Lord of the Rings.
"bite me": how do you respond to a brilliant argument like that? by minderbinder	Feb 27th, 2002 09:34:22 PM
"Like I said GL has created some of the most beloved movies of all time." A couple. And a couple stinkers. "GL is the most successful director of all time." "Stop kissing this man's ass." Congrats, those last two statements earn you the hypocrite of the day award! Thanks for the laugh.
Once more into the breach by Billy Talent	Feb 27th, 2002 09:36:03 PM
It's 'Star Wars'! I want to see it! Now! I want it to wash away the bad taste 'LotR' left me with! I want a 'fun' film that's actually FUN! Yeah, I'm prepared for the worst. Lucas is long past half way to crazy. But he can still put together a coherent action sequence, he has enormous visual and technical acuity and when the man kicks ass he kicks ass in so many ways it's not even funny (see 'A New Hope', 'The Empire Strikes Back', 'Raiders of the Lost Ark', and the better parts of 'Return of the Jedi', 'Temple of Doom', 'The Last Crusade' and 'The Phantom Menace'.) Any number of directors could have made 'Lord of the Rings' as well as or better than Jackson did. Lucas is among the great pioneering film makers of the last thirty years. However we'll let that go, and in the event we're disappointed by both 'The Two Towers' and 'Attack of the Clones', neither of which is likely to feature foul language or explicit sex, there are always grown-up movies.
and peptopete, thankx for pointing that out. by minderbinder	Feb 27th, 2002 09:37:43 PM
Now I realize that I'm an idiot and should have hated FotR like all the smart folk. Bet the academy will feel stupid once they realize they gave 13 nominations to a Smokey and the Bandit ripoff...I'd suggest contacting Jack Valenti ASAP.
Me nuts are starting to pull right now by Stimpson J Cat	Feb 27th, 2002 09:40:27 PM
this movie is going to blow,this movie is goingn to blow,jarjar is still in it ,the movie is going to blow....IM NOT SEEING IT IM NOTsEEING IT!!!!!!
Thanks for being civilized, Miami by Bockopolis	Feb 27th, 2002 09:42:19 PM
Listen, I dont want to demean the job PJ did on LOTR, I liked the movie. I think that he. like Lucas knew what it took to get a good movie out of the material he had. They BOTH went to the last studio they could before they got the greenlight. What bothers me is all these people here bashing Lucas while praising PJ. I don't understand how you could hate one, yet love the other. I think PJ will become the next Lucas. LOTR is his SW. And like SW, PJ established some of his own companies (WETA for ex.) My point is, Lucas came first and blazed the trail PJ(and many others) have walked as filmmakers. I don't understand how one could be so loathed, yet the other is lauded for copying him.
Hey, minderbender by Bockopolis	Feb 27th, 2002 09:49:17 PM
If you wan to get into a name-calling contest, fine I dont give a fuck. But I'll remain civil in this post.["Like I said GL has created some of the most beloved movies of all time." A couple. And a couple stinkers]. So you agree with me? Good. ["GL is the most successful director of all time." "Stop kissing this man's ass."] Hmm, what other director has made more money than GL? None that I can think of, hence he is the most successful. [Congrats, those last two statements earn you the hypocrite of the day award! Thanks for the laugh] No problem I'm here any time.
Do Not Rush To Judgement by jollydwarf	Feb 27th, 2002 09:56:46 PM
First of all, is it true that Yoda's half-brother is to be played by Beetlejuice from the Howard Stern show? Okay, now that the IMPORTANT stuff's outta the way, no matter how good the script may be (and personal feelings towards/against Moriarty aside, I sense that it will be a vast improvement), the delivery has to be there. From what I saw in the trailers, Natalie seems as wooden as ever ("An' she makes me wooden, ha ha!"--save it), and lines like "Someday (grimace), I will be the most powerful...Jedi...EVER!" and the "Well, I should!" retort are classic 'impossible-to-deliver-con vincingly' Star Wars YCTTSGBYCSI ("You can type this shit, George, but you can't say it"-Ford)dialogue. It's going to be equally difficult to Ep I when it comes to judging this film on its own merits, but for different reasons. One, a "good" film will look "great" when compared to TPM, which many are STILL smarting from. Two, like it or not, the Matrix and Tolkien trilogies are rivaling the hype for most people, so Star Wars is not the only game in town, and if you ask a lot of people (myself included), from a pure quality standpoint, it's now the bronze medalist. Third, it will not be the first "event" film of the summer season. For all intents and purposes, that distinction goes to "Spiderman" (personally, I'm more pumped for "Blade II" than Spider-man, with or without the hyphen. Of course I love U2, but I think OutKast in a fair world gets the Grammy nod, of the actual nominees). Wow, I'm rambling. Anyways, based on the latest 'Making Of' video at starwars.com, it seems that the "good stuff" will be plentiful. But I want the spirit that created these endless talkbacks in the first place. The "We would be honored if you would join us" betrayals. The bickering of 3PO and R2. The grungy menace of nightclubs. The tiny brilliant emotive touches, like Admiral Ackbar's sigh when the Super Destroyer goes down. And AT-ATs would be nice. But really, I want it to all eventually make sense. And to do this, the next two movies need to explain the Sith. Sure, they're evil and they've been in hiding, but how did Palpatine get into this? Is it simple meglomania? Is it, as Maul put it, "revenge"? And what does Agent Smith have to do with this...oops. I just don't think it's good storytelling to not give your main villian of SIX movies an articulated motivation. Just 'cause we might piece it together from supplemental stuff, doesn't mean Today's Moviegoer knows. Cross those fingers.
hey! by Darth Melkor	Feb 27th, 2002 10:03:03 PM
Don't rip on Truman Capote... I'm his cousin... seriously. I think Lucas and Jackson both had a hard time.. Jackson had more at his disposal but did take on the biggest film project ever with millions of book lovers watching his every move. Lucas had to scrape pennies from the dirt to fund his little sci fi epic that would go on to create a $5 billion Empire. Both these men have done big things and made craploads of money and fans doing it. Same as Spielberg and Howard and Raimi and Wachowski and Coen and Scorcese and Coppola and Cameron and Shyamalan and Farrely and Lee and Singleton and so on and so on.
bock, make up your mind by minderbinder	Feb 27th, 2002 10:03:46 PM
"I dont want to demean the job PJ did on LOTR" Oh? So that's why you posted: "Without SW, Peter Jackson would just be another fat bastard...Georgie has more talent in his fucking beard than Jackson has." And you wonder why you get hostile responses? "Hmm, what other director has made more money than GL? None that I can think of, hence he is the most successful." Ah, who cares about artistic achievement? Money=success.
by Bockopolis	Feb 27th, 2002 10:20:18 PM
Hmm thats why in the same post I said:"Was LOTR good? Yes, but is Peter Jackson a god? NO. " And without SW, you wouldn't have a LOTR trilogy(movies), hence PJ would be another fat bastard. And most talkbackers here say that George sucks, or George is a talentless fuck, while praising PJ as an innovator. I will put PJ on the same level as Lucas when he does more than LOTR. There is more to Lucas than SW. Indiana Jones, American Graffiti, ILM, THX, THX-1138, etc.
Your enthusiasm is contagious Mori by nanch	Feb 27th, 2002 10:30:25 PM
And the script review worth waiting for, cheers man
Star Wars Episode 4: A New Hope is, and always will be, the best by a goonie	Feb 27th, 2002 10:38:33 PM
especially "forbidden love." hell, i love "breathing," too. i mean, i trust George enough with the CGI. i've always felt it takes a good, smart director to get good CG work out of the effects company that the studio hires. of course, ILM is responsible for some of the greatest CG work ever (Jurassic Park and T2, for starters) and some of the worst, too (The Mummy Returns). but anyways, i trust George with that. and i enjoyed Phantom Menace. i did. but with Attack of the Clones, i want something more. and if the script is anything like Moriarty describes it, then we're gonna that something more. then we're on the right track. the cast is good, the effects work should be quite wonderful, CG Yoda apparently doesn't suck!, the teasers rule all to hell, and that title... ooooh... love that title.
A few thoughts... by MikeSal222	Feb 27th, 2002 10:48:00 PM
1) AOTC will suck. Not as bad as TPM, but it will still suck. 2) Creating an original universe is a much greater achievement than filming someone else's creation. As much as I think Lucas has become a bloated sellout, his accomplishments still exceed Peter Jackson's by a fair margin. Tolkien created Lord of the Rings. Jackson just decided which bits to cut out, did some rearranging, and shot the movies. Not to take anything away from Jackson, because I honestly thought this trilogy would be a flop, and he proved me wrong, but Lucas created a world, whereas Jackson did not. 3) TTT will be better than AOTC. That's all for now.
buns, too by IHeartBoobs	Feb 27th, 2002 10:57:25 PM
HAY there. I really hope Attack is good as it reads. I did think Phantom was a drag at times, but there were moments where it did live up to the hype. it just bugs me to hear now Phantom SUCKED and how Attack is trying so hard to be awesome. Attack seems like its going in the right direction, but all this talk of how Awesome attack is gonna be scares me a little. Of course itll be good. It just sounds like everyone is trying to convince themselves of something before all evidence is in. Don't get me wrong, I want Attack to be the best movie of all time, next to episode 3, but I think it's a no brainer. So I appreciate the news and faith, but only Lucas and ILM can make this a GREAT film. PS. May 16, i'm calling in sick
I am not going to read the spoliers but..... by MJAYACE	Feb 27th, 2002 11:29:39 PM
How much IS Jar Jar in it? I heard like 10 minutes. You know to be honest I actually liked TPM. The very first time I watched it, everything clicked for me. Yes I admit, I was not impressed with Lloyd or Jar Jar but I also remembered C3PO and R2 were the same kid geared thing in the originals. I mean come on, if YOU were going to design a droid would you make him as annoying as C3PO. Anyway, I think what helped me understand TPM immediately was that I have read all the books. If you just saw the original movies I can understand why TPM might have seemed jumbled. Reading the books beforehand made it cool when things like Coruscant and Palpatine were displayed on screen. So for me I think it will take alot for AOTC to be a dud. Later
PJ vs Lucas by GalvinBaer	Feb 27th, 2002 11:31:26 PM
I have to say that the people that are saying that Lucas created his own universe and all PJ did was take one of the best books of all time do have a point but does these make what PJ did any less of a achievement, HELL NOOOOO!!! Many people considered LOTR to be unfilmable and considering what PJ and crew had to do to even get these films made is an achievement in its self, even on a par with the struggles Lucas had in bringing SW to life. Whether PJ produces another film as brilliant FOTR and potentially TTT and ROTK which if FOTR is any indication should be the best two films of the series (as is the case with the books), at this point is irrelevant particularly with PJ not even wanting to take on a project as big as LOTR again. IMHO what ever PJ and crew do after LOTR is really up to them and in there case I guess you can say the sky is the limit.
wow. do folks really believe that movies based on books "practi by minderbinder	Feb 28th, 2002 12:04:23 AM
"Tolkien created Lord of the Rings. Jackson just decided which bits to cut out, did some rearranging, and shot the movies." Yeah, not much work there...except for the "SHOT THE MOVIES" part. Do some of you have NO conception of how movies are actually MADE? If this is so easy, why are there so many bad movie adaptations of good books? "Any number of directors could have made 'Lord of the Rings' as well as or better than Jackson did." But they didn't. (the film rights for LotR have been available since 1970) Coulda shoulda woulda. You could say the same thing about George and TPM and it would be just as valid/ridiculous. "Lucas created a world, whereas Jackson did not." So? Who cares how many creatures and planets you think up if you throw them in a movie with boring plot, weak acting and weak dialogue?
Books by Darth Melkor	Feb 28th, 2002 12:22:12 AM
Originally wasn't PJ asked to make just one movie out of LOTR? That is ridiculous because FOTR is 3 hours long even with half the book missing. Imagine condensing all three into one movie.
PJ by MikeSal222	Feb 28th, 2002 12:23:52 AM
But the point is that Lucas had to come up with a plot, and with original dialogue. PJ had plot and dialogue handed to him on a silver platter by Tolkien. And as for acting, well, I don't think it was so hot in FOTR, but even if you do, Jackson can't really take credit for the acting. As I said, I'm not trying to take anything away from Jackson, but if the plot, dialogue, etc. is better in FOTR than in TPM (and of course it is), the credit goes to Tolkien, not PJ.
I'm giving AOTC a fair shot but Moriarty lost my trust long by JMYoda	Feb 28th, 2002 12:26:38 AM
I mean, after reading the script for TPM he said it was fantastic and could go toe-to-toe with 'Empire'. Now he claims Lucas ruined the script when he filmed it with Jake Lloyd, bad acting too much CGI etc. I say that's bullshit. Sure those things added to the movie's suck content but the screenplay was fundamentally flawed from the get-go. The dialogue was terrible, the film was structured badly. I've gone over all my huge problems with TPM and 90% of them go back to the script. First off Qui-Gon is the only character who is fleshed out. Then there's the fact that Qui-Gon's death comes without heroism or meaning. The fact that the only thing riding on the Podrace was Anakin's comfortable life as an indentured servant and a hyperdrive. The fact that there is no logical reason why the Queen suddenly wants to go back to Naboo. Not even waiting to see if Palpy is elected Chancellor and see if he can straighten out the mess. Not to mention that there is NO SUFFERING in the movie that we know of. Then you have all teh Ani and Jar Jar accidents in the final battle. It was just a piece of mediocre fluff to began with that was just made worse by the cartoon characters and bad acting. SO basically my point is I'd trust a script review by Moriarty about as much as I'd trust a drunk chimp to fix my car. After reading Mori's review of TPM back in '99 I went through the roof with excitement and thought the Star Wars magic of old would be back. I was wrong. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. So I say lets just wait for May to roll around and we'll see if AOTC is even 1/10th as good as 'Fellowship of the Ring' or any instalment of the Holy Trilogy.. even 'Jedi'. I think I'm gonna go watch 'Empire' again. sigh
We still have no idea if AotC will be good.... by Jon Snow	Feb 28th, 2002 12:57:19 AM
Script reviews are fine and dandy, but we won't really know if AotC sucks or not until word starts to leak out after the various preview screenings start to occur. I still remember in the days leading up to TPM's release the negative buzz that began to build. Thanks to the mammoth Episode 1 hype machine, I was convinced that TPM would triumph. Turns out, the negative press from the preview screenings was bang on. With AotC, we just have to wait a little longer to see if it is a return to form for the Star Wars franchaise. That script review doesn't tell us if Lucas has managed to get some good performances out of his actors.
The PJ and GL debate by JMYoda	Feb 28th, 2002 01:04:59 AM
Movies based on books do not "make themselves". Most book adaptations are lucky if they're even half as good as the book. According to critics 'Lord of the Rings' has always been considered the unfilmable epic. To make it anywhere near as good as the book was deemed impossible. If 'The Two Towers' and 'Return of the King' equal the quality of 'Fellowship' then Jackson has achieved the seemingly impossible. All Lucas needed to do is make three films in the same tone, style and quality he established in the original trilogy, a much easier task if he had a vision like he did for the Holy Trilogy, which it seems now he does not. While Jackson was not concerned with how much money LOTR would make, he knew that all signs would point to a failure since even quality fantasy films have bombed at the box office. He just wanted to make the best possible film adaptation that could possibly be and would delight middle-earth fans. Lucas seems like he just wants to make a shit load of money and make three films his kids will dig, without any care as to whether the films are high quality or if he'll please his loyal fans. Had George Lucas made 'Lord of the Rings' (he wanted to in the 80s, so the rumor goes) he would have cleaned it up to a PG rating, dumbed it down for the kiddies. Basically it would have been like a cross between Willow and the Rankin/Bass animated "Return of the King". After all 'Willow' was basically a cross between LOTR and 'The Hidden Fortress' except it was greatly simplified. Not that it's not a great kids movie, but it is just that A KIDS MOVIE. I think what hurt the film commericially is it was pushed as "the next great adventure" ad nauseam not simply as "an enjoyible family film". Even the DVD campaign was a little insulting. "Before Hobbits there was Willow"..... uh before Hobbits??? "The Hobbit" predates Willow by 50 years and "Lord of the Rings" by 30 years. I guess anything to make Lucas' ideas seem orginal...
Star Wars-Episode III: Chasing Amidala (a.k.a. Lucas Returns The by jollydwarf	Feb 28th, 2002 01:07:42 AM
Anakin: Now the reason why I brought both of you here, Padme and Obi Wan, is because while I have separate issues with both of you, I figured it would be best to deal with them both at once. PADME: (Fighting Tears) Don't do this, Anakin. ANAKIN: Obi Wan, the tension between us needs to be resolved. You have issues with my love for Padme and your dark side Force issues are clearly your attraction to me. Yes! You have feelings for me much as I have feelings for Padme. OBI WAN: I have a bad feeling about this... ANAKIN: Padme, just because my judgement was clouded by the Jedi discipline and your being 'protected' by two Jedi at once in your past, doesn't mean that I don't want to let go a little more. (Kneeling in front of her) That's what all of this dark side nonsense I'm feeling is about. (Obi Wan looks vexed) I've always wanted to cut loose like I know you have and can. But because I have a heart and a soul to answer to, I think that the three of us need to feel our Darkness together. PADME: Ani, I've always been looking for a man who would be that piece that would fill my vacant heart, whereas I kept myself occupied with leadership and affiliations of the sorts that you do not approve of. My handmaidens have cast me aside. I have done this all for you. I am your wife. I am your princess. But I am not your strewn-across-a-Coruscant-gutt er whore. Goodbye. (Walks out door, leaving a stunned Anakin and a somewhat redeemed but disgruntled Obi Wan. Cut to Exterior of room with 3PO and R2 leaning up against wall. They watch her flee in anguish.) C-3PO: Well, I say, Artoo, ain't that some shit. If the bitch hadn't been dressing up like an Outer Rim bathhouse geisha girl all those years, perhaps her nickname would not be "Doubleblade". (Artoo whistles in agreement). Yes, "snoochie boochie" indeed. AND THAT FOLKS, IS HOW ANAKIN BECAME VADER...
jollydwarf by JMYoda	Feb 28th, 2002 01:15:58 AM
That was fuckin' hilarious! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Hey, All You STAR WARS & LORD O' TH' RINGS Fans Ready To by Buzz Maverik	Feb 28th, 2002 01:36:29 AM
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Ryalto by JMYoda	Feb 28th, 2002 02:04:47 AM
First off, the unfilmable tag was not applied to LOTR solely because of it's technical requirements but because it would take a director who would be willing to be as serious as if he was making a historical epic, something that hasn't been done in the fantasy genre before. Plus no one thought that all the important details of Tolkien's rich story could be squeezed into any movie, even three films. Second, Lucas did not create the CGI effects in TPM, those where created by the genius of ILM. They where first developed on Terminator 2, Jurassic Park, Death Becomes Her, The Masks etc none of which are Lucasfilm productions. (He did help push the envelope with Young Indy however.) In fact Lucas tend to undervalue all his artists except for Dennis Muren, that's why so many have left to form their own FX houses (Dykstra, Endlund, Tippet, Ralston... The list goes on.) Yes Lucas did get ILM to push the envelope with TPM. However to say that the effect in TPM are far superior to the effects in 'Fellowship' is silly. Sure the Podrace, Coruscant and Theed are impresive and realistic most the other effects in TPM look digital. Everything is too clean and shiny to the point where it lacks character. Nothing looks as good as the Asteroid Chase in 'Empire' which had character. Rivendale was much more realistic and believable then the overly stylized Otah Gunga. Then you have the battle droid/ Gungan army. All the Gungans except for Jar Jar and Tarpales look exactly the same. Because of that they look and feel CGI. The Orcs in LOTR all look different and are hideous and scary. If Lucas made LOTR the Orcs wouldn't be hideous and scary, they'd be green and goofy. They'd act like the moronic battle droids. If you look at the Human/Elf/Orc battle shown in the prologue it is way more realistic then the Gungan/Droid battle and it's only a taste of what is to come in the next film (which will have three major battles) The effects in the "Holy Trilogy" where dark and had character, the effects in FOTR where dark and had character. However except for Coruscant, Theed and some of the Podrace the effects in TPM where nice eye candy but sterile like the graphics in a videogame. They lacked the imperfections of the real world. I will agree the technology behind TPM could be superior to LOTR, however the effects artists at Weta did more with what they had. Lucas was lazy and didn't push ILM to make everything look real. As for Lucas knowing how to end an act II, yes he did know... back in 1980. However back then he also knew how to make an exciting movie with great dialogue, an exciting story and very evil villains... Something he couldn't do with TPM. As for a franchise pissing contest. That's not what I was doing. I love both Star Wars and Lord of the Rings passionately. I've been a die-hard Star Wars fanatic for over twenty years and have a SW collection that takes up an entire room, wall to wall, ceiling to floor. "Empire" and "A New Hope" are my two all-time favorite films and I've seen the orginal trilogy more times then I can remember. Heck Yoda is not only my name online, it's what all my friend IRL call me. I've always been known to everyone I know IRL and online as THE guy who knows everything about Star Wars. However my dismay now is because I went into 'The Phantom Menace' expecting a great film like ANH or ESB and instead got a mediocre kiddy film with only some flashes of the Star Wars magic. Then I went to see 'Fellowship of the Ring' and it not only met my expectations but exceeded them ten-fold. However Star Wars is still my favorite franchise but it's because of the brilliant Orginal Trilogy. However if you think TPM is as good as the OT and better then FOTR. Well that's your right but IMO it's not even remotely close and among life-long die-hard SW fans I'm far from alone.
doh by JMYoda	Feb 28th, 2002 02:09:57 AM
I seem to be loosing S's on the end of some of my plural words. If you find them please report to the lost and found. Thank you.
Neato by Darth Melkor	Feb 28th, 2002 02:17:35 AM
News on the new trailer and what appears to be a brand new mace windu image http://www.ew.com/ew/report/0, 6115,213487~1~0~asneakpeekat,0 0.html
Like Desmond Toutou would have said..... by drompter	Feb 28th, 2002 02:57:36 AM
STOP THE SW VS LOTR DEBATE!!!STOP THE SW VS LOTR DEBATE!!!STOP THE SW VS LOTR DEBATE!!!STOP THE SW VS LOTR DEBATE!!!STOP THE SW VS LOTR DEBATE!!!
George Lucas is the most successful director of all time? by chiknfriedelfsac	Feb 28th, 2002 03:07:38 AM
First of all that assumes success if based on box office, but that's another story. His only blockbusters were TPM and ANH, although admittedly that's a lot of money. American Graffiti was a pretty big hit too but nothing record-breaking. That's it pretty much. He didn't direct the Indy movies or any other movies he's collaborated on. There's a reason for this. The reason is: Lucas is a shitty director. While I give him credit for story ideas (earlier in his career at least) and of course greatly advancing the field of special effects, as far as writing dialogue and getting actors to speak it, he stinks up the joint. "George can direct an action scene," well, perhaps he can, but so can Michael Bay, and I don't hear many calling him a great director. While I have fond memories of the original trilogy, lately, viewing them from an adult's perspective, they're not that great. I still like them, but to call them among the greatest movies of all time...I don't see it. AOTC is going to suck. Everyone knows this, even though they won't admit it to themselves. It's going to be worse than TPM. Just the scenes alone from the romance trailer show that it will suck. I don't care if they're taken out of context or not, that trailer literally made me cringe in my seat. Some directors have the ability to make good-to-marginal actors look great, Lucas has the ability to make good-to-great actors look bad. Some talent there. While it's been said many times before, I think "bloated sellout" is the most fitting term for Lucas now. He could actually try to make the movies good, you know. He doesn't need to pander to the lowest common demoninator. There was no way the new Star Wars trilogy was going to fail - could have been more or less successful, but not fail. He could have tried to make it better, pander a little less to the kiddies and dimwits. He wasn't going to go bankrupt. But no, he had to wring every last cent he could from the movie by any means necessary. This is not a series of movies now, it is a series of money-making ventures. I really hope I'm wrong and the new movie is suprisingly good. It could happen I suppose. But then again, I could win the lottery and have a car-full of lingerie-clad supermodels on x break down outside my house on a rainy night. That's about as likely as the possibility of AOTC not sucking in my book.
Filmaker by Darth Melkor	Feb 28th, 2002 03:16:29 AM
Lucas is not the most successful director of all time, but he is the most successful filmaker of all time.
nothing to debate about.. by holoholojoe	Feb 28th, 2002 03:18:16 AM
both directors wanted the audiences to view their ENTIRE body of work. neither has finished that. so what is there really to argue about. ------------comparison by its very nature is not precise, what are you comparing?-------- if you compare LOTR to TPM, i'd say they are both just marginally enjoyable (didn't read the book, damn, it's a movie right? if i wanted to read the book, i would have bought the book first) LOTR was just basically fight-walk-fight-walk, actually same as TPM, the acting skills were basically the same between the two films, although that viggo dude was good, but so was that palpatine fella. so i dunno what all the fuss is all about. -------- if you had to compare LOTR with ANH, then ANH was a groundbreak film, for the impact it had on the entire movie industry - including now, for the visual special effects, for introducing to us a "real" space world where things are not clean and sanitized. watching ANH was like the first time you saw "bullet time" in matrix. it was NEW and exciting. on the other hand, what did LOTR do that was groundbreaking? what wowed you? was there anything in LOTR you have never seen before, ever? all i can think of is LOTR gave the fantasy movies category heft and serious consideration like an arthouse film now. what else did it do? like it or not, it's a runner up movie in many respects. it's came after we've seen all the crap movies about fantasy, so images of orcs, elves, and such is not THAT groundbreaking to see it again even if done a bit better. It came after we've seen killer CGIs, so LOTR has nice CGIs, but did it wow you like when you first saw ANH? it came after we've seen great story lines, there are really only 7 basic movie scripts, going on a quest has been done better in the past, hell, go see ben-hur, or that japanese samurai movie from kurusawa...as good as LOTR is to many here, it's still seconds to many things in the movie world if you take an unbias view. it's only first in LOTR book fans.----- plus, i saw both movie only once in the theatres. didn't bother buying the DVD, saw TPM again on TV, but doubt i will do the same for LOTR, 3 hours is just too long..like i said, never read the book, and even after watching the movie, i still have no desire to.
why is everybody talking about lotr? by pparker	Feb 28th, 2002 03:49:53 AM
are you guys insane?
Well, I like both LotR and Star Wars. by Gabba-UK	Feb 28th, 2002 04:41:25 AM
So I get two shot's of film related pleasure this year and none of the poison that seems to flow so easily from from these talkbacks. Peace.
It doesn't matter!!!!!!!!!!!!! by Jerry_Seinfield	Feb 28th, 2002 04:49:58 AM
Does it matter if Gandalf could beat the shit out of obi-one or if obi-one could beat the shit out of Gandalf, or if Jedi
If only people would take their medication before posting... by Jadeh	Feb 28th, 2002 04:56:13 AM

You guys are yammering on like ninnyhammers, spouting invective, by Almost Sexy	Feb 28th, 2002 05:24:11 AM

Dear Anal na thrack (?sic? (I wish I could do the flipped around by Almost Sexy	Feb 28th, 2002 05:33:53 AM
Dear Mr. na-Thrack. I also saw Happiness, and was sorely devoid of feeling afterwords. Could you supply your take on what you liked about the film? A lot of reviews I read lately accuse big doc Solondz (sic again?) of holding his characters in contempt, which I'm not sure I really agree with, but I sure have a hard time relating to his characters, or even caring about them. Now "Your Friends and Neighbors" is clearly a film where the entire cast is an amalgam of all the worst things about humanity. That was a repulsive film. Jason Patric seemed to think it was important though...
Star Wars vs. Lord of The Rings... by MonkE	Feb 28th, 2002 05:41:18 AM
... I have to say although I thought Lord of the Rings was a great film, and I thoroughly enjoyed it, it just didn't raise the excitement levels in me as much as Star Wars! Even episode 1 with the duel of the fates - that was damn cool! There isn't really a scene in LOTR that stands out as clearly. Even Crouching Tiger was a lot more exciting than LOTR!
AOTC WILL OWN 2002 by Atticus Finch	Feb 28th, 2002 06:37:57 AM
you know it will
Whatever. by i'mYOURman	Feb 28th, 2002 07:58:13 AM
Keep on bitching about Star Wars and LOTR. Like Lucas and Jackson are gonna give a shit. And don't fuck with the bearded Gods! Advice for all of you boys: You really need to get some fresh air.
New trailer to air March 10th on Fox! by Andy Travis	Feb 28th, 2002 08:38:16 AM
In-between Malcom and X-Files, so says theforce.net and entertainment weekly. Will be 2-and-a-half minutes, features lots of Jedi shots, as well as the man himself, Mace. Oh, and some guy named Anakin too, probably...
George Lucas loves his fans... by Yojimbo Jones	Feb 28th, 2002 09:26:15 AM
...wallets and pea-brains. George Lucas doesn't care what his purile fanboys think about his movie(s). ALL he cares about is selling more toys. His movies suck. Okay, SW and ESB were enjoyable flicks...when we were 7 years old. The rest sucked, and sucked badly. And still, Lucas doesn't concern himself, as long as he keeps selling toys with names that 2-y-o's involuntarily spit out when they walk around the kitchen banging pots with wooden spoons: "jar jar bink! jar jar bink!! bo ba fett! bo ba fetttt!!!" The best thing Lucas ever did was that awesome ABC television Star Wars Christmas Special. Just think...if PJ was half as intelligent, he'd do the same thing and bring Tom Bombadil to life under ye ole tannenbaum. But, as many posters here have already suggested, a dunce like PJ is nowhere near the creative genius toy-producer that GL is. O well, we can relive a 20 year tradition shortly, and get all hyped and disappointed at the crashing SNORE-FEST that is the new Star Wars franchise -- AOTC. The title alone scares me...we going to be attacked by a ROTJ and TPM clone. Egads!!!!
PJ is a hack by Yojimbo Jones	Feb 28th, 2002 09:37:33 AM
All fat slobs like PJ care about is nonsense like narrative arc, etc. Useless stuff. The Star Wars franchise doesn't have one, then again, it doesn't need one, so long as Lucas gives us new groundbreaking CGI that makes us go, wow, cool or what? All that stuff about characterization and plot and themes, that's for old people, not real movie fans. And yes, damn straight, that ABC Star Wars Xmas Special is still the best episode (4b) of the lot, it rocks!!!! I'm still disappointed it never came to play my local IMAX theater though, that would be the shit, man!! Dude, Chewwy is AWESOME!!!! Did you see him dancing and stuff? Lucas didn't need CGI for that. Proves GL is da BOMB and confirms by comparison that PJ is a total hack!!!
I have something to say... by AliceInWonderlnd	Feb 28th, 2002 10:17:05 AM
The original trilogy blew me away back in the day, and from the reaction it garnered at the time, I wasn't the only one. OT Star Wars is cool, end of story. Even ROTJ is cool despite its flaws. And yeah, I was a kid when I saw it, but a lot of people who weren't kids also saw it and loved it. Hell, everybody loved it and lapped it up, and so they should in a right-thinking universe. But then, it had a lot of advantages as the other movies in the seventies were all quite grim, negative, and dour. SW was a blast of fresh escapist good vs. evil air. But then, if you're going to make a good vs. evil movie, the good isn't going to impress anybody unless the evil is well-formed and ill-natured. In the OT, planets are arbitrarily blown up, chicks are tortured, and kindly mentors struck down by black-armoured bad guys. This is conspicuously absent from TPM. The forces of good just seem to be vaguely inconvenienced more than anything else, a feeling not helped by the actors' poor delivery of dull lines. This is a ginormous problem, as all good drama involves conflict. So instead of good vs. evil you get the cute but kind of annoying somewhat at odds with the greedy and incompetent. A lot of people whale on TPM as if it were the worst movie ever made. It isn't, not by a very long chalk. It has been proven scientifically that Battlefield Earth was much worse. TPM is worse than bad, in that it's a SW movie that is only mediocre. Personally, I thought the design was fabulous, the effects were great, Jar-Jar is annoying, yes, because too much time is spent on him, but he isn't responsible for ruining the whole film, anymore than Jake Lloyd is. I've got to go head to head with the Professor here and declare that TPM was always doomed to mediocrity because in spite of the stuff going in its favour, it has 20 years of history of movies being made using the Star Wars template, and the story wasn't good enough to offset that. The characters don't work in the main, and the ones that could are marginalised. A movie without good characters is essentially heartless, especially one with such clearly epic aspirations. But I have not come to bury SW, but to praise it. I haven't read the spoilers for AOTC, or looked at the designs. I'm going in with no expectations. Maybe I'll like it better this time around. After all, if I expect a mediocre movie and get a great one, then I'm quids in, aren't I?
I couldn't care less about AOTC or LOTR, but Solaris and Kil by Radiohead	Feb 28th, 2002 10:22:40 AM
I couldn't care less about AOTC or LOTR, but Solaris and Kill Bill interest me ... *** Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the Kill Bill script? * It must be on the web someplace. My thoughts on Tarantino's films thus far: Reservoir Dogs: 3-1/2 out of 4 stars -- Pulp Fiction: 4 out of 4 stars -- Jackie Brown: 3 out of 4 stars -- Four Rooms: 1 out of 4 stars (God I hated that movie!) *** As far as Star Wars and Lord of the Rings are concerned: If I were 12 years old I'm sure I'd be very excited about them, but since I'm over 18 now I can see R-rated films (you know, the movies that are made FOR ADULTS??).
that's all well and good by rev_skarekroe	Feb 28th, 2002 11:12:58 AM
But what about Christopher Walken's role as Darth Bane? What about Gillian Anderson as Qui-Gon's lost Jedi love? What about Obi-Wan flying the Millenium Falcon? When does Grand Admiral Thrawn show up? We want answers! sk
Mori's review, Harry, cool geeks and dorky geeks, Lucas by wonkaworld	Feb 28th, 2002 11:50:15 AM
Reading posts can be very amusing at times..this post is no exception...I have a few points to make not unlike everybody else: 1. Mori, your review was great..everything about it was very informative and professional. You combined your love for Star Wars and films (geekness) perfectly- objective and subjective...well done. To all those who think there are hidden messages and meanings to Mori's review, such as trying to get "back in the ranch", give me a break. Mori loves film, and Star Wars..he is a geek like me and everyone else..that is why he takes time to write to us..that is why we go to this site...there is no political agenda..get over it. 2. Harry! You are the man...I have been reading this site since you began..you do a good job with it and putting up with crap from talk back and what not..Just dont get too big (books, shows, ET articles..etc...) dont ever be a PRODUCED geek...be down to earth and humble..like you have always been. (side note..the fact that they sent you a private jet to see ROLLERBALL and you still bashed it makes me laugh...way to go..hell with them and their shmooozing bull sht). 3. There are some geeks that give other geeks a bad name..I wait in line for films like Star Wars..probably more time spent with that than i should...but i would never hope a movie such as Star Wars Ep. 2 to suck. Why would someone want it to suck? Admit it..Star Wars is the initial reason you guys come to this site...LOTR and SW are saviors of the movie industry..lets all hope for the best in both cases... 4. Lastly, i think we all need to realize that Lucas doesnt owe us jack sht...we already have a trilogy of films that entraced us then and now...we should feel lucky that new SW films are coming out...this is an exciting time!!! Lets try to have fun...Lucas fat jokes, Jar Jar getting killed jokes, bad script writing by Lucas statements...give me a break..if you can do better write a script, get it made while balancing everything else it takes to make a quality film and then email me at wonkabars7@hotmail.com I will take you to dinner and give you my girlfriend for a night if you make it... Long live Lucas, who has spent his lifetime over giving us visual treats and something to grow with.. ta-ta for now.. tee-tee for then.. wonka
JMYoda & Yojimbo Jones rock by IAmLegolas	Feb 28th, 2002 11:56:59 AM
Yep, they do.
I read somewhere that PJ says that comparing Star Wars and Lord by holidill	Feb 28th, 2002 12:14:46 PM
Damn I wish I knew where I read that but it's true, he laughed when asked about the debate and said something like it is two different stories, and that ILM helped PJ out a little bit. Now if PJ says it's ridiculous, shouldn't this debate end now? Enjoy the series' for what they are, two different storylines! Now both you Star Wars fans and Lord of the Rings fans settle down, or else I will sick Buzz Maverick's Mercs on yo' asses. Damn, must find the article!
The O.T(Ignoring Ewoks n stuff) by jimdin2001	Feb 28th, 2002 12:15:13 PM
Point 1) Return of the Jedi is a fantastic cinematic movie because the battle between Luke and vader/emporer with the ackbar/empire struggle literally as a background is superb in the cinema. 2) The rest is starwars- killing jabba was cool and he best example of Lukes jediness came here 3) then there is the issue of them ewoks. They dont piss me off at all- they show military strategy and cunning as opposed to crappy in-the-open-for-the-first-time -with-shields-and victory-rests-upon-just-one-of -us-gungans. and theyre real in the sense that theyre not cgi and dont piss me off 1 bit. E1 had a small no of cool things but was more of a hommage to the OT. E2 is a new organism of the story.....roll on may 16
i agree with jimdin by magic_ninja	Feb 28th, 2002 02:44:54 PM
ROTJ wasn't that bad at all, and it seems the people who have a glaring problem with it are just the nerds that like to complain and bitch about everything, because it's hard to believe that these guys had these strong critisims about Jedi when they were 5 and 6 when it came out...i know i didn't, i could (and I still CAN) sit back and enjoy a fucking movie. Return of the Jedi was an alright flick, and all the haters can eat a bowl of dicks.
Day release by Kizeesh	Feb 28th, 2002 02:45:02 PM
Is the site going to update anytime? Its Thursday now y'know!
by belnez	Feb 28th, 2002 02:54:59 PM
one question, if leia and padme go with bail organa then vader would have easily found her, i thought she went in hiding. padme might die and leia might have memories of her adopted mother. so to the guy who said that no leads will die, how does he know?? mace windu might die at the start of the third film. the jedi and rebellion from the classic trilogy might turn out to be bad guys, the empire might be what every system wanted. how does he know, there is 2 whole films to fit in any story arcs could be thrown in. what if obi wan is lukes father and he turns into vader so anakin steals him and raises him and then becomes a recluse pretending to be kenobi????
Why was ROTJ so bad? by Dragonfire	Feb 28th, 2002 02:57:38 PM
Why does it seem that so many star wars fans on this site consider ROTJ to have been a bad film. Some of you even think TPM was better (WTF!) Seeing as I wasn't born yet when ROTJ came out, I didn't have the high expectations for it many of you probably did. I saw all the star wars films on video, and as a kid ROTJ was my favourite until I realized why ESB was better. However, I still prefer ROTJ to ANH. Sure the ewoks are irritating, but unlike TPM the film still had many strong points. The Luke/Vader/Palpatine confrontation and Vader's redemption is in my opinion the best part in the trilogy and more than makes up for the ewoks or any of the other childish tendencies ROTJ had. TPM on the other hand was a kids film in every sense of the word, and a bad one at that, and even though the lightsaber duel was flashy it didn't have any of the dramatic build up the duels in the original trilogy had. By the way, the whole "Lucas is better than Jackson because he created his own universe" thing. Yeah, the world of the original SW trilogy was a great feat of imagination, but the fact that PJ didn't create his own world doesn't make his work any less impressive. Bringing such a complex and beloved world as Tolkien's to the screen is a difficult task in itself. Making a great film out of any book is a difficult task, let alone one as popular and epic as LOTR.
i agree with martha...all the way.. by wonkaworld	Feb 28th, 2002 03:06:30 PM
radiohead, she makes good points all over the place...adult movies? what the heck are you talking about? i honestly feel bad for you...and you know that you will be in line for AOTC so get over it...
Okay, here's a humble hypothesis as to Eps 4&5 vs. Eps 6&1, by Trav McGee	Feb 28th, 2002 03:49:25 PM
Moriarty's KILL BILL mention got me thinking on this. At least, it reminded me of Harry's interview with Quentin T. many months back. In that interview, Q starts explaining his Movie Universes (someone find the link for my lazy ass? Thanks!) and how there's basically two: the REALER THAN REAL universe and the MOVIE MOVIE universe. If you're not familiar with what he's talking about, read the interview, I'll just fuck it up trying to explain. Now let me see if I can make this make sense... Episodes 4 and 5, to me, are the Realer Than Real parallel. Then for me, the ONE THING that took me out of ROTJ, moreso than Ewoks or Jabba's band (annoying but not disruptive, in this sense), was Chewie's TARZAN YELL. Right there, I cringed. As a 13 year old I couldn't really express why, but I groaned. It was a DIRECT reference to films/characters outside of Star Wars, not indirect by way of character types or plotlines or stylizations whatever, the multiple influences that are fun to point out; that damn Tarzan on a vine yell removes the viewer from that world and places that world in a Movie context. It says "This Is A Movie". Return of the Jedi suddenly goes from Realer Than Real to MOVIE MOVIE. And then with Phantom Menace (which despite all its flaws I enjoy greatly--I am no SW basher) the little outside-the-film movie references are RIFE: The ETs in the Senate, the 2001 pod in the junk pile, etc. Again, George Lucas is operating in his Movie Movie universe, when what we all want is the REALER THAN REAL again. Hopefully, hopefully, hopefully, George got all that silliness out of his system, and Ep. II is the Right Schtuff. ...So have at it, I'm curous what others think of that theory. Rip it up, I ain't married to it. But right now, it works for me.
Well about time... by Drcool975	Feb 28th, 2002 03:53:28 PM
Took you long enough Moriarty. Well worth the wait. I suppose we will have to brace ourselves for LOTR acolyte
NO MORE I QUIT SPOILERS BEGONE EVIL MAY THE POWER OF CHRIST COMP by Silacious CEE	Feb 28th, 2002 04:39:33 PM
This movie will be awesome I can't wait... Also I will also join Moriarty on the spoilers free endeavor anticipating Ep III join us, the next movie will be the payoff DOWN WITH SPOILERS!!!!
Are all Star War fans retarded or just Highfalutin? by Snaga-ape	Feb 28th, 2002 04:41:28 PM
What am I to make of this? I am only to hope this is better than last Star Wars piece of donkey fazoo but paranoia strikes deep. I guess I just wait and see. I have enjoyed most of Star Wars movies but I do remember Moriarity
McGee by jimdin2001	Feb 28th, 2002 05:48:01 PM
Thats basically wot i meant all them eons ago when i posted. E1 nods its head with more movie references than simpsons or Spaced (brilliant uk sci fi comedy). The main target of these nods-subtely- is the OT. I didnt remember the rotj tarzan reference but if u say it was there then..... Theres nothing morally wrong with this but we want somthing fresh after 20 years and something that feels like its a universe totally escaped froom our own. Thats a % of the joy of Starwars
I've Had It Up To Here! PissOff If You Can't Like Both S by Lilium	Feb 28th, 2002 07:23:26 PM
I am getting so sick of all these people who are either Anti-LOTR or Anti-Star Wars. Both of these movie series are arguably the best Sci Fi/Fantasy films of all times regardless of where they drew their material from. Whether ot be from an extremely hard source of literature or inspiration from said source of literature, Kurasawa films, etc. it is very hard to make a scriptment for either Star Wars or LOTR. The film's scriptment for LOTR was not handed to anyone on a silver platter. The person that said this obviously has no clue how hard it is to make a book into film. You have to alter scenes, add dialogue that makes sense in a modern era yet sound very Tolkienesque, and cut parts of the book that have no relevance to the story as a whole. As with Star Wars, it is a monumental task to create an original work out of being inspired by Kurasawa, Lord of the Rings, and all Lucas' other sources of inspiration and yet be different from those sources in some way yet keep their epic flavor. So quit ragging about what series is superior and get a life. Enjoy them both for what they are.
Examples of movies for adults by Radiohead	Feb 28th, 2002 08:51:34 PM
Examples of movies for adults: By "movies for adults" I mean movies like Mullholland Drive, Memento, In The Bedroom, The Man Who Wasn't There, etc.; not films featuring little people with hairy feet fighting goblins and other such nonsense. Or Jar Jar-type characters stepping in poop and farting. *** AOTC and LOTR fans: Go see 2001, the original Solaris, Blade Runner, Alien, or Metropolis. Those are "movies for adults." *** Radiohead
Most pathetic spectacle I have laid eyes on is utter stupid peop by Billy Talent	Feb 28th, 2002 09:26:41 PM
maggots in stew have thrown up on floor when I read it aloud. - That guy is some kind of a genius or something.
Is Lucas the Greatest? by Renata	Feb 28th, 2002 10:12:33 PM
Hardly. He's not great the way Kubrick or Kurosawa were great. He's not passionate the way Scorsese is. He's not introspective or emotional as Bergman or Ozu. He's not a "natural" filmmaker like Spielberg. He doesn't reach for grand opera like Coppola or Abel Gance. So why is he great? He created a whole genre, a whole different reason for going to the movies. As much as he (and Spielberg) are blamed for ushering the "blockbuster" mentality to movies, they deserve credit for making moviegoing fun again. Before Jaws, escapist filmmaking were hard edge movies like Exorcist or silly Irwin Allen stuff. It's not their fault so many lousy filmmakers (not to mention a whole Hollywood system) weren't able to carry their torch. Like any filmmaker, he's had missteps. Anyone whose had to sit through the bleak days of Howard the Duck and Radioland Murders knows of what I speak. But even if he didn't direct all through the eighties, he's great becaue he championed, with Coppola, Kurosawa's "Kagemusha", he produced "Koyonisqaatsi", and "Tucker". He's great because ILM redefined what special effects can be. Without ILM there would be no Digital Domain or Pixar. But I think what makes Lucas great is THX. The theatrical standard he set in the eighties is something people take for granted now. Anyone 30 or older probably remembers how awful picture and sound, how inconsistent, it was. I remember going into a theatre to see The Right Stuff and the film jumping in the gate and the sound being turned low. In my youth, I accepted this as a natural part of seeing movies. Pay your money and take your chances. It wasn't until Lucas began his set of standards (and theatres complied) that I think people began to realize how much they were missing. I know Kubrick tried something like this on his movies, but his reach was limited only to England, as he didn't like to travel. Lucas and the THX standard was the first attempt to raise the bar for watching a movie to a global level. He has often said his goal was to have an audience see a movie as close to an answer print as possible. Having seen answer prints and release prints, I take his statement to heart. There is no comparison that release prints are infinitely inferior. And for all of those who are living in small market cities, you have no idea what you're missing. Perhaps with the new 24P HD technology he's using for AOTC he can bring the answer print experience closer to reality. If this succeeds, then AOTC, if for nothing else, will have been a success. HD could liberate the art of filmmaking from the expensive coffers of the studios and give them back to people who really love movies. For this reason, Lucas still matters. In his own way, his movies are secondary to all of the seismic changes he's made to the art of filmmaking. Of course, the movies matter. But I think we've all taken for granted what he's acheived, and, in a very petty way, have come to perceive that bashing him makes us better and more significant people. Not so, I think. It makes us look like ungrateful children.
No one answered my question.... by MJAYACE	Feb 28th, 2002 11:02:45 PM
How much IS Jar Jar in it? I don't want to read the spoilers. And also I am looking forward to both AOTC, TT, Spiderman; even Harry Potter (although the first one started out great then faded--talk about lame ending!). I am not going to bash either Lucas or Jackson, because to me they are both great. This year is going to rock for exciting movies. Nothing can be worse then last year's movies prior to LOTR, Blackhawk, and Beautiful Mind. I mean Shrek was OK but not that great. Later
Driving to Palo Alto in a Truck..listening to soundtracks. ..Do by Dr. B. Quest	Feb 28th, 2002 11:43:38 PM
This sounds suspiciously like a few of my friends. You don't play $20.00 buy in Poker, do you? Was the truck Black? Inquring minds... P.S. I think LOTR might have been the knee in Lucas' groing to make him pay attention to what he was working on.
mjayace by the shrunkenHead	Feb 28th, 2002 11:48:57 PM
judging by current spoiler info Jar Jars hardly in it at all (don't get upset now). And Zombiehunter - bla bla bla, bla bla bla, ssssnore.......
Jar Jar by Darth Melkor	Mar 1st, 2002 12:10:32 AM
Jar Jar is supposedly in the first 10 minutes and then is written out or something like that.... And is also not the falling down stepping in crap Jar Jar of old.
Thanks to the man who provided the LOTR MPEG! by X-Girls	Mar 1st, 2002 12:53:29 AM
of the full-length film on Morpheus, BearShare, etc. etc. I LOVE IT! It didn't stop me from seeing it many times and planning to see it again.
"It aint new anymore. Spider-Man is. " by ParamountExec	Mar 1st, 2002 02:22:17 AM
That's just fucking brilliant.
Hey Radiohead! by MangusX	Mar 1st, 2002 04:55:02 AM
"I only watch adult movies" gee, what a bore- I hope you never have kids. I don't think anyone here thinks that "adult movies" by your definition, are bad, or not as good, as films for younger audiences. Most people can apreciate a serious drama, and a adventurous sci-fi flick both at the same time, if they're well done and entertaining. Also- do you really think that LOTR is for kids? I doubt any kid would go though the 1000+ pages of all three books (they aren't Harry Potter easy reading, by the way). LOTR is even considered a liturary classic by many scholarly and well educated people. And I think if you were to read them yourself (considering you havn't), you would find them more than just goblins and nonsence. You remind me of my dad who could never sit down and watch an episode of The Muppet Show. Geez- go watch a Bugs Bunny cartoon, and have some fun
Ideas about Ep iii by remer5150	Mar 1st, 2002 06:13:16 AM
Hey guys first time post. Interesting idea ive been getting badmouthed by my fellow geeks about is that i belive OBI-WAN WILL DIE AT THE END OF EP III. That is right. He will feel as though he has ultimately failed. And have a backup plan for protecting the twins (mostly Luke) on tattoine. My reasons for believing are that with all the hatred, rage, jealousy, and vengeance Anakin/Vader will feel finding himself still miraculousy alive thru the dark side, and knowing that Skywalkers are not particularly well known for their self control. Thus i believe vader will kill his master first and barely escape with his life. Otherwise why on earth would Vader who was in charge of the purge allow the new focal point of his misery OBI-Wan to live, Vader is not a mercyful character. Thats the only way i can see the whole thing playing out.
mellow by mellow	Mar 1st, 2002 08:11:30 AM
Mellow.Just mellow right out. Take a deep deep breath and exhaleslowly.Everyone.(Prefera bly on some of the local green.Its all good.)This shit is going to be cool no matter what. Mellow and enjoy. Let yourself relax and open up and let the flim do the work. If we all just believe....believe....believe. ahhh. thats better now.exhale.mellow. (If pain persists see your psychologist)
Call me ignorant, but... by Sepulchrave	Mar 1st, 2002 08:12:45 AM
clarify a point for me. Were there indeed several trailers for AOTC, released simultaneously and designed to appeal to different (ugh) 'market demographics', vis: slushy romance for the chicks, horrendous space kablooies for the boyz? I saw the gross one with that guy who looks like Justin Timberlake. Unpleasant. I rarely differ with Mori on anything and admire his reviews almost without exception, but I really think his views on the current drop of SW prequels are coloured by fond memories of the old trilogy. Argue about flaws? Nope, TPM was a gutless, bloodless, plodding BORING woefully underscripted and overplotted toyshow. Now imagine the same thing, but add a Titanic romance 'Jack, I'm flying' and there's AOTC. And no amount of screeentime from the two droids or Ian Mc Diarmud (anyone seen him in Crime and Pumnishment on BBC2? Brilliant) will save this elephantine turkey. It really hurts me to say it, if I didn't have TTT to loo forward to, I'd be depressed for the future of big fantasy.
mellow x2 by mellow	Mar 1st, 2002 08:17:45 AM
See man.This dude can do it. mmmmmmmmahhhhhhhhhhh mmmmmmmm ahhhhhhh. your so mellow man.
If Obi-Wan dies in ep3 then what does that make Alec Guiness? by holidill	Mar 1st, 2002 09:08:56 AM
His CLone? The theory has been around for a while with a name like OB-1. Also the reference to Kristy McNichol and the dude from the Blue Lagoon(Christopher Atkins)is this person someone who likes the classically stupid, but fun early 80s film The Pirate Movie, which by the way has a few Star Wars joke sin it. hmm, very interesting...
Hey MangusX! by Radiohead	Mar 1st, 2002 09:35:38 AM
If you like these sorts of movies, that's your prerogative; I don't, and haven't since I was about 12. I didn't care for The Phantom Menace, and I thought the first two hours of Fellowship of the Ring were perfectly entertaining -- and the last hour perfectly repetitive and tedious (I do respect what Peter Jackson attempted, though). If you enjoy these types of films, cool, but I prefer sci-fi and fantasy films that are more mature, e.g., Excalibur or Blade Runner. I'm just not into furry-footed midgets and amphibians who shuck and jive, and speak gibberish. If I were a child I'm sure that I would have loved Jar Jar and Frodo. (BTW, I LOVE Bugs Bunny; those old Warner Bros. cartoons operated on two levels. Besides, what's not to love about a politically incorrect, cross-dressing, ultraviolent, anarchistic wabbit?? ;-) )*** I came to this forum to get more info on Solaris and Kill Bill, not to debate the relative merits of Star Wars or Lord of the Rings. Maybe someone will answer my original question ...? *** Radiohead
Off the Subject:Connery is on Gentlemen by Mr. Nice Guy	Mar 1st, 2002 09:42:11 AM
Though Cinescape reported it almost a week ago, thought you would like to know that Sean Connery has officially signed on to the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen movie.
radiohead...radiohead...radiohea d...(sigh) by wonkaworld	Mar 1st, 2002 09:53:15 AM
radiohead, you are not the sharpest knife in the drawer, are you? this is a post space for people to talk about star wars 2 and mori's script review. its bad enough people are doing the LOTR vs. SW...and you want to talk about KILL BILL and SOLARIS? you are barking up the wrong tree..you should sing that RADIOHEAD song to yourself in this post "cause im a creep.......what the hell am i doin here...i dont belong here, i dont belong here".... ok, computer??? not as adult as you, wonka
REALITY CHECK by Michel Delving	Mar 1st, 2002 10:10:23 AM
Belly shirts, N'Sync, Kids. --------- p.s. thanks for deleting this same post earlier. What was wrong with it? p.s.s. your review sucked. those aren't spoilers. learn to write.
To: Drcool975 (Sheer Poetry) by SpecterAlexZero	Mar 1st, 2002 12:29:34 PM
"This is not an attempt to break whatever fragile cease-fire is in place but I am aware that there are loser-loving homos whose assholes are already moistening at the prospect of dissing the Darkside and declaring EPII a dismal failure. Long live the Force and to all you LOTR jackoffs,
Pardon my ignorance Highfalutin and may scarab larva infest you by Snaga-ape	Mar 1st, 2002 12:53:09 PM
I was asking innocent question. It is known fact that some snaga do not get enough nutrient during gestation in egg-sack. My thinking is that since Highfalutin made such ridiculous and stupid statement which I enclose in quote marks for here
Final Thoughts Until The Trailer Hits by jollydwarf	Mar 1st, 2002 01:00:41 PM
I went to the TPM links. (Stifling a laugh). Yeah, Episode I was probably MY favorite of the films, too. (Spitting out suppressed guffaw) Umm...excuse me. Anyways, after that, I have to say that it's really funny to see a 3-01-02 or 2-28-02 post at the end of a Talkback where the next most recent was like 11/98 or something. My, how time has its way with us. Also, the script review is wrong on almost every count, based on the way it all played out. Anakin was terrible, the Gungans all bit, both Darths almost seemed like they were cameo characters from a better film, and while Liam Neeson was great at Qui Gon, he was NOT charismatic. If anything, he made a point to be tranquil and unobtrusive and NOT stir shit up overtly. The list goes on. I mean, how can a script to celluloid translation go that wrong? Hmmm... As far as Boba Fett is concerned, I can only hope he plays a part in Ep III, maybe saving Anakin when he's one inch away from death. Or maybe he comes back and kills a certain Jedi. I still think Jar Jar will make a heroic sacrifice. I still think Obi Wan defeats Anakin somehow when he realizes that he can't directly beat him, because, "you can't win, but there are alternatives to fighting." Sort of like how another trilogy 'ends', if you will (wink wink). Chewbacca and/or the Falcon have to have a small part in the next film. Was Duchovny supposed to play Captain Antilles? Is Mace a traitor? Are the necessary clues in "Menace"? Will Gabriel Byrne play Tarkin? C'mon, Tarkin HAS to be in it. Does Anakin's official turn happen when he kills Darth Tyranus? (Note: I'm not saying if he does or not, 'cause I honestly don't know) Oh well, we'll see soon enough, and the "D" Trailer will tell us only so much, as I am still kicking myself for sitting through "Wing Commander" to see the "C" Trailer of Episode I (Which had me sold). I'm sorry, I'm weak. I can't walk out of a movie no matter how hard I try. P.S. Are the four Episode II preview figures out yet? My friend that manages a Toys R Us hasn't seen them yet, but I thought they were supposed to be out in February.
Hmm Nobody answered my question.. by Sepulchrave	Mar 1st, 2002 02:30:07 PM
Methinks the persons talking back here are more interested in venting spleen and YELLING ABOUT MINUTIAE than anything else. Also, this appears to be the place for Jackson/FOTR backlash, whadsamadder? are y'all annoyed that your predictions for a financial catastrophe and critical drubbing were so wildly wrong. Sorry about that. This time a few months hence we'll all be up to our necks in excremental reviews for Clones, then a few months later, we'll be basking in more Tolkien-related sunshine and sweet air. This war is over. Long over. Not that there's a war..oops. Anyway, whats the story with the wuss trailer with swoonsome heartthrob Anakin? PS: I hope elfkiller is a joke and I hope that Jesus isn't on his way back. Nail some sense into 'em, that what I say!
Two words: Jar Jar by Yojimbo Jones	Mar 1st, 2002 03:18:05 PM
To the seething posters who want to know why we can't love both SW and LOTR...fact is, many of us do love both. It's ROTJ and TPM we don't like. That's like, two movies in 20 years, and ewoks and Jar Jar are for the kiddies -- very, very small kiddies. And I agree with the rest of you, sure, PJ completely ripped-off George Lucas, how else to explain the beginning of FOTR where the script drifts off to the distant horizon: "A long time ago, in a Middle-Earth far, far away ...". Now that's genius back-story!!!
The Following Is A List Of Everything Highfalutin' Finds Fun by Buzz Maverik	Mar 1st, 2002 04:28:54 PM

I'm Very Badly Hurt By Your Opinion Of My Jokes, Highflatule by Buzz Maverik	Mar 1st, 2002 11:21:44 PM
...I'm not. It's too bad you're powerless in your life and you're trying to make yourself feel better this way. But dig this, you're some guy on the internet who I never met. I've never even read one of your posts before. I don't care squat about you or what you think. I'm the kind of guy you hate, the kind of guy you can't insult. The only reason I'm answer you at all is that Buzz Maverik lives by the Wiseass Creed which means that you never ignore the heckler. Face it, dude, I'm funny and you're probably not. Writing "that's bullshit" or "you suck" kind of shows you the mind we're dealing with here. So, again, I'm sorry your Mom didn't love you, but that kind of leaves you unequipped to deal with me, doesn't it?
That Said, I Now Present A List Of Highfalutin's Sexual Part by Buzz Maverik	Mar 1st, 2002 11:25:49 PM

what's aotc going to be rated by dshegle	Mar 2nd, 2002 03:35:03 AM
Does anyone have any reliable info on what AOTC will be rated? I need to know! let me know at dshegle@juno.com
wonkaworld...wonkaworld...wonkaw orld...(melodramatic sigh) by Radiohead	Mar 2nd, 2002 10:55:40 AM
Li'l Willy: Your reading comprehension skills and memory aren't very good, are they? *** When I was doing a site search for information on Kill Bill and Solaris, this is one of the pages that came up, since Moriarty mentioned those films prior to his AOTC script review. (Can you remember back that far?) Since this forum featured the most recent reference to the aforementioned movies, I posted here. (Wouldn't have made much sense to post in a months-old, defunct forum now would it?) * Oh, and before you impugn someone's intellect you should probably go learn proper grammar, syntax, punctuation, and spelling; not only is my knife undoubtedly sharper than yours, it's also probably much bigger. No go away and brush up on your writing skills you semi-literate, ugly nerd. *** Radiohead
I have a hero, and his name is Buzz Maverick by Voice O. Reason	Mar 2nd, 2002 03:00:45 PM
I still haven't seen LORD OF THE RINGS. Do I care if some of you LoTR fans won't see STAR WARS? HELL NO! Do what you want to do.
This TB is quite long... by Caine	Mar 2nd, 2002 03:32:02 PM
And I doubt anyone will go all the way through to read MY post, but here it is anyway. *** After Reading Morairty's enthusiastic review of the script, I have to say that some of my faith and enthusiasm has been renewed. I have my own likes and dislikes of TPM, but overall was quite disappointed with it. I have been, as a result, very cynical about the next installment. I only hope that the movie is not afraid to show some of the gritty scenes that have been described in various information outlets, like the slaughter of the Tuskan village. I admit that the preview with Anakin
episode 2 will rock by mysterycog	Mar 2nd, 2002 07:39:50 PM
Yours is the second review of the script i have read so far and to be honest my hopes are sky high. thanks for the good news.
Boring Review by X-Girls	Mar 2nd, 2002 08:44:30 PM
just wanted to let you know.
AOTC by alcester	Mar 2nd, 2002 10:35:40 PM
Lucas should stop using all those CGI effects, they have been done to death. there isnt anything new to add that hasnt been done a thousand times before. What made the original STAR WARS so special was the ground breaking special effects . LESS IS MORE! and im still insulted by JAR JAR , that crap was for preschoolers.
LOTR over $700 mil by Mark Twain	Mar 2nd, 2002 11:43:42 PM
I love dolphins but I must respectfully disagree. LOTR is not out of the theaters yet and definitely looks on track to break 1 bil. This is without the rereleases yet to come that Star Wars has already had the benefits of.
Star Wars Spoilers by 2373	Mar 3rd, 2002 01:34:46 AM
Ok, folks lets think about this objectively. Spoilers can create excited response in unnecessary ways. The Phantom Menace script was very different from the way it ended up on film. The mind creates imagination to fit the way you want the film to turn out. I read spoilers with a grain of salt. I do not believe half of what is being said. The fun of seeing a picture with no expectations is the way I go, and it will be the way I go when I walk into ATTACK OF THE CLONES!!! Much of what is in the finished script now will be altered and reshaped for the screen!!! This came from Producer Rick Mccallum's own mouth. The script that has been reviewed by moriarty is not what will be seen on screen!!!!! So people, spoilers will be of no use to you! Do you not think that George himself did not anticipate this?
to holidill, if you're still out there... by arkhan77	Mar 3rd, 2002 02:55:16 AM
dude, you've got to e-mail me with a working address, i've got to talk to you but your address on this talkback doesn't work. mine does, so e-mail me. thanks.
More Unimportant Box Office Crap by DarthZachToo	Mar 3rd, 2002 05:26:13 AM
The billion dollar Star Wars(the original) adjusted for inflation gross is in North America only. Its adjusted worldwide take is well over 2 billion dollars(check 2002 Guiness Book of World Records if you don't believe me--something like $1.5 billion internationally adjusted for inflation).., exceeding Titanic and trailing only Gone with the Wind. But this does include all rereleases. FOTR will make 8 maybe 9 hundred million dollars worldwide. This is very impressive but not close to all-time box office champs. But as noted, and as will be noted I'm sure, box office has little to no relevance in terms of how good a film is. But in terms of popularity, ticket sales or adjusted gross is relevant. But again popular doesn't equal good. More fun Star Wars box office numbers: each Star Wars sequel has made over $400 million domestically alone...putting them in the top twenty all-time...no other sequels come close. Will AOTC follow suit or break this trend?
I find my lack of faith disturbing... by krakho	Mar 3rd, 2002 06:26:09 AM
(1) I'm a true child of the 70's Star Wars Cult. Have every action figure, ship, etc...you name it, I own it. (2) I recite lines from the saga (much to the chagrin of my wife) at will. (3) I'm sure you've all heard this sorry ass story before... That being said, I REFUSE to be a slave to the hype again. Let's just say that I was one of the many wretched fans disappointed with TPM. So much so that I REFUSE to buy into any hype about AOTC. I want to believe. I want to be mentally fucked so hard by this movie that I forget everything that happend with Episode I, but I REFUSE. So, I'm playing it safe. I didin't read the script review, I don't go to websites anymore that claim to have the "latest info," etc. I'll still probably be one of the first in line to see it (such is my madness), but I want to watch with an open mind and heart. May Lucas have mercy on my movie-going soul. ;)
What's with that huge gulf between article and talkbacks her by ewem	Mar 3rd, 2002 09:58:31 AM
I appreciate Moriarty's work here, except yeah, between this and other posts, I more or less know what's going to happen in this movie. It sounds good...but then again Moriarity also made TPM sound good with his enthusiasm. He is an unabashed fan boy, bu who can blame him>? I, for one, will see this movie expecting it by default to be better than TPM. It has to be, right?
You people are pathetic by ParamountExec	Mar 3rd, 2002 11:12:16 AM
Look at yourselves! What causes this behavior? Why do you insist on dragging LOTR into every SW discussion? What does one have to do with another? You people have to be teenagers or younger, have to be. You have to have your own generational identity and Star Wars is for the older generation. LOTR is your SW. Fine. But you don't have to validate yourselves by ripping on another franchise, That is just the height of toolishness. And to the shithead who said SW ripped of LOTR, they both ripped off the same sources, much older than either of them. Just because your knowledge of literature doesn't reach before the 20th century doesn't make LOTR an original work.
LOTR will NEVER make as much $$$ as AOTC by Yojimbo Jones	Mar 3rd, 2002 12:34:31 PM
LOTR will NEVER make as much cash as ANY Star Wars franchise, because unlike Ewoks, Jar Jar, Harry Potter or those genius Home Alone movies, Peter Jackson doesn't make movies for 5 year olds. So get used to it LOTR fanboys, the movie you worship is just far too involved for anyone over the age of 9. Thank god we have a real inspired filmmaker like George Lucas who understands deep down that cinematic greatness is bestowed upon he who sells the most toys. That's fact. Go get 'em Georgy-Boy, give us more Ewoks and Jar Jar please, they are the best.
Still more box office by Mark Twain	Mar 3rd, 2002 12:47:34 PM
Well I been around a lot longer than all of you, so hopefully I can put to rest this "adjusted for inflation" war horse that gets dragged into every discussion. Very few sources (Guiness included), correctly adjust for inflation. Their formula usually follows something like, well if a movie made a million dollars in 1939 in todays money that movie would have made . . . . Movie ticket sales do not follow inflation step by step. A more accurate measurement is the average ticket price at the time the movie was released. This is the only way to measure how many times a ticket was purchased and is much more indicative of a movie's appeal (notice I didn't say quality). So if you really want to calculate the math on Star Wars EP4's initial release, take the average ticket price from 1977 and and adjust to today's. I'm not bashing Star Wars (I do love the first two), but I want this "inflation" chestnut put out of our misery once and for all. Given this more correct formula, EP4 came nowhere near 2 billion. And I'll bet you a Mississippi mudhen that FOTR reaches 1 billion before the end of the year, no rereleases or inflation adjustments necessary.
Might as well be talking to myself here by ParamountExec	Mar 3rd, 2002 05:22:45 PM
Go ahead and SW all you like, you moronic LOTR fanboys. Forget I said anything. Idiots. Just stop trying to convince anyone that LOTR is somehow deeper than SW or that its characters are less goofy. You sound fucking retarded talking like that.
Good on You ParamountExec by Miss Aura	Mar 3rd, 2002 05:24:43 PM
Its becoming boredom city, having to listen to this LOTR v AOTC on nearly every talkback. They are 2 different films which we should all enjoy, instead of constant bickering about which is best. The thing is, that nothing will stop this. It will continue on and on until the whole trilogy's have been released and laid to rest. Instead of embracing these films, we have individuals who wish to knock them. I'm not surprised by any of it, as I think about 70% of the people who talk on these boards are in the age range of 12-14.
bs by Darth Melkor	Mar 3rd, 2002 05:51:11 PM
You know this site is the one and only place that this stupid rivalry even exists. Try other sites and you'll know. And on those sites they make fun of all the losers at AICN who waste their time fussing. One movie takes place in space. One is thousands of years ago. One they use lightsabers and blasters. One they use swords and bows. One they get around on swoop bikes and in spaceships. One they get around on horses and in boats. They're not alike other than the fact that they're trilogies (SW actually being 6 divided into 2 trilogies). Sure they both feature a character at the center of the story who must face choices... Isn't that the basis of almost every movie ever made? Why not bring the Matrix, The Neverending Story, and hell the Die Hard trilogy into this. What about the Rocky series as well. Rocky Balboa had to decide between many things in those movies.. So I guess Sylvester Stallone ripped off Tolkien eh? TPM made a crapload of money. FOTR made a crapload. AOTC will destroy the box office in May... TTT will do the same in December. Nothing anyone on this stupid board says is going to make or break either film or change the way people feel about them.
Maybe by ParamountExec	Mar 3rd, 2002 05:56:01 PM
I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Afterall, it's a review, not a spy report. Most movie or script reviews aren't filled with a lot of spoilers just to prove the person actually saw it or read it. As for the SW/LOTR horseshit, it's just so junior high. You children need to try to figure out why you feel the need to bash one movie to make yourselves feel better about being a fan of another. Then grow up and knock it off.
Hey by Darth Melkor	Mar 3rd, 2002 06:08:00 PM
Are you really a Paramount Exec? Cause if you are I have this great idea for a movie.
Will AOTC match Lucas' best work... by Yojimbo Jones	Mar 3rd, 2002 06:24:34 PM
...like Willow...? That's the question. Best piece of writing Lucas ever did, but probably a bit too high-brow for the average SW fanboy. Still, it's of a piece as far as the Lucas ouevre goes -- C3PO, Ewoks, Jar Jar, Brownies -- the widdle ones love that shit, and Georgy-Boy loves servin' it up. Thank god for Lucas, you can set the babies in front of his videos while you're doin' the dishes, barbeque, washing the car etc., no doubt he's good for some things, namely baby-sitting. Nice romps, but not to be taken seriously by _anyone_ over the age of seven. Listen, I ain't complaining, I apprecaite what GL does for the kids. Let's hope AOTC is just as dumbed-down as Caillou and Tubbies, like ROTJ and TPM were, so my 3-y-o's can have something to amuse themselves with for the next 5 years.
I for one, hope the fighting never ends! by Aquafresh	Mar 3rd, 2002 07:18:39 PM
Long live this collossally retarded SW/LOTR feud. Never has a war of nerdom raged with such fury. I think its beautiful that people that otherwise have everything in common will go to the grave hating each other because one group prefers swords and the other prefers lasers. It serves as a perfect mirror to the bigger, real conflicts this world faces. I'm just glad that Ive had enough sex in my life so as to not feel the need to get involved.
Ocho by Darth Melkor	Mar 3rd, 2002 09:02:15 PM
Don't worry it never will end. Even when Episode III comes out, 2 years after ROTK, this will still be going on. Maybe we could convince fans of Star Trek, The Matrix and X-Men to join in and we can have a real "Battle of Five Armies."
War of the Trilogies!!! by Ok_Terrific	Mar 3rd, 2002 09:37:33 PM
I'll take "The Godfather" against SW and LOTR in a handicapped steel cage match. NINE MOVIES ENTER - ONLY ONE WILL LEAVE!!!
Oats by Darth Melkor	Mar 3rd, 2002 09:51:39 PM
It's next weekend that they're showing it. The 10th.
Hey, Mark Twain, as long as you're doing your weird math by Renata	Mar 3rd, 2002 10:13:24 PM
Where does Gone With the Wind place? My research shows that all box office figures were adjusted for inflation and GWTW mopped the floor with everything. Wherever you get your "LOTR will make $1billion easy" nonsense, please tell me. The crack must be good there. By the way, loved the Ken Burns doc on you.
Hey, guys! by Phil S.	Mar 3rd, 2002 10:17:30 PM
Hey fellas, which do you think is more super-neato? The Pod Race? Quidditch? Or how 'bout elves? What is your opinion of the Subterranean Land of Grogolmorsh, where the wicked Lobdelgoff of Jerimiad casts his evil spells on the gentle folk from the Land of Plesherpoo? I think his magic sword is wicked cool!!! I also like anything with ray guns! BLAM! ZAP! POW! I think it's super-duper cool when a spaceship fires a deathray at an elf on a broomstick! Did I mention that I've never advanced beyond the mental age of 8? That I take comic books seriously? That I'm a 35-year-old virgin? That I have the mind-blowing effrontery to call myself a "movie fan"? Wheeeeeee! Super-duper cool neato elves and wizards and ewoks and rayguns!!! AWESOME!
Thanks Phil. by Sea Bass	Mar 3rd, 2002 11:26:34 PM
But there's nothing wrong with being a fan of sci-fi or fantasy movies. The problem comes when you use your fandom as some kind of identity and rip on other films of a similar genre. Star Wars has gungans and ewoks. LOTR has midgets with big furry feet, femmy elves and gay wizards. Neither side has a right to talk like they're superior in the cool department.
Ok, I want in! by Aquafresh	Mar 3rd, 2002 11:39:50 PM
So, does this have to be "war of the trilogies" or does any franchise qualify for entry? I personally want to sponsor the "Alien" franchise. Technically, while not a trilogy, the last two really only count for one movie 'cause they both half stunk. I'll put my 'newborn' up against your lurtz, and raise you a legolas. The winner will be pronounced "nerd overlord" of the internet and be imortalized as such in the new addition of "Dieties and Demigods". C'mon dorks! THROW DOWN!!!
AOTC is going to bring a GRAVITAS to the prequels. by sparticusmaximus	Mar 3rd, 2002 11:58:45 PM
The reason Moriarty was a little shocked by Lucas' execution of TPM's script, was that when he originally read it, he probably imagined a more adult tone. Imagine reading that same script, seeing a tone similar to ESB....TPM would seem like a completely different movie!!!!..................... .. But because TPM was a story taking place at the time of little innocent Annie and the Galaxy seemingly at peace, the surface tone reflected that...........AOTC rips it all wide open, and brings a depth and emotional grandeur to the tale. Anakin is on the cusp of adulthood....Complex character....confused, conflicted, rash. The galaxy is on the verge of a raging civil war. The tale is ripe for serious drama in the SW tradition. And not only that. It's depth will create a synergy with TPM's surface lightness. We will understand that everything that goes wrong in the galaxy, was all planted in EP1. TPM wasn't really a kid's film. More like an adult story.....from a child's POV. AOTC will not be seen from a light/child-like POV. And that's not because GL caved into some fanboy woes.......It's the nature of the story, he has set up for himself. THAT WILL BE THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE between the two films. Mark my words....come MAY 16.
Nah by Sea Bass	Mar 4th, 2002 12:11:56 AM
The problems that everyone had with TPM...Jar Jar, the poo and fart jokes, "Yipeee!", the lack of a real solid villian, limited screen time for Maul, the SUPPOSED plot holes...all of that was in the script. He shoud have picked up on it at the script level. I happen to like TPM and think it's a lot deeper than most give it credit for (deeper than a midget with a ring running from the bad guys, but I'm not going to get into that rivalry bullshit) but all of the problems that everyone had with the film were right in the script fora ll to see. I've read the AOTC script and none of that is in this film. There are actually very few variables this time. Based on the trailers, the acting seems good and the FX are better than TPM. I really think even the TPM bashers will like this one. Of course they won't admit it even if they do because of this SW/LOTR horseshit.
Spoilers and Script by Genie15	Mar 4th, 2002 12:35:21 AM
If you want the scene by scene on Episode 2, not a hoax, then go to www.SWMovies.net. You can choose either scene by scene or anything else. The scene by scene only goes up to the Geonesis arena battle, but there are more links for more on the scenes.
Box office by holoholojoe	Mar 4th, 2002 01:02:42 AM
according to the figures at------ http://us.imdb.com/Charts/usat opmovies.html----------- SW did 460mil, EP1 did 431, what did LOTR do? currently, they are still on around 300 mil, forget all the rest of "adjusted for inflations" and what not, you honestly believe LOTR will make another 131 mil domestically just to be on the same level as EP1? forget the EP4. and btw, if you look at the box office when EP4 was first released, the ticket price were less then, and if you take that into consideration and do the math, you will see that there's actually MORE folks that saw EP4 when it was orignally released than EP1 AND LOTR. do the math, and debate with facts...
but why? by mellow	Mar 4th, 2002 02:21:20 AM
Everybody knows that this is going to be the REAL begining of the SW saga.So why the fuck did Lucas bother making TPM? Anyone who was a fan of the original series, and anyone who caught the re-releases, must have known for certain that Anakin was going to turn rotten, and that his missus was the mother of Luke and Leia.They would surely know that the Jedi were a bretheren of whup ass monks keeping peace in the universe.Surely Lucas was treating us all like fucking idiots with TPM by stating the obvious. Or was it that he had bugger all idea of how to flesh out three films and instead used the TPM as a stopgap? My reasoning for this is that aside from introducing characters in EPI what did it really achieve?The fans wanted to see the darkness from the beginning, not a sci-fi version of the teletubbies.We wanted to see stormtroopers, we wanted to see lightsabers and shit,we wanted to see yoda kick ass, we spaceships.Why was there fuck all space fighting and hyperspace travel?The only decent elements from TPM was killed off.Duh.He could have saved us all the angst and disappointment by making this EPI.That would have given him so much more liscense for the following two movies.Introducing the Falcon and Chewy perhaps?Maybe even giving us a better insight into the Jedi.I am worried that he is only going to pay lip service to the Jedi. I really want to understand what real sacrafice these dudes have to make to protect the universes, not just an implied statement through one line in one movie. And that is probably where this rant concludes. Long term and box office wise, Lucas would have been better served to make this series dark from the start and keep it that way turning up the heat with every film until that helmet is placed over Anakins head. I'm not predicting AOTC to do as much as TPM for the simple fact that Lucas made the worst business decision in Hollywood history. Inhale Exhale.Just Mellow.
Since you asked, Renata by Mark Twain	Mar 4th, 2002 02:41:16 AM
Glad you liked the Ken Burns documentary,it's one of my personal faves, although he missed a few particulars I would've liked to see included. Okay,here's a resource to start www.worldwideboxoffice.com. FOTR is currently number 8 and will easily climb further up the charts. I see an easy billion after the oscars and rereleases, plus the foreign take in markets yet unaccounted for. As to where GWTW ranks, I have no idea. That would require a little bit of effort to put together. My point was that I'm tired of the inaccurate "adjusted for inflation" statement being thrown around incorrectly. I'll even add to that thosewho look solely at North American box office takes. A truer measure of a film's universal appeal is the worldwide take and . . . well, check the linkand see fer yerself.
a summary of SWvsLOTR by Jabberwockie	Mar 4th, 2002 03:28:55 AM
If you guys spent as much time showering and putting on deoderant and leaving your computer to go and find a girlfriend or some actual human interaction, then maybe this wouldn't seem as big of a deal as you think it is. WHO CARES! They're just movies, they're good movies.. but FUCK
Ticket Sales by DarthZachToo	Mar 4th, 2002 04:48:26 AM
I've always heard they calculated the adjusted take by taking how many tickets were sold and multiplying that number by today's average ticket price. Seems like reasonable way to do it. If not, then just compare how many tickets were sold. GWTW has sold 198 million tickets in the U.S. alone and Star Wars IV something like 176 million. To get this into perspective, today's $100 million films sell around 20 million tickets.
Moriarty, what everyone REALLY wants to know... by DropKickMurphy	Mar 4th, 2002 06:13:51 AM
Is when SPOOF EPISODE II:Attack Of The Wing Dings is coming out. You were brilliant in that flick.
EVERY ASPECT OF TPM WILL BE EXPANDED UPON BY AOTC. by sparticusmaximus	Mar 4th, 2002 12:32:40 PM
Mellow: Don't be so presumptuous. Firstly, AOTC doesn't make a lick of sense without TPM.....and that's beyond just the characters. There is tons of stuff being expanded upon in this sequel. And these are things we weren't supposed to be thinking about in TPM, because that film was always designed to be taken as a self-inclosed episode. Not just the set-up to the prequel/saga (which of course it is hundredfold). Now........although TPM might have been lacking the "entertainment value" of the OT (ie:lack of tension, no war, no dominating villain, lack of edge), it was not without purpose....................... Firstly, think of TPM as the CALM BEFORE THE STORM. Kind of like the SHIRE moments in LOTR, but for a whole movie, until........the RETURN OF THE SITH (The Maul battle).................Now imagine a whole film with the tension level of that Maul battle......A WHOLE frickin' FILM!...........In retrospect, only when you've already experienced how EPIC Lucas is going with this story (FALL OF THE REPUBLIC, DEATH OF THE JEDI, FALL OF ANAKIN SKYWALKER), will the lack of tension in TPM, not be seen as disappointing.........It will no longer have the burden of being the "first SW film in 16 years", with SW fanboys antsy for a SW film, that equals or surpasses the EPIC raging battle/tension between Good and evil, which the OT had.......................In many ways, TPM was in a shitty position, being the SW film with the most anticipation EVER.........................O f course it would be deflating if you expected EPIC. But I kind of like the fact that AOTC is an "underdog". Like I said earlier, AOTC puts the EPIC WAR back in the SW mythos.....nuff said.
box office by minderbinder	Mar 4th, 2002 03:15:30 PM
"Wherever you get your "LOTR will make $1billion easy" nonsense, please tell me." Well, it's made about $730 million worldwide already. And it hasn't even come out yet in Japan, there's another $100M easy. (PS, Harry Potter has passed ALL the SW movies at the worldwide box office...now we'll have all the "box office means nothing" apologists...) And maximus, give it a rest...nobody cares about your "the clock is ticking" crap.
THE CLOCK IS TICKING.............. by sparticusmaximus	Mar 4th, 2002 03:53:43 PM
Not much longer now.
New Episode II trailer! by IAmLegolas	Mar 4th, 2002 04:04:08 PM
http://download.theforce.net/v ideo/SNL-ep2-nsync.rm
Bluntsaber by Darth Melkor	Mar 4th, 2002 04:09:00 PM
Has anyone else noticed that Dooku's lightsaber looks just like the bluntsaber from Jay and Silent Bob? And IAMLEGOLAS please post the link to the SNL video again... I don't think everybody saw it the last several times you posted it.
What the hell? by badbadborg	Mar 4th, 2002 04:21:48 PM
I'm sitting here, reading this crap, in complete stunned awe. Do you guys have anything else in your lives better to do than to argue about these 2 and half hour toy commercials you call Star Wars? Or bitch about some wackball, hollywood-ized version of a fantasy book written 50 years ago? Or complain about which one is better??? You gotta be shittn' me. Do any of you actually make more than $30,000 a year? Do any of you weigh under 200 pounds? Are any of you not virgins? My recommendation: De-tach your dicks from your keyboards and, god forbid, go out and do something constructive with your lives. Shit.
Minderbinder by Renata	Mar 4th, 2002 05:35:08 PM
So Harry Potter has made more domestically and worldwide than Lord of the Crap? Right? So is it a better movie? According to you, money is the measuring stick. Guess you think Harry Potter is a better film. We reach!
Not trying to be snippy Dolphin by Mark Twain	Mar 4th, 2002 06:31:20 PM
butit looks like you missed my earlier post. FOTR is already at #8, past Home Alone and The Sixth Sense. Here's the link again: www.worldwideboxoffice.com. And I'll say again, this is not any argument for merits of FOTR, I just like it when people get the facts right. I also like Star Wars, if that's relevent (which it shouldn't be).
What Are We Going To Do After May 2005? by jollydwarf	Mar 4th, 2002 06:49:33 PM
It'll all be over. No more LOTR vs. SW EP I-VI vs. Matrix. Guys, enjoy this shit NOW. I mean really, what franchises will be available four or five years from now? Those three will be finished, Bond may or may not be done, Star Trek should've BEEN done after Six, and Batman, Spiderman, the X-Men, the Hulk and Daredevil will all have been brought to the big screen at least once. Hell, Kevin Smith will probably be long removed from what made him who he is. Harry Potter probably will have run out of steam by '06 (you really don't think kids are going to be amped about Hogwarts for more than another picture or two, do you?). The only big event film that I can realistically think of at that point would be Indy IV. And I flinch as I type that. These next three years could very well be looked at as the Fanboy Golden Age. For my money, from Blade II on, it's going to be a feast. Sure, there will be disappointments, but, you know, at least that means that there were expectations. Oh, and by the way, Moriarty, why would you rave about this script and then put the links to your Episode I trailer and script reviews? Is that your way of saying "Hey! I could be wrong! My analysis ultimately means nothing!" That's what I get out of it. Not that I was going to hold you to it or anything. It just doesn't instill the reader of all three with the confidence in AOTC that you were probably trying to generate. Finally, I saw those new Episode II pics. At the risk of nitpicking, I gotta say that CGI Yoda doesn't look that real in close-up still shots. And I can't wait to see what must happen in the climatic lightsaber duel (which I know little about), as Anakin has now been seen with a.) just a blue lightsaber, b.) just a green one and c.) both at the same time. Plus, all the promo pics show Dooku with his pseudo-bluntsaber (red). But then there's the pictures of him with a (look away if you don't want to know...5...4... 3...2...1...) red and blue one. But then we see Anakin in the trailers dueling him blue vs. red. What the hell is going on? P.S. I wouldn't read too much into Mace's purple blade. I know G-Lu says that the good guys have blue and green, but I think it's Plo Koon who has a yellow one. So anything outside of red could be a Jedi color. We'll see.
ATTACK SCRIPT by MattHooper	Mar 4th, 2002 08:46:38 PM
My hopes are higher now .... Don't let me down George; I got your back.
Because there's no new news by Billy Talent	Mar 4th, 2002 09:47:26 PM
I'd read the novelization of 'The Phantom menace' before I saw the film, so I had a pretty good idea what to expect. It seemed a little short on drama, Jar Jar seemed potentially irritating, Darth Maul didn't have a whole lot to do, etc. If you go back and look at the trailers, most of which I was able to avoid, you can pretty well see what's coming. As it happened, Jar Jar was much worse than I'd anticipated, some of the alien creatures seemed like thinly veiled ethnic stereotypes, there were bits of "comedy" not mentioned in the book, there was an appaling child performance, and there were also some astonishing visuals I'd in no way been prepared for. Now, from what I know of 'AotC', pretty well the entire story, everything about it seems very cool. I hadn't previously heard this angle on Jar Jar, and it seems a little worrisome. I'd hoped he would be trotted out for continuity's sake, and quickly relegated to the background. But if character's boo and hiss his entrance and he's set up for a Poochie-like demise, a stupid 'Let's have N'Sync blast Jar Jar to make the fans squeal' that could suck worse than a two headed alien sports commentator. At this point he's a senator, and he might not be so bad if he's a more dignified, less clumsy, and much less prominent character. But if fan derision is turned into some sort of an in-joke, I'll be really disappointed. George, if you're reading, 'Star Wars' is not the place for cheap self referential pop irony. One 'Spaceballs' is enough.
George, he didn't mean it. by DouglasAH	Mar 4th, 2002 11:39:25 PM
Don't listen to him. We all want to see Joe Pesci put Jar Jar's head in a vise and pop his eye out, but we'll settle for the Senate pelting him with Mentos and booing him back to Gunga City.
More SW pictures... by drompter	Mar 5th, 2002 12:38:32 AM
http://www.mesta.net/leffat/uu tiset/?aid=4742.
FUCK A.O.T.C. I WANT TO SEE THE TWO TOWERS! by TPMSUCKED	Mar 5th, 2002 05:46:13 PM
ENOUGH SAID!
Fuck you TPMSUCKED you troll by matrix_sux	Mar 12th, 2002 12:35:03 PM

I'm sorry... by AgentArchangel	Aug 15th, 2008 08:59:20 AM
...this is even funnier/more tragic reading after knowing the result of AOTC, which was the worst of the prequels. How I wish I could have seen your versions, Moriarty.
Aha. by ByTor	Aug 15th, 2008 03:44:23 PM
Well I disagree with AgentArchangel (I still think TPM was the worst), but overall...yeah. "Strong romantic subplot" indeed. Yikes.

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