Ahoy, squirts! Quint here with a little interview I did with the director of the New Zealand horror comedy, BLACK SHEEP, a man by the name of Jonathan King.
I met King during one of my trips to New Zealand. He was editing this film at Park Road Post, the lovely post production facility in Wellington. He struck me as a very cool guy then, someone in love with making films, especially a film like BLACK SHEEP, with killer animals, crazy hippies and even some lycanthropy… or probatanthropy if you will.
I caught up with him at SXSW where he was showing his flick to talk a little bit about working with Weta Workshop and within the New Zealand film community.
Here’s the chat! Enjoy!
Quint: Leading up to the movie, all the press was focused on Weta’s involvement. Considering people haven’t gotten to see them do a fun gore flick since Peter [Jackson]’s early stuff, how valuable was it for you to have them onboard?
Jonathan King: Well, they were an obvious sort of first port of call for us, because I’m in Wellington and they are too. So we kind of always felt… we always knew that we wanted Weta to do the film and we always knew that it would kind of live or die on whether you’re going to buy the effects and stuff. And there are a lot of people, I’m sure it’s probably the same in the US, people like “Oh yeah, I can do effects…” and you see the movie and they’re terrible.
They think just something on screen is enough. “We showed up…” So, we saw Weta pretty early on, they were on KING KONG at the time and Richard [Taylor] said, “I love it, we want to be involved,” which is amazing and then the next thing he said was, “You haven’t got enough money,” and we were like “Oh, ok.” So that helped first of all get the film up, because we had people saying “How’re you gonna do it?” We said, “We got Weta Workshop involved” and then its like “Oh, OK, cool.” So it gave people confidence that the film, the story was gonna work off the page, and they kind of became our star name in a way, because horror movies don’t have kind of names in them, but they have an element that you can attach. So they started getting the idea that people dug (the story) and Weta were involved, so it was amazing for us.
Then actually making the film, they brought so much imagination and fun and to it, which was great.
Quint: So did the story or any specific parts of the story radically change when you met with the design team?
Jonathan King: Nothing really changed a lot, you know. It was great having a process where things kind of got better. There’s some concept art we did a lot of in quite a loose way and just trying stuff out, like images and moments and there was concept art for just a frame of the film or… there was one which was the effects with what our weresheep’s gonna look like and then we kind of chose that and that was taken into a sculpted maquette.
That went on until building the creature itself. Then, as you start to build, it it’s like, “Well its legs can’t be that spindly… or that’s gonna happen or that’s gonna happen…” So that kind of evolved like that and as it evolved you discover some of the physical limitations.
I would sort of evolve my battle plan as I went a little bit. When you’re writing a script, it’s like you’re writing the most awesome (scene), “… and then the weresheep jumps on the table and does that…” which is all very well to write, but you got to shoot on limited time and resources.
So I did… to be honest, I did kind of compromise. When you’re making a film you don’t want to compromise, so you compromise so you don’t feel like you’re compromising. You don’t want to be thinking “Aw, man, I just saw the cheap version of that.” You try and play to the strengths of what you’ve got.
Quint: Did you visit the workshop while they were making your creatures?
Jonathan King: That was amazing, yeah, and to be in that workshop [Weta Workshop] and there’s all that stuff on the walls and those places with all the head casts and stuff and um, that was one of the main rooms we were kind of working in and as a geek, it’s fun to just go through and then have them in there, working on my stuff, was amazing and you know sculpting stuff and you know, punching in the hairs one by one into the sheep’s face and stuff oh yeah, it was super cool.
Quint: Did you work with Gino Acevedo at all?
Jonathan King: Yeah, Gino painted a lot airbrush and finishing on some of the make up and stuff yeah, which was great. He’s a great guy and his partner, Liz [Mullane], is our casting director too so, it really kind of felt like a… there’s a community of people who I felt very fortunate to be able to be able to tap into.
Quint: Yeah, I love those guys down there. It’s great to have people that are that professional and that talented, but also can get so excited about doing a killer sheep movie.
Jonathan King: Exactly, well that was what was awesome for me. That kind of level of enthusiasm and level of professional excitement… It’s not like, “Well this a little job…,” you know? “I got bigger fish to fry…” It was so great and we had people doing their best work, giving their best ideas and hard work on my movie… it was amazing yeah…
Quint: Did you cast mostly outside of New Zealand or was it all local?
Jonathan King: They were all New Zealanders. Henry, Experience, and Tucker, the three young heroes, they were all out of Wellington. We looked nationally, but they all happened to be out of Wellington. And the old lady was from a place called Wairarapa, which is up an hour north. She had basically retired.
We had seen all these old women and they were terrible. Then Liz Mullane said, “Well we’ll get a couple of them back in for another look,” and I was “Oh God… OK…”
And she said, “Well there’s this person and she’s in Paris, we’ll get her in.” She kind of hustled into the room and I was like “Oh God, please let her be like that on camera!” We rolled camera and she was amazing.
She was in BRAINDEAD, actually. She’s Nora Matheson from the Wellington Lady’s Woman League or whatever… yeah… but she’s like seventy three now or something and she came and she’s just incredible.
Then I had to deal with some other people for the rest of the afternoon and was like “Yep… thank you…good… thanks… next…”
Quint: Did you find the actors were excited to be part of a goofy horror comedy or was there anybody that felt it was too extreme?
Jonathan King: Yeah, I mean, I think at the end of the day actors in New Zealand are just pleased to be in a movie, I think. In fact, Oliver [Driver], who plays the hippy guy… we went to Toronto and people were like “Why did you decide to do this film?” and he’s like “ehh… because I got offered the job?”
But it was a lot of fun, a great sort of feeling on the set that we were making something different. Even if it would of worked or not, we felt like we were making something different and I think they kind of had to put faith in the fact that it was going to be able to work, because they could be kind of exposed, they could have looked really stupid if it just didn’t come off. But because they had faith and they gave 100% of belief that it would work and believe… ya know, they kind of tuned in to how I wanted it to be played and I think it does kind of come off and so it feels good, yeah.
Quint: Well, you mentioned BRAINDEAD earlier. Obviously, you can’t live in Wellington and want to make a horror comedy without…
Jonathan King: Yeah, yeah…
Quint: … feeling that influence. Is there anything else that you sort of pulled from?
Jonathan King: Yeah definitely, I think DAWN OF THE DEAD and EVIL DEAD were big inspirations for me too, just that kind of tone. I always felt there had to be those gut bubbling moments and intestine-stretching, stuff like that gore.
AN AMERICAN WEREWOLF IN LONDON was a big one for tone and it’s an amazing thing that there hasn’t been more like it. Because before SHAUN OF THE DEAD… We were in preproduction development for a year and a half even before SHAUN OF THE DEAD appeared and you would say, “Oh, comedy and horror?” and some people would say, “comedy and horror… can they go together?” and I was like “yeah, of course.” I had mentioned AN AMERICAN WEREWOLF, but it’s amazing that there hasn’t been a lot in subsequent time that kind of puts those things together successfully, I might add.
Quint: Yeah, that’s a really delicate thing, a tough balance. Most of the horror comedies that have been tried fall flat. Comedy and horror are very closely tied… even in the scariest movies… you laugh after you scream or jump. Sometimes these horror comedies start off serious, like the first EVIL DEAD was a real horror movie, but had some comedy. It wasn’t until the later ones…
Jonathan King: The second one… I remember watching the second one the first time I saw it and about halfway through it, it’s like “this is a really funny film…” ya know? It’s so on that edge of… like over the top, but it’s very fun.
Quint: Well yeah, the Stooges influence, which is so much more in the forefront in ARMY OF DARKNESS, is there stronger in EVIL DEAD 2.
Jonathan King: As a filmmaker I’ve even looked at things like THE BIRDS and JAWS and JURASSIC PARK and stuff to see how to make that stuff kind of play.
You know I learned a lot about scares. In fact, scares are harder than I thought they would be. I kind of thought they would take care of themselves, but it made me realize you’ve got to really want to go there to make that stuff work. Anyone can make jumps, it’s not a hard thing to do, in fact, and gore, gore is great fun, but scares are a whole… down a whole different wing of the house kind of thing.
Quint: Yeah, and there’s a whole latticework you kind of have to build to execute it well. I mean, you can gross anybody out with a big puddle of blood with chunks in it, but it’s another thing entirely to make somebody genuinely frightened. The thing is, the people need to feel like they’re there.
Jonathan King: There were screamers in the audience last night… it was amazing.
Quint: So, seeing it play for an American audience… has that been any different than watching it with a New Zealand audience? The movie is so New Zealand.
Jonathan King: Yeah, well I haven’t really seen it with a New Zealand audience in fact. They’re those kind of informal screenings that we did that you were at, and I’ve had two cast and crew screenings, which have been great. The cast and crew…they’re on board much more than an audience.
But no, basically the reaction… I’ve played Toronto… then I’ve been to Spain, and the Sebastion Horror Festival and a festival in France just about a month ago, and then here. Funnily enough, even when translated, you know subtitles in those other countries, people are laughing at the same things really, which is amazing.
Once you get on board with the ride, then the fun stop is kind of the same. There are probably little moments that I think New Zealanders will laugh at that the rest of the world might not… there’s quite specific New Zealand kind of phrases, like “Rattle your dags…” and Tucker the farm hand speaks Maori a few times, which I think will get a reaction in New Zealand.
Quint: I remember I had seen BAD TASTE before I had ever gone to New Zealand and I re-watched it after having spent some time there and it was like watching a comedy as a kid and missing that certain level of jokes, the innuendos and whatnot. There’s a bit after the Bastards land where the guys are talking about standing up to the aliens…“If they get out here, where are they going next? Queenstown? Wellington? Auckland?” And they’re “ehh, that wouldn’t be so bad…” It’s an extra layer, but it doesn’t really matter if you don’t get that joke. The movie isn’t contingent on it.
Jonathan King: Yeah, but at the end of the day, the best films are ones that are specific to where they come from, you know? If you make something so generic and so bland, that it… I got to play with quite specific New Zealand things in a quite unselfconscious way, it’s not like “Oh, this film is about being in New Zealand…”
Quint: And to throw that in a movie with men turning into sheep…
Jonathan King: Exactly yeah [laughs]
Quint: What’s next for you with the movie? Where do you go from here?
Jonathan King: Well I’m in New Zealand in two or three weeks, which I’m really excited about and that will be great to see it with New Zealand audiences. Hopefully at home it will do well. And then Australia’s probably shortly after and then the USA. June 22nd in theaters, so…
Quint: Who’s putting it out?
Jonathan King: IFC and then the Weinstein Company is doing the DVD after that. So yeah, American audiences will get a chance to see it. Go out on the first weekend and see it, please!
Quint: Are they giving it a pretty decent release? Or is it a limited thing to start with?
Jonathan King: I think to be honest, it will be relatively limited, but in the right places I hope and I think if people go and enjoy it and tell people about it, then it will run pretty good, yeah.
Quint: Do you have anything planned after this? You just gonna take a break or…
Jonathan King: No, I want to make a movie again as quick as I can really. That’s what I’ve been working to do for a long time, is to make a movie and that’s almost over, so I want to go back to some things I had been doing, so yeah I’ve got a new project I’m just trying to get going which I’m working on with a friend.
Quint: You seem to really like this genre… is it going to be another genre piece?
Jonathan King: I do, I’d like to expand on that in the next one. I actually would like it to be scarier, more of a scary film, but a more kind of sci-fi with some horror elements and probably fewer laughs, but still a fun ride I hope.
So yeah, I’m not really going to go make action movies and I’m not going to go make sensitive dramas about the human condition… Yeah, I want to make fantastic films that transport you to somewhere else and we talked with Richard already, so I would love to continue that relationship with him, that’s be great.
There it is. Thanks once again to Muldoon for helping me get this interview ready. And thanks to you for reading through it. I’ve got a few more ‘bout to hit the site, so keep your eyes peeled!
-Quint
quint@aintitcool.com
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