Welcome back, folks. Ambush Bug here from AICN Comics, back with part two of my sit down with comic book writer Judd Winick. Publisher: Last time, Judd talked about his inspirations and writing processes. This time, we’re going to get into specifics as Judd talks about his current projects. So let’s get right to it…
BUG: Back to comics, is GREEN ARROW the ultimate wet-dream for the liberal comic writer? Is it cathartic in terms of taking liberal ideals and showing them executed with teeth?
JUDD: Yeah. GREEN ARROW is a book that has a history of dealing with social issues, so that was draw for me. It’s also nice that Ollie gets to really tackle some issues and solve them.
BUG: How would Ollie take on President Bush?
JUDD: Pure, uncut, media spun humiliation. I think Ollie would be the guy to go before the cameras and tell the truth without any fear of political suicide. He doesn’t care. So, he’d let him have it, call him a liar, campaign for impeachment, and probably spend a lot of his own money to uncover some dirt.
BUG: What's your response to the reader who says, "Pipe down with the social causes, Winick! Less agenda, more straight-up entertainment!"
JUDD: Well, I’ll begin with the smart ass answer:
I’ll respond to that reader when I ACTUALLY hear from them and not a hypothetical exchange with a journalist. So there.
Now, to respond to this in a few parts:
1. If you do the math, over my 7 years and change writing mainstream comics, I’ve done a handful of stories that “push”, “discuss”, “examine” some type pf social problem. Really. I’ve done it a couple of times. My stories are mostly been about guys and gals in costumes beating the ever living hell out of one another. THOSE are about 97 percent of the stories I do. Superheroes being superheroes.
2. A portion of my life was in the public eye, meaning my time on the reality TV program THE REAL WORLD. I came away from that as an AIDS educator and a bit of an activist. I did a book about losing a friend to AIDS. These are/were very public events. Because of that, every time I have a story that involves gays, lesbians, or people with AIDS or HIV, it’s immediately assumed that my story telling is a result or direct influence of these events. They are only a part of it. I’ve done a lot of living since being on that show and many other things have happened. I’m proud of my time on the REAL WORLD as I am also saddened by much of the memories. But, do not think that this experience has completely formed my life, or my opinions. There’s a lot more to me, and a lot more to these subjects than that.
3. Let’s be brutally honest. Comic books are made to make money. The people who publish my comics are not doing so for the greater good. It’s a business. If I do a story that has an angle where it can get some mainstream press, they are going to pursue it. In my case, it means tapping into that modicum of fame I have from my days on television. I don’t shy away from it, I enjoy the fact that these stories will reach a wider audience. That being said, I don’t alter, or cater theses stories to be read by the uninitiated. Case in point, the HATE CRIME story line in GREEN LANTERN. There was tremendous amount of hooplah made on this.
Again, I didn’t mind, I participated, I did interviews, the full nine yards. I like that the story was being discussed, I like that the issue of gay hate crimes were being discussed and no real person (just a fictional one) had to suffer a beating to get the subject out there. But if you read that story, you see that it concludes with Kyle Rayner flying into space and having an argument with Hal Jordan/The Spectre. If you wandered into a comic shop and bought GL for the first time and read this, well, you’d see the truth. This was superhero story. They’re all superhero stories.
4. I got about 50 pieces of hate mail(email) when it was announced that Batwoman would be a lesbian. I had no involvement in this.
5. So, in conclusion, I’ll say just this: I DO straight up entertainment, even when social issues are involved, it’s still about guys in tights.
BUG: What's the most politically incorrect thing you believe, say and do?
JUDD: Man, is this like trying to get your pet bird to eat chicken? Let’s see the liberal candy ass say something wrong? I will go on the record that I like the word MIDGET. It’s a funny word, it’s useful in comedy as well as unfortunately insulting an entire community of people who prefer to be called “little people”.
But I like the word. It cracks me up. And in an upcoming issue of my left wing, pinko, candy assed, commie comic book GREEN ARROW, the word “midget” is debated for 2 pages. Then a lot of things get blown up.
And a final word or two about “political correctness” and my standing as a tolerant person. I think “Political correctness” gets a bad rap by the handful of jerk-offs who want their dogs to be called “canine companions” or short people called “vertically challenged”. I don’t give a shit about that stuff. I mostly think we should avoid old language that harkens back to times when people we treated shitty, i.e. Black people are black, or people of color, not “colored people”, or any thing else. Grown women are women, not girls (unless you know them well, and in MY case I usually call a lot of them “baby “, but then again I call a lot of men I know baby. Or fucker, as in “ ’sup, fucker?) And I should add that I am one of the least tolerant people you’ll ever meet. I don’t care about your race, or who you go to bed with, or any of that small change crap. The truth is a great many people piss me off and I choose not to deal with them. I don’t get along at all with boring humorless people or folks with occupations that I have no interest in. This does not make me elitist. I don’t like boring people. That’s where you lose me.
But seriously, taking an extra half second and remember to call Native Americans “Native Americans” instead of Indians is not that big a deal. Indians, as well all know, comes from Columbus looking for India and finding Salvador instead. And after that came small pox, diphtheria and the flu wiping out shit loads of people. And that’s just the diseases. So, give political correctness a rest. It ain’t a problem.
BUG: Green Arrow's got his own "Bat-family" of fellow archers and sidekicks. Any risk of diluting Ollie's uniqueness as an archer-hero, or is it worth it to provide a strong supporting cast?
JUDD: Batman’s family ain’t much of a family. At any given moment any one of them seems to hate the ever breathing guts of the rest of them. Then again, maybe that IS more like a real family. The big difference is that Ollie’s peeps are his peeps. He loves them, he’ll give them hugs and tell them so. It makes him more of what Ollie really is. A loving, hipster, costumed vigilante, liberal, hypocrite, horn dog. His family grounds him and drives him crazy. Just like the rest of us.
BUG: Action scenes are a bit underrepresented in superhero books these days, but you seem very comfortable with 'em (thinking specifically of some of the throw downs in GREEN ARROW and BATMAN). What's your approach to them?
JUDD: I LIKE a good fight. I LIKE it when Superheroes kick ass. I get tagged a lot for having my heroes talk too much. I think I give time to ass kicking and conversation. Christ, look at my children’s show. I have an 11 year old beating the spit out of monsters every episode. I like a good fight.
BUG: Who's the more entertaining maniac to write - Morph or the Duke of Oil?
JUDD: Ah, that’s apples and Volkswagens. Morph was in for the long haul, Duke of Oil was a short trip to whack job town. I love crazy southerners as much as I love a good shape shifter. I miss them both,
BUG: When dealing with company-owned characters, where do you draw the line between being a character's custodian and taking them to a new place?
JUDD: I’m probably the last guy to ask about this. Dan Didio nailed me pretty good when he said “Judd likes to break things. Then he likes to fix them.” I see characters who have so much potential but sometimes they are bogged down with too much reverence that comes from being a golden age character. We seem afraid to change them.
We HAVE to write these heroes with a contemporary feel. That means sometimes, most times, we have to make a departure from the old. In some cases ”the old” is as brief as ten years ago. Times change and style must change with them. If you read Batman in the early eighties you’ll see him walking down the street in the middle of the day chatting up people sitting on their city stoops. It’s practically like he should be swinging a billy club and saying “top of the mornin’ to ya.”
He doesn’t DO that anymore.
That’s an extreme example but it holds true. We have to write characters, who are SO unreal, with some level of reality. So, they’re gonna grow. They’re gonna evolve. They’re gonna change.
BUG: What makes you happy about the comics industry right now?
JUDD: That Batman doesn’t walk down the street in the middle of day and talk to people on city stoops. That , and the fact that EVERYBODY seems to be taking comic a bit more seriously. Us geeks really have inherited the earth.
BUG: What about the comics industry makes you super-pissed?
JUDD: The fact that there are no comics devoted to musical comedies of the 30’s and 40’s.
(I wanna see how that floats around the web)
BUG: Company-wide crossovers - love 'em or hate 'em?
JUDD: Like porn, and cake, if it’s done well, I can’t get enough of ‘em.
BUG: Now that INFINITE CRISIS and ONE YEAR LATER are past, what are your thoughts on the DCU now as compared to the DCU before the crossovers began?
JUDD: I think the DCU finally decided to take a serious look at taking things seriously. To touch upon an earlier point, we set out to tell stories that had weight. I think we succeeded and I think that continues.
BUG: Looking back, would you handle any of your input into the crossovers any differently?
JUDD: No. I was there from the start, and I was happy to be as involved as I was. I am really proud of entire event. We started CRISIS in January of 2004. Seems like a longer time ago for sure…
BUG: These days there's a lot of "kicking down of sandcastles" in comics, where writers are picking apart or destroying a lot of the foundations that have been built around ongoing characters. There seems to be quite a few "Born Again" or "Disassembled"-like stories going on. In your own books, Ollie's Star City was all but destroyed and his family scattered in GREEN ARROW. Same goes for Captain Marvel and the rest of the SHAZAM family. What are your thoughts on this trend? Is it easier to destroy than to build upon?
JUDD: Well, you’re describing 2 things here. One, the literal blowing up of stuff, and the other is the reexamination of character. So, to begin with the first part, I like blowing things up. Too much actually. Shit blows up all the time in my books.
The second is about revamping characters, in my opinion, to make them work better for contemporary readers, and thus tell better stories. In that case, I don’t see it as destroying, I TOTALLY see it as building upon these brilliant and inspired characters. I WANT them to live today, I WANT them to be popular again. And in most cases that means change.
BUG: SHAZAM has a long history of being a kid-friendly hero. In the first issue of TRIALS OF SHAZAM, Captain Marvel saves a bunch of abducted kids from being sacrificed by demons. Are there any fears of alienating long-time fans of Captain Marvel by introducing more adult themes?
JUDD: I hope not because I AM a long time fan.
I’m a cartoonist. That’s how I define myself. Whether I'm writing scripts for TV or comic books, whether I’m drawing or not, I’m a cartoonist. And I love CC Beck and everything he did with MARVEL. TRULY.
But that isn’t the type of book that is being consumed by the mainstream comic book reader. I want the same folks who are picking up SUPERMAN and BATMAN and the X-MEN to pick up SHAZAM. The characters and the concept are rich enough, spirited enough, that it deserves to be taken seriously. Not a SERIOUS comic, but taken seriously. SHAZAM has a gravitas that hasn’t been explored. It should have weight. It should matter.
I’ve gotten some grief for saying that the” Big red Cheese is dead”. The long time fans were uncomfortable that I was going to throw out all the “whimsy” that the book used to have. Well, I’m a comedy writer, and I’m telling you that the “whimsy" won’t work. Not well enough for people to buy enough copies that we get to keep doing the book. And with that, most importantly, shouldn’t we at least TRY a new direction?
Lastly, you know who coined the phrase “the big red cheese?” Marvel’s arch nemesis Dr. Sivana. When you cling to the nickname that the BAD GUY hung on him, you really gotta wonder…
BUG: How are the more fantastical characters like Tawky Tawney, Uncle Marvel, and Hoppy the Marvel Bunny going to fit into this new SHAZAM story?
JUDD: They’re not. It’s a new ball game.
BUG: One of the things that always turned me off of the Marvel Family is the redundancy of the characters. Mary Marvel--Captain Marvel with boobs. Captain Marvel Jr.--Captain Marvel with a limp. Uncle Marvel--Captain Marvel in Depends. What are you going to be doing with these characters to make them distinct and interesting?
JUDD: By getting rid of most them. That’s the simple answer, even if it’s a bit dishonest.
BUG: You seem to be focusing on the magical aspects of SHAZAM in this new miniseries. In the first issue, there are a lot of references to magic and the like. Did you do research in this area or is this purely from your imagination?
JUDD: Both. I love myth, I love folklore, I love mysticism. I try and combine some the old stuff with about 5 tons of new bullshit from me. I’ve gotten a lot of compliments on “naming” magical stuff. I create a bunch of new magical constructs for every episode of Juniper Lee ( the scepter of THIS, the gem stone of THAT, the temple of THOSE GUYS, etc.) and I mostly just construct the words that feel right. And if Juniper’s dog is saying it, how funny it sounds with a Scottish accent.
BUG: Before TRIALS OF SHAZAM, a lot of your work at DC has been grounded in reality, focusing on realistic action rather than fantastical elements. Do you see your work on this title as a shift in your style of storytelling?
JUDD: No, as mentioned my other full time job is JUNIPER LEE. That’s all about the fantastic in the real world. (no puns intended). And just ask a bunch of very grumpy message board folks about GREEN ARROW. It’s loaded with magic.
BUG: Name a dream project in comics.
JUDD: I’m at the point now that I’m doing most of them. I will say that there’s a number of artists I’d love to work with but have never had the chance. I adore Duncan Fegredo, Frank Quitely, Guy Davis, Jim Lee. I’ve known John Cassaday for years and I’d love the day that we could do a book together.
And I think at some point I’d really dig writing a book with my friend Brad Meltzer. What and when that would be, I don’t know…
BUG: Do you have any more "indie" stories to tell or are you happy with sticking with the more mainstream stuff you're doing now?
JUDD: I‘d LOVE to do more indie stuff. But I’ll always want to draw them as well, and that is time I don’t have….
BUG: What about the old rumor of a second BLOOD & WATER mini in the near future?
JUDD: There is a fully completed first script—done—in the can. But Tomm Coker wasn’t able to get involved. Tomm is doing a lot of film work right now. I’m not too keen on someone else drawing it. We’ll see…
BUG: So what's coming up for you in comics?
JUDD: GA, OUTSIDERS, and TRIALS OF SHAZAM.
BUG: Anything outside of comics we should know about you?
JUDD: THE LIFE AND TIMES OF JUNIPER LEE. Every Friday at 9:30pm.
BUG: Next to next to last chance, why should we be buying THE NEW OUTSIDERS?
JUDD: Who the hell calls it the “THE NEW OUTSIDERS?” It’s just OUTSIDERS, baby!
And YEAH, folks should pick it up. VERY big things are afoot, and well, y’know that pinko liberal crap I get tagged for. In the opinions of many, there will be some of that coming up.
BUG: Next to last chance, why should we check out GREEN ARROW?
JUDD: 2 things:
1) A four issue Batman/Green Arrow team up. Bats and GA Vs. Jason Todd, the Red Hood. It’s gonna be kick ass.
2) We are approaching the 75th issue of GA, and a HUGE, massive change is going to occur.
BUG: Last chance, why should we give THE TRIALS OF SHAZAM a shot?
JUDD: Because it’s gonna be SO kick ass. Howard Porter is making this thing a feast for the eyes. Monsters, magic, more lightning than a trailer park in an electrical storm. It’s not your father’s Captain Marvel
BUG: Thank you so much for taking the time for this interview.
JUDD: No, no, good sir. Thanks to you.
