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JAY & SILENT BOB Censored!!
Hey, everyone. "Moriarty" here with some Rumblings From The Lab.
Looks like a fair number of you went to see Kevin Smith's new film this weekend. Some of you enjoyed it. Some of you hated it. Some of you just don't get what the fuss is all about. But at the very least... if you wanted to see it, you were allowed.
Some film fans haven't been so lucky. Check out this story from CAPTAIN SPLENDID, who's stationed off-shore for the time being...
Freeport, Bahamas, August 24th.
Having anticipated 'Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back' for several months, I was happy that it was premiered here at the same time as in the U.S., something that usually only happens with bigger, star-driven releases. (In fact, due to our limited number of screens, you won't see most movies until several months later, when it's released for rental/sale/satellite broadcast.)
So, armed with my wife and friends, we headed down for the late show only to be informed that they would not be showing the film due to the fact that our Bahamas Film Board (I am unsure of the exact naming), our ratings board had decreed that the film should not be allowed to be shown in the Bahamas. Apparently, it came down to one member, who is a nun, who objected to what I can only assume from the trailers is the scene where Jay goes down on a Nun played by Carrie Fisher.
In case anybody's scratching their heads, we are officially a christian country. We're the ones who won't let gay cruises dock at our ports. There is
absolutely no separation of church and state, so I'm not particularly surprised.
HOWEVER...
This is censorship, this is a violation of my human rights, etc...And It is a major bummer.
I've been a big fan since Clerks came out, and was really looking forward to being front and centre, popcorn in hand, to see Kevin, Jason et al finishing
the saga in style. Hell, I had already planned to go see it again tommorow night. Now I'll have to wait till next year and bag a DVD, unless someone has a
spare reel. And a projector.
Anyway, I'm going to get more info on Monday and I will fight this as hard as I can, or at least piss a lot of prudish people. Either way, I'm up for it, and I'll let you guys know how it's going.
Captain Splendid
Good luck, man. Keep us posted.
"Moriarty" out.
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Mo, you're obviously trying to keep the spotlight on that flick! Its first weekend gross was disappointing, and it's expected to disapear very soon. It's too bad because I do like Smith. Oh well.
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Move.
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Aug 27, 2001 5:06:38 AM CDT
what about respecting local custom and evolving "community stand
by eraser_x
this movie wouldn't have been allowed even in the U.S., even by the U.S. Supreme Court, some decades ago, even though the U.S. Constitution was already in existence, then. So, just because it's okay now to show this movie in the U.S. doesn't mean it **has** to be okay everywhere at every time. "Human Rights" my ass. What a typical "ugly American" reaction.
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Fuck you. Seriously, fuck you. Yes, censorship does suck as does encroaching theocracy but you didn't get to see a dick and fart joke movie and you call it a human rights violation. How many times can I say fuck you? What a way to trivialize the real atrocities and human right violations that millions suffer. Ok, Mort. alluded that you are a military man, maybe you're just fuming and just let that slip, or are being ironic. I dunno, maybe I'm just cranky this morning.
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If I lived in the Bahama's,I'm sure that I could find other things to do.
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Aug 27, 2001 5:13:05 AM CDT
okay, if the complainer were complaining about his own country,
by eraser_x
I take back what I said about his/her reaction being typical of an "ugly American". I say this because I just re-read the article, and **Moriarty** is the only one who said that the complainer is "stationed off-shore for the time being", which led me to assume the complainer wasn't complaining about his own country. However, if **Moriarty** had actually pulled that little tidbit "stationed off-shore" out of thin air, and the complainer was complaining about his own country, then I can't really fault that.
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Hell yeah. Fight this censorship bullshit! The cencorship board has no right to tell peple what they can and cannot see simply because someone with a 10' rod up their ass doesnt like it. To all you censors out there..IF YOU DONT LIKE IT DONT WATCH IT!!!! It really is that simple! Oh and one more thing..FUCK YOU YOU COMMUNIST PIECES OF SHIT! Now...a little off topic here. I saw J&SBSB friday night but I apparently missed a few cameos. Can someone please point them out or tell me if they were cut from the final release. I could not identify Joe Quesada (marvel editor in chief) or Paul Dini (Batman TAS:ROTJ writer). Thanks...and snootchie bootchies.
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Perhaps they banned J&SBSB not for moral or religious content, but because it is such horrible, horrible film. =)
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Did you fall down the stairs this morning? I'm not familiar with the laws of the Bahamas but if the government allows censorship than they do have a right to censor J&SBSB. Canada has a every right to disallow hate speech, England their "video nasties," and France and Germany can refuse Nazi memorabilia in their nations. US law is not universal, and prior to contrary belief the world does not revolve around the US. Does this mean the Bahamas is right to do this? No, I think it sucks, but they do have the right to censor it.***** By the way Joe Quesada was the pizza delivery boy at the diamond thieves house, and I couldn't find Mr. Dini, but I've only seen his picture a few times anyway.
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"...who's stationed off-shore for the time being..."
This means he's in the military...he CAN'T move. It's not as simple as that! -
"seperation of church and state"???? Hey flash, that only applies to America. Last time I checked, the Bahamas were not under the US constitution.
"Human Rights".....BLAWWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! -
Although I don't think its much of a big deal, it does suck when stuff like this happens. But its not the end of the world. It would be worse if they showed it, but edited out the offending scene - that is censorship and bastardization of art (leaving aside all quesitons of whether a Kevin Smith film is art - all film is art - if it was Jean Luc-Godard doing a film of dick and fart jokes, nobody would question whether it was art). And of course, we all know where that practice runs rampant - the good ole USofA!! Of course, like most things, the Americans have decided to privatize censorship - so now Blockbuster can edit films for content, along with TV stations And ask yourself this - if the ratings board has a legitimate rating called NC-17, but no theatres will show NC-17 films, isn't that a form of censorship? ------------------ AND FINALLY - A human rights violation doesn't have to be putting bamboo shoots under the fingernails of political dissidents. It can be refusing to validate a driver's license because the patron is a Serb living in Croatia. It can be refusing to employ someone because of their ethnicity. It can be the police harrasing someone because of race. But no, not allowing a film to be shown is NOT a human rights violation. Oh and I liked the movie - it was disappointing - what with the jewel thievery and whatnot, but I still liked it.
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I'm an expat American who has been living in Korea for 4 years. I may or may not get to see JSB, largely due to the fact that to be shown in Korea, a Hollywood film depends whether or not an actor is hot, or if the grosses in the US are large. But this doesn't matter right now. The subject at hand is "local customs" as an excuse to censor. Here in Korea, the censors grab at EVERYTHING in a movie, but thanks to European objections, that's largely ended (Luc Besson refused to open any of his films here after they ripped apart 5th Element...the problem was rectified.) However, in this semi-Victorian moral state, the censors will take out nudity (yet Korea has a HUGE soft-core porn industry), any references to drugs (Pulp Fiction was missing a good 20 minutes...if anyone wants to see how badly they chopped it, let me know and I'll buy a copy), and often translate Fuck or Motherfucker to a generic korean curse roughly equivalent to "damn." Just protecting their people, right? Well, then, you'll be glad to know that you can see Scream, I Know What You Did, the Friday the 13th films, and many other horror flicks in their eviscerating glory. SO, dear reader, what I'm saying is that "local standards" are a terrible excuse for censorship of any kind. I can't see any tits, I can't watch Travolta shoot up, but I can watch Brandy get slashed to pieces in technicolor...what's wrong with this picture? (All the above having been said, however, things have been changing for the better over the past two years, when Lies finally got a theatrical release and they instituted an age-related rating system, not unlike the one used in the UK.) Hope this was coherent.
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Yeah, it sucks that this guy can't see the movie in the Bahamas, but it isn't such a big friggin deal. If he wants to see it, he will eventually see it There are people in the states that live in towns with a single venue that won't be carrying this flick, boohoo. If he needs to see it now and on the big screen, hop on a puddle jumper, fly to FL, and catch it at the cineplex nearest the airport. That should take care of your 'right' to see the movie. If his tale is accurate, I do agree that it sucks and is complete BS that one person can get a film banned from the island because it offends his/her sensibilites. I recommend retaliating by campaigning to get 'offensive' movies banned from the island, like SUMMER CATCH. Have fun. Snoogans.
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I think this word gets thrown around way too freely sometimes. To me, censorship is when the government says 'You cannot make this movie or we will throw you in jail; you cannot watch or own this movie or we will throw you in jail.' Now granted, the Bahamas ratings board's decision not to exhibit 'J&SBSB' can be read as 'suppression in whole or in part.' But it IS their call to make. I didn't say it was a SMART call or a PLEASANT call. But it's their country, man, their rules. You can say this while in no way supporting true censorship. Now if this had happened in America, it would've been a little eye-opening. But it does happen in America anyway. Look at the number of books that get challenged or banned in schools and libraries every year -- 'The Chocolate War' has yet to single-handedly kill anyone as far as I know, yet it's still in the top 5 most banned books. Personally I'd be more worried about institutionalized corporate censorship, the kind of suppression that denies us the truth in our news, hypes the already-popular (or the chosen anointed new stars) while talented unknowns eat ketchup sandwiches until they give it up and get a janitor job at a regional theater, and...and...fuck, I totally lost my thread....You possibly see my point though....I'm more concerned about the movies we never see because the studios kill them at the script stage, than about 'J&SBSB' not being shown in one country. On a related note, I wish the ratings board in America had suppressed 'Ghosts of Mars' so I wouldn't have had to endure it this weekend. Man, what a peanut-filled loaf that was.
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damn nuns!!!!
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censorship is censorship you idiots. regardless of your idiotic opinions on the movie and the man behind the movie this is ridiculous. if it was american pie 2 being attacked you'd all be up in arms but because it's a kevin smith movie it's ok to trivialize the fact that this man can't pay to see the movie of his choice. i paid to see it, why shouldn't he. letting your opinion of the movie, or where this man lives, is just plain ignorance. who cares if he wants to see blair witch 9:the stinkening- go for it.
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even if we assume that the bahamas had a carbon-copy US constitution, your human rights still wouldn't be violated. when you are brutally slaughtered by your government for worshipping god, or for disagreeing with them, then your human rights are violated. under the US constitution, this falls under civil liberties. and besides, this kind of stuff goes on all the time in the US; they just call it pornography, which evidently justifies censorship. what a world.
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even if we assume that the bahamas had a carbon-copy US constitution, your human rights still wouldn't be violated. when you are brutally slaughtered by your government for worshipping god, or for disagreeing with them, then your human rights are violated. under the US constitution, this falls under civil liberties. and besides, this kind of stuff goes on all the time in the US; they just call it pornography, which evidently justifies censorship. what a world.
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Aug 27, 2001 7:17:57 AM CDT
Not to laugh at this news but, c'mon, this is going to be great
by lostoptimist
Seriously, what pseudo cult mainstream/indy-director wouldn't want their film bio to read something like: "...from the controversial director who's films have not only raised the ire of numerous Catholic and gay and lesbian groups but also had his magnum opus banned from theatres in the Bahamas"?
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What if the Bahamanians had spent all this time and energy on refining their air-travel practices? Aaliyah and Kevin Smith would both be a lot happier.
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Doesn't the US government force censorship on TV? Are there not laws around when certain content or language can be shown on TV? Why can't Dan Rather say "fuck" on the CBS Evening News? - not that he'd want to, but if he did, he'd be in violation of FCC laws. And if censorship is censorship, then that is censorship. Furthermore, you may ask for the rationale behind such laws - well, are they not designed to protect the public? are they not legislating on morality? So, if censorship is censorship, in what way is the FCC banning a word before 10 PM any different from the Bahamas banning a movie altogether? What about communities, all across the US, who have enacted legislation to ban strip clubs and adult-themed stores in their neighborhood - how is that different? It is different because ther ARE degrees of censorship. There is a difference between banning a word before 9 and banning a movie, just as there is a difference between banning a movie and imprisoning the director and producer for attempting to make a movie. It is easy to be judgemental when you think you live in "the land of the free" - but remember that the Bahamas is a fairly small consituency - so look not at the US Federal leve, but look at the county and municiapl level - and you will see that censorship is alive and well even in the USA.
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Any body on this talk back saying, "Who cares if they ban one stupid movie" are ignorant jackasses. When a country tells its population that it CANNOT see any kind of movie, read any book, or listen to someone speak it is a travisty. What are they afraid of? That you may come up with your own thoughts on a subject. Who is that board of censors in the Bahamas to say what anybody can see. What if the next movie they don't want you to see is about the corruption in the Bahaman government.
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...i certainly wouldn't be wasting my time going to movies. go to the beach and chill.
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"They both see a young boy waiting at a stoplight to turn green. The priest says, "Mmmmmmm, let's go fuck that little boy!" The rabbi says, "Outta what?!" Thank you very much: I'm here all week! Try the shrimp!
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Censorship is a practice of a government against its subjects. A government either gets what powers it has from the consent of the governed or it is a tyranny. Therefore, no government has the "right" to censor. It may have, at best, permission to do so. There are a number of reasons that a government will practice it, but the point is that it is a government practice. There is no such thing as corporate censorship. The very idea is a logical contradiction. A corporation is a private entity, the same as a mom-and-pop store, a web site or a person. You, as an individual, have the right to allow or disallow any newspaper, magazine, videocassette or any other communication vehicle into your home. By the same token, a store can stock what materials it chooses and not to stock what it refuses. A web site, as a privately-owned bit of cyberspace, can block whatever postings it wants to block or delete postings it finds objectionable. In fact, I understand that AICN has itself deleted messages and blocked certain users from posting, as it has a perfect right to do. A corporation is nothing more than a private person or persons under a particular legal organizational scheme and as such can be subject to censorship
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It is amazing that something as simple as a persons opinion can spark so many emotions in so many people.I would have to agree that we(the U.S)cannot hold others to our standards of free speech,what's right and wrong ect.However,the guy that complained has every right to say that it sucks that he can't see a movie because of local morals and standards.If you're not a Kevin Smith fan,fine,but then why would you read Kevin Smith related posts?Doesn't it seem a little excessive?I'm sure there will a few"Fuck You,You Fucking Fuckity Fuck" posts after mine and great because that's your opinion and you have a right to it regardless of where you are.
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I'm adamantly opposed to all obscenity or censorship laws imposed by the government (as for business standards, that's their call). As much as a part of me would love to see Howard Stern or Tom Green sent to the land of wind and ghosts, I know that it's fundamentally wrong and can site precedent to snuff out intelligent subversion. Anyway, I'm thinking of some of the more recent artists/works of art that have either been the victims of obscenity laws or been vilified: Eminem, Marilyn Manson, Robert Mapplethorp, "Piss Christ," American Psycho, Larry Flynt, Jerry Springer, Mike Diana. All of it completely illiterate garbage that serves no better purpose than to strive for notoriety. I'll grudgingly give South Park some points for intelligence, but damn it would feel nice to go to bat for something that actually has artistic merit. Come on give me a Sex Pistols, or Midnight Cowboy, or Guernica or anything....
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Big frickin' deal. This is no different than movies being editied in Europe to meet their standards. This is also just the equivalent of the MPAA giving this movie an NC-17. At the end of the day it might suck, but big deal. There are many bigger problems in the world, especially in the Bahamas.
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Just a technicality, Dan Rather could technically say Fuck on the evening news. His trouble would come from indecency laws, and probably from CBS News, but not necessarily from the FCC. In fact after 10pm, one can actually say whatever they want on radio or tv. This is from original legal statute. They can still get fined under obscenity laws, which in many cases is censorship, but not technically a free speech violation. As for the man in the Bahamas - Several horror movies in the past year have had release dates pushed back to cut the movie to a PG-13 from an R. Censorship? No. But since studios are under fire for marketing R rated movies, it is de facto. So things in the US aren't much different. BRAVO KEVIN SMITH for going for such a STRONG R rating. And also, since he claims to read these, thank you for making Chasing Amy and Clerks. As a Pittsburgh native, I can attest to the realism and artistic documentation of the lives of normal people demonstrated in your work. Sorry, that was too academic sounding. Please don't retire when you're forty. Thank you. And I'm looking to change jobs. I would make a great film producer/worker/set bitch.
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i think they censored jay and silent bob in my area too, it had fucking zero funny parts... whats THAT all about?
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Aug 27, 2001 9:35:36 AM CDT
Sutureself, you point out an important distinction, but you need
by eraser_x
Yes, government censorship is different from private or corporate censorship, but the word "censorship" itself does not *have* to refer only to government censorship. (Dictionary.com says censorship merely means "to examine and expurgate".) That's the funny thing about Talkbacks, seemingly every time that someone points out someone else's alleged mistake, the pointer-outer makes mistake(s) of the same type of equal or greater magnitude. I'll bet that this post of mine also contains mistakes.
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man o man. Maybe this isnt a violation of "human rights"...but it sure is a violation of the individual to decide for himself what he can and cannot see. I find it disgraceful when anyone deems something innapropriate for someone other than themself to see. Its one thing to not want something marketed to kids....thats fine by me.....but to NOT ALLOW any form of art to be seen, whether its the godfather....or fuckin bubble boy (shudder), is just disgraceful and insulting to any ones intelligence.
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He shortcutted the dictionary.com definition. Censorship, acc. to the site, is "the act or process of censoring." A censor is someone *authorized* to examine and suppress. The verb is "to examine and expurgate" - note the infinitives, which can only be applied to a VERB, not a NOUN.
The ACT is examination and expurgation, but the AGENT has to be *authorized* to censor. -
I DID forget that line when I posted. It was 0300 and I had just gotten home from work so I was a little tired. BUT, I have another controversial comment to make since the person seems to be in the military. If this is the absolute worst example of deprivation he experiences during his service, he will be damn lucky!!! I recently left the Army after 7 years due to better opportunities in the civilian sector and I was EXTREMELY fortunate that I was never stationed where simply wearing the uniform could get me killed. I never had to pull 24 hour guard duty in the cold in the Korea while wondering if my M16 would jam if I needed it (SPORTS, MY ASS!). I never had to swelter in full chemical warfare protection gear while awaiting "incoming" during Desert Storm. There were many things which I did not have to do that many others did. If I had been there, I would have done what I had to do and feel the deepest respect for those that have served under these and other frightening, uncomfortable circumstances. Hopefully I would not have felt that I had to whine because the country in which I served wasn't showing a movie I wanted to see.____An Unsympathetic Bee
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Anybody who didn't laugh watching that movie and continues to post on this talkback, you're pitiful.
The simple irony that you flamers are the basis for the movie should humble and awe you numbnuts. And the fact that you bash your own fuckin' movie is implication enough that you must ride the short bus.
"I've noticed this same sentiment over and over again, in many guises, among the angry, ill-informed, under-read and over-indulged internet youth...A blanket, all-encompassing urge and feeling that their freedom of "expression" is all-encompassing, and that ANY constraints upon it; common sense, courtesy, decorum, decency, or informed counterpoint-- are yolks of oppression...There seems to have been, somewhere along the lines, a death of shame."~DarthDobbin
Begone. I'm done with ya's. -
Aug 27, 2001 11:33:48 AM CDT
Stop censoring our directors and killing our R&B singers
by chow yun phat
The bahamas should be more worried about stricter air travel codes. A dick joke never killed anyone.
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just use a dictionary! Don't you remember the trouble that can cause in the wrong hands? Inbred! ;) Oh, and pass the salt, please.____An Unjournalistic Bee
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In pointing out my alleged mistake, he exposes nothing but his own poor logic, reasoning, and reading-comprehension skills. Okay, I'll bore everyone further by illustrating for you, Tesarta, how to read and understand a dictionary. As you, Tesarta, yourself confirm, censorship is defined in the dictionary as "the act or process of censoring." And what is "censoring"? it is a VERB. Get it? That is why I readily admit that I mentioned *only* the VERB definition of "censor" ("to examine and expurgate") and not the many NOUN definitions of "censor". The VERB form is the **only** form that is within the dictionary's definition of "censorship", which is the only word I was discussing! Get it? Tesarta, if want to talk about the NOUN form of censor, go ahead, but leave me out of it! I never said you or Sutureself couldn't read connotations or extraneous limitations into censorship *if you want*. I just said that the definition of censorship does not **have** to include those limitations, and therefore Sutureself's categorical lecturing to correct others' usage was improper. End of story. Did it ever occur to you to think your logic through first before you started posting? Sheesh.
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Ok..alot of you seem to have misinterpreted my point. I do not argue that censorship is not legal in the Bahamas..indeed it is. My point is that it is ethicaly wrong! How would you like it if you were trying to post to or read the talk backs here and you get a message from your ISP that they dont like Harry's attitude or his little cartoons (Harry naked in rose petals is rather disturbing) and so as a result you cant look at it. Would it piss you off? Sure! And why? Because you feel that as an intelligent human being you are smart enough and evolved enough to make your own decisions. Doesnt matter what country you live in.
Now for those who are telling our friend in the Bahamas to move, as has been stated, he is serving in the military and cant leave. I for one applaud his service to our nation (being a military man myself). If one of our service men wants to see 2 hours of (excellent) dick and fart jokes then he should absolutely be allowed to. Again..if you dont like it dont go see it. I will close by reitterating my previous point about censors. Paraphrasing something I recently heard 'somewhere'...FUCK CENSORS..FUCK THEM UP THEIR STUPID ASSES!' Thank you and good night. -
The thing about dictionaries is that there are, generally speaking, two types, the descriptive and the prescriptive. Descriptive dictionaries deal with words and language as they are, including vernacular, slang and common uses of words, whether the uses are "proper" or not. Prescriptive dictionaries endeavor to define words according to "proper" or technical or pedantic criteria. The two dictionaries I use most are the Webster's New World and the Random House. The two treat "censorship" slightly differently. Both refer the reader back to "censor." The Webster's New World makes no reference to a censor other than as an "official," except for archaic or obsolete usages. The Random House, in addition to the "official" citations, refers to "any person" who manages the morals or tastes of others. You ask me to get a better dictionary, but you don't cite the one you used. The Random House and New World are excellent dicitonaries, yet different from one another. It depends on whether you're interested in how words are used, vernacularly and otherwise, or whether you're interested in how they "should" be used. At any rate, I wrote my post without first referring to a dictionary; I know what censorship is. You read my post and then ran to a dictionary just to see whether you could post a Gotcha! Well, you got me, I guess, but the ideas in my post are still correct, I think. Mebbe not. Suit yourself.
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Aug 27, 2001 12:09:10 PM CDT
okay, lest Tesarta or some other wannabe lawyer, correct me
by eraser_x
I just said that "censoring" is a VERB. Yeah, I was imprecise. I don't know if it's proper to call it a verb. Is it a verb participle? Whatever, I don't remember, and I don't care. Anyhow, the definition of "censoring", by the rules of grammar, depends solely on the VERB form of censor, and not any other form. Hey Huneybee, you're right, I never should have looked in a dictionary to make any point. The dictionary is the devil's (or journalist's) tool. (BTW, a sincere thanks to you, Huneybee, for serving in the Army to protect our country and its Constitution.)
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just give that nun some head, and i'm sure she'll change her mind!
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for being kind about the whole thing. I wasn't trying to post a "gotcha". I was just pointing out that the other posters whom you admonished were using language in an *acceptable* way. In short, your way is not the *only* way. I simply used one dictionary that is easiest and quickest for me to use, which I did cite: dictionary.com . Sorry to bore everyone, I wasn't trying to start a thread. Peace.
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You know religion can be a wierd thing sometimes. Everyone is granted the freedom of religion and should always stick by their beliefs, but it's a shame when that very freedom acts on it's own and affects it's people by using censorship. I think most of you know about the whole Utah thing where they have the infamous business of censoring R rated films such as Saving Private Ryan and trimming the films down to a PG rating. I always thought that was strange and unfair to the people behind the film but hey, at least people are given the right to choose what version they'd like to watch. At least I now know there is a place that will completely over-react and pretty much ban a film from being released in their theatres. But all of this because the people are afraid they might lose faith in their religion if they see this film? Couldn't they just not see it?
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As the author of the "Move" suggestion and a former service member, I ask you to please take the time to read my second post titled, re: SpiderWoman. I agree with you that ethically censorship IS wrong (with some exceptions) but that does not mean that other countries must be held to our standards. If we impose our laws and beliefs on other countries, how are we different from the "bad guys"? I just feel that any member of the military had better be prepared to face hardships greater than the lack of opportunity to see a desired movie. My viewpoint on the Bahama position is best summarized by an Army expression: "Suck it up and drive on." This is not a flame or an attempt to belittle YOUR opinion, I just would like for you to read the follow up to my initial post.____Bee (I am risking a double post here, please excuse if it occurs, server blah blah blah)
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If you are an adult, then nobody else should have a say in what you do or do not watch. This is of course PROVIDING that in the process you're not violating someone else's rights. If this had taken place in the U.S. I would be screaming about it at the top of my lungs, but it didn't and we have no right to force others to conform to our way of life. In the end - "Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back" being banned in the Bahamas is just not a "violation of human rights," so I see no need to bring in Amnesty International over this one.
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I don't know where most of you yahoos ever got the idea that America is an anarchy and anything goes. Seperation of church and state isn't even mentioned in the Constitution and was an invention of the judiciary . We need more censorship in this country in regards to crappy movies. What is the point of having a governing board for movies if they aren't gonna govern. Censor 'em all. We may only have 2 movies a year, but it might be something worth watching. Since most readers of this site don't know what morals are anyway, how can any of you judge anything. You have no wisdom and no basis for understanding at all. This "hey if its fun I want to do it" attitude is growing old and weary and is not a foundation for good judgement. Give the nun a medal.
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Aug 27, 2001 2:07:29 PM CDT
On a related note: THE MPAA SUCKS DICK! (they just don't film th
by tequila wyrm
...unlike Director/Convicted Pedophile - Victor Salva! HA! I feel so much better now. I hadn't made a Victor Salva joke in weeks! *SIGH* See ya at "Jeepers Creepers"!!!
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You know what... I believe there is a God, and I might even still believe in Jesus Christ, but at this point, I'm so starting to agree with people who say shit like that. If anything has fucked up more lives, caused more deaths, and screwed up more societies over the past 2,000 years, it's Bible thumping Christian morons. I know people are going to try to throw all of this bullshit at me for saying that, but we all know it's true. The philosopher's who's work the ideas in the Declaration of Independence embodies were fed up with King's and governments deriving their power to rule and opress from the so-called 'divine right.' What's funny is that this divine right has never really disappeared. In some small way, it's being used right here in this case. Everywhere governments are using their 'high moral standards as a result of their religious upbringing' to keep you and I from knowing the truth about something and forming our own opinions. In this particular case, it may be a stupid dick and fart joke movie and it is not a human right to get to see it, we know this. But censorship is bullshit no matter what the case. Even if a work is Nazi propaganda, or racist, or has homosexual content that some assholes don't want you to see cause they're homophobes, it should be allowed to be seen. Why should one group of people get to see it and judge whether the rest of us, be it in the U.S. or any other country in the world, are intelligent enough to discern it's true value or message. Like another poster said, 'What are they so afraid of? People forming their own opinions?'
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Anyway, I'm going to get more info on Monday and I will fight this as hard as I can, or at least piss a lot of prudish people
DIZZY of the hip new band
...THE GRAMMER POLICE... says:
"piss a slut!" -
Its sad that we live in an age when censorship still stops entertainment reaching the public. Why cant the censors do something better and censor the shit that they give us..NEXT TIME,STOP THESE FROM GETTING NEAR US..... Scary Movie 2 (Shite), American Pie 2 (Better than Scary Movie 2, but still shite), Pearl Harbour (Oh MY God!!!, there isnt a word for how bad). If the censors would have stopped the crap from hitting us this summer, we might have had some decent films. But the real reason for why censorship should die is BATTLE ROYALE - Now this film was absolute brilliance and will not be seen by a lot of moviegoing public because of these bigots, now that is what SUCKS.
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Hey Hacksaw... none of us talkbackers know what morals are? Maybe you could enlighten me? Where the hell do morals come from anyway? Morals and ethics are a purely human invention of the mind to allow us to live together without behaving like goddamn cave people. A moral law is totally abstract and not written in stone anywhere. Who says it is bad to do anything or good to do anything? How can we know if we are doing what is right morally? Do we follow our conscience? What if one person's conscience tells them it is ok to kill? Is lying bad ALL THE TIME? ******* Since you claim to know what morals are and think everyone else is ignorant and believe so much in censorship, why don't you enlighten us as to what WE should not be allowed to see or say or do? I'm amazed anyone has the balls to put themselves forward as a bastion of moral conduct and ideas who are able to correctly judge what everyone else is capable of handling. When you're making a moral decision, do you go by the Kantian method? Are you utilitarian? Intent or Consequence oriented? Do you believe in hedonism? You know what scares religious people, especially Christians, more than anything else? THE THOUGHT THAT NONE OF WHAT IS GOING ON RIGHT NOW MATTERS... not the idea that God is cruel or benevolent or whether there is a God at all, but the idea that maybe God, or just the universe itself is COMPLETELY INDIFFERENT. That it doesn't matter at all whether we behave in a certain way or believe in a certain God or in evolution. But hey... like George Carlin says, when you're born, you get a ticket to the freak show, so just try to enjoy the show and don't take it too seriously. Take that advice, idiot... Anyone else agree with this?
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We all are censors.everytime we write or say just about anything we censor ourselves. If that guy was really in the military, I'm surprised he would be allowed to make disparaging remarks about the host country, with out repurcussion.Folks just by me not cursing while writing this ditty, is self censorship. Even Kevin Smith had to censor himself and his movie. Well, ok, they use the word Edit, but it's still the same thing. Who is this Aliahh,,whatever person, and whats the connection to airplanes?
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Did any of notice the name of the guy that wrote the ''Bluntman and Chronic'' article on ''Movie Poop Shoot.com''? The guys name was ''Harry Balls''. I'm no genious, but this could be a nod to the AICN guru Harry Knowles. Does anyone agree?
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I think banning a Kevin Smith movie doesn't quite rise to the staus of a human rights violation. Tragic as it is, there are ways to see movies not available in your area. Some are legal, some are grey area and some are downright illegal. You can't win against such hard ass assholes. All you can do is sidestep them.
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...after all, why should I be censored by YOUR fucking prudish linear Western morals?! Better yet, broadcast humans having sex with animals on ABC in the afternoon! Who are you to judge? FUCKING PURITAN! I wished I lived in a FREE country.
I'm Scab Picker -
Reverend Alden, just because you don't believe something doesn't give you the right to attack others you do. I, being the typical talkbacker, should probably start talking about you needing to be fucked in the ass or something. So, um, just go suck off a dog, or something. Love, Peace, and Chicken Grease, SadPanda
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I actually paid money to see this obnoxious movie. The only part that made me laugh was Afroman's "I got high" song over the end credits.
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My apologies..I did not read your previous post clearly enough. Thanks for being cool about it. We need more people on talkbacks that can calmly discuss ideas without resorting to flame wars.
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While I can't agree with Bahamas' decision to totally ban J&SBSB in the country, Utah is a wholly different state. No, not much different from Bahamas, but some. It's true there was a video shop that mangle Titanic and Saving Private Ryan in the editing process, but only cut after customers BOUGHT the videtapes then request to excise the offending scenes. And it's amazing that one of the most conservative cities in the state and the nation - Provo - has video stores that rent out NC-17 videotapes like Last Tango in Paris and tons of cheesy soft core porn and gory horror movies. "Community standard of decency," my ass. This is the same city that screamed hysteria over Victoria's Secret ads and 2 Live Crew's performance at a local bar for adults 21 and over. In fact, you can order hard core porn videotapes over the Internet (providing that retailers are willing to ship discreetly - some refuse to ship porn to only Utah and not anti-porn states like Kentucky because of fear of prosecution from the hordes of Mormon mob and Porn Czar Paula Houston - cowards). And J&SBSB plays at not one, but two local theaters along with Original Sin with no problem except prompting fanatically conservative anti-intellectual neanderthals to walk out because they were offended by language and sex. Hannibal made shitloads of money when it was released over here last February. Go figure.
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God is truth. The things in this movie are a lie. If this man wants to see this movie, and risk his soul, it is his business. God gave him free will, his will has nothing to do with these censor people. And, by the way, morality originally came from God, and it has been written on our hearts, which is why killing is universally wrong. Also, by the way, all of the bad things that have been done by so called Christians over the years should be blamed on the sinfulness of the people that did those things, not on God. May God's peace shine on you!
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you people are fucking morons... it's irrelevant whether or not you think jay and silent bob is a shitty movie, or if you would rather go to the beach than go to the movies... that's your fucking opinion and that doesnt mean it has to be everybody's... maybe he wanted to see the fucking movie... the point is censorship is bullshit. just because somebody this something in a movie is objectionable doesnt give them the right to keep EVERYONE from seeing it... if i want to go see dick and fart jokes then that's my fucking business not some fucking nun's... that's the problem with christianity... trying to save everybody from seeing things THEY think people should see... well fuck what they think and fuck all you idiots who are bashing this guy for getting mad about it.
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That's disgusting.
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Aug 27, 2001 10:43:46 PM CDT
Black Jesus is not black, jesus, or even heterosexual for that m
by scab picker
You kids who want this Nun's wishes ignored contradict your own jacked up self-refuting arguement. Her interpretation of her religion demands that she try to stop this movie from being shown in her nation. The elected officials (probably elected by Catholics) have a choice to make, to obey the wishes of the nun or obey the wishes of people who want to see a potty movie. People who want to see potty movies don't rule the fucking world and they don't get to tell a nun what kinds of movies she should and shouldn't try to ban (which is true freedom of religion). I think it's GREAT that some movies get banned, or deflated through lack of marketing or pulled from the market due to offended parents and I also think it's great that some movies survive the pressures of censorship. Every offensive movie doesn't get banned nor automatically pushed into the public marketplace. For those of you who think we Christians like to defend nuns because "we like to judge and tell people what to do"... FUCK YOU. I'm Scab Picker
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To clarifiy a few things....The state and church separation is common in most democratic countries around the world. It has been that way even before the American constitution was even writen. Violation of Human rights...to compare denial of viewing a movie to denial of freedom is an attrocitie. Yes, movies are a form of freedom, but just not on the same level...they don't even appear on the same scale!
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Aug 28, 2001 12:08:33 AM CDT
Lame Opening + Lame Word Of Mouth + Kevin Smith in Panic = Plant
by 20th century fox
This is biggest mound of horse shite to conme from the homophobe Smith and anti catholic Wienstien ass in quite some time....So some punk ass cant see this piece of lame ass homophobic grunge is good propaganda in the Trpoics...Best of all HE MIGHT NOT EVEN LIVE THERE cant get a chaep flight to FL but has enough dough to own a computer and cry sorry to ACIN....If you buy into this shit then youve been duped...Look this movie opened SHITTY...Yes smith fans are spinning like dorthy hamill but the truth is such...This movie opeined on friday at 4.5 million yet dropped like smith ass in water. TRANSLATION: Only hard core smith fans came out and those who did see it were not too happy...CONCLUSION: Mirimax needs to get some traction somehow on thier "voice of generation" smith bomb...SOLUTION: Plant story on ACIN and hope liberals show up for this pice of homophobic propaganda....IN CLOSING: KEVIN SMITH IS A SHITTY FILMAKER WHO IS FINDING OUT THE 90's ARE OVER AND THE BLACK HOLE SUN wont COME TO WASH AWAY THE RAIN!!!!!!!! Fuck you smith...
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i'm not sure if this is old news already or even news at all... but if you wish check out... (http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2001/08/26/magazine/26STYLE-SS_2.html) for a comic by Kevin Smith about his wife. Remember to keep watching TV and get fat. We need more poo in the world.
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www.oxebridge.com/sta/
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Being a Bible thumping facist myself, I just wanted to share a few words to you guys.
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish buth have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved."
John 3:16-17
"He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemened already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil."
John 3: 17-18
Flame away, have a nice day. -
Aug 28, 2001 8:45:51 AM CDT
Why does it seem Harry/Moriarty are so cool on this movie?
by heywood jablomie
'Cause it pokes fun at AICN? I think this movie is fucking hilarious--how come this site didn't give it a bigger pat on the back?
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Censorship?
Unfortunately the right to defend one's own opinions by not showing a movie is not censorship but free speach. It's a double-edged sword but many people feel that some things should not be profaned and certainly have the right not to have their movie theatres play what is offensive to their religeon just like tax-payers have the right not to pay for abortion if they think it's murder or a gay couple to vote against a tax on unmarried couples when they can't marry by law. Nuns are women under vows of celibacy and while the joke may be funny a person has the right to be offended by someone making fun of that lifelong commitment.
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I had no idea people didn't like this movie till I read some of the posts. Is it some personal thing you have against Kevin Smith? Have you no sense of humor? Maybe it's cause this movie exposed most of the talkbackers on here for what they really are: pathetic children who's negative opinions of good movies go unheard in the real world but are made very clear on the internet where they can use their computer screen as a shield. I swear, all you idiots who didn't like this movie can eat a bowl of dicks. it must suck to be you people. If you didn't like this flick then you've never liked Kevin Smith so what the fuck where you doing there in the first place anyway?
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Aug 28, 2001 9:56:02 AM CDT
The 1st guy was right. It's all based on community standards, q
by fandude
Talk about being miffed at not seeing a heaping lump of smoking pile of dung that "jay & silent bob" is. It's about time someone "silenced" those two idiots.
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Reverend Alden, to restate your point, "People shouldn't have the right to voice their opinion and influence culture if Rev. Alden thinks their God is a myth." While I don't have Alden's giant amount of faith it takes to not believe in God (and he thumps his "Origin of Species" far louder than Christians thump their Bible) the idea that Catholics should QUIT the church to make this world a better place is funny. Catholic charities have done enormous good in our society (insert revisionist history arguement about the church murdering billions of people here), Mother Theresa running an AIDS hospice charity in Calcutta would be difficult without her Catholic faith and the church's support. There are many eloquent atheists and liberals who make compelling arguments against Christianity but idiots like Rev. Alden give them a bad name. Put your fucking brain back in your head before you open your mouth jack-ass.
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Aug 28, 2001 1:02:07 PM CDT
....at least the guy is in the Bahamas....I've never been there.
by smugbug
besides even the middle eastern countries don't allow KISSING in their movies. Or HAND HOLDING. My sister has lived in Kuwait since 1988 and the way that they edit movies, television programs is just attrocious. They just outright lop out a scene where two people kiss, that's it. So you get HUGE chunks of missing dialogue or the continuity of the story is lost. It's pretty bad. Hey, shouldn't THAT be a "violation of human rights"? BAD BAD editing? Anywhoos, you'd think Kuwait would be a little more westernized in their censoring. But it ain't so. Not even in the 21st Century.
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Perhaps we should let Iraq have them! I wonder if Iraq would cut the scene and insert a picture of S.H.?____*CENSORED*
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You know there are those of us who can enjoy movies like those Kevin Smith makes ... that want to see movies like J&SBSB ... that believe in God and\or Jesus, and even some that would dare to call themselves Christians ... hi, you're reading a message post from one. Stop trying to villainize Christians for believing what they believe. Is everyone who claims to be a Christian some kind of moral authority? Of course not. I don't go out and preach to my friends, I hang out with 'em, drink with 'em, etc. ... and still find a place in my mind to accept that IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THERE NOT TO BE A GOD. Atheism is a conflict of interests, almost an oxymoron. If God didn't create the universe, what did? The Big Bang? Okay, what was before that? Hot gases which created the explosion? Okay, what was before that? And before that? And before that? Is it that much easier to believe that there have always been "hot gases" floating around in nothingness, or that there's a force, a God, behind all madness? Atheists piss me off, they can't argue their point worth a dime. If you don't like Christianity, don't follow it. Go be a Buddhist or a Hindu or whatever. But don't chastise Christians for what they believe. If you bark at them for things they do or say, where does that put you? Think about it.
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If I bark at christians for attempting to shove their dogma donw my throat, that puts me at the FRONT end of the dog. Tell them to go censor mickey mouse. I think he just sodomized donald duck. Woof
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Not sure if it's been answered but Joe Quesada was the pizza delivery boy... Not so sure about Paul Dini though.
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This movie will be lucky to crack 22 million which is what thsi shit fest cost...This whole censorship thing is to get libs fired up to go see it but it aint gonna happen...Which is good all I can say is: FUCK YOU KEVIN SMITH...
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Aug 28, 2001 10:00:58 PM CDT
I've gone down on a NUN and, believe me, I can undestand why the
by eugene o
It's not pretty, believe me.
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Aug 28, 2001 10:02:58 PM CDT
I've gone down on CARRIE FISHER and, believe me, I can undestand
by eugene o
Geezis...don't even remind me of it!
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Think of it: If you post something here that's not kosher in the eyes of the staff, your post gets deleted, and you may even be banned from the site. THAT's censorship for ya; a website where only a few select may speak their minds. And one more thing: How can Americans even begin to criticise another country for christian censorship? In a country where butt-cracks get blurred, words that are being deemed offensive (by whom?) are bleeped and a president that's only an inch form being a right-out christian fascist. Come on!
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Heh, SirReal. I am replying while your post is still up. Mori has this whole convoluted science behind why his banning is not "censorship." It's pretty durn funny. But lately he's gotten into a feedback loop because of the bad press he's getting on banning people, and it's impact on his celebrity. Oh no, what to do??? To ban or not to ban??!! The truth is censorship is allowed on "private property," including this discussion board or in Blockbuster, etc. Because "privatization" is the big thing these days worldwide, expect the situation to get worse, not better. And watch pro-censorship guys like Mori get all tangled up trying to hide their contradictions. ==== For real laughs, check out thesmokinggun.com which just posted the arrest warrants for Jason Mewes on heroin possession charges. Oh, yeah, you gotta love drug addicts!! Make for fun news!!
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Censorship is censorship, no matter who does it. I think it's even worse when it's done by privates (no pun intended), because noone controls private people the way you can a government. I saw a quite disturbing example on that the other night on TV. An Australian documentary on US prisons and the privatization (sp?) of them. It seems, according to politicians (and we know who owns them, namely privete contributors to their campaigns) that the crime rate in the US is rising. That's not interely true, according to an American interviewed professor in the documentary. He said that since 1980 and up until today (2000), crime in the US had gone DOWN, not up. Despite this, there are 500 new prison beds built each and every week! OK, I'll stop now. English not being my native tongue, I can't seem to make my point which should be a toned down and reflected: USA, bad. Cencorship, bad. Too much privatization, bad. American private censorship, worst.
-Namarie -
I've noticed on at least a coupla occasions (e.g., when pointed out by other posts) that people's posts had been "disappeared" by the, delusionally-power-drunk AICN gang. I remembered reading a couple of those banned posts, and thinking they were reasonable posts that disagreed with AICN actions but that did not use profanity or mindless insults. (They were more reasonable than my own posts, I must admit.) Anyhow, when you have a site run by children, they will do children-like things, I guess.
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855K Scoville during the Matt Drudge TB. RIP.
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I frequently visit Nassau, Bahamas for work. On occasion, when not consuming rum and cokes, snorkeling, or eating conch salads i've attended the movies since it's difficult to see everything at home with kids. My experience is that anyone with a true love for movies in an enjoyable environment wouldn't see a moive in that country. Bad picture (cropped,shaking, etc), bad sound (Dolby stereo in most theaters, mon in others) and an awful participatory audience. I saw two year olds running up and down the aisles at Final Fantasy. I've had to go out in the hall and tell the employees (high schoolers of course)to shut the hell up, and even to start the movie ten minutes after posted time. Stick to alcoholism, the ocean, skirt chasing, and fishing. Save the movies for your visits to Miami. The country is about 10 years behind us in services for the most part. Its a good day if the power doesn't go out during the show.
Who let the dogs out- Bahamen
What the hell does that mean.
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