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WORLD'S FINEST - Batman & Superman Film to be Directed By DAS BOOT fella - Wolfgang Petersen!!!

Hey Folks, Harry here... Well here we go with yet another BATMAN/SUPERMAN project at Warner Brothers. Lorenzo and crew are determined to figure out something for their superheroes to do. Just a brief recap...

We have the Darren Aronofsky/Frank Miller BATMAN YEAR ONE project, which is a seventies FRENCH CONNECTION-esque Batman movie that uses the YEAR ONE concept as a jumping off point. But we know that Aronofsky is still a bit away while he pounds out his science fiction story on film...

Then we have the Jon Peters SUPERMAN LIVES/DIES/WHO CARES IT'S JON PETERS project, which inevitably will suck ass like a colon cleaner... Although by bringing Paul Attanasio on to write, it might work so long as Jon leaves him alone...

There was the BATMAN BEYOND - Boaz Yakin directing, Paul Dini, Alan Burnett and Neal Stephenson adaptation of the animated series for live action, which apparently fell apart with Boaz, last I heard.

Then there was the SUPERMAN/LOBO story treatment that Keith Giffen brought up and that I heard John Woo was interested in being attached to, but with John doing that TMNT flick, I don't know where this is.

Then there is an unknown BATMAN script that is allegedly being worked on by Paul Dini and Alan Burnett, which rumors say gets Batman out of Gotham and on a world wide adventure. And this is live-action...

NOW... VARIETY is telling the world that Andrew Kevin Walker (screenwriter of SEVEN, THE GAME, 8MM, SLEEPY HOLLOW, etc) is writing a WORLD'S FINEST script that would pair up SUPERMAN and BATMAN on an adventure which is to be directed by WOLFGANG PETERSEN!!!!

Now this project could be the long rumored secret George Clooney development/idea that he had, especially given George's friendship with Wolfgang Petersen.

So which of these projects is going to be made? Who knows? I'd say the attachment of Wolfgang Petersen is very promising, as he is known for making projects that he is attached to, unlike many directors that you hear attached to dozens of things and then you never see those films coughspeilbergcough....

Well that's a lot for you to chew on my friends... We'll see in time which of these comes to pass... For my money though, just give me John Milius' Wachowski produced KING CONAN - CROWN OF IRON, that's what is good in life!

Readers Talkback
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  • Aug. 8, 2001, 3:08 a.m. CST

    It wasn't Clooney's fault!

    by Rowlf_the_Dog

    Wolfgang Petersen and George Clooney doing a Batman flick. What a gift I got this morning!! Be still my geeky heart!

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 3:09 a.m. CST

    first

    by damocl

    sounds like dung

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 3:10 a.m. CST

    Around and around we go...

    by Ken Luxury-yacht

    It's been a while, so I guess it's long over due for a Batman, and/or Superman rumour to do the rounds. This certainly has more promise than most, if AKW can keep the dark (pitch black) edge of 'Se7en' in a Batman story, we could be right back on track. But then again, the only Batman/Superman story I really want to see is "The Dark Knight Returns", ah well, we can dream!!!

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 3:47 a.m. CST

    Endurance ?!!!!

    by bluelou_boyle

    I'd prefer to see the Earnest Shackleton Antartica adventure with Russel Crowe, directed by Peterson. Although after the Perfect soap-opera I don't know if I want to see anything from Peterson. Oh well, his 'Neverending Story'is coming to DVD, which is good in life. Although not as good as King Conan-Crown of Iron. Or does Conan the King sound better ?

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 4:04 a.m. CST

    It WAS Clooney's fault

    by EvilWorm

    How many shitty movies have y'all seen that your attention was totally captured by one person. You know, their performance stood out so much that the rest of the movie was palatable and that when it was over you remembered what that one person did and said, etc. Fuck the director, script bs arguement on the Batman thing. Clooney is a really good actor and if he had wnated to stand out then he would have. He has/had the ability to stand alone. He obviously didn't want to. Fuck it, enough said.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 4:13 a.m. CST

    then there's that Batman/Superman film set at the old folks' hom

    by Lance Rock

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 4:26 a.m. CST

    Batman around the world...

    by Human Tornado

    ... sounds like RA'S AL GHUL to me! Wich is fine, if they cast Clint Eastwood as the old demon and - insert hot actress of the week here - as Talia. World's Finest, on the other hand, sounds like a crappy idea. Two big guns, plus a villain that steals the show? Tell me I'm wrong, I dare ya!

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 4:34 a.m. CST

    Please let it be Year One

    by White_Noise

    I have to admit to not knowing much about the proposed Year One plotline, but it seems to have the potential to be an awesome movie. I remember the Year One book and what I loved most about it was the scale of the thing. Doing a superhero movie is like being a heroin addict... you may know that you need to show restraint but your soul is screaming that more is better and much more is much better. The failure in much of the celluloid Bat-world is these big, shiny mega-superduper-villians who seduce the director in to losing his focus. A gritty, urban setting, populated with lifesize bad guys would be the perfect playground for a dark knight detective. You know, the Batman of the first 20 minutes of the first film. It would mean more focus on his incredible skills than on his technology... Sheesh, I can't believe I actually write this crap. OK, that's enough of a geek-hemmorhage for one day.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 5:08 a.m. CST

    Hmmm.......

    by manchap

    There is no way on god's green earth this could be any better than the cartoon movie was. Although I have enormous faith is Paul Dini & Alan Burnett, I wish I could say the same for W. Peterson (AIR FORCE ONE!!). Thank you.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 5:23 a.m. CST

    Just Another B.S. Comic/Movie Piece that will never happen

    by anghus

    Unreliable information seems to be the basis for many stories these days. This is nothing more than an idea that someone has, and its no closer to being made than the Year One flick, which will never happen either. Every damn comic book that has a modicum of a following gets the rights purchased. Almost every title on the shelf from Image has a production company attatched to it, but theyll never get made. A Worlds Finest film will never happen. Id be happy if it did, the concept sounds cool enough. However, theres gonna be a WB exec who says: "Why make a Superman/Batman film that will gross 200 million when we can make seperate Batman and Superman films that will make 200 million each?" And even though the 30 year old child contigent gets all excited when they read a story like this, and it fuels a lot of pointless conversations, realize the bottom line here people: THIS MOVIE WILL NEVER HAPPEN. This isn't news, this is someone saying "hey, you know what would be great, a World's Finest Film". Take it for what it is. A wonderul concept that will never be made.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 5:23 a.m. CST

    How to salvage Superman Lives AND appease Jon Peters(the perputa

    by Jungle-face-jake

    Have Michael Mann take control of it. He's the perfect person to tackle a Superman movie.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 5:24 a.m. CST

    The World's Finest.

    by rabid_republican

    Of the projects mentioned, the "Year One" idea still remains the best, in my mind. I pray the Jon Peters film--no doubt destined to be an insult--never makes it to a cineplex. Batman and Superman are interesting in their own exclusive rights. Comic book films constantly run the risk of being bloated and overwrought, due to too many ideas.________________ Should "The World's Finest" be made, I'd recomend a more mature adaption of the animated crossover they had a few years back on the WB. Moreover, I'd want to stress the tension between the two titans, more than anything--perhaps we could even have a scene a la "Tower of Babel", wherein Bats prepares himself for any contingency of fighting Supes (as seen in the Dark Knight).

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 5:32 a.m. CST

    It was NOT Clooney's fault

    by JonQuixote

    There's not an actor alive who could have rescued that role. We'll ignore the horrible script/direction/art design and talk about acting. Y'know who "stood out"? Arnie. And not for reasons of talent. Uma's pisspoor Mae West impression also stood out. In fact, of the principal actors, Clooney gave the BEST performance. At least he was restrained, as opposed to 'hammy' (Arnie), 'wooden' (O'Donnell, giving Shatner a run for his money), 'campy' (Thurman), and just plain bad (Silverstone). This says a lot, considering that Clooney, though he's one of my favorite actors, isn't the best thespian out there...he comes from the Harrison Ford/Paul Newman mold. Very good at what he does, but somewhat limited range...as well as the realisation that Clooney really isn't the best choice for Batman. He's too suave and coy; he'd make a great Iron Man or Green Lantern, but there are better choices for Batman (though I won't complain if he's cast again...there are also WORSE choices).

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 5:52 a.m. CST

    X-men proved...

    by bc1970

    that more than one character can be displayed in a movie (though not entirely successfully). Blade2 will be great also. Lots of the video game movies did too. I'm surprised this isn't a JLA movie being announced. We're all skeptics now. Hope for the best but accept what happens instead. If this goes through, I hope it works.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 5:54 a.m. CST

    A.K. Walker

    by mrzsasz

    That alone makes this project the best of all in the works. If you read his X-Men draft, you know what I mean. It was light years better than what they shot. A.K. is the F'N Man. I just wish someone decent would make Red, White, Black & Blue.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 6:16 a.m. CST

    Smallville

    by DyslexicHeart

    If the WB's new "Adventures of a Young Clark Kent" series is even partially successful then you can bet that a film spin-off will be in the works. I personally liked the pilot but I'm skeptical about the rest of the season, considering I'll probably want to watch Roswell instead.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 6:48 a.m. CST

    by Wiggius

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 6:51 a.m. CST

    Dump the sci-fi Darren...

    by Wiggius

    Out of all of the projects listed.The one that really interests me is still "Year One".After X-Men we need superhero movies with an edge to make them bankable again.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 7:15 a.m. CST

    THE best director for a Batman movie? David Fincher, hands down

    by kdraines

    Take another look at Seven and tell me Batman wouldn't thrive in that dark cesspool environment. Fincher is the ONE director that comes to mind who cut his teeth on videos and is actually a very good director, to boot. If you took Seven and replaced the characters of Morgan Freeman and Brad Pitt with Batman, you would have one kick-ass movie. Wolfgang Petersen was good once. But his track record of late hasn't been so hot. He peaked with In Line of Fire. Outbreak was okay, but it sure wasn't poetry. Air Force One was bloated, big budget ballyhoo and boredom. And we won't even talk about The Perfect Storm. As for the Michael Mann suggestion. I think he's fantastic... but remember The Last of the Mohicans. Mann's not above camp, either. For my money, until Fincher is in the director's chair, we will never have the Batman we deserve.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 8:02 a.m. CST

    Clooney was the best Batman....

    by Otter

    ...by FAR, compared to the "attention-deficit absent-minded bachelor" of Michael Keaton, or the "Omega House", "smirking about Nicole Kidman WHILE in the BatSuit" Val Kilmer. George handled BOTH Bruce Wayne AND Batman with grace, nobility, and strength, despite a fecal script by *shudder* Akiva GoldShit, and campy directing by Joel Schlubmaker. I'd put down my money several times to see Clooney as Batman again; that one scene with Alfred dying in "Batman & Robin" showed me that Clooney, above all his predessors, has a TRUE handle on what Batman/Bruce Wayne is all about.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 8:52 a.m. CST

    They should do Batman VS Superman.

    by magusreno

    Just like in the comic, wouldn't that be a fanboy dream and get people's attention?

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 9:03 a.m. CST

    Endurance

    by Sam-80

    I really want Petersen to direct Endurance with Russell Crowe as Shackleton but I really want Russell Crowe to direct "The Long Green Shore" which is an amazing book. Since it seems this is going to be Russell Crowe's next project I hope Wolfgang Petersen is filling in the time with Batman.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 9:04 a.m. CST

    there's no way this will happen.

    by Rufus_T_Firefly

    Why? Because (A) it

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 9:11 a.m. CST

    Personally...

    by AlonzoMoselyFBI

    ...I'd rather see a JLA movie as long as we're talking team-ups. While I am, first and formemost, a Spidey fan (can't wait to see if that movie does justice to the character), I'd love to see some of DC's greatest on screen at the same time. __________________________________As far as I'm concerned, the Batman franchise is dead (or at least on life support). Those last two installments were so unbelievably awful. Clooney was OK as Batman, but I honestly would like to see a revision of the Batman costume/car/other appointments. It's time to move away from black rubber and codpieces, people. The level of interest I would have in seeing a new Batman movie right now without a re-thinking of how they present the character would be virtually nil. I don't think Batman has really been nailed by any of the screenwriters yet.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 9:34 a.m. CST

    Big Blue Boyscout

    by journalist

    According to another website, one of the Batman projects is a possible

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 10:09 a.m. CST

    round and round we go

    by Varakor

    I'm sorry a lot of you might begin the drool fest about these batman/superman projects, but personally i won't get excited until a script is ready and greenlighted/directors are set in stone/actors have been chosen/production is about to begin. Other than that, whilst it would be GREAT to see a Batman/Superman combo, a Batman Beyond story, a Batman Year one story, a Superman anything story, we shouldn't start singing the praises of (your writer/director) here until there is something more solid.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 10:32 a.m. CST

    WHO WROTE THE GAME?

    by WINSLOWLEACH

    Michael Ferris and John Brancato, the guys doing T3, wrote The Game, not Anderson.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 11:04 a.m. CST

    BAH!

    by superninja

    Burton didn't really get it right. Sorry, it was an entertaining movie, but it wasn't Batman in much more than name. I like Burton a lot, but they barely scratched the surface in terms of the character's psychology. It was a movie about the Joker. The second one was about Catwoman and the Penguin. The third about Riddler and Two-Face...see a pattern emerging? Batman isn't even the star of his own movies!!! And they barely used the concept of him being urban myth, something which could make the character dark and mysterious, but HELL, it wouldn't sell any toys, so throw that out the window.***There's already one fantastic World's Finest film, and that's the one produced by the only people at WB who understand comic book characters: Paul Dini and Bruce Timm. The live-action version will never come close. If it does, I'll eat my words, but you know it doesn't stand a chance with those producers/clowns at WB in charge.***Can we just see how the new Batman movie does first before they start pummeling us with Batman vs ### movies? Superman needs a relaunch. It's been awhile, people. And when you think about the direction that Jon Peters wants to take Superman in...SCARY!!!

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 11:18 a.m. CST

    The problem with Batman is that he's an @$$hole

    by superninja

    and no one wants to play him that way, or probably even write him that way. It makes him unsympathetic. They have to ride that fine line like they did with Wolverine in the X-Men movie. Keaton's Batman was a lovelorn gimp, Kilmer's went to COUNCELLING (WTF!!! - only the Schumacher/Goldsman team...). I agree that Clooney was the only Batman somewhat like Batman - a phony Bruce Wayne and a smart-ass dark avenger. The script was terrible, but Clooney had something going on there. I would like to see him again with the right script.***And someone on the DC Boards brought up a great point as to how little the first film understood Batman. In making the Joker his parents killer, they give Batman the chance to redeem the murder of his parents. This is the whole driving force of Batman, and something that can never happen. It's what makes him lose sleep at night enough to don tights and fight crime.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 11:25 a.m. CST

    Superninja...are you daft?

    by JonQuixote

    The first Batman was ENTIRELY about the psychology of the Batman character. Burton presented Batman/Bruce as a man with a major psychotic problem and borderline multiple personality disorder. I've already posted in detail about Keaton's subtle voice work in expressing this. I know what you mean about the franchise devoting too much energy on the villains, but I think the focus on the Joker worked nicely in the first movie because Burton was able to show just how similar the two characters were. Two violent psychotics waging war on the object of their obsessions: each other. Maybe the psychological interpretation of the Batman character wasn't to your liking (ie. you wanted a saner Bats, or a more detective Bats, or a more introspective Bats), but there is no denying that the psychology is there!

  • Anyone else notice that? In every film Bruce Wayne is written very poorly and Joker/Penguin/catwoman etc are given the best scenes and lines. Clooney was given nothing to do in Batman and Robin, his lines and scenes were terrible. In the next film Batman must be written as a much stronger charcter.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 12:39 p.m. CST

    ??? vs who?

    by Kentucky Colonel

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 12:41 p.m. CST

    ??? vs who?

    by Kentucky Colonel

    How about Superman vs Muhammad Ali, like in the comic book of the 1970's? Michael Mann could direct, and so on...Would you pay to see that?

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 12:57 p.m. CST

    JonQuixote, I'm callin' you out!

    by superninja

    First of all, Batman is obssessive/compulsive, not insane. I used to think he was insane, but he's just not. Second, the "characterization" of Bruce in Batman: The Movie was so paper thin that they had to throw in the Joker as the killer of the Waynes and Vicki Vale as a love interest to round out Bruce. Keaton's Bruce Wayne is a dead ringer for Batman because he has all of Batman's problems right on the surface - he's eccentric, dark, collects weapons...Clark Kent only had glasses, but at least he acted like a bumbling idiot to offset the Superman persona. Bruce Wayne is supposed to be fake, but they went out of their way to show just how nice and ordinary a guy Bruce was outside of Batman. The poor little boy that just needed someone to love. That's NOT Batman. Bruce Wayne virtually does not exist. It's still a good movie, but it's just not much of a Batman movie. It's a bizarre love triangle with Batman, Joker and Vicki Vale. I just watched this movie the other day, btw.

  • ok, i am sick of hearing that clooney and kilmer are the best, when in fact, the fuckin sucked; the best was keaton, i hope that some people can agree. I am also sick of hearing saying that schumacher was the best, everyone knows that Burton is one of the greatest directors of all time, his vision of gotham was so perfect. Schumacher on the other hand, had gotham lit up with nothing but neon lights, it's like Vegas really. also, what was up with robin, if you noticed he was like thrity in batman forever,and batgirl what the fuck, i mean they changed her from being the commisioners daughter to being alfreds niece. Sure Batman Returns wasn't all that great but i would pick that one over the last two any day. Now Superman, I loved the first two, then after that they went downhill, completely. I think the people to direct this movie is burton and donner, and the score should be done by the greatests, Danny Elfman, and John williams.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 1:19 p.m. CST

    They should really do a Green Lantern movie...

    by Renaud B

    A good GREEN LANTERN MOVIE is long overdue...here s my take on it...http://www.geocities.com/captainamerica1million/GREEN_LANTERN_THE_MOVIE_PAGE.html

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 1:23 p.m. CST

    They should really do a Green Lantern movie...

    by Renaud B

    A good GREEN LANTERN MOVIE is long overdue...here s my take on it...http://www.geocities.com/captainamerica1million/GREEN_LANTERN_THE_MOVIE_PAGE.html

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 1:33 p.m. CST

    Spielberg makes his movies . . .

    by Rollo Tomassi

    It's just that unlike the rest of Hollywood, he takes the time to develop a project properly, THEN makes. Remember, he optioned "Schindler's List" in 1982, then didn't make it for 11 years. He wasn't ready to make it then. If he had made a lesser version then, or let somebody else make a lesser version (and ANYBODY else's version would have been lesser), we would have lost what is unquestionably, far and away the best film of the 1990s (yeah, yeah, sorry Tarrantion fans, "Pulp Fiction" isn't even in the top 20). There's something to be said for patience.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 1:33 p.m. CST

    Spielberg makes his movies . . .

    by Rollo Tomassi

    It's just that unlike the rest of Hollywood, he takes the time to develop a project properly, THEN makes. Remember, he optioned "Schindler's List" in 1982, then didn't make it for 11 years. He wasn't ready to make it then. If he had made a lesser version then, or let somebody else make a lesser version (and ANYBODY else's version would have been lesser), we would have lost what is unquestionably, far and away the best film of the 1990s (yeah, yeah, sorry Tarrantio fans, "Pulp Fiction" isn't even in the top 20). There's something to be said for patience.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 1:33 p.m. CST

    Spielberg makes his movies . . .

    by Rollo Tomassi

    It's just that unlike the rest of Hollywood, he takes the time to develop a project properly, THEN makes. Remember, he optioned "Schindler's List" in 1982, then didn't make it for 11 years. He wasn't ready to make it then. If he had made a lesser version then, or let somebody else make a lesser version (and ANYBODY else's version would have been lesser), we would have lost what is unquestionably, far and away the best film of the 1990s (yeah, yeah, sorry Tarrantino fans, "Pulp Fiction" isn't even in the top 20). There's something to be said for patience.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 1:47 p.m. CST

    OCD can be a form of insanity, but I digress...

    by JonQuixote

    Sorry superninja, but perhaps YOUR Batman walks the fine line between mildly disturbed and psychotic, but the thing with Batman is there is no one definition. The 30's and 60's Batmen are neither, yet for some THOSE are the definitive versions of the character. There's plenty of room to argue for a psychotic character - Frank Miller depicted one in what is arguably the best Batman story of all time. Burton's take was quite similar. What you're disappointed in is that the character did not meet YOUR definition, which is a risk you run when depicting a character who has gone through so many incarnations. Batman's not a Superman, Cap, or even Spidey - there's been little consistency throughout his history. Burton's vision was true to the character, but it was also a personal interpretation of what makes the character tick.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 2:15 p.m. CST

    Superninja Johnson is right!

    by Village Idiot

    And she articualted what I've been saying for years: not only was Burton's Batman a bad film, but it did a disservice to Batman via sloppy and/or misguided characterization. (And supern, you may have heard the "Joker killing the parents gives Batman closure" from me once upon a time.)

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 3:24 p.m. CST

    MOTHER FOCKER

    by Witty Reference

    now it's time to talk more about ATTACK OF THE CLONES. it has a cool nickname! check what we call the other movies for short: Star Wars (A New Hope) Empire (Empire Strikes Back) Jedi (Return of the Jedi) Menace (Phantom Menace) we could call this one Attack or we could call it Clones, either one sounds cool Also, in Meet The Fockers (MTP2), they're obviously going to refer to his mother as MotherFocker. I mean, duh!!!!! The movie hasnt even been made (or even written??) and we already know the movie's biggest laugh

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 3:25 p.m. CST

    MOTHER FOCKER

    by Witty Reference

    now it's time to talk more about ATTACK OF THE CLONES. it has a cool nickname! check what we call the other movies for short: Star Wars (A New Hope) Empire (Empire Strikes Back) Jedi (Return of the Jedi) Menace (Phantom Menace) we could call this one Attack or we could call it Clones, either one sounds cool Also, in Meet The Fockers (MTP2), they're obviously going to refer to his mother as MotherFocker. I mean, duh!!!!! The movie hasnt even been made (or even written??) and we already know the movie's biggest laugh

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 3:55 p.m. CST

    chastin86, that is solved simply

    by superninja

    Just like in Dini/Timm's animated World's Finest Movie. Batman operates at night, Bruce Wayne operates during the day. You have Supes showing up at night to tail Bats as he hunts down gangsters in Gotham.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 4:06 p.m. CST

    Bruce Wayne is supposed to be (blank)!

    by JonQuixote

    There is very little "supposed to be" with Batman. Village, Burton's film had misguided characterization? How? How is it misguided? Different from the comic, maybe, but the comics are often different from the comics that came before. How similar is the Bob Kane Batman to the 60's "oh no, Joker turned me into a fish" Batman, to the middle-road early 80's Batman to the hyper-violent, on-the-edge Miller version? Burton's take wasn't misguided...it was just different than what you expected or wanted. Bruce Wayne is supposed to be a front? Burton said, 'no...there's a real Bruce Wayne that exists separately from Batman.' He had two personas, which sorta came together at the climax (which is probably dime school psychology at its finest, but whatever, we ARE talking about a comic book here). Don't complain about Batman finding his parents' killer...he also did that in the comic books (at least pre-Crisis), and still kept fighting crime (though I will admit, I like the idea that he never knows who it was much much better). The fact that the film had the Joker as the killer also plays into the similarities structure that Burton was working with. "I say 'I made you' so you gotta say 'I made you first.' How childish can you get?" Tune in next week as I defend the 'all-Prince' soundtrack!

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 4:07 p.m. CST

    I am thoroughly bored of the Miller Batman, JonQuixote.

    by superninja

    It's an Elseworlds tale about a future possibility. Like Superman is going to be a government shill...It's not my favorite Batman work. That would actually be the Dini/Timm cartoon. The writers really latched onto the Miller characterization and took Batman in a darker direction, which is fine. By medical definition he could be classified as psychotic. But I'm talking about the use of the word to describe insanity, which Batman is not. He's more like a control freak and a bad father (Devin Grayson said this on the Batman panel at the Con) that's obsessed with cleaning up Gotham city. These stand-alone stories like DKR and Killing Joke are ultimate Batman stories that contribute to the character, but do not override the ongoing characterization. Bruce Wayne is the mask, Batman is the man. None of the movies have hit on this at all.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 4:12 p.m. CST

    Renaud Bedard

    by JonQuixote

    Dude, anybody that would even CONSIDER, let alone suggest, David Hasselhoff as Superman doesn't even deserve to read comic books, let alone talk about them. Consider this a warning. Next time your membership will be revoked.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 4:14 p.m. CST

    Yeah, it's just my opinion.

    by superninja

    There have been many incarnations of Batman. But Jon, you admit that it is better that Batman never knows his parents killer. You know the reason they made Joker the killer was because Screenwriting 101 says to do just that. Now, it's PERSONAL for Batman. There were so many missed opportunities in that movie. One thing that Dini used that the movie didn't (Dini says his Joker is derivative of Nicholson's) was that it drives Mr. J nuts that Bats won't laugh at his jokes. That was a subplot in the Killing Joke, even. The best part of rewatching Batman: The Movie was to see where Dini got the animated Joker influences from. And I will admit to liking the Prince Sountrack. I'm saying it's still a good movie, I just think there's a BETTER Batman movie to be made.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 4:21 p.m. CST

    Damn you, JonQuixote

    by superninja

    Party Man is stuck in my head now...>:(

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 4:25 p.m. CST

    Comic book continuity

    by JonQuixote

    Film isn't bound by continuity, nor should it be. A Batman movie would always be an 'elseworlds' tale. You may be bored of the Miller Batman by now, but remember that you have 15 years of knock-offs and new visions to go on. When they came out, they were fresh as a daisy. You seem to think that I'm arguing the Burton or Miller Batmen are the definitive interpretations, but I'm not. I'm only arguing that they are valid interpretations. Burton didn't betray the character, he just offered a slightly different take on it. It's not my favorite vision of Batman either, but I liked it (for the record, my favorite Batman is Grant Morrison's JLA version.) I'd be all for, in fact I would prefer, a new interpretation in a new film, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate the old one. Oh, and I was using psychotic as a disorder distinguished by amoral or antisocial behavior. I looked it up this afternoon (and as a curious sidenote, the second definition was 'any millionaire who goes out at night dressed up as a bat and beats the shit out of criminals due to emotional trauma experienced as a child').

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 4:27 p.m. CST

    If a man is considered guilty for what goes on in his mind/ then

    by JonQuixote

    I love that quote.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 4:32 p.m. CST

    The shitty thing about growing up in Canada is that I have so li

    by JonQuixote

    I've seen enough to know that the Animated Series was pretty awesome (if not occasionally juvinile or simplistic). I absolutely LOVED Sub-Zero, and, though I only saw the for-mass-consumption version, thought the Batman Beyond movie was pretty sweet..ESPECIALLY the Jokes part. *** Anyways, I ALSO agree that there is a better Batman movie to be made (and I have major high hopes for Year One), but I still think the Burton version was pretty good, (maybe even the best comic movie I've seen yet) But, this whole thing started when you said that Burton's Batman is devoid of psychology, when in fact that it is loaded with MindHead shit. Acknowledge that I'm right on that point and I'll not only shut up, but give you the cure for your Partyman disease. Refuse my request, and face the consequences (All hail the new king in town/ Young and old gather round).

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 4:48 p.m. CST

    The World's Finest Odds & Ends and A Whole Lotta Rantin'.

    by Comedian

    First to the newbies: ***kdraines- The last thing I want is for that over rated egomaniacal hack David Fincher to do Batman. His movies look great but they have NO SOUL. Sure, he know's how to do bleak, doom and gloom but I couldn't give a fuck about any of his characters. Having him do a Batman flick would be like having Michael Bay do Superman flick. Great pretentious eye candy for angry little teeny boppers but he'd probably wax right over the core of the character without a second thought. Plus they offered it to him a few years ago and he turned them down(he did the same with X-Men). So fuck him. Besides, do you really wanna see Brad Pitt in a Batsuit. Yeech. ***bc1970- The only thing X-Men proved is that any hack can make a Superhero movie if he just sticks to the core material and doesn't fuck with it(albeit with said hack being dragged along kicking and screaming). ALL YOU DINI PEOPLE- Shut the fuck up. Of course they can do a better job than the cartoon. GROW UP.*** And now for my dear old friends and fellow a$$holes(Ninja, Quixote, and Idiot). It's good to see more than two of you on this talkback. Lately, all it's been is all these 15 year old newbies with the same assinine opinions. *** Superninja, darling. Have you ever danced with the devil by the pale moon light? So glad to have you back(by the way, What are gonna wear .... TO CAP'S FUNERAL!). I'm kinda with you on Burton screwing up Batman in the first one(though that one line will always stick with me. I've actually used it as a pick up line one or twice). But I think he and Keaton made up for it in Batman Returns. That flick just had a stupid ending. And Yes, BATMAN IS CRAZY. If I had to pop-psycho analyse him I'd say he's a paranoid sociopath with obsessive, compulsive tendencies. And yes BRUCE WAYNE IS A MASK. I mean, the guy goes out every night dressed like fucking Dracula beating the shit out of people. Just the odd fixation alone is nuts. Sure, in 1939 the idea of a guy going out dressed like a Bat would be kind of creepy. But in 2001 it's just kinda weird. I've always thought that most criminals are scared shitless by Batman not because "They are a cowardly and supersticious lot" but because most of them are just frightened by what a nut he is. Once he's doing the Clint Eastwood bit and hanging them upside down off a roof top. They're basically peeing their pants whether he's dressed like a Bat or Platypus. But when you put him next to his Rogues gallery, he's a saint. ***As far as a "World's Finest" movie goes. Let's see some decent solo Batman & Superman projects first. Smallville looks like it was shot really well for TV anyway(anybody notice that a lot of the shots have this very subtle Red, Blue and Yellow color dynamic). And as somebody who never really liked Roswell to begin with I think I'll give it a try. But I don't think it has legs because it's just such a cheap, stupid idea. I mean, if Lex Luthor and Clark Kent are best friends in youth than HOW THE FUCK COULD OLDER LEX NOT KNOW THAT CLARK IS SUPERMAN!?!?! What are they gonna have Braniac invade Smallville at the end of the series and erase everyone's memory. But I'll give it a few episodes before I've made a final judgement. It is pretty scummy of them to run it in the same time slot and in direct competition with Roswell, though. The only World's Finest movie I want to see is THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS. Which will never happen. So here's my cast. CLINT EASTWOOD as Batman. GENE HACKMAN(Popey Doyle himself. Hey Darren, here's your French Connection homage)as Gordon. JULIE NEWMAR(Yes,THE Julie Newmar)as the older Selina Kyle whose now a maddam. WARREN BEATTY as Harvey Dent. LINDSAY LOHAN(the kid from The Parent Trap)as Carrie Kelly/Robin. MALCOLM MCDOWELL as The Joker(Sorry, NO JACK. Think of McDowell's Joker as middle aged 'Alex' if it helps). And BURT REYNOLDS(clean shaven, complete with jet black die job and matching rug)AS SUPERMAN. Can you see that final fight with Eastwood kicking the shit out of him telling him what a phoney Gov't tool he's turned in to.*** Oh Yeah and Wity Reference. Please no more "Attack of the Clones" talk, PLEASE. Or I might split my sides again... Oh. what the hell. {Thick Scottish Brogue}"AYE JUHST HAHR-R-RD THA NUH STAR-R-R WAR-R-RS MOOFIE IS GUHNA BE CAHLED UTTAK UH THA CLUHNS" "NAUGHHHHHHHHH!" "BWAHAHAHAHAHA!" It never get's old, does it.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 4:56 p.m. CST

    Nope. No can do.

    by superninja

    See, there was psychology, but it was so very pat and simplistic. Ooohh, Bruce Wayne is disturbed, he dresses up like a bat! He's rich, but he's deep...really! We know Bruce is much, much more far gone. Instead, we get melancholy Brucie having a one nighter with the "intriguing" (hehe..Hee hee..HA HAHAHAHAH!!) Vicki Vale. After a few dates, he decides to "let her in" (NOT bloody likely) as Alfred goes on about how special she is like he banged her himself! You really think that it makes sense from a logic standpoint that a guy this disturbed is so desperate to reach out to someone that he'd pick VICKI VALE?! I'd believe hookers before I'd buy that. Watch it again and listen to their dialogue and I dare you to try to not picture Batman in the cast of All My Children.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 5:03 p.m. CST

    Comedian.

    by superninja

    What have you kids been up to around here? I've been ignoring AICN for awhile because the topics haven't been doing much for me. Paul Dini & Bruce Timm still made the best Batman movie to date, so quityerbitchin!***You know WHY Warner Bros. will never make a cool Batman movie? Because they will never make Batman an a$$hole and they'll never cast him in shadow to play on his urban myth status because it would compromise their precious "name" actor and we won't be able to see their toys, i.e. merchandise.****Cap isn't going to die. If you say that again, you just see what happens!

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 5:28 p.m. CST

    Dearest Superninja....

    by Comedian

    Yeah, the topics have been pretty lame lately. And there are all these newbies who aren't that interesting to talkback with. Buzz, Sleazy, Socko and the rest pop their heads up every once in a while but other than that it's been kinda dull. But on topic. You really think Joe Q and his hit or miss "We so bad. We don't need no code." regime ain't gonna bump off CAP to sell a few more comics. I'm hoping not. But I wouldn't put it past em. Which reminds me. TWO ISSUES LATER, X-FORCE STILL ROCKS THE FUCKING HOUSE DOWN! I'm seriously considering trying to get my current 'lady friend' to be U-GO-GIRL for holloween so that I can be THE ANARCHIST. We'd just get a bunch cheesy prop skeletons and dress them like the rest of the team in tattered costumes and then throw this kick ass party. But proposing that kinda geeky shit would make me a lonely man once more, wouldn't it. And then I'd have to start harrassing you again..heh heh. {comic book store guy voice}"Oh, why can't they all be like you, my Mysterious Masked Vixen of Vengence!" cheers.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 5:44 p.m. CST

    First there was no psychology, now there's lots but it's pat and

    by JonQuixote

    I mean, I'll agree that you don't exactly need a PhD to follow what Burton was going for...but I don't want a movie that hits me with the psychobabble I hear in my seminars. Burton said, 'what would make a Batman tick', thought about it, and delivered his interpretation. Period. You don't have to like it, but it's there, the whole movie is about it and you can't argue with that! (you know I'm right...it's there, good or bad...i took a stonewall position...nyah nyah)And I'm totally with you on the Vicki Vale thing, but the Vicki/identity thing is such a minor aspect of the plot anyways, and obviously it doesn't 'heal' him, because he kicks her to the curb long before Pfeiffer shows her puss, and he's still out there blowing up clowns and playing with his wonderful toys. It could be better, but that's the mantra of EVERY comic book movie ever made. Can't wait for the Aronofsky version though. Different is good.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 7:19 p.m. CST

    My Apologies Superninja.....

    by Comedian

    CAP ain't kicking the bucket...THOR IS!!! Ah, I was never really into him. The Simonson stuff is great but that's just cause Beta Ray Bill kicked ass(Kinda, the reverse of Steel & Superman. Where the cheesy sidekick/knock off is actually cooler than the main hero. I always thought his big fanbase was bikers and gay nazi's anyway. Here's the link http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=279.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 7:21 p.m. CST

    This won't happen

    by KingKrypton

    ...simply because it would contradict whatever desecrations Peters and WB (and perhaps Tim Burton, who's rumored to be coming back to SUPERMAN LIVES)want to do to Superman and would interfere with BATMAN: YEAR ONE. WB would never want to interfere with Jon Peters' "vision." Heck, they're apparently patching things up with Hackboy Burton to bring him back to finish the job of destroying Supes. Do you honestly think they're going to turn their backs on their pet filmmakers to make a movie that might actually be good? Not a chance. File this "World's Finest" idea under NEVER. Oh, and I disagree with the idea that turning Superman over to Michael Mann would stop Jon Peters from pulling a Burton on the character. This is one project where Peters would steamroll Mann on.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 7:36 p.m. CST

    PAUL DINI

    by 28

    IF YOU WANT TO MAKE AN EXCELLENT BATMAN MOTION PICTURE GET PAUL DINI TO WRITE THE SCREENPLAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 7:41 p.m. CST

    Bring back Clooney

    by coop

    I'd see this movie, but it'll never be made. Warner should not blame Clooney for that last fiasco, that was 100% Schumacher's fault. With a script by Walker it might actually be interesting.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 8:07 p.m. CST

    Comedian & JonQuixote

    by superninja

    Comedian, Thor isn't dying. He's going to become King Conan. Odin croaked and so did the Silver Surfer. Sorry if I spoiled it for ya, pal! The thing with Cap is everyone is bringing up the legal battle between Marvel and his creator, and the speculation is that Steve Rogers is going to die, and that someone else is going to become Cap. If that's the case, I'm not going to be reading Captain America anymore. There's too much history invested in this character. Besides, I don't want Steve Rogers coming back made out of blue lightning or some such shit. Can't anyone see that Jurgens needs to stay away from comics? He killed Superman lamely, he killed Odin lamely, and now he's going to kill SOMEONE in the Cap title. One thing I don't like about Joe Q is that he's following the Authority thing from DC. I was kind of hoping the Millerized characterization was on the outs. There's nothing wrong with moral heroes, and morals are never outdated. Maybe they make some people feel guilty and want to shrug off what the characters are about because they don't want to thing about the degredation of our society, but I think it's something to aspire to (It's why my mom keeps telling me that I might as well join a convent if I'm waiting for Supes or Cap to walk into my life. But that's another conversation :D). If everyone is a walking timebomb, it makes things boring. Cap and Superman create a fascinating contrast when juxtaposed with other characters in their respective universes. It also makes them the hardest to write in a compelling way, but I don't think you should throw the baby out with the bathwater. You could put either Supes or Cap in a very dark, realistic setting, ditch some of the boyscout lingo, and Cap could still be Cap, Supes would still be Supes. It's why I wanted Greg Rucka to write him over at Marvel Knights, but I'm kind of dissapointed about rumors that it's going to take place in WWII. It's a great setting, but I think it says something about our society when people can only accept the character in an old-fashioned setting. No matter how the world changes, I don't think they should. However, I'm looking forward to The Ultimates (Millar/Hitch) - a new take on the Avengers, and I'm continuing to enjoy X-Force.****JonQuixote. I'm not talking about psychobable. Burton's Batman was all surface. There was no real exploration of his struggle to be Bruce Wayne AND Batman, which is something I want to see in the next Batman movie. I want to see Batman give up Bruce Wayne because of his obsession with his mission and the sacrifice to him personally that comes with that. And also how it affects Alfred. It must be sad for Alfred to see this boy he raised as a son be so angry and obsessed that he gives up everything, trapped in the mindset of a nine-year-old boy that lost his parents. Batman didn't need a love interest in the first film, he needed to be established as to why he is the way he is. In fact, it might be interesting if the first film is told from Alfred's POV. I can just imagine a narrative over the establishing shot panning over Wayne Manor to a family walking through an alley in Gotham, "Once upon a time, there was a boy. He had everything could ever need...loving parents, a fine home...and in one day, it was all stolen from him, in the most brutal way imaginable. This is his story." And then Batman kicks some serious ass on a couple of muggers attacking a family in an alley. Now, I'm just being egocentric, heheh. But Burton only scratched the surface by making him tortured over his parents deaths, but it goes a lot deeper than than him just putting a pair of roses in the alley and Vicki Vale going "Omigod, his parents were killed there." Burton kind of reminds me of Kubrick (SIMMER DOWN NOW FANBOYS!) in that I think he likes to put the audience in the place of his characters. He wants us to empathize with them. Which is fine, but I don't know if that's the best way to approach Batman. Batman is not loveable. He's an asshole, but he's a tragic asshole. And he's definitely not like the rest of us.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 8:24 p.m. CST

    coop

    by superninja

    What's interesting is that after Batman & Robin came out and was both publicly and critically panned, Clooney was basically blaming himself for the fiasco. Maybe to take the heat off of the producers, etc...I don't know why he was saying the things he did. Maybe he was just throwing his hands up at the fans because they hated it so much, which I can't blame him for. That's why this story seems bogus, because Clooney's comments made him sound like he never wanted to touch the character again.

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 8:36 p.m. CST

    Clint E. and other

    by moira_lc

    Actually, Clint Eastwood will play Bruce Wayne in the Batman Beyond live action movie. Regarding who is the real person, Bruce Wayne or Batman, the recent JLA series with split personalities made the point best.(and incidently, inferentially made the point that Bruce will never find his parents' killer). Bruce is real; he is the obsessed, unchanneled anger and he created Batman to give order, discipline and direction to his chaos.Batman is definitely real, but without Bruce he has no passion, anger, loss and hurt to drive him. Both personnas are there in the same person and confusion and craziness can sometimes surface - that controlled surface is papered over a pretty complex entity. Personally, I think he is far and away the most original, interesting, real and complex heroic character ever - the only possible comparison being to Ulysses(Odysseus) a possible character model Moira

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 9:08 p.m. CST

    supernija and moira jr are both right

    by MGTHEDJ

    moira jr if the JLA did deal with Bats pesonality then that is a valid example. superninja (hey girl) the ep from the Timm/Dini incarnation that shows Bruce is the mask is where Bats is tangleing with either Mad Hatter or Scarecrow (sorry it's been two years since i saw the ep all the way through) and in the end Bats reveals that he knew things were wrong since the voice in his head called him Bruce, and Bats said "In my head I never call myself Bruce." As to "World's Finest" I think this is just one more job for some writer to justify having his rent and electic bills paid by AOL Time Warner.-----later-----m

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 9:14 p.m. CST

    sorry moira lc about your name

    by MGTHEDJ

    dang 14" monitor here at work. m

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 10:45 p.m. CST

    moral hero - modern setting

    by moira_lc

    (to MGTHEDJ no offense taken - I can barely read the darn thing myself) superninja, we may not agree on BW/Bats, but I liked your point on a moral hero. This is NOT a reaction I would have seen myself having, but I have come to realise that Supes is an excellent example of how this can fit and be interesting if the writing is any good. Case in point -- ACTION COMICS 775. When I saw the subtitle"whats so funny about truth, justice, and the American Way" my immediate reaction was AAARRGH!! GONNA BE BAD! And I was totally wrong! The Writer, The Artists, they nailed this one good. No sentimentality, wonderful bad guy, modern setting, moral hero and it was one of my best reads for this year. I never would have believed it. Which is one reason I would love to see a Bats/Supes movie if it had strong and wonderful writing. Two moral guys in terrific contrast, but there are a lot of logical comments already posted here, sadly, that spell out why it will probably never happen. Moira

  • Aug. 8, 2001, 11:31 p.m. CST

    Once Again, They Approached Clint About Playing BATMAN. Let's Li

    by Buzz Maverik

    "You want me to run around in tights? Not me, brother. Not me." "No one wants you to run around it tights, Clint--" "Good. And I'm not wearing that plastic shit with the nipples and ass muscles either." "No, it's not going to be like that, Clint--" "That's for sure." "You'd be playing an older Batman, who comes back." "I guess you could call it BAT COWBOYS." "Heh, heh. Good one, Clint." "What did I tell you about kissing my ass?" "You told me not to do it. Sorry, Clint." "The thing you gotta know about me playing Batman, junior, is...I don't do sci-fi." "It's not sci-fi--" "I gave up sci-fi after TARANTULA. I told Schwartzeneggar not to do sci-fi but the punk never listens." "It's not sci-fi, Clint." "What would you call it? A historical drama?" "Heh, heh. You're crackin' me up, Clint...Sorry, I was kissing you ass again, wasn't I?" "That's alright. You just can't help it."

  • Aug. 9, 2001, 12:01 a.m. CST

    Clint:Wish you were there, Buzz

    by moira_lc

    And I do hope your tiny but oh so powerful high-tech spy ears were actually pressed to that wall 'cause Clint is not my first choice for Bruce or Bats. Though maybe I will have to adjust. Meanwhile, just writing what I do hear, not what I wish I heard. Moira

  • Aug. 9, 2001, 3:24 a.m. CST

    Batman insane?Whatreyounuts?

    by Sabretooth1974

    Batman never had a split personality disorder any more than any one else who ever donned the tights. He was always one person with the cover of Bruce Wayne. And as for the redemption of killing his parents killer, as Val stated in part 3 once you killed the killer, you'll only go on looking for another face in the night. But Batman was only partly about mindless vengance, he was also a protector with a code, albeit a brutal one, otherwise a boyscout like Superman would never let him loose in society let alone work with him. A side note, All three Batmen have lacked in the physicality dept. Whats up with hiding behind the body armor when he's supposed to be a master of hand to hand combat that strikes from the shadows. That's what they need to bring back and get rid of the campy villans, the buttraping of Bane's character is one reason they'll have to shake things up to get my butt back in the theatre seat for a sequel.

  • Aug. 9, 2001, 8:36 a.m. CST

    Moira, I Called Clint To Confirm. Here's A Transcript Of Our Con

    by Buzz Maverik

    "Yeah?" "Clint! It's Buzz." "Maverik! When are we shooting skeet next?" "Soon, I hope, Clint." "You owe me a rematch." "Only if you let me use one of your Purdeys." "Get your own damned Purdey, kid." "I would, if you'd buy one of my scripts." "Your scripts are too goddam weird, I keep tellin' ya. You should write a cop movie." "I've written four cop scripts." "They're too goddam weird." "That from a man that made two movies costarring a monkey." "That monkey was one of the best co-stars I ever had. He was on time. He knew his lines. Too bad his trainer killed him. He was supposed to co-star with me in CITY HEAT but we had to go with Burt instead. Give me the monkey any day." "Yeah--" "Say, Buzz, you're into this sci-fi shit. They want me to play a guy named Stick in a superhero movie called RED DEVIL. I told 'em that Reynolds already played Stick and did a damned fine job of it." "He sure did, Clint. Listen, I'm calling about another superhero movie--" "Somebody's always offering me one of those. They want me to play Superman now. I told 'em I don't do sci-fi." "I think that's Batman, Clint." "No, it's sci-fi." "No, I think they want you to play Batman." "Not me, brother. I took the kids to see the last one that Schwartzeneggar was in, where he played Captain Cold. You think I'm going to wear a giant plastic crotch?" "Well, on the AICN talkbacks, Moira said you were." "Moira? What does Moira know? Who the hell is Moira?" "I'm not sure, Clint. But she said you were playing Batman." "Oh, she said that, huh? We'll see about that. You know who should play an old Batman?" "Nick Nolte?" "Not bad. But I'm thinking Jack." "Nicholson?" "Yeah. He was in the first one. Played the Clown. He's old. And he does sci-fi." "Thanks, Clint. I'll tell Moira." "So when are we skeet shooting? You can bring this Moira along if you want."

  • Aug. 9, 2001, 2:55 p.m. CST

    Welcome Back all you Loud Corneas

    by JonQuixote

    or whatever the fuck it is Vroom Socko calls us. Anyways...*** Superninja. One of those agree to disagree things (not that I didn't see it coming a mile away), but I always saw the Vicki Vale exposition scenes, like tracking down Bruce's history, as plot, not psychological exploration. I wasn't a big fan of that shit, but I saw it as somewhat necessary since you wouldn't BELIEVE how little of comic backstory non-obsessive fans know. To test this theory, I phoned my Mom and asked her if she knew why Batman fights crime. After much deliberation, she came to the conclusion that his mom was killed by the Penguin. Then she yelled at me for not calling more often, so thanks a lot! (For the record, to further expand this theory...if you ask people the same question regarding Spider-Man, everybody knows he was bitten by a radioactive Spider...NOBODY knows shit about Uncle Ben). Anyways, when I talk about the psychology in the first one, I think the subtle stuff is found in more subtle areas...and the whole Vicki Vale/ Knox shit is just plot filler. *** Sleazy G, the Batman soundtrack is...well, beyond defense. Still, it has its moments, and I LOVE Electric Chair...at least for the lyrics. And what is it with you fanboys jumping to the defense of Superninja ad nauseum? Don't get me wrong, I think she's exceptionally bright, well-spoken and knows what she's talking about (usually), but it seems that everybody on this talkback who knows she's a chick keeps giving her verbal cunnilingus. I guess it's just one of those things that makes me glad I'm asexual. *** Buzz. Funny shit. Write more. Yer pal, JQ.

  • Bwahahahahahahahahaha!! Quixote, I think you've just been promoted. Sleazy, that means you're back on monitor duty. Now everyone listen up. That evil studio exec who won

  • Aug. 9, 2001, 9:32 p.m. CST

    dead skeets and hockey season

    by moira_lc

    OK, Buzz, you gotta talk to your man Clint. I mean,aaaarrrugh, NICK?? NOLTE?? Yeah, Right, when Skeet grow wings! Nope, Clint's still stuck in the rumour saddle, though like I said before, even I hope it's just a bad rumour. Moira. (who is always over the limit, out of season and collects dead skeet for hockey pucks).

  • Aug. 9, 2001, 10:45 p.m. CST

    Lead On, Comedian

    by moira_lc

    For sure, Comedian, that remake definitely has Evil Plot (heh) written all over it. "secretely"?? Yes, I'd say there is secretion potential here; I'll bring boots and helmet when I tag up -- (I Never tag along) Moira

  • Aug. 10, 2001, 12:15 a.m. CST

    Ebonic Plague: Nailed the problem with the wayn Batman/Wayne is

    by Mayhem Ensues

    You nailed it! I've always felt that Batman/Wayne was always portrayed wrong in the films but could never really put my finger on it. I just read your AICN post where you wrote that "Bruce Wayne is just a front, Batman is always in Batman mode, it's just that sometimes he pretends he's NOT Batman to fool people." - THAT summed it up perfectly. The films always play up the duality of Batman/Wayne as if he had a split personality - but the truth is that there is ONLY Batman. If it were up to him he'd probably never bother with the Wayne persona at all... but he has to keep up appearences in order to further his ends (If Wayne Corp goes under how's he gonna finance his crusade?) And you're damn right he's an asshole - he's a crime fighting 'machine' for Christs sake. He's trained his mind and body to the peak of human ability AND has trained himself in any/every discipline that would help him in his mission - he could give a rats ass about niceties.

  • Aug. 10, 2001, 1:47 a.m. CST

    Which came first...

    by Huneybee

    The man or the bat? According to the story, it was the man, Bruce Wayne. But, IMO, it is the bat which sustains the man. Without an outlet for his angst, Bruce Wayne might, indeed, be insane. Without the ability to help others, as he was unable to help his parents, he would loose all touch with reality. He is co-dependent. He is willing to help others to his own detriment and it is that fact which is the driving force behind Batman. To me, it does not matter which is the stronger character, it matters that the two are one. Albert became his father figure and, later, Robin became his

  • Aug. 10, 2001, 1:06 p.m. CST

    Dang, I left this houseparty a while ago, and I drive by only to

    by Village Idiot

    And I'm afraid to comment since the reading required to keep me from repeating someone else is longer and denser than Das Kapital. Dang. Oh well, maybe next time.