Review

PLANET OF THE APES (2001) review

Published at: July 27, 2001, 3:42 a.m. CST by headgeek

This is going to be a spoiler review of PLANET OF THE APES by Tim Burton. Why? Because given some of the belligerence and out right anger I witnessed tonight at a public sneak here in Austin, Texas… Well the film is going to have a very loudly vocal HATE MOB that will scream assaults at the film without ever thinking about what they are seeing… From where it all comes… And why it is that it is the way it is.

I’m not going to pretend that I am right to anyone other than myself, but perhaps by writing this all out, some of you may come to appreciate a film that otherwise might have frustrated you.

Before I get to the spoilers, I’ll deal with the non-plot orientated areas of the review, so you folks that have to read something, will have something to read.

There are very few absolutely fantastic beyond doubt aspects to this film, which I like quite a bit, but do not love, but may come to.

Rick Baker’s work is, as we could all tell from the trailers… Simply genius. Baker has so far surpassed any and all ‘personal’ special effects make-up artists that I really and truly just constantly remain in utter awe of the man. Sure, there are many other people responsible for the make-up beyond just him, but it is with his techniques and guiding hand that the make-up becomes ALIVE. Had nothing else worked, I would have simply stared in awe at this work. Tim Roth’s Thade is… wow. Watching Roth work within the make-up is just… Wow. Watch the way an Academy Award winning cinematographer photographs supreme make up… This looks a hundred times better than computer generated characters. Here, because of Baker’s make up, we see the actors transforming their entire body language and physicality… their emotional and psychological reactions to the physical stimuli around them.

Now, while make-up alone would get me to watch this film again, admittedly I entered film fandom wanting to grow up to be just like Lon Chaney Sr. But beyond that we have a wonderful score by Danny Elfman. Concussive and dynamic. Then there is Wahlberg’s complete indifference to the world he’s faced with. I love his distance, it isn’t outrage or fear… He knows, simply, that he has to get off this crazy planet. He accepts that in a strange bizarre cosmos of infinite possibilities that this could be one of those possibilities and decides to simply try to get out of there. COMPLETELY UNDERSTANDABLE. It’s like when you get a flat tire on the side of the road. You know that it sucks, that it is a pain in the ass, that it isn’t fair… but you get out there, pull out the jack and the spare and get on with your life. Either that or you’re an emotionally overactive retard crying at the steering wheel not willing to move forward, desperately dialing roadside service in the prayers that the Texas Chainsaw Massacre family isn’t occupying that house right over there.

Wahlberg isn’t here to change things, but to leave. He came searching for his monkey and got more than he bargained for. Now it’s time to just move on.

The Apes and all the fuzzy species of this planet rule. David Warner as a senator filled me with a delight I was not expecting. Glen Shadix is a GOD. That’s right Otho from BEETLEJUICE, the Mayor from NIGHTMARE BEFORE CHRISTMAS… For me I could just see Rick Baker looking at Shadix and saying, "Now this has the potential for my masterpiece!"

I believe, without a doubt that Shadix’s & Baker’s Senator Nado is one of the greatest works of make-up in history. An utterly amazing achievement. Shadix transforms the make-up, as very few actors in history have into a place to become born anew. I have never seen Shadix resonate quite like this… Regal and boisterous. It reminded me, if ever so briefly of the great Charles Laughton in SPARTACUS, oh how I wish Shadix had as strong a part to play, but oh… in this character there was greatness. The sort of greatness that too briefly hits the silver screen these days.

Problems with the film. Oh yes, there are many. Once again Tim Burton shows that he is not meant for action filmmaking on a grand scale. Burton has exhibited only once in his career the potential for this area. In SLEEPY HOLLOW, when he had Ray Parks being the ‘in the costume’ genius of the Headless Horseman. But here, there is no fluidity of action. It is just a messy jumble of flying apes. Hey, I love apes, I think the furry bastards rule… But I simply could not handle all the leaping about stuff. The pummeling of enemies was wonderfully apish. But the pandemonium anarchy of it all just didn’t work well for the audience or myself.

The human characters that were native to the Planet of the Apes were just tediously boring. What was gained by having the humans talking? They didn’t say anything of interest. Nothing they talked about moved the plot forward. Nothing they said gave us insight into their characters. Keeping them mute, but understanding language would have been stronger. And this is indicative of a larger problem… the fact that I wish all the humans would just shut up, and let’s watch the apes do their thing… Well, this is typical Tim Burton.

Burton understands the odd, the strange, the unusual. However, he is bored with humans in general. These were outcasts, but not outcasts like Burton’s outcasts. Burton’s outcasts were in Ape make-up. The humans came straight from the sets of such classics as WATERWORLD and THE POSTMAN, but even blander.

Thankfully, we don’t focus on them much, but enough to be distracting, thus my desire to muzzle these soulless (THADE IS RIGHT) humans.

Here in this film we see the key flaws of Burton and the key joys of him as well.

Burton is a fetish filmmaker. I walk into a Burton film knowing that so long as the characters are ‘strange and unusual’ Burton will make me love them. However, if he attempts to direct a character that say… approaches normalcy well, he can’t for the life of himself make them interesting. This is why it is so important that he direct GEEK LOVE as soon as humanly possible.

The key problem with the film is that this isn’t a complete reimagination of the PLANET OF THE APES by Tim Burton. This was a project that Burton was brought in on late in the game… and sort of put a tad of his mark on.

He spent his time on the Apes, but never figured out the humans. Had Burton had another 6 months to work on the script and to figure out what the people on this planet would be like. How to play the ‘human slavery’ thing on out. Perhaps explore the slave camps as being more than cages, but areas where the humans tried to survive… created songs and mythologies… Simple things. Perhaps these people over thousands of years might have created a semi religious belief in a savior.

Perhaps if the humans behaved more like say… a trained animal. Perhaps if they were made to feel ugly and insecure about themselves. An environment where a babe like Estella Warren, would feel terribly ugly and horrible about herself, in comparison to the beautiful ChimpGal- played by Helena Bonham Carter.

Perhaps reimagining it to the point to where Wahlberg would be the ONLY human, and that on this Planet humans are a myth like Unicorns and Dragons. And here… finally is one. And it represents a philosophical threat to a world where the Apes believed they were the only life in the galaxy.

However, in this half-reimagined version… there’s quite a bit that I love and quite a bit that I’m unhappy with and at the end of the film… The ending of the movie… WELL, it actually saves the film and pushes it into the area of potential uber coolness.

Now… to be able to get into this, I have to discuss spoilers. And you might want to get the film completely free of this type of spoiler. Maybe you didn’t get mentally raped by Matt Drudge’s stupid selfish and malicious act of knee-jerk reactionism. Something that I believe is new to Matt Drudge, who… ahem… always thinks things out.

SO BEWARE OF SPOILERS!!!! DO NOT READ BEYOND THIS POINT!!!!! COME BACK AFTER YOU’VE SEEN THE ENTIRE FILM!!!!!

Ok, first off… Having seen the film, let me confirm that indeed Matt Drudge did spoil the end of the film. His denial that what he did was even about the ending of the film, just shows that he was responding to a single bit of information that was brought to his attention out of context, and him in a misguided attempt of having an exclusive (one that he did not fully investigate before publishing… something that he’s never done before I’m sure, though I have)

WHY does the ending of PLANET OF THE APES save the film for me?

Because it is beautifully Rod Serling… Because it is a wonderful BIZARRO/SUPERMAN story… Because, it is the final signature on the film by Tim Burton saying… well, we dealt with the material in the book, but now… now let’s leave it where I’m really interested in telling a story.

First off… What is the ending exactly? That’s a question that I heard a lot of the audience that attended this sneak ponder.

Is it the future of Earth? An Alternate Dimensional Earth?

The ending is a cautionary tale about genetic engineering gone astray. You see, on the spaceship at the beginning of the film, we learn that earth types are genetically re-engineering various primate types to become smarter and more interactive with man to perform various dangerous operations.

OK… We learn that. At the end of the battle on the Planet of the Apes, we have learned that the planet is the way it is because the Oberon crashed, thereby releasing the animals that were genetically engineered, who eventually revolted against their human masters, and took over. Then with a thousand years of advanced evolution due to the unstable DNA messed with man, the Apes are now far more advanced than they should be… and thus the Planet of the Apes.

Now, we see Wahlberg fly back to Earth through the bizarre time portal/dimensional shift thingee… Well, in flying back to Earth he hit another time jump, sending him a thousand or so years into the future of Earth… An Earth that had been genetically engineering primates… and where the apes, like on the crash landed planet, revolted and took over. Thereby reforming the planet into their own image.

Now, why do I love that?

Because, the reactions of the Apes on this planet to seeing a man was SHOCK. Like they had never seen one before. Perhaps here, on this future, the Apes had completely killed all humans, and now… here at the end of our film, Wahlberg is indeed the last of the dodos… a beautiful and unique snowflake of the past. Set to be placed in a zoo and for public display for the rest of his unnatural life. And that… that is Tim Burton. That’s the mark that I loved.

The rest of the film had a thorough mixture of delight in the makeup and actors beneath… and disappointment in the unresolved. This is Tim Burton’s most uneven film to date. The least of his work in my opinion. At the same time, this is now the high water mark in Rick Baker’s career.

Though I do wish this had been better conceived and thought out… I do like quite a bit of what is here. It is a mixed bag, that has amazing amazing things that I love.

These are the hardest films to review… the mixed bag… the film you wish was more than what it is, but that I still enjoyed. Believe it or not, you can enjoy a flawed thing. It was like the Boba Fett action figure I sent off for as a kid that was supposed to a have a launching missile from his back… Sure, it came without the missile being able to be launched. And I was momentarily angry about it, but soon I began playing with my flawed toy. Using my imagination to help the toy be something more than a non-firing missile toy. And then when I saw Boba Fett in EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, and his missile thing didn’t fire… I wasn’t disappointed, because well, I knew we just weren’t seeing that scene on screen. And that’s fine, because I have an imagination where I can take the elements that do appeal to me and delight in them. Especially with a movie that is trying to have as much fun with APES-lovers as this one is.

This is a matinee film. Personally, if I were you, I’d go see MADE or SEXY BEAST or HEDWIG AND THE ANGRY INCH first.. but you should see this film on the big screen if nothing more than to appreciate the genius of Rick Baker and the Burton moments that shine through an underdeveloped picture. I blame 20th Century Fox for wanting to make this film be their tent pole film of 2001, when it should have been set for 2002.

Readers Talkback

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  • July 27, 2001, 4:11 a.m. CST

    i'll read this when i watch the movie tomorrow.

    by billybobhoyle

    i just wanted to take up space. i'll post again when i watch the movie.

  • July 27, 2001, 4:16 a.m. CST

    Just one problem

    by Lemmy of the BDA

    While sort of agreed with Harry on a lot of the points, the ending wasn't one of them. While having earth being taken over by the apes is a cool idea, using General Thade as the Lincoln model makes no sense at all. Thade was an ape on a distant planet (not earth). I'm still trying to figure out how the Earth Apes found out about Thade and why they would celebrate him.... On the foreign planet, the apes and the humans show signs of harmony. Thade would have been forgotten. Certainly the Earth apes wouldn't have chosen Thade to be their hero. They would have chosen their own ape, who started their own revolution. Any Earth ape would have done. Give us a new character. The etching above the statues head could describe the new hero ape. Here's what the etching says: "In this temple, as in the hearts of the apes. For whom he saved the planet. In memory of General Thade, Is enshrined Forever." This assumes that Thade was on Earth, or that perhaps this is a different thade (who looks just like Roth-Thade, my what a coincidence). Including a known character, thade, just makes it all seem cheap.

  • July 27, 2001, 4:17 a.m. CST

    Fourth!

    by Circus_Midget

    getting there..............

  • July 27, 2001, 4:19 a.m. CST

    Hey Harry!

    by Circus_Midget

    Werent u that guy who was on the tv show in the uk "How do they do that?" a few years back?

  • July 27, 2001, 4:22 a.m. CST

    One more thing.

    by Lemmy of the BDA

    I'm going to have to disagree with Robogeek on the Heston cameo. Heston's character bitching about guns and saying that people with guns are evil has made my day. Heston (Mr NRA) had to have appreciated the irony of his character. That was really my favorite little moment in the movie. That and the "Damn them all to hell" line. Ahh, self-mocking humor.

  • July 27, 2001, 4:26 a.m. CST

    Tim Burton

    by CrapHole

    Hmmm Tim Burton=T.B. T.B.=Talk Back...this could mean something!

  • July 27, 2001, 5:03 a.m. CST

    The ending....

    by PoxyVonSinister

    ... makes perfect sense. Where did we leave Thade at the end of the film? Stuck inside the command center of the Oberon. Not dead, just supremely frustrated and pissed-off. You can see malice in his eyes, that his fight is nowhere near done. I'll admit, when I saw his face on the statue it threw me for a loop, but then I realized: he got out of the ship, found a way to use the technology and the time storms, and got back to Earth to screw with them the way Wahlberg screwed with his planet. Remember Heston's speech about the humans' inventiveness? Thade copies it to gain revenge on the human who destroyed his world. All this is merely implied, but I can't believe we were shown that shot of Thade brooding under the console for nothing, and if there's a sequel, I'll bet good money this is where that story takes us.

  • July 27, 2001, 5:26 a.m. CST

    POTA

    by rabid_republican

    Harry gives a fairly even-handed review and doesn't shy away from saying it's a "matinee" film, with plenty other worthy alternatives now playing. That alone makes me trust his assessment of this film. Come to think of it, since "MADE" isn't playing near me, I just might take up that matinee idea this weekend.

  • July 27, 2001, 6:14 a.m. CST

    Sorry, Ending Makes ZIPPY Sense

    by Mr. Smegma

    Beyond the point that Lemmy makes, it is absurd to simply assume that ape society would produce a leader that so conviniently paralleled a human one, so much so that he gets honored in precisely the manner that humans honored their leader. Or are we to believe the apes are simply "aping" humans? That little joke inside a joke isn't funny either. It destroys what Burton spent time developing, that ape society has it own interal rules and logic. Face it Harry, this thing isn't "underdeveloped" it is crap. "The Incredible Melting Man" also had ground-breaking make-up. Didn't stop it from being a crap film. Get up off your knees, spit, and get on with your life, Harry.

  • However I'm sure the usual bunch are out and there totally oblivious to all the usual Burton problems in his latest (i.e. Darth Taun Taun!)- sigh! Well, Harry's more qualified to deal with that entire playgroup...

  • July 27, 2001, 6:28 a.m. CST

    Hey KevinPhilipsBong..is MENSA retarded?

    by Trematode

    http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=orientated Check it Out! In the dictionary and everything. Quit raggin' on Harry.

  • July 27, 2001, 6:29 a.m. CST

    ATTENTION TIM BURTON LOVERS!!!

    by Ebon Far

    I'm sorry folks. I'm sorry Salamar. Tim Burton is a mediocre director at best. I am capable of watching most of his films from start to finish with the exception of the BATMAN FILMS. Did he do a good job with Batman? NO!!! Has hollywood and most of the planet been sucking his dick since the success of Batman with Jack Nicholson starring in it? YES!!! There was even oscar buzz about Nicholson's performance. GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK. No one went to see Batman because of Tim Burton. People went to see it because it's BATMAN. PERIOD. Burton needs to stick to the cooky, creepy shit he's known for and stay the fuck away from material that has a cult following and strong fan base like Batman and Planet of the Apes. Warner Bros. is so fucked up they were considering letting Burton fuck up Superman. And 20th Century Fox? PUH-LEEEEEZ. First X-men with Bryan Singer, now Planet of the Apes with Timmy. Sorry folks. If you want to help Timmy, tell him to do THE RETURN OF PEE WEE with Paul Reuben and a good ensemble cast. Oh yeah, he may want to include a little tidbit known as A GOOD FUCKING SCRIPT. That is all.

  • July 27, 2001, 7:05 a.m. CST

    Danny Elfman's score

    by straxboy

    Which would be "PERcussive" rather than CONcussive' surely. Otherwise it would be a real headache! (Ta Daaa - thankyouverymuch Im here all week)

  • July 27, 2001, 7:07 a.m. CST

    Why I hated the ending

    by Russman

    I hated the ending because they never gave us or made us feel we were in a particular place in time. We knew it was the future, but I can't remember if they showed us what year it was. And then to make things more confusing they show only a quick glimpse of the time clock advancing. So when he left the planet - I thought he was going backwards in time and not forward. And when did they say they were genetically changing the primates? I don't remember that line. Maybe I didn't hear it, but if that was the case, it was to subtle to pick up and the audience I was with on Tuesday didn't get it either. Oh well. I'm just going to see MADE this weekend.

  • July 27, 2001, 7:22 a.m. CST

    Tim Burton can't tell a story to save his life

    by gernblanston67

    He can't tell a story, build suspense, or develop characters. ( and I liked Pee Wee, Sleepy Hollow and Ed Wood). He's got a great eye, but that's about it. James Cameron should have done this one.

  • July 27, 2001, 7:22 a.m. CST

    "Killer Klowns" is perfect as it is! So, "POTA" is a "PUTA."

    by Uncapie

    Plus, it has my hero, John Vernon as "Officer Mooney!" I have no interest in "POTA."

  • July 27, 2001, 7:25 a.m. CST

    att KevinPhilipsBong

    by Buddy_X

    stop bitchin...don't you have better things to do? pointing out "grammar errors"?? get a f*cking life.

  • July 27, 2001, 7:37 a.m. CST

    Wow, *SUPRISE*, another flawed Tim Burton film...

    by wash

    I find it funny that some people always get their expectations for a Tim Burton film up so high...the man is incapable of making a perfectley watchable film (with the possible exception of Ed Wood). Yep, matinee for sure.

  • July 27, 2001, 7:38 a.m. CST

    "Orientated"

    by A Yank in London

    It certainly IS a word (atleast according to common usage in England - and the Oxford Concise Thesaurus). Harry's review unfortunately confirmed my fears about POTA. Too bad. If LOTR I doesn't hit the mark, I think 2001 will become known as the Year without a Blockbuster. (I don't count children's films like Harry Potter, of course) - Ex-Mensa-ite

  • July 27, 2001, 7:47 a.m. CST

    Damn you, you blew it up.

    by bswise

    Good review, Harry, kind of sums up almost all of Burton's flicks: a few amazing moments of bizarro technical bravado but also many misguided ones, a mix of goofy camp with ham-fisted melodrama that piles up to a steaming lack of coherence in the end. It's sad only because ED WOOD was such a gem, showing a failed promise that Burton was somehow maturing beyond his fetishistic schtick. Even when he turned around and made MARS ATTACKS!, I wasn't too worried

  • July 27, 2001, 7:52 a.m. CST

    Good Call, poxy

    by Lemmy of the BDA

    About an hour after i watched the movie and posted my thoughts about the ending, i read Poxy V. Sinister's view, and i have to say that i like it. It really gave me something to think about. I rewatched the ending (don't ask me how) and he was right. I dig the idea of payback. But his idea doesn't solve all of our problems. Even if we assume that Thade used the ship to fuck with Earth, starting an Ape revolution, the way the earth is presented doesn't quite work. First, we have to decide if this is a parallel earth or simply an advanced earth. If it is a parallel earth set in the same time frame as the beginning of the movie, then Thade must have traveled back in earth's history with a group of apes to conquer human society/start ape society. It's then a big strench of the imagination that the apes would have the same technology as real humans, even the style (the helicopters and police cars). The other possibility that Poxy mentioned could have Thade starting a revolt with the apes that were already created on Earth, similar to the ones on the spaceship. This would have the same feel as "Conquest for the Planet of the Apes" film, with Thade taking over for Caesar. By this method, then with Leo crashed on earth, then it was his same earth, but far into the future. Which once again presents the technology problem. This is far into the future,and they are still using 20th century police cars and helicopters. Those machines wouldn't even feel right in leo's real time. They had colonized the solar system, genetically engineered smarter chimps and the cops are still using traditional handguns? Leo had this advanced technology, higly lethal weaponry, and he wasn't bothered by the arcane technology when when the cops rolled up to the memorial? The whole sequence still doesn't feel right. It feels tacked on. The end of the original movie made sense. It made perfect sense and was supported throughout the whole movie. In this new movie, the ending is just added for some shock value. I really like Poxy's idea, but if the film makers were thinking the same thing, then they didn't do a very good job realizing it on the screen.

  • July 27, 2001, 8:17 a.m. CST

    WOW SOME SURPRISE ENDING I GUESSED THIS FROM WATCHING THE MAKIN

    by jon-e-blaze

  • July 27, 2001, 9:22 a.m. CST

    Ending did not take place "far in the future"

    by ALF

    The design of the fire engines and camera used by the "tourist" seemed to indicate that the scene was in the 1960s. Maybe it was supposed to be the date of the original POTA? Or maybe the date that the book was written (where the astronaut returns to his earth to find a gorilla driving a truck?). I'm guessing that's where Tim was trying to go. But it really didn't work for me - because why is Thade's name there? Nice try, but no sale for me. One last thought: Helena Bonham Carter - wow, what an actress!

  • July 27, 2001, 9:59 a.m. CST

    Marky Mark and the Monkey Bunch

    by Mil Mascaras

    Wow! Cool ending. I have not seen the movie yet but from the review and some of the talkbackers' theories, it seems to be kind of thought provoking. I think you are right about the ending Harry. It is Rod Serling Bleak! In the novel, Ullyse Merou ( the astronaut ) returns to Earth and is met by a military detatchment, of Gorillas! He then takes off again into space with his family ( Nova and son ) and presumably, at the time the manuscript was found, was still floating out there, searching for a home. The original movie had that great twist, and took Taylor on one hell of an emotional ride. Hating humanity, arguing FOR humanity at the trial, and finally, cursing them again at the end. Leo, however is only on a straightforward ride. He is on an alien planet, and somewhere out there, is home. It is a minor shock to see a topsy-turvey world, but hey...it's an alien planet! So, he accepts this. And then BOOM. He gets back and sees his world gone. Beaten back to Earth by Thade. Great stuff! As for the cop cars not looking like they are of Leo's time, I have a theory: Time travel with a time machine is precise. Set the controls and there you are. Time travel via a natural anomaly is not exact, kind of like skydiving. You may or may not hit the "X" depending on the wind. Eh? Eh?? :) Well, no matter. I'm seeing ( and enjoying it ) tonight! Peace.

  • July 27, 2001, 10:01 a.m. CST

    various musings

    by spenworks

    This project was doomed. How can you have a Planet of the Apes movie without Roddy McDowell, or at the very least a Cornelius-like character. He MADE the franchise! I just read a pretty devastating review of the original PotA at salon.com. The reviewer said the PotA was essentially a bad movie with an interesting parable. I disagree. When I was a kid, I liked, not loved, PotA. It wasn't like Star Wars or The 7th Voyage of Sinbad, which I saw about a million times. However, as an adult, I have come to love PotA. It's solid science fiction, well told. The first hour of the movie is told with little or no dialog, and it is never less than completely engrossing. And when the apes are finally introduced, it is in a clever and frightening fashion. Howard Hawks defined a "great movie" as 3 great scenes, no bad scenes. Planet of the Apes qualifies. Every scene for the first hour is a great scene (to the point where Heston utters his classic line, "get your hands off me, you damn, dirty ape!"), and the payoff is cinematic history. And the ape make-up is surprisingly good, considering the age. You would expect it to look cheesy, but it's actually quite charming (probably due in a large part to the performances of Zira, Cornelius, and Dr. Zaeus). The production design is still awesome. And the sight of a dozen gorillas on horseback, hunting down humans in the fields still holds considerable power. The desert cinematography at the beginning is to me reminiscent of "Walkabout", by Nicholas Roeg. Haven't seen the remake yet, but it sounds like in every area except special effects and make-up, it fell flat. It's no surprise. Tim Burton makes static films. He does not do dynamic action well. Batman is one of the stiffest action films I've ever been disappointed by, Sleepy Hollow was better, so I guess he's learning. Tim Burton does not "raise the stakes" well. Hes best when doing small films about odd characters with outlandish special effects. I don't know. I always feel like my money is well spent, but with the exception of Ed Wood, and Edward Scissorhand, he doesnt seem to take his charactgers seriously. He's sort of somewhere in between Terry Gilliam and the Coen Bros, but not quite measuring up to either of them. That being said, I've never not enjoyed a Burton film, but they all seem to have a watchability factor of 1. Except Ed Wood, which so far has a watchability factor of 3. Oh yaeh, early in his career, Tim Burton made 2 little fils called pee wees Big Adventure, and Beetlejuice. Both of which were really fucking funny. Maybe that's it. Somewhere along the line Tim Burton seems to have stopped being funny. I don't know. I'm just not as amused by Tim Burton as I used to be. Maybe it's me.

  • July 27, 2001, 10:08 a.m. CST

    Good one, Harry...Ebon Far and all you other Burton haters...

    by Halloween68

    I think Harry hit it on the mark this time. Burton has never and will never make a bad film as a "Director." Now, he might make a bad one as a writer, although I doubt he would as a producer, but he'll never make a bad one as a director. Di-rec-tor. He's just too good. The visions in his creative mind are just too sound. And I've said once, and I'll say it again, Burton does fairy tales. No, he doesn't do action movies, no, he doesn't do dramas, and no, he doesn't do serious science fiction films. Burton does quirky little, dark and twisted fairy tales. All of his films thus far in his career, in way or another, fall into this category. I always thought that this was a strange choice in films for Burton to undertake. Planet of the Apes is too serious. There's no sense of humor in it, other than Heston's hamm-ee acting. It's post appocalyptic and it works on shock value. And it's a social commentary for cripes sake. This is no where near Burton's usual line of work. Not that that's is bad. Let's not shoot the man for trying something different. I'll still go see it. And I always go see movies in matinee these days. I'll go see it, knowing that if this remake, sequel, or redirection of someone elses story isn't all that good, Burton will do better next time when he's back inside his own element. Whatever the case, it's just one little minascule step in Burton's remarkable career. And Ebon Far go see my other comment in the other POTA talkback. I didn't copy/paste like you.

  • July 27, 2001, 10:25 a.m. CST

    Heston/Wahlberg brawl?

    by buckna

    What I want to know is if Heston told Wahlberg to kiss his monkey ass for when Marky bashed him on the MTV movie awards last year? The funky bunch man himself had the gall to say Heston should win the best villian catagory for heading up the NRA. Politics aside, I can totally see Heston telling him to piss-off and that he's a one-trick pony who'll never be able to touch Heston's greatness. At least, that's what I would do...

  • July 27, 2001, 10:27 a.m. CST

    GOOF?

    by Ape_X

    First, let me say I enjoyed the movie very much although flawed at times what film nowadays isn't. I can complain about the same stuff others have complained about and praise that which others have praised. But I was wondering if anyone noticed the goof (and whether it be a goof) when Limbo was rumaging through Pod Alpha (Pericles pod) that when he was pushing buttons on the monitor it said "Delta" which was clearly Leo's pod. Anyone else? Or was I just in a primate inspired awe.

  • July 27, 2001, 10:29 a.m. CST

    "What is this ?" learns how to use the space bar, villagers rejo

    by Darth Taun Taun

    I'm glad you stopped masturbating to your advance copy of "Tomcats" on DVD long enough to learn how to use the keyboard. Truly, we all give a rat's ass about your opinion. Truly.

  • July 27, 2001, 10:34 a.m. CST

    My GOD this Film SUCKS!@!1

    by Hate_Speech

    I've seen better afternoon specials!

  • July 27, 2001, 11:04 a.m. CST

    The Ending

    by CrazyCracker

    I saw POTA last night. And while it was a little confusing and vague, I still enjoyed it. The year clock on Marky Mark's pod definitely showed him going back in time, to what looked like 2100. Since he started off originally in 2029, went 1000 years to the planet of the apes, and then came back to Earth 2100. It was Thade's head on Abe (the inscription even reads Thade), so I guess we are to assume that Thade somehow masters the Oberon technology and comes back to Earth and takes over.

  • July 27, 2001, 11:15 a.m. CST

    Just read Ebert's review.....it's pretty good and I think hits t

    by Smugbug

    he ended his review by saying how in ten years teh 1968 version of Planet of the Apes will still be revered. I believe him. He also mentioned that it looked like Tim Burton was trying to make sure that this movie fit the PG-13 rating in every crook and cranny. This movie should have been going for a R rating, in my humble opinion. Timmy-boy took it easy here folks and decided not to take any chances. And we don't receive any benefits from that.

  • July 27, 2001, 11:27 a.m. CST

    FAO KevinPhilipsBong

    by Roosterbooster

    You're not a Mackem are you? Anyway, "orientated" is a proper word and I should know because I used to be in MENSA. So I'm dead good, me. I will not be seeing this film because Harry liked Jurassic Park III. I saw it on his recommendation and it was very mediocre and predictable. CGI dinosaurs are now officially boooooooring.

  • He did NOT go into a thousand years into the future, and if he had, the film was simply cheating us. It clearly showed a shot of the "time dial" rifling back all the way to his own, modern day time when he went through the portal again. The film showed us that, telling us he was back in his own time. If it had showed us that and then tried to say, "Oh, well after we cut away from that time readout it started going the other way and now he's in the future", that's just a total cheat and bad filmmaking. Not to mention the fact that everything on the new ape earth looked(and was obviously supposed to look), exactly like contemporary human society. Now this isn't as strong evidence as the shot of the time readout, because you could say that after a thousand years the Apes haven't changed much, but that is highly, highly unlikely. SOMETHING would've changed after a long time, either direction, but it wouldn't look like it did - exactly modern day in every detail. The film is clearly saying that Whalberg went into another dimension of some sort - a parallel universe, and that SOMEHOW Apes rule this world and Thade had something to do with it. This ending is a complete and total cheat and makes absolutely no sense. For one thing, the film dealt with time, but not parallel universes at all - you can't just throw something in at the end for a twist and expect it to work. There HAS to be something in the film hinting at this beforehand to earn a twist ending like this. Otherwise it just looks like something tacked on, a cheat. And even if you allow for this monstrous cheat of filmmaking which clearly doesn't work well, it still makes no sense, because the only way it could is if Thade somehow went through the storm and changed things. But how could he? There is no way he could've used the Oberon. It was wrecked - its fuel cells were totally depleted - if it could take off, the humans who knew what they were doing when they crash landed there would've taken off or found a way. Or Whalberg would've found a way. But it was impossible. To think that Thade, who knew NOTHING about any of this stuff to the point that he couldn't open a door, could somehow find a way to get this wrecked ship off the ground is simply too much of a stretch for anybody to believe. It just DOESN'T WORK no matter how you look at it. It's simply a twist without any reason or relation to the story, or without any way to really occur - just a twist to have a twist. The worst kind of thing. Rod Serling's twists were never like that. They were clever because they were not only possible, but they meant something to the story. The ending to this new Planet of the Apes is simply bad, lazy filmmaking.

  • July 27, 2001, 11:50 a.m. CST

    Are we forgetting about...

    by Senatr Tankerbel

    ... the pod in the lake? Why couldn't Theed just have figured out how to fix that and then go back to earth... he also had that gun, so he could have kicked everyone's human ass in the 1880's and then repopulated the earth in time for the 1960's alternate era... maybe?

  • July 27, 2001, 11:56 a.m. CST

    this movie should never have been made...

    by old_toby

    What was I thinking? I had convinced myself that remaking POTA with CGI and modern techniques would be cool. Instead, during the entire show, I kept thinking to myself "the original was better...was better...was better...". The whole movie was rushed; never building up any suspense or drama. Leo sees apes about 60 seconds after crashing. In the original, the introduction of the apes was way more dramatic. And I'm sorry, Harry, but I think Leo's reaction to being on a backwards ape planet was totally UNBELIEVABLE. Except for the two times he asked "where are me?" while on the wagon, he never seemed suprised, curious, disgusted. Remember how Heston's character in the original was trying for so long to convince the apes that humans were superior? The paper airplane, his ability to write, the doll, etc. Here, Leo had no depth or passion about his situation at all. And another thing. When trying to escape through an ape city, why would you run through the INSIDE of all the apartments? That whole scene was reminding me of an old Three Stooges episode. Pretty lame all around. They never shold have remade this movie. When the original was good, don't f*ck with it. Maybe remake a movie that was crappy. But this was a loosing proposition from the start. Can you imagine if someone wanted to remake Star Wars in about 20 years? Assuming they could acquire the rights (which would never happen), they'll probably think they can improve it with 3d holograms or whatever. But you know, the movie would fail because we all know it could never replace the original.

  • Relax. It is just a movie. Enjoy it for what it is. If you are overly critical or obsessive, walk your dog and skip any kind of remake or adaptation. The glass is half full.

  • July 27, 2001, 12:07 p.m. CST

    The REAL ending

    by rcfuzz

    SPOILERS AHEAD: At first the ending didn't make sense to be because of the clocks in the pod (more about that later). Here's the way I see it and it all makes perfect sense now. The space station (Oberon) followed Leo into the time storm. It went back thousands of years further in time to what they thought was an uninhabited planet in another solar system. Well, this planet was actually Earth somewhere in the distant past when there was no intelligent life. The the apes and humans of the Oberon are the decendants of the apes and humans Leo meets in his time. After the battle, the apes and humans are reunited in harmony (at least for the time being), and Leo leaves and goes back to Earth in his time. There he finds that although Earth looks like normal, apes now rule the planet. Thade is honored as someone in the past who restored the apes to dominance, perhaps wiped out all of humanity in the process. So the peaceful new beginning that Leo left on the POTA went sour and changed the future that Leo went back to at the end. POTA was simply Earth all the time - there was no parallel Earth - Thade did not figure out how to fly to Earth to get revenge. He simply managed to regain control and Earth progressed with the apes in control. As for the clocks in the pod, I can't say for sure if they moved backwards or forward in the beginning when Leo first entered the storm. What do you think of my explaination?

  • July 27, 2001, 12:08 p.m. CST

    My Theory on the ending

    by Morbid Spice

    My theory on the ending was that the planet was earth the whole time. I thought Marky Mark, the Ape, and his ship all traveled back in time to Earth's ancient history. Then, while he thought he was going back to his own time, he was going forward in time. After he leaves, Thade escapes and defeats the humans, and instead of human society, Apes are the dominant species on Earth. Then they grow to create Washington and such, just as people would have.

  • July 27, 2001, 12:10 p.m. CST

    Heh

    by Morbid Spice

    Yeah, what rcfuzz said.

  • July 27, 2001, 12:19 p.m. CST

    The Ending...again

    by Grakthis

    Heres my question. I can buy that Thade used the pod in the lake (Tim made a point of showing us that Thade knew where it was) and went back in time (wey back apparently....since there were lots of apes already there) and took over the planet. How he did this by himself, i dont know. And I'll buy that the apes hadn't advanced the technology anywhere since his take over. Look at the planet they came from.... no technology. I think Tim is telling us that the Apes just CAN'T invent things. its beyond them. But what I can't explain is HOW DID THADE GET OUT OF THE ROOM. Even if someone WANTED to let him out, they couldn't! Only Marky Mark could open it! Remember the hand print reader? ---Grakthis

  • July 27, 2001, 12:23 p.m. CST

    The Ending

    by rcfuzz

    If you want to go along with Harry's explaination perhaps Thade escaped from the Oberon, salvaged Leo's pod from the Lake, and got Leo's chimp (which he left behind) to fly him in the pod to seek revenge on Leo on Earth. But I like my theory better - it was Earth all along.

  • July 27, 2001, 12:31 p.m. CST

    POTA=Earth???

    by trojanhorse2001

    If POTA was Earth the whole damn time...than why do two suns appear on the horizon throughout the movie...unless some astronomer out than can explain how that is even "theoretically" possible after only a couple thousand years the whole POTA=Earth theory is BS....

  • July 27, 2001, 12:35 p.m. CST

    Drudge is an asshole

    by rcfuzz

    First let me say that I have always been a big fan of Drudge (and still am) but sometimes he can be an asshole. Spoiling the ending of POTA for millions of people accomplishes nothing - except to get Drudge's name in the news. He should stick to politics and stay out of the movies. I still can't believe how Drudge spent an hour on his radio show gushing all over A.I. as one of the greatest films ever. A.I. was a total piece of shit, especially the ending.

  • July 27, 2001, 12:36 p.m. CST

    "Damn them...damn them to HELL!!!"

    by XTheCrovvX

    Aw, man...how to put this...hmm...::short pause:: OK, got it....this is how i compare watching this movie....imagine watching a Roadrunner/Coyote cartoon, and you see the Coyote get into his rocket skates, and just waiting for the Roadrunner to come zooming by. So, you see Mr Arrogant Skinny Bird zoom by, beep-beep and all that, and Wile E. hits the switch, and it's on. They're burnin' up roads, roadrunner's stickin' his tongue out at Coyote, Coyote's got his fork and knife ready to cut that little sumbitch into shishkebob second he gets close enough, its normal fare, everythings cool. Then you see the cliff ahead, and you know what that means in a Roadrunner cartoon. Roadrunner sees the cliff, and in his mind, gets himself ready to stop on a dime so Wile E. can keep gong and fall to his grisly unfortunate death. So the cliffs coming, it's coming, it's coming, and all of a sudden....a turtle makes its way out in the middle of the road. The roadrunner doesnt see it, trips, and falls flat on his ass, leaving him vulnerable, and as dinner that very night. The cartoon ends, the Roadrunner is now officially Wile E. Coyote's bitch. This movie moves just like that...now, i contemplated doing one of my Diaster Aftermath Reports for this, but i couldnt...see, despite the HORROR THAT SHALL BE NAMED LATER CALLED THE ENDING, theres too much stuff in here i liked...After the boring as fuck intro, we get thrust right into the world. Wahlberg's stranded, the apes are running around, whipping mad human ass, and Michael Clarke Duncan gets his 1968 homage perfectly. Then it gets into high gear. The world is wonderfully lush, indicative of the kind of environs monkeys would love, and remains rather human intolerant....and nobody can tell me otherwise on this fact: ALL THE APE ACTORS ROCKED....and right at the top of the list is Tim Roth's General Thade, who's a simian psychopath through and through. This ape is pure fuckin' evil, and worst of all, he's evil with a purpose. Humans, in his eyes, are shit, humans must die, only then will everything be perfect. Plus, god, just look at him...he's hyper, one-track minded, biased, and he just does not give a flying fuck, very much like a true chimpanzee, really. I loved his character through and through....Michael Clarke Duncan makes for a good powerful military ape leader...i wish that "BOW YOUR HEAD" line was said somewhere else, though, not at a dinner table...that was just too damn cool for that scene....Helena Bonham Carter, finally breaking my "Eternally Marla Singer" image of her, is great in her role, and now, after seeing the film, i can start honestly wishing for the "ape love" sequence to happen....i mean, in the aspect of this planet, Ari is pure benevolence, generousity, and heart, and best of all, on an intellectual par with Mark Wahlberg's character. I would not have balked whatsoever at these two getting together...but, oh, instead, he goes and tries to shove his tongue down Estella Warren's throat...i mean, granted, in real life, minus the makeup, hell yeah i'd make out with Estella Warren first...but think about this...Ari lives in civilization, is intelligent, and has a heart, a personality, and is strong enough to stand up for what she believes in...Estella Warren's character is essentially a barely-literate swamp-whore who hasn't brushed her teeth in 6 months. Which one would i kiss first...a clean monkey, or a filth-ridden human...hmm....anyways....onto other people....Cary Hiroyuki-Tagawa....in a more diverse Hollywood, this guy would be getting job offers out the ass....instead he pops up ever so often and breathes life into whatever role he gets, this one included.....Paul Giammatti was comic relief, and wasnt annoying...thats all i could ask for...Charleton Heston's cameo was the source of the best lines, best acting, and best scene in the whole film...his description of the humans, what they were like, where the apes came from...and his final words...that was just freakin' cool....the humans, on the other hand, were mostly dead space, same with Mark Wahlberg, but Harry was right on this count...he had his purpose, he was stickin' to it. To the bitter end. Fuckin' A, man. And then...and then ladies and gentlemen....tragedy struck...ok, first off, right in the middle of a kick ass ape/human war, the fucking space monkey(and not the type who wears black pants, black shirts, shaves his head, and does not ask questions) comes down, and interrupts rather abruptly, grinding the climax down to a halt...then, after all is said and done comes....THE HORROR....*****ENDING!!!! I'M TALKING ABOUT THE ENDING HERE!!!! IF YOU AIN'T SEEN IT YET, GO AWAY!!!!!***** OK, so, he kisses his ladies, takes off into the storm, and lands on Earth...ok, so most of us knew SOMETHING was gonna go down....we just didnt know what or how....so, we watch Mark Wahlberg make his way out of his ship, to the monument, and OH SHIT!!! Thade saved Simian-kind from the humans!!! And how do we find this out? THADE'S FACE IS CARVED ON THE FUCKING LINCOLN MONUMENT!!!! THE COPS ARE APES!!! THE TOURISTS ARE APES!! I dunno about anyone else's theater, but in the one i was in, mine included, hell, MYSELF included, everyone laughed their asses off for a good 5 minutes. You see, people, it wasnt the ending itself that was stupid, pointless, and tacked on to copy the original's shock...its all in the execution....with Tim Burton's imagination, you dont think he could've conjured up a better style for the ending there??Hell, even i can do that! How about him being knocked unconscious on tht crash-land, being surrounded by people, as he weaves in and out of consciousness, only to be taken to a hospital, babbling to someone in the shadows about some weird ape planet dream, only to mention Thade in passing fancy, aand not in a positive manner...only to have the light turned on, and he's surrounded by apes, yelling blasphemy, and beating the screaming shit out of him.....hell, i just came up with that shit in 3 minutes, and it's better than the crap i had to watch!! Instead, it was done just so stupidly, and campy...nobody could help but laugh all the way out...and unfortunately, it was done in so grandiose and pseudo-dramatic a manner, that it nearly overshadows the rest of the goodness in the movie...this, my friends, is a lesson to all aspiring filmmakers: One bad ending spoils the film. FUCK THIS ENDING. AND, UNTIL HE DOES SOMETHING BETTER, FUCK TIM BURTON. THAT'S TWICE HE'S FUCKED UP THIS YEAR, DAMMIT! GET YOUR ASS IN GEAR, BUB!!! GOD! ****SPOILAGE OVER**** SO there you have it...it was so cool, right up until things went south in the last 10 minutes...tragic, really......everything went smooth...till the turtle crossed the road, and the roadrunner tripped....What hurts me most, though, is that this movie will make a SHITLOAD of money, along with America's Sweethearts and Legally Blonde, and the two most intelligent movies this summer, A.I. and Final Fantasy, will fade into box office flop oblivion. Shit is what American audiences apparently want to see, shit they will recieve. If someone would like to deport me to somewhere, like, Japan, please, let me know....Revolution is my name...

  • July 27, 2001, 12:40 p.m. CST

    the ending explained well (I think)

    by Bad Cooper

    It seems like everyone here is stupid, or I saw a different movie. Why can't the ending be as simple as this: if the Oberon could crash land on the planet BEFORE Marky Mark does, then this time travel thing doesn't always work at a consistent "speed". They said that Thade would never stop coming after Mark, so, at some point after Mark left, he was able to somehow get either the Oberon, or another pod, to work. He went through the time portal, which, again, didn't operate at the same speed at Mark's, got to Earth first, and took over. Then, they changed Lincoln's head to Thade's head as a tribute (Lincoln freed the slaves - get the irony?). All this talk about parallel universes and Mark going FORWARD in time (clearly wrong for anyone who watched his ship's display) is giving me a headache. I do agree, though, this POTA, while uneven, has set up one HELL of a sequel.

  • July 27, 2001, 12:52 p.m. CST

    Lincoln's Head

    by Morbid Spice

    By the way, (spoiler) it was not just lincoln's head that was changed. It was all of him. I specifically remember his feet being ape feet. This makes it seem more likely (to me anyway...) that it was built to be Thade originally, not Lincoln.

  • July 27, 2001, 1:39 p.m. CST

    Geeks Geeks and even more GEEKS

    by DeathToGeeks

    Planet of the Apes was good fun. You people need to get a damn life! Its a MOVIE. A summer Hollywood movie at that, don't you think you're taking this a little too serious? All this ranting and arguing about the ending and whether or not it makes sense...How about hitting the bar before hand, slam down severl drinks, relax, and enjoying yourself for a change. How do you get through life being such pathetic anal losers? Face it, you will NEVER be happy. NEVER. You will go through life bitching and moaning about everyone and everything around you, yet you don't have the talent to fix the shit you are bitching about. One day you'll move out of your mother's house and find a blind, deaf and dumb chick that will love you for what you are, whatever that really is... Until then you'll hide behind your computer and BITCH about nothing.

  • July 27, 2001, 1:48 p.m. CST

    I'd like to "re-imagine" Hollywood

    by Cheez_Ums

    ...as place where original, interesting scripts of all genres are fostered by front office execs nearly as intelligent as the craftsmen who make their movies; where franchises don't nosedive after the first sequel and the movie going experience isn't such a cannabilistic, hyped-up land of mediocre experiences. Ah me! Sounds like tremendous fantasy doesn't it? Makes PLANET OF THE APES look like an episode of A&E's Biography.

  • July 27, 2001, 2:10 p.m. CST

    The Ending wasn't Burton; it was Boulle

    by quim

    Harry, the ending [spoilers] with the hero coming all the way back to earth to find it too run by apes is straight out of the original novel. The novel even takes it a step further since the story is meant to be a message found in a bottle being read by a couple out for a pleasure cruise in space. We find at the end they were chimps who found it ludicrous that ahuman could write or think. Like Robogeek said in his review, the only touch of Burton I saw was scenes with the pet human girl. Also, since I have my soap box, whomever made the descision to allow the humans to speak ruined the film. Thank you.

  • July 27, 2001, 2:16 p.m. CST

    HE'S RIGHT!! GO SEE "SEXY BEAST" INSTEAD!!!

    by Johnny Ahab

    Still the summer's best film. WHERE'S YOUR REVIEW, HARRY???

  • July 27, 2001, 2:41 p.m. CST

    the ending

    by otcconan

    left me with mixed feelings. On one hand, I liked the way they pulled it off. I agree with the contingent that says it was earth all along. Since the POTA was in the future, it COULD have 2 stars (remember 2010?).lol My ending would have been to have Leo come back to earth, and have it be just like he left it, only now he's trying to explain the loss of the Oberon to the authorities and going on and on about this ape planet, then the put him in an asylum. You could have the final shot of him be in the asylum, only to find that his roomie is none other than Thade, who has also come back to earth.

  • July 27, 2001, 2:43 p.m. CST

    the ending

    by otcconan

    left me with mixed feelings. On one hand, I liked the way they pulled it off. I agree with the contingent that says it was earth all along. Since the POTA was in the future, it COULD have 2 stars (remember 2010?).lol My ending would have been to have Leo come back to earth, and have it be just like he left it, only now he's trying to explain the loss of the Oberon to the authorities and going on and on about this ape planet, then the put him in an asylum. You could have the final shot of him be in the asylum, only to find that his roomie is none other than Thade, who has also come back to earth.

  • July 27, 2001, 3:47 p.m. CST

    The ending

    by chrisd

    Anybody who has read the book or saw the original movie should suspect a trick ending. Although I don't think what Drudge did was appropriate, it's not on the scale of, say, revealing the end of The Sixth Sense. The writers (is that the appropriate term?), the same braintrust that brought you Superman IV: The Quest for Peace, at least knew enough to try not to top the original movie's ending, so they went with something stupid. Although, to be fair, the book ending wasn't that great. The original movie ending is, of course, classic.

  • July 27, 2001, 3:53 p.m. CST

    Drudge is an asshole

    by rcfuzz

    First let me say that I have always been a big fan of Drudge (and still am) but sometimes he can be an asshole. Spoiling the ending of POTA for millions of people accomplishes nothing - except to get Drudge's name in the news. He should stick to politics and stay out of the movies. I still can't believe how Drudge spent an hour on his radio show gushing all over A.I. as one of the greatest films ever. A.I. was a total piece of shit, especially the ending.

  • July 27, 2001, 4:13 p.m. CST

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>THE REAL POTA SP

    by sprocket-bot

    I knew of this ending back in March, thanks to the folks at Coming Attractions...of course, no spoiler warning was posted in the right area there...so why blast Drudge? It seems to me this was an OBVIOUS ending, and the only people who would have been spoiled would be those that keep up with these pages. I mean, it doesn't take a monkey (pun PURELY intended) to figure this out! Here's the CA report from March... March 6, 2001... Three scoops. What do they mean? Separately, perhaps nothing. Together...well, perhaps nothing again. But still, it's interesting to noodle about and it appears that something's up. Possible spoiler points are swipable as always. Now, down the line... "The morning of 2/27, I was listening to the morning show on DC101, a rock station broadcasting out of, you guessed it, Washington DC. Anyway, I tuned in just in time to hear about a casting call for men 18-35 with waist measure ments of 32-38(i think, i wasn't payin much attention except to know i'm too big) and chests of 42-44 and that extras would be wearing full body costumes. The filming is supposed to occur at night at the Lincon Memorial on 3/13. The announcer said it was for a feature starring Mark Wahlberg and Sam L. Jackson. Now Elliot (the main guy on this paticular morning show) was going into hysterics practically, saying it was POTA, but then other memebrs of the show said Jackson wasn't in POTA. So then there was debate about whether or not it was POTA or maybe Episode 2. I damn near died laughing as the resident Star Wars buff of the group tried to tell elliot that Star Wars would never come to Earth. "Anyway, this debate was put to rest when a few callers 'confirmed' it was POTA. I know from checking your site daily that the Ape Planet has two suns and therefore couldn't be Earth, so if the filming at the memorial is indeed POTA with a big cameo, what could it be? My idea would be Wahlberg's charecter has a flashback/nightmare involving the President (Jackson) and a few hundered extras dressed as apes. Who knows, this just might be a stunt from a studio to draw up alot of extras, but in any case, just thought I'd pass this along." For more, check out the link... http://corona.bc.ca/films/mainFramed.html

  • July 27, 2001, 4:22 p.m. CST

    THE ENDING - Am I nuts?

    by Saragon

    Okay, I came here *specifically* to figure out what the hell was up with that ending. And all it got me was that I am more confused than ever. Harry sez Marky went to *the future* of Earth? Makes no sense whatsoever. Coming out of the theater I knew only TWO THINGS: (1) The clock in Mark's pod went FORWARD at the beginning, when he first went to the POTA. (2) The clock in Mark's pod went BACKWARD at the end, when he went back to Earth. I KNOW THESE THINGS FOR A FACT. I was watching very very closely because I was trying to make the bizarre plot make SENSE. And I KNOW he went FORWARD in time first, then BACKWARD in time at the end. This kills about 2/3 of all the theories posted so far. (The POTA is not "Earth in the distant past". The ending is not "Earth in the distant future".) The ONLY thing that makes sense, then, is that POTA was just some random planet somewhere out there with two suns, and that Thade (somehow) went back in time to conquer Earth before Marky got back home. Of course, now I have to figure out how the heck Thade got out of that room without Marky's handprint to open the door. That's the only part I don't get. Oh yeah, also, those pods sure seem to travel fast, huh? Marky got back from Jupiter (Saturn?) to Earth in a matter of a minute or so. Amazing....

  • Where was the hot monkey sex with Lisa Marie? I can't wait until Hollywood stops monkeying around with effects laden spectacles. Ever since the mark of the CGI revolution in Terminator 2 (which was a good movie IMO) the emphasis on style over substance has been non-stop. There have been a few good ones in there to be certain, but overall the preoccupation with CGI as Hollywood's new toy is getting annoying as hell. This is like when "talkies" first appeared as a technological advancement in filmaking, and you saw whole movies that consisted of a static camera and dialogue between characters because people were so fascinated with audible speech in film. This period in film history will be characterized by the excesses in CGI use and lack of substance. An Opinion.

  • July 27, 2001, 4:48 p.m. CST

    The ONLY explanation to the ending...

    by Van Fanel

    It doesn't even have to be as complicated as Thade 'fixing' a pod or the Oberon. Maybe the Air Force sent a rescue mission to figure out where the fuck everyone disappeared to- homed in on the Oberon, found a dying talking monkey (Thade) imprisoned behind some glass- revitalized him and shared some basic piloting skills. Next thing you know, Thade has hijacked the rescue ship, picked up some of his ape homies and headed towards Earth. They would DEFINITELY have to have landed sometime AFTER 1917- and even sometime AFTER 1950, because I am not buying that the apes would arrive in the 1800

  • July 27, 2001, 4:48 p.m. CST

    Harry, you got the ending wrong...

    by Eurokrn

    I think it may have already been pointed out... BUT here it is again... I just watched the movie.. when Marky Mark goes through the portal the first time, he goes into the future to about 2400-2500AD .. the movie began in 2029AD so that's about 400 years into the future.. When Marky Mark goes BACK through the portal, the time goes backward and drops him off at 2100AD so he goes BACK to earth about 60 years after he left.. so when you say that he traveled "THOUSANDS or so years", that's incorrect. He goes ahead about 400 years and then comes back about 400 years to around the same time... And I agree with one of the other posters that Thade probably got back to Earth before Marky Mark and changed it to his liking..

  • July 27, 2001, 4:48 p.m. CST

    Grown men--hell, boys with pubic hair--do NOT talk in public ab

    by heywood jablomie

    Hey. Call me highbrow. But to me, it kinda blows your argument, because it suggests you smell like a) flatulated polyester pants, b) your mom's basement and c) dried jism. However, PLANET OF THE APES is a really good movie, a Burtonian triumph over the studio system, and everyone should see it! Also--GHOST WORLD! Rah rah! Go team!

  • July 27, 2001, 4:52 p.m. CST

    What I thought during the show...

    by MrCere

    I actually sided with Thade a little bit. This damn outsider - with a 12-inch Dirk Digler in his spacesuit even - shows up and threatens world peace. He wants to disrupt society, not because he is noble or wants to help human kind, but because he doesn't like his own situation. At least he tounged the chick he never spoke to before he left. It makes a lot of sense for Thade to kill the lone human. As for the ending, time travel cannot be controled by flying a pod through radio waves. Can you fly in such a way as to make the time warp send you to your own time? He should have stayed behind to create a hybrid race with Bonham-Carter.

  • When Charlton Heston saw the Statue of Liberty buried in the sand, we found out that he never left Earth in the first place. So what's new or special about Tim Burton's ending?

  • July 27, 2001, 4:53 p.m. CST

    By Jeeves I think I've got it

    by hmsiegel

    I know we don't need someone else to try and figure out the ending, but I just talked to a friend of mine who saw it on Monday, and his explanation was actually quite good and believable. And it fits the rules of the movie. It all starts when they first encounter the electrical storm. They were saying something about EMI's (Electro-magnetic Impulses) and how they mess with all the electronics. Especially the digital clocks. Now when Leo goes out to get his monkey we don't know how long he is out there, or what direction in time he went. We know he disappeared. And the crew of the Oberon went after him. They crash landed on an uninhibited planet. Now if you think about this like the Bible, then when they crash land is year 0. After time the apes get smarter and take over. Going back to Leo and his pod, you can't trust the clock in his pod because the EMI messed it up. So he goes into a time portal and crash lands on this same planet a couple thousand years later. Humans are still around because there were probably thousands of people on the space station, many of them going their separate ways when the station crashed, thus we have the various tribes. When Leo leaves the planet, he again enters the electrical storm, so you can't trust the clock in his pod. Instead of going back in time, he goes forward, landing on the same planet, only thousands of years later. The way that the planet can look like earth is that the scientists messed with the apes DNA, making them smarter, and possibly teaching them about our history. So for them to build a memorial to Thade that looks like the Lincoln Memorial is imprinted in them. I don't know if we are reading to much into it or not, but it makes sense. -Merlin

  • July 27, 2001, 4:54 p.m. CST

    Hairy Knuckles

    by Mullitt

    And also, this side note: We know how the humans got to the planet, and how the apes got to the planet, but how did the horses get there? This makes no sense.

  • When Charlton Heston saw the Statue of Liberty buried in the sand, we found out that he never left Earth in the first place. So what's new or special about Tim Burton's ending?

  • When Charlton Heston saw the Statue of Liberty buried in the sand, we found out that he never left Earth in the first place. So what's new or special about Tim Burton's ending?

  • July 27, 2001, 5:06 p.m. CST

    ManOwaR you said it

    by JAGUART

    Those Regal Cinema Pepsi ads suck shit. They have to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Pepsi and Wal-Mart should get together and take over the fucking world. I actually like the Roy Rogers Institute ad that Anthony Hopkins does. Goody-Goody.

  • July 27, 2001, 5:25 p.m. CST

    I'm Glad Drudge Ruined The Ending...

    by TheWalrus

    for millions of moviegoers. Maybe fewer people will see this piece of shit. In fact, I think spoiling the endings of all big budget Hollywood blockbusters should be a new trend. Then maybe, just maybe, we can put an end to all the nonsense. If they want to cheapen our experience, then we'll cheapen theirs.

  • July 27, 2001, 5:29 p.m. CST

    Best Star Trek Episode Ever!

    by Lizzybeth

    Starring Mark Walhberg as Captain Kirk, Estelle Warren as the Space-Babe-of-the-Week, Animal Rights as the Politically Correct Theme, and an assortment of great makeup, costumes, and cinematography to go with a weak story. Oh, and a mindfuck ending telegraphed twenty minutes ahead of time, just like every other element of the plot.

  • July 27, 2001, 5:35 p.m. CST

    I have to agree with Ebon Far to a point

    by KingKrypton

    While I certainly can't sit thru a Burton film without feeling ill(and feeling like Burton's trying to insult my intelligence), I have to agree with Ebon Far's assessment that Burton is ridiculously overpraised. "Burton has never made a bad film"? "Burton will never make a bad film as a director"? Sorry, but that don't wash. He messed up BATMAN royally (especially on the second film), MARS ATTACKS sucked, BEETLEJUICE was boring and unfunny...need I go on? Burton is the king of hacks, repetitive and tired to the core. But ever since JACK NICHOLSON was responsible for the success of the so-so BATMAN, Burton's been lavished with undeserved praise and he's become the Jon Peters of directors. He makes McG, Roger Christian, and Raja Gosnell look like geniuses by comparison.

  • July 27, 2001, 5:54 p.m. CST

    POTA Reviews are Everywhere!

    by dontef

    Including at the pit! www.popculturepit.com lalalala...the gnomes are in my heads...

  • July 27, 2001, 5:57 p.m. CST

    The chronology

    by scooterj

    Overall I really didn't care for this movie too much. But, all these different theories about the order of events are boggling my mind, because it seems pretty clear to me what has happened. 1) The Oberon is stationed near Saturn in 2029. 2) Chimp enters storm and disappears in space and time. 3) Mark follows chimp along almost the same trajectory and gets hurled 400 years into the future and to some point in space many light years away. 4) The Oberon gets caught in the storm while searching and is transported to the same area of space but either does not travel in time or (more likely, as this would allow more time for the apes and their society to evolve) is thrown several hundred to a few thousand years into the past. 5) Mark leaves the planet and retraces his trajectory. This returns him to his original position near Saturn at some point in the early to mid 21st century. 6) However, at some point, Thade has made use of technology in the Oberon ruins (or Ca-li-ma... how about that V-Ger ripoff) that for some reason none of the humans centuries earlier were able to make use of and returns to earth sometime in the mid-to-late 20th century, perhaps taking a band of human-hating apes with him. He wipes out the humans and to spite the humans he (or his followers) remake the human monuments in their own images.

  • July 27, 2001, 6 p.m. CST

    The Ending sucked

    by Manda

    It made no sense and contradicted the whole "humans are now our equals" thing. There's just no feasible explanation for it. First of all, the Oberon was out of fuel and broken in half. And Thade was locked in the control room. There was no way out except with one of the crew's hand prints. Even if he somehow got out, apes are afraid of water and wouldn't go salvage Leo's ship. How can Tim Burton justify this utterly stupid, nonsensical ending, which I'm glad Drudge partially gave away? Is he going to reimagine "Escape from the Planet of the Apes" as a sequel? Will the sequel be about a renegade time traveling ape played by Jean Claude Van Damme who frees Thade and takes him to 21st century Earth to lead La Resistance?

  • July 27, 2001, 6:05 p.m. CST

    I LOVED THIS MOVIE!!!

    by Psyclops

    I just returned from a screening of 'Planet of the Apes' and while I do agree that it will never achieve the level of greatness that is the 1968 classic, I must say that I had a hell of a time watching Apes kick ass on the big screen! The best damn popcorn movie of the summer if you ask me. Was it flawed? Sure. It had some weak spots and some other stuff that I didn't much care for (Tim Roth constantly snarling his dialogue through gritting teeth) but watching all of the monkey madness that went on was enough to leave me with a smile on my face. This is pure fun... FUN! FUN! FUN!... remember that word? This movie isn't trying to be as deep or as thought provoking as the original, it sets out to entertain us with some dazzling visuals and Rick Baker's excellent make-up! Tim Burton has done it again, I can't wait for the sequel!

  • July 27, 2001, 6:10 p.m. CST

    Question

    by PookiePoo

    Is there any relevance that the space distortion thingy shows Markie's crew the entire human transmissions. Does this have anything to do with the ending?

  • July 27, 2001, 6:31 p.m. CST

    thade in the future

    by automatic

    Surely Thade travelled through the time warp thingy and made it to earth. If it was just genetic engineering, why the heck would they have a leader named thade from another planet? c

  • July 27, 2001, 6:37 p.m. CST

    POTA

    by ZocaloHobo

    Just got back seeing this....The visuals were excellent, however the end really really sucked..... Also, did anyone else think that Helena Bonham-Carter looked like Michael Jackson???????

  • July 27, 2001, 6:39 p.m. CST

    This is weaker or worse than Mars Attacks?!?

    by SethShandor

    Wow, it MUST suck then. Cause that film was a mess too...

  • July 27, 2001, 6:40 p.m. CST

    An Alternative Explanation--Kinda Sixth Sense-y

    by FLMovieGuy

    Leo Davidson is a man who traversed an electrical storm, crash landed, was exposed to an alien planet, was beaten multiple times, again traveled through space and an electrical storm and crash landed. Within this series of events, he encountered a planet populated by apes and a being who was completely bent on his destruction. Now, back on Earth (sometime near our own time), after all this physical abuse and seeing his understanding of life completely sent askew--may it be that. . . (small drumroll). . .he is now insane, crazed, or simply unable to process his surroundings clearly--basically projecting his mental trauma with his addled brain on once-familiar surroundings. Though many others may not agree, it is what makes the best explanation for me, or at least it allows me to accept a fairly goofy ending that seems not to really fit any other way. Thade was after all his nemesis whether he knew it or not, Leo: did know that Thade would persue him until he as long as he was alive, was certainly knocked around a bit, must have figured was Thade was behind the monkey business (ok, I couldn't resist) by the pond and knew its contents, presumably was malnourished, and like in TESB went on a long space trip (all though here he was by himself)that was not documented in the movie. So, (also skin to Blair Witch 2, I guess) his whole reality has changed. I think this answers the questions of why these apes were living in a world fashioned by humans, Leo did hear voices that were without the ape inflections (as I remember) over his comm unit and may have finally lost touch after climbing out of his seond crashed ship. This makes the movie digestable for me at least. One question though--I can understand the evolution and emulation of the apes, but its that last thing that I don't remember--apes--I don't remember any baboons, silverbacks, oranguatans, etc being on the ship, and certainly not ones that were being trained. It would seem like it should have been Planet of the Chimps instead. Bah, lets just say it was a big ship and had its own zoo in it (with horses too)--I'd hate to answer one question and then raise another. I know I won't need to ask , but post your thoughts on that explanation as none of my friends will see it until the weekend is over.

  • July 27, 2001, 7:04 p.m. CST

    How Thade might have returned

    by BocaGrande

    At the beginning of the movie, I think that I noticed a very small detail that might explain how Thade might have escaped and returned to earth prior to Marky Mark. The chimp is send out in Pod A. I would swear that I remember that Wahlberg launching in Pod D. I could be wrong, but if I am right, logic would suggest that there might have been at least two additional pods left on the space station. If the human survivors of the crash, patiently waiting for rescue, were suddenly beset by their angry semian friends, they may not have tried to use them in time. Since everything else seemed to work on the ship thousands of years later, why not pods b & c. Given that everyone who entered the nebula arrived at different times (coming and going), Harry's theory of an ape revolt on earth becomes very interesting. Thade could have appeared just in time to become the Ape Hitler and wipe out humanity. One writer suggested that if this had happened that the apes would have torn down everything human and remade it in their own image. I believe that Hitler would have never destroyed the Arc d' Triumph in Paris. In addition to adorning it with Nazi flags, he eventually would have gone on to make it a memorial to himself. Given the warior class of the apes, I do not doubt they would be above taking spoils of war. On another note, I liked the fact that the symbol for branding humans and other artwork throughout the ape world happened to be the image of the Oberon. By the way, this is my first post of any sort. Please be gentle.

  • July 27, 2001, 7:09 p.m. CST

    Horses?

    by stinkpalm

    I just want to know how they got horses on that crazy ole PLanet of the Apes.

  • July 27, 2001, 7:13 p.m. CST

    As far as that ending goes...

    by Vladmir Buggerof

    I sort of thought the same thing that Harry was, that Thade got to Earth somehow and what we saw was the new ape-Earth. Why are these apes acting like earth humans? Because, being as they were born and raised on earth, they could only "ape" what they had always seen. The reason the apes on the POTA had their own, unique culture was because they had nothing to base a culture on except for the musings of an insane, murderous monkey(Simose). Burton even gives us an inscription above the "Thade Memorial" telling us that the statue is in honor of General Thade. (although, to be honest, the inscription wasn't up on-screen long enough for me to read the whole thing. and if anyone actually did read the whole thing, I'd be interested to know exactly what it said) As far as "humans being equal" goes, for all we know they are equal on the Planet of the Apes. We saw earth at the end. There is no way to know what happened here... not until the sequel, that is. Oh, by the way, I liked the movie. (in case anyone is interested... probably not... um... never mind...)

  • July 27, 2001, 7:24 p.m. CST

    Saw it earlier this afternoon and...

    by MattHat121

    Ugh. Terrible. Just terrible. The opening credits and Rick Baker's make-up aside, there is nothing to like about this hokey, boring, and just-plain-dumb piece of trash. The story was stupid, the two plot twists lame (the last one makes no sense), and the acting sub-par. It constantly draws attention to itself, too. Ooh, lookee, that ape just said "bad hair day," and that other one is writing with his feet. And, ho ho, that one has a toupee. I literally cringed at the two self-referential lines in the flick. Believe me, you'll spot them. No actor walks away from this one unscathed. Wahlberg is dull, although I did empathize with his desire to get back home. His character crash lands on a place ruled by *apes*. APES. Where's the shock, Marky Mark? Aren't you a little, I dunno, surprised when an ape opens his mouth and talks perfectly fine English? Isn't that a little odd? The other actors: Tim Roth hits the exact same note in every scene; Michael Clarke Duncan was ok, I guess, but his dialect was distracting; Helena Bonham Carter is the requisite "we shouldn't treat them this way" heroine; Paul Giammati is the comic relief, cookie cutter jokes and one-liners intact; and Estella Warren is another freaky looking model with too much calogen in her lips (and if its not calogen, then she's just freaky). Last and perhaps least: Chuck Heston himself gives a cameo, playing an older ape who fears the power of guns. Yeah, seriously. Also, explain to me why apes on a distant planet would have English accents. Roth, Carter and some other dude talk like they're performing Shakespeare. Throughout the film, all these goddamn apes are shown to have great strength. They toss humans around like rag dolls. In fact, when punched, they go flying through the air as if propelled by motorized spring boards (which they probably were). Yet in the final battle Wahlberg and his other underdeveloped human allies are shown pummeling apes like no other. Huh? And during the same scene the apes running on foot are advancing faster than the apes on horses. How the hell can a monkey outrun a horse? My main problem: Where is Tim Burton during all this? His wild and thoughtful imagination was on display in everything from "Beetlejuice" to "Sleepy Hollow." Where'd it go? You'd think that a guy who is known for his awesome fairy tale and fantasy sensibilities would find a way to make this story fascinating, or at least interesting. Instead, it's droning and arid. It is, by far, the worst film he has made.

  • July 27, 2001, 7:25 p.m. CST

    you people are very lame.

    by yeah i'm a jerk!

    this movie was great. i think it was better than any of the original film's sequels. sure the original was a classic, but heston was right to not want to do the sequels. i never bought into the theory that apes would evolve simply because cats and dogs were wiped out. plus that shitty tv series had cats and dogs in it. this film had a reason for the apes to evolve. i found myself totally enjoying the movie and i think tim burton is an absolute genius. the action sequences were well done and kept me on the edge of my seat. i disagree with you on this part harry. mark my words if this film had been as lame as waterworld or battlefield earth i would be pissed. this film was great, i give it 4 out of 5 stars.

  • July 27, 2001, 7:42 p.m. CST

    Heston Cameo?

    by hidden_sniper

    Was it me or was Thade's father played by Charlton Heston in a rare cameo appearance? Sounded alot like him and looked somewhat like him too (under all that awesome makeup. Also could find no credit for Thade's father in the credits ...thus giving more credit to the potential cameo theory I had. Either that or the narcotics finally kicked in. Please put my mind at ease if anyone knows the truth.

  • July 27, 2001, 7:42 p.m. CST

    Decent flick.....weak ending...Shallow Hal looks hilarious thoug

    by David Lo Pan

    The highlight for me was the Shallow Hal trailer...I had no interest in Me, Myself, and Irene, and I don't have that much in Osmosis Jones, but Hal looks hilarious.

  • July 27, 2001, 8:27 p.m. CST

    This is just sad.

    by 4N6NDB8

    Funny story. I was watching this stinker at the new Loew's in Boston Common and about 45 minutes into it, the screen went red and the fire alarm started sounding. So this woman in front of me asks, "Is the theater on fire?" And the guy next to her goes, "If it isn't yet, it will be when this movie ends." But seriously. I'm sorry, but all you folks (Harry included) flailing about for some shred of meaning or consistency to ascribe to that ending are in denial. You want, nay, you need something remotely intelligent, something that borders on 'uber cool' during this long, hot summer of execrable cinema. And you're willing to do whatever it takes to get that cup of aesthetic H20 to your dry, parched lips. Even if it means MAKING UP ENDINGS THAT DID NOT HAPPEN. There's just no way for me to address all of these bizarre, desperate theories I'm reading, but I'll try to give a quick overview. Sorry, but if Burton wants Thade back in time subjugating humanity, he has to give us some plausible reason to believe that Thade can go back in time (a super weapon Wahlberg was carrying? nuclear codes? anything?) and take over the planet at some point after the Lincoln Memorial and the reflecting pool were built. Also, he has to give him some means of controlling time travel (rather than just being thrown around by it), which the far more advanced humans couldn't seem to do. Also, he has to explain how apes populate the planet in under a century. None of this is in the film. It easily could have been hinted at, BUT IT WASN'T. Silence implies consent, Thade back in time wasn't the writer/director's intent. (Hey, that's Johnny Cochran-esque.) I'm not even going to touch the 'Wahlberg actually went forward at the end' theory. The apes just happen to copy every aspect of human development down to the clothes and the placement of monuments, cities, and streets? Please. Ah well, hope springs eternal.

  • July 27, 2001, 8:34 p.m. CST

    YOU PEOPLE ALL missed the freaking point, it IS earth, but in th

    by se7en-x2000

    Harry Harry Harry How could you have missed the ENTIRE POINT of the planet of the apes. Goinna keep this simple, Mark Wahlberg Travelled back in TIME to earth, but a LONG TIME AGO, say.... 10,000 years ago. When humans were just getting it going on. It was OUR PLANET. THEN when he went BACK TO HIS TIME, it was altered. because THANE WAS ALIVE when he left, and THAN WAS THE FACE ON THE STATUE, it said his name behind him. He hated humans so he PROBABLY killed all the humans and he was in his present time. He came back to the EXACT TIME HE LEFT, but because he went BACK IN TIME he altered history. Get it? ok good. BEcause it seems you and everyone else missed the point. You downplayed this great movie but I think it was too much for you, too ABOVE your head. No offense, you usually get this stuff, but it seems like this movie was too intelligent for most people and since they figure "oh it's a hollywood movie it's goinna be spoon fed" sorry kids, but this movie was a little too smart for you, PROVING that Hollywood HAS to downplay stuff because people don't get it. Sorry to attack you Harry, Everything you have ever said in my 3 years of reading your site I have basically agreed with, cept this. Regards, Clint Vander Klok [Remember - Wherever ya go - There ya are] www.se7en-x.com

  • July 27, 2001, 8:43 p.m. CST

    Clones

    by ApesApesApes

    What if the apes that were on the Oberon were clones of apes being used in experiments on Earth already? That would explain how Thade could be on both POTA and Earth. I definitely agree with Harry's theory that Mark goes back to Earth at the end of the movie but to a time that is between 2029 and when he lands on the POTA. The experimentation that is being done on the apes explains how they become advanced on Earth as well.

  • July 27, 2001, 8:50 p.m. CST

    How about this

    by ApesApesApes

    What if the apes that were on the Oberon were clones of apes being used in experiments on Earth already? That would explain how Thade could be on both POTA and Earth. I definitely agree with Harry's theory that Mark goes back to Earth at the end of the movie but to a time that is between 2029 and when he lands on the POTA. The experimentation that is being done on the apes explains how they become advanced on Earth as well.

  • July 27, 2001, 9:58 p.m. CST

    Lemmy: I don't think Heston said that

    by Wormboy

    Lemmy said: "I'm going to have to disagree with Robogeek on the Heston cameo. Heston's character bitching about guns and saying that people with guns are evil has made my day. Heston (Mr NRA) had to have appreciated the irony of his character. That was really my favorite little moment in the movie..." IIRC--and I just saw it an hour ago--Heston's ape never said anything about *evil*. He said: "Here is more power than a thousand spears." Standard conservative outlook. "Here is what makes our power no greater than theirs." (I know that's worded wrong--forgive me.) Even more explicitly conservative. It casts guns as the great equalizer, something Heston definately believes. "It shows that their viciousness and cruelty is as great as our own." He didn't say that guns made them evil--or that they were evil at all. He said "vicious and cruel." Now, that doesn't exactly tie in with any premise of progun philsophy--not really--but neither does it contradict said philosophy. I wouldn't be suprised to hear Charleton Heston expound on the cruelty of mankind and the horror of war. He would probably continue to say "that's why we need to be able to protect ourselves from both criminals and tyrannical governments." Frankly, when he started his lines about guns, not only was I not shocked to hear Charleton "cold dead fingers" Heston saying such things--I said to my friend, "Yup, that's Heston all right." I think that's one reason Burton had the gun out of commission for so much of the movie, not playing any kind of integral role. Especially after letting Heston say things that support his NRA political philosophy, Burton didn't want the movie to be about guns being used to free an enslaved people.

  • July 27, 2001, 10:03 p.m. CST

    Like "Battlefield Earth" with monkeys

    by TheYoungLion

    This film was so horrible, and I can't possibly tell all the reasons why here. Uninspired, unsuspenseful, one-note characters and interactions with no chemistry, references to the first film that played as parody rather than homage, and OH! the incredibly bad dialogue. Also, there were so many things that didn't make any sense and just left you scratching your head (like the atrociously bad ending). I had expectations that this would be at least a competent movie. But it was just plain bad. If you want to compare the brilliant and inspired Hollywood of old with the clueless and vapid corporate Hollywood of today, just compare the original POTA with this clunker.

  • July 27, 2001, 10:07 p.m. CST

    TIM BURTONS GEEK LOVE WOULD BE AMAZING!

    by ryan mecum

  • for Helena Bohnam Carter, Cary Tagawa, and Paul Giamatti's performances. Helena made me believe that an ape can be sexy. And so did Cary Tagawa. Wow - can you say "underappreciated"? That's how I feel he is in H-Town. I was there in San Diego for his Q&A in the POTA panel. He was incredible. Absolutely. And after seeing his performance. Whoa. Paul Giamatti - he who stood out in Private Parts as "Pig Vomit" and he also STOOD out in that oh-so-small part as a bell boy in My Best Friend's Wedding. Well, he took another movie as Limbo here in POTA. Amazing. I do have to say that Tim Roth was overwhelming as Thade. As for Marky - can you say "ZZZZZZZZZZZ"? He was B O R I N G. They should have pushed for that "romance" between his character and Helena's ape character. They did have a chemestry with each other on screen. As a matter of fact, the ape Helena was so much more interesting and sexier than that "I'm Here as Eye Candy Only" Estella chick. She was definitely one note. As for the ending? Lame. That's it. It was a easy way out. Cheap shot. I'm sorry, it certainly did not feel "Twilight Zonish" to me. Uh uh. It felt like a "we need a surprise ending like the original, and we have only so much time, and the suits at the studio are getting on us for this, so lets hurry guys and gals....." type of ending.....Mr. Burton betrayed my belief in him. After Beetlejuice, Ed Wood and Batman Returns, oh lets throw in Sleepy Hollow - I really believed that this would be something big. But alas twas not meant to be. And what the hell is up with a PG-13 rating? They needed to go all balls out for this and get that R rating!

  • July 27, 2001, 10:15 p.m. CST

    The Emperor Ape has no ending...

    by Zardoz

    This is without a doubt the suckiest summer that ever sucked! Every single "event" movie is a huge turd! Pearl Harbor, Tomb Raider, and now Planet of the Apes take the top three spots for King of the Turds! Who cares what the non-sensical ending was supposed to mean? It was dumb and anacronistic to the rest of the film. Here's the way it should have been done: Marky goes back through the wormhole and arrives just after he went into it. Result: a time-paradox. Since he hasn't disappeared, the Oberon doesn't crash, because it doesn't go after him into the wormhole. So, the Apes are never "created" on the Planet of the Apes. In essence, by leaving the planet, Marky has "destroyed" all of the life there. Final words of the film: Marky: "What do you mean there's no life? There's a whole planet of Apes down there!" Commander:"If there was one before now, it doesn't exist anymore...." (which also neatly references the former film, as well!) Sure, similar paradoxes have been done before, but this or anything else would have been better than the one they chose. What a major, major disapointment...

  • July 27, 2001, 10:15 p.m. CST

    Why make an ending at all?

    by JSevush

    What did I just watch? A better question is, "what movie did everyone posting watch?" I applaud each of the 'possible endings' I've read as creative and quite inventive (any of them would have made for an acceptable alternative to what I saw). But how can any of them be justified by anything Burton gives us? It was my impression that it's the filmmaker's job to tell his story, not the viewer's job to 'make it up' for him. And while I hate movies that "hit you over the head" with plot points and movie themes, worse yet is not to say anything at all. If Burton knew his story, he failed to communicate it to his audience. The primary job of a storyteller is to TELL A STORY! I have a suggestion to Tim Burton and the people at FOX: Next time you make a film with a "create your own ending," don't even bother filming the resolution, just cut to a title card that reads "add ending here" and spare yourselves the million dollars in shooting costs. Better yet, don't even film a movie at all, just let movie-goers make up their own stories in the theater for two hours and charge them $9.50 to do it.

  • July 27, 2001, 10:16 p.m. CST

    My interpretation of ending (same as rcfuzz)

    by Crazy Ass

    After seeing Planet of the Apes I found that I really enjoyed Tim Burton's take on the classic with the possible exception of the ending. On the way home I kept going over it in my head, trying to come up with any possible explanation of how it would make sense. What I finally came up with was the exact interpretation that rcfuzz got. If you think about it, that's really the best possible way to explain the ending and I think if that's what the filmakers had in mind, than I'm totally satisfied. Harry's idea of other smart apes from Earth taking over? Wouldn't make sense since the inscription behind the monument in the end mentioned Thade. The whole idea of Thade escaping and returning to Earth before Leo and taking over? Not likely, as the main station was out of fuel, so the only way Thade could have done it was to go back into the jungle to find Leo's space pod (which was underwater and apes are afraid of water), fix it up, learn to pilot it, figure out where the hell to go with it, and then take over an entire planet by himself (I doubt many other apes could have fit inside the pod). The whole alternate Earth theory? Where the hell did alternate dimensions come into the story? I doubt Tim Burton would have suddenly tacked on the whole different dimension arc at the end. So the only ending that really made sense to me was the Earth=POTA idea. Think about it. At the beginning of the movie, the commander guy says they're receiving all of earth's incoming transmissions from all of time. The last one they showed was of the may day from the station Leo saw in the ruins. Also, they also said the electromagnetic field thing screws with electrical devices, explaining why Leo's pod says he was travelling forward in time(BTW, how could a space pod tell what year it was???) Leo had to have traveled back in time to an Earth before civilization (which also explains the horses), and when he left, all Thade had to do was break out and reconquer the planet. Leo goes back to the present, and BAM...Apes. As for why the Ape culture in the end looked exactly like ours? Well I think Tim Burton went for the surprise ending to pay homage to the original POTA, and he made the ape world=human world in the ending to pay homage to the POTA sequels, which basically made ape society look very much like human society. Anyways, I cant explain the whole 2 stars thing, but I think this is the only interpretation that makes some sense.

  • July 27, 2001, 10:24 p.m. CST

    BTW: I can explain the ending........

    by Smugbug

    it goes like this: the writers of this movie didn't even know themselves. Yep, folks. Think about it: it can't be set in the future or in the past. WE, the audience, SAW the time dial. And saw the look in Leo's face - he too thought he was in the right timeline. Okay - so that eliminates any "future/past timeline" issues. As for a "parallel" deminsion - wouldn't that take away from the impact of the movie? It would be much more stronger if it was indeed set on Earth. Therefore all these theories as to what the ending represents are....well....kinda worthless. So, the folks who wrote this movie shot themselves in the foot after realizing that they had to create their own "surprise" ending. And were probably hoping none of us were paying attention to the time dial closeups.

  • July 27, 2001, 10:25 p.m. CST

    I liked when Ari rolled over and said to Leo: "I haven't been fu

    by Mayhem Ensues

    Or the part where Leo says "You're not the boss of me, Thade! You're not the king of Leo! I'm the boss of me! I'm the king of me. I'm Leo Davidson! I'm the star! It's my big dick and I say when we roll!"

  • July 27, 2001, 10:36 p.m. CST

    tim roth's general

    by ProFromDover

    I thought he was kind of a simean version of Gary Oldman's cop in Leon. And could we possibly turn down the sound effects. I expected alot more from Tim Burton. I mean even his bad films were entertaining. This just reeked of hollywood, not to mention just reeked. And could they have possibly thrown in another scene where an ape pops up. SsSsSSsscCccCCCAaaAAaAaaarRRRrrryYYYYYYyy.

  • July 27, 2001, 11:05 p.m. CST

    Anyone read "Monkey Planet"? *spoiler*

    by evil_otto

    I personally thought the film was great, if abrupt in the beginning. The ending is pretty much taken from the original novel that the whole series was based on - Pierre Boulle's Monkey Planet. In that novel, the hero also returns to Earth, only to find it vastly changed; Boulle had the character of Nova make the trip back with him. I thought it was a fitting ending, and it made sense for the die-hard fans. Love it or hate it, Burton has people talking long after the movie's over.

  • July 27, 2001, 11:12 p.m. CST

    APESH*t

    by skinimax

    This was by far the most clever big budget movie thats come out since batman, it restored my faith in big budget films and Tim Burton (lost since mars attacks!) HollyWood can kiss tim burton and danny elfmans ass! pwo

  • July 28, 2001, 12:19 a.m. CST

    this movie's getting crushed under the weight of its own hype

    by Cthulu

    The biggest problem with this movie is the original Planet of the Apes. If I do decide to see this movie, I am NOT watching the original hours or even days prior. That's just freaking ridiculous. It's like reading JAWS just before you watch JAWS. You'll be sitting there going "What about the love affair between Brody's wife and Hooper? Why doesn't Quint look the way he was described in the book? What is it with the gas tank in the shark's mouth, like anybody's gonna believe that??? OH MANNN, HOOPER LIVES??? FUCKING HOLLYWOOD!!" instead of sitting there and watching the movie for what it is (Same goes double for ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOO'S NEST). Maybe this remake is indeed the creamy pile of dogshit it wreaks of, but to sit there with your checklists -- "Why do the humans talk? They didn't talk in the original. Why doesn't this shock ending work as well? It worked perfectly in the original." -- that's just plain ludricrous. Let this thing stand or fall on its own merits or failures. Having said that, I will probably not see this movie because after seeing all the hype I know my expectations are set to "kill." If this movie falls so much as an inch short of all the lip-billboard-trailer-service it's been given over the past year, I'll get really pissed off and wished I never spent the time and money on it. I will simply save my money, sit in my easy chair and "re-imagine" POTA, and it will be very, very good.

  • July 28, 2001, 12:21 a.m. CST

    See Final Fantasy Instead!

    by PixBits

    Planet of the Apes will be around for a few more weeks. Instead of standing in line, help save a good movie instead. See Final Fantasy! I read all the negative reviews before I saw it and I must say that they simply do not hold up. I've seen this movie 13 times and can see it again. I haven't been this enthralled with a movie since Star Wars back in 1977. Funny thing...all the negative comments my friends had for Star Wars back then are the same negative comments I'm reading about FF. So go judge for yourself if you haven't seen it yet. See it again if you have, even if you didn't like it. Maybe you will this time. The Japanese themes and very Japanese ending are OK in my book! Final Fantasy is hurting from a very poor promotional campaign or lack of one. Legally Blonde, the movie that beat FF, had large full color ads of Reese Witherspoon in the Detroit papers for DAYS before it opened. Final Fantasy had nothing until the day it opened and then it was a dark black box with just the title. It should've had the full color ad with pictures of the characters. It would've helped the casual movie goer who didn't know what Final Fantasy was. I think Columbia also dropped the ball on their test marketing. From what I can tell, having been there and sending friends to see it, this movie should've been promoted to adults. They are enjoying it the most. So go see Final Fantasy this weekend and help keep it in theatres a couple more weeks for those who haven't seen it and want to. The Apes will wait. Thank you!

  • I can't believe you all diss a beautifully crafted (yet flawed) film like A.I. but eat up this shitty excuse for a remake! Ooooo I mean "re-visioning"... Lets see a astronaut crashes on a planet, then he's captured by intelligent apes who run the planet that keep humans as slaves whom they regard as primitives, then the astronaut and his new human girlfriend are helped to escape by a kind chimp, then there's a twist ending involving a national monument.. Wow your right, it's not a remake at all! What I don't get is the ape society is so primitive they don't have guns yet the female apes wear make-up and have salon hair? Why would the apes see the humans as animals without souls when they all speak with college level diction? Also why do all the humans look shower fresh? Also is it my imagination that estelle was wearing light make-up? If someone besides freak-boy directed this Harry and the rest of you where call this film a big turd (which is what it is.)Listen up you geeky fanboys, just because you think Burton is God Almighty for directing your all-time fav film "Peewee's Big Adventure" it does not mean this movie is even remotley good! This film makes "The Phantom Menace" look like "The Empire Strikes Back"!

  • July 28, 2001, 1:32 a.m. CST

    The human's are made intentionally soulless

    by hktelemacher

    The majority of truly multi-dimensional people out there are only in movies. Many people are just smarter animals, and that seems to be a big point in Tim Burton's POTA, a movie I liked except for the last twenty minutes when I started wishing I had fallen asleep and was dreaming an ending that pretty much sucked. I got it, but I just didn't like it. Up to that point, though, the flick delivered. My main problem was that it jumped from A to B to C etc. too fast. I wish that the pace had been slowed and ape culture could have been examined more. Being a HUGE fan of the original series, I think I've always sort of been working over alternate sequel ideas in my head since I was a little kid, and there's such a vast well of potential to be tapped. It's sad that a lot of it isn't, and it strikes me as odd that in this kind of a venue a more broad political statement couldn't co-exist happily with good action sequences. It's always one or the other nowadays. The anti-gun element of the flick related to contemporary times, but looking back on the first films, the social problems that were faced thirty years ago are still in full effect today. The visuals didn't disappoint, I just wish that Burton or Zanuck or Fox could have filmed a better draft of the script. The end seemed lazy and uninspired, and had the writer's just thought a little harder I'm sure they could have pulled the story together in a much nicer way. The philosophy of "we can't top the original ending, so why bother" is bullshit. Also, the one dimensional human characters could at least have been given original traits or characteristics, but from an ape's point of view the humans all look the same to them. Overall, a good flick I wouldn't mind seeing again just to enjoy the luscious visuals.

  • July 28, 2001, 1:45 a.m. CST

    sad

    by EPdefender

    This movie reminded me of Final Fantasy, where the majority of the movie was just mediocre action flick. But like FF, they had to come up with an absolutely make no sense ending. Why bother, just end it with more explosions and machine guns and shit. That would have been just fine. And to those that compare this retarded movie to the mastepiece AI, you should get a big dildo and shove it up your ass.

  • July 28, 2001, 1:55 a.m. CST

    Alternate Earths

    by CKubasik

    Harry, Nice try, but no matter what stage Burton picked up this project, he put his name on a vanity credit, and this piece of shit his his. He wants the dough without the respsonsibility, he should to the respectible thing: do an A. Smithey and admit he's working as a whore. As for the ending: Folks, we're talking about a movie where one of the far-too-numerous, dull, talking humans can say, "Word of you is spreading. They've come to their villages to see the for themselves the spaceman who resists the apes." (Or some such.) Reality check. Our merry band of adventurers hasn't seen a single human since they left the city. What word? What spreading? This isn't a matter of an plot-hole. This is Burton and crew simply not giving a fuck. They just don't. They threw on an ending as lame-assed and illogical as the line above. Why you folks don't start postulating theories as to how all these villagers heard about Leo while you're at the time/travel alternat earth thing, I don't know. Just because it's a SF problem. Don't. It's not worth your time. They didn't give a fuck, and you shouldn't either. Alternate Earths: Once, in the past there was a time when movies were fun and engaging. Then I woke up one Summer, and found that I went to the movies and saw Swordfish, A.I., Tomb Raider, Mummy Returns, Pearl Harbor (okay, I didn't see PH; that fire was bright enough not to stick my hand into), JPIII and Planet of the Apes and realized that I'd slipped into an alternate universe where shoddiness and lack of love for the medium ruled the planet and we were all slaves who kept making excuses because they're just "Summer Movies." But, you gawd-damned apoligists, simply watch the original POTA against the new "Soundstage of the Apes" and you'll see that things are worse and no one Hollywood seems to care. Clearly, this is not the Earth I was born on.

  • July 28, 2001, 2:44 a.m. CST

    The dichotomy of the fan, or "They (the internet movie rumor sit

    by Andy Travis

    Did you read that little paragraph on the Internet Movie Database about that? Burton basically talks about how dark the guys on these websites are, and how they make a filmmaker's life a living hell. I find this dichotomy fascinating: How these sites are run and viewed by fans who are the reason these movies are made, and yet they seem to delight in stripping down and criticizing every nuance of them, ad infinitum. The "fan" response to Phantom Menace is perhaps the epitome of this strange phenomenon. Why does this happen?

  • July 28, 2001, 4:44 a.m. CST

    Ape Sequels

    by zeedox

    I think that the ending of the film wanted to put a tad of the elements from the "Caesar" films, "Battle", "Conquest", etc. The franshise always teeters from an ape city to a metropolitan one. It works. Not as good as the orginal tho, but still fun. We miss Roddy!

  • July 28, 2001, 5:06 a.m. CST

    The Ending

    by Jack Burton

    Okay heres my take on the ending which I've thought through a bit after seeing the film and reading everyones opinion about it. It seems plausible with a few holes which I'll let the script writer(s) get away with for arguments sake, but usually the simpliest answer is the correct answer. Now In the beginning one of the Oberon crew shows that they are receiving signals of earth transmissions from ALL times from that electro-magnetic storm. They are also orbiting some planet with 2 suns which obviously cannot be earth. So the chimp gets lost and Marky Mark goes to find him in the electromagnetic storm. Then there is a bunch of special effects showing him getting warped through space and time supposedly. I've read the posts about his time chronometer thingy, but lets say for argument that even if it is going forward or backwards whos says its accurate? I think a clock would have some frikin trouble ascertaining what time it is after warping through time and space. And all the digital clocks stopped working on the Oberon when they got near the storm. And all his systems shutdown and go haywire when he enters the atmosphere of the planet. Now heres the part I could have my facts mixed up, but did you see 2 suns after he goes through the storm? or any recognizable land features through the special effects of him entering the atmosphere of the planet? Or 2 suns down on the planet in the horizon? I don't remember any so heres what i think. The planet that the space station is orbiting in the beginning is some kind of misdirection to make you think that the planet that the ship crash lands on is some alien planet. Because how the hell did horses get on the planet? How does it have the exact same atmosphere and gravity, etc, etc. Don't tell me they needed horses on that ship. Now that electro-magnetic storm is some kinda of 'wormhole' or doorway that leads him to earth. Otherwise why the hell put in techno-babble about signals from earth being reflecting back toward them? So he crash lands (in our past before humans evolved)and they run around for a bit blah blah blah. Now we get near the end of the movie and his chimp finally lands near them (just in time to break up the fight, convenient). Then he imprisons Thade in the control room, using his hand print on the panel. Remember what the General says about Thade's unyielding personality? So now he goes back through the wormhole storm and presumably back to 'earth'. He lands and we see the monument of Thade and the inscription of how he saved the planet. The theory that Thade somehow stole one of the pods on the crashed Oberon and figured out how to use it doesn't MAKE ANY SENSE ("It doesn't make sense, you must aquit. If Chewbacca lives on Endor you must aquit!" -sorry some southpark humor). Someone pointed out that only pods Alpha and Delta? were used. And the computers on the command bridge still worked so in theory the other pods could work too (And in theory communism works as well). If this was the case why didn't Marky Mark think of this? Probably because it wasn't the case. And even if Thade did somehow work the pod and go back to the presumed 'earth', how does he single handedly populate it and take it over? The Pod holds one person (or chimp I guess) What did he breed Asexually or with the Apes on 'earth' I think not. It simplier to deduce that they (helena carter or one of the others) got Thade out of the Oberon somehow and put him in a prison and such. I don't think they would just leave him there to rot, but who knows. He then got free and led his holy war to exterminate humans. Which could have been prevented if Marky Mark stayed and helped. So when marky mark goes back to what he thinks is his 'earth' even though he's been there the whole time there is a society that looks like modern day earth, but ruled by apes. The reason for making everything look to closely (technology and monuments) like our society is for impact and irony(a hole in the script). Of course if the apes really did kill off the humans after Marky Mark left they would have evolved differently, but then the movie would not really have the SURPRISE ending like the orginal movie. Also if Thade did get free and kill all the humans then when Marky Mark returns to his 'earth' time period 2029AD?(if his clock was accurate) The Apes would be extremely advanced taking in to consideration that when the Oberon crashed landed on 'earth' it was like 200000-300000 B.C.(Not sure if this time is accurate I mean pre-homosapien times. To think that the ending took place on an alternate earth where Marky Mark died and Thade suceeded in killing off all the humans in the big battle would be pointless and make everything that Marky Mark and all the other Humans and 'Good' Apes did invalid and a waste of time because it has nothing to do with the struggle that they went through. Now if everything did take place on earth then the irony is he should have stayed or killed Thade because he got free and killed all the humans. Also one another interesting tidbit, remember when Marky Mark insults the Ex-General Gorilla by called them monkeys? The Ex-General says monkeys are less evolved. Now I don't think they would have brought 'regular' apes on board the Oberon to fly those pods. Which could mean the monkeys the Ex-General is talking about are 'our' ancestors: the native apes to earth not the gene-spliced ones brought by the Oberon. To sum it up I think the storm appeared to make him travel through space but really just different time periods. So he crash lands in earths past, changes the timeline and the evolution of the species. He then jumps forward in time or sometime close his present, and finds that Thade somehow did killed all the humans in some kind of uprising and was crowned savior of the planet(just because it seems like everyone gets along near the end doesn't mean they do, I mean look at our society and we are the same species for crying out loud and we kill one other for mindless reasons). Not too simple, but better then reaching by thinking up 'alternate universe' or 'Thade high-jacking a pod back to earth and killing all the humans single-handedly' theories. Yes there a few technical problems with this theory, but whens the last time you traveled through a electro-magnetic storm in deep space? Was your clock accurate? Hopefully this rant makes some kinda sense. "Shutup Mr. Burton. You are not brought upon this world to 'get it'" -David Lopan

  • July 28, 2001, 6:43 a.m. CST

    a couple additions to your theories

    by billman

    Thade was left behind in the control room, which had access to the database. At the beginning of the movie they received all transmissions ever transmitted on Earth. Possibly, he could have figured out, with the help of the database, how to escape and fix the pod. They also left the monkey behind who know how to fly the pod. It may have taken a few years but he could have had enough loyal apes to help him do things like force humans to retrieve the pod, learn about Earth, fix the pod and learn how to fly it. Mix this up with the rest of the theories and maybe there is a reasonable explanation for a half-assed ending.

  • July 28, 2001, 7:35 a.m. CST

    Harry- It's Planet of the APES, not Planet of the HUMANS

    by houndog

    First of all, I really enjoyed the hell out of this. To me it wasn't so much science fiction as it was juxtaposition. The "hunt" when Wahlberg first arrives wasn't as gripping, but it seemed to bring home the point of a human Kristalnacht(sp?) better than the original. I don't care if the human characters were underdeveloped. They were an underdeveloped society, so for me it set just fine. This is not the worst film that Burton has made, on the contrary. That dubious "honor" must go to MARS ATTACKS. However, like that film, I feel in a few years we will look back and say, "Pretty good stuff".

  • ..during some period , now erased from history , when apes ruled over humans.I believe the astronaught character was more of a scientist type, meant to mentally regress somehow{more like the time travel, of the original french version of 12 Monkeys}Fox I assume were worried that this treatment was too far away from the original movie/premise.But, Some elements of his version seem to still remain, in the finished movie...So the idea that it is Earths past, rather than future you're seeing makes more sense, And a planet *other* than Earth run by apes has no real dramatic impact anyway..Burton either clouded the issue on purpose, by showing a planet with two suns.. as his only means of creating a trick ending to rival the originals ...or he did an awful job of getting his point across.The idea that the apes world of present day, would look just like ours, is a corny pulp sci -fi thing but it is a convention of this sort of story.

  • July 28, 2001, 8:50 a.m. CST

    The 41 second ending, let's examine

    by T_S_7

    1. The space station was around Saturn, in the year 2029. 2. Wahlberg goes 500-1000 years into the future, and crashes on some planet. 3. POTA has several planets, stars around it, CLEARLY can't be Earth. 4. The station crashed a few thousand years before Wahlberg. 5. Without the station crashing, the planet would have had no apes or humans. 6. Wahlberg leaves, MIRACULOUSLY hitting the exact same "time comet" or whatever? 7. Time spins back, he's roughly around the same time he returned from. 8. He flies from Saturn to the Earth in about 10 seconds. Let's not even get into that. 9. During his return, he never once makes any sort of contact to figure out that something might be slightly wrong about "Earth". 10. Knowing he'll crash, he aims for a populated city!!?? 10. After crashing, he sightsees, taking in the Lincoln Memorial. 11. Horrors. It's Thade! 12. If the Apes took over Earth (which they would have had to do despite fear of water), why would they create the FUCKING REFLECTING POOL? This is the worst ending I have ever seen. Nothing can explain it! He wasn't on the Earth to begin with, that is clear. So somehow the apes re-conquered POTA (even though humans outnumbered them 4-1), achieved space flight and superior firepower...but wait, the Earth looks like the late 20th century, the Apes would have to be more advanced than that to take over, but if they did, they would let things look the same? So we HAVE TO UNFORTUNATELY FUCKING ASSUME that it's been the same planet all along. Then the Apes have convienently managed to DUPLICATE what the...oh forget it...

  • July 28, 2001, 9:04 a.m. CST

    The truth is this movie is just very dumb

    by GMorton

    The recent trend in movies since The Sixth Sense seems to be twist endings. The entire movie hints at this twist, but it is not overly obvious, and most people don't figure it out. There are supposed to be hints throughout the movie that lead to the twist, and when people watch it again, they are supposed to see these hints and can't believe they didn't realize what the end would be. Then Planet of the Apes comes out, and instead of leaving hints to a twist ending it just throws one in. It wasn't well thought out, it wasn't hinted at, hell, it doesn't even make any sense. I have read every post at this site trying to determine what the ending meant, and none of the theories work very well. Harry's idea of the genetic engineered apes on earth taking over is flawed because of Thade's statue. Had there been no statue that would be the most tolerable ending I think, because it would explain why the apes had our technology. The one about Thade taking a ship and going through the storm and taking over earth is flawed in even more ways. He was locked in the control room of a dead ship. Say he managed to launch a pod while in that room, he would be alone. One person could not kill 6 billion people, I'm sorry, not in any time period. The gun would run out of ammo, and he only had one. The pod idea makes no sense because you can't carry enough people to take over a planet. If he had taken the Oberon somehow, which would be impossible, and managed to get the entire army on board (the army that seemed like it was ready for human/ape relations and didn't believe in Thade's ideas), it is possible that they got to earth at some point in time and conquered the humans, which is total BS. But the apes could not repopulate the planet that fast, if they had enough time to repopulate they would have to go back at least 100 years, so the technology would not grow because they aren't inventors. It just wouldn't be possible for a group of apes to repopulate the earth and mimic our future technology. Then there's the one that Leo went back in time (disregarding the time clock that they made a purpose of putting in there and zooming in on, I mean how many pods would have a time clock in it for no reason...), and after going back in time and helping the humans and going back to earth, thade escaped, killed the humans (again disregarding the entire change of heart everyone faced after the battle), and then when leo went back to the past, he really went to the future of the same planet and thades had become the historical figure. That makes no sense because if it was earth, why did it seem to have multiple moons when leo took off. If humans never really developed, how would they know to build Washington so perfectly, and cop cars that look the same, and so on. If it was in their DNA or whatever someone said, wouldn't their earlier civilization be different too. There are flaws in all of them, and to be honest, I bet there is no real ending, Burton just threw it in to make the movie appear clever, so that people would talk about it the next day with other people, then those people would see the movie to see if they could understand it. It seems like a big marketing ploy: The ending that makes no sense. People that think they are smart will think they can figure it out, and others will see it again and again to see if they can find any answers. I mean it seems to be working, it sure has people talking. I'm going to stop giving the ending any credit as being a real twist because it isn't. It's just a joke. Maybe his Pod was letting out too much oxygen so when he landed he was high, and thought everyone was an ape. Maybe he suffered brain damage. To me that is the only ending that could make sense: that he was hallucinating. If they have a sequel and cover it in any other way, they will be flawed. I am sick of movies that are lacking a well thought out story, which seems to be all the junk coming out this summer (Jurassic Park 3 for one). Hopefully Made will be different. And to whoever said that we are all geeks for contemplating the ending: This is a message board, the whole purpose is so people can say what they think. If people don't understand something, I think they have a right to say that, and the people that posted their ideas are just posting what they though might have happened. We don't complain about every movie, just movies that don't make sense and aren't thought out, like this movie. That was all just my 2 cents.

  • July 28, 2001, 9:16 a.m. CST

    Alternate ending in my theater!

    by gboybama

    You guys are going to love this. When I saw the film last night, there was an alternate ending. When Pericles (?) landed the pod in the middle of the Human/Ape fight, I believe he scampers inside the Oberon and Mark gives chase. It's a desperate moment where you aren't sure whether the Apes will view this as their savior's return, and thus a validation of their belief system, or if Mark will be able to convince them of the truth. Mark runs after the chimp and Thade decends on him and begins to pound him into next week. As his fist comes down onto Mark with a concussive boom in the theater, the screen goes black, the house lights come up instantly and people start looking around nervously. I thought, "Wow, Mark was close to proving his point and Thade just knocked him the 'F' out. Movie over. Not a bad ending." Best of all, it was an HONEST ending. Someone in the back of the theater exclaimed, ironically, I think, "Tim Burton is a genius!" It was a really funny theatrical moment, but before long the movie started its remaining run to the illogical ending that everyone else saw. Yet, I'll always remember the bittersweet and abrupt ending I first saw. It made the movie into a real tragedy where Thade wins the day fair and square...without any time shift/alternate universe hooey. No credits roll. The house lights come up and ask you to exit the theater and ponder whether a talking ape will greet you when you exit the room. It would have been sweet if they hadn't been able to play the rest of the movie. BTW, I can't believe Harry missed that the chronometer in the pod went back to the time Mark came from when he went on his return journey. He did not go further into the future. That makes Harry's take on the ending just impossible in my book...or at least a cheat.

  • July 28, 2001, 9:21 a.m. CST

    You can piss and moan all you want, it made 25 million on Friday

    by GravyAkira

    I thought the film kicked ass, but some geeks dont like anything.

  • July 28, 2001, 10 a.m. CST

    two words: 'Shit Sandwich'

    by Dr.Noise

  • July 28, 2001, 10:54 a.m. CST

    Harry's Geek Mythology

    by MCVamp

    The guy has a lot of "Gods," doesn't he? The last two he's mentioned? Otho from Beetlejuice and the director of Tron, ladies and gentlemen. I mean really, now. Someone get this man to a church or a Buddhist temple or something. Anyway, regarding the monkey movie, quite a few people have called this "Tim Burton's weakest movie to date." Well, know what? I've heard that about EVERY ONE of his movies since Edward Scissorhands. Either Tim's lost it, or maybe people's expectations are just falling. After a summer like this, I can understand.

  • July 28, 2001, 10:56 a.m. CST

    by MCVamp

    If Marky had sang "I hate every ape I see, from chimpan-A to chimpan-Z," it would be worth seeing twice.

  • July 28, 2001, 11:26 a.m. CST

    So why was Ape-raham Lincoln Gen. Thade?

    by Big Rube

    Harry, I get your point about the genetic engineering, but there are two flaws to your argument about the apes of Earth taking over. The first is that Wahlberg returns to a contemporary Earth. Do you really think those cop cars were thousands of years in the future? The second, and most glaring flaw is that the Ape-raham Lincoln Memorial (my name for it) is actually a memorial to General Thade... ON EARTH!!! How did HE get there? We leave him, quite alive, but caged on the bridge of the crashed mother ship. The inscription behind the statue to Thade speaks of some war on the planet, though it glides past too quickly for you to read completely. It was MOST DEFINITELY General Thade however. That means that the apes on Earth could not have overthrown the humans without extra-terrestrial help from whom? General Thade. How? I could suggest a number of different ways, though I am sure the normal army of screenwriters will come up with something wholly unbelievable for the sequel, that any one of them ALONE could have managed better. As for all of your other points, Harry, I am in some agreement (though the action, such as it was, in Sleepy Hollow was lame as well). The General Thade connection on Earth acually deepened my curiosity at the end. I did enjoy the film for its parts (though not the whole). I laughed heartily throughout (especially when either Carter or Warren gave lasting longing looks at Wahlberg). One last point... Was I the only one who didn't care too much for any of the characters (other than Thade, of course)? The only time when I reacted with any emotion was when Thade beat Pericles and the chimp crawled back into his broken cage.

  • July 28, 2001, 11:42 a.m. CST

    Ending Solved very easily

    by pc_graphix

    the plot problems mentioned concerning the ending are solved very easily....first the idea that this POTA is earth is bullshit the suns rule that out.....second the idea that thade somehow gets to earth is bullshit for too many reasons to name (however, if he did i think it would have been because a rescue team searched out the ship...there's no way the single seater pod theory works at all).....in the end we are left with one solution...Marky Mark never returns to earth and instead returns to a future POTA....but what about the clocks? THEY SAID THEY WERE MESSED UP BY THE STORM. you can't actually believe that a giant space stations clocks and equipment would be all fucked up from just being close to the space storm yet some dinky little one-seater pod's equipment would have no trouble at all as it goes into the storm, gets the hell beat out of it, and warps through time and space......but what about the apes looking like 90's humans and them having a statue of thade? THEY HAD OUR ENTIRE HISTORY ON VIDEO. thade was left alive and with a beginning understanding in technology (or at least with a gun) it's not hard to believe that he escapes (you are not going to have an entire civilization have an instant change of heart and be all equal with their human pets) Thade definitely would still have his supporters. realizing that their only weakness was one in invention and technology as our great NRA spokesperson told us...he decides he doesn't need to invent he just has to copy (or ape if you like bad humor) the earth's technological progression which convienently he now has on tape.....like i said easy. now you might ask this question...can an ape work the computer? yes first they have little space chimp but instead I place my faith in the fact that a number of super apes saw him use it including our comedic human slaver who also conveniently has the second bag which includes one of the gadgets that serve as a key. Now would our slaver help thade? of course...he just had his entire business taken away along with any kind of position or power he might have held.(he can only sell those asperin so long) He is a prime canidate. And yes, thade and a group of rebels could indeed easily take back over...first Thade is a badass not to be messed with and second they have a gun and technology which is the key to defeating troublesome apes and pesky talking humans. That is all, sweet dreams.

  • July 28, 2001, 12:14 p.m. CST

    Harry, I dissagree completely.

    by Shaz_bot80

    I aw this movie last night, and I thought the movie was superb UNTIL the ending. Every plot point was tied up. I loved how Mark Whalbergs' character tied into the whole planet and the surroundings. Acting was top notch. Characters, make up, story is golden, baby! My problem was the horrible ending. It was what killed it all for me. That "suprise ending" was the worst possible ending for that movie. I didn't feel any chills up my spine, not like seeing the ruins of the Statue of Liberty or anything like that. The point of the film is to show how we as a society act from a different perspective and also what may happen if we abuse power. The ending gave me NO sense of that. It came off as a cheesy gimmick. I knew we'd be in trouble as soon a Captian Davidson lands at the Lincoln Memorial. It should of just ended with Leo lifting off, leaving the question as to what is Leo's future. Will he take what he learned home with him? Will he ever get home. A note to all of you who haven't seen this, as soon as Leo takes off of the planet, LEAVE!

  • July 28, 2001, 12:48 p.m. CST

    Thade

    by Roger49er

    Just got back for seeing POTA and really thought that I was going to be the only one who thought it failed misserably. A real rollercoaster ride of sorts. There were a few scenes that made me think this movie was indeed going to be the "summer blockbuster"...the makeup was fantastic ON THE MALE APES but nobody on this message board seems to notice that the makeup on the FEMALE apes was dime-store stuff picked up from the local Halloween store. What gives? Was the budget running low. The only character that was truely believable was Thade. You hated him...were affraid of him...wanted him to jet his just deserts and more...that part should be noticed by next years Oscar voters. The plot had more hole than my sand sive but Thade will be remembered.

  • July 28, 2001, 1 p.m. CST

    I knew Burton couldn't pull this off!

    by Norm3

    I wish this was a straight remake, because Burton & Co. didn't no were to take this movie. As major fan of the original Apes movies, this one was flat! I sure wish James Cameron had done this movie with Arnold, as was originally planned. This movie needed a strong lead and Mark Walberg was not the answer. The only way this movie is making money is off its name, ala SW's Episode1

  • July 28, 2001, 1:02 p.m. CST

    I knew Burton couldn't pull this off!

    by Norm3

    I wish this was a straight remake, because Burton & Co. didn't no were to take this movie. As major fan of the original Apes movies, this one was flat! I sure wish James Cameron had done this movie with Arnold, as was originally planned. This movie needed a strong lead and Mark Walberg was not the answer. The only way this movie is making money is off its name, ala SW's Episode1

  • July 28, 2001, 1:16 p.m. CST

    the ending was confusing

    by PapaMarty

    Harry, I'm a projectionist in a theatre running "POTA" and the parts of the films I see the most is the ending while waiting to bring up the lights. This ending was not really and ending as it cleared up nothing. Nor did it resolve the heroes dilemma. I saw his launch from the Ape planet, his trip and watched his chronometer spin backwards (how do they do that? does his chono detect time and that he's moving backwards through it?) but it was so rushed that I could not see that he landed a thousand years in his future. And you couldn't tell from the technology we saw. Police cars looked like contemporary cars. The ape taking the picture had a current tech camera. And if this is an instance where apes took over the Earth from humans, The Lincoln Memorial should have a smashed statue of the human Lincoln, and the writings on the walls would be defaced and replaced by Ape rhetoric. You mentioned the great Rod Serling in your review. Yes I agree. This was much like his work in "The Twilight Zone." The shocking, O'Henry like, conclusion. What stuck out as wrong was the way this Earth so exactly like "our" Earth. Judging by surrounding structures like the Washington Monument in the background and the Lincoln Memorial I'd come to the conclusion that this was "our" Earth. Judging from the contemporary technology and the absence of evidence of past human domination of the planet, I conclude that this is a duplicate Earth where Apes evolved into smarter Apes, not humans. But the two don't mix. At least not so exactly as we see in the ending. This seemed to me as a cheap shock ending. From Wahberg's slow paced walk into the Lincoln Memorial, I knew something was "up". First thing that popped in my mind watching it was, "Damn, he's not in Kansas anymore, Toto." What would have been interesting would be it instead of Apes, this Earth was dominated by pigs, or dogs, or even mice(might have pleased the late Douglas Adams). Dolphins would be another obvious choice but a flooded Washington would have been a dead giveaway that this wasn't "our" Earth. Papa

  • July 28, 2001, 1:26 p.m. CST

    Ending simply explained

    by skynet5000

    POTA is not Earth. Why? Two suns, looks dramatically different than Earth when the pod/Leo leaves the planet and goes against the point that the humans and apes all descended from the inhabitants on the spacecraft. As for the horses --- you just have to suspend disbelief and believe they happen to exist on different planets (besides it makes the movie more exciting and horses were also in the original POTA). Anyway, General Thade went back in time with some other apes using the remaining pods --- remember they made the point that only A&D were used and Leo didn't have time to dig out the other ones whereas Thade had plenty of time and arguably a few strong loyal male/female apes to help his cause! Yes, Thade was trapped, but he was left alive for a very good reason --- a sequel! He obviously escaped since the Memorial is named after him and his "prison" was never meant to be escape-proof especially since it is on a ship that has crash landed. He and the other apes travelled back in time thousands of years before humans became such a dominant species on this planet --- this is the only way to explain the fate of an entire planet being changed. The Lincoln Memorial, Washington Monument, etc., all look similar to the way they look now since he broght back data files from the spaceship and requested that some day these monuments be made in his honor in an ultimate testiment to his own arrogance. They weren't built until long after his death, but his main goal was to wipe out mankind which is apparent from the look of shock in the ape-boy's face when he takes the picture of a human --- i.e., humans were not pets or rare animals... they no longer existed!

  • July 28, 2001, 2:33 p.m. CST

    The Ending, The Beginning, The Middle...

    by I Am Spartacus

    The ending makes perfect sense. They had this big, bloated, horrific piece of crap of a movie, so they gave it a big, bloated crappy ending. I went to see this despite knowing that it was gonna be a waste of time. I don't know what I was thinking. This film simply fails to engage the audience in any way. I saw it here in SoCal in a half full theatre of folks sitting there scratching their heads in puzzlement and disappointment. If Sleepy Hollow didn't warn you off Burton flicks, this one surely does. Tim, please, go make an original that comes straight from your head and your heart. You must have all the money you'll ever need by now. What I don't get is how anyone could have wanted to spend over a year of their life with this drivel. The single biggest reaction by the audience during the entire 2:25 was the trailer for Shallow Hal. Now THAT looked funny.

  • July 28, 2001, 2:38 p.m. CST

    Both planets were Earth!!!

    by SuperOstrich

    Reading everyone's opinion of the ending, I thought I'd submit my own. So Wahlberg's character (Leo) crashes on this mysterious planet where his mothership had crashed 1000's of years previously looking for him. They both got there through the storm which sent them through a time loop. This we all know. However, at the end we see Thade's face where the Lincoln memorial was. This through me for a major loop for awhile. It seemed highly unlikely that Thade found a way to get to Earth after his defeat on the mysterious planet. So....I believe that the mothership and Leo crashed on an ancient earth, before the existence of humans or evolved primates. Leo defeats Thade and leaves immediately. Thade is still alive and is most likely imprisoned or something. Humans of this ancient Earth take over the Apes over the course of say 10 years or so out of vengeance....due to the way they were treated previously by the apes. Thade is freed from prison by some renegade apes, and he liberates them and defeats the humans. Therefore, the future that Leo returns to had been run by Thade, and the apes are now the dominant species. What do ya think?

  • July 28, 2001, 2:38 p.m. CST

    SO WHO WAS THAT OLD MAN?!

    by wushuchef

    In the beginning of the movie, just as they lose Leo, the Oberon gets a transmission from an OLD MAN! IS it the captain of the Oberon after they'd crash landed on that planet and had grown old? Were they ironically getting transmissions from themselves through this wormhole? Was it an alternate Leo who was lost in the wormhole forever? Was Leo growning old and staying young while traveling through the hole all at once? I don't remember if the planet had 2 suns or not, but of all the theories posted, I would have to go with the one about this uncharted planet being Earth in the past. If there were 2 suns, then oh well, so much for that theory. Otherwise, all this ending is, is a tounge-in-cheek "Amazing Stories/Twilight Zone-esque" ending. Yeah it looks like Earth, it adds to to the irony, nothing more. It's like any episode of Sliders, or the alternate reality episode of the Simpsons where Homer lands in the perfect reality where his family is the greatest and it's raining doughnuts. It appears that many people are upset because this ending goes from hard sci-fi, to fantastic fantasy with no real explaination. I agree with Harry that Tim threw in his own touch of twisted humor at the end, and his "touch" has always bordered on the edge of, well, weird! I mean, this a movie about talking apes. That's weird, people. If you can accept the fact that talking apes speak perfect English with no problem, then perhaps the ending is not too far a stretch of the imagination to fathom either, eh? One really good point brought up earlier though, (and THIS has got to be a plot hole) where DID they get the horses? Oh well.

  • July 28, 2001, 2:43 p.m. CST

    Halloween68

    by Ebon Far

    Who gives a fuck about cut and paste? Take your head out of Tim Burton's lap and go read my other post for you, little boy.

  • July 28, 2001, 2:52 p.m. CST

    THE ENDING-STRAIGHT FROM BURTON HIMSELF!

    by JFunky

    Caught this on Cinescape today...here's a snippet of an interview with Tim... <p>"Ultimately, what audiences will be most interested in is the new film

  • July 28, 2001, 3:26 p.m. CST

    you talkbackers are ridiculous, it was a pretty good movie

    by THE PROFESSOR

    okay now , get off it already. it was definitly a "good" movie in my opinion. you poeple just pick apart everything.i thought the movie had a nice twist at the end, and it was easy to comprehend.it was definitly one of the better movies i ve seen this summer. now just go see it and stop whining.

  • July 28, 2001, 3:48 p.m. CST

    My review of PLANET OF THE APES

    by TylersAndrew14

    Grade C+ Planet of the apes is much better than alot of the other summer movies this year, it certainly aspires for more. But it is still a very flawed, and in many areas average movie. I am a huge Burton fan, I sort of see him as the gothic James Cameron. Both have never made a bad film(Cameron made piranhas 2 but im not counting that) and both regularly draw in large profits with their movies while still managing to create legitamate pieces of Film, and Burton will undoubtably make huge amounts of money with POTA, which is good because it will aford him the freedom to make all types of more...artistically inclined films, so I guess he's allowed to make a movies like this once in a while. Planet of the Apes is a mixed bag, its a little worst then Batman which I also gave **1/2( gave Batman Returns ***). Probably the best thing in the movie was the phenominal make-up, and Helenah Boham Carter, and Tim Roths preformances. There are good scenes and there are dull ones. An example of a good one was when a bunch of apes sit around a dinner table and begin discussing ape politics. There are bad lines scattered around the movie like "Can't we all get along". Wahlberg's preformance isn't horrible, but its nothing special, a bit lackluster if you ask me. There is a cool scene where a little girl ape locks a little human girl in a cage, more scenes like this would have been great. I really wanted them to stay in the ape city, so we could learn more about their culture. There is a nice fight sequence at the end also. Then theres the surprise ending which I loved in a wierd B movie way. Pota isnt as bad as alot are saying it is ,but yes it is a dissapointment. Hopefully Burton will stop "reimagining things" and do something original like EDWARD SCISSOR HANDS again. Which I gave ****

  • July 28, 2001, 4:09 p.m. CST

    A Better Ending would be...

    by Murraypalooza

    [ Leo crash lands in Washington DC, coming to a halt at the base of the Lincoln Monument. He gets out of his shuttle and looks around, happy to be home. He sits atop the steps for a moment, just glad to be away from that crazy planet. ]

  • July 28, 2001, 4:12 p.m. CST

    Thank God For Roth!!!!!

    by Notro

    The only thing I enjoyed about the movie was Tim Roth's performance....to early for Oscar???? The ending was definitely studio BS...

  • July 28, 2001, 4:42 p.m. CST

    THE ENDING EXPLAINED FOR REAL!!!!!

    by Derek Wildstar

    Everyone missed this subtle yet very important fact: The large craft, of which THADE was locked in the cockpit, had a RECHARGEABLE NUCLEAR ENGINE (this was explained in brief early in the film). Remember the close up of the fuel gauge as it hit empty when MARKY used the thrusters to nuke the apes? Well that fuel gauge RECHARGES, enabling THADE to figure out the mechanics and fly the huge ship through the time storm and back to earth. Im not saying this is a good expalnation, but it IS THE EXPALNATION of how THADE GOT BACK TO EARTH. Obviously THADE went back in time and freed the apes which led to a revolt and apes taking over earth. But back to THADE locked into the cockpit. Its true the ship was practically rubble, but if the engines and circuitry worked, it is possible THADE learned, like he did with the gun, to fly the craft off the ground. Its that simple!

  • July 28, 2001, 5:07 p.m. CST

    planet of the apes review

    by LEGBOY

    Harry, C'mon someone of your connectedness should know that "DarkHorizons" reported on the Lincoln Memorial filming months ago. You don't have to be a stranded rocket scientest to know that this would be used in a future tense "Statue of Liberty" kind of way. Please lay off Drudge. James.

  • July 28, 2001, 5:28 p.m. CST

    THIS IS A DAMN REMAKE!!!!!!!!!!!

    by JP3183

    Tim Burton can deny this but his version of POTA is no different than the original script. How does he expect anyone who has seen the original version to be surprised by the ending? Both have the same outcome.

  • July 28, 2001, 5:29 p.m. CST

    THIS IS A DAMN REMAKE!!!!!!!!!!!

    by JP3183

    Tim Burton can deny this but his version of POTA is no different than the original script. How does he expect anyone who has seen the original version to be surprised by the ending? Both have the same outcome.

  • July 28, 2001, 5:29 p.m. CST

    THIS IS A DAMN REMAKE!!!!!!!!!!!

    by JP3183

    Tim Burton can deny this but his version of POTA is no different than the original script. How does he expect anyone who has seen the original version to be surprised by the ending? Both have the same outcome.

  • July 28, 2001, 5:30 p.m. CST

    THIS IS A DAMN REMAKE!!!!!!!!!!!

    by JP3183

    Tim Burton can deny this but his version of POTA is no different than the original script. How does he expect anyone who has seen the original version to be surprised by the ending? Both have the same outcome.

  • July 28, 2001, 5:31 p.m. CST

    THIS IS A DAMN REMAKE!!!!!!!!!!!

    by JP3183

    Tim Burton can deny this but his version of POTA is no different than the original script. How does he expect anyone who has seen the original version to be surprised by the ending? Both have the same outcome.

  • July 28, 2001, 6:02 p.m. CST

    All these endings are wrong...

    by Spider99

    Harry, this is the true ending and I mean it... The planet Mark Wahlberg landed on WAS Earth, only thousands of years in the past. The reason why there are human-like apes, is because the OBERON landed on the planet thousands of years before him (because of the storm), messing up the evolutionary cycle. So instead of the humans evolving, it was the apes who grew intelligent. When Wahlberg left the planet, he was actually leaving Earth. When he went through the storm again, he went to his present time, and finds out that Thade eventually got out of the ship and took over the world. That's the only explanation. People will say, why are there two moons then? How the hell do we know what space looked like thousands of years ago? Maybe a meteor shower blew it to smithereens. If you think about it, this explanation makes sense. Burton did the opposite of the original POTA; instead of sending or hero forward, he sent him back through time.

  • July 28, 2001, 6:05 p.m. CST

    All these endings are wrong...

    by Spider99

    Harry, this is the true ending and I mean it... The planet Mark Wahlberg landed on WAS Earth, only thousands of years in the past. The reason why there are human-like apes, is because the OBERON landed on the planet thousands of years before him (because of the storm), messing up the evolutionary cycle. So instead of the humans evolving, it was the apes who grew intelligent. When Wahlberg left the planet, he was actually leaving Earth. When he went through the storm again, he went to his present time, and finds out that Thade eventually got out of the ship and took over the world. That's the only explanation. People will say, why are there two moons then? How the hell do we know what space looked like thousands of years ago? Maybe a meteor shower blew it to smithereens. If you think about it, this explanation makes sense. Burton did the opposite of the original POTA; instead of sending or hero forward, he sent him back through time.

  • July 28, 2001, 6:08 p.m. CST

    Where did the gorillas and horses come from?

    by JUSTICE41

    As far as i could tell the only ape species on the ship were chimps.How did gorillas evolve from a completely different species? This movie was just a plain waste of time and money.The ending took place on a parallel planet obviously. Unless the chimp pilot shows the apes how to fly marky marks downed ship I don't see how the earth could become the planet of the apes. What really got me was how marky marks ship could get from saturn to earth so quick, especially without a space suit or oxygen.

  • July 28, 2001, 6:34 p.m. CST

    POTA-SETS A FRIDAY BOX OFFICE RECORD!

    by JFunky

    Despite all the bad word from reviews and elsewhere (I myself found the film "just ok") Planet of The Apes earned the highest Friday opening in history, and 2nd highest opening day overall (Behind "The Phantom Menace") pulling in a mammoth 25.1 million in its first day of release! With bad word of mouth spreading though, I have a feeling these kind of numbers won't last long.

  • July 28, 2001, 6:48 p.m. CST

    Pierre Boulle

    by johnny the boy

    The ending was in keeping with the source novel. It is not exactly the same. It is, however, similar in tone. So sit on it, you Potsies.

  • July 28, 2001, 7:19 p.m. CST

    Harry likes Tron

    by oscarmayer

    Come on, given Harry's exuberance over Tron going to DVD, we must take this review with more than a grain of salt.

  • July 28, 2001, 7:40 p.m. CST

    Its a cliffhanger,duh

    by TSFaust

    This is the first time Ive ever had to chime in on one of these talk backs,because I just dont understand all the bashing towards the ending of POTA and how "it doesnt make any sense." From reading previous talk back boards I figured they were full of comic book fans,and yet still all this bitching. Why do I bring up comic books? Because the ending of POTA is a cliffhanger,just like comics often end. What is with everyone saying it doesnt make sense? When a comic ends in a cliffhanger(or even a lot of TV shows),whats happening at the very end sometimes doesnt make sense at the moment. Its not supposed to. Its supposed to intrique you to want to buy the next issue,or watch the next episode. Because you know that that is where you will get your explanation. Its obviously the same here. The ending of POTA is a cliffhanger ending,setting up a new chapter. The answers will be revealed there. Or maybe a sequel wont get made,and the answers wont be revealed. But you can bet that was their original intention. As for this ending not making any sense,would you rather have had Walhberg land,see the statue,and then suddenly cut to a 2 minute long montage sequence that explains how Thade got to earth before him and caused this? Of course not. Walhberg's character is our eyes in this movie,we are seeing it through him. Just as he learns what caused the planet of the apes,so too do we learn. And when he lands back on earth and finds the statue and is suddenly surrounded by more apes,he is confused. So we too should be confused. We are as clueless to how this happened as he is,and that is appropriate. I thought for sure most people would see that logic,but I guess most movie audiences really dont want to think too much,they want everything explained out to them at every moment. Well forget that. Im a patient man,I can wait for a sequel to get my explanation. Im looking forward to it. And when that sequel comes out,almost everyone bitching about the ending in this talk back will go see it. And when they get their answers,and no longer can bitch about it not making any sense,they'll find something else to bitch about. Thats just the nature of these boards,which is unfortunate.

  • July 28, 2001, 7:57 p.m. CST

    Julius, where art thou?.....

    by craigm

    I took in the film today and I must say that I was thoroughly entertained. I also find myself at odds with those who think it is junk of a high order. I love the original Planet of the Apes. In fact, I own it as part of my video collection. Even though they didn't plan on making a second when they made the first, I now look back on the first two originals as one large movie. In fact, they can be easily spliced together into one seamless epic. With the remake, instead of looking for it to replace the original - which it certainly does in terms of makeup (Rick Baker already has an Oscar sewn up in this category), I viewed it as standing alongside the original. Whereas with the original two, I thought Rod Serling's screenplay to be a visionary play on the post apocalyptic theme - man, with all his vices, destroys the Earth in a nuclear holocaust leaving the apes (and mutants) in control, this film takes a different approach. I won't give anything away, but in terms of building a "franchise" of sequels, this current version's story has more going for it. Don't get me wrong. I think the first movie (especially), and it's second, are masterpieces of story telling. But the story as they wove it for those two, didn't hold up for the films that followed. This one, I think, has many more logical opportunities for sequels. Unlike others, I loved the story, had no problem with the acting, and even though I did have problems with the "surprise" ending, I liked it even though I thought it should have been done slightly differently. It's easily the best summer action flick released this year. If anyone disagrees, well, to quote General Thade......... "Kill them all!"

  • July 28, 2001, 8:23 p.m. CST

    Mark went BACK in time!

    by kelgryn

    Ok, I have read a bunch of the posts here about the ending of the film, and I think I may have an alternate explanation... Marky Mark went BACK in time when he first entered the time warp. He went back several thousand years, and crash landed on EARTH. This was the time period when humans were just begining to form civilazation, but apes were already slightly more evolved. Therefore the humans became enslaved. Okey dokey...Mark crashes in from the future, and eventually the final battle takes place. Thade is defeated (but not really), and mark hops in his ship again and is time warped. This time he lands in modern day (year 2001 ish), and again he lands on Earth! But now apes are in total control. Why? Because Thade used the technology from the ship, and showed the ape race what they must learn to do in order to maintain control. So what happened to modern day earth as we know it, whit humans in control??? Answer...it never exists, because of the events I just outlined. Kind of cool plot, although very Terminator like. Then again, I could be completely off base, but it makes sense in a twilight zone kind of way. Thoughts?

  • July 28, 2001, 8:24 p.m. CST

    How I would handle the sequel

    by TSFaust

    One of the elements that a lot of people seem to complaining about from the ending is how Thade would have been able to conquer earth all by himself,and where all those intelligent monkeys came from. Well,my question is,how do we know earth was conquered. All we know for sure is DC sure looked like ape territory. So heres how I would handle it(keep in mind I realize Im not an actual screenwriter,and Im not saying I can create a better story than they actually can. Im just trying to show that there are ways to handle this,unlike some people who are crying out how the end makes no sense and cant be salvaged even with a sequel). After the Oberon went looking for Mark and was pulled into the ion storm,you have to figure the air force noticed their ship missing. So it stands to reason that they would send either another ship,or maybe a whole fleet of ships to go looking for it. And they would go to where they now it last was,which would be by the ion storm. How long would it be until they themselves are pulled into the storm and end up on the POTA. Lets say they arrive on the planet about,oh,say a year after Mark took off from the planet in his monkey's pod. Although we saw the beginnings of apes and humans coming together,its unlikely that would be a smooth transition. Theres going to be apes who still follow Thade. Not long after Mark left,those apes led a rebellion against Attar and Ari's band,and freed Thade from his prison cell. For a year now a war has been going on between Thade's group,and the group that now believes in coexistence. But Thade's apes are hopelessly outnumbered,and will lose soon. Then the air force ships land,looking for the Oberon. They find it,but it is now the base camp of Thade's group. This time Thade and his men know exactly what is going on,and Thade see's an oppotunity. Thade and his followers attack the ships crew,and take control of the ship. For arguments sake lets say its a very large ship,and Thade has a very large group of followers. Knowing they will not be able to last very much longer on this planet against the army now led by Attar,Thade forces the air force crew to take his men off the planet,and take them to earth. After going through the ion storm,they actually do make it to earth around the same time the Oberon disappeared and the ship was sent out looking for them. Before landing Thades apes kill the last of the air force crew onboard. When they land they are naturally greeted by a scared and confused humanity. Thade has been forming a plan while heading to earth though,and weaves a story. His story makes his apes out to be the victims of a horrible war going on on their planet. He gives the air force the sad news that the Oberon landed on his planet,but its inhabitants were all killed by the opposing side in the war. He then goes on to tell how the crew of this ship landed on their planet,found out what was going on,and joined their cause,helping them get off the planet. Unfortunately he says they were all either killed or fatally wounded by the evil apes as they did so,and the last one just died before they landed. With no way to prove otherwise,the humans buy Thade's story. Thade and his followers are given refuge in a facility in DC,where they bide their time. Eventually they revolt against the humans who keep them there. As I said,Thade's army should be huge,large enough that its believable that they could overtake a few blocks of DC rather quickly. So why doesnt the US just send in the armed forces to quickly wipe out this ape menace? Simple. Theres bound to be animal rights activists who feel the apes should not be harmed. Especially if their revolt was caused by a human killing one of them(Thade could even kill one of his own and make it look like this is what happened.) With many humans supporting the cause of the apes and saying what they did wasnt right,but in a way understandable,the government bows to the public pressure and forms a treaty with the apes. In essence this treaty gives them DC,which they have already overrun. DC is now an ape zone. No humans may enter,and no apes may leave. Thades men destroy the monuments there and change them to the face of Thade. Just like the monument said,he did "save them." He saved them from an eventual defeat and death back on their own planet,and has won them their own place on earth. Fast forward into the future,and Wahlberg lands there. We heard a voice saying he was entering restricted airspace. This was not just because its DC. That was a human voice,freaking out because they dont want a human entering that area and causing any problems between the apes and the humans. For years the tension between the apes and the human government has been extreme,and the last thing anyone wants is for something to set off another potential ape revolution. But unfortunately thats what it looks like will happen when Wahlberg crashes there. The apes cannot believe the humans would dare try to send someone in like that. The humans deny it,saying they dont even know who "Leo Davidson" is(they wouldnt,would they?). But the apes dont believe them,and they decide to keep Walhberg as a political prisoner,and the ape council debates whether or not they should now break the treaty and once again attack the humans. Meanwhile there are a few apes who know who Walhberg really is. The leader of these few is a descendant of Thade. Just like Thade's family kept the secret of the Oberon over time,Thade passed down the knowledge that one day the one who defeated them on their own planet might return(having figured out the time travel effects of the ion storm,and discovering that Walhberg is not back on earth when he gets there,Thade would probably be smart enough to realize that Walhberg might have got tossed into the future,and might show up later). This descendant of Thade hates Walhberg because of what he did to Thade,and at first wants to kill him. But then instead he decides that he will indeed use Walhberg to create a reason to start a new ape-human war,which is what he wants anyway. Some good apes overhear the plan,and decide that since they like the way things are now,they will try to save Wahlberg and get him out of the city. They can also be helped by some humans who live in the city,descendants of humans who were not able to get out of DC originally. These humans are now either scavengers,or work as slaves for the apes. Some should work willingly for the apes,just so we can have a few human villians too. So there you go,just one way to explain the ending of POTA,and expand on the story for a sequel. And you want to go for a trilogy? How about if at the end Thade's descendant and his followers overtake another ship and head back to their own planet,planning to overthrow the peaceful coeexistance and once again bring about ape rule,this time with the aid of earth weapons. Walhberg,feeling responsible for everything on that planet,gives chase. They could all end up on the planet a few years after Thades men left. This would allow Attar,Ari,and Estella Warren's character to return in the third. Would all this get a little too cheesy and hard to believe at some point. Yes,but that doesnt mean it wouldnt be fun. And these are movies about talking apes,so why try too hard to stay really technical and serious? I doubt this is how a sequel will actually go if one gets made,but its one way they could go. Lets just wait and see.

  • July 28, 2001, 8:27 p.m. CST

    THE DEFINITIVE ENDING....is really lame actually.

    by yog-sothoth

    I have to agree with the muck-mucks out there that the whole time it was planet earth, that the worm-hole fudded-up the digital clocks so we don't know what fuck-all happened. but how did the apes take over the planet? well, if you can believe that apes and humans can live in harmony, then you can believe that they co-jointly re-traced man's illustrious history but at some point: a) humans enslaved the apes and took over history's course (otherwise wouldn't there be a banana out there on the washington memorial?) b) Thade came back to the future and freed them. now the key is the Lincoln symbolism: lincoln freed the slaves. in order for Thade to free the apes, they would have to be enslaved in the first place. Which means they would have to BE THERE in the first place. obviously history was irreperably changed when the Oberon crashed on early planet earth. thus re-beginning human-ape history at that point. (the future of which Marky Mark catches.)It's mind fucking, not because it's so far out there, but because it so fucking riddled with flaws. Like, okay, fine I'll believe that Thade used Cosmo Chimp to teach him to use the Beta pod to follow Mark's trajectory and land before him (since we've seen that the time-logic is reveresed---first arrives last, and vice-versa). but if man and ape progressed in history after the Oberon genesis, why the fudd would they abandon the advanced space technology??? why? unless Thade took it all with him when he left for the future oh so long ago...in a galaxy far, far away from ever being plausible. Thanks, Tim. It's nice to know you care. --AZ

  • July 28, 2001, 8:34 p.m. CST

    Planet Hollywood

    by Pabodie

    What was that all about? Please tell me that there's soemthing left to salvage this shit summer.

  • July 28, 2001, 9:16 p.m. CST

    Leo Lands in the 2200's or there abouts

    by diphead

    My take on the ending is Leo lands a little farther into the future, say 2250 or so. Humans had been engineering their chimps when he left in 2029. Let's say by 2050 they are able to get the apes to talk. It's not implausible that in the next 200 years there would be many groups trying to get equal rights for these now more human-like apes. At first they are oppressed, then the apes are given their freedoms and eventually, because of their superior physique, become the dominant group on the planet. Now that the apes are dominant, they replace the statue of Lincoln with their own icon, their emancipator, Thade. I think the fact that his name is "Thade" is a poor attempt at tying things together.

  • July 28, 2001, 9:45 p.m. CST

    classic line

    by LeatherfaceFreak

  • July 28, 2001, 9:47 p.m. CST

    classic line

    by LeatherfaceFreak

    come on that heston line was sweet "damn them all to hell" some stuff was hokey but it was a good summer movie and yes if it had more time spent on it the movie could be a better one.

  • July 28, 2001, 10:09 p.m. CST

    goddamit people

    by Diabolo42

    what the hell would be the point of the movie if the POTA was some distant far away planet with 2 suns, and no connection to earth? It has to be earth or else the movie is a complete waste of time. This is a REMAKE after all, and just like the original, it was earth all along. Thade using pods or the oberon to travel to earth and lead an ape revolt seems needlessly complex and overwrought. Occam's razor: It was always earth. Simplest explanation. Btw, next time they remake this, they definitely need to make it a musical, a la the Simpsons :)

  • July 28, 2001, 10:13 p.m. CST

    The Ending

    by Popmart

    This is what i honestly think, i haven't read all of the talkbacks so i'm not sure if this has been said or not, but i think it is just a parallel dimesnion completely, from earth and the ape's earth that leo landed at first, one where maybe the monkey's evolved from men, and followed the same course of history.... uh yea, replies are welcome, Umaarm@yahoo.com and oh yea, U2 kicks ass

  • July 28, 2001, 10:22 p.m. CST

    Couldn't resist

    by Goody2shoes

    I didn't want to talk back, but oh well. I thought POTA was ok. It was entertaining and I laughed a couple of times. That being said, the ending SUCKED! I'm still scratching my head. I've read everyone's theories on the ending and some of them were very good, but they all have holes in them. SPOILER!!! It's the fact that it's a statue of Thade that throws me off. I agree with the talkbacker who said it would have been a bit better if it had been some other ape. I guess we'll have to wait for the director's commentary track on the DVD. But enough about that. Is it just me or did the opening credits remind anyone else of Stargate? In fact, as I'm typing this, I'm realizing that the movie reminded of a cross between Congo and Stargate. Why was Attar so quick to change his entire belief? I mean I know he knows he's wrong, but that's quite a shock to the system. He killed poor Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa, kind of his Obi-Wan, for nothing (I was really hoping we was gonna go Mortal Kombat on Attar with those swords). I know I'm going on a mindless rant here, but no one I know has seen it yet, so I have no one to discuss it with. But, a la Columbo, just one more thing. Why does the USAF have such crappy pilots? Leo crashed not once, but twice, and in a spectacularly ship-totaling manner. No wonder they only let the chimps fly. The human pilots apparently suck. From this you probably can't tell that I didn't find it a complete waste of time and money. Though maybe a little bit of intellect.

  • July 28, 2001, 10:25 p.m. CST

    They had to talk

    by Darth Satan

    The orginal never made any sense to me because the humans couldn't speak. Why would they lose the ablity to speak just because the apes are now in control? Burton made an excellent descion in regards to the humans being able to speak. I saw this movie last night, and I really enjoyed the film. Although I will agree, when I saw the humans the first I thing I thought of was Waterworld or Mad Max. To be honest I've been waiting for a remake of this movie for years. I've always thought it was a great story, but it was made way before it's time. The original was a terrible movie, and Charlton Heston is a terrible actor and a big ham. The makeup was horrible and the actors didn't even try to be ape like. I've read many times about that the original movie had a really small budget and to me it shows, and it just doesn't hold up well to todays movies. This remake is better then the first movie in everyway.

  • July 28, 2001, 10:53 p.m. CST

    Wacky Ape End...

    by Sassypants

    The thing about the (media dubbed) "surprise dark twist ending" in Planet of the Apes is that it really makes no sense at all. When Marky Mark starts flying back to Earth, we see his little date/time dial thing flipping back to his day. The very same time period, which, at the beginning of the movie, we saw as a normal place, i.e, his friends are having cookouts and getting married. Furthermore, the apes had a Thade monument, you know, the mean ape from the OTHER planet, from a thousand years in the future...the very same ape that was locked in the spaceship remains and basically left to die. Uh...what?

  • July 28, 2001, 11:12 p.m. CST

    POTA Ending Scoop...

    by ledbird

    Hi folks. Much confusion on the ending for this movie. Even Harry has is a bit off kilter. Here's the real scoop: When Wahlberg leaves the Oberon at the first of the movie, the present year is something like 2022 (close as I can remember). When he leaves the Planet at the end of the movie, the year is around 2500. He obviously wants to return to Earth of 2022 or sooner, but instead the temporal distortion spits him out at somewhere around 2140. Harry mentioned that the Planet of the Apes exists a thousand years in the future, and that Wahlberg returned to Earth mistakenly about a 1000 years after he left, but if you look at the console graphics during the time travel, it clearly (although very briefly) shows the year he leaves, and the year he returns - 2022 and ~2140. He crashed on Earth, and saw the statue of Thade, but also see's many familiar sights - flash cameras, police cars, etc - indicating he is not a 1000 years in the future, but the technology indicates he is still his recogized present time - of around 2022. What must have happened? Like other reviewers pointed out, Thade obviously returned to Earth intent in killing Wahlberg for the liberation of POTA. Thade somehow must have dug up Wahlbergs pod, fixed it up, and made the journey back through time to earth. How could he understand the technology? He had the rest of his life to fix the pod and understand it, then travel back in time to get Wahlberg. Thade would make the decision to travel to Wahlbergs era - 2022 - to make his stand. Thade must have returned, liberated the apes, and then when Wahlberg arrived in 2140, by accident, he finds the entire planet (at least America) had been taken over by apes. And he's probably the only human left, judging by the suprise to everyone. Why no change in technology on earth if it's 2140? Because, as Burton had clearly spelled out earlier, apes have no knack for that - so they must have continued using the same cars, cameras, etc.

  • July 28, 2001, 11:16 p.m. CST

    Stop bitching

    by daedalusai

    As long as a movie is fun to watch, it doesn't need to make sense!!!!!!!!!

  • July 29, 2001, 12:18 a.m. CST

    The ending

    by hktelemacher

    IT'S FUCKING EARTH, ALL ALONG. At least, it had better be, because Thade fishing the pod out of the water, repairing it, learning to pilot it, taking it to Earth, conquering Earth, etc. etc. etc. is lazy and just plain stupid. I thought that is what happened when the movie ended and it left a bad taste in my mouth. Working it over in my head, I came to the conclusion that the big twist was the reverse of the original POTA. Instead of the future, it was the past, and Walhberg has flipped the evolutional scales. He kept saying how everything was his fault and it wouldn't have happened if it weren't for him. It's true. It's an old sci-fi concept that the first humans on earth are actually people from the future who have travelled back in time. Quite a paradox. The ending that Walhberg has totally fucked everything up is better than Thade following him and getting there before him. The fact that when Walhberg left, Thade came to power and instated himself as their god or savior or what have you just seems better. I felt insulted thinking Thade followed using the broken down pod, and it felt oddly familiar because in Escape from the Planet of the Apes that's how Cornelius, Zira and Sal Mineo got to Earth c. 1974 - by repairing and flying one of the crashed spaceships and therefore contributing to the cyclical nature of the series by having their son be the one who tweaks history. In conclusion, I hope they don't make a sequel. I hope they don't make four sequels. And they shouldn't even think of trying without Tim Burton at the helm. I don't think it's as shallow as some, but I caught the From Hell trailer and that was worthwhile. I did miss Roddy McDowell, though. The worst Apes sequel was Beneath the POTA, and after all, that was Roddy-less with some other actor playing Cornelius. Roddy was pretty kick-ass, like in 5 Card Stud and Fright Night, and could have added some class to this show. I also think that Johnny Depp should have re-teamed with Burton for this, either in the Wahlberg role or the Tim Roth role. Tim Roth was outstanding, but Depp could have given it a whole different twist. Depp in the Wahlberg role would have deepened the character, but maybe that's not what they were going for. The overall message in POTA -humans are bad, soulless, reprehensible creatures. It's proven every day in the newspaper. We're just a bunch of smarter, cleanshaven wild monkeys.

  • July 29, 2001, 1:13 a.m. CST

    The ending comes from the original book`

    by guanoria

    I was reading up on my POTA trivia today and found a site that had a few sentences about the original book: Pierre Boulle's La Planete des Singes. It is some french book. But the site said that in the original book Taylor makes it back to Earth and is greeted by 2 gorrilla guards. This is all the info this site had. But it is a very similar ending to the new movie. Does anyone have more info on this book and this ending?

  • July 29, 2001, 2:25 a.m. CST

    It Really DOES rule

    by Turn_N_Burn

    Saw the movie and I thought It was awesome! No compalaints! I thoroughly enjoyed myself and I will see it again. In hindsight, I kind of agree with the fact that the humans were sort unecessary, but then again it wouldn't make sense that the decendants of advanced( 21st century) humans would thoroughly devolved just because they were no longer the dominant species. As far as the ending goes? It's a time travel movie people! Here's my threory: Don't think Star Trek, thing Sliders. Remember that many apes like Attar, and Krull believe they evolved from primates alongside humans and monkeys with apes being dominant. Leo believes differently, and when the ship's records prove him right it crushes all the apes' beliefs (in much the same way as if an alien race came to earth with proof that they brought/dropped/created man would crumble all our religions). It may be the fact that the storm (remember it distorts space AND time, and the Oberon Crew saw their own distress call and logs from the future) is unstable and that Leo would not have been able to get back to the correct "Where" or "When". Instead of arriving where he left, he arrived on earth in a universe where the only diffefence is apes evole into Apes instead of man. This, Ironically, destroys Leo's beliefs the way he destroyed Attar's

  • July 29, 2001, 2:40 a.m. CST

    Pericles screws over humanity

    by IvyMike

    I agree that the only explanation is that sometime after Marky Mark leaves POTA, Thade travels back to Earth and takes over. (For example, Thade came back to 1980 with the superior 2039 technology and used his brilliant military mind to easily stage a coup and overthrow the government. Or maybe when they get back in time, they just use the computer's database of stock quotes to get a huge bankroll and stage a peaceful economic takeover instead.) The apes don't build the Lincoln memorial, they just change the head. Of course, this all requires Thade to esacpe his imprisonment on the station, and who's the only former station crewmember still on POTA with a handprint which can open it up? Pericles, who's clearly a better pilot that Marky Mark ever was. Just to make it clear: Pericles the monkey frees Thade using his handprint, teaches him how to fly a pod back and forth from POTA to Earth, and betrays Earth by revealing all our classified military secrets. (The humans never realized that Pericles could read and were quite careless about leaving top secret documents lying about where he could memorize them.) In return for his actions, Thade lets him have mad monkey sex with his human sex slave, Estella Warren. Thumbs up, Pericles!

  • July 29, 2001, 6:10 a.m. CST

    The biggestdisappointment of the year, and of Tim Burton's saggi

    by Rollo Tomassi

    Tim Burton is a designer, not a director. His movies are all style and no substance, and he seems to be getting less mature with age. "POTA" is worth seeing for the ape effects, but overall you're better off seeing "A.I.", "Shrek" or even "Jurassic Park III", even if you've already seen them. In fact, "Tomb Raider" is at least as good as "Apes".

  • July 29, 2001, 6:21 a.m. CST

    The condition continues...

    by ewem

    I agree with Harry on one thing here that sums up the entire problem. THis movie was released too soon. Another six months to a year of work on this could have really made it something special. Instead...we have the continuing decline in movies. The past five years or so things overall seem to be just...getting worse. This year for movies so far has been an utter disgrace. This summer has been a joke! The best movie of this year thus far was The Score with DeNiro. That thing actually has some thought and some heart behind it. That's the trend I have been seeing lately, whether the film is a CGI jerk off like TPM of Final Fantasy or if it's Pearl Harbor. None of these movies have souls anymore. I want to know: Can anyone out there tell a good story anymore? Can anyone out there write characters that seem real? We really need to get back to basics on some fronts! BTW...this movie doesn't light a candle to the originals as is.

  • July 29, 2001, 7:03 a.m. CST

    What the ending really means, etc...

    by dimanes

    It is not about time travel. It is not about alternate universes, or Thade arriving in 1960 and somehow taking over the world. IMHO, it is about Burton and the rest of the film's makers getting sick of fanboys - myself included - going on about how great the ending to the original is, how nothing can equal the shock value, etc. So, instead of a dark comment on human violence and self-destruction, we get a one liner (hey, look its "Ape" Lincoln...ha ha ha, I get it). As to the rest of the film, yes the make-up looks great. Give me 100 million plus and I can make a movie that has good special effects. FOr those who liked the acting, what movie were you watching? Wahlberg is a good actor, but he seemed half asleep in this film. The rest of the characers are either one note (Thade, Ari) or no note (barbarian chick, aka Estella Warren. Hey, where did she get all the lipstick on Ape World? Are the humans visited by Mary Kay Apes?). The plot was serviceable, but, unlike the original film, the story had nothing going for it beyond "special effects summer blockbuster template A, the quest for freedom". The plot incosistencies are glaring - horses? The guns that in one scene vaporise trees in the another barely scratch primative armor? The ship being operational after 1000 years? I can suspend disbelief, but come on, this is all a bit much. Ultimately, it seems obvious that Burton and Co. had no idea what to do with this film and hoped that by virtue of set design and makeup they could immerse enough people in the imagry to ignore the ho-hum acting and sloppy plotting. I'm going to break out my Ape DVDs now and enjoy some scifi the way it should be done.

  • July 29, 2001, 8:22 a.m. CST

    The ending

    by RedKrypt

    I left the theater very confused after seeing POTA last night. I had to come read these message boards to make some sense of the ending. Luckily I think I found it, and it all makes sense now. The planet was indeed earth thru the entire movie. That makes sense...holds true in many ways to the original film...and makes for a much better story, after I had time to think about it. The Oberon went thru the storm and crashed landed on earth many thousands of years into the past...let's say 5000 BC or something. The genetically engineered apes thru off the natural evolution of our planet, revolting against humans, and eventually ruling our planet as the domimant species. Marky Mark crashed on earth the 1st time still in the past, but a few thousand years after the Oberon. Let's say 200 AD. Humans weren't extinct at that time. We watch the entire movie thinking they are on a different planet, but this is indeed earth. Any theory about apes revolting on earth separately, or Thade hopping in a ship flying to earth taking over the planet is just silly. This was earth thru the entire movie! Stands to reason that Burton would stick to the original concept of the first film. Anyway, the events on the planet unfold, and Mark leaves back thru the storm to once again travel in time back to earth. He's still in the past, but 20th century earth. He never makes it back to his time. But obviously the apes continued to rule the planet, with Thade leading the way. The few days or week that Mark was on earth in 200 AD wasn't enough to change the belief system and natural order of the planet. Thade got out of that room, and used his influence to hide the truth so the apes could continue to rule earth. Mark finally lands in 20th century earth where humans are most likely extinct now. That's what happened. Makes the most sense in every way. You just need to follow the chronology of events. But that chronology raises some very interesting points that I'll make in my next post...

  • July 29, 2001, 8:41 a.m. CST

    The Ending Part II

    by RedKrypt

    The ending of the story, if you accept that concept that Mark was on earth the entire time..introduces a huge time paradox. The Oberon disaster lands the ship thousands of years into Earth's past, the genetically engineered apes take over the planet..and human evolution is changed forever. Our past is changed. Earth's past is changed. Marky Mark's FUTURE is changed...the APES FUTURE is changed. If the apes ruled the earth...and humans are seemingly extinct in the 20th century after you see Mark land their again...then the Oberon NEVER EXISTED. There were no humans in the future to build the Oberon..therefore no Oberon...no Mark on the Oberon...and NO APES on the Oberon in the future. Therefore, theres a paradox that the apes from the future conquering earth in the past...change the future...so they HAVE NO PAST. The APE ancestors that first landed with the Oberon NEVER EXISTED..they never crashed landed on earth. Mark NEVER EXISTED. How's that for a twist? Time travel storylines are always convoluted. But this has to be the true meaning of the ending. Although the time paradox introduces many more questions, it makes more sense than Harry's explanation...which sadly was one of the worse explanations that I read...or any theory that this was a distant world and the apes eventually left the planet to travel to earth to conquer it. THIS WAS EARTH!!

  • July 29, 2001, 8:55 a.m. CST

    ending from planet zero

    by XLmonster

    Maybe I was still loading my pistol in order to kill myself, but when Marky Mark is headed back to Earth -- didn't his nifty "chrono-dial" state he was heading back in time to the year 2000 something-or-other? If that's so, then Harry's possible explanation makes less sense than the movie. But I guess, Major Matt Marky Mark could have gone through one of those nasty dimensional time warps where in another dimension apes in the 21st century drive police cars and Jet Li is fighting himself. See Sexy Beast. See Made. But do not waste your time with this crap. NEXT...

  • July 29, 2001, 9:04 a.m. CST

    APES Rocked...you Haters Suck!

    by echo31

    I've been an Apes Fan for Decade...I have seen all the movies, Animated series, Live series, read the comics and the superb Marvel Magazine series from the 70's. One of the great things about these different takes on Apes is that they envisioned different periods in Ape/Human history! I see this new Apes Movie not as a remake, not as a re-visioning, but as a new sequel with a different take. 1.) Those who bitch about characterization (or lack there of) never saw the original...other than Taylor, Zera , and Cornelius (maybe Zaius) there are literally no other characters of any relevance...they couldn't afford complete make-up to HAVE more characters. This new film has an abundance of interesting characters developed accordingly based on there importance. 2.)The Last time YOU traveled through a Time/Space anomaly are you ABSOLUTELY sure that the Chronometer was 100% accurate...I mean you guys all seem to be experts on all Sci-Fi Concepts. IT'S Clear that the Cronometer is a Red Herring (plot device) to throw us off [especially you limited minded Humans] the obvious that he landed on an ancient Earth. Yes we saw two moons (another red herring), but modern scientists today have already theorized that Earth may once have had a second moon that may have been hit by a large meteor and broken it up with pieces sent to the Moon, the Earth and the the rest of the Solar system. So, if this was old earth it would explain the Horses and the Apes disdain for monkeys who were "only one step above humans" because they were the original inhabitants. 3.) I thought the explanation for the inception of the Apes (never really explained in the original---left to our imaginations) was fascinating and unexpected...for those of you slow Humans who didn't Get it...The Apes on the Oberon were genetically enhanced...when the Oberon traveled through the Anomally and crached on Ancient Earth several thousand years before the two pods that went through before them the scientists and genetically enhanced primates had to struggle for survival on this planet. The genetically enhanced primates (Chimps, Orangatans, and Gorillas [which we didn't happen to see, but were apparantly in a differen't wing] evolved at an exponentially advanced rate due to our genetic tampering. The Oberon crew over thousands of years deteriorated in social standing thus letting the primate gang to develop to the ruling class as we saw them at this point in their history. 4.) THE ENDING....Now that I've established for you the SCI-FI validity of the film up to this point we can discuss the much maligned and misunderstood ending. When Leo travels back through the uncharted anomally (thats probably the most idiotic event in the movie---I mean what makes him think that its a perfect two wat door---duh!). His chronometer travels backward (again, red herring),but he apparantly exits sometime in the far future of the events we just saw in the film...remember, we don't know how fast his pod travels, or how long he travels from the anomally to earth (Compression of time...it would be boring if te journey took him 5 hours and it was filmed in real time---wouldn't it). Now its already been established that Leo doesn't land very well, so he having No control over the exact landing spot magically gives the storyteller the ability to land him where he wants! Now Leo's communicator may not have been working, or audio only may have been working, so again the Storyteller can keep us in suspense until the surprise ending. Again, since we have now established that Leo has traveled into the future of the events in the rest of the film. It can be assumed that leaving Thade alive in that past was a mistake...He or his descendant eventually wiped out or completley enslaved the Humans and the Ape culture/ infrastructure developed in a similar path to what we know. Now that may have been influenced by documents on the Oberon or it could be a Statement that All cultures follow similar paths in there development. Either Way... remember this is SCIENCE FICTION.. We are supposed to use our imagination, our creativity an sit back and escape into this Fictional world!!! You people, who find that the only way you can enjoy something is by tearin it apart, and only look at something at face value without looking beyond the surface....will be the Ruination of our way of life...you make me sick!!!!! Was Apes perfect? NO! Were there some easily exploitable Holes? YES! Was it an enjoyable, bit of escapist, Sci-Fi, Entertainment? ABSOLUTELY! Man, I sometimes think you people would have ripped apart Citizen Kane, Gone with the Wind, Wizard of OZ, etc. when they first came out If there was an internet Talkback when they came Out. GET A LIFE..... And TRY to enjoy it! I'm done venting!

  • July 29, 2001, 9:26 a.m. CST

    APEraham Lincoln

    by fritzjames

    When I saw the movie in the theater yesterday I thought that the statue would have been named APEraham Lincoln.

  • July 29, 2001, 9:37 a.m. CST

    damn some of you are dumb!

    by samurai-ric

  • July 29, 2001, 9:39 a.m. CST

    THE PLANET WAS NOT EARTH!! So there goes most of your ending the

    by samurai-ric

  • July 29, 2001, 9:43 a.m. CST

    THE PLANET WAS NOT EARTH!! So there goes most of your ending the

    by samurai-ric

    if any of you paid attention to the visuals in the movie better, you would realize that the damn planet had TWO moons. now i don't know about you geeks, but I sure as hell know that the earth has only one moon. So that means it was an entirely different planet. not to mention that at the end he had to set a course all the way to earth from saturn to get back there. which implies he was far away from earth when he first went through the portal thingie. have to come up with a new theory now.

  • July 29, 2001, 9:49 a.m. CST

    Planet review

    by neilyoung

    Terrific. Great points about ending, roth, and Burton. Especially Baker. Disagree about Wahlberg: just not a leading man for this kind of movie: a kid. For a goof: you might want to check Dead Critics society on atom.

  • July 29, 2001, 10:22 a.m. CST

    A flaming commie's opinion

    by tbrosz

    http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/29/opinion/29DOWD.html***At least she didn't give away the ending!

  • July 29, 2001, 10:24 a.m. CST

    Did a monkey write this script?

    by fredsaid

    I have never replied to a review, but I hope someone reads this, so I won't feel like Charlton Heston, out of place and out of time like in the original. The movie was silly on so many levels, that you forget the great makeup and production design of the film. It makes no sense that in the future we are using monkeys (i'm sorry apes) as space probes when we can send computer-driven probes today. Who thought that it was cute to have Michael Clarke Duncan say "take your stinking paws off me you damn dirty human!" Cheezball. Those same screenwriters or whoever must have thought it was cute to have an ape say "can't we all just get along?" If I hear that in any form in any movie again, I will zap out like Thade. And having Charlton Heston saying "damnit all to hell" is not a clever knod to the original. Charlton Heston in a ape suit is a clever knod to the original. Ok the end...please someone answer this. If it was Earth, why was there a monument to General Thade? My first theory was that he never left the planet, he only went through the idiotic timeslip/wormhole and came back to this planet 1,000 years later. He never got to Earth. I base this on the speech Helena Bonham Carter gave to Mark Wahlberg before he left. But then I noticed the numbers went backward on his space dingy, so that made no sense. The end did make a nod to the book, which I suggest all moviegoers read just to get a sense of how wrong this movie is. To all budding screenwriters, if you write story, keep it simple. I should not blame the screenwriters or Tim Burton completely, because this has "junior studio execs screwed up the story" written all over it. I'm not trying to compare the original with this, but this "reinvention" seems like a lame spoof, cuz I ain't laughing. Guess what kids? In 30 years or so the studios will remake "Star Wars", or "Jaws", or some other big blockbuster from the 70's. But by then this will not be a planet ruled by apes, but by Cats and Dogs.

  • July 29, 2001, 10:29 a.m. CST

    Umm ok

    by Randall Flagg

    Haven't read through the talkbacks yet so dont know if anyone ha brought this up already, but Harry? If it was the future of Earth why would they have a statue of General Thade? It's more likely that it was the future of the planet of the apes itself, with some very convenient similarities to Earth. And the reason they named it earth is because that is where the spaceman said he came from originally, and when he left they had started to revere him. Granted, there was only one moon in this future, but I think having a General Thade on each planet is a little TOO convenient; maybe the second moon got caught in another planet's gravity somewhere along the wy. ::shrug::

  • July 29, 2001, 11:26 a.m. CST

    Anyone else think the female apes look like they have the same '

    by the slinger

  • July 29, 2001, 12:03 p.m. CST

    NEW ENDING THEORY

    by coop

    After having a night to think it over, here's my theory about the ending. With time travel being a important plot point, all bets are off. The monument we see of Thade we see at the end of the film is not necessarily the same Thade. Imagine what happened back on the other planet. Eventually Thade gets out of the ship and lives his live out having hatred for the humans who now infest his world. He passes down this hatred to his children and as many in society also continue to hate the humans, a new militant regime grows in power. Much like the Nazis and the Jews, this new regime plans to wipe out all humans blaming them for all of society's ills. With the technology of the oberon studied over the years, this world becomes very advanced before it's time and within a generation or two, the apes (having finally wiped out most of humans on the planet decide to take their new technology and travel to earth to destroy the humans for good. When they leave the planet with a great army headed for earth, they run into the time vortex thing and end up in earth's recent past (early 1900s) and easily take over the planet with their advanced technology and the son or grandson of Thade as General. Much of Washington's monuments are already in place and the apes make a few changes. When Mark's character lands back on earth, the apes have been in control for several decades which is long enough to rule the planet but not long enough to change the look of all of the architechture.

  • July 29, 2001, 12:21 p.m. CST

    stinkin' ape

    by dengreg31

    I'm sorry Harry, you are being too kind..this is not a good movie. It's not horrible either, its just boring. Which is the worst kind of film. And the ending is just stupid. It's not clever or witty or thoughtful, just stupid.

  • July 29, 2001, 12:21 p.m. CST

    Planet Of The Apes (as seen originally at www.bolt.com)

    by WolfManCampbell

    Planet of The Apes Director: Tim Burton Starring: Mark Wahlberg, Estella Warren, Tim Roth, Helena Bonham-Carter, Michael Clarke Duncan, Cary Hiroyuki Tagawa, Kris Kristofferson Tim Burton's latest release is nothing but mediocre. Don't get me wrong, Mr. Burton is one of my favorites. But it seems like he went into a studio and said, "Hey, I'm bored. Got a movie I can direct?" Mark Wahlberg stars as US Air Force Captain Leo Davidson, who crash lands after passing through a solar storm. Much like the classic 1968 epic starring Charlton Heston (who makes a brief appearance in Burton's "re-imagining"), he finds that the apes can speak, freaks out, and gets hit a lot. In the end, we all know what happens. The direction was wonderful, but I would have burned the script if I were a movie executive. Or I'd shoot myself at the premiere. But Mr. Burton did his best with an all-star cast in an attempt to make a script, aka dogshit, into a decent movie that we'll want to buy on DVD. Or the $3 bin at Blockbuster. Wayne Campbell

  • July 29, 2001, 12:40 p.m. CST

    Reverse-engineered ending theory

    by McBai-Gui

    THIS IS A DISCUSSION OF THE ENDING, SO SPOILERS AHOY... Okay, so far there appear to be two camps on the ending issue (three if you count those who can't even try to understand it, or don't care). The key distinction between the two is that one believes the planet was always Earth and the other thinks it was some other planet with two-moons or suns or something. If there were two different planets, the argument is that Thade escaped, figured out how to rebuild all that broken-down, millenia-old technology from the Oberon (even that he "learned how to fly the pods from Pericles..."), then led an expedition back to our planet Earth sometime in the early 20th C. or thereabouts and took over the world, wiping out humans. Alternatively, he could have waited for a rescue mission sent to look for Davidson, taken over that ship, flown it back to Earth, and then taken over that way. I also read one post that hypothesized that the Apes only control Washington D.C., and the rest of the world is still populated by humans. All of these theories are simply ridiculous. Granted, any theory is going to have some problems given how Twilight Zone-esque the ending was, but please, think about what you're saying. If one ship full of non-humans or aliens or whatever using human technology from no more than 100 years in the future landed on Earth at any point in the 20th C., they would not be able to take over the entire planet. It's a question of manpower. If there are billions of humans and maybe even a couple thousand apes came, you're telling me they could conquer and wipe out the entire human race with a couple ray-guns? Or that the humans would let the apes just take over one city, our capital? No. The best theory by far is that Leo was on Earth the whole time, in the distant past. The Oberon landed on Earth a couple thousand years before he did, at a time when homo sapiens were just beginning to evolve. The genetically-enhanced primates on the Oberon killed the entire crew, and then started living, procreating, and evolving on Earth, which was co-inhabited by these proto-humans. But because of the gene splicing/tampering with the hand of God/etc., they evolved at a much faster rate, allowing them to subjugate the humans over the course of the next thousand or so years. (I'll also mention that everyone on the POTA spoke English because that was the language the original Oberon primates were taught to understand, and the Apes were the ruling class, so humans had to learn it as well. It's a stretch, but it's better than nothing.) So instead of the history we know and love of humans evolving to rule the world, there's this ancient Ape society that never should have happened. Already, our time-line is screwed up. This of course raises the time-travel paradox (the Oberon thus never should have existed, etc.) but you have to just deal with that. Okay, so apes rule the world, but the descendants of the original leader know the truth about humans previously being in charge. (Side note: were Heston and Roth's characters descended from the original ape who led the Oberon apes against the humans? That female crew member mentioned the ape leader's name, but I don't remember.) Leo Davidson shows up, and has a little adventure which leads Thade to discover the Oberon wreckage. Davidson appears to lead a successful human revolt, but after he leaves, Thade again rises to power and leads a campaign to exterminate all humans from the POTA. Thus, when Leo tries to go back to Earth, he is unknowingly travelling to the same planet thousands of years after the events of Thade, in what should be Leo's present (think Back to the Future II, when Marty goes back but Biff is now rich, powerful, and his stepdad). Some people say that the POTA can't be Earth because POTA had two moons, and the terrain was all different or something. Well, I honestly didn't catch the moons thing, but I believe both that and the chronometer were intentionally misleading. We're supposed to be thinking POTA isn't Earth, and then, "Oh my god/I was wrong/It was Earth/All along/... I love you, Dr. Zaius." Plus, that's how POTA has horses. It's Earth, people. Okay, but here's the big problem: if our entire history has been supplanted by an ape-dominated one, why does the National Mall look exactly the same? Because the entire Ape society built itself as a reverse-engineered version of ours. Thade's father told him that the human inventiveness was superior to that of the apes. The Oberon had a complete history of our entire civilization stored in its computers (why else would they have included that in the beginning of the film?). Thade leads this campaign to wipe out the humans, and then essentially has this "how to build a technologically advanced society" paint-by-numbers in the form of our entire historial record. (The historical record in POTA is the sports almanac in BTTF II.) Over time, this information gets passed down through the Ape leadership, and the Apes reverse-engineer and acquire increasingly advanced human technology from a future that now does not exist. Because they're less inventive than humans, they advance at essentially the same pace it took humans to invent it in the first place, even with the records. So when Leo steps out of his pod in what should be his present day (or maybe it was 2001, 'cause those cars looked contemporary-- whatever, it doesn't matter) everything looks like it was built by the humans because the entire ape society just copied us. And at some point before he died, to be particularly spiteful and arrogant of human culture and history, Thade said, "Yeah, build me a shrine just like that Lincoln guy shown in the record." There you have it. In my opinion, this has the least loose ends or entirely unbelievable projections of any theory. And now that I'm happy with that theory, I like the movie a bit more. Still a disappointment, though.

  • July 29, 2001, 12:42 p.m. CST

    not earth

    by Big Papa

    Everyone keeps saying that it really was earth afterall, not an alien planet. But no, it's not. And I'll tell you why. Look at the moon! The Planet of the Apes has two moons, while Earth only has one. So, no, it couldn't possibly be earth....in the past OR in the future. I thought this movie was ok. Not great, but ok. Except for the ending.... Why did Burton have to put Thade's name on the Lincoln Memorial? That made no sense.

  • July 29, 2001, 12:48 p.m. CST

    It wasn't earth, moon off saturn

    by Speaker Wiggin

    didn't you notice, that's where they were, they were training the monkeys to go down to an inhabital moon off of saturn (at least that's what the planet looked like) As for the ending, i think if thade still had supporters and teh monkey (the second comming?) that they could find some way of getting him out, i mean......how hard do you think it would be to completely give up your religion if you find out you've been wrong you're entire life? and there was still a pod under the lake.......all they had to do was go to the senate w/ a story of how dangerous the humans are and use an electrical storm to go back to the 20th centure some time and take over our stuff :-) ME

  • July 29, 2001, 1:47 p.m. CST

    A "Sliders" type of ending

    by badmovifan

    I half expected to see Jerry O'Connell and his crew from the "Sliders" tv show at the end of POTA. This movie is perfect fodder for Jay Sherman to rip apart on "The Critic".... Can't wait to see what Shockwave's cartoon film reviewer has to say about this one.

  • July 29, 2001, 2:19 p.m. CST

    Typical Hollywood tripe

    by STUCARIUS

    I just got back from PotA and what a waste of talent. Once again the talent of so many people has been wasted by Hollywood. How we can have a movie industry that spends billions on productions with such worthless writing? This movie has more holes than a collander. From begining to end the plot and dialogue sink far below even day time Soap Operas. As for continuity it has little to none. Are there not people who are paid to watch for these things before they are released? They should be fired. The make-up(fantastic), sets and the actors great job of becoming apes was worth the price. The shame is that this could have been a great movie with many sequels and instead will barely cover production and post production cost. Harry must have left before the end of the movie. He definately did not see the ending I did. What a sad attempt to creat a new franchise this ending was. It was as if they did not even watch their own movie before writing and filming this "post production" ending. If this ending were a baby it would not even have the strength to role over. As for Tim Burton...PLEASE STOP GIVING HIM GREAT MOVIES TO RUIN!!! The guy is a joke. He had one great movie. After that zilch. He has become Ed Wood with money. Sorry Ed, you were not that bad.

  • July 29, 2001, 2:34 p.m. CST

    Marky Mark and the Monkey Bunch reunion

    by dexter cornell

    Harry, you say it's shit, but there were some nice aromas that you should still pay to see. And while you feel that the ending is Burtonized, I have to tell you that is studio shock value all the way. There was no real logic whatsoever put into that ending. They just realized that they couldn't have the statue of Liberty ending this time (though that crashed spaceship looked damn similar) and didn't want to disappoint the audience that wanted another 'HOLY SHIT' ending. I'm sorry, but that ending was total ape-poo. The movie was great until Marky Mark reunited with the Monkey Bunch at the end. What da ferk was that about? I read all of you rocket scientists and theorists giving 'your' version of what it means, but not one of you has made sense or made a good argument. I can suspend belief for days, but I still do have logic incorporated into my human soul and it made absolutely no sense. I liked the idea of it, and if they would've put the appropriate pieces in the film to lead to it or that you could reflect on, it would've worked great, but this they did not do. They went for the lowest common denominator, the uneducated movie goer who will pay tons on opening weekend, and don't have the intellect to dismiss their trite attempt at the upsurd. Come to think of it, that ending was MADE for talking monkeys.

  • July 29, 2001, 3:07 p.m. CST

    Has anyone read the book?

    by Alternity_Orange

    The ending was about the only thing interesting in the movie. Burton just stuck with the book. In the original book, the planet of the apes was not Earth. Ulysses (changed to Taylor for the movie) manages to escape back to his ship at the end and return to Earth. Once there he finds all the architecture to be unchanged despite the passing of many centuries. He lands at the Eiffel Tower only to be approached by ape policemen. The spinning chronometer aside, there's no reason the Earth Leo landed at in the end of the movie couldn't have been the far future. Boulle explained that the apes merely mimicked human acheivements, they had none of their own. The apes could have changed the Lincoln memorial and still be using current era technology. As to the rest of the movie ehhh... Looked good but Hollywood really has to learn to concentrate more on stories and not just throw hundreds of millions into the visuals. By stripping away all the social commentary and human dichotomy of the original movie you lose what made it a classic in the first place.

  • July 29, 2001, 3:09 p.m. CST

    Other stuff I found illogical

    by vudufixit

    1. Why didn't Leo look more carefully around the Oberon for a weapon? 2. Why are there guns aboard these pods anyway? In the year 2029, how far could we have spread ourselves among the planets that we think we'd have to pack heat in a short-range exploratory/utility pod? 3. On a positive note, I was a bit concerned that the pods, which appear to be only for deep-space use, not transatmospheric, but the landing armatures made me think that this was smart design -the pods are probably a standard design used throughout the Solar System. 4. Why is a station orbiting Saturn named after a moon of Uranus, Saturn's nearest neighbor? I thought that was pretty bizarre. 5. I disagree that the transmissions could be the source of knowledge for a Thade scheming to take over Earth. I think they passed by in too fleeting and compressed manner to be recorded. In addition, it seems that the ships log was in pretty bad shape anyway, and didn't contain much information. 6. I also can't see how the Oberon could have so many systems still functioning. And how inconsistent - a solid state memory system like the ship's log would be mostly erased, while retracting doors, fuel cells and thruster systems work fairly well? 7. If the station is nuclear powered with cells that are supposed to "last forever" why did one thrust blast deplete all of the cells which had just checked out at 100% functionality"? Why didn't that blast kill those apes, instead of merely stunning them? They should have been either roasted, or acutely poisoned if the fuel was hypergolic.

  • July 29, 2001, 3:24 p.m. CST

    When will the Nipples of Mother Hype run dry?

    by JAGUART

    Good Bless Peter Jackson and The Lord of the Rings. Can he pull off the biggest film coup of the new millenium? It is said that Alexander the Great, at age 25, wept because "There were no more worlds to conquer". Are there no more films worth seeing? James Cameron and company would have kicked Ape Ass. To paraphrase one of the cinema's most notorious villans, Age 8; "Mom, you said that the biggest problem in the universe is no one helps each other." Apparently Planet of the Apes has shown that that this theme is true across all time dimensions, parallel universes, and species, both mutant and non-mutant. I propose that we pull a publicity stunt by putting an Ape Head on a National Monument or religious idol. Who's with me?

  • July 29, 2001, 3:50 p.m. CST

    Tired Of

    by Simi Valley Tom

    I'm tired of people saying, Get a life, It's only a movie, You don't get it. Summer "popcorn" movies can be among the most entertaining, powerful and profound movies of our time, soething I wish the Academy Awards would realize. As for APES, it was a big disappointment. Unlike the original, the ending was confusing, stupid, somewhat predictable, and badly executed. The climax was also a bit predictable, and relied on a kind of silly Deus Ex Machina. Finally, Tim Roth was way over the top, Mark Wahlberg, who had a poorly written character, was, nevertheless, lackluster, and the romantic subplot between Ari and Leo was annoying, and made even more ridiculous by the confusing ape-human hybrid makeup on Ari. JURASSIC PARK III was a lot more fun, as is the upcoming RUSH HOUR 2 and THE PRINCESS DIARIES.

  • July 29, 2001, 4:21 p.m. CST

    It's a madhouse.

    by yenohdum

    It really is a madhouse when anyone can write that Burton's remake of the Planet of the Apes is anything but trash. Not only does it fail the tradition of the series miserably, but it's just a horrible film - period. The script is an embarrassment. As for the make up, it's as laughable as EVERYONE first said it was when those initial "test" shots were realeased. Not long after Rick Baker's apes appear on screen, does the the fatal flaw in the make up become painfully clear. Besides looking like rejects from the Island of Dr. Moreau, these apes CAN'T TALK RIGHT. You can't understand a damned thing they are saying. Yeah, Ricky, their lips move, but you've turned them into mush-mouths. John Chambers, where are you? Again, audiences are force fed mediocrity. Let's hope this thing will die, and the series will continue with an all new chapter, the way it should have in the first place. Arthur Jacobs, they betrayed you, man. RIP

  • The year - 1968, we get Charleton Heston. Now, the year 2001 and we get some guy named Marky Mark. How in the hell do I get out of this sick and twisted parallel universe of shitty sequels, remakes and "reimagines"? Ben Affleck was the lead role in Pearl Harbor for chrissake. It's a Mad House, A MAD HOUSSSSSSE!

  • July 29, 2001, 4:29 p.m. CST

    I think Not...

    by prajadhipok

    *SPOILERS* If Marky Mark didnt go back far enough to his time in the end... then why would there be a statue dedicated to THADE? can it be Thade will live for another couple of hundred years? Pish Posh that movie was okay up until that ridiculous ending.

  • July 29, 2001, 4:50 p.m. CST

    Continuity problem or Plot device for the sequel??

    by Deek

    Has anyone else noticed that, at the end of the movie, the chimp lands on POTA in Pod D......the wrong pod??? The chimp took off from the Oberon in Pod A.....Leo took off in Pod D. Therefore, Pod D should be at the bottom of the swamp.....and Pod A should have been the one that the chimp landed in. However twice in the movie, they show the second pod as Pod D....I don't recall the exact placement of the first instance, but the second instance was during the flight back to Earth. Did anyone else notice this??? Could this have been an intentional 'mistake' that could be used in the sequel to explain the ending??

  • July 29, 2001, 4:53 p.m. CST

    How the Sequel starts....

    by bents

    Well lets face it there will be a sequel. The movie rocked IMHO. I ran thru 1/3 of the replies and no one seems to be have mentioned it.... In the movie.....When Marky goes after the Ape, the pod gets buffeted inside the storm and then the second pod appears and then disappears............so......the question now has to be asked.... Who is in the pod? 1. Marky going back to Earth? 2 The monkey? 3. Thade going to Earth after escaping from Planet, after being freed from his Glass Prision and either unearthing Marky's first pod or finding one unscathed in the debris of the Oberon? The Sequel will probably cover this, cause Fox aint' this stupid. This was planned just watch. This was so much better than the Sam Hamm script. :))

  • July 29, 2001, 4:57 p.m. CST

    THE PERFECT ENDING(I BEG YOU TO READ)

    by Nitz

    It seems, from about the 50 or so Talkbacks I have read, and by the way I love you guys, no one has mentioned this. I'm not going to give you a theory on the ending. The ending is totally fucked. But, I think, I could be, however, wrong, I think I have a better ending. I thought the APES afraid of water meant something. I thought it was going to be like significant. So, at the end, when you see the light in the sky, instead of that being a spaceship, why not have that a storm cloud. And every one is bewildered. And, then, cut to a shot of a rain drop hitting the ground. APES go ape shit(pun intended), and start running from the humans. Even Thade, his intstincts would have gotten the best of him. All the APES run away, the humans, of course, taking advantage of them, chases them, and force them into submission. They chase the APEs to the river. Leo, Wahlberg's character, strikes up a deal with the APEs. He catches the apes when they are vunerable. Apes and Humans live together in piece. Cut to Thade and Leo staring each other down, Thade refusing to make good at the promise. Thade running towards Wahlberg, Wahlberg kills him. Of course, this is a rough draft, but it sure beats that time travel shit. At least my ending isn't confusing.

  • July 29, 2001, 5:01 p.m. CST

    I hate every ape I see from chimpan-A to chimpan-Z

    by Lt. Torello

    Yep, the Simpsons did this better. Troy McClure (RIP) singing, "You've finally made a monkey out of me... I LOVE YOU, DR. ZEUS!!" And Harry, you still got some of Tim's gis in your beard -- need a napkin?

  • July 29, 2001, 5:09 p.m. CST

    The Ending

    by Doug Exeter

    Okay, you might think that I'm lame, but I have a question. I saw the film on Friday, and at the end when Marky-Mark is off the planet and hits the time warp thing, the his computer reads that he's going BACK in time, and the date is going backwards. Yet when he lands, it is clearly the future. How does that work? Did I miss something? Perhaps it was a dimensional thing, like he skipped dimensions (my original thought after seeing the movie). I agree with Harry that this is the least of Tim Burton's work.

  • July 29, 2001, 5:34 p.m. CST

    Does ANYTHING please this sour bunch around here?

    by glen

    All the complaining around AICN this summer about movie after movie....and now Burton's latest opens to more carping...Jessh, Harry et al, for a group of folks that claim to love the movies, you all sure bitch n' moan enough. I know I'm in the minority around here, but I've really enjoyed some of this summer's entries. I loved the inventive flash of 'Moulin Rouge', the wonderful artistry of 'Atlantis', the thought-provoking AI and the sweet confection 'Shrek'...and now the last big gun of the summer is here with Burton's take on "Planet of the Apes" and I really like it too. I dunno...I guess I go in to see these ready to accept what's THERE on the screen instead of what I would've done or lamenting "missed opportunites". Burton's "Apes" is a terrific take on a saga everyone is familiar with. The production design, Baker's excellent work and some wonderful performances come together to from a truly different vision. Imagine...apes that act like....APES! I also liked the way the script kind of took parts of all five of the earlier films and just whipped it all together and it actually worked....and using the Boulle-inspired ending was really the only way out...plus the ending does what great endings do...it gets people talking about it! The film is rife with wonderful details only a good artist like Burton and his team would think to add...details that aren't necessarily in the script but add some more food for thought. Stuff like the "brand" looking like an outline of the ship...the urn in Thade's father's room looking like a decending fireball... there's lots more. Some great character moments like Carter tearfully reciting her "Someday they'll tell a story.." speech...the actor playing Krull, Ari's "ape-servent" was the best, always adding gravity to every scene he was in. And as for a couple of things Harry was complaining about, especially the humans being so similair and dull....think about it...these people are all decendants of the crew that was on the OBERON....so there had to be alot of inbreeding going on there...not a pretty thought, but a realistic one considering the story. And there lack of dialouge...it was pretty clear when they were captured that talking would only call attention to themselves...and seeing Thade's attitude about humans in general it would seem like the last thing a human would want to do is get an ape's attention. Anyway, lighten up guys....try'n go to the movies to ENJOY yourselves once an' awhile...

  • July 29, 2001, 5:40 p.m. CST

    It's science FICTION people!

    by doggydropdit

    First off, I really enjoyed Planet of the Apes and let me go ahead and get the requisite (and oft repeated) disclamer out of the way: although it wasn't as good as the original. Now that that's out of the way...reading through the talkback on this movie I found myself growing increasingly more confused by the posts that picked this movie apart. Alot of you have said something along the lines of "the ending was ridiculous" or "not plausible" or "defied logic"...come on people! You can buy the notion of talking apes that have humans for slaves, but the endind was not "plausible"??? It's called science fiction for a reason. I could think of many other ways this movie could have ended that would have been worse. At least this ending makes you think, and it will keep you thinking until there is a sequel that answers all of our unanswered questions. Secondly, I read one post that said you wished it was a "remake" instead of a "reimagination" of the story. If it would have been an out-and-out remake you people that like to tear films like this apart would be even more vicious. I don't think this movie was perfect, but then again I don't think I've ever seen a "perfect" movie. Even in my favorite movies I can point out flaws. It's the fact that I don't overanalyze these flaws that helps me enjoy the movies. The make-up was great, visually the movie rocked, and the story was good (flawed yes, but good still). I'll definitely see it again.

  • July 29, 2001, 5:43 p.m. CST

    Planet of the Apes/ Am I wrong... (spoiler)

    by LurkerCreep

    Am I wrong or did the pod's chronometer show that Leo (Wahlberg) travelled BACK through time to approximately the year 2100 on his return trip through the wormhole/timewarp storm? Now, if the movie started in the year 2029, this would only place him 71 years from his own time. Are we to believe that what took a thousand or so years to occur on "the planet of the apes" only took 71 years to occur on Earth? Or should we assume that Thade found a fully fucntional "spare" pod and went through the time storm, was spat out 71 or so years before Leo's return and led an ape revolt? Now, don't get me wrong, I LOVED this movie!! I also don't have a problem with the ending... EXCEPT the fact that it takes place so close to the film's start point (2029). If the pod's chronometer would've showed that Leo had travelled FORWARD though time, the ending and the whole film would be perfect. I've only seen the movie once so ,if I saw the chronometer wrong, please let me know at rayconner@yahoo.com

  • July 29, 2001, 5:44 p.m. CST

    Plausible albeit ridiculous ending explanation

    by userid477

    First at the end when they get to Calima they show two BIG planets or moons (whatever) in the sky so they were not on earth. Second when he was returning home during the last shot. He was in the time warp (or whatever) and they show clock counting down when it gets to 21?? they flash back to him and he is still in the time warp so the clock is still counting down, so you can

  • July 29, 2001, 6:01 p.m. CST

    C'mon people

    by Perfect-Snark

    Some of you (a lot of you in fact) are doing some REAL mental gymnastics to justify this movie and it's insane shit... at some point you're just going to have to face the fact that it sucked ass. And that it made little to no sense, trust me I've thought all these possibilities through and came up with 70% of them before even reading them here, I am capable and interested in trying to justify such a bald faced piece of crap, but only in my own mind. Because I know that it just plain sucked, so I'm not going to concoct some wild theory and bring it before you people, because we all know that it was just a piece of shit movie, end of story. I've liked bits and pieces of Burton's work but I've always thought him over-rated, and having him direct POTA was just flat out insane.

  • July 29, 2001, 6:06 p.m. CST

    What a relief...

    by Herve'

    What a relief to know that no matter who rules, the human female will always have access to breast implants.

  • July 29, 2001, 6:23 p.m. CST

    This is the longest Talk Back I've ever seen.

    by DarthZachToo

    Man this Talk Back is big. But anyways the movie rocked!!! I loved how Charlton Heston pounded his hand into the sand when found out the "statue"(for all u that don't like spoilers) had been blown up. But why is Harry reviewing a movie from the 70's.

  • July 29, 2001, 6:50 p.m. CST

    An ending theory that works (almost)

    by specks

    Okay, Wahlberg & his chimp used pods Alpha and Delta. The Oberon would not send the whole station after him right away. Instead, they would send pods Beta and Gamma after him. We know what happens to the Oberon, but not pods Beta and Gamma. So, imagine this: One of the pods arrives shortly after Wahlberg leaves. The crewmember on board opens the cabin with his palm (OOPS - You IDIOT!). Thade uses pod Beta (or Gamma - or both) and navigates his way to Earth. You're on your own now. Maybe he releases genetically engineered monkeys there. Maybe he takes one pod and a female ape takes the other. Pick your own time period for their arrival. ...of course, this doesn't explain the horses and the multiple moons or stars...

  • July 29, 2001, 6:54 p.m. CST

    POTA = BAD SCIFI

    by apelord!

    I'm not even going to compare this new planet of the apes movie to the original because it would be blasphemy, what i wil do is use it as an overwhelming example of the hollywood marketing machine at its best, meaning worst. Tim Burton has obviously sold himself to the highest bidder choosing to enter projects at an already advanced stage of development(Example: Sleepy Hollow was being developed by make up effects master Kevin Yagher before it was given to Burton)this leads to mixed results, POTA ends up being a jumbled mess, its trying to be to many things for too many people, is it a Tim Burton movie?, is it a planet of the apes movie? is it a summer popcorn flick? Now the ending is a totally diferent story, the first planet is not earth, the last one is, note the identical geography, Thade instead of Lincoln? i havent managed to make sense of it yet. THIS IS NOT GOOD SCIFI!!! True SciFi is taking scientific knowledge and stretching it to its farthest yet LOGICAL conclusion, i'm tired of films using sci fi as a gimmick or excuse for a weak plot. Go see A.I. again, dont waste your time on POTA.

  • July 29, 2001, 7:04 p.m. CST

    Ape Lincoln

    by Dark Bastion

    This is the order to which I was introduced to the Planet of the Apes mythos: book, Burton film, and soon, the original Heston flick (but I already know many key plot lines, like the ending). I read the book a mere week before Burton's film came out, because I was looking forward to it so much. Ladies and gentlemen, this movie is shit. Total dreck. It offers nothing new WHAT SO EVER to PotA. The acting, the sets, the script, EVERYTHING was horrible. The makeup, the music, and to a lesser extent, Helena Bonham Carter, are the ONLY things in this movie that are not camel ass-crust. Harry, I respect your opinion, but come on! The ending, with Ape Lincoln, was the most trite sci-fi move I have ever seen in film. This movie is cliche after cliche, and is saved only by its somewhat unique subject matter. Burton's PotA made Pearl Harbor and Mission to Mars look like Braveheart and 2001. Everyone who liked this movie needs to read the novel and realize what a jizz in the eye it is. Dark Bastion out.

  • July 29, 2001, 7:54 p.m. CST

    Apes would have no problem....

    by POoh01

    Apes would have no problem taking over this freakin planet, judging by all the messages I have been reading, this planet is full of idiots. I cannot believe the criticism that is being directed at the film, at Tim Burton, Mark Wahlberg and even Estella Warren(yeah, she sure isn't as good as Linda hamilton, that Nova was such a richly drawn out character). The way everyone is talking I am surprised that AFI didn't name Planet of the Apes the greatest film ever or Charlton Heston the greatest actor of all time. Holy shit, I mean the original was a B movie with a good premise, some memorable lines and shocking ending but there was alot of bad dialogue, plot holes and one ugly over emoting lead actor. Tim burton's film has a kick ass score, fucking phenomenal make-up, some great scenes and one messed up simian ( I would rather watch Thade going ape shit for 2 hours than seeing cornelius shuffling along with that perplexed look on his face)Granted he could of took it one step further but it had to PG 13, and it is still just an Ape movie. All the over analyization of the end is dumbfounding, I mean that ending is 100 times better than anything you pea brains could of come up with, and besides I really don't think there is a logical reason for Thades statue until they come up with one when the sequel is written. The only thing that bugged me in terms of implausability was that any of those apes would of mutilated a human with one monkey stomp, I mean when that 800 pound gorilla jumped on Davidson's back it would of crushed him, or thade continuously beating on Davidson, he would of looked like a raw piece of meat. Anyway as William Shatner once said "why don't you people....Get a life?"

  • Doesn't anybody remember this shit. When they were filming this movie they kept saying that it would take place on ANOTHER PLANET AND NOT EARTH. They had this in magazines and press releases and all sorts of shit. I don't think they would go back now and say "oh yeah we lied". I can't believe I'm the only one who remembers this. Also to whoever said the ending was supposed to be a cliffhanger that is so bullshit. A cliffhanger is supposed to leave you in suspense and wanting to know what happens next. The only thing this ending did was confuse the fuck out of everybody which is not the purpose of a cliffhanger. You shouldn't come out of a movie and say "what the fuck was that. Oh well I guess they'll explain it in the sequel". It's just a bad ending plain and simple.

  • July 29, 2001, 8:08 p.m. CST

    You like The End of This Movie, But You Get Pissed By The End of

    by jollydwarf

    And preparing for re-entry...U.S. Beetlejuice making unauthorized landing...here to change the course of AICN...all hail General Stern...3...2...1...Hey, Harry, at least A.I.'s ending made sense and didn't ask you to make one thousand assumptions about what happened! I have never seen a "surprise ending" that asked the viewer to fill in such a chasm of logical connections. And while I'm not the first person to ask this, why wasn't Gary Dell'Abate, a.k.a. BabaBooey cast in this film? Just think...THADE: I want to get rid of that human right now!! BABABOOEY: Okay, bofth! I will use my big lips as a flotation device so we can all get across the river. P.S. WHERE THE FUCK DID THE HORSES COME FROM?!?!

  • July 29, 2001, 9:03 p.m. CST

    The REAL TWIST the discussions of the ending!!!!

    by jollydwarf

    Thade just used the fucked-up chronology of the AICN talkbacks to get back before Wahlberg left which before the monkey vanished, which was after the space station saw the earth transmissions, which was somewhere between a Sleazy G and Buzz Maverick post, which somehow happened before Harry put in an update...ya follow?

  • July 29, 2001, 9:42 p.m. CST

    Totally OT... just cause I'm baked...but doesn't

    by Vance Castaway

    Rob Bottin deserve some kind of ultimate, life-long, Neo-Millennial, Super-Duper achievement award for his work in John Carpenter's The Thing? I mean, I'm sitting here watching it... and wow, just for the sheer imagination involved with what he creates in this film.... and it's so very creepy and primal too. I say this will all due respect to Geiger's Alien and a few others, but man if this isn't the all-time greatest movie monster, well, I don't know what is.... Peace

  • July 29, 2001, 9:51 p.m. CST

    Thade will kick your pansy ass if you don't read this post. So r

    by Karma Police

    Ahhh, yes--just what everyone wants, more talk about the ending. And while there are a lot of good comments/ideas floating around on here (and some real shitty ones, too), there are a few things that haven't been mentioned: 1. When Marky Mark's going back through the electro-magnetic storm or whatnot, his pod's chronometer isn't running forward or staying still. It's going back, and it's fair to assume from the point that the camera cuts away that Marky Mark lands on (an?) Earth that's from 1990-2029. The cars and helicopters are normal, the cameras are normal, the clothes--nothing's futuristic. Even the architecture and layout of DC isn't futuristic--you'd think that if it was at least 2029, if not beyond, there would be flying ships in Earth's atmosphere and/or above the streets, and the architecture wouldn't look the same. The radio transmissions to Marky Mark also refer to his pod as a "UFO," so it stands to reason that they wouldn't be in the future, as they'd be familiar with craft such as his. It just doesn't make sense that these are genetically fucked-with apes that've started evolving from 2029 onward. 2. Thade, in the big statue, is dressed in old-timey clothes, just like Lincoln. Further proof against the whole evolutionary thing, if you care to take it. This also hints at an expansive history for these apes, though to expect that their history would've mimicked ours is pretty ridiculous, and Burton would've thought so too (I hope). 3. There's no way Thade would've been able to salvage Marky Mark's pod. He was pretty much broken at the end of the film, and it seems as if Attar became the planet's leader, and like he would've been stupid enough to let Thade out to go tramping about in the forest to (a) get the balls up to go swimming, and (b) do some repair work on a pod that he's completely unfamiliar with. 4. Unrelated to the ending: When Marky Mark tells Helena Bonham Carter "I'll show you something that will change your world forever," I was pretty sure he was referring to the last scene of "Boogie Nights." 5. In the end and after all this talkback forum's discussions/ranting, I still think that this is simply a cliffhanger ending. There is no explanation, at least not until the sequel(s). Burton's too smart to leave something like this with a simplistic or inexplicable conclusion, and he's also too talented of a filmmaker to be trying to say something here and fail to transmit it on such a massive level--nobody gets this ending, and that's the way Burton wants it, if you ask me. 6. This was the best way to end it. For those who saw "Empire Strikes Back" in the theaters, how bewildering did it seem for Vader to tell Luke he was his father? It makes no sense whatsoever, especially when you realize that with what Ben said in the first film, there're direct contradictions (which are knid of half-assededly explained in "Jedi").... My point is that endings like these that seem completely stupid are usually much more. It's not fair to write it off as a straight-forward ending of apes evolving, nor is it fair to blame it on Burton, who's pretty fucking solid with his films. The only fair thing to do is to just kind of kick around theories and disbeliefs, and hope that there's a forthcoming explanation, because I'm pretty sure there's one (or, like "Empire," there will be one) out there in Burton's head. 7. That's it. If anybody really read that whole thing ... shit. Nice work. Email me and I'll send you a congratulatory certificate, or a candy bar, or something.

  • July 29, 2001, 9:56 p.m. CST

    2 moons

    by Gentle_Fury

    Ok well i wasnt going to write a talkback on this one but after reading some of these i have to. Someone said it had 2 moons so its not earth........HELLO!!! In case you werent aware, one theory is that the earth did in fact at one time have 2 moons. One of them crashed into the earth causing a huge hole. The great barrier reef, the deepest hole on earth and the hugest mountain. SOOOO, if Oberon crashed on earth before the evolution of man and implenented these genetically mutated apes onto the planet.....in the 1000 or so years they evolved into what we would consider the chinese dynasty. Thus the reason that guns are unknown and swords seemed to be only used by warriors. Thade lived. Being the great leader he was he defeats the humans and makes a name for himself as being the one that emancipated the apes from the tyrannous humans (of course its all bullshit, but so is most of our history) so basically its the oldest tradition. History is written by the winners. Apes rule and humans are forgotten. When Whalberg (damn his character was underplayed i dont even know his name!!!) returns to his own time it is now on this alternate timeline where apes rule the earth and have made all the same mistakes that man made and ended up at about the point we are at today. The only problem was the little time counter thingy. When Whalberg comes back to ape earth at the end his chrono tracker thing is going backwords. Course the whole idea that you would have an instrument on a ship that measures time is dumb as shit anyways as time is an increment determined by the revolution of a planet around the sun........so time is irrelevant and unmeasurable whilst floating in space. So, as silly and predictable as this movie was it was fun. Also to the person that said that Tim Burton "sold out" and did Mars Attacks.....you are a fucking moron!!!! That was the least from selling out he could have ever gotten!!! everyone involved in that movie KNEW it would make no money......the only reason that it had such a great cast was because of Jack Nicholson. Hell Jacks the only reason that movie even got made. Tim Burton was always a big sci-fi fan as a kid. There was a trading card set called "Mars Attacks" and basically he had an idea to make a really silly b-grade movie based on that! Noone in hollywood wanted to do it! It was a dumb idea and was destined to make no money. So Tim went to Jack and told him about it and Jack loved it........said if he could play 2 major roles in it he would get it produced.....after word of this got out everyone in hollywood wanted to be in it just to get killed in some silly old school sci-fi way! Noone really got paid a whole lot to do that movie, it was like a hollywood acting retreat. And apparently noone really had star syndrome on the set because everyone was just there to have fun and there were so many stars it wasnt really nesassary. It was really more a private industry toy and joke. So by saying he "sold out" in doing that one you are on crack!!!! if there was any movie that would be considered "selling out" it would be POTA as it was meant to make MUCHO DINERO!! But in this industry the goal is TO sell out!!! we all need to eat we all need to eat.....so creatively whoring yourself out gets you the cash and lets you live the dream!! so dont knock it, its a FUN lifestyle!!!!

  • July 29, 2001, 10 p.m. CST

    Thade is pissed. At you. Still.

    by Karma Police

    And one more thing--assuming that Thade had gotten into a pod and gone back to Earth thousands of years ago and made it so that apes were the dominant species on the planet, then wouldn't that have changed the future? I mean, fucked up the future to the extent that Marky Mark's mission probably wouldn't have ever happened (if any humans would even still be alive)? This is basic "Back to the Future" time travel stuff. If Thade had gone back, as some are suggesting, then he would have changed the course of Earth's development, thus eliminating Marky Mark's existence, the film's plot and the apes' planet's existence, and clearly making the ending completely impossible.

  • July 29, 2001, 10:08 p.m. CST

    Guns, Horses, clocks, door, moons, planets,on and on and on...

    by Mixed_Messages

    I think it's mentioned a few times, but I think I'll remind everyone with a theory about the ending...PLEASE USE THE FACT THAT THAT MAN LANDED ON A PLANET WITH MORE THAN ONE MOON...AND MORE THAN ONE STAR...when you feel to come to a explanation. And what the hell is the matter with some of this "future" guns?! With the first shot, an entire tree is blown in half!! But for the rest of the show it only nicks(IF it had that much concussive force... the general's arm would of exploded) and makes pretty sparks and ricochets inside a small space with very little damage to the room or the person in it.. and even if none of those hit the general, the many explosions would of pounded the chimp into a shallow grave.And what's the deal with some of these weapons of the FUTURE, are they made out of tin foil and balsa, because they break pretty damn easy!! what's next... even I don't know where those horses came from, was that station fully stocked with all types of fauna? What's the deal with these clocks? How do these clocks know if it moving ahead or behind?! What does it key off from? If they were being affected by travelling through time...why didn't the occupant feel that passage of time as well?! And lets mention the MOONS (PLURAL) and STARS(PLURAL) of which many here have completely ignored... Oh yes...Door, of which the general Thady was trapped within by, of which has preserved this room for many...many years. Deflected a questionable "FUTURE" weapon's projectiles...how long do you think someone will last without water. Humans usually die in less than a week, so if this room is as impervious as we all saw...dead chimpy in less than two weeks, that is if he doesn't suffocate before than(I didn't see any other exit, and this is a craft made to insure that what is in stays in...) P.S. This movie has made much money, a sequel is assured. So wail or praise away...It really...really doesn't matter one damn. In fact, I believe many here are cooking stories, ignoring and bitching (Like myself..the bitchin part that is) about this movie just because it's fun to tweak the gullible who kneejerks at all of it.

  • July 29, 2001, 10:09 p.m. CST

    First : Let me say *SPOILERS AHEAD* , Second POTA was NOT earth

    by Mayhem Ensues

    THIRD: As for the ending... I didnt think it was THAT confusing: Leo leaves POTA, travels through the "timewarping thingee" and goes back to Earth BUT once there he finds out that somehow Thade (at some time after Leo's departure from POTA) was able to get out of his improvised prison cell, get into one of the OTHER mini-space ships, launched it, used it to pass through the "timewarping thingee" himself, where he ALSO landed on Earth BUT Thade arrived a couple of hundered years earlier than than Leo (maybe the mid 19th century?). Once there Thade used his superior simian/genetically enhansed physique and intellect, his great ability in stratagy and warfare (He is a General), his cunning (he was able to take over the ape civilization by manipulating Ari's father into declaring martial law) PLUS any of the highly advanced technology that he brought back with him from the future (including that "blaster" pistol) - With these assets Thade was able to alter Earths history and replace humans as the dominant species. See, Not so hard was it? Can anyone find a hole in this?

  • July 29, 2001, 10:16 p.m. CST

    alternate reality ending

    by humboldt99

    Its pretty simple, its just another reality. There was a tear in time, why not in reality. It being exactly like Earth in the end is just a giant irony.

  • July 29, 2001, 10:18 p.m. CST

    And I agree with ol' Pixbit. . . . . WATCH Final Fantasy: The

    by Mixed_Messages

    So far, this has been the most enjoyable science fiction movie this year. And it will be gone from the theater probably this week. Listen to the dialogue first. For those who thought that the ending sucked. The ending was explained in the concil meeting, it was that simple.

  • July 29, 2001, 10:46 p.m. CST

    But, it's so simple

    by GadgetBoy

    ok.1) Leo crashes on a planet, some 400 years in the future, where Apes rule and talking humans lives as slaves. 2) When Leo finds the Oberon, we learn that the space station crashed on the planet, after trying to find him. We learn that the chimps were much more inteligent than expected. We learn that a chimp,named Samos (and forgive me, I suspect it's not the exact name) is the leader of those chimps, and is the most vicious towards humans. We learn that Thade is a direct descendant of Samos; so yes, Thade's father, played by Charlton Heston, knowing the truth about his ancestor, tell Thade to get rid of Leo, so the secret could stay secret. We can assume, therefore, that those humans are the descendants of the people on the station. That can also explain why they talk. Now, 3) When Leo gets back in his pod, he gets back in time, back on earth, around the time he left. Now, Thade's statue. First, I think the movie never took place on earth, but a similar planet. Second, I think the key are the chimps on the station and Thade's ancestor, Samos. In an alternate past, the station crashed on earth, and the chimps took over. Samos being a leader, it could explain that his descendant, Thade, would be their Abraham Lincoln. Simple, no?

  • July 29, 2001, 11:11 p.m. CST

    YEP...Just saw the Eberts show ...

    by Mixed_Messages

    It showned the pilot's descent, and look at that---THREE MOONS. I also noticed that the filmed angle of the pod smacking into the water was different from what showned up in the movie. They increased the impact of the pod from the water skipping version shown in the trailer.

  • July 29, 2001, 11:55 p.m. CST

    why does everyone think aperaham lincoln is thade?

    by ElGuapo

    thade was just one species of simian. the founders and the ruling class of the culture. so statues remade in their visage make sense. in the ochimpic stadium on that palnet they've probably altered the statues to look like duncan's gorilla. and plastic surgeons probably get a lot of requests for "ari's nose". (as someone else here said, michael jackson already got his, and come the revolution he'll probably be the only one spared because of his relationship with bubbles.) why can't the apes have evolved on the "earth-like" planet, waged war and taken over? you know, when australia was first discovered about 200 years ago the indigenous population had not even invented the wheel. they had remained pretty much unevolved for 30,000 years. the only thing missing was the dinosaurs. whereas on the other side of the world they were, comparatively, light years ahead. why can't two ape cultures evolve at different rates? why does it have to be thade that travels to earth? why can't what happens there be independent of what happens on pota? the ending was about the only thing that brought the film to life and made it remotely more interesting than any other chase movie. where was the "burton" set design and art direction? the ape kingdom looked like something left over from an ewok adventure. where was the jaw-dropping "reveal" of the apes when we (and captain underpants) see them for the first time? the camerawork, with the exception of the lighting for close ups of the ape faces, was lazy and uninspired. and you're right. where did those horses come from? i hope we do get a sequel. 'cos this one was majorly disappointing. and the ending leaves questions that should to be answered, a world that would be cool and interesting to explore, and issues that could be addressed. the next pota needs the full burton treatment. and a decent script.

  • Can't you fucks form your own opinion's about anything on your own without coping someone else's? Really man, I've read most of your comments and they are practically identical. "This movie is the worst summer movie ever", "This movie is shit!", "The ending sucked." It's always like this in these fucking message boards but this one has to be the most juvenile and childish. Hey Harry you should change the name of your message board from "Talk Back" to "Hop On The Band Wagon" because most of your reader can't create they're own opinion's if their lives were at stake. But anways enough about that, I LOVED this movie! Sure it has some flaws but I still very much enjoyedit , actually I think it's one of Tim Buton's best. What do you think about that? And no I'm not a Tim Burton fanatic. Mars Attacks, Sleepy Hollow, and Batman Returns are amongst his weakest. But I really enjoyed HIS version of POTA and YES his ending was very surprising to me more so than the original. It really got caught off gaurd. Although to be totally honest I'm a little confused by it and I might have to see a couple of more times just to fully understand it. If not, the ending might even become one of those famous Hollywood mysteries that won't be revieled until years later kind of like the "Blade Runner" Harrsion Ford being replicant thing. I can't wait for the POTA DVD special edition hopefully with a Tim Burton commentary so that he can help explain it. Anyways, POTA rules the Earth!

  • July 30, 2001, 12:17 a.m. CST

    lame

    by lengen

    Explain to how you can have three writers on this story and not have a brain between the three of them. The problem is when you play with time you often get bite. The ending is so stupid it defies words. Just think for a moment about if apes really evolved to the same technical level that we are would they drive cars and motorcycles of the same type a human would? But that aside how in the world did he travel back in time and have this happen? Where is the setup to explain how this would occur? All I can say is that the summer is almost over and now we can look forward to next summer. Maybe someone in Hollywood will find a writer with a brain. I hear the scarecrow is looking for work. Really disappointing.

  • July 30, 2001, 12:21 a.m. CST

    Looks like we'll be waiting for the sequel...

    by TruPhan

    ...or atleast a commentary by Tim and the writers on the DVD. I do admire the ending though, but not for its worth cinematically, but because of the what it has done to its audience - sparked the imagination. The theories I'm reading here are amazing, one of which being original and going so far as to say that maybe Walberg's charcter was actually insane. It does leave you wondering, and its left many wanting more, or just wanting, even if it is a little. You must admit this to yourself, since this is the reason you're reading this. I am going to watch it a second time later today and will go in thinking about every theory I took the time to read in these Talkbacks, though I do think this film has succeeded where others haven't.

  • July 30, 2001, 1:12 a.m. CST

    Ending

    by yellowjacket03

    So General Thade teaches himself to fly a pod, then goes to Earth and conquers the entire planet? The fucking monkey's knowledge of technology is limited to SNIFFING THE BARREL of a gun. You must have been SNIFFING GLUE if you liked the ending. It's too bad cause I really wanted to like this movie and I was going to grudingly accept that it was better than I expected until I saw the end. Then I just threw up my arms and said "FUCK THIS."

  • July 30, 2001, 1:16 a.m. CST

    Did anyone notice

    by OrbitEnt2001

    Did anyone notice that in the master shots from in front of the Oberon facing the entrance they went into looked like the crown of the statue of liberty. I know this is not the statue of liberty, but i think that the threw that in there intentionally. anyway, the movie rocked and it was worth the wait i had for it. the original is, and will always be better, and it is in my top 10 for all time. this version however is really really good and probably the most enjoyable movie of the year for me, and i've seen almost everything. and the ending was cool, so leave it at that and stop picking it apart and let it be. AI is still the #1 movie of the year IMHO, but this is in the top 5.

  • July 30, 2001, 5:25 a.m. CST

    CA-LI-ma

    by Clavius

    One thing I have a problem with is the "sacred" site of Calima from where apparently all ape life sprung. We find that they get the word Calima from a sign on board the crashed Oberon which read "Caution Live Animals" with some of the letters obscured by dust and dirt so that only "Ca Li ma" is visible. The first thing Wahlberg does is wipe the dirt off of the sign so he can read the rest of it. My question is, in all the thousands of years that ship had been lying there, none of the apes thought to simply run a feather duster over it? I mean the layer of dirt was so thin, you could've blown on it and it would've come off. Instead, they leave it alone and dub it the ape equivalent of Jerusalem. Still, in spite of the plot problems, it was still a lot of fun.

  • July 30, 2001, 5:28 a.m. CST

    3 changes could have made the ending make perfect sense

    by hanker

    1. Make it clear in the beginning that the experimental chimps on the ship were part of a larger group housed back on earth. 2. Forget about showing the bogus time clock in the ship. Marky Mark doesn't need to know what year it is. However, we do--so when he crash lands on the planet with 2 suns and 2 moons, just note on the bottom of the screen, "400 years into the future". Then when he escapes from the planet, don't send him back in time. He just finds earth. 3. Don't make the memorial specifically to Thade (the most ridiculous part of the movie). It is just some monkey that overthrew the humans here on earth. The impact of landing on an ape filled earth is still there. With these 3 changes, the movie would have made perfect sense--the genetically engineered apes located on earth overthrow the humans sometime after 2029, thereby leaving the human infrastructure in place (police cars, Washington monument, Lincoln memorial, etc.) just like the genetically engineered apes took over the planet with 2 moons. PERFECT. As the movie is now, it is ridiculous to think that Thade could figure a way to earth and then overthrow humans. Tim Burton should have asked me before he made this movie. I would have given him the above advice and only charged a 750k consulting fee.

  • July 30, 2001, 5:36 a.m. CST

    The only good human...

    by Eddie Poe

    It was downright eerie: after nearly three decades, I found myself lining up once again to see a PLANET OF THE APES movie. Three decades was much too long a wait. Granted, the fourth and fifth installments of the initial series had been somewhat disappointing (the fifth being- by far- the worst screen treatment to date), but the basic concept remained wide open to interpretation. The live action tv series had had its moments (though few and far between), although I never really took to the cartoon series. I'd read the book by Pierre Boulle long before I ever set foot in a theater to see what Hollywood had wrought, and I liked the book- a lot. I liked the Schaffner film version even better. (If ever an actor was tailor-made for a lead in a movie, then certainly Charlton Heston was born to play "Taylor" in PLANET OF THE APES. Short shrift by "the Academy" aside, Heston's performance is a bona fide tour de force. Little wonder that Laurence Olivier has stated- for the record- that he considers "Charlton Heston the greatest actor on Earth." Or was that the stage...?) BENEATH THE PLANET OF THE APES was, in many ways, even better (in my own, ever-humble opinion) and ESCAPE FROM THE PLANET OF THE APES a solid third installment. When the series had "run its course," those of us who'd religiously attended each and every new release were left to wander the wasteland with little to look forward to. Rumors that "the franchise" (as it's wont to be labeled) would be resurrected at long last gave us hope. A reason to live. The opening of Tim Burton's new chapter in the Apes saga is most memorable: the title sequence alone speaks volumes. At once artistic and somehow arcane, it sets the stage for what is to come. There are the echoes of Michaelangelo's Sistine Chapel in the image of two apes with their fingers extended toward one another; the perhaps not quite so subtle hint of a fierce simian army; those eyes... The opening scenes establish very clearly that this is a whole NEW chapter in Apes history- an alternate history, if you will (if you're one of those poor unfortunates unable or unwilling to accept a whole new spin on things). [There are those who apparently find it hard to reconcile themselves to the fact that the tv series had nothing whatsoever to do with the feature films which had nothing whatsoever to do with the cartoon which had nothing to do with the comics...] There is humor aplenty in this version- something that was sadly lacking in many of the past entries. Paul Giamatti(?) steals the show. Tim Roth tends to overdo it a bit- he chews the scenery in nearly every scene-, but nonetheless comes across as a downright genuinely vicious adversary- the kind of enemy to be feared. The chimpanzee interactions, from the touching of knuckles to the sometimes jarring vocalizations, would make Jane Goodall proud. The semi-samurai/Roman battle dress was also a nice touch (I happen to be an Akira Kurosawa fan, as well). Simian samurai! Great flippin' idea! Personally, I had no problem with the prodigious leaps or the fact that the infantry was outrunning the cavalry. (I DID have a problem with the blows that sent humans flying bodily through the air- blows that no doubt would've decapitated the humans had they been THAT solid.) All things considered, this latest is a most interesting chapter in the Apes saga and I, for one, look forward to the next.

  • July 30, 2001, 5:42 a.m. CST

    The only good human...

    by Eddie Poe

    It was downright eerie: after nearly three decades, I found myself lining up once again to see a PLANET OF THE APES movie. Three decades was much too long a wait. Granted, the fourth and fifth installments of the initial series had been somewhat disappointing (the fifth being- by far- the worst screen treatment to date), but the basic concept remained wide open to interpretation. The live action tv series had had its moments (though few and far between), although I never really took to the cartoon series. I'd read the book by Pierre Boulle long before I ever set foot in a theater to see what Hollywood had wrought, and I liked the book- a lot. I liked the Schaffner film version even better. (If ever an actor was tailor-made for a lead in a movie, then certainly Charlton Heston was born to play "Taylor" in PLANET OF THE APES. Short shrift by "the Academy" aside, Heston's performance is a bona fide tour de force. Little wonder that Laurence Olivier has stated- for the record- that he considers "Charlton Heston the greatest actor on Earth." Or was that the stage...?) BENEATH THE PLANET OF THE APES was, in many ways, even better (in my own, ever-humble opinion) and ESCAPE FROM THE PLANET OF THE APES a solid third installment. When the series had "run its course," those of us who'd religiously attended each and every new release were left to wander the wasteland with little to look forward to. Rumors that "the franchise" (as it's wont to be labeled) would be resurrected at long last gave us hope. A reason to live. The opening of Tim Burton's new chapter in the Apes saga is most memorable: the title sequence alone speaks volumes. At once artistic and somehow arcane, it sets the stage for what is to come. There are the echoes of Michaelangelo's Sistine Chapel in the image of two apes with their fingers extended toward one another; the perhaps not quite so subtle hint of a fierce simian army; those eyes... The opening scenes establish very clearly that this is a whole NEW chapter in Apes history- an alternate history, if you will (if you're one of those poor unfortunates unable or unwilling to accept a whole new spin on things). [There are those who apparently find it hard to reconcile themselves to the fact that the tv series had nothing whatsoever to do with the feature films which had nothing whatsoever to do with the cartoon which had nothing to do with the comics...] There is humor aplenty in this version- something that was sadly lacking in many of the past entries. Paul Giamatti(?) steals the show. Tim Roth tends to overdo it a bit- he chews the scenery in nearly every scene-, but nonetheless comes across as a downright genuinely vicious adversary- the kind of enemy to be feared. The chimpanzee interactions, from the touching of knuckles to the sometimes jarring vocalizations, would make Jane Goodall proud. The semi-samurai/Roman battle dress was also a nice touch (I happen to be an Akira Kurosawa fan, as well). Simian samurai! Great flippin' idea! Personally, I had no problem with the prodigious leaps or the fact that the infantry was outrunning the cavalry. (I DID have a problem with the blows that sent humans flying bodily through the air- blows that no doubt would've decapitated the humans had they been THAT solid.) All things considered, this latest is a most interesting chapter in the Apes saga and I, for one, look forward to the next.

  • July 30, 2001, 6:15 a.m. CST

    POTA ROCKED!!

    by Izzard

    I am a huge fan of the Old POTA, but a lot of people I know did not like it and thought it to be creepy and weird (you know in that old 60's way) SO when I talked about 15 people to go see the new POTA everyone was not sure about it. Well to make this short, after the movie, everone loved it and loved the ending. We all felt it was a HUH ending, but what saved it was that Mark Walbergs character looked to feel the same way, he had no idea what was going on, he was just as confused as the audience. So We decided that why does everything have to spelled out for us, it's kind of fun trying to figure it out, and everyones answer is correct in it's own way. So I say. its just a movie, get on with it. I loved it you hated it, who CARES!!!

  • July 30, 2001, 6:21 a.m. CST

    Burton's ending?

    by Glasswalker64

    Hey Harry, Burton dealt with the book then added his ending? Huh? The ending is from the book, somewhat. Certainly not Burton's original idea. Movie was ok, but the ending was out of place.

  • July 30, 2001, 6:34 a.m. CST

    Nice try Harry, but that ending makes zero sense

    by Jack Burton

    Forgetting that Leo returns to aproximately 2152(based on the chronometer when the ship returns through the portal, and don't get me started on the chronometer's ability to tell the correct time) the time line is simply not advanced enough to allow that kind of evolution, so how in the hell did Thade get to Earth? How did we manage to take over the planet? If it happened in our early past, then the Oberon never should have launched in the first place. Speaking of the Oberon, were they not carrying Chimpanzees? Shouldn't the movie be called Planet of the Monkeys? This movie was nearly TOTAL GARBAGE! Rick Baker did an outstanding job, the costumes were cool, and SOME (Heston sucked) of the acting was very good (Bonham-Carter, and Giamatti. Roth was a cartoon). The script was crap. The story was boring and unengaging. I thought the movie was below average until the ending. Then it manages to lower itself even further. I had very low expectations and POTA still managed to be very disappointing. At least Battlefield Earth was entertainingly bad. This was just awful. One of the worst films in years. Should have released in 2000 it would have been right at home.

  • July 30, 2001, 7 a.m. CST

    I'll bet "BubbleBoy" has a better ending!

    by jollydwarf

    It has to. It's got Beetlejuice (and Verne Troyer) in it. Anyways, you're all wasting your time. The ending is so detatched from the rest of the film that it demands that you either don't question it or realize that there needed to be so many things that happen that aren't even vaguey implied. That's just bad storytelling. Look, love it or hate it, Unbreakable's twist ending made sense and was even explained in a quick flashback sequence. If Burton has a trilogy planned, it still doesn't justify that. No trilogy that I can think of has a cliffhanger that makes no sense. If this were a TV series, okay, MAYBE. But this is supposed to be a standalone film. Wait--I've got it!! Leo was just an imagined character of Edward Norton's schizophrenic mind, Thade was picked up by Darth Vader right after Vader flew his tie through a wormhole right after the Death Star dogfight, and all of this took place in the Matrix...Leo rhymes with Neo...which sets up the both sequels...a cross-studio project...now that's a twist!!! P.S. I'll bet that "Jay and Silent Bob Strikes Back" offers key clues with those monkeys seen in the trailer!! Wow! Mulder? Scully? Skinner?

  • July 30, 2001, 7:07 a.m. CST

    Horses

    by Zappadog

    Where the hell did the horses come from on this planet, did the Oberon have gores on board? Does this add credence to the theory that it was a primative earth?

  • July 30, 2001, 7:34 a.m. CST

    The debate ends here. (GO TO THIS LINK)

    by Jack Burton

    http://www.zap2it.com/movies/news/story/0,1259,---7881,00.html --- They didn't even try to have the ending make sense. Stop wasting your time and giving more attention to this piece of shit then it deserves.

  • July 30, 2001, 8:12 a.m. CST

    POTA2

    by Hjermsted

    Will the Apes of "modern" Earth treat Wahlberg as kindly as Cornelius and Zira were treated (at first) when they came to 1970s Earth in Escape From POTA? Will the "modern" apes let Marky Mark go to the movies where perhaps he'll be able to see the scary sci-fi horror film "Planet of the Humans" ..? There's lots of fun to be had with this. --- Personally, I don't believe Wahlberg is on a future version of Earth (the year counter in his ship went backwards toward where he originally left from). I think Thade went to space ship school and either fixed the submerged ship or hopped in pod B or C taking a joyride way back into Wahlberg's history (Civil War) and messed things up. --- Stay tuned for the sequel.. "Back to the Ape Future 2"!!

  • July 30, 2001, 9:14 a.m. CST

    Seventeen year old piece of gold...

    by Fred Yidas

    When Wahlberg said that if the apes helped him he would show them something that would change their world, did anyone else think he was going to whip out the Dirk Diggler trouser snake?

  • July 30, 2001, 9:35 a.m. CST

    THE TRUE ENDING...thanks "scooterj"

    by dirtyfrank

    This should clear it up...We heard from sources of the movie that it doesn't take place on "earth" .....Marky goes to our earth at the end of the film where THADE already beat him to the punch (got there first...he wasn't killed remember...just locked up) and took over "our" earth and remade the monuments in his image! I know it's confusing and maybe not the best movie...BUT IT WAS ENTERTAINING...and that's all I expected ...you all are way to negative.

  • July 30, 2001, 9:41 a.m. CST

    Markie "off his mark" Wahlberg

    by Tinymogul

    Harry, I think you have mistaken (or are desperately attempting to justify) Mark Wahlberg's indiferrence to the situation he's landing himself in. Myself, I attributed it to bad acting and screenwriting. When you break down on the freeway with a flat tire, you are usually NOT thrust into an alien environment dominated by talking apes! Quit trying to score points with Tim, Mark & The Fox Gang with you awful justifications for a bad film.

  • July 30, 2001, 10:09 a.m. CST

    FROM HELL TRAILER!!

    by RoccoGap

    Well I liked the movie a lot, but besides that....why isn't anyone talking about the INREDIBLE "From Hell" trailer. If theres any preview that has made me more excited about a film i cannot remember it. Visually it looks amazing, and everything else looks top notch as well. Im suprised none of you have even mentioned it. One more thing...Shallow Hal does look funny, but Jack Black's character is supposed to be a womanizer? Maybe I'm being a little judgmental, but there is no way someone who looks remotely like Jack Black would be getting dates from 100s of beautiful women. Coming from a guy whose into guys...this just doesn't seem right. Oh well, If it's funny who cares...right? :)

  • July 30, 2001, 10:26 a.m. CST

    Bring me the spaceman?

    by riskebiz

    Didn't Thade say that in the trailer? I don't remember him saying that once in the film. I wonder where they were going with that and why that part of the story was on the cutting room floor if there was any of that all? Perhaps it would have made this a better movie than Battle for the Planet of the Apes. Or better than the saturday cartoon version of POTA. This movie sure seemed like a bunch of suits rushed this into production and the hired guns like Burton did it for just something to do while he prepared a movie he really wanted to do. This didn't seem like a Tim Burton movie at all. It seemed more like a Ron Howard version of POTA.

  • July 30, 2001, 10:30 a.m. CST

    opposable thumbs....

    by Steve_Dooku

    Based on the "city" the Apes built...doesn't look like they were able to over come their big genetic "digit" flaw. Anyway..it was apparent that one of two things happened here; They royally screwed up this movie, or they were extremely clever in what they did. Here are a couple points: Press release after press release stated this was not earth...OK, whatever. Who made the "may-day" call when Leo gets sucked into the storm? It was clearly an old man ( I thought it looked like Leo, but who knows)and not young Captain Davidson. The readout on the Pod when Leo is on approach to Earth clearly states that it is Delta Pod. Delta Pod was at the bottom of the pond. This might seem nit-picky but I wasn't even looking for this detail...it was pretty blatent. Continuity error, most likely (?) There is no way Thade is going anywhere. It simply wasn't portrayed that way. He was a blithering mess at the end, with no hope of escape. One guy had it right...the best they could do with their "intellect" was shove the open ended barrel of a pistol up it's nose? Only after they saw the human use the weapon did he stumble upon it's real use. Seemed to be consistant with that. Thade never saw Leo use the "video log" plus he never had the controller to start it up. With these points alone the ending doesn't make any sense. The Apes didn't have the resources or ability to improve on the technology of their world, or else the already would have. Yeah, it's retarded going on about silly hollywood movies..but it's fun too.

  • July 30, 2001, 10:49 a.m. CST

    No, you're all wrong, i have somebody on the inside, heres the r

    by GregoryG

    Nononono, you're all wrong. What it was is that he arrived back on earth on halloween, and all of the policemen were at the policeman's ball, and they were all dressed up as apes (well, not all of them, if you look in the background really hard, you can see a man in a chicken costume), and the first scene of the next movie is going to be: Ape cop: Freeze! Put your hands up! Leo: Oh my god, you're all apes! Ape cop2: NO! GOT YA! *pulls off mask* No, but seriously, i loved the little skirk on Thede's face at the end, its as if the statue is looking right at Leo and says "Take that, bitch!"

  • July 30, 2001, 10:58 a.m. CST

    Apes Ending

    by DoJoTy

    Harry, as much as I sometimes respect you, you have once again shown why your longing to love certain movies gets in the way of your critical faculties -- and thus, your potential as a serious writer on film. The ending of Planet Of The Apes makes no sense unless it is supposed to be the way that one talkbacker suggested -- that Thade somehow learned the technology, traveled back in time, and changed the course of human/ape evolution on Earth -- in other words, the ending comes from a sequel that hasn't been made yet. But how would Thade learn all this? He wasn't posited as a brilliant scientist (like Dr. Milo in Escape, who learned how to fly Taylor's ship)? And how would he get that dead hulk out of the ground? Holes, holes everywhere... Harry, your idea that Marky Mark travels into a future earth smacks of desperation on your part. If it was the future, why did the chronometer on his ship go backwards (and why didn't he need a helmet, while we're at it)? Why did everything -- from the Washington Monument to the police cars -- look like the present? Harry, you don't even mention why there's a statue of Thade there. C'mon, stop acting for one minute like the dimwitted movie geek that the studios would like us to be, and realize that this smells like exactly what it is. I'm not nitpicking here. These are serious script flaws, there's more of them every day, and the studios, screenwriters, and filmmakers don't even care anymore. But everyone just went and spent $70 million to see this waste of time, so we'll just keep getting more of what we deserve.

  • July 30, 2001, 11:14 a.m. CST

    The ending could've been better

    by RDEUCE

    Harry, in your recap of the ending you skipped over the only truly confusing detail: assuming that's earth in the end, how could Thade's likeness show up on the statue? PoxyVonSinister offered the best rationale I've heard so far, but I still think the finale would have worked better if that was just a random ape face instead of Abe's and Thade's name wasn't in the inscription at all. But of course then it wouldn't have opened the door quite so wide for a sequel, and we know that's what the studio was most concerned with. The original film w/Chuck Heston ended so perfectly because it ENDED. You didn't need a sequel to explain what happened, you knew the twist and were shocked by it. This was shocking at first, but now we need another movie to explain the Thade connection. That sucks.

  • July 30, 2001, 12:09 p.m. CST

    Four Flaws that keep me from loving it...

    by themadhobbit

  • July 30, 2001, 12:52 p.m. CST

    What are you people talking about?

    by mmbcook

    Marky Mark (according to the chronometer) went about 600 years into the future, not thousands! The planet was close to Saturn, before the time/space warp, the planet had two moons, and the topology was totally different than Earth's (which hasn't changed in MILLIONS of years), so it does not make sense that the POTA was "Old Earth". When Marky Mark left the space/time warp and approached Earth the chronometer went back to 2029, not thousands of years into the future, therefore modern day cars, motorcycles and helicopters greeted him, not futuristic ones. If Thade "used a pod" to travel back in time to Earth, where did the other apes come from? Did he mount some monkey in the zoo and create a whole new race on Earth!? Overall I enjoyed the movie, and the ending, which was more like the book, but it left too many questions unanswered. Yet it is not for the audience to speculate the meaning of this movie. The answers will be given in the sequel!

  • July 30, 2001, 1:07 p.m. CST

    Harry is smoking crack

    by DomisInnerChild

    There is no way in Hell the genetically engineered little monkies back on Earth rebelled, took over the Earth, evolved exactly the same as the apes on the Planet of the Apes, repopulated the Earth in 1-1000 years (assuming an ape virus killed off the entire human population, the humans killed themselves by nukes or whatever, or those 50 genetically engineered monkies were better killers than Rambo), had a great leader named Thade who looked just like the Thade on the POTA, AND liked retro American culture enough to bring back late 20th century cop cars, clothing, and cameras. The ending simply cheated. It's too much of a strech that either Pod A went back in time and the first chimp banged some primative tail on Earth before returning to bail out Marky Mark and then the Apes evolved to take over the world and develop American Culture exactly, or there was some sort of demenison rift where the pods/Obitron split in two and created two realities where one happened on Earth and the other on the POTA, OR (the most likely one Fox will use for the sequel although it's still dumb) Thade escaped his prison (using the monkies paw? the power going out?), regained some amount of power, sent humans into the lake to recover Pod D, piloted the ship without crashed into the votex, went to Earth without knowing what/where it was, banged some primative tail and reshaped evolution (which still would develop American Culture, because it's so coooool).

  • July 30, 2001, 1:24 p.m. CST

    Four Flaws that keep me from loving it...

    by themadhobbit

    Overall I enjoyed the movie. It didn't suck. It didn't rule either, due to four near fatal flaws. 1.) The crash of the Oberon. Cool way to set-up the whole thing. Neatly explains the apes and people and language. But where the hell did the damn horses come from? They really weren't even necessary. Minor point, but bothersome still! 2.) I do NOT for one minute buy Attar's last minute refutation of his beliefs. The whole movie he is made to be a deeply religious, if not fanatical believer in CMOS (sp?). I feel his conversion at the end was rushed and I feel cheated. No way a fanatic changes their tune becuase of a single lame sentence from a human! Attar is made out to be deeply religious AND loyal to Thade and he just swaps sides because Marky Mark says so?!?! No way! 3.) Maybe Star Trek has spoiled me, but am I the only one who can't digest the "logic" of Wahlberg's decision to fly back to the anomoly and expect to get anywhere? No computations, no analysis and in a fighter/shuttle to boot??? Stupid stupid stupid. 4.) The ending. Tacked on and nearly ruined the movie for me. Why do we ALWAYS need a TWIST ending??? This one makes no sense at all within the construct of the film. I can't even get into it I find it so distatseful. DESPITE the above, I enjoyed it for all the reasons TO enjoy it - Bakers work, Giomatti's acting, Shadix's acting and most of all- Tim Roth - migod that guy is awesome!

  • July 30, 2001, 1:30 p.m. CST

    Worst.Ending.Ever.

    by PR_GMR

    I agree with most of Harry's review...but not with his take on the ending.It's an awful,impossible ending!!!! The good things about POTA:Tim Roth,Danny Elfman,Rick Baker. But the bad outweighs the good in this movie:The plot's ridiculuous.The characters are flat.The plot holes are planet-sized. Give Rick Baker the Oscar alread and let's chalk POTA 2001 under the heading "When Good Directors Make Bad MOvies."

  • July 30, 2001, 2:12 p.m. CST

    Horses?

    by otcconan

    Ok now I've seen it a second time, and I have to say, POTA HAS to be Earth. That is the only explanation for the horses. Unless of course there were some on the Oberon but I don't think that's likely.

  • July 30, 2001, 2:26 p.m. CST

    Gawd......what a dissapointing talkback

    by MrSandman

    That's it, I've swore off talkbacks (for the 100th time). Seeing all these pissing and moaning messages about how POTA SUXORZ!!!!111 and pointlessly trying to explain the ending which I LIKED because it DIDN'T make sense......ugh....I just give up, there is no hope

  • July 30, 2001, 2:36 p.m. CST

    POTA ending....another theory

    by t31luu

    Maybe someone else posted it earlier but I'll just add my theory to the mix. I found the movie very ironic in two particular instances. Marky Marks chimp Peracules(sp?, sorry)arriving in time to end the battle is brilliant seeing as though he is the culprit of the entire human/ape conflict. I recall after Peracules training mission at the begining of the movie, he is announced to be a new father, having recently succesfully mated with an "aggressive" female, I'm not sure they mentioned the name but I'm guessing the female was/is the infamaous Zemos who was later revealed to be the "aggresive" leader of the rebelion in that static transmission, and the "father of all apes". The fact that this "Father" was actually a mother is great. Therefore I believe that Peracules is the ancient ancestor of Thade, and the cause of the whole conflict. Finnaly in the end did anyone notice that Marky Mark left the backpack of Peracules' behind on POTA with the slave trader, as I recall the contents of the bag had a gun and the homing device thing that acted as a key to the Oberon. So in theory couldn't the contents of the bag be sold off..fall into the wrong hands...used to free Thade ect...I loved the ending...Marky Mark finds himself in a world in which Thade is honored for essentially doing for apes what he had just done for humans...

  • July 30, 2001, 2:39 p.m. CST

    POTA ending....another theory

    by t31luu

    Maybe someone else posted it earlier but I'll just add my theory to the mix. I found the movie very ironic in two particular instances. Marky Marks chimp Peracules(sp?, sorry)arriving in time to end the battle is brilliant seeing as though he is the culprit of the entire human/ape conflict. I recall after Peracules training mission at the begining of the movie, he is announced to be a new father, having recently succesfully mated with an "aggressive" female, I'm not sure they mentioned the name but I'm guessing the female was/is the infamaous Zemos who was later revealed to be the "aggresive" leader of the rebelion in that static transmission, and the "father of all apes". The fact that this "Father" was actually a mother is great. Therefore I believe that Peracules is the ancient ancestor of Thade, and the cause of the whole conflict. Finnaly in the end did anyone notice that Marky Mark left the backpack of Peracules' behind on POTA with the slave trader, as I recall the contents of the bag had a gun and the homing device thing that acted as a key to the Oberon. So in theory couldn't the contents of the bag be sold off..fall into the wrong hands...used to free Thade ect...I loved the ending...Marky Mark finds himself in a world in which Thade is honored for essentially doing for apes what he had just done for humans...

  • July 30, 2001, 3:10 p.m. CST

    Moons? So what?

    by Marcee

    Everyone keeps denying that POTA was really Earth (even though that's the only theory that makes the least bit of sense). The main arguement against this theory is that POTA has two moons...did it occur to anyone that thousands upon thousands upon thousands of years ago (when Leo landed there) - the Earth DID have two moons? Maybe one moon was destroyed in a meteor shower, maybe it got bumped out of the Earth's gravity pull. Who knows? Maybe that was just a red herring to throw us off! Maybe it wasn't even two moons! Grrr. -- Marcee

  • July 30, 2001, 4:35 p.m. CST

    this movie was trash

    by sholehvar

    I can't believe anyone is so stupid as to like this movie even a little. Talk about paint by numbers. Anyone, even the makeup guys, should be embarassed to be associated the a turd like this one. Of course, the people on this board who liked it, clearly lack the reasoning ability to accurately discern the difference between breakfast cereal, much less between movies. If Harry (perhaps the Internet's worst writer) focused on scoops and left the reviewing to the literate, movies like POTA wouldn't make millions in their opening weekend and the collective IQ of our society wouldn't be declining quite so precipitously.

  • July 30, 2001, 5:04 p.m. CST

    Ape Memorial

    by schulzrj

    I thought that the ships clock at the end was going back in time so I did not get the ending for what it was suppose to be. Not the suprise ending that I had hoped for

  • July 30, 2001, 5:12 p.m. CST

    POTA = Monkey$h@t!

    by GornPirate

    That ending was lamer than a no legged monkey passed out from a baboon butt sniffing overdose.

  • July 30, 2001, 6:09 p.m. CST

    Undeniable proof it was Earth

    by Tempo89

    The Oberon crew is recieving every broadcast ever sent form earth due to the storm, correct? Just before Marky-Mark vanishes in the storm, they recieve a mayday signal, which we later realize is their own, beamed from a past earth. Yes, the clock said he was going into the future, but the crew also said all the digital clocks were messed up by the storm. I refuse to believe two lines of dialouge that were so awkwardly placed in the scene were completely useless to the plot. Marky-Mark was sent to the past and returned to find hhis Earth ruled by apes. Damn them all to hell.

  • July 30, 2001, 6:10 p.m. CST

    Dammit, POTA being Earth doesn't work even with the moon crashin

    by DomisInnerChild

    Remember, Marky Mark went BACK in time. Tim Roth wouldn't be born for a couple of hundred years (given, it could be his great, great, great grandfather as Ape Lincoln, but still silly). They made such a big deal about the apes having trouble with technology that it would make no sense that they would first DEVELOP technology identical to humans in the 90's, abandon it, and then forget about it over the course of a couple of hundred years. It's a dumb ending and calling it "intentially not making sense" is freaking lame. So you want the public to think about how crappy an ending you made for a couple of weeks? Wow, that's thought provoking. Maybe that's what Costner was shooting for in his appearantly misunderstood Waterworld too.

  • July 30, 2001, 6:11 p.m. CST

    No dumb fucks including Harry got the Ending....

    by Shuvo

    Well....first of all it wasn't Earth, cause when Marky Mark was leaving at the end, did you happen to notice the landsacpe of the planet, it was nothing like Earth, and when he went back through the time thingee, they showed in the pod display the year which was back in 2039 or 2100 something.....and the human on that planet are desendents of the crue from oberon...and also there were two moons/suns.....you idiots are no better then apes......btw...the movie sucked....

  • July 30, 2001, 6:12 p.m. CST

    No dumb fucks including Harry got the Ending....

    by Shuvo

    Well....first of all it wasn't Earth, cause when Marky Mark was leaving at the end, did you happen to notice the landsacpe of the planet, it was nothing like Earth, and when he went back through the time thingee, they showed in the pod display the year which was back in 2039 or 2100 something.....and the human on that planet are desendents of the crue from oberon...and also there were two moons/suns.....you idiots are no better then apes......btw...the movie sucked....

  • July 30, 2001, 6:19 p.m. CST

    Original Novel's Ending

    by Penter

    Man this talkback is so damn long nobody will bother to read my post. Forgive me if someone already said this. Okay; In Pierre Boulle's Novel it's pretty straight forward. Earth and the POTA are separate planets which happen to be very very far apart. Because of the long distance between them, it takes an eon to get from one to the other. By the time our hero crashes on the POTA, has his adventure, makes friends with the apes, leaves and gets back to Earth, everything has changed. Earth has gone monkey! The ending in the book is exactly the same as the new movie! The differences are that Marky is a Frenchman and he lands to the foot of the Eiffel Tower rather than the Lincoln Memorial. Its up to you as to why the earth apes are now running things, but that it took a long time is understood. I felt the book's implication was that the ape succession was simply a matter of time. Just as the amoebas, fish, and dinosaurs had their turn on top, so did we and so will the apes. (Cue Ominous music!) One other thing: The Movie's Founding ape's name was "SEMOS" That's "MOSES" spelled backward! Get it?

  • July 30, 2001, 6:24 p.m. CST

    Original Novel's Ending

    by Penter

    Man this talkback is so damn long nobody will bother to read my post. Forgive me if someone already said this. Okay; In Pierre Boulle's Novel it's pretty straight forward. Earth and the POTA are separate planets which happen to be very very far apart. Because of the long distance between them, it takes an eon to get from one to the other. By the time our hero crashes on the POTA, has his adventure, makes friends with the apes, leaves and gets back to Earth, everything has changed. Earth has gone monkey! The ending in the book is exactly the same as the new movie! The differences are that Marky is a Frenchman and he lands to the foot of the Eiffel Tower rather than the Lincoln Memorial. Its up to you as to why the earth apes are now running things, but that it took a long time is understood. I felt the book's implication was that the ape succession was simply a matter of time. Just as the amoebas, fish, and dinosaurs had their turn on top, so did we and so will the apes. (Cue Ominous music!) One other thing: The Movie's Founding ape's name was "SEMOS" That's "MOSES" spelled backward! Get it?

  • July 30, 2001, 7 p.m. CST

    Hollywood is feeding you crap and you're thanking them for it

    by TikiMaster

    The script for SIXTH SENSE made me, as a viewer, work. MATRIX made me work. I worked on MEMENTO for two weeks! But there was a difference: I wasn't asked to do the SCREENWRITER's work. Darth Shithead's explanation (below) sounds horrificly plausible. Doesn't anybody feel the least bit insulted at paying $8 to see work produced by alleged proffessionals with no thought put into it? People on this board have put more thought into the ending than the filmmakers did. Forget the horrible ending. How about the scene where Helena Bonam Carter's character is branded by Thade? How did she get back across the water? Why did Thade, a military officer, have the brand of a slave trader laying in his fire in his tent in a military encampment? The answer is, they wanted her character to have a brand on her hand and they couldn't think of a logical way to make it happen. That's called bad screenwriting. Even in a "popcorn movie." Invoking the campy sequels of the original is hardly a justification for this film's condiscening sloppiness. This film was an A film with an A+ budget. DEMAND BETTER!

  • July 30, 2001, 7:19 p.m. CST

    Let me take a stab at some stuff

    by Genus49

    Ok I read some of these things before I watched the movie. And because I promised two different people. I went to see the movie twice. I actually enjoyed everything except the cursed ending. But I do have some stuff that I think could help shine some light on some theories presented here. 1.I think Thade and Cirus are related to Pereclies(Mark's monkey)-my reason for this is simple, they are all chimps, and at the beginning of the movie they say that Pereclies is about to be a father, I doubt they would mention that unless they were hinting at something. Also if you look at the picture that Attar is worshiping it shows a chimp in an oval like thing in the sky...resembling the space pod. So because Pereclies knew how to fly a space pod, its quite possible that Thade a decendant of his, also has that knowledge just somewhere deep inside his head. So if by some reason he did get out, he would know how to fly the thing back to earth. 2.Everyone saying that you can't trust the clock in his pod are stupid. Obviously you can, that's what its for to show the progression of time. If they didn't want us to know what time period he was in they wouldn't have shown the clock to begin with. 3.Obviously Thade must know something about human technology. I haven't really seen too many people adress the fact that he killed those 2 gorillas so they wouldn't tell anyone else about the shipwreck. He must've known something was up otherwise he wouldn't hide it. Somehow I think that action will be adressed in the sequal. If not then its a stupid waste of money and time to film that shot and not do anything with it. Now I also have some questions. How the hell could Thade have gotten out? The only way to open that door would be to get a hand from one of the crew members...unless Pereclies' hand could work to open the door. And then there's that stupid water thing, how could Thade get the pod out of the water, or do anything with the pod if monkeys are terrified of water? Anyway I just wanted to throw some of this stuff out there, maybe something i said will help another person figure out what the hell happened at the end. Because i sure as hell can't explain how he got out and came to earth. But if he did get out I believe the possible connection to Pereclies might have something to do with him being able to travel to earth.

  • July 30, 2001, 8:05 p.m. CST

    A couple essential points to getting the ending

    by CYBret

    Well, first of all, I haven't really *gotten* the ending yet, but I am working on it and all the time trying to remember that it IS a movie. Having said that, here we go. 1. When Marky Mark went back in time that meant that he had never interacted with the apes and humans and lead the revolt that caused Thade to end up in the monkey cage. Therefore, Marky's monkey could arive on the planet and--because Thade was on the look out for such an occurance, having been warned by his father, apparently--he could have taken the Monkey's ship and headed off to earth to lead an ape revolt on our planet. 2. I believe the key to Thade's motivation and the movement of the whole movie lies in his father's words to him to, "Damn them all to hell." It's not just a campy tip o' the hat to the original to have Heston speak these words. That is exactly what happens at the end after Marky Mark has gone--or never arrived--and Thade is free to reign.

  • July 30, 2001, 8:57 p.m. CST

    THE PHANTOM MENACE SYNDROME

    by DEVO

    Have you noticed the similarities: 1. A weak screenplay (probably written over the weekend) 2. A leading actor who's flat and uninteresting. 3. A female model/actress who's flat and uninteresting. 4. A director who's head is so far up his ass that he doesn't realize how shitty his movie really is. 5. The use of pop culture terminology in an unworldy setting. ("Can't we all just, get along?") 6. Toys made by Hasbro. 7. Cool trailers. However, when you finally see the movie, you realize how out of context the clips really are. (i.e. "Bow your head!") 8. A movie hyped up on the FOX Channel. 9. A dumb-downed movie because the average film goers can't think for themselves. 10. An entire generation of pissed off fans who've only been waiting twentysome years for an updated version of a classic sci-fi movie, only to be let down--hard.

  • July 30, 2001, 9:14 p.m. CST

    poa

    by rtavi

    I have read every excuse for the ending and lack of coherency posted by the fanboys here. Son you can't polish a turd. As long as you people are willing to accept this kind of hackwork for scripts you will never get anything better. Just because the ape suits were good does not excuse the total botch of a script. People go read some real science fiction quit accepting this "If it doesnt make any sense it must be really deep crap. They laughed at Newton Columbus and Einstein but they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.

  • July 30, 2001, 9:16 p.m. CST

    In case you give a shit...

    by Bad Guy

    I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the actors (especially Roth, Giamatti and Carter), Rick Baker's make-up, the costumes, the story, special f/x, I even liked the twist ending, which so many of you seem to be having a problem with. What's the big deal? It was earth all along. Is that so hard for you to wrap your little brains around? It was earth all along in the original movie too. Surprise!! Do we need to have everything spelled out for us? And for the record, I'm a big fan of the original. The original had more social commentary and this one was more of an action/adventure flick. Nothing wrong with that. I didn't want it to be exactly like the original. What's the point in that? All in all, one of Burton's best and one of this year's best. Can't wait for the sequel.

  • July 30, 2001, 10:03 p.m. CST

    LEts See Is harry fat or skinny lets find the true ending to tha

    by verntherat

    There is a reason why you HArry dont get laid by drunk chicks. They no there not spose to be operating heavy equimpent while drunk. Any ways maybe that monkey hopped in a space ship and went back in time, but we know that if they could control when there gonna go back in time, Mark would have gone back to the MArky Mark days and relived the glory days.

  • July 30, 2001, 11:05 p.m. CST

    I knew it... it didn't really mean anything.

    by LlGHTST0RMER

    From Dark Horizons, 30/7/2001: "FOX exec Bruce Snyder goes on the record to Zap2It.Com about the ending saying: 'You're not supposed to be able to (explain it). If the truth be known, it wasn't really supposed to make sense. It was just supposed to go 'whoa,' make you think. Now is he in another world, did he go back in time, did he get forward in time? The reality is there's no firm answer to that. It's whatever you want it to be.'" So enough with all the insipid theories involving all the fantastic shit that we may have inferred in our own wild imaginations. It ain't about genetic engineering gone astray. It ain't about Leo warping into some parallel dimension. It's just there to stick a big question mark in your head. Sorry, Harry, but THAT'S Tim Burton for ya.

  • July 31, 2001, 12:16 a.m. CST

    DREAM SEQUENCE

    by samholland

    That explains away the end (which apparantly they admit wasn't supposed to be coherent), and they left plenty open for a sequel. Yes, a dream sequence explanation sucks. But so does Marky Mark. YOU HEAR ME MR. FUNKY??? I said you suck. You want some of me? My real name is Bush and I'm at the white house, lost in its big rooms with shiny, pretty objects. Impersonating the president.... gotta be a crime. Good thing nobody reads these things.

  • July 31, 2001, 6:30 a.m. CST

    back in time, not forwards

    by Inverness

    as far as i could tell, the clock in the pod at the end of the film was counting backwards in time, not forwards as harry suggested. furthermore, the cars, cameras and clothes, along with the fact that washington looks remarkably unchanged from the present, (even the ape statue is exactly the same as the lincoln statue) leads me to think that it was the time travel that fucked everything up, and the earth we see at the end of the film is in fact our present day (or not too far into the future) and it was marky mark's messing around in time that skewed things, kind of like the halloween simpsons where homer builds the time travel toaster... you know what i'm sayin'. how to explain the thade thing? i don't know, but i seriously doubt he figured out how to find and repair a pod and then work out the logistics to the point where he managed to come to earth and singlehandedly rework the planet's history. it took him long enough to figure out how to pull the trigger on a gun, advanced physics seems a little much.

  • July 31, 2001, 7:53 a.m. CST

    You're in denial.

    by ozmodiar

    Stop trying to come up with and elaborate explination for the ending, or even the movie. Accept it, the movie sucks, they made a monkee out of you. The only thing you are doing with all the speculation is giving those lazy fucks at fox a descent script idea for the sequal. p.s. i know i can't spell, their's no need to mention it. Be Well.

  • July 31, 2001, 8:48 a.m. CST

    LEts See Is harry fat or skinny lets find the true ending to tha

    by verntherat

    There is a reason why you HArry dont get laid by drunk chicks. They no there not spose to be operating heavy equimpent while drunk. Any ways maybe that monkey hopped in a space ship and went back in time, but we know that if they could control when there gonna go back in time, Mark would have gone back to the MArky Mark days and relived the glory days.

  • July 31, 2001, 9:55 a.m. CST

    Can't nobody say that I won't take a bite in the ass...

    by Halloween68

    Cause I will this time. Saw POTA this last weekend and so I had to come back and correct myself. I said Burton will never make a bad film as a director and that I can't see anything stifling out the man's style. Correctiong, he just did make a bad one. Reminding me of the Star Wars Wookie Christmas special, although not as entertaining or laughable. What get's me about Burton's films is that they always have a sense of humor in them. They're like a twisted speed boat ride through the Mohavi desert. Spooky funny. But this one just fell flat to me. The characters were flat, the story was flat, the style (yes I said style) was flat. Everybody who did anything in the film just looked like they just came in to do a days monotonous, dry and boring walk through and that was it. There didn't seem to be any heart in any of it. The best thing about the movie was Danny Elfman's soundtrack. Awesome! Other than that, ehhhh... Baker's stuff, as usual was really cool to look at. But I saw it all in the trailer and heck I kinda' liked the masks in the original POTA, so Baker's contributions didn't make the movie for me. But I do have to say, this movie is making tons of money, at least I'm not so sad to think that Burton is getting it. His future projects are being financed. Let's just hope that his head won't swell and he'll think that all he has to do is make half-ass attempts and people will flock to see his movies. 1 out of like, what, 8 or so ain't so bad though. At least Burton didn't produce a For the Love of the Game like Raimi did. Actually looking back for something to compare this film to, someone mentioned how this was Waterworld or Battleship Earth bad, well that's what this movie reminded me of. Hits the nail on the head. POTA is the Waterworld of the year 2001. I do sympathise with what Harry said though about Burton coming in six months into the project and maybe being shorted on the time he could've used to make this a good film. And I do have one major disagreement with you Harry from your above review: The ending to this movie was terrible. It brought us to a alternate dimension conclusion, which the thing about the original ending was that he could never go home, because he was home. Totally blew any symblance to the original movie. If you have to see it, go matinee. If you're Burton fans, go into it thinking of it as a studio contract instead of a Burton project. Hopefully that will justify the failure that is POTA. PS. Walberg's acting fits right in with the plastic, cardboard looking sets: very one-dimensional. And the blond chick's hot; they didn't need lipstick that I guess she stole from the Ape equivalent of Eckerds.

  • July 31, 2001, 10:51 a.m. CST

    Distress Call

    by Tinymogul

    Forgive me in advance, I'm coming in late and haven't read all of the hundreds of posts on this subject. Is it just me, or did the face in the distress call look a little ape-like? Could that be a part of the answer to the Ape Lincoln ending?

  • July 31, 2001, 12:07 p.m. CST

    Suckers

    by frenchieD

  • July 31, 2001, 12:33 p.m. CST

    editing

    by waywardboy

    I go to a film school andhave an assignment for the fall to write about things that tank films with specific examples. the thing that made this planet of the apes so hard to watch and appreciate is the atrociously flat cinematography(the worst day for night i have ever seen), the wavering direction and most especially(sp,whocares)the sloppy as all hell editing. The action scenes are to tight and jagged(a steven seagall fight for example)and the exposition is drawn out and sloppy and just fucking terrible(think patch adams). all of this hindered any kind of acting,pacing,fx believeability,and everything for that matter. And by the way this is the worst film of the year

  • July 31, 2001, 1:09 p.m. CST

    Wake up people

    by mississippibill

    All of you that are trying to make excuses for the ending of this garbage Give Up! You can't polish a turd. There is no continuitiy here. there is no plausible cause and effect. The plot has holes you could throw Kong through and there is no respect for the brains of the audience. The attitude is "We got this huge piece of crap- we have to wind it up before we spend any more money and the rubes expect a twist ending. This has the "Black Hole Syndrome" that is if we make the ending nonsensical the fanboys will assume that its "deep". Son, the emperor gots no threads. Studios consider that if it's SF you can do anything with the plot as long as you have enough special effects and cool make up the yahoos will buy it and the fanboys will make excuses for it. Go read some real SF dealing with time travel and paradoxes like Simak's Time after Time or Mastedonia or Heinlein's By his bootstraps, or Gerrod's The man who folded himself. Or Hell if you can't read rent Millenium, Terminator, Back to the Future or even Timecop or Pal's The Time Machine. At least the plots were coherant. Stop acceptin this crap from the studios-READ

  • July 31, 2001, 1:20 p.m. CST

    All Growl, No Bite

    by ManInBlack

    WEll, just about like all of the other movies in summer 2001, POTA had absolutely no soul. Reminded me of Ep.1 where all the actors hit their marks, said their innocuous lines and moved to the next scene. The story was so paper thin and if this is all Burton could 're-imagine'...Lord, i think about half the ppl in talk back could have come up with a better plot scenario. And god help us if 'Yawnberg' is cast in the lead again. This guy has as much charisma on screen as a bag of dirt. Why not a Russell Crowe type at least that got the audience fired up. Also, I remember as a child watching the original POTA flick and felt absolute fear from the apes. They were menacing and evil. These apes are like a bunch of morons no better than the pig guards in Ep.6. Just so disappointing. Yawnberg's character should have shown some psychological repercussions...like fear in the initial encounter. Put yourself in his shoes, you'd be squirting egg plants. He acted so indifferent like the one dimensional actor that he really is. It would have been so much cooler to leave out the time travel crap and have the lead character just land on a planet of apes. Screw the lame twist ending. I would have preferred a darker psychological/action/sci-fi thriller to this dysfunctional Discovery/Learning/History Channel amalgam of drek. Remember all the chaos the original series had trying to get a sequel going on paper thin premises?...Those who forget history, are damned to repeat it.

  • July 31, 2001, 2:37 p.m. CST

    The ending was a cop out at best.....

    by C_Brenn

    The best case for that ending is that is was simply a cop out. For a movie that had started at one point and really never developed into anything of substance at all. The ending gave them a quick and easy way out of what was obviously a script that lacked in so many ways it isn't even worth the time it would take to outline them all. But at worst, and I really can't see there being any other explanation, the ending was a big FUCK YOU to the audience. It said "we know you are all just a bunch of sheep and when we come calling with the sequel in two years you'll all come running to the slaughter." Harry is right, the make-up was superb. But is that really how low our standards have dropped? Do we go to movies to be fascinated by efx alone? I sure don't. I want to be entertained on a number of different levels when I watch a film. Visual stimulation is fine to a point but it better make me think or it's not likely to work for me. That is why Jurrasic Park 1 was something I will always remember with fondness. I really had never seen efx like that before. So for all it's lacking of story and what not, it still had me thinking, "God, how did they do that?" But by JP3, I really didn't give a shit anymore. I see raptors in the JP movies and in that God awful Godzilla movie and think, "Gee, it's not like I haven't seen all this before." POTA, for all the wonderful makeup didn't even carry that fascination for me. I really would have chucked the makeup all together for any sembalance of a real story with an ounce of character development. But twernt nun 'o that round these here parts. The ending to me said that somewhere along the line someone had gotten ahold of this thing and made things drastically worse. When you spend and hour and a half shitting on someone's lawn you generally don't turn around as you are leaving and tell them to clean it up. And Harry, this was no fascinating twist. Not by any stretch of the imagination. It was Back to the Future Two, where you invest the time watching it only to be told at the end that this isn't the movie where they are really going to tell you what happens. No, you have to come back and fork over your cash to take another shot at getting those answers. Leave the ending open ended, fine. But not like that. Standards for the movie going public must really have fallen if this is acceptable. I mean the best movie I have seen thus far this summer was The Score and that wasn't really all that great either. It just had superior acting in it to save what was pretty much a rehash. I don't think it is too much to ask for a movie to combine elements of story-telling, character development and special effects/explosions. Please, someone make something worth watching.

  • July 31, 2001, 3 p.m. CST

    A question posed to the viewing public that liked POTA...

    by Halloween68

    So, hey, I'm just curious. Why do so many people like this movie? I haven't read through all the talkback, but I know from asking around that a general consensus of it was pretty good. Why? Anybody offer an answer. I'm a big Burton fan, and I'm a big fan of the original Apes movie. Knowing both, this could and should have been so much better. But maybe I'm partial and I'm not looking at the film in the full light. Didn't like the film at all. I thought it was flat and soulless. Nothing to it except the music. Elfman did a great job with the score. And again, I actually kinda' liked the original ape masks, so Baker's effects (as great as they were) didn't really carry the movie for me. Is that what it is, the makeup effects? I'm genuinly puzzled here. Why do so many people like this film.

  • July 31, 2001, 4:06 p.m. CST

    "A planet where apes evolve from men..."

    by Eddie Poe

    A second screening only strengthened my initial perception: PLANET OF THE APES rules (to coin a phrase). There are flaws, to be sure- but the overall impression is a positive one. The concepts begger rumination. In effect, one can't help but be reminded of another classic: THE WIZARD OF OZ. The scene where the ape army mobilizes echoes a similar scene in OZ, and the magnificent sets and (cgi?) establishing shots of Ape City are breathtaking. And, lest one forget: those fantastic makeups BREATHE. Can't wait to see it again...

  • July 31, 2001, 4:22 p.m. CST

    This movie almost put me to sleep

    by Mostroid

    The movie was really boring. I think that special-effects movies are basically made for very young kids and they spend so much time on demographics and test-marketing that the whole project gets blanded out and dumbed down so by the time it hits the theaters, whatever originality it ever had has been squashed out of it. The ending was very predictable, I didn't care about any of the characters, and I was basically waiting for the whole thing to end. The acting was good, Tim Roth did the best he could, Mark Wahlberg tried to do a Harrison Ford emotionless/intense performance, and the makeup was pretty good but I don't see why Harry is so ecstatic about how great it is. They looked like apes. Wow... Anyway, I pity the kids growing up nowadays, since the special effects movies have lost any originality they used to have (like Star Wars) and are now basically marketing gimmicks to sell products.

  • July 31, 2001, 7:59 p.m. CST

    POTA- Harry Knows

    by WizardLaz

    All right, first of all, I agree with Harry. The makeup was awesome. Sure the apes looked like apes- but unless I'm missing something- isn't that waht they're supposed to look like?! They made humans into apes! ...Cool... Of course the moie wasn't the best I've seen, but without the endig it wouldn't have been much. The ending really does make you think. How did Thade get to earth? He could have somehow flown the Oberon back- but without fuel? Maybe he got out- but to do that he needs person who worked on the Oberon's handprint. Assuming there might have been a self-triggering-opening device in the front of the Oberon (very possible), how could he overcome his fear of water to gt back Mark Whalberg's ship? Sure, Ape-chick overcame her fears in about a minute- but wouldn't the pod's electric shtuff be kind of destroyed in the water? Go figure, (I could go on an on) the talkbacker (Darth Shithead) who said there is no answer because a fox executive said it is bs. I agree there may be no answer- but a fox executive saying it- my arse. Then te whole percilus (pod-driving monkey)being worshipped and somehow giving birth to seemoose is probable, but the truth is-I'll wait for the sequel and find out the answer- and I'll probably be there opening day.

  • July 31, 2001, 8:27 p.m. CST

    POTA is the FUTURE!!!!

    by samboe25

    Ok, here is my spin on this ending. So many people on this board have been close, but I think you are missing a few key points. POTA is earth of the FUTURE. But it is more likely a post-apocyliptic earth. Mass destruction would account for the fear and averstion to technology and the "getting back to roots" lifestyle that the apes have adopted (Also accounts for the change in the planet's appearence when Leo leaves). Since the space station (part of the original reality) crashed many many years (perhaps eons) ago and altered history, and Leo lands on this altered timeline, all he can go back to is an altered past, not the past that he knows. When he reaches Washington, things are the same because millions of years of human evolution happened, except it was done by the apes, (Perhaps this is a Burton statement about something?) resulting in the same history and same ideas. Also, the movie says that Thade and his family are direct decendents of the original rebellious ape. Maybe through history they have been an iluminati of some sorts that knows the true history, but keeps it from the masses, and thus is always in power. The "ape"-lincoln statue was then a ancestor of the Thade that we saw in the movie. Works for me...

  • I think that your ending would have been great, however I don't think it was what the director intended because Ape Lincoln is none other that our old pal General Thade (his name clearly set in stone, behind the statue). Good review, by the way, thank you for all the spoiler warnings. I went to see the movie last night, almost a week after it opened, and none of it was spoiled (at least not from previous information). I thought it was pretty poor, the pacing was horrible (think of how much poor Marky Mark had to do each day!). There was no time for any relationships to develop between the characters, so I didn't understand why any of them would care about each other at all.

  • Aug. 1, 2001, 9:46 a.m. CST

    Rename Thade/Lincoln statue to "Cornelius" or "Caeser"

    by badmovifan

    I wonder what would have happened if Burton had decided to use Cornelius or perhaps Caeser as the name on the Lincoln statue? It might have given things a little bit more of a twist and in the process maybe given more of a nod to the original films.

  • Aug. 1, 2001, 9:51 a.m. CST

    the ending to "Planet of the Apes" did make sense

    by marcistotle

    First I would like to start off by saying, what a totally kick ass movie "Planet of the Apes" was. Everyone is saying the ending didn't make any sense, there are alot of possible assumptions, but I think that when Mark used the space capsule to go thru the electro magnetic field the second time, he went to the same earth, but in an alternate universe, kinda like a skew occured in the time line, when he went to the planet of the apes. Hence returning to the same earth, but just in a parallel universe, similar to all that nonsense Trunks was talking about in Dragon Ball Z when he was fighting the androids. One last thing, everyone is saying that the ending was crap, and Hollywood is screwing us again, and all this other bs nonsense. "Planet of the Apes" was a remarkable movie, with a great cast, fantastic dialogue, an amazing script, and it was just as good as the original in every way. The ending really did make sense. Wasn't it enough that the movie kicked ass, now Hollywood has to come to your house and explain to you a viable explanation of the ending of their movies too. If you want that, let's talk about movies that really did suck the tank, like Jurassic Park 3, what did they just run out of money, so the movie just decided to end. Anyway I don't want to rant, this is only my opinion of the whole matter, respect mine and I'll respect yours, thanks.

  • Aug. 1, 2001, 12:43 p.m. CST

    My POTA Ending Evaluation is butter, check it out

    by marcistotle

    Oh snap, I just thought of this myself, through the entire movie, Leo Davidson was on planet Earth. So the Planet of the Apes was Earth. Okay, the first loop hole is that it could not have been Earth, because there were two moons present on the Planet of the Apes. Very true, but in our history we supposedly had more than one satelite, which would explain the extra moon. It even could've been a meteor, the apes didn't exactly have technological means of knowing what the hell it was, so that is also plausible. And, does anyone not remember, that in the first Planet of the Apes movie, there was a lightning storm, without a storm cloud in the sky. At that point Charleston Heston declared that there was no way that the planet they were on could have been Earth with such strange activity. He even made notes about the terrain, saying that it did not resemble Earth at all, but what do we find out at the end of that movie, that the Planet of the Apes was Earth all along. So yeah, Tim Burton can throw in another moon if he wants to just to play with your noodle, no problem. So when Leo Davidson left the Planet of the Apes (the Earth of the past) to return to his world, Thade got out of the Oberon, and regained control of his army. You have to admit that they (the apes) gave up pretty damn quick. Seriously, the apes had this hatred for humans, it's not going to take thirty seconds, which is how long it took, for them to just go "oh okay, humans are cool now." Even when Abraham Lincoln passed the Emancipation of Proclamation, blacks still were perceived as being inferior to the white man. When the slaves were freed, there wasn't an immediate, "oh yeah, blacks are cool now" notion, it took many years for the black man to achieve the same rights as the white man. So Thade regains control of his army, and fucks a super hole in the entire human race. Plus he had that super plasma death ray gun from hell, which would make the fight all that much more easy. Then he figures like his father told him before he died, that if they (the apes) want to stay in control, they must evolve with technology. Their strength is rocking, but they have to have technology on their side to ensure that they don't get over thrown...EVER. So what do they do? They use the files on Oberon ( I mean come on, the Oberon had everything on record, the hard part is already done, all the apes had to do, was get the ball rolling), and recreate our contemporary Earth, exactly how humans did in the future. The only thing is, the apes have already laid the smacketh down on the humans candy asses, so they're already out of the way. I know what you're thinking now. In Leo's time, he had hella cool technology, Washington DC sure did look pretty damn contemporary. Well even with the extensive files on the Oberon of human technological advances, it still took the apes a considerable amount of time to recreate all that nonsense. So either the apes were just slow getting everything set up, or maybe they chose a more laid back 2000 look. And even still, keeping with the 2000 time period may have been exactly what they intended to do, because if they were to recreate Leo's future, then they might one day return to the Earth of the past, and accidentally screw up there past like Leo did. So in conclusion just to be an ass hole, Thade recreates the Lincoln Memorial, with slight alterations, because he knew that in the future, Leo would return to the apes version of our contemporary Earth, and be in a world of shit. So through the entire movie Leo was on Earth, when he went through the electromagnetic wave at the end of the movie, it just bounced him back, only at a much later date. And booyah, there it is. So where will the sequel take off, Leo Davidson gets help from a caring ape that helps him to escape from jail, reconstructs the space capsule, and returns to The Planet of the Apes. What will the sequel be called...of course, either, "Return to The Planet of the Apes," or "The Fight for The Planet of the Apes." What will the catch line be...Leo is pissed, and he wants revenge. That's the best I can do.

  • Aug. 1, 2001, 12:48 p.m. CST

    Flight

    by kittycat

    Anybody notice what a bad pilot Leo was? He crashed not one, but two space pods. One of which a trained monkey landed quite nicely. (Damn it man, he's a scientist, not a pilot!) Why did Tim Roth constantly sound like he was out of breath? All that jumping about? Yeah, the makeup was great, chilling even, but it was not great enough to make up for yet another boring, badly written movie.

  • Aug. 1, 2001, 4:18 p.m. CST

    Not sure about something...

    by ewem

    I would have loved this ending and I like it as is...except the movie seems to defy its own logic. Here's what I don't get. At the beginning of the movie he is thrown several hundred years or so into the future. We see a shot of the chronometer going forward really fast. Then, the rest of the movie occurs at that point in time on this planet. This planet is NOT Earth! That's all good and fine. Now he takes off again and we see the chronometer go BACKWARDS again. He comes out over the Earth! So...not only has he traversed time but distance as well! This being sci-fi THAT"s all good and fine. But how in the hell...if he is in the PAST...do we see the image of Thane and the Apes ruling the Earth? If he had gone even more forward in time or something...I wouldn't have even blinked twice. But the fact that he went back in time again throws everything to hell! Would someone please help me with this?

  • Aug. 1, 2001, 4:24 p.m. CST

    Hey, Poxy...

    by ewem

    Poxy Von Sinister! I like your theory about this ending. I like it so much that in fact I think I will adopt it myself with some hesitation though. Here's why:The Oberon remanants had already been completely depleted of fuel thanks to the fight. Secondly...the Oberon itself was damaged and old from the crash and having rotten for several hundred years. Thirdly, Thane fired off that gun a bunch of times in the bridge and caused even MORE damage. Finally...to the best of our knowledge...there were no more pods around there and Thane was locked in the bridge. Assuming that all was well with the folks that Wahlberg left behind, even if Thane somehow escaped and took some Apes with him...there was no technology left that would have been able to send him up into space and back in time. What do you all think?

  • Aug. 1, 2001, 5:17 p.m. CST

    Like all Burton films....turn brain off!!

    by Darko Kerim

    Turn the brain off folks!! Forget about the impossiblities of eveolution in just a few hundred years or so. Even in a thousand years, no species advances that much. Forget about time travel. Forget that the ending seemed to be added at the last moment for whatever reason. Like most of his films, "Apes" was still fun to "look at", and not to be thought about. Wahlberg was blah at best. Tim Roth...OUTSTANDING. Bonham-Carter was decent, but that was all her role allowed her to be. Finally, I don't think Burton ever intended for us to think this all took place on Earth. Once we saw the 2 suns, we knew differently.

  • Aug. 1, 2001, 5:44 p.m. CST

    alternative ending

    by tjg1002

    Having seen the film last night thought I'd look to see if anyone understood the ending ... glad to see that it's not just that I'm stupid but that the ending really does make no sense. Before I go any further, the guy who thinks "SEMOS" is "MOSES" backwards needs to have a sit down with a pencil and paper. So anyway, obviously there had to be some sort of twist at the end, so what else could it have been? Here's something I thought of which I thought was pretty cool and I wanted to get it off my chest. So the battle ends as normal with Thade getting locked up and Marky making his farewells and gets in his pod and off he goes. But on the way to the electrical storm (which is curiously still there, nevermind) he changes his mind, realises that his ship has crashed anyway, and perhaps thinks that he quite fancies Estella Warren. This would be plausible to say the least. So he turns round and goes back, but not before he gets near enough to the storm for it to screw around with his body clock (imagine the jetlag you must get in one of those things). So he lands, at some stage in the future, only to find (at some time in the future) that the humans have subjugated the apes - led by the Estella Warren character who was pissed off because she thought that Marky fancied sexy simian Helena Bonham-Carter more than her own good self. Well, I thought it would have been better than the tripe we got served with.

  • Aug. 1, 2001, 7:11 p.m. CST

    Remember this?

    by otcconan

    I was thinking today that at the beginning of the film it is mentioned Pericles is about to become a father. I think this line will have future importance for a sequel... See, I think that Ari is one of Peri's descendents...

  • Aug. 1, 2001, 7:21 p.m. CST

    One thing nobody has brought up...and I'm a little suprised

    by dynamojr

    I'm going to get into spoilers here but since you've read this talkback this far without checking out the movie then I'm afraid you're screwed. First of all, I'm going to put myself in the "plus" column on this movie. While I did have issues here and there about this film, overall I have to say it was a great movie. I even dug the ending. Someone mentioned that Thade would have no way out of the bridge. This might not be the case. Remember, Thade was the direct descendent of Simos and would have retained some of the DNA information. My feeling is that in the sequel (and there will be one), we will find out that Semos and his descendents were the only ones to know of advanced technology and the knowledge to use it possibly to retain power. The Semos religion also explains why chimps in this movie seemed to be the ruling class while gorrillas were the working class. Now there is one aspect I found a little unbelievable. That is the fact that these apes were physically able to speak. If there were a society of advanced apes, they would have an advanced signing language since they didn't have the physical capability to talk like we do. But since these are genetically engineered apes with possible human DNA mixed in then I'll let that pass. One thing I'll give this movie and even you TB'rs who hated this movie have to admit this is that Burton's version had a

  • Aug. 1, 2001, 7:27 p.m. CST

    finishing my thought

    by dynamojr

    As I was saying, Burton's version had a MUCH BETTER origin story than the original movies. I could actually see how a Planet of the Apes could come about in this case. Not so with the later Apes movies-cats and dogs die, Apes evolve millions of years in 2 decades time. This one makes a helluva lot of sense now does it?

  • Aug. 1, 2001, 7:43 p.m. CST

    watching paint dry more exciting

    by GW

    I hoped against hope the rumors were wrong, that Burton would pull off the blockbuster of the summer. I was wrong. First, two good points. Nice makeup. Nice ape motion. That's it. There isn't really a movie here. There are shots strung together. Scenes that really don't follow scenes. No emotion. No suspense. No pacing. No excitement. No action. No humor. (Attempted yes, successful, no). Unsuccessful cynicism. Unsuccessful parody. No logic. No characterization or development. No plot development. Boring. Boy this movie racks up as a litany of failures. Do these writers in Hollywood have a clue how to write a script anymore or are commitee writing and coke just too popular? And about the good points. I'm glad that the makeup is great. Im impressed. Really. But why the exact same camera sequence and lighting on Tim Roth in every closeup, over and over again? It looks like they did all his major lines in front of a blue screen and added backgrounds afterwards. Yes, his makeup allows him great facial articulation, but does it have to be the only reason for the shot? There has to be a better reason for the existance of this remake that to show off the improved makeup? Unfortunately there isn't Sorry Harry, this ones a stinker. Another reviewer used the term vacuous. Dead right. Watching paint dry is more exciting than this drivel. Hell, staying in the washroom or the popcorn line would be more rewarding. Only rent this sucker if you need a cure for insomnia.

  • Aug. 1, 2001, 8:03 p.m. CST

    I have the TRUTH TO THE ENDING

    by You Ate Sand?

    Alright, some are saying that it is merely a parallel Earth that we see at the very end. This is not possible on several accounts. Most notably is that logically, a parallel Earth wouldn't progress the way our Earth would (it's be like asking two guys to go in different rooms and build something with legos, and expecting what they build to be the same) It's just not logistically possible that two different Earths, although with the same resources, would wind up looking exactly the same (Washington). Now, this movie is hardly logical, so another reason this is not possible is because what are the chances of Thade leaving POTA and landing on a parallel earth, and marky mark landing on the same parallel earth? It's just not probable. Here's what we know: We know that the final Earth is somehow influenced by THE Thade. We also know that the POTA is NOT Earth because of the two suns. Now, to explain what really happend, we have to look at what the story/Burton supplies us: We have Thade still alive, we have that one ape tell Marky Mark that "He'll never stop chasing you" we have Thade with the weapon, we

  • Aug. 1, 2001, 8:07 p.m. CST

    I have the TRUTH TO THE ENDING

    by You Ate Sand?

    Alright, some are saying that it is merely a parallel Earth that we see at the very end. This is not possible on several accounts. Most notably is that logically, a parallel Earth wouldn't progress the way our Earth would (it's be like asking two guys to go in different rooms and build something with legos, and expecting what they build to be the same) It's just not logistically possible that two different Earths, although with the same resources, would wind up looking exactly the same (Washington). Now, this movie is hardly logical, so another reason this is not possible is because what are the chances of Thade leaving POTA and landing on a parallel earth, and marky mark landing on the same parallel earth? It's just not probable. Here's what we know: We know that the final Earth is somehow influenced by THE Thade. We also know that the POTA is NOT Earth because of the two suns. Now, to explain what really happend, we have to look at what the story/Burton supplies us: We have Thade still alive, we have that one ape tell Marky Mark that "He'll never stop chasing you" we have Thade with the weapon, we have Marky Mark leaving the Percules behind. So now Thade is stuck on POTA with a ship, a weapon, and Percules. So he now has the means to travel and the means, using the ships logs, to recreate Washington. Now what I still don't understand, is how the crew of the Oberon recieved the SOS call from the Oberon of the past, can someone explain that?

  • Aug. 1, 2001, 8:25 p.m. CST

    WHOA JUST REALIZED SOMETHING ABOUT THE ENDING

    by You Ate Sand?

    Alright, at the very first when the Oberon is recieving "All broadcasts in the history of Earth", well, after that, they recieve that SOS from the planet, well that SOS is another broadcast from the history of EARTH, they crash landed on EARTH. Whew.

  • Aug. 1, 2001, 8:31 p.m. CST

    Three planetary bodies visible near POTA

    by DarkMuppet

    Go to http://www.apple.com/trailers/fox/planet_of_the_apes/ Watch the trailer. When Marky Mark lands, there appear to be three moons around the POTA. The biggest one even looks like it has an atmosphere. THIS CAN'T BE EARTH. The theory about earth having another moon refers to one in a distant orbit and probably no bigger than the one we still have. If something happened to a moon of that size and proximity aka it was knocked out of orbit, I think that the gravitational effects of such an event would have caused a big enough catastrophe that it probably would have wiped out the people/apes on the planet. So if you still think that POTA = Earth then perhaps you believe that Thade escaped the Oberron and blew up two moons with his pistol. After all that wouldn't be inconsistent with the variable destructive force of that gun.

  • Aug. 1, 2001, 9:30 p.m. CST

    Where can I find this Drudge Review?

    by You Ate Sand?

    I've been all over Drudge Report.com and couldn't find any POTA review, anyone have some linkage?

  • Aug. 1, 2001, 9:37 p.m. CST

    Some Words of Advice....

    by Turn_N_Burn

    ... to all of you anal mutherfuckers; more thought, and less vitriol. "..Movie was shit..." "Original was better..." "Burton sucks.." "...ending doesn't make sense..." blah-blah Blah! You didn't like the film? Fine! I dug it, and since it was SCIENCE-FICTION I let some stuff slide, like......oh......Giant talking apes. Tim Burton, Like any other director (read: paid employee) is afforded some freedom in how he does his job, but is still beholden to his employer's wishes.. Anybody noticed the product placement in the film? Any of you really believe Tim really wanted to use that same "damn them all..." line from the first film in his remake? Don't remember any "nods" to the Batman TV show in the Batman film.. Do you? I got news for you like most scifi fans I to have/liked the original film (even watched last Sunday) and looking at the original I realized that if it were made now, it would be just as lame. Just because humans distroyed the world, doesn't mean we'd revert to cave men. In the time it took for apes to evolve, mankind's survivors would evolve too(slower than before but still). Leave the past in the past, You are older and wiser(some of you, anyway) now the feelings you have for the old movies are linked to how you experienced them. As for the ending, uhm, remember how the first movie had a plot twist? Well there you go... on a related point, why should Burton have done a remake? I don't know about the rest of you but what endeared the film to me was the fact that when I first saw it and the ending, is surprised me! How would you have been impressed/surprised by this film if it followed the plot and ended like the original? Someone even complained about how the apes sound. Uhm, when you find a real ape that talks let me know and we can compare. One of the draws of this film is the very fact the crew went to great lengths to show talking apes NOT people in ape costumes. I'm pretty sure that if you have you jaws built up to resemble monkey and have you lips contorted to resemble those of a monkey, you might just sound the way a monkey could sound if it could talk. Jeez! From some of the blatently hateful comments I've read here, you'd believe that the posters worked on some of the other films that opened(but couldn't compete) with POtA at the box office,--Like that "Julie Roberts" piece of dogshit!

  • My comments: 1)There are 2 different planets. 2)The female ape faces looking weird reflects the manifestation of their human DNA. The male faces all look like real apes. VERY SMART choice. 2) Semos was the son of Pericles. 3) The arrival of Pericles was a play off of Jesus. The entering of the atmosphere by Pericles' ship looks like the Star of Bethlehem. And is also reference to the opening scene of "Escape from..." 4)It had only been 600-1000 years since the mother ship crashed, an homage to the last movie and the TV series were humans could talk but were slaves to the apes. Also, those 2 incarnations were set in California. The 1968 movie and "Beneath..." take place circa A.D. 3952: 1,950 years after the nuclear war, and are within 250 miles of NYC. 5)The space storm/wormhole was the way Cornilius and Zira were transported from "3950-something" back in time to circa 1972. 6)The horses are a cheat. In the Hollywood rules of a genre picture ONE cheat is allowed. 7) Here is the damaging mistake. IMHO an exec (or execs?) at FOX wanted Thade's name on the monument and this was the reason for the reshoots. The original ending hopefully shows the name CEASER. Wahlberg landed on a parallel earth (as in Trek's Mirror Mirror universe/Sliders/Quantum Leap/ST:TNG were Worf leaps around), at the Lincoln Memorial (as in Logan's Run) but on this Monkey Planet the humans did not have the nuclear war (as in Paul Williams' speech about the nature of Time in "Battle for..."**** Now they CAN get out of this in a less convoluted way than some have suggested. Thade arrives on Earth after Ceasar has taken over the complex in "Conquest...", defeats Ceaser and becomes the new ape messiah. After defeating the humans the apes deface the Lincoln Memorial and replace it with Thade's likeness. Mark arrives in 2029, 30 years after Ceasar's/Thade's uprising in "Conquest...". Of course the Fox execs. should have never done the reshoot in the first place but that's Hollywood baby. Admit it, it would have been uber-cool if the THIRD cameo (hey gang, Linda H. was captured in the hunt scene...again) had been Roddy's ape-face staring back at the audience.----later-----m

  • Aug. 1, 2001, 10:32 p.m. CST

    POTA is one helluva movie. it absolutely kicks crazy ass, and if

    by a goonie

    i really will.

  • Aug. 1, 2001, 10:32 p.m. CST

    POTA is one helluva movie. it absolutely kicks crazy ass, and if

    by a goonie

    i really will.

  • Aug. 1, 2001, 11:12 p.m. CST

    i'm back.

    by a goonie

    alrite. i just recently changed my id and my password, so i wasn't sure if it was gonna post and all that and then it did (twice, actually) and so therefore i'm back. whew. i saw Planet of the Apes last nite. it was the longest period of time i've had to wait to see a movie since it's release this whole summer. i really wanted to see it. even my dad (who i normally always see movies with), saw POTA a couple days ago. and he's on the other side of the bloody country, in Newfoundland. where they don't have major multiplexes like we do here. i'm just saying. he actually beat me to it. either way, i've heard mixed response for this movie. mostly okay, liked parts, didn't like others. like Harry. and i start thinking, i'm gonna probably feel the same way. then i think, maybe i'll hate the damn thing. but i never EVER thought i would love the movie in the most crazy insanely cool way. i mean, i came out of this movie, saying to my sister, "It's as though Tim Burton thought, 'I'm going to make this movie just for Aaron.' " And yes, Aaron is me. i loved POTA in a way that is apparently impossible for the majority of viewers out there. i'm sorry. this is Burton at his best. THIS IS A MOVIE FOR THE TIM BURTON FANS OUT THERE. this is a movie for ME. a fan of one of the only directors i know of that can make me smile over the most miniscule crap... and not just that. Burton puts a smile on my face, cuz, cuz, i can't explain it. i think that when i watch one of his movies up there on the big screen, i feel this strange, wierd, CONNECTION to the guy. i feel like we really are thinking on the same WAVELENGTH. which is cool, cuz apparently Burton thinks on a really wierd wavelength. i mean, you see, i have my favourite directors. i will be a director myself one day. directors are the guys i look up to. almost all of my heroes are directors. and my favs are Edward D. Wood, jr., Terry Malick, Paul Verhoeven, Steven Spielberg, Stanley Kubrick (even tho i don't usually consider him one of my ALL-TIME favs, he made 2001 and Dr. Strangelove, which are, without doubt, two of the single greatest motion pictures ever made), and Mr. Tim Burton. And all those guys are VERY different. and all have made awesome movies (i know what you're thinking... and yes, Plan 9 and Bride of the Monster rock). but for me, what i get with Tim, is just plain cool. and this is awesome, cuz this summer, even tho there hasn't been as many great movies as last summer, we've had two of the best movies to come from two (or three, depending on how you look at it) of my fav directors. POTA and A.I. yes, that's rite. i haven't got to say anything on here about A.I., but basically, it's the best movie of the year and i love it to death. but getting back to POTA. talking about that feeling of glee i get from watching a burton movie. that's a good word. glee. i mean, shit, i LOVE everytime that Thade sorta wipes his paw across one of his fellow apes' chests. you know what i'm talking about. i can't explain it better than that. it's just so FUCKING COOL! and Thade, damn, what a fucking villain! the best villain of the whole year! he's the only ape in the whole fucking movie to speak with a HISS! a fucking HISS!!! u know he's the bloody villain just cuz of that hiss!!! and because of Burton, and obviously Roth as well, it completely rocks. well, the point is, i could go on for HOURS and PAGES AND PAGES like this, about how incredible this movie is. that ending. man, i had heard so much stuff about tha twist that i was just about to go and ruin it for myself. i was like, "whatever, i probably won't enjoy it that much anyway, let's just ruin the ending." and i'm so glad i didn't. i like Harry's Rod Serling comment. cuz that's exactly what i said. this is perfectly Twilight Zone. when Leo leaves the planet, i thought, man, i wish he would've stayed. cuz i figured he was gonna go back in time and land on the Oberon and save the day and all that, and then the whole Apes Planet would never happen and all that shit. that would have been sorta disappointing. so as Leo starts floating off thru space at the end, i start thinking, wait a moment, maybe they can take this somewhere else. and then he lands on earth and goes up to the Lincoln monument, and suddenly, i remembered reading something about an Ape's face on the Lincoln monument and such, and then there's that shot of the statue with Thade's face on it, and I LOVED IT!!! just for the imagery, it was nuts!!! there were groans and sighs in the theater, but i was freaking out, cuz i could barely contain the utter coolness of it all!!! and then the cop cars pull up and all that, and i thought, "there's no way this could be cool enuff to have all those cops and witnesses be APES." and then they were. and there's this wide shot of the whole confusing mess with poor Leo, like, what the fuck? and it fades out and the credits roll. man. i practically had an attack. i came out and i literally thought, "i want to marry that movie." well, that's my review. a jumbled one. but that's it. oh, and i forgot to mention that i think Helena Bonham Carter SOOOOOOO deserves an Oscar nod, if not an actual OSCAR, for this performance. it was genius. acting like that behind all that makeup. this wasn't just a good "summer blockbuster" performance. this was a knock-out dramatic performance, all round. period.

  • Aug. 1, 2001, 11:40 p.m. CST

    Many of you are giving the writers WAY too much credit

    by mr.crave

    An intellectual puzzle for an ending? I can't imagine that the morons that wrote this drivel are capable of anything remotely as clever as some of the explanations I've seen posted here (how can it be Earth? Doesn't he fly by Saturn on his way back in?) This entire film was a hurried exercise in trying to set up a sequel. "All will be explained in the sequel" the studio execs will pronounce before going back and counting their box office receipts. There wasn't a single scene in this film that didn't demand my complete suspension of disbelief. I haven't seen a script with this much contempt for the average moviegoer since Alec Baldwin opened his mouth in Pearl Harbor. We are repeatedly asked to ignore large plot holes, irrational and unmotivated actions by characters, and terrible dialogue (some of which they actually put in the trailer). It starts to go bad when Wahlberg jumps in his pod and races out to follow the monkey into the time storm (how contrived is that?). LOVE that chronometer - very convenient (good thing it was Y3K compliant). It never really stops being bad after that. Fortunately Wahlberg's character only takes about two days to fight a war between the human and the apes, completely change the apes' attitudes toward humans, and disprove the apes' fundamental religious beliefs. Actually this all happens in the last 30 minutes of the 48 hours he spends on the POTA (played out in real time on the screen). In reality most of these events are driven less by Wahlberg's character and more by a chimp conveniently landing a pod in the middle of the battle. Some more "highlights": The escape sequence at the beginning of the film was bizarre. Our cast conveniently runs through the homes of all the important ape characters like something out of an old Marx Brothers movie. In the end they are spotted running into a secret passage and an entire legion of apes standing 10 yards away decides not to follow them. As an added bonus, Kris Krisofferson boldly sacrifices himself for no apparent reason. Did the script writers really think that riding through the ape camp, lighting tents on fire was a good idea for an "action sequence"? Good thing apes haven't mastered boats or flotation devices. Calima? When did this get named? Apparently AFTER apes were able to read but BEFORE they were smart enough to realize half the sign was covered in dirt (but long enough AFTER the ship crashed that the sign gets covered in dirt). Star Trek did it best with "V-ger", somebody needs to tell scriptwriters that the misinterpreted name cliche is getting VERY VERY tired. Is anyone surprised by these anymore? The final battle sequence was simply awful. First , Wahlberg can't get the humans to leave, then the next day he has to convince them to stay and fight. It's some kind of terrible Braveheart ripoff, but instead of 5,000 screaming Scots, Wahlberg looks like he got stuck with a few dozen heavily medicated Swiss. Who let that punk kid on the set? I cannot believe Burton allowed that scene to be shot. "I'm going with you and there's nothing you can . . . omigod my horse fell over and I'm trapped and here come the apes!" Since the apes were planning to charge anyway, why were they even out there? Fortunately the apes run straight for the business end of the rocket rather than at the humans around the rocket. I won't go into just how dumb Michael Clarke Duncan's lines get toward the end. This film exhausts me with it's stupidity. If you've been suckered into seeing this movie, I hope you'll consider beating the $7 out of the screenwriters should you ever meet them. Even if you haven't seen it, I encourage you to beat them and take the $7 anyway (or at least their WGA cards).

  • Aug. 2, 2001, 2:59 a.m. CST

    POTA. No shit!

    by CrazyFriction

    Do studios really need to spend millions on this waste of time to show us that -guess what?- make-up effects are better today then they were in 1968. No really?? Who'd have thought it?? Why doesnt Rick Baker and co. use their undoubted skills on something original, something we haven't seen before. Not this rehash- sorry 'reimagined' film. I'm not a six year old. It takes more then good make-up effects to make up for this crap.

  • Aug. 2, 2001, 4:44 a.m. CST

    Ape ending and chronology

    by Cellulardass

    Are you sure of your chronology as concerns the end? You say something about it being the Earth thousands of years in the future. My date did a better job than I in paying attention to the chronometer on Wahlberg's space ship and we're pretty sure it said 2100 something when he returned. So if we assume it's not an 'alternate dimensional thing' then it wouldn't be very far into the future in comparison to when the film began. The way I see it, Zemos or Semos, whatever his name was, left the new ape planet and returned to Earth and started a revolt there, but it took some 600 years for Thade to arise on the other planet so why would there be a monument to him on Earth after only 100 years? Just trying to find a common rational timeline and chain of events.

  • Aug. 2, 2001, 5:55 a.m. CST

    additional comments to all

    by Cellulardass

    I just had time to read more of people's comments, which I am genuinely interested in, and for good reason, obviously since I hadn't really even entertained the notion of Thade somehow returning to Earth's past (even though it now seems an obvious explaination to me) But still I wonder about the possibility of Semos (sp?)starting the rebellion after the Oberon crash, fathering (or mothering) some chimps and then commandeering a pod (since he was trained and there still might be some intact at that point)and returning to the Earth he came from and there starting yet another revolt and since it would be a revolt steeped in already developed human culture the apes would more or less assume the garb and customs where on the 'other' Earth they started more from scratch and thus had their own style and culture. Recall how the worship of Semos revolved around his 'promise to return' But of course we currently live on a planet where half the people worship some fairy tale about some other Mesiah 'returning' from a trip that never happened, so it's all within standard reincarnation/resurrection mythology, but still, maybe Semos did leave...but that still calls into question how Thade would come to be the hero of the ape Earth...so I guess my musings are inadequate And as far as other's critisizing movie geeks for over thinking movies....So what? For many that's half the fun of seeing a film, maybe it's better suited to a 'Memento' or "2001" but still, if I don't wanna think about a movie Hollywood provides me with a couple hundred a year I don't even have to take my brain to.

  • Aug. 2, 2001, 3:09 p.m. CST

    POTA: THE FINAL ANALYSIS

    by tonicholas

    If you really care, here is the final analysis on the Planet of the Apes. I'm going to explain this using hypothetical dates, since that makes things more concrete. The movie starts in the year 2027 (not hypothetical). Marky Mark is in a space station orbiting Earth where he is working with genetically enhanced chimpanzees. There's an electromagnetic storm, the chimp flies out to check it out and disapears into the storm, and M.M. goes in after him. M.M. gets sucked into the electromagnetic storm and gets thrown through time into the PAST. The folks on the space station go after M.M. and they too hit the storm and get thrown through time into the PAST. Here is where the hypothetical dates come in. The folks on the space station get thrown into the past, let's say to the year 10,000 B.C., which roughly corresponds to the first known human settlements. The ship crashes into Earth. This is a primitive time for humans on the planet, homo sapiens are not culturally sophisticated. The genetically enhanced chimps on board the space station have more technical know-how than the humans living on Earth. The chimps, lead by Simos, revolt against the humans on the ship and prevail. The chimps procreate and evolve - and they come to dominate and enslave the humans, since the chimps are the more sophisticated species. Now, back to M.M. When M.M. was thrown into the past, he landed in (hypothetically) the year 800 B.C (which corresponds to the emergence of the Greek city-state). M.M. crashes into Earth, but the population of the Earth has been fundamentally altered by the events that took place when the space station crashed 9,200 years prior. The Earth is not the dominion of the inchoate modern humans, but rather the scene of the early-civilization apes. (It is, of course, completely unrealistic to think that the apes could have evolved that much in 9,200 years, but, we're talking about talking apes, so...) So this is where the poorly-directed action starts...Fast forward to the end, when M.M. defeats Thade, or so he thinks, and the chimp returns in the space ship (The chimp could have been orbiting the Earth in his space ship while M.M. was searching for "Calima.") M.M. gets into his space ship and flies away. There is a shot of the Earth, and the geography is different because it is the Earth of the past, the primitive Earth with Pangaea-like geography. M.M. then reverses the time-space coordinates of the chimps ship, flies back into the electromagnetic storm, and is thrown Back to the Future (get it?) to the year 2027. M.M. crashes into Earth, but it is not the Earth that he left, it is the Earth that has evolved along the timeline that was established after the space station crashed in 10,000 B.C. Somehow, after M.M. left the Earth in 800 B.C., Thade managed to escape from his confinement, harness the technology from the ship (especially the gun), and become the leader of the apes who defeats the humans. So M.M. lands back on Earth in 2027 and Thade is a great historical figure. Judging by the reactions of the apes who see M.M. when he disembarks his craft, humans have been extinct for some time. Now, to address possible objections. The most serious objection to this explanation, and the only real problem with it, is that, apparently, if some people are correct, the time-ometer on M.M.'s ship goes backwards when he travels through time at the end. If my explanation is correct, then the time-ometer should go forward. But he was flying through a time-warped electromagnetic storm, and you know how those time-ometers are. But seriously, the explanation that I have put forward makes perfect sense if you reconcile this one fact. Did the time-ometer really go backward? Could this have been a deliberate trick by the movie makers? Could the meter have gone backwards while still sending M.M. forward in time? The other objection, that the main events in this movie took place on a planet other than Earth, is simply ridiculous. The planet M.M. returns to at the end of the movie is clearly Earth, so the events of the movie before M.M. returns at the end must have taken place on Earth. As for the two moons dilemma - I don't think Earth has ever been accused of having two moons, and I didn't notice them in the movie. If there were two moons, maybe the movie makers did make a deliberately inconsistent plot to make fools like me give more thought to the film than the film deserves. The movie really sucked.

  • Aug. 2, 2001, 9:15 p.m. CST

    This is how the great one contradicts him self

    by Renderking

    This is from Harry

  • Aug. 3, 2001, 3:25 a.m. CST

    Ya got the end ALL WRONG!

    by cart00n

    "Planet of the Apes" is a truly beguiling film. I loved it from start to finish, tho' I must admit that the ending WAS a bit of a shock at first. Until I thought about it a little while. First of all, let me explain how it all works--Mark Wahlberg's character, Leo, gets shot thru time & space to end up on EARTH (he just doesn't know it til the end), in the past, but not as far back as the space station Oberon. Before the final battle, he finds out that HE'S the cause for the entire debacle--if he hadn't've left the ship, the ship wouldn't have gone after him, and ended up in the past to unleash the genetically evolved apes. When he leaves to go back to the future, he finds that he has made TWO MORE mistakes: (1) That he was on Earth the whole time, and (2), That he shouldn't have left Thade alive. Of course, how was he to KNOW that he was in Earth's past (tho', I think, the horses should've been a clue), and that the Apes would've released Thade from imprisonment? No matter--the damage has been done and Leo, ultimately, is the blame for it all. If there is any flaw at all in this film, it's that the Apes evolved a society that mirrors our own, EXACTLY. Why? When we see them in the past, their society is SIMILAR to humans, but not very. WHY, then, would their version of Washington D.C. look EXACTLY like our own? Oh, and one other thing, why didn't Leo (and Charlston Heston's character in the original) know he was on Earth in the first place? A horse is a horse (of course, of course), and indiginous to our planet. Why didn't EITHER character question that fact right away? When I saw the original POTA, even as a kid, I was not surprised in the LEAST that he was on Earth, them damn horses gave it away immediately. Same with this one. What DID surprise me this time is that Thade was released, and (presumably) was allowed to wipe out the human race. That and the fact that the Apes copied our society completely when they became advanced enough. I CERTAINLY hope they explore this in the future sequels...

  • First, althogh I didn't like the movie, I definately agree that the new POTA movie had a very plausible origin theory (actually, a pretty good one). You said it was better than the origin theory in the orinal movies, true. However, I guess I just want to defend the original from being hurt by its sequels. The original did not overtly have an origin theory. You were not supposed to think this was Earth until the final scene: it was just a planet wehre everything was reversed. After the ending, you were left to think that maybe the radiation mutated humans into morons, and apes into geniuses (a very plausible theory in 1968). It is quite conceivable that genetic engineering could have some part of that too. I don't think it's fair to taint the genius of the first movie with the crappy, horrible "ideas" put forth in the sequels, made by different writers, different directors, and mostly different actors.

  • Aug. 3, 2001, 7:51 a.m. CST

    Surprise Ending?

    by crux12

    When I heard Burton was working on a surprise ending for POTA, it made me wonder how the original book ended. So I borrowed a friends copy and checked it out. Burton's ending is simply his own take on the books ending minus the fact the Nova tags along (with child no less) and they land in France and not in DC. Not much of a surprise, but I guess to the myraids of people who haven't read the original, it was new to them.

  • Aug. 3, 2001, 9:08 a.m. CST

    "Can'

    by General Idea

  • Aug. 3, 2001, 9:36 a.m. CST

    "Can't we all just get along?"

    by General Idea

    I REALLY CAN'T GET ENOUGH OF THAT LINE!!!! Wow! At what point will that stop being funny? I thought it had died a few years ago, but there it was. Just gets funnier every time I hear it. I could almost sense it coming. The moment was right...you could tell the ape might say it, but no...they wouldn't really stoop to that level would they?! Kudos to whoever wrote that in! You deserve awards for having the balls to actually include that line. How sad. All in all, not a real good movie though, so I guess it fits fine. Did you give a crap about anyone in this film, ape or human? Because I didn't. Possibly Helena Bonham Carter's character... It struck me that the most noticeable reaction I heard from our theater was when the real monkey got beaten up & broke it's leg or something. So the only character anyone cared about wasn't even an actor. And why did the group of escaped humans decide they'd have to charge RIGHT THROUGH THE MIDDLE OF AN APE CAMP when they were heading for the Oberon? He was in a hurry? What the F???? Silliness. Movie had some promise, but a day after it just kind of sits in your gut, like after you just went to Taco Bell. "Hey, maybe that mega-burrito-supreme-enchilada-melt-with hot sauce wasn't all that bad! [hours later...] NOOOO!!!! THE PAIN!!!! What have I done to myself??!!!"

  • Aug. 3, 2001, 12:08 p.m. CST

    First Planet was NOT Earth!!

    by Zentrekker

    The planet that Wahlberg first lands on can't be Earth. This planet has at least 2 moons!! They show up in several scenes. So how did General Thade get to Earth? I'm not sure there is an answer (other than a Tim Burton out-of-the-blue let's surprise them explanation) but here's an idea. We know it was General Thade's relatives that knew the humans before the apes took over. What if one of his ancestors, involved in the uprising over the space humans, was able to launch a Pod and end back at earth in the past and pull off the Conquest of the Planet of the Apes story?

  • Aug. 3, 2001, 12:08 p.m. CST

    Planet

    by cel

    Your theory about the ending has one flaw. And is why everyone I saw it with was shaking their heads. The name on the monument was the same as the ape he had trapped in the ship. How could the ape he had just left on the other planet take over earth. And if you see the movie again, he went back in time, not into the future. No matter which way you slice it, and you had a good idea, the ending was garbage.

  • Aug. 3, 2001, 12:19 p.m. CST

    Monkeys and guns

    by Cajun Lightning

    After reading everyone's take on the ending, I don't know what's up with it. This is what I thought: The planet he landed on at the end of the movie was like an alternate reality that was somehow brought on by the fact that by the end of the film, Thade has a gun. You know Charlton Hestons whole speech about the evil of guns and how that weapon alone made humans what they are or were, rather? (Kind of ironic, don't you think?) Well, I just kinda figured that by giving monkeys guns, it altered the time space continuum and it was a cautionary thing about violence, just as the original was about nuclear war. I figured it was an AU cause I just doubted that apes would take over the world and then just stick Thade's head on Lincolns body. But I'm reading everyone else's theory and I have no idea what was supposed to have been going on. I also forgot they left the monkeys pod behind so I guess they did just invade Earth. Hmm...I dunno. As for the movie as a whole, I kinda agree with Harry. Some really cool things in a mostly crappy movie. That's not too bad for this summer.

  • Aug. 3, 2001, 2:15 p.m. CST

    The New Planet

    by witmatrix

    You People Say You Dont get The Ending , if You Had payed Any Attention The movie Starts in 2029 , After he Returns At The End It Is the Year 2165. That is A Lot Of Time To Destrot humans And Evolve Apes.... besides There Is A Pod At The Bottom Of The Lake That Thad Knows About , And Just Enough Fuel And Technology In The Big Ship To Repair And Recharge The Pod For One Flight..... There Will be A Sequel....2003

  • Aug. 3, 2001, 2:27 p.m. CST

    POTA Ending-Proven..but answer these 2 questions

    by jubjub0006

    I just wrote a very long explaination of the ending and my comp. crashed and I don't have the patience to do it again, so here's the CliffNotes version. IT WAS EARTH THE WHOLE TIME. YES, THERE WERE 2 MOONS, BUT LEO WENT THOUSAND OS YEARS TO THE PAST, SO IT'S PLAUSIBLE TO ASSUME THAT ONE OF THE MOONS WERE DESTOYED OVER THE YEARS. ALSO, DISREGARD THE CHRONOMTER IN THE POD...IT WAS MALFUNCTIONING BECAUSE OF THE ELECTRICAL STORM. aLSO, THE POD WAS NOT A TIME MACHINE, SO HOW WOULD WE EXPECT THE CHRONOMTER TO WORK ANYWAY. Okay, with these two points covered, here is what happened. Leo originally goes 1000's of years to the past. Oberon goes after him and ends up 1000's of years before him. Leo leaves and comes back to sometime in the future. In the meantime, Thade escapes the ship and uses the technology left with him to conquer the humans, and he is considered a hero. by the apes...hence the Monument at the end. I only have 2 questions which I have not seen addressed... 1) Leo deployed in the Delta Pod, and Pericles (the Monkey) deployed in the Alpha Pod. Why does Pericles land at the end in the Delta Pod??? (if you notice, the readout in the ship clearly says "Delta Pod)> Was this just a mistake, or is there some significance? 2) If you notice that immediately after Leo deployed from the Oberon in the Delta Pod, the Oberon gets a mayday transmission. I am fairly certain, this is a mayday transmission from the Oberon itself, which is now technically in the past, since they went after Leo and were shot to an earlier time. My question is this. The transmission seems to be the captain of the Oberon, except about 20-30 years older. Why is he older? Did they mess around for 20-30 years, and THEN crash land? Also, this same transmission is on the database in the ruins, and the woman appears shortly after, but SHE HAS NOT AGED???? WHY???? This was a great moviem but you really need to understand the ending to appreciate it.

  • Aug. 3, 2001, 2:50 p.m. CST

    What is the Significance of the Kid???

    by jubjub0006

    Has anyone noticed how the teenage kid was somewhat showcased? There was no real reason to focus on his fighting skills other than possibly for the sequel. I'm thinking that this kid must somehow play a significant role in the sequel. Thoughts?????

  • Aug. 3, 2001, 4:08 p.m. CST

    Michael Jackson stars!

    by Tig

    Sorry if someone else has already made the connection... I haven't read but a few Talk Backs... Every time I saw the female ape all I saw was Michael Jackson!!! I mean it... She looks just like him! Maybe Burton should have called her "Bubbles"? Otherwise, the movie had plot holes big enough to drive a tour bus through.

  • Aug. 3, 2001, 4:46 p.m. CST

    Planet of the Apes

    by karlk

    This was a good matinee flick that didn't make me peek at my watch. I was confused, however, at the ending.

  • Aug. 3, 2001, 8:29 p.m. CST

    You people are toooo serious

    by Barefootcity

    If you did not like the movie(POTA) go cry to your mommy for bringing up a simpleton who could not wait for the DVD rental to come out..sheesh..If you have to be entertained with with picking every aspect of every movie apart maybe you'd better join MENSSA(sp?). I hear the Annual Anal Picking Contest is to die for!

  • Aug. 4, 2001, 8:35 a.m. CST

    Possible explanation: Multiple timelines

    by Sgt Pepper

    Someone may have already discussed this one and to be honest I'm too lazy to read through all 6 million posts on this topic. Here we go. My theory is that there are multiple timelines at work in the story. First of all, let me say that I'm siding with the idea that the planet was Earth all along (a version of Earth that is with a completely different historical context). I also believe that the chrono thingee is correct. I mean why show the audience the passage of time via a device that measures just that if it wasn't working properly. I'm gonna elaborate on this device a little more here. The chrono thingee is just a watch. Nothing more, nothing less. It's not designed to measure time warps or anything like that. It just keeps time. Time, as some of you may know, is a dimension no different than space. It can be elongated or shorthened compared to a standard frame of reference. Einstein theorized using special relativity that increasing one's speed to approach the speed of light would in effect warp time significantly. By the way, we have proof of this now. Remember the Apollo missions of the late 60's and early 70's? The trip to the moon was the fastest any human being has travelled thus far. Both the command module and ground base (Houston) have atomic clocks to measure time. Atomic clocks are extremely precise to the smallest micro-second. Well when the astronauts returned from their moon trip a discrepency occured between the 2 clocks. The Houston clock said that the mission had lasted (I'm inventing some numbers here but it won't affect the proof, you can look up the exact numbers if you like) 11 days, 6 hours, 32 minutes, and 7 seconds. The command module clock said the mission had lasted 11 days, 6 hours, 32 minutes, and "4" seconds. The explanation for the difference is Einstein special relativity. The astronauts were travelling at such a great speed (nowhere near the speed of light by the way) that time effectively warped around them. Imagine how much the Earth would have aged if they had been travelling at a speed close the speed of light. Perhaps, hundreds if not thousands of years would have passed by in only 11 days from the astronaut's perspective. Ok. Back to the storyline. In a nutshell, it goes like this. MM travelled several hundred years into the future. We know this because his chrono thingee measures time (like a watch) and although the trip only lasted a few minutes for him, the space around him aged by several hundred years. The chrono is not broken, it's working just fine because, as I've explained in the previous paragraph, all it does is measure the passage of time. Why is this planet (Earth) so different then? Because it's history has already been altered. How? A time paradox. Going into the future does not alter the course of history. Going in the past probably will. If I went back in time and killed Hitler before he ever became chancellor of Germany, then it is likely that the WW2 would have never occured. Consequently, the Cold War may not have happened either. And on, and on, ... You see where I'm getting. The further back in time you travel, the greater the ramafication into the future. So who changed Earth's history then? The Oberon did. All we know is the Oberon's chrono was displaying weird time measurements because of the space anomalie. They never did show that the clocks were moving forward. I believe that the Oberon travelled back in time to Earth's prehistory when humans were nothing more uncivilized nomads with little culture. Maybe 100,000 years ago or more. That might explain the 2 moons because it's possible the Earth had 2 moons long ago. Who knows? There are no written records from this period of history. Just bones and a few primitive tools. By the time MM arrives in Earth's future, the planet's history has already been altered going back 100,00 years or more. The Apes have evolved and rule the planet like a Greek city-state, humans are still primitive, we've got horses, water, grass, etc... The only glitch with this theory is the 2 moon thing again. Perhaps the Earth will have 2 moons 600 years from now. Remember MM actually does travel into the future (of an altered Earth history) so it is possible. Now the ending. So far we have witnessed 2 different timelines. Timeline 1 which is our actual history up until 2029. Timeline 2 which is the result of the Oberon crashing 100,000 years ago thus changing the history after that up until the 2629 or something when MM crash lands also. But then at the end, we are back in the late 20th century or early 21st century except Apes rule. What happened? The answer is a 3rd timeline. MM stares at a statue in the likeness of Thade but dressed like Abe Lincoln. Obviously it is Thade. The inscription says it is and even conveys his rank of General. Coincidence? Of course not. Thade must have somehow (and this as yet to be explained--can anyone say sequel?) travelled back in time from timeline 2 to a particular point in timeline 1 and created a new time paradox which began timeline 3. My guess is that he travelled to some point in the 19th century (the time of Abe Lincoln) and over the course of the next century or so altered the course of history. The Apes became the rulers and humans as far as we know destroyed. Remember the 19th century was already a fairly modern time in history. The indutrial revolution was in full swing, steam engines, gunpowder, science, etc... The US was fastly becoming the major player on the world stage both politically and economically. Thade may have witnessed the forces at work during the Civil War and perhaps decided he would start his own Civil War freeing the Apes from human domination. Perhaps Thade travelled back with several other advanced Apes to repopulate and revolutionise the planet. However, Thade and the the apes did not destroy the world that humans had created. They simply took it over. Remember how in awe Thade was of the raygun. The power he felt when he held it in his hands. When he arrived back on the 19th century Earth he witnessed a wold on the brink of a technological revolution and seized his opportunity. Last bit. MM then travelled back in time from timeline 2 and arrived at the recently developped timeline 3 a hundred years or so after this particular timeline began. You know they could go on forever with these timeline scenarios. Who knows, they may already have. For all we know, there might be several other timelines connected to the story that we haven't glimpsed as of yet. Interesting stuff. Oh, by the way, I liked the movie. Not as good as the original but that was to be expected. Bring on the sequel. Sgt Pepper

  • Aug. 4, 2001, 10:47 a.m. CST

    And in the end...

    by Jeepster

    I thought Thade definitely had to have found a way to go back in time. In any case look how much talk this movie and its ending are getting. Isn't that also the point? Definitely fun. Definitely worth seeing. For the performances of some and the makeup of many.

  • Aug. 4, 2001, 12:12 p.m. CST

    Simpletons?

    by Cunning Linguist

    I would have to insist that a simpleton would be most easily identified by the inability to spell MENSA. Finding fault with POTA is by no means a serious task, it is, sadly, laughably easy. Face it peeps, the die-hard fans will love whatever trash is expectorated onto the silver screen, no matter what. The rest of us refuse to be so readily entertained... and for good reason. This movie was not very good. Mediocre at best, and only because the makeup effects are so stunning. The acting was for the most part horrendous (most notably Wahlberg, whom I had nothing against until I saw this 'cough' movie) with a few notable exceptions (Tim Roth for one). And the plot was weak to say the least (Ca Li Ma? No, wait, let's just brush a little dust off, good thing no ape tried this, ahhh, Caution, Live Animals). The list goes on, there was virtually no logic to this movie and not much to like about it beyond the makeup and the actors in the ape suits. Ironically, I did not mind the ending. It appealed to my sense of humor. Exactly what the ex-Funky Bunch point man deserves for leaving the blonde babe behind. I am pleased to see virtually every flaw explored in previous threads, as it should be. Definitely a matinee movie. Better yet, wait for the rental and save the price of popcorn.

  • Aug. 4, 2001, 2:37 p.m. CST

    POTA ending

    by zuzu82

    If the ending takes place on Earth in the future, how is the Lincoln memorial re-done as Thade, a creature from a whole other planet? Your take on the ending was the same as mine and it seems all figured out except for the fact that it says "Thade" at the "Thade"/Lincoln memorial. Felt the same way you did pretty much on the whole film.

  • Aug. 4, 2001, 5:05 p.m. CST

    POTA song

    by Gul Shah

    Visit: http://www.rollingstone.com/dds/artist.asp?artist=13577 and check out the MP3 file "Super Chimp". It's more "Conquest of the Planet of the Apes" than POTA, but any simian song is ok by me...

  • Aug. 4, 2001, 9:33 p.m. CST

    My advice? Just let it slide...

    by Neon_Noodle

    I don't know why I'm bothering to post this- my message will be swamped under all the others. But I just wanted to say this: consider it just like that story where the men who travel through time step on a butterfly and alter history- somewhere along his time and space journey, Leo did something very wrong. I think that the ending wouldn't have made any controversy had it simply had some other Ape name on the monument than Thade's, so I'll just let it slide for now. However, that little problem aside, I loved the ending. Seeing the Police Apes doing their 'Cops' routine was funny in a way that I just can't describe, and Wahlberg's final close up of him looking into the camera as if to say "My life sucks" was just perfect, and fit the POTA mood perfectly.

  • Aug. 5, 2001, 12:35 a.m. CST

    PLANET OF THE APES MONKEY MIX

    by DeanGeoghegan

    PLANET OF THE CHIMPS I could get, but I am not aware of GORILLAS and ORANG-UTANS being used in space flight or experiments. O.K. so the make-up was great but why would scientists use three different monkey species for experimentation ??? Or did I miss the point when a chimpanzee evolved into three seperate species of ape.

  • Aug. 5, 2001, 3:20 a.m. CST

    A bit Spooky

    by Sgt.Rock

    Great makeup and I loved the Ape action scenes. Helmets off to Tim Burton and Rick Baker for excellent Ape makeup and movements. I believe the Apes would have beat the life out of humans considering their natural muscle strength is like 4 times that of humans. If a gorilla pounds on me - I'm not getting up! Anyway, the humans in the movie were generally shallow, stupid and uncreative. The Apes, on the other hand, were intensely interesting - sometimes scary - sometimes comical. AND the ending - well - it sucked! It ruined the whole experience. It was inconsistent, sophomoric, low budget. Anyway, my thoughts after the movie (besides the ending sucking ape gas) strayed to: What will we become if a stronger or more intelligent specie were to emerge. Would we want to kill it to perserve our own mediocrity?

  • Aug. 6, 2001, 9:42 a.m. CST

    THE ENDING SUCKED - HARRY MISSED SOMETHING

    by Thorn MS

    OK, I was fine with the movie up through when the monkey landed, thought it was cool till then, thought it should have ended there. The last scene of him leaving and crashing on WTF-Earth completely ruined the film and left me angry. A) They weren't in a future where genetically engineered apes had obliterated mankind, they were driving and dressed in contemporary (if not dated) police attire and equipment - not future, today 1990-2000. So it has to be an alternative universe. B) The chronometer was going backwards, to approx. the time that the original warp occured and genetic engineering of primates was at its ineffective infancy, again discounting Harry's premise of a continuation of the engineering into a world taken over by apes. It doesn't fly. The only thing that possible makes sense is an alternative universe, and the way it was handed to the audience - to quote the great Cosby, was on a shit sandwich. Ruined the whole film for me.

  • Aug. 6, 2001, 10:33 a.m. CST

    The ending explained

    by Lurk71

    The key to the end (for me anyway) was when that old general ape said that Thede would NEVER stop at getting Marky Mark. Was Thede dead at the end? No. So I suggest he somehow used the crashed ship or an escape pod or something from it and followed Marko into space, got caught in the time cloud thing and landed on earth sometime in the past. Then he somehow lead the stupid apes and took over earth. The End.

  • Aug. 9, 2001, 2:17 p.m. CST

    It WAS Earth..I'll Prove Why

    by dot_com_a_kazee

    Okay, I will prove once and for all that this planet was Earth all along. I'll aslo prove thta Leo went BACK in TIME. Following are the theories re: this. I will disprove each one as follows. 1)"It couldn't be Earth, because it had 2 moons/suns." (By the way, they were moons.) Anyway, Leo went BACK IN TIME 1000's of years, so it's very plausible to assume that a 2nd moon could have been in Earth's orbit back then. 2)"Leo didn't go back in time because the chronometer went hundreds of years forward." Yes, I agree. It sure did. But, consider this. I will use myself for an example. I drive a pretty nice car. It has a computer on the diplay that gives me a time and date readout. So, if I drove it into a "time warp", and came out in another time, would my computer readout have changed to the new time?? OF COURSE NOT!!! I even have to reset it for Daylight savings time! Also, they went out of the way to state tha the storm wreaked havoc on all of the digital clocks...so thta explains why it began spinning forward in the pod. Lastly, the pod is NOT a time machine, so why would the chronometer be accurate during time travel??? get my point...hope so. 3)How did Thade get the Pod out of the water if Apes were terrified of water? (By the way, I don't think he did. I think he used one of the other pods...recall only an Alpha and Delta pod were deployed...this would still leave a Beta and Gamma pod on the Oberon),,,Anyway, the pod could have been retrieved from the water by humans. 4) If all of the primates were decendants of ones from the ship, how could there be anything other than chimps? If you look closely, you will notice an Orangutang on the Oberon at the 1st of the movie. It's is logical to assume that all different species of primates were on the ship..it was a HUGE ship. There you have it.

  • Aug. 9, 2001, 2:30 p.m. CST

    Measure of a Movie - POTA falls short

    by DemonsDream

    I always measure a movie by whether or not I want to own it on DVD. In this case POTA falls short. Sure I may rent it to get another look at the great makeup and see some of the DVD special features they are sure to have on it but other than that this movie fell short. There were high points. Tim Roth's makeup was far superior to any other but his acting really brought his character to life. I even enjoyed the idea of how the planet had evolved, with Mark W. being responsible for it all. But the problems. So many problems. I have seen most of them listed here but some others I saw: 1) Why make the story start only 28 years from now? I just don't see us being that advanced by then. Could they have not made it 2129? I know this is a small thing, nit-picking really, but it kinda bugged me. 2) Mark's ships ability to survive a planetary crash. The guy was wearing a seatbelt for Christ sakes. Anyone ever seen a meteor impact? Mark survives not one, but two of these crashes and one into marble stairs. If his monkey proved a smooth landing was possible why couldn't Mark at least do it the second time? The ship also had the ability break a planets gravitational pull? The Space Shuttle has to reach a speed of 17,000 MPH to break the Earths gravity well. Mark's ship had a thruster the size of an elephant's ass. Also, did that tiny ship look like an interplanetary traveler? I didn't think so but it sure had no problems getting from Saturn to Earth in no time. Good thing too since Mark had no food and no *shudder* toilet. "Look, floating chocolate bars" 3) The Oberon's ability to fire thrusters. The thing had sat there for thousands of years. Give me a fucking break. The list could go on for pages but in the end I found that the movie gave me 2 hours of enjoyment (minus the last two minutes) but certainly doesn't rate with movie greats. One of my all time favorite movie is SE7EN. There is movie perfection. Believable characters, great dialog, wonderful photography, and a truly surprise ending. I guess all movies can't be classics but do they have to fall so short when it appears they have all the tools to make one?

  • Aug. 9, 2001, 2:33 p.m. CST

    Intesting Things To Note...and Stuff I Thought was Cheesy

    by dot_com_a_kazee

    First, Let me say I thought this was a great movie , but ONLY if you can understand it. Here are some things that I thought were somewhat "cheesy". 1) Apes running faster than the horses. 2)Orangutang with toupee and false teeth. 3)Leo getting hit square in the face by an ape..so hard that it knocked him 20 feet. A blow like this certainly would have killed him (unless he was Rocky, of course). OK...and here are some interesting and important points to notice... 1) This is perhaps the most important point to notice in the whole film. It PROVES that Leo went to the Earth of the past. Recall that the Oberon began receiving tranmissions from "all of history" whenever they hit the storm. Then they received one more transmission...if you'll notice, it was a Mayday tranmission from the captain himself. IMPORTANT...This transmission ONLY occurred AFTER Leo deployed in the Delta Pod, and started the series of events that resulted in the Oberon traveling after him , but landing 1000's of years before. Therefore, it too, was a transmission from THE PAST. 2) The "human brand" was the shape of the Oberon ship. 3) Just what all was in the bag that Leo left with the Orangutang??? 4) The Michael Jackson chick monkey stated that that would never quit chasing Leo. 5) I haven't taken latin, but does "Semos" perhaps come from Semian? 6)They went out of the way to say that Pericles was about to be a father. Hmmmm...I wonder who his son could be??? 7)Pericles deploys in the Alpha Pod, but lands in the Delta pod..HHHMMMMM...

  • Aug. 10, 2001, 2:02 p.m. CST

    *Plausible Explanation for Ending-If it helps*

    by Zentrekker

    Planet Of the Apes Ending - A Believable Scenario - None of "it was Earth all along" or "Alternate Universe/Dimension" crap. First the basics: 1. Whalberg goes forward in time through magnetic storm

  • And for please people, until time travel can actually be invented, give the paradox arguments a rest.

  • And for please people, until time travel can actually be invented, give the paradox arguments a rest.

  • Aug. 11, 2001, 8:08 p.m. CST

    Dudes, the ending was clear

    by Anai

    General Thade somehow dredged up Marky Mark's crashed ship, fixed or modified it using information he gleaned from the ruins of the crashed space station AND perhaps the chimp who was a trained space pilot after all - and he built some kind of space ship large enough for himself and his remaining outcast followers, entered the space/time warp and landed on the Earth at some point in it's past and took over the Earth using the superior weapons from the future. Then, a few hundred years later, Marky Mark comes crashing down to find the resulting "madhouse" of an Earth run by monkeys.

  • Aug. 13, 2001, 2:18 p.m. CST

    It Was Earth

    by jason john

    It was definately Earth that Mark crash landed on, I figure the electromagnetic cloud had a flux thing going on and sent whatever went inside to different times, randomly, the space station went furthest back, to Earth, and started all the monkey shit off, then Mark arrives ages after to see all the humans as slaves, and finally, the monkey arrives shortly after, which gives Mark the means to leave " Earth " , he then goes back in time to an Earth of now, and see's things messed up. But if he has altered or the space station altered history, then they would change as well, your looking at a paradox, time for Marty and Doc Brown I think.

  • Aug. 14, 2001, 9:12 a.m. CST

    Bad time traveling, pathetic dialog, and no logic

    by DeeJay

    The reality is that POTA was a visually beautiful yet incredibly stupid film. There literally isn't enough time in a day to discuss all of it's shortcomings. One of which is that gorillas and orangutans were born of chimpanzees. Harry... for future reference, DNA is a code, and "unstable DNA" is not something that would expedite mutations for higher evolution. The humans would have had to *intend* to make the chimps their equal through very specific genetic manipulation. They would do this while not implementing any safeguards such as a microchip in the chimps' brains, we are to assume. Riiiight. While there were some cute moments in the movie, it took ignorant storytelling to a new low. I'm still wondering how the apes were able to catch ANY human... seeing as how they could teleport and use telepathy. This was evident in their ability to get to Oberon faster than horses, and to "spread the word" throughout their so-called villages in a few hours. Then again, the apes *could* fly and make horses out of thin air...

  • Aug. 14, 2001, 7:08 p.m. CST

    POTA Chronology

    by circumpithy

    Quite frankly, I am confused by so much confusion over the new "Planet of the Apes." I can understand why ordinary shmucks (the ones who cannot comprehend letterboxing, for instance) are confused. But why have critics and AICN readers failed to think this through? I had this partially figured out while watching the film yesterday, and was absolutely delighted when the rest of the puzzle pieces fell into place as I drove home! The ending of the new "Planet of the Apes" has a brilliantly airtight logic behind it. The rather simple key is that Captain Leo went BACK in time, not forward as in the 1968 film. (Yes, the ship clock shows time going forward, but that is a sly trick. Certain scientific instruments don't know how to count backwards: they just count!) Here is a simple chronology from which the whole puzzle can be solved: 1] Scientists find a mysterious Vortex which MIRRORS BACK every radio and TV transmition ever emitted from Earth. 2] Genetically modified Superchimp astronaut Pericles flies into the Vortex, headed towards the Earth of, let's say, 20,000 years ago. 3] Captain Leo quickly follows, but on a slightly different path, headed towards the Earth of 20,000 years and 4 days ago. (Remember that he passes Pericles' craft along the way.) 4] The Superchimps back on the USS Oberon start a bloody mutiny to save their buddy. (Remember the scientist who warns, "Don't trick them, they get mad when you trick them.") They pilot the Oberon into the Vortex some time later, following a path that takes them even further back into the past: Earth 22,000 years ago. 5]Superchimps quickly evolve, become the dominant species, leading to the film's ape society. They eventually figure out the time travel screw-up, making the absolutely accurate prediction that Pericles will show up in about 2000 years, preceeded by a kind of Anti-Christ pretender who is not to be trusted: Captain Leo. 6] Whereas ape society was slowly being led (by Ari) towards a goal of acceptance of humans as equals, Leo inadvertantly renews General Thade's genocidal rage. 7] We must now make the unsupported, but necessary, assumption that Pericles frees Thade from the Oberon. We must also assume that 21st century Human technology is ignored or destroyed for the simple reason that it is a great evil. (Remember that Thade's father carefully hid the evil gun.) 8] Thade continues his genocidal campaign, this time successfully. 9] The social evolution of Apes continues for 20,000 years. They have assumed precisely our level of advancement by the year 2029, where the story started. Throughout this movie there are many moments of foreshadowing which knit this chronolgy together perfectly, belying complaints about a "tacked on" ending. In fact, the information revealed early on is quite blatant, not unlike the Sage's early monologue in "Oedipus Rex" which reveals the entire story of the play about as thoroughly as any movie trailer! The shear ingenuity of plotting is enough to make this film just as re-watchable as the 1968 version (although the intolerable amateurishness of Mark Wahlberg might make me think twice). In place of the 1968 rant - "You finally did it, you blew it up!! - Captain Leo could have said: "We finally did it, we blew it!! It wasn't enough just to destroy nature, including the habitats of our closest evolutionary relatives, the apes. We had to play games with their genes, turning them into something unnatural. They fought back... and we lost!" Captain Leo did not give this long-winded speech, because we were supposed to figure it out. This is a cautionary tale that we should be familiar with by now. I guess we aren't. Just in case you haven't looked this up lately, here is the American Heritage Dictionary entry for Pericles: "d. 429 B.C. Athenian leader noted for advancing democracy." The Lincoln Memorial, that great symbol of Democracy, has quite a history of genocide behind it. So does the Thade Memorial.

  • Aug. 14, 2001, 8:30 p.m. CST

    Harry dont say what the ending IS when you have no fuckin clue y

    by AttackingClone

    and you forgot about Thades freeing the apes from the humans you jerkwad. I really am getting sick of your shit harry, and fuck off with the pop-ups. You are the biggest fucking loser ever harry and im not going to come here and read your bullshit ever again. ever since ive come here i havent enjoyed movies as much as i used to, so screw you guys, im going somewhere else.

  • Aug. 15, 2001, 10:31 a.m. CST

    ThaSithMaster... don't fall for it!

    by DeeJay

    ThaSithMaster... nice take, but it misses some key points. First, chimps (that were not genetically enhanced) have been used to pilot space crafts in the past. As an earlier poster said, this would not be necessary in the future, as we now have robots (whose functioning doesn't require such creature comforts as food, sleep and air) to do the trick. This invalidates the mere presence of the chimps, or any other non-pet animal, on Oberon. Next, we theorize about time-space anomolies today. Therefore, the idea that a trained & equiped spaceman would encounter one that could "fool" all of his equipment is silly. Next, it has taken generations for most of our brightest minds to come up with plausable theories on the design of the pyramids. Therefore, it takes a complete fool to believe the theory (put forth by others) that Thade (whose tribe is still entranced by the wheel, mirror and fire) and his greatest artisans could begin to comprehend the technology used for Oberon. Especially since those scientists of the future couldn't even fix their own equipment. Most importantly, since Oberon's went to an early Earth and changed our timeline, it's a *huge* stretch for us to even think that Mark Wahleberg's character (who we now know will not be born) could even escape the anamoly. This means that, based on some of the first 20 minutes, the rest of the movie should not have even taken place. The most important lesson in this film seems to be that chimps make better pilots, as all the humans pilots crashed (3 times total) yet Pericles landed both "gingerly" and "gracefully". Come on, people! We all know that they should have cast Eddie Griffin in this film's lead role, and named it "Foolish II".

  • Aug. 15, 2001, 11:08 a.m. CST

    about the ending and female apes

    by Ghilgamesh

    There is so much talk about the ending of the new Planet of the Apes

  • Aug. 15, 2001, 11:09 a.m. CST

    about the ending and female apes

    by Ghilgamesh

    There is so much talk about the ending of the new Planet of the Apes

  • Aug. 15, 2001, 11:23 a.m. CST

    ape lincoln

    by flinderzeld

    UMMM ... where they get all the horses? Was it Planet Of The Horses before the SRPISFSM (Stupid Research Probe In Space For Smart Monkeys) crashed? Anyone? Anyone?

  • Aug. 15, 2001, 9:09 p.m. CST

    The simple explanation for the ending

    by beezer2

    Many of you would seem to be in dire need of Occam's Razor ... anyway, the ending is pretty much the only part of the movie that I liked because of its simple, clever logic. First off, I don't know if the planets are the same or not ... that's another question that cannot be conclusively answered with the information that is presented in this movie. However, this much is clear: The interstellar storm REVERSES and AMPLIFIES the passage of time. Everyone who goes through shows up proportionally much earlier than the last being who went through. For example: 1. Pericles falls through the vortex. 2. A few seconds later Leo Davidson falls through the vortex. 3. Davidson lands on the ape planet. 4. A few DAYS LATER Pericles appears on the ape planet. So you have the chimp and man showing up in reverse order, but with the time separation on one side amplified by a factor of several thousand. So let's look at the Oberon space station. It goes through, say, a year later. It would show up on the ape planet 4,000 or 5,000 years earlier. I can't remember the exact time separation there. Anyway, Davidson goes back through about 3 or 4 days after he left. Multiply by 4,000 and you get 30 years earlier -- so he shows up around 1999, or anytime that you would expect to see police driving Crown Victorias. So how does Thade get into the Lincoln Memorial? Easy ... he finds a way to get into space (probably in a pod from Oberon) some days or weeks after Davidson leaves. That puts him on Earth 30 to 100 years before Davidson -- take your pick -- as long as it's enough time to pass his genes along several generations. The Lincoln Memorial was started in 1914, so that gives a pretty wide window for the memorial to be existing already and then simply modified to have Thade's face. At some point he leads an ape revolt against humans. Another possibility is that he appears between 1850 and 1884, when the Washington Monument was completed -- which could explain why the top of it is shrouded in fog, and how he might have used advanced weaponry to take over. (although it can't explain the Crown Victorias) Anyway, the theory holds: reversed and amplified time passage.

  • Aug. 16, 2001, 4:46 p.m. CST

    The ending was perfect!

    by brian_prothero

    I have to agree that everyone should read the book. I read it back in 1968 right after I saw the original movie. I loved the ending ...and even the twist in the epilog which follows the stories ending. Some have said that they hate the ending of the movie and that it was stupid or made no sense. You guys just don't get it is all. Back when I was in high school, me and my Ape Fan friends decided to make our own Planet of the Apes movie titled "Return to the Planet of the Apes". I made replicas of all of the classic costumes, latex foam masks (full and appliances) and props (including weapons). The ending was very similar to Tim Burton's ending. Read beyond the spoiler warning for an explaination. . . . . <<<<<< SPOILER WARNING >>>>>>>> <<<<<< for book and movie >>>>> . . . . . . . Ok, don't say I didn't warn you... . . . . . . . . Anyone who has read the original novel will recognize Tim Burton's ending to the new PLANET OF THE APES film. It is almost straight from the book. In the book, a french journalist is on a space mission to Betelguise... a red giant planet light years from earth. It is an 18 month journal ship time but 500 years earth time. The space crew decends to the jungle surface of the new planet in a landing pod where they encounter mute animalistic humans. The Taylor character (different name in the book) meets Nova at the waterfall and the spacemen spend several days with the natives. Then the gorilla's call the hunt and all of the spacemen are killed except the one astronaut. He is not wounded in the throat like Taylor but his speech only sounds like animal growls to the non-English speaking Zira, Zaius and other 20th century technology apes. It isn't until he shows his intelligence by communicating using the universal language... mathematics (he diagrams the formula A^2 + B^2 = C^2). From that point on it follows ESCAPE FROM THE PLANET OF THE APES fairly closely. The astronaut becomes a celebrity until it is discovered that Nova is pregnant with his child. Zira smuggles the human family onto a space launch by replacing the trained human pilots used as test animals. Once in orbit, they rendevious with their orbiting ship and head back to earth. He lands in an airport outside of Paris and can clearly see the Eiffle Tower during his decent. A vehicle drives up to meet him and a policeman steps out... a gorilla! In the epilog, the vacationing couple, who are reading this story they found in a bottle in space while sailing in their solar sail spaceship between stars, can not believe such an fantastic story about talking humans... they are chimpanzees. So, as you can see, Tim Burton simply followed the ending of the book. The only thing that makes it somewhat confusing and raises unnecessary questions is the inscription of General Thade's name on the wall of the "Ape" Lincoln Memorial. It would have been better to have excluded that part of the ending and just left it as an "Ape" Lincoln figure.

  • Aug. 17, 2001, 7:48 a.m. CST

    Brian-Prothero, that ending was horrid

    by DeeJay

    The book, we would all agree, was a science fiction masterpiece. Tim Burton's take, however, was not science fiction. It can only be considered fantasy on a very, very good day. The big problem here is that in the book, the apes had advanced technology. Therefore, it is possible that they had sent apes from their M-classed planet orbiting Betelgeuse *before* the Earth mission reached their home. With the subjective nature of time, those apes could have somehow "taken over" Earth before the austronaut got back. This cannot apply to Tim Burton's tale, because the apes there didn't know the first thing about space-faring technology & had no way to get back into the spacial anamoly so as to "beat Mark Wahlberg back to the future Earth". As I stated in an earlier post, it's not possible for Thade's posse to develop the technology, and as another poster said, there are too many problems with the idea that Wahlberg landed on an "alternate" Earth. The ended was therefore illogical, impossible, and ultimately as idiotic and pointless as the entire film. We can all agree that the visuals and a select few jokes were almost redeeming factors, though.

  • Aug. 17, 2001, 10:04 a.m. CST

    Brian-Prothero, that ending was horrid

    by DeeJay

    The book, we would all agree, was a science fiction masterpiece. Tim Burton's take, however, was not science fiction. It can only be considered fantasy on a very, very good day. The big problem here is that in the book, the apes had advanced technology. Therefore, it is possible that they had sent apes from their M-classed planet orbiting Betelgeuse *before* the Earth mission reached their home. With the subjective nature of time, those apes could have somehow "taken over" Earth before the austronaut got back. This cannot apply to Tim Burton's tale, because the apes there didn't know the first thing about space-faring technology & had no way to get back into the spacial anamoly so as to "beat Mark Wahlberg back to the future Earth". As I stated in an earlier post, it's not possible for Thade's posse to develop the technology, and as another poster said, there are too many problems with the idea that Wahlberg landed on an "alternate" Earth. The ended was therefore illogical, impossible, and ultimately as idiotic and pointless as the entire film. We can all agree that the visuals and a select few jokes were almost redeeming factors, though.

  • Aug. 17, 2001, 1:03 p.m. CST

    PLANET OF THE APES ENDING INTERPRETATION

    by ARSENAL1

    SPOILER COMMENTS(IF ANYONE ELSE SEES THIS!) The return trip to Earth did not result in him going back in time as you stated in your review.I saw the film today and i am certain his time-clock was going backwards! However,it could refer to a different(geeky!) take on time travel dangers.The idea is you can travel back & forth in time but perhaps time is looped and has possibilities of crossing into parallel realities! It is a "possible" solution but even so I found it slightly unrewarding-an unsatifying APEING of the original without its plausability.Although the overall film looked great,i felt a more accomplished action director would have done better.Think of J.Cameron getting his way as originally moted!Aliens after Alien(no way a disappointment)shows what might have been.

  • Aug. 17, 2001, 1:26 p.m. CST

    THE ENDING-COMMENT 2

    by ARSENAL1

    Just read the comment about Thade using the ships command centre to return to Earth past and change history.Nice idea but would that blood thirsty cretin really have the smarts to reactivate a derelict FUCKED UP ship WITHOUT the console remote Marky Mark had.He would have had about a week to take a crash course in advanced aerospacial-engineering before dying without food & water! It took him 5 minutes to point & shoot the gun in the right direction! If he were capable of that surely Wahlberg could have sorted his problems out overnight! There are ways round getting Thade out of his glass prison to give him time to TRY to learn the technology but .....DOES THIS FILM DESERVE THIS KIND OF ATTENTION!I THINK NOT!!

  • Aug. 17, 2001, 1:43 p.m. CST

    Brian-Prothero, that ending was horrid

    by DeeJay

    The book, we would all agree, was a science fiction masterpiece. Tim Burton's take, however, was not science fiction. It can only be considered fantasy on a very, very good day. The big problem here is that in the book, the apes had advanced technology. Therefore, it is possible that they had sent apes from their M-classed planet orbiting Betelgeuse *before* the Earth mission reached their home. With the subjective nature of time, those apes could have somehow "taken over" Earth before the austronaut got back. This cannot apply to Tim Burton's tale, because the apes there didn't know the first thing about space-faring technology & had no way to get back into the spacial anamoly so as to "beat Mark Wahlberg back to the future Earth". As I stated in an earlier post, it's not possible for Thade's posse to develop the technology, and as another poster said, there are too many problems with the idea that Wahlberg landed on an "alternate" Earth. The ended was therefore illogical, impossible, and ultimately as idiotic and pointless as the entire film. We can all agree that the visuals and a select few jokes were almost redeeming factors, though.

  • Aug. 17, 2001, 9:56 p.m. CST

    Craptacular

    by shoney

    Not that the first one was the greatest movie ever made, but this remake is a nauseating, steaming load squeezed from the hemorrhoid ridden sphincter that has become Hollywood. If you are tired of overblown, poorly written films that are overrun with cheesy puns and one liners skip this film. If you have eight bucks to burn and think that Gladiator is the best film to ever win an Academy Award, you will probably love it. One of Tim Burton's worst yet.

  • Aug. 21, 2001, 5:16 a.m. CST

    Ending theory number 5324

    by Sirius Black

    Marky is on the space ship. Which is run by the monkeys (they rule in 2030) he gets sent first into the storm and goes down to earth. In the journey he gets hit on the head and convinces himself that humans rule the earth, not monkeys. Perocles tells the ship that he's "going to get his human" and so flies off after Marky to save him. We therefore can't believe anything that we are told happens on the planet 'cos Marky is now a few sandwiches short of a picnic (the old "untrustworthy narrator trick") until he gets back to earth, looking all stunned and thinks "damn, the monkeys were in charge all along". Kind of far fetched, perhaps, but it explains the horses.

  • Aug. 21, 2001, 12:41 p.m. CST

    Original POTA Ending (1965)

    by brian_prothero

    Original Film Ending - Prior to 5/15/64 (script by Rod Serling)<BR><BR> At archeological dig, they find caskets, a human doll which cries "mama?"

  • Aug. 22, 2001, 8:59 a.m. CST

    the biggest disappointment this year

    by smiley_oreardon

    I almost walked out of this movie at the midpoint (the second half is only marginally better), not for what it is, but what it could have been. The problem with this film, and a majority of the rest of the crap Hollywood is spewing, is the demographic. Is anyone else sick of seeing films made for 13 year olds?? The first Conan movie comes to mind. It was raw, gorey, heavy metal. I went to this movie expecting to see apes making bitches of humans, BRTUALIZING them. Instead, not one ape in this film is even mildly intimidating except for Thade. On top of that, the script is TERRIBLE and Wahlberg's performance isn't much better.

  • Aug. 22, 2001, 11:44 a.m. CST

    Kris Kristofferson

    by Brimacombe

    Any movie with KK walking around half naked (if only for 10 minutes) is definitely worth seeing. The man is a serious SEX GOD!!!!!!

  • Aug. 22, 2001, 3:54 p.m. CST

    Thought it was obvious...

    by blix_fr

    Am I the only one to have seen the five original movies ? Cos when you have, Burton's ending seems pretty clear. In the second movie a rescue mission is sent to the Planet, at the end of the movie, Zira and Cornelius (which here could be Thade and Ira) are sent back in time. Here, they could be sent to Earth, to year, say, 2050. Thade leads the Battle of the Apes, overthrows humanity, destroys the Lincoln statue and builds his own instead. In 2100something, Wahlberg comes back, et voil

  • Aug. 23, 2001, 4:27 a.m. CST

    Planet of the Shite

    by leovinus

    I can't believe that anybody would try to stick up for this pitiful attempt at film making. There was no plot to speak of, a twist that you could see coming a mile off and charactor development you could fit on the back of a stamp. Talk about Hype winning out over substance. Its just another reason why you shouldn't f*ck with the classics. Tim Burton must be laughing his cock off! To quote the immortal Bill Hicks "piece of shit movie"

  • Aug. 23, 2001, 3:04 p.m. CST

    On the Level of "Toxic Avenger"

    by DeeJay

    Leovinus... thank you! While it's good to see that Tim Burton has such a die hard following, that still doesn't excuse the terrible strip of celluloid that was 2001's POTA. Brian_Prothero... the big difference between the original book and this film is that, in the book, all of the events either happened concurrently or moving forward in (subjective) time. In almost every instance, the logic of these occurrences is explained. In *this* film, characters move from the future to the past to the future, etc, and there is never any rationale offered as to why implausable events are occurring. Of course, that is because this film has virtually no logic. Manesse... in the 3rd film of the original installment, the pod was still functioning when the chimp scientists got in it and flew back in time. We then observed a 12 Monkeys'-styled "you can't cheat fate" chain of events. Again, there was an internal logic in that film. To compare it with Burton's story is to insult the creators of the original film series. For goodness sake, don't you realize that Cornelius and Zira only survived as long as they did because they were essentially non-violent? Thade couldn't lead a revolution on future, alternate or WHATEVER Earth because there is no way he'd *ever* be able to fix Oberon, let alone understand the theoretics of time travel.

  • Aug. 23, 2001, 5:04 p.m. CST

    book = film : my logic

    by brian_prothero

    DeeJay, I understand what you are saying and I agree that the original film had a much better script and plot. I was only pointing out that the movie ending was true to the book. I agree that the image of Thade at Lincoln Memorial causes confusion and forces us to twist movie facts to explain what might have happened. However, I don't think that is really necessary. The way I see it, it was not the same General Thade and the movie did take place on another planet. We know that earth was creating genetically engineered apes; so it is possible that the genetically enhanced intelligent apes on our planet, who were slaves to mankind, also rebelled and conquered the earth by the time he returned. The ship's clock stopped at 2160(?), if the clock can even be trusted, but he left earth at 2029. So perhaps apes naturally became the dominate species over that space of time. It was not any result of his actions but a natural result of our messing with nature. This would also explain why an earth version of General Thade would now replace Lincoln as the great emancipator of slavery. Make sense? I thought it was a brillant ending!

  • Aug. 27, 2001, 5:13 a.m. CST

    Burton Should Have Stuck to The Book

    by DeeJay

    Brian_Prothero... while I must credit Tim Burton for having such a die-hard fan, that ending was horrid no matter how it is spun. To imply that there were *2* General Thades and that Wahlberg would crash land on the footsteps of a Thade monument is extraordinary enough. The singularity/anamoly would just happen to place him there, right? Now, we would have our future humans genetically engineer intelligent apes--- even when making robots would be more practical. Somehow, these unorganized, uneducated and technologically illiterate apes would "rebel" and "conquer" us, right? That in and of itself is beyond remarkable. Especially since we could use simple design genetically-specific chemical agents that would quell their uprising within the first few hours. With that foundation, you throw in the "Adam-12" styled police cars and revolvers, and you have a silly ending. I agree with your assertion that the book has a well-crafted story. To equate an ending that makes sense (the book) with one that contradicts all logic (2001) is to discredit the author who spent the time doing research and contemplating the integrity of the story. It also serves to reward someone who would conciously insult your intelligence...

  • Aug. 31, 2001, 6:21 a.m. CST

    Laughable...

    by Dogmuffin

    I'm not going to argue about the what ifs and philosophy of the ending. What bugs me and made this film pants is the cliche ridden formulaic manner in which it has been made. The dialogue, the directing and worst of all the editing. It jumps from scene to scene without truly connecting and the ending from the "jesus it's a chimp on a space moped" landing straight through Mr Wahlberg's "F*ck off I'm outta here attitude" and in a piddly little space pod he conveniently finds a wormhole not only through time but also through space to land him right at earth's door, all in 5 minutes. The whole end sequence is so rushed and matter of fact it ruins the film. Tim Burton seems to have made a semi-decent job of the film and suddenly realised he's only got a little bit of budget/time to finish and thought "sod it just cram it in lads." My friends and I just laughed as we ticked off every element on the checklist of the predictable. Give enough chimps $100m and they'll make something just a little bit better...

  • Aug. 31, 2001, 7:20 a.m. CST

    Original POTA plot

    by adt100

    DeJay - you mention in reply to Brian_Prothero that: " Somehow, these unorganized, uneducated and technologically illiterate apes would "rebel" and "conquer" us, right? That in and of itself is beyond remarkable. " Although I haven't read the book, and have only seen the original film once, many years ago, was the basic idea in the 1965 version not that over the centuries, apes had somehow developed to a point where they rebelled and conquered humans? Hence the ende with the statue of liberty decaying and half buired, indicating the film had taken place on earth many years from now. Therefore such an idea in this remake is 'plausible' at least. Having said that, I like many others, did find the ending confusing and simply designed to create a 'shock' to rival that of the original, which didn't work as it stands. Clearly the whole film, and the no doubt subsequent sequel(s), rest upon the idea of multiple time travels through wormholes which enable Tim Burton to effectively create any number of bizarre twists and turns in the plot. The lack of any kind of explanation, or plausible logic that can be deduced from simply watching the film as it is, however, without a sequel, make it seem ridiculous. Furthermore, I haven't noticed anyone mention it so far, (though I haven't read every single reply, so apologies if I'm repeating it), but why on earth did Ape City seem to comprise of approximately 90% Gorilla soldiers, and only about 10% every other species of ape? Also why was it necessary to have such a huge army with such elaborate armour, when the only apparent threat they had ever faced was from a small number of malnourished, weak and unarmed humans who seemed to spend most of their time in cages or running around the forrests scavenging food.

  • Aug. 31, 2001, 8 p.m. CST

    POTA Ending

    by Mak Weber

    Wow, surprising (not surprising) to see no one got the ending. Simple. Thade didn't die. Pericles was left on the planet. Spaceship was still in the swamp. Pericles knew how to run it. The ex-general gorilla had said that Thade would never stop. Thade gets Pericles to show him how to work the ship and goes back to earth and changes everything. Why so much confusion?

  • Sept. 4, 2001, 9:28 a.m. CST

    ADT100; yes and no

    by DeeJay

    Adt100... again, there were some key logical differences is POTA pt 3 and this new version. In the original, the apes were not gentically engineered (their mutation, though not fully explained, was most likely brought about by the post-war radiation). Their revolt was unexpected, and only done for the sake of liberation. In short, they won the battle, but not the war. It was implied that the humans eventually overcame them, and then had a nuclear war of our own (this self-destruction prompted our de-evolution and allowed the apes to eventually lead the land). As it stood in the new version, the chimps didn't have the numbers to mount an effective liberation, nor to proliferate their population without inbreeding. Regarding the ape army... I agree with your point (that was something my father and I discussed after leaving the theatre). In the original, the gorillas were more like police that were converted to an army. In this latest version, they were simply an army that magically created steeds of their own. It was also nice to know that Tim Burton didn't worry about Quantum Theory of time travel, as he informed us that a self-expanding wormhole has been sitting near our orbit all this time...

  • Sept. 4, 2001, 8:20 p.m. CST

    Incorrect Logic

    by HiTechLowLife

    *SPOILER* I was with you Harry until the logic at the end, if you look at the time read-out at the end of the movie it goes back, just about as far as it went forward in the beginning, so he could not have gone forward in Earth's future a couple of thousand years. Also, the Lincoln Memorial statue gave thanks to General Thade, meaning that Thade had to have gone to Earth at some point. Also one could come to the conclusion that the apes took over Earth and did not evolve there because only the face on the Lincoln Memorial was changed and not the clothing,so either General Thade was present in the time of Abraham Lincoln on Earth or Apes took over and they changed all idols to resemble apes not humans. My personal opinion is that Tim Burton just threw that in to mess with our minds. Any Planet of the Apes fan looks hard into the meaning of everything, that is what we learned by watching the original movies, but this seems like they just wanted to throw in a twist and if they are pressed to make a sequel they will figure out the story line at that point. Harry you are right on the money, a bunch of us are upset!

  • Sept. 6, 2001, 2:35 a.m. CST

    Refining the ending explanation

    by Muj

    Ok, think about the ending where General Thade goes back to Earth and arrives before Marky, thereby revolting and gaining control of Washington. The question I have seen asked before was how did the general leave the ship? But the 2 things we don't know are: What happened at the space station after the first 2 pods disappeared, and what happened at the planet after Marky left. Isn't it possible that other pods were launched? Either in an attempt to rescue the missing Marky ( more important now than finding a missing chimp, isn't it ) or in an attempt to save themselves from the oberon imminent destruction? Isn't it possible that some of these pods would arrive after Marky's left, thereby bringing in crew members who could open the locked station door and at the same time giving Thade and a few other Apes ( male and female ) the means of coming to earth and maybe arriving before Marky and taking possesion of Washington DC and maybe the entire planet? Couldn't these newer pods even bring some interesting gadgets to help the Apes dominate the earth, like ultra powerfull neutron bombs, so that when the Apes finally land, the humans are already exterminated, except for the ones that remained in the Planet of the Apes ( which are also descendants of the Oberon, right? ) There you go guys, the story does have a meaning and the sequel is on its way...

  • Sept. 7, 2001, 4:58 p.m. CST

    was it intentional?

    by thetaste

    i thought this was a fine film, though the native humans lacked substance, which was the only low point of the film. but i think it strange that the apes and humans would let wahlberg leave to go home, if he got there they would not have existed.unless i missed something. the ending i did like straight from pierre boulles novel.

  • Sept. 10, 2001, 8:27 a.m. CST

    Some Problems with Rationalizing This Story

    by DeeJay

    1) "Isn't it possible that other pods were launched?" Remembering that all pods and crafts coming through the anamoly landed in reverse order, they would have landed before Wahlberg arrived on the planet. 2) "...thereby bringing in crew members who could open the locked station door and at the same time giving Thade and a few other Apes (male and female ) the means of coming to earth and maybe arriving before Marky and taking possesion of Washington DC and maybe the entire planet?" If the station were salvagable, any halfway intelligent crew would have spent their time fixing it instead of tinkering with Monkey genes and raising Monkey babies. This is not only due to the fact that sustaining the Monkeys (feeding and giving them water) would have been too time-consuming, but also because they lacked the requisite skills (oppsable wrist, specific engineering training) needed to salvage the station. 3) "Couldn't these newer pods even bring some interesting gadgets to help the Apes dominate the earth" Although no other pods *could* have come afterward, a crashed pod would have been destroyed and a safely-landed human in a pod could have taken over the ape planet single-handedly (he/she would've had the only functioning gun on the planet). Never mind the fact that sending *another* pod after Wahlberg would be a move that only Beavis and Butthead would attempt. Once again, I would remind people that the film's ending was not truly consistent with the book's. The book played on operative theories of subjective time. This means that there were periods of time *suppression*, but no instances of time *travel*. The film had time travel that was neither consistent with quantum travel or any thing that makes an iota of sense. As it clearly wasn't Tim Burton's goal to make a coherent film, it's frivolous to try and find logic in this movie.

  • Sept. 11, 2001, 4:30 a.m. CST

    You're wrong about the ending harry!!

    by Napolean Solo

    Firstly, if he went into another time jump but landed on earth, what was Thade doing there?? That Abraham Lincoln statue was Thade. I think he went back to earth but when he left Thade was still alive in the Oberon. Thade must have found another pod there and went to earth but further back in time then old Marky Mark. Because that statue was definately Thade!! Secondly, I like how you use your imagination to better the missile launchers on Boba Fetts back, but when I go see a film, I don't want to use my imagination to deliver the GOODIES the film was supposed to like in Planet Of The Apes. With regards to Mark Whalberg, he is the sole reason why the apes aren't thrilling, because he isn't scared or rattled by them as the protagonist so how then could the audience? You can't compare seeing talking apes for the first time to having a flat tire on the Highway. Anybody would have poohed there pants. He was just like "Talking apes... interesting. Now where do I catch the bus home". The one thing Tim Burton should have taken from the old film is Charltons utter amazement at this mad world. At least at the end where he finally gets home and everyone is apes... show him break down or SOMETHING!!! All human beings have emotional highs and lows, Mark Whalberg had one dimension through the whole movie (if only women were like that). The whole movie he happened because he went to look for his monkey, then he just gave it away at the end. Also Tim Burton done an Alien 4 on us. He introduced the apes to quickly so there was no build up!! You don't treasure a womans virtue when you get it on the first night (as sexist as that sounds, it's true). Do you remember the build up to the apes in the first one and I'm not talking about just ripping it off but there are things that a director should do to an audience cinematically that Tim Burton forgot. Anyway Rick Baker delivered the goods but Tim... Get your dirty paws off the next one you- know the rest

  • Oct. 9, 2001, 12:17 p.m. CST

    Very underrated movie

    by darthflagg

    It paid respect to the original while offering those weird touches that Burton does so well. I&#39;d like to see Moriarty or someone review the DVD release.

  • Nov. 26, 2001, 2:53 p.m. CST

    Official explaination of the ending

    by brian_prothero

    The Planet of the Apes DVD (an excellent DVD btw) included a color card that includes an excellent diagram of the timeline that explains the ending of the movie for those who are kinda slow and couldn&#39;t figure it out on your own. If you don&#39;t have the DVD, then you can go to the official POTA website (www.planetoftheapes.com), there is a link to takes you to a new page that gives the official explaination to the ending of the movie. It is just as I had figured on my own... and the hints were right there the whole time! If you analize the sequence of the events, the ending makes perfect sense and was a brilliant ending that played homage to Conquest of the Planet of the Apes and the original novel. If you think about the order of events, based on when Pericles, Davidson and the Oberon enter the wormhole/time distortion and when they appear, it becomes obvious that time is warped by the wormhole (makes sense as gravity DOES affect time). The later you leave earth space, the earlier you arrive in POTA space. Pericles left first and got there after Davidson. The Oberon left last and got there first. The reverse is true as well. After Davidson left the POTA, General Thade studied the Oberon&#39;s databanks and learned about space travel. Pericles taught him how to fly Davidson&#39;s Delta Pod salvaged from the swamp. He then left the POTA in persuit of Davidson (remember that he was told by the old general gorilla that Thade would never stop hunting him). Due to the nature of the wormhole&#39;s time distortion, General Thade arrives on earth long before Davidson crashes on the steps of the Licoln Memorial. In the time between Thade&#39;s arrival on earth and Leo&#39;s arrival, General Thade had lead a rebellion and turned the earth upside down with the apes as the ruling species. The apes then erected the Thade Memorial in memory of General Thade. It is unknown just how early Thade arrives on earth; but based on the Oberon ancient crash, it is very possible that Thade arrived on earth 1000&#39;s of years before Davidson returns. This is plenty of time for his enhanced genes to be mixed into the simian gene pool allowing the primative apes to evolve/mutate into the highly intelligent speaking apes we saw in the final scene of the movie. Burton&#39;s commentary doesn&#39;t come right out and explain the ending, as he doesn&#39;t want to nail the details down too much and get in the way of the writers of the sequel, but he does explain that the ending as shown was the only logical ending to the movie and that they worked out the logic of the ending even before the movie was filmed.

  • Jan. 18, 2010, 5:33 p.m. CST

    I am from the future!

    by bobbofatz

    Actually Burtons Apes remix turns into a bit of a cult classic and guilty pleasure in the future, but his Willy Wonka remake was below average. ps He makes a huge come back with Alice in Wonderland. See ya in the future. humbly yours bobbofatz of the future

  • July 14, 2010, 8:02 a.m. CST

    I too am from the future

    by HarryBlackPotter

    and Fox are about to make a new Apes movie which is called Rise of the apes, which you'll see in theatres in 10 of your earth years - if your reading this in 2001!!!!

  • July 23, 2012, 7:28 a.m. CST

    Hello, fellow time travellers!

    by Shaun D Lyons

    I'm from the year 2012 and it's like living in a mad house I tell ya! We got Rise of the Planet of the Apes last year, and it was superb. A proper prequel about Ceaser and how...hold on there brother, don't spoil it for them. These folk have got to wait 11 years until they see it! So goodbye from the future where we all have flying cars and have vacations on Uranus! P.S. The planet Pluto is no longer a planet in my time. It's a dwarf planet and doesn't count - can you believe that? Oh, and just wait to you hear about the Higgs Boson Particle. It's gonna blow you minds!