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ADDITIONAL COMMENTS: More on STAR WARS EPISODE 2 at Comic Con!!!
Hey folks, Harry here with a better look at the STAR WARS Sansweet panel in San Diego... Our first scooper, CatDaddy gives it to us fairly straight, while Right Bastard has become fed up with the love it or leave style fanboys, the ones that approach film with a righteous indignation. And this folks is one of the reasons I don't do Star Wars on the site much anymore. It has nothing to do with anything other than the fact that ever since Episode One hit, there is a viciousness to Star Wars fandom that I find rather distasteful. Sure STAR WARS EPISODE ONE was not what many of you wanted, but why the hatred and anger at those that did like it? Why is it so impossible to appreciate the concept that while it might not be right for you, it was perfect for others? Well, I don't expect it to change unless Lucas makes Episode 2 to be the best damn film we've ever seen... We'll see....
Hey Harry,
CATDADDY here. I haven't seen much coverage on the new Star Wars footage
and I didn't think it was properly covered on the Star Wars web site.
Wanted to let you in on a few things that were missed. Most importantly,
were the behind-the-scene clips featuring Hayden Christiansen, Sam Jackson,
Natalie Portman, and a bunch of other Obi-Won looking jedis all shooting,
kicking and slashing on a dirt floor. They were all surrounded by blue
screen. I suspect that this is the rumored gladiator scene and from the few
clips shown it looked kick ass. Also Natalie Portman looks awesome. She
was wearing tight white pants and boots with a white half-shirt and silver
rings around her forearms. She looked great, mixing the classic Princess
Leia look with a sexy costume.
Also shown were images of Jimmy Smits in robes, Jango Fett and all the rest
of the cast. They showed Obi-Won's ship, which was a mix of an X-Wing and a
Star Destroyer. Sansweet said that Lucas wanted these episodes to show a
natural progression to the familiar images fans recognize from the original
trilogy. Therefore we'll see lots of new ships and symbols that look
familiar (like Obi-Won's ship) that will foreshadow what we all know will
eventually come.
The film CONNECTIONS was cool, but short. WHile no new footage was shown
there were lots of good interviews. Hayden Christiansen said that the most
difficult thing about playing Vader was combining what Jake Lloyd brought to
the character, with the images of Vader that we all know from the original
STAR WARS series. He was hoping to find a middle ground that would connect
the two performances.
That's that. Also, I've read very little about the MR. SHOW panel which was
awesome. One hour of non-stop laughs. They showed clips of RUN RONNIE RUN
which, although New Line keeps pushing it back, will entertain anyone who
likes Mr. Show.
You've been warned.
CATDADDYAnd here's someone that is falling out of love with fandom....
Hi Harry, Moriarty, & Quint,
"Right Bastard" here. I wrote this to be posted, or simply for your
personal enjoyment. It's my review of the episode II preview...well sort
of. I wrote it in 20 minutes, because I'm supposed to be working.
(read every Steve Samsweet quote with a radio announcer voice)
When I was at the Steve Samsweet presentation of Star Wars Connections at
the San Diego Comic-Con on Saturday, something was very wrong. Mark Altman
(Free Enterprise) hit the nail on the head the next morning at the "Can Trek
Be Saved?" panel, where he said that it felt like being in Nuremberg. Steve
would say with an unctuous affect that,"Star Wars is back, and it's back in
a big way,"...and the audience would cheer. Then he would announce the
Phantom Menace DVD's arrival...and the audience would cheer. Then he would
show clips...and the audience would cheer, like the salivating Pavlovian
dogs that they are.
I learned very interesting things at the Star Wars presentation. The more
that people at Lucasfilm treat Star Wars as a "money producing vehicle", the
less I want to be associated with that series. They get a used car salesman
on the mic, whose job is to make us believe that he actually thinks that the
Menace was a good movie. I've seen the "anti-Jar Jar" version, and I've
seen the re-edits, and they still can't fix the major problems with the
film. The lack of depth in the characters, the lack of emotional moments,
and the lack of story.
More important, I learned of the the danger of fanboys. The die-hard
zealots who always end up hurting the cause rather than helping it. These
people seem to fall into two sub-categories. First there are the
critic-fanboys. These people are the ones who ask the EVIL lucasfilm
representative questions with a directly insulting inflection. Guess what
kids? If you insult the guy from the studio who is actually willing to
listen to you, you won't accomplish much. When the fanboy gets on the mic
and says, "Was lucasfilm disappointed in the hatred of Phantom Menace?", how
did you think Samsweet was going to respond? Of course he got defensive,
and quoted the figures of the Menace being one of the highest grossing films
of all time, yadda, yadda, yadda. Think tact when asking your questions.
Ask something more to the point, like why was the film so strongly marketed
to children, and have follow-up questions ready when he gives reply #2.
(Reply #2: We feel that the Phantom Menace was marketed to all groups
equally, but Phantom Menace was primarily a vehicle to bring in a whole new
generation into our universe).
An great example of this is when the fanboy asked a good question,"Why was
the line 'you're lucky you don't taste very good' changed in the special
edition of Empire?". The reply was basically, "because the sound editor
wanted to". The kid didn't follow through with further questions to engage
Steve, and really make him think. (A better question would have been "Why
was a really lame Goofy 'ah-hoo-hoo-hoey' scream added into the special
edition of Empire when Luke took his noble plunge, ruining the strength of
the moment?")
The second (and more harmful) fanboy was the dedicated sycophant. People
who, if you gave them a piece of pooh with a "Star Wars" label on it; they
would buy it, put it on the shelf, and talk about Lucas' genius for coming
up with such an idea. This point is proven by how many pre-orders there are
for the Phantom Menace. I view these people the same way that I look at
religious fanatics. The have the structure of the world fitting to a
certain mold, and cannot deviate from that, or the world they have built
will crumble down around them. These are the people who say that since I
don't like the Phantom Menace, I'm not a true fan. (My reply is usually,
not liking the Phantom Menace is what makes me a true fan). These are the
people who pretend that kids like JarJerk, and that he did indeed need to be
in every scene. Who thought the sports announcers during the Pod Race were
funny. Who thought that the out of sink Asian overdubbing on the Federation
Aliens was a neat idea.
The reason these people are scary is that they were the ones who were
standing up and clapping at everything that Samsweet said. "I have a piece
of gum on my shoe." clap clap clap. "I tell yah, I've seen clips from Ep.
2, and they are great" clap clap clap. What do they expect him to say?
"I've seen clips from Episode 2, and they suck serious ass!" Of course he's
not going to say that!
Even more dangerous were the uber-sycophants who want to impress the
lucasfilm guy by showing "how much they know", and asking nitpicking
questions. "Why was Mace's light saber blue in the book and purple in the
preview?" who cares? "How old is Jango Fett and how old is Bobba Fett?"
shut up! "I got a secret script that says the ending of the film
is...spoiler...is that true?" die fanboy scum! "I read an internet rumor
that..." anyone asking this question is no longer is allowed to have
opinions.
What did I learn at the SDCC? After attending it for the past seven years,
I learned that I can't stand fanboys. In my younger years, it was almost a
badge of pride. Now, after this Star Wars presentation, and the mean
treatment that people gave John Carpenter (see Quint's day three article), I
view fanboys with pity and shame. I was embarrassed to be in the same room
with some of these people who were "representatives" of the general
Comic-reading public. Here's a bitter pill for some of you to
swallow...just because you like Science Fiction and own a computer and may
be a geek/nerd, it DOES NOT mean that you are intelligent or that you have a
critical mind. At the end of the day they are just movies and stories, so
as Shatner said on SNL, get over it and get a life.
As for the Episode II stuff. The preview looked o.k, but so did the Phantom
Menace previews. My ass will be in the seat because Natalie Portman was
wearing a yummie belly shirt...now THAT IS giving the fans what they
want!!!!!! I will not line up. I will not go opening night. I may even
wait for a matinee. The Menace and the Special Editions hurt me, but that's
a whole different letter. If it's as good as Empire (pre-special edition),
I'll shell out my cash and see it again and again. Lucasfilms should be
warned...the salivating fanboys will give them the money they want, but the
people with higher standards are going to be even harder to please this time
around.
(I'm normally a more thorough writer...but I'm at work now)
Right BastardAnd now we will hear from SPACE WHORE...
Harry
I was at the Star Wars connections presentation on Saturday, and I read some
of the coverage about it and I was totally disgusted with the negativity for
Star Wars that some "alleged" fans have. One thing they all fail to miss is
that George Lucas IS a genius and until they can make a better Star Wars
film they can sit down and take a number.
(in George Lucas' world, there are probably frog like creatures that talk in
high pitched tones, and people just need to accept that. Yes he is annoying
but he is critical.)
Anyway, one thing that everyone seemed to skip over in all of their reviews
was not only the sheer enthusiasm of the ENTIRE audience (including the
naysayers) but also some of the cool imagery and interviews that were
presented. One of the coolest was a jedi knight with two lightsabers
follwed by about ten shots of random jedi knights twirling lightsabers,
these guys seemed like stuntmen for some cool fighting and then they gave us
just a tiny glimpse of what seemed to be some bluescreen stairs with a
number of dead jedi laying on them, and another jedi falling to his death.
One of the other cool things that we saw was some fisticuffs between Obi-wan
and Jango Fett.
The most powerful imagery that wasn't visual was the explanations behind
Obi-Wan and Anakins friendship, and they are going to explore what would
have torn their friendship apart to the point that Obi-wan would consider
his best friend dead (from a certain point of view) and that Vader would
revel in murdering his best friend. It was amazing listening to Rick
McCallum and Hayden Christensen talk about what was titled "The Original Odd
Couple" (I think that was the caption)...
The other cool thing was Samuel L. Jackson stuttering, trying to explain how
"awesome" this film is going to be. One interesting explanation that Steve
Sansweet gave was for Mace Windu's now purple lightsaber. It was at George
Lucas' whim at Sam Jackson's request. And this only came about in April
during reshoots.
One thing in Right Bastards ridiculous write up was the fact that he smeared
some facts about WHY Ben Burtt changed the line from Empire. Admittedly I
sorely miss this line as well, but Steve Sansweet explained that Ben Burtt
was going through all of the original sound recordings and picked the one
with the highest quality for reasons of the THX sound standards. He had
also been supposedly talked to about it many times. He knew he made a
mistake but as far as the sound mix went it was unavoidable. But Right
Bastard trying to impress his point from the "I'm a Star Wars fan but I
don't like Star Wars" group left out all of the facts.
And I don't like being labeled not a Star Wars fan because I liked the
Phantom Menace. Phantom Menace was good for a lot of reasons and although
at the beginning it didn't feel as comfortable and homely as the classic
trilogy it was because we'd all seen them hundreds of times. Watch Phantom
Menace hundreds of times and you'll start to appreciate the way you should.
And I like Jar Jar. So what if he was for the kids, so were the ewoks.
And the only reason I wrote this right up is thanks to Quint. I had the
pleasure of meeting the crusty seaman at the Dreamworks booth just before
Stan Winston showed up. I explained to him my frustration with lame-o talk
backers and wiener head fan-boys that would flame me when I'd write
something that would get posted (three or four things I've written) And he
explained to me that they weren't important. I was one of the Fanboys
asking questions in Quints write up of stan winston from day one.
Thanks
SpaceWhore
(yes thats a man behind that name)
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+ Expand All
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STAR WARS is why I love movies. I love it, and I cant wait for Episode II, and there is nothing anybody on this site or any place can say to make me feel otherwise. When I think of it, I feel like a good and happy person. I love it, and I love waiting for Episode II.
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No matter what, this movie will make tons of money; people who hated phantom menace will be looking for redemption, people who loved phantom menace will want to see it again, so this very well just could be George Lucas farting on a tin can, not that I care, while I liked the StarWars trilogy (Empire rocks) these are just movies!
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I've been GLAD at the brief respite from Star Wars news, if only that it meant a break from having to see all of the hissing and spitting in Talkback. I used to LOVE being part of the Star Wars fan community. AICN talkback (and that's no fault of yours, Harry) has nearly driven that love out of me. I don't want to be part of a community that screams at each other. I want to have interesting discussions, like some had on Talkback after A.I. came out. Thanks for printing this testimony. - - -
The Grin -
I know Mace Windu cuts off Jangos head but how much do you think Lucas is gutsy enough to show?
Anyone read the script? I'd like to talk about scenes with people ( certainly about the lack of good lines in the script ). -
.....Your on a site that promotes and touts fanboy movies,you go to a mainly fan driven event,sit and atch what could only be called sicophantic panels,and you say you hate fanboys.???? i'm perplexed,Your exactly what you say you hate.Look into the mirror bud, and accept the fanboy that's looking back at you, because it is you.By the way was Travis Charest(wildcats) in attendence?
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Jul 24, 2001 9:02:56 PM CDT
Right Bastard, it is a dangerous thing to confuse "opinions" wit
by alexanderdelarge
Just because you didn't enjoy Episode I doesn't mean people who did are either a) dumb or b) just fooling themselves. In my opinion, that is the kind of thinking I'd expect from a very immature person, the kind of guy or gal who will think there's such a thing as an absolute truth. Just because you didn't enjoy Phantom Menace, it doesn't mean smart people can't like it. Smart people have been known to have very different opinions from each other, you know. The patronizing tone you use while speaking of Episode I fans pretty much discredits you (in my opinion) as one of those geeky fanboys who could definately benefit from some time to question their beliefs throughly before spouting them as "the way it is". That and your "My ass will be in the seat because Natalie Portman was wearing a yummie belly shirt...now THAT IS giving the fans what they want!!!!!!" comment is what makes ME not want to be associated with someone like you. I suggest you go looking for "splosions' and titties" elsewhere, and grow the hell up and realize your opinion is not the only one that matters.
(excuse my english if I made any typos or anything by the way, it's not my first language) -
Jul 24, 2001 9:10:43 PM CDT
Lucas doesn't give a shit about you guys he just wants your damn
by bari umenema
He's the most greedy person in this or any other galaxy guys, gals, aliens, androids, etc. GL could've made a decent ep. 1 but all he really cared about was making as much money off of it as possible. If that wasn't evident to you when you slobbered all over it in your seats after camping out on the sidewalk for a week then you're a moron who deserves to be ripped off. ep. 2 will no doubt be better but since we know it has Jar Jar Stinks in it how good can this cash cow really be in the scheme of things? A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back were great, ROTJ sucked and so did TPM. If Lucas wants to redeem himself for the ages we will have to see how these next and final two turn out. Poor George, he can't help it, he was born with a rusty spoon in his mouth and ever since his deprived childhood he's wanted to strike it rich. Now he has but that's not enough, he wants to become Bill Gates rich.
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And still live in hope that, George will f***ing snap out of it, forget the tedious cartoony slapstick and make the saga cool again.But I don't think it's going to happen.
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It couldn't be that they are self-obsessed assholes, could it? People who think they know better than anyone else? Nah, of course not. Anyone who liked TPM must be a Lucasfilm kiss-ass. It couldn't just be that no opinion on a film is EVER or CAN EVER be fact, and that people's opinions are often very differing. But far be it for me to deprive trolls of their personal fun. Rip away. Prove how YOUR opinions are somehow factual.
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Last I checked he doesn't play in the NBA or MLB.
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SPOILERS. What the fuck is with that shit about Episode 2's Boba Fett being a little 12-year old shithead? That is fucking BIZARRE that Jango Fett wants a 12-year old boy(Boba Fett, the first clone) in exchange for allowing himself to be cloned for the CLONETROOPERS. Especially in light of the Michael Jackson and Paula Poundstone "controversies".
I suppose we can take solace in the fact that Mace Windu gets MEDIEVAL on Jango Fett's ass and head, for that matter. Mace Windu decapiting Jango Fett will top me off after seeing 'splosions and titties. -
TPM is the second highest grossing film of all time and made a billion dollars. I don't care how hyped up a movie is, if it's no good the box office returns will show it. Look at Wild Wild West, Pearl Harbor, Godzilla, you couldnt get away from them for a damn year before they came out and all were box office disappointments. Obviously, somebody liked TPM.
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meesa gonna be old
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TPM is the second highest grossing film of all time and made a billion dollars. I don't care how hyped up a movie is, if it's no good the box office returns will show it. Look at Wild Wild West, Pearl Harbor, Godzilla, you couldnt get away from them for a damn year before they came out and all were box office disappointments. Obviously, somebody liked TPM.
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SPOILERS. What the fuck is with that shit about Episode 2's Boba Fett being a little 12-year old shithead? That is fucking BIZARRE that Jango Fett wants a 12-year old boy(Boba Fett, the first clone) in exchange for allowing himself to be cloned for the CLONETROOPERS. Especially in light of the Michael Jackson and Paula Poundstone "controversies".
I suppose we can take solace in the fact that Mace Windu gets MEDIEVAL on Jango Fett's ass and head, for that matter. Mace Windu decapiting Jango Fett will top me off after seeing 'splosions and titties. -
There will be assholes on these talkbacks who will whine and bitch about something. Episode I was a damn fine movie. Flawed? Sure, but there are flaws to every movie. Everybody hates something, and it seems all that hatred is summed up by these talkbackers. It's disgusting.
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Thank you Brian2000 for stating what I feel so perfectly. Right Bastard: Go fuck yourself. If you didn't like Episode I and know (without seeing it) that Episode II will suck, why waste you valuable time at work (ha) to write about such bad movies? If you don't like it why did you even waste your time going to see the Star Wars Connections exhibit? Could it be you just want to hear yourself piss and moan about "Luca$" and you decided that Episode II will not be good without giving it a chance? Fuck you and all of the other "real" Star Wars fans that have to be killjoy assholes.
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Jul 24, 2001 9:41:44 PM CDT
All right. I didn't like Ep. II all that much; however--
by sith lord jesus
--all this talk about Lucas being a greedy so-and-so is CRAP. He's *not* greedy (No. He's NOT. Deal). You guys wanna know what greedy REALLY looks like? Attend: If Lucas were really truly the money-grubbing whore pig everyone makes him out to be, he would not have make the first three films and then stopped for a friggin' eternity and then started making three more. He would have milked that cow to death and beyond throughout the past 2 decades. He would have been cranking out a mediocre SW flick every 2-3 years since 1983, and subjected us to four, maybe five VOYAGER-level T.V. series set in that universe. There would have been new toys ALL the damn time and Holiday Specials EVERY year. By now, most people would have been as burned out on STAR WARS as many are on Trek, and the whole concept would be watered-down far worse then PHANTOM MENACE ever was. Does all this sound familier? One word: PARAMOUNT. Take a look at how they treat their syphilitic old whore STAR TREK if yaz wanna know what greed REALLY looks like. In my opinion TPM had problems simply because Lucas was rusty--he hadn't written/directed a film for (10? 15?) years before the new SW flick, and it showed. Hopefully he's got his space legs back and this next one will be better. But even if it sucks total ass it WON'T be because he just wants to line his pockets. Sheesh.
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--"I Didn't like Episode *I* all that much." Mea culpa. But my point still stands.
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Natalie Portman looks amazing in this film. Sexy. I'm a kid who wants to see lightsabers, fast ships, cool aliens and Natalie portman's navel. Could care less about true fans, psuedo-fans, former fans, classic fans,and every new up and coming trend setting star wars positive or negative "but i'm still a fan in disguise" sometimes fans...therefore: Princess Leia's Bikini and Natalie Portman's navel...simple.
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Does anyone know any good sites that have coverage of it? email me coedipus@hotmail.com
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I don't know. There was no vibe going into The Phantom Menace, despite the cool trailer. Now that the brat's been replaced by an N Sync member, and Boba Fett enters the picture (who the fuck is Jango? Don't answer that), there's ingredients for some kick-ass-ness, more than the "tent pole" scenes of the pod race and the lightsaber duel that sort of propped up TPM. ANYway, maybe I'm setting myself up for more disappointment, but I feel strangely confident. Lucas made three awesome movie, fouled on the fourth - can we all be good fans and hope that the fifth gets back near (if never equal to) the level of the classics?
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Sure, I was disappointed with TPM, but that doesn't in any way diminish how much I enjoy Star Wars in general. The first two movies are among my favorite of all time and I really hope Lucas can rediscover the magic by next summer. You don't like all the commercialization? Don't buy the toys, games, or the Happy meal. Just go to the movie, enjoy it if you can, and move on. Being entertained is what's really important anyway. It's just a movie and not something that will bring us world peace, end hunger, or help Marlon Brando lose weight. Just my two cents.
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I will be in line the first night and the same for Episode III. I do not fit into the categories he described, I loved IV, V, liked VI for the most part and was disappointed in TPM but the new films are still something I look forward to. No matter what, it's still Star Wars and I keep hope alive. I have to believe that it's possible for Lucas to pull out another one or two good Star Wars films. For the next two films he has help with the writing, Jar Jar is in less scenes, and there are no annoying child main characters. Episode I for me was just the set up for the series so it was going to be the least interesting one. In the end, the same fan boy types are going to be around no matter how good the next films are. The uber fan boy will love it and the anti-fan boy will hate it. Lets just hope it works for the rest of us.
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First Darth Maul's demise is ruined, now this...your all bastards! Damned spoilers. Damn I'm an asshole for even straying into this talk back. Someone please pop up and say those scripts aren't real!!!
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Seriously he's diabetic, his enormous neck pouch is a symptom of either the diabetes or the medication he has to take for it. Episode II will be twice as good as Episode 1 was but it still won't be nearly as good as The Empire Strikes Back. Neither will Episode III for that matter. And think of poor Harry, he's royally pissed off that there will never be a final Trilogy now, Harry feels ripped off that he'll never get to see Han, Luke and Leia in their old age! But don't be down Harry, 10 years from now Lucas may decide what the hell and give you your Final Trilogy to make good on the original plan of doing 9 Star Wars movies total.
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The Shadow Falls? That's my favorite of all the possibilities.
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now this is alarming..a blend between darth vader and young "lloyd" skywalker..uh, "i find your lack of faith disturbing..yippieee..!!" how?
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All TPM showed me was that the original trilogy stands on its own, in a 70s/80s time capsule as a piece of my childhood that I loved and still love. To you who attack or defend the new series of Star Wars so rabidly, do what I did---Grow up! So what if TPM dissappointed me on so many levels? So I saw some cool stuff, too? Big fuckin deal. When I go to Taco Bell and get a Pepsi in the Jango Fett cup, then I'll gulp it down, aware of just how irrelevant Star Wars is now.
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I'd like to add that most of us were children when the first SW set of films came out and that seriously clouds our judgement and attachment to those films. Comparing anything with them is bound to lead to disappointment, and evn viewed form a different perspective, they will suck. I think the trick, with the new films, is to think like a child and have no expectations. These films are not made to have the same impact on adults. Those films are made by Michael Mann and Adriene Lynn.
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Jul 25, 2001 12:04:43 AM CDT
Natalie Portman's Navel? Big Deal! You have GOT to see her N
by mayhem ensues
NOT FAKES. Apparently she went topless at some beach in the Caribbean while on vacation. Guess she didnt realize that the Paparazzi are EVERYWHERE. But her naivety is our good fortune. Anyone that cant see the website above for any reason can email me at MayhemRulez@aol.com and I'll send the pictures (jpg's) to you.
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This is in direct response to Harry's retort that we (fans of Starwars who hated Ep1) find that "it so impossible to appreciate the concept that while it might not be right for [us], it was perfect for others."
My argument, in short, is that Episode I is the sigular downfall of the Starwars universe.
As fanboy and fangirls, it can be said that we feel any sycophant who feels the need to mouth off the on the genius of George Lucas in his current money-making vehicle is doing us a disservice.
Until Episode I, we could say that we loved Starwars. All of it, including the side characters, and ships, and technology. People would nod their heads, understanding why we could love Starwars.
Episode I killed all of that. It was a blatent attempt to fool those who fell in love with the movies when they came out to shell out hard earned cash to a multi-billionaire. When I say that I like Starwars now, I am meet with giggles, snorts, and funny looks. And it is all due to this movie.
The blind fanboy, who follows George Lucas where ever he goes, is supporting the creation of flaming pieces crap like Episode I. It shows that there is a market for cash cow movies, and George will keep on producing them. However, if the fans speak up that the movies are shite, and that we wont support them, Lucas would be forced to produce a good, quality film that we all can be proud of.
Because in the end, thats all that it comes down to. -
All you suckers who whine about TPM lacking emotional depth and character development should remember that the original SW wasn't excactly Ingmar Bergman. It was naive and delightfull and at the time it came out, there was nothing like it (at least not done at the same level at professionalism). Seeing Star Wars at the age of ten still stands for me as the greatest movie experience of all time. It seems to me that those who were disappointed in TPM somehow thought that it could even approach the impact that Star Wars had on kids and young people at the time it came out. We have grown older and we have since seen films by directors such as James Cameron, Joe Johnston, Joe Dante, Peter Hyams, Ridley Scott,
Roland Emmerich, Robert Zemeckis, Ivan Reitman, Ron Howard and of course the mighty Spielberg - all of whom are influenced by lucas, and all of whom raises the bar in terms of the SciFi genre. So when the original master returns we expect the impossible.
I thought that TPM was a damn fine piece of entertainment, to a large extent captivating the spirit of the first film - but nothing more. I look forward to Episode II! -
EPISODE II looks to be NUMBER I at the box office and in audience's hearts! The magic of STAR WARS will be with us...always...in the form of brand new adventures that will take us to a whole new galaxy of thrills, chills, and stellar excitement as only George Lucas can deliver! This summer 2002, your journey to the Fun Side will be complete!
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Jul 25, 2001 1:18:22 AM CDT
Mayhem Ensues that link does not lead to "real naked pics"
by billybobhoyle
Those pics are so fake dude. She does not have big breast. :(
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i draw my sword and stand by your side St. Buggering, in the fight against ignorant "starwars-haters"..well, there's noone giggling when i say i'm a starwars-fan..or giving me weird looks for that sake. Image is nothing, stop frontin George Lucas.
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1) George Lucas made Episode IV the kind of movie he himself had always wanted to see. George Lucas made Episode I the kind of movie he would like his kids to see.
2) Before Episode I, being a Star Wars fan was like being a Beatles fan. After Episode I, being a Star Wars fan makes you something akin to a Elvis lookalike fan.
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Dudalb, is it really you?
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as a rule I dont get involved in the sw debate. Yeah im a huge fan of the original trilogy. Know why? i was a fucking child when I saw them. As an adult the movies are still fun, but come on morons. Each movie had bad acting, dialogue bordering on the absurd, and silly ass moments. Return of the JEdi? Ewoks? I love you? Im sorry you shitwads think the original trilogy was Lawrence of Arabia, but it wasn't even close. And you bitch at the phantom menace. It was as good as Jedi. Get over it. Its just a goddamned chessy b-movie with a big budget. And its all gravy baby. Know take this knowledge and spread the truth across the land knuckleheads. PS Natalie portmans little fun bags look delicous.
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I think people are entitled to their opinions, but it's arrogance to believe people are obligated to yours.
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I was merely satisfied with Episode One. It had some parts that felt draggy and boring, and it seemed me more plot than story, but there were just parts of the film that were cool, beautiful, and that just made me laugh out loud in recognition. That balances things out for me.
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There was also something to the experience of watching a movie in a crowded theatre, as opposed to the fairly sparsely populated theatres I've seen most movies in. It was a thrill to do that for the first time. (the second time was with X-Men.)
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I think it would have been a wonderful thing, had Episode 1 started the whole thing off with a bang, with better characterization and all. But I recognize that taking a 20 plus year vacation from being an active filmmaker can have its effects. --------------------------------------------------------------------I think Episode 2 will be better, and I think Lucas does take criticism with the proper weight. I just don't think a guy who moved his headquarters to San Francisco to get away from the the rest of the filmmaking community is going to perform a public Mea Culpa. He's too strong willed for that. He'll listen, but he will do his own thing. -
Exasperating. Enjoy what you will. If the cinema continually disappoints, go somewhere else. Read a book. I like STAR WARS cuz it's all fun, even if the meaningful moments come in the classic trilogy (favorite line's gotta be: "So be it...Jedi"). As a series, it requires very little from me. I never got into the expanded universe nonsense (mainly b/c I don't want to believe that SPOILER BEGIN--- Palpatine didn't really die when I thought ---SPOILER END). These are pleasant fictions,and E2 really sounds like it is going to knock our socks off. I agree with the person who proclaimed feeling a strange confidence about this one. I also agree that 1) if you liked E1, you are not automatically a Lucasfilm ass-kisser, and 2) that if you didn't like it you are not automatically a turncoat or somehow a better fan. As if we have any power whatsoever to do anything. Did everyone turn to the Dark Side here or what? Peace.
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Jul 25, 2001 4:57:00 AM CDT
Way to go SpaceWhore, I'm with you, I LOVED TPM and can't wait f
by elwen
I'm starting to agree with Harry and I can now understand why he has stayed away from posting SW-related news. It's people bitching all the time that ruin it for the rest...
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This talkback proves harry's point. I loved the Star Wars MOVIES. Note the word MOVIES yes ladies and Gents *shock* *horror* these are FILMS we are talking about, not the fucking cure for cancer, nor the plan for world peace in three easy steps... MOVIES!
Anyone who gets so het up about *someone else* liking / disliking Phantom Menace / Ewoks / Jar Jar should grow up and get a damn life!
And no George Lucas is not a Genius, he is a Director of a series of films....
This will probably stir up a hornets nest of flames and rants from the Star Wars zeltots of which the internet is full...
but considering that I will never come back to read this stupid arsed talk back ever again I dont mind terribly.....
This has been a reality check... time to grow up people! -
I Have respect(?) for these people because of the good films they made in the 70's & 80's.but since those days they have slowly been making the most skewed and shitty movies put out.why, you ask? well I think that their "style"of making movies was the kind that didnt use multi million dollar effect shots to enhance an action shot. the effects capabilities in the 80's early 90's were mediocre, which made them actually think about developing a "good" action sequence which involved real things and not a blue screen...watever
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AND I M STILL COMPLAINING
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Jul 25, 2001 6:37:02 AM CDT
The problem with San Diego now is not necessarily the "fanboys/g
by smugbug
its the fact that so many people are attending this event that the mixture is of fanboys/gals and people who, well, are very curious as to what the hell goes on at SDCC. The majority of people booing John Carpenter on Saturday's panel were not ALL fanboys/gals. I seriously believe that. Walking about this year I met alot of people who had never been to SDCC before. But yes, some of the rabid fans were quite annoying, too.
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Jul 25, 2001 6:39:49 AM CDT
ASSERTION: JEDI is, and will always be, the worst Star Wars movi
by first
Posting in Star Wars talkbacks is a futile endeavor, as the lunatic fringe (such as myself) take them over almost instantly, flooding the board with their drivel. Nevertheless, I have to say this: RETURN OF THE JEDI WILL BE REMEMBERED AS THE WEAKEST INSTALLMENT OF THE SERIES. That's right. Not Phantom Menace. Not episodes II or III. Return of the Jedi. The only things that Jedi got right were the final space battle (still really well done, even by today's standards) and the Vader/Skywalker duel. But the whole Han-Solo-in-Jabba's-clutches sequence is a fairly horrible resolution for the great set up in Empire. And I feel the Dagobah scenes are fairly horrible as well. But none of that compares to the nonsense of the Endor scenes. I can accept the crappiness and implausibility of the Gungan/Federation battle in Menace. You got the idea that, if nothing else, the Gungans really were an army. Maybe the trade federation bought some crappy robots, right? Whatever, in any case, the Ewoks are never presented as anything but primitives that have spears, fire, and rope. (And NO, it's not a wonderful allegory representing Vietnam. The Viet cong had MIG fighters for god's sake!) Anyway, all of this merely adds up to a lackluster movie. That's fine, but it's a HORRIBLE ending to the film series. With all of the politics that are being introduced in the prequels, in addition to the few things mentioned or implied in the originals, what kind of resolution is Jedi? The republic isn't restored. Planets aren't liberated. No matter how hated the empire is, they've still got all of those star destroyers and tie fighters and stormtroopers. Plus, all the "regional governors" are still in power, right? (NOTE: I have no idea if this stuff has been addressed in other media. I'm a fanboy loser exclusively with the movies. I don't care about the books, comics, etc... All that matters to me is that the films are internally consistent.) So what happened at the end of Jedi? Did the news of the death of Palpatine spread across the galaxy and everyone rose up and overthrew the crooked leaders on each world? Ridiculous. Palpatine was powerful, but not so much so that he could have quashed a galaxy-wide uprising by himself and an apprentice. So his other enforcers are still out there. So basically, I feel that the resolution to this whole saga is uber-lame. You can JUSTIFY it easily ("The story is about Darth Vader. The trouble in the galaxy is just the backdrop"), but that won't ring true if you watch all six movies in order when they're completed (and I know many of you are just that pathetic. I am.) Anyway, you heard it here first (probably not). A remake of Jedi (with nearly an entirely different story) would be a wonderful thing, though it will never ever ever happen. See if you think I'm right in however many years it takes to complete this saga... ?
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Wow this is the funniest damn thing I've ever seen in my life. I feel like I'm at a Baptist tent revival. "Cast all the evil fans of TPM into the fiery pits of hell, ruled by the cloven-hoofed Lucasfir", and what-not. If we could somehow harness all of the psychic energy boiling around in the brains of you guys, we could solve that whole energy crisis thing and Dubya wouldn't have to kill any caribou and drill in Alaska. I think that there will soon be a whole new officially recognized psychological disorder "post-phantom depression". I will reiterate what has already been said a couple of times, the trilogy was so amazing because you saw it for the first time when you were six. If you had seen TPM when you were six and had never seen anything like it before, you and your geeky little friends would still be talking like Jar-Jar to this day. The joy that is still gleaned from the original three movies is, to a large extent, simply nostalgia. If any of those movies were to be released in the film climate of today, they would be considered cheesy and probably flop. I loved those movies, my first memory of seeing a movie was Empire when I was five years old and they'll always hold a special place for me, but get some perspective. I really enjoyed TPM because I tried to go into it with the same mindset I had back in 1980, open. It was a fun kind of a rollercoaster ride that gives us some background on the original story and characters and sets up the stage for the whole epic drama to come. This is the longest freaking talk-back I've ever written, but I feel the need to combat zealotry when I see it. Actually, keep freaking out, because it's sure fun to watch.
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None of the Star Wars movies were in the calibre of I, Claudius, let's make that clear, but Lucas did state during the SE interviews that back in 77 he hoped the original would fare as well as the Planet of the Apes movies.
Now, were those films aimed at the under 7 crowd like TPM?
Not a chance.
In the pre release PM interview with 6o minutes Lucas talked about how Star Wars was condemned as a B movie. He pointed out that the Godfather was also a B movie.
Then--once TPM came out and got hammered in the reviews, THEN he said it was aimed for the 7 year old crowd.
Sure, the first 3 were juvenile entertainments, but they did strive to have at least some cross generational appeal.
TPM failed miserably at that.
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Um, okay, 101st. Whatever.
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I have always viewed the term "fan boy" (or girl) with something close to wary dread. I feel it an all too fitting description that fans described in these accounts can seriously damage the credibility of franchise admirers as just either a)mere sheep to be "exploited" (if one wishes to use such Marxist terms) or b)embittered, hostile, unrealistic rejects who aren't worth the time to research or market to, due to their overwhelming cynicism._________________________That said, I think I come down somewhere in the middle. In the aftermath of a forced denial, I finally was able to admit TPM was in my true opinion a medicore film, when compared to the original triology--not hell on earth, not the absolute lemon some regard it as, but medicore, given our expectations. However, in taking a look at the story for Ep. II, my hopes haven't dimmed, nor has my enthusiasm for most things SW.
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This same thing is happening right now with AI. The people who don't like it, who feel it's too vague and too "cute" have no clue why anyone would like it(but they THINK they do), so they look down their noses at those people. And those who like it are too put off by the negativity to offer any real counterpoints. A lot of it is just about taste! What can you forgive or what can you accept? Now sure, TPM had it's problems. I don't agree that Lucas is a "genius" storyteller. He has his moments and they were damn good ones. But he let a lot of good opportunities slip by in both TPM and Return of the Jedi. As a business man though he knows his stuff. He knew that of all the prequels, the only one that wouldn't be a dark downer was the first one, so he programmed it to be the most "fun" adventure of the three. That meant a few added childish elements like Jar Jar. But TPM also had very poor character development and some very crummy dialgogue. I don't think kids would have been put off by a thriteen-year old Anakin, or a Jar Jar that made sense when he talked. And I think it was a mistake not to make more out of Qui Gon Jinn since in the end he was the heart of Episode One! We don't have a handle on who Queen Amidala is when she goes before the Senate yet we're supposed to sympathize with her. She's been cloaked in secrecy for the whole movie, and we haven't really seen anything from her point of view save for that too-brief moment at the window on Naboo. These were my problems with the story and charcters, and I don't think I'm crazy or misguided to feel as I do. But a lot of this is subjective, and I know it. It doesn't make those who liked it better into jackasses, or the people who liked it less for that matter(it's when they start acting like theirs is the only correct view that they become asses). And being critical of TPM DOES NOT MEAN I'M ANY LESS OF A STAR WARS FAN!! There were plenty of nice things in the film! Pernilla August was a wonderful presense, I thought, as was Ian McDiramid. Why am I even saying anything? Talking about Star Wars (or AI) at this point is like talking about religion. The only popular view is to hate it, and if you don't just do that then you're a target of abuse.
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Well written. I, too, have raised the bar for Episode II. George has to make it better than Empire, or there will be no Episode III for me. BTW -- The only reason I saw Menace a second time was I couldn't believe it was as bad as I remembered it being the first time. But it was and then some...
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After being locked in the insane asylum, Mr. Glass comes up with a wonderful new fantasy that he is a jedi knight. This explains the use of a purple lightsaber, as it is quite well known that Mr Glass' favourite colour is purple. This also proves that George Lucas was the evil mind behind Mr Glass' plot to convince David Dunn that he had super powers.
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It's just a friggin movie.My God i wish the only thing i had to worry about was what color light saber Sam Jackson used.Its just a movie,you know to entertain people ,not to change our lives.Some of you 'fanboy" people need to watch that trekkies movie,because thats the faces i have in my head when i read your crazy talk back comments
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Great report. My sentiments exactly! Harry, this guy is good - we all should welcome alternative viewpoints to this site. Here's a guy who really does like Star Wars, but is very dissapointed in the mass marketing monster the series has become. He vents his dissapointment in entertaining and humorous ways. Keep 'em coming Right Bastard! Oh, and caracass9, you make a good point - I too saw TPM a couple of times to try to find out what I really felt about it and how it fit into the Star Wars universe I have come to know.
Sadly, it was a dissapointment. Not a really bad movie, but nothing special. "Meesa loves me some..." aw, fuck -it, I not going to go there. -
Right Bastard here!
Wow! I didn't know I was soooo negative!
I was afraid to read the "talk back", because I knew that it will be killing me...and it was.
I didn't really think through what I wrote because I was pretty emotional at that point (which I don't think diminishes the point of my rant).
I didn't mean to imply that Star Wars fans who like the Phantom Menace are NOT fans. I was just tired of the inquisition telling me that if I didn't blindly accept the Menace as cannon, that my opinions were no longer valid and I should be crucified. I also didn't mean to say that people who liked the Menace don't have taste, rather state the fact that those who didn't like it are and will be harder to please (at least when it comes to Star Wars). I admit I did say that in a...pointed way.
Where did these emotions come from? As I said, spending four-point-five days with some of the greatest creative minds in the arts, and watching how rudely and the fans treated these people who were giving up their time to speak to them...FOR FREE, no less; really took it's toll on me. Some people, like Kevin Smith, Matt Groening, and Joss Wheddon, can hold their own. Other people, like John Carpenter and John Krisfalusi, don't know what to do when the fans ask the insulting questions (I felt like hiding every time someone brought up R&S to Krisfalusi). Thinking about the treatment the fans gave to some of the guests, and then seeing the praise they gave to others really began to eat at me.
Then we get to Star Wars. I know you can say this is unrealistic, that I am crazy, and this will never happen; but I prefer movies to be and expression of artists' vision that they struggled to express, rather than as a marketing product (which is why Brazil is the greatest movie made IMO). That is a personal preference and my opinion (then entire premise behind this site...movies are about the entire experience, and critics opinions carry the same weight as anyone else's). IMHO, at the Saturday panel, Star Wars was being sold to us, rather than shared with us.
I will always look at substance over style. I would rather see two stick figures having an engaging discussion for two hours then see twenty minutes of "really cool special effects the likes of which we've never seen before", if those effect have no purpose. I'm a big technophile, but special effects for the sake of special effects will never add stars to my review. That is why I found the Special Editions distasteful. I feel that they represent the equivalent of colorizing film. When the directors shot film in B&W, they set up shots in such a way to utilize the medium they had to work with. When the original trilogy was made, they were forced to innovate to put their vision on the screen. I wouldn't mind the special edition so much, if they hadn't stated that the originals "will never be seen again. The Special Edition IS now the definitive version of Star Wars." Well, sorry if I appreciate it more for what it was at the time than what it can be now.
I know very well that my views don't jive with a lot of people...but that's why I'm a right bastard. If I am in the minority...I know at least a few people agree with me. (The 30% of the crowd booed when told that JJB was going to be in the next film for even a "diminished role") I wrote this same letter to Harry earlier and promised that if I ever get the chutzpa to write you all again, it'll be a something positive to show that I'm not a total curmudgeon.
Thanks, Harry, for sharing my opinions/rants~
I'm NOT anti-Star Wars.
If you like TPM, I still love you...you crazy fools, you know that LOTR is going to kick ass!!! (If you haven't seen Bad Taste or Dead Alive, then you haven't seen Peter Jackson at his best!)
RB
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DAMN...YOU GUYS TAKE THIS WAY TOO SERIOUSLY. I LOVE THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY, EVEN "JEDI", WHICH ALOT OF YOU SEEM TO HATE. I DON'T READ INTO PLOT HOLES AND STORY ARCS OR ANY OF THAT ARTISTIC CRAP WHEN I WATCH A STAR WARS MOVIE...I LOOK FOR COOL CHARACTERS, GOOD ACTION, AND SOME HUMOROUS MOMENTS. PHANTOM MENACE LACKED COOL CHARACTERS..BECAUSE IT NEVER REALLY DEVELOPED ANY OF THEM..IT RELIED MORE ON CHILDISH HUMOR AND ACTION....BUT STILL A MOVIE WORTH SEEING. GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSES AND GO TO THE OPERA IF YOU WANT ART.
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Jul 25, 2001 12:49:45 PM CDT
This is the Saddest Cross-section of Humanity I have ever seen..
by maijin
Come on, people, this is just a TAD bit much, don't you think? This talkback frightens me very much. Dare I say it's even worse than the TREK talkbacks. I'm just waiting for Lucas to spit out these next to prequels (good or bad) and call it a life. Then maybe someone can get started on making the next BIG SPACE EPIC MOVIE SERIES...DRAGONBALL Z. Come on, tell me you can't see a live action, big budget DBZ series so totally being the next big nerd movie franchise...
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Jul 25, 2001 12:51:10 PM CDT
SORRY, BOYS BUT TPM WILL ALWAYS BE THE WEAKEST SW FILM OF ALL TI
by bladerules
Man, that retched piece of dogsh*t The Phantom sh*tter will always be the weakest SW film of all time. Not only that but it's by far the weakest "science fiction" film of the past decade. Poor character development, no direction, and the most annoying character in the history of motion pictures, Jar Jar Stinks! Let's remember little boys, that The Phantom Menace is the first SW film to NOT win a single academy award. Not only that but it was nominated for WORST picture at the 1999 Razzie awards and nominated for several other awards including a win for WORST supporting actor for, you guessed it, Jar Jar! The Matrix, on the other hand, was totally cool, and won every academy award that TPM was nominated for including BEST SPECIAL EFFECTS OF 1999! It had one of the best science fiction scripts ever written and The Matrix trilogy is sure to kick the living sh*t out of the lame @$$ SW prequel trilogy. The ONLY way for the prequels to even come close to being near cool again is the lose the kiddie element and the KILL JAR JAR IMMEDIATELY! Until then, bow before the Wachowski Brothers, the new rulers of science fiction!
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Jul 25, 2001 12:51:16 PM CDT
SORRY, BOYS BUT TPM WILL ALWAYS BE THE WEAKEST SW FILM OF ALL TI
by bladerules
Man, that retched piece of dogsh*t The Phantom sh*tter will always be the weakest SW film of all time. Not only that but it's by far the weakest "science fiction" film of the past decade. Poor character development, no direction, and the most annoying character in the history of motion pictures, Jar Jar Stinks! Let's remember little boys, that The Phantom Menace is the first SW film to NOT win a single academy award. Not only that but it was nominated for WORST picture at the 1999 Razzie awards and nominated for several other awards including a win for WORST supporting actor for, you guessed it, Jar Jar! The Matrix, on the other hand, was totally cool, and won every academy award that TPM was nominated for including BEST SPECIAL EFFECTS OF 1999! It had one of the best science fiction scripts ever written and The Matrix trilogy is sure to kick the living sh*t out of the lame @$$ SW prequel trilogy. The ONLY way for the prequels to even come close to being near cool again is the lose the kiddie element and the KILL JAR JAR IMMEDIATELY! Until then, bow before the Wachowski Brothers, the new rulers of science fiction!
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I mean really, is there a person on the face of this planet that didn't hear the vocally disenchanted SW fans? But with all due respect, what the hell do YOU know? Have you made anything close to the SW trilogy? Or the Indiana Jones trilogy? Or Willow? How about Howard the Duck? Anything -that- good? If there is anything we can learn about the SW film's history, is that generally speaking, critics never get "it" until years later when they have no choice but to notice it's fully armed and operational fan base. I mean really, while there were many glowing reveiws of ANH as good special effects showcase with little substance, there were a bunch that thought it sucked complete ass. Here is a quote from the NY Times. ""Star Wars: A film with comic book characters, an unbeleivable story, no political or social commentary, lousy acting, preposterous dialouge, and a ridiculously simplistic plot, in other words, a BAD MOVIE" Then The Empire Strikes back came out and the critics seemed to feel that it didn't live up to it's predescessor. Without a resolution, many felt it lacked the punch of the trench run. There were actually some hard core SW fans who were upset that Yoda was a muppet voiced by Miss Piggy. Man, if the Internet was as far along as it is now, I am sure there would be web sites showing Yoda graphicly discected by Vader's saber. And forget ROTJ. By then the critics weren't even pretedning to be nice. Suddenly, the bad performances didn't live up to the bad performances in the other two films, Lucas was once again forsaking good old fashioned filmmaking techniques just so he can blow up the death star better than he did in ANH. I beleive the "Ewok's" legitimacy as a part of the SW saga is still in dispute. Well now we have TPM, and guess what? It is a really bad film with 2 dimensional characters, ridiculous plot, lousy acting and no social commentary what so ever. Jar-Jar has to wait in line right behind the Ewoks and Yoda to eventually (or not) be embraced by all SW fans young and old. So you have your money on what you would have liked to see in the prequels? Thats fine. I just think I will stick with the guy who is on a winning streak. Say what you want about how little you found to like in TPM, but it still became the 2nd highest grossing film in the world, which technically is another win for Lucas. How many "wins" do you guys have under your belt? Well then what puts you under the delusion you know more about this than George?
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I do think Star Wars fans are in several camps.
Fly-on-the-wall : These are the guys who could just as well be watching any CGI flick. They think that the TPM was cool and can't understand why people hate it so. It's just a movie for God's sake.
New-Kids-on-the-block : May have seen the Star Wars films on tape. Grew up in the Post-Star Wars world where special effects are no big deal. Like all the cool CGI stuff
Faithful-Flock : Fans from the first films who follow the teachings of Lucas. "If it is Star Wars it is Holy". Might have all the toy figures in their original boxes.
Devastated- Fans : Fans of the original films. Who can remember the thrill of watching these films at a time when there wasn't anything else like them. They were completely new. The stories had a complete world built around them. (Like LOTR books). These fans came into the Phantom Menace with their expectations very high. Maybe that is why the fall was so painful. Within this group are sub-groups divided into the "Five Stages of Grief".
DENIAL - fans who re-edit JarJar out or pretend it never happened.
ANXIETY - "Maybe we came to this movie with our expectations too high. We were only kids for Christ's sake."
DEPRESSION - Having to listen to the dialog on Anikan Skywalker drives you to drink.
ANGER - I think this is the largest sub-group.
GUILT - This is mainly made up of the folks who are swinging back and feeling that maybe they were a little harsh on those aliens with the oriental accents.
ACCEPTANCE - One accepts TPM, warts and warts and looks towards the next movie with lower expectations.
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I do think Star Wars fans are in several camps.
Fly-on-the-wall : These are the guys who could just as well be watching any CGI flick. They think that the TPM was cool and can't understand why people hate it so. It's just a movie for God's sake.
New-Kids-on-the-block : May have seen the Star Wars films on tape. Grew up in the Post-Star Wars world where special effects are no big deal. Like all the cool CGI stuff
Faithful-Flock : Fans from the first films who follow the teachings of Lucas. "If it is Star Wars it is Holy". Might have all the toy figures in their original boxes.
Devastated- Fans : Fans of the original films. Who can remember the thrill of watching these films at a time when there wasn't anything else like them. They were completely new. The stories had a complete world built around them. (Like LOTR books). These fans came into the Phantom Menace with their expectations very high. Maybe that is why the fall was so painful. Within this group are sub-groups divided into the "Five Stages of Grief".
DENIAL - fans who re-edit JarJar out or pretend it never happened.
ANXIETY - "Maybe we came to this movie with our expectations too high. We were only kids for Christ's sake."
DEPRESSION - Having to listen to the dialog on Anikan Skywalker drives you to drink.
ANGER - I think this is the largest sub-group.
GUILT - This is mainly made up of the folks who are swinging back and feeling that maybe they were a little harsh on those aliens with the oriental accents.
ACCEPTANCE - One accepts TPM, warts and warts and looks towards the next movie with lower expectations.
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I do think Star Wars fans are in several camps.
Fly-on-the-wall : These are the guys who could just as well be watching any CGI flick. They think that the TPM was cool and can't understand why people hate it so. It's just a movie for God's sake.
New-Kids-on-the-block : May have seen the Star Wars films on tape. Grew up in the Post-Star Wars world where special effects are no big deal. Like all the cool CGI stuff
Faithful-Flock : Fans from the first films who follow the teachings of Lucas. "If it is Star Wars it is Holy". Might have all the toy figures in their original boxes.
Devastated- Fans : Fans of the original films. Who can remember the thrill of watching these films at a time when there wasn't anything else like them. They were completely new. The stories had a complete world built around them. (Like LOTR books). These fans came into the Phantom Menace with their expectations very high. Maybe that is why the fall was so painful. Within this group are sub-groups divided into the "Five Stages of Grief".
DENIAL - fans who re-edit JarJar out or pretend it never happened.
ANXIETY - "Maybe we came to this movie with our expectations too high. We were only kids for Christ's sake."
DEPRESSION - Having to listen to the dialog on Anikan Skywalker drives you to drink.
ANGER - I think this is the largest sub-group.
GUILT - This is mainly made up of the folks who are swinging back and feeling that maybe they were a little harsh on those aliens with the oriental accents.
ACCEPTANCE - One accepts TPM, warts and warts and looks towards the next movie with lower expectations.
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I do think Star Wars fans are in several camps.
Fly-on-the-wall : These are the guys who could just as well be watching any CGI flick. They think that the TPM was cool and can't understand why people hate it so. It's just a movie for God's sake.
New-Kids-on-the-block : May have seen the Star Wars films on tape. Grew up in the Post-Star Wars world where special effects are no big deal. Like all the cool CGI stuff
Faithful-Flock : Fans from the first films who follow the teachings of Lucas. "If it is Star Wars it is Holy". Might have all the toy figures in their original boxes.
Devastated- Fans : Fans of the original films. Who can remember the thrill of watching these films at a time when there wasn't anything else like them. They were completely new. The stories had a complete world built around them. (Like LOTR books). These fans came into the Phantom Menace with their expectations very high. Maybe that is why the fall was so painful. Within this group are sub-groups divided into the "Five Stages of Grief".
DENIAL - fans who re-edit JarJar out or pretend it never happened.
ANXIETY - "Maybe we came to this movie with our expectations too high. We were only kids for Christ's sake."
DEPRESSION - Having to listen to the dialog on Anikan Skywalker drives you to drink.
ANGER - I think this is the largest sub-group.
GUILT - This is mainly made up of the folks who are swinging back and feeling that maybe they were a little harsh on those aliens with the oriental accents.
ACCEPTANCE - One accepts TPM, warts and warts and looks towards the next movie with lower expectations.
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ITA- Why is it that if you don't accept force-fed crap storylines with a goofy grin on your face, you are labeled a "non-fan"? Just because I am not cutting Lucas any slack for the abomination that was Jar-Jar, that suddenly invalidates my fan status? I like *gasp* intelligent stories, with believable characters. Jar-Jar was a waste of space that did nothing but facilitate the treaty btw the Gungans and the Naboo. There was no reason for us to love the character because he did nothing but serve his purpose. That is not to say that TPM was all crap. I thought it was an okay-movie that served its purpose: setting us up for the characters who would be influential in Eps II and III. It makes sense for Lucas to begin here because it's the first time these characters all meet. But there were some serious weaknesses in the screenplay. And as the fans, it is our right to criticize it if there are legitimate flaws. It's not bashing, it's constructive criticism. That said, I don't condone bashing anyone because you liked it because you attack the fan, not the work. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I just don't understand why people have to pretend that they are so superior to everyone else that they get to decide who is a "fan" or not. It happens too much on most of the Roswell boards as it is. Must it also come over here to Star Wars?
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Is George Lucas one of the greatest filmmakers around? Yes. Does that make him and his films unfallable? No. I'm sick of people saying that whatever George Lucas touches turns to gold.
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Jul 25, 2001 5:30:22 PM CDT
Lucas Sucks without his ex-wife Marcia (She edited both Star War
by bruno diaz
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. No one in Lucas' camp will ever tell him he has a bad idea. Would you? Christ, the man has billions of dollars. The lack of a critical presence in the man's life has lead to what we got with The Phantom Menace, an OK at best Science Fiction movie and an absolutely horrifically terrible Star Wars flik. To each his/her own, but there's no doubting that compared to the others (including Jedi) TPM is a sucking void. It's called collaboration, Mr. Lucas, and it worked wonders for the first three (the original Star Wars had at least two ghost writers, not to mention the editing genius of Marcia Lucas (Taxi Driver, American Graffiti, Star Wars.) Lucas is awesome, but he needs to know his place. That's power.
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The second coming????
Face it fanboys (Yes, that means those of you with no life whatsoever)
Star Wars could never be what you hoped for. You hoped for a miracle like the SW IV when it came out, but it's NEVER -
Jul 25, 2001 6:25:58 PM CDT
Jedi Justin needs to take some critical reasoning courses
by antonio montana
How can you equate box office results with artistic quality? Just because it is the #3 movie of all time does not make it good. If it was a stand-alone movie, it would be nowhere on the list. Phantom benefited from the strength of the trilogy and the anticipation. George Lucas is living off his own spent creativity. Yes, he created something wonderful, however he did not do much with it in Phantom. Jar Jar gets more dialog than Obi-Wan? Multiple fart jokes? The future Vader yelling "yippie" all the time? Racial stereotyping? I think you use the fanboys bloodlust as proof that it was good, because they think it was bad. The general public was quite turned off by it. It does not hold up in repeated viewings. Every marketing partner lost their shirts (PepsiCo, whose execs were very unhappy, and the toy companies, who saw the products in the discount bin within weeks, still being outsold by toys from the trilogy--guess the kids weren't that into Jar-Jar either); and there is definately not the anticipation for ep.II. Bottom line: just because N'SUCK sell 15 million copies of their new record doesn't make it Dark Side of the Moon, jackass. ep I was successful due to anticipation and marketing, not quality and result. Ep II better be up to par (hello George--have someone read the fucking script for you!). Oh, and I am far from a fanboy...actually not that into Star Wars anymore, so I can give a much more neutral point of view...your post and it's cap on the other posters shows your lack of critical thought, class, and taste. Whiny jackass.
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To all of you who say that "if you were six today and saw PM you would love Jar Jar," I disagree. This was one of George's biggest miscalculations. Kids today are much more sophisticated than we were when we saw Star Wars at their age 20 + years ago. That shit was groundbreaking then, something you had never seen. It takes more to impress kids today. Kids are exposed to more, sooner. Most thought Jar Jar was stupid. If you don't believe me, the proof is in the tanking of the merchandise. Jar Jar was one of the biggest disappointments in the toy business of the decade. You don't see many kids wearing Jar Jar shirts, sitting in their Jar Jar bean bag chairs, playing with their Jar Jar dolls. I'm not even going to get into the intelligence insult his character was, I'm just refuting the only argument you can even try to make to defend him--that he was for the kids. Bullshit, give kids more credit. Challenge them. They saw through that shit. George is out of touch with todays youth, and it showed when he created unrealistic dialog for Anakin, and thought he had created the ultimate character for kids (go back to pre-release interviews--he thought Jar Jar was one of the best things he had ever done). It wasn't just the fanboys who thought Jar Jar sucked...it was people who weren't obsessive SW fans who really thought he was stupid.
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Jul 25, 2001 7:05:17 PM CDT
Why did TPM fail? And why did Hasbro release twenty friggin vari
by darthsnoogans
This movie was made for kids, and kids have much more distractions in their lives than we, the ones that grew up with the movies, ever did. Unfortunately, to the kids Lucas was trying to market to with TPM, it just became another cool movie, their favorite until another cool movie came along (which, sad to say, was probably Pokemon: The Movie, which drains any remaining hope I have in the next generation). TPM was decent in my book. It would have been the greatest movie ever to me if I were still seven years old and it was still 1980 and I still only had eight channels on TV to choose from. But since then I have become calloused and hardened by the horrors of adult life, so TPM didn't seem as magical to me as the originals did. I think this also explains why TPM toy sales lagged. Those of us that grew up with Star Wars couldn't get as excited over a new movie that didn't quite meet our expectations, and the kids with their short attention span moved on to their Pokemon figures. Does that mean that twenty years from now, when they release Pokemon: The Special Edition, will we see Pokemon fanboys wasting precious porn-watching time arguing on AICN over how badly they messed with the original? Doubtful. We can be pretty assured that Harry will be dead of a massive coronary well before that happens.
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Good evening. My name is Phat Cheops. Tonight I will be moderating a discussion between Milo and Bob, two of my more dominant personalities. Now, Bob is a die-hard fan of all things Star Wars, and Milo-
MILO: EPISODE 1 SUCKS!!!
Yes, we'll get to that... Milo is anti-prequels. They will be touching on every issue the above talkbackers have pounded into the ground, and will continue to pound into the ground every time someone says "Star Wars". Gentlemen?
BOB: Thank you, Phats. When I first went to see Episode One in the Spring of '99, it was with the anticipation of a truly magical-
MILO: BOB SUCKS JAR JAR'S COCK!!!
BOB: Can I finish, please?
MILO: LOOK, BOB, EPISODE 1 BLEW NUTS! JAR JAR AND MANNEQUIN SKYWALKER WERE THE TWO WORST SCREEN PERFORMANCES OF 1999! TELL ME THAT'S NOT TRUE!
BOB: Well, when viewed in the context of the forces of GOOD being in control of the galaxy-
MILO: OH KNOCK IT OFF! YOU SUCK GEORGE LUCAS' COCK! EXPLAIN THE "YIPPIE"S TO ME, THEN, AND HOW THEY FIT INTO YOUR PERFECT MOVIE!
BOB: Look, I never said it was perfect. I just happen to think the good aspects outweighed the bad-
MILO: WHAT, A POD RACE AND A LIGHTSABER DUEL EXCUSE THE REST OF THAT PIECE OF SHIT?! THAT'S MAYBE 15, 20 MINUTES OF GOOD SCREEN TIME IN A 130+ MINUTE MOVIE! YOU SUCK RICK MCCALLUM'S COCK!
BOB: There was more to that movie than the pod race and lightsaber fights. I liked Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, and Queen Amidala's character development, and while Jake Lloyd was certainly lacking in acting skills or screen presence, I liked the scenes between him and Amidala. There was a genuine-
MILO: OH JESUS! PUKE! LET'S FACE IT, LUCAS WANTS MONEY SO BAD, HE'S WILLING TO WHIP UP ANY AMOUNT OF SHIT IN 2 DAYS AND MAKE IT INTO A STAR WARS MOVIE! CHRIST, IT'S BAD ENOUGH RETURN OF THE JEDI SUCKED THE EWOKS' COCKS, NOW HE'S GOTTA GIVE US PIGDIN-ENGLISH LIZARDS AND SQUIDS WITH JAPANESE ACCENTS! MORON!
BOB: Listen, I've HAD it with your Star Wars bashing! You only like two of the goddamn movies and you call yourself a FAN?! I grew up on Star Wars! I LOVE Star Wars, and I always WILL love it!
MILO: YOU'RE ADDICTED TO YOUR OWN NOSTALGIA! YOU CAN'T SEE THROUGH YOUR HAPPY CHILDHOOD MEMORIES ENOUGH TO REALIZE THAT THE NEW PREQUELS BLOW BANTHA NUTS!
BOB: BULLSHIT! The new prequels are valid entries in the series, and the tone will get darker as the forces of evil take hold, and JUST YOU FUCKING WAIT-
MILO: YOU SUCK RICK BAKER'S COCK!
BOB: YOU'RE NOT A FAN! YOU'RE NOT A TRUE FAN AND YOU'RE WRONG WRONG WRONG!
Well, that accomplished a lot. Thanks for tuning in to this week's Talkback Theater. Join us next week, when our topic will be: "Lord of the Rings versus Harry Potter: Is There Room For TWO Fantasy Movies This Christmas"? For Milo and Bob, I'm Phat Cheops. Good night. -
Damn that was great Conan O'Brien skit...almost as good as "The Brown Dandy". Good night folks!
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who grew up wearing the hell out of Star Wars videos always gets very excited at the prospect of these prequels, but after TPM and after reading enough of the Ep 2 spoilers to get what I think is the big picture, I feel that the prequels are sort of ruining the original trilogy. I don't trust Lucas as a director, and I absolutely detest him as a writer. His original plan from years ago was to have Frank Darabont direct Ep. 2 and David Fincher direct Ep. 3. At least that was the rumor, and it I fucking cheered at that decision. I think that ANH is the weakest of the original trilogy, as it's story is pretty bare-bones - it's just the charisma that seeps out of every frame of that flick that makes it great. Despite what people may say about Jedi, the second two installments had the best story and characterization. I don't think that Lucas can pull it together enough to write and direct all the prequels. I still want to love TPM, but I have to admit, even though I sprung for the widescreen VHS, it's not a great movie. I felt obligated to like it, but it just wasn't good. I really didn't even like the special effects. I'm just desensitized, having grown up on Star Wars, I guess. I think that all the CGI in the prequels is a mistake, as part of what made the original trilogy appealing was that a lot of the effects, since they were actually real (miniature or whatever) looked real and didn't bring to mind what I think is the very obtrusive look of CGI on-screen. I hope that Episode 2 is great and totally repents for the sin that was TPM, but the more cool shit I hear about it, the more my hope also deflates. These movies can never excede expectations, and they were a mistake in the first place. The prequels seem to just suck the fun out of the OT, totally demistifying some of the plot elements that made the OT great. I hope that Lucas has some damn fine tricks up his sleeve plot-wise, because two plus hours of actors in a completely CG world is not exciting. Lucas seems out of touch with what's really happening in cinema right now, and he also seems to forget that his target audience isn't a bunch of little kids - the people who take this seriously are older. The people who want more than just fancy CG are teens and older. But kids won't take shit if it's just lame (i.e Jar Jar, Anakin) and the response to TPM wasn't great. Lucas needs to get his shit together and really just sit down and watch the first three flicks, because I think the fans want more of that same spirit. I'd rather see shitty effects and a great plot and dialogue rather than great effects and a featherweight plot and dialogue. I've gotten to the point where watching the original trilogy has become sort of tainted at the thought of the prequels. Hopefully, Ep 2 will follow the OT formula and be what Empire was to ANH. Otherwise, why even bother making Ep 3. The point of doing a sequel should be to do it better and expand the story and characters, not to cash in on what already is the biggest motion picture franchise in history. And what's Lucas going to do with his life after Ep 3? I would be surprised if he ever directed another movie after that, unless he cops out and makes the sequel trilogy. I wouldn't we surprised at that either, just angry.
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You fuckers ruined Jango's plot points for me dammit! I guess the only way for me to avoid spoilers is by never going to a damn movie site.
Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhh.........still pissed!!!!!!!! -
In all our TPM-bashing and Old Skool SW loving, let's not forget that Lucas only directed ANH and TPM. And you can tell by comparing the two films. Don't compare ESB to any other SW flick because even though the story came from Lucas (among others), Irvin Kershner was responsible for MANY if not most or all of the memorable moments from that film. Remember the ultra-cool shot of Vader's helmet descending onto his scarred head? That was him. The cinematography alone in ESB was miles beyond what you saw in any other SW film. And I'm not talking about "ooh, wow" stuff like Coruscant in TPM; I'm talking about color and richness and depth and stuff looking like it was real and not on a set.
But I digress. The point is, Lucas never was all that as a director. Sure, SW was sloppy, and we forgave him the first time around because he had no budget and he was doing something new. And after all, the film was revolutionary and groundbreaking. But to see the same disregard for character depth or ANYTHING that doesn't tie in to Lucas' Joseph Campbell fetish *20* years later? You'd have thought he could have advanced as a director in that time. The fact is that Lucas loves myths but he can't direct actors. Thank goodness he at least had the brains to cast a few good ones in TPM who were self-sufficient enough to pull off a good moment or two without any direction.
My bottom line (if anybody at all goves a royal rat's arse, and if you don't that's fine):
ANH was sloppy but the coolness of Lucas' vision made up for it.
ESB was the only "serious" SW film, as in a sci-fi flick with dramatic pretentions. But hey, it was the 2nd act.
RotJ was a waste of Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher (Lando and the freaking Wookiee are the ones who save the day!), and the only think that makes Luke watchable is the sheer power of the final confrontation between Luke & Vader & the Emperor.
TPM was an FX wet dream for Lucas. He did Jar-Jar because he *could*. The main character in the first SW flick in 16 years is a) someone we've never met, and b) dead at the end of the film. Gee, way to tie it in to the other films. And BTW, a SW sequel is more than the sum of its cutesy cameos ("oh, look, Artoo and Threepio are illogically and inexplicably meeting for the first time!!") Why do you think my name is "aargh" anyway?
Here's the worst part of all: I'm still hoping that EpII kicks butt. What a loser. -
Well I haven't really remarked on Episode 2 in this talkback so I'm gonna let my uber geeky/insane/pathetic side out for five minutes and write this gibberis...I mean theory of mine. Here it goes: Ahem ahey(cue Simpsons nerdy scientist voice). Given my incredible geekiness I have compared the structure of the first trilogy's titles with what we know of the prequels. Since A New Hope has a similar structure to The Phantom Menace, it's safe to say that any Episode 2 title will most likely mirror The Empire Strikes Back as both are the ah second films in their respective trilogies. Thus "The Shadow Falls," or "A Shadow Rises" or "The Sith Rise Again" are strong possiblities. Chances are that it will be something like "A Shadow Rises" since, as many people have said, Lucas probably won't use two titles in a row starting with "the" as in "The Phantom Menace," and "The Shadow Falls," m'kay? Also, it is very possible that, given this pattern, "Return of the Jedi"'s title will be the template for Episode 3's title, m'hey m'hey. So Episode 3 will probably be called "The Fall of the Jedi." Notice the repetition of the "of the" structure. Thus Episode 2 will not, ah, have the ah word "Fall" or "Falls" in its title so as to avoid too much repetition in the prequel titles. **** Whew! That was fun;^). Yes I take medication.
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Right Bastard had some good points, although calling himself a "true fan" was somewhat ridiculous. Valid points such as the pretentiousness of fanboys and their lack of helpful questions and such have always been apparent. Unfortunately, Right Bastard fails to see the irony of his comments, which rather defeats the purpose of his arguments. He too is one of these nerds/geeks and a hypocrite. Big shame to see so many of you whining and having pathetic little tantrums. Jar Jar Binks was a children's character in a children's film so get that into your heads you fools! Stop bitching and focus on the good points in the movie (yes, there were some). I personally realise that TPM was flawed big time. However, I also realise that this is true of the original trilogy here and there and indeed in almost all children's movies and blockbusters. Stop crying over TPM and look forward to Natalie Portman looking rather tasty in Episode II, I know I am!
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im the last!!! ba hahaahahaa!!!
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Fuck You. Haha
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