Ain't It Cool News (
Movie News

LORD OF THE RINGS -- shooting at Niagara Falls'!!'

Hey folks... Harry here, well an element of the United States will fall into THE LORD OF THE RINGS... well actually... techincally... it will just be churning American/Canadian water twisted digitally into stampeding horses just outside Rivendell... Ahhhh, this should be wonderful looking. When you have DIGITAL DOMAIN picking up a few spares on the effects side... you know you are in good hands... DD is simply one of the best effects studios ever!


      I work at the Cave of the Winds at Niagara Falls, NY.  It's a tourist attraction that takes visitors up to the base of one of the American waterfalls.  Today, I had the pleasure of helping out some of the crew from Lord of The Rings.  Apparently they got in yesterday and were shooting the rapids and the whirlpool in the Niagara River.  Today they were shooting footage of the Bridal Veil Falls which is the smallest of the three waterfalls here.  Peter Jackson was nowhere around as this was just some special effects photography.  One crew member told me that the footage is to be digitally altered and will be used in the scene where Frodo is chasing Gandolf and Gandolf summons horses from the water.  I've never read the books so I'm not sure if I got all of that straight.  Anyway, they had tons of Digital Domain cameras and equipment and seemingly took a lot of footage.  It was pretty exciting for me and I hope you at least find this mildly interesting.  

If you use this, call me Armani.

Readers Talkback
comments powered by Disqus
    + Expand All
  • July 12, 2001, 3:52 p.m. CST

    big rapids...oh yea

    by elsuave

    if your making what will hopefully be one of the biggest and best fantasy movie of all time...what better place to get some shots of some white water then Niagra....

  • July 12, 2001, 3:53 p.m. CST

    LOTR is going to rock

    by FrogsFatA$$

    I just hope they don't go too overboard with the effects stuff like Lucas did with Episode One. This does sound cool though.

  • July 12, 2001, 3:58 p.m. CST

    What a mistake

    by moviet00l

    Personally, I would have convinced New Line that the only place to get the images I need is some beautiful big-wave beach in Hawaii. Hello, expense account! Then again, I guess if they had included "trip to Hawaii" on the bid, they might not have gotten the job.

  • July 12, 2001, 4:02 p.m. CST

    Gandolf; Gandalf

    by Critical Bill

  • July 12, 2001, 4:03 p.m. CST

    Gandolf; Gandalf's mentally impaired twin brother, always gettin

    by Critical Bill

  • July 12, 2001, 4:24 p.m. CST

    NO i dont belive you lotr wont have anything but new zealand in

    by tHEsKAVEN

    NO i dont belive you lotr wont have anything but new zealand in it

  • July 12, 2001, 4:37 p.m. CST

    Lord of the Boring news

    by PANIC NOW

    C'mon Hair, be a little more selective about the stuff you put up!! I'm as excited about the movie as you are, but Mary mother of god in a sidecar wearing chocolate skivvies and a lobster bib, that is LAME INFO!!

  • July 12, 2001, 5:24 p.m. CST

    you forgot a passage dolphin558

    by fladnaG

    "And God said 'get thee off this LOTR TB you dull witted ninnyhammer.' Then he settled himself down for a nice hot cup of tea, I believe it was rasberry flavored, and laughed himself stupid at the shear ignorance of some of his people. God then said 'Well I guess you can't get everyone of them right eh, oh well.' He then proceeded to re-read the Fellowship of the Ring in anticipation for December." It's in the Bible I swear. I can't remember the exact passage but I believe it's somewhere near the back. Malaka.

  • July 12, 2001, 5:28 p.m. CST

    Ya know, sometimes the irony on this site is just too heavy a cr

    by Huneybee

    First of all the talkbacks are posting from backwards (for the most part), so, after you read this, back out and see which headline is directly above this one. THEN, return and continue to read. If my post actually goes to the bottom of the page, you will need to back out, check the headline above this one and be amazed at the little ironies in life.

  • July 12, 2001, 5:29 p.m. CST


    by The Llama

    Good Lord--I'm only going to say this--I'm glad everyone realizes how inanely ridiculous the dolphin person's comments are. I was terrified I was going to see comments about LOTR turned into some religious arguments. Harry--if there was ever a person on here I've seen who NEEDS to be banned, I think we just found 'em.

  • July 12, 2001, 5:34 p.m. CST


    by Hektor

    The Bible-thumping cunt who posted that idiotic and long-winded message needs to shut the hell up. What does that have to do with The Lord of the Rings? Quit quoting an archaic and mistranslated series of myths and superstitions. If you use Leviticus or any of the Old Testament to condemn/critisize/justify anything, then you have to follow it's rules too. Ever worn cotton/polyester blends? THAT'S A SIN!!! BURN!!!! Hey, I better go burn my Magic: The Gathering cards too, right?

  • July 12, 2001, 5:43 p.m. CST

    really dolphin

    by crosseyed nitwit

    Evidently the writer of that lenghty dissertation is not aware that J.R.R. Tolkien was a devout christian and, along with C.S. Lewis, is one of the most famous christian authors of all time. Evil shmevil.

  • July 12, 2001, 5:46 p.m. CST

    Fundie BS

    by Ben Dobyns

    I spend enough time arguing with bigoted fundamentalists in real life. Couldn't I just have one safe haven where I don't have to even encounter asshole literalists who think that they're cool by copying somebody else's irrelevent and academically dubious diatrabe into a MOVIE NEWS forum? You know, it's funny though, many more Christians have tried to claim that Tolkein was a biblical allegorist than the number who have assumed that his works were satanist. Funny, that.

  • July 12, 2001, 5:48 p.m. CST

    Ooh! Who remember that part in "Niagara" with Marilyn and Joseph

    by El Tronerino

    The final scene in that with Marilyn on the steps and...Ooh! Great stuff!

  • July 12, 2001, 6:12 p.m. CST

    Dolphin, you're a total fuckin nut-job. Go back to your compound

    by Monty Python

    Some people...

  • July 12, 2001, 6:26 p.m. CST

    Five months to go??

    by TheGipper

    Is anybody else concerned that they are shooting film (even if only for special effects) just five months from release?

  • July 12, 2001, 6:29 p.m. CST

    Wow, someone smoked a little too much crack this morning

    by Elros20

    How bout that Dolphin folks? Does he understand Tolkien and religeon or what? Sheesh.

  • July 12, 2001, 6:39 p.m. CST

    The Opinion of Darkness Incarnate

    by Mephistopheles

    Well, I see the eternal debate continues.... who is this peon of the Light who calls herself Dolphin? Surely child, you have shown yourself to be most truly My servant, for in the promotion of ignorance, my work is complete. The words of your Mr. Tolkein, while beautiful and poetic, sadly do nothing to further my mission. His works speak of enlightened themes; comraderie among the races, the courage of the meek, the beauty and magic of the natural world... ideas we here in Pandemonium would rather not see championed. But please, servant Doplhin, continue your work. It has not gone unnoticed here, Bhaal in particular was impressed with your attempts to further our cause. Please, encourage others to read and quote your silly little book, to ignore the truths of the world and live in ignorance, it only makes our work that much easier.

  • July 12, 2001, 6:54 p.m. CST


    by vekt0r

    thats funny

  • July 12, 2001, 7:07 p.m. CST

    perfect snark

    by Brutus

    As I read your message, I had the feeling I had read the same sentiments somewhere before. I won't comment on what you wrote and start a religious debate because I feel this is not the place. However, I refer you, I think appropriately (at least for this thread), to That Hidieous Strength by C.S. Lewis for a description of fictional characters (N.I.C.E.) who entirely agree with you. Brutus

  • July 12, 2001, 7:07 p.m. CST

    oh, i just cant' resist jumping on the bandwagon

    by deep 13

    i see the smug words of the self-ritious preaching ang against the evils of those with different views than their own and i think to myself " those AICN posters make that bible-guy look ok." (i know it may be a bible-gal. with a handle like dolfin i guess it's likley, but for simplicity...). now i'm the first one to be offended when someone puts forth the idea that they somehow have the inside scoop on what's going on in god's brain. and that's just what anyone who focuses on one religion while condemning all others is doing. they're saying "of all the beliefs in the world mine is the only one that is correct and therefore i am much closer to god than all you non-believer-losers. i may not get invited to any parties in this life but i'll be making out with the home-coming queen in heaven. i feel sorry for you and i'll pray for you since i'm so fucking great." it is the hight of vanity to assume a human could understand the will of god (if such a being exists). but look at your responces! never in AICN do i see a more united responce of indignence than when someone brings up religion. is there a bitterness that we as a generation all hold in common that makes it so trendy to bash the pious? do we recal our first dissolusionment with whatever institution we were raised with as some kind of 'no santa claus' trauma that forces us to respond to the subject with such knee-jerk venom? and since i brought up the bible-guy's vanity what about our own? anyone who thinks that their insightful soliloque is going to shake him to his foundations and leave him a changed man are as smug and self-important as he (or she) is. end transmition. push the button, frank.

  • Seriously ANYONE who attaches any type of biblical reference to anything of entertainment seriously needs to get a grip. Really. Put that bible down, get out in the real world, eliminate that fear of anything different - and live your life. YOUR life. And stop posting such insanity in anyting on AICN that DOES NOT pertain to religion.

  • July 12, 2001, 7:20 p.m. CST


    by TimBenzedrine

    I assume this means that PJ is including the scene where Gandalph launches into his famous "Sloooowly I turned,..." routine.

  • July 12, 2001, 7:31 p.m. CST

    Dolphin - how do you treat your slave?

    by Dursban

    Dont forget to apply old testament Pentatuech rules and regulations on ownership and proper care of slaves. Jeezus, get off your rusty old broken down wagon and get off our MOVIE TALK BACK!!!

  • July 12, 2001, 7:35 p.m. CST

    dolphin, hello in there...

    by dirty_dishes

    Having a nervous breakdown are we, let me get you some thorazine and we can talk all about your beef with GREAT FUCKING LITERATURE!!! JACK FUCKING ASS HOLE. What did any of that diatribe have to with the vicissitudes of the LOTR shoot? Just a spout-off, huh? I just read the trilogy for the first time recently, and I'm getting all my other friends to read them, they're great. You ever try? No, you only ever read the Bible because it was the only book that wasn't evil, I surmise. WHY, WHY, WHY, WHY, WHY ruin this web-site? You never even made your point. You never said that anyhting was even evil. You just gave a bunch of definitions and provided an appropriate verse number. The only problem is, THE BIBLE IS EQUIVOCAL. For every thing you quoted there can be other arguments found in the same book. Did you know that the authors of the stories and histories of the Old Testament before the coming of Elijah believed in polytheism? And did you know that Jesus was a Jew? And did you know that God planned it so that Saul would die in battle with all his sons (conveniently) so that David could rule? Answer your fellow talk-backers! You owe us for that shit you just pieced together. Why wait for this story to drop a load like this. What did you expect, open agreement and open arms. You'd better lie down for a long time with some loud music playing, how about Stabbing Westward?

  • July 12, 2001, 7:36 p.m. CST


    by ronin67

    excellent piece of literature. If your religion expereiment includes beer sign me up. Dolphin it must suck not being able to think for yourself. The bible is a great book, but it is a book of legends and fables, maybe even the work of some of the greatest con-men in history. Oh well I guess you'll just have to sit a home and watch Omega Code until some other bible thumper wants to waste more money on a piece of shit movie. Whoops I swore... oh well, if i go to hell atleast I'll be with all the rest of my friends

  • July 12, 2001, 7:41 p.m. CST

    Dolphin HAS accomplished a miracle!

    by Huneybee

    He has pretty much united the talkbackers...When was the last time that happened?

  • July 12, 2001, 8:03 p.m. CST

    upon further consideration...

    by deep 13

    it also wouldn't be too far-fetched to suppose that dolphin may have been some wise-acre trying to get everybody all riled up. i wouldn't put it past someone with time on their hands. and it's such an easy subject to provoke people with.

  • July 12, 2001, 8:15 p.m. CST

    God is Omnipotent, Omnisceint, and Omnibenevolent.

    by ManAbootTown

  • July 12, 2001, 8:18 p.m. CST

    There is Evil in the World

    by ManAbootTown

    As you can see, the two subjects I posted are contradictory. Can they both be true? Look it up and get back to me. As for this being the only life and posting on this site is a waste of precious time...blow me.

  • July 12, 2001, 8:56 p.m. CST

    Get thee behind me, Sauron.

    by BG

    I'm missing the old TB all ready. Sure, she was a bit long in the tooth and the posting order went a bit wonky every now and then, but the company was excellent and the posts were joyously free of angry rants and religious fanaticisms. All I can say is thank God I'm an atheist :-)

  • July 12, 2001, 9:51 p.m. CST

    Long-winded opinions...

    by tbrosz

    How the heck can some of you people type these thousand-word religious opinions without dying of carpal tunnel syndrome? You guys must have fingers you can break rocks with.

  • July 12, 2001, 10:56 p.m. CST

    ManAbootTown's Got A Point and if you disagree your an idiot!!!!

    by megaforce_2

  • July 12, 2001, 11:24 p.m. CST

    Opinons are like assholes...

    by MCVamp

    All ya gotta do is go to AICN to see 'em all over the place!

  • July 12, 2001, 11:25 p.m. CST

    upon further consideration...

    by deep 13

    it also wouldn't be too far-fetched to suppose that dolphin may have been some wise-acre trying to get everybody all riled up. i wouldn't put it past someone with time on their hands. and it's such an easy subject to provoke people with.

  • July 12, 2001, 11:25 p.m. CST

    Tolkien and Religion

    by MrBoJangles1

    Although some parallels can be found between the LOTR and Catholosism, this was in no way Tolkien's intentions. I have read many books about him and many have contained personal letters written by him covering this topic explicitly stating that he used no outside influences (i.e. Catholosism and the World Wars) to write his novel.

  • July 12, 2001, 11:29 p.m. CST

    Of course...

    by MCVamp

    This particular asshole still thinks Dolphin dove off the deep end here.

  • July 13, 2001, 12:07 a.m. CST

    Man does not live on bread alone...

    by Sir Mordred

    he needs water too.

  • July 13, 2001, 3:43 a.m. CST

    Re: Perfect-Snark's summation...

    by Vance Castaway

    Agreed. Bravo, sir or madam, well done. A finer dissertation I have not heard in quite a while. Hat's off and all that.

  • July 13, 2001, 4:36 a.m. CST

    The horses & Guinness

    by Kizeesh

    Anyone ever see the Guinness commercial with the horses coming out of the waves all around the surfers? Maybe it was only shown in the UK. It was made by the guy who directed Sexy beast (Ben Kingsley film). and its pretty much hiow the ford scene should look. except they used live horse footage instead of 'water horses'

  • July 13, 2001, 5:14 a.m. CST

    Perfect Snark

    by 9970

    Wow, this guy is brilliant. Finally, after millions of years of evolution, we have a creature who "gets it." I applaud him on his original thinking. Now, I'd like to hear his thoughts after reading C.S. Lewis "Miracles" or "Mere Christianity," or even "The Abolition of Man." Lewis and Perfect Snark have a lot in common. Lewis has been there, done that.

  • July 13, 2001, 5:15 a.m. CST

    DMaul885 - Not a malfunction per se

    by Kaitain

    Snark's reasoning is excellent. As for your objections, there is no reason to assume that someone who criticises a worldview that involves a god or the supernatural is saying that all people who think that way have faulty brains. Largely, it's a case of having "bad software" installed, i.e. theories of the world instilled at an early age which are fundamentally flawed yet whose central tenets usually involve some kind of mechanism to prevent them being replaced by more rational ideas. In the case of Christian teachings, this is that "faith" is a virtue, i.e. you are taught that continual belief in spite of no direct evidence is something for which you should be applauded, and for which you will ultimately receive a great reward. An ingenious mechanism, yet probably one that has evolved rather than been created deliberately by a fraudster, i.e. other rival religious philosophies which did not happen to contain this sort of defence mechanism have simply died out. Richard Dawkins would call a religion a "mind virus" or a "pernicious meme". This is not to say that all religions have no ideas of any merit. However, it seems to me that any merits they might have are in no way connected with them coming under a religious or spiritual umbrella, e.g. there is no reason to suppose morals cannot be argued for without recourse to religious justification.

  • July 13, 2001, 5:29 a.m. CST

    To KevinPhillipsBong

    by Kaitain

    Mr Bong, I think the reason that some people bridle at reasoning that comes from a standpoint where God is a given and undisputed fact is that, effectively (from an atheist's point of view), you are opening the door to letting someone's imaginary friend determine what could be important policy. When this could impact upon, ooh, I don't know (waves hand) important new medical research or something, such thinking becomes more than merely a matter of free speech. And I think what tends to bug atheists is that they're expected to respect the views of those who hold religious ideas, but the religious people rarely respect those of the atheists because they tend to believe they are dishonouring their god by doing so. Straying too far off-topic? Probably so, but at least we're staying civil (I think).

  • July 13, 2001, 5:49 a.m. CST


    by DragthorColorado

    Books are always better than the movies. I highly recommend reading all three books this summer.

  • July 13, 2001, 6:03 a.m. CST

    About Time; What the Hoo Hay; And Yeah Baby...

    by Halloween68

    So, first, about time on the LOTR news. Been a long while since anything has been reported on this site about our beloved films. But I have to say, I'm a little disappointed with the talkbackers here. LOTR talkback has been surfacing all over this site in reports that have nothing to do whatsoever with anything remotely to do with LOTR. I expected a lot of relevant talkback whenever a genuine LOTR post finally did come about. Instead I see a bunch of theological backwash coming from the ass of some bible thumping bastard. Not what I expected at all. I read what Dolphin had to say, and it all looks like grocery sack of ass puddin' to me. BIG NOTE here to everyone involved, Tolkien himself said time and time again, there are no metaphors, allusions, symbolisms, or hidden agendas in any of Lord of the Rings. It is simply a story to entertain. Those people who are continually trying to read something between the lines are wasting their time. Tolkien wrote an extremely entertaining tale for the readers. Nothing more and nothing less. Tolkien was a linguist, a historian, and poet. He was an extremely gifted writer and creative genius. Let the stories stand as they are, and for what they are meant to do. Put smiles on our faces and visions in our minds. Stop with all the analytical back-bacon. I can't wait to see these films. They're going to rock. This report was pretty cool too. I knew WETA was dolling out the CGI assignments, but I didn't think they were actually going to any additional shooting. I thought they were just going to do touch ups on the frame stills. Granted, these might just be shots to help create more realistic CG, but the idea that they are putting so much research into even down to the most last bits of production. Cool. Also, I was wondering if the whole water spirits thing would be actually cut from the film since they were going for the whole realistic approach, and I've already seen several scene photos with black riders galloping through water with no sign of the waters rising or taking shape. I'm extremely pleased that they are keeping the scene as in the book. I'm all for PJ's realistic approach to these films, but I still want to see the magic, both from Gandalf and from Middle Earth itself. Way cool.

  • July 13, 2001, 6:30 a.m. CST

    SPOILERS -- The Complete List of Film Changes

    by AncalagonBlack

    Here is my list of the differences between the films and the books (I'm undergoing a format change, so it's incomplete right now).

  • July 13, 2001, 7:08 a.m. CST

    Whatever it was, it was well-trained

    by Kaitain

    Bong, I hear what you're saying, but I can't agree with your argument. I did say that the opinion of atheists re: "imaginary friends" was just that - opinion. No-one is dealing with establised, cast-iron truth here. However......For all that it is a cliched argument, Occam's Razor is still an attack on the theist position against which I've yet to see a coherent defence. Do I know for sure that when no-one and no kind of recording equipment is looking, green pixies do not appear in my wardrobe and dance around, disappearing without any trace whenever any observer might possibly see them? No. Is it rational to believe that they do? I would argue not. Can I prove that they don't? No. Do I feel that I should therefore keep an open mind as to the existence or otherwise of wardrobe pixies, each being thought equally likely? My instinct would be "no". Your "what if" argument re: stem cell research invites obvious counterarguments. I could tell you that the universe is ruled by a creature called Zibbmonkey who is angered beyond words whenever anyone receives treatment for cancer. Can you prove that I'm mistaken? No. Better not treat cancer, then, huh? What's that you say? Treating cancer has provable real-world benefits? Yeah, but what about Zibbmonkey? Hmmm? (Waves a warning finger.) To Dmaul885, I'll "deus siv natura" you in a minute, sunshine. (Shakes fist theatrically.)

  • July 13, 2001, 7:10 a.m. CST

    MAN this really cheeses me! Did you all bite down HARD or WHAT!

    by Pallando Blue

    If everybody's SO damned eager to let CUT-N-PASTE hot-button-pushing push their hot little buttons to the point of hijacking an entire Lord of the Rings talkback--and the first one in SIX WEEKS fer cryin out loud!-- then I am SORELY tempted to ONCE AGAIN go dig out that hoary old snickering "Tolkien's a Racist" rant--oh yes indeed morGoth I do mean THAT ONE--and have at y'all myself! Everybody PLEASE drop the cocktail party philosophizing--both you pro- and anti-religioners... Yes, I know, pseudointellectualism among ranting assholes is SUCH an ego-booster it's hard to let go, like a white-knuckled 13-year-old boy watching his first Cinemax After Dark... But PLEASE, unclench just for a minute, and take a closer look at the initial bait. You folx got hoaxed like a Kiwi after a PJ "documentary"--sorry, BG, couldn't resist the allusion. Trust me on this, you can't hoax a hoaxer. Not only is it a freaking HUGE post, it's one of the first ten posts of the TB. Knowing how fast these things fill up, especially the big-ticket movie subjects like LOTR (or Star Wars, etc.) do you REALLY think it was TYPED in that time? It was DROPPED IN. The li'l fella's probably had it on his desktop for WEEKS now just DYING for a new LOTR story to plop it onto. Well brava(-o), sir or madam, the TB be thine. Maybe you meant to troll, or maybe it was an act of high irony and you're surprised that nobody "got it." Whatever, you made your splash and the ripples are huge, congratulations. But I am completely embarrassed for the rest of you armchair navel-gazers, holding forth like the worst-written cliched black-turtleneck eternal-grad-student stock sitcom characters. Yes, both "sides." There's a place for everything, and I am NOT an anti-intellectual. But this here is what is known as a [STAGGERING NUMBER OF FOUR- SEVEN- AND TEN-LETTER WORDS] MOVIE SITE. And THIS is one of the few movies I like to TALK ABOUT. So BEAT IT! Take it elsewhere! I don't care where! The prematurely hosed order's bad enough, but scrolling through all your mental masturbatory gymnastics--don't MAKE me mix more metaphors, cause I'll DO it--is just TOO MUCH. I am quite seriously PERTURBED. In fact, I think a random act of vengeance visited upon innocents is called for. Yessss... I tell you all this now: I swear to whatever God you want or concept if you don't want (what's MY spiritual stance? NOT TELLIN) that someday just for the pure maliciousness of it I'm going to COPY TO DESKTOP that silly post with the non sequiturs and Bible quotes and then DROP IT IN a harmless minding-its-own business Star Wars Episode 2 talkback and see if I can ruin THAT one for a few days. I've got nothing against Star Wars or its fans; I AM one, and that movie's 2nd place in my list of hotly anticipated movies with a loooong drop to #3. But unholiest-of-craps I gotta take this out on somebody. I think I'll go register my "Texas_Tower" hotmail account right now. I'll be back for the Tail-end, mellon, no sooner. Toodles.

  • Remember that cult that committed suicide in bunkbeds while wearing purple Nikes when the Halley's comet flew by? It turns out they were the CORRECT religion! Holy shit! Only 17 people made it into Heaven! Who could have guessed?

  • July 13, 2001, 8:11 a.m. CST

    Curiousity to serious LOTR Talkbackers

    by Halloween68

    Hey, if I can steer everyone away from all this Tolkien = Religeous Values stupidity, I'd like to ask some serious LOTR talkbackers their opinion on something. The only think that I dislike about this production so far, other than the occational rhumor that surfaces such as the current one that says that Sauron falls on a spike from his tower at the end of the 3rd movie (which I seriously doubt considering PJ's faithfullness to the books; Sauron doesn't even have a physical form in the 3rd age, and what's the point anyway - he's destroyed when the ring is destroyed; I think someone just saw an image and got confused with what they were seeing; It could possibly be Sauron's fall at the end of the 2nd age, or more than likely it's just one of Sauron's servants dying in a horrible way - perhaps the Mouth of Sauron, one of the Nazgul, an orc lieutenant, or maybe even "Saruman" falling from "his" tower - that would make more since), anyway, huge sidetrack. But the thing I'm most curious about is really the only thing that bothers me about this production, and it's a really tiny thing really. Is anyone else bothered by Gandalf's beard? It just, and this pesters the hell out of me, looks really thin and whispy. It looks really fake. Almost like a halloween drug store beard. I always pictured Gandalf as having a really long, full, white beard. It always added to his mysteriousness and magic. The bushy eyebrows too. But I can overlook the lack of those. Is anyone else bothered by the need for Rogaine on Gandalf's chin. Again, this is just a little thing. But it's pestering. Maybe it'll look better in context of the movie. Anyone, anyone?

  • July 13, 2001, 8:32 a.m. CST

    Yeah, point taken

    by Kaitain

    So, back on topic.....I was thinking the other day about LOTR, and it ocurred to me that maybe the narrative of the three books of LOTR itself isn't actually that enthralling....or is it? Maybe I've read so many wannabes following in Tolkien's footsteps that it's hard to tell anymore. The one thing which Tolkien did better than anyone else (well, anyone else whose stuff I've read) was to make you realise that what you were reading was just the tip of the iceberg, that there was a palpable thrill from knowing there was so many more tales to be told, and indeed many of them ultimately did surface. But of how much relevence to a casual moviegoer is this? If the main narrative now seems to modern audiences to be nothing particularly new, will they really give a toss if others tell them, "Yeah, but there's all this HISTORY behind the story you're seeing here, and all these LANGUAGES worked out, and......" ? Or will they simply see it as just another swords and sorcery flick?

  • July 13, 2001, 8:39 a.m. CST

    It's not fair!

    by BigDogg

    I live 20 min. from Niagara Falls and had no clue this was happening. I actually was in Niagara Falls yeterday doing some forced volunteerism for National Honor Society. If only I'd known... I mean how often does anything happen in the rundown shithole that is Niagara Falls (If you'd been here in the last decade you'd all know what I mean)

  • July 13, 2001, 10:14 a.m. CST


    by neef

    religion is the biggest con ever. Do as I say and you will be rewarded when you're dead? Pull the other one mate, its got bells on. What this has to do with LOTR I dont know.

  • July 13, 2001, 10:39 a.m. CST

    Here you go little fella

    by ManAbootTown

    More than 800 people suspected of being witches have been slaughtered in northeastern Congo, according to a Ugandan newspaper.

  • July 13, 2001, 10:39 a.m. CST


    by journalist

    I use to live in Buffalo, so I took dozens of Western New York visitors to the cave of the winds, which is a long corridor that takes you right under the falls, but you have to wear full black rain gear. It looks like a bunch of Satanists walking down the hall to do who-knows-what. So not wanting to miss an opportunity, I took a photos of my last visit to the cave of the winds and sent it to my mom (the Catholic) and on the back I wrote,

  • July 13, 2001, 10:45 a.m. CST

    sorry about that dolphin...

    by deep 13

  • July 13, 2001, 10:48 a.m. CST

    2001 animation

    by deep 13

    by the way, i must say that the little 2001 animation up in the corner is very nicely done. nice timing, nice motion. funny.

  • July 13, 2001, 12:08 p.m. CST



    I must agree with 'Perfect-Snark' (if that is your REAL name!) But do you have to use the word DUDE so often? Must be an American thing. I clicked on this page looking for LOTR gossip and found people arguing about religion. I personally love the bible. With such great characters as Frodo, Bilbo and Gandalf! Great read. Best fictional book since that one about the Jesus!!!! I must admit I was shocked that a movie that had nothing what so ever to do with America was actually being filmed outside of America! But it couldn't last! They had to get it in somewhere!!! But Niagara is one of the greatest sights in the World-so we'll allow it! Is anyone worried that all the hype has come about too soon? Book sales have increased the website has had god knows how many millions of hits, and the film is still 5 months away! One thing I would like to know is, does anyone know what the UK release date is? Is it the same as the others (The story is English, based on England, written by an Englishman (ish) written in English! -but I doubt it!)? One last comment for all the Americans out there. If an American President ever needed assassinating its 'W'!!!!!

  • July 13, 2001, 12:23 p.m. CST

    Movie is getting more people to read JRR...

    by gtiboy

    My friend Dave, who I have been trying to get to read LOTR for 20 years now, is finally reading it! Simply because of the movies coming out, and he is so jazzed for them that he wants to know the story now. He is only at the Birthday Party, but so far he says he likes it! Based on the increased book sales, Peter Jacksons work has already paid off, at least for me. I'd much rather have a conversation at a party about the book experience than the movie one - or at least be able to have a movie vs. book discussion. The more people read the books, the more likely that is to be. Wow, maybe one of them will be a GIRL!!!!

  • July 13, 2001, 12:24 p.m. CST

    To Rodney U. Plonka

    by Phoenix

    Hey Rodney! Yeah, "Niagara" with Marilyn rocked. (Hell, anything with Marilyn rocked.) Check this out, for info on the next great film noir to feature Niagara Falls:

  • dolphin wrote: >No problem, mistakes are made. > > >Do you believe in God sir? > > >dolphin(i'm male btw) > dolphin, your message took me aback i wasn't aware that my address was available as i have never used talkback before. i'm posting this as i feel more comfortable outside my personal space. in response to your query: i accept the POSSIBILITY of many unseen things but to express BELIEF is to have a certainty in the improvable that i cannot achieve. that jesus christ walked the earth and told people to be nice to each other is something many historians agree upon. that he was the son of god and rose from the dead is something else entirely. regardless of whether his divine nature was actual or something the early christian mystery cults tacked on later, i find his message : " god is within each of you and you don't need a church to talk to him. if you lift a rock you will find god there" (paraphrased of course) to be a universal lesson and something that the church seems to have forgotten. i suspect that is part of what fuels the popular bitterness towards organized religions. people don't mind if one believes in something but when one has the vanity to presume that their way is the only means to salvation and dispatches missionaries to save the doomed savages people tend to react (understandably) negatively. i treat people as well as i can and i don't think that god (if it exists) cares about whether i'm drinking coke of pepsi while i'm doing it. for god to care about whether or not i tell him how great i think he is every sunday would mean that god has some very human flaws regarding his self-image. end transmission. push the button, frank.

  • end transmission. push the button, frank.

  • July 13, 2001, 1:29 p.m. CST

    Im here to set things a-right!

    by Gandolphin

    Ok not really. I just wanted to respond to Halloween regarding Gandalfs beard. When Ian McKellan was fitting the costume, He and PK decided the beard was just too long for the "Wizzie on the go" you know? Just a little too much 'friz for the wiz' I guess. Anyway, McKellan was too encumbered for the action sequences so they created a realistic set of whiskers for the well travelled finger-wiggler. How do I know this? Go to Ian McKellans home page where he has written about it in his personal diaries of the movie. I dont have the link handy.. .and my boss is coming ...quick..shh.shh...hit enter and change desktops.....!!

  • July 13, 2001, 1:40 p.m. CST


    by Silver_Joo

    Come on you non-believing cock masters. Everyone reads LOTR, they feel the same way about it, they visualise it the same.. Peter Jackson will be no different. The casting is supreme, the scope, the effects... this will put Lucas right back at square one,(if TPM hasn't already). I can't wait, it will make the cinema worth going to, and not a dodgy styrofoam cave in sight.

  • According to the movie that was part of Jesus' own writings that were purposefully hidden and kept out of the bible by the church, so they would still be needed. Have you heard it somewhere else? Sounds like good theology to me. As far as Niagra- I'm glad they're using a lot of natural beauty in this movie, that's what Tolkien would have wanted.

  • July 13, 2001, 2:25 p.m. CST

    Hey Halloween...Gandalfs beard...

    by Gandolphin is the link to Sir Ian's personal diaries recorded during the making of PJ's opus-to-be. See my previous post for the relevance. If you can find it in this unsorted melee of a talkback...

  • July 13, 2001, 2:31 p.m. CST


    by Perfect-Snark

    I don't care how logical or reasonable you try to sound, once you get to the point in your worldview where you try any attempt to say "And I do believe there is some sort of higher power" you lose 100% of your credibility... I'm sorry, there is NO reason other than clinging to something you were taught as a child that you find comfort in, to believe that. Don't try to pretend there is ANY scientific or even remotely sensical basis for that belief, there is not. A lot of people who are quite intelligent and for the most part look at things logically, for some reason decide to be idiots on this subject... they will always give the standard speech to try to show how they aren't some naive religionist, and their theism is a more refined... modern, sensible outlook. They'll talk about how "I certainly don't believe in some old man with a big white beard! ha ha ha ho ho ho" yea great... you can go into as many details about other people's definition of god's and try to play them up as amusing, which believe me they are... but no matter how many apologies and prefaces you put on it, the build up is irrelevant... it all changes and all ends when you come to that final statement about how "BUT I DO BELIEVE IN *SOME* KIND OF POWER" What? what!?!? agh... forget it.

  • July 13, 2001, 2:52 p.m. CST

    Yes , the beard once again

    by Gandolphin there....I've done the link one better. I found the specific reference. If you couldnt tell, I was once bugged by this very issue, but now have found my consolation. The actors and directors still must use artistry and interpretation to render the final product to celluloid. And people will be arguing PJ's loyalty to the book 'til the fifth age and not know the practical reasons behind the decisions. So if this puts just one discrepancy to rest, all the better I say!

  • July 13, 2001, 3:11 p.m. CST

    Finally a LOTR Talkback!!! Izzy's tale of woe and redemption

    by Isidore

    Six weeks ago I decided that I would continue my quest to be the first in line for the opening of LOTR at The Chinese in Hollywood. I left all material possessions behind, not that I had any to start with, and found my place in front of the Chinese theater. No one had taken my place, the fools. So once again I was NUMBER ONE. Initially I had trouble finding someone who would hold my place when I went out to read AICN. So, I abstained. Fortunately I missed nothing, as I would soon find out, when I encountered another homeless man, very similar to my first friend Rusty. He was simply called Bob. I didn't know his last name, but he kept me company, and made sure that no one took my spot when I made my jaunts to read AICN. Sadly there was no LOTR news at all, and I sank in to a deep depression. In my fragile state I forwent all semblences of "normalcy." I quit washing myself in the Burger King bathrooms and began to take the image of a homeless man, just like Bob. Pretty soon they wouldn't even allow me in the restaurants so that I could take a shit. So, I started make trips to the back of the parking lot at the Chinese. Then one day as I was making one of my excursions to the parking lot, I was shocked to discover that I was face to face with GOD. He had come down from Heaven in the form of a millipede, sitting atop a BMW. I knew it was Him for millipedes do not come to Hollywood on their own, and it was confirmed when this tiny insect spoke to me. He told me that He is the one true God and Heaven only awaits those who follow His word. I was truely humbled by this notion that God was speaking to me. Why me? Why now? Then He told me that I must pass the word of His coming as His prophet, for I was the only true follower. And so I did, taking this millipede with me as I went. On the streets of Hollywood I fortold that all must see LOTR as the Millipede told me. Most were skeptical, non-believers cannot hear Him speak, but as I brought out the Millipede, the look of realization swept their faces and soon they ran away for fear that they have offended God. For two weeks I preached this new gospel divined to me. How these movies were the true path and that all who opposed them would be sent to Hell for all eternity. On the 15th day of my enlightenment the management of the Chinese forced me to leave their property. So I made my flight from The Chinese to The Village theater in Westwood, and pleaded my case to the impressionable college youth there. There, and through out the westside of Los Angeles I have found acceptance. Soon I, along with my followers will return to Hollywood to conquer our foes and spread the Word to all man kind!

  • July 13, 2001, 4:43 p.m. CST

    P.S. Dolphin 558

    by Dark Predator

    I hope you get banned for your "jerkwadness."

  • July 13, 2001, 5:09 p.m. CST

    small point, carried over from the last TB

    by wilko185

    Halloween68 says "Sauron doesn't even have a physical form in the 3rd age". Really? One of the creepiest moments for me in the book is when Frodo says Isildur cut off the ring from Sauron's hand and Gollum replies something like "yes, the Black Hand has only 9 fingers now, but they are enough". (Remember Gollum has been interrogated Sauron) So I guess Sauron rebuilt his physical form after his defeat by the Last alliance (when He "wrestled" with Gil-galad and Elendil), and it was (perforce?)pretty much the same form he had previously. In fact it seems fairly clear to me that having a physical form is a prerequisite for being a Power in Middle Earth. eg when Huan beats Sauron in wolf-form ,Luthien threatens to destroy his body and leave his naked spirit to go cowering powerless back to its master, unless he yields his tower. Sauron's spirit can apparently carry the ring back from the downfall of Numenor, but He can't wield it effectively until he rebuilds himself. Or, Melian gained power in ME by taking physical form (ie. her infamous Girdle, a big seller with women over 50 I hear), which she relinquished after the death of her husband.And if you want to get all religious (and who doesn't :-), I suppose this is all consistent with themes of possession and "spirits made incarnate" in Christianity, whereby the Devil gains power in the world. H68 went on to say "he's [Sauron] destroyed when the ring is destroyed" (I'm not trying to pick on you Ha68, honest). No, He was just made impotent. Evil can never be eradicated, just reduced for the present.We must always be vigilant for its return in future generations. I belive this is fairly consistent with Tolkien's Christian outlook.Did he really say LOTR was Catholic (in the narrow sense)? I remember a quote from Tolkien like "as can be deduced from my books I am a Christian. In fact, I am a Catholic". Even this seems to presume some guess-work on the part of his readers. Unlike the Narnia stories (for example) Tolkien doesn't ram anything down our throats, but the message is there for those who choose to see it (applicabilty, not allegory).(Oh,and Dolphin's an idiot, but inspired some good TB from Ceri, Eternal,KevinPB, Darth etc. Nice one)

  • i admit to being a poor bible scholar and couldn't tell you if i am remembering the story correctly. i'm looking for it but time's tight. if i figure out whre it is i'll post it but if anyone else remembers the passage...

  • July 13, 2001, 7:08 p.m. CST


    by Perfect-Snark

    These "non-quantifiable things" you have listed are sort of misleading... anything like an emotion or feeling or idea does have some manner of physical represenation... in the brain there are the pathways and the energy both that could be sited as the physical representation of those ideas. But it really seems foolish to me to try to say since there are such things as ideas or concepts and since they are not quantifiable (something i'm far from agreeing with you on, but for the sake of argument...) that opens the doorway for this whole realm of things that fall outside of the bounds of science and nature or something! your train of thought seems to me to be on some really shakey ground there. I'm sorry but in the end all you guys who try to make any kind of argument for a spiritual aspect to life, have no credibility... I really hate to say that but it's true. You've tipped your hand by even trying to argue for that, it is manifestly obvious when you do so that your true motivations are nothing beyond an inability to let go of ideas that help you get through life... and I am not someone who enjoys the idea of trying to rob people of ideas that are pillars of their whole life or something, but I think in the long run waking up to the reality (not necessarily cold or hard, unless you want to view them that way... after all, the only values anything ever had were those we placed on them, in a system with or without a god) of the situation, and to move on from there. I think a true grasp of our universe will always be better for us than a warped, outdated and wholely absurd one that may (arguably) have some short term benefits.

  • July 13, 2001, 8:47 p.m. CST

    Dam, I was just there last week!!!!!!

    by batman55555

    Why couldn't I of been getting drunk in canada this weekend instead of last!!!

  • July 13, 2001, 8:52 p.m. CST

    oh damn, I guess I'm one of "your" TBers now

    by wilko185

    and what a merry flock it is

  • July 14, 2001, 7:29 a.m. CST

    Frodo does not chase Gandolf....

    by the_don

    The scene in question is when Frodo is fleeing from the Black Riders. It is the last leg of the trip to Rivendale. Frodo is injured and on the verge of death and crosses a great river in the protected forest of Rivendale. As the Black Riders (on horseback) wade through the River to capture him and the ring, Elrond (not Gandalf - spelled correctly) summons the fury of the river and washes the Black Riders away. It is said in the novel that the wave crested in the form of galloping horses to mow down the riders. By the way in your post you say that you have not read the book...Please do so before December. It is the greatest story of all time...You should love it!

  • July 14, 2001, 8:44 a.m. CST


    by MCVamp

  • July 14, 2001, 8:48 a.m. CST


    by Halloween68

    Hey, Wilco. No worries. I know you're not picking. Just some harmless talkback. Here's a couple of things that might clear things up for you concerning my comments that you had disagreement with. One Sauron loses his finger at the end of the 2nd age. That was the "Last Allience." Each age ends in Middle Earth on some big event. It's been a long time since I read Sil, so I don't remember what ended the 1st age. Anyways, it's stated (not exact quotes here but close enough) That when Sauron fell in that last great battle and the ring was cut from his finger, he lost his physical body and became a shadow form. That's why you never actually see Sauron in LOTR. He stays in his dark tower in Morder, his "shadow form." At least that's the way I've always understood it. You see, when Sauron made the One Ring, he put a huge part of his own power into the ring. When he lost the ring, he lost a huge part of himself and his power. That's why he was so quiet for so long, working to regain some of his former power in the shadows of Mirkwood (he was the Necromancer -I'm not 100% on this but I'm pretty sure it was him- from the Hobbit). Anyways concerning your last bit, when I say Sauron was destroyed when the ring was destroyed, I didn't mean physically, and for that matter, I don't know how much of him was destroyed spiritually, but a good part of what we knew as Sauron was destroyed when the ring was destroyed. When the ring was unmade, a huge part of Sauron was unmade. They were connected. We can't really know how much of him is gone, or even if he is gone completely, but I'm pretty sure he'll never be the threat that he was before. Maybe he goes to join Morgoth, wherever he went in the dark afterlife. Afterall, Sauron was Melkor's general. If anyone else has any input on this, you're welcome. I'm pretty sure what I've stated above is all pretty much the truth. I hope this has been helpful Wilco. Later.

  • July 14, 2001, 12:15 p.m. CST


    by Fleagle

    For crying out loud! All these msgs posted on the do and donts of religion (idiot boy here thought this was a film site)and not one Bill Hicks quote amongst them...we should all hang our heads in shame.

  • July 14, 2001, 6:27 p.m. CST

    tho the white riders were Gandalf's own special touch to the Riv

    by wilko185

    (and were the boulders? I can't remember). Good call by whoever mentioned the Guiness commercial with the horses in the surf.(I don't think it was shown in the US, see ). The ad was voted the best of the year on UK TV btw. ****Thanks for showing us the light, er, I mean darkness morGoth. Let us build a temple to the Lord of Gifts, and make it 500 feet at the base, and the walls 50 feet thick, and let us dome it with silver....

  • July 14, 2001, 7:51 p.m. CST

    just spotted your reply Halloween68

    by wilko185

    God I hate this fucked up TB. Re sauron's physicality or not, I always assumed he had some actual real form in LOTR, that he "built up" over the third age as he recovered (he must have done something like this after the fall of Numenor, right?). Though like the existence of souls and angels, it can be argued either way ;). I'm open to argument on this, though I'm swayed by Gollum's "fingers" comment, and Gandalf said something like "His power is growing and taking shape again". Anyway, I suspect the films will have a real Sauron, sitting on his throne, freaking Pippin out with the palantir etc. However, it seems Tolkien wasn't too concerned to nail these "practical" issues down (eg. did Balrogs have wings? No-one thought to pose this fairly trivial question until recently, because it doesn't really matter. Balrogs are still balrogs, no matter how you picture them in your head). JRRT did a fairly abstract painting of Sauron, showing a head and arm (link anyone?), but this makes me think of the metaphorical "long arm of Sauron" stretching over Middle-Earth as much as anything. (Gimli: "His arm has grown long indeed if he can bring snow down from the north to trouble us here, 300 leagues from the Dark Tower." Gandalf: "His arm has grown long.")

  • July 15, 2001, 4:26 a.m. CST

    OK, so I've been banned... and Dolphin too...

    by Eternal

    ...while other people are making "wire coat hanger" jokes about Uma's pregnancy in the Tarantino talkback, hoping she'll have an abortion just for a film, and urging us to chant "NO FETUS CAN BEAT US"... Even Soul Suckin' Jerk is disgusted at that talkback, and with a name like his you know something's up! Oh well, I hope this new e-mail address lasts for a while...

  • July 15, 2001, 4:40 a.m. CST

    What the hell is happening?????

    by Eternal

    Wow, I've just skimmed through this talkback again, and Dolphin and I aren't the only ones who've had posts deleted. I can't say whether all the others have been banned as well, but remember those 2 posts from Perfect-Snark? They are nowhere to be seen, only his third, and a post from Emperor Caligula was also erased from existence. WTF???

  • July 15, 2001, 7:59 a.m. CST


    by Halloween68

    Sorry if the number on the end is wrong. Couldn't remember and you can't go back without waiting an age or two to load and reload. Yeah, Tolkien does mention kind of abstractly through several characters in the LOTR that Sauron grows stronger and is "reshaping" himself throughout the 3rd age, but I'm not sure if they meant in a physical sense. Who knows. As for your comments on what Golum says, I'm not sure what you're refering to. If you get this, and want to reply, please explain. I'm pretty sure Gollum never comes in contact with Sauron himself, and nothing hints, that I can remember, that Gollum ever comments on Sauron in a physical form. Maybe I'm missing something. Also, I'm pretty sure that Tolkien kinda' describes both Sauron and the Balrogs in the Silmarillion. They were both servants of Morgoth. I think he does describe the Balrog as having horns, wings, and flaming sword. Something like that. It's been a long time since I've read it. Check it out. Later.

  • July 15, 2001, 9:55 a.m. CST


    by wilko185

    it's "wilko" not "wilco" dammit! (you got the 185, that's the important bit ;-). miami answered your question (somewhere in the middle of the TB) and morGoth (at the top) says some stuff about "hroa" and "fea" on the subject of physical bodies that I'm not familiar with. Is that taken from History of ME? I've not read em all.***The moderation on this board is a bit weird. A few off-topic dolphin posts (including one of mine) have gone, as if to make the TB coherent for future generations to read through. But the one about fucking dolphin with a crucifix is still here? WTF? I thought "Blatant abuse, personal attacks, OFF-TOPIC BS, cross-posting, blatant advertising, and hate speech are all fodder for deletion". How about just getting posts to post at the bottom every time? Now where's this going to end up...?

  • July 15, 2001, 11:53 a.m. CST

    ***** breaking news: Salsa Shark becomes the latest victim *****

    by Eternal

    It has just been announced that Salsa "wire coat hanger" Shark became the latest victim of the wave of bannings currently taking place at AICN. The website, which is extremely popular among the geek community, has endured a sustained and heavy banning campaign in recent days. When asked to comment on these incidents, a spokesman (who refused to be named) said that all inquiries regarding the banning policy should be directed to the webmaster or "head geek". However, at the time of this report, all e-mails have so far been ignored. The victim: Salsa Shark, could not be reached for comment, and all evidence pertaining to his crimes has been mislaid. Foul play is suspected... We will keep you informed of all future developments.

  • July 15, 2001, 3:05 p.m. CST

    Ian McKellern

    by Celtican

    I know for a fact that Ian McKellern isn't at Niagra Falls at the moment cause I saw his yesterday driving his Jag. Sir Ian lives on the same street as me in london. His hair is very shaggy at the moment and he looks a little rough but he's definitely in London at the moment

  • July 15, 2001, 3:17 p.m. CST

    Firstly, here is my source...

    by BG

  • July 15, 2001, 3:41 p.m. CST

    Oh Joy. Is it me or did my message really got censored and delet

    by EmperorCaligula

    Whataver, I was just saying exactly what this (censored courtesy of AICN) Dolphin5583 exactly was. Well, if you want to e-mail him as many countless tons of junk you want to teach him, feel free to do. I hope he likes the LOTR trailers because he just got them as attached document. OK, now back to some more interesting discussion...

  • July 15, 2001, 3:45 p.m. CST

    MorGoth and Miami Mofo

    by Halloween68

    Hey, thanks guys for clearing that up. I'm about halfway through my most recent read of LOTR. Guess it's been too long since I've read it last. I think about 10 yrs. Far too long, I think. Anyways, thanks for the info. I do remember that passage with Golum now. I guess I always assumed that Sauron lost his physical body and couldn't get it back until he regained the ring. Maybe I was thinking he was maybe possessing somekind of husk or shadowing vehicle until he could get the ring and his body back. I always associated his physical being with his power, the power incapsuled in the ring. Cool, I guess makes sense. I guess if he's summoned enough power to summon back his armies and to control the Nazgul again, he'd have enough power to take physical form. I wonder if they'll put the scene you mention with Golum in the movie... It seems like they are choosing to do that with a lot of the flashbacks. Hope you get this. It's kind of a chore to sift through half the hogwash that's on the board started by that Dolphin character. So, in retrospect are we saying he got a physical form back during the latter years he was in Mirkwood? Sauron was in fact the Necromancer right? Right for now. Cheers.

  • July 15, 2001, 3:49 p.m. CST


    by EmperorCaligula


  • July 15, 2001, 4:48 p.m. CST

    Re BG's "spoilers"

    by wilko185

    Sam underwater is probably when he almost misses the boat when he and Frodo leave the Company. He falls in the water and Frodo's invisible hand yanks him to the the surface. Merry fighting may be in the woods near Parth Galen, not Fangorn? The Osgiliath scene I can't explain. I think it must be after the ring is destroyed, maybe the eagles drop them off near there? Also the site says Frodo is shown ill in the Houses of Healing. Does the Field of Cormallen get cut?

  • July 15, 2001, 7:57 p.m. CST

    Niagara Falls ?

    by greenleaf

    Not Niagara Falls, Ontario ?!Reminds me of Marine Land, and that TV ad with the dolphin kissing the cute little girl. Why ? I dunno. There's all this talk about dolphins all of a sudden. Have you been to Marine Land too ? Sing along, then! "In Niagara Falls, Ontario / It's nah-nah nah nah place to go / Nah na-nah nanah nah / Everyone loves Marine Land! Tout le monde aime Marine Land ! (remember, it's Canada). Nowadays they've replaced the dolphin with a seal, but it's the same old tune. Ah, memories....

  • July 15, 2001, 8 p.m. CST

    What about Gandolf ?

    by greenleaf

    Yeah, what about Gandorf ?!

  • July 15, 2001, 8:04 p.m. CST

    Hey, this Talkback is hosed up!

    by greenleaf

    What a strange website!

  • July 15, 2001, 9:21 p.m. CST


    by BG

    This TB sucks.

  • July 15, 2001, 9:24 p.m. CST


    by BG

    This TB sucks big time.

  • July 15, 2001, 9:26 p.m. CST


    by BG

    This TB sucks big time, with nobs on.

  • July 15, 2001, 11:19 p.m. CST

    Halloween... about that balrog there

    by Sir Mordred

    I don't want to quote because frankly, I'm lazy. In FOTR Tolkien describes the Balrog's immense evil shadow encompassing the great hall like two huge wings. Something like that. And I know someone in our prescioussssss band of tail-enders knows more, so I'll let him/her tell you about it. Oh, and I don't know if 'twas Gullom who said it, but Sauron is described as being a shadowy figure barely physical, but still physical enough to have nine fingers, which I believe is the one thing Gullom says. ** Halloween, I have seen some shots where it looked aweful, but the trailers I've seen Gandalf is quite how I've pctured him, bushy eyebrows and all. ** Are we still doing the debating thing? I thought I told y'all both off before, but it appears pallando was better at it than me.

  • July 16, 2001, 7:59 a.m. CST

    Wilko185, MorGoth, Miami Mofo...Last!

    by Halloween68

    Thanks again guys for your replies. I have to say that was one of the most confusing talkbacks I've ever been in. First I'm at the top, then bottom, then middle, then sideways, and so on and so on... Yeesh. Couldn't find any order to any of the comments made. Hopefully you were following my train of thought there. Anyways, thanks on your comments on Sauron's physicality. I stand corrected. Again, I guess I just always assumed Sauron had lost his physical body and needed the power of the ring to get it back. I remember vague mentionings of him being spotted here and there, but I was sort of thinking that they were talking vague shadows with frightening hints of form. I guess it stands to reason that if we can pick the details of 9 fingers and 1 eye out of the descriptions then he most be wholely physical again. Thanks for your help in reasoning that out. And Wilko, one last one for you. Not sure why you commented to me about the Balrog, I had not mentioned the Balrog until responding to you. Not that I remember anyway. Still, in response to what I think is your last, I think I remember a more detailed description of them in the Silmarillion. I remember them being sort of like these giant demonic hounds that served Melkor/Morgoth. I don't mean that they looked like hounds but that they were like pets of the dark god. I remember, not exactly sure where, Tolkien giving a physical description of them. And I don't remember how much detail he went into. But I do remember something about a flaming sword, or maybe it was a flaming whip (actually I think this is what it was, now that I'm thinking of it), horns I think, and I do get the impression of wings. But maybe I'm thinking of the same passage you quoted when thinking of the wings. Don't know. Maybe someone else remembers the exact passage in the Sil that describes them. Or maybe it's my imagination's just running wild again. Anyway the main thing in here was my curiosity with Sauron's physical form. Thanks again, guys. Talk at you later. Cheers.

  • July 16, 2001, 11:17 a.m. CST


    by Sir Mordred

    It's been awhile [NO! I hate that song- get out of my head dammit!] since I read the Sim, but I don't remember horns. However if there were, they would be at the end of Henneth Aneanad (Unnumbered Tears) or in the Fall of Gondolin, because those are two of teh threee times Balrogs are in the book. The third isn't worth mentioning because it says the servants of Melkor attacked the moon. And it's why morons think they have wings. Ok, I'm done now.

  • July 16, 2001, 12:01 p.m. CST


    by Bingo Baggins

    Too true mate. All that shite has nothing to do with LOTR. JRRT was a very religious man, but there is no organised religion in Tolkien's world - you don't see any churches in the Shire. There is no mention of Aragorn going to midnight mass. LOTR is a story set in a fantasy world. Lets just leave it like that and ignore the sad people who can't just appreciate a great work of literature without attaching their own silly significances to it.

  • July 16, 2001, 12:10 p.m. CST


    by Bingo Baggins

    Totally agree with the guy who is concerned about still shooting footage 5 months from release!!! And for the Flight to the Ford sequence - thats got to be in the first film!!!

  • July 16, 2001, 12:19 p.m. CST

    MorGoth...Okay so it wasn't the last!

    by Halloween68

    Hey, MorGoth. Thanks again for the comments. No, I'm not opening any cans with any worms in them. Not even gummy worms. I'm totally with you guys. I've said that I stand corrected on the Sauron physical body thing. I'm assuming you've read my previous 4 posts. Again, I guess I had always misinterpreted what the good professor wrote. I do now remember the scene with Gollum and I agree that it is only logical that Sauron had regained his physical form, as horrid as it might be. Thanks on the confirmation that the Necromancer was indeed Sauron. Pitty Tolkien didn't elaborate on the whole Necromancer story. He hints at it here and there with facts and historical tidbits, and then there are the comments that Gandalf let slip. I've always felt that that would've been a really cool tale to hear about on its own. Does Christopher Tolkien ever talk further about the rise of the Necromancer in any of his Lost Tale adlibs? Lastly, there, MorGoth, I don't know why you guys started addressing me about the Balrogs. I never mentioned them until Wilko185 mentioned them as part of his comment about one of my comments. Haven't a clue where it came from. I tried to suggest something as to their physical description that he seemed to be questioning. I knew there was something more about them in the Silmarillion, I went on. I wasn't sure how much. The only thing I remembered for certain was the mention of the flaming sword and whip. Wings did come to mind, but I also agreed that it might just be the one scene Wilko mentioned from the Fellowship with the "shadows like wings" thing. I then went on to say that I wasn't sure about it other than that. I do know that they were Melkor's servants. Never said he created them though. Like I did say in the beginning though, it's all in a fog, the Silmarillion, haven't read it in years. I've been basing mostly what I've had to say from what I've been reading in LOTR (ps. in the middle of my most recent re-read) and memory. So I'm sure some of my theories might have some wholes in them. Just trying to reaquaint myself with a few harmless queries. Again, I appreciate your help with clearing up of any misconceptions I might have had. Cheers. Also, where did the chat on the movie photos get started? I'm missing that one. I went in and browsed the one guys list of changes from book to movie. I think it's over on Tolkienonline. Some pretty major changes there. Were you guys' comments directed towards those. I remember seing something in there about Sam going underwater. I agree that it could only be where he falls out of the boat and Frodo pulls him in as stated. And the photo, the one I've seen, of Frodo laying in bed, can only of course be from the scene in Rivendell. What scene was the one person refering to in the Houses of the Healing? Lost me on that one. Merry and Pippen fighting in Fangorn I can only assume is from when they escape the orcs to flee into Fangorn. I can't imagine PJ trying to get them to fight Tree-ents. I don't think he's that daft. Lastly, where someone is claming that Sam and Frodo enter Osgerath (sp), dimes to doughnuts it'll be an added scene after the ring is destroyed to sort of expand on the climax. The two new characters being added there I can't imagine (someone did mention this right?) who it could be, unless it's after the allience fight their way into Mordor. Although I know such an event doesn't happen in the book, I'm sure it'll come off well on film. PJ will probably want to expand on the war after the ring is destroyed. To show the physical downfall of Mordor. For what you guys' have said about Sauron and him regaining his physical self, maybe the rumour about him being thrown from his tower on to spikes in the movie might actually be true after all. I hate to think. I was hoping it would be Sauroman that they gave the quick execution to. This also brings me back to something I said earlier, I wonder if they'll show the scene with Gollum and Sauron in real time. It appears PJ is trying to get away from all the flashback expositions. Yikes. Well. MorGoth and anyone else whose reading this string of random thoughts, talk at you later. Sorry about the length...

  • July 16, 2001, 12:47 p.m. CST

    Why did I get banned?

    by Dark Predator

    My wish was fulfilled that that Dolphin creep was banned, but one of my comments was also pulled, in which I merely complained about Dolphin being a hater like Hitler. Dolphin e-mailed me some more of his "religious" crap. Who wants his address so, like someone already did, we can send him the trailer to LOTR? Also, what happened to that one post from somebody talking about "The Quick and the Dead" and mourning the two people who died...decency and open mindness?

  • July 16, 2001, 12:49 p.m. CST

    Cool Steamboat Harry!

    by Dark Predator

    That is really funny!

  • July 16, 2001, 2:13 p.m. CST


    by BG

    ...our current chat refers to the links in my post that is currently second from the top. Wilko - Good call on the Sam underwater scene, I had forgotten about his little dip in the river, "Help me Mr Frodo, I'm drownded." Miami - I did see the picture of Frodo in Rivendell and yes it looks wonderful, but I doubt this is the scene the Tolgalen Webmaster is describing. Harry also witnessed this scene and describes it in chapter three of his adventures in Middle Earth: "Soon though, he and Ian are called onto another set in another location

  • July 16, 2001, 2:35 p.m. CST


    by BG

    ...I think it should be Eowyn mourning her cousin, Theodred (?, sp). We already know that we will see Theoden mourning and burying his son. If Eowyn is mourning Eomer and Wormtongue is there, that means Eomer dies before Gandalf and company even get there, which means Eomer wouldn't even appear in the movie. We know this is incorrect because the part has been cast and it would leave a huge hole in the story.

  • July 16, 2001, 3:02 p.m. CST

    Oh, and by the way morGoth...

    by BG

    ...I seem to remember somebody being proven wrong, but my recollection of events seems to indicate someone other than myself :-)

  • July 16, 2001, 4:31 p.m. CST

    sorry for bringing up balrog wings everyone...

    by wilko185

    I think I mentioned them to illustrate how Tolkien was sometimes quite vague about physical desciptions. These days the issue seems more controversial than the existence of God (btw, I tend to agree with the stance of The Encyclopedia of Arda, (, (on balrogs, not God, look up the balrog section). Anyway, forget I mentioned it....As it *was* Frodo, not Merry in the Houses of Healing, as I thought at first, I'm guessing the Field of Cormallen has been cut, and the eagles drop Sam and Frodo in Gondor (Osgiliath?) and Frodo recovers in Minas Tirith, to speed up the end of the story a bit. I don't think the 'high emotion' of that chapter would play too well on film anyway, and anyway there will be a lot of pomp and paegentry straight afterwrads with Aragorn's wedding, coronation etc., which should probably be emphasised along with Arwen's more prominent role. Anyway, that's my idle speculation, and we'll find out in a few short years....

  • July 17, 2001, 1:54 a.m. CST

    What's going on? And Perfect-Snark...!?!

    by The Mighty Celt

    People being banned and the posting order amiss? Oops, sounds like everyone has been having some fun! ... Perfect-Snark! I too am a firm believer in science and its ability to predict/explain/understand the Universe. However, denouncing spiritualism on the grounds that science CANNOT prove it to exist is quite naive. Ask yourself this: can science DIS-prove it? For that matter, can it disprove the existance of (a) God either? Quantum Mechanics teeters on the brink of unreality (as we know it in our everyday lives). Though it was my favourite and best subject at University, and though I "got it" and could calculate what I needed, I certainly did NOT understand many of its concepts. If our science is now wandering into such realms - touching beyond the things we experience - how do we know there is nothing spiritual or godly waiting just out of reach? I'm afraid as science advances and explains more and more, it opens up more gaps in our knowledge and poses new questions. Perhaps jumping to conclusions about spiritualism and religion is a little hasty. My own attitude is: "We'll see..." because science may discover something in my lifetime to prove/disprove such things... or failing that I will die, and find out for myself.... Isn't it amazing the things people discuss in these LotR talkbacks? Oh, and I'm sorry if I have dug up some OLD subject for seemingly no reason, or if someone has already said the same. The posting order is in chaos and I came to the party a little late.

  • July 17, 2001, 2:07 a.m. CST

    Wilko 185: Frodo & Sam in Osgiliath

    by Bingo Baggins

    Like your theories about the Field of Cormallen being cut, tend to agree, too much pageantry is the way film makers would probably see it. While we're in speculative mood, here's my theory about the Frodo & Sam in Osgiliath debate. I submit that the scene is Frodo, Sam and Gollum reaching the crossroads and that the screenplay writers have moved the crossroads 20 miles west so it coincides with the site of Osgiliath. Then Gollum can tell them what it is, and Osgiliath is introduced. In LOTR Osgiliath is introduced by Merry asking Beregond about the ruins he can see from the battlements of Minas Tirith. Although 'Minas Tirith' is one of my favourite chapters in the book, it is by nature descriptive and film makers can convey the image visually. Therefore I would further submit that apart from the scenes in which Merry & Gandalf arrive at the city and meet Denethor the only scene from that beloved chapter we can expect to see perhaps is the reinforcements arriving from Lossarnach etc. Having said that, Nick Nolte plays Beregond in the film and you would expect he's going to have more than one scene, so I could be totally wrong. It's fun speculating though.

  • July 17, 2001, 4:28 a.m. CST

    To Miami Mofo

    by Bingo Baggins

    Well, MM, now you have me thinking...tehre is no mention of the Beregond role on TORn, my source for that info was the people page which shows the film cast on which has had Nolte playing Beregond for ages. Actually the cast lists throw up intruiging posers in themselves - for example, where is Butterbur in the cast? and Maggot? Fairly major characters in the first book, nowhere to be seen on any cast list I've seen. Yet on there is a still from the film of the hobbits in what appears to be the reception of the Prancing Pony, with a inn-keeper type guy (presumably Butterbur) leaning over a counter. No mention of any omission of Beregond or Butterbur on the White Council website either. Guess we'll just have to wait and see. Thanks for your comments about my Osgiliath theory also. If you haven't seen it, a great book to look at for the topography of Middle Earth is 'Journeys Of Frodo' by Barbara Strachey, this helped me formulate my Osgiliath theory.

  • July 17, 2001, 5:59 a.m. CST

    So let me get this straight...

    by The Mighty Celt

    There have been HOW many posters banned? 4? Sheesh! That's no showdown mister -- it's a massacre! So, Perfect-Snark is gone too? And Eternal -- you got it as well? What did you say? And Miami Mofo (I think it was you) -- this is nothing to do with the consitution of your nation (if you are US of course)... this is a privately-owned and administered web-site, which individuals are responsible for maintaining. Considering some of the content I have read in many talk-backs here I'd say they usually show considerable restraint.

  • July 18, 2001, 12:15 a.m. CST

    Miami Mofo

    by The Mighty Celt

    First point: you wanted to sing a song: "Banned in the USA"... that is what I was referring to. Second: I know the picture you mean. It is a high-concentration stellar-birth region from the Eagle Nebula. And yes, there is something godly, awesome and inspirational about it... but it neither proves nor disproves the existance of a god or divine being, in a mathematical-type of way. But that is the wonder of the world: we see the very same thing but can derive very different meanings from it. Anyway, back to LotR. This Niagra shooting business, Gandalf foam horses for the flooding at the ford sounds interesting. I'm glad PJ is keeping that in. I wonder if this is one of the additional effects that WETA could not squeeze into their heavy work-load. Maybe that is why it is being filmed in the US instead of New Zealand..?

  • July 18, 2001, 12:31 a.m. CST

    Out of interest in stellar birth...

    by The Mighty Celt

    Try this link. I'm pretty sure this is one of the most awesome sights to date. Check out some of the others at:

  • July 18, 2001, 12:48 a.m. CST

    Bingo, whoever might see this, Re maps and stuff

    by wilko185

    Bingo, I like your Osgiliath theory, seems plausible. It's taking some geographical liberties, but Osgiliath should have been shown previously (in flashback) in Boromir's account of the Nazgul crossing the river (could be fairly dramatic, with Faramir and Boromir doing a "Horatius at the bridge"), so it's a place the audience will recognize (albeit from 2 movies ago). We never really "saw" Osgiliath in the books, so it could be interesting. Do we know if any sets were constructed of the riuned city? On the subject of geography, I hope there are maps shown in the movie (with or without a progressing line showing the route of the fellowship, a la Casablanca). If not it will be hard for the non-reading audience to grasp where we are at a given point, and the story could seem like a fairly arbitrary series of set-pieces until we reach the quest's end in movie 3 (cf. Sam being out of his reckonin in Hollin, "I thought this ere Redhorn gate was Mt Doom until Gimli said his piece")***Re Nick Nolte, I remember him being mentioned a while back, but all I can find on the web now are old rumours. Surely if a star llike him had gone to NZ to do a huge film there would be some confirmation? (I hope there are no "surprise" cameos in LOTR a la Sean Connery in Robin Hood. Is there anything more likely to pull you out of the film and into reality? Tho Connery would make a good Cirdan....)

  • July 18, 2001, 1:07 a.m. CST

    Bingo, whoever might see this, Re maps and stuff

    by wilko185

    Bingo, your Osgiliath theory seems plausible. It's taking some geographical liberties, but Osgiliath should have been shown previously (in flashback) in Boromir's account of the Nazgul crossing the river (could be fairly dramatic, with Faramir and Boromir doing a "Horatius at the bridge"), so it's a place the audience will recognize (albeit from 2 movies ago). We never really "saw" Osgiliath in the books, so it could be interesting. Do we know if any sets were constructed of the riuned city? On the subject of geography, I hope there are maps shown in the movie (with or without a progressing line showing the route of the fellowship, a la Casablanca). If not it will be hard for the non-reading audience to grasp where we are at a given point, and the story could seem like a fairly arbitrary series of set-pieces until we reach the quest's end in movie 3 (cf. Sam being out of his reckonin in Hollin, "I thought this ere Redhorn gate was Mt Doom until Gimli said his piece")***Re Nick Nolte, I remember him being mentioned, but all I can find on the web now are old rumours. Surely if a star llike him had gone to NZ to do a huge film there would be some confirmation? (I hope there are no "surprise" cameos in LOTR a la Sean Connery in Robin Hood. Is there anything more likely to pull you out of the film and into reality? Tho Connery would make a good Cirdan....)

  • July 18, 2001, 1:17 a.m. CST

    Bingo, whoever might see this, Re maps and stuff

    by wilko185

    Bingo, your Osgiliath theory seems plausible. It's taking some geographical liberties, but Osgiliath should have been shown previously (in flashback) in Boromir's account of the Nazgul crossing the river (could be fairly dramatic, with Faramir and Boromir doing a "Horatius at the bridge"), so it's a place the audience will recognize (albeit from 2 movies ago). We never really "saw" Osgiliath in the books, so it could be interesting. Do we know if any sets were constructed of the riuned city? On the subject of geography, I hope there are maps shown in the movie (with or without a progressing line showing the route of the fellowship, a la Casablanca). If not it will be hard for the non-reading audience to grasp where we are at a given point, and the story could seem like a fairly arbitrary series of set-pieces until we reach the quest's end in movie 3 (cf. Sam being out of his reckonin in Hollin, "I thought this ere Redhorn gate was Mt Doom until Gimli said his piece")***Re Nick Nolte, I remember him being mentioned, but all I can find on the web now are old rumours. Surely if a star llike him had gone to NZ to do a huge film there would be some confirmation? (I hope there are no "surprise" cameos in LOTR a la Sean Connery in Robin Hood. Is there anything more likely to pull you out of the film and into reality? Tho Connery would make a good Cirdan....)

  • July 18, 2001, 2:37 p.m. CST

    First of all...

    by BG

    ...I believe it was reported over at TORN that it was Digital Domain that was doing the filming at Niagara Falls, they're one of the companies WETA has farmed work out to. Secondly, a report over at TORN, supposedly from somebody within WETA/3foot6, has confirmed that Sauron does NOT die on a spike, but that Saruman DOES! Thirdly, I also thought it would make sense to have Frodo, Sam and Gollum visit Osgiliath on their way to Mount Doom, but in the spy report he says they used two large body doubles. Fourthly, there is something that has always confused me about LOTR. At the beginning Gandalf tells Frodo that Sauron believed that the ring had been destroyed by the Elves. Yet at the end of the book the destruction of the ring, for all intents and purposes destroys Sauron. At the council of Elrond the fact that the destruction of the ring will defeat Sauron is never mentioned and the main theme is that they merely wish to prevent Sauron getting hold of it. But by the end of the book it is almost taken for granted by Gandalf, Aragorn, etc, that the destruction of the ring will defeat Sauron. Also neither Barad-dur nor the Black Gate were made with the power of the ring and yet they both fell down when the ring was destroyed. Am I missing something here?

  • July 18, 2001, 9:16 p.m. CST

    BG, calm down

    by Sir Mordred

    After all, 'tis only a mythology. Why would Heracles kill his family? Why would hera make Heracles a God? Why would Perseus attempt to overthrow Mount Olympus? Why would Noah not let his negihbors buy passage on the ark? and lastly, Why the Hell did the Trojans drag a gigantic horse with at least 60 Greecian warriors? By the way, I wonder if Noah really was a drunk.

  • July 19, 2001, 7:06 a.m. CST


    by Pallando Blue

    ...Though I betcha someone's pointed that out already. Busy as all heckfire lately, so ironically the doofus558 hijack was well-timed for yours truly as far as keeping me outta here. Can't play yet or even do moree than skim the subject lines it's so nutz around here, but I'll try to sort through the rubble this weekend. (Man this TB really DID get all effed up!) (And remember kids, the "eff" is for "fire") But I couldn't not drop by on this most excellent less-than-half-a-year pre-anniversary! FIVE MORE MONTHS! FIVE MORE MONTHS!

  • July 22, 2001, 9:59 a.m. CST

    Dream sequence

    by JD1866

    Well, hey there elanor. Where ya been? I don't recall reading anything about Boromir's dream. I can't imagine why it be cut. PJ appears to be including all those little details so dear to our hearts, so cross your fingers. I should like to hear another voice recite the poem if the dream sequence is filmed as a flash back. I don't know if Tolkien (father or son) has ever revealed who sent the dream, but my guess would be Manwe or Ulmo. Anyone have a definitive answer on that?

  • July 22, 2001, 4:24 p.m. CST

    Dream Sequence

    by Bingo Baggins

    Elanor, regarding your question about the Boromir/Faramir dream, the 'Tolkienonline' website White Council Forum pages speculate that it is omitted from the film, the source being Peter Jackson's original script draft (although this was only for two films not three) but it only gets a credibility rating of 2/5 on their scale so fingers crossed it will be in the film after all. As to who sent it, I love the suggestions put forward by TB'ers, all I can say is it must have been the same guy who 'meant Bilbo to find the ring'. Pleased to see on the TORn site that your namesake is in the film too! Went to see Jurassic Park 3 yesterday, (had a hope that the Fellowship trailer might be on with it as a friend had reported it was on when he saw JP3, disappointingly it wasn't!) Anyway, while we're on the subject, has anyone seen JP3 and what did they think? Loved the birdcage bit with the Pterydoctyls, that was class, but that Spineosaur or whatever it was called that kept popping up all over the place was a bit daft - was it following them around? Loved the bit where they had to get the mobile from out of it's crap though.

  • July 22, 2001, 6:14 p.m. CST


    by BG

    ...just to add to what Bingo said, here is an extract from Xoanon's (TORN) review of the 2-movie scripts, referring to the council of Elrond, "One thing I did not like about this scene was the omission of Boromir

  • July 22, 2001, 10:18 p.m. CST


    by fladnaG

    I have a quick question. I heard that in the movies Aragorn will recieve the broken sword at the council of Elrond and that at the Prancing Pony and on Weathertop he would have a different sword. I was wondering if this was true and what kind of an impact it will have. One of the big scenes for me has been when he shows the hobbits the shards of Narsil at the Prancing Pony and it seems odd for him not too have it. Any thoughts on this. Also for BG I have found that usually SW fans are very passionate but quick to anger. I love SW but I do not find it even close to being as "deep" as LOTR. There's only so many angles in which to discuss Anakins fall to the darkside, which I see as the "deepest" part of the story. However, with LOTR theres so many more indepth angles to look at when discussing Frodo and his temptions by the ring. I also don't see why it must always be SW vs. everything else. You can be a fan of more than one thing at once. But I digress. If anyone knows anything about the whole Narsil/Anduril thing or any speculations I would love to hear them.

  • July 22, 2001, 10:19 p.m. CST


    by fladnaG

    I have a quick question. I heard that in the movies Aragorn will recieve the broken sword at the council of Elrond and that at the Prancing Pony and on Weathertop he would have a different sword. I was wondering if this was true and what kind of an impact it will have. One of the big scenes for me has been when he shows the hobbits the shards of Narsil at the Prancing Pony and it seems odd for him not too have it. Any thoughts on this. Also for BG I have found that usually SW fans are very passionate but quick to anger. I love SW but I do not find it even close to being as "deep" as LOTR. There's only so many angles in which to discuss Anakins fall to the darkside, which I see as the "deepest" part of the story. However, with LOTR theres so many more indepth angles to look at when discussing Frodo and his temptions by the ring. I also don't see why it must always be SW vs. everything else. You can be a fan of more than one thing at once. But I digress. If anyone knows anything about the whole Narsil/Anduril thing or any speculations I would love to hear them.

  • July 22, 2001, 10:22 p.m. CST

    The sword that was broken

    by fladnaG

    I remember hearing that Aragorn will not carry Narsil but instead receive it at the council of Elrond? If this is so then he won't have it at the Prancing Pony to show to the hobbits nor will he have it at Weathertop. Any speculations on this?

  • July 23, 2001, 11:18 a.m. CST

    reply to fladNag (up in the middle somewhere)

    by wilko185

    This is what tolkienonline says about Aragorn carrying Anduril: "[Rumour]-Strider is armed with a common sword until he reaches Rivendell, where the shards of Narsil are kept by Elrond until they are reforged into Strider

  • July 23, 2001, 11:22 a.m. CST

    damn.posting in the middle again. Can someone fix this again?

    by wilko185

  • July 23, 2001, 1:45 p.m. CST

    Check out...

    by BG

    ...the interesting comic con pics over at TORN. Two pics caught my eye, first is a pic of a model of a Dwarven cemetery in Moria. The fellowship must encounter this in Moria, but I don't remember it being mentioned by anyone who viewed the Cannes Moria footage. It doesn't look like the area surrounding Balin's tomb. Second is a pic of the Hobbiton Mill. Considering the size of it, the look of it and the number of chimneys, I would guess this is the Mill from the Scouring of the Shire. Having said that, it is reasonably obvious that all the figures and models on show are from the first movie. So following my thread of (possibly flawed) logic this would mean it is seen through Galadriel's mirror. I now invite you to speculate regarding my speculations.

  • July 23, 2001, 9:07 p.m. CST

    My guess is geography and generation

    by Sir Mordred

    I realize that everyone likes star wars, but the star wars fans from france don't post here, and niether do the the star wars fans that are over say- 30. but every LOTR fan posts here, And by the way- I'm a bad mouthed bastard too. and generalizations are stupid, bitch.

  • July 23, 2001, 9:22 p.m. CST


    by Sir Mordred

    It's hosed- run for your lives! And if no one gets what tv show I refer to in my topic- then go watch it. But if you don't know it, then you can't watch it. Oh well, fuck all.

  • July 23, 2001, 9:32 p.m. CST

    that was supposed to be ABANDON ALL HOPE

    by Sir Mordred

    maybe i'll proofread. Nice comments wilko I'd like to see him carry narsil too, but we've seen a Viggo-esqu character that has been confired as him at weathertop with a sword- a complaete one. We could be wrong.

  • July 24, 2001, 8:06 a.m. CST


    by Chocky

    Can anyone put me in cryofreeze until December? I can't stand this waiting. So disappointed they didn't show the Cannes footage at Comiccon (and I wasn't even there, I just wanted to hear geek reviews). If this movie bombs, it will break my heart like no man ever has. -- Chocky

  • July 24, 2001, 1:49 p.m. CST

    Hoi Hi tailenders !....

    by Skyway Moaters

    ... sorry for remaining incommunicado for so long, just in case any of you missed me, heh. I know I've missed all of you but this ol' nexter's life has been a living hell since May and I've not had the spirit to chime in more than once or twice. Appy polly loggies. 'Been keeping up with the news and reading all your posts though. Elanor has however piqued my interest and drawn me out of my self imposed exile with her discussion of the "The sword that was broken". It got me thinking about the Weather Top footage. In the book Aragorn is carrying the shards of Narsil at this point in the story, and no mention is made of him carrying any other blade. Yet in the trailer footage of the events at Amon Sul, and in still photography of Aragorn in scenes prior to the council of Elrond, he is clearly shown wielding a whole and unbroken sword. This leads to me to think, and hope to Eru (Trust PJ!) that I'm totally wrong, that the legend and the re-forging has possibly been left out of the screenplay altogether(?) GASP! Surely NOT! Any thoughts wise Tolkienists? Namarie Mellyn an' Trubba Not (Trust PJ!) SM{;-0

  • July 24, 2001, 1:53 p.m. CST

    Well I guess ingold's ploy didn't work...

    by Skyway Moaters

    ... Or elese Ive screwed up the %^$#@* posting order again. My Comment on Elanor's post on "seek the sword that was broken" ended up near the top. No great loss I suppose...

  • July 24, 2001, 2:33 p.m. CST

    Found the answer to my own bloody question!...

    by Skyway Moaters

    ... Check out: It would appear that old Ancalagon has REALLy done his homework...

  • July 24, 2001, 3:16 p.m. CST

    Welcome back, Moaters!

    by JD1866

    My guess would be that Aragorn receives the sword in Rivendell. Personally, I always thought it a bit odd that he carries around such a valuable (yet rather worthless-in-a-pinch) heirloom. However, maybe in the movie he will still carry the shards of Narsil AND a back-up sword. Back to the map issue, Cirdan at Herr-Der-Ringe has posted some new posters due out and one of them is a beautiful map of ME tracking Frodo's journey. Neat. BG - no starting trouble with SW fans again ;o) LOTR attracts enough jerkwad losers as it is!

  • July 24, 2001, 9:36 p.m. CST

    Dman- what was I gonna say

    by Sir Mordred

    oh welcome back moaters. when i finished your post I coulda sworn i worte it. the SM threw me. Oh well. I got nothing else to say. Bye

  • July 25, 2001, 6:53 a.m. CST

    Thanks for the Hidey Ho morG...

    by Skyway Moaters

    ... and yes I DID see that someone has appropriated my original handle by leaving outh the spaeth between Tim, and Benzedrine, the cad. AWK!I think I've contracted Meriodoc's sthpeechth impediment! Miami! ROTFL! "can I thee her wun awound a widdle bit"... Har har har etc...

  • July 25, 2001, 9:57 p.m. CST

    Fucking Hell Miami

    by Sir Mordred

    THat was disgusting... I had to say that so you people wouldn't think I was weird. Funny as Hell.

  • July 26, 2001, 9:25 p.m. CST

    Where is everyone?

    by Sir Mordred

    Did y'all abandon this TB and not tell me?

  • July 27, 2001, 8:10 p.m. CST

    Big Brother is watching...

    by JD1866

    even this late in the game. And here I thought that no one paid any attention to us but us. *** I wore my LotR tee-shirt to the office today. Man, what an overwhelming response from the most unexpected people! Folks I haven't really talked to for 8 years (beyond the usual hi, how are ya?) were cornering me and firing off questions. One woman, who is going to be spending a week at the beach, decided to take along FotR to refresh her memory. Another decided to starting reading them to her kids. Plenty of enthusiasm all around. Cool! ***Miami - The History of the War of the Rings is part of the HoME series. I believe they are Vol. 6-9.