MORIARTY Reviews Two Upcoming Sequel Scripts!! MIB2 and TREK 10 Details Here!!
Hey, everyone. "Moriarty" here with some Rumblings From The Lab.
Sequels are odd things.
When we see a film we love that introduces us to characters we love, it’s a natural response to want something else with those characters, some other story that gives us the same rush.
Yet we all know that more often than not, sequels suck.
For every GODFATHER II or BACK TO THE FUTURE trilogy, there’s a dozen ROCKY V’s and LETHAL WEAPON 4’s. So often, it’s creative alchemy that makes a film wonderful in the first place, and trying to reproduce it is next to impossible.
So when two big sequels showed up in my reading stack recently, I approached both with that mix of trepidation and hope that has become so much a part of the process with any follow-up.
MEN IN BLACK 2
The original MEN IN BLACK is one of those films that had a great high concept and an energetic cast and some memorable moments, but it never really gelled as a film for me. It felt like a 90 minute trailer for a better film. I remember walking out of the film with a strange dissatisfaction gnawing at me, wishing they’d pushed things just a little further.
In a case like that, I find myself actually hoping that the filmmakers will take the lessons learned on the first film and make a bigger, better sequel. Based on the evidence at hand in the draft I read of MEN IN BLACK 2 by Robert Gordon (the writer of the delightful GALAXY QUEST), that’s exactly what they’re trying to do here.
The film opens simply, with a group of tourists on a boat tour of New York. They see the World Trade Center towers and hear various statistics about the amount of wire used inside or the amount of glass. One little boy, bored, catches a firefly for a moment, then lets it go. We follow the firefly over to a flower that seems to be growing right out of the center of the East River, only to have the flower eat the firefly. The flower disappears underwater, and when we head underwater ourselves, we find two divers swimming along, using flashlights to search the river bottom.
The divers find the flower sticking out of the silt and begin to talk to it. One of the divers tries reasoning with the flower, which he oddly keeps addressing as "Jeff," while the other diver tries to bully the flower into talking to them. When the second diver makes the mistake of yanking on the stalk of the flower, we get our first look at "Jeff" in all his glory, a giant wormlike creature that heads for the surface of the river with the diver hanging on for dear life. There’s a struggle and the diver gets thrown onto the deck of the tour ship.
What ensues as the first diver pursues Jeff from the river to a drain pipe to a subway tunnel is a wild, crazed action/comedy sequence that reintroduces us to the one and only Jay, Will Smith’s character from the first time. There’s more punch packed into this opening than there was in the whole first film, in my opinion. At one point, Jay is racing through a subway train, mere feet ahead of Jeff, who is actually eating the train as he chases Jay. In some ways, this script seems to have taken its cues from the fairly imaginative animated spinoff show that’s been running since the first film came out.
When Jay hooks back up with his new partner Tee (Patrick Warburton), he’s in a reflective mood, feeling unappreciated. He’s got the same growing malaise we saw in Kay in the first film, and we learn that he’s been going through partners at a ridiculous rate. He neuralyzes Tee, then heads back to MIB headquarters, pausing only when someone (a shadowy figure we don’t see) snaps his photo and runs off. The film’s major storyline gets underway in Central Park when a small spaceship crashes into the ground and a neural root creature comes slithering out. It finds a newspaper on the ground and sorts through it, finally finding a Victoria’s Secret ad of a beautiful model in red lingerie. The creature divides into two creatures, then four, then over and over until there are thousands of them. They arrange into an undulating pile of creatures in a human shape, resolving into an exact duplicate of the model, right down to the red lingerie flapping in the breeze. This is SERLEENA (Famke Janssen), and when a huge sleazy biker dude tries to rape her, she eats him and takes his clothing, heading into the city on whatever mission she’s come to Earth for.
Her first step is to hook up with Scrad/Charlie, a two-headed alien being played by JACKASS star Johnny Knoxville. Turns out they were left on Earth by Serleena for a purpose, and in the time they’ve been there, they have gone native, falling in love with pop culture. She’s repulsed by his high definition TV and his stereo and his Internet and his Playstation 2 and especially by his ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY. He admits to Serleena that he completed his mission and that he has located something known only as "the light." He wants to wait until after FRIENDS to go get it, but Serleena forces him out the door.
When an attack is made on a local pizza place, Rita Vasquez (Rosario Dawson) narrowly escapes with her life. She sees Serleena rip open Mitch, the owner of the pizza place, revealing that he is a glowing starfish-like alien. Serleena interrogates him about "The Light Of Zartha." In these scenes, we’re convinced that Serleena is a real threat. She’s not played for laughs, leaving that for Scrad and Charlie. Instead, she’s menacing, vile, and freaky, and I can’t wait to see The Dutch Treat dig into the role. She’s my favorite bad girl on film right now, and this is yet another major role in a major franchise. Bond, X-MEN, MEN IN BLACK... let’s hear it for Famke.
Then it’s back to MIB Headquarters, where we catch up with Elle (Linda Fiorentino) and Zed (Rip Torn). There’s some clever celebrity cameos written in here as Zed scolds some aliens for being too visible, and we’re also reintroduced to one of my favorite characters from the first film, Frank the Pug. He ends up serving as Jay’s partner when he goes to check up on the events at the Pizzeria, and what they learn there starts the rest of the film into motion.
Yes, they end up going to bring Kay back into the MIB. No, it’s not just that easy to un-neuralyze someone. Yes, Rita is Jay’s love interest in the film. No, she’s not just an excuse for a little glib dialogue. In fact, the relationship that develops between her and Jay is one of the script’s key pleasures. Time and time again, this confounds expectation, upping the stakes not only for the characters, but for Earth. Serleena is a genuine threat, and that makes the film’s suspense seem more urgent. There’s also a lot of material that is genuinely funny, building on what we learned in the first time in a way that is surprisingly satisfying. Wait till you see where Kay’s been working, and who he’s been working with. Wait till you see some of the new gadgets they’ve created at MIB headquarters for Jay and Kay to use. Wait till you see how Jeebs (Tony Shaloub) makes his return. Wait till you see how much screen time the worm guys from the first film have this time around, and just how much fun they are in action. Wait till you see the Pink Nebula strip club or Locker 24 at Grand Central Station or how Leonard Nimoy figures into things or how the film’s beginning ties in cleanly to the big finish or what’s hidden in Deep Impound, levels 70 through 75.
Oh, wait... you have to keep your eyes closed on those levels. Otherwise you might go insane.
There were two alternate endings included in the script I read. One of them maintains the status quo, while the bolder of the two gives one of the franchise characters a graceful exit. I hope they go for the second ending. If this script proves anything, it’s that this franchise is powered by imagination, and as long as writers are able to play with the characters and situations as ably as they have here, it’s not about the movie stars. That’s a franchise worth revisiting, indeed.
STAR TREK: NEMESIS
Jonathan Frakes certainly has his work cut out for him.
Yes, it’s true. Number One is back in the director’s chair again with this, the tenth film in the seemingly endless STAR TREK franchise.
And before you decide whether or not you should read anything I have to say about the latest even-numbered entry in the series, know this: I’m notorious around these parts as the guy who doesn’t like STAR TREK. Not the original series, not the NEXT GENERATION, not DS9, and not VOYAGER. Overall, I think there are bright spots here and there over the course of what I’ve seen, and I don’t "hate" the shows. As far as the film series goes, I still think WRATH OF KHAN is the Gold Standard by which the films should be judged. THE VOYAGE HOME, a fan favorite, bugs me because of how jokey and deeply silly it is. I’d say my second favorite of the films is FIRST CONTACT because, like KHAN, it’s an adventure film first and foremost, and it doesn’t depend on a casual viewer’s total immersion in the arcana of the series in order to be enjoyed.
Having said all of that, I’m encouraged by the direction STAR TREK: NEMESIS seems to be heading. The screenplay by John Logan, from a story by Logan, Rick Berman, and Brent Spiner, is compellingly built, and if this turns out to be the last NEXT GENERATION installment in the series, as has been rumored, it’s a great place to leave these characters. There is a sense of closure for them, even if the film allows for an open ending.
The film opens with a credit sequence that sets up the film’s central mystery. We see molecules being manipulated, genes being spliced. We see a meeting of the Romulan senate, a three year old human boy standing before them, alone and scared. We see the surface of the Reman homeworld, sister planet to Romulus, cloaked entirely in shadow, where the boy is led down into the firey mines after one last look up at the stars overhead. The images are stark and simple, and when they pay off later in the script, I’d even describe them as haunting.
From there, we cut to Earth. Alaska, specifically, where the wedding reception of Will Riker and Deanna Troi is underway. Picard is serving as best man, and delivering the toast, wishing them "full sails and a clear horizon." All the regular characters are in attendance: Beverly Crusher, Geordi La Forge and his girlfriend Dr. Leah Brahms (from the episodes "Galaxy’s Child" and "Booby Trap," as noted in the script), Commander Worf, hungover from the bachelor party the night before. Data performs Irving Berlin’s "Blue Skies" with the band, an obvious toss to Spiner’s abilities as a song-and-dance man. In some ways, this scene is what bugs me about STAR TREK. Everyone makes their big entrance, and it always feels like they’re throwing the fans a bone. It feels to me like when Fonzie would make his entrance in HAPPY DAYS or when Ted Danson would walk on in CHEERS and the audience would applaud. The actors would take their moment, soak it up, and any sense of reality just evaporated. In an adventure movie, I don’t really need five pages where Beverly Crusher asks Worf "Do Klingons swing?" On the other hand, for hardcore fans, I suppose these introductory scenes are like family reunions, and that balance between servicing the casual viewer and the devoted fan is part of what makes certain films in the series work and others fail.
Back on the Reman homeworld, we learn just how much time has passed when we meet Shinzon, the film’s major villain. He and his Viceroy look up at Romulus in the sky above, a glowing point of light, and talk about how their plan is about to come to pass. It’s standard bad guy stuff, and it’s always the least interesting part of any film like this. Logan handles it quickly, though, and with economy, and that’s what makes the script snap.
Back onboard the Enterprise, they’re en route to Betazed for the actual wedding ceremony, which is to be held in the nude, much to Worf’s horror. Picard and Data have one of their patented conversations about a facet of human behavior. It’s fairly comfortable stuff until they pick up an electromagnetic signature in a distant system, an unusual one. Positronic. This seems particularly odd since such a signature could only come from an android like Data, and since there are only supposed to be two androids with such a signature (Data and Lore), it proves impossible for the Enterprise to pass without checking it out.
Picard, Data, and Worf take a shuttle to the surface, mainly so Picard can get a chance to drive a giant 24th Century military jeep. There are a number of moments in this film in which Picard seems to be taking joy in life’s simple things, like a man realizing he’s near the end of something, and it’s this characterization more than any other that makes the script work, I think. Patrick Stewart has always been, hands down, my favorite performer in any of the STAR TREK material I’ve seen, and he deserves this sort of role.
Instead of solving the mystery of the positronic signals, they find another mystery, even more confounding. The signals are coming from a perfect replica of Data that has been disassembled and scattered across the desert floor. As they pick the pieces up, they are attacked by a group of alien nomads, and a major action set piece unfolds. There’s a lot of comedy mixed in with the action, and it’ll be interesting to see if Frakes can blend the two with the deft touch required.
It’s especially tricky because it leads right into the real kick-off of the plot involving Shinzon. He and his Reman soldiers break in on the Romulan Senate and announce their plans to engage the Federation in a full-blown military campaign to take back the Neutral Zone. One of the reasons it seems like a perfect fit having John Logan write this script is because he brings the same energy to this material that he did to the political maneuverings in GLADIATOR.
The two seemingly unrelated storylines start to come together quickly as Shinzon manipulates the situation from Romulus and Data attempts to unravel the mystery behind his new "brother," B-9 (or Benign, as he’s called). Data’s disappointed because Benign seems to be no smarter than a child. There’s an odd relationship that plays out between these two beings that seem identical on the surface but are nothing alike inside. For Data, this is the defining moment in his quest to define his identity.
It shouldn’t come as a surprise that it’s the Enterprise that gets pressed into service when the Federation learns of the situation on Romulus. It’s certainly no coincidence. As soon as the Enterprise is in orbit above Romulus, it is engaged by Shinzon’s Romulan Warbird, the Scimitar, a ship that is at least twice the size of the Enterprise, armed with weaponry that the Federation is totally unaware of. Upon their first meeting, Deanna senses a deep rage from Shinzon that seems to be entirely focused on Picard. Scared for a reason he can’t define, Picard ends up talking to none other than Captain Janeway in a cameo role (she’s got two big scenes).
It’s page 52 when the film’s biggest bombshell is dropped, a plot twist that had Robogeek gasping in annoyance when I told it to him last week. I won’t give it away here, but I will remind you that Paramount has already confirmed that the film has something to do with cloning. The nature of Shinzon and his "brother" mirrors the storyline between Data and his, and it pays off in a number of unexpected ways. In both cases, one of the pair has a weakness that makes him somehow "lesser" than his twin, and in both cases, hard choices have to be made about what looking into this mirror image says about one’s self. Both of these twins were created for possibly dangerous purposes, and both are eventually brought to understand something about their better natures.
The rest of the film is a balls-out action film, unrelenting in pace, and should please audiences immensely as long as Paramount doesn’t pull their standard low-ball horseshit on the FX budget. Spring for ILM. You won’t have many more chances to please the fans, and if this delivers, you’ll be pleasing a much larger audience than normal. This could well turn into the largest crossover hit for STAR TREK since WRATH OF KHAN. There’s a definite echo in the ending of this film as one of the major players sacrifices him or herself in a very moving way, and the results of that play out over the last ten pages with real honesty. As long as they don’t undermine the move a la SEARCH FOR SPOCK, it should stand as one of the emotional high points for all involved.
If all sequels were approached with the sense of invention that these two seem to have been, then perhaps "sequel" wouldn’t be such a dirty word. Let’s just hope that the journey from script to screen for these projects is a successful one, and that they prove to be the enormous entertainments they look like at this stage.
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July 9, 2001, 1:07 a.m. CST
When I heard that the Romulens would be the lead villians I had such high hopes that Spock might be back. A shame, really. It's so depressing to see how even as Star Trek stands in ruins, Paramount is determined to let old Rick Berman shut out the old guard. I'd pay fifty bucks to see another movie with Shatner and Takei. Hell, Make Scotty and Spock even a small part of this flick (makes more sense than using Janeway, and that's the truth!)and I'll bet that even a small clip of those two during the preview would get the theatre cheering. Star Trek's got a rich history, there's no reason not to keep telling stories using the old cats. I say, make Spock a key player in the political story, and have Scotty save the day Han Solo style in his 10 year old Shuttlecraft, phasers blazing. I'd pay fifty bucks to see that. Still, it sounds like all the pieces are in place to make this a really good film; Adventure, political intrigue, comedy...Wait! I just remembered! That was the formula for Star Trek 5 too! Oh Shit!
July 9, 2001, 1:08 a.m. CST
First off, I have to agree that First Contact and Khan are the high points in the Trek series with Undiscovered Country coming in third. (I also found the Voyage Home to be a bit too comical to be among the top three) What makes them great is that they both featured the dynamic between the principles at its pinnacle, a full-developed credible villain, and, perhaps most importantly, some terrifically thrilling action pieces. Though I must say that it is this last bit that worries me the most about Frakes directing. Even in First Contact, I found his space battles to be fairly flat. The briar patch battle in Insurrection was extremely pretty, but also pretty dull. I hope that someone makes him go back and what Nicolas Myers' amazing work in Khan and Country so he can see what a REAL Trek space conflict should feel like.
July 9, 2001, 1:16 a.m. CST
too much star trek...aren't they all a bit old...eg data?
July 9, 2001, 1:45 a.m. CST
So is this Romulan a clone of Picard then or something? Anyone actually know?
July 9, 2001, 1:52 a.m. CST
You know, I was uncertain where they were going to go with the franchise after Insurrection. They were obviously very lost. The announcement that the Romulans were going to be the big enemy in this movie didn't leave me feeling too pretty. Yeah, the Romulans are mean bad-asses and haven't been touched on in forever. But they just didn't seem like that menacing or intriguing of beings to base the next movie on. Reading this synopsis of the script, however, makes me feel much more at ease. It sounds like they are going in the right direction. I look forward to hearing more about this. I just hope they incorporate some of the ramifications from Insurrection in the story. I'd love to see the Federation preparing for an all-out war with the Romulans while they are tearing themselves apart from within. If indeed this is the last film in the series (or with the TNG cast, at least), go out with a bang. Cut loose on the entire universe of Star Trek. With Paramount going full-force ahead with Enterprise and dealing with the past, it could be a long time or never that we see what lies ahead in the future. Leave us with something juicy to ponder. Perhaps, if it's worthwhile, even set us up for another movie down the road. This could be the one that turns the franchise back around. Or ends it. We'll have to see.
July 9, 2001, 2:07 a.m. CST
by The Founder
I sorry, but Men In Black didn't do anything for me, and I found it a little boring and a tad childish. Trek 10 has to be better then the last three with the next gen cast. Now don't get me wrong I liked them, but they were nothing more then tv episodes, and I always feel that if a series goes to the big screen they should have stories to live up to the big screen, it's kind of like going from a buick to a bmw. Both sequels sound interesting, and although I hate to admit it and considering my feelings of the first one MIB2 really sounds promising and I actually might enjoy it. Trek is my favorite, and it has me a little worried, and Franks should pass on the Directing so he can focus more on his role, and Paramount should get a good director to helm up the project. I'm not saying Franks is bad, but he's better suited for tv directing then a big budget film. I hope the FX are great, and I'd prefer Digial Domain over ILM or Sony Image Works may be even better. ILM is good, but they work was lacking in TMR this summer, and it was a little rusty in something else too, but I can't put my finger on it. Paramount would be wise to stay away from ILM, and it's not cause they are bad its just that they plate is full for 02 films as well so their best wont be working on Trek. Well if these are the shooting scripts they both could be promising, but my main concern is Paramount forking over the money to make Trek look great, and not go with those Fx houses that work on TV shows.
July 9, 2001, 2:20 a.m. CST
by The Founder
The Federation is supposed to consist of over a hundred different worlds, then how is it possiable that single races empires like the Klingons, or the Romulans can pose a threat to a federation that has so many different races combined? The Borg were the only empire the federation delt with that were worthy since they had absorbed so many different races into their empire. This is one thing that always bothered me about Trek history, because they never mentioned or at least that I'm aware of that The Klingons or the ROMULANS races were so large that they riviled the number of citizens in the federation or had the resources to match a community with over a 150 worlds in it. I'm just curious?
July 9, 2001, 2:31 a.m. CST
by Toby O Notoby
Who the fuck is Lore?
July 9, 2001, 2:46 a.m. CST
hey toby-Lore was the first android made by Data's creator(Soong). He made him with emotions and this somehow led to his arrogance and becoming evil- Soong stopped Lore and took him apart and then started from scratch and made Data. That's why Data didn't have emotions. Lore and Data look identical-they were made as younger versions of Soong-since the guy didn't have any kids. This was all explained in Season 1 episode called "DATALORE". and then Lore was back in Season 4 "Brothers" and finally in "Descent part 1 and 2"-can't remember what year.In that last show Lore was the leader of a Borg faction that was separate from the collective and was a little insane-he was experimenting on humans and Borg to make them more fully artificial-sort of a Borg Hitler. At the the end Data shot him and disassembled him for good-and took the emotion chip from him-which he later put in his head in "Generations"-Hope that helps man?
July 9, 2001, 3:34 a.m. CST
by Blok Narpin
There are BAD sequels. There are GOOD sequels. To me sequel has NEVER been a dirty word. I get angry when I see a bad movie and happy when I see a good one. Yes, Batman and Robin sucked. Superman III and IV were crap. Nightmare on Elm STreet 2 and 6 were awefull. BUT for every one of those films there is a Scream Trilogy. A Back to the Future Trilogy. A Gremlins 2: The New Batch. A Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. An ALIENS. Yeah, there are bad sequels, but there are just as many GOOD sequels. There are many more bad ORIGINALS that never LEAD to sequels. Sequels have a bad rep. I say lay off them. By the way, MIB 2 and Star Trek X sound really good based on these reviews.
July 9, 2001, 3:47 a.m. CST
by Toby O Notoby
(Jesus, now I sound like an episode of JAG.) Anyway, I think this demonstrates the biggest problem with Star Trek: trying to make shows that don't alienate casual fans while still pleasing the hard-core afficiandos (sp?). I think this is the problem with the new Enterprise design (see the tb under coaxial). They picked one that looked cool, but is too far advaced for people who know a lot about Trek to accept.
July 9, 2001, 4:40 a.m. CST
SPOCK! Well, it makes sense. The rumour a few months ago, which many dismissed, was that Spock would be the Villan in this film. Given that Vulcans and Romulans are pretty much the same species, and that Spock has spent much time on Romulous; And given that the twist apparently causes people to GASP, which implies that we know this character, well who else could it be but the clone of SPOCK? Oh my god, I feel like such a geek. I shouldn't be able to pull all that together, I'm cooler than this in real life, honest I am!
July 9, 2001, 5:03 a.m. CST
Hmmm odd that Leonard Nimoy would have a role in both of these movies. Still, I was kind of hoping for Walter Koenig. He is the only one of TOS cast that I think is up to playing a villian. Maybe George Takei. Who knows? James Doohan is to ill and Nichelle Nichols wasn't good in her role in the first place. I think DeForest Kelley could of pulled of a villian in his day but he's dead and wasn't up to acting in the last two Trek movies he was in. Still Nimoy is ok and will not stop me from buying the DVD or anything. However if its William Shatner, I'm going to stay in a galaxy far far away from this movie.
July 9, 2001, 5:07 a.m. CST
I read this script. It's totally unfunny. Very dry read. Was hard as hell to finish. This movie will suck.
July 9, 2001, 5:09 a.m. CST
Oh my God, MIB 2 sounds AWESOME! The first one was so good I bought it on DVD and I watch it every chance I get, so it's nice to know this will be even better! I'm already visualizing those super cool visual effects already! Can't wait to see 'em! Kudos to the writers!
July 9, 2001, 5:21 a.m. CST
three cheers for some awesome news...the outline for both movies sounds great..not that there's time enough for both of them to acieve some dregree of suckiness...(it's inevitable that good projects at some point from conception to actual film aquire a few flaws..)...let's hope that frakes' direction is up to par with such an inspired story line...(who directed the last one...insurection....that was an ungodly piece of cinema....like a trumped up tv. episode...sans charm... ...............the MIB 2 outline sound good as well.....look forward to seeing this come to life as well........back in a while.....ex out...
July 9, 2001, 5:25 a.m. CST
by RightWing Dude
Hopefully ILM will do the special effects &, while I like Jerry Goldsmith's music, someone other than him (Horner perhaps)will conduct the score & we will have a real kick-ass movie going. By the way, when is this film going to be released? Surely they are not going to go up against STAR WARS EPISODE II, TERMINATOR 3, & MATRIX 2 are they?
July 9, 2001, 5:34 a.m. CST
I ama bit disappointed that Frakes is getting yet another shot. He's a capable enough director...but I think they should have brought Nicholas Meyer back or one of the other big dogs. We'll see...
July 9, 2001, 5:35 a.m. CST
is that they often like the shitty installments. Crap, there were good reviews for Star Trek Generations! Never mind that it failed to live up to the universe of Star Trek: The Next Generation in any way! Mori likes Star Trek 2, which is incouraging, but he also liked First Contact which was better than Generations but still fell short of being to Next Gen what ST2(or 3 or 4 or 6) was to the original series. So Picard dies at the end of this film(Maybe Mori's being misleading, but he sure as hell hints that its the bald one who's days are numbered)? Well, I can live with that if he goes out in a good way, but I don't think it should be permanent. If this film really does breath new life into Trek movies, and finally give Next Gen a decent theatrical turn, then you can bet your mommy/daddy button Stewart will return and Next Gen will have two or three more installments. I don't agree with Moirarty putting down the Search for Spock, but based on his AI review I shouldn't really be surprised or concerned. His tastes are just different from mine. Now I AM surprised that Kate Mulgrew's Captain Janeway does a cameo. Not only do I find it hard to believe that she could ever be lured back to her Starfleet shackle, but I'm sure I'd heard that Jeri Ryan 7 of 9 was going to cameo in the movie(and it makes more sense since she's bangin Braga the Bitch). Either this draft is old, or some sudden changes have occurred. But come on, Jonathan Frakes is directing AGAIN? Shit. I really wanted them to go for Nicholas Meyer or someone who didn't direct something as painfully phony and cheap-looking as Star Trek Insurrection. I'd say Paramount is being stingy-frugal again already, which doesn't bode well for the special FX either.
July 9, 2001, 6:27 a.m. CST
Dark Horizons has a story today(Monday) that Sean Connery is in talks to play the bad guy in Nemesis. Pretty cool huh?
July 9, 2001, 6:38 a.m. CST
She got fat anyway...
July 9, 2001, 6:46 a.m. CST
by Uncle Jay
....it still sounds flakey. The comedy elements need to be minimal and definately not in a major action scene, that's why the "Lethal Weapon" movies are dumb and goofy despite their great action scenes. The story sounds great, with a lot of twists, but this cloning crap has got to stop. "Star Wars" has developed a major story around cloning, why is "Star Trek" doing it now, isn't that too obvious. Frakes did an amazing job with "First Contact", but remember "Insurrection"...problably one of the worst sci/fi movies I've ever seen. If this is the last of the "Next Generation" crew, then they need to go a little more all-out. I think they shoud've brought in Q.
July 9, 2001, 6:58 a.m. CST
by Mike Hunt
Is Janeway's scene(s) crucial to the story or was she just brought it because Logan (the writer) is a big VOYAGER fan? I'm betting that this scene will be edited out of the film as Quark's was in the last film! The scene was originally written for Jeri Ryan but she's on BOSTON PUBLIC now & will not have time to film it(in response to an earlier post). Sean Connery as the villain????? How old is he now? 70? 75? 10 years ago he would have been good but not now (by the way, Shatner wanted him to play Sybok in STAR TREK V)........Data is going to be the one meeting the Grim Reaper in this movie (figuratively speaking, seeing as how androids do not have souls) not Picard. It's common knowledge that Spiner wanted for Data to be killed in INSURRECTION. Now, he & his good friend are writing this film-who else could it be?
July 9, 2001, 7 a.m. CST
FIRST, if you were a Star Trek Fan as your Header implies, you would follow "updates" and know that Jeri Ryan had to bow out of participation due to her commitment on Boston Public. So this is obviously a pretty recent draft. SECONDLY, Reviews by non- Star Trek fans are preferred (in my opinion) since we can take their review and pass our own judgement. When a 'Fan' does a review its often Snooty and Mean- spirited! FINALLY, the part of the villian was written with Alan Rickman in mind, who would in fact be great. And although Sean Connery is fantastic, money spent on his salary could be saved, or spent elsewhere and a fine less expensive actor (like Rickman) would do great.
July 9, 2001, 7:09 a.m. CST
thanks for the reviews but i would like to hear more plot lines.
July 9, 2001, 7:34 a.m. CST
...Yar, or her daughter (Sela?), or both.
July 9, 2001, 7:47 a.m. CST
"Back to the Future Part II" (or was it simply "II?") Was the perfect example of a loud, hit-you-over-the-head but ultimately pointless sequel whose sole purpose was to make money, nothing else. First of all, for the first part, in the future: who the hell goes to the future to change the future? Unless of course their looking for an excuse to bilk the public out of another $100. You can't blame Michael J. Fox for wanting to stretch as an actor by doing multiple roles, but let's face it: that's something which should be reserved for the very talented like the late Peter Sellers, or even Eddie Murphy. The middle part of "Back II" with the alternate present was blatently stolen from "It's a Wonderful Life" where George Baily sees the world that would exist if he had never been born. And is anything more insulting in a sequel than having supposed inside jokes from the first film ("Back on the good ol' twenty-fifth [?] floor") that are designed to make the audience feel like they're actually a part of something just because they saw the first one (maybe one per film, like when Indy reaches for his gun and it's missing in "Temple of Doom," fine. But beyond that...). On top of that, it alienates audiences who may not have seen the first one. About which: in the third "act" of "Back II," they completely tainted the original's segment in the 1950's, which held the key to much of the original's innocent appeal. Was "Back to the Future Part II" (still can't remember if it was just "II," dammit) overall generally entertaining? Yeah, I'll give it that. But nothing else. LESS than nothing. BTW "Lethal Weapon 4" was MILES better than "Back to the Future Part II" and at least didn't taint the name its previous installments.
July 9, 2001, 8:09 a.m. CST
Hey, CASUAL ST fan here. I remember reading the jacket to a book that Shatner wrote 5-6 years ago where Kirk was brought back to life by the Romulans using (Borg?) high tech. Do you think that good'ol rug top could be the suprise? Remember, you may be the BEST BOY.....but I have the BEST GRIP!
July 9, 2001, 8:10 a.m. CST
Mori does his best to give the Star Trek franchise the benefit of the doubt, but things are in a sorry state after the abomination known as "Insurrection", which could have easily been titled "Save the Space Hippie Commune". One consistently annoying thing about the franchise has been the way it likes to drop these not-so-subtle, overbearing anvils of political preaching, especially since the Federation now proves little more a metaphor for the limp-wristed and always incompetent UN. (Perhaps I may be one of the few left who enjoyed watching Kirk break nearly every Fed directive, just to be a hardass and save the day...but I digress.) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Now all this aside, in terms of storytelling, I can totally agree with Mori regarding simple frivilous exposition of reintroducing characters...however I do have a weakness for swing dance numbers, so perhaps I'll forgive them this once. If Frakes can achieve the same high watermark he did in "First Contact" then let me sign on to that voyage. Take us, out. One quarter impulse power...Mr.Frakes.
July 9, 2001, 8:54 a.m. CST
I know you're out of ideas but don't be so obvious, guys.
July 9, 2001, 9 a.m. CST
by SilentBob X
Frakes couldn't direct traffic if he took a 10 week course. How in the hell does he get to direct every Trek movie since Generations? Oh, I know why. Cause no other director would touch Trek with a 10 foot pole. At least, a director with TALENT, which Frakes does not have. And whiile I'm on the subject, why is Paramount trying to milk more cash from this dead cow called Star Trek? Anyone who's seen First Contact and Indigestion knows that they've officially run out of ideas. Let this franchise die the semi-dignified death it kind of deserves...... Snootch to the Nootch.
July 9, 2001, 9:17 a.m. CST
Die Hard on the Enterprise!
July 9, 2001, 10:32 a.m. CST
The only good 'Star Trek' film made since 1991 was 'Galaxy Quest'. And that's all i have to say about that.
July 9, 2001, 10:32 a.m. CST
MIB2, huh? Based on Moriarty's desciption, it looks like I have TWO must see films for 2002 (First is "Spider-Man"). Oh, and I saw BTTF2 before I saw BTTF1. Sue me.
July 9, 2001, 10:33 a.m. CST
I was hoping for Nick Meyer to be involved too but... The script treatment sounds pretty good and I hope, reallllly Hope that this is good. I think the surprise is Spock. Kirk? Who knows. Give Beverly something to do though. Glad Janeway is in it but why is Picard going to Janeway?
July 9, 2001, 10:39 a.m. CST
by Uncle Jay
I always thought that Rutger Hauer would make a great villan in either a "Star Wars" or "Star Trek" film. If Frakes or Berman have any sense, they should get an awesome, cool, cult actor like Hauer to play a villan. Then "Star Trek X" will have some hope! Plus, I think Picard's death is DUE!
July 9, 2001, 11:37 a.m. CST
First of all, if it wasn't obvious enough, in my above posting I wrote "$100" when I meant to write "$100 million." I guess it was a Fraudean slip on my part, since I think "Back II" only deserved to make $100. As for the posting by ZeroCorpse (cool user ID, BTW) saying that only an idiot would watch a film series out of order, although I see the point I think that's a bit extreme. MY original point was that all movies, even sequels, should as much as possible be self-contained and sink- or swim on their own merits. Perfect example: the James Bond movies. They can pretty much be watched in any order. "Diamonds are Forever" opens with Bond roughing people up in search of Blofeld. Now if we did see "On Her Majesty's Secret Service," we know that Bond is seeking revenge for the murder of his wife. Yet there's no mention of that in "Diamonds," so anyone who hadn't seen the last film can still get as much out of it (and if anyone's going to post that Bond's wife was mentioned much later in "For Your Eyes Only," don't bother because I already know that).
July 9, 2001, 11:45 a.m. CST
First off, Spiner only wants out of Star Trek because he feels hes getting too old to play Data. All the TNG cast members signed for 3 movies. Generations, First Contact and Insurrection. None of them were required to do Nemesis, and so far only Stewart and Spiner signed. Anyone who says you need the old original Trek cast to tell a story, are just still in denial about Star Trek moving on. Voyager in the movie makes more sense then Scotty, or Chekov. There all like 60 or 70 years old, they've had there day. As for Nemoy, please. He was a good sidekick, but Logan wanted a villian who could challenge Picard. That's why they need Connery. He's got the name to draw non-Trek fans, and the acting talent and depth to be a believable foe to our favourite captain. Casting him as Picard's nemesis would be a showdown of two great actors, and well worth the 5 bucks for admission. As for the cloning, the Picard cloning is a little too obvious. They say it looks like a good script, so I don't think Logan would put that in. It's too easy. Frakes should direct, he's more involved, and he's good with action sequences. That's all for now.
July 9, 2001, 12:49 p.m. CST
I don't think sequels need to be self-contained. The Greatest Sequel of All Time (according to popular opinion) is The Godfather, Part II. It may work on its own, but you're going to miss a LOT, and the final scene is probably going to make very little sense to those who haven't seen the first one. (Why is there a James Caan cameo??) A franchise movie can stand alone...one where the characters are just shifted over from one story to another, like James Bond or Batman...but some movies are telling a story that needs more than two hours to be told in entirety. And those are often the best sequels anyways, 'cause the other ones are, in the words of the immortal William Goldman, Whore's Movies. So to dismiss a sequel because it depends too much on the original for narrative cohesion, like B2TF II, is pretty preposterous.
July 9, 2001, 12:51 p.m. CST
Lethal Weapon 4 was ok, really, but it failed to recapture the magic of the first one ... after all, Riggs was NUTS in the first one, that's what made it so great, and now he's just another tough cop. Anyways back to subjects at hand ... I agree with Moriarty about the first MIB movie, it really left me hungry for more ("Is this entire movie just going to be about the stupid bug?"). The next installment sounds awesome. With the endless material they could make MIB sequels until the end of time but they would probably get stupid after a while, like the Elm Street and Godzilla movies did. Okay, now on to Star Trek. I think the shocking clone will be the big giant head himself, Shatner er Kirk since the other main characters are theoretically still alive. Maybe an evil Kirk ... hmmm. Shoot, let's just get evil clones for the whole TOS crew and have a big intergenerational blowout. At any rate, it's a comfort to know this next installment can't possibly be as bad as the last one.
July 9, 2001, 12:55 p.m. CST
Men in Black is, above all other things, a commercial for the sequel. If it were a comic book launching a series, it would be numbered #0. You have about 50 minutes of, admittedly, fun background, and then another 40 of underwhelming chase and action. It's almost like the whole Bug thing was just an afterthought, an action subplot thrown in to spice up the story of a brash young cop's induction into the Alien Police. Now that we all know Will, we all know Tommy, and we all know the premise of the MiB, we can get down to a wacky fun and engrossing story about comical and disgusting aliens and their diabolical scheme to threaten the Earth and its citizens in some way, shape, or form.
July 9, 2001, 1:27 p.m. CST
by Sith Witch
and hope Stallone gets the funding for part 6 before it is too late. But no more than that please! A nice six-part serial about the world's greatest boxer...yeah!
July 9, 2001, 1:56 p.m. CST
by Uncle Jay
A true italian loves "Rocky", an even truer italian loves "Raging Bull". One movie, one story, no Mr. T.
July 9, 2001, 2:13 p.m. CST
I echo the reviewer's comments on Paramount being cheapskates on Star Trek's FX budgets. Even movies like Gladiator and TombRaider seem to have more FX than Star Trek movies. The last Star Trek movie with any significant amount of FX was STII, which coincidentally, is everbody's favorite. Every movie since then has had horrible FX. I feel especially cheated on First Contact, where the Borg Battle sequence was WAYYYYY too short. Why does Paramount insist on being such cheapskates when it comes to a SCIENCE FICTION movie like Star Trek that DEPENDS on FX?????
July 9, 2001, 2:18 p.m. CST
Although I don't hold much hope for either of the scripts reviewed, I do think that in some very rare instances, a sequel can be every bit as good, or, in some cases, even better than the original film that spawned them. A few that immediately come to mind include: Superman II, The Road Warrior, Aliens, Godfather 2, and, of course, Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. Any others?
July 9, 2001, 3:05 p.m. CST
Brent Spiner has already said that he was getting to old play Data, so I think it's Data that get killed in the end.
July 9, 2001, 3:15 p.m. CST
LW4 wasn't the best but it was still good. As for MIB2, why exactly would an alien who loves pop culture be repulsed by it as well? Does one head like it and the other not? Not exacty clear from what Moriarty wrote. Can anyone help me on that? I have admitted many a time, I love sequels. Yes many suck, but many non-sequel films suck too. And while ST:Insurrection was the worst Trek film ever, even worse than V, I felt, I still have hope for the new one. And yeah, Famke rocks. (AlthoughI get her confused with Gina Gershon sometimes and I'm not sure why...)
July 9, 2001, 3:26 p.m. CST
by film snob
A major character will die in the new Star Trek film. I felt it was Data. Then I found this blurb in SFX MAG. Patrick Stewart says he has devised the death of Picard, since he has "strong feelings" that this next pic should be the captain's swan song. "I have written an ending for Picard in which we finally kill him off and producers are looking over it right now," said the actor. It LOOKS LIKE IT MIGHT BE PICARD!!
July 9, 2001, 5:02 p.m. CST
by Bad Guy
Some good sequels:Godfather II, Empire Strikes Back, Superman II, Aliens, Star Trek II, III, IV, VI and First Contact, Toy Story 2, The Road Warrior, Die Hard 2, Indiana Jones and The Temple of Doom (and Last Crusade) and Terminator 2. Some bad sequels: Godfather 3, Superman 3 & 4, Star Trek: Insurrection, Lethal Weapon 2-4, Nightmare on Elm St. 2, and 5-7? Halloween 2-H20, Rambo 2 & 3, Jaws 2-4 and Hannibal. And you can throw in the entire Friday the 13th series, including the original, just for good measure. Having said all that, personally, I'm looking forward to both of these sequels. I enjoyed the first MIB very much and thought it was a great combination of sci-fi and comedy. And as you can tell from my list I've enjoyed many of the Star Trek flicks and I'm not even a Trekkie or Trekker or whatever the fuck they're calling themselves now.
July 9, 2001, 5:31 p.m. CST
EVIL DEAD 2! Who's with me?
July 9, 2001, 5:39 p.m. CST
using the same quality ratio (and not counting franchises that bleed to death, so no Jaxon IX)has got to be Spy Who Shagged Me. Never been so disappointed after being so enthusiastic in my LIFE!
July 9, 2001, 5:47 p.m. CST
john logan(a lone 'gladiator')is wolverine wolverine is a x-man x man is writing star trek 'X' x marks the spot.... wolverines!!!(the 'red dawn' has began)
July 9, 2001, 6:18 p.m. CST
Makes sense. I mean the consumation was done years before, and many times.
July 9, 2001, 7:17 p.m. CST
Anyone who says Insurrection was worse than Trek 5 is obviously insane. Don't you all remember the campfire scene? THE CAMPFIRE SCENE people! I remember it well. Its the first time I ever wanted to scratch my eyes out.
July 9, 2001, 7:19 p.m. CST
I think Moriarty's reviews are excellent, keep it up. All you bitches can shut it.
July 9, 2001, 7:21 p.m. CST
by user id indeed!
(crickets).... ehmm.... no? Well, c'mon, what are we comparing it to? The fourth one with the "Soul Pizza", the fifth one with the "Super Freddy", or the sixth one, with God-knows-what? Don't get me started on the second one! Ye GADS, that was crap. Besides, with a name like "Dream Warriors"... it's gotta be good! KINCAID SPOKE FOR A GENERATION UNDER SEIGE FOR DREAMING, MAN! KRUEGER IS EVERY TIGHT-ASS CORPORATION TRYING TO LEASH US 'N NOOSE US WITH THEIR GODDAMNED NECKTIES!` Alright, you guys think about this one. Get back to me. This has been a Moment with User ID Indeed! Puppet death... best death scene ever? Damn near close, anyway.
July 9, 2001, 7:49 p.m. CST
I read the what must have been the first or second draft in LA at a friend's house a month ago. No Janeway in that script. Moriarty's right, there is a certain crackle to the dialogue that was lack in 9. I'm a bigger fan than he is of the series. I gotta say the first thing that jumped out was that the light parts were handled alot better than the toojokey IMHO 9 Script. The Villian is well drawn. I gotta say that this is very meaty stuff for Stewart. I would use the eps where he was a pow of a torturing cardassiann as a reference point to where his emotional state gets to in the film. Lots of continnnuity porn for TNG fans. Part of the conclusion ties in with a major TNG event from the past. The last 20 twenty pages, while the action scenes weren't really laid out well, really deal with sacrafice and what makes us human. Now for the big stuff. (SPOILERS ahead. This looks like it is indeed the last TNG film. And if it is, it's ultimately a more fufilling emotional ender tban Generations provided for Kirk. Data is over. The door is kinda open for Spinner to return, but as I said this is probably it for TNG cast. Picard indeed looks in a mirror and is supposed to be the weaker of two.
July 9, 2001, 9:04 p.m. CST
Greetings... Just to drop a quick note: I am the "persnickety, anal retentive text book geeky stereotypical Trek fanboy" from "Trekkies" the below poster mentioned (makes me wonder what HE does for a living...). I can vouch for the fact that the Trek X synopsis has nothing to do with the fan written "Nemesis" screenplay I'd written. They share title and Romulan involvement only. Regards, Gabriel C. Koerner http://www.geocities.com/gckoerner
July 9, 2001, 9:17 p.m. CST
And now I'm too tired to say any thing! MIB2 looks Good. ST10 I will have to think about for a bit...
July 9, 2001, 9:56 p.m. CST
Why do people bag on this one? Of course its nowhere in the vicinity Part One, but Freddy was still the serious, blood-thirsty dream demon as opposed to the murderous stand-up comic he became starting with Part Three. Part Two is actually one of the better horror #2's ever if you think about it (who thought Scream 2 was good <or 3 for that matter?> What kind of baby turds were you smoking?) The image of the school bus teetering on the cliff became an indelible image (utilized both on the Simpsons and South Park, I believe,) and Freddy by the pool: "Help yourself, fucker!" with flames erupting behind him, is the most evil and striking image of Freddy as a serious villain outside of pushing up through the bedroom wall in Pt. 1. Either way, like I said, it's not the Godfather II of horror films, but for gosh sakes, it's better than a helluva lot of other sequels. In fact, I can honestly say only Evil Dead or maybe has it beat in regards to "Part 2s." In my opinion. Of course, I like Sleepaway Camp 2.
July 9, 2001, 10 p.m. CST
May I just say that the line: "Peter, this is the WORST TIME YOU COULD HAVE CALLED!!!" is perhaps the most laugh-my-ass-off hilarious thing I've heard in a movie in years (until later in "Trekkies" when the guy at the Trek BBQ says "This year we even had a girl come.")
July 9, 2001, 11:04 p.m. CST
by Buzz Maverik
...up to the part where Danny Glover strips. I wouldn't have written that. And I didn't write the part where Gibson shoots the valve on the Human Tank's napalm thrower because that scene was supposed to be in the middle of the story...
July 10, 2001, 12:04 a.m. CST
Of course, Exorcist II: The Heretic! It is Martin Scorcese's favorite film (I'm not kidding, look it up.) As far as Star Trek is concerned, why do they bother doing new Trek and Star Wars movies? The two are pretty much the same thing at this point, let's just combine them and save everyone a few hours. How bout Star WarsTrek Episode 2/X: The Phantom Nemesis?
July 10, 2001, 5:17 a.m. CST
Uh, at the very least, there was a schoolbus teetering on the edge of the cliff in Superman I (cliff, bridge, whatever), which is a FAR more famous image, and preceeds Freddy's Revenge by at least 6 years. So if Simpsons and/or South Park are utilizing parody in scenes like that, I'm sure Superman is their inspiration...although perhaps there's another similar but more famous image in a movie like Earthquake, which I haven't seen. The point is: it ain't Nightmare 2 that's being homaged!
July 10, 2001, 6:42 a.m. CST
Apparently, a few posters seem to be missing one of my points about why I found parts of "Back to the Future Part II" so insulting. The references to the first film were NOT key elements essential to understanding the story or the characters. Rather, they were cutesy inside jokes which were designed to make us, the poor audience, feel like our shitty little lives are just a bit more exciting. Please. This is home much credit Hollywood was giving any of us for having a brain by the end of the 1980's. To me, the movie might epitomize the exact moment when so-called "event movies" starting becoming more "event" than "movie." And since "Back II" has been brought up, I forget one HUGE flaw in its plot: The character of Biff (played by Thomas F. Wilson) is an idiot and when they get to the future he's senile on top of that. Yet somehow he's suddenly got the branis and cunning to grab the sports statistics book, get into the time machine (after even being able to identify it), navigate this very difficult and complex instrument, and put that whole plan about his younger self into action?!??!? As the character himself would say: "Hello? McFly?" BTW since no one else brought up "Back to the Future Part III," it was a little bit better, less insulting and more entertaining. Still, both movies were originally shot as one, then split up when Robert Zemeckis claimed that there was SO much good stuff there it couldn't be contained by a single film. Whatever you say, Bob. Now, I'm glad someone brought up "The Road Warrior," which I hadn't thought of. This is probably because as most people know it's the sequel to "Mad Mad" and released in most of the rest of the world as "Mad Max 2." Yet it did very well among American audiences who had never seen the original "Mad Max" and maybe never even heard of it. Now I can't swear that the US version of "The Road Warrior" wasn't edited to make it more accessable to those who hadn't seen the first. But it ties into the underlying point that TO A DEGREE sequels should be self-contained. And while we're at it, let's stop throwing around a fancy word like "Trilogy" for any three films in a series. In order to qualify as a "trilogy," three films or books have to complete a story arc, which I dont' think the "Back to the Future" series (and that's what it is, a SERIES) does that. I remember back in the early '80's we were calling the first three "Friday the 13th" movies (including the one in 3D) a "trilogy." Well, we were young. And Bad Guy, "Lethel Weapon 2" was not only better than the original but is one of the best aciton movies of the past twenty years.
July 10, 2001, 7:24 a.m. CST
How dare you! You question my fandom because I don't keep up with the net "updates?" I got news for you, pal, half the stuff I see on the net is usually hogwash, so forgive me if I don't bother reading everything! No, I don't go to TrekToday every morning, or even every week to find out every drop of info on the next film. I read this story because, though I disagree with him much of the time, I like to know what Moriarty thinks. I disagree vemently with your vindictive little idea of what a Star Trek fan should be. It's people like you that give us a bad name!
July 10, 2001, 7:45 a.m. CST
I disagree. I think that part II was a worthy successor to part I. And hey, it's a comedy first and formost, and Biff's character was fine in the sequel. And the trilogy completes a story ark. Probably better than most trilogies. Even better than Star Wars in my opinion. When part III finishes, you know there is nothing else for the writers to do. It would be an insult to the story to try to continue. Whereas Star Wars you could continue the story, and it would not insult the story line, because it was left open. Whereas the Back to the Future trilogy, there is no open ending, even though they do say that the future has yet to be written. So there.
July 10, 2001, 8:02 a.m. CST
To me, at least. Suddenly Marty reacts to being called a "chicken" as if it's the most obvious plot point in the world. This is a crucial tidbit in several parts of 2 and 3 and yet was non-existent for part 1. And Crispin Glover isn't in it. Back to the Future was written (and really works best as) as a SINGLE movie. Amblin Entertainment's involvement (aka Spielberg) turned it into a "franchise" without any real story ideas for 2 or 3 planned out. It was just a given that it would make enough money to warrant a sequel because of who was involved. Daring at the time... but of course, these days, Tomb Raider had sequels planned before production was even finished. *Oh, and the bus scenes in Superman and Earthquake (responding to the response to my earlier post) were on BRIDGES, not cliffs. I trust that Matt Stone & Trey Parker (as well as the writers on the Simpsons) were quite well-versed on their horror sequels when they wrote what they wrote in regards to Elm St. 2. I mean, the guys made Moses into the MCP from Tron, for Bob's sake.
July 10, 2001, 8:11 a.m. CST
I love when TalkBacks veer off of the main topic and into something much more interesting like general sequels. MIB2? How badly does Columbia want merchandising revenue anyway? I mean they lose 30 million on Will's salary just to start...then again, he'll trade $5 mill for three slots on the soundtrack anyway. And the best parts of all 3 Lethal Weapon sequels combined cannot hold a melty birthday candle to the sweet-ass classic original. Any movie that can make me take Gary Busey seriously is either a miracle or The Buddy Holly Story.
July 10, 2001, 8:57 a.m. CST
Someone pointed out that they don't know where I got that old Biff in "Back to the Future Part II" was "senile." Okay, senility is a medical condition, and maybe he didn't have it. But any doctor will tell you that at that age your perception and judgment are weaker than they would've been when you were younger. A much bigger flaw lies in the fact that he was able to get into the time machine and get it to go back to the 1950's. Someone once pointed out to me that the time machine may already have been set for the first time it went to that period in the first film. That actually makes some sense, since he wound up at exactly the same point. Still, would you get into what you thought was a time machine and start poking around? I'm nervous about riding in elevators! Wouldn't any rational person worry about ending up among dinosaurs and not being able to get back? Again, the time machine is a very complex instrument, and Biff was able to get in and use it effortlessly. For that matter, given Doc Brown's constant raving about how potentially dangerous time travel is, why would they leave the time machine were anyone can get in and use it? Weren't there any safety devices which would prevent anyone but Doc, Marty and maybe Jennifer from starting it? I don't even recall: didn't it start with a key in the first film? It was a converted DeLoran, after all. I wouldn't have left the keys in my piece-of-shit Chevette, and having it stolen would only have meant my insurance rates would have gone up, not that the entire timeline might have potentially been destroyed! Now, can I say anything good about the movie aside from that it was generally entertaining (which I already did)? Yes: there WAS one great line. When Doc Brown announces that he has to destroy the time machine, he says he's going to concentrate on "the other great mystery of the universe: WOMEN." How true. As for the poster who thought it was so great that the story "ended" in the third part... well, it WAS a cartoon series a few years later, if you count that. Now on the subject of weak plot twists: I agree about that in "Lethal Weapon 2" about how the bad guys killed Riggs's wife. That was the epitomy of what Stephen King once complained about how movie plots always have to loop back to themselves. That one in "Lethal Weapon 2" admittedly did fall under the catagory of "Puh-LEEZ." Other, than that, I stand by my opinion of the film overall, including that it was better than the first (God's honest truth is I always thought "Running Scared" was better than the first "Lethal Weapon") As for the villians being the white South African government, how timely was that when the film was made? It's awareness created by things like the movie which may have helped to eventually bring down Aparthied. These weren't some cartoonish villians like the Russians ended up being from the 1960's through the 1980's; Aparthied was a very real issue which effected all of us, and it was handled well, I think in the movie. I'm not saying the villians or even the movie didn't have their cartoonish elements (it is an action film, after all), but my underlying point stands.
July 10, 2001, 8:57 a.m. CST
I'm all over seeing MIB2, can't wait!! As for Trek 10, please someone make them stop.!! TNG is so LAME, at night when its real quiet, you can hear ole Gene spinning in his grave.
July 10, 2001, 10:14 a.m. CST
by Blok Narpin
Nightmare on ELm Street 2 SUCKED. ALL the Nightmare on ELm STreet films were pretty good EXCEPT 2 and 6. 2 trashed everyhting the series was about. Freddy stalks his victims in THIER DREAMS. 2 had him chasing kids around a pool. AWEFULL movie. Nightmares 1, 3, and 7 (the three CRAVEN had a hand in) were the best. In fact if you throw the others out and JUST watch those three they make a pretty tight little trilogy. 4 is fun in an action movie sort of way (probobly because it was directed by action movie director Renny Harlin), and 5 is nice because it brings back the heroine of 4 (Alice was the ONLY character to beat Freddy twice and LIVE. Nancy died in 3) AND 5 restores the series to it's dark roots that the 4th film abandoned. 6 was ALMOST as bad as 2 but not quite. Here is my GOOD Sequel List: Gremlins 2, Back to the Future II and III, Godfather II, Bride of Frankenstein, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, Shaft 2000, All the Star Trek movies except 9, Psycho II, Scream 2, Scream 3, The Spy who Shagged Me, Evil Dead 2, Army of Darkness, U.S. Marshals, Wayne's World 2, Die Hard with A Vengence, Rocky III, Beneath the Planet of the Apes, Escape From the Planet of the Apes, Halloween II, Halloween H20, Batman Returns, Batman Forever, Superman II, Aliens, Alien Resurection , Adams Family Values BAD BAD SEQUELS: Superman III, Superman IV, Rocky II, Rocky IV, Nightmare on Elm Street 2 and 6, ANY Friday he 13th movie, Halloween III, 4,5, and 6, Star Trek Insurrection, Mummy Returns, Jaws 3-D, and Jaws 4: The Revenge, ALIEN 3, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, Godfather III, Psycho III, Karate Kid II, III, and IV, Shaft in Africa, and the WORST MOVIE OF ALL TIME: BATMAN AND ROBIN! The point is there are good sequels and there are BAD sequels. It's all in the script.
July 10, 2001, 10:17 a.m. CST
If you read the books that follow the story after Generations (there are four now I believe-all written by Shatner with help from Judith and Garth...someone. I think it's Reeves-Stevens)they continue the Kirk story for what seems like another couple thousand years (I am exagerating, and they are all great books). But in one of the books Kirk is cloned. BY THE ROMULANS! Or atleast he is somehow brought back to life starting at the moleculor level. Therefor they must have his DNA mapped clearly. So think about that one for a minute.
July 10, 2001, 10:30 a.m. CST
by All-ighty Ollar
MiB2 sound VERY good and STX is equally good, if not better. From reading the details of the MiB script, it makes me want to watch the cartoon a lot more than i used to. Also, I'm a ST fan, but not a 'trekkie' or 'trekker' (however you say it.) I think these movies will do good at the box office.
July 10, 2001, 10:38 a.m. CST
While STII:TWOK was a moving and exciting film, and perhaps the most popular of the Trek films, it's effects were close to ST V's in the budget department. After the expensive fiasco of ST - TMP, Paramount made sure to do the sequel cheaply through it's television division. Many of the Enterprise scenes, particularly the drydock ones are lifted directly from ST- TMP. additionally, the Regulus space station is a modified model from TMP turned upside down, and the "genesis cave" matte painting is incredibly fake looking.
July 10, 2001, 11:10 a.m. CST
The opening sequence sounds good for the Trek flick, but come on, Episode 2 is about cloning, and I would rather waste a few quid on that. Especially as, unlike Trek, there might be a heavy duty five way lightsabre fest at the end. Samuel L Jackson kicking ass with a glow in the dark sword, or the crew of the Enterprise trying to be diplomatic. Hmmm, tough.
July 10, 2001, 11:12 a.m. CST
Uh, regardless of what anybody thinks of the quality of the Back To The Future sequels (for the record, I think two is ok and three is quite good), I don't think there can be any denying that it IS a trilogy, and was always meant to be a trilogy. The first movie ends with To Be Continued, and was followed by about 8 years of 'when's the next movie coming out' questions. While the first movie does work, self-contained, all three movies tell one continuous story.*** I'll donate another two cents and say that Lethal Weapon I is the best in the series, but II is pretty damn good (annoying plot twist aside). III is easily the weakest (uh, put out an APB on Jack Travis, businessman? Are Martin, Roger, and Lorna the ONLY cops in the city??), IV is saved by a tense climax, good visuals, and the most charasmatic villain in the series!
July 10, 2001, 11:20 a.m. CST
... either "Cannonball Run II" or "Home Alone 2: Lost in New York." "Batman and Robin" was "Citizen Kane" next to either of these.
July 10, 2001, 11:21 a.m. CST
Sequels must continue a story, thus there must be a story to continue. Furthermore there should be a degree of respect for the characters, that is why Aliens was so worthwhile: Ripley got the daughter she had lost back, and overcame her fear of androids. Issues which Cameron and co picked up on from the first. This was great, but then Alien 3, OK as movies go, came and crapped on the hard work. It is sickening. Trek movies do not have this problem, many are stand alone, but the early movies (2,3)had a story arc, and it made them work better. However, the Star Wars Trilogy worked OK but now Lucas is trying to tell a new story, that we only ever had glimpses of; sure, we are gonna be pissed off about that. That is why LOTR has to be so shit hot, cos of our ideas and imaginings, and sequels have this to contend with. From what M. says, MIB2 will be fine, taking it further, respecting it predecessor. A sequel has to start with respect.
July 10, 2001, 11:23 a.m. CST
... either "Cannonball Run II" or "Home Alone 2: Lost in New York." "Batman and Robin" was "Citizen Kane" next to either of these.
July 10, 2001, 12:04 p.m. CST
Every Trek fan I know loved DS9. We would have loved to see STX deal with the Dominion, with the Klingons and Romulans as tenuous allies. I at least hope they don't ignore the fact that the Romulans were major Allies in the biggest war the Federation had ever known. Oh, yea, I forgot, Berman/Braga ignore everything that happened on DS9.
July 10, 2001, 12:10 p.m. CST
Now that is has a pretty good script which may better Wrath of Khan all we need now is quality ILM effects and James Horner to repeat his great work from 2 & 3 and we may have a winner. Please lets get rid of Goldsmith its become very tired with his music. No doubt Picard will have some classic scenes. Next year is going to be great for movies!
July 10, 2001, 3:07 p.m. CST
just to advise you that the twin planet of Romulus is called Remus not Reman. It was also known as Romii in the original series. natives of Remus would probably be called Remans rather than Romulans.
July 10, 2001, 5:22 p.m. CST
Horner may have been a good composer once, but if you listen to one soundtrack, you've heard everyone of his. He rips off his own work. Battle Beyond the Stars, Star Trek II: THE SAME MUSIC! Jerry Goldsmith is still the best choice (and one, I'm sure Paramount will go with, because its cheaper to redo the same themes over than actually compose new ones) and it WOULD be interesting to hear John Williams give Trek a try. We must ban Horner, though. Oscar or no Oscar (plus, he reused a number of similar themes in that one, too). DS9 rules!
July 10, 2001, 6:20 p.m. CST
Okay not totally a three set, but a trilogy like Halloween 1, 2, and H20, or the three Wes Craven Nightmares- "Police Academy", "Police Academy 2", and "Police Academy: Mission to Moscow". Okay seriously I like to pretend that "Waterworld" "The Postman" and "3000 Miles to Graceland" are the "Kevin Costner should shoot himself" trilogy. And that "Unforgiven" is the "Dark Knight Returns" of the "Man with no Name" movies. But my favorite all time true sequel is proll'y "T2", which seemed to be much better than the first, whereas I'm worried that "T3" will just be an excuse to show the Terminator again instead of a real honest piece of work. Although I do love every James Cameron sci fi movie.... I'm just rambling now, I should finish this thing. Oh yeah, a trilogy they should make "Citizen Kaner" and "Citizen Kane with a Vengeance", directed by John Carpenter and starring Vincent D'nofrio as Kane, Angelina Jolie as his sexy sidekick, and Lucy Liu as his sexy sidekick, respectively. Villains played by Carrot Top, and Pauly Shore. Villains start dying five minutes into the movies, then a half hour later Kane finishes sawing their heads off with a butterknife and says something funny.
July 11, 2001, 12:33 p.m. CST
Almost every damn movie he's scored since ST2, has had the same "feel". Takes you right out of Aliens, Titanic , or whatever when Your looking for Khan to show up cuz of his "theme" music.
July 11, 2001, 2:49 p.m. CST
by Bad Guy
as far as Lethal Weapon 2 being better than 1, all I can say is that I haven't seen 2 since it was playing in theatres, but I remember not being that impressed with it. But part 1, I've watched over and over again on video and now DVD and it still holds up. All I know is that the characters became more and more cartoony with each sequel and I just didn't believe that their lives could actually be in danger anymore. When I finally caught part 4 on HBO I was glad I didn't spend the $8.00 to see it in a theatre, though I did lose 2 hours of my life that I'll never get back.
July 11, 2001, 5:53 p.m. CST
I'll respond directly to each section, please scroll down. > There were two alternate endings included in the script I > read. One of them maintains the status quo, while the > bolder of the two gives one of the franchise characters a > graceful exit. I hope they go for the second ending. If this > script proves anything, it's that this franchise is powered > by imagination, and as long as writers are able to play > with the characters and situations as ably as they have > here, it's not about the movie stars. That's a franchise > worth revisiting, indeed. Trek VII was sadly lackluster though tried being brilliant, VIII was a total farce, and IX borrowed so much from certain season 3 and 7 TNG TV show eps (namely "Who Watches the Watchers", "Evolution", "The Pegasus" et al) that no matter how good John was at directing it, it came across as old. Ultimately, it's the writing which will make or break X. What we do need is Nicholas Meyer - his Trek involvement is superior to everything else which is film-trek. > STAR TREK: NEMESIS > > Jonathan Frakes certainly has his work cut out for him. > > Yes, it's true. Number One is back in the director's chair > again with this, the tenth film in the seemingly endless > STAR TREK franchise. That's an old rumor, but his direction for his tv eps and two trek movies are very good. (I dislike VIII being a farce but the direction still had something the writing severely lacked). Let's hope Goldsmith retires and won't do more trek themes. They're even more stale... > And before you decide whether or not you should read > anything I have to say about the latest even-numbered > entry in the series, know this: I'm notorious around these > parts as the guy who doesn't like STAR TREK. Not the > original series, not the NEXT GENERATION, not DS9, and > not VOYAGER. Overall, I think there are bright spots here > and there over the course of what I've seen, and I don't > "hate" the shows. As far as the film series goes, I still > think WRATH OF KHAN is the Gold Standard by which the > films should be judged. YES!!!!! Not only did it have Meyer, but the humor was very much toned down. Only Treks 1 and 2 kept the humor toned down, if not present at all. 3 had some humor but still passed. 6 could easily had been better if they kept its silly streak down to a minimum as well. Oddly, the TNG show was made "serious" while TOS movies 4-6 were made and they were made with excessive humor, most of it bad. >THE VOYAGE HOME, a fan > favorite, bugs me because of how jokey and deeply silly it > is. I'd say my second favorite of the films is FIRST > CONTACT because, like KHAN, it's an adventure film first > and foremost, and it doesn't depend on a casual viewer's > total immersion in the arcana of the series in order to be > enjoyed. You're joking, yes? FIRST CONTACT was so much steeped in "fanwank" (references to the TV series, many of them also broke continuity!) that only fans would enjoy the movie. Well, certain fans. I am a fan and I think the movie is rubbish. FIRST CONTACT also suffers from being more "camp" in general. With the Queen christening it with "Watch your future's end" says it all. It's a romp. I've never liked romps; depth and intrigue are so much more satisfying. Zephie Cochrane states he made the warp drive for money - that scene is a shallow parallel to Paramount using Trek for money only. Even INSURRECTION (where the So'Na are the real good guys since the Ba'Ku were mean toward them) is satisfying. Besides, INSURRECTION has a unique twist on the moral preachings: The movie was supposed to be about the innocent Ba'ku, but it can't be ignored that the Baku kicked the Sona out of their society - the Sona were actually the parents of the Baku. The Sona were acting in retaliation to their meanspirited offspring. I'm sure there's a taboo parallel in society which this parallel scenario fits into. > Having said all of that, I'm encouraged by the direction > STAR TREK: NEMESIS seems to be heading. The > screenplay by John Logan, from a story by Logan, Rick > Berman, and Brent Spiner, is compellingly built, and if > this turns out to be the last NEXT GENERATION > installment in the series, as has been rumored, it's a > great place to leave these characters. There is a sense of > closure for them, even if the film allows for an open > ending. So far, sounds promising. They're letting in an outside to do some of the details of the plot. That's a plus. > The film opens with a credit sequence that sets up the > film's central mystery. We see molecules being > manipulated, genes being spliced. We see a meeting of > the Romulan senate, a three year old human boy standing > before them, alone and scared. We see the surface of the > Reman homeworld, sister planet to Romulus, cloaked > entirely in shadow, where the boy is led down into the > firey mines after one last look up at the stars overhead. > The images are stark and simple, and when they pay off > later in the script, I'd even describe them as haunting. About time we see the Romulans! Pity Q isn't involved... > From there, we cut to Earth. Alaska, specifically, where > the wedding reception of Will Riker and Deanna Troi is > underway. Picard is serving as best man, and delivering > the toast, wishing them "full sails and a clear horizon." All > the regular characters are in attendance: Beverly > Crusher, Geordi La Forge and his girlfriend Dr. Leah > Brahms (from the episodes "Galaxy's Child" and "Booby > Trap," as noted in the script), So Leah divorced her previous hubby and looked up Geordi's address?! That would make a made-for-tv reunion special all on its own! Making it a movie subplot doesn't sound right. >Commander Worf, > hungover from the bachelor party the night before. Data > performs Irving Berlin's "Blue Skies" with the band, an > obvious toss to Spiner's abilities as a song-and-dance > man. In some ways, this scene is what bugs me about > STAR TREK. Everyone makes their big entrance, and it > always feels like they're throwing the fans a bone. It feels > to me like when Fonzie would make his entrance in > HAPPY DAYS or when Ted Danson would walk on in > CHEERS and the audience would applaud. The actors > would take their moment, soak it up, and any sense of > reality just evaporated. Quite. Well, the movie probably takes place x years in the future... unlike Trek VI which was supposed to have character followups in the opening but were cut due to budget... Incidentially, is Picard STILL a captain or has he moved up in rank by now? That's another problem with TNG. Picard never goes up in rank. The only character who bothers to leave the Enteprise is Worf, and to date both theatrical reintroductions (with Insurrection in particular) were sloppily written in. >In an adventure movie, I don't > really need five pages where Beverly Crusher asks Worf > "Do Klingons swing?" On the other hand, for hardcore > fans, I suppose these introductory scenes are like family > reunions, and that balance between servicing the casual > viewer and the devoted fan is part of what makes certain > films in the series work and others fail. It's charming, hokey tv stuff. All TNG movies to date have felt like lengthy tv episodes. This is partly why. It also seems to be a TNG trademark so I may as well accept it. As with above, I'd remention nobody moving around in rank or place except for Worf - and his reintroductions to the Enterprise were badly done. Worf, in First Contact, would surely know where the weapons/tactical consoles are! I doubt they'd change much between Enterprise-D and -E. > Back on the Reman homeworld, we learn just how much > time has passed when we meet Shinzon, the film's major > villain. He and his Viceroy look up at Romulus in the sky > above, a glowing point of light, and talk about how their > plan is about to come to pass. It's standard bad guy > stuff, and it's always the least interesting part of any film > like this. Logan handles it quickly, though, and with > economy, and that's what makes the script snap. Bring in a shakspearean actor for the lead villain role. General Chang and Ro'afl were strong characters and their respective actors' shakespearean backgrounds added a real hit to their characters' menacing appearance. (Christopher Plummer and F Murray Abraham) > Back onboard the Enterprise, they're en route to Betazed > for the actual wedding ceremony, which is to be held in > the nude, much to Worf's horror. Picard and Data have > one of their patented conversations about a facet of > human behavior. It's fairly comfortable stuff until they > pick up an electromagnetic signature in a distant system, > an unusual one. Positronic. This seems particularly odd > since such a signature could only come from an android > like Data, and since there are only supposed to be two > androids with such a signature (Data and Lore), it proves > impossible for the Enterprise to pass without checking it > out. Sounds like just another typical tv episode being written by this point. :-( Why can't the Entperise be caught up in events instead of given sappy warnings like this? Trek II worked because Kirk got caught in Khan's maneuverings. > Picard, Data, and Worf take a shuttle to the surface, > mainly so Picard can get a chance to drive a giant 24th > Century military jeep. There are a number of moments in > this film in which Picard seems to be taking joy in life's > simple things, like a man realizing he's near the end of > something, and it's this characterization more than any > other that makes the script work, I think. Patrick Stewart > has always been, hands down, my favorite performer in > any of the STAR TREK material I've seen, and he > deserves this sort of role. Hopefully the jeep's brand name won't be advertised. This foreshadowing of Picard's character does sound mega-cool, however. About time in a way. (Stewart was in his 50s in 1987, so it seems reasonable that Trek X would see parallels between Stewart and Picard!) > Instead of solving the mystery of the positronic signals, > they find another mystery, even more confounding. The > signals are coming from a perfect replica of Data that has > been disassembled and scattered across the desert floor. > As they pick the pieces up, they are attacked by a group > of alien nomads, and a major action set piece unfolds. > There's a lot of comedy mixed in with the action, and it'll > be interesting to see if Frakes can blend the two with the > deft touch required. Frakes has worked wonders before. But I don't like the comedy addition at all. Comedy has always turned potentially great Trek films into comedic farces. > It's especially tricky because it leads right into the real > kick-off of the plot involving Shinzon. He and his Reman > soldiers break in on the Romulan Senate and announce > their plans to engage the Federation in a full-blown > military campaign to take back the Neutral Zone. One of > the reasons it seems like a perfect fit having John Logan > write this script is because he brings the same energy to > this material that he did to the political maneuverings in > GLADIATOR. "Gladiator" had nice effects, but the main problem was the plot. It was sloppily written. Lots of time was spent on battles, but lots of potentially good scenes were minimal and many details were glossed over or not addressed. Some issues went by so fast that it made no sense. "Gladiator" could have been good, but the writing was dilettante at best. And "Gladiator" was telling us a historical. If Logan can't do that properly, what chance does he have at fiction?!! > The two seemingly unrelated storylines start to come > together quickly as Shinzon manipulates the situation > from Romulus and Data attempts to unravel the mystery > behind his new "brother," B-9 (or Benign, as he's called). > Data's disappointed because Benign seems to be no > smarter than a child. There's an odd relationship that > plays out between these two beings that seem identical > on the surface but are nothing alike inside. For Data, this > is the defining moment in his quest to define his identity. Oh, brother. A "Datalore on crack" subplot! > It shouldn't come as a surprise that it's the Enterprise > that gets pressed into service when the Federation learns > of the situation on Romulus. It's certainly no coincidence. > As soon as the Enterprise is in orbit above Romulus, it is > engaged by Shinzon's Romulan Warbird, the Scimitar, a > ship that is at least twice the size of the Enterprise, > armed with weaponry that the Federation is totally > unaware of. Upon their first meeting, Deanna senses a > deep rage from Shinzon that seems to be entirely focused > on Picard. Scared for a reason he can't define, Picard > ends up talking to none other than Captain Janeway in a > cameo role (she's got two big scenes). Twice the size of the "Enterprise E"? The Enterprise-D was about twice as wide! If only Berman and co. used the "All God things" anti-time Enteprise-D in the movies, we'd (a) have a better looking ship and (b) a larger ship in which to pull the old "the enemy has a bigger gun than you do" trick. > It's page 52 when the film's biggest bombshell is > dropped, a plot twist that had Robogeek gasping in > annoyance when I told it to him last week. I won't give it > away here, but I will remind you that Paramount has > already confirmed that the film has something to do with > cloning. The nature of Shinzon and his "brother" mirrors > the storyline between Data and his, and it pays off in a > number of unexpected ways. In both cases, one of the > pair has a weakness that makes him somehow "lesser" > than his twin, and in both cases, hard choices have to be > made about what looking into this mirror image says > about one's self. Both of these twins were created for > possibly dangerous purposes, and both are eventually > brought to understand something about their better > natures. Well, I might see the flick but it's unimpressive as a whole. > The rest of the film is a balls-out action film, unrelenting > in pace, and should please audiences immensely as long > as Paramount doesn't pull their standard low-ball > horseshit on the FX budget. Spring for ILM. You won't > have many more chances to please the fans, and if this > delivers, you'll be pleasing a much larger audience than > normal. Action sells. Look at the glossy slop known as "Gladiator". > This could well turn into the largest crossover hit > for STAR TREK since WRATH OF KHAN. I don't think so, somehow. > There's a > definite echo in the ending of this film as one of the major > players sacrifices him or herself in a very moving way, > and the results of that play out over the last ten pages > with real honesty. As long as they don't undermine the > move a la SEARCH FOR SPOCK, it should stand as one of > the emotional high points for all involved. Quite. Brent Spiner has always talked about leaving since a mortal cannot play an immortal android. Picard is also a logical choice to be killed off. > If all sequels were approached with the sense of invention > that these two seem to have been, then perhaps "sequel" > wouldn't be such a dirty word. Let's just hope that the > journey from script to screen for these projects is a > successful one, and that they prove to be the enormous > entertainments they look like at this stage.
July 14, 2001, 11:22 a.m. CST
This is actually the sort of script and direction Star trek in the movies should have gone a long time ago. i just hope it actually all works. THG was such a superior series the last three years of its life to anything the TOS could have come upwith and thats why i enjoyed it bcame a huge Star Trek fan. Unlike some Trekkers out there good acting and scripts are important to me. If you look at the the best Generation episodes like "The Drumhead" you know what I am talking about. Also the very last episode "All good things" was soo much better than any Next Generation movie.....god I am rambling....I am sick and Nyquil though.....Hope they finally get it right wiht this movie
July 15, 2001, 7:30 a.m. CST
I have been following the STAR TREK X thread for a while and most posts seem to agree that the next film should be dramatic, exciting, action-packed and also include an ounce of tragedy. The presence of a strong villain, maybe a Romulan, emphasis on outer space and theme not unlike ST II (John Logan's favorite Trek film and dare I say, most Trekkers too) are good signs of things to come. In my opinion, the next film should NOT BE LIGHTHEARTED OR TRIVIAL. It should show the scars of time and age, they way ST II did, and it should be EPIC in scale. I am not a fan of Rick Berman. I believe that Berman has not honored the Star Trek film franchise the way a Harve Bennet, Nicholas Meyer or Leonard Nimoy have in the past. His films, apart from some set pieces in FIRST CONTACT, tend to be inconsequenetial, juvenile, shoddily edited and shot, making even the usually reliable Jerry Goldsmith scores sound tedious and sometimes even omitting music (I still cannot forget the climactic fight between Kirk and Soran in GENERATIONS that contained NO MUSIC AT ALL!) The Berman films also lack strong villains, drama or characterization. They are not 'event' films anymore. Nevertheless, the hiring of cinematographer Dante Spinotti (L.A. CONFIDENTIAL, LAST OF THE MOHICANS and THE INSIDER among many films) and scribe John Logan (GLADIATOR) are excellent steps in the right direction. I have to bow to Berman's choices so far. I only hope Berman continues in the right direction and try to nab a FILM DIRECTOR, not a TV hack for the new Trek. I personally think Leonard Nimoy, whose passion and hard work has served Trek well in the past, would be a wonderful choice (especially if he's also playing Spock, which I hope he will). I hope they don't go for Jonathan Frakes or Levar Burton. Frakes is a schizophrenic director; he can be surprisingly good (FIRST CONTACT) or terrible (INSURRECTION, which should have been subtitled LOST HORIZONS or THE SOUND OF MUSIC). Burton did solid work on tv but he is an unknown quantity. I would use Burton if the Trek movie series was in good shape and one wanted to experiment, they way they did with Nimoy and Shatner, but this is NO TIME FOR EXPERIMENTATION. This movie franchise, which has been the victim of creative and financial diminishing returns, needs experienced film people at the helm. It needs to REVITALIZE the Trek movie series after the dissapointing and downright infuriating INSURRECTION the way GOLDENEYE revitalized the Bond series. It needs fresh blood and bold ideas. Paramount pictures must not skimp their resources on this one; they have a major franchise and they should not neglect it. Let them spend $80 to $100 million on the film, hire the best f/x houses, up the action ante, hire a well known and talented actor for the villain role (Alan Rickman, Geoffrey Rush, Jonathan Price) , and so forth. Give STAR TREK X everything. If it succeeds great, if it fails, well at least they gave it their best. If the quality of the film is subpar, they will end up with a $55 million gross (ST V) or a $70 million one (INSURRECTION). Audiences are not stupid. They know a good film when they see one and that is why the highest grossing Trek films were FIRST CONTACT ($90), STAR TREK IV (over $100 million), the others all made over $75 million - if you adjust those today in inflation they would be worth more than $90 million due to much higher ticket prices than those in '82, 84 or '91. You and I know that audiences will not pay money to see a Voyager or Deep Space 9 film (I enjoyed both those shows, although I am not a fan of technobabble, I would love to see cameos by both casts in the next film). They have proven however that they will go see a NEXT GEN film (FC) if its a quality product. In other words, if STAR TREK X fails as a film, it could be the end of the Next Generation Trek movie franchise and then Paramount might have to look in their old dustbins for stuff like STAR TREK: STARFLEET ACADEMY (Freddie Prinze anyone?). Everything rests on STAR TREK X. I just hope Paramount and the producers know that. Give us a WRATH OF KHAN for this new millenium. We've waited long enough.
July 19, 2001, 9:50 p.m. CST
I, personally love Trek. Even the "stinkers" like The Motion Picture and The Final Frontier, and I am looking forward to Star Trek X. It's been reported at startrek.com that writer John Logan is a major Trek fan himself, thus he will do the script justice. In fact, he's such a major fan, it's been reported, that he's including little "easter eggs" that other real "Trekkers" will recognize and most non-Trekkers won't. I will definitely be looking for those (yes I'm a Trek geek...but I wear the title with pride). To the naysayers, it just so happens that even-numbered Trek movies are the most popular, so I've got high hopes for X. As far as MIB 2 is concerned, I'll check it out, but I'm not exactly dying to see it.
July 20, 2001, 2:03 p.m. CST
Insurrection was a good movie, just not a good Star Trek movie. If they wanted to do something on an epic scale, they should have done a trilogy based on the Dominion War all three shows characters involvements. Obviously the Voyager's involvement would wait until the third movie. But in the novels they have tied all four series together with some very good storylines. Unfortunately, the people in charge of ST do not want to look at the darker side of space travel/adventure. Originally H.R. Geiger was to be involved in redesigning the Borg, but that got nixed because Trek producers didn't want the franchise to go in that direction. So, unfortunately for us Trek fans, we're stuck with the campy, happy go lucky, reconfigure the deflector dish to save the universe story lines.
July 23, 2001, 9:24 p.m. CST
As I read these posts, one of the most frequently voiced criticisms of the TNG era Trek films is the Directorial abilities of Jonathan Frakes. Now, on the one hand, I would like to say that, like Bill Shatner, Frakes has gotten a pretty raw deal from Parasite... err, Paramount Pictures. Insurrection and First Contact, though conceptually better in all regards than Trek 5, suffered from severe budgetary cutbacks and schedual compression. Any Director will tell you, from Kubrick to Ed Wood, the worst thing you can do to a director, especially AFTER shooting starts, is to take away most of the time and money you said they could have to finish the pic. They did it to Shatner with Trek 5, which was a huge mistake because he needed all the help he could get. Frakes has suffered from this as well, though it may not be quite as apparent since the technology for special effects has gotten so advanced, a cheap film can still run rings around the original versions of Jedi or Empire, depending on the cleverness of the director. Is Frakes that clever? Part of me wants to believe so (Nobody can be as unclever as Shatner, for Chrissakes!). Nonetheless, one has to account for the probability that, even if Frakes does have the sort of cinematic vision and Grace that has made directors like Nick Meyers and Leonard Nimoy stand out in Trekdom, the fact that the studio conciders him a "TV Hack who can be had for cheap" means that they've already condemned the project in their ledgerbooks. Still, there's hope. Just as one holds out painfully that "Enterprise" not only won't suck, but may even surpass TOS and TNG in video greatness, one can hope that they will either put an experienced cinematic lensbender at the helm, or at least give Frakes the budget, the time and the tools to show us all what he's really made of. Here's an idea that should have occured to them when Robert Wise was telling them that TMP "wasn't finished yet"; Let the fucking director finish the fucking movie BEFORE you release it! We've been watching a raw rough-cut for over 20 years now, and only now, for the DVD market, is Wise being allowed to finish the film. And for the fans, I must say that you really should say to yourselves, "It's just a movie/TV show". I'm not saying "Get A Life"... Hell, I've got all 6 Enterprises displayed on my bedroom wall, and I'm 36! I admit it, I'm a geek! But I'm still willing to let myself be entertained, even if it does take some digging... After all, Even Trek 5 did have its moments. Now, if you don't mind, I have to go beat up Emmerich and Devlin before they try to make a Gammera movie! Titties, Boritom
July 23, 2001, 9:40 p.m. CST
From our Home office on Cardassia Prime, The TOP 10 DIRECTORS THEY COULD'VE ASKED TO DO TREK 10: (Drumroll, Paul) 10: Lee Majors (He only directed 1 episode of 6 mil, but he's still in the guild) 9: Robert Redford (A Quantum Filiment Runs Through It) 8: Wes Craven (A Nightmare on Bajor) 7: Dean Devlin (With Matthew Broderick as Captain Kirk's clone) 6: Roger Corman (He's still alive?) 5: William Shatner (Trek X : The Tax Write-off) 4: Kevin Smith (Jay and Silent Bob Strike Dilithium) 3: Inoshiro Honda (Data as a 400 foot tall android lizard in Tokyo) 2: Howard Stern (Finally, we'd get to see Deanna's boobies! PLUS: Data and Worf in a Fart-Off!) and the #1 Director they could've chosen for Star Trek 10... John Waters (Polyester:TNG) I'm done now, you can resume hating me with every ounce of your mortal breath.
July 24, 2001, 10:21 a.m. CST
The clone is a clone of Picard, not Spock or anyone elose for that matter. Also, the clone will be a younger Picard so Connery is out right there. As has already been discussed, Data will be the one to die. Personally, I like the entire script as I understand it. The idea that Janeway is in 2 to 3 crucial scenes is a big plus in my book. I've even heard that she was promoted to admiral and will act as Picard's superior. As I've been told, Picard talks with Janeway in this movie because she acts as his liasson to Starfleet during this mission to stop a Romulan War. It's about time Voyager get it's chance in the sun. Janeway is a great captain and the Voyager crew was excellent. I'm bored with TNG and I think this script will give the crew the closure they need while acting as a good place to start Voyager films. After all Picard loses half of his crew by the end of the movie with Riker taking command of the U.S.S. Titan and Troi following her husband while Crusher accepts a higher position at Starfleet Medical and Data dies leaving Picard with only Worf and Geordi. Bye-Bye TNG. Hello Voyager.
July 25, 2001, 7:33 p.m. CST
Why not bring Wil Wheaton's character back? After being assisted in his evolution by the traveler he hasn't been heard of since! It would be awesome to incorporate an arch in the story line that involves him! Am I the only one who thinks this would be great!
Aug. 5, 2001, 9:53 p.m. CST
When Iread the Star Trek X summary, I discovered that you misspelled Remus. The twin planets of the Romulans are: Romulus and Remus, not Reman.
Aug. 10, 2001, 4:20 p.m. CST
How the hell does Picard end up answering to Janeway ? Picard was in command of the Stargazer before the Enterprise . He must have been sitting in that seat since Janeway was in first grade and she's his superior now ?
Aug. 27, 2001, 6:59 p.m. CST
by Yurrin Trekker
The francise is exactly like watching a TNG episode. Of course, so was ST 1-6, to get down to brass tacks. Why would anyone 'spect a change now? ******************* No way they'll make another, unless the premise will be how some cadavers were energized with residual plasma.***************** I hope it is Alda, I mean Data, who buys the farm. YT
Sept. 21, 2001, 9:41 p.m. CST
Tell me Rick Berman isnt ripping off Star Wars... fire him already and bring in Majel Barrett-Roddenberry as Exec Producer! AT least shes made one good scifi series. (TREK TNG is not a berman series)
Sept. 21, 2001, 9:46 p.m. CST
It was funny, brought back the spirit of the original, showed what could go wrong with time travel and showed interesting scenes where Marty was in close area with Marty of a day earlier. The futuristic scenes were also cool. Back to the Future III was solid as well, but I have problems with it. First, I hate the idea of a theme movie as a sequel, "Marty and Doc go to the old west" is basically this films plot, that I dont like, and secondarily the cheezy optimistic ending, which is the cause of the 80s but I didnt like it. Still its not a bad sequel in the vein of Star Trek IX, or Batman and Robin.
Oct. 15, 2001, 6:36 p.m. CST
by Unimatrix Zero
Yo all you trekkies out there. I have some things to say and comment on the tenth installment of Star Trek. First off, I like the idea from good 'ol Cirroc who pointed out that he thinks that Will Wheaton should come back to play Wesley Crusher. He should have a girlfriend...you know, like Sarah Michelle Gellar who kicks all space vampire's asses? Or some hot chick who can get the job done. Or maybe not Wesley, but someone like Cheif O'Brien, even though he's at Deep Space Nine, he could go to Riker and Troi's wedding though, couldn't he? Like Worf? And the idea of getting Captain Kathryn Janeway (Kate Mulgrew) into a NEXT GENERATION film? No, no, no. Tisk, tisk, tisk. They should have gotten someone from the original crew to do it, like Chekov or someone. Janeway was in the fourth series. Picard was in the second. Picard doesn't need to be getting orders from Janeway. Does everyone see my point? Man I love the idea of making more and more movies on Star Trek. However, I was not a hardcore fan of Deep Space Nine as I was of The Next Generation and Voyager. I feel that the next movie, if they make one after X, will be based upon Deep Space Nine, and Worf will still be in those (I'm not saying Michael Dorn will be, Im just saying Worf will be) since that series is next after The Next Generation. Also, there are your rumors of Picard or Data dying in the end of the film, and Picard or Spock or Kirk being cloned. If anyone should be cloned, it should be Spock. Kirk's dead, people. Live with it. Sooner or later, all of them will die. Doctor McCoy could not be cloned, so it leaves Spock, man. And if anyone SHOULD die, it should be Picard. He's getting way too old, and if these movie makers are like planing to kill Picard off in the next film, like they did with Kirk, that's a very bad idea. Patrick Stewart is getting old himself, and he might die soon. Then what, leave him hanging with no idea what happens to him, like what happened to McCoy? Well thanks for all of your time reading this, if you did. I'd just also like to say I liked Men In Black, so I cant wait for that movie, either. However, Star Trek X won't ptobably come out for at least another year. Well I'll wait for the next review on this. See ya.
Dec. 27, 2001, 10:44 p.m. CST
i think only the shinzon fleet will attack the federation,because if the romulan empire will launch a full attack on the federation,the feds will not have a chance.they lose a lot in the dominion war,much more than romulans.the feds are outgunned by romulans.i asked myself what the klingons will do.will they defent theil loved allies,or they will sit and watch. slava romulus.glory belongs to the romulan ppatriots!!!!!
Dec. 27, 2001, 10:52 p.m. CST
The Dominion : They came. They saw. They infiltrated. They started a war. They kicked butt, took names, made allies and gave the Star Trek universe the shake-up it needed before they lost the war. TGL assumes that the terms of the surrender include a complete withdraw of all Dominion personnel and equipment from the Alpha Quadrant. They still have a considerable number of ships and Jem'Hadar within their Gamma Quadrant foothold, and they still pose a very real threat to the Alpha Quadrant. Odo is the key. The Founders managed to get him to return home (with an unexpected assist from Section 31 of course). What effect Odo will have on the Founders, and what effect they'll have on him, is uncertain - especially if the Constable reveals the source of the disease. One suspects that the Founders discovered this information as soon as Odo shared form and thought with the Great Link. If that's the case, then it's hard to see how the Constable can convince his fellow Changelings that the Solids aren't a threat. The Federation : Victorious for another day, and another series. According to "The Siege of AR-558" the UFP were losing an average of 51,900 troops per month during the war. That works out to around 1,245,600 casualties in total for the war, the chances are that the final figure is higher. This has been a long and gruelling war for the UFP and they'll have to work overtime to rebuild ships, defences and Starfleet Headquarters. The UFP should also rethink their exploration methods, which were partially responsible for starting this war in the first place. Even after the Dominion told the UFP to stop entering the Gamma Quadrant, the Federation continued to do just that throughout the next three years. Section 31 : The UFP's black ops department may have failed to eliminate the Founders, but they are masters of covering their own tracks by now and will continue to do the Federation's dirty work, especially considering the highly-placed allies they seem to have within Starfleet. Red Squad : Face an uncertain future. The 'best of the best' not only attempted to aid Admiral Leyton's efforts to take control of Earth, but later, several members of Red Squad attempted to take on a Dominion battleship instead of returning home. If this is the best the UFP have to offer, then there has to be a serious re-think about the Federation's training methods. The Klingon Empire : The Alpha Quadrant warriors have (after the Cardassians) probably been the biggest losers of this war. Or should I say, wars. The Martok Changeling succeeded in causing large scale destruction of Klingon ships and personnel while within the Empire. 'Martok', presumably, encouraged Gowron to launch an invasion of Cardassian space in early 2374, swiftly followed by an attack on DS9. Even when Gowron ordered that the invasion be aborted, several Klingon ships were ordered to fortify their positions within Cardassian space, and they did so for the next 18 months. Who knows how many warriors were killed by Cardassians eager to reclaim lost pride and territory during this time? Then, just before the signing of the second Knitomer Accords in mid 2373, the Klingon forces within Cardassian space got their honourable backsides kicked as they were ejected out of Cardassian territory by the Jem'Hadar. Six months later, the Empire, along with their Federation allies, went to war against the Dominion. The losses for the Empire and its battle-hungry warriors must have been considerable during the war, to the point that even Alexander, Worf's son, who could hardly control a Bat'leth, was drafted into the Klingon Defence forces. A few weeks later, Gowron would initially refuse Martok's request for help to retake DS9. The Chancellor feared that sending ships to aid Sisko's multi-fleet task force would leave the Empire vulnerable to a Dominion attack. The Empire will recover, but it may take a while. Director Sloan of Section 31 predicated that after the war is over, it may take the Empire ten years to recover, during which time they won't pose a threat to anyone. He may be right. Still, now that Worf is the UFP ambassador to the Empire, relations between the Empire and Federation have never been so good The Cardassian Union : Ruined. Broken. Defeated. Over 800 million dead. That's the price Cardassia has paid for getting into bed with the devil. They'll survive. But not without help. A lot depends on who's Cardassia's next leader will be. Will that person encourage his/her people to remember Damar and the lessons he learnt? Or will the Cardassians, not for the first time, go down the path of arrogant aggression? They won't pose a threat to anyone for years to come. They'll have to rely on the Federation's generosity, and perhaps, protection. There's also the matter of possible occupation of the home world (and other territory) by the war allies, who will probably want to have a major say in how Cardassia is governed in the future. The Klingons and Romulans in particular, may be eager to demand territorial concessions from the Cardassians as compensation for betraying the Alpha Quadrant over two years ago. Having said that, its unlikely that the sons and daughters of Cardassia will stand for their home world to be occupied again. The Breen Confederacy : Now that the war allies know how to protect themselves from the Breen's energy-dampening weapons, the Confederacy will most likely retreat back to their territory, lick their wounds, and become even more mysterious to anyone who isn't Breen. Bajor : Still waiting for Federation membership. TGL doubts if Colonel Kira's people will be waiting much longer, one suspects that with the UFP getting back onto its feet after the war, the Federation Council will be after all the members they can get. Bajor may play a key role in helping the Cardassian Union to get back onto its feet, but that will depend on the new leader of Cardassia and his/her attitude towards the Bajoran people, as well as the attitude of the Bajoran people towards the Cardassians. The Romulan Star Empire : Despite the temporary loss of the Tai-Shiar and heavy casualties during the Dominion's counter strike at Chin'toka, the pointed-eared ones have come out of this war rather well. They signed a non-aggression pact with the Dominion in late 2373 which delayed their entry into the war for over eight months - the method of their arrival into the conflict is another story which will result in eyebrows being raised and phaser banks being charged if the truth of Sisko's dance in the pale moonlight ever comes out. There's also the question of the Federation-owned Benzar star system, which the Romulans librated from the Dominion after they entered the war. Now that the war is over, will the Empire give Benzar back to the UFP? "...when the war is over the following will happen in short order : The Dominion will be forced back to the Gamma Quadrant. The Cardassian Empire will be occupied. The Klingon Empire will spend the next ten years recovering from the war and won't pose a serious threat to anyone. That leaves two powers to vie for control of the quadrant - the Federation and the Romulans."(Director Sloan-inter arma enim silent leges ds9). who want to talk with a romulan fanatic fan or if anybody who want to talk on other trek things,mail me at email@example.com jolan tru!!!!!
May 8, 2002, 8:55 p.m. CST
Science fiction has taken a wicked turn ever since special effects improved our vision of what the future should look like. The acting in science fiction movies has lagged a bit too, just look at the crap that is coming out now - nothing to whet my not so easily amused sci-fi appetite. I think that Nemesis should be bold and exotic. I think this should motivate those sci-fi biased bastards at the academy awards to finally give a best picture award to a science fiction movie. The oroginal Terminator deserved it. Total Recall deserved it. They at least deserved to be nominated. The casting looks good. Ashley Judd is a good actor, as is Patrick Stewart. I guess dirction is ok, Johnathan Frakes has been successful in his previous star trek ventures-that a well known critic named Lenord Maltin seemed to like - he gave them both 3 stars. I hope that this movie is earth shattering.
March 1, 2009, 8:12 p.m. CST
Frakes should not be allowed in any director chair ever again. Its not entirely his fault, the script/story is totally contrived, boring, unimaginative & just idiotic. The whole deal with Shinzon could have been so much cooler but it turned into the standard bad guy bullshit. The Viceroy character should have been cut completely, I found any scenes with him excruciatingly badly done, overplayed & stale. The scene with Picard driving around in a buggy was so WTF..?! Dont they have anti-gravity technology..why on earth would you need a 4wd buggy when you can hover/fly above the surface at will???! Shinzon's ship was likely designed by a 7 year old with crayons, talk about ridiculous.. (In kiddie voice) *its got 4,0000 photon launchers & 1 MILLION PHASERS and big wings and rocket jets on the back and 1,0000 laser beams coming out of it!!!* Erm...no..it totally breaks consistency with the trek universe & for plots sake retarded. I could go on. I hope the new movie is something the canonista's will HATE because trying to please those basement dwelling sub humans almost destroyed TREK.
March 1, 2009, 8:14 p.m. CST
"The idea that Janeway is in 2 to 3 crucial scenes is a big plus in my book. " LOL well that didn't happen did it??!! She got 20 seconds on a monitor..