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Project Rage rages about PEARL HARBOR
Hey folks, Harry here... Project Rage seems really quite disappointed in PEARL HARBOR... you see, it seems Project Rage is a Michael Bay fan, but this film let him down. What does this mean? Well it could mean that Jeffrey Wells and Moriarty will love PEARL HARBOR and that I could Hate it. Or it could mean that everyone will love the action but be disappointed by the film. Or this guy could be a loon and we'll all love the film. Or he's not being hard enough on the film and it blows like Moriarty after the glass teet... Only time will tell (and not much time at that)
Pearl Harbor
I am Project Rage
First of all, I pray to the gods that Hallenbeck could come out of
retirement and critique this film.
Second I pray that Bay and Bruckheimer drastically re-edit this film. This
was the finished print. But I hope they could cut the film after it comes
out, like 2001 did years ago. It needs it so bad.
But alas no fruitation will come of this.
This movie has always been a sure deal in an ideal executive's mind; it was
probably sold on the aspect that it's a "Titanic meets Saving Private Ryan"
story. It has the love story of Titanic and the uncomfortable grit of
reality of Private Ryan. With this concoction mixed with the special fx of
ILM, directing by Bay, produced by Bruckheimer and the teenage girl lust for
Hartnett and Ben Affleck, you would think that this film is a sure win.
I'm a huge admirer of the above films and also everything of Michael Bay's.
So to watch this film spin out of control was off putting. In the
Armageddon DVD it was mentioned by Jerry Bruckheimer that Michael Bay has a
deft styling to direct a film that would appeal to a younger 13 year old
style audience and his kid like quality is what carries him. Some would
argue this. This movie lacked this magical wonderment quality and tried to
appeal more to a younger woman crowd. The fist half of the movie is set up
to care about the characters, this is where the damage to the film was made,
to me I didn't care about the characters, I felt detached. Originally the
film was to start off with Affleck and Hartnett being brothers and falling
for the same girl. Then it was changed to them just being good friends
lusting for the same girl. For some reason the creative team thought it was
too redneckish (they speak sort-of southern), though I disagree and I
believe this is what damaged the film. At the end the original idea would
have brought closure to this relationship to the end. It's like deleting
the brother aspect in the film Legends of the fall. It's insane.
Like titanic the first half of this movie is all a slow love story, then to
juxtapose it turns into a disaster film. The major battle doesn't start till
an hour into it. And I felt like I was waiting for the real film to start.
Ben Afflecks subplot to Europe is horrible and when he reappears it feels
trite and soap-opera-ish. Another annoying thing is the constant homages; In
Armageddon this aspect made it fun, but the seriousness of this film made it
feel just ripped-off. There was so many,
1.Titanic (especially)
2. Armageddon
3.Thin Red line
4 Blair witch
5. Top Gun
The list goes on and on, but this felt so annoying. Especially the love
scene from in the Parachute room, just like titanic's sex in the car. It
made my eyes roll. Then there's a soldier with a speech impediment, which
was suppose to be comic relief, his speech impediment sounded so weird, that
it sounded like he was farting. I don't know why, but it was so weird. He
was as annoying as a jar-jar binks. Kate Backinsale rocked as always, and
her scene where she decides, who's dead and who needs medical attention
after the infamous battle. She's pretty cool, and the use of her lipstick
was brilliant.
The supporting characters in this film are great.
1. Dan Aykroyd (I think he's sucked lately, but he was great in this little
part.)
2. William Fichtner as the abusive dad in the beginning. (overacting like a
mutha) Brilliant.
3. Cuba was great! Real low-key When he's told by the captain, that he was
the pride of the ship. Cuba's smile. great scene.
4. John Voight as FDR, great work! The makeup on him was phenomenal. The man
has a huge doublechin.
5. Tom Sizemore was mediocre. Him firing at the sky with the shotgun, I
just wish there was more of him.
6. A guy named
"Goose" (homage to Top Gun); he was hilarious pilot, with a
very dry sense of humor.
7. Mortal Kombat- Rising sun-Japanese-guy. He's great as one of the
captains of the raid on Pearl Harbor. Always great to see him.
8. Alec Baldwin as Doolittle had some nice scenes, and is in a lot of the
movie, more than what I thought. He's the glue at the end of the movie.
Visuals: Schwartzman's cinematography was excellent and ILM's work was
flawless. Super photoreal, Opposite of the Mummy returns. Great stuff.
Sound: This film is mixed in DTS, SRD, and full 8 Channel SDDS. The bass
is amazing. See it in SDDS 8 if you can. Not much during the first half
except some flybys. But the music of the Japaneese preparing to fight WOW!!
So much bass. Some cool S*%T! Battle scenes deliver on the sound. Hans
Zimmer's score, sounded Morricone-ish at the beginning then turns into a
universal-team-zimmer-brucheimer-theme. I always have a weakness to this
theme. But Zimmer delivers, but mostly on his subtle work, and his Japanese
motif.
The ending is what hurt the movie the most, there's this tacked on narration
by Kate Backinsale, "Why you should care about Pearl Harbor". With a model
shot of the Arizona, identical to the ending shot in Titanic. It made me
hurt. Please Bay remove this.
I really cared about this movie a lot, but it fails on many levels. I just
pray that Bay makes a director's cut on DVD, and it to be brilliant. He a
great director, with a great film. He just needed more time to edit.
I'm sad.
I am Project Rage.
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It is nice to see our own Ewan Bremner in this flick who i believe provides some comic relief. I think he was the Donkey Boy in Korines Dogme hash. Must confess that i don't relish a three hour movie about this particular subject matter. I don't wish to offend anyone who feel strongly about these events but i can't help feeling that the movie will be a piece of retrospective rosey glasses propoganda.My only hope is that when Dubya really starts oppressing you lot that it will have a really positive effect on your cinema like in the post vietnam seventies.
Pretentious, watashi? -
Buy your ticket, then play video games in the lobby for the first 45 minutes, then walk in in time for the invasion. Sounds like a plan.
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Just saw the LA, Entertainment Weekly sneak preview of Shrek and the film rocked. Everyone left the theater talking about how funny and entertaining the movie was--I predict Shrek will sink Disney's Pearl Harbor a few weeks after Pearl Harbor's release.
A few of my friends in the media who saw an early screening of Pearl Harbor reflected Rage's review. They were very disappointed with the scenes that bookend the film's amazing action sequence.
Shrek and Pearl Harbor are two different films, but I hope Dreamworks comes out on top after everyone gets over Pearl Harbor... -
May 16, 2001 3:31:27 AM CDT
Hey Harry, why are you bursting out of the head of a big purple
by knight says"ni"
A reenactment of your conception?
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I have seen that crappy, sappy, wannabe patriotic emotional trailer so many times, I'm SICK of it and don't even feel like seeing the damn movie anymore. Maybe that little voice-over by Jon Voight is supposed to hit a chord if you're American, I don't know?!? Hey, I can tell you the plot right now: you get to know the characters, then there's lots of action and lots of sad parts. Boo hoo. If you want to see it anyways, hey it's your money.
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May 16, 2001 3:41:16 AM CDT
commercials for pearl keep getting better and better cant wait
by jon-e-blaze
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So it's a super patriotic, kill-our-enemies flick about war, eh? Someone, when they see it, please count how many American flags are put up on screen because I garuntee you there will be at least three thousand shots of it in three hours. Manipulative patriotism galore, I tells ya. I think it'd be interesting if while "Pearl Harbor" was released there'd be another film about the internment Japanese Americans on US soil during WW2. Better still, while "Pearl Harbor" is in theaters, "Grave of the Fireflies" gets a theatrical run as well. Just playing devil's advocate and rabble rouser, saying both sides should have their representation. Wishful thinking, I suppose. Everyone have a heckuva day.
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This has the feel of a movie assembled by committee from every other epic in the last few years. The result will most likely be an incoherent mess. I trust Ewan Bremner was paid well for soiling himself so.
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Okay, the new rule is... if you call the movie "Showgirls" a classic, all of your opinions are thereby nullified. If I had a large bazooka, I would shoot you in the face with it. And shame on you for disgracing "Requiem for a Dream" by placing it in a sentence with the worst "film" of all time.
Oh... and I suppose I'm looking forward to Pearl Harbor, seeing as how this has been the worst year for movies since... well, since last year. -
I'm sick of all you people slagging off Pearl Harbour! Propaganda? What utter flapdoodle! How can you not see the events of Pearl Harbour from an American perspective? The "propaganda" is probably based on the unfolding of events as they actually happened, so as not to present an anachronistic view, in hindsight, of the events which took place. Look at Thirteen Days, for example. That movie did not show the Soviet point of view for a reason, so as to showcase the tension within the White House. If they'd shown that the Soviets perspective in the Cuban Missile crisis then the movie would have suffered. It was based on what the US government DIDN'T know and how they tried to sort the situation out. Therefore, can we not open our minds just a little bit to realise that this movie could actually be showcasing an American perspective of a surprise attack on Pearl Harbour? It wasn't anticipated and drew the US into a war they'd previously ignored. As for comparisons with Titanic - FUCK TITANIC! That is the biggest pile of crap ever and does not even deserve the American perspective, which James Cameron saw fit to saturate it with. It had nothing to do with America and is the biggest load of historical nonsense I have ever seen. Raise the Titanic had more relevance. So, in sum, stop whining about historical accuracy because there is no such thing - only opinions. And by the postings on this subject all your opinions about propaganda are shite! Look "propaganda" up in the dictionary because you clearly dont understand what it means.
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The general public is f&#king incompetent. Why is "The Mummy" making so much money? I could see how lame the effects were the first time I saw the trailer, and that piece of dogs#!t is doing better than Star Wars, for Christ's sake... if I were a Hollywood exec, I'd engineer loud, flashy, hollow movies by the dozen - you REALLY have to screw those up to lose money.
But at least Bay movies look amazing and have adrenaline, which is more than can be said for most summer flicks. Holy lord remember Godzilla and Deep Impact?!? I'm getting nauseous just thinking about them... -
My God! I never would have thought that a Michael Bay directed film would be anything but subtle, skillfully rendered, multilayered, thought-provoking, well organized, logical, and smart! When I heard that Bay would be directing Pearl Harbor, I thought, wow, what a great choice to handle a serious, painful, and important piece of American History? Who better to thoughtfully tell the story, to be fair to all sides? What director would be more able to avoid the temptation of simply flag waving and appealing to base nationalistic jingoism? I mean, when in Bay's past has he draped American flags all over the background? Never, not that I can recall! When has he been anything but subtle in his work? Never once! When has he not woven a textured and deep and smart story together? Not one time! His track record gave me such confidence that this film would be the perfect mixture that would entertain, inform, and provoke thought and give due respect to fighting men on both sides of a tragic conflict. I am shocked to learn that this MAY not be so! I'll have to go put in my Custom Director's Cut Special Edition Gold Deluxe Edition Limited Run DVD of Armageddon in the player and watch it to reassure myself that Bay is, in fact, the genius I know him to be.
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People who've seen this have said to a fault that it apes the "Titanic" style and pattern in the cynical hope of striking the same motherlode. American dude, British girl, big disaster happening all around, much onscreen loss of life, above average attention to period detail and use of widescreen. I guess that's okay if you liked "Titanic" but if it's true, this will prove you can mimic a hit (or create a "sequel") to a successful film w/o having that oppressive "II", "III" or "VIII" after it. I don't think this film will be interesting in the slightest, just big with the boom boom. I'm looking forward to "Shrek", "Amelie" and "Planet of the Apes" in that order. -
I highly doubt I will see this movie, simply because I don't want to spend 10 bucks and a few hours to prove a point to myself. Why should we need a love story to care about these characters? If this is a story about Pearl Harbor, then make it about Pearl Harbor. I have said from the start that I didn't believe that Jerry Bruckheimer and Michael Bay could pull this off and it looks like I may be right. War movies, especially those depicting a major, real event, require a certain amount of taste and judgement - something these men have repeatedly shown that they lack - I think its a shame that the record on film of the Pearl Harbor attack will have been produced by these hacks.
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I just got back from France. Over there, the trailer was cobbled together to give a very we're-all-in-it-together kind of feel. Yeah, right. Now tell me again how the US won the Battle of Britain... By the way, "Tigerland" is the best war movie to come out in ages. Who'd a thunk that a leathery old Hollywood poove like Joel Schumacher would've come up with such a gritty, low-key film. Maybe there's hope for Bay & Co. yet.
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And he rules (the Mortal Kombat guy who is also in "Planet of the Apes"). I, too, am sick of seeing the trailer behind EVERYTHING I've seen the past six months, but the theaters want this to play for WEEKS so they can start making money, too, so it's understandable. Seriously, I have no real expectations for this to be anything special, so I'm just going to see the stuff blow up. I mean, at the end of the day, it will always be Michael Bay directing a TV commercial for something, even if it is a really long commercial. No one has ever given a better illustration of how studios now annoint directors that can capture Americans' attention in thirty-second Super Bowl ads. He's just William Castle with a budget (though I really, really like William Castle).
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May 16, 2001 6:16:28 AM CDT
Maybe I'll RENT this one... Nah - wait for cable (~5months-Tops!
by xfonhe
I'm getting so very tired of trite, one-dimensional, sappy bullshit Hollywood drivel. All FX and no plot, or acting, or character development -at least, outside of: "I'm a 1D badguy" "I'm a 1D good guy" "I'm the love interest". For *#&$ sakes, do they think we're ALL twelve years old? When I first saw the trailer I thought "oooh, that's going to be good!". Then I saw who was producing/directing it. I will NOT waste my money on any more sappy regurgitated brain-dead SoCal shit.
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So let me get this straight, according to Pearl Harbour the America's won the Battle of Britain? How? History, if it don't fit, change it. Stalin would be proud of Hollywood. What next, US Marines win the Battle of Waterloo?
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I wanted to post a comment on a topic recently, but discovered I had been banned. My world crumbled beneath me, but I was hit with the stark realization that I had been given the beating I richly deserved. I apologize to Harry, Moriarty, and everyone else at AICN for my coarse language, my ad hominem attacks, and my invocation of the baseless claim that Scooby Doo "will rock." I...I am filled with shame. But mostly I apologize to you, the viewer. My actions cannot be condoned, but if you see it in your hearts to let me back into the community, I promise to abide by the following pledge: "I hereby vow not to post blatant abuse, personal attacks, off-topic BS (except for this post), cross posting, blatant advertising, or hate speech. I also vow never, NEVER to be That Guy and crow about being first. Or post a message containing the words 'ALL YOUR BASE BELONG TO US'. Or use the forum to plug my frail website. Or disrespect Sam Raimi for no reason whatsoever. Or call Brian DePalma a hack without basis. I promise never to use my connections to the film industry to plant any diabetically-sweet reviews of movies that suck, which is an unforgiveable attack on the integrity of this website, a breach of social mores, and a violation of several sections of the Geneva Convention. And while I may disagree with Harry on certain points of view or reviews, I will not resort to ad hominem attacks to make my point. I will no longer be That Guy. I swear, by thee I forswear." Please, won't you help a lonely sheep find its way back into the fold? I look forward to working with each of you in a civilized manner.
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I wonder whether Bruckheimer and cos next project will be Hiroshima (you can just see the treatment, an explosive love story set during America's greatest hour)
Vietnam is the only area where Hollywood is able to engage in any self criticism - in fact they've done it so much that any impact of this has been diluted long ago. Even then it is an American tragedy (Deer Hunter)rather than a Vietneamese one and it is always the fault of the dark powers that be in Washington (Oliver Stone) or some psychotic (Platoon) - never the protaganist who is always some peacenik observer caught up in events rather than a perpetrator (Full Metal Jacket)
U571, Pearl Harbour, Patriot (especially the Patriot!) etc etc all show Hollywoods inability to tackle the issue of war without relying on the lowest common denominator namely, a crappy love story or an inprobable superman like hero. Even Saving Private Ryan let itself down by descending into corny characterisations - not least Private Ryan himslef.
The only film that delivers is The Thin Red Line - despite having completely pretentious dialogue it focuse exclusively on the impact of battle both on men's psyches and the environment.
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When a movie like this comes around, the role of a geek is not to simply whine and critique from inside their little circles. You must go to see this movie, preferably when it will be most crowded, and heckle - heckle and jeer and laugh from start to finish. You may be the only one who understands that the movie is funny, or that your own jokes are funny, but you could compensate by bringing one or two friends and placing them strategically around the audience. *** I used this tactic to great effect with Titanic. I had initially refused to see it, on the grounds that I'd re-enact the eyeball slicing scene from UN CHIEN ANDALOU with a plastic straw. However, it proved to be a thoroughly pleasant experience, most notably when Weasel Boy (tm) died. Some head-trauma and twinkie case in the front row suddenly gasped out "I think Jack's dead!", which was my cue for ten minutes of crow-like guffawing. *** So don't sit still when a guy like Bay wipes his shit on your local screen; pay your $10, and get $100 of entertainment!
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May 16, 2001 7:03:28 AM CDT
Isn't it weird how DVD seems to be becoming a 'second chance' fo
by vondoom
Don't know whether this is good
or bad? With all the $ being
spent, shouldn't the best version
be ready upon release? But
if the cleaned up versions are
better maybe it IS the right
thing to do...will have to wait
til I can catch Apoc Redux this
summer.
Pearl Harbor, don't care, may
see it on...DVD. -
Been partying with the extras from LOTR?
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Anything with Jerry Bruckheimer sucks. Armageddon was just plain awful. "Space Madness". Come on. I saw the trailer for PH and they had the voice over of the famous FDR speech, but they changed the cadence, which should have been "a day that will live (pause) in infamy". It's almost an insult to anyone who lived through it and anyone educated enough to have heard the speech before. You can have "Pearl Harbor", give me "Tora, Tora, Tora", a great film and even more amazing because it was done before computer generated FX.
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May 16, 2001 7:33:38 AM CDT
These "Bay sucks," "America sucks with their propoganda" talkbac
by twig
Do you people even read what you post? You sound like maniacs. Boo-FUCKING-hoo if the film is from an American perspective. You want the Japanese perspective? Then go to Japan and make the great film you're so sure you could make better than Bay and Bruckheimer. Oh, and you'll all see the film and you know you will. So shut the fuck up and stop being such pathetic whiners
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Key Grip gave us a wonderful, poignant, heartfelt and very grown-up admission of guilt, personal shortcomings, and sincere regret for past childish, selfish, rude, and socially unacceptable behavior, and here we ignore his (I assume you're a guy) pain while we natter on and on about some stupid movie about some small part of American history! Where is the love in this talkback? Where are the caring, forgiving geeks, willing to pull together to welcome one of our own back into the fold (I assume that, when referring to yourself as a sheep, you were speaking metaphorically)? I think we all owe our li'l pal to extend the Big White Clown Glove Hand of Forgiveness. Come on now...take those hands out of those pockets and..that's right, form a circle...okay now cover your wallets and let's see that big AICN Group Hug...Ahhhh...
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One of the best trailers I've ever seen. Beautiful cinemetography, perfect music, and the way the narration works with the music to build the feel is great. How is it that so many movies can have great trailers, and then suck so bad? Granted, I don't know if PH sucks of course, but evidently it's not going to be as good as the trailer.
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This is so very easy... America had been sending Britain and China with arms and supplies years before Pearl Harbour, not to mention sending military advisors to both nations. The Japanese attacked because America pushed them into a corner - if left alone, America would have supplied the Allies to victory without risking more than a handful of advisory personnel. Japan had no choice but to *try* an attack, or risk being buried under a mountain of industry being shipped from a nation a few dozen times its size. They knew full-well they wouldn't be able to invade; their intent was to scare the Americans, and force a peace treaty. --- As for "Evolution", it doesn't look promising - low-grade humour and bad casting for starters. LOTR, however, will be brilliant; I have always maintained that. You probably got your assumptions from the same "Catalogue of Ignorance" as your "historical facts". --- Radix malorum est cupiditas; which goes double for feeble trolls who get caught out of their league.
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May 16, 2001 9:00:36 AM CDT
Typo - would remove "with" from first line, if forum allowed edi
by the pardoner
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...this is only my opinion (but I hope there are some intelligent people who share my view). Michael Bay is a freakin' sorry excuse for a director. I'm not saying I could do better, but I certainly would not shoot my movies as if I came straight outta Music Videos and do a fucking 360 degree camera rotation around the main character to make the movie look "cool." God, it's like the man doesn't have any other filming techniques in his directorial repetoire....Bay is the kind of sperm that inspires bad wannabe-film students sitting in Famous Players Megaplexes who masturbate to eye-candy...
If you disagree and want to tell me so, e-mail me at: saint7@canada.com
BTW, this is my first post here at AICN and I'm already jaded...^_^
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Seriously though. I would prefer just about any other director get their hands on this projuectthan Bay. The man is a cancer. He has absolutely no sense of restraint. Hell...I'd rather see Spike Lee thrown in the director's chair than Bay. Then at least we could see one of those signature gliding shots with FDR going down a hall or something. I am truly afraid of this movie. Don't get me wrong....I am proud to be an American and always will be, and this crap about jingoism and the like is being spouted by people have absolutley no idea what our fathers did for us in securing our freedom. What I can't STAND is Bay's exploitation or our national pride and sense of accomplishment as Americans. He touched on it in Crapaggedon. And if he stays true to form...watch out. There will not be a single early to late 40's war movie cliche unturned. I'll go see this one...armed with a vomit bag, an American flag, my "I voted for G.W." pin, and my lovely wife for emotional counseling afterwards. And thank God for G.W. Bush!...Sorry had to throw that in there
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Seriously though. I would prefer just about any other director get their hands on this projuectthan Bay. The man is a cancer. He has absolutely no sense of restraint. Hell...I'd rather see Spike Lee thrown in the director's chair than Bay. Then at least we could see one of those signature gliding shots with FDR going down a hall or something. I am truly afraid of this movie. Don't get me wrong....I am proud to be an American and always will be, and this crap about jingoism and the like is being spouted by people have absolutley no idea what our fathers did for us in securing our freedom. What I can't STAND is Bay's exploitation or our national pride and sense of accomplishment as Americans. He touched on it in Crapaggedon. And if he stays true to form...watch out. There will not be a single early to late 40's war movie cliche unturned. I'll go see this one...armed with a vomit bag, an American flag, my "I voted for G.W." pin, and my lovely wife for emotional counseling afterwards. And thank God for G.W. Bush!...Sorry had to throw that in there
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I was really hoping, but alas... the evidence is now beyond dispute. Pearl Harbor is gonna suck. Goddammit, the trailer looks great. If they wanted to do a love story, why hire the director of Armageddon?... one of the biggest pieces of shit in the history of filmmaking. The "emotions" in Armageddon are a total joke - just pathetic. Why not hire a good director?... someone who can capture great performances tell a real story. Armageddon should have disqualified Bay. Did I mention.... "Goddammit!"
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I hope this fucking movie will bomb in every way possible. I just hate it so very much.Peace out.
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He's a Canadian to boot! Is a Canadian allowed an opinion on American history and our role in the world? To infer that we backed Japan into a corner and left them without a choice is absolutley ridiculous. The empire of Japan was the aggressor in that conflict. Plain and simple. Please take some time to read actual history sometime and not rely on what the pinko teachers in Canada are spouting. HAHAHAHA
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I plan on seeing the movie. I am dying for another "Americans are great, everyone else is evil and stupid!" movie to rip on. However, if anyone wants to know the real story, look up Dr. Donald Goldstein on the net. He's the #1 world expert on the subject, and the author of the main book used for the movie. Frankly, as his former student, I can tell you his lectures are a lot more interesting than the film probably is.
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I plan on seeing the movie. I am dying for another "Americans are great, everyone else is evil and stupid!" movie to rip on. However, if anyone wants to know the real story, look up Dr. Donald Goldstein on the net. He's the #1 world expert on the subject, and the author of the main book used for the movie. Frankly, as his former student, I can tell you his lectures are a lot more interesting than the film probably is.
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Bad Boys was a fun action movie but The Rock and Armageddon were just plain God-awful. They were so bad that they were laughable! At least with this one, it looks like Bay's finally got a tri-pod for his freakin' camera so it doesn't look like NYPD Blue in a tornado. With any luck, he won't cut away every 2 freakin' seconds either so I won't have to take my Dramamine to keep from barfing in the theatre. After Titanic, I'm very skeptical. If he can pull off the love story, more power to him. But it seems like a very thin excuse to make a short story long and to give some kind of meaningful backstory to the attack.
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May 16, 2001 10:17:09 AM CDT
Anyone find Ben Affleck's southern accent bad - almost Keanu Ree
by fatal discharge
Just got that impression from a small clip on Entertainment Tonight. As for Pearl Harbor, the need to film it was obviously that they wanted a film where things blow up real big rather than as any historical record. What's irritating though is to mask a film about a depressing, disastrous sneak attack low-point in American history and market it as a "heroic" episode in the war. Although there were no doubt small acts of heroism in the slaughter, the overall incident was not heroic. Just like bombing innocent civilians in Hiroshima and especially Nagasaki, when the horror of the first nuclear bombing was known, is not heroic either.
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First of all I think this guy just like to over analyze just about anything. After reading his ramblings, I came to the conclusion that he didn't like the movie. Ok, then just say that, you don't need to go on and on about some obscure reference might make you sound like you know what your talking about. I saw Pearl Harbor the other day and I'm not saying it's the greatest movie ever. It's a huge summer blockbuster, that has been so over-marketed to a public who will then be disappointed by anything less than perfection. This is a movie made for a mass audience, and when that happens things are lost. It's also based on historical events, that needed to be followed to some degree. Yeah, the action is bookended and it could have been edited better, but what film couldn't. If you're just going to go to the movie and look for the problems then you'll miss all the great things. It's a movie, sit back and watch it for what it is, not what it should be in your whacked out mind. Oh, and talking about the sound in SDDS, DTS, etc - now I think your really smart, cause you can use the CAPS button on your keyboard.
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Wow, it took you a whole 30 minutes to resort to calling me names. Congratulations on your concession of ignobility and intellectual inadequacy - not to me, but to this entire forum, and to the whole of human discourse. --- Yes, I am Canadian... WFCall's brilliant deduction consisted of looking at my email address, and realising that Toronto is in Canada. Being Canadian, I am afforded what is often referred to as a "different perspective". The difference is that Canadians had absolutely no stake in the Pacific theatre, and as such, have relatively less colour to their eyes when viewing the situation. --- Funny thing about cereal boxes, if you read the ingredients, you find out what's actually inside. So thank you for your kind acknowledgement - my take on PH is indeed solidly factual. Next time, pick a better metaphor to go after. Talking of which, your little obsession with "shedding blood"... what is it that a creature sheds? - that which it no longer needs, and should be got rid of. Only an American would try to avoid a necessity (shedding) to keep something useless (American blood). --- As for literature, when you can grasp your own symbolism, come and try again. --- Radix malorum est cupiditas.
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Well this really does sound like a craptacular shitfest of ludicrous proportions. I think this movie is going to lose a lot of money. I think there are going to be repo men at Big Jerry's door. I think Ol' Popsicle Pop Walt himself will emerge from his state of living death so that he can personally take a piece of Rebar to Michael Bay's knees. Like 'Gone in 60 Seconds', this promises a whole lot of time spent on plot and character development. That can be a good thing, if the plot is complex and the characters are interesting. However, 'Pearl Harbour' will have a cast of tired cutouts and, for all the time spent introducing them, we still won't be able to tell any of the supporting characters apart or identify their place within the action. The story itself will be a threadbare contrivance full of holes and extraneous dead ends. Again, thin storytelling and superficial characters can be okay if the movie moves and doesn't ask to be taken at all seriously. But as in GI60S we have to spend 90 or 100 minutes not giving a damn. Of course, there will be a scene in a locker room featuring lots of young men with hairless chests and American flags wrapped around their waists. As for the action sequences, they'll be loud and chaotic and they won't make a whole lot of sense. Lots of explosions, lots of people shouting over intercoms, someone just might cry for his mother. A guaranteed culluloid headache! And yes, I will see it, probably opening day, but I'll hate myself for it. And 'Full Metal Jacket' is not US propaganda. It's hardly a war film at all, certainly not an anti war film; it's more of a horror fantasy film, a counterpiece to 'Clockwork Orange' in which young men are 'cleansed' of conventional mores and set loose in a strange place to indulge in their darkest impulses. Joker is not a peacenik protagonist. He is for most of the film a witness rather than actor; his most dynamic moments come when he beats Pyle and when he kills the sniper. And 'Titanic' isn't the worst piece of history on film in recent years, 'The Patriot' is. God, that thing was the most offensive action movie since 'Rambo'.
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American intelligence knew they were going to be attacked but they did not warn the dudes down in PH. American kids would get killed, then the American public would get mad so that they would be sucked into the WWII. That is how it worked. Any ways, I have deep respect for USA. I think her most noble contribution to human civilization was dropping the Atomic bomb on Hiroshima, even though the Japanese were ready to surrender. America just had to see the destructive power of the bomb first hand. Ohh I am sorry another bright and proud moment for American patriots like your self ;burning Vietnamese villages with Napalm Bombs, or shooting down the Iranian Air plane with hundreds of women and kids on board, Yes baby, America is a great nation and has contribute immensely to peace and humanity. Peace out.
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If you have bookends, you didn't do your job as a storyteller, or you think your audience is stupid. Examples: Saving Private Ryan, The Green Mile...an apparently, Pearl Harbor. Give your audience a chance!
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Don't you all just hate the fact that this movie is probably going to make a bajillion dollars no matter how cliched and recycled it is? Footnote: my local ABC affiliate news recently aired "Remembering Pearl Harbor" segments. Since Pearl Harbor Day is December 7th, isn't it a bit, well, LEECHING OFF OF THE BODIES OF DEAD SERVICEMEN for a Disney-owned station to suddenly give a shit about Pearl Harbor when one of their sister companies is about to release a big-budget movie based on said event? I knew Disney was clueless. I guess it was naive of me to have forgotten that they're heartless too.
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...these talkbacks are as predictable is this movie. Perhaps we're about as creative as Bruckheimer after all.
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...these talkbacks are as predictable as this movie. Perhaps we're about as creative as Bruckheimer after all.
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Ahhh... I knew this moment would befall us. It seems that Mr. Bay has cranked out yet another smelly clich
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May 16, 2001 11:05:12 AM CDT
"there WERE so many" -- and BOYCOTT THIS FILM NOT FOR POLITICS,
by jrcash
Sorry. Had to be the grammar fascist.
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May 16, 2001 11:14:54 AM CDT
"Titanic was called the ship of dreams, and it was, it really wa
by kyle.reese
Loved that movie.
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May 16, 2001 11:17:27 AM CDT
What is "sad" about having standards for portraying an important
by superninja
Tacking on the love triangle was a big warning flag for me. They could've included a romance in a more subtle way, but then, Bruckheimer/Bay are never one for subtleties are they?
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May 16, 2001 11:35:52 AM CDT
I'm a Pinko, You're a Pinko, Wouldn't you like to be a pinko too
by billy talent
McCarthy was right! If I were a Yank, I'd break out the grain alcohol and rain water, cause us diabolical Canadian Pinkos have been messing with your precious bodily fluids. Ever wonder why you're so fat and stupid? That's right, Blame Canada! James 'I Hate Capitalism' Cameron, Jim 'I Love Joseph Stalin' Carrey, Celine 'Bread and Cabbage' Dion and even Anne 'Comrade Bitch' Murray are all a part of the insidious conspiracy. Our teachers, who are paid in vodka, brainwash us with anti-American invective. 'Saturday Night Live'(An anagram of 'Evil Saturday Thing) and 'Austin Powers' are the most powerful propaganda tools we've ever devised. If, during the physical act of love, you should ever feel a loss of essence, that's Michael J. Fox's doing. Down With Freedom!
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May 16, 2001 12:03:14 PM CDT
Okay everyone, settle down and take a deep breath. Now, don't yo
by mel garga
Why does Ben Asslick continue to get work? Don't you people remember having to watch the PBS miniseries "The Voyage of the Mimi" in 7th grade? He was in that. Fucking torture! And Logansan, if it weren't for the US and her noble efforts in WWII, your dumbass would probably be speaking German right now. Spare us the superior foreigner bit. We must have something to offer since you're the one hanging out on an American site. (mostly American anyway) And if you want to see a real movie, check out Smiling Fish & Goat on Fire. It has been out for a while but it finally came to a local theater here that specializes in independents. Go and support the $40,000 movies.
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Why does your profession dictate where you fall on the political spectrum? Being on the left wing is not a requirement for being an artist. Just admit that you want to take a side and quit dancing around. You say, "I guess [being an artist] puts me on the left. You guess? If you prefer less government and less taxes, go republican. You're so concerned about insulting people. Where does the term bible beater fall on your list? From your educated deduction, republicans are all religious. Many Jews are democrats. Do you ever hear the right refer to them as torah beaters? No. You also described yourself as not being too into history. Well, for having made that claim, you write a lot of shit about your distorted view of things. Any further coments or questions should be sent to my e-mail address to avoid taking up further space on a movie web site.
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There doesn't really seem to be any poing arguing about the artistic qualities of this movie, or lack thereof, since most people's minds seem made up. However, it's disturbing to see a lack of historical understanding by some people here, particularly "Pardoner."
What actually happened? The U.S. had indeed been supplying Britain with war materiel for years prior to entering the war, but had more or less neglected the Japanese invasion of China, just making vague promises to Chiang about eventual military support (only real help had in China was from Claire Chennault and the Flying Tigers, which was independent of the U.S. military). They also laid an embargo on the Japanese in regard to certain raw materials, but that was too little, too late. Japan did indeed act as an aggressor, and was not "backed into a corner." Japanese plans for a Pacific empire included islands and territories held by many European colonial powers as well as the United States. There was an awareness that taking U.S. holdings would propel the Americans into the war. Thus, Pearl Harbor was a first strike measure intended to destroy the American fleet, and buy time for the Japanese to consolidate their position in the Pacific so that they might be able to negotiate a peace with the Americans. Pearl Harbor was part of a three-pronged attack that included another pre-emptive assault on the Americans in the Philippines, as well as destroying the two British warships in the South Pacific. According to the Japanese plan, by the time the Americans were fully mobilized to counter-attack, Japanese strength would be such that it could enact a stalemate. The attack on the American Navy was purely and simply an attempt to win a war before it even started. Also significant is the popular controversy regarding possible foreknowledge of FDR about the attack. The general historical consensus at this time is that FDR knew that there would be a sneak attack, but all indicators pointed to it happening at the base in the Philippines (where it occurred the following day). So there was knowledge of an attack, but the site was a total surprise.
Finally, what were the results? Japan was more or less surprised at the American outrage to the attack, devastated by its inability to catch American aircraft carriers in the harbor, and caught off-guard by the speed at which American forces were ready for combat. It was a mistake, but it was a mistake made by the AGGRESSOR.
:) Anyway, I think I'll get down off my soapbox now. Sorry for the preaching. -
Oops, forgot to mention this. I'm not familiar with the historian mentioned above, but the generally acknowledged expert on the Pacific War is Gordon Prange, whose work "At Dawn We Slept" is still the standard text on Pearl Harbor for many WWII courses.
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I just knew that it would be impossible for Bay to make any film about a serious subject without resorting to dreamy shit parachute room love scenes and jerk off 'homage'. Why doesn't he just stick to what he's best at - fantasy slow-mo action - at least then you know what your paying for. A load of dead bodies drifting with the American flag is the most cringe inducing vision since Mel Gibson came riding up with a newly patched flag in 'The Patriot' - jees, thinking about it, that takes some beating in the shite stakes.
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Heh heh, just kidding. =) I still haul that word out from time to time, just like how "Groovy!" kind of wormed its way back into my vocabulary recently - very scary. --- Love that story - black people ROCK! I should, however make it very clear that I do not consider anyone who is a member of the "gangsta" culture a human being, be they of African, European or Asian descent. --- Anyway, my plan was not so much actively disrupting the movie, but mainly laughing at the more blatant bits of Bay-crap, and occasionally letting out an "Awww geez". The trick is to do just enough to turn the termperment of the audience from awed to mocking, rather than ruining the movie for them. We're in it for enlightenment, baby! =)
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May 16, 2001 1:12:13 PM CDT
Hate to get in the middle of a really nice flame war, but..
by stompin tom
Pardoner, Canada had no stake in the Pacific theater? Tell that to the brave veterans of the Winnipeg Grenadiers and the Royal Rifles of Canada, who had the ignoble task of helping out the British in Hong Kong during the fall of that city on the very day that the attack on Pearl Harbor occurred. Many stayed in China and Japan as POWs until after the war ended in '45, working in forced labor (or should I say, labour) camps. Canada also threw over 80,000 soldiers and 60 ships into the Pacific theater by war's end.
I don't blame anyone in this forum for being defensive about their opinions of the war, as it is bound to stir a lot of emotion, patriotism, and different interpretations of the events. What is history but a subjective retelling of facts? But before you start waving your factual impeccability banner around as your standard, make sure you at least have all your bases covered. -
man, your first post was right on target. I salute you.
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May 16, 2001 1:27:07 PM CDT
"I can almost see the statue of liberty from here... Very small,
by kyle.reese
"I'M THE KING OF THE WORLD!!!! WOO-HOO!"
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In general, I agree with your attitude that America did not fight that war all by itself. But be careful that you don't swing too far the other way, either. It was clearly a group effort, and in the same way that the British and Russians needed and depended upon American aid, the Americans needed the contribution and teamwork of the British and Russians. However, don't be too extreme--the Americans were necessary for an Allied victory. The European nations had not "held the line." All of the Western portion of the continent was under the thumb of the Nazis, Stalin was considering negotiating a separate peace, and Britain only survived because it won the air war over London. If Russia had come to terms, the full force of the Nazis would have been turned toward Britain, which most likely could not have survived a total cross-Channel invasion. Similarly, while British forces were important in the Pacific, THAT theater was almost fully the burden of the American military. Most of Europe, as you pointed out, was busy rebuilding and left the Japanese to the Americans. So while I applaud your more sensitive attitude to the war, be careful that you don't take away some of the credit that the U.S. deserves.
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When all of Europe (inc. good ol' France) were overrun by those damned Nazis (how I hate them all), Britain stood their ground. It's a pretty amazing feat when you consider it's such a small island. I reckon a Battle of Britian film would be interesting, although it's never gonna happen since the British film industry are stupid (they'd rather make an epic movie about Russia in WW2).
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...one would think this is a documentary.
I think using bad movies as a basis for historical argument is a waste of time. Then again, everything I ever wanted to know about war I learned from reading Wilfred Owen.
Let's be realistic. The best "Pearl Harbor" could have hoped for was to be entertaining. I'd bet dollars to donuts this one was in the works two weeks after "Saving Private Ryan" opened big.
Whether or not you find it entertaining depends on if you are looking to a movie for something worthwhile or just for loud noises, decent effects and straight cheddar tugs at the heartstrings.
Personally, for the former I'll pay $8.50, for the latter I'll wait for cable. "Pearl Harbor" will only be seen by me on the small screen.
That's just an opinion. -
And it is not if this film is gonna be rather jingoistic or if it is gonna be any good or not. I think the general view held by many here is that a film with this kind of subject matter should under no circumstance be given to film makers such as Bay and Bruckheimer. Can we agree on this at the very least? I want this film to do badly or at the very least not perform as well as hoped. Not because I have real problem with Bay as a director, other than his rather annoying habit of confusing success with talent as one talkbacker put it. But he represents the very real malise that seems to be rageing in Hollywood today. Name a big Blockbuster made in the last ten years that could be deemed as a 'Classic' (other than Titanic 'cos you either hate that film or love it. I personally loved it). Maybe its my age or something but it seems that every year I'm more and more activly looking for those little independent film maker gems that come out. These are the kind of films now that seem to get my juices flowing so to speak. I still look forward to Summer and the studio big guns being unleashed on us, but I gave up trying to find anything other than brainless entertainment from them a long time ago. Pearl Harbor I suspect is gonna make 75% of its total gross in the first two weeks then get blown of of the water by the likes of Shrek amongest others. The big blockbuster concept should be give a years holiday and come back refreshed, recharged and ready to thrill us again. It makes me weep just thinking what kind of film Pearl Harbor could have been if the likes of Coppalla, Stone or even Zamekis had been asked to do it. We certainly wouldn't get what seems to be a very cobbled together affair sticking in bits of Titanic, Ryan and the like in order to appeal to the widest audience but only fiding the lowest common denominater. But thats just my view....
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Change picture, please.
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I have noticed that a lot of people ask others and me for hard, rock solid evidence for statements such as
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I can just imagine the load of crap that these guys fed to the movie company. "Hey! I've got an idea, lets recreate the Pearl Harbor attack, only...lets make it into Titanic. We'll get trendy actors to make little teenage girls go, and we'll have disney make it..." What happened, was the casts of "Friends" not available, so you had to settle for Ben Affleck?I believe that the movie should have been made the way it was meant to. When are these F**kin jackoffs going to learn that the love story of Titanic..ONLY WORKED FOR TITANIC!! The only way this love story garbage could have worked is if Ben Affiction fell in love with a Japanese servant in Hawaii...Pearl Harbour was attacked, and she was placed in an internment camp...Affleck is now torn between his duty to his country and his love for the girl. Enemy at the titanic...I mean..Enema at the gates was the same f'n way. Let's tell a story of 2 snipers, and make it a love story...F the love story....F the hollywood treatment of history...and F the dickweeds that made this movie...I'm going to be rooting for the Japanese in this one....hate the love story.
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One day I was watching some random network news station. There was a two second blurb about how a sunken Japanese submarine was found that may be proof that America struck the first blow in the conflict. Now, I'm not necessarily gonna say that this is true, but it was the network news. By rule, any reporting of news with the slightest possiblilty of subversive interpretation is bottled up (you know, bad ratings). Another point... the U.S. Government wanted in the war badly... but the American public was by in large against it... that all changed with Pearl Harbor.
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Well, first things first. I posted a scintillating critique of the movie under the Pearl Harbor Trailer title. Since I don't believe in cross-posting, go find it if you want. Hmm, Jesus, that's "Hay-sooos," right? I think I'm gonna end up agreeing with the Pardoner. Heckling is cool as hell, provided that you're at the Rocky Horror Picture Show. Personally, I would *love* to see _Pearl Harbor_ and shout things at the screen. (I did love your bit about having strategically-posted cohorts.) Thing is, most Americans are stupid and will like this movie. So I'd hate to be a bastard, ruining their $10 flick. That being said, there's a big "but" coming. Here it is: Next time you want to heckle at the cheap/$1.50 theatre, Pardoner, give me a call. That would be kicking ass. Anyone who gets pissed at the hecklers could see the movie heckle-free for only a buck and a half later. Until then, I'd have to restrain the inner Statler and Waldorf and not heckle.
Btw, I wonder how many shots of the Japanese concentration, er, "internment," camps there will be. Any takers? -
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Saint7, you said "I certainly would not shoot my movies as if I came straight outta Music Videos and do a fucking 360 degree camera rotation around the main character to make the movie look 'cool.'"--------Martin Scorsese did it in 'The Color of Money' around Newman and it was brilliant. Not that I'm defending Bay, but you could've cited a better example.
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You had family at Peleliu? Have you read E. B. Sledge's "With the Old Breed at Okinawa and Peleliu"? It's a personal account of a Marine private's experiences at both of those campaigns. It's very personal, very real, and one of the best WWII books out there. Familiar with it?
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May 16, 2001 8:25:40 PM CDT
Pearl Harbor - The Movie / Bay / Pinkos / Canadians and who is r
by briansla
I am a Michael Bay fan, yeah thats right I liked / loved The Rock and Armageddon ( I even have both Criterion collection DVDs )... but if Pettifrog & others are expecting truth / history / reality in a Michael Bay flick you are seriously smoking something. Bay flicks are just light, wam bam thank you ma'am popcorn flicks for the masses. History it ain't. I have serious fear that the masses will actually believe this flick. Get it thru your heads people ... it is Titanic with guns. A love triangle story w/ PH in the backround. Its a blockbuster whose sole existance is to entertain and get your money. If you want history, READ A BOOK. As for PINKOS, they are dead. We killed them when we won the Cold War. They are mostly ultra-nutcase capitalists and gangsters. I'd rather the pinkos. For the people bashing the Canadians... they have most of their facts right. Not all and not to the extreme they said. No Japan wasn't going to surrender. No FDR didn't start WW2 for the Military Industrial Complex... I had hoped those conspiracy theories died with the cold war. Yes American intel did have all the signs that an attack was imminent but they didn't put it together in time & they have bad communication. It is great to see the extremes of right wing Pettifrogs and the leftwing Canadians.... IT'S A MICHAEL BAY MOVIE !!!!! If you want a history movie watch TORA TORA TORA. It is supposedly the definite PH movie ( as declared by the PH Survivors association).
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AMEEEEEEEEERICA! AMEEEERICA!
DAA,DAA,DAA,DAA,DAA,DEEEE
BAM!BAM!BAM!BAM! -
in so many different and perplexing ways it is fascinating (note: I am calling no one an idiot). Nor am I doubting anybody's knowledge of events, what I am amazed at is the inability of most people in this forum to try to look at events through the eyes of the people who actually witnessed and were a part of them.
Guess what.. the world has changed alot in the last 60 years, so don't try to rethink and re-examinethe events leading up to the invasion on Pearl Harbor from your 21st century over educated under experienced points of view. History is a series of events going back to the dawn of time, each of which have an effect on one another. Japan did not one day decide to bomb pearl harbor because it was there. It was a planned, premediatated attack with the intent to draw a country into a war which they thought was not ready and not will willing to fight. Guess what... they were wrong and boy did they pay the price.
also, please don't try to say that America wound up being just as evil as the Japanese (our soldiers weren't the ones throwing babies into the air and catchoing them on a bayonet.
Did we kill civilians? yes. So did everybody it was a horrible fact of war in the middle part of the last century: weapons became excedingly powerful, yet still lacked technical sophistication, during raids civilian casultees were the rule not the exception. I am not condoning what happened, it's just how things were. As for the Atomic bomb, the age it ushered in was frightening, but tell that to the leaders of a battle worn nation whose population wants the war to end. hindight is twenty twenty, the most fucked up thing is that the bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima probably saved more lives than it took. -
May 18, 2001 12:59:38 AM CDT
i'm convinced that Bruckheimer & Bay are incapable of making a s
by mooncake
after seeing some of their previous masterpieces like Armageddon we really know what to expect from this dynamic duo. if you people really want to see a decent WW2 movie wait for john woo's WINDTALKERS istead.
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