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HARRY'S FIRST IMPRESSIONS ADDED!! What You've Been Waiting For! LORD OF THE RINGS Footage Screened!
SPOILER ALERT !!
Hey, everyone. "Moriarty" here with some Rumblings From The Lab.
We'd have better luck if we were using pigeons, it seems like...
First I get an e-mail from Harry with half a report that looks like it was typed during an epileptic seizure. Then I get a call from France that sounds like someone's got him stuffed in the trunk of a car. He says he wants to dictate the second half of his report to me. So I grab a tape recorder and ask him to speak slowly and clearly.
First there's the report he sent me:
Hey there, HARRY here... Again, I'm stuck on this blasted Web TV hell thing, so the report will be quite shorter or even less longer than I WOULD have liked.
Ok.... So I wake up as the sun starts popping into my window and I'm like... UGH... SUNLIGHT... HISSS hISSSS...
But then I think.... LORD OF THE RINGS FOOTAGE!!!! And my eyes begin increasing into the size of QUINT's squanching device... and equally protruding.
I get dressed in a nice two piece bikini... and decide to head out into CANNES.
THere is this taxi waiting on me, and I pop in. The guy looks at me as though I'm a fat ignorant American... he says something like with 2000 vowels, and I say "OUI" That was a not so bad Men's Magazine ya know?
Anyway... A bit later I arrive at the OLYMPIA theater... Currently among my most favorite theaters in existence! WHy?? Well, that's where the footage was plus.... A SECRET MOVIE I saw tonight with Dr Sotha... Sotha gave me.... OH wait, that's later....
Anyway, I enter the theater... No checking people people, so I just wander on into OLYMPIA 2 screening room. I'm FIRST!!!
Yup, I"m thaat guy.... The first guy in the room.... The jokerr that throws the curve off... The creep that takes the first seat... BUT THIS WAS LORD OF THE FRIGGING RINGS!!!! Where were the other guys?? Where was ONERING and FANDOM and those pirates from Holland? Aren't they supposed to be huger more bigger more enormous LOTR geeks than me?
Ok, they are... they just had to train in from NICE to get here, And I just had to steal a taxi... MUhahahahahaha
Well, I SIt there... thinking... "They could like go ahead and screen it now.... Like right now.... Like please show me the damn footage like now!" BUT noone seemed to be listening to my thoughts... SIGH.... Instead I watched a French dude hook up speakerrs and microphones... SEE? Those other sites missed thaat detail!!!!
Ok, so then Calisuri and Joram show up... THEY have this HOLY MISSION FROM GOD look in their eyes.. This, MAGI thing... Me, I'm all cool sex stud man.... Waiting for the butterflies... Whatever that means...
Ok, So then the place begins filling up with "THE INTERNATIONAL PRESS". Japan, Norway, Germany, England, Taiwan, Pluto, Zimbabwe, Mexico and Planet X... I was in the middle of a multicultural mixing pot.... If everyone shared DNA here... We would probably end up with a Michael Jackson.... It was that diverse.
Anyways... As everyone got settled, WE, THE ONLINE CONTINGENT, sat 3rd ROW center and awaited... THE SECOND COMING...
Off to the side I see Bob Shaye, Peter Jackson and Barrie Osborne all sitting there... Peter is... in Peter GARB (Read my THERE AND BACK AGAIN reports for better description)
Joram on my left and Calisuri on my right begin vibrating.... Shaye takes the mike... DOES The... Don't review this as it isn't finished sort of rap... Peter takes over and gives us a bit of a structure.
NOW... You've probably heard a description of the footage so far.... what scenes were shown... That sort of thing, BUT folks... I'm here to talk about EMOTIONAL DAMAGE that the footage caused.
During the MINES OF MORIA sequence... Joram was exclaiming, "OH SHIT.... FUCK ME..... NO WAY.... AWWWESOME.... OHMYGOD" Now I don't know if his concious brain was aware of this or not, but his jaw was firmly between his ankles and full on ready for John Holmes.
Meanwhile, Calisuri was on my right with eyes like Jim Carrey's when he was doing the WOLF THING overr Cameron Diaz.
Me... I kept my mouth shut, my eyes open... and oh man. You just don't understand.
First, the CAVE TROLL... Sure... It's CG... But not like MUMMY RETURNS CG... THIS is that grade way better than that. AND... The dang creature is ACTING. He's taking a look at his environment... He gets a hurt reaction when shot with a Legolas arrow... (End part one)
Then there's the stuff I attempted to transcribe. Believe it or not, he really does dictate complete with ellipses and words capitalized. Any and all insanity in these paragraphs is entirely his fault, even in the places in parentheses where I've been unable to decipher his excited ranting:
When he kills something, or thinks he's killed something, his face does that "Bruce Lee in ENTER THE DRAGON face contort in anguish and sorrow over the death he's just caused" look. This is because of Randy Cook, the stop motion guy from GHOSTBUSTERS and CAVEMAN, a genuine uber-fan God a la Ray Harryhausen. This creature was... EXTRAORDINARY... and will hitherfore be known as THE ANNOINTED ONE for the way he performed in this sequence. WAY cool.
Okay... the Fellowship is beheading Orcs over here and over there. Cave Troll? Kicking ass. By the way, Cave Troll is exactly King Kong 1933 scale, so imagine trying to kill King Kong with arrows and swords.
OH! OH! OH! OH! OH! OH! Let me tell you about STING! Sting glows!! Sting is like glowing in this really cool way. It glows!
Oh, sorry. Okay. So the Fellowship has cleared this whole area, and it gets to them being surrounded by 100 (sounds like goblins)... NOT ORCS... sheesh, these people... they're like Orcs with bigger eyes, exactly as I was describing two years ago. Really, really sweet looking.
This sequence was still temp effects, and some of the motion was too fast or not fully rendered. The idea of the scene and the tension of the scene was dead on the ball.
Okay, stuck in the MINES OF MORIA, everything is pretty much monochromatic in tones. Gandalf's staff lets off an unearthly white glow. REAL BRIGHT... BLEEDING ALL THE COLOR OUT... Only in the background do you see the yellowish reddish orangeish glow of the Balrog's impending flames. There's a low, low, low, low bass rumble here that gets into your chest and starts shaking your sternum, sort of like you swallowed Mom's vibrator. Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. It felt reeeeally good, but creepy at the same time, without the nasty aftertaste.
Gandalf knows what is coming. He's rushing the Fellowship away quickly. (something muffled about pounding in the background) The time for swords and arrows has passed. I was in the fetal position at this point, and poor JORAM! He shat himself, methinks!!
At last there is utter silence. The Fellowship is going down these steps. Goblins (sounds like firing arrows at them) from far above. Legolas returing fire. Arrows to the foreheads, me droogs. Serious ultraviolence. Muhahahahahaha...
Goblins die real good.
This should cause children to take their compound bows to school and kill every goblin in sight. Sad... the youth of today.
Anyway... the music by Howard Shore is in full swing here, and to be honest, my head was buzzing. I was so caught up in the things I was seeing that trying to focus on a single aspect... well, sadly, it was not within me. However, I do know that the score did not take away from my experience.
The bridge sequence is ungodly cool... the sort of ungodly cool that... well... I CANNOT EVEN BEGIN TO DESCRIBE HOW COOL THIS SEQUENCE WAS!! I've never seen anything like it. This scene had all the dramatic intensity of William Friedkin's SORCERER or the original WAGES OF FEAR, but even more cinematic. This is Cinema, big and showing me things my imagination has never conceived of. I was giggly-happy and dumbstruck all at once.
Then I saw the Balrog.
No shit. I've seen the Thing of Shadow and Fire as it breaks through a wall. My god. The things is enormous, horns like a black ram from the pit of Hell itself. Old cracked horns. Fire coming out of the cracked skin. Glowing mean as fuck eyes. Joram went "OhmygodfuckingcoolWOW!!" Calasuri was "....................................." The audience was in mid held-breath when...
Cut. New stuff from TWO TOWERS and RETURN OF THE KING. Applause. Loud hoots and hollers. The audience was leaving brown spots all over the leather of the Olympia II theater seats.
This is about all I can do on here right now. I'll do better when I get back to my Hobbit Hole in Austin. For right now......... bye!!
He then proceeded to babble at me for another 20 minutes about how amazing the footage was and how hardened jaded cynical critics were staggering out of the theater as if they'd had religious visions and how some cute Japanese girl explained why Tolkein never really worked in Japan (terrible translations), and how the film seemed to be a direct line to Tolkein's imagination finally for international audiences, and he told me a little about the Castle where the junket was and how he met Christopher Lee today, and by that point, I had no choice but to hang up on him in disgust.
Let me be perfectly clear about this... I hate each and every one of you bastards who sent in reports on the Cannes presentation of LORD OF THE RINGS footage today. Yeah, sure, I'm glad you sent me your reactions, but... but... YOU SAW IT!! ACK!! What am I supposed to do when I get a report like this first one from our man FROGGY?
Hey there, HARRY here... Again, I'm stuck on this blasted Web TV hell thing, so the report will be quite shorter or even less longer than I WOULD have liked.
Ok.... So I wake up as the sun starts popping into my window and I'm like... UGH... SUNLIGHT... HISSS hISSSS...
But then I think.... LORD OF THE RINGS FOOTAGE!!!! And my eyes begin increasing into the size of QUINT's squanching device... and equally protruding.
I get dressed in a nice two piece bikini... and decide to head out into CANNES.
THere is this taxi waiting on me, and I pop in. The guy looks at me as though I'm a fat ignorant American... he says something like with 2000 vowels, and I say "OUI" That was a not so bad Men's Magazine ya know?
Anyway... A bit later I arrive at the OLYMPIA theater... Currently among my most favorite theaters in existence! WHy?? Well, that's where the footage was plus.... A SECRET MOVIE I saw tonight with Dr Sotha... Sotha gave me.... OH wait, that's later....
Anyway, I enter the theater... No checking people people, so I just wander on into OLYMPIA 2 screening room. I'm FIRST!!!
Yup, I"m thaat guy.... The first guy in the room.... The jokerr that throws the curve off... The creep that takes the first seat... BUT THIS WAS LORD OF THE FRIGGING RINGS!!!! Where were the other guys?? Where was ONERING and FANDOM and those pirates from Holland? Aren't they supposed to be huger more bigger more enormous LOTR geeks than me?
Ok, they are... they just had to train in from NICE to get here, And I just had to steal a taxi... MUhahahahahaha
Well, I SIt there... thinking... "They could like go ahead and screen it now.... Like right now.... Like please show me the damn footage like now!" BUT noone seemed to be listening to my thoughts... SIGH.... Instead I watched a French dude hook up speakerrs and microphones... SEE? Those other sites missed thaat detail!!!!
Ok, so then Calisuri and Joram show up... THEY have this HOLY MISSION FROM GOD look in their eyes.. This, MAGI thing... Me, I'm all cool sex stud man.... Waiting for the butterflies... Whatever that means...
Ok, So then the place begins filling up with "THE INTERNATIONAL PRESS". Japan, Norway, Germany, England, Taiwan, Pluto, Zimbabwe, Mexico and Planet X... I was in the middle of a multicultural mixing pot.... If everyone shared DNA here... We would probably end up with a Michael Jackson.... It was that diverse.
Anyways... As everyone got settled, WE, THE ONLINE CONTINGENT, sat 3rd ROW center and awaited... THE SECOND COMING...
Off to the side I see Bob Shaye, Peter Jackson and Barrie Osborne all sitting there... Peter is... in Peter GARB (Read my THERE AND BACK AGAIN reports for better description)
Joram on my left and Calisuri on my right begin vibrating.... Shaye takes the mike... DOES The... Don't review this as it isn't finished sort of rap... Peter takes over and gives us a bit of a structure.
NOW... You've probably heard a description of the footage so far.... what scenes were shown... That sort of thing, BUT folks... I'm here to talk about EMOTIONAL DAMAGE that the footage caused.
During the MINES OF MORIA sequence... Joram was exclaiming, "OH SHIT.... FUCK ME..... NO WAY.... AWWWESOME.... OHMYGOD" Now I don't know if his concious brain was aware of this or not, but his jaw was firmly between his ankles and full on ready for John Holmes.
Meanwhile, Calisuri was on my right with eyes like Jim Carrey's when he was doing the WOLF THING overr Cameron Diaz.
Me... I kept my mouth shut, my eyes open... and oh man. You just don't understand.
First, the CAVE TROLL... Sure... It's CG... But not like MUMMY RETURNS CG... THIS is that grade way better than that. AND... The dang creature is ACTING. He's taking a look at his environment... He gets a hurt reaction when shot with a Legolas arrow... (End part one)
Then there's the stuff I attempted to transcribe. Believe it or not, he really does dictate complete with ellipses and words capitalized. Any and all insanity in these paragraphs is entirely his fault, even in the places in parentheses where I've been unable to decipher his excited ranting:
When he kills something, or thinks he's killed something, his face does that "Bruce Lee in ENTER THE DRAGON face contort in anguish and sorrow over the death he's just caused" look. This is because of Randy Cook, the stop motion guy from GHOSTBUSTERS and CAVEMAN, a genuine uber-fan God a la Ray Harryhausen. This creature was... EXTRAORDINARY... and will hitherfore be known as THE ANNOINTED ONE for the way he performed in this sequence. WAY cool.
Okay... the Fellowship is beheading Orcs over here and over there. Cave Troll? Kicking ass. By the way, Cave Troll is exactly King Kong 1933 scale, so imagine trying to kill King Kong with arrows and swords.
OH! OH! OH! OH! OH! OH! Let me tell you about STING! Sting glows!! Sting is like glowing in this really cool way. It glows!
Oh, sorry. Okay. So the Fellowship has cleared this whole area, and it gets to them being surrounded by 100 (sounds like goblins)... NOT ORCS... sheesh, these people... they're like Orcs with bigger eyes, exactly as I was describing two years ago. Really, really sweet looking.
This sequence was still temp effects, and some of the motion was too fast or not fully rendered. The idea of the scene and the tension of the scene was dead on the ball.
Okay, stuck in the MINES OF MORIA, everything is pretty much monochromatic in tones. Gandalf's staff lets off an unearthly white glow. REAL BRIGHT... BLEEDING ALL THE COLOR OUT... Only in the background do you see the yellowish reddish orangeish glow of the Balrog's impending flames. There's a low, low, low, low bass rumble here that gets into your chest and starts shaking your sternum, sort of like you swallowed Mom's vibrator. Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. It felt reeeeally good, but creepy at the same time, without the nasty aftertaste.
Gandalf knows what is coming. He's rushing the Fellowship away quickly. (something muffled about pounding in the background) The time for swords and arrows has passed. I was in the fetal position at this point, and poor JORAM! He shat himself, methinks!!
At last there is utter silence. The Fellowship is going down these steps. Goblins (sounds like firing arrows at them) from far above. Legolas returing fire. Arrows to the foreheads, me droogs. Serious ultraviolence. Muhahahahahaha...
Goblins die real good.
This should cause children to take their compound bows to school and kill every goblin in sight. Sad... the youth of today.
Anyway... the music by Howard Shore is in full swing here, and to be honest, my head was buzzing. I was so caught up in the things I was seeing that trying to focus on a single aspect... well, sadly, it was not within me. However, I do know that the score did not take away from my experience.
The bridge sequence is ungodly cool... the sort of ungodly cool that... well... I CANNOT EVEN BEGIN TO DESCRIBE HOW COOL THIS SEQUENCE WAS!! I've never seen anything like it. This scene had all the dramatic intensity of William Friedkin's SORCERER or the original WAGES OF FEAR, but even more cinematic. This is Cinema, big and showing me things my imagination has never conceived of. I was giggly-happy and dumbstruck all at once.
Then I saw the Balrog.
No shit. I've seen the Thing of Shadow and Fire as it breaks through a wall. My god. The things is enormous, horns like a black ram from the pit of Hell itself. Old cracked horns. Fire coming out of the cracked skin. Glowing mean as fuck eyes. Joram went "OhmygodfuckingcoolWOW!!" Calasuri was "....................................." The audience was in mid held-breath when...
Cut. New stuff from TWO TOWERS and RETURN OF THE KING. Applause. Loud hoots and hollers. The audience was leaving brown spots all over the leather of the Olympia II theater seats.
This is about all I can do on here right now. I'll do better when I get back to my Hobbit Hole in Austin. For right now......... bye!!
He then proceeded to babble at me for another 20 minutes about how amazing the footage was and how hardened jaded cynical critics were staggering out of the theater as if they'd had religious visions and how some cute Japanese girl explained why Tolkein never really worked in Japan (terrible translations), and how the film seemed to be a direct line to Tolkein's imagination finally for international audiences, and he told me a little about the Castle where the junket was and how he met Christopher Lee today, and by that point, I had no choice but to hang up on him in disgust.
Let me be perfectly clear about this... I hate each and every one of you bastards who sent in reports on the Cannes presentation of LORD OF THE RINGS footage today. Yeah, sure, I'm glad you sent me your reactions, but... but... YOU SAW IT!! ACK!! What am I supposed to do when I get a report like this first one from our man FROGGY?
When he kills something, or thinks he's killed something, his face does that "Bruce Lee in ENTER THE DRAGON face contort in anguish and sorrow over the death he's just caused" look. This is because of Randy Cook, the stop motion guy from GHOSTBUSTERS and CAVEMAN, a genuine uber-fan God a la Ray Harryhausen. This creature was... EXTRAORDINARY... and will hitherfore be known as THE ANNOINTED ONE for the way he performed in this sequence. WAY cool.
Okay... the Fellowship is beheading Orcs over here and over there. Cave Troll? Kicking ass. By the way, Cave Troll is exactly King Kong 1933 scale, so imagine trying to kill King Kong with arrows and swords.
OH! OH! OH! OH! OH! OH! Let me tell you about STING! Sting glows!! Sting is like glowing in this really cool way. It glows!
Oh, sorry. Okay. So the Fellowship has cleared this whole area, and it gets to them being surrounded by 100 (sounds like goblins)... NOT ORCS... sheesh, these people... they're like Orcs with bigger eyes, exactly as I was describing two years ago. Really, really sweet looking.
This sequence was still temp effects, and some of the motion was too fast or not fully rendered. The idea of the scene and the tension of the scene was dead on the ball.
Okay, stuck in the MINES OF MORIA, everything is pretty much monochromatic in tones. Gandalf's staff lets off an unearthly white glow. REAL BRIGHT... BLEEDING ALL THE COLOR OUT... Only in the background do you see the yellowish reddish orangeish glow of the Balrog's impending flames. There's a low, low, low, low bass rumble here that gets into your chest and starts shaking your sternum, sort of like you swallowed Mom's vibrator. Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. It felt reeeeally good, but creepy at the same time, without the nasty aftertaste.
Gandalf knows what is coming. He's rushing the Fellowship away quickly. (something muffled about pounding in the background) The time for swords and arrows has passed. I was in the fetal position at this point, and poor JORAM! He shat himself, methinks!!
At last there is utter silence. The Fellowship is going down these steps. Goblins (sounds like firing arrows at them) from far above. Legolas returing fire. Arrows to the foreheads, me droogs. Serious ultraviolence. Muhahahahahaha...
Goblins die real good.
This should cause children to take their compound bows to school and kill every goblin in sight. Sad... the youth of today.
Anyway... the music by Howard Shore is in full swing here, and to be honest, my head was buzzing. I was so caught up in the things I was seeing that trying to focus on a single aspect... well, sadly, it was not within me. However, I do know that the score did not take away from my experience.
The bridge sequence is ungodly cool... the sort of ungodly cool that... well... I CANNOT EVEN BEGIN TO DESCRIBE HOW COOL THIS SEQUENCE WAS!! I've never seen anything like it. This scene had all the dramatic intensity of William Friedkin's SORCERER or the original WAGES OF FEAR, but even more cinematic. This is Cinema, big and showing me things my imagination has never conceived of. I was giggly-happy and dumbstruck all at once.
Then I saw the Balrog.
No shit. I've seen the Thing of Shadow and Fire as it breaks through a wall. My god. The things is enormous, horns like a black ram from the pit of Hell itself. Old cracked horns. Fire coming out of the cracked skin. Glowing mean as fuck eyes. Joram went "OhmygodfuckingcoolWOW!!" Calasuri was "....................................." The audience was in mid held-breath when...
Cut. New stuff from TWO TOWERS and RETURN OF THE KING. Applause. Loud hoots and hollers. The audience was leaving brown spots all over the leather of the Olympia II theater seats.
This is about all I can do on here right now. I'll do better when I get back to my Hobbit Hole in Austin. For right now......... bye!!
He then proceeded to babble at me for another 20 minutes about how amazing the footage was and how hardened jaded cynical critics were staggering out of the theater as if they'd had religious visions and how some cute Japanese girl explained why Tolkein never really worked in Japan (terrible translations), and how the film seemed to be a direct line to Tolkein's imagination finally for international audiences, and he told me a little about the Castle where the junket was and how he met Christopher Lee today, and by that point, I had no choice but to hang up on him in disgust.
Let me be perfectly clear about this... I hate each and every one of you bastards who sent in reports on the Cannes presentation of LORD OF THE RINGS footage today. Yeah, sure, I'm glad you sent me your reactions, but... but... YOU SAW IT!! ACK!! What am I supposed to do when I get a report like this first one from our man FROGGY?
Froggy checking in from the Croisette
This morning in Cannes, Peter Jackson did presentations to international media, and international distributors/buyers.
Okay, at the risk of enduring talkback rage, I am about to confess to the unforgivable.
I HAVE NOT READ 'THE LORD OF THE RINGS'.
But I did see the 25 minutes of footage. I'm aware of most of the major characters names, and most of the actors, and even though I know some of my assumptions might be incorrect, I thought at least some AICN readers might be interested in the thoughts of a non-Tolkien geek.
The audience response was nothing less than phenomenal. Me? I nearly wet my pants.
The first five or six minutes was footage cut together from the first section of THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING. The music was temp-tracked of all things to the godawful introductory music of EMMA, as Gandalf rode through the hills, going past all the little houses embedded in them. It looked pretty cool, but i hated the music, it was all flutes and shit. Then there was at least two or three minutes of that was sequential footage of Ian McKellen as Gandalf arriving at the home of Bilbo Baggins (Ian Holm). Let me tell you, they have pulled off what I thought would be impossible: the scale of the hobbits works. You really believe they're about 3 feet tall.
Gandalf enters (with a little difficulty) the small house, and Bilbo is running around. It's his birthday. Cut to a party scene with what looks like a hundred hobbits, and Bilbo makes a speech about it being his Hundred and somethingth. Then he turns a bit dramatic, says "goodbye", and vanishes into thin air.
Gandalf isn't impressed - he's fooling around with 'the ring'.
Then another montage introduced us to Frodo and the other hobbits as they set off, and shots of them being chased by mean fuckers in coats on horseback. I saw those sequences in longer form earlier in the year.
Then, it looked like we cut into a scene that might have been half way in, or could have been towards the end. It involved Gandalf, the hobbits, and Viggo Mortensen having to go THROUGH a mountain. We were told that this was complete, an entire 15 minute sequence from the film, with complete music by Howard Shore.
Let me tell you, this sequence fucking ROCKED. The group enters a chamber that is littered with skeletons of what I think were dwarves. One had a diary that recorded their attempts to fend off an army (unsuccessfully). One of the hobbits accidentally knocks something down a well and the reverberations seem to alert something else in the mountain to their presence.
So then there is this friggin amazing attack sequence of them all getting hit upon by creatures that I think were called Orcs. It's like something out of GLADIATOR.
But that's not the half of it. Then this amazing ugly fucker of a creature bursts in and raises hell. I couldn't believe how real this thing looked. Imagine, if you will, a big, 20-foot-tall squinty eyed smoothskinned beast from the depths of hell, and the fury of Kathie Lee Gifford on crack. ie. pretty fucking nasty.
Anyway, I don't really want to say what happens, but the sequence in which they confront this thing was COMPLETELY gripping. I knew that it wasn't real, but you didn't think at all like the actors weren't interacting with a piece of CGI. IT LOOKED REAL. Even when they're jumping all over it, getting thrown through walls and get assaulted left right and centre, it looked completely real. I had thought that a production coming out of New Zealand was likely to have CGI effects that looked a bit cheap or nasty, but it actually looked like something beyond what we have seen before.
I can't describe what I next saw without conveying what happens in the above sequence. The creature is defeated.
They then try and go further through the mountain - they're looking for some kind of bridge that will get them through the other side. The room they're in is like a hundred football fields, with columns hundreds of feet high. and no light.
Then then get set upon by about a hundred thousand orcs that descend from all directions, including above. they're surrounded. this scene reminded me of that sequence in pitch black, where they're literally surrounded by creatures, and the light from the flamed torch illuminates only the immediate surroundings. it looked horrifying.
But then they are all scared off by something that, unbelievably, is worse. We didn't get to see it, just the impact that this evil has on the orcs. Gandalf says something to the effect of that this force is something that they can't even comprehend battling, and all they can do is run like hell.
So they do. And then came the sequence that literally took my breath away. I don't want to spoil it too much, all it involves is them needing to get from one part of a collapsed staircase to the other. Some jump across. Some get thrown. But how Viggo and Frodo attempt the cross was the best action/suspense scene i've scene at the movies in recent memory. Fuck, it rocked.
Anyway, as I sit here typing this I realise I have to run off and catch Ethan Hawke's CHELSEA WALLS. I have no time here to talk about the last five or six minutes, which was a montage of footage from the other two films. Footage of battles, internal conflicts, Cate Blachett talking to Frodo, and a really creepy final shot of a battered, burnt and fucked-up Elijah Wood
seemingly making a decision to put on the ring. Sheeesh - he looks amazing in this film. So final thoughts are:
- This film looks like it will make about incomprehensible money, and more, at the worldwide box. I thought I was interested in seeing the new Star Wars. I'm not anymore. I was so impressed I have decided to go out and buy the books. I really want to know the story, and the characters I only got glimpses of.
- I really think the film/s deliver more than people are expecting, let alone hoping. I can't describe the magnitude of the images.
Gotta run, that's it for now
FROGGY
Okay. Let's put this into perspective. Here's someone who hasn't read the books, and look how excited he got. Hell, the report that ran on http://www.premiere.fr/cannes2001/News/news.php?News=news_20010511_173904>French Premiere's site today left me with that same sense of gnawing envy. Thanks for the heads-up on that one, Rudy. I mean... read this excerpt from their report. In some ways, I prefer the reports of non-fans, because there's something pure about the thrill of discovery. Check out these descriptions:
"Frodo almost dies in a thrilling fight against a Green Giant. The deeper they crawl down through the mountain, the stronger tension rises. Each step of a gigantic stairway collapses one after the other behind them before they meet the abyss keeper, a spider devil. This staggering sequence offers us new sensations we didn’t think possible anymore in cinema. The last minutes from episodes 2 and 3 emphasize the size of the production with great battles in gigantic and dreamlike locations. And that is exactly the idea this preview screening left in us : size. Even if we knew it beforehand, we still get blasted by the scope of the finished work. Peter Jackpot gave forms to Tolkien’s world with a stunning vigour. The other good news is Peter Jackson’s style we still find in every shot. As surely as we recognize a Tim Burton
skeleton, every single monster, every knight, every detail here is the result of an evolution we can trace back in every movie of this author. That is not that surprising when you see him. He looks exactly the same mischievous way he did when he came over here to present Bad Taste 15 years ago. Nothing compared to all the weeks we will have to wait before we see the first episode of the Trilogy in december 2001."
"A spider devil." I like that. I'm jazzed to see what it is that's left otherwise perfectly rational people grasping at hyperbole. Check out this final report, filed by our own SOLAMEN. You may see this show up again in a Euro-AICN report later today, but I couldn't wait to share this part with you.
SOLAMEN's THIRD DAY IN CANNES - LOTR PREVIEW !!
Oh my God oh my God oh my God I've seen the 20 minutes preview of The Lord of the Rings oh my God oh my God oh my God... Well that's pretty much what I have said all day long!
I had decided to sleep longer today : no film before 1 pm, except Apocalypse Now Redux at 8.30 am and this film at breakfast, well, no thanks ! I love it but I've seen it once and that's enough for the rest of my life cause it was a real trauma for me ! So it was 11.30 am when I arrived at the Palais des Festival (it's late in Cannes life) and then a friend calls me (God bless the cell phones !) saying that he was in a small cinema in Cannes and that the screening of the preview was about to begin. It was a surprise because we
thought it was supposed to take place tomorrow. Well, I ran but invitations was needed. Actually, in Cannes, you always have a friend who has a friend who has a friend... and my friend had a friend ! So I came in.
It was mostly press and television people and of course they asked us not to do any review since it was not really a definitive material but... Well now, here is my review of the LOTR preview! First you have to know that I am a forever fan of the book so I was ready to be very critical about it. What we saw was a montage of the scenes of the first film The Fellowship of the Ring, a few seconds for every passage : Gandalf arriving, meeting back Bilbo, Bilbo's birthday party and disappearance, Frodo discovering about the Ring, then the four Hobbits leaving and being chased by the Black Riders (I only read it in French so I don't really know if they're actually called like that) then meeting Aragorn at the inn, then the battle against the Black Riders and Elrond's house and how the fellowship was formed and began the journey.
Then we saw almost all the Mines of the Moria scenes... They cut it when Gandalf confronts the Balrog (which by the way I never imagined like that) After we saw something really exceptionnal : excerpts from The Two Towers and from The Return of the King and the final moment was when Frodo is about to drop the ring into the lava then turns back and says that he will keep it.
So my impression is : Oh my God ! It looks so great and so incredible ! It's not of course the exact way I had imagined it when I had read the book but if it's not my image of it it's anyway images that perfectly match the book and the atmosphere. The landscapes are exactly what they should be, Bilbo's house, in a hole lived a hobbit, and it's a great hole ! The forests are deep and the images are full of atmosphere. About the actors what we saw was not enough to way "wow !" but of course it was well acted and particularly Frodo : its evolution through the film is really sensible as we had glimpses from the beginning to the very end.
What struck me most was the special effects. I must confess that I don't like movies with special effects only, it annoys me cause for me cinema is acting first. Well here not only the special effects are stupendous (wait till you see the Mines of the Moria) but they perfectly integrate the scene. The hobbits, well, they seem to be born like that and they do not contrast at all with tall people ! Everything look like if it has been designed by the
best Tolkien specialized drawers. And it was really something full of emotion.
About the script, the main fear for European people is still here : we are afraid that to appeal american audiences Peter Jackson may alter the book (most of us don't have a high opinion of American audiences, no offense). Anyway, it was not possible to say if he did alter it or not after what we saw. Anyway what we saw is incredible and as I said before I'm a real fan of the book so I'm
supposed to be very critical.
After that, I went to see an Iranian movie about the women condition in Afghanistan. It was a fine film but not really comitted when it
should have been more striking with the horrible sufferings that take place there.
Anyway, I still had my head wandering in Lothlorien :)
And the LOTR party will you ask ? Apparently, it would not be on the day it was supposed to be (tonight). To be continued...
Can't wait to get Harry's reaction. Right now, he's up to his neck in interviews for LORD OF THE RINGS, getting 25 various cast and crew members on video for you guys to enjoy later. I'm sure we'll hear from him soon, and I'll be sure to update this article with any further reactions that come rolling in today. Enjoy!!
"Moriarty" out.
P.S.: HREF=mailto:robogeek@robogeek.com>ROBOGEEK here. I also wanted to point our readers to Crispian Balmer's story for Reuters as well as David Germain's report for the Associated Press - both of which are glowing. Enjoy.
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Normally I just lurk, but this is the last straw. Anyone who's been to France, seen this footage, and interviewed the stars must immediately have their eyes put out.
Seriously, as a big JRRT fan, I have been confident in the quality of the films for several months now; what I worried about was how they would fare in the modern 5-minute attention span world. New Line deserves a big payoff for taking this gamble, so the more good vibes they can generate, the better. -
The answer, Amazing Larry, is a definitive YES! Read the books first.
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I live in Spain. This means I'll have to wait 9-12 months to see this flick. So, I'm not playing the game of "oooohh, it's soooo coool". I have patience... I'll wait (I saw the trailer months ago, and I know this one will get into the top 10 best box-office of all times... but I doubt it'll top Titanic).
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If you read the book any book it will always seem to ruin the movie, because it will never match your interpertation. But in this case the books are so good, it just doesn't matter. I too am just another jeolous pleeb wishing I was one of the special people. sigh just seven months.
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I too am a Larry, perhaps just extrodinary and not amazing, and I must say that to read or not to read is your choice. I think the film should have the power to stand alone or it isn't much of a movie. The books are wonderful but they do require a bit more work than some books published today. I wonder if Tolkien had never submitted the scripts if the "savy" book editors to today would have even published these gems. Rather I think they would have done an editorial overhall. ANYWAY, while I am not the first to post, I WAS very likely the most anxious person to read the above account. I would skip the Hobbit and read the books, but you should be fine either way.
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...and I don't care to, but I'll see this film(hell, all three) for the wonderful Cate Blanchett.
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YEEEEEEEEEEES! Read the books. When you do, you'll understand just how insanely massive the trilogy is...Not is size necessarily, but in scope... the true epic nature of the story. Then when you see the images on screen, they'll make your butt tingle because you'll sit there and say "I know what that means..."
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France, especially Cannes this year, is beyond my budget. However, San Diego is not. So, I am planning to go to the San Diego ComicCon in July where there is a presentation devoted to The One Movie. I am a comic book geek but have never made the effort to go to SanD., but this year I am SO there. Anybody else? My wife and I want our room for the obvious lights-out vacation fun, but during the day, me and my press pass are going places!
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Having read the books pretty much once every couple of years (I'm 28 now), I can honestly say that reading some of those reviews gave me that giddy joy I had when I first read the LotR. Even though small (and potentially large) things have been changed, I feel fairly confident that these will be excellent films. The days grow longer...but I'm kind of enjoying the wait. Wasn't it CS Lewis who said something about (praphrasing) "It is better to want for a thing than to have that thing."
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First off, blaming American Audiences for the altering of films is ludicrous... It's not as though we (as Americans) sit around and think of ways in which we can stink up movies. We have highly paid professionals to take care of that. Second, if footage is cut from the movie, it sure as hell wouldn't be to take out anything that we sensitive pansy American's would find offensive. I don't recall any beastial sex subplots, or vicious graphic Arwen rape sequences in Tolkien's original version, so why would P.J. have to cut anything to appease our sensibilities? The violence could be filmed over the top, sure... but if you would do your homework, America loves violence. Ratings are only in an effort to curtail our children from learning anything about sexual relationships before the age of 17. American audiences happen to hate Namby-Pamby tea-drinking holier-than-though British Monarchists who read "the book" a few times... no offense, of course.
Signed,
American Fan; has read book a few times.
With that said (and I admit, there is a small amount of jealousy: Who the hell would want to see the entire Moria scene out of context several months before the movie comes out. I'd hate to sit in the theatre opening night thinking, "Been there, done that." -
The best part is, that the whole Mines of Moria segment occurs in the first book/film so we won't have to wait till next year or the year after. Sorry to everyone else who won't be able to see this in December, one of the few things beneficial to living in the US (the stranglehold on the "entertainment" biz and all). Now if only Pearl Harbor would dissapear...
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May 11, 2001 2:19:37 PM CDT
"Mean fuckers on horseback..." that should be their character na
by lenny nero
that would be something nifty to see in a pg rated film (or, actually, maybe it's gonna be pg-13 cuz of the violence...whatever)
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A composer's score for a movie is typically competent in direct relation to the movie itself. Unfortunately, since it's Howard Shore we're talking about, this merely means the score will be forgettable. We'll be walking back to our cars once the movie is over, and find ourselves stopping in our tracks, suddenly unable to even remember what the music sounded like. Because that's Howard Shore at his best.
At his worst? I haven't heard it, probably. But I did see Se7en. Check out the "box" sequence at the end for a good example of why no-name composers traditionally do not get attached to high-profile projects. It's because there is the RISK that they will be in the middle of a no-talent phase, as with the misfortunate Se7en.
But hey, they always have the option of rejecting the score. It's happened before.
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$250 million in 10 weeks. This
looks too good to fail. Everything is in place. The FX,
the way the scenes are laid out,
the backgrounds, everything. Now,
if I could only muster the patience to wait until, what, Nov., Dec? Oh, yeah. And please
let this movie bury Harry Potter
and his legions of brainwashed
spermivores. Thank You. Snoogans. -
That means, at least through America, Japan, Europe, Oz and NZ. And probably some other countries in Africa and Asia, though only some of them, I'd guess.
Spanish guys won't have to wait 9 months. US people (major grin) won't see them before all the other :)
7 months to go.
I WANNA SEE THE DAMN FRIGGIN MOVIES NOW! -
I know America is the center of the world for most of its inhabitants but why is this guy so surprised that a non-American movie could have decent special effects? Sure it doesn't happen too often but why would anyone think it impossible??? This is one of the reasons why Americans have a bad reputation with the rest of the world.
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We aren't surprised about a 'non-American' film having good special effects. I think that the point he was trying to make was that many narrow minded people associate NZ, with syndicated series like Xena and Hercules. Those special effects aren't the best of quality. I don't assume much about anything. I'm just glad that someone might give Pearl Harbor some comp for best special effects. Someone needs to take ILM of of their high horse.
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needs to! It's a classic and THE best book series I have ever read. Any self respecting geek wouldn't dare not have already read this.
Mosaic -
Solamen's remark about american audiences is something I found interresting but first my reaction to the reactions of the journalists in Cannes: I CAN'T WAIT! I mean this is exactly the kind of reaction I up until now only have dreamed of in my happiest dreams!!! Then back to Solamen. As European, living in Sweden I think I understand Solamen in some ways, I myself am pretty tired of the kind of films that in several places show of the american flag and are too patriotic. I mean I'm swedish why would I care? But then again there's no point being disturbed by this so who cares, I don't (most of the time :-). What annoys me more is when american movies mess up history in movies like Prince of Egypt to be more entertaining but this isn't wrong either (in most cases). Worse is pictures showing prejudices against other cultures like Middle East, Japan or Russia, but then again my views are different as I'm swedish. My conclusion is that it's meaningless to care too much as long that it doesn't go too far, which it seldom does. If it does, I simply won't see the movie at all. Like The Patriot, Air Force One or Three Kings, there's no reason for me seeing theese films as I don't get them and doesn't understand what makes them popular... Then about Solamen's article: he annoys me when saying "most of us don't have a high opinion of American audiences, no offense" about europeans, maybe he means "some of us" but certainly not most of us, most of us are smarter than him and don't share his opinion! But at the same time I like his remark because it stirred up a small debate. I guess I can't take sides here, sorry! The most important part here for me is undoubtely the fact that the LOTR screening was such an immense success!!
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...so I don't know why everyone is always bashing "American audiences". I remember a very sad article from 2000 that related how the SUBSIDISED French film industry couldn't get more than $2 million box office from any of the French-made movies.
The British film industry is a different matter, of course- with more success and widespread appeal. But really, European audiences spend the vast bulk of their moviegoing dollars on American films. Is there a certain segment of the American public that is un-educated and can't understand any spectator event more complicated than a house fire? Yes, but there are also about 100 million Americans who are well-educated and sophisticated. -
I've just blown off. These films are going to be the bollocks. There's a woman in work who we call Gangrape and I would lose a finger to get carnal with her rusty sheriffs badge but to see a completed print of The Fellowship Of The Ring now never mind the whole trilogy I'd probably lose a testicle.
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let me see it now. Please
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May 11, 2001 4:54:09 PM CDT
Absolutely can't wait...by the way read Harry Potter, its mini L
by brian 2000
I hate how you people dismiss Potter as nothing. I have read both, so take that. Don't bash stuff you havent read, whoever said Potter fans are brainwashed - READ THEM, these arent about the adventures of Harry and his magical misfortunes! This is the story of a person who is famous in another world because his parents were brutally murdered by an evil wizard who no one could stop. Then the wizard went to kill Potter and for some unknown reason was destroyed leaving the baby with a scar. The story is about Harry entering this new world while trying to find out about his past, just as the evil wizard resurfaces (they kick ass!) The first two are a little lighthearted and kiddie yes I will admit it. But the third is dramatic and amazing, while the fourth book is DARK...people DIE!! Plus the fourth book is 730 pages of coolness (more than any LOTR novel). These books are right up AICN geek allies! Try them, try them you will see...I personally thing LOTR and Potter will feed off of eachother if ignorant morons who have only read one of the series dont start a rivalry.
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LOL ! wow ! some snobbish Europeans are out in number tonight. Butt wat Dos us stupit Amerikanz now anewayys! Im just from the Southwest, just fresh from milking the cows and feeding the horses. Now Im going to sit down and watch my brilliant Pokemon show and when my brain fills with that masterpiece, Ill go out and push cows in the pasture at night for fun!!! Anyways, I hope the hype is worth the watch. Till then ill cross my fingers, light a candle in church, and go read the LOTR again. Peace and dont judge a book by its cover!!!
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If you want a real substandard LOTR ripoff read Robert Jordans Wheel of Time books.
Harry Potter is a slightly above average amalgamation of many other ideas and stories. But it cannot be compared to LOTR for a start Potter is pulp childrens fantasy, LOTR is a prose epic. Lotr is one story told in 6 books, technically it is one book.
Potter is a series of novels and rips off the Worst witch, the discworld nvels and countless other stories. -
Holy Living Fuck. I must see this film now. Harry... If I fly to france RIGHT NOW, can you get me in to see this? Pretty Please? I think i am gonna scream until december. I _MUST_ SEE THIS MOVIE.
Thank You. That is all. -
Harry's reaction was all I was waiting for. I can now sleep in peace and awaken the week FOTR is released. Thank you, Harry. Thank you, thank you , thank you. . . thank you. I don't even think that I need to see photos anymore. I can now concentrate on summer movies.
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May 11, 2001 6:37:29 PM CDT
Yeah, Euros! Thanks for giving Batman & Robin big box office!!!
by superninja
Heheh...This LOTR footage sounds pretty damn good. I do hope the creature-features department captures the emotiveness Harry spoke of. I'm tired of seeing monsters that are two-dimensional. Or characters for that matter. How much better would've The Mummy (new) series have been if we had felt the characters were in actual *gasp* DANGER? Guess I'm spoiled by that silly Indiana Jones stuff and all...
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There is a lot more to the Rings trilogy than cinematography and fight sequences. It has to be a difficult task to fit that much story into even three films. But it seems like they are on the right track with the character designs.
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But, then again, this is totally different. Does anybody know about that giant spider (sheeba, or shelbo, or something)? Did they show that? I thought that was one of the neatest parts of the book.
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Not to argue one way or the other, but it's worth mentioning that Rowlings claimed not to have read any fantasy books until after writing one or two Potter books, and even then not many. So it's not technically a rip-off, more just the subconscious channeling of what Tolkien and others have done to the culture. Potter 1-3 are basically detective novels crossed with Roald Dahl, anyway.
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DAMMIT Harry, did the Balrog have an UDDER or NOT???!?!?? gubba gubba gubba guh guh huhhuhh hhhhhhhhh........... [blank drooling smile] ______________ _______________ ______________________ WE GOT FLATLINE!!! CLEAR!! __________^_______________ AGAIN!!!
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Okay, December, GET HERE already!!!! Okay, now onto some other matters. Harry Potter = some great stuff. It's an incredibly fun story that kids & adults can read & enjoy. The 4th book was AMAZING, how dark it got. Calling it a rip-off is the utmost of hypocrisy, when one praises LOTR in the same breath. LOTR was not "original" in its entirety. Tolkien drew upon hundreds of years of fables, tales, myths, histories, and spun them into his own fully envisioned world. Just because Rowling's influences may be more recent doesn't make them any better or worse. When I read the first Harry Potter book, I felt like a kid again, my imagination kicked into overdrive. I've read WAY too much fantasy, and not all of it even the good stuff, but LOTR & Harry Potter really get my mind racing with imagery. As for a Tolkien wannabe, yeah, Wheel of Time is one. It's really Tolkien lite, yeah you need a team of historians to keep all the references straight (or just a Jordan newsgroup or message board full of fans) since it's so long (and ongoing!!!), but it's really being stretched thin in some regards. I enjoy those books immensely, and love sketching characters & such from them (which I've also done with most every book I've enjoyed), but that series really doesn't compare. For an epic fantasy, it's got a tad too much American sensibilities in it. For another good spinner of old stories, check Tad Williams' "Memory, Sorrow, & Thorn" trilogy. It's a little more blatant with its influences, but he spins a damn fine yarn. When I read the first few Potter books, I started scribbling out my own character designs, how I imagined them (I wasn't crazy about the cover illustrations & chapter icons)... now the movie's coming out, and, similar to LOTR, it pretty much looks like everything it's supposed to be. Sure, it's not exactly how *I* envisioned it, but as a review above stated, it's a faithful vision. I just worry, like many fans of both series, that all this commercialization could cheapen these tales. Why will kids read the books when they can see the movies? Even easy-reads like Harry Potter may suffer once the barrage of films, toys, and product tie-ins hit full-force. But that's for another time... I think Harry Potter's a great Junior LOTR. Kids who enjoy those books will almost certainly graduate to LOTR sometime. Whether "Hagrid" or "Dumbledore" stand the test of time as well as "Gandalf" and "Frodo" remains to be seen... but hey, it's helped thousands of kids enjoy reading, & their families. Can't fault Rowling for that! There's room in the world for both series, and both movies. Harry Potter's audience may abandon it dramatically once Fellowship hits, but it'll pretty much dominate the box office for several weeks... I'm hoping it'll be a back & forth between Potter & Monsters, Inc, myself! Oh, this fall/winter's gonna be HOT!
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wish i had time to write a longer post...but i had a notion....if a popcorn flick like mummy returns can grab box-office ass like it has....why not LOTR?...i saw SilentBob X's post about 250 mil in 10 weeks...i think that's a tad under...Titanic made it to the top of the heap from repeat viewings by preteen girls....which is fine...they get an allowance and can spend it on whatever trash they like...LOTR on the other hand will be supported by every geek in existence...and make repeat viewing history...---remember seeing starwars in the theatre about repeatedly as a kid?...get ready for that again...except this time we are all adults, and we can pay our own way...thats my 2 cents at any rate...this movie is gonna make all of us reconsider the definition of BLOCKBUSTER!!!...
cheers to one and all......exador out -
OK, I don't really have anything to add about LOTR, except that I'm really excited by these descriptions of the FX...after "The Mummy Returns" (that was *ILM*, remember--supposedly the best FX house in the business...yikes!) I was panic-stricken. I thought, "Geez, maybe there is some kind of trade-off between "scope" and "quality" in FX-land, and LOTR is doomed to look as cheesy as that dog army...and it has been so long since a movie has had really great FX. But I had heard that WETA took this very seriously and believed they were working on something special, and it's good to hear people so impressed with the FX (and lots of time to make them even better...that's good). Anyway. Harry Potter. If Rowling says she hadn't read a lot of fantasy before writing Harry Potter, she's a liar. She obviously knows a lot about fantasy, because she uses various mythological beings and legendary elements correctly (like Mandrake roots, or the philosopher's stone), as someone who's read the original stories. Very reminiscent of "Sandman", which I also have a hard time believing she hadn't read beforehand. And then of course there's the Roald Dahl influence. This is not to label her a ripoff artist...but on the other hand, to say LOTR is no more original is to really miss the boat. Of course Tolkien drew on myth and legend for his inspiration, but the very act of doing so, creating an entirely modern retroactive mythology, is something nobody had even DREAMED of doing before Tolkien did it. Likewise, the idea of plopping someone down into the "world" of a story, with thousands of years of preexisting mythical history and culture which is "known" to the characters but which reveals itself only gradually to the reader, is something that LOTR pioneered. There are other, highly inventive fantasy stories out there, but come on guys, Tolkien isn't the granddaddy of modern fantasy for nothing...
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...I suggest you watch Three Kings. It's evident from your comments that you haven't seen it, and just because it involves the US Military it's a bunch of flag-waving propaganda. It's not. Far from it. It seriously criticizes the US' actions in the Gulf, and it's a damn fine film. --- Also, I just can't fucking wait. I wasn't too excited before Harry's There And Back series (I haven't read the books) but after that, and now this...Christmas can't come soon enough.
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May 11, 2001 9:39:13 PM CDT
I haven't read the books, I'm drunk right now, but this sounds l
by han ol' buddy
Harry and friends, you have totally convinced me that this will be the biggest movie franchise in HISTORY!!! I haven't read the books, I saw the cartoon years ago, but I will be reading the books this summer and I will be one of the geeks waiting in line when the first movie comes out to see it. This sounds friggin' awesome. Star Wars, look out. People may forget about you! "Anakin? Darth Vader? What the F are you talking about?!?!?" Later all.
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Apart from the geek community there is NO buzz for this pic. Only 7 months to go, where's the buzz.
OH, come december it's going to be ugly, Harry potter 220 mil, LOTR 100-110 mil max.
I like how some of the above reviews come from non LOTR fanatics - that just happen to all the names of the characters by heart.
Lets see some NON geek or even slightly non geek reviews for this, get ken turan in or just a non, virgin geek to review it. -
I am going to put in my 2 cents worth about Mr. Shore.
I feel that his scores to the LOTR trilogy will be incredible.
Through the years, he has proven to be not only versatile, but gifted as well.
He's done everything from mainstream comedies (Mrs Doutfire) to some pretty strange and innovative stuff (insert almost any Cronenberg film within these brackets),
But, lest we forget 2 of my favourite films of all friggin time. SILENCE OF THE LAMBS and SE7EN. His scores to these films absolutely rocked! I admit Se7en is a bit of a mindf#*k if you listen to it without watching the film. But let's be honest here, within the film, it was PERFECT!
...and to anyone who disagrees with me, well, you are certainly entitled to your opinions, but while you're opinionating, please remember to get down on your knees and Kiss My...... -
That has to be one of the dumbest comments I've ever heard from Siniarblades. Harry Potter making 200 million dollars...what press has been made about this movie. If you're not a even bigger geek than the LoTR fans..no one even cares about that movie. Get your head out of your ass son, and be real. LoTR will get the buzz, and will make FAR more cash than Harry Potter ever makes. I really hope you were just trying to be funny, cause if you were serious thats just sad.
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May 11, 2001 10:10:03 PM CDT
PLANTS! all of these were reviews were plants!, I was there and
by dignin2
Ok. I am a man. I have heard of Bilbo, Frodo, and Gandlaf, Never has thy virgin eyes been laidith (not a real word, but i like it, so, um...fuck off.) on to the LOTR trilogy, but these reviews are driving me insain, i cant fucking wait. they will rule with large iron fists, but instead of iron fingers on this mighty fist of iron, they are iron dildos, and instead of ruling they are getting a blow job, but not just any blow job, but one given by the Pope, and the Popes 'fluffer' is Darth Vader... Because, you know, if the popes gonna get you off, Whos gonna get the Pope off? I mean Darth was sexually frustrated once, so he blew up planets and strangled failure ridden lackies...so in conclusion i want to see LOTR more then my dick grow 3 inches. Although that would be cool. But i want the satisfaction of a good movie, can you dig?
WHAT ABOUT 40 LASHES!!!!!!!!??!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?????????!!!!!!!!!????????!!????? QT we need this to be the best year in film since the early 90's. We deserve it...i've been good, really, i have. No coal this year please.
.miT -
...did you know that Peter Weller's over in Europe getting ready to film-wait for it-"Master and Commander," the first Aubrey/Maturin book? I believe Heath Ledger is up for Captain Aubrey. Talk about another wonderful series of books being made into films (or, a film) by a cool director! And why haven't we heard about this from the good folks at AICN?
Anyway, LOTR is THE movie for me this year, and for those of you who haven't read the series, just go ahead and read it. It won't spoil the movie for you, and you'll be treating yourselves to some of the best books you've ever read, books that will stick with you forever. -
..is to get Howard's Score rejected and replace him with Williams. This kind of epic Wagnerian shit, with leitmotivs for each character, is exactly what Williams excels at. Come on. There's no doubt. Horner and Shore can go kill themselves. Williams should be doing this, with his trademark lush Romanticism. YOU KNOW IT TO BE TRUE. JOHN WILLIAMS FOR MAYOR!
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give me a break, jordan's a substandard ripoff of tolkien my ass. his is an amazingly rich world and if you only want one author writing great stories and drawing from countless other mythologies....well, your fucked. get your rings books, move into a cave and ignore every other story ever written. i'll happily have a good life, read all kinds of books, see many movies and smile. asshead.
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May 11, 2001 11:25:57 PM CDT
Wicked Pissa/Euros: venerable defender of anti-Amercian rhetoric
by forward_deploy
All I can say is Wow. I honestly can't wait to see this movie. I've had to recently quash my expectations of the screen adaptation of the LOTR based on prior experiences. However, this latest mini-review seems to have raised the bar for all those who inflict upon themselves substandard expectations. I hope Peters J's highly tauted skills can compare to the inimitable reputation he shares amongst most LOTR fans.
NewMexi, being an American, I too just came back from herding and branding cattle, bailing hay, watching patriotic movies so Ameriacentric that it makes the Aristotilian view of the universe look ultramodern, and, of course, making unilateral decisions concerning missile defense (without consulting our majesties in Europe, Russia, and China).
Oh well, back to watching reruns of Neil Armstrong and et al walking (and driving) on the moon -
OK, this is what I was waiting to hear. ---------------Commented one journalist, ``The best film at the festival isn't even in the festival.''--------------The mind-blowing mine sequence featured a mixture of action, suspense and digital special effects.------------Boston Herald;-------Judging by what we saw, long-suffering fans can finally expect to get the screen adaptation they've always wanted...------------------As for the special effects,... one comment will suffice for now: George Lucas, watch your back.------------Totonto Star;--------Right from the beginning we feel it is going to be huge.-------------- French Premiere.-------- There's what some of the world press are saying, doubtless there will be more praise to come. I can now breath a sigh of relief, it looks like it's all good! I never really doubted the quality of the films, but I was worried that the world press would label this as cheap fantasy and condemn it from the starts. Instead, it looks as though they see this as something special, as most of us here do.
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May 12, 2001 1:52:21 AM CDT
I'm jealous and I want that press book or whatever it's called.
by freya
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If I remember correctly, Balrog was never much described in LOTR, so he might well be a spider like creature. The important thing is that Balrog is the biggest, meanest and scariest motherfucker in the world and it seems that Jackson got that right. I'm very satisfied. Some numbers: Potter books have sold slighly more than 40 million. LOTR has sold around 70 million. LOTR has been around for 50 years so a lot more people have read it. I have read the book three times, but I have never bought it. Why? Because libraries have been invented, that's why. A lot more people have read the book than just the ones who have actually bought it. Some say that there is no hype around LOTR besides internet. If you haven't noticed, just about ALL important movie magazines have written BIG articles about LOTR. It's seven months to film, for christ sakes! The cannes film festival is supposed to be the big launch for the marketing and hype for the movies. And just for the record, LOTR seems to have bigger hype around it than Phanom Menace had seven months before release. And finally, Howard Shore is a very good composer, but you are not supposed to listen to his soundtracks out of their context. Shore doesn't write pop tunes like Williams. He's scores trust in ATMOSPHERE, not melodies. All of his scores have been ranging from good to great so far. Just check out Silence Of The Lambs, Seven (yes, a very good, scary score), Ed Wood or Naked Lunch to hear why he is so good. It's true that he's soundtracks don't stick to mind. Why? Because they have no melodies and they FIT the films so well. You don't notice them, but you FEEL them. This is apparently what Jackson wanted and that's why he chose Shore.
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May 12, 2001 3:16:03 AM CDT
IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THE BOOKS, DON'T READ THE LAST REVIEW!!!
by pippin's diamond
Sheesh, talk about a major spoiler, Mori! I'd viciously rip that silly mustache off your face if I hadn't read the books thrice by now. ;-) BTW Harry, Mori, KUDOS and THANK YOU BOTH for this most holiest of reports! Sounds like everything I expected and more is coming our way this December! (agh, *December*!) CRYOGENIC CHAMBER, WHERE ARE THOU WHEN THOU ART NEEDED!? I'm rather happy I didn't get to see the footage, though. I wouldn't want to see the Moria sequence all out of context. Shore's score seems what I expected from the looks of it, I think it'll be alright. Shore for LOTR, Williams for Harry Potter, everything's well and good. And speaking of Harry Potter, for the love of Eru, will you people stop putting down Potter fans like we're the lowest common denominator already? Last thing I need is some faceless fanboy telling me what books I should or shouldn't enjoy! Damn you all, Potter haters! May Gandalf and Dumbledore both put a pox on you and your doggies, and may the midget son of Frodo and Hermione piddle on your graves!
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Check Looking For Richard, Dogma & Dead Ringers. Those three should convince anyone about Shore
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Do you really think there's a lot of Brits who never read Tolkien? They don't consider him as "fantasy", that's it. She was obviously meaning Jordan, Howard, Dragonlance stuff and the like.
In fact, here's an exact quote from here:
"I don't really like fantasy. It's not so much that I don't like it, I haven't really read a lot of it. I have read Lord of the Rings, though. I read that when I was about 14. I didn't read The Hobbit until I was in my 20s--much later. I'd started Harry Potter by then, and someone gave it to me, and I thought, Yeah, I really should read this, because people kept saying, 'You've read The Hobbit, obviously?' And I was saying, 'Um, no.' So I thought, Well, I will, and I did, and it was wonderful. [Sheepish smile]"
J.K. Rowling
quoted from an interview in Newsweek, July 10, 2000
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Fair enough about Kilar. I have many of his scores and he would be perfect for LOTR. But Shore ain
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For those of you desperate to see the LotR Booklet, GO TO THE OFFICIAL SITE! (www.lordoftherings.net) Click on the Cannes 2001 link and you can get a PDF file of the entire booklet, which I am presently attempting to save to my hard drive so I can print it out...when I get some WORTHY paper for its magnicence. ^o^ It's BEAUTIFUL! Wonderful new pictures, Frodo at Rivendell, Frodo and Sam, Frodo and Bilbo, Merry and Pippin, GALADRIEL - looking perfect - as Faramir calls her in the book, "perilously fair".
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This film will do that in a week. LOFR has the largest, pre-film release, fan base in the world. If the 350 million folks who visited theonering.net the last few months is any indication, this film will make more money than any other. But I think that, money aside, it will sell more tickets than any-other. I've been asking around, and I feel that anyone from the age of newborn all the way to old and bed-ridden will head out to the theater this December. Marketing? You still buy 'Pepsi', don't ya? If there are those (I'm one) of you who have read the books more than once, I'm guessing that you'll see the movies more than once. Harry Potter? No. Try Tolkien's good friend C.S.Lewis, who wrote the incredible, "Chronicles of Narnia".
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I can't believe they showed the shot of Frodo turning from the Cracks of Doom!! Gads. I think the whole thing would've brought tears to my eyes. ***About Potter, Pippin's D.--you tell em! Ignoramuses abound. ***And Miami, how can you possibly wait for books three and four to go to paperback?! Pull a Buzz and get to the library!
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Ok, let's be sensible about this. It seems pretty sure now that the film will at least open very big. FOTR will open at 10.000 theatres worldwide. It will likely be the biggest opening weekend ever simply because there are so many screens. In USA it will make between 45 and 70 million during the first weekend. But it will make that much only if the new teasers and trailers will be better than the current one. They have to show how BIG the films are and that's probably what they are going to do. The hype for the films will be enormous, in the same league as Phantom Menace, maybe even bigger. FOTR will make at least 200 million worldwide (If it "bombs"), but is more likely to make around 400-500 million. If the film delivers as well as we hope, it might cross 1 billion, but I doubt it. The sequels have a better change of crossing that much.
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To start i would like to say that i had no doubt that Jackson would be perfect for the job, i have yet to see a bad film by him!!! There are a few things i would like to comment on, for one HARRY HELLO!!!! I am an animator and as much as i appreciate that someone would compliment the complex and wonderful movement of a cg character, but the way you put it was something like, "he acted wonderfully" That is a CG character!!! I team of incredible animators had to make that single character "act" as wonderfully as he did......so please next time you do a review please try to at least make an attempt to throw a little respect the way of the people making those amazing fx that you were jizzing over!!! And this is a segway to the person that commented on being impressed that good fx could come out of nz!! Peter Jackson Studios has always been AMAZING!!!! I mean dating back to Heavenly Creatures! (if you never saw that movie GO WATCH it to see Jackson at his absolute finest!) that movie was pre-cg everything and it had some incredible fx (a lot of which based on the amazing acting and camera work!). Also take a look at the way under-rated Frighteners! The CG fx were so damn good and realistic and in a time when CG wasnt what a movie was all about that people totally discredited it!!! I mean this was a movie that had as much if not more digital post fx than Epi 1 and used to to such an advatage you didnt even think about the fact that every other scene was a bout of digital fx mastery!!! That is what fx are really supposed to be for!! to be masterfully melded into a movie and never even noticed....so if a company can do something like make people be transparent refractive ghosts.......or fully grown people into 3 foot hobbits and have it so believable you have to go see the actors in person to make sure they werent lieing about their height to begin with something right is being done!!!! Of course Peter Jackson Studios is basically like an elite club......if you havent been in the industry for about 10 years or more, need not apply....and shit after LOTR comes out it'll probably be even harder to get in! I really hope that by some act of major fate Peter Jackson decides to take on the oh so nearly impossible to make wonderful script of Weaveworld!!! I think he would be one of the only people to do it justice!! Of course if he would have the balls to take on a REAL challenge make Imajica!! and make it a trilogy (as the book was way too damn long and detailed to be one movie), it was split off into several parts.....Well at least Good Omens is coming out......so one of my fav books are on there way, but the thing that baffles me is that Clive Barker, in my opinion one of the greatest modern authors of our time has SOOO many incredible novels!! The Great And Secret Show (changed my life), Everville (incredible sequel), Weaveworld (script in the works!!!!!) and Imajica!! (his most epic work to date!) And yet with all these amazing pieces of art they make things like hellraiser (CRAP!!) and he gets major disrespect as a potential filmmaker.....and Tolken who is amazing YES!! i would never discredit him, but he has been out of the loop for many years!!!! Why not give some credit to the amazing authors that are around and still writing briliant works?????
ok rant done! -
Why am I being punished like this? Acrobat says "There was an error processing a page. There was an error opening this document" and won't open it! And there's no way to reason with Acrobat, you can't convince it to open the damn thing no matter what because it's LORD OF THE BLOODY RINGS and you just NEED to see it more than if it were a precious manuscript signed by Jesus, Buddha and Allah! Has anybody else encountered this problem? Please O please HELP!
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Miami mofo, you said you've read the first two potter books.. after reading the four of them, i've gotta say the first two were kinda weak... sure, i don't mind them, but when i went to re-read the series, i found myself skimming the first two to get to Azkaban and Goblet.. they are the Potter movies I'm waiting for. Harry's a little older, a little wiser.. a little more powerful, basically. the first movie's going to be a 'i can use magic, woopty-doo' movie, i think. Yes, i'll watch it, but i'm not expecting a cinematic masterpiece. Hopefully they'll keep making big budgeted Potter movies, a couple of years between each one and the same cast will result in the most recent movies having a more mature lead and supporting cast. It all fits in nicely. Hook the kids with the first couple, by the time they're making the movies where there's some death, blood and violence they can keep it all instead of censoring the crud out of it.
Okay.. so that this message is even nearly on topic, we want footage! somebody has to steal a copy, digitize it and get LOTR footage to the masses! -
Hi Pips_D, try to get the newest Acrobat Reader and it may work. There are some nice pics of the boys there for you :D
Penny: weird great stuff in the screening of 25-min footage. I still cannot believe they showed the BALROG and Frodo claiming the Ring. I don't know who decided that but I wonder what NL must think of it, it's probably a bit early to relase that.
Oh and about BO, I'd expect the whole 3 movies to make 2 bio worldwide appr. or a little bit more. That is 700 mio each, with obviously some variations between each of them (one at 500 and one at 900 is possible, go figure).
About Potter vs LOTR: it's no competition in US, both movies are 1 month away from the other, so in 4 weeks the Potter-mania will have flooded the theatreas and will then let the place to Tolkien without much trouble, Potter having gross some 200 mio in the process probably, or a bit more. There could be some direct competition, though, outside US, since LOTR is released worldwide, when Potter will be release just for Xmas in many european countries and possibly Japan. But well, it's holidays, if families cannot go to 2 movies when there... -
Damn I forgot to comment: he's not officially a speical guest like Harry, it seems. Only a few were officially invited, Harry, Joram, guys from TORN and John Forde I heard. Yet Greenie and some of his buddies from the French sites are there. Dunno if they'll be lucky to see the screening, but authorised sources confirm he's gone into the Castle itself and emt LOTR production people there today. Whether he'll make it to the party is unsure, but he met some cool guys from the movies there, as well as probably some journalists and webmasters.
Whatever, he'll make a report when he'll be back, I bet. -
Its true, I can fart God save the Queen.
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Jammy bastardos!
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Look people, to say that LOTR hype comes even close to TPM is utter garbage. I mean really! I hope it never does, look what hype did to TPM, and don't give me this TPM sucked bullshit. We all thought it was gonna be great right up until May, and I'm sure if they showed the Senate scenes, and the Pod Race at Cannes 1999 they would get the same reactions LOTR got. The facts are that so far LOTR hype is been BSd. The trailer downloads were crap, because everytime you wanted to see it you had to download it...I downloaded it 10 times that first day alone. Plus the official site's hit list is crap, I'd like to see those numbers compared to SW.com or even HarryPotter.com....the truth is LOTR fans are trying to emulate the TPM hype (the whole trailer camping out nonsense, and I'm sure some schmucks will camp out 1 month before)...just let the movies come!!!! Personally, having read both LOTR and Potter I know that these movies if done well have potential to be 400+ million dollar movies. Potter may have the edge though...the fanbase is fresher and more widespread....ok now bash away at my logically though unappealing (to you delusional peoples) opinions ... :)
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Ok- point 1. US money pays for the more popular films, and the US market is bigger, so why the hell shouldn't they have a bit of flag waving?(and Im english. the fuss made about U-571 over here was pathetic.)remeber, 99% of films are fiction, even if based on true stories.
point 2. Harry bloody Potter. Middle class english bollocks. very twee, harry and his chums, tea at 4 and all that cliched crap.ARGHHHH!!! Look at the facts. A school that teaches children to use gifts that set them apart, and even ostracise them from normal people. X-men? an english schoolboy inducted into the world of sorcery and magic. Niel Gaiman,s books of magic, any one?(even compare potters look to the lead character.) and obviously the US Author's book, Larry Potter and the Muggles. Far be it from me to suggest that Rowling is a rip off merchant, but there are disturbing coincidences (allegedley).
The biggest fear will be that people that are not nescessarily LOTR films will think that it is similar to Potter.
Point 3. LOTR. it looks likely that Peter Jackson will pull this off. Lets hope he does, cos it will earn him a place in cinema history. I am more excited than I was for epside 1, and Im a star wars fanatic. -
This will make a ludocrist amount of money.It will bury every other movie for weeks. It'll get at least 500 million in america(or more then titanic thats what i'm trying to say). Anyway try not to give too much away for people who have not finished the book yet. PSWB
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i remember seeing a animated hobbit movies years ago on cartoon network does anyone know where i can get it.
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It is possible that this was Ralph'Fritz the Cat'Bakshi's version of LOTR, which combined fellowship and the two towers- it was shot as Live action and then hand painted (Rotoscoping, although Im sure you know what rotoscoping is.This film made $70mill profit in 1978, and(trivia Fans) Tim Burton was one of the Cel Painters. An english mag (SFX- dont know if you get it in the US) recently did an excellent free giveaway on LOTR, and it has an interview with Bakshi.
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May 12, 2001 2:05:07 PM CDT
Go to the official site and download the press book! Awesome pic
by ar42
I actually gasped when I saw the shot of Galadriel. Damn, damn, damn... I'VE BEEN WAITING SINCE 1997!!! I CAN'T WAIT ANY MORE!!!!
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Remember, H Potter is kid's stuff. Period. LOTR is for adults and doesn't deserve the comparison. Movie-goers have been waiting for an event movie and this is it! You don't need a crystal ball to see the future. It will be the BIGGEST picture in cinema history. Mark the words of 'football' It will leave the Titanic firmly at the bottom of the ocean, and Harry Potter with a broom up his arse. But let's not forget that next year will be the year of Christopher Lee, making a demonic return as the key villian in Star Wars 2 (just like his screen buddy Peter Cushing in the very first Star Wars.) Remember, Lee's in both LOTR and SW2. What a cool comeback!!! Personally I can't wait to see this movie, and to think there's two more!!!
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WANT TO HEAR ABOUT QT's NEW MOVIE!!!! IS IT AT CANNES? IF NOT WHATS PLAYING?!?!?!?! HARRY! WHERES THE REVIEW, if not a review what played, any leads?
ANSWER ME PLEASE!!!!
.miT -
I meant to say $250 million in 10
weeks domestically(U.S.) My bad.
It could top Titanic, but that's
alot of ground to cover. I remember 2 years ago when the hype
machine surrounding Episode I had
it burying Titanic easily. Still,
$1 billion is nothing to sneeze
at. And Ep I had over a year and a half of hype that bordered on overkill. I've seen only bits and pieces including the theatrical trailer and from that I can tell one thing: LOTR will be the biggest box office smash this year. No doubt. I just hope
it lives up to the hype. But I'm not worried. So here's my last prediction. Total box office(Worldwide) at the end: $985 million. Snootch to the Nootch. -
TARANTINO YES or NO?
WAS/IS 40 LASHES at CANNES?
SOMEONE ANSWER ME!!!!!
I MUST KNOW, IM DYING!!! How can all of you dissmiss the news of a possible new QT film....ANSWERS!!!!!
.miT
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Domestic of course_________________1.- Pearl Harbor ($395 Million)_______________2.) Harry Potter ($300 Million)_______________3. Jurassic park 3 ($275 Million)__________4.- AI ($200 million)______________5.- Tomb Raider ($150 Million)_____________I've never been wrong with Box Office predictions. that's why I get paid the BIG BUCKS.
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I'm unfortunately not always as correct as the above poster but here it goes: 1.) The Lord of the Rings - $380 Million 2.) Harry Potter - $340 Million 3.) Pearl Harbor $265 million 4.) The Mummy Returns $215 million 5.) Jurassic Park 3 $200 million 6.) AI - $185 million 7. - 10. Possible a few childrens movies, Atlantis or Monsters Inc., then Hannibal might make it into the top ten or more probably Planet of the Apes. If Apes is PG-13 I say its #7 with about 170 million. That is all what do y'all think?
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I can't see what you guys are getting so worked up about. Doesn't look that impressive or interesting.
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And of course if fucking rocks. Why did Harry have to go to France to tell us that? He could have told us that from the bottle of a pitcher of beer in a bar in Austin. He didn't need to see a screening. Nor to any of you geek fanboys need to hear your messiah repeat what you already know. This movie fucking rocks. Now turn over your money and keep reciting the mantra. This movie fucking rocks. You want popcorn with that?
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You sound like a bunch of manic street preachers.I have not read the books nor do I intend to.I only hope it's half as good as The Frighteners and that Peter Jackson fulfills his potential as a filmmaker.
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LOTR opens in 19th December worldwide... so it only has 13 days (nearly two weeks) for box-office in 2.001... SO, it will score a little more than 250 million $ worldwide at the best (in 2.001).It will multiply this figures in 2.002.
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I'm tired of all these silly sons of bitches saying "I have no interest whatsoever in these movies. Fantasy will never make money. Oh and I've never read the books". Of course this hype doesn't make any sense to those who haven't read the books. Yes I think it will appeal to those who have not read them but to those of us who have this is a dream come true and any and every TBacker who shows extreme happiness at these reports has the right to. The books are that damn good. Now quit being illiterate and read the books. Read the Hobbit first though it gives good background. December can't come soon enough.
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May 13, 2001 7:53:13 AM CDT
You freaks don't know what the hell you're all trying to talk ab
by cooldoug
masse: Re: american audiences
"I myself am pretty tired of the kind of films that in several places show of the american
flag and are too patriotic."
Then you turn around and make my reply for me:
"If it does, I simply won't see the movie at all. Like The Patriot, Air Force One or Three Kings, there's no reason for me seeing theese films as I don't get them and doesn't understand what makes them popular..."
Very good. You're tired of it, DON'T SEE IT. Who forced you to sit and watch
American movies.
Di -
JK Rowlings is a dirty cheating plagiarist, taking the credit for another persons work, and what is more disgusting, she will more than likely be protected by the most successful lawyers available to protect the financial and crediblity of the film, thus deriving the true author of the success of her work.
Dont believe me, read and make your own decision, I got this a while back and have been waiting to post on a Potter forum but I became impatient, so I am giving it to you now.
'COPY' POTTER AUTHOR JK SUED
By MARK BOWNESS
HARRY POTTER author JK Rowling is being sued by a writer who claims the kids' hero is based on her character LARRY Potter.
American Nancy Stouffer says Rowling stole ideas and names for her books from her 1984 magical tale, The Legend Of Rah And The Muggles. And there ARE other amazing similarities between it and JK's series of books, which started in 1997 with Harry Potter And The Philosopher's Stone.
In the Harry stories Muggles are what wizards call humans. In Nancy's, Muggles are people who care for two orphans.
In JK's series there is a character called Lilly Potter, the dead mother of Harry. Nancy also has a character called Lilly Potter.
The Harry Potter series features a Keeper Of The Keys. The Legend Of Rah And Muggles has characters called Keepers Of The Gardens.
Harry Potter rides a broomstick called Nimbus. In The Legend Of Rah And Muggles there is a character called Nimbus who rides through the air on a horse.
JK's novels have a character called Neville. Nancy names lost Muggles Nevils.
Nancy, 50, says: "I think coincidences happen, but I still say if it looks like a duck and acts like a duck ... it's a duck."
Her book centres around little people in the Land Of Aura who care for two orphan boys, Rah and Zyn. The youngsters' arrival magically transforms the war-ravaged land into a place of sunshine and happiness.
The similarities between the books were pointed out to Nancy by a friend. She was appalled when she tried to get The Legend Of Rah And The Muggles republished in 1998. She was turned down by publishers who told her it was likely to be confused with the Harry Potter books.
Nancy claims JK, 35, may have come across her book while she was on a work study exchange in Baltimore in 1987-1988.
The Legend Of Rah And Muggles was a big enough hit in America for a range of of Muggles spin-offs such as dolls and fridge magnets. Her publisher even promoted them on Oprah Winfrey's talk show.
But JK, who wrote her first book in coffee shops while she was an unemployed single mum, insists SHE invented the word "muggles".
The writer, now worth -
If the Lord of the Rings trilogy actually becomes a landmark film experience, and grosses huge numbers world-wide, I think its a safe bet that fantasy based movies will suddenly flood the market. I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand I love well written fantasy novels and I think that Peter Jackson will prove that the right fantasy material in the hands of the right filmaker can make fantasy a viable film genre. But I fear that if Lord of the Rings is a commercial success alot of crap fantasy books will he rushed into film production. I shudder to think of the results... anyone remember Legend with Tom Cruise? How about the recent D&D movie? George Lucas' Willow was quite forgettable...
Now I know that alot of people who post here haven't read Lord of the Rings, and that's fine. But I would urge anyone even remotely intrested in the movies to give the books a try. One more thing. Want to know what the next *GREAT* landmark fantasy series is? George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire. This thing is unfreakinbelievable. I'm not kidding. The Lord of the Rings was once thought to be unfilmable, yet in six months those words will be put to rest. Now if some bloody brilliant person (PJ?) could find some way to bring George R.R. Martin's books to the screen... Oh man. They've got everything Hollywood likes, violence (make that EXTREME violence) and lots of sex, foul language, animated corpses... you name it. If LOTR was the preminent fantasy work of the previous generation, then A Song of Ice and Fire is *THE* fantasy epic for the next generation. In many ways these books are disturbing and coarse, but brilliant. Do yourself a favor, read em'. -
clips were shown from the two towers and from return of the king, and shelob may have been shown in some brief form, i mean they showed all the surprises except Gollum, so who the hell knows?
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Gandalf the Grey, did you pick up that American book with Larry Potter? I did just to see the similarites, and this "plagiarism" lies only within character names. Those Larry Potter books are terrible goofy books that star characters that resemble the teletubbies. It's really quite awful and bears 0 resemblance to Rowlings novels. If she did actually copy the names I couldnt care less. If she copied the story its different but she didn't. What is with the animosity towards Harry Potter? IT HAS GOTTEN PEOPLE TO READ AGAIN! I dont care what people say about the books, but the fact that Rowling has brought reading back into mainstream is much more important than if she copied some dumb names. Grow up people, I'd personally rather see people reading then spending money to go get brainwashed at most of the regular old shitty movies that are released. LOTR is a great book, its the best fantasy novel there is. Shouldnt fantasy fans embrace Harry Potter since it has brought fantasy back to our culture, something LOTR hasnt been able to do in the past 10 or so years. If anything Potter is helping LOTR, my family picked up LOTR because they loved Potter so much. Grow up people.
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I agree with the above poster. Kids of today don't read anymore and Harry Potter has saved a whole generation of readers. Kids who have never in their lives read a book are reading like hell now. After they have finished Potter books, they pick up LOTR. After a few years some of them are reading the likes of Kafka and Dostojevski. I thank Rowling for the great job she has done. BTW, Potter books are NOT kiddie books. Many, many adults read them as well. My friend who usually reads only scifi and appreciated literary classics is totally into Potter books, and he is 26. There are countless of people like him.
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Any news on 'Forty Lashes' or 'Apocalypse Redux'? Enquiring minds want to know.
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British newspaper The Sunday Times (generally reliable even if it IS owned by Rupert Murdoch)ran an article today on LOTR. The hack seemed to have been to the press screening. He described the Balrog as "a sixty foot tall winged demon" whose skin emits flames and smoke. I'm sorry to see that this talkback, which should be a joyous occasion, has been slightly spoiled by two or three cretinous Americans who saw offense where none was intended.
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...why don't you boost a Rooster up your ass?!?
You don't decide what is "cretinous" or "offensive"- we do. And you're filling the bill for both particulars.
And if you're counting on an AICN talkback to be a "joyous occasion", you need other emotional outlets.
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May 13, 2001 12:24:50 PM CDT
The Green Giant is is this?!? HO HO HO fucking far out!
by critical bill
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May 13, 2001 12:27:33 PM CDT
By the way, American film goers are, by and large, a bunch of la
by critical bill
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I have never read any JRRT before. But you people all talk about him like he is a god or something. I have read a ton of books and am now being introduced to the Fantasy world. And by far and away it kicks the ass of all the other types of books I have read. I started with the Sword of Shannara by Terry Brooks and that leveled me, it was amazing. I am now in the proccess of reading the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan which is really mind blowing. They are probably two of the better authors I have read. But my question is in my subject: Is J.R.R.T. that friggin good?
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RINGWRAITH: Knock it off, stop being an idiot.
Critical Bill: Wrong. We have critics in America too. And guess what, some
of them are lame assholes who are proud of the fact they eat truffle pate
like your French critics too. Forget about the fact the the world prefers American
films by and large YOU DICK.
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All I want for Christmas is a front row seat. . . .
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May 13, 2001 12:47:19 PM CDT
Spider Devil might be The Watcher, but it itsn't the Balrog
by red giant
Read the British Sunday Times:
http://services.searchuk.com/0000003/ct.cgi?cid=0000003&url=http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2001/05/13/stinwenws03022.html&search=%22lord+of+the+rings%22&r=1&domain=sti§ion=nwe&subsection=nws&date=13/05/2001
From the article:
"Desperate adventures continued in the second clip, which showed Frodo and his group travelling through the labyrinthine Mines of Moria. There they encounter a grotesque, octopus-like colossus called The Watcher, which has one eye. There are attacks by orcs, which look as if they have been dragged from graves, and a scene in which a rock staircase collapses above a terrifying fall of hundreds of feet.
The group also has to flee Balrog, a 40ft-high winged demon whose skin crackles with fire and smoke. "
The Balrog is 40-ft, not 60. It doesnt' remotely resemble a spider. The Watcher resembles an octapus, maybe closer to "Spider Devil". FOr all we know, there is yet another creature in that scene which is spider-like. This movie is full of wild CG creaturees, and will be huge.
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....???
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....??? c'mon......
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(yawn)
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I am looking forward to thoes two than LOTR. I had high hopes for LOTR till I saw the traier. Its impossible to match the depth and beauty of the book. From the looks of the teaser, it looks like shit to me.
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By the time you plough thru Jordan and Brooks, a lot of the elements of Tolkien will seem very familiar. Read the master first. Actually I'm probably too close to LOTR to be objective on how "good" it is (I've been rereading it off and on for 15 years). However, the worldwide consensus seems to be that it *is* that good. Ranking artworks is a fool's game anyway. Someone in a previous talkback claimed George Lucas was "better" than Tolkien because Lucas is a top 10 filmaker (apparently) and Tolkien is not a top-10 20th century novelist (again, in this guy's NSHO. I *think* he was being serious). So if Hemmingway and Faulkner hadn't been born, Tolkien might be as good as Lucas? Yeah, that makes sense...Anyway, if you can excise WOT from your memory before reading Tolkien, you will be truly blown away by LOTR. (I notice from the Cannes presspack PDF that New Line have similarly excised Bakshi's version. Quote: "Until now Tolkien's Middle-Earth has existed only in the imaginations of readers and in the wondrously detailed yet limited illustrations for the novels." So Bakshi's version never happened. Thank God for that!).****Re The Balrog: I suppose I can accept a Balrog that's going into battle with an istari sprouting shadowy wings and expanding to 40 feet tall, *as long as it doesn't fly*. Everyone knows Balrogs don't fly. ;)
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May 13, 2001 2:56:44 PM CDT
RED GIANT- you might be cool- but you stretched the fucking talk
by sir mordred
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....ha ha...sorry...just had to start off by saying that...I guess it's kind of a thankless job...going into a talkback with raving LOTR fans, only to tell us that JRR is a hack....well..what do you expect? Love and support? a pat on the back for your cleverness?..this may be a surprise smartass, but we aren't as you would say "dungeonmasters and Renaissance Fair rejects". Comparing Lucas and JRR is a fools game anyhow, and like the last talkbacker, I don't think you even did a credible job at it. Thanks for coming out tho...don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out...
buh bye...
oh..P.S. I've been waiting for ages to read the postings for the Cannes showing..and AICN once again has delivered the goods....wow..not since the "Geeks holiday" reports have i been this excited to read the reports...cheers to job well done!!! -
...first of all, what are these lists you keep referring to? Where are they printed? If these are your own personal lists then your making an argument about personal taste, which is pointless. By what measure do you rate Lucas as one of the greatest filmmakers? Popularity? Critical acclaim? Awards? If your talking popularity, them surely Tolkien must be rated amongst the greats. And after all isn't popularity the only tenable measure by which entertainers can be compared?
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I was scrollin' down these talkbacks and I saw your name and I said, "There's my friend!" See, I think you're confusing opinions with facts. If we're going to compare George Lucas to J.R.R. Tolkien, why don't we compare them to Richard Pryor or Houdini or Windsor McKay as well (actually, you sort of could compare 'em to McKay). I mean, who does these rankings, T.V. Guide? You? Most critics aren't going to give either guy a fair shake because they're fantasists. If you made a list of the top 100 fantasists, including all media, of the last 100 years, I'm sure both guys would be on it. Personally, I'd place Tolkien higher on the list because I feel his work is more complex, better thought out and I'm more partial to the written word and you can see his influence all over STAR WARS. You're right, Lucas is by no means a derivative hack, although he has seen far better days. I feel Lucas' work belongs in the pulp fiction tradition, the space opera, while Tolkien is literature. You're blowing a gasket right now, but I don't mean that as an insult to Lucas. Coming from me, pulp fiction and space opera are compliments of the highest order. But you know, people love Danielle Steel but they'd be foolish to say she's greater than or Jane Austen or to even put them on the same field of comparisan. I'm stating my opinions here, which is where I differ from you. You call your opinions fact. Obviously, you really like Lucas. I haven't seen anyone but you write about Lucas vs. Tolkien. Until now, most people haven't commented because it's so stupid and childish. I on the other hand can't pass up a chance to comment on the stupid and childish. It's a non-issue. It could be fun. I could see debating this shit over beers with someone with a sense of irony. As far as I can tell, you're not being ironic when you quote Gore Vidal and then mention the homoerotic elements of TOP GUN in the same talkback. Develop your irony, Jelper. Become a worthwhile person while there's still time.
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I think what jelper is saying...well, strike that. i dont know exactly what he thinks. i think, however, that tolkein was a great story teller but not necessarily one of the greatest writers. id say the same of lucas. brilliant story ideas that capture the imagination, but not the best film maker. in the end its only that they capture your imagination that counts and thats why so many love both LOTR and star wars. i still dont get why some have to slam robert jordan whenever mentioning tolkein. as if living in a world where there was tolkein and no others would be satisfying. i know one person who tried reading jordan and didnt like it because it was too detailed. i know several people who didnt finish LOTR because they thought it boring. i can see both arguments but im lucky enough to enjoy both. hell, i waited 2 years for path of daggers and was frustrated at the end cause nothing happened. and ive read up to the two towers a couple of times and not bothered with return of the king till a few months later. both authors frustrate me, but theyre both damn good. i wish tolkein was as detailed as jordan. i wish his battles werent just a bunch of orcs......and theyre all driven off or killed. i wish half the main characters were interesting women. i wish i knew more about gandalf. i wish i knew if the balrog had wings or not! but thats tolkein and i enjoy him NOT being jordan. tolkein sits on your bed and gives you something to dream about. jordan welcomes you to class and gives you an encyclopedia of history. luckily i love them both. and terry brooks... well, he aint tolkein or jordan but i still finished his books with a smile. my hair standing on end when that demon was pursuing the elven hunters through the forest with morning rain still dripping off the trees is still one of my fondest reading memories.
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May 13, 2001 10:56:51 PM CDT
Jelper, I took your point, it's just that it was a fatuous one
by wilko185
This reply is a bit redundant in view of the above posts, but here goes...You may as well just be saying "books are better than films", since your argument seems to amount to the fact that there are more good writers than good film-makers, so it's harder for authors to earn a position on your coveted top-100 list. I don't think anyone's suggestng LOTR has more literary merit (of which everyone has there own definition anyway of course) than, say Joyce's Ulyssess, or any other of the last century's "classics". IMO Tolkien spins a better yarn though. But the Lucas comparison is just pointless. If we ignore the hundred or so writers you have ranked above Tolkien on your private list, can we then objectively compare Lucas and Tolkien (even ignoring the fact that film-making is a collaborative process anyway)? Well I don't really see how, except (as stated above) in a popularity contest. I don't have any figures to back this up (and can't be bothered finding any) but I would think that at least as many people have read and enjoyed Tolkien as have seen the Star Wars films (I'm assuming you're basing Lucas's claim to greatness on SW). I personally never really got into SW much (though I like it well enough). But as millions of people see something in it I don't, and derive pleasure and meaning from it, I respect that, and don't call Lucas a talentless hack. You must be very sure of the omniscience of your critical judgement to dismiss the most popular author of the century. I don't expect anyone here to admit they were wrong (a phenomenon I have yet to see in a TB), just that you consider the possibility that millions of readers and critics aren't deluding themselves about Tolkien. Why not try learning something about him? You may find, for instance, that your charge of unoriginality is missing the *whole point* of LOTR(well, not the *whole* point, but anyway...). Yes, Middle-Earth wasn't just made-up, but was based on other, older, myths and legends. Tolkien was writing in a tradition. In fact I suspect Tolkien would not have considered himself a "novelist" as LOTR is written in a different, older, mode, and so this whole novel-comparison discussion is even more ridiculous. (BTW do you get much support in Star Wars TBs if you claim Lucas is better than Hemingway?)****Re Jordan: I may have started the current round of "slamming" in a recent TB (on the Nazgul pic I think). However I confess I actually like reading The Wheel of Time. It just suffers from too close a comparison with Tolkien in most people's opinions. Considered in isolation Jordan is a very good story-teller.
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Ackk! just read through my my last post. That prose style is almost as annoying to read as Harry's (must try to curb this in future).
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Just looked at what Jelper said in the forum: "LOTR is to Scandinavian myth what Oasis is to the Beatles, Whitesnake was to Led Zeppelin, and what Battlestar Galactica was to Star Wars: A CHEESY LOW-RENT RIP-OFF!" Bwahahaha! His post in this thread almost made sense, so I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. However, this confirms my opinion that he doesn't have a clue.***I've just thought-the point when I started to be really hopeful about the film project was when I heard about the tatoos that the actors playing the 9 walkers were going to get. It just made it seem that the cast must really believe that what they were doing was going to be special. Did they all get them (including McKellan and Sean Bean)?. Just wondered, as I haven't heard anything about this since Harry reported it.*** Sir Mordred, if you're still there. I only get the TB stretched out in Netscape (and Opera). Sorry to say IE is now becoming my browser of choice these days.
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May 14, 2001 12:51:17 AM CDT
On Wheel of Time and the stature of Tolkien in literature.
by andy travis
First off, my opinion of The Wheel of Time books: Take LOTR and Dune, mix well, and you have Robert Jordan's "epic", which is really only epic in sheer length.
As far as comparing Tolkien to Hemmingway or Nabokov or Joyce, why even bother? You're just pissing in the wind. They are clearly not all out to write the same thing. Why in the hell compare The Hobbit to Lolita, for example? I love them both, but they don't resemble the other in THE SLIGHTEST. -
According to Warner Roadshow, the film's distributor in Greece, it will go out on the same day everywhere. Until then relax and get a life! But I bet it will do BIG box office
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Sorry but after messing up his Origianl trilogy and then bringing out the shit that is TPM The LORD OF THE RING is going to sink Lucas and E2 is so going to BoMB compared to this.
LUCAS THIS IS HOW A TRILOGY SHOULD BE MADE. -
May 14, 2001 4:58:44 AM CDT
Ah, the inevitable "Star Wars vs. LOTR" rears it's ugly head.
by andy travis
Get over it.
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May 14, 2001 5:07:13 AM CDT
Didn't read the book either but I do remember a cartoon on Tv wh
by brooklyn bred
Anybody remeber it as well? I think Bashki did it. Not entirely sure but anyway the movie sounds like it mave save the summer because if it's left up to the Mummy it will be a 'cruel-cruel summer.' (Bangels song. Ah 80's Nostalgia, dem days wus the best!)
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I have to wonder just what people are thinking of when they write dismissive notices about Howard Shore. I mean, this guy did Naked Lunch and contributed one of about two few good elements in Crash, for Pete's sake, and Silence of the Lambs' score certainly wasn't bad. I'm going to run over to IMDB and see if he handled The Contender or something equally repugnant...
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Could someone please pass him some tissues? His hands are "soiled." *** Netscape at work, too stretched out to continue. Like butter scraped over too much bread. See ya next TB.
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I don't know about the rest of y'all, but of course I pay attention to Jelper. I always stare at those people in the street that you're not supposed to stare at. Also, when the Jehovah's Witnesses come to my door, I talk to 'em. I tell 'em how, in 1914, on the day that the first JW guy started the shit and announced the apocalypse, Jack Parsons was born. I also like to set in on trials.
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Let's organize a "set in" in the dean's office to get Robert Downey Jr. free.
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That was BANANARAMA, not THE BANGLES. Time to go listen to FLOCK OF SEAGULLS and get through the rest of this Manic Monday...
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This all sounds too familiar to me. Prior to Lynch's Dune, all we heard was how spectacular it was going to be. Photos of the character & set design sent waves of excitement throughout sci-fi fandom. Attach an acclaimed director and a staggering budget and we were looking at a sure-fire hit. Not to mention the fact that it was based on one of the most popular sci-fi novels ever written. LOTR will suffer from the same problems that plagued each of the Dune versions. There is an excess of story that cannot be translated to the screen. One of two outcomes is possible: First, the film is a actual literal translation of the book in which case it will be difficult, if not impossible for the average viewer to follow (remember the dictionary that came with paid admittion to the original Dune?); Or, story will be cut or reworked which will inevitably irritate the die-hard fans and alienate the core audience.
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So, to fantasy readers everywhere: Somebody posted here that the George R.R. Martin books are great. And to that I say, emphaticly, YES, they are.
They are SOOO good in fact, that after reading the three written of six planned, I haven't been able to read lesser books since.
I think they would make a good 4-year weekly television show.
The poor guy who just discovered fantasy and who has "The Elfstones of Shannara" or whatever it is in your head: Get your head flushed. Terry Brooks, while probly a warm and decent human, really ripped old J.R.R. Tolkien off, or else paid tribute to his works. LoTR is a much more satisfying read.
TO DRU MCQ. Thanks for your intelligent comments. I want to add to your list. A LOT - is two words just like A LITTLE.
Where does JRR T. stand in the ranks of literaturists? That is a totally irrelevent question. He was simply a storyteller telling a story with a mythos so he could find a world to house his made up languages in.
I do NOT think reading the book is mandatory to enjoy the movie and in a way I wish I hadn't read them yet so that I could be more...surprised by the twists of the film's plot instead of being surprised by the look of a castle.
I actually enjoy reading these posts and I think some of you are pretty clever/intelligent/funny while some of you post things worthy of scorn, which is always freely given.
Harry Potter is good adolescent literature but I LOVED Susan Cooper's "Dark Is Rising Series" and the Lloyd Alexander "Book Of Three" series which Disney sodomized in their single worst cartoon ever,
"The Black Cauldron." -
"This all sounds too familiar to me. Prior to Lynch's Dune, all we heard was how spectacular it was going to be. Photos of the character & set design sent waves of excitement throughout sci-fi fandom. Attach an acclaimed director and a staggering budget and we were looking at a sure-fire hit. Not to mention the fact that it was based on one of the most popular sci-fi novels ever written. LOTR will suffer from the same problems that plagued each of the Dune versions."
One problem with that statement; Lynch was all wrong for Dune, he had never heard of the book until he was tapped to do it. For Peter Jackson this is a labour of love, he is very familiure with the LoTR books.
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David Lynch is certainly a selective director. We can't assume that Dune was not a labor of love for him. The fact that he only read the book shortly before agreeing to direct does not invalidate his passion for the material. It's the scope of the material that is the problem. An over-abundance of strange creatures with strange names living in strange locations can become tiresome as can an over-abundance of visual effects.
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I'm surprised no one's mentioned Raymond Fiest. The Riftwar Saga is oddly compelling (enough that I've re-read it a couple of times) and is action-oriented enough to translate to film well -- if LOTR sparks an interest in more fantasy, this may well be a good source for more films based on books.
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The problem with translating Dune to the screen has always been that so much of the story is based on characters' thoughts and motivations. LOTR doesn't suffer the same problem because it relies more on dialouge and its descriptive passages relate to the visible nature around the characters, not (often) characters' thoughts.
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The Harry Potter movie should be fun. The books have some inexplicable charm to them, and everything we've seen so far indicates that that charm is being brought to life on screen. There's no reason to pit HP against LOTR (same goes for SW-EP2)... ain't any of you ever heard of an *appetizer*, for cryin' out loud? Go see HP in November for some fun, cute, un-serious fantasy (the appetizer), then start skipping work to hold a place in line for LOTR (the main course). Simple, isn't it?
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If Peter Jackson decides he doesn't like Shore's work, I think a great second choice would be legendary composer Jerry Goldsmith. He has written great scores for so many mediocre films that if he got his hands on what looks to be a real winner he would write some amazing stuff to be sure. He also works great under pressure! I hope Shore comes through with the goods though, as I think he has a unique voice.
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....up thar somwhers, but whar in Udun are the rest-o-the Tolkien Knuckleheads?! Seen that delightful Hobbit lass Pip's D a couple-o-TBs ago; where ye been M'lady? Anyway, the fasleggit life is still running me raggit so I thought I'd pop in fer just a minnet to post some links to some GREAT LOTR Cannes coverage that Jonathan over at Tolkien Online: SPOILERS Cannes Day Two: Lord of the Rings Footage Recap... oh man.
http://www3.tolkienonline.com/docs/2599.html Orlando Bloom/Liv Tyler Interview
http://www3.tolkienonline.com/docs/2597.html McKellen, Lee, Rhys-Davies Interview
http://www3.tolkienonline.com/docs/2596.html (Hope I didn't stretch out the TB... ACK!) I just KNOW I'm gonna git hit by a bus or sumpthin before Dec 19 rolls around! Namarie Mellyn, an' Trubba Not, Skyway's on th' road... SM{;-0
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1) Tolkein cannot be considered a hack merely because he borrowed from myth. Check The Golden Bough by James Frazier (one of the books at Mista Kurtz's bedside by the by) for cross cultural/religion archetypes.
2) The Worm Ouroboros is a damn fine piece of fantasy that pre-dates LOTR, and it too takes advantage of archetypal characters.
3) Rowling is not a GREAT author. In no way should her books thus far be compared to Tolkein, Lewis, Eddison, Susan Cooper, or Lloyd Alexander. (now what about a DARK IS RISING adaptation, or a BLACK CAULDRON done proper-like...hmmm??) It is great that her books are getting kids to read, but in no way are these 'classics,' and i have read ALL of them. They are amsuing, extremely readable, and good fun: THIS DOES NOT MAKE THEM GREAT LIT!!! In no way do they hae the scope and majesty of their forebearers...i guess what i am trying to say is: J.K. Rowling is to JRRT as John Grisham is to Thomas Pynchon (can anyone imagine Gravity's Rainbow on the screen!). This said, i do get the feeling that she is progressing into deeper territory now.
4) Who gives a fuck how much a movie makes? If it's a damn fine movie, it's a damn fine movie.
5) Liverpool will take the Champions League. No doubt.
peas out. -
Tolkien didn't make Modern Library's top 100? Well I went to the Randomhouse website (http://www.randomhouse.com/modernlibrary/100best/novels.html). He didn't make the 'Board' list which consists of books by the likes of Joyce and Salman Rushdie (and is voted for by such people as Gore Vidal and, er Salman Rushdie). However, Tolkien snuck in at number 4 on the 'Reader's' list. It seems Tolkien can please all the people all of the time, but there's just no pleasing some people. Jelper's right though, that these lists are fairly meaningless, though the fact that Tolkien *consistently* is voted near the top by book-readers (as opposed to critics) gives me a warm glow inside. Battlefield Earth appearing above LOTR in the ML list leaves me feeling a bit sick and disorientated though....still, it's only a list.
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May 14, 2001 7:41:25 PM CDT
Lucas was heavily influenced by Tolkien, by his own admission
by antoniusbloc
Lucas said himself that he was influenced by LOTR when writing Star Wars. Give me a break, it's blatantly obvious anyway. No you can't compare novelists to filmmakers, but you can compare the story of LOTR to Star Wars and understand that Tolkien's story is a much deeper and superior story. Of course Tolkien didn't make the Modern library's list...Tolkien's story is just the type of story modern intellectual elites despise, but when a book is the second best selling in one century, that says a lot more about an impact of a story on people, as opposed to what high box office sales tell us. I agree that such lists are wothless. The fact is, Tolkien has influenced countless number of stories, books, and movies that have followed.
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Hey now, don't take that other response to you as gospel! I myself read The Wheel of Time before LOTR and I don't feel it detracted from LOTR at all (unfortunately I'm not exactly objective here either, I recognize the merits of Tolkeins' writing but I didn't really enjoy it, much like my feelings towards Barton Fink, it just didn't pull me in). After reading LOTR I was actually rather amazed at the amount of homages to Tolkeins' work in the WOT, but they are quite well done so that hasn't detracted from my enjoyment of the WOT either. Bottom line I guess is that it doesn't really matter, in my opinion, which is read first, just trying to counterbalance that other tb'er.--Ahh, jelper speaks again, I'd respond to him, but he's already left this tb, doesn't matter though, he can probably guess my position.
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Jelper, all I have to go on is your word that Harry said Lucas ripped off Tolkien. Not the most credible source, although our boy has been known to go overboard in his enthusiasm so I wouldn't completely discount it. Most likely, he said that Lucas was HEAVILY influenced by Tolkien which he was. It's funny that you talk about fanboys, because you are without a doubt the biggest fanboy I've ever seen when it comes to George Lucas. The guy has only directed four films. In my opinion, two were great, one was a first professional effort that lead to better things, and one was well made but needed a better script. If anything, Lucas' biggest influence on film is technical. You blindly believe all of George's revisionist biography: that he was into mythology because he was some sort of anthropology nut. He took the required classes at Modesto City College and transferred to USC on the strength of racing footage he'd shot that Haskell Wexler had seen. His films were abstract and almost purely visual until he had Willard Huyck, Gloria Katz and Richard Walter write AMERICAN GRAFFITI for him. They made up the characters, whom he soon claimed were versions of himself. Seeing the power of narrative and warmth in a film, he returned to science fiction, inspired by old serials, comic books, the fantasy and science fiction novels that were big with the hippy types (DUNE and LORD OF THE RINGS), and Kurosawa movies. Until George Miller hepped him to Joseph Conrad, well after EMPIRE, Lucas never talked about specific myths. After Conrad (A.C.) Lucas and Miller both seemed to descend into this cut and paste storytelling. Professor Joe says you gotta have a weird little character help the hero on his journey here, so meet Wicket, etc.Lucas no longer trusts his feelings. Ultimately, I'm hoping that the STAR WARS saga won't turn out to be about Anakin Skywalker's redemption but George Lucas'.
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Is this like the longest TB ever? I'm so encouraged by the reviews and unanimous praise from those who saw the footage. Can breath easy and sit back and wait the 7 months out a little easier. On the subject of books to movies how about Dragonlance. Not great works of literature perhaps in terms of the way they're told but a fantastic tale that I think would translate well to film (although would be hideously expensive to produce effectively). I found Wheel of Time boring to be honest, especially the bickering between the woman (not to be sexist or anything). Have tried twice and can't get passed the fourth book.
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Dune runs 137-190 minutes depending on the version. LOTR will run from 360 to 540 minutes depending on the lenght of the movies. So PJ has a lot more of time to tell his story.
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May 15, 2001 5:52:14 AM CDT
And, and, and, and then, there's this, this, this dungeon, and i
by heywood jablomie
...........................Geeks!
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Nothing beats Turkeywood!
www.viceland.com/issues/v8n1/htdocs/turkeywood.html
http://steelmill.homestead.com/Steelmill7thH.html -
Do not characterize Americans as interested only in slick production and 30 second bytes and i will not characterize the french as cheese eatin surrender monkeys.
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May 15, 2001 7:19:06 AM CDT
Remember it is not an epic unless it was shot in Cinemascope.
by declan_swartz
PJ should have shot in Cinemascope. It is the one constant that helps John Carpenter's films.
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Ernie B-9 sed:
"David Lynch is certainly a selective director. We can't assume that Dune was not a labor of love for him. The fact that he only read the book shortly before agreeing to direct does not invalidate his passion for the material."
Well, it goes along way. Fact of the matter is that in his own words Lynch said that he knew nothing about Dune, didn't really care about Dune, was NOT a sci fi fan, and only took the job becuase he needed the gig. That to me says it was NOT a labour of love, above and beyond the fact that he hadn't read the book before taking on the project. What was your opinion of his Dune? A fine peice of work? You're in a minority.
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I believe that my feelings about Lynch's Dune are clear in my first post. Here is an excerpt from a November 1984 Waldenbooks interview with Lynch & Herbert that clarifies that he did read the book:
Lynch - "...the day I finished reading the book, I met with Dino in his office, and I was so high from finishing the book, and so thrilled with, you know, what I had read, I signed on. And I didn't really know that it was going to be 3 and a half of this type of year, but I'll let Frank tell you what he thinks..." I would also add that Nick Meyers directed arguably the best Star Trek film (Wrath of Kahn)even though he had never seen an original episode before taking the gig. My point is that passsion for the material does not guarantee the final result. -
Heh heh...
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May 15, 2001 1:14:21 PM CDT
Gandalf the Gray, I agree and here's some further info
by twan_deeth_ree
I read a small snippet from JKRowling stating what her plans are for the next book. She said one of the main characters was going to be an american rocket scientist named John Parsons who lives in California who is also secretly a wizard who tries to incarnate a "moonchild". Well, there really was a Jack Parsons who was one of the leading physicists in the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in the 40's and 50's. He was also very involved in the occult, he was the leader of the Agape Lodge of Aleister Crowley's Ordo Templi Orientis. He and L. Ron Hubbard apparently made an attempt to bring about the "Babalon Working" which would supposedly bring forth a new age on earth and incarnate a "moonchild". Seems to go way beyond cooincidence. Go read the book Sex and Rockets by John Carter with an intro by Robert Anton Wilson. Oh, you might as well read everything else RAW has written as well while you're at it.
Back on subject, I am very excited about the upcoming LoTR movies as well, but for any of you to be so sure it is going to "rock" or "suck" seems to indicate a much higher level of psychic ability in the geek population than in the general public. I think you'd all give Miss Cleo a run for her money. -
This was, clearly, one of the most indecipherable, incomprehensible, worthless "news" posts I've ever seen at AICN. Go back and read this dreck again and tell me what it means. Keep up the good work!
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..Galadriel has a tiny one. After a few thousand years anyone's head would start to shrink.
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I am such a geek that I also have that David Lynch/Frank Herbert interview tape. I'm a major Lynch fan. He did that tape to support the movie, but he's since said that the only reason he took DUNE was to make a deal with the De Laurentis Co. to make BLUE VELVET. He had even less clout at the time than he does now, so he was looking for a high profile gig. Believe it or not, he had to choose between DUNE and RETURN OF THE JEDI and rightly, I believe, thought that he could make DUNE more of his own film. I feel about the DUNE books like I feel about LORD OF THE RINGS. I read 'em when I was young, I liked 'em but that's it. It seemed like all the hard core DUNE fans thought Lynch wasn't faithful to the book. I thought he was too faithful. I would have liked to have seen what Ridley Scott and H.R. Giger would have done with it.
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LOTR has been called the "Book of the Century" for good reason. While I can't wait to see the movie, reading the book was one of the most enjoyable experiences I can recall. To cheat yourself out of the experience because you're waiting for the movie would be a pity. Besides, Jackson's attention to detail seems to be so great that reading the book may just enhance the experience -- every Orc and Hobbit hole will have that much more meaning to you when you see it on screen.
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Brian 2000 - the DUDE quit reading Harry Potter after 3 chapters - now, after reading your synopsis - the DUDE KNOWS he'll never read the damn thing. JELPER - You're a fucking idiot. Tolkien wasnt top 100? What, but his book WAS voted number ONE? Do the math, Einstien. ----- Notice to all NON USA type peoples - would you please just get the freaking chip OFF your shoulder. I'm sorry you weren't born in the USA - now get over it already. ---- AS FOR WHETHER OR NOT TO READ LOTR - that depends. The DUDE asks: do you like reading better than watching movies? If you never read anything but lame ass Potter books, then pass LOTR - it'll be over your head. ----- And finally - to the philistine that said "reading the book will ruin the movie" - that has to be the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard. Hey, and you know what else? - reading will also ruin your chances of turning into a dumbass.
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Anybody knows who is the composer of the LOTR's OST ?
Is he Hans Zimmer?
Why there is a fragment of Hans Zimmer's OST "The Power of One" at the end of the second Trailer of the LOTR Movie?
Thankyou....
Reply @ :luistoyos@hotmail.com -
Jul 23, 2001 6:20:19 AM CDT
You REALLY don't expect a response this late in a talkback do yo
by matrix_sux
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I doubt any of you know me since I never came to this site before, but I read everything on this topic and I have things to say. You can not compare a filmaker to a writer and that is that. One person commented that Jordan gives you every little detail and Tolkien does not. Well my only guess to a statement like that is that you think Tolkien only wrote the Lord of The Rings. Tolkien actualy has I believe 9 seperate books now just on the history of middle earth. Also in the fifth book of the history of middle earth you can learn a language.
From what I have seen the movies look to be all huge hits. Most of which Return of The King seeing as how it is what everyone will want to see as fast as they can and not wait till it comes out on video. What I am waiting for and most eager to slam however will be the 4 games released by sierra studios. This puts the most fear into me because I know games and which companies make which games good. Sierra has never to my knowledge produces a good rpg/adventure game or dealt with orcs, hobbits, wizards, and other mythical characters. In my opinion I think the games will be bigger than the movies as for world wide popularity if done right. However I would preffer a seperate game made by blizzard (creators of diablo, war craft, and star craft) that was more of a you chose what race you want to be and you get to live in middle earth and interact with other kill, steal, make friends, and such. One not following a story to which you know the ending.
The sadness about this whole thing is the movie is never as good as the book. They will be cutting out things that made the book fun and interesting for time allowances. I also do not see how a balrog can climb up the lost path in moria when he is 40 feet tall. One other thing WTF is up with Arwen she is like 8 feet tall.
I myself do not want to see or read anything by rawlings because I am 17 not 8. Maybe I would have liked it when I was 8 who knows. This movie also is not Star Wars it has a lot of dialogue and combat with dialogue I don't want huge loud ass orchestra music to take away from the story. The movie needs background music that goes with the tone of the point of the story and is BACKGROUND MUSIC NOT FUCKING MUSIC THAT MAKES IT SO YOU HAVE TO GIVE IT ATTENTION!
Aside from the great bard Tolkien is by far in my mind the greatest writer of all times because he is the most creative. Star Wars is a plotless piece of crap and should not be compared to such a masterful work of art as the Lord of The Rings.
I usualy hate movies that are just special FX so my living in america means I don't go to the theator often. I know many british and canadian people but not many french. I don't like people from other countries because they are filled with bitterness and hate for america pourely out of jealousy.
To all of you europeans who badmouth america Tolkien wrote these novels mainly for americans. -
Reading this still makes me smile, excellent job :D
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To the future, Sir Loin. Awesom! And look at all the vanished TalkBackers of old. Kind of sad, really.Web TV! Hah!
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With an 'e'.
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Here's to Web TV! *clink!*
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