Cool News
Will A Secret Quentin Tarantino Film Play Unannounced At Cannes' Minor extra clues...
Hey folks, Harry here... The following rumor is possibly insane and unbelievable... And I'm not going to say I believe it... but there is circumstantial evidence and whispers to kinda back this up. First, here's the alleged rumor:
Also, a guy I know who works at (Harry Deleted The Name Of Company To Protect The Guilty) says that... and this is
something I had trouble believing, but if its true it will be huge... is
that Tarantino made a western called "Forty Lashes" that will be a
surprise announcement at Cannes. It was shot and edited in secret and is now in the can and will be shown there. IF you end up not printing this
and it turns out true, be ready for several million I told you so's and
some serious gloating.
SeaweedHarry here again... Now this is likely bunk... as a matter of fact I'd say that there is about a 5 & 11/23% chance that this scoop is reliable, but... well here ya go... 1. Seaweed has been a good spy and informant in the past. 2. Tarantino was seen in Catorce, Mexico in the Sierra Madres by crew members of THE MEXICAN... noone knew why he was there. For the last two years... other than when Quentin showed up in Austin... he's been amazingly off the radar... his movements untracked... his habits unfollowable. Back a year and a half ago there were rumors that Quent was shooting in Mexico and in Africa, but no one could get confirmations and when people I knew were asked.... they seemed to be completely confused and shocked that someone would suggest such a thing.
Is it possible in today's Internet... spy over every shoulder... world to shoot a film that no one knows is shooting? Actually... Yes. It is possible. Example? Okay, everyone knew that Richard Linklater was shooting WAKING LIFE... his "cartoon" film... but at the same time or slightly after or before, he shot a film called TAPE... No one I knew knew anything about it until Sundance announced their line-up and Linklater had two films in instead of one.
In addition... Quentin has been spending a great deal of his time in New York City instead of Los Angeles... Now there could be many reasons for this... Perhaps he developed a taste for the town after he did Broadway for those months a while back... Maybe he found a beautiful New York Kitten and couldn't stay away... Maybe he likes a city that never sleep... But there could be another reason. Perhaps... Just perhaps, Tarantino has been locked up in some secret room somewhere that Bob and Harvey Weinstein own doing post for the last 4 months... Maybe that's why he had to leave SXSW abruptly this year... Maybe there's something to all this...
But like I said, I think it's bullsh*t. I think it isn't true, but there's a chance, narrow and unlikely... The sort of thing that creates legends... There are very few filmmakers that I think can do a below radar big film. Luc Besson, James Cameron, Richard Linklater and Quentin Tarantino. Why? Because I have confidence they can do it.
The last bit I heard on this was waaaaaay back in 1999 from Kiowa Scout:
AICN fave Quentin Tarantino recently completed the script of Elmore Leonard's novel "Forty Lashes" as a directing vehicle for himself. I hope that he makes this his next project. Miramax will produce with Lawrence Bender. It was nearly produced in the early `70's for William Friedkin and Jon Voight. This story revolves around two inmates, one black and one Indian, of Yuma Prison in Arizona who strike a deal through a rep for the Bureau of Indian Affairs to be released. They must first track down five of the state's most dangerous prisoners who escaped during a transfer. I had the tremendous opportunity to meet this man who happens to be one of my all-time favorite directors in the world. I just had to tell him how MUCH I anticipate this one. No word on production schedule. The Quicker, the Better! So... has Quentin shot a new film? Did he go out and shoot FORTY LASHES in late 1999 ta mid 2000? Is this why, suddenly... one day out of the blue he called Tim up at the Drafthouse and said... 3 Weeks to the QT3? Or was it because he was about to go shoot it? Or has he shot it since QT4?
So... why post this rumor? Because... it is delicious... the sort of rumor that I so want to be true it isn't even funny. As I watched SAVAGE STREETS at the Drafthouse Wednesday night, all I could think while watching that badass Linda Blair taking them punks that done done her wrong and making them bleed and burn... well all I could think was.... MY GOD! QUENTIN IS MAKING ONE OF THESE.... BUT WITH GREAT DIALOGUE, ACTING AND CINEMATICS...
Now here's the thing... the story is about an American Indian and a Black Man that escape from Prison in the old west in this Elmore Leonard novel... and just thinking about it... Who would he of cast if he was going to do it on the QT? How could he assemble a crew? Keep it quiet? I don't know... Sounds like bullshit, but I tell you... the whole time I'm at Cannes... somewhere I'll be hoping for this to come true!
...
Folks... Harry here again... I haven't been able to shake this rumor from my head, that's why the percent went from 2% to 3 and 9/16%! Someone below says, "How could NO ONE let it slip?" Well, technically... here's someone... And, the rumors have been solid for years now.... Since early 1999. Hell Hollywood Reporter and Variety announced that this was Quentin's next film. Then all word disappeared... But Quentin finished the script... I've heard that. BUT... when Quentin was recently asked about THE VEGA BROTHERS, he stated that THAT film was pretty far off because he had to shoot his next film, KILL BILL and then his WORLD WAR II film.
What the hell happened to FORTY LASHES?
It was to be Quentin's Western... A genre he loves! The last QT fest was heavy on the male male friendship, escape and conquer flicks... Festival before that was heavy on the 'Jackie Brown-esque' films...
I think the reason I'm reacting so strongly to this RUMOR is that I have gotten to know Quentin a bit and it sounds like the sort of thing he would do. Quentin comes in and out of the country, states, cities on a whim... kinda like Kane from Kung Fu... But he was in Mexico... Why?
Well, his producing partner, Bender was producing THE MEXICAN... he could have just been visiting... but I remember getting reports from Guadelajara Newspapers saying that Quentin Tarantino was directing a film called THE MEXICAN with Brad Pitt and Julia Roberts... Well I knew it was bunk, I knew Gore Verbenski was directing it... so I never paid it any mind... WELL... What if Quentin was shooting with an extremely small crew... What if Quentin, used the umbrella of THE MEXICAN, dubbed the shoot THE MEXICAN and figured any escaping press would simply think... "Stupid Mexican Newspapers... Gore Verbenski is directing that!!!!" and just dismiss it as bad reporting?
Quentin sunk a lot of time into FORTY LASHES the script... did it just suck and he decide to never make it... or to walk away from it for years then revisit it? Could be... But FORTY LASHES has completely disappeared off his development slate... He doesn't bring it up as a potential future film. And he has been disappearing without a trace in the papers for months at a time.
Like I said, this could very well be wishful thinking and probably is... But this rumor has been being whispered about (minus the Cannes part) and given the location (that I must protect) that my source claims to have heard it... well... That's why I raised it to 5 & 11/23% chance of being true... Though I must say, I've almost talked myself into totally believing it... (that's the wishful thinking part of me).
UPDATE
Talked with a fella at MADE tonight that actually approached Tarantino about 40 LASHES at the last Quentin Tarantino Film Festival here in Austin, and apparently Quentin told him something to the degree of:
"Well I've just been..." He smiled and said, "I don't want to talk about this right now," and moved the conversation into a totally different direction which was allegedly thoroughly entertaining.
NOW... This doesn't mean a damn thing... Could be he didn't want to talk about it because he was really jazzed about the film he just screened and would rather talk about that.... Or it could mean that.... AH HELL, HE'S MADE IT! WE ALL KNOW IT! Ahem... Sorry, brainfart... Anyone notice the gap in his PULP FICTION cinematographer's schedule at IMDB? Can anyone trace any of his other old crew members? The mood amongst folks I've been talking with is that... it is a very real possibility... But I've had no solid sources on this and everything seems up to interpretation regarding... the scenarios... Thus the minor increase in the percentage.
Stay tuned for further updates... I've got several calls out to people.... that should have a clue. So far NO calls back, and usually the calls get returned pretty quickly... Once again though... non-communication does not lend credence, merely suspicion and paranoid conspiracy fuel.
If nothing else I think we're all learning exactly how much we want Quentin to shoot or release another of his films!
Back to the trail of breadcrumbs...
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May 03, 2001 11:06:32 PM CDT
If I believed in a god I'd hope to it that no-one took this seri
by tremmor_christ
As above.
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Oh how I wish this were true. Quentin Tarantino has been firmly established as one of the coolest directors ever--just about every new movie about crime is compared to his work--but if he has managed to pull this off...in this age of "Survivor" something as massive and secret as this would be a feat on par with the parting of the red sea, and twice as drool-worthy, coming from Tarantino.
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Quen-tin! Quen-tin!
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Yeah...we ALL want it to be true. But when somethings too good to be true...well, you know...I just find it hard to believe NO ONE would let it slip somewhere. Man, but if he did it in total secret...I am NOT gonna get my hopes up. But hey even if it does show up and it IS real...it'll be months before us mere mortals see it anyway. But hey QT or any one else cool...it sure would be cool if such a rumor was true. Why not try to do something like this?
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now maybe this is true and maybe it ain't, cool either way. i just don't want to see that wwII flick he kept talking about. i mean, Reservoir and Pulp were masterpieces, but the Brown thing got a little on my nerve. i believe the best works come out of any geniuses when they have to work under constraints. Brown, the Q got to do anything he wanted and the result wasn't so great. WWII sounded more of the same. maybe the secrecy he would have had to work under to do the western thing (a genre that fits Q more than war movies) might have provided for another astonishing movie (are those verb tenses right?)
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May 04, 2001 12:24:56 AM CDT
Deac Speaks... how can he keep it secret? you read the above, it
by deacon
this movie forty lashes (if this report is true) wasn't kept as secret as you people believe if AICN got this report... it's just like back when Terminator 3 was an impossibility... Coming Attractions got in like 5 reports from the same guy that said the legalities were worked out and T3 was greenlighted.. they never reported it.. then when it finally happened, they posted what the dude said, it very well could happen and this dude is giving you heads up... i must say that if it's true... may God have mercy on us all
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I understand how the big QT could disappear without trace to film...but what about the stars? if there are any big names then the big eye of the media and of course Harry's army of willing spies would have noticed them or something!....
I think it is just Blubost as we say here in Prague. -
Such a stunt feels like the kind of thing Tarantino would get a huge kick out of doing. Fake names, out of the way locations, a tight cast and crew. And then to show up at Cannes with an unheard-of film all completed. That would be hard to beat.
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The Case For:
Quentin was at the New Line Xmas party sort of out of the blue and in a celebratory mood. He was suntanned, and simply swelled with a sense of accomplishment.
Quentin is a noted admirer of Kubrick and Malick -- both legendary for their secret-keeping abilities and small, tight knit crews.
Quentin has Bender in Mexico (on The Mexican), QT pal Rodriguez co-owns studio space down there, andQT and LB have a commercial company. All of these things provide a substantial degree of cover for a top secret geurilla shoot.
Quentin has been undeterred in the past by working with unknowns, has beens and never weres...i.e., the perfect types to cast in something like this so that the starfucker press wouldn't catch wind of the movie.
Miramax bought a shitload of Elmore Leonard rights for Quentin in late 1996.
Assuming he actually made this QT has more than enough contacts/friends/admirers in France to pull off a stunning surprise booking like this. My bet is it'll be a midnight screening.
Regardless of how "close" Harry is to QT -- there's not a chance in hell he would have told or even dropped a hint to HK if he was doing this. A surprise is a surprise is a surprise.
Harvey, being a multimillionaire, and QT, being likewise, could have pulled this off easily, and without even telling one member of the Miramax/Dimension rank and file. Remember the scene in the Winnebago in Dusk till Dawn when Clooney and Quentin sneak across the border. The dude understands subterfuge, he understands guerilla filmmaking...THE M.O. Makes sense.
Somebody check QT's DP's schedule/availabilities over the last few months: was Stephan Cspasky working during this time...was there a gap in his work schedule--I'll bet the evidence is there.
THE CASE AGAINST
How on earth did this not leak until now?
Who was cast? Was it WGA/DGA/SAG low busget waiver? Where's the documentation?
But I hope it's true. WE SHALL SEE...
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The Case For:
Quentin was at the New Line Xmas party sort of out of the blue and in a celebratory mood. He was suntanned, and simply swelled with a sense of accomplishment.
Quentin is a noted admirer of Kubrick and Malick -- both legendary for their secret-keeping abilities and small, tight knit crews.
Quentin has Bender in Mexico (on The Mexican), QT pal Rodriguez co-owns studio space down there, andQT and LB have a commercial company. All of these things provide a substantial degree of cover for a top secret geurilla shoot.
Quentin has been undeterred in the past by working with unknowns, has beens and never weres...i.e., the perfect types to cast in something like this so that the starfucker press wouldn't catch wind of the movie.
Miramax bought a shitload of Elmore Leonard rights for Quentin in late 1996.
Assuming he actually made this QT has more than enough contacts/friends/admirers in France to pull off a stunning surprise booking like this. My bet is it'll be a midnight screening.
Regardless of how "close" Harry is to QT -- there's not a chance in hell he would have told or even dropped a hint to HK if he was doing this. A surprise is a surprise is a surprise.
Harvey, being a multimillionaire, and QT, being likewise, could have pulled this off easily, and without even telling one member of the Miramax/Dimension rank and file. Remember the scene in the Winnebago in Dusk till Dawn when Clooney and Quentin sneak across the border. The dude understands subterfuge, he understands guerilla filmmaking...THE M.O. Makes sense.
Somebody check QT's DP's schedule/availabilities over the last few months: was Stephan Cspasky working during this time...was there a gap in his work schedule--I'll bet the evidence is there.
THE CASE AGAINST
How on earth did this not leak until now?
Who was cast? Was it WGA/DGA/SAG low busget waiver? Where's the documentation?
But I hope it's true. WE SHALL SEE...
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May 04, 2001 1:50:02 AM CDT
Remember, he still has the rights to turn 5 Elmore Leonard books
by paddington
So maybe he;'s trying to make himself appear to be more of a badass than he already is... fliming a movie under everyone's noses... a great story for an autobiograhy if you ask me...
Paddington -
A secret movie, how do u do that exactly, in this day and age... please! Tarantino did state a few years ago on the BBC that he wanted to make a western but that was the last of it, in fact that was the last of him. Where has he been since the lazy bastard. If Tarantino found out that people were still discussing some comment he made during the release of Jackie Brown he would piss his pants with laughter at the losers that who would even fathom it.
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this would be really pleasing if it was true. i kind of WISH movies were made like this. out of NOWHERE, "oh yeah, spiderman is opening this summer. check it out."
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Remember when you counted down the days till Christmas starting in early December? You didn't know exactly what was coming, but you knew it would be good. I hope QT can deliver. I'm a fan, but Jackie Brown was boring. Even From Dusk Till Dawn was better (at least the first half).
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I rarely talk back on this site but I just had to write in and say that this is hands down one of the best articles I've read on this site in recent times! The feeling I got reading this was akin to watching a really good UFO documentary. You know the kind where they tell you about all the sitings, the evidence, the clues. In your head, you may not really believe in UFOs but for the duration of the programme YOU BELIEVE!!! Intellectually, I know that the likleyhood of this being true is slim at best but GODDAMMIT I so want this to be true! I can only speak for myself but while I love reading about films in the making on this site and others like it, all the constant spy activity can take away some of the magic (saying that, it does add a different kind of magic for me). These days it seems impossible that a film can be made without everyone knowing about it every step of the way. Some of the excitement, for me, has been lost. This article brought it all back. As I read every rumour, every clue, every word I wanted to believe more and more. In my head I know that a rumour like this to be real is just too damn cool for this world. In my heart I'm a believer and I want it to be true. Brilliant article! I come to this site for things like this and all those who will, no doubt, shriek "I told you so!" if this turns out to be just a fantasy: I wish you had more joy in your lives.
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I can't reveal my source, but this film is not 40 Lashes. It is a Rolling Thunder release and, yes, it will be a midnight screening. Sorry to say, QT didn't direct it but when you find out what film he restored this time, you'll be very happy.
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You geeky fanboys are about to learn that loyalty and honor can even circumvent this fancy internet thing. The film was indeed made as described above. And the mainstream critics will have heart attacks when they see it because they knew nothing about it until today. Watch Harry slowly but surely up his percentage estimates over the coming week.
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While we're on a grammar kick, how about some movie quotes?
I love the smell have napalm in the morning.
You of to ask yourself, "Do I feel lucky?"
What we of here, is a failure to communicate.
You of been erased. (I think that's actually what he said though.)
P.S. I hope it's true, I hope it's true. And I hope it's good. -
What if he did pull that off?? What if he does show up at cannes or just releases it to theaters? What if a MAJOR director went of and made a film and EVERYONE concerned kept it quiet.. That would go down as the ultimate in geek cool... He could do it.. small crew paid on release, only IF the stay quiet, edited alone in a rented apartment, on computers... Score done by one person on a synth.. or using existing music only.. He could have directed, edited, DP'd, written.. all alone.. Small cast.. No one THAT famous.. What a great tale it would make... Every news show in the country picks it up.. 50 mil in free advert.. and NOT ONE INTERNET GEEK PAGE GIVES AWAY ONE DETAIL... Of course it's all bullpucky.. but still.. cool.....
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Oh God I hope this rumor is true. i love tarantino and have always. DOGS is my favorite movie of all time nad I personally feel that PULP FICTION was the most influential film of the 90's (I mean it really did change the direction that film took for quite some time and it turned his name into an adjective). His part of FOUR ROOMS was hysterical and really well done (my opinion at least) and no matter what anyone says I thought Jackie BRown was a really good movie. I would love to find out he made a 'secret' movie. He hasn't done anything in a while and is definatly due. He has all but fallen off the radar completly and I think turning up with a movie no one even knew he was doing would put him right back up there. I hope all the evidence Harry sited does point to this being true and for now that's all I can do...hope.
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Luc Besson and Richard Linklater have yet to do a big movie, much less one under the radar. I know they have made good ones, but neither of them have (or of for Harry) made a big film. I love Dazed and Confused, but it was not a big film. It made less than 8 million domestic (according to IMDB), so it was not a big film. Tarantino might be able to do it, but there is no way that Cameron could.
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Imagine for a moment a scenario that could explain how QT could pull this off. For the past five years or so, The Dogme film movement has been THE thing for big directors to try. Directors like Von Treir(Breaking The Waves, Dancer In The Dark), Soderbergh(Traffic), Schumacher(Tigerland), Corrine(Gummo, Julien Donkey Boy), and countless others. Suppose for a moment that QT made Forty Lashes in this style. He could have a small, tight crew, lesser known stars, shoot it himself(which he has said he likes to do), and do it all under the mask of The Mexican and his buddy Bender. Really, no one would realize if QT was in the middle fo Mexico with say a 8-10 person crew shooting his film. And honestly, this is a style that would fit his storytelling better than most people would think, particularly with the story of Forty Lashes. As I say this, I am holding my breath that this rumor is true.
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May 04, 2001 6:37:19 AM CDT
"They talk a lot, don't they?" "They certainly do. They certain
by sixdoublefive321
I dunno if it's true or not, but I always had this feeling that Tarantino was laying low for a while for two reasons A) so people would forget his appearance on Saturday Night Live and B) so he could come back, years later, with a creative smash and be The Genius From Nowhere all over again. In an era when moviegoers know massive amounts of info about a flick before it's even released, or sometimes before it's even SHOT, wouldn't it be cool if a movie plopped out of the sky? Of course it would, that's what all this talk is about. But who would/could do it? Miramax would be the perfect company to do it and apply the Howard Hughes-like muscle to keep it quiet, and Tarantino would be the perfect guy to front the whole thing. And a Western would be the best, most isolated genre to shoot (I mean, does anybody really know what was going on in Bumfuck, Texas last year?) Sam Jackson was supposed to have been in this movie, where's he been lately? Even if it ain't true, the possibility that it might be totally makes my day. And to the Grammar Police, why don't you also jump on Harry for using "Noone" when he means "No one" or "Nobody."
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I'll be one happy camper when it comes out. Jackie Brown was a masterpiece by the way. Go QT!!!
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I agree with willie, Jackie brown was great. It easily stands up with the rest of Quentin's work, I have seen It 4 times. I just don't get the Jackie haters, I like it more each time I see it.
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Soderbergh pulled this very trick at Cannes back in 1996 with SCHIZOPOLIS. Even if this doesn't happen, this is a great rumor!
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Just us. Those of (have?) us who care enough to find out about movies before they come out. The general, movie going public finds out about movie shortly before they are relased. If this movie was made, and is realased, people who arn't us wouldn't known that it was filmed in secrecy. Of course, that could be a great marketing catch. Before the movie opens wide, all the news programs and magazines will talk about how QT filmed the whole thing in total secrecy, without ANYBODY knowing about it. It'll be like the whole Blair Witch thing where people were impressed that a movie was filmed with such a low budget(even though there are so many that are). Either way, this sounds totally cool, and i hope it's true.
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Tarantino DID finish the script, and he's enough of a film fan to know what happens to directors who push their luck with a high budget (Michael Cimino springs to mind.)
Also, if I were in his situation, under intense artistic scrutiny, I wouldn't blame him for keeping things secret. Everybody would be invading the set, giving him shit on sites like this fine website (sorry, guys, but you know there's the peanut gallery for every set report.)
Besides, this guy loves movies and his turnaround isn't as slow as generally thought. Jackie Brown was pretty moderate speed, not too long after Pulp Fiction.
As for the star question, simple. There are no stars in it. Think about it, Tarantino is huge, he's got a massive rep as an auteur, his name alone could carry a film. Miramax would cheerfully cast a bunch of unknowns (there aren't any major stars who are Native American, after all) and sign them to a potent confidentiality agreement with that guarantee, especially if the crew were small and the budget was pretty small ("Forty Lashes" could be done pretty cheaply, and Tarantino is one of the few directors who can handle a buck, considering Pulp Fiction was shot for $1 mil.)
It adds up. I'm starting to wonder, Harry, if it's bullshit myself.
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If anybody has the balls to try something like this it's QT. Here's hoping!
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Miramax is not releasing anything in October, according to comingsoon.net's release date list. Alarm bells are starting to ring; these guys crank out more film than Kodak. Dimension doesn't have anything coming that month either.
Yeah, it's thin. Extremely thin. But it's interesting, nonetheless. -
I don't mean to be pedantic (it's
my nature), but Julien Donkey-Boy
is the only true Dogme film of the
ones you named. Lars Von Trier
has made only one Dogme film
(Idioterne). Harmony Korine's
Gummo was not a Dogme film.
Tigerland and Traffic are not
Dogme films, in fact neither
Soderbergh nor Schumacher can
claim to have made one. Handheld
camerawork is a necessary
condition, but not a sufficient
one, to earn the Dogme label. -
Hey, you can't convince me that Breaking The Waves is not a Dogme film. Von Treir himself even refers to it as so. And sorry, I did not mean to name Gummo, but the Corrine scripted KIDS. As for the others, I'll admit that they are not Dogme films in every aspect of the term, but they are certainly done in the spirit of the movement, as I was implying this film could be done. But hey, if you want to be the guy that breaks everything down to every minute definition of something, just so you can come here and pretend to be smarter than everyone else, well....
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Hey pedant, I came across a little sarcastic and snobby there, but I actually would like to see the definition of Dogme that you have. Surely the films I listed employ more than just the hand-held camera work you cited. These films are all fictitious stories that are shot and told like documentaries. I' know that this is like the broadest definition out there, but what am I missing?
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It's not SO impossible to keep secrets in today's media-saturated world. After all, hundreds of people have known the results of each "Survivor" series and that info never got out. And let's face it, probably more Americans care about that than what QT might be doing in his spare time.
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This rumour could be true, except I have seen Quentin walking around Soho, and writing in a Greenwich Village Starbucks so many times in the last couple of years I wonder if he ever leaves the city.
My friend used to see him at that Starbucks and when he first saw him, he said he thought it was a homeless person, because Quentin was so disheveled and crazy looking. I never witnessed that side of him, but he was obviously doing a lot of writing.
Who knows, maybe he had time to direct a movie, too. -
May 04, 2001 9:36:50 AM CDT
You know your career's in trouble when even Mira Sorvino dumps y
by fatal discharge
I loved QT's first two films but the only big thing he's shown us since is his ego. Jackie Brown was good in spots but was a rehash of his previous films to much lesser effect.
To Max Fisher Playr: I know one of the conditions is the use of natural light ONLY, no artificial lighting can be used on DOGME films. All the ones which met standards are at the official website www.dogme95.dk along with definition but I couldn't get into it right now. -
May 04, 2001 10:09:06 AM CDT
DarkseedX -- have you ever read an Elmore Leonard novel?
by sixdoublefive321
What the hell are you talking about, calling Leonard books 'milquetoast'? That's like a Zeppelin fan dissing Robert Johnson. I'm a big QT fan, but I'm also hep enough to understand that without Leonard, there probably wouldn't be anything like "Reservoir Dogs" and Tarantino would probably agree. George Higgins' and Elmore Leonard's influence on contemporary cinema, with regard to fast realistic dialogue, flawed heroes, questionable loyalties and serpentine plots & doublecrosses cannot be overstated. True, most of the films based on his books lose the magic (I think only "Out of Sight" has gotten a real handle on the Leonard sensibility)... but he got there first. Check out a book he wrote way back in 1976 called "Swag" (I know, terrible title) about two fast talking dudes who decide to go into business robbing liquor stores for fun; read it, try not to imagine Michael Madsen and Michael Keaton in it with music by Shuggie Otis, and then talk to me about 'milquetoast.'
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Dogme is as much a formula as they way Hollywood puts films together. Film that STARTS with theory is destined to be what it is: pretentious crap.
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Dogme is as much a formula as the
way Hollywood puts films together. Film that STARTS with theory is destined to be what it is: pretentious crap. Real artists make art, then critics make theory based on that art - not the other way around. Dogme is a simple formula meant to control aesthetics. Whenever you try to control aesthetics, you are in actuality trying to control content. Controlling content is what Nazis do. Cardinal Richelieu did the same with French theater during the Neoclassical era. By controlling HOW plays were presented he could easilly control the content of what was presented. Art sould be free, not the result of a 'paint-by-numbers' process. that's why I'll take QT over any of those pale Dogme freaks any day of the week. QT is free, using inspiration from a multitude of sources, while the latter huddle with video cameras and bare bulbs beng all 'arty'. -
I quote from previous talkback: "Handheld camerawork is a necessary condition, but not a sufficient one, to earn the Dogme label." Art should never have NECESSARY CONDITIONS. Art should never have to EARN A LABEL. This sounds like advertising, not cinema. The Dogme idea is one written by two drunken dilletants at a film festival. The fact that it has caught on is a testament to what idiotic sheep we all are and how the standards of Art and cinema have been in a steady decline since the eighties. Every time I meet some young hotshot who wants to ride the Dogme wave, I feel an overwhelming urge to vomit in his or her face. Dogme is the aesthetic of slavery, of indifference, of artistic laziness, and of fools. I hereby urinate on all things Dogme.
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Thanks for the input, and the heads up on the site. Actually makes a little more sense now. And thanks to all others for their thoughts. Believe it or not, they actually hepled.
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Yeah. After visiting the "official" Dogme95 website and reading the "vow of chastity", it does seem a bit ridiculous to certify a film only when it adheres to the set rules. It occured to me that if one of the rules is that the director cannot be credited, how do we know who the hell made what film?
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How does a pact which is entered into voluntarily constitute slavery? Dogme was simply a challenge drawn up by some talented filmmakers who wanted to shake things up a little, and, as the peculiarly threatened tone of you post indicates, it appears, they succeeded. Even if most of these films were modest achievements, Vintenberg's daring, inventive and ultimately brilliant THE CELEBRATION vindicates the entire venture. Most likely, though, the Dogme Days have passed, so you needn't worry about the aesthetic offending your supremely delicate sensibilities much longer.
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WHO CARES. How many films has he made? 3. 4. Screw Quentin until he put's out a film to make up for that donkey turd Jackie Brown. Resevoir Dogs rules...because of the acting. Pulp Fiction I'll give him...it's a masterpiece. And if this film even comes close to those 2 I'll give him praise and buy the damn DVD. But he IS NOT one of the greatest directors ever. Not even one of the greatest american directors. AND, if all the drooling fanboy world would stop lumping such grand praise upon him, he may actually make some more films. He is a DECENT writer with some SEMI-original ideas.
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May 04, 2001 11:41:27 AM CDT
Is milquetoast something old timey people used to eat with their
by sixdoublefive321
Yeah, DarkseedX, I am just that hep, though fortunately one doesn't have to be a genius to appreciate Leonard's work or influence. Since you seem to have taken affront to my reply, I wish I could engage in some kind of positive exchange, some kind of Socratic debate over the merits of his work. But you don't offer much beyond the level of, "'Out of Sight' sucks," which seems kinda simplistic. Nevertheless, let me say this: most of the movies are pretty bad (though even if you don't like the story or acting in "Out of Sight" you ought to at least accept that, technically, the filmmaking is a far cry above something like "Tomcats" which really does suck); I can say that some of his books are better than others, and I tend to prefer the ones from the mid-seventies to the early-eighties --books like "Pronto" and "Be Cool" and a few others aren't that hot but for every bad one, he's written two or three classics. And if you think he sucks so bad, then how come you read "several" of his books?
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May 04, 2001 12:00:45 PM CDT
Dogma 95 was an interesting idea that left few lasting impressio
by milktoast
Really it is a masochist venture that was a nonsensical reaction (out of a justifiable "rage" -- quotes because that isn't the word I want) against the artifices and frozen modes and methods in H-wood. It asked "where are the new ideas and daring?" That is what drew people into it, I think. Unfortunately, like most rebellions to over throw dictatorship, it was designed in a way that it would become another sort of dictatorship if stuck to. I don't think Schumacher or Soderburg have the nuts to make a real Dogma movie, but at least they are reflecting some its impressions. It shows that big H-wood paid attention to some degree (Schumacher's Tigerland and up coming Phone Booth are testaments to his interest). These filmmakers have shown that they do not want to ignore radical new ideas and suggests that maybe there just needs to be someone like Korine or Von Triers (sp?) to put them forth. H-wood isn't about originality. It sometimes includes a new idea into its canon of styles.
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who the heck is this Seaweed character? did anybody else (or should i say did "noone" else) notice that the first word in his/her scoop is "also"? was this item number nine of the e-mail? harry, i ask you, what did this yahoo have to say that could have been more interesting (whether true or not) than a completed Quentin Tarantino flick, filmed in secret, ready for Cannes? could it be a hot pic from the set of Blade 3?
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Thanks Milktoast for understanding what I was originally trying to say, and saying it better. And to Mad Hatter, thank you for furthering the dialogue on Dogme. You're right, perhaps ridiculous was a bit harsh. I hadn't considered the angle you took on it, and it does make sense that way.
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This is the type of rumor-mongering which gives AICN it's creed! I can say I wish it could be true.It's been years since Tarantino's Jackie Brown and all this time I've wondered what has been up to.The idea of a Tarantino western sounds beyond cool.
Yet the idea that anyone could do such a film in close to total secrecy doesn't hold up.In these days of instantaneous internet and media scrutiny,only a no-name director with a no-name crew could pull such a thing off.QT would have had to shoot the thing with a very small crew,as Max Fisher Plyr has noted,and most likely it would be shoot on digital and be a film with a very limited scope.
But who knows....Thanks to Harry I'm going to be eyeing the Cannes Film Festival like a hawk and see what develops.Whether this film happens now or not,I eagerly await any film Tarantino does,if ever. -
could QT get under the radar on this. If He was doing ANY kind of filming it would of leaked out into the public. One again ol'
FatHead get's suckerd into another
B.S. story just like He allways dose. -
now, i'm quite new to all this talkback nonsense. From what i've seen up til now (and participated in, i'll admit) this was quite a mama's boy forum. this, however, is classic talkback. kudos to anyone who has posted anything regarding Dogme, litterature (as in Leonard), or even grammar. congrats also go to QT. if only the rumor of a secret movie can elevate these rumblings from emotional reactionism to intelligent logical discussion, imagine what the actual movie could do?
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Hey, Quentin Tarantino is a foot fetishist. Think about it. Pro-va-ca-tive. This has been a Moment with User ID Indeed! Dullard... here it is! "Dullard (noun); a stupid person". Oh. Well, that kinda takes the wind out of the sails. The devil take you, Webster, you enunciating ass monkey!
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A while back (on Charlie Rose, I think), I heard QT mention that his next film would be a western. A few months later, I heard in another interview that his next film would be a prison film of some sort (he was very vague). Since "Forty Lashes" would fall under both of these genres, it seems likely that this was the film he was referring to both times.
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May 04, 2001 9:09:34 PM CDT
They did this secret movie winding up at Cannes on an episode of
by regis travolta
Remember? A crate of silent movie equipment washed up in the lagoon and Howell directed it and they wanted to send a message for a rescue but the raft Gilligan sent back out wound up at Cannes where the Mystery Film won the Palm d' Orr prize! Then they heard about it on the radio and the announcer conjectured thatit must be the work of Ingmar Bergman or Vittorio Sica or perhaps the combined work of both!
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Here's an educated guess: Magnolia Man said that Rolling Thunder (headed by QT) has restored and will rerelease an old film. I believe it is FORTY GUNS, directed by Samuel Fuller. Why? 1. Forty Guns SOUNDS like Forty Lashes (and the film's theme song and original title is Woman With a Whip). 2. Quentin is a BIG Sam Fuller fan. 3. It's a western. 4. Not available on video and rarely shown on cable (just taped it in widescreen off Fox Movies though), this is a classic that deserves to be reintroduced to the public. *** For those that aren't familiar, Forty Guns is an art film in disguise as a pulp western. Fuller received studio money to make a western with Barbara Stanwyck, and gave us this expressionistic gem and a lesson on how to REALLY use Cinemascope. Scorsese gushes all over this film in his "Personal Journey Through American Cinema" documentary. Of course, this is a all just a guess.
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Cross referenced Andrzej Sekula with misc. crew on imdb...of the dozens of people he's worked with on 2 or more Tarantino films, only a handful seem to have been gainfully employed during the past few years. Here's a brief list of likely candidates for a recent sojourn in Mexico: Ziad Doueiri - camera operator on Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction and Four Rooms (as well as From Dusk Till Dawn), but since his well recieved directing job on 1998's West Beirut has been 'shooting comerials'; Jacqueline Aronson - costume supervisor on Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction, Four Rooms as well as Killing Zoe and From Dusk till Dawn (which was, apparantly, her last job); Carlos K. Goodman - attorney on Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction and Four Rooms, but unemployed since 1998; Cathy Ragona - assistant/production coordinator on Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction, Four Rooms, and Jackie Brown, but needed to take 2 years off since working with Christopher Lambert two years ago; Donald Likovich - film editor on Pulp Fiction and Reservoir Doggs, lying low since 1997's Fifth Element. And there's plenty more with gaps in their resumes. Chances are imdb hasn't updated, or they're just doing other things, but, maybe, the plot is thickening...
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First off, I absolutely love Jackie Brown. QT proved that he could make a movie with a completely different tone and style than his other efforts, and quite of few fanboys STILL don't get it. I love From Dusk Till Dawn. It's a B Movie. That's all it was intended to be. It succeeds. It's one of my favorite movies that shares any association with the "horror" genre.
All I have to say is that out of over two years of reading this site (and occasionally talking back) this is the coolest thing that has been posted.
Regardless of whether or not it's true, just the possibility is enough to plaster a permanent smile on my face. -
My comments re: Dogme were never
intended as a defense of the
project. Truth be told, I haven't
seen a single Dogme film. I was
simply pointing out that the term
is far more specific than was
suggested by MFP's usage. I
freely admit that it was pedantic
of me, but then, Dogme itself is
pedantic. But to get back on
topic, I guess the point is that
Tarantino is not making a Dogme
film. He's probably not even
making one that was INFLUENCED by
Dogme, per se. I do agree that
there seems to be a return to a
more raw, unpolished style of
filmmaking, but I don't know how
much you can credit Dogme for
that, if at all. -
tarantino's editor sally menke, his production designer david wasco and his director of photography andrej sekula (he used guilermo navvarro for jackie brown) all didn't work in 1999 according to the imdb. my brother doesn't think that proves anything. he points out that was 2 years ago but maybe they were waiting around most of the year. im sure they put things on hold if tarantino calls with a project that might happen. and maybe he started in late, late 1999 like nov. or dec. and the shoot carried into 2000. you folks may not believe in santa claus but we folks we believe. here's hoping. man, if tarantino didnt do this he should have.
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Well, a couple years ago I was listening to KSHE 95... a rock radio station in St. Louis, and it announced that Quentin Tarantino was beginning production of a western and that Slash (of Gun's and Roses) was going to have his band in the soundtrack... how is that for foresight? Some of it's gotta be accurate... or who knows...
Adam Hackbarth
Makeshift Media (St. Louis Film Assistance)
www.makeshiftmedia.cjb.net -
May 05, 2001 11:10:48 AM CDT
Ahackbarth, can you explain a couple somethings to me?
by user id indeed!
1)Why the hell do they call it "KSHE *95*" when it's actaully at 94.5, and 2) Whatever happened to the KSHE Pig? I never see that guy anymore. Did he go the way of the Bud Ice Penguin? I tend to prefer The Point or that college-run ska station myself... anything but that new 80's station. All they play is Prince and Duran Duran! This has been a Moment with User ID Indeed! Oh, and why doesn't KSHE ever play "Focus" anymore? You know, with the yodeling and the accordians? I loved that damned song.
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For those of you too lazy to check imdb, here's what it has to say: Pulp Fiction cinematographer Andrzej Sekula's last film was American Psycho. Nothing listed since. The film he did before that was Cousin Bette, released in '98. Lots of free time for him; PF's editor, Sally Menke, has a gap between the US Nightwatch ('98) and All the Pretty Horses (2000), but has been relatively busy since then, including work on Billy Bob's Daddy and Them; Production Designer David Wasco is hard at work on the Royal Tenenbaums, and did Heist and Bounce before that, but also has that mysterious gap in '99. Hmmm...; ditto for his wife, Set Decorator Sandy Reynolds-Wasco; Costume Designer Betsy Heimann (important for a Western, I'd think) hasn't worked since the Family Man, but was busy in '99; Production Manager Paul Hellerman's last film, which he also produced, was... the Mexican; and Qunetin's 1st and 2nd ADs on Pulp Fiction haven't been credited with a film, EITHER of them, since '98. The pattern holds for most of Jackie Brown's crew, too- Cinematographer Guillermo Navarro did nothing between Stuart Little and Spy Kids (although he went more or less staight from Spy Kids into the Devil's Backbone.) We're left with two options, both possible from the IMDB listings- a 1999 shoot, with Quentin sitting on the film until now; or a shoot concurrant with the Mexican, either one using predominantly Pulp Fiction/Jackie Brown folk. Curioser and curioser... (Gee, I guess all that Cloudmaking has really honed my junior detective skills...)
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You can't possibly make a bad movie based on Leonards works. "Get Shorty" was excellent (Still waiting for the bastards to make the sequel "COOL"), "Jackie Brown" (althought the book "Rum Punch was much more enjoyable) was great as well. Just as Sci-fy belongs to Micheal Crichton, and legal trillers to John Grisham, Crime and Caper movies belong to Elmore Leonard. QT knows this, and is great to see him making a relation with a great novelist who will undoubtedly crack-out more great works in the future.
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It being Forty Guns sound right on the money...The possibility of this kind of title confusion seems very likely, and Seeing as how Fuller is huge in Europe it would make sense to showcase a new restored print there. I hope this theory is true. Forty Guns needs to be resurrected from obscurity.
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Yes, there is a big gap in his cinematographer's schedule at IMDB. Not to mention that as early as like 4 months ago, the IMDB still had 40 Lashes listed as his next project. Then, one day, it suddenly vanished from his list of upcoming projects, and has not been mentioned again until yesterday. I still don't know if he could have pulled this off, but damn, this could be one of the greatest moments in the history of cinema if did manage to do it. As for possible Native American start, how about one of the guys from Smoke Signals, who I believe still have a deal with Miramax.
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What would happen if Kevin Smith became Quentin Tarantino's bitch?
I present to you a somewhat fat, slightly balding chain smoking effeminate yet sickeningly breast obsessed film geek named Serendipity Marsupial Tarantino, Buddy for short. Buddy hangs out in the mall all day, drinking five dollar double tall Frappacinos and obsessing over whether Elvis could kick the living shit out of Superman while reading his new shipment of obscure 1950s French comic books.
Buddy and his live-in former stripper girlfriend Vermont, who Buddy claims tastes like a kiwi, share a lavishly decorated run down warehouse outside Wilmington, California, while she completes her Bachelor's Degree in Necrophilia at Banana University. Buddy works the night shift at Compton's only 24 hour liquor/gun/comic book store and writes scripts on the weekends after watching The Tick for inspiration. His first script, Madonna's Big Snatch, has been optioned by Maverick Films as a potential vehicle for Guy Ritchie, and he has just completed a top secret script for James Cameron entitled Viva Las Vega.
Known amongst his friends like Casey Affleck and Wong Kar-Wai as the consumate film buff, Buddy lists Manos, The Hands Of Fate as the most misunderstood film classic audiences will soon rediscover, and wages a one man war against MGM and The Criterion Company to have Lewis Collack's directors cut of Navy SEALs issued on laserdisc, complete with commentary and 16 page color booklet containing half naked photos of Michael Biehn -
May 05, 2001 3:46:42 PM CDT
"You could be playing Lady Macbeth in some basement somewhere an
by sixdoublefive321
Wow, DarkseedX, you wrote MEAN things about me in THREE different posts. I'm touched. All right, fine. Clearly, you just don't like Leonard. And that's a shame but I understand that taste & opinions are completely relative. Okay? Okay. (However... you say you read the books because you "like to give things a chance before you discount them," then you say that "Tomcats" is 'dross' and slam me because I implied that I saw it. On what are you basing that claim? Are you so easily manipulated by studio marketing campaigns and the opinions of reviewers that you accept a spoon-fed idea of what a movie is without actually seeing it? You seem really conflicted. Don't get upset, I'm just kidding you, I didn't actually see "Tomcats" either, I just knew it sucks because Jerry O'Connell makes me chronically nauseous. And I hope to God you're not a Jerry O'Connell fan because now you'll really be mad.
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FDTD was cool the 1st time I saw it. But it has definitley not stood the test of time. Jackie Brown was GREAT! I would like everyone who hates it to explain why. And PLEASE tell me that the scene where DeNiro shoots Fonda in the parking lot of the mall isn't one of the coolest scenes ever filmed. RIGHT BEFORE IT HAPPENED I WAS THINKING: WHY DOESN'T HE SHOOT THIS C*NT? The scene where Samuel L. shoots Chris Tucker is pretty dope too. Respond, people!
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You don't actually expect anyone to recognize Putney Swope lines, do you? Other than me I mean.
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May 05, 2001 7:00:12 PM CDT
Anton Rocky Horror, coming in with a serious Putney Swoop trump!
by sixdoublefive321
Hell, Anton, I don't expect much of nothing anymore, it just seemed appropriate. Stratosphere, baby, stratosphere. I'm stacked up over LaGuardia and I'm not comin' down for nobody (not even you!).
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May 05, 2001 8:19:23 PM CDT
Wow, someone just put my e-mail address on 130 (and counting) ma
by sixdoublefive321
Apparently, I've upset someone.
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until then i'll just watch memento again (better that Pulp fiction in terms of narrative construction, and sixth sense in terms of twists).
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...I heard from a friend of a friend who knows people in the biz, that it is not 40 LASHES, but KUBRICK's NAPOLEON that will be debuted at Cannes! Kubrick, who is known for trying to keep his films secret from the public until release, used his "death" as a cover to film the movie at a secret, remote location. And guess what, JACK NICHOLSON IS NAPOLEON! This is a great day for geeks everywhere: rejoice!
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I was just down at the Alamo Drafthouse wathcing Mr. Sinus Theater's take on the roller-classic Xanadu. In leaving the theater I ran into the red one himself, Harry... According to him on the new Killing Zoe DVD under Taratino (who produced it) it lists "Forty Lashes (2001)." Pretty cool. But by no means conclusive since the firms hired to create the DVD content just jack their info from imdb.com and as a talkbacker stated earlier imdb was listing this movie until about four months ago... But still, I mean Tarantino had a hand in the DVD I'm sure... How could they have just leave it in there? Who knows... On another point, Harry also mentioned that it wouldn't be a Rolling Thunder release because Taratino decided to retool the whole Rolling Thunder operation to simply release videos...
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if you search a little online, it really looks like QT filmed it last year sometime. Miramax originally had a summer 2000 release date with Sam Jackson starring, but obviously that didn't come to pass. Maybe we should be checking Sam Jackson's scheduling, though it might be pretty futile considering how many movies he's been in. If he could find the time to be in "The Search For One-Eye Jimmy" than certainly he could've done a DV quickie for Quentin.
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Seeing how so many people want to share their "fascinating" opinions about this wonderful rumor, and also that these opinions are awful redundant, I thought I'd put my unique spin on things...
Quentin Tarantino's "Forty Lashes" will be a great film. I, personally, am not a western fan but I think any film Tarantino makes is great (from Reservoir Dogs to, contrary to popular opinion, Jackie Brown!!!). This film has long been believed to be his new masterpiece and I, personally, hope the rumor is true. Is the rumor plausible? Well, secretive films aren't unheard of. "Schizopolis" and "Tape" appearing at Cannes and Sundance, respectively, are just a couple examples. And wouldn't QT be quite the genius, after the critically acclaimed but near despised by fans third film "Brown", if he came back with a film that noone expected, at a high profile film festival, possibly in competition, with nothing known about it except the long standing rumor of it and the source material's plot summary. Interesting though, this film is seen as a blindsiding project that would be a great happy surprise, but all these people are speculating on it on the Internet already? I'll be watching IFC's Cannes coverage and the internet to see if anything is said about it, good or bad. Tarantino is brilliant and this film will be great no matter what.
P.S.: Why are you hounding some internet geek for his spelling? You all know you shorten what you say on the web. Hypocrites...(I really don't know if I spelled that right).
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