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HERC Spent Last Night With TEAM WHEDON!!

If I could make the title of this piece any length, it would read “Herc just spent Saturday Night with Team Whedon, the cast of ‘Angel,’ a ‘Buffy’ regular and a couple hundred other ‘Angel’ fans!!”

It was FUN! The occasion was the “Angel” evening of the Museum of Television and Radio’s 18th annual William S. Paley Television Festival at the Director’s Guild Theatre in Los Angeles. They screened “Darling Boy” (in which Angel met the human Darla) then convened a panel.

On stage were “Angel” creators Joss Whedon and David Greenwalt, writers Marti Noxon and Tim Minear, and cast members David Boreanaz, Charisma Carpenter, Alexis Denisof, J. August Richards, Elisabeth Rohm (Kate Lockley), Stephanie Romanov (Lilah Morgan) and Christian Kane (Lindsey McDonald).

What follows is my version of the highlights (If you were there, please feel free to elaborate or correct any inaccuracies in talkback. The rest of you, please forgive all the bad grammar, missing words, misspellings et al; for reasons I daren’t explain, Herc’s really under the gun tonight.)

1) Asked if he minded not winning Emmys, Whedon said, “I’m hanging out with these guys! Who cares about Emmys? I would love to win Emmys and wear them about my neck, but considering that we’re making a show about vampire hunting, I think the level of recognition we ARE receiving really speaks to the amount of talent on this stage.”

2) Talk got around to “Buffy’s” huge cast of regulars. Whedon jokingly said, “I’m killing them off.” A nervous voice from the audience cried “Killing them ALL off??” The voice turned out to be that of Alyson Hannigan. Whedon assured Hannigan that they “would never, ever kill off Willow.”

3) Carpenter said she likes to go to the Emmys “as if I WERE nominated!” Josh joked that Emmy security would descend upon her with shouts of “Get her away from Mr. Sorkin!”

4) Someone asked Whedon how he defined “a soul” and how Angel (a vampire with a soul) differed from the soulless vampires (like Spike). Whedon posited that soulless creatures can do good and souled creatures can do evil, but that the soul-free are instinctually drawn toward doing evil while those with souls tend to instinctually want to do good. So there you have it.

5) Whedon said that the character of Angel (by the time he got his own series) was intended as a metaphor for an alcoholic in recovery. Angel, like many recovering addicts, is making amends for what he did “under the influence.”

6) An audience member asked where Angel got all his money. Whedon joked, “He robs. We’re not going to SHOW that.” When the same person asked where Angel gets his clothes, Whedon shot back, “Clearly at one shop!”

7) Someone on stage revealed that Christian Kane (Lindsey) had a great singing voice and would be singing on the show before season’s end.

8) A horrified Carpenter revealed that for the next “Angel” to be shot, she would be appearing in a bikini.

CARPENTER: Seriously, it even says in the script, “Bend over more!”

BOREANAZ: I’ll wear your bikini. (Huge laugh.) Seriously, I’ll wear a bikini and sing karaoke till I’m blue in the face.

WHEDON: Boy, did YOU just create an arc for your character!

9) CONFUSED AUDIENCE MEMBER: When will Buffy remember or realize that she slept with Angel?

WHEDON: When the rash … (Laughter stopped Whedon before he could finish.)

10) Whedon, while explaining how real-world “disasters” can create major major plotlines, revealed that Spike and Dru were supposed to return to Sunnydale together in season three. The Spike/Dru breakup that persists to this day was created to cover for the fact that Juliet Landau was doing a movie at the time and wasn’t available for that episode.

11) Whedon also said much of the long-term plot is planned well in advance, but sometimes the writers just suddenly decide to bring back characters who were created weeks or months or years previously because they fit.

12) Several of the writers, including Whedon and Tim Minear, did not mention AICN specifically, but did say they were addicted to internet postings about the show. Tim Minear said it was impossible to stay away and that he can usually cite the number of hours and minutes since his last glimpse at the message boards. “There’s praise,” said Whedon, “and then there’s MORE praise. And after a while it’s like ‘I invented television!!’ It makes me say to my wife, ‘Why don’t you think I’m cooler??’ It does affect the way I think about the show – in moderation.”

13) Someone (Minear? Greenwalt?) casually revealed that the last three episodes of the season would take place somewhere besides Los Angeles. Someone else on the panel yelped “Spoiler!” Which got a big laugh.

14) An audience member asked why the nerdy billionaire wasn’t on the show anymore. Whedon said they wanted him back but the actor wasn’t available. “We loved him,” said Whedon. “He was in ‘Office Space’ so we thought he was the coolest thing in the world!”

15) Whedon confirmed that he made “The Body” because he own mother died several years ago and he “had some things to say” about the experience.

16) Carpenter unexpectedly asked one of the best questions of the night:

CARPENTER: Why didn’t you close her [Joyce Summers’] eyes?

WHEDON: To make it worse.

Carpenter also stopped everything to express what sounded like genuine awe for Hannigan’s performance in “The Body.” This brought perhaps the evening’s biggest audience reaction.

17) Whedon also revealed that Mutant Enemy purposely tries to make sure when there’s a really dark “Buffy,” it’s paired that night with a lighter “Angel,” and vice-versa. The rationale, said Whedon, is “They’re SO gonna need this.”

18) Carpenter remembered one time on the “Angel” set when Whedon was deep in thought and she asked him what he was so preoccupied with. Whedon explained he was trying to figure out what happens in the seventeenth episode of season two. “We were shooting episode five of season one at the time,” she marveled.

19) An audience member asked if there was an encyclopedia of demons for staff use. Joss offered that David Greenwalt kept track of the demons. “Names,” retorted Greenwalt. “I just come up with the names. Usually something with a 'k' sound.”

20) Tim Minear (I think) told a story of an accidental crossover. Minear (I think) was helping build the Darla arc and wanted to do an origin episode for Darla, but when he took the idea to Whedon, Whedon said, “Well, that’s fine, except that same night we’re already doing Spike’s origin story on ‘Buffy’” “Then we looked at each other.”

21) A very funny moment occurred when one clueless audience member (obviously dying to mate with Angel) asked Boreanaz if Angel will ever be romantically involved with another mortal. At this point, Whedon and Minear simultaneously moved to the edges of their chairs, their eyes locked on Boreanaz as if dying to find out.

22) Whedon concluded by saying how excited he was to do that evening’s event and how pleased he was to get through an entire evening without one of the questions being “Isn’t that the new show on Fox?”

God doesn’t want you! But I still do!

I am – Hercules!!

Readers Talkback
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  • March 4, 2001, 2:21 a.m. CST

    Lucky bastard!

    by Psyclops

    Joss and crew are some of the most talented people in the business today. I'm not kidding when I say that I have fallen in love with 'Buffy' all over again (there was a dry spell during the last year or so due to my work schedule... but I've pretty much shifted my entire life around Tuesday nights). Anyway, here's to hoping they continue cranking out some of the best work on television.

  • March 4, 2001, 2:30 a.m. CST

    Being in Canada II

    by Battleflag

    I don't get the WB either! Christ! Well, nothing like seeing new Angel on Thursday followed by new Buffy on Saturday. Great

  • March 4, 2001, 2:54 a.m. CST

    Damn, a fine read but cursed...

    by slav

    Season 5 of buffy has just started here in Australia, we have just seen the Xander replacement episode. I've been really good with avoiding spoilers for this series as well as Angel and ONLY these shows. Others, give me the low down. I want to know. Joyce dead?!!! Well I guess I can slightly feel better now in that I do'nt know how. It was the only low point (for me) in the article, hence the 'curse'. Now the spoilers I do love ....... Cordelia/Charisma in a bikini?!!!!!!!!! My My now that is something special. Not since baywatch have I've seen Charisma in a bikini. So I really look forward to that. : ) Praise to Joss and the gang for making the week fly by to the next with his shows to look forward to. This is where I go all high schooly..... DUDE, BUFFY AND ANGEL ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • March 4, 2001, 3:12 a.m. CST

    I've been to one of those shows!

    by Psyclops

    It was at the Director's Guild in 1995 for my favorite show at the time... 'My So-Called Life'. (WARNING! I am about to go into a brief description of a pretty cool personal story... feel free to skip over to another talkbacker) ...It was on a Thursday in March. It was raining like crazy outside and I was standing in a 'Will Call' line waiting for three hours with no ticket. I kept hoping some clueless dope would drop his ticket on the floor so that I wouldn't have to wait in that damned line anymore, but no such luck. Anyway, by the time the show had already started, most of the people that were waiting decided to go home. But I stuck around, even after one of the staff members tried to talk all of us left behind to call it a night. It had been almost an hour since the show began (they were just about done screening the pilot episode for the audience) when a lady who worked in the building announced to us that there were some seats available for the rest of the show. By some bizarre stroke of luck...I was able to get in. The cast and crew were about to take their seats on stage for the Q&A session which meant that there were ten seats available... in the front row... for free... fucking reserved seats for the celebs no less! I enjoyed the show without paying a dime and afterward, stepped outside for a smoke. A woman approached me and asked for a cigarette... I recognized her as the mother of A.J. Langer, one of the main cast members from the show. In the auditorium, A.J. had been sitting right in front of me and kept calling the woman "mom",... so being the quick witted detective that I am, I put it all together and came to the conclusion that she was her mother. I'm pretty smart, huh? I gave her my autograph book and kindly asked if she would have her daughter sign it... she came back with a full set of signatures from the cast and crew. From Claire Danes to Edward Zwick (producer of the show and director of Glory and Courage Under Fire)! It was so cool. Especially since I was totally in love with Claire Danes at the time. But that was one of the coolest experiences I've had since I moved to Los Angeles. Speaking of 'My So-Called Life', I really miss that show! But at least I have a certain Vampire Slayer to keep me company.

  • March 4, 2001, 9:14 a.m. CST


    by xrae

    Why don't they ever do these events in Tennessee?

  • March 4, 2001, 9:25 a.m. CST

    Counting the hours 'til San Diego

    by Deed

    Damn. Sounds like it was quite a night. The only time I have ever seen Joss talk was last year at Wizard World in Chicago. But no one from the cast of either show made the trip with him. He his so quick witted that even if he wasn't talking about BUFFY I would enjoy hearing him speak. I love that he plans the show out so far in advance. It gives the whole storyline consistancy and allows for foreshawdowing. (Unlike *cough*ChrisCarter*cough*). Anyway, I am hoping that he and his team make it back to the San Diego Comic Con this year, and that I can get away from my booth long enough to see them. YAY!

  • March 4, 2001, 9:42 a.m. CST

    My Troubles With "Angel"

    by R_Nathan

    Am I the only one having troubles with the Darla story arc on "Angel" this season? What's going on? Angel didn't seem ver7 concerned when he spiked Darla in the first season of "Buffy." Why the obession with her now? It's not as though there was a reason for Angel to like her, other than pure sexual attraction. She was never very nice when she came back, except for one small moment when she was dying and decided not to be vamped. Other than that, she's been a pain. Was it all about sex? Are we supposed to believe that Angel's gonads override his brains? And isn't the law firm of Wolfram and Hart a little weak to be Angel's main nemesis? What kind of threat is Wolfram and Hart compared with (for exmple) Glory? Angel has become a wuss. I think the problem with "Angel" started with they replaced Doyle with Wesley. I like Wesley as a character, but when he came along, Angel Investigations became 2/3 light comedy relief. And don't get me started on the Host. I do like this show, but it disappoints me compared with "BUFFY." But then, anything would probably be a disappointment compared with "Buffy."

  • March 4, 2001, 1:39 p.m. CST

    advice to Battleflag......

    by Jarek

    Get a C-Band dish and stop complaining that you live in Canada! Geez...

  • March 4, 2001, 7:37 p.m. CST

    FYI R Nathan

    by Magnum PI

    The reason Angel wasn't bugged about killing Darla the first time around was because he had Buffy to distract him(nudge-nudge-wink- wink). Also this time W&H were messing him indirectly using magic(that's how Darla got into his dreams). As for W&H not being good villians, I don't agree. Can you think of any force in this world more evil than a big LA law firm. Nevermind one that is connected with Hell. As for Doyle, Glen Quinn knew from the start that his character was going to die. It was all a build up to 1)establishing that Angel is more adult oriented than Buffy and that even cast regulars can die and 2)establishing Cordy as more than just a babe by having Doyle give her his Visions from the TPTB. As for Wesley, I can't say I disagree that he provides some comic relief but so did Doyle most times. But Wesley also has Watcher know-how about demons that the others don't have. Hope this helps your understanding of the show a little.

  • March 4, 2001, 8:18 p.m. CST

    Lowly question

    by Skeletron

    What happened to Lyle Gortch the Vampire Cowboy?

  • March 4, 2001, 8:19 p.m. CST

    Those AICN geniuses! They figure out a way to have a Buffy/Angel

    by Vincent D.

    They even hinted that Joss himself reads these boards and their fanboy drivel. Talk about a formula for major page-views. I really have to applaud it. (Note: Nothing wrong with a Buffy talkback, in fact, before next week's rerun, perhaps a simple "talkback" like Coax used to have would be in order. Now, the "internet postings" being a veiled reference to AICN, I doubt it. there are quite a few Buffy boards out there, and many of them much more condusive to discussion than this one. So, 'till Joss adds something about hot-pockets into an episode, I think we can take that as wishful thinking.) Oh yea, and I haven't seen the Tara-centric episode that's going to come on this Tuesday evening. I'm really excited, since I felt somewhat cheated with all the "is she a demon" tension and never really got to see the resolution. (Sorry, Herc's FAQs just aren't enough to really do it for me...)

  • March 4, 2001, 8:52 p.m. CST

    Hey Skeltron...

    by Magnum PI

    Lyle Gortch was last seen in "Homecoming"(Episode 3.5). He was taking part in a hunt for Buffy and Faith that was called Slayerfest'98 and organized by vampire Mr.Trick. In the confusion Cordelia was mistaken for Faith and she managed to scare Lyle into fleeing for his life from Sunnydale. He hasn't been seen since. The actor who portrayed him is named Jeremy Ratchford. He is now starring in a Canadian cop show called Blue Murder.

  • March 4, 2001, 9:22 p.m. CST

    Wesley is a better character than Doyle

    by Gray

    Seriously. I never really like Doyle. His character never contributed anything to the storyline except to deliver a one-liner and we already have Cordelia for that. My main problem with Doyle is that he can't research, he doesn't know any magic spell, and he's not even good in hand to hand combat. So what's the purpose of the character? to hang out in a bar and getting a hangover? I can't even see the potential in his character development. His problem with being half-demon wasn't very interesting and neither was his so-called 'dark' past. We already have Angel for that. Besides, if Doyle is still alive, Cordelia would be very expendable because up until Doyle's death, her role was nothing else but a chirpy secretary. In addition to this, while Doyle was still alive, the story was never about the three of them. It was always Angel and Doyle or Doyle and Cordelia. Angel and Cordelia never interact with each other. The death of Doyle and the arrival of Wesley changed all of that for the better. Now Angel interacts with Both Cordelia and Wesley as well as with Gunn. In addition to this, while Wesley is not good at hand to hand combat, he has a good marksmanship (esp with Gun), able to research and know some magic spell. He has a background in the council so he knows the deal with Faith et all. Without Wesley, I can't see the whole Faith arc that was shown in season 1 Angel would have worked. It wouldn't make any sense for Faith to kidnap Cordelia since she doesn't have any grudge towards Cordy. It would be even more sillier if she has to kidnap Doyle (had he still alive) because she didn't even know Doyle! With Wesley, however, it was personal and simple vendetta (just like it was with Faith vs Buffy) and that makes the episode very interesting because we are then forced to see the episode from both Faith and Wesley's perspective.

  • March 5, 2001, 1:03 a.m. CST

    Buffy and Angel Thoughts.

    by abner ravenwood

    The stage is clearly set for a serious transformation in Buffy's character. But not only due to her experience with Joyce, (that episode was brilliant, by the way) but also relating to the whole "You haven't even begun to become what you are" thing that Tara mentioned at the end of last season. Buffy has avoided the darker side of herself -- I think she's actually afraid of it -- and I'm interested to see her confronted by a predicament similar to the one Angel faced in the elevator to Hell and arriving right back where he started. Buffy has lived in a clear cut world of light and dark, good versus evil. But now, she is confronted with the murky world of ambiguity. The transition from young adulthood to truly being a full-blown adult. The largest obstacles she has faced this season are "natural". Boyfriends. Illnesses. Relating to family and a sudden death. There are no villians here. And the villian she has faced, Glory, isn't really much, except...think of her this way: Glory, to my mind, represents stunted growth and perpetuated adolescence. She represents what Buffy could have become if she didn't experience all this ambiguity. She represents the people with the Peter Pan complex who cling to their teenage selves in the midst of adulthood. (Which leads me to wonder, who is Glory's father? That's really who she's trying to get to with all this business, isn't she? Or perhaps I'm getting a little too psycho-babble. "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus and Gods are from Wherever the Hell GLory comes from") I could go on about all this but I have some reading to do and I need to write an email to this really great girl I know. Buffy and Spike should end up together. It's a ying and yang thing. Spike can help Buffy with her darker side...coming to terms with her "adulthood" and her "power" and Buffy could help Spike come over to the light. And Dracula NEEDS to come back. I love that episode. It's just so damn cool. As far as Angel goes, that green skinned karaoke guy has grown on me quite a bit. And the most painful experienced on TV was finding out that the Swami dude from "Guise will be Guise" turned out to be fake. That dude was one of the coolest characters ever. He was a cross between Yoda and a truck driver. He was brilliant and I wish there was some way to bring that aspect of Angel going through training back to the show. It added a lot -- it made things so much more -- profound, almost. -- (sorry, profound is the only word I can think of. It's 3:56am. Give me a break. I'd just say "cool" again but that's lame too. I'm outta here now.)

  • March 5, 2001, 6:42 a.m. CST


    by sundown

    well its not like Herc was hanging out by himself with them..still rage building...jealousy mounting...must put sniper rifle away...

  • March 5, 2001, 7:09 a.m. CST

    Ok... I'm an idiot so help me out here...

    by the_darkness

    Allright, well as i see it, that confused audience member was either being stupid or incredibley witty... so witty in fact, that i don't get what the fuck she meant and that makes me sooooo sad... okay, wait... in point number (9), what did she mean when she said "Will buffy remember or realize that she slept with angel?" Is that really funny on a planet that i'm not on? Does it have real meaning? Cuz it lost the hell out of me soooooooo... could someone just please explain that to me?

  • March 5, 2001, 7:51 a.m. CST

    Gosh darnit......its too bad I live in Oregun. I miss these eve

    by Smugbug

    Here's hopin that Team Whedon do make an appearance at the San Diego Comic Con this year. I'll be there and I'm sure by the time of their appearance will be needing a break from schlepping my portfolio around from publisher to publisher. Anyways - STILL am thinking of The Body ep. Can't shake it from my brain. Too good of a ep. It is VERY cool that Mr. Whedon actually has the story arcs figured out seasons in advance. And also very frightening...cuz now I really worry about whats going to happen! Gosh darnit again. Why can't Whedon treat these shows like every other mediocre drivel that is on TV these days? I kind of have a cool li'l idea for a upcoming Buffy OR Angel ep? Have either the Buffster or Angel go on Blind Date and play off on the whole reality TV genre. Just a thought. BUT, let me close with this: These two shows are the best things on TV right now. Okay okay, lets throw in Malcolm in the Middle....

  • March 5, 2001, 7:59 a.m. CST

    Best Performances of the night

    by RSAChuck

    Charisma Carpenter was right in that Alyson Hannigan gave an excellent performance in "The Body". Personally, I don't think I breathed during the whole episode. But I have to say I was extremely shocked by how Emma Caulfield's Anya both reacted and was "acted". For a character that is normally used as comic relief, and very minor commentary, she was both impressively written in "The Body" and extremely well-played by Ms. Caulfield. I have a new respect for both the character's reason for being, and the actress herself. I was completely blown away by the scenes in the college dorm. This, of course, is mitigated by the fact that I was blown away by the whole episode and everyone in it. Sarah Michelle Gellar deserves an award for first 10 minutes alone! Thanks Team Whedon for consistantly providing the best television has to offer.

  • March 5, 2001, 8:46 a.m. CST

    What Buffy remembering sleeping with Angel meant....

    by fivebyfive

    I guess you didn't watch about Angel early on in it's season last year, I think it was about the 4th or 5th episode maybe. Anyways, it was after the Thanksgiving episode of Buffy. Angel showed up and was just in the background, didn't let Buffy know he was there. She found out in the end that he had been there and in the following Angel episode, she goes to LA "to visit her father" and stops by to see Angel. While talking in his old office a demon storms in and the two then track after it. Angel gets some of its blood on its hand and it turned him human. So then he meets back up with Buffy in the daylight and the two kiss. After discussing their possible future, the two make love and spend the night together. However the demon that turned Angel human is still alive, Angel learns of this and goes after it in his own. However he doesn't have his old powers. Buffy finds out about it from Cordy and she goes to help him. Angel gets his ass kicked but Buffy saves him and kills it. Angel then goes to meet the oracles to find out about his future. They tell him that Buffy will die. This is a result of Angel being human and not being able to fight and help her. Plus being human and with Buffy, she would be worried about him and always trying to protect him. So he asks them to change him back to his former vamp self. They agree, catch is they will take the day back making everyone forget what happened that day, only Angel would remember the events so that he would not repeat them. So he goes back to his apartment and tells Buffy, with only a couple minutes before the day would repeat. It was really touching, with them kissing & holding each other. She says she will never forget repeatedly before the change. Then the episode ends with the day starting over, Angel kills the demon right away (they didn't know how to kill it at first) and Buffy just leaves without any real goodbye.

  • March 5, 2001, 10:14 a.m. CST

    by I am_NOTREAL

    Goes to show Whedon at least seems to realize what he's doing ain't high art, unlike some folks around these parts. Now if he would only apologize for helping drive the final stake into the heart of the Alien franchise, I might be motivated to give Buffy a THIRD chance to show me why it's ruined so many pairs of pants around here...

  • March 5, 2001, 10:33 a.m. CST


    by the_darkness

    Oh... I can't beleive i forgot that!! hahaha.. the second you said about that episode (Which was called "I will remember you". It's scary how i have a photographic memory when it comes to buffy and angel episode names but somehow forget the actual episodes) I remembered it. Except when i read that question, i was like "How the fuck could she forget that she slept with him? He fucking turned evil and killed gile's girlfriend... what the fuck!". So yeah... but why the hell would buffy ever remember that? The whole point of that episode was to cause angel as much pain as possible and there's no way in hell buffy could remember it because the only person it actually happened to was angel because the powers that be made it so the day would never happen.. my real question would be do the powers that be (not just the oracles as it was in that particular episode) remember that? Not that it's important to the plotline of the show or any interesting story arc... it would just be interesting to see how exactly time and space function on other planes in the buffy-verse... anyway... has anyone heard my darktower/buffy theories? Does anyone agree? Come on!! Someone has to agree... for god's sake!!!!!! okay i'm leaving now... :) bye bye

  • March 5, 2001, 10:57 a.m. CST

    Mr. Touchdown:

    by Diz

    Aliens 4 was a movie- and Joss was just the writer. I am sure you must understand that in Hollywood, a writer has almost no say in how a movie turns out. This is why Joss prefers TV, and why he does not like working in the movies. But, for your information, he also had a hand in writing Speed, Toy Story, Twister, and X-Men, to name a few. Maybe not high art, but certainly movies that did very well at the box office and were quite entertaining. And most critics would agree that it is high time BUFFY got some major recognition by way of a few Emmys. Not that Joss needs the recognition to validate what a great job he is doing (which is what I think he meant; he is being modest), but it is perhaps one of the best shows on TV. You know what I don't understand? Why people need to come to talkbacks just to tell everyone there what idiots they are for liking what they like... What is the point? OK, Mr. TD, you're obviously better than all of us, we here at the BUFFY TBs have no taste or inteligence. As such, I don't know why you would be seen here. So go back to your little X-Files talkback and let us enjoy BUFFY.

  • March 5, 2001, 12:26 p.m. CST


    by I am_NOTREAL

    Boo-hoo. What, can't stand anyone questioning the might of Buffy? If you love it so much, and are at all secure in that, why on earth do you give a crap what I think? It's called an opinion, which is kinda sorta the WHOLE REASON for talkbacks. And no, I won't stop wondering why people love it, so just feel free to ignore my posts on the subject from now on, if you're capable. Because you know, it's impossible to love something if anyone else has anything at all negative to say about it, or, God forbid, doesn't understand why others like it and has the audacity to pose that question in a talkback. And Twister sucked, too. "Evil tornado hunters" my A$$.

  • March 5, 2001, 1:32 p.m. CST

    What the hell am I doing on the East Coast?

    by Sylvia Simon

    Can't imagine WHAT I've been doing with my time, really. I would have clapped until I cried like a little baby girl when Charisma said that Alyson's acting was incredible in "The Body". Actually, I'm still misty about the episode as I type.

  • March 5, 2001, 2:10 p.m. CST

    What I can't stand is this, Mr.Touchdown

    by Diz

    When people completely miss my point. I could give a crap if you like BUFFY or hate it. I enjoy the show. If you don't, it won't lessen my enjoyment. What I stated in my last post, and what I will repeat (since you seem to have a hard time getting it) is this: why would someone who is not a fan of a particular show troll on a board devoted to the show? I am not questioning your right to post here, just your reasons. You don't offer any support for not liking the show, you insult the people who do like the show, and you get all pissy when I call you on it. Feel free to have any opinion you want. If you would like me (and other people) to explain why we like the show, ask, and I am sure many people will explain it. If you want to come to the table with some legitimate gripes about the show, come forth. And yeah, people here will defend the show, because, GUESS WHAT- this is a talkback about BUFFY and it will attract people who love the show. A revolutionary idea, I know. If you don't like the show and can't at least articulate why, then why are you here?

  • March 5, 2001, 3:16 p.m. CST

    Hey SleazyG...

    by Magnum PI

    I don't know if what you are saying about Glen Quinn is true or not because you seem to be implying that you have insider information that we just were not privy to at the time. You may be right but what I reported about Doyles departure came straight from Joss Whedon. He was asked about this at the WizardWorld Con in Chicago last August and that was the answer he gave. He may have just been covering but I don't think so. It is well documented that he has story arcs planned out many months in advance and the early death of Doyle seemed to be the perfect set up for Cordy becoming "Vision Girl".

  • March 5, 2001, 3:33 p.m. CST

    One more thing SleazyG...

    by Magnum PI

    The "official" reason that Elizabeth Rohm (Kate) disappeared from the show for a while was because she was working on another series called "Bull". It was a cable show and she was a regular and not just a guest star like on Angel. Kate's recent dismisal from the LAPD and reconciliation with Angel would suggest that she might soon be a regular cast member. I'm not trying to slag you SleazyG but your explanations don't seem to have anything to back them up besides your word. If things were really as bad as you say then I don't know how it was kept out of the press.

  • March 5, 2001, 4:24 p.m. CST

    the best quote from "the body"...

    by kobayashi

    ...had to be in the morgue when Willow looks at Buffy and says, "You should eat something..." How true! Sarah really needs to put on some weight. That scene with Buffy and Tara on the couch just highlighted how thin she is. Amber is looking much better that Sarah at this point. Does anyone else think so?

  • March 5, 2001, 4:26 p.m. CST

    R_Nathan: Angel & Darla

    by superninja

    My feeling is that she was a metaphor for Angel to save himself. If Angel could save someone as irredeemable as Darla, then he himself has hope. In fact, he said this at the beginning of last EP before he kicks her to the curb.

  • March 5, 2001, 4:32 p.m. CST

    these talkbacks are most humorous tonight...

    by kobayashi

    ...much better than wasting time watching crap sitcoms...

  • March 5, 2001, 4:32 p.m. CST


    by superninja

    I have also heard the same story about the actors acting up. Came from people who work on the set, so, vicious rumor? I doubt it...they all like Boreanaz.

  • March 5, 2001, 7:16 p.m. CST

    About Doyle and the vision thing, SleazyG...

    by ms.pointy

    ...Sorry to burst one of your assertions, but it was established in a couple of "Angel" episodes that The Powers That Be gave Doyle his "Gift". He usually brings this up when the images aren't easily identifiable or the pain is particularly excruciating. It was never attributed to his demon half. As for the claimed lack of precedent regarding the transfer of abilities, Buffy's catching a near-terminal case of telepathy from exposure to the mouthless demons in "Earshot" and Angel's becoming human in "I Will Remember You" sort of contradicts that, doesn't it?

  • March 5, 2001, 9:39 p.m. CST

    Responses To Magnum PI and Superninja

    by R_Nathan

    I understand your reasons for your explanation, but Angel's obsession with Darla still doesn't make sense to me. It's been established that when he got his soul back, he was filled with pain and guilt for what he'd done. He's never shown any compunction about fighting evil before. Someone posted that Joss wants Angel to be a metaphor for a recovering addict. But I don't think that's really come across. Has it seemed like Angel had a temptation to be a bloodsucking demon again? As for Wolfram and Hart being good villains, I deal with real Los Angeles lawyers every week, and they're far worse than Wolfram and Hart, - espcailly that wimp Lindsey. Joss seems like he's gone out of his way to portray Lindsey as an inept loser. With respect to Wesley, as I said, he's an entertaining character - and they're trying to make him a more forceful character, but he'll never be convincing as an action hero. Never. Not even on the level of Xander or Willow. And Angel needs action heros on at least the level of Xander and Willow if he's going to effectively fight evil. Superninja said Angel wanted to save Darla because if he could save her, then he can save himself. But why is Darla different from any other villain on the show? Why didn't Angel try to save the Master, or the Mayor? The show seemed to be suggesting that Angel had feelings for Darla from when they were a vamp couple, but Angel was supposed to have put all that behind him. Or so I thought. I read somewhere that Joss sees Angel as a recovering addict- meaning he's tempted to be a vampire again - but if that's supposed to be the case, I don't think they've done a good job of establishing that. I liked Angel when he was brooding because of guilt. But he won't be much of a hero if he's brooding because he wants to be a bloodsucking demon again.

  • March 6, 2001, 12:53 p.m. CST


    by Domi'sInnerChild

    I usually don't root for characters to get killed in the Buffy universe, but her whinny ass needs to go. The only problem is she's so annoying, you can't off her in a dramatic, gut-wrenching fashion like a Miss Calender or anything. Maybe on one of the "lighter" episodes she can have her brains sucked out my a slime demon. But then, the demon gets an upset stomache and pukes out Kate's brains. Then Angel and Co could slip around in Kate's brains. The gay green demon could sing the theme to Titanic in the background. Pratfalls and comedy ensue (okay, I got way kiddy silly there).

  • March 7, 2001, 11:32 a.m. CST

    Here, Here I agree! Ms. Gellar needs to eat a nice meal and fle

    by Smugbug

    really. Someone take thee to a bakery! A deli! A nice restaurant that doesn't serve psuedo health food via S. Cali style. In other words - you get nothing on your plate but a baby corncob and nicely planted bamboo shoots over some romaine and carrots and maybe tofu. Get the chick a steak. Prime Rib. Damn, Buffy needs some buffing!

  • March 7, 2001, 3:46 p.m. CST

    Make Kate a regular!!

    by fivebyfive

    I totally disagree, Kate is great!! That shows in how they have kept her around so long, let her survive last week. I really hope to see more of her, it was great having her three weeks in a row.

  • March 7, 2001, 4:36 p.m. CST

    No.... KILL KATE! KILL KATE!!!!

    by Domi'sInnerChild

    I try to be like Scully, only I'm not interesting. I try to be tough, but my role is always a damsel in distress or weak torn in Angel's side. I was supposed to have some spark with David B. onscreen, but there is none. I have bad hair. I have no good lines written for me. I'm too lame to prove demons are real in a created world that it should be pretty easy (I.E. Angel under arrest). I'm not even cute enough to draw attention onscreen. Who am I? KILL HER ALREADY!

  • March 8, 2001, 7:15 a.m. CST

    Keep Kate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    by fivebyfive

    Let's see who has been appearing since early on in season 1, who despite doing another show & other projects, the writers/producers have worked around her busy schedule to keep her around when they could just write her out. Who has the bad hair, I think you're thinking of Cordy there. They made the Scully reference last year, to which Kate said she's more of a Mulder.

  • March 9, 2001, 7:57 a.m. CST

    weight and money

    by zippy-zip

    I saw on an entertainment show that Hollywood is again going thin and Gellar who was a size two was told to lose weight for a movie role. Scooby-Doo? Didn't Angel find a bag of money at the hotel? I thought that was how he got the hotel. Speaking of money, where did Buffy get her money to pay Spike for his help when she was still doing that - before she cut him out.

  • March 9, 2001, 12:41 p.m. CST

    No, I assure you. KILL KATE! KILL KATE!!!!

    by Domi'sInnerChild

  • March 9, 2001, 12:48 p.m. CST

    No, I assure you. KILL KATE! KILL KATE!!!!

    by Domi'sInnerChild

    Much like Scully, she now "believes". Either way, she's still a one-dimensional copy of a character from another show thrown in so Angel has his "link to the man". The show would be better off with Skanky or whatever his name was from Forever Knight. They serve the same purpose in the show and equally lame. Just because it's a lot of work to fit her onto the show ISN'T a positive, just another reason to kill her off. I think it's like a bad investment, they keep trying and trying to build it up so they can unload it with some sort of payoff, but it just isn't happening. She's the eToys of the Buffy universe, the time to close shop is now.

  • March 9, 2001, 12:50 p.m. CST

    On weight and boobs

    by Domi'sInnerChild

    I was watching the first season of Buffy last week and SMG looked A LOT better with a little meat on her. She had a nice rack that became GREAT when she went the wonderbra route. Somebody, please give that woman a cracker.

  • March 10, 2001, 8:41 p.m. CST

    The Women of the Buffyverse

    by Lt. Torello

    Joss & Co. are the ONLY TV producers who get that women have to be smart and funny as well as good looking to be truly sexy. That's why almost every woman on Buffy/Angel is a full-powered man-magnet. Anya is my current favorite (esp in "The Body"). I liked Kate last season, but her character's not working for me this year -- just too much the cliche humorless cop who had to "turn in her badge and gun." MOST IMPORTANT -- WHEN ARE WE GONNA SEE FAITH AGAIN?! Really, Joss, don't make me have to rent "Bring It On" to get my required dose of vitamin Eliza.

  • March 10, 2001, 11:35 p.m. CST

    Eliza Spin Off

    by Domi'sInnerChild

    Faith in Jail Bait the Series: Women Behind Bars. Wow, now that's a ratings smash. I can't believe they're not using it, maybe they're piling up episodes to show on Skinemax.

  • March 11, 2001, 1:31 a.m. CST

    Oh, and KILL KATE!

    by Domi'sInnerChild

    Angel hasn't killed a major character this year, it's time for the sacrifice. Let her do something heroic to save Angel or whatever and then they can bury her next to her dad. Maybe Angel can blame himself for her death. THEN SHE'D HAVE PURPOSE! Darla and Dru snacking on her wouldn't be bad either.

  • April 28, 2001, 2:33 a.m. CST

    I thnk Kate may die

    by alivic

    okay, my resoning for this is... I heard Elisabeth Rohm got a role as an assistant District Attorney on Law and Order. I can't see her playing both 'cop kate' and 'lawyer whoever', so chances are, she dies.

  • Feb. 3, 2002, 12:47 p.m. CST


    by sledgehammer5050

    You guys are talking like you are seasons behind? Is this post for UK people or something? We are on Angel season 3 right now where he has a SON now!

  • March 2, 2007, 1:19 p.m. CST

    good read

    by fatsackowind

    it's true.