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Attention Denver Geeks Who Saw PEARL HARBOR: Write In Like The Patriot Did!!! 1st Review Here!
SPOILER ALERT !!
Hey folks, Harry here... If you were at this screening last night... WRITE IN! I want to hear your thoughts on PEARL HARBOR. Is the film headed in the right direction? What bugged you? What did you love? How did it go? Inquiring minds like mine wanna know. The script had quite a bit of potential for a large scale war epic... and from the sound of this first review... seems like Bay is on the right track with it. Here ya go... BEWARE OF SPOILERS!
Hey Harry-
I just got back from seeing Pearl Harbor on our 3 1/2 story screen here in
the Mile High City tonight. 600 people packed the auditorium for the first
look at the new movie from Director Michael Bay. It was emphasized that
this was a rough cut with temp music (used Gladiator, Cast Away, Legends of
the Fall, etc.) My first impression is that this film is still early in
it's editing, but they have a lot of excellent material to work with.
First off, this cut clocked in at just short of 3 hours. It is split up
into three very distinct parts. Hour one is the building up of the
characters and the relationships between everyone. Affleck and Hartnett are
best friends and have been since childhood. They even join the military
together- and Affleck falls in love with a nurse (Beckinsale.) He
subsequently volunteers for duty on the front in England and is shot down.
Presumed dead, Hartnett falls in love with Beckinsale. Note I said
"presumed"- figure it out. You also see detailed plans by the Japanese
admirals and how they collected much of their intelligence about Pearl
Harbor. There is a lot of character development for this first hour.
The second hour: Hell descends. The Japanese attack and dear lord, it is a
solid hour of explosions, death, chaos in the hospitals, trying to mobilize
a defense, and the true destruction of an entire fleet. There were several
unfinished effects from this point on in the film, but overall- looking very
nice and very tight throughout the disaster.
The third hour: The aftermath and revenge. Roosevelt's speeches, the
retaliation on Tokyo, bringing all of the characters back together and tying
up of loose ends.
Things to watch for- Bay has used a very strange method of filming the
scenes in the hospitals during the attack. Everything is intentionally out
of focus and then suddenly sharp focuses on one person in the scene. it's
a little difficult to watch, but it really brings you into the confustion.
Cuba Gooding Jr.- Watch for him. if you blink, you'll miss him. He's been
relegated to being onscreen for at most 8 to 10 minutes. But he owns those
minutes.
Overall, this is a very cool movie. Action and war for the guys and romance
and drama for the women. It can use a little cutting to tighten the pacing
a touch, but it sure is beautiful to watch.
Call me "The Patriot." :-)
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I will have to watch for this movies sounds promising !
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If he does the grown up job on this that I feel he's capable of, Pearl Harbor WILL be my favorite film of the year. I loved his other films, and like Harry I cried at Armageddon, but I recognize a different approach(especially editing-wise) will be needed for this film to be great.
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Mar 01, 2001 11:02:26 PM CST
Ah yes, only 3 posts, and already someone's bashing Bay
by mr_intimidation
of course, without ever having seen the movie. Why do you people hate Bay so much? Is it because he's a good filmmaker who knows how to push buttons? Or do you just hate the patriotic stuff in his movie? Move to French, you fuckin' maggots. And while you're at it, take the Baldwins with you.
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...I hear the CGI flying sequences are incredible. From what they shot how did they look?
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Maybe Michael Bay has finally matured as a filmmaker? Maybe the days of 'The Rock' and 'Armageddon' are behind us? I hope so. I think it is much more powerful to move a person with emotion and drama rather than action and thrills. One of the most incredible things about Saving Private Ryan was that everyone felt for those people. The destruction and decimation of the soldiers at the opening of the film was probably the most terrifying ten minutes I've spent in a theater. But that isn't what pulled me into the story. It was the little things. It was Matt Damon talking about the last night he spent with his brothers before heading off to boot camp. It was Tom Hanks remembering his life as a school teacher back home. It was human and it was real. That is what Pearl Harbor needs to be. An emotional movie with good characters. Let's hope this works.
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i bash bay and bruckheimer because their movies just aren't entertaining - more like insulting. and yes, the patriotic crap does get old after a while. btw, you say he's (bay) a good filmaker. the rock?? armageddon?? those were good films? is that what passes for entertainment these days. interesting. oh yeah, just what does "move to french" mean, anyway.
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The flight CGI scenes were pretty damn cool (the completed ones anyway- a lot of them were still in final stages of completion and still had some clean up coming). There were lots of scenes with the Japanese zeros shooting people on the ground, and I hope that they don't CG in the blood splatters and guts flying- it was impactful enough as is. It's hard to talk about the action and the violence when you remember that you're probably sitting in the auditorium with someone who lived through it....
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Were did you see the trailer for this movie I cant find it .
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"Action and war for the guys and romance and drama for the women"?? Hmmm... Could those phony, overpaid simplistic hollywood marketers be right? Perhaps the Michael Bay fans simply get the movies they deserve.
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I wonder how much of the "retaliation" they'll show. Maybe we get to see the attack on Hiroshima with a lot of children and women dying of radiation. I don't wanna judge this movie before I've even seen it but I'm sceptical to say the least. If there's at least one Japanese Character in it that is not just cardboard and not just pure evil I'll be surprised. Michael Bay is indeed a gifted Filmmaker but as with Roland Emmerich (who is not) may just be wrong for historical / political movies (like the Patriot which ended up a good looking but extremely manipulative piece of propaganda). I'd be happy to be proven wron but I think Bay just lacks the intelligence and sensibilities needed for that sort of material (Spielberg for example does, even though SPR ended up a very patriotic film as well - just not one sided). But as I said - if it doesn't end up an anti-Japanese feel good film but actually tries to show both sides I will be pleasantly surprised.
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Sounds like this movie will be a decent flick! Good news after the negative script reviews of Planet of the Apes that just popped up on line. I'm glad to see the trend in recent years of Hollywood going back to the glory of the old-school epic. "Braveheart", "Gladiator", and the like. "Pearl Harbor" sounds on the right track. I hope Hollywood continues this trend. Mquarrie's "Alexander the Great" and Scorsese's "Gangs of New York" sound pretty promising in that regard. Now, let's just hope that "Crusades" and "Gates of Fire" will also get the coveted green light.
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Actually, i was pleasantly surprised with how the Japanese characters were treated. They were not portrayed as evil, but as tormented by what they were about to do. When an underling was complementing the Japanese Admiral on his genius in planning the attack, the Admiral replied; "A real genius would find a way not to go to war." i was expecting a lot of Japan-bashing, and was surprised to be denied that. Very nice and my compliments with the treatment!!! (And no, I didn't warn about spoilers in my report because if you don't know what happened at Pearl Harbor for god's sake, you deserve no warning for the beatings about the head and shoulders that you deserve!!!0
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Thanks for the info anything else you can add would be welcomed of course dont want to much or there would be no point in watching the movie but little tid bits here and there are always welcome!
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If this line alone was the only line serving as Japan's "humanistic" side of the war, I'd be happy with it. A VERY powerfull line indeed. :) -
Yeah, the trailer is impressive, with the zeroes flying over Oahu and the music from THE THIN RED LINE blaring, but can we really expect a good movie? Although I can get around the Ben "I lucked into being the next Jack Ryan" Affleck factor, I cannot get past the Michael Bay factor. It's too bad Michael Jackson isn't making a new Pepsi commercial, because Bay would would blow his head clean off this time around, and Bruce Willis or Nick Cage would save all his brain matter in a white sequined glove.
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you can use 3 words to sum up Micheal Bay's movies, big, loud & brainless! this guy is exactly what's wrong with hollywood these days. yeah just put in as much explosions/crashes/flames in a picture & the crowds will come & crank up that dolby system to the max. bruckheimer & bay=SUCKS. if you folks really want to see a WW2 movie this year wait for WINDTALKERS.
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RE: "I wonder how much of the "retaliation" they'll show. Maybe we get to see the attack on Hiroshima with a lot of children and women dying of radiation"-- The movie ends at the time of the Doolittle Raid on Tokyo. Look it up if you don't know when/how that happens, but it's right after Pearl Harbor and was our immeditate "retalition" on Japan. RE: "Were did you see the trailer for this movie I cant find it ."-- If you have heard of the Magazine-that-comes-with-a-DVD called "Total Movie", then you know where you could have seen the trailer. This mag has put out 3 issues bi-monthly and will ship a 4th before folding due to cutbacks frm its publisher which is closing down 20 titles. The 1st issue featured Bedazzled and the 2nd featured Pearl Harbor and the 3rd featured Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. Each issue had a free DVD chock full of all sorts of Trailers, Shorts, and sample of DVD Supplements. I'm sorry to see it go. The 1st Disc even had the short "Troopers", which is a Cops-meets-StarWars thing that rolls you on the floor! The 2nd Disc had the Pearl Harbor trailer, natch. RE:"btw, you say he's (bay) a good filmaker. the rock?? armageddon?? "-- Yes, I *damn* well say those were good films, that...like ID4...took you for an action-packed ride and never much intended to be extremely "realistic". These are sit-back, forget-your-worries, don't nit-pick, just-enjoy kinds of films that (I don't know abou the rest of you) I need to watch every once in a while. He's made two of the best. Now he's turning his attention to something a bit more "real", and I do _pray_ he gets it right. It seems to be a "Titanic" approach to Pearl Harbor events...a fictional romance woven into real-life dramatic events. Hey, it worked for Cameron. And, even if in the end Bay screws it up, it can still be a good film. Another movie that I rank among my all-time favorites is the 1965 John "The Duke" Wayne film "In Harm's Way", also starring Kirk Douglas, Patricia Neal, Burgess Meredith, and even has Carrol "Archie Bunker" O'Connor! It was directed by another love-him-or-hate-him director/producer in his time, Otto Preminger (remember him as "Mr. Freeze" in the Adam West "Batman" series?). I was excited the other day to read that "In Harm's Way" is hitting DVD on May 22 (though not excited that its Paramount DVD so I'll pay too much for not much...I hope I at least get a trailer this time for my $2). Back to Bay - and Bruckheimer - I'll have to say many of us ought to agree to disagree where these guys are concerned. But, if you think Bay sucks, why are you even reading a Pearl Harbor post on AICN? Piss off, and go troll your negative comments on Usenet. Cheers! :)
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I never got to the point of mentioning "In Harm's Way"...it is another film which took Pearl Harbor and wove fictional romantic events around the real-life story. It was *much* more fictionalized than "Pearl Harbor" sounds like it will be, but a great (enjoyable) flick nonetheless. If Bay makes a film as good as this then I will be pleased. If he makes a better film then this, then I will applaud him. Also, to anyone who complains that movies like this and Titanic and U-571 are action films that mis-teach history to the kids/young adults who watch them, I'll say two things: Films that fictionalize history have been around forever. 36 years ago "In Harm's Way" did it. 62 years ago "Gone With the Wind" did it. Don't get your history facts from entertainment-based movies that don't stress that it is an actual documentary of real events...assume it's not. Learn history *facts* in school (if they didn't buy cut-rate textbooks), from a decent encyclopedia or even surf the net. But I'll hate to hear how "Pearl Harbor" is "screwing up history"...this film like most isn't about teaching, it's about entertaining and earning up to $10 per ticket (hello, Manhattan!). :)
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For those Bay-lovers, know where (we) Bay-haters are coming from. People can justify claims that McDonald's is the best restaurant because they "push the right buttons" and hype up the salt and sugar disguising there's no real meat. Bay-haters don't think this makes great food, even though they serve a gazillion burgers. So, you can justify that ID4 and Armaggeden were "thrillrides" though the screenplay and direction are Mad-Lib, color-by number hack jobs, but you're missing the woes of the haters. Aren't movies more than dazzling visuals? Now, Bay's visual style is truly exceptional, but like the above poster said, that alone doesn't make a great director. And I know that sometimes people just want a Big Mac without worrying about taste, nutrition, etc., but give me a "RofLostArk" or "Jaws" or something thrilling yet fulfilling instead of the bowl of whipped creme fluff that are Con Air and The Rock.
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You think a Disney-owned company is going to let a Japan bashing movie get made these days? Holy geez, in this PC era even NEO-NAZIS get the sensitive treatment. I don't expect Japan-bashing, I expect kissing Japanese ass to let them know that "It was your grandfathers, we know YOU didn't mean it." I don't have any problem with that as long as it's not so blatant a 5-year old can spot it, like every other "subtlety" in a Michael Bay movie. Oh and Harry? Normally I don't say shit about things like this, but whoever does your GIFS can kiss my white ass for doing that disrespectin' Charlie Brown parody. Never fuck with Peanuts. If you don't like it, GO TO FRENCH!!! (lol)
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Nothing wrong with the rock. it was pure mindless fun. there were some terrible moments
"yu sturl mah homveee"
but It was still fun. And you got to see Connery swear....I couldn't remember the last time I saw Connery say "fucking" that just sold me.
This film sounds fairly generic though.....give me Tora! Tora! Tora! over this.
Lupe
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Tora Tora Tora had something this doesn't - REAL PLANES! The CGI does look good, but nothing will take away from the thrill of seeing a squadron of real Zeros being chased by a flight of Spitfires. Yes, Spitfires, check out "Battle of Britain" if you want to see what became the gold standard for flight sequences in the movies for years. And every one of those planes is real.
The Canadian Warplane Heritage and the Confederate Airforce are doing their best to keep some of these old warbirds flying - check them out, support them in their endeavours. -
line and sinker for this one i have confidence in jerry and bay looking forward to it
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Mar 02, 2001 6:14:41 AM CST
"Move to French, you fuckin' maggots" Haha, pure class.
by wesley snipes
Do you hate Bay because he makes simplistic, manipulative and stupid films or because his technique (specifically the approach to editing) is awful? For me, it's only the latter. The former is true, but it's true for a lot of filmmakers and I don't mind popcorn flicks. But his editing? What's up with that BS? Frankly, I think he has some beautiful shots, but he cuts away from them way too fast. And the "simulate the chaos" excuse for his epileptic editing holds no water: Compare the shuttle crash in Armageddon with the opening battle in Saving Private Ryan. Both are chaotic and intense, but you can always tell what's going on during the SPR sequence. Can't say the same for Armageddon. And isn't that the key difference? To elicit certain feelings (chaotic intensity) while still keeping it perfectly clear as to what's occurring? Movies are about telling stories after all. Still, I don't mind rapid editing - It's a fine line between just right and too much. Let's hope Pearl Harbour falls on the just right side. Sounds like Bay may have changed his approach a bit (is this true, patriot?).
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Mar 02, 2001 6:57:34 AM CST
Micheal Bay is good if you like your movies looking like AT&T co
by gsolo
Might as well have given it to Cameron, they both can't direct actors but I'll tell ya, their films gross a lot of money...and that's all that really matters even when dealing with an important and sensitive subject like Pearl Harbor. While we're at it, Damon Affleck is a stupid asshole.
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I appreciate Bay's movies like I appreciate a good fireworks display. Its fast, bright, loud and makes you OOH and AHH. Nobody has ever tried to say that Emmerich, Spielberg, or Bay had set out to make documentaries. We go to the movies to be entertained DAMN IT. If you want a history lesson, read a textbook. By the way, by bombing Japan and ending the war, thousands of lives were actually SAVED. The only thing I apologize for are the innocents that were killed.
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Well, look, folks, "Armageddon" was neither the semi-great film Harry and others seem to think (or at least I think that's what they seem to think) or the piece of utter crap some have labelled it. It's solid entertainment, professionally crafted, with a script that veers between well done and ridiculous (Bruce Willis goes after Ben Affleck with a shotgun, uh-huh--I don't care how mad he was, that's an idiotic moment). "The Rock" was an interesting idea with a few moments. It was better than "Con Air," at least. Bay, as a director, is much better than Simon West. He probably isn't going to make high art with this one, but I have to admit the preview looked OK. The scene that followed the bomb's perspective down through the boat hull was interesting, but is that good filmmaking or just showing off your technical virtuosity? Dunno, but Cameron did the same thing with "Titanic" and got a boatload of Oscars for it. Then, of course, Cameron had a bit more artistic cachet at that point than Bay does now, having actually made some critically praised flicks. If this movie gets great reviews and cleans up at the box office it may be a contender come Oscar time next year. What bothers me is that SOOOOOOO CGI-fakey looking scene of all the Zeros in flight. OK, maybe they did their research and maybe that many planes were actually in the sky. Or maybe they're just going for effect--either way, that bothers me...but I'll wait and see how it all hangs together. Oh yeah, "French" is probably where they speak "France," and I have the lingering suspicion that some our base are belong to them.
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fuck Monterey Jack too!
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Yeah, I hope we get to see the attack on Hiroshima. And I hope we get to see pictures of the Bataan Death March, the Rape of Nanking, the Manchurian Death Camps, the building of the Burma-Thailand Railroad (Bridge on the River Kwai anyone?), the Korean "comfort women" forced into prostitution and all the other atrocities that the Japanese committed on Allied POW's and the occupied peoples of China, Korea, The Philippines, Viet Nam, Thailand, Burma, Malaysia, and Singapore. Look folks, the Empire of Japan was not a bunch of cuddly little PC native people who were victims of white European aggression. They were in fact a bunch of militaristic, fascist, racist bastards. Remember, they were willing allies of the Nazis, which I think that says a lot in it self, and Hitler declared war on the US the day after Pearl Harbor as a sign of solidarity. In short, everything the Japanese got during the war, they richly deserved. And less you accuse me of jingoistic racism, I think it is safe to say that while the Japanese never came to terms with their war time past like Germany did, today the Japanese are a peace loving people, who are very generous giving aid money to developing countries and are a vital US ally. Oh and I'm really sorry the Navy sunk that fishing boat too.
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Remember this formula and it'll save you 8 bucks.
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The Zero's and Kates weren't all CGI. They used 2 real Zeros (one restored with new parts and one with original parts) and a retored Kate and used computers to make it look like hundreds were flying over Hawaii.
Those scenes of the flyovers and the people's reactions in the trailer are what have me hooked on seeing this. -
remember this formula and you'll save your eyes and mind from reading stupidity and snobbiness.
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The Pearl harbor attack could possibly have been prevented had The U.S. only listened to the reports of a japanese U-boat seen in the early morning hours off the coast of hawaii, or had they paid attention to a then "in development" type of monitoring system known as RADAR. However, fleet command at Pearl Harbor had absoulotely NO idea what the japanese were planning. Where the hell did you get your information?
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While it is true Roosevelt and the Joint Chiefs were egging Germany and Japan into attacking us (and why not? Bitch-slapping Nazis and making the world safe for democracy sounds like fun to me), they really thought the Japanese were going to attack the Philippines. Then the idea was our fleet would leisurely sail out from Pearl and administer a righteous ass-kicking. We really didn't think the Japanese had the smarts or the ability to attack Pearl Harbor. It was just luck that the carriers were out to sea and it was also luck that the Japanese went after the battle-ships and didn't bomb the base fuel dumps - if they had, what was left of the fleet wouldn't of had enough fuel to fight the battles of the Coral Sea or Midway. It just goes to show what kind of trouble you can get into with a racist attitude. Of course to be fair, the Japanese, being obnoxious racists themselves, really thought us round eyed barbarians were going to roll over and play dead after Pear Harbor. They were really quite surprised that the country was so pissed off that every single man (and quite a few women) in the US tried to join the Army on December 8. As George Washington said to Lord Cornwallis at the battle of Yorktown, "Don't fuck with the US!" (Or words to that effect).
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Not saying it's not a good movie, but could that one seem any MORE contrived? **I WILL ADMIT** I haven't researched the veracity of this story. So, if it is a true account (the trailer says based on a true story, but what's the "true" part--the seige?), I'll take this back...but come on, the admitted contrivances of "Saving Private Ryan" feel like a documentary compared to this. And that dialogue! Ed Harris -"He isn't dead yet. Because I haven't killed him." Ranks up there with Rambo. As Harrison Ford famously said to George Lucas: "You can type this sh*t, but you can't say it." I mean, JESUS!!!! Like I said, could be true, and I'll admit it if I turn out to be wrong, but that flick looks so Hollywoodized it boggles the mind. Then again, so does "Pearl Harbor," but maybe that's the point.
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I think "In Harm's Way" ROCKS!!!! I thought I was the only person in the world who had ever seen that movie. The plot was great (loved that scene where John Wayne takes his rusty old cruiser out thinking he is the only thing between Pear Harbor and a Japanese invasion fleet - now that is what America is all about), the battle scenes were cool and the Duke gets laid by Patricia Neal! Let me repeat that last part: THE DUKE GETS LAID!!! I think I have seen just about every John Wayne movie and there is never a hint of anything sexual in them except for this one. Holy Shit!
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Mar 02, 2001 9:07:06 AM CST
As Harrison Ford famously said to George Lucas: "You can type th
by wesley snipes
Hahaha. That's cool. When did that occur and what was it in reference to? Star Wars?
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I think this movie will be the turning point in the career of Mike Stenson. He has been Bruckheimer's right hand man for a couple of years now. His name is attached to so many huge flix but nobody seems to know who he is.
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You know, it would be really really naive to think that the US is all great and wonderful. We can be just as evil as the rest of the world. Before Japan attacked Pearl Harbor they were attacking Alaska. We *knew* what Germany was doing to the Jews and we didn't do anything. Could that be because we were/are racist against Jews? We had concentration camps for the Japanese Americans although it was "only for their protection". We sold arms to both sides during the war. We dropped The Bomb twice and those people are still feeling the effects today. Then we enter the war about a year before it ended and say that *we* won the war. I am not saying we didn't help but give me a break. England and France and especially Russia had a bigger part to play. It was after all Russia who took Berlin.
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I can't stand these whiny fools who try and argue that michael Bay is a bad filmmaker. Of course he is! That is why he makes huge summer block busters. That though bad are dizzyingly entertaining (at least if you see them on the big screen once) Stop trying to act smart by dropping film buzz words you heard on Ebert last weekend. Yes we know he sucks, we don't need your pseudo film intellectual analysis as to why. The fact that he makes movies with space shuttles that crash land on asteroids and blow them up with one nuclear warhead should be evidence enough.
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You are one of the only people here who seems to get it. While I agree that the Japanese innocents that were killed during the bombings of Nagasaki and Hiroshima are tragic victims of circumstance, the Japanese were a brutal, militaristic race that was on the same nationalism bend that Germany was. And I believe they still to this day have yet to offer a formal apology to China for the mini-Holocaust that occurred in Nanking. It is not in any of their text books, and the government is adamantly against talking about it. Not to say that all countries don't have their time of shame. How you deal with that history is important though. Whoever said that dropping the a-bombs on Japan saved lives was right too. An invasion of Japan would have been a bloodbath on a scale of proportions not yet seen by our country in the war. The Japanese were a brainwashed race. I could go on for hours, about the women throwing their children off of cliffs and then following their path instead of being taken captive. Almost all of them were following the samurai code: fight to the death for your emperor. Anything less is the ultimate shame.
And Mr. Touchdown: A little background on Enemy At the Gates. I think it looks great. And it is "based" on a true story. The Russians had a system for their snipers, in which they were given a higher rank of sniper for the amount of confirmed kills they recieved. The highest rank was that of Noble Sniper. I think maybe the only one to ever reach this was a guy named, Vassilyev, or something like that. He was a legend in the German and Soviet ranks. He had something like 170 confirmed snipes that resulted in deaths. What I believe isn't true, is that the Germs never called in their top sniper to duel it out with him. Regardless, looks like it will be great, as long as the love story takes a back seat.
By the way, might as well add that Michael Bay is the man. All you film snobs can say what you want, but he makes entertaining movies. Armaggeddon I didn't really like. It was blah. The Rock on the other hand, is awesome. Great action, great acting, a decent story. I could watch that one over and over. I think Pearl Harbor will hit it's mark.
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The Japanese attacked Alaska? I have never heard of this. Not to say that makes it untrue, but please go into detail. Secondly, the whole world was unaware of the true attrocities that were going on in the Nazi camps. Not until they were liberated were the full extent of the Nazi plan seen. And ya, we did put the Japanese in concentration camps, but they weren't killed and beaten. They were detained. This policy may not be great in hindsight, but think about the times. Think about what was happening in the world. What would have happened had the allies not defeated the Axis? Every measure was taken to make sure that the Axis did not come out victorious.
We entered the war a year before it ended? Not quite. We entered the war about 4 years before it ended and played a huge part in the victory, by forcing the Germans to fight on two fronts, and by battling the Japanese. In all of my reading though, it does seem that the Russians played the biggest part in winning the war. They were the ones who dealt the Nazis their death blow by repulsing them from Russia, and forcing their retreat.
As far as a secret Anti-Jewish plot by the US, you're way off. -
Ha, this talkback has given me more laughs then Benny Hill. Yes, Michael Bay is the antichrist and must have sold his soul to become a Hollywood director. Yes, with crap like "Pearl Harbor" and "Scooby Doo" being made is it any wonder so many of us people that admire thoughtful, well done cinema are disenchanted with the world. Hey, I'm American, but even I hate stupid, flag waving patiotism, it's just silly. The U.S. is far form being the best place on earth to live, what a joke. Movies like this and "The Patriot" are just manipulative propaganda. I guarantee they won't show one Japanese person in a good light, they'll all be super evil, diabolical fiends who are jealous of "beautiful" and "pure" America, total bullshit. Is it any wonder I moved to Scotland, but hey at least I didn't move to French. Ha Ha.
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long before this movie is projected on your local cinema screens, debates are already fired up well ahead of time in the minds of many people. personally i probably won't give the film much of a chance. i mean the pearl harbour bombing is being explained and ingrained into a group of young warriors by a hollywood blockbuster film-maker. that bugs me. he's free to do whatever he wants but the huge studio obviously decided to put it in the hands of an eye candy guy. i have to admit that all the cheesy patriotic stuff in saving private ryan made me feel uncomfortable and stupid. without ever seeing pearl harbour the blockbuster movie i already know everything about it - and i didn't like it very much. i wonder how this film will do in japan when they're made out to be satan's children?
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I agree that movies like "The Patriot" are crap. Mel Gibson's slaves aren't really slaves, they are employees, that is garbage. I am not one for blind patriotism either. When it comes to WW2, it is different though. We were fighting a foe that was bent on world domination. There is no arguing who was right and wrong in that war. Vietnam, different story, we didn't belong there. WW2 though, and the bravery shown by our forefathers in that war, does make me proud to be an American.
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I'm one of those who thinks Bay has great potential, but just hasn't had much of a chance to demonstrate it. You can gripe about him "selling out" all you want, but just think... If you were a director and Jerry Bruckheimer came to you and said, "I want you to direct next summer's hundred-million blockbuster," would you REALLY say 'no' just on artistic principles? Didn't think so. If you go and look, Pearl Harbor was written by the same guy who wrote Braveheart. While I'm not the massive fan of that film that many people are, few would call it a bad movie or script. So assuming Wallace wrote an equally good script, I think Bay could do a good job with it. The only question in my mind is whether he can restrain his urge to give it machine-gun editing. ... HEY PATRIOT - how was the editing? Armageddon-like, or more restrained?
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...when Bay-bashers would become a minority on this site. That, brings a *smile* on my face.
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go to the news section of michaelbay.com and see them
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Mar 02, 2001 10:16:57 AM CST
fuck you mr "i show no mercy (aka I have no brains)"
by looking-for-love
For the record, Bay didn't direct Con Air, Simon West did.
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He said it! The line that seemed to do it was SW, in the Falcon: "It'll take a few minutes for the navi-computer to come up with the exact coordinates." (that's not a direct quote, OK...quit flipping through your SW shooting scripts) And Ford certainly wasn't the only one who has a problem with Lucas' dialogue. But still: "He isn't dead yet - because I haven't killed him." WTF?!?!? When Harris said that in the preview for "Enemy" I seriously expected Stallone to pop up. God, here's a great chance for a realistic, gritty human-scale drama set against a wrenching historical event (a la "Pearl Harbor"). The jury is very much out, but I have this sneaking suspicion they've Hollywoodized it to all hell...
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Put... the bunny... back... in the... box.
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If you really think that the whole reason for the US bombing the Japanese was to kill as many innocent civilians as possible, then you are just dumb and self righteous. It was to incapacitate Japan as a military power, which it did. What would killing civilians do to end the war? Truman did not want to have to stage another amphibious landing on Japan, because the slaughter would have been infinitely worse than that of Normandy.
People are going to have their opinions on the use of the bomb. I respect that. It was done with the goal in mind to end the war. It reached it's goal.
You super liberals are unreal. Think about what this world would be like, had Japan and the Nazis won the war. In my mind, when I envision this, whatever steps we took to ensure this would not happen, are justified. -
Michael Bay is a perfect disposable filmmaker. i admit to being slightly caught up in Armaggedeon. I am saying this for the first time publicly, and I fear that I will be punished by the movie gods. Too late. Captain Caveman has been handed the greatest American tragedy. I quake at the thought of him scribbling all over this story wit his big box of Crayolas.
I have not seen this film,so I expect brick Brats for my comments. I am going on what i've seen in the trailers. The trailers look like they are going to reduce it to Titanic style sentimentality. After, Saving Pvt Ryan and The Thin Red Line, I cannot imagine Michael bay having anything important to say.
I reserve full judgment on bay until the release. bay's past record of virtual characters and stuff blowing up real good deoesn't bode well for a story that requires a filmmaker of some senitivity. I'm sure the action will be high octane,but I fear that the characters will be insubstantial shadow puppets.
BTW: It's pronounced JOhn Big Boo-TAY. Bigboot-TAY!! -
"US as bad as the nazis" I don't think so. Keep in mind that it was Japan that invaded China korea and bunch of other countries, it was japan that organized the systematic rape of countless women, it was Japanese soldiers that threw chinese babies in the air and laughed as they landed on bayonets, also keep in mind that it was Japan that brought the US into the Pacific war. Are you aware that if we didn't end the war when we did, it would have meant that the US would have had to mount a full scale invasion of the mainland? This would have resulted in several million deaths.
A lot of young american's grandfathers would have died, and guess what you wouldn't exist ( that is, if you even are an American, if not, then just shut the hell up)!
If the US didn't develop and use the a-bomb the nazis would have, and they would have used it relentlessly, probably eventually on their Jap allies.
Don't try to re-examine history. A great number of people most of whom were probably more intelligent than anyone on this board, have been doing so for 55 years. Most of them conclude taht dropping the bomb was the only real choice we had, if we knew its implications for future generations thaey may have reconsidered, but guess what, they didn't, by the summer of '45 WWII had killed 55 million people. The madness had to stop.
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I agree with the previous poster who compared Bay's films with junk food. It's why the term "popcorn movie" is so apropos -- it's popcorn, not fois gras. I remember one debate I had with an online film critic, where he argued, "Why settle for hamburger when you can have steak?" Well, some people don't _want_ steak every night. There's a certain grotesque pleasure to eating a big greasy hamburger fried on a grill that hasn't been cleaned since 1983, and there's a similarly basic pleasure to watching one of Michael Bay's films. Of course, if all you eat is greaseburgers, you end up fat and unhealthy. But that's not to say that you can't enjoy one once in a while -- just because a billion people do eat them every day doesn't invalidate their worth. Sorry for all this food talk -- my point is just that I think the anti-Bay critics take the position that bad is bad and that we should consume only cinematic haute cuisine. Personally, I like more balanced fare. And for you guys who bash films like Armageddon for being mindless entertainment with bad acting and lousy writing -- do you also hate the old Godzilla movies? Or Troma flicks? In other words, according to your own stated standards, you should hate these cult favorites as much as you hate Armageddon. Otherwise, you've got to admit that there is such a thing as a technically "bad" film that has valid artistic worth. The thing that annoys me about this Bay-bashing is that people get on these bandwagons where anything certain people do (Bay, Leonardo di Caprio) automatically sucks, and they come into it with their minds already made up. Oddly close-minded attitudes for people with such ostensibly enlightened, rarefied sensibilities.
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Ok, alot of these points are good. The fact though is, that EVERYONE was evil. We had an unconditional surrender before we ever dropped the bomb. We dropped to bomd to force an instant end to the war because if it would have gone on a few days longer the Soviets had a deal with Roosevelt to enter. And Truman didnt want to see that, he didnt want to split up Japan to the dread commies the way they had to split up Europe. Also, there was nothing "mini" about the Japanese death camps set up all through China. They killed MILLIONS. America just didnt give a shit because they were not white... So whats the reality? We used the most horrific weapon ever to scare a nation that allowed peasents to fight armored tanks with pitch forks (exagerated but not too far from the truth) while its leader stockpilled weapons. They killed more human beings then imaginable (its still like an abstract concept to me still after visiting the camps) and was possibly the most concentrated form of evil to ever exist. So we were bad, but they were worse. Flat out.
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these movies aren't meant to be masterpieces, these movies aren't meant to be defended. I would be like me trying to ustify why I like beef sandwiches from Arbys. there are somethings that are. No theory to it. They're summer blockbusters, just sit down and enjoy. Apparently you have a problem with that. Should every movie we see be a Citizen Kane or 2001? While I do appreciate those movies, it would be boring to watch only those type of movies. There has to be a balance in everything in life.
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The bombing of the two Japanese cities was a sort of bluff the US told the Japanese brass that the US had endless suplies of the A-bomb. From what I've read, Hirohito did not want to surrender even after Nagasaki and Hiroshima were toggled. He did it reluctantly after being talked into it by his generals. To the guy above me, you're right about the russian thing, but I think the US was looking at it from a communism/democracy p.o.v. Once the war in the Pacific was over the US helped to rebuild Japan, the Soviets would have taken their half of Japan and made it a communist hellhole/ coldwar hotspot, much like East and west germany. I think that is another good reason why we made the war end when it did. I don't know which was the worst fate for Japan, but at least they've been free since 1945 instead of 1991.
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I know the melodrama is a degraded art in the eyes of most contemporary cineastes, but let's not paint with too broad a brush here. It's not the sentimentality of films that's bad, it's how it's presented. For instance, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is one of the most potentially bathetic, sentimental films of recent memory. Yet it works, and it doesn't work despite its melodramatic elements, but because those elements are presented in an honest, and therefore convincing, fashion. Compare to a film like Pay it Forward which fails artistically, not because of its sentimental subject matter, but because it's fundamentally dishonest, shoving your face into emotions it hasn't quite earned. Some films grab me -- CTHD, Titanic, Armageddon -- and I think it's because these films present a fantasy, and no matter how nonsensical or banal or shallow these films may be in other respects, I believe these films are, at their core, emotionally true. No matter how many massive plot holes and incongruities exist in a film like Armageddon (and I was wincing through half the film because of the editing), beneath the technical aspects of the film, the emotional undercurrents ring true, at least for me. And, sure, there's no shortage of people who'll scoff at anything so un-macho as "human emotion," but this, more than anything else, is the engine that drives our greatest cinematic masterworks. It's a love thang, people! Feel the love!
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Mar 02, 2001 12:01:54 PM CST
i show no mercy has an obsession with vaginal problems
by looking-for-love
i read your first post, your regular bay-bashing blah-blah-blah. my other post are meant to immitate the stupidness of you posts._____________anyway, you Bay bashers are becoming more predictable each time around. people are getting tired of this "bay-sucks." It's getting old and it's not cool (or hip) no more.
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I hope Bay and Hollywood show respect to the men and women of that era.I think they will it would be inhuman not to.If anyone gets the chance, shake a veterans hand tell them thanks.
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I'm not going to get into the Bay debate except to say that the man was a very talented director of commercials, so if he screws "Pearl Harbor" up and turns it into a movie that is just an action flick for guys combined with romance and drama for the girls, I say go back to commercials. Most people don't want and are not expecting a popcorn flick this time around.***On the subject of Japanese concentration camps in the U.S., um...saying they were merely "detained" is like saying the Japanese-Americans (yes, they were Americans!) were waiting at the train station a little longer than necessary. The people who were put into the camps were humiliated and subjected to terrible living conditions that caused disease. Many of them lost their former homes and jobs and faced an amazing amounts of racism and harrassment before, during and after the war. You can argue that it was war, that people were worried for the safety of the country, but I ask you this: if that's true, then why didn't they do the same thing to Germans and Italians? I suggest you read a little more about the Japanese camps, especially Manzanar in California, before you brush it off as "detained".***Whoever said they never saw a hint of sex in a John Wayne movie before, take a closer look at some of his films, especially "The Searchers." It can be argued that Natalie Wood wasn't his niece, considering the relationship hinted at between her mother and John Wayne. And isn't it funny that The Duke represents everything American even though he never went to war or served in the army? I'm not dissing John Wayne, now...that would be grounds for disownment by my grandmother.
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Being the person who said they were detained, you are right. In all reality I never have read all that much on the camps we had for Japanese Americans. I know we weren't stuffing them in ovens, and what I said was partly in response to someones post comparing the Nazi's camps to ours. You are right though.
As far as not doing the same to the Germans and the Italians, intersting question? COuld have been racism. I am more prone to say it was due to that fact that the Japanese attacked us on our own soil. Not justifying it by any means, just speculating. -
1) Hans Zimmer - Can't wait to hear it.
2) ILM - Those Jap planes looked intense in the trailer.
Oh, Okay......
3) To see if Michael Bay grew up. Loved 'The Rock'. Hated 'Armageddon'. -
History is written by the victors. The "truth" can be hard to find, just check out Caeser's "Conquest of Gaul", almost pure fiction. Cultural genocide begins in the history books. Through the past we see the progression of how history is taught. It is a reflection on the buzz-words of the time. Ask your grandparents if they have ever heard of "Human Rights" in their childhood. History runs on waves like so many trends. The key to the past is to see through the propaganda of the time. Atrocities happen, but only recently have the victims gained something. Hiroshima begat 7-11 franchises and small business grants, the Holocaust begat the theocracy of Israel, yet it came too late for the Native Americans and the African slaves, who still have more irrational hatred pointed at them than Germans or even Russians, who killed twenty times as many as the Germans. But the Russians had nothing to gain, I guess. They got nothing but a frozen hole in the ground. Yep. History's written by the victors.
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I just thought that this was such a good comment, that it needed to be repeated. And since my own opinion has been officially deemed "shit" - this will be in the words of GuyMan:
For those Bay-lovers, know where (we) Bay-haters are coming from. People can justify claims that McDonald's is the best restaurant because they "push the right buttons" and hype up the salt and sugar disguising there's no real meat. Bay-haters don't think this makes great food, even though they serve a gazillion burgers. So, you can justify that ID4 and Armaggeden were "thrillrides" though the screenplay and direction are Mad-Lib, color-by number hack jobs, but you're missing the woes of the haters. Aren't movies more than dazzling visuals? Now, Bay's visual style is truly exceptional, but like the above poster said, that alone doesn't make a great director. And I know that sometimes people just want a Big Mac without worrying about taste, nutrition, etc., but give me a "RofLostArk" or "Jaws" or something thrilling yet fulfilling instead of the bowl of whipped creme fluff that are Con Air and The Rock.
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He has one half of a great visual style. Let me explain. The individual shots he comes up with do indeed look great; they're stark yet colorful. The problem is he doesn't let us take in the visuals, instead using machine-gun editing to obscure the action without really contributing to the visceral impact of the film. Even Roland Emmerich knows that sometimes it's a good idea to keep the camera in place for more than 3 seconds. Plus, even though this is also a fault of the scripts he gets, but his imagery is way too obvious. Patriotism is just fine, but look at the trailer- the little boys are playing baseball, girls in fairy costumes are dancing past a cut-out of Santa Claus ('cause it's December, see), and of course, flags everywhere. Expressing love of one's country is just fine, but do it in a way that's unconventional and unexpected! Convey the *ideas* that make the US great instead of just recycling Norman Rockwell paintings.
Someone pointed to Bay's commercial work as proof of his talent; the problem here is that a movie is one thing, a commercial another. In a commercial, it's okay to have lots of cuts because you only have 30 seconds, and using obvious imagery is okay because you're not supposed to be subtle when selling something. However an entire movie of quick cuts and cliches can grate on the nerves. I liked ARMAGEDDON okay when I first saw it, but I haven't been tempted to look at it since. When I saw parts of THE ROCK on TV, it looked nice, I was kind of impressed by what I saw of Ed Harris' performance (at the very least Bruckheimer can round up some good actors), but I really couldn't pay full attention. Bay has that effect on me. PEARL HARBOR might be good (there's only one screenwriter this time, so it already has a leg up on ARMAGEDDON), I might even see it. But part of me wonders if Bay wouldn't be happier making Navy commercials full-time. -
--And I loved it. Great characters, complex relationships, and a moving story, set against the very real and compelling backdrop of Pearl Harbor. A massive undertaking, and an incredibly well-crafted film that is well worth seeing.
NOTE:To all of the bitter and unhappy self-proclaimed critics who are judging the film before even seeing it: Get Over Yourselves. -
the US did EXACTLY THE SAME THING?!?!?!? can i ask a simple question, are you OUT OF YOUR MIND? listen man, i don't necessarily AGREE with the use of the bomb but to EVEN begin to think that the US acted as germany and japan is ludicrous. germany and japan were AGRESSORS. THEY initiated attacks and the killing of MILLIONS of jews for no reason other then genocide. the commander in chief was faced with a rather HARSH decision to make, IMHO, the HARDEST decision that any CIC EVER had to make, bomb japan, bomb germany or send in more troops? 1) bomb germany. too many allied troops local, would contaminate pretty much all of europe. 2) send in troops. the war would have gone on for YEARS and countless MILLIONS more would have died. well, not really since germany was mere months away from completing the bomb. had that happened, we would all be speaking german, that is, those of you that are white, blond hair and blue eyed. my family line would have been killed a while ago. 3) bomb japan, show our muscle to both japan and germany. japan, being an island was much more the logical target with fallout taken into consideration. was it a horrible thing to do? abso-fucking-lutely. do i think it was the hardest decision ANYONE on this god forsaken planet has EVER had to make? abso-fucking-lutely. do i think that, given how this world that we live in and the wonders that we are enjoying would have turned out for the worst had germany finished their bomb and that we made the lesser of two evils to end the conflict is the "right" thing? abso-fucking-lutely. was it HORRIBLE? yeah. was it the only option with the least amount of death and destruction? HELL YEAH. as bad as the nazi's? it ended and the world is a much better place for it. had the nazi's continued on their march, do you honestly think that we would be where we are? how can you POSSIBLY consider the two outcomes and label the hardest decision that has EVER been made as "bad as the nazi's"?
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Don't get me wrong, because I love you guys. I love your entertainment, I love your sports (I, a Canuck, hate fucking hockey and the moronic mentality that comes along with it) and I even lived in NYC for a year. Also, my girlfriend is American, as is one of the best friends I've got. What I don't appreciate, however, is the fact that you Yankee bastards act as if you marched into WW2 and single-handedly won the fucking thing. Furthermore, those of you who actually DO acknowledge the contributions of other countries, like Dennis, ALWAYS fail to mention Canada. Yah, I know. Let's laugh at the Canadian. Do they even have computers inside their igloos? He's probably just pissed that it snows year round up there. Right? Wrong. Canadians entered the war two years before you guys, in 1939, had MAJOR casualties as well (Dieppe, 1942, anyone?), and STILL we have yet to earn the respect of the United States. My grandfather was in the war from '39 to '45. He was shot to shit at Dieppe and survived. He fought on Juno beach on D-Day and survived. He is truly my hero, but will not accept the fact that anything he did overseas was heroic. "I wouldn't exactly call it heroic. You either fought or you died. Usually it was both." If it wasn't for Dieppe, there would have been no victory on D-Day. Don't trust me, though. Go and read about it. There's probably only like three of you guys who have even heard of the battle anyway. It's even been proven that 65% of you can't even locate Canada on a map! Canadians act as if their involvement in the war was an absolutely essential last resort. Americans act as if the Allies should feel blessed to have fought beside such an all-powerful force. Yes, Canada is like your little brother. We need you, we respect your power, but we are fed up with your bullshit attitude that America is the centre of the fucking world. I don't say "eh," for one. I wear a hat, not a "tuque" or whatever the hell it's called, and it is as warm where I live (Toronto) as it is most anywhere in the US. You made fools of yourselves in Vietnam. You are despised around the world (Try wearing an American flag on your bag to Egypt). Do you think it's because everyone else is stupid? Get off your fucking pedestals.
Sorry that I didn't even get to movies this time around, but I had to get this little rant off my chest. Franky 5, out.
p.s. Please don't take my obvious issues with America too seriously. After all, I'm just a Canadian :) -
Mar 02, 2001 2:35:53 PM CST
That hospital "effect" is already being used heavily in the trai
by superninja
Which also looks like a fine film. I like war epics, but I do hope Bay's storytelling style has matured, as others have mentioned. His gratuitous use of patriotism in Armageddon was retch-worthy: we get it already, don't do the baseball-bat-to-the-head direction. It doesn't mean I'm not proud to be an American, just not a zombie flag-waver. I think a lot of people misinterpret this as being anti-patriotic. But back to Pearl Harbor. Ben Affleck as action-boy does little for me, but that strapping Harnett kid! In the words of Lt. Col. Slade: WHOO-HA!
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What I expect to see from Bay/Bruckheimer is eye-candy, over the top, obvious, even cliche, visuals. And layer over that heavy, overstated music which will begin blasting its message before the action gets there, just to make sure you don't miss it. This will be well shot with interesting technique and style. I expect that rather that actually depicting the real life heroics of the man whom Cuba's character is based on, we will be given defiant shouting, gun firing, with pretty explosions in the backround and loud "EPIC" music over the top. You will hear loud sentimental music right before Ben Affleck shows up on screen in his return from the dead to see his girlfriend and find out she turned to his best friend when she thought he was dead. Maybe she just wasnt' good at being alone? (cough, cider house rules, cough) This style is good for 30 second commercials. I hate it in movies. Bay should go direct music videos.
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Mar 02, 2001 4:18:20 PM CST
Dalton Trumbo would punch Bay in the eye if he weren't a dead p
by johnny the boy
i am leif to attack Bay just for being Bay. I do want people to realize that this is a painful story,and i hope that Bay doesn't turn it into a retro Top Gun type of thing. Powerful war films have been made that did not celebrate guns and brutality. Do these films show this violence? Yex, they do not revel in it . These films include Saving Pvt. Ryan, Platoon, Full Metal JAcket, Paths of Glory, Spartacus and Johnny Got His Gun. Each a very different film, and each is a crystallized vision of the reality of warfare. There is truth in each of those films. They celebrate valor without celebrating violence. War is not fun. Most people in my generation have never experienced combat and I believe that is a good thing. Films that make war pretty are total lies. It is not pretty,. I t is not fun. It is violent and sometimes(god help us) necassary. bay will do a disservice to those who died, were interned or lived through this conflict if he turns it into a slick Bruckheimer money machine.
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Mar 02, 2001 5:01:43 PM CST
i hate arrogent flag waving yankees....but i still have to say T
by mooncake
i'm the 1st guy to lambast those f*cking arrogent yankee flag wavers. hell who doesn't? hahaha..but in one incident where uncle sam did it RIGHT was dropping those 2 sh*t bombs on Hiroshima & Nagasaki! f*ck that was the MOST HUMANE thing to do! millions of other asians in korea,china,phillipines,malayasia,singapore were suffering under the japanese! the japanese were responsible for the worst kind of war crimes in human history! those 2 f*cking A-bombs you dropped were like a gift from heaven, to save ASIA! so i'll say it one time only "GOD BLESS THE USA"!
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Will it be R? Which means they go for realism! Or will it be a cheesy PG-13? Which means its just gonna be a fake piece of crap. Come on! What is it?
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IMONSHO, ARMAGEDDON sucked ass. It was stupid and cartoony, much less intelligently done then DEEP IMPACT. Or, for that matter, the '50's epic WHEN WORLDS COLLIDE--and no, "popcorn movie" is not an excuse. INDIANA JONES is an example of a summer movie done *right.* However, THE ROCK had it's moments and I hear that BAD BOYS wasn't too shabby (still gotta rent that one). From what little I've seen of this thing, it looks like B&B might be trying to graduate to the filmmaking big leagues of Speilburg, (pre-PHANTOM MENACE) Lucas, Cameron and Ridley Scott. I say more power to him, if that's true--I'm all for movie makers trying to improve their mastery of the craft. Anything to stanch to flow of sewage from Hollywood. I'm willing to give him a chance this summer, but if it turns out to be the Irwin Allen-esque craptacular that some on this board are expecting--never again. As for I_show_no_mercy, just ignore him--he's your standard-issue usenet-type troll. "These two niggers?" "Vaginal flow?" Whatever. He's probably 12, and playing around on his dad's iMac. See what eminem has done to this country?
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Having never even seen the trailer for PH, I'll reserve judgment until it opens, even if it is a Michael Bay film. As to the discussion about 12/7/41 and the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, perhaps I can muddy the waters some more. (1) While our government is notorious for performing outrageous acts on both domestic and foreign citizenry, there is no evidence that Roosevelt knew of the Japanese plan to attack Pearl Harbor, subsequently allowing it to happen and swinging public sentiment towards war. (2) The atomic bombings were performed after much soul searching by our top brass, but hindsight still begs for some answers. For instance, some considered testing the bombs on an uninhabited spot with Japanese officials present, the better to impress upon them the power that we could unleash on them. This was discarded, out of concern that the test might fail, and we would look foolish(!). The civilian sites were chosen largely because many Japanese cities, by that time, had suffered tremendous damage in the fire raids, and the military wanted to see what this new weapon would do to an untouched city. It is also probable that Truman wanted to impress upon the Russians the willingness of our country to do whatever it would take to forestall Communist aggression in the post-war world. And yes, while the bombings did indeed spare many lives (on both sides) by cutting short what would have been a large and destructive invasion (American soldiers were ready to wipe out anything in their path), their still remains a difficult question: was it really necessary to drop the second bomb on Nagasaki? For myself, I'm glad the war ended when it did: my father was a pilot on a B-25, training for the invasion when the war ended. I'm here because he, and millions of others like him, were there when this country needed him. And if he were here now, I think he'd say that revisionism is unnecessary, that rabid jingoism is not patriotism, and that any filmmaker willing to take on such a turning point in the life of this country had better treat it with the respect and professionalism it deserves. Michael Bay, the ball is in your court, and I will be there to see for myself.
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That is based on a true story now how close they are to actual history is another question all together but I watched a documentary on this quite a while back I think it was on A&E but I am not sure !
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I will say this about Russia they did help when the war but and I respect feel for the russian people that went threough what the went but what germany did to the russian was small compared to what Stalin did to the mhe killed millions and one more thing people need to relize is that Germany had a little help starting WWII and thats from Stalin making a pack with Hitler to divide up Poland once it was conquered so I feel for the russian people nut not to much because one of those people should have picked up a gun and shot Stalin right in the head !
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. . .considering the garbage you spew on these boards. Try not using words like "nigger" next time and maybe I'll show you a little more respect. Until then, you are in my opinion just another stupid troll. Grow the hell up, please.
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. . .but yes, because of the words you use, which insult me as a Black man. And since when did "gay" become a prejorative? Oh hell, never mind. I'm arguing with a child. I come here to talk about movies, not to waste time fighting with the I.Q. 9 set. Forget about it.
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I *never* said that the Japanese and the Nazis and Italy were *not* evil. I am *not* a dude. I am *not* an idiot. Please refrain from name calling. The Japanese attacked the Aluetian Islands in Alaska. I *did not* saw that the US had an anti-Jewish conspiracy going on during the war. They *did* know what was going on though. I *did not* say that the Americans entered the war at the end I said within the last year or year and a half. I *did not* say that the Americans weren't *any* help during the war, don't be ridiculous. Simple fact is that the Russian's pushed the German's back all the way from Stalingrad and all the way to Berlin and captured Berlin and all the while defending their country from the Japanese. As to the concentration camps for the Jap.-Amer. wrongful imprisonment is just wrong.
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Quite Frankly, the imperialistic japanese military regime of WWII was a rabid dog that had to be put down. Am I being cruel? Maybe. It is never good when anybody dies, especially civilians, but obviously no country seemed to care to much about that in WWII, V2's from Germany, Incindiary raids from the Brits and nukes from the Americans. The guy who said he hates flag waving yankees (blah blah blah) was right ending the war when we did saved millions of lives asian and american, civilian and military. The pacific war had been raging for 4 years. It had to end. Put yourself in Truman's shoes. The bomb saved more lives than it took. Its legacy may be terrible, but nobody was thinking about that. They couldn't afford to.
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. . ."Busta Rhymes" is my fave and he's always using that word to describe himself and his homez (though they tend to pronounce it "niggaz"). In that sense it has a different meaning. In the skinhead sense "nigger" it refers specificlly to those they hate--African Americans--but I've also heard Black people here in the US use it to describe other black people that THEY hate, such as gang members who sell drugs and poison their own communities. Well, Malcolm X wasn't afriad of a word, neither should I be. Sorry for the flame, it was unwarranted in this case. Ningunas sensaciones duras?
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...continues?! I hope not! As a History teacher, I get angry when history textbooks have inaccurate or totally false statements about historical events. We deserve the whole truth and nothing but the truth. It will be very disturbing to see this movie if it tries to rewrite history with the false claim that the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was a surprise attack when our government knew about it way in advance and we had radar data showing the Japanese planes approaching Pearl Harbor. Read "Pearl Harbor Attack No Surprise", "December 7, 1941 . . . a Day of Deceit" and "The Myths of Pearl Harbor" at the following links for more info: [http://ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p119_Stolley.html], [http://www.independent.org/tii/news/001207Stinnett.html], [http://metalab.unc.edu/pha/myths/index.html], [http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/myths/]. This event in history is similar to how the U.S. government lied to their citizens in order to enter the Vietnam War. Read "30-Year Anniversary: Tonkin Gulf Lie Launched Vietnam War" at the following link for more info: [http://www.fair.org/media-beat/940727.html]. May 25, 2001 will be a day that will live in infamy if we continue to lie to the public and the world about Pearl Harbor and other historical events. It would be a great disservice to the memories of all the men, women and children who died around the world during WWII. We should make every effort to boycott this film if it continues to perpetrate the lie.
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